The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-26 00:00:00

1846.

26,

olvantage of the great body of the people —( Hear. hear.)
'he people of Irelai.d abroad were as well disposed
,ed as industrious as the English or Scotch; why,
hen, were they in their own country the
gild beasts they had b'een represented to be
.hooting and murdering each other? It was the bad state of
he law, and the way in which the Legislature had acted to-
-aids them. He had a return in his hand, from which it ap-
ared that the four counties in which the greatest number of
•iuil hotels prevailed, was Kerry, Mayo, Clare, and Co-k,
nile in all thy- other counties a large proportion of the
wire of the same character. The Hon. Gentleman
,re react several extracts froirn the return in question, show-
,g that in those counties where the greatest number of mud
ileins prevailed, and where the people were most crowded to-
..her, the atnoust of crime and outrage was the greatest.
retu. ns would (the Hon. Member continued) suffi-
- nt y show that pover:y 'a as at the loot of a great deal of
e evil mnpl.tne.i of. Bur poverty was not the only cause
there was also the question of tenant-right. Load Devon's
:o:nolission showed that the eviction of tenants was a fruitful
urce of much of the (itemize axcl crime that abounded.
'overly and bail laws were at the bottom of Irish gri. eances,
od, unle.3 they grappled with these: no coercion law would
e found ~.vailoig to counteract crime and to protect property.
et .hem give the lr:sh people confidence in the law, and they
could soon be found as good subJ..cts as were the people of
ith. r England or Scotland. On these grounds he should vote
gainst the second rea-ing of the Bill.

Vt,count NEWPORT-would vote against the Bill, not from
desire of continuing opposition to her Majesty's Government,
ut because he thought it a most dangerous and irritating mea-
ore. lie found all the Irish Members on the opposite side of
he House against the Bill, and that they were divided in
,pinions on this ide of the House. This was some evidence
hat the Bill wog one which should not be agreed to by the
House. if this measure were of so vital importance, as it was
:roteßsed to be, it should have been brought forward and pro-
-ceded with before any other measure. If they really thoughT
hat the lives of the people of Ireland stood in need of protec-
ton they would not have treated the measure as one of an or-

iznary nature. The Bill was a most uncongitutienal one, he
would, therefore, oppose it.
Lord CLAUOI,- HAMILTON was surprised to see the

Noble Lord the Member for Lynn prompt the last Noble
speaker.—(No, no.) If the Noble Lord denied it, he would
hen withdraw his observations, It was quite impossible for
aim as an Irish Member to give his vote ir, favour of the Bill.
le felt, however, that it was his tainful duty to do so. He
iad listened to all the arguments which had been brought for-
xard on the present occasion, but he had heard nothing that had
he effect of al- ering his opinims upon the subject of the necessity
Or these stringent measures. On a fsrmer occasion, there was
io disposition in the House similar to that which influenced it
er the present oce4sion, and induced it to slur over, as it had
eine, the accoun's of the disturbed state of Ireland. He
bought tit,. circumstance was only attributable to the great
'eight to which party feeling was allowed to operate upon the
winds of Hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the House. It was
more than three years since great complaints were made to the
Government for keeping a great number of troops in Ireland ;
he constitutional susceptibility of some Hon. Members ap-
eared to have changed considerably since that period, for they
.a .l asked the Government why, inst., ad of pressing their mea-
mre, the) did not increase their military force in that country.
'le (Lord Hamilton) contended that the proposed measure
would be less opp-essive than the keeping up of large bodies of
r.ops, who would be paraded about the country. He denied
I,e statement which had been made by the Hon. Member for
Montrose (Mr. Hume), that the policy- of the Government
tad been a one-sided policy, favourable to Protestants. He
,d,ci the Hon. Member to put his finger upon a single Act.
,eich, during the last five years, had been passed by the
riovernment having that tendency. He could refer to a num-
wr of Bills, the Maynonth Bill, the Bequests Acts and

thers which were of the very reverse naiure. It was a
very ordinary argument that all the evils of Ireland owed
heir origin to the legislation of that House. If that argu-
ment were good, he would ask why did not all Ireland present
he same symptoms, inasmuch as every part of it was governed
ay the same laws? Every one, however, knew that such was
tot the ca.e. A great stress was also laid upon the tenant
ight in 'lister, without which, it was said by the Hon.
tilrmhers for Armagh and Cork that that province would be
..xactly in the same situation as the other parts of Ireland
where outrages existed. He denied this, and contended that
he arrangement of what was called the tenant right was not
t compact be wee's the landlord and tenant. The only ground
.n which it rested was the expectation on the part of the in-
eiming tenant that in case he should leave.the land he would
le repaid the amount which he had paid to his predecessor.
This, however, could not exit in Tipperary, inasmuch as there
%as no money paid by the tenant g ing into possession of hi'
,tolling. nor did he think that the moral state of feeling which
prevailed there would tolerate the existence of such a usage.
Every attempt had been made to improve the moral and social
•ondition of the people, hut it was al to no purpose. Legis-
ation had been tried in vain, and he thought that nothing re-
nained but coercion. The Noble Lord concluded by defending
he landlords of Ireland, whom he considered a very ill .used set
f men ; who if they were permitted to carry out their benevo-
lent intentions towards the people of Ireland, would, in a short
tine, cause a far different state of things to exist in that un-
happy country.
Mr. C. BULLER thought this was a subject on which they
eight to have been spared the declamation of the Noble Lord
.who had just sat down, and it scented to him that if they con-
rented themselves, like the Noble Lord, with merely looking to
he moral depravity of the people, without endeavouring to
apply a remedy to the grievances under which they laboured,
heir condition would never be much. improved. A few nights
igo he made a few observations in reply to the Hon. Member
ter Rath, and he then took an opportun ty of saying that he
tad, in the year 1833, when he was then but a young Member
,f that House, opposed the Coercion Bill of Lord Grey. On
the part of the question he went entirely with his Hon. and
Learned Friend in deprecating the personality which Lad cha-
racterised the present debate. He thought it odious that these
personalties should have been made. And more odious that
,uch a determination should have prevailed to affix them to any
'testate individual.—(Hear, hear.) He was of opinion, taking
•verything into account, tkat the circumstances which had oc-
curred had arrested the atten ion of the Home to the condition

of Ireland, and would be productive of a better state of feel-
ing and a new state of legislation towards that country. lie
..ould now state his objection to the Bill. He thought that, as
measure of coercion, it was exceedingly paltry, and very
II adapted for the state of things which prevailed in Ireland.
If the country was in a state of insurrection, he could see the
,iolicy of confining men in their hou.es from sunset to sunrise,
hut it was admitted on all sides that the country was not in
such a condition. One thing was most remarkable, namely,
hat during the last fifteen years the generality of crimes of a
tumultuous nature had decreased, except in the case of rob-
beries of arms, hr which they might thank their own Arms
idl, which appeared to him to be a most efficient means
if giving to the lawless the knowledge of houses where arms
were placed. But crimes of assaults en individuals had greatl
increased in proportion as the former class of crimes had di-
•ninished How were they by an Act to shut up the people
from sunset to sunrise to prevent noonday murders? It was
in old and a stale question ; but still it had never bean an-
.wered —((sear, hear.) He believed that the clauses of the
let were by no means calculated to repress those outrages.
Under the Government of Lord Normanby —at least at its com-
neneement— crime was infinitely greater than it was at pre-
ent. Lord Normanby commenced by endeavouring to obtain
ne confidence of the people, and he obtained the confidence of
heir acknowleged leaders; and what was the result? Crane
ad, at the commencement of Lord Fortescue's Government,
2:ractually and steadily decreased, until it.was not one-half of
what it was when Lord Norrnanby commenced. Lord Nor-
manby, however, did not attribute that diminution to the effect

