The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-26 00:00:00

-S

Hon. Members opposed to a Coercion Bill should not give their . advantage of the great body of the people.—( Hear, hear.)
votes in tavour of It in consequence of the measures recently Th.: people of Ireland abro:nl were as well disposed
passed through that House, and that those who were in and as industrious as the English or Scotch ; why,
favour of it should not give their votes against it for the then, were they in their own country the
opposite reason. Nothing could be more reasonable wild beasts they had been represented to be
than the first part of the Right Honourable Baronet's shooting and murdering each other? It was the bad state of
proposition. He hail yet to learn that any man would get up the law, and the way in which the Legislature had acted to-
and say he would vote for a Coercion Bill because of a Corn- wards them. He had a return in his hand, from which it ap-
merce Bill which had passed that house, and totally irrespec- peared that the four counties in which the greatest number of
Live of the merits of the Bill, the conduct of the Minister who mud hovels prevailed, was Kerry, Mayo, Clare, and Cork,
had introduced it, and the claims he had on the confidence of while in all the other counties a large proportion of the
the country. The Bill must be pre-eminently considered a dwellings were of the same character. The Hon. Gentleman
question of confidence, and when they found that it I here read several extracts from the return in question, show-
invested the Government with a discretionary Power- i"g that in those coulltii, where the greatest number of mud
surely it could be considered in no other light. Cabins prevailed, and where the people were most crowded to-
He would take the following as an illustration. If the Govern- gether, the amount of crime and outrage was the greatest.
merit, ins' ead of coming down to that House with free-trade These returns would (the Hon. Member continued) suffi-
measures, and proposing that all restriction on the importation cientiy show that poverty was at the root of a great deal of
of food should c- ate and be abolished, had come down to that the evil complained of. But poverty was not the only cause
House, and sought for a discretionary power to open the ports— —there was also the question of tenant-right. Lord Devon's
he merely gave that as an iilustration—it would be very evident Commission showed that the eviction of tenants was a fruitful
to every Hon. Gentlem in in that House, that, in so doing they source of much of the outrage and crime that abounded.
would have asked for a larger power, and greater confidence, Poverty and bad laws were at the bottom of Irish grievances,
than they bad done with their present course; and he could and, unleos they grappled with these, no coercion law would
choose no distinction between a question of con& be found availing to counteract crime and to protect property.
donee on the restriction of food over the liberties of a Let them give the Irish people confidence in the law, and they
whole people. If they were not prepared to intrust the Govern- would soon be found as good subjects as were the people of
ment with such large powers in ow case, neither were they either England or Scotland. On these grounds he should vote
prepared, unless they had the most perfect confidence in the against the second reading of the Bill.
Government, to invest them with a discretionary power to sus. Viscount NEWPORT would vote against the Bill, not from
pond the constitutional liberties of seven millions of their a desire ot continuing opposition to her Majesty's Government,
fellow-subjects ; and, therefore, he thought that the Right Hon. but because he though
theitrish embers on the opposite g side of
question of confidence in the Government, indulged in a view of the House against the Bill, and that they were divided in
the question which the House would hardly support. opinions on this side of the House. This was some evidence
He had no vote to rescind on the present occasion, and although that the Bill was one which should not be agreed to by the
be did not wish to vote against it, still he could not bring his House. If this measure were of so vital importance, as it was
mind to vote in favour of the measure. He had heard professed to be, it should have been brought forward and pro-
w much of the eviis of a nominal protection that ceeded with before any other measure. If they really thought
it had in some degree become the habit of his mind. that the lives of the people of Ireland stood in need of protec-
He bad applied this principle to the present Bill. There were tion they would not have treated the measure as one of an or-
two points which had not been spoken to in the present debate, Binary nature. The Bill was a most unconstitutional one, he
which were first, whether this Bill would really pass ; and second, would, therefore, oppose it.
if it did pass whether it would be of any service at all. They Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON. was surprised to see the
bad been called upon to pass the present Bill, on the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn prompt the last Noble
round that if they threw it out it would give an Speaker.—(No, no.) If the Noble Lord denied it, he would
He was not satisfied that then withdraw his observations, It was quite impossible for
impetus to agitation.
all the means had yet been tried in order to put down tke him as an Irish Member to give his vote in favour of the Bill.
