The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-24 00:00:00

provision is to be made for the shortening of borough elections?
Sir R. PEEL said it was the intention of the Government
to limit them to one day.
Mr. OR SMBY GORE presented a petition from the county
of Afongomery against the Government measures.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE ON THE CORN IM-
PORTATION BILL.
Lord POLLINGTON rose, and was
(LEST SPEARING.)

THE LONDON GAZETTF

(THIS EVENING.)

Commissions by the Lord-Lieutenant of Devonshire.
The Right Hon. C. it. Lord Clinton, to be Deputy Lieutenant,
Dec. 27, 1845; J. Siinfant, Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant, Jan. 17.
East Devon Regiment of 111ilitia—F. B. Short, Esq., to be Cap-
tain ; G. Fursdon, Esq., to be Captain ; C. Rumley, Gent., to be
Lieutenant ; I'. C. Lipyeatt, Gent., to be Eleutenant, Jan. 13 ; W.
D. Band, Gent., to be Lieutenant, Jan. 26 ; C. S. Ellicombe, Gent.,
to be Ensign, Jan. 13; F. G. Young, Gent., to be Ensign, Jan. 26.
First Devon Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry-J. Garrett, jun.,
Esq., to be Captain ; W. Barnes, Gent., to be Lieutenant ; E. Trood,
Gent., to be Lieutenant, Dec. 24.
Commission by the Queen.
Berwickshire Militia - Captain J. Cox, front the 92(1 Highlanders,
to be Adjutant, vice Captain A. D. M`Laren, placed upon the Retired
List, Feb. 16.

Commission by the Lord-Lieutenant of Lancashire.
First Regiment of the Duke of Lancaster's Own Militia—Captain
G. (trod, to Le Major, vice North, resigned, March 19
Third Regiment of the Duke of Lancaster's Own Militia—E. Lister,
Gent., to be Lieutenant; March 18; E. C. Moore, Gent., to be Lieute-
nant, March 19 ; H. It. Clarke, Gert., to be Lieutenant, March 20 ;
J. E. errell, Gent., to be Lieutenant, March 21 ; J. German, Gent.,
to he Lieutenant, March 22 ; J. Worthington, Gent., to be Ensign,
March 21 ; N. Gardiner, Gent., to be Ensign, March 22.
Commissions ty the Lord Lieutenant of the Count, of Glamorgan.
To be Deputy Lieutenants: —C. Bailey, Esq.; It. Fothergill, Esq. ;
W. Llewellyn, Esq. ; E. Morgan, Esq. ; W. Thomas, Esq, ; G. Tur-
bervill, Esq., March 10.

Royal Glamorgan Light Infantry Battalion of 31111tia—T. Fitz-
gerald, Gent., to be First Lieut., Feb. 17 ; T. Place, Gent., to be
First Lieut , Feb. 23; M. W. Harris. Gent., to to First Lieut., Feb.
25 ; 11. A. Goldfinch, Gent., to be First Lieut., Feb. 27 ; W. Lewis,
Gent., to be Second Lieut., Feb. 28.
Commission by the Lord-Lieutenant of Hereford—W. 13arneby, Esq.,
to be Deputy Lieutenant; It. M`Murdo, Esq., to be Deputy Lieute-
nant; T. W. Lane, jun., Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant ; W. N.
Kyrie, Clerk, to be Deputy Liutenant, March 19.
lleretord Regiment of Militia—lt. B. It. 3lyrtors, Esq., to he Cap-
tain, vice WaLhanr, promoted, March 19.

Commissions by the Lord-Lieutenant of Southampton.
W. 11. Hughes, Esq., to be Deputy-i ieutenant; D. I'. Cunyng-
ham, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant, March 6.
North Hants Yeomanry Cavalry—J. Rivers, Gent., to be Lieu-
tenant; E. D. Allen, Gent., to be Cornet, March 6.
Commissions by the Lot] Lieutenant of Aberdeen.
J. Duff, Esq., M.P., to be Deputy Lieutenant ; A. D. Fordyce,
Esq., to Le Deputy Lieutenant; J. M. Leslie, Esq , to be Deputy
Lieutenant, Jan. 26.

Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of Suffolk.
Western Regiment of Suffolk 31ilitia—The tight Hoa. F. W.
rle.vey, commonly called Earl Jerilyn, to be Colonel, vice the Earl
of Euston, resigned, March 20.
Commissions by the Lord-Lieutenant of Wilts.
Royal Wiltshire Regiment of Militia—W. Long, the younger, G' nt.,
to be Lieutenant, March 15. G. Gould, Gent., to be Lieutenant,
March 16. E. H. Mortimer, Gent., to be Lieutenant, March 17. G.
H. Goddard, Gent., to be Ensign, March 15.
Commissioned by the Lord Lieutenant of Forfarshire.
Forfar and Kincardine Regiment of Militia.—T. Scott. gent. to be
Lieutenant; W. I'. Scott, gent. to be Lieutenant ; G. Lyeli, gent. to
be Ensign, Feb. /7.

Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of Perthshire.
Royal Perthshire Militia—J. D. M'Gregor, Gent., to be Lieutenant,
vice A. Stewart, deceased, March 18.
Erratum in the Gazette of the 10th inst.
Prince Albert's Own Leicestershire Yeomanry Cavalry--For T. J.
Paris, Gent., to be Cornet, &c., read T. J. Pares, Gent., to be Ccr-
nut, &c.

BANKRUPTS.
James Giro, merchant, Moorgate-street, City, to surrender April 6,
at half-past eleven, and May 5, at twelve, at the Court of Bank.
ruptcy. Alsagtr, official assignee, Birchin-lace, Cornhill ;
Great Win( pester-street.

Charles Henry Waters, dealer in paintings, Queen's-row, Pimlico,
March 31, at half-past one, and Slay 5, at eleven, at the Court of
Bankruptcy. Whitmore, otilcial assignee, Basinghall.strect ; Bur-
bidge, Hatton-garden.

Joseph 'nonlpsol4 grocer, Norwich, April 7 and May 5, at one,
at the Court of Bankruptcy. Pennell, official assignee; Gillman,
Norwich; Storey, Gray's Inn-place, Londe n.
William Morphew, draper, Sevenoaks, Kent, April 1, at half-past
two, and May 7, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Bell, offi-
cial assignee, Coleman-street-buildings; Reed and Langford, Friday-
street, Cheapside.

John Perkins, jeweller, North-place, Gray's-inn-lane, March 28,
at two, and May 16, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Fol-
lett, official assignee, Sambrook court, Basinghall-street ; Clark,
Finsbury-place.
Thomas Peirson. money scrivener, Warwick-court, Holborn, April
4, at eleven, and May 16, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy.
Green, official assignee, Alderrnanbury ; Bell and Co., Bow Church-
yard.
John Brett, sheep salesman, Luton, Bedfordshire, April 7, at two,
and May 5, at one, at the Court of Bankrnircy. Groom, official
assignee, Abchurch-lane ; Wilkinson, Nicholas-lane, Lombard-street.
Richard E lis, carpenter, Richinond-street, Soho, April 1, and May
5, at two, at the Court of Bankruptcy Eduards, official assignee,
Frederick's-place, Old Jewry ; Carlon and Haynes, Palace-
chambers, St. James's-street.

Ann Abigail Innell and Alfred Cookes, varnish manufacturers,
Little Queen-street, Holborn, April 7, at two, and May 5, at half-past
two, at tho Court of Bankruptcy. Groom, official assignee, Abchurch-
lane, City; Stuart, New Inn, Strand.
Martin Cubitt, builder, High Holborn, April 3, and May 7, at two,
at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall-
street ; Smith, Southampton-buildings, Chancery-lane.
George Prince, wine-merchant, Romsey, Hampshire, April I, at
half-past twelve, and May 6, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy.
Bell, official assignee, Colemau-street-buildings ; Watson and Co.,
Faleon-square.
William Bull, cloth-merchant, Leeds, April 4 and 2J, at the
Leeds District Court of Bankruptcy. Kynaster, official assignee,
Leeds ; Sudlow and Co., Chancery-lane; Lee, Leeds
James Riding and James Fielding, cotton manufacturers, Leyland,
Lancashire, April 4, at eleven, and Ar ril 30, at twelve, at the Man.
cheater District Court. Hobson, official assingnee, Marcehester
Millie and Co., Temple, London ; Winder and Co., Bolton.
MMEI
A.

OURSE OF EXCIT_
Amsterdam ......C.F. 12
Dine, at sight ...... 12 6
Rotterdam .... • • 2U. 12 10
Antwerp.. .......• .... 2/5 15
ilamburgh .... • • M.B. 13 15%
A1t0na..........

Paris, 3 days' sight 2580
Ditto, 3 months 26 6
Marseilles • • ..... ••. • . 26
Bourdeaux .. • • 26 15
Frankfort on Maine.... 122%
Petershurgh, 3 U 5......
Berlin ...• . . •

Vienna, effee.tio•••••• 10 ltili
Trieste, ditto.... •• •••• 10 104
Madrid ..... 361 A
Cadiz • ..: ........ 36%
. . .
Barcelona •• ..

Eeyi11e............

