The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

from which some goo-1 to the people might have resulted.
The real advance, however, instead of a million and it
half, had only been, according:to the last return, 2e0,000/..
and tnis was to improve 19 millions of acres of land!
The great object was to improve the agriculture of Ire-
land, and increase the production; and in doing this,
they ought not to lose sight of the fact that it had been
necessary to supply an extensive destruction of the
staple food of six millions of people. But the Legisla-
ture had passed the poor-law. He for one did not com-
plain of that law, In some electoral divisions, it was
true, the poor-rate was 35., 55., or 7s. in the pound; and
in one division in the west of Ireland it amounted to ac-
tually more than the landlords received. He did not suffer
from any such burden; in two of the divisions on his estates
the rate was only 2d., and in none was it higher than 2s.
If the poor-rate was no higher throughout Ireland than in
the county of Wicklow, no landlord would have reason
to complain. He bad stated these facts to show that he
could not be actuated by any personal feeling in the
matter. But when the rate amounted to 35., 55., and 7s.
in the pound, the matter was one demanding serious
consideration. He asked their Lordships—and he
knew what must be the answer—whether they desired
the continuance of a state of things which must render
property valueless, and at the same time destroy a most
useful class of society in Ireland, on whom the burden
of these rates fell? He was confident that unless the
House reconsidered that measure, in its incidence upon
property, and in the divisions which had been made for
the purpose of rating, the result he had indicated must
ensue, especially in the county of Donegal and others in
the west of Ireland. It would necessarily involve the
ruin of a large class of proprietors; it would ruin a Noble
Friend near him (here the Noble Lord pointed to some
one on the Ministerial bench); and, after such extensive
ruin, he would ask what could stand between the Go-
vernment of that country and the wild democracy ?
(Hear.) By whom would the mob then be wielded ?
(Hear.) He implored the aid of their Lordships to
avert this evil, and to lose no time in doing one thing
which was most essential to the tranquillity of Ireland,
and to its physical well-being. They had made the
property of Ireland liable to support the poverty of Ire-
land, but let them take care that that property retained
its attitude as prOperty, and let them cause it to support
one thing more. He must ask them to impose one more
burden upon it, to be taken from the shoulders of the
people. For the sake of peace and tranquillity, the se-
curity of the Protestant Church, and the safety of the
empire, he asked their Lordships to establish the
Roman
Catholic religion in that country. This was most essen-
tial, and he would tell his Right Rev. Friends behind him
that if they would not have Roman Catholic prelates sit-
ting here, this must be done. The Roman Catholic
priests ought to be paid as stipendiary clergymen; no
difference must be made between them and the Pro-
to use a common phrase, they must
platter.—(Laughter.) He would
tfeesetdanhtutcloefrgythmeensa;
now return to the question—what had been done for
Ireland this session? Last session the Encumbered Es-
tates Bill had been sacrificed to English interests.—(No,
no.) He maintained that this was the case, but were the
measure passed, and found to work very smoothly and
successfully, its operation would be extremely slow, and
it would be a long time before any beneficial change
would be produced thereby. If it were meant to
allow English interests to purchase large estates in
Ireland, he anticipated no great benefit from the
change. Every one knew what happened when
an estate changed
hands; even in this country, he
knew an instance in the north of England where a
large estate had been sold, and the first • rst considera-
tion of the new proprietor was, how much additional
rent he could raise out of the property. He would much
rather see the existing Irish proprietors go odes well as
they coded than see them replaced by others. IF it
were said, "We have passed the poor-law, what else
can we do?" he would answer, let the poor-law be made
to fulfil the object for which it was passed—to maintain
the destitute, and gradually to diminish pauperism. Had
it done so hitherto? On this head he was prepared with
a variety of document,. In the union of Belinrobe,
where the population was 85,000, on the 7th of February
last 25,000 were receiving rations, the following week
they were upwards of 26,000, and the relief cost 7001. a
week, or about 35,0001. a year—being something like
per head on the whole population. That was not the
whole expense of the poor-rate, as it was only or out-dor
relief. A few weeks after, on the 25th of March, the
guardians reported as destitute no fewer a number claim •
ing out-door relief than 30,413. Now it was impossible
to allow such a state of things as that to continue—or
for her Majesty's Government to rest satisfied with their
past policy as sufficient to remedy it. The only remedial
measure yet received from the House of Commons, after
a sitting of seven months, was the Evicted Tenants Bill,
which their Lordships considered on the previous even-
ing. He quite agreed with his Noble Friend opposite,
who said last session that much might be done for Ire-
land by the employment of the people in the construc-
tion of railways. But in saying that, he did not confine
himself to railways. He was for giving employment to
the people in all other national objects and works which
it could come within the province of a Government to
undertake. It was no fair reason to say that they
should be left to private enterprise in Ireland, because
they were so in England, seeing that England was
the only country in Europe where such was the
case. It might be said that when those works would
be completed the people would be in the same position
as now, and that it would then become necessary to
construct other works. His reply to that objection was,
that every new work would be the prolific source of
others. It was not the mere construction of a railway
from Dublin to Galway that he looked to so much as
the building of stores and the making of roilik, and
those other works consequent upon the first, ILhich
would yield employment and excite to industry.
He would also recommend a large scheme of
emigration as a remedy for the present deplorable
condition of Ireland. But, whether the Government
concurred or not in his suggestions, he must again
press upon them the necessity of doing something to
ameliorate the condition of that country, unless they
were prepared to see in it disorganization of society.
They must not, however, attempt to govern it without
the aid of the gentry. It would not be for the good
either of the middle or lower classes to destroy the
gentry of Ireland ; for if they did so the gentry of Eng-
land would soon follow. The Government seemed to
think that the poor-law had provided for the comfort of
the lower classes; but it had done no such thing. The
people of Ireland had suffered more silica the passing of
that Act than before, owing, in his opinion, to its effect
on the feelings of the people. Previous to its introduc-
tion every men was accustomed to assist his neighbour.
Indeed, the peasantry in Ireland entertained sentiments
upon that subject of which the English people had no
conception. It was prophesied at the time that its ine-
vitable consequence would be to destroy those feelings,
and that prophecy had been fulfilled; fur now, instead of
an anxiety to assist each other, the answer was, where
charity was demanded, " go to the relieving officer." It
was deeply implanted in the English mind that every-
thing English must be good, even for other countries.
But, however gratified the English people may be in
forming that opinion as regarded themselves, most
certainly they had passed a poor-law for Ireland
which was utterly at variance with both the feelings
and condition of that country, and had proved wholly
ineffectual for attaining the objects with which it was
enacted ; the British Parliament having been obliged to
vote large SUMS of money from the public purse to keep
the Irish people from starvation. It was because he saw
no hope for Ireland in the measures now before Parlia-
ment, or in anything that had been promised by Govern-
ment, that he had ventured to bring this subject forward,
and to ask the Noble Marquis whether Government had
any measures for the permanent improvement of Ireland
in contemplation? The Noble Lord concluded by mov-
ing the following resolutions :—" That is incumbent
upon this House to express the approbation with which
it has viewed the wisdom, energy, and prudence, with
which the Executive Government of Ireland has been
conducted during the recent period of difficulty. That
it is equally the duty of this House to express the deep
sorrow with which it continues to view the prolonged
distresses of many classes of the Irish people, and the
regret which it feels that the measures passed in the
concluding session of the late Parliament for the im-
provement of Ireland have not hitherto been productive
of the benefits which were anticipated from their enact-
a3ant. To express the decided opinion of this House,
tohatt further legislative measures are required for remedy
he evils under which Ireland labours, for the develop-
tu,ent of its natural resources,and for the •
improvement
OK its of
1
u tare and commerce."
The Itarquis of LANSDOWNE felt it his duty to
oppose the motion, though in "
to the difficulty of,h,. doing so he was fully alive
the ground of inc„,;:iPosition, in having to object (on
favour of his Noble Ririteenprecedent) to a testimony in
the Lord-Lieutenant of Ire-
land, which the conduct of that Noble Friend, during
very trying and difficult times, entitled him to.—(liear.)
His Noble Friend (Earl Eitzwilli
a
late measures passed for the imn:) complained that the
had not been productive of the 11;:euisevnemtsent of Ireland
ex pected. Ihe
first of those measures to which he would allude was
that by which, to a certain extent, order and peace had
been established. It would not be denied that the greatest
depended on the indi • •
hope for Ireland victual industry
and the enterprise of her people ; and enterprise and in-
dustry were always more successful when proeeedin.
from spontaneous feelings of the people, than when ease'
tered and maintained by artificial means, and by the in-
terference of the Legislature. It would be obvious then
that the best course for the Government or for Parlia-
ment to take was to place the poor and industrious peo-
ple of Ireland iu that position of security and safety in
which the fruits of their industry might be assured to
them, and to secure this proprietor in the possession of
his property. In this respect he was bound to contend
that the measure of which he had spoken as administerd
by his Noble Friend the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland had
been most decidedly successful. He could refer to offi-
cial statements showing the improved condition of Ire-
land in the great diminution of crime ,',since that mea-
sure had come into operation; and not merely of Ire-
land generally but of those districts in particular in
which crime had previously prevailed to the greatest ex--
tent, as in the counties of Clare, Limerick, Galway,
and Tipperary, but where now: comparative security
reigned. This improvement was evidenced not only in
the decrease of prosecutions, but in the altered habits
of the people, and the better cultivation of the
land.—(Hear, hear.) The number of outrages for
the whole of Ireland had diminished from 2,16'2 in
December last year to 1,182 in the last month of the
present year—a diminution of about one-half; and in
the higher class of outrages he was happy to say the
falling off was in a still greater proportion.—(Hear,
hear) So far, then, as giving security to industry
and property, and the results of such security, the
measures of the Government had not been wholly
unproductive of good. Again, when his Noble Friend
said that nothing had been done to improve the con-
dition of Ireland, he forgot the advantage which had
already resulted from the exertions of those persons
who had been employed in going round the country
lecturing on the science of agriculture. The teaching

ROUSE OF LORDS, June 23.

, Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions
against the Scotch Registration Bill, which were or-
dered to be referred to the Select Committee on those
Bills.

The Bishop of NORWICH presented several petitions
to favour of the Health of Towns Bill.
_ _

ale Bishop of LONlioli-P;;;;d some petitions
with a similar prayer.
Lord BROUGHAM complained of the exemption of
London from the provisions of the Bill.
Lord CAMPBELL defended the Government 'mea-
sure.

LAW REFORM.

