The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-05 00:00:00

BILL.

On the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND,
This Bill was read a third time.
Several amendments were then added by way of
riders, and the Bill was passed.
The third reading of the Certificates for Killing Hares
(S 13i11 was postponed till Thursday next.
'heir L rdships then adjourned till Thursday next.

.IioTISE OF COMMONS, July 4.
El's :UN:Mt:RED ESTATES (IBELAND) BILL.
(Cona.ooed iron our Afternoon E lition of yesterday).
The tiOLIGITOR-GESERAL was very desirous, in
a few words, to explain the objects of the Bill; but as
the principles of the measure had already been amply
discussed, he hoped the House would not raise another
debate upon it before they went into Committee. The
simple object of the Bill was to make land marketable
in Ireland. At present land was not a marketable com-
modity in Ireland, owing, he supposed, to the peculiar
state of the country. From returns which had already
been laid before the House, it appeared, even during the
time of the greatest distress in Ireland. capital was con-
stantly coming over to be invested in this country which
would have been applied to improving the land in Ireland
had the law relating to the transfer of that commodity
been simple and easy of attainment. Under
the present system there were two registries of property,
but they were so exceedingly defective that it was most
difficult and embarrassing in effecting a transfer of
landed property in Ireland. These registries, for in-
stance, contained accounts of the encumbrances which
rested upon the land of Ireland, and before a piece of
land could be sold the vendor was obliged to prove that
all the registered encumbrances had been satisfied. The
complicated nature, however, of the law of mortgaging
in Ireland rendered it extremely difficult and expensive
for the vendor to do so. In this country that difficulty did
not exist, and by this Bill it was proposed so to
simulate the law 'of the two countries that the difficulty
which had hitherto existed in proving that old encum-
brances had been satisfied should be removed. It was
proposed to do this through the medium of the Court of
Chancery, which would have power to order the sale of
encumbered estates upon the owner and purchaser co®_
plying with certain regulations to be established by
this Bill. Provisions had been introduced into the Bill
to prevent anything like an improper or fraudulent sale
of property. It was proposed to give the fullest notice
to every person who might be interested in the property
before any sale could take place, and on it being proved
satisfactorily that these notices had been given the pur-
chase-money was to be paid into the hands of
the Accountant-General. If, however, there should
be any fraud the whole proceedings would be
perfectly bad and void, and the sale might be
set aside at any time when such fraud was discovered.
in fact, would be to give the real
The effect of the Bill,
owners of the property a much better price than they
could obtain under present circumstances, and it there-
fore would be a great boon to the landlords of Ireland.
It had been urged as an objection to the Bill that it
would have the effect of depreciating the
value of property, by throwing
too much
land into the market at once, but that was easily an.
swered, by stating that persons so thinking might delay
the sale until the market price was higher. There
no doubt would be a good deal of legal oppOsition in
that House to the Bill. He was one of the profession, and
considered that it would certainly be the means of taking-
a great deal of business out of their hands—(Laughter)
—but he supported the Bill on public gr'ounds, think-
ing that it would confer a great benefit upoh ' Ire-
land. It would not interfere with any other Bills'
which had been proposed for giving relief to Ireland, it
having been thought desirable to confine it exclusively
to the emancipation of land, and not to incorporate with
it anything with respect to tenant-rights, or
the improvement of land. The Bill would
give to persons a full, expeditious, and safe
mode of investing capital iu Irish lands, and it
was well known that a vast amount of capital through-
out the country was socking for investment at the
present moment. There could be no dOubt that if
persons could get a clear title to property in Ireland it
Would be-the means of bringing a great influx of capital .

THE

to the country, and thus tend in a great degree ;to, im-
prove its condition. He Was sure that there was
but one common] feeling .in the House, tO make it
an efficient Bill, and the Government would be thankful
to receive any suggestion which could make it more per-.
feet, it being a matter of considerable complication and
difficulty. There was a great deal of technicality neces-
sarily involved in the measure, but the Government had
endeavoured to avoid that as much as possible, in order
to lay down broad and intelligible principles.. He,
therefore, was of opinion that it would fully meet the
object it was intended to accomplish without doing
serious injury to any person, and trusted that it would
receive the general approbation of the House.—(Cheers.)
Mr. NAPIER deprecated the provisions of the Bill,
which he said would be destructive to the sacred rights
of property in Ireland. The real effect of it would be to
compel the sale of every estate in Ireland, because there was
no estate in that country which, under the designation
contained in the Bill, would not be considered an encum-
bered estate. The Bill, therefore, would be appli-
cable to every estate ; and a more reckless
and injurious measure, and one more ruin-
ous in its ultimate result, he could not conceive.
In the Court of Chancery, he understood that a pur-
chaser is not expected to complete his purchase, unless
it could be shown that the title which was about to be
vested in him was good; but wader the Bill this salu-
tary power would not. prevail.—(Hear.) He denied
that the Bill would be a boon to the landlords of
Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) They could not be too careful
with respect to right titles, because if they did not do so,
endless litigation would be the result. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman they gave several technical and legal
grounds to show that the Bill would operate most injuri-
ously, if not ruinously, on the landed interest of Ireland.
He had the authority of Sir Edward. Sugden for saying,
that proceeding by means of a bill instead of a petition,
as provided by this measure, were the most inexpensive
and conclusive.—(Cheers.) He felt it his duty to oppose
the Bill.

