The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-17 00:00:00

contained in the Bill as it originally stood. He did not
wish to cast the least reflection on the distinguished in-
dividuals in question, as he felt it a high honour to have
been connected in office with the Government under
which such great men had achieved their brilliant vie-
tori, s; still he was bound to act in the way he now
proposed.
Lord BROUGHAM said he had not spoken on the
previous occasion, when the Bill was discussed, but since
then he had carefully considered the question, and be
must on the present occasion vote against the amend-
inept which had been proposed. As he understood the
question, the real matter was the propriety of granting,
sufficient sums to the distinguished individuals in slues;
tion, in order to enable them to maintain with dignity
the rank of peerage which had been conferred on thetu•
Much as had been said on the other side, this was the
real point they should keep in view, and the wording
the preamble of the Bill showed that such
was the original intention of its introductio°,i
He rrgued, that the consequence of this doctrine would
be, that where a peerage was conferred on a distin-
guish( d military officer, that House would make inquiry
into his private fortune. He did not see what the Goci
vernment had to do with the East India Company Ole.
their grants ; for although he admitted that the"
grants could not pass without the sanction of Parliai
ment, still that did not make their money the money of
the Government, or of the public ; the money if 11f
bestowed in that way would remain in the treasury °
the Corporation, and never would pass into the coffers
of the Exchequer. Ile said it was difficult to limit tlO
reward for military services. Yet it might be asked, sa!:
ther 5,C00/. was not enough for Lord Hardinge ? but ha
mist: eted, that he had before this, seen 2,000/. and re
ribbons given to men for services which, in after year,
if their fame ever should pass into after year.'
would make men raise their hands in wonder, tb°
so illiberal a reward had been bestowed on the brilliant
actions of Sir Henry Hardin ee. As for the constier
tional question, he agreed with the Noble Lord (Lana'
dowse) that it would be better far that the privileges °A
the people's representatives should be left unquestioli
by them, and uninterfered with. But he contended, ,%;
the privileges of their Iscrdships' House, that their
n
Lordships had a right to exercise their judgment on the
Bills sent up from the House of Commons, and were not
reject
to swallow either the whole Bill untouched, or to re2f
it altogether. The letter from the Noble Lady, "Inca
had been introduced by the Noble Earl, affecting it,
powerful as it was, had just an opposite effect on hi
mir:d, from that which it seemed to have produced on the
Noble Earl's. Perhaps the letter might have been
petted from the grand-daughter of Lord Camden, and
the daughter of the late Marquis, but he contended that
from a sense of justice to Lord Hardinge, stimulated by
the generous and disinterested conduct of the N°l)e
Lady whose letter had been alluded to, their Lordsbil),
ought to deal liberally in this case.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he had been in
the Government when this Bill was introduced into It,
House, and, therefore, he begged to submit a few °d,
servations to their Lordships. He begged their Lriev,
ships to recollect that it was a money Bill sent up fry
the Commons, proposing a grant made under a stens";
order of that House, and founded upon a message f,r
the Crown. He begged his Noble and Learned Fried
(Lord Brougham) to remark the exactness of the w°, ih
of the message, which very words had been engrossenee
the preamble of the Bill. Her Majesty stated that soPft
desired to make provision for Lord Hardinge, in still ie
of the dignity which had been conferred on him, an ma
consideration of his great services. He said the 11°,1,-e
of Commons had passed this Bill at the suggestion of Le,
Crown. Now this House had the same Bill
fore it. It was an understanding between the t"ot
Houses that their Lordships' House should
alter a money Bill, yet this House proceeded to do s° 'a
but he defied the Noble and Learned Lord to prod°e c
one instance of thus increasing a grant after it had COt
from the other House. The consequence would be tSob
the Bill would be lost. He acknowledged the Ile
merit of the Noble Lord's services in the field, and oe
Majesty had conferred the dignity of the peerage lir
him, a reward which had been received with apPr° ed
tion by the country. He said the Noble and Learnih
Lord asked for instances, and he could give him 00esle
which the poverty of a Noble Lord was made these,o
basis of provision. He would not give the 119 l
Another case he recollected, in which it was suPr bat
that the Peer had sufficient to support his dignirP
it was found afterwards that he had not, and prcrsiser
was made for him on that accoant. He would not rel.des
tion the name. Ho begged their Lordships to consire
what would be the effect of leaving this particular rule
to: caprice or to chance what effect it w° ht
have on the mind of military men who oer,
have conferred on them this expensive b°llo-001,
It appeared that the sum of 5,0001. a-year, and 2J
a-year were to be granted to Lord Hardinge and far
Gough, respectively, by the East India Company,
the purpose of maintaining the dignity of their Poel Fri
in that House. He quite agreed with his Noble -Trill co
the late President of the Board of Control, that 'hest
grants were to be made out of the funds of the ait
India Company, with the consent of her Majesty, 64,11 be.
