The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-11 00:00:00

TILE S'UN, LON'D'ON, THU'RSD'AY EVENING, JUNE- All 1846.

iwttleten ews;selis to
prove
have
ft tnhte m n omf
any more evidence on that head.
theMe;r t.tet.i°°t jot't• theTcr2S
h—r(l7wcthtivaryve titrarrdir,
denee of that description.
The lion. CriataxAv. —No ; I think we have had enough of evi-
Mr. WOotintellE—Then, I shall proceed to call evidence to show
the accommodation which this line will afford to the different towns
through which It will pass.
Mr. Osborne, magistrate's clerk, Shipnall, was accordingly called,
and proved the accommodation which the scheme would offer to the
people of that town, three-fourths of whom, he said, were
in favour of this line. The alternative line (the South Staffordshire)
would inflict great residential damage. Their station would be a
quarter of a mile distant from the Market-place of Shipnall. Mr.
Cope, one of the landholders whose property would be injured by the
opposing scheme, had petitioned against it.
Cross-examined by Mr. RoanisoN—l am not authorised to give
evidence here on behalf of Mr. Cope, nor do I know whether he has
abandoned all opposition to the South Staffordshire line. The station
of the Shrewsbury and Birmingham line at Shipnall will be 100 yards
distant from the Market-place. I should be much surprised to hear
that three-fourths of the people of Shlpnall had petitioned against
this line.

Mr. Power, surveyor, Shipnall, gave similar evidence to the last
witness. The station there would be most conveniently situated.
The people of Shipnall had memorialised the Board of Trade in
favour of this line.
Mr. Simms, ironmaster, of Bay's-lane, in the parish of Shipnall,
was proceeding to give traffic evidence in favour of the line, when a
messenger from the house of Commons announced that the Speaker
was at prayers, and the Committee accordingly adjourned until
twelve o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP LIV.

LEICESTER AND BIRMINGHAM, WITH A

BRANCH.
On the re-assembling of the Committee this morning several wit-
nesses were called and examined on behalf of the opponents to this
line, with a view to show the superior accommodation wh'ch would
be afforded both to passengers and goods by the Direct Birmingham
and Leicester line.
Some additional evidence was adduced and the Committee ad-
journed.

GROUP Lin.

effect as those presented by the Noble Duke, r.•marking at the
same time that the present treatment of juvenile criminals after
their discharge in England, was a disgrace to the country.
(Hear, hear.)—The country had neglected or forgotten its
duty, and the cause was left to the efforts of those who took an
interest in the welfare of the human race and the country. It
was difficult in the present state of the people of this country,
and the present artificial state of society. that the subject
should be taken in hand by the Government, except in the
form of an inquiry. The experiment of the model prison at
Pentonville had wonderful y answered the benevolent inten-
tions of those who sanctioned its formation. He was
of opinion that the experiment should be first tried by
the exertions of a body of associated individuals who
would be enabled to come before Parliament with a case of
successful experiment, which would necessarily I- ave its due
weight. There was a benevolent individual in this
country named Mr. Ttrright, of Manchester, who had
taken in hand no less than 90 criminals sentenced to
various terms of imprisonment, and subjected them of their
own free will to a course of instruction in useful industry, and
he had been the blessed means of restoring to the country, to
the Church, and to society no less than sixty-three of them. If
one benevolent man could effect so much by his exertions, what
could be done by a well-matured scheme carried out by the
Government of a Christain country?
After a few words from Lord LYTTELTON, which did
not reach the gallery,
CORN LAWS.

