The Sun.
London, England, 1848-05-02 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 2, lB4B.

explanation was satisfactory to Mr. Ayre, and he
trusted that it would be so to all those who had a
legitimate interest in the matter ; he feared, however,
there might be some whom he could not satisfy ; and
he must say that, although no man could more highly
than himself value the liberty of the press as essen-
tial to the freedom of the constitution, or be more
anxious to protect it from being in the slightest de-
gree violated or infringed, yet its purity constituted
its greatest strength, and an editor should be extremely
cautious how he employed it in a manner calculated
to bring the administration of the law in any Court
into disrepute or contempt, as by attributing to judges
unworthy motives or caprice in the exercise of their
judicial functions.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
GUILDHALL.
Three young lads, named George Hay, James
Taylor, and George 11PDonald were brought up
before Alderman Finnis, on the charge of being in
Guildhall-buildings with intent to commit a felony.
From the evidence it appeared that police-constable
Elgar, No. 48, observed two of the prisoners, about
twenty minutes past two o'clock in the afternoon of
Sunday, busily engaged in removing some lead
which fastened the grating in one of the areas of the
Bankruptcy Court, while the third one was on the
watch. Had they succeeded in their work they
would have been enabled to raise the grating and get
into the basement of the building, when they would
have had the full range of the premises, and could
remove whatever property they had a fancy for.
Alderman FINN'S said that he had no doubt they
were connected with a gang of experienced thieves,
whose object as evident, and he should therefore
w
send them all to
WprEissonnfvmorthsreTeEmß.onths.
Mr. Broderip was occupied for some hours in dis-
posing of a case of affiliation, in which Mr. Edward
Hacker, of No. 1, Morton-villas, Kentish-town, was
alleged to be the father of a bastard child, to which
Isabella Shaw, a well-dressed woman, apparently
about 25 years of age, had given birth.
Mr. E. P. Price, barrister, appeared on behalf of
the complainant; and Mr. Ballantine, barrister, for
the
a defendant.
proved
having briefly opened his case, as after-
in evidence, called the complainant, who,
wl
vr.
Price
od va
e nd t.
i
n swornies
hsa y theid namename—Myof Stacey.
siscy. I know th
Isabellae Shaw, bute
°dlegfeboendainotnnt e tm
Mr. Hacker, as the registrar of births,
deaths, and marriages, for Kentish-town. I first
became acquainted with him in April, 1846,
by going to register the birth of a child I had
then. On the 3d of the following March he
renewed the acquaintance by standing godfather
;for the child. On the 14th of March he invited
Ime to dine with him at his own house, and I
!went. The improper intimacy commenced that even-
ling. I went on the following day to reside at 8,
!Upper Ebury-street, where he frequently visited me.
IHe came to see me almost daily, and visited me up to
the end of July. In the month of June I informed
him that I was in the family way. He said he was
ii very sorry, as he was afraid it would injure me with
'respect to my income. On the 28th of June I told
LJ him of it in the presence of Miss Green and another
person, and he did not deny it. He offered to give
me 151. or 201. when I was confined. I never re-
ceived anything from him. I went to him after I
had been confined three weeks, and he refused to give
•me anything. I was confined on the 22d of Febru-
ary. Since my confinement, he says, as I have been
informed, that Mr. Gregory is the father of my child.
He offered to give me .5/. to swear it to Mr. Gregory,
but I, of course, refused.
In answer to an inquiry, the complainant said she
was not intimate with any other person until three
months after she discovered herself enciente by Mr.
Hacker.

Three letters, forming a portien of a number
received by complainant from defendant, were put in
and read. They were all couched in nearly the
same terms. One may serve as a specimen of the
whole :

"Aiay 11, 1847.

" My dear Mrs. Stacey,—lf you think you caa endea-
vour to get as tar as Kentish-town some day this week,
I need not say how phased I should be to see you.
Perhaps Friday would be agreeable to you ; if so, write
me a line. Saturday and Sunday I shall be disengaged,
if convenient to you.—Yours sincerely,
" E. HACKER"

Cross-examined by Mr. Ballantine—My name is
Shaw. Stacey is a name I assume. The first child
I had isjlegitimate. The gentleman by whom I had
it keepffneglp to the present time. I know a Mr.
Gregory. 1- have known him six or seven years. He
is a solicitor. I knew him before the birth of the
first child, but he was not the father of my first child.
had no improper intimacy with him before that
time.

