The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-04 00:00:00

a. - -• •..
neat confident* could the people be expected to have in the
administration of its provisions? —(Hear, hear.) Then tonne
the State trial., in reference to which, he would ask, was there
not a one-aided charge delivered' rinothat •occamon, -acid - o kAlt-
impression was that prone ediog calculated to lease upon the
minds el the Irish people?—( Hear, hear.) Well, then, he
would tell the Government that they were bound to make
seine recompense for ail this misery, and injustice, and wrong.
What had he suggested as such recompense? As yet he had
siazgested nothing, but before he sat down he meant t ,d i eq.
No doubt some erratic murders had taken place in Ire: 'int hut
the great mass of crime entirely arose out of questions about
the possession of land. He was sorry to say that there were
exceptions to this, and that they had of late become mote
numerous. But the great question, the great evil of
Ireland had its origin in disputes about land.—
( Hear, hear.) Hitherto the Government of this country
had done nothing for the protection of the rights of the Irish
tenant, while they had passed numerous enactments by which
they had increased the power of the landlord The 53d Geo.
111, cap.
88, was the first Act after the union that gave the
Irish landlord a summary power of ejectment. Up to that time
such an act was unknown in England, er in any part of civil-
ised Europe. Up to that time no landlord had ever ottempted
to distrain the growing crop of his tenant for his rent— ( Hear.
hear)—but that Act gave him the power to do so. That Act
gave him the power to distrain the growing crop; and until
it was ripe and fit to cut he would place keepers upon the tin
fortunate tenant, at al immense expense, for perhaps five or
six weeks • and he (Mr. O'Connell) did not believ- that a
more fruitful source of discontent and crime had ever been
heard of than that which that Art had moved iu its operation.
In some elves, where the wretched tenant was seized upon in
this way, he had not the means of supplying his family with
food, and if his wife went forth to beg it. she would be taken
up and imprisoned; and let him ask, could such a law fail t-'
be a fruitful source of crime ?—( Hear, hear.) The next
Act for increasing the power of the landlord over the tenant
was the st'th Geo. 111 , which not only gave the power of
Civil Bill ejectment, but the power of turnii•g out the tenant;
and the ist George IV., cap. 87, further increas• d that
Power, by enabling the landlord to demand from the tenant
security for the costs of an action before he could take
defence in a case where he felt convinced his landlord was the
aggressor—a system of law which, he believed, was unknown.
and unheard-of in any other civilised country in the worid
( Hear, hear.) The let and 2d, and the 6th and 7th William
IV., were next passed, and they still further increased the
power of the landlord —as if the Legislature thought that
their only interest was the interest of the landlord—( Hear. )
Well, then, the remedy which he would sugeest should be ap-
plied to remove all t:.ose causes of crime, and all those imple-
ments of injustice, was, that measure of full and complete
justice to Ireland which she bad so often demanded.—( Hear,
hear.) Ireland had not an adequate number of representa-
tives in that House ; she had not a fair proportion of the elec-
tive franchise. Grant her those and other measures of justice
which he had so often enumerated, and that was the real way
by which to coerce the Irish people. Coerce th mby their
'affections and their gratitude, and then they will be all
that a Government could wi,h them.—( Hear, hear.) New,
With regard to the landlord and tenant question, he woald ask,
why not give the tenant at least a lease of twenty-one years of
his farm? Recollect, that if the land on which the Irish antasant
lived be taken from him, he is deprived of the means of life.
Why should he not be allowed a fair compensation for the ex-
penditure of his capital end his labour in improving his land •
lord's property? He (Mr. O'Connell) did not mean any ex-
travagent allowance for fantastical outlay ; there was little fear
of that ; but he wanted to have the remunerated for his
labour, forthe loss of his property; and it he improved the land
he held, he should be allowed to have the full benefit of
( Hear, hear.) Ohl if this were done, only see what a stimu •
lent it would he to ability and industry.—( Hear, hear. ) How
happy and contented the Irish tenant would be when he felt
that his labour was his own, and that he was working for him-
self.—( Hear, bear.) Let him have this, without encumber-
ing it with clauses and provisions, with which he might never
be able to comply ; prevei.t that wild, savage " clearance"
system, through whose agency so many crimes that affrighted
the land had been committed, and he promised the House they
would hear no more of those crimes.—(rlear, hear.) He
would now refer to the Ulster tenant-right, and read an extract
from the evidence that had been published in reference to it.
That was the evidence given of the state of things in the
north. How often had he heard gentlemen boast of the
peaceful disposition of the people of the north ; but why were
they so, but because they were better treated by their land-
lords ?—(Hear. ) The tenant going nut was allowed to seli
the tenant-right, er dispose of it as he wished: he was not a
wretched beggar, as in the case of less-favoured districts of the
country. now, he gave the Government their choice between
the conditions of the people of Ulster and Tipperary : the
present was the moment to decide ; let them decide wiser
for they might be assured their miserable Coercien Bill would
not answer.—(Hear, hear.) There were, to be sure, many
excellent landlords in I ipperary, but there was also a nume-
rous body of exceeding bad ones.—( Hear.) Then, there
were many estates in the hands of the ,tenants ; but let
the Legislature intervene; let the law take, al it were, the posie
tion and situation of the land ord: lot it do but justice, and
there would in a short time be an end of agrarian crime in
Ireland.--( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. O'Connell) was nut
ing the Governmont to travel into unfrequented ground ;
they had the evidence of 300 years before them in respect of
the tenant right in Ulstee, and let them act by it.—( Hear,
hear.) He wou:d not then occupy the time of the House
longer, as it would be idle of him to go into further detail.
