The Sun.
London, England, 1841-09-30 00:00:00

THE "TIMES " v. THE MINISTRY !

We deeply regret that Ministers should have departed
from the discreet reserve which, upon other subjects,
they seem to have proscribed to themselves, for the
purpese of disappointing, in a most material point, the
hopes which we and many others had conceived of them.
It was, impossible; indeed, that we should not have en-
tertained certaiii-inisgivings, when we saw Sir James
Graham•sek:cted for the office of Home Secretary ;' yet,
upon the whole, it seemed not inconsistent with the
tone adopted by that Right Hon. Baronet in the last
Session of Parliament, and throughout by Sir Robert
Peel, to believe that they were prepared to re-con-
sider the principle as well as the details of the New
PooiLlaw. Even so late as on Monday evening Sir
James Graham declared that during the interval between o
the present and the approaching Session every portion f
that law would be carefully- reviewed ; and certainly we
did hope that this review would be carried on without
a foregone determination upon any particular ques•
tion involved in it. But in Tuesday's debate the un-
welcome, and to us unexpected, announcement was
made, that the Home Secretary holds himself " con-
scientiously pledged to the principle of that measure, al-
though it may require some consideration, and be sus-
ceptible of some amendments ;" and that he will
not recede from it." Recede from it, of course, he
cannot, while he feels himself under a conscientious
obligatiOn to pursue the opposite course ; but how this
supposed obligation can present itself to his mind under
the 'form of a pledge, we are really at a loss to under-
stamj, Does he. mean that, in a matter which depends
entirely upon practice, he feels his moral freedom of ac-
tion, and his power of attending to the results of expe-
rience, compromised by what he may have said or done
antecedently to experience ? If so, we cannot augur
good-from the administration of such a statesman.
The principle of the New Poor-law, if we at all
understand it, consists in this—that it establishes a
floating legislative discretion in the place of laiv,
and substitutes a central for a local authority. This,
or, in other words, the poWer of the Poor-law Com-
missioners, is the essence, . the whole sum and sub-
stance, of the act 011834. ,And the principle of the ad-
ministrative system, or of the law for the time being
laid down by the Commissioners, in the exercise of the
authority thus devolved upon them, consists in the work-
house test. To both of these, we fear, Sir Robert Peel's
Government must now be considered pledged. What
the consequences may be, we grieve to think. To us,
personally, they will involve the painful necessity of
waging war, with as much perseverance as ever,
upon principles with which the Ministers whom we
support will from this time be identified. The
poor must submit to the postponement, for an in-
definite period, of that just and constitutional settle-
ment of the law on which their interests so largely de-
pend—a settlement which we had vainly flattered our-
selves it was reserved for the present Administration to
effect. The Government must be prepared for a formi-
dable diminution of that enthusiastic confidence which
a fortnight since was at their command, and will pro-
bably find the preservation of order during the ensuing
winter infinitely more difficult than if they had taken a
different course. The remote effect upon the duration of
Sir Robe#'•Peel's ascendancy we shall not pretend to
foretel, but we fear this untoward resolution will prove
a heavy blow and discouragement to Conservatism, and
greatly! strengthen the hands of the Opposition, espe-
cially upon the subject of the Corn-laws.
It is to-us inconceivable how any statesman, who has
attended to the lessons of history, can fail to see that
the perpetuation in a free country of such an institution
as the Poor-law Commission, is not merely an impolitic
or an unjust measure, but an impossibility. We are sure
that if the whole Biitish nation could be polled, an
overwhelming- majority would affirm the sentiments of
Mr. Wortley, 'the Conservative Member for the largest
constituency in the kingdom. "No man," he said,
" could deny that the powers of the Commissioners,
notwithstanding they were overlooked by the Se-
cretary of State, and notwithstanding he was re-
sponsible to that House for the manner in which
they were used, were unusual and extensive, and, looking
to the principle of the matter, unconstitutional. They
would not be justified in continuing the Commission one
moment beyond the necessity, for he felt that one of the
most valuable parts of the social institutions of this coun-
try was that habit of local self-government which had
prevailed from the remotest ages. This was not his
opinion only, but the opinion of many of the best and
wisest men of all times."
If so, a Minister who pledges himself to act upon the
contrary principle in the Government of England, is like
a man who deliberately swallows a dose of slow poison,
or lays a train of gunpowder for his own destruction.
With respect to the workhouse test; Sir James Graham
justly observed on Monday, when Mr. Yorke's amend-
ment was under discussion, that it would be impossible
to avoid the separation of husband and wife, and parent
from child, while this test was maintained. But he
might as soon hope to regulate the seasons by Act of
Parliament as to reconcile the feelings of the people of
England to this practice. Why should the deserving
poor of this country be worse treated than the West
India negroes ?
We see no reason, as yet, to abandon the hope of
obtaining from the Conservative Ministry considerable
and Valuable amendments, in points of detail, which
could not have been obtained from their predecessors.
But, even upon this head, much that was unsatisfactory
fell from• the Home Secretary in the course of his
speech. He went out of his way to express his confi-
dence in the Poor-law Commissioners ;he claimed
credit for them, as for a meritorous action, be-
cause they have at last begun to discontinue the
scandalous evasion with which they have hitherto in-
sulted the Legislature in the matter of general orders ;
and he represented• their amended prohibitory order,
which they themselves state to be more restrictive than
thatitir which it has been substituted, as " a most im-
portant relaxation." We fear Sir James Graham has a
strong taint of Whiggery about hint still. He may de-
pend upon it that the country participates in the views
expressed by Mr. Grimsditch on D londay, and that he
will fail to give satisfaction if he surrenders his judg-
ment into the hands of functionarie s who (we shrewdly
suspect) place no confidence whatever in him. " I trust,"
said 111 r. Grimsditch, " that in any Bill which the Right
Hon. ,Baronet may bring in on this subject, he will not
rely upon information which emanates from Somerset-
houseebut will form his opinions from the experience of
others;•and from other statements."
Having said thui much, we shall reserve the further
expression of our opinion upon the conduct of the Go-
vernment with reference, to this question, till we see in
next Session what they actually mean to do. In the
meantime, though they have disappointed us, and
though we think they have co mmitted a most serious
error of judgment, we Cannot forget that upon subjects
of general policy they are entitled to our confidence,
and"- 'dig even upon this we I nave more to hope from
theca than from their adversarie ss.

