The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-09 00:00:00

WAY.

On the motion for the further consideration of the
report of the Paisley, Barrhead, and Ilurlet Railway
Bill,

Mr. F. MACKENZIE opposed the further progress
of the Bill, and moved that the report be further con-
sidered that day six months.
Mr. R. SPOONER seconded the amendment.

Mr. HUME supported the amendment. ----
Mr. BOUVERIE trusted that the House would not
be led away by the statement of Hon. Members, but
would allow the Bill to proceed.
Mr. BANKES supported the amendment.
Mr. ELLICE, jun., thought if the House adopted the
amendment, and rejected the report of the Committee,
it would be guilty of the grossest inconsistency.
After some further discussion the House divided,
when there appeared—

For the'amendment 35
Against it
Majority against it —3l
The report was then agreed to, and the Bill ordered
to be engrossed.
OPERATION OF THE BANK ACT.
The report of the Committee on Banks was brought
up and laid upon the table.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
that the report would be printed.

BOARD OF AUDIT.
Dr. BU WRING moved for a return, in detail, of the
amounts paid in the year endinc, the sth day of January,
1848, out of the Consolidated Fund, or from any other
source, for the salaries and allowances of the Chairman
and Commissioners of the Board of Audit, and of the sa-
laries and expenses of the said board, specifying the name
and salary of each person, and the amount paid on each
description of service (in continuation of Parliamentary
Return, No. 438, of Session 1837). Return, showing
the latest period to which the accounts of the various
departments have been rendered to the Board of Audit,
the date of the last accounts audited, the date to which
the examinations have taken place; the reasons for delay,
if any, in the audit or examination, with any elucidatory
remarks explaining the inefficiency of the existing sys-
tem (in continuation of Parliamentary Return, No. 110,
of Session 1843). Minutes of the Board of Audit of the
18th day of January, 1833, 01 the 9th day of April,

of the 2d day of March, 1533, or of any ta:nu
since J,:mtlary, 1830, by wh •ch public acconn-
ants have bocci discharged, or public acc.iunttl
pa•sed, without detailed examination and audit.
Report of any changes which have been introduced for
improving the system of audit, in consequence of the
inquiries instituted by the Board in the year 1845 ; and,
statement of the measures taken by the Audit Boarot to
give cfftct to the 12th, 13th, Mil, 15th, 16th, 17th, and
18th resolutions of the Committee u:1 Coionial Accounts,
dated the 17th day of July, 1845, and which of the Crown
colonies have failed to comply with the same.—Agreed to.
THE CONDUCT OF THE POLICE IN BISHOP
BONNER'S-FIELDS.

Mr. G. THOMPSON wished to put, a question to the
Right Hon. Baronet, of which he had given him notice.
He prayed the attention of the House for one or two
moments, in order that he might be enabled distinctly to
state the reasons which had induced him to ask the
question which he should presently propound to the
Right Hon. Baronet.
The SPEAKER intimated to the Ilon. Member that
he must confine himself entirely to the question which he
intended to put.

Mr. G. THOMPSON—The nature of the question
was this : he had to ask the Right son. Baronet whe-
ther he was in possession, from any quarter, of
information alleging that on Sunday last, the 4th
instant, certain outrages had been inflicted by
the police upon peaceable, loyal, and well-
conditioned individuals living in the neighbourhood of
the Tower Hamlets.—(Hear, hear, and partial laughter.)
He put the question because he held the testimony in his
hand of 60 witnesses, all of whom he had reason to
believe were respectable persons, folr.o wing decent occu-
pations—many of them were respectable inhabitants, and
shopkeepers in the Tower Hamlets.. Their testimony
was consistent and concurrent, and agreed in this, that
the most brutal outrages were committed by the police,
not only in Bishop Bonner's fields, but even more than
a mile from the scene where the Chartist outrages took
place; and they stated, that unless the Government
instituted a searching inquiry intc. all the facts of the
case, and adopt means to prey ent the recurrence
of similar outrages for the future, that great
dissatisfaction would continue to exist in that
neighbourhood. In putting this question to the Right
Hon. Baronet, he begged to assure him and the House
that he had no sympathy with v'.olent language and
disaffection. He simply asked the question, at the re-
quest of his constituents, who Ilan. placed an amount
of evidence in his hands w'aieh deserved 'the
serious consideration of the Government, and he
was sure the Government would be of his
opinion when they were in possession of the facts.
He therefore begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
whether he had any information sustaining that com-
plaint against the police, or intend( and to adopt any steps
to prevent a recurrence of it if proved?

