The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-16 00:00:00

persons in every place to get them signed. Now he would
not complain at this; but when he considered the system
of intimidatian and menace which prevailed in Ireland, he
must confess that he could not yield to them that respect
which he should pay to the spontaneous end unbiassed ex-
pression of the opinions of the people of Ireland. The
circular also announced that it was about to take mea-
sures for its extension—and that a paper of instruction
would he forwarded to them, according to the suggestions
of Mr. O'Connell, pointing nut tie best method of pro-
ceeding to establish courts of arbitration—nod specially
for the better collection of the national rent.—( Hear.)
These circumstance a, in his opinion, took away much of
that weight which he would otherwise have attached to
the petitions which had been presented to that House. Th..
existence of an association, extending its ramifications into
11 parts of Ireland, allowing nothing to be exempt from
its inquisitorial influence, reporting all its proceed•ns to
one great head and centre in Dublin, and endeavouring to
monopol ze in i a own hands all the functions of Govern
inert—if not in itself abseoutely illegal, must, at least, be
allowed to be totally inconsistent with the due administra-
tion of the laws. The plain quastion as to the course
wt ieh Parliament ought to pursue might he reduced to a
single point. Will this Hou•e permit the association of
Irish votunteem to triumph over convitutional law? He
did not extend these observationa to the disturbances which
had taken place in Ireland ; he allud. d to political agitation,
and to those bodies which he considered inconsistent with
regular Government. He stated this, bee .use he wished
the question to be put clearly and distinctly. The Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin wished to know what ef-
,ect these measures were likely to have upon the question
of the repeal of the Union. Whatever effect they might
have, he believed that Parliament would feel it to he their
duty to suppress these symptoms of diiinrgarCzation—
(Cheers)—and by doing so, he was convinced that they
would suppress that cry for repeal, which was founded on
mere clamour, on the declamation of itinerant avitatora—on
the constant outcry raised against the Sassenagh and the
stranger—on the violent opinions which day by day, and
wesk by week are impressed upon the public mind by
associations and delegates, and which make the question
of the repeal of the Union not a sober matter of opinion and
of calm judgment, but the cry of party and of passion, sup-
ported, he maintained, by vast numbers of the lower classes,
who dared not for their lives hold or express a contrary
opinion—who, he added, if they did frame a different
opinion, dared not express it. If the measure had any
effect upon the repeal of the Union, the suppression of
these abuses would be its effect. If the Bill were despo-
tic, its object was to prevent a more intolerable despo-
tism.—(Cheers.) It was a measure called for by the
whole of the higher classes, by most of the middling
classes—aye, even by many of those who signed petitions
against it, and by a great number of the lowest classes in
Ireland, It was not a measure of despotism and oppres-
sion, but a measure of protection and safety.
Mr. O'CONNELL, amid cries of " Question," ob-
served that it was exceedingly easy to make assertions.
He (Mr. O'Connell) knew Ireland better than the Right
Hon. Gentleman ; and he ought also to have a deeper in-
terest in its prosperity.—(Murmurs.) He did not mean any
offence. He had said he ought to have a deeper interest in
the prosperity of Ireland than the Right Hon. Gentleman.
His only regret was, that the assertions of the Right Hon.
Gentle i,an was taken for proofs—his insinuations were
received as arguments—and his misstatements as con-
vincing reasons of the necessity of establishing a despotism
in Ireland. He would bring the Right Hon. Gentleman's
statements to the test. He had spoken much of the in-
fluence which the volunteers had had in guiding the public
mind with respect to the repeal of the Union; but what
was the fact ? They were established but three weeks
before the sitting of Parliament. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman wished to know his opinion, whether the esta-
blishment of the volunteers was legal or not. In his opi-
nion it was not il'eeal. The Right Hon. Gentleman then
,eked whether such an institution was not dangerous to
the Government, and he was cheered by the House. He
asked whether it was not unsafe for the people, and he
was cheered ; he asked whether it did not interfere with
the administration of the law, and he was cheered—that
is to say, the House was convinced of these three particu-
lars. Now he (Mr. O'Connell) would admit, that if the
association was liable to any one of these objections, it
ought to he suppressed, but the laws possessed sufficient
powers already in that case for suppressing it. The Right
Hon. Gentleman, however, brings no proof of his asser-
tions ; he had not shown that they had influenced juries.
Huzzaing was all very well when they thought they had
a right to put down the liberties of Ireland—(Hear)—
hut what advantage did Ireland ever derive from bar con-
nexion with this country? Again and again she had been
sul+cted to confiscation, to massacre, to oppression, to the
..inlation of all law. This had she derived from tier con-
nexion %sill this country, anal these were things which
had not been done in u ciner. Would any Government
ut that of the Rig' t Hon. Secretary have came down to
the House with such a tale ? The national rent had also
been talked of, :and it appeared that some personal motives
were attributed to him (Mr. O'Connell).
Mr. STANI EY disclaimed any such intention.
Mr. O'CONNELL proceeded—lt had been said that the

