The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-13 00:00:00

mind i' there had been a p. rfect unanimity in every sense
emneigst the clergy coiettellater this Bill? Weal there have
been two epii ien. in the mied r f s fly man in the country O'er
the eiti-01' ai p'irt of then Lon its'nic'e,' liou-e at leas- had in en
swayed, not by their own dispassionate and deliberate convic-
tion. hut by a senee of the interests of a particularelass ?
( Hear, hear. ) He must Fay that he rejoiced that there was
net that unaniieity, but he rjenced that there was no unani-
mity an all upon thin tub eet in that part of their Lordships'
House, because every impartial person must see that they as a
body fo limed their ewn co vietions, and he might be permitted
to allude to a very sineular fact in reelect to the division, that
two of their own body, who were united not only by their
ffiet. hit by their tiesef love, went on non eget' sides on the
division on this Hill.. Hear. hoar.) The Nn ble Duke who
woke ,ast night stated to the T-Iniiee the result of his calcuta-
titins a: to the effeet whitth the measure would have upon the
interests of the clergy wh n it hae been va•sed into a law, and
he had celeulated the matter FO rXiCtly that he discovered it
would produce precisely a diminution amounting to one-four!).
Now, be did not pretend to be able to follow the Noble Duke in
these catculatiens, re- to ascertain whether they were without
foundation or not, hut he did conceive that the Noble Duke
must have clearly on erlooked and put out of acceure anything
in the share of a comp' nsation which 'he clergy might receive
in order to make up this ti ficiency, in consequence of the affects
anticipated by the opponents of the measure. And, moreover,
he must be permitted to say. in reference to this, that whatever
might be the const quences arising to the interests of the clergy,
anti to whatever degree those anticipations of Noble Lords
on the ero,s benches might be realised, still he thought the
bad effect which had resulted and must result to the
interests of the clergy would not principally be laid nn this
measure, but resultec from one which was passed long beim.
It was taking this measure in connexion with that for the
commutation of tithes that the interests of th • clergy were
placed on a '7ifferent footing from other classes interested in
land. But he said, although it was psesible that the clergy
might receive some loss, they certainly could not say that they
had sustained any irjury from that Measure. because it wan
undoubtedly passed with the content of those who repres-nted
them in thet Weise—end not only that, hit it was
ratted with
the full understanding that here was a possibility it would he
fellewed by the m-asure now under their Lordships' cenaitlere-
tion. He said that some of those that took part in the
cussion on that measure distinctly and expressly adverted to the
pTsthility that et no distant period a repeal of the corn-laws
might take place. Now he oely alluded to this circernetanee
for one purpose, which was to show the uncertainty of calcula-
'inns of this nature, for those who adverted to this possibility
in connexion with this subject did en. not because they
ived that in the event of a reneal of the corn-laws the
intere t 3 of the clergy would be affected, but that that repeal
ve old operate a- a grievance upon the owners of land.
The Duke of RICHMOND—Oh. oh.
The Ili-hoe of St. DA VID'S—I de not know, prneee led
the R gilt Rev. Prelate. what the Noble Duke means, by that
expressee. of dissent, but I venture to refer lim to the !Tee
aecounts that cast he heel • f the discussion which teak place on
that. ocel.imi, and I beg to assure him that that circumstance
wee attire" !eel to for that purpose. However, he said. he
would not deal ping with this part of the subject and. if he had
referred to it, it was fir the ohiect he had already stated. He
was quite sure, however, that the clergy at all events slid not
wish that this measure should he judged by any operation
which might happen, and if he were to meet with env of the
clergy alter this discussion, and to say them " I think I have
deserved your approbation. b-cause the measure was one likely
to promote the general interests of the country ; dill because
I understand it was likely to operate injuriously to rut- in-
terests, i enmpliene with the earnest exhortations which I re,
ceived from many of your b st frisnela in the House of Lords to
vote against it." He was sure if he were guilty of such a
feeling of dishonesty, he -honld be far from earning the good-
will or the thanks of any of the clergy, neither should he de-
serve the good opinion of any man in the country. Rut he
hail done with that part or the subject. and he could not say ht-
should not con-ent to pats this measure nn any such paltry
anti miserable weunds as on a'-count of its effects on the TAW.-
cular interests of sush a limited class as those with whom he
was connected. He was sure in supporting this measure he
was performing a public duty. He looked not to is effect on
any particular interest, hut to it. it fluenee on the comforts end
condition of the great body of the people —( Hear, hear.)
The measure might he a great and fearful experiment, hut it
was not a gratuitous and wanton one. With reg rd
to the interests of a few the measure might be a
perilous experiment, hut with regard to the interest for which
Noble Lords professed sash great sympathy, he must say it
was a question of life and death to the people of the country.
Moreover the measure had one advantage ; it held nut Lope,
which was the great sweetener of adversity. Rut should they
resist the measure, and abide by the old system in operation.
he should like to know what prospect Noble Lords would hold
out of improving the condition of the people.—( Hear. hear. )
One thing which ought to claim their Lordships' attention was,
the reason why. if they rejected the measure, they would create
mistrust and discontent in the public mini? That was a
subject which ought to gain their consideration, and it was
perfectly worthy of their dignity. He did not look upon the
measure as replete with a great deal of advantage. Had it been
trumpeted forth by the Government, as it had been by the
Anti -Corn-law League, he would have looked upon it with great
mistrust, hut his confidence in it was greatly increased by the
sobriety with which it was introduced to the House by the Mi-
nistry. It was stated by the Minister that one of the beneficial
effects of the measure would be to create a steadiness in the
markets. He could state to their Lordships that the poor
people were unable to take advantage of a moral or religious
education from the low state of their physical condition.' The
reason they often gave for not attending their church, nr their
school, was, that they had not clethes to attend. And if this
measure gave them any facilitiee, if it bettered their condition.
it would be no cunt ruptiele boon ; and even if it could be
proved to him that the measure would not be fraught with the
benefits to which he alluded, still he woull support it, as he did
not consider !hat they should lay themselves open to suspicion.
which would infallibly attach itself to their Lordships if they
rejected the measure. He did trust that if there was an in-
jury inflicted on ary class by the measnre, that it was not nut of
the reach of the legislative wisdom of Parliament to deal with
that evil and remedy it ; and in this belief he comforted him-
self that in giving his vote for the measure he was coin-
ciding with the opinions of those eminent men who had
given their attention to the subject.
The Bishop of EXETER said he did not agree with many
statements of the Right Rev. Prelate who had last addressed
the Hou.e, and he coesidered that the clergy were bound not
to look on in silence when the interests of the clergy were at
spa-e—interests which it was their especial and bounden duty
to protect. It was the custom of their Lordships, whenever
their interests were invaded, to caul upon them tosupport them.