N GE. - (THIS DAY.)
Gibra1tar..........••..
Leghorn
Genoa.. ........•• 26 15
Milan
Venice —

Naples ..
Palermo, per mr. ..... 119%
Lisbon .• • ..... 52%
Oporto •• . •••.. • • 523 i
Rio Janeiro ........ • • 24
Bahia .
Buenos Ayres .....

New Fork, 2I days' sight
Philadelphia ..........

PRICES OF BULLION, PER OZ.
Foreign Gold in bars X 3 17 9
Portugal Gold Coin 3 17 5
New lioubloons 0 0 0
New Dollars •••• 0 4 9%
Silver in bars ...... • . 0 4 114

LATEST PRICES OF SHARES.
IN BANKS, ASSURANCE, AND OTHER COM
PANIES' STOCK.

From Vic Official List,
rIIBLISIIED EVERY TUESDAY AND FRIDAY EVENING
LONDON, TUESDAY, MARCH 24.
JOINT-STOCIC BANKS.

Name of Company.

Dividend
per

Amount

raid. I Pri,

Am. nun.

Share.

Australasia
Britsh orth American
Commercial of London
colonial ..........
Londn and Westminstr
London Joint-Stock
Metropolitan
Provincial of Irela.nd •
Ditto, New...
National of Ireland ..
Nat. Provincial of Eng.
Ditto, New... .. • • ..
Union of Australia .. • •
Union of L0nd0n.....

6/. per cent.
51. per cent.
5/. per cent.
Si. per cent.
6/. per cent.
61. per cent.

a. d.
40 0 0
50 0 0
100 0 0
I€o 0
100 o 0
50 0 0
25 0 0
100 0 0
10 0 0
50 0 0
100 0 0
20 0 0
25 0 0
50 0 0 ,

X 5. d.
40 0 0 21
50 0 0 4,
20 0 0 2;
25 0 0 11
20 0 0
10 0 0 1,
7 10 0
25 0 0 if.
10 0 0 11
20 0 0 1E
35 0 0 3.5
10 0 0
25 0 0 25
10 0 0 12

81. per cent.
81. per cent.
51. per cent.
51. per cent.
51. per cent.
6/. per cont.
Si. per cent.

INSU:

'CE C,

Dividend

Name of Company.

per
Annum.

