The Sun.
London, England, 1870-06-29 00:00:00

THE EUROPEAN ASSURANCE SOCIETY.

IMPERIAL PAiLIA,i EN F.

in tee uourt of Vice-Chancellor James, to-day, a
petition was presented by Mr. Crowe, a shareholder in
the European Assurance Society, for the compulsory
winding-up of the society, under the provisions of the
Companie' Act of 1862.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Tms DAY.

The Speaker took the chair at a quarter-past twelve.
The attendance was not large, and some delay occurred
n making a House.
Dr. EnEwrrt gave notice that he should move for leave
co bring ia a bill further to amend the Sanitary Act of

Mr. E. E. Kay, Q.C., and Mr. Napier Higgins
appeared for the petitioner; Mr. Fry, Q.C., and Mr. F.
C. J. Millar for the society ; and Mr. Roupell for
664 shareholders, representing £172,600, and 3,213 policy-
holders, representing policies to the amount of £928,711,
to oppose the application.
Mr. Kay opened the case by remarking that the peti-
tion was for the compulsory winding-up of a company
which was the subject of two similar petitions before the
court in October last. Before adverting to the merits of
the case, he desired to call attention to an attempt which
had already been made to prejudice the mind of the
court against the petition, and point out the considerable
disadvantage under which both he, as counsel,
and the petitioner were labouring in prosecuting the
inquiry. Immediately after the presentation of the peti-
tion steps were taken to secure evidence, which, in cases
of that description, was that only which could be regarded
as valuable or reliable—the evidence of witnesses who
knew most about the affairs of the company, but who,
from their intimate connection with the society, were
most reluctant to make any material disclosures. Until
the petition was presented no steps could be
taken to procure evidence of that kind, and
then the most expeditious mode of procedure
was to apply for the appointment of a special
examiner. That plan was adopted in this instance, and
the most valuable evidence which he possessed in support
of the petitioner had been secured in that way. The
examination, however, was not completed in sufficient
time, and it was a fact that at the moment he was without
a brief of the most important portion of the testimony,
and that the petitioner had been unable to make the cross
examinations he had intended to make by way of answer
to certain allegations which had been made.
The Vice-Chancellor : The petitioner ought to be
prepared with evidence before taking proceedings. The
petition was presented on the 6th June, and it is now the
29th, and under the circumstances ample time has elapsed
for conducting a special examination.
Mr. Kay urged that he was labouring under the greatest
possible disadvantage, and that the greatest expedition
has been used with the view of completing special exami-
nation. Enormous interests were involved, and it was im-
portant that every inquiry should be instituted in order
to ascertain whether it was just and equitable that the
society should be allowed to waste the assets of the share-
holders or be placed immediately in liquidation.
The Vice-Chancellor : I am sorry to be of personal in-
sonvenience to counsel, but must decide the hearing must
now go on.
Mr. Kay then stated that the company, as was the
Albert Life Assurance Company, was composed of a con-
glomeration of other companies, having no less than
thirty-three original organisations amalgamated with it.
There were 312,340 shares of £2los. each, and the society
had recently been registered under the Companies' Act of
1862. In the year 1868 the policies of the society
amounted to £8,700,000, besides which the society was
liable upon annuities amounting to between £16,000 and
£17,000 per annum, which liability was estimated to be
no less than £140,000, and was to be added to the
possible liability upon policies. At the present time the
shareholders altogether numbered 1,655, and it was esti-
mated thad the company had received from one source
and another since the commencement about £3,500,000.
The assets now existing and represented as being valuable
—how far they were valuable he would afterwards shew
—were £371,000. When the matter was before the court
on a former occasion the nature of the balance sheet pub-
lished for the year 1868 created some discussion. Since
that time the balance sheet of 1869 had been issued, and
that disclosed the state of affairs down to the termination
of the year.
The Vice-Chancellor, interrupting Mr. Kay, inquired
whether any attempt had been made to obtain the deci-
sion of the general body of the shareholders in the
matter.

