The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-24 00:00:00

he proposed a perfect equality of treatment of the Catholic and
Protestant. What was done for one class should be done for
another, and what was done for one religion should be done for
another. There were various modes of arrieleg at that end.
Some proposed that all eneow merit should be
be taken away for the present purpose ; and that, as so n as the
existing interests fall in, the property of the Protestant Church
ehould be applied to secular education. Ile should greatly re-
gret to see such a measure adopted. He had never been tea le
to understand the advantage of the voluntary system, but he
thought it of very great importance that a large public funti
should be made for the maintenance of ministers of religion,
with permission for them to teassli the people in the form in
Which they had access to the instruction in the sacred truth of
Christianity. An arrangement of that kind should be come to,
but he should be deeply grieved that all endowments should be
taken away for the purposes of secular education. The
Present system combined all the faults and d'sadvant ••ges
of the voluntary system. 'I hey had a voluntary sys-
tem as regarded the people, with all the ievidieusness of
w State Church. He, for one, should not be prepared to say
that all the property of the Church should be applied to those
bses of religion. He thought that the Catholic Church should
be established in Ireland as the Protestant Church was in
England, and the Presbyterian Church in Scoland. There
*as in favour of that principle the opinion of a man whom he
reverenced more than any man now living—he meant the late
Dr. Arnold. He reverenced him more than any man now in
existence, and he believed that this was his view as to what
'lhoald be done in this case. He had no hesitation in saying
that it was deeply to be regretted that such a principle was not
how in existence. It was a great pity that the Protestant
Church had been made the Established Church in Ire-
land—it was as fatal a mistake as was ever commit.
ted• Another proposal, made by a Noble Lord
whom be then saw opposite, was that a toll should he levied on
landed property in Ireland for the payment of the Catholic
Clergy. He thought that preposition a perfectly just and reason-
able one. Another Noble Earl, who was formerly one of her
olajesty's household, asked if it was true that there were 150
parishes in Ireland in which the rent charge amounted to no
less than 58,000/., and in which there was not a single Pro-
' elegant 4. The answer he received confirmed the accuracy of
'1 supposition or informant. He (Earl Grey) believed that
au the other side it was not shown that the statement was sub-
ttantisally erroneous. He had no hesitation in saying that this
Was a4B state of things which could not endure. As the existing
Interests fell in, a portion of the property of the Protestant
Established Church ought to he diverted to the use alit payment
Ministers of religion of such a kinclthat the Catholics would
4tillent to receive instruction from them. He could perceive
that an answer to this would be given—the objection would be
That the Catholics would accept no assistance. It would be
gated that the time hai gone past ; that a few years ago the
Catholics wou'd have accepted their bounty, but that they
tf quid no longer receive it. As to that belief, he knew that
the assistance were given in a proper manner, and with due
precaution, w .old be accepted. They could no longer obtain
be advantage they might have obtained. They could not
attempt to establish, directly or indirectly, the right of inter-
' Terence with or control over the Cathulics. Formerly the
Wholies would have granted such a power, hut now the op-
, kttunity was lost, and it would be the height of madness to
mpt it. He believed that they would not accept of any
&ranee as a direct payment to any individual clergyman,
"'it they would take assistance if given to a fund to be applied
et their own discretion. We owed this state of things to the
bete
,pd error made by Sir Robert Peel in 1825. Ile still
ii,.""eved that the Catholics would take a grant, if it was given
sum to be administered by some Catholic authority, to be
lOplied by hint to the building of chapels a id houses, or in
toCatholics
ways as might seem necessary. He had always said that
ICatholics were ready to take assistance if large arid gene-
,o g r ants were made for them, excluding stipends. He had
b wever, gone further into details than he inten !ed, and it was
toothe time for trifling discus-ion. All he would say was
there should be an equality of favour sh own to both re
nis•—(Hear, hear.) They ought not only to endow the
teetholics, but thy
social,ught to go further, they ought to give
zeta the same position as the Protestant Clergy. Tney
Gust allow then their proper rank, and must reverence th
::,giholie hierarchy even more than the Catholic Bequests Bill,
r° eh was passed last year or the year before. A a body the
''gholic clergy were distinguished for their piety, and their
eitt latest feeling for the welfare of their flocks, and therefore
guy that
be allowed some rank. Ile could go so far as to
0,11 that he wished to see Catholic prelates taking their place•
ikthe bench in that House._( Hear, herr.) He wished, con-
ed ,ring the state of Ireland, that this House could have tie
tuldee and assistance of those who knew the Catholic popu-
e.,l°°, and could explain to the House their feelings and their
Cts• He wished that the House had the advice of those who
%eased the means of conciliating the Catholic people, and
en did not think that any danger would result from their intro.
ee-eti°ll' at least it must be a timid person who could sup-.