:ONEY MARKET s nd CITY NEWS.

- -
FROM THE MORNING PA] 'ERR OP THIS DAY.
TnIES.-II is now ascertained that the dividend duo
on-the • lArproximo on Brazilian Stock will be paid as
heretokirb ; but it was not known till a late hour of the
day,, as negotiations were obliged to take place between
the representative of that Government and the contrac-
tors, before an arringemeiit, could be come to. The
delay in advertising the payment of the dividend in re-
gular course is explained, by the parties connected with
the business, as originating the dislike of the Minister
here to draw bills upon Rio for the amount of dividends,
when he was in daily expectation of receiving re-
mittances sufficient to answer all purposes. Finding,
however, that his expectations were not realised, he
has, we believe, been obliged to adopt that course after
all ; and it is to be regretted that he did not determine
upon it earlier, instead of allowing the time to press so
closely upon the day of payment, without any notification
whsteser • concerning it, whereby the credit of the
Brazils has been So 'severely affected, as demonstrated by
the decline in the value of its Stock of three-and-a-half
per cent. in one day. It is the more inexcusable, as the
expedieutthe,refused to adopt has been on more than ono
occasion resorted to.
The Rnglish Stocks wore firmer to-day, the tightness
of money which existed in this and the Foreign market
having been relieved by the advances which the Bank
Broker made on Stock at Five per Cent. ; but what was
something `singular, and created gossip in the market,
although it did not affect values, was the refusal made in
the after-part of the day to continue to accommodate on
the same termS.

Attention Was drawn in. the course of the day to the
',°llowing notice, which was posted at Lloyd's:—
"ISCOVERY OF A STRATA OF SULPHUR AT
TRIPOLI.

