The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-10 00:00:00

°ll

said very fairly and truly that we cannot omit the consi-
deration of the naval force of other countries ; that we not
only cannot omit the consideration of their naval forces,
but that no one can find fault, and that no foreign paver
ought to find fault if our navy is stronger than that of any
other state. So far I quite agree with te Hon. Gentleman.
I do not mean to say that we should absolutely adhere to the
rule laid down in 1717, that it is necessary that this country
should possess a naval force equal to any other two foreign
powers, but to the proposition that we ought to be stronger
at sea than any other power the Hon. Member has my full
assent. But in discussing further the question as to what
that force should be, I own I think that the Hon. Member
laid down certain principles to which I cannot possibly as-
sent. He stated very truly, however, that the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the late Government said that it was
most desirable that other countries should agree with us not
to run a race of competition as to the amount of force which
each should keep up ; but that, instead of ruining each other
by extravagant expenditure, it would be far more rational
and better for the people of all countries that they should
rather agree to reduce their forces to a moderate amount.
So far I quite agree with the Hon. Gentleman. But the
Hon. Gentleman entirely omitted the fact that the Right
Hen. Baronet, when in power, not at all retracting that view
which he had laid down, yet found it necessary, in conse-
quence of the increase of the French navy, very much to in-
crease our force, and to lay the foundation for a very exten-
sive force of steamers, entailing a very large expendi•
ture on principles which he found it necessary to act
Upon, although they were not the principles on which
he had said it would be most desirable both for France
and this country to act. It is obvious that if France
bad been willing to take that suggestion, and make a great
reduction at that time, the Right Hon. Baronet would have
acted an the principles which he had laid down ; but as
Prance went on the opposite principle of making a very
great expenditure for the purpose of having a very large
naval force, especially a very large force of steamers, it
would have been quite impossible for any Government of
this country not to follow that example, and have on our
side a considerable force, able to defend us in case of war.—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon.f Member has referred to some evi-
dence of Sir Thomas Hastings, and the Hon. Gentleman who
spoke last said that he only had in contemplation what
would be necessary in time of peace. But at the same time
e knew that this country might be exposed to war, and that
if war should break out, possibly there might be battles at
sea—(Hear, hear, and a laugh)—and I own I do not think
that Sir Thomas Hastings, in entertaining that opinion, was
wandering very far into the regions of imagination, or that
he rendered himself extremely liable to the charge of being
fanciful in thinking that something might occur, which
occurred six or seven times in the course of the last cen-
tury, and in thinking that, if it should occur again, it would
...be as well to be prepared for it.—(Hear.) Then the Hon.
Member in laying down certain- principles of calculation,
Bays our steam navy costs an enormous sum, and a greater
sum than the merchant steam navy of this country. Ido
not know the particulars of that estimate ; but I am very
Much inclined to doubt the fact. But, however, I do not
think the- inference which the Hon. Member draws is a well-
founded one, for he says "You have a steam navy which
has cost more than the merchant navy which you would
have to protect." Our steam navy would have to protect,
not only the merchant steam navy, but the whole commer-
cial marine, as well as to serve for other purposes of war and '
defence, and render that assistance to our fleets which the
Steam navy is called upon to afford. It would give a very
inadequate notion of the duties of our steam navy to say
that it was merely to protect the merchant steamers belong-
ing to this country.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I must say I
think this principle of saying exactly how much is to
be the exact cost of your navy, and what is to be the benefit
to be derived from that navy in case of war, would lead one
to a very absurd conclusion. The Hon. Gentleman, for
Instance, says, you have a large steam navy which you will
find in the end will cost more than has been spent in
building all the towns on the coast. Supposing that to be
the case, would it be a wise thing 'fur this country in an
economical point of view—merely as.a question of how
You could spend your money to the best advantage—to say
You would not spend, whatever it might he, five, six, or ten
millions, rather than allow the towns on the coast to be de-
stroyed? Suppose this country was engaged in a :war, and
that at its commencement a French steam navy invaded our
shores, and that every town from Dover to Falmouth was
sacked and destroyed. Would any one say, " Well, after all,
we are gainers by this? These towns cost for their con-
struction some 15,560,000/. 19s. 10id.; but as our steam
navy. if we had one, would have cost us 1,000,6(10/. more,
We should have incurred that additional expense to save
these towns from destruction, and therefore we are gainers
by the difference."—(Laughter.) It is quite obvious what
the effect of this state of things would be—that the whole of
the country would be in a state of real panic, not that panic
Which he says existed lately,-a causeless panic, but that
Panic which must take place when the country finds itself
incapable of defence.—(Hear, hear.) As smatter of economy.
what is the cause and the whole secret of the capital and the
prosperity of this country? What caused the people to have
the greatest confidence in the security of this country, and
on the faith of which they invested within the last few
Leers upwards of 300,000,0001. in railways ?—(Hear. hear.)
What creates that confidence that gives rise to our coin-
Inercial and manufacturing speculations? It is the belief
that this country is secure of her independence, and that
she can maintain order within and command respect with-
out. People then feel that capital may be safely laid out
and invested in this country; but if they believed that the
towns on the coast could be seized and burned by a foreign
navy, that feeling of confidence would at once cease, and
persona having capital to invest would say "We will go to
Now York or Philadelphia, and fly from a country which has
not the wisdom or the courage to defend itself."—(Cheers.)
Such appears to me to be the-pounds, shillings, and pence
View of the question of our national defences, and instead of
saying we are actuated by feelings of patriotism and nation-
ality, and talking of the British lion—(Laughter)—it is
solely a calculation of what is the cheapest way of main-
taining the money, and the capital, and the riches of this
coultry; and I for one maintain that it is a cheaper way to
follow the suggestions of the Right Hon. Gentleman the late
Prime Minister, and to have a good steam navy, than to
calculate,' the exact cost of that navy, and to ascertain
