The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-03 00:00:00

Ve wit opposed to the abolition of the existing duties under
any circumstances whatever, and he would not therefore
consent to become his own executioner by supporting the
amendment of the Honourable Member for Wolverhampton.
The Right lion. Baronet gave protection to woollen and other
articles, and he (Mr. Palmer) was at a loss to know why corn should
not be protected also.—(Uproar.) The agricultural interest was no
trifle. (Cries of " Oh, oh.") The country required the agriculturist,
rina he did not see why one-fourth part of the population of the
country mould be called monopolists.—(Confusion.)—(Here the Hon.
Member proceeded to read some statistical returns, showing the
taxes paid on en acre of land, and making an average from that of
the gross taxation on land, but the uproar was so great that it was
Impossible to distinctly hear the Hon. Members remarks.) He con-
tinued to say that the measure would throw land out of cultivation,
and that the country would have to depend on foreigners for food.
but nevertheless he feared, from the unnatural coalition which had
taken place, that they had nothing else to expect. It appeared that
the proposition for a total repeal of the corn-laws would be sup-
ported by the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London
(Russell), and if such were the case he did not see why a second
coalition should not take place. The Hon. Gentleman concluded his
observations amidst loud cries for " Division" and " Adjournment."
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, if the House will allow me, I will
state what are my views respecting the various questions which are
now under its cousideration. I should not be inclined to vote for any
proposition that would not have for its object the settlement of the
corn -laws. I would not commit myself to vote for a proposition
which would continue agitation, and keep the farmers in a state of
suspense.—(Hear, hear.) Having been told in 1842 that the measure
then passed was a settlement of the question, and having found that,
In 1846, from the authors of that measure, that it was a complete
failure, and that the sliding-scale would not slide ; therefore, while I
regret that the Member for Lincolnshire did not concur with me on
a former occasion, yet, on the present occasion, I cannot agree with
that lien. Gentleman. With respect to the proposition of the Go-
vernment for continuing protection for three years, I think it is
liable to some objections.—(Hear, hear.) I come next to the propo-
sition at present before the House—the amendment of the Hon.
Member for Wolverhampton. Now, I must say, that, comparing
both propositions, if made by two Hon. and Independent Members of
the House, I should consider the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Wolverhampton the mere wise, as an abstract proposition.— (Hear.)
I think so because I consider that there has been very abundant har-
veets, and many others may happen which will materially alter the
view of the question taken by the Right Hon. Baronet—indeed such
may be the influence of abundant harvests, that the prices of corn
might be very material', enhanced ; such for instance as there has
been in Belgium and other countries. I think that that being the
case, if there is to be a repeal of the corn-laws, in an immediate repeal
there will be more safety to the agrieulture of this country than
keeping the question open for three years. The Right Hon. Baronet
says that if we were to have an immediate repeal, we would create a
panic, bat that a 4s. duty will prevent that. I cannot see that the
taking off all protective duty will cause a panic ; I think the farmers
will applytheir minds to the improvements in agriculture, such as the
eeience of chemistry pointed out to them, and such appliances will
guard them against anything like a panic. I think the Hon. Mem-
ber's proposition far better than three years of doubt.—(Hear, hear.)
For this reason and others -forthere are other reasons which I shall
not trouble this Committee by stating—l think the measure
of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton better adapted to
settle this question' than that of the Right Hon. Gentleman. I am not
aware what view the other House may take of this subject—l must
listen to what is said by the Prime 3linister who undertakes the
settlement of this question. He has undertaken it in a way which
is not entirely reprehensible, but of which, though I voted for it, I
did not entirely approve. He has undertaken it in a way which
in three years will produce the final settlement of the
question. The Right Honourable Baronet has given
the reasons which induced him to make this proposition.
