The Sun.
London, England, 1833-04-02 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 2, 18:33.

SPIRIT' OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

The Conservatives rallied in force last night in
the Upper House. Lord Eldon, to do him justice,
made the most of the alterations by the Commons
in the Irish Disturbances Bill. He, of course,
lamented the necessity, the hard necessity, in which
he had been placed by voting, on the responsibility of
Ministers, the suspension of one of the most import-
ant parts of the constitution, the trial by jury. Such a
measure could be justified only by necessity, and if
the necessity did not exist, the rule of justification was
applied to a state of circumstances that did not war-
rant it. If the necessity did not exist, why, then,were
his I aj esty 's subjects deprived of trial by jury, and
subjected to trial by courtsmartial ? If the neces-
sity which justified the bringing in of the measure
continued to exit, why were the subjects of his
Majesty in Ireland to be now tried by juries
who were destined to be tried by courtsmar-
tial six weeks ago ? His Lordship then artfully
appealed to the pride of the House, which, he con-
tended, Earl Grey was lowering in the estimation
of the country; and he observed that the country
papers now said with regard to this measure—" No
matter what the House of Lords say, or what the
opinion of the House of Lords is, we will go to the
House of Commons and get all that altered."—
" To pledge (said his Lordship) that House to
measures, and then in this way to abandon them
without any apparent reason whatever, was to do that
which must tend to the destruction of that House
and the constitution." Lord Eldon is the same
sly fox that he always was. He would fain bring
the two Houses into collision, which would no
doubt embarrass Ministers; but cunning is not al-
ways wisdom, and his Lordship might be no gainer
in the end by setting the two Houses by the ears.
Earl Grey observed, that " the other House of.
Parliament had an undoubted right to make what
alterations in the Bill they thought proper. For
these alterations he was not responsible. He ad-
mitted that he wished some of them had not been
made. But when the Bill came back with these
alterations, it was for their Lordships to consider whe-
ther it was not still sufficient for its purpose."
" And even (added his Lordship) if they consi-
dered the alterations objectionable—yet not so objec-
tionable as to warrant risking the loss or the delay of
the Bill —they would then pay a proper deference to the
other branch of the Legislature, as well as do their
duty to the public, by agreeing to the alterations."
Lord Melbourne asked if a Bill of severity of this
kind was ever known to go through both Houses of
Parliament, without receiving material modification?
and he particularly instanced the Bills of 179-1 and
the Six Acts, of which last, that which related to
meetings received die material alteration, that its
operation was confined to meetings in the open air.
The amendment to which the greatest objection was
made, and on which the House divided, was the pro-
vision respecting tithes, introduced into the fourth
clause. The Lord Chancellor observed, that " how-
ever reluctant he himself might have been to origi-
nate the amendment objected to, yet he was far
from thinking that the Bill was thereby rendered
inefficacious. He must say, however, that with all
due respect for the other House, he could not at all
discover any just or satisfactory reason for this
amendment. It would be absolutely and utterly in-
operative. It could not, by any possibility, produce
the result he supposed it aimed at, of crippling the
powers of the clause, or save any wrong-doers from
,a particular mode of punishment. Besides, the
provision in the clause was utterly inconsistent with
the clause itself. The clause did not give any
power of proclaiming a district, unless it were really
in a state of disturbance; yet the provision set
forth, that if any act of insubordination did prevail
in a district, it shall not be law ful to declare the
district merely on account of a peaceable opposition
to pay tithes. A peaceable opposition to tithes
Why, they might as well say, that no proceedings
should be taken upon a peaceable resistance to pay
the King's taxes ; or if any persons attempted, in a
peaceable way, to withhold the payment of their
radesrren's bills, or any thing else." The Bishop
of London tried hard to have the amendment struck
our. Earl Grey entreated the House not to believe
that the rejection would lead to a delay of 24 hours
only. The consequence of the rejection would be a
conference between the two Houses; and it would
be utterly impossible for them to get through the Bill
before Easter, unless they sat after Good Friday.
Lord Harrowby endeavoured to parry this home
thrust. He would rather consent to pass the Bill
than cause any great delay. But his objection to
the proviso, as it at present stood, was, that it in-
sulated tithes and church property, and placed it on
a footing different from that of other property. In
order to deprive it of this singularity, he would
move the addition of the words, " rent or taxes,"
to be inserted after the word tithes. Lord Mel-
bourne here met the Noble Lords on their own
ground. " If (said his Lordship) it really were the
opinion of the Noble Lords opposite that the ex-
ception of tithes would create an opinion that tithes
ought not to be paid, the addition of the words
rent and taxes' would only have the effect of ex-
tending that impression to them." On a division
the numbers were—For the amendment, 45; against
it, 85.—The proxies being 39 to 5. Thus, then,
the 8,11, with its amendments, has passed the ordeal
of the House, arid will soon become the law of the
land.—)Vforazing Chronicle.
The passing of the Irish Disturbances Bill from
the House of Commons to the House of Lords,
where we have every reason to believe that it wilt
be adopted without further amendment or alteration,
is, we trust, the signal for the commencement of the
real business of the session, and for the considera-
tion of those numerous and important questions of
national policy which have so long and so vainly
called for attention from the Government. As one
of these measure,, the refot m of the church of Ire-
land is not the least important, and justly claims
our first attention, because resolutions for the framing
and bringing in of a Bill to. accomplish that great
object will this evening be moved in the House of
Commons by Lord Althorp. The contents of the
intended Bill we have more than once described,
and it is not, in consequence, necessary for us to say
more in relation to it than that it is unobjectionable
as a safe measure of Reform, and can incur the
indignation and opposition of two parties only—the
first, that of those who think that the measure
does not go far enough ; and the second, that
of those who hold all interference with the tem-
poralities of the church to be unlawful, and who
would rather that the whole edifice should crumble
into ruins than one rotten rafter should be removed,
in order to make way for sounder timber. We
confess we are among the former. We grant the
intended Bill to be a great improvement, but we
also think that it does not go to the root of the
evil, and that Ireland will not have fair and full
ju-tice done to her in this matter until the system of
tithes has been comple•ely abolished, and the church
of England in Ireland, like every dissenting chinch,
been made to maintain her own clergy, and to build
and repair her own churches. But there is a great
difference between what ought to be done and whet
can be done—between what right dictates and might
can accomplish ; and on this ground we cheerfully
give our support to a measure which, had there been
any likelihood of its being curried, we could have
wished to have been by far more searching and ra-
dical in its operation. It is well known, however,
that the measure, moderate as it is, will be stoutly
contested by the Tories in the Commons, and that
it runs no small risk of being rejected by the Upper
House. Upon what principle, however, or upon

