The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-18 00:00:00

TEE 421111111,AL TI

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)

In reply tc a question from the Cuataw,
Mr. Charles Gray said, the General Terminus line would afford
better accommodation to the coal traffic than the other two compa-
nies, as they would have to traverse a considerable portion of the
town in bringing minerals from the south-east to the harbour.
lir. David Chapman, another member of the River Trust, gave
evidence precisely to the same effect as the previous one. He con-
sidered that the immense traffic of the harbour should in concen-
trated as much as possible, without, at the same time, incommoding
the general traffic, and this he thought would be best done by the
General Terminus scheme.

Mr. J. 11. Payne, of the Glasgow Custom house, deposed as to the
inconvenience to the Customhouse officers from the mineral traffic at
present on the quays. It was desirable to concentrate the mineral
traffic as much as possible. The General Terminus scheme would
do this the best, and the least incommodate the general traffic. As
proof of the great increase of the foreign trade of Glasgow, he woilld
state that the Customs' revenue, which in 1833 was 97.9001., was
now 589,000?.
The cross-examination of the witnesses elicited no point of a ma-
terial character beyond this.
Mr. Dunlop, merchant and iron master, examined, and deposed as
to the mineral traffic of Glasgow. The exports of coals in 1842,
1843, and 1844 were 130,000 tons. The iron during the same time
was 84,000 tons. The river steamers consumed 70,000 tons. The
General Termieus line, in his opinion, would supply the harbour 11
a better manner than the ether two schemes.
Mr. King was briefly examined as to the expected traffic. He
estimated it at 7,4811. 55., and deducting 1,000/., for working the
line, the residue would yield 6 per cent, on the capital the line would
cost. The expense of the line would be about 111,000/. The General
Terminus line would give all the accommodation that was required.
He did not believe there was sufficient traffic to support a second
terminus.
,Cross-examined—The powers in the Bill were to raise 200,0001.
He had not included harbour dues in the 3d. per ton. No doubt if
the Harbour Mineral admitted coal into their basin without dues,
while the others did, it would be an advantage, as parties would
always prefer the cheapest point.
The further consideration of the Bill was then adjourned.

EDINBURGH AND GLASGOW AMEND-
MENT AND BRANCHES.

Mr. Brunel was shortly examined on the gradient on the Queens-
ferry branch, which he represented to be quite practicable, and not
dangerous, at the close of which Use Committee adjourned at half-
past four o'clock till to-morrow at twelve.

GROUP XIV.
NORTH RENT LINE.

