The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-24 00:00:00

the men ache had selil hie -thews. wee) wrerld reeeive one antra jeeted. NP wee en-ev sn ese teet he himself had ' Now hr w wood the case? A man was allotted 100 shares in
of the profit, noteethstanuing he had g Lid the deed isen a qtedndly, particularly in new lines. In one 1 cne of these new companies, upon which he paid a deposit of
of the company.—( Hear.) B* parting ssis.itee his. scripei . line with which he was connected he took a particular interest, 1 21. per share on 2001., and afterwards sold them at a premium
he had forfeited all interest in the undertaking. : and a number of shares, because he believed it would be remu- for 700/. Now he was informed, at least he gathered from
He agreed with an Hon. Member, who had spoken this even- i nerative, but the very reverse had been the result. He had the newspapers, that in the event of the Government Bill not
inn., that it would not be safe at the present moment to go jno objection, and hehclieved that none was to be found, in these passinf , the purchaser of the scrip would be at liberty to bring
further than to apply the resolutions proposed by his Wow , resolutions. His impression, indeed, was that one-third of the an act: ,on to recover back the premium he had paid, and how,
Friend to the Bills now before Parliament. shareholders would pledge themselves to move for no aneration, let hit .n ask, would this operate ? Why, when called together
Mr. wse iwt ewe HERE said the object of the resolutions was and that that measure would give them general satisfaction ; , undew these resolutions the scripholders would say to them-
twofold. w First, to pa a Bill to regulate and amend the Bills arid this impression might not be the less from the cireum- l selves. "If we sanction the breaking up of this company we
under which railway Companies we e constituted, and he stances that the success of several of .he schemes had laid ! shall abandon our right to receive the premiums we paid on
which they were csrriee on ; and, secondly, to seems, doer a rule of the experses which dew ought to bear. Yet, i owe shares."
general question of railway speculation, to ,at the sane time, it must be recollected that the companies as 1 The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it was quite clear that
theeiich
he
should shortly devote his attention. ' they now stool were unable to divest themselves of the ex- I that the purchaser of scrip never could recover back the price
Ile heartily rejoiced that her ntajesty's Government had turned pens, sto which they wire subjected. They could not divest I he_ had_r Jiasidßtoo
RthNeForiginal allottee.
was glad he had called attention to this
e heir awe ,lion to a subject of such paramount importance. themselves of the exi.emes of the inquiry, of the employment
.M
Any one aho had the p tid slightest attenth nto what had been of counsel, and os all the other incidents which werdefnerc,7e-
mindpolnt.for
the
would have the effect of appeasing the public
to I Lord SANDON had but a few observations to make upon
on subject.
going on during the period of undue speculation must have nary to take the means for carrying out the prwojeercet,aeaenessary
seen that the attention of the Government should be directed, . institution of such further experiments as
and the itwerventien of the Legislature asked, to put an end confirm the validity of the project. Then as to the third the cubject of these resolutions He confessed he had received
ear, hear.) The prin-
t* discriminate
were
iii intended
e sandoeudlbdteafteweh
to a state of things which were extremely prejudicial ; resolution, he felt. it necessary to
,ask its , meaning, i them with most. hearty satisfaction,, and should give
-to individuals, and net creditable to the cern_ I His impression was, that those who were in possession of the. ' them, his cordial support.—(H
in deciding upon
anercial character of the country. There was only one i scrip ought to be considered the bond fide proprietors. It was ciple would be for the Committee,
thess et rl
fai npe dte
ere
di
eleehcniomn
point with reference to this subject to which he should venture necessary to ascertain this point,af •because he believed that I the various railwiayhprojecis,
hedouble schemes now in pendentli to advert ; namely, what the Right Hon. Gentleman had nine-tenths of the proprietors
stated with respect to reserved shares by directors of railways. existence were guise ready to. dissolve their companies since
feetoneptalli.leess aalnie.atd;crestwabhlTshhed.
oer nis e e
thoughtm o stfairly
proper
for
rr theth e
them
benefit
ta he oafa therrie
dc oi tin nt
()-
the commencement of
ht e p idc and he would guparantee his
elymeas,Riheieehrty in deciding unhesitatingly in favour of those
He confessed he was rather surprised at. the innocence of the
Right Honourable Baronet on the subject, because he
h chemes of the last few years. He try. It Hopurs
Hon. Friend,
the Metmeesr es:Taunton, that no attempt would scheme
they would result in the public good, there
thought the. prevalence of the practice was a matter be madefrtioeardetearataertial
legislation, but he believed that for effect, and thethat
of notoriety, and, he might add, scandalous noto.- wasthe nneoxt twenty yearsil such a lesson had been read as would would. be no difficulty in allowing these projects to be pro-
riety. This system of reserving shares on
be a sufficient guard for the time to come. On these accounts seeded with. Theonly other point to which he should call the
he was quite ready to assent to the words of the resolution, attention of the Ho. use was as to the inconvenience of fixing
part of the persons who, from their station and influence, thh.e:
thought would have been incaeable of such a
theproceeding—this
Very harsh language had been used with regard to the conduct upon the period antecedent to the third reading as a time at
practice, had been carried to a very great extent, and hart
of the provisional committees and directors, but it was ad- which these resolutions should have effect. It had been stated
milted on all hands that the late railway enterprise hal been by those who were sensible that their Bills were not likely to
effect of completely deceiving the great body of the publici
by most useful, and that it was desirable for the interests of this be carried out, that theywouldnot have sufficient
—.those persons of small property who were invheattg
in shoals into these railway projects. He repeated. t
.
country that that speculation should be carried on. The rail- time to canvass the feelings of their constituents, nor could
way directors had, to the best of their power, endeavoured to they take upon themselves the responsibility of witholding
reserving these shares, which the parties either allotted to
scertain the best projects in which the money of themselves the further progress of the Bill. He would appeal to his
themselves or their friends, they also frequently chamme
off scot free themselves, and deceived those w .
ando the public could he invested, and he could not conceive Rittht Hon. Friend, whether swedes were not at present coln-
they had induced to join them. He did not know
whether it wa possible for the Legislature to check these timuwt lion.Alembers could justly cry them down, although he pelted by the sessional order of the House to go into Corn-
evils, but if s the Government would, by the Bill certainly,am admit that during the late railway mania there mittee within a limited period from the presentation of the
had been exceptionable transactions. He could assure petition ?He thought that that sessional order should be
they were about to introduce, remedy the abuses, he thought
These
.the Right 'Hon-. Baronet that he laboured under an error when amended in some degree, in order that the parties promoting
they would be accomplishing a very great advantage.
he conceived it to be his du. yto attack the practice of reserving Bills might be restrained from going into Committee. If the
things, however, would be matter for discussion when the Bill
came before them, and he should confine the few observations shares. There might have been cases in which those shares course he had suggested was adopted, it would facilitate the
he had o make to the present propesi ion of the
were reserved for the purpose of fraud, but he could assure him contention of many parties connected with Bills, would re-
Right Hon. Baronet. He had observed, with satisfaction, a that the number of applications in railway projects had been move a great difficulty, and would issue in reconciling, to
desire, on the part of the House, to give a general support to so exceedingly large that it was found necessary by the direc- some extent, the conflicting interests of the railway public.
