The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-24 00:00:00

THE SUIT, '-'l4-0141-EYON't TU2SDAY NIORNiIyfG MARCH 24, 194&. -

ate ration of the House to this suliject, in order that , reports of the Board of Trade within the last year. Now, he
that
these
vet} .
ai /rue meams might be devised to prevent the annoyance I should remind that Right lion. Gentleman that he (Lord
mei expose. Ebriugton), as also many Hon. Gentlemen on both sides of
thewith
whichflot-ise,
expressed
reports their
adapprobation
w drawn of
Ms. B ANKES prsseeted two petitions againet the
`Midland Rude ay, from the residents and landholder* onot
.h_e
(li abilitye a r,
hear). He considered they were to blame in not attending
the banks of the Oalshain canal. The petitioners stated more to the suggestions of the Board of Trade. Not only the
that. the Company was about to purchase and disuse the House but her Majesty's Government had overlooked the labo
canal, and tl;at would interfere with certain privileges rions exertions and able investigations of that Loard. He
which they enjoyed under the Canal Act. - thought that in this respect the Government had not paid
Lord WORSLEY moved that it be an instruction to sufficient deference to the decisions of their own friends.
the Committee on Railways, Group No. 9, to proceed Sir R. PEEL said the Hon. Member was labouring under
wi- h the consideration of the Glasgow Harbour Grand a mistake respecting the duty of the Government. The
Junction Rail, ay Terminus till, but after a short dis- Government, as a Government, in Isis (Sir R. Peel's) opinion,
euasien, in which Lord G. Somerset and another Hon. be
had noyight to interfere with the private Bills; and be would
sorry to adopt a principle to the effect that they had, by
Member took part, the Noble Lord withdrew his motion. ad opting the recommendations of the Beard of Trade. It
AM ALGANIATION OF RAILWAYS'. was only when a great principle was involved that the Govern-
Mr. W. PATTEN then moved that a Select Commit- ment, in its capacity as such, was found to come forward in
tee, to consider how far, and under what reguattions, the support of the reports of the Board of Trade. Beyond this
fur. her amalgamation of railways would be consistent they could not reasonably interfere.
with a due regard to the commercial and general into. Lord EBRINGTON said, in speaking of the Government,
rests of the country. In making this motion he did he only alluded to what the Right Hon. Baronet had stated in
not itieen to dispaiuge :melee metions of riala-ays an the discussion that took ',lace early in the session.
eens ral. because he did believe that, with proper tegu- Mr. H. HINDE confessed, for one, that he had looked to see
latieus arid proper restrictions, arnalgnmata ins might be
the Government supporttent
eth reportsde of the
great judgment
oard of Trade,
as those s had mnerally been ma with
rendered more beneficial to the promoters and more con-
and discretion. Hel' thought greater attention should have
ducive to the general interests of the couutry. The ex' been paid to the recommendations of the Board of Trade. If
tent to which it was proposed te carry amalgamations the present Committee was agreed to, and parties hal to be
wos so great that, in his opinion, it was desirable submitted to its ordeal, and then had to pass through a
that the House should be in possession of more accurate Select Committee appointed to inquire into the merits of
information and more practicable results in relation to their Bills, the delay and expense would be very great.
atnalgametion generally before the House proceeded to If some means could be devised by which the investigation of
nit itself to the extent now propesed. The amal- one Committee would he sufficient instead of two—a great ad-
gamation Bills before the House amounted to thirty- vantage would be obtained. Powers ought to be given to the
three, and they cempris; d railway communications ex- Committee to inquire into all the matters for which two Corn
busi--
tending frern one end of the country to the other. At moeistseoefs,t7ecollmehue,ge tow thewere
e intreewsernet mode of conducting the
first sight, it would only appear that some. of these Bills
Sir GEORGE GREY agreedqlre with the Right Hon.
re:atcd only to particular districts, but in two in- Baronet ( Sir Robert Peel) that the Governmnent ought not
stances there were Bills by which five or six separate to interfere with private Bills. After the discussion which had
companies were proposed to be placed under one ma- taken place, he confessed he thought that the appointment of a
nagementeand which proposed to remove that competition Committee, before the Committee on the Bill, was unneces-
iv hich the public had hitherto relied upon for protection. sary. If a preliminary Committee were to sit, it would only
There were some of these Bills to which he thought perform the functions of the Board of Trade of last year. He
public attention was not sufficiently drawn, though they hoped that the inquiries of the Committee would be limited to
tnatrrially affected the commerce of the country. It was some definite and particular object.
Mr. PAKINGTON as a
the
of the Classification Hon.
heat
the suggestion of the
to amalgamate or unite with the railways the object being
Committee of Selection, whose object in making the sugges-
t/ imt reaniiestly to encourage the old se stern of wan r lion was to draw the attention of the House of Commons to the
carriage, which was found to be most inconvenient. The magnitude and importance of the subject. This question of
qui mien assumed such an importance, that he believed if amalgamations was not only the most important, but one of the
the House did nut take measures to regulate and restrain most difficult questions connected with railway subjects.
the speculations of capitalists, the result would be very It was more so-mow; there were no less than 33 amalgams-
ruinous to the country. To give an illustration of what was tion schemes before the House at the present moment. The
' he place, he might mention that there was a
going to ta s , Committee, therfore, thought it their duty to bring the r
under the idonf. He ideredat
mat-
project to connect Scotland with the city of Bristol,
if the Committee hadgone goalie qu Hiouse cons
etly allowin that state of
crossing an immense district of country. Now, it struck
things to go on, they would soon have had all theg communica-
him that it would be impossible to get a company who
tion of the country in the hands of two or three gigantic corn-
could raise a sufficient capital to carry out such a project. panies. He begged to state, that so far as his own opinion
He would not have objected to the Chairman of the was concerned, he would be content to follow the course indr-
Committee of Selection appointing a group of Members cated by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Govern-
possesoing the confidence of the House, to make the ment.
uecessery arrangements which were sought to be obtained Mr. BARING considered that the House was get-
by the motion which he (Mr. W. Patten) now sub- ting into a state of considerable confusion. There were a
witted. He for one, however, at the same time must mass of railways before them, the merits of which should be
say that such a course would be an unusual one, and disposed of without unnecessary delay. The House had three
one to which some objection might be taken. It was a proposal-ins before it as to the_ manner of dispoang of these
question also that might be left to the consideration momentousii)ntl)(l,er efsetrionlorthi. Lancashire (Mr Entwisle), for the
of the Committee appointed at the seggestion of the appointment of a Select Committee to determine certain
Hon. Member for Internees (sir. Morrison), and he (Mr. general principles which were to govern the arteuupsom int.
