The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-02 00:00:00

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placed upon the table of the immediately
have
ed had stated
thathad been House
afterwards; that within the last ten years there had been a de-
crease of no less than 10.000 in the amount of crimes. In
igoo rant that
tf
the contents had
5 there were 36,300, and in the last year there had
Now, when the Right Hon. Baronet oppo-
I site attempted, on the introduction of this measure, to paint
an Irish picture, unfortunately, all the colours that he
used were dark ; and he thought that the Right Hon.
the
beeny year
butar,o 00 . s
Baronet might hereafter he called the Salvator Rosa of the
Treasury bench ; nay, he even made use of all the dark
horrors of that artist, without introducing any of his
light colours.—( Hear, and laughter.) He would now draw
attention to another important point. He saw by the return
made to Government, that in one year no less than 3,538 Bills
had been ignored by the grand juries of Ireland, and 2,089
prosecutions had been withdrawn. Would such a state of
things be permitted in England ? Would they permit 5,638 to
be unjustly charged, arrested, and imprisoned, and then let out
without. trial ? And yet Hon. Gentlemen stood up, and boast-
fully said that crime in Ireland had increased to such an alarm-
g extent, as to call for the suspension of the constitution.
Government were misinformed by the police—they maligned
the people of the country, and the result was that such Bills
as these were passed by that House for Ireland. Government
ought not to leave the people of Ireland in the hands of such
persons as these. The Hon. Member proceeded to refer to a
number of cases of misconduct of the police-officers and spies
of Ireland. In one instance the police had concealed some
arms in a poor woman's house ; they then went to the in-
former, brought him to the spot. and they took
away the arms, and concealed them a second time,
and then had the audacity to claim the rewards
of the Government for the discovery of arms they had twice
concealed:; documents of the Ribber' Society had been put in
the pockets of persons, and they were then prosecuted by these
spies and perambulatory police, for the purpose o• obtaining the
reward of their diabolical treachery. He hoped Government
did not allow the money, wrung so hardly from the people of
this country, to be expended in this manner. If the laws were
not properly administered let them live in a state of primeval
orieinalty. Leave them to themselves, and they would soon
send those assassins to the right about. ( Hear, hear.) Never
was a more unjust charge made against any people than had
been made in the course of the debate, that the Irish people
shielded the assassin from justice. The Hon. Member for
Pomfret, who had belonged to the New England school, had
called this measure a mere police regulation. He did not
agree with his Hion. Friend's New England doctrines—he
preferred the Old England constitution, and he hoped that
the Honourable Member would soon have to leave
Pomfret, in dire disgrace, with his New England theories.
Mr. W. COLLET(' considered that the infusion of capital
in Ireland would not remove the disposition to commit outrage,
and prevent crime. He would state a few facts to the House,
and in doing so he would not be accused of egotism. In 1838,
after having visited the four quarters of the globe, he pro-
ceeded to Ireland, which he found in a very bad state. He
thought that capital tieing introduced there might effect some
good, and he therefore chose that part of Ireland as the very
best adapted to prove the experiment—the wilds of Tipperary,
He employed eight hundred men in some mines there, and in-
vested 50,000/. In carrying out his projects, he had no consi-
deration for religion or polities, he employed all equally, and he
chose six gentlemen to superintend the works, three Catholics
and three Protestants ; two of whom had been murdered, and
not on any pretence of harsh usage or differei:ce as convected
with land. The first of them was murdered in a very barbarous
manner, by having a stone thrown on his back, of which he
;ingered for some time before he died. There was another, a
Roman Catholic steward, a very bold man, who said that
if they chose to attack him, let them do it in the day,
This steward was shot at and missed. He was shot at again
and struck in the side. The assassin was afterwards appre-
hended, tried, and punished for the offence, but the un-
fortunate steward has since been obliged to be under the pro-
tertian of the police. These outrages proved the necessity
tor such a Bill at the present. If they could only exterminate
these armed assassins-and the number of them was not very
great—peace and tranquillity would be restored. He believed
that he himself would be shut at for so small a consideration as
a bottle ot whiskey.—(Cries ot "Oh 1 MI") While this sys-
tem sl ou rage was going en he thought it high time that life
should be protected, and they were not asking toe much power
in trying to pass the Bill. If this Bill were
passed he would guarantee that the system of outrage
would receive a check. and the country would be
restored to a state of tranquillity. The police in Ireland
were a fine, efficient body of men, well organised, and well
adapted, from their local knowledge, for the state of things
which existed there. For his own part, he could say that, as
far as be was concerned, he would have the satisfaction of
having done his duty to his tenants, though he might fail in
producing the results which he desired. He wished the Bill
to be brought into operation at once, and if it was, a new state
of things would shortly arise, and Tipperary would become
—what it was not at present—a habitable country. The con-
duct oi the Government throughout the State trials was such
as to excite his warmest respect, and he sincerely hoped that
the same efficiency would characterise their present and future
measures for the peace and amelioration of teat unhappy
country, and that they might be able to say of it, as of the
Thames—
" Tnough deep yet clear ; though gentle, yet not. dull;
Strong without rage—without o'er .wing, full."
