The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-23 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

were strangers to the land, and many of whom were, by their
own industry, placed beyond the want of such assistance.
He found by the last report of the Society of the Friends of
Poland, that several of the parties who were participators
in the proceeds of this vote were actually engaged in
thriving trades; for instance, there was one refugee in re-
ceipt of a pension of 451. per annum who filled the office of
teacher to the French schools; another, with an unpro-
nounceable name, who carried on the business of a fencing
and dancing master at 101, Sloane-street ; and a third named
Albert, who kept one of the finest tobacconist's shops in
London. In fact, there appeared to be a list of about twenty
of them. who were all in receipt of pensions, and who were
all earning good livings in business. They must be just
before they were liberal, and while their own countrymen
were suffering so many privations, it was high time that
they had abolished this grant of 10,000/. a year, and he
should therefore take the liberty of dividing the Committee
upon the vote. But, independently of the vote itself, there
was an expensive staff kept up to superintend the dis-
tribution of the fund. The secretary received 275/. a year,
his clerk received 601., and these two sums, together with
the Polish officers, made up an additional expense of 7001.
a year; and as it was high time a stop was put to this spe-
cies of extravagance, he should certainly give the vote his
most decided opposition.
Lord DUDLEY STUART had heard the observations of
his Hun. Friend with deep regret, because he was convinced,
when the question came to be fully and minutely discussed,
the vote would not appear to be so objectionable as his Hon.
Friend hal represented it.—(Hear, hear.) He knew very
well t hat nothing now-a-days was more popular than for Hon.
Members to come forward and call for a reduction of the public
expenditure either large or small, but be thought he should
be able to satisfy the House that they would avert the ends
of charity it they refused this vote to parties who were
really in distress. He thought, if they stopped this grant
to the Polish refugees, it would be a meet uncharitable act,
and one which the British Parliament had never been guilty
ot before. His Hon. Friend had made statements which he
WAS sure he would never have ventured upon, had he been
correctly informed upon the facts.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon.
Friend seemed to think that he (Lord Dudley Stuart) had
a control over this vote, but he could assure his Hon. Friend
that he exercised no control over it whatever. There cer-
tainly was a time when he exercised a control over the
grant, but that was only on the first occasion the vote was
agreed to. After that, the Treasury took the vote into
their own hands. His Honourable Friend complained that
an expensive staff was kept up for distributing this
fund, but he oould assure his Honourable Friend that
when he had the management of the fund there was no
such expense connected with it whatever. His Honourable
Friend next complained that many of the parties who par-
ticipated in the benefits of this fund were engaged in carry-
ing on lucrative business. • That there were persons on the
pensiqn list who were engaged in business he could
not pretend to deny; but he need hardly appeal
to the commercial men of the House to bear him out in the
statement, that many parties who managed to sustain a good
appearance in business were receiving little or no profits
ist return. He was afraid that was the case in reference to
several of these pensioners who were engaged in professions or
business ; but if the Committee wished it he for one should have
no objection to revise the list of pensioners. Hedidnotdeny
that the original vote was only granted for one year, but he
must remind the Committee that when a question was asked
of the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he had
any objection to continue the grant, the answer,
that the Right Honourable Gentleman would have great
pleasure in doing so, 'was received by the House with cheers.
—(Hear, hear.) He admitted that the grant was in the first
instance merely temporary, but the House had unanimously
assented to its continuance. France had voted 100,0004
for the Poles, and' last year gave 50,000/. for their
relief. He was as great an advocate for economy as any
one in that House, and with a view to a reduction
of the public expenditure, had voted for Mr. Hume's motion
for the reduction of the army and navy; but surelyso small
a sum as would not give the poor man half a pint of beer
more, or the poor woman an additional tea-spoonful of tea.
—(Laughter) should not be withheld. Besides, if it
were abrogated, England, which had aided other countries,
and whose exiled people in the time of Charles the Second
had been aided by Poland with money, would become con-
temptible in the eyes of the other nations of the world.
Mr. HENLEY said the Noble Lord had made out as good
a case as he could in support of the grant. but he had failed
to show that, during all the years these Poles had been here
they had been unable to make, a subsistence, and, next, to
find thfir way back to their own cuuntry.—(Hear, hear.)
It wasmot right they should continue a burden on the people
of thi4 country, many of whom, owing to their distresses,
would /Joe glad of pensions. He did not think this grant should
continue for ever. Ho should vote against the grant, unless
the Government told the House that it would not be con-
tinued.—(Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said it was surprising that the Poles in four-
ieen years had not been able to_ provide for themselves. He
cnuld not but think that the Noble Lord was gratifying a
favourite notion at the expense of the people of this country,
and at,the sacrifice of bis duty to constituents. The case
was much worse than had been stated. Out of the whole time
the money had been paid but one Pole had been magnanimous
enough to resign. He deprecated John Bull being made
a mulch cow by the inhabitants of other countries.—(Great
laughter.) In 1834 the House acceded to the grant on the
distinct understanding that it would be but temporary.—
(Hear, hear.) He trusted this would be the last vote, or at
least the last but one, and that the Government would give
a pledge to that effect.—(Hear, hear.) It was the saving of
small sums that made a large general saving.
Mr. HUME said he was one of the Committee to whom
the allotment of aid out of the vote to the distressed
Poles was granted. The sums, he admitted, were
very small, but they were given merely as aid, and in order
to support them until they could support themselves. That
principle had been altogether contravened. If the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would give a pledge that this and other
grants would be reviewed and not pressed again if found that
they could be dispensed with, he should advise his Hon.
Friend not to press his amendment. The Pole and every
other foreigner could now return to his own country.
Mr. OSBORNE intimated that he could not consent to the
suggestion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER reviewed the
circumstances under which the money was granted. The
vote was one which could not be considered a permanent
charge upon the country.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think
the House would be disposed to take away this aid from old
persons who had been long in the receipt of it—that would
be an act of cruelty; but young persons able to earn their
own living could not be allowed to receive it. lle assured the
House that the list should be carefully reviewed.
Sir J. TYRELL did, not wish to act cruelly, but in his
t. pinion the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not made out a
strong case for its continuance. He thought they would do
well to allow 4,0001. this and discontinue it next year, unless
the Noble Lord the Member for Marylebone (whom he
much complimented) could show a very argent case for its
continuance to certain parties.
Lord It.GROSVEN OR accounted for the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Bright) calling John Bull a milch cow by his having
sat seventy- three days on an IriSh Committee. He thought
the plan of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was the best.
Mr. H. BERKELEY said when they had a heart to feel
for the woes of foreigners, he trusted that someshare of their
humanity would be given for the distressed people at home.
Constituents generally remarked that the House afforded
liberal aid to foreigners whilst they neglected the distressed
condition ot the people at home. He considered that neither
the army or navy could now be reduced with safety.
He should support the amendment.
Mr. URQUHAR l' said the grant was an annual protest
in favour of the nationality of Poland, and was based on the
highest grounds of justice. It was remarkable, that when
the state of Poland was being discussed that the House
treated it with levity. England was much to blame for the
fallen condition of Poland.
Mr. G. THOMPSON said, the reasons in favourof the vote
urged by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last were the most
extraordinary that could be urged in a British House of
Commons. Forsooth,because the Czar of Russia had tram-
pled upon the nationality of Poland, were they to support for
years all whom his tyranny had driven from their native
land ? lie bore testimony to the merits of the Poles, but con-
sidering the vote altogether indefensible, he should vote
against it, in the hope that it would be abolished for ever.
Mr. ROBINSON opposed the Bill.
Mr. OSBORNE said if the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would state that this should be the last vote, he would not
divide the House.
Mr. O'CONNOR was opposed to take the grant away
without notice to the recipients that it would be discontinued.
The CHANCELLOR of the 'EXCHEQUER explained
that what lie had said was that it would not be well to take
away the grant in a summary manner. He thought that
the old, the helpless, and those who were unable to go back
to their own country should alone receive the grant.
After some further discussion,
Mr. OSBORNE said the explanation of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was perfectly satisfactory; he should not
therefore divide. The vote was therefore agreed to.
On the vote for 6,669/. to defray the miscellaneous allow-
ances of the Civil List not otherwise provided for being pro-
posed,
Mr. C. LUSHINGTON opposed the Regium .Donum part
of this vote on the behalf of the Dissenters of the country, as
derogatory to them, and moved that the vote should be re-
duced by the sum of 1,693/. the amount of the Regium Donum

