The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-27 00:00:00

LONDON AND TORN.

The evil we anticipated has at length occurred—the
resolution of their Lordships to exclude the press, and
cause the gentlemen connected therewith to rely on the state-
ments of interested individuals for their facts,, has led to its
natural result; and, for aught we know, has caused the
greatest inconvenience to many individuals.
Our readers may remember that we stated in our
paper of Tuesday last, that in this case the
question of the new subscription deed or contract had
been decided in favour of the present promoters of the Bill,
and that as all opposition had been withdrawn, the Bill had
virtually passed, anC. the final decision of their Lordships
was only withheld until a properly signed deed was prepared,
with the real names of the promoters of the line attached
thereto. This information is incorrect, for on the calling of
the case,
Mr. CROWDER made an application, on the part of the
Eastern Counties Railway Company, to be heard in opposi-
tion to the Bill, on the point of the contract deed.
He said that his objection to the deed was not
that which had been urged last year before
the Committee, and he argued that as the money
which had been placed in the hands of the Accountant-
General of the Court of Chancery had been so deposited under
the deed of last year, and as the present promoters came
under a new deed, and were not the same as those who last
year came before the Committee, they had no claim upon that
fund.

The question, however, underwent considerable discussion.
The Committee adjourned the case till Monday ; in the
meantime, a case is to be laid before the Attorney and Soli-
citor-General for the guidance of the Committee in arriving
at their final decision.
The Committee adjourned at five o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP IX.
WEST or SCOTLAND rcrivcTxow.

The evidence on behalf of this Bill was proceeded with
this morning.
Counsel for the Bill, Mr. Sergeant Andrews, Sir Thomas
Phillips, and Mr. M‘Neil. The scheme is petitioned against
by the corporation of Glasgow, the Clyde River Trust, the
trustees of the Glasgow Bridge, the Glasgow and Greenock
Railway, the Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct Rail-
way, Sir John Maxwell, A. Campbell, Esq., certain inha-
bitants of Blythswood Hill, and the members of an United
Secession congregation. The petitioners were represented
by Mr. Austin, Mr. Sergeant Bellasis, Mr. Sergeant Wrang-
ham, and Mr. (lope.
The scheme is one to connect the terminus of the Glasgow
and Edinburgh Railway, on the north side of the Clyde at
Glasgow, with the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr
Railway, on the south side, and, through that junction all
the lines in the West of Scotland, with that running east and
south. It is a mile long, and is proposed to cross the Clyde
by a viaduct at Glasgow-bridge to whisk the principal op-
position is dreaded. Powers were also sought to make a
station at Blythswcod Holm.
On the assembling of the Committee, some conversation
took place as to the propriety of considering the Caledonian
Termini and Branches. scheme along with the West of
Scotland Junction, as it competed with the latter in some

respects.
The room was cleared for a decision on the point. On our
re-admission,
The CITAIRMAN said the Committee had decided that the
Caledonian promoters should be considered in connexion
with the West of Scotland Junction, and the promoters
should cross-examine the witnesses; only their own case was
not to come on till the legal time, according to the standing
orders.
The evidence on behalf of the West of Scotland Junction
was then proceeded with.
Mr. Miller, civil engineer, was called and examined by
Mr. Sergeant ANDREWS, on the part of the promoters. He
commenced with describing the lines north and south of
Glasgow, which the proposed junction would bring into con-
nexion. The lines of railway on the north of Glasgow,
made or making, were 130 miles, and on the south side 120
miles in extent. The proposed line was under a mile long,
and crossed the Clyde by a viaduct just under Glasgow-
bridge. The line was to be carried over several
streets, at an elevation of about 10 feet, so as
not to interfere with the street traffic. The bridge
was to abut against the present bridge, the piers
being exactly opposite. About thirty feet would be taken
from the harbour by the proposed bridge. The berthage of
the whole harbour was about 5,000 or 6,000 feet, and it was

