The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-13 00:00:00

THE SUN! LONDON, SATURDAY
_EVENING, JUNE 13,. 1846.

donian Insurance Company Bill—City of London Coal Market
and Improvement Bill—Graveaend and Milton Waterworks
Bill—Plymouth, Devonport, and Stonebouse Railway Nil,
without amendment—Friendly Societies Bill—Liverpool Docks
Bill—Warrington Waterworks Bill—Kendal Union Gas and
Water Bili—Po•t Ellen Harbour Bill—Scottish Midland Grand

Junction Railway Bill—CofclmsterYStour, Valley, &c., Rail-
way Bill—Hartlepool Gas and Waterworks Bill—Stowmarket
Navigation Bill—Lincoln Waterworks Bill, with amendments.
And to the amendment to the amendments to Clyde Dock
and Harbour Bill, without amendment. That they hav,s
passed a Bill, intituied, " An Act f,,r makinz two several por-
tions of a Rails, ay Communication from Dublin to Enniskillen,
with a Branch to Bel'urbet," Also, a B 11, intituled, "An
Act to enable the Londonderry and Enniskillen Railway Com-
pany to alter and extend the line of the said railway, to make
a Branch therefrom to the town of Omagh, and to amend the
Act relating thereto "
PROTECTION TO LIFE (IRELAND) BILL.

Mr. ROSS said that he had given a silnit vote against
the first reading of this Bill. He had listened, with the
closest attention, to the statement made by the Right Hon.
Baronet, tend had finally, on considering the circumstances put
forward, felt it his duty to give such a vote. His vote had
not been given on account of the severity of the Bill, nor was it
on account of the inconvenience it would occasion to the dis-
trict placed under its operation. It was not on
account of the innocent persons who would be
inconvenienced, for he thought that if a Government was
convinced of the strong necessity for such a measure—if they
did find it necessary to depart from the laws and consti-
tution of the country—it was the part of a wise states-
man to adopt such measures as would most speedily re-
store tranquillity. He had heard, in the first instance,
a long bead•r'll of atrocious crimes committed; bnt the Go-
vernment had now changed their grounds, and the Noble Lord,
the Secretary for Ireland, had brought forward a list from
which the more atrocious crimes were carefully omitted and
the smaller species of offences had been alleged.
Would the Government pretend that such offences as those
alleged in the Act before him were a sufficient justi-
fication for the application of such a measure?—
'could it have been done in Scotland or England? Every one
knew that the more serious crimes had been very much on the
decrease lately. Even if they were not, would such a
measure restrain those assassins who committed these

crimes in the broad noonday 2—( Cries of " Hear.")
The Noble Lord (the Earl of Lincoln) had admitted that a
great portion of the offences which were committed in
Ireland took their origin from agrarian causes. If
they had equal rights with England with regard to electo-
rial and municipal matters, and ecclesiastical arrangements,
based upon common sense, and agreeable to the
fselings of the great majority of the people of Ireland, they
weuld want no coercion, nor would England hear so much of
her complaints and crimes. He believed that an Irishman
was too contented an animal ; he thought it would
be better for his interest if he was not so. If
he had but a roof over his head, and could meet his friends
with a good basket of potatoes and salt, he would be as happy as
any Hon. Member in that House. The external situation of
the Irish people was similar to the condition of
the French peasants under their seioneurs and Norman barons

in the middle ages,. The first remedy which he thought should
be adopted for this state of things was a just and equitable
arrangement of the question of compensation to tenants,
and a fair adjustment of the law of tenant rights.
Many Hon. Gentlemen had taken great, interest in the waste
lands' question. He believed that by a wise legislation
on that subject much substantial good could
be effected to the peasantry of Ireland, and a race
of yeomen raised up which, instead of becoming
convicts, would be in time an ornament to the country.
If measures of amelioration and improvement failed to produce
their proper effect, then there might be some grounds for the
strong hand of power to interpose. He hoped they would soon
see the dawn of better days and better times for Ireland. In-
deed he thought, from the present tone of the Legislature to-
wards that unfortunate country, that improvements would =oon
develope themselves, and the people become more contented
with their conditi',n, and more patient under suffering.
Mr. 41. MILNES said that. the Bill had come down to them
under rather curious circumstances. It was to the moral effect
of the measure, and not to its political effects, they
had been told to look. They had further been told
that it was not desirable for them to reject the
consideration of the measure which had been proposed
to them. He conceived that of late circumstances
had changed. If the effect of the proposed Bill was to put
down the outrages which, unfortunately, had taken plate in
various parts of Ireland, hew was it that the Iri>h Members,
who might be supposed to be laet acquainted with the means of
suppressing those outrages, were one and all of them stronelv
opposed to the Bill ? A measure of the present kind derived
a great deal of its authority from the parties who promoted it,
and he did hope that if the Ministers retired from office on this
unhappy question they would go with the conviction that this
measure had not been calculated to do justice to Ireland.
The direct consequences of the rejection of the Bill would be,
perhaps, the resignation of the Ministry ; but should such an
event happen, he would maintain the opinion which he had all
along maintained, that it would not be injurious
either to the Ministers themselves or to the country.
—( Hear, hear.) If the Bill were lost it would be by the
co-operation of those Hon. Gentlemen who had all along been
most severe in the policy pursued towards Ireland. He hoped
the time would come when the Irish Ministers would consider
themselves as linked in one, and regard themselves as a part of
one great and undivided empire, under the beneficent rule of
one sovereign.

