The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-09 00:00:00

GROUP XVII.

MANCHESTER AND SOUTHAMPTON, AND
SOUTH-WESTERN (ROMSEY AND ELED-
BRIDGE BRANCH).
The Committee met this morning, at twelve o'clock ; the lion.
E. Yorke in the chair.
The first witness called was Mr. Joseph Clarke, snperintendent of
steam-vessels, plying between the Isle of Wight and Portsmouth and
Southampton, who stated that 14,980 persons passed to and fro an-
nually ; 12,480 between Southampton and Havre, and 129,400 annu•
ally, who embarked and disembarked at the Royal Pier. Direct
communication between Southampton and Cheltenham was mueh
wanted. _ _ . .

Mr. W. Squire, merchant and shipowner in the Isle of Wight,
stated that the glass manufactories of Birmingham were supplied
with sand from the Isle of Wight, which was now shipped at Yar-
mouth, in the Isle of Wight, and sent round the coast to Gloucester,
tram whence it was transmitted to its destination by canal; but it
was attended with great delays and inconveniences. The demand
for sand had increased in consequence of the reduction of the duty
upon glass. One of these complaints emanated from Mr.
P. Harris, one of the largest glass manufacturers In Europe,
who stated that he had 300 of his workpeople unemployed, in conse-
quence of the irregular supply of the commodity, whom he said he
should be compelled to discharge if he did not get a supply imme-
diately.

Mr. P. Harris, glass manufacturer, at Islington, near Birmingham,
corroborated the statement of the last witness. The sand from the
Isle of Wight was of a superior quality. Continuous communication
without break of gauge with the north would be most advantageous.
Mr J. George, grocer at Romsey, had sugar from London which
came round the coast. The Manchester and Southampton would be
of more advantage than the Romsey and Redbridge Railway, as it
opens up direct communication in addition to the north.

-Mr. G. Powell, ironfounder, Andover, considered that the proposed
line would save him 11. in the conveyance of his goods. The pre-
sent delays and expense of transit prohibited the extension of his
business. He should save ss. per ton in the transit of timber. Con-
sumed about 400 tons in the course of the year, 300 tons of which
he obtained from Wales, and the remainder from Scotland. By the
line proposed he should be able to compete more successfully with
other manufacturers.

Mr. J. Rawlings, an estate agent in Wilts, detailed at great length
the advantages which the line would confer on all the districts it
would traverse.

The Cemmittee adjourned until 12 to morrow.

GROUP XVIII.
EXETER (GREAT WESTERN).
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

J. W. Buller, Esq., late M.P. for Exeter, and Mr. Drummond, of
Exeter, gave evidence in favour of the line; also regarding the
western traffic.

Mr. Mitchel!, M.P. for Bridport, and Mr. Wells, magistrate of
Brldport, gave evidence in favour of the line.
The Committee then adjourned.

GROUP XX.

This Committee met at twelve o'clock this morning, in Room 31
Air. Sotheron in the chair.

LONDON, HOUNSLOW. AND WESTERN.
The examination of witnesses on the p.trt of the petitioners against
the Bill was proceeded with.
The first two witnesses examined were market-gardeners, who
gave their opinion that the proposed line would be of little or to use
to their business, and that it would be used by very few gardeners.
The COMMITTEE expressed their opinion that any further evidence
on this point would be superfluous.
Mr. Nelson, a solicitor, a,41 one of the petitioners, was then called,
and spoke to the injury this line would do to certain property be-
longing to him at Putney. As laid down the line would pass through
his house, and even using the extreme limits of deviation the line
would pass close to the wall. It would also do great injury to the
property of Lady Shelley and others.

Mr. Salter, clerk to the Hammersmith vestry, gave evidence as to
a meeting of the Hammersmith vestry, at which a resolution con-
demnatory of this line w,is passed almost unanimously. An amend-
ment was proposed, but only 27 members voted, and of these 9 were
for, and 18 against the amendment.
Mr Hughes. a salesman, in Covent-garden market, gave evidence
against the Hill.

Mr. Warren, a land surveyor, was then called, and said that he
had made an estimate of the cost of the land proposed to be taken
by this line, which he said would not be less than 104,720/.
The Rev. Mr. Baker, the rector of Fulham ; Mr. Panter, con-
tractor; Mr. Charles Lloyd, farmer, and other witnesses, gave ge-
dence against the Bill.
Mr. Key, secretary and manager of the Fulham Omnibus Association,
stated that he had held that situation about thirtgen months. There
were nineteen omnibuses belonging to the Association, and all the om•
nibuses going to and fro between Fulham and Lonrion were Included
in this number. Each of these emnibuses made twenty-nine journeys
per week—four on every week day, and three on Sundays ; 560,149
passengers were carried by these omnibuses in the course of the week,
being, on an anverage, twenty-one passengers per journey. The
omnibus fare was but sixp,nce the whole way; it would be much
more by the railway, and the saving of time would not be very
great. Not more than one-fifth of the existing traffic would go by
the railway.
Mr. Turrel, secretary to the Hammersmith Omnibus Association,
gave similar evidence to that of Mr. Key.

