The Sun.
London, England, 1848-05-30 00:00:00

and victualling of British vessels was more expensive
than in foreign countries, and promotion was necessary
in order that they might be able to compete successfully
with other countries which possessed superior acivan-
tages. A small reduction in the freightage was a small
compensation for the 10s3 which the abolition of the navi-
gation-laws would entail upon them.
Mr. MOFFATT moved that the debate be adjourned
to Thursday next, which was agreed to.
TOBAGO RELIEF BILL.
On the order of the day for the House to go into Com-
mittee on this Bill being read,
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY asked whether the sum of
5,0001. granted to relieve the sufferers from the hurri-
cane in Tobago had been paid out of the civil contin-
gencies
fund?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that, although he might hare been justified in so provid-
ing for the payment, he had not done it, but had pre-
ferred coming to Parliament for a distinct grant.
The House then went into Committee on this

ululated the shipowner and the ship-builder, and that
competition acted upon them as it acted upon every
other class—if he had proved that free trade had tended
not to the diminution but the increase of British ship-
ping;, then he had proved that the national defences
were maintained and ready to be so. He found that in
the year 1820, the whole of the British merchant ships
employed 130,000 men, wlnle in 1846 the number em-
ployed under the new principle of action amounted to
230,000 men. And surely this large number of men
from which strength might be drawn rendered the royal
navy safer from want of hands in time of need. Thus,
he thought these facts must remove any doubts which
might exist as to the alteration in the navigation-laws
Endangering the national defences.—(Hear, hear.) But
there was another consideration which had been very
much overlooked in the course of this debate, and that
was that since Mr. Huskisson had introduced his policy
—a policy which had been followed by successive Go-
vernments, and lastly carried into execution by the
Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, in
many articles of increased demand and consumption in
this country, he (Mr. Wilson) asked it' an increase had
not taken place in foreign shipping, how it would
have been possible to have brought to this country
the increased quantities of the raw materials for ma-
nufacture which had been imported within the last
twenty years? During that period the whole object
and intention of legislation (as especially during the
last seven years) had been to increase the quantity
of the imports and exports. If that was the
object, then it would have been necessary to increase
the amount of British shipping ; and he contended that
it would not have been well to divert, by high protec-
tion, capital to the shipping trade when capital was
scarce for other purposes to which it could be better
directed. In 1823 the quantity of sheep's wool brought
into this country was 19,000,0001bs.; last year it was
62,000,0001b5. Of cotton wool, in 1823, there had been
imported 169,000,0001b5. ; in 1847 it amounted to
473,000,00011a5. Of sugar the imports in 1823 were
210,000 tons:; in 1847 it was 410,000 tons ; while of
wheat the importation in 1823 reached 449,000 qrs.,
while last year it was: 2,950,000 qrs. This showed the
necessity for foreign ships to bring these raw materials
to this country. If, however, the shipping interest of
Great Britain could compete successfully with that of
foreign nations in some respects, there were neutral
countries in the latter had greater success. He had a
return from Rio Janeiro, showing the number of ships
entered from that port in 1845. They were 571 in num-
ber, and of those 84 were British ships. And where
did they go to ? Not home, but with cargoes to all the
foreign countries in the world, in open competition with
the ships of Trieste, Prussia, and other nations. Only
20 came to the port of Liverpool, and the rest went to
foreign ports. He was however sorry to find from ac
counts he had received during the past week, that com-
plaints had been made against the carrying trade of this
country. This had been referred to in the consular
returns quoted by his Right Hon. Friend the President of
the Beard of Trade. His Right Hon. Friend's statement on
a former evening had been corroborated by a letter he
(Mr. Wilson) had received from a highly respectable
house at Rio Janeiro, dated the Ist of April last, and
stating that while foreign ships were getting freight at 505.,
555., and 60s. for coffee, and though there were 21 English
ships of twelve years standing, they were unable to get
chartered in consequence of the character of their cap-
tains for carelessness, and for the bad manner in which
they discharged their cargoes.—(Hear, hear, and cries
of " No, no.") This letter was corroborated by a do-
cument which had been stuck up one day last week at
Lloyd's, but which had been taken down by a member
of the committee of Lloyd's. However, there now re-
mained the great question as to shipping, in which a
great variety of opinions were entertained by gentle-
men of very high authority. Many thought that the
principles of reciprocity first adopt by Mr. Huskisson
should be the principle now to be followed. He differed
from that opinion. If free trade was good to this
country, it was well to make other nations adopt it.
