The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-21 00:00:00

There was in these days a great deal of talk about the eery
and the duties of property. He said it was the duty of e
_rise
man to maultaini himself in the paition in which
sio 'oei.,
placed. The man of property ought to defend bi
al) ate
i ion.—( Laughter.) Hots. Members were perhaps not
the
that the most popular works issued in England withl '.,,,
f Low
last twelve months—he did not mean the writings 0 ....ono
Blaec, but English works—works promulgating opa,'.be
which w ere widely entertained by the most intelligent 01 the
which Prop Dot
wosking men -laid down the proposition that all i',.:-cruot
was a public robbery.—(oh, oh, and No, no.) He "latould
remember the exact words, nor did he expect that he scold
have been called upon to prove his position, but hi sod
refer them to a work in French.—(lronical cheers ~,,t
laughter.) He understood the cheers, but he asserted.s`LA
the same principle was contained in English
here also it was held that property was a public robber. The
Hon. Gentleman, after adverting te several objections;t.".,ll
opposed the extension of reform, on the ground that it v:4,
cause a number of Members to be sent into the Houvsei;.."Of
instead of taking a rational and comprehensive ;"rat
works, ~,ii.e
affairs, would be absorbed by petty local matters, and sod
down the taxation at the expense of the charoterwbole
greatness of the country. He repeated that the
„f the
a
object of the movement was to divide the propertY ,":'eo of
country. The ideas of advantage from the m House, of
these political theories were mere delusions. No id oreba
Commons—no Legislature—do what it might, could t
vent distress among the people; and to tell them._iog
do,
Legisiation had any power to relieve them was a aro sah
fusion. It was a delusion to tell the people that anY`(ob,
but money was the lot of the great mass of mankinda.le of
oh.) There was ,at present running through the wrlety.,
Europe a strong desire for a total 'regeneration of -u`'
He would say in conclusion, you shall have that regenera.thiT;
but you must first pass through a baptism of blood—as _top
are now doing in France—and you never shall have rege"
tion until lie comes who is alone able to give it. ,1 00
Lord J. RUSSELL—I rise thus early to address the A' e
of
because I think it is entitled to an explanation from me
the views I entertain, not only regarding this nnotion,h'b,
other propositions to which it is nearly akin, 50 w ,
after the speech of the Hon. Member for Montrose, ei°l3os.
jecture are like to follow it (as we understood). But ad to
me to allude to the petitions which have been presenteaod
this House, and to what the Hon. Member for Montrose
~_,.,,,,
the expression of a general opinion on the subject. fLo'rytio
that I have to say that it does not appear that, except .., or
provisions called the People's Charter, there was any fare the
numerously signed petition presented to this House Mild,
early part of the session. Regarding those since preseufro,
and regarding those meetings which have been held t 0 951.0
port the motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose, there ot
two remarkable circumstances—one is, that considorii; 0
pains were taken to misrepresent a speech which I made 04,
weeks ago—( Hear)—when notice of that motion was p°-0:1
poned by the Hon. Member, to the effect that I dec'; it
therein that the people wished for no reform. I have 1.703.
done with such care that in placards all the words which
plied my belief that there ought to be reform were car,„ited•
expunged, and in some cases directly the reverse s"'aed
The words I used were—" My belief is that the middle ro,
working classes desire that there should be a gradue:lPo to
gress of reform ; that this House should give its attentio dr.the question before it, and that on peace and tranquilitit do
pond their interests.—(Cries of "Read on.") Of course .`_;t4
not deny that which has been stated over and over ag";he
that I expressed my belief that the country, namely, jot
middle and working classes, were not in favour of the Po:tat
Charter, or the plan of the Hon. Member for Montrose; ,loa
that declaration has been used as if it were a declaralia
against all reform ; whereas I went on to say, after 1111_11a
excluded these specific measures, that the people desire;,
gradual progress in reform, and in using that term
eluded no species of reform, neither parliamentary nor
flo. to
nor any other kind of reform which it might be us! or
adopt. But so great has been the misunderstandinto
misconstruction a what I said, that at the Milletiota
meeting the Hon. Member for Montrose moved a reso nvia
which began thus:—" That the Prime Minister,, harper
stated his opinion that the people require no extensiceived,'
sures of political and fiscal reform, it is hereby res°l oid,
and so on. The Hon. Gentleman having heard whet have
and accurately knowing what I said, really should iota
taken more pains. When that resolution was Rot co'
his hand, he should have said, " This is a resolutio,u i,or
trary to the fact ; I know it to be so—(Hear)--it is '"3`
sible for me to move it as it stands." t/l• h 6
Mr. HUME.—I can only say, it is consistent ii't
fact, to my knowledge.—(Order, order.) tore
Lord J. RUSSELL.—Now there is another circuit's, fo.