Mr. Ballantine—You have represented yourself
as a Mrs. Stacey, and have stated that you were
under the protection of a person of that name. Now
will you swear that you do not know any person of
that name in the position to you you have described?
Complainant—l do not. It is merely an assumed
name. I would not have the real name of the gen-
tleman with whom I have been intimate, and who has
protected me, known for the world.
Re-examined by Mr. Price—Up to July, 1847, I
never had any improper intimacy with Mr. Gregory.
No other person but Hacker was improperly intimate
with me up to the latter end of July or beginning of
August. lam not alluding to any previous intimacy
with Mr. Stacey.
Johanna Morrison, servant to the complainant,
proved that Mr. Hacker was in the habit of visiting
complainant about the months of May, June, and
July.
Cross-examined—Another gentleman used to come.
He was fair-haired. He was a good-looking gentle-
man ; so was the other gentleman, for the matter
of that.

In answer to inquires from Mr. BRODERIP, witness
said she first entered the service about the Ist of May.
Mr. Gregory was the first of the two gentlemen she
saw there, but on the occasion of the visit he did not
stay then all night. He merely stayed for two or
three hours in the front parlour.
Mrs. Charlton, a garrulous old monthly nurse, who
had attended the complainant in her confinement,
was put into the witness-box, and in the course of
her evidence created considerable merriment in Court.
She said she went to Mr. Hacker with the child when
it was three weeks old, and took him some tooth
brushes, and a letter written by complainant.
Mr. Price—What did you say to him? The
nurse (setting the child which she held in her arms
upright) replied :—" I have brought you your babby
for you to see."
Mr. Ballantine—Did he seem much delighted ?
(Laughter).—Nurse—So, he did not seem much de-
lighted. I said, lam sure a beautiful child like this
any man ought to be proud of.—(Much laughter.)
Mr. William Gregory, a solicitor, who had been
summoned to give evidence by the opposite party,
was then called by Mr. Price, and although, in the
course of his evidence, cautioned by Mr. Broderip as
t,) the peril in which he was placed, and told that he
was not bound to answer some of the questions, ex-
pressed his willingness to answer any interrogatory,
and did so throughout without any apparent hesita-
tion.

In his examination by Mr. Price he said, I have
known the complainant five or six years. I visited
her at Ebury- street and Kentish-town from 1841 to
1846. No improper intimacy ever occurred between
us until five or six weeks after the 28th of June last.
I slept in the parlour, and it was the first time I ever
knew she had any improper intimacy with any man.
I was told by her that she was in the family way.
She told me in the presence of Miss Green on the
28th of June.
In answer to an inquiry from Mr. BRODERIP, Mr.
Gregory declared that, on his solemn oath, he had no
improper intimacy with complainant until five weeks
after the 28th of June last.
Mr. BRODERIP observed that the case had been
gone into very fully. As far as the complainant's
evidence went alone, he did not think that any very
great reliance was to be placed upon it ; but he must
take the whole case, and had it not been for the pre-
sence of 3r.G r
been n
Gregory actothsideecroaubt,
dhoeubmtustnaedmfeiltt
there mightl have
bound, however, to adjudge Mr. Hacker to be the
was
wrong of the child. If the parties considered he
wrong in his judgment, he sould be most happy for
to take the sense
them of another court by appealing
again
12s. cost!.
st the order, which was 2i. 6d. per week with

SOYER'S NEW SAUCES.
Th
e great Napoleon of Gastronomy, the man who has,
Soyer
oker
by bringing. the lights of chemistry to bear on the art of
preparing viands for the food of man, raise
from an art to the dignity of a science, M. y has
invented a sauce (or rather two sauces), sauce succulente
(one pour les Messieurs, and another pour les .Dames), in
comparison with which all other sauces are ' stale, dull,
flat, and unprofitable." There is a warmth and flavour
about the sauce succulente of Soyer which gives a ze.t to
bottle containing appetite and imparts a relish to chop, steak, cold meat,
?r whatever other comestible it may be used with, which
is quit© is most piquant and delicious. A very small quantity is
Reform CI
an
otegant specimen of
t() impart the most delicious flavour. The
ohtasadded immensely his inventi%
as a.
TnZt:t.illillg' the sauce too is worthy of all praise
painent to the table. The great chef of the
"art manufacture." It
to his reputation by
the sauce succulente.

