The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-21 00:00:00

for continuing the present duties for one month frem the tim
of their expiration, and resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.
The resolutions having been put,
Mr. GOULBURN said, lie agreed with the Noble Lord
that this subject was one of the greatest importance in a com-
mercial, political, and moral sense, and he thought he
should best advance a fair discussion of the question
by forbearing to enter into any debate until a
future opportunity. He. should, therefore, confine
himself to asking the Noble Lord one question with respect to
a part of his statement, and upon which he did not correctly
understand him. The Noble Lord stated that with respect to
the colonial trade he would seek for an Act of Parliament to
empower the several colonies to repeal such portions of the
discriminating duty at present existing in those colonies
with regard to the produce of fore:gn countries and
the colonies. Ile did not understand whethor it was
the Noble Lord's intention still further to give extensiOn to the
colonial trade by promoting an intercourse in the produce of
those colenies with foreign countries, or whether it would be
Confined to the ships of this country. This was an im-
portant point, and lie should therefore wish to know the ins
tention of the Noble Lord with respect to it.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, what he proposed to do was td
empower her Majesty to give her assent to those Acts of the
Colonial Governments with respect to the discriminating
duties. He did not in any respect propose to alter the naviga-
tion laws now subsisting. Ile merely proposed to take the
power he had mentioned.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that he and the friends around
him, proposed to give their support to the Noble Lord, to the
plan which he had so ably and perspicuously laid down on the
whole, but there were two points on which they could not do ao.
They would not consent to the removal of the protection which(
the colonies had hitherto enjoyed. True to the principles
upon which they had acted on former eecasions, his friends
around him were not disposed to consent to the admission of
slave-grown sugar on the same conditions as the produce of
free labour. They were determined, if possible to sectrre
to the East and West Indian colonial proprietors the pro-
tection which they had hitherto enjoyed.—(Hear, hear.)
His Noble Friend had said that, in his opinion, the agricultural
interest, having lost their protect ion, it ought tobe a consolation to
thorn that they would have an opportunity.of obtaining their sugar
cheap. Now, he could tell his Noble Friend that it would be no
consolation to them, that having lost their own protection they
would have an opportunity of robbing the East and West India.
interest of their protection.—( Hear, hear. ) A statement had
been made to the House to the effect that therewould be a great
falling off in the supply of sugar from the colonies, but he
thought his Noble Friend had understated the quantity
of sugar that might be expected to be derived from
the East and West Indies for the years 1846-47.
His Noble Friend had stated the amount to he expected
from the Mauritius at no more than 50,000 tens, but from the
best information he could collect upon the subject he could say
that 60,000 tons would be the produce of the year. The Noble
Lord had stated the produce of,the East Indies at no more than
80,000, hut he had every reason to believe that the produce of
the year would be 100,000 tons for Bengal alone, exclusive of
the sugar that might be expected from Madras. which was
estimated at 60,000 tons.— ( Hear, hear.) On these grounds
lie begged to intimate that lie and his party were decidedly
opposed to the proposed change, and when his Noble Friend
moved his resolution it was his intention to propose an amend.
ment.—(Hear, hear. )
Mr. G. BERKELEY said he should not be prepared to sup-
port the Government unless they made some arrangement for
supplying the colonies with labour. He for one was not averse
to the colonies entering into competition with the foreigner,
but first let them be placed in the position of the foreigner
with regard to the supply of labour.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL made an observation which did
not reach the gallery.
Mr. G. BERKELEY continued—Well then, if the Noble
Lord was prepared to do his best for supplying the colonies with
labour, he should have no difficulty in supporting the proposed
change.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. MOFFA'I'T said he wished, with the permission of the
Committee, to ask the Noble Lord three questions. First,
whether it was his intention to keep up the difference between
Muscovado and elayed sugar. Secondly, whether he intended
to keep up the existing duty on refined sugar ; and thirdly,
whether he intruded to make any change in respect of double
refined sugars.—( Hear. hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, with
regard to the first question, he thought the distinction ought
not to be kept up, but until he had obtained further informa-
tion on the subject he could not promise a change. With re-
gard to the second question, it was intended to keep up the
duty ; but with regard to the third, the same change would be
extended to double refined as was pronosed to be applied to
other sugars.—( Hear, hear.) kte•
Mr. P. M. STEWART urged upon the Government that
necessity of doing away with the excise duty on rum altoge-
ther. A duty of Is. would still keep it out of Scotland and.
Ireland, and it would depend upon the manner in which the
Noble Lord dealt with this article whether those who were in-
terested in the colonies would go along with him in his change
or not.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. BERNAL said he had never been able to learn whether
the law imposed any restrictions on the use of sugar in
breweries ; and he would, therefore, now give notice of his in-
tention to enter upon this subject on some future occasion.
Mr. BERKELEY regretted that the Noble Lord had not
the power to make free trade more palatable to him.
Mr. EW ART would have preferred a more speedy settle-
ment of this question than that proposed by the Noble Lord.
Ile did not see why any distinction should have been imposed
on the importation of molasses. Ile hoped to see the time
when the people of this country would be in the enjoyment of
cheap sugar, and cheap food of every kind.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied to
the remarks of Mr. Stewart. Ile said that the tax on the im-
portation of rum was not imposed merely for the sake of re-
venue ; it was imposed principally with the view of admitting
rum and British spirits to be consumed nn the same terms.
In reply to Mr. HOPE,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the yearly contracts for
wine, to which he had alluded in his explanation, would be
sanctioned in Asia, Africa, and everywhere else.
Mr. BAILEY regretted that the settlement of this great
question hail been delayed until so late a period of the session,
when it was well known that many of the members had left
London.

