The Sun.
London, England, 1841-12-27 00:00:00

EVENTN4 SUN

MANCHESTER AND LEEDS RAIL-
WAY:
(From the Manchester Courier of Friday.)
Yesterday a spscial meAing of the Snarcholders in
this railway was held at the Company's offices, Hunt's
Bank, "for the purpose of taking into consideration a
proposal that t/lie said Company shall unite with several
other Railway Companies, for the purpose of promot-
ing the formation of a line from Darlington to New-
castle; which line, when formed, will complete the
railway communication between London and Newcastle,
and also between Manchester and Newcastle ; also to
consider the propriety of proceeding with the extension
of the Manchester and Leeds line to Hunt's Bank."
There we rather a numerous attendance, about 50 or
60 Shareholders being present. Amongst them we
observed the Hon. Captain Best, R.N., Thomas
Houldsworth, Esq., M.P., John Feildcn, Esq., M.P.,
William Marshall, Esq., of Preston, James Heald,
Esq., of Parswood, Joseph Pease, Esq., of Darlington,
James Woad, Esq., William Entsvisle, Esq., and
nearly all f:e largo Shareholders, representing about
seven-eighth,7 of the entire stock of the Company. Tee
chair was filled by Henry Houldsworth, Esq , the
Chairman of the Board of Directors.
Mr. JELLICONE, the Secretary, having read the ad-

vernsement,
• The CHAIRMAN said, of the two questions they hail
to consider, that of the Hunt's Bank xtcnsion was so
Jewell the most important, that it would be better to
discuss it first. The Directors regretted that, since the
last meeting of the Proprietors of that Company, there
had not appeared to be any change in the feelings of
the Liverpool and Manchester Company, with regard
to proceeding with their part of this project; and it
could not be denied, from the short time which had now
to elapse before the power of purchasing land ee-
pired, that they had every reason to conclude that the
Liverpool and Manchester Company had determined
not to proceed with the junction. Hence, this Com-
pany were placed in a situation of great difficulty ; the
whole question bad been forced on the consideration
of the Board, and must now be submitted to the Pro-
prietor:4, as the time allowed them for the purchase of
land expired in July next. The views of the Board
were unchanged with regard to the advantage of
harming the junction, and all the experience they had
gaMed by the working of the line, only tended to con-
firm their opinion of the great advantage that would
result Con•efrorn. Tnis project originated in the year
16re ; i., July of that year, the first conference between
the Liverpool Board and this Company to'k place.
On the 23d of that month a letter was received from
tile Secretary of that Company, stating that the Di-
sectors were confirmed in their first impression of form-
icg tar e junction, and were ready to enter into the fleece-
sexy preliminery arrangements. Oa the 31st of the
same uiooth they reported to their Proprietors that a
proposition had been made for a junction, and that it
would receive their best attention. In September they
entered into negotiations with the Bolton Railway
Company, over a part of whose line the junction hoe
wee to pass.. On the 221 October, the Secretary
of the Manchester and Leeds Company sent them
plans of the junction, and an estimate of the traffic,
accompani,d, however, with a request that they
would consider the traffic estimate as the best opi-
nion that could be offered at that particular time.
In November, it was necessary to give notice of
an application to Parliament, which the Liverpool
Company did ; the uegotiatiou with the Bolton Com-
pany was going on in the meantime, and there appeared
to have been considerable difficulty in coining to an ar-
rangement. Toe first proposition was, that the junction
should be made by the three Companies : by the Leeds
Company from their present station to Hunt's 'Bank ;
the Belton Company should continue the line over the
river to their etetion; and that the Liverpool Company
:should clo the remainder. This was objected to, and
the negotiation was carried 'on the principle of the Li-
verpnol Company making the whole of the junction line
from Hieut'e Bank, and paying a toll to the Bolton
Company ; road the negotiation with the Bolton Com-
pany was not settlei when the parties west to Par-
liament. Both the Liverpool and Leeds Companies
applied about the same time for Parliamentary powers.
Mr. Gill, then the representative of the Leeds Com-
pany in London, was anxious that the Companies should
enter into an engagement to complete the junction in
two years; but the Liverpool Company declined to
enter into such arrangement. This was the first inti-
mation they gave of anything like indecision on the
subject of the junction ; it was in March, 1839. About
that time a request was sent to the Leeds Company for
their estimates of the traffic. Mr. Stanway had been em-
ployed several months in making them out; but they were
sent to the Liverpool Company on the 23d March. On
the 25th the Secretary of that Company addressed a
latter to Mr. Gill, asking for explanations of certain
items ; and the same letter stated that one or two largely
interested Proprietors in the Liverpool Company had
had a conference with the Directors, and had intimated
their desire to have more definite and conclusive informa-
tion with regard to the remuneration likely to be derived
from the junction, re-id had stated that they would not
oppose the Directors in bringing !I proposition before the
Proprietors if' they would agree to submit the whole
question to them arreha at a future day. On the 9th
April, this Company roce:ved a letter from Mr. Loch,
the representative of' the Bridgewater interest in the
Liyerporil and Mainihester Company, containing a
copy of' a letter he had addressed to the Chairman of
that Company, calling att:ntion to a junction of rail-
ways round the southern part of this town, and re-
presenting that he believed such connection could be
made at a less cost, and would be more beneficial to
the public. That communication came a very few
days after the communication of Mr. Boothby wherein
lie said that two or three largely interested Proprietors
were not convinced of the benefit of the connections.
The letter was remitted to Mr. Gill in London ; but
the Liverpool Company proceeded in obtaining their Act
for the Northern Junction, which they obtained in June
of that year. In the meantime, no more was heard of
the Southern Junction, and they very naturally cencluded
that it had died a natural death, as it appeared to persons
locally acquainted with Manchester, quite out of the
question thet such a line would ever be made, as what,

