The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-07 00:00:00

without delay. He intended to propose the first reading on
Monday, and the s3ernd reading on Monday week, when any
further discussion could be taken. To attempt giving a ques-
tion, as to lie probable price of wheat, would be unwise
on his part. He found that in 18'15 '!he price of wheat was at
as low a point as 355. a quarter, and the average price for the
;year was 395. This was under the high rate of protection.
.51tbsegur ntly the price—just before the passing of the previous
corn Bill—that is, in 1411, was 40s. This showed that a high
rate of protection did not keep up a high rate of price, as he
had already shown that in the:lnce years after the pae'ing of the
previous fish, the prier of e heat wassle., and in 1t442 as high as
675. Is wai because prof/ et i;,n had felted to reiutate the Priee
that he ; ronosed the present measure. Hunch r a system of high
protection, the price of wheat had been 395.; it would not
follow, if after the adoption of the present measure the price
of wheat felt neat tear to 33,. or 40!., that therefore the re-
duction in price was occasioned by the absence of protection.—.
( Hear, hear.) He begged to impress on the House, that
agricultural prosperity did not del) nd en the price of wheat, or
the amount of protection. Door did the farmers, judg-
ing from recent events, think so. Ile knew of eleven farms in
Warwickshire, in which a valuation had en made in Octo-
ber -last, and those farms had been taken within the last fort-
night, when the prepositions before the House were well
known, at a higher rase than the valuation previously made.—
( Hear, hear.) He knew of five wiser farms in Is' ncolnshire,
which, since the intentions of Government tees e known, had
been let out at a higher rent than they were let for before.—
( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") These were important facts,
and bore him out in saying that agricultural prosperity did
not prise from protection, hut was dependent on, and inter-
wove's) with, the prosperity of all the other great interests of
the country.
Mr. DIshAELI said, Ire wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet
whether he had load an opportunity of forming an opinion during the
last six years, as to whet might be the probable price of corn after
les present measure had come into operation ? What his Noble Friend
(Lord George Bentinek) had said, with respect to the opinions of the
Eight Hon. Gentienoan and his colleagues some years ago was merely
collateral to that which he had introducse in his observations. ,lie
(Mr Disraeli) thought that during a discussion like this, an I when it
was proposed to read this Bill a second time in a week or two, his
Noble Friend had a perfect right to ask the Governmeni, whether
they hail formed any opinion as the result of this most important
proposal?—(Hear and cheers.) He thought that his Noble Friend
and the Government were entitled to the information, if the Govern-
ment were possessed of any, on this point.—(Hear, hear.) But the
question of his Noble Friend had no bearing at all upon the merits or
demerits of the proposal ; the quegtion was entirely confined to the
price of corn subsequent to the passing of the present Government
measure. Ile (Mr. Disraeli) had nothing to say alter what the right
Hon. Gentleman had said upon the general question ; it appeared
that the Right Hon. Baronet bad proposed his present plan without
seeking for any authentic information on the subject. And he Was
glad to bear that it would now be of ne use to quote Hansard in the
House.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
nir R. PEEL said, in answer to the Noble Lord, he had already
stated that it was utterly impossible for him to state what the price
of corn would be if the present measure should pass into a law. The
price would of course depend upon 'various circumstances and
seasons.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. FINCH said that it had been stated by the Right Honourable
Baronet, that those who had advocated the repeal of the corn-news
should be responsible for au answer to the question. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had saki that he would not rob those gentlemen of the
merit which they seemed to have gained in the eyes of the country.
Ile (Mr. Finch) was sorry is say that a more unsatisfactory answer
than that given by the Right Hon. Gentleman in reply to the Noble
Lord had never been given by any Hon. Umber in that House.
—(siear, hear)—because every one knew that the price of wheat
varied with circumstances—(Laughter)—and with the seasons.
But still they might have taken the average ; in some years it
was as low as 395. per quarter, and in ethers it had risen to Us., all
of winch was of course owing to the seasons.—(Hear, hear.) A
farmer of course took " all these circumstances and seasons" into
consideration when he was about to take the average price of corn.