Sir G. GREY said the Hon. Gentleman had given him
notice of his intention to ask whether any information
had been received complaining of alleged attacks made
by the police, on last Sunday evening, on individuals in
the neighbourhood of the Tower Hamlets and Bethnal-
green. Now, he was able to bring down to the House
some evidence on that subject whichi he could not have
brought on a former occasion. He 'would proceed, how-
ever, to answer the question of the Eon. Member in the
first instance. He should say he had received a com-
plaint of the conduct of the police. In a letter
which had been sent to him,' date last Monday, the
sth of June, written by an individual named W.
Higgins, from the neighbourhood of Victoria park, the
writer stated that, in his opinion but one feeling
was entertained in the neighbourhood—namely, that
the conduct of the police wa, most brutal, and as bar-
barous as ever beheld. —(Hear, heir.) He had
received other communications tie the same effect.
He had also received two other letters, one signed
James Fox and the other Arthur .Katheer, which con-
tained a similar statement to that vellich he had already
read to the House. That was the substance of the com-
plaint he had received in reference so the alleged brutal
conduct of the police, but it would he an act of injustice
to that body if he did not state that he
had also received evidence of a. contrary nature.
to that which he had just read, and which showed clearly
what were the nature of the meetings held in in Vic-
toria park and other places in the neighbourhood.--
(Cheers.) Meetings of this nature had been held pre-
viously to last Sunday, which had given rise to great
disturbances and to the stoppage of trade in various dis-
tricts; and information having come to their know.
ledge that similar meetings were to be held
last Sunday in the neighbourhood of the
Tower Hamlets, the Commissioners of Police,
under his directions, stationed an additional force
in the vicinity of the places of meeting. The
instructions given to the police were, that they must
be prepared to act immediately, but that they were not
to interfere with the meetings so long as they
remained orderly, and so long as their pro-
ceedings were conducted in a peaceable manner.
The Commissioners had previously issued a notice that
these meetings were illegal if they were continued after
dark, and the police had instructions to disperse them if
that rule were violated. He now held in his hand
the report of the inspector under whose immediate
charge the police acted, and from this report it would
appear that a meeting of the Irish Confederates took
place at three o'clock on Sunday, and a meeting of the
Chartists was held at five o'clock 'the same day. In-
spector Wailer was stationed with a body of men out
or the public view, in the St. James's Church district.
An inspector who made the report was iu attendance
at the different points where the meetings were collected
throughout the entire day. Tho inspector stated that
at the latter meeting no less than 3,000 persons of all
descriptions had assembled, who remained orderly until
25 minutes past seven o'clock, when the meeting
broke up, and then between 400 and 500 pro-
ceeded to the church, and broke nearly all the
windows, and when the inspector passed he was received
with the shouts and execrations of the snob, many of
them pelting him with stones. The people were called
upon to disperse quietly, but the intimation was an-
swered by another shower of stones, and the police
were therefore compelled to interfere. One sergeant
and seven police-constables were severely injured, and
several had been rendered unfit for duty. The
inspector stated, in addition, that several per-
sons who witnessed the proceedings were ready
to corroborate the statements in his report. He
(Sir G. Grey) had received a letter from a Mr. Houghton,
complaining, not of the interference of the police, but
showing the great danger which might have resulted from
their not interfering earlier, and therefore more effectually.
That letter concluded by the writer complaining that
the rate-payers of the parish should be subjected
to the annoyance, insult, and injury to life and property
which these meetings were calculated to bring about.
He (Sir George Grey) held in his hand 81
letters from different inhabitants of the dis-
trict, concurring in the statement with respect to
the inconvenience of those meetings, and as to the
forbearance with which the police had acted; and
he was assured that there was but one opinion on the
subject throughout the whole district in which the
meeting had been held, and that the police were
entitled to the greati.st praise.—(Hear, and cheers.)
Several persons had been committed to the Central Cri-
minal Court for having been parties to the disturbances.
He had that very day received a deputation of gentle-
men from the neighbourhood of Bethnal-green to re-
quest him to present for them a loyal address to
her Majesty, assuring her that they viewed with abhor-
rence the scenes that had lately taken place in the
metropolis, and assuring her of their loyal determina-
tion to uphold the Crown, the Government, and the law.
He had also read a memorial from the inhabitants of
the neighbourhood of Victoria-park, stating the oceurenco
that had taken place in the neighbourhood on Sunday
last, and expressing their hope that the Government would
immediately adopt seine course to suppress such meetings,
and thereby remove the alarm and danger that existed.
He would only say with respect to the statements which
the Hon. Member had made against the police, that
the parties making them had the same means of
proving their truth as the police had of justifying
their conduct.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") A tribunal
had been sitting to hear any complaints on either side,
but he was not aware that any had been made
against the police.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure
the Honourable Member that there was no
disposition on the part of the Government to interfere
with meetings of a legitimate character—(Hear, hear)
—but he thought all would admit that the
meetings that had lately taken place in the
metropolis were anything but of such a description.
Tho police had orders from the Government to afford
every protection to persona and property, and to
put down such illegal and improper meetings,
and he was sure from the course they had hitherto
adopted, they would not hesitate to do that which the
safety to the property and life of her Majesty's subjects
imperatively demanded.—(Hear, hear.)
NAVIGATION-LAWS—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Sir JOHN WALSH. then resumed the adjourned
debate on the navigation-laws. He said he was sur-
prised that no attempt had been made on Friday night
to answer the able and convincing speech of his Hon.
and Learned Friend the Member for Whiteheven (Mr.
Hildyard). He observed that the advocates of free trade
had not on this occasion resorted to their usual argu-
ment—that the interests that would be affected by the
alteration of the navigation-laws were class interests,
and, therefore, that it would be beneficial to the
this
occasion to abolish them. The argument they used commaon
occasion was this, that the measure would not be detri-
mental to the mercantile marine of the this country. Under
this view of the case, the statements o Hon. and
the Prussian
Learned Friend respecting the inereasetontl.
rrhehey russ
should
commercial marine became very important.
of an alteration ofo rti
not look merely to the positive effect
the navigation-laws.
alteration of them were
likely to give a relliavne increase to the marine
of foreign countries, as compared with their
own, that House ought not to consent to make
such alterations. The Hon. Member for Westbury
alluded to the augmentation of
,tbeir
,commercial
marine since the passing of Mr. Huskieson s measure,
bu
theforgot that there was a natural increase of that
marine,
which was not at all connected with the mea-
sures of that statesman. He would only refer to the
increase which had taken place iu consequence of the
traffic to the east of the ',Cape, to China, Penang, and
Singapore.—(hear, hear.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite
seemed to him to fritter away the advantage of their
commercial marine to the royal navy. Tile evidence of
SirJ.Stirling alone was taken before the Committee with
respect to this important eitestion. That one person
only was examined he considered to be a proof that the
subject had received too little consideration. But he
had a plan of his own, namely, that they should, main-
tain a larger naval establishment in time of peace. Ile
thought it was too much to be called on to decide on so
important a point on the evidence of a single indivi-

