The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-23 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES
(YESTERDAY.) u-

HOUSE OF LORDS.
GROUP I.

Mr. Hughes, civil engineer, was called on the part of the pro-
moters. This gentleman said that the line, as laid down in the
plan, was the least objectionable which could be made near Mr.
Chapman's property.
The next case was for Sir John Trollope, M.P., who alleged that
the line would also injure his property.
This was the last of the landowners' cases.
THE vt A ciTEILIq COUNTIES.
Mr. ACSTIN said that he would now proceed with the case for the
Eastern Counties. Ile would not trouble their Lordships with an
opening speech, but would reserve himself till the conclusion of the
evidence.
The first witness called was Mr. Jasper Gripper, of Hertford, to
rove that the Eastern Countiesnine would be the best accommoda-
tion for the traffic between that place and the metropolis. The wit-
ness was examined at great length by Mr. AUSTIN.
After a cross-examination by Mr. DENISON, several ether witnesses
were called to prove that the Eastern Counties line to several towns
would be of greater advantage than the line proposed by the pro-
moters of the London and York.
The Committee adjourned at four o'clock to eleven o'clock on
Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP X.

The Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, in Room No. 1 (House
of Commons); present, Mr. Deedes (chairmen), Mr. Arkwright, Mr.
Vivian, Mr. Farnham, and Mr. Stanley. They resumed the consi-
deration of the
-

GLASGOW , A.I.MDRIE, AND VIONNLANDS

JUNCTION.
Mr.
r rbky, and air.
Coat-
bridge
s
Adie, the engineer, was further cross-examined
G
a n
STTH, the counsel for the Caledonian (u
bridge Railway Branches).
Ews, Q.c., the witness stated that
the purchase
In re-examination by Mr. Azgl,lversity
buildings was effected for
o company nfntthe terms Glasgow
ivadvantageous to both. The company would
purchase a new site the
and erect new buildings for the university at an
expense which would leave certainedlyambaeabylaseloarynrancineutagchrhaoaulm;sahtiltahtbhelee:foo.urnßtdhuse,t
the buildings now standing
uses of a railway company. Awosturl
which was obviously an advantage to the railway, became " where-
over you have coals and water you will be sure to get plenty of
factories."
Mr. John Millar, civil engineer, was next examined by Mr. AN.
wiLi,w9, in support of the evidence of Mr. Ad;e, whose mode of lay-
Lug out the line he entirely approved ot, in respect to the choice of
the direction, the levels, and the plan of working. Ile regarded the
estimates to be rather full, and certainly not below the probable
cost. The witness had turned his attention particularly to this sub-
ject, and he had no doubt that the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands
Junction would give better accommodation to the district than the
two competing, branches projected in connexion with the Caledonian.
Witness Is the engineer of the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway.
The evidence of Mr. Smith, of Glasgow, architect and surveyor,
and others, was then taken In support of the estimates, into the detail
of which it Is not necessary to follow the witnesses. It appears that
the cost of erecting a new university, Including
the purchase of the
newsite, would be 110,0001., from which should be deducted 48,930/.,
which the Company would receive for the land and materials to be
sold, leaving 61,04/. as the cost of the terminus and station in
Glasgow.

The evidence for the promoters having been concluded,
Mr. Errington, the engineer of the Caledonian (Dundyvan Branch),
was called by Mr. FORSYTH, and gave evidence to the effect, that in
the engineering merits, the cost, and the general accommodation to
the district to be passed through, the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monk-
lands Junction was inferior to his line.
The Committee then proceeded to take the evidence (according to
Mr. Duncombe's resolutions) respecting the
CALEDONIAN (DUNDYVAN BRANCH).

Mr. Smith, of Deanston, land surveyor and valuator, was then
called by Mr. Forsyth, and examined as to the accuracy of the esti-
mates for the purchase of the land to be required by this company.
In cross-examination by Mr. ANDEMWiI the witness adhered to his
Opinion that his valuation was adequate, " especially as he had no
university to value."—(A laugh.)
Other evidence in favour of this competing line was adduced, and
the Committee adjourned at four o'clock to Monday—the decision as
to the preamble of the previous Bill being postponed until after the
evidence on the competing lines ; and the statement of the counsel
for this Bill being also deferred until after the evidence in its support.