which has attended many of these meetings for Pelt, *
They have been meetings convened and assembled
ensued
view of proposing and supporting the four points 03,7,004
in this resolution which the Hon. Gentleman hese h.— and
to-day, and to which he has now added a i 4
with is
with the view of sending petition to this s°" cone
support of this resolution. But when the matter that
to a discussion it has repeatedly happened either
that
some Chartist has risen and moved an amendrneutt_tiabt
every person of Lull age and unconvicted of any crimeJ(3, 0
to have a vote, and that that resolution has been carrc!i.4ioa
else that, such, a resolution being proposed, such A diersilf
in the meeting took place that the reporters, who ,ge1;0 et's°
attend accurately to these matters, have been unable ._„(1 to
the result of the meeting. I say, therefore, with rege`;reat
this movement, that, in the first place, it has been in,,fifctel
degree founded,upon misrepresentation of what I said oot le
place in Parliament ; and, in the next place, that it is lioe•
be considered at all as a movement in support of the Dods
Getleman the Member for Montrose—whether we take elle
or Birmingham, or Merylebone, as I think, or sever";ouleat
of the great cities. It is to be regarded rather as a ru,°' char'
in which there was a division of opinion, in which the ad the
tists very often had the majority ; and where theY "0"bto to
majority the meetings cannot be considered as favour
the plan of the Honourable Gentleman. The H°T)„,e.a II
Gentleman, to my great satisfaction, be gars his iP`loollt
declaring that the plan of reform which I had the by par'
to propose in 1831, and which was carried into effecteerviq
liament in 1832, had been mainly instrumental in Pr 1 accelo
the peace of the country during the present year. Aforra ,11
that testimony as a testimony that the plan of r--uilhtl;
been useful in averting discontent, preserving ter-, hot;
and in bringing about other useful measures.—( if
if t".;
The Hon. Gentleman, indeed, afterwards said. '','"„, e11°,,;
people. according to their present rights of elec_,t'";--o' dud wf
those who would fitly represent them, if they ''"',„Deans °'
their own interests as they ought, they had the ". of the
carrying into effect measures conducive to the interest aS
community. If that be so, it must make the House
Of Pfortu ta°
to the necessity for any Government measurienet-hireel.!oetril
enable the people to find a fair representation
Bcause, by the Hon. Gentleman's own statement, it 'root
from their mistake of their true interests that the Pre the
House does not fairly represent them, and that they ''..5 ated•
opportunity at a general election of being
The electors, indeed, might reply to the 11°' (11 in °
that they had the power, but did not choose to use 1
y.
..., ,of
manner he recommended, for that they bad a better 17_4
their true interests than he himself had--(Hear' hear)n. te
that they had chosen their present representatives, thi.r,i_LZ
that their views were the sound views according to thei.rs,
fairly re risen
notions of public policy, and not, the views which the fir
Gentleman entertained. For, although he may contend
any particalar right of suffrage, he cannot contend, whi,, 10
right he may establish, that the people are to adopt a,.
notions, and that they are not fairly represented if the.reol'iy.
sentatives do not coincide with his views and oniM° 604
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman began by a declaraie
that every man who was a contributor to the taxes in had
way should have a share in the representation, and that ' bod
man of full age who contributed in any way to the taltes.to
positively a right to vote. Why, Sir, if this pronosi the
were tree there would be an end of all dispute &boat bis
matter—an end of the Hon. Gentleman's propositiont ,ald
limitations, his restrictions, his qualifications—and we IL',-,/a
have nothing to do but pass an Act of Parliament ack°,l-00•
ledging that right, and admitting all to vote. But the i'"„to
Gentleman in his plan does not carry his proposition l'io
effect.—( H. e‘maari
ls.it)ahkoHeu iesahrhoedimd
feerrdosym, isi
the
hit
stoeoeexixi
wordtlelanhdai, thet la.
oi
h,
all"
he franchise
henasai:p
gverob e es
g° t
ot;
lteoftinocultudbey
fiinxteedndretshiedewnoered,
a'n'
dhowuhseohomldaeyrsb"e
lod
as I understand, who must claim to gbeeerursdaetienPdet,hein,bdourlaseeluti9ebill7:f
actually rated, and placed
which, if the Hon. Gentlemanli'llsne,
the poor. There is a restriction
tion, you have not the smallest rate-book for the dines,
ae
re; -0
right in his.m
__e......(
01
hear.) '
Here is a man of full title to i uo ,4,
a qualificatifoenr,m
that lie is not registered, and
Westminster • he
. , claims his right to vote. Are Y° rate'
ahgies,hbaernloengiisn.ghottoPothnetpbu2o_,t
book, and therefore he cannot be admitted? " ""; Y4t, °
says, " I have
years of
ait cieonimstipetusteijobnleal r.g to
being a man 21 forte ~tiots
andby anyreg i pretencestrati
en ,Theaonfd
...
