The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-07 00:00:00

EXCISE LAWS.

In answer to a question of Mr. CO WAN,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
tvio.Bills had been prepared on the subject of the
Lactse-laws with respect to spirits, an,: were now

ready to be laid before the House. They were proposed / same effect. It was not alone in the lodging-houses
to effect a relaxation of the existing saw, and he hoped : that tempta'ions to vice existed. Even in the outer air
in such a way as to give general satisfaction. It was his 1 boys were exposed to influences which were so delete-
intention to make a statement to the House explanatory risme to their morals as to render any escape hopeless.
of the objects of the Bill, but he had hitherto been pre- i He would read a description of a court which he saw
chided doing so; he did not expect that he would be himself; it was only a sample out of a hundred of others.
able to du so until after Whitsuntide. i In one there was only three privies to 300 houses; two
WICKLOW ELECTION. ito 200 in another. In those places scenes of the most
The SPEAKER acquainted the House that he had ; shocking character were of daily occurrence, so that all
received a communication from the petitioners complain- i sense of modesty and decency was entirely lest.—(Hear,
ing of an undue election and return for the county of hear.) In some places several families lived in one room,
Wicklow, stating that it was not their intention to pro• and where one family were so fortunate us to hare a
room to themselves the adults and the children lay ceed with the said petition.
REPAYMENT OF THE IRISH LOAN. , together, so that cleanliness was impossible, and scenes
I The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in of filth, misery, and vice were freLi oe me
frequent.—i(Hes.r, hear.)
answer to a question from Sir L. O'Brien, said it was ! This description would g
perfectly true that in some counties the judges had re- of the places where theseiv_e
becausechtilchildrendweslto,i‘a
le
fused togrant time for the payment of the first instal- this peculiar race was found in almost all instances
went of ale loan. It was his intention to propose to lite the most filthy, destitute, and titiknown parts
I
Parliament a clause postponing the payment of the first of the metropolis—places aside n trod by a person
instalmeut until after the summer assizes. of decent habits.—(Hear, hear.) 'These
se localities wore
Sir L. O'BRIEN said it would be a great relief to mostly in the neighbourhood of uncovered sew,rs, stag-
the public mind in Ireland if an order to that eff,ct nant ditches, rind niehtmezi s yards, from which the soil
were issued from the Trestle)", in those counties where i was seldom or never removed. It was not possible for
measures were in progress for compelling immediate any language to convey ai adequate idea of the p iison-
payment. ous condition of these pieces, occasioned by the mass of
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said i putrifying matter. These statements were by no means
the Government had no power to issue any such order ;i an exaggeration. of the facte—(hear, hear.) Ile would
the parties could only be relieved by Parliament from not assert them
.if he was not
losing
to do Si on his own
personal authority; for after
their legal liability.
BRIDUE OVER THE CLYDE.—EXPLANA- he devoted a portion of his time to se(be)feitwi.hhaetd the poor
he
TIONS, were doing in those haunts whichw
twh•
Mr. F. MACKENZIE said the Hon. Gentleman tho decent person.—(Loud Lo
Honourable aehhl: eltris Members bielres
tion that was below eeretr
weak
eakwsatsa sure they would say that he
Secretary to the Admiralty had stated, on a thrtner oc- gavea deevsacirlhsopi
casion, in answer to a question respecting the withdrawal could pr
of the veto of the Admiralty in the case of a railway "o
m p adney but ali;
bridge over the Clyde, that the board had been wait,.statement, and that they would
on by a deputation who professed to represent the. a,t:l• hadnot restma t‘ivllittlhieyrehspaedes.twteopttfhreompitihyesicfaacle
aonfdthepeinrist)rnoa•l
thorities of Glasgow, headed by the Earl of Eglin„thttti) Lelairs.)this paralysing and abominable mischief.—(Hear,
and the two representative): of Glasgow. No one
knew the Noble Lord would suppose that he was capable ' condition of these children, Dr. Ardis says, " they are
of making any unfounded representation as to the cape- emaciated,apnat.ilep,a.ainnsditnhdinitf,
edreepnrtespsaerdtsionfstphierith,owd•yit.h
They
rheaatireetfhpetaynl e . I
squalid,nt e m p er a n
sickly,ce. ''
and
irr i
tabl persone:, says,lhe
city in which he appeared; and as the Hon. Gentleman._ appetites,k
l
consequence was their nervous temperament was so ex-
cistiettvehde they (Mr. Ward) had given in private an explanation of his
shtoapteedmehnet ,
would whichr
repent
t that
explanationto the
now,No I 1
as
sLpourhti
1, i
ells
ye
became susceptible to the slightest im-
ation alluded to pressions, and possessed great aptitude for acquiring
as the statement had been made.