outrages which existed, and protect life in Ireland. The 2d He felt, however, that it was his painful duty to do so. He
and 3d William IV. was tried in the county of Leitrim with had listened to all the arguments which had been brought for-
success. In the other counties it hail not been tried at all. ward on the present occasion, but he had heard nothing that had
Be could not consent to the present abrogation of the constitu- the effect of altering his opinions upon the subject of the necessity
tion, when in one county at least the present law had been for these stringent measures. On a former occasion, there was
suchessful.—( Hear, hear.) It was a bad policy to resort to no disposition in the House similar to that which influenced it
extrinordinary measures, when the ordinary ones had not ors the present occasion, and induced it to slur over, as it had
been tried. Until they had tried the present law, it done, the accounts of the disturbed state of Ireland. He
was most unfair to suspend the constitutional liberties thought the circumstance was only attributable to the great
of a whole nation. The Right Hon. Baronet said the measure height to which party feeling was allowed to operate upon the
was only a topical remedy, and not to be applied to all Ireland. minds of Hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the House. It was
If it were so—if he laid stress on that character of the men- more than three years since great complaints were made to the
sure, they must look to those long resident in the five coon- Government for keeping a great number of troops in Ireland ;
ties whether such a remedy would be effectual. He thought the constitutional susceptibility of some Hon. Members ap-
that all those who were connectedwith those counties from peared to have changed considerably since that period, for they
long ties, and had intimate knowledge, would be found going had asked the Government why, instead of pressing their mea-
against the measure. Every one must admit that it would sure, they did not increase their military force in that country.
produce great alienation of feeling, and
.they ought to pause He (Lord Hamilton) contended that the proposed measure
and consider whether the good to be obtained would counter- would be less oppressive than the keeping up of large bodies of
balance the evil. He, at least, would say that as a native of troops, who would be paraded about the country. He denied
Ireland, a resident in that country, and a magistrate, that he the statement which had been made by the Hon. Member for
could not consent to the measure.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Montrose (Mr. Hume), that the policy of the Government
He considered it would be impossible to carry out the curfew had been a one-sided policy, favourable to Protestants. He
clauses of the Bill. The provision was totally impracticable. defied the Hon. Member to put his finger upon a single Act
The Bill was totally inapplicable to the country, and that clause which, during the last five years, had been passed by the
-particularly which enacted that the people should be confined Government having that tendency. He could refer to a num-
la their houses from sunset to sunrise. He himielf could not ber of Bills, the Alaynooth Bill, the Bequests Acts and
enforce it in his own county. He would feel it, therefore, to others which were of the very reverse nature. It was a
be his duty to oppose the second reading of the Bill, very ordinary argument that all the evils of Ireland owed
There was a reason, however, for the increase of crime their origin to the legislation of that House. If that argu-
ire Ireland which those around him would readily ment were good, he would ask why did not all Ireland present
understand.—( Hear, hear.) He traced it to the failure in the same symptoms, inasmuch as every part of it was governed
the potato crop. The people found famine staring them in by the same laws ? Every one, however, knew that such was
the face, and the consequence was the outrages that swelled not the case. A great stress was also laid upon the tenant
the returns, but they ought not, in fairness, to be set down to the right in Ulster, without which, it was said by the Hon.
ordinary condition of the people. He had no hesitation in bearing Members for Armagh and Cork that that province would be
his testimony to the conduct of the first Minister, and in exactly in the same situation as the other parts of Ireland
stating that the measures taken by the Right Hon. Baronet where outrages existed. He denied this, and contended that
to meet that state of things were more effective in warding the arrangement of what was called the tenant right was not
of the distress and the evils than any Coercion Bill.—( Hear.) a compact between the landlord and tenant. The only ground
However imperative it might be in them to show the necessity on which it rested was the expectation on the part of the in-
of sometimes sacrificing their old opinions, still, after the coming tenant that in case he should leave the land he would
Miserable exhibition which had been seen that session, he did be repaid the amount which he had paid to his predecessor.
Lot regret having said at its commencement that he This, however, could not exist in Tipperary, inasmuch as there
o wed unfettered allegiance to party. The usages and laws was no money paid by the tenant geing into possessionsession of his
cef that House had been constructed with reference to two great holding, nor did he think that the moral state which
parties, and because there had been more than two he believed prevailed there would tolerate the existence of such a usage.
that those laws were inefficacious, and would remain so. He Every attempt had been made to improve the moral and social
refight say that if hereafter he should have to vote for coercive condition of the people, hut it was all to no purpose. Legis-
Measures, and ho did not mean to say that it might never lation had been tried in vain, and he thought that nothing re-
c ome, he should not regret having been able to advocate mained but coercion. The Noble Lord concluded by defending
a milder policy; and if he should hereafter have to the landlords of Ireland, whom he considered a very ill-used set
labour with those whom he was now to assist in throwing out of men; who if they were permitted to carry out their benevo-
of office, in any capacity ender them he should not labour the lent intentions towards the people of Ireland, would, in a short
loss cheerfully for being compelled to express his want of con- time, cause a far different state of things to exist in that un-
-6 denee in them at present, and to record his vote against happy country.
