The Sun.
London, England, 1833-01-22 00:00:00

GUILDHALL.

(Mr. HUNT'S Speech continued from our First Edition
of yesterday.)

But the answr will he, as has already been, by Lord
Althorp—" We can't afford it." What do we answer ?
Stop the supplies for Windsor Castle.—(Hear, hear.)
Take half a year off the Civil List—reduce the salary of
the Queen in case of her bushana's death.—(" Bravo,"
and loud cheers.) Make the Princes and Princesses
live for the same sum that the President of the United
Stites of America lives for—( Hear, hear)—and then Go-
vernment will find plenty of money in their coffers to re-
lieve the people from paying assessed taxes. Those
gentlemen who felt it occasionally rather unpleasant to
hear me will, I hope, not think I was out of order—
(Cries of " No, no")—because it is madness to call on
Government to take off taxes, without we at the same
time tell them the way of doing so.—( Hear.) Let Go-
vernment take the Aldermen's late mo-ion. The salaries
have been raised two-fold, let them now be reduced to what
they were before the French war. Unless we insi-t upon
these things—unless we say they shall be, we may meet
again and again, and they will only laugh us to scorn.
I reeret that those who have brought forward these reso-
lutions have not gone a little further. I regret they
should have gone bark so much from the petition
that was talked of at the last Common Hall ; I
regret that they have not gone on to ask fir the
suffrage to every m an. I go the full length with the
promoters of this meeting, but am sorry they have not
gone further. I hone, however, when we get the ballot, you
will not rest satisfied till the extension of the suffrage reach
all our fellow countrymen. The suffrage is only given
now to one million of persons throughout Eng_
land, Scotland, and Ireland, whereas, there ate
seven millions who have it not.—(Cries of " Sham-,
shame.") Will you now at ow me to say one word
for myself? In the last Parliament I was accused of
having opposed the Reform Bill. Now, I st sod up for
all the great clauses in the Bill—for the abolition of all
rotten boroughs, and fur the extension of the suffr ige ; but
some parts of the Bill I could not hut opp -se.—(Confusion.)
The parts of the Bill which I objected to were those
which required the 101. householders, before they were
enabled to register their claims in July and August, to
have paid up all their arrears in pat ish rates and
assessed taxes. That clause has disqualified many thou..
sande ; and the Member for the Borough this morn-
ing told me, that it had disqualified at least five thousand
there.--(Bear, hear.) I was for the disfranchisement
of the rotten boroughs, but I did not want to make all
England a rotten borough. I was not for those disgrace •
ful scenes which Mr. Nicholson has told you occurred
at Stafford. And although at the time I drew down
a great deal of odium for the opposition I gave to such a part
of the Bill, still, if it were to happen again to-morrow, I
could not, as an honest man, take another course —(Cheers.)
Gentlemen, a great deal has been said as to the Reform Bill
being a final measure; and on the last day of the session,
when the interference of the military at Ciitheroe waa disco-
vered, Lord Althorp stared that the people of England, ha-
ving got what they clamoured for, if they sought more
he would be disposed to concur with Honourable Gen-
tlemen opposite, and put clamour down by force.-
-(Murmurs.) But it would not be a final
measure. if the people only went on as they should do,
they would get what they now asked, and a great deal
more.—(Cheers.)
Mr. MANSELL then presented himself and said—
My Lord Mayor and Gentlemen,—Subjects like those
which have engaged already the approbation of
the different bodies of electors in the cliff rent parts of the
country can require at my hem; but little additional argu-
ment. But I only entreat you on this occasion to con-
sider deeply the general advantages which may be derived
by our 'promulgating throughout the country and the
world, what seem to us inseparable from the vote by ballot,
—triennial Parliaments, and the repeal of the assessed taxes.
What was it, my countrymen, which secured 8,000 voters
in this hall for Mr. Grote? Why, the prevalence of that
great principle of freedom which will become universal
when we have the vote by ballot. That will
enable them to exercise those privileges which
have been given them by the laws of the land. All our
feelings are aroused upon the subject, and call aloud for the
adoption of the vote by ballot. With respect to the assessed
taxes, they ought to be repealed, because they prevent the
poor man from sharing properly with his fellow- men
the light which the God of Heaven has given hiin, taxing
him in his poor and miserable dwelling. It may be asked,
on whom are the taxes to be placed ? I say, tax the man
that can bear it ; press the burden on the horse that can
bear it and the heat of the day, and not upon the poor
animal that seeks for pasture. The removal of the assessed
taxes will give happir eas to millions; the continuance of them
is a disgrace to any civilized land.—(Cheers.) It becomes you, it
becomes every man, to stand forward again and again, until the
finger of truth traces on the pedestal of your country that the as.
sessed taxes no longer exist.--(Cheers.) Triennial Parliaments are
just, but septennial ones are not so ; they give a premium to
corruption : otherwise, why would it be thought worth while
to give 5,0001, to represent one man in the House of Commons ?
If that is so, what will it be worth to represent millions in a
free Parliament ? Honours become splendid when they are