advantage of obtaining the sanction of the other portion of the
I egislature.. He believed that. the provision for public works
was in the highest degree useful ; but even these, useful as
they might be, would never alone have the advantage of giving
an impetus to private enterprise, and of eliciting that
commercial spirit through which alone sine thi eg like
a permanency would lie given to enterprise in Ireland and
the employment of capital for national improvement. F.. r
these reasons he feared they must not flatter themselves that
they would succeed in their present attempts to establish g, od
order and peace in the country, by the exercise of the ord.-
nary powers of the law. But the great object which they had
now to obtain was to establish peace, and security, and con-
fidence, by the exercise of those powers, and not by the en-
forcing of temporary and arbitrary laws. He would now come
to the special object of hie motion, and in doing so he was
bound to say that he did not see, in the measures which the
Government proposed, anything that was likely to produce this
result. There was nothing in them likely to have the happy
effect of producing unanimity, without the exercise of those
streng powers which he was compelled thus to deprecate.
He was compelled to say, that there was nothing which gave
him the assurance that the ferment now existing in that coun-
try was likely to be subdued by the measures before their
Lordships, nor could he hope anything better from the matters
under the consideration of the other branch cf the Legislature.
Wes there anything to assure them that in Oct. 1849 ; hey would
be freed from the necessity, in order to obtain peace, from pass-
ing some measure equal y as despotic as that to which he had
alluded ?—( Hear, hear. ) He would assure their Lordship's
that his conviction was quite the other way, and he thought the
great duty imposed upon them was to ascertain what measures
were necessary to obtain the object which he had laid before them.
Let them compare the difference between England and Ireland,
when some great crime was committed. In this country, if a mur-
der had been committed, and the culprit had escaped, the news-
papers, if the culprit were known, carried his description over the
bre dth of the land—an hundred eager eyes were on the watch
for him—all to whom suspicion could attach were taken into
custody, hurried before tl.e magistrate ; and in this way it was
that the real culprit seldom escaped. But in Ireland the popu-
lace did not interfere to secure the murderer and bring him to
justice ; on the contrary, the whole body of the people were
banded to screen and protect him, and to such an extent was
this feeling carried, that the greatest disgrace which could
attach to an Irish peasant was that he gave the slightest assist-
ance to the officers of the law. The character of informer,
were the name attached in Ireland, was as much as a man's
life was worth. What was the definition of the term in'orrner
in Ireland as compared with the same term in England ? lu
England informer was understood to mean a man who for gain, or
for the purpose of obtaining a penalty against another, would lay
an information for sonic infraction of the law, frequently of the
most, light and venial description. That was the informer in
England. But what was the meaning of the ti rm informer in
Ireland? The informer in Ireland was a roan who dared to
give information to the efficers of the law of the commission
of crime. Their Lordships were told the other night of the
extreme danger of giving evidence by the son or wife of a mats
ho had been, perhaps, unhappily murdered ; that man was, per-
haps, dragged out of bed at the midnight hour by a band of
hired assassins, and in the presence of his wife and child inhu-
manly and basely murdered, anal yet that wife or child, al-
though they knew the assassins by name—although they could
well describe them—dared not do so, as, in Irish definition,
they wculd be hunted down as informers. That persons, even
under this strong provocation, could not venture to give infor-
mation to justice was most melancholy and alarming ; and it was
well known that for the protection of witnesses in former years,
where a man gave evidence on behalf of the Crows', in the
case of murder, as soon as the trial was over, the Crown was
obliged to allow the expenses of emigrating to the man, that
he might leave for the colonies, as his life was no
longer safe in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Their object must be
to change this temper and deposition, and, he asked, had the
Coercion Bill any tendency to do so? Were the severe provi-
sions that they were compelled to adopt, when endeavouring to
suppress crime, of any avail, while the people continued im-
bued with the spirit he was endeavouring to describe? Were
these severe provisions calculated to reconcile the people to the
existing law, and to induce them to look upon the English as
their friends, instead of as their enemies? This Bill was of a
source like the dram of the drunkard, who, in the fit of intole-
rable depression which succeeded his excesses, knew that a
teesh excess would give him temporary relief, and to that ex-
cess he applied. The fact was, that the measute would be
some redress for the moment for the commission of crime, but
it had no tendency to take away the spirit which caused their
greatest difficulty in the administration of the law. That such
would be the result was proved by reason, arid also by expe-
rience. Had not measures of greater severity been tried long
enough (and without mush regard to the degree of severity
employed) without effect ? He found, in a speech made ky the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government,
in the year 1829, in introducing to the House the measure in
which he proposed the removal of the Catholic disabili-
ties, the histories of the measures which had been adopted
in Ireland. He said that, in the year 1800, we find
that the Habeas Corpus Act was suspended, and the
Act for the suppression of rebellion was in force ;
in 1901 it continued in force, as also in 1802. In 1803 the in-
surrection for which Emmett suffered began, and Lord Kil-
warden was murdered by a savage mob. In 1804 the Act con-
tinued, and in 1806 the west and south of Ireland were in a
state of insubordination, difficult to repress by the ordinary
course of the law. In 1807, in consequence of the increase of
insubordination, the Insurrection Act was increased in power,
giving to the Lord Lieetenant the power of placing, by procla-
mation, any district out of the pale of ordinary law. It sus-
pended trial by jury, and made it a transportable offence to be
out at any period from sunset to sunrise. It continued in force
from 1807, through 1808, 1809, to the close of 1810. In the
year 1814 the Information Act alit continued, and through the
years 1815, 1816, and 1817. In 1822 it was again renewed,
during the years 1823 and 1825. In 1825 a temporary Act
intended for the suppression of dangerous associations, and
especially the Catholic association, which was continued during
1826, 1827, and expired in 1828. In 1629 a new demand arose
for the abolition of the whole Act—but he would
not continue this painful history—only four years
afterwards, it was again found necessary, a short time after Sir
Robert Peel came into power, to introduce a similar measure
of the severest kind. '1 hat measure, or at least a great part
of its provisions, were renewed in 1824, and it expired only
four or five years ago ; and now again, in the year 1846, they
were called upon to renew it. Such was the result which
experience showed to have been obtained by mere coercion.
