The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRIJARN 20. 1840.

the political honour and consisteney, which were not to be
found in ails- of the writings of political economists. If he
had delayed from taking a part in the debate, he was not pre•
vented by any doubts on the expediency of their repeal. It
, was his fortune to go down into Warerickehire some days ago,
and he met a gentleman who was a large grazier in that part
of the c ,untry. Ile met him galloping along the road at a
fearful pace. lie (Lord Duncan) said to him, " My good
friend, where are you going?" " Oh," said he, " you and
Sir Robert Peel have been a-ruining of us all.
I read the speech of Mr. Miles—he is the great
oracle of us agriculturists.---( Laughter.) He never
exiiggerates, and he has been a-tell.ng of us that in America
there are no less than 5,500,000 men employed in building an
ark, is which they will bring over immense quantities of
cows and cattle, in order to sell them in the Bri-tel market
—( Lauehter )—arsd he says that American pork will be
three-halfpence a pound, while prime pork will be only two-
pence. Get out of the way, and let one rush into the market."
Arid he did go into the market, and he sold his cattle, which to
him was a serious loss. He (Lord Duncan) met the same
agriculturist the other day, and he said to him, " Well, did
you sell all your corn in the market ?" He replied, " No, my
Lord, I did not." " Why, I thought (cuntit ued the Noble
Lord) that you would have followed the advice of your great
oracle, the Member for Sosnersetshire." To this he replied, " Oh,
Fee been gammoned by him before, and I'll never be gernmoneri
again."—( Laughter.) When the lion. Gentleman the
Member for Somerset made his prophecies formerly un this
subject, they had not been realised; and for his (Lord Dun-
can's) pet t he would prefer giving credence to the prophecies
of the Right. Hon. Baronet opposite to those of the Hon. Gentle-
man. The Hon. Member for Sunderland proposed to meet
the public calamity by a public subscription. 11,s arguments
surprised him more than any other lion. Gentleman who had
addressed the House. He ( Lord Duncan) was accustomed to
look upon 'the Hon. Gentleman rather as an enemy of the
agricultural interest—( Hear)—and if he expected any man to
be a free-trader it was the Right Hon. Gentleman.—( Great
laughter.) lie meant the Hon. Gentleman.—(Laughter.)
The Hon. Gentleman had said that about the year 1841 or
1842 there was a great commercial depression, and that during
the last year a new change had come over them. The
Honourable Member for Sunderland contended that that
change had not been owing to the recent alteration in the
tariff, but to an over-production of corn in their own country.
Now, he was not aware that the price of foreign corn would
have any great influence on the English market. He found
upon inquiry that whenever foreign corn could be beught fin
235. a quarter, that it could not lie sold in this country for a
less price than the corn which was daily sold in the country
markets. He might take the instance of Prussia or Poland,
and yet what were the results? Why no difficulty whatever,
notwithstanding the outcry had been experienced by the ma-
nufacturing population. And what was the thing understood
under the name of protection? Why that the consumer should
pay high prices for the necessaries of life ; and high prices
and high rents were accompanied by expensive outlays on the
part of the people. Such a system might do very well in time,
of plenty, but in years of scarcity matters assumed a very dif
ferent aspect; and an evidence had been given in the in-
stance of the potato crop, of which so much had been said.
High prices were no benefit to the labourer. The labourer's
wages depended on the great cause of supply and demand, and
if the demand fur labour was to increase in this country, we
need not be apprehensive that the proposed measure would
materially interfere with them. The rate of wages in England
was lower than the rate in America, but in order to have high
wages there must be high profits. The efflux of capital
caused a competition and a decreased rate of wages, and whets
that was the case the labourer gradually reduced his food man
at length he was brought to the lowest ebb of subsistence;
and when such a state of things occurred some interference
was necessary. During the last century the landed proprie-
tors had le pt up the price of corn by artificial means. In the
years 1070 and 1690 the price was attempted to be kept up by
passing an Act to cause the exportation of corn. The preamble
if the Act stated that it was expedient to export the native
corn, as it kept up the price to the benefit of the landowners.
That was done on the pretence of encouraging agriculture, but
it. was in reality to increase the price of corn. Fortunately
this country, in the year 1790, became an importing country,
and the object of the Act was partially defeated. The pro-
hibitory Act of 1815 had been frequently referred to in the
course of the debate. It was in order to afford protec-
tion to the farmers. He would, with their permission,
quote the words of Mr. Robinson on the subject.
Were they the aristocracy of the land, when the country was
asking to be led on against foreign competition, to hold back?
Such might be the opinion of the landlords of Buckinghamshire
and Sussex, such might be the opinion of lion. Members
opposite; hut he was proud and happy to say that the landlord,
in that part of the country with which he was connected were
ready and willing to assist the people in this laudable object.
He stood there as an independent Member, not to explain any-
thing he might have said in or out of that House, to vin-
dicate a pledge which he had given on the hustings, and one
which he hoped had been given by other Hon. Members—to
support those measures which he believed would ue beneficial
to the country. Believing that this would be the effect of the
measure brought forward by her Majesty's Government—be-
lieving that it would tend to promote and advance the manu-
factures of the country—believing, toe, that that interest would
not be promoted without benefiting agriculture, he far one
should give to the measure his honest and humble support.
Mr. G. HUDSON said he wished in the strongest terms
the rules of the House would allow him to use to contradict the
mnertion of the Noble Lord, that in the observation he made
the other evening he meant to treat lightly with the distress of
Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Having explained thus much, he
wished to state 'hat what he did say was, that he thought it
was the duty of Government immediately to provide for the
distress of Ireland, and that he should be ready to give his
support to any measure that might be brought forward for that
purpose.—( Cheers. )
Lord DUNCAN said he was delighted to hear that the
Hon. Gentleman was ready to support any measure which
might be brought forward by her Majesty's Government bene-
ficial to Ireland. But---(Loud cries of " Order, order," in the
midst of which the Noble Lord resumed his seat).
Mr. THOMPSON said he was ready to confess that this
debate had been sufficiently lengthened by Hon. Members,
but he hoped that, the House would permit him to state the
grounds on which he would vote upon this question.—( Hear,
hear.) lie claimed that indulgence particularly from the
circumstance of his having held a seat in that House for more
than 26 years—(Hear, hear)—during which period he had not
been an indifferent observer of those changes which had been
made from time to time in reference to the cause of the reduc-
tion of duties upon foreign produce.—( Hear, hear.) lie gave
hie support to the extensive measure which had been intro-
duced by the Right lion. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's
Government, in the year 1842, for the reduction of those
duties. To a portion of that measure he certainly did
object, but as a whole he gave it his support.
The reason why he objected to a portion of that
measure was because he believed that, whilst there was a
large sacrifice made, there was no corresponding advantage.
—( Hear.) But since that period another very important
change had taken place—he meant in reference to the banking
system in England. That House had limited the issues of
the Bank of England as well as the circulation of country
notes.—( Hear, hear. ) It was true that hitherto no inconve-
nience had been felt, but it must be borne in mind that the
times had beers peculiarly favourable.—( Hear.) If the mea-
sures now proposed should be adopted, and if their importations
did not exceed their exports, he believed that great injury
would result to the country—in fact, be believed that no
greater injury could befal it. And was there no alarm of
that being the ease ? The flight lien. Baronet had can-
didly and fairly stated that he could not held out any expecta-
tion to the country that the foreign importers would immediately
adopt a more liberal commercial system with respect to this
country.— (Hear, hear.) Those reasons amongst others had
induced him not to vote for any further measures which had
as their object the freedom of trade. —( Hear, hear.) He
voted with the Right Hoe. Baronet in the year 1842 ; but
the House would remember that the years anterior to 1842
were marked by great distress. Such was the state of the
country in 1842. There had been immense sums annually
spent in the construction of railways. 1 he Right lion. Baronet
claimed the support of the House in consequence of the partial
failure of the potato crop, and the bad quality of those that re-
mained. There could he no question that the potato crop in
Ireland had failed to a great extent, but he was equally sure
that every relief would be afforded that it was in the power
of the House to give. Could there be any- stronger proof of this
than that even in the short time that House had sat Bills to the
amount of half a million had been passed to give employment
to the people ? Wheat and flour were now falling in price,
and he, therefore, did not think the measure of
the Government was required. But, suppose there had
been good grounds of alarm, why the Government
ought to have taken the responsibility on themselves. The
Right lion. Baronet had alluded to what had taken place in
the last century about the opening of the ports, but he omitted
to mention the case of 1816. At that time the ports were
opened fur the importation of oats, barley, and other articles
of consumption, and no difficulty was found in the Govern-
ment of that day getting an Act of indemnity, although pro-
tection was much higher than at present ; but the importation
differed between 1826 and the present time—there was
then no A titi- G irn- law League, that Unconstitutional
body which was seeking to do away with the agricultural body,
but which, he believed, did not represent popular feeling.
It was said that now there was a perfect understanding be-
tween the manufacturers and the labouring classes. Ile
would on that point remind the House of the great alteration
in tone and manner evinced by the League since it was first
established. He recollected that three or four years ago the
great argument used by Anti-Corn-law manufacturers was,
that it wasquite impossible to compete with Switzerland, if they
paid the present rate of wages. 'They then made a contrast of
the great differer ce between the wages paid in Lancashire and
Switzerland, and maintained that unless wages were
reduced they would be compelled to remove their capital and ma-
chinery to foreign countries. lie, therefore, contended that it was
a delusion to the people to maintain wages at the present rate,
if a reduction took place in the price of food. He believed
that there never was a period in the history of this country in
which the master manufacturers had made such large profits,
and in which the labourers were better paid. Within the last
few years wages had increased full 30 per cent. Mr. lidd
Pratt had lately published an account of the savings' banks,
from which it appeared, in 1841, there were in the United
Kingdom 841,205 depositors, representing a capital of
24,475,0851. Three years after, in 1844, the number of depo-
sitors had increased to 1,012,000, representing a capital of
31,275,6351., and the average sum for each depositor was
e7l. 18s. This amount proved that the country was in a most
prosperous state. In the agricultural districts the deposits of
each person averaged 28/. ; in the manufacturing districts the
average wee 301. With such a state of things, why should
there be so great a change in the Right Hon. Baronet? It was
said +hat to buy in the cheapest and sell in the dearest markets
was the policy to be pursued ; but he was of opinion that pro-
tection was necessary to the agricultural interests of the coun-
try to enable them to supply any market. If the corn-laws
were to be repealed, why not, repeal the navigation laws?
Why should not the farmers be allowed to bring their corn to
market in those ships which would bring it at the cheapest rate ?
• He therefore, could not bring his mind to vote in favour of
this question. He would like to know what statesman in either
Europe or America, hail ever advocated free trade.—
( Hear, hear.) He would like to know in what country of
Europe or America free trade existed.—( Hear.) He was
ready to admit that he signed the petition of 1815.--(Hear,
hear, and laughter.) But still he would like to have an ans-
wer to his qeention. Certainly Mr. Webster did not do so,
and he was as clever a statesman and as talented a man as he
had ever beard of. lie would now read an extract from a
' speech delivered by Mr. Webster at Boston in 1845 ; but be-
fore he did so, let him remind the House that America had
been guilty on increasing its tariff for several years from 30 to
40, and 50. and even 100 per cent., and no country had made
such rapid strides to prosperity as America.—( Hear, hear. )
[The Honour 'ble Member then proceeded to read the
• extract from the speech, which contained an argu-
ment to show that prosperity reigned in America,
t and that this result was attributable to the protection laws.]
The Hon. Gentleman having concluded reading the document,
observed that he would not trouble the House with any further
remarks on that part of the subject. The Right lion. Baronet
at the head of the Government, on a recent occasion, asked
lion. Gentlemen who sat about him (Mr. Ald. Thompson)
whether they were prepared to retrace their steps with respect
to our commercial policy, or whether they intended to remain
still or to go forwards? As fat as his own opinions, as a single
individual were concerned, he certainly was not disposed either
to go tack or to remain still. He was inclined to go forward,
but at the same time he was not able to go along with the Right
Hon. Baronet in the path he had chosen. .1 he Right Hon.
Baronet had stated that the rental of the land in this
ountry in 1815 1.'13 estimated at thirty-two millions,

