The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-30 00:00:00

MAY 30, 1846.

to the prejudice of the vested interests of a line that had secured the
sanction of the Legislature, merely to benefit them in their indi-
vidual position of great landed proprietors. The Learned Gentleman
of his address, concluded by calling on the Committee to reject the
having amplified further on these points, and recapitulated the heads
preamble of the North British (Carlisle Extension), and to pass that of
the Caledonian (Langholm Branch).
Mr. rammer then replied on the part of the North British line,
and on behalf of the petitioning proprttors, the Duke of Buccleuch
and Sir James Graham. He would, in the first place, deal with the
affirmative advantages of the Bill f r which he appeared before he
replied to the eloquent statement of his Learned Friend. The
preamble of the Nerth British (Carlisle Extension) line sot forth that
great public advantages would result from the pasging of the Bill
in question. They pronahed at the opening of the proceedings
that they would establish a strong case of lqcal traffic,
and they had amply redeemed that promise. They
had shown that the district to be accommodated was a rich agricul-
tural and pastoral district, which was, in regard to the woollen tra le,
desirable. By the railways already
the West Riding of Scotland—a district, moreover, which as yet had
been placed on the apex of a
neither canal nor railway accommodation. It had, he submitted,
theis south,
into thaeccommammodter:
been proved that the trade of the district was very great, and that
the only thing that interfered with the ample development of the
this was the natural course of traffic, and all clearly
district was a cheap and abundant supply of coal, which at
was an ocritledt not
It was on the point of traffic confluence
from Edinburgh and Berwick last sanctioned Hawick had
teanthde atmi :real priceand
triangle in raga t' to accommodation.
of the two lines sanctioned
showed that
that was required now
agricultural rauduce of the district.
had been taken, it had been shown ttast at least one-thirdfar " evidence
of the agricultural produce went west
and
south
quired the present line of railway
accommodatiosen, and re-
was clear that the produce of Roxburghshrre went in l The
qproof
titles to Dumfriesshire, and that at least 3,300 tons of
graine -lian-
went
from the former to the latter
county for seed and for other
It had also been shown that cattle and sheep were fattenerlrPese els.y
in Roxburghshire, and that they absolutely required a
southern rail-
way accommodation like the present line. They had called the
best witness in Scotland on the subject, Mr. Scott, who de-
posed that he sent south to Liverpool and Lancashire
generally about 4,000 fat sheep yearly, besides a large quantity sent
from East Lothian, via Glasgow to Liverpool. It had also been proved
that there would be large traffic in lean cattle and sheep that would,
pass 'along the line, arising from the large fairs held in the county of
Roxburgh. The evidence of Mr. Scott on this head was fortified by
the evidence of Mr. Nelson, who had been actually examined on a
similar point the year before by the Caledonian Company. He was,
therefore, an unimpeachable autheel.ty- 110.(Mr-J,040t) 12441 now
dealt ''nitil ' the attriettutal exports, anti he would -flow=
briefly call their attention to the question of imports in
order to effect improvements In the cultivation of land. The area of
country around llawick required tiles, Sr, at Last, clay, to make
them of, and coals by which to burn them ; and these would be sup-
plied in large quantities, and at a cheap rate, from Canobie. It was
also necessary to have railway connexion in order to obtain supplies
of guano and other manure, from the adjoining ports. Then, with
regard to the southern limb of the scheme, they had the evidence of
the Duke of Buccleuch and Sir J. Graham, who spoke strongly in fa-
vour of the line as a means of supplying the demands
of the agriculturists of that part of the country. So much for the
agricultural features of the scheme ; now for the those of a manu-
facturing character. It had been proved that the quantity of foreign
wool."_especially wool from New York, was increasing every year at
tlawick, and also that a large trade was carried out in manufac-
tured goods with London. In these days of competition short and
direct routes were indispensable for manufacturers. It had been
shown by Mr. Locke, the Tweed draper, that no line of
communication would be advisable for the district, unless it
connected it in a direct manner with Liverpool and Manchester. It
was therefore absurd, and out of all • character, that the inhabitants
of the district should be sent thirty or forty miles round, by way of
Berwick. Again; it had been proved that in Galashiels and Herrick
the water-power was almost taken up, and that a cheap and abun-
dant supply of coal was necessary, in order to apply steam as a
motive power ; and it bad been further shown that the supply of
this mineral could be best had from the Canobie coal-field. Such
was the outline of the case for the line, presenting a
case of strong local want for the line in question. One remarkable
fact in their case was, that of the 42 miles in extent, they had on 37
miles of it the assent of the landed proprietors, while on the whole
they had bat a single mile of dissents. The Learned Gentleman hav-
ing dwelt on the points of the case as developed in evidence, went on
to reply to the observations made on behalf of the Caledonian Com- I
'Any, by Mr. Cockburn. With regard to the Caledonian line, he
must say that it was useless to the district through which the Hawick
line passed, and it would be worse than useless if it were to
be protected, during all time future, from any line passing from
Carlisle to Hawick. He submitted the Caledonian had no
standing before the Committee, and had only sneaked in by their
proposition of the Langholm branch. In doing this they submitted
the principle of the Hawick line, though they.stopped short of giving
that accommodation to the district which it required. Beyond the
portion of the Hawick line that competed with their Langholm
branch, they had no locus standi, and had no right to appear against
the twenty miles from Langholm to Hawick. He repbdiated
the notion of the Caledonian line talking of vested rights. He hoped
the day had gone by when vested rights, except in well-established
cases, and not on such as the Caledonian had submitted, had gone by,
and that the public interests were to be sacrificed to the selfish policy
of a grasping company. The Learned Gentleman then went over the

