The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-13 00:00:00

the suhje• t, but some levity might have been caused by the
long continuance of a debate calculated to excite so much
deep feeling, and, in their ccoler moments, they were, there-
fore, more disposed to listen to stories about the humbug of
Irish famine. One wcrd before he sat down, thanking their
Lordships for having given him so much of their attention. It
Wei said that concesiions of trade were all on one side, and this
country got Nothing in return from foreign nations. But the
question for them to consider was whether their example would
not produce its effects on foreign states in inducing them to make
cone •ssiees on their part. Now, the experience of the past
proved to them that it did. In 1824 the corn-laws stood in
the way of conce.sions. which the United States were ready to
make to this country about that. time. Again, in the case of
Prussia, the corn and timber duties were the only obstacles in
the way of amicable commercial arrangements between that
country and this ; and these obstacles always would exist so
long as a petty protective system prevailed in England. He
had already stated he did not anticipate any great reduction
in prices from the adoption of this measure, and many great
arid eminent authorities agreed with him in this opinion
The effect he anticipated it would have would be to regulate
the trade of this country with all the world, but more par-
ticularly to regulate the corn trade. But then it might be
asked what good the measure could do if it did not reduce
prices ? Why, it would have the great good of placing the
trade of this country on a sure and safe footing, and protect
it from !nose distinctions which the disputes of nations had of
late so often thrown in its way.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY said, having intruded on a'former occasion
at an extreme length on their Lordships' attention, he did not
again intend to present himself before their Lordships, but
after the pointed manner in which the Noble Lord who had
just sat dawn had addressed some of his observations to
him, he felt it to be his duty to offer a few words in
reply.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") And in the outset he
might remark, that this was the first time an attempt had been
made to reply to a speech he delivered a fortnight ago, but for
his own part he did not feel that he should be justified In allow-
ing a single moment to pass by without pointing out some of the
inconsistencies which the Noble Lord's reply presented. Ia
the first place the Noble Lord argued as if he rested the de-
fence of the protective system upon the wisdom of their an-
cestors, and to some extent he admitted that he did. But the
Noble Lord brought forward a particular Act of the reign of
Edward IV-, by which protection, which existed even at that
time, was abolished. The Bill, however,
to which his Noble
Friend had alluded, related to the internal, and not to the
foreign trade of the country. It related to parties who were
subject to their own legislation, and under their own control,
and it was rather too bad that his Noble Friend should have
suppressed that fact.--( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had
said free trade ought to be the rule, and protection the
exception; while a Right Reverend Prelate had remarked that
the nearer their legislation approximated to a state of nature,
the more perfect it became. Bat, unfortunately, in this world
they could not always reach a state of nature, and before
they could establish free-trade upon this principle, all men and
all nations must come under the same control. It was a very
good theory, he admitted, but in legislating upon it they must
take into consideration the difficulties which were in the way
of its being put in practice. Arguing in this way was just the
saine as a man saying he had discovered or invented an inge-
nious system of perpetual motion, without taking into considera-
tion the action of the air and atmosphere on his invention.
