The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-10 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 9.

The House resumed shortly after five o'clock.
Mr. CLIVE moved for returns of the number of cadets
and writers appointed in the East India Service from 1813
to 1833, distinguishing those who were eons of officers
in the military or civil service.
The Usher of the Black Rod then summoned the House
to the House of Lords, to hear his Majesty's assent given
by Commission to certain Bills.
On his return the SPEAKER infirmed the House that
his Majesty', assent had been given to certain Bills.
Mr. O'CONNELL moved for copies of memorials re-
lating to the internal navigation of Ireland.
A message from the Lords requiring a conference in the
painted chamber on the subject of the East India Charter,
was complied with, and a deputation forthwith appointed.
Lord ALTHORP brought up the result of the con-
ference, from which it appeared that their Lordships bad
agreed to the resolutions of the Commons on the East
India question.

Mr. C. FERGUSON presented petitions from Glasgow
and Birmingham, praying th• House to take such steps as
might tend to the restoration to Poland of her liberty and
independence.

Lord EBRTNGTON presented a petition from certain
natives of Poland, to the same effect.
POLAND.

Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON rose to bring forward
his motion respecting Poland. We regret to say, that
the Hon. Gentleman spoke in so low and husky a tone of
voice, as to be for the greater part inaudible. The motion
he was about to submit to the House was for an address
to his Majesty, that be would be graciously pleased not to
recognise, or in any way give the sanction of his Govern-
ment to the present political state and condition of Poland,
the same having been brought about in violation of the
treatyof Vienna, to which Great Britain was a party. It
wasimpossible to deny that Russia bad violated the
treaties. The treaty of Vienna provided for the nation-
ality hf Poland, and for the preservation of her Consti-
tutioni treaty which Russia had openly and undis-
guisedly broken. The world expected of England, and of
England's House of Commons, that they should raise their
voices against the usurpation thus daringly perpetuated in
the face of Europe. The question now before the House
was not that they should engage in war, but merely that
a declaration to the effect which he bad stated, should be
put forth by tt em, and that they should state, what they
could not deny, that Russia had been guilty of a shame-
ful infraction of treaties. He felt great difficulty in ad-
dressing the House for the third time on this subject, as he
(eared it would be necessary for him to repeat much that
he had already said. The Hon. Member then proceeded
to detail at some length the grounds of his motion, as de-
scribed by him on former occasions. His first proposition
saris, that the treatyof Vienna had been violated. That treaty,
is it regarded Poland, was considered of tile greatest con-
sequence both by M. de Talleyrand and the late Lord Castle-
reagh, whose conduct on that occasion did him great ho-
nour. The settlement of Belgium was a question of com-
paratively trifling importance, compared with the ques-
tion of the settlement of Poland. The independence of
Poland was necessary to the safety and independence of a
great port of Europe. This principle was fully recognised
by the Congress at Vienno, where the nationality of Po-
pd; together with a representative governmcnr, and na-
tional institutions, were expressly stipulated for. Lord

Castlereagh, in a letter which he wrote home, declared
the strong necessity of raising up some barrier against the
power of Russia. He declared the merging of Poland in
Russia to be replete with danger by no means imaginary,
and predicted the consequences to Europe, if the military
power of the two countries should be united in one atnlii-
tions an I warlike Prince. Poland bad proved ita'.if, on
former occasions, the bulwark of Christendom. It was
a highly civilized and powerful nation ; and it would be
most advantageous to Europe to maintain it as a distinct
kingdom. This rem the great object of the treaty of
Vienna—a treaty which had been guaranteed by eight
European Powers—which Russia had glaringly vio-
lated—and which it was the duty, therefore, of the
other Powers to enforce. The Constitution of Poland
was expressly secured by this treaty. It was no gift
proceeding from the Emperor's beneficence, but an ar-
ticle of contract. Even hail the Emperor Alexander be-
stowed on Poland this Constitution by way of boon,
he was bound to maintain the conditions of the Consti-
tution which hail been given, in the place of that taken
away. This, however, was not the case. In the first letter
which that Emperor addressed to the Presitlznt of the
Senate, he said to him that the destiny of his country
was about to be fixed by the concurrence of all the great
Powers at the Congress of Vienna.—(Hear, hear.) The
kingdom of Poland was to be united to the empire of
Russia, by the tie of its own Constitution, on which
footing he was desirous it should be placed.—( Hear,
hear.) Similar language was made use of in subsequent
proclamations. A'so, in the address on the oceasion of
opening the Diet in 1818, when the Emperor slid that
Poland would be entitled to maintain an honourable rink
amongst the nations. The most solemn oaths had also
been taken by the Emperors Alexander and Nicholas, to
observe the charter and the laws, and to maintain a
national representation, and national institutions. Who-
ever had firs; violated the charter and the constitution,
had, in point of fact, commenced the insurrection, and was
guilty of all the blood which had flowed on that occasion.
—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then proceeded, in
a very low tone of voice, to complain of the manner in
which Russia had violated her engagements, and the in-
sults and persecutions which she had heaped upon one of
the bravest nations on the earth. The Emperor had
placed over Poland a cruel and vindictive Governor, who
bad trampled on her laws, in•ulted her citizens, and loaded
with chains all who became objects of his aversion. He
had placed over his Polish subjects that cruel brother
whom he was unable to trust in his own dominions, and
shut his ears to all remonstrances or complaints of his
conduct—.complaints that but increased his tyranny.
The iiberty of the pr as was destroyed--the liberty of the
person trampled on—the Diet ceased to be regularly
assembled—taxes were imposed without its concurrence—
the independence of the judges put an end to—in short,
none of the great provisions made by the Congress were
observed according to the Constitution. No person was
to be arrested but for crimes described by the law. Num-
bers were, however, arrested for crimes not specified by
the law—were brought to trial without legal forms, and
before a council of war, convicted and punished, and fre-
quently, if the sentence pronounced was not sufficiently
harsh, the unfortunate prisoners were sent before the
council of war, in order that a more cruel punishment
might he inflicted. There were instances of persons who
were kept in prison twelve months without trial, and
ultimately acquitted, but whom Constantine refused to set
at liberty, and sent off to the dungeons of Russia, whilst
the judges were put under surveillance, and received a
public reprimand.—(Hear,) The most respectable citizens
of Warsaw were taken, and compelled to sweep the streets
by his arbitrary decree, not only without trial, but with-
out even the shadow of an accusation made against them.
How long was such tyranny as this to continue ? Would
the world tolerate it ? 'Would Europe,' allow the rights
of nations to be thus invaded ?—(Cheers.) In his opi-
nion, the Poles were justified in the struggle which took
place—a struggle which redounded to their immortal
honour. The annals of history did not exhibit more
splendid and heroic feats of arms, or brighter instances of
devoted courage and generous daring, than were exhibited
by the army of Poland on that occasion.—(Cheers.)
They fell before overwhelming strength, it was true; but
they fell endeavouring to maintain their rights.—(Hear.)
They fell, but their rights fell not with them ; and he
asked of that assembly of freemen to declare that those rights
yet remained unalterable and inalienable, and that the conduct
of the Emperor of Russia was an infraction of the treaty of
Vienna, by which the nationality of Poland was guaranteed.—
(Hear.) They were imperatively called upon for this demon-
stration. Had it been made earlier; the independence of Po-
land might probably have been preserved, and its wretched
fate averted. But the misfortune of the present day was, that
the power of Russia was so great, that all the nations appeared
to quail under it. A universal terror appeared to seize them
at the slightest chance of a collision with Russia. If England
and France had interfered, as they ought to have done, in the
case of Poland, that unfortunate country would have been saved
from the state of oppression to which it had been since reduced.
It was the undoubted right of the different powers of Europe
to constitute themselves judges in such a case as that of Poland.
They had actually done so ; they had given a constitution to
Poland, which Russia had taken upon herself to put down.
When Ireland and Scotland were united with this country, they
maintained their constitution to an iota. The demand of the
Poles was not now for the fulfilment of the treaty of Vienna;
they asked not for an independent constitution. All their
demands amounted to no more than a mere national existence,
He asked for nothing more from the House of Commons but
a declaration that Poland ought to continue to exist as a
nation, and to enjoy the rights and privileges of a free
people. He would not trouble the House at any conside-
rable length, but he thought it his duty to declass that
Europe had been wanting in its effbrts on behalf of
persecuted Poland. The King of the French, in his address
to the Chambers in 18.32, had declared that the independence of
Poland ought to be preserved; and the cry which that declara.
tion raised pervaded Europe. In the Chamber of Deputies a
French statesman, of distinguished eminence (Casimir Perier)
had stated that he had addressed the Court of Russia on the
subject of Poland, and had announced to it the determination of
France that Poland should continue to exist as a nation; and
that he had received the most positive assurances, on the part of
the Emperor Nicholas, that the nationality of that unfortunate
country snould be preserved.—(Hear.) France was, therefore,
bound in honour to support the Poles ; and it was his hope and
trust that at no distant period France would redeem her pledge.
In the meantime, it did not become this country to be silent.
The representatives of the people of England ought to carry
their opinions to the foot of the throne—that they might be
echoed even at St. Petersburgh, and echoed loudly, as was fit-
ting for the opinions of a free, a loyal, a united people. In a
political point of view, as well as on the score of liberality and
of humanity, he maintained that the House of Commons were
bound to express their opinions respecting the conduct of Rus.
sia with regard to Poland; because it was of such a nature as
was calculated to affect the peace of Europe in general; and,
in the face of Europe, ought the opinion of an English House
of Commons against the oppression of Poland to be recorded. The
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth (Sir It. Peel) to
whose opinion he (Mr. C. F.) had listened for years with
the greatest respect, had expressed sonic doubts with regard to
a statement made by him on a former occasion, about the con-
duct of Russia towards Persia. The case of Poland was unfor-
tunately the best proof of his accuracy. It was an exact pa-
rallel. So great were the injuries of Poland that they were
incredible.—(Hear, hear.) He had before stated the misfor-
tunes of Poland, and he would solemnly assure the House that
he had not on that occasion uttered a single expression which
he did not believe to be religiously true. What would the
House think of the scenes which were proved to have taken
place in Russia ? The Hon. Member then proceeded to state
the case of two children who had been seized one night in e
certain part of Poland, and carried off to Russia; but the firing
on the river in consequence of a rowing match rendered him
inaudible for some time. For the purpose of getting possession
of these children, the Administration published a notice that
the Emperor had been pleased to issue an order that all those
who were unable to support their children should have them
registered in order that they might he maintained at the ex-
pense of the Crown. By this proceeding they obtained posses.
sion of no less than 600 children, who might be said to have
been kidnapped from their mothers, and who were conveyed
in waggons to the Russian frontiers. So long a journey, with.
out comforts, without necessaries—subjected as they were,
to every privation, had had the consequences which
were naturally to be expected from such barbarous con-
duct. Three-fourths of the wretched beings had died on
the road. Many of them were found lying on the way
with the miserable crust of bread in their hands which
they had not strength to eat.—(Hear.) On the 24th of March
an order was published, stating that all vagrant boys should be
arrested and sent to Russia to be placed in the public schools ;
but the order was by no means confined to orphans, as had been
asserted. Children were taken from their mothers, who were
left to lament their absence.—(At this time the voice of the
Hon. Member became totally inaudible.) Poland was not
destitute of institutions for the education of her children.
What reason, then, could there be for sending them to Russia,
unless it were wished to bring them up as Russian soldiers,
and to alienate them totally from their country ?...--(The Hon.
Member here read an extract from a letter of a Polish noble-
man, who stated that an order had arrived to take away his
child, and transport it into Russia.) On another occasion he
stated that they had taken away his child. Why, he asked,
should a Pole, and above all a nobleman of that country,be thus
deprived of what he held most dear ? The Hon. Member then
asserted that the Russians were carrying on a war of extermina-
tion against Poland, similar to that which Turkey had carried
on against Greece ; and he contended that the Powers of Eu-
rope would be entitled to interfere in the one case, as well as
they had been in the other. The cruelties practised against
children he had stated to be such as were unknown since the
days of Herod, and he commented, in particular, upon the
transportation of entire families to the districts of the Caucasus.
—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then read the Ukase
of the Czar, which declared that the persons to be
transported were to be, first, those who had taken part,
in any way, in the late insurrection, and who had not
returned to their allegiance within the time limited by the
proclamation ; secondly, those who were guilty, in the third

