The Sun.
London, England, 1846-01-23 00:00:00

VESTRIES ACT.

but when we take into consideration the vast in-
terests we have in the East, the importance
of such a consummation cannot be overlooked.
I will now draw attention to a subject, respecting
which her Majesty has had the happiness to obtain
the co-operation of a powerful ally in pacification—
I allude to the 'war which has long existed in the
states of Rio de la Plate. These states were ori-
ginally deper.dent, as your Lordships are aware,
and in achieving their independence differences
have arisesa to make a war, which has been one of a most
sanMjizary nature, and one which has been characterised
1:q great barbarities on both sides. The result has
b'sen a great interruption to commerce and trade, and
considerable inconvenience not only to her Ma-
jesty's subjects in this country, but also to merchants
of all the world. It ought, therefore, to become, for
every reason, desirable to terminate it. France, in con-
junction with this country, has determined, and we have
every reason to hope, as the Governments of both coun-
tries are perfectly disinterested, and have no ob-
ject of their own, or any desire to interfere with
their internal relations, that their desire to establish
independence may be successful. I also hope. my Lords,
the freedom of commerce may be restssred, and that
there may be no obstacles in establisising it on a firmer
basis. Your Lordships are uware that, in the course of
the last year, a convention was agreed upon between this
country and France to restrekn the slave trade, and your
Lordships will be glad to learn that it has been brought
into immediate exectVdon by the active co-operation of
both parties. Fe elisig as I do upon the sub-
ject of the slave tsade, it may be comparatively easy
for me to dilate, s,pon the horrors attending it ; but, as I
know your I
.otelships do not require to be roused, and as
information has been afforded on that
I know e•Acry
subject, i .shall refrain from doing so. Neither do I
feel Its 'necessary to enter into any historical account
of ches efforts that have been made by this country to
'aossiish the slave trade. It was at one time considered
'that this country could not devote so much attention to
the subject, and that we ought to assert our own mari-
time rights, but I am glad to hear that so ardent
a desire now prevails to abolish this obnoxious traffic.
But, my Lords, notwithstanding this, the feeling still
exists, and, therefore, it must be satisfactory to know
that France is now, for the first time, actively co-
operating with us for the suppression of this trade. My
Lords, we must all join in that wish which has been ex-
pressed by her Majesty, that the cordial
understanding which subsists between her Majesty
and her powerful allies may continue; and we
may also now hope that the statesmen of both nations
will seek not to rival one another, but be actuated by
no other motive than that of benefiting mankind. It
may be said that we have purchased this co-operation
rather dearly by the sacrifice of the right of search,
which has hitherto been held as essential to the real
currying out any treaty for the suppression of the
slave trade. But when I know that the French Govern-
ment are assailed upon this point for having given way,
and that they are accused of having established a new
right of search, as prejudicial as the former one, the
conclusion I have announced is the only one to which I
could come. For myself, I believe that a
Practical method has been discovered for putting
an end to the traffic in slaves. It must be
a subject of congratulation to your Lordships
that the negotiations have been entrusted to the hands
of tvio men—the Duke de Broglie and Dr. Lushington_
so ably calculated for the purpose. We cannot hope
for an immediate suppression of the 'slave trade, but we
may expect that, by the vigilance of the united
cruisers of France and Great Britain, an effectual
check may be put to this dreadful traffic. My Lords, I
now proceed to that part of her Majesty's speech re•
specting our relations with the United States of
America. Yeur Lordship will, I am sure, cordially
join in the regret expressed by her Majesty that the
conflicting clP.:rns which exist remain unsettled, and
I am sure you will cordially approve of the
stees which her Majesty may take to bring
to an amicable conclusion the differences which exist.
Speaking a common language, and of a common origin,
I hope the negotiations will be attended with complete
success. The progress of the negotiations may be at-
tended with disadvantages, but they will be, I have no
doubt, ultimately overcome. My Lords, a Noble Lord
has carried on a successful negotiation on a former occa-
sion, and I have no doubt but a similar successful
termination will be come to on the subject which
at present threatens the peace of this country. My
Lords, permit me to express my confidence that in his
hands it will be brought to an amicable conclusion. I now
come to that part of her Majesty's Speech which an-
nounces that some increase in the estimates of the army
and navy are necessary ; and in doing so, permit me to
say that it is necessary that such should take place to
protect the increasing and widely-extended :commerce
of this great country. Such will be necessary for
the protection of our commerce, and will
be required to guard also the interests of the
national honour wherever it may be endangered.
I now come to the next part of her Majesty's Speech, in
which her Majesty calls upon Parliament to take such
measures, in the present state of many districts in Ire-
land, as may be efficient to meet the exigencies of the
case. Her Majesty regrets that she should be compelled
to allude to such, a painful subject, but the
state of matters are such as to ask your assistance for
securing a meateare to meet the evil complained
of. Your Lordships will have observed in the
public joursials, as well as we have learned from
other sour'ses of information, the necessary reports in
referencsl to this matter, to which it will not be necessary
see wt. tv a. u.oso siss. 6.111.v.d. , from those, I am
sure, and feel confident, that you will sympathise with
her Majesty in reference to this state of things ; and I
also feel certain that you will take her Majesty's recom-
mendation into your most serious consideration, with
the object of deciding upon such measure as will effect
a settlement of this state of things, and bring
about the happiness and security of this country, giving
our fellow-subjects there an efficient remedy. Her Ma-
jesty has also brought under your notice the disease that
has affected the potato crop ; and on that subject I am
sure your Lordships will share with her in the anxiety
on account of the great failure that has taken
place in that, which has become an important
necessary of life. Failures in the potato crops have
been known before, but never one so fatal nor so exten-
sive in its operations. It not only visited this country,
but also other countries, and is not only more destruc-
tive than any former visitation of the kind, but also dif-
ferent in its nature. No part of the country has been
excepted, but England and Scotland are not so far
affected as some other countries of Europe. I must say,
however, that had England and Scotland alone
been visited, perhaps we could have proceeded—
trusting to the known industry and character of
the people—to have met it by ordinary means, but the
state of Ireland was such—the ravages of the disease in
that country had been so great, as shown by the ac-
counts received—as to prove that some extraordi-
nary remedy was necessary to meet the evil. Your
Lordships, knowing these disastrous state of things, will,
I am sure, feel deeply gratified that her Majesty, with
her usual care for the welfare of her people, has suggested
measures to mitigate the evil; and her Majesty, in the
emergency, has gone to the full extent of the powers of
the Crown in order to do so. I feel confident that you
will cheerfully co-operate in carrying forward this good
work, so as to provide a remedy not only to avert the
present evil, but also to provide for any future seasons of
scarcity that may arise. I now come to that part
of her Majesty's Speech in which there is brought
under your notice the prosperous state of the revenue,
and the general improvement of the country, and they
are instanced as sure symptoms of the success of past
measures respecting commerce, and recommend-
ing Parliament to take into their earliest con-
sideration whether the same principles may not be
carried out with benefit to the country. And,
my Lords, this part I approach with great timidity,
having so little experience of Parliament, and having so
lately become a Member of your House ; I therefore feel
it presumptuous in me to express any opinion upon this
subject, feeling confident that I should throw no light
upon the subject, and fearing that I might arouse
party feeling by bringing on a premature discus-
sion on a subject which the majority of your Lordships
would consider more fitting to be disposed of at another
and more proper time—(Hear, hear)—and one which, I
have no doubt, when her Majesty's servants shall
make known their views respecting it, may be dis-
cussed with the utmost unanimity. I feel confident you
will congratulate the Sovereign and the country on the
prosperous state of the revenue and of the interests of
the country, and that every Noble Lord, whatever may.
have been his opinions heretofore respecting the reek
sures alluded to, will now rejoice that they have in-
creased the wealth and the resources of the country,
and undoubted evidence that they have produced these
effects will be laid on the table of ',our Lordships.—
(Hear, hear.) I feel quite certain, also, that when you
do take into consideration the measures which will be
proposed, you will do so with a disinterested
desire of deciding in the way which will be most
conducive to the interests of the empire.—(Hear, hoar.)
My Lords, having now addressed you to the best of my
humble ability—(Hear, hear, and cheering)—on the
principal topics of her Majesty's Speech, I hope that
my total inexperience of Parliamentary business, and it
being the first time that I hare had the honour
of addressing so illustrious an assembly as
this House, I may not have been betrayed into any,
expression which might awaken a feeling of disappro-
bation in the Members of this House. Having touched
upon these subjects to the best of my ability,
I therefore thank you for your consideration while I
have trespassed on your attention, and, with your per-
mission I will read the words of the Address. (The Ad-
dress was then read ; it was merely an echo of the
Speech.)
Lord DE ROS then rose to second the Address,
and said, I am much obliged to my Noble Friend for
the able manner in which he has moved the
Address, and I shall not, therefore, occupy your
attention at any length. I shall commence by paying a
just tribute to the Emperor of Russia, for the honour-
able manner in which he has assisted her Majesty's
Government in establishing peace. It is a distinguishing
feature of his country; the manner in which he en-
courages the arts and sciences; and he himself has been
distinguished in his efforts to assist her Majesty's Go-
vernment- ef r nt
hmee nt
French regardWithasto
the
stloa
vt he et
rcaodnev,e nlt
ci oonn
coufr twhiet
hK
mi n
yg
Noble Friend that it will be the means of preventing
great barbarity and many horrors, and will promote a
noble emulation between the two countries. With re-
ference to the Oregon question, my Noble Friend has
given an opinion in which I also concur, viz. that
whatever party on that side of the water may 'do to
promote irritation between the two countries, the good
sense of the Americans, and the knowledge that their
interests are identifiedwteitheemouers,tewillan heramicable
eble
A
arrangement.
Majesty's Government
to
the increase of the army and
duties and labours of the colonial service are on the in-
crease, and it would not
navy, it must be obvious to your Lordships that the
our soldiers and sailorst
beherfeiair tlohsetraihnezttotoephiaerityhoeur

