The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-26 00:00:00

present. The Hight Hon. Baronet during his whole
speech repeated his arithmetical details with so much
rapidity, and in such quick succession, that it was totally
impossible to follow him with such accuracy as to satisfy
ourselves. The following were the particulars :-
On 31st Dec., 1830, the number of loads of timber in
store was 56,633, hod the expenditure 15,401 loads. In
1831 the number was 67,329, and the expenditure was
11,331. In 1832, the number in store was 64,023, and
the expenditure 12,406, showing a difference of 9,565
loads more in store on the Slat of December, 1830, than
upon the Slat of December, 1629. Then of hemp, in•
eluding yarn, the average annual expenditure of which,
for these four years, was 2.347 tons, there were in store,
in 1829, 9,950 tons; in 1830, 7,394; in 1831, 11,;06; •
in 1833, 11,416, showing an increase of 1,466 tons. Of
cables and cordage, the annual average expenditure of
which was 2.069 tons, there were in store in 1829,
3,38 C ; in 1830, 3,500; in 1831, 3,746 ; in 1852,
3,649; exhibiting an increase of 261 tons. Of canvass,
of which the annual average expenditure was 19.191
bolts, there were in store, in 1829, 38,121 ; in 1830,
33, 667 ; in 1831, 43.069 ; in 1832, 36,041 ; increase
since 1832, 4 920. Anchors, annual average expendi-
ture, 4701, number in store, in 1829, 2,304 ; in 1830,
2,509 ; in 1831, 2,538 ; in 1832, 2,516 ; increase since
1829, 212. Chain cables, annual av rage expenditure,
250 ; in store, in 1829, 641 ; in 1830, 725 ; in 1831,
748 ; in 1832, 740: increase since 1329, 139.

Frigates.

LOWER MASTS IN STORE.
Ships of the line.
In 1829 '3B
1830
1831
1832 3l
TOP MASTS IN STORE.
In 1829
1830
1831
1832
SPARS FOR TOP MASTS IN STORE.
In 18,9 097
18A1 0.43
1831 54
1832
SPARS FOR LOWER YARDS.

In 1829 (01
1830
1831 493
1132 583

He would now refer the Hou.e to the sums that had
been expended in stores in the three years of the Noble
Duke's Administration, and to the sums that had been
expended in the two y ars sub..quent to the present IMi-
nistets coming into office, with also the amount th,t
would he expended under the present estimates. The
Right Hon. B.ironet then read the following table of the
sums of money paid for the purchase of stores in the
ears 1828. 1829, and 1830, and in the years 1831,
1832, and 1833 :-
Ist of January to 21st of December.
1823
15,9
1930

£1,798,3-20

1311

1 :

1833
(Estimate for ISM.)

928,89.0
5.30; 00
49-2;29 i

,946,1;0

Increase in the last three years
Of eanvass there %%ere 33,667 pieces in 1830, and 36,061
in 1832. There were 2.011 anat.'s in 1830, awl
2.516 in 1832. There were only 23 chain cables if.
1830, in 1832 ther.' were 780. In 1830 there were 36
top-inas,s ;in 1832. 446 Of spit-is, in 1830, there
were 34 ; in 1832, 349. In 1828 'her.• had been ex-
p«rled in the purchase of stores 563,0001. ; in 1629,
697,000/. ; in 1830, 538,000/. ; making in all, during
these three years, 1,798 000/. In 1831 the presen'
Alinisters had expended in round nurnbets, for naval stores
923 0001. ; in 1832. 530,000/. ; and they proposed, in
1833, to expend 492,000/. ; making, during these three
years, an expendituf e upon naval stores of about 1 946,0001
altogether. A return had been made of the money value
of the stores consumed during several years. The Right
Finn. Baronet then proceeded to state the value fur each
year; but admitted that the data on which these state-
ments were framed were somewhat fall 'chins, as thy
showed only the quantity issued, and not the quantity con-
sumed. A large quantity of salt provisions were fee
quentiy issued for the army and navy, and sent to distant
stations, where they were condemned, and occasioned con-
siderable loss to the country. The following statement
embodies the particulars which are necessary to be at-
tended to on this subj.-c, :
An Account of Provisions and Vi

consumed in the

Provisions and vic-
tualling stores for
all services, 1831
Ditto, :8W

Total in 1831 andl
1832
Consumed less than
purchased

ictualling Stores purchased and
ears 1831, 1832.