degree, in the late insurrection ; thirdly, those persons who
from their way of gaining their livelihood, were suspected by
the local governments. In consequence of this Ukase, five
thousand families were transported from the district of Podolia
to Caucasus, for no crime but that of having put faith In the
proclamation of the Autocrat. It bad been asserted that the
Poles might ret,,rn to their own country. Under the circum-
stances in which that country was placed, how could that be
expected ? Rather than return to their country, it was well
known that hundreds of Poles were working among the for-
tresses of Prussia. He called upon the House to pronounce
judgment upon this atrocious case; he called upon them to
pronounce the opinion of the people of 'England uporl it; he
called upon them, as the representatives of a free nation, to
express their abhorrence of those who had deprived a nation
of its freedom. Never was a feeling so strong over a whole
country as that which prevailed in England in favour of the
unfortunate Poles—(Hear, hear)--and nothing would satisfy
this country, Europe, or tie world, but a solemn declaration
of that feeling. The Noble Lord who had presided over the
councils of the country, and who, through the whole course
of his political life, had exerted himself in the defence of the
oppressed, had, on the occasion of the second partition of
Poland, described, in very striking terms, the state to
which Poland had been reduced.—(The Honourabl, Geis
eman here re..id an extract frorl the speech in question.)
Was not that the present condition of Poland; was there
any thing so nefarious in the second partition of Poland as
the act of Nicholas to which he had already adverted ? It was
evident that the sole object which occupied the thoughts of
Russia was its own aggrandisement. While Russia was
taking our money under the convention with that country, it
was destroying Poland, it was encouraging the resistance of

Holland to an arrangement with Belgium, and, sooner or
later, it would operate in amanner still more nearly injurious

to us. It had encouraged the despotic States of Germany ; it
had lent its aid to the cause of despotism in Spain and Por-
tugal ; it had engaged in an attempt to subjugate Turkey. Would
he go to war with Russia? No. But he would not show that

this country had any fear of Russia, and he therefore called upon
his Majesty's Ministers to acquiesce in the address which he
was about to move. He called upon them by a regard to their
popularity, but still more loudly by a regard to their justice.
He was anxious that they should be armed with a vote of the
House of Commons in any future proceeding which they might
be required to take respecting Poland. Adverting again to
the treaty of Vienna, the Hon. Gentleman contended that the
present political state and condition of Poland had been
brought about in violation of that treaty, to which Great
Britain was a party. He earnestly utged the House, there-
fore, to accede to his motion, the loss of which would im.
press upon the world the unjust notion that the people of
England were not sincere in their wishes for Polish inde-
pendence.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Such being the case, he
trusted that his motion would be either affirmed or denied,
and that it would not be met by the previous question. He
begged leave now to move " that an humtle address be pre-
sented lo his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be
graciously pleased not to recognise, or in any way give the
sanction of his Government to the present political state and
condition of Poland, the same having been brought about in
violation of the treaty of Vienna, to which Great Britain was
party."--(Hear.)
Mr. THOMAS ATTWOOD seconded the motion. No
country had ever been so sanctified by the blood of patriots
as Poland. They were taught to believe that the Poles had
formerly been slaves. It was his duty to state to those who
were not aware of the fact, that the Poles never had been
slaves. They had no word in their language to express the
meaning of the word " slave." It was true that the peasants
of Poland were attached to the soil on which they had been
born and bred up; but their attachment was a willing at.
tachment, and not the attachment of slavery. Poland had
always been the soil of liberty; not merely of national inde-
pendence, for which she had struggled so nobly, but of poli-
tical liberty. In the midst of her contests with Tartars,
Turks, and Muscovites, she had adopted a motto, which,
he trusted, would yet carry her through to happiness and to
liberty. That motto was, " Poland is not lost as long as
we have life," Had England but sent a fleet into the Baltic
and the Bosphorus, the restoration of Poland would at once
have been accomplished. Gentlemen holding certain situa-
tions did not hesitate to go out in defence of their own honour

—and had they no regard for that of their country, in-
sulted as she was by that brutal and barbarous power,
which, like a big bully, swaggered, threatened, aye, and com-
mitted greater acts of barbarity than any European power had
ever dared to do P Look at her declaration of war against
Turkey, which no man could deny was in direct violation of a
treaty entered into with the Duke of Wellington, then Prime
Minister of England. The Gallant Duke—the hero of so
many fights—had pocketed that insult ; yet this same Duke
went out to fight when he fancied his own honour was wounded.
Would to God that Gallant Nobleman had been equally as
sensitive to the honour of his country, for then the heartless
atrocities of which he complained would never have been com-
mitted. True, the Duke of Wellington had prevented by his
interference the capture of Constantinople in Yes, he
admitted this—he believed he had done so ; but what was the
use of that, if it was allowed to fall in 1833 ? If England had
but said in her own proper tone—that tone which she ought
ever to assume—" You shall abandon Turkey and you shall
abandon Poland"—he was convinced that—backed by the de-
monstrations of France, as she assuredly would have been—
Russia would have bowed to the command. Oh 1 but it was
said, we had no money to go to war with. He denied it—we
had plenty of money.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) At no
period were the people of this country more willing to go to
war—more willing to bear the burdens of war—than at the
period when Nicholas was perpetrating his diabolical atrocities

in Poland. Many persons said our interference would lead to a
general war ; but he said our present policy was much more
likely to lead to that result. However, if they could not pre_
Verve Poland—if they could not preserve their own honour
without a general war, let it come he said, and the sooner the
better. Why should England fear Russia? She was infinitely
poorer than we were—had infinitely fewer resources than we
tu.d when necessity demanded them.--(Loud cries of " Hear,
hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Let Government hut do

justice to the people of England, and there was no country
with such resources—such power—and such riches.—(Hear,
hear.) He had evidence that we could pay forty millions snore
in taxes than we now paid.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Yes, he repeated it—(Hear, hear)—one stoke of the pen of
the Noble Lord opposite would enable the people of this
country to pay easily 40 millions more than they now did.—(Ohj
oh! Hear, hear.) During the war, England paid no less than
eighty millions in taxes for three years together, and she could
do the same now if a proper policy was adopted. But now
they emasculated England.—(Laughter.) No Government,
he could tell them, would give satisfaction that did not go to
war—(Laughter)--or: command justice without going to
war.—(Hear, hear.) The people wanted political justice, and
he could tell that House that they would have it from one
Government or another. Mr. Pitt, it was well known, had
declared that, rather than Russia should have one village on
the Black Sea, he would sacrifice everything that Englishmen
held dear. That great Minister had said Coto imperio secure—
(Laughter)—which he would venture, poor scholar as he was,
to translate--" that he would stake the whole Empire
on a war," sooner than Russia should effect such an
object.—(Hear, hear.) He could hardly believe that Eng-
land was the country he once read of, for he could not tell
where she had got such a hydrophobic dread of war. They
might depend upon it they would find great difficulty in mak-
ing Nicholas do what was right by any other means than ex.
ternal force—surrounded as he was by an ignorant and a
vicious nobility. But the moment the Emperor found the
people of this country declaring that his present unrighteous
deeds should have an end—the moment he found the fiat of
England had gone forth—they might depend upon it he would
stay the ruthless hand of oppression and desist from further
outrages on humanity. For these reasons he supported the
motion, and he sincerely hoped that a resolution so moderate
in its tone would meet with the support of Ministers and the
House. There was, he could confidently say, no man more
attached to the present Administration up to theperiod of the
introduction of the Irish Church Bill than he was; and if they
would now only return to the love of liberty and of humanity
—(Laughfr.)—they would again find him one of their humble
but sincere followers ; they would find no one more cordially
assisting them than he would.—(Hear, hear.) They had just
given twenty millions to emancipate 800,000 negroes ; but they
could not spare a million for the sake of unfortunate, perse.
cuted Poland. He would say, that every life that was sacri-
ficed in Poland was of ten times more value than one sacri.
ficed in the West India Colonies.—.(Laughter; Oh, oh; and
Hear, hear.) He said it. He said, that to save the life of one
Pole, he would sacrifice the lives of ten negroes.—(Hear, hear.)
in the eye of the law, he granted the negro was equal
with toe Pole ; but in the eye of common sense and
humanity—((;rest laughter)—he was not. Why, the
one was a stupid and the other an intelligent creature—
(Laughter, and Hear, hear)—with a manly and generous
spirit. He would contend that these black creatures had no
right to be put on a par with the noble race, not yet, he was
happy to think, extinct in Poland. And yet the Noble Lord
could not afford even two millions for them, though he could
twenty for the negroes. But he could tell him how he might
be able to afford even them twenty millions besides the twenty
already guaranteed, and that was by dipping into the great
paper mine—(0h)—which he would have to do yet. He
only wished that his Majesty should be strengthened by the
declaration of Parliament, and encouraged by that to declare
to Russsa,.that he would never recognise the present political
state of Poland, and that sooner or later she must be restored
to the state in which she existed, as to liberty and indepen-
dence, in 1776. He called on Ministers not to suffer the barba-
rian power to fortify itself at Scutari, but, if necessary, to
send an English fleet and an English army to drive them away.
He hoped that the Ministers would not move the previous
question on the resolution, and if they did, he prayed that they
might be defeated. He again repeated, that the cause of
Poland was the cause of liberty and humanity; and as Eng.
land must fight against Russia in their behalf at some time or
other, it would be better that she fought now, before Poland
was finally and completely subdued, and incorporated with the
Russian empire.—(Hear.)
Sir HARRY VERNEY complimented the Hon. and Learned
Member for Kirkcudbright, for the excellent manner in which
he had introduced the question to the House, and regretted
that the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had taken
such a different view, and should have represented this ques.
tion as a question of making war upon Russia, and as if he
were prepared for that alternative. Certainly, if England had
any thing to fear from any Power, it was from Russia; and he
regretted that the Hon. Member should have described her as a
barbarian Power. He wished she was; a barbarian Power.
There was, however, no Power which adopted such wise means
to attain its ends as Russia. She was intent on promoting

civilization, extending commerce, and establishing in evci)
part of the empire the most useful institutions. She sent
abroad the most enlightened of her citizens to collect correci
information of the improvements of other countries. Did the
Hon. Member for Birmingham know that steam-boats were
navigating on the \Volga, and that you might travel in Russia
with almost as much facility as in the United States of Ame-
rica ? The Hon. Member had libelled Mr. Canning, for never
in that Statesman's time did any Power insult England without
that insult being resented. He regretted that the House
should have been diverted, by the observations of the Hon.
Member, from the excellent speech of the Hon. and Learned
Member who brought forward the motion ; for it was of great
importance to give a temperate and firm support to the cause of
Poland was the only power which could form a bar-
rier against Russia, and preserve that balance of power which
it was the interest of England, and a;1 other European States to
preserve. Napoleon had sr Al that Russia would succeed him
in the empire of Europe, and the Abbe du Pradt had said that
Russia and Eugland must contend fo:: supremacy; that there
were only two powers in Europe; and if Britain was the power

that was to contend, as she had always contended, for liberal
institutions and freedom against barbarism, it was of conse-
quence that she should support the good cause bygood means. The
Hen. Member concluded by reminding the House of the terms
of the motion, and by again expressing his regret that the
House had been diverted from them by the speech of the Hon.
Member for Birmingham.
Sir It INGLIS also eulogised the speech of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Kirkcudbright, and expressed his regret
that any person should have diverted the attention of the House
from that speech. It was a speech of the best taste and high.
est talent he had for a long time heard in Parliament.—(Hear,
hear.) On a former occasion, when he had felt it necessary to
condemn the language in which the Sovereign of Russia was
spoken of in that House, he had carefully abstained from
giving any opinion on the subject of Poland itself. He would
now say, that he thought the cause of Poland was the cause of
Europe and of Christian civilization.— (Cheers.) The Em-
peror had unwarrantably assumed a power over it which was
equally condemned by the law of nations and repudiated by
facts.—(Hear.) He had assumed that he possessed it by
right of conquest ; and he might as well have applied
that to Paris, or to any other place his armies had vi-
sited. The phrase applied to it in the Organic Statute,
which was on the table of the House, was, that Poland, by the
law of conquest, was possessed by Russia. But the fact was,
as it had been stated by his Hon. Friend, that Russia held

