The Sun.
London, England, 1846-01-27 00:00:00

to be placed on it. They ought to propose a plan to be in-
quired into by a Select Committee. The question was too
great to be placed before a Committee composed of a very
small number of the Members of that House. With regard
to the advance of monies to foreign powers for the construe-
tien of works on the Continent—Parliament had not inter-
fered, but had allowed the loans to be granted. It might,
however, be necessary for the interests of the country, that
tome interference should be made with regard to these loans.
He really thought that the case ought to be placed before the
House. If the Right Hon. Gentleman thought it was neces-
sary that there should be a Select Committee on this question,
he would probably state his plan to theta. The Committee
would then make a report to the House, which would then be
better able to form an opinion with respect to this very im-
portant question.
Mr. H. HINDE said he looked upon the business of the
Committee as simply to receive and collect information, and
report it to the House. He should not have addressed the
House had it not been for the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head of the Government. He confessed, that if that
speech was understood out of doors by the public as he (Mr.
H. Hinde) understood it, it would create great alarm. He
understood that nothing was to be done with the view of carry-
ing forward any of the railway Bills till the views of that Com-
mittee had been given. They were to give an opinion that one
class of railways was entitled to receive the favour of the House,
while another class of railways ought not to receive that favour-
able consideration. Now, if the Right Hon. Gentleman had
proposed any thing of this kind at the end of the last session of
Parliament, the objection he (Mr. H. Hinde) had to it would
not have been so great. The projectors of Railways would
then have had notice of the intentions of Government, and would
have acted already. But now, when these projectors had com-
plied with the standing orders imposed upon them last session,
had made their surveys, had gone to great expense in engine, r-
ing matters, and bad paid up their deposits, he thought it was
not treating them as they ought to be treated by being sub-
jected to the course recommended by the Right Honourable
Baronet. Those standing orders having been complied with,
Parliament ought to be prepared to hear evidence in support
of each scheme—they ought not to be disposed of without each
individual project having had the case submitted to a compe-
tent tribunal.—(Hear, hear.) He conceived it would occasion
great inconvenience if railway Bills were to be treated in the
manner recommended. But, in objecting to this course, he
would say that in submitting these schemes to Parliamen-
tary Committees, they, the Members of such Com-
mittees, should evince the greatest strictness in the
reception of evidence—not to be merely satisfied with
witnesses showing a large amount of traffic, but that
the schemes submitted in all respects were necessary
and desirable. In dealing in detail with so large a number of
schemes he confessed there was great difficulty ; still, if the
standing order of Committees manifested sufficient strictness,
and the Parliamentary Committees were careful and rigid in
their reception of evidence, the business in the ordinary way,
as acted upon last session, would be easily disposed of. The
number of railways before the Standing Orders Committee
would not greatly exceed that of last session ; but if it did, if
they went to work at the commencement of the session, and
not delay it as they had done last year, they would get through
it in good time. Last year the session ; was very much ad-
vanced before the Committees commenced to sit, and then,
while many Members sat a long time on certain Committees,
other Members never sat at all ; and be was of opinion many
more Committees might have been formed so as to facilitate
the business. There was another point of the Right
Honourable Gentleman's speech to which he would refer—.
that the restricting of the number of projects would he
a good rather than an evil. He (Mr. H. Hinde) was of opi-
nion, that throwing difficulties such as those named in the way
of investigating the various railway schemes submitted to Par-
liament would be a great evil. If the projectors of railways,
and those who subscribed to them, had difficulties thrown in
their way in the expediting these schemes, it would cause the
capital that would be expended in them to go out of the country.
It would surely be a great evil that a large sum which was pro-
posed to be expended on railways should be sent abroad ; and
that such would be the evident result, if the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet's counsel in the construction of the Committee was taken,
he was firmly persuaded. He should rather that some person
of greater experience than himself had taken up the view of the
question ; but in the sentiments he had expressed he via. sure
he but echoed the opinions that were prevalent out of doors.
