The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-28 00:00:00

THE SUN,

Mr. SCULLY wished to know whether the Govern-
ment, supposing Hon. Members went to Ireland, were
prepared to give to the people of that country that
beaefit and protection which they had hitherto coltu-
maciously refused.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the first duty of
the Government was to put down insurrection in Ireland,
the Government were determined to do so, and that was
the only answer he could give to the Hon. Member.
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS BILL.
Oa the motion that the House should resolve itself
into Committee on this Bill,
Colonel SIBTHORP rose to oppose it. He could tell
government that if they attempted to send their com-
mission to Lincoln, and it they came to make inquiries
in this House, he would use very strong measures to
turn them out. He wished to know why all the bo-
roughs against which bribery and treating had been re-
ported by the Select Committees were not included in
the schedule—why were ten boroughs to be shown up
and eight others allowed to escape? The Bill would
give a premium to perjury—it was en underhand way of
proceeding not to obtain facts, but to establish suspi-
cion, and whether supported or not ho should feel it his
duty to take the sense of the House against every clause.
He moved as an amendment that the House go into
Committee that day three months.
Mr. ANSTEY seconded the amendment.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, in supporting the
Bill, said that if the Hon. and Gallant Member could point
out the case of any boroughs not now in the schedule, in
respect to which corrupt practices had been specially re-
ported, it would be proper to extend the inquiry to them.
The sole object of the Bill was to make inquiry into the
allegations of corrupt practices, in order to devise mea-
sures to prevent the recurrence of such practices for the
future. He hoped the House would go into Committee,
and unite with the Government in its endeavour to make
the Bill as effective as possible for its object.
• Mr. PACKE spoke in favour of the Bill, which he
thought infinitely preferable to the measure of the Hon.
Member for the Flint boroughs. He, however, should
prefer that the inquiry were made in all cases by Com-
mittees of the House. . . . .

---111r.11;. PALMER asked whether the inquiry was not
to be confined to those boroughs in respect to which the
Election Committees had reported specially ?
The SOLICITOR. GENERAL—What he meant was,
such boroughs as the Committee had reported corrupt
practices had prevailed in, and as to which they recom-
mended further inquiry.
Mr. HUME said it was a question whether the same
vice did not pervade all boroughs, large and small, and
'whether it would not be better to pass some general mea-
sure applicable to all. Unless something was done before
the next election, hardly a single Member could hope to
retain his seat if any person thought proper vexatiously
•to petition against him. They ought to know to what
extent candidates might go, without being subject to the
laws against treating.
Mr. ANSTEY thought the Bill was objectionable, not
merely in detail, but in principle. He therefore must
oin in the opposition to the motion for its committal.
here was no distinction made in the Bill between those
• cases where the Members have been unseated for bribery
and those where the report has been that treating only
had been proved. The real object of the Bill was to set
aside. the decisions of those Committees which did not
think further inquiry necessary, and to retry those cases
which had been already tried, and to deprive the consti-
tuencies and Members of the boroughs to which the Bill
was to apply of those exemptions from further prosecu-
tions, which, by the decisions of the Election Commit-
tees, they were entitled to.
An Hose MEMBER here moved (eight o'clock) that
the House should be counted, but, there being above
forty Members present, the business proceeded.
Mr. ANSTEY went on to allude to the provisions for
indemnity to witnesses .—(Cries of " Divide, divide.")
The House (exclaimed the Hon. Member) shall not di-
vide; I say that in the spirit of prophecy.—(Great
laughter.) If a guilty party chose to come forward and
admit that he had given bribes, he could not be punished;
on the other hand, he was rewarded. He might ruin his
dupes and disfranchise a borough, but was himself held
harmless, whei her his evidence were true or false. Guilty
parties had only to add perjury to their other crimes, by
involving theconstituency, and they could not be touched.
This gas nothing less than a premium to false wit-
nesses. By the 16th clause parties unwillinc, to come for •
ward were subjected to the penalties heretofore existing,
with the exception thatwitnesses examined before the Co-
mmittee or commissioners could not be made witnesses
on a prosecution against them. Whatever the motive,
the effect of this clause would be to take away from the
public any security that might be left against corrupt
practices. The clause relating to expenses held out a
direct inducement to the commissioners to prolong their
inquiries and multiply business, power being reserved to
the Treasury, in whom the House had so little confi-
dence, to make order for the payment of extraordinary
expenses to an unlimited amount. The inquiries would
probably be to a great extent ex parte, for such was the
general character of the Bill; but no decision, however
unjust, could be called in question after six months.
This was essentially a private Bill, notwithstanding the
enactment that it should be taken to be a public Act;
and this would give rise to a vast amount of litigation.
Three clauses of the Bill virtually repealed the Act 7 & 8
Victoria. under which contested elections were now
tried. The power to appoint two commissioners, who
should possess all the powers of the House, was most
objectionable, as involving the principle of double dele-
Hation. Referring to the schedule of the Bill, he found
orsham was one of the boroughs to which it referred.
Why, there were actions pending for penalties, if they
had not been compromised, arising out of the Horsham
election; and was it proper-to legislate on that subject,
while these actions were pending before a competent
tribunal? The cases of Leicester and Derby offered this
remark—that while in the latter the Whigs only had
bribed, in the former, not only Whigs, but Radicals, and
the leaders of the newly-formed Reform party, had been
guilty of the same practices. He seconded the amend-
ment on grounds of principle, and not of detail, for he
objected to every enactment of the Bill.
Mi. HUDSON said he had opposed this Bill in a
former stage, but should not now vote upon it. His
epinion of the Bill was not altered ; he thought it would
create a great amount of strife and heart-burnings. Ho
had known what it was to be the subject of one of those
inquiries, and to have his private correspondence re-
ported and all his transactions exposed. If investiga-
tion were instituted it should be general. An Hon.
Member of that House had openly stated that there had
been gross bribery at the last election for London, and
had even mentioned the names of those who had paid
the price of corruption. If any inquiry was made, it
should include the last election for London. It was pre•
posterous to set up a crusade against all elections at which
money had been distributed to the poorer electors. He did
not speak of bribes of course, nor had the small sums given
to poor electors for their dinner, or for their reasonable
expenses to and from the place of palling, anything to
do with bribery. If it were decided that half crown
tickets or five shilling tickets given in this way to the
poor electors were to vitiate elections, the result would
be to throw the franchise wholly into the hands of the
rid, for unless sustenance on their way to and from the
polling places were given to the humbler electors, they
Would not be able to attend and exercise their franchise
" all; for the very practical reason that they could not
k.ilford it. What did the Right Hon. Baronet propose to
do when he had got his report? There was no practical
Intimation as to what the result was proposed to be.
After the decided division which had taken place on a
fortner stage of the Bill, he should not vote against the
present stage, though he still retained all his objections
to the measure.
Mr. URQUHART supported the amendment.
The House divided, when there appeared—
. For the motion
For the amendment
Majority
The House then went into Committee.
.0n clause 1 being proposed,
Mr. ANSTEY said he should move the omission of
those words in the clause which authorised inquiries
into elections in reference to which Committees already
nominated had not made a special report; and he should
iftetwards, whatever the division on that amendment,
move the omission of the clause altogether.
Colonel SIBTHORP contended for the impartial ex-
tension of the inquiry.
' Mr. ANSTEY then put the amendment he had inti-
*tiled, limiting the inquiry to elections with respect to
*Okla special reports had been made.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL suggested the pro-
priety of postponing the amendment until they came to
the lust of boroughs.

