The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-30 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

Gt,OUP

MILL' .TZII, 217.fie1:f.-7, (31.1"
.11.1-1.7,10:.171X-2117.X0
Mr. Joseph D. Sareuda, examined by Mr. MeraveLE :
You are an engineer ?—I am.
You have heard the statements with respect to the character
of this bridge crossirg the canal ?—I have
Di you see any difficulty in the passage of the caral by a
draw-bride e, with the adoption o the atne)sphetie apparatus ?
—I ve no difficulty in the passage of trains actress ; there is
ne diffieuity vvatever. It may be managed so as to leave it en-
tirely free from all objections.
Do you agree entirely with Mr. Brunel that it might be
dose as at other intersections ?—The plan Mr. Brunel speaks
of for terminating the tubes on caeh side of the canal, and
passing the train over by the momentum, would be an easy
mode of doing it ; the eoa:munication between the two tubes
thus disjointed, would be, by a close tube, taken under the
canal; or i: might be made without any interruption in the
tube whatever ; and the tube is so arranged as to join with the
other tubes at the time the bridge wes not open.
How would vnu arrange it. in a.general way ?—As a general
thing I. should terminate the tube on each side of the bridge,
and pass it over by momentum.
If you do take the tubes across, how would you do it ?
Under the bed of the canal.
Cross-examined by Mr. Cocxeu err
Is your Croydon an atmospheric line only ?—lt is.
Open to the public?—Yes.
And trains running on it?—Yes.
Since when ? Since the 19th cf January.
How often ?—We have now thirty- two trains every day
running.
You mean thirty-two trains including both ways, going and
coming ?-- Yes.
You have met with some little difficulties?—None.
Do you mean that the trains have tun without any accident
whatever?—Ne ; I do not mean that the trains have run with-
out any accident whatever—l mean that we have met with no
difficulties.
I do not know exactly what you mere by saying that the
trains have not run without accidents, but you have met with no
difficulties. Occasionally you have had to get your passengers
ant of the carriages, you not being able to complete this jour-
ney—that has happened more than once ?—I think not.
You think not?—Not more than once. I.am not speaking
with great certainty about it, but I think not.
How much of your line is open ?—We have five miles open.
We have a distance open from - Forest-hill to Croydon. We
have had interruptions to the working of our traffic on that
bee—partial interruptions, but no difficulties. I will explcin
;,r von what those interruptions have arisen from.
Wieee were the interruptions?—The interruptions we have
had, then, save mainly been occasioned by the breakirg of
some of the princjpal parts of the steam engines, the crank
axles of the steam engiees ; they are an important part, which,
when they break, cause the eer,ines to be Orsabkd till it is re-
placed. Every one of the branch les of the engines were
brcken, the engines having been made ei-ithout a due regard
to the strength we require for the work ; though ieere than tuf-
ficient in power parts of the engine are unequal to the strain
which is put on them; that is one portion of the reason. Another
portion of the interruption has been . caused by the air-hump
valves which have been introduced into these engines being
of a different character from that which was practically found
to be effective; these were a light wooden valve, and were found
in practice to he inefficient; the consequence is they are being
changed for the ordinary iron valve used at Daikey.
'lhey are being changed ?—They have not been changed
but they are being changed. In one instance they have been
changed.
Altogether there have been a good many interruptions?—
Altogether there have been but very few interruptions.
How Many ?-I think, putting aside the breakage of the

crank axles ---
Ido not want-you to put that aside; lam speaking of the
interruptions, taking them altogether.—"then I should suppose.
the int-Truptions which. have taken place inay,have amounted
to twelve or fourteen, probably twelve or. fourteen occasions,
when the traffic was. interrupted; I should think so.
And what has been the time for which it has been inter-
rupted?—The very first day we opened to the public two of
these crank axles broke in the same engine-house, and ren-
dered an interruption of course necessary till they could be re-
paired. That occupied I think two days. Now I want to guard
you, or to guard myself, against conveying an impression that
this was an accident to be expected. If these engines had been
made as they should have been made, with suitable materials
for the work they had to perform, that is an accident that
wool l not have occurred ; or, if the accident had occurred to
only one engine, the traffic would not have been slopped, be-
cause the other engine would perform, and has performed the
work.
What is the period during which those interruptions took
place?----Tito trains-ran the next-day. I thought it was two
days. I recollect they ran the next day. The other interrup-
tions I spoke of, with regard to the air-pump valves, never
caused delays of wore than half an hour. As to the other acci-
dents to the engines, I think there was one other accident to the
engine itself, which cawed a delay of about three hours.
How many engines have you at work it. the five miles that is
open?—We have three pairs of engines; one pair fixed at
either extremity, and one at a station not quite, but nearly half
way

Do you mean at each extremity of the five miles?—Yes.
And the other is at an intermediate spot?—Not exactly in-
termediate. It is three miles from one end, and two from the
other. It is fixed there for the convenience of the station.
What is the extreme length at which you propose to have
your engines frcm every station?—The extreme length we are
puuing them down—on the general length we are laying them
down—is three mites asunder, the same distance as exists be-
tween Norwood and Forest Hill.
Jo,eph Locke, Esq.,called • examined hy Mr. Cocicnuart—
You are the engineer to the Exeter and Exmouth line ?