Mr. C. BULLER thought this was a subject on which they
tibem now.
Mr, VESEY feared that he should appear to some disad- ought to have been spared the declamation of the Noble Lord
vantage at this part of the debate, but he could not remain who had just sat down, and it seemed to him that if they con-
*Ay longer silent. Norther could he refrain from expressing tented themselves, like the Noble Lord, with merely looking to
his concurrence in the toitimony of praise to the Right Hon. the moral depravity of the people, without endeavouring to
secretary for the Homo Department ; but further than apply a remedy to the grievances under which they laboured,
this he could not go, for, as an Irish proprietor, he could their condition would never be much improved. A few nights
in no way accede to the necessity of this Bill.—( Hear, hear.) ago he made a few observations in reply to the Hon. Member
he should go on two grounds, one was the necessity, and for Bath, and he then took an opportun ty of saying that he
the other was the policy of this Bill. If he admitted the had, in the year 1833, when he was then but a young Member
police reports he was bound to say that there was great of that House, opposed the Coercion Bill of Lord Grey. On
heasnn shown for the severe measures which were projected one part of the question he went entirely with his Hon. and
a gainst Ireland. But in stating thus much he mutt call the Learned Friend in deprecating the personality which l.ad cha-
antention of the House to the fact that instead of the five racterised the present debate. He thought it odious that these
counties those reports had reference to the whale of the country, personalties should have been made. And more odious that
seed in the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet it was evident such a determination should have prevailed to affix them to any
that he had merged the five counties in the whole of the private individual.--(Hear, hear.) He was of opinion, taking
country, so that there was ne sufficient reason for the applica- everything into account, that the circumstances which had ow-
tion of thes Bill to the whole of tIA country. He could state a curred had arrested the attest ion of the House to the condition
fact which occurred five years ago, and t tis was in particular of Ireland, and would be productive of a better state of feel-
reference to tfre most objectionable part of the Bill, but one which ing and a new state of legislation towards that country. He
aught to have lheen included, vie., the security for the witnesses. would now state his objection to the Bill. He thought that, as
This was a case which occurred when he was empannelled on a measure of coercion, it was exceedingly paltry, and very
the Grand Jury, when a man was brought forward whose ill adapted for the state ot things which prevailed ' Ireland.y
ho use had been attAcked by a party in search for arms; and If the country was in a state orinsurrection,co'uld seetti
not only had he stated when brought before the Grand Jury, policy of confining men in their houses from sunset to sunrise,
that if he gave evidenhe his life would be in danger, but when but it was admitted on all sides that the country was not in
his brother was brought. before the jury he fell upon
ehvisidireaneaees such a condition. One thing was most remarkable, namely,
and entreated that he might not be compelled to
give
that
during the last fifteen years the generality of crimes of a
tumultuous nature had decreased, except in the case of rob-
It had again been urged that other remedies might be
pp
beries of arms, far which they might thank their own Arms
*red for this state of things. He was glad to see
the 1
remediese Secretary for Ireland. It had been urged that
which had been introduced by the Noble Bill, which appeared to him to be a most efficient means
Lord th
of giving to the lawless the knowledge of houses where arms
special commissions, increase. of the constabulary, and other were placed. But crimes of assaults en individ crimes greatly
g increased in proportion as the former class of had di-
means of that sort, might be beneficial in oheckiu
the present state. Special Commissions had been tried in minished. How were they by an Act to shut up the people
vain in Queen's County, for at the very time a Special Corn- from sunset to sunrise to prevent noonday murders? It was
Mission was sitting in that county some of the foulest murders an old and a stale question ; but still it had never been an-
were committed. Lord Grey had introduced his famous swered.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that the clauses of the
coercion measure in consequence of the report of a Committee Act were by no means calculated to repress those outrages.
