The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-06 00:00:00

improvement were suggested, without there having been
any steps taken to accomplish those measures. He thought it I
was the duty of that House to prove to the men who formed
their army, and who underwent such severe service in our
colonies, that they would endeavour by some arrangement
to enable those men to spend a fair proportion of their time
of service within this kingdom.
Mr. MAC AUL A Y thought that the pressure of ser-
vice on the troops at the present time was certainly
severe, and he concurred with the Noble Lord who had
just sat down, that means should be taken to relieve the
troops. But he begged at the same time to remi ml his
Noble Friend, that the Government were not altogether to
flame for the imputations which the Noble Lord had thrown
out against them, for not having relieved the troops of the
pressure complained of. Subsequently to the time when the
Noble Lord gave those promises, to which he ( Lord Howick )
had adveltsd, five thousand additional troops were raised,
and f r that measure two reason? were asigned—the dis-
turbed state of the country, and the necessity of granting
some relief to the troops. Happily one of th-se reasons,
the disturbed state of the country, now no longer existed;
and if they were oily to look to the internal aid supplied
for the preserving the peace of the cour4ary, they
might well spare the additional five thousand men
to relieve the troops abroad. With the gene-
ral principles which were laid down on the sub-
ject he (Mr. Macaulay) fully agree& But he thought
that if the country we.e so tranquil as that they coull
spare not oily every soldier but every policeman, it would
be irnposible to prevent a pressure on the troops to a
greater or less extent. Tlo question fur the Government
to consider was whether it was reasonable in the present
state of things that the system now in existence should
continue or not.

Captain BOLD ERO did not think that the number of
troops was at all sufficient for the exigencies of the coun-
try. He would code wour to base a Select Committee
appointed to ttkeoffthe warrant which altered the pensions.
That warrant was working detrimentally to the service.
Lord ARTHUR LENNOX thought the present
would be a good opportunity to inquire of the Master-
General of Ordnance, whether it was iutenled to issue
percussion firelocks to the army, as the old locks were
found to be very inefficient.

Sir H. VIVIAN said be thought the question would
have been more appropriately put when the Ordnance
Estimates were Eefore the House; and as he hope] to
bring them forward on Monday, he would beg leave to
defer answering the question to that dal. With respect
to what had just fallen from Hon. Members, t e admitted
the pressure on the army, and thought the system of reliefs
was a mistaken one, and one which required well looking
into, and new arrangement.
M. MA CAUL A Y said that during the last year a
measure had teat adopted, which, although it did not facili-
tate the relief corps would greatly facilitate the relief of
individual.

Sir 11. HARDINGE sail he quite agreed with what
had fallen from the Noble Lord (Lord Hoyt ick), and was
perfectly satisfied with the result of the debate. He agreed
with the Master-General of the Ordnance, that he thought
the whale system of reliefs ought to be examined; but he
hoped it would not be thought that aay blame attached to
the Quartermaster-General, whose particular duty it was
to attend to the reliefs. He was sure that no officer in
the service had performed his duty more faithfully than the
Quartermaster- General.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said he differed a little in
opinion as to the tone adopted on this subject by the Right
Hon. Gentlemen. which, however, ho attributed alto-
gether to a zeal for the service ; but he did not think it
quite consistent wish the existing law to argue the
question as if it was a grievance to the army.—
( Hear, hear.) Everybody admitted the advantage
of a good system of relief ; but he did not think either
officers or mea Felt the inconvenience of the present sys-
tem in the degree intimated by the tone adopted in the
House ; and if it were so he would suggest the propriety
of not adopting such a tone. He merely wished to throw
it out as a suggestion.
Sir H. HARDINGE said ho was surprised that the
Gallant Officer should censure him for interference when
he rose as a Member of that House to discharge what he
conceived to be his duty to the service. He was not
aware that there was anything objectionable in the tone he
had adopted, and as he considered it to be a calm and proper
one, he hoped, whenever he should again choose to exercise
his right as an independent Member, it would be in the
same tone as the. he had used on the present occasion.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said, the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had entirely mistaken him. He (Sir De Lacy
Evans) was not aware that he had said one word about the
interference of the Gallant Officer in the affairs of the
army.—( [leer, hear.) He had merely said, that he be-
lieved the Gallant Officer was actuated by zeal for the
service, and good motives, but that he (Sir De L. Evans)
objected, as he had a right to do, to the tone which he had
adopted, which he thought was not calculated to excite
good feeling in the army. He might have been in error,
but that was his opinion.—( Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Sir H. VERNEY, which were
not heard in the gallery,

Mr. FIUME said, he wished to offer a little advice to
the Secretary at War as to the mode of remedying these
complaints, which he thought he could convince the
House were owing to mismanagement, and not to be reme-
died by increasing our forces. Our army consisted of
92,000 men, 46,000 of whom were at home. There were
quite sufficient for relief, if all had their regular turns
of service, which he thought it was but fair and proper
they should have.
After a few words from Mr. H AWES,

Colonel RAWDON took the opportunity of noticing
the great diminution of force in Ireland. There were now
8,000 men less in that country than in the year 1830.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was for a sum of 3,510,7741., for the pay-
ment of the land forces of the United Kingdom.
Mr. HUME asked if the sum of 10,7951., which ap-
peared in the estimate, under tho head of postage, was
for postage alone ?
Mr. MACAUL AY said that it included the expense
of stationary and other charges.

