The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-18 00:00:00

FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 18, 1846.

100 shares each, for the purpose of then considering the
same, and that such committee report upon the affairs
of the company, and ascertain as far as they can how
far the shareholders assent or dissent to the carrying out
or abandoning of part or the whole of the line.
After a long and warm discussion, the seconder of
Mr. Spackman's amendment withdrew his seconding of
it, and it consequently fell to the ground.
In the course of the discussion that took place many
of the shareholders present bore the highest testimony
to the conduct of the directors in the course they had
pursued, and many who had entered the room pre.
judiced against them stated that their prejudices had
been entirely removed.
The directors that went out by rotation were re-ap-
pointed, and Mr. George Broom was appointed auditor,
in the room of Mr:Dutton.

The meeting was then made special for the purpose of
taking into consideration the draft of the proposed Bill
intended to be promoted in Parliament in the present
session, entitled "A Bill to amend the Northern Coun-
ties Union Railway Acts, and to enable the company to
make certain alterations in the line of their intended
railway."
Resolutions approving the measure were proposed and
carried.

Thanks were voted to the Chairman and directors,
and the meeting broke up.

GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY.

The half-yearly general meeting of proprietors was held
at the Paddington Station yesterday, and was the fullest
in numbers ever known. The business having been opened
in the usual way,
Mr. C. RUSSELL, M.P., the chairman, said, that thesix
months to which the report refers, had been about the
most calamitous known in the history of England.
Merchants, manufacturers, agriculturists, and colonists,
had been crushed, and it was not to be expected that
railways, which depended on the flourishing condition
of the whole country, could escape altogether without
suffering. But the directors had been enabled to maintain
the establishment and operations of this company on
that basis on which it had for so many years prospered,
fully up to every expectation that had been originally
formed of it. During the last halt-year, the traffic and
the receipts on the great line from this place to Bristol,
as well as on the branch lines had exceeded those of
the corresponding balf-year.—(Hear, hear.) The com-
pany had been enabled to meet all its engagements, to
maintain all its establishments in their full efficiency,
and to carry on the works commenced, not as rapidly
as had been contemplated, but steadily, and looking con-
fidently to the return of better times.—(Hear, hear.)
The directors had effected all this without having been
obliged to apply to their bankers, or borrowing money
at more than five per cent.—(llear, hear)—
and they had now a sufficient balance to enable them
to give the usual dividend of four per cent., if
they were so minded. But he would recommend them
to be contented with 3} for the present, considering the
present situation of the country. It might be said that
they wore now reserving a fuffd of 41,0001., whereas
heretofore they had been content with a less reserve;
but it was to be remembered that these were not ordi-
nary times. The crisis and the panic had, indeed,
passed away, but the distress produced by them re.
mained, and it was necessary to maintain the system of
economy and circumspection upon which they had
hitherto proceeded.—(Great applause.) The branch
lines, as yet in progress, would at no very
distant time prove a valuable source of revenue,
and a great support to the main line. In going at
length into the details of this topic,. the Honourable
Gentleman took occasion to deny that there was any
truth in the newspaper statement that this company
had several new projects in hand. They, in fact, had
none. They had applied to Parliament for two Bills,
one for a deviation from the Oxford line to accommodate
Leamington, the other to enable them to carry out the
agreement with the Oxford and Birmingham Company.,
The Hon. Gentleman having referred to the decision of
the Lord Chancellor in their favour against the dissen-
dent shareholders of the Oxford and Birmingham
Company, expressed a hope, in consequence of a
proposition received from that body, and subsequent
negotiations, that: the dispute would be peaceably,
amicably, and advantageously adjusted.—(Hear, hear.)
Having dwelt at length upon the necessity of slowness,
caution, and prudence in the progress of their works,
and a constant regard to the commercial circumstances
of the country, and expressing his confidence that out
of the evil they had suffered good would come, he sat
down amidst applause.
The report was then read. The principal points were,
that of the entire railway between Gloucester and Chel-
tenham, which was opened October 23d, this company
owns 4i miles of the mixed gauge portion, the Midland
Counties having three miles of that part. The Berks
and Hants branch, from Reading to Hungerford, 25
miles, was opened on the 31st of December, for passen-
gers only. But the traffic in goods will be the important
item, and there is already evidence of its existence. The
exact average of the whole half.year shows 2484 miles
worked by this company in 1847, as contrasted with
244,i in 1846. The number of passengers in the Past
half year increased by 138,119 over the corresponding
half of 1846 ; the increase of goods was 27,8211., and of
receipts 17,5721. 15s. Bd. ; of the latter 10,6841. were
realised exclusively on the Great Western, and 3,8811.
on the Cheltenham line. The balance disposable for
dividend was 257,3181. 2s. 3d., out of which a divi-
dend of 3i per cent. was recommended, which would
leave a surplus of 41,7911. 12s. 3d. A dividend of 4 per
cent. would leave upwards of 11,0001., which, in
ordinary times, would be sufficient ; but under the
existing circumstances the directors were of opinion that
the permanent value of the property would bo ensured
by currying over the larger balance. This they left to
the proprictori for decision. The report went into a
detail of the state of the works in progress, and referred
with satisfaction to the Lord Chancellor's decision in
favour of this company in the dispute with a body of
shareholders of the Birmingham and Oxford.
The report of Mr. Brunel, the company's engineer,
described the progress of the works, which it stated to
have been not considerable in the last six months.