of that House appointed to inquire into the disturbed state of Under the Government of Lord Normanby—at least at its corn-
Ireland. A great cause of the prevalence of crime in Ireland
mencement—crime was infinitely greater than it was at pre-
Was the sympathy of the people with those who committed sent. Lord Normanby commenced by endeavouring to obtain
ioffences.l
If it was not sympathy in all cases, it was at
least a the confidence of the people, and he obtained the confidence of
'`ant of readiness to assist in the detection of offending parties. their acknowleged leaders ; and what was the result ? Crime
Let them destroy that feeling of sympathy if they hoped to had, at the commencement of Lord Fortescue's Government,
im Drove the condition of the country. The provisions of the gradually and steadily decreased, until it was not one-half of
Bill would operate to some extent in altering this stale of what it was when Lord Normanby commenced. Lord Nor-
things. He did not agree with the Hon. Member for manhy, however, did not attribute that diminution to the effect
Northamptonshire, that if the curfew clause was passed no of his policy. He attributed it to the effect of a Coercion
wean would be safe. If that Hon. Member would read it Bill which was in preparation, and which, he ad-
aright, he would find that no person would be affected unless mitted never came into operation, and he, therefore, afterwards
they were actually out at night, and could not give a satin- was in favour of coercive measures. If it had, however, beers
fentory account of the business on which they were engaged. the terror of the Coercion Bill which operated on the people,
He now. turned to the Committee which reported on the state the terror would be greater immediately after the passing of
of Ireland in 1832, which was composed principally of liberal the Bill and before it came into operation. Crime would have
Members. That Committee reported that protection should
ever,
diminished at first, but when the people became freed from
those terrors, crime would break out again. That was, how-
he given to life andr property, and that measures should be
toafrigailfttefrultheexpteasest: w nit
Act
tote
rtiorne be
atth
once
e ecase;e i
e efroera immediatelys ed
put down Ne hiteboyism and nocturnal outrages. The
taken to
Hon. Member here quoted several extracts from the evidence ing of
shthe o
all of whfch went to
taken 'where that Committee, and continued increasing with great rapidity for some time
then
show the gheat disturbance which
foritsprevailed, and after. It did not seem to him that, even when they had ad-
which existed
t .
th
dsupprhession. vanced so far into the nature of the remedies which should be
the neceseit e
• ht fail in effectually s opping e istur ances, applied to Ireland, that they had got to the bottom of the
Though this might
effect in preventing those combinations problem. They hadyet to devise some means of giving a per-
it would yet have a great .
h were now so rife. The Hon
for criminal purposes which
from the speech of Sir • • •
. manent remedy to that country. They had had repeated in-
`quoted an extract
in quiries in that House, and repeated reports of Commissions,
Gentleman then
were strongly favour of the and they all
opinions
William Smith, whose h of his
Bill. He would beg to call to recollection a speec from agrarian causes, and to the utter dependence of the Irish
Right Hon. Friend, in which he had thanked the Government, peasant on the cultivation of land, and his adherence to that cul-
an.
speech he pleaded that fathers and mothers of fami- tivated land which lie had tilled in the midst of the wilderness
d in that epee
bed in peace. with the assurance that them• around him, and the destitution which necessarily resulted from
lies might
families would not be awakenedby the midnight his ejection from it. He would quote from an authority which he
selves and their
he called upon his Hon. Friend to give a cordial, feared might be disagreeable to many around him, but which
Murderer ; and
support
to the Government, notwith- certainly was agood one on this
subject. He alluded to Mr.
honourable, and impartial
ed between him d
standing the difference whichxist an them. Foster, the Times commissioner, and he found, in one of his
Mr, HUNIE did not expe .
et to have to address the House, first letters, that in the county of Cavan, disturbances arose
have
a that the Bill would been withdrawn. from two particular cases of ejection, of which he gave the
for he fully expecte
not help congratulating the House •
circumstances. He also traced these risings to the same cause
• Yet he nevertheless could
had taken place with re t t
no the change of opinion which
t. h . w.,,,, h ,
-, - - - in other places; and, on the contrary, gave instances of the
mber thetime w en, in a House perfect security with which those who acted the
coercion Bills. He did remember
r that they could muster,
of 550 INlostbers, all the oppositien
Comprised in the
r, part of good landlords rright traverse the country.
h and Irish, was onlynumber All the best authorities in Ireland, all the best informed
English. Salto , greatly changed, but he
of 89 Membehs. The case was now
ore changed, for when he travellers, and indeed every one who knew anything of Ireland,
had hoped that it would have beenfin
the Right onourble agreed that the outrages of the poor arose from the outrages
speeches o on the poor. He admitted that the sympathy of the people
referred to the nd of lastsessions he -
Graham) at the e , with these who committed agrarian outrages was a most hor-
Baronet (Sit James ey sentence f those speeches. ribly perverted feeling, but it was their duty to attempt to
found that conciliation marked eve_
ftimes gone by. He a
'net had spoken o reme y it, and riot to spend their time in declamation, but to
The Right Hon. gar,
mar
rester outrages in Ireland than go at once to the root of the evil, and to remove it. lie could
(Mr, Hume:, remembhre g
Baronet had adduced. He would not see how they could ever put an end to these outrages with-
any which the- Right Hon,
a Ireland in 1823,
se to the st• te of' out providing for the people the security which the 1 peop eof every
call the attention of the Hatt , .