The NOBLR LORD then moved the second reading of
the Administration of Justice Bill.—Agreed to.
The Bill was then read a second time.
CASE OF VISCOUNT ARBUTHNOT.
The LORD CHANCELLOR informed the House
that two bills had been found against Viscount Ar-
buthnot, a Scotch Peer, for forgery, and had been re-
turned to the House; and, in conformity with precedent,
he moved for the appointment of a Committee to whom
the papers should be referred, and also that the Black
Rod be directed to take Viscount Arbuthnot into cus-
tod v.—Agreed to.
The NOBLE AND LEARNED LORD then moved that the
Committee should consist of all the Peers who had at-
tended Parliament this session, of whom five should be
a quorum ; and he also moved that the Lord Chief
Justice of the Common Pleas should be ordered to attend
the Committee.—Agreed to.
JOINT STOCK COMPANIES BIIL.
Earl GRANVILLE moved the second reading of the
Joint Stock Companies Bill. If their Lordships would
consent to the second reading he should not propose that
the Bill should be committed before Monday, July 3.
The Bill was read a second time.
EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord REDESDALE brought up the report on this Bill.
The Noble Lord said, in order to prevent the irregularity
which took place last night, he should on Monday move
standing orders to the effect that when a Bill was com-
mitted or re-committed in the absence of the Noble Lord
the Chairman of Committees, that the House should re-
sume. The Noble Lord concluded by moving that the
amendment, as made last night, he adopted.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said, that on the
third reading he should move that the amendments
adopted last night be rejected.
Lord MONTEAGLE defended the amendments, as
calculated to afford greater relief.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said that the third
reading of the Bill should not take place on Monday if
the Noble Marquis (Clanricarde) wished to have a full
attendance of Peers.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought, as the
amendments which had been introduced would be likely
to lead to serious consequences, that an opportunity
should be given fist.a re-eoasidei ation of the amendments
adopted last night, but as the measure had long been
before their Lordships, he did not consider that it would
be necessary to postpone the third reading of the
Bill beyond Monday.
The report was then received, and the Bill ordered to
be read a third time on Monday.
THE POLES AT POSEN.
Lord KINNAIRD, pursuant to notice, rose to put the
following question, namely, ''Whether a copy of the con-
ventien, signed by the Prussian Royal Commissary, Gen.
Willisen, at Jarostaweie, with the Poles, on the 11th of
April,and proclamations by the same general subsequent to
that period, had been communicated to the Government
by her Majesty's Minister at Berlin; and if so, whether
the Government would object to lay such papers on the
table?" His object was to have the best means of con-
tradicting statements imputing acts of great cruelty to
those utrfertunate people, the Poles, who had been seri-
ously injured in the estimation of their friends by the
cixeulation of such reports, first through the medium of
the English, and afterwards by the German, press. The
snocesstul insurrection at Berlin naturally excited sym-
pathetic feelings in the Duchy of Posen, and a portion of
the population sent a deputation to Berlin, claiming simi-
lar privileges, but they did not wish to throve off the Prus-
sian yoke. When they arrived they found that the Polish
state prisoners had been released, and they were perfectly
satisfied. The King granted the claims urged by the de-
putation, but the German authorities intrigued in Berlin
to prevent the proposed freedom. The Prussian soldiers
expelled from Berlin went to Posen, and committed
many atrocities on the Poles. General Willisen was
then sent by the King to Posen, and found the Prussian
soldiers about to attack the Poles, martial law having
been declared. The King, however, apprehended an
attack from Russia on Posen, and looked to the Germans
and Poles combined there as his main defence. A con-
vention was signed, under which the Poles laid down
their arms; nevertheless as a body of them were passing
through a village they were fired upon by the Germans.
It had been said that the Poles had committed the
greatest atrocities on the Jews; but the fact was that
only five Jews in all had been executed, and they had
been found with arms in their hands attacking the
Germans. The greatest cruelties had been committed
on the Poles; in fact they had called down the strongest
animadversions of the Prussian authorities. All the
details would be found in the papers for which he was
about to move; and it was necessary to have this matter
cleared up, because a ;rest deal of the truth, with
reference to the Poles, had been suppressed by the Ger-
man papers. A lady, a proprietor of large estates in
Posen, had written to the German papers, contradicting
the statements with reference to the alleged misconduct
of the Poles, in consequence of which she had been sub-
jected by the Germans in Posen to the utmost indig-
nity and persecution. General Willisen and the Arch-
bishop of Posen had also given their testimony in favour
of the conduct of the Poles ; and there was no doubt
about their being grossly misrepresented. The Noble
Lord concluded by putting the question of which he had
given notice.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE sympathised with
the motion of the Noble Lord, yet he deprecated inter-
ference in matters of foreign policy with which this
country had nothing to do. He thought he was there-
fore jastiCed, in consequence of the extreme inconve-
nience which might result from its being supposed that
the Parliament of this country had taken cognizance of
such proceedings, in refusing to accede to the motion of
the Noble Lord.
The Eirl of FIARROWBY was very glad that the
motion had been made, because it gave him an oppor-
tunity of stating his cordial concurrence in the senti-
meets of the Noble Lord who had brought the subject
before their Lordships.
Lord BEAUMONT said the man was profoundly
ignorant of what was passing in Europe who did not
perceive the possibility of the events now taking place in
Poland leading to a general Euronean war. This coun-
try had already done much harm by refraining to express
its opinion on such events. Had it done so before the
lawless invasion of Denmark, that dangerous aggres-
sion would not now have had to be terminated by
protracted negotiations. As the matter stood, it might
even disturb our aelations with the Baltic. The matter
before the House touched the interests of England as
much as any alteration of the balance of power could
do. Many communications from Posen, from Germans as
well as Poles, had led him to retract the opinion he had
at first formed that the inhabitants of Posen had fallen
into errors and perhaps crimes ; he was now convinced
that they could not justly be stigmatised as they had
been by himself on a former occasion; and ho rejoiced
in this opportunity of stating that the painful impression
he had at first entertained was removed. Still he
thought the Posen Committee of Safety had fallen into
error in attempting to remove all the Government
employee, inasmuch as the German population had a
right to have their sentiments consulted as well as the
pole& The Archbishop of Posen had been blameable in
making this a sectarian movement.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH, on the point of
order, suggested that long speeches ought not to be made
on a mere question, which was only permitted for the sake
of avoiding the necessity of a motion. Nothing was
more inconvenient than to touch incidentally and irre-
gularly on the convulsions now agitating Europe from
one end to the other, and on the eff,:ct they were likely
to have on our relations with those states. The reason
was that the opinion of the House was apt to be misre-
presented; for, if a motion were submitted, Noble
Lords
who were acquainted with the subject would then come
fully prepared to discuss it.
Lord BEAUMONT proceeded to speak in explana
tion, whereupon
Earl FITZ WILLIAM rose to order, and the discus
sion terminated.

STATE OF IRELAND.
The NOBLB EARL then rose to bring forward the
resolutions of which he had given notice, on the state of
Ireland. It was now seven months since Parliament
assembled, and what had been done? Was the condition
of Ireland such as to satisfy the Hous? At the meeting
of Parliament, Government invited them, the whole of
Ireland called on them, to legislate for the suppression
of the crimes there prevailing. Without the least doubt
or delay Parliament assented to the measures proposed,
and were prepared even to strengthen the hands of Go-
vernment with still more powerful measures. But the
Government exercised a wise discretion, and the result
had proved that they had made no immoderate de-
mand on Parliament. The law thus passed had been
administered with the greatest discretion, and the
most untiring zeal and energy ; and to the Executive
of Ireland, next to the Government, was the country
indebted for the success of that measure. It would
ill become either House of Parliament to separate
without expressing this opinion so generally enter-
tall'ed. The Government had performed a gr"at and
difficult task with signal success; and the Irish Execu-
tive had had the rare felicity of enlisting in its aid the
almost unanimous feeling of the people. Formerly that
feeling had been against the law; but on the late occa-
sien there had been no difficulty in inducing witnesses
to (tome forward, and -other parties to take the necessare
atop; for securin,g the ex_cution of the law. But, he
weeld esls, what further hail been done? • Did the House
suppose the condition of Ireland was such as to require
BO further legislation? They had passed laws ler the
prevetstiop of crime; but what had they done to benefit
the condition of the people, and strengthen their attach-
ment to the cause of peace and order? In framing such
measures it was necessary to have a duo regard to all
classes and conditions of the Irish people. On a subject
like this he could not refrain referring to the course of
legislation in past years. In the last session five
important measures had been promised, a new peas_
law;-cne for making a loan of a million and a
half .to landed proprietors, one for improving
waste .614 and others for facilitating the sale
- of encumbered estates ; of these, only the two
first had been passed into law. The sum of a million
sand half was no great amount for the purpose in view;
Ind how had it operated ? Already, of the million
luictihalf, the Commissioners had sanctioned the advance
of
upwards of 1,400,001.; but this did little unless the
mousy was actually advanced, and paid away as wages, .

of those persons had been most successful, and in many
instances, even in the short space of time that had
elapsed since the commencement of their labours, a
marked improvement in the cultivation of the land had
taken place. Such were the improvements to which he
looked forward for permanent benefit to the country—
the more so, as they rested on individual exertion, and
were not forced by Parliamentary interference. His
Noble Friend had spoken of the small sum issued under
the Land Improvement Act. Why, the amount of ad-
vances which had been sanctioned under that Act (deduct-
ing the application which had been withdrawn)was no less
than 1,388,000/. There was every inclination to make
the advances as fast as possible, and from what had
been already done under that Act the best results in the
leamnpoym
dlhadefonfloowf
etdh.e pHeoepiloeokrten the
dd
forwaimrdprtoovgermeaetnt of the
benefits
resulting to Ireland from the Bill for facilitating the
sale of encumbered estates, which he had every hope
would pass the other House before the close of the ses-
sion, as a means of introducing British capital in the
improvement of estates which were now, for want of
capital, uncultivated. With regard to the poor-law—
though he had never looked upon it as a panacea for all
the evils of Ireland, nor had it ever been put forward as
such by those who proposed it—he must say, after the
experience they had had of its working, notwithstanding
the abuses and inequality which had attended its opera-
tion, that he knew of no other means by which the great
object could have been accomplished, of saving to a great
extent (though unhappily not entirely) a large portion:of
the population from positive destruction.—(Hear, hear.)
He admitted the great benefit that had resulted from the
efforts of the BritishAseociation and the Relief Commit-
tees, but these had only followed in the wake of the pour-
law; and but for the system which that law had estab-
lished, the exertions of those institutions would have
been to a great extent unsuccessful. The fishing stations
which had been established andiwere in course of forma-
lien also promised to be of great service in giving pro-
fitable and permanent employment to the people. Look-
ing then at all that had been dune, he contended that
there was every disposition, not only on the part of the
Government but of both Houses of Parliament, to con-
sider the wants of Ireland, and do all that was possible
for the relief of that country. With regard to further
advances from the consolidated fund for relief works, to
advances for emigration, or in aid of railways, it was
the tendency of every people, and of the Irish perhaps
more especially, to neglect to do that for themselves
which they thought Government would do for them.
He was therefore disposed, as a general rule, rather to
leave such matters to individual exertion than to make
them depend on Government interference. As to the
Irish Church, he admitted f u!ly the importance of that
subject, and his opinion upon it remained unchanged;
but he was not prepared, on the part of the Government,
to say that any measure was in contemplation. The
Noble Marquis concluded by moving the previous ques-
tion.

The Earl of G LENGALL was surprised that during
nearly four hours' discussion on the state of Ireland, not
one syllable had been said with regard to the main point
—which was the system of agitation now going on in
that country. It was absurd to suppose that the country
could improve or prosper while a system Of agitation was
allowed to exist which was far beyond any agitation
which had taken place during O'Connell's time. Agi-
tation had gone on so long in Ireland that the people
began to consider it a legal proceeding, and expected
some great event to arise out of it. There was no class
of the community which was not deeply affected by the
system, with which neither landlord nor farmer dared to
interfere, under pain of falling under the force of
that sanguinary code which had met with such general
adoption. It was necessary that the mast decided
steps should be taken to put an end to the agita-
tion, for which purpose he recommended the mea-
sures pursued by Lord Grey, who had contrived to
put it down for two years. Tho system of intimi-
dation operated Most prejudicially upon the trader, who,
in many cases, if he did not supply funds to support
agitation, had his shop tabooed, and the same causes
rendered it a matter of extreme difficulty to obtain evi-
dence, or to induce a proper system of registration. The
present agitation also had its effect upon capital, many
persons in Ireland having sums varying from 2,0001. to
5,0001, and being unable to employ them. He consi.
dered that an extension of the railway system would be
a measure calculated to benefit the country, and urged
the Government to take it into their consideration. He
hoped while we were at peace with ail the world that
something would be done to stop the agitation, in order
that Ireland, instead of being a dead weight, might be a
tower of strength for this country.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then read the resolu-
tions, and put the previous question, which was agreed
to without a division.

Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter• past Ten.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 23.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four
o'clock.

ABERAVON MARKET BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
CALEDONIAN RAILWAY (BRANCH ACROSS
THE CLYDE, AND GLASGOW STATION).
On the motion that this Bill be read a third time,
Mr. WARD said he could not allow the third read-
ing to pass without taking notice of the most unjustifi
able attacks which had been made upon the Board of
Admiralty on a former occasion, by the Ho-
nourable Member for Montrose. Never had a case,
he said, been more impartially and labouriously
considered by his Noble Friend (Lord Auckland) and
the other members of the Board, and he only regretted
that the Hon. Member had not given notice that it was
his intention to make the observations to which he al-
luded, in order that he might have had an opportunity
of replying. The facts of the case were simply these—
three years ago a proposition was made to cross the
Clyde with a bridge of seven arches, which was
opposed by the trustees of the river, the bridge
trustees, and indeed by all parties in Glasgow, and it
had, therefore, received the decided opposition of the
Admiralty. During the present year, however, every
one of the circumstances had been changed. The com-
pany now proposed to carry the railway across the river.
in a tunnel, resting upon a single pier in the middle of
the stream. or in such other manner as the Board
of Admiralty might direct. The only question now
left in doubt was whether there should be one arch or
two arches, but he begged to say that the company
could not proceed with the works without the consent
of the board. The company had consented to contri-
bute a fund of 12,000/. fer the privilege thus granted to
them, which sum was to be paid over to the Paymaster
01. the Navy, and to be applied by the trustees for
deepening and improving that part of the river. Those
were the facts of the case, and he did not think a more
simple or straightforward explanation could be given.
' The Bill was then read a third time and passed.,
STANDING ORDERS.
On the motion of Mr. HEATHCOTE, a Select Com-
mittee was appointed for the revision of the standing
orders, consisting of the following Hon. Members:—Sir
William Heathcote, Mr. Ord, Mr. Bernal, Mr. Greene,
Sir Robert Ferguson, Mr. Wilson Patten, Sir John
Yarde Buller, Mr. Aglionby, Mr. Elliott, Captain Jones,
Mr. Wrightson, Mr. Home Drummond, Mr. Loch, Mr.
Sotheron, and Mr. Evelyn Denison.
THIRD READINGS.
The following Bills were read a third time and
passed:—
Edinburgh and Bathgate Railway (Extension and Devi-
ation).
Truro Turnpike-roads.
Whitehaven and Furness Junction Railway (Extension
or Deviation Line from Silecroft to Foxfield, &c).
HAMLYN'S ESTATE BILL.
The report upon this Bill was considered and agreed to.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Bilston,
praying for an extension of the suffrage, vote by ballot,
triennial Parliaments, and equal electoral districts.
Mr. LUSHINGTOI'4' presented a similar petition.
Dr. BO WRING presented fifty petitions from Man-
chester, forty from Bolton, and a number of petitions
front the metropolis, from Glasgow, Stockport, and other
places, to the same effect.
Mr. KEOGH presented a petition also in favour of
Parliamentary reform.

Captain PECHELL presented several petitions from
Brighton containing a similar prayer, and also ten peti-
tions from the same place, praying the House to consider
the propriety of a measure embodying the principles
contained in the document called the People's Charter.
Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition from Glou-
cester complaining of intimidation and of general treating
at the last election, and praying the House to give the
electors the protection of the ballot; also a petition from
Bristol in favour of Parliamentary reform.
Sir W. MOLESWORTII presented similar petitions
from London and Bristol.

Colonel THOMPSON presented fifty petitions from
Manchester and its neighbourhood in favour of Parlia-
mentary reform.

Sir G. STRICKLAND presented petitions to the
same effect from Preston, and in favour of a reduction
of the puolic expenditure.

Sir 13. HALL presented two similar petitions from
Marylebone. also one from the guardians of the poor,
praying the House to facilitate the emigration of able-
bodied paupers.
Mr. GRENFELL presented thirty petitions from
Preston in favour of Parliamentary reform.
Mr. G. BERKELEY presented petitions from Bristol
r the eldest
el otherdest
judges
places s
stohotuhled same effect.
• WARD presented a petition from Sheffield for
athe ballot,arter
tthreieynhnaiadl
pPasasrehlidaavmtehertnts, and vote by ballot ;
_I
Bills after
so
tisk
which petition
no
nominally
iraoaml
yan
devolved
mucli,aforrliaomneenpterson, and that they shouldri:omhiwnaevnvnee:s'stwiengaa:stttshitnoi3::)
th
; also a petition, complaining of the
in(Milmr.PlUolitEhe pßraenskenoted fElg petitionsalf. from diff-Tent
parts of the country in favour of the reforms which he
proposedhail
,uA rap
the
presented Mr. a petition from Newark,
against the sale of intoxicating
liquors_ on Sand Lys,
Mr. MILES presented a petition from Bristol against
the navigati,n-laws.
Mr. FORBES presented a petition from a place in
Scotland, against the Lunatic Asylums Bill. -
Mr. BERNAL presented a petition from Rochester in
favour of household suffrage, vote by ballot, and the di-
vision of the kingdom into electoral districts.
Mr. NEWDEGATE presented a petition from 200
persons connected with the Lyceum Theatre, praying that
' the number of theatres in which foreigners should be
allowed to perform should be limited to two.
Mr. HERMES presented a petition from the General
Committee of Shipowners against the repeal of the navi-
gation-laws.
Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from Hereford,
signed by 2,945 persons, in favour of reform.
Sir GEORGE GREY presented a petition against the
sale of intoxicating liquors on Sundays.
SUGAR DUTIES.

Mr. BRIGHT gate notice that in the event of the

amendment of the Zion. Member for Droitwich being re-
jected by the Efolie, he should take the first opportunity
of moving that it was not expedient at present to make
any alteration in the Sugar Duties Act of 1846.
POLICE MAGISTRATES.
In answer to a qa,aion from Alt. FORSTER,
S:r GEORGE tiREY stated that the police magis-
trates in sending some of the Chartist rioters to trial did
so upon their own responsibility and not through any
instruction that was forwarded from the Home-office.
In his opinion they /displayed a sound discretion in
sending them to trial.
MISAPPROPRIATION OF PUBLIC MONEY IN
IRELAND.

On the motion that the House, at its rising, do ad-
journ till Monday,
Sir B. HALL rose, pursuant to notice, to call the
attention of the House to an instance of a misappro-
priation of public money under the Land Improvement
Ireland Bill. Those who were Members in the last Par-
liament would remember that in addition to the large
sums of money advanced for relieving Ireland an Act
was passed authorising a loan of 1,500,0001. to the
landed proprietors in Ireland. Under this Act 5001. was
advanced last autumn to Mr. O'Neil, a landed proprietor
in the county of Galway, upon the understanding that it
was to be expended in the improvement of his property,
so as to afford employment in the ensuing winter to
the poor of the neighbourhood, but instead of doing that
he applied the money to liquidating a bill which had
become overdue at his bankers. Upon the Commis-
sioners threatening to take proceedings against him,
Mr. O'Neil, with a degree of extraordinary modest
assurance, asked for a second loan in order that
he might give his starving tenantry employment.
That was the case so far as it regarded Mr. O'Neil.
He wished to know, therefore, whether any legal pro-
ceedings had bean instituted against Mr. O'Neil to
recover the money which had been advanced to him to
carry on the works in pursuance of the Act? lie wished
also to call the attention of the House to the case of
Lord De Freyne, to whom 70,000/. had been advanced
by the Government for the purpose of carrying on
certain public works on his estates in the
county of Roscommon. There was a clause in the
Act called the Duke of Wellington's clause, which pro-
vided that all money advanced under it should be paid
by-the borrower in wages, and in the current coin of the
realm, but Lord De Freyne, instead of acting up to the
spirit or intention of the Act, had only paid ten per
cent. to the labourers he employed, which he did in
f meal,
and the remaining ninety per cent.
s upon his agent, who, however, did not
hsuepppaliidesiti cheque
o
cash them, but placed the amount to the liquidation of
the arrears they owed for rent. When the fact was
communicated to the Board of Works, they came to
a resolution net to advance any more money,
upon which an intimation was sent by the brother of the
Noble Lord (Mr. Fitzstephen French, the Member
for Roscommon), that if the Government interfered
between the employer and the employed, his brother
would dismiss the whole of the labourers, and abandon
the unexpended part of the loan. Lord De Freyne
had carried out that intention, and the la-
bourers ' were now in a most wretched state in
consequence of not being paid the wages which they
expected they would have received under the Act.
He thought he had stated enough to show that the
clauses of the Bill had not been carried out, and that in-
stead of the money advanced out of the Imperial Trea-
sury having been paid in the coin of the realm, as pro-
Tided by the Act, that it had been paid in this way-10
per cent. in meal, and 90 per cent. in cheques on the
agent of the Noble Lord, who placed the amount to the
credit of the tenants who were considerably in arrear with
their rents. Thus Lord De Freyne was enabled to get
his land improved and his arrears of rent paid up. He
wished to know ir, after what had taken place, the Go-
vernment intended to continue the advances to that
Noble Lord.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who
was very indistinctly heard, was understood to say,
with respect to the case of Mr. O'Neil. that the
Houourable Baronet had fallen into a mistake. It ap-
peared that the works in question were suspended owing
to the state of the weather, but that they would be
immediately proceeded with. The Government did
not interfere with the works undertriken by landlords
on their own property, except to ascertain that the
money voted was expended for the avowed purpose for
which it was asked; but, as the Hon. Gentleman ha
not given him notice of his question, and as it required
reference to Ireland, he was unable to give as satisfac-
tory a reply as he otherwise should. Second advances
were not made unless the parties to whom they
were made could show that they had property ex-
pended the first. The Hon. Gentleman the Member
fir Roscommon (Mr. F. French), was better acquainted
with the matter than he could pretend to be, and,
perhaps he would explain that matter to the House.
Mr. F. FRENCH wished to state, on behalf of the
Noble Lord with whom he was so intimately connected,
that the departures from the Acts were committed en-
tirely without his knowledge or sanction, and that as soon
as he found what had taken place he wrote over to his
agent to strictly comply with the provisions of the Acts.
Every order of the Commissioners had been obeyed, and
every payment that had been made since the issuing of
the circular had been made in cash.
DUTY ON RUM.

