The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

!
I

ascertained by experience. That experience he believed he had
attained, and the truth which resulted was, that the !and had
been bought with the perfect understanding that it was
bought with the incusehraneee upon it. (Hear.) But
the argument was as to what was the amount of the
charges upon the land, hut he must at the same time state what
his feeling was respecting these various declarations. For him-
self, he allowed that he was dusted with the declaratien of Mr.
Maculloch. He would adduce the evidence of Mr. Maculloch,
than whom no higher authority could be adduced. The Noble
Lord then read a statement from Macullech, to show that the
facts were as he had stated.
The Earl of CL A R ENDON—What is the date?
Lord ASHBURTON—The date is 1814. —( Leughter.) A
mistake had evidently been made, but as Lord John Russell
stated, that mistake was fatal. ( Cheers.) Lord John
Russell had proposed a fixed duty of es. a quarter. Whether
that was right or wrong, it was perfectly evident that the agri-
Culture ought to be protected, and that the demand ought tobe
rendered independent of the supply from foreign competition.
But it was thought that by a little stimulation the parties would
be made to provide the supply. Now the question was, whether
the farmer could be stimulated to p-ovide the supply, without
ksaign interference, and the rule used was, that as they knew
What could be got out of a bad horse by a pair
°f spurs, they s'iotild use the stimulus of the spur in
order to ascertain wdat they could obtain from that source.
From what he could understand, he would venture to assert
that the returns would give the valid price of the produce, but
it appeared that the prise depended on the value of the produce,
Ind that when the returns were below certain amounts the
slumber inclined to obtain farms was such that there was no
seduction of rent wt en the farms were let. He thought that the
sinister was a bold titan who would venture to assert that corn
Fuld not be prod seed on the continent at a cheaper rate,
when of equal quality, than it could be produced in this country.
From a return of the several markets, it appeared that where
there were equal charges on the land, there were also equal
Price& And when the Noble Lord cited this principle, he
might well adduce the supply of food from Norfolk. But there
was another from Prussia. But what was the statement?
^IIY, that Prussia and England were on equal terms, although
In attempt had been made to place England and Ireland on
the same level. The Noble Lord had said that what was a pro-
tection to England was a protection to Ireland also. In the
latter country it appeared that the charges were laid upon
the land, amounting to 2d. per acre. This included the land-
tax, the poor-law. and every possible charge. Yet he was
bound to acknowledge that there was only a problematical
statement to this effect, and it should be recollected that it was
a general understanding that the manure produced on a farm
should be consumed upon it, and that by this means the whole
of the advantages obtained from the farm would be expended
on the soil of which it was composed. It should be recollected
that this land could not be improved, or the land preserved,
Without the value of the stock it had upon it being taken
into account. This was the great deficiency, and no law could
Possibly provide a remedy, as he would contend. The next
Popular error to which he would allude was that which would
snake the price of labour to be apparently independent of the
Price of food, and that as bread was cheap the price of labour
Wpnld be low. To this he would only adduce the information
Zbiathe Parliamentary reports, and to these he might add the
ntage of his own knowledge. It appeared from the reports
of theof Parliamentary inquiries that the labourers in the north
EuropeHe bad
were in the habit of enjoying meat once a week.
es
ee:nad heard that there was a
report that in Ireland eggs
Acre sold at sixpence a dozen, but the grand difficulty was to
assertthaaitn where the sixpence was to come from. The consequence
eggs were scarce.—(Cheers.) Now, it appeared by
the
simple allusion that the price of food did depend upon
flecfpriee of labour, and that the elements of food, pi pulation,
labour are the main elements of income, and that on in-
,..vo_tnee the price of food depended. If they were to take a
PeugT 1. agricultural district, as for instance the east of Lin-
the,: 'res they would have a clear reason for the grounds of
hreeonelusion. He was aware that some objection might be
t to this, but thus much he would assert, that where
hrice ands were cultivated by manual labour there the
ear s ef, labour might be readily ascertained.—( Hear,
they) a gradual means were used he believed that
deveeepld be no difficulty, but where the price ot labour was
'Ol as acne upon the produce of the soil, the price of wheat
Lords'lsi. main element of the consideration before their
ruled'' and that the remuneration of labour would
indu_. for some years to come by the reward which
wo„,l;eY was able to obtain for its exe-tions. What
i`lu be the immediate consequences of this measure?
isatia.hat the landlords of the country would suffer, and that
cutely throngs them the farmers, and ultimately the
that
..ers would be injured. That was the kind of language
suppothPse who were oepnsed to this measure held out ; aud
of ''°g, as he apprehended, that would be the result, he was
te„Pnini" that the language was completely justifiable. The
therst oft l
began to suffer a little, and then began to
or/ screw, and the labourer, not understanding this sort
Political economy, and being sanctioned by the Parliament,
';p'toted naturally resist any reduction of his wages, and resist
hYafattempts to deprive him of any portion of his necessaries.
the would be the operation of this Bill, always supposing that
porn, He
sanctioned the proposed alteration of the duties upon
Ren• He wished to address a few observations to the Right
incomes
Bench, that the clergy would be affected, and their
what
would be reduced—at least those of not a filed tenure.
hat had been stated by a Noble Lord on a former occasion was
quite true. That nothing could be more critical than the poli-
tical conduct of the parochial clergy of this country on the pre-
sent measure. If this measure was not intended to diminish
the price of corn, what then was the meaning of the Bill ?
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Very little foreign corn was ad-
Sifted except in times of scarcity. Every clergyman of the
Church of England would be reduced in his income, in the
Porportien of two-sixths, so that the man with 300/. a-year
Would hare his income reduced to 200/.—( Hear, hear.) And
et'een supposing the position of those who advocated this measure
the
true, and that no diminution in tithes would ensue, why
Life clergymen would be no better of.—(Hear, hear.) Their
sta_a,thhips must be perfectly well aware, that if they let the
set° Joto theo of their own hands, they virtually exposed them-
attacks of those without and left themselves Pcor-
cry
ele, defenceless. It was a mischievous thing to set up the
fortcheap bread, and that mockery of the poor man's com-
moroler n it was backed and supported by the advocacy of a
the mie.f the Crown.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") If
protectiolantrY make experiments at all, let them trifle with the