The Duke of WELLINGTON introduced the Select
Vestries Bill, which was read a first, and ordered to be
read a second, time.
HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH—THE ADDRESS.
The LORD CIIANCILLOR then read her Majesty's most
gracious Speech from the Woolsack, which being re-read
by the Clerk at the table,
The Earl of HOME rose to propose the Address.
_
said—My
Lords, in rising to propose an humble and
dutiful Address to the Queen in answer to her
11... f, 9
Males t)'s t)'_ gracious Speech, which your Lordships have
t vcd read, lam gratified in being able to think
at in hat I shall have to propose to you, there will be
7":"!E_I difference of opinion or any division of sentiment.
"_sl,,ti factory to think that the subjects treated of in
rfte Speech are not surrounded by such difficulties as call
particular comment for any
etuomtaillient or power of explanation ;
if they did so, I
to grapple with them. sensible of my own deficiency
adverting
not occupy more of your
Lordships' time by
myself, but will at once to anything personal to
proceed to the few remarks I
shall consider it my duty toproposing the
motion with which I shall conclude.ake inl
feel bound to
continueds;l assur-
congratulate your Lordships upon the
ances which her Majesty has informedu
ceived from all foreign Powers * their :el.llll rej
cultivate the most friendly relations withre
this
country. I am aware, my Lords, that for a se-
ries of years it has constantly been the habit
in the Speech from the Throne to state that the Sove-
reign continued to receive assurances from foreign
Powers of their desire to cultivate the most friendly
relations with this country, and therefore it might be
considered as a matter of course to congratulate the
Sovereign on this, and that it was merely re-
peating what has been said before. Now, in
truth, the very fact of that repetition is most gratify-
ing, and every year's prolongation of peace ought to
make us sensible of the advantages and blessings of
peace, and more highly to prize the skill and judgment
?f those by whom it has been maintained. Her Majesty
informs us that she rejoices that, in concert with the Em-
peror
a
f Russia, and through the success of their joint
mediation, she has been enabled to adjust the difficulties
whichbad long prevailed between the Ottoman
Porte and the CitsiunotfPersia.—(Hear.) The settle-
ment of that l
appear of great importancemayth .not at first sight
is country, or to have
any direct bearing on the peace of Europe or the world

