The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-02 00:00:00

any man to conceive one plan which is more tyrannical
mete eteter eteetetee Lo ut ...a u,-
rl.ngemera more destructive to British shipping, it is that
plan, which, without benefiting the shipowner or the men
he employs, exposes him at some uncertain moment to all
these intlictionr.—(llear.) I have referred to the opinion
of Sir J. Stirling :—another authority whom we often
hear quoted in this House, Mr. M`Julloch, says that he
believes it would coat less if the navy were made altoge-
ther independent of the merchaiit•service, artd he adds
he believes there are many naval men who consider
that the time is coming when you must, for your own
safety, free the navy from the obligation to press men
out of the merchant service; and that, under proper ar-
rangements, this might be done with economy to the
State. I believe there 'are many unnecessary expenses
attached to the naval department which ought to be put
down. It is also my opinion that the wors'-treated and
worst dealt with class of the Queen's subjects are the
seamen.—(Hear, hear.) What do you really do for
them ? You profess to protect them: but you have not
prevented the prevalence of great distress from time to
time among both sailors and shipownere. Though
the country professes to have at heart the interest of
the sailor, and claims the right to take him from the
service in which he obtains the highest amount of wages
at any moment, what have you ever done for his advan-
tage? Should the sailor fall into poverty and want in
consequence of the uncertain state of employment, what
have you done for him more than for other paupers ?
If you take the practical operations of the statutes you
have passed—as the Merchant Seamen's Fund—are they
worth a fig to him? If employment fail, and he fall
into distress, perhaps, if he is lucky, he may get a
pauper allowance.—(Hear, hear.) This is all you have
done for him, and yet you claim the right to call your-
selves the sailors' friends and the shipowner.' friends,
while you expose them to the evils I have alluded to. I
will not say a word in disparagement of the shipowners,
or of the masters or mates, in the course they have taken
on this question—l can forgive men for being uneasy
when they think it possible that their pecuniary inte-
rests may be affected—(Hear)—but I will not consent to
allow in Parliament the voice of justice, reason, and good
policy, to be drowned by the clamour of any class what-
ever.—(Cheers, and " Oh, oh.") We must discuss this
question with a view to the general interests of the
British empire, and must not be deterred from doing
what is right by the fears and apprehensions of any
party.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord asked where
was the clamour and where the petition in favour of the
proposed change. I should much regret if it was to be
understood that Parliament was never to carry any
measure except forced to it by clamour.—(Opposition
cheers, and Ministerial counter cheers.) It must be a
subject of great regret to every friend of his country to
think that we have a Parliament—if it be as the Noble
Lord says—which it is in vain to appeal to unless the
appeal be backed by clamour and threats.—(Hear, hear.)
But this at least is a subject in which we are not backed
by clamour. Here we want reason and dispassionate
consideration, not olamour,—(Hear, hear.) And when
gentlemen lay such stress on power, glory, and such
things, I must tell them that they are not acting in ac-
cordance with the spirit of the times.—(Hear and laugh-
ter.) The spirit of the times is commerce—the spirit of
the times is industry—(Hear, hear)—it is internal im-
provement—(Hear, hear)—it is mechanical invention—
(Hear, hear)—it is, if you will, political economy.—
(Opposition cheers, met by counter cheers from the Mi-
nisterial benches.) It is not war—(Hear, hear)—it is
not clamour—(Hear, hear)— it is peaceful relations,
peaceful progress, and amicable feeling among all the
nations of the earth.—(Cheering.) If you wish to act
in conformity with the spirit of the times, you must abo-
lish those antiquated notions by which you have been so
tong influenced. Let the ships of all the nations of the
world bring the produce of the world from every place
—(Hear, hear)—exclude none.--(Hear, hear.) Do this,
and you will carry out a policy beneficial to your in-
dustry, bensficial to your manufactures, beneficial to
your shipping interest, and to all classes of your fellow-
countrymen; do this, and you will add strength to your
peaceful relations with foreign powers, and, by setting
the example of a vast, generous, and enlightened com-
mercial policy, you will be raising the character of
England amongst the nations of the world.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HENLEY said that if ho could gather anything
from the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke
last, it was that the general interests of the country
ought to be made subservient to a sordid spirit of gain
—(Wear, hear)—that, in fact, for the gain of half a
farthing additional every relation of honour, of inde-
pendence, and of national security, should give way.—
(Hear, hear.) It was easy to clothe a bad sentiment in
good language, and to talk of general advantage, when
the advantage of a particular class only was intended.—
(Hear, hear.) 'l'he Hon. Gentleman spoke of the ener-
vating
influence of the navigation-laws depressing the
raw material ; by which ho (Mr. Henley) supposed the
Right Hon. Gentleman meant lowering the price.—
(Hear, hear.) If the Right Hon. Gentleman had not
withdrawn from the Government, he would not have
attempted what no Minister ever yet attempted to do
—to separate the commercial marine from the naval
force of the country. Our mercantile marine had
advanced almost progressively in an extraordinary
degree, and had supplied us with seamen when-
ever they were wanted. He could not understand,
therefore, why the Right Hon. Gentleman looked upon
them as injurious in their effect upon our navy. He
complained, too, of their being a great clamour raised in
fevour of seamen. Now, of all the interests in the
country, he believed there was none, considering its ex-
tent and consequences, that was now, or had at any time
been so weakly represented as the shipping interest,
i which, n some sense, was part of the commercial inte-
rest. lie was not disposed to rest this question upon
the ground of competition ; for, after all, it was a matter
of opinion. Wo had vast possessions in every part of
the world, and he considered it necessary not only that
we should be on an equal footing with the rest of the
world, but that we should have a naval supremacy.—
(Hear, hear.) Once lose that supremacy, and the
strength of the British empire was gone. The great
mass of our empire was composed of scattered parts ;
arid if we were to have them knit together by the ocean,
we must maintain the supremacy of the ocean. Com-
petition would not do all that was required. The Right
ion. Gentleman said we must become one nation by
means of free trade. If so, why did he not begin with his
own constituents and remove protection from Manchester,
cottons? And here he must take leave to defend a most
deserving class of men, the merchant seamen, from the
groundless attacks that had been got up against them in
true Chadwick style by various officials, and made be-
hind their backs. A paid servant of the Brish crown,
holding a high position in the Foreign-office, writes to
70, out of 215 British consuls, saying he "is particu-
larly desirous of gaining information of the incompe-
tency of British shipmasters." That was certainly a
very fishing question, to say the least of it. He also
demanded to be informed " of their want of sobriety."