whether what it was intended to defend cost a few thousands
More or less, and then to decide that it was too expensive a
system of national defence.—(Hear.) Having differed from
the Hon. Gentleman in that respect, I must say that I agree
in mfich that he has said on another point, and I think that
if the present French Government, being wiser than the late
Government of France, should think proper to reduce their
naval expenditure, which has been rather extravagant of late
3 ears—l think it would be a good occasion for us to bring about
retrei chments which otherwise might not be considered ex-
pedient. I think likewise that the Committee which lately
set on this subject has pointed out the several sources of ex-
pense which might very well be the subject of inquiry, and
careful revision and amendment in future years. I certainty
disagree with the Hon. Gentleman who has said it is not ex-
pedient or fitting that they should be submitted to a Select
Committee. I think it would be unadvisable and unwise
to take that course every year. I regret for my own
part that that course was not adopted in 1838, and I
think the Hon. Member for Montrose wits quite right
in his suggestion that they should be submitted to a
Select Committee this year. I believe the appointment of
such a Committee from time to time will be advisable, in
order to enable the Government and those departments to
reconsider' the expenses that have been incurred, and to
take a better course with regard to the future. I perfectly
agree, likewise, that nothing can be more foolish than for
the Governments of different countries to vie with each other,
and compete as to having large armies and navies.
(Cheeret) As a general course of policy that is most un-
Wise but it must be recollected that we are not in the posi-
Com of the United States of America—we are naturally
more involved in all the questions which concern the conti-
nent of Europe. But still I think that the Powers of Eu-
rope would all do well if they adopted the suggestion that
has been thrown out of reducing their expenditure to what
is really necessary.—(Hear, hear.) I do not wish to fol-
low the Hon. Member for the West Riding in those views
Which he took of the state of foreign politics; but 1 could not
help adverting to this when he spoke, and think he did
quite fairly, of his prophecy made with respect to the
probability of a revolution in France. I must remind the
Honourable Gentleman that he made another prophecy—
that the present Government would be influenced by the
clubs and coteries of London, and that in a short time we
should be involved in a war with France. I thought at
the time that that was most unjust to the Govern-
ment of this country. I can assure him that it never
Was our wish to quarrel with the Government of France ;
;Ind, I believe, in the short time that has elapsed since the
lane, I
the French, Provisional Government has
shown, on its part, a sincere desire—as we have evinced
Ott. our part a desire—to act in concert, and on the best
terms of international relations with the Government of so
Powerful and enlightened a nation.—(Hear, hear.) I am
tied to find that the present Government have disclaimed,
Most wisely, those projects •of ambition which led France,
Under the republic and the empire, first to brilliant con-
eta, and afterwards to signal calamities. lam glad to
ad that the present Government of France, and the whole
of the French nation, concur in the' impolicy of such a
course. On the contrary, their wish is to preserve the
Peace of Europe. That, if any desire for war exists, it is
not with France. but with other countries; but I cannot
nay that I think at present the peace of Europe is so assured
that any statesman can confidently predict, for any number
~ years, a continuance of peace. But, with respect to the
Government of France, I believe they are animated with a
Sincere desire to preserve peace. .I believe that the power-
nti.Government of Russia is animated by the same desire;
and when three such powerful nations as this country,
France and Russia, are desirous of preserving the peace of
Europe, there is not, in my opinion, the slightest probability
of that peace being disturbed.—(dear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI—The Hon. Member for the West Riding
has taken this opportunity of commtinicating certain delete-
rums principles, of which, I believe, he ia a persuasive advo-
cate, I wish I could agree with him that what he calls the
Progress
of democratic government is calculated: to insure
tate for human nature. I must say that the little expe-
enCe we have of recent changes has not been of a very pro-
7".inng character. We have had the triumph of democracy
in Germany followed by the invasion of Denmark and by
theinvasien of Holland; and I believe that the Hon. Gen-
tlemantsry though he visits upon Kings and Cabinets the oc-
currences of all past wars, will not find in the annals of
cases of more unprovoked and flagrant invasion.
,„,neeli I must expre as my opinion that the Hun. Gentle-
.U./1 is a professor of philosophy am the subject which is not
founded. upon fact. The Hon. Gentleman is apt to embrace,
I A_Llaink with precipitation, tertian opinions which at the
11115.,,t glance are calculated to enlist the popular conviction;
they do not appear to me to be matured opinions,
c-I.eY do not apppear to me to be founded upon any iu-
oestigation, or to be authorised by anything that has
aoccfurred. All the opinions which the Hon. Gentleman
requently takes an opportunity of communicating to us
andl to the country on the subject of war appear to be totally
unauthorised by what has happened. The Hon. Gentleman
has, said that he does not pride himself upon the gift of pro-
phecy, and I think he is quite right.—(A laugh.) There
have been occasions when we have been informed how much
millsvould be worth, and how the congregations of churches
and chapels would be increased ; and many glowing pictures
of the future of England have been drawn by the Hon.
au-ember at different times and in different places. If they
have net been fulfilled, and after what has fallen from the
Hon. Gentleman to-night, I think the country will not place
much
l reliance in future upon his gift of prophecy; but I
total
y deny the whole statement of the Hon. Gentleman.
He him said to-night, that the period has passed when kings
would be able to engage in wars, and to occasion great suf-
fering to humanity, in order to'parcel out a kingdom or to
authorisest.
aggrandize
by
their provinces ; but that statement is not
anything that has occurred in the history
Cot human nature. I will not go to what he calls ancient
history—but certainly remote history—where I could find
many instances that would totally confute the position
so
frequently and peculiarly advanced by him.—(Hear.)
I will not even go to ancient history, where these
instances are much more rife. I will confine my-
self to that strictly modern history where those
truths are found which are still influencing the destiny of
every man, and in which are•recorded those events which
are
influencing our conduct at this4w moment. Why, modern
history is of very limited extent.
comprise modern history, and in thatpoe centuries
thereu rieand a hal
f
comprise s
hav
have
been l f
Wee wars of signal interest and duration. The first lasted
Years—the 0 years' war of Germany. Was that oc.