Difference.
Less More
Purchased. Consumed. cons. cons.
th n than
purch. purch.
677,515 592M41 85,474
537,800 581,737 46,937
1,215,316 1,176,778 85,474 46,9.17
38,537
~2.15,3i5
.1,t115,315

No'rr —The price; ort 831 arc taken at the same rate as 1832,
except for salt meat, which was at 41. Iss. 3d. per tierce in the
former year, and 51. 19s. Bd. in the latter, amounting to 25,::87/.
Ile felt almost ashamed to trouide the House by entering
into such details ; but he thought it expedient, fur the
purpose of rebutting so grave a charge as that which had
been brought against the Board of Admiralty on this
head. He would, therefore, now proceed to point their
attention to some particulars relative to the stores which
were purchased on account of the Board of Admiralty.
They were compelled, by existing contracts, to take a
certain quantity of staves, and the quantity, reckoning on
the average of the consumpt:on of a certain description of
these during last year, would last SOS years; the stock of
another description would last 535 years. The quantity
of hoops would last 900 years. He only stated these
particulars as a specimen of the stare in which things
stood. He would next proceed to another head, upon
which it wis desirable that a saving should be made. He
meant the half-pay—a subject to which he had long
directed the most zealous attention. Be would now state
the reductions they had made in the half-pay expenditure
of the navy. Tie Right Hon. Baronet then read the fr:l-
- table

Half-pay of all Officers in the Navy, in the years 1829, 1831,
and 1833.

Ist of January, 1829 X 1,023,248 0
1831

Less in two years
Ist of January, 1831 1,022,013 0 0
1833 980,370 0 0

Less in two years
'fhe House would see front this table that his !Majesty's
Ministers had, in the course of the two last years, reduced
that portion of the expenditure by 41,6431.; that was to
sly, at the rite of about 20,0001. a y, ar. This aro.e
from adhering strictly to a regulation which had been
adopted before the present Ministry came into office, and
of which the% claimed n"ne of the merit, except in so far
as tl.ey had carried it strictly into effect. The regulation
to which he alluded, was that of never making more than
one appointment for every three vacancies that occurred.
He knew with what jealousy the Hon. Member fir Mid-
dlesex was in the habit of watching every thing connected
with this subject, and he (Si, J. Graham) had made a
few calculations fir the purpose of meeting his views.
In 1828 and 1q29, 213 midshipuien hid been promo'ed
to the rank of Lieuten nts; in 1829 and 1830, 132 ;
in 1831 and 1832, SS. In 1828 and 1829, 139 Lieu
tenants had been promoted to the rank of Commanders;
in 1829 and 1830, 100 ; in 1831 and 1832, 37. In
1828 and 1829, 57 Commanders were made Post-Cap-
tains; in 1829 and 1830, 51 ; in 1831 and 1832, 17.
He hoped, immediately alter the recess, to lay before the
House the bal.me-s eet of the last year ; to show the
votes of the House with regard to the navy, and the man-
ner in which those votes had been applied. He now came
to the part of the case which was the most important,
and on which he was ti e most anxious—namely, what
should henceforth be the n ival establishment. For t e
due satisfaction of those Hon. Memb-rs who were natu-
rally jealous of the extent of that establishim nr, he would
comp tie it with the establishments is antecedent periods.
He held in his hand a statemen, of the amount of our
naval ,stablishnient from the revo.ution in 1688 ; hut he
would confine hunseli to a statement of what it was in the
year 1778, and in the ye r to which the Hun. Member
for Middle-ex was so f of referring. In 1773 we
hail a hundred and tw, lay three sail of the line in
urinary, and alt-gether four hundred and forty
ips of war. In 1792 we had a hum !red and V irty.
nine sail of the line, and altogether tour hundred and
sixty-eight ships of war. At present we bad a hundred
and eighty sail of the line, and altogether five hundred
and twenty ships of war. He was bound, however, to
state, that of the ships of the line, the larger rates ab,ive
74 were nitwit clime than proportionably increased ; so that
at present it won d require a larger maritime force to man
our navy if ;t were all hard out than this country
had ever
before possessed. He would now mention the number of
ships actually in service belonging to the siveral maritime
powers. France haft 34 sail of the line and 37 frigates;
Russia, 36 sail of the line and 17 frigates ; the United
States of America, eight sail of the line and 16 frigates.
He would not mention the precise amount of our force,
but would merely state that we had more at sea and fewer

