The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON. TUIi,S)OAy MORNING, JULY 2l, 1846.

4th of August, call the attention of the Government
to the state of the tobacco duties, with a view to prevent
the smuggling which was so extensively carried on in
that article.

CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL AND SMALL

DEBTS BILL.

Mr. STEWART gave notice that he would, on
Weduesday next, move for a Committee to
consider and report on the Charitable Trusts Bill,
and of the expediency of giving the Commissioner of the
Court of Bankruptcy a power to hear complaints. and to
investigate all charges as to the misapplication of
trusts, with the. power also to call for all the accounts
of charitable trusts, with a view to their investigation.
Ile would also put a question to the Secretary for the
Home Department whether it was the intention of the
Government to push the Small Debts Bill, so that it
might pars this session.
Sir G. GREY said that it had been already announced
that it was the intention of the Government to pass the
Bill as soon as possible, and the Noble Lord under
whose care it was in the other House, had already fixed
as early a day as possible.
SIR ROBERT PEEL.
At this period Sir Robert Peel entered the House,
leaning on a stick ; the Right Hon. Gentleman seems to
suffer considerably from the accident which, has befallen
him. Ile took his seat. between Sir James Graham and
the ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Right Hon.
Gentleman looks pale and careworn.
REGIMENTAL STAFF-OFFICERS.

Capt. LAYARD rose to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary-at-War, if it was true, as had been lately
mentioned in the military newspapers, that a new war-
rant for giving an improved retiring allowance to regi-
mental staff-officers after a certain long full-pay service,
had been prepared by Mr. Sidney Herbert, and approved
of by Mr. Gottlburn, and which only required the royal
sign manual, in order that it might be promulgated to
the army ?
Mr. F. M AIME said that he found when he came
into office that a warrant was drawn up and prepared
on the subject, and waited only for the royal sign
manual.
DEATH FROM FLOGGING IN THE ARMY.

Dr. BOWRING, rose pursuant to notice, to inquire
of the Secretary-at-War, whether his attention had
been called to the case of Frederick White, a private in
the 7th Royal Hussars, whose death is reported to have
been caused by severe military flogging, and whether
any steps have been taken in consequence ?
Mr. FOX MAULE said that he was glad that the
lion. Member had brought the subject forward. The
facts of the case were simply these :—Frederick White,
the subject of the Hon. Member's motion, was a
private in the 7th Hussars. He had been guilty
of one of the grossest acts of military insub-
ordination of which a soldier could be guilty.
While in the performance of his duty he bed struck a
non-commissioned officer violently with a heavy poker,
and had not the officer perceived the intention of the
culprit, he would have received a most severe wound,
if not have been killed. He was, however,
knocked down by the blow. For this crime
he was tried on the 13th of June, by a court-
m•irt:al, and sentenced to receive the military punish-
ment of 153 lashes; that sentence was afterwards con-
firmed by his Grace the Duke of Wellington, and on
the 15th of June the sentence was carried into effect.
And he might state the course which was purstud in the
army with respect to soldiers sentenced to be flogged ;
it was this :—whenever a soldier was sentenced to receive
punishment by court-martial a certificate, signed by the
surgeon of the regiment, was sent to the War- office,
stating that the person was in a fair state to undergo
punishment, so that it might not be carried into effect
unless he were in a proper state of health. On the
15th of June, as he had stated, the punishment was
carried into effect ; and so far from any interference
having taken place by the surgeon of the regiment by de-
siring the man to be t; ken down, and that the commanding
officer bad refused to do so, he begged distinctly to
state that there was no interference either on the part of
the surgeon or commanding officer. After receiving
punishment the man was taken to the hospital in the usual
way, where he was visited, according to the practice in
the army, by the commanding officer every day. After
remaining in the hospital some time he was reported
convalescent, and so far recovered as to have been ac-
tively engaged in " fatigue duties." Ile was visited by
the surgeon and commanding officer, who stated that in
two days the man would be fit for duty. On
the 16th of July Colonel Whyte received information
that the man was dangerously ill. He immediately
visited him in the hospital, and under the circumstances
he desired Dr. Warren, the surgeon of the regiment, to
report his case immediately to Sir James Macgregor, in
order that further advice might be sent down ; but in
two days afterwards the man died, and a post mortm
examination was immediately made of his body, not only
by the surgeon of the regiment, but by two other me-
dical officers deputed by the Horse Guards, and that
examination bad satisfied the public that the death of
the man had not been caused by the punishment inflicted
on him. He understood further, that the medical
officer appointed by the coroner was of the same opinion.
He bad but one other observation to add. The public
seemed much horrified at a statement which had gone
abroad, that the skin on the back of the individual had
been removed. Now this statement was incorrect,
as that skin was removed after death for the
purpose of proceeding with the post mortem examination.
The subject was now in course of investigation by a
coroner's jury, and he would at the present say no more.
