The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-28 00:00:00

Iron. Nlembets should feel some impatience at those
details; and he assured them, that after having sat there
for thirteen hours, he felt as little disposed to enter into
them as any one. He should, there'ore, say no more
regarding the colonies, further than to ask the Hight
Hon. Secretary at War when this country was to he
relieved of the expense of supporting 4,500 men in the
lonian Islands? And he would add, that there was no

better field for the Government to show their desire for

economy than in the colonies. With regard to Ireland,
the House would see that the situation of that country

was one which required great consideration. He
complained that the Government should adopt coer.
cive measures towards that country, which would
oblige this kingdom to incur great expense, merely for the
purpose of supporting the Established Church. If the
Government were to do away with the Eqablished Church
in that country, he (Mr. Hume) nould willingly agree to
vote a sum for the .upport of the ministers of religion.
Such a mevure would save 30,000 men in Ireland. But

the saving in the army was not the only benefit which
would accrue from such a measure; it would likewise do
away with that state of disquiet and insecurity, which
must be felt as long as the Disturbances Act was in force,
and it would allow men of capital from this country to
settle there, which they could not be expected to do as
long as even the dread of the Act hung over them. The
excuse held out for maintaining a great part of the army
was, that a large force being kept up by the continental
Powers, it was necessary for this country to keep up a
corresponding force. But he would beg to ask what con-
nection the amount of the continental armies had to do
with the military force we ought to maintain ? He could
conceive that it might he proper to adapt our navy to the
navies of the continental Powers, but this country, from
its situation, being less liable to be attacked than any
other, he could see no reason why the armies maintained
elsewhere should influence those of this country. As to

the army in Ireland, there was, besides the regular mili
tary force, a body of police amounting to seven thousand
men (of the expense of which they had received no
account), besides militia and yeomanry to the number of
fifty thousand na,,n. This he considered far toe large an
establishment for the necessities of the country, and he
thought it might be reduced with great propriety, without
endaneering the peace or security of the empire. It would
be found that England, when compared with other coun-
tries, had three times their force, and that force was main-
tained at double the expense of the force of any Power in
Europe. The only question at present, however, was,
what force was requisite to protect the lives and property of
the p ople, and to maintain the peace of the country ? Ile
had no doubt, that a much smaller force would he neces-
sary for that purpose than that at present maintained, and
that the standing army might safely bereduced from 89,000
to 60,000. Ttiere was one other subject to which lie
would allude—he meant the number of officers. An
officer was at present maintained for every eight men,
which all military men knew to be excessive. It was
three times the number maintained by the East India
Company, or indeed in any army in the world. If the
House (continued the Hon. Member) will go with me in
opinion—and God knows how far Hon. Members will be
inclined to go—(A laugh)—for at present they seem
more inclined to go to sleep—(A laugh)—they will sup-
port me in my amendment to the motion before them. I
think that the number of men to he voted for the ser-
vice of the year ought not to be more than was main-
tained during the administration of the Duke of Wel-
lington. There are, indeed, many reasons why it should
be less, far the continent is not so disturbed, and there is
not so much probaltility of war now es there was then.
I shall, however, content myself with moving that the
army be reduced to the standard of 1830. 1 shall, there-
fore, conclude by moving—" That the land forces be re-
duced to 81,164 men," being the establishment main-
tained by the Duke of Wellington.
Major BEAUCLERK, in seconding the amendment,
complained of the immense army maintained in the colonies,
and especially in Corsica and the Gre k islands. in the
latter, the troops were employed against the liberties of
Greece, ana in support of the Turks, and created hatred
to this country, and suspicion of its intentions. He thought
the maintenance of th se islands not only useless but mis-
chievous, and the expense, in the present state of the
country, was intoleratmle; he therefore begged to ask tl
Right Hon. Secretary at War why they were not give
up to Greece?
Lord ALTHORP would place more reliance on the
opinion of the Hun. and Gallant Member for Surrey as a
civilian than as a military inan.--( Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
He meant that the Hon. and Gallant Officer had had more
time and experience in civil affairs than in military matters.
['he Hon. and Gallant Officer had stated that tie lonian
Islands were useless, and had called on the Right Hon.
Secretary at War to say why he did not give them up.
He (Lord A.) thought that the House would allow, that
his RI hr Han. Friend would he wandering a little out of
his department in deciding on what was purely a matter of
foreign policy. The Hon. and Gallant Officer asked why
the lonian Islands were out given up to Greece ? H (Lord
A.) would merely answer, because, though they had at last
been able to give a Government to that country, still it
was so unstable and disorganize d, that they could not act
towards it as towards an old and settled country. With
regard to the remarks of the Hon. Member for Middlesex,
he would remind the H use, that the question was not,
whether the number of men to be voted should be more or
Irsa. but whether the number of the army as proposed I.y
the G tvernment was inure than sufficient to maintai❑ the
peace of the kingdom, and secure the property of his
Majesty's subjects. The Hon. Member fur Middlesex had
said that the colonists were displeased that there should i e
so many troops quartered among them. He (Lord
Althorp) had never heard so before ; and he never was
more surprised than when he heard the Hon. Member
make the assertion. Every one must see that the state of
the colonies was at present very dangerous, and that it
would soon be necessary to come to some definite con-
clusion regarding them; and he did not think that it war
when approaching that conclusion, they ought to diminish
the farce in them. Then, with regard to Ireland, he
would ask, was this the time to reduce the force in that
country, when they found it necessary to come to Parlia-
ment to ask for additional powers, i❑ order to enable them
to maintain peace within it ?—(Flear, bear.) He thought
that the very worst species of force which could be used
was the yeomanry, and he suspected that few of the people
of It eland would feel pleased, were the Government to
adopt that species of force. The Hon. Member for Mid-
dlesex had likewise said that he thought the colony of New
South Wales should get a separate Legislature. He (Lord
Althorp) was always inclined to give separate Legislatures,
where the colonies were in a fit state to receive them, but
he thought it was a very doubtful question if a convict
colony was exactly the proper one to which to give a sepa-
rate Legislature. He admitted that the increase in the
continental armies was no reason why this country should
maintain a large force. The present farce of this country
had, however, ample employment at home and in
the colonies, without any such reason being held out for
maintaining it.— (Hear, hear.) He would therefore say
that, looking to the state of the colonies and of Ireland, he
did not think that time present was a time when tie Go-
vernment mill venture to reduce the number of the farces.
Mr. WARBURTON wished the discussion not to be
prolonged, and the division to be taken on the next resolu-
ion.