Mr.
NEWELL said —lt
is a source of great gratifica-
tion
to me to have the opportunity this day, in this
Hall, to address you as my fellow citizens. By the Re-
fit m Bill you ate recognised as the citizens of Lon.
don.—(Cheers.) The ancient title that qualified the
inhaititants of London to become citizens, is a tide
by which you are qualified to be electors of the city of
London—namely, the resichence of twelve months and a
day if scot and hit in the city of London. This privilege
has been tvrasted out of the hands of the freemen of
London, and restored to you ; and I am sure that
we shall live to Fee that rieht also granted to
you ro ekct the Chit f Magistrate, as you ought
to do, presiding Over you. If that w,s the case, we
emuld this day have the gratification of seeing that our
chief Magistra,e presided in lis corporate capacity over
t tis ',Hard tneetine in Common 11111.—(-Tear, hear.) By
'tie records of history, I find th.it th cit z us used to meet
with swords in hand end sbi.dds on arm, and they used
'co carry their measures by means of physical force ; but
civilization has taught us that we can do without physical
force by resorting to moral force. By the exercise of that
moral force we have obtained the Reform Bill, and it is only
now to exercise the same mom' force to brine into action
the good consequences of that Bill. One of those cone
quences is the shortening of the duration of Par iaments.
Front history we find that the worst Kings and the 'Hoc
despotic Governments had always infringed on the rights
of the people, by makinz Parliaments longer than they
ought constitutionally to he. Richard the Second made
them lenger than a year; Edward the Third passed two
Acts to make their duration only a year. Henry the
Eighth infringed on those laws. arid Charles the Second did
so too. When William and Mary came, the liberal tom of
that day found it necessary to pass an Act of Parliament to
limit their duration to three ye irs, and that was the com-
mencement of triennial Parllaments. At the com-
meecem n' of the reign of George the First, we hid
a Whig Admini.tration, hut not like that we hate
now. That Whig Administration was ever ready to
infringe on the rights anti liberties of tl e people. Sir Ro-
bert Walpole was the Minister of that day, and had a great
share in bringing about the Septennial Act, and there was
never a man—saving he whose statute (Pitt's) is now
in the h dl—that exercised more power to crush the
rising liberties of the people than Sir R. W .Ipole.—
(Cheers ) But what have been the consequences of the
Septennial Act ? We have h ht ibery and cot ruption to
a much greater extent than was ever known previously.
—(Cheers.) We have had a violation of the t ights of the
people, and the liberty of the subject has been destroyed.
We have had gagging Bills, a suspension of the Habeas
Corpus Act, and the destruc,ion of nearly all Clue rights of
the people ; in fact, such deeds have been done by Minis'ers,
that it was always necessary for them, just bet Ore the termina-
tion of each Parliament, to go down to the corrupt House
of C immins and ask Bills of Indemnity for their corrupt
deeds.—(Cheers.) Those Bills of Indemnity were the
best proofs of the bad deeds done through Septennial Par-
liaments. The pretences for passing the Septennial
Act were the Pope, the Pretender, and the Devil.—
(Loud laughter.) But as the Pretender has been dead some
time, there is nothing now to fear from him, for he has carried
his pretensions along with him As to the Pope, he has long been
politically an old woman, and nothing is to be feared from that
quarter. If you call into account the large sums of money you
pay to the clergy for laying the devil—(Laughter)—what fear is
there for any thing from his Satanic Majesty.—(Laugh-
ter.) All the pretences for passing the Septennial Act
are therefore now done away. Alderman Waithman, in
his letter which you have beard read, states that Breit
objections are made to two of the subjects which
you are met to discuss, and I suppose that the
Alderman has some doubts upon the shortening of
Parliaments. The fact is, he feels the sweets of being
elected for life, and he thinks he can do as he likes.
I should not wonder, if, instead of shortening Parlia-
ments, he would be an advocate for lengthening them.
I you will allow me to read the protest of thirty noble-
imn against the passing of the Septennial Act, I think you
will find it to the purpose. It runs thus—
Dissentient,

1. Because we conceive that frequent and new Parliaments
are required by the fundamental Constitution of the king.
dom, and the practice for many ages (which manifestly appears
by our records) is a sufficient evidence and oof of is Con-
stitution.

