The Sun.
London, England, 1848-03-21 00:00:00

Tc:E SON, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 21, 1848.

uleiou:l—(lfear, hear, and laughter)—for while he had
attached him in the manner he had alluded to, he had

ments.

. _
at the :tune time not only proposed the navy estimates
for the present year, but he had actually provost d those
for the ensuing year, and had in consequence, cut off all
use for any inquiry into the navy estimates, by thßCom-
mittee appointed tor that purpose. The Hon. Gentle-
man had told the House. on the authority of Lord Auck-
land, that on the navy estimates for the ensuing years
1549 50, a saving of 600,0001. could be effected, and
that being the case, what was the use of any Committee
investigating into the subject, as the whole matter of
effecting a saving in these estimates lay with the Go-
vernment, and unless the Government carried such out,
it would never be done. Therefore, if Government
was to abide by the estimate for the present year, and
said that no saving could be effected, and that next year
a saving would be effected to the amount he had stated,
but to no greater or less extent, he must say, if such
Was the determination of the Government, he for one
should utterly despond of any good result flowing from
any investigation of a Committee of that House into
the subject of these estimates.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Gentleman had told the House that he had placed this

question of naval expenditure upon the same footing as
it had been placed by the late and previous Governments.
lie had told them that Sir Robert Peel's Government,
from 1841 up to 1846, had year after year asked for and
obtained an increase in these estimates, and had argued
that in the then circumstances of the country, an in-
crease in these estimates was allowed, much more now,
in the present circumstances of the country, ought their
expenditure in that respect to ba progressive.—(Hear,
hear.) Ile had also contended that if the Goverment of

Lord Grey required at one period to increase their esti-
mates, much more now, in the altered circumstances of
the country, was the present Government justified in
doing so. Let the House, however, refer to the facts
of the case. When Sir Robert Peel's Government came
into power, in 1841, they found the China war com-
menced—imperfectly commenced—" dragging its slow
length along"—not likely soon to be concluded—and
the Government took active and immediate measures to
hring it to a conclusion; and he was happy to say that
hese had the effect of doing so in the most satisfactory
manner. But these measures were attended with great
expense, which necessarily caused an addition to the
expenditure.—(Hear, hear.) So much then for the
estimates of 1842. In regard to 1844, the middle
year of the Right Honourable Baronet's Government, it
was yell known that during that year a very serious
misunderstanding took place between the Government of
this country and the French Government in regard to
Otaheite, so that it was found necessary to keep up their
naval force, and in some degree to augment it, in
case of an outbreak. Then, in regard to the esti-
mates of 1846 being the highest naval estimates which
the Government of Sir Robert Peel moved fer, were
there no circumstances which led to an increase being
then demanded? Why, he could state to the House
that the very last official act of his Right Hon. Friend,
when he brought his statement, after giving in his re-
,ignation to her Majesty, was the laying upon the table
documents to satisfy the House that the long-pending
dispute between this country and the United States of
America, with respect to the Oregon territory, had been
finally and satisfactorily settled.—(Cheers.) So long
as that dispute was pending the country was obliged to
keep up a large naval force; and especially in the year
1846, when it was feared that the dispute would give rise
to an outbreak between the two countries; and in fact
as regarded all naval estimates, the amount was to be
judged of from the circumstances of the times in which
they were voted, and from the just amount of force which
the exigencies of those times required. That then had
brought him to the circumstances in which they were at
present placed, and to the consideration of the estimate
before the House. No doubt, in regard to these, her
Majesty's Government was involved in considerable
difficulty, and, from the nature of events they:had to deal
with, were obliged to observe much caution and reserve,
for, in fact, the voting those estimates from year
to year did resolve itself more or less into a vote
of confidence in the Government of the day.—(Hear,
hear, and cheers.) The Noble Lord at the head of the
Government, when he first introduced the subject of
these estimates to the notice of the House, did in the
roost manly, plain, and candid manner open up to the
House the peculiar circumstances in which the country
was then placed, and the statement of them made by the
Noble Lord confirmed him in the belief that the naval
force sought for by the Noble Lord was not larger than
the safety and the interest of the country demanded.—
(Hear, hear.) That was the view he took at the time
the Noble Lord made his statement, and he, as an indi-
vidual Member of the House, would exercise his privilege