It was very easy to see what influence a letter, such as
that coming from the Foreign-office, would have upon a
consul. But the evidence as reported by the Committee
on the navigation-laws was so full of contradictions, even
by the same men, that he would not hang a dog on it.
The first witness was the consul of St. Petersburgh, and
ho spoke favourably of thosemen. But Mr. Crow, another
consul, said that they were the most igcorant, illiterate,
and brutal set he had ever seen in a civilised nation. That
was pretty well for a man speaking of his own countrymen.
Then Mr. Consul Baker, at Riga, in answer to the same
circular letter of Mr. Murray of the Foreign-office, had
written very much in the same strain; but he had taken
a most extraordinary course. The House would observe
that in this debate almost every Hon. Member who had
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Now Mr. Baker, being consul at Riga, spoke most dis-
paragingly of the merchant captains, but relied not on
his ownobservations, and therefore unclosed in his reply
that which he called a most interesting document, refer-
ring to the character and conduct of the British ship-
masters. And what was that interesting document so
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only to do with shipmasters engaged in the long trade,
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whereas Mr. Baker had only to deal with the east coast
traders, and yet he sends a document which ap-
plied to a totally different class. There was an-
other remarkable piece of evidence in the letters of
Mr. Cumberbatch, the consul at Constantinople, for
that gentleman had written two letters. In his first,
dated the 30th November, 1843, he declared that the
masters and men of the ships conning there from London
and Liverpool were of a superior class, and that acts of
misconduct were less frequent among them than they
were on board other vessels. But, in a subsequent let-
ter, dated 3d November, 1847, Mr. Cumberbatch states,
that " he finds the vessels from the outports better com-
manded anti manned than those from the larger ports."
Thus he directly contradicted himself in a matter of fact,
and, therefore, tie (Mr. Henley) asked what confidence
could be placed in such evidence, from men who thus
took away the character of others behind their backs ?
But it was stated that the ships insured in clubs were
north country ships, and were commanded by illiterate,
ignorant, and brutal mere Now the fact was, that the
ships insured in clubs were commanded by men of supe-
rior character and respectability, because the clubs, be-
ing constituted of mutual assurers, every member was
careful of the sort of men he employed. Again, all that
had been stated in the correspondence front Rio Janeiro
about the want of skill and activity alleged on
anonymous authority against the English captains fell
to the ground, because that duty was regulated not by
the captains, but by the brokers and agents there. Mr.
Goodwin, the consul at Palermo, and the gentleman
who was consul at St. Michael's, had made similar
statements, wholly at variance with each other. And it
was on such evidence that the House was asked to revise
the navigation-laws. In short, all these gentlemen, in-
cluding Mr. Liddel, the consul at Norway, and others
had furnished evidence of so coetradietory a character,
that, lie repeated, it was not fit to hang a dog upon. If
the protection to the commercial marine was withdrawn
he maintained that the nation would suffer an irrepa-
rable injury. Ile reminded the House, that if they re-
pealed the navigation laws they would not be able to re-
trace their steps, and he conceived that not merely the
interests, but the honour, the greatness, and the inde-
pendence of this country could only be secured by the
maintenance of her naval supremacy.—(Hear, hear.)
On the motion of Lord INGESTRE, the debate was
then adjourned until to-morrow (this day).
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
Lord MORPETH proposed to proceed with the
further consideration of the report on the Fublic Health
Bill, but
The Earl of LINCOLN objected not only on account
of the lateness of the hour (half-past twelve o'clock),
but also on the ground that the amended Bill had only
reached the hands of Members that day; so that it was
impossible to enter upon the discussion of the amend-
ments.
Lord MORPETH consented to postpone the further
proceeding with the Bill until Monday next.
METROPOLIS POLICE BILL.
Sir C. LEWIS moved the second reading of this Bill,