f):).
LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANIES BILL.
The House went into 'committee on the Life Assur-
ance Companies Bill, but, judging from the meagre
attendance, the subject had very little interest to hon.
gendemen. Mr. Synan, who has not been heard since
the Irish Laud Bill passed its final stage in the
Lower House, once more raised his voice in protest. He
opposed a provision in the third clause, that the deposit
should be returnel on £40,009 having been received in

premiums inasmuch as the deposit he contended would

prove delasive. He thought that if there was to
be a guaranteed deposit it ought to be a continuing
guarantee, and he alluded to the recent lamentable failures
of assurance companies.—Mr. S. Cave informed the hon.
-leather for County Limerick that the object of the clause
was to prevent the formation of rotten companies for the
Purpose of being sold. The hon. member for County
Limerick, however, was not convinced, and he maintained
that the deposit. of represented the money of per-
sons starting the company, and it ought to be for the
benefit of the policy-holders and the public. It would
shew, he reasoned, that the promoters were not men
of straw, and it would be considered an evidence of their
solvency.—Mr. Shaw Lefevre thought it would
be a trifling element of security, but it was not worth
while contending for. The amendment was negatived
and the clause agreed to. Mr. Sheridan rose with all the
confidence imaginable to address the committee on the
clause, but he was immediately called to order by Mr.
Dodson, the chairman. The hon. member for Dudley,
hoWever, remained standing, when the chairman in most
emphatic terms called out " Order, order." Mr. Sheridan
looked irresolute. He managed to get out " Then, sir, I
am very sorry to say—" looked some,--hat con-
fusedly at the chairman, and then sat down.—
A somewhat animated discussion ensued on thc seventh
clause, which provided that every office should cause an
investigation to be made into its financial condition
every five years by an actuary. Mr. Anderson moved
an amendment that this requirement should only apply
to companies formed &ter the passing of the Act, and
that those already established should be compelled to
Make such inquiry once every ten years.—Mr.
I\l`Laren thought the amendment would practically
give the existing companies a monopoly and. im-
pose corresponding hardships upon new companies.
—Mr. Cave thought it would be well to make the exception