Mr. Hughes, civil engineer, was then called, and gave evidence
against the Bill, showing how, by a deviation (not within their
limits), a line mcch superior, in his opinion, to the Hounslow and
Western, might be made. It would be shorter by one mile, and
would inflict much less residential damage.
Mr. Garling4a surv, yor, gave evidence as to the manner in which
the line would pass through certain private property, and more
especially as to the injury to the property:et a Miss Anderton, which
he said would be rendered almost useless by the line passing through
it in the manner proposed.
As it was then intimated that there was one more witness to be
called, but he was not now present,
The Committee, after some discussion, rose at half-past three
o'clock, and adjourned till Wednesday (to-morrow being the Queen's
birth-day), with the understanding that they would not sit on
ThUllidtty, but on rising on Wednesday would adjourn till Friday.

GROUP XXIV.
ELY AND BURY.

The Committee on this line re-assembled at one o'clock, Mr. Gran-
ville Vernon in the chair, when
Mr. S. Valentine, the engineer of the line, gave the general en-
gineering evidence,which showed the gradients to be exceedingly easy,
and the earthworks small. The estimates for the works are
180,2371., and for land 49,7631. ; making a total of 230,0001. for the
whole of the expense.
To Mr. HOLMES the witness replied that he had been instructed to
lay out such a line as would effect a through traffic, but Lynn was
not a primary consideration in this line. An endeavour was made
to show that the proposed communication between Weedon and
Cambridge would satisfy the requirements of the district. The line i
would run, like the Eastern Counties Extension, fora mile over fen, the
height of the embankment for which would be 14 feet, which he pro-
Posed to lay down on the surface, withoet digging out to form a bottom.
The width of the embankment at the bottom would be 86 feet, the
width at the top 33 feet, and thelslope 1% to I. There was another
Point at 13 miles, 2 furlongs where there was bog, but the depth of it
he had not ascertained, not conceiving
fenny
it necessary, as he proposed to
cart
try the line on a level. There vas land but nothing
rulY could be called bog.
LO ascertain the depth of the
He had bored In Lveral places
proposed to erect brig beg, but only where he
cessity to do this, je: • For an embankment there was no ne-
to the other. He intenhdecclaitVbry was perfectly sound from one end
brdza bridge at Ely, where he had
bored, and found the depth to feet, and had not bored at any
other place. There wits a
a feet in depth at the end of tine
third furlong, but that he thought sv.
d to cross the Ooze at
station, and very near the spot where the Eastern
behind itmnedlment. He pro-
he Eastern Counties
23im
le Unionssiuiiogr,,o.cogil. to
cross It. The wholelength ofthellne tad IL),
the total cuttings 432,1-33 yards. They
and 80 links, and taking the whole length of the line the' side an'
cut-
tings would be 81,298 yards,
crossed 33 roads, of which 31 would be crossed at a level- The rail.
way was crossed at Sonham at the express desire of theinhanttrannts-
b were Jay a bridge. There be eight stations on h
There is a special agreement between the Eastern Counties Hallway
and the Lynn and Ely
Cnmptheany that the latter should have the.
free use of the station of
formerte cross the Sark four and a mile of the railway
gratuitously. It was proposed
times between Mildenhall and Bum the. distanencs. H
distance being
miles, but these crossings would be within sib
ts
epronpleosveedn
to obviate the flood water by timber viadu •
be twenty feet span, while the bridges at present in existence were
In
The bridges would
only twelve feet.
Mr. Itastrick, the eminent engineer, confirmed the whole of the
evidence of Mr. Valentine, the enigneer of the line, especially with
-r the
needlessness to the soundness of the line in the fenny district, and
needlessness for boring, except for the foundations of brick or stone
'bridges.
Mr. Allan Ransom, a machine maker, especially of agricultural im-
plements, at Ipswich, testified to the dock accommodation of that
town, and also as to the extent of the trade with Holland, and the
advantage this line would be of in opening the communication with
Lincolnshire and the western counties. The distance from Harwich
to Rotterdam was 145 miles, while the latter place was
248 miles from London. Harwich is a harbour of refuge,
and the only one between the Thames and the Humber.
Taking the whole district into consideration, for all the general
purposes of business, although the populations on both lines were
pretty equal, the Bury and Ely line would give the best accommo-
dation. But, considering Newmarket as an Important place, he
thought that the Ipswich and Bury would afford the best accommo-
dation, and Mildenhall was not a place of sufficient importance to
justify the withdrawal of the line from the best districts. So far as
Lynn was concerned, the same benefits would arise as would occur
to Ipswich. The Ipswich and Bury line was shorter, anti would be
nearer both to Newmarket and Cambridge ; and he could see no ad-
vantages to be derived from the Ely and Bury line which were not
conferred by the Ipswich line.
1' o Mr. ilowrnwtex, the witness replied that he employed about
740 men, of whom somewhat less than one-half were engaged in the
manufacture of agricultural implements, the rest were occupied in
the making heavy machinery, but the trade is restricted or the
want of railway accommodation.

