The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-01 00:00:00

THE SUGAR DUTIES.

On the motion for going into Committee of Ways and
Means.
Mr. SPOONER, said that he wished to state briefly
to the House his reasons for giving his vote in support
of the proposition of Government. He thought it the
duty of a christian nation to lay aside every consideration
of profit and commercial benefit or advantage, if they
were to be purchased by anything tending to increase
the slave trade. He (lid not think that the proposition
of her Majesty's Government would give the least
stimulus to the slave trade ; if he thought it would
he said he would not give his sapport to the proposition.
After the very able speech of the Noble Lord the
Member for Liverpool (Lord Sandon), he would net
have risen to enter on the subject if the
Noble Lord the Member for Stamford had not
risen after and made an attempt to invalidate his argu-
mews. That Noble Lord had characterised the speech
of the Member for Liverpool as one that could not be
comprehended.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Spooner
was of opinion that that speech was the most
concise and the most complete answer to all the argu-
ments on the opposite side. He said the demand for sugar
had grown till it was more than the supply. If, however,
they excluded slave-grown sugar from the market that
only opened another market for it elsewhere im-
treiiately ; a greater consumption of free-labour
sugar at home was the consequence, and that
created a vacuum on the Continent, which was again
supplied with slave-grown sugar. He begged they
would observe what the effect of this had been on
trade and the manufactures of this country. The trade
between this country and the Brazils was an important
trade ; but since the treaty had ceased the Bra-
zilian Government had raise.l their duties. Toe
merchants there had sent over their agents tc
the Continent, and there they were buying
German goods in the German markets with Eiglisis
capital, an,l carrying into their markets stave-labour sugar.
It was a fact which could not be disputed, that their
eff,rts to do away with s!avery had failed,
and it was therefore c Impletely uselesss to
persevere in a system which pressed so
hahjavilsly
upon the comforts of the people. Their pdan • -
givenll
that their interests were wholly' ucc;leete..
he
the greatest offence to th©
was an advocate for protection, which
believed was the foundation of the prosperity of the
Brazilians,_ who felt
so as a whole, as otherwise it would be the
country ; but if it were to be maintained, it should be
source of endless injustice toY
different partPs.
The question had already been so fully debated in the
lieu e, that he did not hope to give any new argument
for its considerat-on, but he felt that it would not be
consistent with his
duty to give a silent vote upon so
important a question.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said that amongst the many de-
feats which, in the course of his
experience in that
House, he had had to sustain, there was none which he
felt more deeply than that which be. sustained by the
decision of the House on Tuesday last ; and if by any

opposition of his he could hope to remove that decision,
he trusted that he should not ba found wanting in what
he considered to be his duty ; but that decision of the
House having been pronounce d by a majority so large as
to render any further attempt on his part, not m, rely
hopeless, but probably irritative, and leading to a great
hindrance to the discharge of public business, he did
not desire to revive the dicussien of Monday and Tues-
duy last, and rose rather for the purpose of stating that,
than of answering what lie thought might be easily
answered— the opposition of his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Birmingham—the latest convert to the doctrine
of free-trade, and latest abandoner of the principles of
protection. He would only state, that deeply as he re-
gretted the injury to be sustained by their fellow-
countrymen in the East as well as the West Indies, by
the change which had been decided upon in the course
of the last few days—deeply as he regretted the ma•
jority by which that change had been produced, by such
a combination of individuals and of parties as perhaps
the wildest imagination of any man in that House,
he was quite sure could neverexpect upor.such a subject—
still more deeply f eling the change in our commercial
policy, the greatest change which had been made in the
course of three centuries—he meant this change in the
slave trade—yet at the same time he saw the contest
was hopeless, and he would not weary the House with
arguments in reply, which had been used by far better
and abler men than himself. He would therefore take
upon himself the responsibility, on a subject of so much
importance to the interests of the West Indian colonies,
and the still higher interests of humanity and the world,
of withdrawing all further opposition.
Several. Bills were brought down from the Lords, after
which,
The House went into Committee.