He had pointed out the evils that existed, as well as what he
had conceived would be their remedy, and it then rested wilt
the Government to tempt or reject those remedies as they
pleased. Ulster was tranquil under the tenant right, while the
south and west were disturbed because of the insecurity of
tenure. The unhappy pusantry were reduced to the half-rutted
potato fur their food, with tae water their only drink. Their
houses were pervious to the rain ; they were ill-c:othed and
ill.covered, but all that was known before, and he would not
repeat it or add to it a single avoid, but conclude by proposing
the amendment with which he had set out.—( Hear, hear. )
Captain B. OSBORNE ( whose opening observation+ did
hot reach the gallery) was understood to say that, in rising to
second the amendment so ably proposed by his Hots. and
Learned Friend (Mr. O'Connell) he was anxious to guard
himself from being misconceived, because, while he shared
with the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home
Department that feeling 01 horror at the crime of assassination
in Irelands yet, as a resident of the country to which the present
measure was intended to apply, and one deeply interested
in her welfare, he deprecated its introduction, as being, in his
opinion, inefficient. and strongly calculated to influence the
complicated evils of that country. It was easy for Members of
that House to come down, and, expressing their horror of mur-
der, call on the Legislature to enact more stringent measures
for the protection of life. But in his opiaiou It would be much
More worthy of the statesman if he first applied himself to the
concoction of a measure that would go to eradicate the causes
of these outrages.—( Hear, hear.) It there was one duty more
imperative in a statesman than another, it was that of proving
to the people of Ireland that he was ready to grapple with their
condition social, political, and religious—( Hear), whilst on the
other hand a coercive measure was a prof anti
an acknowledgement of his incapacity as a Minister. —(Hear.
hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir J. Graham)
had, on a former night, referred to the language of Mr. Burke
on the subject of free trade; and he (Captain B. Osborne)
would then beg to refer him to the sentiments of that
great man on a question similar to that then before the House.
—( Hear.) Mr. Burke said, speaking of coercion, " God for-
bid, that on a worthy occasion authority should want the means
of being enforced ; but where the hearts of the people do not
go with the hands of the soldiery, you may call your Constitu-
tion what you like ; but it will, in effect consist of three orders,
namely, cavalry, infantry, and artillery. "-(Hear, hear. )
If he (the Honourable Member) could allow his
feelings to warp his judgment, and if he c ,nsidered
that the present measure was the least suited for the suppres-
sion of crime in Ireland, he confessed he would feel induced
to give his vote in favour of the second reading of the Bill ;
but he should declare that his feelings were nthetwise as to its
result.—( Hear, hear.) He doubted net that there were many
in that House who, from the superficial view they had taken o*
the subject, were ready to commit themselves to its support.
but if it should be shown that the provisions of the Bill were
more likely to create discord than the contrary—if it could be
shown that the Bill it self would be inoperative, he called on Hon
Gentlemen interested in the welfare of Ireland not to commit
themselves to its support.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hun.
e Home Secretary read numerous extracts, from reports
furnished the Government, ent, of the state of crime in
Ireland. Now (Captain Bernal Osborne) might fol-
low his example intituhee:ilimite wi.ay, hut he would then merely
confine himself to
accuracy of those extracts,
os in his opinion ther(etwan! vast exaegeration of the amount
of crime in Ireland.—
eu hear)ra.
yl3 gut forthe the.tat
issatki.
rs ;o f
andsr -
foment, he would admit the
then he would ask how the Gevernmes.ttrieniended to meet the
.
question? The Lord Lieutenant was oed with a power to
proclaim a district, and make it a tr msporite le offence for
persons to be out at a certain time in the evening after sunset
Such was the principal provision of the measure
Rtight Hon.
intendedenoonday
f it
the pacification of I reland.--( Flitlarat would)Di deterde
h
secretary attempt to show how
nday
murderer, how it would operate to induce persons
to come forward and give evidence against him.
-dicate the evil ?-

combined with other eircumstanees which tended to show that
they were engasserl in utilawful conspiracies which connected
them vrinl.as fln. s induc d the 1 rilh ,Farieunelenk to
pa s a lerenerinergig such en uceediegs ill al. they 'ongiat:
surely, to have some indieeticns which would ten oco p -
• - t risi
mins parses before they 1 roceeded :gains! them. They ought
not to take nigh er indiea ions of crime than had been taken
at former perim's When such Bills as that before them. er
Bills of a similar character had been passed fan the purp se of
restoring peace in Ireland, it was necessary that the
district so affected should be prodaimed by the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland, for many instances had occurred where
ora l
many innocenttrigth of time. personsme.B
hadat beenitis ,u
transported
forsport pedearnsodns,imprisonedto
f
districts of Ireland, to be out after sunset in winter, autumn,
and spring, for purposes that no one can blame them for. It
may be that their cattle have wandered, so that they are re-
Tined to be seen after, that their rences are broken ; it
may be that the' are attending a wake, or the funeral of one of
their friends or relations; and are we to punish these persons
hecanse they, under these circumstances, are out after sunset ?