taniatie,o andof
if things of comparatively inferior import-
their they found the removal of protec-
ts_ minor articles were attended with advantage, then
coming Lordships' House would be more justified in
operation tthereesolution which would aanction the
resent measure. It was his belief that
datable
in` of
the country would always be found, mainly attri-
the eu to some difficulty in the means of circulation. When
of sh rrennY got into any difficulty it would cause nine:tenths
that e distress that mieht abound. He could show, in fact,
lei „ the distress which las existed in the manufacturing dis-
til epl,!„e°ulsl be distinctly traced to circumstances which had
Wool to do with the direction of the monetary system. He
Which call the attention of the House to the. probable effects
of the this measure would have on the colonies. The people
he et, Canadas were ready at a moment's notice to throw off
the Canadas
feel. English yoke. Their Lordships knew what the French
e; togs were and all that feeling of nationality the people of
ofnhaida Possessed. They were allied to France by ties
I°°d, and by a long formed connexion, and if the measure
We bloods
carried, it would, by rendering England dependent
hin, them for a supply of corn, render them
gePendent of ns, and give them an excuse for
Itiexing themselves and their interests to the power of
ft:lnce. That was the opinion of two French gentlemen,
le Capitaine and M. Paphen, who were high authorities.
off Lower Canadas the French influence was predominant
ri2.the inhabitants, and the British Government had no more
ila‘i?ott.!o that country than the French or any other continental
1:, possessed. It might, perhaps, be well to argue that this
t'ainre would be a benefit for all the world; but were they
ees_ become the advocates of the human race, and to be con-
pielequ:vith the affairs of all mankind? He thought the more
'tart course would he to be concerned with only our own
subject -( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl who proposed this
10,2 told the House that all Europe was going to fol-
siiiv e the example set them by the free-traders of England.
measure met with great praise and admiration,
of :every oiae said that it did not exaatly suit them. It was
le the mita' eof things that every country was t) assimi-
eand hold the same opinions with regard to these points.
And even let all the w irld be of one opinion with respect to
offree trade operations, he questioned very much whether
"olfl
it!le world would be any better for those opinion'.—(Cries
di • Hear, hear.") The entire c.f the civilised vvorld wrafs
funned into states, provinces, and kingdoms, placed under t
1t overnments,
have :mutual
was very desirable that, as fa:r as
sible, they should have mutual opinions on different points,
vent a general arnaleamation of interests. as it were, to pre.
be war, and conserve the good of mankind. What would
e:tthe result if the'principles of free trade could be universally
%blished ? This PcountPry might become a large manufac-
anrdLfgors_l°P, bnt its agricultural interests would be neglected,
their sleeves—this coun-
try ~...7ntgo.n countries would laugh
theraut7l e dependent on them for
in
nthe supply of food—at the
deitusrl4,,7oend destruction of boasted British. independence and the
trios of its interests. That whichwasddeesosirriapbtfloet
of
in.
d°l4tre was, that they should have every
resource; and
of international commerce, so that eachin
11.7"rees would not be left wholly dependent
ee; aristocracy of that House, and the great gentry in upon aintcsothoew,rin.
trY, would be interested in preserving
h° eh they had so long and so eminently flourished. If
the ptotec
the their Lordships should be of opinion, notwithstarnedttenog.
great prosperity which had attended the system of
sh.., teat the interests of the country require the concessionP of
With
Cherished opinions they would yield it, although, perhaps,
htl'i,l-"earegofrett,,heyceotawntirtyh. the hope that it would be for the
Bat do not let their Lordships think
that any such anticipated benefit would be derived from this
er that its consequence would tend in any
tee '4%1 interests. It was a great mistake to suppose that n.ny.
;:,,,,easure which had for its object the distraction of those print
i 5.74, which had raised the country to its present patamoun
attP_'°ll would result otherwise than in universal dissatisfaction
dower, who
for the authors of the measure.. (The Noble
dow", who throughout was almost inaudible in the gallery, sat
,rtitl_amidst loud cheering from all parts of the House.)
of thee Marquis of LAN DOWNS said he rose in that stage
nighte d bate, which was now the third, and he hoped the last
of the debate--( Cries of express his sentiments
Lion. He should protnis
for along time in the considera-
" No, no," and " Yes, yes")—
on the measure now under
°he them that he would not d tam them
he should be extreme] them
he was about to make, and
prevented giving his yoplinoFry that any Noble Lord should be
taken. The Noble Lord who
beforeh their final decision was
.(sh:di, just sat down need not be
very much alarmed that he
:)larquis of Lansdowne) was
going to enter into any eoon the "awful subject" of
posit cal economy, which h assertedfhadi, been so described by
en a young man, and
!eord John Russell twenty years ago,
before he held office under the Cro
Was represented as describing politicar
soap awful
kithen, and the Noble Lord nwilooolelayt Nle Lord
snaresented it to be an awful subject neju't sat down
(Lord
aAshburton)
4w that he was about to enter into any
r", that subject, except in as far as it was conneetectiwirtohf the
esent question. In rising, however, he would not
barea_nswering the Noble Lord (Lord Ashburton), to follow his
4,toeePt rather than his example in abstaining from entering
ttos, any subject that did not enter fully into the present clues_
1/;', and especially the consideration of the burdens on land.
tho:ould leave that subject—that most important subject--
tits, gls he could not view it in any other sense than as a ques-
retist°°f jus ice to the proprietors of land. His Noble Fi lent
el.ea ue
held awar o
e of
inione the opiwhich nions he
he (thad he Mnevearquris o
moref Lanstrongl sdowne)
serted p
tle, than when advising proceedings connected with hear, tquestion before their Lordships' House. (Hear,
Plorel
l But, important as was the subject, he im-
fie them to draw their attention from it now, and
rie`:h° that question before the House,
the greatest, if which his Noble
the s, ad so correctly described as one of not
eletetleatest subject that ever commanded their consideration.
seej,egte question which was now before them had been the
of tc:f debate and discussion for many years
.past in and
and arliament, and by assemblies in every district, town
sere, 'age in the country. The question, therefore, dial as-
rlninewhat of a new aspect, as presented to their Lord-
, sigetn Ain The question at the present time came before
' her Afn. the shape of a Bill that had r ceived the sanction of
1 inaierie"strs Government and likewise sanctioned by a
The oe
the other Heuse of Parliament.—( Hear, hear.)
'le Lord (Stanley), who has been absent from the
th°,n‘eorthis
ening until now told them that that decision on
theip
Hill should t • n their Lordship'' minds
henset th °P'ra
e o
. e decision of the same House in 1842 again 4
ceision now. The House of Commons of 11142 against