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On the cfnistioiffer- going into Committee of Supply,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he trusted, at this late
period of the is, asion, Hon. Member,. would not delay
their going into the Committee of Supply by bringing
lorwurd qaestions which did not relate to the Estimates.
Mr. MULE rr SCROPE said'he bad no objection to
withdraw hi4ruolti:Oelating to Ireland, but he should
be glad to know iEthe supplementary estimates fur the
relief or.thalrish distress would be prefaced by any
statement ft-dill tire Government?
Lori JOHN RUSSELL replied that his Right Hon.
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer would make a
general statement upon the subject.
Sir JOHN WALSH said he had a notice on the paper
for calling fur an explanation of the circumstances con-
nected with the recent appearance of the fleet under the
command of Admiral Sir William Parker in the Bay of
Naples;
:but, perhaps the Noble Lord could make a
statement upon that subject which should obviate the
necessity of his bringing forward that motion?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the King of Naples had
attempted to raise a forced loan contrary to existing
treaties with the country, but the King subsequently
abandoned that project. A question, however, had
arisen nth respect to the use of the British flag by the
Neap dian navy in seizing certain Sicilian vessels; but
upon that subject also a satisfactory explanation bad been

given. A further question had, however, since arisen, as to
whether these vessels were taken in the waters of Derfer,
and Admiral Sir William Parker had written a letter upon
the subject to the Commissioners of the lonian Islands, who
had not yet returned an answer.
Sir J. WALSH said the statement of the Noble Lord was
satisfactory as far as it went, but he wished to put a further
question to the Noble Lcrd, relative to the existing state of
tlaings. He wanted to understand whether, up to this time,
her Majesty's Government had maintained a strict neutrality
betweea the two contending parties; or whether Sir Wil-
liam Parker had committed any act, either towards the
King of Naples or the Sicilians, which could in any respect
make England a party to the contest?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said ha did not wish any state-
ment of his own to hamper the future discussion of the Go-
vernment in this matter, but he could assure the Honourable
Baronet that no steps had been taken by Admiral Sir
William Parker which could tend in the least to betray hos-
tilities towards either party.
Sir JOHN WALSH said the explanations of the Noble
Lord would render it unnecessary for him to bring forward
his motion.
Mr. HERRIES hoped the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government did not contend that the King of Naples had no
right to levy_ a forced loan upon his own subjects.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said certainly not; but the King
of Naples had no right to make a forced loan upon the
British subjects resident within his own dominions.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUMEmsaanidnfamfoenw days ago he presented a petition
from a clergy
talt,.rose, complaining that one of his
parishioners had been on suspicion of felony, but
whose trial could not take place upteor some time to come,'and was
treated by his gaolers as a convicted Non. Now he thought
if that practice was general i
tionable, and he hoped this_ iparticular catsc'st.awsolujilgdbliiyas°-ebitthee-
attention of the Right flon.Gentleinan the Secretary of State
for the Home Department.
Sir G. GREY said there was a distinction made between
prisoners waiting for trial and prisoners under the sentence of
the Court. He was not aware of this case until the Hon.
Gentleman had directed his attention to it.
The House then went into Cammittee of
SUPPLY.

part of the vote.
After some discussion, in which Colonel Thompson, Lord
John Russell. Mr. Fox, r. Kershaw, Mr. George Thompson,
Mr. Bright, Mr. flume' Mr. Muntz, Mr. Wyld, and Mr.
Sharman Crawford took part,
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took
place.
Mr. REYNOLDS, during the time of our exclusion from
the gallery having rose, moved the exclusion from the esti-

-
mat; of the sum set apart for the French Protestant refugees
(1,500/.).
After a short discussion, the Ilox. MEMBER for Dublin
withdrew his amendment, and the Committee divided upon
Mr. C. Lushington's amendment, with respect to the Repium
Donum, when there appeared,
For the vote ..
For the amendment
Majority for the vote
The vote was then agreed to.
The House then resumed,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave
to sit again at a quarter to six o'clock.
I,IILLBANK PRISON BILL.

60

This Bill was read a third time and passed.
COMMONS INCLOSURE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
The third reading of this Bill was postponed till after the
other orders of the day were disposed of.
DUBLIN POLICE BILL.
The third reading of this Bill was also postponed until
after the other orders of the day were disposed of.
NUISANCES AND CONTAGIOUS DISEASES BILL.
The report on this Bill was postponed until after the other
orders of the day were disposed of.
FEVER (IRELAND) BILL.
The Committee on this Bill was postponed until after the
other orders of the day were disposed of:
BANKRUPTS RELEASE BILL.
This Bill went through Committee, and was ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow, at twelve o'clock.
OFFICERS OF COURTS O1!' JUSTICE (IRELAND)
ASSIMILATION OF APPOINTMENTS BILL.
On the motion of Lord JOHN' RUSSELL, the order of the
day for the second reading of this Bill was discharged, the
Noble Lord stating that it would be impossible to proceed
with the measure in the course of the present session.
The house, then, at a Quarter before Four o'clock, ad,
journed to a Quarter before Six o'Clock.

to defray the charges
67,000/. was voted to her Majesty
and allowances to superannuated public officers.
440 the expenseso/. was voted to her Majesty to defray of
the Corsican emigrants.
2,000/. was voted to defray the expenses of the ,National
Vaccine Establishment.
6,0001. was voted to defray the expenses of the Reffige fur
the Destitute.
On the question that 8,7001. to defray the expenses of the
allowance to the Polish refugees,
Mr. OSBORNE said it was high time this vote was put a
stop to. At first the grant was only conceded for one year,
but although there were thousands of their own fellow-coun-
trymen absolutely starving, it was still proposed to put the
country to an' expense of 10,0001., to support parties who

The House resumed at a Quarter to Six o'clock.
PETITIONS.

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWiolll;.i;resented a petition from
an Inclep9ndent Congregation in Belfast against the Regium
Donlon grant.
Air. DISRAELI presented a petition from the adventurers
and miners of Huristone against the reduction of the duty
on copper ore.

NOTICE OF MOTION.
!llr. TYNTE gave notice that early next session he should
House.
bring the grand jury system under the consideration of the

TURNS. Mr. BROTHERTON R
moved for, and obtained the follow-
ing returns :—Return of the number of days on whibh the
House of Commons sat in the session 1847-8, stating for each

day the hour of meeting, and the hour of adjourn-
ment, and the total number of hours occupied in
the sittings of the House, and the average time;
and also showing the number of hours on which
the House sat each day, and the number of hours
after midnight; and the number of entries in each day's
votes and proceedings • also the total number of
hours the House sat during the session (in continua-
tion of Parliamentary Paper, No. 746, of Session 1847).
Return of the number of divisions in the session 1847-8;
stating the subject of the division, and the number of Mem-
bers in the majority and _minority, tellers included ;
also, the aggregate number in the House on each
division; distinguishing, also, the divisions on public Bills
from private; and, also, the number of divisions before and
after midnight (in continuation of Parliamentary paper No.
746, of session 1847).—Return of an alphabetical list of the
public Bills which have been introduced into the House
of Commons during the session 1847.8. stating by
whom introduced, or which have been brought from the.
House of Lords, the date of their several stages in the
House, and distinguishing those which have since be •
come law (in continuation of Parliamentary paper,
No. 756, of session 1847.) Return of the total
number of Acts passed in each session since
the year 1800; distinguishing the number of public, private,
and local personal Acts; and the number relating to Great
Britain, England, Scotland, and Ireland, and those to
the United Kingdom. Return of the number of
days on which the House of Commons has sat in each session
since the year 1800, stating for each day the hour of meeting
and the hour of adjournment, and the total number of
hours occupied in the sittings of the House, and the average
time; and also showing the number of hours on which the
House sat each day, and the number of hours after midnight ;
and the number of entries in each day's votes and proceed-
ings; also the total number of hours the House sat during
each session.

