The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-24 00:00:00

TilE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, AUGUST 24, 1848.

Mr. URQUHAR I said the grant was an annual protest
in favour of the nationality of Poland, and was haSed on the
highest grounds of justice. It was remarkable that when
the state of Poland was being discussed that the House
treated it with levity. England was much to blaMe for the
f*llen condition of Poland.
Mr. G. THOMPSON said, the reasons in favourof the vote
urged by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last wee the most
extraordinary that could be urged in a British House of
Commons. Forsooth,because the Czar of Russia had tram-
pled upon the nationality of Poland, were they to' upport for
years all whom his tyranny had driven from their native
land? He bore testimony to the merits of the Poles, but con-
sidering the vote altogether indefensible, he should vote
ag *hist it, in the hope that it would be abolished for ever.
Mr. ROBINSON opposed the Bill.
Mr. OSBORNE said if the Chancellor of the Ixchequer
would state that this should be the last vote, he would not
divide the Louse.

Mr. O'CONNOR was opposed to taking the grant away
without notice to the recipients that it would be discontinued.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
that what he had said was that it would not be Well to take
away the grant in a summary manner. He thought that
the old, the helpless, and those who were unable to go back
to their own country should alone receive the grant.
After some further discussion,
Mr. OSBORNE said the explanation of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was perfectly satisfactory; he should not
therefore divide. The vote was therefore agreed to.
On the vote for 6,669/. to defray the miscellaneous allow-
ances of the Civil List not otherwise provided for being pre-
posed,
Mr. C. LUSHINGTON opposed the &glum Don urn part
of this vote on the behalf of the Dissenters of the country, as
derogatory to them, and moved that the vo'e should be re-
duced by the sum of 1,693. the amount of the Regium Donum
part of the vote.
After some discussion, in which Colonel Thompson, Lord
John Russell, Mr. Fox, 'Mr. Kershaw, Mr. George Thompson,
Mr. Bright, Mr. Hume, Mr. Muntz, Mr. Wyld, and Mr.
Sharman Crawford took part,
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took
place.
Mr. REYNOLDS, during the time of our exclusion from
the gallery having rose, moved the exclusion from the esti-
mate of the sum set apart for the French Protestant refugees
1,600 L)
Atter a short discussion, the 'lox. MEMBER for Dublin
withdrew his amendment, and the Committee divided upon
lir. C. Lushington's amendment with respect to the Replan
Donum, when there appeared—
For the vote 6O
For the amendment ..... 28
Majority for the vote
The vote was then agreed to.
The House then resumed,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave
to sit again at a quarter to six o clock.
MILLBANK PRISON BILL.

This Bill was read a third time and passed.
COMBIONS INCLOSURE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

The third reading of this Bill was postponed till after the
other orders of the day were disposed of.
DUBLIN POLICE BILL.
The third reading of this Bill was also postponed until
after the other orders of the day were disposed of.
NUISANCES AND CONTAGIOUS DISEASES BILL.
The report on this Bill was postponed until after the other
orders of the day were disposed of.
FEVER (IRELAND) BILL.
The Committee on this Bill was postponed until after the
Other orders of the day were disposed of.
BANKRUPTS RELEASE BILL.
This Bill went through Committee, and was ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow' at twelve o'clock.
OFFICERS OF COURTS OF JUSTICE (IRELAND)
ASSIMILATION OF APPOINTMENTS BILL.
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the order of the
day for the second reading of this Bill was discharged, the
Noble Lord stating that it would be impossible to proceed
with the measure in the course of the present session.
The House, then, at a Quarter before Four o'clock, ad-
journed to a Quarter before Six o'Clock.

The House resumed at a Quarter to Six o'clock.
PETITIONS.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented a petition from
an Independent congregation in Belfast against the Regium
homon grant.
Mr. DISRAELI presented a petition from the adventurers
and miners of llurlstone against the reduction of the duty
on copper ore.
NOTICE OF MOTION.
Mr. FORSTER gave notice that early next session be
should bring the grand jury system under the consideration
of the House.
RETURNS.—SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. BROTBERTON moved for, and obtained the Mow-
ing returns :—Return of the number of days on which the
House of Commons sat in the session 1847-8, stating for each
day the hour of meeting, and the hour of adjourn-
ment, and the total number of hours occupied in
the sittings of the House, and the average time;
and also showing the number of hours on which
the House sat each 'day, and the number of hours
after midnight; and the number of entries in each day's
votes and proceedings ' • also the total number of
hours the House sat during the session (in continua-
tion of Parliamentary- Paper, No. 746, of Session 1847).
Return of the number of divisions in the session 1847-8;
stating the subject of the division, and the number of Mem-
bers in the majority and minority, tellers included ;
Also, the aggregate number in the House on each
division ; distinguishing, also, the divisions on public Bills
from private ; and, also, the number of divisions before and
after midnight (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper No.
746, of Session 1847). Return of an alphabetical list of the
public Bills which have been introduced into the House
of Commons during the session 1847.8. stating by
whom introduced, or which have been brought from the
House of Lords, the date of their several stages in the
House, and distinguishing those which have since be-
come law (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper,
No. 756, of Session 1847). Return of the total
number of Acts passed in each session since
the year 1800; distinguishing the number of public, private,
and local personal Acts; and the number relating to Great
Britain, England, Scotland, and Ireland, and those relating
to the United Kingdom. Return of the number of
Sdiasc•seor which the House of Commons has sat in each session
n
and theii e
houryea
ofadjournment,
r 180 0, stati n g tor
and aacl(ld a-
the the
totalhour
number (femeeting
o
f
hours occupied in the sittings of llte House, and the average
time; and also showing the number of hours on which the
House sat each day, and the nunibe... of hours after midnight;
and the number J,
entries in each day's votes and proceed-
ings; also the total number of hours the House sat during
each session.