r. Vignolles' examination (continued from our Afternoon Edition)—
The station at Rochester would be more conveniently situated for
Rochester and Chatham than the South-Eastern station, both for
passengers going to Stroud as well as to London. At Chatham he
proposed to extend the area of the quays, and to pass on a level with
them. From Chatham the line ran on to Sittingbourne, and passed
under the military grounds, citadels, gun-wbarfs, and fortifications
of Chatham by means of a tunnel of 1,000 yards in length, while this
portion of the South-Eastern line was precisely the same as his own
of last year. Between Chatham and Sittingbourne the South-
Eastern line was two miles longer. From Sittingbourne there
will be a branch to Sheerness of seven miles in length.
From Sittingbourne the main line passed on to Faversham, with an
alternative line to pass through or avoid the town, and then pro-
eeetled direct to Canterbury, passing under Boughton-hill, of 1,500
yards in length, and across the Margate branch 01
the South-Eastern Company, a little below Hambledoun-hill.
From Canterbury, leaving the station at Nunnery-fields, the line
pole.' under the Dover-road, and in the Duin valley beyond that
road the line forked off, one branch going to Deal, and the other to
Dover. The distance of the line from Canterbury to Dover was
sixteen miles ; the South-Eastern line was a mile and a half longer.
The South-Eastern Company had no line from Canterbury to Deal,
excepting by going through •Dover. The line throughout only
crossed two public roads, one was at Canterbury, where
a bridge might be thrown across the road, the other
line was between Canterbury to Dover, and also near to a station.
The distance from Southwark-bridge to Dover was 73 miles. The
distance of the South-Eastern line from London-bridge would be
about 7714 miles, while his own would be 7212 miles. Measuring
from the Waterloo-road, his own distance would be 74 and the
South-Eastern's 78, while the ;distance from London to Deal would
be from Waterloo-bridge eight or nine miles longer by the South-
Eastern line than by his own. His estimate, including everything,
was 3,750,0001. Taking the whole of the lines of the North Kent
Company In the aggregate, and the whole of the lines of the South-
ia,tern in the aggregate, the price Or estimate was nearly the same,
Pettedly, from 32,000/. to 33,0001. per mile.
'this closed the examination in chief of Mr. Vignolles.
It was eeders.tood, however, that the parties were to exchange
detailed accounts of the estimates of each project.
The witne s was then cross-examined by Mr. Ausrtsr, on behalf
of the Soath-Eastern Company. The scheme he had in view from
1839 to I a 10, was a line from the Greenwich Railway to Chatham,
and in Is 13 he proposed to extend the line to Margate, and in 1844,
a branch to Chatham. .At the same time it was proposed to carry on
the line through Canterbury to Dover. The scheme before Parlia-
ment NV s for a Mae to Canteibery, avoiding the Brighton, and going
by way of Chatham. The original project was a line to Dover,but the
plans were net ready for pushing it thus far. The project was opposed
by the atmospheric Company, who contended that there wasno traffic
along the district, and Parliament negatived the Bill. The North
Kent Company come now for the first time for a Bill to make a line
to Dover. 'rile Bill is for making a line from Union-street to Dover.
There was plenty of room on the Borough side of Southwark-bridge,
but on the other side room was restricted, and Queen-street was an
exceedingly narrow and inconvenient thoroughfare. Union-street
was about 600 yards from the Greenwich station at London-bridge.
The latter point was nearer to the Royal Exchange by 300 yards
than the former. The area of the station in Union-street was con-
siffaably larger than the station at London-bridge. The short branch
for connecting the line with the South-Western Extension at the point
of intersection was 14 or 15 feet above the South-Western Extension,
but this difficulty was overcome by a short course within the limits
of deviation, and the junction was effected by a gentle inclination.
Theline was about 10 or 12 chains radius. The gradient was 1 in
200. The junction would be formed at Ewer-street. The great ob-
ject now was to get an easterly and westerly terminus in the metro-
polis. The line would be upon a viaduct as far as Peckham, and to
the junction beyond New-cross with the Croydon line the distance
would be three and a half miles. He proposed to have one train
passing along this part of the line every quarter of an hour, but it
must be remembered that the line passed over and not on the Croy-
don line. There would be four lines between Union-street and
the Croydon junction, and his estimate included these four. At
present it was not arranged how the junction should be formed.
at New-cross. The incline running down to New-eross would be I
in 74. The junction would be approached in a curve and in a cut-
ting. The depth of the cutting would be 12 feet, and the radius or
the curve, which would be 100 yards long, was 10 chains. The junc-
tion would be formed on the east side of the line, which would in-
volve a break of the atmospheric pipe, but the interval need not be
more than a couple of yards. At this point the South-Eastern, the
Brighton, the Croydon, and the North Kent traffic would become
melted. The. length of the Blackheath tunnel would be 1,900
yards, or a little more than a mile. The station would be at
the eastern end of the tunnel, awl another at the other end.
The gradient upon the main line was 1 in 132, and on the Woolwich
branch lin 100. The branch passed within 180 to 200 yards of the
Woolwich dock-yard and about 20 feet above the level of the ground
at the entrance of the clock-yard. The South-Eastern line was
hearer and upon a level, hut it was no advantage, because the line
would have to pass the High-street on a level.
The Committee adjourned at this point till twelve o'clock to-
morrow.

GROUP xv,

SOUTH - EASTERN (GODSTONE TO EAST

GRINSTEAD).
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)

Mr. MILLE". having called additional witnesses, he put in the assents
and dissents, anti this closed the case for the Brighton Company.
Mr. ALEXANDER, for the South-Eastern branch, proceeded to call
witnesses.
John Stenning, timber merchant, East Grinstead, was In the habit
of sending 6,900 tens of bark a year to the London tanners by land
carriage. lie received about 161. a load for it, but out of that the
carriage cost him from 40s. to 60s. a load. By the Dover line from
Godstone, when he got his timber there, the carriage cost
him but 6s. 6d. per ton delivered. ,lie sent about
1,400 loads of oak to London, and from 400 to 500
loads to Tunbridge a year. On that account he considered the
South-Eastern branch would be a great advantage to him and the
landowners. The coals consumed in East Grinstead were from 300
to 400 tons, and had to be brought by horse draught from London.
As many as 500,000 hop poles were sent to Maidstone and the neigh-
bourhood. The majority of the heavy goods were carried from East
Grinstead towards Godstone. The traffic to Three Bridges bore no
comparison. lie preferred sending by the North-Eastern, because
the Brighton line had no convenience for deliveryjof heavy goods, and
also he thought he was at less expense by the one than the other,
lie believed that the carriage from East Grinstead to Godstone
cost him alsout Gs., and he expected to save one-half of that if the
South-Eastern branch were constructed.
Mr. ALEXANDER proceeded to call other witnesses ; and
Mr. Row, counsel for the proprietors of three miles on the South,
Easte?n branch, and who are opposed to that branch, cross-examined
them.
The CoMMittee adjourned hearing further evidence, at four o'clock,
till to-ntorrow. •
Previous to adjournment, the Chairman expressed his inclination
to pass both lines.

