The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-10 00:00:00

.01411
and what were those which it wished to modify. The
general subject involved much debateable matter ; but a
great deal of that had been cleared away by previous
discussions. The amount of force employed in the navy for
the present year had, for instance, been decided by a vote
of the House, and which was of course the rule of the Ad-
miralty,- and the Hon. Member for Montrose even would
admit that it was of no utility, now that that point had
been so decided, to go over the same ground again on, 5e
present occasion. Under the votes 1,2, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15,
16, and 18 of the estimates, there was a saving of 200,000/.
The reduction on vote 1, was in the wages of seamen and ma-
rines ; that in No. 2, was in provisions for the navy ; that in
No. 3, was in the Admiralty-office ; that under No. 8, was in
the wages of men and artificers employed in dockyards; that
in No. 10, was on navy contracts for stores ; that in No. 11,
was in new works, improvements, and repairs; that in No.
13, was en the miscellaneous items ; and that on Nos. 14, 15,
and 16,•was on the half-pay and retired allowance of officers'
pensions and allowances; that on No. 18, was freight on ac-
count of the Home Department- The total amount of reduc-
tion proposed to be made for the year was 208,0001., which
left the estimates in this position. The increase of the pre-
sent year over the last was 214,6441. on the gross votes.
The aunt proposed to be reduced—namely, 208,0004 de-
ducted from this, brought down the increase of the esti-
mates this year over the last to 6,644/. If the net votes were
taken, however, it would be found that there was a reduc-
tion of 43,0001. on the estimates of 1848-49, as compared
with those of 1847-48. Circumstances, he (Mr. W )
admitted, had changed since these estimates were framed.
Parliament had in that time considered the whole subject ;
and it was satisfied with the progress that had been made in
providing fur the naval defences of the country since 1843.
It was the duty of the naval department of the public ser-
vice to combine economy with efficiency; and that duty
he was; he hoped, in a position to prove had been per-
formed by the Admiralty. The Committee, at page 9of
their report, admitted that economy was not dependent
on the number of men, and there still remained room
for the application of well-considered retrenchments.
The first recommendation of the Committee was the re-
vision ,of the force employed on the foreign and home
stations. The number of men on the foreign stations was
about 7,000, on the :home station about 5,000; but it was
impossible to state accurately the number, in consequence of
the varying circumstances. Indeed, as the Committee
stated, " the expenditure for the effective services of the
army, navy, and ordnance, must in a great measure depend
tpon the amount of force which the advisers of the Crown
nay consider necessary. A satisfactory decision upon this
übject could only be formed after a careful and deliberate
arvey of the position of the country in regard to its inter-
alresources, its external interests, the state of its foreign
elations, its political obligations, and the maintenance and
fulfilment of all the various rights and duties which belong
to the extensive and long-established dominion of the Bri-
tish empire."- The Admiralty concurred in that opinion.
They admitted upon the whole the statement of the Com-
mittee in page 13, though they did not admit all the facts
on which, it was founded, when the report alleged " that
whatever cause might have led to the increase of force
upon any particular station, when once the force had
been augmented, there was too frequently some unfortu-
nate hindrance to its subsequent reduction ;" and that
" when the enemy was defeated and hostilities were at
an end, other duties were found for the ships em-
ployed, and the force which was required for the contin-
gency of a war remained as the permanent establishment in
time of peace." There is no doubt that duties for ships
of war grew in presence of the means for perform-
ing them. Every diplomatic agent asked for a ship of
war iu case of any disturbance when ships were in his
neighbourhood, and it was exceedingly difficult to break
through the custom that had obtained of granting the assist-
ance in such cases required. The principal foreign naval
stations were the Pacific, the Indian Seas, and the Cape of
Good Hope. On all these stations, however, the amount of
the naval foree of the country had been considerably dimi-
nished this year. For instance, in the East Indies and China,
where 'there were in 1843 no less than 36 ships of war, there
were now only 25. The number of ships on this station
was in

1844 ... 26 ships.