Mr. P. SCROPE observed, that her Majesty's Government
contemplated a double object in their proposed measure ; viz.,
to put an end to criminal outrage ' and, secondly, to protect
life in Ireland. It was said that disaffection in Ireland was a
chronic disease, but the disease did not exist in the outrages
but in the cause of them. These outrages, it was universally
admitted could not be ascribed to sectarian or political feelings ;
to what cause, then, were they to be ascribed? • It was to the
struggle for the means of existence which was going on among
the peasantry of Ireland. They had not a right to life; there-
fore, they endeavoured to secure that right by combinations
among themselves, which eventually led to outrage. It had
been stated that not one-sixth of the outrages were agrarian,
were not connected with land ; but it would appear by Lord
Devon's Commission that at least five-sixths were agrarian.
The evidence of Colonel Miller would not bear out the state-
ments of the Noble Lord. ( The Hon. Member here referred
to the statements of the Gallant Colonel, with reference to
outrages resultng from the enforoomant of the claims of con-
acre, and which he considered as purely of an agrarian cha-
racter.) The Hon. Member considered, that out of the 895
crimes alluded to by the Noble Lord in the report, as com-
mitted in the counties of Leitrim, Clare, Limerick, Ros-
common, and Tipperary, 490 of them were agrarian outrages.
Lord LINCOLN—There are 1,120 cases mentioned in the
report.
Mr. P. SCROPE had perhaps omitted a page, or by mis-
take turned over two at once. It would not, however, affect
his argument, the mistake would be as good for one side as the
other.—( Laughter.) The Hon. Member went on to say that
he considered a considerable number of outrages, contained in
the report under the head of " cause unknown," arose
from the present high price of provisions ; indeed, he
thought that nine-tenths of them could be included under
that head. Extracts were read by the Hon. Member from
the minutes of the evidence taken before Lord Devon's Com-
mission tending to show the large majority of the cases of
agrarian outrage over every other form of outrage, and the in-
disposition of persons to give evidence against any persons
committing these outrages. He (Mr. P. Scrope) contended
that the proposed measure would not stop these outrages. The
Rill was called " Protection to Life " Bill. The Government
should remember that life in Ireland was destroyed by other
means than that of the assassin. The system of effecting
wholesale clearances such as those which had lately been made
upon Mr. Gerard's estate was literally a sentence of death
upon these poor persons. They had nowhere to go, they
could not be on the highways nor lie in the ditches. Dr. Doyle
had traced thirty families, who had been ejected by this means,
who had been compelled to crowd together in a small hovel,
where the foul air generated fever and other fatal diseases, and
in a short time only te-enty-one of the thirty families were left
alive. He did not blame the landlords for making use of the
power which the present law gave them. He blamed the law
which gave such power to the landlords, and did not afford any
protection to the helpless evicted tenantry. Landlords thought
themselves justified, and were entitled by the law to do so, if
they thought it benificial to their interests, to clear their
estates of a number of their tenantry, and leave them, in con-
sequence of that Act, to starve or perish for want. It was not
to the interest of the landlord himself that he should do so.
Such was the state of things in Ireland •, and he maintained that
while the people of that country paid their rents, and cultivated
their farms, it was most improper that they should be driven
off in the manner which had been the case with so many. As
an illustration of how the landlords of Ireland ought to conduct
themselves, he would refer to the case of a landlord in the
county of Kildare,_ who, finding that the tenants on his estate
could not meet their engagements or pay their rents under
their old arrangements, set about to make a new arrangement.
He did not drive the poor creatures forth, but instead of doing so,
he remodelled and consolidated his farms, and set those that were
disposed, to work on the waste lands. Not a single person
did he evict. A gentleman who visited the locality last year,
described the parties set to labour on these waste lands as in a
very flourishing condition. Another gentleman, in the county
of Galway, in the management of his estate, had acted in
a similar manner. This was' the way in which
the landlords of Ireland ought to conduct themselves.—
(Hear, hear.) The land of Ireland could not only support
the present population, but five times the number. Professor
Kane and Mr. Blacker had shown, that by the present system
of agriculture it could support forty millions of peaple. The
land, therefore, was useful for the maintenance of the people,
and the landowners ought to be coerced to allow the people to
cultivate the soil, instead of driving them forth. He had
spoken strongly on the subject, but he considered it was ne-
cessary that correct opinions should be placed before the
House on the question of the state of Ireland. The labours
of the Devon Commission, as well as all other inquiries, had
shown that the contest for subsistence, and the mode in which
property was employed, were at the bottom of nearly all the
outrages that prevailed. He was satisfied that before long
public opinion would operate to bring about a healthy and
proper state of feeling on the important question on which he
had occupied the attention of the House.
Lord BERNARD protested against the reflections employed
against the landlords of Ireland as proceeding from ignorance
of the real state of things in that country.—(Cheers.) He
was quiteplearnsudadweedrethqataitthee
air
well disposed
iospfeestieductantionnetanhdumsatanne.liy-
inc. in Ire
. .
and" considerately towards their tenantry as any landlords of the
same class in this country. To show the inflJerce for good of
the inatvenerable which
Judge Burton,
who resided (Cork ), he
wougn tl
de ry
refer of
ttnh
ae leahragrege y le eonufn t
the
of the county, which
duct of the landlords residinghe in
Hear, hear.) But sup-
posingwho in it complimented thaeitgrirbannidetd'utrny
tohnethnheapreaaecteerabalendnactnunre.
Ireland
till that was no
them, s
had described
for Stroud (Mr. Scrape)
i
the landlords of were such as the Hon. Member
the outrages of the
valid objection to this Bill. He supported stuhpeported the Bill because he
honestly believed it necessary protection of life and pro-
perty in Ireland, and calcslated to prevent
well-disposed counties of that country. A
put it to the Noble Lord
five counties complsine I of extending to Htnee
,puenaicreraile)lde the
as an Irisn Member, and he
the Member for Lynn, to consider it calmly, and not he led
away from any feeling of hostility to the policy of the Govern-
Ireland since he Rill was in
reent on another question, t d y protection to the ',Perla of
Ireland. The N' -ible Lord' hado' sniiid. ,I):tt crime had reduced in
Bill was no
the result of the mural
necessary ; bat to that
he (Lord Bernard)
avlvzifld say was not that improvement
.roduced, and that the
the House of Lords?—(
Hear,
of the measure having passed
to he put into full effect, it cro'uhl Inn be ) If
iit
deniedwetrheantotihreeqfaucitr required
much an Act being in existence wouldi exercise a moral and
ts.oaldutimariyoii3nt,flutheencaemoovuerritth.7
omuit.rcalsgeof
the
came im people,
and do much
before
ethatht
the House.
On these grounds he supported the Bill
The Noble Lord opposite had failed in his
policy towards Ire-
land mainly because he and his party truckled to the Hon. and
Learned Member for Cork.—(Hear, hear.) That pars}, failed
because they abandoned the principles which the people
of England had expected them to carry out ; and
although Honourable Gentlemen opposite might deny
the fact, he believed it was indisputable that the
late Government failed because they abandoned the
Protestant principles—(Cheers, and laughter)—because they
brought forward measures most destructive to the church
of Ireland —(Hear) —they brought forward measures which
were considered as detrimental to the interests of the Pro-
testants of this country. (Hear, hear.) And he would
isk Hon. Gentlemen opposite whether they were prepared