the proposition; and, for himself, he was ready to say that he
tors to reserve the shares in the manner which they had. Out Mr. WILLIAMS observed, that amongst the numerous
concurred in the conclusion which the Right Hon. Baronet of the 500,000 applications for shares, he was sure that the Bills before the House, there were several which contem-
had come to. He thougid the course recommended by the Right Hon. Baronet would, had he been engaged in these rail- plated the formation of long lines of railway, and which were
Right Honourable Baronet was the best they possibly way undertakings, have found very great difficulty in allotting in possession of enormous capital. Weenie to understand the en-
could adopt under existing circumstance,.—(Hear.) le, shares with safety to the 40,000 that hail applied. The di. tire capital of these companies was to remain in the hands of the
did not mean to say, however, that it was not open to rectors had experienced the greatest difficulty in the proper directors, to be disposed of at their will and caprice? The persons
objection and inconvenience, but in the present stale of things exercise of their duties. He could assure the Right Hon. who had requested him to brine this question before the
,it was impossibe to take a step which would not entail incon- Baronet that the greatest schemes had been used for the pur- House were of opinion, that the *lass of Bills which comprised
veniences of a dangerous nat ore upon some pat ties. All the pose of deceiving the provisional committees. Forged names large undertakings might be dealt with in rather a more sum-
other suggestions he had heard spoken of were surrounded and false residences had been made use of in the applications mary manner than Bills of this description generally before the
with more objections than the recommendation of the Right for the purpose of deceiving the directors. He was perfectly House. Now, it was no very simple thing to make an applica-
Ron. Baronet ; and on the whole he thought it was the new in the affair himself, and he had not the least doubt that a tion for a Bill in the next session of Parliament. There were
best they could adopt. He must say, however, that he could very great many errors had been committed in the allotment the details of the traffic to be gone into—the surveys must be
not agree with the opinion of the Right Honourable of shares in the company with which he was connected, but he completed—the whole of the notices must be properly served,
Baronet that this was the legitimate and proper time for bring- certainly did, in his character of chairman of the provisional and time estimates must be minutely calculated and fixed on.
ing this measure forward, for he recollected a speech which
directors, reserve at least one-tenth of the warns of the com- And further, by the standing orders of the House, an entirely
Several Honourable Members of that House had found new subscription deed must be made out... With those corn-
the Right lion. Baronet himself made at the commencement Pante
of the session, which left an impression upon his mind themselves involved in this railway speculation, from a desire, panics who were compelled to wind up their affairs, by giving
that the Government considered the subject, and in common with people out of doors, to profit by it.—( Hear, power to them to enable them to come before the House at
had come to the conclusion that interference was hear, and laughter.) For his own part, he thought it was any future session of Parliament, much difficulty would be
necessary even at that time. That was the im- highly creditable for men to be concerned as directors in a re- created in the operation of the law, and many subsequent al-
spectable railway undertaking. And of this he was confident, tera'ions would be required.
pression on his mind, and he believed it was this
impression which the public generally had after reading the that these projects had had the effect of furthering the prospe- The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the object of the
sewed' itself, but more particularly the speech made at the rity of the count) y• He had no doubt that the share- resoluti -ns was merely to enable the parties connected with
same time by Lord Lincoln, and he thought it would have holders, in those companies that ought to be dissolved, railway companies to dissolve, which was a right that they at.
been better had they tsken more decided steps then, would take the earliest opport unity of availing them- pr sent were not legally entitled to. But with respect to
He thought that in questions of this kind it was the duty of the selves of the advantage held out to them by the giving them power as regarded any future application to
Government to undertake the responsibility.—( Hear, hear.) resolutions of the Right Honourable Baronet, at least Parliament, that was a purpose not at all contemplated by the
They ought not to wait until the public out of doers were in a to proceed with their original intentions. After what they Bill.
complete ferment in consequence of the uncertainty of the law. had heard, and very truly heard, of railway speculations in the Mr. WILLIAMS again urged that power had been taken
—( Hear, hear.) And he therefore could not quite &Tree course of the summer, this proposition was only making an by the managing directors to take the control of the capital
with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that he had been very appeal from Philip di unk to Philip sober, and giving them an into their own hands, and they had retained this immense
-.felicitous in introducing his measure at this particular period. opportunity of recording their opinions. He felt that there amount of money to proceed with their Bills at any future
However, as it had been proposed at last, he was prepared 'stare some objections of a smaller character, but they were session; and there were no legal means by which the share-
to give it his cordial support. There was one inconvenience doubtless considered by the framers of the Bill. He would holders could compel the managing directors to wind up. The
which would probably result from this measure—he alluded to give his support to the proposition. directors had the power of adding to their number, and conse-
the new companies which had lately been projected as Mr. F. W. BARING, who was very indistinctly heard,in quently of increasing their influence. He had, therefore,
rivals to the great independent rallweY companies already his epening remarks, said that not the slightest objection hoped that the Hen. and Learned Gentleman would take into
in existence. This measure would most probably have the could be urged to the proposition of the Right Hon. Bsrenet, his consideration the position of parties connected with projects
effect of bringing these projects to an end, and the It was in reality an appeal to the promoters of these schemes— to be carried on to a future session. They were placed in a
public would consequently be deprived of the interests it was wising them an Opportunity of reconsidering their eon- worse position than those who had Bills already before the
which they must have received had those companies dition—it "airs asking them indeed whether they were prepared. House.
succeeded as rivals to the already existing companies, He himself would gladly give his vote for the dissolution of The SOLICITOR-GENERAL observed that it was one of
and he thought that the Government should have taken that the company of which he was chairman. He, like several the especial objects of the Bill to provide for that class of
Point into their grave consideration. This, he confessed, ether railway directors, had been put to much expense and cases which had been alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman oppo•
was a very wide subject, and he would not say whether trouble, fer which they expectsd no thanks. That was the site. That power would he given to a certain number of
it was an evil or a good; but he would say that it was the duty benefit connected with these railway undertakings.--( Hear.) shareholders in the undertaking, which would render it compnl-
of the Government, in these matters, to protect the public Mr. B. DENISON confessed that he originally thought sory in them to wind up the affairs of the company.'
interests. No doubt her Majesty's Government had taken the that some steps ought to have been taken to put an end to the Mr. COLLETT was much obliged to her
Majesty's Soli-
advice of competent parties before they had ve .lured to propose mad speculations which were convulsing the country, and eitor- General for having explained various points in the reso-
the present measure, and must be better informed which were withdrawing capital from their wholsome and lotions before the House. He considered that the directors
than any Honourable Gentleman who might offer natural channels. It had the effect of locking up capital, of many of these schemes had been very ill-treated—they had
leis suggestions across the table to the Members of the Govern-. which otherwise would have been freely circulated throughout been subjected to a deal of hard work, were exposed to misrepre-
extent. At the same time he would venture to make one the country; but, however, he thought it was batter now to sentation and 'insinuations of various kinds, and yet they were
or two suggestions upon this subject ; one of those interfere than not to interfere at all, and he certainly should bound by their position to retain the original amount of the
suggestions was this—whether it would not be give his -hearty concurrence to the proposition of the Right shares which they Lath. With respect to the third reading, he
possible to propose as an alternative to the ecrieewriers. that Honourable Baronet. Some Honourable Gentlemen had corn- really thought, that before any progress was made in railway
Whey should have the p ever of expressing their wishes and opt- ~lained that the contingent expenses attending the committal Bills, that some regulation should be adopted to prevent the
mewls as to the desuablenewn or otherwise, of proceeding and second reading of the Bill would be still increased, but he further carrying on of those schemes before they arrived at
while their hills by written communication, instead of for one could not see how they could be. Parties might avail that period. He would only say, with respect to the estimates
being comp, lied t' attend at those meetings, themselves of the resolutions within ten days from the present of the construction of the lines, there was no increase what•
It was not stated when the meeting of the scripholders was to time, and if they did not meet with . sufficient en- ever in the price of the materials. There was ouly a slight
lance place, An Irish railway company might be summoned couragement they might abandon the Bill alto- increase in the price of labour, and a trifling increase in the
to meet in London. With regard to the suggestion of eether. There was another point to which he wished to call cost of conveyance. He firmly believed that contracts could
his Hon. Friend, the Member for Weymouth, to the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet, who, in the course of be performed at a lower rate during the present year, than
postpone all railway business, to avoid subjecting his speech made an allusion to a recent statement made by Mr. they could have been done duringthe last year,
the parties to any inconvenience or expense, until Brunel, as to the cost of making railways. The Hon. Member or any previous year. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by'
this Bill should be passed, he doubted whether any benefi- for Sunderland had answered that statement, but had he not, expressing a hope, that the powers of the different companies
c'sal object could be effected by such a course. The
he should have felt it to be his duty to state, that he had put might still be continued in the hands of the directors
or the
people would know the persons connected with these
purpose of winding up the undertaking.