In answer to a proprietor, the CIIAIANAN said that
the parochial rates on railways were oppressive; that he
had presented a petition to Parliament on the subject,
and the Government had promised to bring in a Biil to
regulate the whole subject of railway rating.
The reports were ultimately received and adopted
after a desultory and prolonged discussion, in the course
of which some proprietors defended the directors and
the company from certain newspaper attacks, and ex-
pressed their satisfaction with the state of their affairs
and the conduct of the management.
Lord ABINGEA moved, and Mr. LILLINGSTONE se-
conded, that a dividend of 3} per cent, for the half-year
ending the 31st of December last be paid on the Ist of
March next. _

An amendment was moved and seconded, to the effect
that the usual dividend of 4 per cent. be paid instead of
that proposed. The supporters of the amendment
contended that the surplus of 11,0001, which would
be left after payment of the larger dividend, was abun-
dantly sufficient, and that the present proprietors, in-
cluding orphans and widow, whose dividends were
their only dependence, ought to have the full benefit of
the net profit. The supporters of the reduction con-
tended that such a step, and the consequnt increase of
the reserve fund, would improve the property of the
company much more than a higher dividend, because it
would secure the confidence of the public.
On a division the amendment was rejected, and the
proposition of the directors for the dividend of 3i per
cent. on the half-year was carried, by a majority of at
least three to one, upon the show of hands.
A poll was demanded and granted, on the under,
stawling that it should close at six o'clock, and be
resumed to-morrow at ten o'clock, to finally close at two.
The other business of the meeting will be resumed at
three to morrow, to which hour it was adjourned.

NORTHERN AND EASTERN RAIL-

WAY COMPANY.
The half-yearly general meeting of the proprietors of
this company was held yesterday afternoon at the Bishops-
gate Station; Richard Paterson, Esq., presided.
The meeting had been called pro forma, in order to
comply with the company's Act of Incorporation, which
stipulates that the half-yearly meetings are to be held
on or before the 21st of August and 21st of Feb.; but the
half-yearly meeting of the Eastern Counties Compary
being fixed for the 2fith Feb., at which the proprietors
of this company have the privilege of attending,
The CHAIRMAN proposed that the meeting be ad-
journed until the 2d of March, when the directors' report
would be submitted to the shareholders, and a dividend
declared.

Mr. MILLS seconded the resolution, which was unani-
mously carried, and the meeting separated.