Poland by a compact with other Powers. The Emperor Ni-
cholas held it by the same right as the Emperor Alexander,
and Alexander held it on the ground that a constitution was
to be given to Poland. Since the last discussion, papers on
the subject had been laid on the table, and particularly the
despatches of Lord Heytesbury, enclosing what was called, by
the courtesy of diplomacy, the new Constitution. If the new
Constitution approached at all in principle to that given by the
Emperor Alexander—though he should regard it as an unto-
ward event that the Constitution given on the 24th of May,
1825, should have been subverted—if the substantial ends of

justice had been obtained, lie should say that the contracting
powers to the treaty of Vienna would have no right to com-
plain ; but when he compared the two documents, he found
that the new Constitution was nothing more than the mere
decree of a despotic Sovereign.—(Hear, hear.) The House
would feel that this new Constitution was drawn up in singu-
lar terms. By the treaty of Vienna, by which Poland was
committed to the care of Alexander, he was bound to give it a
Constitution,and there would be no ground of complaint if that
had not been the case. But so careful were the powers who
were parties to that treaty, that in the first phrase
in which Poland was mentioned, it was stated that
her nationality should be preserved. He must observe,
that the very first word was an unfortunate word, for it

said that Poland should be reunited to the empire of Russia.
The use of the word might open the question of the
former union ; but he contended that, in all history, Poland
never was united to Russia, except when Russia was subdued
by Poland ; but, with the exception of that unfortunate term,
the first phrase was a recognition of Poland as a distinct State
—meaning a distinct kingdom. The Emperor Alexander and
the Emperor Nicholas were both crowned at Warsaw, and
were both bound to be crowned at Warsaw by the Consti-
tution. By the Organic Statute, however, or the new Con-
stitution, Poland was declared an integral part of the Rus-
sian empire. How was that to be reconciled to the principle
that Poland was to be an integral State, and that the So-
vereign was to be crowned at Warsaw? Why Poland now
was not different from Siberia or any other dependent pro-
vince incorporated with Russia, and had lost all the dis-
tinctive characteristics of a separate kingdom. The con.
stitution of 1815 was completely violated by the Organic
Statute. By the constitution, a Regency was to be ap-
pointed, which gave something like nationality, and that
Regency was taken away. By the constitution of 1815, four
members of the Regency were to be elected by the Senate;
and that Regency, so elected by the Senate, gave a separate
existence to the State. Now the Polish nation was to be
regulated by a Regency, appointed wholly by Russia. Again,
in 1818, the Diet was to be assembled every two years, and
it was declared illegal to suspend it, but that was totally
disregarded, and the Diet had been swept away as if it
had never existed. If there was anything which better
preserved a national character, and which was a distinct
mark of nationality, it was a separate language.—(Hear,
hear.) A national language was a consolation under oppres-
sion, and an honour when independent. Oppression itself was
relieved when men could communicate together in their native
tongue. The pain of servitude itself even was abated when a
language was preserved. But the Polish language was now
banished from all public proceedings.—(Hear.) By the con-
stitution of 1815, none but the Poles were eligible to office in
Poland. That gave nationality to the Poles; but now any per.
sons, natives of Russia, and subjects of its many governments,
were equally eligible with the Poles to any employment in
Poland. That was not a subject of complaint derived from
any abstract considerations; but a separate nationality had
been distinctly promised to Poland by the Government in
1815. By that constitution, all o►lices in Poland were secured
to the Poles of the organic statute ; they were thrown open to
all the inhabitants of Russia. It was only upon the faith of
the stipulations that Russia should give a constitution to
Poland, that Alexander had received Poland, and that Nichoias
had had it secured to him. The nationality of Poland actually
formed the subject of the two first articles of the treaty of
Vienna. By the constitution of 1815 the army was to be
Polish. The army possessed a chivalrous spirit, nourished by
an organization of seven hundred years, and was it nothing
that by a clause of the organic statute the Polish army was anni.
hilated ? He would not state that the Polish troops were the
flower of Bonaparte's army, but if they were not the flower,
certainly they were not exceeded in bravery and gallantry by
any of the troops in the large army of Napoleon. Was it no-
thing that the Poles were to be deprived of such an army, and
that the name of it even was to be annihilated ? It was ex-
pressly stated by the Constitution of 1815, and particularly by
the 59th clause, that there should be no confiscation in Poland
by the organic statute—that was made only to apply to certai►
State crimes to be defined by a special law. Now the pro.
petty of any person in Poland might be confiscated. The
Hon. Member referred to two advertisements he had seen in
the Morning Post of February 26th, ()truing for sale property
so confiscated Li Volhynia by General Sacken. Those adver.
tisements mentioned the Serfs, for in Poland an estate was
valued by the number of Serfs, just as in the West Indies an
estate was valued by the number of negroes. The Hon.
Baronet referred to the details of the advertisements to show
that property of all descriptions was confiscated, and the
Constitution in this point violated by the conduct of Russia.
It would, however, probably be unnecessary for him to tres-
pass at any length on the House, after the statements already
made. The fact of the removal of infants from Warsaw had
made, as it ought to make, a great impression both on that
House and on the country.—(Hear, hear.) When he found
that Russia had thus violated all the stipulations which she
had made, and that she was guilty of acts which she denied, he
felt that he had iw other instances a right to doubt the good
account which she thought fit to give of herself.—(Hear.)
What was the conduct of Russia towards that Polish army
which had so gallantly maintained their rights against
her ? The remnants of that army were treated in a man-
ner contrary to all the rules of civilized warfare.
No civilized nation for the last three hundred
years had treated their prisoners of war in the way
in which these unfortunate Poles were treated by Russia.
No civilized nation ever degraded its prisoners, or employed
them in base and servile work. They were sent off to Siberia,
and to labour in the fleets and galleys of Russia, both to the
Black Sea and to Cronstadt. Five hundred were sent to the
Black Sea ; 3,500 to the Baltic; 7,000 Polish troops were sent
to the Caucasus to garrison the block houses. If even, as it
was contended by Russia, the Poles were to be considered as
rebels, all that she was at liberty to do in that case was to
punish them as rebels in the country where the rebellion took
place.—(Hear, hear.) But she was not at liberty to destroy
the nationality of a whole people for the offences of a few;
and even if the offence Were universal, no conduct of such a
kind could, on any principle whatever, be justified—(Cheers)
' "

—more especially was this the case when it was considered that
Poland was an ancient and an independent nation ; that she
was not part of the great empire of Russia ; that at the settle-
ment of Europe in the Congress of Vienna, the kingdom of
Poland was not given to the Emperor of Russia in absolute
subjection and sovereignty, but rather as a precious deposit
intrusted to her care by all the Powers of Europe.—(Hear.)
What, too, had taken place in Poland with regard to their
religion ? He was a sincere member of the Protestant Esta_
blishment ; and as he would view with the strongest disappro_
bation any attack upon the religion which he professed, so
did he regard, with equal disapprobation, any injury or insult
inflicted upon a nation professing a religion different to his
own. The House would bear in mind that Poland was essen-
tially a Roman Catholic country ; and perhaps no nation in Eu-
rope was more ardent or sincere in its attachment to that form
of worship. What was the conduct of Russia with regard to
the religion of Poland ? She had exerted herself to the utmost
to destroy and overthrow it. In whole provinces, all the con-
vents had been suppressed and the priests banished.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) Russia thought proper to declare the convents to
be nurseries of sedition and of anti.liussian feeling ; and as
Poland was to be incorporated with the empire, she felt it neces-
sary to transform its inhabitants from Catholics into Greeks.
When he saw conduct such as this to a nation, whose religious
faith had been guaranteed in the strongest manner, not only by
Russia, but by all the nations of Europe, he must say, such
wilful uprooting of all the religious institutions of the country
demanded au expression of feeling on the part of that house or
no mild or ordinary character.—(Cheers.) The manner in which
the Church of Rome was persecuted by Russia in some
p
nraormt his
wohfia,
iitichdhe a
the Pl
eot ltish ew rr
u,err,c,:v
oi
Warsaw
svr
whose
waowsaes
oimf.
fotohs
rtemssa,:hiaomnoef fhu
January
ilcualrl
yed hiet,

pond, informed him th-t iti roe province 200 Roman Cat,--.
lic convents had been ~upprtNsol, and between 2,000 and
3,000 priests banished. In fme of these convents the monks re-
tqurees, to ctedpeelrebrniastse ion'for the ~,it time previous to their depar.
umass, which was granted—notice was given
for a certain day, when an immense concourse of people at-
tended—mass was celebrated, and the Host carried in proces-
sion amidst the tears and cries of the whole population. The
Governor became alarmed, and sent an officer of cavalry with
orders to disperse the people, and prevent the conclusion of the
ceremony—but so affected was the officer at witnessing the
solemn procession, when men tottering under the weight of
80 years were for the last time performing the ritual of their
religion, previously to their final departure from their home
and country, that he threw himself on his knees, and joined
in the extreme act of devotion, for which he was, on his re-
turn to the Governor, immediately placed under arrest.—
(Hear.) He would not occupy the House any longer by
these but he could not help feeling that no great
national sin had ever been perpetrated without bringing down
pational punishment.—(Hear.) For our individual sins we
were individually responsible, and our punishment was, doubt-
less, wisely deferrci to a future state; but national sins in-