casioned by a monarch desirous to carve out a kingdom or to
aggrandize his provinces? No, it was a war of popular
principles and. of popular passions. Was the war occasioned
by the ambition of the French nation under Louis XIV.,
when France was opposed by the spirit of independence of
all Europe in a war which lasted for an equal period—was
that a war of individual feeling? Oa the contrary, it arose
from the indignant spirit of all Europe. And was the war
produced by the first revolution in France, and achieved by
Napoleon, a war of aristocratic or exclusive promoting ?
On the contrary, all these great wars, each of 30 years'
duration, extending over a term of 90 years, one-third of
the period' of modern history, were occasioned by popular
passions, by popular prejudice, and by the ambition
of nations. Even if I were to go into little
wars (and I do not wish to do so unless it is
necessary in refuting these oft-repeated fallacies), I could
show that it was not the Sovereign or the Cabinet that oc-
casioned them. No—they were, as a general principle, too
well acquainted with the resources of countries to occasion
war. How arose the war which occurred
_during the Admi-
nistration of Sir R. Walpole, from the case of Captain Jen-
kins and his ear, when the House rose in tumult, and the
most powerful Minister who ever ruled England was obliged
to succumb to popular feeling, and to engage is war with
Spain? That war did not arise from the ambition of a sove-
reign; it was a war created by the prejudice and passion of
the people: and I have no doubt that other wars will arise
from a similar cause. The Hon. Gentleman has said, in a
most extraordinary manner, that our security for peace at
the present day is the desire of nations to keep at home.
There is a great difference between nationality and race.
Nationality is the principle of political independence.
Race is the principle of physical analogy, and you
have at this moment the principle of race—not at
all of nationality—adopted by Germany, the very country
to which the Honourable Member for the West Riding re-
ferred. What must be the unavoidable consequence of that
principle of race to which the Hon. Gentleman looks as the
security for the peace of Europe? What must be the conse-
quence of the development of that principle? If it is to be
accepted as a great political truth, sanctioned by the Hon.
Member for the Weet Riding, why is France to be left in
possession of Lorraine and Alsace? Why is Russia to remain
in possession of Livonia? If that principle is to be accepted
as a truth, you have not a security for peace, but a certainty
of general and almost perpetual war; and yet it is upon this
principle that the Hon. Gentleman—a great authority—has
come down to criticise the estimates of the Government, and
to deny that there is any necessity for a country defending
itself. lam not surprised, indeed, that the Hon: Member
should be opposed to " protection" in every shape-e-(A laugh)
—but still I think, in one shape, the question of the protection
of our own shores and our own hearths will always be popular
with both sides of this House.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, the
Noble Lord in the speech, full of sound sense and excellent
feeling, which he has just addressed to us, has found great
confidence in the future prospects of peace for the world in
the sympathy of feeling for that object between what he
described as three powerful Governments—our own, the Go-
vernment of France, and the Government of Prussia.—(An
Hon. Member—" Russia.") True; Russia. I must apolo-
gise to Prussia for having mentioned it as a Government.—
( A laugh.) I sin excessively glad to find that there is a
Government in France— (Hear, and a laugh)—a Govern,
went that has been described to-night as a powerful Go-
vernment. I think, after this announcement from so great
an authority as the First Minister, it would be but conde-
scending to recognize that Government.—[ Lord J. RUSSELL,
we believe—" It is recognized."] Really, to describe that as
a powerful Government which had not yet been recognized
by the Queen would be somewhat to anticipate the course of
destiny.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) However, these ob-
servations have been drawn from me by what fell from the
Honourable Member for the West Riding. I rose because
I wanted to know from some member of the Govern-
ment what force they have, for instance, at this moment
in the Baltic. I find that one of the strictest blockades ever
proclaimed has now been declared in that sea ; and cer•
tainly with this great expenditure of force, with a Govern-
ment which we are assured takes care that even our con-
tracted trade and limited commerce with China should be
sufficiently guarded, it would be some consolation to the
merchants of Great Britain if they knew that their interests
were attended to in this quarter. The House will recollect
that Denmark, in self- defence, was obliged to proclaim a
blockade some months ago in the Baltic ; but from the very
best motives it was arranged in a manner as little noxious
as possible to neutrals, and especially in reference to the in-
terests of British commerce; of the return which Denmark
has received for its conciliatory conduct, I need riot remind
the House. But the blockade which has now been declared
—I am sure no Member in the House can blame Denmark
for the course it has taken—is one of the most stringent and
severe character, and much more comprehensive than the
other; it is not now confined to a few ports in the Bal-
tic—it takes in the North Sea, the west as well as the
north of Germany. I should like to have an intimation
from her Majesty's Ministers which would at least give
some satisfaction to the merchants of this country upon
that subject. 'I hey have shown, I must say, the greatest
temper upon the whole question of the misconception
between Germany and Denmark. The original blockade
did them a great deal of harm, but they acknowledged the
justice of the cause of Denmark, and they felt that it was a
legitimate arm of defence, of which that state availed itself.
The merchants were satisfied with the declaration of the
Noble Lord the Secretary of State, and they refrained from
petitioning this House or appealing to their representatives.
They have waited with the greatest interest for the termi-
nation of his interference • and the only return, apparently,
which they have received for their good temper and pa •
tience, and confidence in their Government, is the declara-
tion to-day of a much more severe and stringent blockade,
which must prove necessarily inure injurious, and most inju-
rious to their interests. I wish to have some explanation
upon this subject from the Government, and some account
of the precautions they have taken with this great arm of
England, the resources of which we are discussing, for the
protection of our commercial interests -and the guardian-
ship of British commerce in those waters.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord the Secretary of State told us once, when
I brought the matter forward, that he had ac-
cepted a mediation upon the subject; I beg to remind
the House, that it is not Denmark that solicited the
mediation of the British Government. Denmark required
the fulfilment of a guarantee on the part of the British Go-