What he had said, however, would, perhaps, be consi-
dered enough to show that the case had been greatly
exaggerated, and that the proprietors of newspapers
would always do well to make themselves masters of the
particulars of cases like these before they alarmed the
public mind.—(Hear, hear.)
THE LONDON FEVER HOSPITAL.

Mr. P. BORTH%VICK, seeing the Right Hon. Baro-
net the Secretary for the Home Department in his
place, would take that opportunity of putting to that
Right Hon. Gentleman the question of which he had
given notice, but which he had not bad an opportunity
of putting to him the other night. He had no doubt,
from the auspicious manner in which the Eight lion.
Baronet had entered upon the performance of his duties,
that he would give a satisfactory answer to his question.
By an extract from the medical report of the London
Fever Hospital in the year 1846, it would appear that
no less than 130 patients were received into that
establishment from the Marlborough Union workhouse.
The accommodation, it would appear, was of the worst
description; between 90 and 100 men were crowded into
a room only thirty feet nine inches long and twenty feet
wide. The question which he should put to the Right
Hon. Baronet was, whether this matter had been at all
brought under his consideration, and, if so, whether he
had taken the necessary steps to compel the Com-
missioners of the Poor-law to do their duty in that im-
portant department? It was most clear that much injury
was suffered by the paupers, who had to seek relief in the
metropolitan workhouses, and much injury was done to
those who lived in the neighbourhood of the hospital in
question.
Sir G. GREY said that in consequence of the state-
ment which the Honourable Gentleman had re-
ferred to having appeared iu a public newspa:
per a few days ago, he communicated with
the Poor-law Commissioners on the subject. He under-
stood from them that the statement about the size of
the room was untrue. However the Commissioners
would shortly present a report on the subject of the
allegations, and when that was presented he would bring
it before the House. He hoped, however, the guardians
of the union would take measures to correct the dis-
graceful state of things.
CAPTAIN WARNER'S INVENTION.

Lord INGESTRE said be wished, with the leave of the
House, to correct an erroneous impression, which it would
appear a portion of the speech which he had delivered
the other evening had occasioned out of doors. It was
reported that he had told the House that he knew of
his own personal knowledge that Sir Thomas Hastings
had stated to the late editor of the Times that Mr.
Warner's invention was of no value. Now, he did not
know this of his own knowledge, but Mr. Barnes, the
late editor of the Times, had told him that the gallant
officer had admitted in general terms that he attached
no value to the invention, As they were not desirous
that he should re .d the letter, he would conclude by
stating that he had been anziou3 to correct the statement
ho had previously made in this matter.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said, that in reference to the
subject of Captain Warner's invention, the newspapers
had laid great stress on the services of the Noble
Lord (Lord Ingestre), and thought that through his ex-
ertions justice would yet be done to the Gallant Captain.
Re would ask the Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) whether there was to be any difference
shown in this case by the present Government to that
which had been shown by the previous one. He con-
sidered that the last Government had done all that was
necessary in the matter.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the present Government had no intention of offering
opposition to Captain Warner's invention without in-
vestigation.
SUGAR DUTIES—COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND

Net use is a, considerable sufferer by
f cider also that the r
1 the mode in which t hose duf.ee are raised. We con-
sider it most necessary , fen. the sake of the public, for the
sake of the interests nag 0:x ,ncerned, for the sake of
trade and commerce irx this country, to endeavour
to arrive at a permanen ~. a ettlement, and rot to expose
this question to discuss' tee ar.d doubt from year to year.
-(Hear, hear.) Witla, aas se motives, however unpre-
pared we may seem to b a I am now, Sir, about to
state to the Committece the general reasons on
which we have concei vt d the plan which I am
now about to pro pc ,se to this House for
the permanent settler lent of the question. Sir,
it has been generally ac knoveledged by all, by the most
intelligent writers for m ray years, that the sugar duties
Lave been enormously increased. Mr. M'Culloch, in
his " Dictionary of C, ummerces" as well as in his
recent work on tax ad on, states, that the in-
crease in the prices ee f sugar, supposing foreign
•to rise from 21s. tc ) 255., is in the last
three years not less than 3,240,0001. a year.
During these and the folio, wing years, by the advance in
the price of sugar, it seas rendered unattainable to a
large class of consume In, and, consequently, extremely
limited in
,the deman d. Massing now from what has
happened in former years, I will take notice of the
plan proposed by the Right Honourable Gentleman
the late First Lord of the Treasury, the effects of that
plan, and the views with which it was introduced.-
(Hear, hear.) The C bancenor of the Exchequer at that
time, in speaking of Java an gar, said that, observing the
price at some mont: as to be 2:'.5., and at other times at 245.,
he would take the average to be 20s. per cwt., which
would give a total c onsamy don of 43,000 or 44,000 cwt.
