The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-17 00:00:00

ns of, used to remark :—" There will be some more
stack-burning in Cie district." He had no peculiar obe
jectinn to strong language ; he thought that it
Sometimes added to the interest of the debate,
and he was perf‘ctly indifferent to the hard mimes
which were heaped upon the agricultural body, of which
he was a member. At the :acne time, he felt that he
had not terms strong enough to use in condemnation of
the violent language which sometimes led to so much
mischief in the country. The Right Hon. Baronet at
the head of the Government had brought forward certain
measures which he intended a 3 a compensation for the
withdrats al of protection from land. Ele would
that these measures mere no compensation, and 1'
they did give any, the difficulty of aseertainieA
the benefit it would confer would be enormous, as they wont'
have to ascertain the precise loss which the withdrawal of
pro-
tection would cause, and the precise gain which the diminntio;
of taxation would afford to the English farmer. He
could
then turn to another question, and he thought that if it
not be shown that the impositions on the protection of corn le
foreign countries were commensurate with the imposition o'it
real property in this couutry, they would fail to shove with
British-grown corn was in a condition to compete :,
foreign corn. He had seen some attempts tea render tnt
assertion a fact to the minds of the people, but he thought I'd
would be extremely improbable that any such attempt able
succeed. If they were to take the whole amount 01.aed
taxes imposed upon towns, or what were properly ca'"es
civic rates, and would compare them with the corn that
or department districts in France, they would fine hos' a
taxes imposed in that country stood as five to four with tots
which were laid on the inhabitants of cities and towns here. , t,
was no fair comparison with the impositions in France, P,l,
they would find that it was not quite so high as that in Fig;
land.— (Hear, hear.) That was not the way. to put
for
case—they ought to take the amount of costs imposed
realising the produce of one hundred acres of land in en,
country and the amount of costs imposed for obtaininge:e ,
hundred acres in the other country, and if they could show ""ti
amount was the same they would make out a g ind
ease. But by this mode of calculation they 1;!°
double
find that in England the cost was nearly in
that in France, that in the German States it was more fban,;;,
that proportion, and that in Turkey and some parts of finee-a
it only bore the proportion of two in a hundred. It was "e° e.at
notorious that Great Britain was taxed in a far r
degree than in any other foreign state, at least .1.7
Europe. He bad now come to his concltiavw
and he felt compelled to say a few words with respect to hlnt's
self. He had always conceived that the system of proteeti°o
was absolutely required by the peculiar burdens imposed Wu,
land ; yet, if he found the continuance of that imposition was,ybis °:fe
trary to the tendency of public opinion—that it way like
ra se one class in opposition to another, he should feel it
duty to refrain from further opposition to the measure, le
instead of wrapping himself up in a sulky humour, and sag;
eating the evil of domestic schism, he would endeavoubie
pacify the conflicting feelings, and he trusted his l'ivet,
mends would use their powerful influence in IV/ pence
ing that hostile disposition and unnecessary diner' at,
which might arise between the manufacturer and fitfulet
The Noble Lord then conOnued—My Lords, I have nelef
joined in the abuse of the Rigi.t Hon. Baronet at the hero,
convictions—l believe that he Ll'
her Majesty's Government. I believe in the sincerity 01 g0r.,,,
the best in the measure he proposes. I respect his lay,.
eerity—l respect his courage. But this I will ,it ,
inks he is doing
sip,
that if in the present Parliament he carries this moaneoo
will not be the triumph of opinion, but the triumnb gip
tisanship—l say, not the triumph of opinion, because helot
have carried it against the opinion of the country, as decsiatt
at the last election ; he will have carried it against
the opinion of the House of Commons, jes decsiest
in various divisions ; he will have earned it "goes
the opinion of the House of Lords, as also delared on nunaffit
divisions ; but lastly, and above all, he will have carrieGrest
defiance of the opinion of a majority of the Cabinet.--4 the
cheering.) I say, my Lords, that I shall submit te tast
triumph of opinion. Let the Government look t° let
point ; let them appeal to the country; „re;
them ask what the opinions of the country
let them follow that up by securing a majority leo,
opinions in the House of Commons, and again in this lauds°
arid I myself will no longer offer a factious opposition t°
measure.—(Cheers.) I believe that then your Lordships do
no longer( oppose it ; and if that shall be Is of
case, it will be in the fullest sense a trinnlire
0
opinion, but as it now stands it is merely an able manten'
party politics.—( Great cheering.) eat 01
Lord BROUGHAM rose to second the motion, ee sew
called to order by the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, ce"%tice
that in that House it was not necessary that anY
should be seconded.