acid
a'so,

eV fl

the House of Commons of 1844. But unless they were to
suppose that the House of Commons had become servile and
infirm in foar or five years, he did not know why the decision
now come to, which had resulted from mature deliberation

ikquiry on the subject, should lie set aside. He knew,
that another Noble Lord, who had spoken on the previous
ing, and whose sentiments were entitled to be heard with
every attention and respect, Lad told them that, though the
decision of the House of Commons had been arrived at by a
clear majority, it was not a clean majority,—(Hear, bear,
from the cross benches.) He would ask them, were former
majorities more clean than this ? Nay, he would add, had
there ever been a decision come to that was more free from

the exercise of authority and extraneous influence than the
dcci;ion on the Corn Bill in the other House? All who

had been in the practice of leading and guiding the delibera-
tions of the other House—and it was not for them to question
their motives when by a hsrge majority they had sent up this
Bill, with the object of settling a difficult and most importan
question. He knew some Noble Lords on the cross benche it
bad stated that some of the public declarations of the leading
parties who supported this measure was different from that
which they entertained in private ; but he did not profess to
drag these parties to the confessional, or to drag their sup-
porters there.—( Hear, hear.) It was sufficient for him that
they had altered their minds, and, having so altered, sup-
ported the present measure.—(Hear, hear.) He tuck the de-
cision of the House of Commons as he found it on this mea-
sure, as the declaration of the representatives of the people.
Before entering with his Noble Friend (Lord Ashburton) into
the commercial phase of the question, he would say a few
words on two points, which required to be considered as ne-
cessary and preliminary to the consideration of the general
question. The first point was the political aspect of the ques-
tion, which was referred to by the Noble Lord the Secretary for
the Colonies, and also the Noble Lord who last addressed

the House. The importance of being independent of foreign
nations for the supply of food, and the political dangers of that
dependence. He (Lord Lansdowne) would not revert to what
was so forcibly stated by the Noble and Learned Lord who
followed the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, and
which also had been referred to by the Noble Earl behind him.
He must observe, however, that that striking fact which had
been so strongly put forward had not been net. The gigantic
influence of Napoleon extended all over Europe. He employed
every commercial means to ruin this country, and prevent a
supply of food, but human interest was stronger than the power
of Bonaparte, and his policy was defeated.—(Cheers. )- Look at
the price of corn then, and contrast it with what it might have
been had that policy been successful? But corn was coming
in all the time. l'he power of Napoleon, great and paramount
as it then was, did not succeed ; had it done so, corn, instead