111 r. HUME would rather see the House sit much longer
than usual than see the settlement of a question of such vast.
importance delayed a day longer. He hoped that the proposals
of the Noble Lord would be adopted by the House, but ho at
the same time must say that the laws at present existing as to
the use of sugar in breweries were most absurd, and he hoped
that the Noble Lord would embody a reform on that subject in
his present comprehensive plan. He entirely approved of the
Noble Lord's intention to abolish, if possible, the anomaly at
present existing as to sanctioning the admission of some slave
and free produce, whilst on that of sugar there were differential
or protective duties, which, as had been truly said, did not.
benefit the country. When the question of the sugar duties had
been settled to the satisfaction of the Noble Lord, he (Mr.
Hume) considered that this session might terminate, leaving an
impression on the minds of the House that it was the greatest
session within their memory.
Mr. HENLEY condemned the propcsal of the Noble Lords'
plan as a most unjust one, and said that if it was carried out we
should have free-trade not only in corn but in everything
else:—( Laughter.)

„
Mr. RICARDO hoped that the equalisation of the sugar
duties would not be delayed for five years, and if the Noble
Lord persisted in proposing the resolutions as they at present
stood, he should feel it his duty on Friday next to propose an
amendment to limit the period of equalisation.
Mr. \VAKLEY replied to some remarks that had fallen
from the Noble Lord, the member for Lynn ( Lord G. Ben-
tinck) as to protection, and contended that the principle of
protection on which that Noble Lord had se eloquently dwelt,
had led to the most ruinous consequences. He had not for-
gotten the observations which had been made a few years since
in that House, upon the introduction of the Hiil Coolies into
the West Indies. The House should pause before they passed
his measure; a considerable quantity of labourers were to be
introduced into the \Vest Indies, to break down the claims of
hose unfortunate beings who were now employed
there. Ile hoped, therefore, that the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government would recon-
sider this part of his proposition, and protect these
unfortunate labourers from the merciless, cold-bloodedl specu-
lators who traded in human flesh, and who kidnapped the un-
fortunate Hill Coolies for the purpose of importing them into,
the West Indies, in order to beat down the prices of the libe-
rated negroes. The House would not do its duty if they did
not oppose this part of the project.
Sir 11. INGLIS said that he must remind the House that
they were not pledged at all to the merits of the measure, but
at a future time they would express their opinions on the
subject,
Sir DE LACY EVANS eontended that the term ” un-
fortunate" applied to the West Indian labourers by the Hon.
Member for Finsbury was not appropriate, for they were the
best paid of any class of workmen in the world. They were
so well off indeed that they could not be got to work. He
thought that the Noble Lord had acted wisely in limiting the
term of equalisation of duties to five years.
Member_
oofd
Lord G. BENTINCK, in answer to the
- et hde,
for Finsbury, said, that the Noble Lord at
Government had no sympathy whatever wit illiilecoohn.
aldebdl
o
merciless, or cruel speculators and the
be amply protected.
labourers who would be
int.arloi."Sd into the West Indies would
fIAPMAN slid, that the Hill Coolies who had been
formerly imported into the West Indies, had gone back to
their native country with money in their pockets, and in every
other respect they were both comfortable and I. appy.
Sir W. JAMES wished to know whether the Noble Lord
at the head of the Government was prepared to lay upon
the table of the House any papers tending to show that one
shilling was a proper sum to be Considered as a differential
duty between free and slave-grown sugar.
Lord SANDON wished for some further information on the
question of slave-grown sugar, before he could pronounce an
opinion upon the proposed measure. From what he had heard,
and what he at present knew of the subject, ha thought the
proposition was not at all calculated either to improve the
revenue, or to benefit the consumer or the grower.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER said, with
reference to laying on the table of the House any return as to
the amount of differential duties, he did not think he could by
any returns afford any information sufficiently explicit for the
Hon. Member (Sir W. Janes). The Hon. Member also made
some remarks in answer to Lord Sandon, the purport of which
did not reach the gallery.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK thought that higher protec-
tion should be afforded to the West Indian colonies.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was not the intention of Govern-
ment to allow any labourers to be imported into the West Indian
colonies from any part either in Africa or Asia, where there
were not Br',tish settlements. This precaution had been
adopted by her Majesty's Government, in order to prevent a
revival in any degree of the slave trade. He was not inclined
to draw the distinction between slave and free-grown sugar.
The CHAIRMAN then put the resolution, which was carried,
and ordered to be reported on Wednesday next.
The House then resumed.
SUPPLY.

Mr. WARD then moved that the House go into a Corn.
mittee of Supply.
Mr. WILLIAMS rose to draw the attention of the House
to the practice of flogging sailors, and to the manner in which
courts-martial are constituted in the British navy. There
was no appeal from the judgment of a court-mar-
tial. In the army there was complete protection
against violence. The civilian, also, had every pro-
tection. He might appeal to the mercy of the Crown.
But for the poor sailor there was nu appeal either for mercy or
against an unjust judgment, and he felt quite sure that if
these circumstances were generally known the country would
not permit such hardships to be inflicted upon a body to whom
they peculiarly looked for protection. The system of flogging
in the navy was, he considered, most dangerous, and which, if
it were not altered, might bring serious consequ2nces upon the
country. Formerly any commander could tie up a man and
inflict any punishment it was his will and pleasure to
do. But what was the present system with regard
to this infamous punishment—the most degrading
that could he suffered by any man—and which had
broken the hearts of men. Why, under the present system
the lashes were conned to forty-eight, which he was assured
was equal to two hundred in the army. Many naval officers
said more, and common sense points out that such must be
the case. In the army the lashes were given with a.small
and very often by a drummer boy ; but it was otherwise in
the navy ; the punishment was inflicted with
athtehilokai„heraina;
and by the stoutest man in the ship,
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