On the question being put, t°
Lord BROUGHAM said that he wished only to sPei,ioals
their Lordships a very few words, in answer to his 'pith
Friend who had made mention of his name in connesientroog
the opinions he had expressed in 1820. Far from d' ba
.0i)
from the motion of his Noble Friend, he (Lord nr°°,geleif
considered that the burdens lie had enumerated fell Win", W
upon the land, and he went even further, for he waste ereetoe
indeed from taking his views on the subject of the et the
land-tax. Ile did not admit, with the Noble Lord, etileens•
land-tax or the poor-rates were not peculiar oe
heisg
He did not wish to enter upon the subject to-night, there i''tf not
no opposition to the motion of the Noble Lord. He lissiosF
therefore follow that Noble Lord, or enter upon the disc't-delts
as the consequence would be to anticipate that which Is
brought under their Lordships' consideration in a short ti_wosiais
was not his desire to bring about a foregone conclusion in!upoo
pation of the inquiry whieh must shortly takeplace. To eete'f tbbj
the discussion now would be to forejudge the labours be
Committee. He would go into Committee, though :4 or
entertained the opinions which he held in 1820 and I°l4ls
specting the burdens upon land. He differed with the Nob
Lord in a considerable degree. He thought that the blm'ieso
on land were not only greater in some respect' were
he had represented them, but also there d 00t
burdens in some material particulars which b$ toss
been referred to—still, though admitting the grefaireos
of these burdens, he did not agree in the conclusions faof
by the Noble Lord, namely, the proposition that the jot/
mode of compensation was by taxing corn by imPcsi,,ng ;id
on the importation of foreign grain.—( Hear, hear.) "3° 0 Rod
not anticipate the corn-law debate by snatching a
question before their Lordships. The question of the
rceo
would be brought before them properly, timely, and g.°
as soon as the measure came from the other liouStt„ Roe
must say in the present inquiry he greatly lamented.t_°olll'
ing out of view, iii bis opinion, the greatest of all tos,itios,
sive burdens of land. 'What he referred to was the co:11.0'
of the landowners and farmers, which was different
.f
other kind of employers. They had not the power e!..ery sof
into the labour market, and selecting the cheapest, aboltoo, e_
workmen. The manufacturers had amongst hens 7„
that patriarchial relationship which existed .I",rore
agricultural district. They could turn eef the!! tie;
d_ ebateroo.loo
men in a day, whether they had been 1" at 1
service a year or ten years. They could tarn then' iter stabe
time if they (the manufacturers)- were able to get behalf
cheaper workmen. It was not so with the farrnets",,,•
labourers they employed were employed upon what be so,
Brougham) called the patriarchial relation, and theY °fear's,
ployed a great number of workmen when they role P bog
supply of labour at half the price. 1,'!„, bt,o43s
Botts of the poor-law did not alone impose to'i;ed J'es,
arose from a feeling of attachment to those wh° aietsto
been engaged in the service of the farmers in the e_ae of „pi
of the soil. No one felt stronger than he did the for Teri eer
particular burden. When a Noble Lord died he &get/.
left eighty thousand pounds or ninety thousand pone
_seedtlee
sonal property, on all of which he paid probate and Ifebis,/stss7l
One word with respect to the stamp duties, to Whieporof Tsts
Friend had referred. There never was a gyeater
ta yea
freest
supposing that the late improvements which dle
in the law were not beneficial to the landed Merest,lle, °sot
did they think of the abolition of fines and recoveries 1,,000/. bpl
self, knew one landowner who had saved betseee°''d 'OlO4l
6,000/. by,the change, and he had known another frier:4 byte'tee
delayed his recoveries until after the Act of 1832 Vole age isoolf,
he gained a large amount. Then there was theca "leaset
law specting leases. Instead of ten sheets for , oltio
half are
sheet was now required, and instead of ten slocttealerod
a skin was required. There was no additionallo'otiooloer
upon that ; on the contrary there was a large reub, ehedw,
this reduction it was which made many persons deiltthe ch'ive°,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would riot oppos° lee .taste,
He did not, however think it is duty to do 50' St efikelts'
Brougham) certainly thought the landed interest ha;;theiet,ol
complain of the stamp duties, perhaps more thin the
sive burdens. It was worse than the aleavala of sPae aserfhBierost
duties pressed most heavily upon mortgagers, forlt yoteijesee
might, at any time, say to the mortgager " sinefllob it,#)lf
your interest you shall change your securities*, feed tit."
