The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-17 00:00:00

CORN-LAWS.

Earl STANHOPE presented a petition from the working
men of Birmingham against the repeal of the corn-laws. The
petitioners most solemnly objected to the passing of any mea-
sure affecting the general interests of the labourer, without first
consulting the opinions of the people upon the justice of
such a step. They stated that those measures would not be
attended with reciprocity on the part of any foreign Govern-
ment, but would inflict a most serious injury on the interests of
British enterprise. The prayer of the petitioners was that they
would oppose the passing of the Bill for a repeal of the corn-
laws, and also the tariff, unless accompanied with a Bill for a
repeal of the present poor-laws, a Bill to limit the hours of
labour to ten hours for the purpose of protecting the working
classes and their interests, and also a Bill for the total repeal of
the duties on coffee, sugar, soap, and tea, and on all articles
of necessary consumption. He would observe that the prayer
of this petition was echoed throughout the length and breadth
of the country.
THE MINISTERIAL MEASL'RES.
The same :Moats EARL said, that before going into Com-
mittee on the Bill before them, he wished, in pursuance of the
notice which he had given, to ask a question of the Noble Earl
the President of the Board of Trade. He wished to ask that
Noble Earl what, in his opinion, or in the opinion of her
Majesty's Minlsters, would be the effect of the Bill now upon
their Lordship's table,—whether it would have the effect
of raisingor depressing the price of corn ? It had been said
by his Noble and Learned Friend opposite that it was impos-
sible to say what would be the exact prices of corn after the
passing of this measure. He (the Earl Stanhope) should be
quite satisfied if the Noble Earl could say what would be even
the_l37..ral range in prices of core under this law.
Earl had
of RIPON said that the question which the Noble
N,,iettl':4,,,,
kto him hail already been answered by her
, answer which ts
i answer was to 4111:1d
possible for the humaerlifet '—
such a question so as
those who held the same opinions,
were subject to such variations :ere in the course of this discussion.. To the
avtel:nonnih:erf,rio, certainly
That he believed it would not be
to give
to devise any moth, of answering
satisfaction to the Noble Lords of
because the prices of corn
' back to the range of prices in vonrinthc seasons. t'n looking
been nothing but fluctuations. Ever;prziwoues, years,th there had
previously given as to the future prices of corn hadat beenllad been
ly falsified. He, therefore, could not prophecy
plete
of corn after the passing of what
would be the exact prices . passing of this Rill.
Earl STANHOPE said he did not require the Noble Earl to
say what would be the exact prices the next year after this
came into operation.
He wished to know what would be the
average prices for a number of years ; whether they would be
higher or lower than at present ; but it was perfectly apparent
to be known to the country
to their Lordships, and it ought If nisters had proposed
—( Hear, hear) —that her Majesty. s 4. 1
d ignarance the
this measure measure with an utter and avo we _
and witof h that igno-
quences that would follow—(Cheers)
ranee they dared to expose to peril all the best interests of the
country. —( Cheers ) the answer of
The Earl of WINCHELSEA must say that
. tisfactory.
the Noble Earl (the Earl of Ripon) was most uti_
effecta of this
The question was, what would be the general . ,
.11
were actin., iii
the upon the prices of corn? The Ministry
the same manner as a medical man, who might have attended
him for twenty years, and whose course of treatment had
always agreed with his constitution. He then came forwach
rd
and said," My dear friend, I have a new recipe for you, whi
I think will do you good ; I don't know what effect it may 4
have upon your coustitution, but I think it will do you good."
He would say to such a gentleman, " Oh, thank you, my
good friend, I am pretty well, thank you; I don't think that I
stand in need of any of your new treatment; I should like to know
what effect it would have upon my frame." He might answer
me, " Oh, I am sure I cannot say what effect it will have ;
there is a certain quack doctor there who has recommended it,
and if you will take it, and it agrees with you, it will place me
at once at the head of the profession." " Much obliged to you,
' my good friend, I have a great objection to allow. you to try
I sir.y espriment upon ore•-(Cheers)—whicli may perhaps raise

you to the head of the profession if successful, or damn you at
once if they should prove fatal to my health."—(Laughter. )
The Duke of RICHMOND would answer the question
himself, Mr. Gladstone had stated in his dispatch to Canada
that prices would be 535. and 51s. per. qr. It was strange
that that dispatch had been published in Parliament long before
it could reach the hands of the party for whom it was intended,
and whatever might be the effect of a change in prices it was
the dispatch of a Cabinet Minister who was not in Parliament.