;1' that anything dangerous would be the consequence. He
ee,l”ed that the House was not to easily led array that four
tie tiolie prelates could obtain any undue authority. He
stiete'eed that the course of policy that they were now recom-
keilding to Ireland was opposed to their feelings. He we,-
eio-Peeed to find that his motion met with little support in that
He was prepared to see the address he was about te
e,e.r_e thrown out by a great and overwhelming majority, lon
I;7', years would not elapse before its essential features would
come the law of the country. As long. as he had been in
life, he had ample reasons for saying that he had seen
phi" "3' case resting on a solid foundation of truth and justice
Bere in the end to get on ; justice and reason were sure to
ep all- He remembered nothing more discouraging in its
htearance than the Bill for Catholic Emancipation, in the
At 411827, but that measure had become the law of the land.
!liege° Mine time f'ee trade seemed altogether impossible, and
the Who advocated the opinion which he wished to apply to
etaetnincrcial regulations of the country—s principle which
Wee'eet Philosophers had advocated—were regarded as persons
re it it was not worth while to answer; and when they
eet-we the slightest allusion to any alteration in corn, they could
hill bluster more votes than from a dozen to twenty.
eteen years had since elapsed ; he had lived to see
itt equestien, year by year advancing, till now it was at
(Fulinal tine ; and if it was still doomed to be refused—
lifrierashear)—it was only for a short period, for they were in
,wiof the, goal. In the same way it was with every measure
ng regard to any alteration in the policy we pursue towards
Lad
withregard to her church, but it might now he seen
the time was not very far distant when that church would
;_reognised. That time was advancing rapidly; he could see
kltitehe
tone of the debates last year; and in the speech of the
se„,,dt; Duke opposite, in h:s arguments in favour of the May
Vd° grant, he could see the evidence of the progress of
li,tl Measure. In the minds of those who advocated justice to
Vtaad in this matter no change of opinions had occurred,
Ade. e heard of frequent and substantial changes on the other
Of He saw men, who had come to Parliament with opinions
.414 different nature, were inclined to adopt this now; but
ke 511, he knew its progress in private conversation. They
We*, and could not fad to hear in private conversation,
fo the state of the Irish Church was unanimously admitted
et4.4°, such as ought never to exist in a civilised country. It
411.eePly to be regretted that a difference was ever made, and
Astnient of that difference was earnest!y to be desired.
INs t ski rue that be heard such language followed up by the itZsiation that reform, however desirable, was rendered ins-
bleettle by the prejudices of England and Scotland ;
l. were so strong that they would not be able to
Measure of that description. That was a question very
lepuritratit to consider, but language of this sort ought not to
el .4°Fted, nor should such principles be acted upon. A man
NI 6 honesty of thinking would sate that it was right that
Question should be proposed, as it was only by being pro-
gee:dand discussed that they could hope for success. If lan-
tt tredf that sort were to be used, it would be unjust to address
tpd's countrymen. They had, it was true, strong prejudices,
3th" was very well aware very deep-rooted prejudices; but
oth a same time he knew that the language of reason and
Iteolte Was never addressed to them in vain, and if they went
to 4 in this matter it weuld be the fault of those who hail
odds them right. If those who took y art in public affairs,
151,0 T Whose advice and euidarice the nation was accustomed
t) and who, standing in this high and responsible situa-
lNe',"m want of discernment of what was required, or from
N' of courage to state their opinions from fear of incurring a
\efc'eal opposition by stemming the current of public opinion
hitsseeh now, from such opinions, condescend to give up the
thee uri and privileges of Englishmea, it might be long before
lkeitere disturbed, but it might be too late for the safety of•
Sts ter°Pire to do justice to Ireland, when they thought they
lel tete neeessity. He would fain hope for better things ; that
1_,F49`14 debate they would take a lesson from the years
qise, And 1816 that they would not be again guilty of this
Iteptnlousness, and of that want of foresight of earning
14.eles which the result has shown might justly be imputed
theeit;!l for their conduct in 1829, and they would not, for the
imes place themselves in that most painful situation in
he .1 they were compelled to sacrifice for a great emergency
of 11`14ivierest interests of the country, or incur the just reproach
tongSa I deceived their followers, and of having been the per-
Nist Carry the measure which formerly they had ever been
etet,le resisting. He hoped he should not again see any such
Itke 01 things; he trusted that now it was time to consider the
eaweinf Ireland that they would acknowledge the ne:•assity of
tereing remedies more effectual to quell the e'fils which were
Zerose4ll,leted upon them. The address 'which he would lay
alt e. them did not call upon them express any opinion ;he
% Would not be right, as he did not stand in the position of
to'nt authority to give him any right to ask them
me
ohs to so M'Alle/ItOUS a decision. At the same
lfelt himself bound fully and fairly to express to them
4,nd renaltered opinions—opinions which he had en.
