The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-26 00:00:00

EAST INDIA HOUSE-(THIS DAY.)

This morning a General Court of the Proprietors of East
India Stock was held in order to consider of the amendments
made in the East India Bill in the House of Commons, an.s
the correspondence that had taken place between the Director
and the Board of Control since the last court.
C. MARJORIE/OCM,, Esq., accompanied by most of the Direc-
tors, entered the court at twelve o'clock, and took the chair,
when the minutes of the last Court were read and confirmed.
The CHAIRMLN stated to the Court that it had been called
in consequence of Mr. C. Grant refusing to postpone the third
reading of We Bill latter than this night, and as the Directors
could not now approve of the Bill, they had prepared a
petition against it, which, if approved of by the general Court,
would be presented before the third reading of the Bill.
The petition was then read. It objected that there was no
prosision for settling any difference that might arise between
the Directors and the Board of Control, which they thought
mould be submitted to Parliament—that they could not ap-
prove of the changes in the mode of governing India as pro_
posed by the Bill, which would very much increase the ex-
pense of the Company—they also disapproved of the additional
charge for two new Bishops. They therefore prayed to be
heard by Counsel against such parts of the Bill, and that the
House would so modify it as to meet their wishes.
Mr. POYNDER could not agree with that part of the peti-
tion which objected to the extension of the episcopal staff in
India...(Oh, oh.) He was only doing his duty as a proprietor, and
trusted he should not meet with such interruptions.—(Hear.)
This was not a new proposition, or he should have more to
say upon the subject ; but they had already tried and found
the benefits of the establishment of episcopacy in India, there-
fore what objection could there be to the proposed plan? How
stood the case ? They had had ten years' experience, and in
that time four men had fallen sacrifices to their anxiety to do
their duty.—(No, no.) Were gentlemen afraid he should
make out his case that they were determined not to hear him?
He maintained that they had fallen sacrifices, and out of
the ten years, the Church in India had been left
four years without that spiritual control which was
recognised by the Church in this country.—(Hear.) He
denied that the plan would add to the expense so much as the
Directors seemed to expect, as the expense of the visitations of
the Bishop of Calcutta to the other Presidencies would be
saved. Though he did not advocate the establishment of the
Scotch Church there, he was glad of it, both for the sake of the
Scotch in India, and for the sake of our Legislature, as it
showed them to be enlightened. He did not wish for a mo-
ment to have it understood that he wished to force one native
into his faith ; but he could not consent to the petition, as he
believed it to be contrary to all good faith and equity. If that
clause was withdrawn, he would agree with most of the other
propositions.

Sir JONES BRYDGES rose to support the petition. He could
not quarrel with one word that it contained. He expressed
himself most grateful to the Court of Directors and the Chair-
man, for the manner in which they had conducted the
negotiation with the Government, and to the Govern-
ment, considering the clamour that prevailed in the country
against the Company, for many favours which they
had granted to that Court, but at the same time
he must tell them, that some of their measures
would not work well, nay, would, in fact, be most detri-
mental. The Hon. Baronet was going into the question of the
China trade, when—

Dr. GILCHRIST rose to order. Their time was most precious,
and the question before the Court was, whether they would
agree with the petition or not. _ _

_
Mr. could not agree with that dictum _they
were at liberty to go into the whole question, as the Bill, as
amended, had only just been put in their hands.

The CHAIRMAN said he could have no objection to go into
the consideration of the Bill if time would allow, but if the
discussion should not be very soon closed they would be shut
out from having any benefit from their petition.
Sir JONES BRYDGES then resumed—He most heartily con_
curred in that paragraph of the petition, which related to the
Bishops—that was the age when cant and hypocrisy walked
abroad, dressed in the garb of religion. When he first entered
into the service of the Company, there were only three priests
in the whole of India, and then the people were as honest and
as moral as at present. It might rain Bishops, but that was
not the way to convert the natives of India.

Mr. C. FERGUSSON stated that if the petition was adopted,
it was necessary to be in the hands of the Member who was to
be intrusted with it before five o'clock, in the House of

Commons.