But there were other circu Instances which affected the price of
wheat, all of which might, and should have been ascertained by the
Government. He should have thought that the Government, before
they proposed this measure, which would affect the interests of one-
half at least of the people of the United Kingdom, would have taken
the trouble of folly informing themselves of the consequences of this
measure. The Right Hon. Baronet hind said that he was anxious to
give the cc years' breathing time to the landlords, for the purpose of
enttring into arrangements with their tenants ; but how was it pos-
sible for them to make any such arrangements, when the Right
Hen. Baronet himself confessed his ignorance of the results of his
measures? And as the Right Hon. Gentleman was in ignorance
upon this point, he begged leave to ask the Hon. Member for Mock-
port (Mr. Cobden) what his opinions were as to the average prire of
corn after the passing of the Ministerial measure?—(Hear, hear.)
Several II an Members now cried out " Cobden, Cobden," but that
lion. Member not rising,
Lord G. BEN TINCK rose, and said that the Right Hon. Baronet
had misunderstood his question. He (Lord G. Bentinck) conceived
that he had a right to ask the First Minister of the Crown the ques-
tion which he had proposed, and he also thought the country was
entitled to an answer betbre the Bill went to a second reading.—
(Cries of " Oh, oh," from the Opposition.) Yes, he repeated, that
the country was entitled to en answer as to what would be tne
average price of corn in the event of the Bill passing into a law.
111 r. CUR T E IS—I wish to ask— (Order, order) -if there is any
quevion before the House?
The SPEAKER—Yes, there is a question before the House, of
which a regular nii.tke has been given.
Lord G. BENTCNCK continued to say that the First Minister of
the Crown was homed to give au answer to the question which ha
sso;tosut. Ile \voted tate, for example, such a year as 1636, to
which his Right Hon. Friend had adverted, when the price of wheat
was at h'js., and he would now ask whether, in such a year, after
the removal of protection, the price would be So., 10s., or 15s ? He
thought that the question was perfectly clear, and it was one, too,
which his Right lion Friend was not afraid to answer in the year
1842,—(Cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter from the protectionists.)
Sir It. PEEL sail that h was impossible fur him to give any gua-
rantee far the prince of wheat in the event of the Bill being passes.
No act of the Legislature could give any such guarantee; nor had
he attempted to give any such guarantee in the year 1842. Ile
thought it was highly probable that after the withdrawal of protec-
tion there would he a succession of lower enarketnathan any which
we had had in former years. He was not at all prepared to admit
that the average price of corn would be lower than 395., but it was
very difficult, es he said before, to make any correct ealculations on
that subject.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. V iLLIEUS—The lion. Gentleman seems to think that the re-
sponsibility of this corn question attaches to us.
An HON. Memnsat—Yes, the Right Hon. Baronet has told us so.
Mr. VILLIERS—And he wishes to know what will be the effect of
:: cieweittihurtasis‘ s,m ia to fire alofper,ovtiect giloann.aioNeol, illustrateprLent.
A person the qeurestns thationby
aail once given aims to a beggar—(Laughter)—who had persecuted
wins in soliciting them ; after he had given them, asked the beggar
what he should have done if he had not given him the alms? "Why,"
he said, " I should have been obliged to work."—(Cheers, and laugh-
ter.) Now, the Hon. GenLeman wanes to know what will become
of him if protection is withdrawn.—(Hear, hear.) Why lie will be
obliged to look after his own property, and cultivate it much better,
and perhans Inc will be a richer and a happier man.—(Laughter,
and cheers.)
Mr. FINCH said, it would be found that the agriculturists had
worked a great deal harder.—(Bear, hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORP said, it was titan}, impossible for him to
support her Majesty's Government cr the Hon. Gentlemen opposite.
lie had ventured two or three nights ago to express his astonishment
with regard to the conduct of the present Government, and the
lamentable state of the Treasury benches. The Right Hon.
Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, hod treated him in the
way that he generally did—with silence. The Right Hun. Baronet
the Secretary of State for the Home Department had treated him in
similar manner. Those Right Hon. Gentlemen might perhaps con-
sider that he was without precedent, and that he had cut some im-
pertinent question to them. He was not without procedent.—(Hear,
tear.) He would take the opportunity of quoting from two Parlia-
.nentary records, the accuracyjof which could be vouched for, to show
stoat a similar question had been proposed to her Majesty's Govern-
ment by Lord Darlington, when the Noble Lord the Member fer
London was in office. The Hon. Member then proceeded, amidst
loud and repeated cries of "Order, order," and "Question, question,"
to read the extracts in question, and interspersed the reading of them
with several observations, which created muds laughter. At the
conclusion of the extracts, he proceeded to say that he was anxious
to know where was the Secretary for Ireland, the Secretary for the
Colonies, and many other Hon. Gentlemen who were Members of
the present Government, and who had not been able to obtain
seats in the House, and who, for his own part, he
should say had very little chance of ever being so fortunate. There
was nothing that an Englishman disliked so much as tergiversation.
- (Much laughter.) John Bull; if he hail known anything of him, was
as straightforward sort of a man ; he could not submit to duplicity
or treachery—he could not, in fact, submit to that line of conduct
which had been adopted by the present Government; he hated every-
thing that was sought to be done by unfair and unconstitutional
means. He once thought very different of the Right lion. Baronet.
I.le never thought that he should put any questi n to the Right
lion. Baronet without receiving an honourable, straightforward
answer—(" Hear, hear," from Sir R. Peel) The Gallant Member
caused consl.ierable laughter by a contemptuous waive of the hand
At the cheer of the Right lion, Baronet, and concluded his speech by
the ejaculation of "God deliver me from such company."
Sir ROBERT PEEL stated in reply to the Gallant Member,
that the vacancy in the office of the Chief Commissioners of Woods
and Forests would no doubt be filled up by Monday next. If the
Gallant Member goes further, and asks when the other members of
the Cabinet will take their seats, I will tell him that I cannot give
him a positive answer. But one thing I can assure the Gallant
Member, that if he would vacate his seat, and accept the Chiltern
Hundreds, Into Noble Friend, the Secretary for Ireland, would have
no objections to stand far the city of Lincoln.—(Loud cheering.)
Colonel SIBTILORP said, that he put no question to the Right
Horn. Baronet. But with reference to his accepting the office of the
stewardship of the Children Hundreds, he believed that the office
was in the power of the Government to bestow, upon application
made to the Government ?—(Addressing Sir Robert Peel)—" Ain I
not right ?"
Sir ROBERT PEEL—Yes.
Colonel SIIITHOUP—Then I'll never ask them.—(Great
Aughter.) I will never make application to the Govern-
ment for any favour. I will not submit to the disgrace
tf malting an al:plieation to a treacherous Government which I hate.
I will tell him however, that I wish to dissolve the Parliament.
I don't care it' the Right Hon. Baronet himself cones with all the
irons pia expeetation he holds cut to the citizens of Lineolu.—(ltc-
',wed laughter,) I will tell the R ght Ron. Baronet that I never
tribe I any one. I stand upon mine own honour and integrity. I
;nave no treasury seats to offer. I have nothing to offer them but
ny conduct, principle, and consistency —(Cheers from the protec-
tionists.) I wish he would dissolve the Parliament. Let him then
send down whom lie will, and I will stand the trial again for the
ity of Lincoln, whirls I have had the honour to represent for the
last twenty years, and my ance,tors before me for a century and a
calf.—(Renewed cheering.) I care net, either, for all the bri ery of
he League.—(Loud laughter.) I defy them.—(Renewed laughter.)
I will stand upon my awn character ; and now, sir, (alluding to Sir
it. Peel) send down yoar Secretary for Ireland, I will put you to
the trial, and you will find, when the day arrives, that you will re-
gret the day when you offered to contest whit me the city of Lincoln.
floe electors of Lincoln, sli, are proof against your bribery and plan-
Ole promises ; they are guided by sound and conscientious prin-
ciples.