to transfer the Government of this country to other parties than
those who at present inherited the Crown of this country..—were
they prepared to transfer the Government in accordance with
the wishes of the enemies of the Protestant Church in this
country ?—( Hear, hear.) One of the Hon. Gentlemen who
spoke the other evening the Hon. Member for Kerry—
alluded to a case which was merely of a local nature. The
Hon. Member alluded to a case which he alleged had taken
place in the county of Cork, on the subject of the Arms Bill,
and he said that the magistrates there had, in that in- tance,
proved themselves guilty of political partisasnhip. Now,
a statement more utterly unfounded was never uttered
in that House. The simple fact of the case
was that a session of that county was held, and out of 700 ap-
pliiants for licence to possess arms, only four were denied their
request, and of that number a few were members of the Repeal
Association—they were mostactive members of that dangerous
organisation. They might say that such a measure was not
necessary, but he could not forget what had occurred a few
years ago in the county in which he resided. He could not
forget the monster meetings that were held in that part of the
country—meetings which were sanctioned and aided by the
clergy of the Church of Rome residing in that county, which
showed that they had either lost the influence which they
formerly possessed of restraining the people, or that they must
have urged them on in their clamour for repeal. And he
would here beg to read an extract from the address of the ma-
gistrates of that county, addressed to the Lord-Lieutenant,
ou the subject of those monster meetings. They
stated that if such a state of things were to be per-
mitted they should not have any similarity for their lives
or property, and that as many of them as could do so would be
oblige., to leave the country, for the most alarming demonstra-
tions had been continually made. Signal fires were frequently
to be seen burning on the top of the hills, and the peaceable
and loyal portion of the people might well be alarmed. Now
it was said that similar outrages to those committed in Ireland
were also perpetrated in this country, but Hon. Gentlemen
who said so forgot the circumstances that made the outrages
in Ireland of a far more appalling character. There was a
fearful mystery connected with outrages perpetrated in Ireland ;
they were of that description of crimes which had been termed
agrarian. They were not mere party fights, they were not
sudden impulses of revengeful feelings, but they were plotted
by midnight legislators—they were the results of an organised
system of ribbon conspiracies in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He
solemnly believed that it was the ribbon conspiracy that pro-
duced all these frightful outrages in Ireland, that conspiracy
was at the bottom of every one of them.—(Hear.) They
might talk of the relations of landlord and tenant, but if they
were wrong let them alter it by a proper mode of legislation—.
(Hear, hear)—and not deceive the geople by holding out to
them assurances as to remedial measures which they never in-
tended to fulfil. Let them first vindicate the law—( Hear,
hear)—and then, he trusted, they would follow up their
coercive policy by the introduction of remedial measures for
Ireland—remedial measures not of a political character, which
would only be followed by fresh demands—(Cheers and
counter-cheers)—each political concession had had that effect.
Let them look at what had been said by the Hon. Member for
Kerry, when his Noble Friend, the Secretary for Ireland,
alluded to a measure which he (Lord Bernard)
deplored, and which he had opposed in that House
—he meant the grant to Maynooth.—(Loud cheers and
laughter.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite said that they did not
thank the Government for it.—( Hear, hear.) Well, he knew
that that was the case—he knew that no political measure what-
ever would have any value whatever in Ireland. All previous
concessions had signally failed. The Hon. Memher for
Drogheda said, would they aeopt a similar course if Yorkshire
were in the same state as Ireland ? But if Yorkshire were in
that state would not the torrns of that House be suspended for
the pnrpose of passing wi h all haste such a Bill as that which
was then before the Hotie,e ?—( Hear, hear.) Would any fierce
opposition be given to it ?—( Hear, hear.) Would there be
any coalition of party to endeavour to upset the Government?
( Hear, hear.) There was one subject incidentally brought
forward by the Hon. Member for Limerick, in his address to
the House late on the last evening of this debate, when he
taunted the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary-at-War fur
attributing to a Member of his party the impeta.tioz,
of attempting to dismember the empire. Now to that
Honourable Gentleman, or to any of the Repeal
Association, he need not for a moment impute any but
the most perfectly loyal feelings towards the Sovereign
of this emplie. But would any one connected with Ireland,
or any one who had read her former history, say that the pro-
gress of repeal would gradually lead to the dismembering of
the empire.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord then proceeded,
amidst cries of Qaestion, question," to complain of certain
corporate officers in Ireland attending in their robes for the
purpose of paying honour to the Hon. and Learned Member
for Cork, whilst he was undergoing a sentence pronounced
upon him by the highest judicial court in Ireland, for having
attempted to separate the two countries. He also charged
those individuals with having abused their trusts by handing
over a portion of the corporate funds to the purposes
of the Repeal Association. He then proceeded to defend
the judicial appointments of the present Government, and
particularly eulogised the conduct of Mr. Justice Jackson.
Another Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the dismissal of ma-
gistrates in Ireland; he did not believe that the administration
of justice had suffered from that consequence in Ireland.—
( Hear.) There was another question to which allusion had been
made in that House, and on which he wished to offer a few ob-
servations—viz., the Church in Ireland. He had the evidence
of the Hon. Member of Cork, and other Members, as to the
eligibility of admitting the Catholic claims with respect to reli-
gion, and this opinionsvas concurred in by Lord Monteagle, when
Mr. Spring Rice. Tha Church of Ireland, they had been
told, was the great grievance in that country. He could speak
from personal knowledge, that the Protestant Church was in-
creasing in Ireland ; and the clergy, though they did not preach
politics from the altar, were fully efficient to discharge the du-
ties of their office. A great deal of blame had been very
justly thrown upon the absentees of Ireland, and the ill effects
had been endeavoured to be met by laying a tax on the absen-
tees, but a greater fallacy never existed than to attempt a re-
medy by such unequal measures. There were other evils
which no law affecting the land would ever remedy—namely,
the absence of those in possession of funded property. A suf-
ficient remedy might be found, if the good feelings of those
who absented themselves from the country were appealed to.
Their patriotism would be found the best resource, after all.
He would ask,

" Lives there a man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself has said,
When coming from a foreign strand,
This is my own, my native land;
vvnose neart has never witut.

As home his footsteps he has turned?"
Coercive measures would not suit the genius or the people of
Ireland. He would implore the House to develope the native
resources of that country, to cultivate the great moral maxim,
" Know thyse;f," and render the social soil more amenable to
a social system. He could not but hope that the day was not
far distant, when there should be only one common danger and
one common safety in that country, and that union should pre-
vail throughout.