, Office of Committee of Privy Council for Trade,
Whitehall, Sept. 28, 1641.
r, zit—l am directed by the Lords of the Committee of Privy
~1-etincil for Trade to acquaint you, for the information of the
4',..lerehants engaged in the Sulphur-Trade, that intelligence has
v"a received from her Majesty's Consul at Tripoli, of the
4443(1
existence in that Regency of extensive strata of sulphur of a
quality.—I am, Sir, your obedient servant.
J.
Wu.
1 iam Dobson, Esq., Secretary of LIoyd'MACGREGOR.s. ii If the sulphur here alluded to is really of a good qua-
flY, :Ind exists to a great extent, this discovery may be
Rinesitlered of importance, for at present the sulphur trade,
the unsatifactory result of the negotiations with the
of Naples, is in as bad a condition as possible, the
a ritimll owners of sulphur being encumbered with so heavy
a e:rport duty, that they find it an impossibility to
)..priipete with the Neapolitan Government, which, with
.41° efuantity of sulphur, which it took from Taix and
I`,-;lee on nullifying the contract, and which it exported
bob °I atY, continually bears down the market. It is
repeued that4the Neapolitan Government resorted to a
°;a.l of the export duty almost in self-defence, for it
Pti itself with a large stock of sulphur on its hands,
while Pyrites and such substitutes, by coming into fre-
cliuent; use, are rapidly diminishing the value of sulphur
an tog( .ther. The opening of a new vein, entirely uncon-
ectei 1 with Sicily,might operate beneficially for our
merchants in twoways—in the first place as a fresh
source of supply-A-and in the second it might act as a
friel_ll of bringing the King of Naples to more satisfac-
wry erms, even in
the article. ' the face of the declining value of
le eaarkliVlllMg .'
l'he Bank of England has been
rk
the 21 it of October, it money to-da upon stock at 5 per cent., until
taken ,it, 86, thus
all y The stock, we understand, will be
agains..a fall. The wing full 3 per cent. of a margin
favour fbl• y influenced ttardke t has in. consequence beenon has beat alleviated. aY, and the pressure for m TThisy is exactly as
we
ChaneJlor of the Exche expected. Seeing that the
mud, . ad that the Goeeen(iinuee. had fairly stuck in the
Lt which he represents were
mail, lo obtain a paltry aid of two and a half millions
to heb them in their extreunt
has ha] pity on their misfortun4' th°
Bank of England
:wend generously comes
forWatl • with assistance by
such ease to the
Mune; Market as may tend gt.eir induce parties to be-
come iubscribers for the remaining one and a half mil
lions, and if they will only take the and
to do the

equal part also in money. This manoeuvre of the Bank
parlour is much better considered than the half-and-
half project of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which
had no charms fur the Hebrew party, and offered no
adequate inducement to capitalists. We do not know
either that there is much to be said at present
against this operation by the Bank. It will no
doubt be brought forward by the Directors as a
strong ground at the proper season for a re-
newal of their charter on favourable terms. The
public may lay their account with that as an in-
evitable consequence. The. Directors will not fail to
remind the Tory Government, " that a friend in need is
a friend indeed,' and that such obligations are not to be
forgotten or overlooked. But as the Corn averages are
falling, and the duties rising, there is no great risk of any
drain from fresh importations of corn until the spring.
Barring, therefore, any internal drain of specie, we see
no ground for anticipating that the currency will be ex-
posed to fresh derangement fur some time, and this
measure of relief will be extremely seasonable at present
in stopping some appearances of an:unfavourable character
in the west of England, regarding confidence in country ,
issues.

SUN.—The Market for Public Securities wore rather a
more buoyant appearance to-day, and there was a mode
rate-business doing. Consols got up to 89 and 89* for
immediate transfer, and to 89* and 89;1 for Account.
Exchequer. Bills were still rather heavy at 12s. to 14s.
premium; and in India Bonds there were no bargains.
The NeW Three-and-a-Half per Cents. brought 981 to
I. India Stock Was_at 246 k to 247.
The Foreign Market did not fluctuate much, the chief
business being the settlement of the Half-monthly Ac-
count. Active Spanish Stock was at 221 to f ; Portu-
guese New at 30* ; the Three per Cents. at 18f ; Rus-
sian 1121 to and Dutch Two-and-a-Half per Cents. at
HI to a.
The few bargains effected in the Share Market were
in some instances at a turn 'in favour of the sellers.
Great Western were 11 to 12 ; the New, 3f to ; the
South Western 12 ; and the York and North Midland,
New, 10 premium. Brighton were 511- to 44 ; Blackwell
15 ; and North Midland, New, 8 discount. Colonial
Bank Shares were 54 • Provincial Bank of Ireland 16 to
17, and Union Bank of Australia 5f premium.