v and in 1842 it was reckoned at seventy millions, and the Right
lion, Gentleman hail endeavoured to infer that the value of
rents in 1312 was higher than in 1815 hy a difference amount-
ing to 15 per cent.—(Hear, ) He (Mr. Alderman Thompson)
telieved that since 1815 land which kad lain waste had been
inclosed and improved to the, extent of about 15 per cent. upon
its ancient value, and at a fallen price.—( Hear.) Did the
Ilieht Hon. Ilarotiet mean to contend that thirty millions, the
difference of increase, had been employed between 1815 and 1842
without any interest having been received on so large a
capital, and that it was included in an additional revenue of
five millions? If these items were put together, it would not
appear that the Right Hon. Baronet bad made out his case
with respect to the difference of increase. The argument
which the Right Hon. Baronet wished to prove was, that rents
had advanced between the years 1815 and 1842. He (Mr.
Alderman Thompson) had endeavoured to show that that
argument was fallacious, and whether he had succeeded or nor
would be for the house to consider. The Hon. Membet
for Manchester had asked why the corn trade should
not he free ?—why the British merchant should he restrained
from embarking in that trade? He would contend that the
corn trade was a free trade, nay, it was more than free, it was
protected, and had always been enembarrassed.—( Hear, hear.)
The Honourable Gentleman had also expressed a wish to know
how it was that land had obtained as high a price sow as it had
formerly obtained ? He (Mr. Alderman Thompson) had
made numerous inquiries in various quarters, and had found
time, e ct)
Perhaps d iffi c u
some
y rn
c o f
Honourable that recently no large estate whatever had been geldbu at any
finding
purchaser.— r hear.)ase o I
Gentlemanthe
en the other side of the House would inform him
whether or not such was the case. Although he could
not support the present measure, he was free to confess
that all his predilections were in favour of the manufacturer.
—( Loud cheers from the free-traders.) At a very early pe-
rind accident hat plac.'d him at the head of a very large este-
tdishment in a manufacturing town, and consequently he was
more interested in commerce and manufactures than in land.
I he Right Hon. Gentleman had a right to expect to hear from
him, as he was 1:ot disposed to stand still, what were his
views. He would advance whenever he saw an opportunity
which opened any improvement in the social condition of the
ocople.—(llear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had been most
successful in his financial operations, and possessed a surplus
revenue of between three and four millions. In lieu of the
aroposed alteration in the corn-laws, he (Mr. Alderman
Thompson) should advise that the duty upon an article of very
general consumption, viz., upon tea, should be reduced. A
large proportion of the labouring classes engaged in manufac-
tures were consumers of tea and sugar to a great extent, and
if the Right Hon. Gentleman had reduced the duty upon tea
o sixpence per pound, and the duty on sugar to one penny
per pound, he would not only have increased the revenue, but
would have bestowed at the same time a very great boon on
the labouring classes. The duty upon tea amounts to
from 150 to 250 per cent., and the people of this country
expend nine millions of money for their tea. This expen-
diture may be classified in the following manner, viz.—
Four millions are paid to Government. for duty, two millions
are expended in freight, dock charges, profits to importer and
retailer, and about two millions are paid to the Chinese people.
The state of our commercial policy with this nation is the
most miserable in the as orld. China is the only country that
will admit articles of British manufacture at an ad valorem
duty of 5 per cent., and he believed the whole trade of this
country was limited to receiving tea in return. The American
'rade with China was conducted on adifferent principle. Eng-
!and imported upwards of sixty million pounds of tea
from China, while America, which was the next largest
importing country, imported twenty millions, and the
!Illy which was imposed on that quantity did not amount
to one per cent. He would ask why a duty of 100 to 250 per
cent. was imposed by this country on tea, while the Chinese
i admitted British manufactures at live per cent., and while the
Americans allowed tea to be imported into their country at a
mere nominal duty? Ills opinion was that our trade with
China was in a most dangerous position, and required
the most stringent measures to be immediately adopted
ro prevent any disastrous consequences. He wished to express
this opinion with all due deference. The Right lion Baronet
had proposed a reduction in the article of tobacco. With
respect to that article, according to a return which was made
for that Honse in the year 1844, it appeared that 955 persons
had been convicted of smuggling tobacco, an article of a value
not exceeding 4d. per pound, and had actually been submitted
to an imprisonment of two months, and in some cases to a con-
siderably greater extent. The Hon. Gentleman having briefly
alluded to a reduction of duty on snap, expressed a
hope that nothing he had said would give offence to the
Right Hon. Baronet. He could assure the Right Hon.
Baronet that no man more highly respected him fe• his
talents, and that a strict sense of duty had compelled him to
oppose him on this occasion. During the long period he had
sat in that House, he had in general given the Right Hon.
Baronet his humble support. He deeply regretted that he
could not do so now. Ile had given no pledge, and was under
no engagement to his constituency further than that in 1841
he promised his general support to the Government, and it
was his intention to have continued it, could he have done so
in conformity with his avowed opinions.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the objections which the
Hon. Gentleman had taken to the measure were, that its
effects would be disastrous to the labouring classes ; and he
went through a series of returns, showing that the condition of
the labouring classes for the last few years had been consider-
ately affected—that when prices were low wages were also low,
and that when wages were high so also were prices. Imme-
diately previous to the dissolution of the last Parliament
he (Sir William I.Molesworth) had given notice of motion
to inquire into the differences of the prices of
food and the wages of labour. From the returns then
made he found that the wages of labour, especially of skilled
labour, were generally higher when prices were low and when
food was cheap. When food was cheap the labouring classes
expended a larger proportion of their earnings in articles of
dress and similar manufactures. This caused a greater demand,
and consequently there occurred a greater increase, in manufac-
tures and the other branches of trade. On the contrary,
when food was dear, the labouring classes were neces-
sarily compelled to diminish their purchases of articles
of clothing.—(llear, hear.) In consequence of the dimi-
nution of the demand, large stocks accumulated on the
hands of the traders. Manufacturers would decrease their
employment of labour, and the wages must necessarily fall.
It appeared to him that there was no connexion between low
and high prices and wages—but the amount cf the wages of
labour seemed to consist in the demand for it, in the increased
or diminished supply of manufactures. The Hon. Gentleman
having alluded to the fears of the protectionists of the effects
of the proposed measure, observed that no fitting or more
proper opportunity could be found than the present for the
total reeal of t'ee corn-laws. It had been said that this
was not a landlord's question. It appeared to him that
if free trade made any difference in the price of land
generally, it would be the landlord and not the tenant who
would suffer. But he anticipated no such bad results from the
measure. Both landlords and tenants would even-
tually be benefited by the cessation of protection.
He admitted, with Hon. Gentlemen opposite, that small
farmers without skill and capital would be greatly injured by
free trade, but they might depend upon it that the advance
of time and improvements in agriculture and manufactures
would tend to annihilate, without the aid of free trade,
the class of farmers, in whose behalf the Hon. Member for
Somersetshire had made so touching an appeal. For it had
been discovered—indeed, it was a well-ascertained fact—that
with the aid of capital and science production both in agricul-
ture and manufactures could he carried on with greater ad-
vent• ge than without them. But it might be imagined that
the application
of capital and science to the cultivation of
the land would tend to annihilate the unskilled and
needy farmer, and to diminish the demand for
labour. This was, however, a mistake, for in proportion
to the increase of capital applied to land, the demand for
labour became enhanced ; and it was a well-known fact that
if the whole of the land of this country were cultivated, it
would be more than sufficient to supply the wants of a larger
population than our own, and at a price, too, almost as low as
that of any other country in the world. What, then, might
he asked, was to become of the man without skill and capital ?
for it would be imagined, and properly too, that the man with
capital and skill would be enabled to undersell the man who
had not those qualities at his command. Why, this—the man
without skill and capital must abandon his speculation in
farming ; because if they were to give him an artificial pro-
tection, it would stop the accumulation of capital in the
country anti retard the progress of improvement. He came
now to another branch of the subject, namely, the value of
land, and, as a landlord himself, ho could state that the profits
produced from the land had never been higher than they were
at the present moment. But he denied that this result had been
caused by protection ; and in support of this statement, he would
just see what was the correct principle of ascertaining the value
of land. A piece of land, comparatively speaking barren, might
be of more value than another piece of land when comparatively
1 speaking fertile—but this anomalous proposition brought him
to the true test of the value of land. The value of land was
decided not so much by its fertility as the amount of its sur-
rounding population ; and when he considered the vast in-
crease that was taking place in the manufactures of the country,
1 and the increasing demand which was every day becoming
more apparent for labour, he could not help thinking that the
fears of Hon. Members opposite, and the landed gentry seve-
rally, on the subject of this measure, were quite unfounded.
Why, the manufacturing population of this country was accu-
mulating every slay ; and to meet the demands for food for this
increase, science and capital was being applied with greater
vigour than ever to land, thus showing that the value of land
depended upon the amount of population, and that rents in-
creased in proportion to the prosperity of manufactures. A
great place .
revolution was about to take the country. Com-
merce was prosperous, and be
fore long railroads would inter-
sect every part of England. The resources of the country by
this means would daily become more developed, and agricul-
tural districts would be brought as it wore into close connexion
with large and populous towns. Now, he would ask if these
circumstances would not advance, rather than retard, the in-
terests of the landowners? To whom then would they be in-
debted for these increased advantages ?—not tothe capital of the
landed interest, but to the accumulation of manufacturers.
He had already shown that freedom of trade would still
further promote the advance of manufacturing ingenuity ;
and he hoped he had shown that the interest of the agri-
culturist flourished when manufactures were in a state of
prosperity. • For these reasons, if there could be no better, he
should deem it his duty to give his cordial support to the
motion of the Right Hon. Baronet.

