The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-02 00:00:00

Janeiro, or to impugn the statement that such a docu-
ment had been exhibited at Lloyd's, and taken down
half an hour afterwards by order of certain members of
the committee? The statement from Rio Janeiro was
confirmed by other letters; and no fewer than six gen-
tlemen had written to him (Mr. Wilson) confirming the
exhibition of the statement at Lloyd's.
Mr.ROBINSON said, as he should afterwards address
the House on the general question, he would rather
defer his explanation till then.—(No, no.) If it was the
wish of the House he would now give it. There was no
difference of opinion whatever as to a certain letter or
extract having been posted at Lloyd's—(Hear, hear)—
or as to the perfect accuracy of the statement made by
lion. Member for Westbury.—(Hear, hear.) His
denial was strictly meant to be confined to the inference
drawn from the fiset stated, of there being eight first-
class vessels at Rio Janeiro unfreighted, whilst all the
foreign vessels were obtaining freights; that inference
being that the reason of their remaining unfreighted was
the bad character of the ships and the musters.—(Hear.)
That was what he meant to deny; and he should be pre•
pared, when he addressed the House, to state his reasons
for knowing that that inference was an absolute false-
hood. He meant not to insinuate that the Hon. Mem-
ber had made an improper use of the letter, or that the
letter was not genuine; fur he knew that the writer
was a most respectable person, and it had been put into
his hands the next day.
Mr. MITCHELL said he knew the writer of the
letter. It was entirely a letter of business, written
without any reference whatever to the navigation-laws.
The denial of the Hon. Member for Poole having gone
before the public, a gentleman who had recently re-
turned from Rio Janeiro had come forward, and stated
that the matter was precisely as it had been represented
by the Hon. Member for Westbury, and that the reason
why the English ships were unchartered was the general
bad conduct of the English captains. He added that
most houses in Europe had given directions to their
agents there not to charter English ships at all if they
could get foreign ones.—(Hear, hear.) Such was the
statement given by parties who had no interest what-
ever in the navigation-laws.
Mr. ROBINSON—I shall be prepared to show that
the statement with respect to the bad character of the
masters and the ships is altogether untrue.
Mr. MITCHELL—I said nothing about the badness
of the ships.
Mr. MOFFATT regretted that the forms of the
House had prevented him from presenting a petition
from his constituents against any alteration of the navi-
gation-laws. Ile did not agree in the sentiments of that
petition; but believed, front the favourable effect of past
changes during the last 20 years, that the alteration
now proposed would be beneficial. From the moment
that our tonnage had been in excess of the quantity re-
quired for our coasting and colonial trade and for the
fisheries, the benefit of the navigation-laws had ceased,
but the obstructions which they created had continued.
Many Hon. Members had expressed great alarm as to
the effecs of this measure, but they had failed to show
any ground for it. Even the Hon. Member for
Stamford (Mr. Ilerries), who had expressed such
great anxiety about the coasting-trade, lad not
been able to show how it would be damaged. lie
was quite at a loss to account for the alarm felt with
regard either to continental shipping or that of the
United States. The returns show that the latter
had regularly increased for the last twelve years ; but
the registered tonnage of most of the continental
countries was extremely trifling in amount. That of
France, according to the latest returns he could obtain,
was only 600.000 tons; that of Austria, in 1838, 130,000
tons; of Norway, 282,000 tons; of Sweden, 118,000 tons;
and for the whole of Europe the total was only 1,594,000
tons. Adding that of the United States, 2,562,000, the
total was 4,156,000 tons, against a tonnage of 4,560,000
for Great Britain; and the carrying power of our ships
was 20 to 25 per cent. greater than that of foreign ves-
sels. After advancing so far as we had done in free
trade, this measure could not be longer delayed. We
were bound to give it to our colonies ; and the only
question that remained was whether we would abolish
this foolish and destructive law for the long voyage.
Though he was highly favourable to this mea-
sure as a whole, many of its details seemed
to him to require consideration. Let the marine of
this country be relieved from all unnecessary taxa-
tion, and it would be a benefit, rather than an injury, to
expose it to free competition with that of other countries.
At present the marine of this country paid a tax of
400,0001. per annum for light dues, one-fourth of which
would suffice. It was proposed to allow the registration
of foreign built ships as British ships, where they be-
longed ,to British owners. This would be the only in-
stance in which the importation of a foreign manufac-
tured article was allowed without paying a duty of ten
per cent. It had been alleged that the Americans would
engross a great portion of the carrying trade of our
West India colonies. But, looking at what had taken
taken place in Canada, where the trade was already open,
he did not think this at all likely. As to the China
trade, he did not think the Americans would ever suc-
cessfully compete with us there; for America had very
little produce to send to China, and consequently could
not bring much back. In regard to the China trade, he
thought that this measure would be very beneficial, be-
cause at present there was frequently a deficiency of
ships to bring produce from China, which this measure
would tend to supply. He did not believe that the mea-
sure would be detrimental to British shipping, and he
would, therefore, give it his cordial support.
Mr. ROBINSON did not think there ever was a mea-
sure submitted to the House involving such momentous
consequences which was supported by such feeble argu-