Mr. P. M. STEWA B. T wished to call the attention of the
Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Government
to the experience that had been acquired by the apelication
of the system of Committees last session. He (Mr. Stewart)
quite agreed that some interference was necessary in their
mode of conducting the business so as to facilitate its transac-
tion, but he would remind them, thut in devising measures
for the dispatch of business, they should give no unfair hin-
drance to Bills presented to that House on the faith of the
standing orders of last session. Last year it was the 20th or
=lst of April before a single railway Committee sat, and then,
from the number of Bills that were to be investigated, with all
their dispatch they could not get through the business ; but
now, he was persuaded, whatever increase of business there
was beyond that of last year, if they applied themselves to it,
they would get through with it in much better time than they
did then. He said this in order that the Right Hon.
Baronet's Committee might not report to the House from
time to time, and thus delay the commencement of the
business ; and witk the hope that if the Government
had any plans to submit to the Committee they would do so at
once, that they might decide and report so as they, who were
interested in railway Bills, would know what course was to be
taken. It was strange, that if a new mode of carrying forward
the private business was necessary, that some course had no•.
been taken last year, so as to meet the case fully. Nor must
they expect now that any plan agreed on was merely to apply
to this year, and that then the railway business of the country
would be at an end. They were mush mistaken, if they
thought that 600 Bills would exhaust all the railway business
of the country, and that any plan agreed to this session, would
not be required hereafter. Look at the state of the country ?
Railroads were supplanting turnpikes everywhere. There
were twenty thousand miles of turnpike-road in England
and Wales, and he was persuaded that wherever there was
a turnpike, a railroad would be constructed in its stead.
From this they might expect every session a large amount of
railway business, and they should devise some permanent
mode of disposing of this businesss so calculated to increase
the national power, and to develope the national wealth. The
Right Hon. Baronet in the course of his observations, had ex-
pressed an opinion as to the amount of wealth it was expedient
annually to expend on railways, and he had set it down at
e 0,000,0001. He (Mr. Stewart) considered this estimate not
enough. He was of opinion that from the fast increasing power
a the nation, and its continually growing wealth, it was in
a position to extend at least 50,000,0001. annually. The
Right Hon. Baronet had admitted that it would be much
better that that capital was invested in the heart and bowels of
their own country than expended in foreign schemes.—( Hear,
hear.) He had great doubts if any new plan they
could lay down would at all facilitate the business. If
the Committee proposed to be appointed was to linger
over its business, and in the present time nothing was done to
forward the Bills before the House, great evil would result,
and it would be March or April before anything was done. He
approved of the appointment of the Committee, but he doubted
that the Committee, like that of last year, would materially
interfere with the commencement of business, and, like the
exertions of the Board of Trade, add nothing to its proper exe-
cution. He entreated the Right Hon. Baronet to urge for-
ward the dispatch of business, and facilitate by every means in
his power those railway Bills for which petitions had been pre-
sented to that House.

Mr. PLUMPTRE said his object in rising was to take no-
tice of the proceedings which characterised the depositing of
the railway plans at the Board of Trade. It happenett that
the 30th of November was on a Sunday, and on that day a
general deposit of the plans had taken place. If it was in the
power of the Board of Trade to have put off the depositions of
the plans to the following day, they ought to have done so ; and
if they had not, it would be satisfactory for the public to know
that great complaints have been made.