GROUP VIII.
NOETH azrrxsif (CARLISLE EXTENSION).
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. Robert Cowep re-examined—The 20,000 tons of Canobie coal
he meant was the quantity that would be consumed in Carlisle and
south of it.
To the Cfmß3lAN—The length of the canal was 1114 miles. The
present rates down the canal was is. a ton, and 3d. a ton for tack-
ing, being Is. 3d. each ton. He had learned that there was an in-
tention to reduce it to 6d. The present price of coals hi Carlisle was
for the best Ss. 2d. ; second, ss. Bd. ; and third quality for steam
Purposes, Is.
Mr. Marshall, traffic-taker, examined—He had had considerable
experience in taking traffic. He took the traffic for the North Bri-
tish line. The observations on the present line were taken by men
Placed at various points along the route in the months of
Jancitry and August. He took the passengers from the way-hills.
The traffic of this route had much decreased of late, on account of the
greater facilities afforded by the Newcastle route from the opening of
the railways south. In making his estimate of passengers, he had
added 150 per cent, for increase, which he considered a moderate cal-
culation. In addition to the passengers through Hawick, he had
taken. 1,500 passengers, who went yearly by the Newcastle route for
the south that would go by the present line, if it was opened. The
whole number of passengers that went that way was 10,000, and of
that amount he thought 1,500 a moderate number that would go this
way if they had railway accommodation. The parties by gigs and
Private vehicles were taken by observation, and to that also he had
added 150 per cent. The same principle of noting traffic
was observed in estimating goods. He had taken credit in the
tables for a large amount of fish that would pass along this line from
Dunbar to Liverpool and Manchester. lie had calculated 1,500
tens of fresh meat that would go by this railway. His coal esti.
mate he made out from the estimate of the witnesses examined yes-
terday. The cattle •nd sheep traffic was made from the information
of Mr. Nelson and Mr. Maxwell. The total income was set down
at 60,566 L

Cross-examined—He took January and August for the passenger
traffic. August was not a fair month, but it was compensated by
January. The traffic in August was taken about the middle of the
month. His information of the passengers that went by Newcastle
he got from guards and coachmen and inquiries made at Edinburgh. Of
all the Passengers that went by the Edinburgh and Newcastle coaches
he took 1,500 that would go by this line; as he learned that
a great proportion of those also went south of Newcastle, went to the
midland counties of England. He had but estimated 100 per cent.
of increase on the Hawick line last year, but he had seen reason this
year to consider 150 a lair calculation. The men who were placed
to make the observations were instructed to put down every person
on horseback and every vehicle that was travelling more than three
nines; and out of this Information he made his tables, striking off
from the data furnished a proportion, so that the table furnished
would include only those that were travelling six miles and upwards.
Ile considered that 9,1371. would be raised this way. lie did not
consider that an over-estimate. He had never heard of parties
being purposely sent by companies along the roads in gigs, in order
that they might be included in the traffic calculations.—(Laughter.)
If the route from Dunbar, through the North British to Newcastle,
and from thence in a direct manner to Manchester, was shorter, then
the 4,000 tons of fish he had estimated to be carried by this line was
erroneous, as a great portion of it would go by the east line. The
fish that would go fo Liverpool and Manchester, would in all proba-
bility, take that route. With respect to the coal traffic, ha had taken
the present consumption at Hawick, and trebled it, making 24,000
tans in all. He had estimated a ton and a half to each person. When
he spoke of Hawick in this estimate, he meant the town and parish
of Hawick and the district surrounding it. The population
of the town and pariah of Hawick in 1841, was 6,573.
Mr. RICKARDS asked how he could make up the balance of 16,000
of a population which was implied in the supposition of a ton and
half being consumed by each person in the Hawick district ?
Witness then went through a series of parishes in and beyond the
neighbourhood of Hawick which when cast up made a population
of 13,419. He admitted, therefore, that 24,000 tons showed an over
estimare-of 4,000. This was at the same time on the supposition
that the coal delivered at the Hawick station would go as far north
as Jedburgh and St. Boswell's, and that the Dalkeith coal would be
shut out of this district, also that the Canobie coal would retain its
present price. His calculation given last year of coal
and lime being brought out of the Lothlials must now
be struck out as far as these tables were concerned, as they were
calculated to be supplied from Canobie and Langholm.
Mr. Patrick Maxwell, of Canobie, was briefly examined in COM-
boration of the evidence of the previous witness.
Mr. Blythe, civil engineer, esaamined by Mr. Sergeant BELLASts—
He laid down the line under the direction of Mr. Miller, The line
joined with +he Ecliiihur;ll Railway at Hawick, and passed by Moss
Paul, Langholm, asad the east side of Langton, on to Carlisle. The
last mile of this I:.ne was nearly identical with the deviation line of
the Caledoelara Company now before Parliament, for entering into a
central station to be constructed in Carlisle. There would be no difli-
culty In both companies using the same line here with a
double set of rails. The steepest gradient oil the line
was. 1 in 75, between Netherby and Langton. 'fhe
length was 2l miles. The smallest radius on the main line was
three furlongs. There was a tunnel of 300 yards in length, near to
3(,, Paul. The ascending gradient from Hawick to Moss Paul was
,one in 100, and the descending one towards Carlisle, one in 90.
There were four short viaducts, 850 yards in length altogether. The
main line was tett; miles in length, and there were two short
branches of 114, miles each. This would form the shortest 'oute
from Hawick to London and Lancashire, connecting the lines at pre-
sent authorised to be made. From Hawick by Carlisle the distance
to London would be 343 miles ; and by Kelso and Berwick, 407
miles. The whole distance from Edinburgh by Itawick to Carlisle
was 96 miles, by the Caledonian about 100 miles. His whole esti-
mate of the line, including land, was 660,0%/, The working expenses
were estimated at 37 per cent.
Cross-examined by Mr. Ileer---fle thought the present line would
be worked in connexion wit% the Edinburgh and Hawick line. Last
year his estimate was ifs per cent. for working expenses. He had
not calculated the a'
atstance from Hawick to London on the supposi •
lion of the Lotto
aolt and York being granted. If that were made then
the distance, by Berwick and that :ine would be 37,5 miles, and if
the Northern passed, nine miles sharter. They proposed to
run I.
~ • -atO the station of the Lancaster and .Carlisle Company at Car-
aim, to which the latter objected. This line crossed several
*tie eughfares. It crossed Crown-street on a level. Borough-
street was proposed to be lowered three feet, and to be
crossed by an arch of twelve feet. There were several
em on the level. They might have had a gradient of one in a
100 at Netherby had they chosen to expend money for it. Witness
had a ethernet(' pass along the oilier bank of the Esk, but Sir J.
n't objected to it. It would have had better gradients than the
Dreamt line. A deviation had also
th,s
____ been made to meet the objections
Duke or nuecteuch. The T v itcrossed 13 times.
Itr. Hort here submitted
the estimates of works,
which,a paper, with a series of questions on
answers
if the witness would return written
mach shortened, to them, his ('Mr.HODe'. croes-examtnation would be very
2slr. Sergeant Beetsans objected to this course as unusual
*ought It would interfere much more with the time of the' and Corri
mittee than if the questions were now put to the witness in regular
order.

