The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-28 00:00:00

r cannOk . exßect .the support of those who note`adveCataa
protection, tatt4 taking the course on the present question which my
public duty has indict me to take. That connexien which hrw for--
naerly existed is no doubt of Mtf end, and I feel t have no right to
look for support Simi that quai ters-elliear, hear.) Still less have
A nett to enect to carry on the Govattintent, and maintain my
preient ykisitfeii, With the support of those Hoff, Gentlemen who
have suppolfeff the cis flits side of the House.—;Heat, hear.) This
being the case, on any great measure of policy, I admit that
with the assistance of IL' Itteinbell, or One-sixth of the Members
of the House of Commons, I SIM net be able to Carry on the bu-
siness of ilia Gteeemtneut, and that ft le right to suppose that my
vestill tenure of poii-ff it neatly at an end.—(Cheers from the pro-
tectionists.) Let this measure pass into a law—suspend your in-
you further to folicnt me.—
dignation al then, and I will ask
(liear, huir.) I shall then pursue my 01111 course, and it will be
for Bloat Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House to decide
on theirs —(Hear, hear.) I hope they will permit this measure to
be passed at once, let the future be what it may.—(Hear, hear.) I
deeply deplore the loss of confidence of those who have hitherto
been my sityperters.—(Hear, hear.) That affects me infinitely more
than the loss of Ptilitical p .wer.—(Hear, hear.) Your accusations
affect me the less, because I feel that I am honest, and that my
motives are pure. Every man !les within his own bosom the scales
that determine the real weight of rep; each that ought to attach to
his conduct. If I had acted from corrupt or unworthy motives,
then one-tenth of the accusations against me Iceuld have proved
fatal to my existence as a public Man. You may tiOnk that I took
to) great precaution respecting the potato failure in Ireland, and that
ev(nts will prove that I was mistaken In supposing such pi-fteaution
to be necessary. But if so the motive—the saving of a whole p nule
from a dire calamity of a natural famine, will plead my excuse. I
will not say that the measures I have prepoced will save
that country from this calamity. I only speak of the motive.—
( Loud cheers.) I say, with this unfortunate prospect before
rue, even Eta:Mins that t• e precaution I took was superfluous,
I can only say, with Burke, under similar circumstances. He said,
•• In every pressure of affliction, in sickness, In penury, in difficulty,
and in distress, I will call to mind that accusation, and be comforted."
It is no reproach to he attached to me, even if the precaution was
superfluous. But, in June or July next it will be established whe-
ther my precautions were founded In truth, and my motives wor-
thy. But. I speak of this measure not as a temporary, but as a per-
manent measure ; and if I fall, I shall have the satisfaction that I fall
because I prefer the general interests of the people to that of party.
I shall have the satisfaction that, during my official career, my object
has been to mitigate monopoly—to increase the demand for industry.
—to remove restriction from commerce—to equalise the burden of
taxation—and to ameliorate the condition of the labouring' classes.—
(The Hon. Gentleman resumed his seat amid long and loud cheering.)
Mr. S. O'BRIEN rose amidst loud cries of „Divide, divide." lie
said, if they had any objection to hear him, then he had no objection
to move the adjournment of the debate. lie rose in consequence of
some remarks which had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, and to
yin licate the position of that portion of Hon. Members who advo-
cated protection, and with whom he acted. The Right Hon. Baronet
said that if he fell he would fall striving in his official career, to
mitigate monopoly, and improve the condition of the people. He
thought that the Right Hon. Baronet, skilful as he was in addressing
the House on any personal matter, had not in this instance been
peculiarly happy in making out his case. Hale Right Hon. Baronet
did fall, it would not be as he himself expresses It, in striving
to mitigate monopoly, but in consequence of his desertion of those
princi; les which had guided him previous to the last three years. The
principles whicli the Right lion. Baronet now espoused might be
right or wrong, but for the ten years preceding these last three years,
it was the chief object of the Right Hon. Baronet's life to construct
and build up a party, and he (Mr. S. O'Brien) thought the principles
he then advocated were just, sound, and true.—(Hear, hear.) Nobly
and well had the Right lion. Baronet then laboured, and well had
his party supported him.—(Cheers.) The result was that the Noble
Lord the Member for London was removed from these benches to the
Opposition. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) did not know what influences had
been at work to occasion the change in the opinions of the Right Hon.