Mr. ROBINSON gave notice that, on Friday, he would
put a question to the Right Hon. Secretary of State for the
Home Department• relative to the convict Mitchel.

THE MINT.

in reply to a questionfWmSlrK.TYßELL, •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that
he had every reason to believe that the labours of the Mint
Commission would be brought to a close within a month,
when their report would be ready for delivery.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

In reply to a question from Mr. FORBES,
Lord J. RUSSELL stated that he proposed to take the
Diplomatic Relations with Rome Bill to-morrow, at twelve,
and the Sale of Spirits Bill at five o'clock.
In reply to a question from Lord G. BENTINCK,
Mr. HAWES said he had no objection to lay on the table
of the House a copy of the Resolutions of the Jamaica
Chamber of Commerce.
COLONIAL LIGHT-HOUSES.
_

On the question for going into Committee of Supply,
Mr. HU NIE drew the attention of the House to the dangers
the shipping interest of this country ran from the defective
state of our Colonial lighthouses.
(LEFT SITTING.)

PRP. SUN, LONDON', WEDNESDA Y EVENING A, tlat/Sll /A, -him.

dron, because the greater the number the slower the
speed of the vessel, and therefore the greater their
danger. The political economists said have the slave-
traders to themselves, they will not destroy their own
slaves; but slaves were not cattle—they would not sub-
mit to the treatment of slaves, and therefore the slave-
trader would destroy his own slaves. The Noble and
Learned Lord then animadverted severely on the
manner in which the Committee bad attended
to the evidence of one witness, who admitted
that he had been a slave- trader, who stated that he de-
spaired of the efforts of the squadron .putting down the
slave trade. lie should have said that he feared that
those efforts would be successful.—(Hear, hear.) He
was the more earnest on this subject, because he was de-
sirous of stemming the under-current of public opinion,
which was now setting in on this subject, and which
would bring us back to the same state of apathy with re-
gard to the slave trade which prevailed in 1788. Some
judgment ought to be exercised in the selection of offi-
cers to be employed in the suppression of that trade. It
was a very unpopular service, and those officers only
ought to be employed in it who were enthusiastic in the
cause. The failure of our past efforts for the extinction of
this traffic had given rise to an idea now sedulously spread
by certain parties, namely, that it war impossible. But he
could not believe that it was beyond the power of France
and England, united, to-stop the atrocious traffic pursued
by Brazilian joint-stock companies. All that was required
for this purpose was that their laws should be more strin-
gent and more rigorously enforced. If they (lid not inter-
fere; they would give occasion for the surmise that they
thought this Brazilian trade should not be interfered with,
and that it might be embarked in, by other parties, with im-
punity. He had intended to have said more to their Lord-
ships on this irn'portant question, but the atrocities of the
traffic were of such a nature that he felt deeply pained in
bringing them before the House.—(Hear.) It was a system
of the most foul demoralising character; it was fraught with
crime and evil of the worst description; and it was time
that the evils it created should be repressed by the adoption
and enforcement of more stringent measures. The Africans
looked to England as the quarter from whence effectual aid
for this purpose was to proceed, and he trusted that the
people of England and the Government of England would
not forego, but rather redouble their efforts for the suppression
of this traffic, which, great as they had been, were but a
slight atonement for having, as a nation, long persevered in
carrying on the slave trade. The Noble Lord concluded with
moving, "That an humble address be presented to her Ma-
jesty, praying that she will be graciously pleased to give
directions for the enforcement of all treaties with Foreign
Powers for the extinction of the slave-trade on the coast of
Africa. and for the prosecution of all British subjects directly
or indirectly concerned in violating the laws against that
crime ; and that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to
take into her serious consideration the expediency of concert-
ing measures with her allies for declaring slave trading
piracy, with punishment less severe than that now incurred
according to law of nations for that crime. 7
The Marquis of LANsDOWNE was sure the House would
feel grateful to his Noble and Learned Friend for the able
manner in which he had treated the subject. He felt it,
however, his duty to move the previous question, because,
looking at the terms of the motion, and the circumstances to
which his Noble and Learned Friend had adverted, that this
important subject had only recently been before a Committee
of the other House, it might be inferred from the terms of
this motion that there had been a remissness on the part of
the Queen's Government in carrying out the existing treaties
on the subject of the slave trade, and also because the motion
seemed to prejudge the Committee of the House of Commons.
He thought it expedient, before their Lordships pronounced
an opinion on the subject so hastily, that they should ex-
amine the evidence, and, decide on the policy they would
adopt, not abating one jot of their determination to bring the
infamous slave trade to ultimate extirpation.--(Cheers.) If
one man more than another had shown himself to be a
constant and firm supporter of existing treaties for the sup-
pression of the slave trade it was his Noble Friend the Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs, and he thought it must be admitted
that he had left no means untried to give effect to such
treaties, with a view to put an end to this wicked traffic.—
(Hear, bear.) With regard to the participation of indivi-
dual Englishmen who were culpable and criminal enough
to be engaged in a traffic which the laws of their country
had stamped with ignominy, there was no doubt that such
had been the case, and his Noble Friend the Secretary for
Foreign Affairs had not omitted to notice the subject, which
had been referred to the law officers of the Crown, who
were of opinion that Englishmen in foreign countries who
might be engaged directly or indirectly in the slave trade,
or who might take slaves in execution for debt, were guilty
of an offence against the law, and were amenable to punish-
ment. His Noble Friend had instructed British Consuls to
proclaim the law of the country on the subject of the slave
trade, and its consequences. He thought that to make the
slave trade piracy, with a modification of the punishment
attached to that crime, would be perhaps the best means of
putting an end to it. He was not prepared to pronounce an
opinion on the subject twenty-four hours only after the pub-
lication of the evidence before the Committee of the other
House on the subject; but he trusted it might be productive
of the object which he believed they all desired, namely, the
extinction of the slave-trade; and he hoped the time would
never come when any countenance would be given, directly
or indirectly, to the statement that it was the intention of the
present Government to abandon their determination to put
down a traffic which had been the curse of the world, and at
one time a stigma on our national character.— (Loud cheers.)
For the reasons, however, which he bad before stated, he felt
himself bound to move the previous question.
Lord BROUGHAM said the statement of the Noble and
Learned Lord was most invaluable as a statement of the argu-
ment ; his demonstration had been complete, convincing, and
triumphant of the unfounded nature of the two propositions
which be had assailed, namely, that the slave trade bad in-
creased in spite of our efforts, and that the British Legislature
was in reality an accessary before the fact to the horrors of
the slave trade. Had any one entertained doubts as to the
policy of continuing these efforts, those doubts must have
been removed by the argument of the Noble and Learned
Lord. No one could read the evidence before their Lordships
-without perceiving that the witnesses had been marshalled
and examined with a view to support a foregone conclusion
—the conclusion which was enunciated in the Committee's
report. Ever since 1811, the slave trade had been felony;
and he could not but regret, as an instance of the evil arising
from the misapplication of words, that the slave trade had
not been called all along by its ritiht name, that of " felony "
and "man-stealing." The "Noble and Learned Lard
then commented at some length on the evidence
of Mr. Cliff, who he said had, in effect, declared, " I am a
felon and a murderer, and ought to have been hanged by
the laws of my own country long ago." Such a man had
been the daring and cherished wi:ness of a Committee of one
House of Parliament, who, instead of sending him for his trial,
professed tenderness for his reputation, and allowed his evi-
dence to outweigh that of a captain in her Majesty's navy.
The Noble and Learned Lord then read copious extracts from
the evidence of this witness, and expressed surprise that none
of the Committee had ever asked him how long it was since
he began to entertain the sentiments which he professed of
aversion to the slave trade on account of the loss of human
life which it involved. The Committee ought to have in-
quired by whom the witness was introduced, •whether he
had associated with gentlemen in this country, or
with any member of the Committee. One of them, he
understood, Mr. Jackson, was engaged in what was
called the " coast trade" of Africa, which consisted in ship-
ping ,goods well known as " coast goods " to Africa, for
sale to tile purchasers of slaves. This trade might be con•
ducted in three ways, one of which was little better than
direct participation in the slave trade, inasmuch as the
return for the goods was made dependent on the success of
the slave-trader's venture. He believed that this species of
the trade was little encouraged in this country ; but for
the credit of the merchants of London, Liverpool, and
Manchester, he hoped that a searching inquiry would be
instituted into this trade, with the view of as-
certaining whether it did or did not amount to an en.
couragement of the slave trade. In reply to the
argument that the African squadron increased the horrors
of the slave trade, his Lordship observed it might as well
be contended that highway robbery ought not to be punished
lest the robbers should be driven to commit murder in order
to escape. He ridiculed the doctrine of the Society of
Friends, who were opposed to the infliction of violence in
any shape, and said it amounted to this—" Pass as many
laws as you choose against the slave trade, make it felony,
and attach to it what punishment you like, but take very
good care not to inflict any punishmeut, nor even to try to
catch the culprits." Could the whole world be converted
into a Society of Friends such principles would be applic-
able, but not otherwise. In conclusion, the Noble Lord
expressed a hope thet the declaration just made by the
Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) would go forth as a counter-
poise to the report of that Committee to which allusion had
been made.
After a few words from the Earl of WALDEGRAVE,
Lord DENMAN expressed a hope that the fullest attesta-
tion of Parliamentary approval would be given to the con-
duct pursued by the Government; and referred to what h
taken place in former sessions.
he motion was then put and negatived without a de.
vision.

