The Sun.
London, England, 1870-05-14 00:00:00

EPPING FOREST.

Mr. HUMS asked the First Lord of the Treasury
whether the Government would be able to introduce their
scheme for the preservation of Epping Forest during the
present session.
Mr. GLADSTONE replied that the Government expected
to be able to do so.
POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS WITH AMERICA.
In reply to Mr. BAINES,
The Marquis of HA.RTINGTON said he had received a
ommunication from the Postmaster-General of the
United States with reference to the mail service between
the two countries, but he was sorry he could hold out no
lopes of any acceleration in the transmission of the mails
w long as the two packet companies declined to accept the
tern= nro nnnecX. '

HOMELESS POOE.
On going into Committee of Supply,
Dr. BREWER called the attention of the house to the'
unsatisfactory working of the regulations in force to
secure the humane intentions of the Legislature in behalf
of the homeless poor, consequent on the practically indis'
criminate distribution of relief given to the whole class of
applicants, criminal or not criminal, impostors, or
genuine poor; and moved that vagrants applying for
shelter and food shall be put under the protection, reg-ul
tion, and management of the police. The hon. gentle-
man went very fully into the subject, and quoted very
largely from statistics bearing upon pauperism in this
country. The vagrant classes, he argued, constituted
too complicated and dangerous an element to be entrusted
to any but the direct executive of the country. He con
tended that the large proportion of criminals must be
separated from the defenceless and accidentally poor.
Mr. B. DAISENPORT seconded the motion. He had
long been of opinion that the police should have control
over vagrants. At the same time, he did not think they
should stop there. They must attempt to modify he
instincts, and the instincts of a vagrant were preda-
tory. He urged the necessity of educating the children
of vagrants, so that they might not follow the evil courses
of their parents.
Mr. CORRANCE thought the House was indebted ti
the hon. gentlemen who had introduced the subject.
He believed that vagrancy and pauperism were distinct.
The hon. gentleman expressed an opinion that the Govern-
ment ought to have taken the matter up, as it was one of
the utmost urgency and importance. He then proceeded
to read a number of extracts to shew the number of
houseless poor and tramps, and the means taken for
accommodation, but he considered that the only real
means of decreasing tramps would be to have a strict and
accurate supervision ; that they should, in fact, be ticketed
by the police, and that the Home Office should take the
matter in hand in place of the Poor Law Board.
Mr. STAPLETON thought it was clearly the duty of the
Home Department to take the most active steps to put
down the harbouring of vagrants, and to see that the tramp
discharged from the workhouse in the morning should not
spend the day in begging and then on coming to the next
parish turn into the casual ward for the evening.
Mr. READ was firmly of opinion that if the house re-

pealed the hawkers license they would open
the floodgates of vagrancy in the rural dis-
tricts. He thought that if every vagrant
_ .

was compelled to take a cold bath on his admission
to the vagrant ward, such an arrangement would soon
reduce the number of applicants for the accommodation.

Mr. W. H. SMITH thought that if a system similar to
that adopted at the Depot de Mendicite, in Paris, was
organised in this country, the best results would follow•
The education that was forced on the vagrant in France
was work, and it was so regulated in the Depot he had
referred to that the weak a s well as the strong had to perform
their allotted task. He was strongly in favour of the
utmost care and tenderness being taken of those whose
misfortune was not attributed to their own imprudence;
but, unfortunately, that was not the class of persons who
filled our workhouses, and therefore some very stringent
measure, such as a labour-test, should be insisted on.

Mr. GOSCHEN said that he and Mr. Bruce had been try-
ing to devise a scheme in order to put a stop to the evils
complained of. It was a mistake to suppose that there
was any divided responsibility between the Home Secre-
tary and himself. They had worked harmoniously
together, and had tried to arrive at a settlement of the
question, but it was impossible unless the public co-operated
with them. Vagrants, remarked the speaker, tended to
feed permanent pauperism, inasmuch as when a vagrant
became sick he became an habitual pauper. It
was impossible by the stringency of the casual ward to
diminish vagrancy, because the casuals did not care what
sort of a ward they slept in so long as they could find a
soft-hearted public during the day. Many remedies had
been tried, but he was disposed to try the power of deten-
tion, which meant a kind of imprisonment. He thought
it might be useful to consider the expediency of changing
the definition of a roving vagabond in such a manner that
a certain number of applications at the casual ward should
constitute an offence. He did not reject the idea of
utilising the police force, because he thought that in
places where the workhouse staff was small the vagrant
ward might with advantage be at the police-station.
Sir MICHAEL HICKS BEACH spoke of the action taken
by the Poor-law Board just before the late Government
quitted office, with reference to the question of vagrancy.
He believed what was really wanted above all else was a
uniform system of dealing with the subject throughout the
country. So long, he observed at the close of his speech,
as the public gave alms to an idle and undeserving class
vagrancy would exist.
Colonel DYOTT disapproved of the proposal.
Sir J. C. LAWRENCE observed that there was a tendencY
to regard all vagrants as vagabonds, but he knew from ex.-
perience that a large portion of the London vagrants
were those who had been suddenly deprived of the means
of employment. He believed that the power of detention
would prove of great advantage, although he was not (UP
posed to sanction more than 48 hours' detention.
Dr. BREWER then withdrew his motion. grants