Patten) would have no objection to its being referred tees in dealing with amalgamation Bills hereafter. Then came
to thee Committee, providing the inquiry into these the proposition fur the Committee of the Hen. Member for
amalgamations could he proceeded with at once. It Inverness (ear Morrison), of which the Right Hon. Baronet,
wa i ittipertant that on such a subject no delay should the Vice-Presalent of the Board of Trade, had justly said
talc' place. If the consideration of the suleject was put that they would have quite sufficient to occupy their attention
off till the middle of the session, the consequence would with'iut attending to the question of amalgamation. And then
tie, that many of the Bills would either have to be adju- they had a proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet at the
f the Government, which he (Mr. Baring) must ti
dimmed on without the result of the inquiry, or else the head °
considered the most business-like Triode
of dealing s
with the
Bills would have to be put off till next session, to question—that a Special Committee be appointed, to whom,
:he great inconvenience of the promoters of these as a group, all the amalgamation Bills would be referred, and
schemes. It wire to obtain the opinion of all parties who, having examined these Bills, should report to the House
througaout the country, whose practical knowledge and upon the sub;ect. He (Mr. Baring) differed with the Right
exoerience enabled them to give advice, and iu order Hon. Baronet only on one point—he would have wished that
t t plece the best information on the subject before the the Committee should have been empowered to examine into the
House, that he proposed the present Committee. merits of the various Bills, and not have been confined, as was
—(Hear, hear.) He thought the report of the Board of proPlosaernd,attioeths e mileretehsceaumghint examination
tof e the tendenciesht to
d c
iodf,,
uthoseo
rrade on this question had not been attended to
athmeacgomparatinve merits of the Bills brouYeht before them. He
enough last session. Had the Committee acted mere
thought that these amalgamation Bills should be all grouped
.in the suggestion of that rs port than they did, much of to and that it would give rise to sets inconvence to the
the evil complained of would have been avoided. promoters of the several Bills. Let them go to that Corn-
Mr. ENT WISLE concurred in the remarks that fell mittee, and let it determine on the nature of these Bills, for
front the Hew member who supported the appointment why should they subject them to a remote trial. He did not
of the Committee. consider that the suggestion of the Member for Bath could
of the Committee. He believed that it would be found, upon by any means be adopted, as it would be a source of endless
investigation by the Committee, that the amalgamations pro- confusion ; what he would recommend was, that they should
posed tiy existing companies were, in many instances, and extract all the amalgamation Bills, and put them into one group.
most instances of a defensive character. The amalgamations They should then refer them to a Committee of five, to be em-
took place in order that the companies might the better defend powered to examine into flair merits, and make their report
themselves against rival schemes, which were only started to to the House, which report should be decisive of the fate of
terrify the existing companies into a compromise. He be- these Bills, they wonld thus obtain the very report for which
lievsd that !he Committee would be of great benefit to the they were new seeking. He should like to hear what arga-
country. He therefore heartily seconded the motion.' ments would be urged against giving to this Committee a
Sir G. CLERK said this question was one of paramount im- power to decide upon the merits of this Bill.
!romance; but he confessed that he did not exactly gather Mr. PACKE said that if the motion were agreed to, the
from the speech of his Hon. Friend chat was the precise ob- public would suffer much loss.
jeer. to which the Committee was_to direct its investigation: Mr. IefORRISON did not think that the sending of those
If that Committee was to lay down several rules under which Bills to a Committee, for the purpose of considering their
certain railways, should amalgamate,. and .under.what eircurne merits, would be the proper plan. They had had enough of
stances amalgamation should not be. permitted, it appeared to such legislation ; what they now wanted was the laying down
him that they would have little else to .do but to give' Parlias -of i principle which the Government should apply in all cases.
mentary sanction to the principles which were laid down. in For instance, before they were prepared to decide upon this
the twenty-first-report of the Board of -Trade last year. ale great question of amalgamation, as had already been suggested
bought that it that were .the object of thd Com- by his Hon. Friend, it should be determined to what extent
mittee, it was an exceedingly desirable one.--(Hear. ) they would sanction the amalgamation of such great railway
The question was; in what manner could these general rules be, companies as now possessed what must be called great
made applicable in individual cases ? He hoped that whatever, legal monopolies.—( Hear, hear.) If that had been
tribunal these.cascs might be brought before, that they would done some years ago many evils of which they
look with extreme jealousy *mon all those proposals of .amalga- had now to complain in railway matters would not
merlon. He had no doubt that many advantages could' be ob- now exist. He thought that railway companies coming now
tamed by the public by a uniformity of management. These before the House, praying for powers to amalgamate should be
benefits might, howevere be effective, by means of arrange- treated as new companies, and therefore subjected to all those
ments in the different companies ; these..arrangernents would preliminary conditions to which the promoters of all new Bills
out possess that • permanent nature which a Parliamentary had to submit.—( Hear, hear.) But, independently of that,
sanction would give them ; they might he altered and modified there were a great many things that had been quite neglected,
by the company. The Board of Trade last year had pointed which were very necessary in these m fitters ; and those things
out some objeetionsewhich it would have been quite as' welt for could have been dor:e without at all affecting their tariffs. For
the interest itf the public had they been-acted . upon. In con- instance, he might quote the present system of carrying
elusion, he considered that the Committee appointed by the Hon.• goods on railways, which much needed amending. They
Member for Inverness (Mr. Morrison) should be instructed to ought to require that railway companies should charge every
inquire how far these general rules might be made applicable person alike ; and ho would propose that if one party was
to individual cases. charged more than another, he should have power to recover
Mr. BARING considered that the question as to the manner back'the overcharge in one of the legal tribunals. These
in which the House was to deal with future railway legislation matters ought to be settled at once, and they could easily do it,
was not a question to be discussed at that for whenever a company came for new prices their line ought
time. He thought that was a future consideration, to be treated as a new one. There ought in his opinion to be
He weuld recommend that a Committee of five should be one general rule applied to railways, and all company's required
formed, to whom they would give a power, in cases of unopposed to charge one rate of fares. But he might be told, that a line
Bills, to send for any witnesses they might choose. He was which passes through a poor country could not charge so low
very much afraid that from the committee for which the Hon. fares as a company which ran through a populous country. His
Member had moved they would get no report, except a very answer, however, to that was very simple. If the line would not
hurried one. His Hon. Friend had said very pertly that the pay at particular fares, the line ought never to have been made.
report of toe Board of Trade had not been sufficiently attended Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that if the Vice-President
to by him. but that very report stated o That nothing could be of the Board of Trade were to apply his attention to the amal-
more difficult than to lay down any general principle for cases emulation of railways, the result of his opinions would furnish a
of amalgamation ;" and if they were not to lay down a rule, much better guide than could be obtained from the appoint-
they would ever have the seine uncertainey. Their only course, ment of the proposed Committee.
therefore, was to refuse to appoint the Committee, and throw Mr. DUNCOMBE was of opinion that the amalgamation
it upon the Government to bring forward some measure on of railway Bills was a matter attended with very considerable
their own responsibility which would meet the difficulties of the difficulty. He had, on one occasion, been a member of a
case. Committee which had to deal with the amalgamation of the
Sir ROBERT Pe EL said, that it would appear from what Grand Junction line and the Birmingham and Gloucester
the Hon. Gentleman had said, that her Majesty's Govern- Ralway. In that inquiry the Committee complained very
ment hail very much neglected the subject of railway legislation. much of having no distinct reference to guide them in coming
Mr. BARING—Last year. to a decision. He was of opinion that a preliminary Commit-
Sir ROBERT PEEL—The Hon. Member should recol- tee should be appointed, as the House at present certainly was
lect that the House must take a share of the blame with her not in a position to deal with the amalgamation Bills. The
Majesty's Government—( Hear, hear)—because they had in a Hon. Member for Inverness seemed to be satisfied that some
great measure acted contrary to the advice of those who had of the amalgamation Bills might be allowed to pass. Hon.