To Mr. BaokLy the witness replied, that nine tenths of their iron
was brought from Newport, which came by water to Ipswich. All
the produce of Holland, or intended for that country, which came
from or was Intended to go to the south-east of England, would doubt-
less go through London ; but that which may be intended fer the
interior and to the west would go by Harwich, especially the oats,
which may hereafter be imported from Poland and carried
to Newmarket and to that neighbourhood.
• . Qa cross-examination, Mr. Ransom stated, that although it had
been intended to Igo to Newmarket, yet that branch had been
abandonled in-favour of the Chesterfield and Cambridge line.
The witness was than cross-examined as to the respective advan-
Liget of the severarports, which Mr. Ransom gale in faTour of Ips.

•
s

',rich ; and to which Mr. O'Malley replied that the tonnage on goods
was rated in the port dues according to the size of the vessels in which ,
they were carried, varying from Id. per ton to Is. 6d. on vessels of
500 tons.

_
After some observations from the CHAIRMAN, Mr. O'Malley was
proceeding, when the time for breaking up arrived, and the Com-
mittee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-n orrow.

GROUP XXXIX.
OLDHAM DISTRICT.

The Committee assembled to-day at twelve o'clock, Mr. Divett in
the chair, when
Mr. Clayton gave evidence as to the relative utility of the exten-
sion of the Manchester line, called the Oldham and:Manchester, or
as it was otherwise called the Birkenhead line. The evidence
adduced in the early part of the day went to show
that the Oldham District lines were the most advantageous,
partly from their opening the coal-fields better, and partly from the
circumstance of there being two termini, one at the east end and the
other at the west end of Oldham, while the Birkenhead line proposed
only one, which is intended to be in the centre of the town. A large
tract of land on Broadbent Moss might be brought into cultivation
if the facilities likely to be afforded by this railway were obtained.te
the
Mr. Sergeant WBANGHAM cross-examined, and elicid
the termini, it
held in Oldham in its favour. With respect to
had been
traffic on the Birkenhead line, and that meetings
appeared that they would have to reach
ter and Leeds
was now being formed by the Manches
both by a hill, and a tunnel
Com-
pany to go under the town.
the price of house-fire coal
was
sived that the York-
at.or a
ul t hy
about s pec t tloos . coo
tort
ghtcomaidesbebeafoursee
hsheirweascoo
Oldham. The witness coAnngede
ttoloikeolary
the railways were made.
alwawreasthnaot
The usual time of transit to Manchester
tatogeswupasersreodre
seventhe Oolrdhe.ami
was half an hour, though he believed it was sometimes three-
quarters.
To Mr. Foca the witness replied that he conceived the Yorkshire
coal would not go to Saddleworth, for it never bad been, but that
might be in consequence of the want of railway accommodation. He
could say nothing of the probable management of the district lines,
as he had taken no part in the direction, although a shareholder ;
though he conceived that stoppages would arise there, as many
lines met. He was generally acquainted with the trade of the dis-
trict, but could speak to no details.
to
Mr. Wright, Deputy-Chairman of the line, was examined
and cross-examined at great length, and stated that the Man-
chester !
the
Leedsand
dmpany by whom
theok h
Company
ooene-whasalf
toofhe
the
worked,capitai
and to whom it was to be leased at a certain rate of per centage.
By a clause in the Bill a power was to be given to sell the line
altogether, but the right of voting in the Leeds and Manchester
Company was only one vote for two shares, while the Oldham Dis-
trict Company was one vote for one share; and there was another
clausiz—on which the point of amalgamation —the present
established Company were prevented from voting at all.
There could be no question as to the superiority of the convenience
of the two termini instead of one. These lines would so open up the
communication with Rochdale, Bolton, and all the surrounding
districts. As respects coals, he believed that the consumption of
coal fur house purposes was about equal to that used for team-
engines. He himself was a cotton-spinner, had three steam-
engines, and consumed about 1,000 cwt. In the cotton man facture
there were 80 steam-engines, with an aggregate of 2,795 horse-
power; the number of hands employed were 14,280, and the quan-
tity of coals consumed was about 99,944 tons ; the quantity of cotton
and worsted made was about 42,804,0001b5. There had been a great
number of Paris velvet hats made of cotton at Oldham, a business
which might be very largely increased.
Mr. Platt, a partner in the machine manufacturing firm of Platt
and Co., of Oldham, stated that they employed more than 980
hands, that they received more than 5,500 tons of pig iron, and 250
tons of bar iron. They consumed 900 tens of coke, and sent to the
several places around machinery to the value of 165,1481., making a
tonnage of 15,000 tons ; of this quantity, Insufficient as the railway
accommodation might be, goods to the worth of 81,0001. were even
now sent by railway, and there was a general desire among
those whom they supplied to have the goods sent by railway. The
witness testified to the necessity of further accommodation, and to the
dissitisfaction of the public in Oldham with the management of the
Leeds and Manchester line.