whieh was decidedly Christian
recall his expression of opinion, . , , other country in the world enjoyed. Let them look at
and What had been stated in that the condition of the peasantry in every other ountry in the
against the present measure. What
Sir H. Parnell had said that world, and they would find that there was othernoe country in
House by Sir
course of ill treatment we had made that country the world in which the peasantry could be ejected at the caprice
fby along s e
th ' measures would not remove of the rich man. In foreign countries
the peasants security
a nation ot waves, all „ coerciver
A eatment. That country had all along „.a, partly in the proprietorship of the soil. Even the serf of
the effects of that bad tr
of protestant oppression, and in Russia could not be left to starve by his master, and in England
been governed by a
system
refer to the penal enactments the existence of the peasant was secured by the poor-law. Yet
order to show that he could refer
them from filling the in this kingdom Mr. Gerrard had turned out 800 men
against the Catholics, which pr ,
fle were precluded 'nom because he thought he should make a few hundreds
meanest offices in the kingdom. precluded by the h t't t.of bullocks• dof
vr• were even more su si u ion
any offices connected with the la-, and
arm • and navy ; and But the ease was different with respect to Ireland. Since the
from filling the situations of officers in the
11 th •
effect time when the old Norman Barons used to serfs
though their
though these enactments had been repealed,
remained to a considerable extent, very
acid were a greatit served their purpose, there was no country in which
when
What with Co- h peasantry had been worse treated than in Ireland.— He r
source of annoyance to the Irish Catholics. ente t e They could not get rid of the population of Irela(nd a'
ercion Bills, the Arms Act, anti other coercive enactin ~ hear.
) the estates of the landed proprietors h 'or
among t em, and
with the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, Ire- cut up l
alternative left them was to carry out the principle of
land had hardly ever been allowed to remain in a the ony
dish loge-law.—(Hear, hear.) No other remedy would
situation in which the more proper and cultivated feelings of the Eng
the evil, He knew there would be great difficulty in ex-
the people could be developed. The present system of govern- meet
me=lt. was rendered, by a party feeling, an uniform system of tending the English poor-law to Ireland, as the danger would
oppression upon the Catholics. if he looked through the be the confiscation of all p 1 .
ro ,ertv to support the people ; they
whole of Lord Grey's appointments, he would find the greater I should, therefore, in passing such a law, take care to accompany
part o; them were what he called Orange appointments. it with efficient measures for employing the people. He knew
Under these circumstances, was it surprising that Irishmen 't r way of doing so than by setting the people to culti-
should be dyed to the feelings of patriotism, and indifferent to no better
wart?
lands, on something such a plan as the Devon
the laws which' were nominally for their benefit? And that vale
t• • The principle should he to cultivate the improv-
Commission.
• had been done with the Bedford Level.
improv-
feeling would never be removed until her Majesty's Govern- able land in the way it
ment chose to cartes out those professions which they had given Even if it came to a last resort—if Parli-
last session, and adopt those measures of conciliation which —(Hear,
me(nHear, hear.)
r d to, It would not he, he was sure,
Corestore peace and tranquillity to Ire_ in the way which it had
only were capsulatedadvetrsewtere aptp le a
sum
of
money
land. The effect of the present system did.t notot only affect grwainthin g
the
West India planters. Grants of money
been dente
Ireland, it was felt in England. For was i
an de crime painful
which tto
might be made to enable the landed proprietors to improve
contemplate the mass of misery, destitution, _ ,
their estates, andl the people. They should
England was then to emp to
existed in It. eland, and for the relief of which e .
also do all they could to English capital
ought to be applied to diffe- encourage the flow of
compelled to use resources which
evilinto Ireland. But withallremedial measures of this kind,
would be got
never
rent objects ? He repeated, that the . there must be an efficient
persecution was . poor-law. But there must be some-
rid of until the present system of religious
of
civil thing different from material things employed to pacify Ire-
abolished, and the Catholic was made, in every respect land. The legislation
might promised towards Ireland had hitherto
right, equal tso any other member if the community, who, been most unsatisfactory. They had suffered
from a church in
be of a persuasion more favourable in the eyes of the country. I which the people did not believe, and been u • .