Sub-Committee No. 2.
cszlatisronn AND IitTRY.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)
peit ion w, that the lands, Scc., in the parish of Little
The next
Henry were not described on the plans deposited with the clerk of the
y of Essex.
peace for the tour'
Mr. Shrubsole appeared in support of the petition.
The first allegation was, that Nos. 40 to 46 inclusive, and from 46
to 52 Inclusive, as well as frolZ 52 to 54, in the parish of Little IlennY,
were described as being in Great Henny.
Evidence was heard in support of the allegation, and the Com-
mittee found the same was sustained.
The next allegation was, that the owner of the field, No. 11, was
not named in the book of reference, whica was not sustained.
Another allegation to the same efiLct with reference to No. 27 was
,sustained.
Some other similar allegations were sustained, and several were
plcaloned.
The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow.

Sub-Committee No. 3.
szn7s':tlßD AND CAMBRIDGE EXTENSION.
In this cas: several asents far petitioners against the line apueared
bat the consideil
ation of the allegations were postponed until the
formal proof was sOcluced, which occupied the Committee the whole
day.

guy-Committee No. 4.
nrILICENIZEAr, LANCASHIRE, AND
CHESHIRE TUNGTION.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)

The petition of Mary Hine, Mary Ann Aiming, and others, con-
tained several allegations as to the non-insertion of their names in '
the book of reference, and non-serving
It appeared that the of notices.
property, on account of which the peti-
tioners represented thatof their names ought to have been in-
serted in the book ntly occupied by
John Amany and two sisters, Wicioe' Was
re both married. l(otices
had been served on the husbandswe of the two female
petitioners, but none had been served
rtadinretterence. It was ad-
games had not been inserted in the tookonofthemselves, and their
he book of reference
witted that a wrong name had been inse
had been served on
in respect of part of the property, but that notices h
time to
all parties concerned, the mistake having been
Serve notices on the proper parties. discovered in
tioaers, the
~,i witness was called to prove these facts.
and the
The Committee declared the standing orders not complied
In respect of other property belonging to the same pl with.
Committee decided that the book of reference was incorrect,.
Standing orders not complied with.
In another of the petitions against the Bill it was alleged that
" the railway was described" as passing through five fields in the
parish of St. 3,,lftry.on
.o.i,e whereas, four of those fields were in
_
11111,
the pario of St. 0.-ts met s.
Mr. Pally objected to the petition, as not stating what live fields
which were the four that were in the parish of
were alluded ti,, or
R.Oswald's.
soino discussion easued as to the suftloiency of the description, but
as it appeared that the numbers of the flelds were given in one of the
later allegations of the petition, Mr. Fria withdrew his objection, and
the petition was proceeded with.
After considerable discussion, ant after saveral witnesses had been
d
calle on oth sies, the Committee decided that, inasmuch as the
gelds in qubestiond ought to hare teen descried as in the parish of St.
Oswald's, the standing orders were not complied with.
The next allegation taken was, that a Mrs. Bolton, described in
the bock of reference as possessing premises numbered Nos. 206 and
207, was not at the time the notice was served the occupier of t
dhe
premises (a mill) No. 207, as she was marked on the plant and e-
ocribed in the book of reference.
Mrs. Bolton was called ar;d examined, and from her evidence It
appoared, that although she had been, in conjunetion with other pre-
/woke.. in the occupation of the mill marke No. 207, she h clis-
continue..l to hold the mill in question previously to the notiaced hay-
ing been ser;-ed upon her, and that she was now paying no rent
for it.
After a great deal :.,f argument from Mr. Pritt, in favour of the
Bill, and Mr. Elicombe, against it,
The CHAIRMAN decided that the standing orders had not, in so far
es the point in question was coi:perned, been complied with.;
The Committee then adjourned.

STANDING ORDERS' COMMITTEES.
ROUSE OF COMMONS.
Room No. 3.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)
BEDFORD AND CAMBRIDGE EXTENSION RAILWAY.
The object of this line is to extend the Bedford, London, and Rir•
iningham Railway to Cambridge. and to enable the promoters to sell
or lease the proposed line to the Eastern Counties Company. The
length of the line is 263 miles, and the estimated cost 360,0001.
Messrs. Burke and Co. are the Parliamentary agents ; Messrs. M.