proposed, and the hon. member for the Glasgow and
Aberdeen Universities had given notice of an amendment
which practically had the same end in view. The
majority of the committee were disposed to accede to
the proposal of the member for Glasgow, but a
di vision was taken, when the r seendment was
carried by Si to 1G votes.—Mr. Tiowring sug-
gested the difficulty of defining what " actuary ''
meant, and, inasmuch as the seventh clause was to pro
vide against bubble companies, he moved that "an
actuary" should be omitted, and " a professional actuary
of not less than sevs _i years' standing " inserted instead.—
Mr. S. Cave co not accept the proposition, and perti-
nently asked, " 'What is a professional actuary ? " and
added, " there is no professional actuary." The mem-
ber for Exeter had a supplemental amendment, which
provided that unless the actuary should be at
the time of the passing, of the Act the actuary
of an established company, ho should be a mem
ber of the Institute of Actuaries of Groat Britain
and Ireland, or of the Faculty of Actuaries in
Scotland.—Mr. Cave said ho had hoped that the actuaries
might have entitled themselves to Parliamentary recog-
nition by applying for a charter ; and Mr. Bowling said he
fully comprehended the difficulty of bringing that body
under the Act. The secretary to the Board 'of Trade, if
they adopted the amendment proposed, in . the
second instance by Mr. Bowring, it would be
by a side wind, giving a legal status to the society
of Actuaries, to which any person might belong on
paying a subscription.—Mr. Gilpin pointed out the un-
wisdom of creating the impression that Parliament had
made assurance associations safe by the appointment of
an actuary. They had had instances where, although
actuaries had been employed, the societies had gone
wrong. His opinion was that the shareholders and others
concerned would cease to exercise that vigilance which
alone was their security.—Mr. Monk thought they could
not define an actuary in the schedule, and on the other
hand Mr. Sheridan believed anybody knew
what an actuary was, Although he had no
legal status his attention had been directed to
vital statistics. Mr. Bowring intimated that
his object, which was to provoke a discussion, having been
attaineA. he should withdraw his amendment, although he
hops-1 that in the definition clause the hon. gentlemen
try to meet his views.—With the view of making
the bill as complete as possible, and of affording every
safeguard to the people, Mr. W. Shaw proposed to add
that when the investigation and report on the
state of the company's finances took place the latter should
apply to the Board of Trade, who should appoint
an auditor or auditors, who should have ample power to
examine the accounts and the directors and officers of the
company, and that he should report whether a correct
view of its affairs had been given. The hon. gentleman
also proposed in his amendment that .the person so
appointed should report on the nature and value of the
assets of the companies.—The proposition did not com-
mend itself to the committee, and Mr. Lefevre, on the
part of the Board of Trade, opposed it. He pointed out
that it greatly extended the operation of the
bill in, as he believed, a dangerous direction.
In point of fact the Board had not the proper officers to
do such work, and instead of greater security there would
be less.—Mr. Synan opposed the proposal, on the ground
chiefly that it was compulsory. He did not think it was
necessary to have a second examination of the company's
condition, unless those interested asked for an independent
investigation. The hon. member for Bandon, finding
there was no possibility of carrying his amendment, with-
drew it.—Several other amendments having been consi-
dered, Mr. S. Cave moved that the various companies
should post their reports to policy-holders, but the propo-
sition was opposed principally on the score of expense.—
Mr. M`Laren supported the amendment, and called
attention to the great expense which insurance com-
panies incurred in the matter of advertising
and printing, and Mr. Cave, said it was absurd
to suppose that such companies could not
afford or should not send a statement of affairs
to a person who was interested in them to the extent of £lOO
or snore. It was a species of Conservatism in trade which
he had never before heard of. A division was taken when
the amendment wc_s lost by 119 against 46 votes.—Mr.
Shaw moved an amendment which would render it
imperative that the companies should send their
accounts without being applied to.—Sir. J. C. Lawrence
assured the committee, and he spoke from experience
when he said so, that many persons would have been saved
from ruin if there had been made a clause which made it
imperative to deliver accounts.—Mr. Russell-Gurney
said it was utterly impossible to send it to a person in
Japan, whereupon Mr. Candlish, the member for Sun-
derland, suggested that that difficulty had been got rid of
by the adoption of the words of tho hon. member
for Edinburgh, "the United Kindom." After the subject
had been thoroughly discussed, the amendment was
negatived.—Mr. Synan moved an amendment that instead
of the consent of one-fourth of the policy-holders, two-
fifths should be obtained before an application was made
to the court to sanction a transfer,—Mr. S. Cave pointed
out the difficulty which stood in the way of the adoption
of the amendment, namely, the great number of policies
which were held in trust. The amendment was withdrawn.
Mr. Anderson called attention to the seventeenth clause
which provided that one or more policy holders or share-
holders should petition for the winding up of a com-
pany. He proposed to amend the clause by substitut-
ing the words " not less than five shareholders or ten
policy holders." The hon. member remarked that, how-
ever solvent the company might be, 6he shaiss would
become utterly unmasketable, and all payments on
behalf of deceased persons would be stopped until an
investigation had been made. Mr. S. Cave
thought the proposition would have the effect which
the hon- member was afraid of, and the Secretary to the
Board of Trade pointed out that there was nothing at
present to prevent one shareholder going before the Court
of Chancery, and the object of the clause was simply to
determine what was insolvency.—Mr. Anderson withdrew
his amendment, as he had no desire to divide the com-
mittee.—The remaining clauses having been agreed to,
and some few alterations made in the schedule, the bill
passed through committee and was reported with amend-
ments.