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) It was Prussia— Prussia, speaking
on behalf of the new Germanic Confederation, that required
that mediation.—(llear, hear.) The mediation took place;
Prussia agreed to an armistice, which has never been com-
pleted, and Denmark has been forced to the step that has
this day been announced. I want to know what protection
has been afforded to British interests endangered by these
circumstances. I want to know—l shall not press it now, but
it would be gracious on the part of the Noble Lord to tell us—
whether Prussia still remains an independent state? - (Hear,
hear.) Because, then, the merchants would be able to form
some calculation of the chances of redress they have. The
Prince of Leiningen, I perceive, a most able and accom-
plished man, has become Minister of Foreign Affairs for the
Germanic Confederation. I want to know whether there is
to be another mediatised prince.—(Hear, hear, anti a laugh.)
I hope he will not become a Minister for Foreign Affairs.—
'(A laugh.) But these are circumstances which require
some explanation from the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.) There
is another blockade of very great importance, to which I
must also call the attention of her Majesty's Government;
and I want to know what steps they have adopted to take
care of British interests in that quarter; fur what is the use
of voting millions for the navy if we are not attending to
these interests in moments of war and in remote regions ?
I can understand very well the Honourable Member for the
West Riding, who calls our attention to the fact, that our
commerce in a particular quarter does not justify from its
its amount the expenditure we are incurring in order to
guard it ; it is a subject which, if pursued, would give rise
to many considerations which I do not mean now to follow ;
at the first blush it is a position that cannot easily be im-
' pugned; but I think all will admit that a nation that has a
navy, and a nation that is celebrated for two things—the
most extensive commerce and the most powerful Bevy—
should take care that that extensive commerce is protected
where foreign war is raging. Now I want to know what is the
state of our force in the troubled waters of La Plata.—
(Hear, hear.) I have the best reason in the world for ask-
ing that question ; I have a letter here which I received
to-day, but will not now read, from a member of
.a most
eminent Liverpool firm, and I am informed by it that one of
the most important houses connected with our trade with
the regions of La Plata has been obliged to suspend its
payments in consequence of the state of affairs in La Plata—
( Hear)—and my informant says, very candidly, that he
does not see why, unless some settlement of the affairs of
those countries takes place, every other house connected
with that trade should not be prepared for :results equally
disastrous.—( Hear, hear.) We have had now for five or
six years in those waters a force of unprecedented amount
for those regions; the result has been very unsatisfactory
for some time; the accounts th at have reached us have not
been such as have encouraged British enterprise, or
compensated in any degree for the losses of our fellow-
countrymen ; but the most rerriarkable circumstance of
this protracted blockade, and this increased expendi-
ture is, that of late we have had no accounts what-
ever from that quarter.— (Hear, hear.) Here is a district of
country in which British enterprise has been most active, in
which the establishments of our merchants have been on a
very great scale, in which besides the enjoyment of a con-
siderable present commerce there has been a very great
prospect of novel adventure of that kind in countries never
explored—for they were only recently opened to us, and
almost as immediately shut; the attention of our Govern-
ment and the resources of our navy have been particularly
addressed to this rich and this disturbed district, and I
want to know what this force, for which we are about to
vote these large sums, has done for the vindication of
our rights and the protection of our interests in those parts.
—(Hear, hear.) I asked the Noble Lord (Palmerston)
at the commencement of the session whether he would lay
on the table the instructions he had addressed to an Envoy
Extraordinary whom he had himself sent thither in order to
terminate the misconception and the disturbances, and
open these new avenues to English commercial enterprise,
but who had failed in that special mission ; but the Noble
Lord objected, because though that Envoy (Lord Howden)
had failed, there was another special mission just sent. out,
and he thought the production of the instructions might pre-
vent the happy termination of the new negotiations. That
new Envoy has also failed in his attempt; but I suppose it
would be useless for me to ask for his or for the former in-
structions again, because a third. special mission since Parlia-
ment met has been sent out. Let me remind the House of
this circumstance, unprecedented in the diplomacy of any
country, that we have employed six Envoys Extraordinary
in that part of the world on missions which probably nobody
understands, for purposes which we all feel, because British
interests are greatly at stake, and there is, I believe, at this
moment not the slightest prospect of this country obtaining
any satisfaction whatever; as far as we know, we are as dis-
tant from a termination of the matter as ever. lam obliged
to form my opinion, in the absence of any information from
the Government, from that which I read in the foreign
journals of the country in question ; but it is not specially
the duty of the House, in voting these immense sums, to in-
quire how it is that the experienced Mr. Mandeville, our Mi-
nister at Buenos Ayres, received instructions which did not
attain the desired result, and was summoned back to Eng-
land ; that Mr. Ouseley was sent out on a spe-
cial mission and recalled; that the adventurous Mr.
Hood was dispatched, and the chivalric Lord Bowden,
and our friend Mr. Gore, and now a new Minister
is at this moment on his way not to Monte Video,
but to Buenos Ayres, and there is not the slightest informa-
tion given to the British nation by the Minister, while mer-
cantile houses of great importance are failing in consequence
of these matters not being settled ? The expenses of six
missions have been voted by this House; surely this is a
time to ask what prospect there is of a satisfactory termina-
tion :of these negotiations—of our rights being vindicated,
and our interests being protected in that quarter ; what
amount of force we have there, whether it is of that ex-
traordinary amount that ships that were cruising on the
coast of Africa have been sent to carry on warlike opera-
tions there? These are questions which I think her Ma-
jesty's Government ought to answer. I trust that before we
pass this vote the merchants of this country will have some
satisfactory explanation
.on the subject of these two block-
ades, which have occasioned them so much lose. I see, from
an official French source, that France has resolved to en-
force a most stringent blockade of Buenos Ayres instantly,
which cannot fail to have a most injurious effect on the in-
terests of our commerce. Up to a recent period, although
these blockades have been established, QUT merchants have