ELECTION COMMITTEES.
LYME REGIS.

The Select Committee appointed to inquire into the
truth of the allegations contained in Sir Fitzroy Kelly's
petition, complaining of the return of the sitting Member,
re-assembled at two o'clock yesterday afternoon; Lord
Ashley in the chair.
Daniel Channon, collector of the harbour dues at
Lyme Regis, stated that he had always voted on the
Conservative side, and did so at the last election. He
remembered speaking to Mr. Wearing, the solicitor, a
few days before the election. Mr. Wearing was
acting for; Mr. Abdy, and at his request he came
to town just before the election and sought out an
elector named Upjohn. He solicited Upjohn's vote for
Mr. Abdy, but Upjohn refused to vote for Mr. Abdy
unless Mr. Abdy procured him a situation as letter
carrier. He communicated this to Mr. Wearing, and
at that gentleman's request he wrote to Upjohn, in-
forming him that his wishes would be complied with.
The Committee adjourned at four o'cock till to-
morrow.

KINSALE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Pat Ryan, father of the preceding witness, proved that
he received 3s. Sd. from the agent of the sitting Member,
on account of his bill for the chairing.
Several other witnesses were called to prove two or
three other instances of treating, and the Committee
afterwards adjourned till to-morrow morning.

TUE BODIES FOUND IN A TIOUSS AT MANCHESTER.
—We noticed in our last the finding of the bodies of two
children, under rather mysterious circumstances, in two
jars in the yard of a house in Bloom-street. It has since
turned out that some medical students lodged with the
last occupants of the house, and that as these bodies have
been examined by Mr. Dyson, surgeon, and present the
appearance of having undergone partial dissection, it is
probable that they were subjects which had been used by
these students. It bas not, under these circumstances,
been deemed necessary to hold au inquest upon them.—
Manchester Guardian.
The Dean of Durham is confidently mentioned as
likely to succeed to the Episcopal Throne, vacant by
the elevation to the Primacy.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 17.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
ack at Five o'clock .
THE JEWISH DISABILITIES.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition
from a place in Huntingdonshire in favour of this
Bill ; he said he was at a loss to understand why the
petition had been sent to him for presentation, for
when the Bill came before their Lordships he should
rote against it.
DENUNCIATIONS FROM THE ALTAR.
The Duke of RICHMOND and Lord EGLIN-
TON presented petitions, the latter one from Kent,
praying their Lordships to pass a measure to prevent
priests denouncing persons from the altar.
SUPERANNUATION FUND.
A NOBLE LORD presented a petition in favour of
a superannuation fund for poor-law officers.
DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH ROME,
Lord EGLIN rON gave notice that to-morrow, in
Committee on this Bill, he should move that it
should be illegal for any person in holy orders to act
as Ambassador to this country from the Court of
Rome.