Under ail these circumstances persons are very fable to be nut
alter sunset ; 50,1 ire t• ey to he taneo up by toe polite, to be
br ught before a magistrate. and. tinhuss thsa can show chat they
have been out for a lawful purpose:—are they to be committed
by the magisat ate for trial ? I think that the Bill may be
ameneed so far that induc dein% may be required to show that
persons found out atter sunset, lenore they are punished. must
have meditated a crime. Sir, I wish this cleuae to he ex-
pressed in a totally different manner from what it is at pre-
sent. I should wish filet the clause would speedy
persons out. under "suspicious circumstances,” which
would justify the magistra e in committing them.
With respect to other parts of the Bill—wish respect to those
winch enable the Lent Li-inenant to impose a rate on persons
with the view of payine an increased ciinstabuiary, I think that
is a wise matter to be considered in Committee. I know that
same objections have b 'en made to that, yet I think it is de-
sirable to base au increased constabulary in those disturbed
districts, and that it is desirable the Bill should go to the Com-
mittee for the purpose of considering that clau-e. Hat, now,
Sir, there is another question arises, and upon this subject I
cannot hut refer to the Bill as it. was originally introduced. I
hold in my hand a paper, published in this town. giving aft
account of the five stages of this Bill, as passed by the House
of Lord.. I cannot. but remark, that when this Bill was first
introduced, it wis of a perinanent character, and contained no
clause by which its duration should be limite I. Sir, it has
been my fortune to hold a si-nation in which I was to a certain
degree connected with the Government of Ireland, in which,
though I dill not interfere actually in that Government,
I considered myself responsible for that Government,
and I took care to he infirmed of every
step that was taken with respect to it. Nuw, during that time
I agreed to a Bill of a annilar character to the present, but I
agreed to it in the persuasion that means would be found of so
executing the law—of so administering the Government of
Ireland, that it would not be necessary to put that Bill in
operation. The Bill of 1835 is the one to which I allude. I
do not remember whether any case whatever occurred in which
that Act was put in operation during the five•years which it re-
mained in the statute. book. The Right Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last said, that confidence was a plant of slow
growth on subinta of this kind. I quite agree with the Right
Hon. Gentleman in that natement, and it was being convinced
of the soundness of that opinion that I agreed to any measure
of this k'nd. But during the time in which Lord Normanby
was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland—in which my Noble Friend
near me (Lord Morpeth) was Chief Secretary for Ireland, and
Sir Michael O'Loghlin, Chief Justice O'Grady, and Chief
Justice Wolfe, held distinguished situations, as law officers of
the Crown ; it was their endeavour —and I had the satis-
faction of rather witnessing than superintending their
endeavours—and I haul the satisfaction of witnessing
their earnest, patient, and continual endeavours, in connexion
with my lamented friend, whose memory I shall ever hold in
respect-1 mean the late Mr. ',rummond—and I had the satis-
faction of seeing their efforts from day to day inspire confidence
in the ordinary administration if the law—to induce the people
of Ireland to believe tb It if those quarrels, which they are apt
to dispense of by a bloody arbitrement, were brought into the
courts of law, they would have justice; and that by that means
the ordinary power of the Constitution would be sufficient in
Ireland, as it was in England. I hei the satisfaction of think-
ing that, in a great measure, these efforts succeeded—(Cheers)
—that altheugh in the short period during which the attempt was
made, it eld nit succeed in giving that perfect confidence, and
mat constant reliance on the power and mpartiality of the law,
yet'a great progress was made in establishing that which I
think was a stable foundation of the future welfare of Ireland.
The Right Hon. Gentleman. who has just speken, has de-
nounced. or rather protested, against all party allusion on
this subject. The Right Honourable sientleman, ant those
who act with him, did not always dui so.—( Cheers.)
I was rather astonished at a speech said to have been deli-
vered by the Right lion. Gentleman to his constitueets, in
which hteestated that the late Government h•id lets Ireland in a
:tote of e surrection, and the endeavours of the present. Go-
vernment had restored it to tranquillity. I quite acquit the
Government of having, by any act. of theirs, produced a state
of crime in Ireland, yet I cannot think that the Hight Hon.
Gentleman did justice to our exertions, or that those ash° act
with him have ever fairly represented the state of Irelen 1 as
it was under the late Administrate on. And, Sir, I was in
hopes that when that Bill of 1535 expired it would not be
necessary to ask for any other Act of a sir, ilar nature. lam
orry to find that the Government at present do say that it is
necessary. lam sorry to hear that the Right Hon Gentle-
man like-A ise tritest against any mixture of questions of re-
me nal measures with the present Bil. Sir, I think that
there again is a serious, I had almost said a fatal, mi-take. The
Government must be aware, conneeteft as they are with a
panty in Ireland which is but a small minority in that eotratry,
that they should eitdeaveur by every means to make
an impression in Ireland of their fairness and im-
partiality—( Hear, hear-- and they should have avoided
anything like a suspicion that they were not bringing forward
remedial measures at the same time that they bring forward
this measure. Observe this is not a Bill which they brought
fuvirward on the first day of the se-sion, and declared should
be passed hastily because it might be the means of preventing
murder. It is a Biil which we cannot pass for one, two,
twee months and a half, or few months from the first meeting
Parliament. Ido regret that with a measure of this kind they
vvers not ready to introduce aremedial measure at the same time.