'~ .l Jar:.

had the means, to a certain extent, of carrying on their
commercial operations, but if these blockades in the Baltic
and at Buenos Ayres should be strictly enforced, the con-
sequences to our commercial interests will be most grievous,
and upon an occasion like this, when we are about to vote
money for the naval force of this country, I think we are
entitled to ask for are explanation, and I hope we shall
receive it.

- -- • - -
Lord PALMERSTON—With regard to the first of the
two blockades to which the Hon. Member who had just sat
down has directed his observations, I am sure that both he
and the House will see that it was not a blockade which we
imposed, and therefore that we are not entitled to force it.
I should say, in the first place, that the original blockade
by the Danish fleet of the German ports was afterwards
relaxed to a great degree, and that, owing to the hopes
which prevailed that an armistice would be signed, that
blockade had nearly ceased. Accounts, however, have
since been 'received, that if the armistice is not signed
by the 15th instant the Danish Government will feel
obliged to reimpose that blockade. Now, no one wig
deny the right of Denmark to impose this blockade as a
measure of additional retaliation. The only functions,
therefore, which British ships of war would have to per-
form in the Baltic and North Sea would be to take
care that the blockade was enforced in conformity with
the law of nations, and we have tie best assurance that the
Danish Government will do no more than what the law of
nations authorises, and therefore there is no necessity for
the presence of any of our ships of war on that coast. The
Hon. Member wishes to know what prospect there is of that
armistice being signed. It is not very safe, when so many
parties are concerned, to indulge in any predictions on the
future, but I still entertain hopes that the armistice may be
concluded. The main difficulty is that which I stated the
other day, in answer to a question, namely, the difficulty oc-
casioned in consequence of the Diet having ceased its func-
tions, and having transferred its authority to the Ad-
ministrator of the Empire, whose sanction to the armistice
it is considered most be obtained. There are other matters
of minor detail which probably may be settled between the
parties, but, however, 1 am in great hopes that there is a fair
disposition on both sides to come to an armistice, and, if so,
I should hope that the material questions at issue will be put
in a train for an early and satisfactory adjustment. With
regard to the affairs of the Rio de la Plata, nobody regrets
more than I do that they have been so long unsettled, and
perhaps it would not be prudent to indulge, at present, in
hopes of a satisfactory solution of that question. Every one
knows that we are not answerable for the original movement
which led to the present state of things there. The late
Government, in conjunction with the Government of France,
entered into an undertaking which we have been obliged to
take up, but for which we are not responsible. The Hon.
Member said that six different envoys had been sent out to
conduct negotiations, but he has somewhat overcalculated the
number. Neither Mr. Mandeville nor Mr. Ouseley had been
sent out from.this country for that purpose.{
Mr. DISRAELI—I did not say " sent out," but " em-
ployed."
Lord PALMERSTON—Mr. Hood was undoubtedly sent
out by the Earl of Aberdeen, and his mission did not suc-
ceed. The reason was, that the two Governments had not
given, as it was intended to do, instructions to their respec-
tive agents. Lord Howden then went out, and his mission
did not succeed either, though without any blame being
imputable to Lord Howden, for no man could have shown
more discretion or judgment than he displayed. There was
unfortunately a difference of opinion between him and the
French representative on a question which was not pro-
vided for by their joint instructions, and that difference
ended in Lord Howden raising the British blockade, while
the French representative did not feel himself justified in
raising the French blockade. Captain Gore then went
out, and his mission cannot be said to have been altogether
unattended by success. Since his departure, however, the
French revolution has broken out, and a question has arisen
whether the powers of the French representative have not
ceased, and whether they do not require to be confirmed.
With regard to the amount of the squadron employed, the
Admiralty will be able to state the exact figures, but I know
that the number of vessels engaged on that coast has been
diminished, in consequence of the hope which was enter-
tained that hostilities would altogether cease. There is no
doubt that there has been a great interruption to the
trade of this country in consequence of this blockade.
There has, indeed, been an arrangement, though not a
very regular one, that merchant vessels, notwithstanding
the blockade, should be allowed to go to Buenos Ayres,
after paying import duty at Monte Video. At the same
time there is no doubt that grievous inconvenience has been
suffered by the trade of this country in consequence of the
blockade, and I can assure the Hon. Member and the House
that no effort will be spared on the part of her Majesty's
Government to bring this unfortunate transaction to an
honourable conclusion. I believe the Governments of Eng-
land and France are both agreed on the subject of termi-
nating the existing state of things as speedily as possible.
I should explain, however, that it does not form any part
of the arrangement between the two Governments to open
up, as the Hon. Member expressed it, any fresh communica-
tions with Paraguay, and I am afraid that, even if this were
done, any expectations that Paraguay wculd afford a great
arid fruitful field for British commerce would be greatly dis-
appointed. The population of Paraguay is exceedingly small,
and their productions very small also. They want very little
of that which we can produce, and they have nothing to give
us in return, except some very bad bark. With regard to
the right of navigation, we are prepared to acquiesce, in
America, in that principle of public law which we maintain
in Europe—namely, that countries through which rivers pass
—if they be really rivers, and not arms of the sea—are en-
titled to command the navigation of those rivers; and that
if a river runs between two countries, it belongs to them to
make such regulation for its navigation as they may think
fit. It forms, therefore, no part of the arrangement between
England and France to interfere with any regulation made
with reference to the Parana and the Paraguay.
Mr. DISRAELI observed that the Noble Lord bad named
five out of the six agents who had been employed to nego-
tiate, but he had not said a word about Mr. Southern, who
had just gone out to Buenos Ayres. The House would re-
collect that we were in a state of Ts si war with General
Roses, and that we were in possession of the fleet of the
Argentine Republic. The Noble Lord had omitted to in-