ments. The Right Hon. Gentleman presented a peti-
tion the other evening, signed by 72 bankers, mer-
chants, &e., of London, in favour of the measure. He
looked over the names attached to that petition, and he
found that there were but few of the large merchants of
London to be found in it.
Mr. LABOUCHERE—The Governor and Deputy-
Governor of the Bank of England.
Mr. ROBINSON—It was principally signed by soli-
citors, tradesmen, and shopkeepers. But what would
the Right Hon. Gentleman say to the petition which had
been presented to the House by the Right Hon. Gentle-
men the Member for Stamford, which was signed by
1,900 of the principal bankers, merchants, and traders of
London ?—(Hear, hear.) He would find that the names
attached to that petition far outweighed those appended
to the petition he presented. And with regard to peti-
tions generally on the subject, those against the mea-
sure were far more numerous than those presented in its
favour.—(Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman
said that Jamaica and Canada petitioned in favour of the
measure. That was true : but their object in doing so
was to indemnify themselves at the expense of the
Brttish shipowners for the loss which they suffered
from the free•trade legislation of that House. He
therefore attached no importance to the applications
from those places. The Right Hon. Gentleman then
spoke of a menace from Prussia if they did not alter
their navigation-laws. He hoped that this country had
not yet fallen into such a position that they would he
required to alter their policy with respect to commerce
and navigation at the menace of Prussia or any other
state.—(Hear, hear.) Prussia had nothing to offer
them in exchange; besides that, the policy of Prussia,
as the principal state of the Zollverein, was not such as
should induce them to pass a measure for her benefit.
-The Right Hon. Gentleman said also that the United
States promised to reciprocate if they passed this mea-
sure. He had watched for several years the legislation
of that country, and he could not see anything like a li-
beral commercial policy in her measures. After the intel-
ligence of the intention of the Government of this country
to alter the navigation-laws had reached America, one of
the most respectable papers of Washington expressed its
delight "because," it said,"the enterpriseof our merchants,
and the advantages we enjoy, will enable us to acquire
a large portion of the trade with the British colonies."
—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Robinson) believed the effect
of this measure would be to throw the whole of the in-
ter-colonial trade into the hands of the Americans, be-
cause, situated as America was in respect to those
colonies, it would be impossible for the British ship-
owner to compete with her. From the time of Wash-
ington to that of Mr. Polk the object of the American
Republie was to create a powerful marine force ; and
this measure, if unhappily it should pass, would greatly
contribute to that result. As America had not the least
advantage to offer them in return they were not called
upon to pass such a measure as the present. He com-
plained of the mode and means adopted by the Govern-
ment to carry their measure—ho alluded more particu-
larly to the letter which had been sent to their consuls
abroad. So far, however, from the consuls having
reported universally against British ship•reasters, they
had frequently given reports favourable to them. He
maintained, however, that British consuls, who
were generally persons who once belonged to the army,
were not the fittest judges on such a subject. If the
Government wished for correct information they
should not have sent the leading letter which Mr.
Murray wrote.—(Hear.) Was it worthy the Govern-
ment to seek to blacken the character of respectable
men ?—(Hear.) There were some amongst them who
might be liable to animadversion, but on the whole the
masters of British ships were as respectable as any other
class of persons.—(Hear.) Tho lion. Gentleman then
proceeded to read extracts from the letters of the consuls
in reply to the letter which had been addressed to them.
Mr. Brooker, the consul at Cronstadt, said that for 59
years only two cases bad occurred there of masters ob •
strutting the custom-house officers. Two men had been
accused of theft. This was all that could be alleged
against British seamen in Cronstadt for a period of 59
years, although there were 500 ships a year there on the
average, with crews amounting to 295,000.—(Hear,
hear.) Colonel Whitehead, of Archangel, said that
there were a few cases of charges against British mas •
ters, but they were comparatively rare. Colonel Wright,
of Riga, Mr. Games, of Odessa, Consul Liddel, of Memel,
and Mr. M'Gregor, of Elsineur, made reports of a similar
nature.

An Hort. MEMBER hero moved that the House be
counted. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but the
requisite number of Members being present,

Mr. ROBINSON continued his address by saying he
was surprised that on so important a subject—one which
it was desirable to have fully discussed—an attempt
should have been made to count out the house.--(Hear,
hear.) He would read no more of the consul's reports,
but would observe merely that they were not generally
unfavourable to British shipmasters. Nov, in reference
to the statement of the Hon. Gentleman t.pposite, that
British vessels could not get freighted at Rio Janeiro in
consequence of the bad character of the vessels, whilst
foreign vessels readily got freighted, he begged to say
that he had received a letter dated the Ist of April (the
very date to which the Hon. Gentleman referred), in
which it was stated that the reasons why the British
vessels were not freighted was, that the masters would
net accept the low freightage offered them. —(Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Member had accepted his information too
readily and too credulously, and he ought to have taken
some pains to ascertain, not only that the fact was cor-
rect, but that the inference he drew was warranted,
Mr. WILSON—It is not my inference.