That had been the invariable practice of their Lordships, and
he thanked them for appealing to them upon the present quail-
tton. He considered that the measure would depreciate the
moral and physical condition of the people, and that it would
also lessen the property of the church. Was cheapness of pro-
vision the great point a ught by the ministerial measure? He
considered that cheapness was not of such moment to labourers
as high wages.—( Hear hear.) To raise the wages of the
aericultuiist, or meehanist, the more you would better his con-
dition mortlly and ph,-ically ; and he considered that it was an
unanswerable promettion that. the more they introduced foreign
manutactures tne more they would interf re with and depreciate
the labour of the home manufacturer. H -a experience taught hits
so. and he believed that t to measure would not be attended
with any of the benefit- which it was alleged would accompany
it; and, impressed with opinion. he gave the measure his
opposition. And he would conjure their Lordships to give
th it vote upon this suhj net as 'hey would do (soon a judicial
case—that they would lay their hands utann their hearts, anti
say, "Not can era, ution me honour."—( Hear, hear. )
The Ili-hop of 'J. D ATM'S explained.
The Ea' of WARWICK and the Bishop of OXFORD
rote together,
And after a few observations from Lord Raotmeram, Earl
STANH ,PE, and the Duke of RICHMJND, as to who should be
heard fir-t,

duty.buf on the lesser one a expeeieney—and the reply was.
that he had not got the money. `fleece duties were the great
respoes:biiiees attend:lnt upon the possession of lard. 'rho
peasan,re of the c-sentry saw their owe state and the stese of
their children before them day after day, and they naturally
looked round them for a remedy, and the only remedy that
presented i'self was an improved condition of the country. Rut
Noble Ler& said that the measure was not caleulated to im-
prove the condition of the country ; that the home market was
the best field of operation, and that would be totally destroyed
by this measure. If the aericul ural and manufacturing
interest was really on the verge of destruction, and the effect
of the measure would be such as was stated, what would be
the isonsequence? Why. their Lordship; would have to re-
trace their steps, and that. would be the worst evil it would
tbeev upon them. here was one fear, and the only one of
which he tlmuelit th. it Lordships capable, and that wss the
fear of beine thought afraid. They were afraid tt,at they
s' null he thought to have changed their minds with regard to
this measure through a fear which they del not wish even to
se. mto fe. I. When Mr. Berke said at Brist tl that he would
raise the woollen manufacture to suisply the world bv admit-
ting foreign competition, he was almost hooted off the stage
with that sort of masked dissent to which many ;n that House
were not strangers.—(Laughter.) He hoped that they :could
not he misled by that eloqu,nee which of late had tickled their
ears. and by arguments wt ich painted over facts, which had
been ploy- d to be nothing but rottenness and delusion.
He did believe that there was in the minds of the English
penpie a deep- seated conviction that their I.ordships would
act in the question for the good of the majority, and he en-
treated their Lordships not to disappoint that feeling,. It was
said. it would have been better had this question been first
submitted to the electoral body of the country; hut, in his
opinion, such a course would have been fatal, if not. disgrace •
ful, to the character of a great statesman. Besides it would
have been unfair, because the masses would have been led
-away by eppeals to feelings rather than to sense. Class
would have been tot ed against class, and the whole country
would have been thrown into a state of wild excitement and
c,sinmet'on, without removing the difficulties or evils this mea-
sure was proposed to meet. Let their Lordships remember, that
the labouring classes of this country—who hail
long borne con inued suffering with a patient endurance of
which no other nation in the world afforded an example—lneked
to 'hem to do something to remove the evi's under which they
were suffering. He besought their Lordships not to disappoint
these expectations—expectations roused by the vast wisdom,
ability. and known justice of their Lordships. He entreated
them not to mistake the quietness of the endurance of the people
for anything I.ke apathy or unconcern. Such quietness was a
sign of the times in which they lived. The people had never
evinced so little of anything like a turbulent spirit of dissatis-
faction as they did at the present moment ; but. it was not
because there was no suffering—it wss sot bemuse the pre-
valent misery was confined to a few classes only, but becemes
the people reit' that those whe were in power bed mani-
fesosd a dispoeition to do all they could to relieve their
suffsrings.--' Hear, hear ) He besought their Lord-
ships, t; en, not to attempt to stem the
- •

the t. but some levity might have been caused by the
!o, c nermance of a debate calculated to excite so murai
ai al, felines, anti, in their cooler 111.111,11t5, they wese, there-
fore, more eispesed to listen to stories olio it the bunibtie of
Irish flinine. One word before he sat down. ticariking their
L reships for having given him so much of their attention. It
waa sa:d that concesk-ions of trade were all ten one side, and this
ceurere got !Whines in return from foreien rations. . hut the
qa-stion for :,hem to consider was whether their t xample eau :d
net produce its effects on foisegn states in inducing 'hem to make
eerie 'scions on their part. Now, the expe• ience of !he east
preyed to them that it did. In 18.24 the corn-laws stoked in
the way of concessions. which the United States
,were ready to
make to this tome ry about that time. Ageiu, ,rt tote e.P.s2 of
Prussia, the corn and time.-r duties were the oily ohstss'es in
the way of amicable commercial arrangemetets teeee-ec• ; iact
country acid the ; and these obseicles always woutc. x-s. so
long as a petty protective eastern prevailed io Eriglaiel. He
had already stated he did not anticipate any great reelnetien
in prices from the adoption of this measure,
.and mccuy peat
aril eminent authorities agreed with him ;n thiA cipirron
The effect he anticipated it would have would be to teaulere
the trade of this country with all the world, but more par-
tic ulacl to regulate the corn trade. But then it might be
asked what good the measure could do if it did not reduce
prices? Whk , it would have the great good of placing the
trade of this country on a sure and safe footing, and inotect
it from tense distinctions which the disputes of nations had of
late so often threwn in its way.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY said, having intruded on a former occasion
at an extreme length on their Lordships attention, lie did not
again intend to present himself before their Lordships, but
after the painted manner in which the Noble Lord who had
just sat dawn had addressed same of his observations to
him, he felt it to be his duty to offer a few words in
reply.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") And in the outset he
migit remark, that this was the first time a t attempt had been
made to reply to a speech he delivered a firtni,,ht ago, but for
his own pa-t he did not f-el that he shouid be justified In at.ecw-
ing a single moment to pee by without pointing out some of the
iacoesistencces which the Noble Lord's reply presented. Ia
the first place the Neble Lord argued as if he rested the de-
fenee if the protective system upon the wisdom of their aa-
cestora, and to atone extent he admitted that he did. But the
Noble Lord brought forward a pirticular Act of the reign f
Edward IV., by which protection, which existed even at fleet
time, was aaolishad. The Bill, however, to whicti his Neble
Friend had a•luded, related to the internal, and not to the
foreign Ira& of the country. It related to parties who were
subject to their own legislation, and under their own control.
