The Sun.
London, England, 1848-03-29 00:00:00

(lean) It had been his good fortune to be on the best
terms with the Board of Trade, and it was his bounden
duty to say that that Board executed the business of
railways far better than the existing Commission. He
was sure that a large and a very important saving might
be effected by the abolition of the Board.

Mr. V. SSIITH said the tendency of the Hon. Mem-
ber's speech was to get rid of all supervision and control.
—(No, no.) For his part he thought supervision abso-
lutely necessary for the sake and safety of the public.
Ho cared not whether it was in the Board of Trade, or
any other authority; but control, he felt assured, was
the one thing wanting.
Mr. GLADSTONE thought it necessary that, before
all things, they should remember that the question now
was not whether there should be some sort of coat rol,
but whether the present description of control should
continue. He sincerely wished, after what he
had heard, he could desire the withdrawal of
this motion. But he thought there was some-
thing primarily wrong in the existing system.
The Act proceeded on the supposition that
Government was to exercise a very great control; but
the limits of that control were not defined before the
Commission was appointed. The consequence was a
failure. Powers were demanded which the House re-
fused to give; and it was clear that, at this time, those
powers would not be conceded. Then, if Parliament was
not prepared to give those powers, they were not justi-
fied in maintaining the authority which was originally
designed to carry them into effect. For his own part he
could not at all understand why the Board of Trade
should not undertake all this business. That depart-
ment was by no means overcharged with business. This
very year it had happened that the President of the
Board of Trade had conducted all the Parliamentary
business of the Colonial-office in the absence of the
Member for Kinsale; and surely, if he had time for that,
he could find time for the business of railways. The
duties now divided between the President and the Vice-
President of the Board of Trade, the Master of the Mint,
and the Chief Commissioner of Railways, were all at one
time performed by his Right lion. Friend the Member
for Dover. There was every prospect that the business
would be still easier than it was wont to be, and that it
might be executed with perfect ease and satisfaction in
one or two apartments of the Board of Trade.
Mr. HUME said it was quite refreshing to hear such
advocacy of economy. He hoped they should have
many repetitions of the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech.
He bad agreed to the appointment of the Commission
under the strong impression that further powers were
requisite and ought to be given; but he had now ar-
rived at the conclusion that the department might pro-
perly merge in the Board of Trade. After what had
passed he hoped the Commission would be broken up as
a matter of course. _ _

Mr. F. T. BARING quite concurred in the statement
that this board had been constituted with the expectation
that a greater control over railways should be vested in
it; and if those powers were not to be given, certainly
the machinery of the board was much too intricate and
costly for existing purposes. But his impression was,
that a time might come when an extension of the powers
of this board might be demanded. His impression cer-
tainly was, that it was injudicious to vest railway busi-
ness in the Board of Trade. By having the business in
one office he thought it could be much mote satisfac-
torily transacted than by vesting it in a variety of diffe-
rent authorities.

Sir J. GRAHAM did not think that this was the fit
opportunity for considering whether a new office should
be created. The time had come when all needless ex-
penditure ought to be checked.—(Hear, hear.) It was
quite clear that two years ago they had created a new
office without delegating to it the performance of any
duties whatever. This was not the fault of Parliament
or of the Government ; but the error had been detected
and it was time that they should correct it. The lion.
Member for Montrose, every one would agree, was one
of the most honourable and honest men in the House.
During his long Parliamentary career no one could say
that the Hon. Member ever sought for himself any
situation of honour, place, or profit, whatsoever. But
the Hon. Member had his hobbies, and the Railroad
Board was one of them.
Mr. LAI3OUCHERE said it was almost a matter of
impossibility to please the House on the subject of rail-
way legislation. Whatever plan was proposed for the
improvement of the system, some other plan was sure to
be suggested. His great objection to the motion of the
lion. Member for Dorsetshire was that it prejudged a
question upon which the fullest information would ere
long be presented to Parliament, it being the intention
of the Railway Board before or immediately after Easter
to lay a detailed report before Parliament, exhibiting
what the board had already done—and he thought its
duties would be found to have been more arduous than
was imagined—and to make the suggestions which upon
mature consideration, it was prepared with as to future
legislation upon the subject. He doubted very much the
advantage of merging the duties of this Commission
altogether in the Board of Trade. He did not shrink
from any additional labour which might hence be
thrown upon himself—he believed he might say he
had never manitested any disposition to avoid labour
in the public service, any desire to secure an easy posi-
tion for himself —(Hear, hear)—but he thought that
such an alteration would not work well. The House
might rely upon it that the class of duties in question
were not to be properly performed by a few extra
clerks at low salaries; they required men of great skill
and of high and established reputation. He would not
meet the Hon. Gentleman with a direct negative, for
the motion was a fit one to be considered upon the full
information which would shortly be placed before the
House; but he would call upon the House to proceed to
the previous question.

