The Sun.
London, England, 1848-12-30 00:00:00

FINANCIAL REFORM.
PUBLIC MEETING.
(From the Caledonian Mercury of Thursday.)
Last night a public meeting, under the. auspices of the
Financial Reform Association, was held in the Waterloo
Booms, for the purpose of passing resolutions in favour
of economy and retrenchment in the national expendi-
ture. The meeting was very numerously and re-
spectably attended. Amongst those on the plat-
form we observed the Lord Provost, Charles Cowan,
MP., William Chambers, Esq., A. Dunlop, Esq.,
advocate, John Wigham, Jun., Esq., Duncan M‘Laren,
Esq., William Duncan, Esq., S.S.C., Professor Dick,
James Maclaren, Esq., Archibald Thomson, Esq., Bailies
Tullis and Melville, Dean of Guild Wilson, Con-
vener Weir, Councillors James Gray, A. Fyfe, R.
Miller, Hay, Ridpath, Sclanders, Gailland, Drum-
mond, and Anderson; Thomas Russell, Esq., Peter
Bowden, Esq., Robert S. Grieve, jun:, Esq., William
Tait) Esq., Robert Cox, Esq., W.S.; Ralph Rich-
ardson, Esq., William Deans, Esq., Thomas Ire-
land, Esq., Alexander Craig, Esq., William M'Crie,
Esq., Dr. T. Alexander, John Richardsone, Esq., Leitch
Ritchie, Esq., john Johnstone, Esq., R. Sheils, Esq.,
R. Howden, Esq., W.S.; Hugh Rose, Esq., Provost
M`Laren, Leith; George Stone, Esq., Hew Crichton,
Esq., Robert Richardson, Esq., Peter Wilson, Esq., J.
M. Mitchell, Esq., Leith; James Durham, Esq., J.
Menzies, Esq., J. P. Falkner, Esq., R. Whyte, Esq., R.
4W. Jameson, Esq., W.S.; Thomas Nelson, Esq., &c.
On the motion Qf Mr. JouN WIGHAM, jun., the Lord
Provost was called to the chair.
The oan PROVOST said, he was desired to state, that
Mr. Duncan, the Member for Dundee, had sent an
apology regretting that he could not be present on that
occasion. He (the Lord Provost) begged to thank them
for placing him in the chair at such a large and influen-
tial meeting of his fellow-citizens. They were met for
no party purpose.---(Hear, hear.) They were about
to make no party warfare; but they were about respect-
fully, and he trusted firmly, to urge upon the Govern-
ment of the country the duty, and he would say the
necessity, of keeping the national expenditure within
the national income.—(Applause.) There could be
.no
doubt that this great country had been stricken with
di
of
a fit of thrift.—(Hear, and a laugh.) From one e 2
the land to the other, they had people calling out eco-
nomy, economy," and he had no doubt that, sooner or
later, and to a larger or smaller extent, they would have
• their humour out.—(Applause.) He trusted that their
demands that evening would be reasonable, that they
would prune the overgrown branches of the State with
something like caation ; that they would enforce their de-
-t with no other force than the force of reasoning ;
that they would make their demands firmly but reason-
ablY; acid he had no doubt, if this were done, to both
Houses of the British Legislature the British public
would not call in rain.—(Applause.) He trusted,
at the same time, that they would ask nothing
ttiat might tend, even by implication, to weaken the
faith of the nation, nor yet to injure in any way the great
institutions of the State. He had a strong feeling that
those gallant men who had fought our battles by land
and by sea ought to be honourably and liberally re-
warded.—(Hear, and applause.) He knew that there
were amongst them, not there, but elsewhere, some who
would not care to scuttle the labouring vessel of the
state; but he knew that it was theirs rather to stop the
leak, and to right the vessel.—(Applause.) Believing
this to be their sentiments, he trusted that everything
would be done decently and it order,--(The Lord Pro-
vost resumed his seat amidst applause.)
Mr. WILLIAM CHAMBERS said, the motion that had
been put into his hand referred to the present unsatis-
factory condition of the national finances, and the great
waste in various departments of the State; and these
were truths so universally acknowledged, that he should
be fortunately spared making any very lengthened
explanations or remarks. According to the last annual
exposition of affairs, it appeared that the expenditure
for the year exceeded the revenue by about three
millions. To find rdeans for the exigency, the Govern-
ment attempted to raise the income-tax from three to
five per cent, and failed.--(Hear, hear.) Instead of re-
sorting to any scheme of retrenchment, they had bor-
rowed money, and thus increased the national debt.
Alarmed at this state of things, and perceiving a re-
markable apathy on the subject among the party in
power, financial reform associations had spontaneously
sprung up in different parts of the country.—(Hear.)