and it was rateer ton bad that his Noble Friend should have
su; pressed that fact.—( Bear, hear.) The Noble Lord had
said free trade ought to be the rule, and ptotection the
exit:P{olon ; while a High, Reverend Prelate had rema,ked that
the nearsr their legislation approximated to a state of leisure,
the more perfect it became. But, unfortunately, in Jet world
they coma met always reach a state of nature, and befere
they could estatilish free-trade upon this principle, all two anti
all nations must come uncier the same control. It was a very
good theory, tie aktmittecl, but in legislating upon it they mu.:
take into consideration the difficulties which were in the way
of its being put in practice. Arguing in this way was just the
same as a man saying he had discovered or invented an inge-
nious system of pet piqued motion, without takitig into considera-
tion the action of the air and atmosphere on his invention,
The Noble Lord then proceeded to express his astonishment,
that he had defamded the sliding-scale, but he did nei impuen
iris arguments, which proved that the slid,egase 1- had pre-
served a sliding in the market; he did not peeve tam hit argil-
manta were false.-- (Hcar, hear.) Creed n be shorn t.,at
Prussia 'lad rsduce.l her duties en English no tot a hvn they
reduced their timber duties ? She had not. and ,hey had no
reason to -up. ose [hat if they reduced their clutitss on cent,
that it would lead to a reciproeation from other countries. He
was rouch sty prised to hear from his Nobli
ew (fFilihe:uplo, the Linter.
iaec, elaky of State for the Colonies, that they were to be c tic-
sit'ered more as an eu' let for the overfl
e country. But if he locket upon the coloni .s in such e
tight he world theionftielaxttetih,deyingwetrbeeiurseeleosil:c.iisit,
they
were less sca they were a burcen. But they were not so. 1 hes
we:e for the purpose con
nexiona. The Noble Lord said he was addressiee
•he House under disadvantages because the matt,
were not received from Canada.—t Hear, hear. i Why, ile
eould wish 'oohing better than that they shcinld eaat, - rill
that they should wit until the country had (teetered open the
measure.—• Lmd cheers.) Had they teetisultee Lard Met-
calf ? He believed that they had not. He was not aware what
his opinions were respecting the measure, hut he del itot
that they were favourable to the measure. Lee them lois to
the feelings of the Canadian Legislature-let th m sse the
opinions of the Attorney-General and Solicitor-General of
Canada, and they would see how they received the measure ;
they would find that tiny declared that it was fraught with
ruin to the Canadas, and left no resource to them but to
throw themselves into the arms of the United Stay s.—( Hear.)
The distress in Ireland did not arise from want of food. but
from the want of employment. The want of employment
begot mutiny, which prevented the introduction of capital,
and the consequent circulation of money sartich it
would produce.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") They had
in Ireland an impoverished landed proprietary, with heavily
mortgaged estates; and what were they about to do? They
were about to reduce, at least temporarily, the price of corn ;
for he believed that their one-sided free trade would produce
the greatest fluctuation, sometimes causing great temporary
diminution of price, arid at other times raising it to au extrava-
gant height. Such would be the greatest evil the labourer could
endure, as their wages were fixed geeerally by an average, and
not by a fluetuation. And he believed that the landlords would
not be affected by the measure in so great a degree as it was
imagined by some. He considered that it would press heavier
upon the labouring classes, aid, with that feeling, he opposed
it. This measure was not only injurious from its tendeuey on
the price of corn, hut it was also inj irious on the grounds of its
ireertecence with the incomes of the clergy. The church
would have been b tier provided for had not the Commutation
Act passed into a law, for then they would have bad an in-
terest in the improvement of the land. There was a vast dif-
etence between the parochial clergy and the Right Reverend
Bench.—( Hear, hear.) The parochial clergy were dependent
on the price of corn, while, on the other hand, the Right
Rev. Bishops had their incomes fixed.—( Hear, hear, and " No,
no.") There was one interest which would derive a benefit
from this Bill, namely, that it would increate the price of
money one-fifth, and the effect of this would be to increase the
national burdens of the country in connexion with the
national debt.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
One Right Rev. Prelate said that this Bill would have the
result of keeping alive the hopes of the people. He warned
their Lordships • against any such fallacious course as this.—
< Hear, hear.) Hope long deferred maketh the heart siek.—
(Hear, hear.) It was a dangerous thing to feed up the hopes
of the people. It was a most pernicious thing to feed the
people with sweetened hopes, which, when disappointed, would
be found to be worse than any evils which might other-
wise arise, even supposing those evils to exist,
which ho contended did not exist.—(Hear, hear. )
fie warned their Lordships against the measure before
the House,--( Hear, hear.) .M my of their Lordships were in-
clin-d to Volt upon this measure as one which should not call
for their opposittore because it was to be passed whether they
should vote or not. He should be sorry to say that they should
not bow to the decision of the Legislature, bat they should
bear in mind that they would, by voting for the me .suce, be
voting against their conscienees —( Hear, hear.) If this was
a measure which was necessary to t e preservation or well-
being of the country, why was not the opinion of the coutary
taken upon it ?—( Hear. hear.) In a short time it. would he
necessary to take the vr‘ice of the people, and why not wait
for t hat ?—t Hear, hear.) If it were demanded bs
the country at large, it would then be hi h
time to answer that demand—but even if the whole
this( lic-o a
urn' t r hear.)
if they
voice of the people declared in favour of it. he questioned W‘e-
titer they could then leave the agriculture of this country
without prozett...ti,.n.
tt
haw' 'llse sic'
become the law of ,
alter the voice of the country was taken upon it - ( Hear, haart
air.? lf,
were however,
t i p„,
—they could thee bow to that demand of he cou-ary with a
good grace.—( Hear, hear.) He warne.i them, however,
against passing toe present measure without he mig backea by
the demands of the people. It was not asked fog by then emu
at large, but,
on the eo't-ary, it was opposed ; and, if it 'a as
desired, let the question be tried at o:iee.—(Lou,i cheers. )
Earl GREY, amidst considerable cries id adjout u, and
much confusion, rose to address the House. After ..r der had
been restored the Noble Lord proceeded. The Noble Lurd
who had last addressed the House eomtnenced his speech by
alluding to that side of the House, and charging the Noble
Lords who were in favour of the measure with not having
answered the arguments advanced by the Noble Lord on a
former occasion. He (Earl Grey) considered that the Noble
Lord's speech had been answered by his Noble and Learned
Friend ( Lord Brougham). It was true his Noble and
Learned Friend had not gone into all the arguments advanced
by the Noble Lord, but those which he did follow he (Earl
Grey) was of opinion that he had succeeded in tearing the
Noble Lord's arguments to tatter,. He would not at that
late hour follow his Noble I.riend through all the details of his
speech. His Noble Friend however had referred to one point
which he weulti just glance at. He said that the late slidirg-
scale had been productive of steady prices, he (Lord Grey)
denied that such was the fact, tor in contrasting the
!dices of this country with tore'gn countries, he
took the Gazette price for wheat in this country and the
market price for corn abroad.—( Hear, hear.) This made a
very material difference, and operated most injuriously for
foreign prices, as compared with prices in this country. His
Noble Friend had also referred to Ireland. His argument,
however, on this head was very untenable, for they had no
right to keep up the prica of land in Ireland by a continua ion
of these protective duties. If there was one part of the king-
dom more than another which would be benefited by the re-
moval of these restrictions, that part was Ireland. Every one
eimitted that excessive competition in land was the great bane
of Ireland, and it required no argument to show that this great
evil would be abated by the repeal of' the corn-laws.