A. Bortwlck and R. Stephenson the engineers ; and Messrs. Parker,
Hayes, and Co., the solicitors.
The usual evidence of the preliminary steps was then given, from
which it appeared that the required notice of the construction of the
line had not been given in all the counties through which the Eastern
Counties line passed, and this omission was reported by the Committee

. ,
to he a non-compliance with the standing orders.
'I he petitions against the line were then gone into.
Mr. PARK E, on the part of Mr. Pim, presented the first peti-
tion, one of the allegations of which was that the plans and sections
deposited in the Private BIll•offfee, and those deposited with the
Clerk of the Peace for the eounty of Cambridge, were not in eon-
formit? with the standing orders. Among other points it was al-
leged that the proposed line was marked at a certain point 4 feet
6 inches above the road, when it should have been 4 feet 6 inches
below. Another allegation was that there was an error intim pro-
moters* sections of 8 feet 9 at the crossing of a certainroad.
After a lengthened examination of witnesses on these points,
Mr. Bus.,lti said that he would not contest the allegation of the
continuous error, as he had ne explanation to offer, but he would
prepare himself when the Bill went before another tribunal to rebut
the evidence now given, if that could be done.
The Committee then decided that the standing orders had not been
complied with in the points alleged in the petition 4 to the errors in
levels. With regard to the alleged differe the sections de-
posited in the Private Bill-office, and those the clerk of the
peace for the county of Cambridge, there was ho difference in the
sections, but there were certain words emitted in the sections de-
posited at Cambridge, the omission of which the Committee did not
think of any importance.
Another petition, where the objections were nearly similar, was
then gone into. In some of the particulars the Committee were of
opinion that the standing orders were complied with, but in others
that there was a non-compliance with them.
The Committee at four o'clock adjourned till twelve o'clock on
Friday next.
- -

Room No. 9.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)
The Reading, Reigate, and Guildford Railway ; the Northumber-
land and Lancashire ; and the Shrewsbury and Hertfordshire, allowed
to proceed.
The Glasgow, Paisley, and Ayr (No. 6), not allowed to proceed.