THE SUN, LONDO

Majesty's Speech is one in which I feel great interest— • give notice of his intention to ask the question, though he
the recommendation that some endeavours should be could not but wonder that his Noble Friend had not ex-
used to suppress the system of assassination in Ireland. pected that such a question would have been asked, and
I should be the last man to propose any coercive measures tin refore have been prepared for it by obtaining the
to affect the general liberties of her Majesty's sub- previous consent of the Queen. He would now give no-
jects, but I do think that something beyond lice that to-morrow night he would ask the question of
the ordinary efforts of the law is necessary for Ireland. his Noble Friend.
-I do not wish to be misunderstood, for Ido not refer to Lord STANLEY said,—Although he had the per..
the whole of Ireland, but only to those districts where mission of her Majesty to make any statement in refer-
the system is carried on ; and in those districts it is well ence to the subject that was under the consideration of
known that such is the impunity with which the assassin the House, in reference to the circumstances connected
escapes, that the price of blood is brought as low as with his resignation, he thought the present time was
three or four pounds. Under these circumstances, I not a proper one for going into explanations. Still,
do think that the state of Ireland requires without going into details he would state briefly the rea-
your Lordships' serious consideration.—(Hear, hear.) son why he had separated from those colleagues with whom
I now refer to the scarcity in the potato crop. It has he had acted for the last four years. Although
dif-
produced, and may be expected to produce, a great deal ferences had existed which led to his separation from
of misery. All who visit that country can speak to the the Ministry, he still entertained for those with whom
unbounded hospitality in Ireland; but I think there is he had hitherto co-operated the most unfeigned regard
another virtuenotsufficiently apppreciated,and which also and esteem.—(Hear, hear) He could not state all
prevails to a most unbounded extent upon all oc- the grounds that had led to his retirement, without
canons of national distress. This charity, exerted also stating the measures that were then under
in so praiseworthy a manner, will, I think, pre- the consideration of her Majesty's Cabinet. At
vent the worst evils anticipated by the approaching the present he eould not go into details, and
distress. We also know that there is great room therefore he could not vindicate his conduct, or afford all
for employment in that country, and a great the explanations necessary why he had abandoned the
latitude for the outlay of capital. There was access to position he had held. Since that time those measures
the interior of Ireland by water, there being no part of may have been altered and modified, or others may have
it more than fifty miles from the sea. With respect to been introduced in their stead ; but, in reference to
the relaxation of the prohibitory duties. it is a subject them as they then stood, he would only make the state-
far beyond my experience ; so I will content myself by went that on one measure, and one only, there
saying, that what has been done in this respect has not was a difference between himself and his colleagues.
produced that evil which was expected. The importa- Oa all the others they were agreed. The
tion of foreign cattle has not, I believe, been pro- measure to which he referred had relation to the degree
ductive of any injury to the British farmer, and nature of protection that was to be afforded to the
—(Hear, hear.) I de not anticipate that any agricultural interest.—(Hear, hear.) The measure pro-
injury whatever will follow the other contemplated re- posed could not meet with his approval without a sacri-
laxations. All I will do is to draw the attention of your Tice of his consistency and convictions, which he was not
Lordships to the measure which may be proposed, and prepared to make. The opinions of his col-
I venture to say that no measure will be produced that leagues during the past few years had undergone
will not receive your just and dispassionate considera- considerable change, but his own had not done
tion. It only remains now for me, my Lords, to second so ; and he could not make himself responsible with
the motion which my Noble Friend has proposed. them for the changes proposed. He therefore separated
The LORD CHANCELLOR then put the question, from the Ministry, being certain that to remain would
and declared that the Contents had it. be to sacrifice his personal character and consistency.—
After a few seconds, (Hear, hear.) Such he believed to be his public duty.
The Duke of RICHMOND rose and said—l am not He would not go further now than to state that on one
at all surprised to see the desire which has been evinced ground alone, that which he had just explained, he had
to suppress discussion upon— dissented from the rest of the Cabinet. The details of
The LORD CHANCELLOR—I beg the Noble Duke the measures under consideration, at the time, as he
will not state that. I waited deliberately for a few before observed, need not be gone into at present, as
minutes, and finding that the Noble Duke was not in- other opportunties would be afforded for that purpose.
clined to rise, I put the question and put it slowly. Those questions would be explained on a future occasion.
The Duke of RICHMOND—I am perfectly The Earl of HARDWICKE said, be could not agree
in order. I should have listened with satisfaction with every part of the Address, still he thought that,
to the speech of the Noble Lord who moved from sentiments of loyalty and good feeling, it should
the Address, if he had not in part of his speech re• go without an amendment. He was glad that he had sat
marked that we should wait until we heard the statement down and had given the Noble Lord an opportunity of
of the Minister. I have heard, my Lords, enough in that making the explanation he had done. He
address to know what the Minister intends to do.—(Hear, wished to follow in his footsteps, and to enter
hear.) He intends to withdraw protection.—(lnterrup- as little as possible into the discussion at
tions.) I should like to have heard a more manly speech, present, reserving such till another time. His feelings
and that he had mentioned the corn-laws at once. I defy he could only say, at the present moment, were in uni-
Noble Lards to say that the Speech just read does not son with that Noble Lord, which was to give an opinion
relate to the corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) This is without any mental reservation whatever ; and that
getting rid of the compact which Sir Robert Peel opinion was, that he thought that the measure agreed to
made in 1842 with the agriculturists, and which in 1842, respecting the duty on corn, was at least for
Mr. Gladstone, the Secretary of State, said removed a considerable time a final measure. He con-
difficulties, and was made for the purpose of securing to sidered the question settled, and in conse-
the agriculturists a permanent law. It was to secure quence with it' the wants and exigencies of the country.
that permanent law that the agriculturists acquiesced in But, they had it in the same Speech that there
that sacrifice.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords. I wish to draw never was a period in which the people were better off,
your attention to what Mr. Gladstone said in 1843. He better fed, or more cheaply supplied. If this
then said it would be unjust to the agriculturists, and dis- be so, what should we do when we come to
honourable to the Government and to the Parliament, if a time of difficulty ? He was desirous not to be
they made a change in the laws which protected led away upon this occasion, and, therefore,
British industry without a great and adequate cause. He was desirous to control his feelings, but he would