Mr. REDINGTON wished to know what there was in the
speech of the Noble Lord which had to do with the question
before the House? He would advert to the very few points
which bore upon the question. The Noble Lord had said there
was a conspiracy throughout the land. Ile would maintain
that no conspiracy existed, but merely the natural desire to be
protected from oppression. He had ben informed that the
Land Commission had moved for certain returns which would
show that the great majority of the crimes in Ireland were
agrarian. He believed it to be so ; hut he did not think that
thot new idea could be justified when every little pickpocket
offence was included in the category. In his opinion, the
Ministers were fully ju.tified in pressing their proposed mea-
sure. The returns upon which Hon. Members were called
upon to pass the present Bill were not at all correct. (The
Honourable Member here pointed out several dis-
crepantHe (Mr. Redingtou) had had a note
senthilmes:)
threatening to shoot him, but subsequently
he received another offering, upon payment of the sum of 305..
to wieldraw carrying the threat into effect. He would call
the attention of the House to some of the outrages del sited iii
the reiurin One of these outrages, tailed an outrage on pro-
perty, was on a house, the owner of which refused to illuminate
the house on this liberation of Mr. W. S. O'Brien.
He (elr. Reilington) did not know how far
the House would sympathise with such an at-
tr ck. It certainly w.,s not of the nature
to call for a Coercion Bill. He considered that the present ill
feeling which existed in Ireland between the landlord and
tenant arose from the cinfiscations which had originally taken
place. In the province or Ulster, for instance, there was
scarcely one landowner who was not of foreign origin. He
thought this was a po:nt worthy of observation in making a
comparison between England and that country in the relation
of these parties. To justify himself for referring to these
facts, he would take the libel' y of reading the evidence of a
Censervative gentleman with reference to agrarian outrages.
( The Hon. Member here referred to the evidence of this
gentleman, from which it appeared, that in his opinion, the
struggle which was going on between the tenants and the
small proprietors for the possession of the land, added to the
circumstance that both these parties were of different religions,
greatly contributed to produce this unhappy result.) The
Hon. Member went on to say that he thought Parliament
owed something to Ireland for allowing a continuance of such
a system of things. He considered that the humane motives of
some Hon. Members could not be carried out. always by the
landlord with reference to removing the occupiers of land
from one portion of his estate and locating them upon other
portions of the estate. He would not for a moment defend
those wholesale ejectments which had lately taken place. He
thought it was the most difficult position for a humane person
to be placed in who wished to remove from his estate a number
of individuals and interests which had grown up around him.
He did not deny that much evil and crime existed in Ireland,
but he denied that any such a Coercion Bill as the present
would cure them. The law ought to be vigorously exerted to
meet the disease, and they ought not to be continually calling
in the aid of special measeres. Mr. Valentine, the Crown
Solicitor of Munster, gave it as his opinion that the best mode
of dealing with the outrages in Ireland was by a s;:ringent ap-
plication of the present laws. That opinion was entertained
by every well-informed person in Ireland? If they attempted
to enforce the provisions of the present measure, they would
find they could not succeed, and that it would generally prove
a failure. Let them prove that the existing law was insuffi-
cient, before having recourse to these extraordinary powers.
Special Commissions had already been tried in Roscommon
and elsewhere, and they had not been complained of, but
were found successful. Let them enforce the existing laws
vigorously, and he had no doubt but they would be found sue-
o e sT• f uel
what he (Lord Lincoln) had said the other evening respecting
o
t
Commission
ynn'
ss
involved
meawtdshme
arti
tesons
hai Commission.
hnt
imply
actuated
,Ort,
dgban
inquiry,
ypr ofyrahe,
he or
feel-
ingaot
nnho and
therefore cahl aer:i smjytv
precon-
ceived (fhafi si.tonE—harg'
partiality.e)
things he
Hhiereme ntmfahsbrhi
~,noerngolsl
vtdf' LlNCOLNalolhrtfLah. that
tt)goit.
rulihedak,
Devon's
deoioiiefmdsn,hd. fallened from t in the Hon. Haonn e. xApj leamn abteiro na
as
re-
gardingt
to
e
leant in a particular direction in this matter.
Mr. SHAW wished to explain the vote he was about to
give, as, if the division did not take place that night, he would
not have an opportunity of speaking on another evening. Ile
intended to vote for the seccnd reading of the Bill. Seeing
the iisorganiseci state of Iselancl, he was bound to take that
course. If report spoke truly, the Noble Lord who perhaps soon
would he in office, aid who had been in oftlee a short time
lost November. lit d he succeeded in forming a Ministry, he
would have proposed a much- more stringent measures.—(Hear,
hepeaceable tl well-disposed people
of Ireland
d nI
d u Fore themasske o
mast support th an
dl
t'the measor.-; still he was bound to
say ' h
thick that the Bill would he really effeetive.—
( Hear, hear. ) The great defect which he saw in the Bill
Iva. the scant of a coin eten
t tribunal to sit in the disturbed
districts, and tile ci,rizlnee
of cases, fair which the ordinary
h ht if the Bill did not
r',ho a
means were not competent. He tcug,
pars—if it was defeated—the Government would have them-
selves to blame. It was introduced at the beginning of the
session into the House of Lord., where it was much diluted,
ti
it haded after a very slow progress,
sent
stage. The Government had in fact ~hown no desire pus
f
two months ago.( Lear.) The Government, instead
forward the 13:11, else it might have been the law the lir
(l
of
doing so had, forwarded the Corn Till with the greatest
possible speed,
vote for the
ground. The Government, in fact, had not shown any
Ministry ; he ha,l no
real disposition to carry
while this Bill had been kept in the back-
the Bill. He did not
whether the tAhie,rnAbleinrisfotrrythweencittyoouftthe
Ireland required somßiellmeafsruormeceofinatnhiyet,kicno;fidelnfeedil'nnot care
confidence but because the state of
Londonup'on the.
Dameß had
dobioe
predilection for the Whig • pis icy, still, if Whig policy was ici - prevail, he would much rather hays it openly front the Noble

