The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-19 00:00:00

S 117 N 7 AUGUST 19, 1848.

The House resumed at a Quarter past Five o'clock..
Mr. HUME presented a petition from an Odd Fellows'
Society complaining of the Provident Associations
Fraud Prevention Bill, and praying that it might not
be passed into a law.

The HON. MEMBER also presented a petition from
merchants, maltsters, and others, residing at Southwall,
in Suffolk, complaining of certain encroachments which
had been made in the harbour at that place, and praying
for an inquiry.
The HON. MEMBER also presented a petition signed
by a great number of female householders in Edinburgh
complaining of the annuity tax.

FREEDOM (151` TIIE PRESS.
The HON. MEMBER also presented a petition from the
Editor of the North British Press, stating that he had
been arrested and imprisoned; that all the copies
of the papers ;had been seized; that his letters had
been stopped for several days, and, to the best
of his knowledge, in the absence of any proper
warrant, and praying that as it was an unwarrantable
interference with the rights of property and the liberty
of the press, some inquiry might be instituted into the
matter by the House.
ODD FELLOWS.

Lord D. STUART presented several petitions from
the order of Odd Fellows against the Provident Assoei •
ations Fraud Prevention Bill.
TRANSPORTATION TO VAN DIEMEN'S LAND.

Mr. EWART said he had presented a petition from the
free settlers of Van Diemen's Land, complaining of the
resumption of the system of transportation to that colony,
and he wished to ask the Secretary for the Home De-
partment whether the present system of transporting
convicts to Van Diemen's Land was to be continued, or
whether it was only temporary?
Sir G. GREY said it was in the contemplation of the
Government that convicts should undergo the greater
portion of their term of imprisonment in this country,
and that they should be sent out to the colony at a
period when they were more likely to be useful to it,
and able to earn their own subsistence.

PROVIDENT ASSOOIA.TrONS FRAUD PRE-

[PRICE SD.

did not think it likely that those mines could
be profitably worked by private individuals. If the island
offered such advantages to settlers as the Hon. Gentleman
supposed, why did not private individuals attempt to colonise
it? Under these circumstances it was thought desirable to
occupy the island and to obtain the aid of the Hudson's Bay
Company. The charges brought against the company restell
on the statement of an individual; they were very imper-
fectly sustained by evidence, and they were distinctly re-
futed by the company. Colonel Crofton, who commanded a
detachment for some time in Prince Rupert's Land, gave a
favourable opinion respecting the system of administration
pursued by the company, more especially as regarded their
policy in discountenancing the use of ardent spirits.
With respect to spiritual comfort and education, there
were four Protestant churches and nine schools, four
Roman Catholic schools, a Roman Catholic bishop and
several Roman Catholic priests in the Red River settle-
ment alone, which contained a population of only 5,000.
But, although he considered that the charges against the
company were not sustained, his Noble Friend thought that
the whole question should be investigated by parties totally
disinterested. A gentleman who held a commission in the
Queen's army was appointed for this office.
An HoN. MEMBEIt—Is he not governor under the Hud-
son's Bav Company ?
Mr. liAWE3 believed that was the case; but he did not
consider that would have any influence upon the report of a
gentleman of rank who held the Queen's commission.
Taking into consideration the circumstances he had stated,
he thought his Noble Friend was fully justified in the course
he had taken.