been appointed to consider the question of railway amalgama- Gentlemen used the term amalgamation in too loose a man-
tion. They had not received very favourably the r.-port which nor, and frequently in ignorance of what this term really
the Board of Trade made last year. That report laid down meant. He ( Alr. Duncombe) supposed that amalgama-
the principle upon which (speaking gent rally) einalgamatien two meant that the conducting of the affairs of two
should be permitted ; and it then proceeded to apply those railways should be brought under the superintendence
principles to every case of amalgamation which was brought of one Board. But there existed two kinds of
before Parliament during the last session. It was distinctly amalgamation, one of which consisted of union for the public
admitted in that report, that it was very difficult to lay down advantage, and the other of union to promote private interests.
universally the principle on which 'an amalgamation should Now it was to provide against the monopoly which the latter
proceed.—( Hear, hear.) And -it was admitted, that there kind of amalgamation would result in, that the House should
might be cases in which amalgamation might be permitted be specially careful. He thought that a Committee should be
with the greatest advantage to the public interests—( Hear, appointed to make a preliminary inquiry into the nature and
hear)—because, wherever there was a number of distinct objects of any proposed amalgamation; and such Committee
and independent lines, forming a great channel of coin- would not at all interfere eith the motion of his Hon. Friend,
munication between distant parts, and the proprietors of the Member for Inverness.
those lines desired to amalgamate, it would certainly be to the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entertained
interest of the public that the desired amalgamation should be similar °Onions with thoee pronounced by the Hon. Gentle-
permitted. On the other hand, the Board of Trade declared man who had just sat down. He believed that it was neces-
it to be their conviction, that an amalgamation between power- sary that some definite rules should be aid down
l with respect
ful companies, whose lines of railway lay in the same district, to the amalgamation of railways, for it was perfectly true,
could be
thine
would deprive the public of many advantages which railway as the Hon. Gentleman had observed, that no e
communication was calculated to afford.—( Hear, hear.) more indistinct than the case of amalgamation which had
Although the House did not receive that report of the Board been brought before the House. He must say, that looking
of
of Trade last year, be still thought that the recommendations at the subject in all its bearings, the best modeproceeding
in that report were wise and comprehensive, particularly as appeared to him, to appoint a Committeein which the House
1 ich Committee
the
far as amalgamation were concerned ; and he only asked could have confidence, and of W I •.
Vice-
the House to bear a share of the responsibility which had been President of the Board of Trade should be chairman, to in- t
thrown upon the Government. The House must recollect vestigate the merits of the various amalgamation Bills, and
that they had jealously overruled the decisions of the Board. of report theirtite opinionxee accordingly.uer)th
atlt struck him (the. Chan-
Trade. However, they were now convinced
justifiable,by
.experienee cellar. of E. h q .. this mode of proceeding would
be and not interfere with the motion of the Hon. Member for Inver-
that amalgamation in certain cases might
would, at the same time, tend
connimive to the public interest, and lie believed, that with nest,l and
tineof e
the progress
E would publichumbly submit business.
to the House that no
his Hon. Friend.—(l-lear, hear.) Now, with
) had their more amalgamations of railway companies should be allowed to
of railway Bills, namely, those which.
portant class the metropolitan dis• take place until the report of the Committee of 1845 had been
termini in the city of London, or within . .
them for the consideration of a produced,
and he would further propose that the consideration
ti lets, they proposed to reserve
Crown f every
dby the ; and o f ocase of amalgamation should be postponed until th
Special Commission, to be appointed
for the report of the Committee which bad been appointed to inquire
course the progress of those Bills would be suspended. .
h b•ect should be obtained.
adopt this comae
present. Now, might they not . .
with respect into t esu j
Mr. W. R. COLLETT considered that whenever I ama gee 1
to amalgamation, substituting a Committeefor the Commission,
relation had taken place, the public had been greatly benefited—
them,and refer the amalgamation Bills, which were at present before
the fares had invariably been lowered, and everyp- ins had been
to the best Co emittee they could appoint, who should
to meet the public convenience. He had always enter-
Bills
consider the question of amalgamation as bearing upon those taken.
d the opinion that the House was favourable to the amal-
consider
before them, and leave it for the general Committee to tattle .
-railways, and felt •
elation of
at its leisure the principles which ought in ga
desire to thro r a difficulty in the y
future to guide them, when dealing with amalgamatione exist
deIIARRY VANE suggested that certainwa general prig-
general 1
Bills? They would thus have a Committee or, t
..
les might be laid down, so that those who had to deal with
general subject of railway legislation, a Commission to consider
Lthipe matter might be able to form some efiite judgment as to
railways which had their termini within the metropo lean
hd h-
the practicability and utility of any
proposed amalgamation.
trios, and a Committee upon the amalgamation Bills,
w ihee He could not see that any bad result le the consequence
were now pressing, who might give their opinions tot
of
postponing the consideration of the amalgamation Bills to
House as to what other tribunals these amalgamations shouldi
nether session. Until the matter had been thoroughly sifted,
he referred in future, and as to the general pr es app ic- a
ld be difficult to say, whether, when deciding on any
able to railway amalgamations, so far as present
the session it wou
amalgamation Bill, the Committee were not preventing the con-
was concerned.—( Hear.)
truction of a line which would be more beneficial to the public.
Mr. FOX MAULS regretted that the House did not last s
of Trade Mr. WILSON PATTEN then briefly replied, and proposed
year carry out the admirable report of the Board
appointeden that the adoption of the report of the Railway Committee of
this subject, but he hoped the Committee, if they
1845 should be added to the original motion.
one, would be directed to take this report into their particular
In reply es a question from Mr. SMYTHE,
consideration.—( Hear. ) In reference to the ama g I ation Bills,
tech Alm .
should merely report cn them with reference to the prince w• PATTEN said it was not his intention to exclude
if it was proposed to refer them to a Committee,w .
le the consideration of the amalgamation of canals from the atten-
-
tion of the Committee, and he would insert the word "canals"
of amalgamation, it was so far well; but if the Committeesrailway.t in every case after
should be empowered to go into the merits of the Bills, i
The resolution as amended, was then from the Ch • and
put Chair,
would only be getting up a system of rivalry between the lines
under consideration and rival lines. His own opinion was
agreed to. Mr. HUN] E wished to ask two questions of the Noble
that, if the Committee proposed by his Hon. Friend should be
the President of the Board of Control. He wished to
appointed, there should be some general measures laid down, Lord .
if there was any truth in the which appeared in
somewhat, he would suggest, similar to the rules adopted by knew
with respect to reports '
our affairs in India? The
the Bord of Trade, and which rules should be adhered to by the Paris
paperswhich he
the House. That was the only way, in his opinion, to do 1 second questionwished to have answered was
Government had
justice to tee 1311, ; but whatever course would be adopted he I whether the taken into their consideration
system of communication '
( Mr. Maule) was prepared to support the proposition of his ', the present. , with India by our over-
Hon. Friend opposite. I land mail ? He thought that the Government should do some-
Lord EBRINGTON said it appeared to him that the act i thing to save them from depending upon such reports, by
of amalgamation was a Voluntary act. The subject of amalga- ; establishing abetter means of communication, more especially
mation was so important, and pressed so generally on the corn- I when it was shown by DI r. Waghorn that he had been enabled
munity, that the Committee moved for could not possibly de- I to anticipate the overland mail by forty-eight hours.
tide on the question. The question, it appeared to him, de- Lord JOCELYN said that, as the Indian mail had not
pended on this—whether they would adopt the principle of yet arrived, he could not give a positive answer as to the cor-
competition. or take security on behalf of the public azainst rectness of the reports in the Paris papers. With respect to
monopoly—thus sanctioning monopoly, but putting it under the second question, he would say that the Government had it
proper regulations ? He was certain the result of the Commit- under their consideration, and would, no doubt, adopt some
tee, keeping such object in view, would he most beneficial., measure to meet the inefficiency of the present means of com-
New, how were they to deal with railway legislation in gene- - munication.
ral? The Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir Robert Peel) la- Sir R. PEEL wished to inform the House how this in-
mented that more attention had not been paid to the very able formation had reached the Government of this country,

as the subject was most important to many, perhaps his ex-
planation would go far to allay any anxiety. Tile intelligence
was telegraphed trots Marseilles to Paris, and the French
Government immediately communicated it to her Majesty's
Government. This was all the authority at present for the re-
ports in question.
