The Sun.
London, England, 1848-04-14 00:00:00

FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 14, 1848:

tain the assistance of foreigners for the destruction of this
country, were it in their power.--(llear, hear.) It was,
tnerefore, necessary for the Government to be on their
;nerd, and they proposed the Bill only for a period of
oue year.—(lear, hear.) The Noble Marquis then
detailed the provisions of the Bill, and said the discretion
as to the removal of foreigners might be safely entrusted
to his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, subject to the control of Parliament.
He intended to propose some slight modifications in
Committee.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII thought that one of
the greatest benefits that could be conferred on this
country would be the burning of every copy of Han•
sard, and not looking to what had been said as to past
cases, regarding only the present evils, and the remedies
necessary to b applied to them. He thought the mea-
sure was not sufficiently stringent. If the Noble Mar-
quis could rot tell the number of aliens in this country
the Act would be inoperative. The Alien Act of 1836
obliged every captain of a ship to give the number and
names of aliens whom he might bring into this country ;
but he had no means of compelling them to give their
names. It was true the foreigner was to produce a pass-
i,ort, but if he did not do so he was only liable to a
fine of forty shillings ; and how could they tell
if
fwethey did not know
were accompanied by
hisa
this
nßt
ill
the most stringent measures of registration and pass-
port, it would be quite ineffectual. The Noble Earl then
recited the provisions of the Act of 1836, and contended
that the measure of the Noble Marquis was a mere
tractional part of the Alien Act, and likely enough to
deter foreigners from coming here, but very ill adapted
to send them out of the country after they had arrived.
He believed we never before had so little regarded a re-
volution as that which had recently occurred in a neigh-
bouring country. On former occasions the minds of
Englishmen were horrified with the bloodshed of the
French revolution; but that had not been the case yet
with reference to the last: ruin had certainly been the
result, but it had been gradually operative. It was well
to guard against the influence of French Republicans in
this country, but he believed the Bill before their Lord-
ships would be ineffectual for that purpose.
Earl GREY said the provisions of the Alien Act were
not sufficient to obtain a perfect registration of foreigers
coming to England, and he was afraid it was impossible
to contrive a system of passport which would not be highly
offensive to parties who had no criminal intention.—
(Hear, hear.) This Pill would give a power to the Go-
vernment, if information were obtained that any parti-
cular emigrants were inciting disturbance and resistance
to the law, to remove them, and he thought foreigners
could not so conduct themselves without the fact being
ascertained. He firmly believed the Bill would be effec-
tual for the purposes for which it was designed, and he
should not like to see introduced a system foreign to the
customs of the country.—(Hear.)
Lord BEAUMONT regretted, in the present state of
the continent, where it was clear that the Governments
of Europe must be remodelled, that a personal attack
should have been made by a Noble and L?arned Lord
opposite (Brougham) on certain Princes of Europe,
who had been abused and caricatured by the Noble and
Learned Lord in no measured terms. He did not hesi-
tate to defend the conduct of the King of Sardinia,
which had been condemned by the Noble and
Learned Lord in language so objectionable and
unqualified. It was well known that for the last ten
years, in consequence of the conduct of Austria, many
of the states of Italy were deprived of their indepen-
dence, being in fear of that power; and if they had
given their people the rights which they were entitled
to claim, it was known the Austrian Government
would have invaded their territories to put
down the march of freedom. The states of
Italy had long sought for independence and free
institutions, which they had been afraid to claim
iron] fear of Austria. The revolution in Vienna had
weakened the Austrian power, and it was felt that she
could no longer crush any attempt at insurrection in
Lombardy. Sardinia and the Roman States had not

