The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-25 00:00:00

Select Committee appointed to try. the merits such election,
intended to be objected to, giving the heads
were required by themselves or agents todeolfiver in to the
the list of voters
in the eveningof the objections, and distinguishing the same against the
sin
the o'clock
names of the voters. It further enacted that these
objections couldo
f tnhoetdabyehefloordegtehde thannlaotmerination o
Com-
mittee. Now, how did he stand under this Act. 240 elec.
tors had voted for him, and not less than 96 had been objected
to.—(Hear' and laughter.) What he asked, then, was his
position ? The fair meaning of the clause, he apprehended
was, that they would give to every man accused of bribery the
chance of meeting the charge. He trusted that the House in
that case would give him the same chance of meeting the
charge that would be given in any tribunal in the country,
He was in the meantime as ignorant as any Hon. Member in
the House what particular charge would be brought against
him, or what voter would be objected to, and, under those cir-
cumstances, he would put it to the House whether this was the
fair course to adopt with respect to a Member of that House ?
As he had said before, he conceived that the meaning of
the clause was, that the parties objecting should have
stated their case distinctly, and have at once in-
formed them what charges they intended to bring forward.
He mentioned this, not so much for hissown sake as for their
guidance in future election cases, for how was it pos-
sible for him to meet objections when he did not
even know what witnesses would be called against him?
His only intention in rising was to submit his ease to the
House, and to show how the parties who opposed his return to
Parliament were disposed to act towards him in the matter.
He would not, however, trespass on the House further than
to say, that he was absolutely in the dark as to the exact
charges which were to be brought against him, and that it
would be to the interest of Members placed in a similar
position, if the House would consider whether the Act of
Parliament ought not to be clearer than it was, so that
Members whose retucn might be petitioned against might be
put in possession of the allegations which would be brought
against them in Committee.
Lord G. SOMERSET, who spoke in so low a tons as to
be hardly audible in the gallery, said he understood the Hon.
Member objected to the clause as it now stood, but it was im-
possible to avoid the inconvenience which it imposed on Mem-
bers whose return was petitioned against.
Mr. J. COLLETT said the Hon. Member might think him-
self fortunate that so small a number of those who voted for
him at his election had been petitioned aeainst. On one occa-
sion his return was petitioned against, when the whole of his
supporters were objected to.—( Laughter. )
Mr. O'CONNELL said, when his return for Dublin was
petitioned against, 4,000 of his supporters were objected to.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said, if he understood the Hon. Member
rightly, he wished to obtain a list of the names of the persons
whom he was accused of having bribed.—( Laughter, during
which Mr. Cochrane dissented.) Then he apprehended many
Hon. Members had so understood him ; but it appeared that
his charge was against the law as it stood, and not against in-
dividuals, and because 96 out of his 210 supporters had been
served with notices of objections, of the exact nature of which
be complained that he had not received information. if it nan
been his misfortune to have bribed—(Laughter)-96 persons,
he:( Sir R. H. Inglis) could not understand why he objected to
the serving of notices, or their objecting to their votes on that
account.
Mr. B. COCHRANE appealed to the well-known candour
of the Right Hon. Baronet, and was at a loss to know how he
could have so understood him. He had always understood
that the Act provided it, the affording of opportunities to Mem-
bers whose returns had been objected to, in order that they
might knew the charges against them, and to provide rebut-
ting evidence. This opportunity was even given to criminals
in all the tribunals of the country.
The SPEAKER called the Hon. Member to order, and he
resumed his seat.
Mr. AGLION BY understood the Hon. Member to object
to the clause in the Bill, and did not believe that the Hon. Ba-
ronet the Member for Oxford intended to say that he admitted
there was any ground for the charge of bribery. Every Mem-
ber present had so understood him. He thought there was no
means of getting rid of the difficulty except by means of costs.
Lord J. MANNERS would be glad to know what the real
intentions of the framers of the Act were, and thought a clause
so incautiously worded ought to undergo some revision.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said they had fallen
into a most irregular dircussion, for the House
had nothing whatever to do with the question before
them. ft was for the Committee down stairs to de-
cide whether the notice was valid or not, or whether the
notice was so framed as to be an evasion of the Act of Parlia-
ment. The Act itself put a check upon improper objections
by giving the Committee power to award costs, and that was
the only re=sible means by which the Legislature could guard
against improper and frivolous objections.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK was glad to find that his Hon. and
Learned Friend had now so much confidence in the law of
Election Committees, and trusted that this increased confidence
arose out of reforms which had taken place since a memorable
instance in which his Hen, and Learned Friend and himself
were engaged.—(Hear and laughter.) Both of them had
good reason to recollect that instance, and if he
remembered rightly the case was precisely similar
to that of his Honourable Friend the Member
for Bridport. He remembered that there was a great number
of objections, many of which turned out to be of so frivolous
and trivial a character that the Committee declined to entertain
them. He thought Hon. Members should, for their own pro-
tection, see that the law was properly amended so as to prevent
the recurrence of such cases as these. The Hon. Member for
Bridport deserved the thanks of the House for calling atten-
tion to this subject.
The question that the Committee should meet at eleven
o'clock to-morrow was then put and agreed to.
Mr. O'CONNELL, who spoke in a tone so low as not to be
heard in the gallery, was understood to move for certain returns
connected with the present state of Ireland.
Captain LAYA RD moved for a return showing the number
of men who had volunteered to regiments in India from the
last five regiments that bad been ordered home from that
country. The Hon. and Gallant Member also moved that
the petition from Chelsea Pensioners, complaining of deduction
of five per cent. (presented April 21) be printed.
WIGAN ELECTION.
On the motion of Mr. BRIGHT, the minutes of evidence
taken before the Wigan Election Committee were ordered to
be laid before the House.
COLONEL STODDART AND CAPTAIN CONOLLY.
Mr. B. COCHRAN rose to put a question to the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government relative to the
families of the two unfortunate gentlemen who lost their lives
at Bokhara, namely, Colonel Stoddart and Captain Conolly,
Those officers were employed in the service of the Government
at the time they lost their lives in Bokhara, and therefore he
(Mr. Cochrane) was of opinion—he was sure that it would
only be an act of justice towards the families of those officers to
give some tribute of respect to them. He was not aware
whether Colonel Stoddart had surviving relatives, but he was
sure that Captain Conolly had, and he (Mr. Cochran.) hoped
that some provision would be made for them.
Sir R. PEEL said that the only sum which was left dis-
posable in the hands of the Crown, as rewards for public services,
was 1,2001. per annnm ; that 1501. per annum had been allowed
to the two surviving sisters of Colonel Stoddart, and he was
not aware that there were any surviving relatives of Captain
Conolly; if there were, he was sure that that very eminent
and wealthy body the East India Company would, in accord-
ance with their accumstorned liberality, act with what they
considered due regard to their servants.—(Hear, hear.)
He regretted very much that there was not a larger stun
left for this purpose in the hands of her Majesty's Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.)