of his policy. He attributed it to the effect of a Coercion
Bill which was in preparation, and which, he ad-
mitted never came into operation, and he, therefore, afterwards
was in favour of coercive measures. If it had, however, beer.
the terror of the Coercion Bill which operated on the people,
he terror would be greater immediately after the passing of
he Bill and before it came into operation. Crime would have
diminished at first, but when the people became freed from
those terrors crime would break out again. That was, how-
ver, shown not to be the case; for immediately afterthe pass-
•ng of the Act !gime at once increased to a frightful extent,
sod continued increasing with great rapidity for some time
after. It did not seem to him that, even when they bad ad-
vance4 so far into the nature of the remedies which should be
spplied to Ireland, that they had got to the bottom of the
problem. They h.id yet to devise some means of giving a per-
manent remedy to that country. They had had repeated in-
quiries in that House, and repeated reports of Commissions,
Ind they all agreed that crime and outrage in Ireland arose
from agrarian causes, and to the utter dependance of the Irish
peasant on the cult ivation of land, and his adherence to that cul-
tivated land which he had tilled in the midst of the wilderness
around him, and the destitution which necessarily resulted from
his ejection from it. He would quote from an authority which he
feared might be disagreeable to many around him, but which
certainly was a good one on this subject. He alluded to Mr.
Foster, the Tinges commissioner, and he found, in one of his
first letters, that in the county of Cavan, disturbances arose
(torn me particular cases of ejection, of which• he gave the
circumstances. - He also traced these risings to the same cause
in other places; and, on the contrary, gave instances of the
perfect • security with which those who acted the
nart of good landlords eight traverse the country.
All i,the best authorities In Ireland, all the best informed
travellers, and indeed every one who knew anything of Ireland,
agreed that the outrages of the poor arose from the outrages
on the poor. He admitted that the sympathy of the people
with tin so who committed agrarian outrages was a most hor-
ribly perverted feeling, but it was their duty to attempt to
remedy it, and not to spend their time in declamation, but to
go at once to the root of the evil, and to remove it. He could
not see how they could ever put an end to these outrages with-
out providing for the people the security which the people of every
oilier Christian country in the world enjoyed. Lee
teem look at
the condition of the peasantry in every other country in the
world, and they would find that there was no other country in
the world in which the peasantry could be ejected at the caprice
of the rich man. In foreign countries the peasants security
was partly in the proprietorship of the soil. Even the serf of
Russia could not be left to starve by his master, and in England
the existence of the pleasant was secured by the poor-law. Yet
in this kingdom Mr. Gerrard had turned out 800 men
became he thought he should make a few hundreds
more by the substitution of bullocks instead of men.
But the ease was different with respect to Ireland. Since the
time when the old Norman Barons used to starve their serfs
when it served their purpose, there was uo country in which
the peasantry had been worse treated than in Ireland.—( Hear,
hear.) They could not get rid of the population of Ireland, or
cut up the estates of the landed proprietors among them, and
the only alternative left them was to carry out the principle of
the English poor.law.—( Hear, hear.) No other remedy would
meet the evil. He knew there would be great difficulty in ex-
tending the English poor-law to Ireland, as the danger would
he the confiscation of all property to support the people ; they
should, therefore, in passing such a law, take care to accompany
it with efficient measures for employing the people. He knew
no better way of doing so than by setting the people to culti-
vate the waste lands, on something' retch a plan as the Dercn
Commission. The principle should be to cultivate the improv.
able land in the way it had been done with the Bedford Level.
—( Hear, hear.) Even if it came to a last resort—if Paris.
ment were applied to, it would not he, he
A y
verse to granting a sum of money in thewhich it had
been done with the West India planters. Grantsa' of money
might be made to enable the landed proprietors to improve
theit estates, and then to employ the people. They should
also do all they could to encourage the flow of English cap' al
into Ireland. But with all remedial measures of this kind.i
there must, be an efficient poor-law. But there must be some-
thing different from material things employed to pacify Ire-
land. The legislation promised towards Ireland had hitherto
been most unsatisfactery. They had suffered from a church in
which the people did not believe, and been subjected to irrespon-
sible authorities, which had been the continual cause of op-
pression. These must be remedied, as well as measures taken
for finding food and employment forthe people. He would before
sitting down advert to the policy of her Majesty's Government
towards Ireland. No one could accuse him of opposing in any
very uncompromising manner the Government ; still ho re-
gretted to say that their measures in relation to Ireland, how-
ever Rood in themselves, had lost halt their value in the manner
in which they had been introduced. He regretted also that the
good measures of the Government should be marred by this
Coercion Bill, and that after the introduction of that great
measure, which the Right Hon. Baronet had carried at great
personal sacrifice. an.i in which he bad encountered great (woe
sition, he (Mr. Buller) should be compelled to oppose the Go-
-1 ves4ment. now. Still the peace and welfare of Ire! and were too
great matters to be sacrificed to keep in any Minister, however
t:oy ?aid ?acted iAteNiti a to; 20F..1.3

questions.—( Hear, hear.) On these grounds be must oppose
the second reading, of the Bill.
CORN AND CUSTOMS BILLS—MESSAGE FROM

THE LORDS.

Messengers from the House of Lords brought up these two
Bills, along with several others, which they declared their
Lordships had passed without amendment.
The SPEAKER then read from the chair that the Corn
and Customs Bills had been passed by the House of Lords,
without amendment.—(The announcement was received with
tremendous cheering. )
Mr. BANKES said the Parliament had been assembled for
five or six m.,n he, 3,1 this matter, which had been mentioned
in her Majesty's speech as of pressing importance, had been
delayed till the pres'-nt time—( Hear, hear'—such had
been the progress of the Bill. With respect to those who
voted f r the first reading, he mtt,t say that that vragno ex•