taken 114 step until Milan had declared her independ-
ence, and then they interfered because they had no
choice but to do so, or place themselves in danger by a
war between France and Austria. Austria had long
dictated, in the proudest and most insulting terms, to the
states of Italy. She had laid neighbouring states waste,
and broken the treaty of Vienna, but her power was
now shivering to atoms—it was now crumbling to pieces;
and had not the King of Sardinia, the Pope, and the
Duke of Tuscany, a right to look to their own interests
and protect their subjects ? This they had done, and
he contended they had done no more.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM said his Noble Friend had cer-
tainly made a very eloquent speech, but of all the figures
by which it was distinguished, dislocation was the most
remarkable.—(A laugh.) When the Alien Bill was not
before the House, he made a speech on it ; now he had
dwelt on other subjects.—(Hear, hear.) It was a saying
that it was good to leave well alone; and perhaps it was
as well to leave ill alone for fear of making it worse.
He thought the Holy Father—if as infallible in
temporal as he claimed to be in spiritual matters—
would not thank his Noble Friend for his defence.
He (Lord Brougham) believed the King of Sardinia to
have acted out of fear of his Genoese subjects, and from
a desire to make himself king of the north of Italy.
To the Holy Father he ascribed no worse a motive than
the vain and pernicious desire to make himself popular.
This had given the impetus ; but his subsequent motive
had been the basest that could sway a ruler—the fear of
the Roman populace. If anything could draw down
contempt on those entrusted with temporal power, it was
the fear of doing their duty, lest it might render them
unpopular.—(Hear, hear.) The history of Europe for
half a century had shown the evil effects of succumbing
to a mob, and betraying a solemn duty to popular
opinion. He was sorry to accuse Pius IX. of having
acted thus. As to Charles Albert he did not doubt his
capacity for effecting that movement technically called a
retreat ; this he would doubtless effect very quickly, and
4et out of the enemy's way. He must either do this, or
conquer Radetaki before he could possess Lombardy.—
(Hear, hear.) After the treaty of Vienna had existed
a quarter of a century, and become the statute law of
Europe with regard to territory, it became the most
imprudent thing to disturb it ; but if without such
disturbance the freedom of Italy could be assured, no
one would have a right to complain. It was the
greatest mistake to suppose that the Austrians were not
justified in doing what they did at Ferrara. Had the
Pope, instead of appealing to considerations which
might increase his popularity, merely insisted on the
Austrians keeping within the fortress, they must have
done so; for Austria had as perfect a right to that for-
tress as the Pope himself had to his castle of St. Angelo.
['hug much in reply to what had fallen from his Noble
Friend opposite, who, he hoped, would have no difficulty
in obtaining absolution from the Holy Father for this
extraordinary defence of him. The Noble Lord then
referred to something which he had said on Monday
evening in respect to the French Provisional Govern-
ment, and said that he had meant no disrespect whatever
to M. de Lamartine in his remarks on the answer which
he had given to the Irish deputation.
Lord GRANVILLE said he must protest against
the opinion that the politics of the Pope had been
influenced, at home or abroad, by any base lore of
popularity.—(Hear.)
Lord STANLEY said that while he gave his cordial
and hearty support to this Bill, he must say the Go-
vernment had not been over hasty in introducing the
measure, nor did he think it was likely to be so efficient
as they desired. It being admitted that the provisions
of the Registration Act were not and could not be
strictly complied with, it was evident that this Bill could
not operate efficiently. To this no answer had been
given by the Noble Lords opposite, who had merely
alluded to vexatious interference with private life. Why,
the Bill itself was an interference—he had almost said
an unconstitutional interference—with the ordinary law,
with 'private arrangements and comforts, and with the
ordinary laws of hospitality; but, as such it was justi-
fied by the circumstances', of the times, by the necessity
of providing for the safety of the empire, and by the
fahcist that
country, there were, perhaps, 50,000 foreigners in
though the number was nut material
—their influence and disposition was everything.
t
These were the grounds on which the Noble Lord
opposite had defended an interference, which was
confessedly inefficient. Either they ought to have
interfered effectually, or to have been restrained from
doing so by the considerations he had cited.
This Bill and another in the other House had been in-

troduced with the view of passing them before Easter;
so that the time was toe short to discuss either oPthem
fully. This measure in particular demanded the most
_ .

