The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-18 00:00:00

just sat down, was scarcely intelligible, at least to him. —( Hear,
hear.) He (the Noble Lord) had written a letter to his con-
stituents, and from that letter he ( Captain Layard) was led to
believe that the Noble Lord would have supported the measure.
The Noble Lord, the Member for Liverpool, had also made a
speech the other night in favour of the position of Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite, and yet he had said that he would vote in
support of the present measure. He was sorry not to
see the Hon. Member for Oxford (Sir R. H. Inglis) in
his place, who claimed the speech of the Noble Lord as his
own, and he (Captain Layard) thought he had every right
to it.—(Cheers.) Now, he must say, that the conduct of the
Noble Lord reminded him of a circumstance which had oc-
curred some years ago, at Nottingham. There was a man
there who had a vote, and a certain Hon. and Gallant Member
if he were present could confirm the statement which he was
about to make. That man, for the vote he had given at an
election there, was promoted to a choristership at Canterbury,
but when he came to sing he could not sing at all.—( Hear,
hear, and laughter.) So it might be said of certain Hon.
Members on the other side of the House :
A singing man, he could not sing,
No need to thank his patron's !Jena'? ;
Excuse me, sir, 1 cannot sing,
My voice is in another county.
—( Laughter. ) lie was delighted to find that the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Secretary for the Colonies, in spite of the
caustic speech which had been delivered by the Hon. Member
for Shrewsbury, was determined to vote in support of tree-
' trade.—( Hear, hear.) Arid what was the charge—the
grievous charge—that that Hon. Member had also brought
against the Right Hon. Baronet now at the head of her
Majesty's Government? Why it was this—that he sacrificed
party feelings for the good, for the glory, and for the happiness
of his country. —( Great cheering from the Opposition.) An
Hon. Gentleman on the other side of the House had also said
that rotten potatoes formed a rotten argument.—( Hear,
Lear, and laughter.) But what would that Honourable
Member say, in answer to the distressing statements
which had been laid before the House that night
by the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork (Mr. O'Conntll).
He had not intended to refer to this subject in consequence of
those statements. He would beg the House to consider those
statements most attentively, for they depicted suffering of the
most awful and grievous description, which was brought about
by the " rotten potatoes" alluded to by the Hon. Member in so
unmerciful and inconsiderate a manner. Ile held in his hand a
pamphlet which went to show that agriculture was benefited
by protection,and that it was a just measure. Now, he thought
with the celebrated expression of Mr. Cobden, that the system
of protection was one of mutual plunder between the farmers
anti their landlords—( Hear, hear)—and be had not heard
one argument from Honourable Gentlemen opposite showing
that such was not the case.—(Opposition cheers.) He could
understand the reason why so little money was spent in agri-
culture—it was -because of the uncertainty that at present
prevailed with regard to the corn-laws. Hon. Gentlemen on
the opposite side of the House had said that they preferred im-
mediate repeal to the present proposal of her Majesty's
Government. Well, then, the Bight Hon. Bart. at the head
of the Government had last night expressed his perfect wil-
lingness to accede to their wishes.—( Cheers and laughter.)
Tney had now, therefore, an opportunity of obtaining their
desires.—( Hear, hear.) They would certainly have a num-
ber of supporters on their own side of the House, and certainly
a very great number on his (Captain Layard's) own
side of the House.—( Great cheering and laughter. )
lie ever had confidence in his political readers, and he had
every reason to continue his support to their measures. They
had never betrayed him.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that
those leaders had ever acted rightly. He could safely say that.
he hail always the greatest reliance upon the Noble Lord
the Member for the City of London, and particularly
when he made that startling expression some time
ago, that " protection was the bane of agriculture."
Ile (Captain Layard) wished to ask Hon. Gentlemen opposite
how they could justly charge that Noble Lord with a sudden
change of his opinions upon the free- trade question, when he
had uttered such a sentiment as the above years ago?—
(Cheers.) For the reasons then that he (Captain Layard)
had stated, he should be happy to give the Right
Honourable Baronet at the head of the Govern-
ment his humble support. He believed that the present
measure was for the benefit of the country ; he believed that
that Right lion. Gentleman had made the greatest sacrifice
that any man could make for the good of his country.—
( Cheers.) He must say that be both honoured and admired
him for the sacrifice which he had made.—(Cheers)—and he
never in his life had given his vote with so much happiness and
so much contentment as he should upon this occasion.—
( Hear, hear.) Believing that it was for the good of the coun-
try—believing that every country would follow the bright
example which the Right Hon. Baronet had set them—( Hear,
hear)—believing, as he did, that it would strengthen and bind
in a link of unity and peace, which we must all desire and hope
for, the nations of the earth, he would give the proposal his
most hearty support.—(Cheers. )
Mr. G. PALMER said, lie did not hope by anything he
might utter to add any new argument in the discussion of this
question ; but he felt himself bound to express his opinions in
discharge of the duty which he owed to the individuals whom
he represented in that House. Those individuals were
most anxious to knew the result of the delibera-
tions of the House on this question, believing, as
they did, that on the result of those deliberations
depended their future prosperity or distress.—( Hear, hear.)
