The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-27 00:00:00

victims, that if it did pass, its effect would not be what was an-
tleipated, arid a more gradual, but not the less certain, disap-
pointment would be tlie r, cult. Still he thought that the
balance of good was in 'avour of the Bill, and that it would
tend to diminish the pressure of misery upon a large portion
of their fedovv-subjects. He did not mean to say that the Bill
would do away with the evils attendant on the necessary lot
of nature regard ng those who laboured ; but he felt it. would
be a great means of arresting that degradation which affected
a large body of the community, and which could not continue
consistent with the safety and credit of the state.—( Hear,
hear. ) His attention had been principally directed to the
condition of the labouring classes during the two years
that he adminis•ered the internal affairs of the country,
anti the result of his examination was not to
c. nvince hirn that the corn-laws would do away
with these evils, and at any rate that the measure would not he
of much importance in itself to diminish those evils. A great
authority, Air. Adam Smith, had slated, that when the rewa-d
of the labourers was ample, it was the greatest proof that could
be afforded of the prosperity of the country; that when the
remuneration was moderate, it was a proof that the country
was stationery; and that when starvation existed to any large
extent, it was an evidence that the country was going down.
In reference to the working classes,iine,
as sufficienttwhesanie authorityfortheir
said,
that their remuneration, at his time,
comfortable maintenance and the edueation of their children.
Ile also stated that a corn-law then existed, amounting almost
to prohibition. What use could he make of this ? He was not
going to state that the present evils were produced by the corn-
laws, but to direct their attention to the causes of the change.
It must be admitted. that whatever benefits and advantages
machinery might hereafter produce, there was no doubt that.
since its introduction, it had operated to a great. extent on the
labour market, and had influenced the condition of the labourers.
Do not let them suppose that he wished machinery han
not been invented. A" he did say was that from that time up
till now the Government should have watched the transition
state arising from the extensive application of mechanical
power. What had been one of the effects of this change ?
Why, it caused a considerable emigration of their labourers
from different districts of the country. Manufacture had now
become an abuse of the term, for it was not by strength of
hand that these fabrics of England were created; women and
children were called to aid machinery, and consequently the
demand for labour in the manufacturing districts was for the
very cheapest kind, while the more complicated and arduous
and high-priced labours formed exceptions. Ile contended,
then, that the effect of all this had beets to establish what
might be termed a monopoly price. In a report on the con..
dit ion of the people, which bore the name of Mr. Chadwick,
it was stated that a cottage in Ilutls.ndshire might be had for
50s. per annum while for a miserable apar ment in Man-
chester he would pay 71. 10s. He only adduced
this to show that these changes ought to have been
considered by Government at the time, because they
affected the people of this country more than he expected the
present measure would do. What were the statements made
in the last sanatory report? Why, it was said that the cost o!
preventing disease in Manchester amounted to 300,11001. per
annum, or 1/. per head, if they merely took the population
But it must be remembered that there was a considerable class
in that town who were wholly exempted from the diseases which
afflicted the lower classes, and therefore in this way the cost
was much moi e than 11. per head. Now, he would look to
another article which pressed heavily upon the working man.
They heard much of the cry of cheap bread, he would just in-
quire how the labouring man would be affected by it ? An
hs. duty neon corn, according to the report of Mr. Senior.
would only be a tax of lid. upon the working man. But what
use did he make of this? Why, he was considering the con-
duct of the Government, and he told the House that it was
clear from these reports that three or four years
ago they had ample opportunities, without rupturing parties
or rendering themselves liable to reproaches, for introducing
measures which would have proved of more advantage to the
poor man than the present Bill. His Noble Friend behind slim
read a report last night from Mr. Greg, who, he believed, was
a member of the Anti-Corn-law League, and an extensive ma-
nufacturer, and who gave a melancholy account of the pros •
poets of the manufacturing districts. He stated that foreign
countries were rapidly increasing their power of underselling
them, but he (the Marquis of Normanby) could assure their
Lordships that while on the continent, a short time ago, he
matte inquiries of his friends into this, and, to a certain extent,
he found that the apprehensions of Mr. Greg were right; but
they gave a very different reason for it to that of Mr. Greg
himself.—( Hear, hear. ) He said that in the spirit of the
utmost kindness to those gentlemen ; it would be better if
those gentlemen would apply some part of that ingenuity which
they had hitherto exclusively directed in the pursuit of agri-
culture, in the improvement of land, to their own manufactures.