If the Hon. tGlentleman the Member for Northampton, and the ! sible authorities, which had been the continual
to irrespon-
Noble Lord t hie Member for Lynn, acted with regard to Ire- 1 pression. These must be remedied, as well
sal cause of op-
land upon th,,e same principles of justice which they wished for i for finding food and employment fortlse people. measurese taken
England, thethey might be sure of commanding, the affections of sitting down advert to the policy of her Majesty's wouldov before
the Irish people. The true way of conciliating the people of , towards Ireland. No one could accuse him of opposing
Ireland was to place them en the same footing as the Scotch 1
, very uncompromising manner the Government ; still hne anyre
and English 1 seople, What was wanted was, really to carry out 1, gretted to say that their measures in relation to Ireland, how:,
the union bet tween the two coun' rice. He had always been op- ever good in themselves, had lost half their value in the manner
Posed to are peal of the Union, but his desire was that it should in which they had been introduced. .
ho a Imrialicie, and not a parchment union. The difference Messengers from the Lords now entered the House with
between aer ee man and a slave was the participation of equal the Corn Bill, to which their Lordships had agreed. Their
rights and privileges by the former, and the Irish people would advent was hailed by general cheering.
never he tea a till the laws under which they lived were the Mr. C. BULLER, on noticing their entrance, expressed
aaece as tho. i.v enjoyed by the residents of this country. There the gratification which he experienced from such and so
was nothing in the institutions of Ireland that the people need welcome an interruption.—(Loud cheers. )—He thought, too,
ear° to press rye. They were entirely at the mercy of a few, that it would now be ungracious if, after this occurrence, he
vrkWee bpoAefit the laws had been framed, and not for the said 4 WON more against her Majesty's Ministers—(dreat

cheering)—so far as their Irish measures were concerned.
He could only deeply regret that the Bill now under discus-
sion should have been an exception to the policy by which,
during the present session, they had so much and so wisely
consulted the goodwill of the country.— (Cheers. )--He
further deeply regretted that it should have been his for-
tune, and that of Honourable Gentlemen on that side of
the House, to be compelled to give, on this occasion, a vote
which might be fatal to the existence of the Government—
( Hear, hear. )—He said this sincerely, from the bottom of
his heart, and he regreted that such should be the effect
of his vote. Without affecting any adherence to those gentle-
men, he might say he felt acutely the ungraciousness of ap-
pearieg -o select the moment ,Iten they bad conferred so
signal a service upon the nation, at the same time at a sacrifice
on their own part—(Loud cheers)—to join in a vote of which
such might be the effect, concurrently with those gentlemen
who desired to punish the Government for the good they had
done to the country.—(Cheers.) But he could not help it.
It was no fault of theirs (the Opposition) that this Coercion
Bill was introduced.—(Cheers.) Were the matter other than
what it was, he would be willing to abstain from opposition to
the Government; but any measure marking their policy to-
wards Ireland was of far too serious a nature, and too
important in its consequences, to be made the occasion of a
compliment to the Ministers.—:Cheers.) He knew that, the
Right lion. Baronet had looked all this fairly its the face,
and that when he came forward with a great measure which
would hand hint down to posterity—(Cheers)—and which
at present endeared him to the hearts of the people of this
country—(Cheers)—he had properly estimated the personal
sacrifice at which his object was to be accomplished—(" Hair"
from Sir R. Peel)—the penalty which was to be paid in the
loss of power.—(" Hear, hear,' from Sir R. Peel.) He
(Mr. C. Bullet) had in 1833, when a measure very similar
to this was introduced, and when his assent was asked to it
by a Minister who had established the most solemn claim to
the gratitude of the English people—he alluded to Earl Grey,
who, immediately after the pa-sing of the Reform Bill, sub-
mitted such a measure to the Reformed Parliament—he had
voted against it and against Earl Grey. He now would vote
against this measure and against the Right Hon. Baronet.—
( Cheers. ) It somewhat diminished the pain with which he
should give this vote to think that, by rejecting this Bill, they
would mark an important and a new era ire their legislation
for Ireland. It would be the first instance of the demands of a
Government for coercive power in Ireland being rejected by
that House.—(Cheers.) Let him trust that such a rejection
would effectually prevent a like demand being ever again
made from the Imperial Parliament.—(Loud cheers.)

CORN AND CUSTOMS BILLS—MESSAGE FROM
THE LORDS.
Messengers from the House of Lords brought up these two
Bills, along with several others, which they declared their
Lordships had passed without amendment.

The SPEAKER then read from the chair that the Corn
and Customs Bills had been passed by the House of Lords,
without amendment.—(The announcement was received with
tremendous cheering.)