_.ye
conditions
i tiqualificationsonsclaim ith
deny that right, or set aside or evade my
Gentlemanof l
that clua'. go'
(Hear, hear.) l-1
destroys his own proposition. I will confess that theirs the
dghinyg,absonudt
soraftirirfitcah.tio.,o
Gentleman quoted some sentences of mine in bringing 00°'
Reform Bill in 1831, which, I must admit, were sou's, the
loosely quoted. They could not have been aPPlir:aeat„°,fli
foundation of the measure I proposed ; but at least ',„aee st",„",
to state exactly what the measure was. 1 did not i„--nositi_dv-
doubt about it, and every one can judge what the P,rryto 171°"-;§
was which I wished to see Parliament adopt. ,'„,; it )
Gentleman's proposition is of a very different IT''''r beard
of a very vague and indefinite character.—( an
°it
When the Hon. Gentleman says that all household -do 13°,1i
lodgers who claim to be rated are to vote, I res.lois 1;,..,a
understand how large a part of the working chose' forre'"
Include. Many sons living with their fathers, or
the . or
part of a family, might or might not form part of rt., ois:
stituent body under this proposition. He says ther
...'d tbs'
millions of persons of full age who ought to vote, e'rl, repro'
only one million or less are included in the pre'eP, oell
sentation. But I should imagine, if his propositiowitaeO,
carried out, and every man had a right to vote,
~. to 41'
being registered and rated. you would find still sorn:yotiog:
three millions at least excluded from the right Of 00°
who would not come under the definition the P°234sertieii;
Gentleman has made. What, then, becomes of 11,_15, --f„ /00°,4
that you have disqualified those who have the right ",.%cluu
and that it is beyond the power of Parliament wel plat
those who have that constitutional right ?—( Hear.). of II
entirely from the Hon. Gentleman as to the foundation ,
proposed representation. In my opinion, that '01e033 the
proposed
people have the right to, not only every man of full go;oble
the whole population of this kingdom, is the best Pb it
government and the best kind of representation wed if 1
possible for the Legislature to give.—(Hear, hear.) MO°
should be that universal suffrage would give the bestao aot
lature, the best laws, and the best governments 1 clsi. ilia'
see that this House would be justified in refusing the $ ow'
But if this would not give so good a government as fel°
ferent form of voting, then it was mere pedantry end.B • I°C
philosophy to say that every man ought to have a v°ll our
the main object of representation, as the main object d the
institutions, being good government and the welfare -Oen
people, you ought not, for the sake of some abstract oßoogat
about the means, to lose sight of the very object Yr,°°cooStrt
to keep in view.— ( 0 d
Hear, hear.) We have a mixed fOl
tution—the Crown and the House of Lords are a part ..ft
constitution • they are not evils to be endured, but of die
the benefit Of the institutions which we enjoy. Cme,Paeitt;
greatest and one of the most profound writers of en-iaar
in writing on the subject of government, said, not rot to
exactly in words, but in sentiment, what I En a tirelff'
quote.—" Every government is formed, either of tuml_ct and
of aristocracy, or of democracy. A government forme but i
combined out of the three may be easily
cannot be easily brought to pass; or,if it shall be brouf.Of a
imagined, ",,t to
pass it cannot be durable." Such was the sentimien,, said
great and profound historian—a sentiment authorise:lwo
justified by all the experience of the world in modern Striate
with the exception of one, and I should sayaa F9.OFf9 have
country. It has so happened that in this-efeWatfilordb,
had these elements combined which Tacitusisaid said • • and
be combined—of monarchy, aristocracy, and depilicrtio&hot
it has happened that that constitution has ,:kiella. t° r
Sir, I confess that, seeing how difficult it i.S.;-01q.', are
that judgment, and which I believe to be Teri *sr. :;Biog
judgment, with the exception which we have seene-.stia
how difficult it is to maintain that species of mixed e 'Male
tution which has provided for the happiness
in this country—l have always felt, having hedfrofarin;
of the to
do since the year 1819 with proposing measures 01
how Ray
criti,,c9;
and with assisting other measures of reform, -°' u.aa the
and nice a matter it was to alter in .401.:Y -oat. '
adjustment of the different powers of the eonstitu......so
remember, on the night before I was about to brinZ 1"7