Lord PALMERSTON wished to put a question to the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government,
with respect to their relations with Buenos Ayres. He wished
to know if they were at all acting in the war which was going
on between the Republic of Buenos Ayres and Monte Video?
The language of the Government in Parliament was the
language of peace, but the acting of their ministers at these
places were the acts of war. There had been advertisements
for ships to remove the British subjects f. om Buenos Ayres
to Monte Video, and this looked as if the Government of this
country had taken part with the latter republic. If they
were at war with Buenos Ayres it was right that the Govern-
ment shouldcommunicate the fact, and if not it was proper that
such should be stated. He thought it necessary for her
Majesty's Ministers to say whether or not they ha 4 sanctioned
the acts of their ministers at these places. Without reading
the instructions of the Government to their consuls, it was
difficult to make out whether or not those gentleman had acted
for peace or war. He wished to know from the Right Hon.
Baronet if the country was at war with Buenos Ayres?
Sir R. PEEL thought, as the notice.of the Noble Lord was
not very formal, it would he better that he should simply
answer the question, and he would recommend that no
discussion should take place. It was with great reluctance
that her Majesty's Government had interfered with the affairs
of Buenos Ayres, and it was not till protesting became almost
intolerable that this country interfered. The independence of
the republic was established through the interference of this
country, and it was acknowledged by the Brazils. The inte-
rests of England were g eatly connected with the two repub-
lics, and the mercantile interests were very much injured by
the continuation of hostilities- The Government of this
country represented to Prance that the war was most injurious
to the mercantile interests, and in conformity with those re-
presentations, treaties were made and accepted in 1841 by
Monte Video, and rejected by Buenos Ayres. By these
treaties England had no other object hut the restoration of
peace—no accession of territory was sought, for that was out
of the question. England and France at. a later period sent a
special mission, recommending a cessation of hostilities, and, if
possible, to restore peace. The proposals were again accepted
by Monte Video, but were rejected by Buenos Ayres. It was
then agreed by the two Governments that they would not in-
terfere by force unless actually compelled. The instructions
which had been given by this country to their Ministers
there were now laid on the table, and he could assure the Noble
Lords and the House that those instructions did not amount
to a declaration of war. The question put by the Noble Lord
was, whether we were or were not at war with Buenos Ayres?
This country was not at war with that republic, although it
wastrue that a blockade of Cuba and the River Plate, by the
instructions of the Government, had taken place • but this did
not amount to a declaration of war. The expedition up the
River Panama had not been contemplated by the Government,
but no doubt the explanation of the minister there would be
quite satisfactory as to such a proceeding. With regard to the
removal of several of her Majesty's subjects from Buenos Ayres,
the Noble Lord, he apprehended, was under an erroneous im-
pression. The fact was this, some subjects of her Majesty,
being alarmed for their personal safety, left Buenos Ayres and
went to Monte Video, and applied to Mr. Owsley for assistance
and protection. Their removal was quite voluntary; Mr.
Owsley contributed as much as he could to their comfort and
safety, but being persons of agricultural pursuits, and the
country not affording scope for the exercise of their pursuits,
Mr. Owsley found it necessary to remove them, with their
own consent. He believed that he had then answered the
questions of the Noble Lord as far as was nece-sary ; further
than that he could not go, without provoking a discussion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he rose to express a hope that the
Right Hon Baronet would give, either at that moment, or as
soon as pceaible, some further information on the subject. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had admitted there had been ships
taken and ordered for sale. Now, certainly, it required some
Order of Council to justify the Admiral in such proceedings;
and with respect to the operations of the troops, he wished to
know how they could be accounted for.
Sir R. INGLIS wished to make an observation, About two
centuries ago—( Laughter )—a fleet sailed up the Medway, and
laid waste everything. They had an instance, also, of a Rus-
sian fleet committing the most enormous ravages. Now, be-
tween these cases and the present he saw no difference what-
ever. to satisfy the friends of peace. How, for instance, could
the Quakers be satisfied that England was not at war with
Buenos Ayres, when all the incidents of war that occurred at
Navarino, and in other naval engagements were enacted?
He wished to know what the distinction between war and
peace was, when under both forms there was loss of life and
destruction of property ? If such constituted peace, he again
wished to ask what was the difference between it and war?
Sir R. PEEL said that if the Hon. Baronet referred to the
records of the year 1828, the period of Navarino, he would
find that there was a declaration of war, and that England ac-
tually was at war.--( Hear, hear.) In the present instance,
the blockade was directed by the command of her Majesty's
Ministers, and whatever responsibility attached to such the
Ministers and representatives of her Majesty were ready to
undertake. He thought her Majesty's subjects, sailors and
soldiers, engaged in the blockade, were entitled to the greatest
credit for their gallantry in the affair; and he should conclude,
by stating, that he was not then prepared to lay before the
House further information in respect to the matter, but as
soon as he couli do so, consistently with the public interest. of
course he would take an early opportunity of laying it before
the House.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MILNER GIBSON said, that in the last session of
Parliament he had presented several petitions in reference to
the subject then before the House, and he then begged to say
that whatever the policy of Government might be, he hoped
they would protect the free navigation of the River Plate.
MINISTERIAL MEASURES.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from Rochdale,
signed by 8,000 persons, praying for an immediate reduction
and abolition of taxation on articles of food, as contemplated
by the Government. The petition was ordered to lie on the
table.
Sir R. PEEL said he had been requested to present two
petitions. The first was from Liverpool, and the commercial
interests of that city prayed that the Government would not
delay its decision in abolishing protective duties. No petition
was ever more respectably signed than was the present by gen-
tlemen of all parties. He had been informed, that in the
course of a few hours 414 of the signatures of the most respect-
able gentlemen in that city had been attached. Every banking
hou-e in the city subscribed to the document. It bore the sig-
natures of 214 merchants and shipowners, and 191 ship-
brokers. The petitioners stated that every branch of trade
was paralysed by the uncertainty and indecision tha
at present existed ; and they prayed that the Go-
vernment would, at as early a day as possible,
pronounce its decision. The second petition was from
Manchester, and bore the signatures of 1,122 gentle-
men, attached in the short space of twenty-four hours. It
had been signed by the eminent bankers, by fifty-five members
of the tovrn.couneil, and by the greater number of the large
houses engaged in the East and West India trade, the Canada,
Russian, and American trade; and be (Sir R. Peel) had been
assured that the capital possessed by those on whose behalf the
petition was signed, d;d not fall much short of thirty millions.