building than any other naval power.. Adverting to the
question on which he had upon a former occasion differed
so much from the Hon. Member for Middlesex—newels-,
the necessity of being provided with timber and stores in
our yards to meet any sudden emergency that might arise
—he woofi read an extract from the report that hail been
made on the state of the navy of the United States of
America to Congress, by the Secretary of the Navy, in
order to show the sense which was entertained in that !
country of the expediency of being so provided :—" The I
property on hand at the several yards, consisting chiefly'
of timber, iron, copper, and arms, continues to increase
in amount. The whole now exceeds in value the sum of '
5.579,917 dollars.—(Hear, bear.) Independent of
what is provided for repairs of vessels, we have on hand
the frames for four ships of the line, seven frigates,
four sloops, and three steam batteries ; 900 tons
of iron, 45S tons of copper, 93 tons of lead, 2,232 can-
non and carronades, 3,501 muskets, about thrice as mane
pistols and cutlasses, 228,905 round and double-headed
cannon-balls, besides grape mud canister ; 35,0001115. of
powder, 193,3521b5. of sulphur, and about double that
quantity in nitre. For further particulars under this
head, reference may he had to the annexed Report. In-
creased attention has been bestowed on the due arrange•
ment and preservation of all these materials, and new
securities for their proper use and the accountability for
them, will probably be introduced into the revised Naval
Regu'ations now preparing. Without much previous
attention to the extent and quality of these materials, it
will never be in our power, in any future emergency, to
develop suddenly, and employ efficiently, the great naval
capab limits of this country for annoyance of an en,my,
and for protection to our commerce, as well as for marl
time defence. The Act of Congress, for the gradual im-
provement of the navy will expire next March, and this
occasion is seined to recommend the continuance of its
appropriations for the purchase of these materials, as well as
for other valuable purposes, at least six years longer. It
these materials are gradually collected, and well preserved, in
such quantities as to enable us, in addition to the force
usually in commission, forthwith, in any crisis, to put our
vessels that may be in ordinary and on the stocks into a
condition fur active and efficient service, and to build and
equip suitably such other vessels as our great commercial
marine will assist us fully to man, we shall then exercise
that true foresight, and that sound and sagacious economy
in respect to this branch of the public service, which all
exp-rience of our own tind other nations recommends, and
which the present flourishing state of our country justi-
fies. Without any increase of the numb •r of seamen ac-
tually serving in tee navy during peace, every sailor on
our 2,000 miles of seabotoil, on our noble tivers and vast
I ekes, can then be considered as in a course of training to
man the numerous vi aseis or war, which our interests, our
rights, and our honour might at any future period re-
quite us to arm ; and our countless steam-vessels on the
navigable waters connected with some of our frontiers,
could then, in an emer. ency, be at once supplied wiih the
proper munitions of war, and be so far equipp.d as float-
ing batteries, that they would furnish new and powerful
aid, not only in the rapid transportation of men and
stores, but in repressing hostile depredations near our
snores, and in repelling an invading foe. Though nomi-
nally, as to vessels in commission, only the fifth or sixth
naval power in the world, and not expending over one-
eighth of the annual amount paid by some nations to
maintain a naval establishmeet, yet, if we look to the
true elements of naval poser, to our ships in ordinary and
on the stocks to our materials for building and equip-
tn,nt collected and collecting, to our large commercial ma-
rine, whether of merchant vessels or steam-boa's, to our flou-
rishing fisher ies, our extended sea-co ist and excellent har-
bours, to our large number of navigable rivers and inland
seas, and likewise to our position with regard to other nations,
with few neighbours bordering on us by land, and an
ocean rolling between us and most of the Governments
with whom we are likely to have collision, it must be
manifest that our greatest exposure and denser are on
the water, nal that our means of attack and defence there,
if duly husbanded and developed, vial probably a'ways
prove equal to sustain us with credit in any hostilities
into which the convulsions of the world may hereafter
plunge our peaceful confederacy." lie now came to the
immediate vote a Lich he was about to have the honour
of proposing to the Committee. It was proposed to vote
for the service of the year, eighteen thousand seamen and
nine thousand royal marines, that most valuable anti double-
handed force, which was equal!)t available at sea Dad
ashore. Below this it was not proposed to reduce the
naval establishment of the country-. It might be said, by
the advocates of the reduction of our estimates to the
lowest possible state, that at the present period, one of
profound peace, the reduction might be almost unlimited.
He admitted thit the present was a state of profound
peace ; but, nevertheless, there were many grave and im-
portant considerations which ought to weigh with us in
preventing the reduction of our navy hermit a certain
point. Whether we considered the importance of our
East Indian Empire, and the nec•ssity for its security of
maintaining a fleet in the Indian Seas—whether we con-
sidered the importance of keeping up, on the coast of
South America, for the protection of British commerce,
a naval force equal to that of France and the United
States—whether we considered the import ince of pro-
tecting our Fisheries and our West India Colonies—
whether we considered the importance of having a naval
force on the coast of Arica to prevent the revival
of that detestable traffic in human beings which it was so
highly to our honour that we had done so much to put
down—whether we considered the importance of pre-
serving our naval superiority in the Mediterranean, that
scene of the frequent triumph of our flag—whether we
considered the importance of maintaining a moderate naval
force on our own shores, for the purpose of affording re-
gular relief to foreign stations—we roust feel that there
were many grave and serious considerations which should
operate to prevent us from diminishing our strength so
extensively as to endanger the interests and honour of the
country. He was well aware that that House was pledged
to public economy ; but be was quite sure that lie should
nut call upon them in vain for such a measure of expense
as was indispensable to preserve those interests and that
honour. Unless we preserved the means of asserting our
naval superiority, we should risk the tarnishing of our
:Jury, and the loss of our rank among the nations of the
world. While we did preserve those means, we should
hive nothing to fear from abroad, nor have any appre-
hension that the constituents of that House would blame
them for an expenditure recommended by so many consi-
derations. The Bight Hon. Baronet concluded by moving,
" That there be employed for the service of the year com-
mencing on the Ist of April, 1833, twenty-seven thousand
men, including nine thousand Royal M triaes."
Captain YORKE, referring to the statement of the
Right Hon. Baronet, in answer to a former statement of
his (Capt. Yorke's), respecting the want of spars and
masts in the yard at Portsmouth to supply those injured in
men of war coming in to be r fitted, rapt essed his persua-
sion that the mists to which the Right Hon. Baronet
alluded, could not have been in the yard at the time men-
tioned by him (Captain Yorke), but must have been else•
where. As a proof of the accuracy of his statement, he
would mention, that when the Sparliate, on coining into
pert, was oblin-d to have all her lower masts taken out,
the Nelson's foremast was placed in her as a mainmast.
Now it might he the practice—as the Right Hon.
Baronet said—fir ships in ordinary thus to of the
means of supplying toasts and spars that were suddenly
required. He (Captain Yerke) ;vas not aware of it,
anti thought the double operation both inconvenient and
expensive. The Right Han. Baronet said, that there
were more stores in the dockyards than when the
Doke of Welltngton's Administration terminated.
When the Right lion. Baronet came into office in
1830, there was a great accumulation of stoles, owing
to apprelien-i •ns which were entertained at that period
of the possible disturbance of the peace of Europe;
and those stores, as well as the surplus of 130;0001n
had been employed by the Right Hon. B trot.et in
the naval service. Torre could be no doubt that every'
saving that was compatible it ith the effic ency of the ser-
vice ought to be effect d ; but he was cortvincsd that the
system now put suing by the Right Hon. Baronet would
be ruinous. The consolidation of the boards, which hail
taken place last year, had been attended with touch incon-
venience, and in his (Captain Yorke's) opinion, it would
have been much better if the suggestion of Sg. Geoige
Cockbut n hail been adopted. Of the abolition of the
Coll ge of Naval Architec•ure, he highly approved. But
the appointment of Ciptairi Symitetis, a naval officer, to a
:situation which was naturally lo iked up to by the regu-
larly trained and rap rieliced shipwrights ut the King's
suds, Was, in his opinion, inexpedient. He would now
Illak•• a few comments on another a al a recent proceeding
of the Rig tit Hem. B trotter's ; and in doing so lie wood'
apply his remarks to the principle of th at proceeding,
and not to the individual immediately affected by it.
It was held by the Right Honoterable Baronet, that a
naval officer commanding ott any station was thereby
incapacitated for being a Member of that House.
'I his was a doctrine which he (Captain Yorke) tad
never before heard successfully maintained. He had al-
ways underst ,oil that an English officer, if prep rly qua
lith' in other ets, hail an undoubted right to offer
himself- to the choice of any body of his country men as
their representative. The Right Hon. Baronet had in
this respect p,oceeded ou the principle advocated by the
floe. Member for Middlesex, who, however, hal contra-
dicted that principle on a recent occasion on which be had
presented a petition to that House. He thought he had made