opinion heing ,given, and would enable Government to act with
confidence. The three gentlemen selected with that view were
to follow the instructions given to them, and they had been
requested to consider how far practicable, and if practicable,
how far it would be advisable to apply Dr. Reid's system a
ventilation to the New Houses of Parliament, and t : all the
subordinate offices. Also whether the application of the
system should be restricted to the New Houses of Parliament
generally, or to a more limited portion, and whether it would be
of advantage to apply the system to different portions of the
building separately and independently. The Government were
also anxious to ascertain how far Dr. Reid's system was
com-
patible with the rendering the building fire-proof. These
op
inions
they had, lastly, been desired, according to the
they formed on these points, to report how
the building as were necessary for Dr. Reid
* would be
fur-
nished to him, and whether further informationhat he
manner. Tre-
ears plans of
had been uch
quisite, and to what extent, and i
geenet lw
known as an architect, who had construe
gentlemen selected were Mr. Hardwineketwed a
th
in Lincoln's Inn ; Professor Graham, a n new buildings
welt
rofessor of chemistry
experience, and who had
paid great attention to the r
tilaetaion of mines, &c. At the
in the London University ; and Mtr. George Stephenson, who
was known as an engineer of g
be had not come to the determi-
nationassure their Lordships that
t very mature and anxious con •
without first plush the House might ivteontject to this course, but he could
he had just stateddlt that, on taking upon himself this
w
sideratiorn
consideration of their Lordships. He had reason to believe
responsibilitya,na
he hesould at once submit the matter to the
d not take up more than a very few dais,
that the inquiry
gentlemen should have been cornm u-
and they should reed
an answer in that time. When the
opinion of these g
.est ,s
niceted to her Majesty's Government, if it should
be necessary to take such a course as would in-
terfere with the arrangement already existing between
the Government and Dr. Reid, or if those gentlemen should
prescribe a course in any way at variance with the plans already
existing, it would be right that the Government, before any
steps were taken in the matter, should state their intentions to
Parliament, to give an opportunity to Noble Lords and Hon.
Members of making any remarks they might think fir.
He thought that it was better that he should fortify himself
with the opinions of the gentlemen he had mentioned, before
coming down to the House to propose that they should go on
at all hands and risks, or relieve the burden from one or other
of the gentlemen through whose miskprehensions these delays
were occasioned.
Lord BROUGHAM said that no man in that House could
doebt that the Noble Lord had given not only a clear and sate
factory explanation, but that he had adepted the very b,•st
course he could under the circumstances. The inquiry was
now brought within a reasonable compass, and he thought
the course proposed by the N. ble Lord the very hest that cou'.d
be adopted. Their Lordships at present suffered most severs ly
under the processes of Dr. Reid—(Laughter)—he meant under
the processes of ventilation brought into use by that gentle-
man ; and for himself he could only say that, sitting there from
ten o'clock in the morning until five at night, he never suffered
more from cold in his life than he did while attending to his
legal duties. On that day he had suffered most severely.
What the reason was he could not say; whether it was that
addieional fuel had been put ea—(Laughter)—or whether there
had been a complete stoppage of external air—or perhaps it
might have arisen from the want of their Lordships' presence.
At all events, he could not say from what particular cause the
cold had arisen, but cold it certainly had been. He could
assure the House that the Noble Marquis had not exaggerated
when he had spoken of the severe services of the law Lords.
It was diametrically opposed to the fact that they could not get
into the House within a short period, for the whole evidence
before the Committee up-stairs proved that they might have
got into their new House in eight or ten months at the
furtherest. He did not mean that they were to wait until
every nook, and cranny, and crevice, and rat-hole in the House
was ventilated.—( Laughter. ) He thought that the plan of
ventilation under which he had suffered that morning was the
most xtravagant principle that was ever brought before the
notice of Parliament. He trusted that the inquiry would go
on, and he was sure that no better men could Le chosen than
the men named by the Noble Lord. He hoped he should not
be considered as detracting from the opinion of the Committee
if he added that some of the questions submitted to them
answered themselves. There was no difficulty whatever in coming to a conclusion, and that before many days. He took
no part with either of the individuals implicated in this quarrel,
but he considered it was their bounden duty to see that i.o
squabble should interfere so as to detract from the progress of
this public work. He had heard the other day, when up-
stairs, with the greatest indignation, that the works had been
su3pended for several months, in consequence of the disputes
between the two parties. Such a state of things should be put
an end to.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord CAMPBELL considered the Noble and Learned Lord
had been too severe in the speech which he bad just made. He
would not enter into the controversy between Mr. Barry and
Dr. Reid. He would throw no blame on Mr. Barry, who might
have conducted the works with perfect skill and the greatest
care, but he must say that the Noble and Learned Lord was
prejudiced in the case. The fact was, the ventilation was per-
fectly successful. They had only to look to the House of
Common 3, where this ventilation had been most successful ;
both in respect to the temperature, heat, and air, it was the best
place of legislature ever built. He hoped that the sneers of
the Noble and Learned Lord would not be allowed to prejudice
Dr. Reid. He admitted at the same time that while the ven-
tilation of the House of Commons had been perfectly successful,
the ventilation of their Lordships' House had been unsuccessful.
At one time they were in Greenland, at another in Bencoolen.
Noble Lords who came there from five to seven to listea to
amusing speeches, such as they had heard, could not speak of
the matter as he did, who sat there on Scotch appeals often
for six hours in the early part of the day. Therefore he lived
that they would have some comaatision on them, and that no
relaxation would be made in their efforts in order to get the
new chambers.
Lord REDESDALE hoped that, though they admitted the
importance of getting the House ready as soon as possible, they
should take care not to manage matters as they had hitherto
been done. The House of Commons had only to say 6. We
want a c,rtsin number of committee-rooms by a certain day,"
and it was done directly. Now these committee-room; were
net in a state o t greater forwardness, when that ord. r
was issued, than their Lordships' House. In fact their House
was now in such a state that it only required the completion of
the ventilating apparatus ; for the flooring and ceiling and the
four walls had been finished ; and with regard to the ventila-
tion, he believed that there were two chambers for that pur-
pose, one beneath the flooring of the House and the ether over
the roof, and the apparatus required nothing more now than a
permanent fitting-up. If those fittings-up should b • made in
one of the chambers he had mentioned, and should be found
l not to answer, then the only inconvenience that could arise
was the removing of those fittings from one of the chambers
that he had mentioned to the other. If, therefore, their
Lordships did not come to some resolution now upon the sub-
ject, they need not expect to get into their House before the
next two years.
On the motion of the Earl of ELLENBOROUGH,
several Bills w.-re advanced a stage, and the House adjourned.

Friends around hint. But he felt anxious to know what were
the principles which would be adopted for providieg food for
the starving people—and the question was anxiously put by
men of every party, without any distinction as to their opinions.
With respect to the supplies of Indian meal, he must beg to
observe that those supplies were at present totally inadequate
to the necessity that existed. The next substitute was oats—
the substitute to which the people were most accustomed. Now
it was a fact well known that the price of oats had been con-
tinually rising, and that within the last two years, the rate had
become at least one-third higher than it was before. At
Limerick, which was one of the largest places for the sale of
oats, the price of oats at present was Is. per stone, when it
was well known that Bd. per stone was a price that would suffi-
ciently remunerate the farmer. Now, with respect to oats, he
thought that Hon. Members opposite must consent to dis-
pense with the law for three months. If they did so, the
amount of loss to them in any way_ or to their supporters
could not be considerable. With respect to wheat,
there would be no reason for such an alteration, for he
believed that wheat had not risen in price pro-
portionate with oats, and it was not largely used in the
support of the population of Ireland. Considering all these
circa-nstances, he thought that the Hon. Gentlemen opposite
might accede to his request, for if it were necessary he would
read a long extract from the catalogue of the miseries which
the Irish people were now suffering; and he would, therefore,
ask the Noble Lord ( Lord G. Bentinck) for an answer to the
question, as to whether they would support her Majesty's
Government in a suspension of the corn-laws for three months
as regarded Ireland.
Lord G. BENTINCK begged to thank the Hon. Gentle-
man for the courtesy with which he had preferred the question
which he had just now laid before the H .use. Although
there was some reason for surprise at its being put to an
isolated Member, yet he would admit at the same time that,
though the course was unusual, there was sorn.whing of pro-
priety about it, when he recollected that the pasty with whom
he had the honour to act, although a minority, amounted to
112 in number, He could not forget that it was the party
who had placed the present Minister at the head of affairs,
and that it at one time comprised 340 members of that House.
Neither did he overlook the fact that, though broken in its
numbers, it still constituted, when taken with the Irish mem-
bers, a majority. Under these circumstances, then, he was
prepared to give an answer to the question, and he trusted
the House would excuse him if, in doing so, he tres-
psesed at some length upon their attention. 'The question was
whether the party with whom he acted would support her Ma-
jesty's Government in a suspension of the corn-laws as re-
garded Ireland for three months? The Hon. Gentleman had
read a long catalogue of calamities now afflicting the Irish pert-
ple, which it was most distressing to hear: It was painful to
hear such a catalogue at any time, even though its cause
should have only a temporary existence, but it was still more
painful to think that this statement of distress was an annual
tale of sorrow. —( Hear, hsar. ) He learned from the report
of the Earl of Devon's Commission, as well as from the Hon.
and Learned Member for the county of Cork, that in ordinary
years there were never less than 2 300,000 destitute poor in
1: eland. But there was nothing in the long account of miseries
sshich the Hon. Member had read to induce him or any other
man in that House to suppose that the distress now existing in
Ireland was more severe than that which was usually
felt in the course of this season of the year. He would state
to the House the reason why he thought that no measure for
the repeal of the cern-laws, or even for the surpension of the
corn-laws, would afford the slightest relief to the people of
Ireland ; and any measure that had been proposed by the
Hon. Gentleman opposite would not be listened to; but he
(Lord Bentinck) would maintain that any measure proposed
by that Hon. Gentleman, who ruled, as he might say, in the
hearts of the people of Ireland, was one entitled to the con-
sideration and respect of this House. The protectionist party
did not feel that the measure for the suspension of the corn-
laws would afford any relief to the people of Ireland. He be-
lieved that he spoke the real sentiments of all those Gentle-
men aronnd him, when he stated, if any measure for the
relief of Ireland should be brought forward by any Irish Mem-
ber, it would have their cordial support. They felt that it
was not the want of food in Ireland that occasioned the present
distress, they believed it waa the want of money.—( Hear. )
The want of money was the real and only cause of dietress in
Ireland, and they thought that was the local applicatory remedy
that ought to be applied ; and noney must be afforded in the
payment of labour, as the means of enabling the working
classes of Ireland to purchase food and other necessaries. That
was the kind of measure which they thought her Majesty's
Ministers ought to have introduced into that House. They
were willing to remove all fear of a diminution in the supply of
food by throwing open the ports of Ireland, but in doing so
they would enter their solemn protest that such a measure
would not afford the slighest relief to the people of Ireland.
The Government might cajole the people of;lreland, they might
make them satisfied for a time, by telling them that the repeal
of the eorn-laws would be a relief to Ireland ; but they (the
protectionists would do no such thing, they would hold out no
such fabled delusions to Ireland. What, he would ask, was the
state of things in Ireland ? And what was the state of the
London markets within the last three months as
compared with the markets in Ireland ? Why, 260,800
quarters of oats had been imported in that City alone.
from the markets in Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman had
spoken of the city of Limerick ; he could tell the Hon. Gen-
tleman that 34,000 quarters of oats had been brought from
Limerick into the London market. Was it possible then, by sus-
pending the operation of the corn-laws in Ireland, the people
could be supplied with food at a cheaper rate than at present,
when it was a notorious fact that the price of oats in Cork,
which is the highest market in Ireland, was lower than the
price of foreign oats, exclusive of duty in the London market ?
Under these circumstances he would ask, how was it possible
that foreign oats could find their way into Ireland ? If the
law was suspended, corn would be virtually excluded. The
price of foreign eats, without duty, averaged from ls. 9d. per
quarter less in London than the pri e quoted in the Irish mar-
kets. From a circular which he held in his hand, he would
quote the comparative prices of oats. The average price of
foreign oats, which were equal in quality to English oats, was
245. 6d. in Mark-lane; the average price of oats of all descrip-
tions in the Cork market, up to April 18, was 225. 3d. The
average price of oats of all descriptions in Mark-lane, exclusive
of duties, was 225. 6d., being 9d. per quarter higher than the
price of oats in Cork. It was clear, then, that it must he
utterly impossible, that by a repeal of the corn-laws, or by a
suspension of the corn-laws, one single grain of foreign oats
could find its way into the Irish market. And the same facts
would apply as to the price of Irish wheat. In the city of
Cork, the average price of wheat was 495. 6d. ; foreign wheat
in the metropolitan market averaged 455. 4d., exclusive of
duty. That was a difference of 4s. 2d., which was to the ad-
vantage of the Irish grower. How then could any suspension of
the corn-laws, or any abrogation of the corn-laws, be a means
of introducing one single grain, either of wheat or of oats, into
the Irish market. It would probably be admitted that there was
no pat t of Ireland in which greater distress exists than in the
county of Cork. There was the largest number of persons in
distress in that county. He would give the House a compara-
tive statement of the prices of grain that were brought
into the market of Cork during the present and previous
years. It would appear that the aggregate amount of grain
that was brought into the Cork market amounted, in the year
1844, to 344,547 barrels. In the year 1845 the amount was
337,624 barrels; but in the present year the amount had risen
to 366,384 barrels—( Hear, hear) s ,
—ana tney were told that the
people of Cork were starving for want of food. No such
thing, they were starving for want of money to purchase it,
and for the want of that employment which would furnish
them the means to purchase it. It was not at all a surprising
thing that there were riots in Ireland. If her Majesty's Mi-
nisters rang the alarum bell, and told the people of Ireland that
they must starve, was it astonishing that the people should
rice up in remonstrance against such fearful information ? It
was not surprising, under these circumstances, that in one
case they should carry off twenty-three carts loaded with meal,
and in another case illegally posse's themselves of one hundred
tons of flour, and should rise up in arms against its going out
of the country.—( Hear, hear.) Why, the Queen't Ministers
had told them that famine and starvation was among them.
taut what was the real truth of the question? He did not be-
lieve scarcity was so prevalent as had been represented,
and he had it upon no less authority than the
Earl of Shannon, who was a resident landowner
in the county of Cork, that at all events in his
vicinity scarcity did not exist ; and that, although he
(the Earl of Shannon) admitted that great distress prevailed,
yet that the distress arose not altogether from the want of
potatoes, but from the people holding them back, and refusing
to sell them, in the expectation of obtaining a higher price.
Her Majesty's Ministers had told the country from November
last that a grievous famine existed ; they had reiterated the
cry that the potato famine was rampant in England, and what
was the consequence? As far as his own experience went the
price in his own country in December arose to 111. 6d. per
sack ;it had now fallen to ss. 6d. per sack. The price during
last year was Is. 4d. per bushel, the price during the present
year was Bd. per bushel. He could show the House, from a
t
statement he had in his hand, the comparative prices of po-
tatoes in Yorkshire. It would appear from that paper that a
farmer who had refused to sell 200 sacks of potatoes in the
month of December last year at Ils. 6d. per sack, was now
not able to obtain 2s. 6d. per sack. He had heard a similar
account from a gentleman in Huntingdonshire, who informed
him that on a recent occasion a sale of potatoes took place in
Caldecot, in Bedfordshire, that the price realised was 2s. 10d.,
with six months' credit, while last year the price realised was
3s. 10d., at three months' credit, That gentleman
further told him he could have any quantity of
potatoes at Is. 4d. per bushel. He (Lord G. Bentinck)
was himself a grower of potatoes in Sussex. In November
last he carried his crop. He was told that the price of pota-
toes in Chichester market was 7s. 6d., and was further in-
formed, that if he held his potatoes to the month of April, he
would realise 10s. 6d. The month of April had now arrived,
and the price had fallen to 6s. It was clearly natural that the
price of potatoes should rise, and not fall, as the year advanced,
but their high prices had been greatly increased by the false
alarm which had been raised by her Majesty's Ministers, and
the people of Ireland were suffering from the same cry. He
had recently read in a Cork journal a story of a parcel of old
women who were determined not to sell their potatoes unti