to be extended by the proposed docks at Stobcross. The
proposed station at Blythswood Holm was required, by the
want or accommodation at the Queen-street station. The
witness then described' the route of the line, and the gra-
dientS, which,he represented as very favourable, the severest
being on one of the diverging branches, 1 in 64. He con-
sidered it was the only practicable scheme, to allow a con-
tinuous stream of traffic north and south without interference.
Two other'scheraes proposed to cross the Clyde, but it was
only to get better station accommodation, and they could
not connect the lines north and south without a great de-
struction of property. The estimates of the works were
200,0001. ; 75,0001. for land ; and 124,900/. for works and
contingencies, which were calculated at the rate of ten per
cent.
The witness *as cross.-examined by Mr. Sergeant WEANG-
ITA!i, with the object of showing that the Caledonian Com-
panY purposed a connexion with the lines on the south side
of the river, of a superior character. The witness admitted
that the proposed,connexion, if carried out to the mineral lines
east of Glasgow, would be superior in respect to mineral traffic,
but not otherwise for all general purposes; the West of Scot-
land was superior, and did not interfere so much with house
property and streets.
Cross-examined by Mr. HOPE, on the part of the Clyde
River Trust, the Bridge Trust, and the Corporation of Glas-
gow. The inclination of Rothwell-street, in order to accom-
modate the line, was altered from one in eighteen to one in
twenty. The tunnel, before the line reached the proposed
new station, issued near to Waterloo-street, which was crossed
by an arch twelve feet high; the road would have to
be levelled a 'few feet here, and the gradient in the
line there was one in ninety-two. Five streets were
crossed before reaching the river, by arches of iron,
of 12, 18, 20, 20, and 19 feet respectively. The witness was
further questioned at considerable length, with the object of
showing tinier:Abe- viaduct over the Clyde would affect the
harbour word/A/dation, and be an eyesore to the city, on
account of ittisityation above the present Glasgow-bridge.
The Colurnit4eB adjourned at a quarter to four o'clock tiil
Dext day at-twelve, when the cross-examination will be re-
satned..

GROUP XII.
GLASGOW, HIMPILAILATOCX, AND
AnDrtoSSA.N.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. W. B. Salmond, merchant, Irvine, corroborated the
evidence of a former witness as to the advantages of the
branch to Irvine.
Mr. Baird, M.P., Gartsherrie, proved the minerals in the
district through which the proposed line passed.
Mr. Qairdner, banker, Kilmarnock, proved that an offer
had Leen made to the. Ardrosan Railway and Harbour Com-
pany by the Glasgow and Ayr Railway to purchase .their
property. Terms were drawn up, of which a copy was re-
tained by witness and one by Mr Leadbitter.
Mr. Neil Robson, civil engineer, then described the line.
The railway gradient was 1 in 75, the number of tunnels 5,
but they only amounted in all to -::!‘i of a mile. The
estimated cost per week was 510,0004 allowing 10 per cent.
for contingencies. The distance gained would be about 10
miles, and no possibly better line could be adopted for the
country. V
Mr.ll.olon's cross-examination was deferred till to-morrow,
and the Committee adjourned.

GROUP XIV.
NOZTIET. =EMI'.

(Continued from our Afternocn Edition of yesterday.)

Bv'Mr. Tausar—The property there belongs to Sir Claude
de Crespigny.
Mr.:TALnet —Sir Claude de Crespigny is an assenting party
to the Bills.
By Mr. SELWYN—The feeling of the inhabitants is very
much against the railway.
Mr. PETERSDORF then addressed the Committee on behalf
of a petition against the proposed line by Sir H. Oxenden.
He said that he had great pleasure in informing the Com-
mittee that he would call no witnesses, but would rely on
the admission of those witnesses who had been already exa:
mined. The line was projected to pass through a. park be-
longing to Sir H. Oxenden, and also within a very short dis-
tance of his mansion ; and the Learned Counsel commented
on the fact that there was an alternative line which could be
adopted, but the Company declined adopting it because of
the additional expense it would cause to them, and there-
!oorr el preferred cutting through Broom Park, the property
is client. Mr. Vignoles had offered to hide the
railwayiwhich would intersect the park by a series of
artificial
completelym mounds, ad
half,s rat effectdestr
destroy
that
altogetherwould
at
so cau tptahrek ptaor ka
gentleman's
r .Btv
srn atlseinon. -
proceeded to address the Committee in
support of it Petition presented against the proposed line, by
the inhabita
and wardens of the
Southwark. parish of St. Saviour's,
:sib objected to Mr. Bacon's being heard, on
h :
oGun°du")that the petition had already been submitted to
t eg
the consideration of the Committee. A solicitor had already
belumA
forths saideCo thatmmit he
Committee for this petition.
appeared he uAthought the petition had al-
ready been considered, and therefore could not be again heard.
Mr. BACON submitted that the petitioners alleged such
grievance, that the Committee could hardly pass their peti-
tion without further notice.
The CHAIRMAN said that the Learned Counsel had better
recapitulate successively the heads of the grounds on which
the petitioners claimed to be heard, and the Committee would
then decide whether he could be heard.
Mr, FgeantWILANGIIAM said that if Mr. Bacon was heard

it would be against all •preeedenti, • -
The CHAMMAN, after a short consultation, said that the
case submitted by Mr. Bacon was f4O very similar to the one
presented the ether day,"tbat the Committee could not hear it.
The Committee then adjourned until twelve o'clock to-
morrow.