Baronet —he did not know what influences had led to his fall.—
(Cheers and cries of " Oh, eh.") He did not know what machinery
had been at work, but he would never admit that the Right
Honourable Baronet had yet stated his case fully, and,
therefore, not fairly, when he stated that he fell because he
had laboured to remove restrictions on imports. He thought that
the Right Hon: Baronet, before entering upon the agricultural de-
tails with which he had- favoured the House that evening, should
have furnished them to Hon. Members on that side of tke House
who were locally interested. The Right Hon. Baronet, indeed, said
that he was willing to give those tables of wages and estimates of
the prices of wheat to Hon. Members who might be locally con-
nected with the districts referred to. But what good would that
do ? Long before they could have corrected his errors—long before
they could have observed his fallacies, millions would have
read what the Right Honourable Baronet had slid,
and this measure would be in too advanced a stago
to combat it with any degree of success. Many of the county
Members connected with the several localities t ) which the state-
ments of the Right Hon. Member had reference, knowing that he in-
tended to express his opinion on that question, had pointed out many
contradictions, many errors in those statements, but he did not feel
himselflustified at that late hour to enter into details, with a view
of exhibiting these inaccuracies. When the Right Hon. Baronet
entered into an analysis of the domestic expenses of a Yorkshire la-
bourer, he but introduced a statement the Noble Lord, the Mem-
ber for the West Riding of Yorkshire. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) was most
anxious that the motives by which Hon. Members on that side of the
House were actuated in their opposition to this Bill, should be fairly
stated, and he thought it would be advisable, by lion. Gentlemen
opposite, as they might, if so inclined, have embarrassed the
Government to a greater degree than they had done,—they might,
for instance, have moved an address to the crown, for a dissolution
of Parliament. They might have asked for a vote of want of con-
fidence in the Government.—(Cheers, and "Oh, oh ;")—and they
possibly might have caught some stray votes by the adoption of such
a course.—(lronical cheers, and " Oh, oh.") But they had acted in
a fairer manner, and lie was sure that the Hon. Member for Stock-
port would conclude, at least, that they had adopted the fair, the
open, and the manly eourse. They were determined to bring the
question of protection into the open field, and if they were beaten
upon it, they had the consolation at least of knowing that they had
not incurred disgrace—although left to fight the battle by themselves;
the country would have the satisfaction of knowing the energy, the
support, and the zeal, which had been exhibited by those around
them, and especially by the younger members.—(Cheers and laugh-
ter.) This was no question of modification ; they had supported the
Right Hon. Bart. in his different changes, but this was a question
of total remis ion of duty; and when they considered the
tremendous interest involved, the mighty nature of the consequences
that might follow, they could not give their support to the ill-timed
measure proposed by the Government. The Right Hon. Baronet,
the Secretary of State for the Home Department, had said that the
averages spoke untruly in the present year. He said that the price
had varied from 48s. to 745., and he, therefore, argued against the
sliding scale. Now, when the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, in-
quired of the Right lion. Baronet at the head of the Government
what he was going to do with tithes, the Right Hon. Gentleman im-
mediately rn wk red that the averages would answer for that. They
said the averages were delusive with respect to the foreigner, but
they kept them on with respect to tithes. That was manifestly an
injustice. He was ready to admit that the Right Hon. Baronet had
not exaggerated the state of Ireland ; and to give him the best proof
that he felt so, he might state, that as soon as he (Mr. O'Brien) could
get away from these discussions, he intended to go over, and see
what he could do personally to mitigate the distress of that country.
