The Sun.
London, England, 1870-03-12 00:00:00

THE IRISH LAND BILL.

Mr. W. H. GREGORY then resumed the debate on this
Bill. He was received with cheers. He declared himself
favourable to the bill, on the ground that if hon. mem-
bers went back to Ireland at the end of the session
without having passed any measure of redress, they
would find a state of things still more intole-
rable than at present. If in accepting the
main principle of the bill, which, in his opinion,
was giving security to the tenant, he hoped he
should not lay himself open to the imputation of wanting
to cavil and find fault if in committee he should objecct to
some of the clauses of the bill, for the right hon gentle-
man at the head of the Government had invited criticism
from both sides of the House. He thought that in a
scheme of the nature of the present bill there ought to be
every precaution taken to ondeavour to put down crime in
every manner possible, • and that with respect to eviction
it would be a wise provision if it was made for any serious
crime not political. He was sure that would be one of
the best means of eradicating a great part of the crime

which was so prevalent in Ireland. He knew a case of
where sheepstealing had been very prevalent, and steps
were taken to discover the perpetrator of the crime. He
was discovered and evicted, and the result was that
flocks became safe and no more sheap steal-
ing was heard of in that part of the country.
But having got rid of the sheepstealer, he did
not see that the person who had bad his flocks pillaged
should be called upon to ray the man who had stolen his
sheep for disturbance of occupation. Another important
proposition that ought to receive gi eat consideration and
that was with regard to grazing farms. (Hear, hear.) He
thought it would be a very Rise proviso if it were set
forth that mere grazing farms should not come
under the operation of the bill. You ought
not to be called upon to give compensation to
a man who used his land me; sly for grazing purposes
because he could drive his oxen from the land, and a I the
the money he received would be just so much money
readily placed iu his pocket. He could not see
that a case such as that .vas une that entitled

the grazier to any compensation. The bill
brought forward by the right hon. gentleman, however,
was one that he accepted generally, but he could not too
strongly urge upon him the necessity c•f putting some
limit to the question of rents, otherwise he was certain the
whole of the rights of the tenant would be swallowed
up. He looked with the greatest confidence on the Ulster
principle, as where it was recognised and carried out,
there perpetual improvement was going on, there
great contentment prevailed ; the landlord was
sure of his rent, and the tenantry, as a
rule, were industrious, frugal, and well-to-do people.
If that system produced such beneficial results, he
for one could not see why it should not be ex-

tended to the whole of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) The
desire of the Government in bringing forward the present
bill appeared to be to give continuity, if not perpetuity, of
tenure ; but if they succeeded in their efforts in perfecting
a bill which should be acceptable to the great majority
of the people of Ireland, they would do that
which would render coercion bills, and repressive mea-
sures unnecessary. (Hear, hear.) There was, however,
another point that was very unfortunate, and
that was with respect to the purchase of land,
and he thought it would l e a very wise
provision if the time and mode of enabling the tenant to
purchase his farm was set at 35 years at 5 per cent. instead
of 22 years at 10s. per cent.
Lord ELcno said the question should be looked at from
a landlords as well as a tenant's point of view. There
were principles in the bill affecting English and Scotch, as
well as Irish landlords. It was a novel principle in this
House to forbid contracts to be entered into, and yet to
regulate the length of leases and the amount of rent. The
inferior state of Scotland in regard to agriculture
had grown up under what was known as nineteen years'
leases. He should like to know what Scotch members
would do in committee with regard to the extraordinary
propositions of the bill in this respect. Compensation for
disturbances was another objectionable feature in the
principle of the bill, and was as novel as the other princi-
ple to which he had pointed. In the bill under discussion
there were certain proposals with respect to compensation,
but he should like to know where these compensations Were
to stop. (Hear.) There had been a great deal of distur-
bance lately occasioned by the Secretary of State for War
with respect to officers—(hear, hear)—he did not appear
to give them seven years' oompensation. In order that
he might hand over to the Chancellor of the Exchequer
his quota of the £5,000,000 surplus which that right hon,
gentleman expected to have as a surplus, what did he
do ? He, by a stroke of the pen, struck off
12,000 men, and that too at a time when there was great
destitution prevalent. It was proposed to give compen-
sation for disturbance in one case ; why not in the other?
He could not understand why it should be given to one
and not to the other, unless it was that the soldier was
tha shootee and the tenant the shooter. He had sent the
bill, which he believed to be the product of sentiment and
saltpetre. to a person well versed in the matters it treated
of in Scotland, and the opinion that ho had received
upon it was, that as it legislated for the future, it was
a violation of property, of the rights of the public, and
the principles of free trade, and that if passed it
would sow disturbance broadcast over the land. The
machinery for its working would prove inadequate, and in
a few years the courts would be blocked up with business,
and all would end in confusion. One of the great things to
do was to teach the Irishman the value of a legal obligation;
and when the work was done no good would really be
effected. He approved of the bill as a whole,
but there were certain portions of it which
he should use his utmost to get altered and amendedg
lie quoted former speeches of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, saying he would be no party to doing anything
in Ireland which he would not do in England. He then
referred to an agitation getting up in this country at the
present time, having for its object a speedy
acquirement of land by those who had it not
now, and he appealed to the right hon. gentleman at tl
head of the Government to use his undoubted influence
with the populace in stamping out such pestilent stuff.
and producing a popular conviction that there were cer-
tain rules with regard to property that must be main-
tained.

Sir C. O'LOGIILEN was of opinion that, compared with all
the other land bills which had been submitted to Parlia-
ment, the present was the most s!atesmanlike and effectual.
Mr. CHAPLIN expressed himself strongly against the
system of small holdings, as tending to increase the existing
poverty and distress in Ireland ; and he attributed all the
disorganised state of affairs which now prevailed in that
country to the vacillating, ill-fated, and deplorable policy of
her Majesty's Government.