The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-29 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON,

suggestion offered by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Warburton) near
him. lithe resolution before the House were carried into effect,
t must result in complete bitterness on the part of the people
of Ireland towards the House.
Mr. BROT lI ETON had already seconds the amendment.
He thought that it was very often tine case that the less a man
was restricted the more stringently he considered himself to
be bound. He had a foolish idea, that if it was left to Hon.
dlembers unfettered to perform their duties, that they would
very seldom be found shrinking from the performance of
them. He would trust entirely to their sense of honour and
slaty. If any Member should be found refractory, he would
rather leave him to answer for his conduct to his constituents
than punish him by a rule of the House for his neglect. The
Hon. Member for Limerick perhaps had a different view in
persisting in his contumacy—he wanted the House to send him
to the Tower, so that the sympathies of the people might be
raised, but he (Mr. Brotherton) did not wish to make a martyr
of him ; therefore he thought the suggestion of his Hon. Friend
should be adopted.
thaltilra. mMi°staßktelrliBno°tio'Cn°of-NhNisEdLuLty wthar
agtltirtibtehtaetbicttheinbgis
Hmeonre
the duties of the House, he might have gone to Ireland,eveandi
Friend. the Member for Limerick. If he had wished to
remained there secure from any interruption.
of the resolution which
o
Sir G. GREY was of opinion that no other course was
to the House than the adoption
had been originally submitted. e did not see how they
the
to reflect upon the
could refuse to pass the original proposition. The Hon. Mem-
ber for Limerick had had sufficient time e
order of the House,
consequences of his refusal to serve upon Committees. The
Hon. Member had refused to obey th me
met it was very evident he must be held as in contempt of
House. He must say. therefore, that he saw no reason to alter
the resolution before the House.
to this resolution, for his Hon. Friend, the
Mr. O'CONNELL thought that it was unnecessary for the
House to come
Member for Limerick, was certainly not aware of any notice
being sent to him; and, to say the least, it seemed strange that
the measure should he so hastily and harshly Dressed.
Sir R. PEEL could not help expressing his astonishment
and regret at hearing that any Hon. Gentleman could have
supposed that in the course of this debate any party
could have come to any decision on tee subject, in consequence
of having been actuated by anything like personal feeling,
He could not help expressing his feelings on the point, and it
was one of very deep regret, for nothing, he believed, was
more contrary to the sentiments entertained by the whole of
,he Members of that House than that of hostility to the Irish
\lembers. It should be remembered that this was not the
first time that a Member of the House had been placed in this
position. During the session of last year the Hon. Member
for Winchester (Mr. B. Escott) had been appointed to serve
in two Committees, and was afterwards appointed Member of
a third. lie had conceived that his attendance on the first two
ught to exonerate him from any duty in the third, and he
had accordingly declined to attend. The Select Committee
made a representation of the circumstance to the House, and
he was ordered to attend. That Hon. Gentleman made his
appeal to the House, and stated the facts, and of his utter in-
ability to do duty in three places at the same time ; but the
House overruled his objection, and he was obliged to console
himself by doing his duty as well as he could, for the order of
the House was made that he should attend upon all
the Committees.—( Hear, hear.) He might also refer to a
circumstance which occurred in the year 1830, when a similar
instance had happened. The Hon. Member in that case had
not attended his Committee. The report was made—he stated
his reasons, and the House admitted that those reasons were
valid, and excused him. Why does the Hon. Gentleman then
presume that he should not be equally amenable to the rules of
the House as any other individual who is willing to submit to
its orders? Here there was no endeavour to palliate his con-
duct ; and instead of endeavouring to excuse himself, he had re-
ferred to his correspondence, and stated that he had an ob-
j,ction to serve, on a ground of public principle, and gave no
other reason than a vague statement of feeling. He had in-
-teed said that he would attend noon no other Committees than
those which might sit upon the affairs of Ireland. What other
course then could the Committee of Selection pursue than that
of reporting his conduct to the House ; and what other course
could the House pursue than that of affirming the resolution
that had now been submitted to them? The amend-
ment which had been moved on this resolution by the
Honourable and Learned Member for the county of Cork