—( Hear, hear.) The petitioners stated that they observed
with much satisfaction the course adopted by her Majesty's
Government, and prayed that, while they admitted the pro-
priety of giving due deliberation to mattes of such grave im-
portance, the House would pronounce its decision on as early
a day possible.—( Hear, hear. )
The petitions were ordered to lie on the table.
An How. MEMBER (whose name we could not learn) pre-
sented 46 petitions from Buckingham, against the measures in-
troduced by her Majesty's Ministers.
Mr. ET WALL presented some petitions in favour of the
measures submitted by Ministers.—Ordered to lie on the table.
THE CORN-LAWS.
On the order of the day, that this Bill be read a second time,
being put.
Mr. ELIOT YORKE said that, unaccustomed as he
was to address the House, and, knowing his own deficiency, he
hesitated to appear before them ; but he was urged on to the
discharge of the duty by the petitions which he held in his
hand, signed as they were by an immense number of agricultur-
ists, and therefore he could not then, as formerly, give a silent
vote on the question, lest the truth of his own opinions
should be doubted, and the sincerity of his professions sus-
pected.—(Hear, hear.) His intention on that occasion was to
move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.
—( Hear, hear.) In advancing to that subject he would say,
if the Gentlemen ou that (the Ministerial) side of the
House felt as he did, he entreated of them not to be deterred
by what had taken place, but by every form which the House
recognised, and by the adoption of every course which it
sanctioned, to unite and exert themselves for the defeat of the
measure then before the House.—( Hear, hear.) He objected
to the Bill because it sought to repeal a pi inciple which
had been recognised by the people of England as
identified with their best interests.—( Hear, hear.)
It was stated that no apprehension is manilestedin the agricul-
tural districts on this subject, but he could answer that the sen-
timents of the district which he represented were not in its
favour. That district was an area of 1,600,000 acres. It was
formerly a wilderness, now it was a great corn-growing district.
But in order to bring it to this state a large expenditure had
taken place. Not less than five millions had been expended to
bring these wastes into cultivation ; and all this had been done
on the faith of proteetion.—( Hear, hear.) At the present
moment they were subjeeted in that district to an annual tax of
from Bs. to 12s. per acre, or an aggregate tax of 80,0001. per
annum. If prices fell, as he expected they would, the amount
of distress that must result would be appalling. He did not
expect a reduction in prices this year, while so much capital
was expended on public works; but as soon as that capital was
withdrawn their prices would fall, and general depression over •
take all engaged in agricultural operations. The Hon. Gen-
tleman then read several extracts, from correspondence he had
had with parties in the agricultural districts in support of this
view of prices, showing that, next year, with the Government
measure in operation, and an average crop, the price of
wheat would be from 40s. to 455. per quarter, and that the
wages of the labourers would have to be reduced at least 2s.
per week. He had that day received a letter from a gentleman,
stating that at the present moment an eminent corn merchant
in Gloucester had imported wheat from Odessa at 375. per
quarter. He had also received information that several parties
engaged in agriculture intended to remove abroad, and de-
vote themselves to the raising of wheat, if the Government
measure was carried into effect. All this showed that it was
impossible for the farmers go on under the new system, and
meet payments. He had been furnished with several calcula-
tions on the subject. One was, that in a farm of 400 acres,
on which there was a loss under, protection of 3171., under
free-trade the loss would be 8561. 9s. 2d.—(Hear, hear.) On
another farm of aOO acres, it was calculated that the loss under
the corn measure would not be less than 665/. 11 s. Bd., or a
sum nearly equal to the whole rent.—( Hear.) Yet this was a
farm that paid 1,200/. per annum for labourers' wages. The
Hon. Member then referred to certain returns respecting the
amount of disease to the agricultural districts in various years,
showing that in those years when corn was cheapest disease
and distress most abounded. He also referred to the tables of
prices, furnished by Mr. Crooke, showing that the effect of an
overabundance was to produce a state of suffering and distress
in the agricultural districts, and among the labouring classes.
The present law gave fair and moderate prices, and was all that
could be required, unless the Government wanted low prices.
If they did so, then he had shown that 'low prices meant
distress and low wages to the labouring classes —( Hear.)
the
to
On this point he would refer to the authority of Lord
Fitzwilliam, who said, that the repeal of the corn-laws meant
ruin to the farmers and destitution to the labourers.—
( Hear, hear ) He (Mr. R. Yorke) would therefore
oppose the Bill by every means in his power, so as to
s
edp
oer
orf enva-etl
atthwhees
jou(ni
oyeuecorporation
operation
thatt
hwheae
ewsleiukalidtni go
gntoh oes ft h in
repeal
th offer
protec-
tion principle. In the year 1844, the rates in the agricultural
districts were much higher than in the year 1842, though, in
the former period, the system had been relaxed. He further
objected to the measure before the House, on account of its
injustice. He did not deprecate the law from any selfish
or exclusive grounds, but because it would be an act
of spoliation in a great and important interest, which they
were bound to defend. And if the measure was carried by
the Government, he hoped they would not escape without that
denunciation and desecration which they deserved, and which
their treachery had justly earned.—( Hear. hear.) He ob-
jected to this measure because, while it took away all
protection from the agriculturists, it left on land and houses
all the great public burdens of the country.—( Hear, hear.)
He did not avow these principles for the purpose of making a
speech. He felt deeply upon this matter. They must look

labourers erSuff)lk had arrived to such a state of . .o
their employers that they set fire to their corn-stacks and
dwelling-houses, and even the women and children jeered those
who attempted to save the wreck, and loudly cheered as the
burning roofs of their employers' houses fell to the earth.
Nothing but the great respect which he entertained for
the superior wisdom of the Right Hon. Gentleman at
the head of the Government could have induced him to give
his support to the present measure, for he believed him when
he acid that they would have a tendency to put a stop to such a
frightful spirit amongst the labouring classes of this country.
That the present system of protection had not benefited the
farmers was acknowledged by the farmers themselves. He
would conclude by expressing his most earnest hope that when
these great measures had passed—and pass he trusted they
would—( Hear, hear)—they would proceed to other measures,
having for their object the improvement of the moral and in-
tellectual condition of the great bady of the people of this
country.— ( Ilear, hear.) And he could not but think that the
vast sums of money, which it appeared had been raised by
the Anti-Corn-law League, would be handed over to the mem-
bers of the Government for that most laudable purpose.
There was a great fund belonging to the Anti-Corn-law
League, which he hoped would be applied to the raising of some
peaceful trophy for the benefit of the poor, and which he trusted
would not be employed in carrying out a most questionable,
and for themselves a most perilous agitation. He would merely
state in conclusion, that he would give a most cordial and dis-
interested support to the measures of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, convinced that they would tend to promote the interests
of all classes, and that it would place the prosperity of the
country on a sure and proper basis, namely, on the loyal af-
fections of a united people.