himself in communication with parties who were in the habit
companies, and would judge whether there was any of contracting for the construction of railways, who told him The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it was the intention cf
prospect of the shareholders of the company persisting that Sir. Brunel's statement was a most extravagant and in- the Bill to enable the shareholders to bring before the directors,
:an desiring to pass the Bill; and he took it for granted that they cautious one. He Lelieved there was no doubt that a railway
in as unanimous a manner as possible, their wishes as to
would in most cases avoid passing the Bill through unnecessary could be made at very little additional cost to what it whether the Bill should be proceeded with or not. He thought
stages, if it was not their intention ultimately to proceed would have taken lately.—( Hear.) The Right Hen. Baronet, that, considering the importance of the question, there could
with it. He would not trouble the House with any further ob- in the course of his speech, referred to a letter relating to the be no objection to relieve the directors of a portion of the
nervations. He should only state that he heartily rejoiced that London and York Railway, and seemed to do so with a view responsibilities by throwing the onus on the shoulders of the
her Majesty's Government had directed their attention to this of convincing the House that the directors of the company shareholders.
inaportant subject ; and he thought that their proposed pro- were disposed to break up the company. Mr. O'CONNELL was grieved to confess that the Right
.ceedings would give satisfaction to the country. Sir ROBERT PEEL—No, no. Hon. Baronet had made out a complete ease for this House.
eWin HUDSON said that he fully agreed with her Ma_ Mr. 13ECKET T DENISON said he knew instances in What was the effect of these resolutions? They raised a numer-
esto Government in the time which they had chosen for thi' which competing companies were buying up shares of the ous array of other questions, and would lead to no end of corn.
meant re, for the present time was almost the only one in which rival lines, for the purpose of obtaining a majority in the plieated litigation. He did not know a worse tribunal to dig-
they could act effectually in this matter. He believed that if meetings proposed to be held under the provisions of the pros cuss a question of this nature than a House of Commons.
the Gov ernment had brought forward this measure at an posed Act• it was in the case of the London and York Rail- They diminished a number of railway schemes, but then
earlier period of the session, it would not have met way. The Eastern Counties Company, of which the Hon. the number of Bills was increased. They should have
with the public support which it would meet with on this Member for Sheffield was one of the directors, were donee so something like a railway at home. They ought to have a rail-
occasion. The measure would be placed on a sound, solid at the present moment; and he thought that was conduct way judge, and to him should be committed the care of these
basis, for parties would seriously consider the position in which which one company should not pursue towards another. For matters. Let it not be considered that the appointment of
they had placed themselves, and the consequence was that by eis own part he would not do so; he did not possess much in- such a tribunal would be extraordinary. They had separate
the meetings that would take place under this measure 'crest in that railway—he held but twenty shares in it—he judges in different departments of law. There were ecclesi-
little trouble would be given to Parliament to decide on these supported it upon public grounds, and with adesire to obtain astical judges, judges in the civil courts—and there were even
cues. He did not deny that during a short time there had the best mode of communication between London and York ; registration judges—then why not a railway judge and a rail-
been an excitement in the railway world, and it had arisen from lie had no fear as to the ultimate success of that line, way court? The Hon. Solicitor-General had told the House
the successful progress of existing companies. Every person in spite of all that opposition.—( Hear, hear.) He thought distinctly that the power of dissolution was compulsory. Now
who had considered the subject former what would be the the proposed Bill would give to competing lines advantages how was it to be made compulsory? An Act of Parliament
effect of the success of the present companies, and that others which might be unfairly used against rival companies, and could not be considered compulsory in questions of this kind,
would attempt the like success, at. the time when the parties enable them to burke their competitors. Existing companies because the utmost they could do would be to levy a fine, and
'who had been toiling in the field for a long time began to reap would have a very decided advantage over those who were it would be difficult to enforce those fines. They ought, then,
the harvest of their endeavours. He had not been unfaithful mere promoters of lines, and he considered that no person to have a railway court and a railway judge. Take from the
to the public on that occasion. He held in his hand a long seould he allowed to vote at these meetings who was not a bar one of those gentlemen who by their attainments and
Falser, in which he had taken the trouble of collecting the holder of scrip on the 4th of April last, which was the time their experience are entitled to the confidence of the public,
numerous observations made by him at meetings which he had when the first notice was given of their intentions. The and make him a railway judge. It might be said that the ne-
attended, and in which he bad cautioned them against these House was aware that when a motion was on the paper which cessity for such a judge might not exist for more than
wild speculations and their results.--( Hear, hear.) It was of was not agreeable to parties, those opposing it refused to come two or three years. Well, then, the expense of the experi-
no use ; and had her Majesty's Government interfered at into the House in order that there might be an adjournment. ment would be diminished. The confidence which would
that time, it would have been said they were interfering with This would be precisely the mode adopted by those opposing result from the present state of the administration of railway
measures for the benefit of the country. It would have been a line or wishing for its dissolution. If he would permit the affairs would be, that one would apply to one court, and
of no use to tell them that their works should not commence meeting to consist of oneefifth of the whole shareholders in another go to another tribunal, so that the litigation on these
until they had got certain sums of money to execute them, the first instance, instead of three-fifths of the amount as pro- matters would be greatly extended and greatly amplified. He
Had her Majesty's Government interfere then, he was satisfied posed, . it. would' be a simpler arrangement, and collect would eubmit. to the consideration of the Government whether
that they would not have interfered successfully, a.nd. it was better the opinions of the shareholders much more effectively, these difficulties would not be obviated if such a court as he
to allow it to rouse until astaesnawtiaoanidof
i,public opinion occurred. Parliament,, if it could set its face against this undue specula- had suggested was appointed. The thing itself was a novelty.