Mr. WEEDING said, the first consideration was, whether
the increased expense of governing India according to the Bill,
would endanger the basis of their compromise. In his opinion
the Court had taken the proper view of the case. Then as to
Bishops, he must state that the Hon. Proprietor (Mr.
Poynder) had not stated one fact in favour of his
view of the case—he must deny that any Bishop
had fallen a martyr to his excessive duty; he would state
one fact—the Company had lost more men in judges, who had
no visitations to make, than they had in bishops for the last
ten years.—(Hear.) Then the Hon. Proprietor said they would
save the expense of visitations; but surely he had not read the
Bill, for there was one clause which expressly provided that
the Company should pay for three visitations in the year—where
was to be the saving in that ?—(Hear.) Then as to the College,
why should there be an exclusive privilege for teaching those
intended for India ?—would it not be absurd to make a law
that every one educating for a barrister should be confined to
the Inner Temple, in place of allowing him to study at Lin-
coln's Inn, Gray's Inn, or any other he may think proper ?
He trusted the Directors would make a grand stand upon that
question. The intention was to make the College a mere Go-
vernment one. If the Commons did not listen to the petition,
he trusted the Court would have an opportunity of petitioning
the House of Lords.—(Applause.)
Sir C. FORBES said his decided objections to the measure
from the first made it almost unnecessary tbr him to say
more than that the further they went the deeper they got,
and he expected they were called together to have it recom-
mended from the Chair, that they should altogether
reject the plan.—(Hear.) He, at any rate, would not
be considered as a party to that plan, which was
one of spoliation and robbery, not only upon the
Company, but also of India. So far from the natives not being
taxed one rupee, as had been said, the new plan would lay an
additional million upon them. He, though he would not sign
the petition, most cordially concurred in it, and trusted that
another Court would be summoned on an early day, in order
to consider of the Bill, and petition the Lords against it. He
particularly was opposed to the clause allowing the barristers and
lawyers to go to India to practice without a license from the
Company. The effect of it would be to induce all the black-
guard pettyfogging—(Laughter)—fellows who were not able to

live at home to go out there to manufacture law suits. At
Calcutta there were already sixty attorneys, and he fully be-
lieved that the honest part of them were starving. He hoped
some words would be added to the petition against that clause.
The CHAIRMAN said lie would take care that another day
should be named, but he hoped the Proprietors would allow
the day to be fixed by the Directors who Lad always studied
the interest of that Court.
Dr. GILCHRIST subscribed to every sentiment that had fallen
from the Hon. Baronet (Sir C. Forbes). A g:eat deal had
been said respecting visitations, but he would say, God grant
that India might be saved from any such visitaion, as bishops
on thrones, and shoals of lawyers.
The petition was then adopted—only Mgj Poynder's hand
being held up against it.
The Court then adjourned.

1M PERIA LPA RLIAM ENT

THIS DAY, FRIDAY, JULY 26.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took his scat at a quarter past twelve o'clock.
Mr. ABERCROMBIE presented a petition from Edinburgh,
signed by 9,000 persons, praying for an entire abolition of the
annuity and impost taxes. Those taxes were the source of
great discontent and bickerings between the clergy of Edin-
burgh and the inhabitants, and occasioned nearly as much ill
feeling as existed in Ireland. He hoped that between this and
the next session of Parliament some measure would be con-
sidered, with a view of adjusting and settling this question.
Mr. A.JOHNSTONE said that in Edinburgh, at present, there
was nearly the same deliberate system acted as in Ireland. It was
a system of passive resistance, and not less than 11,0001. was
now due to the Clergy of Edinburgh, not a shilling of which
could be collected. The good citizens of Edinburgh were
standing out against the clergy merely because certain parties
were exempted from the tax, and they thought themselves
entitled to be exempted also. The consequence was, that the
clergy were unprovided for. He hoped that some measure
would be adopted to set the question at rest.
Mr. COBBETT had hoped to hear what had become of a
fund that had been raised to pay the Clergy of Edinburgh, but
nothing was said about it. He understood that about
one thousand of the richest persons in Edinburgh were
exempted from payment of these taxes, and the rest of the
inhabitants very justly complained that they should be required
to pay them.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly bore testimony to
the excellent conduct of the clergymen of Edinburgh.
Mr. ABERCROMBIE had omitted to say any thing about
the fund allude I to by the Hon. Member for Oldham, solely
because he did not wish to enter into the merits of the case
at present; if he had entered into the merits he could state
where it was alleged—not where it had actually gone—but
where it was alleged to have gone. He would take another
opportunity of moving for certain returns connected with the
subject, which would show what had become of the funds.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. SHEIL presented the following petitions :—From the
merchants, &c. of Dublin, for an inquiry into the state of the