of stating his individual opinion in regard to those cir-
cumstances as they then stood, although Government
might, from matters of policy, be deterred from doing
so in so detailed a manner. He concurred that a con-
tinental power—France, for instance—which had a
large standing army, was absolutely necessary for the
safety of the State, and that the fact of such powers
keeping up large standing armies was not in the least
calculated to excite jealousy on the part of Great Britain.
—(Bear, hear.) On the other hand, any great naval
preparations on the part of France, she not having many
colonies to guard or to protect, and having no use for
any great display of naval power, was calculated to have
a different tendency; and, therefore, any great naval ex-
penditure on the part of that country, whether in regard
to ships, the construction of ports, or of defences in the
Channel, would not Appear a defensive policy. For him-
self, he could not fail to regard it as an offensive policy,
e ell calculated not only to excite the jealously of Go-
vernment, but to excite the patriotism of the representa-
tives of the people in that House.—(Cheers.) Ile con-
fessed that the misunderstanding in 1544 which arose
between France and this country was greatly aggravated
by the publication of a pamphlet, on the steam marine
of France, by one of the sons of the late King of that
country, and the suggestions thrown out in which were
adopted for the most part by the French Government.
At that time immense naval preparations were made by
France. War-steamers innumerable were built,
and a large number of line of-battle ships,
while the harbours and defences along the
Channel were extensively repaired and strengthened.—
( Ilear, hear.) Now, in such circumstances as that, he
did think Government would have been neglecting its
duty, and would have been guilty of risking the honour
and the independence of this country if they had failed
to protest against this reckless expenditure, and the ex-
tensive display of naval power on the part of France.—
(Loud cheers.) In a time of profound peace, it that
system was persisted in on the part of France, he could
not see how some preparation was not to be made on the
part of this country, in order to meet it.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord at the head of the Government had
stated the exact case. He had said that were a war
arising between the two countries, a new element must
be introduced to it, in consequence of the number of war
steamers now afloat. France had not only prepared a
large number of steam-vessels, which gave her
extensive means of communication, with which she
could sweep the Channel, and convey troops; but she
had to all her principal ports in the Channel, lines
of railway, communicating with the interior of the
country, where she had a large standing army stationed,
and which could by such means, if called on to act, be
conveyed to this country with the least possible delay.
—(Hear, hear.) They must recollect also that a country
acting on the offensive had an opportunity of concentrat-
ing its forces, which a country acting on the defensive
had not, as the latter must dispose of its forces so as to
be prepared for an attack on those points which it con-
eeived the enemy was most likely to operate against ;
and as it was on the defence that Britain always stood,
he was satisfied that were France to attempt an attack
on this country, the battle of the national dependence
would not be fought in the British Channel by their
ships of war, but on the soil of their own country.—
(Hear, hear.) He did, therefore, think that the course
proposed by the Noble Lord, at the time it was proposed,
was the one which circumstances required should be
followed.—(Hear.) lie would not now go into a discus.
sion as to the altered circumstances which had since
taken place.—(Hear.) His prayer was that the peace
of the world might be maintained.—(Hear.) His be-
lief was, that by the power of British influence it would
be maintained; but he would say this, that if it was con-
sidered unwise a month ago to diminish the naval force,
this was not the time that the right arm of their strength
ought to be paralysed or shortened in the least degree.—
(Cheers.) Ile had said thus much with regard to the
number of men, though, with regard to the amount of
the estimates, he considered that after due consideration
a slight reduction might be made.—(Hear, hear.) If
these estimates were submitted to a full investigation he
was certain that, without diminishing a man, a reduction
could be made in them. lie should continue to do his
duty on the Committee which had been ap-
pointed for the consideration of them, and he was
sure that Committee would endeavour to reduce not only
the navy, but also the army estimates; and he was more
sanguine than his Hon. Friend the Secretary to the Ad-
miralty as to the saving they would be enabled to effect.
That saving must, however, be carried out by the
Government, and he had no doubt but that
the Government would do their best to carry
out any saving the Committee might point out a 5
likely to be effected. In regard to the distribution
of their naval force, the squadron in the Tagus had been
much talked of; and in regard to that station, he could
not help stating a fact whicla if coming from himself,
might be of little consequence, but cowing from the au-
thority it did, he considered it to be worthy of all re-
spect. He well remembered Sir Thomas Hardy telling
him, as the result of observations and surveys made by
himself and Lord Nelson, that the Tagus was regarded
in this country ac the most important naval station in
Europe.—(Cheers.) That for all purposes of defence it
was far superior to the Cove of Cork, for while on the
one side it commanded the Gut of Gibraltar, on the other
it jutted out to the west, and protected their %Vest India
islands, while it rendered the chops of the Channel
almost invulnerable,--(Hear, hear.) No station was
better available for Mediterranean or Channel service,
and therefore it ought never to be without a squadron
stationed its it. With respect to the squadron on the
coast of Arica, he thought that was a question which
might deserve consideration.—(Hear, hear.) There
was also a considerable force in the River Plate, and
in both of these reductions might be made, but they
could not be so all at once. It required time to do so,
and he had no doubt but, in the course of the year, Go-
vernment might make some safe reductions, without at
all endangering the efficiency of the force.—(Hear,
hear.) While, therefore, upon the whole, he thought
that, in the course of some time, a reduction might be
made in the estimates, he could not at present consent
to the reduction of a single man.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WARD explained that, in the remarks he made,
he had not the least intention of superseding the labours
of the Committee of which the Right Hon. Baronet was
so efficient a member ; and he was sure Government
would do their best to carry out any suggestions the
Committee might make to them.—(clear, hear.)
Lord SEYMOUR said he was as anxious to keep down
expenditure as any one, but he thought this was not the