Mr. I'ACKE observed that the League fund was raised
for the purposes of agitation, and for no other purposes would
it ever be applied. He did not consider that he had heard one
single argument from the Right Hon. Gentleman in the whole
course of the debate which would induce him to alter his
opinions. One reason which had been assigned was the
cistress in Ireland, but in his mind the returns laid upon the
table would not bear nut the statements which had been made
respecting the scarcity existing in that country. Hon. Gentle-
men opposite seemed to imagine that corn was to be produced
in the same manner in which wool was woven, and that by the
application of some power at present unknown a greater
quantity than at present existed might be produced
but he could tell them that farming might be pushed too far,
and that land may be so highly cultivated as to yield more
straw than at present, while the quantity of corn would be
greatly diminished. Ile had attended a very influential meet-
ing of farmers and gentlemen in Nottingham, and one of the
resolutions adopted by them was in these terms—" That an
entire abolition of the corn.laws, in the teeth of the most
powerful arguments made in their support by the Prime Minis-
ter and Secretary of State for the Home Department when
in opposition, would have the effect of diminishing the confi-
dence of the people in public men.' Now he entirely agreed with
the sentiments embodied in that resolution, and that the pre-
sent conduct of her Majesty's Ministers must for the future
diminish the confidence of people in any Government what-
soever.—( Hear, hear.) He objected to this measure, because
he had heard no kind of reason for its adoption—because
he believed it would inflict a lasting evil on
the best interests of the country and, because
it was a breach of faith ; and, to adopt the words of a late
Noble Member of the Cabinet, " Because I cannot support the
Government in it without a violation of consistency and of
honour."
Mr. F. M NITLE said that he considered it right for Hon.
Members on his side of the House .to state the grounds on
which they supported the proposition of her Majesty's
Government ; and he would, in the first place, state that that
proposition had not his entire approbation, because it did not
go to the entire extent of his wishes, and because it
fell short of that which he considered the remedy
of the difficulties which then existed, but, nevertheless,
he, for one, would accept it with gratitude, and he
would endeavour to give it his most cordial support.
He felt it his duty to investigate what were the
feelings of the farmers in the country upon the measure,
and he had no hesitation in saying publicly, that there was no
panic among thelandlords, nor amongst the farmers ; and, in
spite of all that had been said, agricultural energy was proceed-
ing with an increased prosperity from day to day—( Hear, hear)
—and notwithstanding the dissent expressed by gentlemen
below the gangway, he could produce practical examples of
what he stated. When the proposition was first made, there
was a document laid before the public, emanating from an Hon.
Member, and from the nature of the advice which he gave, and
the method in which he placed the question, he con-
sidered the country owed' him a deep debt of gra-
titude ; he meant the Member for Stockport.—( Hear, hear. )
Within ten days after the publicatien of his letter, in which he
had developed the nature of this measure, the farmers in many
of the largest market-towns came to the conclusion that, in-
stead of being benefited by the three years, their interests
would have been best consulted by an immediate abolition.
This was their conclusion, and such also his (Mr. F. Maule's)
conclusion. He looked with regret at the fact that the
repeal of these laws should be put off for three years. He
could not forget that the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of
her Majesty's Government had said, that so great was the
distress of the country as to incline him to open the ports in
last November. He (Mr. Fox Maude) had hoped that before
the Easter recess this measure would have passed. But he must
regret that there was another measure connected with Ireland,
which, judging from the length of Irish debates in that House,

narrowly into this subject, and they should not have hie assent they would be prevented (from taking she thirst reedit, or t -,
to the proposed change unless they consented to remodel the Bill tillafter the recess. Ile believed that the landlords of his
taxation of the country. He did not hesitate to say, in the country would be as safe after the passing of the measure as
latiguatee which the Right Hon. Baronet the Home Secretary they are now.—( Hear, lee ar. ) He was acquainted with one
in 1839 used, that the Government had been guilty of a gross county where they li md te :lien their support from the Govern-
fraud upon the public. He would save word to the new proselytes ment and given it to a Neible. Duke in the other House, aho
below him. It was the same with apostasy in politics as in here led the opposition against this measure. He knew two farms
religion. The proselyte was only used to strike a blow, and belonging to that Noble :peke, one of them had been let, since
the blow having been struck, the apostate was kicked over, be- the introduction of this measure, at an advanced rent of 901.,
cerise he was not then trusted by those who had used him. and there was an especiatagreement that this rent was to be
He (Mr. Yorke) begged to move that the bill be read a second paid in money. Now, this was a proof that no such injury as
time that day six months. was anticipated to the landed interest would resulto—( Hear,
Sir J. Y. BULLER agreed with the views expressed by his hear.) As to the exact increase of the ethef farm, he
Hon. Friend, and, supporting those views, he could not corsent wee not so well informed; but this he could say,
to allow the Bill further to proceed. He had supported the that it had materially advanced upon the old rental.
last alteration in the eern-laws, believing that no further alter- From one and all of the farmers, lie learned that, where a
anion would be proposed, at all events during the present Par- farm was to let, the rent had increased most materially. In the
liament, He had been greatly disappointed when he had heard county of Haddirigtom a meeting was called for the purpose of
of the determination of the (iovernment. He had not yet re- apposing the measure brought in by her Majesty's Govern-
covered from that disappointment. ment, and for upholding the protection to agriculture. A
Mr. APGE ACHY would support the measure of her Ma- friend of his, who had taken a leading part at that meeting, had
jesty's Government, because he believed it wise and politic. not only asserted that no injury would accrue to the landed
Having supported the reductions in the tariff, and looking to interest by the measure, but he had since stated that he
the effect of those reductious, he thought there was hail gained an advanced rent for two leases, and it was Said
every encouragement to proceed. ( Hear, hear.) by him that all leases of land were sought after with
Every man who looked candidly and fairly into the position, avidity at a very high increase of rent.—( " Hear, bear,"
and the difficulties of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of from Sir Robert Peel.) A farm in Seetlarid whielroae to
, let had been taki n at five guineas an acre, which bail faro
the Government, during the last year, would not. in his
1 tnerly been at a much lower rental. Many a sensible farmer
far-
opinion, use any harsh expressions towards him for the mea-
had complained to him of the bee spirit which had grown up
votes is high he had brought forward ; they would in fact con-
fess that he hail meted the part of a wise and experienced between them and the manufacturing districts. They re.
statesman. Every dispassionate man, who viewed the
position ;;vetted that such an evil spirit prevailed, and expressed
r wish that the discussion on the ecoin-laws was at
of the poorer classes of this country, would refrain from charg-
thei
an end. They said they could rot make all
ins the Right Hon. Baronet with inconsistency for having pro-
f
armor?, and if the interests of time
would allude for a moment, as he conceived that the prevalence their tons
posed his present measures. There was one point to whieb lie
!country generally were not looked to they would not be able to
of the present system was injudicious, and injurious to the in- . give their families the means of maintaining themselves.
terests of the country. Ihe Whig Marty themselves, until a —( Hear, hear.) He was sure. after the measure had sassed,
very recent period, were protectionists, and a great portion of the Honourable Gentlemen who had opposed it would, after
the political difficulty of the present crisis was increased by the I the turmoil of this discussion lied passed away, give her
feet of the Noble Lord, the Member for London, havin been Majesty's Ministers credit fir the great advantages they lad
g
unable to accept the reins of Government, which had bees i conferred upon the country by the repeal of these laws.
abandoned by the Right Hon. Baronet and his colleagues. It i Looking at America, what was it that caused so friendly
wee evident that the cause of that non-acceptance of office was 1 a feeling in that country, and so great a desire
to preserve
the weakness and dissensions of that political party. Such a . their friendly relations with ns• advantages which
course would surely lead to the most injurious con-s.euences.