vation which it introduced was that it made those com- y
munications plain, open, and honourable, which here-
torore were neither plain. open, nor honourable. The
Right Reverend Prelate, having paid a tribute of praise
to the eminent qualities of the present Pore, went on to
argue that there was nothing in the religious aspect of
the Bill which should prevent their Lordships from
passing it. He did not pay much regard to the argu-
ment derived from the mode of describing the Bishop of
Rome in the Bill as the ";Sovereign Pontiff" That was
a familiar and common mode of describing him, and
even Protestant ecclesiastical writers constantly and re-
gularly styled him the " Pontiff," or, the " Sovereign
Pontiff." However, he supposed the Government would
alter those words without hesitation.—(Bear, hear.)
With respect to that part of the measure which related
to the accrediting of a minister from Rome here, it
might be right to:introduce a modifying clause, requiring
that the person accredited should not be an ecclesiastic,
oijpossessed of an ecclesiastical character. That was a
concession which he thought fairly due to the feelings of
the people of this country. As a whole, he looked on
the measure as ene required by the circumstances of
the times ; it was essential to the political interests of
the country—it was one attended with no shadow of
danger to the established religion, and therefore he
hoped and trusted that no doubt as to the question of
law would prevent their Lordships from assenting to
it in substance.—(Hear.)
The Bishop of EXETER emphatically denied that
the words " Sovereign Pontiff" were habitually used by
Protestant writers in reference to the Bishop of Rome.
The summus pontY ez was, according to the canon law,
the head of the Church; he was above all patriarchs,
metropolitans, and bishops. But he denied that the
Bishop of Rome was the Sovereign Pontiff. He re-
claimed against the principle laid down by the Right
Reverend Prelate, and which he believed had for the
first time been announced by a Protestant'Prelate in a
British Senate.—(Hear, hear.) There were so many
blots in the present measure that he thought it should
not be allowed to be sent before a Committee. The
plain and safe course which might be adopted by the
Government was, to call the Judges together and take
their opinion on the state of the law. But, instead of
that, they brought in a Bill, and asked for the decision
of the Legislature, which he though an unwise course.
He was strongly opposed to that part of the Bill which
referred to the accrediting of an Ambassador from
the Court of Rome. Other Protestant countries sent
envoys to Rome, and they arranged their diplomatic
business there. Prussia adopted that course, but Prus-
sia did not receive an envoy from Rome. Was London
alone to have the high distinction of being blessed with
a nuncio? Was Rome to raise her scarlet head again
at St. James's? Was that the course of policy which
the Noble Marquis advised the House to adopt? The
time might come when the utmost danger would arise
from having an accredited minister of Rome in London.
His person, by the law of nations, was sacred, and plots
the most mischievous and dangerous to the peace and
safety of the realm might be hatched under his auspices.
They heard a great deal of additional national defences,
and a very great addition to their national defences
would be requires' if the policy now proposed were
adopted. In Ireland the majority of the people were
ready to join any foreign power who would oppose this
'country. He looked upon the present policy, therefore,
as nothing short of treason against the Protestant crown
and the Protestant Church, and would strenuously op-
pose it.—(Hear, hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that her Majesty's
Government desired, in the circumstances of Italy, to
increase and facilitate the means of communication with
the Roman states, and they called on that House to
give a second reading to the Bill. He confessed, when
he first heard of the measure, he considered of it with
some degree of anxiety, for he had upon all occasions in
which he had to make propositions to their Lordships in
relation to the Roman Catholics of this country con-
sidered it his duty to take the utmost care not to touch
on any of the provisions of those laws upon which the
Reformation in this country and the Established Church
depended. It certainly was the intention of those laws
that there should be no communication whatever, poli-
tical or otherwise, between this country and the Sove-
reign of the states of Rome, and these laws remained in
operation at the present time.—(Hear, hear.) A great
alteration was made, however, by the law in-
troduced by the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord
Lyndhurst), called the 9th and 10th Vie, c. 58,
by which the penalties incurred for violating them were
mitigated andein some cases entirely repealed. All the
Noble and Learned Lords who addressed the House on
that occasion stated that the enactments of the law re-
mained the same, but that some of the Acts prohibited
remained misdemeanours at common law. He was satis-
fied with those assurances; but he confessed he felt
anxious about the effect of this measure on those parti-
cular laws. He therefore intended to give notice of a
proviso ensuring the supremacy of the Crown in all
matters spiritual and temporal, and that this should be
always considered inviolable. He considered that such
a proviso would be satisfactory to the country—(Hear,
hear)—and extremely useful in any measures that might
have been adopted under the law as it stood. It had been
suggested to him that it would probably be mare expe-
dient to move an additional clause to the Bill, stating
that nothing therein contained should affect the law
which ensured the supremacy of the Crown in all affairs
ecclesiastical and civil. This he would move in the
Committee on the Bill.—(Hear.) He conceived that the
Government, being desirous to have clear and accurate
information as to the events in Italy, and knowing the
convenience and advantage to b© derived from a regular
diplomatic communication with the Roman States, had