JOHN MITCIIEL.
Mr. ROBINSON gave notice that, on Friday, he would
put a question to the Right Hon. the Secretary of State for
the Home Department relative to the convict Mitchel.
TE MINT
In reply to a question from Sir J. TYRELL,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that
be had every reason to believe that the labours of the Mint
Commission would be brought to a close within a month,
when their report would be ready for delivery.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
In reply to a question from Mr. FORBES,
Lord J. RUSSELL stated that he proposed to take the
Diplomatic Relations with Rome Bill to-morrow, at twelve,
and the Sale of Spirits Bill at five o'clock.
In reply to a question from Lord G. BENTINCK, _
Mr. HAWES said he had no objection to lay on the table
of the House a copy of the resolutions of the Jamaica
Chamber of Commerce.

COLONIAL LIGHTHOUSES.
On the question for going into Committee of Supply,
Mr. HUME rose to call the attention to the state of the
colonial light- houses, and to the shipwrecks in consequence
of the want of some attention to these matters. The Hon.
Member observed that much inconvenience and injury re-
sulted to British subjects abroad, because of the irregular
manner in which the business connected with the superin-
tendence of the colonial light-housei was conducted. British
subjects' when a light-house required to be established or
repaired, did not know where to apply. Some applied to the
Board of Trade, others to the Admiralty, others to the Colo-
nial-office, and others to Trinity-house corporation. The
consequence was, that while they were bandied about from
one department to the other, a lamentable loss of life and
property occasionally occurred. His suggestion was, that the
subject should be referred for inquiry to the Tidal Harbour
Commissioners, who he hoped would supply the House with
such information as would enable it to deal with the question
in a satisfactory manner early next session.
Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that the question was quite
too important to be disposed of in incidental discussion such
as the present. The whole question of the management of
the lights of this country required revision and alteration.
He had himself prepared a Bill, although he had not as yet
had time to introduce it, which would provide a proper
system of management with respect to all lights on the
coast of the United Kingdom. The question of the colo-
nial lights was at present under the consideration of the
Admiralty.--(Hear, hear.)
SUPPLY.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of S 1
Mr. Bernal in the chair. upp.y ;
The Miscellaneous Estimates were resumed.
The first. vote, 3,0001. for the Foundling Hospital, Dublin,
was agreed to.
6,975/. for defraying the expenses of the House of Indus-
try, Dublin.
_ •

1,0001. for the Female Orphan house, Dublin.
➢lr. OSBORNE called attention to the fact that no portion
of the grant was given to Roman Catholics.
Mr. HUME would object to the grant if no portion of it
were given to Roman Catholics.

Colonel SIBTHORP observed on the paper that a sum was
put down for Emily Sibtborp, the matron of an institution,
and he totally disclaimed any knowledge of, or relationship
with that lady.—(Laughter. )
Mr. OSBORNE would suggest to the Honourable and
Gallant Colonel that they had passed the vote to which he
now referred, and which was included in the grant for a
lunatic asylum.—(Laughter,)
Viscount MORPETH considered establishments of an ex-
clusive character objectionable ; but this vote was 'merely
given in aid of a very large contribution which had been
made by Protestant individuals of great benevolence.
Mr. HAMILTON bore testimony to the admirable manner
in which the institution was managed.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE promised that an inquiry should
be made as to the principle on which this institution was
established.

Mr. MUNTZ objected to such a state of things being al-
lowed t. continue, and declared that he would divide the
Committee on the question.
Lord J. RUSSELL remarked that the institution was, to
a great extent, supported by voluntary subscriptions, and it
was not in their power to alter the rules of the institution.
Mr. IiUbIE thought the amount of the grant might be
reduced.

Mr. MUNTZ would not divide the Committee on the
question if the Noble Lord pledged himself to make no grant
next year, except there was an alteration in the manage-
ment of the institution.
Mr. GOULBURN did not think they could attempt to
alter the rules of the institution.
Lord J. RUSSELL would take care :to have the matter
inquired into, and fairly considered.
The vote was agreed to.
2,500/. to defray the expenses of the Westmorland Lock
Hospital, Dublin.
1,0001 for the expenses of the Dublin Lying-in Hospital.
1,5001. to defray the expenses of Dr. Stevens' Hospital.
800/. for the House of Recovery and Fever Hospital,
Cork-street, Dublin.
5001. fur the expenses of the Hospital for Incurables,
Dublin.
27,8371. to complete the sum necessary for defraying the
expenses of the non-conforming, seceding; and Protestant
dissenting ministers in Ireland.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD opposed the vote, with the excep•
tion of 366/., the amount of the grant allowed for the sup-
port of the widows and orphans of ministers of the Synod of
Ulster. He moved, as an amendment, the grant now pro-
posed should be reduced to 3661.
Mr. KEOGH begged to call attention to the case of Mr.
Dill, Presbyterian minister of the Clonmel congregation, who
complained that the portions of the Begium -Docent which