which all Germany might be proud was a purpose that
gave an opportunity of united effort when all was
division. Religious zeal had much influence doubtless;
but the cathedral literature of the past ten years
(for it has a press of its own) proves plainly that
German nationality was the most active power. The
piety, faith, and earnestness of the old founders of
churches and temples cannot be so plainly traced in
all that has been said and written by the advocates of
the movement as that political " unity" of the empire
which the completed cathedral was to embody awl ex-
press. To carry out the work practically, the people
formed committees, unions, and societies all over Ger-
many, with banners, bsdges, and insignia, and threw
into the task much of that spirit which with us creates
such bodies as the Odd Fellows, Ancient Druids, and
Foresters. They had cathedral bands of music,
cathedral singing societies, and unions of the trades
employed, all at a time when every kind of association
was an object of suspicion to the Government. It would
be unjust to assert that the bodies thus organized were
turned to a political purpose ; but they fostered and
kept alive An idea that could find no other mode of ex-
pression so open ; there was a worldly object combined
with the religious one.
The great impulse was given to the movement by the
present King of Prussia, who on Easter-day, 1842. laid
the first stone of the new works, and " endovven" the
undertaking with 50,000 dialers a year. Since that
time the works have been carried on as rapidly as the
limited funds permitted; and it is understood that they
have now almost failed. Without some general contri-
bution from the people of Germany, prompted by na-
tional enthusiasm, as their forefathers were animatad by
religious zeal, the cathedral will never be completed;
the exchequers of the Sovereigns at the present period
have nothing to spare.

The portion of-the. edifice added since 1842 is soon
described. The choir and the tower have been united
on the south, by carrying up the stone work to the
point where the light shafts are to spring from the
plain square buttresses ; the three portals on this
side are nearly completed ; and the nave is so far
finished, that with a temporary roof it can be used
for Divine worship: - It is in this south side that
the stained-glass windows, presented by the King
of Bavaria, are placed. On the north side nearly the
same amount of plain work has been finished; but on
both 'all the most expensive labour has yet to be
bestowed, in the elaborate carvings and tracery of the
pinnacles and shafts, in which .the modern workmen
are to imitate and reproduce the triumphs of
their ancestors. The old stone-work, dark and
worn to roughness by time, contrasts strongly with
the smooth white masonry of yesterday; in form, of
course, the ancient 'plan has been rigidly ad-
hered to; time will harmonise the colour, but
at present the effect is harsh. The carved work
on the front of the south tower is so decayed that
large patches of grass are actually growing in the
roses and fretted ornaments above the portal; the
tracery looks as if it would turn to dust with a touch:
when ;the eye
.passes from .it the fresh solid masonry,
the text that condemns the new piece on the old gar-
ment''.occurs involuntarily to the mind.
The portion of the fete celebrated to-day was not so
brilliaht as anticipated. A grand concert was given
at the Casino in the morning by the Gesengvet tin,
and till late in the afternoon, when a procession was
formed and started from the Neumarkte to the
cathedral, there was nothing to occupy the
citizens who have made up their minds to a three
days' holiday. The streets on the line of route
were splendidly decorated ; enormous banners
waved from every window, from which also de-
pended at intervals tapestry of brilliant colours;
some decorations made of flowers and evergeens, in
the form of Gothic windows, were actually works of
art. It was four o'clock before the procession reached
the cathedral ; it was composed of the Burgher
Guard, the chorus of the boys' schools, the orphan
children, the masons and carpenters of the works,
with their flags, all the building committees, with
their badges, the Archbish,p, several Bishops, and
the clergy. They wore their full canonicals, and
with their attendants formed the only brilliant part
of the spectacle. As soon as those who were ad-
mitted within the .cathedral were placed, the choir
chanted Ltetatul sum (the 121st Psalm), on the con-
clusion of which the master of the works, with a
short address, went through the form of delivering the
new portion of the edifice to the Archbishop. It will be
consecrated to-morrow. The 83d Psalm (Quam delecta
tabernacula tua) was then chanted, and the Archbishop
dismisaed the congregation with his blessing.
The King of • Prussia arrived by the railway at the
Deutz station, between seven and eight in the evening.
He was received by the Burgher Guard with hearty
cheering ; he crossed the Rhine in a small steamer, and
proceeded immediately to the apartments prepared for
him. He is to be serenaded during the night, and a
torchlight procession is to be formed in his honour.
The most characteristic event of the day was an acci-
dental one. Shortly before the arrival of the King a
band of peasants going on the annual pilgrimage to the
chapel at Cafen entered the city by the bridge of
boats. It was composed of very old rapt' and
women. in their provincial costume, dusty and
footsore with their • day's march. They walked in
two long lines, the women first, with folded, hands,
chanting the Ave Maria; a priest in full robes followed,
breviary in hand and the crucifix borne behind
him. Then came the men, aged, bald, and wrin-
kled, stooping under the weight of years and nil;
many of them were the very types of the peasant
in the etchings of Holbein's " Dance of Death ;"
most of them repeated aloud a prayer as they walked
along. Several covered carts closed the procession,
carrying the baggage and a few children, halt-
delighte, half-scared by the great floating banners,
and the noise and rush of the great city. They »ill
rest for the night outside the walls, and regime
their march to-morrow, having still three days' jour.
ney before them. It was a fragment of the life of the
middle ages brought suddenly on the scene ; and it was
almost the only event of the day that left au impression
of earnestness or depth of feeling.