out a case against the principle sought to be established
the Right Hon.' SecretarY; for assuredly there was no
necessity for the Admiral to be constantly on the sta-
tion,
when he had a superintendent and other able as-
sistants always at his command. If, however, the prin-
ciple were to obtain at all, ti.en, in his opinion, it should
be carried much further. The Gallant Captain here read
an order lately issued by the Admiralty, authorizing sea- i
men to remove from one vessel to another, and which be
stigmatised as of a most injudicious character, and likely
to be destructive to the best interests of the service. If it I
had been issued to gain popularity amongst the men, it
would undoubtedly fail in so doing.
Sir S. PECHELL said a few words, which were alto.
gether inaudible in the gallery.
Sir EDWARD CODRINGTON, after stating that the
dockyards were in a more efficient state at present than
ever before known, proceeded to remark on the unceasing
complaints about slight pensions to Avorn-fait naval
officers, while the enormous retiring allowances of the
civil servants of the mint' y were comparatively unheeded.
The lion. George Stapleton had been entered as having
served 59 years, mud allowed 1,000/. a year pension ; and I
Mr. Jackson, who was a master in the service, had been
rated at 35 years only, and allowed 433/. per annum.
Fifty five years ago he knew both these individuals in the
service ; and why was it, then, that one had been in-
creased in his standing in the service, in order to auement
his pension, and the other decreased, that his allowance I
should be diminished ? He could go into many other hems
of that sort, which would strike all in the House with asto-
nishment. William Clifton, whom he did not think was
old enough for such an allowance, received 1001. per an-
num more than he (Sir Edward) did, and he had been in
the service since the year 1 7 5 . The late Secretary to the
Admiralty, after five years' service, received a pension of
1,500/. a year ; and on what ground was this given to a man
who aid not know a boat from a ship ? A lady of the
name of Hawkins, the sister of three officers who had
seen service in every quarter, and greatly distinguished
themselves, applied in vain to the Admiralty for pension
or assi-tanee, and she might have gone without for ever
but tor the kindness of his present Mijesty, tien Lord
High Admiral, who put her down upon his own list for
501. annually. Let this denial be put in contrast with
time sum of 300/. per annum paid to Miss Rosamond
Cruker._( Hear, hear.) Sir Robert Seppings, a man
who had saved the country immense sums, arid whose ser-
vices had been of the most important character for the
last fifty years, had been reduced to thirty nine years,
and a pension of 760/. He did not understand why the
ectu number of years of service should ever be reduced
or increased—why, by tt is method, some persons should
receive so much larger pensions than others The pur.
sets of the navy, a most meritorious class of men, were
very unfairly treated. He knew one of the name of El-
hot, who hair in fact been a purser in his own ship, who
had frequently been on boat service and also on watch,
and who, after forty years' laborious services, was allowed
en application, the sum of 4s. a day. Another equally
efficient and valuable man that he knew had 3s. per day
allowance. The capt tins' cleiks fared no better. He
knew one of the name of Wickham, who was a
captain's clerk in the battle of Naval in, and received
five wounds whilst carrying important messages—a
man who had been for years in the service—who hail been
everywhere—who had ken during that severe winter
with Ciptain Parry in the Arctic rm glom', and by his
poetry and prose—(Loud laughter)—been the very life of the
crew, and who was still a captain's clerk, without any
chance of promotion. Give him (Sir Edward) pcssession of
the pensions, and he would content the whole navy with
them. There were ennugb of them undeserved to make
those happy who did deserve them.—(Hear, hear.) He
hoped time First Lord of the Admiralty would turn his
attention to these matters, that justice might be dune to
every branch of the service—such justice us the people
would approve. No honest or correct principle was
acted upon. He recollected in 1819, an individual,
named George Booth, presented a document from Lord
Exmouth at the Admiralty, and because it was signed
Elia ard Pellew, the late Secretary called the bearer of it
a forger. Being rath r stout and very irritable—(Loud
laughter)—he was about to retort in another way, when
time Secretary hastily retired to the Board ; and merely
because this person would not submit to be called a forger,
he was erasrd from the Navy List, and it was only in
consequence of repeated remonstrance that he was rein-
stated. Another person—a man destitute of character,
who had been found guilty of robbery on board the
Day frigate, and degraded and incapacitated far any
further service by a Courtmartial, had been pro-
moted to the rank of Master. Let them contrast
these two cases. A certain Right Honourable Member
beneath him (Sir R. Peel, we believe) had sated things
most derogatory to his (Sir Edward's) character, anti
