The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-23 00:00:00

BILLS

The Duke of WELLINGTON moved that these Bills be
read a first time and printed.
The Bills were accordingly read a first time, and ordered to
be printed.

SEES Of, ST. ASAPH AND BANGOR.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented a petition
against the union of these sees.
BISHOPRIC OE MANCHESTER.

The same Most Reverend Prelate pre—sentedapetition praying
that a bishop might be immediately appointed to the newly-
established see of Manchester.
THE CORN BILL.
The Marquis of NORMANBY presented a petition from the
Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses of Kingston-upon-Hull,
praying their Lordships to pass without delay the Ministerial
Corn Bill. The same Noble Marquis also presented a petition
from a town in Ireland, praying for the legalisation of tenant
rights in that country, intimating, at the same time, that he did
not thereby VI ish to express any opinion upon this very difficult
subject.
STATE OF CRIME IN IRELAND.

The Marquis of NORMAN BY then proceeded, amidst
cries of "Order," for the purpose of asking for a return of the
murders, and attempts at murder, in Ireland during each month,
commencing from the Ist of July in each year, distinguishing
the hours of day or night at which such outrages were
stated to have been committed by the constabulary force.
He felt it necessary to ask for the attention of the House to
this subject, the more especially as he intended to make a few
observations upon the conduct of her Majesty's Ministers, in
connexion with the Bill which had lately passed this House,
and to the language used by the Right Hon. Gentleman at the
head of her Majesty's Government in another place, in which
he had been personally alluded to. It did so happen, that
about six weeks after the session had commenced, and when he
was unavoidably absent, a Bill was introduced into this House
—called by the opponents of it, the Irish Coercion Bill, and
by those who supported it the Protection of Life (Ireland)
Hill—and no doubt it had been supported by many of his
Noble Friends who had had a long experience of Ireland.
He would not have deemed it necessary to have alluded to
this measure now, but a circumstance which had since oc-
curred compelled him to do so. No man could more deeply
deplore than he did the increase of crimes of
this description, or that Ireland should be made the
subject of such a measure as this, and at a time too when of all
others the country most needed the united sympathies of both
Houscs of Parliament. Now he should say that no informa-
tion that had reached him as to the state of Ireland was sech
as in his opinion to call for this measure, and he was far from
thinking that it was one which would reach the evil complained
of. He did think it rather extraordinary that her Majesty's
Ministers should have been of opinion at the commencement
of the session that this measure was necessary, and that they
had since had reason to change that opinion, although some
such measure had been alluded to in the speech which her
Majesty's Ministers had advised her to deliver from the throne
at the opening of the present session. He considered that a
timely display of vigour was the most efficacious check upon
crimes of this nature. He was still of opinion that a system-
atic, steady perseverence in the administration of the law would
have been amply sufficient to check these crimes. Of this
he was sure, that of all the courses which could
have been taken, and one which seemed to unite
all the
evils which could possibly be combined in a
measure, was the course which had been taken by the Go-
vernment on this occasion—an occasion when they adopted
a system of tardy, meddling coercion, conceding, with feeble
hesitation, their approbation of extraordinary powers, while,
at the same time, an efficient administration of the law of the
Constitution would have been quite sufficient for all purposes.
There really seemed to him something of this carelessness at
the time when the Bill was first introduced to their Lordships.
He believed that five weeks had elapsed from the period of
her Majesty's speech till the measure was introduced. Even
then it came in with all the humbling defacts in its construc-
tion which have marked the practice of the law department of
the Irish Government. At last the Bill was sent down to the
other House. He could not then dwell on the tedious nature
of its passage through that House. He knew the difficulties
in which the Government were placed there. He thought the
ignorant might imagine that the delay which took
place in that House arose from indifference to crime.
e Bill
of the Government would come into operation just at
the time when the almanacks told them that there was no
night at all. What would be the impression of the Iri •
sh people
when they saw that a Bill bearing the title of Protection to
Life and Property (Ireland) Bill was postponed to a Bill which
was intended to regulate the price of certain articles of con-
sumption? The impression of the Irish people would be, that
they had been neglected. He believed that all parties in Ire-
land Isere against the passing of the Bill. He had moved for
returns mentioned in his motion, because all the crimes which
the lion. Gentleman at the head of the Government had men-
tioned in his speech, in proposing the Bill, had occurred in the
day time. During the time that he held office in Ireland
under the Administration, the circumstances of the country
were more favourable than they were under the Administra-
tion of his two
to contend with, ari arising out of the Catholic question,
-
which is
e had notsiHe
must inform their Lordships,
in answer to what had been said, in reference to himself by a
Noble Lord, that he never took all the credit of the state of
things during his administration, as arising from the mode in
whieh he dig.charged his daties. All he could claim wii

