The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-19 00:00:00

THE FACTORIES' REGULATION BILL.

The House then resolved itself into Committee on the
Factories Regulation Bill, and resumed the debate on the
clause adjourned from the early sitting.
Mr. G. W. WOOD was understood to support the
amendment of the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Ex.
chequer.
After a few words from I\fr. 13AOTHERTON and Mr.
FINCH,
Mr. BRISCOE supported the amendment.

Mr. STRICKLAND was convinced that there never
was a stronger case made out in this world demanding the
interference of the Legislature ; and he could not in his
conscience refuse that protection up to the age of eighteen.
He objected to an Eight Hours Bill allowing the working
of double sets, as tending to interfere with adult labour,
by inducing the working of grown persons for the whole
time of the two sets of children. He was told that if
they interfered with the labour of children in our facto-
ries, we should be unable to maintain our manufacturing
superiority in foreign countries. He was not one of those
who believed that any part of the prosperity of this country
rested upon such a basis as that of deforming the limbs and
destroying the health of little children.—(Cheers.) He
was of opinion that whatever might be the specious rea-
sonings of philosophers, there was an overruling power
under whose guidance and protection they should never
do wrong while they were prompted by the desire to "do
justice and love mercy."—(Hear.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE contended that the evidence upon
which the proposition of his Noble Friend (Lord
Ashley) stood was an unswerable demand upon the House
to pass the Bill. He was of opinion from the observa-
tion he had made that the boasted Reformed House of
Commons had not ranch popularity to spare; and,
without wishing them to pander to popular opinion, he
recommended them to endeavour to earn back the good
opinion of the country by passing this measure as it stood.
Mr. WILBRAHANI supported the amendment of the
Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was
opposed to the Bill of the Noble Lord (Ashley) because
it did not go far enough, but especially because all the
manufacturers were opposed to it.
Colonel TORRENS contended that any Legislative
enactment upon the question must he injurious, unless the
whole of our commercial system were revised.
A MEritnEa, whose name we could not learn, said he
would have supported the measure if he had thought it
likely to afford relief to the children, but he was con-
vinced it would be injurious if all its provisions were
carried. He should support the proposition of the
Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Mr. R. POTTER said he would detain the Committee
but for a few minutes. The Hon. Member for the
Northern Division of Yorkshire said he was not aware of
any attempt to agitate. When this subject was before
the House a fortnight ago, he (Mr. Potter) gave the
House a pretty fair example of the kind of efforts used in
Yorkshire to produce agitatio❑ ; for that exposure he
had bad no small portion of abuse heaped upon him ;
but if the authors of that abuse thought to intimidate him
from the discharge of his duty, they were greatly mis-
taken. The Gallant Colonel, as well as his Hon. Friend
the Member for Salford, had connected this subject with
the repeal of the Corn Laws; but he would venture to
predii.t that almost every Gentleman who had spoken in
favour of the Bill, would be as strenuous opponents of
their repeal as they were supporters of this measure.
The Hon. Member for Stamford read some evidence to
the House to show that there was ❑o fear of foreign com-
petition; but if the House would give him its attention
for a very short period, be should be able to show,
that not only was there great fear of foreign competi-
tion, but that it was in full operation. Machinery was
now made in France, and other places, upon the most
approved and newest plans. It appeared by official docu-
ments, that spinning and the cotton manufactory were
rapidly on the increase, not only on the continent, but
in the United States of America. By the official returns
made to Congress in 1832, it appeared that the United
States had consumed in the previous year, 77,557,316
pounds weight of cotton, and had 795 mills, in which were
1,246,503 spindles at work. It further appeared that
the whole spun in England in 1822 was 222,596,907 lbs;
of this 71,662,850 lbs. were exported, of which only,
162,798,270 lbs. were sent to the Continent of Europe.
The Continental establishments spun 99,038,762 lbs. in
the same year, and we exported to them only 62,798,270
pounds. It could not be supposed that our smaller quantity
would govern the prices of their greater in the market.
In France, Switzerland, Prussia, and the Rhenish Pro-
vinces, Saxony, Lombardy, Austria, arid India itself,
cotton spinning was increasing. So much for foreign com-
petition. When this Bill was first introduced, be took
occasion to observe, that many of its provisions were so
objectionable, that if passed into a law, a blow would be
struck at the cotton trade of this country, from which it
might never recover. He rejoiced that the Noble Lord
who introduced the Bill, now proposed to leave out the
objectionable clauses. He also rejoiced that the discussion
was carried on with that calmness which its great im-
portance deserved.
Mr. A. SANDFORD thought it impossible to have two
sets of laws for juvenile and adult labour in our factories.
He should therefore vote for the amendment proposed by
the Noble Lord (Althorp).
Mr. FRYER contended that the evil was one which
demanded a remedy, but that the remedy now proposed
Was not the right one. The only remedy was a destruc-
tion of the monopoly of food now held by the landed pro•
prietors. It was impossible that things could continue
in their present state ; a change must take place, and the
chances were that that change would be a revolution in
that House, or out of it. It would rest altogether with
the House to determine by their acts whether that revolu-
tion should be peaceable, or whether it should terminate
in bloodshed and violence.—(Hear.) The people might
well be supposed to have a great and paramount interest

