The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNING, MAR,CTI 00,

ever, it was apprehended, would lead to no public in-
jury, for if they should have to refer to their own works, '
the Commissioners of Woods and Forests would be em-
powered to call in temporary referees.—(Hear, hear.)
The salaries of the officers who would be appointed
under the Bill would be paid out of the Consolidated
Fund. The Noble Lord then went on to state the minor
clauses of the Bill, and concluded by moving the second
I reading of the Bill, and expressing his intention of pro-
' posing its committal to-morrow.
Lord COLBORNE said the Bill proposed by the
Noble Viscount was still open to innumerable objections,
and would not remedy the evils intended. It was but
a small improvement on the Act of last year, which was
open to every objection. That Act was oppressive, and
I those who came within its operation bitterly complained
of the expenses entailed by the official referees and other
officers appointed under the Act.
Lord CAMPBELL would not oppose the second
reading of the Bill, but he must join with his
Noble Friend in saying that the Bill passed last
year had failed altogether. He reminded their
Lordships that when it was under their considera-
tion, he asked them the delay of another session.
I lie and those who had opposed the Bill foretold the
mischief it would inflict, but in vain ; however, all their
prophecies had been more than fulfilled, and his Noble
Friend had given but a faint idea of its oppressive and
defective operation. Not only were the clauses of the
1 Noble Viscount open to objection, but all the clauses.
In short, it was beyond his power to make the old Metro-
' politan Buildings Act a goad one, and he therefore hoped
that he would remodel the Act which he introduced, and
make it an Act to supersede the old one, or to commence
de novo. That would be a better system to rely upon
until a new measure could be framed.

200 acres, which could only be had by knocking away i
nine or ten theusard houees at a large expense. It was
proposed that one station should be established in Parliv.•
meet street, another on Cornhill, two in Holborn,
and others in various parts of the metropolis.
Under these circumstances. the Committee of Selection
had thought it better that the matter should be referred
to a practical body who resided on the spot and under-
stood the question, rather than refer it to a Com-
mittee of Honourable Members, who were se- .
lecte3 from distant parts of the country, and who were
to arrive at their conclusions from such viva voce evi-
dence as 'eight be brought before them. He begged,
therefore, to move an address to her Majesty, for the ap-
pointment of a Commission, to investigate and report
upon the various railway projects of which the termini
are proposed to be established within or in the immedi-
ate vicinity of the metropolis.
Sir R. PEEL—I have no doubt that the lion. Gen-
tleman has very good reasons for the course that he
has attempted to pursue, but I feel that there is some-
thing due to the country as well as to the several
companies whose interests he is anxious to advocate. I
do not desire to state these reasons at the present mo-
ment, because there is a necessity for considering this
subject in the whole of its bearings. What the reasons are
for such a course it is not for me at present to state, nor
to say whether such a Commission should be appointed
or not. At the present juncture I have only to assert
that the interests which he is desirous of furthering have
received the best consideration of the Ministry. Per-
haps I am not stating the precise position of the ques-
tion ; but my impression is, that the whole of the rea-
sons ought to have been embodied in the report of
the Committee, for then there would have been sufficient
grounds for the consideration of the House. At the present
moment we have no statement on which we can rely,
and taking this objection, and believing that more suffi
cient reasons might have been afforded to the House,
I feel bound to say that the debate could not well be
taken to-day, even according to the statement of the
Hon. Member. I shall therefore move, Sir, that
this debate ho adjourned until Monday, when the
Ministry will be in poss. scion of the information which
is necessary to enable them to judge of which will be
the hest places as stations for railways in the metropolis.
On the question being sgain put,
Mr. FOX MAULE said, that whatever the stations
might be, and that whatever the reasons of her Ma-
jesty's Government might be for delaying their de-
cision, there was not the slightest doubt but that
the public were grievously in need of .:,he stations to
which the lion. Member had referred, and he only re-
gretted that the statement which had been submitted to
the House did not cianpreherd a definition of their precise
orfers. He agreed that a Committee of this Heine could
not answer the whole requirements of the case, and he
thought that the accommodation that was required
ought to be provided, subject, perhaps, to the confirm-
ti' n of the City authorities. There was no question but
that this was a matter which nearly concerned the
people ; but he believed that the time was come for the
settlement of the business.
• Sir G. GEEY thought that the great objection to the
appointment of this Commission was the prevailing
opinion that it would interfere with the operations of
the Board of
Mr. WILSON PATTEN said his sole object in
making the motion for the appointment of the Com-
mission was to obtain the fullest information on the

its opinion, that decision should be made as public as
p,,sbible,—(Flesr, h. sr.)
IRISH LIFE PROTECTION BILL.