Mr. C. WYNN saw good reason, in the state of this
country, and in the state of the colonies, to keep up the
army ; but he saw no reason ti keep up this force in the
present state of Europe. If a large standing army was to
be kept up on the ground of confidence in the reformed
Parliament, R••form would be a curse to the country. It
was not a sufficient justification of our keeping up a large
iiriny that other stiles kept up large armies. He and his
Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) had opposed this principle
17 years ago with sneers?.
Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE said he would agree to the
suggestion of the Hon. Member for Bridport, and take
the division on the money grant, and not on the number
of men.

Amendment negatived.
The vote of 89,419 men was then agreed to, on the
undet standing tlatt a debate and division were to take place
on the grant of money.
The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be
received to-coo:low (this day).
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a quarter past two.

TORY. ELECTIONEERING.—In the late con-
test in Marylebone, a respectable tradesman was written
to by a certain Lady, who not only solicited his vote for
Mr. HOPE, but told him plainly that if he did not so vote
she would cease to employ him. The prud,nt and con-
scientious grocer veoid accordingly for HOPE—hut took
with him to the poll fifteen votes for WHALLEY.-Spec-
tator.

The Duke of WELLINGTON came from
Str,ithtield,aye on Friday, purposely to dine with his
Nimble Fi tend the Marquis of SALISBURY on Saturd y.
His Grace hunts three days in the week, and rides tweuty
miles, as we are informed, to meet the hounds.
It is currently reported in the higher circles
thst the large annuity recently left by a deceased Noble
Earl to the ami.ble lady of a great public funct onary,
will not be accepted. A correspondent inquires, on whom
will this legacy devolve should it be refused by the otalted
person for whom it was intended?