press saricien of the Bill. as the usual course w e, wilt a Bib
in that stage of its proceeding and coming 'row) the House of
Lords. to allow it as a matter of course. This, therefore was
the first decided vote en the principle nf the Bill in that House,
though five months after is introduction.—(Cries of
" Hear, hear.") He believed the Mieistry had no
intention of carrying the Bill, even though they carried the
second reading. It was well known that even now the Go-
vernment was perishing, by aelf.combustion. and that three
days would skittles% their dissolution.—( Hear, hear, and pro.
tection cheers.) The Government well knew, even if they
could carry the Fecon dreading of the Bill, that they would live
buttwoorotf carrying the
and therefore they can have no intention
whatever
the measure. Such was the position of
the Bill and of the Government. He could not conceive how
ntohhfeewti
theybe
exgc
ii tnehnmai
dne
znn to,
of
ptationwed
session,
ee
rds detainingheer
a Government was justified in putting the country in a state of
carryingamse of Parliament, seeing
ttold
di tbi3n. into
e effect.
Government,the
seas r
ythe
or Et
hxee costa
ei rty n
e fGovernment,lreland,
he deridedt at the
to
mseuarsuproer t
thwae'mnec-
had they shownw disposition to push the Bill forward,itot tv, and
ould
have still had his cordial support. They had not,t,
proved themselves sincere; and he could no longer support.
them. Jr. a conversation with an eminent lawyer in Ireland
i
(Mr. Brewster) which he had at the beginning
of the year, he then expressed himself, that though
he had much to complain of the Executive Govern..
ment, he would, if they were sincere, support the Coercion
Bill. At a subsequent meeting of those who acted with the
Noble Lord (Lord George Bentinek) it was also agreed on
that, if the Government really showed a disposition to push
the Bill forward and thought it necessary, they would support
it. That decision was intimated to the House at the time.
But they thought in consequence of the delay in bringing
the measure forward, that it was intended only as a political
tool between two contending parties. ; and very naturally
doubted the sincerity of the Government in speaking of the im-
minent necessity, or, as the Right Hon. Baronet had called it,
"dire necessity." It had been said the present measure
was to be tried by evidence. He quite agreed in that opinion,
and he would call his first witnesses from the Treasury bench,
whose evidence against the Bill was their delay in bringing it
forward. The second witnesses which he would call were the
Irish Members. and their evidence was entirely against the
measure. With such witnesses and with such evidence he
and the party with whom he acted could not but consider it
their duty to oppose the Bill. He thought the Government
were mistaken in their opinions of the state and remedies for
Ireland. Was it for him, and the parties with whom he acted,
to confer these unconstitutional powers on a Ministry just on
the eve of dissolution, and in whom they had no confidence?—
(Cheers.) It had been said, why did we not at first propose
a vote of censure, end then dispose of the Bill before the
House? And. in his opinion the Hon. Member ear Birming-
ham (Mr. Seooner) coincided He would ask that Hon.
Member whether he would think it advisable for him (Mr.
Bankes) to propose in that House, upon the present occasion,
a vote of csnsura on the Government, or join in an address to
her Majesty, praying her to remove her present advisers, and
immediately afterwards place in the hands of those Fame persons
,hese unconstitutional powers—powers which should not be
placed in the hands of any person, except in those in
whom they had unlimited confidence? Or, would the Hon.
Member prefer the adoption of a course by which a vote of
censure would be proposed at a subsequent stage of the mea-
sure ? He did not think that would at all alter their situation.
He objected to placing, by any means, or in any way, such
power in the hands of persons in whom he had no
confidence.—( Loud cheers.) With reference to the measure
'tself he would est the Noble Lnrd the Secretary for Ireland,
if there had been any period since the Bill was first introduced
eip to tl e present time, that the provisions of the Act would
have been carried into effect, supposing the Bill had passed
into a law? If not, then be would say there was no necessity
for the measure. It. however, he should be told that there
was a period when the Act would have come into operation,
11 then nettling could justify the criminal delay in bringine ties
measure forward. Under all these circumstance: be considered
it would be dangerous and improper to give such delicate
powers to persons who did not possess the confidence of that
House.
Mr. SPOONER said his Hon. Friend the Member for Dor-
setshire had appealed to him on this question, and he (Mr.
Spooner) assured him that he did not feel the slightest dificulty
in answering him, although his Hon. Friend thought he had
placed him in a very difficult position. He could not admit
that he was in a difficult position. He greatly doubted
whether the result would not prove that the Hun. Member for
Dorsetshire was himself in a difficult position. His Hon.
Friend had rested hie opposition to this measure, not rip= the
ewsitive fact of its not being necessary, but he inferred its nnn-
necessity from the conduct of the Ministers. Ht had like-
wise rested his opposition to this measure upon his want of
confidence in the Ministers ; and then he alluded to it in the
usual way—to the test of a want of confidence in Ministers—
namely, an address to the Crown expressing that to be the opinion
of the House—and he (Mr. Spooner) cheered. that allusion
and that cheer brought forth the appeal. Now, his Host.
Friend asked him whether he was prepared to vote no confi-
dence in Ministers, and whether he was ready to vote in favour
of the Government of the country going into other hands? Now
ne ( Mr. S.) believed that that wouldbe a perfectly constitutional
and Parliamentary course. He did not rest his support of this
measure upon the state in which Ministers were at the present
moment. If his lion. Friend app sled to that as a witnes for
the necessity of the measure, he (Mr. Spooner) would appeal
to the statements then lying on the table of that House. He
slid not trust simply to the declaration of Ministers. He ap-
appealed to the statements of crime upon the table of the
House; and, after a careful inspection of these documents. he
felt bound to grant the measure his support, as he believed it
to be essential for the preservation of life and property in Ire-
iand.—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had likewise said that
he appealed to the Irish Members on the other side of the
House, and all of them had declared that the measure was not
necessary ; and even if necessary it would be found to be ineffi-
cient.—( Cheers from the Opposition side of the House.) He
(Mr. Spooner) appealed to all Hon. Members on hie own side
of the House ; and, on the eontrary, every one of them had
declared that the measure was necessary ; and they told the
House that the moral effect of refusing this measure would be
tremendous in Ireland. Increase of crime, and more out-
rages welds', in their opinion, be the result ; the
rejection of this measure would be an encouragement
to the murderer.—(Hear, hear, and No, no.) They had
told them, that the most serious consequences would follow the
rejection of this measure, and he (Mr. Spooner) would say,
that he had had the opportunity of conversing, with many of
the Hon. Members from Ireland, and particularly with one
who had just returned from Ireland, and he assured him, that
the well. disposed people of the t country, apprehended with the
greatest dismay, the rejection of this measure—that its rejec-
tion would, in.fact, most seriously endanger the peace of Ire.
lend.—(Hear, hear.) Those apprehensions were particularly
entertained by those who were called the Conservative party
in Ireland.—( Ironical cheers.) They said that if the House
of Commons rejected this measure, they believed that it sveuld
he a triumph to one party• in Ireland, whilst it would sink the
other into dismay, and that the consequences were such
as the Members of that House could not anticipate.—( Hear,
hear.) And he must say that those friends of the Conserva-
tive party in Ireland who sat on his side of the House had just
reason to complain—that having stood by the English Members
an the battle which they had recently fought for protection to
native industry—having fairly supported them through all the
arduous struggles in which they had been recently engaged—
Ironical cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter)—he thought