Lord than from the present Government, which had been
elected on other pi inciples. In the memory of living man
Ireland was never in so happy a state, and yet the Corn Bill
was carried through that House by means of the gross exaggera-
tion respectinz the poverty of that country.—(-Hear, hear. )
The present Government had the knack of making. themselves
more unpopular than any Government which preceded them,
and he really believed that, in their Government of that
country, they had reversed the maxim, " be just and fear not,"
for from first to last they had feared to be just towards
Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) They had ruled on the old Anglo-
Saxon principle of "divide et impera." The Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government could not satisfy
his opponents, and he proceeded forthwith to
introduce measures which had the effect of dissatisfying
his friends. The truth was, they knew very little about Ire-
land.—(Neer, hear.) In his opinion, they knew less of the
manners, habits, feelings, and character of the people of that
country than of the inhabitants of the moat remote country in
the world.—( Hear, hear.) They had fancied, like some old
the women,Right t that it
Hon. was
Gentlemanftill of
theho Secretarybgoblins,
for ghosts, t
h&ee . ;
Homean D
d yete-
par De-
partment, whosince ktnheew
yseoarlittle o.f go-
vernedlHreelanhde,pehdadthaerbNitreabrleilyLordopposite (Lord J. Russell), if he came into government, would
take warning by the example of the present Government.
Above all things, he would recommend to the Noble Lord and
Hon. Gentlemen opposite to bear in mind that there was no-
thing so pleasing to the Irish people as just and generous con-
duct.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the Noble Lord would
eschew tne old prejudicial system of preferring strangers to
natives in the appointment of Government officers.—( Cheers.)
He could assure the Noble Lord that he would be able to select
men of confidence and high character—men that knew
Ireland—not men that were brought thither to spend
the first half of their time in unbecoming English
prejudices and the other half in beginning to knew the Irish
character, and were then taken away so as to afford an oppor-
tunity for another stranger to come in to go through the same
routine. He could he repeated find in Ireland men equally as
well adapted as Englishmen to fill an y situations which the
Government had in that country. Now, if the Noble Lord
would pursue that course he would do much to advance the
prosperity and happiness of the Irish people. Well as the
Secretaryship for Ireland had been filled by the Noble Lord
the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, whilst the
Whigs were in dice, vet he (Mr. Shaw) doubted whether
even be was sufficiently acquainted with Ireland to discharge
those duties in a satisfactory and efficient manner. He would
undertake to say, on behalf of himself and those around him,
that if the gentlemen opposite came into power they
would at least find them candid and generous opponents.—
He apologised for having digressed so much on the subject
of the general Irish policy of the Government. He admitted
that he did not think that the Bill itself would be beneficial.
He repudiated the notion that his vote on this question should be
regarded as a vote of confidence in the Government. On the
contrary, if the Government were defeated as he believed they
would be, and if in consequence they resigned office, he
thought it would be but a merited retribution for the most un-
precedented and grievous political and party misconduct.—
(Protectionist cheers.) He thought that if they fell as a
Ministry they would fall unregretted ; he said so with the most
unfeigned concern, and his greatest grief was this, that whilst
he was obliged to speak of the Government as a body political
in these terms, he did entertain for many individuals composing
that Government the most sincere respect and esteem—
(Laughter)—but this he-would say, that speaking politically—
and he was anxious to state this broadly and wholly irrespective
of the merits of the corn-law question—and he was bold to
affirm this, that if the Government or the present Administra-
tion should be overthrown by the voice of the representatives
of the people, that not only this country, but the whole world
would regard it as a righteous verdict and a just national judg-
ment upon public men for a great public delinquency.—( Hear,
hear, and laughter.)
Mr. DILLON BROWNE said that the speech of the Right
Hots. Gentleman who had just sat down must give the greatest
satisfaction, as it w s indicative of the conciliatory course here-
after to be taken by the Protestants of Ireland towards their
Catholic fellow-countrymen. It was clear that what was destruc-
tive to the Catholic must also be injurious to the Protestant,
and that what was death to Connaught and Munster must be
contagious to Ulster, and it would best advance the interests of
both parties if they were to join in furthering the good of their
common country. The Right Hon. Gentleman represented
the University of Dublin, but certainly if he Isere to take the
speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman as a sample of the logic
used in Dublin, he must certainly say his premises did not
justify his conclusion. He made a speech against the Coercion
Bill, whilst he voted for the Coercion Bill. He did not even
adduce a single argument in favour of that measure, and yet he
was prepared, though his whole speech tended to a different
direction, to vote for the measure. Now, he did not mean to
say this disrespectfully of the Right Hon. Gentleman, but he
was afraid that his vote on this question was influenced by
an ambition to be the future Secretary for Ireland.
The Members of the Government had not made out a case in
justification of this most coercive measure. The speech of the
Noble Nord, the Secretary for Ireland, was made for the pur
pose of establishing two points—the existence of crime, and
the necessity of removing it. The Government had shifted
their ground on this question, and the speech in question had
been a perfect failure. The speech of the Right Hon.
Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department was made
for the purpose of proving that it was necessary to suspend
the Constitution with respect to Ireland, thus establishing a
fatal precedent for future Governments. They must try a sys-
tem of conciliation, and by a redress of grievances endeavour i
to effect a cure for the moral and political evils of Ireland.
Were they acting justly by the people of Ireland
by hunting them down by the " great-guns" fired off
by the Right Hon. Baronet, or the " pop guns " shot off by
the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland. One of the rea-
sons alleged for bringing in this Bill was forced marriages in
Ireland.—(Laughter) Another reason was the number of
outrages of an agrarian character in that unfortunate country.
He found, however, that cut of the six thousand reported,
there were not really six hundred which arose from causes
connected with the land. The Hon. Member read a list of
agrarian outrages in England, to show that crime was more
prevalent in that country than in Ireland. Her Majesty's
Government had done much for Ireland; he did not wish to
test their actions by the vulgar rules of arithmetic— (Hear,
hear)—they had come forward in the late crisis in a manner
that reflected the highest credit on themselves, as had already
been acknowledged in that House by the repeal Members.
Sir R. PEEL said that the question which they at present
had to decide was nos they should enter into t,oni-
mictee on cue LIM WhlCh had been introatieen by tho Govern-
ment for the protection of life and property in Ireland, or
whether measures would be introduced for the purpose of pre-
venting the outrages which had been committed in that
country. The question which the House had to decide would
be whether they would reject altogether the proposal of the
Government, whether they would refuse the consideration of
this question, whether they would imply that the present con-
dition of Ireland could be dealt with by the existing laws, or
whether there should not be some additional protection for the
purpose of giving that security to life and property which was
so much required in that country. He regretted that
disease existed, but he felt it necessary to vindicate
the course which the Government had taken on this occasion,
but he would take care to limit the consideration of the ques-
tion within the narrowest limits. He acknowledged the cor-
dial support which the Government had received from Hon.
Gentlemen opposite throughout the progress of those commer-
cial measures which had been ratified by that House, and he
thanked those Hon. Members for the concurrence they bad
thus given to those questions. That concurrence, however, did
not impose any obligation on them ; they were not required to
give their support to measures which they might consider of
an unconstitutional character. He would give them the credit
that they did not desire that Ireland should be made the arena
for the settlement of disputes. He believed that these Hon.
Members would well consider whether or no this proposal of
the Government was justified by the circumstances of Ireland,
and whether it was desirable to object to a measure
which had for its object the quietude of that country, without
any reference to mere party considerations. Her Majesty's
Government thought it their duty to propose another measure
than the existing law would warrant, because they found
that in certain counties in Ireland there prevailed a system of
outrage which set at defiance every authority of the law. They
found that in fonr or five of the counties in Ireland there had
been a system of grievances and danger to life and property
which peremptorily called for the intervention of the Govern-
ment. Her Alajesty's Government found that in some of the
counties there had been murders, and it was with the greatest
difficulty the murderer could be discovered; and it was found,
also, that the contagion spread to the neighbouring counties,
and the Government, therefore, found it their duty to bring
under the consideration of Parliament a measure having
fur its object the giving of additional powers for
the maintenance of the peace of that country. Among the '
strenuous opponents of her Majesty's Government, he found
the Hon. Member for Belfast, who had opened the debate
this evening. The Hon. Member said, that the system of
outrages which had occurred in some parts of the country was
such, that he would willingly acquiesce in some measure
for remedying the evil. The Hon. Member stated that
he would prefer a suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act to
the present measure. There had been only one argument
which he had heard adduced by the Hon Member, and that
was the " housemaid-argument." The Hon. Member stated
that his housemaid, hearing of the disturbed state of Ireland,
declined to accompany the Learned Judge to Ireland.
Some interruption here arose from the Hon. Member for
Dublin.

