The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-09 00:00:00

MEE LING AT LORD JOHN RUSSELL'S.

A meeting of Liberal Members opposed to the Irish
Ministerial measures was held on Saturday afternoon, et
the resid?,nce of Lord John Russell. at Cheshom-phice.
There were present Lord Palmerston, Lord Morpeth,
Lord Mtlooarne, Lord Henry Vane, the Earl of Arundel
and Surrey, Lord Edward L,,vd t)iinettn. Loy d
Clements, Lord Ebrington, Lord Arthur Hill, Lord Mil-
ton, the Right Hon. R. L. Sheil, the Right Hon. F.
Baring, the Right Hon Edwari Ellice, the Right Hon.
T. B. Macaulay, the Right Hon. Sir John Cam Hob-
"lse, Sir Thomas Wilde, the Right Hon. Charles
Wood, the Right' Hon. H. Labouchere, the Right Hon.,
l'ox Manly, the Right Hon. Robert V. Smith, Mr.
O'Connell, Mr. John O'Connell, Sir William Clay, Sir
Charles Lemon, Sir W. Somerville, Sir Winston Barron,
the Rom Graniley Berkeley, the Hon. F. H. Berkeley,
Mr. Ward, Mr. T. Dtmcombe, the Hon. Mr. Gore, Mr.
P. Howard, Mr. Joseph Hume, Mr. Williams, Sir B.
Ball,-Mr. Hawes, Colonel Rawdon, Mr. Mitchell, Mr.
lier.rnan, Mr. Dundas, Mr. Watson, Mr. PowlettScrope,
Vyse, Sir Charles Napier, Mr. M'Carthy, Mr.
Robert Dillon Browne, Mr. Patrick Somers, Colonel
White, Mr. Hewett Bridgeman, :sir. J. M. M'Donnell,
Captain Layard, Mr. Christie, Mr. James, Mr. Banner-
man, Mr. R. M. Bellew, Sir Valentine Blake, the Hon.
Edward Bouverie, Dr. Bowring, Mr. Brotherton, the
W. Cowper, Mr. Curteis, Mr. Duff, Mr. G. Dun-
can, Sir John Easthope, Mr. Wakley, Mr. Bright, Ge-
neral Sir De Lacy Evans, Mr. F. French, Mr. Morgan
JohnO'Connell, Mr. George Moffatt, Mr. Protheroe,
.„,
J. Matheson, &c.
The meeting was held in his Lordship's dining-room.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL opened the proceedings by re-
marking that he was extremely desirous to call atten-
tion to two very important matters which were imme-
diately to come under the consideration of Parliament.
Re alluded to the Irish Coercion Bill, and the question
Of the sugar duties. He would first advert to the Co-

ercion Bill, being desirous to secure unanimity of action
Upon that measure. He was distinctly opposed to that
Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He considered its enactments most
harsh and oppressive ; and he believed that the principal
argument adduced in the House of Lords, namely, the
urgent necessity that existed for the measure, was not
borne out by the circumstances of the case. Under that
irupression, he .conceived that the further progress of
the Bill ought to be opposed in its future stages. He
thought that the best course which could be taker would be
t,_() move, on Monday, when the Bill would again
alive to be considered, its second reading that day
Months. If this suggestion met with the approval of
11311. Gentlemen present, he trusted that the debate
blight be taken upon this measure, and that the ques-
tion which .had been already so fully and so ably dis-
cussed by the Irish Members miedit be brought toaclose
at the expiration of three days.—(Bear, hear.) Any
further discussion on the Bill would be useless. He
would, therefore, suggest that such a motion as he had
j_
u'dicated should be brought forward.—(Cheers.)
„Lord CLEMENTS regretted that he could not agree in
afia course pointed out by Lord John Russell. He con-
sidered that the social c ndition o: Ireland required the
ItPPlication of coercive measures ; and, entenal,,ing thet
i'l"evic ion, h' could not - oppose The measures pi oposed by
Minise rs with reference to that couetry—
thalssetit)—altneugh at the same time he did net beiievi
t they would have the eT:et of tranquilizing the
unit or removing the causes of complaint.