Allusion has b uen made to the Bill called the Coercion Act,
introduced under Lord Grey's Government, for which I, for
one, as an adviser of the Crown, was responsible. That was
a more severe measure than the present one. It was untended
to meet a very serious and calainitoas state of thing=. But
he Government that brought it forward were by no means
insensible to the necessity of remedial measures at the same
'ime that they introduced that measure of severity. It was
stated by the 12leht lion. Gentleman that Parliament met
on the 29th of January, and the Bid was introduced
on the 2nd ca February. The House will recollect that the
King's speech was not delivered until the s'h of February.
tint on the 12th of February, one week after the meeting of
Parliament, Lord Althn p introduced a measure which was a
great reform of the Protestant Church of Ireland, and ex-
empting the whole of the Roman Catholic community of Ire•
land from the payment of church crass, which was a great
grievance and burden to them: On another day Lord Al
thorp declared his intention of bringing before Parliament a
Jury Bill which had been brought into this House in a pre-
vious session, and had been allowed to drop in the House of
Lords. On the occasion of the first introduction of the
Coercion Bill it was referred to by the Hoa. and Learned
Gentleman who moved the amendment, and he asked Lord
Althorp what was his intention with regard to the remedial
measures. fie sad he haul already stated several remedial
measures, but he trusted the House had sufficient confidence in
him and would be ready to approve the measures which he
should introduce. The Hen. and Learned Gentleman was not
satisfied. He asked, what expectation there was of carrying
these measures in the other House of Parliament, and
Lord Stanley at once declared that unless time remedial mea-
sures were rarried, there would he an end t the Government.
That was the spirit in wind) Lord Stanley, as a Member of Lord
Grey's Goveinment. acted. I cannot, theiefore, approve of
the declaration of the tight lion. Gentleman, that we are to
east this measure, and that asremedial measures were matters of
diffieulty, they should lit be considered. There was another
declai anon made by Lord Althorp, which some how or other
.eem, to have fallen into forgetfulness in those who were then
his colleagues. It was a declaration with iespect to the Mimi-
cipal Corporations of Ireland. Lord Altherp proposed a Com-
mittee. and said that from that Committee a Bill had been
introduced for the purpose of reforming the Cot poration of
eico,land, and he hoped to refer the corporation of England
and Ireland to the me Committee. He gave the reasons for
•seferi nee the matter to the same Committee. and the first rea
on was that it was r xeeedingly desirable feat the two countries
-nould be assitni wed as much as possible, and as a general rule
ri confer the same rights wi;h respect to the corporate bodies
in Ireland, as these betties
possessed in England. That was
the simple and plain, bin emphatic and deci declaration of
Lord Ahhern. Then on the 14th, two days after, he had intro.
lured his measure for the abolition of the church roes, and eight
days before the Coercion Hill in that House. I find
that Mr. O'Connell said he knew of no greater
gtievance iu Irel int.. than the existence el the Corporations in
question, and nothing was mime satisfactory to the people of
Ireland than the approaching
certainty that the grievance
'ould be redresmd. That was in the year 1833, thirteen years

„..
whole history of that country. I will not now occupy that
length of time which even a glance at some of the principal
topics would require, but. I Irish to keep m mind the main eon-
sideratiim. The attachinnneand affection of the people of Ire=
land ought to ee preserved, by sour strewing the utmost care-
that you are not disposed to negleet their interest-that you are
not disposed to punish crime in that country by a di erent mea-
sure from what you would punish it in Englasid, and that you are
willing to take into your serious consideration the many
grievances of the Irish people; and here. ath6ugh I do not
eish to enter into a party discussion I cannot but express my
regret at the course of the present Government. Even when
they had the best intentions, ..t had not been such as to inspire
in Ireland confidence in your juatice and respect to your policy.
The time when tranquillity prevaite t had been allowed to go
by. When the present Governme .t came into office, they
found contentment .and tranquillity prevailing in Ireland, but
they waited until agitation arose-until compla.nts and remon-
strances were made to them, befere they proposed to redress
some of the grievances which pressed upon that country. But
I hope, throwing aside the desire to conciliate the Catholic
clergy on the one f and, or tonermieate agitation on the other,
they vain seriously consider what were the promises made
by this and the other Houses of Patliament at the
time of the union edeteed by 'elle Pet, and acquiesced
in by both Heuses of Parha eon, ; th .t they will look to and
see wherever these promises have h. en kept, and if they have
not been kept, fulfil them et once, riot in the way of cosces-
sions, but simile as the fulfilment of an act of justice.
air. SIDNEY HERBERT apeke a sew words aitross the
table in explanation. which did rant reach the gallery.
Mr. H. BRIDGEM AN centrarlicted the statement that:had
been made with respect to a Mr. Wilson.
Air. KELLY said he could nut give a silent vote against a
measure which cast se much indignity upon hie naive land.
Within the last fe-st nnabta he had heard from lion. Members
on the other side of the House e xpressions of sympathy and con-
dolence with the state of their native country, caused by the
diseaee, he might say almost by the total decay, of that rem
which constl wed the food of the maj ,rity of his fellow-coun-
trymen. He had heard so many speeches. from all sides
of the House, but mere particularly from the flight
Honourable Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home
Department, and the Right lion. Gentleman the First Lord
of the Treasury. advocating the necessity of giving employ-
ment to his suffering fellow-countra men, that he had been in-
duced to put a question to himself, and to ask, can the charge
which he hail so frequently heard, that these parties were im-
bued with a hostile spirit towards his country. be trite ? Could
this be the House nl Commons which he had so frequently
heard charged with a total inattention to Irish interests and
Irish measures? Could tLis be that portion of the Imperial
Legislature which he had heard was deaf to the cry of suffee-
ing humanity ? Surely, he said to himself, the individuals who
made these ch ‘rgtss must have been labouring under some mis-
take. But when the Right lion. Gentleman, the Secretary
of State, introdueecd this Bill, he found that he had not insert
deceived by his informers. It would have been better had the
Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment, aad the Rioht Honourable Gentleman the First,
Lord of the Treasury, delayed expressing their sympathy
and condolence with Ireland till after the first read-
ing of this Bill, which insulted and branded this
country with the charge of being assassins and murderers.
