The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-04 00:00:00

lation. The possession of land in Van Diemen's Land was
easily obtained, and the present system worked exceedingly
well. He apprehended that none of the's. Lordships would
stand up and gay that the euteber of convicts should be mate- i
rially diminished. If they determined on founding a new penal
colony, he would ask them how they intended to do so? It was
much easier to speak of forming a colony than the actual forma-
tion of it. They required security, and that the new penal
colony should not be in a tropical climate—that it should be
destitute of inhabitants—that its soil should be fertile, and
that it should be of considerable extent. In kis humble judg-
ment the motion of transferring our convicts to purely penal
colonies, would act most fatally to the system of transportation.
—( Hear, hear.) They bad only this alternative—would they,
if they could find a colony, establish a new penal colony, and in-
vite free settlers thither ? or, would they establish a colony which
from its commencement to its close should never be refreshed by
the presence of an unconvicted man, but should *be a den of
pollution and condemnation?—(Cheers.) They could ass
nothing so fatal as that to the convicts. He would ask, what
was the convict to do after the termination of his sentence ?
They would be deprived during the existence of their sentence
of the society of all virtuous men, and when they were set free
they wou'd be unable to leave the colony. Would their Lord-
ships form such a colony as that? Let them take Norfolk
Island, for instance, as a colony, into which none should be
admitted but convicts, it must in a few years become one
of the most awful places on the face of the empire.
The greatest possible advantages had been conferred upon the
colonists, and, in order to enable them to derive benefit from
the convicts, those convicts were compelled to go through all
the gradations of punishment under the surveillance of the po-
lice and magistrates. Under those circumstances he would
say that he conceived it would be most inexpedient in their
Lordships to comply with the prayer of this petition. Their
Lordships would find it rather a curious fact that this country
bore no comparison to the state of France in reference to con-
victs. In France only 8,000 convicts were thrown back upon
them, and yet they complained of it as an intolerable hardship.
What then would be thought of it in this country if they had
50,000 convicts thrown back upon them? The Government
of which he lately had the honour of being a member had
added a new colony to New South Wales, sufficiently far re-
moved from the tropics to be healthy, and to this colony
a considerable number of convicts were being removed.
It was provided that these persons should be removed to an-
other colony, and provided with food fer a limited period with
a small portion of land, which they had the option of culti-
vating for themselves ' • and from the preaimity of New South
Wales, they could, when their term was expired, go to that
settlement and engage themselves in service. Those persons, from
the time of their arrival in that place, might be looked on
as having obtained a conditional pardon, and whew any de-
mand for labour arose in the neighbouring settlement, they
could go to service. These were the objects which the Go-
vernment had in view for the amendment of the state of the
convicts. There was no subject which had been more
anxiously considered by himself and the Right Hon. Baronet
for the Home Department than the present question. The y
had taken every step that was passible for the purpose of re-
lieving the moral arid financial system. lie believed that the
moral system depended on the admixture of the convicts with
the free populatioa, and also the proximity of some
large and important country to which their labour
might be transferred. He regretted to say that
Van Diemen's Land had not been free from the late mania for
speculation ; undertakings had been commenced on borrowed
capital, bearing most usurious interests. When these specu-
lations failed, property was sold all over the island, and it was
to that fact, arid not to the presence or absence of convicts that
he attributed the distress and depression that bad taken place.
He did riot deny that the presence of a considerable number of
convicts would have the effect of lowering the rate of wages,
and that consequently numbers of free labourers had emigrated
from Van Diemen's Land. But there were other causes at
work also, for it might be recollected that within the last six or
twelve months, a rapid improvement had taken place
in the districts of Port Philip and South Australia.