In answer to a question from Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXeIHEQUER excused
himself for not answering yesterday the Hon. Gentle-
man's question in reference to the duty on rum, by stat-
ing • that he was anxious to consult his colleagues upon
the subject before giving a final answer. It was the
opinion of the Chairman of the Excise that a differential
duty of 4d. upon rum would afford ample protection to
the Irish distiller, and Government had therefore deter-
mined to persevere in their original proposition of re-
ducing the duty from 6d. to 4d.
AFFAIRS OF SPAIN.
Mr. URQUHART wished to ask the Noble Lord the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs a question in re-
ference to the affairs of Spain: It would be remem•
bered that at the time he moved for a return of
the amount of arms and ammunition supplied
Spain,
upon Spain, in reference to
the Noble Lord stated
thatby thisthis
country
yy
hadto
claims
those supplies which were unsatisfied. N,:ev, the return
which he now held in his hand represented that all the
claims were satisfied, and the question he wished to ask
the Noble Lord was, whether the return was correct in
that respect or not?
Lord PALMERSTON said he would answer the
question on Monday.
Mr. URQUHART asked if the Noble Lord could state
how it was that the return was not signed ?
Lord PALMERSTON said he would answer that
question also on Monday,
Mr. OSBORNE gave notice that on Monday he would
put a question to the Noble Lord respecting the Spanish
correspondence, and the position of this country in re-
ference to the Quadruple Treaty.
The motion sor the adjournment of the House was
then arced to.
SUSPENDED WRITS.---BOROUGH OF DERBY.
Sir J. FAKING-1 ON moved that Mr. Speaker do
issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out
a new writ for electing two burgesses to serve in this
present Parliament for the borough of Derby, in the
room of the Right Honourable Edward Strutt
and the Honourable Edward Frederick Leveson
Gow, r, whose election:has been determined to be void.
The Hon. Member stated that it was most tmfair to sus-
pend the writ fir Derby, which contained between
30,000 and 40,000 inhabitants, when writs had been
issued for Cheltenham and Horsham. where similar
practices to those complained of at Derby had been
carried on. _

Mr. HUME said t was the intention of Hon. Mem-
bers to bring the proceedings. of the House into
ridicule and contempt, such a course as that taken by
the Honourable Mover was calculated to. do 30.—
(Hear, hear.) In cases of bribery in boroughs the
House had lately taken a most inconsistent course, having
one day refused to issue a writ, and another day con-
sented to issue one. He wished the House to feel that it
was time to put an end to this corruption; and notwith-
standing the act of the House last night he hoped they
would not, upon this occasion, sanction the issuing of
the writ to anutocr corrupt borough. Why he was told
of one town where there were nut fifty of the consti-
tuency free from corruption!—(Cries of " Name.")
St. Alban's was Vie town he ineant.—(Laughter.) If
they issued this writ they would give a sanction to acts
of corruption.

Sir J. TYRRELL, as an old Member, wished to ad-
dress a word or two to the Hon. Member for Montrose.
Before the paving of the Reform Bill he remembered
that the Honourable Member for Montrose every night
drew a long bill upon futurity in the shape of prognosti-
cations as to what purity they should have throughout
the country if the Reform Bill passed inte a law.
The Honourable Member occupied much of the public
attention, and much more of the time of that House,
with that sort of statement. He had continued ever
since to give moral lectures to the House upon all sorts of
questions, and upon none so much as upon questions of
public expenditure. There was the Hon. Member for
Bolton had got a place for his son, almost a sinecure
place, of 5001. a year upon one of those useless commis-
sions which the Hon. Member made such a fuss about
on all other occasions. And there were other Hon.
Gentlemen of the Hon. Member's clique who had in like
manner got places for relatives, as the return he had
moved for would show.
Mr. ELLICE begged to protest most emphatically
against these personalities.—(Hear, hear.) As to the
commission upon which the valuable services of the
son of the Hon. Member for Bolton had been secured, it
was one instituted to conduct a scientific inquiry of a
most important character, and which could not be ade-
quately conducted by a Committee of the Thuile. There
.'as no department of the public service which more than
the Mint required the scientific investigation now about
to be applie,i to it.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. BENNET, 113 a member of the Derby Com-
mittee, begged to remind the House that the Committee
had brought bribery home in the clearest manner to
the ten cases, which, out of the 166 cases of bribery al-
leged, had alone been gone into, the parties at that stage
of the inquiry declining to prosecute further. There was,
however, such strong suspicion attaching to the re-
maining 156 cases, that the Committee had made that
report, recommending further inquiry, of which the
House was aware.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the Hon. Baronet the
Member for Essex, had charged the Government with
creating a useless commission, and with having been
guilty of what was called a job, in appointing the son of
the Hon. Member for Bolton its secretary. Now,
with reference to tho commission, as his Right Hon.
Friend had just observed, there was especial need for
close and scientific inquiry into the whole, system and
management of the Mint, and this inquiry could only be
conducted by scientific and highly intelligent persons,
applying their whole attention to the subject in a
way which could scarcely be expected from an ordinary
Montrose,Conamitte he Committee
stairs. As to the Hon. Member for
differed from that lion. Gentleman

