The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-01 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY

called on the Noble Lord to fulfil the conditions of the
return as ordered to be made by the House, and to pro-
duce the correspondence of 1837 and 1838. The Noble
Lord had slipped through his fingers half a dozen times,
but he would put it to the House whether they were to
be satisfied with his refusal to comply with the order en-
tered in the journals. If the Noble Lord, however,
would consent to withdraw the imputations which he cast
upon him, he (Mr. Urquhart) would agree to press the
matter no farther.—(A laugh.)
Lord PALMERSTON said that on the occasion when
the Hon. Member gave notice of his intention to move
for the correspondence in question, he had called on him
to retract the imputation conveyed by his (Lord Pal-
merston's) having attributed the Hon. Member's hos-
tility to his recal—(A laugh)—he had refused to do so.
That was his opinion. It might be right, or it might
be wrong; but he certainly should not retract it, as he
entertained such au opinion. He had produced the cor-
respondence which he had agreed to do, and he should
only say that if the House of Commons called upon him
to produce the remainder of the letters he should do so,
but not otherwise. _ _ .

Lord MAHON rose, not to question the propriety of the
Noble Lord's refusal to produce the correspondence, but
to submit to his consideration the fact whether it was not
highly inconvenient that an order of the House to pro-
duce certain papers should be disobeyed? It was not
consistent with the dignity of the House not to insist
on complete obedience to its commands. He wished,
therefore, to know whether the Government would not
take some measure for rescinding the order on the
journals?
Lord J. RUSSELL agreed that the order ought to be
rescinded, and stated that be should take it into his con-
sideration how this could be best effe:cted.

Mr. URQUHART again urged hig question as to
what course the Government intended to take respecting
the incomplete return to which he had already called
attention?

Lord J. RUSSELL said that he should on some future
day move that the present order be rescinded, and make
a fresh motion for papers in conformity with those laid
on the table of the house.

—Mr. BAILEY said that the conduct of the Noble Lord
(Palmerston) was not candid, for be ought to have come
down and expressed his determination not to grant the
papers moved for when they were first ordered.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the terms of the mo-
tion never caught his attention. But he must say that
after the Hon. Member had expressly consented to with-
draw his motion for the correspondence respecting his
recal, it never entered his imagination that he would
move for those very papers in the manner he had done.
But, perhaps, it was his own fault that he had not
looked more narrowly into the words of the Hon. Mem-
ber's motion.

After some further conversation the subject dropped,
and the motion for adjournment was withdrawn.
RUMOURED SEIZURE OF A BRITISH VESSEL
ON THE COAST OF FRANCE.
__

Mr. WYLD asked the Noble Lord a question. He
had heard it reported that a British vessel had been
seized by the French authorities, whilst attempting to
land arms on the coast of Brittany ; and he wanted to
know whether the Noble Lord had had any account of
such an event having occurred.
Viscount PALMERSTON—I was not aware of the
report to which the Hon. Gentleman alludes. But I
shall take this opportunity of saying that, during the late
events that have taken place in Paris, reports were cir-
culated, and from quarters from which this should not
have proceeded, which suggested that the British Go-
vernment were guilty of having been concerned in these
events. lam happy to be able to take this opportunity
of stating that there could not be anything more false
and unfounded than an imputation of the kind.—(Loud
cheers.) Indeed her Majesty's Government have had
every reason to acknowledge the fair and handsome
manner in which the Provisional Government, and the
Executive Committee, subsequently established in
France, have acted in conducting the affairs of that na-
tion with this country. I must say, nothing could be
more fair and honourable—(Cheers)—and I trust that
the well-known fair and honourable principles of the
British Government, and the manner in which their
affairs are conducted, will be sufficient to prevent any
doubt that their conduct will continue to be guided by
the same honour and good faith.—(Cheers.) If, therefore,
the question of the Honourable Gentleman relates to any
suspicion that arms have been sent by the British Go-
vernment to any part of France, I assure him there is
not the slightest foundation for such a supposition.
Mr. WYLD said that the report was, not that the
vessel was a Government but a private one. It was
merely that an English vessel had been seized by the
French authorities on the coast of Brittany, in the at-
tempt to land arms, and he (Mr. Wyld) had received
more than one letter which stated that the event had hap-
pened. He was anxious to call attention to the report,
because at the present time it was highly necessary that
such reports should be contradicted if possible.
Viscount PALMERSTON—Of course if a private
undertaking be made in a private vessel to land arms, I
cannot say anything. I can only hope that the authori-
ties of the country where such attempt has been made
will deal with such an adventurer as the laws of the
country may justity.—(Hear, hear.)
The subject then dropped.
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

Mr. HUNIE begged to ask the Right Hon. Baronet
the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Govern-
ment had taken any steps to carry into effect the resolu-
tion come to on a former evening respecting the mode of
keeping the public accounts ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would reply to the question on Monday.
Mr. ANSTEY begged to assure the Right Hon.
Baronet the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the ob-
servations which he made on the preceding evening rela-
tive to the Irish deputation on the rum duties, had been
misrepresented in several of the papers.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was
quite satisfied that the Hon. Member had not made the
observations imputed to him.