Lord COMBERMERE presented a petition from a county
meeting of Cheshire against the corn-laws.
Lord DELANIERE was well acquainted with the opinions
of the inhabitants of the county of Cheshire. and believed that
they were generally in favour of the Bill before the House.
He supported the Bill, because he believed it would be a great
public benefit, and would be far from inflicting any injury.
He did not creeit that it would interiere with and of their
established institutions, as it had been asserted. If he con-
sidered that it would, he would be far from supporting it.
Viscount COMBERMERE—As to what the Noble Lord
said that it was a very popular Bill with the county of Lanca-
shire he could only say that such was not the case, but the
Noble Lord must have taken his opinions from Stock-
port or that part of the county, as Le could
state that the contrary was the fact in other parts
of the county, where he was intimately acquainted,
and where large meetings of the tenant-farmers had expressed
their opinions against it.
Lord DEL AMERE was not aware that such had been the fact

(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock,
SOUTH YORKSHIRE COAL RAILWAY AND
CANAL BILL.
Lord MORPETH, on the motion for the consideration of
the report on this Bill, moved that the Bill be recommitted to
the former Committee, and that :the Committee have leave to
sit and proceed on Monday next at one o'clock. The Noble
Lord, at eonsiderable length, stated his reason why he thought
the House ought to agree to the recommittal of the Bill. All
the considerable coal owners in the district were in faiour of
the proposed line
Mr. B. DENISON seconded the raotion. He believed
that if the present Bill had not been included in a group, it
would have passed as an unopposed Bill, as there was not a
single landowner on the line who objected to it. He was
greatly astonished that the South Yorkshire line had been
thrown out ; and he trusted that the Bill would be re-commit-
ted, for the Committee to consider their former verdict.
Lord G. SOMERSET said he did not mean to oppose the
motion of the Noble Lord ; and after his statement, and that
of his Hon. Friend, he really thought that a case had been
made out for the re-committal of the Bill. He wished, how-
ever, to have the debate on the motion postponed, as it would
be more satisfactory to have the opinion of the Committee as
to their decision before it was submitted for their re-con.
sideration.

Mr. S. WORTLEY was of opinion that the rejection of
the Bill by the was a most extraordinary proceeding.
After a few words from Mr. H. BERKELEY,
Mt. EN T WISLE thought that the general business of the
House, more particularly as connected with railways, was eon-
ducted in a very slovenly manner. He was acquainted with
the district through which the line would pass, and the Com-
mittee had thought proper to throw it out as insufficient to
supply the wants of the public. He objected to the recom-
mittal of the Bill, as the Committee had already given their
decision.

Lord SEYMOUR—Vas a Member of the Committee, but
was in a minority with his hon. colleagues ; if the Bill was
sent back it was of course agreeable to his opinions, but he
thought there would he no benefit in doing so.
111 r. SHAW thought the House should not send the Bill
back to the same Committee. He did not think any good
would result from such a course.

Mr. C. WOOD considered this railway was one in which no
jobbing at all had taken place. He thought it would be a pity
that a railroad got up iu so honest a manner should be thrown
out. He thought the Hill ought to be recommitted.
Mr. ENTWISLE rose to explain.
Lord G. SOMERSET made some remarks, which were in-
ant ible in the gallery.
Mr. R. YORKE thought if they allowed the Bill to be
recommitted, they would open a bad system of jobbery.
Lord MORPETH said, that after what had fallen from the.,
Chairman of the Committee, he felt called upon to divide the
House.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—
For the re-committal of the Bill 4l
Against it
Majority ..
Mr. GREENE moved, on further consideration of the re
port on the Frilford (Berks) Inclosure Bill, to move that the
Standing Order, No. 121, as far as relates to the amendmen►s
hereinafter named, be suspended :—Clause 15, page 7, line 11.
to leave out " they," and insert "he." Clause 90, page 37, line
9, to leave out " plain or uestamped "—Agreed to.
WAKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAIL-
WAY ( METHLEY, ASKERN, AND OKENSHAW
BRAN CHES. )
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES moved the rejection of this
Bill upon the third reading. His constituents were strongly
adverse to the line, and the promoters of the Bill had not en-
deavoured to remove any of the objections which they enter-
tained towards it.

Capt. BERNARD said that the gentlemen in question had
every opportunity of appearing before the Committee and
making that statement but they failed to do so. and the
Committee of course came to the decision which
had been reported to the House. He was sure that
if they were to have the decision, of the Committee
overturned upon the statements of Gentlemen after the sit-
tings of the Committee, there would be no end to their labours.
He could assure the House that if such decisions were to be
reversed in that manner he would not sit on a committee on
any condition.