LIB ULvtarrom SANDS.-The Lancaster Guar.
dian says that the Lords of the Admiralty have given
their consent to the construction of an embankment from
the Cartmel side of the Mverston Sande to the Back
Scarri, tarice of obcAit three-quarters of a mile,
GOOD ADVICE.—A Sunday paper contains the fol-
lowing notice to correspondents:—In newspaper corre-
spondence, as in business generally, it should be borne
in mind that " short accounts make very long friends."

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY.
AFTERNOON SITTING.
At the re-assembling of the delegates yesterday after-
noon, there were only twenty-four present; Mr. Dixon,
the newly elected chairman, presided:
The first business was the election of a person to take
money at the gallery entrance, and also the election of
a cheque-taker.
The CHAIRMAN said he had received a communication,
stating that Mr. John Askill had been elected a delegate
at a meeting of 600 persons held at Swindon (Wilts).
A Finance Committee, an Agitation Committee, to
superintend the holdiag of meetings in the London
district, and to arrange as to the attendance of delegates
at them, and also a General Business Committee, were
then elected.
Captain O'BRIEN (Dublin), who had been appointed
by the Irish Confederation to attend the Assembly, in
accordance with an invitation sent to that effect, here
rose and proceeded to make a statement, but spoke in
so low a tone of voice that scarcely a word was audible.
On a vote of thanks being proposed to him, several
delegates objected, observing that it was absurd to do so
when not a sentence of the captain's speech was clearly
,BMr'iDeno,us anenme
mouffneirneadtinton, explain the substance of
understood, whereupon
wihich was to the follow.
tDr. eGr°ff.
oeyc
et -n n hn at to tf h e
thisco
nn
nd tni ot
rny ohf
ad
e Irelandnrn n we
na
es e sdu ca hr
ut ht
ha t.
less prosecution against the best and bravest of her ser- '
vents, who were now entirely in their hands and would be
dealt with in the most cruel and blood-thirsty manner.
That Mr. O'Brien had consulted his own lawyer as to
the effect of the Convention Act, and was informed that,
under exsiting circumstances, it would not be prudent for
the Confederation to send delegates to that assembly.
That he was of opinion that very great danger
might result, not only to Ireland but to this
country, provided they did not carry on their
agitation with firmness and prudence ; and that an
active agitation would have the effect of distracting the
attention of their common enemy, and prevent the
Government throwing its whole strength upon unhappy
Ireland. He (Dr. M'Douall) entirely agreed with the
opinion of Captain O'Brien, for he believed that the
Government wished nothing better than that the As-
sembly should cease their agitation, and allow them to
concentrate their powers on Ireland.
A vote of thanks was then carried with great una-
nimity.
A DELEGATE said he sincerely believed that it was not
the intention of Government to bring that Assembly
under the operation of the Convention Act.
The CHAIRMAN said, the next most important business
to be taken up by the Assembly was to consider some
and
faithfully whereby their proceedings might be properly
faithfully conveyed to the public.
A moti
motion
ny
ovedarbnyaey,l CtA3ther
Mr.
should enter into an arrangement with the proprietors
seconded was then
SHAW,snw, inaf Barnsley, tataAss" dsemabnly
of some one of the daily papers, to secure a full and
correct report of the proceedings.
he Tory press was lauded as having acted more
A good deal of discussion ensued, during which
tfairly and openly with the Chartists than the
other political organs, and the Morning Post
alluded to as giving the fullest and fairest reports.
The Northern Star came in for a share of abuse, a dele
gate observing that its proprietor had very materially
