The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-26 00:00:00

THE SUN,

respect to the colonies, however, when the Noble Lord
said that protection was necessary to the colonies, he
would take leave to observe that on that point the Noble
Lord was entirely at issue with the colonists themselves.
When the Noble Lord also said that the Government
had changed their views upon this subject, he must beg
to say that he thought he had brought forward that
charge without sufficient evidence. Lord Clarendon had
merely informed the deputations to which the Noble
Lord alluded, that it was not intended to propose a
change to Parliament during the last session. His pledge
did nut in any wig affect the course to be taken at a fu-
ture period. Then the Noble Lord had referred to
certain correspondence published in America. Now, if
that correspondence was rightly read, it would
resolve itself into a general expression to the
American Minister, to the effect that the
Government believed a mutual arrangement with
regard to shipping would be of benefit to
both countries. That was not a statement which ought
to subject them to the Noble Lord's censure. But then
the Noble Lord complained of the mode in which a Com-
mittee appointed in the other House upon this subject
had been selected, and the way in which their inquiries
had been conducted. Now he must say that he did not
think it a convenient course to di:cuss in that House
how the House of Commons conducted an inquiry. For
his own part, he must say that he believed the inquiry
in the Commons had been conducted with strict justice,
and with the most scrupulous care.—(Oh.) It always
happened on inquiries of such a sort, that more witnesses
were examined upon one side than upon the other, and
nothing could be fairer than the whole arrangements
respecting the examinations in the case to which he
alluded. Another point on which he must say a word,
was the charge made against Mr. Porter, whom the
Noble Lord had declared to have made a statement
which he said to be " false."—(Loud cries of " Hear,
hear.") Now what did that charge of falsehood resolve
itself into? Nothing else than an erroneous deduction.
Mr. Porter's figures were all correct; but he took a view
of them in which the Noble Lord did not agree. He
had only to add that he was perfectly willing the Com-
mittee should he appointed, and that he was very sanguine
indeed in his anticipations that the result would be to
afford strong evidence in favour of the measure proposed
hereafter to be submitted.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH expressed his gra-
tification that her Majesty's Government did not object
to the Committee. When the Noble Lord, however,
said that the present law had been very injurious to the
mercantile navy of the country, he was led to infer the
measure the Government would propose would be cal-
culated greatly to improve that law. If such were the
case, he trusted the House would consider no Bill that
had not for its object greatly to increase the trade and
the importance of our mercantile marine.—(Hear.) He
should come to its consideration with that principle
firmly fixed in his mind, and determined to give his sup-
port to no other measure whatsoever. With respect to
the colonists he was not surprised that those who looked
merely to the cheapening the carrying trade of the
country were disposed to support an alteration of
the navigation-laws ; but shipowners had to look at
the matter in a different point of view, and it was
the it view that he should be most desirous to consult.
The Noble Lord who brought forward this motion had
referred to returns relating to the amount of tonnage of
different nations. Those returns ho (L )rd Ellenborough)
thought exceedingly fallacious, and he thought it would
be necessary to have very different returns upon this
head. There was also some revision required in the
present state of our lsw with reference to apprentices.
He thought the state of our law at present was calcu-
lated to throw a large number of able-bodied seamen out
of employ, by enforcing the employment of too great a
number of apprentices. lie should be much surprised
if inquiries upon these points did not prove that two-
ninths of the seamen on whom we at present relied were
only apprentices, and a large number of those under 20
yeas sof age. This might be one cause of so large a num-
ber u:' our seamen being at present in the American marine.
If tile return was correct which gave 112,000 as the
nullifier of sailors in American employ, it was shown
that of those 112,000 no less than 100,000 were fo
reigners.—(Hear, hear.) How many of these were
British subjects he could not tell, but of course a very
great proportion, and this was a most formidable con-
sideration. In conclusion, he impressed on their Lord-
ships the great importance of su,taining our mercantile
marine, and said that he felt strongly that should a war
ever again break out with this country it would be
necessary to resort again to impressment. He had
read a number of crotchetty pamphlets urging a regis-
tration of seamen as an efficient measure for manning
the navy; but when he recollected that we should want
in our fleet one half the entire number of our merchant
seamen, he felt sure that nothing but the impressment
of regimen would avail. It must be remembered, more-
over, that our system of warfare, in consequence of the
adoption of steam. was now altered; and that whilst
we carried our attacks into the ports of the enemy, we
must also have a sufficient force to protect ourselves at
home from similar attacks.

The motion waa then agreed to.
Their Lord hips adjourned at twenty minutes past
Seven.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. Feb.2s.

The SPRAYER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
nit; DUBLIN CORPORATION PARMA-

MENTARY FUND.

The order for the second reading of this Bill was
discharged.
LOUGH CORRIB IMPROVEMENT
COMPANY.

This Bill was also read a second time and passed.

LAMBETH WATER-WORKS.

Mr. PEARSON presented two petitions in favour
and one against the Lamb2th Water-works Bill.
.Alderrnan lILIMPHERY presented a petition also
in favour of the Bill.

