The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

on referring to the evidence of Mr. Gay before the Land
Burdens Committee, that that gentleman stated that in the
China market the exports were selling at less and less, and that
many losses were in consequence sustained. He believed the
experts must be met by imports, and put gold
m o. on the
other
articles that are to be estimated in the calculation.
Grain entered comparatively little into the foreign trade, as
compared with the home trade, which, in regard to the exports
they were selling year by year for less and less, while higher
prices were being paid for returns to be imported —( Hear,
hear.) If they reduced the price of labour in the home market
Loan equivalent extent, there would, however, be no loss. If the
rate of labour in both countries was approximated there would
be no loss. The great argument with regardto the corn-laws
was, that in order to increase the
exports of the country, it was
necessary to increase the imports. He believed in that respect,
that the imports were regulated in a great measure by the state
of the borne market. Taking the populationcl
oo of England and
Wales, they found the population to be oo .o 00. consuming
each a quarter of corn. It seemed according to political
economists there were twenty millions
of acres of arable land
in the country, of which five millions ofacres were under
yield three wheat. Supposing that each acre
that was less than was produced in manyhe amount places
t he knew, but it
was the average amount of corn yieldedproduced
would he fifteen millions, being one million lesasthaa nnt
rthe whole
ew but
required for the consumption of the population. There
e one million of quarters which were made up from Ireland and
the colonies. The amount of deficiency was so small as to
leave but little to he made up by importation from foreign
countries. —( Hear, hear.) But the lowest food at present
consumed by the people was wheaten bread. He made this
statement, and he made it advisedly. It had been proved that
when distress prevailed in Leeds and Sheffield there was more
wheaten bread consumed than at times when trade was
flourishing; as at the latter period the consumption of
butcher's meat was so much greater.—( Hear, hear.) At present
therefore, even in seasons of depression, there was but 1,009,000
to make up, though in many seasons the country produced
sufficient to supply its wants. But it was said that free-trade
would increase the quantity to 2,090,009 quarters, and that the
great object of the change was to increase the exports of the
country by encouraging large imports. There was to he an
importation of 2,000,000. If so, they must displace 2,000,000
of English grown quarters, over and above the present amount ;
and if there was an increase of prosperity among the manufac-
turers of the country, then that 16,00,060 of quarters would be
too much, as butcher's meat would be substitute 1 to a great
extent for the wheaten bread at present consumed. He
must here allude to what fell from the Noble Lord who sat
near to him, and who stated that during many years the
produce of the country was equal to its demands, and that it
would be found that in this respect the present measure would
be a great hardship. If this were so then how would this meet
the eepeetations of those who expected that this measure would
lir'ne a large accession of imports. There would be periods
if this were true, there would be seasons and periods in which
the large supplies exported would not be required, and then
a'ray would go the principle of the manufacturing interest, who
expected from this measure a large, regular, and perma-
nent increase of trade with foreign countries.—( Hear.)
The Noble Marquis also said that if they adopted this measure
of free trade, the foreigner would regulate his supply, and
there would he a regular produce for each and every year, but
this was nothing more than what they had at the present mo-
ment ; for the Noble Lord remarked, and truly, that under the
present system the foreigner had warning of when they
were in distress, and when they had abundant harvests, This
was just what he required ; and he was, therefore, strongly
favourable to the present system, but whether they had a slid-
ing-scale or not, the foreigner would almays be informed as to
the prices of wheat in this country.—( Hear, hear.) If they
were to have foreign corn, 'it was better, he thought,
that it should come into the country paving a small
duty. But it was argued that the foreigner,
having a knowledge of the state of the markets in this country,
could easily stop the supplies during disturbed times ; but how
did this agree with one of the statements made by the Noble
and Learned Lord who lately interrupted him? The Noble
and Learned Lnrd stated that even when Napoleon was in the
meridian of his power—when Napoleon had almost conquered
the world, and had every part under his control, he could
not prevent corn coming into this country.—(Hoar, hear.)