that they had a just reason to complain that they had not even
been consulted with regard to their views upon this measure.
It was first intimated to them that it was the intention of the
Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, and those who acted with I
him, to vote for the measure, as they conceived it. to be
essential to the peace and prosp -rity of Ireland.—(llear, i
hear.) He (Mr. Spooner) confessed that when the Noble I
Lord rose in his place, and stated, on behalf of himself and those 1
who usually acted with him, that it was the intention of him-
self and his friends to vote against it, it happened that he (Mr.
Spooner) did not happen to be informed of that intention, and
he did confess that he was strongly tempted at the time to get
up and disclaim any such intention on his own part.--(Laugh.
ter.) The Noble Lord had no right to represent that it was
his (Mr. Spooner's) intention to vote against the Bill. He
-was glad that he did not rise at the moment to check the
Noble Lord, for the delay had given him time coolly to con. I
eider what opinion he should entertain and express, of which 1
it might afterwards be difficult to get rid. He had given this 1
measure a cool, and calm, and iadifferent consideration.— I
(Cries of " Oh ! Oh ! ") He had seen that this measure was
first of all considered necessary by the majority at that House.
He had seen, too, how the measure was received in the House i
of Lords. He had searched the records of that House, and he
found that its unanimous consent was given to the measure.
He found that those Noble Lords of that highly powerful party :
—that influential party in the other House—Eoh, oh)—who
unusually acted in unison with Members on the other side of !
that House of Commons voted for it. He contended, then, I
that this measure was recommended in a manner which ought I
to call for such a support from the Members of the House of
Commons as to suffer it at. least to go into Committee.—(Hear
hear.) He likewise conceived that those who had voted for, 1
the first reading of the measure were called upon to vote for it i
in its subsequent stages. As a general principle, he admitted ;
that the House was not bound to do so on every Bill—that was
to say, with regard to Bills which were allowed to be read a
first time as a matter of course. And had they riot gone into
a full discussion upon this measure—had they not the whole
principle debated fully for five nights prior to its first reading--
its merits and demerits
he should have admitted that the Members of that Il
might change their votes on this the second reading, ejlaa.7;
when he remembered how compleaely
bad beets canvassed—when after &length? debate they had been
called upon to give their deliberate "udenisent and opinion upon
the measure, ants they had accordingly 3 recorded their votes—he
did say, although he didpleano.etdpreiend to dictate to Ilenf
already given. They were bound by
Members, that they were
care and examine whether any circumstancesthe votes which they had
in consistencyad te k good
to justify them arisenta e since
they voted for its first reading whetranyng had taken place
short, and without any reason vote against the second reading.
changing their votes, and now turn round
Something had already happened, probably, to justify that
change.—( An ironical cheer.) He understood thattleattea7e—n
it alluded to circumstances which had very 2'
;Ito to justify them in 1
place—it alluded to the present ;position of
—( Hear, hear.) But was that rafter having voted for the 1
voting against the second reading,
Members of the House in this
ters involve? It involved the . _ _ _ .
their
in favour
first? What did the recent changeof the position of Minis-
if tbbeilti,a of the delay occasioned by the Ms-
coneented to withhold vote
did they give their first vote in fa
vour of
nesters, why then • ~
?a...(lean ) If the measure had been delaled
odfiffitheeeltmy'etashuarte,
the Ministers, was that a reason why it should
übennercjeeted ?
the measure ?--(Bear')
by
When Ministers had at length brought it for-
ward a second time, ought it to be rejected because of the
delay? He conceived that the measure ought to be pressed
forward with all convenient epeed. He knew the difficulties
under which Ministers were labnuricg at the present moment.
He remembered an expression of the Noble Lord the Member
for Lynn, which was to the effect, that the blood of every mur-
dered person rested upon the heads of the Ministers if they
suffered any unnecessary delay. tie (Mr. Spooner) would
ask the Noble Lord what he now thought of that expression,
and whether, upon the mere ground that Ministera had
hitherto delayed the measure, he was justified in carrying out
that delay, and if he did not consider that the blood of every
murdered man in Ireland hereafter would rest upon the head
of himself and those who voted against it ? ( Hear, hear. )
He (Mr. Spooner) would not give his vote upon this oecas.on
• merely for a party purpose—he was quite sure that he need
not say that—( Laughter ) beceuee his posit* would clear
him of such a charge. He could not consent to make Ireland
the battle field of party.—(Cheers.) He could not consent to
leZd :::,...""`Q:.: tO ;ay saeame tl.aaa. ',;4d :zet:ely fo; :.te, *act a

change of administration—( Hear, hear)—when he saw that
life and property in Ireland was left unprotected. He could
not refuse giving his assent to a measure like this, which he
really believed would have the effect of giving greater security
to life and property. After a deliberate judgment, and the
best consideration he could give to the measure, he must err
that he conscientiously believed it to be imperatively called fora
—( Hear, hear.) No party considerations or motives would in-
fluence him in the vote which he was about to give. He
would ask his Hon. Friend the Member for Dorsetshire
whether his vote was given under similar circumstances? The
vote of that Hon. Member it appeared would be a vote of ne
confidence in the Ministry, and one of confidence in the Noted
Lord, the Member for London —( Hear, hear.) Had the Hon.
Member forgotten the conduct of the late Government with
respect to the Irish Church ? Had he forgotten the appropria-,
lion clause ?—( Hear, hear.) Had be forgotten the manner tail
which that party had conducted themselves with regard tea
that party called the Conservatives? Was he prepared to cone
sent to their rash Idic) ? The late Government had tried to
govern Ireland by concessions which were dangerous to the
safety of the Protestant Church. Cmices.ions which had
been found only to call for further concessions.—
( Hear.) Whilst they tried to cenciliate a particular party,
they left unprotected and unguarded the people of Ireland.—
( Question.) And that was a charge which hid been brought
against the Noble Lord by the very party that he had served.
Much bad been said about the delay of her Majesty's Ministers
with regard to this measure, and that it ought to be withdrawn,
because crime had decreased since it was or.ginally broughtforward—a point which he was not willing tOconcede. But
even supposing that crime had since decreased, that di el not
show the moral effect which it had had upon the people of Ire-
land. Would not the measure for the preservation of life and
property be wanted during the ensuing and future winters?......
(Hear, hear.) He conceived, that if ti ey wished to
pacify Ireland they must first of all apply coercive
and then conciliatory measures. If he had refused to
give his support to this measure, 'after the statements which
had been laid before the House, he should have considered him-
self to have grossly abandoned his duty. It was not his cus-
tomupon the attention of the House—(Oh,
oh)
—taontdreislpeassiis
hie
should,
,thercfore, briefly conclude by assuring tthetheHouse that he would be quite prepared hereafter to give
support to any measure of relief to Ireland, by whatsoever
Member it might be brought
forward.—(Cheers.) Whatever
might be the sum proposed for the subatsntial relief of
r Ireland, he should most willingly vote for the grant-
They most take into consideration the condition of that
country, for which God bad done so 'ouch and man PO little ;
and if they did, they would find the' Iri relate woidd evince
their proverbial eraii't I andappreciation 't
the kind""
e
dis-
played towards them.
SHEIL.—s;
eee necessity is sometimes tbB,l;ane of the
best Government, and of a bad one, very frequerM the worst
pretence ; and in this instance that it is a pretence and "tan
argument, I have risen for the purpose of ahoavice. I ...0115'“eie'
that the criminality of Ireland is the result of that treat:ent
Mich has been applied to her by those who now propose ta.:'
present measure as a remedy tor it, and that, consequently. tit('
argument they have drawn from the necessity of the case is #
bad one. Following out this view, I shall have oceanic:, te
animadvert, in the remarks I am about to make,
on the policy which the Government has for some
time past pursued with regard to Ireland. Often
has it been my lot to condemn the measures which the Right
Hon. Baronet brought forward in connexion with that coun-
try, and when 1 do so I might to remember that it is to the
Right Hon. Gentleman himself that I am indebted for thee
privilege of pronouncing his condemnation.—(Laughter.)
And as, when the Right Hon. Gentleman was in the hey-day of
his power—in the high and exalted position which he held at
the head of the party which had taken him so long to con-
struct, but which was now reduced to such a state of dilapida-
tion, as I hope I always avoided then any offensive per-
sonality or malignant recrimination—now, when his fortune
has changed, when he has descended from that pinnacle.
where he was then placed, and when a cloud has passed over his
splendid career, it shall be my care that the animadversions I
may find it my duty to make shall not be associated with bitter-
ness.—( Hear, hear.) I own that I do not despair of the
Right Hon. Baronet, and I dwell with pleasure on the anti-
cipation that he who has exhibited such inconsistency, and at
length changed his views to so great an extent with regard
to the commercial affairs of this country, will yet give a
glorious consummation to the Irish policy.—( Hear. ) Having
now performed the office of hypothetical panegyrist, 1 will
new pass to a more distasteful task—that of finding fault
with the Right Hon. Baronet. I believe it was the intention
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, when he passed the Catholic
Emancipation Bill,
,had be remained then in power, to
have carried the Twit of that measure into effect. He
mace a speech on that occasion, a pas,age of which was, in my
(Tinian, of more importance than the recent allusions which
have been made to that period. He then enumerated the
various times when Coercion Bills had been tried, and when
the result expected from them did not follow. He said that
for the purpose of showing that coercive measures had
frustrated their intentions, and that some other
remedy must be applied to the grievance s of the ceuntry.
But how did the Right Hon. Gentleman act when that Bill be-
came law, and when he was subsequently obliged to go into op.
position? The Right Hun. Baronet exerted himself tee .the
utmost—did his worst, to obstruct the Whigs in their efforts to
carry the principles of the Emancipation Bill into effect, and to
ameliorate the condition of Ireland. I will just instance two
examples of the course of conduct he pursued the Municipal
Bill and the Irish Registration Bill, The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman announced his intention of assimilating the franchiees
of England and Ireland, but what a comment war
that announcenieut on the conduct of the Right Hon.
Gentleman since. With regard to the line of proceeding on
the Irish Registration Bill, I will say that it i= a disgrace to
my party. Perhaps the object intended when the Whigs were
in power was to molest er obstruct their antagonists. At
soon, however, as the Right. Hon. Baronet came into power.
molestation was set aside; and though session after
session the Secretary of State promised to bring in
a Bill upon the subject. we are now almost
on the verge of a general election, and instead
of a Registration Bill, a Coercion Bill oat introdnced-
The Right Hon. Baronet had found himself entangled in a
web whose intricate mazes be hiavielf had spun. The Right
Baronet endeavoured he bit saeings to counteract t,t.
doings, but 1 think we arc toll' by Sliakspere that—
'Tis a kind good thing to Fay;"