11tele. w from the first moment he had entered that House.
4.4,-„,134 his address did not for an expression of opinion
v4t.ttifY particular queseon, if !there were other remedies,
ealculated to meet the evils laid before the House, let
most te proposed and discussed; he was confident he would be
ill et, IPil to hear them, and no effort of his should be want •
54 give the mast patient, full, and fair consideration. They
N'i
ip- tailed upon to express, by an address to her Majesty,
leeeeenviction that Ireland could not be left in the state in
lite,:_tt ems. Something must be done, and if tile remedies he
l,tered were wrong, others might be adopted better calcu-
gtt 1 secure the interest of the empire. He trusted
nips great crisis was at an end—he believed that
k‘e.thelcas one way, and, in his opinion, only
ithoed appeasing and allaying the discontent of the Irish
tee!ind of gradually restoring order and tranquillity to
IZlet7tganised portion of the empire. There was one way,
ki kilo/ °we way, and that was not to grant repeal, and not
ettlitleelr.the advice of the Right Rev. Prelate. The plan was
etet; tlt Was to legislate for the Irish as an Irish Paella-
eitee ° act fairl and consistently, and they could do no
Ite If they did not, they would see nothing but the
• rkbie . '
Ottle„ Continuance of misery and destitution. Whenever the
pegsl,e.,l failure of a crop occurred, it would cause famine
k‘teeet4'enee, only to be awarded by the interference of Par-
t/14N They would see outrages but imperfectly prevented
and troublesome methods, until at last would come
e:eliiiiightful catastrophe, fatal alike to the dominion of the
161 uqd gad the safety of the empire. This was what they had to
Vlesele fie (Lord Grey) asked their Lordships to pledge
Otter to do what in them lay to avert this fearful result,
leavePte g to the address to her Majesty, which he would now
tehtliesel to read to them. (The Noble Earl concluded by
etteeigethe address to her Majesty, which is contained in an-
es.'° tae )
do
t)e question being put,
,4 tO st4,Le of WELLINGTON rose. It was not his inten-
;°dow the Noble Earl through his very aisle speech.
eette°' it was foueded on fact, unfortunately, and that part
'l4kgeref°i'e that he was unable to answer. But really he did not
lt e ree in that other part to which the Neble Earl referred.
llt Ant th "
Jiw e act of her Majesty's Government in respect to
4,, %el `nen of a Commission to inquire into the relations
14Pted ;118-adlords and tenants, and the measure which had been
titiethoteee,cinsequence of the nomination of that Committee.
Otte fair that the Noble Earl would admit that it was not
telq:lthe, ,!.! say that Isis Right Hon. Friend, when he nomi-
ee teet;'°lnusission, admitted either the juitice err propriety
kereje,
_TR tinder consideration at the thee which related to
let:ele ;uote tenure. But he would now confine himself to the
04,Preeee_ed for by the Noble Earl. Similar add' asses had
to eO. or tie:ted frequently both in the last and at the commence-
t,ollZtsper`zaldesession. Parliament always expressed itself ready
with her Majesty's Government in every measure
16,11 tend to the presperity of Ireland. It was impossible
Ited, concurs in the address moved by the Noble
fcimtttee ee-ensidering the speech he made, more particularly
toed ore'etr of it, namely, his admission that his object was
qol,j_e eeti`inee address a system of measures which must end
'114,1 nction of the Church of England in Ireland, the
sho had
e.es ifsa-es i,. spoken throughout as if this were an open
4th,, it ' Parliament had done nothing on the subject
t "e a •
rk, he question on which measures could be adopted ,
Nen, I'l:tallest difficulty, or without any breach of former `1 or compacts. If ever there was a point which