The measures now proposed
He owned that there was great advantagepartae i a salutaryl effect, lion, it ought to do so. He was applied to repeatedly to be- Those railways destroyed the whole common law with respect
aaneratai railway comma-
,comed a provisionall. committee-man, but he invariably refused to public ways. The public ways were understood to be the
nication, and that it was of essential im he
icountry,
toaihsoaso. titing the whole course of the autumn when the smroperty of the public, but since the railways came into opera-
but an excess of speculation might be injurious There maniath prevailed to its greatest. extent, he actually tion there was no such thing as the public claim being ring-
a statement made in that House, on the authority if trembled at
person from whom, however eminent or distinguished he i*
haits
.e extent. of this. speculation, and on account of nised. He therefore suggested the propriety of having these
be., he (Mr. Hudson) felt bnund, in Justice to Parliament might conseque.neee, and he advised his friends to abstain from matters investigated by a railway judge.
ment and speculating in railways,
The statement w
After a few words from Mr. PACKE,
to the country, to differ. u, that the expense The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there Mr. MILNER GIBSON wished to ask a question of the
he n ' e did seemed so general a con rut r in the
with that statement, and thought that nothing the Gov t. ence - General. He wanted to know whether, if a
not agree
ernment, that it would be unnecessary for •
than to allow such an opinion to go forth to dress the House him to ad- shareholder who had purchased scrip in the market should
could be worse
He would refer to a paper which he at any length with respect to them •
, attend a meeting, and sign a petition, his position would be
the country. reference to that matt
had in but as certain • had
objectionsbeen taken as to the courseof
his Pocket, which here some matter. the Government, he should make one or two
fora series of
t observations in visions as those to which the original allottee was liable?
He had been connected with railways
him
of years, and reply to them. It had been, in the first i
of
capital entrusted to
had the largest amount ssne c , stated that The answer of the Solicitor-General did not reach the
ashamed of such a might have interfered at an earlier period with
Gallery.
individual in the country, but he would be . respect to those projects, and more directly than
inform, theyaf had now Mr. BARKER wished to know whether the scrip-
position if he declined to come forward and
suchthis subject. Witt
,iiicie*Every one who had watched the tion as he could supply in reference to
.of . j
10/ ration in. railways, must be aware that rogrew the s.pecu- holders who signed the requisition that a project should be
respect to the Midland Company, the price iron was . was carried was in •
were 7s. the cum • the extent to which it carried through did not
itself pregnant with considerable danger •
to ginal shareholders?
place themselves in the position of (wi-
per tun at the time of its construction. The sleepers
The non in commercial temper of the country ; and lac d• a piece and land, and everything else in proportion.
couldtawich he was, he certainly
did usepall then i the situ- The SOLICITOR- GENERAL said that the point was the other day he bought iron at 91. the ton, and sleepers from 4s._discourage all those on whom he thou means he subject of his most anxious consideration; and he could not
were not influence front embarking• ght he had any answer it at resent.
to ss. Land also was cheaper, and prices in general . in those speculations, or •' g BE .
to their countenan • Lord G. NTINCK said that he did not desire to dis
ao excessive as in 1841. He had a few further observations se to them ; but it appeared to him: girl'''.
reach
would to an extent which that it courage those railway
speculations which were founded on a
snake. He was quite sure that the directors of every company Parliament could not ssibl i d •
foresee. It is
would give an opportunity to the shareholders of considering true they might, by the adoption of arbitrary sod and rational basis, but he was greatly rejoiced to see the
the course iroper to pursue under the circumstances, With measures,
t ahave materially reduced this speculation, by onlyl thisirtro introduction of measures tending to repress the excess of
respect to one railway with which he was connected, and he lowin h introduction of Bills required by the wats otatie Sun
sortti of speculation. His Hon. Friend the Member for
was sure that many others would be similarly circumstanced, country ; _ but then the difficulty of selecting those which should her Majesty's
.hcla expressed his approbation of the conduct of
every 501. share rose to the value of 3001., owing to the ex. beheprodctffieeidaeldt wifthhend those which should be withdrawn. Bentinck) could Government in
riniwthitshamtatter,ll34 he (Lord George
ortions of a few individuals, and himself among th.e numbe!., 1 e
(tAoir.t
Aisfawrir
rfioreseen by the Hon. Member for duct. The Right Hon. Gentlemana, p stre aaoana
Chancellor
l 1 their e ior
of the
strongly supported it He had great pleasure in supreme - Nlanchester
drawal of all competing lineshiliPs),_who suggested the with. Exchequer had drawn the distinction between the people drunk
ing the resolutions.
with
ords on a attended enormous difficulties, on
from Parliament ; but that was and the people sober; but he (Lord G. Bentinck) begged to
Mr. MARK PHILIPS begged to say a few w account of the selection ask whether her Majesty's Government had not had a great
and the arbitrary nature of the
• that involved su much public interest. He could course. This opinion was share in making the people drunk on railway speculation ?Up
d b the Hon.
question
had taken place be- also expresse y Member for Sunderland (Mr to the
say it was his wish, as some interference
- ' he Hudson) which was no doubt in the recollection ofthe * 1.. year 1844 the excess of railway speculation was checked
fore now this subject. At an early period of the session, , , House, .3, the necessity that
existed of making a deposit of 10 per cent
upon
course which they thought it advisable to pursue, was on the
' motion to the House for taking the The only
_ . shares. That was a wholesome restriction on wild
was inclined to submit a
• dto cool a little, and that there should s
wouldofto allow the public min peculation, and had the effect of preventing bubble
matter into consideration. He thought the House
dof the don f th -
the
pu lc min ger o here ape- schemes In the
year 1844 her Majesty's Government reduced
come to a resolution of not taking any lines of railway this culatlons.
That,
of these s eculations and the responsibility and that reduction 10 per cent, per share to 5 per cent.,
session which were of a competing character. That was his saw the danger
had,p the delay in bringing, for- lotions in on tended very much to encourage wild speeu-
view of the case ; but he was told, that if he were to bring it. attached to them.
They
by
nee of the Hon. Stem- money market railway matters. But this was not all. Whilst the
forward, he would most undoubtedly fail. He was certain that ward this motion, gained the concurrence
forward h 'I was easy in the year 1845, those speculations had broughtsue on tai ways rose to a still greater • '
much capital had been absorbed in railway speculation which her for Sunderland. which, if they_
It was sid rule at a Board, at the head height. It was an established
should have been laid out in manufacturing districts. He was of a Bill before now, they would not have gained.
for this ful understanding, and a of which sat a nobleman of power-
opinion that the development of the railway principle was that they had done wrong by not having legislated
saved Lord Dalhousie, the Chaerigarnfectf man of business—he meant
of great public benefit.; and those who had studied before such Bills as these went into Committee, and
courage the number of competingo the. Board of Trade—to dis-
thatbeen done, lines already in the market.
principle were persons who would have reflected honour such parties expense. But this could not have
Government did not
in the ca • 'Tying of any great mercantile principle —4 Hear, There had been a Bill progressing
the Trade, but on the contrary. The Right back the Board of
hear.) They had studied * s ' If the assent was given to Hon. Gentleman at
the system, and the' had found a effected the whole uestion. -
the Government stated
beneficial result,
constituency, there the head of
that House, that
and they had conferred large
a amount of third reading of the
good on their country, et was important to see that too much would be no further interposition between. .
and most direct railway communication.
capital was not directed from the legitimate have the shortest
actions of the country ; and while commercial trans- thebehind him had said that a check
Bill. His Hon. Friend .
these What was this but an encouragement to this sort of speculation,
with he hoped the proposed should he put upon those who had purchased scrip on
ion to the old exist-
and an inducement to set up lines in opposition course would not interfere
the full and fair development inchoate railways, because if that was not allowed, those great .
