The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-26 00:00:00

N, MORNING, itNE

Hon. M. miters messed to a roereion Bill should not give thei
votes in favour of it in est:equenre of the measures recent'
passed through that Heuse, and that these who were i•
tevour ot it should not give their votes against it for th.
opposite reason. Nothing could be more reasonabs
than the first part of the Right Honourable Baronet'
proposition. He had yet to learn that any man would get ui
anti say he weiild vote fur a Coermon Bill because of a Corn
I men,. Bill which hat passed that House, and totally irrels-
!ive of the mews. i Bill, the cannon, of the. liiiiister w.
had introduced it, at d the claims he nsti on the cer,fident•e •
the country. The Bill roust be pre-eminently censidered
question of coeli mere, and when they found that
itivested the Government with a discretionary power
surely it c.-uld he considered in no other light
Sh' Anted take the folowing as en illustration. If the Govere
111, o%errs acl COOOIIg ttOWII hat House with free tra•
rat`s tote,, alitt els eesiess ,halt ell restrict en on tee inh ortat I• •
of teo I shone! e ate and .lished, had come down ,o tbs.
Heuse, tied sari ht fer dislt: mi,ar) poster to Open the ports-
he merely eave that a- a,. iiluetrattou -.it e (mid be very es elms
to stews Him. Gent late n in t hat House that, in so doing the .
weuld hare asked for a larger pow, r and greater confidenc
than they had ,eme wi b th, ir present enure; aid he cool
choose no t istinctien between a question of cenfi,
eence on the h
reettiction of loud over the libercs of
1 who e temple. It 11-2,y were not prepared to intrust the Govern
meth with such ',tree peers w o e case, neither were the,
',repine!, unless they lied the mist perf. et confidence in th•
Government, to invest them with a di,crmienary power to sus
peritt the constitutional liberties of sea, n millions of theh
yellow-subjetes; and, therefore, he thomeht that the Right Hoe
Barone , in At,ernp.ing to separate the present question from e
question of confidence so the Government. indulged in a view id
:he question which the House would hardly suppert.
He had no vote to rescind en tee present occasion, and althnuel
he did not with to vote against it, stall he could net bring hi,
mind to vote in favour of the measure. He had heart
so much of the evies of a nominal protection the;
it had in some dt gree become the habit of his mind.
He had applied this principle to 'he present Bill. There wer,•
two points which had nit been spoken to in the present debate
which were first, whether this Bill would really pass ; and second.
it it did pass whm her it would be of any service at all. They
had been called upon to pass the resent Bill, on the
;wound that if they threw it out it would give an
impetus to agitation. He was not satisfied that
all the means had yet been tried in order to put down it.
outrages which existed, and protect life in Ireland. 'I he 2e
and 3d William IV wee tried in the county of Leitrim wit)
success. In the oihrr counties it had not been tried at all
He
when in onecouldnot consent
county
utotyhe present abrogation of th• constitu-
tion,
-once( Hear, hear.) Ia t
tl e ars
at
st bac s
bad pen„ laireyt had
to
resortb eett,
t•xtraottlinery measures, when the ordinary ones bad not
been tried. Until they had tried the resent law, tr
was most unfair to set pend the constitutional liletrtie.
,f a allele nation. The Bight HM. Baronet said the measur•
was only a topical remedy, ate' not to he meshed to all Ireland
If it %este so—it he laid stress on that character of the tn.&
ure, they must look to those lone resident in the five coun
hes whether such a remedy would be effectual. He theugh,
thin all thrice who were connectedwith three counties front
ong tier, anti had intimate knowledge, would be found pint
against the- measure. Every one must adroit that it would
irodure great alienation of feeling, and they ought to pause
, end censider whether the good to be obtained would counter-
- halanee the evil, He, at. least, would say that as a native ot
Ire] hid, a resident in that country, and a magistrate, that h,
could not consent to the nieesure.—( He sr. hear, and cheers.
:le e,nsidered it would be impo-s.tle to carry out the curler
•lauses of the Bill. The provistue was totally impracticable.
The Bill was tritely inappiiceble to the countrs, anti that clauss
earti..ularls which enacted that the people should be confined
their houses from sunset to sunrise. He bin elf could no
mforee it in his own county. He would feel it, they: fore, t,
hr h's duty to oppose the secend reading of the Bill.
lhere was a reason, however, for tl e increase of trim
in Ireland which . those around him weuld reedit)
•intierstand.—( Hear, hear ) He traced it to the failure ir
he potato mop. The people found famine staring them
rise face, and the consequence wits the mere:les that swelled
he returns, hut they aught not, in feirro•ss. to be set down to do
rdtn rev cenoitien of the people. He had no besitatien in beeline
-is testimony to the corpluet of 'he first Minister, arid i,
,s,ing that the measures taken by the Bight Hon. Barone,
meet that state of things were mire effewire in warding
ff the distress arid the evils- than any Coercien Hear.