Lord BROUGHAM hoped that his Noble Friend (Lord
Stanley) would no longer say that his speech was unanswered.
After the excellent reply just made by his Noble Friend (Earl
Grey ), that brilliant effort would be no longer regarded as having
passed without an answer, inasmuch as every part of that
elaborate harangue had been most satisfactorily refuted.
One of the moat irregular and absurd blunders he had ever
heard committed on any subject had been committed that night
by the Noble Lord on the subject under discussion. The
Noble Lord said there was to be a fall in the price of corn after
L•
the passing of the Bill. Well, let them admit it ; but the Nobleord added. that with the tall in the price of corn the price ol
all other commodities would fall, with the exception of bul-
lion ; and this falling of prices and rising in the value of moue)
would add a fifth to all the public burdens.--.(could anything, be more absurd than this--lie was going to say
Hear, hear.) Now,
argument—but argument it could not be called?—( Hear.)
of those who had fixed incornea would rise in value, and it
would do so in this way. The prices of corn and commodities
having fallen, a person with a fixed income could get for his
money double what he got before.
Lord BROUGUANI replied that he took it in that light,
but how count the falling of prices add to the burdens of the
man who hail a fixed income? Here was the absurdity, and he
was elect tre House perceived it with him. He rejoiced that
they lived in the times of a repres ntative Government, while
he denounced the unconstitutional principle of those who were
represented interposing. after they had delegated their trust to
the Ministry to settle particular questions, nut only lair them-
selves, but Vr these whom they had elected as their represen-
tatives.—( Hear, hear.) Thk, in his opinion, was the gr., o,st
evil that could fall on a country governed by a representative
Government. anti he felt it his duty to warn tie pro•cetittnist
party that they were by their present course ge,,erating the evil.
Well, theta, it was said that an appeal was to be made to the
people by dissolving the Parliament; and it weer).; 1)..! said
that appeal was to be made upon a most important question;
but the intrigues of party made the most trumpery question
a question of " paramount importance." The Mayttooth
grant was made a question of " paramount importance;" but
though
t,ustehgnentr:edt was no
their
rneosr
eeda lotlausnt„dino
inwbho:(f.nk
Pt:horel
pyi a.r
wenti
n, ,
il.manetw.
down
(01111;1 ehe mae
heihear.)oridb opposite,e en The
mentioned, s .uetct h
oily ofo
tahsiasasnan Nobleattemptaanswer
Friend,werto
a a nt
hLaaotlrl tiuosfi Aotlnho net to Nobleeaigtl_e,
t.
ino
( Laughter )—and sad it was a speech in defence of those who
h
Lord STANLEY—No; but who had changed their votes.
Lord BROUGHAM—WeII, then, he would adopt the dis-
tinction, iande
ti changed
n,but their
it reminded
hoisted on, who did not wish to be ,allfd an old maid, but an
elderly unmarried lady.—( Laughter.) His reason for pre-
ferring the total repeal of the corn-laws; against which he was
o oKing•
: him of that which an old maid once
fully aware there were several arguments--.among others the
evict of the est:avast; he Vit§ setilible that since the

tor,ont of universal conviction, but, to be guidNi by wise anrl
equitali.e principles. Do not, he implored them, let the people
t‘,tok that !hey had the power and the wealth of an ancient
arstocracy without its virtues hut, by the rtivision, of that
night, show the country that the wisdom, justice, and impar-
tiality of their Lord.hips' mighty House still remained as great
as ver.—( )
Lo-11 Sl-IBURTON said in the cour=e of the whole of
this discussion lie had heard nothing, so personal, nothing so
eloquently admonitr•ry, as the speeeh of the 11,09 Rev. Prelatc;
but he must confes,, eloquent though the sprech was, it ap-
i eared to him to be totally devoid of all argument, It was

something like a speec!, made during the French revolution,
in which the speaker recommended his auditors to " respect
projierty, hut change its proprietors "—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) The Right Rev. Prelate tt ld them, in the
same breath, that their lahoorers and tenantry were
•n great distress, and the only means of retnevirg it
was for them to sarrificie half their pmerty.—( ar, hear,)
He contessed he could not see wisdom in the force or applica-
bility of such a recommendation ; and he, for one, trusted
their Lo-dships would not he influenced by the eloquence cr,
the language. or the rhetorical figures in which the advice was
conveyed.. i Hear, herr.l The Right Reverend Prelate hal
told them that the corn-laws were unnatural, and had ven-
tured to propound the principle, that the less they interfered
with the laws of nature the more wise and efficacious their
legislation would be. Why he had always heard it said that
self-preservation was one of the first laws of Nature; and
nothing, he thought, could be more in favour of protection
than this branch of the Right Reverend Prelate's argument.
He then wenton to say how much thelar.d might be improved.
But at the same time it was an unfair reproach to say that the
English farmer was b.-hind-hand in the science of agriculture.
Far otherwise—for the fact was that he produced fully double
the quantity from the same portion of land than the farmer of
any other country in the world. It was true that the British
agriculturist went to the end of the world in search of artificial
manures. But even if they passed this measure, they would
ruin and take away his capital, and then could they call on him
to improve his land ? What might be the fate of the British
farmer he could not say, but it was quite clear that the great
mass of them must be ruined. Not only under the present
system is the land made to produce more, but we have it on the
beat authority, that of the Learners themselves, that one
English labourer was worth two of any other country. But
they did not want those incitements to promote native industry
when her own people were so much beyond any other country.
And then his Right Reverend Friend had observed that it
was wise in the Minister to make a seri s of experiments.