zealously endeavouring to avail himself of the favourable cir-
cumstances which his predecessors had not. In 1835 the great
point he had to consider was, whether he should carry into effect
the provisions and powers of the measure under which his two
predecessors had acted, and he considered the course he had
taken on that occasion was the correct one. He, therefore,
would say that the discovery on the part of the Right Hon.
Gentleman was of a very strange description, if he had lately
discovered that the line of conduct he had pursued for twenty
years was not only inexpedient but unjust. The Right Hon.
I Gentleman had availed himself of the Easter recess to make
that discovery, and he (the Marquis of Normanby) under-
stood that this measure was to be postponed till
after the Whitsuntide recess, and he hoped that he
would have also availed himself of that recess, and speedily
come to the conclusion that the measure ought not to be pro-
ceeded with—that he might, in fact, come to the conviction
that unnecessary coercion was net the way to inspire confidence;
that it was not at the time to which he alluded, that it never
had been, and that it never would be, as long as human na-
tare was what it always hail been. But to what would the
argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that unnecessary
coercion was beneficial merely on account of the fear which it
was calculated to inspire—to what conclusion, he would ask,
would that lead ? He would say, that there was no despo-
tism—no autocracy provided ; it was only administered in a
particular manner, which might not he justified upon :those
grounds which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made use of on
the occasion alluded to. Ile (the Marquis of Normanhy)
would therefore say, that this inference was not justified in
point of fact. and that it was dangerous in its general applica-
tion. And if that was really the sentiment of the Righ• Hon.
Baronet, they could only rejoice that it was not the sentiment
of a strorg Minister, backed by the majority of nearly a hun-
dred. He (the Marquis of Norwianby) felt it necessary to
bring this subject bef,,re their Lordships in justification of the
conduct of himself arid his party ; and he felt it necessary, before
he sat down, to ask the Noble Earl opposite whetlier
it was the intention of the Government to proceed with this
measure.—( Hear, hear. ) He felt certain that it was neither
the desire of their Lor& hips nor the country, that the Bill
should be held rap in its present state of suspended animation.
If it was the intention of the Government to proceed with the
measure, let them at once meet that opposition which was
awaiting it elsewhere. He contended that it was trifling with
the country, if they did not at once proceed with or withdraw
this measure; but he believed it was not the intention of the
Government to proceed with it this session. He ought to apo-
7aseise to their Lordships for having thus occupied their time in
reference to a Bill which haidpassed their Lordships' House, but
he was anxious to make the statements which he had made, in
justification of his conduct with reference to Ireland. He
hoped, in conclusion, that the Noble Earl opposite would in-
form their Lordships what was the intention of her Majesty's
Ministers with respect to this measure.—( Hear, hear.)
Earl ST. GERNI ANS said it was quite unnecessary for the
Noble Marquis to have stated that he was absent from the
House upon the occasion he had alluded to; for inde-
pendent of the regret which they all felt that the
Noble Marquis should have been absent, he thought
that the Noble Marquis's absence sufficiently accounted
for his not being acquainted with the causes in which this
Bill had originated. In the autumn of last year the crime of
murder, and attempts at murder, had become so lamentably
frequent, that it became absolutely necessary to grant ad-
ditional powers to Government to repress it; and those powers
were not asked for until at the powers then at the disposal of
Government had been employed to meet the evil without suc-
cess. It was with that conviction upon the minds of her Ma-
jesty's Ministers that they hail deemed it their duty to advise
her Majesty to call the attention of both Houses c f Parliament
to the state of Ireland, and to adopt some measure whereby to
remedy the evil; and both Houses of the Legislature responded
to that recommendation. But the Noble Marquis had made it
a cause of complaint against her Majesty's Ministers, that they
had not peremptorily called for this measure. Now, he (Earl
St. Germans) would say, that he did not blush at her Ma-
jesty's Ministers having delayed to ask for such a measure,
for he said it was no light matter to ask for a measure
by which to abridge the constitutional right of the subject—
and the Government did hope that when her Majesty had ex-
pressed her abhorrence of such a state of things as then ex-
isted in Ireland, and that the Government were prepared to
adopt such a measure as this, it would have had a good effect
in the disturbed districts ; but he regretted to say it had not
had that effect. He should also say that the Government did
deserve credit for the manner in which they had brought this
Bill forward ; and nothing also could be more creditable than
the conduct of Noble Lords opposite, who evinced no party
feeling whatever during the discussion ; and when a division
did take place (the only one which did occur) not a single
Peer connected with Ireland was to be found in the minority
upon the division. The Bill was sent down to the House of
Commons on the 13th of March, and it was not read a first
time till the Ist of May. For this delay the Government
were not responsible. The minority of both Houses pos-
sessed ',considerable power—( Hear, h•ar)—he thought that
it was a power which should be exercised with great discretion
The minority of the House of Commons had thought it right
to obstruct tie progress of this Bill not only in that stage, but