- -
THE WEATHER.—A G ALE.—Since our last we
have had great variety of weather. On Saturday morning,
it was showery, with a high wind early ; tut the day turned
out fine. Sunday was a beautiful day, clouded over towards
evening. On Monday, much rain fell, and the wind rising,
blew at length a strong gale from the S.W., which made
some work for the farmers, by scattering the shocks and
thraves of both oats and wheat. These were blown down and
scattered about ; the oats, being lighter, were more generally
thrown about than the wheat. In the neighbourhood of this
city various trees were either torn up by the roots, or huge
limbs broken off them ; and the smaller trees suffered in pro-
portion. We saw a pear tree, heavily laden with fruit, of
which the stem near the top was broken in two by the force of
the gale, aided by the weight of the fruit. The maxi-
mum temperature of Monday vras only 58 degrees Fah-
renheit. Yesterday morning the Mersey and the Irwell
were in heavy flood. The morning was fine, with slight
sprinkling showers, .till about ten o'clock, when a heavy
thunder shower came on, and the rain fell in torrents. With
occasional gleams of sunshine, the remainder of the day was
wet. The telegraphic returns at seven yesterday morning,
show the variableness by the variety of the weather at dif-
ferent places. In the north "much rain ;" at Gosport the
same; while at Southampton it was "very fine:"—Edin-
burgh,; Newcastle, N.W., much rain;
very fine; Nnrmanton,
W.
W.N.W., very unsettled; Lincoln, E. N., very tine;
y rbko,
y NS W..p w.S ie, 73‘,:e, fine;r3 , much
;ilhe ; raH inuil, Rotherham,
s I
sv..E,
veryy
fine; Liverpool,
Norwich, westward, cloudy; Brandon, W. fine; Yarmouth,
V. fine; Lowestoft, vresmard, cloudy; Nottingham, W.
fine; Derby, S.W., favourable; Leicester, W., fine; Bir-
mingham, S.W., slight rain; Rugby, 8.E., moderately fine;
London, S.W., cloudy; Chelmsford, S. W., cloudy; Colches-
ter, S E., fine ; Gosport, S.W., much rain ; Southampton,
S. E., fine; Gloucester, S.W., favourable.—Manchester
Guardian of Wednesday.

COMMITTAL OF A CHARTIST FOR SEDITION,—OH
Friday George Webber, a notorious sedition-monger, from
Halifax, was committed by the Bradford magistrates to York
Castle, under a bench warrant, to take his trial at the next
assizes for uttering seditious language at a Chartist meeting
held on Toftshaw Moor, near Bradford, on the 12th of June
last. The prisoner had for a considerable time been in con-
cealment, and he was one of the fourteen persons who were
apprehended early on Weduesday morning last while in
secret conclave at a so-called Temperance coffee-house in
Manchester.

It is fully anticipated that the works of the High
Level Bridge will be so far completed by the end of
the present month that rail. ay trains will be
enabled to cross and re-cross the Tyne with the
most perfect regularity and safety. The arches
aver the Manors, leading from the junction of the
North Shields Haile/ex to Pilgrim-street, have, during
the present week, been tested by several engines
and carriages having pastied along that portion of the line
The whole of the works are of that strong and substan-
tial character which is calculated to ensure the safety of
the public, and to reflect the highest credit on the con-
tractors, and it may be stated that the bridge and via-
ducts will be completed in all their parts in about twelve
months from this time.—. Newcastle Journal.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, August 22.
SLAVE TRADE.

PARLIAMENTARY ELECTORS BILL.
Lord BEAUMONT moved the third reading of the Par-
liamentary Electors Bill.•
Lord REDESDALE said his
.objections to this Bill had
not been removed by the alterations which bad been made
in Committee. The measure bad been carried only by a
majerity of four in the other House—it involved a material
alteration of the Reform Act, which, it was admitted,
ought not to be lightly touched—it had come up at too late
a period of the session to be fully discussed, and, on these
grounds, he moved as an amendment that the Bill be read a
third time this day six months.
Their Lordships divided, when there appeared :
For the third reading 3l
Against it 2B
Majority for the third reading _3
On the motion of Lord BEAUMONT, the substitution of
the sth of January for the 11th of October, in reference to
the Bill coming into operation was agreed to, and the Bill
was passed.
CRIMINAL LAW ADMINISTRATION BILL.
On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, the Commons'
amendments on the Criminal Law Administration
Bill were, after a few words from Lord DENmAN and
the Earl of DEVON, agreed to.
Their Lordships adjourned, at Twenty-five Minutes before
Nine o'Clock, till Thursday.

Lord DENMAN then rose to move that an address
be presented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty
would be graciously pleased to enforce the observance of all
treaties for the suppression of the slave trade, and to order
the prosecution of all British subjects engaged in the slave
trade, lie considered this trade as a great crime, and
he regretted to perceive that an opinion was gradually
growing up that it was impossible to put it down, and a
Committee of the House of Commons, appointed to in-
quire into the subject, had reported that the squadron on
the African coast bad not only failed, but _ had
done more harm than good, and that it would be
better that it should be removed. This was calculated
to excite an apathy in the public mind on this subject,
and to induce a toleration of this most horrible trade.
lie was prepared to contend that although the squadron
had not succeeded in entirely destroying the trade, yet
it had greatly discouraged it. At Gallinas and other
places on the coast of Africa, it had been entirely
suppressed, and the importation of slaves had been
reduced in Cuba to less than one thousand per
annum in the year 1845. An unfortunate cir-
cumstance, which had occurred in this country,
had tended to increase the slave trade. A report had
been circulated in Africa that a revolution had occurred
in England, that Lord Palmerston had been sacrificed,
and that the slave trade was to be revived. The cap-
tains employed in the suppression of the slave trade bad
been subjected to actions at law for their exertions in
putting down the slave trade. had the blow which
those officers struck been followed up, he believed the trade
would have been abolished. Many had quitted it because
it had become a losing concern, and he stated that on the
authority of the evidence of a person examined before
the Committee, who admitted that he bad been engaged
in the trade. It had been said that the effect of the
blockading squadron had aggravated the horrors of the
trade. He did not believe it; be considered it was one
of those fallacies which was taken for granted for want
of proper reflection. The overloading of the vessels was
nut in consequence of the effects of the blockading squa-

•
HOUSE OF COMMONS, August 22.
:THREATENED FAMINE IN IRELA.D.
Sir DENHAM NORREYS gave notice that on the House
going into a Committee of Ways and Means, he would call
the attention of the House to the present threatened failure
of the potato crop in Ireland, with a view of ascertaining in
time whether the responsibility of that failure was to be
thrown on the Government or the Irish landlords.
MEMBERS' QUALIFICATION.
. , Mr. B. OSBORNE gave notice that he would early in the
next session bring forward a Bill for the repeal of the law
relating to the qualification of Members of that House.
SUGAR TRADE.
Lord G. BENTINCK, in moving for returns, showing, in
contiguous columns, the importations of British possessions
and of foreign sugars, as given respectively in the monthly
returns of the Board of Trade, and of those of the Customs,
for the months of September, October, November, and De-
cember of last year; and showing the importations of these
various descriptions of sugar, as made up by the Customs in
each of the above months, distinguishing the amount of
sugar imported into the five ports of London, Liverpool,
Bristol, Hull, and Clyde, from the amounts imported in the
same periods from the remaining ports of the United King-
dom, said that there was a discrepancy between the Customs
returns and those of the Board of Trade, as regarded the
quantity of sugar imported into this country in the months
mentioned. This discrepancy amounted to 9,678 tons upon
a gross return of 23,727 tons.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the Noble Lord had found
what was commonly called a " mare's nest." The whole
thing was this, the returns in the Customs were given from
in
bills of lading, &c., and thus there was nothing official
the returns from the Board of Customs, while the returns
from the Board of Trade were official, being taken from cor-
rect data. He must therefore object to the first part of the
return ; but if the Noble Lord desired it, he should give him
the latter part.