careful consideration, and investigation of the existing
law. It went to recognise foreigners by name, while the
Government confessed that they bad no means of know-
ing those names. This was avowedly a temporary
measure; but the one in the other House was not so; it

was a measure for a great and permanent alteration in
the law of sedition and treason. W ith respect to this
latter measure, their Lordships had a right to complain
that unless they would consent to pass the Bill hastily,
they might be told they were responsible for the con-
sequences. Looking to what had passed here and in
the sister island, the Government was highly censurable
for not having brought forward these important measures
until within a week of Easter. They might have been cer-
tain of the support of large majorities in both Houses; they
might even have relied on the cordial aid of their political
opponents to neutralise any opposition from their political
friends; still they had delayed these measures most un-
wisely.—(Hear.) Ile was fully disposed to support these
measures, but he must complain of the delay. He
must complain of another matter. If the Government
of Ireland, with the open declaration of the intentions,
hopes and desires of a body (not a numerous one, cer-
tainly) in that country—with the recr,mmendation to
the people to arm themselves in resistance to the Go-
vernment, was content to sit by and see all this go on un-
checked, and even to allow the manufacture of weapons
before their eyes, which could be used for no legitimate
purpose, he must condemn such a course .—(Hear, hear.)
For the first time, not only since the union, but for a
much longer period, all restrictions on the carrying cf
arms in Ireland had been removed by the present
Government; and hence the difficulty in which they
were placed with regard to the measures necessary in
that country. He regretted that no new powers were
asked for by Government, and that even no efficient
steps were taken for carrying out the provisions of the
Bill passed before Christmas. The number of arms
disaffect
hitherto given up was extremely small compared with
been
thet number that had been manufactured. If there was
take steps
an outbreak there, it was inconceivable folly not to
k sotefps for securing a well-armed population in sup-
portevil, withGthoevervniem:ntot and order, and to disarm the
attaetnthioen
,ed, especially with the full warning that had
opp,,,TiNoenn:
but
the Bill before the house he offered no
Lordship,' Too uagshtta
state
ot
of things
ndgustys• too
fraughtca
wtheirith
was going on in Ireland.—(Hear,)
prevent the general arming that
Lord DEN NI AN and.—(liear-)
said
the Bill before the House had
his cordial support. Still
he must express his regret
that pours so extea
siTeaad alarming were found AOC"' A

sary. The Secretary of State would be bound to act on
any information conveyed to him, from whatever quarter,
t tra,ohnui lotsPgut
al
sought
tsuht uasttc9otht
amddeai
eavnni
oddgfei et s rouwopeuai
and however founded. The repeal of the Alien Bill in
most
182 6
painfulh a dto hr
peril.—(Hear,
cerooitnpi
on.
p—hdobaus:i
Httecedoeo
(at
mw.
srt
,pithtaehehnl
el
lGsaeehrdyoo.
))vtuoeht
rsHe
aneodni
nf
powers to any Government. He regretted that th.
imminentnNi bn
eo
nL
Govern-
ment well entitled to their Lordships' thanks for the
prompt steps they had recently taken, especially in the
last few days.—(Hear, hear.) Their conduct with re-
gard to Ireland led him to the gratifying conclusion that
they did not deem any further powers necessary for the
preservation of the peace in that country. With regard
to the Bill now before the House, he hoped its provisions
would be well considered, and that their Lordships
would be able to give it their undivided support. It was
most important, in times of order and quiet, to prepare
for any disturbances that might arise. As to the meet-
ing on Kennington-common, he considered that the Go-
vernment were perfectly justified in the measures which
they took to put it down. Such assemblages were
highly dangerous, to none more than to these deluded
persons who were led to suppose that their liberties
were invaded by the steps that were taken to preserve
order.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said there appeared
to have been a mistake as to the object of this Bill. It
did not at all relate to the system of passports—but it
effected that which it proposed—namely, to give Go-
vernment the power of excluding from the country indi-
viduals whose conduct might render their presence here
dangerous.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord opposite
(Stanley) thought the Bill did not go far enough; but it
was most important, on such a subject as this, that the
Government should strive to carry with them the opinion
of all classes, and this would not have been the case had
a more rigorous measure been proposed. He would make
the same remarks with respect to the measures adopted
in Ireland; and he thought the Noble Lord (Stanley)
had gone out of his way fur the purpose of prematurely
condemning the course of Government. The events
of the last few days had, he hoped, shown that the
attention of Government was fully called to the state of
affairs.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") On Monday next he
should be prepared to state what course the Government
meant to adopt with regard to Ireland. He could net
make that statement now, for he was not so much
in advance on these questions as the Noble Lord oppo-
site (Stanley). Exceptional laws of this kind were
necessarily founded on the circumstances of the moment,
and could not be justified or condemned by precedents.
A much more severe law might be required at one time
than at another; if ever one moment was strongly dis-
guished from others by the peculiarity of its circum-
stances it was the present; and it was the part of a
statesman not to look to the former opinions of himself
or others, but to judge from existing circumstances what
measures were necessary.—(Hear.)
The Earl of MALMESBIJRY said that he and his
political friends had supported this Bill from the fairest
and inost patriotic motives, and it was unfair to impute
to them any other. While willing to share the respon-
sibility and odium of the Government, they had a right
to see that the measure was effective.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said a few words in
reply, which were inaudible in the gallery.
The Duke of RICHMOND wished the Bill had been
more efficient; but he hoped it would answer the pur-
pose desired. He supported the Bill because he believed
that prevention was better than cure. He could wish it
were a more efficient measure, but he would not, on
that account, offer any opposition to it. On the contrary,
looking to what took place in other countries, he was
not prepared factiously to oppose the Government,
but to give them his feeble but hearty support to enable
them to carry on the affairs of the country.
Lord REDESDALE called the attention of the Noble
Marquis to the loose way in which the provisions in the
Bill respecting the service of warrants were drawn up.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that when
the Bill was committed would be the proper time for
discussing the objection.

