The Sun.
London, England, 1846-09-07 00:00:00

THE SUFI.,

improved to the uttermost, I would suggest that the sum
previously expended upon it every year should be ap-
plied as a sinking fund to pay off the principal of the
charge held by Government; we might thus look to the
next generation coming into possession of their estates
not only highly improved, but also freed from the heavy
charges which now paralyse the energies and cramp the
best intentions of the present proprietors. Recollect
the conclusion to which the shrewd and talented com-
missioner of the Times arrived :—That it was the want
of capital and enterprise, on the part of the landlords,
that tended th keep Ireland in her present backward
state; and he recommended every facility being given to
the transfer of property, that it might come into other
hands better able to afford an outlay. But how slow this
progress. How difficult the sale of a deeply-mortgaged
property is found to be. Adopt the principle of the plan
I now propose, and yon attain, by a different means, the
same beneficial results. Neither the State nor any other
public board, with all their exertions, can meet with
effect the present crisis. Their work is, of necessity,
almost unprofitable, and their expenditure is large; and
each succeeding year, if persevered in, it will fall with
redoubled weight upon the land, till its burdens become
intolerable. Instead of this, stimulate and encourage the
energies of the resident gentry of Ireland—tell them you
expect there to perform their duty, and to come to the
aid of the millions, now without food, or likely soon to
be so; and hold out the promise that you, the State,
will take away every excuse for backwardness, for that
you will supply the means; and I firmly believe that
every corner of our island will ere long present the
aspect of thousands employed on productive labour, and
that each year will draw closer the bond of union be-
tween the upper and lower classes, and render the latter
less dependent upon the potato as their sole supply
of food."

The suggestions here thrown out by Mr. Rochfort
were to a certain extent adopted by Lord Mountcashell,
who, at a special meeting of the Fermoy board of poor-
law guardians, thus adverted to the condition of the Irish
landed proprietary:—
Landlords (said the Noble Earl) were usually consi-
dered to be a very wealthy,class; but the truth was,
that the landlords of Ireland were a very poor„ body.
Now he wished he had the third report of the Commis-
sioners appointed a few years ago to report on the state
of the poorer classes in Ireland. That was in 1836, and
they estimated the rental of Ireland at 10,000,000/. per
annum. In 1832, however, Mr. Griffiths estimated it at
12,715,0001., and later investigation gave it at some-
thing over 13,000,0001. If no one else did so, he would
move in his place in Parliament for a return of all the
mortgages, judgment debts, and every other incumbrance
that could be ascertained respecting the landed property
of Ireland, and if that had been before them now, by
deducting the amount of it from the gross rental, they
would see what the sum was which the landlords bad at
their disposal. A man might have the name of having
10,000/. a year, but if he was obliged to give up 5,0001.
or 6,0001. out of it, what was the use of that to him?
He had entered into some calculations on that subject,
and had come to the conclusion that about two-thirds
of the rental of Ireland was disposed of in that man-
ner, and consequently did not come into the hands
of the landlords to spend as they might please. He
had, therefore, come to the conclusion that the whole
amount of income possessed by the landlords at
their own disposal was little more than 4.000,0001
per annum. That would perhaps appear very startling.
and certainly, when the incomes of the landed gentry of
other nations were considered, it would be found that
Irish landlords were perhaps the poorest of any other
part of Europe. Then they had establishments to keep
up. They had a number of followers and dependants
who lived on them and by them. Just look at the state
they would place a large portion of the population in by
taking away the means from the landlords. He was at
present speaking of the resident landlords—he was not
talking of the absentees, who drew money out of the
country and did no good in return. What the resident
landlords received with one hand they had to expend
with the other. They were not much given to hoarding,
and if they were se some fifty or sixty years ago, it
would be all the better for themselves and for the coun-
try at present. Let them have the greatest possible in-
clination, they had not the power. He had shown that
they should part with two-thirds of their incomes
These charges should be paid, and if they were not,
they knew well what would be the consequence. They
should very soon get into the hands of the legal gentle-
men, and he need not say how they would deal with
them. There was no use in deceiving the public and
the Government, and it was right that the tenantry
should know the real state of things also. But under
such circumstances all the landlords of Ireland
should put their shoulders to the wheel, and endeavour
to extricate, in the best way they could, themselves
and their tenantry from the difficulties with which
they were surrounded. They could not do so
without great pecuniary assistance from the Government.
The point had been already mooted at the meeting in
Cork by Mr. Roche, that Government ought to lend the
landed proprietors f Ireland money on the security of
their properties. If they did so, they had the power of
making it a first charge by Act of Parliament—(Hear,
hear)—and let them bind the landlords in every pos-
sible way to expend these sumslin giving employment to
the people on their estates. They could give those ad-
vances at the rate they got them themselves, viz., 3 or
312- per cent., from the public creditor. If that was done
be thought it would be the best and the most practical
way to promote the interests of Ireland. He thought
it might be done with safety and with effect. The
exigency of the times required every possible exertion.
The Government should come forward. The landlords,
however, with the means they had, should do all in their
power ; and by the united exertions of landlords and
Government they might be able, not only to benefit the
people of Ireland at the present time, but also for a long
period of time to come.
Mr. D. GERAN (Rushmount) said that though he had
not the privilege of addressing them as a guardian, yet
as he had been requested to attend, and having heard
what Lord Mounteashell addressed to the meeting, he
would offer a few observation upon it. Lord Mount-
cashell had stated that two-thirds of the property of
Ireland was absorbed by mortgages and other incum-
brances. Grant that—but still the one-third remained at
their disposal, and certainly in such awful times as these
they ought to come forward and bear their share of the ge-
neral losses. He knew it was dangerous ground to say,don't
pay rents. He would discountenance any such cry being
raised as much as any man in the country. He hoped
there would be no such thing as combination abroad; but
suppose the landlords did their worst, and drove the
tenantry to the wall, what would they benefit by that ?
Was there to be no consideration for those who lost all
they had by the failure of the potato crop ? This visi-
tation was no fault of the farmers—they could not forsee
or prevent it. If the landlords were so deeply in debt,
it was perhaps owing to the extravagance of'their ances-
tors. They had the fee of the land, and if debts accrued
they ought to be paid off. The Government could not
do all without assistance from the landlords, and their
bearing their due proportion of the losses that had come
on the country.—(Hear.) He did not mean to, speak
disrespectfully of the landlords, or any other class ;
but if those gentlemen kept carriages, and hunters,
and hounds, and indulged in every other luxury,
could they not abridge them on such occasions as
this?—(llear.) On occasions when people could not
procure the means of existence, could they not confine
themselves to the necessities of life, and forgo its luxuries
fora season?

