The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-16 00:00:00

01 the Committee tor six munths; but he should in
acbsequent stages give the Bill every opposition in his
Power.
already Lord J.
vr RUSSELL hoped that as the House had
declared its opinion of the merits of the Bill in
two divisions, the Committee would be permitted to be
proceeded, without further delay.—(Hear.)
the House then went into Committee on the Bill.
progress,
SIBTHORP moved that the chairman report
Tess, and ask leave to sit again.
h_.,nr• BANKES would be willing to support his Hon.
bud Gallant Friend in a division against the first clause,
'at trusted that he would not take the seemingly in-
tyhideloßuisii.course of dividing on a merely formal stage of
the gallery
persisted in dividing the House, and
to gallery was cleared. On our return we were in-
tlereA that no division had taken place, the mover of
amendment having been unable to obtain a teller.
b0"00, llon. and Gallant Member hastily bundled up his
„It: and papers and walked out of the House.
clause 1, appointing commissioners,
l • BANKES had an objection to this clause, which,
jecteed, involved the whole principle of the Bill. He ob-
tocce,cl generally. to commissioners appointed by Govern-
acc;', because—let them act ever so impartially—their
Ilions never gave satisfaction, being always suspected
of
bias. It had been so in the case of the commis-
:tiers under the Reform Bill, and also in that of the
uiliciPal commissioners. Besides, they never could
get „
men of much eminence at the bar to serve on these
ieacornissions, and the holders of the franchise would
oirdlY be satised be derived oit at the discretion
tvjtilfird or fourth rate legal practitiof ners.—(Hear.)
tion to this, they could never steer clear of the sus-
Pi 4,°,c of political bias.
ae SOLICITOR-GENERAL—The Lord Chief
Justice would nominate.—(Hear, hear.)
BANKES feared that under any circumstances it
ruinalci be impossible to remove suspicion from the public
the(l,• Admitting that the Chief Justice did appoint, he
'd not draw on the front ranks of the profession for
corn • • and
b— . mission, the consequence would be that the
;rioters chosen must be of interior status even to those
e° presided over the county courts, the latter being
p:jelanent, while the forme: were only transitory ap-
w-e'ctinents. Then the duties of these commissioners
re not clearly defined. They were to inquire and
reportunder
their opinions; that was to say, his opinion, for
• court;
the Bill one commissioner might constitute a
rt. It was said that the opinion of the commissioner
4'311(
to influence the House. If not, why' all this
Pe4 rand the expense to the country of five guineas
7 And here he had another objection. The
re,,
°ff remuneration would make it the interest of
the
barrister employed to delay the inquiry for as
si
long.lloil time as possible.---(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The
on se would then be in this dilemma—either the deci-
..
obis ould be final, and a borough might be disfran-
A ed on the dictum of a barrister of little or no stand-
iitS, or it was a nullity, and all the expense, trouble,
co' dela..
„t would go for nothing. By the third clause
giver
ccnnuaiesioner might hold a court, and he had powers
counthim greater than had ever been tolerated in this
e1t,17 siece the days of the star Chamber. The tenth
P°ie gave the commissioner indemnity on all legal
zo "1, but there were also such things as points of ho-
erou:' from which he could not be indemnified. He was
co empowered to summon parties before him, and he might
martlPel them to expose and denounce other parties with
ou °co he had been connected. This was a most invidi-
zenis licwer• He (Mr. Bankes) had once had occasion to
min' a banker before a Committee of that House, but
buyinggu received a private intimation that the party in
siset's,,,ti°4 would commit suicide if the summons were per-
-11.1,`" in, he gave up the notion. It might be said that
h-o had shrunk from his duty, but there were points of
Toted
which could not be got over. He entreated the Noble
c—`loll to withdraw his support from this Bill,end to adopt the.
1,4114r,5e be had himself originally suggested. Let him in
e"
?fie appoint a Committee of five, with powers to
ricTine witnesses on oath, and a decision would be ar-
-I,'en at calculated to satisfy both the other House of
arliarnent and the country.
ibis HANMER said that the course suggested in
la Bill had already been adopted in the case of Sud-
011r Y, and had received general approbation. The Hon.
• c 1 Learned Member for Dorsetshire objected to con •
41
bl,asinuers as likely to be influenced by political bias;
a
" ‘v from
Pleioa?—(Oh, oh.) He remembered one notorious
e C2"c---the borough of Nottingharn.—(Hear, hear, and
~..ea of .‘ Hull," and laughter.) Very well; he merely
mentioned the cases to show that Committees bad been
accused of political bias. He had watched the proceed-
ings at the various public meetings throughout the
country in support of Mr. Hume's motion, and though
4e had observed many opinions put forward as to the
condition on which the franchise should rest, the mode
sever taking votes and the duration of Parliaments, he had
•Jever seen that the constituencies of any borough in
Which such meetings had been held had declared that
they would commence the work of reform by
Purifying themselves of corrupt practices. There was
br
4"'° reason to suppose that the just pride of
„
electors could be offended by a strict in-
quiry in every case in which a constituency was now
misrepresented, not because of the death or resignation
of the late Member, but because bribery and treating
had. prevailed at the last election. It had been come
Plainer' that the commissioners would decide in accord-
ance with any bias that might obtain in their own minds,
but that was impossible; all the commissioners had to
do was to collect evidence and embody that evidence in
a report, and on that report it would be for Parliament
to act. He denied that the inquiry would be as expen-
' 147 e as some Hon. Gentlemen seemed to suppose.