It was scarcely necessary to inform that House of the state of
excitement in the country on this question. They had seen
that numerous meetings had been held in different parts of the
country—almost in every county—to denounce the free-trade
measures of the Government, and they were almost all unani-
mous in their condemnation of the present measure.—( Cheers
from the protectionists.) For the purpose of showing the
quickness of the Right Hon. Baronet's change in favour of free-
trade, he would beg the indulgence of the House
whilst he quoted Hansard for a few moments. —( Hear. )
In the year 1814, the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her
Majesty's Government, in opposing the motion of the Hon.
ember for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers), avowed himself an
advocate for protection, on the groued of the peculiar burden
on land, and that that was a subject which he could not deal
with upon abstract principles, without regard to all the other
interests of the class. Upon these grounds he therefore gave
his unqualified opposition to the motion. It was by thus acting,
that he ( Sir R. Peel) led many persons to imagine that he did
not contemplate a change in a law which was settled only two
years before. He (Mr. Palmer) hail attended many meetings
in the country, and the general feeling was one of alarm at the
consequences likely to ensue from the adoption of this measure.
Toe question which was asked throughout the country
was, what grounds are there for the change proposed by
her Majesty's Government ? He had listened to a large por-
tion of the debate, but he had not heard any substantial
reason brought forward by the Government to account for
this change, excepting that melancholy statement of the
failure of the potato crop in Ireland. He could not hear the
statement made by the Right Hon. Baronet last evening
without feeling grsat alarm and anxiety. He did not think,
however, that the measures proposed were calculated to
remedy this grievous evil. The necessity of opening the ports
had been urged, but he did not think even that measure
would haVe alleviated the distress, unless the persons who
were suffering under the calamity had the means of obtaining
the corn thus -introduced. Hut he would not have
objected to any Bill of Indemnity which it might
have been necessary to have passed in this House, on account
of the suspension by Order in Council of the existing corn-
laws.—( Hear, hear.) He was not sufficiently versed in Par-
liamentary matters to know, however, that it was a necessary
consequence that the corn-laws should be totally repealed in
consequence of a temporary suspension of the measure. lie
remembered that the late Mr. Canning suspended that law,
and orders were given in Council for the admission of 5,000
quarters of wheat. A Bill of Indemnity was given to him,
but he (Mr. Canning) never thought of coming down
to the House and saying that he considered it
necessary to repeal the corn-law in consequence of that
temporary suspension. ( Hear, hear.) The principle of
protection seems now to be abandoned by the Government,
but they have given us no good reason for changing their
minds on the subject. He was however prepared still to
adhere to that principle. It was no new system; it had been
the policy of England for upwards of a century. He had read
in " The Lives of the Lord Chancellors" (a work written by
Lord Campbell) of Lord Chancellor Morton, who I.ved in the
reign of Henry VII., who considered that in a time of scarcity
corn should not be allowed to be sent out of the country. This
lie believed was the earliest case on record. It is
under this system of protection the country has
arisen to its present proud position. Mr. Huskisson
said that the produce of the country should be protected—he
cared tint how cheap corn was—and he said that in order to
ensure a continuance of the supply of cheap corn, w e must
ensure to the corn producer an adequate amount of protec-
tion. He (Mr. Palmer) did not agree in the demand which
had been made upon the Government for a compensation; he
did not look at the question in that light. The principle of
protection is in itself either right or strong.—( Hear, hear.)
If it is right, let us maintain it ; if wrong, the continuance
of the principle is wrong, unjust, and unfair, and we have no
right to grant compensation for the removal of that which we
admit to be unjust. That would be giving a premium to injustice.
The Right Honourable Baronet states that he has afforded ad-
tfa
en aaeaei
theds taoaf thems ns,gdtohoet
ndaat iwhnn
eehtgeasurunievbes
eleefcront
hr, t
.ett—hhhaea(t
daHnl
aineonatl iraoipinohpeneaaororftf.ut; thhietiomy:
heaafltawwas con-
sultings.
consi-
dered that ho had
their opinion, and that wasy also his opinion. As he said .
