The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-16 00:00:00

seats. If it should be bunt ait, thev.incip4 of reform
could not he cattier: on, ISglikbers woulailf)
receive the approbati-)o e the most moderate of their
constituents. He thought tiny were bound to call upon
these who were absent to be at their pc,st4, and to be
prepared, in case any great event sl•ou!d occur respecting
this Bill. They were only doing their duty when they
inf rred that such might possibly be the case ; and if any
difficull should arise, the public would undoubtedly ex-
pect their representatives to be at their posts. He (Sir J.
W.) felt obliged fur the attention the House had given to
his observations; and would conclude by moving, as an
amendment to the original question, that the House he
called over on Thursday next.

Sir B. PEEL should not enter into any long discussion.
He deprecated the adoption of such a motion as that of the
Hon. Baronet. The Hon. Baronet had stated two reasons
in favour of his proposition, to neither of which could he
(Sir R. Peel) give his ass-nt. The first cf th,:se reasons
was, that there were several highly important matters
which had not sufficiently received the attention of :be
House. It was quite true that the question of West India
slavery, the question of the renewal of the Bank Chart-r,
and that of the East India Company, were still to b-
considered ; hut he was not aware that the House could
be justly charged with remissness. O❑ the Bank Charter
there had been great discussion, and the sense of the House
had been so strortgy expressed, that the Noble Lotd (Al-
thorp) had consented to postpone the subject. If upon the
East Indiln question no great discussion had arisen, the
-proper inference to be drawn from that circumstance was,
that there had been no great opposition to the plan pro
posed. On the question of NV, st India slavery, there had
been as full and detailed a discussion as upon any subj et
which he recollected. It was, besides, impossible, by a
call of the House, to compel the attendance of Han.
Members, if they were inclined not ►o attend to their
duties ; but he denied that they were so inclined. Their
at endante must be left to their own sense of duty ; and
agreed with his Honourable Friend, that it would be
the /fiery of Hon Members, in the case to which the
Hon. Thronet had alluded, to attend in their places.—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet had mentioned a second
reason in favour of his motion, to which he (Sir H.
Re!) had still greater objectio,s than to his fortner
that, in stating which, he had referred to the other
branch Of the Legislature. He decidedly objected to any
ptoee,ding founded upon rumours of speeches in the
oler Hou•e Parliament, which could not, in a Par-
liamentary way, be considered to be within their cog-
❑'zarecr.