brought forward this measure with a view to remove the
obstacles which the existing laws might present to such
a regular diplomatic communication, it being desirable
that that communication should be carried on in a re-
gular and official form.— (Hear, hear.) If no other ad-
vantage were derived from it, there would be that of
being certain that true intelligence was received from a
responsible agent, and that alone was highly desirable in
a country where her Majesty's subjects bad not such pri-
vileges as they have in some others.—(Hear, hear.)
Under those circumstances he recommended their
Lordships to gigs the Bill a second reading ;
and in the Committee he would move a pro-
viso or an additional clause, providing for the con-
tinued existence of those laws which he thought it
important to maintain inviolate.—(hear.) That clause
would be to the following effect: —" That whereas it had
been enacted and declared, in the provisions of various
ancient laws of this realm, that the Sovereign thereof
had, by and with the advice and under the authority of
both Houses of Parliament, the full and supreme autho-
rity and government in all matters ecclesiastical and
civil within these realms; that whereas those Acts con-
tained provisions having reference to the relations of this
realm with foreign powers; that whereas it was expe-
dient, for the welfare of this realm, that the said provi-
sions with reference to the Crown and government
thereof should be inviolably maintained, and it was
expedient, nevertheless, to remove any doubts that
might exist as to the competency of her Majesty to enter
into diplomatic relations with the Sovereigns of the
Roman States; that therefore it should be enacted;" Sec.—
(Hear.) If their Lordships were of opinion that it would
be more advisable to introduce an enacting clause pro-
viding the same, he should have no objection to move
such a clause.
Lord STANLEY said he had never entertained any
doubt of the uniform sincerity and uprightness of pur-
pose of the Noble Duke who had last spoken.—(llear,
hear.) But it he believed that the rights of the people
of this country, or the rights and privileges of the mo-
narch, were affected by this Bill, or that the pretensions
of the Pope to spiritual preeminence and temporary
authority might be thereby strengthened, no considera-
tion could induce him to consent to the second reading.
But he did not believe that it involved any violation of
the principle on which the Bill of Rights was founded.
—(Hear.) Still, it being well known that for the last
two hundred years intercourse with the Court of Rome
had been prohibited by a strong moral feeling—or, it
might be, by the prejudices of this Protestant nation—
no measure, hastily introduced as this had been, ought to
be hastily carried, or without due consideration by the
country at large.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Marquis
himself, on the part of the Government, had declared,
by the introduction of this Bill, that grave doubts had
existed as to the interpretation of the statutes
alluded to ; and as the practice had, for the last 180
years, been contrary to what this Bill went to sanction,
it was clear that the measure was, to all intents, an
enacting Bill, empowering her Majesty to do what she
could not do as the law previously stood. The Noble
Marquis had assumed that all the current of history
and of opinion was in favour of intercourse with Rome,
prior to the Acts in question ; but this was not so, as
was evinced by the course taken by the Duke of Somer-
set in the case referred to by the Noble Marquis. Then,
as to the policy of the measure, if it were deemed neces-
sary by Government that her Majesty should bo freed
from the existing restrictions, the proper and most dig-
stifled course wonld have been to have introduced the sub-
ject in the Speech from the throne; or, if the necessity was
not then foreseen, at least to have made it the subject
of a special formal message to the House. Instead
of that,:the Noble Marquis had risen, after a debate on
the West India question, and had laid the Bill on the
table (with the same nonchalance as U it had been
nothing more than a turnpike trust 13111.—(Hear, hear.)
Surely that was not the mode in which a great measure
like this should be dealt with; and he hoped their Lord-
ships would not allow it to be hastily slurred over.—
(Hear.) Even, in the interest of the Bill itself, the fullest
opportunity ought to he given for its thorough con-
sideration. The Noble Marquis might at least have
made some communication as to the late proceedings at
the Court of Rome, and have informed their Lordships
what was the result of-he intercourse which had taken
place between Lord Minto and that Court. It might be
said that that intercourse was unofficial; and if there were
really any impediment to this intercourse in existing
Acts of Parliament, Earl Minto, and the Noble Lord at
the head of foreign affairs had placed themselves in a
very difficult position. For in a dispatch dated in Octo-
ber last the Noble Earl was requested by Lord Palmer-
ston to press on the Court of Rome the removal of the
Jesuits from Switzerland, with the view of preventing
war in that country. Earl Minto, in his reply, stated
that he had had some conversation on the sub-
ject with the Cardinal Secretary of State, and said he
should continue to press for the Popes interposition in
the matter. It might be said this was mere conversa-
tion; but, in the face of a law which was presumed to
prohibit diplomatic intercourse, here was an official in-
struction from the Foreign Secretary to Lord Minto to
undertake a certain negotiation, and a regular official
report from that Noble Lord as to;the:result of his repre-
sentations. This correspondence had been officially laid
on the tables of both Houses; and if this intercourse
were not penal under existing Acts, he was at a loss to
know what kind of diplomatic intercourse could bo so.—
(Hear, hear.) It could not be said that this intercourse
was private and confidential; for the Government had
themselves furnished official copies thereof. Hence, as
it was not to be presumcitEthat the Noble Marquis and
his colleagues had knowitidly incurred the penalties of ,