teen declared it to be their opinion that the Act of 1544 re°
quired amendment, and there were only four distinctly in
favour of the Act. But, looking to the character of those
witm'sses, it would be found that of all those who were de-
puted to express tie opinions of conunercial bodies and
banking establishments, only four, three of them being
bank directors, were against an alteration of the Act
of 1844; that three eminent persons connected with the
money-market were against the Act; that with re-
spect to six persons who represented important estab-
lishments in the provinces, even excluding two, as lie had
stared, they were all of opinion that the Bill required amend-
ment in the sense of relaxation of the restrictions; that one
eminent writer was distinctly opposed to the Act; and yet,
with such a preponderance of numbers against the Act as 16
to 4 among the witnesses, the Committee said it was "after
a careful review of the evidence" that they had come to the
conclusion that it was not expedient to make any alteration
in the Act. It was by three of numbers that they came to
that, conclusion. The evidence received by the Lords' Com-
mittee was nearly to the same effect, and, with few excre-
tions, the same witnesses were examined ; but the Lords,,
Committee seemed to have bestowed rather more patience
and care than the Commons' Committee had exhibited.
There were three elements to be taken into consideration as
pointing to the conclusion that some alteration of tire Act of
1844 was necessary. The first was the letter of the Treasury
written in October last, which would Hot have been written
had not such an einer,,,ency occurred as the Act of 1844 could
not meet of itself; the second was the report of the House
of Lords' Committee, expressly declaring that the Act re-
quired amendment ; and the third was the evidence of the
twenty witnesses exatnitied on the subject before the House
of Commons' Committee, sixteen of whom declared them-
selves universe to the general principle of the Act of 1844.
The reference made to the Committee consisted of two parts;
the first relating to commercial distress, and the second to
the effect which the Acts then in force for regulating the
issue of bank-notes might hare had on that distress. The
latter of these was the main subject of reference, for without
that he believed the inquiry would not have been instituted.
The question, so far as the report of a Committee could
decide it, had been decided, as he had already shown, in
two opposite ways; and his object in then addressing the
House was to call upon them to declare that, after all the
events that had led to the inquiry, after the nature of the
inquiry itself, after the result of that inquiry in another
place, this subject should not be allowed to sleep—(Hear,
hear)—that it should not be cushioned—that it should not
remain merely as au expression of an opinion of a Com-
mittee upon the table of the House; but that the House
would come to some solemn deliberation upon the subject, so
as to satisfy the country, who were looking to them with
great anxiety on it, either that the belief which so generally
prevailed that the Act of 1841 required some great change,
so as to enable them to meet another great crisis, if :such
should unfortunately arise was erroneous, or that they were
prepared to make such a change in the Act as to give the
country confidence in the existing monetary system.—(Hear,
hear.) When be proposed in the early part of the session
that, pending the inquiry, the House should suspend the
restrictive clauses of the Act of 1844, he was met by two ob-
jections,— first, that there was a Committee of Inquiry into
the subject, and that therefore he ought to wait for its re-
port, and, secondly, that Parliament was then sitting, and
would be able to give relief by relaxing the operation of
the Act in case of any emergency, But what was he
told now? To rely on her _Majesty's Ministers, who were
ready to do again what they did in October last, if
there should be any necessity for it. His reply to that was
that it afforded him no satisfaction. They did not interfere
in October last till infinite mischief was done; they had no
right to interfere till great mischief was done; and this was
not a state of things that mercantile men would be satisfied
with..—(Hear, hear.) Was he asking too much, then, when
he said that the House ought not to separate before acknow-
ledging the importance of coming to an early decision on the
subject? At this late period, when many Members had left
town, wearied of a session which, " like a wounded snake,
dragged its slow length along," and which people were
beginning to fear would be interminable—at this late period
he could not venture to bring forward a specific motion on
the subject, but he did not think be was asking too
much in calling upon the House to say that early
next session they would take this great subject
into their serious consideration. He could not ima-
gine upon what ground this could be objected to. Were
they to be told that there was to be no change in the Act of
1844? It so, the country would know at once what to
look to. The House might rest assured, however, that what-
ever might be the majority on the present occasion—what
ever means might be taken to stifle further discussion on the
subject—there was a majority elsewhere that would not allow
the question to rest—(Hear, hear)—and that even in that House there were Members who would consider they were
neglecting their duty to this great commercial country, if
they did not stand forward to provoke a discussion on it as
early as possible next session. The Right Hon, Gentleman
concluded by proposing his motion.
Mr. DRUMMO NI) said that the Right non. Gentleman
who had just sat down had thought it right to serve up to
them on that, the 22d day of August, a rechauffe of a bullion
debate, a farce which, under the best of circumstances, he (Mr.
Drummond) considered to be exceedingly uninviting, and es-
pecially so at this late period of the session.--(Hear, hear.)
One reason which the Right Hon. Gentleman assigned for
pressing for an early reconsideration of the question was, that
they might come to some final settlement. Now, considering
that this was a question which had been in dispute for the
last 150 years, he, for one, entirely despaired of ever
seeing a final settlement of it.—(Hear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman, in his analysis of the evidence, had dwelt
greatly upon the fact that a majority of bankers and com-
mercial men had objected to the Act of 1844. This would
have formed an equally valid objection to the bullion report
of 1810, but he considered that the value of the evidence of
bankers and commercial men on this subject was exceed-
ingly questionable, and was the last that ought to be re•
ceived as an authority on ft.—Meer, hear.) He thought it
would be unwise in the House to pledge itself to what they
should do on a future occasion. Sufficient for the session
were the debates thereof—(Laughter)—and, for his part, he
should certainly not promise that next year he would go into
this subject again.
Mr. NEWDEGATE hoped the House would not be kg
away from the proposition of his Right Honourable Friend
the • Member for Stamford by the flimsy pretences of the
Hon. Member for West Surrey. Hon. Members might
attempt to laugh this question down, but it was not in
their power to do so. He begged the Mouse to consider the
present position of the country. It appeared that an alarm-
ing deficiency had lately taken place in the amount and
value of our exports, and he feared that if, unfortunately, this
should prove a bad season for the corn and potato crops
we should not only have to encounter pressure like that of
last winter, but our difficulties would be greatly enhanced.
He asked the House, then, whether they would inflict upon
the country, debilitated as it was, a recurrence of the dis-
asters of last year, without holding out the hope which the
proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Stamford conveyed, that they would he ready to consider
this great question early next session?—(Hear, hear.) He
found that, from the sth of July, 1844, to the .Sth of July,
1845, the real value of the exports of British andhelorish
manufactures and productions was 59,076,9871,
Jul}, tB4
gastoe
theci al
5 valuetil
olf 32j, :6132. :1119814. thatthe frreoaml
vtahl
value
oalrlt.searw:
7iololfeut J,r
otethhe-cp a l
of the real value being 58,884,40 t
front
the
of
58,691,822 L, and the official value
v .1394,e2une1d530t,h-fit
sth u 1846,
133,087,945/. He found also, 1
July,
July, 1 8
14
87
4, the t
7, tr
oel 1
th valuee
s_ of our
ou_
f_r
July,exportslBl:3lB:
the official value 128,974,3574 ; that from
tst.
ioBl tlh6e2e
5154F3100.
,ff
and
was 53,735,0641., and the official value
the average of the real value being
55,938,7641, and the official value 130,026,408/ There
p-
t113102,0r7ea81,4y0a911.7
eared, consequently, a falling off hi our exports in
talipesec- second period below the first of 2,945,6401 real value,
and also a diminution of the quantity, or of the official value,
of only 3,011,037/, instead ot 4,807,3644, which would have
been the diminution in the quantity had the price, as indi-
cated by the real value, remained the same as in the first
period. As it was, this showed a depreciation of seven per
cent., but if we compared the exports of the two years of the
last period with each other, we should find that we exported
from the sth of July, 1816, to the sth of July, 1847,
58,112,465/. real value, and 128,974,3571 official value;
and from the sth of July, 1847, to the sth of July, 1848,
53,735,0644 real value, and 132.078,4594 official value, being
a difference of real value of 4,407,4014, and official value of
3,104.1021. This showed a filling off in our exports this
year below last year at 4,407,401 i. in real value, while the
official value (the test of quantity) showed an increase in this
year over last ;year of 3,104,102/. in quantity, indicating A
depreciation of 26 per cent., or about 13,000,0061.; and if
we added to this the'diminution of the real value, or money
received far the exports this year below that of last year, we
should find a loss upon the export trade of this year alone of
17,000,000/. as compared with last year.— (Hear, hear.) He
hoped the House would not be tempted by the Hon. Mem-
ber for West Surrey to laugh off this question and insult the
distress which the country had suffered. The Hon. Gentle-
man was proceeding, when
An HON. MElnnot moved that the House be counted.
Strangers were accordingly ordered to withdraw, but forty
Members were found to be present, and
Mr. NEWDEGATE resumed his argument. The Hon.
Gentleman said that he would take the hint which had been
given, and sooner than that any abrupt termination of this
discussion should take place, he would at once resume his
seat, apologising to the House for having so long trespassed
on their attention, and trusting that they would not allow
themselves to be deterred, by ridicule or by attempts to
"count out," from the consideration of a subject their neg-
lect of which they could not themselves justify, and the
people of England would not excuse.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down need not make any
apology for addressing the House on the subject before it,
for no independent Member who sat in it had a better right
to do so, as none had paid more attention to it, or was more
competent to speak upon it.—(Hear, hear.) He could not
agree with the lion. Gentleman, however, in the opinion
that the comparison of the declared or of the official value
of our exports had so much to do with this question as he
appeared to think it had.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said that he bad only adduced that
comparison to show the extent of the depreciation of the
value of our exports.—(Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER—He quite
concurred, at the same time, in the great importance of the
subject which had been brought under their notice; and he
by no means denied the Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr.
Ferries) right to bring on this question early in the next
session if he pleased ; but he could not thick that he would
gain anything by pledging that House in the present
session to take the question into its consideration in
the next, inasmuch as he would have it in his power to
bring it forward himself in the next session of Parliament
as he had in this. He must say that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman bad not given ene single reason why the House
should assent to his motion, though he had said that it was
inconvenient to discuss this subject on the present occasion,
so far as any practical results were concerned. Under these
circumstances, therefore, he should conclude the few remarks
be had to make by moving the previous question—(Hear,
hear)—because that motion would best give expression to
the opinion which that House had ever entertained, that it
was highly inconvenient that they should pledge themselves
in one session, as to taking any subject into their considera-
tion at an early peri,d of another.—( Hear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman had gone into some discussion respecting the
formation of the Committee which had sat in that House on
this subject, but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought
he ought, by that time, to he acquitted of the charge formerly
brought against him, that he had formed a Committee
Geutlemen notoriously pledged to the support of the Act
of
1841; for if any Hon.. Member would look at thde:dhieviipsrioin.
ns
which took place in that Comm finit
ittee,be would
cipal question decided upon to have been only carried
_bya
majority of two.—( Hear, hear.) But the Right Hon. Ge n.
ttoleenxirtenre'sisiedeaanoyt ad Committee
or j
teeseemed
etnotbeo,t thitzatowitnw,
adopt, however foolish they might be, and without any. re-
gard!)ns
of the witnesses examined before it.—(Hear, hear.) But it
abs not
to the ground on which they were founded, the opinions
to-
t
to exercise a judgment appeared to him (Sir
tCo.
plpVoosoedd)ttohtahtei to' aC p
inioomnsmoiftt
aee was not
majorityo
of its witnesses, it would be useless to appoint a Cocessmma
given
the
as a deliberative body—(Hear, hear)—and onlyne necessary
appoint a short-hand evidence
writer to take down
Committees had been of any very great of these
before it. He (Sir C. Wood) was not of opinion that the ap-
pointment
advantage. He did wish, however, that the evidence taken