Such was the example they had; and if their efforts were
used in the proper direction, they would be able to prevent,
by rigorous measures, the commission of crime. They had the
prospect of restoring real security to Ireland. He contended
then that they must look further than they had hitherto done;
that they must look to the root of the evil, and see whether
it was not possible to change the temper of the people, to
effect a reconciliation between them and their rulers.—
, (Cheers.) To make them friends instead of opponents of
the administration of the law. This was the object to which
their efforts ought to be directed, and it was the object which,
if the efforts to which he had referred were honestly
directed, they should be able to attain. It was true
the task was a most difficult one, because they had to erase
from the minds of the Irish people the deep impression of long
ages of mis-government—they had to convince them that their
rulers had both the will and the power to serve and promote
their happiness and prosperity. This was what they had to
accomplish, and he should endeavour to show what, with that
- aid, he thought they would be able to establish in Ireland.
In the first place, he said, they must endeavour to convince
Ythe people that the law really existed for their benefit. They
2 must amend the law both in its provisions and in its adminis-
tration, for both are defective. He was of opinion that the
law as it is now in Ireland was quite inadequate, as it effected
I the poor man. It was so more especially as to the landed
tenure of Ireland. This was said to be the fact by the
Secretary for Ireland. That Noble Lord said, that the state
of the law as to the occupation of land in that country was the
~34 root of the evil in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) fle ( Earl
Grey) believed that injustice could take place under the
5 present state of the law, with respect to the
2 land question in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He should like to
know from her Majesty's Ministers, whether there was any
truth in a statement with respect to an affair at Roscommon ;
Ice if the paragraph which he had read in a paper was true, it
was most dreadful. There were, it was said, three or four
hundred persons turned off their land, where they had been for
years; they were turned out to starve without as much as a
4 place to lay their heads in. He trusted he was mistaken ;he
9% sincerely trusted that the paragraph was not correct. He be-
lieved: that a resort to such measures was most unjust. He
7ei
3e thought that when a lease fell out, to resort to such an extreme
el measure was a disgrace to humanity—it was a disgrace to civi-
lised life. It was well known that whatever little draining
- took place of land in Ireland was not paid for by the
53i landlord, but by the tenant. He did think it hard, that when
poor men, who had toiled upon the land for years, and after
2, giving it a double value by the improvements of their capital and
labour, that they should then ue turned off, if the land-
lord to whom they had paid their rent, had failed to pay it to his
8 superior landlord. This evil was to be traced to the practice of
9 sub-letting land in that'country.
0 A NOBLZ Loan—That is also the practice in England.
,6.34 Earl GREY—That may be the law in this '
coun.ry,
bat it was well known. it was never acted upon to
6% anything Flee the extent that it was in Ireland. He
5% had heard of an instance of a poor man who had taken
5% half an acre of ground upon a plan that was called the conacre
3 system, for which he paid 91., and from which he was to derive
2% patatoes sufficient for the maintenance of his family.—( Cries of
9% " Name.") This, he was informed, was a common practice in
es. the county of Waterford. This poor man had a person over
5 him who got into arrear to his superior, the head landlord.
ss.
That head landlord, not having been paid his rent, seised upon
4% this poor man's crop, placed a keeper upon him, snatched from
0 him the means of existence, and he would not be even told for
0 what or for how much he had been seized upon. But, in order
9 to ascertain this fact, the poor man actually committed an
__ assault upon the keeper, in order that the facts of the case might
come before the public. Now this was a class of cases which
the law in its present state could not reach. Now, in order to
remedy such a state of things, he conceived that the Govern-
Ice. went did take a step which appeared to him the most
prudent and injudicious that could well have been adopted. A
measure of a somewhat similar nature was introduced by Mr.
Sharman Crawford ; but was withdrawn, upon the understand-
I ing that a remedy would be applied ; and in the next session
the speech from the throne announced that a CommissEon had
been issued for the purpose of making the necessary inquiry.
Upon the debate which took place in February, 1844, upon a
- motion of Lord J. Russeell, he ( Lord Grey) took the liberty
of expressing his regret that such a Commission should have
been issued, inasmuch as it would have the effect of creating
exaggerated expectations in theo minds of the people of Ireland
Eee that would never Le realised. he present increase of agrarian
outrages was, in his opinion, traceable to it. It had given
rise to impressions among those who lived upon agriculture that
they were no longer to be the tenants, but the occupiers of the
, soil. He did nut mean to charge the Government with
attempting to stave off the consideration of a difficult measure
1.. t by appointing this Commission. He did not mean to charge
Se them with such a deriliction of duty, but he did charge them
with an unpardonable imprudence for the manner in which
34 they had dealt with it. He said now that not a moment should
aI be lost in taking the question up and dealing with it as
le the circumstances seemed to require, not in the spirit of
technical lawyer, but in the spirit of statesmen—not to
arrange the laws affecting civil property in an equivocal
'l4 is. and partial manner, but on the broad foundation of equity. A
reform conceived in such a spirit was now absolatucly necessary,
Is 4 and he sincerely hoped the Government would set about it.
% It was not the mere letter of the law, which should be im-
proved, nor its technical provisions, but they must also improve
14% its administration.—( Hear, hear.) A Noble Friend of his,
whom he regretted not to see in his place, had remarked that
6 he (Lord Grey) had gone too far in saying that there was one
law for the rich and another for the poor in Ireland, but he
would go still further and say, that not only was that the case,
but that both were i.l administered. Since 1841 a change for
14 the worst had taken place in reference to this; less confidence
was now felt by the people of Ireland in the administration of
the law than before. This was to be attributed to the hot and
eager, and virulent partizanship displayed by the Governmenti,
in placing' the administration of justice in the hands of men i,
had not the confidence of the people. That practice also, whictr
existed from 1835 to 1841, of excluding men from juries on
account of their religion, has been again tor
moresome
extent revived. Any thing mere objectionable or
improper he could not well imagine. Betterforthein
suchto at
an end to trial by jury altogether than to countenance
rperfoocrenae di
in
iPt arti24
n administration, jury.
gthe j uhroyw we
aaesr
,f earn
db eat treerfotrhma nina
were not the only paints which required their consideration.
As long as the Parliament which enacted the la'sys, and the
Government which, enforced them, were objects of hostility
and coutappt) butted of repent and conidouce, eo hog wahl

