The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-28 00:00:00

RA I [AWAY COMMITTEES.
(1 ESTERDAY)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

nooin A.

CORNWAX.L.
This Committee met at the usual hour.
Air. Brunel, engineer of the line, was examined with respect
to the works, which he stated were not remarkable for any extraor-
dinary difficulty, considering the nature of the country in which they
were to be constructed. There was a gradient of lin 60 for two
miles.
Mr. Rows cross-examined the witness at considerable length, to
show that the central line was the better line.
The questions put to the witness were pressed so pertinaciously
that the Chairman expressed his intention of vacating the chair if
this style of examination, were persisted in.
Mr. Rows then opened the case for the opposition, and at the con-
clusion of his observations the Committee adjourned.

Room 13.

The members of this Committee, namely, Lord Portman (chairman),
Lord Dc Hos, Lord Morley, Lord Mendip, met at eleven o'clock.
NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE AND CARLISLE

BRANCH.

The Committee decided that the preamble of the Bill was proved,
and the clauses were then gone through,
NEWCASTLE AND DARLINGTON (PONTOP
AND SOUTH SHIELDS PURCHASE),
This Bill, being unopposed, the Committee declared that tn.- pre-
lim:ibis was proved.

COCILERBIOITTH AND 17.TOTZKINGTON
EXTENSION.
This Bill being also unopposed, the preamble was proved.
The Committee then separated.

Room C

.._... -
SOUTH-EASTERN BRANCH (MAIDSTO:
TO CHART.)

The Committee re-assembled this morning; the Earl of Devon in
the chair.

Room D.
GLASGOW, DITIVIPRIES,`AND CARLISLE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. Locke, civil engineer, examined by Mr. ,rs
OCKBCAN—FIe rfrlB
engineer of the Caledonian line, and perfectly familiar with the
railways in Scotland. He quite agreed that the estimate of the
`Caledonian Company far the Dumfries and Gretna branch was
a correct one. He would advise the directors to-morrow to accept
tenders for such works as those named in the 8111 sanctioned by
Parliament.. The prices which Mr. Collister had attached to the
'various items were less than those paid on the Caledonian, and ho
thought the latter fair, and reasonable, and was prepared to defend
them. He agreed also in the evidence given by Mr. Collister on the
cuttings, bridges, and permanent way. The rock on this line was
similar to that on the Caledonian line. The particular rock which
had been referred to was trap, or grawicke. The same ridge extended
across the Caledonian line. He did not believe the works could be con-
structed for "less than stated by Mr. Collister. Mr. Miller's estimate
for the Ilemfries and Gretna portion of the Nithsdale scheme was
251,0001. ; his was 338,751/. He had originally, at the recommenda-
tion of the Commissioners, given up Annan on the route of the line.
neat so reluctantly, though he still calculated on the Annah traffic
as belonging to the Caledonian, and so did the Commissioners. The
came applied to Dumfries. He believed, also, that 48,0001. was as
little as the line could be worked for per annum.
Cross-examined—He did not know that Mr. Robert. Stephenson
or Mr. Brunel had changed their systems. He believed Mr. Brunel
let his works by competition, as did Mr. Vignoles and Mr. Hawk-
shaw. The last great work of Mr. Stephenson was not let by com-
petition. The whole estimate of the Caledonian line was 2,000,0001.,
but at that moment he could not say how much it was per mile.
The levels sn the route of the Nithside line were very favourable.
The line of railway recommended by the Commissioners in the
year 1840 had a gradient of 1 in 113. This was the severest.
The present Caledonian line had a gradient of I in 75 for four miles,
and 1 in 80 for four miles. The severest gradient on the Nithsdale
line was 1 in 150, which was a good gradient for general purposes,
though not for a heavy ascending mineral traffic.
Mr. Thomson, assistant to Mr. Locke, deposed that he had sup-
plied the quantities from the sections of the line to Mr. Collister, and
they were correctly made up.
Cruss-exam:ned—He had taken what was rock and what was not
from the sections. He could not say who had written the words
On the sections. He believed all the words werr written on at the
time he made the calculation. With regard to the word '• trap," he
believed it was written on the sections at the time he took the quan-
tities, but he could not say positively that it was.
Re-examined—All he had to do in the present matter was simply
to take the cuttings and slopes from the sections and calculate ac-
cordingly. He had nothing whatever to do with the marking of the
rocks, or as to what kind of rock should be 'marked at particular
places.

