The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

MA.29, 1846.

RAILWAY COMMITFEES.

(YESTERDAY.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
,GROUP I.
LONDON AND TORE (EJLSTETIN COUNTIES.)
The Committee met this day at eleven o'clock, the Earl of Love-
lace, chairman.
Mr. Lane, a traffic-taker, was called to speak to the comparative
amount of traffic of-the Eastern Counties and the London and York
lines.

Mr. Rsorrx objected to the Eastern Counties Company examining
in detail on the traffic evidence, and the Committee having curtailed
that portion of the case for the London and York,
a4thenerionsultation the parties were called in, when the
cleared.
After
A long discussion then sprung up on this objection, after which
he
decision was given by the Chairman •
the
roomCoa wlemmittee resolved not to hear further evidence as to the traffic,
on
the
ground that the tables given in on both sides showed very
followingt
similar results in some of their component items, and that the dis-
trict traversed by both the competing lines, with their respective
branches and with the transverse railways which communicated with
them, will constitute a sufficient revenue for either project.
The case was thenproceeded with in accordance with this decision.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP H,
This Committee met to-day at the usual hour, Viscount Morpeth
in the chair.

CORNWALL.

Mr. Vignoles was examined with reference to the engineering fea-
tures of this line. His evidence went to support the statements made
by Mr. Locke on a previous occasion.
Mr. Hawkshaw also gave evidence of a similar nature.
The Committee then adjourned.

PRICE SD.

. .
' aware that Mr. Miller had constructed a similar tunnel last year
through similar strata on the North British line at 301. a yard.
-The CSAIERAN did not see what the course of examination would
end in but in a difference of opinion between the two engineers,
which the Committee would have to weigh at the close. The differ-
ence at present between the two in regard to the estimates was
230,000/. •
51r. LIDDELL said he was willing to leave the matter where it was
in the hands of the Committee, if the others would agree to the
same course.
Mr. Comm:rex could not consent to do se. They hid Mr. Erring.
ton and Mr. Locke, the engineers, to call ; or, if the Committee
thought fit, he was willing that an independent engineer should go
down at the expense of the parties to survey the line, and report the
result of the Committee.
Mr. LIDDELL was quite willing to leave the matter as it was, and
let the Committee decide between the estimates; but if the other
side were determined to go on In the course they named, they would
have to follow np their cross-examination.
After some conversa'ion the cross-examination was resumed.
The witness was then cross-examined with the object of showing
that similar bridges as those set down for the present scheme had
been constructed in that part of the country, and on the North
British line. He had set down the rails at 751bs. He was not aware
that the weight they had calculated was 631b5., and that that was
te
cNiilvceight of the rails for the North British line. The price per ton
tae lIIa tett at ill. 10s., which he believed was the estimate of Mr.
Miller on anothei line. •
ed—TNorth
he British line had been rather unfortu-
nate exnin
tteeinthaeilrbridge
bridges, as he believed the Inspector General of Railways
could testify. 751bs. was the weight of rails on the Caledonian line.
calculatedle.T
the present
works
presenteN;
theorks at the same rate as those on the
HeCa haddlehdonian line.
Caledonian were making by the
best contractors inithe world-sfesah. Ilainington, Stevenson, and
11twi`eKepirizhixee.ipaTlhpereCparlieedteoreni
uccleucBhugahnt
,anthleanDguke of branch
was opposed by the
Graham. The line went through their dcuSttiringsjamaneds embankments.
Locke, engineer,
property in
deposed that the Hawick line went through
a thinly populated ad mountainous district, and
justify it, unless it were the through traffic. With regahrld ng r tihd
Edinburgh through traffic, the Caledonian line would sufficientlye
accommodate Edinburgh, though if the North British line wer
formed that would be a direct competing line with the Caledonian.
The Caledonian, with the branch now proposed, would accommodate
Langholm sufficiently. He had gone over the estimates and sections
of the North British Extension, and he had also gone over Mr. Col-
lister's cross sections, and he perfectly agreed that the works would
cost what he had set down for them. Whether the present line was
sanctioned or not, the Caledonian would have to finish The whole of
their scheme, as the works were all contracted for. The branch to
Edinburgh from Carnwath was not only contracted for, but
in course .of , construction. He believed there was not
five miles on the whole line 'where the works were not
in operation. The difference in distance between Longholme and
Carlisle, by the two schemes, would be but two miles and a half in
favour of the North British. The gradients, •however, were much
better on the Caledonian than on the other ; the severest in the one
case being lin 75, in the other lin 150. Thus, for the purpose of
saving only two miles and a half, they would have two directly com-
peting lines. There would be no difficulty, hi his -opinion, in con-
necting the Caledonian Longholm branch with the Carobie coal-
fields. The difference from Edinburgh to Carlisle between the
Ilawick line and the Caledonian was three miles in favour of
the former, but the gradients and curves of the Caledonian
were better. Under all circumstance..., he felt that, if
both lines were Constructed it world produce a . ruinous
competition, which vhould end in a coalition. Witness also agreed
with Mr. Collister as' to the difficulty of junction at the Carlisle
Central station. To let the North British in in the way they pro-
posed would destroy all the arrangements the other companies had
made with reference to this station.