Whatever be the aims of these bodies generally, our ob-
ject was clear before us. It was to show by a proper
exhibition of figures and facts, that so far from adding
to the burdens of the people, taxation might be ma-
terially diminished, merely by effecting certain impor-
tant retrenchments in expenditure, and that without im-
pairing the necessary efficiency of the public service.—
(Applause.) He would, in the first place, allude to the
various items of income and expenditure. Our present
annual income was said to be fifty-one millions, and our
expenditure fifty. four millions. But here, at the very out-
set, he was under the necessity of complaining that means
were not afforded for the country learning what was the
actual or whole revenue, or how it was spent. The me-
thod of keeping the Government accounts was so corn- i
plicated, that they never got a clear debtor and cre-
ditor stettement; and the truth was only got at by sifting
a large mass of blue books. Instead of fifty-one mil-
lions the income was fifty-eight millions, and instead
of fifty-four millions, the expenditure was sixty-one
millions.—(Hear, hear.) The source of this mystifica-
tion was very easily explained. The various departments
of the customs, excise, taxes, &c., were in the practice of
detaining certain moneys as they passed through their
bands, and paying the salaries of officials and other ex-
penses which were incurred. The amount which was
thus detained, in the aggregate, amounted in the various
departments to seven millins; therefore the income of
this country was fifty-eight not fifty-one millions.—
(Hear.) The ready excuse for this kind of practice
was, that it was convenient and saved trouble; and that
it was much the same thing in the end, as the money
must be paid at any rate.—(A laugh.) There might be
some reason for this were the payments only the salaries
of officials ; but it appeared from an inspection of cer-
tain blue books, that such was not altogether true. It
seemed that, besides paying the salaries of officers, there
were a number of payments or pensions to individuals
altogether unconnected with those departments. They
would, perhaps, be somelehAt surprised to learn that in
Scotland the whole expense of our courts of judicature
and our sheriffs' was not paid out of the Exchequer,
but taken out of money intercepted as it passed through
the customs. In other words, 169,000/. out of the
customs were detained to pay the Court of Session and
the other courts ; which sum did not make its appear-
ance in the national accounts. Another payment was
detained from the taxes to the extent of 17,000/., in
order to augment the stipends of the clergy of the
Established Church. This sum did not make its ap-
pearance la the usual way through Parliament, but
was paid, in a kind of behind-backs way, out of cer-
tain departments of the State without making its
appearance In the expenditure. But there was some-
thing much more objectionable than that. He alluded
to certain pensions. The Post-office revenue, for in-
statute, was charged with a pension to the Duke of
Marlborough of 4,000/. ; the Duke of Grafton
3,4071. 101. ; and the heirs of the Duke of Schomberg
2,900/. ; in all 10,3071. 103., which was intercepted as it
passed through the Post-office, to pay pensions, which,
he ventured to say, were imposed fully a century ago.
The same thing was done with respect to the Excise.
Ho found, with reference to the blue book before him, that
there was another pension to the Duke of Grafton, who
received 7,191/. from the Excise. The Earl Cowper
received 1,595/. from the same source ; while 1,100/.
was given as a moiety of the Earl of Bath's pension ;
making 9,9801. odd from the Excise. This was a state
of things which they had great reason to complain of ;
and what they wanted was this, that all payments neces-
sary to bepaid should be paid directly from the Exchequer,
and that those payments should pass under the revision
of the House of Commons, so that they would
know exactly how they stood.—(Applause.) By this
means, mid by this means only, would they have a clear
debtor and creditor statement. There were various
other things connected with the book-keeping of the coun-
try which he could mention; as for instance, the national
debts of England and Ireland were still kept separate,
as well as the consolidated funds of Great Britain and Ire-
land ; just as if Great Britain and Ireland were two dis-
tinct nations, whereas they were incorporated into one at
the period sf the Union in 1800.—(Applause.) In reality,
this sytem of mystification in making, up the books of the
country rendered it quite impossible for any man who did
not sit down, and take a week to study a great variety of
blue books, and that with the greatest possible trouble, to
have an accurate idea of the moneys which were paid out.
He passed from that, as one of the things which they
wished to have reformed, to much graver matters. He
had stated that the expenditure of
enditure of the
.country was
about 54 millions. Now, of this 28 millions were ex-
pended in the shape of
PaYmeut of the interest .on
the nstional debt. That could
would
tlbe meddled
. with.
The national creditors' Vltsvirhaoteuvd not. be. invaded
by anything hethsheyeumldussat
be
honotirx
obligations had
been incurred,
bYtiZee.
The next item in the national
of about 2,700,000/. for the civil Govereeztent.
tire cost of the civil Government of this peat erne e.ri-
was 2,700,000/4 which, at the present amouat oe Pu. 9
pulation, came to about 2s. a head. But they be..
sides this, such an enormous sum for what was set
down under the war establishment, that it left the
civil Goverument altogether insignificant in amount.
The present amount paid for the war establish-
ment was 18 millions. This, with the 28 millions of
interest on the national debt, which he considered to be
nothing more than a postponed war tax, brought the
total payment of this country for the war principle to
forty-six millions.—(gem.,) That they paid forty-six
millions for war there could be no doubt. Now, forty-
six millions for war, two or three millions for the civil
Government, and two or three millions extra for such
purposes as affording relief to Ireland, was all that we
had to pay; and if, therefore, there was any saving to
be effected at all, it mast be, as Mr. Cobden said, out
of our enormous expenditure.—(Applause.) The' sum
of 18 millions was so vast, that they could not form a
right or adequate idea of its amount. They saw the
figures before them, but they could not form in their
imagination what it would buy. He would, therefore,
suggest to their mindsome idea of it. The annual rental
of Edinburgh and its suburbs was about 500,0004, and
taking the property at 25 years' purchase, which would
be 12,500,0001., it thus appeared that eight months of
the present war expenditure was equal to the value
of the whole fee simple of Edinburgh. As a similar
comparison could be drawn in reference to Glasgow,
Liverpool, Manchester, and other cities, they had
the startling fact of the war expenditure gradually swal-
lowing up the whole value of the country. It was alleged
that this expenditure on the war establishment was re-
quired to defend the country from invasion, but he be-
lieved that to be a complete fallacy. The greater pro-
portion of our armaments were employed in interfering
in the government of foreign nations, and for maintain-
ing our colonial possessions—but they surely bad come to
this knowledge, that in future they should not interfere in
the quartele of foreip noticw...(Applowie,) They hod

nearly got enough of interference with foreign nations.