dual, who, i was evideet, had peculiar vieseLrefe-
specting it. It seer eed to him that the fallacy of Sir d
Stirling's evidence vvie clear On the face ot it, for he appeared
never to have taken into his consideration the circumstance
that an emergency might arise for a sudden augments-
lion ot the navy. Iv here could they find, on a sudden
emergency, some 70,000 or 80,000 persone to man sudden
navy? Laud men weuld be merely an impediment. `-flitte
mercantile marine meet he their wain reliance in time °_
war. They were a kind f national guards, which leer',
free, too, from those objections which existed *Pic!,
such a body in other countries. He had listened
01e.%
tively to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentletnaitii,
Member for the University of Oxford, which was eeeo
vered with more than his usual clearness, and it
understood his Right lion. Friend's plan, it was ferve
a permission to negotiate with foreign powers on
terms of reciprocity. He preferred that plan to t_",
measure of the Government, which went to the elan
total abrogation of the navigation-laws. It seemed 1:0
him to be the height of absurdity to yield advantag Jo.
Illrefe_e
other states without receiving any benefits auto
It seemed to him that the Government could notiati;
chosen a worse time for introducing a 'sPecu teas
measure like the present, whilst the continental s_ for
were in such confusion. Was this a proper tin° go
them to try such rash and doubtful theories ?
would advise them to wait at all events tills he,' 5"
he
bad
what would be the result of the storm. tli of
foreseen what had since occurred in the stateees
Europe, ho did not believe the Government this
have introduced such a measure. The pronaciterleafeweut
measure were altogether mistaken in their sang-, i
tee,
Utopian views, that wars would no longer exisetioo.ea
that they were to have a universal peace. He white
the House to pause before they passed a measure al Pr'
would weaken the foundation on which the nav °
macy of England rested.—(Hear.) which
the
Mr. MACGREGOR considered the results „owe
opponents of the resolutions predicted from an elope'
in the navigation-laws to be at variance with a_
see.
rience. They believed that if the measure wagweeel
tioned by Parliament the inevitable consequeneetai ex'
be the ruin of their shipping interest, and the °viola'
tinction of their maritime power. He vva
500'3
sceptical with respect to any such consequence weal-
examined the question on its principles.
interest c'ef
gated the facts with regard to the shipping e ivbice
other countries; and he could not find a single 041,11p5, wed
would lead him to the conclusion with which the
tb4
threatened by the opponents of the measure with
contrary, he believed the effect of the Bill, couPb7iight
the measures of commercial freedom passed by teeelte th°
Hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Peel), would belle""„reste;t
ports and ducks of the United Kingdom eob world'
emporium that ever existed for the produce `lie° elope'
—(Hear, hear.) It was said that their 'Derdk:. as
rity and naval grandeur were concurrent
ewfir,; whet;
caused by the navigation-laws, from the le de;
they were passed by that stern ruler to wheal!. adeoftecu
nied a niche in their palace at Westminster. 1"a, fifeniteY'
the concurrence, but he denied the cause. T.llet,he fin
so far as prosperity was in question, was
.llr and tb
nity which existed between the pYvarra ;,0 c
te fertility of the banks of the Nile. Those "'Je etteigtti
er '
on the dependence of their naval power on
.o.eeti
tion-laws would discover that their naval pow of
se
that of any other country before the ofe%istelle Alfte°.:
laws. Without going so far back as the time iooe eve;
he would mention that a victory bad been Faleel•
the
the French fleet in the time of Edward Lc_ 1416 i t",
English fleet destroying 15 French vessels; fleet, d
Duke of Bedford, who eommanded the Englisudestror,.
fettled 500 ships in the Channel; in 1415,
thelthe I)?tritle
the Dutch fleet; again in 1512, they beat via 4
fleet; in 1545 they defeated the F reach flee&b,
en itol,
1653 the Duke of York beat the Dutch fleet, leio 16, 5
impossible that the navigatien.laws, which pal no 0041,
could have had any effect. Other countries h"1 ore. f!
tion- laws at all, and yet they had a great naval it
land bad the greatest difficulties to contend wi",,o' adeleas.
out the aid of navigation- laws she became ale-foteges ,ef
maritime power, whilst Spain, with vast ce'the toiceegiol
rived from her West Indian possessions an' ootealereoe
Mexico, and with a code of maritime ss ber 0401.
laws of the most stringent character, had '°,o6tir
strength. He believed that at the preeent than rid
land was considerably stronger as a neva' rebel' did
Spain and Portugal together. Ile should aPP. fie le
danger whatever from the repeal of these lapss je 11:03,
not relieve British shipping had ever suffeeret into e ate'
quence of relaxation. When the House weeforwatef tee
mittee on these resolutions he should bring oleo° ea
tistics in proof of his position. As reeeesen.tee
largest ship-building constituency but (311:00142: 14
pire, he should give this measure hie sca`leoatufeieg
most perfect confidence that it m eat'etetii
acceptable to his constituents• ee-aeve ease
out these laws, however, he did Peeeielea,os
t onis siry measures would be required. l'heed.
‘,Ol 01,1
monstrousstemtootfhinthkethcaoturnitoryvemssuett be 018 til; Hoe -
enter or sail from any port of theetivenniteidli jilTligase°:l7beiefr:
cept under the superintendence of a custcm'esed hiestifel
flo. thought also that all duties on tinehcf,o the °°--0, the
building must be repealed. With respect 'oeted flat be
trade he thought no harm was to be csP trade' do
competition of any vessel in the coasting b dodeeod to
did fear that in consequence of our ibigweeld,neeit
wine and spirits the opening of that trate° nt t1:0-eftees
a great amount of smuggling. Ile was stele 16"
afraid of the effect of repeaCupon our naTA ee•ea
Mr. WILLIAM MILES had listened eee Pada
speaker with very great astonishments tero, ltli-oect;
pected very different arguments from the
ofn otiY
the amount of study he had given teect„ooolaete t`'
but he had not heard one single alio ocea
weight in proof of his position that these 500°00'
be repealed. What was the state of the ePreted nort•
fore the House? The House had aPPfo-tie 00 t 0 el
flog
mittee of Inquiry; that Committee had leo the
A Committee, however, was now sittiog. Was:Were
Lords. It was receiving evidence was ghat ecestire;
cessible to the House of Con:linens' fails h tat''"
would go far to prove the inadvisability 0 ftl
0,00 005
It would show that Danish ships cost vellixt theu.edoce
to build and to work than British ships' t to r. 00.
oboe he
let the world conceive that they were
sot), tape es
the wages of British seamen to scofed tter;
With regard to American vessels, he co that q
not so much afraid of competition .fele;little ale
In the time of war, however, there couln.red to IV3ikePt
that the mercantile navy would be reelo eeserio a°,
its integrity. What would they d° levotti 0 li,
gency? The feeling throughout the oherigeeoe
universal in favour of the contemplatettfereeer COI
represented by the Hon. and Learned ae,itiees
00 tfil
ton, for, while there were scarcely any P were,
...jot'
for it from the commercial classes, there
_eeo
other hand, very many urgent remonstraue
from our most important shipging ter
°
depots.- of the..nge.
Mr. MOODY, after much consideratiesiltero cesbeeotiet
ject, had satisfied his mind that sofne sewed tfoll'e.;
were necessary in our navigation-la't'he the•
therefore support the original motion - 9 the ;Oda
It was perfectly clear, that whatever Now we 000
value of the free-trade principles, Made 0°3,1
land under the superintendence of the collu otelo'
Member for Tamworth, these princielesoose Oboe
fairly tested without the further change o the e 00
plated.—(Hear, hear.) As to the effee, preseotoo
upon our shipping interest, we seeraeneateof geebofti
at sea on that point, for while one la eppeeye'eed bas
professional men, and therefore, it w°''' -eetionae tete"
a claim to attention for their opns, jog
.oe:
change as wholly destructive of the eligl) old toe
another set of gentlemen, equally professilk out
fore equally entitled to attention,
lean • s
'that the change would do goo: e rather etito 6000
as dst' for out
shipping interest.—(llear, hear.) Tlieli3l. eelsr:yer
subject were equally discrepant in th'rofess°l3o3o"•
and, therefore, it seemed to him, a "n"Peter CePled
dt
son, very desirable, at all events, to go
wore fijil o'4
that the details of the matter Might _ beiog
eb-
cussed—(Hear, bear)—Hon. Gentleeesue„o these "1
at full liberty to give their final decision .yeii
sure as it should then be developed to Often' oleo yeti
re'
Sir G. CLERK said that it was clul laWs
mind that some change in the navigation
r, ise be pot;
quisite, and he could not, therefore, suPPone
AS en t for.ri
ment which was equivalent to a declaratlW oolle ite o
of the House that no change whatever emelt hole
Hon. Gentlemen who supported the ateleredificea,reele
our navigation-laws as of some venerawe es ;• was oipt.
its ute derg ee'
came perfect from the hand of archeeet, no
in point of simple fact, this edifice had te eoestalai lei'
almost from the period of its construettoecor, eTeo• eV!
rations and remodellings, which, hlieere °deist',
ample room and verge for further anuee;oethe.otee,
changes. One thing was manifest, that 07_r, haaietele
who had, from time to time, revised the ef.'o; tee; etiat
upon any distinct or comprehensive platorepaaf_eaott
were disfigured by the most glaring oi „elate° co'
contradictions, ell of them more or less eao,_e_ooteas_4l„/
of them eminently so—to impede our pr. 9,l,rospeVeres
rying nation, and our general commercial! the
ti
gether eepeuelf
(Hear, hear.) He repudiated alto oe ~
which Hon. Gentlemen expressed of „ertteer,eoo
under a change of the law, of foreign sll'Pes'titetareitte'
as regarded their tonnage, with our own, ?",,000 an,
trade. Even as it was, with all the restrictived t
pediments unaer which our present systole pee-thlatiol!
competed with the foreigner successfully .evos P.Oll
the entire tonnage that passed into the Baltt"toe, Wei;
—and our success would of course, to
iii9erere fel'!
more complete when these restrictions - e egi
Competent evidence proved that even as toasters 0 ,e 0
ling of our ships, the facilities afforded to 110,,erce,1
sell by the late changes in our tariff, and by al the fed
to obtain provisions out of bond, had ren,ed 09 RP'
of this item fully thirty per cent., and pia; . ebtotooll
nearly on an equality—practicaly eane„, 00,1:00
equality—in this respect with the steps 01,'";:ith greeo
country. The same proposition applied vireo Sled
equal force to the construction of vessels ...f bud ships
respect he feared no real competition enveLLia tot 'Roc
ships; and as to American vessels, he den_lct elee..„%ef
of equal excellence could be built there see, oftrber
rate than they could be built here. The tut the ;I,
Acre
might, perhaps, be sornethingless tkeree 'rights "oil
was not so good, and the wages of shiPw del'eete'
far heavier, averaging at New York -10__.a;peadoe-tee
elsewhere Be. 4d., a far higher sum that:l.w.
er seo
The wages of the seamen were also hiPoiog 'safe
wages of our own merchant seamentiesavre,rbtovedir'elth'oo,,
York not less than 60s. a month.—(
unless se
es o
wwasas odnoentehintog,
imhopwroevv,e,r,thcelesayr,steteihatdiere.Tovee_rreoeof,
our commercial marine, we shoular p,,,.0
much in the back ground, whateve_oeuner.)
other
rerfe,spect.si---ktilvvoiethot/3iejelet
Rpeic;hivteli:nd.viG-tnetnagtleesmainn
cations which Mr. hiltuororkayoeheaadsi
of our Consuls, ant
they wife one
communications, in whatever light „lice
girded, the late Government was in fie neee cease
eo
Initet or esat at tnewt l:111;c
Mr. Murray had distinctly stated that,Lnriviste of
Lions he had received wvre the result of cotes' of
to severe, f the et,
addressed by himself personally, Lige o d t[i
his own acquaintance altogethervid irrespae
verntuent. Mr. Murray's eence, lowered'