Mr. SMITH O'I3RIEN wished to ask the Right Iron.
Secretary for the Howe aplrtment if Blau es r•-ferring
to taxaTion under this Bill, which had been expunged
while the Bill was pasting through the IT,,rds, would be
printed when the Bill came before that House ?

Sir J. GRAHAM, in reply, was understood to say
that they would.
MERIT IN THE ARMY.

Captain LAYARD wished to ask the Right Hon.
Secretary at War, if it was intend that meritorious sol-
diers, and officers' servants, sh _mid have extended to
them the benefits of the new warrant ?

Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT was understood to say that
he was not at present prepared to make the alteration.
POST-OFFICE RETURNS.

Mr. HAWES wished to auk the Right Hon. Gentle-
man the Secretary of the Treasury a question relative
to certain returns which he moved for a short time ago,
relating to the Post-office. Those returns had not yet
been laid upon the table of the House, and he wished to
ask the Right lion. Gentleman when they might be ex
p.:Tied? Since he had moved for these returns he had
seen a statement, copied from the French prints, which
it would appear contained some of the points of infor-
mation which to required. The statement was, how-
ever, erroneous, and he wished to have it corrected as
soon as possible by the production of the papers.
Mr. CARDWELL said that the lion. Member had
been good enough to give him notice of his question.
and he had made inqoiry into this matter; and he could
assure the Hon. Member that the returns were in the
course of preparation, and they would be laid upon t..e
table of the House the moment they were completed.

The Duk of BUCCLEUCH said, that with regard to
the measure of 1844, it wa, a considerable time before
the second reading was moved. It was a very long and
very heavy Bill, and no person seemed to wish to take
the trouble of it.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to
the particular measure of official referees, he found that
in several cases one had given one reason, and another
had given another, but as it was quite impossible to hope
for any measure, with regard to the buildings of this
metropolis, which. was not open to objection, be be-
lieved that the amendment introduced by his Noble
Friend was well worthy of consideration.
Lord ASHBURTON was quite ready to meet the
difficulties of this question, and among the first of the
objects which this board had to consider was the subject
of smoke. He knew that in the large towns in the north,
for the expenditure of a few pounds, the great manufac-
turers had been enabled to obviate this serious evil,
whereas it was well known that it was only by a mere
accident that the inhabitants of the metropolis ever suc-
ceeded in seeing the sun. Now, this was a difficulty,
and a mischief that might very easily be obviated, and
he trusted the mischief would be attended to.

-Lord CAMPBELL was ready to bear his testimony
to what had fallen from the Noble Lord. When he had
the honour of filling the office of Attorney-General, he
had found it necessary to grant patents for the con-
sumption of smoke. It was well known that the parti-
cles of smoke were merely inconsumed particles of fuel,
and he should be ready to accede to my motion which
stopped such an evil.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE was glad to accede to any
proposition which would remedy such an evil.
The Bill was then read a second time, aad the report
was ordered to be brought up to-morrow ; the House
then adjourned.