He could not agree in such a doctrine. Much as he admired
his talents and his eloquence, he consider d it much better for
churchmen to keep to their church ; for if they advocated such
doctrines,' and if they read such lectures on political eco-
nomy, they should nor advance much in the science of legisla-
tion. The Learned Prelate had said that he considered this
measure wor by of support, as it would tend to produce a
steadiness of price in the markets. But he contended that.
under the present system, as great a steadiness was obtained
as possible, even if they legislated on the subject, and fixed a
.dated price. For even when the markets of other countries
were disturbed—when the markets of France, of Spain, and of
Holland rose, no fluctuation occurred, though it might be ex.
petered in this country. But if he considered this measure of
the greatest possible advantage—if he were favourable to the
principle, and if he thought it desirable to remove protection,
he could not support the measure, as he believed it calculated
to defeat its own object. and fatal to the end it proposed to ac-
complish. And as the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Monteagle)
was fond of authorities, he would quote some. Me. Huskissen,
in the year 1825, in the month of nag, foresaw an approach-
ing bad harvest. There were then 400,000 quarters of wheat
in bond, and he proposed to let them out at a 10s. duty, the
price being then 755. per quarter, but so cautious was he in
,iot letting it out hastily upon the market that he let it out in
the proportion of thirds every month. He adverted to this to
show the caution which was requisite upon matters of such a
nature, and he wished to contrast it with what they w re
about to do. They were going to let out two millions of
quarters, and that not in the pi °portion of thirds, but at once—
tot at a 10s. duty, but a 4s. duty per quarter—at a season too
when air re was the prospect of a too t and an early bars-st.
l'he market would necessarily be swamped lie. therefore,
'relieved that this measure was not suited in ant degree what-
ever to accomplish its own object ; and neither did he believe
that its pristriple was good, he would, therefore, oppose it. They
a keg of free trade—it was a very fine excres,ion, but was that
•ree trade in which they opened their ports to every one, and
so one opened to them ? Was that the y,rir.ciple of mutuality ?
Was that the principle of reciprocity? Or di.l it prove, that
the principles of freetrade were the just ones? He would rather
-ay that they were the prieciples of uncommon nonsense. They
were about to open their ports to the rest of the world. Th-
eonsequenee would be that when there was a scarcity they
would not receive any advantage from so doing—they would
receive no favour. Oi her countries tvould be equally benefited,
and inrtoanEnglandwould
he Spain,
would remain
harvest, Fand Dantzic would help to drug her markets, and send their
that thet when only advantageshe had
a
which
plentiful
wheat when it was not wanted. And now he wished to offer
one or two observations on a very imp trtant question. He
meant the colonies. And he begged to recall to their Lord-
ships' recollection what had been stated with respect to the
feelings with which the Canadians would receive the inti-
ma ion of this legislative measure. They were all aware
that Lord Cathcart wrote a very urgent letter to
the Government, stating that it would create feel-
ings of distrust and disaffection amongst the Canadians;
and what must have been his conviction upon this subject
when he was so urgent in his remonstrances? It was seldom
that Governors-General had the hardihood to tell the whole
truth to their masters ; and the Noble Lord who last night
a Idressed them did not make any explanation but his speech ;
showed them how little explanation he had to offer on the sub-
jet t, and that the feelings of the Canadians were in opposition
to the measure. They could not, he was sure, think of these
alternatives w thout being sensible of the care with which it
was their duty to examine the question, and of the firmness
with which they should act upon the determination to which
they should come.
Lord MONTEAGLE said, in matters of trade, as well as of
liberty, the great point rested upon individual action. He
would not follow the Noble Local who had just spoken on the
burdens of land. The Noble Lord had again referred to the
tithe twing a binder on the land. He (Lord Monteagle)
thought that this was a question so completely settled that no
rational man would have attempted for one moment to re-pro..
duce that statement. The late Mr. Sidney Smith, who was
more distinguished for his strong practical good sense than
Irs wit, put this question in a clear light.—( The Noble
Lord here quoted an extract from a pamphlet written
by the Reverend Gentleman about the time the great
excitement existed about tithes some )ears ago.
The Noble Lord then proceeded to read extracts from docu-
ments he held in his hand, to show the difference between the
agricultural and the manufacturing population, which he con.
tended exhibited a decreasing per centage of the agricultural
population, and an increasing per centage of the manufacturing
population. He next quoted from the work of a Mr. Jones,
to the same effect. He then went on to say that he would
prove to his Noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond)
that protection to all—not protection to agriculturc
merely, but to ail articles, was the greatest fallacy
that he hail ever heard of.—(Hear.) He had heard
it said that general protection was general robbery. Now he
rid not wish to use bad language, and therefore he would call
it general nonsense. Tins Noble Lord then quoted the opi-
nions of several persons who had written against the corn-
laws, in ord,r to illustrate his argument. He said he had
heard much said about the changes which had taken place in
the opinions of the Government ; but he would ask how many
Noble Lords in that House were there whose opinions had not
aleo undergone a change upon the same subject ? His Noble
Friend had cchjected to this new corn-law as an experiment ;
but he ( Lord Monteagle) would ask what were the original
corn-laws but a series of experiments ?—(Hear, hear. )
The last Bill on this step& to which they were called to ad-
here was, by his Noble Friend in 145, s,a'ed to be calculated
to lead to the result that the tenantry of Eagland would be in
fu,ure in a more prosperous condition; but at that time they
were in distress, and had exaended their capital, and would re-
quire some time to realise it. There was anther subject to
which he would refer, as it had often been referred to before—
h allu led to our dependency on foreign countries. That de-
pendency existed now, and by this law it would be removed.
In the present state of the law that dependency existed, and it
was for tb-tn to alter it by rendering the law more certain,
and less a vehicle of fraud and specula ion. His Noble Friend
had slid, that for the la t two or three tears there had been
scarcely any imt.utatinn that was an assertion against the main
argument wit ch 'tad been used, for if they required the fo-
r:latter to produce ern for this country, it was necessary to
enrourase him, and the people of this country would then be
looked upon as oustomers; but if corn was only tiaikus.r‘nnitnrottwtraandtel
we might b at fault
suspooon,
~goad be looked mein
He would apollnise to
when we most required a supply.trespassed so long, but he under-
4iips for having;
then, when immediat
wi e exigencies reaqnd t
tip ir Lord
evening. e I
H uld
that there shi old be no division that
„f ,h, I resent prop Ted
ll
th • attention of the .ou-e' to the c &els
eedo.n of rade
did tot slunk *hat perfect sr
B 11 upon Iceland. He
stood 'lust he in erfered with no one, as it had been arranged
would be prejudicial to Ireland. He would not tread
upon the
unstable ground of fixing price, for that would not be
warranted by the results of former predictions on thesubject.