The national debt was incurred in a great measure, be-
cause we interfered with our neighbours' quarrels.
Since such was the case, on what grounds did they
continue to keep a fleet of war vessels in the Mediterra-
nean or in the Tagus? He wanted to know from Lord
Palmerston what right the people of Britain had to main-
tain the present Queen on the throne of Portugal, if the
people of Portugal desired somebody else? The same
thing might be said with respect to Naples and
Sicily. If there was a quarrel between the Nea-
politans and the Sicilians, let them settle that quarrel
amongt themselves.—(Continued applause.) But instead
of this we were in the habit of keeping up a fleet of
vessels in the Bay of Naples and in the Straits of Mes-
sina, with a view of acting, as it were, as police.
officers for the Neapolitans.—(Laughter and applause.)
He observed that there was at one time as many
as six vessels of war lying with their guns pointed
to the city of Naples. Could that be considered either
as a just or a Christian action ? How should we like
if a fleet of Neapolitan vessels were lying in the Firth
of Forth, with their guns pointed to Edinburgh, and
determined to lie there until we settled some internal
outburst ? We should say, in all likelihood, "Go
away, we will be quite able to settle our disputes our-
selves."—(Loud applause.) If the Government con-
sidered that the present war establishment was abso-
lutely necessary for the defence of the country let them
say so; but they did not say so; for we were told by
the Speech from the Throne, year after year, that her
Majesty was at peace with all foreign nations.--
(Hear, hear.) Therefore thero must he some fallacy
under the matter.—(Hear, hear.) If Lord John Russell
now chose to tell them that it was necessary to pre-
serve these large armanents, because foreign powers were
at this moment also powerfully armed, he could just turn
to his own learned treatise on constitutional government,
printed almost 25 years ago, where he found his Lord-
ship saying, that " As long as the numbers of the army
can be proved to be indispensable for maintaining garri-
sons and fortified places, and preserving a nucleus of
war, the nation may consider general harangues against
a standing army as puerile declamation ; but when
they hear it urged, that it is necessary to assimilate
our peace establishment to that of the Continental
Powers, and that a large army is rendered necessary
by the increase of our population, then it is time for
them to rouse themselves, and shake off, before it is
too late, the burden of a military Government."—
(Applause.) He believed that Lord John Russell could
not deny that another large department of the expen•
diture was incurred by what was generally considered
the misgovernment of the colonies. It appeared by an
admirable speech on the subject by Sir William Moles-
worth last session, that the colonies required very
few soldiers indeed, provided they were properly go-
verned. On the contrary, however, we denied
them their proper constitutional rights, while we en-
tailed on them heavy taxes.--(Hear, hear.) The
consequence was, that those colonies, whose arrange-
ments were managed in connexion with the Co-
lonial-office were always in a half state of re-
bellion, and therefore it was necessary to keep troops
in the colonies with the view of suppressing these pos-
sible revolts. He thought it was quite possible that they
might purchase the colonies, and the whole colonial
possessions, at much too high a price.—(Great applause).
The amount of our trade with them was not more than
from seven to eight millions. Now, the colonies cost us
in cash four millions, and as at this moment we were
losing three millions in connexion with certain differen-
tial duties, therefore we were, in point of fact, keeping
these colonies for the purpose of making them a
present of some seven or eight millions worth
of goods.—(Hear, hear.) It seemed that the expendi-
ture on the colonies was always in the ratio of the man-
ner in which they were locally governed. The cost
for the local government of those colonies which had
representative assemblies was, he believed, only
14s. 11d. a head ; whereas those colonies which
were managed by the Colonial-office were 11. 14s.
a head. Sir William 3folesworth alluded, in the
course of his speech, to the singular difference that
prevailed between the salaries paid to certain func-
tionaries in these colonies and similar officials in the
United States. He said, that in Canada, with a popula-
tion of 1,200,000, the Governor was paid 7,000/. a year,
while the President of the United States received only
5,000/. ; and the Governor of no individual State received
more than 1,2001. The Governor of the State of New
York, for instance, received 8002 Then the Chief Jus-
tices of,Upper and Lower Canada were paid 1,5001. a year
each, while the Chancellor and the Chief Justice of the
State of New York received only 8001.: a year each—
and so on. And not only so, but there were frequent
payments to parties in the colonies who also possessed
situations at home. It was quite a common thing, for
example, for a person to be a Governor, and to possess
two or three other situations. He might, perhaps, be
the colonel of an army in England. By such means, he
might swell his salary to an enormous amount. Such
was the case with the Governor of Bermuda. He
was the Governor of Bermuda, while he was at the same
time a captain of the royal navy. In short, there was
no end of it. They must, therefore, agree with Mr.
