The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-15 00:00:00

NATUnn*y.

, Jet 7 •
thOl*ll, th moult of past exporlom.
he (Lord J. Russell) still thought the object of the mea-
sures of 1846 had been introduced to combine the two
. .

objects. He found that Irish Members spoke of the
works which had been undertakeri-as if the primary ob-
ject of those measures had net been to feed 3,000,000 of
people who otherwise would have been entirely without
the means of sustentatiou.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
MeMber for Portarlington (Colonel Dunne) stated that
the works undertaken had all been selected by the oth-

cers of the Government, but that assertion had been com-
pletely answered by the Hon. Baronet the Member for
Londonderry (Sir R. Ferguson), who had declared they
had been selected from the various barony presentments
made by the country gentlemen themselves to the Board
of Trade, and thence to the Treasury. Therefore, if the
works were valueless and unproductive, the country
gentlemen acquainted with the localities, and not either
the Board of Works or the Government, were to blame
for the selection of those which had been undertaken.

—(Hear, hear.) But the works having been under-
taken for the purpose of feeding the population, great
inconvenience must have resulted from a sudden ter-
mination of labour on the works which had not been

completed, and the question now was whether, having
obtained some portion of the moneys before advanced,
it was not advisable that the Government should be em-
powered to re-issue part of that so' repaid, in order to
the completion of the works. It was obvious that many
of the roads might be completed so as to be of some
public utility. The Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Goul-
burn) argued that it would have been much better to
have called for the repayment of all the advances, and
then, in a Committee of Supply, to have proposed the
grant of a separate sum for public works in Ireland. He
(Lord J. Russell) could agree with the Right lion.
Gentleman if there had been such a repayment of the
advances as would have justified that course, but he was

afraid the repayments had not been such as the Right
Honourable Gentleman seemed to suppose. While

in some districts a repayment rate of or is. 6d. in
the pound could be obtained, in others it was almost
impossible, under present circumstances, to obtain
repayment at all, and therefore it was propoied by
this Bill that a certain discretion should be left with
the Government, and that where some small advances

had a portion of these repayments might
be
o u bt-erieyn s
u required
repaid,tnd in other cases, where the state of the
n
it, a further postponement of the re-
pay ment of former advances should be granted. As to
the question whether or not there ought to be an in-
quiry into the operation of the poor-law in Ireland, this
was not the time to discuss such a proposition. It was
rather too much to say that they should pass a law one
session and seek to inquire into its operation in the next,
before the parties charged with its execution had had
time to carry it into lull effect.—(Hear, hear.) From
some parts of Ireland he had heard that there was
scarcely enough raised from the rates to keep the people
alive, while in other districts ho received satisfactory ac-
counts-that the poor-law worked beneficially. The time
might come when it would be well to look into its work-
ina ; and then, to any amendment which might be sug-
gested, the Government would be ready to consider it,
with a view to making the existing law more perfect and
beneficial.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SA DLIER said that, under ail the circumstances
which surrounded the question, he felt bound to give
this Bill his support. At the same time he must remind
the Noble Lord that the local authorities in Ireland had
been left no discretion in the selection of the public
works which had been undertaken under the first Act
which had been passed on this subject. If the expendi-
ture on many of those works was returned to the House,
he thought it would be found that much had gone in
cigars and soda water for the officers sent to carry the
Act into operation, rather than to the population for
whose benefit the law was intended. No good would be
done until the area of taxation was reduced for poor-
law purposes. It was monstrous that in Ireland there
should only he 130 unions, while in England there were
upwards of 600. Ile felt satisfied that sooner or later
the areas of the Irish unions must be diminished.
Mr. R. M. FOX decried the works which had already,
been carried on by the Government in Ireland, and con-
tended that more discretion in their selection ought to be
left in the hands of the local authorities.
Mr. P. SCROPE contended, that without looking to
France for an example, Ireland had herself proved that
no Government could beneficially undertake to feed and
employ the population of any country. The works un-
dertaken in 1846 had been wholly unproductive, and he
was firmly convinced that with no result the expenditure
of public money had not only been useless, but profli-
gate. He maintained that all advances made should be
absolutely repayable, and from the repayment there
ought to be no escape. If this principle was followed he
would undertake to say that in the whole western dis-
trict of Ireland, including Mayo and the barony of Erris,
instead of the lands remaining waste, they would be
made by their owners productive, and able to maintain
the population resident upon them.
,Nlr. P. S. BUTLER thought the proposition now
made by the Government neither unreasonable nor re-
prehensible—it was demanded by the urgency of the
case. The present time required the Legislature to deal
with facts and not with theories, and therefore, regard-
ing the present measure as one of practical utility, he
should give it hi; most cordial support.
Mr. GOULBURN, in the absence of Mr. Stafford,
was understood to withdraw the amendment, and the
Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Monday next.
WAYS AND MEANS.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, the House resolved itself into a Committee
of Ways and Means, when the Right Hon. Gentleman
took a formal vote of money out of the consolidated
tend for supplies already voted. The House resumed,
find the report was ordered to be received on Monday.
POOR REMOVAL BILL.