If they would take that advice in good part (in which spirit he
wished to give it), he could assure them, as far as
his humble knowledge went, that the danger to be apprehended
by the foreign market was not that they were
able to sell cheaper, but that the colour and texture of
the cloths was of a very inferior description. He was com-
pelled, in answer to the observation of his Noble Friend on the
proceeding evening, to remark that the present generation in
the manufacturing districts was much more deteriorated, and
that the value of their life had diminished five per cent. He
felt bound to make a few observations with respect to the con-
duct of the Government on this question. He felt that they
had a right to complain when they found themselves thus unex-
pectedly forced to come to a decision one way or the other upon
a question presented to them, and which they had no right to
anticipate.—( Hear, hear.) He complained that the Govern-
ment had, in bringing forward this measure, aggravated the
difficulties, in the peaceable and quiet settlement of this question.
--( Hear, hear.) He considered that much higher questions
were at stake than merely whether or not these results were
likely to be realised. He thought that in all constitutional
countries, public character was a sort of common stock ;
and that where there was a wanton waste of it, he
thought every one interested in the maintenanc of
the constitution would suffer considerable loss. They
hail heard at one time a great deal of that sentiment which
once roused the glorious sensibilities of the country. Theu
now heard of nothing but buying in the cheapest and selling
in the dearest market. To those who stuck this opinion on
their banner, he admitted that there might be some merit in
having a cheap minister, upon whose fears they could traffic.
They could go into the market, watch his turnings, and deal
accordingly. He felt assured that there still existed a strong
feeling in the country in favour of the sacredness of the
pledges of public men. He thought it would be better for
those who wished to make an alteration in Committee to vote
at once against the second reading of the Bill. lie had a great
wish to maintain the legitimate authority of that House ; but
he hoped that no unusual course would be taken to support
that authority : for he (lid not think that, after the majority
with which this Bill had come up from the other House,
they could now successfully interfere with it. He did not
attribute vest importance to this measure ; and, if it were
passed, he should not look upon it as irrevocable. If the evils
which some anticipated should result from the measure, their
Lordships would have no difficulty in revoking their previous
decision. He thought, however, that this measure was a step
in the right direction, and would be attended with much good.
although it had been purchased at the suicidal price of public
character.

The Earl of CARDIGAN apologised for trespassing on the

time of the House s i early, but having supported the Govern-
ment now in office for a period of 25 years, he was anxious to
state the reasons why he could not support them on the pre-
sent occasion. He could not say that he had always been con.
sistent in every vote which he had given, but this he could say,
that he had always voted conscientiously. What, he would ask,
had occurred which could justify her Majesty's Government In
proposing such a measure as this ? It was true that temporary
distress had existed, but a temporary remedy was all that was
required. The calamity which hi.d occurred in Ireland could
not be considered as a sufficient ground for the abolition of all
protection to agriculture in this country. Such a cause ought
never to have produced such a measure as this. By such a
measure as this they would stultify all their former proceedings.
• e did not pretend to have any greater discernment than others,
but he considered the course proposed far them to adopt was
must pernicious, and which he considered as derogatory to their
character. Their Lordships were shortly coming to a vote
upon the subject, and he would ask them, if they were going to
reverse all their former votes, what would be the opinion of the
country and of the yeomen of England— a fine and gallant
rare, who loved honesty and sincerity? And he asked them,
would there be any sincerity in adopting a measure which they
had formerly rejected? He trusted that they would not yield
the question without a serious consideration.