injured the cause, and that Mr. O'Connor was un•
worthy of their support. Ultimately the original mo-
tion was withdrawn, and one passed appointing a
committee to inquire into the best means of obtaining a
fair and full report, and requesting them to report the
result of their inquiries to the Assembly.
A certificate was read by the Chairman, in accord-
ance with the resolution passed in the morning, appoint-
ing Mr. M'Carthy a delegate for Finsbury and the city
of London.
A lengthy discussion also ensued upon this subject,
upon a motion of Mr. T. Clarke being made, that Mr.
M'Carthy's credentials be returned, and the election be
considered null and void.
Mr. ADAMS stated that the meeting which elected Mr.
M'Carthy consisted of only 200 persons, and was held in
a small room; neither had proper notice been given of
the meeting.
Mr. M'CARTHY contended that he bad been properly
elected, and attributed the opposition against his taking
his seat to one or two delegates who entertained some
personal hostility towards him because he held extreme
opinions. He had no wish to remain in the Assembly,
however, if they thought he was not entitled to a seat
as a delegate.
The discussion terminated by a motion that the cer-
tificate was not satisfactory, the meeting not having been
held in accordance with the resolutions laid down for
the conducting of elections, which was carried by a
majority of three upon being put to the Assembly.
Mr. M'Carthy resigned his seat and left the hall be-
fore the resolution was passed, apparently much an-
noyed.
The Assembly shortly afterwards separated.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 1.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
The reports upon the following Bills were further
considered and ordered to be engrossed :
Birkenhead Dock Company Bill.
Brighton Gas Light and Coal Company Bill.
D. rby Waterworks Bill.
Manchester General Cemetery Bill.
Petitions were presented by—Mr. GRANGER,
from a tradesman residing in Durham, praying for
an alteration in the County Courts Act;
Mr. DUNCAN, from Scottish congregations,
praying the House to pass come measure to enable
them to obtain sites for building churches ;
Mr. BAINES, from the magistrates of a town in
Yorkshire, in favour of the Bill for regulating the
proceedings of special and petty sessions;
Mr. FITZROY, against the Public Health Bill,
from Lewes ;
Mr. G. THOMPSON, from Folkestone, praying
that Jill matters in dispute between this country and
other nations should be referred to arbitration ; and
from Stepney, praying for the removal of the tax
upon land in India employed in the development of
agriculture ;
Lord DRUMLANRIG, from Dumfries, against
the Bill for establishing Diplomatic Relations with
the Court of Rome ;
Mr. EWART, from Dundee and other places,
praying for the adoption of some measure to prevent
the desecration of the Sabbath and the running of the
mails upon that day ;
ISRAELI, from the parish of St. Elizabeth,
in Mthe r. 'lsland of Jamaica, praying for relief ; from
Long Crendon, in favour of a repeal of the Poor Re-
moval Act; from Eton and Brill, in favour of re-
trenchment in the national expenditure ; from the
Lodges of Odd Fellows in the towns of Newport
Pagnel, Burnham, Fenny Stratford, Stony Stratford,
Wolverton,
praying
other friendly societies; from Brill and Chipping
Norton, in favour of the Bill for removing the Jewish
disabilities ; and from Bicester, against. the system
of direct taxation ;
Mr. BERN AL, from Rochester, signed by the
Mayor, on behalf of a public meeting against the
Pottersbury, and Leighton Buzzard,
for
the same legal security as enjoyed by
Public Health Bill ;
Sir R. H. INGLIS, from various places, against
the Jewish Disabilities Bill ;
Mr. HAMILTON, from a number of parishes in
the north of Ireland, against the present system of
national education.
TADCASTER AND_HALTON DIAL TURN-