I, M._ r• O'CONNELL expressed his deep gratification that
'!"-1 John Russell and lion. Gentlemen who usually
wrd with him appeared willing to adopt that course
sl'-'ll he Was convinced must ultimately promote the
self interests Interests of England.—(Hear, hear,) - lie had hire-
of _ given, notice of a motion for Monde\ 1,:u•
ticourse he should re.w withdraw it, in order that 1- e
ght not offyr any oFpo.,,ioon to the course suggested
m..!0 Noble Lord (John Russell). which had his
ust corlial approval. He regretted that upon the pre-
jute as lied been the case npr, all rin=r occasions,
i„"! Ireland's sons had been found to declare Lis
'nention of adopting a course calculated to militate
most her interests. Holding. as he did, the highe4
h:Pect for the opinions and position of the Noble Lord,
11-4 Could not but say, when he yell cted that he
Bill
stated his determination to support the
;hi. without having given any reason for adopt-
11:tstle such
a course, that his: opposition would have'
effect with the Hon. Gentlemen around him—more
e7Pecially when they considered that while the Noble
-i-tord stated his intention to sri pport the measure, he at
tthe same time said he did not think it would be found
_answer to e purposes for which it was intended.
_ ~
Td r CLEMENTS was not surprised to hear the Hon.
such ninieearnntsed Gentleman say that he disapproved of his
a a upon the subject—indeed he quite expected
The Noble Lord continued to observe,
amid is_much laughter, that if saich a state of things as that
!,el:,ting at present in Ireland were to last much longer,
landlords and the people -would find themselves in
the position of the Kilkenny cats, who carried their per-
sonal • animosities to such an extreme that they fought
nothing was left but their tails. It appeared to
trt that in Ireland they wanted to apply the reverse of
a American proverb, namely„ that every man had a
'lght to larrup his own nigger, and make the niggers
trup their masters.—(Sympto.ms of dissent.)
After a few words from Sir. W. BARRON,
Sir C. LEMON stated that he hoped Lord S. Russell
WOUld hiMself move the amendment that the second
reading be taken that day six months—(bear, hear)—
for, as cumin.' from the leader of a great. political party
'll that count) , it might have the effect of promoting
, .y
"nquillity Ireland.—(Hear...)
Lord J. RUSSELL expressed his willingness to adopt
Ile °wine suggested by the Hon. Baronet, if any object
ficial to Ireland could be gained thereby; but at the
same time suggested that perhat:is it would come more
111),Yr°Pliately from some of the Irish Members.—(Hear,
-tn.') That was a point which might, however, be re-
aerved for further consideration.
Alter some additional consatrsation, Lord Morpeth
71esocsitedalled upon, as one who ha been intimately con-
with Ireland, to move the amendment, but the
ptlewLord declined to undertake that duty.
as then agreed that the suggestions of Lord John
Itaseell should be ,adopted, and that the selectiuji of the
fortedmoverove seconder of the amendment should be re-
Lo r tad the consideration of the Irish Members.
Which
the ,
td J. RUSSELL then said that the second subject
deserved their consideratior was the question of
C.fugar duties. irtle announced that it was his intention
forPtheepoee, and tat of his art to suort, a otion
at the a'dcuission h
cif slave-erop y pp
slave-crown sugar into this country
sugar time amount of duty as was levied en free labour
Lord 'c,nut under certain restrictions. Some years sine
the e oa:nrdnn had proposed a resolution deprecatory of
11600111 'cation of the duties on slave-grown and f c!e
Wt ildr 6,,,11-4ars,.. upon the principle that such a regulation
llire live direct encouragement to slavery. This
tlpu "a", resisted by the Whigs, which the Nohlt,
oro made f( the purpose of pu- ring them out of office.
tlheY entertained esame opinions now, and intended
o
Pursue- a. course favourable to the reception o.' slave
grown ste/ar and he trusted there would be no difference
of - '
opinion, upoo the point.