I am.
Aod you are acquainted with the whole of the line ?—I am.
[Mr. Locke home gave detailed evidence es to the line, esti-
mates, &e.]
I believe you have turned a good decl of your attention to
the question of the atmospheric principle of traction ? - -I have.
Have you been carefully attending to the progress of the ex•
periments on the Croydon line?-1 have.
I believe you have had some one constantly watching the
progress of the trains there since the line was opened ?—I have.
Have you got the results ?—I have some of them, as far as I
can get the fact from inquiry and from observation.
Is the result of that inquiry satisfactory with reference to the
practicability of the application of that principle ? It is neither
satisfactory as to the application of it, nor is it satisfactory in
a commercial point of view, as to the expense of it; neither in its
application, considering the number of delays that have oc-
curred on the line during the last three months, or as a com-
mercial question, considering the nature of it.
Have you got there a list of the various instances of delay ?
Yes, I have.
Just state the result ?—I have not them here, but I have the
principal.
Mr. MERIVALE ObjeCi.,(l to this line of examination, corar':
tending it was upon matter which ought to have been gone
into on.the examination of Mr. Hamilton.
Mr. CooFeuaN 7Ra:heard in answer to the objections.
The Cos.tati'rx.gy were of opinion that it was competent for
Mr. Cockburn to examine any witnesses to contest the applica-
bility of she atmospheric system. The weight the Committee
would att.ach to the results prulticctd by Mr. Locke would de-
pend on the authority4Mylilicih they were derived. - •
By Mr. Cocaso attr:i- Without taking you into great detail
on the subject, you were about to say you thought with refe-
rence to the question of experience, the atmospheric principle
was one not properly applicable to the subject of railroads?—
That is my opinion.
you give any grounds for that opinion ?—I already
formrd that opinion some time ago, that the first cost of the
atmospheric system cost as winch in interest of money as the
entire cost of locomotive power, and I entertain that opinion

atm.
Have you any evidence with reference to the coat whit;
has been occasioned on the Croydon line?-1 have.
Does that throw any light on the subject?—lt has enlightened
me very much.
That is the matter of recent fact ?—Up to the present time,
locomotive power has been considered as from s to 10d. a
mile, and it is at this moment averaging, in the metropolitan
lines something like 10d. .a mile. The South-Western, for
instance, two years agooves is. The contest which then arose
was whether locomotive power was chea-:.er at Is. per mile
than the atmospheric. 1 believe the atmospheric now, by
the new experiments which have been tried, instead of costing
Is. cost 23 10d. per reie fir labour and coal only, saying no-
thing either of wear. ati,l tear of the machinery, the interest of
capital, the supplying of the grease and materials, of which 1
have no means of forming judgment. •
What enables you to mile to 'that coixiusion ?—Becatre
have had men who have aseertaine.d the quantity of coal con-
sumed at each engine, and tliere are persons in this roman pre.
pared to give evidence ofthese facts; that in point of fact it is
three times as much al.illecost of locomotive power ; the mere
cost of labour and, cafet independently of the after expenses in-
curred on thafline of which 1 have no, means of giving tl.e
facts.
You have heard of accidents-with the engines can you ex-
'plain to us thoge accidents which have taken place ?—The fact
is, that the engines have broken, and it may be attempted to be
explained that they are not properly adapted for the work they
have to perform, but I believe the engines to be very good ones.
Is it your opinion that the engine power, as first tried on that
line, was adequate to the work it. was put to?—I believe it was
necessary to overstrain the engines in• order to get a-certain
amount of power.
If it was necessary to have a more powerful engine, would it
cost more?—lt would.
As to that paper of delays, you say there is somebody here
who has taken a note of them ?—Yes.
Cross-examined by Mr. Foots—ln the construction of.
bridges, I believe the foundations form ii very considerable por-
tion of the expense ?—Yes they do very often.
And that expense is increased in great p.oportion by the
character of the soil you have to go through?—No doubt.
It makes a very considerable difference?—Yes.
Whether it is on a rack, or on mud, or on silting substance ?
—No doubt.
Can you give us the difference between the relative facility
of checking the speed of trains on lie atmosphericis principle,
and on the ordinary locomotive principle ?—Tnat the sub -
jeet of dispute again, on which it is impossible to give an
opinion. al), opinion is, you can stop a train with a locomotive
quicker than you can with the atmospheric ; it is a matter of
opinion.
Should it be necessary to construct two swing bridges on the
Exe and the canal, the danger you apprehend will be very con-
siderably increased—two bridges, one over the Exe, and over
the canal. Supposing it to he necessary, for the purpose of
facilitating the navigation, that there should ago be a swing
bridge there, for the purpo=es of the navigation, the danger to
be apprehended will be considerably increased ?—No doubt.
Can you give us, as a matter of opinion, whether 1,4001. for
the construction of the bridge over the canal is a reasonable and
proper sum?—l have already said, Ido not think it is.
It is intended, we hear, to carry the tube of the atmospheric
line under the canal, and then to shoot the train over the bridge
byi ts own momenturri?—Yes.
Do you see any inconvenience in that 7—Yes, Ido;it is a
a very pre'ty thin; to talk of, but it is not a good practicable

thing.
We have heard of accidents and delar, which you are always
to;liable suppose any accident should occur while the train is
on the bridge, uhile it is separated from the top of the pipe,
which is pasking under the river at the time, what will become
of the train?—lt will be fixed to the bridge.
It will depend on whether they had power on the bridge to
stop it, in order to prgent an accident; if they have, they
would stop it, and it cannot start again ? -They have no power;
they must ke,p a hor,e,- or a locomotive engine if they like it
better, to take the train.
That might occasion considerable delay and inconvenience?
—Certainly ; and a great certain expense.
They Tc.ust lime some means of traction then, or else they
would be liable to considerable delay ?—lt is subject to that in-
convenience certainly.
Cross-examined by Mr. MrurvAr.r —That is, if they were
to stop on a transit of thirty feet ? herever they stop.
This being a transit of thirty-three feet only ?—Wherever
the stoppage may be.
'I hey are not very likely to atop in passing thirty feet
cannot say.
You are aware that an intersection of the passage of the tube
is in of oration already on the Croydon line, not under a canal
but under a road?—l do not know the fact.