The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-12 00:00:00

IRISH PRISONERS.

On the motion ortielVlarqiiisOf(3i.ANßlCAßDE, the
Pzisonors (Ireland) Bill went through Committee.
GRAND JURY LESS. _ _

On the motion of the same Noss Loan, the Grand Jery
(Ireland) Assessor Bill went throu:th Committee.
FLOGGING IN THE ARMY.

Earl FORTESCUE presented a petition from the inhabit-
ants of Devon, praying for the abolition of flogging in the army.
He did not altogether concur with every prayer in the petition,
but he rejoiced to learn by the declaration of a Noble Friend
of his in another place that there was to be a restriction of this
sort of punishment. He trusted that the Noble Duke, whom
he now saw in his place (the Duke of Wellington), would in
time be ready to give his assent to those views which would
look to an early abolition of this punishment. He would take
this opportunity of stating that, having been long
acquainted with the officer whose name had been prominently
brought forward in this matter, it was only fair to say that that
officer was the son of a eountry gentleman in his neighbour-
hood, who had a large family to bring up on very small means.
That officer, from the possession of but little more than his re-
gimental pay, had been unable to obtain any of his steps in the
army except by merit, and he, therefore, thought that all fair-
ness ought to be shown to him. Certainly he was the last
person in the world to commit an unnecessary, not to say a
wanton act, of cruelty.
The Earl of RADNOR presented petitions to the same
effect, in the prayer of which, however, he could not altogether
agree.
Lord BROUGHAM would allude to the motions which he
had made in 1811, 1812, and 1813, which were attacks upon
flogging, and he did not hesitate to say, that although those
motions had led to much debate, he had, upon deliberate
converse with the Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington)
and with his Noble Friend opposite, come to the con-
clusion that it was necessary to alter his opinion.
Nothing could be more wrong and unjust than the strictures on
the colonel in the late affair, who was far from rigorous in his
general demeanour to those under his command.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, he had no doubt what-
ever that there was not the smallest ground for blame on the
officer who had just been alluded to (Colonel Whyte) in
the unfortunate transaction that had recently taken
place. He had no doubt that this punishment should
be diminished in the greatest possible degree. When he had
the honour to have the command of the army he made every
effort to diminish punishment, and that had been the principle
of all the best commanding officers ever since he commanded a
regiment. But the fact was, that it would be impossible to carry
on discipline in the army without some punishment of this de-
scription. That had been found tobe the case where it hadbeen
discontinued, namely, in the West Indies, where it was found
necessary to re-establish it, owing to the absolute impossibility
of carrying on discipline without seine punishment of this
description. In concert with the feeling of Government, of
Parliament, and of the public, he had thought it his duty to
give an order to diminish greatly severity in the army.—
( Hear.) With the arrangements that might be made in future
and the alteration of the law, it was his hope that it might be
still further diminished, so far as to lead to its entire dis-
continuance. But, if they were to have an army, they
must have it in a state of discipline, they must have
it in a state of subordination and in obedience to society. Their
Lordships must recollect that the country did not like an
army under any circumstances, nor would it bear any but the
best troops in every part of this country in which they were
employed. In order that the troops should be of service to this
country, it was necessary to have a perfect state of discipline
and subordination. He could assure their Lordships that, in the
performance of their various duties, they had ths best troops
in the world. They were constantly required to attend
embarkations of convicts from this country to Australia. These
convicts, whom they had to attend constantly, sometimes
amounted to between 300 and 400, and he did not recollect
a single instance of misconduct on the part of any non-com-
missioned officer. Now this was goingon every day. He wished,
however, to entreat their Lordships to believe that they
could not have an army deprived of discipline,
subordination, and good order.—( Hear, hear,) He repeated,
that he trusted that such a decrease of punishment would
take place in the army as would lead to its entire abolition.
The Duke of GRA FTON said he wished to ask the Noble
Duke if the soldiers who had behaved so decorously had been
promoted for their services?
The Duke of WELLINGTON answered in the affirmative.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.

Messengers from the House of Commons brought up certain
Bills.

ABUSES OF THE FACTORY SYSTEM.

The Duke of BUCCLEUCH said that he had a petition to
present from the inhabitants of Ashton-under-Lyne, signed
in public meeting assembled, with reference to the trial and
conviction of eleven children, for having absented themselves
from their work for half a day. Many of the poor children had
been imprisoned with hard labour, and all of them were im-
prisoned with felons, and the most abandoned characters.
The petitioners stated that such circumstances were of fre-
quent occurrence in the manufacturing districts, and they
prayed Parliament to take some steps to prevent their repeti-
tion. The petitioners called the attention of the House to
the fact that two boys of thirteen years of age were put upon
the treadmill with two boys of fourteen and fifteen years re-
spectively.