should have been paid to him on the 29th September last,
had not been paid, but had been stopped by the order of Go-
vermrent. He had sent in the necessary certificate, pursuant
to the instructions issued for effecting that object ; but still,
when an explanation was demanded, it was alleged that the
non-issue of the bounty to the minister of Clonmel was attri-
butable to the fact that the certificate did not specify the
number of families belonging to the congregation.; Now, in
the instructions issued to the Presbyterian clergymen the
fOrm of certificate was given ; and on reference to this clergy-
man's certificate, it would be found that he had' complied
with the instructions. It was manifest that if the con-
tinuance of the Regium Danum was made contingent upon
complying with the orders from the Castle, there was an end
to the independence of the Presbyterian ministers. In con-
clusion, be repeated that in this instance all the rules had
been observed, and, under these circumstances, he 'wished to
know upon what principle the bounty had been withheld ?
Mr. OSBORNE said he had the pleasure of knowing Mr.
Dill, to whose respectability and the respectability of the
congregation over which he presided, he could testify. He
knew further, that the congregation felt the non-payment to
Mr. Dill as a slur upon themselves.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE was sorry the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had thought it his duty to bring the case
under the notice of the House, because it 11.,d been fully dis-
cussed at the late meeting of the General Assembly at
Belfast, by whom a committee was appointed to communi-
cate with her Majesty's Government upon the subject. The
case might very well have been left there, because any
communication from the General Assembly would meet
with that respect and consideration which had always
characterised the intercourse between the Presbyterian body
and the Irish Government. He admitted that the return re-
ferred to by the Hon. and Learned Member had not been
called for by Parliament. The rule requiring the particulars
alluded to from the Clonmel congregation, was made in con-
sequence of a request by Dr. Morgan to his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. Labouchere) that the usual amount necessary
to be subscribed by the congregations should not be insisted
upon. The call for the number of families was always re-
quired; and Mr. Dill was only called upon to furnish the
same particulars that were required from every other con-
gregation. At the same time when the particulars for 1847
were furnished, as they had been for 1818, the bounty would
be paid.
Mr. HERBERT did not consider the answer of the Right
Hon. Baronet satisfactory, because the complaint was
.not
so much at the return being required as the mode of re-
quiring it.
After a few words in explanation from Sir W. SOMERVILLE
and Mr. KEOGH,
Sir R. FERGUSON regretted the case had been brought
forward. Unfortunately there had been some differences of
long standing between Mr. Dill and Mr. Matthews upon
other subjects. As to the vote in general, he denied that it
had any political character.
Mr. kERSHAW repeated his objections to State support
being extended to any particular religious denomination, and
urged that the voluntary principle ought to be adopted.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment l3
Against it
Majority

The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was 4,177/. for the Concordatum Fund, and
other charitable allowances in Ireland, which, after a short
conversation, was agreed to.
The next vote was 3,4001. for the expense of the Commis-
sion for digesting the criminal law.
Colonel SIBTHORP objected to the enormous cost of this
Commission.
Sir G. GREY said that this was the last time that this
vote would appear in the estimate.
Colonel SIBTHORP hoped that it would be the case, but
did not believe it. —(A laugh.)
Sir G. GREY said that t he only remaining portion of work
for the Commission was the inquiry into criminal judicial
procedure, which was rapidly advancing to a conclusion.

The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was 2,5001. to defray the expense of the
metropolitan sanitary commission.
Mr. OSBORNE alluded to a petition presented the other
night, complaining of the state of the Serpentine river,
which was now nothing more than a stagnant pond. lie
had recently walked beside that same river, some parts of
which, near the bridge, were in a most noisome and pesti-
ferous state.

Lord MORPETII said that no one could go by or near
that river without perceiving the offensive state in which it
was. The matter had been referred to Sir John Rennie, and
he (Lord Morpeth) hoped soon to receive a report from that
eminent engineer. The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to :-
32,0001. for a moiety of the charge for public works con-
nected with navigation and drainage in Ireland.
1,1841. for the expense of works and repairs of the Ambas-
sador's house at Paris. _ _ _

3,0001. for works and repairs at the Ambassador's house at
Madrid. _ _

37,0001., the remaining portion of 50,000/., towards de-
fraying the charge of steam navigation to India by way of
the Red Sea. _

16,0001. for the militia and volunteers in Canada.
2,0001. to defray the expense of erecting a lighthouse at
B arbad o es.
On the motion that 22,5001. be granted to defray the ex-
pense of the medals to record the services of the British
army and navy from the commencement of the war in 1793
down to the peace of 1814,
Mr. OSBORNE expressed a wish to call attention to the
circumstances under which Lord Hardinge was sent to Ire-
land. He thought that it was but justice to the gallant
officer commanuing the forces in Ireland (Sir E. Blakeney)
to express his strong conviction that all the steps taken by
the military authorities for the suppression of the outbreak
had been taken before Lord Hardinge went to Ireland. The
gallant officer he alluded to was the senior officer to Lord
Hardinge, for he was captain of the company of the Guards
of which the Noble Lord was a lieutenant. That gallant
officer also, during his long service, had succeeded in winning
the respect and affection of the men under his command, as
well as the Irish people.—(Hear.) He had stated thus much
as he had heard that it was the impression of some persons
that Lord Hardinge was there to carry out the necessary
military arrangements.
Sir G. GUI'S quite agreed in the observations of the Hon.
Gentleman as to the high character of Sir E. Blakeney, and
no one could be more fitted for the command which he held
in Ireland than that gallant (Aiken It was quite incorrect
to suppose that Lord Hardinge was sent to Ireland to super-
sede him, but Sir E. Blakeney having said that in the then
state of Ireland it was desirable to have another general
officer in the south to command there, Lord Hardinge, in the
most handsome manner, and with the most patriotic notions,
offered to serve under Sir E. Blakeney.— (Hear, hear.)

Colonel DUNNE said that as he had' had the honour of
serving under Sir E. Blakenev he wished to bear his testi-
mony to that officer's distinguished services.
The vote was then agreed to.