The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Oxford
(Mr. Gladstone), had admitted that, in 1844 and 1845,
the then Government had done all in their power to
induce foreign countries to join them in acts of reci-
procity; but their experience of that effort would pre-
vent them adopting again that course of policy, for after
long negotiations the efforts had proved futile. He,
therefore, thought it was quite right to urge the adoption
of the principles of free trade, for it was better to set an
example to induce that adoption than to attempt to enter
upon any treaties of reciprocity. On that ground he
thought the plan proposed by his Right Honourable
Friend (Mr. Labouchere) must bo more successful than
if his measures had rested upon reciprocity treaties.—
(Hear, hear.) Honourable Gentlemen opposite had
cheered when he (Mr. Wilson) had referred to the suc-
cess of free trade. It was quite true, and nobody could
deny it, that at the present moment the commercial in-
terests of this country were suffering under great pres-
sure and reduction of prices, and that there had been a
cessation of the usual demands for British manufactures;
but lie would ask those Honourable Gentlemen who had
cheered, what would have been the condition of this
country if free-trade principles had not been adopted?—
(Hear, hear.) Look at other countries, and it was matter
of the greatest wonder and surprise that England should
have been able to puss through the ordeal of difficulty
and distress to which she had recently been exposed.—
(Hear, hear.) It was painful to refer to the condition
of neighbouring states, in which monopoly and restric-
tion had been adhered to with the utmost tenacity, but
he was confident that had it not been for the measures
carried by the Right Honourable Baronet (Sir Robert
Peel) during the last seven years, the sufferings of this
couutry would have been greatly aggravated, and he,
for one, entertained the strongest hopes that those
measures, when fairly and fully developed, would be
found to contain in them the germs of great and future
prosperity.—(hear, hear.)
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said he wished to state his opi-
nions on this question, though it was not his intention to
embarrass the Government by giving a hostile vote on
the present occasion. In the first place, he owned he
was astonished that it should be proposed by the Go-
vernment by one fell swoop to carry off all the code of
laws relating to navigation which had been passed from
the reign of Richard 11. down to the:present time—laws
not enacted at once, but developed age after age. It'
was said that this proposal was onlyanother development
of the thing called free trade. Many Hon. Members
might know what was meant by that conventional term,
but he confessed he was at a loss to comprehend it.
He knew that Yorkshire had heaved on one side, and
Lancashire on the other, and that something great was
expected to be produced, for the Board of Trade lent its
obstetric aid, and the Economist Club was ready to at-
tend the bantling.—(" Hear," and laughter.) Ile knew
Also the dogma promulgated in that House, of buying in
the cheapest and selling in the dearest market, and that
it was contended that by such a test the national de-
fences, naval and military, were to be estimated. Ile
knew also that the sages of ages had pronounced dogmas
suck as " Know thyself," " Pleasure is the greatest good,"
" Virtue is the greatest good;" but the simple definition
of the free-trade dogma was " Buy for a penny, sell for a
pound."—(Hear,
und "—(Hear, and laughter.) This was the prin-
ciple on which the Government had founded this mea-
sure, and the only ground furnished for it to-night was,
that by its adoption cochineal could be got at a much
cheaper rate. No doubt that this country was now in a
different position to that in which she stood at the end of
the war, not only as regarded herself, but also in respect
of other continental nations, and it was wise in Mr.
Huskisson, Mr. Wallace, and others, to inquire whether
regulations which were good when the trade of England
was in its infancy ought to be continued. It was felt,
then, that the only possibility of preserving the colonies
was to make them an integral part of the mother coun-
try; to give them every privilege she enjoyed; to make
their trade as free between them as it was between the
provinces of this island; to leave them to adopt what-
ever of English laws they pleased, for though they
found laws some Dutch, some German, some Spanish,
and some Portuguese, they would have amalgamated
with the mother country. But instead of this they sent
them out constitutions from the Colonial-office which
o bt
nol
e Englishmant
and L
were never adapted to their state of society.—(Hear.)