The Noble Lord then proceeded to express his astonishment,
that he had defended the sliding-scale, but he did not impugn
his arguments, which proved that the sliding-scale had pre-
served a sliding in the market; he did not preve that his argu-
ments were false.—( Hear, hear.) Could it be shown that
Prussia had reduced her duties on English cotton when they
reduced their timber duties ? She had not, and they had no
reason to suppose that if they reduced their duties on cora,
that it would lead to a reciprocation from other countries. He
was much surprised to hear from his Noble Friend, the Under-
Secretary of Orate for the Colonies, that they were to be con-
sidered mere as an outlet for the overflow of the population of
the country. But if he lo.:ked upon the colonies in such e
light he would tell them that they were useless. Nay, they
were less so, they were a burden. But they were not so. They
were for the purpose of extending their commercial cone
nexions. The Noble Lord said he was addressing
the House under disadvantages because the mails':
were not received from Canada.—(Hear, hear.) Why, be
would with nothing better than that they should wait—Arad
that they should wait uetil the country had declared upon the
ineseure.—(Loud cheers.) Had they consulted Lnrd Met-
calf ? He believed that they had not. He was not aware what
his opinions were respecting the measure, but he did not think
that they were tavourable to the measure. Let them look to
the feelings of the Canadian Legislature—let them see the
opinions of the Attorney-General and Solicitor-General of
Canada, and they would see how they received the measure;
they would find that they declared that it was fraught with
ruin to the Canadas, and left no resource to them but to
throw themselves into the arms of the United States.—(Hear')
The distress in Ireland did not arise from want of food, but
from the want of employment. The want of employment
begot mutiny, which prevented the introduction of capital,
and the consequent circulation of money which it
would produce.—( Cries of o Hear, hear.") They bad
in Ireland an impoverished landed proprietary, with heavily
mortgaged estates ; and what were they about to do ? They
were about to reduce, at least temporarily, the price of corn ;
for he believed that their one-sided free trade would produce
the greatest fluctuation, sometimes causing great temporary
diminution of price, and at other times raising it to an extrava-
gant Height. Such would be the greatest evil the labourer could
endure, a: their wages were fixed generally by an average, and
not by a fluctuation. And he believed that the landlords would
not be affected by the measure in so great a degree as it was
imagined by some. He considered that it would press heavier
upon the labouring classes, and, with that feeling, he opposed
it. This measure was not only injurious from its tendency on
the price of corn, but it was also injurious on the grounds of its
interference with the incomes of the clergy. The church
would have been better provided for had not the Commutation
Act passed into a law, for then they would have had an in-
terest in the improvement of the land. There was a vast dd.-
ference between the parochial clergy and the Right Reverend
Bench.—( Hear, hear.) The parochial clergy were dependeset
on the price of corn, while, on the other hand, the Right
Rev. Bishops had their incomes fixed.—( Hear, hear, and "No,
no.") There was one interest which would derive a benefit
from this Bill, namely, that it would increase the price of
money one-fifth, and the effect of this would be to increase the
national burdens of the country in connexion with the
national debt.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
One Right Rev. Prelate said that this Bill would have the
result of keeping alive the hopes of the people. He warned
their Lordships against any such fallacious course as this.—
( Hear, hear.) Hope long deferred maketh the heart sick.—
(Hear, hear.) It was a dangerous thing to feed up the hopes,
of the people. It was a most pernicious thing to feed tke
people with sweetened hopes, which, when disappointed, would
be found to be worse than any evils which might other-
wise arise, even supposing those evils to exist,
which he contended did not exist.—(Hear, hear.)
He warned their Lordships against the measure before
the House.—( Hear, hear.) Many of their Lordships were in-
clined to look upon this measure as one which should not call
for their opposition, because it was to be passed whether they
should vote or not. He should be sorry to say that they should
not bow to the decision of the Legislature, bat they should
bear in mind that they would, by voting for the measure, be
voting against their consciences.—( Hear, hear.) If this was
a measure which was necessary to the preservation or well-
being of the country, why was not the opinion of the country
taken upon it ?—( Hear. hear.) In a short time it would be
necessary to take the voice of the people, and why not wait
for that ?—(Hear, hear.) If it were demanded by
the country at large, it would then be high
time to answer that demand—but even if the whole
voice of the peoele declared in favour of it, he questioned whe-
ther they could then leave the agriculture of this coun'try'
without protection.—t Hear, hear.) If, however, it was to
become the law of this country, if they were to pass that law,
after the veice of the country was taken upon it—(Hear, hear)
—they could then bow to that demand of the country with at
good grace.--( Hear, hear.) He warned them, however,
against passing tee present measure without being backed by
the demands of the people. It was not asked for by the nation
at large, but, on the contrary, it was opposed; and, if it woo
desired, let the question be tried at once.—(Loud cheers.)