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 24.
The SPZAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
GLASGOW HARBOUR RAILWAY.
The report on the Glasgow Harbour Grand Junction Rail-
way Terminus was brought up, the amendments and altera-
tions agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be engrossed
SECOND READINGS.
The following Bills were read a second time, and ordered to
be committed, via.:—Stockport Improvement, Toateth Park
Improvement, and the Allhallows Tithes.
The Bolton Waterworks Bill was read a third time and
passed.
Mr. GREENE moved, that in consequence of the agents for
the Bill not having obtained the breviate in time to give an
earlier notice of the second reading, the Stockport Improve-
ment Bill be permitted to be read a second time this day, not-
withstanding the time prescribed by the sessional order had ex-
pired.—The motion was agreed to.
Mr. SPOONER moved that the Glasgow Harbour Grand
Junction Railway Terminus Bill, of which notice of report
had been given for this day, be reported this day, notwith-
standing the resolution of the House of the 7th day of April.—
Agreed to.
_ _

th 1 Right Hon. Gentleman with he-
' about to ask for those of the party opposite; and he was not
IrgSeTATE OF IRELAND.
On the question being put that the order of the day be now
read, to the effect that the House go into Committee on the
Custoras and Corn Importation Bill.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN rose for the purpose of asking the
members of the Government ss;lether they intended taking
any steps towards rescuing Ireland from that appalling state
of starvation in which it appeared, by the returns lately laid
upon the table of the House (and which he hoped every
Member of that House had carefully read), that
that country was in at this present moment ? These
returns represent many places as a ctually suffering under the
effects of famine. After this report, he would ask, would the
Government invite the House to consider a measure for the
purpose of abridging the liberties of the people of Ireland, rather
than one for the relief of the poverty which so alarmingly
prevailed ? Ai they had failed, however, to do that,
he should feel it to be his duty to call the attention
of the House to some of the statements that were to be
found in the report of the " Scarcity Commissioners."
(The; Honourable Gentleman then read extracts of the
report for the month of March.) In many places in the county
of Clare large bodies of the people could only purchase one
scanty meal in the course of the day. In one parish 500 or
600 families were in a state of complete destitution. In the
parish of Clare Abbey, out of 200 families, 50 of them were
only able to procure one meal in the day. In Naas,
also, the supply of pota'oes was so small as to
leave the people in a state of the greatest want.
In Mitchelstown, also in the county of Cork, there were 20,,1:00
persons in a state of destitution. In Tipperary, too,
the distress was very great, and it was, instead. of di-
minishing, on the increase to a most alarming degree.
(The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to read a statement to show
that hundreds of the population in the county of Mayo were
lying idle for want of employment ) The Hon. Member, who
a commentsin onos
Osborne
escenesand 1
ro.f
i ei
hn inaudible, bbeen
w madeitn
ess someed
by Capt
distress which wosht
at Clonmel. Some people blamed the clergy of the
Ryan, the magistrates, who were called upon to quell the dis-
turbanceßoman Catholich Church for some of the evils, but he could
assure the House that they bad done all they could to avert
some of this suffering. Government said this state of things
had taken them by surprise, but how could they maintain this
position after the statements he had just read to the House ?
The famine, Government admitted themselves, was anticipated
in November, and they ought to have taken steps then to avert
it. He would net go veto the details of such a measure that
ought to have been adopted, but it was his firm belief that had
they encouraged labour in Ireland many of the evils would
never have arisen. He charged Government, then, with having
failed in the performance of their duty. Another ex-
cuse was, that they could do nothing without
the co-operation of the landlords. He did not know
how far this complaint applied to the landed interest of
his
partsoia.,:du:bt,:str
~r
n,iCeri7roolfntuytnhh:
at:
dha
be country,,iroceutt distresstbwe eennbt lay sethtt ihamdeo there was
fawi
on,
olaetst.
the
tes
Tc scarcelyoahuperpG: aroo
avfpneaterrhnei
esmht
eh
niant
de-
bate on the Irish Coercion Bill, and charged the Irish Mean.
leers with having delayed the progress of the Corn Bill th y
had said, " We cannot discuss the Corn Rill until the ;C
er
cion Bill is read a first time." But he could not understandoe
how, if the Government undertook to carry on two great and
distinct measures at one and the same time, the progress
of one should be made dependent on the progress of the other.
—( Hear, hear. ) But let it be understood that the Irish
Members had distinctly said before the Easter recess that they
were perfectly ready to let the Government have the command
i Broil,n
Englishg
behaved
time
of every Tuesday and Friday night fur the purpose of proeeed-
oasorestheel a tuiorgihrht laughter.) rC.
that)o e r el
theilo rel
Liberals°e:
very
ba!
,i,i Bill.
lyo..n:t
(lh And
dt.ahr e,
h questionweaar:
English Liberal press, too, had joined in the cry against the
conduct of the Irish Members, when they determined to oppose,
' as they conceived it was their duty to do, the very appearance
of such an odious measure as that which had bees proposed
ostensibly fur the purpose of protecting life and pro ert
Ireland. Every Irish Member had distinctly said that hey in
was
determined to oppose in
. every stage the progress of that mea-
sure, and yet the Government persisted '
in proceeding with it.
They had no right to couple the question of Irish famine with
the question of protection. If the Government had come
down to the House, and told them that the people of Irelard
were starving, they would have helped them to have pro.-
sided means to have remedied the evil. He did not wish to
pocrisy, but he did consider that there was a sin,gular want of
use the word, or charge
candour in putting forward the Irish famine with the corn-
law, which was a measure essentialy English. No matter
what its influence might be in Ireland, it had been called for
solely by the opinion of the English people, and not by the agricultural population of Ireland.---(Hear, hear.) He would
frankly state his own opinions upon the subject, as he was
afraid of any unpopularity which he might acquire on his
side of the House by stating that he was then, as he was in
1842, an advocate of a fixed ditty.—(" Hear, hear," from the
protectionists.) The Noble Lord, whom he followed on
that occasion, had left him in the rear—(Crip i,f
" Hear, hear ") —and the Right Honourable Gentleman
had shot beyond him again : on the question of general policy,
therefore, he had tha misfortune to differ with his Honourable