Sir ROBERT PEEL would ask his Hon. Friend to repeat
what he stated upon the subject ?
Mr. SHAW stated that what he referred to was to illustrate
that from the highest to the lowest there existed a state of igno-
rance on the condition of Ireland.

Sir R. PEEL had certainly heard another account of this
matter, and that while the mother of the housemaid—

(Laughter)—was afraid of the Curfew,
.ieto:tnhrii:yenahoitsuneoetmaster of the
servant was actually pressing the measure upon the Govern.
ment, stating that if the measure had been brought forward
en the first day of the session, it would have passed without
opposition. Now with reference to the speech of the Hon.
Member for Stroud (P. Serope), he stated that these combi-
nations for outrage were only the natural necessity for poor
relief, and considered that there would be no chance of obtain-
ing tranquillity for Ireland until they gave to the Irish peasant
a right of relief from the land, Other persons thought that
this would be an unwise provision, and that it would lead to
the confiscation of property. But said the Hon. Gentleman,
no
untilt i
~Itotu lianw
loreflanthai,s
annadturetiothoenl)reanslaenatns hasto
which° he could resort for the purpose of ridding himself
from these distresses were these combinations.—(Cheers.)
What a melancholy picture did this present of the state of '
Ireland 1 The Right Hon. Baronet then referred to the evi-
tpoasslivae
dence of Mr. Conden, showing the difficulty of obtaining
evidence in cases where murders had been committed. The
Government did not propose this measure because they thought
it was the only remedy applicable to the state of Ireland. Far
from it. It was with the utmost reluctance they proposed the
present measure. Other remedies were proposed, calculated
to effect a permanent good. They were fully aware that the
Goverment should be conducted with kindly and indulgent '
feelings. They were fully aware that these measures were
required for the purpose of producing an effect which tempo-
rary coercion could never pretend to effect. But, while
they admitted that this was the most imperfect
:pith
oi
aslt ii,sei
had
dsr at
ab ,
Hnet oeeefnar
measuret.
vghpwa uresaoms i
proposed
onst eteti, conditionidee
against
ing
remedy, they felt that if the House permitted
m1(11 ue
that such ne';:uoh e crimes
y 1 t ah se
then
theysh o
show
weret
h a
te learsismihee had'l --
crime to be rampant and uneontrolle,l, they were negl-et- 1
ing their duty to the parties who were exposed to these Acts.
The eihnissiens which had been made by gentlemen connected
ggfdthy.
this
teth:ai:etrAi er;:niospnmuei
uncalled
niarEtfi i
uerll
beay:
,y,rt,!
right
iv,i:ga:hanstt.uhtlraolteti.hettoi,:npietitohebsneereaseplttriiii:ea
stated
tepiaa,ilrti, present
that crime had been greatly reduced in Ireland. He thought
latelylnd i
anl madeleo
owrt,o)ou
nidou other
amelioratetsiiteorp measures.t theiro
inquire this was owing to the gra•eful feelings towards the Government
fsih slplonldorbethitehemesaitereo: crlifmteheiny
which had been found in the minds of the generous people of
the wilds of Connaught. and Aluoster, fur the great exertions
con-
ditionwltir leelcadinel
Ireland.
ply7y theGLt
eeogtivnreettrtrhntoeoni
Id
ihm:oit htli classifiedjes:riiheadt asii
dn
ct3/4h,
they
yhr
the introduction
present corr?e c t
took the erirnee of an aggravated character, leaving out of con-
sideration such r•ffer.ces as edministerng unlawful oaths--if
they took the crimes of murder or homicide, firing at the person,
assault, and attempt to take life, incendiarism, and such like
offences, they had the strongest evidence of a most disordered
Iwhich, though
1 state of society in Ireland, for
L eion might be no permanent cure, yet things had arrived at

1 such a height that no other resource was left. If the ordinary
law was paralysed, some extraordinary measure of this kind
must be brought into operation. What was the case with the
five counties which had been so often referred to in the course
of these discussions as illustrating the amount of crime
last year, as compared with the five first months of
the present year. He would compare the total offences
commited in them in 1845, with the offences of five months
ending in May in the present year, as a reply to the argument
which had been employed, that the state society had been
much improved, and that the measure was not required. The
results in the two periods were to the following effect—he re-
ferred to offences of an insurrectionary character. In Tippe.
rary, in 1845 the tetal number was 842; in the five months of
1846, 368. In Limerick the number in 1845 was 282; in tire
five months of the present year it was 248. In the county of
Clare, last year, the number was 271 ; in the five months of
the present year it was 181. In Roscommon, last year, the
number was 659; in the five months of the present year, 471.
With regard to Leitrim, he rejoiced to say that there had been
a great improvement, but he must observe that it had
been occupied by an overwhelming military force, and
great exertion had been made by the magistrates and
local gentry. In this country the number of offences in 1845
I was 814 ; and in the five months of the present year only 164.
—( Hear, hear.) This was the total for the first five months
of the present year, and supposing that the same increase of
crime should go on for the remainder of the year that had
taken place in the five months, in that case in the five counties
the number in 1846 would be 3,013;as compared with 2,026, the
number of 1845.—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") In Leitrim
the reduction had been most material, for while the number in
1845 was 814, at the rate of the first five months of the present
year, the number in 1846 would be only 414.—( Hear, hear.)
Leaving offences of an insurrectionary character, he would pro •
ceed to those of an aggravated nature, such as homicides, firing
at the person, aggravated assaults, assault and threatening life,
and firing into dwellings ; and he would compare the offences
of 1845 with the same crimes in the first five months of the
present year. In the first five months of 1845, the homicides
were 20 ; in the five months of the present year, 28. Cases
of firing at the person in the first five months in 1845,
40; in 1846, 41. Aggravated assaults in the first five months
of 1845, 85 ; in the present year, 121 ; assaulting and threat-
ening life, in the five months of last year 41 ; in the present
year, 53 ; firing in dwellings last year, 46 ; in the present ,
year, 68. Could any one, with these facts before them, say
that there had been a diminution of crime such as to justify ,
the Government abandoning the measure? Taking the aggre-
gate of offences he fonnd, from the printed returns from the
Ist of January to the end of May, that the total of offences in
all Ireland was 2,093, while of these 1,188 were in the five ,
counties of Tipperary, Limerick, Clare, Roscommon, and Lei-
trim. Thus of the offences committed in all Ireland one-
half of them were committed in these five counties containing
but one-sixth of the population.—(Hear.) They could not
assign any such cause as the relation of landlord and