) Lord G. BENTINCK said he was not satisfied with the
explanation given by the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. HUME complained of the mode in which returns
were furnished to that House.
After a few words from Mr. G. RoniNsos and 3L-.
HENLEY,
The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that. much
of the inconvenience arising. from the returns furnished to
that House arose from the tact, that departments were asked
for returns which they really could not furnish with accuracy.
The returns moved for by the Noble Lord would, if granted,
only mislead the public.
Mr. SPOONER said that the explanation given by the
Government on this subject was anything but satisfactory.
Mr. WILSON explained the discrepancy in the returns in
question to arise from the fact that those which appeared
under the head of the Customs were taken from the ship's
manifest, while those under the head of the Board of Trade
were the result of careful official information of the goods
which had gone through all the fOrms incidental to ware-
housing, &c.
Mr. aIACGREGOR said that some new system must be
adopted with respect to the entry of ships in the various
ports of the kingdom.
Mr. DISRAELI said he had in his hands the Custom-
house return, which was said not to be official, and yet he
found that it was stated ()a the face of it that it was published
by authority. Now, these Custom-house returns were long
looked to by the commercial world as en authority. If it was
not official it was authentic. The return from the statistical
department of the Board of Trade might be official, but it was
not authentic. The. Custom-house return was that which the
merchants relied on.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he would not object to the
return.
Sir ROBERT PEEL raid one of these returns was
official, the other not strictly so. The question was, whe-
ther they could not make such a return as would give the
public this information, without stamping it with en official
character.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said there could be no objection
to the suggestion of the Right Hon. Baronet, but the mo-
tion of the Noble Lord must be put in another form; as it
stood it would lead to an impression, that there was error on
the part of those who furnished the returns. The fact was,
that the Custom-house returns were earlier in point of date,
the other more accurate after the sugars were weighed, and
their true quantities ascertained.
Mr. HERRIES thought it ought to be explained how
discrepancies as great had arisen, as a difference between
9,0004 tons and 20,000.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sad he
would make inquiry from the Customs department to ascer-
tain how the discrepancy arose, and whether the return was
correct.

➢lr. BROWN said the sugars on their shipment in the
West Indies were not accurately weighed, and that would
account for the difference.
Lord G. BENTINCK then consented to withdraw his mo-
tion, which was accordingly withdrawn.
COMMERCIAL DISTRESS.
•