Wknaoswstlerdocgtec.wiStillrt.hCohaacmotponneoysss,
andof 1,%. h
intelligencei t e chapel ,
Mr. WARD said that when the deputation
been .
waited on the Board of Admira.ltay theygrea great
hdaedalofern:
mediately succeeded by another,
oslaytshehsee
subject; the
versatiou passed with each on the samehad children; but ho makes the remark that they were
naturally
conversation was almost unbroken, and he equally susceptible of lesrniag what was bad as what
,
conceived that the two deputations formed in fact one, was good, and that hundreds of them were driven to
arid were connected together. He was certain that the vicious courses and died at en early ago. They were
Earl of Eglintou had ne more knowledge of the mistake generally unfit fur employment at first, owing to phy-
committedhad the Earl of Auckland or himself
than ; sisal defects; and five of the picked children of the
he
oretherefoe entirely acquitted the Noble Lord of hay- schools, for whom he was offered employment by the
tion to mislead the Admiralty.
mg any n First Lord of the Admiralty, were not able to pass the
IRISH. POOR-LAWS. necessary examinations. When, however, they were
t T.T. said that a circular having
Captain ARCHDa--- been for six months accustomed to better ficd and air, they
issued on the 23d of May by the Pour-law Commis- were as fit for employment as any other persons.
sinners of Ireland, which amounted to a total abroga- The following was the report of a City missionary
lion of the quarter acre clause, he wished to know who. who opened his house to all of this class who chose to
ther that (=cuter was issued with the sanction of the apply to him for advice and assistance:—From June to
Government, or whether the Poor-law Commissioners December he received 2,343 visitors, being an average
took it on themselves to drive a coach and four through of 332 a month. Of these 39 confessed that they had
the Act of Parliament.'
been in prison; 11 per cent. that they were confined
Sir W. SORER VILLE said that if the Hon.
Gentle- once; four per cent. twice; five per cent. three times;
man had given him notice of his question he should have two per cent. four times; two per cent. ten times. What
been better prepared with an answer. Speaking from were the causes? The causes arose from desertion, the
recollection, however, he believed the fact to be, that the bad example of parents where there were parents, and
Poor-law Commissioners issued the circular on the best in many instances from absolute necessity. Because of
legal advice. That advice was, that they could issue re- this they might be sure that there were hundreds and
lief to the wives and children of persons
out of the work- thousands in this town who never received a meal, and
house who refused to surrender their land. The Poor- never expected a meal except what they obtained by
law Commissioners would have incurred a grave respen- begging or stealing.—(Hear, hear.) Very many were
sibility if they refused relief to persons who were entitled led to crime by the receivers of stolen goods, and a great
to it under the law. It was the law, and not the Poor- deal of mischief arose from the sanitary condition in
law Commissioners, that the Hon. Gentleman ought to which they were left.—(Hear, hear.) He found from
complain of. the police reports that 62,181 persons, of all ages and
Slr J. GRAHAM asked whether there would be any both sexes, were taken into custody in 1847. Of these,
objection to lay the circular on the table? 40,702 wire females, and 41,479 were males. Those under
Sir %V. SOMERVILLE did not see any objection to 20 years of age were 15,698; between 10 and 15 years
doing so. The circumstances under which the circular 3,682; under ten years of age 362. Of the entire number
was issued were these. An individual living in Carrick 22,075 could neither read nor write, and 35.227 could only
on Shannon held twelve acres of land, which he refused read, or read and write imperfectly. Ile was not one of