There was another circumstance to which he must allude be-
fore he sat down. The protectionists were asked why the
English farmer could not compete with the foreigner. Now,
he contended, in the first place that the English farmer came
into the market not on fair terms with the foreigner. He was
as convinced of this es he was living at that moment.—( Hear,
hear.) In balancing the trade of the country, the English
farmer brought 16,139,039 quarters of corn into the market
while the foreigner only brought 2,190,000, or 3,C73,0f9
the one, however, came positively loaded with taxation, while
the foreigner came in free. The English farmer had, perhaps,
to pay 49. or 55., in the shape of direct taxation upon every
quarter of his wheat, and vet he had to compete with the
foreigner who paid no tax whatever. Besides his
Noble and Learned Friend knew little or nothing of Russia, or
he never would have made the statement he did with regard to
it. Instead of Russia being in the position it was, the land
was already clear and ready for plough. It required neither
manure nor any thing else, and it only waited for the seed being
thrown on the land —( Hear, hear.) Would this city then
compete with the British farmer on fair and equal terms? He
would wish to know whether his Noble Friend was a German
scholar.—(Laughter.) Well, perhaps he was not—(Renewed
laughter)—if he were, he would remember the description of
the state of the cern soils in Russia. The description tf an
immense tract of land, ready to receive the grain, and only
likely to give a return in case of a proper market being found.
Not long ago, he was at the port of Goole, in Yorkshire, and
he there saw corn which had been conveyed on board' a
vessel there at 12s. 6d. per quarter. They might use their in-
formation as they liked, but he could produce a confirmation of
his statement, that the corn was conveyed on board free, at
12s. 6:1. per quarter. He referred to his authority, as there
was a disposition to contradict his statement. It was not
probable that they could maintain that the price of
corn would remain so low as it was at present. He knew
that if a large trade was carried on in corn the prices would
rise, but they would be subject to an enormous fluctuation.
He had seen last autumn and winter in Germany that from
Monday to Wednesday the price of bread had risen six
kreutzers. When they did away with the bonding system
they would he exposed to these fluctuations. and left
with corn stores. The garnering system was adopted
all over the continent, in France, Austria, Germany, Turkey,
and even by the Pacha of Egypt. If there was not sufficient
provision in the country, the people fell back on these stores.
which as late as last winter had been the means of preventing
famine in many parts of the country. The bonding system in
England ensured that protective system.—( Hear, hear.) We
had in bond a certain quantity of corn which was always a
provision, and it was pretty certain not to come into the
market until it was wanted, and it was certainly a safeguard
to the country, and it was more certain and more economical
than any other that could be arranged. They had net in this
country what was seen at Constantinople, when the people
were clamouring at the arsenal demanding the surrender of the
provisions contained in the building. Something might be
done which would hinder the country being dependent on
others. If they were to follow the suggestion of his Noble
Friend near him, they would cultivate more stock, instead of
having a proper quantity of arable land. His Noble Friend
said that stock was a great improvement in farming, but
they must have the straw for the stock, and must have the
land to supply that straw and receive in return the manure.
If this measure was passed they would he compelled to make
up a sufficient number of quarters of foreign wheat, and having
no bonded system, you will then be driven to extreme distress.
Then would happen that grievous object for which they appear
to strive—namely, the market will be only supplied just with
what it wanted for the moment. Then, if anything sudden
were to happen to the country to check this system. so that this
importation could not take place, what would become of the
country ? Under the present law there was always a sufficient
quantity in bond to supply the deficiency, in case of an accident
of this kind.
The Marquis of NORMANBY—Remember your promise.