Earl GREY, amidst considerable cries of adjourn, and
much confusion, rose to address the House. After order had
been restored the Noble Lord proceeded. The Noble Lord
who had last addressed the House commenced his speech by
alluding to that side of the House, and charging the Noble
Lords who were in favour of the measure with not having:
answered the arguments advanced by the Noble Lord on ai
former occasion. He (Earl Grey) considered that the Noble
Lord's speech had been answered by his Noble and Learned
Friend (Lord Brougham). It was true his Noble and
Learned Friend had not gone into all the arguments advanced
by the Noble Lord, but those which he did follow he (Earl
Grey) was of opinion that he had succeeded in tearing the
Noble Lord's arguments to tatter:. He would not at that
late hour follow his Noble briend through all the details of his.
speech. His Noble Friend however had referred to one point
which he would just glance at. He said that the late slidiog-
scale had been productive of steady prices. tee (Lord Grey)
denied that such was the fact, ter in coutrasticg the
prices of this country with foreign countries, he
took the Gazette price for wheat in this country and the
market price for corn abroad.---( Hear, hear.) This made a
very material difference, and operated most injuriously for
foreign prices, as compared with prices in this eountty.
Hrs
Noble Friend had also referred to Ireland. His argument,
however, on this head was very untenable, for they had no
right to keep up the price of land in Ireland by a continuation
of these protective duties. If there was one part of the king-
dom more than another which would be benefited by the re-
moval of these restrictions, that part was Ireland. Every one
emitted that excessive competition in land was the great bane
of Ireland, and it required no argument to show that this great
evil would be abated by the repeal of the corn-laws.
Lord BROUGHAM hoped that his Noble Friend (Lord
Stanley) would no longer say that his speech was i,erniaennsdweredi
After the excellent reply just made by h
Grey), that brilliant effort would be no
e part of that
longiseNreigayrded as having
passed without an answer, inasmuch assatisfacrtonly refuted.
elaborate harangue had beenabs
mostord blunders he had ever
One of the most irregular an
hadfa been committed that night
subject under discussion. 'he
heardb
y the
'Well, let them admit it ; but the Noble
admit its; of corn after
rising th tihne t ehxecvespltni oen of ofns nbnuely-
Noble Lord said th_ere.
thewith the tall in the price of corn the •
committed
Noble Lor ond any subject
athtedbs oe i
price of
fall, with
all other commodities passing Lord a ded 'othtal
7o..millore absurd than this—he was going.
bul-
lion ; and do
of wouldprices ant
gu me ex np tl
explained
ed couldtha
that
ohteb ecal
meantled
that
called?—(Hear, ea r
thepublic
Id add a fifth to all burdens._( Hear, hear. ) Now,,
could anything
to ,say
9 falling
the ,dioney
of those who had fixed incomeswould • •
a r Von; dent
STANLEYbuta
would do so in this way. The prices of
rise in value, and it
corn and commodities
having fallen, a person with a fixed •
income could get for his
money double what he got before.
Lord BROUGHAM replied that he took it in that light,
but how could the falling of prices add to the burdens of the
man who had a fixed income? Here was the absurdit and he
was glad the House • it with him. Y.,
perceived
they lived in the times of he a representative Government, while
denounced the unconstitutional principle of those who were
represented interposing, after they had delegated their trust to
the Ministry to settle particular questions, not only for theta-
aelves, but for those whom they had elected as their represen-
tatives.—( Hear, hear.) This, in his opinion, was the greatest
evil that could fall on a country governed by a representative
Government, and he felt it his duty to warn the protectionist
party that they were by their present course generating the evil.
Well, then, it was said that an appeal was to be made to the
people by dissolving the Parliament; and i.t would be said that
that appeal was to be made upon a most important question;
but the intrigues of party made the most trumpery question
a question of " paramount importance." The Maynooth
grant was made a question of " paramount importance ;" but
though there was no dissolution of Parliament, many Mem-
bers resigned their seats, and when they went down to their
constituents they were not sent back to Parliament.--(Heart
hear.) The speech of his Noble Friend, Lord Monteagle,
had been mentioned, not as an answer to that of the Noble
Lord opposite, but only as an attempt at an allusion to it--
(Laughter)—and still it was a speech in defence of those who
had changed their opinions.
Lord STANLEY—No; but who had changed their votes.
Lord BROUGHAM—WeII, then, he would adopt the dis-
tinction, but it reminded him of that which an old maid once
insisted on, who did not wish to be called an old maid, but an
elderly unmarried lady.—( Laughter.) His reason for pre-
ferring the total repeal of the corn-laws, against which he was
fully aware there were several arguments—among others the
extent of the experiment, for ho was sensible that since the