Lord WINCHELSEA said he did not think he would he
doing justice to the great body of the people, who called upon
him to represent their opinions in that House, by giving a
silent vote upon the question. He would refer them to Scrip-
ture, in which it was written that when the rulers of a country
were found wanting it would be removed from amongst the nal
lions of the earth. Would they allow the Government of this
country to act in such a degrading manner as to give a pre-
mium to one of the most revolutionary belies that had ever ex-
isted in this country ? The measure of 1829 was, he regretted
to say, carried by treachery and perfidy. If their Lordships
sanctioned a principle so subversive of the constitution, they
would live to rue the day. If their Lordships gave way to the
cries of the members of that seditious body, the Anti-Corn-law
League, they would lose the affections and esteem or the sober
and intelligent people of this country. No man could be a
greater advocate for cheap bread than himself, but if they were
to be obliged to depend upon the produce of foreign nations,
this country would be ultimately destroyed. This country grew
sufficient food for its own people.—( Hear, hear.) It might
appear a strange statement to some of their Lordships, but he
could state as a fact that had come under his' own
personal observation, that in the very county men-
, tioned the Noble Earl who opened this debate—Lincoln----
there were produced in the year, 1M45, hundreds of
bushels more wheat than the people of that county could ex-
pend ; the plentiful supply of that article so reduced the price
in the last year that the cattle of the cultivators of the land
there were fed with the beg t wheat. Some might ask what
corn growing countries were we to fear if this meastire were
passed into a law, but he had no hesitation in saying that
America alone could afford to export as much corn as would
supply the inhabitants of the whole of Europe. 105,00d,000
quarters of wheat had been grown in the different States of
America last year. He, therefore, maintained that the land of
this country must go out of cultivation. Sir Robert Peel him-
self had admitted that where the farm was small, and the
amount of capital and skill was trifling, the land might go out
of cultivation. He implored their Lordships not to give a
vote contrary to their consciences. Several Noble Lords had,
however, done so when the Reform Bill was before them, and
it had been a matter of sincere regret to them ever since. The
Noble Lord concluded by stating that he should give his most
determined opposition to the measure.
The Earl of CLARENDON believed and hoped that this
measure would at once
potato
nant d for ever destroy the protective
system. Whether theesto blightproduced the conversion,
of the members of her mpa
j 's Government in a great measure
he knew not, but he must express
hear, hear.) There was
scarcely any man whose mind
unfeigned delight at the
introduction of so great a measure.—(d
had not undergone some change
on the question of protection during thehn w laesrtethinirtfyavyneiaursn,
f and he
would ask those of their Lordships w
pro-
tection, whether they would venture to reject this Bill?
much regretted the delay that had occurred in demonstrating
that. ng
that thin measure was by no means a party one. lie firmly be-
lieved that Sir Robert Peel was influenced by none other than
conscient ous and upright motives. Some of their Lordships
might ridicule the argument about thept)tata failure in Ireland,
but he defied them much longer to treat the sad reports which
arrived from that country with such levity.—(Hear, hear. )
They would be comp-lled to s a adopt ich measure as this.
The Noble Duke on the cross benches, and others, declare that
they were taken by
surprisein this tneasue. could only
say, that if they were deaf and blind
to the intentions of Sir
R. Peel, the c:iuntry was not..--.( Hear, hear.) Upon el ques-
tions affecting the great interests
trests of the country, we have had
a Government strong enough to. carry out its measures, and an
Opposition unable to thwart it.—(
t ear. hear.) It was not
to be supposed that Sir R. Peel threw Hrew wide open the gates of
free trade merely for the purpose of letting in asses, gums, r:n I
other things, and that he intended to(kieieeparoutitahe most import-
ant
of all, the food of the people.—(Hear.
standing all. the statements of Sir J. Graham'' ordtheNe°";tisttilohe-f
the high price of prow sions on the morals and conditionffeoe
people, the protectionists, deaf to all his statements, raised the
cry of protect:on to native industry. Real native industry re-
quired no protection ; they needed not their new-bornsympathies or their worn-out legislation. The manufacturers
had as great an interest it the quiet and welfare of the country
as any Noble Lord in the House.—( Hear, hear.) All the in-
dignation against freedom of trade must therefore return to i s
source. He defied any one to sl.ow that the labourers had
been better off than they would have been had there been ncne
of these protecting laws. A Noble Lord had described
very beautifully the clear air and the blue ay

under which the labourers lived. He did not say
a word about the wages of the labourer.--(Hear, hear.)