Mr. T. EGERTON moved that the petitions of James Lock
and the Mersey and Irwell Navigation Company (presented
22,1 April), praying for leave to withdraw their former peti-
tions against the Warrington Waterworks Bill, be read ; and
that the Bill be treated as an unopposed Bill, and referred to
Mr. Greene and the Members ordered to prepare and bring in
the Bill.—The motion was agreed to.
Viscount SANDON moved that it be an instruction to the
Committee of Selection, that the Liverpool Sanatory Regula-
tions Bill, the Liverpool Paving, Sewering, and Watering Bill,
the Liverpool Water Bill, the Liverpool and Harrington Water-
works Bill, and the Toxteth Park Improvement Bill, be re-
ferred to the same Committee.—The motion was alsoagreed to.
Mr. ESTCOURT moved that it be an instruction to the
Committee of Selection to refer the Bristol Waterworks and
Sewerage Bill to the Committee to which the Bristol Water-
works Bill stands referred.—Agreed to.
CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL.
A petition was presented from the Roman Catholic inhabi-
tants
of Brighton in favour of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill,
SMALL TENEMENTS.
Petitions were also presented from places in Lincolnshire
and Yorkshire, praying the House to order the six-pound
tenements to be rated to the landlord and not to the tenant.
Ordered to be laid on the table.

SHREWSBURY AND BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY.
Mr. SPOONER presented a petition from Birmingham
against the proposed line of railway, and against the Belfast
Gas and Improvement Bills.
NO RT il STAFFORDSHIRE R AIL WA Y.
Mr. ENT\VISLE presented a petition from Manchester in
favour of this line of railway.
FISHERIES.
Presidet of '
Captain PECHELL beaged to ask a question of the Vice •
recollection of the Board of Trade. It might be in the the House, that in 1843 an Act was
paa*ed, introducing certain regulations in the fisheries
and the Government were that
titmoe stated . thia't,
phtadsunbi ar
the French authorities were about
regulations. He had since learnet4 that such
done ; and his question was, whether the colle,ztors of been
bad been furnished with a copy of the orionnances of the
French Chamber, as such a proceeding would be extremely
useful, so that parties might know under what 1:114S they were
acting ?
Sir G. CLERK said that the Government had received
no officisl information on the subject, taut that a copy of the
ordonnances would be furnished as soon as they were obtained.
Mr. FELLOWES presented several petitions from the
parish of Huntingdon against their being compelled to pay for
the erection of county lunatic a sylu
tions praying, that the Government would 'taken intop eti-
its
consideration the expediency of passing a law, to the effect
that there should be no assessments upon houses not exceeding
the annual rent of 51. ; and petitions from Suffolk and Hunt-
ingdon, praying that the House would not sanction a union
between the sees of St. Asaph and Ban/or.
POOR REMOVAL BILL.
Mr. G. BAGLEY presented a petition from the inhabi-
tants of a parish in the county of Dorset against several of the
provisions of the P,or Removal Bill, and also a petition from
Swanage, in the county of Dorset, signed by a large number of
the clerg,. of the Established Church there, and also by many
Dissenters of different persuasions, praying that the House
would take measures for the better ob,ervan,e of the Sabbath
in that town, by restricting the sale of spirituous liquors on that
day.

fam resolu'ion had been caused by the fear ofine expressed on
they could realise one farthing a piece for them, and this foolish
the part of her Majesty's Ministers. —( Laughter. ) He be-
lieved that the high price of potatoes had been greatly exagge-
rated, and that many of the people were able to obtain them at
a fair price. If it would allay the excited feelings that existed
in the breasts of the Irish people, they were willing to open the
ports ; but at the same time they did not believe it would re-
sult in any good. They were far from thinking that the aboli-
tion of the corn-laws would benefit Ireland. It was hie (Lord
Bentinck's) firm and conscientious belief that the abolition of
the corn-laws would be the destruction of Ireland.—( Hear,
hear.) He had pondered well upon every word that fell from
ea land.x,ti
,i 3,
en n
arisec Hf., He
b y also
outth e believed
rf
the lips of the Hon. Alemb.'r for Limerick. He concurred in
eery sentiment that that Hon. Gentleman had uttered.
He believed, with him, that the repeal of the
corn-laws would not benefit, but, on the contrary,
a very high authorit
would render still worse the condition of the labourers of Ire-
action
ptheaei ,
doiwithfstrtehses him,cor
corn-laws,
whichh-
laatwth,
wouldere
thatwouldwould ul
calledb at
intoerne d.
very much to hasten and facilitate the repeal of the Union.—
a Roman
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman was himself
tiler that had come into his hands, which perhaps was a still
igher authority. That letter was addressed by Mr. Hughes,
y, and he would road to the House a let-
Catholie priest of considerable distinction in the
county of Mayo, and a man of high character, to Mr. Moore,
on the eve of the late election, and it de.erved to be read for
the setirnents therein expreved. It was dated the 6th of February. It stated that " Mr. Ilughea'
pro-
moting his
peal question were of a similar nature to those entertained by
Air. O'Connell ; and if Air. 11 ore entertained similar opi-
nions, the writer would I . disposed° give his vote to Mr.
,el to Mooreopinions on the re-
, and whatever little influence he might possess in pro-
b9yot
Sir Robert
dist an .
(Air. Hughes) expected that if the present Parliament should
election " The letter went on to state that ' he
continue for another year, that the county of Mayo would be in
PeelTh ewou commerciall
would i n a- short a better position to return a repeal .oember.' He further
"Y5l, " lie had another consideration which satisfied
him that the repeal of the present Legislative Union was
become the law of
the eountry. The result of those measures would he to facili-
tate the repeal of the Union, as when carried into effect, they
could not fail to make repealer: of the landed aristocracy of
hvci>rers time which were entertained
Ireland, for there was not a gentleman in the country that
iwould not continue satisfied with those measures. The legis-
p.tife enantm.nts of Sir Robert Peel would drive out of the
. ,Osi, roark,ts Lite agricultural
i produce of Ii eland. i,e,arni
'
would then be thrown on it
resources; the establishment
of Irish marktits—of Irish
manufactures would then ensue_
and, finally, dm neoessity for the construction of an Irish Par.

I - BRIDPORT ELECTION.
Mr. Bingham Escott, Lord Dalmeny, Mr. Charles Wood,
Lord Claude Hamilton, and Sir W. Somerville, were sworn in
to try the merits of the I3ridport election.
Mr. B. COCHRANE said that he would make a few ob-
servations to the House relative to the Committee which was
t 9 meet to-morrow morning—not in the expectation that the
Howe would deviate in any way from the rules laid down—not
so much, he said, from any regard to his own personal
interest, hut f,om a desire to protect the interests
of other Hon. Members who must be placed under similar
circumstances with himself, and who must suffer (and he said
it with all respect) from the wording of this Act, and therefore
as it must be the wish of the House to do justice to the indivi-
dual Members who composed it, as it must be their anxious
desire to give a fair judgment on a question of this nature, he
trusted that they would permit hint to occupy their time for a
very limited period. By the recent measure which had ben ;
broughts
allin the by the. Right Hon. Gentleman at the head I
ofthe Government for the suppression of bribery, it was enacted in one of the clauses that in all cases of controverted i
parties complaining of such election or rellurn ' 1

THE S UN, 14 ON DON, SAM!) A it, E VENI Nl, APH I I_l 25, 1846.