In the latter district more particularly, minerals had
been opened up to a great extent and there-
fore, there had been an increased demand for labour ;
and the colony was so near Van Dieman's Land that labourers
could always have the opportunity of removing there, and,
therefore they were not to attribute the emigration altogether
to the introduction of convicts, but to the fact that a more re-
munerative field was formed for them. He entreated their
Lordships would consider before they made any serious change
in the law of transportation—before they altered or condemned
the existing system, and consider what other system they could
substitute for it. Let them not condemn ; let them be satisfied
to amend what was defective, but let them nut
destroy until they had found another that was more
advantageous to the colony of Van Diemen's Land,
which had been a penal settlement from the commencement.
Let them consider what it was to relieve this country from
the immense mass of corruption which would be ever present
if a large number of convicts were permitted to remain in it.
Let them consider what the chances were which were given
those convicts after the termination of their sentence in a
country so peculiarly fitted for them. He thanked their Lord-
ships for the attention they had paid to him, and he sat down,
again requesting them not to effect any changes without due
consideration.
The Duke of RICHMOND said, that having been a direc-
tor in the Pentonville Prison, be was enabled to state that th.s
convicts sent from that prison were received in the colony with
the utmost distrust ; and, in fact, it was a difficult matter
for them to obtain employment. Many of them, however,
earned for themseives a name as the most industrious inhabit •
acts of the colenT.
Lord LYTTE.LTON, in laying papers on the table, said it
might be expected from him that he would state to the
House on the present occasion what were the
intentions of the Government with respect to the
colony of Van Diemen's Land. This subject divided itself
into two parts—that which referred to the morral arid social
state of the convicts, and that which referred to the incon-
venient and financial grievances of Van Diemen's Land, as
compared with other colonies. The Noble Lord had referred
to the probationary convict gangs, and adduced several tables
which had been forwarded to this country illustrative of their
beneficial working. That many allegations in the petition
were correct, could not be denied, and he hoped their Lord-
ships would give these their most careful consideration. There
was another material point to which he would allude. Last
year a dispatch had been received from Sir E. Wilmot,
urging on the Government the importance of allowing a free
importation of corn from that colony into this country.
Perhaps he was not exactly in order in alluding to it at the
present time, still he thought it right to mention it, as a
measure that was likely, along with others that
might be devised, to prove beneficial to the colony.
He was prepared to admit that the petitioners had great
grounds of complaint in reference to the number of convicts
which were sent to their colony.---( Hear, hear.) Her Ma-
jesty's Government were most anxious to apply some remedy.
—( Hear, hear.) He was enabled to state that the petitioners
might entertain some slight hope that, at no distant day, the
present system would be greatly relaxed. There had been an
application from the inhabitants of Port Philip to permit the
admission of convicts into their colony. Her Majesty's Go-
vernment had the strongest feeling of the necessity of some
change. A considerable number of convicts had lately been
transported to Gibraltar, and the system had worked most
satisfactorily. Her Majesty's Government were most anxious
to extend that system as far as possible.—( Hear, hear.) They
felt that the subject was one of the greatest moment, and he
could only say, on the part of the Government, that it should
receive their most serious consideration.—( Hear, hear.) Tne
Noble Lord, who was imperfectly heard in the reporters'
gallery, concluded by stating that the Government would most
gladly adopt any measure which might be calculated to remedy
the grievances mentioned in the petition presented by the
Noble Marquis.
Lord GREY said he looked upon this as a subject of the
greatest importance ; but he did not think that the statement,
made by the petitioners had been satisfactorily answered by the
Noble Lord opposite. The Noble Lord had not denied any of
the charges made by the petitioners, and therefore they were
deserving of the highest and most serious consideration of the
House, and the convicts should have immediate relief. N
doubt the difficulties in the way of doing this were great, and
required much time to deliberate upon. He had long been op-
posed to this system 'of transportation, and he fully agreed in
the sentiments expressed upon it in a pamphlet written by the
Archbishop of Dublin. In the principle of transportation they
looked for two objects—the first was the punishment of the con-
vict sent out, and the other was, to relieve this country from
his presence; but the great mistake was in not separating those
objects completely. He believed that the system of penal labour
should be carried on in this country. The great difficulty le
carrying on the present system was that in case of any obstruc-
tion arising, it was 10 or 12 months before an answer could be
received from home to remedy that obstruction. There
was no reason why the penal labour should not be performed
here, and the convict afterwards sent into the colonies.