Mr. RICARDO regretted very much that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had not answered the objections of the Noble Lord
( Lord J. Russell) to the proposed measure. It was hard that
a number of persons interested in railway Bills, who had com-
plied with all the conditions of last session, who had fully met
the provisions of the standing orders, should be placed in the
same position as those whs had not. The Right Hon. Baronet
should have made known the plan at the close of last session,
and then he (Mr. Ricardo) having bad that Information, should
not have employed, in those companies with which he was con-
nected, engineers at great expense ; he would have said, never
mind tunnels nor viaducts, but merely draw the line straight—
leaving out of calculation hills and -valleys, ansi all estimate of
expense or capabili'ies of the line. The Right Hon. Baronet
said he had got a large map of the various railways projected
which would be submitted, and if they appointed
a Committee they (the Commissioners who had fully
complied with the standing • orders) would only stand
a chance of being picked -out of the map with those compa-
nies that had not been able to comply. The consequence
would be, that this year they would not be able to go forward
with these Bills, and next year they would be placed in the
same position as the companies that this year had neither de-
posited plans or made deposits.—( Hear, hear.) He considered
this unfair, and the whole measure a clumsy contrivance to
meet the difficulty. He regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet
should, at the eleventh hour, propose his plan, but rather that
he had come down to the-House and told them what to do. It
would have saved the paying engineers for working night and
day, and going to other great-expenses, in order to comply with
the standing orders. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet
would reconsider the matter, and tell them what he meant to
recommend to the Committee, in order that the country might
know what they were to expect.—( Hear, hear.) •
Ihe Earl of LINCOLN said that it appeared that the
Honourable Gentleman the Member for Nottingham, supposed
that the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government
intended that the Committee which he had proposed should
simply perform those duties which had beee performed by the
Board of Trade during the last .year, viz.: —that they should take
into consideration the various competing lines, and recommend
to the House such lines as they deemed the best for the dis-
tricts of country proposed to be passed through. But the in-
tentions were not such as had been assumed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman. The proceedings of last year would be no guide
whatever with regard to the selection of lines ; the Committee
would show to the House the lines which had already been com-
pleted, the lines which had been sanctioned by Parliament,
the lines not yet completed, and those which were contemplated
dilarri,n,:fetthe present year. The intentions of the Right Hon.
once the in proposing the Select Committee, were to show at,
that the, mum
exact state of railway matters, and it was anticipated
proposed would give satisfaction tisfaction to all persons
connected with rail
also proposed, should The Committee, it was
ayeledler what amount of money it was
considered advisable to suffer be expended in the formation
of railways. He thought thatt?ttbwould be unfair in any way
to prejudice their decision
remarksthere
yedushood
be
head. It was thought right thayt soumPoenseduc-
tion upon the capital to lie expendett.aid, ,g the present year
his Noble Friend
in the makinge of railways. It was
the Member for the C.ty of London, that by
virornuledl.e most de-
sirable that the Government should express ,o
Mon as to what the amount of capital should be. ecided
Heopi-
was stare
that his Noble Friend would give the Government the credit
of having given this subject, as welt as all other subjects which
mutt come under discussion, their most serious consideration.
He believed that many Members of the House were of opinion
some limitation should be placed upon the expenditure of
thesurplus capital of the country. The Hon. Gen leman who
that 0
had list addressed the House had stated '0 000,00 1., and
even a much larger sum than that, should be sanctioned by
Parliament for the purposes of new railways. That point
.
would, of course, be a very proper subject for the consideration
of the Committee proposid to be appuinted, but he thought
that the Hon. Gentleman ought to consider the large increase
in the demand of money for the other great interests and in-
stitutions of the country—(Hear, hear)—and it could net,
therefore, be expected that the Government would be inclined
to sanction the expenditure of the large sum proposed
for the formation of railways. With respect to what had
fallen from certain Hon. Members, concerning the advisability ,
of
wererel:P"lg the payment of deposits before Railway Bills
were various to pass through the Standing Orders. There
It would be "asonswhy
that course should not be adopted.
impossible for the proposed Committee to ascer-
tain the ,numhepursoifnßt which it would be advisable for the
Legislature to
posits was, in his opi:iorostitileeThe subject of payment of de-
w4iich might very properly be
left to the consideration of
and
Committee. lie could,
however, assure the Noble Lord,
itall (those who had spoken
in the course of the debate, that"was
important not the intention of
matter to
Government to confide the whole of
vra.s the deter-
mination of the Government to
the decision of -the proposed Committee.
give the subject its most at-
tentive consideration.--(Hear, hear.) s