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SPEECHES OF MM. THIERS AND
GUIZOT, IN THE CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES,
ON THE POLICY OF FRANCE.

In the course of Wednesday last, the discussion of
the estimates afforded M. Thiers, who has been of late
comparatively silent, an opportunity of arraigning the
whole system of M. Guizot's policy. The following is
his speech :
M. THIERS said that it was in order not to interrupt the
discussion of the Chapters that he addressed the Chamber
at that moment. He stood there to support by antici-
pation the amendment of M. 0. Barrot. The Chamber
would comprehend that it was not a vote that he came
forward to solicit, nor did be want, on the eve of an
election, to excite men's minds by a highly-coloured
picture of grievances. His only design was to ex-
pose to all impartial and enlightened men the
motives of his opposition. In his opinion, a reaction
had been for some years going on, not of a vio-
lent character, for such could not take place in the
preeentetimes, but a moderate reaction, 'such as had been
manifested at the revolution of 1830. He had contri-
buted to found and consolidate the present Government,
and he now attacked it, not in its essence—God forbid!—
but in some of its acts—in the acts of its servants, the
present Ministers, who, in following their own tastes,
imagined they were serving its interests. Some month,,
back he said that all governments commenced by being
right, and finished by being in the wrong. He cited the
revolution, the empire, and the restoration—tie revolu-
tion, humane at first, and cruel afterwards ; the empire
at first sage and well ordered, and then despotic and mad
after senseless conquests ; and, lastly, the restoration,
which came in 1815, as it declared, to preserve all lawful
rights, and yet violated in 1830 all the rights of the na-
don. Was the present Government following the
example of the three preceding ones ? He should say
what it ought to have been, what it had been, and what
it now was, and then a judgment could be formed on the
subject. He should first examine what its conduct
ought to have been at its birth. There were two
courses open to it a warlike or a pittific one.
A government, young and ardent, taking advantage
of the enthusiasm which prevailed in France, and
the agitation which pervaded Europe, might endeavour
to take a glorious vengeance for the events of 1815,
but the result of such a course was doubtful, and that
was sufficient to condemn it. The new Government
beheld Europe, the higher classes of society, and the
Church, withdrawing from it. In such a position, the
policy of the Government should have been pacific and
moderate, but firm. Europe should have been made to
feel that France wished for peace, not from fear but
from calculation; the upper classes of society should
comprehend that in respecting their position, the Go-
vernment of the country was not to be rendered subject
to them, and that, if they were hostile, it would be
maintained with a firm hand; the church should be
made to see that in preserving to its dotation and ho-
nours, no principle was to be sacrificed. In fine, an able
and prudent Administration was required—an Adminis-
tration, placing on a strong basis the navy, army, and
finances. On these two conditions, of a peaceful and
firm policy, and of a prudent Administration, the new
Government could have arrived at the destiny of those
officers of fortune who, having become Catinats and
Vaubans, marched on an equality with the Condos and
Montmorencis.—(Applause.) He might be told that this
was what it had been and what it now was; he would
reply, " No, it is what it commenced by being, but
what it is no longer." What was seen at the origin
of the Government? A liberal alliance with Eng-
land, which upheld the influence of France in Europe.
All the statesmen of the day were in accord in endea-
vouring to put down disorders without effusion of blood;
and when the Government demanded 100,000,000 to
complete the public monuments and public works, the
Chamber gave it them, great as the sum was, with con-
fidence. The conduct of the Government was then
proper and prudent—such, in fact, as suited their situa-
tion. But afterwards that prudence was changed into a
desire to preserve their positions; it became mere inert-
ness; and complete immovability appeared to govern all
their acts. The Hon. Deputy then proceeded to sketch
the various circumstances in which this unwillingness to
move was manifested. He instanced Spain, where
France refused to interfere ; he referred to Belgium,
which, from the refusal of France to act, had lost
Luxembourg, and the French troops were obliged to
evacute Ancona. This last circumstance appeared so
heinous that then was formed the coalition, in which M.
Guizot, M. Duchatel, and the Duke de Broglie had
united to overthrow the Mole ministry. Afterwards
came the coolness between France and England. In
consequence of the checks which arose from it, France
desired to take her revenge, and went to seek it in the
east. He had not placed credit in the illusions
which were entertained on this point, and, in fine, it
came to pass that the Eastern question was lost like the
others. What was the proper course to be pursued at
the period just alluded to? Evidently to keep apart—
in a state of isolation, completely removed from hostility;
but it was desired to renew the allegiance, and for that
purpose an extension of the right of search was con-
ceded. The country became greatly agitated in conse-
quence, and the Government was obliged to demand. back
the concessions that were made. Then, to turn the at-
tention of the public mind in another direction, a lure
was thrown out, and the expedition to the Marquesas
was devised. Here, again, it was found necessary to re-
coil, but this time it was not before the country, but be-
fore England that the withdrawal took place.—(Hear,
hear.) Admiral Dupetit-Thouars was disavowed, and
an indemnity was granted to the arrogant missionary
who had caused the blood of their soldiers to be shed.—
(Murmurs.) But this was not all. Worse than this
was done. A difference arose between England (the
chance ally of France) and the United States, her fun
damental ally, and France took the part of England.