a sanguinary, but he was confident they would prefer a

paceable, revolution.—(Hear.) In the first place the
rational Debt would be wiped of.—(A laugh.) The
rouse might laugh ; but did they suppose the people did
pt think of such an event? In the next place the Church

istablishaient and the tithes would be wiped away ; not
Ise religion, that the people loved.—(Hear, hear.) Then

r!,e whole nest of siliccurcs would be ferretted out, as well
all the abominable monopoly of sugar, taniiir, and co: n.
oid the House consider how the case was circumstanced ?
u p pose in a winter of distress and poverty, a few
hold men should incite their fellows to resist the military
in some great town, and that the military were beaten (an
event by no mcans improbable), in an hour all Englan-i
,ould rise in arm9,—(A laugh.) What then wont
iecome of the Members of that House?—(Hear.)
chat would become of the Nobles of the lind ?—(Hear,
ear, hear.) They would at once be exterminated. An
lid they suppose the people would matter the loss of a few
tines if for such a purpose?—(A laugh.) With regard
o the measure before the House, he had only to say lie
could support it, although it was a contemptible Bill, a
iltry delusion.—(A laugh.) Ministers acted on the
resent occasion es they had done in the case of the Irish
Church Bill. They basely truckled to their opponents
becau.se they found themselves too weak to resist them.
--(Hear.) By a sneaking pickpocket scheme they had
robbed the Irish Church of 60,0001. to pay the vestry
cess; and when once they admitted the principle of
spoliation they might quite as well have robbed it of six
millions.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In conclusion, the Hon.
Member would vote for the Bill because he was confident
it would either be evaded or would altogether stop trade;
~nd if the latter event took place, the master manufactu-
rers would at once join with the people in calling for a
repeal of those cursed, damnable corn laws.—(Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would give his support
to the amendment of his Noble Friend.

Mr. HARDY would only look to the medical evidence.
;n deciding upon the question before the House. He con-
ended it was perfectly absurd to say that a child under
thirteen years of age should not work more than eight
!lours, svhiie a child but one day above that age should
;work twelve hours, No man, with the feelings of a fa-
ther, could suffer persons between the ages of thirteen and
eighteen to work in the same way as he would work
adults. He trusted the House would do impartial justice
to those poor children, and extend them that protection
which they so much required.
Mr. P. THOAISON was opposed to the clause as being
too great an interference with adult labour, while it did
not adequately protect the infant. He would therefore
support the amendment of his Noble Friend.
Mr. PEASE felt it his duty to support the amendment
of the Noble Lord, and if the provisions of Sir J. Hob-
house's Act had been property enforced, the evils at present
complained of never would have existed.