He knew that the colonies did not like receiving convicts
when their sentences had ended, but that objection might be
overcome. He was aware that this was not an opportunity
to discuss so important a subject, but he could not allow the
conversation to dose without expressing his dissent from the
opinions prevalent that the system of transportation ought to
be continued. If the system could be continued without its
faults it would be a desirable one ; but as it had been hitherto
attempted, it had failed to answer all the purposes to which it
it had been applied. And if it,could not be continued without
its faults, they had the alternative that ought to have b en
adopted long ago—viz., of discontinuing it altogether.
The Bishop of OXFORD agreed in the main with the
general principle advanced by the Noble Earl, though he could
not assent to what had been stated respecting the
moral effects of a convict population in Van Die-
men's Land. Transportation, as hitherto conducted,
had been the great curse of the world, and the reproach of this
nation. Let Noble Lords consider, that in the creation of these
colonies as penal settlements, convicts had been sent out with
bodies of soldiers to watch over them, so incapable were they of
all moral relations; and accompanied:by medical men to watch
over their health, though at the same time there was not a
single religious instructor. This penal population was set down
in this manner, destitute of all principle of moral instruction, to
form a new people. As they had sown so they must reap.
From the accounts they had received, it seemed that the popu-
lation was sunk in the deepest moral pollution; the tone of
society was lowered, chastity among women was unknown, and
crimes of the most horrid character, such as it was hoped were
banished out of anything like civilised society, abounded.
Such were the results of this system of transportation.
He for one heartily thanked the Noble Lord lately at the head
of the Colonies for his speech of that evening; he thanked him
for the enunciation of the great principle that Government had
seen the necessity of giving moral and religious instruction to
the convicts they sent out. He rejoiced in the way the House
had received that enunciation, and be rejoiced and agreed with
many of them. But he must say this, that there were a few
points in which he could net agree with the plans which the
Noble Lord had announced, and justified, as those which the
Government had adopted when he was at the head of the
Colonial-office. He could not agree with the principle which
the Noble Lord had laid down, that the presence of vice had a
tendency to raise the standard of virtue among the free popu-
lation. 'f his he considered the most monstrous paradox that
ever was propounded to Christian men. Let them con-
sider that in the colonies vice was not exhibited in chains.
It was not punished with fetters. No. Vice there in many
instances set the tone of society so far, that a man hie'. in
his profession told them that he did not • oure
to say that he had not come out as a convict, because it would
seem as if he hod not a fellow feeling with those around him.
He (the Bishop of Oxford) would have thought that the best
way to promote virtue would have been to have kept vice out
of sight. They would not, for instance, in the desire to pro-
mote virtue, take their families into the precincts of linen-
tieusness ; they would rather conceal the knowledge that such
vice existed, lest the very fact that the world contained it i
should contaminate their morals. The Noble Lord told them
partswire too receive land
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ns t also hat his proposal for relieviag Van Diemen's Land was this—
to found a new settlement, not strictly penal, in the northern
lfsotheoypewnetroe objection.
unable
ro
T 1 convicts were to found a new colony for themselves ; they
purchase it. Now it appeared to him that this would
necessarily place these convicts upon a better I
footing than the man of virtuous character in the '
colony from which they had been removed. We
should treat convicts just as we treated a patient. We
should not appoint a physician to a sickly man who lived at a
distance of three or four hundred miles, fer there would be
the journies backwards and forwards, which would of course
increase the expense and the difficulties.—(Hear, hear.) And
therefore he would maintain that convicts should be punished
in this country. What did they seek by the punishment of a
felon ? Of course, an opportunity of recovering their good
character. But their Lordships said that he could not do that •