subject.
Sir R. H. INGLIS called the attention of the Chair-
man of the Committee (Mr. Greene) or her Majesty's
Government to a point in connexion with the matter
under discussion. So far as he understood the subject
of a central station for the metropolis, there were two or
three schemes not abandoned, that terminated in
the City, but did not extend to the river. It strut•k
him that as the river was the greatest highway in the
world, that half the benefit of any terminus would be
lost unless the railway station came close to the river
side. He was aware of one plan that proposed,to have a
station opposite Hungerford-brids e. Now what he wished
to call the attention of the House and the promoters of
this scheme to was, whether it was not possible,
without great engineering difficulties, to carry the
plan further up the bank of the river, so as to give more
general accommodation.
Mr. LABOUCHERE considered that the Govern-
ment should have attended to this matter before now.
They ought to have laid their plans, if they had any, at
the commencement of the session. This was the
proper course, and would have avoided much difficulty.
Whatever delay took place would only cause specula-
tors in land to raise prices, so that the promoters of
railway companies would be placed under great disadvar-
tatees. He was. however, not surprised at the Government
not taking the matter up with so much avidity as he should
have liked them to have done after what had befallen the
reports of the Boar tof Trade last year. Whatever
might be the difficulty of the case, he hoped the ques-
tion would be taken up at the earliest possible period,
and some arrangement come to. He hoped the Govern-
ment had givesa it their serious consideration, and that
they were prepared now with some plan. His
mind was c ntirely made up on the question, and he
considered that it would be much better investigated by
a Commission than it would be by a Select Com-
mittee of the House. He thought, however, that the at-
tention of the Government ought to have been called to
it earlier in the session, for if that had been
done a great deal of time would have been saved,
and other advantages would have been gained, which,
in all orohahility, could not now be made available.
Sir R. PEEL said that his mind was also made up on
the subject. Her M tiesty's Government had had it
under attentive consideration only during the last few
days. As no reasons had been given in the report for
the rec mmendation it conveyed, he considered that it
wou!d be rather a dangerous precedent to establish to
acquiesce in it at once without further consideration.
He thought, Therefore, the best course would be to
leave the matter at rest for the present, and he would
announce what course the Government intended to
pursue with reference to it on Monday next.
After a few words from Mr. W. PATTEN, which
were inaudible, •
Mr. HUNIE said, that before the question was brought
to a close, he wished to sly a few words relative to the
observations made by the Right Honourable Gentleman,
which seemed to reflect on the Board of Trade. He paid
considerable attention to the proceedings of that Board,
and he did not think that they were deserving of any cen-
sure for the manner in which they had discharged their
duties. He bad, in consequence of the discussions on its
proceedings which had taken place in that House, made
the most careful inquiries into its manegement
and he had every reason to believe that the Noble
Lord at the head of that Board (with whom
he had never spoken more than five minutes in his life),
and Mr. Porter, with the other gentlemen of whom it
was composei, had discharged their duties in the most
indefatigable and independent manner. He did consid r
that these reflectiens cast upon public men were very
discouraging to them in the performance of their duty.
Mr. LABOUCHERE begged that he might not be
misunderstood, for he by no means meant to cast the
slightest personal reflection upon any of the member•
composing that board, but he did assert what he had
many times previously said, that it was not con-
stituted in such a manner as to carry the weight with
the House which it ought. He would again disclaim
any intention of casting a reflection upon any member of
the board.
Sir G. CLER' said that he must bear witness to the
indefatigable zeal and fidelity of the Right Honourable
Gentlemen who were members of that board.
The Governmcut could not have interfered after
the jealousy which had been expressed by
the House against any inteference upon their part.
The debate was then adjourned till Monday next.
NIGHTLY ASYLUMS.
Mr. HUME presented a petition, signed by 1,000 of
the ratepayers of Chelsea, against the establishment of
nightly asylums for the poor.
Lord EBRINGTON gave notice that he would, on
Tuesday next, move for papers relative to the Honiton
Union, where the pauper labourers were sent to labour
in the fields.
Mr. P. SCROPE gave notice that he would, on Tues-
day next, move for the introduction of a Bill a hich
would give better relief to the poor of Ireland.
LOSS OF THE GREAT LIVERPOOL.
Sir G. GREY wished to ask the R ght Hon. the
Secretary to the Admiralty whether there had been any
inquiry as to the loss of the Great Liverpool steam-ship ?
He wished to know if there ought not to be an inquiry
similar to that of a court-martial, which was generally
instituted when any of her Majesty'e vessels were lost?
Mr. COItRY said the Admiralty had no right to
make such an invest:gation as that which had been
suggested. Their duty was simply confined to
the receipt and delivery of the mails, and to
s• e that the terms of the contract were faithfully
adhi red to. In this case, the whole of the responsibility
rested with th officers of the Company, and the Admi-
ralty, although they had been applied to by the Company
to do so, had considered that it would be an ob-
jectionable precedent to appoint a naval offieer
to act in a court of inquiry upon the acts of any officer
not in the service of the country. The directors of
the steam-pa •ket company had, however, insti-
tuted an inquiry, and they had reqttested that
the Admiralty agent, who was on board the vessel
at the time of her loss should be present at that inquiry,
and the Admiralty agent had;been requested to attend
accordingly.
Mr. P. M. STEWART, as Chairman of the Penin-
sular and Oriental Steam Packet Company, wished
to make a few observations. He was glad that this
subject had been brought before the House. The
company were most anxious that every inquiry should
Ito made into every act of theirs. Tile Company
never allowed any act of negligence, or any mis
conduct in any of their servants, to go without the
strictest investigation. The consequence of this was,
that after carrying thousands of persons thousands of
miles, this was the first serious accident that had occurred
in the company's service. Many months ago when,
certain carelessness was observed, the necessary
attendant of a long course of uninterrupted success, they
dictated a letter to be addressed to all their officers
to remind them that in steam-vessels the compass
was very liable to be. untruthful, and in such
instances the officers were required instantly to com-
municate with the superintendent at Southampton.
They were also enjoined, in approaching land under any
circumstances, and especially in dark or foggy weather,
to use the utmost vigilance, and under such circumstances
never to dispense with the use of the lead. That letter was
issued, and was not a dead letter by any means whatever.
Captain M'Leed, of the Great Liverpool, who had re-
commended himself by his ability and politeness, was
expected home in a few days, when a committee of
three gentlemen would be appointed to investi-
gate the matter.—(Hear.) The Board of Admi-
ralty had been applied to with a view to their
nominating a gentleman to act on the committee, but
he declined ; but he hoped their application to the Tri-
nity House would prove more successful. He might say,
in conclusion, that when the tribunal, before Inch the
matter wo Id be iavestipted, should have pronouneta

