The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-01 00:00:00

against him some days ago, of having made three-
and-twenty blunder., in three resolutions. It was
. promised that the duties on British double-refined
sugar should be reduced from 19s. 6d. per cwt.
to 18s., and on single-refined sugar from 16s.
4d. to 155.; but that boon was nothing at
all if it was nut accompanied by the assurance
that the British colonies should be permitted to refine in
bond. What must the trade in this country think of a
'Government which came down to that House, after
seven weeks' consideration, with a measure which was
full of blunders, and without consulting, until the last
moment, the Chairman of Customs or the Chairman of
Excise on the three resolutions levying certain rates of
-duty on sugar, the growth and produce of any foreign
country? They had thrown overboard the project of re-
fining in bond for home consumption, and were now en-
couraging refining in the colonies. In Belgium they
bad a bounty duty of 3s. or 4s. on the export of Dutch
refined sugar, and for the increase of these bounties in
this country ho had given notice of his amendment. He
bad kept to the fixed scale of descending duties of the
old Act. The Right Hon. Gentleman had promised the
British interest a great boon, which he was now de-
sirous to withhold. The loss which he feared was not
real. He concluded by moving to leave out of the reso-
lution the words, " on such sugar not otherwise charged
with duty."
Mr. LABOUCHERE defended the resolution.
Mr. WILSON thought the resolution of the Noble
Lord would have the most injurious effects. Suppose
Rolland were to give a preference to the United States
for cotton, instead of England, what would the indigna-
tion of the Noble Lord be, when he recollected that by a
Special treaty with this country they were bound to admit
goods from it, as from the most favoured nation? Mr.
Deacon Hume laid down that in all goods exported from
this country to others there was no ground whatever
for stating from whence they originally came; and on
that account he contended that to violate the principle at
that moment would be most impolitic and unjust. There
was one very important point in the Noble Lord's motion
to which be should beg leave to call the attention of the
West India interest, as a most prejudicial course of pro-
ceeding. Whatever reduction may take effect in sugar,
it was absolutely necessary that it should be made to
the consumer, in order to increase the consumption. The
Hon. Gentleman then went into a variety of details, to
show that in almost every case of reduction since 1845,
the colonies were not benefited in the degree that might
be expected. He therefore thought that if the motion
of the Noble Lord was carried out, instead of being an
advantage, it would prove most injurious to the West
Indian interests. He believed the introduction of Dutch
• anger into this country was a matter of policy, and
ought not to be rejected.
Mr. GOULBURN contended that the admission of '
1;' • Dutch sugar under the terms proposed by the Bill would
;r have the most serious effects, and be a great hardship to
other countries trading with this.
Mr. DISRAELI understood the Right Honourable
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade to say
there was only one point in the speech of his Noble
Friend which required consideration. Now he thought
' there was another point in his Noble Friend's speech,
and that was, that if Dutch sugar was admitted as
proposed, the question ought to have been submitted to
arliament as early as May last. Not a single word
"vas then said of it, although, as had been observed by
Vae Right Honourable Gentleman, who seemed to have
:anger legislation immediately under his care, it was a
Vestion of high policy. It was not brought before the
eat Indian Committee by any Member of the Govern-
,
'me and, as he had said before, not a word was said of
it in the month of May last. Now as to the second
point, namely, domestic refinement, or that which al-
lowed British merchants to have the power of refining in
bond. What was the fact? They examined witnesses
bearing on that point before the Committee, and pro-
mised relief in that way in the House; but now the pro-
ject appeared to have been abandoned. Ho complained
that the Government had attempted to carry this ques-
, Lion without laying before the House sufficient data in
order to justify the course of the legislation proposed to
be pursued.
After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER,
Mr. GLADSTONE said it might be strict equity to
admit the Dutch refiner to come into competition with
the home refiner; but then the case was very different
when the Dutch refiner had the assistance of his own
Government by means of bounties to place him in a
better position than he would otherwise be in if he were
only to rest upon his own energies. In that case the
Eititiah refiner was placed in an unequal position as re-
garded the competition of the Dutch refiner.
Lord J. RUSSELL asked whether the Right Hon.
Gentleman would have one rule f br Holland and another
liamburgh? He did not t' wink he would. Then,
would he
propose to .make a d iference between sugar
not grown in Holland and sugar manufactured in it? He
thought that would act unfair, curably for this country,
because it would Rive Holland an opportunity of making
a distinction between cotton taanufactured in this coun.
try and the cotton of the United States. The Right
.I.l4.o.oen.thGatentthey
Gentleman: said that eney could give Holland no-
would terminate the treaty. But the Right
Gentleman must cousi.der that the treaty was not
ridconfined
gene-
trade to refined sugar, but that it regulated the gene-
be, in oredr to
between Holland and this country, and would
exclude refined sugar, give Holland an
• opportunity of increasing the differential duty on the
manufactured goods of this country, thereby giving an
advantage to the manufactures of France, Germany, and
the United States? But did the refiners of Holland
derive any advantage from her bounty ? He did not
deny that there might be some apparent advantage
an the bounty. But in the first place thero was
great difference of opinion whether there was any real
bounty or not; and in the next, they found a great
finer in Holland saying that it was a disadvantage.
out what was conclusive to his mind on the subject was
that the refiners of this country were able to compete
With those of Holland in their markets.—(Hear, hear.)