But in the course or the y ear a very considerable rise
taking place, and Ow Gazette prices averaging in the
four first weeks of April at 30s. a cwt.,
and in the four last weeks of December at 355. a cwt.,
the hopes of the Right Hors. Gentleman were to a great
degree disappointed. I wiiil next take the financial
statement of the First Lord of the Treasury, who said
he considered it probable, that the reduction of
the duty would equally increase the consump-
tion, which he estirnata,d from 120,000 to
160,000 tons, giving a return of 2,240,000 d.
The Right Hon. Gentlem an proceeded upon the reduc-
tion of sugars, and reduc ed the duties to the amount of
1 Is. per cwt. on the color dal sugar which was more than
sufficient, but by limiting th.!, field of supply, and raising
the duty with reference to other sugars to be admitted to
supply the market, his estimate was widely
different from the truth . With reference to the
other kinds of sugars there is the actual facts of the
case with reference to sug are from the Ist of January,
1845, to January Ist, 1846. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man calculated upon 160,000 tons of colonial sugar; the
actual consumption was 2 37,632 tons sugar, clayed or
equal to white clayed. The Right Honourable
Gentleman calculated up on 7,000 tons-the consump-
tion had been 1,107 fo.e3ign free-labour sugar ; the
amount estimated was 5,60C1 tons; the actual consumption
was 3,809 tons foreign fr.( e labour clayed, or equal to
white clayed 180,000 tons, the actual consumption only
54,000 tons. British Plat station Muscovado sugar was
estimated at 2,240,000, the actual consumption was
3,326,904, instead of '1,140,000 clayed sugar ; the
receipts were 18,0001- ,-; the difference between fo-
reign free labour and Muscovado sugar was 116,700
and 88,000 tons. 'llee total decrease, according
to the estimates, in the revenue received was 481,000/.
That was not the actual decrease, as a large proportion
of this sugar entered 1 efore the Right Hon. Baronet
proposed his plan, fel the actual difference is only
341,529/. Now, Sir, I think these accounts are sufficient
to show that, while the Right Honourable Baronet
acted upon the principle of reducing the duty for the pur-
pose of effecting an increase in the consumption he wasper-
fectly right. But it was an absolute failure when he pro-
posed to introduce different classes of sugar at differential
and high duties, and it was only there that be failed
to make up his revenue according to his estimate.
I will now proceed to state what are the general
prospects, as obtained from various sources as to the pro-
bable supply of sugar for the coming year, taking the
statement from the sth of April, 1846, to the sth of April of
1847. In the estimate which I now hold in my hand, which
I consider extreme, and by no means likely to be realized,
it is stated that the quantity of colonial sugar in ware-
house is 40,000 tons ; that statement sets forth the ac-
tual quantity, and is considerably less than the usual
amount. The estimated imports, calculated from the
sth of April, 1846, to the sth of April, 1847,
apportion, to the West Indies 125,000 tons ; from the
Mauritius, 50,000 tons ; and from the East Indies,
80,000 tons ; amounting in the whole to 255,000 tons,
according to this estimate ; and the most sugar which
may be expected from other foreign countries would be
20,000 tons more, making in the whole 275,000 tons, to
which 40,000 tons have to be added, giving a total
of 315,000 tons ; from this 45,000 the usual amount
must be deducted, leaving 270,000 tons. Now, Sir, I
have here various other returns with respect to the
supply of sugar for the period I have mentioned, which
appear to me to be no nearer the case than this. One
is a statement put forth by those interested in the
trade of the West Indies, which gives to the West Indies
125,000 tons, the Mauritius 50,000 tons, and the East
Indies 75,000 tons, making altogether 250,000 tons.
There is another statement with respect to refined sugars,
which apportions to the West Indies 115,000 tons, to
the Mauritius 40,000 tons, and to the East Indies 70,000
tons, making altogether 225,000 tons. I have another
account, which gives to the West Indies 110,000
tons, to the Mauritius 45,000 tons, and to the
East Indies, 35,000 tons, making altogether 180,000 tons.
I have another from persons engaged in the tracle,:which
makes the whole supply 230,000 tons. Now, Sir, about
230,000 tons may be taken as a fair estimate of the supply
of sugar for the forthcoming year. I have had a statement
prepared of the effect of the Right Honourable
Gentleman's plans, from January, 1845, to January
in the present year ; but the statement from April to
April gives 250,000 tons. I think we cannot say,
according to that statement, supposing the duties
were to be nominally what they were last year,
that there was less than 20,000 tons of increased con-
sumption. There was a statement made by the Right
Hon. Gentleman at the commencement of this year,
when he stated his general plan with regard to the
trade and finances of the country, in which he proposed
that there should be a reduction on free labour sugar
to 19s. 10d. from 235., but that the duty
on all foreign sugar should remain the same.