on many points, he had acted against him in that House , The SPEAKER called the lion. Baronet to older.
cpiite as frequently as with him, but tide ho would say of Sir J. PAKINGTON-1 he Hon. Member was aware
the Hon. Gentleman, that no man ever sat in that House that the figures which he had given as the net cost pro
who had brought to the public service a purer or more duction of sugar in the three slave colonies named wa7
entire disinterestedness—(Cheers from both sides of the the result after the value of the rum and molasses, ano
House)—and this he would sae further, that had the the interest of money with seine other inevitable charge.
Hon. Member's object, on the contrary, been a sordid and had heel deducted. The lion. Member had omitted to
personal one, and had he devoted to that sinister purpose take the-c items into his estimate. There was also e
one tithe of the indefatignsde industry, the fearless deduction 10,ide by him (Sir J. Pakinsten) of Is. 5,1. to.
energy, the powerful ability, that he had devoted to the the superior value of cies ed sugars above Muscovadoe
service of the people, he could long since have secured the sugars from Cuba an.l Brazils being all clayed. The
that object, as many men, of infinitely less claim, had smile authorities hal fueliished both himself and tee,
secured it.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member, how- lion. Member for ‘Vesfbury, with the dare which the)
ever, had acted upon other and far different principles, had respectively offered to the Hou3e, the only difference
and he had his great reward in the respect and esteem of heine in the deductions which he had made. The Hon.
all parties, alike within and without that House. Baronet then referred to the West India Committee
Mr. HUDSON concurred in the expression of respect Blue-book, and cited the cost of sugar at Porto Rice,
paid to the Hon. Member for Montrose, but thought it as stated by the Consul there, in exemplifieetion of Ins
would be better if Members of the Legislature were to mode of estimating the relative cost of production. Th(
avoid any share in Government patronage. Consul stated the gross cost to be 16s. sd. per cwt.;
Mr. C. ANSTEY said that the reason why the House from this he had deducted 4s. 6d. for interest of money,
had rescinded its resolution respecting Horsham was the See., ls. for molasses, which left 10s. 11d., and frem this
conduct pursued by the Government with respect to he deducted Is. 51. as the difference between the value
Cheltenham. of clayed and Muscovadoes. The mean cost of all the
Mr. MUNTZ would suggest to the Hon. Baronet op- slave colonies sugars was, therefore, according to his
posite that had the Reform Bill been passed in the shape mode of estimating the net value, 6s. 101 d., as he had
originally proposed by Earl Grey, there might very pro- before stated. It was he, therefore, who had made the
bably have been no cry since for further Parliamentary correct statement, and that offered by the Hon. Member
reform.—(Hear, hear.) He should support the issue of was quite erroneous.
the writ, since Government seemed disposed to take no Mr. WILSON said that he was informed, and he be-
steps for prosecuting the inquiry recommended by the lieved correctly, that in the preparation of clayed sugars
Committee. neither rum nor molasses were produced. At the same
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Government had as- time he must admit that if the Hon. Baronet had accom•
sisted the Hon. Member for the Flint boroughs with partied his figures with the explanation which he had
the legal co-operation of the Solicitor-General and of now given he should not have said what; he did.
the Judge-Advocate, and he himself had done all he Sir J. PAKINGTON said that he did make the ex-
could in the way of giving the Hon. Member opportimi- planation at the time, but his remarks were not reported.
ties for proceeding with his Bill. There had been so Mr. WILSON was quite satisfied on that point. With
much opposition to it, however, on the other side of the respect to the difference in value between clayed and
House, at every stage, that much delay had been occa- Muscovado sugars, that was taken into account in the
sioned, and there seemed the probability of much further differential estimate of cost. He repeated, had he seen
delay before an inquiry into the alleged bribery in the the statement of the Hun. Borenet in print, he should
borough of Derby could take place. In fact, if the House not have reviewed his figures.
did not issue the writ until:after inquiry, there was every Mr. P. MILES said that the Honourable Member
probability, considering -the state of public business and ought to have exercised more caution before he ventured
the period of the session, that the writ would not issue to tax the Honourable) Baronet with error. He was
at all until next session. Under these circumstances, disposed to go further than the Right Hon. Gentleman
he thought it would be unfair to withhold the writ any who stated last night (Mr. W. Gladstone), that the West
longer, bearing in mind, as he did, that the issue of Indians ought to have some relief given to them, be-
the writ now would in no way preclude that inquiry cause they had had none since the emancipation was
into the alleged bribery which the Committee had re- granted. He (Mr. P. Miles) thought that when the
commended. slave labour was taken away and the produce thereby
Mr. THORNELY called upon the House to sustain reduced one-half, some means ought to have been
the decisions of its Committees. The conduct of the afforded the planters of controlling the freed negroes
Election Committees in this, the first Parliament after and of obtaining other labourers. Some protection was
the statute creating them as now constituted, had by its undeniably due to the West Indies, in order to enable
impartial and straightforward honesty given general them to compete with the foreign slave colonies. If that
satisfaction to the country ; but if Committees found was nut done they must abandon the West Indian
that their decisions were not sustained by the House, Islands. In fact, orders were going out every day from
they would be discouraged from an adherence to that merchants and West India proprietors here to cease cul•
course which they had hitherto pursued. It appeared to tivating their estates. He could read some of these
him that the issuing of writs in this way to boroughs letters to the House; and, indeed, he knew that upwards
formerly convicted of much bribery and grievously sus- of one hundred estates had been abandoned, owing to the
petted of still more, would be holding out a premium to inadequate price of sugar as compared with the cost of
corruption.—(Hear, hear.) producing it. The immediate consequence would be,
Sir R. PEEL adhered to the opinion he had formerly that the West Indies would cease to produce sugars, and
expressed, that the Government ought to have lost no the machinery now there would be transferred to Cuba,
time in taking some step or other for prosecuting those from which place the supply would thenceforth come.
inquiries which the Select Committees had specially re- The Hon. Member for Westbury had read a statement
ported to be essential to the purposes of justice.—(Hear, respecting the wages of free labourers in the West In-
hear.) Had the Governmeut itself brought forward a dies. In Guiana they had been reduced only 5 per
measure for this object, one night's, discussion, cent.; in Trinidad, he admitted, the reduction was one-
or less, iwould have effected the purpose, and have half ; and in other islands (save Jamaica) the reduction
saved the House many hours, many evenings he was 25 per cent. But what was the amount of wages
might say, that had since been lost in desultory debates in the island of Trinidad? Why, for a day of four or
on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) It really appeared to five hours only, the free labourers get Is. 31—(Hear,
him very manifest that, under the peculiar circum- hear.) What made the matter worse was that at this
stances of the case, with the demand for inquiry from moment the West Indian worked with a certainty of
so many quarters, the demand for further changes in further reduction in the price of this commodity. It
the franchise, the demand for an extension of the Act had been said that the present distress was not so much
of 1832—it really appeared to him that no time should attributable to the Bill of 1846 as to the commercial
have been lost in prosecuting an inquiry into the cases distress prevailing generally over the world. He dit-
where corruption was charged.—(bear, hear.) Here, fered from that opinion, seeing that the distress had
in this borough of Derby, in the only ten cases of arisen in the face of an increased consumption to the
alleged bribery proceeded with, out of 166 indictments, amount of thirty thousand tons annually, and also
all had been clearly brought home to the parties, and because it was immediately co-existent with the in-
the Committee reported that they had strong grounds troduction of slave-grown sugar into this country.
for the belief that had the inquiry gone on the same (Hear, hear.) He had said that the result
result would have taken place in the other eases. That of the present state of things would be the general aban.
inquiry did not go on, simply because the parties, seeing donment of estates. He would now explain his meaning.
this result, thought it advisable to withdraw. The He should have said that there would be a cessation of
question was, whether the House, too, should withdraw cultivation.—(Hear, hear.) One or two years must elapse
from the inquiry—(Hear, hear)—or whether, until full before final abandonment, to allow the planter to con.
inquiry had been made, the course of justice did not vert his stock of canes on h Aid into rum and sugar. Ul-
require that the writ should be suspended. It was his timately they would be abandoned, and England would
decided opinion that it should, and he should, therefore, be placed in the humiliating position of depending for
oppose the issue of the writ.—(Hear, hear.) her supply of sugar on the slave-growing contries of
Sir R. INGLIS contended that it would be unjust to - Cuba and Brazil. In taking sugar from the latter coon-
the 1,660 electors of Derby, whose conduct had not been try, the slave dealer was directly encouraged more than
impugned, to disfranchise them until next session, or, any other party. The planter bought slaves from him on
perhaps, till next Parliament, because ten other electors credit, paying him enormous interest for the accommo-
had been proved guilty of corruption, and 156 others dation, so that the plantations might be said literally to
not proved, but suspected of it. be worked for the benefit of the traffickers in slaves.--
Mr. AGLIONBY said he should abstain from voting (Hear, hear.) Hon. Members asked permission to buy
' one way or the other. After the course the House had in the cheapest market; why not allow our planters to
' taken with reference to two other boroughs, he could not buy labour on the same principle?---(Hear.) At present
vote against the issuing of the writ; and, with his he was confined to the dearest, paying the free labourer
opinion of the conduct of the Derby constituency, he high wages for four or five hours' work, while the
could not vote for it. He considered that the House had planter of Cuba extracted from fourteen to sixteen
failed in its duty in not prosecuting an inquiry, since hours' labour daily from his slaves. The question was
Government had omitted to do so. entirely one of the supply of labour. Until our planters
Mr. S. HERBERT asked why had not the Hon. and got a plentiful supply, and at a reasonable rate, it was
Learned Member himself vindicated the character of the useless to think of their contending with the foreigner.
House by undertaking the task he reproached them for He had heard it urged that the fertility of the West
leaving undone.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Unlike Indies was not so great as elsewhere. He begged to
the Hon. Member. he should vote, and his vote would contradict that assertion. He had seen as good land in
be against the issuing of the writ. the British West Indies as in either Cuba or Brazil.
Mr. BRIGHT said that the blame of all the inconais- All the planters wanted was labour and capital, and they
tency of the House in these matters rested upon the Go- would produce as heavy crops as their slave•growing
vernment, whose vacillations had been such as to have neighbours. It was idle to say that they were interested
utterly confused every one, and more especially that in maintaining a high price. On the contrary, they
party of Hon. Gentlemen who habitually, without any were as much interested in diminishing the cost of pro-
ver; nice inquiry, voted as Government voted. These duction as Hon. Members opposite, and only asked the
gentlemen had become wholly at a loss out of which means to do so. As to worn-out estates, he did not be-
door the Government wanted them to walk upon these lieve in them. In Barbadoes and Trinidad, old colonies '
divisions. As a teller on the previous night, he had where labour was plenty, he believed that they would in
observed four of them, whose votes turned the division, a little time be able to hold their ground against the
who had evidently lost their way on the occasion. It slaveholders. As to the other colonies, let them exercise
appeared to him that the House was bent upon wholly all the skill and economy in the world, they would not
forfeiting with the people whatever character still re- be for some time in a condition to enter into the compe-
mained to it. tition which this Bill was calculated to force on them,
Lord MAHON supported the issuing of the writ. the fruits and benefits of emancipation would be re-
Mr. V. SMITH denied that the present law of con- tarded, and thus the best possible argument would be af-
troverted elections was satisfactory to the people, who forded in favour of the slaveholder.
merely regarded the honest decisions pronounced by the Mr. HAWES said be quite agreed with what had
Committees this session in the light of a series of forte- fallen from the Right Hon. Member for Oxford Univer-
nate accidents, not es the result of a sound system. It city on the previous evening as to the condition of the
was essential to render election tribunals cheaper of ac- labouring population of the West Indies being an impor-
cess, speedier in their proceedings, and to inspire greater tent element in considering this question, If the Bill
confidence in their (Weston& of 1846 had tended to deteriorate that condition he
Mr. COBDEN (who was met like nearly all the pre- (Mr. Hawse) should have opposed it; but his firm be-
vious speakers with loud cries of " Divide, divide") said lief was that stripping West India sugar of all protec-
it was really very difficult to get in a word. It' you rose Lion was the best way of insuring the welfare and hap-
to speak at a quarter to seven you were put down by piness of the great mass of the population. He could not
Members who wanted to dine ; if you rose to speak at trace the evils complained of by the Hon. Member for
ten you were put down by Members who had dined.— Bristol to the Bill of 1846, and therefore he felt bound
(Laughter.) He considered that while the Noble Pre- to adhere to the policy it established which was tempo-
mier ought, in accordance with the principles he had so rary protection to the colonies during a period of tran-
emphatically enunciated, to have prevented, by his active sition to complete free trade. Why was it necessary
efforts, the issuing of the write to Horsham—since cer- now to modify that Bill? Two classes of reasons might
tam it was that, aided by the Right Hots. Member for be given. In the first place, the commercial distress
Tamworth, he could do as he pleased in that House—yet prevailing throughout the empire had deprived
that the Noble Lord was not wholly to blame in the mat- the West Indians of a portion of the time which
ter, for, manifestly, progress had been delayed by the might be used in preparation for free trade.
knot of gentlemen who sat on the lower ranges of Again the introduction of a superior quality of foreign
benches opposite. Whatever the House might do in the sugar which had not been anticipated had deprived them
matter, the case would be regarded out of doors on a of some of the indulgence which they had been promised.
very distinct and comprehensive basis. All these things, But there was another consideration, and that was, that
viewed by the people as the outward and visible sign of in- it was the concurrent opinion of all parties that the
ward corruption, were weighed accordingly. He held in his West Indies were in a state of great distress, and that
hand a petition signed by a most respectable person, who therefore, relief of some kind was absolutely necessary.
prayed that the borough of St. Alban's might be placed
—(Hear.) In his opinion the plan of the Government
in schedule Aof the Hon. Member for Flints Bill. Mr. offered a prospect of the most substantial relief, and it
Sturt, the petitioner, stated that at the last election for was for the West Indians themselves to consider whether
St. Alban's the corruption and bribery were open and their condition would be bettered by the conflict of par-
unblushing; that bad as had been the doings at former ties and opinions which its introduction had occasioned.
elections there, those as the late election were Now, the lion. Member for Bristol had asserted that the
still worse; that the two opposing candidates re- West Indians had never been in such a state of distress
turned were men of directly contrary principles, as at the present moment. If that were true, all former
the one being a high Tory and the other a complaints must have been mere cries of " wolf," while
strong Radical, that their election had been conducted the present was the only foundation in truth. He would
by the same agent, and their bribery and corruption had not do them the injustice to think so; he believed that
been paid out of the same purse.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. there was some foundation in former complaints, an h i
Sturt distinctly stated, that of the 400 and odd persons was prepared to show that in former times and oneor-e 1
who voted, there were not 50 who had not taken a mer occusious their complaints far surpassed what was
bribe. The petitioner affixed his
.mtom and addiess to
stated at the present time. In a report of the Houre of
his petition, and prayed for leave and opportunity to
prove his case. And this was not the only case that Assembly of Jamaica prepared iu the year 1804, it was
stated that although the abolition of the slave-trade
needed inquiry; by no means. He (Mr. Cobden) be-
might be an effectual it was not the sole means by which
turned to that House had been returned
lieved that the majority of the borough memberseither b re- the West India islands might be ruined. The same object
y might be effected more gradually by encouraging the cul-
bribery and corruption or by patronage. No one could ovation of sugar in the East Indies. The report went on
doubt that the House was indifferent to corruption. The to state that every British merchant, holding securities
seats vacated by the recent decisions of the Election on real estates was filing bills in chancery to foreclose,
Committees ought to have been transferred to large con-
stituencies, such as Kensington, Staleybridge, and although when he had obtained his decree he hesitated
to enforce it, because in such case he must undertake
Barnsley.
the plantation himself, which fatal experience told him
Mr. REPTON, as one of the Members for St. Alban's, would be ruin. Nobody, continued
the report, would
denied, in the most solemn manner, the imputation of the lend money on estates; in fact, so great was the
Hon Member for the West Riding. He had no know-distress
that the reporters feared that a, faithful detail would ap-
ledge of his Hon. Colleague previous to the moment pear like a frightful caricature. He (Mr. Hawes) defied
when he met him on the hustings, and he neither, di any one to show such a state of distress' from Lord
reedy nor indirectly, had anything to do with the Li • , ..•
Harris s aispatches.—(Hear, hear.)
alleged proceedings at the election for St. Alban's.
Mr. N Mr. ROBINSON—That was during the war.
of the issue of the writ. E WDEGATE said he should divide in favour Mr. HAWES—No; accounts of
distress might be
extending from that period down to
Mr. HORSMAN protested against the inconsistency quoted 1843.
displayed by the House, which would throw discredit Mr. BERNAL—That document referred only to
upon its proceedings in cases of corruption at elections. Jamaica.
lie should vote against the issue of the writ. Mr. HAWES begged the Hon. Member's pardon ;
Lord GALWAY said that the Hon. Member for the there were cases from several colonies of abandonment
West Riding had unjustly attacked small boroughs, of of estates and general complaints of ruin. Now all this
had occurred before the first Sugar Bill, when Jamaie.
one of which he was a representative. The Ron. Mem-
a
ber himself only owed his election for the West Riding had a monopoly, and he defied any one to show a simi-
lar state of things under free trade.—(Rear, hear.) He
to the creation of faggot votes.
Colonel SIBraoRE, said that he had so little confi- could show that from 1760 down to 1843 there had been
dance in the Hon. Member opposite, as to be determined, a regular succession of complaints of
or immediately
from thetelypend-
if ehe told him to gin one direction, to go in the oppo-
i
ing ruin. If the quantity of sugarmp
site one.—(A laugh). West Indies from the year 1831 to 1841 and thence to
The House then divided, when there appeared 1847 were taken, a remarkable inference might be
For issuing of the writ
embrace a period of slavery., then of apprenticeship, and
Against it
then of entirely free labour. The average annual lin-
Majority against issuing of the writ
The writ is consequently still suspended. —l5
pertation during that period was 171,800 tons. For the
SUGAR DUTIES—ADJOURNED DEBATE. following seven years, cotntnencing with 1841, when the
Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to offer an explanation, in production
of Jamaica was reduced to its lowest point
consequence of a misrepresentation by the Honourable since 1831, the average annual importation was 127,323
Member for Westbury, of a statement made by tons ; the entire difference for the whole of the West
him on a formerevening relative to the co.t of the pro- Indies being only 44,477 tons. That was the amount of
ia,
duction of sugar in the slave colonies of Cuba, Brazils, the whole annual decrease. But when it was recollected
and Pcrto Rico. The Hon. Member had accused him that the duties betweentieN_Vitst there Illd
wasikta an .s.n,tr Indiarnot
l
n lEs
of making a very grave error, and as the question of
increase s t:garuter of e equalise
comparative cost of production was at the
sugarind' M and tha
auritilll, was it to be wondered
very root of the West India claims, he begged leave to that some diminution should have taken place? If he
make a few observations in defence of his former state-
took the four or five years preceding the present, he
gent, which he was prepared to assert was correct in
found nodec re asea,s but an lc- mw (t).u;s
ii
lei c r 1 eBa4sse;
~817571,(830404
all its parts, whilst that made by the Hon. Member for 3
022,000
the production.
w 2,152,000 ewt.; and in 1847
cwt.; in 18.46
Westbury was erroneous to the extent of the difference
cwt. This did not show any iedication of the, aleandon-
between them ; and he must express his belief that the
sugar. Looking to Jamaica
Honourable Member had not given careful attention to
arta:let
,otrhtebeavceurlatgiv P
eatienriof
r'iettotiolt of the three years, 1840,
was 603,750 (:wt., whilst the average of
the evidence printed in the West Indian Committee re-
port, notwithstanding he had so entirely relied on it. 1841, and 1842,