PIKE ROAD BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
LEICESTER CEMETERY BILL.
The Lords' amendments to this Bill were consi-
dered and agreed to.
EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND)

Mr. BARKLY tendered his most cordial thanks
to the Government for their kindness in coming for-
ward to assist the colony. He would remind the
House that the West India islands had contributed
a large sum of money towards the relief of the
destitute in Ireland last year. Interchanges of
this kind were equally honourable to both par-
ties, and would form, he believed, the best link
between the colonies and the mother country. With
respect to the question put by the Hon. Member for
Sunderland (Mr. Hudson), he did not think that
there was any risk attending the advance of this
money to the island, because he believed that the
revenues of the islands were never in a more pros-
perous condition, owing to the prosperous state of the
labouring population.
The vote was then agreed to.

IMMIGRATION OF FREE LABOURERS
INTO THE WEST INDIES.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
rose to move a vote of 200,000/. for the purpose of the
immigration of free labourers to the islands of Trinidad
and Guiana. He believed that all were aware of the
importance attached to the immigration of free labourers
to the West Indies on the coast of Africa, and the
object of this rote was to further that immigration, and
to defray the expenditure that had already taken place,
which he believed was about 166,0001.

Mr. BARCLAY said, it might perhaps appear un-
grateful on his part, but he felt bound to tell the Go •
vernment that the loan would not enable the island to
compete with those colonies where free-labour sugar
was produced. This loan was the only measure that
her Majesty's Government could introduce for the
benefit of the colonies, but he hoped the House would
not labour under the impression that temporary ex-
pedients of this nature were calculated to improve
in any material way the condition of the colonies.
At all events he was quite convinced that they would
never enable the colonies to compete with
slave-growing states; and he, therefore, trusted that
the time was not far distant when the House
would condescend to take into its serious con-
sideration the present deplorable state of
the colonies. How was it that the colonists could
not raise this money upon their own security ? Why,
simply because an impression prevailed that the
colonies were to be left to their fate, and were never
more to be taken under the fostering care of that House.
The House should not think that it was doing an act
of great generoffity in voting this grant.
Mr. HU AIE agreed with a great portion of the
Hon. Gentleman's address, but particularly with that
portion of it in which he stated that the colonies
had been greatly injured by the mismanagement
of the Colonial-office ; but he rose to
oppose the grant on other grounds, and he should
divide upon it. By the rules of the House no money
should be spent by the Government without the
consent of the House, except in cases of extreme
emergency, like that for which the 5,0001.
was voted ; but since 1844 the Colonial-office
had entered into negotiations with the colo-
nies by which the House had been pledged to
vote large sums of money for their use. For instance,
when the Court of Policy of Trinidad desired to raise a
loan and could not do so, the Colonial-office stepped
into their aid, and pledged the House to in-
demnify them. It was utterly fallacious—it was
a perfect delusion to suppose that, as these
colonies were situated at present they would
ever be enabled to repay ls. of any sum
that might be lent to them. There was a
time when they could have done so, but their credit
was now gone, and such: was the deplorable financial
condition of the colony, that the Government had
been compelled to curtail their expenses by reducing
the emoluments of their servants. Therefore, if they