GROUP XVI.
EPSOM_ BRANCH.

The Committee assembled to-day ,at twelve o'clock, Sir
Charles Douglas, Bart., in the chair, when
Mr. Farmer, a magistrate, was called on behalf of the South
Western Company, confirmed the testimony previously given
as to the desire Of the inhabitants of Epsom to have the line
proposed by this Company, as also of thosereaiding in the dis-
trict to the soath. In addition, the witness expressed his belief
that those residing at and about Dorking and Leatherhead,
would prefer this line to get to London either to the route by
Kingston or Croydon.
To Mr. MOORE, Mr. Farmer expressed his belief that the
petition which had been presented to the House of Commons
in favour ofthe Croydon and, Epsom line, and that he-had
withdrawn his opposition to that line in consequence of an
arrangement with the Company. He also stated that,
with respect to the Guildford coach, the circumstances were,
that although taken off the road to London, it was now driven
from 800102.113, where the proprietor lived, to the Kingston
station, then back to Epsom, and then again to Kingston, to
accommodate the public in that neighbourhood. He did not,
however, believe that the traffic would support both lines.
On re-examination by Mr. him, Q.C., Mr. Farmer stated
that he had withdrawn his opposition to the Atmospheric
Railway, because his counsel had advised him, under the im-
pression that the Committee were so decided in favour of
that line, that his property would suffer if he did not yield.
He thought that the terminus at NV aterloo-bridge was the
one best for all the resident gentry, whether going to the
east or west, although, of courts, those who had business
to do in the City would prefer the London.bridge terminus.
Mr. F. Taylor, brother of Mr. William Taylor, of Wor-
cester Park, through which property the Epsom Branch was
intended to pass said,on this estate there were several gunpow-
der mills, in the working of which five hundred tons of coal
were used in a year. The formation of this railway
would enable them to procure coals at a cheaper rate, and
this was of great importance, as enabling them to keep the
market in the competition with other mills which enjoyed the
advantage of railways near to them. He confirmed the tes-
timony respecting the probable convenience of the branch,
and the feelings of the upper classes residing in the neigh-
bourhood.
To Mr. MOORE the witness replied that the powder-mills
were half a mile from Malden.
To kr. Bum= Mr. Taylor stated that they now paid
20s. to 21s. per ton, and he conceived that they would save
4s. 6d. a ton by bringing them on the railway.
Mr. Page, a farmer at Merton, churchwarden and trustee
of the charity land, found chalk very beneficial in mixing
with the soil. He got his chalk from the pits at Cheam, a
distance of six or seven miles. The Wimbledon station
would be near his land. At present one journey occupied
the whole of the day, during which not more than two
tons a day, as they could only send a cart, in
consequence of the badness of the road and the
steepness of the ascent from the chalk pits. If this sort of
manure could be procured with facility and cheapness, he be-
lieved it would be used in a tenfold greater degree, as it was
useful both for light and for heavy land, cooling the former
in hot weather, and disintegrating the latter from its tenacity
in wet seasons.
To Mr. Mooaa, the witness replied, that the railway would
not prevent the necessity of drawing it part of the way, but
he believed that the expense of putting it on the railway
would be trifling, and he expected that there was a deposit
of chalk at Wimbleton. The distance of Guildford was too
great, being twenty-four miles off. There was. chalk at
Ewell, through which the railway was intended to pass, and
from whence it could be brought, and might be delivered at
2s. 6d. a ton, while by the wear, tear, and expense of a team
of three horses, with a man and a boy, the cost was 16s. for
two tons.
Mr. S. Bothwell, lessee of the celebrated lime-pits at
Dorking, said he generally sent about 5,000 or 6,000
tons, but last year his business fell off to 3,500 tons, in con-
sequence of the facilities possessed by the Kent lime-pits
through the neighbourhood of the railways. He got his
coals by barge to Kingston, and then carted them to Dork-
ing, a distance of thirteen miles, an impediment which
greatly limited the consumption of coals. This lime was
used in the erection of the new Houses of Parliament, and it
was a common covenant in building contracts to secure the
use of Dorking lime. The building going on at the west-end
of London was so extensive that he believed that hereafter
fully two-thirds of the lime would be sent to the Nine Elms
terminus for the buildings now going on at Battersea,Pimlico,
and even beyond both those places on both sides of the
river. If coals were brought to Epsom, of which from five
thousand to six thousand tons were purchased by him every
year, upon this quantity he expected to save ss. 6d. a ton.
If he obtained these facilities he expected to consume 2,000
to 3,000 tons more to make at least 10,000 tons of lime. At
present he believed that coal was scarce at Dorking, which
for that article was the dearest place in England. For these
reasons he preferred the branch of the South-Western Com-
pany. He had been present before the Committee in 1844,
when many promises had been made by the Atmospheric
Company ; but they had hitherto proved to be only'Promises.
To the CHAIRMAN and Lord POLLINGTON, Mr. Bothwell
replied that coals at Dorking were about 355. a ton. At
present he bought his coals a ship load at a time and laid
them in store at his wharfs at Kingston. It was now cus-
tomary to get coals down to Reigate by the Brighton Rail-
way, where it was seven miles to Dorking, but the road was
a bad one, while that from Epsom was a good one, although
a little longer.
Mr. Nelson the architect of Charles-street, St. James's-
square, extensively engaged in the erection of houses in
London, stated that, Wimbledon Park, which contained 700
