The Sun.
London, England, 1848-09-27 00:00:00

CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
OLD COURT.
TRIAL OF CUFFEY, FAY, AND LACY.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
On the coLclusion of the examination i❑ chief of Thos.
Powell, which occupied the Court no less than four hours,
the jury retired to take refreshment, and the court ad-
journed from ten minutes past two to half-past, when
the cross-examination of the witness was proceeded
with.

In answer to questions from Mr. BALLANTINE, the
witness stated that he went by the name of Johnson at
these meetings. On one cceasioa a person at Cart-
wright's called him Robinson, to which he
replied, " Call me any name you like." Once
went by the name of the " Welsh Novice." With
the exception of that, never went by any other name
than Johnson. Robinson, and Powell. About two
days after the 20th of July commenced taking
notes of the meeting. He did not do so
at the desire of any one ; nor did he show
them to any one. Had communicated to the police
and to the Government what was going on from time to
time, but had nevershown his notes till he was before some
of the authorities. He thought he did so before the pri-
soners at the bar were taken into custody. Would not
swear that he did not show his notes before the sth of
August. Would swear he had never altered his notes
since ho had shown them to the authorities. He had
joined the Chartists for the purpose of giving information
to the authorities. Ile did not do so for want, as ho
had always plenty of work, but he was determined the
Government should know what was going on. Had been
connected with the turf as a pedestrian. Was called
the " Welsh Novice." Was a runner then, and was so a
little now.—(A. laugh.) Had run at Croydon and
Hounslow. At the first and last place he ran for the
purpose of drawing custom to the house. Had never
kept a thimble-rig; had played, but neither won nor
lent. Did not know what a decoy was. Had been paid
for playing.—(Sensation and hisses.) Went for my
master. Was paid 30s. Was but one-and-twenty, and
was ignorant of the real nature of his delinquency.
Was, in fact, employed to stand at a table as a mere
gull at races, and to take the money. Did not consider
Himself decoying the people.
What did you bet for? did you bet to deceive the
people? I did.—(These statements of the witness caused
great disgust in the court.) Never played at a
thimble-rig table nor associated with those men
in the whole course of his life. Knew a person
named Pennell. Never told him him that he
walked a match with ToWnsend and sold the parties.
Did not sell the parties who backed him, nor said he
had. Never ran for money. Had never been a witness
before, except on one occasion in this court eight years
ago, in a case of picking a pocket handkerchief. Did
not at that time tell some one that he was afraid to give
evidence because he might be asked about his thimble-
rigging. His father was dead. Was employed by his
brother-in-law, whose name was Smith, who employed
several men. Never told a man Parris that he had been
employed by thimble-rigging people. Had never said
that he did not believe in the existence of God, the
Saviour, or the like. Believed in the existence of God.
Had sakl to Parris that ho might expect something re-
markable ; never said he expected a rising. Parris
hail thrown out hints that he was a spy.
Got some lead from Mr. Smith, for the
purpose of casting bullets for Mr. Gurney. Did
not tell Mr. Smith his purpose. He gave him about a
pound of lead. Cast the bullets for Gurney. One of
his boys was present when he did so. He was ten years
of age. Was not bringing him up to this kind of busi-
ness. Received 4s. from his " locality," to buy lead,
powder, and cartridge-paper. Was not called by his
shopmates " Lying Tom. Never heard before now that
he was called so. Should resent such an insult.—
(Laughter.) Never told a person named Osborne that
there was about to be a Chartist rising, and asked him
to join them, but would not swear that he had asked his
sh4mates to join. He might have done it. Could not re-
collect that he had told Osborn that he knew a man who
could make a pike for him. Believed he did point out
a person named Hook to Osborn for that purpose at a
meeting in Birdcage-walk one Sunday morning. Could
not at all tell the purpose the pike was intended for.
Never said " that if be got a chance in a crowd he would
rip the guts up of the police with a chisel." Had
quarrelled with his father during his lifetime once or
twice. Did not strike him. He was strnck by him
once, and took hold of hith by his coat to keep him off.