of
It was in that way that a great part of
exist-
of the railway principle, which he looked
lines railway .
upon as one of the raelway companies, whose interests might be furthered ing.
tion originated. The Right Hon. Gentle-
evils blessings of the country, he trusted
greatest
the railway specula resulting from undue speculation. it would check the by the dissolution of several of the present railway pro-
with increasing these railway schemes in
On these grounds, he jects, might, before the proposed meetings were called, purchase man was not content .
that it not to be endured
gave his most cordial support to the resolutions
he also stated
Manchester, Liverpool, and Birmingham
the resolutions proposed by the Right Hon. impression that enabling them to vote for their dissolution, and thus removing that such towns as
miles round. When the
Baronet were not rival companies out of their way ; but his Hon. Friend should should have to send ten or twelve
his own. He (Mr. Newdigate) however concurred i
in this way, no had fallen from the Hon. Member for Manchesterin what recollect, that it was impossible to impose such a check, because Hon. Gentleman encouraged these schemes
. ,
respecting they could not ascertain at what period those scrips were issued person could be surprised that the public entered into these
the evils of speculation. The Right Hon. Ba'ronet
to him to have trusted too much to the operatior of his because of the infinite rapidity with which they passed hands, speculations, but not only did he encourage them in this way,
nia of 1844 to check this speculation. It had h's
He was satisfied that the present proposal would have the effect the Right Hon. Gentleman consented to be the hero of the
doubt with a heavy hand in interfering with s
etuiatioperated of more effectually' preventing tricks being practised than under silver trowel ank the mahogany wheelbarrow.—(Loud laugh-
nobut that had not been sufficient, for it appeared a:3.th tkne the present law. He wished not to imp. ach the privileges ter.) So much was the support of these speculations attributed
requirements of deposits they had given scrip a charalcter which these several members possessed; but he at the same to the Hon. Gentleman, that in the town of Burton, in the
which did not belong to other kinds of commercial paper. hme must remind the House of the peculiar position in which neighbourhood of Tamworth, there were no less than eleven
tad been made to assume the character of money, and ex- athesel members were placed. As, for instance, in the case of competing railway schemes got up by enterprising specula-
bad
empleyed in that capacity. He could see no due , waerrg:
to snake
.it was very evident that they possessed 1 tors —(Laughren.)
means of limitiug railway speculation, unless all shares issued ceu'ying u th:iar shares intereie in the smaller companies, by ; Mr. CARDWELL said that he would be excused for not
were registered, ,
and to afford the means of access to the book* suchbuying up
' ares, and against such reports he had no ' feeling with the Noble Lord ins the allusions which he had just
complaints to make. Yet while sayine thus m h Is e lar el
d ' fact, to make • •
e uc ,ee eee I made, but as one observation he had made partook very g y
in which they wereregsseere —in a similar measure lievcd that the resolution was noetuffi i t
for the registration of scrip as had been done with respect to for it was well known that the shares en remedy for the evil; of matter of fact, he (Mr. Cardwell) would take the liberty of
the money weekly issued by bankers, fur it was evident that pidity, almost with incredible raide ChanliTed bands with ra- stating his opinions, with regard to the important statement
Scrip partook of the nature of money, and ought to be sub- the danger that was to be apprehended, aand thaetriceoknsequeeely with e hick the Noble Lord had commenced his speech. The
jested to a sismiler provision. so much had been said, was to be provided a ' gainst. ,of which Noble Lord said thot the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
Mr. WARD agreed with his Hon. Friend (Mr. Mark Mr. GISBORNE would only detain the House but a spoken of the people drunk and the people sober, and that if
Y the people were drunk, her 111&esty's Government had
Philips) that no speeal,ation like that with respect to railways sheet time, and, in doing so, he should b t Yer'• .eg C) refer to his made them drunk bm „r the alteration which had taken place in
had existed in i•L'lli city Hon. Friend th
Fioree the South :,ea bubble and the ' e Slumber for Manchester. and the Right Hon therate •
Alississi n scheme.- tie also agreed with him that it had ! the Chancellor of the Exchequer. In doing so, he must ; ment
pder cent, with regard to the deposits. If the Clovern-
divertedPicapital from' its nroper chat-we:a. Persons of ' that the course which the Government had prescribed was thesewmai
La the people drunk, and caused their speculations in
mall means- entered into this specelation to tin alecioet ' contrary to the object which the Bill was intended to attain. in the yeara?rBs4by4l.haat circumstance, he would add that it was
and rf heir ()elect evidently was to carry a restraining Bill ; hut#B44 that trade was not in a good condition, and
incalculable extent, re eardlees of the consecences,
by 1 that the money et was not fieterishine. In the year 1844
wo. . this measure it woeld seem that, under the present state of the also matters began
without any previous in hf Id I the ' retry as to t e east i ity o e. to mend and speculations' began to
such a measure was impcssi/ele. He wished that the 1 increase. If her Al • '* ' • railway
'
jests in which they hazardedg their capital—no one iriquired law, , . . ajesty s Government caused this increase,
where a '1 h 'whether it was Right Hon. riarotiet: the First Lord of the Treasury, 470;:ld.1 it was because th '
rat way went to—(Laughter)—or
required in the district throughwhich it act upon the principle of
was pro- the Chancellor of the Exchequer; more easy this state f the ' 4and,
• P money mar et, that improved

state was the eatiae of the evil complained of. The statement
was not his (11r. Cardwell's) but the Noble Lord's, who drew
his own deductions from his statement, and he (Mr. Card-
well) now defied the Noble Lard to deny the correctness of his
inference. He did not think that the Noble Lord would
deny that in September and October last the railway
mania or intoxication was at its height, and the rule then in
force was, that previous to the presenting
of any petition for a
railway, the sum of one-tenth per cent. on the money to be
subscribed should be deposited in the Court of Chancery. If
the intoxication contintnal at its height, with the necessary
deposit of 10 per cent., how could the absence of 10 per cent.
have caused it, and therefore how could the Government have
given rise to this peculation?s
Mr. HODGSON did not agree with the opinion of the Hon.
Gentleman who had ju't spoken. airier; the period of de-
pression which preceded the ye-a• 1844 it was difficult to obtain
money to promote these railways, and the deposit of 10 per
cent. was enforced ; but in the year 1844, when trade was good
and money became plentiful—at the very period when it would
be necessary to continue the restriction—Mr. Gladstone re-
duced the deposit to 5 per cent. When, however, during the
summer, speculation rose to a great height again, the 10 per
cent. was forced to be re-introduced.
Mr. T. S. D UNCONI BE said that be thought
.that Govern-
ment was not most to blame with reference to this question.
He did not think the Government responsible for the specula-
tion in August last, and before he sat down he should be able
to prove that the mania was produced by persons not connected
with her Majesty's Government; but he wished he could say
that they were equally unconnected with the Houses of Par-
liament.—(Laughter.) All the blame should attach itself to
Parliament for not coming forward sooner during the present
session to tell the nation what was to be done. At Christmas
last all the world was asking what would Parliament do with
the Bills that were for their consideration ? They had now
been sitting three months, and were floundering as to what
they should be about. He had just produced a plan for ascer-
taining the opinions of the present script orders of companies.
The Right Hen. Baronet, in his statement that evening said,
that circumstances had changed since the introduction of th eso
projects, but the Right Hon. Baronet must know very little
on the subject if he supposed that the parties now holding scrip
were the original parties who embarked in November last.