caporation of that city; four from Cahir, for an alteration in
the Grand Jury system; for the repeal of the Union (two), and
for the abolition of tithes ; several from the parish of Burne
Court, in the county of Tipperary, for apportioning part of
the revenues of benefices, after the death of the present
incumbents, to the purposes of the state, for the repeal
of the Union, and for an alteration in the Grand
Jur_y system; a petition from Doone, in the county
of Limerick for an inquiry Into the resources of Ireland ; from
Newry, for an inquiry into the circumstances attending the last
election in that town; from the parish of Kilrush, in the
county of Tipperary, for the repeal of the Coercive Bill; and
from the parishes of Kilnoughty and Crossmore, county of
Tipperary, in favour of the Government plan of national edu-
cation in Ireland.

Mr. ROBERT STEWART presented a petition from the
port of Dunbar, on the subject of the tolls on the northern
lights. He was sorry there would be no opportunity afforded
in the present session—or perhaps in the present Parliament—
to bring the subject fully before the House. There were three
systems of management of the lights by the three countries.
In England they were managed by seamen and others, who
were so fortunate as to become brethren of the Tri-
nity House.—(Hear, hear) In Scotland they weremanaged
by the Sheriffs, and other similar officious characters, and in
Leland by merchants and bankers. In Scotland the governors
and commissioners were incorporated by Act of Parliament
in the year 17C3. This corporation charged 2d. per ton on all
vessels thrt passed any one of the northern lights, giving the
privilege of passing all the remainder without further payment.
By this system their funds had increased very considerably, and
they had been enabled to erect 23 ligi.t-houses. But it operated
very disadvantageously towards those vessels which made only
short coasting voyages, as it entailed upon them the same ex-

pense as if—say instead of a voyage of 20 miles—they had
ccasted all round the northern parts of Scotland ; and it was
frequently a most oppressive import, by obliging the full ton-
nage of the vessel to be accounted for, even although she
might only have ten or a dozen tons of goods on
board.—(Hear, hear.) This system it was high time
to have altered ; and he was convinced that the duties
of Governors or Commissioners would be more profitably per.
formed by professional and scientific men.—(Hear.) If the
Hon. Member for Middlesex did not prosecute his intention of
bringing the subject before the House, with a view to a thorough
change in the system, he (Mr. Stewart) should certainly do so
in the next session of Parliament, if he still held a seat in that
House. The petition prayed for an inquiry into the system,
and for an effectual alteration.
Mr. EWING said that, notwithstanding he was a member
of the incorporated body mentioned by the Hon. Member, he
would cheerfully render his assistance.
After a few observations from other Hon. Members, the pe-
tition was laid upon the table.
Mr. TODD presented a petition from Wastage, praying for
the abolition of slavery.
Mr. Sergeant PERRIN brought up the report of the Corn.
mittee on the Beer and Spirit Licenses of the Licensed Victual.
lers of Ireland.

Mr. WALLACE said he Lad various petitions to present;
but it was a question with him whether it was of any use to
present them, seeing that, if the Parliament survived the pre-
sent session—(Hear, hear)—but little would be done before
the next session, This, however, had no personal weight with
him, for he was quite sure that those who sent him there would
send him back again, without any hesitation. The first peti.
tion was from the Dunfermline Political Union, and prayed
for daylight legislation—(Hear, hear)—which had been hitherto
conducted under the constant attendance of the Right Hon.
the Speaker, to his own credit, and the great satisfaction of
the House.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The next
was one from Walsall, praying for Vote by Ballot.
The Hon. Member also' presented a petition from Forfar for the
repeal of the corn laws. The petitioners attributed the keep.
ing up of the present system of corn laws to the undue influ.
ence of the aristocracy in the House of Commons, and prayed
that the heirs of the nobility might be excluded from sitting in
that House. Also petitions from Perth for the adoption
of a Ten Hours Factory Bill ; from the Political Union of
Dunfermline, for annual parliaments and vote by ballot ; and
from the working classes of Edinburgh, for triennial parlia.
ments and vote by ballot.