went to neither more nor less than doing away with the power
of the House to compel Members to attend to these Com-
mittees, and provided that every Member should be excused
from attendance by assigning a special reason. Why he
believed, if such were the case, the Hon. Member would very
soon find that every idle man would speedily discover abundance
of special reasons for his absence. The Hon. Member seemed
to think that Committees form no part of the House, and that
compulsory attendance on them was beyond its control. If
such a doctrine were to prevail, most grievous evils would
speedily flow both to the House and to the country, and if this
question were to be decided against the resolution, the character
of the House must speedily suffer. It had always been his
policy to elevate the character of that branch of the Legis-
lature, which more particularly emanated from, and was more
immediately connected with the people, and upon which the
eyes of the people were continually fixed. If Hon. Members
would not give their attendance on these Committees, there
must be a power to compel them to do so, or they might on
similar grounds exempt themselves from attendance on the
House itself ; and not only the business of the Committees, but
also the public business of the House would, even under a call,
become only voluntary, and any Members who chose would be
exonerated from the most important legislative functions. For
his own part, he conceived that the Committees constituted
part of the House. The Hon. Member asked whether there
was any law to compel the attendance of the Members, and
from whence they derived their power? He might in the
interim say, and as a sufficient answer to the inquiry, that if
they could not compel attendance upon the Committees, neither
could they compel attendance upon the most important business
of the country, and they would lose every ability to ensure the
performance of those duties for which the country had sent them
there. But, with respect to the power, he could tell him that they
derived the power from that source of all power in which the
institutions and the laws of the country had their origin, and
from which they derived their authority—in the interests of all
classes of that community from whom all power emanated.
The Hon. Gentleman had stated that there was no clause in the
Act of Union which gave them the power to compel the at-
tendance of the Irish Members. He was right; nor was there
any statute law needed to give them the authority. The
right was inherent in the constitution of that House, and pre-
viously existed in the institutions and the necessities out of
which it arose long before the House itself was formed. If
such a plea were to be set up, they ought, in his opinion, to
give compensation to all those Members from North Britain
who had served in Committees since the Scottish Union, for
there was no clause in the Act of Union which ex-
pressly detailed the rights and duties of those Mem-
bers, and the great men of that period had never
thought it necessary to obtain a sanction of their rights or any
other grants or privileges for the Scottish Members when they
became Members of the United Parliament. If they were to
assent to the statement of the Hon. Member, they must adopt
some principle of action equivalent to that which they were
now employing, and he therefore saw no alternative between
affirming the resolution and taking a line of conduct which
would be destructive of the power of the House. They did
not rely upon the statute of Henry VIII., to which the Hon.
Member had alluded, but they relied upon the power which
had been existing in the House throughout the whole series of
its proceedings—on that source from which all power arose,
the power'which enabled to make laws ; and it was on these
grounds that he hoped that they should come to the conclusion
which be conceived to be inevitable. He was sure that the
House were quite aware of the consequences that would ensue
if they were to refrain from establishing their authority in this
instance, which all parties allowed to belong to the House of
Commons in order to obtain its rights, but the exercise of
which the Hon. Member challenged in the most open manner.
It was evident how much importance the Members attached to
this power, and he trusted, therefore, that the House of Com-
mons would affirm the resolution.—( Cheers.)
Mr. H. GRATTAN presumed that this was only a question
of privilege, and he thought it was inadvisable to bring it on
at the present time. There was no ground in law. It was
not necessary to express it; and if the House went to a division
he should feel it his duty to oppose the resolution.
Mr. C. POWELL regretted to see the spirit of hostility in
which the Government seemed inclined to act with regard to
his Hon. Friend the Member for Limerick.—(No, no.) He
thought they had better have adopted the suggestions of his
Hon. Friend the Member for the city of Cork, and was sorry
that the Attorney-General had not adopted the same strain as
Hon.inrtldai
ti
English
Members.