volved nAtional punishments, which could be inflicted only

in this life. He firmly believed that the great national crime
of Europe in the eighteenth century was the partition of Po,
land.—(Cheers.) He saw there three mighty Powers corm:
bined to perpetrate one of the greatest acts of injustice ever.
heard of. But on examining further into the history of
those Powers, he saw the hand of the oppressor and spode*,
fall heavily on them. He saw their capitals, iii succession?
made the prey of a great and hostile power—so /surely did
national punishments follow national crimes. All the mills
tary reputation of Prussia, perhaps at the moment beffife its
fall, unrivalled in Enrope, Weld not preserve its capital...
(Hear.) Austria, the most ancient of 'European Empires,
twice yielded its capital to the mercy Of the conqueror; and
Russia, even the mistress of so many nations, was sailed as
a nation but by the loss of her capital.—(Hcaf, hear.) Whefi
he saw these things, he asked was he not justified in.says
ing that national &Mies involved national punishrdents
(Hear.) He could not, therefore, but indulge the hope that'
this crime—indeed it might be taid, in the language of a die:
tinguished diplomatist, that it was went than *crime, for it wee
a fault—he repeated, that when he reVietted the conduct of
Russia towards Poland, he could not but belie:re that the day
of retribution must shortly come.—(Cheers.) It Sees at lead as
matter of some consolation that this country had, neither di,
rectly nor indirectly, any share in the destruction of Ittfiend
but, on the contrary, that she had strongly expressed her OA,-
nions and wishes in behalf of that brave nation. He did flatter'
himself with the belief that a recognition by that House, in
the face of Europe, of the right of Poland to different treatment,
would not be without its use—(Hear, hear)—and he had only
been deterred from making such a preposition earlier, lest it
should have had the effect of doing more harm to the Poles than
good. It would be a consolation to ourselves to make this re-
cognition. It was consistent with the purest and best feelings
of human nature; and if it should, as he hoped and believed it
would, eventually serve the cause of Poland; he, for one,
should most sincerely rejoice that his Hon. and Learned Friend
had brought forward the present motion.--(Loud cheering.)
Lord PA LMERSTON said, the motion of the lion. and
Learned Gentleman needed no apology for its introduce
tion. It was one calculated especially to engage the
sympathy of that House, and of the people of Ent
he
who would not fail to feel most deep', for an en-
lightened, a noble, and a gallant people, Vile had met
with most unmerited persecutions and misfortune*, and wire
had been!:the victims of a political crime unparalleled
history.— (Hear.) The Noble Lord then proceeded to pate la
high compliment on the Hon. and Learned Member who had
brought forward the motion fer the attention which he had pats
to this interesting question. With many, Indeed he might say
with all the arguments of his Hon and Learned Friend, he
was prepared to concur.—(Cheers.) It was undoubtedly (tile,
as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated, that the king.,
dom of Poland was not anciently part of the empire of Ruesia,
and that the claim of Russia to Poland was founded not on 110
inherent rights, but on the basis, and consequently subject to
the conditions of the treaty of Vienna, to which tire great Powers
of Europe had given their sanction and their guarantee--
(Cheers.) The British Government felt, that ae one of trUes
contracting parties to that treaty, they bad a right W interfere
and express an opinion on a matter which, in their aolscep-
tion, was a departure from the stipulations which thil? Art,
common with the other contracting Powers, engaged to see
carried into execution.—(Hear.) The first article of the treaty
of Vienna was, that the kingdom of Poland should be in-
separably united with the empire of Ruesisl ,try its consti-
tution. If he was called on to interpret the meaning tf
this article, he should be compelled to say that Its true
spirit and meaning was, that the Constitution, whatever
it might be, which should be given to Poland in pursuance of
that article, was to be the connecting link between That
country and Russia. The Constitution which was given
by the Emperor of Russia to the kingdom of Poland, in pufau.
ance of that treaty, should be considered as resting under the
sanction of that treaty, and Russia was bound in good faith to
have preserved to Poland the continuance of that constitution.
(Hear.) He did not think the revolt of Poland absolved Russia
from the obligations which arose under the treaty. In the first
place, he was not prepared to say that the revolt of a people—
and be it remembered Russia in all its ukases and proclamations
had declared the revolt to be the act, not of the whole nation,
but of a disaffected portion only—(Hear)—but even admitting
that the whole people had revolted and the Sovereign had by
force re-established his authority, he was by no means prepared
to admit that such a circumstance justified him in abrogating
the constitution which they had previously enjoyed. This was
his opinion, were the matter in discussion -as one merely be-
tween Poland and Russia, and that no other parties were con-
cerned. He did not think the revolt of the Poles made any
difference. Although, in his opinion, they were certainly
wrong in onerespect, for, not content with asserting their rights
under the treaty of Vienna, they thought proper to propose
the dethronement of the Emperor, which under that Treaty
they were not justified in doing. Still, even that circumstance
would not justify the Sovereign in abrogating the constitution.
But in this case there were other parties concerned in the matter.
By the Treaty of Vienna the assignment of Poland to Russia was
regarded as an European arrangement, to which the European
Powers were parties. That treaty defined the relation in which
Poland should stand to Russia, and on thatground alone, he con-
tended, the other Powers had a right to require of Russia that
the Constitution should not be touched.—(Hear.) This opinion
was one which had not been concealed from the Russian Go-
vernment. It had been communicated by anticipation to the
Russian Government previously to the capture of Warsaw, and
whilst the contest was yet undecided. When Warsaw fell, and
Poland was at the disposal of the conqueror, before any defini.
iive arrangement was made, that opinion was again distinctly
and unreservedly conveyed to the Russian Government. Rus-
sia, however, took a different view of thequestion, and con-
tended that, by the revolutior M reconquest of Poland, it was
put in the seine situation &silk In Which, according to their
argument, it existed prior to .11jie treaty of Vienna and the grant
of a Constitution; e., that all the institutions of the country
must be esteemed to be swept away by the revolution ; and that
it rested solely with the Emperor to determine what form of
Government should be adopted, and to what institutions he
would give his sanction. The reply of the English Govern.
ment was, that having taken into full consideration the state..
ments of the Russian Ministry in support of their view of the
case, England still adhered to the opinions before expressed ;
and that the Constitution of Poland should remain as it did
before the revolution, Russia having ne right to touch it. Aus-
tria and Prussia took the same view of the case with Russia,
whilst France supported the opinion of England. It therefore
became a question for the Britiah Government to consider, not
what it was their strict right to do—not to what extent they had
a right to enforce their interposition, but what, on a general view
of the whole circumstances of the case, in reference to the
state of Europe, and more especially the interests of Poland
herself, would be the wisest course, of policy for the British
Government to pursue. He could not but think, that however
the House might concur in the exposition' of the treaty made
by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and however they
might terminate the result of the contest, and however strong
might be the sympathy with the English people, yet, upon a
calm, deliberate, and dispassionate view of, he might say, the
present state of Europe, they would agree with him, that it
was wise on the part of his Majesty's Ministers net to involve
Europe in a war in the hope and expectation of ultimately
rescuing Poland from the oppression under which it suffered.
—(Hear.) A general war it must certainly have been, when
Austria, Russia, and Prussia, would take one side, and Eng-
land, France, and Poland the other. Austria and Prussia
both possessed Polish provinces, and had, or, what was the
same thing, fancied they had, a great interest in upholding the
views of Russia. These great powers were ready to maintain
their opinions at all risks. They had each of them large
armies assembled on their respective . frontiers of Poland,
ready to march at a moment's notice, and in less than one
week, long before England or France could come to her
assistance, overwhelm the unfortunate Poles, who could
scarcely bear up against the single power of Russia.—
(Hear, hear.) If, therefore, the Government wished to
render the fate of the Poles certain, by involving them
in such a contest with forces so greatly superior to their own,
they had but to declare their determination of enforcing the
treaty of Vienna by force of arms. He thought, therefore,
that, whether in reference to the general results of a war in
Europe, or in reference to the interests of the Poles them-
selves, he had successfully proved that his Majesty's Govern-
ment had adopted the wisest policy by contenting themselves at
that time with expressing their sentiments as they did, clearly
and decidedly, to the opposing Powers. The question was,
whether at the present moment it was expedient for the House
to agree to the motion before it.' It was not to be disguised
that, however they might lament the change that had taken

place in the national organization of Poland, no vote of that
House would have the slightest effect in reversing it.—(Hear.

hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman did-not ask- the

House to go to war for the purpose of enforcing their views•
lie would ask them whether it was likely that a
siecrreatio.tiet:
the opinion of that House would have seutrocc,iltntihanwetcerirguelltituwieontts.tt.hple.
I,tiuoissksiatriainGeoesveorfnmEieignltaansdtaonidndlu,reaencthe_eristacpt,:htio,s,roxet,agimafore,utonfdtdefdlitilto:,
retrace steps taken in opposition to thettrtihisittroig:tunriepeated re_
: :),y,er.intttthee
eopiflersoonnoaruligefeerapnlaitnrsgt
000fffilTtaihdncidv.ildthuHalisaihrstioo,4sntararodgnsegaltyieLainl
cpnloai,ltiaeiedosriin7l,at:ol,
were unlikely that
r
tstl:iliasiolnied,ekc,a.ertas..)n,,tda.hataLH,
tdeesiaertwt;a:
dets:pentG,:i
ileteeitsiyitr;alee,np,z
:sea:
or!rt
at
idhiwentidtothhou,oin3creueiggly:
accounts,tirt;:enr.cperotfa :ti their
transportation
rb io:lvellf4raimdt
severity.—(No,
eascFohd,eEn
believed
)lliaenr(edi
With
had th
that,
in
sonto
i:,,_
not altoi,eth..!:

Firapulsory, but were in some degree optional with the parties,
—(General murmurs.) Most of these cases, however, hap.
pened in the provinces which were incorporated with Russia,
and which did not belong to the kingdom of Poland. They,
therefore, were not subject to the stipulations of the treaty of
Vienna, and consequently this country had no right to inter.
fere. For instance, many of these cases occurred in Podolia
and Volhynia, but England had no right to remonstrate,
because they were strictly part of the Russian territory. His
Hon. and Learned Friend had stated that England quailed
before the power of Russia. He trusted the British Govern-
ment knew too well the resources of this country to fear any
nation in defence of a just cause, and supported by the Eng-
lish people. Under such circumstances they would not heal.
tate to go to war with any European power. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was mistaken if he thought the British
Government had any apprehensions of Russia, or that fear of
any country would induce them to shrink from a course of
proceeding just and wise in itself, and called for by the
honour and interest of this country.—(Hear.) The object of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman was not to go Ito war to prevent
the country from recognizing the act of the Russian Govern.
went, or giving any formal sanction to their proceedings. He
could not conceive that his Hon. and Learned Friend could
believe a vote of that House necessary to prevent the Govern-
ment doing that which by various formal communications to the
Russian Government they had precluded themselves from doing,
even were there any possibility that an opportunity for so
doing should occur. No circumstance could arise to induce
the Russian Government to seek the sanction of England to an
arrangement which they maintained they were themselves
competent to carry into effect. He therefore thought the
motion of the Hon. Member unnecessary.—(Hear.) Some
expressions had dropped in the course of the debate with re-
gard to the persecutions of the Poles, and required some little
notice. He thought no blame attached to the Emperor of
Russia personally. It was well known that the present rnlpe-
ror of Russia was a man of high and generous feelings, and if it
were possible for him to follow the bent of his own inclination,
he (Lord Palmerston) was convinced that none of the atro-
cities which had been spoken of would have been practised
against the Poles. It might, perhaps, be observed that the
Emperor of Russia was a despotic Monarch; but when per-
sons spoke of arbitrary and despotic governments, they should
remember that even in such governments things were not
conducted according to the mere will and pleasure of an indi-
vidual. A despot depended nearly as much upon the opinions
and wishes of. those who surrounded him as a limited Mo-
narch. The only difference was (and a very important diffe-
rence certainly) that the despotic Monarch was conelled
in his actions by the opinions and wishes of a few, while
the limited or constitutional Monarch was guided by the
opinions and wishes of the many—of the nation at large.
The severities which had been practised upon the Poles,
were, in his (Lord Palmerston's) mind, the clearest stbof
that the power of the Emperor of Russia was by rid means
unlimited, and that on many occasions ht Was compelled
to follow the dictates of others. The Hon. Member for Bir-
mingham (Mr. Attwood) had taken a view of the question
Which was certainly more extensive than that which had been
taken by any other Hon. Member, but in his (Lord Palmer-
ston's) opinion, it was a most extraordinary view. His voice
was all for war—a general war—(Hear, hear)—and he was
generous enough, while he made his declaration, to offer the
Government ample means for the prosecution of such a war.
He offered the whole of the national debt-40,000,000/. a year,
and his four sons.—(A laugh.) These were the ways and
means which the Hon. Member proposed for carrying en this
general war.—(Continued laughter.) He (Lord Palmerston)
doubted much whether the public creditors would agree to
wave their claims, in order to follow up the projects of the
Hon. Member,—(Hear, hear.) Nor could he say whether the
people of England were prepared to pay 40,000,'1)001. a year, for
the purpose of carrying on a war in favour of the Poles; nor
did the warlike Member for Birmingham state whether he had
Csnisulted his four sons about the sacrifice which he was about
to make of them upon the altar of liberty.—(A lames.) The
Hon. Member, no doubt, had splendid ideas of the manner
in which the affairs of Europe ought to be conducted. His
views, however, were not more extensive than his resources ;
and they far surpassed the ideas entertained by the statesmen
who were engaged in the Congress of Vienna. Could the
plan of the Hon. Member for Birmingham be carried into
effect, his name would be immortalised for ever I At to the
practicability of carrying his views into effect, the House
certainly had the Hon. Member's word. it they wished to
go to war at the bidding of the Hon. Member, his constituents
would supply them with gunivand cannon ad libitum; and so
far as the consent of the Hon. Member went, there would be
no difficulty in obtaining an abundant issue of paper money.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) For his part, he did not think he could
so easily consent to involve the country in such a war as that
which the Hon. Member proposed. With respect to the con.
duct of Russia towards Turkey, he was quite satisfied that
there did net exist the slightest necessity for any interference.
He (Lord Palmerston) firmly believed that the Russian troops,
if they had not already left Constantinople, would do so in a
very short period, and he had no doubt of the good faith with
which the Russian Government would fulfil the engagements
which it had entered into upon that subject, not with Eng.
land only, but with all Europe. He did not believe that it
entered into the views of the Cabinet of St. Petersburgh (as it
seemed to be believed by some parties) to make a partition of
Turkey. Any one who knew any thing of the matter was
aware that such an attempt, if made, would be sure to fail ;
but he was perfectly confident that no such attempt would be
made, and that the Russian troops would instantly evacuate all
that portion of the Ottoman territories of which it had taken
possession. After the warlike speech of the Hon. Member
for Birmingham, the speech of the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Inglis)
was quite refreshing.—(Hear, hear.) That Hon. Member
did not appeal to the passions, but to the reason of the
House. That was the true way in which such a subject ought
to be discussed ; and he (Lord Palmerston) was happy to say
that he concurred in almost every word that had fallen from
him. With regard to the motion which was more immediately
before the House—having stated that his Majesty's Govern-
ment had not only refused to acquiesce in the arrangements
which had been made, but that it was entirely prevented Nom
so acquiescing by having formerly expressed its dissent on
several occasions from the acknowledgment of the right as.
sumed by Russia, of making those changes in the state of
Poland which it had recently made, he would put it to his
Hon. and Learned Friend's judgment and discretion, whether
it was proper to press the motion at present ?—(Hear, hear.)
Would it not be perfectly satisfactory to the Hon. and Learned
Member to have extracted the present declaration from him ?
He thought that it could not be necessary, after that, to pro.
ceed to a division. He put it, therefore, to his Hon. and
Learned Friend, whether, even for the sake of those of whom
he was the advocate, it would not be better to withdraw his
motion ? A contrary course would only increase that exaspe-
ration which already rankled in the breasts of the Poles, with-
out effecting anything towards the redress of their wrongs.
The House knew, the country knew, all Europe would know,
what the opinion of the British Government was upon the
subject. Every object which could be attained by the motion
had been already attained. He was confident that the appeal
which he now made to his Hon. and Learned Friend would not
be made in vain.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL was extremely glad to find that the
Noble Lord who had just sat down did not directly oppose the
motion ; but that, as far as feelings went, there was perfect
unanimity upon this most important subject.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) Many of the observations of the Noble Lord deserved
the highest applause. Some of them were, perhaps, to be
regretted; but he (Mr. O'Connell) would not say that there
was anything to be censured. He was sincerely glad to find
that all parties in the British House of Commons joined in con.
demning the cruel, barbarous, and abominable conduct of
Russia towards the people of Poland. He (Mr. O'Connell)
had on a former occasion applied the term miscreant to the
Emperor Nicholas, and though an Hon. Baronet then thought
proper to censure him for the use of such an epithet, the
Hon. Baronet's own description of the conduct of this indivi-
dual—this miscreant—justifies the applicatiou which he (Mr.
O'Connell) had made of the term, unless indeed a stronger
epithet, an epithet more expressive of the atrocity of his con.
duct, could be found in the English language.—(Hear, hear.)
According to the accounts of the Hon. Baronet, and accord-
ing to the authenticated statements of the facts, the Emperor
of Russia had violated every religious feeling, and had sacri-
ficed every principle of humanity at the shrine of ambition.
The motion would not at all commit the Government ; but
he thanked God it would commit the British nation, and he
was of opinion that the expression of the feelings of the British
nation, through that House, would teach the ruthless, the
barbarous despot of Russia, that he could not violate the
rights of humanity with impunity.—(Hear, hear.) The
treaty of Vienna conferred upon this country a right of in-
terference in the arrusgements made by Russia in the state
of Poland; but the rights of the people of that unfortu.
nate country rested upon higher grounds than any such treaty.
They existed long before, and he trusted they would exist long
after, every trace of that infamous treaty should be entirely
destroyed. The Noble Lord (Palmerston) might have recol-
lected that he was Secretary at War to a Ministry which
concurred in all the measures of spoliation and robbery perpe-
trated by that treaty when he commented so severely upon the
remarks of the Hon. Member for Birmingham. It was said
that the Emperor of Russia was a man of a good natural dis-
position, and that he was not personally responsible for the
severities to which the Poles had been subjected. Was not the
Emperor of Russia an Autocrat, and had he not the power of
selecting his own instruments ?—(Hear, hear.) He had no
House of Commons to restrain him in his conduct if he were
inclined to employ bad instruments, and no House of Lords to
control him in his conduct if he were inclined to employ in.
struments of a better class.—(Laughter.) If the Emperor of
Russia was a good man, how came he to drop upon such bad
Ministers ? He (Mr. O'Connell) was of opinion that he had
chosen such instruments as were likely to carry his purposes
into effect, and that he had chosen men who were worse than
himself. The Noble Lord had asserted that 40,000 families,
who were said to have been transported, had gone of their own
accord.—(Hear, hear.) Never had he heard a more fantastic
idea. The Poles were not likely to wish to quit their native
country ; and who could be supposed to desire a change
from a fertile and a cultivated soil to a barren desert ?
It was idle to talk of the personal humanity of the Em-
peror of all the Rusaias.—(Hear, hear.) Had not the
severest and the cruelest ukases against the Poles
been signed with Nicholas's own hand ? Every circumstance
proved to demonstration that those who surrounded him were
no worse men than himself; and there was nothing mon.
strong of which he was not in his own person perfectly capable.
The Hon. and Learned Member then spoke of several of the
cases of cruelty which had been previously particularised
What could be a stronger case than that of Prince Romanisky
—who was degraded from his rank, was made a slave, and,
when his wife petitioned for a mitigation of his punishment,

I was ordered by the generous, the humane Nicholas, to match
on foot and in chains, instead Of being allowed a 'vehicle, as
had been originally intended? After alluding to several
other cases of individual cruelty and suffering, the Hon. and
Learned Meniber observed, that such acts were derogatory to
the national character of the whole people of Russia. For
his own part, he would as soon keep company witb a thief
who had been tried at the Old Bailey, as with any of the
Nobles who served under an enthroned brute of that descrip.
tion.—(Hear, hear.) shame on the Nobility of Russia! Were
they men, and suffered such deeds to pass unnoticed? If
such conduct was tolerated in Russia, it was the only country
in Europe in Whith It Would be so. A great moral feeling
was now abroad. The Autocrat must be taught that these
are not the days when that outrageous public prostitute, his
grandmother, was allowed to display her profligacy in the face
of day—when the prostitute of five thousand lovers had her
praises sung by poets—Was celebrated by philosophers—and
lauded by orators. That Most in famous of women—placed as she
was in a situation in which her example could not fail to be
most mischievous--was allowed to continue upon a throne ;
while, had she been one of those unfortunate creatures who
walk the streets at midnight, she would (and justly) been con-
signed to the tread-mill, or the ducking-stool.—(Hear, hear.)
But she was enthroned. Therefore, such as she was, she lived
respected, and died venerated. The days when such things
were, had new, however, passed. The days of rash wars had
also gdrie by. Every statesman now felt that war was an evil
to be avoided by every possible means. Napoleon rose and
Shone like a meteor, but, like a mercer, too, he fell in a moment,
and was extinguished for ever. With all his faults, he had
one redeeming quality—he had generosity. England had Ge.
nerals who had ho generosity.—(Hear, hear.) England had
Generals Whom neither the malice of enemies, net the syco-
phtncy of friends, had ever charged with ti,e possession of one
generous weakness.--(A laugh.) The world was now beginning
to appreciate these great COminanders. It was not by a certain
number of horse, foot, and artillery that the world was in these
(lays to be governed. The mode of warfare would in future be
totally ditrerent from what it had been in fanner times. It
would be a war of opinions, not of swords. It would only be
necessary to direct the artillery of public indignation against
the most powerful Mottarcn, and he would be compelled to
submit. That artillery would open upon the Rtissian auto.
crat upon the present occasion. The miserable stock. jobbing
Government of France had disappointed the expectations
of all Europe, for the noble purpose of keeping up the
Funds one and a half per Cent. All parties, however, he was
happy to say, appeared to be unanimous in this country upon
the subject of Poland. The Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Inglis), who
belonged to what was called the Opposition, and he (Mr. O'Con.
nell) Who was of the Movement, or Radical party—( A laugh)—
fully and cordially concurred with all tif, people of Europe, not
in the disavowal, but in the reprobation of the atrocious and
cruel conduct of Russia towards Poland.—(Hear.) In conclu.
sion, he had only to observe, that the manner in which the sub--
ject had beets hit:reduced was extremely creditable, and Met his
(Mr. O'COnnelPs) entire approbation.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that although his Majesty's
Ministers might possibly concur in the sentiments which had
been expressed by the MM. and Learned Member who had
brought forward the ' motion, it was their duty to protest
against the language made use of by the Hon. And Learned
Member who had just sat down.—(Hest.) Were the motion
carried accompanied by such retnarks as had been indulged in,
it would go a great way to destroy the good understanding
which at present eilited between countries which were now hap'
pity at amity. He trusted, therefore, that his Hon. and Learned
Friend (Mr. Cutlar Fergusson), after the turn which the discus-
sion had taken, wouhl see the apediency of withdrawing
his motion.—(Hear, heir.) The beneficial consequences
which might be antitipated from the knowledge of the unani.
mity which pl.evailed in that House upon this subject, would be
entirely lost if the House were divided, and Ministers were
Compelled to resist the motion.—(No, no.) He was of opinion
that no proposition could be clearer than this, that when the
unanimous opinion of that House went forth to the world it
would have far more weight than it could have if a division
took place and a considerable number voted against it.—(Hear.)
He believed that the adoption of the motion, taken in connec-
tion with The remarks which had just been made, would be
irninpatible with the continuance of peace, and of the good
understanding wl ich ought to be cultivated between this
country and its allies. If the object in view were to show
that this country gave no sanction to the arrangement
respecting Poland, and that the honour of England was kept
clear of any participation in the 'violation of the treaty of
Vienna, what had taken place in the House that evening was
surely sufficient for the attainment of that object ; and he
trusted, therefore, that his Hon. and Learned Friend would
not press his motion, as the resu't of his doing so might be to
weaken rather than strengthen the impression which might
otherwise be made on Russia.