enant as being the cause of this state of things.
The whole state of society was diseased, and because
it could not be met by ordinary means be asked for a topical
remedy. Of the I,leB offences, Tipperary had 286, Clare
171, Roscommon 383, Limerick 210, and Leitrim 138. Out
of the whole of these 1,188 offences there had been but 54
convictions.—(Hear, hear.) Let them conceive the melan-
choly spectacle it presented, and say whether some extraordi-
nary measure of this kind was not required. According to
the returns of homicides or murders, be found in the five
counties, that in February, 1846, the number of homicides or
murders was 18, and 26 attempts at murder. In March there
were 23 murders or homicides, and 14 attempts at murder.
Was it possible they shoull not deal with such a state of things?
No alteration in the law of landlord and tenant would come
in operation to meet this state of things. Let them
consider the class of parties that were the victims; they
would find that they were persons in the humblest walks of
life. (The Right Hon. Baronet here read an extract from the
document in his hand, to the effect that persons in the poorest
walks of life had been attacked.) This (he continued) was the
class of persons that lost their lives in Ireland, and they might
conceive what must be the amount of apprehension, anxiety,
and fear, that prevailed, where murders were committed night
after night. Admitting that the remedial measures proposed
by Hon. Members on the other side of the House were cor-
rect, when there was no evidence of their being immediately
brought into beneficial operation could they dispense
with some temporary measure to meet the present state of
things. It would not interfere with the operation of any
remedial measure they might propose, while it would prevent
the growth of crime. During the five years that a similar
law was in operation, it was found that the fear of it was
sufficient on the minds of the people without bringing it into
actual operation. From the consideration of these facts, he
felt it his duty to press forward the second reading of the Bill.
He knew not of anything more he had to say in vindication of
the Government, in proposing the present measure for putting
and end to crime and to restore confidence. Here he was
willing to dismiss the question, but he felt it imperative to
notice the speech made the last night of the debate by the
Noble Lord the Member for Lynn (Lard G. Bentinck) He
( Sir R. Peel) deeply regretted, not only for his own sake, but
for the character of the House, that during the present
session for the first time a license of speech had been
used which he felt assured would prove most
injurious to the cause of free discussion. During a
parliamentary life of 35 years he had not witnessed any exam-
ples of such proceedings.—( Hear, hear.) He had sat in Par-
liament in times of great excitement, and he believed it possible
to conduct debates in that House with every latitude conducive
either to free discussion or the interests of the public without
doing anything to lower their characters as public men.—
(Hear, hear.) But if the Noble Lord's proceeding is to be
considered parliamentary, it behoved him (Sir R. Peel) to
say it must not be one-sided. —( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Their sense of justice would induce them to give all parties
the same freedom of speech that was claimed by
those he had alluded to.—( Hear, hear.) They would not
refuse to give those who were calumniated and maligned the
same justice to defend as they had been attacked. He hoped
they would maintain him in the course he was about to take,
and he should endeavour to do nothing inconsistent with his
position as a public man ; but should he step beyond the rule of
strict propriety, he hoped they would not forget the provo-
cation he had received.—( Hear, hear.)—He would endeavour
not to forget, as he had ever remembered the position in which
he was placed, as the Prime Minister of the country, charged
with the proposal and conducting of more important
measures than had ever been submitted to
Parliament by any public man.—(Hear. hear.) But
there were bounds which ought to be respected by every
one in such matters. The Noble Lord had said not merely
that her Majesty's Government despaired at the ultimate suc-
cess of carrying this measure, but be presumed to say that
they were not in earnest in passing this measure.—(Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord had given them his support during
the progress :of the measure, but he ( Sir R. Peel) had not
characterised them as " hired Janissaries" because they had
avowed their intention of now turning round and opposing the
Bill. Gentlemen exercising their free right of judgment upon
public matters had been denounced by the Noble Lord as base
renegades. The Noble Lord had exercised his private right
of varying his vote according to his sense of public duty. He
thought the Noble Lord voted last year against restrictions
upon factory labour, and voted for them this year, and without
being questioned by any one as to the purity of his motives.—
(Hear, hear.) He thought the Noble Lord was prepared to
support by far the most absurd and impracticable
measure, namely, the permission to import foreign grain
into Ireland, but that permission was not to extend to England.
—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Noble Lord, he believed,
voted for the first reading of this Bill, upon the ground that no
matt could safely go to church—( Hear, hear)—that old
women—(Laughter)—could not go to church without being
subject to constant danger—that women with children in their
arms were assassinated—that there was no security for life and
property ; and that he and his friends, without respect to party
considerations, were determined that this licence should not be
tolerated upon the pretence of this Bill being
contrary to constitutional liberty. Well, the Noble Lord was
prepai ed to vote against this Bill.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
The Noble Lord said he would withhold his confidence from
the public, and he thought himself justified to vote against the
measure; but if the Noble Lord claimed for himself the
privilege of varying his vote, let him (Sir Robert
Peel) tell him that be was bound to withhold
from others such expressions as paid janissaries and renegades.
—( Cheers.) Why, who were the men who were included as
Janissaries ?—( Hear, hear.) He (Sir R. Peel) looked upon
them, and he did not name them because they were more parti-
cularly eminent, or more particularly entitled than others. He
believed that every man who had given him support, had given
him that support from pure and honourable motives. But was
it t o be tolerated that such Members as his Right Hon. Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or Lord Francis Egerton,
or Mr. Wilson Patten—(Cries of " Order, order.")
He begged pardon for mentioning names, but
was it to be said that because they exercised
that public right which every public man might
exercise, that such men were to be branded with the names of
paid Janissaries and renegades?—( Hear, hear.) He did be-
lieve that such language was not only calculated to impede free
discussion, but he believed that if such language was permitted
it would create unmitigated disgust.—(Loud cheers.) Let him
now proceed to notice the personal attack which the Noble
Lord had made upon him. He was glad he did not act upon
the impulse of the moment, and immediately reply to the
attack made upon him. The Noble Lord referred
to circumstances which had now passed, he believed,
about 19 years, and he ( Sir Robert Peel) being then
in imperfect recollection of the exact state of the affair, re-
joiced that he did not give an answer to those personal allega-
tions till he had an opportunity of ascertaining how far they
were well founded. That attack was made in the presence of
many members who were entering Parliament new for the
first time, and who, perhaps, had an imperfect recollection to
what the Noble Lord alluded, and he was particularly anxious
that however hostile they
.might be to his policy, they should
not remain under the impression that the Noble Lord's