prcemunire, what became of the argument in favour of
the necessity of this measure as a means of facilitating
diplomatic intercourse with the Court of Rome?—(Hear,
hear.) The Noble Marquis had cited an instanee of
direct intercourse with that Court; but this had taken
place at a time when all Europe was involved in war,
and under the pressure of the strongest necessity.
—(Hear, hear.) He did not deny that there might
be conveniences and advantages attending a diplo-
matic intercourse with the Court of Rome •, but it
should be well considered whether there might not be
connected therewith inconveniences and disadvantages
of a still stronger character.—(Hear.) As to the Pope's
spiritual authority in this realm, no one supposed that
the oath of abjuration meant to deny that a very large
class of our fellow-subjects did consider themselves sub-
ject to the spiritual advice and authority of the Pontiff ;
what was implied was this, that the authority in ques-
tion was not such as could be supported by the laws of
this country, but merely one founded in opinion. No
one disputed the authority which a rescript from Rome
would possess over an Irish Roman Catholic bishop. It
was, therefore, idle to allege that this Bill was neces-
sary for the purpose of diplomatic intercourse, in the
light in which that necessity had been represented. The
fact was, the Pope had authority over our Roman
Catholic fellow subjects, and the Government were now
seeking to establish relations with the Pope, in order to
secure his authority being exercised in the least offensive
manner. The Government must admit that this was
the real object of the Bill.—(Hear.) Then arose the
question, did this measure sanction and strengthen
the Papal authority ? If he believed it to hare
that effect, he should directly oppose it. He believed the
present Pope to be a liberal and well-intentioned man;
whether he was a far seeing and discreet man might be
doubted, for he feared he had entered on a course, poli-
tically speaking, which was full of danger. However
this might be, it was evident that no man who had
recently occupied the Papal chair had exercised his
spiritual authority with so high a hand.—(Hear, hear.)
In the case of the Irish colleges the course pursued by
Pius the Ninth was most ill-judged and reprehensible.--
(Hear, hear.) Had this country had diplomatic relations
at that Court, remonstrances might have been offered;
and if these remonstrances had been disregarded, which
was probable, would not that have led to more serious
misunderstrndings with the Court of Rome than if no
such relations had existed ?—(Hear, hear.) Hence, be
doubted whether the inconveniences that might
result from this measure might not outweigh
the probable advantages. Though he was far from
thinking with the Noble Duke (Wellington) that be-
cause the Government had laid this Bill on the table
the House ought to give it a second reading, he wit*
yet willing to allow it to proceed, reserving his right
to give it full consideration afterwards; and he hoped
the Government would allow a sufficient interval for this
purpose, before the Bill passed its remaining stages.
The Noble Marquis had expressed his readiness to adopt
any amendment which might be thought necessary for
giving greater security to the Protestant Church; and
he thanked the Noble Lord on the Woolsack for the
important provisoes which he had suggested. He did
not object to the Bill because it recognised the temporal
sovereignty of the Pope in his own dominions; this bad
already been fully recognised by this country. But he
much doubted whether the recognition was reciprocal.
as the Noble Marquis intimated; for it was undeniable
that claims had been put forward at different times by
the Papacy wholly inconsistent with the temporal autho-
rity of the Queen of England in her dominions.—(Hear,
hear.) He doubted whether it was consistent with the
dignity of a great country like this to enter into diplo-
matic relations with any power, without a clear and ex-
press declaration on the part of that power of the tem-
poral authority at least of our Sovereign.—(Hear, hear.)