He found that in exchange for the abundant supply of corn
and other agricultural produce which England received from
Ireland, the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for
the Home Department was about to give the people of his
native country muskets, c trbinea, and cartridges-( Hear,
hear)-and that he was also about to give them an armed
soldiery, a licentious and insolent police force.-( Hear. hear.)
Those were the means by which the Right Hon. Baronet
was anxious to promote confidence between the two countries.
-( Hear, hear.) This measure was one of those by which
that. Right Hon. Gentleman expected to prop up that totter-
ing fabric the legislative Act of Union-( Hear, hear)-but
he would tell that Right Hon. Gentleman that he was very
much mistaken-( Hear, hear)-and that this measure would
only have the effect of destrnyine that ruinous fabric at a
more speedy rate.--; Hear, hear.) He must say that he was
very much surprised that when this measure was first introduced
the whole of the English Members did not rise up in a body
and protest against it-( Hear, hear)-as heieg calculated to
militate against their sense of justice, and their notion of free
institutions.-(Herr, hear)-He objected to this Bill, because
if it were carried into a law it would completely subvert and
destroy all constitutional law in Ireland.-( Hear, hear.) He
also objected to it because, in his opinion-and he was sure in
the opinion of every man who surrounded him-the Right linn.
Baronet had not made out a sufficient case to autherise that
House to pass such an unconstitutional measure.-( Hear.)
He objected to it on the same ground that Hon. Gentlemen
would do to a similar Bill introduced by the Right
lion. Baronet for the purpose of outlawing the people of
England.-( Hear, hear.) But he would not bring forward
such a measure for England on such grounds as he had adduced
on the intro tuition for this oppressive measure towards Ireland,
because the Hon. Members of that House would meet it with
one shout. of execration -( Cheers) -and he knew very well
that the Irish Members would he amongst the first to join in
that shout.-( Cheers.) He objected to this measure hecau-e
it had not been sufficiently ; roved by the Right Hon. Baronet
or his colleagues that the laws at present in force in Ireland,
if carried out with justice, were net stiffic:ent to meet the
present emergency.-( Hear hear.) He regr stted that he
was obliged to admit some of the statements that had been made
as to the present state of crime in Ireland were something Ike
the truth, but the great majority of the statements had been
greatly exaggerated.-(Hear, hear.) What would the Right
Ann. Baronet or the House say of that law which permitted
the late dreadful tragedy at Alullingar? An individual was
put upon his trial ; the jury on that trial disagreed
and what was the course pursued by the Government? Why,
that unfortunate individual, after having been once discharged,
was again put upon his trial for the same offence, under the
same commission.-( Hear, hear.) in empannelling the jury
who tried that unfortunate individual, thus put upon his second
trial, the officers of the Crown challenged and struck off three
of the most respectable men in that diserict.-( Cheers.) One
of them, he would fearlessly say, was the most respectable
man in that part of the country. Hear, hear.) Anti what
objection had the officers of the Crown aeainst the three gen-
tlemen whom they had thus struck off the jury fist ? Merely
this, that they were Members of the Roman Catholic religion.
-(Hear, hear.) Gracious God ! Were they living in the
nineteenth century, or in the blo ely days of Elizabeth and
Mary ?-( Hear. hone ) Was the R g t lion. Baronet arid
his colleagues about to renew the dismal scenes of religious
tyranny and persecution ?-( Cheers.) If this Bill were passed
into a law, he would net be ie the slightest degree surprised if
the Right Hon. Baronet and his colleagu -I were to have posted
on every jury box in Ireland sue)) a placard as had been posted
on the gates of Bandon--. Turk, Jew, or Atheist may enter
here. but not a Papist.”-(Hear, hear ) lie objected to this
Bill, because there had not been sulflitient proofs adduced by
the Right. Hon. Baronet of the alleged csime iu Ireland to
justify such an unconstitutional measure. If proper commis-
sions had been instituted in the counties that were disturbed,
they would have been sufficient to suppress crime to a great
degree. To justify the Right Hen. Baronet in bringing for-
went such a measure, he ought to have male out a stronger
case. He objected to this measure, because it had been
brought forward without any accompanying remedial mea-
sures.-( Hear, hear ) It would al o give an arbitrary power
to the underlings of the Government. The Right Hon.
Baronet had come forward, and stated a long list of crimes avid
outrages which had occurred in Ireland, hut the conduct of the
Government on previous occasion; had afforded an evil example
to the people ief Ireland. The Government themselves had,
on a recent memorable occasion, themselves violated the law,
and how could they expect the people to be punctual in the
observance of them ? Yes, in spite of what had been
said by the Right Honourable Bar 'net in reference
to the Law Lords, every honest man must say that the Hon.
and Learned Member for Cork hod not had a fair trial.-
(Cheers ) Why did not the Bight Hon. Baronet, instead of
bringing forward the present measure, restore to the commis
sion of the peace those magistrates whom he had supersede:l,
merely because they made tnernselves conspicuous iu the agita-
tion for the repeal of a certain Act of Parliament ?-( Hear,
hear. ) The Irish Members should oppose the measure, be-
eause it would destroy even the little tranquillity that yet re-
mained in Ireland. Those Hon. Members who opposed this
measure were, of course, quite as anxious as the Right Hon.