10,000/. or 12,000/." He (Lord Brougham) -1' ;wow"
would not live long before he saw the to on tae'
property replaced by a tax upon succession. pelt Liasti
Lord DACRE (whose remarks in the opeeilse;lo°':esisr
speech were inaudible in the gallery) stated that e ratey,er,
protection to be giving a certain advantage to slste.trfetlo'
application of capital, or giving some encouragerneffleeld„,
to some particular enterprise, which might bett peen";
particular advantage to the country who graded rest Wisi bee.;"
To this protection it was that the agricultural tate. b Os'
etc _A A
He considered, from the great improvements egressoe-.
made, the facilities of communication, and the ostistle
cation of the capital of this country, and frern the
co i
turns which had been made to this House, that tinsth
tection should be removed from the agriculture efe,a, ofr'elti
(Hear, hear.) Heconsidered also that protection ;unwire. lee/
to maintain the balance or equilibrium of the c e 0;10
from circumstances of taxation or some other Ca,‘.lB user
•
of the application of capital had been destroYeabeaa s.fe,
has been destroyed by the protection which has „ orb.'oo titire;
to personal property. beyond all bounds of ree'°.",taild 00
to the e
He would not enter into detail, but would take his a ce
broad basis of the injustice which had been do,nenthed 01°11011
by the imposition of a grinding property-tax, lreL-oeldbe
country in the shape of a poor-law. Justice 11_,
sob*: te,-,
to the farmer by the removal or equalisation_c°;fl
of taxes.—( Hear, hear.) He felt con n
lite with tbs
ge
agriculture of the country was equal to comPe_ tavai
culture of the world. If they were granted ell equal e
application of labour—( Hear, heart—and near „is 1,5
disposal of the products of that laboure;'fftails '-tf, tte
The Noble Lord then went into some statistic/tied 10 safrop.
,t1;11
to the valuation of real prcperty, and prouere!enof tbeb cos
g,-,:at portion of taxation fell upon one-fo
of i72..ogland, to the exclusion of other pro silica sition of ti eloor,s
well et;eitled to be charged. Such was the.eteree, v"‘es,
property e.
.England. What he wanted, t" endue low, 10 (0
and no e ogre
f that were carried out, ty, the opt vie
taxation, ant:
riots of this Ceentry would
of taxation telaced upon real
e foreign ecin4 0 °
tiers the
contend with, but tO overcome the
of
tbe a ,on eet
trnPearble nelt vet °rest
It was not from inadequacy, on the. pea? madr...hcti
theiree7o b the
under the
abolition, but a deep sense of the Ink". '2,, a P" I 0003 0
etoxismtienegt l
at hwes dtehma at ntdhse
yw. h:on.,g
hnvvte
bicb
_7t
o‘,o
iic'ed upon them, by withdraw
the and
t 1,0
to there' There AO
trraexrees
subjected,
ectev:ll:Gshetails°tthtelrioseP:pretai,°l2,';';"aer, hear.2reapdrett es
other parties, were centinueeiishetdne
to refer:
_te`-selves lo.t 4,1
he w
another subject to winz,b blished es, then .
ne •,ad did to eepr titr es
and thousands of persoe die netlike ovals fiao
combination, and although eat it was $° es of rare
he could net forbear saying td,.ofe'e reivisintrgouelY dent I ,e
combination, and as an old frien
no, too to aeotrtitio tl
for ball a century, he could s
were reakinied t" up
-001'1111
the attempt which the person
0.
o,..ctioa.
000400,60310,
liament—to control the freedor,
001
,1 ab ps
after -- ere 0. ightgl'
nomination of counties, and this
et.°o
of
thatyesb
their 'reiveas'
which the laws relating to the ew t
awaro tht ye', .000:
had uedergene, and when Y
the ee-eirved /Nu! foist alike 14°11;,
their elective franchise were soulocoes.....e(
When be saw all this he hope 1 they
these Per- h 1 'd
them hY as beet 111'
wineh were forced upon
o..ss dear
the 010'
Lord, during the whole f „ad
art o
_lYees
tisret gild
the gallery, but during this r
with reit'ion coli'cliaties:
could be caught.) been no cclisuxne wide' f tbose not
duty. There h d
increased populatiletestio 0
riot
coo
viitlv
pared with the
of a vn°`f, almost
was an argument in favour
which with
moat
,a palleieril
Malt was a commt?i:Y werea°2. period
apelv to the rurp.o,e
„.:ctite°o,,,,
had
prod
at o (rdiocri:
out fie.. or 04' "r"' what he ountr nab .00i
,er cent. oninto this v
with taslsple
duty of 3° 1 s iiep?rted titioa t`' toed
If foreign timber was
unfair cornpe to incfe at.
lisble • fbe
'duty, it would bF. at. bad been . to
the grower of wnlc. Se it wee wit
conBequette4 Of it* Qv