The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-17 00:00:00

- "M.,. -7, 47.0.11.7- . 4-.OA
the terms of the resolutions should be more general.
He (Sir G. Clerk) thought it would be better for him to ap-
ply directly to the Board of Trade on the subject, fur the line
betwixt Gloucester and Bristol was peculiarly circumstanced,
and he was certain the Board of Trade would give it their
earliest consideration.

Mr. LABOUCHERE, who concurred in the views of the
Government, thought, however, it would be more convenient
if they would consent to adjourn the present debate and recon-
sider these resolutions, for he thought after the discussion which
had taken place any amendments that might be introduced
would be very defective. He thought that too much witsleft
to the discretion of Committees, and that more should
depend directly on the sanction of thei House. His principle
was, that the broad gauge ought not to be extended ; always,
of course, presuming that no engineering difficulties interfered
to prevent the construction of narrow gunge lines. But in the
resolution proposed, exceptions were made in favour of certain
short branch lines running into the Great Western, which
were to be permitted to lay down the broad gauge. Now, there
was a short line connected with the South Wales Railway—a
short line from Portsmouth to the Bristol Channel—but it ap-
peared to him most vicious to lay down that line on the nar-
row gauge. He mentioned this only to show the House how
these resolutions would operate in certain eases.
Sir T. WILDE said, it was the general opinion that the
object of the resolutions was to avoid a break of gauge, and
that these resolutions should be reconsidered. Defects in
them had been suggested which he thought attached to them,
but lie had heard no answer given upon the subject. These
r,2soluti,ms ought be reconsidered, for in his opinion they
were defleient. The second resoltition, for example, made
certain exceptions, yet in reference to these excepted
which had already got the sanction of the Legislature, it vat
said that they were not to alter their gauge without the
sanction of the Legislature, lie did not understand what was
meant; they had already obtained the sanction of the
Legislature, and they were compelled to apply for it
again. Again, by the fourth resolution, the S out
h
Wales line and branches into Hereford were to
be sanctioned
on the broad gauge. Why, he asked, should theselines
sanctioned again when they had obtained the sanction of the
Legislature already. The effect of the sth resolution was
equally irregular. For if the House intended to do somethine,
as the resolution presumed, why should the Board of Trade
recommend them to do that—why should the House be com-
pelled to do that which it was willing to do ? Surely, he said,
the propositions might be stated in a manner more worthy of
the dignity of the House, and, therefore, the resolu-
tions might be reconsidered with advantage. The last
resolution was most unparliamentary, for it proposed that
the House should compel the Board of Trade to do some-
thing recommended by the Gauge Commission. The Learned
Gentleman proceeded to comment upon the first resolution, il-
lustrating the inconvenience which would arise from it if car-
ried out. The Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton line,
he said, joined the Great Western at Oxford. Was that line,
he wished to ask, to be considered as a connexion with the Great
Western Railway, and would that be among the exceptions
allowed in favour of some short branches running into the main
line of the Great Western ? It was doubtful whether
they would so consider it. But if it were, he submitted
that branches of a few miles in length, though not directly
connected with the Great Western, yet running into the
Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton line, were as much to
be looked upon as branches of the Great Western as those
which fell into it immediately, and therefore to be made excep-
tions under the resolution. He therefore thought that the
words of that resolution ought to be general, and he was sure
that the Right Hon. Baronet would lose no time, and would
consult the general convenience, if tie withdrew the resolutions
that they might be reconsidered.
Mr. E. DENISON said the House seemed to be almost
unanimous in thinking that the last three resolutions ought to
be withdrawn, and that the first two should be amended as had
been suggested by the Honourable Member for Devonport
He wished to insert the Board of Trade in the resolutions.
He thought there could be no objection to this course. With
that slight alteration he thought the resolutions should be
allowed to pass.
Sir R. PRICE thought it unfair that the broad gauge
lines should be confined to the narrow limits assigned to it
by the report of the commissioners. He hoped they would
shortly see one of these broad gauge lines going to the north
with double the speed, and carrying three times the load which
the narrow gauge company could.
Mr. DENISON thought that there should he no time lost
in deciding this question. He had the honour of being chairman
of a Committee in which one portion of country between
Exeter and Yeovil was contested for by the broad and the
narrow gauge. If it was the pleasure of the House that only
the narrow line should be laid down on this district, they would
of course know what to do in the matter.