cobenforr,ee,ofhheis
spe consideredchona
called on to concur in. Theasll.7. Right measureii that he was not
i:ornser gon. Baronet, in the
occasion,riatistatefd that the alter-
ation he had then made had been no injury, but
rather was a benefit to all parties. P He instanced
in the price of cattle, meat, and other commodities. grgOvrrhsee
thought there were many other reasons why the rise in the
price of cattle had occurred, besides its being caused by a re-
duction on import duties. He thought the Right lion. Baro-
net could not take particular credit to himself for raising those
prices. Even admitting that those benefits hail occurred in
consequence of the measure that he had introduced, he
(11Ir. Palmer) thought it was a good argument for
not meddling any more.—( Cheers. ) He believed that the
constant meddling with those laws had occasioned more dis-
tchnetrtunerees
pro-
ceedingtress a rnomt t e
whatsoever. a g r ctuwl t
ausraln
octoumnmt
iul tai ibtoyutth atnh anythe
p
that the farmers, in consequence of the alterations made in
those laws in the year 1842, were recovering from the losses
which the agitation of that measure caused. The labourers were
much better employed, general prosperity was experienced by
all parties in the country, just at the period when the Right
lion. Baronet brought forward his proposition, which turned
the scale in a contrary direction.—(Loud cheers.) He
could, from his own personal experience, state that there
was a great stagnation in the markets of his own country. No
miller would buy any large quantity of wheat at present, but,
to use a common expression, was purchasing from hand to
mouth. The price may be as high now (he did not mean to
say it was not), but there was no business doing in the market
since that measure was announced. He knew per-
fectly well that it made a difference of 75., or
Bs., or 10s. to the mechanic, there being no trade
carrying on. Therefore he said it was a most unfortunate time
to bring forward such a measure. He (Mr. Palmer) should
like to ask anybody who took a fair view of the farmers' condi-
tion whether there was not greater improvement, mitre capital,
and more skill, now used by them, than there was twenty years
ago—whether the general cultivation of their land was not much
better than it was then—and, taking a full view.] of
the question, he could not believe that protection was
a bane to agriculture. He (Mr. Palmer) considered that they
ought to make themselves as independent of foreign supply as
possible. These were arguments which were supported with
great ability at one time in that House by some who had since
thought fit to change their minds. He would venture to read
a short passage to the House from the speech of
the Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary for
humbled
dsn' thgabetyet
this
the Home Department, on the subject of depending on
rfomoonraneifeeiotgarinsii nationsof
ni
great
countries,,r, e
latt foraßp Britain
itet, snduwdpt
oopwul
hlyadismobfl
eitckhhoearutnmpt.
iahisnge Right
ere! depending Hot
iworneyr., anda
state of siege. When the supply was withdrawn, and there
were many countries which would be glad to place us in
that position, what then should we do ?" That
was the opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J.
Graham) in the year 1839, on the question of our rendering
this country dependent on foreign nations for our supplies.
The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Go-
vernment says, a deficient harvest may involve them
in difficulties. If further calamities should arise then
they may lose their independence, for restrictive
duties were no security against a famine, The HoMse
would consider that those were good authorities who
I had spoken such language. A great deal had been said on the

• subject of labour, and he thought that it was one of the
greatest proofs that the question now agitating the public mind
was a labourer's and a farmer's question, by the tact that al-
most in every part of the country they would find very few of the
landed interest present at those meetings, which were entirely
composed of tenant-farmers, who feel that their interests are alone
involved in that question. The landlord was opulent, and it
would not make any material difference to himi; but the
tenant bound to a farm, from which he could not escape, was
placed in a very different position. Of the expenses attendant
on the cultivation of a farm, and the sums to be paid, the rent
was by no means the principal feature.—(Protectionist cheers.)
A difference of 10s. in the price of wheat would make a dif-
ference of one-half of his rent. Now, he did not mean to
say that he was a very intelligent man, but he thought,
while they were getting only an average price for corn,
that a measure ought not to be introduced which would
make a difference of one-half his rent—(Hear, hear)—
but he did mean to state that if there was a rise in corn, there
was also an addition to the wages of the labourer.—(" Hear,
hear," from the Opposition.) And to, when the price of
corn fell, in the same proportion did a reduction take place
in the wager of the agriculturists.-- (Loud cheering.)
When corn was low, as it was in the years 1822 and
I,ls—corn then averaging at 395. the bushel—the price of
labour fell, and it hail ever been his experience that the pecu-
niary difficulties of the farmer produced the worst results upon
the agriculturist, who appeared never to derive any advantage
from the cheapness of bread, though it might reasonably be sup-
posed otherwise. '1 he Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of
State for the Home Department, did not always entertain
the same opinion with respect to wages as he did
then ; he was not going to blame that change,
for he believed that it arose from sincere conviction—( Hear,
hear)—but he was going to quote from a speech delivered in
18e9 by the Right Hon. Baronet, for the purpose of strength-
ening the case which he (Mr. Palmer) was entfeavouring to
place before the House. The Right Hon. Baronet asked,
when he was addressing the parties who advocated a repeal of
the corn-law, " What was their object—was it to raise the price
of corn ? If it was, he would tell them that they would also
raise the price of wages. Was it their object not to raise the
price of corn?—if they des red a low rate of corn, he would
tell them at once that they also desired to produce a low rate
of wages."—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) These were the opi-
nions of the Right Hon. Baronet in 1839. He considered at
that period that diminished protection would throw large
quantities of land out of cultivation, and he (Mr. Palmer)
was not to be blamed if, in 1846, he adhered to the lesson
which he had learned from the Right Hon. Laronet then.