Ae was not surprised that the Noble Lord who advo-
cated protection should advocate the exclusion of refined
sugar from Holland, but that the Right Hon. Gentleman
-Who followed a different principle should do so, very
much. surprised him.
Mr. HERRIES said the whole question at issue was
cue of adjustment, and he denied that the principle pro-
Pored to be acted on was one of free trade.
After a few words from Mr. Urquhart, Col. Thomp •
so a. and Lord G. Bentieck,
°The Rouse divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
• Majority --53
The other resolutions were then agreed to, and
The CHANCELLOR of tho EXCHEQUER pro-
Posed that progress be reported to-morrow (this day),
and that the House sit in Committee upon the Bill on
Thursday.

THE RUM DUTIES.
The Ruin Duties Bill was. read a third time.
SUPPLY—ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
The House then went into Committee of Supply.
Colonel ANSON, in rising to move the Ordnance Es-
timates, not yet voted, said, that the delay which had
taken place in moving these estimates had arisen en-
tirely from the House having thoug'at it desirable to re-
fer them, with the military and naval estimates, to the
investigation of a Committee up-stairs ; that Committee
had now been sitting for five month; j, and its labours had
resulted in a report on the naval estimates. With re-
ference to the ordnance estimates, there seemed to be au
impression abroad that, because t) key were double what
they were in 1828, there was nee. ossarily great extrava-
gance chargeable upon the depart! nent ; but such was not
the fact. He was prepared to sh ew that every item of
which they were composed, as w till as the amount under
each item, was essential to the vfliciency of the service.
The House had already voted the main por-
tion of the money requirect for this department.
lie would now go briefly through the re-
maining items, giving in relat;ion to each particular such
- further explanation as might be subsequently demanded.
The first vote he should sub mit was for the pay, allow-
ances, and contingencies ,Jf ordnance military corps.
nT.ohteoinnicyrease in this department he was sure would be
assented to, but approved of by the country.
was generally admitted that our artillery force pecu-
'VIIIY should be kept in a, state of complete efficiency, and
." had accordingly been deemed essential to make consi-
derable additions to this force, the total increase in the
4'ttimate being 89,0154 upon a total estimate of 716,2541.
The second vote was for commissariat and barrack sup-
plies for her Majesty's forces, great-coats for the army,
clothing for the colonial corps, &c., the amount being
'41,0311. Here there was also an increase, in the par-
ticular items, necessarily arising from the increase
of
the forces to be supplied; but in consequence of a
re-distribution of other items, there would be a ditni-
;ovation in the total sum asked, as compared with last
year'
of 54.4331. The next vote was 94,1361. for the ex-
;exit abeoifngthleesos by 5,3111.
offices at the Tower and Pall.
5,311/. than the sum voted last year.
Ika_di.lugh the work performed at these offices had ma-
Zrie a:ly'ieereased. The fourth vote was for establish-
beinga i the United Kingdom and Colonies, 235,6461..
idtaidran inarease upon the vote of last year of 7,5161.
ynosttathviink that when the nesessary extent of our
tiast considered,
that WO leas at home and abroad was
iv._ a d be considered excessive, but he admitted
one
keep close
WantePoh a which the House would naturally
chiefly from the extension•The
winhcircehasehaidn tbheeenvotdeeearnreesde
essential. of ourbar!aek establishments, more particu:
had been calculateduith
larly in Ireland,
which part of the kingdom it
lay this ere would be an additional out
Year, under the head in question, of 10,2421. In
:or 5, a very large increase -
would be observed; this
e was for wages of artificers and labourers in the
United Kingdom and colonies, 137,8521., being an in-
! e_r.ease
_of not less than 20,7151. It had been considered
i et the highest importance to lose no further time in the-
: rc'eghly completing the efficiency of our artificer depart-
• went, More especially at Woolwich, but it was to be
o:r_ rte in mind that the result of this greater efficiency,
d of the machinery which was being extensively intro-
`ficed• Would be ultimately to reduce the expense of this
;:nartment, The next vote was stores, 463,7431., being
scrl. beyond the suns voted last year under this head.
•_'•;Le could assure the Committee, however, that not one
*lngle shilling had been added beyond what was deemed
teeessary. The store of small arms, for instance, had
r"eea considered altogether inadequate to the require-
ellta of the public service, and an increase, accordingly,
been made in this particular item to the extent
20,0004 This very increase, however, would keep ture estimates down. The next item was for ord-
' Ranee stores of every description ; 38,000/, for entrench.
log ; 25,0002 for camp equipages, the store of
:etch had fallen very short ; 20,0001. for saltpetre and
74ePowder. In the royal carriage department there was
de2 (and this would go but
;afore sall way); for the
oratory at Woolwich 50,000/.
_Partment 40,000/.; making altogether 273,000/. For
"hoot and shell there was an addition of 14,000/. over the
vest() of last year. The various other items were much
'V 8 anle as in the estimates of the previous year, but
the rintilt was that they had to ask the souse to