When he lecke(' at the state of the labourer, their want of
education, their hopeless life of toil. their struggles for exist-
ence, he did not think they could sink any lower than their
present situation.— Hear, hear.) With regard to the tenant-
farmers, he believed that the man who possessed the know-
ledee of cultivating his ground, who would adoptthe new
discrOverif s, and not adhere to the old-fashioned implements
of their ancestors, would have nothing to fear, even if the
country were to become inundated by that immense supply of
food, which one would really think was to be borne on the
waves
sauogf thehte rSuppose ocean, and
h delivered a
th
t this inundation
gratisu nd
atatwere to take
every ma n, doer.ta
r L
place, and that hundreds of thousands of people were to be all
at once cursed with en abundant supply of food, he did not
think that even that was a very serious evil. HP believed
that this question was made entirely a lardlord's question, and
that all the objeetion to the measure aro•e from that quarter,
There was nothing of this outcry when the du y was touched
on cotton, hats, wool, silk, or other things; it was only when
wheat, oats, cattle, oxen, and apples were touched, that they
heard these bitter complain s against the Government, and
heard of men deserting their colours, and deceiving their friends.
—( Hear, hear.) All tt e opposition to this measure had been
an abortion, whether arising from speeches, newspapers, or
even from that central focus of protectionist wisdom, No. 17,
Bend-street—(Laughter)—or whether arising from that grave
assemblage lately held in Willis's rooms, when all the expenses
were liberally paid of those who wished to spend a day in Lon-
don.—( No, no, and Hear, hear.) He did not believe that
farmers had generally been seized with the panic to such a dee
gree, that they immediately disposed of their farms. The con-
trary had taken place, and if any of their Lordships who now
opposed the Bill, were to come forward and say that they would
be willing to sell their estates fortwo years' less purchase than
the general value, he thought their only difficulty would be in
selecting a purchaser from among the numerous applicants.—
( Hear, hear. ) The present corn-laws he believed, imposed a
tax of 10,000,001;1. on the people of this country, not one
farthing of which found its way into the Treasury, or even into
the pockets of the landowners; if it did, they would cs r a'nly
have more reason for supporting the present system.
He had always exceeded the limits which he proposed to him-
self, yet he would beg that they would bear with him, while
he would advert to the system of meeting hostile tariffs with
hostility. The only safe policy for any country to pursue was
that of each nation pursuing the course which appeared the best
adapted to their own interests, and if England (lid that they
would give an example which other countries must follow.
He knew that it would be urged that nations
would send their goods to us and demand bullion
in return ; hut was that possible? Could such
a thing continue ?—( Hear, bear.) No; certainly they might
send their corn, but they should keep it if they (lid not choose
to adopt an equitable system of exchange. The speeches
delivered in the French Chambers might el o be quoted, hut
he would say these speeches were quite right, delivered as
they were on the eve of a general election. They did not
create any apprehension in his mind, as a nation so en-
lightened as the French would riot be long :n discovering th• t
free trade was for their interest. They were atenit to adopt a
policy which would extend their intercourse among nations,
and which would shower upon them the blessings of peace.
Lord C 111 N RVON said there was never a time when the
present measure was likely to inflict such permanent evil upon
the country. He could see no indication in any country in
Europe pointing to free trade. Those eoun'ries which had
a .opted the principle were only minor states, like Naples or
Sardinia. The Noble Lord opposite appeared to think that
for the period contemplated the vittli y of the nation was at
stake, and that it could only be saved by the opening of the
sorts. That Noble Lord also was in favour of the fixed duty
in 1841, but he admitted at the same time that in a period or
scarcity it would be necessary to remove that restriction. But
he (Lord Carr arvon) could not understand how, under all the
,drcumstances, any British Minister could propose to a British
Parliament such a proposition as the repeal of the corn-laws,
under the circumstances he had been describing; and if such a
man there were, he did not think they could brand him with
sufficient censure ; and it was such a measure as in such a state
of things would, he thought, command the sympathies of the
people of this country with the people of Ireland for a repeal of
the union. With regard to the price of labour, he need not
tell their Lordships that the demand was regulated by the sup-
ply, and if they should take a great quantity of land out of
cultivation, the wages of the labouring population would be
proportionably reduced ; and whilst the independent farmer
might he enabled to withstand the shock, the poor farmer
would fall under it. He had heard it said that more tears had
been shed over the currency measure of 1819 than had ever
flowed from the consequences of the bloodiest field of battle ;
hut his opinion was that this measure would cause more flow of
tears than either. They had heard of lands going out of cul-
tivation. His Noble Friend who introduced the Bill last night
had spoken of such a circumstance. It had been stated, and
confidently stated no later than June last, that in the event of
the abolition of the corn-laws, no less than 2,0(10,000
of acres of the best land in England would be thrown out of
cultivation, and 1,000,000 people thrown out of employment.