to give up. It was • then believed that he should do so those who thought that mere literary attainments would
in ordered to be entitled to relief. The consequence be of much use in regulating the conduct of these per-
was that this persons died rather than submit to the sons; but the fact showed how much these young per-
law as it was supposed to be ; his wife also died ; and a sons had been neglected; 28,113 out of the 62,181 had
renort was received by the Poor-law Commissioners no trades or calling of any kind. Depend on it that in
that six of the children were Oa the point of death, these days such persons would be ten times more pare-
Under these circumstances the Poor-law Commissioners lysing than at other periods, if the House did not rouse
sought tor legal advice, to know if it was possible to itself to a mitigation, if not to the overthrow of the por-
save the lives of the children. It was the opinion of tentous evil.—(Hear, hear.) Let it be recollected that
Mr. Henn that the Poor-law Commissioners might, there was a great deal of the evil that never was seen,
under these circumstances, recommend to the guardians and he was afraid if the opportunity occurred that it
to extend relief to persons in the situation described, would surprise them one day with its gigantic propor-
without, in the first instance giving up their land, all hut tions.—(Bear.) He believed that the maj rity of these
a quarter of an acre. The Attorney-General concurred criminals arose out of this class, and though it might
in that opinion. not he possible to remove crime altogether, he thought
In answer to Mr. SADLEIR, that they could do a good deal to abate it. He would
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that he had no objection now turn to the intfuences to which the children were
to lay on the table the case submitted to Mr. Henn anti exposed. Every description of felony had increased,
the opinion he give. except as regarded thefts of linen, which had abated—a
‘1? 111 rsuN HOLIDAYS. result ascribable, as he firmly believed, to the provisien
Lord J. RUSSELL gavo notice that he should move of baths and wushhouses for the poor. Now, he wished
that the House at its rising on Friday do adjourn to the to point out the results of these schools. The opening
following Thursday. of them was absolutely a service of danger. The children
JUVENILE POPULATION OF THE METRO- came down to them in a state of insubordination. On
POLIS. the other side of the water there was ono school where
Lord ASHLEY said that though he had freouently sixteen young men came down smoking tobacco-pipes,
brought under the consideration of the House subjects and absolutely prevented instruction being proceeded
tiff,cting the condition of the poor of this country, he with until they had lefr. In another case inAgar-town,
did not believe that he ever submitted a motion of so the children absolutely barricaded the door. In a third
much importance as the present. Of the existence of case, a gentleman who went to teach in one of these
the evil he was about to bring under their notice no per- schools shook one of the boys ; the boy came behind
son could doubt who perambulated their streets and the. him and pushed him down, and had he not preserved
roughfares, and beheld the numbers of filthy an l ragged his dignity, by assuming that he had accidentally fallen,
children who squatted around the courts and alleys of the school would have been broken up. In another in-
the metropolis. When he had stated the facts respect- stance that he knew, a policeman, being called in to
ing the physical and moral condition of these persona to keep order, undertook to teach the boys, and such pe-
thtt House, he thought it mutt come to the conclusion pularity did he obtain, that he was christened " King
that an immediate remedy ought to be applied to abate of the Peelers." These boys were, in fact, not to
the evil which existed. It appealed to every sentiment be brought under ordinary rules. They had been sub.