Mr. BENNET I' would throw aside all feeling of animosity
against either the Government or the Hon. Baronet opposite,
and in the of position he should give to the measure before the
House, he disclaimed being actuated by any party spirit. He
bad always supported tie Right lion. Baronet as a disinte-
rested individual not connected with any party, and therefore
he was at liberty to say, that the Right lion. Baronet, having
changed his sentiments, had acted most honourably in chang-
ing his conduct. For his own part, however, lie still enter-
tained the same opirions upon this subject as he did thirty
years ago. The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State
for the Home Department had expressed his opinion
that the object of political economy was to diffuse
the greatest amount of happiness amongst the largest number
of people. He perfectly agreed with this opinion, and the
question for him to consider was, would there be as much hap-
pine,s in the country without as there was with protection?
It was supposed, or rather he should imagine so, the cheapness
of food afforded the greatest amount of happiness to the largest
number of people ; but he would warn the Government to
take care that they did not, in cheapening food, commit the
error of creating more severe distress than at present existed
in the country. It was admitted on all hands, he believed, that
wages depended upon the proportion of the demand to its sup-
ply, and the Government would do well to consider whether,
by their present course of action, they would not lessen the
demand without lessening the supply. Now, he main-
tained that every quarter of wheat brought into this
country from a foreign nation would reduce the demand
for labour, and he was, consequently, strongly opposed
to the removal of restrictions placed on the
importation of corn. If they removed protection, he was con-
vinced that a great proportion of the land of this country
would be thrown out of cultivation ; and when they considered
that an acre of arable land was equal to four weeks' labour,
an acre of meadow land to two weeks, and an acre of pasture
to one week, he asked, could this measure do otherwise than re-
duce the demand for labour without diminishing the supply ?
The labourer might suffer most grievously, but what cared the
manufacturer? he made his 2.,)0,0001. in two years.—(Hear,
hoar.) For his own part, he had advocated the property-tax
many years ago ; he did not ask for the repeal of the malt-
tax ior any other tax. H. e was ready to vote that the taxes of
the country should be paid by the rich ; to tax the poor was, in
his opinion, an injustiee.—(Cheers.) If that was the last time
tiliCrald have it in his power to address that House,