Mr. Kay replied in the negative.
Mr. Fry said that one-half of the shareholders, in
fact, were desirous of proceeding with the business of the
company.
Mr. Kay observed that that must be the case, although
the society was alleged to be in a state of hopeless in-
solvency. But he would ehew that the existing assets
were not by any means sufficient to meet the existing lia-
bilities, and it was not only just and equitable, but ex-
tremely desirable, that the society should be wound up.
The Vice-Chancellor : But I would prefer to ascertain
what the opinion of the general body of shareholders is
on the question, unless it could be proved that the
opinion is withheld by some fraudulent or unfair means.
Mr. Kay continued to say that the last-mentioned
balance-sheet was framed on a different principle to the
former. Since the presentation of the last petition the
directors had taken some steps to diminish the current
expenses of working the society. The constitution of the
board had also been altered, by calling upon a number of
directors to resign, and appointing others ; and in the
balance-sheet certain items which were objected to on a
former occasion, and held to be improperly included as
forming the assets of the company, had been omitted. They
were indebted on sundry items £79,250185. 9d., whilst the life
claims which were admitted and were payable during the
next three months amounted to £51,900. At the moment
the balance sheet was made out the actual liabilities were
£98,574. The policies were payable within three months
—therefore if that amount were multiplied by four the
probable claims for the year would be ascertained. On
the other side of the account the assets were indicated,
and the first sum was £33,000 in consols, which
he would satisfy the court was specifically
appropriated to meet Government and other guarantees,
and being so, must be devoted to that object before it was
available to meet any other liability. The same remark
applied in the case of the items of Indian Government
debentures, and the Melbourne Government debentures,
the latter being specially hypothecated to meet claims in
Australia. The remaining assets consisted of mort-
gages, life interests, and reversions, and some of those
were due from companies which were actually in
course of liquidation, and from which, therefore, very
little indeed would be realised. One of the companies
was that of the Albert Life Assurance, and the evidence
was that not much was to be expected from that source.
Another asset was in the shape of re-assurances, but the
larger part of those re-assurances were from the unfortu-
tunate Albert Office, and although they were inserted
for the full amount, it was obvious that scarcely anything
would be obtained, and on the whole he was justified in
saying that there was really nothing in the shape of
available assets upon which the directors could put their
hands to meet claims.
The Vice-Chancellor : Have any accruing claims not
been met ?

Mr. Millar : Not a single one.
Mr. Kay said he had contrary evidence as to that.
The testimony went to shew that the claims had been
mitigated to an extent which had occasioned a great deal
of scandal among the officers of the society themselves.
The claims had been mitigated because of the difficulty to
procure funds, and a large amount of uncalled capital
had been called upon, because even with the current in-
come, which ought to be sufficient, there was not
enough to meet the claims. A great number of the
items were purely fictitious, and ought not to be included
in the assets at all. The result of all this was that during
the last year and-a-half large calls had been made upon the
society to provide capital to meet their necessities. By
no means the whole of the amount which was called upon
had been paid, and the directors were so aware of the con-
sequences that would accrue from an attempt to enforce
payment, and of the utter hopelessness of it if any such
attempt were made, that no endeavours had been put for-
ward to compel payment.
The Vice-Chancellor : Is the petitioner one of those who
have not paid ?
Mr. Millar : There are two calls due from the peti-
tioner.
The Vice-Chancellor : Then I won't proceed with the
petition until he has paid his calls.
Mr. Fry : By postponing the petition, the court would,
I think, be inflicting great harm upon the society.
The Vice Chancellor : If the society wish it,l will go on
with the petition, but I object entirely to a man who does
not himself perform his duty, coming here seeking to
compel others to do their duty. It is a most monstrous
thing, and I never will give a winding-up order under such
circumstances.
Mr. Kay said the fact was that the petitioner sold his
shares before any call was made, but the company refused
to let him off. Under that state of things he had not paid
the calls ; and, moreover, as there was an enormous arrear
of calls allowed to be outstanding, he did not see any
reason why he should be made a scapegoat by the directors
who had neglected their duty.
Mr. Fry : Unless the court is prepared to dismiss the
petition, the society would prefer that it was not allowed
to stand over.
The Vice-Chancellor : It being admitted that Mr. Crowe
has left calls unpaid, I do, on that ground, dismiss the
petition with costs.
It was intimated that an appeal from his Honour's de-
cision would be made immediately to the House of Lords.

A GREAT JEWEL ROBBERY FRUSTRATED.
An attempt was made at an early hour this morning to
break into the premises of Mr. John Bennett, jeweller, of
Cheapside. One of the windows in Crown court was
broken, and several iron bars in front of it were wrenohed
out of their places. The burglars, however, were dis-
turbed, and did not succeed in carrying anything away.
The window was filled with gold chains, some of them of
great value.

THE METROPOLITAN DISTRICT RAIL-
WAY.

The directors of the Metropolitan District Railway have
decided to adopt the plans and recommendations of their
engineer, Mr. Fowler, for their City station. The station
will be at the junction of Queen Victoria-street and
Cannon-street, with the entrance at the corner of
Cannon-street, and in view of the Mansion House and the
Royal Exchange. The contractors will commence the
work forthwith, and it is anticipated that the station
(which will be called Mansion-house Station) will be com-
pleted and opened for traffic in the beginning of the next
year. It is intended on the opening of this station to run
trains in each direction at least every three minutes.