He knew it was a fact—and it did look suspicious—that many
of the original parties were members of the Stock Ex-
change ; and he felt that the House was not
going far enough. The Right Hon. Baronet read a letter to
the House, which he stated had shocked him terribly. An
Hon. Member had remarked that it showed the innocence of
the Right Hon. Baronet in being shocked at that letter. The
document was in reference to the practice of rigging the mar-
ket, and that system was known to every man, woman, and
child last Christmas. If the Government was so shocked by
that letter, what were they about to do? Were they going to
send them to the Committees up s'airs ? Were Hon. Members
to wade through all this filth and dirt described by the Right
Hon. Baronet? He (Mr. Duncombe) should propose some
resolution to the House, which would push this ques-
tion to the bottom. It would decide what requi-
sites these companies must have, and the bond fide
sincerity of these enterprises. No person could object to the
resolutions he was about to propose if their project was bond
fide—if it was for the public good, and not for speculative pur-
poses. He should propose a preliminary inquiry on the part
of the Committee to which it might be sent, according to this
resolution. That Committee, before going into the merits of
the Bill, should institute an inquiry as to how, and by whom,
the enterprise had been got up. No company that was a real
and well got up project could object to it, while all bubble
schemes would dissolve into air. He had been told that even-
ing that the companies did not care one straw for the resolutions
proposed to the House, and that the only resolutions they were
afraid of were the resolutions he was about to propose.
What he should propose was, that it be an instruction to the
Committees on each Private Bill, before proceeding to the
merits of such Bill, to have produced before them a copy of the
registration and the names of the promoters, as registered.
Under the regulation as it formerly stood, any man might
register a company by himself for a small sum, and that was
actually done in October last. The House would find that
one-half of these things were registered by some surveyor or
solicitor. He should also wish that inquiries were made as to
the directors, solicitors, &c., for no gentleman could object to
have his name brought before the Committee. He should
also propose the amount of capital, the number of shares,
the names and residences and subscriptions of the original
allottees. They should also know the amount of shares re-
tained by provisional committee men—(Hear, hear)—and no
person could, as an honest man, object to that He held in his
hand a provisional committee advertisement of November last.
An advertisement of such a length ought to command all the
influence of the whole country—every sort of name should be
there—Honourables, Right Hononrables. It was an advertise-
ment of the Direct Manchester, and Northern Railway. He
had been looking for the Bill amongst tte Committees, but
could not find it. There were no less than 172 provisional com-
mittee-men on it, arid he should like to see how many shares
they had received, and how many they had paid upon. It would
be very unsatisfactory to know that out of the 172 gentlemen
not 200 shares had been taken in all. There were F.R.S.,
law, physic, and divinity, held out as decoys to the public. He
was curious to know how much had been paid on shares, and
still more curious to know what had been received by Hon.
Members to allow their names to be inserted as provisional
committee-men. He had received several, and he held the
prospectus of one in his hand. A letter accompanied it, pro-
mising to bear him harmless from all liabilities. He would
ask the Solicitor-General whether that was a good guarantee ?
—( Laughter.) The public considered, when they saw these
provisional committe-men published to the world, that
they participated in the expense and the project.
He held in hand another list, in which he found the names of
102 clergymen. What would be the consequence if the pa-
rishioners of those gentlemen should see their names on that
provisional committee? There were Deacons, Arch-
Deacons, Right Reverends, Reverends, and Vicars giving
their spiritual sanction to the project.—( Loud laughter. )
Under such circumstances how could the public
and their parishioners be blamed for joining the project?
It was right that they should know the number of the shares
retained by the provisional committees, and the amount paid
up on them. Also the number of shares now held. That was
one object which lie sought to obtain. When the shareholders
now sought for information respecting the funds of the com-
pany, or the mode of application, it was almost impossible
to obtain it ; but, by the resolutions he was
about to submit, they would be obliged to furnish to the Com-
mittees who sat on their Bills all these important particulars.
The resolution he proposed on this point he was persuaded
would operate in a most beneficial manner. The locking up of
fifteen millions of capital, with no guarantee whatever that
the schemes proposed were not bubble speculations, was a most
improper state of things. And what was the process by
which these railway companies sought to get up the amount
of deposit necessary for compliance with the standing
orders? One or two other directors made application to some
banker for assistance, and if he was satisfied that the liabilities
of the company did not exceed the depesits paid, then he ad-
vanced the balance to comp), to the sum requisite for the stand-
ing orders, and the amount was placed in the hands of the Ac-
countant-General. If the Bill was rejected, the sum so ad-
vanced was immediately paid back to the party who advanced
It ; if the Bill was carried, the same was done; while the
shareholder, who had been led to believe that a sufficient
deposit hail been paid up to meet the standing orders, found
out the mistake by the calls that were immediately made to
make up the deficiency.
The greatest and merest bubble
might go before Parliament under this mode of raising the 10
per cent. deposits, in order to comply with the
standing orders of the House of Lords. Another
resolution he meant to propose called upon the projectors of
those companies who went b, fore Committees of that House
to give an explanation, not only of the amount of deposit paid
up, but also of the spurce from whence they intended to raise
the 5 per cent. additional to meet the House of Lords. He
hoped these resolutions, which he would hereafter submit,
would meet the support of the Howe, and that they would be
acceded to, in addition to those proposed by her Majesty's
Government. If they were passed, it would save a great amount
of trouble, and do much to relieve the evils that at present
existed.—( Hear, hear.) They would not do right unless
they probed to the bottom all these expenses, and it was a
course of proceeding to which he thought no honest man
could object.— ( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member concluded
by reading the following resolutions :
" That it be an instruction to the Committee on every
private Bill, originated in this House, relating to any railway,
before proceeding with the merits of such Bill, to require to
be produced before them, and verified by the promoters without
the appearance of counsel,
" A copy of the original return made for the purposes of
provisional registration with the names of the promoters as
then registered.
The names, residences, and descriptions of the present and
past provisional directors, treasurers, solicitors, secretary, and
other officer, if any.
" The present and proposed amount of the capital of the
company.

out the principle of protection, while on other questions they
professed themselves against all such inteference with the ap-
plication of capital or the employment of labour.—(Hear,
hear.) Every Member in that House. unless he is a holder of
railway shares, feels the necessity of protection here. Her
Majesty's Government on this question, however, seemed to
have no settled opinion. In two years, they had twice changed
the qualification on Railway Bills, showing that they enter-
tained no definite opinion as to the course which should be
taken. He quite agreed with the Hon. Member for Finsbury
in the expression of opinion which he had made, and which was
generally entertained in the country, that the deposit of 51,
per cent., or double that amount, in compliance with the
mtsGht aeee deeqeinrudeagmii
qualification.
rnewdat
aet
Irdosee,:i
ne
ga
to
The
equallynht
nde e
qualificatione uncertainty,
t thisn e ffi s et as tcei
ao
nuedsf
made.