Mr. Schofield, a timber merchant, stated that it cost more to bring
timber from the wood•growing district of Masborough, near Sheffield,
than it did to bring it from Dundee and London, until the Sheffield
Railway was opened.
The announcement of the Speaker being at prayers was made, and
the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP XLVI.
The following Bills are comprised in this new group, viz.:—
Newcastle and Darlington Junction and Tyne Dock.
Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Edinburgh, and Direct Glasgow Junction,
Wear Doek Railway.
Newcastle and 'Berwick.
Newcastle and Carlisle Extension.
Newcastle and Darlington, Durham and Sunderland, and Wear-
mouth Dock Purchase and Branches.
Northumberland and Lancashire Junction.

The Committee assembled at a few minutes to two o'clock in
room 13 ; present Mr. Bramstona (chairman), and the other Mem-
bers.

The list having been read through, it appeared that the parties
roinoting the Wear Dock Railway, and the Northumberland and
ancashire Railway, had abandoned these Bills.

NEWCASTLE AND DARLINGTON, DUR-
HAM AND SUNDERLAND, AND WEAR-
MOUTH DOCK b. PURCHASE BRANCHES.
Precedence was given to this Bill, and, the formal business having
been gone through,

Mr. HILDYARD, counsel for the promoters said, thst the object
of this Bill was to construct branches to a railway called
the Newcastle and Darlington, which Bill had received the
sanction of Parliament in 1842. The advantages of that
line were admitted, and their object was now to improve it still
further. He would call the attention of the Committee to the im-
portance of the objects sought by the promoters of the Bill before
them. At the first branch off Sunderland there was a population
of sixty thousand persons, who were provided with the
requisite accommodation. A Bill for the improvement of the docks
south of the Wear had received already the sanction of Parliament
this year. The present mode by which the people of Sunder-
land went southward was most inconvenient, because in
effecting that object they had to go northward, which
would be obviated by the proposed branch, the esti-
mate for which was 178,0001. Tne only opposition offered to the
Bill was, with respect to the last branch, namely, from fietton to
Fenchurch, and that by a party through whose property the line did
not pass. It appeared that there was a tram-road on the line, which
had been constructed for the purpose of conveying coals, and which
traversed their property. The party petitioning complained that as this
rain-road was in the neighbourhood of his property, the same would
be injuriously effected by the railway if any diversion of the traffic
from the tram road should ensue, as he was paid a certain sum by
the parties who had constructed this tram road. He trusted that
under these circumstances the Committee would not entertain for a
moment this petition. It was a fact that Parliamentary Committees
had not allowed compensation to canal companies for injury
done to their property in this way. If it should so happen that any-
portion of the petitioner's property was invaded by this railway
liberal compensation would be given. The other branches would
yield great accommodation to the district through which they would
pass, and a firrther accommodation would be afforded to Durham.
He trusted, in conclusion, that, without trespassing at any consider-
able length on the time of the Committee, that he should obtain his
Bill.

Mr. Harrison (engineer of the line), was then examined as to the
advantages of the line, to which he bore testimony.
Mr. R. Nicholson, of Newcastle, engineer, corroborated Mr. Har-
rison's statement as far as regarded his neighbourhood.
Mr. Hynde, M.P., was also examined, and stated that the line
would be very beneficial to Newcastle.

After hearing some observations from counsel in support of the
petition against the Bill,

The Committee decided that the preamble of the Bill was proved,
with the exception of the branch from Fenchurch to iletton.
The Committee then adjourned.