DEFEAT OF THE COLONEL.—This famous horse,
winner of the Liverpool Grand National in two successive
years, ran for the Summer Steeplechase at Berlin on the
19th June, and was beaten a length and a half by Jury-
man. First and second ran at even weights. Three others
started.

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, J UNE 29, 1870.

SALE OF LIQUORS ON SUNDAY BILL.

Mr. RYLAND moved the second reading of this bill,
the object of which was to further limit the sale of liquors
on Sunday.
Alderman LAWRENCE opposed the bill, and talked it out,
as the debate ceased at a quarter to six, in accordance
with the standing order.
The other orders were disposed of, and the Speaker
left the chair as there was no member present to move the
adjournment of the House..

THE MONEY MARKET

AND
COM MERCIAL INTEL LIG ENCE.

CITY, Two o'CLocx.

Business to-day was inactive, but prices for Government
Securities remained firm at their quotations. Railways
are rather better. Foreign Bonds generally steady.
Consols are now, 921 to 921 do. account, 921 ; do.
3 per Cent. Reduced, 921 to 92} ; do. New, 924 to 921;
Exchequer Bills, par 5s prem. ; India Four per Cents.,
102} to 1021.
The Railway Market—Metropolitan are 702 to 711
Great Eastern is 38i ; London and Brighton, 431 ;
Caledonian, 771 ; South-Eastern 761 ;
Manchester,
Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, 52 to 521; Great Northern,
1221 ; ditto (A), 132; North Eastern, 1451 Midland; 1451 ;
London and North-Western, 129 to 1291 ;
1301 ; Lancashire and Yorkshire, 1321 to 1331; Great
Western, 711 to 721.
In the Foreign Market Brazilian Bonds of 1865 are
91} to 92 ; Egyptian Seven per Cents. of 1864, 911; ditto
of 1868, 821 to 83 ; Spanish of 1867, 311 to 311 ; ditto of
1869, 311 to 311; ditto Quicksilver, Ito prem.; Peru-
vian, 911 to 921 ; Turkish Five per Cents. of 1865, 531 to
532 ; ditto of 1869, 631 ; and Five per Cent. Italian of
1865, 87 to 89.•
In Bank shares Alliance are quoted 141 to 151 ; Anglo-
Austrian are quoted 16 to 18 prem. ; Chartered Mercan-
tile, 30 to 31 ; Consolidated,ltofprem ; Imperial Ottoman,
141 to 1 prem. ; London and County, 501 ; London
and Westminster, 611 to 621; London Joint Stock, 34
to 35 ; and Union of London, 391 to 401.
Telegraph Shares—Anglo-American, 151 to 161 ;
British Indian, 81 ; China, 3to 21 dis. ; Falmouth 91;
French Cable, 141 to 151; and Construction and Main-
tenance, 271 to 271.
In miscellaneous stocks, Fore-street Warehouse are
quoted at 5 to 6 prem.; Peninsular and Oriental 1867
(New), 51 dis.
The America, from New York, has brought £21,900 for
England, and the Mandingo, from the Coast of Africa,
£2,414.
The Manchester markets this NI eek have been opened
with a quiet business, at steady prices.
The advices from Brazil by the present mail mention
that the Minister of Agriculture has adjudged the con-
tracts for carrying the mails along the Brazilian coast and
down to the River Plate to the Liverpol and the Ame-
rican steamboat lines in preference to the old native com-
pany. The same Minister, it is said, is pressing through
the Legislature the bill to redeem the Government pledge
to relieve the Pernambuco Railway, " notwithstanding
the hot opposition of several deputies."
The report of the Anglo-Mediterranean Telegraph
Company (Limited), to be submitted to the extraordinary
general meeting on the 6th of July, states that the Board
are of opinion that the time has arrived for making the
necessary arrangements for duplicating the company's
main line, and that they have accordingly entered into a
provisional arrangement with the Telegraph Construction
and Maintenance Company for laying such duplicate
cable by December in the present year for the sum of
£lBO,OOO. It is proposed to meet this outlay, together
with the necessary engineering expenses, by the creation
of a further capital of £170,000, to be divided into 26,000
shares of £6 10s. each, and 100 shares of £lO each, and by
the appropriation of £ll,OOO from the reserve fund,
making together £lBl,OOO.
The half-yearly report of the Bank of New South
Wales, presented at Sydney on the 27th of April, shewed
an available total of £79,855, including a previous
balance of £4,763, and announced a dividend at the rate
of 15 per cent per annum, leaving £4,855 to be carried
forward.
At the half-yearly meeting of the Bank of New Zealand
at Auckland, on the 27th of April, the report shewed an
available total of £45,513, including a previous balance of
£4,539, and a dividend was declared at the usual rate of
10 per cent., in addition to a bonus of ss. per share, equal
together to 15 per cent. per annum, and leaving £8,013 to
be carried forward.
In consequence of the Spanish Government not having
complied with the request that the Three per Cent
bondholders of 1841 should be allowed to retain their old
bonds, the Council of Foreign Bondholders have applied
to the Spanish Government that these bonds shall bear a
distinctive stamp, and the numbers be registered at the
Stock Exchange. They are verbally informed at the
Spanish Financial Agency that these two requirements
will be provided for.