Cobden when be said that the principal saving in our
overgrown expenditure was to be effected by an enor-
mous reduction in our armaments.—( Applause.) It was
his belief that such armaments were not necessary or
desirable. They wished then to take off a number of the
millions off that account. But independently of this,
and which had escaped Mr. Cobden's attention, they held
that there might be an immense saving by the re-orga-
nization of certain departments within these. Could any-
thing be more monstrous than for every regiment to
have a colonel and a lieutenant-colonel; or one man to
do the duty, and the other to sit at home and do nothing.
Yet these colonels were well paid. In turning to the
Army List, he found that their salary was about 600/.
a-year; but, over and above this, they also enjoyed the
privilege of supplying the army with clothing. They
were, in point of fact, merchant tailors.—(Laughter
and applause.) They might draw 600/. a year as
colonels, but perhaps they might pocket 4001. or 5001. a
year in the shape of cabbage.—(Renewed laughter and
applause.) They were now let into the secret of how
the Merchant Tailor Incorporation of London enter-
tained the Duke of Wellington and other generals and
colonels to dinner. They were all birds of a feather.—
(A laugh.) With respect to the navy, the same thing ,
went on there. In turning to the blue books he found,
that they had at the present moment 199 admirals; and
and that of that number 185 were on half pay, so that
there were only, in point of fact, 14 performing their
proper functions.—(Hear and cheers.) This was pleas-
ing enough for them, but hard enough for us. All this
was monstrous and must be reformed. Mr. Osborne
mentioned in the debate, on the army estimates that by
stich matters alone, at least 570,000/. could be saved every
year. If this were the case, why was it net done? Why
had not the present Government the energy to investi-
gate this matter? We need not say any more respect-
ing our war establishment, which had been so admirably
treated by Mr. Cobden. Therefore, he would go to
some other departments where the pruning knife was
required. He would reeer to the Woods and Forests,
where monstrous abuses existed. It appeared that the
entire revenue of the Woods and Forests for one year
was 470,000/., and that the expenditure was 332,0001.
He observed with respect to the New Forest, that it con-
sisted of 66,000 acres, valued at a million and a half. 52
keepers were required, the head keeper being the Duke
ofiCambridge. He would be far indeed from wishing to
rob England of the dignity of having these forests, but
he thought that as matters stood, economy earnestly
demanded that they ought by all means to be got rid of.
—(Hear.) One of the threats was a dead loss, the keep-
ing of it being more than the remuneration got from it.
The Government had one farm for keeping deer, which
deer were kept for official presents. This farm was a
dead loss. It did not realise a shilling. But it was said
that these forests were necessary for the purpose of fur-
nishing timber. This, it appeared, was also a fallacy.
One would suppose that the timber required to build
our ships would be transferred from these fo-
rests direct to the dockyards, without having to be
sold in the usual way that timber was sold.
It appeared, however, that the Woods and Forests
Commissioners sold the timber to the Admiralty, which
was just the same as if one's left hand was to sell to his
right.—(A laugh.) Now, the charge which the Com-
missioners of Woods and Forests made for the load of
timber was eight guineas ; but the Admiralty had found
that they could get timber for six guineas equally good.
It was a mystery how contractors, that get their wood
from these same forests could undersell the Commis-
sioners ; and it was perhaps only to be explained on the
principle laid down by King Richard, when he gave a
warrant to kill three deer, saying "If that be not a war-
rant for killing thirty, I am no true King."—(Laughter.)
Therefore, perhaps, when they got a warrant to cut
down ten trees, they cut down a hundred. Hence it was
clear that the Government made nothing by being
timber merchants, and the sooner they gave it up the
better.—(Applause.) But it might be said, what would
we do for these forests in time of war, as we could not
get wood to build our ships ?—(Hear, hear.) Sir
William Symonds, however, said that timber could
be got as good, and much cheaper, from the Appenines,
and hence it was better at once to retire from that
trade. This, therefore, was one of the points
which they wished to get reformed. Mr. Chambers
then referred to the enormous sums expended in diplo-
matic services, and stated, that our diplomacy costs us
app at
floloyra lne7puOem,eobi Otte?: , which was exclusive of about 30,0001.
pf
at el r
ambassadors, detailing thheo
staked
afoul
drrbe"vnisioton mofistshioenpsri.-ncAi
f
a I I ew altogether
ed monstrous that such a system
gal oii
rut
el
was
thet go on ? The next thing that re-
year to 586,oesu,the
Dukewas made up of such items as
an pension list. It amounted last
ofo Cumberland, who was at
21,000/. a-year to.
p a /
to Kingindividuals
v ief d
aoI Hanover
whoover ; and
never
dida greatany .
present the reigniei
ad
done
naennyteeriersvi:ethtos
thing for their pensions,
take a penny from any
that was paid
his eountry. He held that
13ric:a jozhwe army or navy should be paid the best
by any state ; but he would say to them,
pact that you will do your duty for it
yon
ox-
are no longer able to perform your functions see w?inl
you a proper retiring allowance." Mr. ive
then alluded to the large sums that were paid Chambers
annually
for the police of Dublin and London, as well as to the
grants given yearly to the benevolent institutions of the
former city ; and said that it was unfair to give nothing,.
