The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-14 00:00:00

4, 1846:

PRICE sr.

rating the benefits to be derived from this railway besides the actual
saving of money to the people of the district. Not only would agri-
cultural produce and manure be carried by this railway In immense
quantities, bat there are also large quarries of excellent building
stone, minerals, coals, and lime. Of the latter article, immense
quantities would.-be used for agricultural . produce, if coal could be
obtained to prepare it. There were in this district 2,000,000 acres cf
tillage, and, each acre requiring two tons of lime, would require for
the whole district 400,000 tons of that article. We could effect an
average saving in the price of coals throughout the district of 10A,
per ton, or a total saving of atlo,ooo/.
Mr. Sergeant WRANCTIAM, after some further remarks on the I
general merits of the line, said the question for their Lordships to
consider was, whether they would allow the scheme proposed by his
Learned Friend, to give that by a branch, as from the Eastern
Counties line, which required a direct communication. Their line,
then, the London and York, was the trunk line, and the direct com-

numication was the one most neces,ary to the accommodation of the
country. It would be shown, in evidence, that even twenty miles
would make a difference in the carriage of coals. inasmuch as it would
increase the expense, and consequently affect the public in the
markets. Again the Eastern Counties scheme propose i to j.-in
that by a branch south of linntingdon, which would cost actually
more than the proposed construction by the London and York line,
which had the greatest of all reconunendations, namely ,that of being
a direct communication. Last year, it was beneath the notice of the
Eastern Counties Company to make a line south of Huntingdon, but
this year they thought it of the greatest consequence. Ile was in a
condition to prove by evidence, that the scheme of the Eastern
Countie, would cost as much within 100,0001. as the direct line.
and
dw oinlodrtkbhee
promoters
.te
nheti r.
fL,otvitiderseslipit
worth that
say a y
mode wahoteaft.ahttrlciari
transit.
amount,
irst
an not the e
t 0
giveunderstood
tLondonlie
ictotuontbrey the opinion of his Learned Friend (Mr. Austen) that the
case had not been halt-beard last year
length
a Committee el the House
taken
Commons.keato
have Hh
heard
acould h
eh
iwfhiatehearnha:if
been half
it would have
t
(Great
not tell
,ahtictilleasmtederietsigalift3;idiaa3.a.
days.—((.teat
case had laughter.)lee half heard in
lie
heard,
anduld
proved by the report of that Committee to the
laiaaiirlidilaufliairlly,lyt,lCNias
was
House of Commons. lie viewed this opposition as one which if
effectual, would place in the hands of an Lion. Giehnetsletmrasisii,,efeotr
whom he (Mr. Sergeant Wrangham) had the very highest
and whohad already nearly one-half of the railways Of Englanii
at his command, the present great trunk line, which
gave a communication from the metropolis to York, and thence on to
Scotland. He saw the Hon. Member sitting by the table, and be
could assure him that the evidence which should be adduced would en-
tirely do away with such a result.—(Laughter.) The Learned Coun-
sel, after some further remarks upon the traffic and general merits
of theline, concluded by saying that he would call such evidence as
would fill up any omissions of his in his address to them.
Mr. J. Blake was then called, and examined as to the probable
amount of traffic from Heatlitleld, which consisted principally of
manure for agricultural purposes. He was satisfied that the line was
one which would confer a great advantage on the public; lie was
sure it would increase the trade of that town, and there was no doubt
of the traffic becoming doubled when this line of railway was con-
structed. The general feeling, indeed he might say the whole, feeling
of tLe public was in favour of the direct line of communication.
The witness was cross-examined by Mr. AUSTIN, but the Com-
mittee indicating their wish for an abridgment, the evidence was,
accordingly, materially curtailed.

Mr. Strong and Mr. Joshua Ranson were then called, and gave
similar evidence. The latter witness stated that the frequent mis-
management of the Eastern Counties Railway had occasioned much
inconvenience to the public by the great delays in the transit of the
goods.

- Mr. Whitbread, of South•hlll, examined by Mr. PAGETT—Is a
large landowner. Could state that Covent-garden Market, and other
large markets in London, were principally .iupplled with vegetables
from Bedford, and the greatest difficulty was experienced by the
present mode of conveyance. There was but one feeling in favour
of the London and York line, for it had been started before anything
like a railway mania had sprung up, and it was looked upon by the
country gentlemen, all through that part with which he was ac-
quainted, as got up by the most respectable persons, for accommo-
dating the country,
The witness was cross-examined by Mr. AUSTIN, after which the
Committee adjourned to 11 o'clock to-morrow (Thursday).