Baro-
net
ga thees,he-
that in which he had proposed it, instead of the hostile tone
whichspeeches
.cteehhi
the
hes ;dor
fitlt aihtaheeder there Isowieendai:ssTrleatr(7Cr, differencernhi
Attorney-General,
;d oG feebOreahtl evidencedw: oe
andhen. that"e
rf
tshhbCee
Members.
Sir R. PEEL—No, no.
Mr. CHARLES POWELL—There might have been some
grounds for such a motion, if it had been merely an
e:nglish case.—(" No, no.") But if the House had the power
to
compel the attendance of any Member in this
might compel him manner, they
to do anything. For instance,supposing the
case .
case of any gentleman, who for '2O
• •years had entertained parti-
cularopinions, and who came into h
t e House five years ago a
complete monopolist, and in
the exercise of his judgment in the
course of three years became
they converted into a thorough free-
trader,mightrd
o
turned.—( Great
laughter.) teir him to enter the House with his coat
issue. for if it did, conceived
) He hoped the order would not
motley group.—(Reeerelived that they would exhibit a very
laughter.) He trusted that the
Government would not e
persevere, for if they did, he must op-
pose the resolution.
Nlr. H LIME could not help • •
b rising to reprobate the opinion
that there was any difference
the
eween Irish and English Mem-
they were equallyliable.! to
pdareisamtl7eprgtitteos
fatshtellre latter,
He thought this was not the way to show to the people of
Ireland that their Members were protecting their interests.
He would not take notice of what had been said about turn-
coats, and all that nonsense, but he would ask what situation
were those Members in who entered the House after the
Reform Bill? There was no law passed to put them in pos-
session of the privileges of the other Members of the House,
nor was it necessary to pass any such law fur the Irish Mem-
bers. He regretted that the last speaker had not followed the
example of the manly speech of the Hon. Member for Kil-
kenny (Mr. John O Connell), who, although he entertained
'
. Hon Member for Limerick, had de-
the same opinions as the
ferred his own feelings to his higher sense of the claims of his
did his duty in Committee.
He thought that the
count' y, and had
•ht n Baronet at the head of the Government
Rig e •
stated the ease very fairly, and agreed with him that there was
no other course to pursue ; for if they allowed this plea it must
the Irish
Members avail themselves of the
put an end to all business. With what face could
privileges of this
House, and then, rfter refusing to fulfil their duty,
stand up to demand the rights of their country. The best
h ' duty •
possible way to defend those rights was to fulfil their
that House, and not after enjoying the privileges, refuse to un-
dergo the labour by which they were accompanied. Those
Scotch
privileges were equally enjoyed by English, Irish, and
of
Members, and without the power to compel the attendance
the Members, the business of the country must be stopped.
He had a better opinion
of the feeling of the Irish people than
the Hon. Member for Limerick—(Cheers)—for he believed
hat the Irish people would say—ot what use was it their having
Members in the House of Commons, if they did not support
heir rights, and how could they do so without fulfilling their
duty ?—for they had equal duties to fulfil with the English
Members. He certainly should affirm the resolution, and hoped
the House would adopt it.
Cries of " Divide, divide;" but
Mr. EWART rose to ask a question, upon which he was
xceediugly anxious, and that was—in the event of the motion
eing agreed to, whether the Hon. Member for Limerick would
e committed at once into the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms
or being convicted of contempt, or whether, as the Members
Kendal and Salford thought, he ought to be allowed to renew
attendance upon that House.
Sir T. WILDE had the highest respect for the Honourable
Member for Cork, hut he deeply regretted
the opinions which
in the
course of this discussion that Hon. Member had ex-
pressed on the motion before the House, andthe the Hon. Member for Limerick (Mr. S. O'Brien).s conduct of
. He per-
fectly agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet, thatr it was neces-
sary to uphold the rights of that House, ad thought they had
been moderately and fairly stated. He reg.retted, therefore,
the delusion under which the Hon. Member
acted; he trusted he would excuse himself, abpupte;:reewd
was
sob have
to say that, on the present occasion, both his Parliamentary
and his common law were decidedly bad. The House ar-
fully aware of the grounds on which this resolution was based.were
It was well known that Parliamentary law was a part of the
law of the land, and he thought this law had been fairly stated