Where is the cause? Decidedly not the potato rather stop short, that he might not give any offence to
disease in Ireland. No, my Lords, it was those with whom he had been associated for ten years.
not so. The potato failure was assigned as the reason He deeply regretted that anything should have occurred
in the first instance, and promulgated in the Anti-Corn- which should have led him to differ from those Noble
law League.—(Hear, hear.) I cannot for my life see and Honourable Friends whom he looked upon as better
why Mr. Cobden should not be made a Peer and sit on fitted to guide the country than any men he knew ; but
these benches.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) I wish to there was a change come over the spirit of their dream.
ask the people of England and those persons who disagree He stopped where he was; but it appeared to him that they
with me in opinion on the question of the corn-laws had gone on in a course which, however right it might
whether they approve of the course taken by the Anti- be, or proper it might turn out to be, appeared to him to be
Corn-law League?—(Hear, hear.) I say their course wrong, for he did not know where it might
has been unconstitutional and that they are the authors stop. He would say no more about this subject, or the
of this change. I hope this House will not so far abandon reasons which led him to dissent from those friends
its duty as to permit itself to be intimidated by the Anti- who bad put into the mouth of the Sovereign the Speech
Corn-law League, or by the money that body has raised. which they had heard from the Throne; but he felt it
But what is the time the Government asks us to make incumbent on him to give expression to his sentiments
this sacrifice to popular clamour ? We find that Sir on this occasion.
Robert Peel has not produced tranquillity in Ireland ; The Marquis of LANSDOWNE observed that he
but that, on the contrary, murders and assassinations con- was induced to rise for the purpose of saying,
tinue to take place every day.—(Hear, hear.) In this that on this subject he entirely agreed with the send-
speech, Sir Robert Peel comes to us, and asks us' to give ments expressed by the late Secretary of State for
way, and alter those laws which every man knows are the Colonies. Like him, he expected that an explana-
for the benefit, not of the agriculturists alone, but of ton would have been made that night on the motives
every class in the community.—(Loud cries of " Hear, which had led to the resignation of the Right Hon.
hear.) I shall now call your Lordships' attention Baronet at the head of the Government. He was
to the statement made by Sir Robert Peel in the delighted at the course taken by her Majesty's
year 1839, when he wanted office from the Government with regard to the question of America.
agriculturists. He then said, "If you take away pro- Lord BROUGHAM rose also to express the great
tection the farmers will ask you to get rid of all protec- gratification which he experienced at the course
tion on every other article." Upon that occasion Sir R. which Government had pledged themselves to
Peel stated what would be the effect if pr otection to adopt with regard to America. He did not
corn were abolished. The effect must be that all protec- wish his observations to take from that re-
tion on other articles must be abolished.—(Hear, hear.) spect which he, in common with all who had observed
Are you prepared to destroy your Custom-houses, his Noble Friend's public conduct, felt for him; but still
and by that means destroy the revenue that he might express his regret at the course which his
now goes to support the liabilities of the nation ? Noble Friend had adopted. There were some matters
If you are, where will you get revenue sufficient on which he differed from his Noble Friend, and there
to pay the public creditor ? If protection to corn is to were some on which he agreed with him ; and he felt
be got rid of because it is a great monopoly, are there bound in fairness to take that opportunity of setting his
no other monopolies in this country ?—(Hear.) What Noble Friend right, if he thought anything that
do you think of the East India Company ? he had said came within the scope of his
what do you think of the Bank ? and what observations. In 1839 he (Lord Brougham) had
do you think of the hundred others? If you consent to made a motion, in which he failed. He had made a
make a further inroad into and get rid of protection, motion that evidence should be called, and that they
you will have to pull down the house and rebuild it from should examine the whole of this question by means of
the commencement.—(Cheers.) I will ask whe- testimony. It was his opinion that an alteration in
ther the Civil List will remain. I will ask if a the commercial policy of this country with regard to
single salary in this country will remain if ycu corn was necessary, but not for the purpose of lowering
at once destroy the protective duties of this the price of corn, which he never expected it to do,
country. My Lords, I for one will not give your and which he had endeavoured to show it had no ten-
Lordships the trouble of voting upon an amendment deny to do, any more than the corn-laws, against which
upon the present occasion ; but I enter my protest, my he had argued, had tended to keep up the price of food.
solemn protest, against that clause in the Speech, which But it was for the purpose of remodelling the whole
is contrary to every principle which the present Govern- commercial system of this country that it might assume
ment has ever brought forward from the Speech of 1839 such a position with regard to foreign powers as would
up to the present moment. I know nothing of what enable and make them open their markets to our manu-
their measure is, but I have a right to speak strongly, factures and produce ; but in that attempt before,
because I happen to be one of those who are their Lordships were aware, he was so entirely defeated
of opinion that no relaxation of the corn. laws should be that he did not try again. He hoped, however, that he
made. What have we said respecting these little mea- had lived to see better times, and greater changes in
sures brought before Parliament by the present Govern- opinion, and he hoped and trusted that before he had
ment, against which I and some of your Lordships done with that subject some of his opinions would be
voted? Only that they were steps towards free trade. more favourably received. They were, however, quite
We, fortunately, voted against them; but Sir Robert uncertain what the Minister's policy would be with
Peel has contrived, by his eloquence and by regard to the corn-laws. It would be folly to
his soothing speeches, to get a large number say that, because they had taken one course
of Members of both Houses of Parliament to place con- in 1842 they should not alter or change that course in
fidence in him. My Lords, that confidence may exist 1846. Such was the doctrine of his Noble Friend, but
still in some quarters, but I beg to say that it exists not it was no part of his policy : he had learned a different
in the large body of the middle classes of this lesson. He must, however, express his disapprobation
country. What is the fair, open, honest, English of the manner in which his opinions—important as they
manner in which the farmers of this coun- were, and sincerely as he held them—had been received
try have come forward on a late occasion ? and supported. He had said to their Lordships—and
They do not ask you to reject the measures to be pro- they knew well the grounds on which he wished to re-
posed. No ! But they come to you, and they say to peal the corn-laws in 1839—could he have said to.the
the Government, "You came into office pledged to pro- public as an honest man, that the repeal
tection ; you have thought fit—we know not why—we would make bread cheap ? Could he say
care not to impute motives—but we say you ought not to now that the corn-laws, against which he argued,