Captain CONOLLY said that the Bill had been agreed to
at a public meeting of the rate-payers, and he saw no reason
why it should not pass.—( Hear, hear. )
After a few words from Lord MORPETH,
Air. MILNES said that after the explanation of the
Hon. Gentleman behind him (Colonel Connoly) he should not
persevere with his amendment, but leave with his constituents,
if they were so inclined, to prosecute their case in another
place.
The amendment having accordingly been withdrawn, the
Bill was read a third time and passed.

The following reports were received and agreed to :—Air-
drie and Cuatbridge Waterwork, ; Caledonian Railway (Dum-
fries Branch) ; Caledonian Railway (Dund'van Branch) ;
Caledonian Railway (Langholm Branch) ; Earl of Ble*sing.
ton's Estate Bill; Forth and Clyde Navigation and Bowling
Bay Improvement; Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway;
Newcastle and Berwick Railway ; Newcastle and Darlington
Junction Railway (Durham and Sunderland Railway and
Wearmoutl: Dock Purchase and Branches) ; North British
Railway ( Carlisle Extension) ; Northumberland and Lanca-
shire Junction Railway ; Wakefield, Pontefract, anti Guole
Railway, and Post, &c. of Goole ; Wear Dock Railway.
REPORTS.

The following reports were considered and adapted:—
Fri!ford (Berke) Enclosure;
,Glasgow Southern Terminal
Railway; Newmarket and Chesttrford Railway; Oxford,
Sr. Helen's Canal
and Canal ( Newton
to Crewe, with Branches) ; 1
andorceaasiiewra,
yan; ds‘h%:roilpvsehrihr
ea ment
onn, Railway;Riwa,s
eovil Market and Fairs (by
Order) ; Yorkshire and Glasgow Union Railway (to be con-
sidered).

for the very arduous duties they had performed.—(Hear.)
This motion has greatly emanated from the reports of that
Commissioner ; when he said this, he did not mean it to be
understood, that the many recommendations made by the
Commissioners had been entirely dealt with. But it
was not because there were not other means brought
forward, or those recommended, that they might not
be brought forward at a future time. This question was nut
quite new to the House, for it had been fully argueti by the
press and other great authorities of this country, so that it
was pretty well understood. This being the case, it
would be troubling the House to bring forward fresh argu-
ments in support of the policy of this question. He
would therefore avoid touching on such topics as did not
immediately bear on the question before the House. No one
would deny that this was a most difficult subject for legislation,
and it would also be admitted to be as delicate as it was
difficult.

[LEFT SPEAKING.j

THE LATE POPE GREGORY XVI.