The very utmost that the Government ought to have
done, was to have observed a kindly neutrality.—
(Hear, hear.) But from all these concessions, bad
France, at least, reaped any advantage ? No. In
Syria, where she asked for a little humanity to the
Christian populations, her voice was unheard ; and
in Greece, where she only desired to see sound policy
established, her wishes were thwarted. It was
said that peace had been observed. He allowed that
peace was a great blessing ; but let the Chamber not
forget that on the occasion of the miserable affair of the
Marquesas, and at the moment of the Pritchard amend-
ment, France was nearer war than she had been for 15
years before.—(Marks of denial from the Centres.) The
Hon. Deputy here again referred to the state of Spain,
and accused the Government of wishing to appear to
exercise an influence there, which in reality it did not
possess. He referred to cases of Espartero and Narvaez,
both of whom were at first supported by the French
Government, and then utterly neglected. How, he
would ask, was Spain situated at present ? Queen
Christina, whom he had been anxious to succour in her
distress, and whom he had not flattered in her prosperity,
had admitted into her heart a most unjustifiable hatred
for the sons of her sister—(Murmurs)--and under the
influence of that most lamentable sentiment—(oh, oh,)
—had sought in Naples a husband for her daughter in
the Count de Trapani.—(Movement.) He had no in-
tention to give any opinion relative to that candidate,
but every one well knew that the choice was impossible;
he was opposed by all parties in Spain, and was par-
ticularly odious to the Moelerado party. By that un-
ohfepower must
b e
had b
permitted y
beehonourable
atopredominant
say
v motives.—(Murmurs.)
so . many—r
e(oali reason.—(Renewed
thea.sni
politicalvue(rß
un-
happy selection, that Queen. whom France could not
devise the means of effectually succouring, and whom
she had flattered beyond measure, had divided that
party, and at present that was the greatest difficulty in
Spain. But to return to the policy pursued in France.
For some years a change had been gradually going on
in the majority. Whilst some men, and his own party
amongst others, had separated from it, others had joined
it. He was convinced that the greater number had been
influenced
murmurs. What was the consequence of this change?
attraction s.ae) nned ti
ed
But
he
Formerly the Government confined itself to defend-
ing itself against parties ; it was, in fact, with hesi-
tation that it ventured to avow a candidate at the
reel escutlitoonfs . t
hAi
st
conduct
present t the
would
be Government,tha t i
n afasrhforrotmtilmimeitit:
administrationits action-to
be
c e
nahosots
however,
imenvgeedr,elsetheth thanoffensive,
e
right of the strument. He admitted,n
Go-
vernment to defend itself, but it h oug ttodo so with
some reserve—it ought to impos
defenders. e some reserve on its

The MINISTER of FOREIGN AFFAIRS.—The Govern-
ment could not answer for newspaper articles.
M. TRIERS was glad to find that the Hon. Minister
understood his allusion. But though the Government
could not answer in all things for its defenders, yet
there was between a Ministry and the journals whichh
defended it, a certain common bond. Whilst of late the
opposition press became more moderate, that of the
Go-
vernment became more violent. But that only provedlB3o the
that the opposition press was in the right.
moderate press belonged to the opposition,
llvtahwehvaitolheandt
one to the Government, and every one
taken place. The Hon. Deputy then. rlkeapearrota;hteoddrtahwe
Cabinet with departing from the. national party
said that,
closer to the legitimist and religious one.
he
Duke of
though the journey to Londoili toase.e
it b
shotwheed
Bordeaux was attacked so violently
Go-
vernment in the Chamber.ter,
f yetwards with the le
it-
self very accommodating
the great question of na•
gitimist party, When
tional education was at stake.t The Hon.
and finances.Dcputythe
then
referred to the state of the navy, a
He accused the Government of allowing the navy to fall

PRICE SD.

to ruin, and said that had not the Chambers interfered
it would have done nothing. The army, he allowed,
was active, ardent, and intelligent, but he denied that it
was properly organised ; the recruitment regulations
were insufficient, and the cavalry was not certain of
procuring horses. In allusion to the state of the
finances, he complained of the loans that the State had
been forced to contract, and adducing the example of
the father of Frederick the Great, who had left his son
an army and treasures which enabled him to conquer
Silesia, he declared that he could pardon the Govern-
ment their faults, if they had left treasures sufficient
for a similar purpose.—(Approbation from the left.)