Mr. BUCKINtiIi APYTeclared that every speech he had
heard that &ening increased his conviction of the propriety
of the lion. and Learned Gentleman's motion ; and he trusted,
therefore, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would not be
induced to withdraw it.

Lord ALTHORP had trusted that his Hon. and Learned
Friend would have been content with the statements of his
two Noble Friends, and that he would not have pressed
his motion.—(Hear, hear.) The House was well aware
that one of the principles upon which his Majesty's present
Government took office was the preservation of peace.—
(Hear, hear.) His Honourable and Learned Friend, however,
seemed disappointed in the tone of his Majesty's Government
towards Russia respecting Poland. He seemed to think
that his Majesty's Government ought to have gone further.
How they could have gone further without involving this
country in war, he (Lord Althorp) knew not. He could
assure his Hon. and Learned Friend, that his Majesty's Go-
vernment had not been actuated by any pusillanimous fear
of war. But when they knew that the Governments of
Prussia and Austria differed from them, they felt, that if

war were entered into at all, it would extend over Europe;
that, in fact, it would be a war between England and France
on the one side, and all the northern powers of Europe on
the other. He did not mean to say that he should enter.
Lain any fear of success in such a contest; for he always
_ _

felt, that if France and England were united, they need not
fear all the Powers in the world. But although he did not
fear the event of such a contest, he well knew that it must be
attended with such calamities that he sincerely hoped such an
event would never occur.---(Hear, hear.) What was the ad-
dress? A statement of the opinion of that House, that the
Emperor of Russia had been guilty of a violation of the treaty
of Vienna. Now what answer could his Majesty be advised to
give to such an address; or what conduct could he be advised
to pursue ? It was quite impossible that his Majesty's Govern.
ment should consent to become parties to such a vote, and not
follow it up by some strong measure. It was for that reason
that his Noble Friends had urged his Hon. and Learned Friend
not to press his motion. It was with the greatest regret
that he (Lord Althorp) took the course which he now must
take, and which he had been most desirous to avoid; but as
he could not possibly agree to such a proposition, under such
circumstances, he was under the necessity of moving the pre-
vious question on his Hon. and Learned Friend's motion.
Mr. WARBURTON declared that not one word had been
said respecting the conduct of Russia in the transaction in
question, in the truth of which he did not completely concur.
But it was one thing for the Members of that House to enter-
tain an opinion as individuals, and another thing for them to
express that opinion as a Legislature, unless they were pre.
pared, should Government apply to them, in consequence of
their recorded vote, to follow it up by an appeal to arms.
Mr. HUME protested that there was nobody more anxious
to keep the country from getting into war than himself, but
he was surprised at the course just taken by his Hon.
Friend the Member for Bridport. Did his Honourable and
Learned Friend who made the motion propose any recourse
to arms ? By no means. There was nothing which required
such a proposition ; he really could not understand by what
train of reasoning his Hon. Friend, the Member for Bridport,
bad arrived at the conclusion, that if they agreed to the mo-
tion, they would pledge themselves to war. He (Mr. Hume)
could see nothing in the motion but the declaration of the
determination of that House not to be a part3V,p the violation
of the treaty of Vienna. It was the moral effect of the
motion to which he looked for benefit. Strong as had been
the speech of his Honourable and Learned Friend, the Mem-
ber for Dublin, yet nothing could be more distinctly
insisted upon in that speech than the expediency of
avoiding the evils and horrors of war, and of preserving the
relations of peace and amity by moral influence alone.
The conduct of Russia ought to be reprobated by that House in
the face of all Europe. It was a violation of treaties and an
outrage on humanity. The anpals of history did not afford any
instance of more cruel and persevering persecution of a nation
than that which Poland had sustained at the hands of Russia.
Why was the Noble Lord so unwilling to allow this? The pro-
position of his Hon. and Learned Friend was in strict confor-
mity with the statements of the Noble Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs, whose speech was one of the most satisfactory
that he (Mr. Hume) had ever heard.

Mr. STANLEY, far from condemning the warmth of ex.
pression which had been used in reference to the treatment of
the unfortunate Poles, considered it honourable to the House
and to the country. But they were bound to ask what effect
the course they were by this motion called upon to pursue was
likely to have on our already delicate and complicated relations.
The Hon. Member for Middlesex and his Hon. and Learned
Friend who had introduced the motion, declared they had no
wish whatever to force the country into a war; but the House
was bound to look, not at intentions, but at probable conse-
quences. And he would ask if it were probable that the proposed
address, coupled as it was with speeches, in which the Emperor of
Russia was so personally attacked by the grossest abuse, could go
forth otherwise than as a direct offence and personal insult, and
as a provocation to war and enmity? The Hon. Member for
Birmingham had, indeed, expressly said, " Go to war;" but in
that he really believed the Hon. Gentleman was pursuing the
single object to which all his efforts tended. The Hon. Gen-
tleman said that if we went to war, we must again have a
plethora of paper-money. War, no doubt, would be any-
thing but disadvantageous to certain trades in the great town
of Birmingham, thought it might not prove so to ocher towns
equally entitled to their sympathy and consideration. But he
did not hesitate to express his belief that the Hon. Member for
Birmingham supported the present motion only as a simple
means to had to that state of things which, as he thought,
would necessitate an unlimited paper currency. What was
the great principle of Ministers, when they first entered upon
their situations ? Peace at all hazards—at ail risks at all
sacrifices—save that of national honour.—
(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear," from both sides of the House.) Now he as.
,erted that the treatment of the Poles by the Russians was not
only no cause for our entering on a war, but would be no jus_
tification whatever for any such a step. But he should say
more than that, and contend that we were bound by every po-
litical motive to abstain from rushing into any war, the chief

recommendation of which would be, that it had been taken up
from chivalrous feelings.—(Hear, hear.) And let it be re-
membered by the House, that though we interpreted the
spirit of the treaty of Vienna in a certain way, there were
other Powers, whose relations, territorial and otherwise, with
Russia, were of a much more delicate character than ours,
who took a different view of it. And though he should never
counsel that House to resign our own principles, still, in corn..
mon foresight, in common prudence, and in common reason,
we should not be justified in adopting measures which the
other contracting parties—much more interested than we
were—did not approve and would not agree to.—(Hear, hear.)
He asked them, then, if they were prepared to take any
steps whin might lead to a war—a war of principles, the
commencement of which would be fatal—the termination of
which no human foresight could tell? Then supposing they
consented to pass this declaration, how did they propose to
back it ?—(Hear, hear.) You send a remonstrance to Rus-
sia, and, perhaps, receive in return a contemptuous and an-
gry refusal. Were they then to go to war ?—(Hear.) Did
he hear any man say they must go to war 2—(Hear, hear.)
Let that man stand up and avow his opinions.—( A little
laughter.) Let the advocate of war, he said, stand up and
appear as the disturber of that peace in Europe, the infrac-
tion of which Ministers had pledged themselves to postpone
to the latest moment. Was there none such, then 7—(A
laugh ; during which an Hon. Member, whose name we
could not learn, stood up, and acknowledged himself an ad-
vocate for war.) Well, the question, he admitted, had been
fairly answered ; and he hoped, before the conclusion of the
debate, to hear the grounds on which the Hon. Gentleman
justified his opinions. Did the Hon. Member suppose that a
general war would be advantageous to our manufactures 7—(oh,
oh) Would it be consistent with the honour of that House—
would it be consistent with the honour of the country—would it
be consistent with the high character she had hitherto main..
tained amongst the nations of the earth, that we should provoke
a war, and afterwards flinch from it ? There could not but he a
great moral impression produced throughout not only England,
but all Europe, by that night's discussion, and by the unani-
mous expression of the feelings of the people of England on
the conduct pursued by Russia towards Poland. This he him-
self rejoiced in. But with this he should rest satisfied, and he
trusted Hon. Members would not in their legislative capacity
lead the country to what assuredly might produce danger, if
not degradation. He trusted, after all that had passed, the
Hon. Member for Kirkcudbright would yet consent to with-
draw his motion, satisfied with the moral impression the debate
could not fail to produce in every quarter of the globe.—
(Cries of " No, no," and " Hear, hear.")
Lord D. STUART was satisfied that the proposed address
breathed nothing but the honestly-entertained opinions of the
country at large.
An HON. MEMBER said a few words, which were inaudible
in the gallery.

Mr. SHEIL said, the question arose, what would Europe
say if England confessed her inferiority to Russia P—(Hear.)
They were told that Russia and Austria chose to take a diffe-
rent view of the treaty to ourselves, and that therefore France
and England, mighty as they were, must give way, in spite of
the horrors accumulated on Poland. If, indeed, we were
bound to make the selection of ignominy on the one hand, and
war on the other, he should not hesitate in the choice. It
would have been well, perhaps, if the motion had never been
brought forward ; but, having made it, the Hon. Member
could never withdraw it.

Mr. CUTL A R FERGUSSON complained that Ministers
had departed widely from the real question before them, and
had replied to arguments never used by him, but by other
Hon. Members, with whom he had in this no connection
whatever. If the motion was to be lost because two Hon.
Memters chose to pursue a certain line of argument, then it
would indeed behove every man to be very cautious how he
proposed any thing in that House. He had not called for
war—there was nothing in the motion calling for war. What
he wanted was to record the solemn opinion of that House—
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear ")—not for the effect it would
have on Russia, for he believed it would have none, but for
the effect it would have on the whole people of Europe.
Sir R. PEEL said that as the Hon. Gentleman had ex.
pressed his determination to press the motion to a division, it
devolved upon him (Sir R. Peel) to state the grounds upon
which he could not acquiesce in the motion. He did not
deny the right of the House to offer and submit advice to the
Crown with reference to the diplomatic relations of the
country, but he must contend that the House ought to have
a clear foresight of all the consequences which might arise
from existing circumstances, and care ought to be taken
not to trench upon the Royal prerogative. The House ought
scrupulously and carefully to weigh those consequences,
and there ought to be nothing equivocal or ambiguous in
the advice tendered to the Crown. The terms of the mo-
tion were in his judgment both equivocal and ambiguous, and
contained two distinct propositions ; first, that this country
was party to the treaty of Vienna; and secondly, that treaty
had been violated. If the House was prepared to place this
motion upon record, the next step would be to offer an address to
the Crown as to the course in this respect to be pursued. The
language of the resolution he had already said was ambi-
guous, and in consideration of the nation's character, in con-
sideration of the Crown, and lastly in consideration of the
people of Poland, there ought to be in it no possibility of
misconception. The terms of the resolution were uncertain,
and if he (Sir R. Peel) was also left uncertain as to the lan-
guage of the address, he was still more left in doubt, and he
must maintain it was inconsistent with the character of
the Commons' House of Parliament to present such an ad-
dress. If the subject was a matter of personal interest to the
country, what was the course to be pursued by the Legisla.
tore ? Should they not say that the rights and privileges of
the nation had been violated by foreign Powers, and that the
House would support the Crown in vindication of the national
honour ? The Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Fergusson) had
said that he did not anticipate any advantage from his motion.
Why, then, should the House enter into a discussion as to
whether the Emperor of Russia had acted right or wrong in
the exercise of his power over his subjects ? He (Sir R. Peel)
could not acquiesce in the motion; but if the national faith
required any such interference he was prepared to propose a
much stronger measure. While he could not support the re.
solution, he begged distinctly to state, that he participated in
all the sentiments which had been expressed on the gallantry
of Poland; and, at the same time, to state his sympathy and
deep regret for the sufferings of that nation, originating in the
conduct pursued by Russia, if the statements of the Hon. Gent.
were founded on fact. On a former occasion, when the Hon.
Gentleman had introduced the subject before the House,
he (Sir Robert Peel) did not undertake to refute the
statements then made, and particularly that with re.
gard to the removal of orphan children ; but if the
statement was well founded that children, not orphans,
were removed—not, as he had supposed, for the purposes of
humanity—if, above all, 5,000 families had been driven into
exile without any proof of guilt, while he could not conceive
the policy of such a course of conduct, yet if such was pur-
sued, no man was prepared in stronger terms than himself to
express his deep regret at such a violation of the rights of the
subject. He would remind Russia of the expressions as to the
rights of humanity emanating from herself during the war
between Turkey and Greece; for after such opinions then
sent forth by Russia, he was willing to hope that there was
much of exaggeration. If, however, the statements were
true, he begged his non.acquiesence in the motion should not
be taken as a criterion of his want of sympathy for the suf-
fering of the Poles,—that he was indifferent to their happiness,
or wanting in the feeling of indignation at their treatment by
Russia, which he believed to be unanimously felt in the House.
—(Hear, hear.)