hots la;
iaepN had collected, were fully corroborated, in their
ar -elons as to the ignorance, carelessness, and stu-
oideY of the masters of our commercial marine, by the
Cadence of many gentlemen of great and long experi-
nce •
in flu,
tince trade. Mr. Soames, among others, dis-
:a stated that of late years the character of the
Asters in our commercial marine had so deterie-
led, that foreign masters were . now regarded in
4 9st all foreign parts as decidedly superior in pro-
ssional competency and personal trusworthiness, and
ieferred accordingly. Thus, foreign shipowners have
far
improved the character of the masters of their
~.1.33°18, that in a foreign port a preference is given
a' theta over the English masters, because they take
the evidence
better care of their ships and cargo. Such
.was
11. evidence on this point. Then, again, the American
thlr made quicker voyages than 'English ones, though
4., iii.e erWicaasnascribed very candidly by Captain Briggs, an
14 rtnegs master, to the crew having an interest in t e
of the voyage, and thence acquiring a more
Perfect knowledge of the currents. But all this only
?roved
beta es how superior foreign masters of ships were,
sow in knowledge and conduct, to English shipmasters.
tillinitriellel, in
eweaernei were the late Government of this fact,
unction with Sir G. Cockburn, had drawn
ale)dft scheme for the voluntary examination of masters
to enatttes of merchant ships; and latterly he was glad
Of tan' whot increase had taken place in the numbers
tough°s°voluntarily applied to be examined, so that
, the blue book which he had quoted had been
pe6 Painful and disagreeable, it had produced some
foZresults by stimulating the masters of English ships
te.""orae better qualified for their profession. With
tm,'Pect to the effect produced by the navigation-laws
eraniLthe commerce and shipping of the country, the
&C Z' as far as America was concerned, would be
na.°-"e by undeniable figures to be a loss to England,
Re iiaaParticularly in regard to the carrying trade.
the Present
heard it said that the Americans so well liked
oenresent working of the navigation-laws, and of their
irouble°ll,nter system of protection, that on no account
tlia-Zt.,ney consent to any change in them. Such was
iiii ae-,76:rine of Mr. Dunbar and others before the Coin-
bee; in fact, Mr. Dunbar stated that the American.
a feradirect advantage over an English merchantman in
leaineltn Port under the present navigation-laws of both
frowns'- As far as the heavy bulky articles which come
/or the Shores of the Baltic, the navigation-laws con-
Witaesda.._,°° advantage whatever upon England. But he
aboiiiroY to admit that any advantage derived by the
the -On of those laws to the commerce and shipping of
date°untry would be very dearly purchased by any
4Uti
rs% °ll of the number of seamen. It was from the
oer„ !Niel navy of England that the country derived
the ITO strength at sea. The great supply of men for
%vie ritisb navy must always come from the merchant
to 0o e, Raving endeavoured, very feebly he was aware,
itais:tQat the reasons of his Right Honourable Friend
3% going into Committee, he should content himself
chit e a:lPressing his firm belief that the contemplated
tlais ee would be productive of good and not of harm to
lead°lninercial navy and the general interests of Eng-
nu hone remark he must, however, make to that was,
le sh:pe could be entertained of making any progress
tssoljr°Posed Bill, which was to be founded on the
,404,V05, unless the Government would consent to lay
its data"? table of the House the entire measure with all
Prepare If If that were not done, how could people be
reitiZen to discuss it when the House went into Com-
„nis -,e, on: the Bill in the middle of July, for that
VotaiZe earliest time at which it, could reach the
Powea,lle stage. He must, however, object to the
opar • that it was proposed to reserve of suspending the
Oil, illati°4 of the Bill by the agency of an order in Colin-
dela,ease the American Legislature should refuse or
kr, y° agree to carry into effect the promises made by
tleto ancroft in the letter read by the Right lion. Gen-
'Rd ,"„ °PPosite. Such a power was not constitutianal,
etißt-tint not to be vested in any Government. The
tioi ,;',l4°n• Baronet concluded by expressing his inten-
kt voing for the Cemnsittee.
(111 • . C4RDWELL said that the question they had to
~, ewe
tiov was, not whether or no they would agree to the
hkeer:rnent proposal, but simply whether they would
NI ,::' Consideration the laws rtnich regulated the na-
• aes„-t-41 of the country. At the commencement of the
Of the° her Majesty bad recommended the considerati
/10,se laws in the speech from the throne, and the
lik-e; °f Commons, in its address, in answer to the
4bitlicrihtifurno.lb the throne, unanimously promised their con-
Since that time several documents had been
pept°ll the table of the House, two from the most im-
eat! Enit countries with which this country had commer-
fsearelations, namely, Prussia and America. The one
V, Prussia intimated that the advantages which
he "41 ships enjoyed in Prussian parts would
Were withdrawn, unless corresponding advansttares
s
oire conceded ; while that from the United
tnetr9il every relaxation, provided their advances were
• had lu, a corresponding spirit by this country. They
ofo-1140 received documents from the most importantuf_
fare 1 colonies, complaining of the grievances they. s
yis under the e operation of the navigation-laws, and
• 4:.,pri the face of all these, facts, the Right Hon. Mem-
Se; or Stamford proposed, by a preliminary motion, to
i..Z4 stop at once to at. attempts at inquiry. For that
tra.
!on alone he (Mr. Cardwell) must oppose the Rigut
a Member's motion. He could not conceive that
" had
, Powners or seamen any reason to apprehend the
s, Petition of foreigners, provided that in all things they
4 6 Put on terms of fair and perfect equality. When
eat.tereembered that British seamen were the descend-
• the of Blake and Raleigh, who had carried our flag to
teehterootest parts of the world, the descendants of the
teat Who had conquered the Armada, he could not con-
lvelle date our maritime power from an order of Crom-