What would be the practical results of such a course?q Why, i they, in common with ourselves, would derive from the results
governed by the Exeter-hail or iof this great commercial question. He was of oplaion that this
that the country would be i
i measure would meet the esigencies of the country, and that
Anti-lela enooth Committee, or by 17, Old Bond-street or the i..t
this
support the full interest of the people generally, and
Central Protection Society, and all its reason he would give it his most cordial support.
atet remote provincial 1
branches. But there was one other ornonwhich he would otM:CHOLMONDELY would allude to a portion of the
touch. It had been laid down by Hon.p Members that it was speech. of. the Hon. Member. for. Huntingdon, who alluded to
the duty of Parliamentary representativestinto vote in unison *dissolution of Parliament in connexion with this measure.
with the pledges they had given at the hues
jug such a course would be contrary to their hgons,esntotwith stand- He (Mr. Chohnondely) regretted that i.i.itt question_ should. be
convictions. under the discussion of the present Pal eament. He might be
But he trusted that the gentlemen of England would do their met by having it said that it was not necessary to take the
duty fearlessly and independently of the remonstrances of their sense of the countryon measure.right; but
the Now, constitutionally
constituents, and for the interest of their fellow-countrymen.— this was theoretically Rightw' Hon. Baronet
(Hear, hear.) He would quote the advice of a great states- had not long sinc told the house, that when he
man, and a great asserter of popular rights—he meant first found the measure necessary for the country, so great a
Mr. Burke, who cautioned members of the Legislature from an question was it that lie k himself bound to resign.
abject obedience, in all instances, to the caprice of their con- True, he had also informed the House th
;nt he was not con-
siituents. His sincere advice to them was to consult the inte- stitationally bound to do sobut looking. at the magnitude
rests of the country at large rather than those of an isolated of the changes which were necessary to) the well-being of the
party of men.—( Hear, hear.) They had had an example country, he considered that he was bound to act as he hall done.
durins the present session of the unjust operation of the doe- Surely then it was net at this late period of the debate to take
trine that had been laid down as to the obstinate adherence to the opinion of the country upon the measure.—( Hear, hear.)
pledges given at elections. If there was any other man who, With regard to the state of Ireland, he thought that
more than another, had a right to a place in that House it was even the misery of that country, to use a homely
the Noble Lard, lately the Member for Dorsetshire, and yet he phrase, was too weak a peg to hang such a measure on. He
had been ejected from Parliament by the exercise of the op- hoped that such an expression would not be thought as sport-
pressive doctrine that had been laid down by Hon. Members ins with the distressed condition of Ireland, for he did not use
who belonged to the protectionist party. Now there was a second it in such a sense, although words used in that House were
alternative that had been proposed by the protectionist party, very often laid hold of, and from which it would be ar-
for the removal of the present crisis. That remedy, if he gued that there was a disinclination on the part of Hon.
rightly understood the sp eelies of the Hon. Member for Members to consider the state of that country, but he was
Newark, and of other Hon. Members, at an early stage of this sure that no such indifference existed in the minds and wishes
debate, was, that there should be a compromise of a fixed of Hon. Members on his side the House with regard to Ireland,
duty. Now, it as peered to him, that if there was one course As far as the distress in Ireland was concerned, it could not be
which more than any other would involve the greatest amount be denied that throwing open the ports would conduce much
of political dishonesty on the part of the Conservative party, more to the relief of that country than would the present mea-
it was that very course of a fixed duty upon the importation of sure, inasmuch as while the ports were allowed to remain open
foreign corn. When the sliding scale was brought forward, in it was equivalent to the utter and entire abolition of all duty.
the year 1841, and it was proposed by the Whig party that in- Another thing that struck him as being rather singular was,
stead thereof there should be adopted a fixed duty, they were that a permanent remedy should be applied to the relief of a
met- in the most clamorous manner by the present protec- temporary grievance. There had been a great cry
Lion party, who declared that they would oppose any such pro- got up, in the House and out of the House,
posal, and they were prepared to stand by the sliding scale. against the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's
How, then, if they talked of political tergiversation, could the Government. in which he could not join, nor could he partici-
some protectionist party come forward now, and say that they pate in it. It was true he could net approve of or support the
were prepared to accept a fixed duty.—(Hear, hear.) Would measure then before the House, yet he should give the Right
they now pledge themselves to support the proposal for such Hon. Baronet every credit for the sincerity of his motive in
Porn. a duty as had been proposed by the Hon. Member for bringing forward so comprehensive a measure in the fair, can-
fret? if they would, they would prove themselves to be guilty did, and upright manner in which he had brought it on.
of the greatest political dishonesty upon the question of the Mr. SCOTT said he stood on the present occasion in a
corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) But no, they would pledge them- position of some peculiarity, a position which he knew would
selves to nothing.—( Hear, hear.) They would only clamour render him obnox ous. In taking the course which he then
for a dissolution of the present Parliament—( Hear, hear. ) was compelled to take, he was riot adopting a course congenial
because on the return of another, they anticipated a trium- to his own sentiments, or in accordance with his foregone opi-
phant majority, pledged to a more indefinite amount of inde- nions. He had never been a supporter of the Right Hon. Baronet
finite protection.—( Hear.) But such a Parliament ac that before 1836, when he found it absolately oeeessary to join
could not exist for one single month. Even if another Parlia- his party ; and since that period, he every day became more
ment were returned, 'they would find themselves compelled to and more convinced of his great sagacity, political wisdom, and
propose and adopt the very same measures as had been pro- integrity.— (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.) He hoped his agri-
posed by the present Government.—(Hear, hear.) He would cultural friend would not be alarmed at the idea of the large
now take a glance at the justice of relaxing the present restric- amount of corn that was likely to come from America ; for the
tions upon the freedom of commerce. Looking at the mea- distance was such as to render the quantity not at all likely to in-
sures that were introduced in 1842, and having seen the ad- terfere much with the market of this country. It would soften
vantages which had been derived from the relaxation then intro- the asperity of the population of the west towards this country,
duced and passed, he confessed that his views in favour of pro- would induce a healthier feeling than that which at present ex-
teetion had been changed, and he would cordially support the isted. From what he knew of Canada, also, he did not think
measures now proposed for the further relaxation of corn- the feeling there was such as hail been represented ; nor did he
merce.—( Hear, hear.) But he could notbut believe that the think that colony would be at all injuriou ly affect•J. He did
effects of the proposed changes had been greatly exag- not- attach such importance to the change at opinion on this
gerated by the protectionists on the one hand, and question as some Hon. 'Members on that able of the House
by the friends of free-trade on the other. On the did. He thought a man might change his opinions conscien-
one hand there would be an increased demand for food tiously on this question ; and when such was done, as a
by the people, who would have increased employment, and matter of expediency ; and when time state of the country
that increase in the demand would consequently lead to an required a remedy for the evils that existed, he considered Hon.