Ido not think his reason a very good one. It could be more favour-
able to the landed interest, and I do not know what view the land-
owner will take, but the farmers do not appear to feel the value of
the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman. When the Canada
Corn Bill was brought forward, the Right Hon. Baronet said that
be was desirous to introduce a Bill which would give advantages to a
colony which it never had before ; and those advantages he was
Ob'iged afterwards to take away. lam afraid that the fact of
giving three years will hardly reconcile the landowners to the re-
moval of that benefit which load been unwisely bestowed from the
first. The Right lion. Baronet makes a strange statement, he says,
that although the House were to decide in Committee by a majority
in favour of immediate repeal, they should have his best efforts to
promote the success of that measure, and yet he says at the
same time that he will not answer for the result of that mea-
sure which he himself brought forward. I never think
it right to vote for this or any other measure or resolution of which I
should not think the success desirable.—(Hear, hear.) At the same
time, many gentlemen are in the habit of saying that they wished to
declare their' opinion in the abstract, and that they do not wish the
motion to be successful. The proper way to consider these things is
to ascertain if they wish the motion for which they are voting to sue-
seed. In this case lam to suppose that a majority is in favour of
any friend's motion, and my own name is amongst the votes. I give
in terms before the settlement of the question, and yet that would be
on a measure introduced by the Right Don. Baronet as an organ of
Government, and for which he declined to make himself responsible.
I cannot consent to endanger the measure proposed by the Right
Hon. Baronet, as I sincerely wish it to be carried. Upon weighing
the two questions, that proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet and the
one now before the House, I must say, with all due respect, I cannot
under the circumstances support the motion of the Don. Member for
Wolverhampton in preference to that measure which the Right Don.
Gentleman (Sir Robert Peel) has proposed. I believe myself, if the
lloase will carry that measure, as I trust it wil; oa the third
reacting, with as large a majority as it did the other day, on
the motion for going into Committee, I believe in that case the
Deese of Lords, respecting the decision of this Douse, will see the
polies, of acceding to the Bill, so that it may be at once carried into
effect. I feel on no other measure so much confidence of its being
carried as the Identical measure proposed by the Right Don. Baronet,
as any other might be considered as the measure of the Anti-Corn-
law League. Ido consider that if the measure could be carried by
the present Parliament without any dissolution, or any conflict of
interest', it would be of the very greatest advantage.—(Hear, hear.)
I believe that though, after the carrying of the measure of the
Right Don. Baronet, there may be som- excitement, but that excite-
ment will gradually subside, and whatever differences that exist
among various sections of society be little remembered in a few
years. That, speaking beside the corn question, is a most important
consideration with ins in coining to the conclusion which I have.
It is impossible not to see that a great popular agitation carried on
from year to year may extend itself to other subjects, so as to affect
most valuable parts of the institutions of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
With every avidity to see it settled, and weighing how the present
motion will act upon other questions that may require settlement,
I think, upon the whole, that the way in which I propose to act to
be that most conducive to the end in view—that is, sup-
porting, against the amendment, the proposition of the Right Hon.
Baronet. do not think that, on any question that may be
placed before the House, it can be shown on any grounds why it
should take the preference of the preposition of the Right Hon.
Baronet, considering time and circumstances—(Heer, hear)—the
general views of Parliament, and the ulterior consequences that may
ensue to the country.—(ilear, hear.) Having said this much, I will
beg leave to refer to a statement that fell from the Right Hen. Baronet
the other evening, when he said that if he had proposed a total and im-
mediate repeal of the corn-laws, this proposition would have failed.
Now I understood him, on a former night, to state that he regretted
that I did not undertake it. I was surprised at that statement,
because, although I fully believe that the Right Hon. Baronet would
have given me every support—would have fairly supported me
throughout any measure that he might consider a good settlement
of one question, yet I think he must have heard objections enough
since he accepted office, statements enough to convince him that those
who would have followed him in that course, and those who would
have susported me if I had been in office and he had been out of
office, would have . been a small number as compared with the 112
Members who usually supported him.—(Cheers.) My belief, I must
fairly state, is, that not more than forty, or somewhere about that
number, perhaps fifty, would have followed me on that question.—
(Ironical cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh," from the Tory benches.)