carry out these measures without appealing to the coun- so strongly were, the cause of scarcity in the country?
try."—(Cheers.) It must be a bad case indeed when a the cause of famine in the country, the cause of disease
Ministesr does not dare to face what is called a popular in the country? the cause of crime in the country? or the
question on the hustings.—(Cheers.) We ask for no cause of mortality in the country? He would rather put
more. We ask for a clear stage and no favour. We his right hand into the fire, and see it consumed, than
ask you to appeal to the country to know put it to any document which purported that the corn-
whether .or not these modern innovations are to laws caused famine, crime, disease, and death. He had
be Omitted, and to know whether we ought to sat for four years in her Majesty's Councils,
be masele dependant upon foreigners for a supply never saying a word to prevent crime and
of thi et which we can produce ourselves, famine, disease and death, knowing that these
I think the House has a right to demand from her Ma- things were the fault of those laws, and that
jesty'silovernment the reason of their sudden changes. their removal would be the advantage of their
I know- not what to call them. These reasons are only repeal or alteration. He differed from his Noble friend
known ;to some dozen individuals on the opposite side. and with many persons on the question, and he
I think the country has a right to inquire why they was as much at issue with them on the one side
threw ui'i their offices, and if the protective duties were of the case as he was with his Noble Friend on the other.
in any di .nger.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, I feel that your But there was another class of persons connected with
Lordshii ps will take this question into consideration, and the question—he meant the agitators—for whom he en-
will do I your duty to your Sovereign and your country; tertained no respect whatever. His Noble Friend might
and the you will banish from your minds the Minister ask him if he were the friend and abettor, or perhaps
who proposes these measures. My Lords, Ido not on the accomplice, of the Anti-Corn-law League. He said,
this occasi on intend to offer any factious opposition to God forbid. He differed infinitely more, ten thousand
the Address, lout Ido intend, and Ido trust, your Lord- times more, from the conduct pursued by that body
ships Nviii aid me, to offer every fair opposition to than he did from the corn-laws, and those who advo-
the proceedings of the Minister. We have heard a cated them. After long observation and much reflec-
great deal t shout the disease in the potatoes, and we don, he was deeply convinced that a representative Go-
have suffered in England as well as in Ireland. There vernment was the form of Government which was best
will be plc my of opportunities for discussing this ques- adapted to confer the greatest amount of happiness and
tion. But I beg to enter my solemn protest against that freedom on the human race. Now the nature and
part of his r Majesty's Speech which threatens the ruin essence of that kind of Government was, that when power
of the agricultural interests, and this House, I think, is was delegated to representatives, the representatives
entitled tt know the reasons why they have come to such spoke in future, and not the constituency, and this led
a decision him to answer the Noble Lord in reference to
The Dt eke of WELLINGTON—My Lords, the Noble what he said as to appealing to the people. It
Duke st at es that he will not offer any amendment to the was not a wholesome thing to appeal to the people
Address 4as proposed. He has complained of the orris- when they were in a ferment. At that period
sion of all allusion to the corn-laws in the Speech from it was wrong to call upon them to pronounce
the th cone. My Lords, it is not necessary in this upon an exciting subject.—(Murmurs.) He did not
House to follow my young friend in his observations on mean to say that there were no exceptions to that prin-
the cot duct of the Ministry.—(Hear, boar.) Nor do I ciple. He did not mean to say but that there might arise
think it t iecessary to make any allusions to the Address conjunctures when it would become necessary to
moved iby my Noble Friend, as I beg to in- make such appeal.(Hear, hear.) When differences of
form you r Lordships those measures will be brought opinion arose between the two Houses of Parliament, the
before tl se House in a very few days.—(Hear.) only means of composing the difference was to appeal
I entreat 3 •our Lordships to consider whether now it is to the people, but if cm every question that interests
right to e; cpect me to make any explanation such as that Parliament they were to appeal to the people they
which th e Noble Duke requests.—(Hear, hear.) I ceased to be a representative Government, but were
hope it will not be insisted upon that any such entirely influenced by the multitude, and even
matters v /ill be entered upon ; but I entreat you by the mob. He did not see in the whole
now to adopt the Address, and leave explana- circle of political questions one more objection
tions to another time. Respecting such a ques- able for such an appeal as that which was at
tion as tit at which has been put by my Noble Friend, that moment occupying their attention. A continuance
regarding the resignation of her Majesty's Ministers ; of such an agitation would expose them to the same
the Noble . Duke who has put it, has been a privy coun- dangers as those which followed the agitation which was
cillor himself, and knows that a privy councillor of the Low being pursued in Ireland for the repeal of the Union.
Sovereign : must keep the counsels of the Sovereign With respect to these agitators, he was about to state
secret. I c annot, therefore, state here what has passed the course of conduct now in great vogue w;th that
in that priv y council, without obtaining the previous per- body, some of whose members were highly respectable,
mission of t he Sovereign. Before my Noble Friend had while on the contrary.othea: 'were quite the reverse, as
asked the question, he should have given notice was customary in att large bodies. He found they
nof his in untion of doing so, in order to afford an oppor- were raisin..
,an immense sum of money with an avowed
tunity of the necessary permission from her Majesty obin'l He admitted the object was lawful, and he ap-
prelimine,ry to such explanation being x
asked, I o
given. Had
on the Woolsack.—(Laughter.) eitled to the Noble Lords opposite clustering so thickly
known that sue h a question would have been These agitators broke
should have obtained permission to mak
answer to it. But why should 'it might amount to)
;tie question be (no matter • • put what prime sum
a statement in no Act of Parliament in thus collecting a large sum
is nicootunculsal
on the first night of att. session ? Such a course for the purpose they had in view. Now, he
public interests require that would ask, what was that purpose ? Their ob-
the -counsels the Sovereign should be kept It • in 1
vies pFrmis sion of
is 'so doubt :onvenient
Soverein.
that sometimes what takes place in differentcounties.—(A. Noble Lord, "No, freeholds.")h
shot be re vealed but secret. sect collecting the Argo sum was to purchase vots
the • I.:ars The
The
'be as a gen.eral rule the secrets of When he said to purchase votes, haegiptaetaanrat
htooapetuerdc
thatase
threevealed without obtaining the pro- the right to vote. This party
.of
stag ce in which •
much a, would be successful
previous napes, and no question has been put without and, that for the future they
This is the first in- in one county they had obtained two thousand votes,
secre is which it one present can desire that the
involves should be at add fur 000 voters to the roll for
e i?'alie of RICHMOND present stated.
said o would hi. I they were now about to e,
"Y "'tad to the county of Yorkshire, and a similar number for South
. .1n securing able champions their cause. They said