Baronet could be to preserve the peace of Ireland.-( Hear.
hear.) Their effectioes, their families, their properties, and
their nearest and dearest ties were connected with the green
isle.--( Cheers.) And they, of course, could not for their own
interests' sake be -the men to oppose any measure that might
have a tendency, to further the peace and prosperity of their
native land. -( Hear. hear.) Under all these circumstances he
'could most cheerfully support the amendment of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Cork.-( Cheers. )
Mr K. SEYNIOUR challenged the Hon. Member who bed
just sat down, to quote a county in England were murders were
committed in the noonday as they were in Ireland ; and if he
could do so, he t Seyrneur) would not have the slightest
objection to a Bill being introduced for the better protection of
lite in England.-( Hear, hear.) OI 1;30 persons that had
been charged with the horrid .crime of murder in Ireland
during the last year, only eight suffered the extreme penalty
he law, which showed that there must be something wrong
in the carrying out of the law relating to murder in Ireland.
The great difficulties in Ireland ene the large amount
of crime, and the indispestion of juries to convict. He
thought it might be as well to suspend the trial by jury in
the disturbed districts. Toe Hon. Member then referred to
the case of Bryan Seery, and c ate mented upon the conduct
of a certain Roman Catholic clergyman, who had sent a letter
to one of the Irish tapers, to the effect that he was
innocent. He then proceeded to read an account
of the burial of Bryan Seery, which appeared
in the Freeman's Journ:ll-6 journal edited by Dr. Gray. and
headed the .• Mullingar Tragedy." He considered that the
conduct of the repeaters was a strange anomaly. Their society
was called a loyal" one-their ball, a Conciliation Hall ;"
and it was in this hall that the orators of the loyal association
harangued the people inter a state of discontent and howility,
and then deputed an officer. called the •• Hea i Pacificator," to
allay the disturbances. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by
expressing a hope that he had not been offensive to any gentle-
man in giving utterance to his ()pintoes.
Mr. P. S BUTLER said that he should occupy the atten-
tion of the Howe but a very lew moments, oh Ist he would
lay beitire them a few observations which occurred to him
daring the course of th's cehate, and he should endeavour to
adhere to the sound principles of corn eon sense, which he
had ever found to have some influent-it with a British audience,
and he would say that any opposition which he would feel
himself called upon to give the present Bill, would not be
grounded on the fact that the proposed measure was opposed
to that first principles of the constitution, and was unfriendly to
those principles of liberty to which they were all attached,. -
( Hear, hear ) He had no hesitation in declaring that if it
was proposed to suspend the habeas corpus Act, and institute
domiciliary visits-that, if he considered such a violation
of the constitution likely to produce a diminution of
critne, such a proposition would have his cordial support.
He would relate an anecdote to the House which would illus-
trate the treatment which the peasantry often received. There
was a Nobleman, whom it was not necessary to name, who had
a large property in the county of Kilkenuy. That property
fell out of lease, and the lease was dependent on a single life,
after which the property reverted to a nephew. The tenants
were comfortable and happy--occupying a station much higher
there, and being of a superior class to those whose case was
brought under the notice of the He. use by the Hon. Member
for l.imerick. The tenants were resolved to go over
to London to see their landlord, who was then residing
there, ' but an agent residing in the neighbourhood
desired them to entrust their case with him. He
went over - got the lease for himself - came home and
turned out the tenantry. That gentleman was murdered
soon after as he was returning home one night.
Six men were found guilty, and were executed for that mur-
d..r. Now, what was the result of that grand display ? Within
three months 01 that occasion, the nephew of that person was
murdered within a quarter of a belle of the place of execution.
He (Mr. B.) found that this Secretary of State for the Home
Department, in a speeeh very different in its tone from what
was usually made by any member of the Government
with regard to Ireland, said that the measure
was brought forward with the best possible intentions. The
Right lion. Gentleman also alluded to some former measures-
to the Maynooth grant, to the Arms Bill, to the Colleges Bill,
and other measures-but when detailing these, he totally forgot
the other side of the question. lie forgot to mention whit the
Government had omitted to do. He forgot to mention that 74
magistrates had been disintsed from the commission of the peace,
the mist popular, the most efileient, anti the most able of tt e
magistracy of Ireland. lie ( Mr. Butler) himself was among
the number, and he regretted ibis summary' and unions
tutional proceeding, for to the want of their efficient exertions,
and to the leant of confidence in the administration of justice

with which this est instnrQd the people, Might ittri nted
many of those crime and outrages which were enumerated
in the statement of the Right Honourable Baronet. He
also forgot to apologise to the Gentlemen of this House who
were so unjustifiably and harshly treated by the Government.
He meant the Hon. Member for Cork and the Hon. Member
for Kilkenny. He had not gives even an apology to those
Gentlemen fur that treatment. The Hon. Gentleman the
:Member for Dorsetshire made a quotatic n from the Nation
newspaper, but neither that paper nor the F reeman's
Journal represented the opinions of any Gentleman
whine saw around him. The public press was
as liable to give expressions to erroneous opinions
as the representatives of the people were. If he wanted a
proof on this side of the Channel of this assertion, he would
allude to a paper that had a large circulation in England, and
over Europe. In that newspaper he fund such expressions
as " surpliced ruffians" and a " demon priesthood" applied to
the Catholic priesthood of I. eland, who, he could testify from
his own knowledge, were a body of men distinguished for the
practice of every Christian virtue. In a paper pub'ished in
Ireland a few weeks ago there was a comparative statement
of the relative amount of crime it, England and I•eland.