The Hon. GRANTLEY BERKELEY remarked, that he
had reg,,rded the Noble Lord for many years as his
Political Reader, and on that aecouet, he regretted that
e could nut, upon the present occasion, follow his ad-
/ice or sanction the course he meant. _to. pursue regarding
the had considerable property in the
easstulgtaurfi:l„utdieeps'endHieeg upon the prosperity of the sugar
but i f foreign -slave-grown sugar were to be ad-
!riitted into this country upon the same
particularly
e terms as free-
labour sum., the consequence would_
prove
des!ructiv to his interests and to the
Binterestswil-
ling' of those
air°ilarlciveuced as he was•
hever.mst an
th
to support e principle of the Noble
44orn's resolution to the fullest extent, the British Go-
vernmentweeuld give the facilities of free labour to that,
e°l°u3', so a; 3 to enable the sugar growers to compete with
the other rn; arkets of the world.
The meet ins shortly afterwards broke up..

at Which
meeting- was subsequently held at the Reform Club,
Which it was unanimously resolved, that Sir William
Somervillepurpose
should wait upon Lord John Russell for the
it wP„°..". of No:vesting him to move the amendment ; and
..° flirthi
do' '
.r agreed, that should the Noble Lord de-
clineW, s lug i le, the amendment should be moved by Sir
The
and seconded by Colonel Rawdon.
ahoiori Irish Members also came to the resolution that,
ic. "iu the % nig measure fail, no opportunity should be
ea ear.
out the Government by delay,
and that in
pro teeth)
intent'
" nistsdid not immediately declare their
Coercion ion, du ring the c
Bits, thecourse of the debatq, of opposing the
the same opt).osittLwPuald give to it in its present stage
th t they did upon the first reading.
MEET] iNG OF ,--------ru
The protectionist Peers also E PROTECTIONISTS.
held a meeting on Satur-
day,oumseerwouy attended. Several
which was very ce
Members of t he Lower ti
most unanimity prevailed.
still by no rcett
It declared that the
were present, and the ut-
desperate ; and it
cause of Prot action is Was
oclrb,2 made in Coin-
was determin ;ed that an attempt ghouls
the diminished
toittee to 'per petuate the oppeersa,titoono,
expressed that
sliding scale. Confident ho
ec-otion to ob-
wer
even if they' s bould be defeated in this
would-be able in the forthcoming general
taio such a 1,1 feponderance in the House of
eaittemPt. they
Would insure them a continuance, if not ant)" as
ti°n, of this a ;mount of protection. a° augmenta

THE CBEs DENT- AND THE CROss. By ELTor WAa.
Bnirpox, ESQ.--Wye
observe that a fifth edition of this in-
teresting book •
bas been called for by the public. Mr. War-
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trained and het i lthful faculties. As we read, we are proud to
claim him as ft, countryman, and are content that his book
shall go over al .1 the world, that other countries from it may
derive a just impression of our national Character. Mr.
Warburton sal led up the Nile beyond the second cataract,
and inspetled those wonders of art in -Nubia, whose origin is
lost in their a ntiquity ; visited the great cities and monu-
ments of Egvc, t, then crossed to Beyrout, made a pilgrimage
in the atly Lt and, and on his homeward voyage touched at
eSPress and (i reece. His volumes are full of just perception
i,
and spirited d They greatly increase our acquaintance
•!‘ th
Eastern scenes, arid to the traveller afford a variety of
,
;r"rniation which be could hardly elsewhere find in so in-
eresting a s' gape.—Britannia.