Cross-examined—The station at Carlisle was not yet formed, and
by altering the levels of the lines proposed to meet in the stations,
the junction might be effected. He believed the various lines
met on the same level at Crown-street. He could not speak
as to the amount of traffic between Carlisle and Edinburgh, and
therefore he could not say what amount the Hawick lino would take
from the Caledonian. He did not see any reason at present for a
direct line from Langholm and Carlisle, in order to save 2% miles.
He had no objection if the traffic was developed, and of such a
character as to justify a shorter line, that this 2% miles should be
saved. He thought that a little opposition was necessary,
hiy
but it ought to be directed . against lines
w chthatthe werehaadireandeyt
established, and upon proper data,
here. With respect to the cuttings and the works, he
took his information from Mr. Collister, but he had a knowledge
of the prises himself. Mr. Miller might have taken cross sections as
well as Mr. Collister, as it was not necessaey to give them in the
deposited plans. The plans and sections of Mr. Miller, as deposited,
were such as he would have deposited himself.
Mr. WOOD, civil engineer, said he want over the Hawick line,
and also over the estimates of Mr. Collister. He considered the
calculations he had made fair and reasonable.
Cross-examined—He constructed the Carlisle and Newcastle Rail-
way. He was a director of that line at the time. lie was also en-
gaged in the making of the Brandling Junction. Ho was a coal en-
gineer as well as a railway one.
Mr. Errington, civil engineer, gave evidence that he generally
concurred with the estimates of Mr. Collister. From his experience
of the works on the Lancaster and Carlisle, as well as on the Caledo-
nian, he considered that, according to the sections submitted, the
works could never be constructed at the money. He had sur-
veyed the south of Scotland, under the Government Commissioners,
and then it was considered that the traffic would not yield more than
a fair return on 2% millions. Now, for the lines constructing and
proposed, there would be required about ten millions, requiring an
annual revenue of 800,0001. In that estimate, he set down the work-
ing expenses at 7001. per mile, which was the minimum rate.
Cross -exarnin The Caledonian scheme was not intended to grasp
Edinburgh and Glasgow, but because it was considered the traffic of
these cities, was necessary to make the scheme pay. He believed
that cattle were now carried to a much greater extent than originally
expected. He had had some connexion with the Perth and Inverness

line, which went through a very difficult country. The proposal of
that line was only admissable as a continuation of the great north
mail road. Ile would individually never have proposed the line, nor
should he like to have been a shareholder. The estimate of the
Caledonian originally was. he believed, 1,900,0001., but he could not
exactly say. The works, he believed, would cost 18,000/. or 19,0001.
a mile. He could not, however, speak exactly as to the amount at
that moment.

Mr. Tight, the architect of the station at. Carlisle, examined—The
room at the station was very circumscribed, even for the four corn
panto that were arranged to occupy it, and he did not think a fifth
could be accommodated without great difficulty. The area of the
land on which the station was to be built was about 600 feet long by
400 feet broad. The station would be 250 feet by 200.

Cross-examined— The area of the station was four acres and a
quarter, but that did not include the gas •works which the Company
had bought, nor the land they had at Crown-street. The whole extent
of the ground up to the House of Recovery was 1,000 feet, but the
House of Recovery intruded in the space. He could not say whether
that pt operty was scheduled. He knew the Derby station, and that
a number of lines met there. The passengers met and departed on
the same side.
Re-examined.—The gas works were purchased for, the pur-
pose of the, goods' traffic. They could not accommodate the pas-
sengers further than proposed, except by lengthening the platform.
Mr. Swift, solicitor to the Lancaster and Carlisle Company, de-
NagAitjkme station round at Carlisle was in that Company's ex-
they cou'd not consent to another party coming in.
Cross-examined--They had powers in their Act to take land along
their line for stations to the extent of fifty acres, that was with the
consent of the proprietors. The land for the station they had ar-
ranged for. The quantity was four or five acres, but they could not
reach it without crossing Crown-street. They had not Parliamentary
powers to cross that street, but they had a Bill before Parliament to
meet that difficulty.
Re-examined—The area for the station could not be extended
without interfering with very valuable property.
This closed the case on behalf of the Caledonian Company.
The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at twelve o'clock,
when counsel will be heard in summing up the case on both sides.