acres, bad been taken for building mansions and villas of the
first class. The plans have been made, and part of the build-
ings raised close to the WimNeden station. In addition to
this, in consequence ofthe extensinteof theSouth-Westernßail-
way to Richmond, the whole of that district had been opened
for building purposes, and he calculated that 1,000 houses a
year would be built in that suburb of the metropolis.
For buildings, whether large or small, the use of good lime
was requisite. Dorking lime was the best, but it was super-
seded at present, to a very great extent, by the Northfleet
lime, which was far inferior, but it was cheaper; and it was
a common practice with builders to make the river lime of a
darker colour, in order to imitate Dorking lime; and even
where the contract specified that Dorking lime should be
used, the lime from Northfleet was often substituted. It was
in every way advisable to use the best lime, as it rendered
buildings stronger and more substantial.
To Mr. Mooita, the witness replied that the grey Medway
lime, which was ls. to ls. 6d. per yard cheaper. The works
for that line were established in consequence of the dearness
of the Dorking lime, to which it was far inferior, although
it had superseded it.
To the CHAIRMAN, the witness replied, that from his know-
ledge of the geology of the district, he should say that there
was no doubt whatever of opening works to any extent in the
Dorking hills. Upwards of 50,000 tons of lime were annu-
ally used in London, and as much more in the provinces, and
Dorking lime could he supplied for it almost interminably.
Mr. Pryor, chairman of the Coal and Corn Committee of
the City of London, stated that he had an establishment at
Newcastle as well as in London, from which he sent 80,000
to 100,000 tons of coal each year. The South-Western
Company already afforded great facilities at their wharfs at
Nine Elms, where the frontage was 150 feet long, and it
was about being largely increased. He, himself, deposited
12,00 tons in a year at those wharfs, and by the alteration
they would be able to take the smaller classes of sea-going col-
liers up to the wharfs themselves, by which the expense of
lighterage, and the disadvantage of the breakage of coals
would be saved. They had already taken a vessel of ninety
tons, and he believed that vessels of one hundred tons could
be taken there. By the official papers he found that be-
tween last July and February there had been 354 vessels of
100 tons, and 541 between that rate and 150 tons, and
575 between that rate and 200 tons which discharged
their cargoes in London, and each of their vessels made, on
an average, five voyages a year. In saving the lighterage,
there was also another advantage gained, for a machine had
been invented which was capable of raising 300 tons of coals
in a day, and depositing them in the railway waggons, saving
the breakage 3d. a ton. The coalwhipper's charge was now
6d. a ton for discharging cargoes. The advantages, together
are savings of 3d. for discharging, Bd. in lighterage, and 7d.
for taking out of the lighters, and Is. 6d. for breakage,
making altogether a saving of 3s. a ton in favour of the new
system, .at least 2s. Bd., so that the coal after it is placed in
the railway waggons is absolutely cheaper than it is in the
Fool. The wharf at Nine Elms is a public wharf, where no
wharfage is ever charged. Immense quantities of sea-borne
coal are daily transmitted to the interior of the
country, and when the South-Western Railway was
opened, at the request of Sir John Easthope, Mr. Prior had
consented to open the trade, and sent coal down the main
line of the South-Western Company, and the consequence
was that from 355., the price of coals had fallen in that dis-
trict to 28s. a ton.- •If this line were opened he could under-
take to deliver coal fit for lime burning and gunpowder mak-
ing at 155. 101. a ton at Epsom. At present the best hohse-
keeping coal was 14s. to 16e. a ton, so that it could be deli-
vered on an average at 17s. 10d. a ton at that place.
Mr. Bothwell being recalled, said that- it cost ss. a ton
to cart coals from Epsom to Dorking, including one gate, so
that they could get good coals in that neighbourhuod at a
little more than 238. a ton. .
Mr. Prior being further examined, said that he had heard
of the Croydon plan for the last, four years. He had sent
coals down by the Croydon line from that place, and the ex-
penses were-Bd. lighterage to Coal Blow, near New Cross;
sd. canal dues ; towing 13/01. ; wharfage 6d. ; and rail
charge 25.-making a total cost of 4s. 4:Yid. a ton to Croy-
don, which was eight miles further, giving a further expense
ofqd. per ton, which with the Gd. a ton for discharging the
cargo, would cost 63. 23/4 d. to Epsom by the Croydon Rail-
way, giving a contrast of Is. 9d., the cost by the Sonth-
Vire3tern line, against 6s. 2%d., and showing a gain in favour of
the South-Western line of 4s. sd. ; or, including the coals,
the difference appears by this line 17s. 10d. a ton for house-
hold coal against 225. 2d. by the other line. Taking all
things as they were, he should prefer the South-
Westeru line.for the facilities afibrded to the trade, even if
the cost of the two hues were exactly equal.
To Mr. MOORE-It appears that the charge for carriage to
Croydon was only 11d. a ton per mile. The 12,000 tons of
coal which witness delivered at Nino Elms was for making
coke for the Company. The small vessels would, of course,
be fitted for going under the bridges, and he did not believe
that there was practically any difference in the freightage of
large vessels and small ones. He knew that several indivi-
duals were preparing to lower their masts and to go into the
trade. Of course the machineof which he had spoken would
be as useful in the Pool as at Nine Elms.
In re-examination by Mr. HILDYARD, Q.C., Mr. Prior
replied, that in consequence of having a less deep hold to
fall into, and from there being *Jos weight to shake together
on the voyage, there was less breakage in small vessels than
in large ones.