Mr. BANKES said the Parliament had been assembled for
five er six months, yet this matter, which had been mentioned
in her Majesty's speech as of pressing importance, had been
delayed till the. present time—( Hear, hear)—such had
been the progress of the Bill. With respect to those who
voted for the first reading, he must say that that was no ex-
press sanction of the Bill, as the usual course was, with a Bill
in that stage of its proceeding, and coming from the House of
Lords, to allow it as a matter of course. This, therefore was
the first decided vote on the principle of the Bill in that House,
though five months after its introduction.—( Cries of
" Hear, hear.") He believed the Ministry had no
intention of carrying the Bill,, even though they carried the
second reading. It was well known that even now the Go-
vernment was perishing by self-combustion, and that three
days would witness their dissolution.—( Hear, hear, and pro-
tection cheers.) The Government well knew, even if they
could carry the secon dreading of the Bill, that they would live
but two or three days, and therefore they can have no intention
whatever of carrying the measure. Snch was the position of
the Bill and of the Government. He could not conceive how
a Government was justified in putting the country in a state of
excitement, and detaining the time of Parliament, seeing
they had no power whatever of carrying it into effect. At the
beginning of the session, when he was told by the Government,
as the Executive Government, that the measure was neces-
sary for the safety of Ireland, he decided to support them, and
had they shown a disposition to push the Bill forward, it would
have still had his cordial support. They had not, however,
proved themselves sincere, and he could no longer support
them. In a conversation with an eminent lawyer in Ireland
(Mr. Brewster) which he had at the beginning
of the year, he then expressed himself, that though
he had much to complain of the Executive Govern-
ment, he would, if they were sincere, support the Coercion
Bill. At a subsequent meeting of those who acted with the
Noble Lord (Lord George Bentincli) it was also agreed on
that, if the Government really showed a disposition to push
the Bill forward and thought it necessary, they would support
it. That decision was intimated to the House at the time.
But they thought in consequence of the delay in bringing
the measure forward, that it was intended only as a political
tool between two contending parties. ; and very naturally
doubted the sincerity of the Government in speaking of the im-
minent necessity, or, as the Right Hon. Baronet had called it,
"dire necessity." It had been said the present measure
was to be tried by evidence. He quite agreed in that opinion,
and he would call his first witnesses from the Treasury bench,
whose evidence against the Bill was their delay in bringing it
forward. The second witnesses which he would call were the
Irish Members, and their evidence was entirely against the
measure. With such witnesses and with such evidence he
and the party with whom he acted could not but consider it
their duty to oppose the Bill. He thought the Government
wei e mistaken in their opinions of the state and remedies for
Ireland. Was it for him, and the parties with whom he acted,
to confer these unconstitutional powers on a Ministry just on
the eve of dissolution, and in whom they had no confidence?—
(Cheers.) It had been said, why did we not at first propose
a vote of censure, and then dispose of the Bill before the
House ? And, in his opinion the Hon. Member for Birming-
ham ( Mr. Seooner) coincided. He would ask that Hon.
Member whether he would think it advisable for him (Mr.
Bankes) to propose in that House, upon the present occasion,
a vote of csnsure on the Government, or join in an address to
her Majesty, praying her to remove her present advisers, and
immediately afterwards place in the hands of those same persons
these unconstitutional powers—powers which should not be
placed in the hands of any person, except in those in
whom they had unlimited confidence ? Or, would the Hon.
Member prefer the adoption of a course by which a vote of
censure would be proposed at a subsequent stage of the mea-
sure ? He did not think that would at all alter their situation.
He objected to placing, by any means, or in any way, such
power in the hands of persons in whom he had no
confidence.—( Loud cheers.) With reference to the measure
itself he would ask the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland,

if there had been any period since the Bill was first introduced
up to the present time, that the provisions of the Act would
have been carried into effect, supposing the Bill had passed
into a law ? If not, then he would say there was no necessity
for the measure. If, however, he should be told that there
was a period when the Act would have come into operation,
then nothing could justify the criminal delay in bringing this
measure forward. Under all these circumstances he considered
it would be dangerous and improper to give such delicate
powers to persons who did not possess the confidence of that
House.
Mr. SPOONER said his Hon. Friend the Member for Dor-
setshire had appealed to him on this question, and he (Mr.
Spooner) assured him that he did not feel the slightest difficulty
in anscering him, although his Hon. Friend thought he had
placed him in a very difficult position. He could not admit
that he was in a difficult position. He greatly doubted
whether the result would not prove that the Hon. Member for
Dorsetshiro was himself in a difficult position. His Hon.
Friend had rested his opposition to this measure, not upon the
positive fact of its not being necessary, but he inferred its non-
necessity from the conduct of the Ministers. He had like-
is winantthoef
to h it
nwninsefidreenseteedinhtihse oyinoissitteiorso
;ttaindthtihsenmehaesualrletnuie
usual way—to the test of a want of confidence in Ministers—
namely, an address to the Crown expressing that to be the opinion
of the House—and he (Mr. Spooner) cheered, that allusion
and that cheer brought forth the appeal. Now, his Hon.