Mr. D. BARCLAY opposed the resolution, and
called upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer to distin-
guish between sugar the produce of free labour in the
colonies, and sugar the produce of the unfortunate ne-
groes in the islands of Cuba and in the Brazils. He
said this measure would destroy the little attachment
between the colonies and the mother country ; for what
attachment, he asked, would Jamaica have to this coun-
try when the duties were equalised, and Cuba and the
Brazils had the same advantages ? He said they were
committing an act tantamount to dissolving the connexion
between the colonies and this country. The only
chance for the colonies would be to give
their produce every opportunity of a market.
It the inhabitants of Jamaica were their fellow subjects
they Here entitled to an equal treatment with the people
of the country, and he did hope that there would be no
obstruction thrown into the way of the consumption of
free labour sugar. The simple alteration which he pro-
propsed was, that instead of the duty varying for the
first three years, that the foreign sugar should remain
stedfast for that time at 215., and after that in the fourth
year it should be reduced to 33. 6d. That alteration
was so simple in its character that it could hardly be
objected to, and he sincerely hoped that the House
would not object to it.
_ _

The CHAIRMAN said that the resolution of the
Hon. Member could not be put at present.
Mr. MOFFATT then moved the repeal of the
differential duties on white clayed sugar and Muscovado,.
or other sugar not being equal to white clayed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed
the motion, because it would be a great annoyance to
the public if adopted. If the House was deal-
ing with colonial sugar only the Honourable
Member would have a better ground for proposing
his motion, but as they were now dealing with foreign as
well, he believed that the resolution proposed would in-
flict great injury on those engaged in the sugar trade.
He then read extracts from some documents, for the
purpose of showing that the charges of oppression on the
part of the custom• house officers, in the collection of the
duties on sugar, were not well grounded. Believing
that the reasons which existed at. the time when those
duties were first proposed existed now in even greater
strength, he must say that he should oppose his Hon.
Friend's motion ; at the same time he might state that
he did not consider the present as a final measure.
Mr. MOFFATT said, that after the explanations of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, he would not persist in his
(notion at present.—(hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. P. M. STEWART.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the present measure was a final one, but he did re-
serve to himself the power of making a-distinction on the
white clayed sugar.
& The item of 18s. Bd. on white clayed sugar was then
agreed to.
Mr. JAMES moved that the item of brown sugar, be-
ing Muscovado, or clayed, or any other sugar not being
~qual in quality, white clayed, not being refined, be ad.;
nitted fur three years at a duty not exceeding 10s. the cwt.
tie was against any duty being placed upon colonial
sugar. He was not actuated in making this motion by
Any hostility to the Government, but he considered that
the House would confer a great boon upon the people if
they agreed to his motion. He would not press it, how-
ever, if it was not the wish of the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the reduction would interfere too much with the revenue.
Mr. BERKELEY moved that the differential duty
should exist for three years at a fixed sum of 21's. per
cwt., and in the fourth year there should be a further
reduction to a fixed duty of 145., as proposed by her
Majes'y's Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he could not agree to the proposition, which involved
most evil consequences: He considered that the plan us
proposed by her Majesty's Goverment had met very
general approbation, and he, therefore, considered
he would not be justified in assenting to
the proposition of the Honourable Gentleman.
He believed that under all the circumstances the gradual
reduction of duty on the sug it was the mode best calcu-
lated to benefit the consumers and the trade of the country.
With regard to the introduction of molasses, into diitille-
ries, he had promised to give the subject his fullest and
fairest consideration., He thought that there would be
some difficulty in introducing it this session, but at some
future period it would probably occupy the attention of
the Rouse.

