The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-20 00:00:00

ions to their Lordships. He would advert very shortly
to the proposal for reducing the number of the Bishop,.
It was said that bishoprics had been frequently united
and frequently disjoined ; and that where the sees were
inconsiderable they might be very properly united to'
getber. He was not inclined to contest any of those pct.!.
sitions ; but one circumstance was left out of considerai
tion, which was this, that in former times the union oi
bishoprics was from the necessity of the thing, because
the revenue of one bishopric was insufficient to maintain
the Bishop ; therefore they were united, and the right
still existed to grant sees in commendam. They were
united for the mere purposes of property ; but their
Lordships could not raise upon so small a basis such a.
sweeping measure as the one now before them, more tispe,
dally in a country where the Bishops tvere the
principal residents, and who, living tinder those
moral restraints which persons so high in the Church
must always observe, could not fail robe most useful in their
several districts. But what was to him of still greater
importance upon this part of the plan was that
the Roman Catholic Establishment was altogether left un.
touched. It must be so, because their Lordships had no
right to interfere with it. Indeed he should oppose more
strenuously any interference with that establishment that,
with the Protestant one, as connected with the Legislature.
Still, he would ask, was it good policy for those who
wished to support the Protestant religion to take away
ten of its Bishops at once, while the ground was opened
to a Roman Catholic Prelate, who might in all proba-
bility not only take the see, bat live in the Bishop's
palace? But there was another point, namely, ti:e ap-
pointment of Bishops by Parliament. This was highly
objectionable, and he knew it was most strongly felt as a
ground of serious apprehension by the clergy of Ireland.
It was on that ground that he should object to this part of
the measure, and he trusted, if it should reach the Com-
mittee, that that clause would at least be altered so as to
meet the feelings of the clergy of Ireland. He thought it
would be very unwise to offend that body of 'men, already
so touch excited, in a matter so easily remedied, by re-
turning the right of appointment to the Crown, to
whom it properly belonged, or to adopt some other un
exceptionable mode of exercising it. With respect to
the hardship on those Bishops who would have addi-
tional labour imposed upon them, he did not lay much
stress, though he thought some provision should be made
so relieve such of them as might be advanced in years,
especially when he might very conscientiously be un-
to subject himself to the addition I charge, upon
the ground that it was a species of plurality. If any pecu-
niary interest were attached to these unions of the
bishoprics what an noway would he raised against them
It was observed last night that the Bishop was mem
penned for any loss of revenue he might sustain by an in-
.crease of his patronage. Patronage appeared to hint to be
soo highly estimated; if it was on any account a desirable
thing it was that it might enable the possessor to sewers
merit, and assist the deserving. Its value in other re-
sin's:nit he could not speak of from his own experience;
and even that pleasure was not without a drawback, for,
while he was rewarding one deserving men, he knee.. that

ten equally de:serving men were left destitute of all re-
ward. With respect to the tux on ti e clergy, he would
admit that to a moderate tax he had no objec ion, p:ovided
it was raised for purposes exclusively connected with the
Church. The Church in both countries wanted many
thing,. They wanted the power of providing education
lire their Ministers; and be hoped th.tt funds wpuld be
'provided to support with efficiency the College in the
county of Durham, a part of the country where such en
establishment was much required. But as far as his
Mower went he woubl resist the application of even a
angle sixpence to any object not promotive of the welfare
of the Church. He wished to advert again fur a mo-
ment to the Board of Commissioners to be appointed
under this Bill. He did not distrust any of those who were
to he members of that Commission by virtue of their offices,
ctor of the Bishops : but his fears were that many occasions
arise for the necessary absence of those distinguished
persons; and he had always bound in those who constantly
managed any society or instilu ion a disposition to get the
entire direction of it into their own hands. It was to
those persons he. looked with suspicion ; it was the paid
Commissioners for whom he 'confessed be could not help
ureeling a degree of distrust, They would no doubt bet very
respectuble persOns, such, for instance, as the Commis-
-sioneri of strops or customs, among whom he had had
many friends; but that they would be qualified to conduct
the affairs of the Church was a thing very much to be
rlonbted ; while no doubt whatever could exist that they
would be the persons who wouli obtain a control over the
ruttier members of the Commission—a control, he meant,
'not by undue influence on the minds of those eminent in-
dividuals, but from the almost inevitable circumstance of
their frequent absence from the Board. He (bought,
however, that this evil might easily be provided ugaint,
by directing in this Bill that no business which concerned

