The Sun.
London, England, 1870-03-16 00:00:00

BAKEHOUSES BILL.

The second reading of this bill was postponed for a fort-
uighi.

ELEMENTARY EDUCATION BILL

The adjourued debate on the second reading of this bill
was resumed by

Mr. WINTERBOTHAIf, who said that every day that had
passed had only heightened his regret that the education
question hail been taken up by the Government during tip
present year. The question was far more difficult than
tne Dun Land Bin, and could not, he was afraid, be
dealt with like that, as the present measure would touch
nearly every home in the kingdom, and impose taxes which
would press hardly upon some people, and, moreover,
because it would grate harshly on the religious feelings of
a great number of her Majesty's subjects. He thought
it was but right that the opinions of the
people should have been asked whether they
were in favour of the propositions of her Majesty's
Government before it was sought to give them the force
of an Act of Parliament. He doubted much
whether the Government were in possession of
the necessary information to enable them to say
that the great bulk of the population were in favour
of the scheme of education which they had brought
forward. He denied that the public faith was pledged to the
system now in force. If the bill passed, there would be
an efficient school accessible to every child, The hon.
member contended that, although unintentionally the
framer of the bill had trampled on some of the most
cherished convictions and the deepest feelings of
half the people of the land. He held that the
statesman could not afford to ignore the sectarian preju-
dices of the people, if they chose to call them so. He
thought that as a Nonconformist he had a right to say
that they especially objected to the clause in the bill
which allowed school boards to decide as to the religious
teaching. It would revive sectarian animosity in places
where it was dying out, and it would tend to revive the
Church-rate controversy. The bill, in fact, on that point
would be, instead of a blessing, a curse. There
would be endless contests in the rural parishes,
but under the influence of the parson there was
little doubt which way the decision would go.
The reason why denominational schools were objected to
was that there was a fear of proselytising, but
in his opinion the fear of that influence was much ex-
aggerated, and he believed that protection could
be be given against it in most cases by
a fair and earnest conscience clause. He
looked with great regret upon the illiberal spirit in
which Dis Ant was treated by many, and that had intensi-
fied much of that ill-feeling which existed. Dissent was
treated like the cattle plague, to be stamped out. Yet
notwithstanding all this, it had increased and was in-
creasing, and would go on so ; but because that was so, he
did not see why it should be treated with such indignity.
In the present bill those who differed from the Church of
England had much to complain of, and he did
not think the provisions of the bill were such
as could give them the slightest hope that any good
would ensue from the passing of the present measure. He
objected to it most strongly, and the more so because
the denominational 'schools called into existence by it
would in effect be to create an Established Church in
every school, a proceeding he had the greatest objection
to. He hoped the Irish members would not
countenance the present bill, because they had
in their own country the best system of education
it was possible to devise, and he did not think a greater
blessing could be given to this country than the adoption
of the Irish 'stem therein. He Looked with the greatest
confidence on sound secular education, and he denied that
it could in any way stand in the way of religious instruc-
tion. The Dissenters asked for nothing else but even.
handed justice and fair equality. (Hear, hear.) They had
done the Government great service, and he did re-
gret that, from the speech of the right hon. gentleman,
last night he had to come to the conclusion that there
was to be no concession. He claimed for those who were
in favour of secular education as deep and true reverence
for the Bible as any set of men on earth, and regretted
that the right honourable gentleman had treated
those who supported him, and who dissented from the
teaching of the Established Church of England, with such*
injsustice ; but, notwithstanding that, they would, he was
sure, not fall off from their ffilegiance to the Government.
The wrong might be committed, but the injustice would
not be the less keenly felt or bitterly remembered.
Lord R. MONTAGU at some length replied to the argu-
ments advanced by the previous speaker. It had been
objected to religious teaching that it would create strife,
but he supposed that strife arose from persons setting up
too stoutly for their opinion. Religious education, in his
opinion, with the strife which might arise was better than
the excluding of religion from the school in order to escape
from that strife. He argued that they could not produce
any moral impression by teaching the art of reading' writ-
intr. and arithmetic. and other secular subjects.
Lord ROBBRT MONTAGU approved of the measure as a
tribute to the denominational system.

Mr. H. B. SAMUELSON supported the rchome, deeming it
a great advance on all previous attempts at legislation on
the same subject. He would rather have the present bill,
with all its tendency to foster sectarianism, than have none
at all.

Mr. B. IlorE admitted that the bill might be susceptible
of amendment; but to oppose it at its present stage would
only be the work of a disappointed and discontented fac-
tion.

Mr. MIALL denied that any sectarian doctrines were
taught in Dissenting schnols, so far as he knew.
a .4 A • -

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the present
measure was framed in a spirit of fairness and gratitude to
the authors of the voluntary principle. lie confessed him-
self unable to understand the reason for Mr. Dixon raising
the question in this particular shape. Generally such
au amendment was a mark of hostility to a measure;
but he could not impute any such intention as that
to the bon. member, for the principle which he had selected
was, as compared with the main scope and body of the bill,
of a minor character. Referring to the action of the
school boards, he iemarked that in whatever way the
majority might determine, there was sure to be a
minority that would he dissatisfied. This was a state of
things inseparable from freedom. He admitted that there
was much to be said against such a system ; but what sys-
tem could ingenuity devise for a solution of the education
problem against which much was not to be said? With
regard to the disposition of the Government to meet
the wishes cf the various sections of the House,
he ensured them that, instead of clinging with
dogged tenacity to any particular view, they would
rejoice if any gentleman could show them something that
would better promote peace and concord.
On the motion of Mr. HAncounT the debate was ad-
journed until Friday, when it was understood it was to be
brought to a close.

The remaining business was disposed of, and the House

adjourned.