discontent and disturbance prevail. Ile knew that 'n
ej
ing this opinion he was going against high authority-1,0
those who imagined that political diseontent was, ssflitutbilaV
ferent from agrarian outrage. All the consideration e
,rsim
had given to the subject induced him to say that 6°4,0
great mistake. He considered that agrarian outreeesl'il;el
tical agitation were essentially connected. So I"ng 1104
for the repeal of the union prevailed
.ca eital would never
into the country, and ccrnmercial enterprise never lake7ssie
appeared to him impossible to expect political diiee° ;idle
exist without exasperating the feeling of the people aOtaesti
law. The enforcement of the law should be the peat ° ?tot.
Government, but they could never brirg the people ta 'O.OO
or look upon it with respect, until they induced them to
toe
in it. What, he would ask 'was the character of the crie'r!resol
misted in Ireland ? Since the melee which be had ,C 1
that motion, another outrage had been committed. °as ill.
trate had been shot. The crimes committed were neet„ii/
same character as those committed in this country- 1'4;0
not proceed from a lore of plunder, er from those rootless trio.
generally promote their commission in other °ad They were the work of private combinath ns °be
cret societies. It must be evident, therefore, t eel
the rules laid down to guide the relationship between 011 sit
man in that country were influenced by justice, the oTtle
would soon learn to appeal to the regular tribtsea'° thole
country to remedy their grievances, rather than t°
pith
midnight legislators. He said that the desperate fidelltlirre
which they cleaved to this kind of legislation showed a arieree
their tart to cliieg to those for whom they expscted reset
of their wrongs. Captain Rock and the repeal judegeessiobl
obeyed ; and so well too, that it was considered by
state
see
Lords as giving evidence of the worst symptoms of the
of Ireland. Does not the fact of their being so obeYenesstf
that, where they can be made to attach them;elves,
obedient and amenable to control ? A consideration e 150
circumstances led to the inference that to make tbecestO
effective and well obeyed the attachment of the people Poser'
gained. While the contrary is the case the laws will he„Per
less, and a well organised state of society w ne. ror
secured. He now thought that he had made out his Foil
sition that political agitation and social discontent were, chest
connected. Noble Lords might say, in reply to tha"reeste
down the re i eat agitation, then murder and social dist?, 00
will be also suppressed." l'efore that such a proceedieneo
attempted, let them recollect that that experiment ha'etesse
already made, and not with a success which would eneu
its repetition. Even if they were to try and put it d°!°t: sto
could only put down the external manifestation of 'Bald
than too, by means repugnant to the spirit of theebere,
Constitution, and at variance with the feelings a Engo.
Let them remember, also, that the tendency of °tes Ise°
attempt would be to alienate from their rar.ks a boll leerti.
(he hoped a large body) who valued constitutional ivies
While they kept aloof frosts the repeal &Yid
the spirit which pervades the followers of repeatentieg
not be subdu-d. They must look to ae"-forcel
more effectual. They could not win men's hearts by oft
they must win their affections, if they ever expected te,grdi
them well. It might be said that it would be irnpossiblego ,
this, or that nothing could turn them from repeal. Nay
that House could more firmly resist repeal than himself. "seed,
fismly believed that no uuiversal discontent ever yet piles' esef
unless there existed some grounds for it. The sufferers
be mistaken, but it was seldom found that a redress e ese
grievances eid not remove all complaint. An analosSee:_
tbd
occurred in Scotland. A discontent more hopeful th r /epel
which existed in Ireland prevailed there in 1713, on the foe
of the Union with this country. A motion was brough.ttsro
that House to dissolve the Union. Did they reject 501
everwhelming majority, as the other House did the ScreP:sees
of the repeal of the Union with Ireland, which he con_sestill
would not find a mover or a seconder in that House? Oro' olf
was 51 in favor of the motion, and 54 against it, and it :,-fete't
by a majority of four proxies that the motion was rfo'erteet;
There were seventeen proxies against the motion, and stioa;
in favour of it. What was the consequence of that of
°sae
Parliament set about remedying the grievances of 'se eyed
and she was placed upon an equality with England Moors;
constitutional right and privilege, and the consequeuse, sO°
that all desire for dissolving the connection was renee/7orse
he dish not believe that there was at that moment one oh; sae;
in all Scotland for such a measure. Let them try t aisee
system with Ireland. Let them adopt a similar n't
procedure with regard to her grievances. 'ee bads