Never said, " You old b---, I'll murder you." Mr.
Smith separated them. Had one uncle, with whom he
had quarrelled. Had been bound over to keep the
peace towards him. Had been 11 years with his brother-
in-law. Never told Pennell, whom his brother dis-
charged, that the Government was a weak and bloody
Government, and that he would send Lord John Rus-
sell to the devil about a fortnight before the 10th of
April. Would swear he never did. Never offered to
propose Pennell as a member of the Chartist Confede-
racy, nor that he should receive 21. or 31. a week for
agitating the country, which would be better than
working at Smith's. Neither did ho tell him
that the Chartists would never get the Charter
by .the way they were going on. No expressions
of the following kind ever passed his lips to Pennell,—
" Look at the Queen, with her hundreds of thousands,
which are spent in waste and idleness "—" I would blow
her and the b-- foreigner to hell "—" Come; to my
home, and I will show you materials sufficient to blow
London to hell in half an hour." Had told a shoemaker
named Pennell, before the 10th of April, that he had
made hand-grenades that would go half through an inch
bord," but had never made any. Merely told this lie
for talking's sake—merely as a luxury.(Laugh-
ter.) Did so merely as a pastime. Believed
he to'd him how he made them. That was a
lie too. Yet he was not called " Lying Tom." We were
all busy talking about throwing them among the police.
Dare say he did tell him, and those who were present,
that a stout blacking bottle, half filled with powder and
nails, with a fusee, would do very well, but did not recollect
saying that if they were thrown among the police they
would break their legs. Went to the meeting on Ken-
nington-common, bat would swear he did not go armed.
Never told Bennet shortly after the meeting that
ith ten men he could easily take the Artillery-ground.
Never told him that he he had prepared plans to
accomplish this, ner that his (Powell's) men knew well
" how to spike the police." Did not know a man named
John Westmorland, Thomas Anthill, nor Taylor Might
have said at Cartwright's coffee-house that O'Connor was
a coward, because he had proposed peaceable measures
to the Nation' Assembly, and suggested that it should
be postponed. Would not swear he had not. Would
swear that he never told Anthill that if every man had
arms they would soon upset the Government. Never
offered him any powder. Did not know a person named
George Thurston by name. (Thurston was _called,
and the witness said he knew him by name.)
Had a pair of pistols. Exchanged them for
another pistol. Would nut swear that he did not offer
to sell the pistols to Thurston for 63., nor stated that if
he purchased them he would give him a pound of pow-
der with the bargain. Was never a member of a club
called the " Wet Tyler." He had heard of it, but had
never attended any of its meetings. Had attended a
Chartist meeting at a beer-shop at the corner of James-
street, Heaton Old Town. Could not say whether this
was in May or June. Did not know a person called
Henry Gre n by name. Knows Dennis Donaine.
Would not swear that ho had said of Donaine that
he was a Government spy, or that he was
a milk and water moral force b—. Did not think such
lengtme'e was uttered by him. I am a moral man.
should not feel surprise if the persons who attended
Cartwright's had said such things of him, as they were
parties who would shock any moral man. (A small
plan was put into the witness's hand.) Would swear
that he era not draw it and give it to Westmorland (who
was celled to confront him). Ho bad made a plan,
a circle dotted to show the positions of people,
but he destroyed it. He made the plan and
produced it at the meetings merely to find out
the plans other parties had. Ido not remember
nny lines on the circle, because my memory is so bad.
Would swear there were no lines in the large plan.
Knew a person named John Collins, a desperate, noisy
character. Had nut informed against him. Did not re-
member tapping him on the shoulder and asking him if
he was coming up stairs that night (a night in
Angus:), as there was to be a glorious meeting,
5. b.. attended only by those who were ready to come
out and fight for their rights. Did not- recollect
asking him if he was prepared, and his saying " Mr.