Mr. SINCLAIR wished to know whether the petitioners
from Forfar would wish such men as the Chancellor of the
Exchequer excluded from that House ?

Mr. O'CONNELL could not agree with all the sentiments
expressed in the petition from Forfar. The petitioners seemed
to forget the aristocracy in that House, of fifty manufacturers
and mill-owners, and one hundred bankers. Every man, he
trusted, and he must say for himself, that he should prefer an
aristocracy of title to that of money. The estates in America
were daily declaring that no aristocracy whatever was so
abominable as that of money.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted the
House would pause long before they gave the preference to the
aristocracy of the mill owner instead of that of birth. He
should consider that great calamities had befallen the country if
there did not exist a power some where to control the majo-
rity of that House at the present time.
Mr. WALLACE regretted that almost all the offices in the
State, and more especially those connected with that House,
should be given to persons connected with the aristocracy, as
he firmly believed it tended greatly to exclude talent.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME having been required to support the prayer of
the petition, he could not help thinking that Hon. Members
had taken a wrong view of what the petition stated. The pe.
tition stated that by the system that had existed, the aristo-
cracy of the country had obtained too great an influence in the
Council of the State, and too great a political power over the
measures of the Government. They stated, as an example,
the manner in which the corn laws had been kept up,
which was by the influence of the landed aristocracy,
and such he (Mr. Hume) thought he might say without any
impropriety had been the case up to the present period. But
he would add that while the evil existed the people had it in
their power to correct it if they pleased, and if they only acted
honestly and uprightly in returning their representatives, it
would be impossible for any particular class to predominate. It
was true the electors were somewhat restricted, butrestricted as
they we're, the people had it in their power, and it was their duty,
to chobse whin they thought fittest to represent them in that
House—lt would take some time before that influence was done
away with ; but he thought it would be found that every suc-
ceeding election would bring the representatives more on a
par with the constituents. While he deprecated any reflections
on any particular class, he thought the petitioners were per.
fectly right in praying for the repeal of the corn laws, which
had been upheld by that influence he had alluded to.—(Hear.)
Mr. SINCLAIR explained.
Mr. FINN thought it would be restricting the rights and
privileges of electors to tell them they were not to choose a man
for their representative because he was the brother or son of a
Noble Lord. He wonld contend that the people could not re-
turn whom they pleased as long as the vote by ballot was not
introduced. The vote by ballot would give security to the in-
dependent exercise of the vote, and then it might fairly be said
that House was truly and bona fide represented by the people.
Mr. C. J. TYNTE would defy any one to call the Hon.
Member for Middlesex a Destructive after the speech he had
just made, but he thought that the people had it now in their
power to return whoever they chose.
Councils i lRs UT
mightil V
Mr. HUME explained.
to have given have
ugvethtaokenhtththeattrosuobmlee ptoerhsoanvei,nahttiLlNdledajr
atyn'ds
some justification for these Bills being
banded over from day to day.—(Hear, hear.) They had
nothing to do with party questions or with political excitements.
With respect to the petition just presented, he thought the
people had a right to send to that House such men as they
pleased, whether they were the sons of tenants or the sons of
Lords, and there were many who now sent petitions to the
Legislature that would be an ornament to that House.
Mr. POULETT THOMSON had to apologize to the
House for not being present before, and he was sure it would
exonerate him when he stated that it had been decided by his
colleagues that these Bills (among which was the British Pos-
sessions Bill), should not come on to-day, but that they
should go on with the West India Bill at 12 o'clock,
and it had only been fixed at a very late hour
last night that these Bills should come on to-day.
He had been informed it was the wish of the House to go into
the Highways Bill, and therefore he did not come so early;
but if the House would permit him, he would for the present
go on with these Bills.
BRITISH 'POSSESSIONS BILL.
The SPEAKER then moved that the order of the day for
going into Committee on the above Bill should be read.
Mr. P. THOMSON said, that before the order of the day ,