time to make any reduction in tho army or navy depart-

NT• 1111
13e0L INGESTRE and Mr. COBDEN rose at the same
time. There were loud calls fur the latter, but he gave

way to
Viscount INGESTRE, who said, as he belonged to
the profession which was under the discussion of the
house, he did not like to vivo a silent vote on the sub-

ject. The question they had to consider was not one of
detail, but of national policy as to whether they were
to retain intact that great arm of their power, the navy.
He thought no reduction ought to take place, and, not-
withstanding the depression of the country at the pre-
sent time, he was sure the country would not submit to
any reduction considering the commotions which were
taking place throughout, Europe.—(Hear.) He espe-
cially advised the Government, if they meant to main
tain the navy in an efficient state, that they should not
tamper with the navigation laws. The mercantile ma
rine was the source upon which we must always mainly
depend for the proper manning of the navy.—(Hear,
hear.) With respect to the inventions of Captain \Var-
ner, he had upon full investigation come to the con-
clusion that the adoption of these inventions would not
only be a saving of a great deal of money, but prevent
the effusion of a vast deal of bloodshed. Ile believed

that if the question was fairly inquired into this would
be found to be the case. He challenged any man in
the House or the country to say that the destruction
of the ship at Brighton was not conducted fairly and
honourably, and that, of course, similar results could not
in future be easily produced.—(Cheers, and " Oh.")
His Lordship proceeded to read a letter from Captain
Warner, stating his readiness to be examined on oath
before a Committee of the House, and would undertake
to show how a saving of upwards of 3,000,0001 might
be effected in the nary tolone.—(A laugh.) That letter
showed how anxious that individual was for a fair in-

♦estigation, and he should feel himself wanting in his
duty if he did not manfully support a man who he be-
lieved could render serious benefits to his country. The
Noble Lord, after expressing his determination to sup
port the Government in its measures to preserve the
force necessary for the security of property and the
maintenance of our free institutions, said, before he sat
down, he must notice the remarks of the Hon. Member
for the West Riding, as to the distribution of the navy
and the conduct of the officers. He trusted the Hon.
Member had not been correctly reported, as respected
the officers, who were admitted by all who knew them,
and even by that consistent politician who had intro-
duced this motion, to do their duty manfully and faith-
fully to their country.—(Hear.)
Mr. COI3DEN entered his protest against the doc-
trine laid down by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
for Ripon, a doctrine which had been assorted on a
former night by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth—that the Execut:vo Government was alone

