The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-14 00:00:00

WEST INDIA QUESTION.

MINUTE OF CONFERENCE WITH 1115
MAJESTY'S MINISTERS, JAN. 28, 1833.
(Corrected by Lord Grey.)
The deputation, consisting of Mr. Murray, Sir Alexan.
der Grant, Bart., Mr. Colvile, Mr. Carrington, Mr.
Hodgson, Mr. Burnley, Mr. Noyes, Mr. Rose, and Mr.
G. Hibbert, jun., waited on Earl Grey, by his Lordship's
appointment, at one o'clock.
Viscount Goderich was present with his Lordship.
Mr. Murray read the resolution, as transmitted to Lord
Grey under the resolution of the standing committee of
the 16th inst., and which was to the following purport :
" That a deputation from this committee be authorized
to ask a conference with his Majesty's Ministers, with a

view to inquire—
" Whether it is their intention to renew the Lords'
committee of last session ;
Whether it is intended to rescind, wholly or in part,
the Order in Council of the 2d of November, 1831 ;
" And to ascertain what course his Majesty's Govern
ment intends to pursue in Parliament in reference to the
resent position of West India affairs."
Mr. Murray having then stated that the object of the
deputation was to obtain answers on those points—
Earl Grey, upon the first question (the revival of the
Lords' Committee), declined giving a distinct answer until
he should have consulted his colleagues ; he stated, how-
ever, that it could not be expected that the committee in
the House of Lords could be re-appointed without its pro-
ducing, as in the last session, the appointment of one in
the House of Commons. His Lordship inquired the ob-
ject in view in wishing the re-appointment of the com-
mittee, and on its being pressed, among other points, upon
him, that there would be an opportunity of examining
Lord Belmore, lie inquired whether that was the only ob-
ject ; and, on being answered in the negative, he observed
that we might then protract the continuance of the com-
mittee for a considerable time.
His Lordship adhered to his first remark, viz.—that he
was not then in a condition to say whether it would Le
proposed to renew the committees or not, but that the
question should be submitted to the Cabinet.
On the second point (having reference to the Order in
Council of the 2d of November, 1831) Viscount Gode-
rich said, that as regarded the crown colonies a fresh order
was issued a few months ago, which in some points, re-
lating to food, clothing, and the hours of manufacturing
labour, gave power to the governors to make such modifi-
cations as might appear applicable to the circumstances of
each colony. As regards the legislative colonies, the
order having been rejected by all Assemblies, it was not to
be pressed upon the colonial Legislatures.
As to the third question, referring to the intentions of
his Majesty's Government, after some observations on
both sides, Earl Grey said that measures, in which the in-
terests of all parties would be considered, were under the
anxious consideration of the Cabinet ; but nothing had
bee❑ definitely fixed, and he was not in a condition to
make any communication upon the subject, nor could lie
bind himself by an assurance that any communication
would be made to the West India body till the matter had
been further considered by his colleagues.