to Scotland for those purposes, when so much was give?,
to England and to Ireland ; although his own opinion
was that the police of eaeh city should be paid by the
inhabitants of it. He then adverted to the expenses in-
curred in the slave trade, and said it cost us 700,C00/.
a-year, or about 230/. for each slave liberated; indepen-
dently of a loss of life equal to ono Englishman for
every four slaves liberated. This should also be re-
formed; and the only way, in his opinion, for :putting
an end to:this inhuman traffic would be to belt the coast
of Africa with civilised communities like that of Liberia,
recently established. Mr. Chambers concluded, amidst
much applause, by proposing the first resolution, which
Ives ;es ivll9lY4 ;--„"'II t the Atiti9ll4i &AIM, a><o at

present in a most unsatisfactory condition, there being
not only an excess of expenditure over revenue, but an
enormous waste in various departments of the State."
Mr. ALEXANDER DUNLOP, advocate, said that he rose
with very great pleasure to second the resolutions which
had been proposed. He felt that he could not rise to the
expectation which his friend Mr. Chambers had held
out, because his leisure did not permit him to make that
preparation for addressing them on the subject as he
would wish to do. He, however, gladly appeared to
show his good will for the cause which had brought
them together. Although he feared he stood very much
alone, at least on the platform, in the profession to which
he belonged—(Applause)—yet he must say that he
was cordially prepared to take part with his fellow-
citizens in any change which -should be made against
a penny-wise and pound foolish economy—(A p-
plause)—and to take his stand along with them in
insisting on whatever Government should be in power,
whether Whig, Tory, or Radical, that the matter of the
national finance should be put right. (Continued ap-
lause.) He was happy in having been preceded
by a gentleman who had made himself so thoroughly
master of the details connected with this subject, and
he would not say a word upon the details. There were
just two general facts which he thought were sufficient
to satisfy him as to the necessity of this meeting being
held, and of corresponding meetings being held through-
out the kingdom. The first fact was, that for the last
three or four years this country, in financial mat-
ters, was, as it were, swimming for existence, the in-
come being unable to meet the expenditure, and trying
to make up the deficiency here at one time and there at
1 another.—(Hear, hear.) Last year it was found that
they could not increase the taxation of the country; and
in this way they were cramped, crippled, and hampered,
unable to do any one thing; and so far from being in a
state to be the dread of any nation who might attempt,
or might be supposed to attempt, to attack them,
tkey might just be regarded as an object of prey,
from the very circumstance that they were so
fettered and embarrassed that they dared not
turn their hand to any one single thing.—(Hear, hear.)
All that they could do was just to keep themselves afloat,
as they found that they could scarcely pay the current
expenditure of the year. Now this state of things must
be put an end to—(Great applause)—because, if they
went on as they were doing, they must make up their
minds to look in the face all those terrible dangers to
which embarrassed finances has always exposed, and
must continue to expose, every nation. This state of
things must, however, be put an end to. They must
have an expenditure less than their income; nay, they
must have a surplus income over their expenditure, or
they must be prepared to face dangers which were be-
yond all calculation. The question then was, how a sur-
plus income could be realised. It has been proved that,
for the last two or three years, there has been in-
creased taxation.—(Hear, hear.) The country will not
bear this, and it ought not to bear it.—(Applause.)
The only way, therefore, in which a surplus !income
can be effected, was by a reduction of the expenditure;
and at whatever sacrifice, this must be done.—(Hear.)
They, however, knew from the experience of past years,
that a reduction of the expenditure could take place.
When they looked to 1835 they found that the expendi-
ture in that year was ten millions less than at present.
He did not say that all the reductions which were made
in that year were the very best that could have been
made. He believed that what was done in that way then
was not intended for a permanent reduction. He believed
that there were clippings and parings, and perhaps un-
wise pieces of economy then made, in order to reduce
the expenditure for a year or two; but he knew from it
that a large reduction could be made with perfect secu-
rity to the country, and all their available means of
defence.—(Hear.) He concurred entirely in the obser-
vations that had been made, that those who were engaged
at present in this agitation would scorn the idea of desir-
ing to clip and pare down the men who really served the
country.—(Applause.) They wished that all those men
who served the country should be well paid; and no class
of men knew better that it was the worst economy to
underpay valuable services, than those who were now
engaged in promoting financial reform—men who were
engaged in conducting trading establishments, and who
knew the value of good services, and that it was the worst
economy that could be conceived to give inadequate
remuneration for that service.—(Loud applause.) But
what those who were engaged in prosecuting financial
reform must insist upon was, that men should not be
paid for doing nothing at all, and that establishments
should not ba kept up beyond the country's necessity.
It has been said that the defence of the country re-
quires an enormous military and naval force, and that at
present no reduction can be made in these branches.
For his own feeling, although they could not
certainly know that the nations might yet hang up the
trumpet in the hall and study war no more, yet, un-
doubtedly there was a general inclination and a prevail.
ing love of peace and of brotherhood among all nations.