Mr. MONSELL said it would bo a matter of sincere
regret if it went forth to the public that the sentiments
enunciated by the Hon. Gentleman who had just re-
sumed his seat were those entertained by the majority
of Irish Members—(Hear, hear)—because the Bill, he
sincerely believed, would be the means of mitigating
much of the misery that prevailed among the tenants on
encumbered estates in Ireland. When the House
considered the condition, the social position of Ire-
land, they would pause, he was sure, before they
threw out this Bill, which was looked to as their only
means of relief by the poor. If in other countries the.
onus probandi rested with those who desired change, in
Ireland the onus probandi rested with those who wished
to preserve a System fraught with the greatest
misery. Having read the testimony.. •of Mr.
Booth in support of his view, he proceeded
to say, .if landlords and tenants knew: their
interests and wished to, promote Their-welfare, they.
would agree in desiring such a'retnedy as' this, in order
that the present system might be Vitt :an it'd to."
(Hear, hear.) The Honourable 4nii, Learned Gentle-
man said such a measure &lila only -bos Justified
by .an " overwhelming neeeseity.";,4(Elear.); Whitt:
did he mean by snch A. staternent? ' Sufely'a44;" over-
whelming necessity" existed for thianietitser4aat the pre-
sent Moment—(Hear, hear)Hfor the State.' Of things _in
Ireland were such .as to threaten ,a broodylevolutien.
They had to consult the interests Of' theliviegrat4er.
than those of the dead, or the Indefinite ;wislep
terity.—(Elear, hear.) The landlord Would derive little
advantage from The sale of his estate; 11‘ could not
commit any...trickery in respect of it, neither'could. he
expend the money it Might- lettliee' as",.he tkioight pro- .
per, .as it was to. be paid lure' the Court, of Chan.
cery, and appropriated to those who hat thegreatest claims to the proceeds.' Ile eonsidered that the
selling of small portions would also tend to. the,
advantage of the country,.because it was most essential
that a class of persons having an interest ihthe same,.l
should be fostered.-7(Hear.) He ',hoped the; Got4l-ii.:-.1
ment would pass the measure with all COnveithint haste,..
but not, however, without listening te'- all reasonatle
amendments.
Sir GEORGE GREY hoped' :the would
rise (the time being halt-past three) tleitik.'ll4,
o'clock, as the Speaker -had been some tin* tes'ilie:
chair and would Most likely occupy iklasany hinfritafter '
the House resumed. He shoulds.vs,AlTiday mention a
..
day for preceeding with' the Bill.
Mr. -B. OSBORNE `-deprecated the speech 'OrAlte
Honourable Baronet the Member forYClare (Sir Lucius.
O'Brien), as a 'party " move" artd,r4nite foreign to the
subject before the House, as he had related ;anecdotes
to the House which had no...relation to the: subject
before it, and then concluded with an amendMent.- kle
hoped- the House-, would decidsk that amendment
before they rose.-(Hear, li;a:r.)
Mr. GROGAN-suggested 'that the' Bill should be.re-
feired to a Qounnittee upstairs; where all the minute
.points in the measure could be disetisse& -
Sir G. GREY hoped the Muse would 'con.ieht to rel.:
neve the Speaker. As lie'belidved the Hkaa, -Baronet
did not intend to proceed with his amenchnentt he hoped
ho would withdraw it.--(Nck no.). Well,-Ite ;rei-
new it before they-went into Conitaittee;:if he 111 Ought
proper. ,
, . .
Sir L. O'BRIEN declined
.to withdrave his amend-
ment.=(Crins Of "Adjourn," '‘.l)ivide:"),..
Mr. HENLEY:moved the adjournment of the debate:,
The SPEAKER put the Motion, tuad. as there were a
great many'44 styes," and a nuniber of "Imes," the
leries were,cletired for:adiviaiOn; hut notaosiotok place.
The House then arljouined'until Riirs,ce:clock

The SPEAKER resumed Vhe ,Chair at a Quarter past
Five o'clock. .
LEGAL EDUCATION.

Mr. G. A; HAMILTON asked4he Attorney-General
whether steps bate been taken by her Majesty's Go-
vernment, or by the Inns of Court, or the King's Inn,
Dublin, to give effect to any of the recominenJations
with respect to the improvement of legal education
contained in the report of the Select Committee on that•
subject, presented 25th of August, 1846. Also, whether
it is intended to introduce any measure by which Irish
barristers may be authorised, to practise in courts i❑
England, and English barristers in courts in Ireland,•
in which they are now by law competent to preside, or
by which a reciprocity of practice in the profession in
both countries may be established.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied that it was
not the intention of the Government to introduce any
measure on the subject, and that it was not a matter
which came within the province of the Government.