increase in the price of corn. Ho believed that no man Members perfectly justified in giving up protection and support-
could luny estimate the effects likely to be produced by the hig the present, measure. For himself he would say, thou,ell
present measures in favour of the agricultural tenantry of this be had supported the. sliding-scale, he bad never been ena-
country.—( Hear, hear.) Their feelings were estranged by moored of it. And it was the three years following 1842 d
the present law from the landowners of this country, It ap- that completed his conversion to free trade. lie had change
peared to him that the strongest argument for a change in our conscientiously, and had done so, as he believed, for the lecnees
policy was the necessity of the social condition of the country. of the country. Under all circumstances, he must support the
He could not conceive that men who had at heart the improve- . measure before the House.
ment of their fellow-countrymen would oppose these measures. i Captain BERKELEY said he had come into the House to
He could not but regret that in these days the science of poll support the agricultural interest, but nevertheless he bad al-
tical economy was not studied for the purpose of developing vraes voted for inquiry, and supported the Hon. Member for
the industry of the country. For, according to a political au • Wolverhampton in hie motion on the corn-laws. Ile desired in.
m hority of the greatest weight, it was to that end that all politi- quiry. and that was the reason he had always voted for
eel Governments should direct their attention. A good law any motion that went to that effect. Such had been his pre-
must most assuredly produce a good effect upon the condition of viol's course, But now that lie cats the Noble Lord he had
the labourer, and yet which of them would contend that that hitherto followed (Lord .Tohn Russell) juin with the Right
condition was a prosperous or a comfortable one at the present Hon Baronet ( Sir Robert Peel) on the other side, to carry out
moment, as regarded the tillers of the soil? Why it was a the measure of total repeal ; and when he heard the strong
common expression now-a-days, " It's a wonder how they live." ennui-mon sense of the Hon. Menilser for Sioekport on the ques-
- ( Hear, hear.) The case ef the agricultural labourers of this Lion, he must support them in time course they had taken. That
country was at the present moment similar to that of he believed was now the only safe, prudent, and expedient line
the peasantry of France in 1759, and he would of policy to pursue.—( Hear. )
ask whether it was patriotic, wise, or statesmanlike to Sir R. H. INGLIS said, notwithstanding the elaborate
oppose measures which had for their object the alleviation speech of the Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Vernon), he
of their present sufferings? What was the etlect of the I must adhere to the views on agricultural protection he had pro-
present restrictive laws upon the peasantry of England? In viously maintained. He ( Sir R. H. Inglis) had listened at-
the month of July, 1844, the then Bishop of Ely, in a letter tentively to that speech, and must say, notwithstanding all its
`.O the clergymen of his diocese, stated that the agricultural , professions, that the public virtue of the Hon. and Learned
- hatred ts Member must date itself from June 11th, 1845 ; for, on re.
_ _

(erring to what took place on the 10th of June, he found
that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman was one
of a majority of 254 who, considering that an abolition
of the corn-laws would prove injurious to the country, voted
against the proposition of the Hon. Member for Wolverhamp-
ton.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter.) He (Mr.
Vernon) was not the person to lecture Hon. Members who
voted with him (Sir R. H. Inglis) as to the course they ought
to pursue, seeing that the 1-ton. and Learned Member thought
as they did, no Conger back than the 10th of June last.—( Bear,
hear.) The Hon. Member for Perthshire (Mr. F. Maule)
had referred to larger rents having been obtained lately in cer-
tain parts of Ireland, though the Government measure was before
the public. The reason of that could easily be explained.
These parties were not yearly tenants, but took their farms from
parties who had held them under 19 years' leases, and who had
taken them at a period of great depression. It was, there-
fore, no wonder that an increase of rent had been obtained.
His chief objection to this measure was that it was
obtained for one class at the expense of another. The cost of
this experiment was enormous. The revenue to be lo,t in the
corn-duties was not less than 333,0001. The revenue that was
risked was 2,333,000/. This was a most grave and serious
consideration. There would be a loss of above 450,0001. to
the country. This would be absolutely and irrevocably lost to
the country in 1849. That was independent of the loss to be
sustained upon articles upon which the duty was only partially
reduced. There must be a great loss in the article of spirits,
unless there should be a large increase in the importation of
spirits, which would be a great evil upon the country.
The change which took place some years ago was forced upon
the tithe-holder, and therefore that Parliament should take
care that the bargain then made should not be violated. The
tithe-owner had to receive an unvarying quantity at varying
prices. ' could not participate in the improvements its
agriculture. They did not benefit him, and therefore Parlia-
ment should be very careful of his rights. How
could they reconcile this measure with justice
to the tithe-owner ? It was impossible to do so,
It had been said that the agriculturists are to be compensated
by contemporaneous measures. The measures, however, were
not contemporaneous. He thought the best mode of giving
compensation to tho landed interest would be to take off some
great burden on land at. once.--( Hear, hear.) He gave the
Right lion Baronet at the head of the Government every cre-
dit for purity of motive ; but while he did so, he could not but
regret the change which had taken place. He could not see
how the proposed measure could be a remedy for the temporary
evil which was deplored. He considered that this was an incon-
sistent measure. He believed that it was essential to the pro-
sperity of the country that the agricultural community should
be protected ; and, with this opinion, he should cordially sup-
the amendment of his lion. Friend.
Mr. CHILDERS was ready to support the Government
proposition, for he believed that a repeal of the corn-laws
oLbr
onuntdholi
tn twhwaiasss cna
soouclnhetsersay
pa.
aegx et
ofr ap orri
breadcdei n oa
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yn e,
would not rleepndeuta,cretrhatathhteet
priceiriaeavne r
atlrstumienisgtahanttyelanplart of the globe. At Odessa, it appeared that
bread was 'lid. per pound, which was decidedly higher than
the price of bread in Fngland, and he therefore be-
lieved that the passing of the present measure would not be
followed by any reduction in the price of bread..
In the month of October, 1843, whilst the price of corn in
London was 495. IQcl., at Marseilles it was from 51s. to 59e.
per quarter ; in the month of November it was 475. at Lone
don, whilst at Ostend it averaged from 50s. to 60s. ; and in
the month of December the price of corn was, at Marseilles,
from 535. to 00s., whilst at London it was only 455. 9d. From
these and innumerable other statis.ics, therefore, it would
appear that the principles of free trrde would not
affect the price of corn,' where the demand for
it was great. He could also show that the same results
followed with regard to wool, meat, end other articles. As an
agriculturist., he felt no difficulty in voting for the second read-
ing of the Bill—( Hear, hear )—and although he divided the
other night against a total abolition, yet he should prefer the
total and immediate repeal, did he not consider that the reasons
which bad been laid down by the Right Hon. Baronet, at the
head of the Goverment, for a temporary delay should be
conceded.
On the motion of Mr. R. COLLETT, the debate was
adjourned until this evening.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'clock.

The Earl of Derby, we understand, fully intends to
leave Knowsley shortly after the Easter recess for town, the
object the Noble Earl has for coming to the metropolis being
to vote with the Government in the division on the Corn-law
measure. The Noble Earl, from contiaued infirmity arising
from impaired health, has not as vet taken the customsry
oaths as a Member of the House of Peers since her Majesty e
accession to the throne.
THY; WEATHER—The papers front all parts of the
country notice the recent extraordinary change in the
weather from the mildness of advanced spring to the cold
and snows of winter. The railway trains and the coaches in
the north have been impeded by the depth of snow, and our
Newcastle correspondent states that on the railway to.
North Shields, between which place and Newcastle the dis-
tance is usually performed in twenty minutes, the trains
were delayed three hours. in many places the snow was two
feet deep.