The MINISTER of FOREIGN AFFAIRS should reply fully
to
The
Hon. Deputy at the next sitting.
e Chamber rose in considerable agitation at half-
past five.

FAn.s a
Onr Thursday,e May 28, the MINISTER Of FOREIGN AF-
nded the tribune, and said that, in replying to
the observations of the Hon. M. Thiers, he should en-
adtetaevmoputretd i
personaloanvaoiddisacllussion to
disparage
; for,. a
d
whether one
or to eulogise one self, the effect
must
be
en e
lessenversa r itehse,
value of important matters, such as the general in-
terests of mankind, or the affairs of nations. The Hon.
Gentleman, in his observations on the policy of the Go-
vernment since 1830, had divided it into two heads
which he had, and the other in which he had not, one
takeonf
a part ; the former he had approved of, and the latter
he had criticised. He would observe, with regard to the
former, that in his opinion the Hon. Deputy had not
given it the full praise that it deserved, for a policy
which, on the morrow of a revolution, in the midst of
the greatest agitation, had always remained master of
itself, prudent, just, and moderate, must certainly be
called a great policy. He must beg the Chamber
to excuse him from not following the Hon. Gentleman
through all the questions which he had raised, for
there were many which it was more desirable to
leave for history to record ; for the great re-
sponsibility falling on a 'minister frequently did
not allow him to treat such questions as he
might please. With regard to the right of search,
he would ask whether, if the Cabinet had fallen under
that question, and the Hon. M. Thiers had concluded the
convention of the 29th of May, the Opposition would
not have regarded it as a great piece of success.—
(Murmurs on the left.) The Hon. Gentleman, in allud-
ing to the conduct of the Government towards Spain,
expressed his astonishment, that when the support o
the French Government was demanded, the reply should
have been to tell her to save herself ; that was, however,
what she had been able to accomplish. She had, with-
out intervention, put an end to the civil war, and esta-
blished a Constitutional Government. Spain, doubtless,
continued to experience many difficulties, but be denied
that she was in a declining state ; on the contrary, she
was in the way to return to the good principles of prac-
tical government_ He was surprised to hear the Hon.
Gentleman make use of the names of parties connected
with Spanish affairs, in a tone of bitterness which could
not be made use of when speaking of their own affairs.
(Approbation.) The Hon. Minister here passed an eu-
logium on General Narva-z, who, he observed, had con-
ferred great benefits on Spain. That officer might have
committed great faults, might have yielded to the brutal
traditions of his country, but when prudent voices
warned him that he was acting wrong, he at once gave
way, and remained strictly within the bounds of consti-
tationa larder. No person ought, therefore, to accuse
General Narvaez of having compromised the monarchy
of his country. As to Queen Christina, who could tell
by what views her mother's heart had been moved in
seeking a husband for her daughter ? She had too
much good sense, and too much political experience, not
to sacrifice any personal feelings of her own to the wel-
fare of her country. Spain was at present in the hands
of men who had given proofs of their devotedness to her
interests. What France owed them, and what she de-
sired to afford them, was her moral support. He should
not then pause to answer the observations of M. Thiers
relative to Syria, for the question would one of those
days be brought forward, and discussed at full length.