`he three subsequent years was 644,145 cwt., and the
average for the two years 1846 and 1847 was 662,000
cwt.; so that there was an increase of importation for
.he whole period from the diminution of the duties. He
was. thereiore, disposed to look to a different cause fur
he distress of the West Indies titan the diminution of
erotection. Could it be shown that protection bed
tone the least good? Ile challenged any one to
,how him any unbroken prosperity iii the West India
iolonies for any period of lung continuance.—(Cries of
" Hear, hear.") And if he concurred in the protection
iiow proposed, it was rather out of deference to the feel-
ings ot others than from any hope in his own mind that
the West India planters would derive arty benefit from
—(Hear.) But if they were to hiv' protection as be-
rween this country and the colonies, how were they to
adjust the protection between colony and colony, be-
cause the cost of production was not the same in all Ole
colonies ? Berbacloes and Antigua. for instance, could
produce cheaper than the others. The protection to one
colony, then, would be a bounty to the other, and that
was the view of the clue:lion taken by Mr. Marriott, as
tppeared from Lis evidence before the Committee.--
(Hear, hear.) Then, were they to tax the labourers of
this country for, as he would show, the most improvident
and extravagant management of estates that ever was
known ?—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Bernal.) He would
prove that to the lion. Member for Rochester on the
most unquestionable authority. The truth must be
told.—(Cheers.) And the people of this country
must know it. This tax of 10s. was not to help the
labouring population of the West Indies, but to keep
up the estates in the West Indies, no matter how
they were managed, and whatever was the cost of Fee
duction.—(Bear, hear.) Another ground put forward as
a justification for protection, was that of high wages'
This was the first time he ever heard such an argument
put forward. It was well known that the higher the
wages the cheaper the production, and for this reason,
that high wages were a consequence of skilled labour,
and large production of skilled labour. The great fault
of the West India planters was, that they relied too
much en brute labour, and neglected the aid of science,
skill, and agricultural improvement.—(Hear.) In Porto
Rico, according to Consul Crawford, the wages were
Is. 6d. a day, and in Santa Cruz ls. Bd., according to
Lord Harris. This was higher than was paid in the Brie
tish West Indies; and vet those islands were in a flow
rishing condition. He believed that if wages were higher
in the West India colonies, that the planters would pro'
duce cheaper than they now did. It was slid that the
Sugar Bill of 1846 ruined the Mauritius. Now he would
prove from the mouths of Mauritius merchants there'
selves that this was not so, because, in 1846 itself,
before the Bill of that year could have any effect, they
made representations to the Government that, with the
largest supply of labour at the cheapest rate that was
ever known, they were ruined.—(The Hon. Gentleman
here read a statement made by the merchants of 2,191'
ritius to the Governor, in which they said that Maur'.
tius was ruined, that only the most favourably Bawl
estates would yield a profit over the expenditure, an
that even these barely yielded a moderate interest on
the capital invested, notwithstanding the extent of the
crop and the high prices which existed.) This was 13
May, 1846.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") In St*'
1847, the Governor said that the condition of Mauritius
was an enigma to him, and a melancholy one.
years ago the merchants told him that if they got e
supply of cheap labour, and could raise 100,000,000ib9.,
they would not dread the competition of slave labour•
;
They had the cheapest supply of labour that was eyed,
known, and their produce was more than they expecteof
and yet they said they were ruined by the Bill f
1846.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. Hunter, one u
the most eminent dealers of the Mauritius said that
coolie labour was higher than slave labour—that the
total cost of a cooly, including rations, was 191., whilsttithe cost of a slave was only 41. The Mauritius met'
chants in London laid statements before the Committee'
which showed that the produce of a cooly was two ton_
a
and 3-sths, that reduced the cost of sugar to 7s. 8(1. pe,l
cwt. Now the price of a slave in Cuba was 100/., u;
the interest of money there twelve per cent. Maktngt d
fair allowance for the cost of wear and tear, and loss, i 14
for the (IA rence in the rations, that would make t
cost of a slave ISt 1 ls.; and lie produced, according t
the evidence laid beSore the Committee, three tons of
sugar, e filch reduced the cost in Cuba to 66. 04t1.Pere
f
cwt. That made a difference of Is. Bil. in the cost e
labour alone. But was there anything in that differeect.,
to justify a protection of 10e. for which the people ofno
this country were to Brit ?—(ilear, hear.) They heu.'
right to call on the ish public to pay for protectidie
till every improvement had been introduced into !h
West Indies, and till they reduced the cost of producttoa
to the lowest amount.—(lleur.) Ile would show the West
India planters that they were a wasteful set of melee'
facturers—that they did not produce so largely or tea;
nufacture so economically as they ought.—(Hear, heate).
And they ought to do both before they came to ask
protection from the people of this country.—(Hear.) Ia
respect to Guiana, Dr. e.,hears says that, by improved
methods of cultivatice, the produce of Guiana might be
_
increased 25 per cent. Lord Harris says that a large_
increase might take place in Trinidad under a better'
system. Mr. Ray says—" The hoe is still in genest
use,
and it
agents d
i s withe p
ted an
reluctance
expensivethatmode
e
theplough
t• ivy
suiseied.
The z
their stock of cattle. Many of the local journals bon!
testimony of the same kind; for let it not be supposed_
that public opinion in the colonies was all on the side of
protection. The Berbice Gazette and the Trinidad Spey
tator spoke in reprobation of the bad mode of cultivation
adopted. The Morning Journal, of Jamaica, says, "We
have too long persisted in the old humdrum system, and
in the use of the hoe." It bad been said that the Co-
lonial-office disallowed laws which the Colonial Legis-
latures passed. He challenged Gentlemen opposite to
state one single good law which had been disallowed by
the Secretary of State. Since 1843 the colonial assem-
blies had full liberty to pass any laws they pleased. But
he had seen with regret, and not without indignation,
that attempts were made, between 1885 and 1840, to
bring back the negro who had escaped from the lash to
the condition of a serf, by means of the ingenuity of the
law. The Hon. Gentleman here quoted several Acts
passed by the Legislature of St. Vincent's, Barbadoes,
and other islands, which subjected the negroes to in 2"
prisonment and the treadmill for slight offences. As
to squatting, the evidence showed that very little of it
existed in the West India Islands. With reference
to emigration he wished to know what the
West India gentlemen specifically meant by their cry
for more labour ? Did they mean that this supply_
of labour was to be at the expense of the Government
• home ? He advised the West India planters to
e
concentrate their cultivation where necessary,
Cher than to diffuse it vaguely over large tracts. ,
aid not, however, believe there was so much additione
labour wanted as was represented, but rather a betteir:
more skilful, and cheaper method of cultivation. gear
tius was an example in point that abundance of lab4l
was not the one thing needful, for Mauritius since le
had received 74,000 labourers, yet Mauritius was ja,
state of deep distrees. The real cause of that distr
Tm
.he
was over-speculation, the indulgence on the part ofhtera
planters in highly exaggerated expectations. use
had been one remarkable omission in the whole diseo2
sion on the subject: not a word had been beard _
gentlemen opposite as to the interests of the consumers'
yet surely the wants of the people here were but t°1390
inht o,i)cguht; tichtoecir(())enu
iel
edgsl.eeffc :ecldteu
afoltihryet
bheeps
slave-tradeua kt
eno t e antdhpeatreotei
)u, s e
wr
aye
bt:
wwould
or,
the rendering free labour cheaper than slave I I;ese
and he believed this to Le in the limiest of the rtily
India :planters themselves, if they would but hear
adopt and carry out the eternal principles of free t
alike applicable to them as to ail other clesses of
tb
commercial world. d the
Lord G. BENTINCK said that his Hon. Fri" of
Member for Druitvvich had so fully given the history
the Committee over which he heti the honour to.rao
a de, that he need not occupy the House at any leerl"cesa-
that portion of the subject. The Right Hon• the oaf,
ceilor of the Exchequer had in his speech taken .ne or
thing for granted, both as to the future reduction to
our colonial sugar and our colonial rum, and also welt
he revenue to be thence derived ; but facts alone t she
b. regarded, and the facts in no degree bore cl,d be
Right Hon. Baronet's calculations. Nothing adiael by
more exact than the inquiries which had been m_ epee
the Committee in the view to those estimates rare
which they had founded their recommendations
-dement ; and what had been the result of these ea
eried
thins? Why, this, that upon the whole • lee of
of six years, ending in 1854, there would be a reee_llo,ol-
1,338,5001. arising from the plan proposed by th,en pro'
miltee, more than would be realised by the Ilia C 003:
posed by the Government. The proposal of tu'r, sad
mittee was to reduce the duty on colonial sugar' to
to
though, of course, a portion of the benefit weelec e;0009
l'
our colonial planters, a considerable part of the of
would then be levied out of the diminished proßtswite
lave owner, a result which every man impressed There
hatred of slavery must hail with gratification• cy of
could be no clearer proof of the aceurtiocieetdhesdt
the calculations upon which the Committee Pr
than the fact that when it was known out of door 4o-
CV
the Committee proposed to have a duty of 105• erareiga
nial sugar, and to retain the duty of 20s. on t, oil
sugar, there was at once a fall of ls, 6d. per C' our
l colonial, and a rise of is. 6d. on foreign sugars wod
U-
markets, so that the relief to the West Indies
oid,r,j.
be screwed out of the pockets• of the 810°1
ed of
The Hon. Under-Secretary for the Colonies talk nor;
the Committee having omittel to care for the COes! ee
whereas the Committee had shown themselves the _ trot
friends of the poor men here—the real suppeeterssoro
cheap prices in sugar, by proposing those eiel with
which would maintain the competition of colonist
foreign slave-grown sugar.—(Haar.); The Hon• e
any Secretary denied that the Act of 1846 had had ani
mom
to do with the ruin of the Mauritius, and had a,„/131846t,
morial or something of the kind to show that, "'Tdy of
Mauritius was in deep distress. Why, only in ";eeand
last year the Hon. Gentleman himself made a 'mete"'
point by citing Mauritius as the seat of high prusPeo,er-
-(Hear, hear.) And what said the dispatch of el he,
nor Sir William Gomm of the 6th Marco, 1847 ? ee
that the balance of colonial revenue in the Maerlesid
over expenditure was, in 1845, 16,816/, and in 1814Vir' ii,
risen to 50,9e9/. ; and for the then current year r
Liam had estimated the gross value of the colonial a
nil
ports over imports at 479,4151. But this was ot
culation of 271. per ton being realised by them es,• is
making an aggregate profit of 600,0001.; where__ea,
consequence of the depreciation of the value of :ese,
occasioned by the introduction of free.labouro,
,e,PeoL,
under the Act of 18-16, instead of a profit of 6f
there was a loss of 600,000/., and half as much
.oU'ac
If the Committee were chargeable with any ornissi:oo
all from its recommendations, that omission had reri'bo'
to the East Indies and Ceylon, and was wholly al! the
table to the influence of the Government, which, lira
medium of the Hon. Member for Westbury, had eniones,
defeated his (Lord G. Bentinek's) constant exer du
and those of his Mertes in the Committee, to give
weight to the claims of these Eastern possessiol...,
(Hear, hear.) In Cuba, while the interest of the A"