The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed on Monday, and the standing orders sus-
pended; upon which their Lordships adjourned, at
twenty minutes before eight.

ROUSE OF COMMONS, Aprill3.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
An Horn. MEMBER presented a petition, praying
for the abolition of the attorneys' certificate duty.
Capt. JONES presented a petition from Wexford
in favour of tenant-right.

further found, that a large number of the signatures
were consecutively written by the same hand. It
was also observed that a large number of the signa-
tures were those of persons who could not be sup-
posed to have concurred in its prayer ; among those
were the name of her Majesty, signed Victoria Rex,
the Duke of Wellington, Sir Robert Peel,
&c., &c. There was also noticed a large num-
ber of names which were evidently ficti-
tious, such as " Pugnose," " Longnose," " Flatnose,"
" Punch," " Snooks," " Fubbs," and also numerous
obscene names, which the Committee would not
offend the House or its dignity by repeating, but
which evidently belonged to no human being.—
(Hear, hear.)
Upon the motion that the report do lie upon the
table,
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that it would be quite
impossible for any thirteen clerks to count, from the
time the petition was printed, even 1,900,000 signa-
tures, and he should therefore move for the appoint-
ment of a Committee to inquire into the subject.
There was an old saying, " that those who hid
knew where to find," and he believed that
if such abuses did exist, it no doubt was the act of
some of the Government spies.—(Oh, oh.) He fully
believed that the number of signatures he had repre-
sented the petition to contain was correct. He
would apply another test to the petition. The
petition was contained in four or five large bundles,
and it took himself, assisted by four other persons, to
lift the largest of the bundles.—(Oh, oh.) He did
not believe he should have any difficulty in obtaining
a petition upon the same subject signed by 15,000,000
or double or treble that number.
Mr. THORNELY said that the petition was
treated with all the respect which was due to one
so numerously signed, and if he might take
the liberty to speak of an individual so humble as
himself, he would state that there were points re-
ferred to in that petition with which he cordially
agreed, the vote by ballot, for instance. But
the House would probably remember what
the Hon. Member was not aware of, that the Corn.
mittee of which he had the honour to be the Chairman,
was appointed in the early part of the session, and
entrusted to report to the House the number of sig-
natures to each and every petition presented. It had
been necessary to call in additional aid in order to
ascertain the number of signatures to the petition. He
believed that that number had been ascertained
with perfect certainty.—(Cheers.) The Honourable
Member had referred to the weight of the peti-
tion as a proof of the correctness of his state-
ment of the number of signatures to it,
That petition had been weighed this morning, and it
had been found that the whole of it together
weighed 5, cwt. The Committee was, he trusted,
too well known to render any further statements upon
the subject necessary. They considered that they
were only acting in conformity with their duty in
laying the statement with respect to the petition be-
fore the House.—(Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he gave full and
entire credit to the report of the Committee upon
the subject, and considered that it was entitled to the
fullest credence.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY said,
that among the many falsehoods that had been
