The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-24 00:00:00

'A‘ D-AY _E"trk N 1 .N G-, t'EllitUkft_Y
_24, iB4

Ire
in need. Fre regretted that both Right Hon. Gentlemen were ab-
sent, as he should feel a deep satisfaction in expressing to them the
feelings by which he was then actuated. But though he felt that
these measures would be proeuetive of great good, yet they were not
of that comprehensive nature which the distress of the people of Ire-
land demanded. At the same time, he had hopes, from the opinions
he had heard expressed by Hon. Gentlentel, tlifit flit ISiifes would
be brought liSfleafd as fiirther evidences of the good inten-
tions of her Majesty's Ministers towards Ireland, and their
wish to remedy the evils that afflicted that country.—(Hear, hear.)
He was not going to answer the statements made by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Londonderry, with reg,ard,to manufeetures; es he confessed
that he was better fiectiiiihited *ith tile details respecting land.
Neithei was it his wish to notice the accusation made against Messrs.
Bright and Co., as he had no doubt if that Hon. Member were in his
place he would be able to answer everything satisfactorily. With
regard to the measure now proposed, and the consideration of which
had occupied the House for so many nights past, he would say that
he fully concurred in its principles. He thought that the agricul-
turists ought to have time for preparation, as the speech of the Hon.
Member for Durham had convinced him that any sudden change
would be more injurious than beneficial. He regretted the calami-
ties that had recently occurred to Ireland, and he felt sure that what-
ever happened to that country would interest England;
but he certainly did regret that the connexion between
the nations had not been of a more cordial nature.
He would take another opportunity of expressing his opinions on
that subject. When the measure of the Right Honourable Baronet
had been first spoken of, it had excited the greatest alarm, but only
amongst his own constituents in Ireland. He thought that the
measure was likely to be very disastrous, but the alarm was allevi-
ated by the statement, that in that part of the Empire compensation
would be given for any injury sustained. There is no doubt that it
would be needed, and they were quite ready to take them on either
side.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) When the nature, however,
of the measure was known, the whole of the alarm was im-
mediately dissipated; and the country, and he himself might
say for his constituents especially, that they were prepared
to give their whole support to the Government. Some
Honourable Gentlemen were very much in the habit of talking of
going forward in legislation at a railroad pace. Now, he had no ob-
jection to going forward, but, at tho same time, he should not like
to go downwards.—(ilear.) A steady pace forwardly would be more
for the advantage of this great empire. The position of the Irish
station was between the two parties in that House. They conceived
that their interests were generally opposed by the party on the Mi-
nisterial side, and they usually looked upon gentlemen on his (Mr.
Fitzgerald's) side as friends. The Irish people were now placed in
this dilemma.. They were befriended by those on whom they had
been accustomed to look as enemies, and found their interests op-
posed by those whom they all along regarded as their friends. He
felt satisfied that in the vote he should give he would receive the
thanks of his constituents. He thought that the Right lion. Baronet
at the head of the Government had evinced great moral courage in
the part he had acted, and had shown himself worthy of that high
position which lie occupied as the chief Minister of this great empire.
—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, in the measure which he
had brought forward, had considered the interests of the whole
station, and had not sacrificed those Interests to the aggrandiseinent
of a class.—(Hear, and cheers.)