2. Because it is agreed, that the House of Commons must be
chosen by the people, and when so chosen, they arc truly the
representatives of the people, which they cannot be so properly
said to be, when continued for a longer time than that fur
which they were chosen ; for after that time, they are
chosen by the Parliament, and not by the people, who are
thereby deprived of the only remedy which they have against
those who either do not understand, or, through corruption,
do wilfully betray, the trust reposed in them ; which remedy
is, to choose better men in their places.

3. Because the reasons given for this Bill, we conceive,
were not sufficient to induce us to pass it in subversion of so
essential a part of our Constitution.

These are reasons given by thirty independent
liberal noblemen, at the passing of the Septennial Act,
against it, and time has verified their truth.—(Hear,
hear.) With these few observations I shall beg to
move the adoption of this petition :
....

TO THE HONOURABLE THE COMMONS OF THE
UNITED KINGDOM OF GItEKI: BRITAIN AND

IRELAND, IN PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED,

THE HUMBLE PETITION OF HIS MAJESTY'S DU.
TIFUL AND LOYAL SUBJECTS THE LIVERY.
MEN AND HOUSEHOLDLRS, ELECTORS OF
THE CITY OF LONDON, ASSEMBLED IN THE
GUILDHALL OF THE S .ID CITY, THIS 2IsT
DAY OF JANUARY, 1833, THE RIGHT HO-
NOURABLE THE LORD MAYOR IN THE
CHAIR,

MOST itrispECTf ULLY SiIoWETII,
That your humble petitioners, while they express their grati.
tude to his Majesty for having graciously given his assent to the
Act for making a Reform in your Honourable House, perceive,
nevertheless, the urgent necessity of beseeching your Honourable
House to pass an Act to repeal the Act commonly called the
Septennial Bill.
'That it was declared, in an Act passed in the sixth year of the
reign of King William and Queen Mary, that " Whereas by the
ancient laws and statutes of this kingdom, frequent Parliaments
ought to be meld ; and whereas frequent and new Parliaments
tend very much to the happy union and good agreement of the
King and people;" that on this express ground, an Act was then
passed to confine the duration Parliament to the term of three
years; that in the first year of the reign of King George the
First, under pretence of the existence of a nbellious Popish fac-
tion, a Pailiament which had been chosen for three years, did,
without any appeP., to the people, choose itself to sit for four
years longer ; and an Act, now called the Septennial Bill, did
continue the usurpation b, enacting that Parliaments should be
of seven years' duration f it the future ; and that this usurpation
has beell continued until the present day.
Tnat in the year 1793, a petition was presented to the House
of Commons by the Honourable Charles Grey (now Earl Grey)
praying, amongst other things, " That the duration of Par-
liaments might be shortened ; because such shortening tended to
produce a happy union and good agreement between the
King and people ;"
that, nevertheless, the aforesaid usurpation
was still continued ; and that, as there can be now no pretence
relative to a Popish faction ; as there can be no ground whatso-
ever for continuing this usurpation, which tends to the contrary
of a happy union and good agreement between the King and
people; as there can be no motive now for continuing this usur-
pation, other than that of lessening the influence of the people,
and finally giving them Masters instead of Representatives ;
and as your humble petitioners would led deep sorrow in be-
lieving that such motives could exist in your Honourable House,
they hope and pray that your Honourable House will be pleased
to proceed, with as little delay as possible, to the repeal and total •
abrogation of the said Septennial Bill • so that the present Par.
liament may not sit for a longer time than three years.
And your petitioners will ever pray.
Nuw, I sin pleased wan the prospects of success on this
occasion, for I find that Earl Grey has never deserted his
flag. He will stand by his standard which he hoisted
when a young man, and therefore we may have confi-
dence that he will now put in practice that which he
prayed for when a young man.—(Cheers.)
Mr. SauL—ln seconding this resolution, which I most
cordially
do, I beg your attention to the latter part of
the seutiments expressed in that petition. I am
delighted to see it existing here this day between
the old and new constituency in Lifidou—may that long
exist, and be perpetuated for the best purposes, and
for general benefits. It is not necessary for me,
and I will not trespass on your time, to re-
peat the arguments you have heard ; but I am
delighted at the distinction that no longer exists.
I glory in the citizen-freeman, but I detest the name of
Liveryman..(Htar, hear.) I trust that the distinc-
tions we have known will not be much longer per-
petuated in any degree—(Loud and continued cheers)—
and I hope we shall soon accomplish our object in the re-
generation of the country, and in establishing it on that
footing which secured and gave value to all the insti-