Sir W. MOLESIVORTII presented a petition in
favour of the Bill.
LANCASTER ELECTION COMMITTEE.

Mr. DEEDES, as Chairman of the Lancaster
Election Committee, reported that Mr. James Dodson
had answered satisfactorily all the questions put to
him, and he therefore moved that he be discharged
out of the custody of the Sergeant-at. Arms without
payment of fees.
Motion agreed to.

the table of the House an account of
the expenditure of the said lean ; also,
whether the 420,0001. of the China money de-
Lined at the Cape, might be taken as a deduction
from the 1,100,000/. expended in carrying on the
Kafir war.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
stated that the whole amount received as the produce
of the loan, had been carried to the Consolidated
Fund. Last year he stated that the advances
to Ireland had been about 10,000,0001. Up
to the present time he found that a sum
of about 9,000,0001. had been advauced in the way
of loan or grant to Ireland. A balance of 1,000,0001.
was, therefore, available for other Irish purposes.
IVith respect to the Iry ter part of the question he
found that the advances from the Commissariat chest
had been so heavy that he had not as yet been
able to draw anything from it. If the vote he
should propose to-night would be granted he
would then be able to draw on the Commissariat for
the amount of the China money, which could be made
available for the put poses of this year.
LOANS (IRELAND).
In answer to a question put by Col. CONOLLY,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
stated that the amount of loans made to Ireland was
4,450,0001., and that the grants amounted to
4,270,000/.

In answer to a question put by Mr. E. DEN •
NISON,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the 1,000,0001. remaining in hand would be avail-
able for carrying out the provisions of several Bills
passed last session for the purpose of granting loans
for the improvement of land, and for the settlement
of some still outstanding accounts in the Commis •
sariat Department.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the House
at its rising was ordered to adjourn till Monday next.
INSURRECTION IN PARIS.