th planters in the West Indies was being utterly demo-
hed—in Cuba the production of sugar had increased
from
,e 80,000 tons, in 1831, to 240,000 tons last year.
;,:he Member for Westbury had endeavoured to shun
'flat the West Indies were not in that distressed sten-
which had been set forth on that (the Opposition) side of
the House. He went into a long history of the coin-
Plaints made at various times by the British colonists.
What class was there in this country which had not
-Poe time to time complained of grievance and distress?
;44 what class was there that had so much le user)
to complain as our West Indian colonists ? After
the war every class received relief except that class.
Their taxes remained the same, whilst the value
ftftheir produce fell one-third, and the cost of cultivation
geoame greatly enhanced. The Member for Westbury.
as onoargument in support of his position, argued thet
al computing the losses of the West Indians they our ht
to calculate as if they had realised all the sugar which
tell:mined unsold. This was, indeed, a new system of
arithmetic. Gentlemen sitting in their libraries calcu-
lated as if all the property of the West Indies could at
tiny time be realised at any price. Only a few years
tgo the property of the West Indies was calculated at
tele hundred and thirty millions sterling. What was its
Zellue now?—(Hear, hear.) The price realised by West
'cilia and Mauritius sugars barely realised the cost of
Production. But he was not going to argue the question
tei free-trade grounds, for the case was an exceptional
ane, and did not admit of being so treated. The facts
the;
quite different from those which had characterised
,"te:, free-trade debates. When the Legislature took
away the slaves from the West India planters, it did
,8e with a distinct and well-understood engagement
that they were to be protected in their own
Market against slave-grown sugar of other colonies.
And let Honourable Members and Noble Lords talk
as they 4vould of the apathy of the West India planters,
that apathy had never hindered them from profitable
cultivation under the old system of slave-labour, and
subsequent to emancipation of protection. If, therefore,
the planters in the British colonies were deprived, first,
of their machines by which their cultivation was carried
an, and afterwards of the protection to which they were
entitled inconsequence of emancipation, had they not a
fight to complain of the bad faith of the Government and
s
‘11,3 Legislature by which those acts of arbitrary injustice
Were sanctioned and perpetrated? The Legislature had
treated the unhappy planters worse than Pharaoh did
the children of Israel. They called upon them to make
bricks without straw, and then taunted them by saying,
4Ye are idle, ye are idle." Far better had it been for
them to have had Egyptian taskmasters than to live
ander such a government as that of the Noble Lord.—
(Laughter and cheers.) But the Government was going
to grant half a million of money in order to en-
soUrage and carry out a plan of emigration of la-
'tourers to the West Indies under their immediate
superintendence and control. And this was to be the
treat boon that the West India planters were to receive.
Harris
could show the House, by the testimonies of Lord
narris and Governor Light, in what condition the ne-
trees arrived in the West Indies when imported into
those islands for the purpose of becoming labourers, and
then the House would be in a condition to judge of the
,aloe of such free labour. Lord Harris, in one of his
dispatches, says that, from all he had witnessed at Tri-
nidad, the undertaking could never be successfully car-
lied on as a public enterprise. It must be left to
'Private individuals, who, if they were allowed to carry
Ihit a plan of supplying African labourers to the West
Indies , would not enter upon such a scheme without
being amply provided with capital, and who would be
,able to find sustenance and profitable employ for the im-
migrated labourers. Both Governor Light and Lord
Harris spoke of the condition in which the Africans itn-
Ported under the supervision of the Government had
arrived from Sierra Leone in their respective colonies.
Those poor creatures had been landed in a most erne-
elated state, and about 10 per cent. of their number
died But their was another consideration to be taken
auto account in dealing with the question of immigration
of African labourers by Government agency, and that
Z,(18, the exp. nses attending the operation. He held in
his hand a statement of the result of one of these experi-
kenta, which he would shortly detail to the House. The
Government
as e ds chartered a ship called the Banga-
lore to proceed to Sit rra Leone, in order to receive a
certain stipulated number of liberated Africans, and to
convey them to Trinidad. The price paid for each
African was 71. ; and it was a condition of the charter
. Party that a certain numberewas guaranteed at this price,
and that whether they were embarked or not the Go-
/eminent paid the full price for the stipulated number.
surgeon and a superintendent were likewise provided
at the expense of the Government. The Bangalore ex-
pected to have conveyed 225 or 226 liberated Africans
from Sierra Leone to 'Trinidad ; bot after visiting all the
'settlements on the coast, and waiting the time named in
the charter, the ship sailed, and he had the certificate of
her arrival at Trinidad with one liberated African
°5l board.—(Loud cheers, and laughter.) And this was
the result of one of the first great steps to be taken
'1 the Government in order to benefit the West Indians,
and for which the Legislature was called upon to ad-
vanes half a million of money. The cost of transport-
ing this one negro, with his suite of surgical attendant
and inspector, was upwards of 7001., and for the same
emoney a governor-general and his suite might be con-
eyed,, to the East Indies.—(Great laughter, and cheers.)
And with such a specimen of the activity and intelli-
rice of Earl Grey and the lion. Member opposite, the
test Indians were to be told they were apathetic and
Me'VOid of understanding.—(Hear, hear.) The complaint
Which he made was that the truth was suppressed in the
colonial department, and that the information that was
received there was not fairly laid before the House.—
(Oh, and hear, hear,) The Hon. Member opposite (Mr.
.15. Hawes) had made an explanation the other night,
which he had not the good fortune to hear, of the acci-
dent which had occurred relative to the dispatch of Go-
vernor Grey, dated the 27th of March. He had told the
-louse
that it was the intention of Earl Grey and of him-
%elf to send that dispatch to the Committee at the time it
colonial-office
He admitted that the date of its receipt at the
`-;01onial-office was the 27th of March, and unless he was
kiarepresented the Hon. Colonial Under Secretar stated
that on the same day the dispatch reached his hands,
,With a minute on it to this effect:—" This is a copy of
e dispatch for which the Committee on West India
distress have asked. We had a copy of the document
Ithieh was required in the votes of the House of As-
trebly. It was to be sent tojhe Committee to-day."
WQuid it not be better to send instead a copy of this
allatch, which is important, with the report and evh
:tee which we have got now for the first time? There
• two copies. And so it is desirable to send it to-day.'
• ii.bat reached his hands from the Secretary of State with
hte words, " I agree with you that this dispatch ought to
and evidence
at the same time with the report
added,
evidence to which it refers." lie (Mr. Hawes)
" I agree," and on the 30th of-March his Noble
rtend made a minute to this effect, " This may be laid
. before the Committee as suggested." (" Hear,
hear,"
from Mr. B. Hawes.) So that it appeared a
he
on that very dispatch had taken place betwen
ite lion. Member and the Noble Earl, first on March
7 and then on March 30.—(Hear, hear.) The lion.
Under
Secretary cheered. Did he mean to deny the
• !act was so? The House would presently judge of the
value of the ironical cheers of the Hon. Member.—
(Cheers again.) The Hon. Under Secretary, having
• countersigned the minute of the 28th of March, made by
i,acl Grey on the dispatch, must have had possession of
$
e at that time, and have been cognizant of its contents.
ut let him (Lord G. Bentinek) refer to the evidence
liveen by the lion. Under Secretary before the West
am Committee. lie did not see the Right lion. Gen-
tleman the Member for the University of Cambridge in
• Place, but the House would bear in mind what etc
curved on a former evening, when, in answer to an ap-
eal from the Hon. Under Secretary, his Right Hon.
fiend revived the recollection of the Hon. Gentleman
, with, respect to the evidence given by him before the
west Indian Committee; and he must also remind the
uouse of the importance attached both by Earl Grey
and the Hon. Under Secretary to the dispatch of Sir
te. Grey. Mr. Goulburn asked the Honourable Mem-
ner (mr. Hawes) whether he could account to the
Committee fel. ;the absence of any accounts from the
Governor of Jamaica similar to those received from the
other colonies? The answer given by Mr. Hawes was,
"I imagine you allude to the Blue Book?" But that
was not what Mr. Goulburn meant. He repeated that
' he asked if there were no accounts from the Governor
of Jamaica, and the Honourable Under-Secretary cut
abort the question by saying, "those accounts are gene-
rally comprised in the annual report called the West
India Blue Book. But Mr. Goulburn was not to be put
aside from his purpose by the dexterous Under-Secre-
tary, and he repeated his question, " Does not the
Governor of Jamaica write dispatches respecting that
island, independently of the annual statements contained
iti the Blue Book?" And what answer did the witness,
the Honourable Under-Secretary, make to this question?
au begged the House to
.mark it. " I am not aware,
• said the Honourable Gentleman," of any dispatch which
has been withheld from the Committeeense
cheers and counter cheers.) Now, if the minute which
the Honourable Under-Secretary had read was not
written after his evidence was given to the Committee--
' (Oh, oh)—what must the House think of the me
'ue Honourable Under-Secretary ?—(Hear, hea mo
r.)ry of
On
lhe 27th of March the dispatch was an important one;
but on the sth of April, nine days afterwards, the
honourable Under-Secretary knew of no important dis-
Patch which had not been already laid before the Com-
, teittee.
Mr. B. HAWES—Read on.
Lord G. BENTINCK would read on, and he would
show
how the. Hon. Member had held the Governor of
"Mnaica up to the indignation of the people of Jamaica
and the West Indian community, for not having made a
tpresentation of the real state of that island, whilst the
sel!Ttltch wherein he did so was withheld from the Com-
im,e.lttee, and then the Hon. Member might plume himself
ste he could. In a subsequent answer, the Hon. Gentle-
;an attributed the receipt of no important dispatch to
livery
fact of the Governor having only been in the island
livery short time. He then said there was a dispatch,
and that the Committee should have whatever the Colo-
nial office was in possession of. The dispatch, when it
did appear, was found wholly to refer to the agriculture
o 1 the island, and would have come in the very nick of
time to enable the Committee to decide a very important
toint—the degree and extent of protection that ought to
afforded to the colonies. That dispatch concluded
with this important passage:—" A permanent gazette
rice of less than 30e per cwt. for West India Muscovado,
firmly believe will cause the greater portion of the
sugar cultivation of this island to be abandoned ; and if
were to be called upon for a recommendation founded
tae
the most comprehensive and painstaking review of
whole subject which I am capable to take, it would
l'e that the duties on British Muscovados should be
e
era
egut towards the limits of a p nny per pound, and
,
"°so on foreign to twopence.—(Hear, hear.) lie would
Wore ask the Right Honourable Gentleman, the President
e°' the Board of Trade, whether he had not seen or been
nare of that dispatch being received, before it was
licl before the House.