he would honestly and fearlessly say that the rich
ought to be urged much more strongly than they
were at present to pay the taxation of the
country. —( Hear.) He would not use harsh language
when speaking of the conduct of the Anti-Corn-law Leaguers,
but he would venture to say that they went about the coun-
try addressing the agricultural labourers in language of the
most deceitful kind.—( otectionist cheers and cries of " No,
no," from the Opposition. ) They told those deluded people
that if the corn-laws were repealed, they would have cheap
corn and dear labour. But those two things did not exist
together.—(Protectionist cheers.) Cheap corn and cheap
labour might, however, exist together.—(Protectionist
cheers.) The labourer might be well off if they re-
leased him from the payment of those burdens under which
he at present laboured. But would the Anti-Corn-law Leaguers
vote for any proposition nhich would have for its object the
real benefit of the labourer ? whilst the members and lec-
turers of the League were addressing agricultural
labourers, they omitted to tell them that whilst the manufac-
turers were seeking for foreign trade they were at the same
time destroying the home trade.—( Hear, hear.) They did
not address them in the same honest terms as he did when he
went to speak at agricultural meetings. He spoke to them
honestly, because he looked upon them as his friends.
—(Protectionist cheers.) But the manufacturers conii•
dered their labourers as mere machines.—(Protec-
tionist cheers.) They talked to them in no such nonsensi-
cal terms as he (Mr. Bennett) did in addressing the
agricultural labourers.—( Hear, hear.) The Honourable
Member for Durham (Mr. Bright) had said something
of the late meetings of agricultural labourers which had
been held at Goatacre and one or two other places. Now he
(Mr. Bennett) happened to know something about those meet-
ings. At the Goatacre meeting there were bet ween 300 and
400 people, aed no more; and by whom were they addressed?
The lion. Member for Durham had said that the Anti-Corn-
law League did not pay their emissaries, but he (Mr. Bennett)
knew that they did.—( Loud cheers from the protectionists.)
They came into his own county, and said they would have a
"flare-up" there.—( Hear, hear.) Ihe attempt to have a
" flare-up "had been made long since, but it had failed. At
the last attempt there was a Mr. Edwards, who, to the best of
his (Mr. Bennett's) information—he was not sure whether
that information was correct, was a journeyman tailor, at Marl-
borough. That man attended all the League meetings
there; and at the last meeting he put a labouring man, named
Pedlar, in the chair, who made a speech, which was printed at
a tremendous length in the organ of the League, whilst
the speech which he (Mr. Bennett) had made was
complets ly burked.—( Cheers and laughter.) Edwards
admitted that he received a guinea a day for what he did.
Where he got it he (Mr. Bennett) did not know. God forbid
that it should be from the League.---(Cheers and laughter.;
That Tilart's business was to get " flare-ups" in the country for
the Anti-Corn-law League.—( Hear, hear.) And it appeared
that the lion. Member for Durham was disposed to have a
" flare-up" with him (Mr. Bennett). But he believed that
the time had come when this deception of the League was
about to be brought to an end.—(Protectionists' cheers. ) The
agricultural labourers were a very intelligent and respectable
body of men ; they were men whom be called and treated as his
friends.—( Hear, hear.) And such men could not be deceived
much longer. He admitted that at the Goatacre and other
such meetings; and, indeed, there might be found in every
parish in the country, a set of idle fellows who, for a certain
remuneration, would cry out " cheap bread and free trade"
for the Anti•Cern-law League, but the agricultural labourers.
as a body, were too intelligent and respectable to do any such
thing. He believed that the tide amongst that body
was turning very rapidly against the advocacy of free
trade. He was old enough to remember the excite-
ment which was caused many years ago in Wiltshire
about the property-tax ;at that time he was young, aspiring,
and active—he could not bear to see the deception which was
practised upon the labourers. There was a meeting held in
Salisbury, at which Mr. Hunt and Mr. Cobbett made them-
selves most active. He (Mr. Bennett) said to a shrewd, re-
spectable, and elderly gentleman, named Mr. Burton, " We
are neglect ing our duty ; here's Hunt and Cobbett upon the
hustings at Salisbury, and they are running down the pro-
perty-tax." The object of those agitators was national bank-
ruptcy.—( Laughter.) Mr. Burton said, in reply to him, that
he (Mr. Bennett) was a fool for taking any notice of them,
because the were doing the work of the wealthy against
whom they spoke so vociferously and fiercely- " We' 'said he,
" have property, whilst those fellows have none, and they are
doing our work in running down the property -tax." So he be-
lieved were the Anti Corn-law Leaguers doing the work of the
landowners of the county. There might be at Goatacre and at
n
l
e
,o 1
vei
soi
or t notfe otherfarm _psl,aue,easi a
farms," cry ta`
rid the Free-tradehke
;i n
bcuotr
then— poorsub-
wretches that made those cries did not know that the " free
trade in corn" and " subdivision of farms" would bring ruin
wouldA
grossnpen deceptionthemselveswas
and
be the man that would be ruined.—( Hear, hear.) Ile
was the man that would be crushed.—( Hear.) And had not
practisedthe upon farmers.—(t hem. hear,
The
farmer
har.)
the great manufacturers already crushed the little manufac-
turers ?—(Cheers. ) Last year the price of wheat
was 445. per quarter. The little farmers sold all
their wheat at that price because they could
not get anything more. But the great farmers
that had 4,000 sacks of corn, obtained 765. per quarter. That
was done by a rich farmer at Marlborough.—(Hear, hear.)
The colonies, which he (Mr. Bennett) looked upon as a portion
of the United Kingdom, would also be ruined by this measure
—( Hear, hear)—and the labourers at home would would be
screwed down to the lowest point of remuneration. There
would also be a very large confiscation of property in this coun-
try. If the mauufacturer found that his business was not re-
munerating, he had nothing to do but to extinguish his fires and
discharge his labourers, But not so with the landlord—his
capital was invested in hie land, and he must go on
whether he was prosperous or not.—(Protectionist cheers. )
Whatever might be his loss, he was compelled to stick tehis land.
He believed that if the present measure were passed into a law,
the price of wheat would be ultimately as low as 40s. per quarter.
The manufacturers seem to consider they are safe, but they
may be assured that as soon as this measure shall have passed,
that the sooner they make up their books, extinguish their
fires, and bid:adieu to the tall chimnies and crowded factories
the better, it would he for them. They might depend upon it
there was a time of severe and great distress coming upon them.
—( Cheers from the protectionists.) They are already manu.
facturing more than the world can consume, and foreign
natiuna are rising into competition with them, and bid fair to
out-rival them in their supplies of the markets of the world.
He would briefly allude to the question of wages. The Anti-
Corn-law League maintained that it was the duty of all persons to
buy in the cheapest anti sell in the dearest market. That prin-
ciple should be adopted with reference to wages—wa gees are nre
however governed by the farmer they are governed by the
demand for labour. He considered that the assertions of the
Anti-Corn-law League were a mass of contradictions. To the
farmer they said the repeal of the corn laws would not reduce
the price of corn. To the labourer it would not affect the price
of wages, and to the landlord they said, rents would not be
lowered. Such was the conduct of the League.—(" Hear,
hear," from the protectionists.) He must say one word with
reference to the county he represented, Wiltshire. There is no
county better farmed than Wiltshire ; everything is going on
well, science is doing wonders among them, every man is
exerting himself to the utmost, every thing is thriving, and
the labourers are employed.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member went on to state that it was a matter of astonish-
ment to him that so small a circumstance as the partial failure
of the potato crop should have been the means
of bringing forward such measures at present—
( Hear, hear.) He had much respect for Hon. Members
on both aides of the House; he considered them honest; nor
could he impute any dishonourable motives to them. He con-
sidered it, however, very extraordinary that Hon. Members
on his side of the House could make:such speeches ;_ that they
could take up such an argument as this, and say—" There must
be a Government, but I have more confidence in the Right
lion. Baronet on this side of the House, than I have for the
Noble Lord the Member for the City of London ; and as there
are but two parties, I shall abide by the party on this side."
What a lamentable state—continued the Hon. Member—what
a misfortune is this !—( Hear, hear.) No man would be more
distressed than I should, if there were no party to conduct the
affairs of Government; but I still think that the principles
which I advocate would become paramount, even if both parties
—the present parties in the State—would form a coalition.
The Hon. Member concluded by stating that he would oppose
the motion.