Now, Sir, I have an extract from a circular, published at
Liverpool, and which is dated Feb. 2, 1846. It says,
6 The effect of the alteration in the sugar duties will be a
reduction of 3s. 6d. per cwt. for foreign free-labour sugar.'i
I believe that statement is made by a person of experience
in trade, and which is thoroughly borne out by the fact
that you will be disappointed in obtaining an increase
in the revenue proportionate to the increase in
the consumption of sugar ou which a heavy tax
is paid. Now, let it be borne in mind,
that supposing the consumption is 250,000 tons, there
will be a tax upon. the people of this country, under
present circumstances, of 1,400,000/.--Vlear, hear)-
and that is a tax which .10-es not Bow into the Ex-
chequer.-(Hear, hear.) I should, therefore, be na-
turally disposed •to propose the admission of other
foreign sugars into the markets of this country
to sur ply the deficiency under which we at present suffer
very materially. But, Sir, we are met by an objection
which has hitherto prevailed upon this Ilousa, contrary
to the system which has prevailed during the last four
or five years, but which has not prevailed hero during the
present year, viz., that the people of this country
should not be allowed to buy in the cheapest market.
There is also another principal objection raised against
the removal of the duties on sugar, and that is,
that if all sugar was admitted free into this coun-
try, we should be encouraging the slave trade,
and that there are other considerations which
outweigh all financial and commercial views, viz., those
which are connected with the comfort and welfare of the
people at large. Sir, in examining that argument which
I do not propose to do at any length, I will just point
out what I think to be the weakest part of it.
That argument fails, because while you refuse admis-
sion to your home markets of the sugars from foreign
countries, you place no such barrier on the admission of
other productions-of cottons, tobacco, Copper, and
various other things which are produced by slave labour;
and, therefore, Sir, you do not actually carry into effect,
or even pretend to carry into effect, those humane views
which persons who are most opposed to tho admission
of slave produce consistently maintain. I hold in my
hand a circular with respect to the sugar duties.
After pointing out the increase which had taken place
in the produce of cotton from 1790 to 1845, the paper
proceeds to call down the indignation of all moralists
against slavery. But the paper omits one important
point. It states no reason why the United States should
be excepted from the principle of exclusion.-(Hear,
hear.) Now, nobody can have forgotten the elo-
quent statements that were made in this House a short
time back by a Right Hon. Friend who sits near me,
with respect to slavery and the slave trade.-(Hear,
hear.) I mean the Right Honourable Gentle-
men, the Member for Edinburgh. Nobody can deny
the force of the observations which he made,
or the facts which he then stated. We admit a
large quantity of the produce of America, and thus, to a
jcertain extent, hold out an encouragement to the slave
trade; but to preserve QUI' COllDigellOy UNA itis subject,

we ought to say to the United States, "we will not admit
your produce until you solve the problem which now oc •
cupies the attention of the Anti-Slavery Society, of how
emancipation shall he brought about in the United
eluded sugar they
States." In fact, for the same reason that they ex-
ought to shut out American cotton.
The same thing may be said with regard to many other
articles. With regard to copper ore, slave labour is
freely used in the production of that article, and
supply
been
only
from
rloem t o y
yet we do not exclude it from our markets.—(Bear.)
Such is your position if you proceed on this exceptionary
rule in regard to the product) of foreign countries. But
youupp laae not
yourselves ground
which in
slavery your
dealings with these countries. You have not been able to
y
your colonies
ii
in does not exist, or from countries where free labour alone
exists.—(Hear, hear.) And in increasing your sup-
plies, you have been under the necessity of admitting
sugar from the countries where slavery, or something
approaching it, does exist, in order to meet the wants
of the markets of this country.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) In your dealings with these countries
you have not been able to carry out the principle
on which your present law is founded. You have not
been able to inquire what is the peculiar state of society
in Java, or whether it is not estate of slavery, something
at least approaching to it. What the particular state of
society is in Manilla, you have equally failed in in-
quiring into. In obtaining a larger supply of sugar
from these countries, you have not ventured to act on
those principles of law upon which you have proposed
to act, but you admitted their produce on the faith of
the treaties you had with them ; you have admitted their
produce as: tl-,e produce of the most favourned nations,
and in competition with the produce of free
labour.—(Hear, hear.) I say you have admitted the
sugar of these countries, and though the qaantity intro-
duced may not have been great, still you have hacked
out of the strict principle which you have laid down.
There can be no doubt of this. But in doing this you have
refused to Spain the advantages which you have given
to other countries. Spain claimed, under the treaty
with her, the right of sending produce to this
country on the footing of the most favoured nations.
You have, in agreement with your principle,
been obliged to refuse, though the act, I am
bound to . say, does not redound much to the
honour of a great country like this.—(Hear, hear.)
It was shown by the Spanish Ministers two years ago,
that within the last ten years Spain has claimed the
benefit of the treaty of being admitted on the footing
of the most favoured nations, but it has been repeatedly
refused.—(Hear, hear.) On this subject I cannot but be
of opinion that although the treaty with that country
might not strictly warrant its produce being admitted on
the most favourable terms, yet that the principle of the
most favoured nation ought to have been applied to it.