kors4 an Act of Charles ll.—(Hear.) It would be no
' tiatijeasonable to take these Acts as the spring of our
%ea Inio strength, than was the old practice of Spain
ellikess,tugal, who used to take possession of distant
.rope:"°a under the authority of a bull obtained from the
Ilssas What were the true elements of maritime sue-
the Natural aptitude and hardihood in the people, and
oeet.!;(4session of a large amount of capital.—(Hear,
111,,t0p ;I\iiiw, what country in the world would bear a
' 'fle itir.`soll with this on either points?—(Hear, hear.)
Sl:iii,t lion. Member for Stamford had said that in
aqiitik„ll,4bg this question into consideration we were
zcer-",„`"og sixty millions of capital. Was there any
sotait"avilutry in the world that had the same amounth
Lelspitt-eitlashippinge—(Hear, hear.) And with_!ue
aaaar.) a:suet need we fear from competition?—(Hear,
. Ztetiee'T had been told by men of considerable ex
-
I 47. 434,,""t ship building was so cheap in the
.Adriatic,
Feller ;all °,o. hardy, as to make competition in that
eaa'rte sa- object of alarm. But be looked to the port
ites'aleeees'!ned he did not see in the accounts of British
ttilite t 1 tl.„ l'? re any ground for apprehension. He had
or kitret, at competition was to be apprehatt_ele_d, fron:
st ths ! out if he looked to our trade with hussi ,
bat4oPostrZition maintained by British shipping in the
hbitioq ''' aansburgh, he saw little cause for appre-
te beteoln either quarter. He found that our shipping
to! pttt gradually increasing. The tonnage entering
talha I°J,Liverpool, which in 1816 was 642,000
MNitti 1845, 2 819 000 tons, and of that increase
tieda a. . a ~ .
of 4 Was British shipping. We were greatly
Ilia 14
thatn'erica, but it would appear that some par-
‘ll head a Country reciprocated our alarm. He held in
G sand
Country
Protectionist document—being
. 4.eTolotti: delivered to the American Institute by Mr.
14,te Frederic wh_ ,0 he presumed, might be called the
kt toaoa ederick Young of America. Speaking of Bri-
ltV eiltege, Mr. Tolemache said that the British ton-
ittokl, jr, ing the States was, in 1830, 87,281 tons, but
. tikh,4tjahin. 835, increased to 529,922 tons. On these
tiketl thlt 'lets being communicated, Congress re-
(taik‘insta, ' the existence of such a trade, under such
of isikttlee?"' was a remarkable commentary on their
Wit eci-ean) want of sagacity in the administration
hat to ta,;ll4niercial concerns, and made a powerful ap-
silo i the tracovernment to take some steps, so to pre-
tatklitorestr of the States ;being made subservient to
N ar, the of the British colonies.—(Hear.) It would
ke":lliar to !!!. that Protectionist apprehensions were not
sve:thet fttuis country ; and it was some comfort to
tk, akin the- our competition with Americans, the latter,
4, Fiiii,n ir ow_
ri, u country, had no great grounds for
4411:1id ill "'°4l%) By another report of Congress,
(Le atm, at the whole registered tonnage of the United
Ne4ll °lld wills 1815, 854,000 tons. In 1818 it had gone
• P6M-1130 n '5l °illy 606,000. In 1846 it again rose, and
titroteeT° tons. What had been the increase in the
a_a4solo?„ In ton tons,
of Great Britain in the mean-
,,,,its:uoo,„,-1,4 it was 2,500,000 tons ; in 1846 it was
,''4-I;fionlet\'`?•ear, hear.) But from the American in-
ittier.olise tug; must be deducted for the fisheries.
'44h:le-4 aware that in war time no American
` %NI, i,"1011t ore„MPloYed in the fisheries, but on the este-
aNeLWlstsai aijeace they again made their appearance ;
-ifilee-E,e, teer? Pear, if we deducted them from the whole
tee o.'ptils.__,!.l,ad been no increase in American tonnage
Naiora I, kstear, hear.) The Right Hon. Member
PikeN° deprd, in the course of his powerful speech,
retb.lot ott:ration of British shipowners in 1333, com-
CIV4 Ito air Prospects, and had shown by subsequent
tile,' Carew little real cause" there was for fear. He
Livit‘titPola oi) Would refer to the Committee of 1833,1f0r
v,-geiv,,en gieenelli_aner the attention of the House to the
:Its ft ahip,," "3: Air. Aiken, of Liverpool, a most ex-
it d•gett 3 "ner• Mr. Aiken admitted that there
14e ld not orna distress among the shipping interest,
. heu,sUbjeottttlribute it to the reciprocity treaties, the
tt -ee - of apprehension. He was then asked
40 ' if th
Itthas_ao..;ol3:444l.deg restrictions were removed he would
ft Ida a her his ships abroad. His answer
teaecilndiecluire afferent
be nothing saved, as he
*-seed to . articles, which must be brought
Oilld ,14 sho_! Blatant places. Mr. Aiken then pro-
' removal of the timber duties
' tiobL,4l4t-Zmirl2beZyg-iaettrielaolitob shipowners, and pointed out
44 L the em abolished Liverpool and not Bremen
tia pet°, otaervPorium of ship-building. He con-
e taZion. ,/,,J;b_l? that he did not fear anything from
ze ebiastire of e question that now arose was whether
titi Cets for
...nlic Government was calculated to effect
me to hight 7.;.11 hit was brought forward. He agreed
t,tee tz eetor ftonourable Friend that this was not the
Zi ;tile therteo_tue the details of the measure; at the
iZolieitearest ,317.,re some of the provisions which, as
es With sne face of it, it was very difficult to
IN 'or Lie principles and policy of Mr. Huskis-
set, ]rein6tanee, vell'l b • bl G
tia t t°faire ow.,
.. 1 e tee Right Hnnoura e en-
tet7les 0, 41,1 tnat the British shipowner was. to
bt oh tal 411 the 1,,'" equal competition with the ship.-
aatil Who to the °rid, he imposed upon them an obit-
etill ,°!.l th manning of ships from which those
Ih.
43
eh allowed t
10.1t1-1° Ptie"ditb regard have to compete . were free.
41%4 he e"°where
thoeythe building of ships in the
were told that the shipowner
ever hmeispeat r 0 build his ships where he could do so
q.i,„ not saiadte, but the Chancellor of the Excise-
tigiOar pro
.them that he was about to make
ltr "rube I'4 • -
, the r-..a,P9r1 with regard to the import of
v.asam result a if he understood the proposition
/et-fee ]ship °nld be that the raw material of the
-.14, turea obe sub'
Ireatt:.l.:4C4 s teet to a high duty, while the
lhal 11,.. Qeatle„Vere to be admitted free. Then the
L.,
qttah. thftt it an proposed to exempt tbe coasting
""te of 142 T a matter of any great importance,
s 'arra that a proposal for opening