other markets of the world, gave them a sum of not
less than thirty millions sterling in addition
to the twenty millions sterling granted in
1834. If this were true, he should like to
know whether Parliament owed any thing to the colo-
nies, or whether all was not due to the people of this
country, who bad been grievously oppressed by the mo-
nopoly which was put an end to by the Bill of 1846.
The Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, seemed to con-
tend that it was the duty of Parliament to make the
production of sugar in the British West Indies a profit-
able occupation. Suppose they took that for granted,
was the sugar trade the only trade requiring assistance?
—(Hear, hear.) He could take the Noble Lord round
all the staple trades of this country, and show him
that during last year not one had been carried on at a
profit.—(Hear, hear.) There was not one of them
which could point to twenty years of monopoly, with a
profit of fifty per cent. How was it in other parts of
the world ? In India the ryot had no protection in
the cultivation of his cotton, nor had the Australian any
for his wool. Did the Noble Lord know that the price
of that article had fallen from ls. 91 to ls. the pound?
Why, Parliament could do nothing else, if it were to
entertain such questions as these.—(Hear, hear.) This
heavily taxed country was now called upon to give
assistance to the colonies, and at such a time it would be a
proper subject of inquiry to ask whether the colonists
had done their duty. He had had a good deal of con-
versation lately with gentlemen from Guiana, Trinidad,
and Jamaica, who told him that in Guiana such a thing
as a plough was unknown, there was no drainage, and,
in point of fact, everything was done in the rudest
possible manner. From Trinidad he had the most ex-
press information that sometimes hogsheads of sugar
were kept from the beach because the roads were im-
passable, although only for a distance of five miles.—
(Hear, hear.) In fact, he was informed that, with the
finest soil and climate in the world, Trinidad was almost
wholly without roads.—(Hear, hear,) Then, in Ja-
maica: had the planters constructed the Jamaica Rail-
way?—(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, had it not been
begun and finished with funds supplied by men who re-
pudiated protection altogether, ?—( Hear, hear.) , He now
came to their trade regulations, and being in trade him
self, he could speak with some confidence on this point
What were the trade arrangements in the colonies? In
the first place, the great majority of the estates were
admitted to be in the hands of mortgagees.—(No, no.)
It was a fact, and had been acknowledged.—(Hear,
hear.) What was the course with an estate which was
in the hands of mortgagees? The nominal owner had
no control; the mortgagee was the real owner, and what
the British Parliament was now asked to do, was to pay
off the mortgages, and allow the planter to work as if
he had never mortgaged.—(Hear, hear.) How could
business so carried on be profitable? The mortgagee
residing in England took care that the produce came
over to him in his ships, making such charges for freight,
brokerage, and commission, as he.thought proper. Be-
' sides, everything required in the shape of stores, or ma-
chinery, went through his hands, and every one could
guess the terms on which such transactions were con-
ducted.—(Hear.) It had been complained that the West
Indies had no trade except with this country, the fact
being that they could not send to America, because the
mortgagees insisted on the produce coming to England.
Another evil attending this was, that the American ships
which brought provisions, not being able to get return
cargoes, took away nearly all the specie-of the islands,
and paid it away in Cuba tor cargoes of slave-grown
sugar.—(Hear, her.) On the subject of the impediments
which stood in the way of colonial success in trade, he
held in his hand a letter which be had received from a
Member of the Jamaica House of Assembly, and which
he would take leave to read to the House. The Hon.
Member proceeded to read the letter, the purport of which
was that the West Indians could not prosper until re-
lieved from the exactions of absentee mortgagees. That
in addition to other means by which they were plundered,
the mortgagee was at the same time a shipowner, and sent
out his ship to his planting attorney, with positive
orders to fill it from certain estates indicated. The attor-
ney then wrote to the overseers, who, perhaps, answered
that the canes were not ripe—in fact, that the number
which would make 100 hhds, of ripe would only make
60 at that moment. The attorney, however, fearing a
a supersedeas, was imperative, and canes were frequently
cut at eleven months, when at least fifteen would be ne-
cessary to ripen them properly. The writer stated that
he had frequently followed the sugar to the wharf, and
had seen the molasses dripping from the casks. Now,
on this alone, considering that the profit on rum as com-
pared with sugar was as one to two, the loss must be
enormous.—(Hear, hear.) The writer continued to
state that he had offered himself to ship sugars at
cheaper rates, but the general answer of the planter
was, that he must ship in the vessels of his mortgagee.
Indeed, sugar might be seen lying in tho wharfs for
months together, and in one case a lot had lain for
five months to be shipped at last at a freight of ss.
per cwt., while several ships had come and gone
which would have taken them at 4..—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Bright) considered it would be a great blessing
if such burdens were removed, instead of proposing to
re-enact protective duties and increase the taxes on the
British people.—(Hear, hear.) He now came to a point
which had been alluded to by the Right Hon. Member
for Tamworth—he meant the extraordinary expenses of
the colonies. There was no doubt but that the colonists
had great and just cause of complaint on that score.—
(Hear, hear.) His correspondent before quoted informed
him that one great grievance of the colonists was the
enormous amount of taxation. Any memorial passed
by the House of Assembly in the direction of reform in
the expenditure was sure to be rej• cted by the Council,
the members of which, with one solitary exception, wer,
placemen. There was the Lord Bishop, with 3,000/. a
year ; the Chief Justice, 3,0001. ; the General com-
manding, 4,0001 ; and the Vicr-Chancellor, 2,500/. ;
wish several others of lesser amounts. Besides ties
there was a Council iund s f 6.000/., for the expendi
ture of which the Council invariably refused to account.
Besides all this, the Governor (Sir Charles Grey) had
7,000/. a year, and the secretary 1,8001. He maintain d
that such u scale of expenditure was an intolerable
grievance on the colonists.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord the Member fur Lynn bad alleged that in conse-
quence of the reduction in the price of sugar several
large West India houses had fallen. Why, they were
insolvent before. They had departed altogether from
the regular course of trade, and the consequence was that
their estates would now pay only three or four shillings
in the pound. Was it to support houses of that descrip-
tion that Parliament was about so largely to increase the
taxation of the country?—(Hear, hear.) He was sorry
that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government
had again raised the much-vexed question of pro-
tection. He should recollect that in 1841 his Govern
went was broken up on that question, and that in
1846 that of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite
met a similar fate. Even
,so lately as that morning
the present cabinet of the Noble" Lord was in articulo
mortis, and was only saved by the extreme unction of
fifteen votes, the givers of which differed entirely from
the Noble Lord on the principle of the question.—
(Hear, arid laughter.) The fact was, and he deeply re-
greted it, that this discussion had been carried on with-
out any reference to the interests of the people of this
country. The Noble Lord had raised the question of
protection again after he had himself buried it. If he
had been the Noble Lord he would have demanded the
Bill of 1846 to the last on its results, for never had be-
neficial results flowed more rapidly than upon the pass-
ing of the Bill of 1846.—(Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—I stated that.