The same principle ought to have been applied to the fish-
eries of the two countries, at Newfoundland and elsewhere.
If the salt fish of England, then the salt-fish of Spain
must be refused also; and the same rule must be.applied
to the salt-fish of France. The Spanish Minister
said that he acknowledged the principle, but he said
also that these treaties required to be revised by
the different countries. That is the sum and
substance of the conversation between the Ministers
of England and Spain, proving sufficiently that
the opinions of English and Spanish Ministers were
against that state of things. Now, when persons
stand up for a permanency in these duties,
they must endeavour to find excuses for
their opinions. But there are further and more
vital objections against the admission of slave
sugars. 'Rey do, to a certain degree, diminish
the price of free-trade sugar even in Great
Britain ; but the resources of commerce
are injured, yet the spirit of commerce is too ener-
getic to be bound by the stipulations on this question.
But what do the merchants do ? They endeavour
to find markets in other countries ; they search
Europe ; they coast the Mediterranean; they reach
Petersburgh and other places, and in this way
they find markets for their slave-grown produce.
Now, Sir, this affects our markets ; it may be
in a very inconvenient way, and attended with a good
deal of loss to English commerce ; but still it does away
with the objection so often urged, namely, that no em-
ployment is given by England to the cultivation
of Cuba and Brazilian sugar. I see it sometimes said—
popularly said that this slave-grown sugar
is the produce of tyranny the produce
of crime—that it is £0 much stolen material,
so much stolen goods, which it is asked
us to consume. This is very well, but what would be
thought of a person who would come with a quantity of
stolen sugar—stolen from an adjoining warehouse—
who would come to a shopkeeper and offer it
for sale. The shopkeeper would say, " Why, these are
stolen goods ; I cannot buy them, but I have a
neighbour who has no scruples. I will direct
You to him, and he will buy ; I can pur-
chase from him again with the full drawback ;"
and by this proceeding the whole morality of the
affair is lost.—(Hear, hear.) I therefore, Sir, for
these several reasons, on which I will not further
dwell, hold that the ground which has been
hitherto taken by the Governments of this
country has not been the correct one—(Hear, hear)—
and that we must in this instance, as in the propositions
of the late government, adopt the principle of re-
moving all restriction, and of admitting the
people of this country to the best and cheap-
est markets .; and, acting on this principle,
we must admit the sugar of foreign countries into the
United Kingdom. But, Sir, while I say that you have
no sufficient grounds any longer to refuse to the people
This country that benefit—( Hear, hear. )—while you ought
not to deny to them the power of obtaining their sugar
at one million and a half, or two millions of money
less than the price that it now pays, there
are other considerations which indeed it would be improper
and imprudent to overlook, and which demonstrate that
such a change cannot take place immediately. It was
very fairly urged by the West India proprietors that the
change from slavery to freedom was an immense revolu-
tion, in affecting their interests and the market for labour ; the
revolution changed the produce of the growers from 4,000,000 to
:2,500,000 in the course of a very few years ; and that even
your twenty millions of compensation, large and liberal as it
was, has not been a full compensation for the loss
which they have suffered.—( Hear.) They say, moreover,
that having had to reconcile themselves to this great change,
and to employ persuasion where they had formerly used
compulsion—persuasion to entice them away from indolence,
which was natural to a people just made free—and that this
country did not allow them a full admission to the other markets
of the world where they could have obtained free trade. Now
I think they are somewhat justified in these complaints.
The jealousy of Parliament upon this question was the origin
and cause of the orders in Council which prohibited the pro-
curing any labourers from Africa. Such was the course which
led to the rejection of the complaints made in the House of
Lords of those orders in Council which prohibited the importation
of Hill Coolies from the East Indies into the West Indian colo-
nies. But it was not, however, the less a real grievance to
the proprietors of estates in the West Indies; nor should it be
urged as a claim against the equalisation of these duties with
the sugars of other countries. There were reasons also
connected with the revenue which should not induce
Parliament to sanction an immediate, equalisation of the du-
ties. Any sudden change of duty 'would, no doubt, most
seriously affect the revenue ; but it would also throw out of
cultivation some of our colonies, and consequently keep the
markets of this country badly supplied fora considerable time ;
and, therefore, in the measure which I intend to propose
to this House, I shall propose a considerable reduction of duty
for the present year, and a gradual reduction from year to year
in the duties until they are equalised. It was thought
that the Government. would be disposed to reduce
the duties upon foreign sugars to 235. pet' cwt.,
but, considering that proposition, it appears to me
that by a slight increase of the prices of foreign sugar in
this country we shall entirely lose the benefit of such reduc-
tion both to the consumer and to the grower. The m erage
price of foreign sugar according to a printed paper laid on
the table of the House, on the motion of my Honourable
Friend the_ Member for Lambeth, was for brown or yellow
sugar 20s; sd. The average price of West 'lndia,
Mauritius, and East India sugar was 225. ed.; these prices are
for the year 1845. Now, Sir, supposing the duty is 235. 4d.,
and the price of Manilla sugar should rise to 255., you would
then have the price of sugar to the consumer 48s. 4d., and we
should then be exposed to the same results which followed the
policy of the Right Hon. Baronet with reference to this question.