tutions and privileges of Englishmen. I conclude
by seconding the adoption of the petition which has been
read.
Mr. SCALES then came forward and said—Gentlemen—
This is the first time that I have had a right to appear be-
fore you on these hustings as a freeman of the city ; I•C••
cause, you know, I was not one of the Livery. I was not out'
of the privileged order, and I was here only on sufferance.
Gentlemen, the three propositions that are before you
are now pretty well understood by every one of us,
but the arguments that are made use of on the other
side are somewhat of a different nature. Persona
have said if we deprive the Ministers of the taxes, we shall
embarrass them, and perhaps turn them out of office. Now,
I sin very glad to hear this, and I hope the time will
come when the people of England,will resist payment of
taxes, anti embarrass Minister,, and cause them to
change. That, in my mind, is the very best feature
in this meeting. Gentlemen, can you poasibly
imagine tat England will ever he in want of Minis-
ters ?—(Loud cheer..) No, no—any more than of
B shops and Parsons.—(Laughter.) If we defeat the pre-
sent, I hope sincerely R+ forming, Ministry, by urging the
repeal of the taxes, we can have a Tory Adminiatra •
tion, and than we shall have two teat e, and turn them
out also.—(Loud cheers.) Did the Ministers ever consult the
people before they imposed any particular tax? Have they
ti,ked us whether it would embarrass us to pay twice as
much as we were bound to do ? Have they consulted me
whether it woul, he pleasant for me to pay twice as much
as my neighbour ?—(Cheers.) And yet this is just what
I have been obliged to do for 30 years. This is one of
the little petty persecutions which I have suffered from
this corporation —(Giteers ) But before another year
the game shall be up, and I shall gain it —(Cheers.)
They make use of this sy-tent of ballot at the East India
House and the Bank of England according to Mr. Wil-
liains's statement. Why, I should like to know, are these
men to i.ave these great benefits and privileges, and to be
shielded in giving an honest vote, and net the poor man ?
They cannot say, Gentlemen, that this is a radical measure ;
we borrow it from the 31inisterialists themselves. All
that the Radicals want is to lie a little more aristo-
cratic. The fact is, the more you are abused, he the
more determined and strenuous for its support ; for
he assured, it is for the great benefit of pout self and
family.—(Cheers.) The reason rite Tories abuse it is
because they know it wi'l be daneerons ro the improper
power they pot.sess. How has t very MAO nho has advo-
cated the subject of Reform been assailed? How have I
myself been ass tiled? Penecution agrees with my character
—it invigorates my health,—and exhilarates any spirits
—you never find any blue devils in my house ; if I
tve any comp) int to make I come here, but I don't
an ,r 1 at my own fireside.—(Laughter, and cri s of
" Hear, hear.") I participate most cordially in the unani-
mity that prevails at the meeting. The Septennial Act
is one of the words which are made use of to cozen us. What
would an old man say to it ? He would ask what it was, and
so would a hundred others. The law is wrapped up in dark
terms and nonsense. As an instance of that, I would state that
when I was tried for an assault, which I no more committed
than any person present, " Oh," said the Judge, "if you
had pleaded 'mollitur manum imposuit,' it would havebeen all
right."—(Loud laughter.) I spent seven years at school in learn.
ing Latin, but as I did not like it, I made no hand of it ; but if
I had thought that a knowledge of it would have saved me
from paying 3001., I would have learnt it, and I should then
have known that' monitor manum imposuit,' made into English
was, that I had only laid gentle hands upon him.—(Laughter.)
It is contrary to the laws of our country that they should make
use of those expressions, that are not comprehended by the
people. Gentlemen, the Reform Bill is said to be by some a
final measure. I recollect that when I first heard this
I said, the Reform Bill a final measure! How can
you ever have a final measure in making the laws
or the wants of the people? You must make those
laws, and alter them, according to the wants and
wishes of the people.---(Loud cheers.) Why, if the Re-
form Bill is to be a final measure, it will be like " a
wedding without a bedding."—(Roars of laughter.) Why,
Gentlemen, if we are to have the Reform Bill only, it is
like being invited to toy Lord Mayor's feast, and being
compelled to stand beyond yon rail, where you can never
taste any of the good things that are before your eyes.—
(Loud laughter.) But you may he quite sure that when
his Lordship sends me an invitation I shall jump over
the rail—(Laughter)—and if the Ministers don't take care
we shall jump over tie rail to get rid of some of the bur-
dens that they have imposed upon us, and I myself shall
take care to jump pretty high, and pretty far, to get rid
of some of it.—(Loud cheers, and laughter.) The Re-
form Bill, if it means anything, means this, that it gives
the people representatives which they would never have
had.—(Hear.) Suppose I were brought into any Court
of Justice for having refused to pay certain taxes that, I
conceived, to be improperly imposed on me. I would
subpcena the Ministers themselves, to know if they were
properly imposed on me.—(Cheers.) Then on their
oath they would have to say they were or were not.—
(Cheers.) It is the law of our country that the taxes
can only be imposed by the representatives
of the people, and, therefire, I would subpoena my Lord
Grey into court on his oath. I would say, here is what
you said on the introduction of the Reform Bill. Now
give evidence here, and say whether this man had those
taxes imposed on him by his own representatives.—(Loud
cheers.)—Gentlemen, don't let us be alarmed and afraid
about troubling the Ministers --(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
If you persevere, and are as unanimous us you are to. day,
your voice must be heard in the House of Commons ;
and if one tax is not sufficient to be repealed, then call
for abolishing others.—(Cbeers.)
The Loup MAYOR begged to observe that, as he made
no contract to give the meeting candles, he hoped that
while it was daylight the proceedings would terminate.
Mr. STACEY came forward to propose the petition re-
lative to the ballot as follows :—Gentlemen, I assure you
that his Lordship's hint shall not be lost on me. It is,
besides, extremely agreeable that the gentlemen who have
preceded me have, by their remarks, spared you the in-
fliction and me the trouble, of making a long speech.
Without the ballot, all we have hitherto obtained
will be comparatively valueless. It was the corner-stone
of Reform. The present system of soliciting for votes is
a part of the old feudal timts, when the mind and tte
person of a vassal belonged to the Lord or Baron. In a
subject of so much importance as time exercise of a fran-
chise to send persons to the House of Commons to decide
on the fate of the country, it was not to be tolerated that
prisons were to be compelled to vote either by bribery, by
threats, or even by the influence of private friendship.
Shall we, after the experience we have had of the con-
duet of men exercising irresponsible power, do as the
leading Journal wishes us, and leave Ministers to do as
they please? Another most modest observation of the
leading Journal to-day is, that our meeting to-diy is ill
timed—that any discussion on the ballot is premature.
Why, the Times has been arguing against the ballot
for weeks. It is only ill timed when we decide against
them, and ask for the ballot.—(Hear, hear.) I will
now read the petition for the repeal of the ballot, which
I beg to move the adoption of.—(The petition appeared
in The Stan of yesterday.)