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 19.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
SECOND READING.

The following Bill was read a second time, and or-
dered to be printed, viz.—London, Salisbury, and Yeovil
Junction Railway (Basingstoke to Yeovil).
Lord EBRINGTON moved that the Plymouth Great
Western Docks Bill, which stood on the paper for to-
day, be read a second time on this day fortnight, as the
Compawy had some arrangements to make which were
not yet completed.
DELAYS AT THE BOARD OF TRADE.

Mr. GREENE said he was extremely happy to see
his Right Hon. Friend the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade (Sir G. Clerk) in his place, because he wished to
call his attention to the great delay which took place,
not only at the Board of Trade, but in all the other de-
partments of the Government, in inserting clauses which
came within their province in the railway Bills now
before Parliament.. Thus considerable unnecessary ex-
pense was entailed on the promoters of these Bills, and
much valuable time wasted.—(Hear.)

Sir GEORGE CLERIC said there was no want of
diligence in inserting the clauses referred to, and that it
was perfectly impossible to proceed faster with the great
number of Bills, in which clauses had to be inserted,
unless the public interests were neglected. After the
complaint of his Hon. Friend, he should take care that
no delay took place except such as was necessary.
The subject then dropped.
OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE RAILWAY.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition in favour
of this Bill.

LONDON AND OXFORD RAILWAY.
Captain OSBORNE presented a petition in favour
of the above named Bill.

CHICHESTER AND BOGNOR RAILWAY.

• Mr. ESTCOURT moved that the standing order
No. 110 be suspended, so far as regards the Chichester
and Bognor Railway Bill, and that the Bill be read a
second time. He moved that the standing order be
suspended principally. on the ground of the great saving
of money to the parties concerned.
The motion was then agreed to. The Bill was read a
second time and ordered to be committed.
RAILWAYS.—ADMIRALTY PLANS.

Mr. HUME then moved, "that in case of Bills for
making, maintaining, varying, extending, or enlarging
any aqueduct, archway, bridge, weir, canal, cut, dock,
ferry, harbour, navigation, pier, port, railway, reservoir,
tunnel, turnpike-road, and water-work, and for all other
works and inclosures on tidal lands within the ordinary
spring tides, a general plan showing the situation
and approaches to the said aqueduct, archway,
harbour, &c. should be denoted upon a sheet or sheets
of the ordance survey, when published, or else upon
maps of an equivalent scale, and extending ten miles on
each side; together with enlarged plans and sections of
such parts of the works as are on the tidal lands within
the ordinary spring tides, on a scale of not less than
twenty feet to an inch, with the dimensions
figured thereon, shall, on or before the 30th day
of November, be deposited iu the Board of Admiralty;
and that the same resolution be made a standing order."
He was not aware of anything further he bad ssy, ex-
cept to express his opinion that this motion would be the
means of enabling the Admiralty to perform with
greater facility the important duties assigned to them,
and on those grounds he begged leave to move the reso-
lution in the words he had given.

Captain BERKELEY said he was ♦ery glad that the
Hon. Member had brought this subject before the
House, because he had a very strong case in point. He
would have to call the attention of the House, on Mon-
day next, to the second reading of the Bill for building a
bridge over the river Dee, by the Great Western Com-
pany. That Bill was thrown out last year, in con se•
quence of the Admiralty refusing to permit any bridge
to be erected, as it would interfere with the naviga
Lion. The Great Western Company now came forward
again to endeavour to obtain a Bill to make a bridge
very little differing from the former one proposed ; and
they now put the House to the expense and trouble of a
Committee, although they were aware that their project
had been formerly rejected. He should certainly object
to the second reading of the Bill on Monday next, as it
would put the parties to an enormous and unnecessary
expense.
Lord R. GROSVENOR, after a few observations that
did not reach the gallery, said that in eonsequence of
four railways being proposed which would cross the river
Dee, the Town Council, who are the conservators of the
river, had been put to great expense and anxiety.
They were not aware to which railway the Admiralty
would object ; and until they knew what course the
Admiralty would pursue on the subject, they could not
tell how to act. The evidence taken before the Tidal
Commissioners, in the course of August last, gave
the inhabitants of Chester reason to believe that
the Admiralty would not consent to the slightest inter
ference with the navigation of that river. Since that
time it had been decided by an engineer being sent
down to examine and report on the nature of the bridges
by which these railways proposed to cross the river, and,
the question be had to ask of the Right Hon. Baronet,
and one which he wished be would answer was, whether
the Admiralty, as guardians of the river, would permit
any interference whatever with the navigation of the
river ?

Mr. ORMSBY GORE said, that in corroboration of
the statement just made, he begged to say that the Dee
Commissioners had been about to deepen the river and
improve its navigation; but that project was put a stop
to by the speculators of these railways. He sincerely
hoped that what had been brought forward by the Hon.
Member for Montrose would have the effect of stopping
this evil.

Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said he was ♦ery glad
this motion had been made, as it would relieve the
Admiralty from a great deal of trouble, and they would
know what course they had to pursue with regard to this

project.
After a few words from Admiral DUNDAS, and Sir G.
COCKBURN,
Mr. JERVIS said it would give great satisfaction to
his constituents to find that the Admiralty were deter-
mined to keep up the navigation of the river.
Captain PECHELL hoped the motion would have the
effect of drawing the attention of the Admiralty to the
construction of bridges across rivers, and he was sure
they would be actuated by the strictest impartiality.
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. HUME then moved that the resolution be a
standing order of the House.—Agreed to.
Mr. HUME also moved that the promoters of Bills
introduced this session be required to deposit plans
with the Admiralty, as provided in the resolution just
agreed to.
Sir R. INGLIS took that opportunity of expressing a
hope that a clause would be introduced into the standing
orders, providing that when the 30th of November fell
on a Sunday the deposit of plans should be made on the
Monday following.
Sir G. CLERK said that a wrong construction had
been put upon the standing orders by the officers of the
Board of Trade. It was clear that no deposit should be
made on a Sunday. The standing order with respect to
the deposit of plans was the same in effect as that relat-
ing to the service of notices.
_ METROPOLITAN RAILWAYS STATION.

Mr. PA.TTEN, in rising to move for the appointment
of a Commission to investigate and report on the
various railway projects,
the termini of which were
proposed to be in the metropolis, said he held in his
hand a map of the metropolis, which showed the
various stations proposed to be established in
the capital ; and he thought he could not do better
than call the attention of the Rouse to it. It had been
ebtimated that the ground required fur them would be