I should, therefore, propose, that in the present year, instead
of the duties of 635., of prohibitory duties, and duties of
235. 4d., I shall propose that on all foreign Muscovado sugar of
21s. per cwt. the duty should :),3 diminished in the follow-
ing manner:.—

From the sth of July, 1846, to sth of July, 1847 2ls.
••• 1847, to sth of July, 1848 2os.
••• 1848, tooth of July, 1849-- ISs. 61
1849, to sth of July, 1850 l7s.
••• 1850, to sth of July, 1851 lss. 6d.
1851, to sth of July, 1852, that
a duty of l4s.
should apply to all Muscovado sugar in five years from the sth
of July, 1847. Now, Sir, I say nothing here of the propriety or
advantage that might be derived from a still further reduction of
14s. per cwt. I do not think that, considering this in operation—
that it is to be continued over five years—considering
also the present state of the revenue, of which
I shall have something to say before I conclude,
and considering the present state of the Government, I
do not think it would be right for us, on any specula-
tion, to ask for any considerable reduction beyond this, an I
especially when it is borne in mind the reductions which had been
made by the Hight Hon. Gentleman last year. Now, I should
say that with respect to the distinction that was made last year
as to clayed sugar, it is quite true that I have shown by
analogy, that that was not overrated with respect to
the sugars to which it was proposed to be ap-
plied. I find with regard, to Havannah sugar, that there
is white, or white clayed sugar, of which the price is
more than 43. I have only to state at present that in the Bill
which I shall have the honour to lay on the table of the
House I propose to keep up the distinction of last
year. I do this on the grounds I have stated. I
I have not been able to ascertain all the information
I could have wished on the subject and therefore, with regard
to that part of the plan which may be affected by subsequent
information, I will not too minutely enter.
Sir R. PEEL--On all clayed sugars?
Lord J. RUSSELL—On all clayed sugars. There is a
similar reduction, from year to year, on the refined sugar and
on the double refined sugar, and I need hardly, I think, enter
into the details, but at once lay the list on the table of
the House. The reduction is in similar proportions to
these Made ea the Other Dugan. Sir, with respect to

the various subjects on which the West Indian
body have stated that while they think that any equalisation in
the foreign fuel colonial sugars is unjust to them, and incon-
sistent with the policy which Parliament has hitherto sanctioned,
and yet, supposing it to be done, that there are claim which
they think they are entitled to make, and placing them on per-
fect equality as respects the production of other parts. The
first is, that subject which I have mentioned to the
House, the subject of emigration. We find, I remember myself,
when I was in the Colonial-office, we so far relaxed the orders
of Council, which have hitherto passed ; and proposed to take
the sanction of the Queen in Council, aed obtain an order for
permitting negroes to emigrate from Sierra Leone and the
West Indian islands. Now, those orders in Council have been
very much considered by the Government that followed ;
various other relaxations have been made with respect to ether
parts of the world ; I believe very considerable indulgence has
been adopted by Mr. Gladstone when he was Secretary of
State for the Colonial Department. With respect to that sub-
ject there is only one material alteration which we propose to
make. It is that the contracts or agreements which are en-
tered into in Sierra Leone, or the British settlements, or
Africa, as to the employment of negroes should hold good in
the West Indies. We think, upon the whole, that with the
present knowledge which the West India proprietors have on
this subject, and with the knowledge of that which was stated
by Lord Metcalfe, admitting the fact that labourers
in Jamaica, and most other Indian islands have
much more demands on the employed than the
employed on the employers, I should say that we might give
permission for contracts of service to be made for a single year.
But with regard to another proposal which is to be made,
namely, that they should be allowed to make those contracts on
the coasts of Africa, where we have not possessions—where the
British flag does not wave, we do not think it sufficient that
such should be made without some additional conditions.
Other questions the West India interest has laid considerable
stress upon ; for instance, they say rum is not admitted upon
equal terms with the liquors and spirits of other
states and colonies. We have looked into this,
and we think a reduction in the duty may be
safely made from Is. 6,1. to Is.—(Hear, hear.) There is
another subject which they complain of. They complain of
the differences which exist in the excise duties of Scotland
and Ireland ; but we think that to make any alteration in this
respect would be at tended With a good deal of difficulty. —( Hear.)