of selling at 105 s. a quartet would have been 1505.—( Hear,
hear.) If no corn had come iu, ruin would have overtaken,
not only those engaged in manufactures, but the farmers also.
That importation of foreign corn was necessary to save the
labouring classes from starvation and the farmers from ruin.
But what said the Noble Lord, and the Noble Lord opposite,
following him in the same line of argument, in talking
of the danger of depending on foreign countries for a
supply of food ? They rested their case in respect of
this point on the present sliding-scale. Now, in his
opinion if there was one law so contrived more than another to
create this danger it was the sliding-scale—( Hear, hear.)—
because, under the operation of a fixed duty, or free trade,
they could regulate the quantity of corn from foreign countries
that might be required, and what corn-growers in those
countries might readily expect in regard to the supply. But
with a sliding-scale, they proclaimed their danger, as far as
scarcity was concerned, to all foreign countries, and if those
countries, as had been represented, were disposed to conspire
against this country, they could easily do it, for at the very
moment when the sliding-scale proclaimed the scarcity of corn
in this country, they cenld easily cut off the supplies, and reduce
the country to starvation.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") He was
persuaded there was infinitely more danger in the sliding-
scale than in any other system of law that could be adopted.
Yet this system had been proclaimed by Noble Lords on the
other side. The Noble Lord (Lord Ashburton) had in illustra-
tion of this subject, referred to the cotton trade as showing the
danger which would arise in any rupture with America on ac-
count of cur being dependent on that country at present for sue-
plies. Some Noble Lords were alarmed at the thought of giving
the f .reigner a control over the supply of corn, but in his opinion
quite as much mischief, misery, and starvation would follow a
sudden refusal on the part of America to suply this country
with cotton as with corn. ( Hear, hear.) And yet the very
last act of the Government, on which the Noble Lord alto had
last addressed the House, was to reduce the duty on the importa-
tion of cotton from America. Upon the subject, therefore, of
rendering themselves dependent upon foreign countries, they
ought not to trouble themselves for a single moment.—( Hear.
hear.) Now there was another point connected with this Bill in
a preliminary point of view, to which he must direct their Lord-
ship's attention. A strong opinion prevailed amongst some Noble
L. rds that the passing of this Bill would be attended with con-
siderable alteration in the social state of the country. He knew it
had been verc much the fashion, not merely amongst Noble
Lords on the cross benches, but amongst eminent persons both
in this and other countries, to say that this measure would pro-
duce a great alteration in the social condition of this country ;
and he had heard very conspicuous persons in neighbouring
counties pronounce a sort of panygeric upon the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government for having under-
taken to work out a revolution in the social system of England.
Now nothing he thought was further from the Right Hon.
Baronet's mind in bringing on this Bill than working out a
great revolution in the social condition of England. Nor did
he think there was any reason for troubling themselves with
such an apprehension, for landed property would always
have attached to it a large degree of importance, while
the possession would always exercise some control over
the decisions of the Legislature. Even in countries of a purely
commercial character, such as Holland, which was described
as a country which could extract nothing it wanted out of its
own soil, the possessors of landed property exercised a certain,
indeed a high degree of influence on their particular legislators.
—( Hear, hear.) He did not at all apprehend, then,
that this Bill would diminish the power or influence of the
aristocracy, or of the country gentry, who were described by
the Noble Lord, the late Secretary of State for the Colonies,
as being an essential part of the aristocracy of the country.—
( Hear, hear.) Having disposed of these two preliminary
points, he now came to the consideration of the tommercial
principle involved in this measure, but here he must stop to
remark that he did approve of the Bill, because he altogether
approved of its provisions.—(Protectionsst cheers.) In sup-
porting the Bill they were acting as practical men, relying
upon the experience they had had of protection, while those
who opposed it were not supporting practical, but purely theo-
retical views, for most of the restrictions which had been
placed upon trade were intended to be experiments, and the
corn laws as an experiment had failed. Now, hitherto all re-
strictions which had failed had been abandoned, and what
strongly indicated the expediency of their abandonment was the.
fact that those parties who were supposed to be most interested
in them had never made an attempt to induce the Legislature to
restore them. It was not as if they were now called upon to
resist a change in a system which had for ages proved successful,
but they were asked to do away with restrictions which were
passed as an experiment, and which experience and observation
had fully shown had failed.—(Hear, hear.) While,' on
the other hand, the experience of the last thirty or forty years
had sufficiently served to convince them that changing the re-
strictive system invariably resulted in benefiting the country
and improving those trades which it was thought it protected.
Look, for instance, at the experience they had derived from
the change which I.ad been made on silk, hops, and kelp. His
Noble Friend who last addressed their Lordships had told them
that Mr. Huskisson had once given an opinion in favour of
the protective system. Now, in his opinion, one of the greatest