(From the Constitutionnel of June 9.)
The death of Gregory XVI. is an important event; as well
for Italy as for all Europe. Religious questions of grave im-
port are pending at this moment, and the change of Pontiff,
and consequently of the Cardinal Secretary of State, may be
the source of new difficulties between the Court of Rome and
the European Governments. With respect to Italy, this so
ill-timed a death may give rise to new insurrections, for dis-
content is general from Papal misgovernment, and the agita-
tion of the public mind increases from day to day. It will be
remembered that in 1831, when Gregory XVI. ascended the
Pontifical throne, a revolution broke out in central Italy,
and that the movement extended in a few days over al: the
Roman states. Austria soon interfered, and the occupati. n
of the country by foreign troops prevented a revolution,
but the causes of complaint continued to exist. These
were so evident, that even the representatives of the
great Powers deemed them well-founded, and on the
21st of May, 1831, they delivered to Cardinal Bernetti, the
new Secretary of State, the celebrated " memorandum "
containing the political and aaministrative reforms which
Gregory XVI. was advised to adopt. The Court of Rome
promised those reforms, and it is well known how she kept
her promise. Fresh disturbances arose, and as a conse-
quence Austria again interfered, and decided France on the
occupation of Ancona. The French Ministry had then for
President Casimir Perier, who planned the expedition to
Ancona, not only with a view to couaterbilancing the power
of Austria in Italy, and of securing the independence of
the Roman States, but of also furAng the Pope to introduce
into his government " real and positive ameliorations," and
of a nature to place the safety of the Holy See upon a more
stable foundation than that of a periodical repression, and to
secure the satisfaction of the people by complying Kith their
legitimate wants and adopting enlightened views. The
Papal Government was, however, re-established in the dis-
turbed provinces without any anieflorations. Despite the
promises of the Pontiff, the words of Casimir Perier—not-
withstanding the solemn act of the Ancona people in 1832
when asking for institutions and reforms—notwithstanding
petitions and protests from those same communal and pro-
vincial councils, consisting of persons appointed by the
Court of Rome itself—from that period, and especially since
Cardinal Lambruschini has been in power, the Papal Go-
vernment has followed a retrograde movement. Thus, in-
surrections have.pretty rapidly followed one another in the
legations. The disturbances in the province of Bologna in
1840 are still fresh, as also those at Rimini and other parts
of Romagna last year. The patriots of Romagna published
at that time a manifesto, in which they set forth the cause of
the revolt, as also the reforms wished for by the people.
The moderation and the justice of these demands were ad-
mitted by every one; still the Court of Rome has obstinately
persisted in refraining from applying any remedy to that
state of things. The disorder of the administration has con-
tinued. The financial deficit has increased. Military com-
missions, political tribunals, ecclesiastical jurisdictions, the
Inquisition, have been upheld; consequently discontent is
universal, persecutions are unceasing, the prisons always
full, and the number of emigrants increasing. The evil
is so great in the Roman states, that resignation is no
longer possible. And if the powers of Europe, who
value so much the maintenance of peace, do not compel
the Court of Rome to adopt the institutions pointed
out by the memorandum of the 21st of May, 1831, as
also the manifesto
.of September, 1845, another and more
serious insurrection. may be expected. Such a movement
would, no doubt, be favourable to the views of Austria,
which power would be glad to have a pretext for a fresh
occupation of the legations. But will France suffer such
an occupation ? Will she not rather seek to prevent it, by
forcing, as Casimir Perier said, the Pope to introduce in
to his government " real and positive improvements, of a
nature to place the safety of the Holy See upon a more stable
foundation than that of a periodical repression ?" We shall
see whether Ministers will this time lose sight of the dignity
and interests of the country, and if it will forget what the
most influential members of the Cabinet said in the debate
which took place in the Chamber of Deputies respecting the
evacuation of Ancona.

Meanwhile the part which M. Rossi, the French Ambas-
sador at Rome, has to play is most important under existing
circumstances. It is well known that it is in the conclave
that will open on the 11th inst. that the Ambassadors of the
Catholic Powers bring into action all their means in sup-
port of their influence, either seeking to raise to the Pope-
dom a cardinal of their choice, or obtaining the exclusion of
one who might be displeasing to their Governments. It is
said that the Cardinal who has the most chance of being
elected Pope is Cardinal Fransoni, a Genevese, born in 1775,
and the present Prefect of the Propaganda. He is said to be
a partisan of the Jesuits.

(From the SQcle.)
The Benedictine friar whom the conclave of 1831 elected
Pope is dead. The encyclical letter in which he co❑demned
the liberty of the press—the cruel acts of repress!on which
have desolated the Roman provinces, and which were so easy
to calm by the introduction of reforms—the welcome given
to the Emperor Nicholas—aed, lastly, the odious letter cen-
suring the etThrts which the unfortunate Poles made against
their oppressors—such are the acts which attach themselves
to this reign, and which, in our judgment, do not suffice to
recommend his memory. In our opinion, the late Pope was
one of those men who, notwithstanding some eminent quali-
ties, was adapted rather to diminish the influence of religion,
than to raise it in the eyes of the people. He might have
been an excellent monk, but he possessed nut the soul of a
Sovereign capable of protecting the weak against the
powerful. The election of a new Pope is not a question of
small importance; and the means of influencing this election
will not fail France, who can count upon the co-operation of
Spain, and would p,,ssess, we are convinced, the good
wishes of the Courts of Turin and Naples. But all will de-
pend on the instructions that are forwarded from Paris to
Bresson, to the Duke of Montebello, and to Count Rossi.
Would the French Government dare to advance an opinion,
to support a candidate opposed to Austria and the Jesuits?
We can hardly think so. N. Guizot would not wish to run
the risk of displeasing Prince Metternich in an affair which
concerns, it is true, the greatest interests of France and
Europe, but which, however, does not compromise his Minis-
terial existence.

