The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT•

ROUSE OF COMMONS, June 7.

GAME CERTIFICATES FOR KILLING HARES

BILL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. ELLIOT moved that after the word " certificate,"
in the third clause, the following words be added: " ex-
cepting the proprietors of the said greyhounds, beagles,
or other hounds," which amendment would have the
effect of compelling persons who kept hounds of their
own, for a day's sport occasionally, to pay the tax.
After a short discussion, the HON. MEMBER consented
to withdraw his amendment.
Sir W. JOLTAFFE moved that after the word "de-
scription," in clause 4, the words " by night " be added,
and also at the end of clause 6 that the following words
be added : " and the word night' shall be considered
and is hereby declared to commence at the expiration
of the first hour after suns:fit, and to conclude at the
beginning of the last hour Wore sunrise." He said the
object of his amendment was to prevent the use of fire-
arms at night, which had been attended with the most
serious consequences.

The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority —6o
The other clauses were then agreed to.
On the motion that the Bill be engrossed,
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said he believed he was at li-
berty to move that the Bill be engrossed that day six
months.—(Laughter.) He had great objections to the
measure, and he thought it was to Le regretted that so
much of the time of the House had been wasted upon a
matter of so little import.
Colonel SIBTHORP said he should oppose the Bill
altogether on the third reading.
After a desultory discussion upon the general merits
of the Bill, the House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
The Bill was then ordered to be engrossed.
The House resumed and agai❑ resolved itself into
Committee upon the
GAME CERTIFICATES (SCOTLAND) BILL.

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Mr. G. BERKELEY moved the insertion of a clause,
for the purpose of enabling the police to take into custody
suspicious persons, who had game in their possession.
The clause was rejected without a division.
The HON. MEMBER. then moved the insertion of a
clause, specifying the periods when it was legal, and
when illegal, to sell game.
This clause was also rejected by the House without a
division.

The preamble of the Bill was then agreed to, and the
report ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
SCHOOLMASTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Mr. B. COCEIRANE said, as he understood a num-
ber of Scotch Members were opposed to this Bill, he
would consent to withdraw it.

The Bill wai accordingly withdrawn.
PLACES 02 WORSHIP SITES (SCOTLAND)

BILL.
On the motion being put for going into Committee
on this Bill
Mr. COC,IIRA.TE' moved an amendment that the Bill
be read that day six months. He said there were no
real substantial grounds for the measure, because it was
a positive fact that the number of sites which had been
refused for churches belonging to the Free Church was
only twenty-nine, while as many as 600 sites had been
granted. The Free Church distinctly avowed that its
intention was to overthrow the Esta4lished Church of
Scotland, arid it now allzed the House to
compel parties who conscientiuusly differed from its
tenets to give land for churches, a proceeding which
would have the effect of creating dissension and misery
in the different parishes. He wished to show no dis-
respect to the Presbyterians of Scotland, but he repro-
bated the conduct of the Free Church adherents, who
on every public occasion endeavoured to excite dis-
sension among the people, and he concluded by ex-
pressing his sincere wish that the House would throw
out the measure.

Mr. F. MALLE, in reference to an article which the
Hon. Memher had read in the course of his speech
from the Witness newspaper, distinctly denied that that
paper was the organ of the Free Church, although it
was edited by a member of that body. He said the
llon. Gentleman, was entirely ignorant of the real
grounds which existed in Scotland for the measure, and
he could assure the House that no body of persons were
more attentive to the law, and more anxious to dissemi-
nate religious knowledge, and to establish the prin-
ciple of good order, than were the members of the Free
Church. If they w« nt into a discussion of the question
he hoped they would not be led to do so in any tone of
irritation, but discuss it in the same rational and tem-
perate manner which attended the consideration of the
matter upon a previous occasion. 4,110u1d the House pass
the measure, they would confer upon the country a
great benefit ; but, if they rejected it, a number of
grievances affecting that large body would be suffered
to remain.