benefits M., Huskisson conferred on this country was doing
away with the duty on silk.—( Hear, hear.) Mr.
Huskisson was terribly reviled for that act, but
Mr. Huskisson said he would persevere, notwith
stasiding he might be called hard-hearted, and
the roll proved most triumphant, for at the time the charge
was made there were only 200,0001bs of silk manufactured in
this country, while now there were 600,000Ibs.—(Hear, hear. )
His Noble Friend the late Secretary for the Colonies had
boldly declared that the abolition of protection had proved
highly injurious to the shipping trade, but they had never
heard of an attempt on the part of interested parties to re-
store the whole system. His Noble Friend, however, must
have looked at a wrong paper, or he would not have made the
statement he did. His Noble Friend had stated that there
rLihad:.b4,lsdyb e
Lordship.'
npu:t
accurate
htpaeo table,
lfi
eot
found
dhe diminution
rmot
i then
act
hi
yenher
aayo4rf
lb e3e English tonnage in the year
carefullybeen
tiha preparedteeriey
wlaaisd and tole-
rablyupon
increaset heir
of 2,618,000 tons, as compared with the period
when the duty had been reduced. But there was
a subsequent reduction of duties, and yet with than
reduction the number stood thus—in 1832, the tonnage of Eng
land was 1,936,000 tons, while in the year 1845, it
was
3,660,000 tons.—( Hear, hear.) Hs could hardly believe then
that the shipping trade was suffering ureter the relaxation of
protection, and nothing, he thought, could be more conclusive
in favour of this Bill than the figures he had given.--( Hear,
hear.) But it was said the shipping trade of foreign countries'
had increased since the abolition of protection. Well, he ad
mitted it, and gloried in the result. He wee rejoiced to hear
that these measures had been conducive to advance the in-
terest of other countries as well es their own, and God forbid
that it should ever be objected to any measure tl.at it
was calculated to lead to such a result..—( Cheers. )
In the year 'B5, Mr. Pitt, in his statement of Political Eco-
nomy, did not consider it as strange to his principle ; when he
endeavoured to avail himself he did not see any great success
liable to result from its application. He entertained a com-
mercial proposition for a free trade with Ireland ; that was
founded on a principle of improvements in commerce. There
were not wanting persons of high authority, like him ; and
people out of doors, who then, as now, saw in the adoption of
this proposition the ruin and destruction of England. A near
relative of my Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies
(Colonel Stanley), whom he had the honour to know,
came forward on that occasion, and presented a pe-
tition enforcing it, in which he stated what the peti-
tioners stated—that they desired to be heard by counsel,
for that was about to be done which would put the finishing
stroke to the cotton manufacture of England. It was the ad-
mission of Irish fustians and cottons which caused this alarm,
said they stated that the working people, manufacturers, and
their children, would be sacrificed. The petition was not
adopted, and what was the event ? These cottons were ad-
mitted, and he certainly regretted to say, that Ireland did
not now produce enough for her own consumption ; for
since that time the cotton manufacture of England was
They next came to another extension
really increased.
g • r anxious to get at the root of the
of this system ;
thatapp r Ho
hoautsi
oe
n, aonfd t
hhee
Noble
protective system, fo
commercial treaty with France was
say proposed.with tlhte
before the House in
was
concurrencea.debated iandin
in that
came before
who was sitting onthtehefocrinro=sofbreenscohlo.
resolutions, instead
inmateeaasdureosf
being placed in the form of a Bill. They were placed
any alteration
authority to Mr. Pitt,
a k ithatng
form in order
nt to
that Bill.
that
The
euster
treaty
yo opportunity t
debatedn
though in a different walk of life—a friend of
House, and a person of scarcely inferior
hiety nf
lai
n
late Secre-
tary of the Colonies—he meant the Bishop of Llandaff o r Dr.
Watts—took in his notions of protection the same views as
his Noble Friend. He told the House that they were throwing
over all the experience of their ancestors. In that opi-
nion he followed, or rather preceded, the example of
his Noble Friend, and read the preamble of an Act of
Chat lea 11. The preamble of this Act set forth, that as it had
become universally known that the wealth of this country was
disappearing altogether in consequence of the money seat nut
of the country to purchase French nines—(Laughter). The
experience of the ancestors to which the Noble Lord had re-
ferred might be very good, and he revered the experience of
their ancestors, as they founded the great principles and con-
stitution of the country. tie believed they had laid die go-
vernment on the suhraepiss of thestnfoeundation, country.
anti cootributed much to
n
the prosperityßut he would
say that his respect did not extend to any of those nostrums
which they applied from time to time by Act of Parliament. They
applied all those nostrums, and invented various schemes founded
on the principle of protection, which uniformly failed in their
effect. If the Noble Duke who presided at the Board of
Trade had leisure (but he believed that he had not) to look
through all the papers and memorials which had from time to
time been sent to the board, from tho.e Papers they would
fled that the commerce of the country had had mere dangerous
and hair-breadth escapes than were even encountered in the
adventures of Sinbad the Sailor. The commerce of this
clutitty had underg me various improvements and alterations,
all of which were to have seriously injured it; but they had al-
wsys ended by the commerce of the country finding itself,
aster the lapse of a few years, in a higher position than
it shal attained before. Therefore, he again said, thae
he thought that experience was rather against than ha