Mr. W. COLLETT considered that, although the broad
gauge had been a very pretty and successful experiment, and
had produced a spirit of competition among railways which
had been of great advantage to the interests of the public, yet
with reference to the statements of the Hon. Member for
Reading (Mr. Russell) of the economy of the broad gauge,
he would say that it was a statement utterly unsupported by
evidence. The Commissioners had decided quite the contrary
in their report. After hearing all the evidence which could be
adduced before them, they declared that the narrow gauge was
the more economical of tlVitwo, and better adapted for the
interests of the public. He hoped the House would at once
come to some resolution upon the matter, and not allow the
present state of uncertainty to hang over the Committees
having to decide upon the railways brought before them.
Mr. HA YTER considered that with reference to the South
Wales Railway the present resolutions would prove highly ob-
jectionable, as the Tenhy and Saundersfoot, and other branches
belonging to the South Wales, must be constructed upon the
narrow gauge if the resolutions were carried out in their in-
tegrity. The same would apply to the Oxford, Worcester, and
Wolverhampton, and even to the Great Western Railway
itself. He hoped the Government would make those resolu-
tions more perfect and more adapted to the circumstances they
were req,uired to meet.
Mr. F. SCOTT wished to know why the three resolutions
had been abandoned. He thought the whole of the resolu-
tions should have been passed as they were first proposed.
Sir J. CLERK stated that objection was taken to the word-
ing of these resolutions.
Mr. F. SCOTT—Does the third resolution stand as
originally proposed?
Sir J. CLERK—It does not.

Mr. F. SCOTT—Then I object to the alterations the
Right Hon. Baronet intended. He was supposed to adhere to
his second speech.

Dr. 130 SkRING wished to know whether the short branches
of railways from the South Wales lines, running towards the
sea, would be allowed to be constructed on the broad gauge.
The sea would be an effectual boundary, and they could not
run into the narrow gauge country.
Sir G. CLERK said that provisions had been made in the
resolutions for that circumstance. Under all the circum.
stanees he saw no reason why they should not be constructed
on the broad gauge.

Mr. HAWES-thought that it was of some importance to
conclude the discussion on these resolutions as early as pos-
sible. He could not help remarking that during the whole
evening not a single Member had supported the amendment of
his Hon Friend the Member for Montrose, yet the system pro-
posed by him was one of considerable value. The Board of
Trade had taken into consideration all the circumstances con-
nected with railway companies, and had come to some deter-
minations with respect to the broad and narrow gauge. It
was most desirable that the Government should press these
determinations upon the attention of the House.
Colonel ANSON said that the gest of the argument of his
Hon. Friend was, that some discretionary power should be left
to the Government to continue the double line further than
was conveyed in these resolutions. He would be glad to sup-
port such a plan, but at the same time he thought that no
mixture of the gauges should take place ; but that the lines
should run entirely and strictly separate.
Lord PALMERSTON said that he had heard of a curious
invention for the purpose of obviating the inconvenience of a
break of gauge. The principal inconvenience arose, not from
the transfer of passengers from one gauge to another,
but from the transfer of goods. It consisted of a waggon,
the trunk part of which was separable from the truck
part, and the trunk part when loaded could easily he
transferred to another truck on the broad gauge. In
this manner a merchant could load his own waggon and send it
down by the ordinary waggon to the railway, where it would be
transferred to the truck on the line. He thought that the
House should have some report upon this subject, in order to
see how far the principle was applicable to break of gauge.
Mr. HUME said that he would not then press the motion
he had made to a division, but he would allow it to remain
upon the paper to mark his sense of the conduct of the Govern-
ment.