Some lion. Members may think that this number is exaggerated—
(llear)—but, at all events, I do not believe that even if all the
members of the Cabinet were going with me, en that occasion I
would have had a sufficient number to have enabled me to obtain
majority on the first proposition to go into committee.—(Hear hear,
and cheers from the protection party.) An Don Friend of mine has
stated to-night that he understood mo to say that I should he sorry to
see a dissolution of the Parliament because I did not expect that a
dissolution of Parliament would give a majority in favour of the abo-
lition of the corn. laws. My Don. Friend has not rightly understood me.
Mr. RIDLEY COLBORNE made a remark inaudable in the
gallery.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL--The lion Member Nor Richmond says he
so understood me. Sir, I stated that I did think it desirable that
no dissolution of Parliament should take place on this question.
think that a statement was also made that this house
of Parliament, this House of Commons is not competent to decide,
the question of the corn-laws. This statement is founded in igno-
ranceand misapprehension of the Constitution.—(Cheers.) I con-
sider that Parliament, as enacted, is to provide for the most im-
port nt affairs of the country,, whether foreign or domestic,
iteeeareing to the best of its judgment and dlse.tetion.—( Loud
cheers) I cannot conceive any assertion of an opposite doctrine—
any assertion that the House of Commons is aot competent to decide
such questions as the present, which would not lead to the doctrine
that it would not
Immediately
conpetent to decide any question
eo of great
the
mediately elected by the pple, for the
portance,
express purpose of so settling the question.—(Loud eiles
Of " Hear.") This would lead to the most democratic doctrines
am; could possibly be started, doctrines that would lead to an end-
less roma of annual Parliaments—which would lead almost to the
that unless elected for the particular purpose, Members are
convietiea Sir, I
in giving a vote upon any subject. speak of the
not justified
general power of the house of Commons—upon a question on which
no doubt has been expressed, namely, the great question that arose
after the settlement pf the house of Hanover, that the Parliament
which was elected for three years were perfectly justified in prolonging
their existence to seven, years, thereby saving the comitry from
anarchy and confusion. But if that were the case—if lam right in
that, then will any man say that the House of Commons, which was
tompetent to prolong its own existence from three years to seven
years, is not able to effect the settlement of the question with regard
to the duty on foreign corn ? There are other questions relating to
the union with Scotland and the union with Ireland. With
regard to particular Members—as to the engagements 'Mem-
bers may have entered into, and what their feelings may
as to their own private honour, or as to their public
character with respect to their constituents, I am not meddling
with that question. I ant only speaking of Parliament generally
, then, it is my view that this House, as at present constituted,
ils-'peellrfectly,competent to settle the question of the corn-laws, and
unless there was a very great public feeline, some great national
.•
ti 1 I t
feeling he other way, i conceive tha there ms no perso en o
radtict that assertion. I think itt likewise desirable thatt
there
=la aot be a dissolution, and the reason I think it would not bd
e
desirable IS, not that there would not be a Parliament which woul
ive a majority in favour of a repeal of the corn-laws,
g
belief Is, that there would be a majority, but
RS my
ny belief is that the majority would be attained
after a great collision of opinion, after every angry feeling had been
excited in the course of the election, and that majority would hardly
atter that election, have that weight with the other House of Parlia-
ment which I think the majority of the present House, with the
numbers which I have stated, is likely to have upon the decision of
that other House. I think that the whole question would be made
one much more than it now is of discordance between classes, and
we should be some 'years in a state of agitation on that subject, which
would be most injurious to the country at large. For this reason,
therefore—for this additional reason—l am going to take the only
course which seems to me, after pondering on this matter as seriously-
as I could. to be my ditty to the country, and I am going to take the
course of voting with Government against the amendment, and against
any other amendments that are likely to he proposed in Committee,
mid I shall be prepared to vote with them in every stage of the Bill,
for I think the interests of the country are deeply involved in the
speedy, the safe, and the tranquil settlement of this great question.