Perhaps that was no matter as things went now. If there were
to be no change in prices, why had the Government raised such
an agitation throughitiut the country? And all he could say
with regard to the dispatch was, that if he were Governor-
General of Canada he should have felt it as a gross insult to
read his instructions first in tlie newspapers.
Earl STAN HOPE wished to ask whether it was the inten-
tion of Ministers to raise prices, to lower them, or to leave them
as they were? He did not expect the Noble Earl to state what
decision he had himself come to, but perhaps the great autocrat
of the Cabinet had expressed his own determination--riot that
that was his usual custom, but from necessity—and he should
now be glad to have an answer.
The Earl of RIPON—The question has already been asked.
Earl STAN HOPE—So, because a question 'has been al-
ready asked before, and not answered, it was a sufficient reason
why it should not be answered at all.
The Earl of RIPON thought that he had given a sufficient
reason for not replying, in stating that he should shortly give a
full explanation of the course which the Government intended
to pursue ; and he would not be compelled to divulge wt-at it
was at present proper to conceal, nor would he permit himself
to be charged by any man with what was termed a suspicious
silence.
The Earl of STANHOPE had no intention to impute im-
proper motives to the Noble Earl, but he thought the course
pursued, in his declining to answer the question put to him,
was a suspicious one.
Earl GREY said,: that the object of the Bill was not to
secure prices at 805. 60s. or 553.. but to bring price to its na-
tural level. That was the object of the proposed measure, arid
he did not think the advocates of the Bill should be called
upon to say what the price of corn would be when it came into
operation. They might be as well called upon to say what the
price of tea, cotton, or any other commodity would be in the
event of modifications of the duty on those articles. The result
of all predictions as to price he found to be erroneous ; and he
therefore considered that it was unfair that they should b•
called upon to state what would be the price of corn consequent
on these changes.
The Duke of WELLINGTON rose to order. This de-
sultory discussion was entirely coatrary to rule. It was not
competent for them to go into the general question then, but
when the Bill went into Committee they might do so.
Atter a tew words from the Earl JTltAnaauKE and the
Earl FITZWILLIAM,
The Earl of RIPON moved the order of the day for going
into Committee on the Corn Importation Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND said that before going into
Committee, he wished to give notice, that when the second
reading of the Superintendent Convicts Bill came on, he
would move an amendment against it.
It was here intimated to the Noble Duke that the Bill was
I read a second time.
The Duke of RICHMOND—Then I think some one con-
nected with the Government ought to have made a statement
in reference to it. It was a Bill which required some ex-

planation.
Ihe Duke of WELLINGTON said that his Noble Friet:d
the Under Secretary for the Colonies had not made a long
speech, but he had made a few observations in support of the
Bill.

CORN IMPORTATION BILL.
On the order of the day that the House should go into
Committe on this Bill.
The Earl of WICKLOW proposed as an amendment to the
first clause, " That upon all wheat not the production of our
colonies, there should be a fixed duty of ss. instead of Is."
And should that amendment be affirmed, he should follow it
up by proposing a fixed duty on other descriptions of grain in
the same ratio. He had a'ready, in tl e course of the even-
ing, intimated to a Noble Friend of his that he had given no
notice of his intention to meve that amendment, but hi- reaso
fur doing so was his expectation that some Noble Lord on the
other side of the House would have proposed that amendment.
