The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-28 00:00:00

GLASGOW AND WEST Or SCOTLAND

DISTRICT.

The Committee sat at twelve o'clock, in the Court of Common
Pleas. Mr. V. Smith chairman.

GLASGOW, ILIL ARNOC3Z, AND
lIISDROS SAN.

Mr. Neil Robson, C.E., cross-examined by Mr. TALBOT, Q.C.—
The steepest gradient was 1 in 75, the sharpest curve six furlongs.
He had had nothing to do with the Glasgow and Belfast Union,
although his name was in the prospeCtes. He proposed to have an
assistant power on the gradient of 1 in 75 when the weight of train
required it. The Glasgow and Ayr line had more favourable gra-
dients and curves. The witness was then examined as to the com-
parative lengths of the Glasgow aed Ayr, and the Glasgow, Kil-
marnock, and Ardrossan Railways from different points of the dis-
trict. The result was in favour of the line under consideration.
Mr. Errington, civil engineer, thought the line to Kilmaresick
judiciously laid out. The gradient of lin 75 was not now an objec-
tienable one. He considered that it would be a public advantage if
some portion of the traffic on the Glasgow and Ayr lines were re-
moved, as they at present inadequately accommodated the public.
Cross-examined by Mr. TALBOT—If a gradient of lin 75 could be
avoided it would be advisable to do so.
Mr. T. T. Mitchell proved that minerals were taken on much
steeper gradients than on this lino! or the. Slamanaan Railway, at
the rate of from 15 to 20 miles an hour.
Mr. Ferguson corroborated the evidence of Mr. Williamson as to
the value of the minerals in the districts.
Mr. TALBOT then addressed the Committee against the project.
He contended that no necessity had been shown for the construction
of thisline. It had been proved to the satisfaction, he trusted, of the
Committee, that they had done full justice to the public since the
period when they had received their powers from Parliament. They
had done more than was required- from them, for they encouraged
and constructed branches as much with the view of accommodating
the country as of protecting themselves. They presented a most
favourable parallel to the London and Birmingham and other rail-
ways, inasmuch as they gave the same advantages to the
poor as to toe rich, running third-class. trains at the same
speed as the first and second classes. They were willing still further
to construct branches where a necessity could be shown for such ;
and, in fact, the Committee would find that they had had a Bill be-
fore Parliament to accommodate this vemcountry, but unfortunately
the non-fulfilment of some technicality hdd thrown it out before the
Standing Orders' Committee. But were they to pass this scheme be •
cause it was the only one before them, when they were told that a better
lino would be brought forward in the next session. He trusted the
Committee would defer any decision until they had these lines toge-
ther. The Learned Counsel then adverted to what were, he con-
tended, radical errors in the schemes. This schema was to be leased
to the Greenock Company, and it was in contemplation to amalga-
mate the Company with the Caledonian. He hoped the Committee
would hesitate before they by any sanction of theirs encouraged a
system which could not be otherwise than injurious to the interests
of the public. s,
The Committee then decided that the preamble of the Bill,
TIE GLASGOW, PAISLEY, IEILZYIA.I3,I7OCIE,
AND AVM (No. 3—W3E711 DEA.NCITE3 TO
LAMPXTS AND IZESIVIAHAGOW),
was proved, as also

THE GLIISGOW, XXLINZARNOCIE, AND
ARDROSSIIN.

The Committee Intimated that when the clauses of the latter Bill
came to be considered the one which referred to the purchase of the
harbour would require to be amended. The clauses of the first-
named Bill were then agreed to, and the Committee adjourned.

GROUP XIV.
NORTH 7LENT.

The Committee met at twelve o'clock.
Mr. BACON, who appeared in support ofa petition presented stains
the proposed line by Mr. Hyde, a :landowner residing at„Feversham,
called
Mr. Wilkes, who "proved the damage that would be done to Mr.
Hyde's property. The line would cut off communication from the
game preserves, and would also be seen from the house.
By Sir W. RIDDEL—Brows the course of the South-Eastern line.
That would also affect Mr. Hyde's property, and could be seen from
the house.

The Learned Counsel having briefly addressed the Committee,
Mr. SELWYN proceeded to make some observations in support of a
petition presented against the line by Mr. Morhy. He stated that
the uetitioner possessed about twelve acres of land at Hatcham. He
had invested the whole savings of an industrious life in the purchase
of this land, in the hope that by its gradual improvement it would be
a provision for himself in his declining years, and also for his large
faintly, nearly all of whom, from imbecility of mind, were unable to
support themselves. The line would so affect that land, and also all the
land in the ricleity,-that it would be a matter of impossibility to let it.
Mr. Sergeant WRANGIIAM, on the part of the promoters, said that
the present case came upon them rather unexpectedly ; but he was
quite ready to agree that the land should be surveyed by any re-
respectable party, and that without a mere reference to the value of
the land, but having regard to the whole of it as a good property,
the company should pay• its full value. • •
Some discussion then ensued as to whether the whole question
'should be lefeto-the consideration of an arbitrator, Mr. Selwyn de-
cidod ou proceeding with the case, and called ,
Mr. Drew, a solicitor, who stated that he was well acquainted
with Mr. Morby's p -erty. Advised Mr. Morby to purchase It, as
he considered it a most eligible investment. The land is building
land. Mr. Minty has had a very large offer for half of the land, but
has refused it. The passage of the line on an embankment through
the property would be destruction to it.
By Mr. Sent. WRANGIUM—The property has not at present any
frontage on the road, but a road will be formed by it. His client
gave 2,4001. for the land. At the time he purchased it he was the
holder et a very baneffcial lease, which would have cost the land-
lord 7001. or 8001. to have got up. The proposed embankment would
reduce the property to one-third of its present value. The effect
of the Greenwich sRailway at Bermondsey has been to depreciate
the value of the property at the end of Bermondsey-street to ene-
ball.

Re-examined Under any etrcutiostances the line would be an
Injury to the property. • •
. .Mr. Porter, an architect and surveyor—The land belonging to Mr.
Morby is good building land. It is surrounded with roads, and wit-
ness knows that ,buildings are rafddly increasing in the neighbour-
hood. The rail Way• would entirely unfit the land for the purpose for
which it is intended—viz., for building villas.
.• .

Mr. Irwin, a surveyor, stated that be is engaged in connexion with
the estates adjoining Mr. Morby's land. It is very desirable build-
ing ground. A railway passing through the laud would destroy its
value.

By Mr. Sergeant WRANGITAII—There would be a loss to the pro-
prietor, but that less might be estimated and compensated in money.
In the absence of Mr. Austin, he preceecled to address the Com-
mittee in support of a petition against the proposed line by
Messrs, Hall, the proprietors of the gunpowder-mills in Favers-
ham. He called

Mr. Colter, an assistant to a surveyor in Canterbury, who proved the
accuracy of the plan of the mills, and the course of the intended
line.

Mr. William Hart, a superintendent and manager of the business
of Messrs. Hall—The mills originally belonged to Government, but
Were purchased in 1823 by Messrs. Hall. The mills existed in. the
time of Queen Elizabeth. The business is very large, and the
average sale is about 500 barrels of powder per week. Is in the
11:.bit of contracting with Government. Within the last fortnight
Messrs. Hall have contracted to supply 2,340 barrels of powder.
By Mr. Sergeant Wit ANGIIAM—Cannot explain the process as carried
on in the different mills.

Mr. Wm. Monks, foreman to Messrs. Hall, stated that he had been
employed 24 hours. The materials for the powder are prepared in
the saltpetre refinery, and are then taken to the other mills. There
are six pairs of runners, or millstones at the Osprich Mills, and in the
other mills the number varies .from two to ten pair. Af-
ter the t runner is turned round once or twice on the
materials, they are called " mill cake," and is stronger
than when It is in a manufactured , state. A two ounce
charge of "mill cake" will send a 68-pound ball 20 feet farther than
a 2 oz charge of the manufactured powder.. The contents of a barrel
is 100Ibs., and there are "charge houses" In all the mills. The charge
house of the Osprich Mills contains from 30 to 40 barrels of powder.
The mills are 185 yards from the line. - The mills are built of slight
materials, tomitigate.as much as possible the effect of any explosion.
but the charge houses -are built of very thick masonry, and
In ease of an explosion; it would be very violent. Great precautions
are taken to avoid accidents. The men enter the mill with list shoes.
The, powder is very volatile, and the.roofs of the mills are covered
With powder dust,.as also the trees round it. - A force pump is kept
at each mill to irash'of that powder: The contents of the magazines
are removed by water.. The "Ore Creek" comes close up to the mill.
Ity Mr. Sergeant Witallouim —The powder, when in the state
called the " green charge," Is as explosive as the manufactured
powder. The magazines are built much stronge- than the mills, in
order to keep the powder safe. There Is a 9:.eam-engine at work
near the Osprich Mills. It II about 15 yards distant, with its boiler,
chimney, and furnace. Mr. Hall resides in a cottage about 60
yards front the mills. There is also a gas factory within CO
yards of the mills. There is a steam-engine on the
premises called the Bennett Mills, which contain from 50
to 70 barrels of powder in the charge house. One of the charge
houses abuts on the public road, but the walls of it are built very
thick near the road, and very thin on the inside, so 'as to direct the
explosion away from the public. Explosions have taken place in
nearly every mill, bat no explosion has extended its influence to the
distance of 109 yards. At a distance of 50 yards windows have been
broken, but that is the extreme distance at which he has known
damage to be done. The end 9f the mill facing the magazine or
Charge house is made strong, and no explosion has hitherto reached
the powder contained in it. About 40 lbs. of powder are placed
under the runners at a time.
Captain Tulloch, of the Royal Artillery, stated that he is super-
intendent of the Government powder mills at Waltham Abbey. The
green charge is very explosive, but the mill cake is much more so.
In 1843 au explosion occurred,which destroyed a counting-house 216
yards distant from the ignited powder.
31r. AUSTIN was proceeding to cross-examine this witness, when
The announcement was made that the Speaker was at prayers, and
Committee adjourned until twelve o'clock on Monday.

GROUP XTI.
ZPSOM BRANCIL

The Committee, including every member as usual, Sir C. Douglas,
chairman, Lord Pollingtos, Mr. Lockhart, the Hon. 0. Duncembo,
and Mr. Blewitt, assembled at twelve o'clock to-day, when
Mr. Stovin, manager of the traffic en the South-Western line was
eal!ed to show the traffic, and stated that the returns expected to
be derived would be 8,314e1., which, less 40 per cent. for working ex-
penses, would leave a roust estimate of profit of 5,0001. a-year on the
branch.

On the cross-examination by Mr. ALEXANDZZ, nothing was
elicited to shake the testimony of this witness in this point.
On re-examination by Mr. HILDYARD, Mr. Stovin could not affirm
that the number of passengers between Croydon and Epsom was
572,663, but it was a large figure, and certainly more than he con-
sidered to be the passenger traffic between the latter place and
London.

John Blewltt, a witness, replied that the charge of ”id. per mile
was a high one, but Mr. Illidyard, Q.C., showed that the charge was
of course in the power of the Company.
Mr. Locke, the engineer, stated, on the examination of Mr. Mu.,
Q. C., that the line began at the 7th milestone of the South-W;stern
main line, went through Malden and Ewell, and thence to Epsom. At
these places and at both the termini there would.be stations ; but the
Company would be quite ready to put stations wherever they were
required by the wishes or convenience of the inhabitants. The Epsom
station would be 12 miles from Vauxhall and 14U from Waterloo,
bridge. The Company had a Bill before Parliament for an extension
to London-bridge, which would make the distance to that station
something more than 15 miles. Be was not a farmer, hut he was led
to believe that this railway, which passed through au agricultufal
district, would be certainly instrumental in improving the
quality of the land. The direction of the railway would
be extremely useful to the public, who could not be
served by: the South-Western Railway, and as the Company
intended to have a station at Battersea, there would be a great con-
venience to those who resided about the terminus of the Great
Western line. As it was intended to have another station for the
west, there would be the accommodation previously alluded to with
the Birmingham district. In his belief the advantages offered by this
branch to the carriage of live stock and minerals, were far superior
in the facilities of the termini. Other advantages were also offered
in the easiness of the gradients, the shortness of the line, and the
rapidity of the transit.—[Mr. Locke here put in a comparative sec-
tion of both lines.] The estimate for the works was 90,0001.,
which included a surplusage for contingencies of 11,3001. That
was for a double lino of rail. The smallest radius was thirty-six
chains, one being at each end of the line, the rent being nearly
stitertll respectlat to minerals,Then,erks might be completed within twelve months, and
would pled,rgeusliinisgpervoe.sfies.sional reputation on keeping his promise.
w 0
he was convinced that, generally speaking,
tabssetyircedouldartnot be conveyed by the atmospheric appliance, and he felt
atmospheric apparatus neveerne.deitlivcooumrpteotegwetitahtlotchoemtonitht.be,s,thhait the
pression being that the interest
theest expenseol the
drato locoomutioatlyvefoporwanera.tmThoast-
pheric railway would pay
was his impression from the first, and he had seen no reason to
change the opinion ; on the contrary, he was more confirmed in it.
The annual expense of locomotive power was 10d. a mile, which was
a gradual reduction of Id. per mile. Two years ago it was Is., alio
in mineral districts the expense of locomotive power was as low
as Bd.
After SOME interruption from Mr. ALEXANDEL who conceived that
the examination was here out of the rules of evidence, it was decided
that Mr. Locke should proceed.
On further question, the witness proceeded to say that, from the
teetiaiony of a person who had been sent to the Croydon line, and
from whose information he borrowed, that for wages and fuel alone,
ted to 21. 104 per mile which was three times that of the loco-
on the 5 miles now in operation on the atmospheric principle, the cost
motive power.
or any other of the incidental expenses.
amoan
This included nothing for leakage, grease, repairs,
At this point the room was cleared, and on the re-admission of the
public,
Sir C. DOUGLAS stated that the Committee had decided that the
principle of atmospheric traction should not be entered into.
To Mr. I,I,ExANDEa's cross-examination, Mr. Locke replied, that
the cost for land of 10,6721. WAS included in the gross estimate. At

present the real estimate for the gross returns of the line was
10,4001., the working expenses 4,7001., leaving a profit of 6,0001.; the
line was shorter and more direct than the line of 1844, and the in-
crease of the estimates of returns arose from the increase of traffic.
Indeed so had the business opened that the facilities of the South-
Western Company for the public were about to be very largely de-
veloped, so that there were to be four lines of rail laid down to
Bungerford, and double accommodation was to be given to the junc-
tion with the Richmond branch at Battersea.
To the CHAIRMAN—Mr. Locke replied, that he believed that if there
were no other traffic than that of the race week alone it,would remu •
nerate for the outlay required for the construction of the railway,
and he thought it was a great hardship that the inhabitants of the
district had not sooner had a western terminus. There were no
engineering difficulties, tunnels, or other impediment whatever.
Mr. Butcher, a surveyor at Ewell, and proprietor of brick-fields in
that parish, testified to the non-interference of the line with orna-
mental property, and to the low value of the land. He made
nearly a million of bricks, some of which he had attempted to
send to London, but the cost was 11. a thousand, and the carriage
beat him. On the railway he could transmit them for less than ss. a
thousand, an advantage which he should be very glad to obtain,
From his profession lie had much intercourse with the middle and
hjgher classes, and he was convinced that their feelings were de-
cidedly in favour of the South-Western branch.
Mr. Steel, a resident of Epsom, stated that there were about
12,000 sheep, 3,000 oxen, and a number of lambs, calves, and other
stock which might be sent much mbre advantageously by this line
than the other. The posting was also chiefly to the West•end. On
the Derby day the namber of persons present on the race course
were from 180,000 to 200,000, which were chiefly persons from
the London side of the country. He had been to every
respectable house in Epsom, and he could say that the feeling was
almost unanimous in favour of this line. With respect to the petition
against the line he had ascertained that fifty of the petitioners had
signed this petition ; fifty had declined to sign, lest they should ap-
pear foolish, though anxious to do CO ; thirty were on the list of those
excused on account of their poverty from paying rates ; fifty were
lodgers, paying no rates at all ; and the remainder squatters on the
common. All the magistrates had signed in favour of this line, and
the only person of respectability who had signed the other was the
vicar and Mr. Northey, who was lord of the manors both of Ewell
and Cheam ; the latter of these gentlemen, however was decidedly in
favour of the South-Western line.

Mr. Mason, of the Spring Hotel, at Ewell, testified to the feelings
of the jnhabitants, which he had gathered by going round with a
petition. The reason why the vicar had not signed was, his having
sold a considerable quantity of land to the Croydon Company, and
he therefore thought that it would not look well to support their
opponents. The petition from Ewell in favour of the Croydon line
had been chiefly signed by persons occupying cottages of from 41. to
6/. a year rent. He had been a coach proprietor for the last seven
years, and up to that time there were twenty-six coaches which
passed his house, twenty of which went to the West-end. The
witness spoke also to the value of the land and the feelings of the
people. At this point the room was cleared.
When the public were re-admitted, the CHAIRMAN declared that
the Committee were of opinion that it was unnecessary to offer any
opposition, as the preamble of the Bill had not been proved.