He did not, however, think that the temporary distress of Ireland
had anything to do with the measure they were discussing, and as a
perpetual measure it must ultimately increase the difficulties of the
poor of Ireland. The Right lion. Barnet had given them no cal-
culations upon which to found this measure. lie had told them
nothing about the price of corn.—(lronical cheers.) Ile understood
that cheer. lion. Gentlemen opposite, whenever the least allusion
was made to money OA that (the Ministerial) side of the House,
assumed that the interests of the protectionists were mercenary.
He could not but remember that the Hon. and smiling, Member for
Durham, when the question of a penny a pound upon cotton wool
was proposed, was most anxious upon that subject. Hon. Gentle-
men could not deny that the landed interest had legislated upon
their convictions, and now, when the Legislature was about to be-
come commercial or manufacturing in its character, he trusted that at
least the supporters of the new system would acknowledge that the
protectionists had battled to the last for what they believed to
be true.

Lord PALMERSTON then rose amidst loud cries of " Divide, di-
vide." He wished briefly to state and explain the views which he
had been induced to take of the two important questions which
formed the subject of their discussion—the one question
commercial and the other constitutional—(Hear, hear.)
He thought that the Government were completely justified in de-
parting from the party engagements into which they had entered on
the formation of the present Parliament. He believed that public
men were public property —(Cheers)—and that that which con-
cerned the public interest should be discussed without consulting the
particular interests of a private class, 'which must be in opposition to
the general good of the country. ' The Govermnent had:introduced
measures this year, not so much at variance with their former opi-
nions as with their former practical course.—(Hear, hear.) A large
section of those who were their former supporters were content with
merely opposing the measure on the ground of its being dangerous
to a certain class in the country; and, because they held that opinion
they were determined to withhold from the Right Hon. Gentleman
that support which they had hitherto accorded to him. That section
of politicians had asserted that the Members of the Government
had betrayed their followers.—(Hear, hear.) Bat he could not
acquiesce in the doctrine which was implied in that charge, for,
while they made it, they also fairly acknowledged that the Govern-
ment had been actuated, in the coarse which they had pursued upon
this occasion, by a sincere conviction that they were doing that
which the public interests required.—(Hear, hear.) And the charge
implied that public men should obey the engagements which they
had contracted with their party rather than de that which was
consistent with the public interests.—(Hear, hear.) He, on the con-
trary, held that, however important political associations were for
the useful working of the British Constitution, and however the man
belonging to a party was bound in his political relations to act in
accordance with his political associates, yet he would say, that
any man who held the relation of Minister of the
Crown, should consider the interests of the country in
preference to those of any political party with which he might be as-
sociated.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that the Government had
placed upon a somewhat too narrow ground the justification which
they had advanced for the change which had taken place in their con-
duct. They had ascribed that change to their experience of the last
three years ; but he thought they might have said that it was rather
to the experience of the last four:years—the debates of the last four
sessions, the Speeches of his Hon. Friend the Member for Stockport
—(Hear, hear)---and of other Gentlemen on his side of the House,
who, session after session, had advocated the measure in eloquent
unanswerable speeches—(Hear, hear)—that their change had been
effected. It was very well for Gentlemen who sat listening to the
debates, and others who came down at the eleventh hour to divide
in the lobby, to record the triumph of their party—it was very
well for such to maintain, session after session, and year after year,
their old opinions ; but the case of the Minister of the Crown was
very different.—(Hear, hear.) The Minister of the Crown had to sit
throughout the whole of the debates—(Hear, hear, and laughter),
and listen to the speeches, and moreover find arguments to answer
the objections brought against the propositions of the Government,
and those arguments must be such as must not disgrace a Minister of
the Crown.—(Hear, hear, and cries of "Question.") The Members
of the Government were obliged to watch the progress of
the public opinion, and concede to the requirements of
the intelligent and just men of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
There were certain climates which possessed a specific cure for certain
diseases.!--(Loud cheers.) . And he would venture to say, that ho
would take any Member, labouring under any chronic disease, or
protection fever, and after they had breathed for a few mouths the
free-trade air of Downing-street, they would be perfectly cured.--
(Loud cheers.) It might be said that the present abortion of this
country with its immense national debt, could not sanction the
removal of protection. He considered that protection was a plausi-
ble word, which meant injury to the many, and benefit to few,—
(No, no, and cheers.) With this difference, however, that the injury
to the many was real, while the benefit to the few was imaginary.
