The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-13 00:00:00

AMENDMENT BILL.

donian Irmrance Company 1111—City of tonsinn Coal Market
and Improvement Bill—Graveaend and Milton Wat,rytotks
Devonport, and Stonehousn Railway Bill,
without amendment—Friendly Slaieties Bill—Liverpool Docks
Bid—Warrington Waterworks Bill—Kendal Union Gas arid
Water Bill—Port Eden Harbour Bill—Secttish Midland Grand
Junction Railway Bill—Colchester, Stour Valley, &c., Rail-
way Bill--Hartlepool Gas and Waterworks Bill —Stowmarket
Navigation Bill—Lincoln Waterwork: Bill, with amendments.
And to the amendment to the amendments to Clyde Dock
and Harbour Bill, without amendment. That they have
passed a Bill, intituled, "An Act f making two several por-
tions of a Railer ay Communication from Dublin to Enniskillen,
with a Branch to Beliurbet." Also, a B ii, intituled, '5 An
Act to enable the Londonderry and Enniskillen Railway Com-
pany to alter and extend the line of the said railway, to make
a Branch therefrom to the town of Omagh, and to amend the
Act relatine thereto "
PROTECTION TO LIFE (IRELAND) BILL.

Mr. ROSS said that he had given a silent vote against
the first reading of this Bill. He had listened, with the
closest attention, to the statement made by the Right Hon.
Baronet, and had finally, on considering the circumstances put
forward, felt it his duty to give such a vote. His vote had
not been given on account of the severity of the Bill, nor was it
on account of the inconvenience it would occe.ion to the dis-
trict placed under its operation. It. was not on
account of the innocent persons who would be
inconvenienced, for he thought that if a Government was
convinced of the strong necessity for such a measure—if they
did find it necessary to depart from the laws and consti-
tution of the country—it was the part of a wse states-
man to adopt such measures as would most speedily re-
store tranquillity. He had heard, in the first. instance,
a long bead rolL of atrocious crimes committed; bnt the Go-
vernment had n'bw changed their grounds, and the Noble Lord,
the Secretary for Ireland, had broueht forward a list from
which the more atrocious crimes were carefully omitted and
the smaller seecies of offences had been alleged.
Would the Government pretend that ouch offences as those
alleged in the Act before him were a sufficient justi-
fication for the application of such a measure?---
ts ould it have been done in Scotland or England? Every one
knew that the more serious crimes had been very mu h no the
decrease lately. Even if they were not, wou'd such a
measure restrain those assassins who committed these
crimes in the broad noonday ?—( Cries of " Hear.")
The Noble Lord (the Earl of Lincoln) had admitted that a
great portion of the offences which were committed in
Ireland took their origin from agrarian causes. If
they had equal rights with England with regard to electo-
rial and municipal matters, and eccleiias.ical arrangements,
based upon common sense, and aereeabie to the
feelings of the great majority of the people of Ireland, they
weuld want sin coercion, nor would England hear so much of
her complaints and crimes. He believed that an Irishman
was too contented an animal ; he thought it would
be better for his intere.t if he was not so. If
he had but a roof over his head, and coul I meet his friends
with a good basket of potatoes and salt, he would be as happy as
any Hon. Member in that House. The external situation of
the Irish people was similar to the condition of
the French peasants under their eeieneurs and Norman barons
in the middle ogee. The first remedy which he thought should
be adopted for this state of things was a just and equitable
arrangement of the question of compen'ation to tenants,
and a fair adjustment of the law of tenant rights.
Many Hon. Gentlemen bad taken great interest in the waste
lands' question. He believed that by a wise legislation
on that subject much substantial good could
be effected to the peasantry of Ireland, and a race
of yeomen raised up which, instead of becoming
convicts, would be in time an ornament to the country.
If measures of amelioration and improvement failed to produce
their proper effect, then there might be some grounds for the
strong hand of power to interpose. He hoped they would soon
see the dawn of better days and better times for Ireland. In-
deed he thought, from the present tone of the Legislature to-
wards that unfortunate country, that improvements would soon
develope themselves, and the people become more contented
with their condition, and more patient under suffering.
Mr. O. MILNES said that the Bill had come down to them
under rather curious circumstances. It was to the moral effect
of the measure, and not to its political effects, they
had been told to look. They had further been told
that it was not desirable for them to reject the
consideration of the measure which had been proposed
to them. He conceived that of late circumstances
had changed. If the effect of the proposed Bill was to put
down the outrages which, unfortunately, had taken place in
various parts of Ireland, how was it that the Irish Members.
who might be supposed to be best acquainted with the means of
suppressing those outrages, were one and all of them strongly
opposed to the Bill ? A measure of the present kind derived
a great deal of its authority from the parties who promoted ie.
and he did hope that if the Ministers retired from office on this
unhappy question they would go with the conviction that this
measure bad not been calculated to do justice to Leland.
The direct consequences of the rejection of the Bill would be,
perhaps, the resignation of the Ministry ; but should such an
event happen, he would maintain the opinion which he had all
along maintained, that it would not be injurious
either to the Ministers themselves or to the country.
—(Hear, hear.) If the Bill were lost it would be by the
co-operation of those Hon. Gentlemen who had all along been
most severe in the policy pursued towards Ireland. He hoped
the time would come when the Irish Ministers would consider
themselves as lint ed in one, and regard themselves as a part of
one great and undivided empire, under the beneficent rule of
one sovereign.