Lord SANDON said, though he had formerly supported a
motion similar to the present one, he could not in this instance
follow the same course, as he was afraid, if the address was
carried, it would only increase the painful ambiguity which
characterised the situation of the unfortunate Poles.
The House then divided, and there were—
For the motion 95
Against it 177
Lost by a majority of B2
LOCAL COURTS' JURISDICTION BILL
- -

Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that on Thursday cie should
move a resolution declaratory of the opinion of that House,
that it was the duty of the representatives of the people to take
immediate means forlhe establishment of Courts of Local Ju-
risdiction, for the better administration of justice.
Mr. ROBERT STEWART obtained leave to bring in a
Bill to enable procurators or solicitors before the inferior courts
in Scotland, or the partners of any such persons, who shall here-
after be chosen chief magistrates in any burgh or town in Scot-
land, to act as justices of the peace in the counties in which
such chief magistrates may be ex officio in the commission of
the peace.

NEW POLICE—THE CALTHORPE-STREET AFFAIR.
Lord Althorp's motion for a Select Committee to Inquire
into the circumstances connected with the occurrences in Cal-
thorpe-street was postponed till Thursday next.
_ .

lhe other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at three oclock.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.

KINGSTON HOUSE ROOMS, TUESDAY NIGHT.
The betting has been remarkably heavy at the follow-
ing prices :

GOODWOOD STAKES, P.P.
8 to 1 agst Mr. Biggs's Little Red Rover (taken)
8 to 1 agst Mr. Robinson's Windcliffe (taken)
10 to 1 agst Mr. Biggs's Pounce
10 to 1 agst any other.
DRAWINa ROOM STAKES, P.P.
5 to 2 agst Mr. Rawlinson's Revenge
7 to 2 agst Young Rapid
4 to 1 agst Trepidation
8 to 1 agas Tim
GOODWOOD CUP, P.P.
5 to 4 laid agst Sir 51. Wood's Camarine (taken)
4 to 1 agst Mr. Cosby's Galopade
8 to 1 agst Mr. Robinson's Windcliffe
6 to 1 agst Lord Exeter's Beiram
DERBY, 1834.
17 to 1 agst Duke of Grafton's Olympic
OAKS.
13 to 1 agst Zulima (taken) 115 to 1 agst Cotillion (tn. freely)
13 to 1 agst Dublin,: 116 to 1 agst Miss Witch (taken)

The Court of Common Pleas adjourned this
morning a few minutes before twelve o'clock, till Novem-
ber, as will also the Courts of King's Bench and Exchequer.
KING'S BENCH.—I❑ the case " CRAWLEY
V. PERKINS and another," which was not concluded yes-
terday when we went to press, the jury found a verdict for
the plaintiff—Damages 2001.

Cipr *nn,

LONDON,
WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 10, 1833.

Patience, goon folks, the House of Loris.—no, let us do

their Lordships justice--a miserable m ijority of the House
of Lords have deckled that you shall not have cheap law,
that you shall not have it brought to your doors, that law
is a luxury intended only for their own special use; and
that, therefore, a tax shall be imposed upon it. The Local
Courts sanctioned as the restoration of a principle
acted upon by our free Saxon ancestors, partially
destroyed by the Normans, and the change in the value
of money,—recommended by the Commis.,ioters appointed

to examine into the state of the Common Law—
stamped with the approbation of the m m whose name will
be handed down to posterity as the greatest the present age
has produced—called for by the wants and wishes of the
people—the Bill, we say, so sanctioned, so recommended,
so author'zed, so wished for, has been defeated by a set of
men with as little knowledge of as they have interest
in the subject. We did once look forward to their
pockets not being touched by the measure, as a circum-
stance which might induce their Lordships to have
the discretion to abst ,in from offering opposition
to its passing. Led on, however, by that consistent
min, Lord LYNDHURST, and that mild and tempe-
rate Christian, Lord WYNFORD, a certain portion of
the House have taken a step which cannot fail to sink
them lower in public estimation than they were even
sunk before. What infatuation can blind them to the
consequences of the course they are pursuing we cannot
im igine. To the eye of an observer, who has not for the
last three years been asleep, it is as clear as the sun at
noon-day, that the opposition Lords are hastening on a
crisis which can have no other result than their own
destruction or degradation. Every day they appear to
do all that in them lies to make their privileges, illy, their
very existence as a legislative body, odious to the people.
To take up a minor point connected with last night's
important decision, it will be observed, by reference to
the debate, that the number of vote's present on
each side were exactly equal, eighty-one to eighty-one,
and that the Bill was in fact thrown out by men
who had not heard a tittle of the argument advanced last
night in i's favour ! Can any thing put in a plainer light
the unmitigated absurdity of this privilege of voting by
proxy? Does it not show that next to restoring
the Bishops to the flock they now neglect, it is
of all things necessary to the character of the
House of Lords that Mr. TENNYSON'S motion

for the abolition of this practice should he carri-d ?
With respect to the speech of Lord BROUGHAM in defence
of the Bill (unheard by the proxies) it is one of the most
masterly replies we ever heard. Wee will not do the
CHANCELLOR the injustice of pretending to describe it;
hut we will ven'ure to say that no ma❑ will rise from its
perusal without the consciousness of having enjoyed one
of the greatest intellectual treats it is possible for him to en-
j Seldom has Lord BROUGHAM appeared to greater ad-
vintage—never have his opponents seemed to shrink into
more contemptible littleness. Lord WYNFORD'S cry out
for mercy, as the ro.: was raised to strike him for the
tenth or eleventh time, was rich in the extreme, and pro-
duced a dramatic scene which will not he easily effaced
from the memories of those present.
The first part of the evening was occupied by the op-
ponents of the Bill, and as we read their speeches we
marked different passages for comment, but when we
came to the reply of which we have been speaking we
found that there was hardly an argument advanced by
the Tories which the CHANCELLOR did not cut up root
aid branch. We should have been content, therefore,
with the simple expression of our admiration at that
speech, and regret at its having been thrown away,
as far as the House of Lords is concerned, were it not
that the question is to be brought under discussion in the
House of Commons to-morrow night, Mr. O'CONNELL
having witl,in an hour of the close of the debate in the
Upper House, given notice of a motion to the effect, that
it is the duty of the Representatives of the people of this
realm to take measures fur the more expeditious, conve-
nient, and cheap administration of justice, by the esta-
blishment of Local Courts of Judicature. As humble
gleaners after his Lordship, we would beg to point out to
those who may argue the question in the House of Com-
mons, that one or two of the arguments urged against
the Bill are strongly in its favour. For instance,
Lord WHARNCLIFFE says that he objects to speedy justice
because delay has a beneficial tendency, as tending to the
composition of suits. Of course the same argument
would apply to not giving judgment in the most simple
case for ten years, because it would indubitably lead to the
composition of all suits, that is, to an injured party
putting up with a wrong, or giving up some of his rights.
Now we apprehend that the object of law is to afford the
injured redress for every possible injury; and the more
compositions there are the stronger is the proof that the
law is defective, that it does not protect the wrong suf-
ferer, but tile wrong doer. Lord LYNDHURST, who,
as having been CHANCELLOR, ought to have known better,
observed in somewhat the same spirit, that "it bad been
said that it was monstrous that a poor man should be
driven into an expensive court for the recovery of a small
sum ; but, taking a❑ enlarged and philosophical view of
the subject, it was evident that one great object of the law
was, to prevent litigation, that the law should he so
certain and precise that men knew their rights, or it
was needless for thera to resort to a court of justice.
A man who conceived himself aggrieved went to his
counsel, was satisfied with the opinion given, and

did not resort to a court of justice but in rare in-
stances. Since he (Lord L ) bad Ist spoken, a fact had
been mentioned by Mr. PARK, the Professor of the Lon•
don University, which was of' great importance on this
point; he bad said, in one of his lectures, that Mr.
PRESTON had answered more than 40,000 cases during
his life, and that not more than one in thirty had been
made the subject of future litigation." One or two Lords
had minds so peculiarly constructed, as to cheer this.
The object of law, Lord LYNDHURST Says, is to prevent
litigation, therefore make it expensive. Now, we rather
imagine that the object is to encourage litigation
in its best sense. There is no litigation, where
there is no law, but in such countries men are savages.
There are other countries where there are such laws as
Lord LYNDHURST would seem to patronise, viz., which
are so partial in their operation, and oppressive in their
working, that no man thinks of appealing to them. In
Naples, f r instance, there is no litigation, because
each man carries a dagger. Now, the object of
law being, as we say, to encourage litigation, that is,
to induce men to appeal to fixed rules instead of to a
dagger, we conceive that the cheaper the appeal to these
fixed rules is made the better. So much fur Lord LYND-
HURST'S enlarged view of the advantages of dear law.
There are other passages in his speech equally distinguished
for blundering ignorance and ludicrous absurdity ; but we
have not space "thrice to slay the slain." We look im-
patiently to the result of Mr. O'CoNNELL's motion of
to-morrow.

The Polish question was brought forward last night in
the House of Commune, by Mr. C. FERGUSSON, in a
speech whose temper, address, and eloquence, won for it
the admiration of all parties. The Hon. Member dwelt
at considerable length on the atrocious barbarities of the
monster NICHOLAS, towards the Polish children, several
hundreds of whom he ordered to be forcibly torn from their
parents' arms, andhurried away in waggons to Russia. 0;
course the major portion of these unoffending infants pe-
rished by the way-side ; and a stranger to the country
might track his way from Warsaw to the Russian frontiers
by the piles of little corpses that thickly bestrewed the road.
Did Lord PALMERSTON attempt to deny this, and similar•
sta.ements ? Not he ! He knew it was impossible. "He
was not prepared," he said, to deny the accuracy of the
assertions made by his Hon. Friend, but hoped that the
picture drawn of them was rather overcharged." Mr.
STANLEY, though he equally deprecated the conduct of
Russia—for, indeed, the temper of the Hnlase was such,
that we much question whether he would have been li..
tened to, had he ventured to soil on a different tack—Mr.
STANLEY, though equally severe on the conduct of the
Russian Cabinet towards the Poles, yet expressed
himself averse to the question, because it must ne-
cessarily involve this country in a war with Russia.
We do net at all hold with this alternative. It is about
the very last we should anticipate, for the Power that was
all but trampled under foot the other day by a handful of
Poles—that could make no he id against the crippled and
disorganized forces of Turkey in less than two campaigns
—would scarcely presume for an instant to declare war
against united England, backed by equally united
France. However, the question is disposed of for
the present, so all further discussion is superflu-
ous : but it must carry consolation to the hearts of
the brave Poles—and Gon knows these noble-minded
patriots need some little consolation to sweeten their over-
flowing cup of bitterness !—to know that on the question
of the atrocious conduct of Russia there was but one
opinion throughout the House. Parties differed only on the
question of "expediency"—a convenient phrase, which
means something or nothing, just as suits the interests of
the statesmen who take shelter behind it. We cannot
approve the temper of Mr. STANLEY'S speech. It was
petulant, haughty, and contumelious. The sneer,
" chivalrous principle of humanity," as applied to the just
and natural sympathies of the English people towards the
Poles, comes with au ill—a very ill—grace from an un-
compromising adherent of that party (the Whigs, to wit)
who have been bawling and shouting for the last thirty
years in favour of this very " chivalrous principle of hu-
manity." But •the Whigs were out then ; they are in
now—which makes a vast difference. The speeches of
Sir R. PEEL and Sir R. Nous did credit to their heart
and head.