responsible to the country for the amount of the army
and navy estimates. The House had more than once
heard taunts from the Government, when the expendi-

ture had been complained of, that it was by their votes
alone that the Ministry had been enabled to incur so
largo an amount of expenditure; and when the Ministry
were called to account for the extravagant demands

which they made upon the public purse, they threw the
responsibility of having incurred those demands upon
the House. But now that the Right Hon. Baronet the
Member for Ripon desired to find an excuse for the vote
he was about to give, he transferred the responsibility
from the House to the Executive Government. If that
doctrine was correct, if the Ministry alone were respon-
sible for the amount of the estimates, the doors of that
House would at once be shut and every Member might go
home for any use he was there. He also protested against
another of the Right Hon. Baronet's dogmas, that the Par-
liament had no right to know the reason which the Go-
vernment had for concealing the real state of affairs. (Oh !)
If there were secrets,: let the House know what they
were.—(Laughter, and hoar.) He wished to be informed
of the reasons why the House was called upon to vote
large sums of money; and so far from thinking secresy
any advantage, or that any good resulted from leaving
so much power in the hands of the Foreign Secretary,
he was of opinion that it would be the wisest plan to let
all the world know what England was doing in this re-
spect. The daily press prevented there being any great
amount of secresy in foreign affairs, and it was in vain
to attempt to involve them in mystery.—(Hear, hear.)

But there were always plenty of reasons to be had when
an increase of expense was to he justified. ID the
year 1837 the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Halifax told the House that Russia was about to in-
vade England, and that an increase in the navy esti-
mates was necessary. The increase was voted, and
then no more was heard of Russian invasion. In 1840,
the miserable affair of Syria was urged as the plea for
increased naval expenditure. In 1842, China formed a
fresh pretext for the extravagance of the Government;
and, in 1846, an additional vote was asked for the navy on
the plea that America was to be apprehended. He
passed over the miserable pretext afford by the affair of
Otaheite, in which Mr. Pritchard was involved. But
whatever was the amount of increase in the expenditure
there were always plenty of reasons to justify it. What he
wished to draw attention to was, that let the House once
give its assent to an increase of expenditure, there was
never any effort made to reduce that excess to the former
state of affairs. There was now no danger to be appre-
hended any where.—(" Oh, oh.") The House ought to
bear in mind that at the time the estimates now before
them were framed there had been not the smallest reason

for apprehending that a revolution would break out in
France, or that Louis Philippe would not he on the
French throne. On the former occasion the Miintpen-

sier marriage, and a pamphlet issued by one of the sons
of the French King had been urged as reasons for appre-
hending danger ; but now there existed no such reasons,
nor could any fear be entertained of an invasion on the
part of the Prince de Joinville. And yet, notwithstand
ing the groundlessness of the former excesses,•it was
now urged—as if merely to show that an excuse could
never be wanting—that France might invade England,
and therefore preparations for defence must be made.
France had a great deal too much to do at home to be
able to entertain any such designs as were attributed to
her. But another reason for maintaining the present