Lord BEAUNIONT—The Noble Marquis had reminded
hint of his promise. He had only to state that he had a few
words to say with reference to the question of population in
extensive districts. There was no doubt that whatever the
population was, there must be a great demand for labour. In
this country, however, the population was very dense, so that
there was a great supply rather than a deficiency ; therefore,
the whole argument drawn from the circumstances of America,
did not in the least apph to this country. Their Lordships must
bear in mind that this country was the most densely populated
country in all Europe. There was another point
to which he must call their Lordships' attention, and
that was the question of freight. The freights were
greater from Selby and Goole to London than from
Hamburgh to London. He was sorry to detain their Lord-
ships so long. He spoke from the fulness of his feeling. He
was extremely sorry to stop so short as he had done—he re-
gretted that he could not proceed at further length ; that,
wishing as he did that the debate should be concluded to-night,
and knowing that they yet must have a long and an able speech
from the Noble Earl opposite (Dalhousie). He said a long
and able speech, because he thought the Government were
bound to show some better ground than had yet been done, and
some better reasons on the part of the Government for intro-
ducing this measure. He considered that it was their duty to
show what would be the diminution of price in the article of
corn—whether it would diminish the material income, or
whether they intended to take 30 per cent., or 20 per cent.
from the income of this country. He would refer to one point—
the rental of land. The rental of this country was 17/. an
acre in the North Riding of Yorkshire, 13/. in some parts of
Wales. There were two parishes in Lancashire in which Mr.
Ashworth's manufactories stood, where the rental was only Si.
an acre. This fact was given in evidence by Mr. Ashworth
before the Committee appointed to inquire into these matters.
Ile would conclude by observing that he very much regretted
he could not refer to other subjects which he was desirous of
bringing before the attention of their Lordships, but at that
late hour of the evening he would not further detain them, and
he thanked their Lordships for the kindness with which they
had heard him.
Lord BROUGHAM explained. His object, he said, in in-
terrupting the Noble Lord was to prevent misconception with
regard to what he (Lord Brougham) had really stated, and also
for the convenience of the Noble Lord. His Noble Friend
had entirely misunderstood his statements and his arguments in
reference to Russia and to Napoleon Buonaparte, and he
had entirely reversed the inference which he had drawn. His
objeetin interrupting the Noble Lord was merely to set him right.
and to prevent his (Lord Brougham's) argumeats from being
misunderstood.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE hopes, that their Lordships
would do him the justice to believe that in rising to address
thous in favour of the second reading of this Bill, he did so
ender deep and unfeigned distrust of his inability to discharge
the task intrusted to him, but he hoped, from the continual
course of kindness which he had experienced from them, he
would meet with their indulgence, while he made a few obser-
vations on the important question at present under their con-
sideration. Nothing should fell from him to increase
the feelings of discontent which prevailed among
their Lordships, but he would address himself to the
question without attempting to excite any irritation on so im-
portant a subject. The bebate, as far as it had yet gone, had
divided itself into two considerations—the one referred to the
measure itself, and the other to the conduct of those who had
brought it forward. It was, he admitted, hard to endure, and
painful to listen to the comments which had been made upon
those who were identified with the present measure ; and
though he admitted the mortification, he felt, on finding him-
self in opposition to those with whom he had for-
merly acted, still he must admit that there was some
cause for their comments which he had heard.
It was not from any disrespect for their Lordships who
dif-
fered from him on this question, that he would notaddress their
Lordships at any length. His Noble Friend, the late Secretary
for the Colonies, had laid the case so fully before them,
he would feel it unnecessary to address them on the arguments
advanced by the Noble Lord, lie should mention to their
Lori ships that he had always been of opinion that the principle
of protection was not to be maintained, for it was most injuri-
ous to the trade of this country. Ile had founded that "Pi-
nion not upon any light grounds, but had formed it from an
examination of the history of the commerce and the legislation
of this country. That was the source from which his opinion Wes
formed—that which his Noble Friend said he had sought
for in vain—namely the history of facts. The tariff since
1842 had placed the question of protection beyond all doubt as
to its effects and as to the necessity of its alteration. In
making the statements which he now did, he made ne state-
ment at variance with the principles and opinions which he had
advocated for years. Ever since he had the fortune to take a
east in the administration of affairs he had not in that time
sa;d anything but that which he now said. He remembered
well that when he expressed his sentiments to the House on