MARKETS.—THIs DAY.

THIS MORNING'S N

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY.
THE EDUCATION BILL.
The Elementary Education Bill was again the first of
the orders of the day, and immediately after questioning
time, the House went into committee on the measure,
resuming the discussion on clause 7. The attendance of
lion. members was at the beginning of the discussion very
small, and the treasury bench was only occupied by Mr.
Cardwell, Mr. Forster, the Vice President of the Council,
and Mr. Glyn. Mr. Gladstone made his
appearance about half-past two, just as Lord
Robert Montagu was endeavouring to persuade
the committee to adopt an amendment which
stood in his name, that the Revised Code should be put
in the schedule of the bill. There was, however, a
formidable little knot of the irreconcileables below the
gangway. The member for Huntingdonshire contended
that they were asked to pass .a clause without know-
ing what the new code next April might be, although
it was certain that the new code might utterly alter the
character of the bill. He thought the committee were
being hoodwinked and asked to legislate in the dark. His
object was to give security to the promoters of voluntary
schools. The noble lord stated that an acquiescence to
his proposal would prevent agitation, and he alluded to
divisions in the Liberal party. As the noble lord resumed
Mr. Vernon Harcourt rose, but he had to give way to
Mr. Gladstone, who, with a mixture of sarcasm and
humour, said the humanity of the noble lord to the
Liberal party deserved immediate acknowledg-
ment. He compassionated the schismatic state
in which he found the Liberal party. " But,
added the Premier, " probable his lordship derived his
inspiration from what had occurred in another place a few
nights ago, and had obtained a lively sense of schism in a
party." The Premier was loudly applauded on making this
" palpable hit." Mr. Gladstone went on to state that
the demand of the noble lord would, if acceded
to, be fatal to the bill on account of the ob-
stacle of time and other impediments. His lordship
asked them to give certainty with regard to the aid to be
given to voluntary schools equal to the certainty which
the bill gave in regard tothe rate supported schools. It
was simply impossible, remarked the Premier, by any
process except one, and that was not only to set out in
the bill the whole conditions upon which it was to
be administered, but to likewise provide that
the sum and disbursements necessary for the purpose of
affording the aid should be charged upon the Consolidated
Fund, and surely his lordship did not intend that should be
the case. In the course of the debate Lord Henley, whilst
he hoped that the amendment would not be pressed to a
division, expressed an opinion that they ought to have
had something definite in relation to the subject laid
down. Mr. Foster opposed the proposition. His first
objection was that it was an inconvenience
to have any code in any Education Bill,
and it could not be supposed that they had yet
obtained the best means of promoting and stimulating
education. He said it was impossible to extemporise a
code for the session which should prove a permanent re-
vised code.—The leader of the Opposition hoped his noble
friend would hesitate to press his amendment. Unlike
those who had preceded him on his side of the committee,
the right hon. gentleman did not think that
on the whole they could receive a more satis-
factory assurance from the Government than they
had already received. "It must necessarily," he ex-
claimed, " I think be in the nature of the Bill before
us a moral assurance." This generous admission was
properly appreciated, and the Liberals were pretty loud
in ther expressions of satisfaction at the course which he
had adopted. Of course, after such a statement from his
leader, Lord R. Montagu intimated that he would
not persevere in pressing his amendment which
was negatived in the usual way. Dr. Brewer
moved an amendment that the master or mistress of every
rate-supported school should keep a register of every
admission or dismissal, and that the register should in-
dicate the degree and proficiency attained by the scholar.
Contrary to custom, the hon. member for Colchester made
a very short speech. Probably the experience he has
latterly gained has awakened him to a sense of the
folly of occupying the attention of the House for an inordi-
nate time on uninteresting subjects. The proposition was
opposed by Mr. Forster and withdrawn.
Mr. VERNON HARCOURT moved an amendment raising
the principle, which he asked the committe to affirm, that