After some conversation on the point, it was arranged that Mr. 1
Hope should put Lis questions then seriatim to the witness.
Mr. Blythe was then questioned at length on the amount of exca•
vation, the nature of the strata, the embankments, bridges, mason-
work, permanent way, &c., going in detail over the whole works
ah.ing the line.
The cross-examination was proceeding, when
The CHAIRMAN said, as it was evident that the questions had re-
ference to the case of the Caledonian that was to follow, he thought
it would be as well that a written abstract was drawn up and put in
by the witness.
This was assented to and the cross-examination was dropped.
CALEDONIAN SXTENSION.
Mr. CocisraN, in reference to an observation that dropped
from the Chairman at the close of yesterday's sitting, as
to whether the promoters intended to proceed with the Cale-
donian Extension, said it was evident that the observation of
the Chairman proceeded, no doubt, from the supposition that
the main claim of that line was negatived by the decision in favour
of the Dumfries scheme. Now he wished to call the attention of
the Committee to the fact that the southern connexion with Ayr-
shire was really subordinate to the real cl!ims which the Caledonian
Extension preferred for the favourable consideration of the Commit-
tee. The main feature in the case was the formation of a connexion
between Edinburgh and Ayrshire. Besides, it would have the effect
of opening up to ilasgow the richest coal and mineral district in
Scotland, that of Lesinahagow. It was, therefore, their intention to
proceed with the Bill, which he begged to observe was independent I
of the Caledonian Company.

The CHAIRMAN said the Learned Gentleman was correct as to the
impression of his meaning. He certainly thought the question of
southern connexim was in a great measure settled by the decision in
favour of the Dumfries line. Still, as the case was such as the
Learned Gentleman represented, the Committee would cheerfully go
into the whole case for the Caledonian Extension, and he begged of
the promoters to dismiss fror their minds all supposition of the
Committee being In the least egree prejudiced against the scheme.
The Committee then adjouruM till Monday at twelve o'clock.

The Select Committee appointed to consider the merits of the Bill
cOmpribed in this group re-assembled at the usual hour this morning,s Mr. Protheroe in the chair.
TIED MID RENT ATIV/OSPREILIC.
The case for the promoters of the atmospheric line, was the drat
gone into this morning.
Mr. Wm. Arthur Wilkinson, the Chairman of the Croydon Com-
pany. was the first witness called. The orhinal estimate of the
Croydon line was 140,000/. or 15,0001. per mile. At the time it was
earned, an arrangement w,s made that the traffic of the South-
Eastern scheme should pas over that line.
bin ALExanza, on behalf of the Sonth-Eastern Mid Kent scheme,
objected to the evidence taking this course.

Ur. Sergeant TALIOURD apprehended that the evidence was per-
fectly relevant to the question before the Committee, namely, which
Was the bat Las for the public. Now a very larze z.apital had been
expsna3l iu the =stmt.:lt ct Vas Crvl:22 lln. cu th 3 faith thst

LONDON AND YORZ.
The Committee met again this day at eleven o'clock, the Earl of
Lovelace, chairman.
The case of Mr. Chapman, landowner at Hornsey, was opened by
Mr. Hors. The Learned Counsel stated that the line of railway in-
terfered with his client's residence at Hornsey, and nothing but a
deviation of the lice would suit him, for as the line was at present
on the plan, his residential property would be rendered entirely
valueless.
Mr. Chapman was called to speak to the Injury which he would
sustain.