whi la as they were not true, he trusted- the House would
al ow him to say something about. He stated that some
thousand Greek slaves passed throUgh the fleet in Nava-
rin Bay (as we understood the Gillent Officer). The
Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that he was not posi
tive whether there might not be same difference as to the
number of the Greek slaves, but that some event of that
sort bad taken place ; and that he could assure the House,
that within forty eight hours of the probability of that
event cursing to the knowledge of the Government, strict
injunctions had been sent out to the Admiral ; and that,
if lie had complied with them, the event would nut have
taken place. He (Admiral Codrington) felt this to
be an imputation on his character, which he prized above
everything else—fur which alone he had served—(H, ar,
hear, hear)—and which he would defy mortal man justly
to impeach. He was in the Mediterranean when
lie read this in Galignani's paper (he afterwards found
the statement puWislied in the same manner in
the Mirror of Parliament); he immediately wrote home
to the Government, but he had received no explanation.
Now, what would the House think, when he informed
them, that the letter said to be sent out within forty-eight
hours was, in fact, a letter that be did rot receive till
twenty-eight days after its date; and which, besides, did
not contain one word to prevent tile transmission of the
Greek slaves? Having made tt is statement—which he
did because he saw the Right Hon. Gentlemen in his
place—he called on the Right Hon. Gentleman to answer
it ; and be should now proceed to speak to the other part
of the question. Some Hon. Members had expressed
themselves in favour of granting a sum of money as a re-
ward for eminent services, instead of continuing naval
sinecures for that purpose. lle should be in favour of
that plan, but that he thought the matter would be left
too much in time discretion of the First Lord of the Trea-
sury. ; who, if lie were a great economist, might not feel
very ready to support a vote of that sort. But fur that
objection the plan seemed to him a good one ; and he
thought that the services of such men as Sir F. Foley,
and Lord de Satunarez, and others whom he could men-
rinn, deserved some such reward. In his opinion, the
Marines were an ill-used corps. The high office of In-
specter of Marines was filled by a gentlemen who wis net
a marine office:, and he thought that they had a right to
comela n that a man was taken from another service to
fill such a post.
Mr. GOULBURN should not have said one word on
this occasien, but for whet had fallen from the Hon.
Admiral, who hail thought fit tii cast an imputation upon
a Right Hon. Gentleman now no longer a Member of till.
House. As his Right Hon. Friend was absent when thus
attacked, and would have no opportunity of replying to
that attack in the plice where it was made, he (Mr.
Goulburn) eliould think it his duty to say a few words in
answer to it.—LAdmiral Codrineton said, he had. called
fur an answer nom the Right Hon. 13aronet (Sir R. Peel)
who was there to erre, tr for himself.]—lie (Mr. Gaul-
but n) should not have had time presumption to interfere in
order to explain the conduct of his Right Hon. Friend
the Member for Tamworth, who was present, and was su
well able to defend himself; he rose only to defend the
conduct 01 a Right Hon Friend who was absent, and who
had been made the sehjeet of the Hem Admiral's attack;
he meant the late Secretary to the Admiralty.—(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Admiral had spoken of his feelings as
a gentleman ; be (Mr. Goulliurn) respected those feelings
of which the Hon. Admiral was ,o tender ; he entered
kr', those feelings ; but when the Hon. Admiral made
his remarks as he had done, it was impossiale not to
think dust it would have been more consistent with the
feelings of a gentleman, if the Hen. Admiral had con-
sidered in his remarks, that a man who held a civil office
had a title to have his feelings respected as much as any
other person—(Heer, heat).--and that a man who made
an accusation, was boun I to know the facts on whi, h lie
rustleand was doubly inexcusable if he did not know
them It,s,vhen he had ample means to be acquainted with
theta.--(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Admiral had drawn a
contrast between I Secretary to the A mirel. y and an
officer float. He (Mr. Gmmuleurn) did not object to that
comparioin. He aid not object even to time Hon. Ad-
ruirel's opinion upon it, if that opinion was justified by
the facts of the c se; but he did object to the Hon. Ad-
mird's swing that the retiring pension which his Right
lion• Ft lend now enjoyed was the reward of five years'
service.—(Hear.) He thought that there was net a man
in the whole country, except the Hon. Admiral, who was
ignorant of the length of time during which is Right Hon.
F. jaw' had filled a situation of great responsibility anti diffi-
culty; it was a period, not of five years, but of twenty-
three years, during nine of which the country was engaged
in active warfare, and the Right Hon. Gentleman was
I mboriously occupied not only during the day, but often
even snraugh the night in the labours of his office. The