Captain LOCKHART, who was almost inaudible in the gallery,
was understood to sny, that the products of this country required
moderate protection, but that one article of produce was not entitled
more than another to the exclusive advantages of protection. He
was elected a Member of that House, to represent a numerous con-
stituency on protective prineipies.—(Hear, hear, from the protec-
tionists)—and had heard no new principle or argument brought for-
ward which would induce him to change his opinion.—(Hear.) He
did not see that the House was to be called upon to repeal the
corn-laws, in order to remove a temporary evil—a simple provision
might surely ho found for a remedy, without disturbing and destroy-
ing the different great existing interests. It had been argued that
the experience which had' been seen since 1843 furnished abundant
reason for the abandonment of protection. He (Captain Lockhart)
was of opinion, on the contrary, that :he effects of the measure of
1843 were a strong evidence in favour of the continuance of moderate
protection. It had been presumed, that when Great Britain should
set the example of free-trade, the whole world would simultaneously
follow it. Such an idea was, however, purely chimerical, aad would
not be relied on. The Hon and Gallant Member having briefly
al:uded to the displacement of interests which would ensue in agri-
culture and commerce when the measure should come into full
operation, proceeded to say that he had met with experienced
farmers, who were of opinion that the effect of the Bill would be to
throw much land out of cultivation. He would read a brief extract
from a letter which he had received from a friend, a practical far-
mer, who was a great admirer of the Right Honourable Baronet at
the head of the Government. "If," wrote his friend, " Sir Robert
Peel succeeds in carrying his intended Corn Bill it win ruin this part
of the country. The greater portion of our inferior land will be
thrown out of cultivation, and the grass land will in a few years be-
come altogether useless." The measure opened up an alarming
prospect for Great Britain. The policy which was now being pur
sued was similar to that which ruined ancient Rome, and it was his
sincere hope that it would no longer be followed up.—(Cheers.)
Sir GEORGE CLERK, after what had fallen from Hon. Members
around, would make a few observations. After the Bill had been so
fully debated, he thought it would be useless for him further toparti-
cularise its merits; but he would confine himself simply to its de-
fence. It had been stated that the policy of the Government resolved
itself into two heads, one of which was to provide for an emergency,
and the other to construct a system. One Hon. Member bad said
that it was to carry cut a new system of commercial policy. He
(Sir George Cleik) would altogether deny that it was to carry out a
new system of commercial policy. If his Right Hon. Friend carried
out this measure, it would be merely a continuance of the principles
which characterised the measure of 18421 or, to go further back,
commont i s e
with principlesth e lateh i
w
uskisson, in the year 1824. Even at
that period it had been stated that the Government had run wild with
the notion of free trade.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He thought
that to follow the course of policy which had been pursued by
eh the Mr.
HRight Hon. Gentleman entertained, in
this country for the last twenty years could not be considered
as constructing a novel system of policy. AS respected
the emergency of the case, he wished be could consider it as
only of a temporary nature.—(Hear, hear.) He would go a little
further forward, with respect to the dreadful fate that awaited Ire-
land, than the present time. It must be borne in mind that potatoes
will be wanted for the years 1847 and 1848 and 1849 as well as for
the present year. The crop of the present year was se completely
destroyed that it would be impossible to furnish seed sufficient for the
next season. He had been informed in his own neighbourhood that
this disease had never been known before to have reached so exten-
sive a height as at present The answer which had been made the
other night to a question from the Hon. Member for Cockermouth
with respect to this disease, would be a sufficient reply to
the Honourable Gentleman who talked of this matter as a
mere "temporary emergency." It was very much to be feared
that this disease would not be confined to this year, but there was reason
to apprehend that it would extend to the next and future years.
It was not to be wondered at, that they did not get parties to agree
on this subject of the potato rot, for it was very various in different
districts of the country ; and as gentlemen received their informa-
tion, so they held their opinions and expressed them. But there
was one test to which they might refer, as to what was the real
extent of the calamity. They were all aware that the potato
formed a very large proportion cf the food of this metropolis,—what
then was the state of the supply of the London market? He found
upon inquiries, that the supply during the last four months of the
last half-year, ending in 1845, amounted to 770,000 sacks, while
during the same period, from the Ist of October last to the
14th of January; they had only 540,000 sacks, showing a failing off of
one-third of the supply to the metropolis—(Hear, hear)—and if a
similar inquiry were made with respect to the state of theirlarge ma-
nufacturing districts, such as Manchester and Birmingham, they
would find that the difference amounted to a much greater proportion,
Let them now look to what had been the effect of this scarcity upon
prices in London. At the end of January, 1844, potatoes by the ton
averaged from 50 shillings to 80 shillings; at the end of January in
the present year they rated from $0 to 160 shillings, the
lowest price being nearly double what it was before. The poor
people would now be driven to purchase bread for food, and it was
an ascertained fact, that in those parts of the town inhabited by the
poorer classes, the bakers that before baked but 10 sacks were now
baking 12, showing an increase in the consumption of flour of 10 per
cent. When they took these circumstances together—when they
considered the crop had not been sufficient to supply the demand for
food—although they had been importing largely for the last six years
—when they were aware that the whole supply for Ireland was
likely to be cut off—that there was already an increase of 10 per
cent. on the demand for flour, and that the reports from Yorkshire,
from whence their chief supply of potatoes came, stated that
that supply would not hold out till the month of May—
he would ask them what was the best course for the Govern-
ment to pursue ? Was it not their duty to endeavour to prevent
impediments from being thrown in the way of an adequate supply of
provisions for the country.—(Loud cheers.) He should wish also
to advert to what was perfectly well known, that in consequence
of the great variability of the season, the harvest, though
not deficient in bulk, was exceedingly so in the weight and quality of
the grain. What was the effect that this deficiency had upon the
averages in last autumn, whenit was of the utmost importance to
the country to procure a supply of foreign corn—when they knew
that the potato disease had extended over the whole of the country—
and when it was well known that the harvest in Europe had failed
to a very great extent, in consequence of which Holland and Bel-
gium had removed all impediments to the free imp mtation of corn?
—(Cheers.) At that very time we found that the price of
corn averaged very low, while the averages of the duty
were moving in the opposite direction, and were rapidly
rising. No subject attracted the more anxious attention
of the Government than these facts. They compared week by week
the quantities of corn exported with those imported, and they found
that the proportion of the former was very trifling. If they perceived,
however, that the supply was not sufficient, would it not have been
their bounden duty to have opened the ports and prevented that
supply from being diminished by exportation ? And in sach an
emergency the Government would be justified in taking upon
themselves to open the: ports.—(Hear, hear.) What was the
great argument for: the systems of the sliding scale? namely,
that it Contained Within Itself a self-adjusting principle,
The Hon. Member had said a great deal of Russia, cad spoke of
that country as if Great Britain derived the whole of her supply of
food from it ; but lie would show the Hen. Member that he was mis-
taken, and that England never did get from Russia this enormous
supply of food which he appeared to think she did. But at the period
to which the lion. Member referred, England had a very deficient
supply, and therefore the Hon. Member had to ransack the whole
world for facts upon which to support his argument. Now the fact
was, that in four years this country had received only 1,200,000
quarters of wheat from Russia. It was true that in 1840 food had
reached a famine price here, by reason of scarcity that year; but
even during that year England imported from Russia only 317,000
quarters. In fact, the Honourable Member had argued as 11
Great Britain Ras the only country in the world that looked to
other countries for ft Supply of corn in addition to its own
resources. But he begged to tell the Hon. Member that there were
other countries besides Great Britain who received a large supply
from Russia, and who, therefore, took off a great portion of that
supply which the Hon. Member had given England the credit of re-
ceiving. Then with regard to the United States, the Hon. Member
had said that they were most fertile in the produce of corn; but he
begged to tell the lion. Member, that from the great extent of the
population of that country, and the great increase of that population,
it was not likely that England could expect a supply to any con-
siderable amount from the United States. He found, by returns
which he had now before him, that since the year 1793 Great Britain
had imported less corn from the United States than from any other
country, except in the year 1840, and even then the extra portion
was but very small indeed. In the year 1840 the population of the
United States was 17,000,000, and during that year ex-
Ported 10,600,000 quarters of corn, which left only four bushels
per head for the whole population of the country; but
corn not being the principal article of food In the country, It was
found that more than a sufficient supply lied been retained for the
use of the population; but in the whole of the quantity exported
very little of It came to England But even supposing ' that the
argument of the Hon. Member was well founded, if the population
of this country should go on increasing in the same ratio as it had for
the last few years, he doubted whether this country could obtain
more than a sufficient supply of food for the use of its inhabitants,
even supposing that all the available resources of Russia should be
developed.—(Hear, hear.) He saw by returns he had before him
that in live years 10.000,000 of quarters of wheat had been imported
into this country, or at the rate of two millions a year, and yet was
any one prepared to say that the people of tine country had been
overfed? (Hear, he ,r.) And even if that import trade
should increase to 3,000,000 a year for the next ten years,
it would not be an ever supply, taking into account
the probable increase of the population. The Hon. Member for
Shrewsbury hal spoken of the great quantity of corn imported front
various ports in America, but the increasing population of that
country and the great quantity of land out of cultivation, 'would have
The Hon. Member for Sunderland had
the effect of stopping that.
a quantity of wheat from
stated, that in the year 1837 he imported
America, and
after having paid all expenses_ he was enabled to sell it
at 255. ; but in that year
the price of foreign corn was only 22s
how the II " well understand on. Member
and, therefore, he could .
ce —Meer, hear.) The experience
could sell his wheat at that
Pr' the House that the
of all former years had shown increased con-
increase led to an of price. With
gumption of any article had
regard to the article of ten, which had been introduced
the other night by the Honourable
Member for Shrewsbury,
the Hon. Member's arguments
that
he (air G. Clerk) felt convinced
were not sound, for if he looked at the price of tea at Canton at the
ith the price in the corresponding
present time, and compared it w tea had Tell, much • "P"
in
increased in
month of 1844, he would find that
price.—(Cheers.) And then, with respect to the article of cotton,
d by the same Hon. Member, facts
which had also been introduce
f h duties that •
that the reduction° t e on article had been
went to show
ts and a corresponding increase in price.
followed by increased impel' ,
part, lie did not know '-'
the
—(Hear, hear.) For his OWrt
got the statements where
Hon. Member (air Disraeli) gwhich he
read to the House on Friday .
night last about cotton (Hear, hear,
and laughter.) If he lookat the price cotton at
ed
it New Orleans at
the present moment, he would find that was sold at Ws cents, and
than 9 cents per lb.— h
in some instances not lower . (C eers and
tandy have been a case where
laughter.) There might cer c ' from a
some similar cause, cottoa had been
stagnation in trade, or
oiled by the Honourable a
sold at the low price meal [ember,
the actual '
but that should not be quoted as
cotton was sold at almost all seasons, and in every year.—
(near, hear.) By the inventions of a certain gentleman in
America (whose inventions Were somewhat similar to those
of Arkwright in England) cotton could certainly be sold at a much
lower rate than formerly. About fifty years ago a petition was pre-
sented to that House, by farmers residing in the neighburhood of
London, who stated that if turnpikes were introduced into the
northern parts of England, corn and other agricultural product would
their be brought at so cheap a rate to London, that
would be completely ruined.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) They also
stated that labour was much cheaper in the northern parts of
England, that it would he impossible to compete with the northern
agriculturists. In the year 1787, when Mr. Pitt proposed
to repeal the lams restricting the importation of Irish corn, the
greatest alarm took place. Members representing the western parts
of Scotland stated that if such a measure were passed, the agricul-
ture of Scotland would be ruined. Members also representing dif-
ferent parts of Breland protested against the passing of such a mea-
sure. But -.chat was the fact ? From year to year since that
period the, agriculture of Scotland had been continually prospering,
and he would venture to say that in no part of the three kingdoms
was, agriculture in so prosperous a state as it was in Scotland at the
.T-resent-resent moment—(Hear, hear)—and yet the measure when proposedlid
In 1787 created almost as much alarm as s the present measure of
her Majesty's Ministers.—(Hea ,
r hear, and laughter.) The House
'would bear in mind that in the year 1820 a petition was presented to
i
'idle House by all the principal merchants in London, praying the
douse to remove all eqtrictiens from the commerce of the colUltrY
.. -

Lord Liverpool, Who Was then hi Ofrice n at he e o
,o -
• bird ithid—
vernment, acted upon those recommendations and did ititftidni_'.e a
great number of measures which had for their object the removal of pro-
hibitions on the iinportation of linen aud other articles. Great al arm *as
occasioned by the proposal. Several Irish Members protested against
thefneastire, on tllesgroend hatt the linen mannfacturera and all in
their etimloy Would be coiiipletdy Miffed dud the 1-16 ii, /llertiber fbr
Lancashire at that time no doubt spoke to the same effect. AR the
fact was, that at the present time the linen manufacture was in a
prosperous state. The lien. Member for Shrew,burz had for-
gotten that poWerfal Speech Which had been made by hiFfriend the
Right, Hon. litifOnet at the head . elf the (love/Int:lent—
(Loud eheefiiigi -; When ht Made 11,is StatenfentS; (Hear,
hear.) The Right lionatiffible listonet had shown
that the linen manufactures of Ireland, partictlififiji in the
neighbourhood of Belfast, were in a most prosperous state.—(llear,
hear.) Ile showed that from year to year, since the measures of Lord
hemade
me were act
yboloeunt tot
hhc
leo
smt
case.—(Hear,
article,te compete Liverpool, the linen interest of Ireland had been continually im-
w
proving,
could
ld reductiontiemanufacturersimagine
France)G eoTrhg ee
and the result was that they were now able to compete—the
wtHbhuett ha
rh:es eh(eSa rf.
and Britain.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Birmingham
had stated that the zinc trade had materially suffered by reason of
o of f p
ho Ireland
ho
Clerk) should confess that he was astonished at the statement, and
price of zinc at one period was 751. per ton, and the duty 4.51. per
ton. Now it should be admitted that zinc was an article cof recent
origin, but since the duty was removed the trade in that article had
vastly increased. Therefore, by the reduction of the duty on that
article alone, a new manufacture sprung up, and em-
ployment was given to additional hundreds of the la-
bourers of the country; whereas, had the prohibitory duty been
continued, those persons must have remained without employment.
'
(Hear hear.) In the years 1843 and 1844, the quantity of zinc im-
ported was 7,000 tons, half of which was again exported to India
and China, and in the last year the quantity imported was 12,000
tons, not more than 2,000 tons of which had been exported. Now,
could there be a clearer proof given of the value of the article, inde-
pendent of the vast benefit it afforded to the numerous operatives and
labourers engaged about it ?—(Hear, hear.) New, as regarded the
silk manufactures, he could say that they had more than doubled
since the duty was taken off them. In the month of February, 1842,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced the reduction of the duty
on raw silk, when objection wits taken to the immediate introduc-
tion of the measure ; but as regarded the feeling of the House, it was
unanimous on the matter, and the question was carried
on the 7th of March in the same year. Honourable Mem-
bers will find that the most successfhl method of
increasing their revenue is by removing high prohibitory duties.
That opinion is fortified by the experience of the last twelve years.
We have been removing duties upon French goods, as well as the
goods of other countries. He would mention a few articles upon
which the duty had been wholly or in part taken off—
French silks, gloves, flax, and cambric, clover-seed, and linseed.
The Honourable Baronet then went on to state that he was
as anxious as any Member of that House that the landed aris-
tocracy should maintain their proud position, but if that existence
depends upon the corn-laws, he really trembled for it.—(Laughter.)
If he understood rightly the arguments of the Hon. Member for
Shrewsbury, he seemed to maintain that the preponderance of pro-
tection should be given to the landed proprietors of this country, in
order to maintain landed interest. The Hon. Baronet, whose speech
throughout was almost inaudible in the gallery, concluded by saying
that the agricultural party would best consult their interest and the
interest of their constituents by consenting to a speedy settlement of
this question, which cannot long be protracted, and which may now be
settled under very different circumstances than these which wiil not fail
to accompany it if delayed to alonger period, and considered that these
measures, if passed, would tend to consolidate the interest of the
country, and place its institutions upon a firmer foundation.
Mr. 31UNTZ rose to explain. He stated that he never expressed
an opinion in opposition to the reduction of the duty on speller. He
used upwards of 1,500 tons of zinc in his own business, and he could
net, therefore, consider it anything but a boon thus to reduce the
duty.
Mr. LIDDEL stated that the Hon. Baronet who had just sat down
had made one of the boldest assertions which it had ever been his lot
to hear from any one who sat upon the benches along with the Hon.
Baronet.—(Hear, hear.) At the beginning of his speech, the lion.
Baronet startled the House by stating that there had been no change
in the policy of her Majesty's Ministers.—(" Hear, hear," from
the protectionists.) Why, then, did they go before the
country in the year 1841 ?—(Hear, hear.) Why did they protest be-
fore their constituents against the change proposed by the Noble
Lord the Member' for the city of London ?—(Hear, hear.) What
were the three articles upon which the Noble Lord proposed to
make that change—that change which is admitted to be a more
judicious one than the measure at present proposed. If no change had
taken place, why, he would ask once more, is the Noble Lord and
his friends upon the Opposition benches ?—(" Hear, hear," from Col.
Sibthorp.) Why is the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland (Lord
Lincoln), again before his constituency, and to all appearance likely
to be rejected by them? Why have many Noble Lords and Hon.
Gentlemen resigned their seats, acknowledging their responsibilities
to their constituency ? He must say that he had never heard any-
thing more startling than the assertion that the measure now pro-
posed by the Government was a natural consequence of tile
measures and principles which they had adopted for the last few
years.— (Hear, and laughter.) Then there was another propo-
sition in the Right Hon. Barenet'a speech, namely, that we should
be called upon to give a reason for opposing this measure. These rea-
sons are already provided for us; we have only to look at the opinions
of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government
to find our limits to justify us in our opposition.—(Hear, hear.) On the
contrary, the converse ought to have been the case. We have a right
to call upon Hon. Members of the Cabinet for reasons why they
should alter their past policy—to inform us of the means
by which they bad been induced to alter their course of policy, and
adopt that which they now recommended. The Hon. Member then
went on to state that if no important changes should take place in
the price of bread, what becomes of the argument which is so con-
stantly used to excite the public against us ?—(Hear, hear.) Telling
the populace what bold impiety it is to make dear the price
of bread which God Almighty has given to the poor. What
becomes of this argument, if the expectations held out
with reference to those Important changes should not be realised?
(Hear, hear.) lie would now drop any further reference to the
speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, who had just sat down, and he
would now allude to the statement made by the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head of the Government.—(Hear, hear.) In that speech there
were some fallacies and some inaccuracies, which, with the per-
mission of the House, he would allude to.—(Hear, hear.) That
speech might be very properly divided into three heads—the first
part contained a statement of the direct causes which had led to the
recent change of opinion on the part of the Government. The
second part entered into an explanation of the course which the
Government intended to adopt, to meet the state of things which
led to that change of opinion. The third part enumerated various
facts and instances of the success which had attended the relax-
ation of prohibitory duties, and which circumstance was an en-
couragement to the Right Honourable Baronet to proceed still
further in that course of pollcy.—(Hear.) The first part of the
speech had been so ably treated by different Members on that side of
the House since the debate commenced, that it was altogether unne-
cessary for him to allude to it.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
for Devonshire had proved that the causes alleged for such an altera-
tion were inadequate, and the remedies proposed were insufficient.—
(Hear, hear.) He would not, therefore, detain the House with any
observations on that point. He did not hesitate to say, that with
regard to the silk trade, there had been an over-amount or excess
of legislative protection. He considered, however, that when the
Bight Hon. Baronet proposed to adhere to a protective duty of 151.
per cent. ad valorem, on silk, lace, and other articles of manufac-
ture, he did not see why he felt called upon to abandon the principle
in reference to corn. The Right Hon. Baronet proposed to reduce
the duty on foreign timber from 255. to 155., with a view, no doubt,
to afford a better supply to the consumer. Now, with regard to the
dimished cost of timber, it was fair to take into calculation the trade
,)f the past year, when partly from the late judicious revision of those
duties, a depression had taken place in the price, and the advan•
tage of this reduction went into the pocket of the consumer.
If the interests of the British public were thus involved, the peti-
defiers expressed their concern that the greater part, if not all, of
the increased importation from the Baltic would fall into the hands of
the foreign shipowner. and the foreign producer would receive all the

benefit. That point brought him to the utter incapacity of the Bri-
tish shipowner to compete with the foreigner. And what was the
reason? He would call the attention of the House to the
comparative expense of building a British ship in the
Baltic. He took the facts from the evidence taken before
the Committee on British shipping appointed the year before last,
and which showed the relative cost of navigating a British and a foreign
ship on a three months' voyage. The wages for working a British ship
"or three months amounted to 1691. 105., and the wages ofa Prussian
ship for the same period and of the same tonnage, was rather more
than 811., being a difference of rather more than 881. in favour of the
Prussian ship. With regard to the cost of provisions—the cost of
victualling a British ship for a three months' voyage was 961., and
the cost under the same head for a Prussian ship was only 391.,
being a difference of 561. in favour of the Prussian ship, or 140 per
cent. in favour of the Prussians. So much for the costs of navigation
and victualling. But he would now call their attention to the ques-
tion of ship-building, and he would ask whether those who looked to
the British shipowners for the carriage of articles could quarrel with
the high rate of freight. They agreed to that addition of prices,
because their own safety was secured by it, and, in the words of
Adam Smith, he would say, " of all the restrictive policy in the hiss
tory of this country, I am compelled to say that the navi-
gation-laws are the most justifiable as national security
is preferable to commercial produce." In the port of London the
wages of shipwrights have not varied for the last 25 years, and that
curious fact was caused by the combination existing between the
carpenters and the shipwrights. At Toulon the shipwright's wages,
as stated in the official reports from the French Government,
amounted to a franc and a half per day, and in our dockyards at the
present moment the shipwright's wages were 4s. 6d. per day. ,The
foreign ships could be built for 51. or 6/. per ton, and such ships were
superior to the vessels built at Sunderland for 101. per ton.
A first-rate British ship, built in the Thames at a cost of 161. per
ton, when quite ready for sailing, wad cost 21/. per ton. After
this statement, he would ask the House whether the protection to
the British shipowner could enable them to compete with the
shipping from the Northern ports? Could it be possible for them to
ontend against such advantages unless they brought down the
wages of the British shipbuilder to the miserable level of the
Continental shipowners?—(Cheers from the Ministerial side.)
They were asked by the Right Honourable Baronet
whether they were to advance or to retreat. They might
'flake a step in advance if they reduced the wages of the labourer,
but they would deteriorate the condition of the' nation, and he
thought that such a step would be a retrogade movement, and no
advancement. But to pursue the subject with regard to foreign '
timber. What were tile returns of the British and foreign trade from
1842 to 1844 ? The total amount Of British tonnage entered inwards
front Norway and Sweden was 103,392 Ong, and the foreign
timber entered in the same period (the yeBf 1842) amounted
to 341,533 tons. In the year 1844 the foreign tonnage
advanced considerably in amount, as did also the British. In that
year the British tonnage advanced to 150,000 tons, and the foreign
timber to 520,000 tone, so that in the two years the British ship-
ping engaged in the foreign trade increased by 25,000 tons, or 19 per
.ent. on the whole, while the foreign Shipping in the same period
increased to the extent of 187,189 tons, or 54 per cent. on the first
amount of 350,000 tons. The result of this would be, that British
shipowners would be driven away by this unequal competition, and
the trade in the Baltic timber would fall into the hands of the fo-
reigner. This was the argument of the shipowner, who was not
desirous of raising prices but of lowering them. The Right Hon.
Baronet had made one or two errors in his statement. He had said
that it would not be believed that at that moment there was not one
ton of Baltic timber in the port of Liverpool fit for building
a first-rate twelve years' ship, so they would see
the estimation is which the Baltic timber was held.