allegations were calculated to create. (Hear, hear.)
couched in these words—" The Noble Lord said that
was That particular attack to which he was referring,
tos
rr remember,
cahnads e
dr e
anni edmhbuenr t withed a
nht-
iel
laus-
(Lord Bentinck) to death—(Hear, hear)
—tfherelionussoathrreoeollwadgivoteehunanootdufghhthehisat though he had changed his opinion on
the question of Catholic emancipation, in 1827, he yet professed
to hold the same opinion in 1829, and that he had communi-
cated his change of opinion to the Earl of Liverpool ;
but that did not prevent him, in 1827, getting up in
the same assembly and stating that he could not support a
Government, of which the chief Minister was favourable to a
measure, which, in two years afterwards, he ( Sir R. Peel)
intended to carry. That was the statement of the Noble Lord.
The Noble Lord said that he very well recollected the time.
No doubt he did, because he was at that time a Member of the
House of Commons, and the Noble Lord heard all that

passed. It was now nineteen years since that transaction oc-
curred, and seventeen years since the speech was made in
1829. Well, now, he (Sir R. Peel) must say that he did re-
spect the feelings of the man who felt uneasy at the conduct
that had chased his relative to death. The Noble Lord
abhorred those who tried to hunt and chase a public man who
was acting in the performance of his public duty__( Hear,
hear.) But if that man was chased and hunted to death as
his relative, his feelings were to be respected in the highest
degree. But how came it that, entertaining those feelings, the
first time he (Sir Robert Peel) ever heard of them should be
in this present session.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) The
Noble Lord had been a Member of Parliament since 1826.
(Lord George Bentinck expressed dissent.) He inight be in
error, but since the year 1835 he thought he
had been honoured with the Noble . Lord's cordial,
ard, he must say, most pure and disinterested support.
Since the year 1835 the Noble Lord had called him his Right
Hon. Friend.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) And he was at
the same time cognizant of all these transactions. He per-
mitted him to be the leader of the party to which he belonged
—( Hear, hear)—and never until the month of June, 1846,
did he harbour such language with respect to the man who
had hunted and chased his relative to death. Now, he (Sir
Robert Peel) would say that the entertainments of such feel-
ings by the Noble Lord was highly honourable. They
were a part of his honourable political principles. The
lapse of time, and the change of political circumstances,
might compel combinations of politics unforeseen by those
part:es who were their opponents. But the Noble Lord, be-
lieving that he had hunted and chased his relative to
death—he did not understand how the Noble Lord, without
making any public or private intimation to him of those
feelings, consented to accept him as a leader, and call him
his Right Hon. Friend.—( Hear, hear.) Now, he (Sir Robert
Peel) was going on the assumption, that this charge against
him was founded on fact. He was proceeding on the
assumption that he really did inform Lord Liverpool in
1825 that his opinion had changed upon the Catholic question.

• The gravamen of the Noble Lord's present imputation on him
[ I was this, that he declined to act with Mr. Canning in 1827
that he de-lined to act—to continue to act as Secretary of
State ,• and Mr. Canning having been appointed Prime Minis-
ter, that, in 1827, when about to propose the removal of
Catholic disabilities, he then admitted that in 1825 his
opinions were changed. Now he was going to prove to
the House that that charge was utterly unfounded—that
he made no declaration in 1825, which he did not make in
1827, in the presence of Mr. Canning, and that declaration
was not that his opinion was changed in 1827; and he did ask
the Noble Lord on what principles of fairness or justice he
now came down for the first time to the House, to make this
charge against him without having ascertained the truth ?
That which ho said in 1829, this subject, corresponded
with that which he said in 1 rich he said in the presence
of Mr. Canning himself, and . h Mr. Canning was cogni.
sant.—( Hear, hear.) The • t Honourable Baronet
having quoted his speech the period in question
proceeded to say, that Mr. Caneitag, in 1827, assented to his
(Sir R. Peel's) conduct, and, he continued, that he had by no
means hunted and chased Mr. Canning to death. In January,
1828, the Duke of Wellington was called into power, and after the
explanations of 1827, on the death of Mr. Canning, a proposal
was made by which he (Sir R. Peel) continued in Government;
and if the Gallant and Chivalrous Marquis of Anglesey, Mr.
Huskisson, Lord Melbourne, and others had considered that he
bad hunted and chased the Noble Lord's relative to death, he
did not think that they would have acted as they did
at that period. No such charge was preferred against
him even by the nearest relative of that illustrious statesman.
But with that he had no concern. He referred only to the con-
duct of those Noblemen and Gentlemen as a proof that they
did not participate in the feelings expressed the other night
by the Noble Lord. But this he would say, that the! charge
of the Noble Lord with respect to his change of opinion was
utterly and entirely destitute of foundation.—(Cheers.) He
foresaw when he undertook to propose these measures the oppo-
sition they would receive in that House—he foresaw the bitter
hostility to which he should be subjected in the execution of his
public duty. He had explained the motives which led him to
think that the public interest required an adjustment of the
Catholic question—he foresaw the consequences of the acts to
which they would inevitably lead— Le foresaw that that ques-
tion would probably lead to the breaking up of private friend-
ship. He might have been in error as to the course which he
pursued on that occasion, but he utterly denied having been
actuated by impure or unworthy inotlves.—(Loud cheers.)
That he wished to interfere with the settlement of this question
by the Noble Lord who was absent to-night, that he wished to
fortify himself by power, that he was influenced by any desire to
court popularity—to gain distinction or advantage at any time,
he declared that the imputation of motives so base would be as
foul a calumny as vindictive spirit ever uttered.
Upon the motion of Mr. O'CONNELL the debate was
adjourned.

Sir G. CLERK then postponed the consideration of the
resolutions on the gauge question from Monday until Tuesday
next.

Lord LINCOLN brought in the three Bills which he brought
forward yesterday evening, which were read a first time.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock.