The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-23 00:00:00

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ber for Bucks in thinking that Government were not at
all borne out in their course by the precedents which had
been quoted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex-
plained that his misapprehension had been as to the
secret character of the Committee. All he had origi-

tally intended, and all he wank(' now was, that the Coin
mittee should have the power, when necessary, of sup•

pressing evidence. -
In answer to Mr. NEWDEG ATE,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the Committee would follow the course adopted by that
of 1828.
Mr. HUME hoped that the Committee would be
properly appointed, and would not be composed princi-
pally of men who were hardened in large estimates.—
(Laughter.) He trusted that the Committee would do
its duty, and that the House would agree to no more
votes for the; army or navy until it (the Committee)
had made its report. There was no point on which the
country had a stronger opinion than the necessity of re-
ducing our naval and military expenses.
Sir It. PEEL said that the Hon. Member for Bucks
had misunderstood what had fallen from him (Sir ).t.
_ _

Peel) on the previous evening if he thought he lied con-
tended that the course now proposed was sanctioned by
that which had been previously taken. Ilis chief object
in rising on the previous day had been to inquire
whether precedents would justify the appointment of a
Secret Committee.—(Hear, hear.) His recollection was
at variance with that of the Noble Lord opposite. In
the former Committee, although it had exercised a
proper discretion as to withholding certain portions of
the evidence, still it was only a Select not a Secret
Committee. Sometimes Committees had been ap-
pointed by ballet, but those of 1797 and 1807
had been appointed by nomination. He believed
he was right in affirming that all the Committees
which had been mentioned were Select and not Secret
Committees. Now, although be should not oppose this
Committee, he was bound to say that he was perfectly
ready to give his opinion on the estimates, should they
be brought forward in the usual form, and he was sure
that the Noble Lord himself would acknowledge that no
Select Committee could discharge the functions of the
executive with the force or quickness which the public
exigencies required.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that
this Committee was not to be looked upon as redeeming
the Executive from any portion of its responsibility.
He was prepared to consider the estimates as prepared
on the responsibility of Government. He knew, from
recent experience, that the imputations thrown upon the
Executive of a desire to increase the estimates was one
entirely unfounded. He believed it was the interest and
desire of Governments generally to bring down the esti-
mates as low as possible. The impression that they
were kept up for the purposes of patronage, of extended
military appointments, of gratifying supporters by
having commissions to give away—he believed that all
impressions on that head were utterly erroneous, and
that it was decidedly for the interest of an administra-
tion, looking at its stability, that the estimates should
be as low as they could be made.—(Hear, hear.)
He must say that, after the panic which had
prevailed in this country, after the alarm which had
pervaded large classes of the community, he was glad to
See that both had visibly abated. He confessed that he
had been under some apprehension that Government
would be unduly influenced by that alarm, and was
rather relieved to find that no increase was proposed in
the estimates. He had read the letter of a Noble
Friend of his for whom he entertained a high respect,
indicating the course which should be taken in case of
invasion.—(A laugh.) That letter stated that in such
an emergency the duty of the Lord Mayor of London
would be—not to summon the citizens to its defence—
but to make the Mansion-house head-quarters for
making out billets for the French array.—(Laughter.)
He must say that when he read that letter, he thought
it gave a most imperfect and unjust account of the spirit
of Englishmen.—(Cheers.) He did not mean of the
military—eves that splendid corps the Guards, which
his Noble Friend had since relieved from all im-
putation—but of the strength of the country, of the
spirit of the men of mature age—aye, and even
the old men and old women.—(Cheers, and laughter.)
lie verily believed that if the Lord Mayor,
instead of occupying himself in the defence of
the metropolis, were to abandon that duty for the
purpose of billeting the French army, he would perform
that duty in secret, and dare not show himself in Cheap-
aide.—(Cheers and laughter.) He was perfectly con-
vinced that if an attempt should be made to subject this
country either to insult or invasion, it was difficult to
estimate the spirit with which such an attempt would
be met.—(Hear, hear.) He said nothing against the
propriety of taking proper precautions, because, although
We knew what would be the ultimate result of any at-
tempt, yet even the most partial success must be accom-
panied with much ruin to private fortune and great deso-
lation.—(Hear.) But he confessed that on seeing the
estimates, after reading all the recent publications, so far
from being astounded by the proposition of the Gover-
nment, he was greatly relieved by the proposition of the
-Noble Lord. He thought that a wise discretion had
been exercised in not increasing the naval or military
forces. None but a Government could know the
amount of force necessary; and whoa a proposition
was made on the responsibility of Government, the
circumstances must be very clear which could induce
him, as a private individual, to offer any opposition
to such proposal. He would only say that,
looking at the present state of the world, and the
disposition which we ourselves showed to increase our
colonial empire—looking at Labuan, Hong-Kong, and
other recent acquisitions, which were much approved of,