1845
1846 ... 25
1847 ... 28
Of these now afloat in those waters, none were ordered home.
In the Pacific, there were in
1845 •••
1846
1847 •••
1848 •••
There were at this moment only seven, and two surveying
vessels, in that quarter. At the (Jape of Good Hope the num-
bers were—

1847 ships.
1848
The Rosamond and Devastation were ordered home. The
Admiralty, however, saw no objection to the proposal of the
Committee for a general and complete revisal of the naval
stations abroad, before the vote for the next year was taken
on the estimates; and they were perfectly willing to inquire
how far it was possible to make any reduction safely and
honourably, as regarded the serviee of the country, not alnne
in the number, but in the size of the ships on these stations.
He ( Mr. W.) would next come to votes No. 1 and 2, lato
which the Committee had entered at the greatest length.
The first recommendation of the Committee in respect of vote
2 was, that the two bases of that vote should be restored. He
(Mr. W.) had explained, in moving the votes for 1846-7, in
what way these bases came to be changed, and how the aver-
age struck on the bases, which had been sufficient for the four
or five years preceding, was insufficient for that year, in con-
sequence of the increased application of steam to naval pur-
poses. He agreed, however, with the Committee, that it was
now desirable to restore these two bases, and to act on the plan
laid down by Sir James Graham when he held office in the
Admiralty—namely, to take the number of ships in commis-
sion and their complement of men, and apply that number to
the estimates for the ensuing period. This year there would
be a difference of 60,0001. on these bases. The Committee
stated the difficulty of arriving at any result on this vote,
since the money voted this year went in part to the pay-
ment of men who had entered three or four years since; and
throughout the report they dwelt on that excess—in vote 1
especially, where they point to irregularity from that cause
in the navy estimates. But it was very difficult to get rid of
that irregularity; because ships were constantly put in com-
mission for particular purposes, while others were as con-
stantly discharged as circumstances arose to demand it; and
it was a thing quite certain that when once an excess was
created, it required the labour of years to reduce the amount
of the vote. When the present Government entered on
office, in July, 1846, he ( Mr. ‘i.) found a number of vessels
that had been recently commissioned with 2,531 men on
board, the full complement being 3,269. That was an ex-
cess bequeathed to them by their predecessors. Instead of
reducing that excess, however, it became necessary, in con-
sequence of the circumstances of the times, to commission
other vessels—the famine in Ireland, for instance, caused the
commissioning of several vessels specially employed in that
service, having on board 738 men, from the 13th of July,
1846, to the 31st March, 1847—making, is March, 1817,
4,007 men in excess. In 1847-8 the number of men paid off
was nearly double that of an ordinary period—namely,
15,539 ; the average of the three years preceding being 8,739.
And in the present year, from the let of April to the fat of
July, 4,738 were discharged, instead of 2,071, the number
reduced in the corresponding quarter of the year preceding.
Yet still there was an excess of 4,146 men. In June, how-
ever, that number had been reduced to 3,900, in July to
2,812, and on the 7th of August the excess was 2,477. There
were several ships on their way home as out of commission,
however, and the men belonging to these—about 2,369 in
number—would reduce the excess by the latter end of Oc-
tober, or the beginning of November, to 488 men. Every
endeavour, however, should, he admitted, be made by the
Government to keep the number of men strictly within the
Parliamentary vote, and he therefore looked upon the
alteration proposed by the Committee as legitimate and
proper—viz., that the excess of men borne on the books of
the navy over that voted should be reported monthly to
Parliament, with the estimates presented by the Board of
Admiralty. It would be, in his opinion, a salutary check
upon the previous practice that obtained in that particular
The Committee observed that net only was vote No. 1
affected by this irregularity, but that vote No. 2 was also
equally affected in the same degree; and therefore the re-
port proposed the same.remedy. On the supplementary
grant of 30,0001. in vote No. 1, for the purpose of amelio-
rating the condition of petty officers and able seamen,
the report expressed no opinion. The Committee pointed it
out to the House, and that was all. But the House would
remember how that vote had arisen, and what were the de-
bates that bad taken place upon the subject; and also the
great desire there was on the part of all Hon. Members that
some plan should be devised which would have the effect
of keeping these gallant fellows is the service of their own
country, and preventing them from going elsewhere.
The Admiralty had endeavoured to effect that ob-
ject through this vote; and their plan was to assimi-
late the system of rewards in the navy to the good-service
warrant in the army. He (Mr. Ward) therefore implored
the House, for the sake of the public service, not to withhold
its consent to this grant. He quite agreed with the Com-
mittee that no extra clerks should be permitted without the
sanction of the Treasury, and that the principle of extra pay,
which was even of a more demoralising tendency, should be
regulated in the same way. The Admiralty proposed to
adopt* the recommendation of the Committee, that the
whole of these establishments be revised in conjunction with
the Treasury. He did not now attempt to say what the
strength was to be ; he only intended to announce that the
departments would be revised by the Admiralty in con-
junction with the Treasury; and that except under an order
in Council neither extra clerks nor extra pay were to be
allowed, unless with the sanction of the Treasury, on a
written statement from that department which applied
for these additions. Another item of increase was the
salary of the second secretary, Captain Hamilton. After
a full investigation of this subject, and a clear under-
standing that the salary three years ago was fixed
under a misappreheasion, the Admiralty had stated the
circumstances of the case in a letter to the Treasury, and
the Treasury at once sanctioned an addition of 500/. a year to
the salary. He would say, in justice to Captain Hamilton,
that Captain Hamilton would not take advantage of this
grant from the Treasury until it had received the sanction
of the House. He conceived the House would feel they had
only done their duty in thus doing justice to a deserving
public servant. He came next to the vote No. 5, which re-
ferred to the scientific branch of the public service. There
would be found an increase in the permanent and the tem-
porary service votes. The temporary service increase arose
in consequence of the position of the Arctic expedition. When
the House recollected the number of gallant men who had
been out on this expedition, which had not been heard of
forh an long a period, and who were not provisioned for more
thasnur years, he was sure no objection would be raised to
i
vote. Re felt certain the House would unanimously be
ofopinlon that they had only consulted the interests of science,
humanity,and justice, in making ample provision, through
the aid of the country, for the relief of those whose fate was
uncertain. Up to the present time the Admiralty had not
heard any tidings of the expedition, but he trusted at what-
ever part of the coast Sir John Franklin might make his ap-
pearance, he woald there find that a provision had been made
for his relief. Then as to the permanent provision, the
amount expended in surveys had been 68,000/. for the years
1837 and 1838, and 123,0 Kt or the years 1846 and 1847.
There would be a considerable, en etion, however, this year.
The Admiralty conceived that the
of 70,0004 for the
purpose would be ample, and if the House prescribed that
limit for future years, it was conceivedffithesiei
that the service would
tft as ever. The
be as well performed and made
as efficient
bmakile should be
the Ad-
ng
Committee suggested that some mode e
the
sa
mit-shy charts snore accessible to the public
adopted. This matter was underconsideration of the
Admiralty. Then with reference to the vote for the railway
and harbour department, which was attached to the Board
of Admiralty, as the Committee suggested a mode of deal-
ing with this matter, he would not enter upon it at, that
time. He might, however, remark, that it certainly '
'essive on the public that three inquiries of
ter should be pursued by three different de-
) Admiralty had, however, communicated
'resident of the Board of Trade, and ar-
id no doubt be made with the two other
ascertain if the three inquiries could not
ly blended ; and when this was effected
ensuing years would be different from
. He came now to two not unimportant
and 8, which . comprehended the eidiriee

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