Mr. I). BARCLAY made some observations in reply
which did not reach the gallery. The purport was (as
we understood) to withdraw the amendment.
Mr. BARFLY said, that in consequence of the
variety of rates of duty in the Bill, which would in many
mercantile houses cause a considerable loss of time,
the West India planters would be certainly deprived of
the benefit of it. The slave owner would be able to
throw in a quantity of sugar at such a rate as to render
th; West India planter unable to compete with them.
He should certainly have felt it his duty to support the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Sunderland if he
had pressed it, but as it was withdrawn, he could only
state that he heartily concurred in its principle.
Sir JOHN RAE REID would put it to the House
whether a great interest like the present one was to be
sacrificed in this way. He objected to the hurried mode
of its discussion, and ho thought that its effect would
be both cruel and unjust upon those engaged in the
sugar trade.
Mr. PATRICK STEWART entirely agreed with
his two Hon. Friends who had preceded him, that tne
next day's packet would take out very gloomy tidings to
the West Indies. He did not wish, however, that the
gloomy forebodings of his Hon. Friends should be
carried across the Atlantic. Much as the sugar pro-
ducers dreaded the competition which was to be opened
upon them, they would not so much care for it if the
Government would only be prompt in the execution of
those measures of which they held out hopes. If they
would let them have a free end uninterrupted supply of
free labour from every British possession on the globe,
he should say to his friends on the other side of the
Atlantic, that hard and severe as the measure was, they
would survive the crisis if they moved the Government
to fulfil its promise to them.

Mr. P. I:IOItTHWICK said that he hardly knew
whether the motion of the Hon. Gentleman had been
withdrawn or not. If it had been pressed to a division he
should have supported it by his vote, He agreed with
the lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, that look-
ing at the colonies, there was no such gloomy prospects
as had been anticipated. He believed that in ten years
from that time the colonies would be again flourishing.
The question was, what was to be done with those who
had property there, and who would be most' materially
injured by the passing of the present measure. lie
thought it was right, both in public and private policy,
to look difficulties in the face, and he trusted that the
Hon. Baronet, the Member for Dover (Sir John Rae
Reid) would prevail on the wealthy merchants of Lon-
don to look at the question in this light. He hoped
that these merchants would not have to send out, by
to-morrow's packet, the dolorous news that it was their
determination to put an end to protection as regarded
the colonies.

Mr. GOULBURN, who was at first inaudible in the
gallery, said he was not prepared to have voted for his
Hon. Friend's motion if he had pressed it to a division.
He thought that the Government ought to he pressed to
give those measures of compensation to which the
West Indies had a claim ; that if the Government
re luced the duties to perfect equality, they should assist
them by a sufficient supply of labour, and also give some
compensation fur the tardiness of that assistance. It
was in the hope that Government would do something
of this hind that he would support the measure of the
Government.

Dr. BOWRING confessed that the colonial claims
deserved calm and reasonable consideration. The pro-
prietors had admitted to those on his side the House the
principles of free trade, and he thought that taking up
that position they were likely to establish fair claims.
There were no doubt facilities that might be given and
opportunities that might be opened up, preserving alwsys
the integrity of the principles of free trade. The ques-
tion had been unnecessarily complicated by minute dis-
tinctions. He himself was anxious that the ruin question
had been settled ; but there was this advantase that the
colonies had by this measure,that the markets of the
world were opened to them, to buy in the cheapest mar-
ket, and sell in the dearest.
Mr. BERNAL said he did not understand what fell
from the Right lion. the Chancellor of the Exchequer
as to the change he proposed on colonial spirits.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. said,
what he had said in reference to the %Vest India proprie-
tors was, that all protection had been removed from
them, and all protection had been removed again ~t
them. lie only was anxious to know what they wished,
and what obstacles they felt. He said the principle
fiuspeon,
which the Government had acted, was, that the al
burdens on British and colonial spirits should be .the
same when they came is for consumption. Possibly the
duty continued might be too much, but he did
to enter on that question just now. There wa:lontoidneitati;
on the spirits of tne West Indies, except fir fi,Jal pur-
poses ; and that British spirits and Jamaica rum might
Come in on precisely the same terms,, '
~ he had reduet.d
hel had gone too
tutation of dis-
tillers the duty to Is. instead or Is. 61.
A
had waited on him, whothoughtfar. He said he would h,ar the West lndians as to
whether the Is. was too much, and the distillers as to
whether it was not enough, and he would adjudicate
bet'veen them with a view to 'doing justice. 'lie said the