papers on the Table showed dais to be the fact—paptrs,
of which the Hon. Admiral ought not to have been ig-
norant when he made his statement respecting the length
of service of the Right Hon, Oeutleonao,—(Hear, hear.)
(Sir E. Codrington said something
which was inaudible
in the Gallery.) The Hon. Admiral had accused a party
who was absent, and bad given no one the means of
knowing of the accusation, so as to be prepared with the
means of contradicting it. Of that part of the Hon. Ad-
miral's speech he should, therefore, say nothing—be had
not the means of observing upon it ; but he must again
repeat, that none but the Hon. Admiral could have been
so ignorant of the fact as to suppose that the retiring
pension of the late Secretary to the Admiralty had been
granted upon only five years' service.—(Hear. )
Admiral CODIUNGTON, in explanation, observed
that he had said the Right Hon. Gentleman was, by the
rules in the book, entitled to a pension at the end of five
Years' service.—(Hear, hear.) That was his statement.
—(Hear, hear.) God knows (added the Hon. Admiral)
I well remember the time that the Right Hon. Gentleman
was there.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GOULBURN—The Hon. Admiral said that he
well knew the 1-ngth of time that the Right Hon. Secre-
tary had served in the Admiralty. He (tlr. Goulburn),
asked why, well knowing it, he bad taken especial care
not to state it?—(Hear.)