of humanity and every notion of justice; and in reap. et ject to no domestic control, and they would have their
to the temper of the time and the age in which they lived own way. In the summer time it was very difficult to
it was a matter of vital importance fur the consideration of obtain their attendance. In the Broadway school the
those who consulted fur the safety of the metropolis. Ile number attending in winter was 200, whilst at this pe-
brought the subject forward at present principally riod of the year the Lumber was only 40. They could
with a view of exciting general interest on a matter only attend of an evening. They were also very migra-
that must become one of the most stirring questions tory. Out of 507 boys admitted into the Lambeth
that could occupy the attention of Parliament.—(Hear, school, early last year, very few attended a few months
hear.) He believed he might assume that the evil was after. A City missionary in that district declared his
acknowledged, though it was not fully estimateil. The belief that the population migrated every month. The
evil was peculiar in every respect, and it must be met Government were surely bound to do something to meet
by peculiar means. The belief generally entertained such an evil as this. It must be evident that the case
on the subject was, that the wandering vagabonds in was very peculiar—that there was no organizations
their streets were a few isolated persons, who could be fit to deal with it. He had heard it said that some-
easily extinguished by a little exertion on the part of thing of a system of national education ought to
the police, or at least reformed. A little inquiry, how- be adopted to meet these cases. But this eugges-
ever, showed that these persons formed a totally dis Lion raised the vezata picrstio what the character
(Met class, with habits, pursuits, and callings peculiarly of that education should be ? Another sugeestion
their own: they frequented the same retreats, and dwelt was, that grants should he male by the Educe-
in the same localities—for though they were ever shift- Lionel Committee, and that schools should be established
ing as individuals, they were stationary as a class— under an inspector. But where was the inspector
where they perpetuate i and multiplied their disorderly to be obtained? It would be next to impossible to get a
and filthy life. For this information they were indebted competent person. A third plan was, that large barracks
in a great measure to the London City missionaries, aided should be built for them out of London, and that they
by the Sunday-school teachers, whose patient and con. should be conveyed there in large numbers. But this
slant researches fathomed the depths of these haunts of system was a very injurious one, and had been found in
human misery.—(Hear, hear.) The first consideration our workhouses to be far from answering its object.
that arose was, as to the probable number of this par. Besides, one object, under this system, was totally lost,
titular class. It was not art easy matter to arrive at a viz., that of endeavouring, through the children, to effect
correct estimate as to their numbers, but from all the some reformation of adults. The only way the parents
inquiries he was able to to ike, he should say that the were to he approached was through the medium of
class of naked, filthy, deserted, roving, lawless persons, children. Hundreds upon hundreds cl instances could
the very seed plot of the crime of the metropolis, was not he given of it. Let him tell the 'Luse how ragged
less than 30,000. He meant this particular class as schools were carried on. There were about 60 of them
distinct from the ordinary poor, and he believed that in London and the suburbs. They were, in many in-
-30,000 was below the real numbers. He would now state stances, carried on in outhouses or converted stables.
what the peculiar habits and pursuits of this class were Reading, writing, and casting, were taught.
--the nature of their dwellings—he might say in a word, The Bible was read. 'The managers and teachers
their natural history. Upon an examination of fifteen consisted of psrsous of all denominations. His
schools, the number of persona in the books amounted to Right Honourable Friend (Sir James Graham)
2,345, whose ages ranged between fifteen and seventeen asked what was the religious teaching. There was a
years. The average attendance, however, was not more central committee called the Ragged School Union. That
than 1,600. Of these 162, or one-tenth, confessed that central board made grants, and required that the Bible
taey were in prison several times; 116 had run away should be read in those schools in all its integrity. In
from home ; 170 slept in lodging-houses, which were other respects the religious teaching was left to the local
the nests of everything abominable that the mind boards. All they demanded was, that the Bible, and the
of man could conceive ; 253 confessed that they lived whole Bible, should be read by the children. In ally-
altogether by begging ; 216 had no shoes or stockings ; thing that might be done for the advancement of this
280 had no caps, hats, or bonnets ; 101 had no linen ; system, it was in the highest degree necessary to guard
249 never slept in a bed. He could say of his own against detracting from the local zeal, or damping the
knowledge that many of the children could not recollect ardour of the voluntary efforts of the people. But, at
that they ever slept in bed. 68 were the children of the same time, such assistance might be given as would
convicts ; 125 had step-mothers, to whom might be preserve the principle of these schools in all its integrity.