—( Hear, hear.) lie had already trespassed much too long
on the attention of the House, much longer than
he had intended, because he felt that the question had been so
long, so ably, and so successfully argued—(Cheers) that
he could add nothing to it. For his own part,
having no such convictions forced upon his mind as were
forced upon the Hon. Baronet, and entertaining an opinion
both of the justice and the expediency of maintaining the same
amount of protection to agriculture and the other branches of
native industry as had been maintained heretofore, he could
see no sufficient reason for the change now proposed to be
carried into law, and the Right Hon. Baronet must, therefore,
excuse him if he declined to follow him in the path in which
he wished to lead him.—(Cheers.) They had been told by
the Secretary at War (Mr. Sidney Herbert) that this was a
golden opportunity for settling the present question with
honour—( Hear, hear)—but he did not see how any question
could be settled with honour when it was to be done at the ex-
pense of political honesty.—(Loud cheers.) He had repre-
sented his constituents for many years, and he did not
believe that he ever was asked to give a single pledge as to
his course of condnet in that House. But he considered that
there was an implied understanding that he should endeavour
to maintain the law as it then existed, and he considered such
implication equally binding in honour as any pledge that he
could personally give, and it should never be said that he
deserted the interests of those who had sent him to that
House.— ( Hear, hear. )
Sir CHARLES NA PIER bad hoped that, after the elo-
quent and unanswerable speech of the Right HOn. Baronet
at the head of the Government, that lion. Gentlemen oppo-
site would have seen the propriety of bringing the present
debate to a conclusion.--(Cheers and laughter.) He could
not see what purpose they had in view by prolonging it.—
( Laughter.) The great complaint which Hon. Gentlemen
had to the Right Hon. Baronet was, that he proposed to
bring in a new corn-law, which he had done in consequence
of the failure of the potato crop in Ireland. lie (Sir C.
Napier) did not see why the Hon. Gentlemen should have
expressed such indignation at the change of mind which such a
course exhibited on the part of the Right Hon. Baronet.
He was not the only person. however, against whom this
indignation should have been evinced.—( Cheers.) The
Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department
had shown a similar change of mind.—( Cheers and laughter. )
The Right Hon. Secretary at War had followed in the wake
of the two Noble. Baronets.—( Roars of laughter.) The
Chancellor of the Exchequer had expressed a similar opinion,
anal other Hon. Gentlemen on the same side of the House.
He wondered that Hon. Gentlemen did not tax that (the
Opposition) side of the House with having changed their minds
also. They had shown a change quite as great as that ex-
hibited by the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Laughter. ) Did they
imagine they were to follow the example of country gentlemen
who ploughed the same horses now as they did twenty or thirty
years ago.—(Roars of laughter.) Did not the Right Hon.
Gentleman explain that so early as the Ist of November last
he proposed to open the ports and the only support which such a
proposition had in the Cabinet was from three of his colleagues ?
The Right Hon. Baronet then resigned. The Noble Lord
( Lord John Russell) was then called to the helm of affails, and
the Noble Lord also failed to construct a Government.—
(Cheers and laughter.) He (Sir Charles Napier) rejoiced
that the Noble Lord had failed.—(Laughter.) The Noble
Lord had done so in an uncertainty as to how many of the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite would have come over to his opinions, and
under the circumstances he was perfectly justified
in declining to undertake the Government.—( Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord the Member for Newark asked why the Right
lion. Baronet did not open the ports now. Had this been
the case, and had the Right Hon. Baronet proposed the im-
mediate opening of the ports, he would hive met with the
same reproaches, and the same complaints would have followed.