was read, he wished to make a proposition to theitouse. His
proposal would be simply to consolidate the law as
at present existed. He would propose, therefore, with a view
to the convenience of the customs, merchants, and the trade
generally, for the purpose of bringing into one Act of Parlia-
ment that which was now contained in a great many Acts of
Parliament, to consolidate simply the law as it stood at pre-
sent, and not to make any alteration whatever. If the
House should concur in this view of the question, he
could pledge himself as far as he was able from the authority
of the legal adviser who had drawn up those Bills that this
was in substance no alteration whatever—that with respect to
the nine Bills, it would be a simple and pure consolidation
without any change. If the House adopted that principle, then
he was prepared toga on with those Bills ; but if the House
should not agree to that proposal, but be of opinion
contrary to former practice, and contrary to what the
experience of former times had shown to be advisable—
that it was right to take the opportunity of a consolidation to
make changes, it was perfectly obvious that it would be utterly
impossible for him to proceed with the Bills ; and he thought
he should best suit the view of the House, and consult its
convenience by entirely withdrawing them.—(Hear, hear.)
If Gentlemen would take an opportunity of suggesting altera-
tions, they would lead to discussions of such a length that it
would be wholly impracticable at this late period to get the
Bills passed this session.—(Hear.) On the understanding,
therefore, that the nine Bills were simply matters of consoli-
dation, he hoped the House would allow them to go through
the Committee pro forma.

Mr. HUME coincided in the suggestion of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, except that it might be necessary for some Mem-
bers, who were practically acquainted with the subject, to draw
the attention of the Government to some particular points.
But, as regarded the Customs' Duties Bill, it was intended to
make some very important alterations, and he would rather
forego the discussion upon the others in order to discuss the
latter Bill, which would take up a considerable time.
Mr. G. YOUNG suggested that it would be better to proceed
first with those Bills upon which no question could arise; but
with respect to the Registry of Vessels Bill, he had great ob-
jections to it, as very pernicious in principle.—(Hear.)
Sir R. VYVYAN suggested that the Hon. Member should
present the petition on the bringing up of the report.
Mr. RUTHVEN had given notice to insert a clause in the
Registry of Vessels Bill, substituting another mode of measure-
ment for that now adopted, and would take the most conve-
nient opportunity to propose it.

The House then went into Committee on the first of the
Bills, viz., the British Possessions Pill, pro fol:vtg, and the
Report was ordered to be brougift up on Monday.

On the motion that the House should go into Committee on
the Registration of Vessels Bill,
Mr. P. THOMSON said, that it was necessary to have a con-
solidation of the present laws, in order to make some
amendments, with more facility, in the next session of
Parliament. The commissioners had not yet. finished their
inquiry, and any suggestions of Hon. Members would be re-
ceived by the Commissioners.
The Bill then went through committee, to be reported
on Monday ; as did the Customs Duties, the Customs Manage.
ment, and the Customs Regulation Bills.
On leading the order of the day for the House to go into
Committee on the Isle of Man Trade Bill,
Lord LOWTHER begged to be informed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, whether
it was intended that the exemption from the duty on timber,
in the Isle of Man, should continue ?

Mr. P. THOMSON had no hesitation in informing the
Noble Lord, that not only the system of duty on timber for
that island, but of other duties, would undergo revision. The
duty on timber would be altered in the shortest possible period,
and would not be delayed beyond next year.—(Hear, hear.)
Of this the parties interested had received an early intimation.
The SPEAKER then left the chair, and the House re-
solved itself into a Committee on the Bill, the different
clauses of which were agreed to without any observation or
amendment.

The Customs Duties Bill also went through Committee,
when several reductions in the duty on ebony, madder, wax,
and other articles were announced and agreed to.

The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be brought
up on Monday.
The SPEAKER left the chair at three o'clock.

-----
THE FUNDS.--(THIS DAY.)

CITY, TWELVE O'CLOCK.
Charleston papers to the 30th June have been received at
the North and South American Coffee-house.

(From the paper of the 29th June.)

_ -
FROM TAMPICO.—CHOLERA.—The schooner Emperor ar-
rived at New Orleans on the 18th inst. from Tampico, where
she left on the 9th inst. The letters by her state that the
cholera was raging there, and that the mortality was enor-
mous. A letter dated the 7th states that in fourteen days
previous to the 6th there had been 900 deaths, and
on the 6th the deaths amounted to 130. The fatality,
we believe, is unprecedented in this country. The town of
Tampico is estimated to contain 3,000 souls, but by some it
is asserted to be between 4,000' and 5,000. On the Bth,
the day before the Emperor's departure, there were said to be
183 deaths; we understand it was generally confined to the
lower classes, and that but one foreign merchant had died
of it.