The first resolution was then carried, with the exception of
the words " South Wales " being inserted after the words
" Great Britain."

•
The second was then proposed.
After a few words from Lord PALMERSTON,
Sir G. CLERK consented to add the words " that it is
the; opinion of this House that no directors shall hereafter alter
the gauge of their line without the consent of Parliament,"
before the words " that no line shall hereafter be formed."
Sir R. PEEL suggested that the best way of wording the
resolution would be this—" That it is the opinion of this House
provision should be made by law to prevent directors of rail-
ways from altering the gauge hereafter."—( Hear, bear.)
After a few words from Mr. Ricardo, Sir T. Wilde, and the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the suggestion was adopted, and
the resolution as amended agreed to.
On the third resolution being proposed,
Mr. T. BARING said he was afraid the spirit of the reso-
lutions might be misconstrued, and parties who were promoting
particular schemes, such as the Manchester and Southampton
line, seriously injured by such misconstruction. He wished,
therefore, to add these words to it, " Without prejudice to
the formation of any other railway connecting the north of
England with the southern coast."
A short discussion ensued upon the propriety of more spe-
cifically defining the line from Basingstoke to the south, or
rather the part in the south, whence it should be carried.
Colonel ANSON moved that the words specifying the line
from the north to the south should be omitted altogether.
Mr. C. RUSSELL said the resolution was sufficiently plain
and explicit, and he was prepared to support it as it stood.
Mr. B. HAWES supported the resolution upon the same
ground.

Mr. E. DENISON protested that he would divide the
House upon the resolution, if it were persevered in, fcoorntstwear-s
understood at an early period of the evening, that
its id
pa thieoint
ywtohuel d
linebe tpeo svit phoi
enhe d,
it
nh
de
d. viewa of defining more ex-
It was the knowledge of
this fact, which induced him to resist its adoption now.
Mr. HAY TER hoped tha.t the Right Hon. Baronet would
not submit to any alteratio in the original resolutions.
Colonel ANSON said he would withdraw his amendment if
the Right lion. Baronet would consent to the reconsideration
of
Sirthe resolution.G .
the narrow CLERKgaugetesaclidxfwerhda,t
atnhdeyrapirso posed
bothw
Mr. HAWESsaidsomthee
narrow gauges along artpeh ofen t thei
was otnor t ddoawmin
h harmoniseesuttehte:bl
It
he two
gauges, so that the country should be shared between them.
He granted that the narrow gauge had got the lion's
share. Yet a line had been fixed of demarcation between
them, but the effect of the resolution of the Hoe. Member for
Portsmouth would be to break in upon that.
it was afterwards agreed to adjourn
The galleries were ordered to be tchleeadreedhaftoer. a division, but
Mr. HUME moved for leave to bring in a Bill for procuring
by all
accounts of receipt and expenditure persons administer-
. Mr. FREWEN moved bring in a Bill for the
administer-
ing charitable trusts in England.—Agreed
to
fl to.
more effectual admini4tration of justice.=Agreed to.
Captain PECHELL postponed his motion for ts.king into
consideration the petition of the rate-payers of the of
Winkfield, complaining of the conduct of the Poor-law Com-
missioners, and the proceedings of the board of guardians of the
East Hampstead Union, till a future day. The Honourable
Member then moved for a copy of the minute record-
ing the dissent of one of the Poor-law Commissioners to the
issue of the Order of the Bth day of November, 1845, pro-
hibiting the employment of paupers in workhouses in pounding
bones. Also, a copy of a report of the Secretary of the Poor-
law Commissioners on Bone-crushing.—Agreed to.

CHURCHES BILL.
The second reading of the Churches' Bill was postponed till
:his day.

COUNTY WORKS PRESENTMENTS (IRELAND)
AMENDMENT BILL.
The consideration of the report on this Bill was postponed
till Thursday.

The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Half-past One o'clock.