The vote was then agreed-to.
On the motion that 167,4491. be granted for the payw,
staff officers on foreign stations.
Mr. H UME said that, as no one had thought proper
to bring before the House the conduct of Lord Hill in re-
spect to the 11th Dragoons, which had caused great ex-
citement, and given great scandal throughout the country,
he thought that was the proper opportunity for calling the
attention of the House to the subject. Although the matter
had not been alluded to in the House, public opinion had been
strongly expressed upon it. The Press on all sides had
done its duty. He thought it right to declare his opinion
that the conduct of the Secretary at War had been
highly culpable, seeing how public feeling had been out-
raged and irritated : and what had been the conduct of the
Commander-in-Chief towards Lord Cardigan, who had
commanded his regiment in such a way that no man,
having the feelings of a gentleman, could serve under
him. He ( Mr. 11.) blamed Lord Hill more than Lord
Cardigan—( Hear and a laugh)--for his laxity in some
cases, and his severity in others.—( Hear.) He should like
to see a return laid on the table of the House of how many
officers had left the regiment in consequence of Lord Car-
digan's conduct, and how many had got leave of absence,
rather than they should be allowed to sell out or throw up
their commissions, which would bring additional odi am
upon the corps.—(Hear, hear.) Conduct more likely
tir injure the service of the country ha had neve r
seen in a long life of attention to public affairs,
and it was his conviction that no officer could enter
the regiment under Lord Cardigan, without writing the
word " slave " upon his forehead. ( Hear, hear.)
He had brought to a court-martial an officer of twenty-
six years' standing, who bad received the appro-
bation and commendation of every superior under who.n
he had served, ura:l lie came into contact with Lord Car-
digan. There had been a court-martial upon another
officer, and he would ask any honest man who attended to
the proceedings whether he did not anticipate a different
result?—( Hear, hear.) He thought the whole conduct
of the Commander-in- Chief was unjust and injurious to
her Majesty's service ; but he did not so much blame that
Noble Lord as the Secretary at War, at whose door he
thought all tha blame should bo laid.—( Hear and a laugh. )
Mr. M ACAUL Y regretted that a subject which
bad excited so much irritation throughout the
country should be brought ft r ard under present
circumstance. —(llear, hear.) He had not now an op-
portunity of entering into the matter fully. But he would
endeavour, without g'ving offence to any one, to state the
principles which governed her Majesty's Ministers in the
course they had pursued, and which, he had no doubt,
would be approved of as soon as the irritation upon tic
subject should subside. In the first place he would a.k the
lion. Member for Kilkenny, whether there was any thing
in the whole matter whereupon to raise an imputation
against her Majesty's Government ?—( Hear, hear.) Was
Lord Cardigan a partisan of the Government? —( Hear,
hear.) Miniatars could not be accused of party f,vour to
that officer.—( Hear, hear.) But wer .! they to be c`sargeil
with cowardice ?—( Hear, hear.) Why ? There was no
difference of opinion amongst the press. Was there any
difference of opinion amongst the public generally ?
( Hear, heir.) Could Lord Cardigan go on a railway
train without being hissed by the rassengers ?—( Hear.)
Could he go into a theatre without having the whole audi
once sot upon him?—( Hear, hear.) Could Probart,
after the murder, or Hare, after the trial
at Edinburgh, be more hunted down ?—( Hear, hear.)
Was it cowardly of the Government not to take adven-
t age of that unpopularity of a political opponent ?
( Hear, hear)—especially when the matter had been de-
termined by a General who had led tha British armies in
many a field, and had filled the office of Commander-in-
Chief under several administrations of different political
parties.—( Hear, hear.) That distinguished General was
decidedly of opinion that there was no case before him for
instititiiting a court-martial upon Lord Cardigan. Was
the Government then to put him upon half-pay, or to dis-
miss him without any court-martial ?—( Hear, hear, heir )
Were they to put him upon half-pay as a punishment ?
( Cheers. ) He ( Mr. M.) would never agree to the prin-
ciple that half-pay was to be a punishmeet —( Cheers)
—because half-pay was intended partly as a reward for past
and partly as an earnest for future services.—( Loud
cheers.) The alternative then was dismissal from
the service or a court-martial : and it was the
opinion of Lord Hill that there was no ground for a
court-martial.—( Hear, hear.) The Crown had, and in
his opinion, ought to have, the prerogative of dismissal
from the service without giving a reason. But it was a
prerogative which ought not to he lightly exercised.
lie would venture to say that this was the first time in the
history of this count-y in which the Minister of the
Crown had not dismissed f om the service of the Crown
an unpopular Nobleman who always voted against them.
He would give no judgment on Lord Cardigan's conduct;
all he contended for wa', that the Government had been
throughout actuated by the purest motives, and he was
sure before many months should have elapsed that those
who were now the loudest in their condemnation would
admit the justice of their conduct.---( Cheers.)
Mr. HUME had not blamed the Governmeat for not
dismissing Lord Cardigan without a court-martial. He
had again and again declared his opinion that no effiei-e.
ought to be dismissed without a court- martial; but was
there no alternative? Could they not have instituted a
Court of Inquiry to ascertain if those complaints