The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-08 00:00:00

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of the Government, then, to extract from that Bill all
that was objectionable, and retain and propose for the ap-
proval of the Legislature as much as appeared to be useful.
The Government, when they came to consider the sub•
ject of the Bill, found the provisions so mixed up and com-
plicated, that it would be impossible for them without the
gravest consideration, to frame an amended measure on the
subject. The present Bill was a continuance Bill,
it was true, but by the provisions of the Act
it would expire on the Ist of May and thus
A pledge and security would be given to the House
that the subject would be then placed in the hands of the
House, And brought under its consideration. The Govern-
inept had bestowed the best attention they could upon the Bill,
and it was their opinion that the proposed course was the best
course which could be adopted under the present circumstances.
With rejard to the measures which had been introduced to
the House, nothing would have been more desirable than to
obviate the him:
venience which it was propooed to save by this
Bill. There were
several objections which he enter-
tained to this Bill, which he had most reltletaotly
introduced to the House,
. hut.in:e
earhlyo
viate those objections by introdu..._
a Bill on behalf of Government,
evils which he anticipated from the Bill in its hoped
dext thsesstiobt;
which would prevent the
prey
shape.
ORANGE LODGES.
On the order of the day for going into a Committee for
supply being read,
Mr. HUME begged to ask a question respecting the Orange
lodges in Ireland, which had been stated by her Majesty's
GoVeeurnent as dangerous to the public peace. He saw
by the n7Pera that those lodges had been revived
in that country, and he wished to know whether any measures
had been taken to prevent the revival of these lodges, and for
the support of the public peace 7
Mr. L ABOUCIif RE was aware thgt this system of Orange
lodges was dangerous to the public peace in Ireland, but his
Hen. Friend whose duty it Ras to take this btesioess under his
care was not in the House, and he could not therefore himself
answer the question, but he might eay that they were now
under the consideration of Government.
LUNATIC ASYLUMS.
In reply to an inquiry from Mr. OSBORNE, ae to when
the Lunatic Aylums Bill would be brought on,
Mr. LABOUCHERE stated, this not being in his depart-
ment, he could nut reply, but would ascertain, and let the
Hon. Member know.
ABOLITION OF EXCLUSIVE TRADING.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that he had presented a petition
on this subject from an individual, who was now in waiting in
great anxiety. The Right Hon. Member for Dungarvan (Mr.
Shell) had a motion on the paper for to-night, but as it might be
postponed, he wished to know whether it was the intention to
maintain the principles of the Bill ? An endeavour had been
made to abolish the privileges obtained by certain parties • but
unless it could be shown that they had abused those privileges,
he (Mr. Duncombe) thought they ought not to be abolished.
If they were abolished, it would be but just to institute a Com-
mittee of Inquiry to ascertain 'whether they had abused their
privileges before they were deprived of the rights they had
attained.
Mr. LABOU t.:tirstt.E era nui, via.. the Honourable Mem-
ber for the inquiry that had been made, which was probably
rendered necessary by the misapprehension that existed with
regard to the Bill that had been brought in by the late Secre-
tary for Ireland with respect to the corporations of Ireland,
He confessed that the privileges that existed at present sp-
eared to him perfectly unnecessary, and not to be justified.
SUGAR DUTIES.
On the bringing up of the report on the Sugar Duties Bill,
Mr. BERNAL said that he did not wish to say anything
against the reduction of the duty on the article of rum, even if
that came before the House, but with respect to that portion
of the measure with which he was connected, he would submit
that any new regulations which might be framed should be
considered as early as possible, in order to command a discus-
sion in the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it
had been his duty to give notice that in the course of going
into Committee on the Customs' duty, he would propose a
reduction of the duty on rum to the extent of 6d. a gallon.
Mr. PROTHEROE said that he wouldlake that oportunity
of asking the Secretary to the Treasury a question with regard
to grievances now existing in the Post-office. His Hon.
Friend the Member for Finsbury bad presented a petition that
evening from Thomas Mitchell, a sub- sorter in the Post-
office.—(Cries of " Order, order,") amidst which the Hon.