ti
,

Sir J. WROTTESLEY observed, as we gathered
from the explanation of Sir Robert Peel, Chit he spoke of
speeches of persons elsewhere, and had only referred gene-
rally to the t ights of the House of Commons.
Sir 11 PEEL was aware that be was overstating the
strict sense of the Ilon. Baronet's remarks. He was
aware that the Hon. Baronet had only said that there
were certain individuals who had declared the measure to
be a measure of spoliation. At the same time, the eff ct
was the same as he had stated, and he implored the House
not to adopt the opinions expressed by the Hon. Baronet.
in a parliamentary view, the rumours respecting speeches
in the other House could never be consPered sufficient
ground for founding proceedings upon. He would say
nothing of what the House had a right to do if the
necessity for it should arise ; but this he would say, that
any measure ought to be deprecated which could in the,
slightest degree tend to control or menace in any way the
fro, deliher ition of. the House of Lords. Now, th re was no
reason to believe that their Lordships had declared them -
seise s ageinst the NI, It had been read a first time, and
the r,-solutions htd been assented to upon which it was
founded. W,re they, on the mere rumour of speeches
(fir it was en beret), to adopt proceedings which would
imp'y such susyicions of their Lordships' intention, ? Such
a course , ould be contrary to all precedent. It would be
assuming that of which they could know nothing. It
would be con rolling the independent decisions of men of
honour, who were actuated by no personal abjscts, but did
what they thsuelit best for the good of the country.—
( Hear, hear.) Such a course would lead to the conclusion,
that tt e pidsi ns who proposed it had their objects to
answsr by it. When the necessity should arise, he re-
peveil, the House of Commons had undoubtedly the right
tot ,he the course proposed; but they had no right, on the
mere rumen( of speeches, in any manner to hold control
over an independent branch of the Legislature. He con-
cluded by expressing his earnest wish that the Hon. Ba-
ronet would withi'raw his amendment.
Cul. HAY expressed his hope that he would not with-
draw it ; and if no other Member should take it up, he
himself would.
Mr. O'CONNELL also expressed his hope that the
anot'on would not he withdrawn. The Hon. Baronet ought
to stand by his 'notion. It was right that Members should
be at the-ir posts, if any crisis should arts to cal: ftr th
united efforhs. The Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had said
that the ore ~IT V was one fur which there WAS no precedent
—;argetting that, for the last century it was impossible
that there should heve been any precedent; for the
Ilanse of Commons, during that period, had only
been another instalment of the House of Lords. They
could nor. quarrel with their masters ; but they (the pre-
sent House of Commons) had no masters. If any Govern
mr nt tv re sine of being opposed the moment they
atti thp•ed to do a popular act, it was unquestionably the
duty of the Members of the House of Commons to he at
their post., arid to do their utmost that the good of the
p- ople should be the only object of both Houses of
Parliament. There was no one less attached than he
was to the Church Temporalities Bill. He considered
it only a miserable instalment towards the payment of
what was justly due to the people of Ireland. Still he
would have it rather than nothing at all.
An HON. Mamaan. here asked, as we understood, why
he (Mr. O'Connell) voted against it?
Mr. O'CONNELL concluded by observing that he
would give the amendment his hearty support, and that
he trusted that the ItIou•e would show itself determin--d to
do jtastice to the people.
Colonel EVANS expressed his surprise at seeing his
two Bon. Friends, who had both voted against the Bill
.question, now so strenuous advocates for it. lie was
convinced the public were no more alarmed about the
passing of the Church Temporalities Bill than any other
Bill. No doubt there was a strong feeling in its favour in
that House, but it was little participated by tt e
Mr. O'CONNELL observed, in explanation, be had
nut spoken in praise of the Bill, but had argued that, if
they could not get that trifling measure passed through the
House of Lords, a fortiori it would be still more difficult
to get a better measure posed.
Mr. ROBINSON, as well as we could collect his first
sentence, observed that it would be the greatest hypocrisy
to pretend to conceal that the attendance in the House of
Commons had fallen off lately ; but the present attendance
showed there was no relaxation of the efforts of the House.
He thought, upon the whole, the most prudent course
would be to adopt the suggestion of the Hon. Baronet (Sir
R. Peel), and wait till they should see what course the
Lord,' adopted. It a crisis should arise, it would then be
time to have recourse to the other measure. Could it be
intended as a direct manifesto against the House of Lords ?
Would the people consider it in any other light ? How
could they consider it otherwise? The Hon. Member,
after stating, amid some laughter, that he would neither
vote one way nor the other, if the amendment were
pressed to a division, conc!uded by expressing a loupe that
Pie Hon. Baronet wott!il withdraw his motion.
PENISON thought that the course propo-ed was
wrong. Ile bad never heard before of a motion aotici-
patory of a deelsion of the House of Lords, and he con-
sidered it nowise. He thought it would imply a great
Aaj.gtving of the other House of Parliament, anti tt.at it
,:would i.e a prat dero tore from their own dignity to
Attempt to anticipate what would be the course of heir
proeeedings. If the House of Commons over-
stepped its privileges, it would he an invitation to a'l other
asasmoiies hgally or illegally constituted to overstep theirs
—( flear)—ead if they passed this measure, he
sin-
cerely believed that they would be pushing their prtyPeges
too far ; but he also sincerely believed that they would not
pass the motion. He hoped the lion. Baronet would he
induced to withdraw it. That, in his opinion, was the
wisest, the safest, the most dignified course.
Lord EBRINGTON said the House surely had a
right, on the occasion of a measure which they considerel
just—and no one who looked at this without prejudice
%A mild say that this was not just—to make inquiries
on
the subject of the rumour which had plevailed, particu-
larly duriT:g the. last two days, and he considered that
rumour :tall sufficient ground for a motion, which simply
nt to secure a tu:l atler.dance, anti inettre the pet fornernee
of their duty to tl-.eir constituents and to themselves. He
confessed I,e considered the rumour so incredible and
absurd—(Hear, tear)—that it would obtain no cri donee
among Memhers that House; but they were calcu'ated
to produce an impression upon their constituents ; upon
the rniod of the country, particularly in distant parts.
Were they not calculated to lead their constituents to wish
and to feel that it WaS the duty of their representa ives to
be at their pests if a ctisia should arise, which chunnhn
report led them to expect ? Ile should be the last noon to
advocate any measure of intimidation towards the House
of Lords; but his sentiments were in accordance w,th
those of the lion. Mover. It must be recollected that the
Bill had been brought forward in concurrence with the
2,ol..Eittlf(Y4o3ill ; Ministers were consequeory ottt:pe;ed
ts,ttstence as t Goverrint, nt upon ti e • rt ess
e
u would be the consequence .•1 the
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