Mr. ANSTEY believed that the reason why many
Gentlemen opposite supported this Bill was that
they believed it would have the effect of advancing one
of the objects of Mr. Hume's motion to disfranchise the
%mall boroughs. Not only did this Bill take away the
right of trial by jury, vesting the whole power in the
commissioner without any appeal, but it offered a direct
premium to perjury. The whole Bill was open to ob
Jections of a similar character. Treating and bribery
Were dealt with as if equally criminal, although
°lle Was opposed to the law both of God and man,
and the other comparatively innocent. The conse
clitenee of putting them in the same category would
to induce the poor man, who could see nothing
In
in treating, to view bribery in the same light.
• s•ti accordance with his pledge he should feel it his duty
I. )13Pose the further progress of this Bill.
lir. HUDSON contended that no sufficient case of
I°ll.liption had been made out by the Hon. Baronet to
,VtilY this measure, which proceeded entirely upon a
• of surmise. If treating were to be deemed a
~v 7,, ruPt practice, he saw no reason why they should not,
.`u equal reason, legislate against the influence of pro-
' Vt3', or even of eloquence, which, by falsifying the
'Vet, might lead men to a vote which, on calmer reflec-
en, they would regret. Its effect would be to intro-
tier' beartburnings in several towns, the effect of which
6414 be most prejudicial. The Honourable Member
.(kr
Montrose was anxious for household suffrage; if the
°llse wanted that, they had it in the freemen of some
to extinguish
boroughs ; but the object of this Bill was
extinguish that class of electors. He was well
citillainted with the virtues and merits of freemen,
ti ugh he was not returned by that class. It was said
the chief commissioner was to be named by the Lard
Chief Justice ; but he had actually heard the gentle•
fan already named by the promoter of this Bill.—
be'ear, hear.) He understood the appointment was to
given to the late Hon. Member for Bath.—(Hear.)
° know what it was to be examined for three days be-
t
cl. a Committee of that House on election matters, and
to
have his banking accounts rummaged over and ex-
r4(aed to individuals of the opposite party. Some such
which,
proceeding might take place under this Bill,
which, though only applicable to 12 or 13 boroughs,
Tight on a future occasion be applicable to 80 or 100.
his would be a precedent in the next Parliament,
When. Hon. Gentlemen opposite might perhaps be in a
cninority.—(Hear, hear.) The measure would perpetuate
ill•blood in half the towns in the kingdom; it would be-
come a perfect nuisance; parties bankrupt in fortune
and character would busy themselves in getting up these
Inquiries and fomenting discord, while the respectable
Classes would hold themselves aloof. Expenses the most
ruinous would be incurred; and this was not the way to
purify a constituency.—(Hear, hear.) The Solicitor-
• General, as the legal protector of her y Majest 's subjects,
ought to have taken care that no party was exposed to
such a heavy penalty.—(Laughter.) He hoped that
local authorities would mark their disapproval of the
. measure by refusing the use of their public buildings for
the proposed inquiries. He contended that the lower
Classes were no more open to corruption than others.

Lord J. RUSSELL had hoped, after the House had
consented to go into Committee, that the clauses of the
would have been debated in the usual mode of car-
rying on the business.—(Hear, hear.) He must own his
disappointment, after the House had assented to the
• second reading of the Bill, and after a long debate on the
question of going into Committee, the House having de-
cided on each occasion by a large majority in favour of
the Bill, that the whole question should now be argued
over again—not as to whether a formal inquiry should
he •
instituted in certain cases, but as to whether any Bill
c 1 this kind should be entertained at all.--(Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman who began the debate, had argued,
43 he very fairly mig ht have done in a speech on the
second reading that the inquiry ought tobe before a
Committee of 'that House; but the House having ap-
proved the principle of this Bill, and decided to go
n
-11 with it, it was surely wrong to recommence this
hadof oosition The Honourable Gentleman who
44 just sat down had certainly added little to the
1.1.4°43e, 8 means of judging of the clauses of the Bill.—
(Laughter.) He argued that bribery and treating ought
debe considered venial offences, and that a Bill for
tpeting and punishing them ought to be discouraged.
Vicar, hear.) His personal attacks on the Honourable
,w4oriet who had brought in this Bill ought not to weigh
,w one*
the House in considering the details of this mea-
*are
inrs --(Rear, hear.) He hoped the House would not
tia"ger discuss the general merits of the Bill. Whether
fording
of prosecuting inquiries, but not those of cle-
f nuing them, should be allowed, was a very fair question
tci:(l're the Committee, and he hoped that to such questions
jionareittee would address itself.
BANKES said a few words in justification of the
43,1;3e he had pursued.
rst4rGODSON wished to know, in reference to the
lieuted t clause, whether the Lord Chief Justice had con-
kission-eursac;ept the irksome duty of appointing the com •
had cons
HANIIER said that the Lord Chief Justice
meonsented to do so.
howrf. G°DSON—That being so, the question arose
•ar the House of Commons would consent to give
likEtLYe) t 8 jurisdiction. He thought it was bad policy to
blam the Lord Chief Justice interfere in political mat-
the '‘,44,d, he was afraid it would shake the confidence of
,Ir."s.Leiulnettricactothreyirinlegal tribunals. Besides, the clause
itself ; for whilst the appointment
7:- 141 commissioners was given to the Lori Chief Jas.
epse4tlll,rt.ho &rat instance, it WAS Zefterwards give* to the