especially by the mercantile community—he was not
surprised that large increases in our naval and military
establishments should be necessary. He could not look
at what had occurred in China so very recently without
seeing that a necessity might spring up at any moment
for protecting the lives and properties of British subjects
in distant parts of the world.—(Bear, hear.) If Govern-
ment, therefore, recommended a small addition in the
Marines and scientific corps, ho did not feel justified in
offering any opposition. They should look also to Italy,
Spain, and, in the New World, to Mexico, particularly
with reference to the spirit which seemed to be animat
ing the American public—a spirit which he thought
would act to their own detriment—(Hear, hear)—he did
say, looking at all these things, that it was not unrea-
sonable in the present year to ask that our military and
naval establishments might not be reduced. That was
the eoneleision to which he had come, founded upon
those means of observation which were open to every
Member of the House. He was prepared, therefore, to
discuss these estimates, and give his assent to
them generally, without the intervention of any
Committee. At the same time, as Government in-
vited the co-operation of the House in considering
all the details of the estimates, and in inquir-
log into the amount of the force, the --reason why Go-
vernment consider that amount necessary, together with
the mode of conducting the military establishments of
the country, it being understood that such inquiry was
not to interfere with the discretion of the Government
and their responsibility as to the amount of the force,
be thought it possible that some public advantage might
result. He thought public advantage had resulted from
similar inquiries in former years. He must, however,
agree with the Hon. Member for Montrose, that much
would depend on the constitution of the Committee. It
Would not be. satisfactory if wholly composed of persons
"hardened to high estimates"—(Uear, and a laugh)—
Or of men influenced by official habits. But if the in-
quiry were conducted by men who would exercise a full
and free judgment upon all points of public expenditure
brought within their notice—of course he meant that the
Inquiry should be conducted by a Select and not a Secret
Committee—it was possible that some reduction in the
Public expenditure might be effected without prejudice
to the public service. It would, however, be a most
objectionable precedent if they attempted to interfere
With the functions of the Government in respect to
the estimates which they had on their own responsibility
brought forward; and it was because that was his
opinion that he stated he was prepared to assent gene-
rally to the estimates as they had been laid before the
llottse.
Mr. BRIGHT could assure the Right Hon. Baronet
that so far as the north of England was concerned, the
Panic which prevailed had no reference to any fear of
French invasion, but rather to an apprehension that that
cry would be made the pretext for increasing the military
forces of the country, and so to add to the burden of
taxation.—(Hear, hear.) Neither was this alarm alto-
gether groundless, for the people remembered well that
sorne years ago a senseless rumour of a war with
Russia, and subsequently a foolish pamphlet published
by a French Prince, had been seized by the Government
of the day as grounds for adding to our military and
naval establishments. The Right Hon. Gentleman had
stated that there was to be no increase in the army;
hut, as he understood, the 5,000 men who had been re-
eruited for India, but who were uo longer required
there, were to be made part of the permanent force of
this country. What was that but au increase of the
Military force of the country ?—(ea, hea.) The
Right Honourable Baronet had referred to the necessity
uf giving protection to our colonies. He (Mr. Bright)
Z" one of those who thought that if the colonies
ad more responsibility thrown upon themselves, if
„
'us] had to bear the expenses of the wars they in-
voked by their squabbles with the nations—as in the
ease of New Zealand and the Cape—we should have no
such items as 1,100,0G0L for the cost of the Kafir war.—
Wear, hear.) He concurred with the Right Hon.
Baronet as to the responsibility of Ministers in bringing
forward the estimates, but he could not forget that every
Member was individually responsible to his constituents
for
any addition that might be made to the burdens of a
te°Ple already suffering from severe distress.—(Hear,
"r.) Again, though the Noble Lord did not propose
any actual addition to the number of men voted for the
„iiitrmy. he had intimated that the country must look fbr-
i arde y to a gradual augmentation of that force; and when
th
found that in about ten years the estimates for the
array and navy had increased from 11 to 17 millions,
what security had they that in ten years more another
tenmillions would not be added ?—(llear, hoar.) As
6 What had been said about not interfering with the
trssent estimates, it was rather an extraordinary dec-
line for their days to hold that the army, navy, and
lardnance establishments were such sacred things that
they must not be touched by a Committee of that House.
e would say, if Ministers refused to sanction the re-
e?lnolendation of the Committee of the House—sup-
t Zing that the result of the inquiry should be to show
t some reduction might safely be made—their course
Mould be to vacate their offices.—(Hear, hear.)
Colonel sianioliP hoped the proposed Commit-
tee
would extend their inquiries to the salaries of the
Linoinel officers of the several public departments.
e, however, thought it a dangerous precedent to
transfer the functions of the House of Commons to any
Qelee
the .tCommittee. He anticipated no good result from
Mieti,citlirY• With regard to the financial scheme of
metro there was but one feeling throughout this
mo°P°lis, and that was a feeling of disgust.—(Hear.)
t, if th
the 0 people had only the courage, the spirit, and
Perseverance to make their remonstrances heard