Johnson, I do not know what you mean." Never
told him that he had a nice dagger, which he would
meke him a present of, nor if he would join him ho
wes!d show him a way to obtain his rights. Knows
George Medlock's (who was called in) face. Would not
swear that he had tot said that two persons he named
were " morel force b---." I may have said it, and
forgotten it. I now remember that on that night I was
at Gartwrielit's, and I was accused of being a spy, on
account of my not going by my right name of Powell.
I denilia that I was a spy, and 'accounted for using the
name of Johnson by saying that I did not wish my
friends to know I had anything to do with the Chartists.
I know a man named Bryant. On the 16th August,
in the early part of the evening, I was standing outside
Cartwright's with a crowd, but I don't recollect that he
asked me what was the matter, and that I told him I
thought it was a botched job by those milk and water
I don't remember saying, on being pressed for
11p-explanation, that there was intended to be a turn out
that night, and that a signal rocket was to be fired be-
tweentune and ten, and the people were to turn out. I
don't recollect it but I won't swear I did not. It is not
likely that I said thesei— milk-and-water chaps have
sold the job, and the
Orange-street.delegates must have been nailed in
it.remember may have
have said all this and forgotten
night this walking up Chiswell-street
with the same man•
ee showed him sixty-eight ball
eartaidges. This sr between ten and eleven o'clock
at night. lam sure I did not tell him that I had got
two hundred fire-balls to throwpeople's houses. I
think I did pull out a pistol and also a tin box full of
percussion naps. I also had a sword inmvy coat pocket,
and I showed him the handle. I may e said at the
same time, "You see I am well prep 4 be
ed
me
for
moyr
otwhern ; are
you ?" I had those things with
and to protect myself in case I should be attackneclafaety,
was afraid that I was found out. I showed these things
to Bennett for pastime, knowing at the same time that
I bed. betrayed my companions. This was one of the
men whom I bail engaged to assist in firing the houses,
and I wanted him to go to the Orange 'tree, where I
knew he would have been apprehended. I know Daniel
Barn. I suppose him to be a working man. I did not
show him my pistols on the 10th of April. I swear I
did not do se before I went to the Kennington-common
meeting. I don't think I showed him a pistol at any
lime. I swear that I never said to Burn that I wished
the people would assassinate the police and fire the
h°use& I don't believe I said so to any one, but I won't
swear I did not do so.

E CIDAITIST maLs By the CounT—l might have said it, my Lord, but I
• don't think I did ; I was always rather a friend to the
police, and that was well known. I won't be sure I did
not make use of such an expression, but I d ii't think it
was likely.
By Mr. BALLANTINE—I don't believe I Yer said to
Burn that I hoped to see the police assa inated, and
some good fires in London, and that at the same time I
showed a pistol, and said that was the thing for them ;
but I won't swear to such an occurrence never taking
place. I believe I did say to a man named Carter that I
wanted four desperate men who would do any kind of
work. I said this in consequence of instructions I had
received at the Orange Tree. I don't remember hearing
Carter reply, " Then you won't have me." I dare say
I showed him the plan I had made. I did not tell any-
body on the 14th August that I was going to Australia,
and that I wanted an outfit. I did not say so to Good-
fellow—the man now produced—and I don't know the
man at all. I swear I never asked that man to go to the
Orange Tree on the night of the 16th August. (Mr. Bal
lantine here handed a small iron instrument with a pike
in it, calculated to lame a horse if thrown on the road or
pavement, and he asked the witness if he had ever seen
such a one, and he admitted he had, and that he made
it.) He gave an explanation that at one of the meetings
which took place at Cartwright's, Brewster produced two
such instruments, and told him they were for the pur-
pose of crippling the cavalry and infantry, and he made
one himself, and gave it to a person named Mayne, and
he kept it.
Cross -examination continued I showed the one
I made to several people at Cartwright's, and threw it
down to show how it acted. I expected, when I
did this, that if they were made at Cartwright's others
would be produced.
Baron PLA.TT.—You did it for a trap to try them ?
Witness—l did, my Lord; that is the solemn position
in which I stand.—(A laugh.)