—(Applause)—and this was a feeling which they ought
to cultivate and endeavour to promote everywhere. He
felt that they were far more safe now from foreign foes
than they had been for many years; but he was con-
vinced that by keeping up a large army they rather
tended to keep up hostile feelings.—(Applause.) But
beyond this, it was not by maintaining a very large stand-
ing army that they could put themselves beyond the risk
of invasion, because that could never now be accomplished
by a coup de main.—(Hear, hear.) There were now no
hordes of Normans or of Danes to come upon them as in
ancient times. It would be the longest purse in the long
run that would ultimately gain; and if any nation were
inclined to attack or to interfere with them, they would
dread this country far more, and would be far more
unwilling to interfere, if they saw their finances were
in a satisfactory condition, and that they had got a
surplus revenue, than if they saw a standing army of
200,000 men crippling their finances, and alto-
gether preventing them from raising new taxes, if they
were required.—(Loud applause.) The truth was, that
it was nut the defence of the country that required their
present large war establishment. He did not believe
that the parties who said the present large army and
naval establishments were required really thought that
there was any danger to the country. What was it that
the statesmen of all parties wished ? They wished for
a large existing standing army and navy, in order that
they might be employed in any quarter of the world
where they wished to interfere, for the purpose of back-
ing their diplomatists in their intolerable intermeddling
between nation and nation—(Applause)—and between
the rulers of the nation and the people of the nation—a
course of conduct by which we have been intolerably
annoyed by all our rulers for generations past.—(Hear,
hear.) Just take the case which Mr. Chambers has put.
They had a fleet in the Tagus, and a fleet at Messina ;
and as if to show that there was no earthly principle in
the matter, that the only objeet which their rulers had
at heart was the insane desire of intermeddling in the
affairs of other countries, they found that the
fleet in the Tagus was stationed there to maintain
an absolute throne, and to put the people down, while
the fleet at Messina was to support the popular party
against the King of Naples.—(Loud applause.) Did not
that conclusively show that it was not for liberty and
monarchial Government that their rulers intermeddled,
but that it was from the insane desire to intermeddle
with other people's concerns.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted
that they would soon put an end to this evil. At all
events, the reduction of their standing army and their
navy would prevent their statesmen from interfering in
this way. It was now time that the people of this coun-
try were convinced of the folly of such intermeddling.
When they looked back for a period of a quarter of a
century, during which all the nations of Europe, and
this country along with the rest, co-operated to pre-
vent
France from choosing her own ruler, and
when they saw that after having succeeded in com-
pelling that nation to part with the man they
desired, and against whom we had, he might almost
say, an intense animosity, he thought they might
learn an instructive lesson, when they found that after
all the fearful expenditure of blood and treasure which
that occasioned, that very people had made choice of the
heir of that very man—(Loud applause)—and when
they saw that by universal acclamation the whole of the
people of France had elected him as supreme ruler, the
only difference being that if we had let things alone—if
we had not spent all that money and blood, and bad not
gone into a fearful foreign war which had desolated the
world, this individual would have succeeded as the heir
of his uncle in a quiet and orderly way, and in a manner
which he thought would have been far more satisfactory
to the parties who so determinedly resisted Napoleon,
than in having been elected by universal consent to rule
over them. The other object for which their great stand-
ing army and the navy was kept up was for maintaining
order in the colonies. Now, here again the reduction
would be attended with a great collateral advantage in
addition to a saving in our finances, namely, that it would
compel their rulers to administer the affairs of the colo-
nies in a manner far more enlightened, and far more
suitable for the interests of the people of this country,
and also for the colonies themselves. They had always
treated the colonies as foreign states to be managed for
us. They had excluded them from all foreign trade—
they had insisted on forcing a monopoly of their trade
on the colonies, and they had to give them a monopoly
in this country in return. That system was now ended;
and he trusted they would soon:see that they must treat
their colonies as young nations to be trained for as-
suming a position of independence as soon as it suited
the mutual interests and inclinations of both parties.—
(Cries of_" Hear, hear.") The first step that would lead
to this was, as far as possible, to leave the colonies to
manage their own concerns, and as a corollary to this,
leaving them to maintain the burden of their own in-
ternal administration. Now, if these two principles
were carried out—the non-intervention with other na-
tions, and a more just, liberal, and intelligent dealing
with their colonies—he had not the least doubt that,
without in the alighest degree affecting the means of the
country's defence, the standing army and the navy might
be reduced to such an amount as would remit a very
large portion of the excess of expenditure which had
taken place between 1835 and the present time.—(Hear.)
This would be a relief to the country from the fearfully
oppressive load of taxation under which it groaned.
Now, the importance of this no one could judge of. It
would be an advantage to the country, in adding to its
the
firmness, its stability, and its respectability in the eyes
of foreign nations, and it would be of farther advantage
to the Government itself, in enabling it to patronise the
removalte
theof
a commerce o liberal arts, and to promote internal improvements. In
addition to this, consider what an immense relief
h
ithe portion
y count r of. i
the 'taxes
was
e
an u obj give
of the utmost importance. The Learned
ntlensan then stated, that he conceived that the pres-
Sur? of taxation upon the h great mass of the tpeople had
an injurious effe t •
although be sin regard to their moral improvement,
Liverpool pin could • not go the length of thinking with the
Emend Association, that the main means of
elevating the Mass of the people of this country consisted
in a amaze in the mode of
taxation
valuable effect that would be
ro
dxuaetieodn.h Another most
taxation of the country was
by removing the strong feel.
tell!
ing and irritatioza that existed between s rolls
e
the different
roue of society. Iley ;should remove wU groulad» for

leading the people to suppose that the army, naval, and
civil establishments were not kept up for the welfare and
defence of the country, but for providing stations for
the younger sons of the aristocracy. As an earnest
friend of the aristocracy and of the constitution of the
country, he deprecated from his soul the existence of any-
thing that created intense irritation between the diffe-
rent classes of t1:10 community; and he conceived that it
was the duty of the aristocracy themselves, if they were
clear-sighted to their own real and true interests, to do
away with every real and apparent ground for irritation
and dislike on the part of the lower orders, and to make
common cause with them, and to show that they were
all members of the same community, and they were
willing to promote the common good.—(Loud applause.)