ferns the House what was the change in the prospects of our
commercial interests which had induced him to alter the
course of diplomatic negotiation. The Noble Lord had said
that Paraguay had but a small population, and that our
trade with that country would be insignificant. The House
had also been informed that China, with a population of
350,000,000, was not likely to take much of our manu-
factures, from which he drew the conclusion that it would
be as well not to relinquish idly our home and colonial
markets.
Lord PALMERSTON said, it was true that the fleet of
the Argentine Republic had been detained, but the squadron
was to be given up the moment matters were settled between
the contending parties in the River Plate. Notwithstanding
this, the intercourse between General Rosas and Lord How-
den had been of the most friendly description, and Mr.
Southern merely went out to replace the former negotiator.
With regard to the trade with China, he must remind the
Hon. Member that our trade with Sl:anghae was of great
importance, and of an increasing character.
Mr. URQUHART said the Noble Lord had onsitted to
notice the other question of the lion. Member for Bucking-
hamshire, as to the withdrawal of part of the squadron of
the power of Buenos Ayres.
Lord PALMERSTON said that that event took place
during the last Administration, but he believed the vessels
were taken chiefly from the coast of Brazil.
Mr. URQUtiART said, the Committee were much in-
apdwh
aiebcdsvet
deceednantuttthesiotteei
ldsteaehdnae
questions
euHoNeo,
ior;basipt :ri!' I low,
at beat aboutceswrti
(fa, opnsr
eßn
ak
ri
kn g hand
n s
131)
ur ee
nf
ou
sr having
Ayres.
il
With respect to the first, it appeared to
cdbohl
iuei
it,irld bleiheaoat
ttniwi
no doubt
heednaaomasuebanwtroket;
raging;inthtoe lreaerna
but it was not given, and, if any danger arose to us from
the present conflict, he laid it to the charge of the Govern-
ment of this country in abstaining from a just and proper
exercise of its power. With respect to Buenos Ayres, we
had been guilty of acts of commission and offence. Since
1841 we lied, in combination with France, been guilty of
criminal acts in the Rio de la Plata. The Noble Lord had
justly said he was not responsible for the commencement
of those acts, but he ( Mr. Urquhart) spoke not of those
who held the office, but of the office or the Govern.
ment itself. He must, however, remind the Noble Lord,
that if he were not directly responsible for the offences
that had been committed, instructions from himself
were at the foundation of them. He would ask the Go-
vernment, whether they had submitted the transactions
that had taken place in Buenos Ayres to the law officers
of the Crown, and whether they had assented to them? The
Government had refused to say whether, in the event of a
contest in Sicily, they would employ the forces of the coun-
try on the one side or the other. If they were going to in-
terfere in the affairs of Italy, as last year they did in Por-
tugal, then they would again expose this nation to the in-
famy of committing unlawful acts. He asserted, that every
officer who drew his sword in a wrong cause, or obeyed an
order that was unlawful, was himself a criminal.—(" Oh,
oh !") Such was the law of this country, and such was the
view taken by the Duke of York when he was Commander-
in-Chief. No order to shed blood could protect the man who
obeyed it unless there had been a proclamation of war. But
these ideas were not acted upon, and the result was, that
the very idea of war was now associated with crime.—(" Oh,
oh !") He called upon the House not to sanction estimates
that would enable the Government to act in regard to other
foreign countries as they had dune in the case of Buenos
Ayres and Monte Video, and to prevent British officers
from being reduced to the position to which they had seen
them brought through the illegal conduct of the Government.
Without a formal declaration of war they could not send
troops against a foreign power. He had received a letter
from General D'Aguilar, the officer who had commanded in
China, adverting to a statement which he was reported in the
Times of the 25th ult. to have made. that no just com-
parison could be draw n between the operations in Kafirland
and the operations in Canton, because in the one they were
according to superior orders, but no such orders had been
given in the other. (The Hon. Gentleman then read the
letter of General D'Aguilar, which embodied a communica-
tion front Sir J. F. Davis, her Majesty's Plenipotentiary in
China, and Governor of liong-Kong, stating that under the
circumstances lie had come to the conclusion that there was
no other remedy but to proceed to Canton with a force and
demand redress on the spot, which, from the dispatches he
had received, seemed to be a course in accordance with the
feelings of her Majesty's Government ; and such being the
case, General D'Aguilar would leave it to the candour of
the Hon. Gentleman to acquit him of acting without
orders. The Honourable Gentleman also read his reply,
in which it was stated that the Times report had
wholly mistaken'the point.) lie did not mention Canton ;
nor did he draw any distinction between the service in Ka •
&land and in China in respect of orders. What he said
was, that in the one case the forms of war had been ob-
served, and not in the other. His observations applied to
the
adinwwt
nihamosblt
lawlessttswlei reeierenesf
andoa,
rnf
therefore,
cd.
eif transactionsfinoriacnc:telhoiureeflaedatinocntfporhoiluoetnomrryailCeltdohcm China; nnhaa
the
beginning
comparison
ne
ghceot country
dntethsr ceytr
end,
and
the
eo3d-
ofHlaiws
idnolcBtr4i2n.e
Ahaqduesbteioenn
confirmed by beam,
was raised as to the legality of the war in China, when the
judges unanimously decided that there had been no war, and
by that decision, therefore, they declared that the operations
in China did not amount to a legal war but to a piratical en-
terprise. He should vote against a farthing of public money
being granted for the present purpose, unless the Noble
Lord at the head of the Government should declare that
henceforward the naval force of the country should not be
employed abroad without warrant.
Lord INGESTRE observed, that the object of this vote
was to grant a sum of 122,0001. to make up a sum of which
part had been already voted, and on that question he con-
fessed lie did not expect to hear a dissertation on the law of
nations. Being sensible of the value of the time of the
House, and seeing the period of the evening as well as of the
session at which they had arrived, he felt he should best con •
cult his duty by making a very few rem:rks. He could not
concur in what had fallen from the First Minister of the Crown
as to the appointment of the Committee on navy estimates. It
would have been much better in the first instance to have
voted the supplies on the responsibility of Ministers ; and
thus the Committee might have sat to consider how they
should afterwards be granted. But it was ruled other-
wise, and the Committee WAS appointed. lie observed that