°wester impt•rative it might be in them to show the necessits
f s mehmes setetificing their old epinions, 301. aster th•
rhse•able exh,bition winch had been seen that session, he di
eet regret having said at its commencement that .h.
•wed unfettered ells gi •rice to party. rest usages and laws
,f that House hart been construeted wi,h reference to two great
mews. arid beceuse there hid been more than two he believet,
hat those lows ewe irieffica,ions. anti would remain so. He
night say that If lo•reefhr he should have to vote for (merely,
neesures, and he did not mean to say that it might never
• -me, he should not regret hay rig been able t.o advocaet
e milder policy , and if he should hereafter have to
Amer with those whom he was now to assist in throwing ou,
'f '.fee. in any capacity ander them he should not 1. boor ter
less cheerfully for being compell•-d to express his want of con-
erienee in them at present, and t.o record his vote agains,
them now.
Ale. VESEY feared that he should appear to some disad-
vantage at this parr of the debate, but he rould not remair
'ny longer silent. Nei her could he refrain from expressine
s ••oneurrence in the testimony of praise to the Right Hoe.
"zecretary for the Home Department ; but further than
his he could • not go, fur, as an Irish proprietor, he could
nno way accede to the necessity of this Bill.—( Hear. hear )
He should go on two grounds, one was the necessity, and
tee other was the policy of this Bill. If he admitted the
eolice reports he was bound to say that there was great
reason shown for the severe measures which were projeeteo
against Ireland. But in stating thus much he must call the
eteention of the [louse to the tact that instead of the five
•nunties those reports had reference ro the whale of the country,
rod in the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet it was evid tit
hat he bad merged the ft to counties in the whole of the
onutry. so that. there was n t sufficient reason for the appliea-
ion the Bill to the whole of the country. He could state e
`act which occurred five sears ago, and t is was in particula, •
pference to t he most °hie( tionable part of the Bill, but one which
'ught to have been included, viz., the security for the witnesses.
Phis was a ease which occurred when he was empannelled on
he Grand Jury, when a man was brought forward whop-
. use hail been attacked by a party in search for arms; tine
-int only had he stated when brought before the Grand Jury.
hat if he gave evidence sis life nr..uld be in danger. but when
is brother was brought before the jury he fell upon his knees
:nil entreated that he might not he compelled to give evidence.
(r had again been urged that other remedies might be
tephed for this ewe of things. He was glad to set
he remedies which hod been introduced by the Nobl.
Lord the Secretary for Ireland. It had been urged that
pedal commissions, increase of the constabulary. and other
'means of that sort., might be beneficial in oheceiug
he present state. Spec-al Commissions had been tried it,
am in Queen's County, sor at the very time a Special Corn-
eitsion was siring in that county some of the foulest murders
y..re committed. Lord Grey had introduced his famous
oereion measure in consequence of the report of a Committer
f that. House appo nted to inquire into the nisturbed state o'
t eland. A great cause of the prevalence of crime in Irelane
va., the sempathy of the peepie with those who committee
ff nees. It it. was not symeatity in all cases, it was at least u
,ant of teadinel. '0 assist w tb_c detection of • • ffending parties.
,et them destroy that teelitor of eympethy if they hoped te
reprove the condition of the country. The provisions of the..
till would operate to some extent in al ering this state o'
eines. He did IV), agree with the Hon. Memrser for
hrerthamptonshire, that if the curfew clause was passed In
'tan would he safe. If that Hoe. Member would read it
right,,e,hree
actually vyiiulii fionudt that no person would be affected unles
hey
.ei•tory
II • new turned to the Conmettee which reported on the statt
a Ireland in 1832 which eas reimposed principally of lihera
etveenag aged.