Protection was a baneful influence, which paralized the industry of
the country and prevented the growth of its institutions, and so far
from benefiting the parties that it was intended to benefit, would
leave them in a worse condition'nhan before. He considered that be-
cause the country had to bear the burden of a national debt that
was; no reason why they should have to bear additional
burdens: imposed them by these restrictive laws.--(Cheers.)
He believed that the high tariffs of France and England
were mutual and reciprocal injuries to each country. He
thought that the example of this country Would be more
beneficial than any negotiation into which they had entered.
He held that there was no reason to consider that free-trade in corn
would not be as advantageous to the country as free-trade in any
other commodity ; but by free-trade he did not mean trade free
from all duty—(Cheers from the benches below the gangway)
which they were obliged to have for the purposes of revenues
but such taxation as was levied for the prevention of export or
import—(Hear, hear,) —and not free trade in the abstract. His own
opinion was that corn should not be an exception from this rule.
He had been always for a fixed daty, and might it be permitted him to
say he had not taken up his opinion, when the late Government were
in articulo mortis, for he held them in the years 1830 and 1840, when
there was no prospect of a dissolution. His wish would have been a
low fixed duty of about four or five shillings, which could have been
effected without any great transition or prejudice to the feelings of
any class in the community. But Members in that House
must see what they can have, and not what they would
have.--(Cheering.) His Noble: and Honourable Friends have
abandoned fixed duty in despair. The Anti-Corn law League profess
that nothing will satisfy them but total repeal ; and finding
a fixed duty out of the question, he had no hesitation in
giving his cordial support to the measure of the Government.
The commissioners who had been appointed under the Enclosure
Act received 46 applications for land, and they had a Bill before the
House for the purpose of rescuing 400,000 acres of land from the Ger-
man ocean. Now he would ask when this was the case, what ground
was there for apprehending that this measure would throw land out
of cultivation. He stated that the landowners would be sufferers
from the immense influx of foreign corn, but he would ask, where
was the immense quantity of corn to come from.—(Cries of
" Divide, divide, and adjourn.") Prices would rise abroad when
they went into the foreign market, and there would, therefore, be
no great alteration in the prices in this country. lie denied,
therefore, that there would bo any alteration in the prices.
—(bear, hear.) But if it was admitted that the change
would have the effect of making the price of corn
lower, that was a confession that their rents at present were too
high.—(Cries of " Adjourn, and divide.") The English
aristocracy were a proud aristocracy. They ought to he proud.
If they failed in their appeal to their sense of justice, they
appeal to their pride.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.") This question
would increase the wealth arid prosperity of the country, and it
would do more—it would preserve peace,—(Hear, hear.)
If the democracy was increasing, and making inroads
upon the privileged classes, how should they be kept down
but by showing them, justice? It was upon these grounds,
without trespassing further upon the indulgence of the House, and
because it was calculated to promote the happiness, the prosperity,
of the country, and to preserve the international peace and inde-
pendence of the country.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The House then divided, when there appeared :
For the Second Reading......
Majority for the Second Reading.. •• • • —BB
Lord G. BENTINCK wished to know when her Majesty's
Ministers would go into Committee en the Bill just passed the second
reading. He wished to know as the Coercion (Ireland) Bill would
be likely to occupy several days?
=QUER stated, in reply, that it
The CILINCELLOR 91" thy FAQ