Mr. REYNOLDS deprecated the manner in which, at
this period of the session, the Honourable and Learned
Member for Youghal, in the spirit of mere opposition,
occupied the time of the House.—(Hear, hear.) There
had that day been consumed four hours in the discussion
whether the Bill was to go into Committee, of which
four hours the Hon. and Learned Member had absorbed
three.--Inear, hear.) Honourable Gentlemen present
Clearly showed themselves to be members of Job's family
by their magnanimous endurance on the occasion.—
'Wear, hear.) Before he came into Parliament be had
.been warned by his friends not to weary the attention of
the House by long, rigmarole, absurd speeches about
nothing —(Hear, hear)—and he had, from a feeling of
respect to himself and to the House, abstained from per-
petrating such speeches— (Laughter)—but certainly,
ns a zealous repealer, he ought to hail such speeches
in the Hon. and Learned Member for Youghal, in the
conviction that if the Hon. and Learned Member could
Manage to get fifty other Irish Members with equal
strength of lung and obstinacy of pertinacity—(Hear,
hear)—the imperial House of Commons would give
repeal in sheer weariness and disgust.—(Laughter.)
Mr. ANSTEY, who, on rising, was received with ge-
neral and loud cries of " Oh, oh," protested against the
attack made on him by the Hon. Member for Dublin,
whorls he charged with being influenced in his new zeal
for the Government by views of personal advancement,
tnd by the Reform Club contribution in aid of his elec-
on committee expenses, which the Right Hon. Member
for Drogheda had admitted himself a donor to.—(Loud
*ties of " Oh, oh.")
Sir W. SOMERVILLE demanded to know by what
authority the Hon. and Learned Member thus introduced
ilia name on this occasion?
Mr. ANSTEY had no hesitation in answering the
°ll. Baronet. The Hon. Baronet admitted, or did not
deny, the other night, that he had paid money for the
support of an election, an impeachment of which upon
Petition was now pending; and he said that the money
ne not paid by him in the capacity of Secretary for Ire-
'cod.