This Bill was also read a third time and passed.
LIVERPOOL SANATARY REGULATIONS BILL.
Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS moved the third reading of
this Bill, which was agreed to and passed.
GLASGOW, AIRDRIE, AND_AIONKLAND JUNC-

TION RAILWAY BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
LEITH PAVING BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
SOUTHPORT IMPROVEMENT BILL.
The Lords' amendments on this Biil were considered and
agreed to.
YORK IMPROVEMENT BILL.
On the motion of Mr. B. DENISON, this Bill was read a
third time.
Up to five o'clock the time of the House was occupied in the
reception of petitions on private affairs.
EDUCATION IN WALES.
Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition from a place in Rad-
norshire, praying the House to take into consideration the state
of education in Wales.
RAILWAYS.

THE St‘ LON 17", ON3 SAT IT P. :10 A 5:/ EVENIN

Leta than from the present GevernMent, which had been
lected on other principles. In the memory of livine n
Ireland was never in so happy a state, and yet the Corn Bit
was carried through that House by means of the gross exaggera-
tion respecting the poverty of that country.—(Bear, hear. J
•I'he present Government bad the knack of making themselves
more unpopular than any Government which preceded them,
and he really believed that, in their Government of that
country, they had reversed the maxim, " be just and fear not,"
for from first to last they had feared to be just towards
Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) They had ruled on the old Anglo-
Saxon principle of " divide et impera." The Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government' could not satisfy
his opponents, and he proceeded forthwith to
ntroduce measures which had the effect of dissatisfying
`ils friends. The truth was, they knew very little about Ire-
land.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion, they knew less of the
nanners, habits, feelings, and character of the people of that
eountry than of the inhabitants of the most remote country in
the vvorld.—(Hear, hear.) They had fancied, like some old
women, that it was full of hobgoblins, ghosts, 8,:c.; and yet
he Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home De-
partment, who knew so little of Ireland, had arbitrarily go-
verned it since the year 1845. He hoped the Noble Lord
eppo,ite (Lord J. Russell), it he came into government, would
ake warning by the example of the present -Government.
above all things, he would recommend to the Noble Lord and
;lon. Gentlemen opposite to bear in mind that there was no-
-hing so pleasing to the Irish peopl' as just and generous con-
duct.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the Noble Lord would
eschew tae old prejudicial system of preferring strangers to
natives in the appointment of Government officers.—( Cheers.)
tie could assure the Noble Lord that he would be able to select
nen of confidence and high character—men that knew
Ireland—not men that were brosght thither to spend
he first half of their time in unbecoming English
erejudices and the other half in beginning to knew the Irish
tharecter, and were then taken away so as to afford an °prior-
entity for another stranger to come in to go through the same
eutine. He could he repeated find in Ireland men equally as
veil adapted as Englishmen to fill any situations which the
f;overnment had in that country. Now, if the Noble Lord
would pursue that course he would do much to advance the
erosperity and happiness of the Irish people. Well a 3 the
teretaryship for Ireland had been filled by the Noble Lord
the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, whilst the
Whigs were in office, vet he (Mr. Shaw) doubted whether
wen he was sufficiently acquainted with Ireland to discharge
those duties in a satisfactory and efficient manner. He would
indertake to say, on behalf of himself and those around him,
• hat if the gentlemen opposite came into power they
,vould at least find them candid and generous opponents.—
le apologised for having digressed so • much on the subject
if the general Irish policy of the Government. He admitted
hat be did not think that the Bill itself would be beneficial.
He repudiated the notion that his vote on this question should be
regarded as a vote of confidence in the Government. On the.
contrary, if the Government were defeated as he believed they
would be, and if in consequence they resiened office, he'
hoeght it would be but a merited retribution for the most un-
irecedented and grievous political and party misconduct.—
, Protectionist cheers.) He thought that if they fell as a
Ministry they would fall unregretted ; he said so with the most
unfeigned concern, and hie greatest grief was this, that whilst
he was obliged to speak of the Government as a body political
in these terms, he did entertain for many individuals composing
'hat Government the most sincere respect and esteem—
;Laughter)—but
rtmhethmise,
.ILaughter)—but this he'would say, that speaking politically—
andr
ti
ht sa
to
if thhee
Gcoovrenr .nlmawenroersttihone—p
raens de .nht eAwdams
ibnoi
sl dt r
at
u.
:o
he was anxious to state this-broadly and wholly irrespective
tion should be overthrown by the voice of the representatives
of the people, that not only this country, but the whole world
would regard it as a righteous verdict and a just national judg-
ment upon public men for a great public delinquency.—( Hear,
hear, and laughter. ) _ _