traced much of the misery that drove the children of the The proposition that he made was, that the Government
Poor
to the commission of crime ; 306 had lost one or should agree to take from these schools every year 1,000
bothbot
.of their parents, the larger proportion having lost children, 500 boys and 500 girls, and should transplant
h The average attendance in all the schools last them to South Australia or one or other of our colonies.
year was about 4,000. Ot these 400 confessed they had He proposed that this should be a reward for good con
been in prison, 660 lived b• b •
y egging, 178 were the chip duct. He should not assign any time that they should
dreg of convict .5, and 800 had lost one or both of their be at the schools, because one child might be better qua-
parents. With respect to the employment of this class, lified in a shorter space than another ; all he wanted to
they might be distributed into
of inciters, sellers of oranges, weeers venders secure was a recompense for mural conduct. Now the
street 8 providers fur
advantagesof this would be indescribable.
and . tor
as . First, there
marine stores, which—llonoUr bt cakes,Membersthe stimulus which would be given to the schools.
be aware of the fact—was the eu h o might not was
doubt _
ohn us term for the He had. no that they would be much better sup-
receivers of stolen goods.—(ltearP r. The House ported if the rich saw that something practical was
would like to know how thieseea ) us passed gained by giving their money. Look at the benefits
persona . . , their lives, and how they found shelter against the wind that would be conferred on the children. They were
and weather—under arches, bridges, viaducts,
porticoes. not now three months in a school without aspiring to
sheds, carts, and outhouses; some slept in thehigher thing,and what would their ' • • •
be feelings if still
and some in lodging-houses. He recollected aobpoen air,
h important
were held out to them?
told him that last year, during the inclement part Yofwthoe Theymore
h advantages..
t be expected to walk in all the dignity of
winter, he passed a great portion of his time in the iron honestmig
• '
men and good citizens. At present, let them re-
roller in the Regent's Park.—(Laughter.) And to show member, the prison was no shame to them. It con-
the sympathy and good feeling which may exist, even stantly happened now that a boy
came to the school for
amongst this class, he told a companion that he would a few days—was then absent for a month or so then
let him in for a good thing, and communicated to him returned, and on b • eing questioned, replied " Very
the secret of the roller, and for the remainder of the sorry I could net come before, but had three weeks in
winter both of them passed night after night in the Bridewell." Hold out to theta this hope, and they
iron roller.—(Hear, hear.) He wouldl, now read to the might expect to sue the work of reformation established
1 House a description of the lodging houses, those abo- and a most healing influence might bo expected to be
minable sinks of all iniquity, where many of these per- produced. But then he came to the conditions. " Was
sons slept. It was the description of a City missionary, the plan proposed a practicable plan ?" Now
and it was by no means exaggerated. He says—" The the evidence trim all our Australian colonies
parlour "—fur be it observed they always speak , went to show the sad want of labour existing in
in euphonous language—" measures eighteen fret I them. Mr. Cutinirghatn, of Port Phillip, declared that
by ten feet ; hods are ranged on each side, I any species of labour could be employed there. Suppose
composed of straw, rags, and shavings. Here, in this 11,000 were sent out every year, how would they be die-
room, are 27 males and females, and 31 children-58 posed of? He was told that for every thousand sheep
human beings in this contracted space, from which light three persons were required with wages of 201. per
and air are systematically excluded. It is impossible to annum, a house, arid weekly rations. If but three per-
give a just idea of the state of the place. The quantity sons were sent to each station they might send at once
of vermin is astonishing. In a few moments I felt them ,to Australia 12,000 persons. For females the demand
dropping on my hat from the ceiling; they may be ga- was greater. He knew a case where a girl, just arrived
thered in handfuls. Of water there is nothing of the . from Englund, obtained 501. a year wages as a lady's-
sort; and one of the inmates broke a lamp in order to ! maid in Sydney. In Port Phillip the reeks were to the
be sent to prison, which he knew would procure him a . females as nine to one; whilst in this kingdom the ex •
cleansing."—(blear, hear.) Many of these lodging- cess of females over males, according to the last census,
honsee were exclusively receptacles for boys and girls of was 358,164. How much good, then, might be done by
a tender age. He need not state to the House what was transplanting some of the poor girls of London to our
the result of such a state of thins, and what a variety colonies. Nothing but resolution was required to effect
of circumstances stood in the way of any moral im- that object. He hoped he should not be met
by the im-
provement. He believed that seven-tenths of the crime swer that any system of emigration applied to these
of the metropolis was perpetrated by persons living in schools must be applied to all schools, for he had shown
these lodging-houses. The magistrates of Warwick that the cireumstauces of these schools were peculiar. He
and the authorities of Brighton made reports to the contended that crime was the most expensive state for the

country in which its lower population could be involved.
It was calculated by Mr. Smith, the manager of the
ragged school at Edinburgh, that every five pounds a
year paid for a child at the rigged school saved the
country, in mere money, from 11/. to 171. per annum, in
rescuing that child from becoming chargeable as a pri-
soner. There was an annual outlay of very nearly a
million of money for the prevention, detection, and
punishment of crime in and around London, and he was
well persuaded that a large proportion of this expendi-
ture—looking at the matter merely in a pecuniary point
of view—could be saved by the measure which he pro-
posed as a means of removing our poor children from
the sphere of temptation to a locality where they could
live honestly and happily by their own exertions. He
was convinced that it Government would take the ini-
tiative in this beneficial course, the example would be
gladly followed by the authorities in every over-popu-
lated district throughout the land. The Noble Lori
coecluded by moving, " 'That it is expedient the
means ba annually provided for the voluntary emigra-
tion, to some one of her Majesty's colonies, of a certain
number of young persons of both sexes, ho
schools'oghas.obe
been
educated in the schools ordinarily called ,
in and about the metropolis."
Sir 11. VERNEY cordially thanked the Noble Lord
for the proposition he had so humanely and ably brought
before the House, and expressed a hope that u similar
measure to that contemplated by him would be extended
to the while country. The rural population of England
scarcely, if at all, lees than the town population, urgently
needed such a relief as this. The only way to ()remake
the crime which so awfully weighed down the country
was by means of our youth. Remove these from the
sphere of temptation and the career of crime would at
once be interrupted.
Sir G. GREY said that no one could have listened to
the speech of his Noble Friend without a feeling of
deep interest. There could be no down, unhappily, of
the sadly demoralised condition of u very large propor •
tion of our juvenile population ; and th greatest
credit was due to those persons, of all classes, vvhe,
from motives of Christian philanthropy, applied their
efforts to rescue the children of the country from their
wretched state. This was not merely a Christian or moral
question, but one affecting the political and social inter-
ests of the country, and it was clearly the duty of the
Government, as far as possible, to lend its aid in apply-
ing a remedy to the evils so truly stated by his Noble
Friend. The ragged schools were already doing much
towards the good work, and more especially in the ex
ample they afforded of what might be accomplished by
gentle means and moral example. Tne Right Hon.