Mr. FIELDEN made some observations which were in-
audible i❑ the gallery.
Mr. BOLLING denied that the cruelties attributed by
the promoters of the Bill to the factory system existed i❑
any of those factories in which the provisions of Sir J. C.
ilohhouse's Act were enforced. But whose fault was it.
that it had not been enforced ? Was it not the fault of the
very persons who now put themselves forward as the
lriends of humanity ?—(Hear, hear.) Even now, if Sir
J. Flobhouse's Act were carried into effect under the su-
perintendence ot proper inspectors, the evils of the factory
system would be removed, and he thought it would be
much better to adopt that course than legislate upon evi-
dence so defective as that on which the present measure
was founded. For his part he dissented from both pro-
positions, and his reason was because be was convinced
the interference was not called for on behalf of the pro-
per class. He thought, instead of passing this Bill, they
would act more prudently in postponing the subject for
a year, in order to ascertain whether the evils complained
of might not he remedied by the application of Sir J,
flobhouse's Act.—(Cries of " Move, move.") The Hon.
Member said that i❑ compliance with the wish of the
house be should take an opportunity of submitting his
proposition for their decision.
Sir G. PHILLIPS should support the amendment.
Mr. GISBORNE suggested whether it would not be
better now to dispose of the amendment of the Noble Lord
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for which he should
vote, and reserve the consideration of the proposition ot
the Hon. Member for Bolton for a future occasion. He
must, however, say, that he never would consent to any
class of persons being restricted in disposing of their
labour as they thought fit.
Mr. HUME approved of neither proposition, but as the
least of two evils he should feel himself constrained to vote
for the amendment of the Noble Lord. He agreed that
the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bolton was the
wisest they could adopt, for he was quite satisfied if Sir J.
Hobbouse's Act was enforced all the evils complained of
would be remedied.

Mr. DUNLOP supported the amendment of the Noble
Lord.
Mr. COBBETT observed that heretofore it bad been
said that the Bank and the landed proprietors were the
great supporters of the country, but now it was found out
that the country was supported by three or four hundred
little factory girls of Lancashire.
Mr. J. STANLEY said that this discovery existed only
in the breast ,f the Hon. Member for Oldham. It wla
his (Mr. Stanley's) opinion, that if the Bill of the Noblo
Lord were adopted the whole manufacture of the country
would be involved in ruin.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY expressed his intention to op-
pose the amendment.
Lord ALTHORP begged to recall the attention of thc
House to the exact question which they would have to de-
cide. It was proposed by the Noble Lord opposite to fill
up the blank with IS years, but to that proposition be
objected. If the House concurred with him in rejecting
the motion of the Noble Lord, they would still have to
determine how this blank was to be filled up.—(Hear,
hear.) He undoubtedly had very great objections to this
measure, but the question was merely the protection of
children, and whether that protection should be extended
to persons of 18 years of age.—( Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. SLANEY, the Committee
divided. The numbers were—.
For the original motion 93
For Lord Althorp's amendment 2313
Majority for Ministers 145
On the re-admission of strangers into the gallery, we
found

Lord ASHLEY addressing the House. The Noble
Lord was understood to say, that he had taken up the Bill
conscientiously and upon principle, and that his object
having been defeated, after a fair discussion, he must ad-
:nit, by the decision to which the House had just come, he
could take no further part in the progress of the measure.
He would not render himself responsible for the amendment
if the Noble Lord, believing, as he firmly did, that its
adoption would only lead to the introduction of a worse
state of things than at present existed. Under such cir-
cumstances, he felt that he must surrender the Bill into
the hands of the Noble Lord, and retire from it altogether.
But he could assure the House that he had taken it up,
not with the view of acquiring popularity, but solely for
the benefit of the working classes ; and now, that he telt
himself compelled to abandon it, he must conclude by say-
ing into whosesoever hands the Bill should pass, he wished
most fervently that God would prosper his exertions.
Lord ALTHO.IP was quite sure no one in that House
had for an instant supposed the Noble Lord had been
actuated by any other than honourable motives in bring-
ing this measure forward, and in the determination to
which he had now come of abandoning it and leaving it
to the disposal of Government. Indeed, the Noble Lord
had very distinctly notified the course he meant to pursue;
but as the Noble Lord bail thrown up the conduct of the
Bill, the course he (Lord Althorp) wished the House to
pursue was to allow the Chairman to report progress and
ask leave to sit again, in order to afford him (Lord Al-
thorp) an opportunity of considering how he should act
and the steps it would be advisable for him to take. He
certainly must say that the evidence which had been ad-
duced before the Committee clearly showed that the fac-
tory children required protection, and his object would be
in any amendments he might propose to accomplish that
object.—( Hear, hear.)
The House resumed, and the CHAIRMAN reported
progress, and azir..ll leave to sit again, but no day fer the
purpose was named.

USA*
• -