The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-27 00:00:00

BARONS,

EARLS.

Carnarvon Saltersford (Ear of
Wicklow Courtoun)
Belmore Calthorpe
Rosslyn Rolle
Limerick Bayning
Bosse Carbery
Charleville Dufferin
MARQUISES. Orford Ellenborough
Salisbury Verulam Meldrum (Earl of
Abercorn De Grey Aboyne)
Bute Brownlow Colchester
Camden Beauchamp Maryborough
Cholmondeley Eldon Ravensworth
Aylesbury Falmouth Forrester
Bristol Howe Bexley
Vane (Marquess of Wharncliffe
EARLS. Londonderry) Lynslhurst
Westmoreland Melross (Earl of Had-
Chcstestield VISCOUNTS. dington)
Sandwich Hereford Stuart de Rothsay
Doncaster (Duke of Strathallan Wy n ford
Buccleuch) St. John
Shaftesbury Gordon (Earl of
Abingdon Aberdeen)
Jersey Beresford
Home BISHOPS,
Airlie BARONS. London
Selkirk Colville Bath and Wells
Orkney Hay (Earl of Kin- Lincoln
Dartmouth noul) Rochester
A ylesford Dynevor Ox ford
Bathurst Southampton Gloucester
Digby Montagu Exeter
Beverley. Kenyon Hereford
Mansfield Clonfert

ARCHBISHOP.
Canterbury

Viscount Strangford paired off' with the Earl of Lichfield on
he Archbishop of Canterbury's Amendment, and Lord Redes-
ale with the Marquis of Clanricarde.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, JuLr 26.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. O'CONNELL, on the resumption of the House,
rose again to bring forward the question of a breach of
the privileges of the House in publishing the debates.
His present motion was founded on the letter that appeared
in the Times newspaper of to-day addressed to the editor
by the Parliamentary reporters of that establishment, de-
elating their determination not to report Mr. O'Connell's
speeches again until he had openly retracted his calumny
upon the reporters.—(Hear, hear.) The Learned Gen.
tleman made a direct personal charge against one reporter
of the Times paper for having twice reported him
" designedly false." He moved that Anna Brodie, John
Joseph Lawson, and Joseph Lawson, be called to appear at
the Bar on Monday next, being part of the proprietors and
publishers of the Times.
[The reporter alluded to immediately sought every means
of disproving the Learned Gentleman's charge at the bar of
the House. He lost not a moment in putting into the hand
of the first Member he met in the lobby (Mr. Tennyson, the
Member for Lambeth), a petition, praying permission to meet
the charge at that moment at the bar; but it being informal,
as he understood, for the House to receive a petition founded 1
on "the hearsay evidence of a stranger in the gallery," his
petition cannot be presented till Monday. All, therefore, that
he can say at this stage of the proceeding is, that he engages
to disprove at the bar Mr. O'Connell's statement, so far as it
applied to him; and he feels he has a right, in justice, to a
hearing, before the House receives that Learned Gentleman's
charge as correct.]
Mr. HUME seconded the motion. He did not rise to
second it on the ground on which the motion had been
made, but that the question might now be fairly tried
He had over and over again proposed to the House to take
some measures upon this question. While persons were
allowed to report what passed in that House they were
hound not to withhold the statements of any one Member.
—( Hear, hear.) They might exercise their own discretion
as to giving more or less of the arguments on any question,
but they were not warranted in withholding the argu-
ments of one Member, and in giving the arguments of
another on the opposite side of the question.—(Hear.)
He had witnessed those things being done with great regret,
but he had always been of opinion that the matter would
find its own natural level in the estimation of public opinion.
The Noble Lord opposite (Althorp) would recollect his
(Mr. Hume's) pressing on him the propriety of putting
an end to that species of domination which now assumed
a particular character, and which now took upon itself to
declare that it would report so much of what took place
and no more. Ile submitted to the Noble Lord, that no
one act of his government was of more importance to the
public than removing the tax on newspapers, which would
he the best remedy for this evil.—(Cheers.) It had been
Tell defined as the fourth power of the State—certainly it
tvas a great power, hut it ought to be honest, for there was
as much mischief in the sin of omission as of commission.
It was necessary that this House should not be brOught
into collision with their constituents, and, therefore, for
the reason he bad stated, he s comical the motion, hoping
that, as they had permitted the publication of their pro-
ceedings, the mere publication would not be considered as
an offence, but the present form was adopted as the only
one by which the House could take notice of it. He
seconded it, in order that the House might express their
opinion upon the whole proceeding. He was exceedingly
anxious to see two things, first, the removal of the tax on
newspapers, which would destroy the monopoly; and,
secondly, that the Howe should appoint authorzed indi-
viduals to report faithfully and honestly the proceedings,
however shortly they might be reported. Witness the
proceedings on the India Bill, and on other important
measures on which discussions had taken place accordingly,
in order that the sentiments of the Members might go
forth to the country ; it was important not only to the
Members themselves but to the community, that it should
be known what the sentiments of their representatives were;
yet a debate of six hours on the India Bill and other Bills
was comprised in about six lines. The reports should
either be faithful and honest, or the gallery should be
closed, and the House coald then come to some understand-
ing as to what should be done. He knew nothing of the
patties named in the letter in the Times ; but the present
motion would raise the question whether they should be
reported or not, and if, or whether, the reports should not
be faithful, in order that the truth might go before the
public.