Gentleman adduced to the same purpose the good
effects which were achieved by the efforts of the mana-
gers and teachers at the Phitanthropic School, and
passed a high eulogiutn individually upon Mr. Turner,
whose exertions had been so successful in the reforma-
tion of youth. He mentioned that the Aberdeen Ragged
School, from the admirable manner in which it was
managed, bad already completely abolished mendicity
from the streets of that city. The cause had been most
effectually served, too, by several excellent pamphlets
published on the subject by the Noble Lord himself', by
Mr. Dickens, and other benevolent men. At the same
time, looking at the mass of crime which existed, it was
too evident that a long time must elapse before even the
most energetic efforts in this direction could produce any
very material diminution of that mass. To the principle
of the Noble Lord's proposal he had no objection; the
Government, indeed, were already acting upon it, by re-
moving offenders, at an age earlier than formerly, from
the danger of evil communications, to our foreign settle-
ments, and putting them in the way to earn their own
living honestly and profitably. He could assure the Noble
Lord that no exertions would be omitted by the Emigra-
tion Commissioners, and the Colonial-office, and by the
Government generally, to carry his views into operation
as rapidly and effectually as possible, and this with re-
gard to youthful offenders throughout the country, as
well as to those of the metropolis.—(liear, hear.) He
hoped that his Noble Friend, accepting his assurance of
the entire concurrence of the Government in his views,
and of their full intention to carry them out, would con-
sent to withdraw his motion. The Hon. Gentleman
added that already the efforts of the Government in fa-
cilitating the emigration of young females from Ireland
were producing the best results.—(Hear, hear.)
Col. CONOLLY fully corroborated the statement that
the emigration of young females from Ireland was effect-
ing a material benefit fur that country.
Mr. HORSMAN sail that the Noble Lard, by this
roost valuable motion, had added greatly to the deep
debt of gratitude which the country already owed him.
As simply a means of economy, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer ought to have seconded the motion.
Mr. F. SCOTT expressed the hope that the Go-
vernment would, as soon as p ssible, take enur•
getic measures to carry out the views so ably stated by
the Noble Lord. He had himself that day waited on
Lord John Russell, to urge upon him the extension of
emigration by means of Government advances
upoa local rates. The Government advanced money
to drain waste land; a not less valuable assistance would
be to advance money to drain off waste population.
The colonies of Australia abounded in food, which was
wasted there as men were wasted here. The extent of
land and the productiveness of the soil in those colonies
were unbounded. It was refreshing to have a subject
brought under discussion there which enlisted all sym-
pathies, and in which all party feelings were merged.
It had been said that for the Goverment to take up
emigration was to stifle private enterprise; but he d:d
not think this objection could be brought against the
plans proposed by his Noble Friend and himtielf.• He
teed not himself gone into the places of the ragged
schools, but he had attended soup-kitchens, and on put-
ting it to a show of hands he found that in numerous
cases three-fourths of those present were willing to emi-
grate. The number of emigrants who could be sent
by means of the colonial funds was not equel
to that which the colonies could receive, for in New
South Wales alone 20,000 annually could be ab-
sorbed in the labour-markets, whilst not more than
h e
tri colonials o
would
do-
mestic,
alone
.5,000 could be sent. Whit was mostst essential was, to
in! yfotr o
etx utkee n
due remigration,i,, n
ameliorate the state of society amongst those who etni-
gratt!d
nau urndognedetvhe eryG rngurvenffiteml, yr h
ent,
not ol n
theprrrnetsiennt, n
sccohevtinnec,ed as he ,
bu tto deviu
isess,rno te
ph
;h ta
ensble the colonies to supply themselves with an ade-
quate supply of labour.
Mr. SLANEY bad heard the speeches of the Noble
Lord and of Sir George Grey with great satisfaction.
He hoped the Noble Lord would not press his motion
after the encouragement he hal received from the Right
Hun. Baronet.—(Hear, hear.) lle would not go into the
minutiae of the question, but he would merely observe
that the great changes in the lower orders which had
occurred within the last half century demanded a similar
change of measures towards them on the part of the
Government. The population of the working classes re-
quired the care of the Government in providing them with
social institutions. These things had been too long
neglected in the struggles of party, and it was high time
to look to the domestic happiness of the reople at large.