To the CHAIR r& machine was tried at South
ampton.. - - - _

To Mr. BLEWITT and Lord POLLINGTOX, Mr. Elliott,
Q.C., stated that the charge of the South-Western Company
for carrying coals was 2id. for 15 miles, 2d. for 25 miles, and
lid. a ton for every greater distance. By the Act the toll
only, and not.the rate of carriage, was regulated.
Mr. G. Stone, a coal merchant at Ewell, who supplies the
chief families in Ewell, Epsom, and the neighbourhood, said
that he obtained his coals by barge to Kingston, and thence
by his own waggons. His general sale was 2,000 tons a-year,
and of course a reduction in the price would increase the
consumption. His impression was that about 20,000 tons a-
year were consumed in the district.
Mr. Waghorn, the owner of extensive clay potteries at
Ewell, who exported largely, sends 2,000 to 3,000 tons of
goods to Nine Elms in a year. Large gas-works are situated
at that place, where a great quantity of his clay earth is used.
He consumes from 2,000 to 3,000 tons of coals annually, all
of which he brought from Vauxhall. He supplied other gas
establishments, but the London gas-works took one•half of
his clay earth, and the Waterloo-bridge terminus would be a
convenience for supplying the City.
Mr. Charles Hall, who sends 200 sacks of flour per week
to London, would, if this line were made, save 70 to 80
per cent. of his carriage cost.
Mr. Burn, an extensive ironmonger at Epsom, stated that
heAreftceerivaend
elhOosertvoantsioonf
fromhardwarethe
citAmm
fromLoAnNdo, n.
HILDYARD stated his object was to show that, as the
London and Birmingham Company had bought the railway
and the banks, of the Thames, that the formation of-thfs
branch would save the expense and delay of such goods
passing through London, a point which the testimony went
t

Arr. Lumley, of the Spread Eagle at Epaom, and chief
posting-motor Of Oa WWII; te*tifted that three gum ass much