THE SUN, LONDONI

'Under this state of things he wished to know if the English
labourer was treated as he ought to be ? The present state of
the law was a robbery on the English landlord, and a robbery
on the English labourer. Many thousands of Irish labourers
(and he did not blame them) came into this country at the
commencement of the harvest and obtained work. They re-
mained about two months, and then returned to Ireland with
the proceeds of their industry in their pockets. Was
that fair on the English labourer, who at the time
he expected that his wages would be raised by an
increased demand for labour, found that these men same into
competition with him and undersold him? They should hare
in Ireland such a poor-law as would compel the guardians to
find labour for these men, just on the same principle as it
was in this country under the Act of Elizabeth. The Hon.
Member for Stroud had asked for nothing more than the
English law was doing at that moment. He would call the
attention of the Hon. Gentleman to the following return :
In the year 1837, since the poor-law had been in cperation,
there were relieved in England, in the workhouses, 30,351,
and out of the workhouses, 258,367. The Hon. Gentleman
then went into an elaborate calculation to show that the
number of persons relieved without the workhouses between
the years 1837 and 1844 vastly exceeded the number relieved
within doors, and increased in each year. Now, did the
Right Hon. Gentleman disapprove of the practice or other-
wise ?(Hear, hear.) The effect, as every person knew, of
the out-door relief system was most beneficial to the
orking classes. It was a most merciful system for the
working classes, and was working for their good, and conse-
quently for the good of the community. Now if the system
was bad why should the Government not alter it ?—(Hear.)
Reference had been made to an absentee-tax, but what
tax, he asked, could be so good as a poor-tax, to be equally
distributed over the country? Now the English were called
on to perform a duty which really belonged solely to the
Irish proprietors. Returns before the House showed that
the only food for millions of the people in that country were
potatoes, upon which they were compelled to live. Were Irish
gentlemen satisfied with this state of things? 'Were they
satisfied that their countrymen should exist upon what Dr.
Corrigan well stated was the least nutritious article of food.
Were the protectionists of Ireland satisfied with this state of
things? He (Mr. Wakley) knew they were not. But they
should endeavour to improve this state of things. If the
law be not altered now, when will it be altered ? He hoped
he would hear the views of the Noble Lord. What were
his views of the poor-law in Ireland? He considered the
state of that law as most repugnant to the feelings of humanity.
There were thousands and even millions in Ireland who were
in destitution. He knew that the workhouses were not full,
but it was as well to starve out of the house as within it.—
(No, no.) He would say it was, for what was the dietary
why, including clothes it was only 2s. a week. In many of
the workhouses for necessaries, provisions, and clothing ; he
found that Is. sd. was the highest allowance, and then tere
was a penny a week left for clothing. If a man broke the law in
this country he got bread, and butter and coffee, to the ex-
tent of 6d. Under the criminal law a person in this station
was provided to the extent of 3s. 6d. and 4s. 6d. a week.
Indeed, in some of the criminal asylums, each individual
was an expense of 9s. 6d. a week, while in Ireland the whole
expense of a person in the workhouse was Is. 9d., and
in some cases only Is. 41d. There never was a
time when the landlords in Ireland were so called
upon to accede to a more liberal poor-law than that which
now prevailed. He would cite the authority of Dr. Corrigan,
a man of the highest authority in his profession, and who
had never written cn party politics. He was the physician
of the Warwick Fever Hospital and of several other of the
leading medical institutions of the country. That gen-
tleman had given his knowledge of what had occurred
within a hundred years, but he would in this instance
allude to the testimony afforded by the time since
the year 1817. At that time it had been suggested that
relief and emploe ment ought to be provided for the poor, but
their suggestions had been ridiculed. But mark the sudden
revulsion which had been occasioned, by facts. Why the
disease which had been predicted did occur in a much more
severe form than had been anticipated. The death of some
person of note created alarm, and immediately the strongest
precautions were adopted. The town was literally blockaded,
and the poor were deprived of work.
Sir J. GRAHAM was understood to say that he had read
the pamphlet referred to. •
Mr. WAKLEY said 'that he was sorry that he could see
no fruits of that reading in the measures of the Right Hon.
Baronet. If proper measures were not at once adopted dis-
ease and death would spread as wide as they had done be-
fore. The author said, with reference to the evil at the
time, it was an epidemic fever, the very worst evil that could
befal a country next to civil war. If it attacked one mem-
ber of a family it attacked all, leaving no one to struggle
against the common 'calamity. In Dublin alone in the
course of one year, in spite of all the efforts of wealth and
charity, the disease spread so much that 42,000 persons
passed through the • fever hospitals. All these evils
lie attributed in almost every case to want of fool,
or to the want of a proper quantity of food.
In a report which he held in his hand, drawn up by Dr.
Corrigan, in reference .to the epidemic of 1826, it was stated
that officers of health had been appointed in Dublin, whose
duty it was to see that all nuisances were removed, that the
houses of the poor should be whitewashed, and otherwise
kept clean. Money had been expended in that way, but
not a fraction was expended in relieving the starving poor.
Now, such was the case with the present Bill; and in his
(the Hon. Gentleman's) opinion, it would be better to pre-
vent the disease, and the spread of the disease, by giving
food to the people.—(Hear, hear.) The same report
stated that potatoes formed the staple article of tood with
the Irish people, and though the exportation was immense.
they were actually starving in the midst of plenty.—(Bear.)
It had reduced the wages of the labourer to the very lowest
rate, and when a scarcity occurred there waa,rmo descent in
the scale, and they must necessarily starve. Now he be-
lieved that every word written in that pamphlet was strictly
correct as regarded Ireland. But what were they doing in
that House ? To prevent the spread of disease they were
giving power in certain unions where disease existed to build
fever hospitals, where medicine, and medical attendance, and
nursing would be given to the patients; but what were they
doing in that measure with the view of preventing the origin
of disease? Nothing. With regard to that not a single
step had been taken. He next came to the last