Friend asked him whether he was prepared to vote no confi-
dence in Ministers, and whether he was ready to vote in favour
of the Government of the country going into other hands? Now
he ( Mr. S.) believed that that would be a perfectly constitutional
and Parliamentary course. He did not rest his support of this
measure upon the state in which Ministers were at the present
moment. If his Hon. Friend app, aled to that as a witnes for
the necessity of the measure, he (Mr. Spooner) would appeal
to the statements then lying on the table of that House. He
did not trust simply to the declaration of Ministers. He ap-
appealed to the statements of crime upon the table of the
House ; and, after a careful inspection of these documents, he
felt bound to grant the measure his support, as he believed it
to be essential for the preservation of life and property in Ire-
land.—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had likewise said that
he appealed to the Irish Members on the other side of the
House, and all of them had declared that the measure was not
necessary ; and even if necessary it would be found to be ineffi-
cient.—(Cheers from the Opposition side of the House.) He
(Mr. Spooner) appealed to all Hon. Members on his own side
of the House ; and, on the contrary, every one of them had
declared that the measure was necessary ; and they told the
House that the moral effect of refusing this measure would be
tremendous in Ireland. Increase of crime, and more out-
rages would, in their opinion, be the result ; the
rejection of this measure would be an encouragement
to the murderer.—( Hear, hear, and No, no.) They had
told them, that the most serious consequences would follow the
rejection of this measure, and he (Mr. Spooner) would say,
that he had had the opportunity of conversing with many of
the Hon. Members from Ireland, and particularly with one
who had just returned from Ireland, and he assured him, that
the well, disposed people of thi t country, apprehended with the
greatest dismay, the rejection of this measure—that its rejec-
tion would, in fact, most seriously endanger the peace of Ire •
land.—(Hear, hear.) Chose apprehensions were particularly
entertained by those who were called the Conservative party
in Ireland.—( Ironical cheers.) They said that if the House
of Commons rejected this measure, they believed that it w..,uld
he a triumph to one party in Ireland, whilst it would sink the
other into dismay, and that the consequences were such
as the Members of that House could not anticipate.—( Hear,
hear.) And he must say that those friends of the Conserva-
tive party in Ireland who sat on his side of the House had just
reason to complain—that having stood by the English Members
in the battle which they had recently fought for protection to
native industry—having fairly supported them through all the
arduous struggles in which they had been recently engaged—
( Ironical cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter)—he thought
that they had a just reason to complain that they had not even
been consulted with regard to their views upon this measure.
It was first intimated to them that it was the intention of the
Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, and those who acted with
him, to vote for the measure, as they conceived it to be
essential to the peace and prosperity of Ireland.—( Hear,
hear.) He (Mr. Spooner) confessed that when the Noble
Lord rose in his place, and stated, on behalf of himself and those
who usually acted with him, that it was the intention of him-
self and his friends to vote against it, it happened that he (Mr.
Spooner) did not happen to be informed of that intention, and
he did confess that he was strongly tempted at the time to get
up and disclaim any such intention on his own part.—(Laugh •
ter.) The Noble Lord had nu right to represent tint it was
his (Mr. Spooner's) intention to vote against the Bill. Ho
was glad that he did not rise at the moment to check the
Noble Lord, for the delay had given him time coolly to con-
sider what opinion he should entertain and ex7ress, of which
it might afterwards be difficult to get rid. He had given this '
measure a, cool, and calm, and indifferent consideration.—
h
d necessary by the majority of that House.
how the measure
was received in the House
( Cries of 0 Oh !") He had seen that this measure was
first of all considered
He had seen, too,
consent was given to the measure.
found that its unanimous d
i of that
• highly powerful party
He found that those Noble Lot
He had searched the records of that House, and he
the
: with Members on the other side of
that House of Commons voted for
ususually acted in unison
it. He contended, then,
that this measure was recommended in a
manner which ought
of— thoartainfluential party in other House—(oh, oh)—who
H at
Commons as to suffer it at least to go into Committee.—(Hear,
e
to call for such a support from the Members of the House of
hear.) He likewise conceived that those who had voted for
the first reading of the measure were called upon to vote for it
in its subsequent stages.
As a general principle, he admitted
that the House was not bound to do so on every Bill—that was
to say, with regard to Bills which were allowed to be read a
first time as a matter of course. And had they not gone into
A fall discussion upon this measure—had they not the while