A sum of 10,0001. was voted for the further expenses that
would probably be incurred for the maintenance, in the year
ending April 5, 1849, of convicts in Ireland.
A sum cf 1,500/. was voted for remuneration to Lieutenant
Waghorn, R.N., for his services in ascertaining the practica-
bility of the route via Alexandria for the conveyance of the
Indian Mail.
To the vote of 12,000/. for the further expelse incurred in
rebuilding the British Ambassador's house at Constantinople,
Sir. URQUHART moved that the sum be reduced one-
half. The original estimate was only 30,0001., which was
subsequently raised to 45,000/.2 and he should object to a
further addition of 12,0001.

A brief conversation, in which Lord llorpeth, Mr. Osborne
Lord Palmerston, and Colonel Dunne took part, ensued.
The gallery was cleared for a division, but none took place,
and the vote was agreed to.
The next vote asked was 20,0001. to complete the sum
necessary for civil contingencies.
Mr. OSBORNE objected to the item for gratuities for
extra services to the commissariat department, performed in
relieving distress in Ireland and Scotland. His motion
would, in fact, renew the Trevelyan debate, but he could
not avoid objecting to the giving rewards to the commis-
sariat whilst the services of the coast guard were not only
not requited with gratuity, but were not even acknowledged
with thanks. Yet Sir handolph Routh had said that he
could not have done without the valuable a,,sistance of the
coast guard; and three or four of the men had lost their
lives by fever, contracted whilst doing their duty in carrying
food to the poor. The unequal distribution of rewards was
most pernicious. To one man, who had risked his life,
a gift. of 751. was given, whilst to another no less
than 2,5001. was handed over, and be was made besides
a K.C.B. It was so improper, unfair, and injudicious,
that he should take a division on it. The Government had
acted doubly wrong—first, in giving the money to Sir
Charles Trevelyan without the consent of Parliament—and
next, in committing an assault upon the Order of the Bath.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not re-
nheawd been
-thedgeihvaetne
inu thpone uthseural reward
.to Sir Charles Trevelyan. It
Dr. BOWRING admitted that it was not an unprece-
dented act; but it was one of those ancient customs that
would be more honoured in the breach than in the observ-
ance. He hoped that for the future, it would not be again
imitated.

Mr. J. ABEL SMITH thought the gratuity to Sir Charles
Trevelyan a bare act of justice. He did not know that gen-
tleman personally, lout, judging from the reports he had
seen, he should be very sorry to see such services as Sir C.
Trevelyan had rendered to the country undervalued or un-
derrated.

those,,.. who
Sir
i R. 11. INGLIS also defended Sir C. Trevelyan; but be
merits by
thought that other grants for extra services might be made to
had deserved them.
praised servic
lonel DUNNE supported Mr. Osborne's view of the
question, and
thesaid that if they were to try
Trevelyan PiLzus.ll3/3
opinion there", had Sir C. Trevelyan's
test of opinion in Ireland, where his much-
productions,especially
been rendered, they would find that the
from that: put
f(Ttertained of him was very different indeed
stronglyblished
anindtlaievoHwte)dusethoef
aCuotnhiumrsohnisp.
Sir C.
hien] Which he had libelled the people
uo
it
Ireland, several
trdlords, and yet many men who
deserved rewards better
Why, he would ask, for were allowed to go unre-
quited.had that eminent
member of the Reform Club, wheininstance, had sent over to
(Laughter)—not
Ireland—he meant M. Soyer, the- they
services?—(Laughter.)lngle word of the
31;piss7bnll to overrate
been made a K.C.B. for his great (:°°k—
he thought,
them,
reliefthat liNt-orybk,usulidn
blereilmar
Mr. H. DRUMMOND had read every
judging reports
fromu p o n
the services of Sir Charles Trevelyan, and thee manner in
which he bore down the opposition he received, and con-
veyed relief to the poor, to whom it would other •
wise never
have come.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. URQUHART supported Mr. Osborne.
Mr. MUNTZ knew nothing about Sir Charles Trevelyan
except what he had heard in that House. But he held it to
be impossible that any man, by his extra services, could
fairly earn a suns of 2,5001. in one year, in addition to his
salary of 2,000/. or 2,500/. a year. What he chiefly ob-
jected to, however, was the manner in which the gratuity
was wrapped up in another vote, so that it might never have
been found out but for the accidental discovery made by an

Hon. Member.
Mr. WOOD thought that as the Noble Lord had promised
the other night to avoid in future a similar mode of classing
the votes together, there ought to be no further debate upon
the merely personal matter.
Colonel DUNNE explained. He had no personal motive
whatever. He had never seen Sir Charles Trevelyan in his
life.

➢lr. POULETT SCROPE said, that in agreeing to the
vote, the House was not to be considered as bound to any
approval of the system of relief given under the direction of
Sir C. Trevelyan.
Mr. GOULBURN said that the Honourable Gentleman
who bad just sat down appeared to him to take an erroneous
view of the question in supposing that Sir Charles Trevelyan
was rewarded for laying down a principle. Whether the
principles on which that gentleman had acted were right or
wrong, it was not he but the Government that was account-
able for it.—( Hear.) He felt anxious to express his ap-
proval of Sir Charles Trevelyan's conduct, but at the same
time he could not but disapprove of the mode in which the
grant was made to him.--( Hear, hear.) There had been a
studied concealment about the matter that raised a doubt as
to its propriety, which, if the vote had been openly brought
before the House, would never have existed. therefore,
while he entertained a full sense of the value of Sir Charles
Trevelyan's labours, he felt obliged to mark by his vote)
in favour of the Honourable Uelltleman's amendment hie