but wh n he shook the confidence of one party he
did not succeed in gaining the confidence of the
other. Every man in Ireland who could write with
force—every man who could speak with contagions
energy—all classes, the priesthood and the hierarchy of Ireland
—every man was arrayed in dire hostility against them, and
the agitation for repeal which succeeded was the con-
sequent of those measure: which they had brought for-
ward. What did you do to meet that state of things ?
You dismissed the repeal magistrates. Then followed the
state prosecutions, which were carried en in the spirit of
oppressive blundering, and the world shortly afterwards beheld
the liberator of his Catholic countrymen incarcerated 'hy
Preteetant jury, at the instigation of the man by whom the
Jury Act had been carried. How then can you wonder,
when justice had committed suicide, that this thou d have pro-
duced its influence on the other classes of the community ?
It is not a change in the constitution which is required, but a
change in the policy of the Government. Compare the re-
sults of the Government with that of Lord Normanby; and
in the first place let nee ask you how that Government was
constituted? Lord Normanby, the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland,
was beloved by the people ; his chief secretary v: as my Lord
Morpeth. I must beg your pardon, Sir, for breaking the
order of the House, and I will only say that his name is
sufficient to be mentioned to secure him praise. His under
secretary was Mr. Drummond, who, though not born in Ire-
land, was more than an Irishman in his love of the country.
Mr. Wolfe and Sir M. O'Loghlin, the ornaments of the Catholic
bar, were respectively year Attorney and Solicitor-Generals
There were conductors between the Government and the
people. The Government was supported by every man of in-
fluence in the country—it was supported by every one of the
Catholic body, and every Catholic clergyman became in some
sort an unappointed constable.—( Hear, hear.) But unless you
should think that my evidence ought to be listened to with
suspicion, let me read a pa'sage to you on the " Past and Pre.
sent Policy rowan's Ireland," a book not written in a hostile
spirit towards the Right Hon. Baronet ; on the contrary, it is
fraught with praise founded upon anticipation. The writer
says that Ireland never made more rapid improvement
than under the Government of Lord Normanby ;
and under him for the first time the Irish Catholics
began to fed that the Government cared for their
interests, and the question of the repeal of the Union
was almost forgotten and discarded. The author then adverts
to a meeting held at Mallow, where upwards of one hundred
thousand prisons were assembled to present an address to Lord
Normanby. They owned that they had belonged o the party
who had agitated for the repeal of the Union, but that in conse-
quences great and liberal policy, they tendered their
of the opinion which they entertained of his Excel-
lency, and of hi
to alienate their affections from Lngland. Now, I think that
resignation of that question, or any other which might appear
statement which I have submitted to you plainly de-
monstrates to you that for the necessity of the
measure their exists no grounds whatever. But from,
the consideration of this point, I will pass to another
more immediate to the question at issue. if the Government
conceives this Bill to be necessary, if They regarded it as abso
lately indispensable, if they thought that without this Bill
Murder could net be arrested in its career, what is the reason
that Parliament was not called in the month of November last?
—(Cheers.) When the Government were conscious that.
they had two great questions before the Legislature. why wao
it that Parliament was not. called in the month of November ?
It has again and again been asserted during the course of this
debate that the Government were bound to bring for ward
their Coercion Bill in the House of Lords ; to that aFstrtion rstr
answer has as yet been zubinitted.— (Hear, hear. An entire
month elapsed before the Bill was brought forward, and
on
cannot say that your Bill was not ready—
it consists of no more
than three pages.—(' H hear.)
ear, y
And when that Bill carol
down from the Hotsee you did notsuggest •good reason.
any go
why it should not have passed beforeyour Corn Bill. The
Irish ports were opened fur the importation of Indian corn ;
you ought to have
given a protection for life before you took
protection from corn. But there exists no necessity for the
Bill; and if you examine the statements made by the Hon.
Baronet, you must see that there has been no case made. In
the Queen's speech it was stated that
perpetration;
thaencsisna
ear! as-
sassination has been of frequyent
eictererpaery
intro;duced the ram-
Right Hon. Baronet thet home
; thata' the disturbances were confined
sure, he stated distinc y
few ruffians in those counties, and
to five counties, and by a
that the mass of the people were untainted. The Right Hutt,.
Baronet further said that in those counties which were tainted
the crimes were
committed by bands of ruffians, but that the
number of persons in those lands were insignificant when cores-
pared with the great body of the people. He then went
on to say that the effect of the Bill would he
to punish the districts where crime occurred by causing
them to maintain the force requisite to maintain order ; and
now I ask, has a ease been made out for this h ave any
substantial facts been put forward to show you that a Bill of
this kind, which is to last three years, should receive your eon-
sent--and has a case been made out for the original conclusion
of this Bill, which, when it was first introduced, was intended
to he impeeed everlastingly upon Ireland, and to be incorpoe
raeed with the institutictra of the country ?—(Cheers. ) I tarn
now to the speech made by the Noble Lord the Secretary for
Ireland. That speech consisted in a catalogue of the offences._ and.
I am not disposed to dispute the accuracy of the statement of the
Noble Lord but he cl.d not point out the efficacy of the
remedy, cot had it. been attempted to show how this measure
would prevent crime in Ireland. How is it that nocturnal
coerch.n will prevent diurnal outrage ? if you cage the owl:,
what is to become of the falcons?—( Loud cheers.) The Noble
Lord said that r he Arms Bill had completely failed. Whea
that statement was made, the Secretary for the Home Pcpurt-
ment signified by his look that he thought that the Noble Lord
had conic in a etite of nature from the woods sod foreete—
(Laughter and cheers)—and that he stood in need of the finely
wrought integuments of the mind which are so abundantly
supplied in the Hornc-office.—(Cheers.) Bat the admission is
one of the utmost importance. We cannot but recollect the fierce
contentions of party which took place upon thie very Arms' Bill,
and if you look at Hansard you will find that two or three
volumes are occupied with it. You then conceived that we
were then intiuenced by factions motives. We rest our
present predictions on the truth of our former vatieinatioss.
You ask. what is tp be done ? You say that the measure is
indispen,ible. and you have undertaken to show that a 'great
part of these evils can be cured by the force of this law. Tb.
Crown Solicitor for the county of Tipperary, does not reside
in .the enunty. • He has the whole provence. of Leinster in the,
range of hi: prefers oval employment: lie'goti twitx •