favour of protection. He knew that it would be said
by many that they were preprred to abandon every-
thing if the principle of it were not for the farmers of England.
Nothing could be more erroneous than to suppose that the
farmers, with all the advantages of the wealth and prosperity of
this country—with a growing population—derived their sub-
sistence from the sickly atmosphere of protection instead of
their own industry and labour. His Noble Friend had voted
Mr. Huskisson as the w'sest of commercial statesmen, and said
that he had agreed to the maintenance of the prohibitory sys-
tem. He thought, when his Noble Friend told the House

when he qunted the opinions of Mr. Huskisson. as given in
1815, and also his last speech of IR2B. he entirely suppressed
all mention of his opinions in 1815. His Noble Friend

had said that Mr. Huskisson was
of our commercial statesmen, and
he refused his authority to confirm these opinions.

the w iseq
said that
He would

beg leave to read some remarkable passages in the last speech
of Mr. Huskisson. Me (Mr. Huskisson) had said that to
whatever extent they attributed to other evils the present
state of the country, the corn-laws were themselves a burthen
and a restraint upon the manufactures and the commerce of
the country. How was it possible for his Noble Friend, after
he had read that speech in 1830, deliberately to come down to
the House and quote the authority of Mr. Huskisson as enter-
taining views coinciding with his own in condemning
the corn-laws. He believed that there were not
among the natives of the kingdom a class of per-
sons better informed and more long-sighted in any transaction
of business which referred to themselves than Scotch far-
mers. He had a list in his hand of six or seven large farms in
Scotland, in an important part of the country, which had been
let lately, and one as lately as a fortnight since, when this Bill
had passed the House of Commons, and a great many of these
lettirgs had taken place at an advance of from 10 to 25 to 30

and 40 per cent. Were these unfortunate Scotehmen to be
held up to public derision ? Were they to be handed down to
posterity as Scotch dupes ?—(Laughter.) Memorials were
presented by the Board of Trade—deputations of Members of
Parliament attended to represent the infamy which would follow
repealing the duty on flax. He would trouble their Lordships
for a few moments, and these were the last figures he should
trouble their Lordlips with, to the effect that would follow
the withdrawal of the protection from flax. The produce of
Irifh flax in the year 1841, the year before the withdrawal of
protection, was 25,009 tons. The year after protection was
withdrawn, the quantity of flax produced in Ireland was
36,000 tons—so that it was clear that when protection was re-
moved, in spite of all the dreaded anticipation, there was a
great increase in the produce of wool. Lord Devon reports in
his Commission, that sat in the north of Irk land,