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFOriD said, that in speaking on
the question before the House, he would confine himself, as
nearly as possible, ro the amendments proposed by the Hun.
and Learned Member fir Co, k. Hr agreed with the Hon.
Member, that instead of outrage being put down by the Go-
vernment measure, it would but promote crime. He felt that
instead of Ireland receiving anything like justice from this
country, there was not a measure brought forward but such as
operated to the interest of the wealthier classes and to the injury
of the poor. They gave a poor-law to Ireland, hut what was
the relief afforded? It was matter of complaint that
the relief given by the Irish poor-law was not as
liberal as in this country.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.)
He would now conclude by again repeating his assertion that
he had always opposed those Coercion Bills, even when pro-
posed by the Whigs while in office; and, therefore, he could
not be supposed to be influenced by any interested or party
motives in opposing this Bill. If the House should go into
Committee upon it, he would there also oppose it, and he
trusted he would never see it the law of the land.
Mr. Fr Z 11A URICE said that, as an Irish Member, he
should say that, in his opinion, many of the crimes committed
in Ireland were owing to the wholesale system of eviction of
tenants, which he should say was a system that was a disgrace
to any civilised country. The Hon. Gentleman then entered
into a detail of various outrages that had occurred within his
own kn .wledge in Ireland. His own brother had been sub-
jected to them. His brother never visited his estate without
receiving threatening letters of the most violent character. 00
one occasion he went down to his property; and on arriving
there he found that one of his tenants was over head and ears
in debt, and had paid no rent. He forgave the man his rent,
and offered him 3(11. to go into another and a smaller farm,
when the man declared he was very ill used, and that on the
first time he met his landlord he would settle ac-
counts with him, and every body knew what that meant.
If Ireland wished to be glorious let her he glorious in her in-
dustry, and not notorious in her crime. He very much re-
gretted the statement of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, that
English Members were careless about the state of eland.
He did not think it fair or generous for the Irish Members to
taunt the English people with indifference. He felt bound to
say that one man with a thousand a year living in Ireland did
more good than another possessing ten thousand a year who re-
sided out of the country. The Hon. Gentleman concluded
by thanking the House for their kind attention to his
statements.
Mr. ROCHE had no doubt whatever that what the Hon.
Gentleman opposite had stated was quite true. He had no
doubt that he was well inclined towards Ireland. In the course
of the present discussion they had not to confine themselves to
the paltry and miserable Coercion Bill—the whole state of the
Irish question was to be canvassed. The condition of the Irish
people was an undoubted stain upon the British pride and
honour.—( Hear.) It laid upon teat House to do something
for the Irish nation—that was a result which had been arrived
at after a discussion of six weeks. He believed that no man
now thought that the present condition of Ireland ought to
continue. Every one admitted that. Ireland required some
remedy. He must say that he had never listened with so great
a feeling of despondency as he had done to the speech of the
Right Hon. Baronet opposite on a previous occasion. He did
not think that the Right Hon. Baronet had made
out a case for the Bill. He thought, however,
that he had made out a strong case for the
national party in Ireland. The year of all others in which
agrarian crime was least and the people more peaceful and
quiet, was in 1843. That was the year in which the Govern.