Then it was also of immense consequence that financial
reform should be conceded, in order to enlist the cordial
support of the great mass of the people in their existing
constitution. It was very painful to think that the pro-
posed reform did not come from their rulers.—(Hear.)
He had hoped that, after the passing of the lieform Bill,
the Government would have taken the initiative in mat-
ters of this kind, instead of compelling the country to
resort to agitation. He regretted, however, to say that
it was only by agitation that any relief had been ob-
tained; and they were now still compelled to agitate,
instead of having cause to rejoice in the circumstance
that their rulers were going before them in the march
of improvement.—(Hear.)
Mr. CHARLES COWAN, M.P., in a short address,
which our space will not allow us to give, urged that
petitions should be sent into the Legislature from all
parts of the country, and said that he would support
the movement in his place in the House of Commons.
Mr. JAMES TORROP then came forward from the body
of the hall to move an amendment in the shape of an
addition to the resolution, but on the suggestion of the
Chairman, he postponed it till he should hear the others
that were to be proposed, as the addition might be
thereby rendered unnecessary.
The resolution was then agreed to.
Councillor LAW moved the next resolution, to the
effect, that the existing system of taxation was unequal
in its pressure, and required very considerable modifica-
tions, to the relief of trade, and an improvement in the
general circumstances of the country.
Mr. W. Dustcex, S.S.C., in seconding the resolution,
which was agreed to, adverted to the inequality that
existed in reference to direct and indirect taxation; and
in particular referred to the smallness of the duty exi-
gible on landed property on the death of the proprietor,
as distinguished from personal property.
Mr. SIBBALD, Master of the Merchant Company, said
the resolution he had to propose was so simple and self-
evident that nothing was needed to be said in its favour,
and the substance was that they thought a different
mode of keeping the public accounts should be adopted.
Reference had been made by Mr. Chambers as to the
mode in which the tax accounts had been kept, and as
to their net getting a correct estimate of the real yield
of the taxes from the deduction of expenses, and from
their being saddled with pension grants, and so forth.
This not only concealed from the public the real amount
paid, but prevented the House of Commons from having
any control over the seven or eight millions. Tho ob-
ject of the resolution he was about to propose was to make
the country thoroughly understand the expenditure
and income of the nation, and which they could not do
according to the present mode. It was as follows:
" That besides the necessity for retrenchment, and a mo-
dification of taxation, it is very desirable to have a more
correct method of keeping the public accounts, by which
a clear debtor and creditor statement may be presented
to the country annually."
Mr. JAs. RICHARDSON seconded the motion. Let
them look for a little at the annual statement for the
year ending sth January, 1846. So as not to detain
them, he would talk of it by millions. The net revenue
was then 54 millions, of which the Customs collected
20} millions from 150 articles, at an expense of two mil-
lions. The Excise yielded, from the seven articles under
its charge, 14 millions, at an expense of one million and
a half. The stamps were seven and a half, the assessed
taxes four, the income-tax five and a quarter, and the
miscellaneous taxes two and three-quarter millions.
Now, let them see what was done with this money.
The national debt, as they were all aware, was
830,000,0001., the interest on which must be paid, and re-
quired 28,000,0001., and then the army, navy, and ord-
nance estimates swallowed up 17,000,0001. Then they
had a civil list, including the allowance to the Queen,
whom might God in heaven long preserve to reign over
them! This came to something like nine millions, but
what was all that compared to the fearful waste of 17
millions spent in the War Department, and that at a
time when they were at peace with all the world?—
(Cheers.) It was absurd thus to cherish the worst of all
feelings in the heart of man—envy and strife—forgetful
of the commandment, " live ye peaceably with all men."
They were told that their numerous possessions and ex-
tensive commerce required a large standing army; but
if they ruled their colonies on the principle of justice,
they required no bayonets to attach them to the mother
country; and for their commerce, as a British merchant,
he would say, in the words of the merchants of France,
when invited by a Minister of the Crown (he thought it
was Sully, in the time of Henri IV.), then to say how he
could aid them—" leave us alone." Let them live in
peace with all the world. Their flag was the flag of
peace—which all respected and welcomed wherever it
went.—(Loud cheers.)
The motion was then put and agreed to.
Mr. JAMES MACLAREN then proposed the fourth re-
solution :—" That it is expedient to form in Edinburgh
a Financial Reform Association, which, acting inde-
pendently of party, and without aiming at organic
changes, shall adopt all lawful and constitutional means
for effecting a thorough reform in the national financia.
affairs.