Mr. DI LCON BROWNE said that the speech of the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down must give the greatest
satisfaction, as it w a indicative of the conciliatory course here-
after to be taken by the Protestants of Ireland towards their
Catholic fellow-countrymen. It was clear that what was destruc-
tive to the Catholic must also be injurious to the Protestant,
and that what was death to Connaught and Munster must be
contagious to Ulster, and it would best advance the interests of
both parties if they were to join in furthering the good of their
common country. The Right Hon Gentleman represented
ihe University of Dublin, but certainly if he were to take the
speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman as a sample of the logic
used in Dublin, he must certainly say his premises did nut
justify his conclusion. He made a speech against the Coercion
Bill, whilst he voted for the Coercion Bill. He did not even
adduce a single argument in favour of that measure, and yet he
was prepared, though his whole speech tended to a different
direction, to vote for the measure. Now, he did not mean to
-ay this disrespectfully of the Right Hon. Gentleman, but he
was afraid that his vote on this question was influenced by
an ambition to be the future Secretary for Ireland.
The Members of the Government had not made out a case in
justification of this most coercive measure. The speech of the
Noble Nord, the Secretary for Ireland, was made for the pur
pose of establishing two points—the existence of crime, and
the necessity of removing it. The Government had shifted
their ground on this question. and the speech in question had
been a perfect failure. The speech of the Right Hon.
Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department was made
`or the purpose of provi:!g that it was necessary to su pend
he Constitution with respect to Ireland, thus establishing a
anal precedent for future Governments. They must try a sys-
iem of conciliation, and by a redress of grievances endeavour
'o effect a cure for the moral and political evils of Ireland.
Were they acting justly by the people of Ireland
by hunting them down by the " great-guns" fired off
by the Right Hon. Baronet, or the " pop guns" shot off by
,he Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland. One of the rea-
sons alleged for bringing in this Bill was forced marriages in
Ireland.—(Laughter) Another reason was the number of
,utrages of an agrarian character in that unfortunate country.
{e found, however, that cut of the six thousand reported,
here were not really six hundred which arose from cause.
connected with the land. The Hon. Member read a list 0!
agrarian outrages in England, to show that crime was more
prevalent iu that country than in Ireland. Her Majesty's
Government had done much for Ireland; he did not wish to
rest their actions by the vulgar rules of arithmetic— (Hear,
hear)—they had come forward in the late crisis in a manner
that reflected the highest c-edit on themselves, as had already
been acknowledged in that House by the repeal Members.
Sir R. PEEL said that the question which they at present
had to decide was not whether they should enter into Corn-
itiittee on the Bill which had been introduced by the Govern-
tnent for the protection of life arid property in Ireland, or
whether measures would be introduced for the purpose of pre-
venting the outrages which had been commi;ted in that
country. The question which the House had to decide would
be whether they would reject altogether the proposal of the
Government, whether they would refuse the consideration of
this question, whether they would imply that the present con-
.fition of Ireland could be dealt with by the existing laws, or
whether there should not be some additional protection for the
purpose of giving that security to life and property which was
so much requirad in that country. He regretted that
disease existed, but he felt it necessary to vindicate
the course which the Government had taken on this occasion,
but he would take care to limit the consideration of the ques-
tionf
eadtt Gentlemen
aaeua
llunns
measuresksntNgVluceeil
podvtmphne toesinhnntriottttsoouwhept
which
hoihoHoncsinarrowest
oethlneilc.hhthueht
viaedis
otae cbt
nigtenl
Governmentebhiesmreonirui
st
throughout the
t for
arfiie
petderhoh
oenba
gadcycrcuketor shnnrs
concurrence,
otnwu
receivedeeHrt
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uoesefesewdr
from
mthovhmeae eynr
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:doe
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not impose any obligation on them ; they were not required to
n
give their support to measures which they. might consider of
thenleymrbeHe would give them the credit
that they did not desire that Ireland should be made the arena
For the settlement of disputes. He believed that these Hon.
feerrsewn :et:
Governmentldt
to mere
es r
justified
snt consider
by r
thecircumstances
whether or io o th this proposalof
Ireland,f
their and whether it was desirable to object to a measure
Government thought it
which had for its object the quietude of that country, without
a
party
duty
to considerations.prop propose
Her
Majesty'smeasure
than the existing law would warrant, because they found
that in certain counties in Ireland there prevailed a system of
outrage which set at defiance every authority of the law. They
another
found that in fonr or five of the counties in Ireland there had
been a system of grievances and danger to life and property
which peremptorily called for the intervention of the Govern-
ment. Her Majesty's Government found that in some of the
counties there had been murders, and it was with the greatest
difficulty the murderer could be discovered ; and it was found,
also, that the contagion
spread to the neighbouring counties,
and the Government, therefore, found it their duty to bring
under the consideration of Parliament a measure having
fur its object the giving of additional powers for
the maintenance of the peace of that country. Among the
strenuous opponents of her Majesty's Government, he found
the Hon. Member for Belfast, who had opened the debate
this ewning. The Hon. Member said, that the system of
outrages which had occurred in some parts of the country was
such, that he would willingly acquiesce in some measure
for remedying the evil. The Hon. Member stated that
he would prefer a suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act to
the present measure. There had been only one argument
which he had heard adduced by the Hon Member, and that
was the "housemaid-argument." The Hon. Member stated
that his housemaid, hearing of the disturbed state of Ireland,
declined to accompany the Learned Judge to Ireland.
Some interruption here arose from the Hon. Member for
Dublin.