that trade would occasion. It would have been well
had the Right Hon. Gentleman succeeded in preventing
alarm, but he believed that the proposals he had brought
forward had created very great consternation amongst
those interested in the shipping trade, and that the ex-
emption of the coasting trade had had no effect what-
ever in preventing it. The general feeling was that if
they were going to establish freedom at all, they should
have looked for freedom from America in regard to the
coasting trade. These were the reasons why his Right
Hon. Friend had urged on the Government to introduce
measures in the way of reciprocity instead of in the way
of retaliation. He was surprised that no member of the
Government had as yet risen to answer his Right Hon.
Friend's speech in that respect.---(Hear.) He wished to
impress on Ministers how it was that they would fail
in obtaining freedom and equality from the manner
in which their proposition was brought forward.
The Hon. Member for Westbury, referring to the tariff
previous to the year 1846, said: " If yon proceed on the
principles of reciprocity you will be taking a retrograde
step, for the principle you then laid down was, that you
would pay no regard to what other nations did, but that
you would do what was right in regard to commerce,
and leave other countries to follow your example or not
as they pleased." That was, without doubt, the principle
then laid down as to imports generally, and it was the
correct one, for, if you took the raw material of other
countries, it was evident they must take your manufac-
tured goods in return, but the same rule did not apply to
shipping, for the same ship which brought the raw ma-
terial from the Baltic would take back the goods which
were to pay for it; and if the countries from which the
raw material came maintained an artificial system of
protection against our free system of trade in the matter
of carriage it must tend to their advantage and our dis-
advantage. In this respect Ministers were departing
from the principle laid down by Mr. Huskiseon. It
appeared to him that the same reason which prevented
their proceeding in the way of reciprocity should
prevent their proceeding in the way of retaliation ; and
he hoped some member of the Government would explain
how it was that the obstacle in the way of reciprocity
was not equally an obstacle in the way of retaliation in
regard to those countuies to which we were bound by
the most-favoured-nation clause. He, however, believed
that the original intention of Ministers was to proceed
in the way of reciprocity, and that was, in effect, the
demand made by Prussia and America, through Mr.
Bancroft ; and from the Noble Lord's (Palmerston's)
letter in answer to the demand of that gentleman, he
had a right to assume that that was the way ;the Noble
Lord proposed to proceed, and not in a way in which
while certain dangers were incurred under the retalia-
tion clause, we shut ourselves out from availing our-
selves of the advantage we might obtain from recipro-
city. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Herries) invited him,
having those feelings, to join him in throwing an
obstacle in the way of the Bill. He would state
why he could not. In the first place, he must be
allowed to say that his Right Hon. Friend's proposition
appeared to him to be very vague and indefinite ; and
then the evidence taken before the Navigation Com-
mittee, and his own experience when a member of the
Government, proved to him that the existing navigation-
laws not only were full of absurdities and anomalies,
but in many instances actually injurious to the British
shipowner. And with regard to the fear of foreign
competition, it was a libel on the British name to say
that we were not able to compete on equal terms with
any nation in the world. What the Legislature ought
to do was to secure fair play and free competition—let
there be effectual freedom and unlimited means of inter-
course, and the greatest amount of advantage would
then be conferred on British shipping and British trade.
He had only further to express a hope that such a settle-
ment of this question might be effected during the
present session as should secure this important interest
against injudicious changes for the future, and
place it on a firm end satisfactory footing.
The CHANCELLOR of the 'EXCHEQUER agreed
that this was not the proper time to discuss the details
of the Government measure. He could not understand
on what general grounds the measure could be opposed,
unless it was to be contended that it was advantageous to
this country that we should enhance the price of those
articles we required for our manufactures. Only a short
time ago Parliament had found it necessary to suspend
the navigation-laws to facilitate the import of corn; they
had then experienced the benefit of that relaxation, and
he could not see how they could refuse to alter them so
as to admit those articles which were in constant de-
mand for the maintenance of the people and the carry-
ing on of our manufacturei.—(Hear, hear.) As to
the apprehended danger to the shipowner, it was an
established fact, that wherever we were on terms of
fair and equal competition, we could compete
successfully with any country in the world. The
same might be said of the shipbuilder. We built
ships as cheaply as America or any other country, and
there was no reason why, if the trade were thrown open,
we should not be able to compete with other nations.
He did not agree with the Hon. Gentleman that it was
necessary, in order to enable us to do so, to remove the
timber duties. It had been abundantly proved in the
debate that even with those duties we were able to com-
pete with the shipbuilders of every other country. The
Hon. Gentleman also adverted to the invitation given us
by America and Prussia to relax our navigation-laws.
Surely Prussia had a right to demand from us the same
advantages she conferred ; and as for the United States
we would clearly be gainers by the proposed change ;
for at present they had the advantage over us in the
carrying trade. if the system of restrictions were
adopted, he believed that we should lose much more
than Prussia, into whose ports, in 1846, there en-
tered no less than 2,000 British ships. Our colonial
trade stood upon a different footing, and it was pro-
posed to relax the restrictions on it, with a view not to
our own benefit, but that of the colonies themselves. (The
Hon. Gentleman entered into some details to prove these
positions, but in so rapid and indistinct a manner, and
amidst so much noise in the House, as to render it im-
possible to collect them with accuracy.) With regard to
reciprocity treaties he admitted that much might be said
in their favour. The Ministry thought at one time that
they would be the most convenient mode of proceeding;
but the more the Government had looked into the ques-
tion, and considered its difficulties, the more they felt
satisfied that it would not; and they slowly, but with
conviction, arrived at the conclusion, that it would be
better to legislate upon general principles, reserving to
themselves in special cases, the power of retaliation.
But, in reference to America and Prussia and the
northern powers, who were, after all, the competitors
feared, if they threw open their ports to us, we ought to
throw open ours to them. Under the existing law, any
foreign ship had the power to warehouse goods in a Bri-
tish port; but the power of removing them for consump-
tion depended upon their coming in British ships; so
that if a foreign ship loaded a cargo of Indian corn in
one of our warehouses, it could not, even in case of
famine, be taken out, without an order in Council, and
such orders had frequently been issued. He might refer
to many instances in which similar relaxations of the
law had been made by orders in Council; and this proved
that the proposition now made by the Government to
retain the power of the Queen in Council to impose
countervailing duties was not new in the legislation of
this country. These powers had been retained in the
statute 59th George 111., the 4th and sth George IV.,
and the Bth and 9th Victoria, chap. 90. The statute
4th and sth George IV. presented a case precisely in
point; and it had been strictly followed in the present
proposal. From 1817 up to 1822 the United States of
America were not allowed by law to trade to the British
West India colonies; but such American States as were
then dependencies of European Powers might so trade. In
1822, however, an Act passed which for the first time al-
lowed American ships generally to trade to the colonies.
The concession by the 15th section of the Act of 1822 en-
abled the King in Council to prohibit, if he thought fit,
by Orders in Council, the vessels of any one of the Ame-
rican states to trade with the colonies, if those states
did not admit British vessels to trade from their ports
to the West Indies. On this the Americans imposed
tonnage dues on British ships, and in consequence the
powers of the Act of 1822 were increased by an Act
passed in 1823, which enabled this country to impose
additional tonnage duties not only on American ships,
but also on the goods brought in those ships to the West
Indies. These powers were further increased by the
Act of 1824, and these powers had been acted upon with
success, and eventually in 1827 or 1828 the trade and
vessels of the two countries had been placed upon an
equal footing. This showed the advantage of retaining
amidst the concessions now proposed, the powers hereto-