stated with respect to the meeting on Kennington-
common on Monday last, the greatest of all he
believed to be the proclamation that hail been
issued by the Convention, stating that a glorious
demonstration had taken place, and that a quarter of
a million had assembled on Kennington-common. He
was not there himself, but he had been informed by
those who were that there was not 25,000 persons
there. He believed that that was an over-state-
ment, and that there were not more than 15,000
persons there.—(Hear, hear.) Now, he would
ask, was it to be supposed that the country would
be deceived by a set of men such as formed the
Convention when they dared to tell them such a
falsehood ? In his opinion, men who would
so act were the greatest enemies of the people,
traitors to their country and their Queen, and rebels
to their God.—(Hear.)
Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL denied that the
Irish Repeaters had taken any part in the demon-
stration that had taken place on Kennington-common.
Sir R. H. INGLIS believed that such an expo-
sure as bad now been made, not only of gross
exaggeration of the numbers, but of the character
of the parties signing the petition, would at
once convince the Legislature how little faith
it could place in such petitions.—(Hear, hear.)
It was clear, from all that had been stated, that the
petition, of which so much had been said, was not
worth the paper on which it was written.—(Hear.)
He thought those who had so grossly exaggerated
their statements with respect to the petition were the
greatest enemies of the right of petitioning.—(Hear.)
He should not move any resolution on the subject,
but he would submit whether, as a means of ensuring
the value of petitions, some plan should not be adopted
similar to that which existed some years ago, of
adding to the names the residence and occupation
of thole signing the petition.—(Cries of ‘• Hear.")
He trusted that the Government would state, either ,
to-night or to morrow, what course they intended to
adopt, in order to put a stop to such demonstrations
as they were threatened with on Monday last —(Hear,
hear)—in order that they might not occur again.
and he hoped also that Ministers would do something '
for those who had so spontaneously come fur ward in
support of the Government and the peace of the
1 country.

Mr.CR IPPS said, after what had fallen from the
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Nottingham, and
the reflections he had cast on the Committee, he felt
it to be his duty to get up and confirm what had
already been stated by his lion. Friend opposite.—
(Hear, hear.) When the Hon. Gentleman made
the audacious statement that this petition was
signed by 5,706,000 persons—(Derisive cheers)—he
went from his place to examine the petition and com-
pare it with the population returns.—(Hear, hear.) He
was not aware then that it was signed by women, but
he had since ascertained that out of every 10,000 sig-
natures that were attached to the petition 8,200
were those of women.—(Cheers and laughter.) He
did not wish to throw obloquy and ridicule upon the
petition itself, but he did wish to ridicule, and cast
obloquy and derision, upon the Hon. Gentleman who
had made these monster statements.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNOR rose to order.
The SPEAKER said, if the Hon. Gentleman
wished to make any explanation upon his personal
conduct, he must wait till the H
Hon. Gentleman in
possession of the chair had resumed his seat.—(Hear.)
Mr. CRIPPS proceeded to remark that the state-
ments of the Hon. Member were unworthy of cre-
dence, and he hoped the poor people whom he had so
shamefully deluded would now see, in its proper
light, the character of the man they had dealt with.—