grant such measures as Ireland would adopt if e cede
Parliament of her own. Let them adopt the lange!,4,oool,
use of by a Learned Prelate in his speech on the 1'41400
grant—" That they engaged, when they took the Forebellerei
of Ireland into their own hands, to rule her as if she,.yers
own Parliament." Let him ask, had they hitherto gbu acre'
Ireland in that spirit? Would an Iris's... Parliament !gigeg:
fused Catholic emancipation in 1827 ? Would it 14%0,
ouch a measure of corporation reform? Would it bac: al
in the same way regarding the registration of vetera,,,
above all, as to the tithes and the Church, that that Par'seee!
had done ? Would their legislation hare been the ,tssiti
That was the test which they should apply
measures. He must DOW acme to that ascesettiti
momentous question, the state of the Irish ree.,
He was well aw are that this was a subject upon which nets Or
meet with very little sympathy from almost any Partiitei°
House; but still he should follow it up. It was slot
i; e
the year 1844, by the Secretary of State for the o,°„e, the
partment, that in every attempt to legislate for Isola
great difficulty which met the Government at every °boll
every step was the Irish Church establishment ; and 1010:
Government proposed a remedy for the grievances of ;Val
they should be prepared to grapple with this diflicultPai sty
let him ask their Lordships to consider what gas the resoperll
of the case in this respect. They all knew that the Ploett°
and revenues of the Protestant Church were originaPYtgreetil
to the Roman Catholic Church, for the; purpose of lust
the mass of the community in that form of Christian sossre
which the people would alone accept that institutiornseeti the
hear.) But, by the imperial and conquering power °tie
country, those revenues were diverted from their origiaiettositt
pose, and they were now at the disposal of a small °e,
In a debate in this House last year, a Noble Lord ;170
stated, that the property of the Irish Church amouncefl.h 00.4,
enormous sum of 600,003/. a year, the whole of %/tut's; se
applied for the benefit of 700,000 or 800,000 per/aa:jgbtils
that such a state of things existed in a country, seven' `,,'s P
of the population of which were Roman Catholics ; 100
Noble Duke opposite also stated, in the same debate, thate Or
seven eighths of the whole population derived no ben"' vOlOB
ever from this endowment. But his Noble Friend (the feet
and Learned Lord on the Woolstack) had stated auother Ire'
namely, that since the Union, the Established Church itetel
land had received annually 595,000'. Now, just let the J'tlb
consider these facts well. First, they had the fact thaqjtki
minority of a large population, consisting of the W` fbe
classes, had received a magnificent endowment. 0 ;11.1
Presbyterians also, who were Dissenters as well e'rela
Roman Catholics, had lil ewise been cared for- eellf
them the bounty of Government had not been withheld: f;`'
to the Roman Catholics of Ireland who were by far theh3e l
in number, and to whose misery and destitution heePosreP
ready alluded, the Government gave no assistance Trn.defor
The Roman Catholics build their own chapels, and prVirs the
their own clergy, and yet these were the people for sfa°, 1,11
Government had literully done nothing.—(Hear, heeir!; to
him ask, then, was this a state of things that was '1 el
prove satisfactory to the people of Ireland? Let thew eau Cr
the scene presented by a Protestant church and a Rloseilet
tholic chapel in any pariah in the south of Ireland on a TAP
On the one hand, they saw, perhaps, the Protestant la $ core
with, it might be, one or two of his servants, occup)'''‘',gieerre6
nor in a comfortable building, and listening to the L'atrossrt
explained by a well-educated and well-paid fun% les°
On the other hand, a vast mass of the peoPle-- get
of that portion of the people whose labour vileW
its value to property, that portion of the people lretawstiet
those magnificent grants he had just spoken off had beeuseeeia
by violence and wrong—that class of people might he seit4
vast numbers, crowding the inadequate and miserable b,ur the
which their scanty means enabled them to provide' .4.6 etre
worship ofthe Divine Being; and those whom its lirnie4t yet
not capable of accommodatton might be seen kneeling:l3oli
in hundreds upon the cold wet ground, Sunday after n
tbb
throughout the whole year. Let bins ask, then, Ws, state
House expect that a people so treated could bear seri% wide,
of things wthnut feeling a deep rankling sense of gr's he bs"
tice ? But this was not the worst part of the caseeritb
to make out. If it were, and that they were content ftetice
having their property thus wrung from them, and that ts' Off
had been done them, in other respects in by-gone tirne;i, Alemight, perhaps, have less cause of complaint. But sae-r1
net the case ; for in spite of all this amount of wrong
de-felt ie
jury, the Protestant Church still was only known at' en'