HOUSE (iF COMMONS.
GROUP XIII.
Thus Committee met to-day, at twelve o'clock—Sir TV. Clay in the
chair. Other Members present—Earl Jcrmyn, Mr. P. Ainsworth,
and Mr. Curteis.

CALEDONIAN (EXTENSION AND
BRANCHES).

The further evidence in support of this Company, and rkg'abillt the
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle scheme, was proceeded with.
Mr. William Pare, examined by Mr. HOPE—He had been engaged
for ten or twelve years in calculating railway traffic. For the last
three years he had been repeatedly in Scotland—all over the country
—but especially in the southern district. He had taken the traffic of
the Caledonian in 1844, and also that of the rival line, his object being
to calculate whether there was a probability of through traffic to
support a second line. The present Dumfries scheme was similar in
its course to the one of last year. He took great pains to colleet in-
formation by referring to official tables at the stamp office, the several
coach offices, &c., and also by posting parties to take the traffic'. Ile
had also, last winter, gone over the district a second time, wilt a
view to the Caledonian Extension, so that he had gone over the route
of both lines minutely. The first time he estimated the throtigh
traffic In passengers and goods along the Caledonian line from Glasgow
to Carlisle at 89,3741., and that from Edinburgh to Carlisle at 20,948;
18s. 10d. This was the traffic both ways. This return he submitted to the
Committee last year. The through traffic along the Nethsdale line
he estimated, to and from Edinburgh and Glasgow and Dumfries, at
7,8111. l Is. Id. t and from Dumfries fro Carlisle at 6,719/„ making a
total through traffic on the Dumfries line of 14,530; 16s. 10d, The
total through traffic en the Caledonian scheme he estimated at
124,8561. 4s. 3d. The local traffic on the same line he set denll for
passengers, goods, Minerals; &c., 191,158/. I3s. 5d., makipg a. total
on the Caledonian of 926,03121. 17s. 04. For the through traffic on the
Caledenifin Haet there was tio doubt ,that the Nett-Male line would
be a digest eelliPethig line. SuPPosing the brethsdale line
to be sanctioned, and the Caledonian Dumfries branch re-
fused, then would the former lino take all the Dumfries
traffic, and one-half of the Glasgow traffic making the amount of
59,2181. This would leave the revenue of the Caledonian 166,8041
This estimate was of gross revenge. Deducting 47 t 4 per cent. on the
original Paginate, an amount of about 100,0001., then tllcre
would remain but 66,8041. lie went upon the caletil.,ll,)ll
of Mr. Locke, that with half traffic the apc4144...
working of the line would be nearly the same as if
there was no competing line. TWO would leave rust e per cent. on
the capital of the Company, 2,100,000/. If the Ilawiek cx.,,„sion was
carried out then would there be not only 4 CorOPCtittoll for the
traffic proper of Edinburgh, lint WO NA that of the north by
means of the Edinburgh awl Northern. From his inquiries he was
satisfied that the local traffic would neither support the Nettesdale
nor the Caledonian schemes. The traffic tables of the Dumfries line
last year showed an estimate of 128,510/. This was 58,595/. for
through traffic, and 69,915/. for local traffic. This year, for their
scheme as a local line, they set down the traffic at 102,000/. The
scheme last year was the same as the one this year, only it extended
to Kilmarnock. The increase of local traffic was about 32,0001 In
place of the portion of last year, from Kilmarnock to Cull-mock,
which was struck off, there was the Crawick branch, but it went
through a district almost totally destitute of population. The Kil-
marnock part struck off was one of the best portions of last year's
scheme for local traffic and a considerable reduction should be
made on the account. With regard to the passengers, ho did not
agree with the evidence 'of the Dumfries Company. lie knew
something of the standard coach, and he had examined
its money settlements and had estimated its passengers. Ile
considered the number of passengers very much overstated.
The passengers, from the pains lie had taken te ascertain the real
traffic, the an-ping should not have been set down at near the num-
ber stated. The same applied to the Dumfries coach. lie considered
their tables also faulty with regard to the traffic by chaises, gigs,
40,1 this lid reference to table 54 Which instead of being set down
at 8,1971, should be but 2,7501. The principle which he adopted,
which he believed a sound one, was t..) take only the half of those
seen in private vehicles, whereas the Dumfries Company took credit
for the whole. With regard to table No. 0, the Ayrshire and Fleet-
wood passengers, he considered that much overstated. Ho was cer-
tain a considerable portion of Glasgow through passengers were in-
cluded in the table. lie considered also that on the Ayrshire
traffic by the Glasgow steamers was exaggerated. The same applied
to the Dumfries and Annan and Liverpool steamers. Where the
steamers ran at very low fares as here, he did not assume for the
steerage passengers. lie only calculated for the cabin passengers,
but they took all, and added 100 per cent. for increase. Iu table 7,
instead of 6,7231. for general merchandise by land, the amount
should be reduced by 2,1761. This was independent of the 50 per
cent. put down for increase. General merchandise by water was also
much exaggerated, both that taken by steamers and sailing Vegfee:S.
He had not only exaggerated the quantity, but fixed the rates too
high, The total deductions from all the items in their tables he esti.
mated to be, on passengers, 19,0621. 19s. ; and goods and merehan-
hdlasde making a total reduction of 23,0011. 18s. sd, This
n3O93Brella. tlio9ns..3tdo.;reductions on account of minerals, cattle, and
sheep, or tile drains, to which he could not speak,
The witness was cross-examined at some length by Mr. MARTIN.
He admitted, however, that some reduction should be made in the
amount of traffic which lie had calculated the Nithedaie scheme
would take from the Dumfries and F,dinburgh traffic, as some slight
error had been made in his calculation ; still the deductiOnwould not
much of the sum of 59,2181, which he had estimated the com-
pletion of a second line would take from tits Caledonian traffic.
Mr. HOPE was going on with the re-examination of the witness, in
order to clear up certain points respecting the Edinburgh and Dum-
fries traffic, which the Cenunittee thought had been affected by the
cross-examination, when, at the suggestion of the chairman, the
further consideratian of it was postponed till to-morrow at twelve
o'clock.