—( Hear, hear.) He ( Sir C. Napier) thought that the Right
Hon, Baronet was perfectly right in the course he had adopted
under the circum•tances. He believed the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet would much sooner have the immediate repeal of the
corn-laws than that they should be protracted for three years
longer, but he sincerely believed that tint Right Hon. Baronet
had gene as far as he could go.—( Cheers and laughter. )
But if they ( the Opposition side of the House)
fell into the trap which the Honourable Gentlemen
opposite had laid for them, with respect to the
immediate opening of the ports, they would defeat the measure
entirely.—( Hear, hear. ) He therefore hoped and trusted
that they would abide by the proposition of the Hon. Baronet,
though it might riot reach the full limit of their desires.—
( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, the Member for Newark,
also proposed, that before they concurred in the measures
which had been proposed, that they should appeal to the coun-
try. Now he (Sir C. Napier) would ask, was that a time to
make such an appeal, when Ireland was in a state of starva-
tion—when the public tranquillity was in imminent danger of
being disturbed ? Ard Hon. Gentlemen opposite knew that
such a state of things really existed?—(Cheers, and cries of
" No, no.") The consequence which would follow the carry-
ing out of the proposition of the Noble Lord would be, that
t _ehNTra
(h)cd
heNee
ausorLtrb:ncl Noble
sdwLp
hear.
heot
the
speak
acmNwlnswao
stbtathlyteehesr
eshsLuwernoei 9:Jl.o:Leis
al
subject.—(Roars
become
_iproposedd i(n extraordinarygß.osaesrtatsoli
et lcanwf
co ob
accept man
speemt.
—aat
laughter.)nh(fia_Ctx everfixed
dLe edaTruus
Laughter)--hut
hy:ee.
The Noble Lord, therefore, was as mush in fault as the Right
lion. Baronet. The Hon. Baronet was influenced in his
change of mind by a regard for the public welfare, but the
Noble Lord was influenced by self-interested motives and from
a desire to keep his rents higher.—( Cheers, and cries of " Oh,
oh.") He would tell the House what he believed to be the
the
desire
e rRt,
cthoinegthpsi
idea
as(sßctthhihnaae.rredritsyhß,
eoaa
nnreodffnmeceeortrni
cries
si
truth—(Uproar)—and he was of opinion that there would not
have been such an opposition to the measure of
would
,ntd,htoleheyehm,
tewocnheoro.
se,p7,oensainlttte reduction. iarns
H pnercects
con-
sidered, inds.
twtteie:
sttoioirf,i
je,teur,hhes
Rtaiwii
t,iershehi
hi
:coat
which,
dvni eifdurao
under
rde.
r,
eneßrtvhfaeorainot.tohmt
netehder ettcihrti erei
nefwHur
homeoimrsnse
t.saapcsAneesicereeeteramsht nbniotegfrl
astffeelings which some-
times crept into the human heart, which blinded it to a sense
hotro wouldsneNi
night,
at once
Northampton;
aace
midpavpldeetorsorneot
adverted
and he had verylopnrgopseprel
eye
haensi mo
na d vrhe ret eodrhuepr osni
diet .
of Nt
hoewHi fo,nisne-st,
were to give long leases, their tenants would
eoand.
‘f
emma
bk
ei
ag
not suffer half so much, even according to their own argu-
ments, as they otherwise would from this measure.--( Hear,
hear.) If they were to go down into Scotland, they would
see the improvements in agriculture there. They would see
them thrashing corn there by steam, instead of by men and
horses. jt might appear strangely singular to Honour-
able Members fur a sailor like him to give them
such advice, but he was a farmer himself. It was
true he was a farmer upon a small scale—so much the worse
for him.—(Laughter.) lie took a farm about two years ago
of forty acres, and he wished he could have afforded to take
more.—(Continued laughter.) It was now fourteen years in
cultivation, arid, up to the time he had taken it, it had produced
nothing. His predecessors could grow nothing, the soil was
a barren one, and in fact truly unfortunate All who had taken
it up had most signally failed. He had not been on it above
a year before he had lost 1001. clear money.—( Laughter. )
His next door neighbour was a p or fellow, but he was a good
fellow ; he had no money, but he managed to live very
well. He ( the Honourable Baronet) said to him,
Well, old fellow"—(Laughter)—he said to) him,
Well, old fellow, how islt you get on—you haven* money ? 'tis
true, you have but a wife and a pony—how is it you manage to
do so well ?" I said, " I have money, and have spent it on my
land, and yet can produce nothing but a loss."—(Laughter. )
Well, Sir," said he, " my advice to you is, to dig up all your
ditches, and then to go eighteen inches with your plough, and
then sow your seed." lie had followed this advice, and he
grew the next year eleven acres of oats all good and marketable.
Now, by following this advice—by making all those improve-
ments, of all this farrow land he had but fourteen acres which
did not produce an abundant crop. On much of this farrow
land, he could assure the House, that he had grown
inlapnrodsewdoussldstepwrodoufce corn,. and
tat nips as large as the heads of many of the
lion. Members advocating the protective interests of the
other side of the House. He bad no doubt that he would be
able to grow one thing after the other till at last he would
agriculture.
an
If Hon. Members who made such outcry against the in-
roads
—he thought a new course was
with such improvement
favourable gam. He had taken up
thisgrow would retches,
be
do
speeches, they would .
lwell, and the result
of agriculture, would but get down their ditche,st,nasitiedasdoowf
eeryold tack had been worn quite
the after which
resultdaaccordance
:,cef
athnei
their corn in
amwonaokelwidngpbaetrhntoosienlolsots;inis
disc
uocfhtiotaf thatpart
yparfetyelifnegelihnagd,
very necessary,
threadbare, and he thought 1 • d appreciale
Hon. Members would
would be, that they would vote for the measure before the
the course he laidgbdausotwatnhufeor'i°their guidance, and that the result
his opinion in unison with theirs.