advanced the money, they might as well do so as
a grant, for none of it would ever be repaid.
The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone)
was not lesss culpable than any of his predecessors,
for he sanctioned the immigration of coolies at an ex-
pense which he pledged this country to defray by
loan. He 01r. Hume) wished to see the colonies
left to their own management, and free from the in-
fluence of the Colonial-office; let them employ
whom they liked, pass what laws they liked, and
pay what salaries they liked; do not interfere
with them, but make them responsible to the
mother country. He, therefore, begged to move
that the grant be postponed until the report of the
Committee on West Indian Affairs was before the
House, and they were informed of the intentions of
the Government respecting them.
Mr. GL ADSTONE confessed that the repayment
of the money would be questionable, and agreed
with the Hon. Gentleman that as a matter of economy
the best way to bring that about was to leave matters
to the transaction of the colonists themselves.—
(Hear.) Whatever gratitude the West Indian
islands owed for the aid afforded by the Government,
or whatever responsibility attached to it, neither he
nor Lord Stanley were to blame, as it was not afforded
during the time they held office.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that it was perfectly correct that the present propo-
sition did not originate with the late Government,
but they adopted the measure for the immigration of
the coolies into the West Indies, out of which the
necessity for the present loan originated.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said that whatever might be
the opinian with respect to the recent equiliaation of
the duty on sugar, it had been productive of the greatest
of evils to the West Indian colonies. Notwithstand-
ing the injuries the colonists had sustained, he believed
that they still entertained the best feelings towards the
mother country, and he thought that the House would
be only acting right in agreeing to advance the sums
which were required for the purpose of mitigating the
evils under which the colonies were at present suffering.
He trusted that there would be no opposition to thi,.
grant. If the colonies were compelled to pay all their
expenses, they would cease to look upon this country
in a parental light.
Mr. ROBINSON thought that the House of
Commons ought not to be called upon to vote
200,0001. for the purpose of immigration before it had
the report of the Emigration Committee. For aught
they knew the report of that Committee might be
against any further emigration to these colonies, and
on such doubt it was rather too bad to take out of
the pockets of the hard working people of this
country so large a sum as 200,000/.
Mr. HUME called upon the Government to post-
pone this vote for a short time in order to enable the
llouse to have before it the report of the West India
Committee.
Mr. WILSON thought there was very little
chance of the report of the West India Committee
being laid on the table of the House for some weeks
to come.
Mr. HERRIES said that he would not enter into the
question of responsibility, and as to the amount of the
sum proposed, 166,0001., it was hardly worth while dis-
puting about it. He believed that the expenses were
usefully incurred; and had it not been for the informal
nature of the documents, the colonists would have given
security for the sum themselves. The nature of the
expenses was twofold; expenses already incurred, and
expenses to which they should be liable in order to
enable the colonies to carry on the system of immigra-
tion, pending the reception of the report. It would be
partly the duty of the Committee to decide whether such
a system should be upheld; and if the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would confine his vote to the sum of 166.0001,
and would leave out that part of it which was prospect
tire, he would be quite prepared to support him. But
if he insisted upon the whole sum, then he should be
disposed to vote with the Hon. Member for Montrose.
They had been told that they were not to expect the
report for two or three weeks; well, if such were the
case, the question was not such an important one that it
could not be adjourned until that time.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he had not the slightest wish to pledge the House to
any expenditure over that which had been already in-
curred. The objection which he had to confining the
amount of the vote had been given by his Noble Friend.
They could not tell the precise amount of their liabilities,
and he might have come down to the House and asked the
House at a future day for a further sum of two, three,
or four thousand pounds. He was perfectly ready to
pledge himself that no additional expenditure should
take place until the sense of the House bad been taken
upon the subject.
Mr. BARKLY said, that when the first intimation
was given of this grant, Lord Grey wrote a dispatch to
the Governor of British Guiana, authorising him to
draw drafts for the purposes of African immigration.
Dr. BOWRING said that the authority of the Go-
verntnent had been given for the outlay of a very large
sum of money before the sanction of the House had been
obtained for such a proceeding—a course which was
exceedingly irregular.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAWES said that the question lay in a very
narrow compass, and if it was possible to fix any precise
cover for the expenditure, he was of opinion that would
be very desirable. The history of the transaction was
simply this:—ln 1844 Lord Stanley yielded to the press-
ing solicitations of the West Indian colonists, and as-
sented to this proposition on the assurance that they
would make good the expenses that had been incurred.
Matters remained thus when his Riot Hon . Friend, Mr.
Gladstone, accepted office, and he, on the same assu-
rance, consented t-) a continuance of the system, and
immigration ordinances were passed, both in British
Guiana and Demerara. These ordinances were per-
vaded with great defects, limiting, as they did, the rate
of interest on the capital to be raised. The consequence
must, however, be the stoppage of immigration until the
necessary funds were raised by the colonies. British
Guiana had raised upwards of 100,0001., which was
expended in the payment of the then existing lia-
bilities ; and Trinidad furnished a sum of 50,000/.,
which was spent in a similar way. Such was the state
of circumstances when, in the course of last year,
Lord Grey gave his sanction to the policy thus
introduced, and the colonies incurred liabilities to the
extent of 166,0001.—that was to say, so far as was yet
known.—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Hume.) The figures
here stated showed the amount of debt which they were
actually aware had been contracted ; but in order to
guard against unlimited liability, or any unwise expen-
diture on the part of the colony, the whole sum proposed
by Lord Grey, to bo allotted in the manner in question,
was limited to 200,000/. Of this 166,000/. had been
actually expended, and the liability might probably
F1201.111t to 10,0004, or ;0,0004 owe, always, bower.