There is another article which they wished to have released
from the excise restrictions. They ask us to allow molasses
to be used in distilleries free of duty ; but here there arc diffi-
culties in our way, and we cannot at present give them this
advantage. Now I think it is but fair, while we are applying
free-trade principles at home, we ought to extend
them to the colonies.—( Hear, hear.) We therefore purpose
to relax the duties which are imposed on the introduction of
timber and provisions into certain of our colonies.--( Hear.)
In speaking of this subject some years ago, I said that I
thought the whole system of the country had gone on in a
vicious circle.—( Hear, hear.) The manufacturers asked for
protection, and the colonist and the farmer were not enabled
toget supplies of manufactured goods from foreign countries, and
were obliged to pay a high price for the home produce. The
farmer asked for protection, and the manufacturer and the
colonist were not able to get supplies of provisions elsewhere. '
The colonist also asked for protection, and, in consequence of
this the farmer and the manufacturer were not
able to receive supplies from them. The whole system
was a bad one, and I then stated that we ought to endeavour
to break the circle.—( Hear, hear.) That has been in a great
measure done since I then spoke • and I do not think, unless
the ground of morality and slave labour is to be con-
sidered an argument now, that you can continue to keep
up in favour of the colonies the differential scale of
duties—a tax which pressed so heavy on the country.---( Hear,
hear.) Ido not think that those parties who, during the pre-
sent
session of Parliament, have favoured protection to the
agricultural interests, if they oppose the alteration in these
differential duties, could give a satisfactory account of
it to their constituents.—( Hear, hear.) It might have
been well for them to have done so, had their plan for pre-
ventng the abolition of the protection to the landed interest
succeded, but it had not done so; this they could not say,
and therefore it would be better that they should go before their
constituents and say that the time for the abrogation of all
these protection duties had arrived. I believe
that it will not be considered satisfactory for them to say, we
have been urouccessful in the support of our principle, or the op-
posite opinion has prevailed, yet we will so contend that the co-
lonial produce should still continue dear to the farmer, and that
the labourers he employs shall continue to pay a high price for al
the colonial produce he consumes. 1 will beg leave
to refer to another subject, because it has reference
to another year. The Right Honourable Gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequee, in his statement
lately made to the House, drew a fattening prospect of the
financial condition of the present year, but it was impossible
not to observe that with regard to the future year his
statement was not of so consolatory a description.
The Right Hon. Gentleman's estimate for the next half-year,
is 91,650,000/. ; out of this sum the China money is to be de-
ducted (7,0000, and the estimate therefore fur the expenses
of the United Kingdom, is calculated at 20,95,1,000/.
The expenditure the Right Honourable Gentle-
man estimates at 50,873,000/., but if we take
away from that expenditure 200,0001., which
may be considered an expense of a temporary nature, it leaves
an amount of 50,673,0001. But then we must add certain ex•
penses which the Right Hon. Baronet has not added. There
is the Irish constabulary, of which the expenses for the half year
is only taken. We must add for this item to next half year's
account 175,000/. ; we must also add for extraordinary services
283,000/.; for school and medical attendants on poor-law unions
61.5001. ; half-year's expenses for prosecutions in Great Bri-
tain, 60,000/., and for Ireland, 9,0001., making alto-
gether an amount of 62.,550,000/. I should, therefore,
state the future permanent expenditure of the country,
according to the Right Honourable Gentleman's esti-
mate, at 51,302,0,101., and the permanent income
at 50,950,000, thus leaving a deficiency for the
years 1547,) F4B, of 352,0401. Now when there is a prospect
like that made out for us by the Right Hon. Gentleman, it
seems to us expedi, nt that an endeavour shall be
made to obtain an increase of income, at the same time that
no augmentation of burdens shall be placed upon the people.
The plan which I have to propose, supposing that there were
240,000 tons of sugar, for the produce of the West and
East Indies and the Mauritius, would give a return of
three millions three hundred and sixty thousand pounds.
1 stated that it might be expected that 20,000 tons of free-
labour sugar might arrive in the course of the present year.
With regard to other sugars no very great supply might
be expected, owing to the examination clause.—( Hear.)
The greater part of the supply of foreign sugar at present in
warehouse has been brought here in American ships, which is
therefore inadmissible in this country by reason of the Naviga-
tion Act. Now, Sir, I should think it very presumptuous
in us, for a mere emergency, to propose an alteration in the
navigation laws ; for I consider any question arising as to them
ought to be matter for grave and serious consideration, that
there might be a permanent change in them, if change be by
auy means required. The consequence will be, that a small
proportion of sugar will be admissible. I have taken great
pains to inquire, and I find that eight or ten thousand tons at
most of foreign sugar.
Mr. G OUL BUR N—Warehouse sugar?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL —Of foreign warehouse sugar
would be admissible by the present change, but I think we
may take the whole of what would be admitted of foreign
sugar at 20,000 tons, 10,000 more for slave, grown sugar,
and 10,000 of other sugar, making in all 40,000 tons,
which at 211. would give 840,000/. I think in this statement
I have taken the foreign sugar at the very lowest estimate ;
but looking on it as a question of revenue, I consider that
it would return 4,200,000/. Now the revenue derived
by the plan of the Right Hon, Gentleman was 3,475,000/.