Fiouse.—( Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. F. SHAW said that, in speaking on the present mea-
sure,a u he
eh
wouldhens
for years acted had left him but one alternative, either to
u sr allow
confess
The measure before the House was one of all others which
keep silence, or to verify
would do great and incalculable, injury to Ireland. The
that
hhaet had
dc
debate had taken a new turn. The lion. anti Gallant
Member haul introduced that change in the debate.
Many of those who bad risen on the subject had said they
would vote for the measure, but many of those who had also
risen said they would vote against the motion. The Noble
Lord the Member for Liverpool said that the measure, though
he would not dote against it, if it should be carried, would
disappoint those who had brought it forward, and placed such
reliance on its results, and he (the lion. Member)
was of
opinion that it would disappoint the public generally. He thought
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Ministry
had no right to say that the Noble Lord (Lord Ashley), who
had resigned his seat, was in favour of the measure, because he
had so resigned, instead of voting for the measure. The Hon.
Member for Liverpool, who had said that the Measure would
be of the greatest injury to the interests of
this country was animadverted upon in the speech of
the Right Hon. Baronet, who held it as a right that those who
held opinions contrary to the Right Hon. Baronet, had a right
to express themselves to that effect on that question. without
being aubjegt to attack. The Noble Lord the Member for the
West Riding of Yorkshire had said, that those who had advo-
cated the protective interests in that House were broken up as

a pareet tshhisonwlatis nof necessityotvery surprising, considering the great
be in that position. They
changes -which had taken place in the principles of public men.
were no disagreeing amongst themselves. 'I hey were with-
Indely,
out any settled kind of action ; and though they were undis-
ciplined and unofficered, they were still undismayed. —( Cheers. )
What they believed to be the cause of the good and the just, was
one from which they would not become dissenters ; and, with
God's help, they would be loyal and true to the end. His Right
Hon. Friend had, he conceived, taken undue steps in reference
to the failure of the potato crop in Ireland. He (Mr. Shaw)
had already stated that he would approach that question with
great caution, for he was willing to admit its importance.
He was ready to admit that the time of periodical distress
was approaching in Ireland; but he would contend for it that
the statements upon the subject of the failure of the potato
crop had been greatly exaggerated. He had visited various
counties in Ireland, and he bad received communications from
persons in the provision trade, such as contractors for supply-
ing the gaols and workhouses, and other public institutions,
with this article of fo d. He had also carefully watched the
state of the markets ; and the result of all those measures of
procu:ing information on this subje tended to show that
there would undoubtedly be a deficiency of the potato
crop in some arts of Iceland, but that in a great
majority of districts the crop would be an average
crop, and that much of the deficiency complained
of had been owing to a glutting of the market upen
the first rumours of the suepased famine.—( Hear.) He did
not mean to dwell at any further length upon this topic;
and he would leave it now by expressing the satisfac-
tion he felt at having observed the encouragement given
to the employment of the labouring classes in Ireland
this sessions by the temporary expedient for meeting this tem-
porary evil. Ile knew it would be a waste of time to dwell
upon it now, but he thought he was warranted in saying
that it was a subject of wonder to many that his Right
Honourable Friend could have recommended such mea-
sures without a more mature consideration of the pro-
bability of a worse state of things than they had any
real reason to apprehend. It was only the other day he
had heard the (tight Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for
the Home Department. state, in answer to a question from
the Hon. Member for Rochdale, in reference to that clause in
the Poor-relief Act affording out-door relief, that he was de-
cidedly adverse to any alteration in the established system.—
( Hear, hear.) This certainly did not word with the lately
avowed principle of the Right Hon. Baronet; and he did
think that the impetus that had of late been given to employ-
ment in this country by the railways, had been very unfairly
kept out of view by her Majesty's Government. There
was, no doubt, a great deal that was plausible in the Govern-
ment plans. But he begged to remind the Right Hon. Baronet
that Hon. Members on that side of the House were not quite
so unlearned as he seemed to think in the doctrines of Adam
Smith.—( Hear, hear.) They all knew that those doctrines
were very fine, and world be very fair and reasonable if they
could persuade other countries to adopt them also. But they
should take into consideration the national debt, the com-
plicated interests, and the very many other peculiar circum-
stances of this country, its well-being, and its prosperity, is
considerir g this measure.—( Cheers. )
" A thousand years scarce serve to form a state,
An hour may lay it in the dust."—(Cheers.)