IRI DAY EVENING. JANITARI 235. 1846

Lancashire. By such means as those they avowed they
would be enabled to return one hundred Members to Par-
liament. To obtain that end some send their thousands,
others their five hundreds,and others their fives.—(Hear.)
To those who were the members of the League—those
who had been for some time writing upon Dukes, such 110
his Noble Friend the Duke of Richmond, who appeared
to be considered by these writers as Aree naturce, and
liable to be preyed upon, to them he would give the
benefit of his opinion without giving them his
al., and that opinion was, that it was per-
fectly legal for them to act as they
now did. The course they were pursuing violated no
law, common or statute. If his friend Mr. Attwood,
and other rich men like him were to subscribe a million
of money to the purchase of freehold qualifications, they
would have a perfect right, as the law now
stood, to do so. They might purchase those free.
oh 1:Is for the purpose of returning Members
of Parliament. To such a course the law did
not say nay. The late' Mr. Bentham used to argue
that there was no such thing as unconstitutional—that
it appeared to him that unconstitutional meant anything
that anybody did not like. " Show me," he said, " any-
thing lawful, and that is constitutional ; show me any-
thing unlawful, and that will be unconstitutional." Now
he (Lord Brougham) would adduce an instance to illustrate
the argument he had referred to. The Sovereign might
create five hundred Peers. He might march these five
hundred Peers into that House, and as the prerogative
was not confined to numbers, neither was it confined to
rank. He might ennoble five hundred soldiers out of a
battalion of Guards, and make every one of
them Peers of the realm. It would be an undeni-

able and unprescriptible right for theca to take
seats, and to vote in that House, and the
sovereign might march that battalion of newly-made
peers into that House to overwhelm the Members of that
House, and to carry any measure by a majority of a hun-
dred. It would be perfectly lawful. There would be
nothing illegal—nothing in the slighest degree contrary
to law, in the exercise of this most undeniable preroga•

ye which the Crown possessed of, creating peers.

But if the Lord Chancellor should put the great
seal to those patents of peerage, so surely as these
fell on the ears of the Commons House of Parliament,
the announcement of the act which he had done—the
crime which he had committed—perfectly lawful, but
perfectly unconstitutional—a gross breach of the Con-
stitution—a foul violation of the Constitution—a high_
crime and misdemeanor—so surely would the head of
that high officer—if not in fact, at least by right and by
desert—fall for the crime be had committed.
He knew that if he was called on he would say they
were not committing an unconstitutional act. If he
were asked his opinion as a lawyer he would give it,
and without requiring five pounds either—(A laugh)—if
in that capacity he were asked which of tte two acts
were the most unconstitutional, he would say that act
which raised money by voluntary contribution for
guilty purposes. He would say that as a lawyer it was
legal, but as a constitutional lawyer it was illegal—
(Hear, hear)—and a break up of the Constitution.
He had not for the first time stated this opinion. He
was once asked to aid in the creation of 500 votes, and
his answer was distinctly that he would not subscribe
one farthing for such a measure. But he placed his ob-
jection on higher grounds ; he saw it was an unconsti-
tutional act to multiply votes. He would say one word
on ♦oluntary contributings. Those who thus sub-
scribed and contributed to raise large funds to
create votes must be prepared to differ from
some of the most constitutional lawyers in this
country. He did not say that contributions for the pur.
pose of enabling the Crown to defend the country was il-
legal or unconstitutional ; but, on the contrary, was a
praiseworthy subscription, and was not a subscription
for the purpose of subvertir.g the established regulations
of the country. He alluded now t:-) Ireland.—(Hear.)
He supposed it was just as constitutional as the policy
adopted now—many people might think it a little
more justifiable and more constitutional.—(Hear, hear.)
Those who considered it a legal act, will have against
them the opinion of the late Sir Philip Crompton, and
will also have to combat a still greater opinion—he meant
Mr. Fox. They would also have to combat Lord Grey's
opinion, as well as Mr. Pitt's. On such grounds the
Parliament had by its votes sanctioned the use of money
raised by voluntary contributions. They may
have been wrong—that he would not express
an opinion about. He considered that the course
of this country ought to be, to raise money
by consent of Parliament, and through the sworn Minis-
ters of the Crown. He did not like to see a trade car-
ried on with impunity, which would alter the founda-
tions of their Constitution, by raising a new trade in