disapproval of the principle on which the grant had been
made.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said he hoped that his Hon.
and Gallant Friend would divide the Committee on this ques-
tion. They had been told that Sir Charles Trevelvan de-
served none of the demerit of the plan that he had acted
upon, and therefore it was to be presumed that he should
have none of the merit, if any existed.—(llear, hear.) He
(Lord G. Bentinck) had read all the correspondence that had
been published, and he really could not discover that any
such great ability had been displayed in that correspondence.
—(Bear, hear.) lie could not see the great merit of the sys-
tem of management that had been pursued, and he could
not forget that the country had been put to great and un-
necessary charges on account of the mode in which the re-
lief had been provided. For instance, at a time that oatmeal
was to be purchased for 141. a ton in Cork, it was sent to
Ireland from Deptford when it cost 18 guineas a ton.—
( Hear, hear.) He thought that 2,5001. a year, an amount of
salary equal to that of the highest officials in the United
States under the President, was quite enough for any la-
bours that Sir Charles Trevelyan had performed; and he
was also of opinion that no officer of the Treasury should con-
nive at a grant given in this clandestine manner.—(Hear.)
Mr. MONSELL begged to remind the Noble Lord that if
the Government had gone into the market of Cork to pur-
chase oatmeal they would at once raise the price, whereas
by purchasing at Deptford they were enabled to keep down
the price in lreland.—(Hear, hear.) He believed there was
no individual in this country who had devoted more time and
energy and ability to the difficulties which had to be con-
tended against than Sir Charles Trevelyan.
Mr. GOULBURN begged to remind the Hon. Member
that the vote did not in the least degree affect the character
of Sir Charles Trevelvan.
Lord GEORGE BEXTINCK said, in reply to what had
fallen from the Hon. Member for the county of Limerick, that
at the very time the Government were sending oatmeal from
Deptford to Ireland at eighteen guineas a ton, while it was
selling at 14/. a ton at Limerick and Cork, there were for
every one ton sent from Deptford to Ireland. no less than
three tons coming from Ireland into the Thames ; so that in
all probability the Government were merely sending back,
at a large additional cost, the very oatmeal that had just ar-
rived from Ireland at Deptford.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. REYNOLDS said that as he approved of the motion
of his Hon. Friend the Member for Middlesex, while he in-
tended to vote against it—(Laughter)—he wished to explain
that his motive in so voting was, that he believed the money
had been already paid, and that no vote of this House could
induce the parties to make restitution. He believed that all
the good they could do to the public was to condemn the
principle of paying money without the consent of Parliament.
After a few words from Mr. BROTHERTON,
The CHAIRMAN put the question, that the vote be re-
duced from 20,0001. to 15,0551.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment l4
Against it 73