He found that in a report of crime in England for 1833, the
murders were great, and generally committed on women and
eeildren. There were many ea es which, if he were act ua'ed
by vindictive feelings, he might quote; bet he would not do se,
fearful that it might be so construed. He found it stated
in the Times newspaper, that life in this cuun'ry was
less safe than in the worst states on the Continent,
'or even in China. This, then, being the case, what was the
contrast with the state of crone in Ireland, where starvation
was at the door of the peasant.—( Hear. hear.) It was stated
in the journal of the world, the Times newspaper. that I.fe in
this country was on the same scale as in Lacedse coma and
China.—( Hear.) The Bill ',reposed by the Government
would tot put down crime in Ireland ; if it would, be would
support it, but that trot being the case, he would offer the
measure of her Majesty's Ministers his most decided opposition.
Mr. R. A. FI I'ZGERALD was of opinion that the Bill
before the House would, instead of putting down crime in Ire-
land, but exasperate the people. In fct the landlords of the
north of Tipperary looked upon the tenants on their estates as
so many machines by which money was to be made fbr them ;
and they did not think that nature es, r intended them for
anything else, or that they were bound to look
upon them in any other light. But when the tenant
appealed to the landlord, he found no • _protector in him
Now, was it not singular that such a state of things should
be permitted to exist at this period, when civilisation had at-
tained so high a pitch. It was really too bad, that a country
so blessed by God should be so cursed by man ; and how to
account for such a state of things was utterly impossible.
The reign of Elizabeth was certaiely a most glorious one for
England, but a most disastrous one for Ireland. The Govern.-
ment of the day, to advance their own interests, had their emis-
saries everywhere, who represented the merest conversations
of the people as treasonable; and the consequence was, that
their lands were declared forfeited, and the proprietor of a
tract to-day might, in a few days atter, be a serf
or a labourer on the same tract.—(Bear, bear. )
Under the Whig Government, the people of Ireland improved
rapidly in their conoition and morals. The judges in nearly
every county in Ireland congratulated the grand juries on the
very much decreased state, and in some cases on the tots.
absence, of crime, and could there be any doubt that these
things were caused by an altered Administration which
attended more to the condition of the people of Ireland?
This was the state of things in Ireland. The people had no
confidence in the administration of the law. He opposed the pre-
sent Bill, because he did not believe it would realise the end that
was sought to be obtained. He had recently read some remarks
in a journal that had great influence, and was well known
throughout the civilised world, with which he entirely con
curred. The Times said the great evil of Ireland was the want
of sympathy with the administration of justice.—(Hear,
hear.) That struck him at the time, as a true picture
of the state of the country. The people wanted confidence in
the conduct of the English Government, and that was the
reason why seven millions of people in Ireland had banded
together to effect the repeal of the union between the two
countries. The real cause why those who acted with the
Hon. and Learned Member for Cork opposed the present
measure was, that it would not effect the object sought. He
hoped, therefore, that Hon. Members on the other side of the
House would see the propriety of the union, and see the wis-
dom and propriety of taking the same view of the question.
In the vote he should give upon this question he should not be
actuated by any personal motive whatever. If Honour-
able Members on the other side of the House would
consult their own judgment they would not altogether depend
on the opinions of the only two Irish Members on that side;
they would consider the circumstances of Ireland more, and
endeavour to do justice to that unhappy country.
On the motion of 11r. CARE W, the debate was adjourned.
RAILWAY DEPOSITS BILL.

This Bill went through Committee. Report on Monday.
The orders of the day were then (imposed of, and the House
liourned at a Quarter past One o'clock.

rAiILIANI LN TA it -1 BUSINES:;L
(From the Votes and Proceedings of
the House of Commons.
FRIDAY, AMID. 3.
The following Petitions for Railway Bills were reported,
and the Bills ordered to be brought in by the undernatned
Hon. Members:—
London and Birmingham (Weedon and Northampton
Branch)—Colonel Anson and Mr. Currie.
Oldham, Manchester, Liverpool, wal Birkenhead Junction—
Mr J. Fielden and Mr. Brotherton.
Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton—General Lygon,
Mr. Pskington, and Lord 11. Hill.
Scottish Central and Caledonian Junction—Mr. Forbes, Mr.
W. Baillie, and Mr. Bonverie.
Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne, and Manchester (Whaley
Bridge, and Hayfield Branc:tes)—Mr. Parker, Mr. Bro-
thert ,n, and Mr. Buckley.
Portbury Pier and Railway—Mr. W. Miles and Mr. H.
Berkeley.

Public Houses (Scotland)—Committoe nominated:—Thp
Lord Advocate, Mr. Fox Manic, Mr. Home Drummond, Mr.
Cripps, Lord Dalmeny, Mr. Forbes, Mr. Bannerman, Mr.
Francis Scott, Mr. Duncan, Sir John Hope. Mr. P4mlett
Scropc, Mr. Stuart Wortley, ➢lr. Richard Hodgson, Viscount
Dune" and Mr. Forbes Mackenzie.

STANDING ORDERS' COMMITTEE.
The following Resolutions were reported 'rum the above
Committee :-
1. 'that, in the case of the Oxford, Witney, Cheltenham,
and Gloucester Railway petition, the standing orders ought
not to be dispensed with.