liament to protect those interests would becorhe paramount."
This he (Lord G. Bentinck) believei to be the true picture of
reasonthe res ul t s
whyoft h tohs
ee
me Ministerasut
eti a littenteawsiutrhe
thei Ireland,
support an
of d a
nt hye
Irisho l y
Member was, that he thought by voting for those measures
be was facilitating the advent of the repeal of the Union.--
( Hear, hear, and loud cheers from the Irish Members.)
He knew not whether the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of
the Government was then secretly considering the probable
effects of his policy. It was impossible to foresee, from one
tyheearßtioghatnHoothn. Baronet. another, whatan ecto ( Hr, hear.)urseeoafpolic He (
Lo
y would be adopted bgye
Bentinck) saw himself that the consequence of that policy
would be the dismemberment of the empire, and that conse-
quence would be further facilitated by the present course of
the Right Hon. Baronet. He could well conceive that the
distress that would be brought on in Ireland might drive the Irish
to plirensy. They had been told by the latest convert—the
latest Noble convert to the cause of the repeal of the corn-
laws, the Earl of Essex, that one class of farmers must suffer
by the repeal of the corn-laws—( Hear, hear)—a class of
farmers which, in the estimation of that Noble Lord, ought
never to have been farmers at all, not being possessed of capital.
They were farmers who had got no capital but honour and in-
tegrity, and these were the men—once the pride and strength
of the empire—who were to be sacrificed.—( Hear, hear.)
If farmers without capital were to be sacrificed—if the round
frocks of England were to be sacrificed, what would become of
the Irish farmers ?—( Hear, hear.) They were told that there
were 558,000 farmers in Ireland holding farms not exceeding
fifteen acres ; and he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite how much capital these 558,000 farmers possessed?
He asked what capital they had but their hard, horny hands
and sinewy arms, with which they cultivated the land? and
these 558,000 Irish farmers of the Earl of Essex were right
free to be sacrificed to the political conduct of the Right Hon.
Baronet. If they estimated, as he believed they might
estimate, that there were not five, but six per-
sons, to a family in Ireland—for, to their honour
and to the credit of the Irish tenantry and Irish reople,
he believed, that instead of, maintaining themselves and their
own children only, the custom was, among the poorer clas-es,
to support their aged and infirm parents —( Hear, hear)—
they might, therefore, imagine not five to family, as was the
estimate in England, bat estimate six to a family, and they
would have at once 3,500,600 persons who would be deprived
of subsistence by the measures of the Right Hon. Baronet—
( Hear, hear)—and 558,000 families, or 3,500,000 persons—if
the letter of the Catholic clergyman were right—would be de-
prived of their farms aed homes. There were reasons which
counted as high with him as with many others, for
maintaining the present corn-laws. If this measure were
carried, would it not give cause of dissatisfaction—
if they had 3,500,000 people thrown into a state
of destitution, in addition to the 2,300,000 already
destitute ? Some other measures than the suspension of the
corn-laws would be necessary to provide for so much misery.—
Hear, hear.) He for one could see no remedy for the evil
but in a poor-law, of a construction different from that now in
existence. He could see no salvation and no peace for Ireland
save in a liberal and generous poor-law, which would be ear-
r.ed out on the principle that' no Irishman any more than an
Englishman should starve. They were told the other night,
by the Hon. and Learned ltsember for Cork, that 256,0001.
was levied annually for poses-rates in Ireland, 90,000/. of
which went to pay the interest of the money laid out in work-
houses, and to maintain the staff of the Poor-law Commis-
sioners, leaving 166,000/. to provide sustenance for 2,300,000
destitute poor in Ireland. That amounted to a farthing
and about a third per head per week. He understool also that
only 37,000 people came to the workhouses to be relieved out
of the funds of the poor-law. 166,000/. divided amongst that
number only made Is Sid. per week per head, a sum not
sufficient to obtain good and wholesome food for them. In
the ordinary course of things, and deducting 37,000 people,
there were 2,263,000 people left. destitute, and could they he
surprised, in the ordinary course of things, that with 2 263,000
people without money, without potatoes in Ireland, there
should be riots and disturbances in that country? The people
would have food, and there was but one resource, and that was
to provide it for them. Was it to be endured
that there should be food to the value of
10,000,0001. sterling sent out of Ireland, while not
more than 256,000/, should be given to the people in that
country? He was well aware that a poor-law was not to he
carried without much consideration. That it could not pass in
a day— in a week— in a month—or in three months perhaps, in
that House, but there must he some immediate provision
made for the present emergency.---( Hear, hear.) He did re-
collect, that in the year 1833 that House almost unanimously
supported a measure to grant one million sterling to the desti-
tute Protestant clergy of Ireland, who were in arrear of their
tithes for the years 1831 and 1832. That money became
gift to those whose duty it was to pay the tithes;
and if they could, in 1833. make a gift of a million
sterling to the tithe-payers of Ireland, could they not then,
when the people were !starving, break through the rigid rules
of political severity—(Loud cheering)—and attend to the wants
of Ireland. Let them for the time being supply the wants of
the Irish people from the funds of this country, and set to work
in earnest to make a lasting and permanent provision for them.
These were the opinions which he believed were generally en-
tertained by his friends sitting around him, and if the Members
for Ireland would introduce such measures as these they would
have their cordial support. These were the opinions held
in former times by an eminent statesman holding the confi-
dence of that House (Mr. Huskisson.) In the year 1829,
Mr. Huskisson said that the introduction of a good poor-law
in Ireland would be found to be the introduction of a feeling
of security, and would invite and maintain the employment of
English capital in Ireland. He said it was that feeling of se-
curity that brought the greatness and wealth of the country,
and it was that feeling which alone could have a similar effect
in Ireland ; and unless such a measure was soon brought for-
ward, all his cherished hopes of the good effect of the Roman
Catholic Emancipation Bill would be disappointed. He (Lord
George Bentinck) did once, in the bumble position of secre-
tary to Mr. Canning, twenty-five years ago, possess the confi-
dence of that illustrious statesman ; and he had often heard him
say that it was to the poor-law of England that England owed
her strength in the hard struggle against the united arms of
Europe. It was in times of the greatest difficulty, when the
the people were called on to make the severest sacrifices to
bear the burden of the war, that:the poor-law of the country
showed its beneficial effects. These were the substantial
measures to which his Hon. Friends around him might look
for the salvation of Ireland, for the quieting of disturbances.
and the maintenance of peace in that country ; and whilst
they agreed, in deference to the feelings that had been expressed
by the Hon. Gentleman standing so high in the confidence of
the people of Ireland, cordially to concur in that suspension,
they wished heartily to acquit themselves of believing for one
moment, or wishing to make the Irish nation believe that in
the suspension, or abolition, of the corn-laws, any relief what-
ever could be afforded to the misery of one single individual
in Ireland.—(Loud cheering.)
Mr. V. SMITH said that he should not enter into any dis-
cussion of the attacks made upon all the English Liberals on
that side of the House for having exhibited a want of sympathy
on behalf of the people of Ireland. He could say that he him •
self had not shown any such want of sympathy, and he believed
that many of his Hon. Friends around him could justify them-
selves in a similar manner. As the Hon. Gentleman had in-
troduced the question of the return which had been presented
of the applications for work in consequence of the scarcity of
provisions, he (Mr. V. Smith) would say that he thought that
what had been read to the House was not the enly painful part
of them. They showed the absence of individual exertion by
parties possessing property in Ireland. This was a question
that greatly affected the people of this country as well as the
people of Ireland. The people of this country were submit-
ting without a murmur to spend large sums of money for the
relief of their suffering countrymen. But the Government and
the Houses of Parliament should ask what had been done by
the landlords of Ireland. The statement presented the other
day not only showed the entire absence of individual exertions,
but applications of the most extraordinary nature. One of
the applications was from the Earl of Kingston for 500/. to
make a fish-pond in his domain, and to employ the people of
Ireland. The return was deficient in one respect, for it did
not say what answer was returned by the Commissioners. He
could not suppose that such an application as that would be en-
tertained by any Commission or by her Majesty's Ministers,
but he wished to know if it were passible for the Right Hon.
Gentleman to submit to Parliament any return of what had
been done by persons holding property in Ireland, and whether
they had made any contribution for the relief of the distress
which prevailed. It was due to the people of England, and to
the Gentlemen round him, many of whom had contributed
largely from their own purses, to inform them whether the per-
sons possessing property in Ireland, whether absentee or other-
wise, were willing to come forward and assist by their contri-
butions.