positions advanced by Dr. Corrigan. It remained for others
than physicians to provide the means of prevention—not by
medicine, but by employment; not by raising lazzarettos fur
the reception of the sick, but by establishing manufactures
for the employment of the destitute. This was the true
mode of banishing disease from that country ; but, unless
they did this in the shape of a law imperative on the pro-
prietors of the soil, it would not be done. His impression
was, that as the landlords in England were obliged to sup-
port the poor, so should the landlords in Ireland be. He
could not conceive why it was that Irish gentlemen should
be contented to see the poor of their country in such a
lamentable state of destitution. Why, the English poor
were immeasurably better off than the Irish poor.
Mr. SPCARTHY—No, no.
Mr. :w AKLEY—Then why did they come over to• this
22
Mr. MCARTHY—For work.
Mr. WAKLEY—That argued that they were not able
to obtain it at home. He was very sure, that if
the landlords were compelled to support their own
poor, they would take care to find them plenty of woik.
Ard now, with reference to the most efficient mode for the
distribution of food in cases of epidemic disease, the plan
adopted in St. Catherine's parish, and which was applicable
to all towns, he considered the best. Tickets were
issued to such families as were considered to be fit
objects of relief, and no tickets were given unless at the
residence of the applicant, and they gave a right to relief for
the space of 14 days, at the end of which they were renewed
as the physicians and overseers thought fit. These tickets
were of two kinds, paid and gratis—the latter en-
titled the holder to a roll and a bowl of hot
soup. The former gave the same right upon the
payment of a penny, and it frequently happened
that those who held gratis tickets one week were enabled to
become holders of paid at the end of the term. In his previous
observations he wished to show that famine was the cause of
epidemic fever, which soon acquired a power of conta-
gion, and that the best preventative to that epidemic
would be wholesome food, and that, to prevent con-
tagion, hospitals to receive the sick should be erected.
The returns which had been received from twenty-seven
counties showed that disease had been caused by the failure
of the crop, and that in many instances the people had only
provisions fur a few weeks, but the Government said that,
until these provisions were expended, and they were desti-
tute, that they should have no relief; but when they became
ill from fever, produced by want of food and exhaustion,
and were really dying from hunger, they would give them
food. The picture was one of such a frightful nature that
every effort ought to be made by the Government and the
House to prevent epidemic and disease amongst a
destitute population. In this measure he found
nothing of the kind—it was quite inadequate for
the purposes intended. Then the Governmert said
they would take the responsibility of providing food for
the people of that country,, but he said they ought to throw
the responsibility on the law, because they would find it
greater than they imagined. He denied the statement
which was freely promulgated in England, that the Irish were
lazy, and that they were ragged, and lived in mud holes, be-
cause the hardest labour in London was performed by Irish
bricklayers. 20,000 bricklayers were employed in London,
amongst whom he did not believe theme were more than
1,000 Englishmen. These men received eighteen shillings a '
week, whilst agricultural • labourers within twenty
miles of London—in Buckinghamshire, for instance—
did
not receive more than Bs. 'Or 9s. a week, thus showing that
they shrunk from the severe', toil which the Irishmen per-
formed. Although the wages of agricultural labourers
within twenty miles of London were not more than one-half
of those received by the Irish bricklayer, they were incapeble
of performing the work, and, therefore, gave way to them.
This showed them—and the fact was confirmed by his inter-
course with these classes—that the Irish people were both
ready and anxious to perform any labour which they could
obtain. He wanted to give this employment; and he was
satisfied, if the amendment of the Hon. Member for Stroud was
carried, that it would give an impulse to the carrying out of
public works—works from the want of which Ireland was
now suffering—and consequently employment to the Irish
poor, who would thereby be enabled to provide food for
themselves and their families, and enjoy some of the bless-
ings of civilised existence. Millions of the Irish people
never tasted a mouthful of bread, and are compelled to
subsist on potatoes alone. Now this was disgraceful to a
civilised country ; and whilst ether classes were advancing
in civilisation—when luxuries were added to ther store almost
daily—when their whole condition had so much improved,
and was improving, that the labouring population of
Ireland were in as bad, if not in a worse condition,
than they were a hundred years ago. He said it was disgraceful
to the Governments which had from time to time been
entrusted with the affairs of this country (with the excep-
tion of the present Government), to have neglected the adop-
tion of measures which would have put an end to the
misery under which the poor of Ireland laboured, and which
would have improved their moral and physical condition.
Mr. SIIAW was extremely anxious to throw no impedi-
ment in the way of the Government with respect to the mea-
sure before the Houso. He wished to assure the Hon. Mem-
ber who last addressed the House, that they were not unwil-
ling to adopt a good poor-law, but that they did not consider
his definition of a good law correct. The nature of the
Englsh poor-law was to afford in-door, and not out-door re-
lief; and the establishment of the Irish poor-law, ten years
ago, on the same principle, had been more successful than
he anticipated, because by it the old abuses were cor-
rected, and 260,0001. a year judiciously distributed amongst
the indigent poor of that country. If the amend-
ment of the Ilonourable Member for Stroud (Mr.
rt-
system,
P. Scrope) were adopted, they would find some
districts in Ireland in which every fourth person would re
relief
which
guardiansit proposedwoultdongoitver.efuUsendreef
t r quire theese resent
rpoor-law
lief to any indigent persons who applied to them. He entirely
agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet that the importation of
oats
ought to be encouraged in the present but emergency,he
also considered that they might
buy them in the markets
of Ireland under circumstances which would not give an en-
couragement of the owners to raise the price. In theunion
with which he was connected in Dublin, rice was
frequently used during periods of scarcity. He would,
however, reserve any further remarks on this sub-
ject until •the Corn Bill was
.under discussion. The fever
hospitals would, in his opinion, be of great benefit to the
poor of Ireland, because the labours of medical officers would
be lightened, and those unions which had no medical officer •