they also annnueced that they would oppose it in all its future
stages. He believed it was the imperative duty of the Govern-
ment to proceed with the Bill in the manner they did. It was
in order to same time, and r ass the Bill as soon as possible,
that-it was introduced to their Lordships' House first, and sent
down afterwards to the Horse of Commons. They hoped
to be able, when the public business was less pressing than at
present, to bring the Bill again under the notice of the House.
The Noble Marquis had attempted to turn into derision a pro-
vision in the Bill, urging the inhabitants of disturbed districts
to keep within their houses at particular hours. but the
Noble Marquis, while he was making that attempt, must have
forgotten that a similar provision was introduced and passed in
a Bill which received the legislative sanction during his own
administration.—( Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he had only
to tell the Noble Marquis that the opinions of her Majesty's
Government, upon the subject of this Bill, remained still un-
shaken, and it was therefore their intention to persevere in the
measure..—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought the Noble Earl
had given a very extraordinary reason why the introduction
of the Bill was postponed. The Noble Earl had said that Go-
vernment was in hopes the declaration in the speech from the
throne upon the subject of crime in Ireland would have had the
effect of suppressing those outrages, which had been of so fre-
quent occurrence in the sister country, and which were so mnch
deplored on all hands; but in his (the Marquis of Clanri-
carde's) opinion, the Government had shown a want of deci-
sion, or want of judgment, in delaying the introduction of this
Bill, after they had received an intimation from Ireland that
such a measure was necessary for the protection of life and pro-
perty in that country.—( Hear, hear.) He had only to repeat,
that he thought it was still the duty of Parliament to use every
consitutional means in their power to suppress outrage and
maintain the liberty of the subject in Ireland.—( Hear. )
After a few words in explanation from the Earl of ST.
GERMANS, which did not reach the gallery,
The Duke of WELLINGTON said the Bill was in prepara-
tion before the session commenced, and Ministers were at the
same time in communication with the Irish Government upon is.
The law officers of the Crown, however, had to settfe the Bill
before it could be introduced into Parliament, and of course
this occupied a good deal of the time after the commencement
of the session.—( Hear.) It was that which prevented the Bill
being introduced earlier than it was.
The LORD CHANCELLOR spoke a few words in confir-
mation of what had fallen from the Noble Duke.
The Earl of WICKLOW said, in his opinion, so unconsti-
tutional a measure as a Coercion Bill ought never to have been
introduced, unless there was an absolute necessity for it, and
certainly not if Government did not intend to press it through
Parliament. The measure, it was said, was brought forward
for the protection of life and property in Ireland, and it was
upon that ground that their Lordships passed it, but the
manner in which it was treated by Government in the other
House was perfectly disgraceful. They allowed measures of a
financial character to have precedence of it, and from what he
could learn from the public prints of what passed in the other
House, actually agreed that it should not be brought forward
for the second reading until the House allowed corn, and other
financial measures before the House, to be disposed of.—( Bear,
hear.) In his opinion, this was most disgraceful, for delay
would only render the Bill inoperative. Besides, if this pro-
tection for life and property was required by the people of Ire-
land, the Bill ought to be pushed forward at once, and passed
without a moment's delay.—( Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of NORMANBY said, from the language of
the Queen's speech, it would naturally have been inferred that
there was an absolute necessity for such a Bill, and that it was
the intention of Government t o bring it in and press it for-
ward without any delay.—(Hear, hear.) There appeared
however, and in fact there was, a contradiction between such
language and the present course of the Government ; indeed
there was an actual contradiction between this language and
what had fallen from the Noble Earl opposite. The Noble
Earl did not say that the Bill would he proceeded with at
once, but only whenever the state of public business admitted
of i's being proposed to the House of Commons to read the
Bill a second time.—( Hear, hear. )
The Earl of HADDINGTON said it was quite impossible
that Government could press the measure forward faster than
they had done, for their Lordships would remember that Par-
liament had been placed in such a position with regard to the
Corn Bill, that Government coupnot, consistently with their
duty to the country, have interposed any measure which
should have the effect of delaying its progress.—( Hear.)
The Duke of RICHMOND did not think with the Noble
Lord that the Government would have acted improperly if they
had not delayed proceeding with the Bill in consequence of the
threats of a minority of the House. The Government gave
way to threats too much. The Corn Bill was brought forward
in consequence of threats held out to them. The real reason
why the Government d•d not proceed with the Bill was, be-
cause they themselves were in a minority, and could not keep
a House. The Government had but 112 supporters, whereas
the Irish minority spoken of had been 125.
The Earl of HADDINGTON stated that he did not refer
to the numbers who voted for the Bill, he only referred to the
small minority who opposed the Bill.
The Marquis of NORMANBY would put an end to the
discussion by moving for the returns he had alluded to. At
the same time, it was his opinion that the Bill would not pass
into law.
The motion was then agreed to.
CORN-LAWS. •