Sir J. GRAHAM (who was very indistinctly heard) said
that it was an invariable rule which he had always acted upon,
that whenever any sum was advanced for public works in
Ireland, one moiety was in the shape of a gift and the other
moiety was secured by the Grand Jury presentment, and no
advance had ever been made exLept under that rule. Govern-
ment had advanced money for these purposes, and under that
regulation, but in the suburban districts of large towns this
regulation could not always be strictly acted upon. The Lord-
Lieutenant had a discretionary power in this matter, and if the
property of any person were improved by the works, the pro-
prietor of the grounds always contributed half of the sum
expended. With respect to the case put by the Hon. Member
with regard to the application for bOO/., that application had
not yet been attended to, and he might state that he did not
think, that under the circumstances, the Commissioners wouki grant it.

r Mr. E. . ROCHE said that he had never heard with
more satisfaction any speech made in that House than the
speech of the Noble Lord opposite, were it only for one principle
laid down in that speoch, viz., that on Irish subjects. The voice
of the Irish people expressed through their representatives
in that House should be protected. Were there no other as-
sertion in that speech, and were it to contain no other prin-
ciple of hope for Ireland, that principle, corning from a man
of the Noble Lord's weight and standing in that House, should
be received by the people of Ireland with gratitude, and he
confessed that he never in his life felt more hope for the future
prosperity and peace of Ireland than at the present moment.
He thanked the Noble Lord, who had the confidence of the
party he represented, for the generous and liberal sentiments
he had expressed—that his wish and determination, if he had
the power, was to relieve the distress of the people of Ireland.
However urgent the misery which the people was suf-
fering, that expression of sympathy would excite in them tome
hope. It was painful and humiliating for Irish Members to
come down there every day to detail to the unwilling hearers
the misery and suffering which prevailed among their fellow-
countrymen. Nevertheless, if only to justify the position the
representatives of Ireland had taken, it was necessary for them
to do so—to state the overwhelming misery which the people
were forced to suffer. Perhaps the House would recollect that
lately he felt it his duty to detail a great amount of misery and
suffering that prevailed in his own neighbourhood. In
adddition to what he then stated, he would further
inform the House that he had since received a letter from
Roman Catholic clergyman, who was a competent auth authority
on the state of things that prevailed in that county.
letter was one that arose out of a correspondence between
.e neigh-
them
on another matter the construction of a roade I n h
bourhood. He would read an extract from t lettert
which
was written from the parish of O'Hodda, in the county of
Cork. (The Hon. Gentleman read the extract ins question,which
set forth that the distress was increasing ; that the Con-
servative gentlemen stated that Sir Robert Peel did not care
for the distress, only that it would enable him to pass his Corn
Bill; that they bad tried to get some corn meal from Liverpool
to meet the wants of the population ; that the people con-
siJered watereresses and turnips a luxury ; and that potatoes
were as high as Ils. a barrel, or at the rate of l Id. a stone.)—
( Hear, hear.) When (continued the Hon. Gentleman) he
saw the people literally starving, worse than the beasts of the
field, he did not care about being told about the representa-
tives of Ireland interfering with the public time in
their appeals to the House of Commons and the Govern-
ment for the relief of the people. Everthing
was asked to give way to the people of England and
the Corn Bill. But the people of Ireland were starv-
ing, and therefore what did they care about the Anti-Corn-
law League and free-trade ? If they appealed to the Anti.
Corn-law League, they got nothing but doctrines of political
economy, but on appealing to the Noble Lord (Lord George
Bentinck) he would give them food and money.—(" Hear,"
from the protectionists.) Wherever they found relief, that
was the source on which they ought to trust. The Irish
Members were called names, and marked with opprobrium by
evLry ieribe ;:,ey ale,i
weir starving fellow-countrymen. v The common epithets ap-
t' s to them by the press was that the Irish Members were
mpracticable malignano."

An HONOURABLE MEMBER remarked, that the remark
; had been used by the Morning Hera'd.
Mr. ROCHE said, No ; it was used by the Times news-
' paper. The Right Hon. Baronet depended a great dent on his
free-trade measures ; but he (Mr. Roche) would ask if free
trade would take the people of Ireland out of their slough o!
suffering? If so, then ought the Right Hon. Baronet to
apply free-trade measures at once—( Hear, hear)—and not
hold it in abeyance while he destroyed the liberties of Ire-
land. If the people of Ireland were to be free, iv seemed they
must starve; but if they were to have food, it was upon the
condition of their being enslaved. But they (the representa-
tives of Ireland) said they must not enslave the people of Ire-
land. He must say, he had more hope from the statements
which had fallen front the Noble Lord (George Bentinck )
than anything he had heard for many years in that House. In
the great county which he represented he did not know any
good the Government had done in the way of relieving the
people. In illustration of this, he might refer to
the parish in which he resided, with the clergyman
of which he had had the correspondence already
referred to. That correspondence was about the making of a
road for a better connexion with the harbour of Cork, and to
employ the people. He (Mr. Roche) wrote to the Board of
Works, stating that the resident proprietors were prepared to
advance one moiety, if the Board of Works would advance the
other. After some correspondence it was arranged, so he
understood it, that an engineer should be rent to survey the
road, and he had made, he (Mr. Roche) believed, a favour-
able report. Subsequent to that. he wrote to the Board of
Works for information as to the way the instalments should be
raised. That was on the 6th of April, and yesterday a letter
was forwarded to him on the subject, dated the 18th of April.
In the interval nothing had been done to meet. the case; this
showed the way the executive Government of Ireland acted;
not applying themselves to the question as they ought, but
going on in the old jog-t:ot system. This mode of adminis •
tering relief was a perfect farce ; nay, it was worse
than a farce, it was tragical to the people of
Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) The Government was evidently not
equal to the occasion. They undertook the Government of the
country and pretended to be doing a great deal, and when he
made an inquiry, he found them going on in the old system, and
mystifying and deceiving the people of Ireland. The relieving
the distresses of the people of Ireland was a much more absorb-
ing question to him than any other question, and therefore it
gave him great pleasure to hear the Noble Lord say, that he
was prepared to give them full measure of relief. The speech
of the Noble Lord, he could assure him, would be read with the
greatest satisfaction on the other side of the Channel, and his
name would be received with honour and respect for the senti-
ments he had uttered. Again, he (Mr. Roche), asked the
Right Hon. Baronet, what had he donee...what was he doing to
relieve the existing distress? He (Mr. Roche) maintained
absolutely nothing. In conclusion, he was glad that the Hon.
Member for Limerick had brought the subject under the con-
sideration of the Howe ; in doing an he was entitled to the
support and gratitude of every friend of Ireland.
Mr. BELLEW complained of the want of parties duly
authorised by the Government to go through Ireland, and look
after, and report upon the works necessary to be carried ou:.
In many instances already, though grants had been made, the
woeks had not been undertaken, from the want of parties to put
them into op ration. He would speak for his own county,
where no progress had been made in the proposed works. He
must say, he did not agree with the Hon. Gentleman who had
last spoken, in his estimate of the speech of the Noble Lord
(Lord George Bentinek). He (Mr. Bellew) happened to be
in favour of a repeal of the corn-laws, though not a repeal of
the Union, and he would not be bribed even by the promise of
a million from the Noble Lord, to forego his opinion on these
subj.'cts.—( Hear, hear.) He complained that the Irish land-
lords had not done their duty, and that whatever advances were
made by the Government would fail to a great extent, unless
the landlords were brought to perform their share. The evil
was, public opinion was not strong enough in Ireland to make
the landlords do their duty. In that case, they ought to have
a law, to make those who had to give to those who had not,
even though the principle of it might not be in accordance with
political economy.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. E. B. ROCHE explained.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN said that this was not the first time he
hail expressed his want of confidence in the Board of Works in
' Ireland, and he did not think the suggestions offered by the
Honourab'e Member who had last spoken would supply the de-
ficiency. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) had gone over to Ireland, and
he found the state of the potato crop there even worse than it
was represented, and the answers received from the Board of
Public Works showed that no reliance could be placed upon
them. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) then wrote to Lord Lincoln,
stating that he was willing to take charge of his
own people, but as the necessities of the neigh-
bouring district were so great, he could not undertake
to support them all. He wrote to Lord Lincoln on Friday.
His Lordship replied on Sunday, and said that he would on his
awn responsibility send down a Government officer, and on the
Monday Mr Griffiths arrived in the district, and on the Wed-
nesday numbers of the poor were set to work. When he,
therefore, heard the remarks of the Hon. Member for Cork
that evening, he could not help saying that it would always be
a subject of satisfaction to him to bear witness to the zeal, the
exertion, and the ability displayed by the Earl of Lincoln in
his official capacity—( Hear, hear)—and he was sure that the
Right Hon. Baronet might receive his statements with any
confidenee ; and it did give him (Mr. O'Brien) the most
sincere pleasure thus in his place in Parliament to do justice to
the kindness-received from Lord Lincoln. —( Cheers. )
Mr. CALEB POWELL would wish to say one word in
reference to an allusion made to a Noble Lord in Ireland,
whose name was returned in the Report of the Board of Works
as making an application for 500/., with the view of construct-
ing a fish-pond on his own estate. He (Mr. C. Powell) did
not for a moment doubt that this application could be satisfac-
torily explained from the fact of the well-known philanthropy
and patriotism of the Noble Lord. That Nobleman resided
on his own property—(Cheers)—and he was profusely
lavish of his expenditure for the good of the tenantry. To his
(Mr. C. Powell's) knowledge he had_spent 500/. a week f:r
many consecutive weeks. The same feeling might have
prompted the Noble Lord in this application to Government.
Mr. D. BROWNE thought that the Government had ex-
hibited a most benevolent feeling towards Ireland, but they
were mistaken in the means of carrying it out. He quite
agreed with the Hon. Member who stated that there was abun-
dance of food in Ireland, but that, in consequence of the
scarcity of work, the people had no means of purchasing it.
He always agreed with the Noble Lord, that unless the land-
lords did their duty, they would be under the necessity of esta-
blishing a poor-law system in that country, which would give
to the poor an absolute title to relief.—( Hear, hear.) But he
thought that the Noble Lord had not properly stated the senti-
ments of the Rev. Mr. Hughes, who was an intimate friend of
his own, and who had supported him throughout the whole of
his political career, when he said that the repeal of the corn-
laws would make all 1ri.,11 landlords repealers. He (Mr.
Browne) believed that Mr. Hughes would hail the removal of
the corn-laws as one of the first boons that could be offered;
and he quite disagreed with the Noble Lord, when he asserted
that this Government measure for the repeal of the corn-laws
would prove disadvantageous to Ireland. He would, with the
permission of the House, illustrate the view he took of this
subject by a reference to matters of history. In the reign of
Charles 11. the Irish people memorialised the Government of
this country, through the then Lord-Lieute,ant (he believed
Lord Ormond) that the imposition of a tax on Irish food,
imported into England, would inflict utter ruin upon
Ireland, because they would not then be able to
keep up their standing army. The tax was, however,
imposed, and the Irish were consequently obliged to direct their
energies into other channels. The result was, that the coun-
try increased in prosperity from the establishment of the linen
and other manufactures to such a degree, that an after petition
prayed that a tax might be imposed upon every article of ex-
port.—(Laughter.) He for one would express his gratitude to
the Noble Lord for the conciliatory tone in which he had re-
ferred to the policy to he pursued with respect to Ireland. It
was always pleasing to hear his country spoken well of, and the
Noble Lord had shown his appreciation of their sufferings, by
not only sanctioning the importation of corn duty free, but by
expressing also his readiness to go to the public treasury for a
fund to meet the distresses of the country. But he wished to
call the attention of the House to a motion which had imme-
diate reference to the district with which he was more immedi-
ately connected. He referred to a communication e. hich had
taken place between Mr. Kennedy, chief secretary of
the Relief Board in Dublin, and the Rev. Sir.
Moore, an estimable Protestant clergyman of Cong, in
Mayo. Sir. Moore lived in his immediate neighbJurhood.
He (Mr. D. Browne) was a Roman Catholic, and Mr. Moore,
as he had stated, was a Protestant clergyman, yet they lived
on the most friendly terms, and he was therefore enabled to
speak to that gentleman's usefulness in the district. Mr.
Moore apprehended that famine would assail their neighbour-
hood, and with the most praiseworthy intentions (because the
unfortunates whom he intended to benefit were all Roman
Catholics) went to Dublin, and obtained an interview with
the chief secretary. The Rev. Mr. Moore stated that a con-
siderable time elapsed before Mr. Kennedy would deign to
notice that he was present; he seemed too busily engaged in
giving directions to his clerks and the printers • and when at
last he did see Mr. Moore, and when that gentleman told him
that there were great apprehensions of! amine in his district,
the secretary very coolly referred him to the poor-house
of Balinrobe, because theret. one could he or they
obtain relief. He (Mr. D. Browne) was a guardian
in the union of Balinrobe, and he could inform the House that
one-fiftieth of the inhabitants of the district in which Mr.
Moore resided could not get relief there. Mr. Moore then
addressed a letter to Lord Lincoln, but the Noble Lord himself
did not deign to reply to it. He, however, sent an answer
through Mr. Penefeather (a most unintelligible answer),
stating that the relief afforded would be regulated by the man-
ner in which the landlords would perform their duties. What!
was relief to be tested by the scale of a landlord's moral obli-
gation ? If Mr. Penefeather had told Mr. Moore that relief
was to be given commensurately with the amount of the land-
lord's subscription, that would be intelligible enough, however
unsatisfactory it might have been to Mr. Moore, who was sur-
rounded by pro?erty belonging to absentees. His Reverend
Friend afterwards wrote to the Lord-Lieutenant, stating that
they did not ask a boon from Government, all they wanted
being a cargo of Indian corn to regulate the prices in the
market. It was ten days before he received a reply to his
communication, and that a most unsatisfactory cne, because it
merely referred him back to Mr. Kennedy. (The Hon.
berbe-
tween here read the correspondence which had taken place
the parties.) What was the deduction to be drawn ? That
however beneficially inclined her Majesty's Government might be
towards Ireland, her people might be allowed to starve until
they had first ascertained what were the intentions of the land-
lords. The people might, however, die while this relief body
in Dublin were deliberating as to the propriety of giving re-
lief. Why, the people in Ireland had been waiting for upwards
of a century in expectation of getting justice from their land-
lords; but the people were at their mercy, and they got no
justice. The landlords in England recognised the principle
that labour had its rights as well as its duties ; but in Ireland
the landlords recognised no such principle. The Hon. Mem-
ber concluded by impressing on the Government the duty of
coming forward immediately to alleviate the distress in Ireland.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD coincided in the opinion
of Hon. Members who had spoken before him, that the time
had come when a tax should be levied on the land and landlords
for the support of the poor in Ireland. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment had taken on themselves the responsibility of providing
for the poer in that country, and he trusted that by some mea-
sure of this kind they would redeem that pledge. He (Mr.
S. Crawford) would give the resident landlord a fair draw-
back from this tax. There was another part of the
subject to which he would refer shortly. He was
sorry to hear the Hon. Member for Limerick describe the
repeal of the corn-laws as solely an English question. He
(Mr. S. Crawford) thought it was more important as an Irish
question ; and he had no doubt, if the duty on corn
were
abolished, very considerable benefits would accrue to the Irish
people. If they were to be taxed for the support of the poor,
it furnished the greater reason why they should have cheap
food in the country. He did nut blame Irish Members be.
cause tbey gave a legitimate oposition to what was called the
Irish Coercion Bill. But he did hope that they would limit
the discussion to what was really necessary on the subject.
Ile was, therefore, most anxious that the Bill for the total and
entire abolition of the corn-laws should be
proceeded "l
because of all other things that were
necessary for the good
and prosperity of Ireland, during the present crisis, cheapness
of food was the most needed; and he, therefore, hoped that
some arrangement might be made, whereby the measure could
be
proceeded with without any further delay.—( Cheers. )
Mr. O'CONNELL was sure that it would be admitted that
he did not at all question the good intentions of the Govern-
ment towards Ireland, wen llmy pro,emNi e;r meas4!-o f
the relief of the people during their present misfortunes.—
or
( Hear, hear.) He would be ashamed of himself if he doubted
the goodness of their intentions in proposing that measure, but

