The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-27 00:00:00

GROUP XVII.

The Committei met this morning at twelve o'clock. The Hon. E.
Yorke in the chair.

MA.NCHESTEIt AND SOUTHAMPTON AND
sOUTII WESTERN (ROMSEY AND REDBRIDGE BRANCH).

Mr. James Griffin, of the firm of Griffin and Co., was then called
and examined by Mr. HATHERTON—Has a yard at Redbridge,
and has supplied the Government with foreign and English timber.
Iteceives a great quantity of timber from America and the Baltic.
Sends a good deal of timber from Redbridge to Salisbury by land
carriage which he should send by this branch.
The CHAIRMAN intimated that the Committee were satisfied that
there was a good deal of traffic between Redbridge and Salisbury. It
would therefore be unnecessary to multiply evidence on this point ;
_ _

at the same time they would be glad to hear evidence as to the cost
of transit and the saving which the line would enact.
Examination continued—The cost of sending a ton of timber
from Redbridge to Salisbury was 10s. ; by the line it would be
about half that amount. The London, Salisbury, and Yeovil line, if
made, would be of considerable advantage, as it would promote the
timber trade with the west of England and take inland goods for
exportation and bring foreign goods back.
Cross-examined by MeR. GURNEY.—Timber landed at Southamp-
ton was floated up to Redbridge, and the expense of floating up 50
loads, which would require the assistance of two men, would be 10s.
Small quantities were not floated, but conveyed by land carriage.
Now pays Is. per load per mile for the conveyance of English timber.
The railway charge is 4d. The expense of floating a load up to
Redbridge was 4d. or 6d. The drafting was not more than ld. a
load. Was not aware that the Manchester and Southampton sought
powers in their Bill to charge no more than 1 a load. If they
did this, the only additional charge would be 6d.
Do you think you could sell it cheaper by floating it than the
merchant at Southampton ?—We should be able to do so at Red-
bridge, but not at Salisbury. Could not name any other place
where he could sell it cheaper.
By Mr. SATIINrDERS—The South-Western terminus is about a quar-
ter of a mile irom the docks, by water more than half a mile. The
Manchester and Southampton terminus is near the public quays.
The witness, in reply to Mr. awls, said timber could not be
floated up to Redbridge during the ebb and flow of the tide, or during
the prevalence of heavy gales, except a south-east wind.
By the CHAIRMAN—A line from Redbridge to Romsey would be of
infinite advantage. If he had a large quantity of timber at South-
ampton he should float it up to Redbridge as now ; perhaps he should
send small quantities by the railway.

The CHAIRMAN said—Perhaps the promoters of the line were de-
sirous to know the opinion of the Committee with respect to their
project. It was quite clear that somebody must construct it, be-
cause such a line would be of particular benefit to inland traders, and
to traders at Eling ; but the promoters had only proved this fact by
evidence from the two extremities of the line:Romsey:and:Redbridge ;
but Eling and Redbridge are situated on an estuary, to reach which
various expenses had to be incurred—river dues, pilotage, and various
things,which of course increased the cost of transit. The Committee had,
however, to look not simply to the public or local advantage, but to
the greatest public advantage which it would afford. Now, as he
had said, they had only proved this by those locally interested. They
wanted more general and extended evidence than that which had up
to that time been exhibited to them.

After the examination of several other witnesses, the Committee
adjourned till Thursday, and on Friday they will adjourn to the
Thursday following.