By Mr. BALLANTINE.—I may have said these were
the things to throw among the troops. I did say I had
a great many more at home ; that was false. I have
told several other falsehoods during these proceedings.
While Gurney was in custody I was allowed to go to
him in his cell, and I believe I told him that if he would
confess it would be better for his wife and family.
Baron PLA7l.'—Why do you say you believe, surely
you know whether you said it or not.
Witness—l believe I said it, lam not sure.
By Mr. BALLANTINE—I don't know whether a police-
man was standing outside the cell, and that when I went
out I said "it was ad go." I believe I did tell Uurney
that his wife and family would be made comfortable for
the rest of their lives. I had no authority for saying
this.

Mr. BALLANTINZ —Did you tell him a falsehood, then,
and endeavour to get him to say something, intending to
betray him ?
Witness—He was betrayed at the time.
Cross-examination continued—Gurney was placed in
a cell by himself, but I don't know that this was done in
orde that I might have him to myself. I wanted him
to streak the truth, as I thought it would be better for
him. Thirteen years ago I went to America. I sold
out some money from the funds before I started. I swear
it was my own money.
Re-examined—When I was at Cartwright's in the
evening of the 16th August I know that the people had
been apprehended at the Orange-tree, and it was pretty
generally known at that time, and every body was talk •
ing about it. Carter is a Chartist, and I should say not
a moral-force Chartist.
The witness was under examination for nearly eight
hours.

Jemima Huth, the wife of a coffee-shopkeeper in
Suffolk-street, Southwark, proved that shortly before ber
house was searched by the police, the prisoner Lacy
and some other persons came there. They had four cups
of coffee, and remained about half an hour. It was on
a Tuesday. She did not remember that Lacy came to
the house on the following morning, but she did not at
that time give him any pistols. There had been three
pistols in the home, but they belonged to her sister-in-
law, and there was also a powder-flask. These pistols
were given to her sister. She also had things in her
house like constable's staves; they were made for special
constables, and a young man in her house painted them.
Cross-examined—Her sister's husband used to have
these pistols when he was employed on board ship, and
she had had them for twelve years.
Superintendent Pearse proved that on the evening of
the 16th of August he went with a body of constables to
the Orange Tree public-house, Red Lion-square. He
proceeded to a first-floor room, where there were eleve❑
persons—Richie, Gurney, Shepherd, Able, Richardson,
Greenslade, Burn, Scadding, Snowball, Martin, and
Small. On searching the room he found three fire-balls
made of rag and tow, and one of them had printing type
tied up in it; they all appeared to have been saturated
with turpentine. Richie was sitting close to the place
where he found the fire-balls, and upon searching his
person he found two knives. Richie's hat also smelled
of turpentine. Inspector Marsh asked Richie where he
lived, but he refused to tell him, and he afterwards said
that he had just come from France. The :door of the
room was unlocked, and, when the police went in, all the
men appeared to be conversing together.
James Thompson, a poliee-sergeant, proved that he
searched a lodging occupied by Richie, in Cross-court,
Russell-court, Drury-lane, after he was arrested on the
evening of the 16th of August, and found 168 cartridges,
four bullet-moulds, four bullets, three combustible balls
made of pitch with a fuzee running through the centre,
a powder-horn, and some gunpowder in a quart wine-
bottle. He also found a bayonet, a ladle for melting
lead, a quantity of tow, some shot, a piece of lead, and a
quantity of percussion-caps. He likewise found a piece
of paper with some pencil writing on it, and some books
upon the subject of the Charter.
Cross-examined—He searched Cuffey's garret, but he
did not produce when he was before examined some
papers which he found there.
Mr. BALLANTINE requested that they might be pro-
duced.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL snid they should all be
handed over to the Learned Counsel in the course of a
short time.