that they had examined a Mr. Blake, who stated that
the cultivation of flax had greatly increased
since protection was removed. Mr. Maculloch stated, in
answer to a question put to him, as to whether he thought flax
was a remunerative crop, that of late years it had become very
remunerative. Their Lordships had therefore the evidence of
persons residing in the country, the best evidence which could
be accumulated, to show that the removal of protection from
flax was followed by a great increase in the cultivation of that
article. But it might be said that this was owing to the in-
crease of the linen manufactures, that it so happened that protec-
tion to linen was withdrawn at the same time. He was
of opinion with Mr. Huskisson, though not his earlier opinion,
but in his latter opinion, that the corn laws were an impediment
to the progress of manufacture. He contended, therefore, that
all restrictions when removed had been followed by an im-
mense increase in the production of those articles. if those
persons who fancied that the removal of restrictions would
have reduced this country from its rroud pre-eminence to the
lowest state of degradation, and if they were to rush
to those scenes were desolation and ruin were expected, and
thought they would see nothing but ruin, desolation, misery,
and wretchedness, they would be surprised at seeing an im-
mense district in a most flourishing and happy condition. He
was told that they thought too little of the home market to the
agricultural interest. All fears with reference to the removal
of protection in the manufacturing districts and the county of
Lancashire, have, according to accounts which he had lately
received, been entirely removed. He would call their Lord-
ships' attention to the immense increase which had taken place
in the value of manufactured goods as comps,rer, with agricul-
tural. In the former case, the increase bed been 6,300
per cent., whereas agriculture had advanced only
3,500 per cent. He therefore considered it very short-sig' ted
not to consider the manufacturing interests as part of the na-
tional prosperity of the country. He could never bring him-
self to consider the prosperity of manufactures as a sort of
morbid secretion which the State physician was to keep down
by a restrictive regimen. On the contrary, lie considered that
the freest scope should be given to manufactures,
and that the workmen should be enabled to obtain their
food at the cheapest possible price, —( Hear, hear.)
Re thought that a fixed duty was preferable to the alterations
now proposed, and he did so because of the advantage which
would accrue to the revenue of the customs ; and because he
wi•h d that in all great changes the prejudices and sentiments
of all should be consulted, and not suddenly interfered with.
By adopting it, the chanse would be gradual and moderate,
and prove satisfactory to the agricultural interest. Those were
is opinions some time since ; and if he had the settlement of
the question now, those would be his opinions still.—( Hear,
hear.) The question which he had now to answer was, whether
he would adopt that principle when the Bill went into com-
mittee. He had no hesitation in answering that he would not,
because, though he might be nominally voting for such an
amendment. if it were possible, he would be really voting
against the Bill ' • and the consequence, he firmly believed, would
he, that instead of a fixed duty being eventually passed, their
Lordships would be called upon to pass a totally different
Bill.---(Hear, hear.) His hopes, as connected with the fall
or rise of provisions, in consequence of this measure, were
not up to the depression which was predicted on the one side,
nor to the exaggeration on the (Aber. The way he thought it
would operate would be by a gradual and certain increase of
commerce which would be placed on a more solid foundation.
—( Hear, hear.) He was confident that the effect would not
be injurious to the British farmer, and he would apply in re-
ference to its operation the lines of one of their most beau-
tiful poets.
" Trade's prowl empire bastes to swift decay.
As ocean sweeps the laboured mole awa."
He was willing to adopt the two fol:owing lines in-addition—
" A self-dependent power can storms abide,
As rocks resist the billows and the tide,"
And with that confidence he would sit down and give his vote
for the second reading of the measure.
Lord Beaumont, the Earl of Eglinton, and the Earl of
Essex then rose together, and for several minutes the House
presented a scene of the most indescribable confusion, some
calling for one Noble Lord to be heard, and some for another.
Amidst the uproar,
The Duke of RICHMOND rose and moved that the Earl
of Eglinton be heard.
Earl GREY moved as an amendment that the Earl of Essex
be heard.

The LORD CHANCELLOR put the question to the vote,
and declared that the "not contents" had it.

The Duke of RICHMOND said that the " contents "
had it.

Earl GREY—I say the" not contents" have it.