GROUP XVIII.
The CoMmittee met this morning; Mr. B. Denison, chairman.
EXETEl2,ynovxxa, AND DORCHESTER AND
LONDON, SALISBURY AND YEOVIL.
The CHAIRMAN announced, that he had received two letters, which
had been very improperly addressed to him, as chairman of this
Committee. He would hand them over to the Committee's clerk,
and hoped that the publicity which would be given to this transac-
tion would prevent a repetition, for the future, of any such improper
Conduct. It was decided by the Committee, that they would only
hear two engineers on each side of the line—a Committee having
recommended that course he would adopt their recommendation.
The examination of Mr. Vignoles was then proceeded with, but in
consequenee of the previous instruction of the Committee was not
extended to any length, and embraced no new features on the
evidence of Mr. Lester, given before the Committee yesterday.
Lord Morley and Lord Vivian were then called. who gave evidence
in favour of the line, as being a more direct and shorter route to
London, and affording greater accommodation to the intermediate
districts than was given by the existing lines.
Mr. Tite, land surveyor and architect, was then called, who proved
the quantity of land required for the construction of the railway.
Mr. S. Herbert, Secretary at War, M.P. for South Wiltshire, proved
the great necessity of railway accommodation in the districts through
which the railway proposed to pass. He considered, both in his pri-
vate and official character, that it was advisable that there should
ho a continuous line of railway along the coast. He knew that the
military authorities attached great importance to having a line
which would connect Falmouth, Portsmouth, Southampton, Dover,
and Sheerness, for the conveyance of troops. A break of gauge
would be very inconvenient for this purpose, in consequence of hav-
ing to unload and repack the luggage, which with large bodies of
troops was very considerable.
Mr. Locke was then examined with reference to the alternative
line between Yeovil and Exeter, which leaves the main line at the
53th mile and joins it at the 74th.
Mr. COCKBURN then put in the agreement between the two com-
panies and the South-Western Railway and the Cornwall and Devon
Central.
betweenncombe Basingstoke
ewnenrde
then handed iothf treelinDea
The retn
ninforacrhartdpanote•teiqwn
Salisbury. This formal proceeding closed the case on behalf of the
promoters.
jourued till twelve on Thursday.
At the request of Mr. Talbot and Mr. Butt, the Committee ad-

GROUP XX.
LONDON, HOUNSLOW, AND WESTERN.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Evidence having been called as t 8 the value of the property that
would be required for the purposes of the line, the case of the pro-
moters was closed.
The Committee adjourned till Thay at twelve o'clock, *hen
the case for the opponents will be gonernto,

GROUP XXII.
This Committee met this morning at tale usual hour. Sir George
Grey in the chair.
IPSWICH, NORWICH, IiND YARMOUTH.

Evidence Mr.
given as to the traffic anticipa
• ted on this line. n by the
anfatrrmaffie
al was elicited.
advan-
tages counsel, but nothing material
evidence as to the a
et* at resumed.
D en n igton, eon
gave
ob a t e d the evidence already
3Tihri.sow.
Colman, Sheriff
sashesruiffbjecoftNedortwoicah.:ong cross-
transit for corn.
Prior,
Mr. wilde, Coroner of Norwich, and Mr.
at present,
tages which the line would confer by increasing the of
evidence as to the great want of railway communication
line for the
.snd the necessity for constructing the proposed
accom-
modation of the wants of the district.
Mr. H. Edwards, a general merchant at Woodbridge, detailed the
quality of exports and imports at Woodbridge, which he considered
would be greatly increased if the proposed hue were constructed.
Mr. W. Ruston, of Mark-lane, pointed out the Increase which
might be anticipated in the coasting trade by the proposed line.
Mr. Thomas Crisp, farmer, near Orford, and others, reiterated the
above evidence, and the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-
morrow. gnieitStergave

GROUP XXVI.
twTellivee Coo,cmlomalt,tebeu,tlktfhEire.°rAol7o7l.mol:CaosnieleSellagrieEnd3rFe chair, assembled at
the discussion of some
point as to their private regulation, and or
on the re-admission of
strangers,
js cannot addressed the Committee on behalf of the South
i.c o
Essex Company, and went through the several points afforded by the
evidence which had been adduced, resting chiefly ontheincipai
object: which the , company had stated, of affording
il-
way accommodation to the whole county of Essex. rat
the course of his observations the Learned Counsel contrasted the
respective advantages of the line which he advocated, and those of
the North Gravesend line. The branch to Tilbury had this only
advantage to recommend it—it is a branch of a main line, which can
be worked at a small and comparatively insignificant expense ; and
thus it might be made to pay, and, taken in a subsidiary point of
view, it might be worth the while of the company to work it. After
alluding to the case of the town of Barking, where the North Graves-
end Railway crossed the place on the level, the Learned counsel
entered upon the general merits of the line of the South
Essex Company, including the carriage of manure, flour, and
fish. No objeettion had been made to the carriage of
cattle and glieeo, and the only Auhject then for coml.