They were now informed that foreign competition would
stimulate domestic industry and improve the condition of the
eountry. So far would it be from improving the condition of
the country that a friend of his, who before the proposal of the
present measure had been prepared to lay out 120,0001. in
agricultural pursuits, now paused, stating that although he had
not any great apprehension of the ultimate effect of the mea-
sure, he should feel it his duty to watch the course of the
present Bill. There were numerous instances of a similar
nature, in which gentlemen, who had been prepared to invest
considerable sums of money in the cultivation of land, now
declined, and with a caution by no means blameable
risking any money until the present Bill was decided cee way
or the other. He did not think that the people of England
would be likely to be benefited by free trade at the time when
they needed it the most, for in case of any sudden demand for
corn being made on the United States, those states might not
be prepared to meet it, and of course the high prices would be
continued in the time of scarcity. During the last
hsttte price
yer
had
there had been an increasing demand for corn, yet
gradually decreased. During the last 30 years the fall in price
had been as much as 34 per cent. LI all other instances in
which an increased demand for a particular article had taken
place, that demand was followed by a slow hut sure fall in
price. His Noble Friend who introduced the Bill had alluded to
the great increase which had taken place in the prosperity of the
agricultural interest ; but he ascribed it to the influence of
some such measure as he was then introducing. He (Lord
Carnarvon) should rather have ascribed it to the influence 01
the system of protection then existing, and which in his
opinion was the only one calculated to benefit the agricultural
interest. There was another point to which he had not yet
alluded, that was the dependence which the measure would
cause on foreign grain. He admitted that during the heaviest
war in which England was ever engaged the disturbances did
not entirely prevent the importation of foreign eorn into
England; but when his friend went intoparticulars, and referred
to the Near 1810, he felt it necessary to remark that at that
time there happened to an extremely abundant, harvest in France.
There was also a very scarce harvest in England, and the ut-
most vigilance could not prevent the surplus provision from
finding its way into England. Did it not occur to those who so
sir, nuonsly supported the present measure, that the same argu-
ments which existed in its iavour in 1841 existed in 1810 arid

1814, and could have been as easily then as now brought for-
ward in support of any measui e like the present one. He very
much regretted that no penalty attached itself to sudd'en and
violent departure from long upheld principles.—( Hear, hear.)
The Government had gone to the battle-field of election under
the banner of protection, and they now suddenly changed their
opinions, and came forward and proposed a reduction of duty
which was virtually no protection at all.—( Hear, hear-) If
his Noble Friend had professed the principles which he had so
lately and so suddenly professed, on going before his agricul-
tural constitu.ney, they never would have wielded their fran-
chises to return a candidate in avowed opposition to their own
opinions. There never w s a Government so well able to do
good, •r possessed the power of being so really useful
as the present Government, ansi how had they exercised that
power? Had the counsels of his Friend, the Noble Duke, and
his Noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies, been listened
to in November last, how much better would it hays been for
the country at the present moment, and how much better
would it be for it in future. Were such principles as the
present of long growth? No ; for not very long since the
(louse of Commons had decided by a very large majority
against such principles as the present ; and now they had
decided, by a majority equally large, in favour of these prin•
eiples—the majority being called by his Noble Friend a
mark of the strong sense of the country. Ought not her
.%lajesty's Government, instead of leading the Commons into
such a measure as the present, to have said to them at once,
that they had changed their opinions, and have asked them it
their cunstituences had changed theirs ? Ought not such a
measure as this to have been referred to the decision of the

English people in general, whose interests were so deeply
concerned in it? Did not they hear the voices
and opinions of the yeomanry who had existed for so many
centuries under their families? No, they let. that cry come to
them in vain, and they only prayed that they might not be
virtually blotted out of the representation of their country.
