The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-18 00:00:00

kind, for they could only be consulted on questions of
law arising on the proceedings of the House in its
legislative or judicial character. As to the fears of the
Right Rev. Plehte, he would say that all the Bill was
intended to accomplish was to place the law clearly and
undoubtedly on the footing on which the Right Rev.
Prelate stated it now rested, and to make it lawful for
her Majesty to appoint an ambassador to the Court of
Rome should she so think fit, on the advice of her re-
sponsible Ministers.—(Hear, hear.)
The Duke of RICHMOND said he was prepared to
vote against the second reading of this Bill, for in his
opinion there never had been a time less fitting than the
present to make any further concession to the Roman
Catholics. This measure would be considered a con-
cession by the Roman Catholics of Ireland, who, with
their priests, had already taught this country the lesson,
that the more that was given the more they demanded;
the greater the concession the more ungrateful they
were for what was done for them He entirely con-
curred with his Noble Friend who had moved that this
Bill be read a second time this day six months; at the
same time he asked his Noble Friend not to divide the
House on this occasion, because it was clear from the
state of the House the Government had a majority pre-
sent, and a division showing that majority might in-
crease the alarm throughout the country. He felt that
this measure ought not to pass—he entered his protest
against it, and though he was willing to go into Com-
mittee for the amendment of the Noble Duke (Duke of
Wellington), and for that prohibiting any ecclesiatic
being received as an ambassador from the Court of
Rome, nothing would induce him to go one step further
with the Bill.—(llear, hear.)
The Earl of ELDON said, as yet he had not heard a
single valid reasun why this Bill even as amended im the
manner proposed should pass into a law. He admitted
the importance of the measure, but thought, at least, it
ought to be postponed until the next session of Par-
liament, in order that time might be afforded for a
distinct surrender by the Pope of the claim made by his
predecessors of a right to interfere with the temporal
rights of the Sovereign of this realm. This surrender
the country had a rigt to expect to be made, and, with
these views, if the question went to a division, he should
give his vote against the second reading of the Bill.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS thought the vast num-
bers of Roman Catholics who were to be found in every
part of the British dominions certainly did render it
most expedient that every facility should be given to the
Government to hold communications with the Pope,
whom they acknowledged as their head. He hesitated
not to say, that if such relations as it was the object of
this Bill to establish had existed years ago, we should
not have heard so much of the violent conduct of certain
parties recently in Ireland. It was impossible for cases
not to arise in some part of her Majesty's dominions, in
reference to Roman Catholics, in which a consultation
with the Pope on behalf the British Government would
have a most beneficial effect on the peace and security
of these realms. He did not at all participate in
the apprehensions of the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley).
Those apprehensions, in his opinion, were perfectly idle
and chimerical. It was competent to the Pope to send
any number of missionaries, Jesuits or others, members
of religious orders, to this country at the present time.
Re knew perfectly well that there were many such in this
country at the present time. The agents of Rome were
busily engaged in this country, but if the chief agent
were regularly appointed an ambassador to the British
Court, there would then be less danger than there was
at present, because all his acts would be more closely
watched and better known.—(Hear, hear.) Other Pro-
testant countries had long ago taken the step proposed
by this Bill. It should be recollected that this was not
,a Bill to compel her Majesty to hold communication
with Rome ; if at any time it should be found expedient
to cut eff such communication, it would be perfectly com-
petent to her Majesty to do so on the reasonable repre-
sentations of the British Government.—(Hear, hear.)
Their Lordships- might be aware that a gentleman
professing the Roman Catholic religion (Mr. More
O'Ferrall) had been recently appointed Governor
of Malta, and it appeared that some differences
existed between the Roman Catholic Bishop of that
island and the Government. Now, their Lordships
must perceive the great advantage which would arise to
her Majesty being allowed to hold direct communica-
tions with the Pope on the subject of those differences.
The Pope, on being appealed to by the British Govern-
ment, might interfere for the purpose of requiring the
subordinate bishop to accede to the wishes of the British
Government.—(Hear, bear.) He trusted that their
Lordships would not sanction the introduction of the
threatened clause with regard to the exclusion of an
ecclesiastic from the office of ambassador from the
Court of Rome, because the proposition was most mon-
strous.—(Hear, hear.) None of the other Courts to
which Rome sent a representative repaired any such
stipulation. With regard to what had fallen from the
Noble Earl, as to upholding in all its integrity the su-
premacy of her Majesty, he heartily concurred therein,
and would be prepared to support any clause that
plight. be deemed necessary for preserving it to the
fullest extent.—(Cheers.)
Lord REDESDALE did not think it desirable to enter
at preient into a discussion of the proposed amendment
of the Noble Earl as to the exclusion of ecclesiastics.
The Pope had claimed supreme authority in this country
in temporal as well as spiritual matters, and it behoved
their Lordships to watch the efforts of Rome with ex-
treme jealousy. Before the Bill was allowed to pass this
country ought to receive an assurance that the temporal
authority to which he alluded was no longer claimed by
Rome. For the purpose of abolishing any pretensions
of that sort, he had prepared a clause which he should
propose in Committee. It was to the following effect:—
" Provided always, and be it enacted, that it shall not
be lawful for her Majesty to receive, any such Ambas-
sador, Envoy Extraordinary, Minister Plenipotentiary,
or other officer, until the Court of Rome shall have
declared that it cloth not claim, and distinctly disown,
any temporal or civil jurisdiction, power, superiority, or
pre-eminence, direct or indirect, within this realm."
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE replied. With refe-
rence to what had fallen from the Noble Duke opposite
(the Duke of Richmond) he begged to say that this Bill
offered no concession to the Pope. It was a concession
to expediency, to state necessity ; it would afford facili-
ties to this country to defend and assert its best inte-
rests--(Hear, hear)—and that was the ground on which
it was recommended to the Legislature. Let it not go
forthito the public that this measure made any conces-
sion to the Roman Catholics. With regard to the ex-
pressions of the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) in reference
to Lord Minto's mission to Rome, he was also anxious to
say that there was not one act connected with that mis-
sion, no one letter or instruction given to the Earl of
Minto, no one act done by the Earl of Minto, which he
(the Marquis of Lansdowne) was not prepared to defend,
and which he was not prepared to statelad been done for
the advantage and interests of the country, and which,
if it were to be done again he should not be prepared to
do.--(Hear.) That very mission, so dwelt upon by the
Noble Lord, to his (the Marquis of Lansdowne's) mind,
seemed the best, the strongest, and the most unanswer-
able that could be selected for illustrating the paramount
necessity of this Bill.—(Cheers.) By Earl Minto's pre-
sence in Switzerland a horrid civil war, which might have
agitated the whole of Europe, was prevented.
Lord STANLEY—That has nothing to do with this