H
hcilhinbauitt.tniieeie,hr,l.lo.aonnodwechicioct.hri
et
given to life arid prop-rty, and that metsuree should h.
k n to put down
.lon. Member here quoted several ex•rams from the evidence
aken hetere that llo,timptee, all of which Went to
" Ithehosiem and nocturnal outrages. Tht
ladtthetnrYi'oiwtteetion shout('
how the great disturbance which then erevailed, ant
to nee slit hexist exited
in
effectually
a would yet have a great effect in- ixrvent:r) stoppingg
those the
tcloi smtubribnaatc
tli,
er criminal purposes which were now so rife. The Hon.
eSeteleman then quoted an extract from the seeeela of Sir
Whlhate ereeb, white op-nions were strongly in favour of the
lie. He would beg to tall to recollection a speech of his
'tight Hon. Friend, in whieh hr had thanked the Government,
tud in that speech he I leaded that fathers and mothers of fami-
lies might ge to bed in peace, with the assurance that them-
selves and their families would not be awakenedby the midnight
n he celled upon his Hon. Friend to give a cordial.
t'suonrdr ; and
ouerraeblte and impartial
sepport to the Government, notwith-
standing the difference which existed between him and them.
Mr. HUME did not expect to have to address the Ileum!.
fee he fatly expected that the Bill would have been withdrawn
Yet he nev •rtheless could not help eongratulating the Hone,
n eth•nchln
HOpeindi'itdn which had
remember b,rtt:kPetriimpelaewe with
hen. spinreaHect House
'f else Members, all the opposition that they could muster
Eeglish. Scotch, and Irish, was only comprised in the number
ef i'9 Members, The ease was now greatly changed, but he
had hoped that it would have been more changed, for when be
referred to the speeches of the Right Honourable
Baronet. ( Sir James Graham) at the end of last session, hr
tomed that conciliation marked every sentence of those speeches.
the Right Hon. baronet had spoken of times gone by. He
',AIN Hume s• remembered greater outrages in Ireland than
any which the Right Hon. Baronet had adduced. He would
call the attention of the House to the state of Ireland in 1823.
And recall his expression of opinion. which was decidedly
against the preseet measure. What had been stated in that
Reuse by Sir Henry Parnell? Sir H. Parnell bad said that
it by a long course of ill treatment we had made that country
a nation or slaves, alt their coercive measures would not remove
The effscts ot that bad treatment. That country had all along
been governed by a system of Protestant oppression, and ;n
erder to shiny that he could refer to the penal enactments
against the ratholu•s, which precluded them tram filling the
meatiest offices in the kingdom. 1 hey were precluded from
any offiees connected with the law, and were even precluded
from tiding the eiJhatitins of officers in the army and navy; and
though fir se enactments had been repealed, still their effect
remained t a considerable extent, and were a very great
.nurse of annoyance to the Irish Ca-helics. What with Co-
ercion Bills. the Arms Act, and other coercive enactments,
with the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, Ire-
land had hardly ever been allowed to remain in a
situation in which the more proper and cultivated feelings of
the people cold be developed. The present system of govern-
..ent was rendered, by a party feeling, an uniform system of
oppression • upset the Catholics. It he looked through the
whole of Lnrd Grey's appointments. he would find the greater
part of them were what he called Orange appointments.
Und..r these circumatences, wash surprising that Irishmen
sheuhl be deed to the feelings of patriotism, and indifferent to
she laws which were nominally for their benefit? And that
feeling wetriti never he removed until her Maje-ry's Govern-
ment chose to carry out those professions which they had given
last sessien, and adopt those measures of conciliation which
-Orly were caleulated to restore peace and tranquillity to Ire-
lend. The effect of the present system did net only affsct
Irel-inn, it was felt in England. For was it not painful to
contemplet • the mass of misery, destitution, and crime whirh
existed in Ireland, and for the relief of weich Etigland was
c impel ed o use resour..es which ought to be applied to diirt-
rent objects? lilt repeated. that the evil would never be e,ot
rid of until the present ,ystern of relig,ous persecutioi, was
Abolished, acid the Cathol c was made, in every respect of civil
ient, equal to any other member f the cnturnunity,, who midst
he of a persua,ton more favourable in the eyes of the country.
If the 800. Gentleman the itemiser for Northampton. and the
Noble L•hd the Member for L; an, acted with regard to Ire-
land upon the same principles of justice which they wished for
Etiele• d. they mieht bat su.e ot commanding, the affections; of
the Irish p, ople. The true way of conciliating the people of
[retold was to plate them en the same footing at the scotch
and Etesitsh peo de. What was wanted was, really to carry out
the union between the two coun ries. He had always been op-
posed to a repeal of the
n them. bur his desire was that it should
be a hanfid-, and not a parchment union. The difference
between a free man and a slave was the participation of equal
rights and privileges by the former, and the Irish people would
never be free till the la.' tinier which they lived were the
same as these enjoyed by the residents of this country. There
was nothing, in the inst itutiens •ef ire-thud:Ant sh '—
e people aced
care to preserve. They were entirely at the mercy of a fez,
to vim Ducat tLI Tit b: faizo, waci, sea tz;,e