Mr. B. DISRAELI said that he thought the question of the
Gallant -Member was rather out of place. The House had before it
a resolution submitted by the Ministers of the Crown. It is our duty
to inquire if the< are responsible to both Houses of Parliament for
:lie introduction of these measures. The gallant officer had resin to
he House come account of what had occurred in the year 1835,
vhich must be admitted as fact. Time Noble Lords cannot deny their
ewn acts, in; has quoted them from authority, to which he was justly
untied to refer. He would recall to the recollection of Ministers
another instaa, e, which he thought would show them more directly !
she bearings of the case in question. In the year 1835, when an
ilon. Member, the Master General of the Hoard of Ordnance
attended the Cabinet 'Council, although he was not a Member of the
House, ant Hon. Member, if be recollected right, put a question to
tie Right Hon. Baronet at the head the Ministry. Sir Robert Peel
then rose, and said that he had attended the Cabinet Councils. Now
in his (Mr. Disrael's) opinion this was a great constitutional prin-
ciple, and he could not understand how Parliament could lose sight
of such a question, and he did nut see how the Secretary of the
Colonies could take a seat in the Cabinet unless ire had a seat in this
House.
Sir R.
upon several
seLsyteartael oltclgstiotr: Gladstone had attended a Cabinet
Co
although he had not a seat in the
House of Commons.
Mr. B. DISRAELI—Then the Right Hon. Baronet proves by his
admission, that though it eau wrong to attend the Council in the
year 1835 without being a Member of Parliament, but in the year
1846 it was not wrong.
Sir R. PEEL did not recollect stating that the reason of his Hon,
Friend, Sir George Murray, not taking his scat was because ho was
not then Member of Parliament.
Lord POLLINGTON said, that as the Right Hon. Baronet load
challenged the Hon. Member for Lincoln to take the office of the
Chiltern Hundreds, in order to allow Lord Lineolu to stand for that
city as a freeholder of that county, he would ask the Right Hoe.
Baronet whether he thought the Members of his Cabinet had not en-
dured sufficient defeats at Nottingham.
Colonel SIBTHORP said he would stand the best bottle of wine in
This own cellar it' the Hon. Baronet, or any Member of his Cabinet,
would meet him at the Market-place of Lincoln and successfully
contest the representation of Lincoln with him.--(Lord laughter.)
Mr. GREEN then read the resolution of the Committee upon the
Corn Importai ion Act, after which,
Sir R. PEEL rose, and said that he would now propose to take
th 'se other articles of provisions included in the measures of her
Majesty's Ministers, name, buckwheat, Indian corn, and rice.
Mr. MILES should certainly oppose the free importation of buck-
wheat. lie proposed to move an amendment on that question.
Sir R. FEEL stated, in reply to Mr. Miles, that he had tiCten the
iirtiele of buclewlorat from the other miscellaneous articles inn the
tariff, and placed it with wheat. He had entered into en engage-
meat with the House, with reference to articles included in the new
corn-law measures. He would not, in consequence of that engage-
ment, exercise, on the part of the Treasury, tine power usually ex-
ercised in remitting duties, and the dotty would not, therefore,
be repealed on those articles until the bill had passed
through the several stagas of that House, and the Howe of Lords,
and had received the royal assent. With reference to Indian corn,
it would he impossible, by a Treasury Order, to reduce the duty until
the question should be filially disposed of. Ho hoped the lion.
Member would not press his opposition.
Mr. O'CONNL'LL would, say one word for Ireland. Much sym-
psthy had been expressed t swards Ireland, the sincerity of which be
would not for a moment doubt. He would not ask 11,n. Members
opposite who were in favour of protection to do anything, inconsistent
with their principles, but he really thought that the present measure
should be carried as soon as possible.—(Cheers.)
Mr. MILES did not wish to do anything which might be injurious to
the interests of Ireland. He had before stated, that if the Right Hon.
Baronet would introduce a short Bill to remedy tine existing dis-
tress of Ireland, he would give it his most cordial support.
But at the same time it was to be remembered that when they placed
Indian corn at the clispeoal of the country at large,it must materially