Sir IL VEItNEY urged tho necessity of long notice
in h'gislating upon this important subject.
The Ilouse divided, when there appeared—
For the previous question
Against it

Majority
PRINTING OF PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS.

Mr. lIUME moved "Teat it be referred to the
Speaker, and the Committee for Printing of Papers, to
consider and to report to the House whether any and
what improvement can be made in the printing and the
engrossing of Bills."
Lord MAHON, as a member of the Printing Com-
mittee, had no objection to the inquiry sought ; but as
to the supposition that any economy would be effected
by printing the Parliamentary papers in quarto instead of
in folio, the expense, on the contrary, would be enhanced.
Sir G. GREY regarded the motion as calculated to
lead to very beneficial results.
The motion was then agreed to.
ELECTION RECOGNIZANCES BILL.
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY moved the second reading of
this Bill. Ho urged the necessity of no longer delaying
to withdraw from that House the discretion as regarded
legal points, which now so often lead to collisions with
the courts of law. It was admitted on all hands that
some legislation on the subject was necessary.
Doubtless whatever course might be taken would
be surrounded with diZeulties, but no difficul-
ties would be so great as those which pervaded the
present system. The Act of 7 and 8 Vic. had been in
one respect found defective ; the case of recognizanees
was altogether a cases omissus there, so that uo parties
proceeding in election committees, a hether the petitioners
or the petitioned, went upon any clear or certain princi-
ple. Recognizances were not idle forms, but were pro-
vided as securities for the prosecution of any petition
entered against any Member. The 7 and 8 Vic. did not
neglect the subject of recognizinces, but, going further
than 28 Geo. 111., provided that petitions should not
even be received unless recognisances were previously
entered into ; but the defect of this Act, which he now
sought to remedy,
was, that it. provided no practical
means of trying the validity of the recognizaeces so
given. His proposal. differing in this respect from
that of the Hon. Member for Midhurst, was to
give the Committee to whom the petitions
were referred power to amend the recognizances,
in cases which they deemed fitting. What he had
to propose was, that the first clause and the schedule
referred to in it be altogether omitted, inserting a clause
making the Bill universal instead of temporary. His
second proposition was, that instead of sending back the
petitioners to enter into fresh recognizances, the Bill
should give power to the Committee to entertain the pre-
liminary objections to the recognizance:, and also to
decide upon their legality; another, that if the recogni-
zances were found invalid, and that by the laches of the
petitioners, then that no further proceedings be gone
into. But that if the recognizances were invalid owing
to the fault of the examiner, then that the petitioners
should have power to make them good. There would
also be granted a power to the Committee to proceed
to wake the recognizances good forthwith. Under the
present system the officer of the House passed recog-
nisances such as no lawyer would pronounce to
be valid. The Right Honourable Baronet opposite (Sir
G. Grey) had intimated, the other night, that these
propositions were rejected by the Committee unani-
mously. Now, the Committee was not unanimous, for
his lion. Friend the Member for Abingdon was absent
when the division was come to. The reason alleged for
rejecting the propositions was, that, if adopted, they
might lead to conflicting decisions. That was a diffi-
culty to which all judicial bodies were liable ; but an
Election Committee was the only form of judicial pro-
ceeding which the House was possessed of, and more-
over there decisions could not be conflicting, because
the circumstances of no two petitions were the same.
If the Bill which he submitted was agreed to, the House
would hereafter avoid corning into conflict with the
courts of law, and under these circumstances he begged
to move that it be read a second time.
Mr. BERNAL said the Committee manifested great
unanimity on the propositions of his Right Hon. Friend.
When he (Mr. J. S. Wortley) asserted that no conflict-
ing decisions could in future arise, he might be right,
but he ought to recollect that every decision became a
precedent, and was followed as such. He would never
consent to give
.such a power as was contained in the
proposed Bill tote:Committee of five gentlemen up stairs.
pile questions which would have to be decided by them
were of vast importance, and as little as possible of law
ought to be submitted to Election Committees. He was
ready to admit that the last statute of 7 and 8 Vic.,
was deficient in some respects, but a general declaratory
Act would cure that evil, and suffice to render it more
stringent in respect to recognizances. Rather, therefore,
than pass such, ameasure as that recommended by his
}
Right Hon. mend, ho was disposed to say that a
general declaratory Bill ought to be brought in by which
tho duties of the examiner of recognizances would be
more clearly defined.
Lord MAHON expressed his intention to support the
Bill of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Bute,
for it was quite a different one from that of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Midhurst, which he bad opposed.
What the present Bill proposed to effect was, to give the
honest petitioner an opportunity for rendering his recog-
nisunces valid, and this was a good and a proper object
to effect. The Hon. Member for Rochester objected to
granting power to Electiou Committees to decide upon