Mr. G. PALMER said he rose to say a very few words with regard
to tee vote he was about to give, but he had no wish whatever to
extend the debaie upon the corn laws. He had always stedfastly
and consistently voted against the motion of the Hen. Member for
Welverhampton, and it was still his intention to give his decided
opposition to the motion pf that lion. and Learned Gentleman.
Rot, however, ' that he gave a preference to the measure of the
Government. for he still cherished ft hope that as long
as a party could be found in that House, and so long as
A firm party could be found in another place amid out of that Douse,
t, at this measure might be defeated, and it was with that hope
that he stood up to oppose the amendment. He objected in
every ppint of view to the measure of the Government. Nothing
he could eenceive could be more objectionable ; not even the incon-
sistency whici: the Right Hon. Baronet had evinced with respect to
this question. if they were to haveo make ll
a change in the corn-
laws, the present was the time,p
rans
pd er not
t state,three
years hence, for they were at present
and the accounts with tenaets had been satisfactelily settled.
He did feel the greatest possible inclination ) toNtolo all he could to
oppose this measure.— (Protectiouist cheers. be would ask
any gentleman, supposing he was about to subril!rietrtwtta great change
•ampton. as had been described by time lion. Member for
be were about to change all at on
Sup-
pose, in fact,
a meal a-day ;or suppose ce front two meal
woay to oily half
great bodily exertion or labour from morning till night, Weela-i,;
idertake the task when he was healthy and strong in not
rather ut
hen his body was rotten, and about to fall b d aerie"-
ferenee to w
It was so with the body politic— ee
hter and cheers.) if we were to
(Lang c re, for 'leaven's sake, let us undertake the task when
adopt ierous condition, and when bread and everything
we were in a pfnel
cheap. 'He would prefer such a course for the
else was comparativelya for the sake of every interest, he would beg ee
sake of the poor, an
the great change at once.—(llear, hear )
silo sniffler"
House to let u
S of the next three years we should be
t tlle
It wo evident that a
Maim by the present measure, than we were
PI
'eta In a much Worse po
large stock of corn—(Hear,
"I" ill have hoar Up a
now ; foreigners w
would tend to eciate hereafter the pros-
hear)--and everything'
wuntry.
Helixould Ore voted for this
poets of ti:a farmers of this
I h mpton on the present oc-
pe ber for 1% o ver a
measure ofa..!meMem
ted against it on former oecaeions, he
elision, but as he had always voted
therefore vote against it
to he consistent, and should
was determined i
to him that the measure oft he
savor.--(Hear, hear.) It seemed
nor fiense ill (Cheers.)
]tight Don. Baronet ha 4 neither justice
t right In the
ale had stated theee, oplicielme, in order to se
egeert of his constituent..s.—(Clmre.)
arr. lIUmE said es loped that on this Oe e sion the speech of the
Noble Lord would teach Weep who were now ebtellt to divide, the
ranks of those who sat upon his (3ir, Hume's) side of the IlOnse, what
course they should adopt. After that speech lie thought that every
individual who was anxious to carry this nleaStire ought to give
his utmost support to the Right Hon. Baronet in carrying this
measure through the Committee.—(Cheers,) lie wile for his own
part perfectly satisfied with the measure of the Right ilon.
Baronet, and it was one, which, in his opinio.n, must be equally
satisfactory to t:-,e country. At the same time lie must confess
that If the question could have been dually settled without any
lurther delay, it would have given hint much satisfaction But
after what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet he thought
qt' was clear that the voting for
the proposed amendment would bo
the great question, and it was on that ground that lie
(3lr.
persist
t theott,ay arrement.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," and " Oh,
ob.") A. fight 'II after
the speech of the Noble Lord, and also
that of the •-• . on. Baronet, he for one would notvote for
BO 'telat WICK rose amidst cries of "
Mr. P. Olt, oh ' and laugh-
ter, to say the ""`
would move an adjournment.
a Ott4N BY did not think
The Dlarquiethat, according to the
cgeowledgment, he could
Noble Lord's , have carried such a
immure as the pasent !)y a fgeater majority than about 40, If the