Sir R. PEEL observed, that if be did not rise itnme-
diately upon the Hon. Admiral's sitting down, it was that
he felt justice required that the explanation relative to a
Right Hon. Gentleman who was absent should first be
given. He must say, that in the whole course of the
Parliamentary experience of any man who now heard him,
there never had been a more extraordinary appeal than
that wiich the Hon. Admiral had just made. In 1827,
the battle of Navarin was fought. He (Sir R. Peel) was
recalled to office in 1828. A question was then put to
him on the subject of the battle, or of the affaits of
Greece, and it was his duty to give the best answer he
could to it. In giving that answer, and in making some
comment on the remarks on the subject of that engage-
ment, it appeared that he had made some statement which
had given offence to the Hon. Admiral. The Hon.
Admiral aid that he had read that statement inacaalig-
nani's paper, and that that statement did not correspond
with the fact.—(Admiral CODRINCTON said that he
found the same report in the Mirror of Parliament.)
Well, then, the Mirror of Parliament. But was he to
be made now responsible for statements published of him
in Galignani'o paper or the Mirror of Parliament—state-
ments made four years since, and the subject of which had
course in that time escsped his memory ? He was always
willing enough to do justice to any man about whom he
had made, or was reported to have made, an erroneous
statement; but was there any fairness in withholding
from him an imputation of this sort at the time when,
if he had male it, he could have best explained it, and
then calling on him five years afterwards for an explana-
tion—(Hear, hear)—and not even then condescending to
state what Galignani had put into his mouth ;—(Hear,
hear)—and what he was expected to answer —(Hear.)
Surely the Hon. Admiral might have had the courtesy
yesterday, or this morning, to have given him notice of
this ruatter—(Hear, hear).—to have said that he was to
be accused of doing the Hon. Admiral wrong. Had this
been done, be should have done his best to have satisfied
the Hon. Admit al—he should have referred to particulars
about the several thousand slaves, and he should have then
been prepared to meet the accusation of the Hon.
Admiral. But now he was totally unprepared ; the more
especially, as he had no concern with the instructions that
led to that battle. Under these circumstances, and above
all, because he bad no communication from the Hon.
Admiral, he was now quite unable to give any explanation
from memory a'one.