. .
fore kept, and which it was advisable to keep, in
order to exercise it, should any exceptional case arise.
As there would be many future opportunities afforded
him, he would not now go further into the question
than to say that with all his old Admiralty experience
he could not admit that the proposition of the Govern•
ment would have an injurious effect with, regard to the
manning the British navy. On the contrary, he be-
lieved there would always be an ample supply to meet
any demand, and that, as heretofore, the military marine
of this country would continue to be superior to that of
any other nation in the world.
Sir C. BURRELL, who spoke in an inaudible tone,
and amidst loud cries of " Divide," was understood to
say that he considered that the greatest benefits had
been conferred upon this country by the operation of the
navigation-laws; and believing that the change proposed
by her Majesty's Government to bo made in them,
would have a most pernicious effect on the interests of
all classes of the community, he should vote for the
proposition made by his Right Hon. Friend near him
(Mr. Herries.)
Mr. DISRAELI (after a long pause during which the
cries for a division were general, and after strangers had
been ordered to withdraw) rose and said that he under-
stood that several Hon. Members who wished to take
part in the debate had left the House in the expectation
that it would be adjourned. He should do his best to
enable those Honourable Members to fulfil their inten-
tions, by now moving that the debate be adjourned.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he confessed he was sorry
the debate should be further protracted ; but he honed,
if it was now adjourned, it would be on the undertaking
that it would be brought to a conclusion to-morrow (this
day). If not, he should, instead of moving that the
House adjourn for the Whitsuntide holidays, be com-
pelled to move its adjournment to Monday next.
The•motion for the adjournment of the debate until
to-morrow (this day) was then put and agreed to.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
Lord MORPETH moved the further consideration of
the report
objected to its proceeding at that late
hour, especially as several Hon. Members, including
the Hon. and Learned Member for Coventry (Mr. G.
Turner), who had left the H
House, had new clauses to
propose.
Lord MORPETII said those clauses could be discus-
sed on the third reading, whic did not propose to
take until after the Whitsuntide recess.
he
i
After a short conversation, n which the Attorney-
General, Sir H. Willoughby, and Mr. Walpole took
part,