BANQUET at the MANSION-HOUSE.
Yesterday the Lord Mayor gave a grand dinner at
the Mansion-house to the Lord Mayor elect, and the
Sheriffs for the ensuing year. The entertainment dis-
played all the resources of civic hospitality, embracing
every delicacy of the season. Amongst the company we
observed Admiral Sir R. Stopford, Commodore Sir C:
Napier, Mr. Walter Smith, the Hon. and Rev. Mr.
Stopford, Captain James Stopford, Mr. Arthur Stopford,
Sir Alexander Johnstone, Mr. John Walter, Captain
Griffin, Captain Fanshaw, Mr. William Stopford, Mr,
Mitchel, Captain Bradley, Mr. Weston, Lieutenant
Johnstone, Mr. Charles Johnson, Dr. Croly, Mr. John
Lowden, Mr. C.lWilson, jun., Dr. Stebbing, Aldermen
Sir C. S. Hunter, Brown, Lucas, Sir J. Key, Sir Peter
Laurie, Sir J. Cowan, Wilson, Pirie, Thomas Wood,
Hurnphery, Magnay, Gibbs, J. Johnson, Sir G. Carroll,
Hooper, Sir J. Duke Farncomb, the Hon. C. E. Law,
Sheriffs Magnay and Rogers, Under-Sheriffs Britten and
Pritchard, Secondaries James and Potter, the City So-
licitor, . the City Remembrancer, the Comptroller, the
High Bailiff of Southwark, &c.
The cloth having been removed,
The LORD MAYOR rose to propose the first toast. He
was sure they all respected, reverenced, and loved our
most gracious Queen, and he had no doubt they were all
true to the church. He therefore begged leave to pro-
pose " The Church and Queen."—(Loud cheers.)
The next toast proposed by the Lord Mayor, was the
" Queen Dowager Prince Albert, and the rest of the
Royal Family," which was drunk with three times three.
The LORD MAYOR, in proposing the next toast, felt
assured that the gallant exploits of the distinguished
officers who were now present, and who had so recently
distinguished themselves in the service of this country,
and her allies, on the coast of Syria, must be fresh in
the recollection of all he had the honour to address.
The freedom of the city of London had recently been
voted to Admiral Sir Robert Stopford, Sir C. Napier,
and Sir C. F. Smith, who, although now absent in the
service of his country at Gibraltar, was not forgotten.—
(Cheers.) He begged, without further preface,
to propose " The Navy and Army, and many thanks to
the Gallant Admiral, for his conspicuous and most suc-
cessful exertions to maintain and extend the fame of the
British arms on the coast of Syria."
Sir R. STOPFORD was well aware that he must ex-
press very inadequately the feelings he entertained upon
this occasion, in having his health drunk in so distin-
guished a manner by his fellow-citizens now present.
This was an honour of which any suLject of this realm
might well be proud, and he could assure them he should
always entertain the most grateful' recollection of their
kindness.—(Cheers.) On his first arrival in Portsmouth
he had been greeted with the most splendid entertain-
ment.by the inhabitants of that town, and subsequently
by the officers and Royal Marines who were there present.
On that occasion he was glad to mention his high ap-
probation of the conduct of every man and officer whom
lie had the honour of having under him. He particularly
mentioned the name of the Gallant Commodore near
him (Sir Charles Napier), and he wished also, to
mention the name of the Austrian Admiral, Ban-
doira, who to someconsiderable extent contributed to tfie
success of his operations. He regretted he did not see
preseneSir C. Smith, his colleague, who was intended to
command the troops ,at the siege of Acre. His severe ill-
ness prevented him taking any active part at the com-
mencement of the operations; but when, subsequently,
on his return from 'Acre to Beyrout, Ibrahim Pacha was
reported within two days' march, and when Sir Charles
Smith was urged to march across the mountains and at-
tack him in the valley near Damascus, that Gallant Of-
ficer saw the inutility of attacking him with but a small
body of cavalry, owing to the advantage of the position
which he occupied, yet his Gallant Friend nevertheless
predicted that before a certain number of days Ibrahim
Paella would be compelled to decamp and proceed to-
wards Damascus for want of food. And so the fact really
turded out, so well did Sir C. Smith know the situation
of Ibrahim's army.—(Cheers.) He mentioned this as a
singular proof of the discrimination, professional know-
ledge, and distinguished ability which that Gallant Officer
possessed, although he had not, unfortunately from ill
health, an opportunity of signalising himself in the
action. With respect to the part which he himself had
acted in these affairs, he could not but consider himself
one of the most fortunate men of his time in having the
command at that particular period of Ms service of the
gallant band who acted under him on the coast of Syria.
--(Cheers.) In the course of a few weeks, he might