ever benefits it might possess for other Companies, it was
certainly not calculated to promote the interest of the
Lirerpool Company. In June, 1839, the half-yearly
meeting of the Liverpool Company was held, when the
Direet)rs pledged themselvesto bring the matter before
the Shareholders at a future period, before proceeding
with the junction. No more was done till October,
when the Liverpool Company pointed out some discre-

panties in the traffic estimates, stating that they hac

derived information from other sources which showed
that the amount of traffic was immeasurably less than
%vas contained in the estimate of the Leeds Company.
They'could only refer to the principles, which were the
same as had guided Mr. Stanway in making the esti-
mate for this line and others. His estimate of the
traffic passing along the Leeds and Liverpool canal was
89,000 tons per annum ; and that 210,000 tons per
annum passed through Manchester on the Rochdale
canal. The mode in which he obtained these facts was
to station ,for a week, men at different points upon
the canal, to take the tonnage of the vessels that passed,
and to obtain from the Captain or the men information
as to the destination of the cargo. But, to ascertain
the traffic to Manchester was a matter of very great
difficulty, because of the water commnnications through
Mareliester, there was a delivery at the lower end of
the t 0.,,,, a delivery at the upper end of the town at
Piet:3(l;llc, and gpassing throughoods
the town. He,l
,
however, took the traffic at the Castle Field lock, at
the lower end of the town ; at the Minshull-street lock
in the c‘ntre ; and
nt the Islington lock, out of the
town towards Yorkshire ;
and from the result obtained,
he considered that 210,000 tons were
passingo annually
through Manchester from Liverpool towards Yorkshire.
by the Liverpool The estimate brought forward 01 and
Manchester Company was. that, instead of 89,000
tons, there were only 17,000 tons passing along
L' that
45,000 Leeds and Liverpool Canal, and ti‘"
Liver_,
,
45,000 was the tot al tonnawe between
pool and places cast of Blanchester. Every en.
.
ills..
deevour was made to discover the cause of thus
crepancy, and deputations from the two Companies
met
for the purpose of conferring on the subject ; but after
a lengthened sitting, it was found impossible to convince
the Liverpool Directors that there was any error in
their estimates, and the Leedi Directors could see no

good ground for supposing that thcro was any error in
theirs ; and fr.-at discrepancy remained to the present
time. In January, 1840, the Liverpool Company drew
np a minute r.;fcrring to this subject, which might be

considered as their manifesto, stating the grounds why
they, demurred to proceed with the junction line,
Which were principally the discrepancy in the estimates,
and the projected Southern Junction. The conclusion
from this neces:Arily was, that the Liverpool Company
not ordy were not desirous to move forward, but

were anxious to find arguments for delay, and for post-
!lnning the formation of the junction indefinitely. This
Cortpany had always viewed it in thrtt light, and
tllou,h not much attention had been paid to the sug-
gestions of a second junction, it did, in some degree,
occupy the attention of the engineers and Directors of
that co-,;alpzny ;
and they had come to the conclusion
that it would be more expensive than the Northern
Junetioth and that the 'Manchester and Birmingham
Company would have no interest to induce them to
join in making such a junction. If the Liverpool
Company demurred to spend 2.50,000/., the estimated
expense of the Hunt's Bank junction, to secure the
traffic of the Leeds Company, which there was no
doubt, f:orn the district their line traversed, must be
throe. o: four times the extent of that which they
would derive from the Birmingham Company—it never
could be the interest of the Birmingham Company to
spend an equal sum, for the interest they would have
in the junction. And they had come to the conclusion
that it was not a line that would ever be made, unless
the Liverpool Company would undertake to make the
greater part of it, which there was no reason to ex
Pe• Plans,
ct however, had been deposited previous
to this, in order to go to Parliament, for this line
Two or three months after the publication of the do-
cument referred to, a deputation from the Liverpool
Company waited on the Leeds Board, suggesting that

