The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P RL lAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, .11ety 7.
In the absence of the LORD CHANCELLOR, the Earl o
SHAFTESBURY took the Chair at Fire o'clock.
SCOTTISH FREE CHURCH.

Lord CAMPBELL said he had petitions to present of very
great importance to the country, from certain inhabitants of
Edinburgh and Paisley, praying for the interference of the
House in a matter in which they were deeply interested. They
said that there were certain religious questions in Scotland
which excited great disagreement, and that members of the
Free Church were not allowed to purchase lands for the erec-
tion of churches for any purpose. They were quite
ready to give reasonable remuneration for any land
which might be required for the erection of churches ;
but in some cases, where one great proprietor held
the whole of the land in the parish, they could not obtain any
quantity of land whatever. If such were the case, he thought
t was a reasonable ground for the interference of their Lord-
lips, as they had interposed and given their sanction to an
nvasion of private property in the case of railroads, where
.he companies merely sought permission for travelling with
greater facility from one part of the country to the other.
Phis was a ease of infinitely greater importance, and if the pe-
itioners made out their east, he should feel no difficulty what •
seer in assenting to the principle they had adopted, and sup-
sorting a Bill for making it law.
FACTORIES BILL.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition frem the Dissent-
ng ministers of Wigan'in favour of the Ten Hours' Factory Bill.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL.
The Earl of CLARENDON presented a petition against
he Charitable Trusts Bill.
THE PORT OF LIMERICK.
The Duke of BUCCLEUCH laid on the table certain
capers relative to the improvement of this harbour.
The Marquis of LANSDO WNE presented a petition from
he mayor, aldermen, and burgesses of Limerick, praying that
steps might be taken for the improvement of the harbour of
That town.
Lord MONTEAGLE presented several petitions in favour
of the Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, the Midland Counties,
Ind other railways.
THE OFFICE OF HIGH CONSTABLE.
The Duke of BUCCLEUGH presented a petition from the
city of Westminster against certain provisions in relation to
that city and liberty in the Bill proposed for the regulation
sf the office of high constable, and praying to be heard by
their agents and counsel against the Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND stated it was not his intention
to press that part of the Bill.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL.
Lord COTTENHAM presented several petitions against the
Charitable Trusts Bill.
Lord STANLEY presented a petition from Lancashire to
the same effect ; also a petition from the same place against the
sale of spirituous liquors on Sunday.
CORN-LAWS.
Lord ASHBURTON moved for the returns of some papers
with reference to the corn-laws, which he thought would facili-
tate the progress of that measure when before their Lordships .
He was not at all wishing to open up a discussion about the ex•
aediency of passing such a measure. If they did pass it, he
wished them to do it with their eyes open, as it was one in
which not only the agricultural portion of the community was
interested, but in fact every class in the country. The motion
he had to make was for the purpose of ascertaining
the quantity of corn in bond. The last time
they had a return, the amount of wheat was
1,200,00 quarters, and the quantity of flour was about
700,000 or 800,000 barrels. He had also to move for a return
of every hundred pounds' worth of tithe received under the
Tithe Commutation Act, from the passing of that Act down
to 1845. He hoped there would be no objection to such a
motion.
Lord BROUGHAM entirely concurred with his Noble
Friend, and, differing from him as he did on other matters,
he rejoiced to be able to agree with him on this. —( Laughter.)
He was undoubtedly of opinion that the result of the measure
that would shortly come before their Lordships would have
the effect of lowering the price of grain, inasmuch as a much
greater quantity of grain would be introduced into the English
market. He had no desire, however, to anticipate the disscus
lion that would arise on that measure, and he would, there-
fore, postpone any arguments which he had on the ques-
tion till the proper time arrived. Ile would, at the same
time, express d Lope that their Lordships, who were
appointed to inquire into the burdens on land, would lose no
time in laying their report before their Lordships, believing,
as be did, that a more important report had never been laid on
the table of their Lordships' House.
Earl FITZWILLIAM thought it would be desirable for
their Lordships to have a statement similar to that which was
'asked for by the Noble Lord (Lord Ashburton), of the corres-
ponding periods, as far back as the time when the last Corn
Bill but one (1828) passed, and he should move an amendment
to that effect.
Lord ASHBURTON said that in the last year the quantity
in bond was 430,000 quarters ; the year before that 220,000 ;
the year before that 245,000; then 124,00 0; then 132,000;
then 257,000; and so on up to the year 1838.
Lord BROUGHAM suggested that it should be ascertained
whether corn was at such a price as to be importable at the time
these returns were made.
Lord ASHBURTON said that the returns were from the
months of October and December in each year, when the
farmer held most of his corn in hand, and at that season ci rn
was exported from abroad for this country. The corn dealers
on the Baltic found all the ports between their country and
ours shut against them, and consequently their supplies came
to the British ports.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM said there never was's.) great a quan-
tity in bond as at the present moment. .It was now better than
four months since this measure was first introduced ihto
Parliament, and he would leave it to their Lordships whether
the; :real •nature of the measure had not been well known
two months before that time ; so that there was a period of six
monthi sineethis measure was 'first brought under the notice of
;the which time no merchant in his senses would
take,a-single.Nuarter out of bond.
. The Duke of RICHMOND wished to correct his Noble
'Friend the Earl Fitzwilliam in one point. It was well known
that the British farmer never 'brought his corn to market until
it was in the best condition. Now, it was also known that
English corn required some time to be laid up, and the
influence of frost, to bring it into condition. The late
season had been unusually mild, and there was, in con-
sequenee, never a greater qtlantity of corn in the hands
of the farmer than there was at the present moment. It was
always kept up in the hope of obtaining better
prices, and there was in fact at this particular
time a great quantity of grain waiting for disposal.
He did not think the Bill would pass, but if it did pass, be
would do all he could to protect those farmers who had large
stocks of wheat on hand. He must protest against those No-
ble Lords who said that the question was settled. He did not
think so. He could not believe that Noble Lords on the oppo-
site side could so suddenly turn round, or that those on the
other side, who had advocated a fixed duty, would now give it
up in favour of the Bill before the other House.
Lord BROUGHAM did not think the question settled, but
whether settled or not, 'he would give a little advice. He
would strongly. advise those who had large stocks on hand to
bring their wheat to market as if it was settled.—( A laugh.)
Earl GREY differed with the Noble Duke. He believed
that the farmers were suffering greatly through this delay.
They would be exposed to this deluge of foreign corn, from the
importation having been dammed up for six months, instead of
the market receiving gradual supplies. The suffering of the
farmers had arisen from the want of foreign wheat to mix up
with, the. produce of last harvest, which was generally of
an inferior quality. It could not be ground sinless
mixed up with old or foreign wheat; .and the state of things
had been such.that the necessary supply of foreign wheat was
not forthcoming. In the north of England the wheat of lait
harvest was generally inferior in quality, and millers were pre-
vented from grinding it from want of foreign wheat. It would
have been a great advantage to the country if the ports had
been opened in November or December last.
Lord BEAUMONT was anxious that there should be no
delay in producing those returns. He hoped next week to be
able to lay on their Lordships' table the report of the Com-
mittee of which he was Chairman. At the same time he hoped
that whatever might be the result of that measure the labours
of the Committee would not be altogether lost.
The motion was then agreed to.
RELIGIOUS OPINIONS BILL.