The Duke of RICHMOND presented a number of peti-
tions, from Cornwall and other places, against the repeal of the
corn-laws.

FATTENING CATTLE.
Lord BEAUMONT presented a petition from a gentleman
who had made a number of experiments with malt for the
purpose of fattening cattle, praying their Lordships to take
the excise duty off that article. The petitioner stated that
malt was much better (or the purpose than barley.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought the result of his
experiments were contrary to the opinion given before the
Committee.

The Duke of RICHMOND could bring forward a thousand
farmers, whore experience was of more weight than all the
theories of scientific men.

After a short discussion upon the comparative merits of bar-
ley and malt,
The Duke of RICHMOND stated that he knew a farmer,
residing close by the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, who was
himself a great farmer, who considered that malt was prefer-
ab!ts to barley.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that perhaps the
individual referred to by the Noble Duke argued only by
analogy, he judged perhaps from the_effects of malt on his own
person.
Several other petitions were then presented, and_their Lord-
ships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMIWONS, May 22.
The SPEAKER, took the chair at Four o'clock.
REPORTS.
The following reports were brought up and agreed to, and
the Bills ordered to be engrossed, vie.:—Hamilton New Gets,
Aston Rates, Gollon Inclosure, Airdrie Police, Caledonian In-
surance Company, Ayle.bury and Thames Junction Railway,
Midland, Barnsley, Sheffield, Dewsbury, and Bradford Rail:
way, York Improvement, Harrogate Waterworks, London and
South-Western Railway (Farnham and Alton branch), Read-
ing, Guildford, and Reigate Railway.
MARQUIS OF DONEGAL'S ESTATE BILL.
This Bill was read a second time and ordered to: be
committed.

THIRD READINGS.
The following Bills were read a third time, and passed :
Buckinghamshire Railway (Oxford and Bletchley Junction),
Rye and Derwent Drainage, Westruther Road, Greenlaw
Roads, Port Ellen Harbour, Canhalton Rates, Gravesend and
Milton Waterworks.

WEXFORD, CARLOW, AND DUBLIN JUNCTION

RAILWAY.

Mr. GROGAN moved—" That it be an instruction to the
Committee of Selection to refer the Wexford, Carlow, and
Dublin Junction Railway I3ill, being unopposed, to Mr.
Greene, and the Members in charge thereof."—The motion
was withdrawn.

The How. GENTLEMAN also moved—" That it be an in-
struction to the Committee of Selection to refer the Dublin
Wide Streets Bill and the Dublin Cemeteries Bill to the same
Committee."—The mo'ion was agreed to.
GENERAL TERMINUS AND GLASGOW HAR-
BOUR BILL.

Mr. DENNISTOUN moved—" That in the case of the
General Terminus and Glasgow Harbour Railway Bill, Stand-
ing Order No. 131 be suspended, and the propoed amendments,
being merely verbal, lie made on the thud reading."—The
motion was agreed to.
YORK INIPROVEMENT BILL.

Mr. GREENE, on the bringing up of the report from the
Committee on the York Improvement Bill, moved that the Bill
be re-committed to the former Committee. That the Com-
mittee have leave to sit and report on Monday next.—
Agreed to.
GLASGOW MUNICIPAL POLICE BILL.
_ _

Mr. III'KENZIE presented a petition from some of the in-
habitants of Ganow against the introduction of certain clauses
into this Rill, which would he the means of materially affecting
their interests. The petition was ordertd to be laid on
the table.

LEEDS, WAKEFIELD. AND MIDLAND JUNCTION
RAILWAY BILL.
Mr. P. BENNETT presented several petitions against this

CORNWALL RAILWAY.
Sir CHARLES LENION presented 156 numerously signed
petitions in favour of this Bill.
BASINGSTOKE AND SALISBURY RAILWAY.
The same llos. MEMBER. also presented two petitions in
favour of this Bill.

Mr. BARNARD presented a petition in favour of Art
Union Societies.

Mr. HAWES presented a petition against the Highways
Bill.

Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition from tenants
under 'l'rinity College, and others interested in land in the
barony of Irraghticonnor, in the county of Kerry, praying the
Ilouse forthwith to carry into effect the recommeridati,ms of
Lord Devon's Commission, so far as regards the conversion of
Col!ege tenures into perpetuities; and to move that the peti-
tion be printed with the votes.

FREE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.
Mr. BAILEY presented a petition from Strathaven, in
favour of the Bill of the Hon. Member for Montrose for
enabling parties to obtain sites for building churches.