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE contended that it bad
reference to the very object for which the Bill had been
introduced. The Right Rev. Prelate near him (the
Bishop of Winchester) said the Government were
already enabled to do that which they sought to accum-
plish by this Bill, and therefore the measure was alto-
dether unnecessary. There,was, however, this important
istinction to be drawn, that the Government sought to
do in an open and avowed manner, and by means
which were open to the influence of public opinion,
that which was now effected secretly, indirectly,
end circuitously.—(Hear, hear.) The mission of Earl
unto had been referred to. That Noble Lord was
accredited to Switzerland, he was accredited to Florence
and was now accredited to Naples. In passing from
Florence to Naples, ho certainly did, but not without
design, pass some time at Rome, and the necessity of
his Staying there without a distinct mission was one of
the strongest reasons for passing a measure which
would enable us to enter into direct and explicit diplo-
matic communication with the Court of Rome.—(llear,
hear.) On these grounds, he (the Marquis of Lans-
downe) hoped their Lordship would consent to the
second reading of the Bill. If their Lordships should
consent to the second reading he should fix to-mor-
row (Friday) for going into Committee, and he
thought after the time that had already been afford 4 d
for considering the measure that would not 130 too early
a day.—(Hear.)
The Duke of NEWCASTLE withdrew his amend-
ment, and the Bill was then read a second time, and
ordered to be committed to-morrow (this day).
Their Lordships then adjourned.

ROUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 17.
The SPEAKER took the Chair a few minutes before
Four o'clock.

MARLOW ELECTION.
Sir J. PAKINGTON reported from the Com-
m itten appointed to try the merits of the petition of
certain electors of the borongh of Great Marlow
Against the return of Mr. Thomas Price Williams
and Colonel Brownlow Knox, that they had decided
that both these gentlemen had been duly elected.
THE WINDOW DUTIES.
Mr. MACGREGOR presented a petition from
acboolmasters in Glasgow, praying for the repeal of
the window duties.
Lord ALFRED PAGET presented a petition
to the same effect from Lichfield.
THE DEFENCES OF THE COUNTRY.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented several petitions
against any increase in our war establishments.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. Wyld,
from Bodmin ; by Dr. Bowring ; by Mr. Bouverie ;
by Mr. Cobden, from the West Riding of Yorkshire,
and other places; and by Mr. Osborne, from Staines.

HEALTII OF TOWNS.
Mr. BUSFEILD presented a petition from the
inayor and aldermen of Bradford in favour of this

JEWISH DISABILITIES BILL.
I3OWRING presented several petitions in
favour of this Bill.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. Cowan,
from Dalkeith ; by an Hon. Member, from New-
castle; by another Hon. Member, from Portarlington ;
and by Lord A. Paget (3). from Lichfield.
ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATE DUTY.
BPI'. HODGES presented a petition from four
ber.A_rx,. N.
solicitors, praying for the repeal of this duty.
. MEMIIER presented . . , •
considerable num-
/LIZ/ petitions to the same effect, from solicitors in
Esneld, Market Drayton, Ileretord, Gosport,
Ely' 1411411; and other places.