..-.. -
rate of naval expenditure was that the British ships of
war were indispensable for the protection of the com-
merce of England in foreign countries. In what man-
Der did the British navy protect the commerce of
England? The ships of war never carried on any
commerce—nor was the commerce of the Mediterra-
nean carried on by English merchants. The chief
merchants engaged in the commerce of Europe were
Greeks, Germans, and Italians. , He would prove
this fact by moving for returas from the British
consuls in the Mediterranean Sea and on the
coast of Portugal, showing the number of English
merchants engaged in commerce in those parts. Those
returns would incontestably prove that the English
merchants were few in number, and that they were daily
diminishing and giving place to others. But that would
not show that the amount of exports from England
diminished along with the number of English merchants.
The goods exported to the Mediterranean and Portugal
were consigned to foreign merchants, to Greeks, Ger-
mans, and Swiss—all of whom carried on their transac-
tions without the protection of a naval force.—(Hear,
hear.) Could be pretended that the British navy was
required in order to protect that species of commerce;
or, on the other hand, was it pretended that British ships
of war were necessary to put down piracy. Why, steam
had done that for pirates which the snail coaches for-
merly effected in the cases of highwaymen.—(" Oh," and
" No.") He maintained that there were no pirates
in the Mediterranean.—(" Oh, oh.") There,were still
to be found prahus in the Eastern seas, but no pirates
were to be found in the Mediterranean, and yet a naval
force was stationed there, the expenditure of which was
greater than the profits of the manufactures and the
whole amount of the freights of the British ships en-
gaged in trade, put together.—(Oh, oh.) So much for
the commercial side of the question. With respect to
political reasons advanced for maintaining the naval
forces, the House was constantly told that it was indis-
pensable for England to place herself upon a level with
all other foreign powers, in so far as her navy was con-
cerned. Now, the only powers that Englandcould regard
as being on the same level with herself in a naval point
of view were France and America, and in adverting to
this subject he must express his regret at the tune of the
speech made by the Right lion. Baronet the Member for
Ripon. He examined a file of the Monitcur, in
order to ascertain what had been said in the French
Chamber respecting the British navy. It might be all
very well for Members of that House to talk compla-
cently of the naval supremacy of Great Britain, but was
it not to be expected that in the teeth of such language
France and America should also put forward their claims
to be ranked as high as England? In the reports of the
speeches contained in the Moniteur of 1846, on the sub-
ject of the proposed increase of the French navy, when
the report of the Committee appointed to examine into
the question was brought before the Chamber, the Mi-
nister had already augmented the original estimates, and
even that augmentation did not equal the demands of
the Deputies, and 93,000,000 francs wore added to the
estintate. What were the arguments urged in defence
el this augmentation?—Monsieur Thiera, in his speech
on the occasion, delivered on the 15th of April, 1846,
I said:—

" We pay England the compliment of thinking of her,
and her only, when we discuss the question of our navy;
we do not trouble ourselves about the fleets which sail
out of Trieste or Venice; wo think only of the ships
which leave Plymouth or Portsmouth. Now, what are
the naval forces of England? It is generally said that
when she has put forth her greatest strength, they hare
amounted to 100 vessels of the line. If you examine
the facts you will find that she has never had 100 vessels
out of port; she has had but 80. But on a future occa-
sion I think she would have more—perhaps 100. . . .
When you speak of 36 ship in the face of 80 or 100 it
seems to me a farce. It is true the Minister has raised
the proposition to 44; but even he can hardly be
serious. . . . If he had said France will aim at
having 60 ships I should have understood him. I think,
that with 60 vessels against a nation with 80 or 100, but
with a much larger space to cover, it would be possible
for us to maintain an honourable struggle."
One feature of the debate from which he quoted was,
that even the most exalted of the French orators never
assumed for one moment that France could pretend to be
able to put herself upon an equality with England in so
far as her naval power was concerned. To demonstrate
this, he would quote the observations made by another
of the Deputies on the same day that M. Thiers bad
made his speech, namely the 13th of April, 1846. The
speaker was Monsieur Duces, who said:—
" England, which wo may be permitted to view, if
not as a model, at least as a guide, in spite of the 112
vessels of war of from 70 to 120 gums which she keeps
afloat, in spite of the immense development which she
has given to her steam navy, England still continues to
construct more vessels of the largest dimensions. At
this moment she has upon the stocks 13 ships of from
70 toll2o guns, besides a considerable number of frigates
calculated to carry a powerful artillery. * * * God
forbid, gentlemen, that I should so:far allow myself to be
led away as to demand from France the sacrifices of men

and money necessary for the creation of a fleet equal in
free to that of England. I know that we are not like
Great Britain, exclusively a maritime power; but I think
I, am within the limits of a wise" policy in begging the
Chamber not to allow itself to be carried away by pros-
pects which, however pleasing, may be deceptive, and are
assuredly very far distant. I intreat it not to reduce the
number of our vessels whilst England preserves hers,
and even augments the number."
And the same sentiments were expressed by Mons.
flernoux, who, on the part of the Committee, in opposi-

tion to the increase of the armaments, said:
" In the great lottery of force and of chance, on which
side will the advantage rest?—On the side of the most
numerous. Now, can we pretend to establish a navy as
numerous as that of England? If to-morrow, we had
100 vessels, the day after, England would have •100."
Mons. de Lamartine also spoke during the debate, and
he would read an extract from tho report contained in
the Moniteur of that distinguished person's speech :
" England has not less than 700 vessels of war, with
which she could (lover the two oceans, at the command
of her Admiralty. Everybody knows that as respects
those steamers, :with which we think ourselves suffi-