On the order of the day for the consideration of the
Lords' amendments to this Bill,
The SPEAKER observed that some of those amend-
ments might be held to be an interference with the pri-
vileges of this [louse.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it had been customary, on
Bills conneacd with the administration of the poor-law,
to waive that consideration; and be should recommend
the House to do so in the present instance.
Mr. BAINES said that the amendments were not
such as to interfere at all with the principle of the
Bill.

After a conversation the amendments were agreed to.
PLACES OF WORSHIP SITES (SCOTLAND)
BILL.
On the motion that the report on this Bill should be
received,
Sir J. GRAHAM said he had intended to take the
sense of the House or, an amendment which he meant
to propose, and which went to the principle of the Bill;
but as the motion had come on rather unexpectedly (it
being fixed for hall-past eleven), he would postpone his
motion till the next stage.
Lord J. RUSSELL ad no objection to this course,
provided the discussion was not allowed to interfere with
the progress of other public business.
After a few words from Sir R. INGLIS, the report was
received.
SAVINGS' BANKS IN IRELAND.

Mr. REYNOLDS moved fora Select Committee to
inquire into and report on the laws regulating savings'
banks in Ireland, and on the large deficiencies in se-
veral branches of those banks, in consequence of frauds
committed by the officers, with a view to the amendment
of the law, and the better security and protection of the
depositors.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was his intention to introduce a Bill on the subject, and
he, therefore, hoped the Hon. Member would not press
his motion.
Mr. lIUME asked when the Bill would he brought in?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said al-
most immediately ; the Bill was already drawn.
Mr. H. A. HERBERT hoped the Hon. Member for
Dublin would not postpone his motion.
Mr. REYNOLDS said the subject was one of vital
importtwce. He had been anxious to amend the ma-
nagement of savings' banks, and to give to the depositors
that security which they now erroneously believed them-
selves to possess. By the failure of the St.Yeter's Sa-
vings' Bank in Dublin the depositors had lost 50,000/. ;
and if this sum was not recoverable from the Govern-
ment he hoped the trustees would be made liable for it.
Though he was unwilling to press his motion, after the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had promised to bring in a
Bill, he trusted that Bill would provide for reimbursing
those poor persons for the losses they had suffered. Ile
would postpone his motion till that day week.
The 'louse adjourned at Twenty minutes after Nine.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
MARLBOROUGH-STI?EET.
Jeremiah Sullivan, a sturdy Irish beggar, was placed
before Mr. Bingham, charged with begging in Regent-
street, and resisting the constables in the execution of
their duty.
Luke Reany, a Mendicity constable, said that last
evening about six o'clock, he saw the prisoner go up to
several gentlemen in Regent-street, and in an importu•
nate manner demanded alms. Witness went up
to him and told him if he persisted in begging,
he should take him into custody. The prisoner
questioned witness's authority to interfere with
him, and said he should go on begging and defied
witness to take him in charge. A crowd of
people had by this time assembled and witness
proceeded to take the prisoner away. He resisted him,
and tried to throw him down. His conduct at length
became so violent that witness was obliged to procure
additional assistance to take the prisoner to the station.
The prisoner, who denied the charge, was committed
to the [louse of Correction for one month, with hard
labour.
William Briant, another Irish vagrant, was then
charged with attempting to rescue the last-named pri-
soner, and assaulting the constable.
Luke Reany said, as he was taking the prisoner Sul-
livan to the station Brian came up, and, laying hold of
his (Sullivan's) collar, told him not to go with a "couple
of b--- Red-Boners." Witness cautioned the prisoner,
and desired him to go away. Brian refused, and putting
his foot between witness's legs, threw him on the ground,
He then pulled out a knife, and, with a dreadful oath,
swore he would rip
witness's g—s up. Several of the
bystanders came to his aid, and, after a sharp struggle,
succeeded in taking the knife from him, and lodged him
in the station.
Mr. BINGHAM committed him for two months, with
hard labour.

A SECOND JOAN JAcon ASTOR.—The Quebec
papers chronicle the death of George Pares, Esq., who
died in that place lately, at tho advanced age of 95. He
was born in Germany, November 21, 1752, and emi-
grated to America when very young, in search of a
livelihood. By his industry and intelligence he accumu-
lated the largest fortune in Canada. After:the great:fire
iniQuebec, in 1845, he remitted to his numerous tenants
in the La Roche suburbs all their back rents, in some
cases five or six yeats being due.—New York Journal of
Commerce.