year to the sessiena and remit; afe Jays. He ie utterly
ignorant of the iocality —he is w•er v'_.:. rant of t e character
of the witnesses—ottetly ignorant of .he eharaeters of the
defendants.—so that it t.s impossible that he Awed lorniw
anything of the parries.—( Hear, hear.l The cases are
given to the counsel to the Crown ; and of the eouesel
to ,he Groan I sty iiiithitig more ;ban tine—thee the counsel
employed by the preeini r are geueralty superior, incomparably
superior; and the Hon. Gentleenati th"' Recorder for the City
of Dublin will admit that what I now say is perfectly true.
But I can give a stronger proof that I am right in the view
I take of the case. You have, again and again, referred to the
evidence of Mr. Cahill. and the Noble Lord the Secretary to
the Lord-Lieutenant has referred to Mr. Cahill twice. The
Prime atieisiter has referr d to his evidence, aid the 1-Inn.
Secretary tie the Home Departmen he., no doubt, tea! his
evidence Mr. Cahill, at the cummencement o his
examination, said - and you must admit the import-
ance of its bearing on this q 'canon —Y u are
aware that in Tippetary there is a come called the Court of
A•c.i2e. The president of this court is Mr Leigh tli.wley : in
consukration of hi •e' viers the ffie., was gineu to him. Mr.
Leigh Tloeley is assiste I.y Me. Cahill ; teal what has been
the result? The face of the counts! of Tweeter), in wh ch
crime was prevalent, and which was the scene of no much
bloodsh- d, has been ma, eeially cha.,ged. Mr. Cahill was exa-
mine:l on that po nt, and in his evidence he said that these
foes had been considerably reduced. The superint administra-
tion of the laws had created a disposition of confidence
amongst the people. If there be any truth in his evidence, I
think that it aff.irds a atrorg proof that th s is not
a measure wh.ch we should resort ta as we are about to do.
There are other and political c-nsiderati ng connected with
this important aues•ion. wh ch vim ought not to ei.mise from
your m nds—temely, the .ff rt that this m-asu'e will have in
stimulating political agitation : a r* mecy for which you have
wished ito'nfuch, and which yoe.hatre rakei such sma'l pains
to find. N ver hasten this measure, but give the measure its
due %eight. Yo i ugi tto en ',ler with the deepest attention,
the fact, r hat in any me ianre intended fie ',eland, there
never was such great e 'ution indispensab'e—( Hears
hear.) The r• peal of the corn-1 as in Ireland
ought to make Tin beo.are how you eiminieter to the popular
excitement Hear." from 'he Ministerial beteheshand two
me be permitte.i in expl in myself. There
sa s in Ireland
great navies in the ems, u'ion—the pr• pi irs t.:ll7,ilnacned;
those who till it. Neither of these Dar•ies satire both
their powers ire deve'iiiiied. These sir pa. tie% are h d
by this measure the in,. rest of the one partyhand'he pa,smes
th se ety t
of the other. lam one of to :rela.mi. because I
think t the ',peal a
the corn-law will ultiniatsly be a been fi
am conti.fent that what us for the proseerity of ~re country
must he for the prosperity of asother. 1 o not think that the
measure is overva ueii, such is not the im•-ressien of the
Prue-tans g..n, ry I Tey e.ive that yin do 'hem
wrong.
Trwy k that you base be. an an a tack on them.
bN depriving then, of 'heir kei. and putting them on a foot.
in., with Hollatnt and Deli tofu and relaxing one nt the laws of
the country. I admit that they err in their judgment to a wear
extent, but at th • can e time you must remember that the
Rig t Hon. Baronet wisi el the repeal of he corn laws would
ha, e a certain eft' upon I e-and tied at the same time he has
reoeveit Ire) nit from ri.e payment of 200,0001., which was
pressirr on her manufactures, thereby, admitting that a
certain incembrance will be the effee of this Bill. Many an
old Crammed an. ;oeg hendirg under the Irtrdens of his mort-
gages, will now fast under the Nude,' as soon as the repeal
of the corn laws ewes into iipe.aiion. It seems to
me to be in some degree impolitic on pier prat 'that you w
by this measure excite the sea, mof tha, cola-s of men on whom
you have hitherto reli- d for sumiort., anti that you should also,
at the same time, administer to the excitement of the popular
party. The Secretary at-War us d, when sii,eakirie on this
raja,: the words • din erre. rm. n, of the empire." and my
Hon. F lend he Member for Ki.kenviv. who spas fired by the
spark. remonstrated with him en the ru ject. My Hon Friend
has no iettaitien of dismemb- ring tr it empire. Nly Hon.
'Friend Said that 'n hi. paiion. the rape,' of the Union was
ca4ndanal to produce that re tilt. If that he the case, and
th.• eisinemhe-ment of the empire wilt he the result of the
repeal of the Un on. you weird be ineluding both ceuetries
in flee cemmou ruin. I, it not the consiimmation nt
imeolicy on our part to furnish thoos champions
of repeal, with an irnipottnnity to unit rem in Ireland a law
whim, no Minister was suffi nenth, advetitureut to impose unon
the country for Ike put ears of protection. No English
Minister would have ventured to impose tisch a law on •his
country. N.. E-giish Minister wend base Unposed such a law
mion err' h L ,neashoe, where the same ?ewe of things has
ex:red. Was it sugg sed to impose sot h a law on South
Laneatihne when, in ISI9, the six Acts were framed.
and when large h• dies cf men were di, eip'incd with
a t• to mi,,ta--y orta-ialtion. Look afterwards-in the year
1630, to the state of Kent, and five other counties in the
south nt &Warw, and at the si•teli of ineerolai ism which
then literal el Was any such el '2.OtP anempted to be im-
peied as that on which the Geverrment are now resolved?
On a nn,sure of this k nd the 'steer tary for the Home De.
partment, then Mr. P- el, would have made out with Parlia-
mentary t efinittens, the note s,ity 'or forwarding II measure of
t 14 kind, and night have described the var.ous real,es
illludinz to ihe crimes :shish had occurred in England
as an induceme, t to pass the h Conservation Bill."
No such ineasure was e'er adopted vii'h re-pest to Wale..
Y,.0 did not a reit any measure of this kind in Wales. You
acted on the honourable mine pie. on which the incorperation
of Wale- wi h Ergtand is toun ed, and which Mr Burke, in
a speeci which he ma h., praise., as an immortal p ction.
Wiry is it that sse ae c maid r-ti or.vrorthy of the privileges of
Enehlime ? Are we less entitled to the rights of British
subj. cts ? I .m ''raid to tel the tru h. hat you are in-
blueuced by the op it of %Lew aree nt masterdom. It
appears to me t . the great omit of English
sane= n, that they "tight to observe th.t a vast chai ge
has tak.ll place in the soar eter of the Irish people, for in tioe
case the (li, on has contra ued much to he education of the
people. AJain, and again. 1 'e'er to the progress of educati in
in Ireland. You have g ven a high prier. for their education,
but y'.o ought to I ace looked at its re•u t-. Pei hat's, you
insaginru that the educate n o the t e of ci uld not
be attend d by aey 1.-portant lolliical eo.vsque ce. You
we'e mise,ken fo- y uw II ti air cabins tax ks eon-
taming narrat v s a tt p s-alts of sublime to -rainy, and
ca eie‘isunt . f th tuitunss arid h a or; of the country.
It al pe •r. to me that Ile r• is no of e fire the Ea.sine tit this
title. l call upon ion to reieet .he Rill, because there is no
evir:enee et its te.cesSity. 7b-re is so proof that the Bill wilt
obtain it. purpose—there i- no sort of eeiamice to -bow that
the Bit, will be more snecessiul than those which have pre-
y° ed i'. As 'here is tin Leer city for the further abolition of
that great pti, elide on which the union re.ts, and because
there is an intention to avail the.n•elve: of that union leer the
pure s- i flitting on toe tfrople that aqamot which the
i.h empire ren:oa,tratt a, I, for one, shall vote against the
bill.