2. That, in the case of the Paisley, l3arrhead, and /Jurist
Railway petition, the standing orders ought not to be dis-
pensed with.
3. Th.it, in the case of the Hamilton and Strathaven Rail-
way petition, the standing orders ought not to be dispensed

1411•
4. That, in the case of the Wilts, Somerset, and Wey-
mouth Railway petition, the standing orders ought to be dis-
pensed with:—That the rallies be permitted to pi oceed with
their Bill on correcting the errrors on the sections; and that
the Committee on the Bill de examine, in the .fret place, how
far such order has been complied with, and do report the
same to the House on the report of the Bill.
Fourth resolution agreed to.—Report to lie on the table.

SECOND READINGS OF RAILWAY BILLS.
MONDAY, APRIL G.
Inverness and Elgin Junction.
•
Dunblaire' Donne, arid Callander.
Hull and Lincoln Direct.
East and West India Docks and Birmingham Junction
Railway (by order).
London avid Windsor (by order).
TUESDAY, APRIL 7.
Cameron's Coalbrook Steam Coal and Swansea and Loughor.

RAILWAY SR MARKETS
BRISTOL, Aram 3.
STOCK Exenartox.—The sales are--Birmingham and Gloucester,
125- Ditto, Quarter Shares (issued 7% dis.), 31—Midland, New,
2114 -Noith Staffordshire, l —Soutli Devon, 321A—Taff Vale, New
Quarter Shares, 1 ork and North Midland Extension, 31 % -
SHEFFIELD, APRIL 3

STOCK Excusifoc-The sales are Midland, Sheffield and Ro-
aerham, 34-Sheffield, Buxton, Leek, Potteries, and Crewe, I Is.
MANCHESTER, Aram 3.
STOCK EXCIIANOE.-The sales are-Birkenhead, Lancashire, and
Cheshire, 13.16 p. - Blackburn, Darwen, and Bolton, 114 die.-
Derby and Crewe, 1 1-16 p.-East Coast, 114 dis.-East Lancashire,
No. I, 14 p. /fo. 2, % p.-Essex and Suffolk, I die. c.-
Fleetwood, Preston, and West Riding, % dis.- Huddersfield and
Manchester Railway and Canal, 1 dis.- Lancashire and North York-
shire, dis.-Leeds, Dewsbury, and Manchester, 1 p.-Liverfol
and' Leeds Direct, 14 die.-Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston, % p.-
Liverpool, Preston, Manchester, and Stockport, dis.-Liverpool,
Warwick, Manchester, and Southport, 21s. dis.-Lontlon and Man-
chester (Rem.), 38s. 9d. ,lis.-Manchester, Buxton, and 'Matlock, par
-Manchester and Birmingham, 7514---Ditto, Quarters (11), G p.
- Ditto, Quarters (C), 534 p.-Manchester end Leeds, Fifths, t 3 p.
- Northumberland and Lancashire, 255. ful. dis.-North Eastern, 1%
die. c.-North Staffordshire, 1 9- 6 p. - Preston and Wyre, Halves
(B), Gs. 6d. p.-Ditto, Extension, y dis. - Sheffield and Lincoln-
shire Junction, 14 dis. -Sheffield and Manchester, Quarters No. 3,
Is. 6d. die. -South Eastern and Dover, 34 -Ditto, Halves No. 4,
5-16 dis.-Trent Valley Continuation and Holyhead Junction, J dis.
-West Riding Union, 1% p. •
LEEDS, APRIL 3.
STOCK ExcnANGE. - The sales are-- Eastern Counties, 20%-Ditto,
York Extension, 10s. p.-York and North Midland, East and West
Riding, 714 p.-Great Grimsby ant Sheffield, 70s. dis. - Builders-
-11,11 and lattehester, ss. dis. - Huddersfield and Sheffield, 2% p. -
Leeds and Bradford, 21 I.eede and Dewsbury, 114 p.- Leeds and
Thirek,_7os. die -Ditto, New, 645. die. Newcastle and lierwi At, 7p.
- Goole and Doncaster, 7s. Gd. dis. - London and York, ans. dis.-Li-
verpool, Ormskirk, and Preston. 15s. p.-West Riding Union. 3/. 35.-
Ambergate, Nottinghatn, and Boston, 255. dis.-Bradford Wakefield,
and Midland, 22e. 6d. dis. -Essex and Suffolk, 19s. Gd -Grand
Uniol, 17s. 6J. (Vs.-Leeds and Liverpool Direct, 7s. Gd. dis.-
Northumberland and Lancashire Junction,dis.-Nortit Stafford-
shire, 11. 14s. 6d.-North Western, 3s. 6d. dis.---South 311diends,
4s. dis.

NULL, AM', 3.
STOCK EXCHANGE.--A great quantity of London and York shares
was thrown on the market to-day, and it was with great difficulty
sales could ho effected at 245. ; prices generally range lower. The
sales are—iludderstleld and Sheffield Junction, 10s.--North 13r1-
Usti Carlisle, 32e 6d.—Ambergate, Nottingham, Boston, &c, 114
—Armagh Coleraine, and Portrush 10s. 6d.—Boston, Newark, at d
shetlirld, 245. East Lincolnshire, 18s. 641. —Grand Union, 9s. Gd.
Hull and Barnsley Junction. 23s Gd. - North Staffordshite, 3/. Os.
—Rugby and Huntingdon, 15s. rA.