(From Galignani's Messenger.)
The Church of Rome is now rendering to the deceased
Pope its last offices, which are called . the Nowen Dinh,
because they last nine days. The Cardinals, formally as•
sembled, exercise the sovereign authority and are making
preparations for the great act of the election of a successor to
the late Pontiff, who must be one of their body. The
diplomatists are admitted to short audiences. Each Minister
after the usual compliments ventures to give his private
recommendations, but always in general terms, waiting till
his letters of credence are to be enounced, and which must
be addressed to the Sacred College, which receives them at
the grated wicket of the Conclave. In the evening of the
day on which the Cardinals enter into the Conclave they
proceed there in procession, chanting the Von, Creator.
During this evening the members of the diplomatic body
may enter the Conclave, and even the cells or apartments of
the Cardinals. At the closing in of the night an official
walks through the corridors ringing a bell, as the signal of

CONVICT SYSTEM, NORFOLK

ISLAND.

The following are portions of the copies or extracts of
correspondence respecting the convict system adminis-
tered in Norfolk Isl And, under the superintendence of
Captain Maconochie, R.N.. in continuation of papers
ordered by the House of Lords to be printed the 23d of
February, 1846, just issued by order of their Lordships'
House:
COPY OF A LETTER FROM CAPTAIN MACONOCHIE, R.N.,
To JAMES STEPHEN, ESQ.

London, April 2, 1846.
Sir,—The inclosed paper refers to certain economical
statements contained in the correspondence respecting
the convict system administered in Norfolk Island, re-
cently laid belore the 'louse of Lords.

I should be extremely obliged by your bringing it
under the notice of Mr. Secretary Gladstone, with my
earnest request that it may be added as a supplement to
the other papers so printed.
(Signed) A. MACONOCHIE.
NOTE ON CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING THE CONVICT

Si STEM ADMINISTERED ON NORFuLK ISLAND.
On all points of system and discipline involved in these
papers, my explanations are in themselves so full that I
do not think it necessary to add a word more in regard
to them ; but I now see, for the first time, a variety
of economical statements on which some comment is ne-

ceEsary.
In his letter, Mr. D. C. G. Miller inveighs strongly
against the experse of my ticket of leave establishment,
and contends that faith was broken in regard to it, by
its not being required to pay for supplies issued to it in
" the produce of labour." But my instructions with
respect to it were, that the men should pay fur their sup-
plies "in money or labour "—not in " the produce of
labour" at all.