(Hear, hear.) Were these things to be tolerated
while parties, whom he could not say were immediately
connected with the Hon. Gentleman—(Cheers)—but
who availed themselves of the opportunities he placed
in their way, -to ruin honest tradesmen at
such places as Camberwell?— (Loud cheers.)
This petition teemed with wickedness and obscenity.,
and there were words affixed to it that the lowest
strumpet in the street would be ashamed of.—(Hear.)
Upon one of the shee s were written the words " We
could get paid for no more," and had he been aware
of the nature of the signatures that were attached to
it, he would have objected to the petition
being received at the time it was presented.
What is it to get 5,000,000 petitioners' names ? They
could get any number, definite or indefinite, if they
chose to adopt such a cou, se. lie hoped the House
would not cast such a censure upon the Committee of
Petitions as to appoint another Committee to inquire
into the subject.
➢lr. F. O'CONNOR, said that he was not in the
least degree responsible for the contents and signa-
tures of the petition. The Hon. Member then left
the House.

Mr. ABEL SMITH said that he was present upon
Kennington common on Monday from first to last,
and he could state most positively that never
was there at any time within the common
more than 15,000 persons. The whole area of the
common could notpo:sibly contain more than 90,000
persons : yet the don. Member for Nottingham had
himself stated in the House that there were not less
than half a million persons present.
Colonel SIBTHORP said that as it had been said
that his name WAS attached to the monstrous petition,
he begged most emphatically to deny that he had
ever signed the petition, or consented to have his
name placed there. He would not so far have dis-
graced his family by acting in such a manner.
Mr. lIUME thought that the Hon. Member for
Cirencester had taken a very improper course in the
remarks he had made upon the subject of the petition.
He ev
ebeen
thought
v e ofdt thenotice
the
dwo
beenuld
b
given of bringing the subject properly before the House.
pr e i
He expressed his deep regret that any Hon. Member
should have made use of anything likeirritating
language. He believed that it was the rule of the
bons? that every Hon. Member should be respon-
sible for the petitions which ha might present, and
that every party who attempted to impose in such a
manner upon the House ought to be punished.
Mr. R. YORKE differed from the Hon. Member
for Montrose. He thought the cause of truth was
under great obligation to the Hon. Member for Ciren-
cester.—(Hear, hear.) It was true he had
used strong language, but he thought he
was justified in doing so.—(Hear, hear.) He
had made statements with respect to the Honourable
Member for Nottingham which he had of course
denied.
Lord CASTLEREAGH rose to order; he thought
that assertions ought not to be made with respectbto
the statements of Hof. Members when they were
not present. There might be many persons who
had a different notion of honour to himself in that
'louse, but he should think himself unworthy of a