he had to complain (and he was happy to know that that cent
plaint had been joined in by several other Hon. Members) o
the inoperativeness of the parties employed by the Govern
ment.—( Hear, hear.) There were sadly too many diploma
and references from one party to the other. There was tedi-
ousneas everywhere, and activity nowhere, amongst the gentle-
men deputed to administer relief to the people during their
;resent distress. Let the Government appoint men of energy
and activity. The men that had been appointed were ignorant
of the localities to which they had been sent, and they mani-
fested entire ignorance of the proper mode of relieving the
wants of the people in such a crisis as at present prevailed
in Ireland. He thought that the House would agree aerial him,
when he said that the Government should expend more money
than they proposed to do for this purpose.—(Hear, hear.)
He was ashamed to ask for more money for his impoverished
fellow-countrymen. He was was not there as a mendicant asking
for further grants for Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Let the
Government advance their money without fear ; there was
no doubt that they would, as they bad previously done, take
care that they had ample security for its repayment. Let
them tax the landlords.— ( Hear, hear.) Let them insert into
their next Loan Bill such provisions as they had inserted in
the Coercion 13i11 for the taxation of the landed proprietors.--
( Hear, hear.) Let them transfer to the people the protection
which they proposed to give to the landlords. But whilst they
taxed the landlords, let them observe the rules of equity and
justice. For iartance, they should tax but lightly such a
landlord as the Hon. Member for Northamptonshire, who, it
appeared, had done his duty to his tenants in Ireland.—(Heare
hear.) But let them tax heavily such landlords as failed to
perform such duties as they owed to their tenants. It might
be said that those were unconstitutional doctrines; but the people
were starving—they were actually dying, while the Members
of that House were
.canvassing constitutional doctrines.—
(Hear, hear.) They were perishing by hundreds whilst
they were discussing the best mode of relieving them.
Did they not hear read from the returns, which they them-
selves had placed upon the table of the House, that this family
had hut one meal a day, and another family had not tasted
bread for 48 hours, and if they waited till the next 48 hours
were elapsed they would find them in their graves ? The
Government had professed an anxiety to relieve the fearful
calamities of Ireland ; let them then come forward frankly ;
he was sure that the House would not shrink from giving teeir
support in any measure which would effectually alleviate their
distress.—( Hear, hear.) But let there be no longer any
laziness or delay. It it were true that, the Government was
not able to meet the challenge which he had already made, tor
the effect that not one single shilling had as yet been laid out
by the officers of the Government for the relief of the people
of Ireland, why did they not bestir themselves, whilst that
people, according to their own reports, were famishing ? Let
there be no eilatoriness, no unnecessary delay at the Castle
f Dublin.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the measure that
had been proposed by the Government for the relief of the
people, it was quite true that he had thrown out opinions con-
trary to what he now offered, but when the people were starv-
ing it was no time to discuss private opinions. Let the Go-
vernment at once tax the landlords of Ireland for the support
of the starving tenants ; let them make that experiment, and
when they did, let them do it boldly. Let them drop their
Coercion 13111. Let them bring forward a Coercion Bill for
the landlords of Ireland, by which they would be coerced to
do their duty to their oppressed tenants. Let them introduce
some measure which would compel the landlords to perform
their bounden duties towards the poor around them.—( Hear,
hear. And whilst he spoke of landlords, he did not mean to
include all the landlords of Ireland. Many of the landlords
were good men, but there was at the same time, an abundance
of clearance and " destroying" landlords in Ireland.—( Hear,
hear. ) It would be seen at once that he had still :.7is strong
objections to the plan of ont-door relief for the alleviation of
the distress in Ire land ; but, under the present circumstances,
he was anxious for the introduction of any measure that would
bring food to the people, and he was, therefore, sorry that' his
Hen. Friend, the Member for Limerick ( Mr. Smith O'Brien)
was opposed to the total repeal of the corn-laws.—( Hear,
hear.) His (Mr. O'Connell's) own conviction was, that
nothing but repeal would do the people of Ireland any good.—
( Cheers.) The existence of the present corn-laws had clearly
done them no good.—( Cheers.) The existence of that mea-
sure had been concomitant with misery—with increasing
misery : it was concomitant with destitution ; and, therefore,
any man that could suppose that Ireland was benefited by the
continuance of the corn-laws must draw very largely on his
imagination.— ( Hear, hear.) It was quite plain that the corn-
laws had not enhanced manufacturing industry in Ireland,
nor the number of her manufactures.—( Hear, hear.) What
did they want for Ireland ? Wages. Agriculture would not
give ahem wages, nor I ad the corn-laws given them wages.
—( Cheers.) They had said that the corn slaws had been
introduced for the good of Ireland; but of all other cosine
tries in Europe, that country had been the least benefited
by such a measure.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped, therefore,
that they would at once, and for Heaven's sake, set about
the passing of the Bill for the abolition of the corn-laws and
postpone their Coercion Bill.—(Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. P. SCROPE was anxious to make a few observations
with respect to a portion of the speech of the Noble Lord the
Member for Lynn (Lord George Bentinck ), because he was
very much struck with its inconsistency. That Noble Lood had
spoken of the enormous exportations of corn and other provi-
sions that were rent from Ireland to this country, and he had
said that if they abolished the corn-laws, they would ruin
500,000 families who lived by the cultivation of the soil in that
country. Now really it appeared to him (Mr. Scrope) that
the only effect that would follow the abolition of those laws,
would be that the Irish people (supposing the Noble Lord's
argument to be true) would have the 10,000,0001. worth of provi-
sions which they annually sent to this country to consume
themselves ; all their batter, their corn, their cheese, their po-
tatoes, their poultry, and other provisions, would be kept for
the support of themselves. That was the only result which to
his mind at least would follow from the passing of the corn-
laws. He could not admit that the whole of the time which
had been occupied on the Coercion Bill had been thrown away.
He thought that that debate had had the effect of showing such
Hon. Members as were ignorant of the state of Ireland, the
great necessity of passing some measure for the
substantial remedy of the miseries under which the people
of Ireland laboured. It showed in his opinion the necessity of
procuring for the people of Ireland substantial employment,
such as had been enjoyed by the people of England for
centuries. He did not think that the Government need
entertain any dread about the introduction of any measure
which would compel the landlords of Ireland to support the
poor around them. Let them fearlessly proceed with their
measure for the abolition of the corn-laws. They surely did
not want to starve the people of Ireland—they could not, in
fact, de so, because the people would be fed in some way or
other. The hungry millions would not suffer themselves to be
starved to death ; and he therefore maintained that the
Government must feed the people of Ireland, by whatever
means they might accomplish that object. Now, if that pro-
position were conceded to him, the next step was this—How
were the peopled fed at present ? Why they were fed in the
most wasteful, extravagant, profligate, and foolish manner that
any people could be ft d ; they were fed by a misguided system
of almsgiving. The mendicant travelled through the country
and found his way to everybody's cottage; he attended at
every door and begged from al the inhabitants. It was ad-
mitted that a mendicant's life was the ver worst
way of obtaining a livelihood and that the present
system of almsgiving in Ireland, was one which de-
moralised the character of the people, as had been proved
by the Reverend Dr. Doyle, whose name was venerated
throughout Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) That Right Rev. Gen-
tleman had proved that it supported a set of the most profligate
and abandoned characters, and that the poorer classes became
in consequence greatly demoralised. A pauper would, as it
appears, send out his wife and children to beg whilst he him-
self remained at home doing nothing but trifling his time away
in gossip and smoking his pipe. And laying aside the demo-
ralistne tendency of the present system of mendicancy in Ire-
land, let us look at it in a pecuniary point of view. It neces-
sarily caused a profligate waste of money ; besides, able-bodied
men were kept in the character of idle paupers, who might
be otherwise employed in furthering the interests of Ireland.
Their reports proved that there were thousands of that cha-
racter at present in Ireland. Now, he wished to ask whether
it would not be preferable to have all the money that was
given in the shape of eleemosynary relief in Ireland, collected by
proper parties, fur the purpose of distributing it to worthy
characters? And whilst they did so let them collect money for
the relief of the poor—from the willing as well as the unwilling ;
let them compel all who were able to support the poor of that
country.—( Hear, hear.) Let them thus introduce a
methodical and economical relief of the wants of
the po,'r. Let them collect taxes for the support of the poor
from absentees as well as those who resided on their property
in Ireland. Le: them bring out the recourses of Ireland and
compel the landowners to do their duty to their tenants ; let
them introduce some oompulsory measure, which eventually
would remove the evils of Leeland in a great measure. Let
them not leave the relief of the poor to the discretion
of the landlords of Ireland, foe he thought that they
must have clearly found that thee' were wrong in an-
ticipating the voluntary co-opperation of those gentle-
men in their efforts to relieve the wants of the people
of Ireland during their present distress.—(god,:. hear.) It
was quite clear from the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet
that the Government had relied very much on the co. operation
of the landlords of Ireland, and it was quite clear also that t:2e3.'
had failed to afford the anticipated cooperation to a very great.
extent.—( Hear, hear.) He certainly regretted most deeply
that they had been mistaken in that anticipation; the expe-
rience of past years might have prepared them for such a
failure. The Government were responsible for the present im-
perfect system of relief of the poor in Ireland, and in a great
measure for the present distress in that country. The distress that