'lbe SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he would not attempt
to follow at e Hight Hue. Gentleman through his very discur-
sive speech, but he would attempt to show to the House that
the present measure was called for in Ir tan fur the pro ection
of the lives and property of th- peaceab'y disposed. ( !he Hon.
Member from this moment was ()erectly inaudible in the gal-
lery for above a quarter of an bhur. ) Measures of this rtesenc
tion had proved successful befere and he. for one, could not
see why this one should not do so. In 18.35 +he number of
crimes commit-eft in Ireland was 8,000, and the coesetpleore
was, the L gis at ire passed a Coe cien Bill. It proved effi -
cartione and ,n 15:37 the number of Brims heti fallen to 6 INtO.
A irsot.orr was then mate to repeal the Ac.. but its wo k,ng
had provht so satis'actory that on'y three Members could be
found to support it. The Rill .v. ntatally ceased to be opera.
tsve, and since that time came had prgres.ively incteased;
Aced, in 1845. it had reacted
~025 twice even ti au in 1835.
Cou!ri ;stay execu..ve le this state of eirgs witi oats at-
te otittn:4 to apel% a remedy—sod what bettrr. rerne..y, he ask d
co Oti +bey find than tl-at wtech we. riatated by f re' ?
(I-Ipar.: h. ar.) Ar.o h r rea,on sties lenderen it imprrativt.y
net• slit% hr m to hake an if it to al p'y a remedy wa-
t at 41 ..0 roue ry in -he a IA dot the t umber of itt VW, com-
m..: ti h: r slch't d sprop -num to the numner of (finders
broargtn. t.o inane.• as in Ireland, - (Hear. h. ar ) in disturb d
ci- rids, out oi 1,185 cat . es reineeitted Sear, m l‘ 5: (.f
the pe,pe.ra.n s were b., tight t., justice. (Hear, -loan )
Not, es tr. a 1,000 nat.:ages had taken place in five chunties in
Jr hod lha• p r cri of flue tnon•las, and surely in smell a
irate of things the iirbabi mita arf larlane— he industrious and
auttlitig tonnbitnits—ctrre rti, Heil to protectitn The
Learned Soliaritor trleneral th.n r ad alit of mes committee
in that et.notry ft e ti .e month In- t-45. and the same period
in I-46., defindric p.lriieular chat ae.er of each off4D CP but
suen was the e-n-us oo at the bar, the (men 'mat cites o
divit:e," and:tither moue., that the speaker's s• ate.
merit could nor be h• ant in its. gallery. 1 he Hon. and
Learned Gerrlem,di re-unied, amidst great contu.ion and loud
cries of " D.viile, divide," by declaring that. he ca.nsorentiously
believed this measure to b- imperatively called for. lie sh.nlat
give it his cordi.l .11pp/wt.
The .11arqus of CH ANDOS said it was his it tention to
have given a -dent vote uron Its- neca.iim, but ha I.e &tie so
be mt,ht have been liable to the imputa•ton of Jsseriting to 'he
language arid trireetives which had be. n so frequently used in
the ra nese of .he debate. —( Hear, hear.) W.th tegard to the
reason? wiiiich.had ludo( ed him to,sgiatert, the Bill, he bad
but little difficulty in finding the most ample grounds tor the
vote he was ab. ut to give in the speech of .he Noble Lt.rd 'he
Secretary for Ire'and. The statements which the Neb e Lard
Made Itvtd since barn conti•med by reports And le tvns which
no one had a:temrad to di-cri.ve ; and seeing th t rte exist-
ing law was not s.,ifietent for the maintenance and aecuri y of
life and property in Ir land. he had no hesitation to var-tug the
per,ts of this Hill a, the disposal of her Maj st.'s Governor nt.
( Hear, hea..) it had been urged by -owe Hen. Gentle-
men that (he moon ity etivht to give wan to ti e f the
ra,4"itv, but he would f .r one. n vrr yelii to the °NMI n of
tor ,e tn4l wh, n ft. 1111.1 i was nor supp- rte by argument
tio:4o'.e‘ 0 • Gies of Hear, hear.") As to the ques
a ee,fi W e tee in her Nlsje-s G van.m. nt, he
eon ones fur .
in that
a• 1 preps
moment a me( t it w involved
that he .-..en if it w re, he could not eay
hear.) The o ag--in4t the dna ure.—( Hear,
the promple they bad t. toitnit g '0 do with. It was
and the deta.is might
aferwar :s be so are- need render
provisir ns of the Bill
porchh .rmles., so tar as the
at.d ientierisive were
conc2rneiL He htt'l no h s"a"" thenii, , ffirnAnu th •n
Ibe orris
ctp ef the ,Ld whatever mit:l4 be the f e Pra •
sion, he should have the sat 4a,tioto, of knowing n at hP Lad
given his vote accord ng te 'he dlees o h14..wil
convietia ns, and withour. refereoce to factious or p sty
—(t be re )
Maio BERESFORD—The Noble Lord had not proved
that the BO would ha any ht netieial eff. et The Hon.
!tuna, anal la ft
Itlem.lor for Birmingham had (lone th s
the que tin, exae. It where he footed it. The fight
Baronet
11
ha 4'o 1411,,U,11 the sate course. and he hint e(i th .t one of
the chief ii fficu ti..s. the Anon strat.on of hisser .n 1 eland was
that wt.-,r 101.0- 01 b.sin t g a villa rice 0 tarovict.
World live 'or lot lout! tiv the ,e.,1 e in their eab-ns have
soh an effe t !tear, hear. ) He nt u o v .1e for he still if
he ...on-we-es, rt.a, it ViCUld tut, e ant .11 et. but fee (01i-
-5.1 isa that, it seine re. i.e ref),4l hi, WA.' agal:01, it.
He read runs. rw d a many at i i. Irish Conserra' ire fria ndo,
who erid that th- Bid was a had ctie. but that it aloud pas-,
beeaute if v were rej c ed i, would gave tr.uariph to a par-
ticular party in Ireland hu he was. of h ditfereo op nt n.
He co si... red it %shill I be a trinrey.h to the courdi-,, aril prove
that Logiand ass r• a to tre..t Ireland in a spirit of
After a few words from Mr. AIDERLEY, (as we be..
lieved. in tavour of th- measure) But %bid) diet not reach the
gallery,
NEWDEGATE rose amidst loud groans, and cries of
" Oh, oh," which rend,r-d him for seme time tr audible,
and in the midst of AM.+ he abruptly terrninat.-..1 his spa te.h.
Capt. HA 't HIS w 'shed to know th,- tzse of such a measure,
which wou al me elv have the effect of shavting up the honest
man all nivlat, and leaving the field clear 'or the mialniu'et uffian.
Act freety and trahltty tee ants the people of Ireland, and that
noble race w at fee always lurid to surport the acts ad this
country. He had never but one ep nom on the Catholic
question and the vans thy the ernaticipat inn ought to have
baron gran ( Hear, hear.) He wateed the Government
against the policy they had adopted, es one which would be
of the greatest ii.jury to the peact- and prosperi'y of the
pourtry,
Captain JONES had heard the last Hon. Member state that
the ezieing law was taut e >U ('lt 7t fir the suppressiain of
aim in Ireland, but that was not the case. it was whli
IMMO- that the present law was inadiqute to the protection of
life and property.
Lord INGESTRE said, that On the first introduction of
the Bell he vceed for it, on the ereunds that life and property
were not secure in Ireland. Hail the goes' lot. been tollowed
up in the same spirit it watt introduced, he would hare gladly
rppueted the Get:eminent • but under present eircuinstanneS
lAftillt he would sat the mg cohohowat sad jadiame y.ut