was necessary for her Majesty to give her consen; pre'
fore any such grant could become valid. It was,t","ssa
„
fore, evident that it was only as servants of the of
that Ministers could take any notice of the ruakein'ser
the grant, but it was equally evident that as such
vents they could not do otherwise than take notice 2„a
He had advised her Majesty to give her consent'
Act
such being the case, they had agreed to bririg,Ain ran JO
of Parliament for that purpose, and he wow,. eeinesese
their Lordships that in the event or the 5111 s'7AO
altered in that House, there was a possibility that fed,
annuities might be lost altogether ; and he intrea for
therefore, their Lordships, for the sake of the aro/alio
the sake of the officers, and for the sake of their faTelose
—for it should be remembered that the position of woe
families depended upon their vote that night— to con
the decision at which the other House had arrived• ato
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE felt that be lii/e,
justify himself for this votes which he was about to stele
for he had, he must confess, changed his principles. the
had certainly voted in opposition to the ennui*. vsp
other night, but he had done so without sufficient °or
deration, and without once reading the Bill which cse,
tamed the clause, which it was now desirable to eAr"
so
and which his; Noble Friend (Lord Monteagle)
strongly inveighed against. It now appeared 03 03
that this grant must have the consent of the Crown ,i; re'
there was the further consideration that arose with ar
gard to the position of the Government, and the decoct
stance still more important as regarded this debate ;'the
these grants were not made so
much as rewards faille
services which had been rendered as to enable
os;
Noble persons en whom they were conferred to atiPeocl
the dignity of the Peerages which had been best`it to
upon them. It should be observed that the grant
of
Lord Hardinge was limited to his own life and t,usegh
his two succeeding heirs male, while that of Lord iliot
was limited to his own life alone. The Noble and 00j
Duke on the cross-benches had rightly reminded tbCo
that as it was the duty and the privilege of the Ilons(j1eill
Commons to make grants of public money, if this dor
were altered at all the annuities might be altoge!,,d,
lost to the noble persons for whom they were inters
and should, therefore, vote with his Noble Friend. se-
The Earl of GALLOWAY was surprised at the
03,
tuperation of a Noble Lord connected with Ireliihed
not now in his place, the other night, although he,ohje
abstained from moving the amendment. Like the
Marquis, he had come down the other day ignoranit
che
the clause which regulated these annuities, and
_siis
anxious to justify himself from the charge of ine°"itee
tency. But seeing that not only the Noble Duke `..,00
Duke of Wellington), who had spoken from the T' of
benches, but that other members of the Government, of
which he was a member, and also several members it
the present Government were induced to alter t erf
mode of proceeding, be felt that, though just eontrsiio
to the vote which he had previously given, he shags with the Noble Marquis (the Marquis of 1.4-
downe) on the present occasion.
The Earl of WICKLOW quite agreed with the °of
Marquis, the Postmaster-General (the Marquis Os
Clanricarde), that this vote ought to be sustained.ee
could not forget that the Noble Lord, from wb°l33 t
proposition had originally emanated, had refrained 4,001
putting the amendment himself, but had expressed a the
sire that some other Noble Lord of greater weight to
the
House would put it to the House. Then up junoPsioes
Noble Duke on the cross benches (the Duke of noes
mond), and put the vote to the House, and thus setc:: on
the Noble Baron's vote. Truly he believed that n
nu_et
was more surprised at the effect of his own eloque ut.o
than was the Noble Baron himself ; nor any one,,iiPt,
believed now, that more regretted it. Seeing, then, !"bc
change of parties in the country, and the change in the
Ministry, and the possibility which existed, that in be
event of their not acceding to the proposition oft v
thoughto
tbNt
hs
be endangered,
Noble
eb
votenl
nedoabnlwegt Marquis
ehpwri
persons
us (Lansdowne),,ol
would seeb be
should
raoduwhomgdimprudenteen
certainly
theyat
t hiahnanel td. theannuitiesoigemtrohepeiornli
o intendedr p o ts
t aio r
o gorit
0:
to the decision which had been taken on thteivecefnlooir}lngsae‘deb°e•ret,°;
casion, and he called on them to support the Bill in
original form.l
Of
After a few words of explanation from the Marquis -
LANSDOWNE,
The Duke of RICHMOND said he must deny tb°
imputation that he had ever said anything reflecting
the character of Lord Hardinge. What he stated wedthat Government should take care to prevent a dieitee
command in India in future, and to take care that
toe
Governor• General should not be second in completes
He must say in taking the course he did on the Ares
or
Bill, he was not in the least degree actuated by part,'
political considerations.—(Hear, hear.)
e eo
The Earl of GALLOWAY explained, that he had
intention of attributing any such motives to the N°
Duke (the Duke of Richmond).
The gallery was then cleared for a division, when there
appeared—
For the amendment (restoring the Bill) 47
Against it lB

Majority for the Government ....... 29
The report was then brought up and received. use
Several Bills were advanced a stage, and the .11°
adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 16.
MINISTERIAL POLICY.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that he took the libertl,4
few evenings ago to put a question to the Noble Lord
to the principles upon which the Government was °do
conducted. That question had excited irritation in tie
Noble Lord's mind, but it was a question which &a,
country would require to have answered. Let Oleg
look at the state of the House at present. N°boo
knew where to sit.—(Laughter.) Sitting on bad
same side with the Noble Lord were those wh° thii
hitherto been his bitterest enemies. The reason 0' -
was, as he understood, that they had been informed t"
none but the extremes would be dissatisfied.
required explanation. Every Prime Minister in encle4
into office had stated the principles on which ho WO'