various points adduced in support of the Caledonian. He denied that
the present line was put forward as a competing line with that,
though he did not deny but that some parties might come
along this one, in preference to the other. But the wine through
traffic was estimated at about 21,0001., and the utmost that might
be taken from it could not be more than 4,0001. or 5,0001.:; yet on
the hare contingency of that they were led to belieVe that the
Caledonian was a company that could be extinguished by the
slightest blow. Then they were assailed that the North British
Company would not have enough of traffic to support their line,
but he submitted that was no business of the Chairman
and directors of the Caledonian Company, though he admitted
it was a subject for the consideration of the Committee. His
clients had produced along the route of the line witnesses who knew
the wants of the district well, while those called oil the other side,
with the exception of that notable member of the fourth estate, Mr.
Steele, who had all along been a partisan of the Caledonian, had no
local connexion with the district whatever. He submitted: that
manufacturers and agriculturists, who knew all about the district
and mineral agents, residing at Canobie, were witnesses more to be
relied on than Mr. Pare, who had been employed to get up a case,
and the other parties, who had merely run over the district once or
twice, and who had no knowledge of the real wants and traffic
of the country with respect to the Canobie coal-field. Evidence had
been clearly given to show that there were ten seams of coal, of
which but three were now working ; that the supply was most
ample; that so far from coals from Berwick suppL.nting Canobie
coal at Hawick, it was mo; e likely that Canobie coal would go to
Berwick, en account of the saperiority_of the article. All the Com-
ntitte-e—ebilld on this point was compare the one evidence with
the other, and judge between them. On the passenger traffic it was a
remarkable fact, that where these estimates could be corrected by way
bills, it was found to agree in the main with the other side, as
shown in the evidence of that euphoneous pair, Messrs. Piper and
Tyther: and it was only when the romantic calculations of Mr. Pare
were introduced that a discrepancy was made out. On the engi-
neering
differences in the estimates he would rot the established
character of Mr. Miller against the evidence on the other side, with
the high observation that Mr. Locke, in his original esti-
mate, set down the Caledonian line at, 2,100,0001. Taking
away 130,0001. for plant, and dividing the remainder of the
number of miles, the amount per mile would show actually less
than the estimate of Mr. Miller. This would show how the
matter stood between the rival engineers, and how much this alleged
discrepancy was worth. The Learned Gentleman then addressed
himself to the Langholm branch and the junction at the station,
with reference to the evidence of SirJ. Graham, that the line
ought to run upon the south( bank of the Eak, and that with respect
to the junction at Carlisle, the promoters of the Bill were willing to
leave the matter to the adjudication of the Board of Trade. The
Learned Gentleman concluded by strongly impressing on the mind of
the Committee the necessity of passing the preamble of the Bill.
The room was then cleared for a division,

IMPORTANT DECISION.
After an absence of about half an hour the parties were called in,
when

The CHAIRMAN said the decision •f the Committee was, that the
preamble of the Bill of the Langholm branch of the Caledonian Rail-
way had not been proved; also that the preamble of the North
British (Carlisle Extension) had not been proved. They, however,
reserved that portion of the North British preamble that related to
the small branch to the Canobie coal-field, so as to aseerta'n whether
by the forms of the House they could retain it, so as to form a junc-
tion with the branch of the Dumfries line. Practically, however, the
decision was the rejection of both schemes at present before the Com-
mittee.

The consideration of the Cansble Branch and the clauses of the
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Bill were adjourned till Monday week.

GROUP XVII.