the Right Honourable Gentleman the President of -the
Board of Trade had given notice of his intention to intro-
duce a Bill for an alteration of the navigation laws. with
a view to its being brought forward again next session ; and
he would take the liberty of suggesting to the Board of Ad
miralty that, pari passu with that Bill, they ought to come
dowr• to the House with a matured plan for obtaining a
supply of seamen to the navy.—( Hear, bear.) He re-
gretted to see that the Committee had touched so lightly
upon tile large expenditure which had been incurred during
the last fourteen or fifteen years in the building and altering
of ships. In his opinion that would have formed a most
valuable branch of inquiry to have entered into.—( Hear,
hear.) He begged to thank the Board of Admiralty for de-
dining to conform to the suggestion of the Committee with
regari to the promotion of officers. If a reduction was to be
made in the number of officers, the reduction should begin at
the other end, and they should not bring in so many into
the service if they bad not the means of promoting them
and carrying them on.— ( Hear, hear.) He hoped that the
plan of retirement would be extended to that valuable
class of officers, the masters and lieutenants of her ➢la-

jestv's navy.
Captain PECHELL begged to say a word in favour of a
class of officers whose case had been entrustel to his hands,
and who had just been alluded to by the Noble Lord. But
before doing so he wished to take that opportunity of saying
that the report of the Committee must be acted upon much
further than the Board of Admiralty seemed inclined to go.
He begged also to observe that, as far as he could discover,
the navy was never in a more efficient state than at the pre-
sent molrent ; and as regarded the manning of the ships he
must do the Hon. and Gallant Member for' Gloucester
(Captain Berkeley) the justice to say, that much of that was
owing to the ability and perseverance which he has shown
on the subject. T" class of officers in whose behalf he
wished to say a word was, the masters of her Majesty's
fleet. That body had presented a petition to the Admi-
ralty in the month of February, 1848, a copy of which
was ordered to be laid before the House on the 29th of
May last, in which they desired to be put upon a proper
footing, and to have rank bestowed upen them in
proportion to their responsibility. They complained that
although an order in Council gave them the rank of Lieuten-
ant, and empowered the Board of Admiralty to give them
the rank of Commander, the board had shown an indisposi-
tion to act upon that order. He hoped that the Gallant
Officer below him (Admiral Dundas) would attend to the
petition of those old and meritorious officers, and see that
justice was done to them.

Captain HARRIS concurred with the Hon. and Gallant
Member, not only in his views with resrect to the claims of
the commanders and lieutenants, but also of the masters.
He considered that the claims of these officers were as
strong as those of the captains, and, as the change would
not be for many years, he hoped the Government. would not
refuse their just claims. There was another point to which
he would advert, and which he considered to be within
the reach of the Admiralty,—he meant' the necessity
of making timely preparation; for manning the navy in
rinagppled with and looked
qthueestout';"fef a war. The
evention required of a suddenonly t bbreeakg
boldy in the face, and it would become perfectly easy of
accomplishment. He hoped the Noble Lord at the head of
the Admiralty would give them some hopes that precau-
tionary measures would be adopted to secure so important
an object. With regard to the Select Committee whose re-
port they were then considering, he would just remark that
on its appointment being proposed he Ned objected to it on
constitutional grounds, because he thought the House was
delegating to a few members of their own body duties which
ought to be discharged by the House itself; he also disap-
proved of the manner in which the. Committee was com-
posed, there being no Members on it who were conversant
with the nature and duties of either the naval or the mili-
tary service ; but he was bound to say, after having read the
report of that Committee, and having made himself ac-
quainted with the principal suggestions it contained, that it
appeared to him that the Committee had been much more
moderate in their views than he had reason to expect. There
were many valuable suggestions in it, and he thought the
Committee had bestowed due caution on the subjects with
which they had to deal, and for which he gave them credit.
Mr. WAKLEY briefly referred to the claims of the me-
dical officers belonging to the navy, especially to the assist-
ant surgeons, whose case he considered to be a very hard
one, and deserving the consideration of the ROME. He
should feel it his duty to allude more particularly to the
condition of these meritorious and suffering officers on a
future occasion.
Mr. W YLD wished to ask what protection was to be
afforded to British commerce in the Baltic? It was an
im-
portant question to the mercantile interest of the country.
Hitherto the blockade in that sea had not been enforced with
much stringency. but for the future there was reason to ex-
pect that it would be so; and he entertained fear that it
might by and by involve this country in a serious war with
the Northern Powers.
Mr. WARD replied, that no application had been made
from any quarter setting forth the necessity of protecting
British commercial interests in the Baltic. If any case of
danger or injury to the property of British subjects should
erise,,he could assure 'the Hon. Member that effectual means
would be taken of giving that protection to our mercantile
interests in the Baltic to which they were entitled.
Admiral DUNDAS begged to observe, in reply to the re-
marks of his Hon. Friend (Captain Pechell), that he re-
garded the masters as the most valuable class of men in the
navy; it had been found impossible to alter their rank, but
the retirement of fifty would give them the rank of com-
mander, and entitle them to half-pay.
In reply to a question from Mr. C. ANSTEY, respecting
the instructions given to our squad= on the coast of Africa
relative to the destruction of slave trade barracoons,
Lord PALMERSTON said that long legal proceedings
had been taken against Captain Denman, which had ended,
he believed, in the failure of the prosecution against that
gallant officer.
Mr. C. ANSTEY—Of_ one prosecution.
Lord PALMERSTON—With regard to the present state
of things, he could console the Hon. Member, by saying that
Majesty's officers on the coast of Africa were acting strictly
in accordance with the law of the land.— (A laugh.)
In reply to an observation of Mr. HUME.
Admiral DUNDAS said, the whole qusstion 'of the posi-
tion and treatment of assistant-surgeons bad been strictly
investigated. With respect to their messing in the ward-
room, it was found that if they messed there the mates and
half-a-dozen other officers must go there. This complaint
was perfectly absurd; but he could assure-his Hon. Friend
that the Admiralty were most anxious that the medical offi-
cers should be well treated, and thzy weie. well treated.
Mr. B. OSBORNE considered it not an' imaginary, but a
substantial grievance, that the medical officers in the navy
were not put on the same scale of rank with those in the
army. Their treatment was particularly alluded to in the
report of the Select Committee; and if his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Wakley) would not take up the case of his professional
brethren,-he ( air. B. Osborne) would pledge himself to bring
the matter before the House.
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that much good feeling had
been evinced upon this subject; but as the Hon. Member for
eliddlesex intended to bring it before the House, perhaps
the Hon. Gentleman would not think it necessary CO press a
debate now.
The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were then agreed to :-
10,930/. to complete the sum for the Victualling Depart-
ment.
136,303/. for salaries in the Admiralty offices.
9,701/. for salaries and expenses in the Registration and
Record-office.
77,261/. for salaries and expenses in the scientific depart-
ment of the navy.
Mr. HUME said it was now one o'clock, and moved that
the Chairman report progress.
Agreed to.
•
The House resumed. The remaining business was dis-
posed of, and the House adjourned at One o'clock.

