The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-17 00:00:00

LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, AUGUST 17, 1848.

matter had not been laid on the table of the House, so
as to place the real facts of the case before the country
and before Europe, and to cast the blame on the shoul-
ders really entitled to bear it.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that the Committee
rep in pro;:ress. and leave to sit again.
The House then restnud, the Chairman reported pro-
gress, and obtained leave to sit again at five o'clock.
The House then adjourned, at Half-past Three, until
Five o'clock.

The Srza.xert resumed the Chair at Five o'clock.
SECULAR EDUCATION.
Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from a place near
Manchester, praying for a general system of secular
education, unaccompanied with the embarrassments of
public instruction.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS.
Mr. SPOONER presented a petition from Warwick,
against the Charitable Trusts Bill.
ARMY REGULATIONS.
Sir DE LACY EVANS wished to ask the Right
II on. the Secretary-at-War whether officers who had
distinguished themselves in the army, but who had since
501;( nut, would he allowed to wear their uniforms upon
public occasions?
ivlr. FOX MAULE said the privilege applied only to
majors and lieutenant-colones who had received the
honour of being made Knights Commanders of the
Bath, and its extension to other officers rested entirely
with her Majesty.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Mr. GROGAN said, about ten years ago a con-
siderable sum of money was voted by the House for
the erection of colleges in Ireland, for the education of
the middle classes of that country. These colleges were
in a very forward state, and he believed some of them
would be opened early next year. Now it was obvious
that any improvement in the social condition of the
people would depend upon the education to be given in
these colleges, and the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government would readily understand the anxiety which
prevailed in Ireland to know the nature of the discipline
and system of education that would be pursued in these
colleges.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it was the opinion of
the Government that the object which Parliament had
in view in making a grant for those colleges would not
be accomplished unless they were open to Roman Ca-
tholics and Presbyterians, as well as to persons belong-
ing to the Established Church. At present, the statutes
were not considered altogether perfect, but they were
now under consideration, and as soon as they were
finally settled he should have no objection to lay them
before the House.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
The House was informed that their Lordships have
agreed to the following Bills:—Militia Ballots Sus-
pension—Walsall Improvement (No. 2), without amend-
ment—Great :Western Railway (Loop Line from the
Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway through
Leamington)—Great Western Railway (Birmingham
and Oxford Junction, &c., Railways Purchase)—Man-
cheater, Buxton, Matlock, and Midlands Junction Rail-
way (Deviation and Branch), with amendments.
SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. URQUHART rose to move, " That from the
correspondence laid upon the table of this House in re-
ference to the suppression of the slave trade in Mus
sulmun countries, it appears that her Majesty's servants
have adopted proceedings calculated to ag-
gravate the horrors of the traffic, and to
alienate from this country the (good will of
the Governments and nations so interfered with."
It was the bounden,duty of the Government, to the best
of its ability, to put an end to the traffic in slaves. Now,
he was prepared to show, in the words of his motion,
that " the proceedings of the Government had aggravated
the horrors of the traffic." The Hon. Gentleman, amid
a buzz of conversation which rendered his observations
almost inaudible, was understood to say that he made
this motion in consequence of the correspondence which
had been laid on the table during the previous week, and
he hoped to prove how very injurious and inefficient had
been all our diplomatic efforts for the suppression of' the
slave trade in Turkey, Persia, and other Mussulmen
countries. We had threatened them with confiscation,
and had even entered into discussions with their doc".ors
relative to their laws; and yet, he maintained, that with
afl these vexatious proceedings the cause of slavery abo-
lition had not advanced one jot. The Honourable
Member proceeded to read lengthy extracts from Lord
Ponsonby's dispatches, the purport of which was, that
notwithstanding all our negotiations, Turkey had re-
fused to declare the slave trade piracy. Also from
our diplomatic agent in Persia, to a similar effect.
He denied that any pledge had been 'given or any
promise made by Persia on the subject, not-
withstanding the assertions to the contrary by
Colonel Shiel and the Noble Lord, repeated in
the dispatches. Slavery was part of the law of
Persia and all Mahometan countries, and we had no
more right to interfere with it than they had to inter•
fere with our internal affairs. The British Minister at
Persia had stated to the Persian Government that Tur-
key had made it unlawful to import African slaves, and
had made that a ground for demanding the fulfilment of
the alleged promise on the part of Prsia, whereas, in
point of fact, Turkey had made no such law, as was
shown in another part of the dispatches. The only re-
sult he could draw from the papers on the table was
that tho British Minister had used his best efforts to
pick a quarrel with Persia. The whole interference of
the Noble Lord was ill-timed, misplaced, injudicious.
and absurd, and was characterised by gross ignorance
of the internal arrangements and policy of those countries
to which he sought to dictate. The result of the Noble
Lord's policy was to force, a quarrel on Persia, and drive