• .
cien:ly armed in adding 38 to our 72, England has 500
merchant steam-boats which she could, in case of war,

arm and let loose upon the ocean. . . . I confess
that to-day for the first time in my life I have thought
with susceptibility, I had almost said with jealousy, of
England. Yes, at the moment when, after three days'
debate, rs e are coming to this great vote, I say to myself
and I say to my colleagues, it is proposed to diminish
the budget of the navy, that budget which in all ages
has been deemed to belong to the very nature and desti-
nies of France—it is proposed not merely to weaken,
but to paralyse the only army with which we might
perhaps one day have to encounter England upon the
ocean. ' _ _ _

----- -
The lion. Gentleman the Member for Sheffield (Mr.

Ward) would perhaps recollect that a few years ago the
Admiralty had given orders to cut down some line•of-
battle ships, in order to convert them into coast-guard
ships. In a report which was made upon this sub-
ject by the Baron Charles Dupin, he (Mr. Cobden)
found the following observations addressed by that
gentleman to the French Chamber of Peers on the 15th
of June, 1346. After giving a detailed account of a
pta,n determined upon by the British Government for
converting four line-of-battle ships, and four frigates
into steam-ships carrying 312 guns and bombs of the
largest calibre, the Baron concluded with the following
observations :

"If we compare this destructive force with the most
formidable batteries ever employed by armies on land
to burn fortified towns or batter down buildings, we
shall know what to think of an-armament got up under
the inoffensive and defensive designation of steam coast-
guard vessels. It is for France an indispensable neces-
sity to complete an arnament of the same kind and of
equal force, so that we may have nothing to fear for the
future, should it so happen that we have a misunder-
standing with England."
He would now come to a part of the question more im-
mediately interesting to the House. On the 26th of
February, 1847, the Hon. Member for Sheffield brought
the naval estimates under the consideration of the
House, and, after quoting from the report of the Minister
of Marine is France, made in 1846, recommending the
building of new ships, he said
" The great object of this increased expenditure was,
that France might increase the number of her ships
from 359, which they were in 1846, to 390, which was
what they intended to be. Now, he found no fault with
France for these things. France did what she thought
right and necessary for the maintenance of her position.
She set us, in many respects, a noble example. He ad-
mired the wise and systematic liberality with which her
great naval works had been carried on from year to

year till she had compensated herself for the great na-
tural disadvantages under which she laboured along the
whole coast of the Channel." _ _ _

Lie then went into particulars of tho magnificent works
going on at Dunkirk, Havre, Calais, &c., described the
dockyard at Cherbourg, containing 231 acres and 16
Building slips, and quoted the case of Brest, whose
smithy contained 127 fires, whilst that at Portsmouth
had only 48. The Hon. Member wound up his state-