Lord MOUNTCASHELL.—And would no one suffer by
that?

Mr. GERIN considered that the general community
would be served by it, and it was sometimes necessary to
make some sacrifice for the public good.

GOVERNMENT PATRONAGE.

SEPT. s.—Although there is not as yet any official
notification of a vacancy in the department, it is stated
to-day that the office of Poor-law Commissioner, with a
salary of 2,500/ a year, has been conferred on Mr. Mor-
gan John O'Connell, M.P. The Nation, while fully ad-
mitting Mr. O'Connell's qualifications for the situation,
deeply regrets the fact of an O'Connell becoming a " sti-
pendiary of England," as establishing a precedent which
the weak and venal will improve to their own interest.
The Nation farther remarks, and with perfect truth,
that
When Mr. Meagher commented on the place-hunt-
ing of Mr. Edward Clements, he saw where this system
tended, and determined to nip it in the bud. He was
clamoured down by men who knew perfectly well that
Mr. Clements was at that moment begging a place in
London (this is not surmise—we speak from knowledge
of the fact); and we are now to suffer the results of let-
ting the first offender escape. If the people choose to
engage in a sham battle about physical force, and turn
their eyes away from the questions of real importance to
our cause, wo to Ireland. This is one, and the most
pressing of them all."
REPRESENTATION OF CLONMEL.

According to the Freeman's Journal, Mr. O'Connell
has nominated the Hon. Cecil Lawless to the Member-
ship of Clonmel, vice Mr. Pigott, appointed Chief
Baron. Mr. Lawless, it may be recollected, did not join
the repeal movement until after the completion of the
Dungarvan " arrangement," and until it was made mani-
fest that by so doing he was not to forfeit all hopes of
favour at the hands of a Whig Government. Really,
it now looks as if Mr. O'Connell's " seventy repealers "
instead of being the formidable stumbling-block which
they threatened to be, turned out to be the strongest
bulwark of Lord John Russell's Ministry.
MEMBERSHIP OF THE REPEAL ASSOCIA-

" Expecting to hear from you at your earliest con-
venience, I remain, your very obedient servant,
T. M. Ray, Esq." " JOHN KENYON.
" Dear and Rev. Sir,—ln reply to your letter of yes-
terday, I beg to say that the Association has always re-
served to itself the right to prescribe the papers eligible
for subscribers to the repeal fund to order; and that you
are perfectly correct in assumieg that the Association
would stop the issue of any of these at any moment it
was thought necessary for the safety of the Association
to do so. The rules do not authorise us to remit money
in lieu of papers stopped; we can only arrange for the
transmission of another of the journals. We did not
and could not ever accept any subscriptions on terms in-
compatible with the principles upon which the Associa-
tion was from the first based; and with the utmost re-
spect lam bound to inform you, that any person who
refuses to assent to these principles, as they now stand,
cannot be a member of the Association.—l have the
honour to remain, Rev. Sir, your faithful and obedient
servant, , "
T. M.,RAY.