keeping within the 200,000/. If this vote were to be
postponed, then the effect would be to put an immediate
stop to cooly immigration. The line of policy which
would be advanced by the House assenting to his pro-
posal was one which had been sanctioned by three
successive Governments. At present the colonies of
Jamaica, Trinidad, and Demerars, were pressing for a
supply of labour from the coast of Africa (as we under-
stood), and, accordingly, a number of liberated Africans
had been conveyed to our West Indian colonies, instead
of being taken to Sierra Leone or other settlements on
the African coast, while no further contract for the
conveyance of hill coolies would be entered into. The
200,0001. now asked for would, it was thought, cover
all the expenses which had been incurred, and no further
sum would or could be demanded.
Mr. CARDWELL said that there were two questions
before the Committee. The Honourable Gentleman
opposite had spoken truly when he said that successive
Secretaries of State had sanctioned the immigration el
coolies. So far one of the questions in discussion was
disposed of. But that which remained was a question
of advancing our credit for the promotion of this immi-
gration—a policy which successive Secretaries of Stwe
had not sanctioned.—(Hear, hear.) It was true that
Lord Stanley in 1844 had sanctioned immigration upon
the credit of the colonies, and his Right Honourable
Friend near him had pursued the same course of policy.
Again, last year, the colonies were empowered to raise
money upon their own credit, but with a pledge that it
should be guaranteed by the credit of this country. But
this was the first time that they had been called upon to
consider whether they should pledge the credit of the
empire to guarantee the credit of the colonies.—
(Hear, hear.) At present there was a Committee
sitting which had presented to the House, in six
successive reports, all the evidence taken before it, and
which was now about to deliberate upon its final report.
If that Committee should report that the West India
colonies were so much depressed that we ought to come
forward with the guarantee of this country, then the
question might be legitimately considered ; wail if the
House should decide in favour of the claims of the
colonies, he hoped they would be well aware that the
step which they would be then about to take was no un-
importunt one.—(Hear, hear.) The credit of the coun-
try was the property of the country, and the House
ought to be as careful of pledging the country's credit
as they would be chary of advancing its money. Let
them beware, then, of taking this important step in a
hurry. Let them limit the vote to be now granted to
the amount which they knew had been actually ex-
pended, and let them, at all events, refrain from pledg-
ing the credit of the country for the debts of the people
until the report of the Committee sitting upon the sub-
ject had been laid before the 11,Juse.—(Hear.)
Mr. T. BARING observed, that some expectations
had been held out to the colony that a portion of this
money was to be applied to African emigration. With
respect to the sums already expended, as he understood
the matter, the Government had chartered vessels, made
themselves responsible fur the freight, taking the guaran•
tee of the colonies for repayment; and therefore he
contended that the country was bound to make good the
debt. The 40,0001. not yet—so tar as was known—
expended, might be required for the further immigration
of a coloured population into our colonies. The House
was advised, however, to incur no expense further than
the debt which had been already contracted. The Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Liverpool had contended
against Parliament guaranteeing further expeuditure,
because by doing so it would be involving itself in an
unfair system of giving its credit to the colonies. But
that system had been already sanctioned by the measure
passed with reference to Canada.—(Hear.) The credit
of this country was extended in favour of Canada, when
it was in a distressed condition, and to say that the ex
pense which might be incurred in promoting imwigra
Lion ought not to be now guaranteed, was to urge a
doctrine directly in violation of the promises made to
the West India colonies, but still only of a piece with
that severe legislation to which they had been so long
subjected.—(Hear, hear.)