what ground, it is to be opposed, we are really at a,
loss to conceive. It is not an interference with the
rites or doctrines of the church, and does not, in con-
sequence, deprive the clergy of what it is their pe-
culiar province to manage—it is as affair of pure
temporality, and being almost entirely of a prospective
nature, does injury to no one who is at the present mo-
ment a member of the chinch of Ireland. Nothing,
in fact, could have been framed with a greaterregard
to existing rights than the present Bill; while, with
regard to the future, who does not see in every account
elm we receive from Ireland, the necessity of placing
the church on a different footing from that on which
it has so long existed—of cutting down its immense,
unwieldy, and unnecessary, clerical staff—of uniting
its poorer livings, where they can be united with
utility—and of dividing many of those unions which
have been formed for no other purpose than that of
putting more money into the pockets of some over-
fed parsons than they are able to render service for
in return ? Have not the tithes during the last
twelve months been collected at the point of the
bayonet, and has it not become a matter of moral
certainty that the only mode by which even a
wreck of the church can be saved is by cutting off,
without mercy, the unsound parts of its constitution?
The blindest are those who will not see; and the
most blind friends of the church are those who will"
attempt any resistance to a measure which, instead
of being meant to despoil her, or shear her of her
beams, is intended to renovate and invigorate her
debilitated constitution. The character of its authors
is the best proof of the former—the hatred in which
the church is held by all, except those who profit
by its abuses, of the other. Let them oppose the
measure, however, if they be inclined, and we shall
see what will be the result. The time was when
if. they had raised the cry of the church being in
danger, they might have overthrown the Ministry
which had had the hardihood to interfere even with
its temporalities; but that time, thank Heaven, is
now, and for ever, fairly gone by. " Tne church
in danger" will now raise no lions in her defence,
though the cry may give the signal for attack to her
enemies. The people know the difference between
religion and the temporal arrangements for incul-
cating its precepts upon their minds, and charm how
wisely they may, the supporters of abuses will never
be able to charm them into a belief that a Reform
in the one is meant for the overthrow of the former.
How applicable to the latter the exclamation of the
Roman poet—