having
h Hn
ego
swg,
ht
wt
havinglei
itectnel e hm aoednettrehh changede
ago was changed to what was considered one more stringent,
and now they sought to revert back to the former. This proved
that the Government was totally inefficient, and was c hargable
with the loss and ruin which had occurred.—( Hear, hear. )
His Noble Friend (Lord G. Bentinck) had referred to the
circuin,tances of the Right Hon. Baronet raising the first sod
of the Trent Valley Railway. That took place only in last
October, at the very time that the railway mania was at its
height.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") What Minister
did so? The Chief Minister of the Crown himself—a
great Finance Minister was the party who did so at the time
which his Hon. Friend the Secretary of the Treasury described
as the height of the railway mania. In doing so, that the
Right Hon. Baronet, in investing himself with the railway
paraphernalia, and giving effect to the occasion on which he
made his appearance, gave an impetus to speculation no one
could deny. He (Mr. Disraeli) had it in his power to give
evidence of the effect of that performance, as be had papers in
his possession which, as he had not intended to allude to the
subject that night, he had not brought with him. The
Honourable Member for Finsbury may have seen the
same results of the Trent Valley performance. He
(Mr. Disraeli) had in his possession railway pro-
spectuses containing extracts from the speech of the
Prime Alinisier delivered on that occasion.—( Hear, hear. )
At the height of the mania they had thus the First Minister of
the Crown giving an impetus—an unnatural impetus to the rail-
way speculations.--( Hear, hear.) He remembered words
spoken by the Right Hon. Baronet—he would not quote Han-
sard, for that was not admissible now, but his memory would
serve him—in which he said, that the people of Manchester or
Liverpool would not submit to be carried round ten or twelve
miles about by existing lines, but that they would have direct
ones. This was in March, 1845, and in October, 1845, they
found the Right Hon. Baronet raising the first sod of the Trent
Valley Railway.—( Hear, hear.) He could not acquit the
Right Hon. Baronet of fostering and encouraging the railway
mania; neither the House nor the country could do so. —(Hear,
hear.) They (the protectionists) were never allowed to refer
to the prosperity of the country as arising from good harvests;
the Ministers took credit to themselves for the fact. Who so
ready as the First Lord of the Treasury or the Secretary for the
Home Department to take credit for the diminution of distress
and national adversity? But while he (Mr. Disraeli) was ready
to give the Government credit for all they had done, they did
at the same time suppose that the harvests had something to
do with that prosperity ; and that when money was plentiful
and the country flourishing it was not necessary to refer it all
to a Ministry. The present appears to be the catastrophe of a
great bubble.—( Great cheers.) Although they had greater
experience than any country in Europe ; although their moral
tone would stand a favourable comparison with any other na-
tion, it was their degrading fate periodically to manifest an
inordinate desire for wealth, flying with that object into any
mad speculation, however much it might produce national in-
jury, entail private ruin, end lead to public disgrace.—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear.") It was the duty of the Government
to gua
publictonefortunes.—(Hear, t
ofu then es.
—p public
rm, mind,
hear.) and B toet
twatch
systemand
which
direct
everything to take care of itself, to follow its own
course, whatever might be the effect on the condition of the
trhhdaed the
hitherto gained such favour, that of leaving
people or the interests of the country—this system was the
fashionable system of political economy, which, however
lauded, in his opinion led only to ruin and degradation.—(Hear,
hear.) However, after what had been said on other questions
in reference to this principle, he asked them how they could,
in agreement with it, come forward and ask for that interfer-
ence with the investment and application of capital and labour
which the adoption of the resolutions implied? Why depart
from that course which had been so much lauded in re'erence
to other questions? So long as the people were employed—so
lone as they were employed by these railways—by the Trent
Valley railway and others of its class—so long as the people
were so employed, the Ministry expected that they would sym-
pathise with the philanthropic Government.—( Cheers.) But
now the thing was found out 1 The senators we re discovered
to be stags—(Laughter and cheers)—and the people were
looking up the losses they had sacrificed at the shrine of
philosophy. They were beginning to find out that
it was all humbug.—( Laughter.) They were now
discovering that after all they must fall back on the old system.
--(Cheers.) Honourable Members had often charged the
party with which he was connected with unnecessarily delay-
ing the business of the country.—(Cheers.) Honourable
Members then seemed to forget the saying of one of the
greatest men of modern times—the saying of Frederiek the
Great, " That he who gained time, gained everything." They
had opposed the measures of the Government, because they did
not consider that they were advantageous to the country.
They had opposed the Right Hon. Baronet's measures—he
who cut the first sod of the Trent Valley Railway.—( Cheers
and laughter.) They opposed a minister who knew that he
had a great opportunity of doing his country good, and who
neglected it. But now they had to discuss this question in
sober sadness—( Hear)—and when they calculated what the
resources of the country were, when they contemplated its in-
creasing population, and the inadequate means of employment
provided for them, the Government ought to be forced to look
to its essential resources; to legislate on comprehensive and
practical principles, instead of visionary theories, which had in
too many instances assimilated to the practice of the com-
panies under their consideration.
Mr. WARD explained.
Mr. BRIGHT wished to trouble the House with one or two
observations, after the remarks which haa been made by the
Hon. Member for Shrewsbury. He had, in the whole of his
speech, endeavoured to show that the Government were incon-
sistent in bringing in these resolutions, and in their general
police with regard to this suLject. But he (Mr. Bright) con-
sidered that the arguments of the Hon. Member were altoge-
ther founded upon error. If he understood the resolutions
aright, they were not proposed for the purpose of interfering
with vested capital, but to enable parties to withdraw from
proceedings which would be unprofitable to themselves and
disastrous to the country.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
and the Hon. Member who had last spoken bad, he thought,
adopted an ingenious course—more particularly ingenious as
they were each recognised as the head of a great and patriotic
party.—(Cheers.) They used to be loud in praises of the
Ministry, and it was only lately that they had withdrawn their
support. It was only since Ministers had brought in their
measure for the abolition of the corn-laws that they had found
out that they were unworthy of confidence.—(Cries of
" Hear, hear.') Now, he believed that the real cause of
the speculation in railways was that they had had
many years of depression, which had been followed by years of
prosperity, and they were adopting the old adage of making
hay while the sun shone. They wished to make in one year
the profits that ought to have extended over three. Ile had
every confidence that this measure would produce a steadiness
in the money market to which they had for some time been un •
accustomed. He believed that these fluctuations were bad, and
the Government had therefore reason to endeavour to put an
end to them. If he ( Mr. Bright) recollected aright, when he
first came to that House, the Noble Lord, the Member for
Lynn, only sat in his seat for the purpose of observing the
progress of a Bill introduced to defend certain parties who
were engaged in a mad speculation, dangerous in the extreme,
and contrary to the letter of the law.—(Cheers, and a laugh.)
He considered, therefore, that the Noble Lord was not the
man to set himself up as an authority on any matter connected
with speculation or gambling.
Mr. DUNCOMBE, in answer to an observation from Sir
George Clerk, said he would be exceedingly sorry to admit any
unjust details in any statement of the affairs of a company; all
he required was that there should be laid before the Committee
an estimate, stating the amount of money in hand. and the
liabilities of the company, which every company ought to be
aware of. Suppose the case of a shareholder; before he will enter
into an engagement, he will naturally say to the committee
of management, what money have you in hand? Why, we
have so much, will be the answer. Well, then, his next ques-
tion would be, what are the liabilities of the company ?
Surely the committee should be able to give some estimate of
their amount, and be able to say what persons were those who
had claims upon them.
Mr. HODGSON said he should vote against the resolution,
as he was quite positive that the company would be utterly un-
able to give anything like an accurate estimate, and an inac-
curate might lead to more evils than none at all.