Mr. GLADSTONE said that nothing but a sincere and
profound conviction that great public interests were at stake
—very great though somewhat remote public interests—and
therefore the more necessary to be brought within the view
and under the appreciation of the people of England—would
have induced him to delay the House from going into Com-
mittee.—(Hear, hear.) If on the present occasion he felt
obliged to express himself strongly, it .was not from any
personal feeling. He did not mean • toscharge the Noble
Lord at the head of the Colonial-office with any improper
motives or private interest in making this grant, but he
considered, that he committed a gross error—that he had
gone astray in his judgment more signally than in any
other instance which •he could recollect in the colonial
administration of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Of what
did the speech of the Hon. Gentleman who defended
the conduct of the Colonial-office consist ? Partly of an
endeavour to make good the character of the Hudson's Bay
Company, and partly of an endeavour to show that it was
necessary speedily to occupy Vancouver's Island, and that
as the Hudson's Bay Company was the only instrument that
offered itself for this purpose, it was right, in the absence of
all others, to avail themselves of that. He (Mr. Gladstone)
would grant the force of that argument if they could show
that the Hudson's Bay Company was not open to funda-
mental objections.—(Hear, hear.) But, on the other hand,
if he could show that there were the most valid objections to
granting Vancouver's Island to the company, the necessity
for a speedy occupation would be no argument for granting
it to them, for it would be better to proceed slowly and
surely than speedily but rashly and mischievously. They
were not then discussing a question of a day or of a year, but
a question relating to an island in which, probably, at some
future period of the history of the world a powerful state
would exist, and which would command a great portion of
the trade between the Archipelago of the Pacific and the con-
tinent of America.—(Hear, hear.) The question, therefore,
before them was, whether they would found a new and
powerful state from the descendants of the people of Eng-
land, in an island which was favourably situated, which
possessed a climate somewhat analogous to our own, and
which had a considerable quantity of fertile soil ready for
immediate use.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman did
not deny that it possessed a large quantity of that valuable
mineral which was the necessary food of steam navigation.
It possessed a number of safe and commodious harbours—the
only good ones along the southern coast, except the harbour
at the mouth of the Columbia river, which was rendered very
unsafe by a bar that ran across. 1k was, therefore, probable that
Vancouver's Island would be the key to a great portion of
the trade of the west of America.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Gentleman asked why did not private individuals at-
tempt to colonize it if it was so good? One very good reason
was that till 1846 there was a dispute concerning it, and it
was not known whether it was to be American or British
territory.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman would
also admit that the circumstances of the country since 1846
were not favourable to great commercial enterprises. But
the Hon. Gentleman let slip a very unfortunate observation,
which showed that the island was worth being occupied;
for he said that if this country did not occupy it, and that
speedily, it, would be occupied by others.—(Hear, hear.)
Others, then, would think it worth their while to occupy it,
and would take the opportunity of founding a valuable co-
lony. But the Hon. Gentleman talked of the expense of
sending people there. It was true that by sailing round
Cape Horn the voyage was a very long one, but it was not
much more distant than Australia. But no one could say
how soon a communication might be formed with Oregon.
It would be rash in him to say that such a communication
would be opened in any gigterytyne, in 100 years or '2O years,
or 10 years; but looking to the gigantic works performed by
the Americans in thsat way, and how they connected the dis-
tant parts of that vast continent by great works, even some
of those who listened to him might live to see the day when
the communication with Oregon would be opened.—(Hear,
hear.) Now, with regard to the Hudson's Bay Company,
all experience showed that colonization by means of compa-
nies was not the best. The colony of South Australia, while
under the management of a company, had entirely failed,
and it began to prosper only when taken into the hands of
the Government. He agreed with the Hon. Gentleman that
companies produced universal and unqualified mischief when
they undertook the business of colonisation, and therefore
that the governing power should be retained in the hands of
the Government. He admitted that they did not mean to
give governing powers to the Hudson's Bay Company. But
that company was a trading company. It was an exclusive
company, in the narrowest and tightest sense of the term.
(Hear, hear.) And it was also a land company. It was in
reference to such a company that Adam Smith used the fol-
lowing language :—" Of all the expedients that can well be
contrived to stint the natural growth of a new colony, that
of an exclusive company is the most effectual."—(Hear,
hear.) He was not to be understood as saying a word
against the formation of land companies, which he admitted
were capable of forwarding colonization, but if the Hudson's
Bay Company was to be a land company and a trading
company also, he protested against the arrangement. A
trading company would be a rival to the colonist, and they
would do all in their power to restrict and repress the deve-
lopment of trade. There was no instance of a prosperous co-
lony when placed under the authority of a trading company.