Mr. H. BERKLEY rose, and said that his Hon colleague
had advocated sternly and strongly the necessity of protection.
He (Mr. Berkley) had noted down some of the lion. Mem-
ber's remarks. He ( Mr. M. ) had stated that there was no special
necessity for the removal of protection, and that he considered
protection was a benefit to the country, and to the colonies, as
well as to every branch of native industry, and he advocated
protection to the utmost possible extent ; and he also severely
attacked Hon. Members who had ventured to change their
opinions on that subject. He (Mr. Berkley) thought that his
Hon.' Colleague's anger would be abated if he looked to his own,
conduct and opinions a short time since, and compared them
with his present course. The Hon, Member, a short time
since, had been addressed by his constituency at a public meet-
ing held in Bristol, the chairman of which wrote to tke Hon.
Member, requesting him to support the measures of Govern.
ment. He replied to the effect that he could not give his
vote in favour of that measure, but did not hesitate
to say that he thought it would be better for all
parties if the repeal of the corn-laws had been imme-
diate, instead of the measure proposed by the Government.
His colleague said that he had much reluctance in deserting his
political leader, but he would ask Mr. Miles, was it not the
opinion of the majority of the constituency that he represented—
a majority of that constituency that returned him to
Parliament—that free trade principles would be bene-
ficial to the country.—(Cheers.) It was not for him
to say what were the opinions of the constituency when he
(Mr. Miles) was returned, but he would say that the con-
stituency would now return free-traders for the city of Bristol.
Look to the important petition which he ( Mr. Miles) presented
from the county, signed by 18,000 persons. He undertook
to state to his lion. Friend that that petition showed that the
population of Bristol were for free trade. He would say this
much for the people of Bristol, that the great moral had not bean
thrown away upon them—of seeing two of the first statesmen
of the day standing forth united against the opinion of his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Miles), of whose integrity of perpose and honesty
of principle there was no doubt.—(Cheers• ) Of the honest
now
cßoilgavhitetHiounn. Baronet at the head s of theNobleLordt,h of her Majesty's
eMemberforLondonand
Governmentthe
no one now, he thought, could entertain any doubt, for it was
clear the change which had taken place in their opinions was
the result of honest conviction.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
would With
give these
hiso la ser
heartyvat i o
support hewould
the
e
brought for-
wardfor Durham (Mr. Bright) thought proper to express his
opinions respecting the county of Chester. Perhaps he might
be allowed to express his opinions in reply. If the Hon.
Gentleman had been as well acquainted with the cultivation of
the soil as he was with the manufacture of cotton goods
he ( Mr. Tollemaehe) had no doubt but the Hon. Gentleman
would be of a very different opinion. The Hon. Member for
Durham he believed to be a most determined and decided op..
ponent of the corn-laws, and well acquainted with manufac-
turing interests, but he felt that the Hon. Member knew little
with regard to agricultural affairs. He (Mr. Tullemache)
was intimately connected, both as a landed proprietor and a
practical farmer, with the county of Suffolk, and he could
say,
especially with regard to that county that agricultural im-
provement was going on as rapidly
as in any other county
whabever.—(Cheers from the protectionists.) He (Mr. Tolle-
mache) believed that the agitation got up by the Anti-Corn •
law League owed its influence entirely to the vacillating policy
pursued by her Majesty's Ministers.—( Loud cheers from
the protectionists.) He strongly recommended him (Mr.
Bright) to make some amends, and vote as he should vote,
against the free-trade principles of her Majesty's Ministers.—
( Laughter from the Opposition.) The Hots. Member spoke
of the proud aristocracy of Cheshire ; he (Mr. Tollemache)
supposed he meant the term to apply to the protectionists; but
he would not further notice the observations. With regard to
the Government question before the House the opinions be had
long entertained remained unchanged, and, therefore' he felt it
his duty to oppose the measure brought forward by her Majesty's
Government. If there were a scarcity of food existing in
Ireland, he should bo most anxious that an effectual remedy
should be applied, and that the opening of the ports, for a
limited period, should be one of those remedies. lf, during
that period, her Majesty's Government pursued a consistent
course of policy, he had no fear but that the corn-laws would
be maintained.—( Protectionist cheers.) He did not attribute
the present prosperous condition of the country to any relaxation of
protective duties. He believed that it was entirely owing to
the great increase conaevent upon a faCCeision of iuectipiN

harvests, the formation of railways and other public works, the
increased employment of labourers, and the expenditure of large
sums of money. He believed, also, that had no relaxation
taken place in protective duties, they would have
had much larger revenues. It was his firm
belief that it was impossible with free trade
principles to obtain remunerating prices for agricultural pro-
duce.—( Great cheers from the protectionists.) After the
policy pursued by her Majesty's Government with respect to
agitation in Ireland, it was his painful duty to declare that he
could not any longer be one of their supporters. He should
support them when he believed they were right, and though
he had the greatest possible respect for the Government as
individuals, he had no confidence in them as a Ministry.
The change of opinion that had taken place he was perfectly
satisfied with, although he did not concur with them. He did
not say but that change was caused from honest conviction—
but as that change had taken place, he (Mr. Tollemache)
thought that the Government were hound, as honest and
honourable men, to take the sense of the country, and
see what view their constituencies would take of
such changes.—( Loud cheers from the protectionists.)
He thought the Government were decidedly wrong in holding
office without making an appeal to the country. He could
not but fear that they laid themselves open to a charge of
making use of their power as a Government to overthrow
the principles of free trade. This was a serious charge,
and he thought they would have great difficulty
to maintain their consistency, but he did hope
and trust that that charge would be satisfactorily answered.
He was well aware that this measure was brought forward by a
Government professing to be Conservative, but as he knew he
was to fall, he should fall with honour to himself, and support
those opinions which he had always entertained, and which
would never involve disgrace.—(Great cheering from the
Protectionionists. )