would no doubt bare one appointed to attend to those aftlic-

tat with disease. He was afraid, however, when the
evil no longer existed that they would find it no easy
matter to withdraw the support which they had extended to
the poor in periods of scarcity and famine. He hoped the
Government would be allowed to go into Committee on the
Bill.

Mr. F. FFRENCH considered that the distress prevalent
in Ireland might he greatly alleviated, if not entirely eradi-
cated. by the construction of public works by Government
grants, lov which great masses of the people would be em-
ployed. -However, he was opposed to the conduct of those
works being placed in the hands of grand juries. Then if
they were in the hands of contractors the people would
not derive the benefit which they were intended to give.
He found by the return, that under this Act it was proposed
to give the Lord-Lieutenant the power of appointing the
board of health. They had had a good deal of experience as
to the working of the board of health during the existence of
the cholera. Application was made to them in some in-
stances where fever and cholera had commenced and no
notice was taken of it. On one occasion ae application was
made from a district stating that fever and cholera existed,
and an order or instruction was immediately sent down to
the grand jury to levy a sum of more than 2001.
The grand jury denied the existence of any fever or
choir ra, and, after some trouble, an investigation was made,
I and it appeared that the money would have been applied to
the erection of some religious establishment then in progress.
He thought that it was necessary to have some medical offi-
cer who could report whether measures were necessary in
certain districts.
Mr. OSBORNE said that he regretted that be felt it neces-
sary
to give his vote against this measure. He did not mean
to say that he actually opposed it, or wished to oppose it, but
he thought that a measure of this description ought not be
brought forward in the morning and with a thin house, hut
ought to be marked by some more substantive measure. The
Hon. Member for Finsbury had made one observation in the
course of his speech referring to the fact that a number of Irish
labourers came over here at the beginning of the harvest to
seek work. It was well known that in Northamptonshire
the harvest could not be got in but for the Irish labourers
that went there; and he knew that in one case fears were
entertained that the produce of a large hop-ground
could not be gathered, as very few Irish labourers had come
into that part of the country. Ireland was also an (agricul-
tural country, without manufacturers; and England was
almost entirely a manufacturing country, and it was dis-
graceful to the Government to have such a capital of labour
as there was in Ireland without finding employment for it.
He was painfully disappointed the other day at the cold
water thrown upon his proposition for advances upon the
railway undertakings in Ireland. The Limerick and Water-
ford Railway was at the present moment at a stand-still, in
consequence of the want of such assist ance as that which he
had suggested. The shareholders in that line had actually been
ready to throw up their rights if they could have been protected
from all responsibility, and it was the bounden duty of the
Government to make those advances which were necessary
for the promotion of those works and the employment of the
people, and he could not resume his seat without at the
same time urging upon the Ministry the necessity of making
these advances not as gifts, but as loans to the several com-
panies.
Mr. M. MILNES thought that the Hon. Member who
had just spoken had hit the nail on the head in stating
that the great deficiency in Ireland arise from the
want of resident landlords. If the gentlemen who were
landholders in Ireland felt only the same for their estates in
that country as they did for their property in England, they
would not lay their heads on their pillows without making
provision for the destitution which was so prevalent there.
He was aware that there must be a limit to the re-
lief afforded to the several individuals who were in
distress, and that the heavy mortgages on Irish estates
to a great extent interfered with the ability of Irish landlords
to render the assistance which their tenantry required.
But he believed that this difficulty might be obviated by a
Bill for making these mortgages less onerous than they were.
At any rate, sure he was, that in the present emergency
some additional means should be provided for saving the
poorer classes in Ireland from the distress to which they
were at present subject, for it had always been his convic-
tion, and it was so now, that every evil which was inflicted
upon Ireland would recur with double force on this country.
Col. RAWDON was of oFinion that if ever there was a
time for action the present was that time. He merely rose to
call attention to the very important returns that had been
laid before the House, and he begged to suggest that the
names of some of the largest landed proprietors in Ireland,
in the districts where the disease prevailed, should be at-
tached to the returns, so that public opinion in England
might be brought to bear on them. He had heard with
great gratification the sentiments of the Right Honourable
Secretary for the Home Department ; they threw a
new ray of hope on the people of Ireland, and he
hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would act on them—
(Hear, hear)—for, he should tell them, if they intended to
legislate for Ireland fairly, they should do so in an Irish
spirit.--(Hear, hear.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE would explain, in a few words,
his reasons for opposing the present measure. He felt cer-
tain, if they once recognised the principle of out-door relief
in Ireland it would become permanent, and they never would
be able to return to the present system. Now he wished to
know if it was fair, without an accompanying law of settle-
ment and other necessary measures, to endeavour by a side-
wind to overturn the entire social system as it at present
existed in Ireland ?—(Hear, hear.)
Lord EBRINGTON said ho could not support the present
measure, though at the same time he felt bound to say that,
in his opinion, some power should be given to enable the
guardians of unions to administer out-door relief to the sick
and impotent, and he believed they much needed it. On a
future occasion he would be prepared to call the attention of
the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department to the
administration of the poor-law in England, and in particular