duty imposed was not for protection to any interests in
this country, but only for the purposes of revenue.
Mr. BERNAL wished to know how the Right Hon.
G cndeman could justify that arrangement, by which in
Scotland rum at 9s. 4d. sias let in to meet a spirit at
3s. 4d. Was not that protection ? Perhaps the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer did not know that there was a
spirit manufactured in Scotland, called the " Silent
Spirit."—(Laughter.) It was alcohol having the appear-
az.ce and colour of ruin, an•l was vended there duty free
to the prejudice of rum. He asked why rum should not
enter into Scotland on the same footing as it did with
English spirits in England ; why there was not a uniform
rate for Scotland also ?

Mr. HUME was pleased that this matter had been so
amicably settled, but he though the Government might
have male the concession asked by the West India inte •
rest, without injuring the great measure now before the
Committee.—(Hear, hear.) He must join with other
Hon. Gentlemen who had already addressed the Com-
mittee, in hoping that Government would act liberally with
the Colonies. No one could deny the assertion that they
had not been treated fairly ; and he, for one, thought,
while they were adopting five trade at home, they ought
to apply it to the colonies without any reservations
whatever. Place the colonies in a situation of freedom
in that respect, and he was satisfied that, so far from
suffering from the change about to be made, they would
be able to compete with any foreign producers. Now,
this freedom could not be given unless a change took
place in the system pursued at the Colonial-office.
Hitherto that department had acted upon nothing but a
receding policy, issuing orders one day, and counter-
manding them another, and acting all the year round
upon a vice versa system, if he might be allowed to use
the term.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) An evil genius
appeared to have invaded all the ranks of the Colonial-
office, but he hoped the Noble Lord would give them an
assurance that, in this respect a change should be made,
and the colonies permitted to have the management of
their own fiscal affairs themselves.—(Hear. hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had heard with great plea-
sure the statement of his Right Hon. Friend opposite.
But with regard to the observations of his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Bernal) he thought it was better both for the con-
sumer and the producer that the present distinction
between rum S•cotch spirits should continue for a short
while longer. These changes could not be suddenly
made with advantage to either party. It required time
to effect them, and if that time were allowed to Govern-
ment they would do their utmost to carry out the details
of this change in a manner that should meet the views and
wishes of most parties.—(Hear, hear.) They did not
propose any variation of duties for the sake of protection,
but with a view of ultimately leading to a final and
satisfactory adjustment of the sugar duty question.
With regard to the reduction proposed to be made in
the excise duty of 6d., he relied fully upon the justice
and integrity of his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, who he had no doubt would settle the
question impartially, and in a manner calculated to pro-
tect the interest of all parties. It must be remembered,
however, that the West Indies had been exposed to great
changes in their social as well as commercial condition.
They were now thrown open to the changes of free
trade, if indeed there were any ; and he felt it to be the
duty of Government to attend to all these little questions
and details which it was supposed would do se
much benefit for the colonies.—(Cheers) He was verb
sorry to hear two Honourable Gentlemen opposite speak
with so much despondency of the prospect of the West
Indies. He owned, although, he had carefully con-
sidered all that was said on former occasions upon this
part of the subject, he did not believe the prospects of
the West Indies were so distressing and deplorable as
some Hon. Gentlemen would paint them.—(Hear, hear.)
He did really believe that, with the advantages of some
trifling charge, and privileges, they would be well able to
compete in the sugar market with sugar the produce of
slave labour.—(Hear, hear.) The difficulties in their
way were only those of the price and supply of labour,
and he could assure the House that Government in-
tended taking these steps which should reduce the diffi-
