The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-22 00:00:00

TUESDAY EVE NING, AUGUST'---

the inquiry which was now going on into the va-
lidity of his (Mr. Fitzgerald's) return, but as that
inquiry was bring conducted in a strictly impartial
spirit, he should be wanting in respect to the Committee
if lie adverted to the proceedings that were going on
before them. Ho could, however, assure the House
and the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General,
that he was in no way connected with the
parties who had commenced the action against him, nor
had he nny, the slightest, control over the conduct or
proceedings of those parties. They were acting entirely
independent of him, and had instituted the legal pro-
ceedings to attain an object of their own. The Hon. and
Learned Attorney- Geßeral, it would seem, had complained
that there were no witnesses to support the action, or they
would have been produced before another tribunal. Now
he could assure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
that he was altogether mistaken, for there were wit-
nesses who could speak to the charge preferred
against the Honourable and Learned Gentleman,
and who would have been examined .in support
of the petition presented in the early part of the
present session against the return for Horsham, had
it not been for the sudden withdrawal of the Gentle-
man who then represented the borough in that House.
If any course of investigation could be suggested by
which the facts might be arrived at it would meet with

his warmest cooperation.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said what fell from
him on Friday evening had not been correctly reported,
and he was not surprised that such should be the case,
taking into account the late period of the evening
at which he spo►ke. The House would be aware
that he had then no intention to bring the
matter under discussion, and that his statement
arose out of an accusation by the Hon. Member for
Youghal that the Corrupt Practices Bill had been
brought in to indemnify him (the Attorney. General)
against the action which had been brought against hies,
and which would subject him to a penalty, if it were
not compromised. Now he said on that occasion that he
had not compromised the action—(Hear, hear)—and
that he was anxious that it should be proceeded with.
He further stated the facts of the case, which were as
follows:--That, on the 27th or 28th of June, an oleo•

tion was held for the borough of Horsham. Upon that
occasion, Lord Edward Howard objected to the qualifi-
cation of the Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Fitz•
gerald),and he gave notice that he would petition. On the
30th of the same month he (the Attorney-General) was
served with a writ, which was issued from the office of
the attorney of the Hon. Member (Mr. Fitzgerald).
He (the Attorney-General) did not then draw
any inference from that fact, and he then
stated that he had directed his attorneys to examine
all the witnesses who were mentioned in the declara.

tion, and who were directly or indirectly engaged in the
transaction. They were prepared on oath, as he was to
deny the charge, and he did further state, as he believed
to be the fact, that the plaintiff or his attorney had not
examined one of those witnesses.—(Hear.)
VANCOUVER'S ISLAND.

In reply to a question from Mr. HUME,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated that it was the inten-

tion of the Government so propose that certain conditions)
should accompany the grant to the Hudson's Bay;
Company, with the view of promoting colonization.;
When all the papers on the subject were prepared, it'
was the intention of his Hon. Friend the Under-Secretary;
of State for the Colonies, to lay them before the Privy
Council, when their charter would be taken into consi-
deration.