As that, however. was not likely to be the case, he felt him-
self bound to undertake the duty himself. The question was
so much and so discursorily d scussed, that he would confine
himself strictly to the object of his amendment. Before alludieg
to it, however, he must express his surprise that no
answer was given to the question put a short time since to
the Noble Earl :Ripon). He would take the question as to
price in the arguments of others. Some maintain that the
effect •f the present Bill would be to equalise the price of corn,
and to prevent fluctua ion. He did not agree with that
pinion, believing as he did, that the sliding-scale would effect
teat object much better, though he thought a fixed duty
would effsct that object better soli. W hat he wished, however,
to imeress ucon their Lordsh ps was. that if the great object of
the Bill he ,c) prevent great fluctuation in price the in-
troduction of the amendment he proposed would be meat likely
to secure that object. He saw no conceivable reason, also,
why the Government did not introduce a fixed duty on
ac-
count of the large revenue it would produce. Even suppose
this small fixed duty would have the effect of raising the price
of corn, it would have the effect of preventing the fluctuation
of price, as well as giving a greater increase to the revenue ;
and he, theref re, was of opinion that, on account of these
results, it ought to have been proposed. It appeared very
strange to hitn how the Right Rev. Prelate, who had very
lately been raised to honours and dignity, should be so ready
to strip the landed interest of this country of pretec-
tion.—( Hear, hear.) He felt convinced that. any measure
which would tend to injure the landed aristo racy would be
attended ti ith much danger. The first argument which struck
him was, would they tax the necessaries ot life? Why should
they tax every other necessary of life but corn. Now, with
regard to sugar, he considered that almost as much a necessary
of fee as any o her article, and still the tax was kept on. The
Noble and Learned Lord (Brougham) had stated that there
was a great difference between duty and revenue, and that for
that reason it was necessary to keep up duties on all other
articles. He saw no reason why the do' y should not be kept.
upon corn, if only for the purposes of the revenue. While
duties were paid on other articles of eunsumpti,n, be could not
vote for taking the corn daty. He believed that if it had not
been for an unfortunate letter written in January last—a letter
which was published for a very different purpose to that which
it had been supposed—if it had not beers for that letter he be-
lieved the present measure would never have been heard of.
He proposed the present amendment, not for the purpose of
keeeine up protection—he wanted not protection, but he
wanted to place the question upon a sure and certain basis. He
was prepared to say that if the present Ministry were to go
out of office—as out of office they would go very shortL —and
that Noble Lords on the other side of the House, who
would sec eed them, were to introduce a Bill with such a
clause as the one he now proposed, they would give very ge-
neral satisfaction. —(Hear. ) This was not the moment to
bring forward sup h a measure—a moment when two Republics
were at war with reel' other. A moment, too, when America
was successful. But whether she was successful or not, she
would be at no loss to find a ground of quarrel with this
country, even sueposing the Oregon question to be settled.
He would now conclude by proposing the amendment now
tefore the House.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that he would not
have risen at this moment but tor the allusion made by the
Noble Earl who had just sat down to the Noble Lords on his
side of the House, with respect to the amendment he had
proposed. He trusted that in opposing that clause he would
nut be leund inconsistent with the principles and op-nions
which he had always entertained on this subject. Looking to
the great weight and importance of the landed interest, and
at the feelings of those under them, he cons,dered these
parties should receive the greatest attention from the Govern-
ment of the day. At all times they were entitled to the consi-
deration of the House. It could not be denied that all protec-
tion kept up the rate of priees—(Hear, hear)—
and he supported the Bill because it would tend
to the reduction of those prices. Still he did not think the
reduction would be very great. He believed the prices on the
continent would rise, and the prices here would fall a little,
but the effect would be an equalisation of prices that would
operate to the advantage of the public. Those who talked ot
the danger to agriculture, and spoke of the peculiar burdens
en land, should recollect that the agriculturists had great ad-
vantages given them in good roads anti conveniences in ex-
change for these burdens. The equivalews in the shape of
these improvements were more than equal to any of the burdens
that were represented to press peculiarly on land. 'They had
appliances such as no other country had, and they ought to be
able successfully to compete with any foreign countries. When
they talked of the expenses in this country, they ought to
consider the conveniences they had compared with foreign
countries. If they had increased the prosperity of the country,
they increased the value of the land in the same ratio ; and if
the repeal of the protective taws led to an increase of prosperity,
as he believed it would, then would the landed interest
participate in that improvement. They had toile
to look at the enormous increase in the value of land
during the last hundred years to be persuaded of the advan-
tages that had resulted from an increase of commerce.—
( Hear, hear.) But they were told they ought to support a tax
on corn as a means of revenue. He agreed in that. He
thought this article should be equally subject to taxation as
any other article of consumption, He was net led away by the
clap-trap of cheap bread to oppose any tax on grain ; and he
thought to retain a five shilling duty would but operate little
as a measure of protection, and was not to be defended on that
ground. Neither did he think it would operate to any great
extent in the amount of 'price on wheat. There was ene
point which he was surprised had never been referred to,
namely, the great disproportion between the price of grain arid
the price of bread.—( Hear, hear.) The difference in the
price of grain between this country and foreign countries was
but lithe as compared with the difference in the price of bread.