i.ll

seat in it if ba brought charges and made statements
against an Hon. Member ;hen ha was not present.
Mr. R. YORKE said that the Hon Member for
Nottingham's absence was his own fault.—(Hear,
hear.) He had asserted, and he would assert again,
that the statement made by the Hon. Member for
Cirencester was correct.—(Hear.)
Mr. B. COCHRANE wished to know
from the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government whether
he thought, after the discussion that had taken place
that evening, it would be iright or just to waste the
whole of the evening to-morrow in discussing the
question of the Charter.—(Hear).
Lord J. RUSSELL observed, that having stated
some (ays ago that it would be impossible to give
Monday up for the ccnsideration of the Chartist
petition, and having proposed that its con-
sideration should be proceeded with on Friday,
he certainly could not consider himself at liberty to
depart from that arrangement.—(Hear.)
Mr. C. LUSIIINGTON observed that the Hon.
Member for Nottingham had stated that he
had two points to explain, one of which he
had explained there, and the other he said he should
explain in another place.—(Hear.) Now, his doubt
was whether the Hon. Member, in his explanation in
another place, would not put a wrong construction
upon what had taken place in that House that night.
Mr. DISRAELI thought it would be exceedingly
ridiculous if they had, as appeared likely to be the
case, a more serious meeting in that House than had
taken place on Kennington-common.—(Laughter.)
He thought that if the Honourable Gentle-
man made a statement grossly incorrect, and
calculated to do mischief, it was the duty of
Hon. Gentlemen to bring it under the considera-
tion of the House calmly and deliberately.—(Hear.)
The Hon. Member for Cirencester was entitled to
praise for the zeal he had displayed in
affording the House information upon the
subject of this petition, but still he had
indulged in exceedingly warm and unusual language,
and he therefore trusted the Speaker would interpose
his authority to prevent the occurrence of unpleasant
events.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir G. GRE would be sorry, because it would
be ridiculous, if this debate led to a personal conflict
between the two Hon. Members, but really he had
heard nothing to lead him to that conclusion, except
it was that the Hon. Member for Cirencester
had spoken with a good deal of warmth.—(Hear.)
Mr. It. PALMER distinctly heard the Hon. Mem-
ber for Nottingham state that there were three
things for him to explain, two of which he should take
notice of there, and the other he should leave for
another place.—(Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said, under these circum-
stances, he should move that the Hon. Member for
Nottingham be taken into custody forthwith.
The SPEAKER, in calling upon the Hon. Member
for Cirencester to give him an assurance that he would
not resort to ulterior measures in this matter, took
occasion to point out to the House the absolute
necessity of Honourable Members being guarded
in the statements they made to the House, particularly
so far as related to their accuracy.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CRIPPS would readily give the required as-
surance, but at the same time he begged to be under-
stood that he was sincere in what he had stated.
After a few words from Lord CASTLEREAGH,
Sir DE LACY EVANS said that he did not
in the least degree feel surprised at the feelings of
the Hon. Member, who was a member of the Committee.
But he trusted that the Hon. Member would at once
get up in his place, and regret that he had used lan-
guage which had given offence to any Hon. Member.
Mr. CRIPPS said that he certainly deeply re-
gretted having made use of any language which
might be considered unparliamentary.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
suggested that some restraint should be put upon
the Honourable Member for Cirencester, in order to
prevent his leaving the House in his present excited
state.

The motion was then agreed to that Mr. F.
O'Connor be requested to attend in his place
forthwith.

CONVICTION OF MATTHEW DAVIS.
Mr. EWART, in allusion to the conviction of Matthew
Davis, at the recent assizes for Warwick, for the murder
of his wife, said that he had received the strongest re-
presentations from the medical men that Davis was not
reponsible for the dreadful act which he had committed.
He wished to know whether the matter was under the
consideration of the Secretary of state for the Home
Department, and whether it was true, that 'unless there
were some alteration in the decision which had hither-
to ben arrived at, the prisoner would be executed to-
morrow ?

Sir G. GREY—It is very true that a man of the name
of Davis was convicted at the last assizes for Warwick
for the murder of his wife, by cutting her throat, and
a memorial was a few da} s ago presented to me, accom-
panied by the statement of medical men, who alleged
that, in their opinion, his mind was not in that state
which made him responsible -for his acts. • I took the
course as to that memorial which is invariably taken in
these cases—viz., transmitted it to the Judge before
whom the prisoner was tried, who said that these two
medical men were examined at the trial, that the jury
came to a conclusion that the man was in a state of mind
to make him responsible, and the Judge informs me that
he concurs in that verdict.

JEWISH DISABILITIES BILL.
Sir R. INGLIS asked the First Lord of the Treasury
whether, in the present state of public business, he
thought it likely that he should be able to bring far-
ward the Bill for the removal of the civil disabilities of
the Jews before Easter, and, if not, when he thought it
likely.

Lard J. RUSSELL—In an swer to the question of my,
right lion. Friend, I should say that we shall propose,
on reading the order of the day for the Crown and Go-
vernment Security Bill, to proceed with the Committee
on that Bill at tvvelve o'clock to-morrow. I hope to be
able to fix the third reading of that Bill for Monday, and,
therefore, the Jewish Disabilities Bill cannot be pro-
ceeded with on Monday. Of course I shall not then
attempt to bring it on before the Easter recess, and on
the motion for the adjournment of the House I will state
the day on which I propose to move it,
The Earl of LINCOLN asked on what day the Noble
Lord proposed that the House should adjourn for the
Easter recess, and for what pet iod ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would give the earliest
intimation he could,