It has been stated by one of our contemporaries that
the movement of the Portuguese Constitutionalists in the
Algarve@ was part of a concerted plan with our Govern.
ment, by whis!, would be enabled to recognise the
Portuguese Regen, r. We can take upon ourselves to
declare that this atateuient is without foundation. It is
not improbable, however, that the success of the Consti-
tutionalists may hasten so desirable a step as the recogni-
tion of Donna MARIA as Queen de facto of Portugal, as
well as Queen de jure, although nothing has yet been
resolved upon by our Cabinet.

SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE-(THIS DAY.)

FROM LLOYD'S.

DEAL, JULY P.—Wind N.N.E., moderate.—Arrived from
the river and sailed the Westoe, Parr, for the Cape of Good
Hope.
PORTSMOUTH, JULY 9.—Wind N.N. E.—Arrived the Ontares,
Seeward, from London for New York ; and Czasar, Surflen, from
ditto, for Bengal. Sailed the Alexander, Waugh, for Bengal;
John Dougan, Newman, for Fernando Po; his Majesty's ship
Rosamond, has gone out of the harbour for Spithead.
FALMOUTII, JULY B.—Wind N. W. to W.N. W., fresh breezes.
—Arrived the Barracouta packet from Bermuda—sailed 27th
May, and from Halifax the 14th ult. Sailed the Confiance
steam packet from Oporto and Lisbon, with despatches; and
his Majesty's ship Royalist, for Oporto and Lisbon, with mails.
NZANCE, JULY S.—Arrived off port, the Bolivar, Murdoch,
from Van Diemen's Land—sailed Feb. 12; Pacific, Mortimer,
from Cape of Good Hope; Brazil packet, Cornelis, and
Thetis, Rubarth, from Bahia; and Henriette, Thrull, from
St. Thomas's.

LIVERPOOL, JULY B.—Arrived the Justinian, Resy, from
Bahia; Galatea, Cooper, from New York; Wilberforce, Tut_
loch, from Trieste; Emerald, Daves, from Smyrna ; and
Visitor, from Messina.

The Hope, Atkinson, from London to Quebec, was lost on
Flint Island May 22—crew and passengers saved.
The Ranger, Herbert, from London to Miramichi, was lost
in the ice the 11th of May—crew saved.
The Julia, Evans, from Sunderland to Quebec, was aban-
doned in the ice on the 17th of May, having seven feet of
water in the hold.

The Brothers, Brown, of Sunderland, was sunk on the
Swein, on the 7th inst., by the Diadem, Shield, of Sunderland.
running foul of her.

The Prince de Nederlauden, Hellbrand, from Batavia, is
off Beachy Head.

The Fortune, Olsin, from Lisbon to Borga, struck on a rock
near Borga, 16th ult., and sunk.

THE FUNDS.-(THIS DAY.)

CITY, TWELVE O'CLOCK.
It will be seen by the debate in the House of Lords last night,
that on the motion made by the Lord Chancellor, for consider.
ing the third reading of the Local Courts Bill, Lord Wham.
cliffe led the attack, and moved an amendment, that the Bill be
read that day six months; in consequence of which two divisions
took place : in the first there was a majority against Ministers of
12; and on the second division a majority against them of 5.
_ _ _

This has had some effect on the Funds. Consols, which
left off yesterday at 90 IA % for the account, opened at 89 % to
90, since which a re.action has taken place, and they may
be at present quoted 90%. It is expected t hat in the House
of Commons a strong opposition will be made to the decision
of the Lords by a large majority.
As yet we have no further information from Portugal.
In the Foreign Market little doing, and the prices much the
the same as yesterday

HALF-PAST ONE.

The general topic of conversation among the Citizens relates
to the minority of Ministers in the Lords last night, as well as
the information from Portugal, on which there are various opi.
nions.
Prince Esterhazy has arrived, as well as the Dutch Ambas-
sadors. It is now e . eted that the final settlement of the af-
fairs of Holland will nbe brought to a conclusion.
Consols are at p, ,ent 90 IA for the Account, with little
doing.
It is stated that Government have received further despatches
from Portugal this morning.
In the Foreign Market most of the Securities maintain yes-
terday's prices.

THREE 0' CL 0 C.&
Consols for the Account, 90

SIGNS OF THE TIMES.—In the year 1821
no fewer than 2,304 young persons were " confirmed"
by the Bishop in the city of Coventry. Ten years after-
wards, although the populition was considerably increased,
the number was 349! In another ten years where will
the Bishop and their senseless rite be ?—Both sent to
Coventry.—Stamford News.

DEATH OF THE REV. VISCOUNT BAR-
BERTON.—The Rev. JOHN PomEitor, A. M., Viscount
Hatherton, who bad been seriously indisposed for some
months past with a paralytic attack, died on Wednesday
last, at five o'clock, at his residence, in Merrion. His
Lordship was for many years Vicar of St. Anne's Parish,
in this city, and was nominated Governor of all the cha-
ritable institutions cndowed by the late Ettasmus SMITH,
EN., upon the death of Lord DOWNES. Viscount HA •
BERTON succeeded to the title anti estates last year, upon
the death of his brother the Hon. ARTHUR JAMES Po-
EROY. —Stuarea Dispatch.

I NI PERIALPA RLIAM
THIS DAYS WEDNESDAY, JULY 10.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
CoOmnintihteteegalolner‘v\b,ieuiinsg,s
Dopievnoredcewßeilflo;untitrtehebeHinoguseabsoiutttilli
Members present.
Mr. Harrison appeared at the Bar as Counsel for the
several witnesses were examined. The evidence has alrer
been before the public. After which the Bill was reported
out amendment.
Sir FRANCIS VINCENT presented a petition from a MO
of highly respectable attorneys, complaining of the regulationS
which students were entered, and subsequently called to the
I)
The petitioner prayed that a Committee Might be appointed
inquire into the practice in operation of calling menthes to„
bar, and that their petition might be referred to that 1,1'4
mittee. The Hon. Member said that he had given notice of.
intention to move for a Select Committee on this subject, but PI
on the day on which his motion was to have been brought
he was prevented by the House being counted out; and .
now, seeing the impossibility of having justice done to_;:i
subject in the present session, it was his intention to po..it i
his motion to the ensuing one, when he hoped it would rec.)
the attention to which it was certainly entitled.
—(Hear, nen
With regard to that part of the petition which affected the
tioners more particularly, he must say that greater bards
could not press upon any body of men. It was too much t,
because attorneys were considered to fill a lower grade in
profession, they should be obliged to give up, perhaps, a lucre,'
profession upon the mere chance of being called 'to the
Mr. PHILLPOTTS said be had been requested to support
prayer of the petition. It was most essential that there sh ,
be an inquiry, not only for the character of an individUs,
Member of that House, but for that of the House itself. I)
Colonel EVANS, in supporting the petition, observed.,t
considering the prominent line in political life which the mil
Member for Colchester had taken, it was equally as essential,:,:
the character of the benchers as the Hon. Member himself,
the documents on both sides should be laid before the House,
order to prevent the possibility of any garbled statement.
Mr. SHEI L thought it extremely anomalous that a gentlel.
who had been a Memberof that House for fourteen years, shew,
be considered by the benchers of any inns of court to be incaPs'
of holding a place at the bar.
Mr. LLOYD should support the petition.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY felt called upon to say, with refer"
to the motion of the Hon. Member for Oxford, that It was tit
brought forward at his (Mr. Harvey's) instance, as he kni
nothing of it till he came down to the House on Monday. ;'d
the Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer was in ",
place, he trusted he would allow him to draw his attention
the motion of the Hon. Member for Oxford, and the artier,
ment proposed by the Hon. Baronet. The object of the root!
of the Hon. Member for Oxford was the production of OS
ments on one side of the question only, that of the amender',
of the Hon. Baronet was for the production of the documents;
both sides. He trusted that the subject would go before
Committee unincumbered with any considerations of a persee",
nature, and would be viewed in the light of a question of gry
public importance.

An Hox. MEMBER (name unknown) hoped that a Select CO
mittee would be appointed to examine into the whole systenl
The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. HA LFORD presented a petition from the frame-v/1
knitters of Leicester, complaining of distress in their trade, ivO:
they attr;buted to the extensive manufacture of a spurious art,
called " cut hose."

Lord A LTHZRP said a Bill had been introduced to pre°
the manufacture of cut hose ten or eleven years ago, but it
thrown out in the House of Lords. He thought that if cut p:
were so inferior to hose made by frames, the public would sc
find it out.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GROTE presented a petition from certain merchautSi
the city of London interested in the Alediterrane In trade, Co:,
plaining of the excessive duty on currants imported from
lonian Islands.
Mr. EWA RT supported the petition.
Lord ALTHORP felt great difficulty as to what he shoal
do. When he took off half the duty on soap, he was told tP,
he ought to have taken off the amount from the house tart
stead, and if he were to promise to reduce the duty on mirror,:
he should probably find a competition in regard to other tan
In looking at taxation, reference ought to be had to the artierA
that could best bear it, and he thought that currants, wb
were in some respects an article of luxury, were a fair subject
taxation.

After observaqons from Mr. ROBINSON and other
Members, the petition was laid upon the table.
Mr. FERGUS O'CONNOR presented a petition from cell
merchants of Dublin, in favour of the Ship Canal. He s,,
presented a petition from a gentleman of Mackren, complain'
of delays and impediments in the way of justice, in consequeo
of the absence of Magistrates. He had petitions in favour of the'
peal of the Union, and he would, before presenting them, cb,
i
lenge the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. S. Rice) to
him shoulder to shoulder, upon the prosperity of Ireland and!,
necessity of a repeal of the Union, which had done no good, Y
much harm to that country. The Hon. Gentleman then Pr
sented his petitions, which were from New Ross, Killarney,
Dublin.

Mr. LITTLETON said, as to the observations of the 1-1,!
Gentleman with regard to the repeal of the Union, he had
a very few words to say in reply. That was a proposition
utterly devoid of common sense, that it was scarcely nee
sary for him to say, that when it was brought tbrwardi
would be met with the most strenuous exertions to
feat it. He need scarcely use such strong language,
the proposition was so extremely absurd—so opposed to the fn
ings of both Englishmen and Irishmen, that any strenuous!
ertion would be totally unnecessary, in order to ensure it a"
naland triumphant defeat.

Tr. FINN supported the petition. The Reform House.
Commons had given Ireland, on the Disturbances Supprel
Bill, a pretty sample of synapati y for Ireland. The Goys,
ments of this;country had, for the last six hundred years, UP
pled on the Irish liberties and rights.
Mr. SINCLAIR would put down a cry for the repeal of,ti
Union, as an attempt to effect a dismemberment of the env,'
Mr. SHEIL supported the prayer of the petition, and ail
from a variety of considerations the absolute necessity of s
peal of the Legislative Union.

Sir F. BURbETT denied altogether the want of syroPali
with the wrongs of Ireland, which had been charged on
Scotch and English Members.
After some further discussion, the Speaker left
Chair.