COMMUNICATION FROM Mr. STANLEY
TO THE DEPUTATION.
" Mr. Stanley has the honour to acknowledge the re.
ceipt of a memorandum containing the individual views
of the gentlemen composing the deputation of the West
India body, upon the leading points connectea with the
settlement of the slavery question; and he begs to offer
them, in the first place, his acknowledgments for having
undertaken a task of which he feels all the delicacy.
" It is, however, with the greatest regret that he per-
ceives, from the paper now before him, that the views of
those gentlemen, with regard both to the extent of the
proposed measure, and also as to the amount of compen-
sation to which they conceive that the West India pro-
prietary would be entitled, are founded upon bases widely
different from any which his Majesty's Government can
be prepared to sanction. 31r. Stanley feel•, therefore,
that no advantage could arise, and some inconvenience
might result, from attempting to discuss in the present
paper, seriatim, all the topics which are adverted to in
the memorandum : he will, accordingly, content himself
with a reference to one or two points in illustration of
what he conceives to be the inadmissible nature of their
proposition.
"‘ The first point adverted to by the gentlemen of the
deputation relates to the equitable compensation which, in
their view, should be provided for the planters ; and, in
their opinion, it is essential, before the planters can enter
into any scheme for emancipation, that they should at once
realize the capital invested in their slaves by a money pay-
ment in this country, and that this money payment should
be calculated at the actual selling price of slaves previous
to 1823, minus the per centage of the decline in the price
of West India produce. Even if it could be fairly con-
tended that the public, in carrying into effect a measure
which will convert the negro population from an enslaved
into a free class of labourers, were justly liable to be called
upon to pay the full value of the slave, Mr. Stanley cannot
see that that value can be fairly estimated upon any other
principle than that of the purchase•money of the
profit at the present moment derivable from their labour ;
and even if this value cannot be accurately obtained,
and if it be necessary to advert, by way of comparison, to
a selling price at a former period, which appears to be
hardly more susceptible of being accurately obtained, it is
difficult to conceive upon what principle it can be main-
tained that the deduction to be made from the selling price
of 1823 should be the per centage decline of the gross
value of produce since that period. Upon the principle
adopted in the memorandum,. there seems no reason why
the charges of duty and freight should not have been
taken into calculation with as much justice as the charges
of production, for the purpose of still further reducing
the per centage decline ; but as the value of labour can
only be estimated by the profit derived from it, not by
the gross returns of its produce, so it appears obvious that
the decline in the price of slaves (even setting all
prospective considerations out of the question) should
be estimated by the falling off, not in the gross price,
but in the net profit of colonial produce, It is to be
feared that the amount of that falling off cannot be
limited to 15 per cent. ; if it can, the agricultural profits
of the 'West Indians have not declined to a greater
extent than those of this country within the same
period. But it is impossible for Mr. Stanley to admit
the doctrine that compensation is to be claimed for the
depreciation of property supposed to have been sus-
tained in consequence of the resolutions in the House of
Commons in 1823, or of the increasing feeling of this
country with reference to the nature of property in slaves,
Against such depreciation no government can protect the
proprietors of any description of property, nor can justly
be expected to give compensation for loss sustained from
causes over which they exercise no control. Without
entering therefore into close calculation, or commenting
upon the statements of the balances of exports or imports,
further than to observe, that by taking the average of the
last 20 years, a result is exhibited which is neither war-
ranted by the present, nor, it is feared, can be expected
from the future, Mr. Stanley will content himself with re-
peating this expression of his sincere regret, that the prin-
ciples upon which it is proposed to form calculations as to
the amount of compensation are such as appear to the
King's Government to he wholly inedmias;tile, and as
could not, with any prospect of success, tie submitted to
the consideration of Parliament.
" The second branch of the subject, according to the
view taken by the framers of the memorandum, is the
mode of extinguishing slavery ; and Mr. Stanley regrets
to observe, that while, with reference to the compensation
to be secured to the master, all is full and definite, exrmp-
ting him from the possibility of loss, first by securing to
him the immediate payment of touch more than the pre-
sent value of his slaves, and then by guaranteeing to him
the continued services of those same slaves for an almost
indefinite period, every thing is left vague and obscure
with reference to the advantage to be derived by the
negro. It is admitted to be necessary in the beginning to
fix a stated scale of wages payable to the negro in his
new condition ;' but Mr. Stanley has sought in vain, in
the memorandum submitted to him, for any principle for
the regulation of the scale; on the contrary it is stated,
as a matter for consideration, whether the wages should
be unalterably fixed, or should depend, in some degree,
upon the selling value of produce ; but no hint appears to
be dropped in any part of the eneinorandurn of any pro•
portion to be observed between the rate of wages and the
value of the labour of the individual, or the portion of the
loan which he may justly be called upon to red, em. In-
deed, h om a passage iminedia‘e y preceding that just cited,
in which it is said that the ba►is of any general arrange-
ment in respect to wages most have a relation to the pre-
sent outlay defrayed by the proprietor,' it would appear
that it is not contemplated that the negro should expe•
rienee any relaxation of labour, or the planter incur any
additional expense, as compared with the present system,
during the period of 41 years, or at all events dpring the
period of the first ' contact,' suggested in the memoran-
dum ; and that the negro, out of the superahundanc-'
which lie at pte,ent enjoys, should be called upon, with-
out an option, for a progressive payment, amounting to
his full assumed value. Thu., in point of fact, the aegro
would only derive the poor boon of compulsory manu-
mission (i lie terms, as well as the manumission, being
compulsory on him as well as on the master), while the
master wculd continue to command the monopoly of the