this country. His love of free trade was not very great—
he meant the trade which was driving for money—for base
lucre, for filthy gains—and for that purpose he would
not consent to such a political agitation. If that trade
was not checked, there would never be wanted persons
to trade in it, because it is of all trades the easie3t car-
ried on, and the meanest. Of all trades it was the easiest
to drive, and they saw in Ireland what agitation
was doing, and now in England, in the repeal of
the corn-laws, a good trade was also carried on.
He had an equal dislike with his Noble Friends to what
is called mob government. He would have this country
governed by the Crown and the Parliament. lie would
have the measures for the safety of the people of Eng-
land discussed and propounded by wise men. He had been
reproached with inconsistency for advising the Crown
to dissolve Parliament during the agitationof the Reform
Bill. But he cared not for the charge if he felt he was
right. He had sat at the helm of the imperial vessel
for four years, with others more worthy to steer, and he
saw the vessel more than once in sight of breakers;
he had no desire to see them again.—(Hear, hear.) His
Noble and Learned Friend had stated that after what
had taken place in former times, and after the opinions
which he had expressed, he held it inconsistent with his
own honour to hold a different opinion.
Lord STANLEY begged to correct the Noble Lord
—his expression was, " holding the same opinions now
as he did then."
Lord BROUG HAM apologised. That was quite a
different thing. He was beguiled by the word incon-
sistency. It was not inconsistency to act one way and
think another—(Great laughter)—it was downright
dishonesty. He had often heard the charge of incon-
sistency ; but he had no respect for, nor did he
wish to court or belong to, the sect of that
class of persons who allow years to pass
over them without any increase of knowledge,
and who are too proud to gather wisdom from
length of years, or profit by the lessons of ex-
perience. To do this was not inconsistency.
In conclusion, he wished to express his most
cordial approbation of that part of her Majesty's
Speech which recommended their Lordships taking the
disturbed state of Ireland into their early consideration.
The Earl of MALMESBURY begged to protest against
that part of the Noble Lord's speech in which he recom-
mended an appeal to the people. He perfectly agreed that
such an appeal should be made on no trifling or trivial occa-
sion. If it was necessary to take the opinion of the people,
let it be the one which they expressed in 1841, which ex-
pressed itself in a protectionist Parliament. He would
not suppose that because the Prime Minister had changed
his views, that the people had changed theirs.—(Hear.)
The Earl of RADNOR observed that it was a
matter of necessity to yield to public pressure from
without, when they had not a Government who would
lead the public mind. This had been the practice of
late years. He would wish to ask the Noble Lord, be-
fore he left his place, whether all the great
measures which he had seen carried had not been
so carried by pressure from without ? He would ask,
was not the abolition of the slave trade carried by pres-
sure from without ? Had not Catholic Emancipation
not
tn ctahreried pressureofCouncil
erwsithoouft ? Had
been carried by pressure from without ? Had not
the repeal of the Test Acts been carried by pressure from
rebpye al
without ? He lamented to say that this was always
the case when the people outstrip in know-
ledge and enlightenment the Government of the country.
the froOnird
They should reflect that to carry out any great measure
pressure from without was required. Some reference
ah—naidt unconstitutionalbwe
ae
sn
a
trimproving
to
o m s
pmu
rboosn:
inieryg b feo rt
ihsoueo,c such
dwellingso
op nt op fosres
the,
of
the a s
being an unconstitutional act. In that case it would be
unconstitutional. it ,
purpose of a railway. There was also a subject
which at present was occupying considerable attention
that purpose, according to the Noble Lord, would also
be p oor
h es o
would
metropolis.
it T o
be
raisewi with i
raising money
sub-
scriptionsfor for churches; in fact, it would place an em-
bargo on many charitable purposes. The Noble and
Learned Lord had also chosen to cast violent aspersions
on the Anti-Corn-law League. He (Lord Radnor),
however, had nu objection to the name, however much
it might displease the Noble Lord; but he denied that
they raised money for unconstitutional purposes. He was
a subscriber to that fund—(Hear, hear)—and he believed
that in doing so he was subscribing for a charitable
purpose ; for he believed nothing could be more chari-
table than effecting a repeal of the corn-laws, and car-
rying out this principle of free trade.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord had said that the League bought votes
with the funds they were raising. He (Lord Radnor)
denied this. They bought no votes with the funds, but
it was raised only to carry on the agitation. They per-
suaded people to buy votes—to lay out their money to
give effect to their opinions, but they did not buy
votes. The League, therefore, merely facilitated the
getting of votes, but they did not make them.—(Hear,
hear.) They opened an office to enable persons who
wanted votes to get them from persons who were willing
to sell that which conveyed that privilege.(llear,
hear.) They did not make votes, as other parties had
done, by the 501. clause, by which they had divided
their farms into four or five parcels for effecting
such a purpose. The League did nothing in
secret, but their object was to carry out a groat poli-
tical object. The Noble and Learned Lord had objected
to their agitating for a political purpose as unconstitu-
tional ; but bad not the Noble and Learned Lord him-
self done so in his agitation on behalf of the abolition of
the slave trade? If the one agitation was unconstitu-
tional, the other was also of that character.—(Hear,
hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord had charged the
League with being actuated by selfish considerations
alone. To that he (Lord Radnor) would answer, that
there was no such evidence in their conduct, which had
shown on the part, of the leading members a great ex-
pense of time and money, not to realise any private object
or advantage, but for the good of the public generally.
The origin of the Anti-Corn-law League was because
seven or eight merchants of Manchester found their
trade in a very bad state. At that time, when trade fell
so much in 1838 or 1839, they formed projects for the
purpose of rescuing themselves and others in the same
trade from the ruin hanging over them. They became
free-traders, and they found that that which was good
for themselves was good for others, and fur the public at
large, and they induced others to become free-
traders. He would support in every way, and also
defend, the Anti-Corn-law League. He was
sorry that any one should be led in that way,
but if the Goyernment would not listen to reason they