Majority
Mr. OSBORNE said that there were other items in this
vote that he thought required explanation. He found a
charge of 1,1491. for robes, collars, and badges for knights
of the several orders ; 181/. for chains; and badges for the
master of the ceremonies and marshal of the ceremonies, and
also a charge of 523/. for defraying the travelling expenses
of the King of the Belgians, the Grand Duke Constantine of
Russia, the Prince of Leiningen, and other distinguished
personages, during their visits to this country. He thought
it disgraceful that the King of the Belgians and those other
distinguished personages should not pay their own travelling
expenses.—( Hear.)
Mr. PARKER explained that these items belonged to a
class of charges that were formerly in the Civil List, but had
been, of late years, transferred to the civil contingencies.
The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to :-428,3451. to com-
plete the sum necessary to defray the charge.of the com-
missariat department; 32,964/. to complete the sum necessary
to defray the charge of pensions and allowances in the same
department.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then proposed
a vote of 132,0001. to wind up the expenditure for the relief
of distress in Ireland up to the present half-year. The Right
Hon. Gentleman said that this sum had been expended
within the last few weeks. To show that the poor-rate had
been levied to a considerable amount for the same purpose,
he might observe that the whole sum collected in Ireland in
January, 1846, was 36,000/. ; in January, 1847, 52,000/. ; while
in January, 1848, it reached 194,000/. The entire sum levied
in the first six months of 1846 was 217,0001.; in the first
six months of 1847, 339,000/. ; and in the corresponding
period of 1848, 867,000/. There were, however, many parts
of Ireland in which the poor-rate, however well collected, had
been found quite inadequate to relieve the prevailing distress.
Twenty-two unions were in that position. The object of the
Government was that relief should only be given in districts
respecting which it had been shown that no possible exertion
in collecting the poor-rate would make it adequate for the ob-
ject. Relief had been given of late almost entirely in food.
As regarded the British Association, he would state, that the
whole amount expended by it was, 236,000/., of which sum
143,0901. went for rations for grown-up persons, 80,0001. in
the same way for children, and about 120,000/. for clothes.
The vote which he proposed was for relief given in continu-
ation of the proceedings of the British Association in the
three months immediately preceding the harvest, when the
distress was the greatest. There were many unions in Ire-
land in which it was impossible they could defray the cost
of their poor. The union in Ireland in which the greatest
distress prevailed was that of Clifden, in which the rate was
19s. 2d. in the pound. The valuation of the union was
22,400/. The expense of maintaining the poor in that
district, from September, 1847, to September, 1848,
was 18,310/. They had a small debt of 900!.
The advances made by the British Association were
9,000/. for general relief, 3,0001. for the relief of destitute
children, and the whole amount due from the union would
be upon a rated value of 22,400/., amounting to a rating in
the pound of 19s. 90. In another union in the county
of Clare, the amount of rating was 16s. 10(1. in the pound;
in another, 15s. lid. ; in another, 14s. 9d. ; Ballyra,
12s. 4d.; in Castlebarlls. 9d The rate in Ireland would
be 2s. 94d. In Down it was lighter than in most counties
in England ; it would there amount to Is. 2d. Taking the
electoral divisions in Donegal, there were electoral divisions
in which the charge for the maintenance of the poor this
year would be 445. 2d. in the pound. In Castlebar there
was an electoral division in which the charge was 295. in the
pound. In Galway it would amount to 235. Bd. This was
the charge in the pound upon the valuation ; but as it was
notorious that in many of the most distressed districts a large
proportion of the ratepayers could pay nothing at all, it was
hopeless to expect that any amount of rate could defray the
sum which was advanced. This statement applied to the
western coast; on the eastern and north-eastern part the
burden was lighter, which showed that the distress was local. I
It was, therefore, to sanction the expenditure of 132,000!.,
which was required from July to the end of the harvest, to
continue the relief which, up to that time, bad been afforded
in voluntary contributions, through the means of the British
Association, that he asked the House to agree to the vote.
There could not be any necessity for further assistance in the
way of depots. He believed that the events of the last two
years had introduced into Ireland dealers in meal and corn,
so that the guardians would be enabled to procure an ade-
quate supply of food. These were the circumstances which
induced the Government to take on themselves the responsi-
bility of demanding this sum of money. Without the assist-
ance thus rendered, it would have been utterly impossible
for the people to have been preserved frem utter starvation,
except by the means which had been so beneficially applied
by the British Association. lie trusted that the House
would ratify the responsibility which Government had taken
upon themselves.
The CHAIRMAN put the question that 262,545/. be
granted to make good the advances of the sum provided for
gitt;crioal‘enNnivsTrtie.ssol
hinloe:ff.tdiosiptficuos
bciNlstlitooisactt
pter
ee,Emsbtsohusnteianeiaaydsbl,
tshrhoeienall
uatnathedde,ni and Scotland, through the
Commissariat Department.
coulde
iei
fleinaoedoisltsgi
nfityvoeeN:tefhrtneehofpoot
poor-rates,
nerrg-eorsfaettloernesit,slifoe.:lnifui(
shoul
s
dd
ftake
ff
et hgeefof
generosity
onsi
fotny ofof theCommitteefiferioHouse,
e b y insf
sting oppositionffle extra-
ordinaryt to hi
gistnralonntsofln3dd2fs,hoOfirseosB/so.
sources
The Chancellor of the Exchequer had ap-
. I'.
rfeseosmoef
fooffortohleafliorioshdfidinnioont
tic4er.o:geu)relisadof etnhdeecahvaonucreedllotrooafsctehretaEinxetilLegcuoenrd. itihmilisoofptinhioosne
uniocorrespondns. He
(I\
ir
with
was, that Ireland was perfectly capable of maintaining her
poor, as well as the whole of her population. But ho had
another and a stronger objection to this vote—thr.t it was
given for the relief of such landlords as had not paid their
rents.—( Hear, hear.) By granting money, without an ade-
quate security upon the property of the country for its repay-
ment, they would be obstructing the objects of the poor-law.
They would be running counter to the professed intentions of
that statute, and they would be encouraging inertness upon
the part of proprietors. A premium would be held out to
those who were improvident All the landlords had to do
was to make out a case of inability to support the poor, and
they would then receive assistance. He moved the vote be
disallowed.
Sir J. TYRELL considered that strong measures with
regard to Ireland should now be adopted by Government.
There was a greater consumption of strong measures in that
House and in Europe at large than there was some months
ago.—(A laugh.) He did not mean to be offensive to any
gentleman ditierirg from his opinion or persuasion, but it
him that there was a great, distinction
was quite clear to
be-
tween Roman Catholics and Protestants. In the Protestant
districts of Ireland the poor-rate only averaged Is. in the
pound; while in the Roman Catholic districts it varied from
19s. to lls. in the pound. He solemnly believed that the
Roman Catholic religion, carried out in all its parts, was in-
compatible with the true cultivation of the soil.—(Laughter.)
In Switzerland, the common remark of every traveller
was the great difference between the agricultural prospects
of the Roman Catholic cantons and those of the Protestants.
The latter were far superior to the former. He trusted that
the Learned Doctor (Dr. Bowring), who had a European
t
reputation, would come to his assistance, and bear out the
of his statement. It was well known that in the Pro-
testant cantons individuals have stopped up all night, and
have got up early in the morning—(Roars of laughter)—of
course he meant other individuals and not those who were
stopping up all night—in order that they might go to mar-c
ket with their corn—(Heer, hear)—whereas in Roman
Catholic districts) whenever there is a burial, a wake, a wed-
ding, or a saint's day, tfie operations of agriculture are sus-
pended. And if this be not true, Honourable Gentlemen
who smiled at his statement could get up and contradict
him.—(Hear, hear.) He believed unless the Government
took some strong measures in reference to Ireland, in which
they would be followed by the universal feeling of the coun-
try, there would be repeated calls upon the coffers of this
country to subscribe to Ireland.
Mr. OSBORNE considered that this might well be termed
a miscellaneous debate. The Honourable Baronet had
banyinetsheemiweodrldtoall .
luratgfied into the discussion let religion of the Irish people,
In China
ffooargthetehoalttiTvuasficoannyeafndfh
eßseolgiliuwmas,
Would, then, the highest point of scientific which were Catholic countries, were the best cultivated of
religion of
Confucius
to Ireland, and untcabicri
Honourable Baronet wished to transfer the
people for the sake of the cultivation' of the soil? refinement.
Would, on to the
atiloineieznceioeutnflitde.
assure him that he could get
Stroud the har
assumed
mo re for any
that
greatn deal more work
tnytloiethrental for Ireland Roman Catholic than in Protestant disptrriocptse.r
done upon Sundays, when it waas
dHon.
eecressary for the pre-
-I,l,lgose, in
Membertion
flo) rf
15,000,00 W., but he (Mr. Osborne) considered that the u
was
Go-
vernment ought to confer some honourable distinction
pon
the Count Strilinskv for his exertions in the cause of huma-
nity in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Ile desired to take that op-
portunity of drawing attention to the meritorious services of
the coast guard in Ireland, who had undertaken the whole
burden of the commissariat arrangements for the behalf of
the poor.
Mr. CLEMENTS corrected certain statistical statements
of the Hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. P. Scrope) relative to
the proportion of the poor-rates paid in Ireland.
Sir. H. WILLOUGHBY asked whether there was any ba-
lance left unexpended out of the seven millions loan to Ire-
land. The House knew nothing of the expenditure of that

large sum.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that
the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Stamford
(Mr. Harries) had moved fur full information respecting
the whole amount expended for the relief of Ireland, and
papers in accordance with that motiou would be duly laid
vti tie