they should get an act to make their extension to that
station of the Birmingham Railway ; but this scheme
appeared so impracticable that they were told it would
be impossible for the Leeds Company to make such
extension, unless:the Liverpool Company were prepared,
not only to bear a considerable part of the expense, but
also to bear harmless the Leeds Company in the ex-
pense already incurred iu the Hunt's Bank extension.
And his impression was that the deputation of the Li-
verpool Company left them with the impression that
the junction line they proposed could never be effected.
Since, then, however, a communication had been made,
from parties professionally employed in the Duke of
Bridgewater's interest, to the effect that it was exceed-
ingly desirable that the southern junction shou'id be per-
severed in, and these parties were exceedingly anxious
to have it carried out. Knowing that the Duke of
Bridgewater's interest was so important at the Liver-
pool and Manchester Board, they were bound most
carefully to consider this subject ; and by showing the
impracticability and improbability of its being carried
out, they should much simplify the course of the Liver-
pool Company, as well as their own. The length of the
southern junction would be 5,000 yards of new work,
while thet of the Hunt's Bank junction was but 4,035.
It would be, in fact,two miles and eight-tenthswholly upon
arches. It would cross the river Irwell, Water-street,
Deansgate, Oxferd-road, Garratt-road, Loadon-road,
Ancoats-street, and Oldham-road ; seven of the princi-
pal streets in the town. It would cross the river Med-
lock four times, and at one point the river itself would
have to be diverted ; and as that river was thickly
studded with works of all kinds, it might easily be sup-
pose:l that a line skirting that river would cut through
a great deal of valuable property. It would cross the
canal five times between the Birmingham station and
the Liverpool line, and he could not say exactly what
number of times between the Birmingham station and
their own. Then there were difficulties about the
station, which would have to be in Ducie-street ; the
existence of the canal, of coal yards, and of several large
factories on the other side, rendered it impossible to ob-
tain adequate station-room there. So far as his recol-
lection went, the Liverpool engineers estimated the cost
at 700,0001., while the northern junction would be but
400,500/. ; of this 700,0001., the amount entailed on the
Leeds Company, would cause to them a difference of
50,0001. in eagineering; and, including the value of the
laud, the cost would be nearly doubled. The Hunt's Bank
extension line passed over ground that was scarcely half
built on, while the other would take in a great number
of most important buildings. The further they looked
into this question, the more did they see the impossibi-
lity of carrying out such a line ; and the Liverpool
Board could not, entertain any expectation of its being
completed in any reasonable perio,i. The only other
objection of any consequence was as to the traffic. It
might be exceedingly difficult, by any statement of
figures, to make it clear that the junction would be a
remunerative one ; but, looking at the general cir-
cumstances of the ease, nothing could he more
clearly demonstrated. Mr. Stanway had taken the
trail; estimate on the same principle as he prepared
the estimate for their line. Their Parliamentary es-
timate was 113,0001. per annum ; and during the last
six months they had received at the rate of 96,0001. per
annum. And it was notorious, however much they
might be deceived by estimates of expense, traffic esti-
mates in general were exceedingly correct, time being
allowed for the development of the traffic. On that
ground they had a right to presume that Mr. Stan-
way's estimate would be borne out. But there was
another way of putting the mattes. The inhabitants of
Manchester and the district around amounted to 800,000
or 900,000. The Liverpool Company had a traffic of
4,000 tons per week, and the water communications of
probably 10,000 tuns ; making a traffic between Liver-
pool and this district of 14,000 tons weekly. Conti-
nuous to this line, in Yorkshire, was a population ex•
needing a million ; these must consume as much as the
same number of people in Lancashire, and must draw
their supplies either from Liverpool or London. Now
the estimate of the Liverpool Company would go to
show that not one-tenth of the amount of produce and
other articles which necessarily came from Liverpool
to supply this part of Lancashire, did come to supply
the million of people in Yorkshire. This led to the
conclusion that there must be some error in the estimate
en which the Liverpool Company relied. Now, were
the inhabitants of Yorkshire supplied from Liver-
pool or London ? If from Liverpool, the amount
must be vastly greater than their estimate showed ;
if from London, it proved the importance of the
Liverpool Company increasing the facility of com-
munication between their town and that largely con-
suming district.—(Heir, hear.) Another considera-
tion was, that traffic was limited in a most extraordi-
nary degree by any interruption of the continuity of
railways. Their traffic was now nearly double its
amount when the line was but partially open. What
was the communication between Yorkshire and Liver-
pool, but a partially epened railway ? There was a
blank here at. Manchester ; and what inconvenience
could be greater than the tumbling out of carriages of
one railway into an Ounciik,U3, null lap Bing to ‘.l.lve
through the streets of a crowded town, at ten or
twelve miles an hour, for the purpose of catching the
other train ? That inconvenience was increasing
daily, as the number of their passengers increased.
Then the expense of carting (foods through the town,
and rodoading them, and the delay which this caused,
must materially diminish the amount of goods thus
conveyed. Taking these two subjects into considera-
tion, they believed a very large increase of traffic
would take place if a junction line were formed ; and
it should be remembered that a very small increase
would remunerate them for the outlay. An increase of
100 tons a day would secure to the Liverpool Company
an interest of more than fire per cent, on their outlay ;
and Capt. Laws was prepared to state that more than
double the necessary amount of remuneration would
accrue to them, if they would form this junction.
Looking at the question as one simply between the