- -
Mr. HERRIES rose to bring forward the motion of which
he had given notice, on the subject of commercial distress.
He did so with reluctance at this period of the session, but
he felt himself compelled by a sense of duty to bring the sub-
ject before the House, and in doing so he hoped to be favoured
with their indulgence. The motion he had to submit was as
follows :—" That this House resolve early in the next session
of Parliament to take into its serious consideration the re-
ports from the Committee of this House, and from the Com-
mittee of the House of Lords communicated to this House, ap-
pointed to inquire into the cause of the recent commercial dis-
tress, and how far it has been affected by the law for regu-
lating the issue of bank-notes payable on demand." He felt
assured that if it was understood in the country that this sub-
ject was to remain as it now was, without any fur-her discus.
sion during the present session, it would have a most unsatis-
factory effect upon the public mind. He could not exaggerate
the importance of this subject; and he was certain, therefore,
that it would receive all due attention from the House. Ihey
were all aware that in 1844 the then Government felt themn-
selves called upon to revise and reconsider the engagements
existing between the Bank of England and the public, and
that they proposed a most material alteration in the nature
of these engagements, and in the regulations that governed
the currency of the kingdom. The measure of 1844 was in-
troduced by gentlemen of the highest influence and autho-
rity ; it was supported by great eloquence and power, and
received the approbation of the House generally, though there
were many exceptions. It proceeded on the assumption that
it was necessary to introduce some stringent regulation in
order to govern the currency of the country, consisting of
issues of bank- notes payable on demand, so as to prevent
certain evils which were assumed to be at the bottom
of the commercial convulsions experienced before that
time. It was assumed that to the nature of the issues
of the Bank of England those commercial convulsions
were mainly owing, and that by certain alterations
they might be prevented for the future. The new
measure, it was said, would prevent the evils arising
from the too frequent fluctuations in the value of money,
and would at the same time put an end to undue mercantile
speculation ; and, as a climax to the advantages that were to
be derived from the measure, it was said that it would effec-
tually secure the convertibility of the bank-note. There
were, however, many who did not concur in these favour-
able anticipations of the Bill of 1844, and who thought they
saw in the machinery of the Bill the cause of- positive dan-
ger. It was feared by some that the proposal to divide the
Bank into two departments, viz., the issue and the
banking departments, would not only not answer the
purpose for which it was intended, but might lead to
great and difficult crisis in the commercial affairs of the
country. 'rime had now brought to the test the differ-
ences of opinion which were then expressed. The course of
events within the short period of three years brought the
working of that measure completely to the test, and fully
proved how well founded were the objections which had been
urged against it. It might now be declared beyond all pos-
sibility of doubt, that that Act had not succeeded in pre-
venting undue and extravagant speculation, for three such
years of extravagance and speculation as those which fol-
lowed it had never been lumen in the history of the world.
Neither had it prevented extraordinary fluctuations in the
value of money, for within a period of eight or nine months
they had seen the interest of money at three per cent, and at
ten percent.—(hear, hear.) Certainly the note had never
become inconvertible, and he hoped it never would, but it
was impossible for any one to show that its convertibility
had been secured by this Act. The experience of the last
three years had proved that the dangers anticipated front
the machinery of the Act were but too real. The
events of the month of October were sufficiently fresh
in the minds of all, and would long be remembered
by the mercantile community; and it was therefore un-
necessary for him to go into the details of that period
It was sufficient for hint to state that the Government were
compelled to step in and suspend time provisions of the Act
•of 1844, and that this proceeding was hailed by Parliament
with satisfaction.—( Hear.) On the present occasion he
would confine himself to the restricting clause of the Act.
His object was to impress upon the House the necessity of
assuring the public that they would, at the earliest time
they could undertake it, deliberately consider this subject
with a view to determine whether that Act of 1844, so far
as restrictive measures were concerned, ought to be retained,
modified, or repealed.—(Hear.) The Government had pro-
posed and obtained the appointment of a Committee to
consider this subject, but the only effect of that step had
been to throw off the discussion of the question to a distant
period of the session.—(Hear, hear.) One of the most re-
markable features of that Committee was its composition.
Of the twenty-six persons comprising it, eight or ten were
opposed to the object of inquiry, and nearly all the others
were at the disposal of those who bad the management of
the Committee.—( /tear.) The House of Lords also appointed
a Committee; and after a long lapse of time they had now
two ►epoi ts, and it was to those reports lie wished to call the
attention of the House, as affording the strongest possible
grounds for his motion. The Committee of the House of
Commons reported that the evidence which bad been given
was very contradictory; and he would show that it was
un-
doubtedly
so.. They also reported that the beneficial effects
of the Act of 1814, as regarded the issues of country banks,
banksbad been admitted, and that though some witnesses
alteration in
sug-
gested alterations, very few had proposed
an-v
was based. The
the general principle on which the measure
Committee thought it should be left for the Government for
the time being to take such measures as
mightmlg.tit occur;
thought.ur;
and
best calculated for any such eigency a
they did not think it expedient to make any alterations in
the Act of 1844. The opinion of the House of Lords' Coin-
mittee differed very materially from that of the House of Com-
mons' Committee. The recommendation of the House of Lords'
Committee was to the effect that the principle on which the
Act of 1844 should be amended was that of a discretionary
power to be exercised by the Bank of England in cases of
exigency. Here were two Committees reporting in opposi-
the
tion ;
other t one thinking it
tha bettter to leave things as they were,
thinking the Act of 1844 ought to be
amended. He would show on how slender a foundation the
report of the Commons' Committee rested; and he roust
give credit to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the
great
dexterity and indomitable intrepidity of his management.
There were six Members intimately connected with com-
mercial affairs in the Commons' Committee; and it was re-
markable that of those five voted always with the minority.
But what was the character and effect of the evidence? Peo-
ple out of doors could not be expected te read the evfdence
so
as to satisfy themselves of its true bearing, and therefore
he should give a brief analysis of it. The Committee exa-
mined twenty-six witnesses on the two subjects of ievestiga-
tion. Of those two were examined exclusively on the sub-
ject of the East India trade. Deducting ithem, he would
divide the remaining twenty-four into five classes. The
first consisted of persons delegated and selected by
large commercial bodies to represent them and ex-
press their opinion before the Committee. Mr. Bevan
was selected by the London bankers; Mr. Bitkbeck
was selected to convey the opinions of the country bankers;
Mr. Kinnear was deputed by the Chamber of 'Commerce,
Glasgow; Mr. Macfarlane by the Chamber of Commerce,
Edinburgh. These four witnesses were of the same opinion
with respect to the Act of 1844, attributing to it the effect of
having considerably aggravated the commercial distress of
1847, and stating that it required to be amended by the
introduction of some power to abate its restricting regula-
tions. The second class consisted of persons presiding over
large commercial and banking establishments. Ot those
there were eight; three represented the Bank of England,
including the governor and deputy-governor; one the
Bank of Ireland; four others represented different bank-
ing establishments ; Mr. Anderson, the Union Bank of
Scotland; Mr. Bell, the City of Glasgow Bank; Mr.
Murray, the Provincial Bank of Ireland ; and Mr.
Bristow, the Northern Bank of Ireland. The witnesses
who represented the Bank of England steadily supported the
Act of 1844. Mr. Anderson, Mr. Bell, Mr. Murray, and
Bristow were most distinctly of opinion that the Act
required amendment.
The third class consisted ofindi-
viduals of great eminence and experience in the money-
market of the metropolis—Mr. Gurney, perhaps the greatest
money dealer in the world; Mr. Bates, a partner in the great
house of Barings'; Mr. Horsley Palmer, who thought it in-
expedient to continue the provisions made by the Act of
1844 with respect to the Bank of England. The fourth class
consisted of persons engaged in banking from provincial
towns. There were six gentlemen examined who were con-
cerned in manufacturing or banking establishments in the
provinces. Mr. Pease represented the manufacturing and
mining districts of the north in the neighbourhood of
Durham; Mr. Hodgson and Mr. Turner, the one a banker
and the other a merchant, were examined from Liver-
pool; Mr. Gardner, from Manchester; Mr. Salt and Mr.
Muntz, front Birmingham; they all expressed an opinion
adverse to the provisions of the Act of 1844. He should
exclude, however, the last two witnesses, as being op-
posed to the Act of 1819 as well as the Act of 1844. The
fifth class consisted of those gentlemen who were de-
scribed in the report as theoretically acquainted with the
subject under the consideration of the Committee, though
not practically engaged in business, namely, Mr. Jones Loyd,
Mr. Tooke, and Mr. Taylor. It was hardly necessary
to state that Mr. Loyd was as strong a supporter of the Act
of 1844 and an opponent of alteration as the Governor and
Deputy-Governor of the Bank of England. Mr. Taylor was
opposed to the whole monetary system of the country, to the
Act of 1819 as well as the Act of 1844. Of the twenty-four
witnesses nineteen were against the Act of 1844; but there
was one, Mr. Macdonald, whose evidence be abstained from
adducing, and there were three whom he excluded from view,
as opposed equally to the Acts of 1819 and 1814; twenty re-
mained whose testimony was to be weighed. 01 these, six-