,
He believed that the effect of the measure would not be so
much to diminish the general average of prcea as to diminish
the fluctuation in Ireland within a sear, or from year to year
That flletuation was m st prejudicial to Ireland, for the greater
the am flint of floc e t 1 t, th
more
it caused a greater amount
I-1
of tenderest rents. u e
was sorry to Near it t ittd that the dig.
tresses of Ireland had been spoken
of with
hsome degree of ridi.
cute ; but he wished to sayhatin his opinion,
hion, there had not
bees one Peer Who had - t '
woken without the deepest feellhoa on

The Earl of WARWICK was allowed to address the House.
He gave her Nlajesty's Government credit for the best inten-
tions in briuiting fot wat d this measure, hut he could not hel;)
enterta ning the opinion that no necessity whatever existed for
such a chancre as it conteroviated. He would ground his ob-
jections to it in the words of Lord Bacon, who said, " It is not
good to try ex- eriments in states unless good ground
exist for tre change." He denied there was any necessit3
whatever for the present Bill. A great deal was said about
the ag itat ion for it, hut the agit at ion was greatly over-rated, and
was confined to one class. It was the most blasphemous and
di gusting agitation that ever disgraced the land. The
Noble Earl then qnoted the circulars of the Anti-Corn-law
League, and an address to the electors of the country, which
contained the most 441 tmmatory and exciting remarks. For
his part, he would say " Not content" to the Bill in all its
future stages.

The Bishop of OXFORD said he would wish to explain the
reasons which influenced him to vote as he intended upon this
question. A Noble Lord had said that the House looked to
the Right Reverend Prelate on the bench he occupied for les-
sons in morality and religion ; but he did not think that the
appeal of the Noble Ma.quis who commenced this debnte was
at all calculated to promote the cause of either religion or mos
rality. He did not think that he and other Rev. Prelates sat
in that House merely for the purpose of benefiting the clergy,
but for the purpose .of the general benefit of the country.--
( Hear, hear.) It w.,s not wittioat the deepest conv'cti in, and
the most painful reflection, that he vot. d as he had tone upon
this question, and should vote in the same way upon al fu ure
stages of the Bill. He was aware that this Bill was a great
e: 'eriment ; and he would ;el, what were all great legislative
measures but experiments? And they had the authority of
Lord Bacon for saying that all such experiments were only to
be justified by the exigency of the occasion that called for
them. He would contend for it that all legislation was
only an interference with the operations of nat u• e ;
and where it was so, or where it acted so inju-
riously it should not bit permitted to exist. He
had heard a cheer from a Noble Lord; but he would ask him
did not this fact suggest itself to his mind, that in proportion
as the labourer he employed gave him value for the wages he
paid him, so did the labourer compete with the foreizn
labourer, and keep him out of the market. The Noble Lord
might laugh; but he (the Bishop of Oxford) would still con-
tinue to maintain this argument, even though the Noble Lord
should laugh to the highest pitch of eoneatination.—
( Laughter ) He had now heard the Noble Duke on the
cross h aches speak upon the subject of the 'protection ~1
aariculture, and he argued that 'irotection to agriculture would
not he the result of this measure.
The Duke of RICHMOND said that all his life he had been
devoted to the proteeti.in of agriculture.
The Bishop of OXF tRD said he might have misunder-tood
the Noble Duke's prinliples ; but he regretted that the Noble
been so clear in his..ra,rtgouomdentsßaust toit hhaav,e,
bpee.e.n..
said that all
‘D.eunkt:lhal:i:o'fromb?"'g prn'rstuencidthis me.asure wee givirg ',ay
to agitation bossaTd whoo,sth supported
°annodu,teo
atfh eLocrldasi mtsoobf
ethdee ,
eLeague;rrem
i b
y
bu e? He hail a different opinion of
such a body as the Leageuw4s
now adOetissing.—(Hear. hear.)
the a-gust asse.libly h
he would ask. wa
He
ask was that a reason i:by he clergy
of this Bill, but he would as
of their 'unities of Me, but of
was aware that a great agitation had been got up in Limur
Should be deprived, not of soy
silent on a measure when they knew
tardtheofeei an especial f=v iurite
of the sees of :.4. Asaph and Bari _or was
many of its re cessarnss? —Hear, hear.)that
tliileadßtihiletoi
.ri e
ther'r' union
ieonn
knowledgewith many
oe
fi d irig
that !]embers ea
emtb er s
hinderedo t. the Gthoey eer:imreesn.ti,?rn , Had
_ theirte
opin:on.? And, in this ca.e, why ha I they been silept? I
was because they could have no jos, ground for opposttion to
thist. measure- They had refused to joined in clamour which
alltwu aesystsol:::
ettnhoei.:g
l
and they would r •
than the rew than ne
community an examele that there
valuable mo y.,
measure, and no doubt eirmore
aannugdeleatienrcomree.warTdhereforcoulidt
the clergy .would ruffer by this
be no doubt that
which would be eaetyenwdoeudld
been said that one of the effects of tthois"mheearsculraenewso.
be included in that com-
pensationuldltbehatdo
induce the farmer to outlay a larger proportionhm
t of capital on
his farm in order to improve it, andenable
compete
with the foreign grower. The Noble Earl wiieohlod
s
the other event g (the - arl of Stanhope) had anticipated hke4
in the question which he was about to ask. The Noble Ealm-I
had. with a -implicii y of language which he would not attempt
to imitate, put the case of a man whose property was mom_
gaged to the deepest extent, and had asked, in a tine of sepul-
chral demand. •' Where is the money to come from ?"
(Laughter.) It happened to him the"other day to be inquiring
into the moral cond.rion of a certain parish, and the answer
given by the clergy was, that it was in a state of the lowest
moral degradation. He asked the reason why the principal
landowner did not interfere—loot only o 4 tlaelighet ground of

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNING, JUNE 13, 1A46.

Year /771-there had heed refl frca trade in the country, with
the
sr'xbeen :
lee:ti''i;t.fe' i;s ape-;,lion had
hNhave dr: xl'iue' r, more fradnal —if::::::e'a.hfa.7ll‘Fv'nnerP.sslaybinhvelemiaedne:l' them sen- trot,ble in earl-tine- .his measure to a conclusion, if
th..y had taken thecourse that he had adverted to lie was for
!h:•itital e.-p. al, beeause he thought it was a final act ;he trusted
this ninnwure would be passed beeliee it would restore conti-
*-elee to t.. .e commercial relations of this great country. The
N:.l,e lord might be aware that there were millions of money
lie-,,e1; up which eveuld not he in nee till this ques!ien was
fir eits *ii,pesed of. Not one eninea went out then, hut if they
it' riikkhrig this question final, and vet!iing it, every one of
teo-e guineas that were now lo ked up eould go out for the
purpose of land, for leasing property, and for improvement.
These were his reasons for supporting this question, and he
would, therefore, support the motion f.r the House going into
Committee.