" 0 fortunati, bona si sua norint :"
—Morning Advertiser.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.

MANSION-HO USE.

Yesterday Byers was again brought up, and several
merchants and bankers, who have bren forged upon, at-
tended the examination, which excited considerable sur-
ise, and caused much laughter.
A Solicitor, for the house of Messrs. Parkes and Co.,
hop-merchants, stated that the prisoner bad pursued and
succeeded in a most extraordinary and audacious system
of plunder. Ihe prisoner called some time ago at the
house of Parkes and Co., procured samples of hops, and
purchased to the amount of about 115/. The prisoner
gave his address at the Sussex Hotel, and called again in
the evening, when the invoice was ready, and tendered a
check on Jones, Loyd, and Co., in the name of William
Strong, for the sum of 150/. The clerk looked at the
check, believed it to be genuine, and gave a check on Bar-
clay for 34/. 18s. W., the difference between the invoice
and the ch ek for 1501. Next morning the check on
Jones, Loyd, anti Co. was pronounced to be a forgery, and
pa} nent of the check on Barclay -was stopp,d. The
prisoner, however, went down to Gravesend and purchased
41. worth of haberdashery, and got the latt. r check cashed.
The house was of course obliged to pay it. It was the
intention of the firm, under the circumst tnces, to prosecute
for the fraud.

Mr. T. H. Farmer, of No. 79, High-street, in the bo-
rough, stated that on the 28th of September the prisoner
called on him to pay for a quantity of hops. The invoice
amounted to 1791. ss. Sd., anti the pris.,ner handed him
a check on Jones, Loyd, and Co., for 2501., having pre-
viously, however, struggled hat d to vet the 5.. 8,1. struck
off.—(A laugh.) Witness struck off the 5s Sd., and
gage a check upon Weston and Co., for 111., the diffe-
rence. Soon after the prisoner had gone, however, wit-
ness reflected that he had acted rather incautiously in
giving his check to a stranger, and he determined to stop
payment of it, and to send to Jones, Loyd. and Co., to
ascertain whether there was not some swindling in the
afftir. As he was waiting in the back-room at Weston's
banking-house, who should pop in his head but the
prisoner to get the amount of the check, but the moment
the fellow saw him (witness) off he started, and witness
never had seen him since until he was brought before the
Lord Mayor.

The LORI) 111Avoa—I suppose you have never seen
your cheek since? Witness—Never. I advertised the
circumstance very extensively, and think that I shall
htar no more of it.

The Lout) MAYOR having inquired when the first forgery
took place, was told, very much to his surprise, that one of
the cases immediately followed the other on the same day.
Mr. George Kilby, a c'erk of Messrs. Jones and Loyd,
upon receiving both the checks, uttered by•the prisoner,
pronounced cheat forgeries, and wrote the words " drawn
by a swindler" on them.

Tire LORD MAYOR—Have•}ou received many of this
kind of checks? Witness—Upwards of 70 ; we detected
them all.

The Loan AlAvoa—l have received positive informa-
tion that the pri-oner is certainly one of the most expert
depredators in the wholesale way in the country. The
police have been after him these three years, but we have
caught him at last, and his career is at an ,nd. These
are the plunderers I am anxious to get hold of—these
wholesale robbers, who do more mischief in one day than
an ordinary pickpocket. can do during his whole life. I
have impres,ed upon the police the necessity of watching
the swindlers with whom the city abounds, and I so-
lemnly declare that I shall be unremitting in my exertions
to root them all out ; yet the punishment will be no
greater than that of a boy who is convic ed of stealing a
pocket-handkerchief, value Is. I don't know what to call
that sort of arrangement which adapts punishment to of
fences in so absurd a way.
Mr. Bush produced a letter from Calais, describing a
series of impositions practised by the prisoner there.
Air. Flower said that such a course as was pursued on
this occasio❑ was calculated merely to prejudice the case
of his client.