Mr. HINDLET wished to know if the Noble
Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs would have
any objection to state to the House the nature of the
latest information which he had received respecting
the political state of Paris.
Lord PALMERSTON said, amid profound silence,
the latest intelligence which I have received from
Paris is dated half-past 6 o'clock on the evening be-
fore last—(Laughter.) These dispatches inform me 01
the retirement of M. Guizot, and that M.Mole had been
appointed to form a new Government; later than that
I have no official information.— (Laughter.)
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER for the House going into Committee
of Supply for the purpose of taking a vote oi
1,100,0001. for the Kafir war, and 245,410/. 19i. 7d.
for the navy excess,
Mr. HUME said he was sorry that an imperative,
sense of duty called on him to offer an interference with
the service of Government, but he would appeal to the
House, whether, when it was agreed to advanc,
3,700,0001. on account of the army and navy, it was no
distinctly understood that they were not to be called or
to vote any further sum until the Select Committee ha:
been enabled to meet, and to examine and report upou
the expenditure. It was proposed on that occasion to
take a vote on a distinct estimate for the excess in the
navy expenditure of last year, which was pronounced
to be one of the most objectionable votes that could have
been proposed, and when that estimate was withdrawn,
the vote on account was granted under the arrangemen.
to w 11:ch he had referred.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begge(l
ro state to the Hon. Member that he had, on being tole
'hat the vote granted last Monday was only on acconn,
distinctly said that on that understanding he should
brin,s forward the two votes for the navy excess and th.
Katie war on the next supply night.
Mr. lIUME had no doubt whatever, since the High
Hon. Gentleman had asserted it, that the fact was so.
But he objected to any estimates being brought forware
until the House saw how the matter stood with respec
to the expenditure—how far it was necessary to irnpos.
new taxes for the purpose of increasing the establish
merits of the country. His object, therefore, was t,.
pledge the House to grant no additional tax until th,
Committee had reported on the expenditure—(flear,
hear.) In the year 1835 he had protested against th,
additional expenditure which was incurred then.. lb
said on that occasion, the time would come wherethe)
would all be brought up, to use a common expression.
and the time had now arrived. Iu the present state of
commercial and manufacturing depression how could th,
Noble Lord attempt to impose new taxes ? And yet he
spoke of the matter as if he was performing some most
creditable task, and that the people had only to listen to
him to yield, and to pay any tax he pleased to propose.
The Noble Lord stated with great sangfroid, that in the
year 1835 the army numbered 130,000 men, and that in
1847 the numbers hard increased to 138,000, without
telling them why this increase had been made, or offering
any reason for its continuance. The Noble Lord also state,.
that the ordnance had been raised from 8,420 men in
1335 to 14,000 men in 1847. , He was not surprised at
petitions such as had been read in the House being pre-
sented against th• income-tax from Liverpool and
London, or that the people should endeavour to arrest
the Government in their intentions, and stop their ca-
reer of extravagance. It would be a charity to stop th.
Ministry in their downward course.—(Laughter.) The
Noble Lord ought to have furnished the details of the
dockyard battalions, the pensioners, and the polio
force, all of whom were armed, amounting to a ferce of
250,000 men, and actually showing that the Govern
merit hard converted a peaceful commercial community
into a warlike, threatening nation.—(Hear, hear.) He
had hoped to hare heard from the Chancellor at the
beginning of the session that he was prepared to remove
taxes and not to impose new ones. The Government
had been asleep—it was time to awaken theta. It had
been asserted that the revenue had decreased, and that
there must be more taxes imposed to support public
credit. How fallacious that statement was he would
presently show. lie had always; been a strenuous ad-
vocals for maintaining the public credit, by keeping
faith with the creditor, and though he had seen a
prop•sition published with the signature of one of her
Majesty's Privy Councillors attached to it for wiping
oil i 5 per cent. of the National Debt, he never was for
sanctioning such a scheme, and he protested against it
at the time. But the way to maintain public credit was
by reducing the expenditure within the income. And
as the Government was responsible for the imposition of
the taxes, so they ought to be made responsible foe
their expenditure. From the returns of the income and
expenditure between the years 1822 and 1845, it would
seem that the latter was exactly the same in both years.
It certainly did seem extraordinary that, after so many
years of peace, the same amount of expenditure should
be required that was called for during the war. When,
from year to year, the question was put, why is this enor
MOU4 expenditure still kept up, the answer always given,
from 1822-25 to 1823 was, that the state of the continent
was still unsettled, and that France had not settled down
under her monarchy. He had always been opposed tt
interineddling in the affairs of foreign nations, for such
interference had always produced rancour arid 411-will.
—(Hear, hear.) And was it now that, after the
downfal of a dynasty of seventeen years' standing,
England was to bo so foolish as to suppose that het
army had ever tended to settle the differences which
existed amoagat the French people ?—(Hear, hear.)
So far from this, he thought the very contrary effect was
produced; and, if all the accounts he had heard were
correct, it was probable that Louis Philippe would soon
make his appearance in England. He would toll the
Government that it was not in the power of any array to
support a monarch on his throne against the wish of his
people; arid Louis Philippe now found that, after ex-
pending 60,000,0001. or 70,000,000/. on his forts round
Paris, he was not a bit the nearer securing the perma-
nence of his dynasty.— (Hear. hear.) What a lesson
did not the recent events in Paris offer to Governments?
Who were the authors of' what had occurred there ?
The middle classes—the same classes on whose behalf
he now appealed in that House against the impositions
endured by them. Why was it, let him ask, that there
were between 80,000 and 40,000 more men in the army
now than there were in 1833 ? In the year 1822 he
wasted six weeks in trying to reduce the navy
and military estimates, and ho took no less than
from seventy to eighty divisions on thorn. Ho then moved
an address to the Crown, praying that the establish-
ment of the country should be reduced to the standard
of 1792. Mr. Bankes moved an amendment on his
motion, making a very trifling alteration in the words,
and that was carried. The result was, that the estimates
next year wore reduced by 3,000,0001., and the number
of men in the army was lessened by 10,000. He said
now what he then stated, that it was the duty of the
House to compel Ministers to retrace their steps, and to
reduce the army and navy establishments. But the
House and the country had been told, as an excuse, that
the successive additions to the army and navy had been
sanctioned ) ear after year by the House of Commons.
That the fact was so he admitted ; but he attributed it '
to the corresponding fact that the country had not been
represented in the House of Commons. It had likewise
been universally asserted that the revenue had de-
creased. That was not true. During the years 1833, 1834,
and 1835, the revenue had always exceeded the expendi-
ture, and the reason was that the finances were never
better managed than during those years. The amount of
tka revenue, after deducting drawbacks and expenses of
collection was during those three years on an average
50,504,5451. In the year 1846 what was the net amount
of the revenue ? Not less than 57,589,0001., showing
an excess of taxation during the latter period over 1833
of 7,064,0001. He, therefore, protested against any
Minister asserting that the revenue had decreased.
Revenue had not failed, but every increase of receipt
had been met by increase of expenditure. The increase
had been mainly in the navy, and he should be able to
show that in that department one halt' the present ex-
penditure
and one-half the number of ships would be
amply sufficient for all useful purposes. It was on these
grounds that he had brought forward the present mo-
tion—a motion which pledged the house nut only
iegainst, increased expenditure, but also to an immediate
and active course of retrenchment. There were many
points in which a Committee might find room for
retrenchment. There were, for instance, the enormous
brevets, of lute so frequent.—(llear, hear.) But the
items were numerous, and, if properly curtailed, the ne-
cessityforaaenuraitnnaciair g,eased income-tax might be altogether
avoided. By a cheaper mode of collecting the Customs,
genteaa n to
fof s
sinecure
u r e fundedincomes, and
he would unfunded
ribinyeakba better m
debt, by
the estimate of 1846 amply sufficient for all pur-
poses. Among other things the Irish estimates required
revision. In a few years they had increased to the
amount of 1801. per cent., and were principally items
with which the consolidated fund had, properly speak-