Mr. H. CURTEIS put it to the gallantry of the Hon.
and Learned Mover whether he would call a lady to the
bar.—(Laughter, and cries of " Hear.") The lady
named in the motion was the widow of a clergyman, and
resided at Eastbourne ; and he put it to the Hon. and
Learned Member whether he would insist on her coming
up to London to attend at the bar of the House.--(Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL consented to dispense with the
lady's attendance.
An HON. MEMBER under the gallery (name unknown)
was understood to ask the lion. and Learned Gentleman
to withdraw the rest of his motion. He thought, before
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman brought forward a
motion to charge others, he should himself see thit he
had clean hands. The calve of the motion was, that all
that that Hon. Member chose to say was not reported.
The Hon. and Learned Member had himself published
statements of what passed in that House in the News-
papers.—(Oh, oh.)
The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Member that he
did not seem to understand what the motion was ; it was
to bring certain persons before the House for a breach of
privilege, the privileges of the House having been infringed.
An Hos. MEateEit said, that lie thought he might go
the length of saying, that it could not he strictly called a
breach of privilege.—(Oh, oh.) If he was in error,
he would bow to the decision of the House, but he had
expressed his opinion as a young Member ; and should
only add, that he should vote against the motion.—(Hear.)
Mr. C. FERGUSSON, who addressed the House with
his back turned towards the gallery, and was occasionally
inaudible to us, said, among other observations, that he
agreed with the many lion. Members on his right and
left who had borne testimony to the general accuracy of
the reports.—(Hear, hear.) He said it might frequently
occur that points in the speeches of Honourable
Members might be omitted by the reporters, as not likely
to fix public attention, or as not being pertinent to the sub-
ject—( Hear, hear)—and it should be remembered that
Hm. Members might not be best qualified to estimate the
value of their own speeches.—(Hear, hear.) But this
did not sanction the propriety of what had been published
in the paper of that day.--(Hear.) The reporters in
that statement, said that " they had resolved not to
report any speech of Mr. O'Connell until be shall
have retracted, as publicly as he made the calum-
nious assertion, that our reports are designedly false.' "
It was nut a question between the press and Mr. O'Con-
nell, but between the press and the people. He would not
support any motion to establish the point that a speech
was not truly re ported, for a speech might by mistake
be misreported ; but it was unfair that one speech
should be reported at greater length than another, and he
should support the motion.
Sir MATTHEW RIDLEY said that be should have
objected to the motion of yesterday, but should vote for