From whom had they so frequently and profitably learned
these lessons of practical wisdom, as from those very mon who
would now have untaught them all ? The speech of his
Right Hon. Friend, delivered the other night, was in fact a
free-trade speech, unqualified by any of those exceptions which
he had been so strenuous a supporter of for the last
few years. It was not upon the ground of the petitio
principii that he had put these measures for-
ward, nor had they been suggested by an anxious
anticipation of the state of things in Ireland, which had been
so much dwelt upon. It did appear to him (Mr. S.) that,
for the last thirty years, the Right Hun. Gentleman appeared
to think he had been wrong, and that it was only within the
last four weeks he had been set right by the speeches of the
Anti-Corn-law League.—( Cheers. ) He (Mr. S.) regretted
that he had not the eloquence or the arguments of his Right
Hon. Friend to enable him to dwell upon the subject as he
could wish, for if he had lie would endeavour to exhibit to the
House in its proper position the fact that the words of the
Right Hon. Gentleman upon this measure, upon former occa-
sions, were now in the actual process of being eaten at that table.
—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the
Home Department (Sir J. Graham) had tried to gulp all his
at one swallow.—( Cheers.) But that was too much even for
the stomach of the Right Hon. Baronet—( Cheers and laughter)
—and it quite overcame the nerves and gravity of the House.
—( Cheers.) No, it would not do for the Right Hon. Baronst
(Sir J. Graham) now to talk of " abrogating his inheritance"
rather than wring his wealth from the poverty of the poor
man. Was that, then, what the Right Hon. Baronet was
doing for the last thirty years of his life? That assumption
was really the begging of whole question.—(Hear, hear.)
Did the Right Hon. Baronet think that even the poor rustic
labourer was so simple as to be taken in by that statement—
recollecting who it was that, as it were only the other day, so
poetically described—
" The breezy call of incense-breathing morn,"
as compared with the " sad sound of the factory bell," and
drew the pathetic contrast between "the blooming garden
and the foul garret,"—" the innocent walk of the country
Sabbath, and the debauchery, the sorrows, and the sins of
the crowded manufactory"—( Cheers)—who spoke of " sinking
hearts and rebelling hands ;" and asked where were the
moralists that they did not lift their voices against those fearful
consequences ?—(Hear.) Ave, but where was the moralist
now, when the Right Hon. Baronet was himself proposing to
perpetrate a cruelty which he then described as " far more
atrocious than sending the Poles to Siberia ?"—(Cheers. ) The
House might depend upon it that those changes of opinion
by the Members of her Majesty's Government would be
appreciated as they deserved, and traced to their true source.
But, to pass from those six-months' converts to those who were
not converts as many days, he would first come to what ap-
peared to him to be the most inexplicable and unexplained part
of the question—he meant the colleagues of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, who first raised an alarm by retiring from office be-
cause they disapproved of the measure introduced, and then, in
six or eight days subsequently, turned round. —(Cheers ) It
was contended that they were all honourable men.
He knew the majority of them, and he believed
such to be decidedly true; but that was not
enough, for the public had a right to require
every explanation for the acts of public men.
But these gentlemen had set the very worst precedent ; as a de-
parture from sound principles to meet particular cases of emer-
gency was invariably adopted by bad men for their own pur-
poses.—( Hear, hear.) He asserted that it was not alone for
their own country's sake that the principles of their public men
should be fully intelligible; they should be intelligible to the
men of all other countries—they should not alone be suited for
the present age, but for history also.—(Hear, hear.) There•
fore, while he did not throw the slightest aspersion on the private
character of any gentleman, he should say that the conduct of
many Honourable Members remained to be explained, and
lie believed the public of that country, and the discriminating
public of every other country, would consider their conduct as
an evidence of imbecility of mind, and as a political tergiver-
sation unprecedented in English annals.—(Loud cheers.)
Would not France draw a striking contrast between the consis-
tency and firmness of her first Minister—whose object was to
consolidate the power and extend the empire of his Sovereign—
as compared with the opposite qualities exhibited by the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Ministry ?—( Hear,
hear.) And, looking to their relations with America, they might
flatter themselves with the notion that by the enactment of mea-
sures of a free-trade nature, they could bribe her to peace,
but was the present the moment that the Ministry should
select to display their want of spirit, and their crouching with-
drawal before the pressure of blustering and clamour?—( Hear,
hear.) Ue firmly believed that the present Ministry would
be handed down to posterity as the greatest political cowards
that ever held the reins of Government.—(Protectionist
cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for
the Home Department not only spoke with all the zeal of a
political neophyte, but also acted as one ; and he (Mr. Shaw )
could put no other construction on the speech of the Right
Honourable Gentleman but that, for the sake of peace
and order, he had discarded the support of a great party
which comprised the rank, the wealth, ay, and he would say,
whatever Hon. Gentlemen opposite might think, the intelli-
gence of the country.—( Oh, oh, and protectionist cheers. )
Yes, for the sake of saving them and the country from ruin,
the Right Hon. Baronet threw himself and the Government
into the hands of the Anti-Corn-law League and the Repeal
Association of Dublin.—(Cheers and counter cheers.) .But
the lesson would not be lost in Ireland. He had observed, that
Mr. Smith O'Brien, a gentleman for whom he entertained in
private the highest respect, though he differed with him in
politics, had pointed out the present concession as an
harbinger of ultimate success for the Repeal Association.