Mr. BRIGHT—The result had been equally favour-
able as regarded consumption and revenue. He
would take three periods of eight months each; one
before and the other two after the passing of the
Bill of 1846. The whole consumption was—la the
first eight months, 3,550,000 cwt.; in the second
eight months, 4,349,000 cwt.; in the third eight months,
4,235,000 cwt. Showing an increase of the second
period over the first of 795,000 cwts., and of the third
over the first of 680,000 wts. With regard to revenue,
equally favourable results had accrued. The amount of
revenue received was—ln the first eight months,
2,516,0001.; iu the second eight months, 3,405,0001.; in
the third eight months, 3,021,0001. So that the revenue
gained nearly a million.—(Hear, hear.) He disapproved
of the proposal for immigration, as calculated to cheapen
labour unduly as against the coloured population of the
West Indies, and to demoralise them by introducing
amongst them the vices of the African tribes. There
was another point in considering this part of the ques-
tion which must not be lost sight of. More than one-
half of the sugar imported was not the produce of those
colonies where there was a deficiency of labour. From
Barbadoes, the Mauritius, and the East Indies, where
labour was abundant, we imported 163,000 tons,
leaving only 137,000 as coming from those West
India colonies which were complaining of want of
labour. Yet by the proposition of the Government
this amount of protection was to be given not only to
those colonies where there was an insufficient supply
of labour and consequent distress, but to those also
where labour was plentiful, and where there was no
necessity for the protection. Why, was ever a more
monstrous proposition put forward ? It was in effect
that because one man alleged that there was a debt due
to him, therefore not only should he be paid, but that
compensation should be awarded to all who are related
to him.—(Hear.) If any thing were due to the West
India colonies, let them send in their account of what
there was to pay, and let it be paid and done with ;
but let not this country be called upon to pay not only
those who cohsidered they had claims against us, but
those who had no claims whatever.—(An Hon. Member:
" You would never get a receipt in full.") He agreed
with his Hon. Friend that the West India body would
never give a receipt in full. They were like Oliver
Twist, always asking for ",more, more." And for the
concession which was now about to be made would here-
after be made the ground for new demands. It would be
urged hereafter—" You admitted by your measure of
1848 . that the settlement of 1846 was no settle-
ment, there is still something more due to us,"—
and they would continue to make new claims
until they were in a state of prosperity, which
under the protective system they would mever be.
—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member for West-
bury bad put forward a theory, or rather two theories—
one in the House and the other out of doors—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh)—the one in the House being that full
compensation would be obtained for any increase in
price by the fall of duty to 10s. a cwt. He admitted
that as a general rule low duties were advantageous to
the revenue to a certain extent, and to the consumer
altogether ; but out of doors the Honourable Gentleman
had another theory, which was that the highest duty
regulated the price, and that the price regulated the con-
sumption.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Wilson.) But by
the proposition of the Government it would not be until
the year 1852 that the consumer would be in any better
position, for any reduction of the duty on colonial sugar
could not have the effect, according to the Hon. Mem-
ber's own theory that the highest duty regulated price,
until the lowest duty on foreign sugar came into opera-
tion.—(Hear.) But again, as to any advantage result-
ing to the consumer as accompanying this proposition, it