The Duke of RICHMOND said that it had not been his in-
tention to take up the time if the House en that evening. and
he was, thererore, glad that he had eiven place to the evening.
and Learned Lord. anti he was the more glad of it, because,
al-hough the Noble and Learned Loro's speech was not very
full of argument, it was still an amusing di play. He should
net, h mever, have risen that night were it not for he attack
which had been made on hie by the Right Rev. P:elate ( the
Bishop of Oxford ). He had li tenet with great pleasure to
the Right Rev. Prelate. He could well understand the gratitude
whch he felt towards Sir Robert Peel. He thought the Right
Rev. Prelate shoul.l not have alluded to the meetings in the
terms he did, of the peasants drinking healths out of empty
glasses.

The Bishop of OXFORD rep to explain. Anything which
he rcidht have said lie ho ed would not be considered ac offen-
sive to a Noble Lord. With rererorwe `o the mketing_, what
he intended to say was that the proper wav to discover the real
f•elinus of the reisatitry was to follow them to their
homes, ant not to judge of !Ivir feelitig• by their manner at
these public mee logs.
he amen,iment was then wiltd•awo, and the House ad-
iourned r.t two o'clock till Monday next, when the House will
go into Committee.

uous.f- np (-;),1/1/0.); F. June 12.
The CPFAKER at FMr O.CIOCk.
NEWCASTLE UP()IN TYNE I‘II3POVEMENT BILL.
This Bill was real a third time and passed.

I the first reading of this Bill. He h.al listened, with the
closest attention, to the statement made by the Right Hon.
Baronet, end had finally,.on'Considering the circumstances put
forward, felt it his duty to give such a vote. His vote had
nut been given on account of the severity of the Bill, nor was it
on account of the inconvenience it would occasion to the dis-
trict placed under its operation. It was not on
account of the innocent persons who would he
inconvenienced, for he thought that if a Government was
convinced of the strong necessity for such a measure—if they
I did find it necessary to depart from the laws and consti-
tution of the country—it was the part of a wise states-
! man to adopt etich measures as would most speedily re-
store trarquillity. He had heard, in the first instance,
a long bead-roll of atrocious crimes committed; Ire the Go-
vernment had now changed their grounds, and the Noble Lord,
the Secretary for Ireland, had brought forward a list from
which the more atrocious crimes were carefully omitted and
the smaller species •of offences had been alleged.
; Would the Government pretend that such offences as those
alleged in the Act before him were a sufficient justi-
fication for the application of such a measure?...
would it have been done in Scotland or England? Every one
knew that the more serious crimes had been very much on the
decrease lately. Even if they were net, would such a
measure restrain those assassins who committed these
crimes in the broad noondao—(Cries of " Hear.")
The Noble Lord (the Earl of Lincoln) had admitted that a
great portion of the offences which were committed in
Ireland Sock their origin from agrarian causes. If
they had equal rights with England with regard to electo-
rial and municipal matters, and ecclesiastical arrangements,
based upon common sense, and agreeable to the
feelings of the erect majority of the people of Ireland, they
would want no coercion, nor would England hear so much of
her complaints and crimes. He believed that an Irishman
was tee contented an animal ; he thought it would
be better for his interest if he was not so. If
he had but a roof over his head, and could meet his friends
with a good basket of potatoes and salt. he would be as happy as
any Hen. Member in that House. The external situation of
the Irish people was similar to the condition of
the French peasants under their seigneurs and Norman barons
in the middle age!. The first remedy which he thought should
be adopted for this state of things was a just and equitable
arrangement of the question of compensation to tenants,
and a fair adjustment of the law of tenant rights.
Many Hon. Gentlemen had taken great interest in the waste
lands' question. He believed that by a wise legislation
on that subject much substantial goad could
be effected to the peasantry of Ireland, and a race
of yeomen raised up which, instead of becoming
convicts, would be in time an ornament to the country.
If measures of amelioration and improvement failed to produce
their proper effect, then there might be some grounds for the
strong hand of power to interpose. He hoped they would soon
see the dawn of better days and better times for Ireland. In-
deed he thought, from the present tone of the Legislature to-
wards that unfortunate country, that improvements would soon
develope themselves, and the people become more contented
with their condition, and more patient under coffering.
Mr. :st. MILNES said that the Bill had come down to them
under rather curious circumstances. It was to the moral effect
of the measure, and not to its political effects, they
had been told to look. They had further been told
that it was not desirable for them to reject the
consideration of the measure which had been proposed
to them. He conceived that of late circumstances
had changed. If the effect of the proposed Bill was to put
down the outrages which, unfortunately, had taken place in
various parts of Ireland, bow was it that the Irish Members,
who might be eupposed to be best acquainted with the means of
suppressing those outrages, were one and all of them strongly
opposed to the Bill? A measure of the present kind derived
a great deal of its authority from the parties who promoted it,
and he did hope that if the Ministers retired from office on this
unhappy question they would go with the conviction that this
measure had not been calculated to do justice to Ireland.
The direct consequences of the rejection of the Bill would be,
perhaps, the resignation of the Ministry ; but should such an
event happen, he would maintain the opinion which he had all
along maintained, that it would not be injurious
either to the Ministers themselves or to the country.
—( Hear, hear.) If the Bill were lost it would be by the
co-operation of those Hon. Gentlemen who had all along been
most severe in the policy pursued towards Ireland. He hoped
the time would come when the Irish Ministers would consider
themselves as linked in one, and regard themselves as a part of
one great and undivided empire, under the beneficent rule of
one sovereign.

Mr. P. SCROPE observed, that her Majesty's Government
contemplated a double object in their proposed measure ; viz..
to put an end to criminal outrage ; and, secondly, to protect
life in Ireland. It was said that disaffection in Ireland was a
chronic disease, but the disease did not exist in the outrages
but in the cause of them. These outrages, it was universally
admitted could not be aseribed to sectarian or political feelings;
to what cause, then, were they to be ascribed? It was to the
struggle for the means of existence which was going on among
the peasantry of Ireland. They had not a right to life; there.
fore, they endeavoured to secure that right by combinations
among themselves, which eventually led to outrage. It had
been stated that not one-sixth of the outrages were agrarian,
were not connected with land ; but it would appear by Lord
Devon's Commission that at least five-sixths were agrarian.
The evidence of Colonel Miller would not bear out the state-
went, of the Noble Lord. (The Hon. Member here referred
to the statements of the Gallant Colonel, with reference to
outrages resultng from the enforcement of the claims of con-
acre, and which he considered as purely of an agrarian cha-
racter.) The Hon. Member considered, that out of the 895
crimes alluded to by the Noble Lord in the report, as com-
mitted in the counties of Leitrim, Clare, Limerick, Ros-
common, and Tipperary, 490 of them were agrarian outrages.
Lord LINCOLN—There are 1,120 cases mentioned in the
report.