Mr. T. S. DUNCONIBE observed that he highly approved
of the measures proposed by the Government, and believing
that they were of such a nature as would not only do honour
to the Minister, but would reflect credit on the Parliament
that adopted them ; and, believing the statement m :de by the
Right lion. Baronet, " that by public opinion, and through
' the iefluerce of public opinion alone, could he hope to over-
come the difficulties by which he was surrounded," er contend
with the obloquy with which ignorance and bigotry had assailed
him—(Loud cheers)—he considered it unbecoming those
who did not hold their seats through the nomination of
Peers, and who were therefore not removable at pleasure—but
who owed their seats to the free choice of the people--
on an occasion like this, to give to the Ministry either a silent,
jealous, or lukewarm support.—( Hear, hear, and cheering.)
Far be it from him to permit—in the few remarks he was
about to make—those Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of
the House to imagine that he was insensible to the painful and
false position in which they were placed, by reason
of their inability to keep pace with the changes of
opinion which they saw going on around them. It did not be-
come those on his side of the House to cavil er quarrel with
those changes, it was enough to feel grateful for it, and lie for
his part admired the ability with which it was carried init.—
( Cheers.) But he would tell those gentlemen fur whom he
had to express sympathy, that they were not taking the
right course to extricate themselves from the position in
which they were placed. Why, instead of indulging in every
personal abuse, could they not pursue some straightforward and
manly course?—(Hear.) But, no, they adopted a tort of hypo-
crital cant—" We give you every credit for your conscientious-
ness"—" We are sure you are quite sincere in your change of
opinion, but still we have no confidence in you as a Minister."
—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Shaw.) There (continued the
Hon. Member) was the Learned Recorder, who called his as-
sociates and colleagues, " political cowards."—( Loud cheers. )
His words were, " I have no confidence in these political
cowards."—(Hear.) Why, then, he ( Mr. Duncombe) would
say, if it be the case, why did they not come forward and at
once move a vote of want of confidence in the Ministers.—
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Such a course would be
manly—it would be intelligible—and it would be Par-
liamentary, because they themselves had pursued it in
1841. 'What did they then vote?—and why did they
vote? Because it was proposed to meddle with this very ques-
tion, viz., the commercial interests of the country. And their
vote was to this effect—" That a Government who legislated on
such a question ought to possess the confidence of the House."
—( Hear, hear.) They moved this, and they carried it. In
their address to the Queen on that occasin, they said, " that
it was their urgent desire to consult the interests, and promote
the welfare of her Majesty's Government; but that her
Majesty's Government should possess the confidence of the
House and of the country, and that that confidence was not
reposed in her Majesty's present advisers." Well, that was
their opinion in 1811. What did they do now ? Why, they
said that these gentleman did not possess the confidence of
the House or country.—( Hear.) Why, then, he would ask,
did they not move a vote of want of confidence?
Sir J. TYRRELL—Because you won't support us.—
( Great laughter.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE.—How did the Hon. Gentleman know
that ?—(Continued laughter.) What right had he to assume
that he would not support such a motion ?—( Hear. )
Sir JOHN TYRRELL—Your party would not.—(Hear. )
Mr. DUN COMBE continued—He had no party—his party
was that of the country—a party which he would never desert.
But what did they do? Why, they exhausted themselves in
throwing every kind of obloquy and censure upon the Govern-
ment, and some went so far as to charge the Right Hon.
Baronet with treason.—( Hear, hear.) He wanted to know
what they would have done under the circumstances in No-
vember last—how would they have met the emergency ? They
had been often urged to state how they would have dealt with
those circumstances, but they had never yet explained.— ( Hear,
hear, and cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet explained the
course which he proposed to adopt on that occasion, but ob-
stacles with which they were all acquainted occurred to pre-
vent him from carrying it out. He then resigned office.
He (Mr. D.) would ask them, were they prepared to take
the reins of Government when the Right Hon. Baronet
gave them up ?—( Hear, hear.) No, they were not. Mr.
Gladstone, in his address to the electors of Newark, had stated
that the Government of the country was offered to the Noble
Lords and Gentlemen who were the advocates of protection,
but they refused to accept it.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord on his right was then called upon to construct a Govern.
ment, but for some reason or other he failed too.—( Hear and
laughter.) He (Mr. Duncombe) supposed that Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite would admit, that some kind of Government
was necessary. How, he would ask, could the country be go-
verned under any other circumstances than those under which
the Right lion. Baronet resumed the seals of office. He con-
sented to accept office untrammelled by the fetters of party, and
sustained by public opinion alone. Ile wished that the
Noble Lord ( Lord John Russell) had acted in the same way,
and he was quite confident that public opinion would have sus-
tained him also in carrying out such measures as the exi-
gencies of the occasion demanded.—( Hear, hear.) The
Right Hon. Baronet had been taunted with change
of principle and even with treason—treason, he
would ask, to whom Treason to his party, trea-
son te the people, and treason to his own honour.
What does that mean? It meant that the Right Hon. Baronet
preferred the interests of the people to those of his party, and
the safety of the country to the confusion and misery which
was the consequence of adherence to the present system of com-
mercial policy. (Cheers. There was one treason
only which the Right Honourable Baronet could be
guilty of to his country, and that treason was to vacillate in
the course which he had proposed to adopt in the measures
at present under the consideration of the House.—( Cheers. )
The protectionists, however, said that they had the country
with them in the maintenance of protection. He would ask them,
where was protection lately in the West Riding of Yorkshire ?
Where was protection yesterday in Westminster? Now it
did not signify two straws which of the two gentlemen who
were candidates on that occasion were returned. It was
simply a question of protection. Had a protectionist remained
up to his knees eating cabbages in Covent-garden yesterday,
be would not have been successful. He knew that a great out-
cry had been made on the part of the tenant-farmers, and
agricultural labourers, and the Hon. Member for Oxford had
stated that protection could not be interfered with on the
ground that the tithes must be taken care of.--(" Hear, hear,"
and laughter.) It was a curious circumstance that no sooner
was anything for the good of the people proposed in that
House, but some Honourable Gentleman or other got
up and said, " Oh, you must take care lest this proposition
may interfere with the interests of the Church."—( Hear,
hear, and laughter.) lie (Mr. Duncombe) was given to un-
derstand that a cry was got up that the tenant-farmers and the
clergy were up in arms against the Ministerial measure.
Let the tenant-farmer get vote by ballot, and they
would no longer be found voting at the beck of Noble Dukes,
but for those measures which were conducive to their own and
to the public advantage. The tenant-at-will clause, however,
put an end to that, and left them to be influenced by the selfish
and tyrannical dictation of the landlords. He contended that
the clergy had not the slightest complaint against the measure,
and his authority for such an assertion was one which the Right
Honourable Baronet (Sir Robert Inglis) would con-
sider of some weieht. The authority to which he
referred was the charge of the Bishop of Rochester,
which was made in 1837, and reported in the Times news-
paper at that time. The laws relating to tithes had been ar-
ranged a short time before, and they had entered into a com-
pact at that time with the Church that tithes should not be
deteriorated by any alterations which might subsequently take
place with respect to the corn-laws. It so happened that he
( Mr. Duncombe) had joined with the Hon. Baronet (Sir R.
Inglis) in the support of that measure. He had also joined
the Hsi. Baronet on a recent occasion, when they both op-
posed the Maynooth grant, but they were influenced by very
different motives in taking the same side on those
occasions. With respect to the Maynooth grant he
(Mr. Duncombe) objected to it because it was opposed to
the voluntary principle ; but the Hon. Baronet, because it was
distasteful to the feelings of the high Church party.—( Hear,
hear.) With respect to the tithes, one motive for the line of
conduct which he pursued was that if certain lands were thrown
out of cultivation by a change in the corn-laws, those lands
would by that measure be saddled with a rent charge.
Another reason was because it gave to tithes a prior
claim before any other charges. Tithes were no
lien on the land before, but by that measure they became a
rent charge. (The Hon. Gentleman then read the extracts
to which he referred, from the Charge of the Bishop of Ro-
chester, to the effect that the Tithe Bill was as reasonable a
Bill as the clergy could expect, and proceeded to say,) The
only argument used by the Fonourable Gentleman opposite,
to which he thought it necessary to make any allusion,
was that drawn from the state of things in 1842. In
1842 the country was in a state of great distress; agitation
was rife, and the people, the poor of this country, were going
about without the means of employment, and many occur-
rences took place which resulted in the punishment of
those who had offended through the force of circum-
stances against the laws. When those dreadful occurrences
mea-
suresa
took place, he told the gentlemen on the other side of the
house,which
that w
would
shackled its industry, they would have prevented the results of
the great depression of that period. lie had himself brought
lddo they were
away
with t o gi
thatve the
monopoly c o n t r y
vi
ht
ei ohs ehd so
a motion before the House which would have saved the Go-
vernment from the policy they then adopted. lie had told her
Majesty's Government to give the country such measures as
would prevent the consequence which had taken place. That
measure was rejected. The Right Hon. Baronet, instead of
adopting his (Mr. Duncombe s) motion, sent down a regiment
of the guards and another of artillery. If the Right Hon.
Baronet had then proposed such a measure as the present, he
need not have sent down his army to quell disturbances
simply and solely occasioned by the distress of the people.
He would have prevented much, if not all, of that misery and
suffering which had taken place. The people of this country
were a noble and a generous people ; they were a forgiving
people, and they would forgive those acts of the Right Hon.
Baronet in the hope that they would benefit by the measure
now before the House ; and he (Mr. Duncombe) was quite
satisfied they would benefit by its results.—( Hear, hear. )
There was one part of the Right Hon. Baronet's speech which
was cheering, and that was when, in answering the Hon.
Members who had expressed themselves favourable te a total
repeal of those laws rather than to accede to the present mea-
sure, he expressed himself that he was willing with them
to repeal them altogether.—(Hear, hear.) Now he could tell
them that a part of this measure, which was important and
should not he lost sight of, was that which would make the
question a law of settlement. If they did not adhere to that
part of the measure, it would be a failure altogether.—( Hear,
hear.) A report had gone abroad in the manufacturing dis-
trict, and he hoped it was true, that the protectionists intended
to make the law of settlement a future consideration.
If they were to do this, there would be such an
agitation in the country, that the measure would be of no bee
nefit at all, and it would not Conciliate the people. There was
the q4.4tien of the per-laws, and he trusted the the Govern-