Sir ROBERT PEEL would ask his Hon. Friend to repeat
what he stated upon the subject ?
Mr. SH AW stated that what he referred to was to illustrate
that from the highest to the lowest there existed a state of igno-
rance on the condition of Ireland. . .

Sir R. PEEL had certainly heard another account of this
matter, and that while the mother of the housemaid—
( Laughter)—was afield of the Curfew, the master of the
servant was actually pressing the measure upon the Govern-
ment, stating that if the measure had been brought forward
on the first day of the session, it would have passed without
opposition. Now with reference to the speech of the Hon.
:Member for Stroud (P. Serope), he stated that these combi-
nations for outrage were only the natural necessity for poor
relief, and considered that there would be no chance of obtain-
ing tranquillity for Ireland until they gave to the Irish peasant
a right of relief from the land, Other persons thought that
this would be an unwise provision, and that it would lead to
the confiscation of property• But said the Hon. Gentleman,
until you pass a law of this nature, the peasant has
no right to live in Ireland, and the only means to
which he could resort for the purpose of ridding himself
from these distresses were these combinations.—(Cheers.)
What a melancholy picture did this present of the state of
Ireland l The Right Hon. Baronet then referred to the evi-
dence of Mr. Conden, showing the difficulty of obtaining
evidence in caws where murders had been committed. The
Government did not propose this measure because they thought
it was the only remedy applicable to the state of Ireland. Far
from it. It was with the utmost reluctance they proposed the
present measure. Other remedies were proposed, calculated
to effect a permanent goof. They were fully aware that the
Goverment should be conducted with kindly and indulgent
aware that these measures were
rfe4luinirgesd. for Theytlie pwuerrpeosfalyelof producing an effect which tempo-
rary coercion could never pretend to effect. But, while
they admitted that this was the most imperfect
remedy, they felt that if the House permitted
crime to be rampant and uncontrolled, they were neglect-
ine their duty to the parties who were exposed to these Acts.
The admissions which had been made by gentlemen connected
with Ireland, and cognisant of the condition of the country,
was that the national charatter was deteriorated. A similar
measure to the present had been proposed in the year 1835 by
Hon. Members opposite. He was not denying their perfect
right to oppose the present measure if they thought it uncalled
fur. It had been stated as an argument against this meesure
that crime had be?n greatly reduced in Ireland. He thought
this was owing to the gratefel feelings towards the Government
which had been found in the minds of the generous people of
oratmheeliogrraetaet
the wilds of Connaught and Munster, f
He deeply regretted that such should b
their ex r ti
con-
ditiono
by the introduction of Indian n
s
Which the Government had lately made to
e the state of crime in
corn and other measures.
Ireland. Let them take the crimes as they were classified—
whether classified or not correctly he would not stop to inquire
—and what did they present ? Did they show that crime had
dimini.hed since the introduction of this measure? If they
took the rimes of an aggravated character, leaving out of con-
sideration such offences as administering unlawful oaths—if
they took the crimes of murder or homicide, firing at the person,
assault, and attempt to take life, incendiarism, and such like
offences, they had the strongest evidence of a most disordered
i state of society in Ireland, for which, though temporary coer-
i oion might be no permanent cure, yet things bad arrived at