-;/.) much for that part of the question relating to timber, and the
prayer of the petition of tile shipowners that had been laid upon the
table. Intimately connected with this question was that of the
colonial trade. On this point he would detain the House for af w
!minutes, ifs would begin with the case of South Australia, and he
would call the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet to a notice which
had appeared respecting the state of this colony in the public prints
a few days ago. It referred to a petition last year by an
Honourable Member of that House, touching the question of
a free importation of Australian corn. It was asked as a boon,
but it was opposed by the Right Honourable Baronet on the
occasion, and he (Mr. Liddel) after the arguments which the Right
Hon. Baronet had laid down respecting the Canadas, could not con-
ceive how he could oppose placing Australia on a similar footing.
The statement in question represented the progress of the colony
during the last live years, including 1840 and 1845, and it showed
the number of acres in cultivation in the different 5 ears. In 1840
the number of acres under cultivation was only 2,503; but in four years
after it was 6,696. 1843 was the year in which the greatest increase
of cultivation took place, arising from the demand for produce, and
the high price which it bore in the market. It was remarked that
in those years when prices were low, comparatively little land was
brought under cultivation, in fact, in some instances it decreased, while
an increase of price brought with it an increase in cultivation. If,
ts expected by the measure of the Government, according to the
same rule which had been found to operate in Australia, prices fell
in Great Britain, then land must go out of cultivation.—(Loud cries
of " Hear, hear.") He could hardly conceive how prices could be
maintained, if they imported five or six millions of quarters
and if Australia could not import corn to this country when there
was a duty of ss. on it, how was it to be expected that the wheat of
that colony could find a market in this country when there was free
importation admitted from every other nation. What also becalm
of the argument used in support of the Canadian Corn Bill which
was brought forward as a boon, because they could not import corn
into this country under a duty of 55. ? They would he obliged, under
the measure now proposed, to resort to the United States fir a mar-
ket. Now, with regard to the general question he was extremely
anxious to learn the opinions of her Majesty's Goverment on one
point—what was the real opinion of the Government on the pro-
bable consequences of their measure? On this point he (Mr. Liddell)
was as yet unsatisfied; and perhaps during the progress of the pre-
sent debate, or at some future stage, the Right Honourable
Baronet, or some other member of the Government, would
favour the House with some calculation of the general amount
of price that might be expected under a free trade in corn.
His opinion was, that if they discouraged the home grown produce,
and trusted to foreign countries for the supply of their markets, al-
though a fruitful season would maintain an extension of prices ; yet,
in a bad season—in non-productive years, and with, perhaps a rup-
ture with foreign powers, he believed that the cora trade would ex-
hibit a dangerous fluctuation in price. That was the grand point in
which the public were concerned, and it was in order to
maintain this steadiness in supply and price, that they advocated the
principle of protection. He was also ashamed now to acknowledge
that he had opposed the measure of 1842, for as circumstances went,
he was now inclined in favour of it.—(Cheers and laughter from the
Liberal benches.) Me congratulated the Right Hon. Baronet on the
accession of the Hon. Member for Finsbury to the ranks of his
supporters, and however he might regret the loss sustained in the
lion. and Gallant Member for Westminster (Captain Rous), lie was
fully repaid in the support of the Hon. Member for Finsbury.—
(Cheers and laughter.) lite admitted that the new law of settlement
would be not only a great boon to the agricultural interest, but to
humanity. He had often seen with the most heartfelt pity miserable
beings —men, wives, and families, wandering in the public highways
of the country, without a place to lay their heads, and unable to go
to their parishes, not knowing where they could find a settlement,
with nothing in the shape of pecuniary relief before them, seeking a
miserable pittance from the hand of charity, and if they reached
their own country —say Scotland, or Ireland—perhaps literally
starving. lle trusted, therefore, that no consideration would cause
him to lay aside this measure, for he had no hesitation in saying that
by so doing he would confer a lasting benefit on the country. It would
be unnecessary for him to trouble the House longer. He-had endea-
voured to get before the House the true postilon in which they stood,
and the claims the agricnittuista lied to protection. Ile did not '