Admiral CODRINGTON said he had made communi-
cation about this matter in three official letters ; that he
wrote to Lord Melville, requesting him to lay the letter
before the Right Hon. Baronet; that he did so, because
that was the more regular and business-like way, and that
he menti,ined it afterwards to Mr. W. Peel.

Sir R. PEEL observed, that the Honourable Admiral
ought to have given him notice that he was to be called on
to•night. He had at first intended to give an answer to
this matter trom the debates themselves ; he accordingly
asked a friend to frtch him, not the Mirror of Parlia•
went, for that was not in their library, but the Podia-
mentary Debates; but the volume he wanted could not
he procured at the moment. He was now glad that it
could not, for he did nut think that he was called on, in
justice to himself, to give from such materials alone an
answer to a matter thus unexpectedly put forward. He
again protested against being made responsible for what
appeared either in Galignani's paper or the Mirror of
Parliament, and repeated that he ought to have had no-
tice of this matter.—(Hear, hear.)

Admiral CODRINoTON said that he should take the
opportunity of asking that question again at another time,
when he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would be
better prepared.
Capt tin BERKELEY said, that after the admirable
statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the First Lord
of the Admiralty, he should feel himself called upon to
support the vote nose proposed.
Mr. HUME insisted that the vote ought to be reduced.
Much of the money voted for the navy was uselessly ex-
pended. We hAI paid away uselessly since the peace as
much money as would more than equip two such fleets as
the Americans had now. We had great quantities of
stores that were now rotting away. That was the way in
which the public money was wasted. The Americans
had but five frigates, three of the larger and two of the
smaller class; they had a commerce as extensive as ours,
and yet they found this force sufficient to protect it. Now,
in 1828, instead of the five or six ships of the Americans,
we had no less than 170 ships, exclusive of packets, and
the number now was 118. He believed that half that
❑umber would be sufficient for us. He did not want CO
go back to the standard of 1792, as he was accused of
doing ; but to that recommended by the Finance Com-
mittee in 1817. Our navy was kept up merely as a
means of patronage. There was no justice done to men
serving in it, unless they had Parli inientary or Aristo-
cratic connections. Such men rose in four or five years
to high promotions, while others served for 20 or 30
years without auy promotion whatever. The question the
Committee now had to decide was, whether they would
vote a body of 27,000 men for the navy, when 20,000
had been thought sufficient six years since. He should
move as an amendment, that the vote should he reduced
by substituting 20,000 men for 27,000 men, as he
thought tie 20,000 were amply sufficient.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG said that he had but a few words
to say, and those were, to express his gratification at the
statements made by Hor. and Go lant Officers on the
(Aber side of the House, that the British Naval service was
becoming popular among seamen, and shut for the future
it would not be necessary to have recourse to the odious
system of impressment. That matter was one that had
lung engaged his attention, and be was prepared to move,
if no omber Hon. Mem' er did, that a Select Committee be
appointed to inquire into this subject.

Mr. C. BUSS, from the continued cries of " Hear,
hew," and " Question," was almost entirely inaudible in
the gillery. The only remark that fell from the 11,n.
Alen]4ler that we cou;d ca,ch was, that he doubted whether
the consolidating of the Navy and Victualling Boards with
the Admiralty, which took place last year. would be pro-
dtioive of any beneficial results. It would take another
year to see how the plan winked, and before a positive
opinion could he formed on the matter.

Mr. GUEST considered thit unler the present circum-
stances of the country, 'Ministers should adopt practical
measures of economy. The reduction of men proposed was
too great, yet he thought that Ministers might begin with
a reduction of 2 000.

The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion 337
Against it
. Majority —3li3

Being re-admitted into the g .llery, we tound
Mr.- HUME, contending that nothing could be more
stupid than the way iu which navy estimates were voted.
T e number of Admirals and other Officers were not spe-
cified, but Officers and men were huddled together in the
greatest contusion. Rich respect to the army, it was very
different, for the number of Generals, Colonels, and regi-
ments were sta-ed, so that au insight into the estimates
for each might be obtained.
On the question that the 955,220/. proposed to be
granted to his Majes,y for the wages, clothing, &c., of the
said 27,000 men, be reduced by 6,9751.,
Sir J. GRAHAM obj cred to the reduction, and de-
fended the system of Marines, who, he said, were by an
Order in Council su-jected to the same rules and regulas
thins as ordinary naval men.
Mr. O'CONNELL put it to the Committee to say,
whether or not they were prepared to vote away the money
of th, public for th avowed purpose of maint ining
-inecur.s? Tue question had reduced its,lf to one of sine-
cm es or no sinecures : and the (location for a reformed
Clouse of Commons to determine was, whether or not they
would support the motion for economy of his Hun. Friend
the Mem er f r Middlesex ?

Mr. SANDFORD supported the estimate as laid before
the Roos- by hi, Maj.•sty's Government.
Mr. ROBINSON observed that no exception what-
ever hid been taken to the personal merits or
servic s of the individual officers—the question was
one entirely of principle; but after the best reflection
which he could bestow on it, he did not find it in Lis
power to support the motion of hie Hon. Friend the Mem..