?he discipline or immediate interests of the Church should
lie transacted except at stated periods, when it should be
requisite that three Bishops, or two Bishops and the Arch-
Eishop or the Primate, should be present. That, in his
opinion, would he a very proper caution to be adopted ;
for, though it had been said that the three additional
Commissioners might be clergymen, still, except they were
necessanily clergymen, it was right to assume that they
would be laymen. But what he objected to was the
eaiNtence of the Commission altogether, in reference to
ea:: management of the affairs of the Church. He did
not think that any remedial results would follow the ap-
pointment of this Commission. But, not to detain their
Lordships any longer, he objected to the Bill because re-
form was only a subordinate principle in it ; its real kin-
iniple was conciliation, which, in his opinion; would come
to nothing ; he objected to it because it was a viol .tion of
some of the right's which were still held sacred with respect
`to public property; he objected to it because it would give
the Roman Catholics (of whom he wished not to speak in
the spirit of unkindness) a temporaty triumph over the
Protestants, and would be a source of provocation on the
minas of the Protestants, which would not tend to pro•
duce harmony between those two classes which it was the
professed object of this Bill to effect; and be also objected
to it because it was the most sweeping measure that ever
entered into the contemplation of any Government since
the days of the Reformation. It would operate as a total•
revolution in church property ; the ancient posse•sots of
its lands would be despoiled, and it would be transferred to
strangers Add to all this, there was not a stuo word
hi the whole Bill to prove that this was a special case of
necessity ; there was not a single expression in it to guard
against the application of the same principle to every cur-
poration in the kingdom.--(Cheers.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON would trouble their
LOrdships with a few observations, in order to state to
them the course which he meant to take upon this im-
portant occasion ; and he would have gladly confined
himself to the statement of that course, and in the spirit of
the advice which was given by the Most Rev. Prelate,
and have avoided any thing like an angry discussion, if the
Noble Earl opposite, in his observations, upon what be
(the Duke of Wellington) had stated on a former occasion
in presenting a petition to the House, had not done so with
more than his usual asperity, and had not referred to topics
which made it necessary that heshould say a few words,
and more particularly had not endeavoured to throw upon
the Government which hninediately preceded that of
which he was so deservedly the head, the blame of having
caused all the difficulties which now existed. It was itn-
possible for hint to hear those charges, however desirous
he might be of atrending to the recommendation of the
Most Reverend Prelate, without making some reply to
them, and without stating some observations with re•
spect to the causes which led to the Bill now before
their Lordships. The Noble Earl thought that lie
(the Duke of Wellington) on a former occasion referred
to the measure of Parliamentary Reform as a measure
of reproach to the Noble Earl. He would solemnly
declare that since that All had passed lie had never made
the slightest reference to it. He considered it his duty,
now that it was the law of the land, not only to submit
to it, but to endeavour to carry its provisions into execu-
tion by every means in his power. The Noble Earl re-
garded Parliamentary Reform as the means to accomplish
certain ends, and only as the means. This he would say,
that if the people of this country were delighted with the
Rs formed Parliament, lie had no objection to their enjoy-
ing it. But it was, nevertheless, the duty of all those who
r commended any measure to Parliament, whether in or out
of office, to remember that the British constitution was
framed not only for the protection of the life and liberty of
the subject, but likewise for the protection of his property
—(Hear)—and that property was not protected by attend-
ing to the representations of one party one day to do away
with the great interests of a large portion of the people,
and to attend to the suggestions of another party on another
day to do away with the revenues of the Church, and ulti-
mately to destroy the constitution of the country. The
Noble Earl had also thotight proper to make accusations
a::ainst hies respecting the foreign policy he had advocated,
and had charged him with a desire to set np another Holy
Alliance in conjunction with the despots of Europe.
Earl GREY did not accuse the Noble Duke of wishing
to set up such a course of policy. What he said was, that
there was but one of two courses of policy to pursue, either
that of coercion, by putting a atop to all reform, or that
of adopting those salutary measures which the spirit of
the times required ; and he added, that if they acted upon
the former system it was likely to lead in its consequences
to the formation of something like another Holy Alliance.
The Mike of WELLINGTON upon that subject would t,