Mr. V. SMITH said that the universal acquiescence
of all parties in the projects and views of the Noble
Lord was one of the most dangerous modes in which
such a motion could be received, for whilst every one
agreed in the pure philanthropy of his Noble Friend's
endeavours nobody ever thought of the practical mode
the plan
clashes
admirably i ra
whosel)ly adapted to
condition
of carrying them into effect. But his Noble Friend had
aprinaeclei(lo... beforeutethe h
condition House
s e o
f a
he had so well stated to the House, and instead of being
satisfied with a general promise on the part of the Go-
vernment, he (Mr. V. Smith) only wished that ho (Lord
t dhieou
tor a definite sum of money for the purpose of carrying
Ashley) had moved art address to the Crown, praying
into practice views he had explained. The Under-
Secretaryto be granted for the purposes of emigration ; and
some part of that might be given to his Noble Friend,
of the Colonies had stated that 10,000/. was
the
the great merit of whose scheme was that he bad nit
magnificent plans to carry out, but was willing to take
as much or as little as he could get towards effecting
his object. He thought, also, the parishes which were
to be relieved of their surplus youthful population ought
to contribute to the expense of removing them. The co-
-I,nieS would afford a contingent, and the Government
might very fairly be called upon to assist in supplying
the remainder. Charitable assistance also would not be
wanting, and thus the scheme
endeavours would be
would assume a practical
aspect, and the Noble Lord's
crowned with success. If the Noble Lord wished to
divide he would divide with him, for if he had confidence
in the Right Hon. Baronet, still that was no ground for
not strenuously pursuing to a successful issue the plans
he had proposed.
Sir T. D. ACLAND recommended the completest
unanaity on the present question, as any other course
would be prejudicial. He had the strongest confidence
in the Home Secretary's assurance, that the Govern-
ment would do its best to promote the plans of the Noble
Lord.
Mr. B. HAVES regretted that his Right Hon.
Friend had cast any doubt upon the sincerity of
the Home Secretary in respect to theviews of
the Government regarding the plans of the Noble
Lord. 'The question of emigration had repeatedly
engaged the attention of his Right lion. Friend the
Home Secretary and himself. The question was one of
money. It was proposed to ask for 10,0001 this year
partly to defray the cost of sending out the wives and
families of convicts to Australia—a small portion would
also be applied to the purposes of emigration from the
ragged schools. There was another source of funds
namely,
to contribute to such a purpose. funds
There wee
1.,
arising from the sale of colonial lands also partly app
the colonies, which might be justly called on
cable to emigration purposes.
He agreed with the
Noble Lord in his estimate of the importance of
If the
en-
couraging female emigration from eland.y
Noble Lord allowed the Government time to mature hie
plan, he (Mr. B. Hawes) thought it might be found
the prac-
ticable.me-
tropolis, but it ought to be extended to the whole It ought not, however, to be limited to
king-
door. Having thus assured the Noble Lord of the bone
fide intentions of the Government, ho trusted,.Rig
t • of his ht
notw.ith-
; i
etending the doubts cast upon the stricer
Hon. Friend the Home Secretary by the Right Hoe.
Gentleman the Member for Northampton,
that the Noble
Lord would be contented with these assurances, and not

press his motion,
Lord NIAIION said that the statement of the Under
Secretary for the Colonies with respect to the applica-
tion of the sum of 10,000 i. for the purposes of emigre,
tion of convicts' wives to Van Diemen 's Land, was at
variance with the answer given to him (Lord Mahon)
on a former occasion relative to the same grant of

. ......_ __
to
ncy.
passed upon
Mr. B. HAWES said that it was found to be prac
eulogies
ticable to apply the gum in cupoion to Australia gene-
rally, instead of confinirg it to Van Dietnon's Land.
Sir E. N. BUXTON said that while he joined in the
the labours of the Noble Lord
(Lord Ashley) in the cause of the poorer classes of
thecommunity, and the eloquence with which
the Noble Lord had opened the question that evening,
he (Sir E. N. Buxton) must call attention to the