The order of the day for the Committee on the Crown
and Government Security Bill was then postponed till
to-morrow, at twelve o'clock.
MINISTERS' MONEY—DUBLIN.
Mr.W. FAGAN said that the resolution which he
was about to submit to the House had been submitted
in precisely the same words by Mr. Sergeant Murphy
in 1842, 1843, and in 1844 was adopted by the House.
He should have applied for a Select Committee, but
had sufficient experience of the House to know that it
was the almost universal opinion that a Select Com-
mittee was but an approved mode of shelving a question,
and that it was universally considered as the very best
means of relieving a Government from the responsibility
of accepting or rejecting a proposition. A Select Com-
mittee was not necessary on this particular occasion,
because every information which a Select Committee
could acquire was already in the possession of the House
in the records up stairs. It had been said elsewhere that
this resolution was informal. The object of the resolu-
tion was to ask leave of the House to bring in a Bill for
the immediate abolition of ministers' money in Ireland,
but inasmuch as it was a Bill for the abolition of one tax
sad the substitution of another, it was requisite that
he should move a resolution, lie had the highest
authority for stating that the resolution was perfectly in
form. He had scarcely taken his seat when he pre-
sented a petition from 16,500 citizens, calling for the
immediate and total abolition of the tax. He regretted
that some one of more weight and influence in that
House had not undertaken to bring forward this subject,
and he particularly regretted that some Honourable
Member of a different persuasion from his own had not
undertaken the task, for he was aware that there were
in that House many Honourable Members of the Estab-
lished Church who were opposed to the infliction of the
tax of ministers' money upon the Catholics, and he,
therefore, would much prefer that some one of them
should bring this suhjsct before the House. It was a
tax which ought at once to be put an end to, and he was
aware of the fact that the Protestant clergy were Op-
posed to the odious necessity of collecting this ministers'
money from their Catholic fellow-subjects. It was
a great aggravation of the evil that this tax
was paid principally by
Catholics. There, were
only eight corporate tons in Ireland which paid
the tax, and those eight were all Catholic—
whilst the Protestant towns of Armagh, Carrick,
fergus, and Belfast, paid no ministers' money. Cork,
Kilkenny, W aatoedr fotrhdo, Cplroonpmo
retli,oannodfLcialatehroiclkiospaaidndmpinrios.-
neyitiose towns was as follows :—ln Cork there
twteeesrrstaelmiLso,lol7l Catholics and 11.905 Protestants—a pro-
portion of about 6 to 1 ; in Dublin. in the parishes that
paid ministers' money, nearly 150,730 Catholics and
53,492 Protestants—a proportion of nearly 3tol ; in
Limerick, in two parishes which paid this tax, 14,929
Catholics and 792 Protestants—a proportion of 20 to 1;
in Waterford, in six parishes which paid the tax, 17,791
.Catholics and 3,251 Protestants—a proportion of sto 1;
in Kinsale, 523 Catholics and 1,070 Protestants. There
was one peculiarity connected with this tax, which
caused a great deal of suffering, and a most unjust pres-
sure upon those who were subjected to it, namely, that
under the law as it now stands, there could not be a new
valuation unless the houses were rebuilt ; but it so hap-
pened that in some towns, such as Limerick and Cork,
the houses now inhabited by the poor people were those
which had been formerly inhabited by the rich, and
thus the tax pressed with additional inequality upon the
poor who were the inhabitants of those houses. Under
the law which regulated the collection of ministers
money, the churchwardens were empowered to distrain
and sell the effects upon which the distress was levied at
once, in default of payment. He saw a statement which
had been laid on the table of that House with respect to
those distresses, and in that statement a Protestant
clergyman laid the average number of such distresses at
fourteen in a year; but if it were only one in a year, it
would, in his (Mr. Fagan's) opinion, be one too teary—
(Hear, hear)—for it was not alone the personal injury
which each Catholic suffered from this tax which caused
the evil, but the rancour which it produced in the
country.—(hear, hear.) lion. Members had no idea of
the rancour which was produced in Ireland by trifling
matters of this nature—(Hear, hear)—and whilst only
eight towns in Ireland paid ministers' money, those