Member sat down.
Mr. HUME must say that the speech of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was very unsatisfactory. He understood from
him, and from the Noble Lord, that something was to he done,
and it turned out something is promised to be done, but it is
open to discussion. Those who had agreed to this Bill, agreed
to it under the positive declaration of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, that they should be prepared to carry out, as soon as
possible, measures to relieve those duties, and to put the im-
ports from the colonies in the same position as those from other
countries.
Ihe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
was not aware that he had in the slightest degree altered what
he said before. His Hon. Friend knew perfectly well that
what he bad said before was to be perfectly auhered to. What
he had said before. he then repeated.
Mr. HU NlE—What did you say before?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (as we un-
derstood) said that he had before proposed, that any alterati .n
in duties which the colonies themselves should suggest, should
he agreed to by her Majesty.
The report was then received, and the Bill ordered to be
read a third time at twelve o'clock to-morrow.
AI ILI FA RY FLOGGING.
Lord J. RUSSELL said—Sir, in rising to move the order of
the day for going into Committee of Supply, I will answer those
inquiries which have been made by Hon. Members with respect to
corporal punishment, and in so doing, I can only generally state
what is to be done by the Commander-in-Chief of the army;
and before I do so, I beg to state that I wish neither to have
the credit of suggesting any alteration which the Commander-
in-Chief has thought proper to make, nor do I wish, on the
other hand, to shrink from any responsibility with
regard to the limit at which the Commander-in-Chief has
stopped, and has determined not to comply with what appears
to be the wish amongst some—that there should be a total
abolition of corporal punishment. I say, therefore, that the
plan which has been at present adopted, is the plan of
the Duke of Wellington, and one which he has deter-
mined on. He thinks, as matters stand at pre-
sent, corporal punishment ought not to be abolished.
I have a paper here which shows what are the present regula-
tions with respect to corporal punishment. By the articles of
war no offender convicted before a general court-martial should be
liable to be sentenced to receive corporal punishment not exceed-
ing 200 lashes ; before a garrison court-martial not exceeding
150 lashes, or before a regimental court-martial not more than
100 lashes. Now, the Duke of Wellington having taken this
subject into his consideration, has given directions to the
officers to whom the duty appertains of ordering such
corporal punishment, that by no court-martial of
any kind, whether general, district, garrison, or regimental,
shall any gfeater punishment he inflicted than fifty lashes—
(Cheers)—a very considerable diminution, which the Com-
mander-in-Chief has ordered with respect to the army. He
has, at the same time, given special directions that every
precaution should be taken in order to ascertain
the state of any offender who may be sentenced
to receive corporal punishment, that his health is such
that he appears in so robust a state of health as to be able
to bear the punishment. He has likewise directed that every
other circumstance should be attended to—whether the extreme
heat of the weather, or any severity in the state of the
weather, or any other circumstances whatever which
might make the indiction of such punishment dangerous to the
offender sentenced to receive it. Such, then, are the
directions, which have been given by the Commander-
in-Chief, applying directly to corporal punishment. Now,
Sir, I know that ray Hon. Friend the Member for
Bolton (Dr. Bowring) has given notice for that purpose,
that corporal punishment should be at once totally abo-
lished.—( Hear, hear.) I think every one must desire, and I
am sure the Government desire, that it may be possible to
keep the army in a right state of discipline without the
inflict ion of any corporal punishment whatever.—
( Cheers.) I should be glad, for my own, part to
see that day when corporal punishment shall be
entirely abolished.—(Renewed cheers.) But, Sir, I do think
that the maintenance of discipline in the army
.is a paramount
object.—( Hear.) I consider that a well disciplined soldiery
is a protection to the country to which they belong—a terror to
the enemy which they have to meet, and that an ill
disciplined soldiery, is, on the other hand, a terror to the coun-
try to which they belong, and a scorn to the enemy they have
to encounter.—( Hear, hear.) I, therefore, consider that the
Duke of Wellington is perfectly right in making the
present reduction which he has made, without taking any
ulterior steps, because, if we are to look for the abolition of
corporal punishment, and at the same time to the maietenance
of discipline, which I think I perceive this House feels as highly
as I myself have just stated it—( Hear, hear)—it is only
by two modes that it can be effected.—(Hear, hear.) The
one is by substituting some other mode of punishment for
effecting a higher state of discipline than the one hitherto in
operation ; and the other is, by so ehanging the moral feeling of
those belonging to the army, that other motives and other
modes of government would have greater effect in influencing
their conduct than those now employed.—(Hear, hear.)