11"7N1 ,D wfilIST BATHING.—On Sunday morning,
seatsere o'clock, a young man named Thomas Snake, of
Porl.land-street,-t, was drownel whilst bathing in the
Pentine -
John A S.hortly at ft- rwar an,ther young man, named
tho_ who could not swim, got out of his depth, and
ctrica ted whilst alive, his system was so severely
Ist be io not expected to stuntiVe.

DIPEit L. I' A. T.
LIOUSE OF LORDS, June 8.
Their Lordships met to-day at Five o'clock.
THE BROAD AND NARROW GAUGES.
The Earl of RIPON laid on the table a report from the
Board of Trade relative to the subjec' of the railway gauges.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Alessenger. from the House of Commons brought up several
Bills, which were ordered to be laid on the table.
BATHS AND WASH-HOUSES FOR THE LABOUR-
ING CLASSES.
The Bishop of LONDON wished for a few moments to
direct the attention of their Lordships to a subject, which,
though not one of great political importance, was still one en-
titled to grave consideration. lie had some petitions to present
to them which were important on account of the signatures to
them, but still more so on the subject to which they related.
That subject was intimately connected with the welfare of the
labouring classes, and he craved their favourable consideration
.
btoatthe andhem. Twhesehpe-htoiutisoenes
forh the had
ireflearbeonucring e to
ichlaesesessta,baln"rhl establishment
teodf
that they would pass a law enabling boroughs
a certain size, to borrow money to formeeaenhd parishes,
institutions.of
that might be laid out upon it, but he mustt
attemptre
The plan was suffieient to pay an ample return for the capitalied
o
their Lordships that it was . useless
ituog
paidof somethe
etliaebno,ui,,r;
the
sc,omnedittiimone.
to their physical comfort. Their Lordships might in vain
cilmaspsreosveunlestshetheymaotral
at-
tempt to improve the political and social condition of the
labouring classes, unless they at the same time took the
trouble to promote their individual and personal interest.
(Hear.) They must first remove the poor man from his
extreme state of destitution, and then they might
endeavour to experiment upon the best means of improving his
spiritual condition—they must relieve him from his extreme
misery before they attempted to attack his as a moral agent,
and this was th6e only way in which they could at all
expect, with any reason, to improve the moral state
of the labouring classes of society. Their Lordships would allow
they had tested by experience, on a mall scale it was true, but
still sufficient to justify their making the experiment on a much
lariter scale. In asking, therefore, for an allowance from the
public funds, he was only asking for that which would
make a large return on the outlay of capital that
might be used for the formation of baths and washhouses
The first petition he bad to present was from the bankers and
merchants of London, and was signed by the heads of more
than 100 principal firms ; the second was signed by the Chair-
man and Deputy Chairman of the London Dock Company,
who had many thousands of labourers in their employ-
ment. The next was from the churchwardens and over-
seers of St. Martin's-in-the-Fields. The next was from the
guardians of the poor of the same parish. The next was
from the perochial clergy of the metropolis, signed by 120
clergymen ; and be felt assured that if time had been allowed
it would have been signed by every member of the body from
whom it emanated, for they felt it would be bring-
ing the poor more within the sphere of their spiritual
ministrations, and would tend more than anything else to
improve the labouring classes. It should be recollected
that great complaints had been made that hundreds of
thousands in the metropolis were crowded together,
so that one family occupied one room ; but, in consequence of
the numerous improvements in the metropolis, in many of these
instances, there were now two families crowded into one
room. It did not appear that any provision had been
made against this evil in carrying out those improve-
ments. It should be also recollected that the step
which he now advocated was only as a drop in the ocean.