RAILWAY SHARE MARICE

LIVERPOOL, Aua. 9.
STOCK EXCHANGIC—There is more business doing in
shares to-day, and the market has a better appearance
generally. The sales are Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Che-
shire (late C. and B.), 271. 103. Shares, 141/i—'l
hire
and Yorkshire, Fifths, 1,4 dis. —Ditto, 10/. Preference, 6
per cent., 13s. 9d. p.— Liverpool, Crosby, and Southport,
dis.—London and North-Western, 1231/9—Ditto, Fifths,
5% p.—Ditto, New Quarters, 34 p.—Ditto. Quarters (A and
B), 1 p.—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, 10/.
Preference, 10,4—Midland Stock,lol c.—Ditto, New Halves,
6% dis' .—North Union (A), 200 ex div.—South- Eastern and
Dover No. 4, Thirds, 3 c. dis.—York, Newcastle, and Ber-
wick, 128.

MANCHESTER, AUG. 9.
STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Great Northern,
9 [c. dis.—Lancashire and Yorkshire, Preference, 6 per
cent., 11-16 p.— London and North-Western, 123—Ditte,
New Quarters, 11-16 p.—North Staffordshire, 3 dis.-01d—
ham Alliance, 11,4 dis.—South-Eastern and Dover, No. 4,
3 dis.—Whitehaven and Furness. 10 dis.
BIRMINGHAM, Aua. 9.
STOCK EXCHANGE. —The sales are—North British, Halver,
OA —Ditto, Thirds, 428. dis.—North Staffordshire, 635. 90.
dis. ex div.—Shrewsbury and Birmingham (A), 5% dia.
—South Staffordshire, 68s. 9d. dis.

UNIVERSITY OF LONDON.

MATRICULATION EXAMINATION.-EXAMINATION FOR

HONOURS.

- MATHEMATICS AND NATURAL PHILOSOPHY.—John
Edward Bytheway (exhibition),,. Wesley an Collegiate
Institution, Taunton ; John Charles Addyes Scott,
Edgbaston Proprietary School ;. Francis Guthrie, Uni-
versity. College ; Arthur Joseph Cohen, University Col-
lege •,- William Henry Brown, King's College ; Herbert
George Russell Fripp, private tuition ; Charles Gillett,
University College ; Russell Martineau, University
College ; John Purdue Bidlake, private tuition.
james,,Piggott, Wesleyan Colle-
giate Carpenter (prize of books),islerch Merchant
Taylors'
*John Charles Add) e;
Slicho(siopilt;alßeFriri:rdderißkiceTiQihuaenleoP'savd"o'llege, Bir-
mingham mingham.„ William Henry. Pearce, Marischal College;
John Purdue Bidlake, private tuition.
giaCteLAlS(SislCtiSt,u—tio*llil,
Scott, Edgbaston Proprietary School, equal; *Thomas
Hodgkin, University College ; *Theephilus Dwight
Hall, private tuition, and *William Stebbinz, King's
eTnarYunton, and
College School, equal; Russell Martineau, University
College; John Purdue Bidlake, private tuition; Wilson
Fox, University College; James Anstey Wil, Wesley
College, Sheffield.
* The examiners report that the first five passed a dis-
tinguished examination. The award of the exhibition
is not yet determined. - .

EADVERTISEMENT.I—Scorbutic humours Cured by
Holloway's Ointment and Pills.—Extract of a letter from
Mr. George F. Williams, of Blackrock, near Cork, dated
Junestate for your IyuBo4Bl atl—sTisftiParcofoesn sgrHolloway, Sir,—l beg to
and for the information of
the afflicted, the wonderful effects your Ointment and
Pills have had upon me. I have suffered severely from
toubritnaing that period I tried
almost
Scorbutic humours, and for the last seven years my eyes
have
been
every
the least relief ;
at last I was prevailed upon to use your invaluable me-
dicines, which I did, and I am delighted to say that I am
perfectly cured by them. Sold by all Druggists, and
ev dyr:mdfeuicly 1Y
wsiothre;ou during
at! Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand,
London.
HURRICANE.—On Thursday the Banffshire coast
was visited by a severe hurricane. The herring boats,
all out, made for the nearest ports, and entered in safety.
Next morning a pilot observed a small boat floating east-
wards, and put out, when he found a man, his wile, and
another woman. helpless from fatigue. A cooper of the
name of John Urquhart, who has left a widow and eight
children, was washed overboard on the previous morning.
—Glasgow Examiner.
The ancient registers of the church and parish of
Arcley Kings, near Stourport, have just be.n discovered,
after being lost for very many years. Tuey are from
1539 to 1703.