GROUP XLIV.

The same members of the Committee were present at twelve
o'clock, as on former occasions. Lord Palmerston again took the
chair.

The unfinished case of the
CLITHEROE =NOTION.
was proceeded with.
of 1131 Bd.;
rnEsettp;mwchee'do tedhenwsittia'ttehed
tphaarttl ythllenci
tedhercor cross-examination
s Junction,s-e_xam iiown
.
The solicitor to
the East Lancashire line, would shortly he amalgamated,
taineEast
agree-
ment being already made to that effect
Lancashire line was also the solicitor to the Clitheroe Junction. In
very unwitting t
admission which the witness appeared
referred entirely
fact, the East Lancashire Company were
ination of this witness
The rest of the cross-exampublic.
Mr. general matters, and was entirely promoting thi5011,17,11,,,kt
Mr. James Thompson, a cotton p
morn particularly in respect of the
evidence in favour of the liniet,rmea general
coal,e
the
lime,
and
the
andcotton
tstill it director.
adroifnuCtenlirint hletrroeCseit.: inigfec'etat'ha apyue
one of the
provisional directors, is
for Clitheroe, gave gener a.
Mr. It. F ort, ono of the late atetnbera
evidence in favour of the line, similar to that of the last witness
This witness is the owner of a seat near Morton Hall, the house of
the petitioner, Mr. Taylor. This seat is shown on the large model
put in by Mr. Taylor, and representing Morton Hall, with the
park, farm, and farm-land adjoining, and also the several adjacent
seats, including Mr. Fort's. This model shows the property as it is,
and as it will be if this line be made, the embankments, viaduct, &c.,
being represented by moveable pieces of box-wood, and the surface
of the ground being represented by similar moveable pieces of wood
wherever there are to be cuttings. It was made by Messrs. Filn-
tuft of Keswick. The model, however, with all the care that ap-
pears to have been taken in its construction, does not truly repre-
sent the ground, the vertical scale being 100 feet to the inch,
While the horizontal scale is 198 feet to the inch ; the consequence
of which is, that every mound. hillock, cutting, embankment, house,
or shed, appears to be twice its actual height in proportion to its
length and breadth. Thus the embankments, &c., are very much
exaggerated. _ _

Mr. Fort was cross-examined at length by Mr. BAINES and Mr.
MENRIVALE, the former, on the part of the competing line—the
Blackburn, Clithero, and North Western Junction and the latter on
the part of the petitioner,
_

Mr. William Green, a coal owner in the vicinity of Accrington,
gave evidence as to the superiority of the Wigan over the Paddihiin
coal. The seam was deeper at Wigan than at Paddiham. Although
Wigan was treble the distance from Blackburn that Paddiham was,
the Wigan colliers could compete with the Paddiham colliers, in the
Blackburn market. The proposed line would greatly improve the
trade of both places.
Mr. Shuttleworth, of Gorthorpe, near Paddiham, and Mr. Ashton,
of Downham-hall, near Clitheroe, gave general evidence, with some
statistical details of no public interest.
Mr. Christopher Lawson, corn-merchant, of Paddiham, and of
Whalley, gave general evidence in reference to the corn-trade. He
would save 6501. per annum by the improved communication which
would be afforded by this line, and a sin filar saving would be made
by other corn-dealers in the same county.
The Committee then rose at four o'clock precisely.

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