In consequence of this system of things, a gradual deteriora-
tion had taken place in the physical and moral condition of
these classes. About twenty years since, when he was a
parish clergyman, he knew a house in which there was
sixteen rooms, and in each of these there was a family
consisting ofj four persons, in all, sixty-four individual.,
but that was not so bad as the present condition of things. In
houses thus thickly inhabited it would clearly be seen the in-
jury which must be felt by washing the linen of the family,
as the houses would be in a constant state of humidity from
the steam. He found that in the town of Liverpool, where
an institution of this kind was established under the sanction
if the corporation of that place, the greatest eagerness was
manifested on the part of the working classes to avail them-
selves of the benefit of the bath. In the year ending 28th of
May, 1846, there were used 3,832 cold baths, and 16,764
warm baths, making altocether 20.596 baths. The receipts
fir the year were 383/., being an increase on the
preceding sear of 6,667 baths, and 1501. on the receipts.
This showed a desire on the part of the labouring classes to
avail themselves of the belie its of these institutions. A
similar institution was established lately by an association of
benevolent individuls in Glasshouse-yard, a locality where
probably none of their Lordships ever penetrated—
( Laughter)—and the lowest and poorest classes of
society, who could not even be called respectable la-
;ewers, were in the habit of resorting to it.
In the second half-year the number of bathers amounted to
14,124, and the number of washers amounted to 19,937, a total
of 63,142 persons t enefi td; if to these were added the number
ef persons for whom articles have been washed, you
will make a total of 87.0:0 directly benefited.
and the whole of this goad had been done
fl.r a sum net greatly exceeding 40w. He need not point out
to their Lordships the immense beneficial effects which must
necessarily arise from snob institutions, they were sufficiently
known to their Lordships, and he would not there.
fore trespass upon them further than to quote the opinion
of a medical man of some experience on the subject.
The petitioners stated that the returns would, in all probabi-
lity, amount in the whole to 1.3 i per cent., and furnish ex-
cellent interest on the capital invested. The petitions were
from a large number of merchants, bankers of the city of
London ; the Chairman and Deputy Chairman of the Asso-
ciation for the Establishment of Baths for the La-
bouring Classes; from the Board of Guardians of the
parish of St. Martins-in-the-Fields;_ one signed by 121 paro-
chial clergymen, which was entitled to special consideration, as
they complained that the want of accommodation for forward-
ing personal cleanliness, interfered with the attendance of the
pourer classes at church. He hoped steps would be taken to
meet this state of things, and that the recreation and innocent
amusement of the labouring classes, which had been so little
attended to for a long time, would he now considered.
Unless they provided baths and wash-houses for the poorest
order of the working classes, so as to beget habits of cleanliness,
it would be vain for them to provide amusement and instruc-
tion for them by museums or otherwise.
The Marquis of NORMANBY thought that the Rev.
Prelate owed no apology for introducing so important a sub-
ject. It was a most important question, and in con-
nexion with a subject that had been before the other
House of Parliament—the dwellings of the poor—
one entitled to their greatest consideration.—(Hear, hear.)
The Right Rev. Prelate was the first to draw the attention o(
the Government to this question and he deserved great praise
for his exertions, and he trusted that he would not confine himself
to simply erecting baths and washhouies, but go to further
improvements necessary to the health and well being of the
poorer ch-sses of this metropolis.
Lord KINNAIRD said that it was impossible to imagine
the distress and misery existing in this metropolis—it required
occular proof to give any one an idea of its extent. The poor
were crowded together in consequence of the improvements
taking place in other parts of the metropolis. There were
buildings new going on at Bethnal-green, and there was not
one sewer provided for them, and this, he thought, showed
the necessity, and, indeed, he considered it high time that a
Board of Health should be established.
ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.
Lord KINNAIRD said he had to present a petition on the
Electric Telegraph Bill, the report of which was to be brought
up this evening.
The Duke of BEAUFORT objected to its reception, as
being needless.
Lord KINNAIRD said that the petition was based on public
grounds.
Lord BROUGHAM—Give us its prayer.
Lord KINNAIRD said that this was a subject of great
public interest, and the object of this petition was to prevent
the carrying of this Bill wiamut further consideration. The
petition was not opposed to the Bill itself, but, according to
the prayer, to provide for its being carried out. From these
statements, it appeared, that if the Bill were carried in its
present form, it might prevent the improvement of the
system ; for if they gave the power sought by this
Bill, it would assuredly create a monopoly. This evil
had already been largely felt by the wat-'r and gas companies.