The Earl of EGLINTON at length gave way, and
The Earl of ESSEX proceeded to address the House.—He
was sorry that he should have occasioned such trouble ; but he
was desirous to express the opinions he entertained with regard
to this great question, and as he was so little accustomed to ad-
dress the House, he hoped for its favourable consideration
while he made a few observations on the subject. He had come
to the conclusion he had entertained with anxious de-
liberations of great donht, and he did not found
them on the opinions of the Brights and
Cobdens of Manchester, but upon thorough conviction.
He had had much doubt as to the repeal of these laws, and he
should still feel much doubt in his mind were it not that the
opinions of her Majesty's Ministers had brought forward such
arguments as they did in support of the repeal of the restriction
en the trade and commerce of the country. But whatever
doubts he had on his mind as to these laws they were removed,
and he now had none.—( Hear, hear.) But long before this
measure was brought forward, he was of opinion that the
cheapening of corn would be of great benefit to the farmers,
for it would allow them the means of fattening cattle at a much
more remunerative rate than at present.—( Hear, hear.) He
was also of opinion that this measure would greatly
improve the sale of cattle, and he was sure that they
should all live to see the benefit of the repeal
of the corn-laws to this country.—( Hear.) He was
not one of those who impressed upon the people that this was
a measure which would be of great benefit to the country. He
did not seek to be popular by using such arguments, but he
was not for making the people believe that high prices were for
the benefit of the people. He was for making the farmers be-
lieve that the new system of farming was the better ; and he
was for impreFsing on them the necessity of doing away otitis
the old and antiquated system of farming. He would take
that opportunity of doing away with an unfavourable impres-
sion which had been made with respect to himself at some of
the farmers' meetings a short time ago, where it was stated
that he was careless of the interest of the small farmers. He
had never said anything which could lead any one to so repre-
sent him. What he had said was, that the repeal of these laws
would do more injury to the small farmers, would injure thof.e
who farmed land in a small way, and who had not
capital at all to enable them to make the necessary improve-
ments in agriculture. He bad so expressed himself, and he
was at a loss to know how it could be expected otherwise.
There was one thing to be very much regretted when consider-
ing this question, and that was, there was an impression
amongst those who were ambitious to rise and to
be of importance in their various parishes, that
it was thought by them to have large farms was to be the
most respectable. This false feeling made many take more
laud than they had capital to work to their advantage. This
taking of large farms they thought the most necessary to their
prosperity. Now what said the late Lord Leicester, the great
promoter of the agricultural interests, and the great authority
on all that affected the farmers' interests? He said that he
would never let a farm to any one who had not at least 101. per
acre capital. The consequence of this was, that he had brought
round a class of farmers who were the most prosperous
and happy, and who reflected credit upon the country.
If farms were to be taken •n a different system to the present
one of letting out small portions of land, they would find men
of large capital who would embark in agriculture. It was
the opinion of the Noble Lords on the cross benches
that it was not for the benefit of agriculture
for men of capital, who were acquainted with agricultural pur-
suits, to bring their capital into such a speculation, but such
was not his opinion. He was not at one period in favour of
free trade principles, but he was now converted to such an
opinion. He could only say that his conversion was pure. He
had nothing to expect from her Majesty's Ministers—he sought
no reward ; on the contrary, he had made a great sacrifice ; for
it was a sacrifice to lose the good opinion of the
farmers of England. He had made that sacrifice,
because it was for the benefit of the country 'at large.
He could not sit down without expressing his regret that
those who had brought forward this measure had not considered
more :particularly the burdens upon the land with a view to
their alleviation. He believed that the Ministry did not
expect that evils would result from these burdens, which
would make it necessary that they should take them
into their particular consideration. Ile thought that
*ow they had an admirable opportunity of con-
sidering this subject, and of alleviating the burdens underr
which the agriculturist was laboing,nfrortreedeid
yearsnot consider
that that the continuance :.'of protectionfi
Believ-
ing he did that a great
advocated
mg as inn that those who had formerly reference
h lf
equivalent nutesftoirout.l.:
question—seeing
injuries sm
changeictehd
abdyttahkeesne
pbluaredeeinns.
had formerly advo-
;also, that those who
the amount—seeing,
contented with no duty at
rated a small fixed duty
werenowthe period thought arrived
all—and believing as he did, that
a 403. duty had now reduced their claims to exactly one- a
betterwhen
that laws
they
opinion, • instead
of at once yielding to the popular
and former
of endeavouring to retain former opinions ,
must
tuldbe adopt rescinded,
th e bed
wiser
eour vet
et
bar nony where bitterness at present prevailed ; they would
extend By the adoption of this policy, they would restore
extend commerce, and establish on a more friendly basis the
relations of foreign countries. In conclusion, he would state
thaheiaaintri,l;cteherehearwd::eoavnepdrryc-eosciuodnnefidence in her Majesty's Ministers, and
mire particularly in the sagacity of that able and accomplished
set esnatwo
few,n t
r subject.n
one,
Lord-
ships to point out any
counter-cheering.)—eir(LHoaradr:
one person who had been entirely con-
-(A
aroundNhoibmle, Lwfhrod—h:(6l Youbeen wseor!
and he
h"e)
believed only those could lay claim to consistency who fled from
the beginning urged the propriety of a total abolition of those
laws. He did not, thi-tefore, see that those who
had become converts to these opinions,could be greatly charged
with inconsistency. Until they could prove that this country