by ab-tain'ng from vn•ing altegether..--(Lond cries of" Oh,"
and • Divide, divide," ami.l which the Hun. Member sat
down.)
Mr. I'ETER BORTHWI K only wished to say that his
vote would be given on the merits of the Bill, and on no other
consideration. ( Loud cries of Divide, divide.")
Mr. COBDEN said he would probab4. sn:l himself in a
majority on the present °evasion. and would no doubt
find himself in the bby with three classes of
gentlemen of widely different opinions. He wished,
therefore, to explain his own vote on this occa-
glen. The Noble Lord the Member for - Lynn said,
that by their vote this night they would show their opinions on
the conduct of the Right Hon Paronet, but he denied such a
ens strue•ion of'beir vete". The Noble Lo-d might feel that
1 e was about infix ink p Atka' jus.iee on the H--n. Hamlets and
at the same time whin the ann .uncem. n had been made of
the other Bills having been p.s-ed; but he (11r. Cobden)
hoped that ro such e..nstre. ton would be put upon Lis vote.
I teemed that the Right Him. Baronet attached is, much itn-
post--nce to this Bill that he was prepared to stand or fall by
it ; but he ( Mr. C.-12:er.) wc,uld not follow the .:ample of the
Noble L. id. and stultify his vote by vottrg that black was
white for a partieular purpose.—(Cheers.) Hefted said two
months ago, that it was pos-ible that if the corn-laws were
passed the Lords. the Right Hou. Baronet might be placed
in a minority by a cross v•de ; because he foresaw
that the • Honourable Gentlemen below the gangway would
adopt such-a course. consistently with their personal honour,
which could not indeed. on are; ease, be called in question in
that House.—CHear. heat) New be begged to inform the
H-the and lion. Gentlemen oppo-ne that this state of things
had ben lnng look d
at with a jealous eye by persons out of
. .
door.. They could not c, retinue with :12 er parties in
that House,, neither party tieing able to carry on the Govern-
ment. The e must 13* a fusi.n between -ome two of these
peon... and he ( Cold• ti) sea no prospect of an amalga-
mation between the gentlemen be'ow the gangway and
their old friends.—( Cheers.) There was nothing he should
regret so much as that the Right Hon. Baronet should be
tweed into an all ance with this rear ward party.—(('on-
you'd cheers ) There was no distinction now between the
followers of the Noble Lord the Member for Loreton and those
who supported the Right H .n. Baronet.—( Great cheering
from the protectieeivs.) He did no* understand the logical
inference to be de, wed from that cheer tut he it not think
that it held nut any very cheerio: prospect for the gentlemen'
below the gangway —( Ceuta er cheering.) He apprehended
that a to-inn must tak, plaee be wen the supporters of the
two rival chefs, but if the H gh. Bon. Baronet chose to retire
from • ffiee in consequenee of the vote of the House on that
evening, be would ea- ry with him the esteem and the grvitude
of a larger number of the population o. this empire than bad
ever ioliewed any beater Ministei.
Mr. CA RE W—" Not the esteem of the working classes."
Mr. COHDEN-Ihe Hon. Member for Cornwall said—not
the esteem of the working :lasses. He (Mr.- Cobden) was
sure that he would carry the esteem of the working classes
along with him, and the gratitude-.of the voting classes also.
He though' that the Right lion Baronet had she -n a ;treat
'teal of forbearance to the Gentlemen below the gangway
in not takdrg them at their word, and at once
appealing to the country. He ( Yr. Cobden) was not misin-
terpreting the opinion of the working classes. and he would
venture in his own name, and on their part, to thank the
Right Hon. Baron• t for the undeviating firmness, the un-
wearied perseverance, and the consummate ability.w'tb which
be had conducted to a happy teimination one ant the most mag-
nificent reforms which hail eve been carried through the
Houses of P r,iament.—Great cheering.)

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
,iisided. %hen there appeared—
___

For 'be second reading
Against it
Majority against Ministers
The anncnneeinent was received with load cheers by the

op osit ton.
fhe Ea.% of LINCOLN obta;ned leave tr► bring in a Bill to
Amend the law relating to the value of ra.eable property in
Ireland; Uso a Bit' for the aboli' ion of the ea,•lu-tve privilege
of tradiug or of regmating trades in cities, tu A bs, or torough,
in hetaud ; he w,shed to make an eacr•p•ion in &tour of the
Golitsmiths' guilds

Mr. GROOAN said. the rights which it was proposed to
affret w• re very old, and he did hope the House would hesitate
very much before they would consent to adopt the pr nciple of
the a I —Leave was then Liven.

The House then re-umed.
ADDRE •w TO HER MAJESTY.

Colonel D. DAMER appeared at the bar with the
anover to the ad.tre.s to her Majesty of the 25th of May.
The answer was—•• I hive received with sa tsfactnn your
loyal and do iful address, and I thank you fur the proof it eon-
:am, of your attachment to me "
The other orders of the day were then diwosed of, and the
Hone adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'clock.

W ENT v-rIRST REPORT FROM
THE SELECT CON! NUT I'EE UN RAILWAY
BILLS t I.ASSIFICATION.
The select Committee appointed for the Classification of Railway
Bills, according to the Resolutions adopted by the House, have
further considered the several matters reterred to them, and agreed
to the following report :
Your Comm ttee recommend that the Waterford, Wexford, Wick-
low, and Lublin Hallway Bill be removed from Group .N o. 65 and
added to Group No. 63.
That the Great Southern and Western ,Railway (Cork Ettension),
the Clonmel and Thurles, and the Killarney Junction Railway BUT
be removed from Group No. 66 and added to Group No 63.
That the Larne Belfast. and Ballymena hallway Bill be removed
min Group No. o 2 and added to Group No. 63.
1 hat the Nevvry, Waireupo.nt, and Russtro or Railway Bill be re-
:erred to Group No. 63.