Sir W. SOMERVILLE—I said nothing of the kind.
Mr. ANSTEY said he was in the recollection of the
ruse. Whatever verbal variations there might be
tOween the Honourable Gentleman's statement and
,8 he could not tell. Unless his ears were tree-
oknerous that was the substance of what the Hon. Mem-
uetsitid.—ob.)
kr SOMERYILLE—I beg to say that nothing
or
of
me the other night that could give the shadow
a foundation for what the' Hon Member has tated.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL appealed to the Com-
mittee whether such personal discussions were consistent
with the dignity of the House or the furtherance of pub-
lic business. He hoped that the Hon. Member for
Youghal would withdraw his amendment.
Mr. ANSTEY must say, before he replied to that ap-
peal, that the Hon. Gentleman had not answered his
question.
The CHAIRMAN put it to the Committee whether
it accorded with the dictates of propriety or discretion
that they shouli allow such discussions as this ?
In answer to a question from Mr. PACKE,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the provi-
sions of the Bill could only apply to those cases in which
this House sat in Committec on Election Committees.
Mr. ANSTEY said that he would press his amend-
ment.

The galleries were then cleared; and on our read-
mission we found that no division had taken place, the
Hon. Gentleman having withdrawn his amendment.

After some verbal amendments the clause was agreed to.
On the second clause being proposed,
Col. SIBTIIORP said that he would move that the
clause be omitted as entirely unconstitutional.
After a few words from the SOLICITOR-GENERAL and
Mr. HENLEY,
Mr. GODSON objected to the clause.
Sir D. L. EVANS supported it.
Mr. T. HOBHOUSE thought that the clause violated
the principle of English law, which declared that a man
ought not to be called on to give evidence against him-
self. The clause would convert every Member into an
informer against his own constituents.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said a few words in
explanation.
Mr. C. BERKELEY was so far opposed t ) the view
taken of the clause by his lion. Friend the Member for
Lincoln as to be quite ready, and even desirous, to be
examined as to the practice at his own election, his bo-
rough being one that was impugned.
Mr. MANGLES thought that a Member who gave
evidence of corruption amongst his constituents was
serving them and doing his duty by his country.
Mr. PACKE supported the amendment for striking
out the clause.

Mr. HENLEY moved the omission of words from the
clause, the effect of which would be to exempt the sit-
ting Member or Members, any candidate or candidates,
or their agentr, from examination before the Committee.
Mr. R. PALMER said, that as the law stood a man
might be constitutionally examined, even in his own
case, if he were indemnified.

Mr. BANKES thought that there should be an in-
demnity for constituencies as well as for Members.
Mr. C. BERKELEY said, that it corrupt practices
prevailed in Cheltenham, he would be happy to be the
person to disclose them.
Sir D. L. EVANS thought that the amendment went
too far in including agents.
Mr. R. PALMER did not think the amendment
w ould effect the object contemplated by his Hun. Friend.
After a few words from Mr. HENLEY,
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 22
Against it lOB
Majority - 88

Mr. BANKES- said that by the Bill an alternative
was allowed to Committees of delegating their power to
a commission, who were to be lawyers of three years'
standing, and to such delegation he should object. The
majority in that House might use such a power for party
purposes. Ile had voted for the second reading ot the
Bill, but if this part ot it was not altered he would vote
against the third reading. He moved that the words
relating to commissioners be omitted.
The SOLICITOR•GENER AL hoped the House
would not adopt the amendment. The object of having
commissioners was to save expense and delay by ena-
bling the inquiries to be made upon the spot.
Colonel bIBTHORP said that was not the real rea-
son. The real reason for the commission was to secure
patronage tor the Government.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the judges were
to appoint.
Colonel SIBTHORP—Ay, in one sense, but don't
tell me there won't be a Dawning-street nomination.
Mr. URQUHART opposed a commission, on the
ground that the House ought not i❑ any way to surren-
der its prerogative.
Mr. ANSTEY, amidst groans and cries of "Divide,"
moved that the Committee report progress.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL expressed his hope
that the Hon. and Learned Member would not press his
motion, at least until the clause under discussion was
disposed of.