Mr. P. SCROPE had perhaps omitted a page, or by mis-
take turned over two at once. It would not, however, affect
his argument, the mistake would be as good for one side as the
other.—(Laughter.) The Hon. Member went oa to say that
he considered a considerable number of outrages, contained in
the report under the head of " cause unknown," arose
from the present high price of provisions; indeed, he
thought that nine-tenths of them could be included under
that head. Extracts were read by the Hon. Member from
the minutes of the evidence taken before Lord Devon's Com-
mission tending to show the large majority of the cases of
agrarian outrage over every other form of outrage, and the in-
disposition of persons to give evidence against any persons
committing these outrages. He (Mr. P. Scrope) contended
that the proposed measure would not stop these outrages. The
Bill was called " Protection to Life " Bill. The Government
should remember that life in Ireland was destroyed by ether
means than that of the assassin. The system of effecting
wholesale clearances such as those which had lately been made
upon Mr. Gerard's estate was literally a sentence of death
upon these poor persons. They had nowhere to go, they
could not be on the highways nor lie in the ditches. Dr. Doyle
had traced thirty families, who had been ejected by this means,
who had been compelled to crowd together in a small hovel,
where the foul air generated fever and other fatal diseases, and
in a short time only twenty-one of the thirty families were left
alive. He did not blame the landlords for making use of the
I power which the present law gave them. He blamed the law
which gave such power to the landlords, and did not afford any
protection to the helpless evicted tenantry. Landlords thought
themselves justified, and were entitled by the law to do so, if
they thoUght it beneficial to their interests, to clear their
estates of a number of their tenantry, and leave them, in con-
sequence of that Act, to starve or per4h for want. It was not
to the interest of the landlord himself that he should do so.
Such was the state of things in Ireland ; and he maintained that
while the people or that country paid their rents, and cultivated
their farms, it was most improper that they should be driven
off in the manner which bad been the case with so many. As
an illustration of how the landlords of Ireland ought to conduct
themselves, he would reter.to the case of a landlord in the
county of Kildare. who, finding that the tenants on Lis estate
could not meet their engagements or pay their rents under
their old arrangements, set about to make a new arraneement.
He did not drive the poor creatures forth, but instead of doing so,
he remodelled and consolidated his farms, and set those that were
disposed, to work on the waste lands. Not a single person
die he evict. A gentleman who visited the locality last year.
described the parties set to labour on these waste lauds as in a
very flourishing condition. Another genCeman, in the county
of Galway, in the Management of his estate, had acted in
a similar manner. This was the way in which
the landlords of Ireland ought to cleduct themselves.—
( Hear, hear.) The land of Ireland could not only support
the present population, but five times the number. Professor
Kane and Mr. Blacker had shown, that by the present system
of agriculture it could support forty millions of people. The
land, therefore, was useful for the maintenance of the people,
and the landowners ought to be coerced to allow the people to
cultivate the soil, instead of driving them forth. He had
spoken strongly on the subject, but he considered it was ne-
cessary that correct opinions should be placed before the
House on the question of the state of Ireland. The labours
of the Devon Commission, as well as all other inquiries, had
shown that the contest for subsistence, and the mode in which
property was employed,, were at the bottom of nearly all the
outrages that prevailed. He was satisfied that hefore long
public opinion would operate to bring about a healthy and
proper state of feeling ow the important question on which he
had occupied the attention of the House.
Lord BERNARD protested against the reflections employed
against the landlords of Ireland as proceeding from ignorance
of the real state of things in that ceuntrv.—(Cheers. ) He
was quite persuaded that the landlords of education and stand-
ing in Ireland were quite as well disposed to act humanely
and considerately towards their tenantry as any landlords of the
same class in this country. To show the influence for good of
the gentry of the large county in which he resided (Cork), he
would refer to a ,harge of the late venerable Judge Burton,
who in it complimented the grand jury on the peaceable nature
of the county. which he attributed to the character and con-
duct of the landlords residing in it —( Hear, hear.) But sup-
I posing the landlords of Ireland were such as the Hon. Member
for Stroud (Mr. Scrope) had described them, still that was no
valid objection to this Bill. He supported the Bill because he
honestly believed it necessary for the protection of life and pro-
perty in Ireland, and calculated to prevent the outrages of the
five counties complained of extending to the peaceable and
well-disposed counties of that country. He supported the
measure as an Irish Member, and he put it to the Noble Lord
the Member for Lynn, to consider it calmly, and not be led
away from any feeling of hostility to the policy of the Govern-
ment on another question, to deny protection to the people of
Ireland. The Noble Lord had said that crime had reduced in
Ireland since the Bill was introduced, and that the
Bill was no longer necessary • but to that
he (Lord Bernard) would say was net that improvement
sied
the result of the moral influence of the measure having
the House of Lords?—(Hear, hear.) If it were
not required
to be put into full effect, it could not be denied that the fact of
such an Act being in existence would exercise a moral and
salutary influence over the minds of the penile, and do much
to diminish the amount of outrage and crime in that country.
On these grounds he supported the Bill before the House.
The Noble Lord opposite had failed in his policy towards Ire-
land mainly because he and his party truckled to the Hon. and
Learned Member for Cork.—( Hear, hear.) That parry failed
because they abandoned the principles loch the peoole
of England had expected them
opposite mightarryou d
t ; and
en
although Honourable Gentlemen
indisputable that they
the fact, he believed it
was
late Government failed because they abandoned the
Protestant principles—( Chee rs.
andde,itarung,:tiitveer )
t—nbethceauseehuthreeny
brought forward measures most
of Ireland—(Hear)—they brought forward measures which
were considered as detrimental to the interests of the Pro-
testants of this country. ( Hear, hear.) And he would
ask Hon. Gentlemen oppo'ite whether they were prepared
to transfer the Government cl this country to ot her parties than
those who at present inherited the Crown of this country—were
they prepared to transfer the Government in accordance with
the wishes of the enemies of the Protestant Church in this
country ?—( Hear, hear.) One of the Hon. Gentlemen who
spoke the other evening the Hon. Member for Kerry._
alluded to a case which was merely of a local nature. The
Hon. Member alluded to a case which he alleged had taken
place in the county of Cork. on the subject of the Arms Bill,
and he said that the magistrates there had, in that instance,
proved themselves guilty of political partisaenhip. Now,
a statement more utterly unfounded was never uttered
in that Hewe. The simple fact of the case
was that a session of that county was held, and out of 700 ap-
pli can t s for licence to possess arms, only four were denied their
request. and of that number a few were members of the Repeal
Association—they were mostactive members of that dangerous
orgard'ation. They might say that such a measure was not
necessary, but he could not forget what hal occurred a few
pine No in the county in which b resided. tie mid sot