Councillor FYFFE seconded the motion, and after ad-
verting at some length to the dangerous situation of a
country whose revenue did not equal the expenditure ;
to the numerous new appointments made during the last
three years, and to
.those anticipated in the proposed re-
gistration bills, concluded by remarking, that when the
object of the association had been accomplished, the
springs of industry would be relieved, the toiling mil-
lions would find themselves supported and encouraged by
those above them, and the nation, with a heart buoyant
with joy, an eye beaming with light, and with an elastic
step which nothing would impede, would start onwards
in anew career of glory, happiness, and peace.—(Cheers.)
Mr. TORROP then moved the following addition to the
fourth resolution:—" In so far as they are consistent
with the maintenance of the establishments which are
essential to the safety, dignity, and integrity of this
great empire."_

- To this the LORD PROYOST said he bad no objection
but

Mr. DuNeer; M'LAREN, as well as the mover of the
resolution, opposed it, on the ground that it was quite
unnecessary, because its import was sufficiently im-
plied in the previous resolutions, and in the proceedings
of the meeting.
The motion was agreed to as it originally stood.
Mr. M'CarE moved the appointment of a committee,
which consisted of nearly all the gentlemen connected
with the city known to be favourable to the objects of
the association, of which committee William Chambers,
Esq., was appointed president.

Bailie MiI:VILLE moved a vote of thanks to the Lord
Provost, and the meeting separated.

MARKET INTELLIGENCE.
From the London New Price Current of Dec. 29.)
It will be perceived on reference to our annual
statistical statement, that the importation of Sugar from
the West Indies to this port has been less than in the
former year by 6,790 hhds, and 2,600 tierces and barrels,
there is an excess as compared with 1846 of 25,900 hhds
and 11,500 tierces, &c. Of Mauritius arrivals
do not come up to those of last season
by 97,700 bags, but there is an increase over
1846 to an extent of 53,000. The receipts of
Bengal and Madras are smaller than in 1847 by 37,700
bags, and the deficiency as compared with 1846 is
56,700. Of Foreign East India there is a deficiency of
79,600 packages as compared with 1847, but there is
very little difference in comparison with the year 1846.
From Havannah there is a falling off of 12,700 chests,
but an excess over 1846 of 38,060. Of Brazil the
quantity come to hand has fallen short of last
season by 1,700 chests and 2,100 barrels, &c, it is
greater than in 1846 by 3,300 chests and .50,000 barrels
and bags. Of Porto Rico 7,400 hhds &c. less have been
received in the former year, there is, however, an in-
crease over 1846 of 4,000. In contrasting the quantity
taken for home consumption with the former year, we
find that there is an increase in West India of 5,500
hhds &c., Havannah 23,200 chests, Brazil 2,800 chests
15,200 barrels &c., and Porto Rico of 11,200 hhds &c.;
there is a falling off to the extent in Mauritius of
108,000 bags. Of Bengal and Madras the diminution
amounts to only 16,700, and of Foreign East India to
16,600 packages. With the exception of West India,
Brazil, Porto Rico, and Havannah, home deliveries
this season are not equal to those of 1846. Not-
withstanding the low rates current there has
been only a limited export demand during the year,
and the quantity delivered for that purpose has been
less than in the former one-of Foreign East India by
60,000 pkgs, Havannah 25,000 chests, Brazil 3,000
chests, &c.' and Porto Rico of 3,000 hhds. The quantity
of Colonial taken has been trifling, differing little from
the former season; of Foreign and Foreign East India
the diminution, as compared with 1846, is nearly 20,000
-pkgs. Stocks in bond are -of West India 6,700
hogsheads, 4,000 trcs, &c., Mauritius 73,600 bags,
Bengal and Madras 35,000 bags, Foreign East
India 34,000 pkgs, Havannah 6,000 chests, Brazil 3,000
pkgs, and Porto Rico of nearly 2,000 hhds, &c., greater
than at this time last year. As compared with 1846
the stock is larger of West India by 25,000 hhds
9,700 tierces and barrels, Mauritius 128,000 bags, Ben-
gal and Madras 91,000 bags, Foreign East India
62,000 packages, and Foreign of 14,000 packages.
Colonial is cheaper than at the close of the former
on an average of 2s, and Foreign of is 6d per
cwt. With very little intermission quotations continued
to recede during the year, and ruled under the cost of
importation, but the cheapness of Sugar occasioned a
large demand both for grocery and refining purposes ;
the lowest quotations obtained for good and fine brown
Jamaica were 33s 6d to 345, but during the last two weeks
more firmness prevailed in the market, and this descrip-
tion realised 34s to 355. Appearances for the future with
respect to Sugar are considered to be of a satisfactory
nature, as prices rule low, dealers hold small stocks,
with the prospect of a larger consumption both in this
country and on the continent; imports to all appearances
will be less than in 1848, whilst money is cheaper and
abundant, with every prospect of low prices continuing
to exist for Breadstuffs and Provisions.

REFINED,—The market for Refined Goods has deci-
dedly an improving appearance, supplies continue to di-
minish, and as home trade buyers are desirous to ope-
rate, prices are en the advance; there is also much
firmness displayed on the part of holders, znd they insist
upon the following rates:—Brown grocery Lumps 47a
Gd por -cal; Standard Lumps 48s 6d; Tittlers, ordinary
470 64 to 4ss, middling Oa 6d to 49a, good 49s 64 $9