In answer to Lord GEORGE BENTINCK,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that
the whole sum expended for the relief of Ireland up to the
end of July last was about 9,135,0001.
After a short conversation,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL observed that the lion. Member
for Stroud, in objecting to the vote, did not seem to consider
that an immense change was going on in Ireland, nor to
make due allowance for the necessity under which both land-
lord and tenant were compelled to act. The burden upon
landed property in Ireland had been changed from 400,000/.
to 1,800,0001., in its'lf a great and important change.—
(Hear, hear.) Another change which had taken place in
Ireland was this—that whereas in 1836 there were no corn
or provision dealers in Ireland, there were now dealers in
those articles in every part of that country. Seeing the
change which had taken place of late years in Ireland, and
the burdens imposed, which, in particular districts, pressed
so heavily, he thought it was their duty to aid in the tran-
sition, and that it could not be said they in any way
wasted the money of the country by assisting certain unions
to bear the very great burdens which had been placed upon
them, borne, as these had been, on the whole, with a degree
of readiness which was highly creditable.—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to the future, that, no doubt, would be the
subject of discussion, and he did not wish to enter upon
it at that late hour. All he had to say was, that in
our present circumstances he did not think it would be
wise to lay down a system or propose a plan. We did not
know what was the extent of the present failure of the po-
tato cultivation—what was the exact amount of the very
great increase of potato cultivation which took place in the
present year, as compared with the amount of last year ; we
did not know what amount would be saved, or to what pe-
riod the stock would last; and under these circumstances he
thought it would be very imprudent to lay down a plan.—
(Hear, hear.) Government must, to a certai❑ degree, rely
upon the confidence of the Parliament ; they would not ask it
unnecessarily, or without a due regard to economy. If they
saw cause to call for extraordinary measures, they would
then assemble Parliament immediately, and propose to it
such measures as they thought fit.—(Hear.) In the present
state of affairs, seeing the number of Members who were ab-
sent, they did not propose, at the end of the session, to lay
down any general system or plan by which they should in-
variably abide.—( Hear.)
After a few words from Sir D. NORRETS and Mr. P.
Senors, the vote was agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved
a vote of 130,9651., to defray the expense incurred in British
North America, on account of sick and destitute emigrants
who had arrived in Canada from Ireland during the year
1847. This was the last time that such a vote would have
to be brought forward, for he was happy to say that for the
future the Canadians would provide for the emigrants them-
selves, and they had even undertaken to adopt measures with
a view to prepare lands for their reception immediately after
their arrival.— (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME would most joyfully give his assent to the vote,
for he was of opinion that the grant was due as a matter of
justice to the Canadians, who had behaved with the greatest
kindness to the unfortunate emigrants who were cast homeless
and destitute on their shores. Their benevolence was beyond
all praise, and entitled them to the gratitude and admiration
of that House.—(Hsar, hear.)
Mr. MACGREGOR expressed his entire acquiescence in the
sentiment expressed by the Ilon. Member. If ten times as
large a grant had been proposed he should have supported it,
for it would be nothing more than was due to the Canadians
for their uniform humanity to the emigrants.—(Hear.)
Mr. HENLEY was of the same opinion. The conduct of
the Canadians to the emigrants transcended all praise.
The vote was agreed to.
The last vote was for a sum of 500,000/., to discharge the
like amount of supplies granted for the year 1847.
The vote was agreed to.
The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be re-

ceived.
TRANSFER OF LANDED PROPERTY (IRELAND)
BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee.
POOR REMOVAL ( EN GLAN D AND SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion that the Bill be read a second time,
Mr. HENLEY objected to the subject being discussed at
that time of the night, or at that period of the session. He
therefore moved that the debate should be adjourned.
After a discussion, in which Mr. C. Buller, Mr. Thornely,
Mr. M. J. O'Connell, Mr. Grogan, and the Attorney-General
took part, the Bill was read a secoad time. To be committed
on Monday.
The Local Acts Bill passed through Committee.
The Commons Inclosure Act Amendment Bill was read a
third time and passed.
The Nuisances and Contagious Diseases Bill was reported.
To be read a third time to-morrow.
The Fever (Ireland) Bill passed through Committee.
The House adjourned at half-past Two.

RAILWAY INTELLIGENCE.

TEN BY, SAUNDERSFOOT, AND SOUTH WALES

RAILWAY.