must give in to opposition, and give in to the means which
would be used instead of argument. His Noble and
Learned Friend had objected to agitaton, but in the begin-
ning of his speech he had recommended it. :Ile would ask
how many years should they have been as they were
now if it had not been for agitation ?—(Hear.) Agita-
tion had, however,ibeen produced, and the Government
must yield to it, and if they did not do so woe
to them and woe to the country. His Noble and Learned
Friend had said that he did not believe that the
majority of the country was in favour of the
Anti-Corn-law League; bat he believed that it was, and
that the Government would be obliged to yield to it.
They would not, as his Noble and Learned Friend had
saitlf do anything illegal or unconstitutional ; nor had
they any intention of doing so ; their agitation was only
with the view of removing a law which was obnoxious
and injurious to them and to the country.
Lord BROUGHAM haclnz offered a few words in
explanatioti,
The Earl of RAfirtoll eras about to exp!ain also, when
The Earl of SALISZURY rose to order.
The Earl of RADNOR then quoted the opinion of
the Noble Duke opposite in 1829, who had stated
that his views iv re not changed ; but then it. was ne-
cessary to yield to the popular demand at that
time to avoid a civil war, which, he said,
of all wars that was the most horrible.—(Hear.)
He would, however, contend that it was not the object of
the Anti.Corn,law League to make votes fur the people
to give in their suffrages expressly for the repeal of the
corn-laws, but in order tai give efficacy to the promulga-
tion of their honest opinions.
The Duke of WELLINGTON trusted their Lord-
ships would allow him to explain, in answer to an ob-
servation which had been made by the Noble
Earl with respect to what lie (the Noble Earl)
had reported him (the Duke of Wellington)
to have said In a speech delivered 17 yecra ago. If the
Noble Earl would be so kind as to look at the records of
the House he would see that he had not quoted his
words correctly. The words quoted by the Noble Earl
were neither the words nor the sentiments to which he
(the Duke of Wellington) had given utterance.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said, he always under-
stood that to conspire in any way, by manufacturing
votes, to change the established laws of the country
was an illegal act; but after the high legal opinion
which had been delivered on the subject he should be

silent on that head. The Noble Earl had been pleased
to apply terms to the present corn laws which had cer-
tainly never before been heard in that House. He had
called that system of laws, the accursed corn-laws,
which, to say the least, was very unmeasured language.
The Noble Earl had also in speaking of the pressure from
without coercing the Government to rescind the corn-laws,
said that he himself would contribute to make that
pressure from without felt in the House. This was a
very strange doctrine for the Noble Earl to hold. He
(the Marquis of Salisbury) could not admit that there was
any prospect of famine ; neither could he allow that the
relaxation which had taken place with respect to com-
merce bad increased in any degree the prosperity of the

country.
The Duke of BEAUFORT observed that he must
protest against the extreme latitude of expression with
respect to commerce which had appeared in the Speech,
from the Throne. He thought that such expressions
would have a most prejudicial effect on the general in-
terests of the state.
THE LATE RESIGNATION OF MINISTERS.
The Duke of RICHMOND said he had no objection
to putting off, at the request of the Duke of
Wellington, the question why her Majesty's Ministers
had resigned office, and shortly afterwards resumed it,
until Monday next—more especially as he would then
have the opportunity of knowing what Sir R. Peel had
said in the other House on the subject
The Duke of WELLINGTON observed that the reason
why he asked the Noble Duke to put off his motion was be-
cause he might not have an opportunity of seeing her Ma-
jesty before then.
CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES.

On the motion of the Duke of WELLINGTON, the
Earl of Shaftesbury was for the thirty-third time elected
to fill the office of Chairman of Committees for the en-
suing session.
ADDRESS TO HER MAJESTY.
The Earl of DELAWARR announced that her
Majesty would receive the Address of their Lordships'
House at half-past two o'clock on Saturday next.
The House then adjourned till one o'clock on
Saturday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Thursday, Jan. 22.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at twenty minutes to
Two o'clock.

Exactly at a quarter past two, at which time there were
about 150 Members present, the Usher of the Black Rod,
Sir Augustus Clifford, appeared at the bar of the House,
and summoned the Commons to attend the House of
Lords, in order to hear her Majesty's Speech read.
The Speaker, preceded by the mace bearer, and fol-
lowed by a considerable portion of the Members, imme-
diately left the House, in obedience to her Majesty's
command.
In about ten minutes the Speaker returned, and hay-
icg read the Speech, the House adjourned till a quarter
to Four o'clock.

The House re-assembled at Four o'clock, and the
SPEAKER having taken the chair, the new Members for
Wigan, Windsor, Walsall, Southwark, Warwickshire,
Antrim County (Ireland), Woodstock, Hereford, and
Hertfordshire, took the oaths and their seats.
Upon the motion of Mr. YOUNG, a new writ was
moved for for the boroughs of Selkirk and Newark, and
niso for the shire of Bute, in the room of the Hon. James
Stuart Wortley, who had accepted the office of her Ma-
jesty's Judge-Advocate-General.
Mr. TUFNELL moved for the issue of a new writ
for the West Riding of Yorkshire, in the room of the
Hon. Mr. Wortley, now Lord Wharncliffe. The Hon.
Member also moved for the issue of a new writ for the
city of Cork, in the room of Mr. Sergeant Murphy, who
had accepted the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds;
and for the issue of a new writ for the borough of
,Cashel, in the room of Dr. Stock, who had accepted the
stewardship of the Ohiltern Hundreds.
Writs were also moved for the division of East Sussex,
in the place of Mr. Darby, who had accepted a com-
raissionership in the service of her Majesty; and for
Midhurst, in the place of Sir Horace Seymour, who had
accepted the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds.
Lord J. RUSSELL gave,a notice which was inaudible
in the gallery.