Mr. J. Bowline deposed, that on the 15th of August
he was put in possession of the Orange Tree public-
house. On the following day, about three o'clock in the
afternoon, a phrson came to engage a private room for
the same evening at a quarter to five o'clock. Two
persons came first, and nine afterwards, and they were
all there by twenty minutes past five o'clock. They
wanted to have a bagatelle•board, and when this was
done it was found there were no balls; one of the men
then took a piece of chalk, and stuck it into the five
hole, and then said "That's a ten—that's a red ball fire
this night by —." The police came soon afterwards,
and all the men were taken into custody. On searching
the room the next morning he found a card of the ad-
mission of Henry Small as a member of the William
Tell brigade of the Chartist Association. A paper was
also found denoting that Greenslade and Burn had
been appointed delegates from the Thomas Payne
brigade.
At seven o'clock the Court adjourned.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE:
MANSION-HOUSE.
Jarman and Harlow, stokers to the Ranger steamer,
from Rotterdam, were brought before the Lord Mayor
under the following circumstances:—
The master of the Ranger, which trades between Lon-
don and Rotterdam, stated that the prisoners belonged
to his vessel when he joined her, and that they suddenly
deserted on the 28th of August at Brewers' Quay on the
river Thames. At the time they abandoned the vessel
there were eleven day.' wages due to them, but it was
soon ascertained that their disappearance arose from the
discovery of 1401bs. of tobacco which had been smuggled
and hidden in the engine-room, and on account of which
the penalty of 100/. had been adjudged against the mas-
ter, but subsequently reduced to 25/.
The LORD MAYOR—Were you obliged to pay that
amount of penalty? The Master—l was obliged to puy
it re) self.
The LORD MAYOR—And you did not sanction the de-
parture of these men from the vessel? The Master—
Not at all. They never thought of going till the disco-
very of the smuggled tobacco took place.
One of the prisoners said, he had tner,ly gone for an-
other job, which promised to be more advantageous to
him; and the other said he had left the ship because he
heard of the seizure, and although he was wholly inno•
cent of any offence against the law, he feared that he
should bavo boon implicated witli the guil:y.
The Master—They made off just as I was going to
pay them their wages.
Mr. Coleman, of the office of the Registrar-General of
Seamen, said the defendants had assured him that they
had been regularly discharged.
The LORD MAYOR—Let them produce their discharge
tickets.
The defendants said they were sorry they could not.
The LORD MAYOR said the case was one of much
gross misconduct, and sentenced each of the defendants
to imprisonment for thirty days for having deserted the
vessel.
The defendants remain subject to prosecution for the
other offence.
J. Bracher, a seaman, was prosecuted for desertion;
he had engaged to serve in a vessel bound for Calcutta,
and failed to join her.
The defendant said he had certainly- signed articles,
and had of course intended to perform his contract, but
he found it impossible to leave his wife and children—
one of whom was dying—without any means of support;
and although promised an advance of money he had not
succeeded in obtaining it. He avowed his readiness to
go in the vessel, for he had sailed with the captain, and
wished to serve under him.
Mr. Coleman asked whether he had not received an
advance note?—The defendant said that such was the
case, but it had proved of no use to him, as it had not
been stamped. He had taken it to the broker, who ob-
jected that it was not stamped, and he then took it to
Somerset-house to get it stamped ; but the gentlemen
there not only refused to stamp it, but took down all the
names and particulars, and said they would prosecute
the captain for issuing an advance note without being
stamped.
The LORD MAYOR said, the advance note was not only
intended for the benefit of the seaman himself, but when
for more than 21. it was no doubt intended to confer ad-
vantage upon his family; and it was rather bard that such
a class of persons, to whom a shilling was an object, should
be subject to a tax. As, in the present instance, it ap-
peared that the defendant intended to go in the vessel,
and that he was only prevented by the desire to make
some provision for his family before his departure, the 1
decision was that he be discharged.

MARYLEi3ONE
Three young men, named Fenny,Dallis, and Pichley,
were, together with two women, named Cousins and
M‘Donald, placed at the bar before Mr. Long,
charged with having been concerned in a most brutal
outrage upon the police.
The evidence in support of the charge, and which was
gone into at couaiderable length, was to the effect, that
on the previous afternoon as Church, 129 D, was passing