The LORD MAYOR....It would be a pity to prejudice
such a cure. IC would be most unmerciful to excite any
feeling of indignation against such a wholesale and un-
equalled robber.—(Laughter.)

Air. Bush stated that the prisoner had negotiated for
his passage to another country with the captain of a packet,
and contrived to levy contributions upon the unsuspecting
seamen.

AIN Francis Place, of Charing-cross, tailor, stated tha!
in June, 1832, the prisoner ordered some clothes, and
gave as his address " Mr. Clinton, Salopian Coffee-
house," stating, at the same time, that he would pay ready
money. The amount of the bill for the clothes was 131.,
and the prisumr asked him whether he had change for a
201. note. Witness replied the affirmative, and pro-
duce, seven sovereigns, which the prisoner took up, and
at the same time produced a check upon Jones, Loyd,
and Co., for 201., purporting to be drawn by Angustu.
Etp-rton and Son. Witness was much disappointed at
seeing the check instead of the bank-note, and certainly
would not have parted with his sovereigns but that th,
prisoner bad them in his band and witness had tl e check
in his.—(Laughter.) The prisoner was not long gon
when witness started off in a cal; to Jones, Loyd, and Co.
to get the check cashed.(Lud laughter, in which Mr.
j Place oine,t)—aud upon boding that his cast, mer was a
swindler, drove ;.aek as fast as possible to the Salopian.
The LORD MAI-on—Ay, ay ; then I suppose, as you
move such has e back, that you found him?—(Laughter.)
Wiiness—No ; be bad just taken his departure.
Toe piisoner was remanded till Thursday.

At the assizes at Lancaster, the case of the
Clithero riots (Rita v. GREENHALCH and others) came
on fur trial, when, atter d protra.-tect investigation, that
lasted fur two diys, a verdict of Nut Guilty was returned
opium all the prisoners.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF COMMONS, APRIL 1.

At five o'clock the SPEAKER again took his seat.
A person from his Majesty's Mint appeared at the Bar
with-an account of all gold and silver coined in that esta-
blishment.
MONTGOMERY ,ELECTION.
Mr. FINN brought up the report of the Committee ap-
pointed to inquire into the merits of the petition against the
return for the borough of Montgomery, which declared that
the sitting Member, D. Pugh, Esq., was not duly elected,
and that the petition and the opposition to it were not
frivolous or vexatious.
A new writ was ordered to issue for that borough, in
lieu of Mr. Pugh.
EASTER HOLYDAYS.
LGrtl ALTHORP wished to state that he believed he
should be able to move an adjournment of the House on
Wednesday instead of Thursday, the day for which he had
already given notice. He thought it was possible the House
would be able to get through that business which pressed
most heavily upon it by Wednesday, but it greatly depend-
ed upon whether any objection would be taken in another
plate to the amendments in the Irish Disturbances
Bill.—(Hear.) If any alterations were made, it would be
necessary for the House to sit on Thursday, otherwise he
should move the adjournment on Wednesday. With re•
gard to the period to which the House should adjourn, he

iAd the c-21!er night proposed so short a one, that he was
afraid it did not meet the wishes of the House, and be
should be very glad to consult those wishes as far as he
could consistently with his public duty.--(Hear.)
Mr. WILKS could assure the Noble Lord that if the
House were adjourned only to Wednesday week there
would be a very small attendance on that day. He would
suggest an adjournment until the following Monday.
Mr. PALMER. reminded the Nob'e Lord that the
Quarter Sessions began on Tuesday, and it would be a
great convenience to adjourn for a longer period.
Mr. LITTLETON expressed himself to the same effect.
Lord ALTHORP said, if such were the opinion of
the House, he would, either on Wednesday or Thursday,
as the case might be, propose the adjournment until the
Monday week following.