Lord MORPETII consented to postpone the further
consideration of the Bill till this chly.

Mr. WYLI) asked whether it was the intention of the
Noble Lord, after giving up the smoke prevention
clauses of this Bill, to adopt the Bill for that purpose
which bad been brought into the other House by Lord
Redesdale?

L,ird MORPETH said ho was not prepared to say
that he would adopt the whole of the clauses of that
Bill.

HIGHWAYS BILL

Sir G. GREY, in nnoyitg tl:Tesecond reading of this
Bill, said he had made some alteration in it which would
remove an objection that was made to it on the first
reading.
Mr. HENLEY hoped a distant day would be fixed fur
the Committee, in order that the Bill might be well con-
sidered by the country.
Mr. FREWEN thought that a better Bill might be
framed if the matter were referred to a Select Commit-
tee. The duties of the district surveyors to he created
by this Bill, would be as well discharged by the county
magistrates. _ _

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said the power of borrow-
ing money on mortgage of the rates was a dangerous
power. _ _

Sir G. GREY said the Bill contained such a power ;
but under the proper regulations.
Sir W. JOL•LIFFE strongly objected to the clause
which gave the power of apportioning rates amongot
several parishes.
After a few words from Mr. BANKES, the Bill was
read a second time.
DUTIES ON SPIRITS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
early in the session he had announced his intention of
introducing two measures for the sake of removing some
of the reetrictions imposed by the existing excise laws
on spirits; and ho would take this opportunity of doing
so, that the Bills might be considered at Whitsuntide.
As these were measures almost entirely of relaxation, he
hoped they would afford satisfaction to the parties inte-
rested. The duties on stone bottles, sweets, suctions,
glass, vinegar, and tiles, had been repealed; those on
paper and soap had been reduced; and a considerable
relaxation had been made in the laws affecting malt,
paper, bricks, and other articles. The beneficial effect
which had resulted from these changes was best shown
by the marked decrease which had taken place in the num-
ber of excise prosecutions. In 1832 there were 4,309 ex-
cise informations heard before magistrates; in 1847 the
number was 1,688: being a diminution of 2,621. Before
the Excise Commissioners in 1832, 974 cases were
heard; in 1847, 206; being a diminution of 768. The
informations in the Exchequer amounted, in 1842 (only
five years ago), to 183; in 1847 to 74; being a diminu-
tion of 109. This showed that the laws were adminis-
tered with as much consideration as possible. The Bills
he had now to introduce referred only to spirits. The
first related to warehousing spirits without payment of
duty, both for home consumption and exportation. In
England this was not permitted, but it was in Scotland
and Ireland. The first Bill would put the English dis-
tillers on the same footing. It would also give the
Scotch distiller power to warehouse Ills spirits without
payment of duty in any part of the kingdom. As
to spirits for exportation, the present law gives an
undue advantage to the foreign trade. A Dutch dis-
tiller might warehouse his spirits here, take them
out when he thought proper, and then export
them to our colonies. He therefore proposed
to give the home distiller the power of
warehousing rectified, but not sweetened, spirits. It
was impossible to allow the spirits to be sweetened before
they were put into bond, but they might be sweetened
in bond. The only exports of spirits took place from
Scotland, from which 90,000 gallons were exported. He
proposed to allow spirits for home consumption to be
equally bonded in the three countries. With regard to
spirits for export he proposed to allow them to be bonded
in the Customs warehouses, but in that case they must
be exported. and could not be taken out for home con-
sumption. So far as related to the first 11111. The second
measure related to the present system of permit survey.
In conformity with the report of the Commissioners of
Excise inquiry, who stated that the permit system was
attended with great inconveniences without any corre-
sponding advantage, he proposed to reserve to tLe Board
of Excise the power of examining spirits in stock or in
hand only in circumstances which would justify a sus-
picion of fraud. He proposed to relieve the spirit
dealer from the necessity of permits, and from the sur-
vey of the excise officers•. They would, however, be re-
quired to keep certain accounts of stock, and to send a
certificate signed by themselves when spirits were sent
from one place to another. The only other important
provision in the Bill was, that it permitted to persons
who now took out a 101. license to sell a less quantity of

liquors than they now could on their taking; out a sup-
plementary 51. license. The least quantity of liquors
which they could now send out was two gallons ; but,
under this Bill, they could sell any quantity not less
than an imperial quart. Every dealer would be re-
quired to have a book in which the quantity of spirits
sent out was to be inserted. This would be in the na-
ture of an invoice. He intended to apply this 'provision
to the three countries, although he confessed he had
doubts whether it ought to be extended to Ireland, in
consequence of the illicit distillation which was carried
on there.

The resolutions having been read,
Mr. COWAN would nut oppose the resolutions, but
he did not know whether the measure would be satis-
factory. He expected that the Right Hon. Gentleman
would have announced an intention to alter the licensing
system, which was productive of much immorality in
Scotland; but he was sorry to find that that was not so.
He must also express his dissatisfaction that no relaxa-
tion was to take place with respect to that body of ma-
nufacturers to which he belonged, and that they were to
be still subject to the delay and vexation of the excise
regulations. He wished to know whether a full allow-
ance would be made for the waste of spirits in bond?
Mr. CALLAGHAN was glad that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was about to relax the excise regulations
with respect to spirits.. He hoped the Right lion. Gen-
tleman would allow the distiller for the whole of the
waste of spirits in bond, and that he would place the
Irish distiller in the same position as the Scotch distiller.
Mr. G-ROGAN hoped that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man would attend to the suggestion of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Cork, and place Ireland in the same position as
Scotland. _ _ _

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would allow for the waste of spirits in bond intended for
exportation; but not for spirits in bond for home con-
sumption.
The resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to
be reported to the House this day.
Mr. BROTHERTON here rose to move that the
House adjourn, but no notice being taken, he resumed
his seat.

IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT (IRELAND) BILL.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE moved that the House do go
into Committee on this 13111.

Mr. GROGAN really must object to going on at that
hour of the night. _ _ _

Colonel RAWDON said there were 1,700 persons
languishing in prison in Ireland for small debts, who
would be released if this Bill passed, and he therefore
hoped Mr. Brotherton would put his nightcap on his
head, and permit the Bill to be proceeded with forth-
with.—(Laughter.)
Mr. BROTHERTON objected to enter on an Irish
debate at that hour.
The House, however, resolved itself into Committee,
and the various clauses of the Bill were agreed to with-
out discussion, and with a few unimportant amend-
ments.
Mr. GROGAN urged that the operation of the Bill
should be postponed from the Ist of November to the Ist
of January next.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said tha statement of his
Gallant Friend behind him (Colonel Rawdon) disin-
clined him to postpone bringing the Bill into operation.
Mr. GROGAN said, the only remedy the traders of
Dublin had against a debtor was the remedy of arrest
and imprisonment.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE thought these poor debtors
might have the privilege of spending their Christmas
out of prison. He declined to give way on this point.
Bill to be reported 15th June.
GAME CERTIFICATES FOR KILLING HARES

BILL.
On motion for the third reading of this Bill,
Colonel SIBTHORP moved that the House do now
adjourn.
The motion was not seconded, and the circumstance
gave rise to some cheering.
Colonel SIBTHORP then said he should oppose pro-
ceeding with the Bill at that hour as vexatious.—(Oh.)
Ile was astonished to find his lion. Friend the Member
for Sunderland permitting the Bill to proceed at that
late hour.—(Renewed cries of " Ob.") He did not wish
to obstruct the business—(oh)—but he should move that
the Bill be read that day six months.
This amendment was not seconded, and also fell to the
ground.
The SPEAKER then put the question that the Bill be
read a third time.

Colonel SIBTHOEP—I shall divide the House.

Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the gallery
was cleared, but no Member being found to act as teller
with the Gallant Member for Lincoln, no division took
place.
On re-admission to the gallery,
Mr. FRE WEN was moving the following clause :
" Provided always, and be it further enacted, that no-
thing in this Act contained shall be construed to extend
to allow any person or persons not having a game certi
&ate to use any engine or wire, commonly called a
snare, or any trap of any description for the purpose of
killing or taking any game or hares."
On the motion that the clause be brought up,
Mr. HUDSON defended himself from Colonel Sib-
thorp's complaint that he had thrown him over. He
did not disapprove of the Bill, or he should have been
very happy to do anything ho could to co-operate with
his Gallant Friend.

Mr. COLVILE objected to the clause, and hoped it
would not be pressed.

The clause was put and negatived; and the Bill was
:hen read a third time.

FRAUDS IN THE SALE OF BREAD.
Mr. SPO3NER (for Mr. Bankes) moved for leave to
bring in a 13111 to provide more effectually for checking
frauds in the sale of bread and other articles of provi-
sion.—Leave granted.
The House adjourned at Half-past One.

The Observer, of Sunday, June 11, will give all
the particulars connected with the Chartists' movements,
the prosecutions, examinations, and commitments, of the
principal leaders. The extensive publication of The
Observer commences at 6 o'clock, Sunday mornings ;
Monday's edition of The Observer, best for the country
awl abroad, Monday afternoons at 4.
The Dowager Duchess of Roxburgh and family,
Colonel Gordon, Captain Holt, R.N., &c.. were amongst
the numerous passengers who arrived here yesterday
morning by the Antwerp Company's steamer Antwerpen,
Captain Jackson ; the sea passage occupied ;seven hours
only.