ment would make such an alteration in those laws as would
make a repeal of the corn-laws a perfect measure.—( Hear.)
; Not long since it was cell known that in Stockport
there were persons thrown out of employment— many
of them were Irishmen—and through the poor-laws
they had no claim upon that place, and they were sent back to
their own country, to which they were almost perfect strangers ;
they were entirely disowned, they were quite wretched and
unprotected. These poor men were, after having assisted to
make the fortunes of great capitalists—( Hear, hear, from the
protection party)—they were by these great capitalists sent
adrift. Now this was a period when the people were starving
through the country, and all this was occasioned
by the pocr.law. He trusted the Right Hon. Baronet would
look to this detestable law.—( Hear, hear.) lie believed that
her :Majesty's Government were sincere in this measure, and
that they would neglect no important feature of their policy.
It was with such views that he would give his most cordial sup-
port to the measure before the House. lie was satisfied that
it was calculated to uphold the character of the country, and
better its condition. As to the agricultural portion
of the House, he believed that when they would
consider the real merits of the measure, they would,
he believed, see that they were wrong in the errors
which they had so long and so pertinaciously adhered to.
Sir T. D. ACL AND said lie was very thankful for having
had the honour to have been so fortunate as to have caught the
Speaker's eye from amongst the large number of Hon. Members
who had risen at the same moment to address the
House, and the reason he felt se was because it
afforded him an opportunity of responding to the
observations the lion. Gentleman opposite had
.thought proper to address to the agricultural Members on this
side the House. The agricultural Alembers had been told by
the Hon. Gentleman that they had been a long time in error,
and that he hoped they had at length seen their error on this
question. No doubt, White agricultural Members did see that
they were in error, nothing would give them greater satisfaction
than to endeavour to amend that error ; and so far from evinc-
ing a wish to persevere in it, they would, on the contrary,
be foremost in their desire to see carried into effect a measure
which it had been said was so fraught with all those blessings
which it had been stated it would confer.—(hear.) But his
Right Hon. Friend, the Right lion. Baronet near him, when
he began his speech, by assailing the agricultural body and
calling them ungrateful and bigoted, he appeared to have for-
gotten that when he introduced his measure of 1842 they were
amongst the first and most firm of his supporters, when they
began to discern the great truth of its utility, of which they had
been deemed so ignorant—( Hear, hear) —and he was one of
that unhappy set. But he could assure the Right Hon. Baronet
that for the time he (Sir T. A.) had been in Parliament—during
the last thirty years—he had never heard a measure introduced
into that House which he had looked upon with greater anxiety
than the measure now before the House. He had never been
a supporter of excessive protection either in that House or else-
where, and he welcomed the measure of 1842 as a boon to
the country, though it had the effect of reducing the amount
of protection that the agriculturists had so long enjoyed.—
( Hear, hear. ) He now wished to explain what were the rea-
sons that operated upon his mind in inducing him to vote as he
intended upon this question. When the reduction of 184'3
took place, though he was told it was for the benefit of com-
merce, he did not, when it was once decided upon, make any
difficulty about it, or the appending of Canada ; en the con.
trary, he believed that the Right Hon. Baronet was sincere in
his expressions of a desire to benefit the country, and therefore
he gave him his support. What was the difference between
the position of the Government then and now? Whatever
might have been the motives of the Government then, it was
quite clear that they now thought they could not consistently
discharge their duty to their country so long as they allowed
protection to continue.—( Hear, hear.) The position of the
farmer now and in 1815 was very different. Up to that time
the farmers made fortunes by means of the war prices; but
then, on the commencement of the peace, the war prices
ceased, and the ruin of the farmer would have been the
result had not the protective laws been enforced for the pro-
tection of the agr:culturist. Subsequent to that period—that
was in 1822—the protection was diminished to 75., and in
1828 a further reduction was made arter a discussion of the
question as to what amount could be considered a remu-
nerating price to the agriculturist. A price was fixed
on them, but it underwent a further reduction in
1842 ; but still the cry was that. these much villified corn-
laws had not yet be: n sufficiently reduced. The speech of his
Right lion. Friend upon this subject was, no doubt, dis-
tinguished for its forensic talent, but it had failed to satisfy
him as to the expediency of the present measure—
( Hear, hear)—and, therefore, he would ask what
other reasons could be adduced for taking such a step?
The reasons stated might be deemed by some to have
had great excellence ; but to him they only appeared to possess
the merit of putting others in the dark.—( Hear, hear.) It
had been stated there were three reasons of policy and one of
justice for the measure; but his opinion was that the dictum
of Mr. Huskisson was the only basis of justification for that
restrictive policy which that statesman had deemed necessary,
but which he afterwards said could not be defended, though
this country ought to be in such a position as not to be de-
pendent on a foreign country for her supply of food.—( Hear.)
It had been said by Mr. Huskisson, " Let corn be cs cheap as
it will, I care not, if it be not of native growth.—( Hear,
hear.) The principle on which every Legislature had acted
since 1815 had been such as to ensure that amount of protec-
tion to native agriculture as enabled the country to look to
itself and not be exclusively dependent on the foreign market
for the necessary supply of food.—( Hear, hear.) It was a re-
markable thing—though he only complained of it for his own
satisfaction—that the main and centre spring of the entire
movement had not been mentioned, nor even alluded to, in the
three very able speeches of the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of her Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear.) He (the
Hon. Member) fairly owned that he did not possess the
wit to discover what the reasons were that altered the previously
expressed convictions of the Right Hon. Gentleman in the
year 1845, when he had avowed himself adverse to such
measures throughout his entire career. Even the Noble Lord
the Member for London, when he introduced his fatal proposi-
tion on which his Government was defeated, acknowledged. the
principle, to a certain extent, of protection.—( Hear, hear.)
He, and Hon. Gentlemen who agreed in his view of the matter,
did not want to shut out corn, nor did they wish to see starva-
tion and famine.—( Hear, hear.) lie doubted not they all
possessed humanity, but they should protect their people; there-
fore he contended that it was humanity, not personal interest,
that led them to take the position they did on the question.
They did not want high duty at a period of high prices, but
the time they required it was when the price of corn went down. ,
That was the plain matter of fact. They wished to give com-
petent remuneration for the investment of capital, which, if not
given, the soil would cease to be cultivated. Now, what had
they been told by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of her .Majesty's Government ?—why, `°that the prosperity of,
agriculture did not depend on the high price of wheat.
That was one of the reasons why the agriculturists above all
others should in justice have time given to them. Anti if a
scanty harvest should occur at home with a scanty supply from
abroad, at the moment when their estates were going back in
their produce, they would find themselves in the very situation
which it had been the object of all legislators for the last thirty
years to guard against. They might depend on it that
the love prices they then enjoyed had arisen from the exer-
tion% of the agriculturist, and if the times and seasons were
unfavourable the agriculturists placed their reliance on their
favour. Let that be his answer to the Hon. Member for
Durham, instead of rendering railing for railing ; and to the
speeches of all others who chose to rail, both in his presence or
in his absence. He felt it due to the Hon. Member to say,
that he had very much improved of late in his way of speaking,
and that he used his talent in a more temperate manner. He
( Sir T. Acland) did say that the Hon. Member for Durham and
other; had in the course of the debate indulged in personal
reflections and attacks on the great body of the country gentle-
men, and had almost imputed to them the consciousness of con-
tinuing in the policy which eventually led to misery and starva-
tion. He said to the Hon. Member, and to all others, that
that was his answer to all objectors to the corn-laws, on the
ground that they would cause starvation to the labourer in
order to benefit the landlords. In the year 1815 the price of
wheat was 975. 6d., and if they took the average of the five
succeeding years, they would find that the price varied
from 104 s. to 105 s. Gil. per quarter all the year round.
Under the protective laws the prices descended rapidly, so that
in the last four years the price had become us low as 51s. per
quarter, so that during the last thirty years the price of corn
was reduced more than one-half. That was his answer to all
those who accused him of making the bread of the people dear
for his own benefit. He would take the average of the im-
ports during the years 1822, '23, '24, as compared with the im-
ports in the years 1842, '43,'44. During the first three years the
average imports amounted to 35,000,000 of tens per annum,
and during the last three years the average of the
same imports was no less than 70,000,000 tons per
annum. The value of the imports during the years 1822, '23,
'24, was 55,000.0001., and during the years 1842, '43, '44,
the value of the imports was from 141,000,0001. to
145,000,0001. That showed that the mercantile
community had more than doubled their trade. With
regard to : e shipping imports during the year
1342, they amounted on the whole to 4,50 5000 togis6•
Now he would ask what had happened between 1842 and
serious
18 1846
to justify the 'change now proposed ?
( ea
matter the Right Hon. Baronet had statedasrli Thenfluencing him
to his present course—the apprehended famine in Ireland. He
(Sir T. D. Acland) thought he might dispose of this reason
by simply stating what he was sure every one would agree
to. Had the Right Honourable Baronet in last Novem-
ber, when he was apprehensive of coming famine from the
failure of the potato crop, by an Order in Council opened
the ports, and come down to that House the first day of the
session, and asked for an indemnity, not a single voice would
have been raised against it.—( Hear, hear, and cheers from
the Conservative benches.) If he had thus proposed a tempo-
rary measure, he would have received the unanimous support
of the House. He (Sir T. D. Acland) grieved, for the Right
Hon. Baronet's own sake, as well as for their sakes,
that he had introduced a most litigated question to meet
the emergency, instead of acting in this manner. By the
course he had taken he hail done himself great
injustice. He (Sir T. D. Acland) remembered the Noble
Lord the Member for the City of London having placed him-
self in a similar difficulty, with regard to the tithe question in
Ireland. In attempting to arrange it, he introduced a mode
which excited the greatest opposition and ill feeling—he
meant the appropriation clause.—(llear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Baronet had placed himself in an analogous posi-
tion. In November last he might have opened the ports,
had he wished to have done so, and he (Sir T. D. Acland)
was sure the house generally wished he had seen the pro-
priety of that course. But in making the proposition to do
that, it would seem that he had told his colleagues that the
opening of the ports involved the reconsideration'of the whole
laws that related to the importation of food. From that it
would seem that the opening of the ports to his (the Right
Hon. Baronet's) meaning was a repeal of the corn-laws. That
if the ports were once opened they would never be shut
again.--(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.) It was
no wotider then that his Right Hon. Friend found only three
Members of the Cabinet to support him. What he (Sir T. I).
Acland) complained of was, that the Right Hon. Baronet did
not separate the two branches of the question, at least
in point of time. First, to relieve the immediate distress,
and to leave the question of the permanent repeal
of the corn-laws to be debated during the sessior.
and to allow Parliament to say whether or not the time was
come to do away with the corn- laws.—( Hear, hear.) The
Right Hon. Baronet, no doubt, had been much influenced by
the apprehended famine in Ireland, and scarcity in this coun-
try ; still he had not done justice to that House, in not pro-
pos.ng a measure of relief in which they could has r
all united with ono heart and one mind.—(hear, hear.)
lie had one thing more to say, and it was, to ask what this law
had done for Ireland ? 'I here were 1,000,000 quarters of corn
at present in their ports, and why were these not sent to
Ireland ? Surely the necessity for this measure could
he obviated by such a proceeding. This quantity of
corn would give food to 4,000,000 of persons for one quarter of
a year. These were his views on the general merits of this
law, and he was not prepared to accept it at the hands of the
Right Hon. Baronet, lie could not, like him, in three short
weeks, learn this new lesson ; and though the Right lion. Ba-
ronet might be willing to lead, he (Sir T. Ackland) could not
in principle follow. There were circumstances to be taken
seriously into account on the other side, but he would retain
the opinions that had hitherto guided him, till he were con-
vinced that another course was calculated to do more
that at
mere good to
the country. He was convinced that
present existed would be successfully the
m ete would be for.
, agitation
if men were
but firm and resolute ; and Sc A
was sntttir.
LChorti •la League
given if he said that h
would never have progressedt to a settlement of this
question, had the Right lion. Baronet been true to the
kinoiple: on which he hut accepted Gvvernrrtent, He (Sir