" Rev. J. Kenyon, Chapel House,
Templederry, Nenagh."
" Chapel House, Templederry, Nenagb, Aug 23.
" Dear Sir,—You state, in• reply to my demand for a
remission of money proportioned to the sum we sent to
the repeal funds, to enable us to provide a paper, that
the rules do not authorise you to remit money in lieu
of paper stopped.' This statement I must, with very
great respect, question. I have never seen such rules.
They are not amongst those specimens in the printed
abstract which accompanied your first announcement.
But, on the contrary, it seems to me that for the express
purpose of securing the safety of the Association, an ap-
propriatien of money, to be applied by the subscribers
in each locality, was resolved upon after the state prose-
cution. However, if you can, upon examination, dis-
cover such rules, and are pleased to point them out to
me, I shall urge you no further on that head.
" In that case, however, it will be my duty, in justice
to a large number of the subscribers, to demand back
their subscriptions ; because, as I have already men-
tioned to you, they were given upon an express condi-
tion, which is now being violated. The number of such
subscribers I cannot state exactly at the present moment.
I believe it may be one-half of the entire. But, of
course, if I am obliged to rest upon this part of the case,
I shall discover it exactly by a reference to themselves.
" Moreover, if there be no such rules' as you have
stated, and that, nevertheless, you refuse to remit that
proportion of our contribution to which the rules with
which I have been acquainted appear to entitle us, I
must again, express my fear that I shall feel myself in
the necessity of demanding back the entire subscriptions.
" I cannot pretend to misunderstand the meaning of
your concluding paragraph, but I do not exactly see its
relevancy to the present question. I needed not special
information to know that any person who refuses to
assent to the principles upon which the Association was
from the first based,' cannot be a member of it.—l
remain, dear Sir, your very obedient servant,
"T. M. Ray, E,q. "JOHN KENYON."
"Loyal National Repeal Association,
" Corn Exchange Rooms, Dublin, August 26.
" Dear and Rev. Sir,—ln reply to your letter of the
23d instant, I beg to say that, pending the embarrass-
ments of the state trials, the system of remitting back
money, in lieu of newspapers, and as drawback from the
repeal rent, had to be resorted to. That system was
subsequently given up, and the former arrangement re-
sumed, from and after the 23d of September, 1844. That
arrangement has continued in force up to the present
time. It was published in all the newspapers, and the
public are fully aware of it; we cannot, therefore, return
. .

"if I had known, upon receiving your remittance,
that it was accompanied by any such conditions as you
mention, I could not have accepted the money, as those
conditions would be incompatible with our rules; on the
contrary, I conceived, from the following paragraph in
your letter with the remittance, that you left the fur-
nishing of any paper or not to our entire discretion:—
" 'lf your rules will warrant the return of any por-
tion of this sum for the purpose of providing a news-
paper, we are sufficiently poor to be willing to receive it;
but if not, you are welcome to the whole of it, with our
blessing.'—l have the honour to remain, dear and Rev.
Sir, your faithful and obedient servant,
" T. M. RAY.
"Rev. J. Kenyon, Chapel House, Templederry, Nenagh."
" Chapel House, Templederry, Aug. 27.
"Dear Sir,—With every respect for you individually,
I roust insist that you have shown me no rules' which
should prevent you from remitting the money. It was
not merely to avoid embarrassment—it was precisely to
avoid responsibility that the change was made. Now,
responsibility is the thing which you still affect to
obviate. Why therefore recur to the very system which
entailed it?

" The paragraph of my letter which you quote does
o t warrant your inference that I left the furnishing of
a paper, or not, to your entire discretion,'—on the con-
trary, I stood upon your rules'—but was unaware at
the moment whether the contribution was large enough
to entitle us to the return of any portion of the subscrip-
tion according to those rules. •
" Seeing, however, that it is idle any longer to expect
a compliance with my just demand, feeling that the con-
ditions under which the money WAS tendered are by you
disregarded, I hereby formally, and in the name of all the
subscribers, reclaim the entire.

" Now that your rules, or at least your usages, are
better known to us, we will be enabled to regulate our
contributions so as to avoid in future any perplexity like
this.—l remain, dear Sir, your very obedient servant,
" T. M. Ray, Esq. "JOHN KENYON.
"P. S.—l think it as well to state that if you refuse to
return the money, it is my intention to hand over my
claim to a solicitor." •

" Loyal National Repeal Association,
" Corn Exchange Rooms, Dublin, Aug. 29.

" Rev,. Sir,—ln reference to the demand mentioned in
your favour of 27th instant, I beg respectfully to say
that I am not empowered to give any answer further
than is contained in my last letter.—l have the honour
to remain, Rev. Sir, your faithful and obedient servant,
" T. M. RAY, Secretary.
" Rev. J. Kenyon, Templederry, Nenagh."
In reply to a letter from the Rev. Mr. Meehan to the
Secretary of the Repeal Association, in which the rev.
gentleman protested against the conduct of the coin=
mittee in expelling the Nation from the repeal reading-
rooms,- as also against the proceedings which compelled
William Smith O'Brien to retire from the Association,
the subjoined letter has been forwarded by Mr. Ray :
" Loyal National Repeal Association,
" Corn Exchange Rooms, Dublin, Sept. 2.

" Rev. Sir,—ln reply to your letter this day received,
I beg most respectfully to acquaint you, that as you de-
cline to acquiesce in the principles upon which the Re-
peal Association is based, you do not continue a member
of that body.—l have the honour to remain, Rev. Sir,
most respectfully, your obedient servant.
" T. M. RAY, Secretary."