deration was the conveyance Pf ends. In looking at the
general merits of the line, the first consideration was the existence
of the river Crouch, which, nearly at the mouth of the Thames, had
a. naturally fornicd harbour, accessible al all states of the tide, and
yet perfectly secure in every state of the weather. This harbour
must become the receptacle for a great- portion of that trade
which now impeded the river Thames, and blocked up the port of
London. The consumption of London is at the present time 3,000,000
tons, and may possibly rise to the extent of 5,000,000. The com-
pany took credit for the landing and carriage of 250.000 tons. This
would afford so small a relief to the river, that it was not unreason-
able to suppose that a much larger quantity would be carried by the
railway than that which is at present estimated. This, in
addition to the fact of the ability to reach Gravesend with
equal facility to that which was offered by the opposing Hue—
taking all the circumstances into consideration, the South Essex
line was the one the most worthy of consideration, and the only one
which ought to be granted.

Mr. JintEs replied on behalf of the North Gravesend Company,
when,

The CHAIRMAN inquired whether this was the subject of sub-
scription contract ; to which the Counsel replied, that it was
a project emanating from certain parties connected with the Eastern
Counties Company, although not the project of that Company itself.
But this much he might say, that having got their North Woolwleh
line, and their Thames Junction line, the Eastern Counties Cbm-
pany felt that being an established company they could afford
greater accommodation to the public in an access to Gravesend.
The grand difficulty of the oppo2ing litre was, that they had no ter-
minus whatever worthy of the slightest notice. If at Stepney, there
were the docks to eompete with ; if at the 311nories, they were in the
midst of a neighbourhood which clearly was too well occupied
already ; if in Fenchurch-street, the depot was clearly quite inap •
plicable for coal, on which so much relian.ce was to be placed, and he
would venture ro say that it was equally unfitted for corn. Through-
out the whole case it was evident that the only saving upon
coals was ninepence, and as the North Gravesend Com-
pany contended only threepence. That colliers he insisted,
would rever be discharged in any amount at Crouch, and
he believed that the granting of this line would amount to
Parliamentary tax of 14 d. on all the coal brought by means of this
railway. He would venture to assert that, even if this line were
made, the greatest quantity of coal would be sent into the interior
of the country from the depot of the Blackwall Railway,
and it was in evidence that the residents of Rocheford are now
getting their coals as low as 20s. a ton. The case of the corn trade
was equally plain. Then, as regards the passenger traffic of 374,0001.,
although the whole population of the county was only 340,006, so
that it would be necessary to have every individual in the county,
men, women and children, to create this traffic, and even then it
would be short of the amount. The line, in fact, did not pass through
any place with more than 2,000 inhabitants; so that, through one
means or other, a great part of the income would be done away with,
and he did not believe that any Committee would sanction the
carrying out of a line which was to extel id the deficiencies of the
Blackwall Railway—in fact, the only argument that could be used
for widening the Blackwall Railway under the assumption of bring-
ing a • large traffic upon it from extraneous sources. Now,
the North Gravesend Company had the right to take
the population round their terminus inst as milek as the
North Xont Company had the right to carry th )se
who went from Southwark and other places, on the south side of the
water. The South Essex scheme was ame not ripe for Parliament ;
that the assertions had not been made out, and that there was no
definite terminus. With respect to the other line, it is one projected
by an established company, whose experiei Ice enabled them better than
other parties to judge of the probabilities of success. The North Graves-
end line would cost only about 250,0001., andits only opponent among the
landholders was a gentleman of the name of Thompson, but except-
ing him there was no opposition whatever on the part of the local
residents, and the Learned Counsel trusted that the Committee
would give equal and fair chance of competition to both companies.
The room was then cleared. _ _ _

On tL•e re admission of the parties, the CHAIRMAN stated that the
Committee, after much patient investigation, had come to the con-
clusion that the preamble had not been proved in either of the cases.