He was an enthu'iastic gentleman, and would profit by the
concession. He should declare that, if in two years hence he
should see Sir Robert Peel, under the pressure of agitation,
introduce some modified plan for a repeal of the Legislative
Union, lie would not be so much astonished as if any man
had told him, two years since, that he should witness
the introduction of a measure like the present.—
(Cheers.) The measure would have a most dangerous
effect, and would be a further inducemeut to the
repealers of Ireland to persevere in their determination.
When he heard his Hon. Friend last night threaten those
gentlemen representing the agricultural interest to give them
total repeal, he thought it was not very worthy of the Right
Hon. Baronet, arid he did think that it showed his instability
and his infirmity as a public man. The Noble Lord the Member
for London had spoken of his party the other night, and
gloried in •he share they had in bringing forward this mea-
sure. He (Mr. Shaw) owned, that when he heard
the Member for London state the means that been adopted
in order to carry this measure be thought that the Noble Lord
spoke in bitter irony.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches. )
Let what would result from the measure—either failure or suc-
cess—let it bring either weal or woe to the interest of this
country, neither honour nor glory would ever be associated
with the means that had been adopted to bring it about.—
(Cheers from the Ministerial side.) It was well known to
men of every system of politics that this proposed measure had
given a shock to public feeling and confidence which rever-
berated through every portion of the Queen's empire, and had
injured all confidence in the Government. When the Noble
Lord, the Member for London, spoke'of the satisfaction he felt
in the measure, he must have felt well satisfied to look at that
side of the House, to see their broken ranks—to see the Right
Honourable Baronet, with the very weapon with which
he had effected the overthrow of the Noble Lord, now com-
mitting a sort of political suicide—(Cheers from the Minis-
terial side)—to see the man who had formerly commanded in
the House, and driven the Noble Lord from his position, now
supplicating the Noble Lord for support.—( Hear, hear.) He
(the Right Hon. Baronet) was humbly supplicating the Noble
Lord to uphold the existence of his Government.--(" Oh !"
from the Opposition.) Well, then, those gentlemen who cried
" Oh, oh," could not at least deny that the Government of the
Right Hon. Baronet existed on the sufferance of the Noble
Lord. When he thought of what that party was years
ago, when the Right Honourable Baronet was at its
head, and contrasted its then position with what it was
now, he could not help declaring that be was sorry
that his political life had lasted until he had seen that day.
He considered the course adopted
by the Right Hon.
Baronet, or, as he trusted he might still call him, his Right
Hon Friend, to be ruinous.—( Loud laughter from all parts
of the House.) He entirely acquitted him of any motive
besides the one he claimed for himself, viz., a strict sense of
public . duty.—(Cheers.) —(Cheers ) Whatever his (Mr. Shaw's) opinion
might be of the Right Hon. Baronet's political conduct, he
never thought that be was actuated by any but a good feeling.
He would conclude by addressing to the Right Honourable
Baronet the words which, many years ago, on a
similar occasion, he (the Right Honourable Baro-
net) had addressed to the Member for London—" You wish to
induce us to follow principles in which there are nothing but
varying counsels—divided colleagues—statements of facts that
cannot be reconciled—arguments leading to opposite conclu-
sions. We cannot surrender our judgment to throw down the
protection now eeisting as a security to agriculture, tc try in
an agricultural lottery, in the vain hope of drawing out a prize."
—(lmmense cheering. )
Mr. BRIGHT said that the Hon. Member who had just
resumed his seat, and other Members on the protectionist side,
should have learned by heart the speeches delivered by the
Right Hon. Baronet and the Right Hon. the Home Secretary.
—(" Oh, oh," from the Ministerial side.) If these speeches
had been correctly committed to memory, some two 'Members
might have delivered them to the House, and have saved much
time and trouble, arid a good deal of repetition. He had hoped
that when the Honourable Member for Bristol moved the
amendment the principle of protection was about to be discussed,
The question really to be considered was the repeal of the corn-
laws, and not the party quarrels on the opposite side of the