her into the arms of Rus,in. When the Persian Go-
vernment found that they could not obtain the friend.
ship of England, except on the condition of permitting
England to interfere in their internal institutions,
they would accept the quarrel, and seek the friend-
ship and protection of another country which thee
could obtain at less cost—that country against which
in 1828 we entered into a protective treaty with Persia.
Mr. HUME having seconded the amendment,
Lord PALMERSTON observed that the difference
between himself and the Hon. Member on political mat-
ters, to which the Hon. Member had so often alluded.
was never more strongly marked than on the present oc-
casion. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the condi-
tion of domestic slavery in Oriental countries. He (Lord
Palmerston) was an enemy to slavery in any form--to
field slavery or domestic slavery ; and though there
might be a difference between the two as to the treatment
and condition of the slaves, the crimes by which they
were procured and brought to market were the same in
both cases ; and if the motives of humanity which led to
the opposition of domestic slavery were not so strong as
those which influenced us in our endeavours to put a stop
to field slavery, they were in regard to both sufficient to
induce us by every means in our power to put an end to
the system. The Government, therefore, thought that
it was not an improper application of the moral influence
of England to endeavour to induce Mahometan as well as
Christian countries to put an end to the practice of the
slave trade. The first country in which they made the
attempt was Tunis, and the Bey of that country, yield-
ing to that influence, not only abolished the slave trade,
but the condition of slavery altogether in his dominion.
—(Hear, hear.) In that country at least that result
had followed from our interference, which the Hon.
Member said we could never hope for in Mahometan
countries.—(Cheers.) Then the Government addressed
themselves to the Sultan, and endeavoured to induce the
Government of Turkey to prevent the slave trade being
practised by their subjects, feeling that it was too much
to expect that they would put an end to the condition of
slavery. And after five months' exertions they did suc-
ceed in obtaining from the Sultan a firman prohibiting
the slave trade as carried on by the subjects of the Porte.
Ministers next directed their efforts to the Imaum of Mus-
cat, who was a great slave-trader, and by whose subjects
the slave trade was carried on in the most barbarous
manner, and they succeeded so far as to induce that so-
vereign to prohibit his subjects within certain limits from
carrying on that trade. Then they had treaties with
many of the Arab chiefs, by which they engaged not to
carry on the slave trade. Then came Persia. He was
glad the Hon. Member had quoted the dispatches of
Colonel Sbiel on the subject, because the more those
dispatches were read the greater credit would be roflectd
on that gentleman, whose ability and zeal in the per-
formance of his duties entitled him to the highest
praise.—(Hear, hear.) Colonel Shiel had laboured with
great assiduity to persuade the Persian Government to
follow the example of the Sultan, the Imaum of Muscat,
and the Arabian chiefs, and to prohibit the subjects of
the Shah from carrying on the slave trade in the Per-
sian Gulf. The Hon. Member said there was no pro-
mise on the part of Persia, bat the dispatch to which
the Hon. Gentleman had referred clearly showed that
there was a distinct promise, and that the Persian Go-
vernment did make the engagement which Colonel
Sheil very properly claimed the performance of.—(Hear
hear.) The Honourable Member said that her Ma-
jesty's Government had brought matters to that
point where there was no alternative left but for Persia
to accept the quarrel forced upon her, and throw herself
for protection into the hands of Russia. The Hon.
Member had built up an excelsce turris tabulate, and he
would have the unde altior asset cases.--(gear hear.)
ember
But unfortunately for the case of the lion. Memb
notwithstanding his ingenious and elaborate argument
to show how impossible it was for Persia to do that
which her Majesty's representative had asked her to
do, she had actually done it—(Cheers and laughter)—
and if the Hon. Member had only taken the pains to
consult the documents produced before the Slave-trade
Committee, which were now, he believed, on the table
of the House, he would have seen, since the correspon-
hd ea nd
i essu the
ed a Hon.fim ato prohibit Memberquotedrihithis
from, that the Shah
subjects from carry-
ing on the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to
cr
that part of the Hon. Member
the operations against
speech in which he
had gone back to Herat, he
would only ask the House to remember the admission
the Hon. Member had himself made, that the Persian
expedition against Herat was in effect a danger threat-
ened against our Indian empire.—(Hear.) That was
the ground of the proceedings of the British Govern-
ment at that time, amid he was glad to have the con-
firmation of the Hon. Member so far that Government
were right in the view they then took.
After a few words from
Mr. URQUHART, who
denied that the Noble Lord had fairly represented him,
Mr. HUME, though agreeing that Government were
justified in using all legitimate influence to put down the
slave trade in other countries, objected to the attempts
to effect the object by means such as those employed on
the coast of Atrica, which, instead of effecting the object
in view, only added to the horrors of the traffic.
Sir R. 11. INGLIS reminded the lion. Member that
during the fourteen years the African squadron had been
kept up, we had taken eighty ships, which, if not cap-
tured, would have conveyed 190,000 slaves to the Ame-
rican coast.
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that the subject to which
the Hou. Member for Montrose had adverted had been
the subject of inquiry before a Committee, and he would
examine the evidence to see if it were possible to adopt