He thought it would be wise to retain a email fixed duty for the
purpose of revenue, but he could not consent to endanger the
present Bill because it did not exactly propose what be should
like to see carried out. He must say that he had come to the
determination of supporting this Bill, precisely from the prin-
ciples which he had previously maintained on the subject of
the corn-laws. He seas not very strongly in favour of the
Bill or the manner in which it had been brought forward. He
agreed with the Noble Duke on the crossebenches as to what he
said a few nights ago, that 'the sliding-scale seemed to have
been introducA for the eurpese of embarrassing the agricultu-
rists. He could not conceive a bill more absurd than that
which lay on their Lordships' table. A Noble Lord had made
a most powerful speech, a few nights ago, in which he
showed that the sliding-scale was the most absurd sys-
tem that could by any possibility be devised.—(Hear.)
'That speech was supported by a great number of tabular proofs,
showing that the sliding-scale was a complete fiction and an
entire delusion ; it never had as yet secured a fixity in prices.
—(Hear, hear.) But this Bill continued the sliding-scale for
the next three years ; that most absurd system was retained in
the bill. He thought that the Prime Minister in advocating
this question rested his arguments in favour of it on the ground
that during the next two years this Bill would leave time for
more improvements in agriculture, and more draining. Why
wiufhdrametthitisstohret of an argument was that? In the first place
it was clear that it might be a sumed by such an argu-
mi.einath„imteseblafeotiiavdmitted even by the advocates and supporters
eoolxfn,
wouldntceewn a:
finadorcs:
tewga
ai Minister
that
we
aa
o n draining rwwa Ball,tr u
truth
that f
suchthe removal of
argument.
t .protection i
Prime Minister
a gri
hadl-
onut dl
dibnej
lea
eteh e agriculturalbyth eßi
eir len taonsdnFh an observation, and that they must go
ich
l. He
nseovredreari.
itaor(,gmeteheeth agriculturists,i ffic eas.
and
n havingwh
argumentnin than that in his life never heard amore absurd
ear, hear.)
njuTr
hoHeu
sepi happenedyro
ptoo.atheirl
to
they
uebe acquainted width
interests.
talked
H e ondi d this
n admittedperso.nunanimouslye
that the sliding-scale
ohtahaduetba)Pireecortanteedsimync,olset
sliding-scale would be to their interest.
maintain the sliding-scale for the next three years would have
the effect of disturbing the different relations of the country
with respect to the question of the corn-laws This Bill
ursetifcethteo
Crown
ewgrn eraetstepdrinthcii!iletholif
principallyf res‘eiat .
ieacnta.;l:ilnteeid the famine in Ireland. He (the
for one, did not attempt to depreciate
in Ireland in the smallest degree. He
mfoirtythe most part, confined to particular lo-
ckan;e:iestiritt :lid not amount to a famine.—( Hear, hear.) There
were, no doubt, small localities, detached from large towns,
whe. a distress did phrehvaitlhy were;ebutit would
now
discussingb e absurd
in h
to sayt e
that this measure, which
would have the effect of meeting
Ireland. in The calamity had,
easing. But the Government took,
no doubt, been increasing. tmhoentl;resoefnt
measures on that subject.—(Hear
the most admirable . •
et. r to tc, slacia activity
hear.) tic c+r-e ma Was
June,