-31 r. COLLISTER, civil engineer, was recalled and briefly examined,
to the effect that the writing in pencil on the sections, which had
been referred to, was written on them at the time the calculations
were made. As far as the outline and general character of the line
were concerned, the plans and sections from which he had calculated
were a perfect copy of those deposited in the Private Bill-oftlte.
Mr. COCK BURN intimated that this was the evidence he had to
Offer on the question of engineering and estimates.
Mr. ANDREWS then said he proposed to recall M. lt..;:aler.
Mr. COCKBURN objected, as the case for the
Mr. Aleussws said he wished to recall 7..rnoters was closed.
mat. Miller, to offer expla-
nations on the points alluded to .respe.::,:ing
the line, and to prove that the price of the works on
contraets were being executed at
less prices on other lines. It would be recollected that his Learned
Friend carefully omitted t-
crost-rxamine Mr. Miller on those points
when he was before th. cmmittee.
The CHAIRMAN I'Atiinated that they did not think It necessary to
call Mr. Miller,
The room was then cleared for the deliberations of the Committee.
After s, tile Minutes the parties were Called in, when
The evtatitsteN said the Committee wished that Mr. Cockburn
libeled be restricted to ene speech, and therefore they thought it well
141 intbrrn counsel for the Caledonian that tiey did not think the evi-
dence for the estimates of the Nithsdale line had been shaken by the
counter-evidence adduced. The Committee were, therefore, now pre-
pared to hear evidence on the Dun:tries and Canoble branches of the
Caledonian Company.
The case on behalf of these branches was then resumed.
Mr. Locke, civil engineer, examined—Deposed that the Caledo-
nian branch, between Dumfries and Carlisle, was shorter than the
Dumfries scheme. In other respects it was the same. Tie thought
k would be better for Dumfries that two COrapa.lies should meet
there, rather than being plated entirely tinder one company. Re-
specting the Canobie Caledonian braucti whirls went to Langholme,
It had better gradients for mineral traffic than the Nithsdale branch.
Cross-ExamineAt—The inhabitants of Dumfries, he believed, were
Very generally in favour of the Nithsdale scheme, and also the land-
owners along it. With retard to all traffic passing from Carlisle,
through Deiratlies up Nithsdale, there would be as much incon-
veniciam from the two lines meeting at Dumfries as at Gretna. Re
thoUr:nt his Dumfries line towards Edinburgh was much preferable
to the Nithedale and Crawick branch.

Re-examined—He did not think it would be possible to run trains
from Dumfries to Edinburgh by the Crawick branch in connexion
with the Caledonian, and thus there would be a considerable loss of
time. The Caledonian line had a project which would have to some
extent supplied the accommodation sought to be given by the Crawick
branch—the Caledonian Extension. No doubt the-Caledonian in
time would have supplied the district with lateral branches.
Mr. Errington, civil engineer, corroborated the evidence of the
previous witness respecting the branches proposed by the Caledonian
Company, and their superiority to accommodate the southern and
Edinburgh and Glasgow traffic, over the Nithsdale scheme, including
the Crawiek branch.

Mr. Brandt, banker of Annan, examined—He was In favour of the
liithsdale scheme last year, because the Caledonian branch did not
touch Annan. He thought the proposition of the present year would
cccommodate Annan better than the Nithsdale scheme, in as far as
communication with the north and Edinburgh and Glasgow wa
concerned.

Cross-examined—He seconded a resolution at a public meeting
last year in favour of the Nithsdaie line, but that was before the
Caledonian Company altered its proposal with regard to Annan. lie
was a shareholder in the Caledonian, and also in the Nithsdale
scheme.

Mr. Elliot, farmer, in the neighbourhood of Dumfries, examined—
Be said the opinion of a great number of persoos in his neighbour-
hood was, that the Caledonian branches would better supply um,
morn populous portions of Dumfries than the Nithsdale scheme.
Cross-examined—The Caledonian would not accommodate parties
between Dumfries and Curnnock, or persons coming from Ayrshire,
Tau Committee then adjourr.cd till to-morrow at eleven o'clock.

Room E.

EMETZR, YEOVIL, AND DORCHESTER.

(Continued front our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Bedford and Mr. White were examined with regard to gene-
ral traffic.

Mr. Jonathan Neill, examined by Mr. DENISON--Would not put
Cattle on a railway, except they were very fat. Preferred driving
sheep across the Downs to sending them by the railway, except
ewes heavy with Lamb.

Crom-examined by Mr. iIILDTAID—Have had a few smothered
on the Southampton hallway.

fir. Charles 3llsson colncided with the foregoing evidence.
Cross-examined by Mr. HILDTARD—CattIe prefer the broad gauge
Should rather walk them than send them by the narrow gauge
Rad a bullock once smothered on the narrow guage.