The report was to be brought up this evening, and he thought
that if a clause were to be introduced at some firure stage of
the Bill, obliging all companies to give this advantage to the Go-
vernment, it would in a great degree hinder the mischief which
the petitioner anticipated, and he should move that the petition
be referred to the Committee.
The Duke of BEAUFORT stated that the report had
already been brought up, and the object of the petition had
already been answered. The petition indeed had been pre-
sented, and had been fully considered by the Committee.
CORN-LAWS.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from Durham
praying their Lordships to pass the Corn Bill as speedily as
possible. He considered it would be of great benefit to the
agricultural portion of the people of that county.
ethechpaertgiteiron.whTichhe NhaodblebAeelanrqubisroduegfehntdeadgahiinmeselfhaimgainostf
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY concurred in the prayer
ofth
having changed his principles and formed an alliance with the
Anti-Corn-aw League.p, tie bad always stated,
she r
d, b,eepehial in P
and private, that no Ministry
could lung r
ofu bthfiec
corn-laws.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAAI, who was alluded to by the
Noble Marquis. briefly explained.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM then gave notice that in the
Committee on the Corn. law Bill he would move that the words
4, until the first of February, 1849," should he omitted.
Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from a place
whose name we could not catch in favour of an immediate
repeal.
LONDON AND RAILWAY YORK BILL.
The Earl of LOVELACh brought up the report upon this
Bill, and moved for the discharge of the Committee. They
had been now nineteen days at work, and they had passed all
the unopposed Bills.
Lord BM)UGHAM considered that the proposition was a
very reasonable ow:, but he considered that it would be better
to defer it till Friday next. '
Lord VIVIAN objected to such a course. He did
think that the Committee bad strong claims upon the consi-
deration of their Lordships' House, after having now sat for
nineteen days, and particularly when their Lordships recol-
lected that in all the other Committees of their Lordships'
House, not one of them had such a number of
Railway Bills be fore them as had occupied, or would
halfoccupy fact, and
the time. He was aware of this -
fore b
Lordships would accede to the e trusted their
propo-
sition.
The Earl of DEVON said he felt quite assured that the
of that House
A
Committee whose .uty it was to select members
Committees, would consider the subject with the
to serve on
anxiety it deserved.
Lord REDESDALE said it was not the duty of the Com-
mittee-who arranged those railways i'n groups to consider the
the request
question. At the same time he should admit that
and that it
made by the Committee was a reasonable
on
would be easy to refer the Bills before that Committee to
another one. No doubt it might be urged that
a great deal of the evidence upon some of those Bills had already
been heard by that Committee • but then he did not think
that the conside •of few ' additional expense which
ration a says
would be incurred by referring theßills
to another Com-
mittee should be an
suggested that the _ any reason for refusing the request. He
next. House should decide upon it on Thursday
Earl FITZ WILLIAM
him to open a much wider said, that the question appeared tits
of absence
for consideration than the mere
question of giving leave
therefore it should be considered
disence to that Committee, and
as oneof very great importance.
They could no longer go on n
could not allow the opportunity
the present system, and he
y to pass without observing how
inefficient were the present
means of conducting and important system of national intercourse the great
Lord BROUGHAM agreed with the Noble Lord as to
necessity of a new and independent department, rthe
to supersede but to aid the Parliament, in its investigati 2,0
into these Bills. It would be of more satisfaction to the
country, and to the promoters of these Bills, that a department
should be set apart, to which all private Bills ought to be re-
' ferred.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE was convinced that some new ma-
chinery should be adopted to facilitate railway business in
Parliament. He entirely agreed with the Noble Lord optic).
site (Earl Fitzwilliam) that a change was necessary. Li
i them look to the progress of the present Bill. It was intro,