Unless such provisions were introduced he should feel
obliged to oppose the Bill. In every other country,
Catholic as well as Protestant, it had been found neces-
sary to place their diplomatic relations with Rome on a
more limited footing than thoSe with any other countrY►
the reason being the extreme difficulty of drawing the
boundary line between the temporal and spiritual au-
thority of the Pope. In the case of Prussia some spe-
cial provisions of the kind he now suggested were made
before entering into diplomatic intercourse with Rome.
With regard to our Ambassador at Rome, the advan-
tages and inconveniences might be nearly balanced; but
if a papal envoy were admitted here, especially if
allowed to combine spiritual and temporal authority.
the probable inconveniences would be very serious; and
the people of this country would require very strong
security against the abuse of such power. This power
ought especially to be guarded with reference
to the admission of bulls and rescripts. As
they were about to introduce a Papal Envoy into this
country, precautions not necessary in Roman Catho-
lic countries ought to be taken to prevent bulls and
rescripts being admitted or permitted to come in which
had not obtained the previous sanction of the Govern'
ment. These were the points to which it was right the
attention of their Lordships should be directed. Some
of these points were calculated to satisfy the apprehen-
sions of the public, and it was on these grounds that,
though he was not prepared to join with the Noble
Duke who had moved the amendment in negativing the
second reading of this Bill, and which amendment he
hoped would not be pressed to a division, still he wished
to see how far the objection to the measure might be
removed in Committee ; but he should reserve to him-
self the entire right to take any course which he might
think expedient on the third reading of the Bill. He
would not now pledge himself to the final adoption of
the measure, but he hoped that, on a matter of so much
importance, worthy, he would not say the prejudices.
but the religious feeling of the people, ample time
woul,l be given for the consideration of the Bill, as it
would stand after the introduction of those amendments
which their Lordships in their wisdom might think fit
to adopt.—(Elear, hear.)
Earl GREY expressed the great satisfaction he felt
that the Noble Lord who bad just sat down, and who
had carefuily scrutinised this measure to discover every
possible defect, found no greater fault with it than the
manner in which it had been introduced. The Noble
Lord said that a measure of such vast importance, in-
volving considerations of serious political consequences,
ought not to have been brought in without in the first
instance having been announced to Parliament by her
Majesty in the speech from the throne, or, at all events,
by a formal message sent by the Crown to both branches
of the Legislature. This objection was unworthy ache
Noble Lord, for it was new to him (Earl Grey) that
such a course was necessary; and if no more serious
fault could be found, he was content to leave it without
any answer. With respect to the introduction of the
Bill, it had been laid upon the table by his Noble Friend
the President of the Council in a manner strictly in ace
cordance with the practice of the House, and his
Noble Friend had, as usual, reserved any explanation
or discussion of the measure until he moved the
second reading, and to-night he had not failed
to lay the case fully and fairly before their Lordships.
The case his Noble Friend had made out must have car-
ried conviction to the mind of almost every individual
who had heard him. But then the Noble Lord opposite
(Lord Stanley) found fault with the short interval which
had been allowed to elapse between the introduction of
the Bill and second reading. He (Earl Grey) owned
that he was astonished that this objection should have
been raised by the Noble Lord, because he himself had
suggested that if a reasonable interval was given before
the second reading, there would be no sort of objection