culties year by year till they had entirely vanished.—
(Hear, hear.) It would be their study and desire to
establish a free intercourse between the African and
West Indian colonies. Men could be brought from Africa
to the West Indies, and there thoroughly taught the
arts of civilisation before they would return to their
native soil. This system, managed with skill, care, and
attention, he need not point out to the House, would
lead to the civilisation of the barbarous population of
our African colonies.—(l-fear, hear.) He had stated
these opinions on former evenings, and in repeating
them then his only object was to add that he hoped
shortly to see them carried into practical effect. But
still he must agree with a Noble Lord, a late Governor
of Jamaica, that it was impossible that any
system of emigration could improve the cultivation
of the West Indies, unless there were some slight sacri-
fice made on the part of the West Indians themselves ;
but upon this point he did not want to raise any contro-
versy. Still, however, it must be borne in mind that the
efforts of that Noble Lord were in a great measure ren-
dered useless by the disputes which arose between the
West Indians and the emigrants, relative to certain
rights and privileges claimed by the one, and refused by
the other ; and while he did not pretend to say who was
in the right or who was in the wrong, the advisers of the
emigrants, or the counsel of the West Indians, he could
not conceal from himself the fact that these disputes had
had the effect of retarding the progress of the colonies
themselves.—(Hear, hear.) Happily, however, these
disputes and di-agreements had generally sub-
sided, and at all events he was glad that
this obstacle would not lie in the future course
of the Government. Upon these grounds, therefore,
he did not look with any kind of despondency
to the result of this measure. It was an experiment
which had already been tried with great success. They
had heard this in the course of debate from the Right
E-lon. Baronet, the Measlier for Tainworth, himself, and
he felt confident the anticipations of those who were the
most desponding would never be realised.—(Hear,
hear.) He could not quite agree with his Hon. Friend,
the Member for Montrose, that there was hardly a
colony which was not a burden to this country; not that
he intended to say that every colony was perfectly satis-
fied with the recent policy of the Colonial-office ; but
upon this point, all he could say was, tit.,t his Noble
Friend, now at the head of the Colonial Department,
would pay every attention to the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord, he was sure, agreed with him in the
public course that ought to be pursued towards the colo •
nies ; and he felt convinced every thing would be done
that could protect or promote the interest of the colo-
nies —(Hear, hear,) Where emigrants were settling in
large numbers, he thought they ought to control the ex•
penditure of their own moneys without being sub-
jected to the dictation of any department of the parent
state ; and, with these plenciples for their guidance, he
had not the least doubt whatever Government would be
able to work out a beneficial reformation in the
colonies.—(Cheers.)

Mr. YIIILIY HOWARD fully appreciated the liberal
and patriotic spirit which had dictated the remarks of
the lion. Member for Sunderland, and the Hon. Mem-
ber for Rochester ; and after what had fallen from the
Noble Lord, who had just resumed his seat, he thought
they might safely look forward to a speedy and perma
nent improvement being effected in the colonies.—
(Hear, hear.) There was no better way of attaining
that improvement, in his opinion, than extending the
contract under which emigrants were brought from
Africa to labour in the West Indies. The time now,
he thought, was too short to admit of the negroes ob-
taining a sufficient knowledge of the art of civilisation,
to render his example of any value when he returned to
his native home.—(Hear, hear.) Though these la-
bourers might at first be considered a burden, they
would in a short tiiae repay the trouble and expense
bestowed noon them. He thought that this step would
be a very great boon to the colonists, and it was one
which the Government might very fairly concede. I
would make the labourers in the West Indies more in-
dustrious.
The remainder of the resolutions were then agrees to
the House resumed, the chairman reported progress,
and the report was ordered to be brought up on Monday
next.