BOVISET AITD REDBRXDGE BRANCH.
(Continued front our Afternoon Eciitiou of yesterday.)
_ . .

-
Mr. C. Stovin, the traffic manager of the Great Western, was then
examined. He said when the traffic bills were printed he invariably
examined them. He had a copy of the passenger tables issued about
the Ist of January, 1841. He was not sure whether the line was
opened to Northern or Southampton at that period ; but the distance
between London and Southampton, as stated in the bills of that
period, was seventy-six miles and three-quarters, but the gds-
traffic distance seventy-six miles. Winchfield was looked upon as
half-way between Southampton and London. and was considered
thirty-eight miles from Southampton. The time bills were published
about every month, and little variation was made in them, except
in May and in the fall of the year. He could undertake to
say that no change took place in the bills between May and
September 1844. By the May bill of that year the dis-
tance was set down as seventy-seven miles and a quarter,
and the distance from Southampton to Winehtield was thirty-nine
miles, or from Southampton to London seventy-seven miles and a
quarter. By the bills of January and March, 1845, the distance
charged for passengers between Southampton was forty miles, and
for goods thirty-nine. The abatement for carrying twenty tons for
forty miles was thirty per cent., and for thirty-nine 20 per cent.,
making a difference of 10 per cent. They were entitled
to charge for forty miles, if the distance was a fraction
over thirty-nine. Nothing, however, was gained by this, as it had
nothing to do with the charges. The line was, however, re-surveyed
last year, and this seeming discrepancy was rectified, and the fares
for both passengers and goods were only charged for the net distance.
Mr. Davis—Then the passengers;by the Parliamentary train should
pay Id. more than they do. and the Company gain 10 per cent. by
having charged 40 miles for passengers, and only 39 for goods ?
The witness said under the old time bill referred to
by Mr. Davis that was actually the case on the face of
It, but the company really derived no advantage from it.
between Winchfield and Southampton. Coals taken from the wharf
at Nine Elms to Southampton were conveyed at 2%c1. a ton, but 3d.
a ton was charged IYom Southampton.

Examined by Mr. HATHERTON—The distance in 1845 was found
to be 78. The heavy traffic of all kinds did not exceed five tons a
week between Winchfteld and Southampton. The charges for con-
veying coals were regulated by the large quantity sent from London,
and the small quantity sent from Southampton. The arrangement
made
the with the dock proprietors at Southampton was made
for purpose of improvin which trade of Southampton
But an alteration had been made equalised the expense to 10s.
a ton at both docks and pier ; but the carriage of goods to and from
the pier was 2s. Gd. more than the docks.
John Davis re-examined—The charge of carrying 10 tons from
Southampton to Winchtleld tivas former y 21. 16s. after deducting the
" rebate" of 30 per cent., but now 31. 14s. 2d. was charged, thus in-
creasing the expense to 18s. 2d.
After a few observations from Mr. Davis, the case of the opponents
of the Bill was closed.

NiII.NCLIESTER. AND SOUTHAMPTON.
The formal proofs in this Bill were then adduced, and the Com.
mittee adjourned till Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, when Mr.
Servant Wraugham will open the case of the promoters.

GROUP XVIII.
EXILTER. ATM WESTERN RAILWAY.
B. Denison, Esq , chairman.
J. Jones,:
Esq., vice president of the Chamber of Commerce, Guern-
sey, was examined on behalf of the Great Western Company, but
his evidence was not of a nature even to benefit the South-Western
Company. The principal parts of his evidence went to show the
convenience of a railway from Weymouth to the northern, western,
and eastern parts of the country. In cross-examination, however, ho
admitted that all the railways were at present constructed from
which he cou'd derive any advantage.
Capt. White, commander of a steam-vessel between Southampton
and Jersey, proved the superiority of Weymouth over Portsmouth
as a harbour for the trade of the Channel Islands.
hlr. Devenish was next examined—Di the course of his examina-

tion, however,
The Citammax stated that his evidence, in his opinion, went as
much in favour of the Exeter and Yeovil Company as for the Great
Western.
3fr. Cullen and Mr. Fox were also called on behalf of the South-
Western Company.
At the conclusion of the last witness's examination, the CuAnnus
ordered the room to be cleared.
On the parties being re-admitted, the Cneramax announced that
the Committee had desired hint to intimate to the parties that they
should endeavour to ascertain whether it would not be practicable to
construct the line between Exeter and Yeovil in such ammeter that it
might suit beth gauges. They wished it at the same time to be dis-
tinctly understood that the opinion of the Committee was not to be
considered as favourable to either one scheme or other.
The Committee then adjourned till Monday week.