went by stating :
" These facts, it appeared to him, ought to be a lesson
to us. They imposed a very heavy responsibility on
those who were in power in this country. It behoved
them to take care, by the proper development of our
resources in times of peace, to prevent the balance of
power being changed in time of war."
—(Hear, hear.) Now if any proof were wanting that
England had led the way step by step to the enormous
augmentation of the naval forces of France, it would be
found in the fact that the English Government had sub-
sidised the ship-builders in order to get them to
construct steamers for the ostensible purposes of form-
ing a line of communication with America, and
these vessels wore to be constructed upon such plans
and scale as to enable the Government to take them
and convert them into war steamers in the event of a
war.—(Oh! and hear, hear.) He had the statement of
the Hon. Member for Sheffield as a guarantee of the
assertion which he had made. The steamer's employed
on Cunard's line, and those also engaged in the trans-
mission of the West India mails, were all of them con-
structed upon the principles laid down by the lion.
Member in his former statement, and since that plan
had been adopted by England, France had followed it,
and the President of the United States of America had
done the same thing, by advancing the sum of 200,000
dollars for the purpose of constructing steam war-
packets. If the matter was not so serious in itself,
there was enough to make him laugh at the imbecility
of foreign nations. He could not but draw the conclu-
sion, from all the facts he had stated, that there was
no desire in high quarters to diminish the war
expenditure of the nation.—(Oh, and hear, hear.)
The allusion made by the Hon. Member for Sheffield to
America was not a fortunate one. The United States
had existed as an independent power for the period of
sixty-seven years, and during that time they bud been
engaged for four years in a war. The American naval
estimates, in 1845, were 1,200,0001., or 6,000,000 dollars
—one-half or two-thirds of the naval estimates of Great
Britain. What was the whole amount of the estimates
of the American Cabinet during the years in which they
were engaged in war ? Only 11,003,000/., and this sum
included the military and naval expenditure, the salary
of the President, and the allowances made to all the
foreign ambassadors, as well as every other charge. The
whole did not amount to two-thirds of the cost of the
establishment and civil list of Great Britain during a time
of profound peace. The Noble Lord the Member for
Staffordshire had taunted him (Mr. Cobden) with some
observations which had fallen from him on a former occa-
sion in another place. He must admit that he bad been
correctly reported on the occasion referred to. He did
not mean to be offensive to any persona when he said
that Valetta was a skulking hole for the navy, and the
Noble Lord would understand that this observation was
exclusively meant for the nauticals. But he must state
that he had visited Malta at two different periods of the
year, in March and in November, and he had on both
occasions observed a vast assemblage of ships and sailors
without, at the same tim,o observing any corresponding
waourgt
hh t e r
advantage which they conferred. He had been told that
drunkenness prevailed amongst the sailors. He had
himself seen the Jack Tars galloping round the island
u
) The lion. and Gallant
r
complained that he had misre-
presented these crews and their officers, because he had
stated that there was greater amount of
idleness and demoralisation exhibited on board
upon
ber i"
fosersships of war than could be seen in the same space any-
where else on the face of the earth. He repeated his
assertion, and contended that you could not have
800 or 1,000 men on board a 120-gun ship for any
length of time without their becoming demoralised and
idle.—(Hear, hear.) Suppose you had a factory, with
1,000 hands coming in every morning and going away
in the evening, without a wheel being turned or spindle
set in motion, how long would they remain without be-
coming demoralised? The occupation of our fleets in
the Mediterranean is really this. They lay up in ordi-
nary in winter, and in summer they went on an excur-
sion round Sicily, sometimes as far as Athens, and some-
times to Smyrna, coming back after a cruise of six
months to Valetta to lay uI,-.
The officers went to the
clubs, or on leave to Sicily, while the lieutenants and
men left on board were pat to their wits' end to find
something to do. They hauled up the sails, then pulled
them down, and that, with scrubbing the decks, formed
the ordinary routine of Mediterranean duty. He begged
Hon. Members who were discontented with his state-
ments not to lose their time taunting him, but to con-
tradict his facts. Let them disprove what he said,
and to enable them to do so, let them look to their navy
list, and see where the ships were stationed in Decem-
ber, January, and February, and where in May, June,
and July. Now, with regard to the force in the Tagus,
the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Ripon had
defended it by quoting Nelson's opinion as to the eligi-
bility of the station. lie was willing to take that opinion
for what it was worth, but had the squadron lately
stationed there been intended for the West Indies? lie
had understood they were sent there by our Foreign
Minister, to be placed at the disposal ee the Queen of
Portugal.—(llear, hear.) And there it would be seen,
by the return for which ho had moved, they had lain
month after month doing nothing. Could
anything be
more .demoralising, in such tt climate and close to such
a city ?—(llear, hear.) Those who had been in Lisbon
would admit that it was not the purest of all spots
in which to locate :five thousand idle men.—(Hear,
hear.) So far from there being any exaggeration in
his statements, he believed there was a. current joke
among the sailors, that one of the line-of-battle ships
had gone aground on the beef bones which had been
thrown over her side.—(Laughter.) Now, he contended
that we had no right to tax the artisans and people of this
country who consumed the sugar, and coffee, and tea, for
the purpose of sending a fleet larger than the whole of
the American navy, to lie in the Tagus, at the disposal
of the Queen of Portugal, and to do more harm than
good. It might have been good to send the fleet there.
Lie took the argument for what it was worth; but if it
was worth anything, why had the fleet been so suddenly
withdrawn? He sometimes fancied that the broadside
he had fired from the free trade hall in Manchester, had
dispersed them.—(Laughter.) (An Hon. Member,
" They're in Cork.") Well, he hoped they were better
employed than they had been in Portugal. He now
came to this important suestion; they y were going
to vote 7,500,0001. lle was perfectly prepared
for ii, he believed that for that large estimate Govern-
ment was no more to blame than the electors or the
country.—(Hear, hear.) He would be very candid,
he had been the first to raise an outcry against it in
November last, and he was censured in all quarters for
his conduct. lie would do Ministers the justice to say,
that he was censured on all hands, in the newspapers,
among public men, and everywhere he was told that
he was wrong io opposing increased armaments. But
the very parties who had so censured him, were the
very men, when the Ministers brought in their Bill, to
turn sharp round and call them a profligate Ministry.
In his opinion Ministers had been exceedihg-ly