They preferred sacrificing the colonies to the mainte-
nance of the manufacturing system—(Hear, hear)—and
they were going on in the same direction now by conti-
nuing class legislation.—(Hear, hear.) They knew that
no trade could be carried on unless it was beneficial to
both parties, and yet they intended to give the benefit
of their trade to the French and other foreigners, to the
prejudice of their own brethren the colonists. They
spoke of the abolition of the corn-laws, and boasted of
giving the poor cheap bread. Did they think that the
poor did not see through them when they talked of
prideuT hige
empire,itNf i
cheapening the poor man's loaf and at the same time
took They
rinn astww taehy ;ee
againstt
mh ueatiht pgeutrs
manufacturers.
uuarl man's
manufacturers.r' sas
nedmT phtlehoreyey•mwl employment?—(Loud
rnn?ee—ov
sne(aeLri
edsodpu
spoke
okfceshb.eetetoet
setarsi.ng)
Englishathga' artisan or labourer who did not say—not in the
whi which he
heiewsaasm&,es o
language ui g
languageeof Lord B
whichtsco
involvedßacon,
sinehlgeitim.mtoo7uts—e,
" our ingratitude, is only a keen)eniail
(smLpool
fua
tde
dhc
eh
wierietrhei no
tlgoh.
ttohhfs's'°ttghlire'ercaso.tnn'—etes
ever the time came when it was necessary for their
colonies to separate from them, it should not be his hand
that would sign the deed. These sentiments did credit
to him as an Englishman, and were worthy of his high
reputation as a statesman.—(Hear.) But there was one
in this country greater than he, and if it was a painful
thing for him to contemplate the time when he might
sign such a treaty, it must be doubly painful to the So-
vereign who must as such lore all her children alike.
The Noble Lord must recollect how painful it was to
George 111. to be obliged to receive the ambassador of
the United States. And if they continued to pursue the
policy they were now pursuing they could not keep
trhd that
tt saidve.sf
their colonies. They might be rich, but they would be
also contemptible. The policy of their Edwards went
long before that of their Richards. They tried to make
their country great, because they knew that to make it
great was to make it rich.—(Hear, hear.) But the ob-
ject of your idolatry is wealth.—(Hear, hear.) Wealthy
you may be, and your Sovereign may have an island like
Corsica or Sicily, but the sovereign or empress of a
great empire never can she be.
Mr. F. SCOTT addressed the House, but in the midst
of so much noise as to be almost inaudible in the gal-
lery.F He concurred in the sentiments of his Hon.
-ad who had just s oken but was surprised that his
Hon. Friend was P 9 give his vote
not going toin accord-
ance with the opinions THE TEN HOURS' BILL—The friends and e had so eloquently expressed.
-(Hear, hear.) He thou ht porters of this measure have announced their intentie
Committee of ,
t that as the nom
that House had not made- of holding a large te art in the Free d any report on the subject, they tra e Hall,
ought not to be called Manchester, on Wednesday• the 7 f
, t o June next, to
on so hurriedl
y to give a decision
on so important a question celebrate its be • coming the law of the lan d. The Rev The encroachments which
they had already made in the D. Cecil Wray (one of' the Canons of Manchester,and
navigation-laws were not a
attended with the results which consistentand long • d friendof
tried the fact( Ty operative)
should induce them to .
proceed in the same line d is appointed to take the chair; and the foil ',owing noble-
untied that there was of policy. Although he a -
an increase in Britishb men and gentlemen have consented to at tend :—Lord
solutely, yet there was a great shipping a -
falling Ashley, Lord Robert Grosvenor, the Hon W. Cooper,
other countries." The evidence off relatively to
Joseph Brotherton, Esq., M P • Charles B Esq.,
before the Lords' Committee which had been given - •""3'
showed that the „lanai M.P.; John Fielden, Esq.; W. B. Ferrand,.. sq.; Mr.
manning
Richard Ostter, &c.

On the clause proposing the loan to Guiana and Tri-
nidad for the purpose of immigration of labourers into
those colonies being proposed,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY protested against the system
of making such loans to the colonies.
The clauses of the Bill being agreed to, the House
resumed, and the report was ordered to be received this
day.
Mr. V. HARCOURT, by permission of the House,
delivered in his qualifications, and subscribed the Par-
liamentary roll, which he had neglected to do on taking
the oaths and his seat as Member for Oxfordshire, the
Hon. Gentleman when he took the oaths having been
the eldest son and heir apparent of a Peer of Parliament,
and as such exempt from that rule of the House
which enjoins the observance of tho formalities re-
ferred to.