They did not ask them to come to any final decision on this
mensure, th ty only asked that they might not be suddenly ex-
posed to the operation of a law which was likely to involve to
so enormous an extent their lands, and the lands of every man
in the country. A Noble Earl at the conclusion of his speech
had said that no prolonged discussion ought to interfere with
!he speedy passing of this measure. If a measure were to he
considered as passed before it came to their Lordships' House
they had better not discuss it at all, but throw away the mask
of debate ; and they would better consult their
own dignity by hereafter standing aside in humble
and obedient silence to the edicts that came to them.
Were they prepared to show to the country that they could
scornfully reject at the hand of one set of men that which they
would unwillingly accept at the hands of another ? Would they 1
show that they were to legislate by party measures, and in 1
deference to party ? If they did so their day of strength was
passed, and they would prove to the world, and to their new
masters, the League, that they were only fit to encumber with
with useless splendour the land which they no longer benefited.
Several Noble Lords here started up, and a scene of some
confusion ensued. in the midst of which,
Lord NIALMSBURY commenced speaking in a loud tone
of voice, so as effectually to surmount the clamour which sur-
rounded him. After much laughter, order was restored.
Thr Neble Lord said that he had made it a rule to address
their Lordships as seldom as possible, but having only ad-
dressed their Lordships three times during the last four years,
he would venture to trespass on them now, and he would con-
dense the little he had to say into as small a compass as possible.
He would answer the observations of the Noble Earl who had
called the present Bill a landl, rids' question. In his own parish,
which consisted of 42,000 acres, there were only five proprie-
tors beside himself who possessed more than 500 acres, and
there were 246 who possessed only 15 acres, and on those poor
men the fatal consequences of the measure would fall. He
would not remind their Lordships of the sentiments of Adam
Smith, Ricardo, and of Sir Robert Peel in 1842 on this ques-
tion. He beggek to remind the Right Rev Prelates that they
differed from their clergy on this point. Their incomes were
fixed, but the incomes of their clergy were dependent on the
price of corn. The Noble Lord then called the attention of the
House to the danger to be apprehended in time of war, and to
the treats' concluded in the time of Qiieen Anne with Frede-
rick the 'Great. The latter monarch closed the port of Dantzic
against the English, and deprived them of the supply of corn.
He did not wish to impute any dishonourable or dishonest
Motives to the Prime .tifnisrtetrh lapse of 3
ne
intrcnluco years,ing he should
this measure.
But it was strange that after
av ce infie cde.
Was that the minister hathdeybecwnotTldi
discover for that period theforcou,Antitroym
their feelings and their
English Peer to bow to the un-
Bill had been sent up hteocdonscienees ?—( Hear, hear.) The
tehnattedHthouat it was
House byaamolaejaorrityofthe
House of Commons, butmajority.
He should feel it his duty as an
disputed majority of his countrymen.
his
anxiety
to address the
Earl of H ADDINGTON said
House did not arise from the feeling that he hg
general nature of the subject. He could assure the
the
olifotniste
e e
that it was with the greatest reluctance he rose on the
th,, Noble
occasion. He entirely concurred in the opinion
Earl who had just sat down, that public opinion and consis-
tencyt of character should be preserved together. At the
question was merely a matter of expediency, andin-
volved no moral or political revolution, be felt no
ddperiffieaslceuon:tteyGx:ogyroeerirdiamitseegdnratce in avowing a (hangs of opinion.
He had for a number of years, even before the formation of the
thought that the interests upontliat thereri was a great_
been
feeling of
f opinion
prevailing subject of the
corn-laws, and' never, hoer
aagsrsitiernei(tin ie
erp Lordships,end„ti upo n protec-
tion.—( ehee.
tion.—( Hear, h
fax
al to
say in
public) he
et NiVlealsdt
opinionsrit t he
ine
aliccaodrdlalenvccer
wgoitnhethsoe