So, therefore, the plan which I propose will give an increase
of 7,253,000/., which will turn the account in our
favour, and show a surplus.—(ll ear.) I have now
stated generally to the House what is the plan
proposed by her Majesty's Government with reference
to the sugar duties ; and I should add that I look upon
this plan as one which, so far as the principle is con-
cerned, is to be a permanent settlement of those duties.—
( Hear, hear.) I shall therefore propose, if those duties are
carried into Committee, to found upon them a Bill in which I
shal make the sugar duties permanent, and not leave the ques-
tion to be debated year after year. Much, Sir, as the West
Ind a interest may feel themselves aggrieved by the change
which takes away this prohibition, I think the settlement
of a question which has been to them a source
of so much anxiety, and which has been so
repeatedly a matter of debate, will be in a great degree a com-
pensation for that change. Ido not propose to vary in any
respect that constitutional practice of leaving a large amount
of revenue dependent upon the yearly vote of the House of Com-
mons, and I shall propose, therefore, some other source of re-
venue, which I shall state to the House before these resolutions
are come to on the Bill, which shall be made a yearly income,
and for which the Minister of the Crown shall every year ask
the Parliament. I know some persons will say that by this
plan we are again destroying that principle of protection which
is due to the colonies, and estranging the affections and loyalty
of the people. I consider, Sir, that the time is come, when with
reference to this subject you must adopt an altered policy, and
I think an improved policy. It was the habit of this and
other countries to provide they should have a jealous mono-
poly of the commerce and the productions of the colonies,
and that the colonies should be obliged to take the
exclusive productions and manufactures of the mother
country. ther
country. I believe no country was more jealous
this respect than Spain. Spain had a vast colonial
em-
pire, and vet at the end of a century and a
half
after she had'aequired that empire, we find Sir Hobert Wal-
pole stating to this House, upon the question of Spanish trade
with Spanish America and the Spanish West Indies, that the
greater part of the goods sought to be introduced to Europe
would belong not to Spaniards, but to foreign countries.
Such, Sir, was the result of a rigid and exclusive system,
without the energy and freedom of a commercial empire.
My belief is, that if you support the proposition
of the Government, that the colonies will gain, and
not suffer, by this great change in your policy. I believe
that the cultivation of sugar itself will be improved to a great
extent—( Hear, hear)—when the colonists know that they
must compete in the markets of the mother country with the
productions of other countries.—( Cheers. ) I believe that they
will derive great energy from being allowed to seek where theye
like for the cheapest products of the other countries of fth
that
globe. And, Sir, recollect that you do not part with
great advantage—that neither in this country should we ever
impose differential duties against the colonies, nor should the co-
lonies impose differential duties as against us. It .ca commerce se-
cure in war as well as inpeace— a commerce which is not exposed
to the danger of conflicting tariffs, but which
The colonists
i ch regulated
solely by a view of what is for the beneti of
derive, I think, great advantage n being connected with
this country, having the advantage of all the skill
and the accumulated capital of this company and this empire
has an immense advantage in the loyalty, the power and the
assistance of the colonists. But these colonists must hereafter
not exist on the limited and restricted system of
former days that limited arid restricted system
must be acknowledged to be erroneous. Our
principles must be altered. I believe that both the mother
country and the colonies would flourish all the more for the
abolition of useless restrictions—that after some period of mur-
muring, perhaps, its advantage will be acknowledged ; but in this
country, and in the magnificent possessions which belong to us,
it will be acknowledged that we have hitherto been mistaken
in the value of the policy which has been adopted, and an
affection will be all the stronger when neither is subject to re-
strictions, except those imposed upon the other.—( Hear,
hear.) When the colonies are neither obliged to
submit to some restriction for some supposed bene-
fit to the mother country, nor the mother country
deprived of the benefit of some of the choicest pro-
ductions of the globe for some interests to be favoured at the
expense of an important policy. I trust the colonial empire
of this country is an empire of which every statesman
of this country must justly be proud—to which the people of
this country justly attach the highest value. I trust
that when this better system has been adopted, we
shall see those colonies increase and flourish—that
we shall be proud of them as our possessions, and
enjoying the liberty which we have given them, arid that
both may flourish for long years together. Sir, I shall now
only propose to the House a resolution for the continuance of the
present duties, and lay on the table the resolution, the nature
of which I have stated in Committee. I trust that these
resolutions will hereafter be adopted, and that they will
soon receive the sanction of Parliament; and should they be
adopted, I think the present Ministry, however short may be
their tenure of office, will not have administered affairs
without some utility to the country.—( Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord concluded by proposing a resolution