Mr. LABOUCHERE.—I have no objection to answer
the question of the Noble Lord. I certainly have not
seen the dispatch.—(Cheers.)
Lord G. BENTINOK proceeded to rand some extracts
from the Jamaica newspapers, conjecturing that some
dispatches had been kept bale ; and said that since
the celebrated days of " ere( n-liagisin," and l‘leicccl,io
with his "non mi ricordo," there had never been such a
notorious instance of short memory as that displayed by
the Hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary to the Colo-
nies.—(Hear, hear.) On the 4th of May, a report was
laid before the Committee from Mr. Stipendiary Strutt,
this report had been accompanied by a dispatch from
Governor Light, but that dispatch the Committee never
saw. Mr. Strutt recommended the introduction of new
machinery, admitted that some proprietors might be tk o
poor to purchase the machines, but blamed them f, e- their
apathy, and said the mode of manufacturing sugar in
Berbice was the same as it was thirty years ago. But
why was the dispatch of Governor Light held back,
which gave a very different account of the state of
affairs, while that of the stipendiary was laid before the
Committee 7—(lldar, hear.) It had been repeatedly urged
that the want of resident proprietors was the cause of
the colonial distress. This argument had been the main-
stay of Earl Grey in the Colonial-office. By the same ar-
rival which brought Governor Light's dispatch, that of
the 24th April, contained a letter from certain of the
colonists denying fhat there was any foundation in fact
for the supposition of his Lordship, that the proprietors
of West India estates were to a large extent non- resident.
Governor Lord Harris, in a dispatch of the sth of May,
said that the position of the colony was most deplorable,
that bankruptcy and insolvency were staring them in the
face, and that bold and immediate measures were de-
manded—adding that the question was whether the cul-
tivation should be allowed to cease, and the estates to e,o
to ruin, or such assistance afforded as would. enable the
cultivation to be continued. Such was the language that
had been kept back from the Committee. But he went
further, and said that under the present grievous cir-
cumstances of the colony it would only be politic on the
part of the mother country to show some sympathy to
wards it as early as possible. He (Lord G. Ben-
tinck) hoped that the Noble Lord at the head
of the Government would make some satisfactory
answer on the subject. Nothing was so repugnant
to the feelings of the British people as a packed
jury ; and he complained that there had been a
packed jury in this case ; that witnesses who would
have given evidence in favour of the colonies were kept
back, and those who told against them broughtyforward.
In conclusion he had only to recommend the Noble Lord
at the head of the Colonial Department to attend to the
opinions of a Whig statesman, who said that a refined
policy had ever been the parent of confusion and ever
would be—that plain, honest intention, which could as
easily be discovered as fraud would be detected at last,
was the best that could be pursued.—(Cheers.)
Mr. G. THOMPSON having moved the adjournment
of the debate (on the suggestion of Lord J. ltussell),

Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not wish to address
the House on the question at so late an hour, but would
avail himself of the motion of adjournment to defend
his Noble Colleague from the charge made against him
by the Noble Lord opposite. There was certainly
nothing in the character of his Noble Friend, public or
private, to justify the Noble Lord in charging him
with fraud. He defied the Noble Lord to say that there
was, or that any one would be justified in casting the
slightest stain upon his integrity. Upon what did the
Noble Lord found his accusation? Upon the proceeding
which took place in reference to a dispatch which arrived
on the 27th of March, and which dispatch had been dealt
with in the ordinary course, and, according to the esta-
blished practice, had first been sent to a clerk of the par-
ticular office to which it belonged. That officer marked
that it was important, and that it ought to be laid be-
fore the Committee. Oa the same day his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Hawes) assented to that proposal, and on the 30th
of March Lord Grey made a minute that it was to be
laid before the Committee. On the sth of April his Hon.
Friend, when examined before the Committee, said he
was not aware of any dispatch of any importance having
been withheld—supposing at the moment that the dis-
patch in question either was then before the Cemmittee,
or that it would be laid beture the Committee.—(Hear.'
The Noble Lord, therefore, was not justified in saying
that his (Lord J. Russell's) Noble Friend (Lord Grey)
wished to conceal or suppress any dispatch, or with
hold it from the Committee. If concealment were
his object, he would have withheld it from that
House. —(Hear, hear.) But such mean frauds—such dis-
honourable practices—were not the characteristics of men
who held high offices in this country, but of men who
were engaged in those pursuits which the Noble Lord
so long followed.-(Loud cries of " Oh," and groans
from the Bentinck and also from the Radical party.)
The Noble Lord might have greatly distinguished him-
self in detecting frauds about the name or age of a horse
—(Renewed groans)—but when he imputed to men of
the character of Lord Grey the fraudulent conduct of
suppressing the truth, with the view of evading a know-
ledge of the truth, lie totally misconceived that Noble
Lord's character, or the character of any roan with
whom he (Lord J. Russell) had been acquainted us
holding high office in the State. The imputations of
the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn were utterly un-
founded; and he was convinced, when the whole of
these matters came to be discussed, it would be univer-
sally admitted that the Noble Lord in this case, as in
others—that, for instance, of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man who was late Prime Minister—(Loud cries of
" Oh,")—and, within these few days, respecting a gen-
tleman holding a subordinate office in the Board of
Trade—that the Noble Lord, in making these reckless
and unfounded imputations, injured not the characters
of the men whom he assailed, but his own.—(lronical
cheering.)
Mr. DISRAELI could not help thinking—had the
Noble Lord allowed the debate to terminate, or entrusted
its future destinies to the volunteer who moved the ad-
journment—(A laugh)—that neither the reputation of
the Noble Lord nor that of his Noble Colleague at the
head of the Colonial Department would have at all suf-
fered.—(Hear, hear.) It was for the House to say whe-
ther the latter Noble Lord had been vindicated with
success—(Great cheering from the Opposition and Ra-
dical parttes)—seeing that the statement of the Noble
Lord the Member for Lynn, be it right or wrong, was
supported by much detail and strong testimony. Had
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government said any-
thing which should influence the House on this subject?
—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord's colleague had been
accused of a suppressio veri, and the Noble Lord's an-
swer was that he knew nothing about it.—(Conservative
cheers.) Of three charges he only noticed one, and of
that he said merely that he knew nothing about it. It
was not decorous or decent of the Noble Lord to meet
his Noble Friend's statement in that manner.—(Cheers.)
The Noble Lord had dwelt upon the high character and
pedigree of his Noble Colleague, but that character
was only to be maintained by meeting manfully what-
ever charges might be brought, no matter from what
quarter. The Noble Lord had sneered at a noble pas-
time, with what justice let the gentlemen of England
decide this; however, he would say, that his (Mr.
Disraeli'e) Noble Friend's experience in such matters
had proved of good service in that House. His ho-
nesty, his indefatigable powers of investigation, his in-
domitable spirit that would not be cowed oy any bravo,
no matter what might be his position—(Tremendous
cheering)—that would not be bullied either in the ring
or from the Treasury benches—(Cheers and laughter)—
had done good service in exposing the manner in which
the business of the Colonial•office was carried on.—
(Hear, hear.) As to the circumstance in private life to
which the Noble Lord had with such exquisite taste
alluded—(Hear, hear)—on that occasion, his Noble
Friend did not, like other public characters, pocket the
testimonial offered to him by a committee of which the
Duke of Bedford was chairman—(Loud cheers)—but
appropriated it to the use of those classes whose honesty
he wished to improve, as it was now wished to improve
the Colonial-office.—(Cheers.) Surely the Noble Lord
did not refuse the advice of his Grace the Duke of Bed-
ford because he was a member of the Jockey Club.—
(Hear, hear.) He should only say further• that the
charges which had been made by his Noble Friend
were before the country, and must receive a more satis-
factory answer than that which they had just heard
from the Noble Lord.
Mr. LABOUC HERE complained of the recklessness
with which th© Noble Lord the Member for King's Lynn
made charges against public servants.—(" Oh I" and cries
of " Name.") He would instance the cases of Mr.
Porter and Mr. J. Wood, the Chairman of the Excise,
whom the Noble Lord accused in his draft report of hav-
ing "fenced" in giving his evidence.—(Hear, hear.)
The fact was, that whenever the Noble Lord detected a
mistake in any public document, he immediately imputed
it to fraud and design. With regard to the question
before the House, he (Mr. Labouchere) would only say
that the Noble Lord had not tho slightest shadow of
foundation for his assertion.—(Oh, oh.)
Sir E. N. BUXTON, as a Member of the Committee,
stated his belief that the charge against the Hon Under-
Secretary of State was utterly and entirely without
foundation.—(Hear, hear.) He fully agreed with the
Noble Lord the Member for King's Lynn in thinking
it unfortunate that the error had been made, but he
persisted in believing it an error, and nothing more.
Mr. HAWES said that the Noble Lord had twice
brought forward charges which it was impossible to pass
by without notice. He (Mr. Hawes) had stated, in
answer to the first charge, that the dispatch of the
27th of March was an important dispatch, and required
to be laid before the Committee. His Noble Friend re-
ceived it on the 28th, and returned it on the 30th of
May. The Noble Lord now again made the charge in
the same way on a Friday night without notice, know-
ing that it could not be answered before Monday.—(Oh,
oh.) That was not all. The Noble Lord had made a
charge which he (Mr. Hawes) would call upon him to
prove—a charge whichf lie would tell the Noble Lord was
wholly and entirely
ais
false .—(Chair,
chair)
The SPEAKERsaid the Right Hon. .Member was not
entitled to say that the Noble Lord had made a charge
which he knew to be false.
Mr. HAVES
h
wished said the
was
that
c thhaer g e wa f
charge
s should
le.
osuld—b(eH fullye ar,
hear.) All e
investigated.
Lord G. BENTINCK would only say, that if the
minutes and memorandum were got up subsequent to
the examination, the Hon. Gentleman must have been
troubled with the shortest memory that had been heard
of since the days of Majocci, with his non mi ricordi—
(A laugh)—for though there had been three separate
discussions on the subject, he distinctly stated that no
dispatch had been received connected with the agricul-
ture or social state of Jamaica. Ho was prepared to
standdyig n chharywgehas of fa
what he said, and he judged, not by ban-
hood—(Hear,
as they appeared in the evidence, as
by facts
Mr. BAILLIE reminded the Honourat.ilc Member
(Mr.an slwltee%rvetso a
)thqautehsteiohn put
dsuotletmo him by
solemnly declared in the House,
in
Right Hoe.
Member e, that he had not received any
for Cainbride
other dispatches from Jamaica.
question Mr. HAWES explained that the was asked
4 by Mr. Goulburn after his (I,lr. lialves's) examination

by the Committee, and after the arrival of the West
India packet, and ho understood it to refer to inform*
Lion received by that packet.—(oh.)
Mr. MILES contended that as the dispatch in ques-
tion was proved to have been received, it would not do
to throw the blame of withholding it on any mere clerk
in the Colonial-offic2.

Lord PALMERSTON said, if the duty rested with a
clerk whether it would do or not, the neglect must be
charged to that clerk.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord read
the questions put to Mr. Hawes, and the answers given
tiy him to show that there was, in reality, no conceal
tnent on his part, and that he acted under the firm con-
viction that the official direction to produce the dif,pateli
had been carried into effect. It was for the Committee,
when they found the dispatch was not produced, to have
called for it.—(A laugh.)
Mr. HENLEY did not think that the explanation of
the Noble Lord or the Hon .Gentleman had been very sa-
tisfactory ; but, after all, the question was in a narrow com-
pass. It was a question of facts, and by facts it must be
determined. There was no reason given for not laying
the dispatch before the Committee. On the whole, it
was not surprising that some persons should suspect
that a little practice had been used.—(Hear, hear.) It
was at all events a very odd transaction.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of GRANBY said he was not surprised
that the Noble Lord should have hesitated so much as
he did in reading the answers to the questions to the
Hon. Under-Secretary by the Committee, because those
answers were in direct contradiction to what the Hon.
Under-Secretary had stated that night. He stated that
it was the fault of a clerk that the document was not laid
before the Committee; but the Hon. Under-Secretary
said that the document was preparing, so that he must
have known that it was not in possession of the Com-
mittee on the sth of April.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that there was nothing inconsistent in the answers given
by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hawes).
The debate was then adjourned till Monday.
The House adjourned at Half-past Two o'clock.