The half-yearly meeting of this company was held yester-
day at the office, Gresham Rooms; Mr. W. Chadwick in the
chair. The report stated that the Commissioners of Rail-
ways had granted an extension of time for making the line
till July, 1851 ; that the executors of the late solicitors to the
company allowed a very considerable reduction to be made
in their account, which with some other outstanding claims,
having been paid, had reduced the balance is hand to a very
small sum ; that an arrangement had been entered into
with the Saundersfoot Railway and Harbour Company, by
which the latter agreed to reduce the rate of interest pay-
able by this company upon the purchase money of that
undertaking, from 5 to 4 per cent. per annum, provided the
half-year's interest due to them on the 30th of June last at
such reduced rates be now paid, and on their continuing to
receive the tolls and dues from the said railway and har-
bour, they will not require the balance of interest to be paid
to them until the Tenby and Saundersfoot Railway is
completed; that the Pembrokeshire Iron and Coal Com-
pany were opening up the resources of their collieries and
mines, that blast furnaces Nyere in course of erection, in addi-
tion to which other collieries are being opened and extended,
from which an augmentation to the income of the company
was expected ; that on the passing of the Act the directors
were voted 500/. per annum ; at the last meeting they deter-
mined to receive only a moiety of that sum, and now they
declined receiving any further remuneration until it is neces-
sary to commence making the line. The accounts for the
half-year showed that 3,031/. had been received, including
934/. from the last account, and 2,827/. expended, leaving a
balance of 2071. in hand.

The CHAIRMAN stated that the time for commencing opera-
tions on this line would depend entirely upon the progress of
the main trunk of the South Wales Railway. When that
time arrived the directors would call the shareholders toge-
ther, and submit the mode of proceeding.
The report was adopted.
At the special meeting a resolution was passed allowing the
payment of interest on deposits up to the 80th of June last,
but discontinuing the practice from and after that date.
Thanks were voted to the chairman, and the meeting se-
parated.

undertaking. The sum thus applicable to the payment of a
dividend is larger than on any previous corresponding half-
year, enabling the directors to propose a dividend equal in
amount to that paid at this time twelvemonths, although the
number of shares has been since that period increased by
one-half. This result is attributable to the conversion of de-
bentures into capital, by which a large and permanent re-
duction is made in the annual expenses. The traffic during the
first six months of 1848 showed that 1,273,969 passengers had
been carried, receipts 22,023/. ; at the corresponding period
of 1847, 1,354,622 passengers were conveyed, and the
receipts amounted to 22,9691. This decrease was prin-
cipally confined to the local traffic. In the Gravesend
traffic there had been an increase, notwithstanding the un-
toward state of the weather. The first half-year's receipts
for local traffic in 1848 amounted to 15,6591.; for Gravesend
traffic, to 5,156/. ; and Woolwich traffic, to 1,2081. ; in the
first half-year of 1847 the traffic was 16,8571., 4,670/., and
1,441/. respectively. The heads of an agreement with the
East and West India Docks and Birmingham Junction
Railway Company have been finally settled, the directors of
that company undertaking to complete a junction with the
extension line by the time their own line shall be finished to
Camden-town. The directors are still in negotiation with
the Easter Counties Company in reference to the use of the
extension line; and they cannot doubt that a common in-
terest must necessarily lead to an arrangement satisfactory
to both companies. The directors have thought it prudent
not to interfere with the traffic during the present and the
ensuing month, and they have therefore determined to defer
closing either of the lines for the alterations necessary to the
introduction of the locomotive system and the change of
gauge until the Ist of October. fhey have every confidence
that the extension line will be open in November, and that
both the lines will be in full operation under the new system
of working before the close of this year.
The report of Mr. Locke' the engineer, stated that the
works of the extension line had progressed rapidly and sa-
tisfactorily; that the whole of the arching was finished, and
all the bridges, with the exception of those over the Com-
mercial-road, the Regent's Canal, and the Bow-road, which
would be completed in six weeks. The permanent way
was laid along the whole line, except at the latter places;
one line of rails may be altered on the old line, and
opened simultaneously with the extension line in November,
and both lines may be altered and in operation by locomotive
power before the end of the year. The capital account to the
30th of June showed that 1,147,0751. had been received, and
1,079,1691. expended, leaving a balance of 67,9061. The re-
venue account stated that 26,4521. had been received for
traffic, including 2,5911. for rents and wharfage ; and the ex-
penses 20,9054, including 1,131/. Government duty, 1,0391.
rates and taxes, and 2,600/. interest on loans and scrip shares,
leaving a balance of 5,627/. The extension account showed
that 220,505/. had been expended, leaving a balance against
the company of 46,4351.
The CHAIRMAN, on moving the adoption of the report,
said the directors regretted that the extension line was not
yet open, and the gauge altered ; the delay had arisen in Par-
liament. He trusted the shareholders would approve of the
alteration in the gauge on the old line being put off till the
Ist of October, so as not to impede the large traffic re-
ceivable prior to that time. Their negotiations with the
Eastern Counties Railway Company had not yet led to any
determinate result, although principles had been laid down
between the companies which could be carried out, and the
directors only awaited coming to such an arrangement as
would be remunerative to the company.
Mr. IlAcrus seconded the resolution.
Mr. LEVY said they were charged 2014 for the passenger
tickets of the last half year, that his printer would do them
for 95/., and get a fair profit, which would save the company
about 2201. a year—a saving worth something on a Is. 6d.
dividend. He perceived that there were large arrears on the
extension shares, amounting to 30,5221. ; he thought those
who had not paid ought to be handed over to the company's
solicitor, and be made to pay.--(Hear.)
The CHAIRMAN said if Mr. Levy would send his printer to
look at the peculiar tickets they used, to prevent imposition,
and would do them for less than they paid at present, the di-
rectors would be glad to save the difference.
After some observations respecting the probability of leas-
ing the line to the Eastern Counties and the London and
North-Western Companies, Mr. Alderman Salomans warned
the proprietors against entering into any inconsiderate
bargain, and pointed to the example of the Greenwich
Railway.

The report was adopted unanimously and the dividend
approved.
A vote of thanks was passed to the Chairman, and the
meeting separated.