The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-18 00:00:00

LONDON AND DUBLIN BANK.

The general meeting of the Company ofihie Bank was held yesterday,
at two o'clock, at the London Tavern, instead of at the offices of the
Company in Piccadilly, as first advertised, it having been discovered
that the meeting, if held at the latter place, would be illegal. Sir
Ralph Howard, Bart., M.P., in the chair.
The advertisement convening the meeting having been read,
The CHAIRMAN called on the Secretary to read the report, by
which it appears that the expectation of increased profits which
were held out have been fully realised, the advantage being double
what was expected. The amount of the credit belonging to the
shareholders is 58,9001., and the securities and deposits
owing to the public is 166,4951., the benefits being
4,1301. 18s. 6d. The amount of assets from private
capital ,:is 30,196/. as. 4d., and in Government Securities
36,7861. 19s. Id.; the whole moan' of the capital tieing 140.7451.
15s. 11d. The gross amount of pr, fits have been 13,3851. 13s. id.,
di coding from which the expenses, the net pi oflt was
left which had just been stated. Dining the year 1845 a
dirdend of 4 per cent. had been decl,r, d; making a
sum of 1,0,5/. lie. 10d., a,.d ~howing a total of 3,096 i. 7s. 191.
paid prier to the time at which this statement was made. During
the past year the bank and its branches had been generally profitable,
with the exception of the establishment in Dublin, in which there
had bees a deficiency. But it was hoped that this defect would
be remedied by the exertions of Mr. Perret, the Secretary, who, en-
jeying the full confidence of the shareholders, had been tipped, ted
inspector of the Company's concerns. New branches have been es
tablishud at Athey and Kinsale, and there was every prospect of fit-
ture improvement.
The CHAIRMAN, in putting the adoption of the report to the meet-
ing, said that the very satisfactory report which bad just been made,
precluded the necessity of any observations from him, but there was
one point to which he ought to refer - that was the payment of the di-
rectors. Hitherto the directors had refrained from asking for any
remuneration for their services, and were still ready to defer that
remuneration to a iuture period, but he thought it had now become
incumbent on the shareholders to make that office something
like a return for the efforts of the directors. To do this
it weuld be requisite to set aside a sum, say 5001. a year, for the
directors, whose number they might restrict to five or six. There
was another point to which he would refer, and that was the Dublin
branch. They there obtained only the refuse of the business, and
the establishment in Dublin might be done away with, but this was
a matter for consideration, and with this suggestion he would move
the adoption of the report.
Colonel ACTON, M.P., seconded the adoption of the report, and in
doing so he thought that it was worth while to notice the advantages
of the management residing in London.
Mr. FARRELL, an auctioneer in Dublin, wished to suggest, before
the adoption of the report, that a charge should be made so as to pro-
vide a directory in Dublin, which he was convinced would be of
great advantage to the company, and he thought that tour gentlemen
ought to be appointed in addition to 31r. Guineas and the other
gentleman already in ettice there. To give his objection a sub-
stantive form he would put it in the shape of an amendment.
air. OMANNY, before Mr. Farrell's amendment was put, thought
that an observation was riecessary from the directors. In making
one of those observations, he had to murk that it was very singular
that Mr. Farrell should make this objection, when only three years
ago he had signed the deed of settlers nt, which expressly guaranteed
the direction being in London. The business of the bank had been
prudently and carefully arranged, and there was every advantage to
be derived from the direction being here, and a very good business
might be done in London. The only loss that had been incurred
had been suffered in the Dublin branch, at d there was therefore
no necessity for the change.

Captain Cox, although he did agree with some of the observations
of Mr. Farrell, yet he could not assent to such an al eration of the
constitution as that which would ensue by the appointment of a
Dublin directory.

Mr. FARRELL suggested that them should he an increase in the
directory, so as to give a preponderance to Irishmen in the direction
of this hank.

Mr. GutNzse thought there was a great difference between this
bank and the Bank of Ireland and the Provincial Bank, for they
were banks of issue, which this was not. These banks had been
highly valuable in eliciting the resources of the country, and in this,
as an Irishman, he rejoiced. But the cases were differeet, and he
thought, that although the gentlemen in the London directory were
of the highest respectability and ability—no men more 80 —y e t he
thought that a benefit would be derived by increasing the directory
in Dublin. He did not wish to d• away with the London directory—
far tram it ; but an increase might be made in the Dublin manage-
ment, and he thought it advisable that the directors here should meet
in private, and calmly and dispassionately consider what would be
the results of such a change. He kn w that if this opening were
made he was aware that certain men of influ nce and property would
be ready to render their assistance and give an impulse to the con-
cerns which was likely to be of great service. But he was anxious
that no difference should be made, and he would therefore suggest
that Mr. Farrell should withdraw his motion.
A conversation then ensued, in which Mr. Guinan. the Chairman,
Col Acton, Capt. Cox, and Mr. Farrell took part, in which it was
stated that an apprehension that the deed •f settlement prevented
the giving of such a guarantee, and during which it was asserted by
Mr. Farrell that the last thing he desired was a dissociation from the
London board, but he did wish to have the whole of the bill depart-
ment left to the Dublin directors. During this conversation, also, it
was stated by Mr. Humphreys, one of the directors, that the only
losses which had been incurred on bills, was suffered from the bills
discounted by the Dublin directors.
Mr. F. C. Baowri said that he was the oldest director present. He
had been present from the very first meeting, at which Lord Moun t-
cashell presided, and he could say that the very principle and founda-
tion on which the Bank was founded, was that of having the directors
in London.

Mr. FARRELL read a set of resolutions which had been passed at
a private meeting of the skareholders iu Ireland, which went to ex-
press a desire on their part to make the chief directory in Ireland.
lie had*te power, from the proxies which he held, of carrying his
quastioyet out of respect to Mr. Guineas, if he could obtain any
assurance from the directors on the point which he pressed on their
attention, he would withdraw his amendment.

Atter come further observations from Mr. Drown, Mr. Farrell,
Captain Cox, Mr. Farrar, and the solicitor of the Company, the
amendment wee withdrawn, and the report adopted and ordered to
be printed.

A dividend of 4 per cent. ner annum for the half-year ending De.
cember 1, 1845, was then declared, and the surplus oraered to be car.
ried to the capital of the bank.

Thanks were then voted to the auditors, the directors, the secre-
tary, Jlr. Perrett, and the chairman, and the meeting, atter Sit K.
Howard had returned thanks, was dissolved, It being understood
that the usual notice of a meeting of directors should be waived in
order to meet the convenience of the gentlemen who had come over
from Ireland, and that a Board should be held this day to discuss
the matters which bad been mooted at the meeting yesterday.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
tIOUSE OF LORDS, March 17.
OREGON TERRITORY QUESTION.

The Earl of CLARENDON, in pursuance of the motion
of which he had given no:lee, begged to move for the produc-
tion of such correspondence as might have taken place between
the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs and the Minis-
ter for Washington as his Noble Friend might net think incon-
sistent with his public duty to lay upon their Lordship" table.
He trusted that it would be unnecessary for him to assure their
Lordships that it was the furthest from his intention to wish to
embarrass the Government or to press for any premature dis-
closures of any information which might prove injurious to the
country. When they considered the magnitude of the interests
involved in the solution, whether by peace or by war,
of the quer ion now at issue between this country
and the United States, and the deep anxiety with which In-
telligence was looked for, and the influence which it exercised
upon the commercial and financial affairs of this country, he
thought that the people should not be altogether dependent
upon American newspapers for such information ; with
reference to the actual state of affairs, and tio,
transactions of the Gove:nntent for many weeks, and almost
ithout interruption, the quest ori has been di-bated in Con-
gress, while, although Parliament has been netting now for
nearly two months, no allusion had been maize to it,
except by two Noble Lords in that Henze, one
of whom be regretted to say was not present.
He thought such had been well intended ; and, moreover,'

e _
thought that it exhibited a prudent determination on the hart
of both Houses of Parliateent to leave the Government scy:
fettered in its action, by not interfering in matters for whus't
Parliament could not be responsible.--(Hear. ) He tholltrs',,
the course pursued had been %Nell understood and apprecia
though abroad, without doors, it was liable to raiscenstructiont
and had been so misconstrued; and therefore it should be their
duty to guard against the notion that se indifferent were the/
that they would submit to peace and concession, thoughl.
dishonourable terms.—(Hear, hear.) If they bore in sit
that the language of the American Goiernment was Peen
and that the information which reached them was of the sett%
character; yet they would not be doing their duty if they Vii;
not instantly proceed to the consideration of the question. "(I
therefore thought the time was come when his Noble Friq_
might, without indiscretion, lay on the table of that House toe
correspondence that had taken place, or else give such informs'
tion as would lead to the quieting of the public mind. Thc?;
bad learned from the newspapers that all negotiation had ceased
some time since. Now he believed that the British interest'
could not be confided to a Ministry more competent than'
present, nor would he doubt heirt reasons for instructingb;
Pakeoham to renew the negoLatons; but he should say _"t
could not agree in the policy of such. They had proved, the
however confident they were in their claims, yet so littler;
sinus were they of obstinately adhering to su•-h that theyo
anxious of submitting their case to a disinterested tribunal so
•
abide the result.—( Hear.) They cid so beesuse the people e;
England would not consent to a war until they were satisielso
that such was inevitable.—( Hear, hear.) .The Peq
of England would not endure the disastrous osse;
quences of a contest so unnatural and unnecesslirt,
until they are convinced that their exists a determivation
injure and insult us on the part of the United States. —t
hsar. ) Then, indeed, her Nlajests's Government might
surely reckon on the cordial support of all persons and elsS
—( Hear, hear.) But that there should be such des
termination appeared to him to be little less than
moral impossibility. For in the annals of hist%l
there could not be found a record of any two nations, hceu-t.
together by the stt iciest ties of mutual interest, being so Id
ishly wicked and wanton as to plunge themselves in war,
to the peremptory refusal of the one to accept of any ter° id
any arbitration for the fee simple possession of an unoceeP4
territory, the advantages to be derived from which ec''th
not compensate fcr the loss occasioned by one single ruc.nio;
True it was they had been rudely assailed, hut the disposit of
which did exist to insult was mainly owing to the system
electioneering which prevailed in the United States, for w sea
some allowance, he considered, ought to be made. Ys,
that that class faithfully represented the opinions of the,!4
lightened majority, he could by no means allow, espect7,
in a country where statesmen were to be found se 0
lightened as any in the worlch—(Hear)—and where moms,
and religion exercised their influence over the minds of rti
community, and moreover at a time when they are abetla`b,
reap the most beneficial effeeis- from the adoption of one 0t
_4
most enlightened systems of commercial onlii7 ever proper„,
by a Legislature. The Noble Lord concluded by Molini7
he production of the con e-pondence.
Lord ABERDEEN, who spoke in a very low tone of "Le°
said, I consider the motion just made by the Noble Lard rsttli
unusual, in consequence of the peculiar position in which, tes
country is placed in reference to the subject 01 of
correspondence. and felt certain that his sense bs
public duty, his intimate knowledge of the course told
pursued in public negociatiuns, would have Prelehiss
him from adding anything io the embarrassments with nott
this question is already invested. And I should also ss° do
hie own teeling should have prevented him from making itosl
subject of any remark. I think, however, the desire exPres•
by the Noble Lord is one perfectly natural and j
fectly reasonable. I think when we receive itlib
telligence of interest and importance connected
this question from the other side of the Mild
it is perfectly natural that your Lordships and the 101'0
this country should desire authentic information on theory
jest, accompanied by such remarks as her Majesty's Ocefeei
ment might think proper and advisable. I have, slier ear
no valid reason to object to the production of this comesrost
deuce, especially as the subject was pretty well known top
Lordships. I must however suppress a large portion Of
has taken place between her Majesty's Government net
Ministers of Washington, as I consider, in the first pleces'rr
it is quite unusual in a neeotiation of such magnitude :t,"010
duce an account to Parliament on the particular 0'4,0
which we stand with reference to it. It is quite truehot
I Government of the United States have acted differeeti,',oo
I their position is very different from oars. The Legs see
called upon the President to take a fixed course upon th'iplyil4
time, and hat was therefore under the necessity of c°lll,lol
with this demand. But on this point I cannot ezreg tbe
opinion. Indeed, I may say that at the present sitelneooo
expression of any opinion would be anything but advent', de
to the settlement of the dispute. Another reason is tet
production of those papers would materially add to t,.'10002,
culties of terminating the dispute. I must also, in
admit that the aspect of the negotiation, as it wows' ;00r
from. the papers which had been produced by the Ge,ssrcite
of the Unite° Stites, might have a very d.ferent etre' wed
the result of the negotiation than individuals in this ccboitil
would anticipate. Under these circumstances, I will Is
tote
to the House whether it will be advisable to lay these cc, del
' nications before the Louse. Certainly the Governuteelit.
no desire to keep these papers back on their own acc.; so V
am the more desirous to retrain from placing these porifeje,
fore the House, because I believe, and I think every W3lO
diced person would conceive, that when the protest to erti:il
allude has been laid before the American Goveratnes4t
there will be no reasonable cause to doubt that this 10,4 tlls
be brought to an amicable conclusion. I am quite treoor
that is the unfeigned desire of the Governments of hot!
tries, and I hope that the Noble Lord will not thins
courteous if I continue to decline to produce the pePec:,str,,
he desires in the present aspect of affairs. No one is t
himself, I feel assured, would regret any impechoeu /s
,',
thrown in the way of an adjudication whichmayirbslo:,ll
hostile movements. Ido not hesitate to affirm Ott t;op,
war to be the greatest calamity that can befal a ns
the commencement of it, without sufficient groun.oo,,
greatest clime a nation can commit. In the obei%ile
uc h a calamity I am anxious to be the instrument, sip
`,l
the fulfilment of my duty, I feel it necessary weal'
House for its confidence, 1 am justified by the coneic‘ tet„'
the House will believe that I should accede to no settles'
this dispute which is not consistent with national bonetrjold
calling for that confidence, and for the support of the its
at large, I would assure the House that my firm insect°,
that the dispute will be settled by a lair, conciliatorYeole:
rate, and just arrangement. The conduct of a grest
like this must be firm, conciliatory, and just, without enfil
five of honour or the real interests of the country'
hear.) It is possible that all these efforts may pro" ups
lug, and in that case I shall endeavour to secure ate 04
nance and support of not only your Lordships, but tuesisilir
bation of every State in Europe, and throughout the ;05916
world. The Noble Lord (Lord Clarendon) must l'lssesos
me to go further at present, and I will conclude by ri7,000,
emphatically what her Majesty was most graciously P00111,,,e
say in the speech from the throne—that no effort !_im,
spared, consistent with the national honour tofensr`
' question to an early and peaceable termination.-4" W;ji
Lord BROUGHAM said he wished to refer t° sa
which he had received from his Friend, Mr. Everett, r fei"
recently so admirably fulfilled his duties as Minis°. to
United States in this country. It was in referensiostito,
' statement that he had purchased a globe on which ad sills,sl
drawn favourable to the United States of America s:hl rid
•to the claims of this country. That globe it seentel, cots
appealed to iu America as a proof coming from thed
in favour of the United States' claims. He begg,.„ ref )1
state that this was oo wonder, seeing that the gl°'""tisterop
to had been altered by the tradesman who made it' Ail,
order was given as a compliment to his customer'', NS de
hear, and a laugh.) But he (Lord Brougham) was Drill*
say that Mr. Everett bad no hand in the matter, (4;1011
the •' pious fraud," which had been practised ;
Everett any communication with the globs Tbii
order had been given by another party cosi:1);
an explanation which he (Lord Brougham) etar
right to take the present opportunity Noble pfd
And, continued the Noble Lord. I agree with the
..i,bef,"
on this important subject. I join my heaerk:teesfeb
theirs, and express my confident hope that all t" ",ii less ,t 0
tnts, painful and tedious though they now are, w •
happy and lasting peace ; and I rest also my full e°°oo7:"
the Noble Lord opposite, and in her MajestY's Gs galore"
that should, unhappily for us and for America, an",,i-peetl,
for humanity at large, their wise and, I hope, jest —O,Ol
be frustrated, that all mankind will find to wholtt bh
should be imputed, aid that that blame does not "ill Polo
and, moreover, that although the calamity of wsr,,,[tes
at
be looked on by all the subjeets of the Crown wi'",boool
aversion, it will be looked upon by no one with aPP"-
alarm. 09
Lord ASHBURTON said it might probabli ,7000- toss
that on this question he should offer a few obseres"-eden
this negotiation would be conducted with all the Plitessi;ell
naturally required in a matter of thisimpeetancebehtleeee°olo/
he could not conceal from himself that, although in,thektics.se
war, the honour of the country would remain tuttarn"„ t oew tr
it would be one of the most frightful calamities tbfoitiond
fal them if two countries, in that high state of civ'lipvats
distinguished England and America, were to "400 hot
would ; and he could not avoid expressing his °,,P the' iolss
would be nothing short of madness if they vre'''skiof be"
vulva themselves fur what was, comearatively postilisip
very trifling matter. He trusted that whatever pols%,
feeling induced by such a question in countries r,.trio°
verned as these were. the goat sense of both o'_",-,1001,
prevent such a calamity. He considered that thisti's, 0 6
one of two countries having undefined rights, sna d beesbito
was how those claims could be settled in a fair 14,1$
manner. That was what Europe and the worl°,%itoklo
expect from two nations holding such prominen; red
this country and the Meted Sates. He conotet, ploo,l,lOrs,
question could not be left in safer hands than ti,orsh,
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. From hisgZstest'selt#
burton's) experience of the people of the United '-'o"pors
to
led to believe that they might easily be prevailedsdee St
to a fair and honourable adjustment of the quests
The motion was then agreed to.
RAILWAYS. ote '"
,0"(
Lord AIONTEAGLE presented a petition _eest
jectors of the Irish Great Western and Midland tr
lines, complaining of breach of agreements
Ordered to lie on the table. of tb‘t
Lord FORESTER wished to call theattentitre
of sitioo;
to the incredible short time in which a first eilos tedrstdi,
had been rigged and got ready for sea. It we'A searcsse edlss,"itro,
ceived that a ship with nothing but her loses. mast
_7,oss
could be rigged, and large blocks thremn over briffoloo4
in the space of two days and a hart, and brengil 0.136
mouth, to anchor at Spithead tan the third clsPes, Isbsod
the attention of the House tea these circumstancitol "
to show that their skill had not been underll the 801
public ; and if there was rsey chance of diminitlibil
of war, it would be by showing to the nation, , pOr
seamen were capable of performing. ,00 °f
Lord CLANRICARDE objected to the '
money such experiments would occasion. otrliore'
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that the store_ t
in readiness in the arsenal, and consequently it Ws'
tool
in
of expense. o``,Dird
Lord FORESTER said that his only object f.ord
this subject was to call the attention of their :tee ?jet'
what he considered a most extraordinary teat oßeaste
the captain, officers, and seamen of the Rodney and
The subject then dropped.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

110 USE OF C(1,11,110:1' S. Mar°4l7.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE' iglii°lser
Mr. A GLION BY hoped the House would 9,1,1°' Aiel°:,;
a few words in regard to the p It. lingo °' Pio°,
that House who had been misr-ee,r%nnateteleby a
which was a breach of tle prilvrielegees of that House I,onbi
Atoning Chronicle of Sar urday 's date he ( AD. 11, ,go. Mr:tio4
made to ,ay that with respeet to the motion of the Jludej 01
for Finsbury (Mr. Duncombe ), tie was sure it worw bef ,51,6
and that no one cared whether it was or not. cou'so",
wish to cast any censure on the reporters, for
(,o'o
understand the great difficulty they had to contod,.., te tf;
their poiiitiun in the House, but he thought it r
e
Honourable Alenaher fir Finsbury to nlB/,
Planation, and state what he really had 0' • 910 01,
stated was, that the Honourable Member hi+ °°00.0,0,,
his subject th ,t it was very didicult to Inslo 14,04 P
the Hon. Alumber meant. tie could assure th,oud tord'o
Alernher that he neter meant to lave it 01 ,tier.' ,roos
was not worthy of being hear:lJ he ',add riot
ability with which he always conducted hit; sußl.,d tor
that House had gained for him bestatty.itioa 1"

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r
Lmn the o, THE TARIFF. !to abolish this very large amount of revenue, which was larger
Ile,
eeeer, of the day that the House should go into ' than anv other sum of du y mentioned itt the schedule. One
eltis; e. „fin 1 arifi' Customs Bill heing read, • of the obis ts s iif the proposed tariff was said to be te, lecreese
be v 16RI'' N said • •t A
llotee -Teo the se ee wiser,. to say a few words to the the consumption of this Beech-, a:id net to thm:nish it. He
lit h 'lnt on question. it was in the recoilecgen of the . ciitiiii not believe that any of her Majesty's Government, or
• fee
of , the 27th January the Right Hon. Baronet at of that House vrould wish to see the consumption of spirits in.
ir.. serraiilnee elejety's Government informed the House creased in this country. If it et re desirable, it wesule not be
ils sloe enoiees were about to take place, and that. • expedient to bring such articles as brande and other spirits
sr ges were
=er set 0_ to be accompanied hy other measures : inure within the reach of the people than they wee at present.
11-; eueeiou'eotage to the country. He did not take ilt could not he done because the price would be still high, for
.one of free trade or of protection. weer' the proposed dety was put on there would still remain a
hr;4lklllheghfolraengears (lid he mean to keep them in suspense before duel of 300 per cent. Cognac brandy was the only description
IL out te fonthe House those measures which he had stated of French brandy that was brought into this country for con-
eeetesseend"O‘v , but to accompany these great commercial sumption, and could only be obtained from a few who
the meaning
how long he had learnt to attach were engaged in the Cognac trade. He would ask what good
Vitro a "'fling of the word . accompany
.the had resulted from the oqualisation of the duties on French and
IN t, 0, certa;
tiler% prinei lel measures passing their second reading, Portuguese wines Na accession of commerce had taken place,
ti, roetsuresP eof which being thereby affirmsd, before neither had thecustomsrevenuebeen increased. He wishedalways
I'll ithle uf then cennextern with them, were even laid upon to have a surplus revenue of income over the expenditure, for
he. tee House? With reference to the Drainage it was the wisest, safest, and, in the end, the most economical
''ere Rightof_ Honourable Baronet stated that his for the country. In conclusion, he would ask whether the in-
cif teo2"ree years was connected with the de. wrests of the peop,e would no: be better consulted by a par-
est ee'ee measures; whether or ne the three years tial repeal of the excise duty on soap, than by allowing the
ilea'stieret reference to that measure—whether or no the sum- emit-mous sum which was paid on French brandy to be com-
sherlitee) 474 have refeience to that measure--he (Mr. S. eletely lost. He should move that the words " spirits and
14(1) erlable not pronounce. and he complained teat he was strong eaters" he struck out.
Kee the e. to pronounce upon it.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. EWART maintained that the commerce with France
eet eininottigbt Honourable Gentleman any notion would be increased rather than diminished by the proposed re-
43tltt m.esuess or unwillingness of the agriculturists to ac- ductinn of the duty on brandy. It was a well known fact that
e thet
waseure ? Had he ape notion of the number of the French trade
.had increased since the equalisation of the
,Itiel ex,,...n re drainable? Had he any notion of the duty on wine, and it was only an act of justice that the duty
it,. die 'T. se of draining those acres—( Hear, hear) was reduced to the same amount as that paid on Portuguese
~..ed that
ee mean, as he (Mr. O'Brien) suspected, wines. He was not inclined to favour France more than Por-
ete ton
should be all hap-haeard together. They knew, tugal, but wished that British commerce should meet with every
Lestelt6rita.ut it. With reference to Ireland the Right Hon. encouragement. He trusted that this was the beginning of a
irreectireeed, that it was his intention to take the police further reduction of the duty on French articles, and he felt
wil sensed, out of the hands of the magistrates, and place it satisfied it would be met with reciprocity on the partof France.
er ep] of the executive. This was because Leland The Marquis of GRANBY said that it was of very great
0. htYlt affected by the Right Hon. Baronet's urea- importance to the welfare of the lower classes that the duty on
ctettet the Right Hon. Baronet had never given the foreign spirits should nut be diminished. He had found that
Neropre,s, of Ireland an opportunity of
toocnsidering whether crime and disease had increased in proportion to the supply
uitl'ltit liii.could be acceptable or not them. The great and consumption of strong liquors. He had a paper in his
tileseele centralization of -the police force was connected hand showing the great increase of crime, but he would not
e teeeo"t'alieation of schoolmasters and the auditors of trouble the House with reaeing it further than to state that
Ores 'lt', It was not his (51r. O'Brien's) fault that those the document showed that in Scotland seven-eigths of the
1114 en were brought forward as isolated measures. The crimes that were there committed originated entirely from
tic'
orb• Gentleman had presented them all to the house the abuse of spirits. If that statement was true, and he had
ce it; e:tee great scheme, and he (Mr. O'Brien) insisted no reason to doubt its If
he really was at a loss to know
ofi'er of to_ 1 a question of party, or of politics, but as a what argument could avail in support of the proposed reduction
le Ito eeen:`,"ght-iorward business, that they should have a of the duty on
foreignf spts. fhe Noble Lord then quoted
Nillight flitter them altogether. He was sorry not to see some extracts r. M'Culloch's work to show the inex.
epied en• Gentleman in his place, and he should have pediency of redacting the duty on foreign spirits. Now he did
14, 'at to his remarks in consequence, but that he believed hope that they would not pass the reduction of duty. For
'etre eiee legitimate time for them was on the order ot himself he opposed it, because he believed that the question of
iecteoreotreet whether the Right Hon. Gentleman was in his protection in this instance must take higher ground, and the
NI tee retie thought Hon. Gentlemen, boih on the other ease he argued as one involving riot only protection to British
Vele oi`?'"se, and on the Ministerial side, had a right to industry, but of protection to the well-being and happiness of
%t4ttlele
tlhe course the Right Hon. Gentleman had adopted the British station. He did hope that Gentlemen opposite
yresetireeeY were charged with delay leg the progress o. would throw off the chains by which they had bound them-
k elle), es they had a perfect right to complain that the selves to her Majesty's Government; and he did still more
iol'o e,;,Buaronet had committed a double error in reference hope on this occasion that humanity and reeson would triumph
t) had" tof these measures: He (the Right Hon. over a most peruirous and unnatural coalition. . . .
etl-eses ti attempted to expedite the progress of these Mr. CA RD et h.LL observed he would he quite willing to
le'se in r°ugh the House by joining them with the cry of meet the Honourable Gentleman on the question of revenue,
Est tee relatiti. —( Protectionist the ts.) He made them and he was happy to as,ree with the statement, that in the
ettel ti!ereece to temporary pressure. And he had also com- arithmetic of the revenue department, two and two would by no
Zit el:" ether error in practical), dissevering them fron. tneaes make four, for they could never double the produce in
jl/4s), te'ores which, by his own confession, would have a the Exceequer by doubling the duty ; however, it by no means
leithoet°, alleviate and diminish the difficulties to which he followed that if they diminished the duty they would diminish
selife o`e expose the agricultural interest.—( Hear, hear. 'i the produee to the Exchequer. They had plenty of historical
Oily, his did not pat the question on the ground of proof of the truth of the latter assertion, and, as he would not
k„„, ts connexion, nor political friendships—which weary the House by entering into a leegthened detailed state-
le„ tljew no more—but he would persist in putting the neat of them, he would only refer them to the report of the
41. her' ere the Chancellor of the Exchequer or some other Commission appointed to examine into the excise duties.
age
es the Government then present would' no doubt be After a few words from Mr. KNIGHT,
it Prot,wo! it. He would ask in what manner the Govern- The House divided, when there appeared
tZst aeseliedzi to conduct the public business during the For retaining the item
kit of fe ?He wished to know whether they intended For the amendment 35
kit of shard their new measures relating to the improve- Majority —
"et have land before Easter, so that the agriculturist., The several items from brandy down to clover were then
re those au opportunity of expressing their final opinions Agreed to
le lietiteZeasures which would expose them to the threatened On the latter article being proposed,
iNlitlit H,. He might repeat that he was sorry to see that Mr. ALLIX asked the Right Hon. Baronet not to take the
levees "e• Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Govern- euty of 10s. off clover. He instanced a case where the con-
Ot. "t in his place—( Hear, hear)—but of course any tinuance of the protection would be of great use to the la-
tioptlati °t the Government would be able to answer the heurers, and proceeded to ask if it was wished to drive away
freer in- telt he had put, and if they did not choose to all the gentry of the country from their paternal mansions ?
l'i%jotir:ttbe injury would not fail upon the shoulders of the He would not divide the House upon it, as the Right Hon.
elit:irl •eet ,I;arty, but upon themselves in the opinion of ever) Gentleman appeared to be all pewerful, but in justice to hie
ke OH Pe',,,,elient man.—( Hear, hear.) own feelings, he thought it necessary to protest against the
4nt ei '''''IOELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that in reduction.
cerehiace he must beg to apologise to the House for the ab- Sir -R. PEEL gave the Hon. Gentleman credit for sin-
iiresele a' Right Hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury. cerity in holding the opinions which he did, but he thought
elte4d4ssure the House, he believed, from the constancy of he carried his attachment to protection on clover a little tor,
leN h.lee—( Loud and repeated chearirig)—and his Hon. tar, when he stated that the reduction Vit would drive the
Otts4d; believed, would be inclined to give him credit for gentry of the country from their paternal mansions.—(Great
li.tmthee reenothing but public duty could prevent him fr,m laughter.) That, he thought, was carrying protection a little
teetteen his place.—( Hear, hear.) He (the Chancellor too far.—(Continued laughter.) So far, however, from this
Cal tk_htquee) certainly wished that his Hon. Friend had. reduction being injurious to farmers, he considered that this
„W iellethinterval of seven weeks, which he stated had day of 75,000/. was one of the burdens on agriculture. No-
e, 'aliens e Progress of this measure, availed himself of the thing would be more beneficial to farmers than increasing
lOteseot 'which he had just made, when his Hon. Friend their facilities fur procuring clover seed, and no duty tha'
Ithleaitele ' end when he could have gone into detail as to could be remitted would be so beneficial to the 50/. tenants.
lee neje 4 which the public business was brought forward. l'his was one of the ciearest cases where the interests of agri-
ice, hi,g,f,....rd the measures which were now before the eulture would he benefited.
reee Mee 'gilt Hon. Friend had entered into considerable
Mr. ALLIX explained. He assured the Right Hon. Baronet
lta-r of th "'Peet to those measures ; and if he (the Chan he did not say that the reduction of the duty on clover, but
epedistre4aehequer) remembered right, in the course of the measures of her Majesty's Government would drive away
et :Isedek
ewhich had taken place, great anxiety had been the gentry fror.n their paternal mansions.
„, atail of ‘lifie part of Hon. Members to have a knowledge of The resoluteon was then agreed to•
eelft'f tie, (logo Bills which had been proposed for the settle- The next item proposed was the reduction in oxen, cows,
it b I'l. iti estion. The object of the Bill referred to by sheep, &c.
ee eheved
fekrabers had been fully laid before the House • and Mr. W. MILES said that since 1842, when the alteration
444 0 the hat I copy of it was in the hands of every It'lem- took place, the importation into this country of bullocks. cows,
k the ,_.ousle. With respect to the drainage of land sheep, &c., had greatly increased. If this importation went on
ri
hod elprovement of highways, very great pro- in the same ratio. there would be no chance for the English
Ilse the been made in the drafts of those Bills. grazier in competition with the foreigner. The duty at pre-
e tee__ Government would he in a better position, by the -ent on oxen was IL, on cows 155., tin calves 10s., on sheep
,erequeisosdutee of Supply, to state what sum of money would 35., on lambs 25.. on pigs Sr., &c., and notwithstanding these
Ziet o'fr
officers
the maintenance of priseners, and for the pay- duties the importation of foreign cattle was yearly increasing.
iee he,
.1E bers conneeted with the poor-law, because some On an animal weighing only six cwt. the English let aver
Zietierait:for required to
clef
th!te miscellaneous
obtain the necessary information. suffered a loss of 31. 12s. 6d., as the foreign grazier could =-
services would be laid on the port it into this country, after paying all duties and charges,
eNe __°
.House with as little delay as possible, but any gen- for that amount less. He would just rake a comparative
eeteeti:equainted with the subject could make an accurate glance at the number of cattle imported into England for the
Ntte ef the sum which would be required. The Go- last three years. On the sth Jan., 1844, the number of oxen,
0, to would
laid
e been happy, had public business per- cows, sheep, Szc., amounted altogether to 2,099 animals. On
km havetio.. laid all these. Bills simultaneously on the table tee sth Jun., 1845, the number was 7,764. and at the same
Liksr :se• lie had sufficient experience ot public business period of 1846 the number was 34,426, which showed a most
Seesee'eat this was quite impracticable. He might have extraordinary increase. From this statement, therefore, the
ors,
lee. to answer the questions respecting the proposed mea- progress of the increase from 1842 had been gradually getting
Sli, 'ih regard to highways and drainage, if the Hon greater. He would move the emission of the following
Otsti°,4e had given notice of his intention to put it. At all articles, namely, oxen, cows, calves, beef fresh, and beef
':Zt .e, could assure hirre and the House that the Government salted, and not hams.
desire to withold any information which might be re- Colonel SIIITHORP felt the measures proposed by her
L sit'Ud Which they were in a position to give. He regrc tted, Majesty's Ministers to be of so unsound and unstatesmanlike a
1;11%1; that the questions had been addressed to him, because character that he hoped their time was limited to no very die-
Iliteuci'ot redrewConnee with some of those departments to which tart period. He (Colonel Sibthorp) had a letter from his
.op ree Ilad ce.( Hear. ) constituents, expressing regret that he did not accept the
etee ieetleßT UNIONS.- FARNHAM UNION. Chiltern Hundreds.—( Laughter. ) They were sorry he had
saltk.,, r-GHELL wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet, the not dune so, because they would have shown the Right Hon.
ettettera,ef State fur the Home Department, whether he was Baronet, that notwithstanding he would have sent down a
po're petition had been presented from the authorities nominee of his own, he ( Colonel Sibthorp) would have been
le,hart 4,,e_ ham Union, which was a single par ish under the returned without one farthing expense.
041,0 ti% complaining that the Poor-law Commissioners bad Mr. P. HOWARD thought the best course for the Govern-
i‘k othe e e that it was their intention to annex that parish ment to pursue in regard of cattle would be to have a registra.
els, lee rs undet the Poor-law Act. He stated that this order tern of cattle imported. Last year there had been imported
doubtieetei. founded on the report of Assistant-Poor-law 15,0e0 oxen and cows, and by putting on a duty of Is. upon
Zlltse `'et 'tenter Pigott with respect to this parish, which was that amount it would. produce 1,0001. By having such a sets-
eoteee' able of the House a few days ago, and which they tern of registration, it would be the means of ascertaining the
ISVllieaned to show was erroneous. He therefore wished to erecise number of the importation of cattle.
k, ot„,thier the Rightcanßaront would institute an in- Sir ROBERT PEEL had listened to the Hon. Member
Ikttl
'sh ~'' the matter and would sta y further proceeding, with that attention which his station demanded. He had also
ttliir teeinvestigatio'n was made. y listened to the Hon. Member for Somersetshire. The Hon.
%pie IneneeltAilwei said he had reason to know such an order elemher for Carlisle said there had been 15,000 oxen and cows
Ltd unsoiled by the Poor-law Commissioners. and he be- 'mported in the last year, but that did not prove that the price
rer...-`1471r detesion was sustained by the facts of the case. of meat had fallen. The contrary was the fact. It was proved
Vioe°e,P?wer to suspend the order, but he would call the on a former evening that the contract for meat in 1843 was
dro e' the Poor-law Commissioners to it, when the subject 11. I Si. 4d., but in 1844 and 1845 it heti more than doubled, and
PeT. .
k 1
eet eh ECTION TO LIFE (IRELAND) BILL. teat did nut show anything like the injury to the value of the art i-
(tie that Hon. elembers anticipated. There was Ireland, whose
Ve ill AW wished to know when Government proposed the soil was more fertile than in this country, and where the
itesty t.,:' first reading of this Bill? They evinced great wages of the labourer were much lower. The wages of the
lei liii*, remove protection on native industry, but they did agricultural labourer in that country were nernore, on average,
end et. et all ready in their desire to afford protection to than 10d. a day ; there was no land-fax, and no property-tax
o,r, etre.oleerty in Ireland. i here; and if the people of this country could compete against
Cegof GRAHAM said he intended to fix the first Ireland, which exported so much—a country with so many
eWe ef the Bill frir the first order day after the second advantages, where wages were so low—what need was
the Corn Bill. there to fear a competition with other countries? What oc-
llt - THE TARIFF. casion was there to fear a competition with Holland, where
().1% Flrt the use then proceeded with the tariff. wages were lower, but where the soil was not so good as in our
t,tZePlestion of silk-gut being propesed, own country? It would be no consolation to tell them that
.4YLEY objected to the duty being reduced on that they were being ruined by Ireland, and that, therefore, they
telss',;ett said it was erroneous, to suppose that the working should also allow themselves to be reine.fi, by otherf countries ,
Ilt.efoe,re ia favour of the Government measure, for meet- but there was no such prospect,. and the echo Ireland not re-
OA 01;‘2%*”vers had been held in Middleton, Manchester, clueing the price of meat in this market fully answered every,.
The price oi
ee'd lo lesierk and other places, at which resolutioes were. argument raised against this article of the tariff.
ke(fittle4 14'1)08160n to the Government measure. The teo• meat had considerably advanced. Was not every butcher rais-
L d t sleight do what they liked with the farmer and the nig the price of meat ?—was —was it not undeniable that the rise of
-et Propri •
eked i Proprietor, but he trusted they would not sacrifice the price was occasioned by the rate of consumption By admit-
ting this importation, they would at least put down the extra-
e. torneoverisesed weaver.—( Hear, hear. )
cli f,Q W RING wished to add a few words to what had vacant price demanded for this article of consumption. It had
N ttl2n the Hon. Member who bad just sat down. The been said that there was a decrease of sheep in Smithfield mar-
e'm ers of Lyons had addressed a very remarkable docu- ket during the las' year, and was_ he dioinghwdrong in giving
tli:, the Chamber of Commerce, in which they stated them a supp'y from abroad? t a heen
Its;it dhlt!re poor and were considered to be ignorant, but plained of also, that there was a scarcity. of the
t, ~,Leir poverty nor their ignorance had prevented then, article upon which cattle was fed. in this country, and
kilt% i"taining that restrictions on commerce were injurious he thought he was doing something to meet that want,
'rat interests of the people, and that they were deeply in- in allowing the importation of
tohfembatrley at the proposed re-
he means of feeding their
Reilltoneettbseinex,ennsionn
representedofmarkets
the
er
sametheir industryeinie as.
as The deautctled raatne,dwshoichhewhoeuttera
able to compete with the foreign
oiellitl:ts of the cotton dstricts in England ; Lid they cou- markets. Considering, then, the rep!ated. deficiency in the
'%:l to that 1.0 far from protection being a blessing, it was a markets, to which he had alluded, he did think that the admis-
eh%:leeterlustry. Ile (Dr. Bowring) knew not why the silk sion of cattle and sheep to this country from foreign countries,.
blurera should be w .rse treated than persons engaged in duty free, would confer a great benefit upon the agriculturist'
eellseLeneehes of manufacture.—(Hear, hear. ) The subject of this country, and therefore he should adhere to this propos!.
ea ster"ate was sills, and now the matters under considera- lion, for he felt assured that by it he had not sacrificed the in-
-117:44 e fishing implements; but he found that Hon. Gen- terests of others,
re Were in the habit of making speeches in the course of Mr. FINCH had heard a great deal said upon this subject.