this, although he thought the Hon. Member for Dublin
unwise in making it. It was a gross breach of privilege
in any individual to complain of being calumniated by
a Member of that House, or call upon him to apologise.
He differed from the Hon. Member in politics, hut was
ready to pay a tribute to his merits. As to the propo-
sition which was made by some Hon. Members to
have authenticated reporters employed by the House, he
would be prepared to show upon the proper occasion,
that such a step would be highly inexpedient—
(Hear, bear, hear.) H• considered that the present system,
properly guarded, would be found a sufficiently correct
medium of communicating to the public, as was most ne
cesslry and desirable, the proceedings of that House. At
the same time, he thought if the motion was now pressed,
he should be hound to give it hi: support.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord ALTHORP said that when the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had introduced the subject last night, he
stated that he (Lord Althorp) had not considered it
worthy the attention which the subject seemed to ex-
cite ; but be also stated that it was essential for
the interests of the public that the debates of that
House should be impartially executed.—(Hear.) He
found that considerable difficulty might arise from the
course which was now adopted ; but he also admitted
that if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman chose to per-
severe in his motion, it would be impossible for
the House, consistently with the regard which
it bore to the maintenance of its own privileges, to resist
the motion. He confessed that had he been placed in the
same circumstances in which the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber stood, he should not have thought it worth his while
to have introduced the subject to the notice of the
House—(Hear, bear)—but it having been brought
forward, and a statement having been made of what was
an undoubted breach of privilege, he thought, if persevered
in, the House could not refuse agreeing to the motion.—
( Hear, hear.)
The motion was then put and agreed to.
WARWICK ELECTION.

Lord ALTHORP in answer to a question upon the sub•
ject of the proceedings at the last election for Warwick,
said it was true that a report which had been laid on the
table of the House respecting the transactions at that
election did contain charges of a very serious nature, as
affecting the privileges of that House against a Noble
Lord, the Lord Lieutenant of that county, and he was
anxious, before directly answering the question, to premise,
as a considerable degree of misapprehension existed
in the public mind, an observation or two re-
lative to the situation of Lords Lieutenant of
counties. He knew that Government had been fre-
quently accused of having permitted gentlemen to con-
tinue in such situations, who differed from them in poli-
tical principles. Now he must state that, as far as his
own recollection went, it was not to be considered a
political office, and that such persons had not been re-
moved solely from reference to political conduct.—(Hear.)
There were, he believed, two exceptions within his
memory, and two instances before of Lords Lieutenant
being removed for political conduct ; but he appealed to
those who acted with him in political life whether or not
he had not expressed his disapprobation of the course then
pursued by Government, and his opinion was, that no
one should be removed from the office of Lord-Lieutenant,
in consequence of a political offence ; but he admitted that
in the present case it was different.—(Cheers.) This was a
question not of political opinion merely, entertained by a
Lord-Lieutenant, but a question of the Lord-Lieutenant in-
ter•fer ing as alleged in the report, with the privileges of this
House. Now he was ready to admit that this was a very
serious charge ; but inasmuch as it was a serious charge,
and one affecting seriously the character and situation of
the Noble Lord in question, it was necessary that the
Noble Lord should have an opportunity of explaining
his conduct. Such was the course which Government
bad determined to pursue on the present occasion, and a
letter either was, or should be, immediately written
to the Earl of Warwick, stating what charges had been,
made against him, and calling on him for an explanation ;
it would then be for the Government to consider what
steps should afterwards be taken.
GLASGOW LOTTERY.
Mr. ROMILLY asked the Noble Lord whether any
steps bad been taken with respect to the Glasgow Lottery
Act?

Lord ALTHORP observed that the Bill had passed ;
and that when an inquiry came to be made into the effect
of making an alteration in the Act, it was found that the
effect of that alteration would be to press severely on
parties entirely innocent. But provision must be made
against any future occurrence of the same kind ; and that
lotteries, which by common consent ought to be put
down, should not again take place.
After a few observations by Lord G. SOMERSET and
Mr. WYNN, the conversation dropped.