tat-C. P 3,. reWenast
there not
notin I
a faminereland w
ina s n
Ireol
at nothingi
nn elwB2i3n, t hlaBt277u andn-
-1842 ? and not many years ago subscriptions to the amount of
several hundred thousand pounds had been raised in England
fur the support of the people ; and after all it had been proved
that that very money had gone into the pockets of
o f an Irish
the
i d
lords. He happened to have a copy evidenceof_tahveenjish) which was
tendered
gentleman (the Hon. Frederick C
thato sum
no
of which
a
L
et into the pockets of the Irish landlords, in the shape of
ordDeir boenfor wase the
the Mhemeabde, rs
which of th
provede Commission
hmaistsi
ts.—( Hear. hear.) He did hope that this discussion would
dint terminate witheut some substantial measure for the relief
of the calamities of Ireland being proposed. He did think that
the time was come now when sorr.e measure should be adopted
by the Legislature, for the purpose of compelling the land-
lords to do their duties to those that surrounded them.—
( Hear, hear.) He slid not mean to say anything against
the landlords of Ireland individually; he knew that
several of them were worthy characters, like the Hon. Member
manner.w hi
ne edh at
hd
_e s fel
ionkereanrp,
einhnpelaet
rh.ne)n ctohTuehri sreeye
sodt
afi
dt
et hts
hi
iseni dr eaubvtamet eroy. 3 t
pfTroarhi
sets
ehyieemn
sup-
port hne
y..-
port of the destitute population of the neighbourhood of their
iiron
bestates. It was, however, necessary that the landlords should
e compelled to do their duty, for there were clearly hundreds
who would not, if left to contribute a voluntary tax, attend in
the least to the state of the peer. If some such measure were
introduced, he felt "confident that the people would be made
more industrious and useful members of society, and peaceable
subjects of her Majesty.—( Hear.)
Mr. COBDEN—We have rather lost sight of this question
—( Hear, hear)—and I merely wish to say a few words upon
that pint. This is rather irregular; an unexpected debate
has arisen from a question put by the Hon. Member for Lime-
rick. The question is this—Whether the Noble Lord the
Member for Lynn, and the party connected with him, will be
willing to vote for the suspension of the corn-law for three
'Booths ; but this suspension is to be applicable only to Ireland.
Now, we have another proposition before us—not the suspen-
sion of the corn-law, but the abolition of the corn-law.—
( Hear, hear.) Then I presume, therefore, that this proposi-
tion of the Hon. Member for Limerick is, that instead of the
abolition of the corn-law for England, Scotland, Wales, and
Ireland, we are to substitute a three months' suspension of the
corn-law for Ireland alone. I beg, in the first place, to tell
the Hon. Member for Limerick that there are other parties
besides himself and the Noble Lord, and the 240 who sat be-
hind him, to lohis proposition.—( Cheers.) There are the peo-
ple of England—l do not mean the country party, but the
party living in the towns, and who govern this coun-
try.—( Ironical cheers from the protectionists.) The English
people, the Scotch people, the Welsh, and, I believe, the
Irish too, from what I have since heard, are determined not
to be deterred by the suspension of the corn-law—(Cheers
from the Ministers and free-traders)—bnt to have the aboli-
tion of the corn-laws.—(Continued cheering.) Now, I think
this matter has been determined out of this House long ago.
—( Tron',l! cheers from the prot”ctienfsts.)
.17.1 T.. r,,iolett
!f:i.,;, ails tia..v.,,r. a i.“., e;k:CCI-Iii:! cut, it,. .OL:gt; be I.ia,:t! a
matter of compact.—(Cheers.) It is disposed of and settled
out of doors ; and though you are rejoicing at the delay which
you have occasioned, that delay only shows in the minds of the