-NylrUion which had reference to matters which were al- but he would just say in respect to the arguments adduci'd
setti
ht .Bkeeed pf, and be thought that such a waste of time in reference to high prices, that the effect of the high duty being
wo
A r. tee be sand to the House. taken off the foreign sheep and cattle, would only be to put
Iheettee • Bleitexelielecie thought that the speech of the money: n the pocket of the foreign importer, and therefore the
It illt,ehTher for Yorkshire had been mainly valuable from reduction of the revenue in that respect would be a needless
141141 sttation
i ration it had to rived from the speech of the Hon. one, because the English public would really derive no sub-
%tete t ter Bolton (Dr. Bosermg), a speech which he did not stantial benefit from it.—( Hear.) Another reason assigned
Qlo „o„saer was alike creditable to himself, the country, and for the importation of foreign cattle so extensively, and free of
r eteell'e•—(Cbeere ) But in that speech it was openly duty, was that they were of a description Si) inferior that the
,I4‘elly ~,, the weavers of Lyons and the people of France gene- English cattle dealer had nothing to fear from them.—( Hear,
iteNtletle e.e'irely in favour of free trade. a mistake of which hear.) But then other Hon. Members had argued that
eezesed Mous to disabuse the House. The Hon. Member for the breeders of foreign cattle had been so successful, that iii a
N_ „•gis ee'aid, do not on that side of the House say anything few years they would be able to compete with the first breeders
c ~-estion at all. The question of the silk trade, he of cattle in the world. Now, he begged to remind the House
ile sileel'essed, and it was not the proper course to discuss that the. English breeder of cattle had suffered much by the
eretettiheeteeha_d? .
on the quest of the silk gut. The Hon. destructive effects of the murrain in the cattle in his neigh-
Vet . bee said that the silk trade was most important to bourhood. Well, then, he would like to ask if the effect of
01 044, of was not the trade of the colonies of England ot this should be ttot_reaidsetprices, would. the Right Hon. Baronet
of ei,t imeertance to this country ? But let not this state be ready,,toinpwua
ahin.,u duty oHneaaaihrie,arin)thelsevent of the prices
gold I4eal of evercthing, and a settlement of nothing. he hecormoe quite true, that
lel. eieered of.—(Hear, hear.) The effect of this change the Irish beasts could not competewith the English beasts In the
les-" it t "tee any good in proeortion to the evil that estrum same way that- the foreign beasts did: but itiTs
Altte,.tioue had er, apologise' for having se long trespassed on that the foreign beasts would new be enabled alasy equally
3111.° to
;
enter into successful competition with the cattle of this coun-
lio'r. m t,ti of the House.
vNTZ •
14),1441114 „_, said he would vote for this measure because try, to the prejudice of the English agriculturists. If, there-
It, t ts,ra'ne for the repeal of All duties; but he would just fore, those reductions were to take place, what may they not
• 104.414 ,e about zinc as it had been alluded to by his lion. anticipate in the shape of reductions of the same sort to the
tie-4ton l-I,r hint, and ihe hoped he would allow him to put that
toepejuice introduced th li glish -English If foreign cattle were thus
etidi-eltereetT itsroper footing. He (Mr. Muntz) had often bee into the market the English dealer-
eee, re.a._, learn what he ought to have known befere. And would be ruined. There was at this moment an actual tax of
on
every head of English cattle brought into the
011;a tqair to the zinc trade, he certainly thought he knew a English u
the tele, about it, At one time that trade was confined to
H msrket, as had been proved by evidence taken before
of Lorde. The Hight Hon. Gentleman, the
liedeeel, ~/vill(ft° worked it merely for the purpose of coneuming
ste tried he never made any profit by
eit the ' f the aericultural ieendition o
it. Another person t-Chlerance°l7o3er of the
.Exch.eoeier laughed, but that only showed
st,.ilfa,t,. e manufacture of it, and the result was that he that he knew nothing whatever o , f
But he begged to remind the
se; utie'red himself into the Gazet f e . —(Laughter.) There the country.a( Hear hear)
Vnintry,' "e Period when zinc was at a high. pries, ie th.is R.ighten,tnlemian that when he took into account the
.at was ween tee zinc mines in s 1 esia, n e - -
pieeriets ttod th e i ' . `e 1 - Idifference betwei His actual price of barley and the tax upon
erte o haul quite plain that what he bad stated was
eri dim as
working but if the Hon. Member eielt. it would appear
he- er giv
trb• act ,i e him (Mr Mune' ) zinc at that price lie woule the fact., ,
ki 101 h "h him for
raes e Wish I,oeo tons. There was one other pow, Inc teIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he did
%le had 4 ed to mention. The whole trade carried on if: eot pretend to possess much practical knowledge upon this
hj, wh• I,een entirely destroyed by the bringing in of foreign subject, but he begged to remind the Hon. Member that last
ores le"' from it.s cheapnees,
.suspended the original menu- year a Bill was brought in by which to enable the farmers to
the of tram Uas any man for the repeal use malt for fatting their cattle. Upon that arose a.dispute as
fighter')e°'ll-law, ri
Aith ,as weewllaassatsheanrepweal of all other laws.—(Loud to whether malt or raw barle would be most beneficial for that
awe w,,,pe meant to say the repeal of all other du ies, purpose. The result was, that. an agreement was entered into
(j'ed to e''' .wieb them to be fairly adjusted while they were tor tryin,g the experiment with those two articles, and. .it was
tti nth list —.Agreed to. found that the cows fed upon raw barley gave more mile than
e,'R rester; from
duty of 15s. on spirits and strong waters hit:c fed upon malt. --t Heir, hear ) Patters bearing out this
oho. e. T the e,hestatement
ir, would be laid upon the table of the House, and he
Ate? oil c AIPSON objected, and said that by reducing the trusted they would satisfy the Han. Member.
aeereveeefinac brandy to loss, which was nearly one-third, Sir JOHN TY RRELL said be had heard a good deal upon
"4411 eof the customs would suffer a deficiency of 400,000/ the subject of malt and barley as food for cattle, but he should
I. Rs did not know on what grounds it was proposed like to ask the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty s
- - - -