j northern junction and no junction at all, and looking
at it as a question of cost on the part of the Liverpool
and Manchester Company, he had no hesitation in
saying, that if that Company would put the question
on that ground, the Directors of the Leeds Company
would submit to their Proprietors, at a special meet-
ing, a proposition for guaranteeing the Liverpool
Company, in the event of their completing the junction
from any loss that might arise, and forgiving this guaran-
tee on condition of receiving but one-half the advan-
tage that would accrue from the junction.—(Applause.)
And we know enough of the sentiments of some large
Proprietors in this Company to say that they would
cheerfully support the Directors in such a proposition.—
(Applause.) It had always been the wish of the Direc-
tors of the Liverpool Company to secure this junction ;
but in order to ensure its advantages it would be neces-
sary that the most cordial and thorough understanding
should exist between the two Companies, and that the
mode of working the traffic should be most harmonious,
and on that ground he had wished to avoid, in giving this
historical detail, anything which might seem to re-
flect on the Liverpool Company. They now came to the
great question, what course this Company ought to
adopt under these circumstances ? Though it might
be a question, whether, if they were starting de
novo, the advantage of the water communication
would be such as to justify the expenditure they
must incur in extending their line to Hunt's Bank ;
but in the position in which the Company stood,
it was a fair question to consider whether it might
not be to the interest of the Company, and might
not ultimately bring about the communication they
wished to establish, if the Proprietary should acqui-
esce in the Directors proceeding with the junction.
He did not present that as a resolution at which
the Board had arrived without great difficulty, or
as one of a very satisfactory nature, but he believed
it to be the most satisfactory conclusion which they
could come to under the circumstances. The

communication by water had certainly increased
very much of late ; and there was the advantage of
goods being carried by night, by which the time con-
, sunned might be said to be almost neutralised. Looking
at the capability of the river for extension and improve-
ment, and looking at the effect which it would have on
the navigations if this Company decided on making the
Propextension, he thought the arguments decidedly
preponderatedbad anxiously in favour of such a course. The Board
considered the subject, and had come to
They that decision.
!y wished, however, to throw the
question upon the
deal with itProprietors, believing that they would
they thought best. They should
be glad to
igiven thee Way
n f
but he thought thyereurther information in their power ;
delaying the matter. would be no advantage in further
Mr. MAnsuALL, of Preston 1'
thorising the Directors to proceed with
a motion, au-
with the formation of
the extension line. The motion was seconded by Mr.
JAMES HEALD.
In answer to questions from Air.
mPEASE, of Dar-
lington, the CitataaN said that Mr. G
esti-
mate of the cost of completing the
line, in theoch's
perfect manner, as originally contemplated was 21, most
_ 4,0001.
ter his part of the works. Upwards of 30,000/. had
been already expended in land, and it was estimated
that nearly 40,0001. more would be required ; the to.
tal amount being about 200,000/. By a more recent
and economical estirnato, the total cost might be
brought within 160,0001. or 170,0001., on the suppo_
sitiou that the buildings they were then in were made
suitable for a station. Of this sum, 30,000/. had al-
ready been paid for land ; so that the difference in ex-
pense, between remaining as they were and completing
the extension, would only be I°o,ooo/. or 130,0001.
Mr. J. FIELDEN wished to pledge the Directors to
adopt the lowest estimate, but the feeling of the meet-
ing was against their being fettered ; and the motion

was put and unanimously carried.
After a lucid statement from the Chairman, of the
circumstances under which the Company were asked to
Join in a guarantee to the Shareholders of the Northern

Union Railway, from Darlington to Newcastle,
Mr. JAMES HEALD moved that the Company should
join in the guarantee to the extent of 2,0001. a year,
on certain conditions recommended by the Director',
the principal being that the cost of the railway should
not exceed 500,0001., that six per cent. should be gua-
ranteed to the Shareholders for tea years, and that the