rather say a few hours, they had brought to a sucessful
issue, by the naval force of the country, an important
point, which three volumes of diplomatic correspondence
would scarcely have advanced towards so satisfactory an
adjustment.—(Cheers.) He must say that, during the
short period of these transactions, he had to struggle
with some diplomatic difficulties. He had found,
however, that diplomatic gentlemen, though extremely
tenacious of their rights and relations, were liable to
err like common men ; but although their plans
were presumed to be dictated in all instances by
unerring sagacity, he believed he had shown them
that decided action was sometimes better than length-
ened, if not innumerable protocols.—(Loud cheers.) The
navy had succeeded—(Cheers)—that navy which had
ever been the mainstay, the sheet anchor of the country
—(Cheers)--which had supported her through many
struggles and difficulties—which had afforded the most
ample assistance and protection to our great commercial
interests, and enabled her, in short, to acquire an altitude
of power, a pinnacle of wealth, hitherto unknown in any
other part of the world.—(Cheers.) It was a great
satisfaction to him to think that that wealth and power
had been so laudably employed in supporting and main-
taining the most ancient and honourable institutions of
which any country in any age could ever boast.—
(Cheers.) The honours he now bore had been given
him by the Emperors of Russia, Austria, and of
Prussia. He believed he was the first English naval
officer who ever appeared among his fellow-citizens in
Prussian decorations.—(Cheers.) The Sultan, ho
understood, was preparing orders for the officers who
had distinguished themselves on the cost of Syria.
The Turks were certainly rather slow in their opera-
tions ; but he supposed those honours would come
at length.—(Cheers and laughter.) But this he must
say, that in consideration of the immense, quantity of
arms and ammunition and other valuable materials of
war, which should have been taken as prise by the cap-
tors, but which had hitherto remained in the hands of
Turkey, some
to find
cfii
nron emdmtm:
aonatnet
sr
h,ea
sxat i
npoGedndasihlthlieaoo
Gallant
t.lo_dpeb(de received by those
tr
right
ho
Ht
gladso eursvee
tdo
C Colleague l
he
e r,would
ad} Is
wne
aorwmw in
s
maintain the interests of the service to which he be-
longed. The Gallant Admiral sat down amid loud cheers.
The heal:hs of Sir C. F. Smith and Commodore Na-
pier having been drunk,
Commodore NAPIER returned thanks, briefly recapi-
tulating the principal events of the Syrian expedition,
and warmly eulogising the many distinguished qualities
of the Honourable Admiral tinder whom it was his
good fortune to serve, and of all the officers and men
under their command. his gallant Commander-in-
Chief had thought proper to invest him, in the absence
of Sir C. Smith, with the command of the allied troops
on the, coast of Syria. He therefore considered it to be
his duty to examine with the most earnest attention the
whole position and circumstances of that difficult
country; and they were enabled, without at all taking
to themselves, any great praise, to accomplish with a
small force the most important operations on the coast
of Syria, destroying the whole power of Ibrahim Pacha
and SolymanThPeachihah,
aahnitdanrtesstoofrintghaSt
Syria
auntty oritshal Lawful
sovereign.
uu-
doubtedly suffered under Egyptian
sway. It was now
under the Turkish dominion; he hoped the Sultan would
rulethe
Bthriattisphe opl e wit
h Governmentmo
ldv ehroa t on and
had
come t
o equity,t and th
at
the rescue hat
under
rd
Egyptiansee t theyhat
rule. were
He
bettere considered off unerMehemetTurkish
.A li than.
him with
un-
doubtedly a great man,—that was, comparing
men of eastern countries. He hoped that he also would
see the necesaity and propriety of gaining favour in the
eyes of the British Government, who were so intimately
connected with him, chiefly in reference to their East
Indian possessions. He hoped this country would do
everything in its power to encourage the Pacha in all
just and proper courses, but at the same time exacting
from him a due degree of kindness, attention, and fatherly
love for the people who had been placed under his care.
The Honourable and Gallant Officer then sat down
amidst great applause.
The LORD MAYOR then rose to propose the "Health
coofthpeLoehrdt
ttla theyorzEealel,cetln"eryagnd, paid a deservedly high
compliment
man Pirie. and integrity of Alder-
Alderman Pirie briefly acknowledged the compliment.
After the other usual toasts given at this annual dinner,
The Sheriffs having returned thanks,
The LORD MAYOR proposed the health of Mr. Walter
and the Magistrates of the county. Mr. Walter, he
said, as a Magistrate had greatly distinguished him, golf