lower orders required to be coerced. Do you, he ask, d,
apply a blister to a sore? Do you employ irritation to
bring about tranquillity ? Do you use a scourge to pro-
duce qui-t ? You deceive yourselves. H.-, concluded—
(Ami .st cries of " Hear, hear")—this measure will not
stop the repeal of the Union.
The F-Inioie then divided, when there app. ired—
For the clause
Against it
Majority —232
The Ruse th, a proceeded to the o...spiel-Atm f the
second clause, which proposes to enact that any two cr
more Justices of the Peace should have the power of di,
pt•r•ing any meeting, and that any person contravening their
coder in this respect shill liahle to an imprisonin nt of
three calendar months, and on a second offence for one
whole year.
Mr. O'CONNELL objected to that part of the clause
which authorized M :gistrates to force their way into any
Louse in which they shou!d hive reason to believe that
any prohil ire,' tm eting was h.ld, as being much too
vague, as giving too great a discretion to Magistr awe,
and affording no redress to individuals wrongfully ap
prehended.

Mr S. RICE said, that although the 111a2istrates tnuat
act on their own disciethm, they would be responsible to
,he Lord- I.iewenant of the county.
Mr. SHAW observed, that if Mauistrates were not
considered worthy of confidence, let them be struck out
of tl e comotismion.

Mr. O'CONNELL stated, that he had a further ob-
jection to this clause. By the first clause, ev. ry person
present at a prohibited meeting was to he deemed gui ty
of a misdemeanor, and was to be tried and punished ac
cording to the course of the common law. By the se-
cond clause, any prison who did net d part from such
meeting within a quarter of an hour from the time of the
notice of the Magistr .tes to do so, was to be proceeded
against in a summary way, before any two Justices of the
Peace, and imprisoned for three months, and for a second,
or any subsequent offence, for one year. To this sum-
mary jurisdiction on the part of the Magistrates he most
strongly objected.

Mr. SHEIL was observing, that Hi Maksty's Govern-
treat theicselves showed that they hal no confidence in
llagistratvs by proposing to call in soldiers to execute the
functions of Migistrates, when—

Mr. STANLEY begged pinion for interrupting the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman ; adding, that if the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin acquiesced in the earlier
part of this clause, his Majesty's Government would be
disposed to yi• Id the other point, and to exchange the
summary jurisdiction fur trial by jury.
Mr. O'CONNELL could not acquiesce in any part of
the clause, although he would not have recourse to the
desperate expedient of a division.
On the motion that the clause stand part of the Bill,
Mr. O'CONNELL asked if it was understood that the
summary jurisdiction of the magistrates was taken away,
and the trial by jury substituted ?
Mr. STANLEY replied in the affirmative.
The clause, with !he adoption of a verbal amendment
proposed by Mr. Sergeant Perrin, was then ordered to
stand part of the Bill.

The third clause, providing that persons prosecuted by
nd ctment should plead forthwith, was then read.
Mir. Sergeant PERRIN, observing that it was his inten-
'ion to resist, to the utmost, the provision of ti.e Bill for
lubmitting offences within the Act to courtsmarti•,l,

moved an amendment to the effect that the accused should

have the privilege of the traverse in prox.
After a short conveo.ation, however, in which Lord
Althorp, Mr. O'Connell, and Mr. Wynn participated, the
Hon. and Learned Member withdrew his amendment.

The cliume was then ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Lord ALTHORP observed, that as the Committee had
now finished that part of the Bill which related to offences

connected with political agitation, it might he expedient to
go no farther to-night, but that the Chairman do report

progress.

This proposal was generally assented to, and the House
havinv been resumed,

Mr. BERNAL reported progress, and obtained leave to
sit again on Mo .day.
REGISTERING BARRISTERS.
Mr. S. RICE explained, that in consequence of the
omission of the words " Consolidated Fund," in the Re-
form Act, the Treasury, though directed to pay the re-