So far from the tiehet of le ave establishment having
been expensive, it was directly economical ; and this,
Sir George Gipps, in h's report almost admits. Labour-
ing in Government employ, precisely as other prisoners
did, they were, under the arrangements, entitled to at
least the same rations ; yet my accounts, still in my
possession, show that in eighteen months during which
the system was maintained 512 ticket of le4ve men
drew less than their rations to the extent of 666/. 133.4 d.
In his letter, Mr. 1). C. G. Miller states, that in the
eighteen months preceding August, 1840, he had re-
ceived 25,000 bushels of maize from the- Island, but that
subsequeitly its crops were never equal to its own con-
sumption. I shall presently show some reasons for
questioning even the accuracy of these statements ; but,
meanwhile, I observe that in March and April, 1840,
603 English prisoners arrived on the island, in addition
to its previous bond population, and that the same sur-
plus production could nut thus reasonably be-looked for
Mr. Miller states, that such was the decrease in the
produce of the island in 1842 that in the item of provi-
sions alone there was an increase of 10,0001. ill it% ex-
penditure. Yet Sir George Gipps gives a return, which
must have come from the Couonissariat, of the actual
expenditure during six years, from 1837 to 1842 inclu-
sive ; and from this it appears, that while th_e expense 2
654
fur pro7isions in 1839 was 18,978 t, and for 1640, 2o ,465 t•
an
in-
it was in 1842 only 16,790/. ; showing, instead o
crease of 10,0004 au actual decrease of i
from 3,0001. to
4,0004
In this return there is no notice toaaketuheof6tihaead, which
quantity
of fresh meat turned into store(lan doubled.
within my four years wiCsmlftrethe large return of wool
hide
No notice is here takens of
also caused. Of the first in
particular the
and sheep and ox , t
transmission became at last very great ;
and by superior careb
led. taken in washing its price was Ist
ou
terly nearly doubled. This was stated to me in a letter
expressly written by the Colonial Secretary on the
subject.
With all these errors and omissions, notwithstanding
my asserted extrisagance, the, charge per tiei,d of Pri-
soners in my time is very Ilttl more by this table than
in the preceding years. But fiJr the enormous credit
giyeti to' 108, which I cannot help thinkinf as cleric

error, for it does not tally at all with the official returns
of crops in my possession, it would be even lower; and
it is nearly 51. per head (41. 15s. sd) lower in 1842, the
year 01 my severe drought, than in 1839, the year before
larrived.
I am very far from indifferent to economical results;
on the contrary, apart from their own value, I am
persuaded that, under a good system, in a good
locality, they will affixd generally an almost
exact measure of moral results also ; for the
virtues of order, method, punctuality, energy, and
good judgment, which realise good returns, will, on a
persuasive principle, also make good servant while ob-
taining them. No school of training can be better for
previously idle and dissolute men thau one of succe sful
industrial exertion in which they have been induced to
take a voluntary part. But on Norfolk Island I was
most pecularly circumstanced. I had to organise a new
system, and endeavour to revive long forgotten feelings
in the minds of all around. In all my operatlons I was
jealously watched, harshly judged and reported on, and
perpetually hampered by limitations on my proposed
measures. If my system could have failed in any cir-
cumstance, it would have failed in these ; yet it did not
fail, and Sir George Gipps himself bears testimony to
this.

In 1839, the year before I landed on Norfolk Island,
the proportion of cases tried at the police court was, to
the bond population, as •604 to 1 ; during my tour
years it was as -363, 353, .347, and -473 respectively.
In 1844, alter I left, it was -623 ; and in the first eight
months of 1845, the latest period to which I have re-
turns, it was as .543. Again, in 1839, while the old
severity was yet unabated, 512 men were sent to Sydney
on commuted sentences, of whom 20 were re-convicted
within the year. During the four years I sent up 688
men un. er the circumstances, of whom only 17 were re-
convicted in the whole time ; and of 240 who were sent
up about the period of my departure (Feb. 1844). in the
Jan. following none had been re-convicted, though three
were in gaol for trial, and have since been found guilty.
Of 538 first-convicted men whom I took with me to Van
Diemen's Land, on the Ist of July last, after a lapse of
sixteen months, not one had been re• transported; only
five out of 330 ticket of leave men had lost their tickets
(the remaining 325, amid all the social difficulties
there, respectably maintaining themselves) ; including
these five, only fifteen were under any punishment ;
and of 209 pass-holders 132 were in private service,
a greater proportion by a tenth than of pass-holders
locally trained. Yet these are the men who were slan-
derously said on Norfolk Island to have been spoilt and
rendered unfit for labour.

When these results, then, are compared with the
means at my disposal, I think that it will be impossible
to doubt the sound practical character of the principles
of management, that, after much experience, I seek to
introduce. And amidst the difficulties now besetting the
management and disposal of transported criminals, and
the doubts entertained by many of the wisdom of our
whole system of secondary punishments, they might be
considered worthy of a little extra charge, had it been
incurred. Yet, practically, they cost nothing ; and, be
yond all doubt, had my proceedings been unfettered,
they would have been combined with even signal eco-
nomy. A. MACONOCHIE.