T. Acland) considered men who could expend their money i
the manner that the supporters of the League did, had no right
to complain of the distress that at present pressed upon the
country. He had no doubt that if the opinion of the Govern-
ment had been expressed at an earlier period for or against
protection, they should not then be in their present position.
When he last met his constituents he told them that he would
dispassionately consider this question when it came before the
11. use. Ile had done so, but he had heard no reason given
for the change which had been proposed. He would, however,
offer no factious opposition. It that House should sanction
the measure by a considerable majority, he would offer no
further opposition; but if, on the contrary, the division
should he a close one, then the sooner the Right
Hon. Baronet sent them to the right about the better.
Lord ALFRED PAGET had listened with a great deal of
attention to this debate, and Hon. Gentlemen opposite would
forgive him for saying that he thought a great many of them
had been a little hard upon the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear,
hear. )—No doubt they had causes of complaint, but still, when
they came to consider what the Right Hon. Baronet had sacri-
ficed, he thought they must be convinced that nothing but a
sense of public duty could have induced him to have brought
forward this measure. The Right Hon. Baronet had bad a
strong Government, had been supported by a large majority
in that House, and yet now, north, east, west, and south,
nothing but the renegade Minister was talked about.—( Hear,
and laughter.) He thought the Right Hon. Baronet had
made as large sacrifices as ever had been made by any
public man, and for conscientious motives. The Hon. Gen-
tleman who had just spoken had said, that the Noble Lord
(Lord John Ru.sell) was the most proper person to bring this
motion forward; and so did he (Lord A. Paget) think. He
always supported that Noble Lord, and he hoped long to do so.
With regard to the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet, he could
only say that he should give it his support. He did not, how-
ever, do so because his opinions had undergone a change, for
lie had long been attached to the broad principles
of the forlorn hope that had been led on by the
Hon. Member for Northampton, and he hoped shortly
to see the corn-laws repealed altogether. His family derived
their income entirely from land, and in conclusion he would
assure the House that they did not feel any alarm at the mea-
sure of the Right Hon. Baronet. _

Mr. B. BINGHAM BARING said the Hon. Member
made some allusion to Catholic Emancipation. Now,
did the Hon. Member recollect how that measure
was carried? ad he remember that it originated
with a small party, and that the Government of the time al-
lowed the question to convulse the whole nation before they
yielded to the pressure from without ? Now, did the Hon.
Member wish this question to be carried to that point? if so,
he could only assure him. that to gratify his wishes would be
endangering property, and sacrificing the best interests of so-
ciety. Under these circumstances, was it not better for them
to settle the question at once, now that it was a
mere topic of discussion amongst thinking men ?—( Hear, hear. )
A very large class of agriculturists had themselves declared
that protection was unnecessary.—(Loud cheers.) In
order that the decision might be unanimous, it
was necessary that the House should be unanimous ;
otherwise the country would not have much confidence in
their deliberations. He hoped, as the House would in
a great measure be acting as a judge in its own
cause, the Members would act in such a manner
upon this question as to gain the credit and
esteem of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Their decisions had
been hitherto respected, and he trusted tkat Hon. Members
would not forfeit the high character which they had hitherto
possessed.
On the motion of Mr. C. BRUCE,
The debate was adjourned till to-morrow.
BURGHS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com.
mitted.
The House adjourned at Twelve o'clock.

THE FREE-TRADE CANDIDATES

FOR SOUTH LANCASHIRE.

A meeting of the Council of the League, and other sub-
scribers to the League fund, was held at their offices, last
Tuesday evening, at which a numerous committee was ap-
pointed to canvass for the signatures of electors of this
division to a requisition to the lion. C. P. Villiers, M.P.,
and William Brown, Esq., requesting them to become can-
didates for the representation of South Lancashire at the next
general election.

The following is a copy of the requisiton
"TO TIIE HONOURABLE CHARLES PELIIAM VILLIERS, M.P.

AND WILLIAM BROWN, ESQ.
"Gentleman—We, the undersigned, electors of the
southern division of the county palatine of Lancaster, re-
spectfully address you, in the belief that the present is the
most suitable period for soliciting you to become candidates
for the representation of this division of the county at the
next general election. We are induced to do this from the
deliberate conviction that the representation of the vast and
varied interests of this important section of the kingdom will
be adequately sustained by you; that you will be firm in the
support of measures founded on the most comprehensive and
impartial views of what is necessary for the general good 01
all classes of the community ; and that, especially, the prin-
ciples of free trade will, in their widest signification, their
fullest integrity, find inyou ardent and uncompromising friends.
" We make the tender of our support to you, Charles Pel-
ham Villiers, as a testimony of our gratitude and admiration
of your persevering advocacy of the total and immediate
repeal of the corn-laws in the House of Commons, continued
from year to year in the face of obstacles, arising from the
selfishness of same, and the indifference, almost equally cul-
pable, of others, until your efforts, along with those of your
coadjutors out of doors, raised up throughout the kingdom
a spirit and determination which will not subside until they
have marked this period, to all future time, as the era of
commercial reformation.

" We make the like tender of our support to you, William
Brown, believing that your enlightened views and enlarged
experience on commercial subjects eminently qualify you
for representing this portion of the empire—the seat and
centre of our manufacturing industry—the very heart where
all its pulsations begin ; in addition to which, your having
undertaken to contest the division on a recent occasion, at
considerable personal inconvenience, in the belief that, though
not successful, yet that certain good would result, gives you a
claim to our support, to which we are anxious to respond.
" Gentlemen, in the firm persuasion that, should you
consent to be put in nomination, you will be triumphantly
returned to Parliament, we respectfully pledge ourselves not
only to give you our persoual support, but to endeavour to
secure your return by every other constitutional means in
our power, and we fervently hope that the connexion thus
formed may be long maintained, by the honourable fulfilment
of our respective duties as constituents and representatives.—
We are, your faithful servants.—(liere follow signatures.)"—
Monchetter Guardian.