Mr. HUDSON said that, from his experience, he could
state that it would be impossible for any company to give an
estimate of their liabilities ; nor did he think such an estimate
tcnFvtwihhoiawinlhemenmlould tend to any uosful purpose. How could it be possible
to tell the amount of a solicitor's or engineer's bill ? The only
thing which could be given would be the amount of money
paid and actually receivel.—( Hear.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE said he would adopt the suggestion of
the Hon. Member. and alter the resolution to a statement of
the money in hand, and a statement of the liabilities incurred.
Mr. W. R. COLLETT observed that expenses were two-
' fold those incurred, and those prospective ; and an adjourn-
ment of the case might increase the latter must materially.
Colonel SIBTHORP said be would enter his pretest against
the Government doing that at the eleventh hour which they
should have done at the first.
AAoiascwetfhrseut. esprrwiroooha:r.
provisional
tß:eoiwt
counties
nhnehad
idlwordsesaiCOLLETTn,lnuwo committeemenfoi rudi ohenom
b. So
tuisi
subscribed
bGdhts
aht.hchtareeCsivyhvbteLaeewhdrEdt,eeoaßrwelabedeseynoa,
tion was most inquisitorial ; and after the many sufferings
h
thought it somewhat unjust.—( Hear, hear.)osdniaydwenteteheirtxehpd
experienced,
rteihei etnhcreeerds
the
_
dsla ins nont onoianotel
hopeme
oint tfiedoetrfnmeheeenno,
benefiting
andfittasihnegi r
nmaatn
fellowyt h oe
mraf themesenl
men. The
themselves,
comeahhdaet Ht
bad to hold them up now to the world as parties unwohrtechirtyifeoosrf
owthheetrhberu,t
afterhonest
thme motives, but
shff sufferings
npgusti t
provisionalt t heHon.
committee-menCe nman
had encountered, it was fair to publish their names in th• man-
ner proposed by this resolution.—( Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER apprehended
that the Hon. Member for Finsbury did not require the names,
but only the amounts subscribed collectively by the provisional
committee.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said that was all he wanted.
euncea.ttteolleAdwaileetrii
forwarded,nitsob,dvw
The resolution was then agreed to, as was also No. 9.
On No. 10 being proposed.
ask A
After
r a establishedshort
discussion
objectionable disclose their
words
were
struck
Mr. WARBURTON was understood to object to the words
"and of the liabilities" on the ground that it was not right to
::..ndwtAheßrnesuolßuTti resolution, as assaidamended,
this
resoalgurteioedn
in its
ld
fliandnHoecetfit
jeraanDpwytii)sinlftyuoghntNottithsitiheseiaenpi
erißoxhtivpahl Bills promoted
ndilosH,
enr
tosooomnof.of
enabletttehGh deeemi bnr yt
el
toeexhst
nuietstamat established
to
igwso
Aai
carry
dcaeqtriuorr companies,fepouraitrg
thihat e..
present form
On No. 10 being proposed,
for they raid no deposits at all, but merely certified that they
Many companies we-e seeking
proposed undertaking.
for powers to construct works in
surplus
capital.
Mr. RICARDO remarked that there were many companies
not in so fortunate a position as to have surplus capital, and in
such a ease as that it would he desirable to know how the funds
were rain. d.
lhawoncaueocAdAtunol:

"The number of shares, and the amount of each share.
" The cumber of shares actually allotted, with the names,
residences, and descriptions of the original allottees, and the
number of shares allotted to each.
" The amount of subscriptions paid up by such original
allottees.
" The amount of shares retained by or for the provisional
committee.
'• The amount of subscriptions actually paid up by such pro-
visional committee, and the number of shares now held by
them.

" The original subscribers' agreement, signed by the
allottees.
" A statement of the amount of money in hand, and of the
liabilities of the proposed company, together with an abstract
of all receipts and expenditure up to the presentation of the
petition for the Bill.

" A statement of the source whence the deposit was paid to
the Accountant-General, whether out of the deposits, or by
loan.

" A statement of the source whence the additional 51. per cent.
required to be paid by the other House of Parliament will be
paid or rai'ed.
" And that, in case the said Committee shall find that the
particulars, or any of them, are not furnished, or shall be of
opinion that the said intended railway was not origically pro-
posed, or has not been carried on bona fide, or from any
Other cause is not likely to be executed if the Bill be passed,
the said Committee shall desist from Proceeding with the
said Bill, and shall report the facts to the House.
" And that the Committee reporting on any railwa_ Bill re-
port specially on each of the foregoing particulars." Y
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES said that he had remarked
nn a former occasion that many of the railway companies
(Mr. Dun
proposed would not admit of examination. Although the in-
quiries sought by the Hon. Member for Finsbury
combe) might be very amusing, and the mysteries of Capri"-
court might serve the " Mysteries of Parispc'
rstpilale.h_e did not
think they were necessary for any practical
hear.) The, Hon. Gentleman had omitted the interest of Hear,the
have again,
public in the matter. They had got before them greater
amount of railway business than they would ever
and he should regret their carrying any resolutions that would
deprive the measure 'before the House being as fully and large)y
considered as possible. If submitted to the probing andf-
investigation of the House, he was persuaded that the best Free
would be carried into effect. He did trust no resolution of itnhees House would be agreed to that would prevent the presentou
schemes from being investigated before Committees of the
H
Mr. DISR A ELI said he could not but believe the di,eusse.
sion in which they were engaged was one of considerable im-
portai,ce. He thaught the resolutions of the Hon. Member
for Finsbury contained a great deal of good sense,
and
while
he considered so, he was not opposed to the resolutions pro-
posed by her Majesty's Government. Still, he could not but
think they should have been proposed at an earlier
p er.l.
Wty at so late a time offer such co_nsid eHear, hear.) All rations, whether
from
the Opposition or the t ;overnment ? (
ac-
knowledge the mi,chief done, and all are now ready to propose
a remedy.—( Hear, hear.) One thing was certain, all parties,
however unequal to the occasion, admited that something was
required; and he could not conceive that Government, however
anxious to free industry, or facilitate the application of
ycapital,
had acted as well as a neighbouring countr, who had not the
character either in the amount of its capital,. or the character
great
of its labour, that this country had. He ;Fight game France,
B.y projects,
for instance, where. Complaints hid been niade of the
dela- wliich had taken place in the granting of raik-
thotigh be believed ota complaint was trw made.
And while
no complaint was made of the tardiness of
of France,interference
thereu
was great complaint respecting the swiftness
England. In France, be admitttd, thpy were Lenefito
in this 'respect 14 the Government, but in England they were '
not so benefited.—( Hear, hear.) '' The Government were now
seeking to ihtertere with capital and labour. I f,Il Tact, to carry

Sir R. PEEL said the resolution simply called for the source
whence the deposits were obtained, and he thought the objections
urged against it would be removed by omitting the restrictive
words, namely, " whether out of the deposits or by loans."
Mr. BROTHERTON thought the existing companies had
an oodoe advantage over the new companies ; for while the
latter where required to deposit ten per cent., the former only
furnished a certificate signed by the secretary, to the effect
that they had sufficient funds to carry out the project.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he had no objectioo to omit the
words suggested by the Right Hon. Barooet.
The resolution was agreed to as amended.
Mr. W. COLLETT, having in a few observations, which
were indistinctly beard it} the reporters' gallery, condemned the
. . ..
tuqututorta character of the course proposed by the Govern.
meat,