went had military posses-ion of the country, and they (the
repeaters) had the hearts of the people. It was the repeal
year, and the effects of their government was manifest in the
increased content which was spread among the people. '1 he
Right Hon. Baronet, in dealing with the question, had net
been candid with the House. He went into the statistics of
crime in 1843, 1844, and 1845, but he had not gone into
1846, and had failed in showing that there had been any ma-
terial progressive increase of crime in those years. The Right
Hon. Baronet had referred to the case of Hogan, who was
shot notwithstanding the vigilance of the police ; but he
had not shown how this crime would have been
avoided had the Coercion BJII been in existence,
He h;id referred to other cases that were equally inopportune
to support the case. In fact he had been endeavouring to delude
the people of England, in regard to this measure. A great deal
had been said about combination and ribandism, hut these he

(Mr. Roche) maintained had bee..n introduced from England
and could easily be met by the existing*
law. He said, there-
fore, there had been no case made out for
coercion,
or for this
He
illegal and unconstitutional measure. would tell them the
Biil, as it at present stood, never should pass that House. If
they took it into Committee. on them would be the rejonsi-
bility of bringing over the Irish Members to oppose its pro-
gress ; and he was sure it never would be
serve
of theriedunlesns it
was preceded by remedial measures. The
•f England, out of doors, was against it, and
all Ireland,Pas
well as its representatives, had declared against it. They
talked of the work of the agitators of Ireland, but in
answer to that he would ask, who made the griev-
ances? England had made these grievances, and these had
made the agitators.—(Hear, hear.) They had made him an
agitator, and vvl ile those grievances existed he would continue
an agitator.—(Hear' hear.) He would ask, who were to
govern Ireland, and how were they to govern it? The Right
lion. Baronet says, by coercion. The leader of the voting
party says the same thing ; and this was also echoed by the
Noble Lord on the other side (Lord George Bentinck). But
the division list would show who supported coercion, and who
did not ; and he would take eare that the people of Ireland
should see it. It was said that a kind of coalition existed be-
tween the Noble Lord opposi'e (Lord George Bentinck ) and
hie Hon. Friend who was in confinement—( A laugh)---but he
would tell them there could he no coalition with any one that
would vote for the coercion of Ireland. He ( Mr. Roche)
complimented that Noble Lord tor ,entiments that were anything
but coercive on the evening the alleged coalition was suggested.
Having settled that matter, he would again revert to the ques-
tion of coercion. Now, he asked the Right Hon. Baronet
why he did not introduce with this Bill some measure for re-
lieving the sufferings of Ireland? he listen to the heart.
rending di.elosures of the Hon. Member for Cashel? H
thought he did, for he observed that the statements of the Hon.e Member for t_ ashel made a great impression upon the Right
Hon. Baronet, and he wished to know if the Right Hon.
Baronet had nothing else but paltry advice to Irish landlords
to remove this dismal, this sail and lamentable state of things ?
But, he was asked, what could be done for removing the mise-
ries and for producing peace and tranquillity for Ireland ?
Well, he would tell them. They must make Ireland happy in
the same way that other countries were made happy, by letting
them be governed by their own People and their
own countrymen. That was the only rnPans which coulit
restore peace and happiness to his unfortunate and rirsgoverned
country ; and until these means were resorted to, there would
be moral victories achieved in Ireland.—(Cheer,..) Let them,
however, do ju-tice to that unfortunate country, and their vic-
tory would be more brilliant than any that had been achieved
of the Su. lej•
on the bank.
Capt. L A YA RD said, representing an Irish town, he could
not give a silent vote on the present occasion. He could pre-
dict most confidently that this Bill, to which he intended to
give his decided
opposition, would prove a failue. This was
the eighte nth time
a coercive Bill had been resorted to for
e
Ire and. It had always tailed, arid this instance, the House
nii,ht rely upon it, would wove no exception to the rule. If
Governa eat wished to remove agita ion and the cry for repeal
in let them do justice he people and the coun.
an ove
try. They had nowto
excellent opportunity of doingthis, and improving the condition of the people, by