He must, however, declare that M. Thiers was quite in
error when he asserted that France had asked for a little
humanity for the Christians of that country, and could
not obtain it. Humanity had nothing to do with the
matter ; it was altogether a question of organization in
the interior of the Lebanon, on which England and
France held different opinions. He was convinced that
the latter was right, and should be able to prove it when
the matter was discussed, but at present he could not
allow the question to be mis-stated—to be represented
as one of humanity. With respect to Greece, he should
be just as brief in his remarks, as he had not long since
declared that the whole cause of the difference between
France and England, relative to that country, was that
they had formed different opinions respecting the cha-
racter of the Ministry now in power. A difference of
opinion might easily exist between the two Govern-
ments on such a point without leading to any gruve re-
sults, and this was what had taken pace in the present
instance. As to the question of the United States, he
certainly did not expect to find it again alluded to in the
tribune. Every word that he had ever uttered relative
to the United States—every act that he had sanctioned,
might be strictly examinvd, and nothing could be found
that did not testify to his great consideration and inte-
rest for that country, He had maintained the inde-
pendence of the policy of France, as he had thought it
fitting for her interest, in a secondary matter ; and in a
question of a graver cast, he had been the first to pro •
claim a policy which no person in that Chamber could
gainsay—a strict and real neutrality, surrounded by
every kind of guarantee. Such were the few words
which he had deemed it necessary to utter on the foreign
policy of the Government. He should now proceed to
discuss that of the home administration, and as a preli-
minary step should observe, that on the accusation that
the present Ministry wished for peace at any price, he
must declare that they did certainly aim at preserving
peace, as the only efficient means of consolidating the
power and greatness of the country. But there were
two modes of preserving peace ; one was to be uneasy,
to fear the possibility of war, to continually demand if
it could be preserved—in fact, to show that war was
considered probable. This conduct in its turn produced
doubt amongst the other powers, and at last the result
would be that war would burst out. But there was
another mode of preserving peace, which was to do so
with confidence, with the conviction that it was to be
observed, and that it would issue victoriously from all
trials to which it might be subjected. After a lapse of
time every one would believe in its continuance, and the
favourable opinion thus felt would exercise a most be-
neficial effect on the country. It was in this way that
the present Government preserved peace. Let any
one go from that Chamber, and, proceeding through
France, listen to what was said, and regard what was
done, and then declare if France had not gained strength
immeasurably within the last five years.—(Dissent from
the left.) " You," said the Hon. Minister, turning to
the Opposition benches, " you and your friends are the
only persons who do not say so. All others declare the
contrary to you ; and this is the only way that we prove
in what manner we understand and practise the policy of
peace."—(" Hear, hear," from the centre.) 'With regard
to the domestic policy of the Government, the first re-
proach made against it by the Hon. Gentleman was, that
it was not a parliamentary government. It had acquired
a majority. It was admitted that it had passed through
many difficult trials, which it had got over with much
success, and yet it was not a parliamentary government
—it was a party, and governed as a part;'. If by this it
was meant to say that the majority bad acquired a firm-
ness, an organisation, and a unity which was fitting to it,
the Government congratulated itself on it.—(Hear, hear.)
The Conservative party, in fact, for the last
five years, must be regarded as the principal
constitutional force of the country.—(Hear, hear.) A
constitutional Government required a majority possess-
ing those principles, and faithfully following under the
same standard. Great efforts and great sacrifices had
been made to attain that end.—(Laughter on the left.)
As Hon. Members did not appear to understand the
sacrifices he alluded to, he would explain that they had
sacrificed the dearest friendships, and the warmest allies,
it
lea
dm
pa
ri no tadui
cue tdh unity
on
nof the
the
sideaCthonesecorvpaptoivsietiopnartwyh.
what
tThhaidi
been called a fusion. He considered they were very far
from forming a party fit to govern, for they were want-
ing in the ideas, the sentiments, the habits, which con-
stitute such a party. They had, however, started in
that read, and he much preferred seeing it so, to wit-
nessing the disunion, the impuissance, and the inco-
herence which formerly reigned in the ranks of the
opposition.—(Murmurs from the left.) They had done
right to constitute themselves into a great party, and
to take the Hon. M. Thiers as their leader.—(Loud in-
terruption on the left.) It was not long since that
that Hon. Member designated himself under that
character.—(Loud denials from several voices) He
should leave that question to be settled among them-
selves, hut he must be permitted to believe that the ex-
ample of the Conservative party, and the necessity felt
for strengthening themselves, had led to that result,
which he should consid« r as a mark of progress
which it appeared they had advan2ed as much as
thought. The Government was told that;hbeut
hadin
of repesen-
by means of corruption, and at the
es
y
Tlie OppositionofePs ne
,"sew it certainly
from ther left.)
:xntaeg obtained
had the majority, but that this adr
tative government.—(Cries of
it admiredconfidence th e
institutions them.
But had not these institutions been in force for the last
thae llovved
country, that
anidt
thatltad
a .t
inhis
the era place ?sevWal par-
ties n
the combat that
ties regulated by these institutions ? And when a new
15
years?
as
wasnot egvocirnygoo n
n e between
species of liberty had been admitted—that of public
voting in the Chamber—had the, Government and the
Conservative party suffered from it ? Undoubtedly not.
But it was not alone in the Chamber that the institu-
tions were in force ; throughout the whole length
and breadth of the territory they prevailed —in
councils-general, in municipal councils, in the National
Guard, everywhere they had their influence, and
everywhere the Government had the majority! Well,
then, here were free and powerful institutions used by
every one at full liberty, and yet Opposition went the
• lengths of declaring that they were annihilated by cor-
ruption! What greater insult could be offered to those
institutions and to the country?—(Exclamations from
the left.) If amongst the various Governments that had
succeeded each other in France, any single one, the em-
pire for instance, with the immense powers at its dis-
posal, had endeavoured not to corrupt, but simply to se-
duce ; he could comprehend its being reproached with
exercising an ascendancy over the institutions of the