to proceeding with the Bill in Committee on the fol-
lowing day. The Government had no wish to hurry
the Bill to a discussion, and had allowed a fair interval
to elapse, but not to fix so distant a day for the second
reading that the country might be lashed into a sort of
artificial agitation. After finding these petty faults.
and dealing in this minute sort of criticism, the Noble
Lord had proceeded to make some comments which,
so far from being arguments against the Bill, were in
fact strong arguments in its favour. He had quoted
Lord Minto's dispatches, and argued from them that
already there was clearly a diplomatic intercourse be'
tween Rome and this country, and that if the penalties
of pnemunise had arisen, they bad been incurred by her
Majesty's Government. The Government had never
pretended that Lord Minto had gone to or remained at
Rome on his own pleasure. On the contrary, he was
there for an avowed public object, but the existing state
of affairs prevented him having formal letters to the
Pope. He had no proper authority to act as the repre-
sentative of the British Crown at the Court of Rome.
but at the same time it had never been concealed that he
had taken an active part in the affairs of that country
This was the very case the Government brought forward
in favour of this Bill, as showing the necessity which
had existed and still did exist, for intercourse of S
diplomatic nature between the two countries. The
manner in which that intercourse had hitherto
been carried on, had been most unsatisfactory.
It was of frequent occurrence that the Govern-
ment had to communicate with the Court of Rome in
reference to the ecclesiastical affairs in many of the co'
lonics where the Roman Catholic religion prevailed, and
hence it was of importance this country should have *
recognized representative at Rome. Undoubtedly it
would not have been right to have sent Lord Minto if
the Government had not contemplated the very step
which it had now taked in asking Parliament to put the
intercourse upon a proper footing. The Noble Lord
opposite had said that no Protestant state received as as
envoy from Rome any ecclesiastic, and he had instanced
the case of Prussia. This restriction, however, did not
rest upon the law of Prussia, but simply on the pleasure
of the King and his Government, and on that pleasure
they had declined to receive an ecclesiastic as an ambits*
sador. In the same way, if this Bill passed, it would be
open to the Governmeht of this country, be that Govern-,
ment whom it might, to decline to receive any ambass*"
dor if they thought any inconvenience or danger would
arise from his presence here, and therefore it appeared
to him (Earl Grey) to be unnecessary that the Bill
should contain any such clause of restriction as
that of which notice had been given. It would
be difficult to frame a clause to define who
would be a safe ambassador to be admitted fret*
the Court of Rome, and therefore it was better that
the responsibility should be left upon the Government
for the time being. The clause of which the Noble
Duke at the table (the Duke of Wellington) had given
notice would be a decided improvement in the Bill; for
though he (Earl Grey) thought the Bill was perfect*"
safe as it stood, this clause would make " assuraue:
doubly sure," and tend to allay unnecessary fears whir.
prevailed outside the walls of Parliament. Hence tu_.:
Government gave their adhesion to that clause. Tbere
...
was no other point to which he (Earl Grey) felt it ,1,!„
cessary at present to advert, except as to what had fallen
from a Right Reverend Prelate early in the debatee.
who appeared to him to admit the policy, °P
diency, and legality (under the existing laws) of
_diplo-
matic intercourse with the Court of Rome; for the_ ?he
jection of the Right Rev. Prelate simply was, that the
Bill was unnecessary; and he desired that the opinion
of the judges should be taken as to the law as it act 9,"?;
stood in this respect. Now, according to the forms
oo;
the House, if this Bill had not been before it, it wBl3, not
competent to consult the judges on a questioll