Mr. GLADSTONE wished to know if any investiga-1
tion was to be instituted into the charges that had been!
brought against the Hudson's Bay Company of having:
used illegal and despotic powers? He had to express
his strong conviction that, however restrictions on the
company might tend to overcome positive evils and
abuses now existing, yet they would not overcome the
wretched unfitness for currying out colonization which
the Hudson's Bay Company had exhibited.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that an inquiry into the
conduct of the company. was instituted by the Secretary
of State for the Colonies before any discussion in that
House took place on the subject, and that inquiry wai
still proceeding, although it was not intended to wait
the result of the inquiry before the grant should take
place. He quite concurred in the opinions of his Noble
Friend (Earl Grey), that they were not likely to have
colonization in Vancouver's Island except through the
instrumentality of the Hudson's Bay Company.
Mr. G. A. HA MILTON then rose to move that as
humble address be presented to her Majesty,
praying that her. Majesty will be graciously pleased
to direct that such a modification of the
system of national education in Ireland may
be made as may remove the conscientious
objections which a very large proportion of the clergy
and laity of the Established Church entertain to that
system as at present carried into operation; or other-
wise, that means may be taken to enable those of the
clergy and laity of the Established Church who entertain
such conscientious objections, to extend the blessings
of Scriptural education in Ireland. He said it was
unnecessary to make any apology for submitting
the above motion to the House, because there
never was a period when education was more
appreciated, and the principles on which such a system
should be conducted more thoroughly:understood, than at
the present moment. He complained that the system of
toleration, carried so successfully in England, was not
applied in the same spirit to the clergy and laity
of the Established Church of Ireland. In proof
of this he might quote the sentiments enunciated by the
Noble Lord (Lord. J. Russell), the Right Hon. Baronet
the Member for Tamworth, and Lord al orpeth, whose
Christian character endowed their opinion with consi-
derable weight. The Hon. Gentleman then said that
addresses had been signed by a large number of the pre-
lates and clergy of the Established Church of Ireland,
praying that some modification should be made of the
present national system of education in Ireland. These
addresses were presented in the years 1832 and 1845.
The Hon. Gentleman then said that, if the property of
the Church of Ireland was equally divided between the
clergy of that country it would give only 2001. a year to
each clergyman, and a congregation to each clergyman
of 6,000 persons.—[An Hon. Member—What ?] —He
meant of 600 persons.' Then, again, clergymen were
refused livings because they conscientiously opposed the
national system of education. Was this right? Was it
not using the patronage of Government to promote a
particular system, to which the clergy and a large body
of the country were opposed? What the Protestants of
Ireland asked was, that either schools should be estab-
lished where scriptural education should be afforded to
all, or that a separate branch of the present system
should be made applicable to scriptural education.
They were bound to attend to the demands of 1,600
clergymen 2,000. After s some
concluded by
me f ur
n observations,
o
e
atofa
thbeodyno ofrt. Member
motion with which he commenced his
mthae
address.making s
Sir W. SOMERVILLE, after complimenting the Honour-
Gentleman for the judicious manner in which he had
brought this question before the House, said the real ques-
tion for the consideration of the House was this, was the
national system of education—the mixed system of educa-
tion--which had existed in Ireland for the last fifteen years,
to be changed? Now, considering the present state of Ire-
land, the length of time this system of education existed in
Ireland, and the fact that the prejudices which had prevailed
even on the part of the Protestant clergymen themselves
were fast fading away, he thought the House ought to pause
before they assented to the motion brought forward by his
Honourable Friend. The Right Honourable Gentleman
then proceeded to contend, from facts that were beyond
dispute, that a great body of the Protestant clergymen in
Ireland had given up their hostility to the national system
of education. Mr. Woodward, at a later period, having ex-
amined the matter for himself, stated that the board was
entirely free from the charges brought against it of exclud-
ing scriptural education from the schools. The case of Mr.
Woodward was not a solitary one. Many other clergymen
have declared themselves hi favour of the national system.
He asked them whether, under such circumstances, they
should now abandon the mixed system, and establish one
which would involve a necessity to erect separate schools,
not only for the members of the Established Church, but
for the Roman Catholics, and so cover the country with
schools to perpetuate those differences and exclusiveness
which had so long prevailed in that country. He should op-
pose the motion of his Hon. Friend.
Captain JONES said there was no such thing as united
education, except in those cases where the clergymen of the
Established Church were the patrons. They should either
so modify the rules as to enable the members of the Estab •
lished Church to avail themselves of it, or at once give each
sect a separate grant.
Mr. GROGAN said he had a right to complain that the
English Parliament should coerce the feelings of the Pro-
testant clergy of Ireland upon this subject, and deny them
the privilege of carrying out their principles in educating
the children. The joint system of education was only cur-
rent in the Church Establishment schools. He hoped they
would attend to the temperate appeal made to them by his
Hon. Friend in favour of his motion.
Sir WILLIAM VERNER complained that the Govern-
ment patronage was withheld from those clergymen who
were favourable to the national or present system of educa-
tion. He had himself applied for a friend of his to be ap-
pointed chaplain to the Lord-Lieutenant, and was refused, on
the ground that he was opposed to the national system. The
best system of education in Ireland was that under the Kil-
dare-place Society.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said he knew the Protestant clergy
were opposed to the national system, but that was not shared
in by the Protestant laity, as was shown by the fact that
the number of these schools was greater in the north of Ire-
landnly
a,
tt
e difference
onse
t was
e h
than in other parts of the country. lie knew that the
tShcaritptthueres
Catholicme rereca
occasions, as they objected to read the Scriptures without
note and comment. He should give his cordial support to
the continuance of the existing system.
children idnr en these
were not schools;
oblitgheedo to
Mr. B. OSBORNE regretted that Honourable Members
opposite had not come forward manfully and opposed the
vote on the merits of the question. As the motion stood, it
was opposed to the religious scruples of Roman Catholic pa-
rents, and if carried, it would upset the whole system of
mixed education. The Honourable Member for the Univer-
sity of Dublin had called for a modification of the system,
but it appeared that what he proposed was the abolition of
the present board of education, and the substitution_e of a
system of separate grants for that now in force. H
supplied had
not
denied that Protestant children were already with
as much scriptural education as the greatest stickler for
such education could demand: and,
in truth, as in every
national school, several hours were sat apar
t
stant youths did nfor ot receive
tural reading, if the Prote
The effect of passing the
testant clergy.—(Hear, hear.)
hStecrhooolsl.f
of• -
,religious
strife,
motion would be to revive the embershad
out. Something been said about
instruction in the Bible, it must be the fault of the Pro-
which were now dying
know that the sendtay.
educa-
tion. He happened to
parents to - their chit-
means had been used to induce p.
the excellence of the Kildare-place Society system of
nsideration 5/. down, 55
• a week,
Pa-
rents had received as a ,
owapaistatlruine that hie
and a leg of mutton red
done more than another • to improve
were one thing which had dren to what were caelvleedrythFenKdail:l,.a—re(-Lplaaucge
Stanley, founded as it was on the great
introduced by Lord .
sei the right of private judgment
the state of Ireland it was the mixed system of education
principle of Protestant ,
In connexion with that point he would ask the Hon. Member
) On the subject
the managers of which refused to admit a Roman Catholic,
NfyoarsthaesuUbsncirviebresritio, ofa n
d diDublin,rect whetherdirector
o of,
a ith
even if brought there in extremis, unless he would consent
' Co hear the Scriptures read?—(Hear, hear.