Mr. FRANKS at this late hour would not take up the
time of the meeting further than by saying he thought the
petition an antidote to the evil, and he most cordially
seconded the resolution.

The resolution was carried unanimously.

Mr. WILKINSON would not occupy the time of the
meeting respecting the assessed taxes, except by observing,
that if Government cannot do without them, house-
holders cannot afford to pay them. I will now read the
petition, and hope the meeting will approve of it. If what
you seek be carried into effect, the electors for Members to
serve in Parliament will at least be three-fold more than
they are at present.

The Loitn MAYOR then put the question, and the pe-
tition was unanimously adopted.
Mr. WILLIAMS then came forward and stated, that
there were two other resolutions to be put, and he would
merely read them, in orde► that the meeting might not be
detained :

4. That George Grote, Eq., be requested to present the peti-
tion for the Ballot; Sir John Key, the petition for the Repeal of
the Assessed lazes; and Mr. Alderman Wood, the petition
for the Repeal of the Septennial Act, and that each of them be
also requested to bring in a Bill forthwith to accomplish the
object of the petition intrusted to his care.

_ .....
Mr. WILKINsoN seconded the motion, which was una-
nimously adopted.
Mr. HUNT suggested the alteration of one word. It
was not now necessary to " request" their representatives
to advocate their rights, and be would therefore propose
that the word " instruct" be substituted for request.
The amendment being approved of;
Nit.. Alderman Wuon presented himself to the iniet-
ing....Witb regard to the request or instruction, it is