icir. R. HILDYARD" said that 166,0001. had been
expended under the expectation that the colony would
be able to repay it. That expectation had not, however, '
been fulfilled, and the amount would become a bad debt
incurred by the Imperial Government, In voting the
sum in question, therefore, they were only making pro-
vision for expenses actually incurred, taking all the se-
curities which the colonies could give for the repayment
of the money. Therefore, as regarded the 166,0001., it
appeared to him that we were only paying a sum for
which we had made ourselves liable, but for the repay
went of which by the parties primarily benefited we held
all the securities we could cbtain or they could give.
Lord J. RUSSELL (who spoke in a very kw tone,
and was very indistinctly heard in the gallery) said that
when he was Secretary for the Colonies he had
always advised the Crown to refuse any sanction to
those loans. He had done so not so much upon impe-
rial as upon colonial grounds; at the same time, how-
ever, that he thought it unadvisable for the Govern-
ment to mortgage its revenues, and incur the de-
ficit thereby occasioned. When Lord Stanley and
the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite were Secretaries
for the Colonies, they sanctioned loans for the purposes
of immigration. to be raised by the colonies; and the
interest, until repayment, to be defrayed by the colonies.
They did not contemplate that either the credit or the
resources of this country would be required for the
purpose of raising these loans. But it so happened,
for these loans had been made and great expenses in•
curred—expenses voted by the Colonial Legislatures and
sanctioned here by the Crown—after great exrnses had
been incurred, and after orders had been sent out for the
immigration of coolies to the West Indian colonies—that
hese colonies fell into such a state of distress that it be
came difficult for them to raise loans. The money market
here, indeed, was in such a state, that they found it im-
possible to raise loans; and under these circumstances it
became a question for the present Government whether
they would not aid the colonies—distressed as they
were—with respect to the liabilities thus incurred.
Now, it was, no doubt, competent for Parliament to
say that they would reject any such proposal; but
such rejection would not, he thought, be fair to the
colonies, and would not be consistent with the manner
in which Parliament had generally acted after Ministers
had declared that they thought that the credit of
this country ought to be employed in helping the colo-
nies to raise the means for supplying themselves with
that amount of labour—confessedly necessary for their
prosperity. The Right Honourable Gentleman the
Member for Stamford (Mr. Ilerries) had, he thought,
in principle laid down a fair distinction; and if that dis-
tinction could be carried out into practice, he should see
no objection to its application. The Right Honourable
Gentleman contended that the sums already actually
expended should be voted at once, but that the conside-
ration of the expenses which were now proceeding should
be deferred until the House should have had the report
of the Committee now sitting upon the subject. If any
practical distinction of the id could be made between
the sums proposed to be voted, he (Lord John Russell)
would be willing to carry it into effect. The sum ac
tually spent was 166.0001., and it did not seem to him ti
be of very great importance whether they took a sum
rather beyond that, which might probably be required,
or whether they took a vote for a sum under the amount,
and came to Parliament again for the balance, whatever
it might be. He repeated that he was indifferent as to
which course was taken.—(Hear, hear.) The Honour-
able Member for Huntingdon (Mr. T. Baring) had
ha thought, mistaken his Right Honourable Friend
near him, when he (Mr. T. Baring) stated that be-
cause a Government were not ready to eater into
new loans, acc,rding to the plan stated in the early
part of the session, and announced by Lord Grey in u
dispatch to the colonies, that therefore they were ready
to abandon a scheme advantageous to the West Indies.
He (Lord John Russell) did not think that his Hon.
Friend meant to convey any such impression, and at all
events such were not the intentions of her Majesty's
Government. What his Right Honourable Friend in-
tended to convey was, that he agreed to the postpone-
ment suggested by the Roght Honourable Gentleman
the Member for Stamford, until about three weeks
hence, when the report of the Committee upon the sub-
ject would be on the table of the House. For his own
part, whether the Committee agreed to the vote of
160,000/. or to that for the larger sum, he considered to
be a matter of little moment. Indeed, between the
views taken by himself, and those urged by the Right
Honourable Gentleman the Member for Stamford, there
was, so far as principle went, no substantial difference.
Mr. HERRIES asked the Chairman to read the
clause, which was done.
The, CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex-
plained that the colonies had received certain sums of
money, for the repayment of which they were liable.
The colonies proposed to raise the necessary amount by
loans sanctioned by the Home Government. They found,
however, that that could not be effected, owing to the
present state of the money market. The proposal, there-
fore, now was, to lend to the colonies that which they
could not borrow elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUDSON thought that the money actually ex•
pended might now be voted, while the Government could
come to the House again for the amount for which
liabilities might be still incurred.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
170,0001. might be taken on that account.
Mr. HUME protested against a Colonial
Minister
pledging the credit of the country, and bringing it into
debt. In 1844 Lord Stanley had directed ships to be
hired, coolies to be conveyed, and bills to be drawn on
the colonies for the amount. The colonists, however,
not being able to realise any loans, the bills remained
unpaid, and Government was now called upon to inter-
fere. Expenses might, however, be yet accumulating,
and before he consented to vote a single shilling, orders
should be sent out to put a stop to the system.
Mr. HAWES was understood to intimate that this
had been done.
Mr. HUME continued—ln that case he wished to see
the whole of the correspondence, in order that he might
judge hoW far the present Government had encouraged
the contraction of liabilities. He found in the papers
already on the table a dispatch from Earl Grey, dated
" Downing street. February 16th," in which the Noble
Lord state I that Government had determined to advance
200,0001. to the West Indian colonies. Now, no Secre
Lary of State had a right to say anything of the sort.
He would have been as much justified in saying that
Government had determined to increase the income-tax
by five per cent. The dispatch in question went on to
say that in case of any difficulty being experienced in
' pros iding for the payment of freight and bounties, the
colonies would be at liberty to draw upon the Commis-
sioners of Colonial Lands and Emigration. Now, what
he wished the House at present. to do was,to postpone
.the
question until the report of the Committee should be
before it; while in the mean time the whole of the corre-
spondence on the subject might be got ready and pro-
duced. If they were to pay what was already spent, let
a stop be put to the system for the future. With these
, views, he begged to Move that tha,Chairman report pro-
. gresi, th'e object of the delay being to postpone the dis-
cussion for a week, until Buy had all the d curnents re-
lating to the subject before them. The conduct of Ali•