Lord DRUMIateNRIG said he was prepared to give
his support to this Bill.
Mr. al. MILNES said the Bill would have the effect
of introducing a principle of a perfectly novel character
into their legislation. Looking at the immense amount
of influence which Dissenters in this country possessed, i
he dM not consider the House was justified in giving
such a right to one religious body in Scotland without
conferring the same rigbt upon the different religious
bodies in England. The Wesleyans were at one time as
much, if not more persecuted than the Free Church,
but they eventually overcame all difficulties, and now
maintained a position which they still continued to hold.
Mr. OSWALD objected to the measure, which he said
had the effect of applying a national remedy to evils of
a local and temporary nature.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM regretted to be again called
upon to enter into a discussion upon this important
subject, but he could not express his views upon the
meaits of this Bill without expressing much sorrow
that his lion. Friend the Member for Bridport should
have felt himself at liberty to mix up the
character of eminent Scottish divines with this
distressing question. For his own part, he knew from
exiperience that two of these distinguished divines were
as remarkable for their Christian feelings land forbear-
ance as for their piety and learning, and he therefore
regretted that his Hon. Friend should have felt it ne-
cessary to impugn the motives which had induced them
to take the part of the Free Church. Leaving that part
of the subject, he was anxious to enter upon
the discussion of the general question in a con-
ciliatory spirit, and without reference to the feelings
whits had actuated the proceedings of one party or
the other. Now he doubted very much whether the
adverse spirit towards the Free Church was so very
general in Scotland as some Hon. Members seemed to
imagine. Indeed landholders generally, both in Scot-
land and Ireland, were anxious that places of worship
should be established on their estates. In Ireland there
certainly was no difficulty in obtaining sites for that pur-
pose, and he much doubted whether obstacles in Scotland
were so great as had been represented, for, if he were
not mistaken, within the last five years 725 churches
had been built for this very Free Church.—(Hear,
hear.) The Right Hon. the Secretary at War had di-
rected the attention of the House to the fact, that the
Duke of Buccleuch had refused to grant sites upon
his property. Now, he had long been on terms of
private friendship with that nobleman, while he had
more than once been politically associated with him, and
he coald assure the House that a better or more worthy
man did not exist. Anything he could say upon that
point would fall far short of the benevolent cha-
racter which the meanest peasant on his estate would
give him ; but man was but man after all, and
an isolated act of one individual could not be a sufficient
justification for the passing of a measure like this. But
be denied that the Duke of Buccleuch had been guilty
of the oppression that had been laid to his charge;
and he denied most positively that a case had been
made out for resorting to legislation upon this sub-
ject. He would not, however, pretend to deny that
it might be far different in individual instances
of oppression, but then he maintained that such
cases ought to be brought separately before the
Legislature, and if it were only upon that ground
alone he must object to the passing of this
general measure, resting as it did upon a general princi-
ple and applicable to all parts of the United Kingdom.—
(Hear, hear.) On the whole he thought it much better
to leave this matter to be settled amongst the parties
themselves than by resorting, to legislation, and he must
be allowed to tender that opinion as his excuse for op-
posing the further progress of the Bill.
Mr. SCOTT said he was opposed to the principle of
the Bill, but if the House determined on carrying it into
Committee, he should support the amendment of the Hon.
blember for Rexhurghshire. The lion. Member then
proceeded at some length to defend the conduct of the
Duke of Buceleuch, and contended that in the two cases
where his Grace had refused to grant sites he was per-
fectly justified in doing so. He was, however,
in a position to state, that had this Bill never
been brought forward, not only in those two cases,
but in every case where a refusal had been met with,
Pie sites would long ago have been granted, and the
animosities which had so long divided the two
parties would have been very greatly reduced.
The Hon. Member, then proceeded to defend the Duke
of Buccleuch against the charges that had been made
against him of turning off his estates several tenants be-
cause they belonged to the Free Church, and concluded
by stating his intention to oppose the further proceeding
frith the Bill.
Mr. HUME supported the Bill, because he thought it
would be productive of peace and good will in Scotland.
He was as adverse as any one to the interference with
private property, but he thought it necessary to legislate
upon the subject.
Mr. R. SPOONER objected to the further progress
of the Bill, although he had voted for its second
reading.
°After some observations from Mr. MACKENZIE,
Mr. CHRISTOPHER thought they ought not to go
to a division upon this Bill without hearing what course
the Government intended to pursue with respect to the
811. - . . -

Sir G. GREY said he should vote against the amend-
ment of the Hon. Member for Bridport and for the mo-
tion of the Hon. Member for Roxburghshire, for reasons
which he should state when the House went into
Com-
mittee on the Bill.
The House then divided, when there appeared_
For going into Committee B4
Against it 59
Majority for going into Committee —25
The House then went into Committee pro forraz on
the Bill.
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, sncl obtained
leave to sit again.
The House then resumed.