to the system that prevailed in one union in Devonshire,
where the guardians lent out for hire the labour of the able-
bodied paupers in the house.
Mr. FI I'ZGERALD thought the powers given by the Irish
Poor-law Bill sufficient for any emergency which might
the Right Honourable Baronet, in his speech of that
night, had adverted to the difficulty he experienced from
the absence of any colleague more immediately connected
with Ireland. That was, of itself, a grievance to
that country. She had a right to be represented
in the Cabinet ; but it was of a piece with the
injustice which gave to her people PO limited
a Inumberlof representatives in that House. He thanked
the Right lion. Baronet for the manner in which he spoke
organ—(Laughter)—was (I.eau v‘g.ahst e r was glad to see that
othe
t 117e7Rni Lett, at 111
,Ca
Ministerialholi
assum-
ing a different tone towards Ireland. He could not help re-
ferring to the speech of the Hon. Member beside him, who
spoke of Ireland maintaining her own poor. He begged
to remind the Honourable Member that the Exchequer of
c cler L
England drained the whole revenues of the Irish country.
The speech which the !tight Hon. Baronet made gave him
great hopes, but he feared that he would live to see them
blasted. All he would wish was, that the Right Hon-
ourable Gentleman would act up to his profes-
sions. Let them act upon the suggestion of the
Member for Limerick, and refer Irish questions to an Irish
Committee; such a course would. give 'confidence to the Irish
people.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that if the system of out-door
relief were adopted in Ireland, it would amount to an abso-
lute confiscation of property,
Mr. P. S. BUTLER considered that it would be very im-
politic to saddle the board of guardians sith any more ex-
pense than that with which they had been already burdened,
as they were not able to pay many of the necessary ex-
penses they had already incurred. He would have great
pleasure in supporting the project of her Majesty's Govern-
ment.
Mr. P. SCROPE said that he did not consider that he
was to blame for the discursive turn the question had as-
sumed. Many Hon. Members who had spoken seemed to
think that the discussion should take place at some time
when the subject could be more fully entered into. He
should, therefOre, under those circumstances, withdraw the
motion.
The motion was then withdrawn.
Mr. FRENCH would wish to ask the Right Hon. Baronet
what officers were to administer relief under the Bill ?
Sir J. GRAHAM said that a Commis=arv-General should
be appointed to each district, and all application should be
made to him. He himself should be under the control of the
Poor-law Commissionsrs and Sir R. Kane.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.
Sir J. GRAHAM, in reply to Sir W. Somerville, said
that the erections for fever hospitals were only intended
to be temporary, the cases being always very various in
number, as many as 1.200 patients having at one time being
under medical care, whereas at another there were less than
twenty.
Captain OSBORNE had no objection to a special rate for
those medical officers, but he thought that some provision
ought to be made for their proper government.
Mr. WAKLEY was glad to hear the observations which
had fallen from the Hon. Member behind him, but he would
have been more delighted if there had been a proposition for
preventing fever.
After a few words from Mr. S. CRAWFORD,
Sir J. GRAHAM observed that the object of the Govern-
ment was to give relief and not money.
Mr. SHAW believed that under this law every necessary
was provided, and he thought it would be unw'll to open
the law wider, for it would be exceedingly difficult to draw
the line between the cases which required medical relief, and
those which were only in need of assistan a for food and
other necessaries.
Mr. SHAW could assure Hon. Gentlemen opposite that
the landlords of Ireland were not so negligent or remiss in
their duties to the destitute and afflicted as they would have
it appear.
Clause 3 was then put and agreed to.
Sir J. GRAHAM, in answer to an observation of Mr.
Wakley's, said that the intention of the Bill was not to meet
in itself all the distresses which might arise in Ireland.
Mr. P. SCROPE asked whether, if the head of a family
were unable to work by reason of sickness, and he were under
that clause admitted to the workhouse, whether his family
would be admitted also?
Sir J. GRAHAM—Most decidedly.
Clause 14 was then agreed to after some verbal amend-
ment.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he was most anxious that no
delay should occur in passing this measure, and he there=
fore proposed to fix the third reading of this Bill air to-mor-
row, when he hoped the Hon. Members for Stroud and Rochdale,
if they had any objections to make, would be prepared to
bring them forward. •
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said that he bad no objection to such
a course, as he would have a few words to say as to the sala-
ries of the medical officers.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Hon. Member would there-
fore make his observations on the third reading to-morrow.
The Out-Pensioners Services (Chelsea and Greenwich) Bill
was then read a third time.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter to Six o'clock.

SOUTH-EASTERN RAILWAY
COMPANY.—(THIS DAY.)
The usual half-yearly meeting of the proprietors of this
Company was held this afternoon at the offices of the Com-
pany, at London-bridge
James M'Gregor, Esq., Chairman of the Directors, pre-
sided.

The SECRETARY (G. S. Herbert, Esq.), having read the
advertisement convening the meeting, read the report of the
directors, from which we extract the following paragraphs:—
"The accounts of the South-Eastern Railway Company
for the half-year ending on the 31st January, 1846, show that
the gross receipts upon the South Eastern Railway and
Greenwich Branch have, during that period, amounted to
174,490/. 12s. ; that the working expenses have been
54,058/. ss. ; that the rent of the Greenwich Railway, the
rates, Government duty, and toll to the Croydon Company,
amount to 42,824/. 10s. 11d., making the gross expenditure
on the revenue account 96,882/. 15s. I Id. ; and the balance
carried to the profit and loss account 77,607/. 16s. ld.
"On the Ist September the directors carried into effect a
great reduction of fares, and adopted the system of granting
day tickets, and the directors have much satisfaction in
stating that these measures have had the effect which they
anticipated; there has been a very great increase in the num-
ber of passengers, great benefits have been conferred on the