The B shop of EXETER consented to postpone the mo-
ion of which he had given notice for to-day, until Monday

DR. REID'S VENTILATION.
The'Marquis of CLANRICADE wished to know whether
there would be any impediment in the way of allowing Mr.
Gurney to have some part of the new Houses appropriated to
him, for the purposes of ventilation, that their Lordships might
be able to judge of the plan proposed ? The Commissioners
had. not yet made ther report upon this subject.
Lord CAMPBELL complained of the serious annoyance
caused to their Lordships by Dr. Reid's system of ventilation;
that annoyance became worse and worse' every day. When he
'entered their Lordships' House that morning he could scarcely
breathe the air, and he only wished that Dr. Reid might him-
self be compelled to breathe it for two hours. Thus he (Lord
Campbell) knew that it was utterly impossible for that
gentleman to make the air worse than he had already
made it.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that Dr. Reid had
acquired great reputation as a ventilator, ar.d he apprehended
that their Lordships would have no objection to accede to the
very seasonable request of that gentleman, viz., that he should
be allowed the use of one room in the new House of Lords, in
which to experimentalise.

WESTERN AUSTRALIA BILL.
Lord STANLEY moved the second reading of this Bill.
For several years there had been no indications of a wish for a
change in the Government. In 1829 that colony was founded,
and, with the exception of 1837, there had never been any
wish for a change. Sines that period, however, there had
been an indication of a wish for change.
Earl GREY could not help expressing his surprise and regret
at the principle of the Bill, which had just been introduced by
her Majesty's Government, and he still more regretted the
opinions of his Noble Friend who had just sat down. In the
course of last session a very important debate had occurred in
the other House of Parliament, during which the Right lion.
Baronet who held the weighty office of first Member of the
Government had propounded the doctrine that the colonies had
bettor be loft to the Government themselves ; that, with some
modifications the principle of representation ought, to be in-
troduced into all our dependencies. especially New Zealand. If
this was true with regard to New Zealand, it was more espe-
cially true with respect to Western Australia. His Noble
Friend had said that until within a few years nothing like a
sentiment of discontent had been evident in the colonies. Bnt
that such discontent did exist now was allowed. He trusted,
therefore, that no measure would be allowed to become law
without first consulting the colonists themselves. Unless means
were taken to put the colony on a proper and popular footing,
it would be impossible to develop the resources of the colony in
the way that was desirable.
Lord LYTTELTON thought that time
should be allowed for
due deliberation. If they legislated hastily on the matter, it
might be the cause of more evil than was sought to be reme-
died. At least they ought not to take any step that would in-
crease the expenses of the colony, without consulting those who
were resident there.
Earl GREY remarked, that popular forms of govern.
:Went had been carried out with great effect in Nova Scotia,
New Brunswi k, and many of the West India islands.
The Duke of RICHMOND said the horrible state of things
that prevailed in Australia ought to be met with a remedy. If
the Government was not prepared with a measure to remedy
those evils by the end of the session, he, as an independent
Peer, would consider it his duty to move fer a Select Commit•
tee to inquire into the whole affairs of the colony, with the eb-
'ect of providing a remedy.
Lord LYTTELTON said the subject had occupied the
attention of the Government for a considerable period. He
was not, however, prepared at that time to announce any de-
cision they had come to upon the subject.
The Bill was then read a second time.

RAILWAY DEPOSITS BILL.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE moved the third reading of the
Railway Deposits Bill.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL.
Earl ST. GERMANS proposed that this Bill, which hp,d
been brought up from the.other House, should be read a second
time en Monday next.
The Bill was then read a first, and ordered to be read a
mond time oa Monday next,