To both these objects have the attention of those
connected with the management of the army been
from time to time directed. The commanding officers
of the army have had the subject under their consideration—
both Lord Hill and the Duke of Wellington. The various
Secretaries at War have also had their attention called to the
question—Lord Hovviek, Mr. Macaulay, Mr. Sidney Herbert,
and ,the present Right Hon. Gentleman who occupies that
office. With respect to other kinds of punishment, the
subject was fully considered by the Commission which
sat on the question in 1835. Different modes were
then suggested both with regard to military
prisons and solitary confinement ; for great advances
have since then been made in carrying out the recommenda-
tion of that Commission. A considerable number of prisons
have been constructed, others are in progress • besides, altera-
tions in several prisons ore proposed, in order to make them
available for the purposes suggested. But as yet the system is
not in complete operation. I have in sty possession several ac-
counts of the new prisons in progress, in order to give effect to
punishment by means of imprisonment. New prisons are
erecting in Dublin and Cork. In Canada the military prisons
are in progress, but as yet they are not in a complete state.
In Gibraltar and the lonian Islands new prisons are to be con-
structed. For Nova Scotia plans for a new prison have been
submitted, and for the West Indies the officers of the army
have the subject under consideration with the object of erect-
ing a prison, so far the suggestions of the commissioners have
been carried into effect. With regard to cells for the purpose
of short terms of imprisonment the subject has been under the
consideration of an old friend of mine ; and he has proposed a
plan upon the subject. The late Government had also en-
gaged the services of Major Jeff on this subject. A number of
cells have been constructed, the result of these deliberations,
but the system is in its greatest features as yet but new, and
but partially introduced. With regard to the extent
to which corporal punishment has been carried
out, I am happy to be enabled to say that
this mode of punishment has been considerably diminished of
late, in consequence of other modes of punishment being car-
ried into effect. The returns I have in my possession will
show the extent to which this diminution has taken place.
The returns are from 1838 till now :
COOSORAL PUNISHMENT IN THE ARMY IN PROPORTION TO
THE WHOLE OF THE FORCE-
In 1838 1 in 108 In 1842 1 in 140
In 1839 1 in 122 In 1843 1 in 194
In 1840 1 in 129 In 1844 1 in 194
In 1841 lin 126 ' In 1845 lin 189
The ratio, therefore, is, that about one man in every 190
rptehecraectives corporal punishment in the course of the year. Now,
if any one can consider and reflect what was the state of
corporal punishment in the army formerly, they cannot but
perceive that
tthahe ttuhuemnbuemrbeorf
lashes, of
has receiving
beengreatly
r punishment,eatly
diminished.and
With regard to the second mode which I havestated, by which
corporal punishment may be reduced, and may at lengthal together
itnhperssoeldtliceer, iasndby
be a abolished
ai
tion
ef
of an offence more than themrtaehk: eimuepnroveefmthenetpuonf
punishment—
emmenotr—al
lbweietah
distributed
dct
for
a eerie making hima a
tf enaermt the
ee r commission
a n g es
goodview.
have
bconA-
(Hear, hear)—and in the fiyhreasatvreps
greathave tankuemnbeprlaocfe of
rewardslate
duct, and more frequent commissions in the a
bestowed upon private soldiers. Between the 31st oyf December
and the present time, no less than thirteen commissionsr
have Leen given to private soldiers.—( Hear, hear.) With re-
-1 spect to the improvement of their minds, my Hon. Friend
stated the pains which had been taken to establish libraries its