Ireland as the cause of oppression and injury for the lasorelg,
tury and a half.—( Hear, hear.) These were Wong aired,:
he admitted, but not stronger or as strong as the case rlsettreP
because one portion of the administration of the Irishinto
—he meant the tithe system—was the most atrocionta ode
quitous that ever existed in any country of the world ; ld de'
it was imposed upon the people of this country, there °ll
flounce it at once as a yoke which no people could br' is the
imposition was denounced in the years 1787 and 1763 rattael
Irish House of Commons, in the burning eloquence of
who only asked for such a mitigation of this system as re'
afford the people of Ireland some temporary relief. atht fool
quest was refused, and that refusal it was that drew ti°
him those memorable words, which denounced this tithe Isand
as the worst law that ever disgraced the statute h(neole
which called forth his indignant denunciation of the seas
system of the Established Church in Ireland. His mate resist'
opposed by the Irish bishops, and it was their determine le
entre alone that defied all his efforts, and which compel!""Este'
exclaim, with indignation, that to the Bishops of tbe, the
Wished Church in Ireland was mainly to be attrihet;oo o
defeat of every effort for the improvement of the 'n n;Nig, eeal
the people of that country. He (.fitounced the *slaw e cea;
as grinding and oppressive so the lase degree ; end °eel oners
eluded his memorable speech in words which few 0°- might
be bold enough to use, but which he (Lord Grey) Ole;
venture to quote, as the words of Mr. Grattan, 3° „Oa II
were to the effect that it would appear that religion C.`'t eels
be supported without enormous wealth, and that Chrl'enes
not be represented upon earth unless Mammon tonhsl the
the band.—( Hear, hear.) Well, then, with regard
° pare
tithe system, it was only at a very recent period that a Tel) scser
was passed for the partial remedy of that law, and 'llrie:
Balled the Tithe Composition Act, and which eventually er,
`
to be no remedy at all. At a period still later, anotherot rent
Lord opposite proposed another remedy, but that ass hi Ist
the people had taken it into their own hands. Let "chafe'
was this the mode calculated to endear the Protestant ythat
to the people of Ireland ? On the contrary, he ecoulaseisels of
the whole system was calculated to impress upon the 1;00iti•
the people a deep and lasting sense of hatred and seer
to the Establishment; and they never attempted feels,
a remedy, until an agitation had been raised fle":: Sot
emancipation in terms that could not be suppresee% the
all measures of justice were invariably refused ere'
ground that the safety of the Church Lstablishatent 'a after
land would be in danger. Did the House wonder, th.en. sts's
this, that a deep-rooted feeling should exist against tneeegs
blishmens ? He would ask them to judge of thee fee:yip:
the people of Ireland by their own. Let him ask th _
tone
Rev. Prelate the bishop of London, what his feelingo roes
be, if the revenues of his see were to be given for the
tion of the few Roman Catholics it contained ? Let him to
pose the whole case reversed, and that England was eu'orp
the seine position as Ireland. Ireland the governing eo veg.
lishmen bear with it? The answer was obvious; t re of
' Irishmen, and they should be In? and
England the governed ; he would ask how long would wee
hneaorttsf.eelTthheeirmwthrloengzioddeePpete/rBorei:
argument applied to
less than men
bitterly rankling
ferred to a debate in the House of Commons in the. Yeasrtieless
in which an Hon. Member, a friend of his, declared: the 'd the
the Government made some alterations in the sys Joni b-0,0
if
atth eythediird
Established Church in Ireland, they might give LT "' face.'
governing that country otherwise than by military
ed the
Hear, hear.) He (Lord Grey) had already supe:ieg to
ease such as that of the revenues of a Protestant set., g'tase of
the support of a splendid Catholic hierarchy. Such 'l4oo'
things would be a description of slavery to which no 'obi°
man would submit.—( Hear, hear.) He heard g
the
.e were
Duke opposite declare in this House last year, that the
eight millions and a half of people in Ireland prof.'9'4l°oola
Roman Catholic religion—that there they were, and tfseeliised,
riot hells their being Roman Catholics ; but, as thee' °riot/9
they should be provided for. He felt that he had irnres esea;
expressed his feelings as to the invaluable nature of tsewirred
sure, arid how imperfectly he had described what !Test was
monstrous injustice. Considering the state of Ireland,a_r' ousts
undoubtedly a matter of extreme difficulty, and a in utiteeti%
indeed, have most overcoming confidence if he could,: with-
information, as an individual Member of that House, the
out the assistance and advice of many others, contemPl7o
at "a°'ilatiafactim of the wintry. Al! be Trnkl now!
possibility even of broaching this substantive measure