in every public elementary school in this country the
parents of the children should have some voice in the
management of that school. He wished to avoid, he said-
that most odious contrast between the supremacy
given to influence and wealth, and the com-
parative powerlessness of poverty. He said that
by the bill they were going to sell the birthright
of the parent in the education of the child " for a miser-
able mess of voluntary pottage." The hon. member pro-
duced considerable merriment by this expression, although
the Treasury bench was grave enough, and evidently
unable to see either the force or the fun of it.
Mr. FORSTER opposed the amendment, remarking that
the hon. member was mistaken in supposing that the
parents were unrepresented or had no voice in the manage-
ment. Almost all the school deeds which the Education
Department required to see before giving a building grant,
pre-supposed an election of managers, which was generally
brought so low as to make it quite possible for the
parents to have a share in the management.
Colonel BARTTELOT complained of the course adopted
by members below the gangway, especially referring
to the hon. members for Birmingham and Oxford. He
accused them of "producing cases which were never likely
to occur, and which with very rare exceptions, never did
occur." He did not hesitate to say that the religious diffi-
culty would never have been heard of had it not been
put into the mouths of people. He thought it was
simply mischievous to persuade the poor people that
they had a right to have a share in the management
of the schools.
Mr. COWPER TEMPLE disagreed with the hon. mem-
ber for West Sussex as to the latter observation.
He could not, however, vote for the amendment,
although he agreed generally with the object in view.
Mr. WINTERBOTHAM thought the Vice-President did
not fairly apprehend the purport of the amendment. It
was simply that those who were to use and to pay for the
schools should have some share in the management. It
might be true that the parents might not be fit to sit on
the school board, but they were fit to elect it. At any
rate, added the hon. member for Stroud, they
were fit to choose members for that House.
Mr. A. Herbert thought the country would be
of opinion that it was monstrous that the parents
who contributed so much to the school should have no
voice in the management, and that those who contributed
so little should have the entire control. —Lord R. Montagu
asked the member for Oxford if he knew who the parents
were. They consisted, he said, of labourers, game
watchers, and those who could not read and write ;
and if the school were to be well con-
ducted. they would require a more intelligent
Board. Sir Robert Anstruther contended that the
terms of the amendment had been persistently misrepre-
sented, and whilst he gave credit to the noble lord who
had just sat down for his zeal in the cause of education,
he thought it would be much better to give those poor
"hedgers and ditchers" an interest in the welfare of their
children.
At five o'clock Mr. GLADSTONE in a full committee re-
plied to the speeches in favour of the pro-
position. He said that one sixth of the amount
required for the support of the schools by the managers
was the proportion to which it might be possible for them
by fortunate circumstances and wise management to reduce
their pecuniary liabilities. But they were the persons to
undertake every liability, who were to provide the building,
and who were responsible for all mischances. One-sixth,
in fact, was the minimum of that which was demanded
from them according to the views of the Government, and
of the bill, but that one-sixth might extend
indefinitely. They were dealing, as they were told, with
voluntary schools. and he wanted to know whether the
whole idea of voluntary schools could be so handled as to
admit of the compulsory application of Parliamentary
machinery devised by the Executive Government, under
the authority of Parliament, for regulating their
government. The hon. member for Oxford
ought to try to attempt to attain his object by a care-
fully constructed and developed bill. The proposition in-
volved the construction for each school in the country
of a complete representative electoral system.—Mr. Har-
court, in replying, remarked that some of the observations
made on the other side of the committee were very dan-
gerous. He alluded to the alleged unfitness of the
parents, and inquired are they not of our flesh and
blood too ?" The inquiry was received with some applause
rom those of his own way of thinking. The committee