Mr. I)qcll;,ined by Mr. DENISON—CattIe are not comfortable
on the narrow gaug,!. People might laugh, but their comfort ought
to be eonsidered.
Cross-examined by Mr. HUM-A:lD—Could not go to Smithfield and
pick out a broad or narrow gauge bullock
Lord De Morley, examined by Mr. DEN-mos—Was an original pro-
Meter of the Southampton and Dorchester. Preferred the Exeter
Great Western to the other.
Mr. William :Moore, of ilmallbridge—Should not use the proposed
railway.
Cross-examined by Mr. RILDTAAD—CouId not use it In going to
nepton Mallet. The chief market from Smallbridge was Poole.
Mr. sly, malster and wine merchants—The most important
Market, are Bath and Br.sta
petitions had been signed at Wincanton in
Cross-examined—Two
favour of the present line.
Shafte b
Mr. Richard mane, grocer,
sury, considered that the effect
would be ruinous to that town Should prefer the Wilts and Smiler-
r .accomm
set line, which would bette
of
B, stole the Shaftesbury trade,
which chb-tly lay in the direction .
Mr. James Poole, land surveyor, at Desborough—Knew the landed
d Yeovil. Kw erw. W
thropey between alisbury an l
..
was a great
quantity oFtimberS bet Ween those two p aces.ne
The Committee then adjourned.

Room 11.

AIRDRIE AND BATRGA.TE JUNCTION.
The Committee met this morning at the usual hour. The Men.
berg present were, the Marquis of Westminster (chairman), Lord
jiannerS, the Marquis of Hertford, Earl Spencer, awl Lord Seagraye.
The opposition to the Airdrie and l3athgate line having been
withdrawn,
Evidence was adduced pro forma for the preamble, and
The Committee declared that the preamble of the Bill was proved.
The clauses were then agreed to.
• CALEDONIAN' • (GLASGOW. GARNlrryilr,
AND COATIMIDGE PO'RCECASE).
. . _ . .
. R, sargeontlfstosirAtitr6u the part of the promoters, having
Ittitorrhed the comtlttee that there was no Gpaltio to uze SW,
10,11,7 0444 i 55044444 and caZed
tt..:=

HILDYARD opened the ease for the promoters of the Bill.
long discussion took place between the counsel as to the right of
the corporation of the Newcastle Infirmary, a portion of whose
ground was crossed by the proposed railway, to be heard.
The Committee decided that the petitioners were entitled to be
heard.
Mr, John Moore was then examined by Mr. Irronsm, and stated
that the level of the rails was below that of the entrance to the in-
firmary at Newcastle.
This witness was cross-examined at length, to show that great
annoyance must result to the inmates of the infirmary in question
from the proposed railway.

Mr. It. Stephenson, the engineer, was called, who confirmed the
statements of Mr. Alexander respecting the estimates and gradients on'
the line, stating further that in planning this Mid-Kent branch he had
a view to the through traffic to the coast. There is a•linle already in
working between Tunbridge and Tunbridge Wells, and an Act has this
session been obtained for a line from thence to Hastings. In laying
out these lines he had always considered Maidstone as a centre of
operations, for that place was so situated that lines in all direc-
tions can radiate with great advantage to the country.
The Fetlock Wood Bill had been lost in the -House of
Commons this session, so that the communication with Chatham
will not be complete, but that line will be applied for again, and then
the scheme which had been devised would completely supply the whole
of the county of Kent with railway facility. By the formation of this
line the distance between Maidstone and Dover would be reduced
thirteen miles, and the distance between the former place and Chart
would be reduced nearly one-half. Taking Maidstone as a centre, the
passengers from London would be saved twenty miles, and those(rom
Maidstone would be saved thirteen miles. The district is now
altogether without railway accommodation, and, in his opinion, as
an engineer, the line was absolutely essential for the welfare of the
Inhabitants. A Bill has been obtained this session for enlarging the
station of Ashford, which it is now intended to use as a
station depot, just as Swindon is for the Great Western line.
and Wolverton on the Birmingham Railway. As the engineer of the
London and Birmingham line, witness had had peculiar opportuni-
ties of observing the evils of a divided management, especially
at Derby, where there were three different companies using the
same station. The consequence of that fact was that a continual
disunion occurred ; but an amalgamation of the three com-
panies who worked the line between London and Leeds took place,
and the effect had been not only to obtain an harmonious co-opera-
tion in the functionaries of the company, bat the expenses of one
of the three parties had entirely • disappeared in the cash account,
although the traffic has very largely increased. The c. untry be-
tween London and Maidstone is certainly very difficult, and good
gradients could not be obtained. A Mid-Kent line was absolutely
necessary for the through traffic from Dover, for the traffic from
Chatham must be very freqaent, and would consequently interrupt
the communication with the Continent.•
On cross-examination, Mr. Stephenson stated that the line to
Lewisham, the Bill for which was already obtained, deviated from
the Greenwich Railway,. and running through Deptford. would
give accommodation to that place, as well as to seve-
ral others, at present on to Lewisham, where it is about
two miles and a half tram The Cros don line. In carrying out the
whole of this scheme there-Would be twenty-nine roads crossed in a
level, including that turnpike-roads. The tunnel at Farnborough
would be 2,513 rigrrtis.lting: but the country was difficult, and he
adopted this coatis as well as that of crossing the roads
on a level, to save expense, the amount for that purpose being
very serious in a hilly country.
After hearing same further evidence, the Committee adjourned.