Mr. ANSTEY persisted in his'motion, and complained
that the Hon. and Learned Member for Salford never
moved the adjournment of the House when it interfered
with the Government business.—(" He's gone to Good-
wood."—Laughter.)
Col. SIBTHORY seconded the motion, mainly on
account of the absence of the Noble Lord the Member
for the eity of London, who was most probably enjoy-
ing a Ministerial fish dinner, instead of looking after
the interests of his immaculate constituency.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority —lls
Mr. HENLEY suggested to the lion. and Learned
Solicitor-General whether it would not be better to re-
port progress, seeing that the clause under discussion
involved a principle which would require much con-
sideration, and that the House had already sat twelve
hours.—( Hear, hear.)
The SOLICITOR •GENERAL was anxious to finish
the clause, atter which he was willing to accede to the
wishes of Hon. Members and report progress.
Mr. URQUHART said that he had sat there for
twelve hours without having had an opportunity of get-
ting anything to eat.—(Laughter and cries of " Oh.")
Gentlemen who had only come in at a late hour, and
who had spent the day in gratifying their carnal appe-
tites, might cry " Oh"—(Loud laughter and cries of
" Oh")—but that should not prevent his supporting
the motion of the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire.—
(Loud cries of "Question" and " Divide.") He trusted
they would get, another day and another occasion to
discuss this clause, which, in fact, contained the vital
principles of the Bill.
After a few words from Mr. WAWN,

117

Mr. BANKES moved that the debate be adjourned.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL hoped that the Hon.
Member would not persist in his motion. The Com-
mittee was quite prepared to hear with the attention
they deserved any observations he might have to make.
Mr. BANKES said there were many other Hon. Mem-
bers who had observations to make, and who were not
present. He must therefore persist in his motion for ad-
journment.
After an observation from Mr. MANGLES,
Mr. HENLEY entreated the House to let the Bill stop
fur the night.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL hoped that, when the
Bill next came on, the Hon. Members opposite would
not prevent the House from going at once into Commit-
tee o❑ it.
The Chairman then reported progress, and the House
resumed.
DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH ROME BILL.
Mr. ANSTEY asked whether this Bill would be
brought on on Monday ?
Lord PALMERSTON would state on Monday when
he would bring it on.
MILITIA ESTIMATES.
On the motion of Mr. F. MAULE, a Select Committee
was appointed to prepare these estimates.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
In reply to Mr. SPOONER,
Lord MORPETH said, he proposed to have this Bill
reprinted, with the Lords' amendments, before the House
was called on to consider those amendments, and an
order for reprinting the Bill was made, the amendments
to be considered on Thursday next.
NEW BILLS.

Bills were ordered to be brought in, on the motion of
Mr. G. HAMILTON, for consolidating and amending
several of the laws relating to attorneys and solicitors
in Ireland;

Sir W. SOMERVILLE—for the protection and im-
provement of the salmon, trout, and other inland fishe-
ries in Ireland;
Mr. C. LEWIS—to continue an Act to amend the
laws relating to loan societies; and
Mr. PARKER—to authorise the application of part
of the unclaimed money in the Court tor the Relief of
Insolvent Debtors in enlarging the court-house of the
said court.

The House adjourned at Quarter past Two o'clock.

HIGHLAND STOCKINGS and THE

the
knitting
amongefforts
ART OF KNITTING
It
mad is at
ehgyrLaifciin o lea
Lady Mackenzie
tlrn that
encourageto
the women on the Gairloch property are becoming
more
and more successful. The Gairloch stockings
well known, and the demand for them is in
are now
r
every day. Nothing can be finer than the beauty of the
colours, the neatness of the patterns, and the style of
work. It is difficult for the uninitiated to conceive how
well the various colours can be blended ; and there must
be some secret in Gairloch in this matter. We have
seen patterns of hose in imitation of heather,
at once
curious and pretty, and admirably adapted for the kilt,
especially when worn upon the mutrs. The trade is now
principally, if not entirely, managed by Mr. Macdougall,
of the Tartan Warehouse, Inverness, who will no doubt
ably second the benevolent lady who has done, and is
doing so much for the tenantry on that estate. Another
description of stockings and socks are sent to the
same establishment, manufactured at Tobermory,
under the inspection of a lady engaged by the Glasgow
section of the central board. The Tobermory stockings
are of plain colours, but the wool is soft and delicate,
and the workmanship so good, that they actually rival
the far-famed articles knit by the Shetlandere. In Skye
great exertions are making, as our readers know, to en•
courage the knitting trade, and the exertions of Captain
Fishbourne and the Edinburgh section of the central
board deserve to be seconded by the public. Specimens
of Skye knitting, and stockings made in Fears and other
parishes of Roes shire, under the relief operations, can
also be seen at the Tartan warehouse, the entrance to
which, by the way, has been vastly improved. While
speaking of borne manufactures—and various reasons
suggest themselv( s why preference should be given to
them—we may mention that the manufacture of plaids
for the tartan warehouse has given employment during
the winter and spring to not a few of the poor people,
half
weavers, half crofters; and that others in various
parts of the country have had congenial employment in
the fabrication of strong and curiously carved snuff-
boxes and other useful and fancy articles in wood.

DON'T TOUCH MY DOG.—The Sheriff of Aberdeen
lately gave au award of 8/. damages and expenses
against a farmer for shooting a neighbour's watch-dog.
The sheriff stated that it was illegal for any one to
shoot a watch-dog, even although it had committed a
trespass.