It became necessary to take away the trading functions of
that great and powerful company the East India Company,
because they were found to be an incubus on the commercial
energies of this country, and because they repressed the
development of the resources of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
So with the Dutch East India Company, which had the spi-
rit of monopoly enshrined in it, though it was not to be
compared with the Hudson's Bay Company. What was
the case with regard to their own colonies of North Ame-
rica, which were at first regarded merely as corporations?
All experience was against the combination of land pur-
chases with trading functions. There was never a case in
which the evils of monopoly had had such a rank develop-
ment as the case of the Hudson's Bay Company. This com-
pany had existed for 180 years, and during the whole of its
career exhibited.all the evils of monopoly in the most striking
light. The Hon. Gentleman deprecated any discussion of the
title of the company; but he (Mr. Gladstone) thought this
a very relevant question. It was the very weakness of that
charter which had operated malignantly upon the operations
of the company throughout its career. The charter of 1670
purported to give the most exorbitant powers to the com-
pany ; but the company felt so little secure with its charter
that in 1690 it sought an Act of Parliament to corroborate
its powers, an Act which, however, only endured until
1697, since which time the company had no Parliamentary
authority for the exorcine of its powers. In 1714 a Com-
mittee was appointed by the House to inquire into the
" pretended rights" of the company to exercise the powers
it claimed ; and upon that occasion the company, so far
from insisting upon its rights, prayed, in its petition to the
House, that for anything that might be taken from it, it
might receive compensation. The Right Hon. Gentleman
quoted Mr. Bancroft 's opinion, and that of Sir Vicary Gibbs,
that such a charter as that claimed by the Hudson's Bay
Company, granted by the Crown without the sanction
of Parliament was ab initio void and of no effect. There
was a joint opinion of Sir Arthur Pigott, Sergeant
Spankie,
t
Spankie, and of Mr. Brougham to the same purpose.
fur-trading company, this company was altogetherineligibleat
to be entrusted with the charge of colonization. It was not
a colonizing company; it was essentially an anti-colonizing
company. Its object, as a fur-trading company, was
neces-
sarily to keep its territories in the wild and savagew state
adapted for the growth and diffusion of the animals upon
whose fur they relied for their commerce. It might be true
that in its older servants the company possessed the apparent
materials for colonization; but the absolute and unmitigated
despotism which had characterised the rule of this company
from the outset, had altogether unfitted these men as a body
of free settlers, such as alone ought to be planted in Vancou-
ver's Island, or anywhere else. To use the words of Captain
Willis, the company's servants were alliof them mere vassals,
pliant, from long and strict discipline, to the will of their
masters. In 1811, six members of the company themselves
memorialised the Government against the settlement on the
Red River, on the distinct principle that colonization was un-
favourable to the fur trade. The Honourable Member
argued that the company would make no great
profits of Vancouver's Island as a colony; certainly
they would not, nor did they contemplate such a result,
their object being not the promotion of colonization at
all, but the extension of their hunting grounds.
The company had been all along the determined enemy of
colonization. Hudson's Bay, it was well known, would afford
had
a large revenue from a whale fishery; but the
wmPanyshi s
neither fished itself, nor allowed others; nay, whegnectlwtoo h haL
came tl tere en a whaling expedition, they ulian
them sunk. In the same way the companywhch
neglect ed to work the ample resources mans
landd wcoanilly.
tem
com-
pany o r a body of colonists would havmeddesevielnloapnedd. onn the,
shores of the bay, and malsy, Toarnd Selkirk,
when he had
had bettn an attempt made by
miles of the company's
bought up some 116,000
squarelted River ; but the other
territory, to found a
colony at
vigorously set themselves
members of the company o an had done;
against tl se proiect, as thet that
tNotrihti-iNv
ereeswt Cas;npgnizyance,more
and there was little doubt
or less, ,en the part of those dissentients, of the attack of the
Indians upon the Red River settlement, which had inter at-
tended with such sanguinary results. The same ests
would b e at work to oppose colonization in Vancouver's Is-
land, ad—for there were Indians in Vancouver's Island—
perhapsa
similarhy
means. By the deed under which settlers
hold he ids under the Hudson's Bay Company those settlers
divested l themselves of all freedom of action, of all the
privileg es of Englishmen, placing themselves wholly
and in aal respects at the absolute disposal of the company,
tied hal sl and feet. Was this to be the principle on which
settlers wore_ to
.go oat to Vancouver's Island? 'rho com-
pany ha iirito;s'ort of intention, when they negotiated this
matter \vi th We Government, of forming what was under
stood Iv .a colony in Vancouver's Island. This was a
sugges-
tion whicsh the Government had made, and which the
com-
pany had. accepted, with however wry a face, in thefee
that at all events they could weaken the effect of
coloniza-
tion by . all sorts of modes, asking, in return for the conces-
sion, a g rant of all the Queen's territories west of the Rocky
Mountai as, in order manifestly to keep other people from
coming a nywhere near them. The Hon. Member had
alluded
to the c barges made against the compel yQ h s suffi-
ciently it aportant, in his opinion, to warrant, agt,if notr-e the re-
-fusal of t, ais grant, at all events its suspension. The Hon.
Member t i id there had been an inquiry into these charges