in the matter. He took no blame to himself. In 1835,
when our navy was at the lowest, he made his first ap-
pearance in public life by writing pamphlets against
increased armaments. But they now came to the ques-
tion—how was the money to be raised?—(Hear, hear.)
They were in a serious dilemma respecting it. It was
proposed to do it by an increased income-tax, and he
would say very frankly to the country, that if the ex-
penditure must be carried on, ho would vote that it be
paid by the men of 1501. a year and upwards, rather
than that the working classes should be taxed another

farthing.—(Hear, hear.) He believed that the masses
had no fear of invasion. They laughed at it. The
peasant working at his plough, or the weaver at his
loom, never felt any alarm. It was the genteel and
timid classes of the country who wanted this protection,
and he would say, if they would have it, let them pay
for it.—(Cheers.) But what a lesson did the present
state of Europe read to us as to the result of these vast
armaments? Every post brought accounts of the march
of revolution throughout Europe, and the primary cause
of all this was, no doubt, the heavy burdens, the material
suffering and oppressions of the people.—(Hear, hear.)
It would have been better if a remedy could have been
found other than revolution, but there was no doubt but
that the principal cause was the heavy expense, parti-
cularly for army, navy, and ordnance. There was in the
United States a writer, Mr. Charles Sumner, who had
published a work to prove that the standing armies of
Europe, cost 200,000,0001. a year, together with the
withdrawal of 2,000,000 of men in the flower of
manhood from industrial pursuits, involving a loss of
60,000,000/. more. Two millions of people were alleged
by this writer to be absorbed by the monastic institu•
tions, but he (Mr. Cobden) wanted to know what dif-
ference was there between keeping two millions of men
idle in red coats and keeping them in black? They had
equally to be supported, the result was disaster to the
finances, and such a state of things must always lead to
revolution.—(Hear.) He was anxious that they should
take this matter in hand in time. He believed that
great disasters threatened this country in financial
affairs. They talked of borrowing from the reserve
fund. Then they must borrow from the Bank, and then
came Bank disaster and a panic. He believed most of
the panics had arisen from the illicit intercourse carried
on between the Bank and the Government.—(Hear,

hear.) Then they had the danger of a bad harvest, for
such an event was always on the cards. He maintained
that the danger of invasion was not half so great as the
danger to be apprehended from a disordered state
of the finances. Our present embarrassments did
not arise from any falling off in the revenue, but
from our inordinate expenditure. He wished that
Hon. Gentlemen would pluck up courage against foreign
foes, but also that they would at the same time have
courage to face our financial difficulties. He had no
fear whatever of invasion from without • ho did not
think that any one would assault us; but the state of our
finances afforded him ground for apprehension. If we
could increase our strength in that department—if we
could only add to the number of prosperous people, at the
, same time diminishing the number of our paupers and
sailors, we should be taking the best means of securing
the permanent welfare of the country.
Admiral DUNDAS said he could not lose a moment
in noticing the statements which had been put forward
by the Hon. Member for the West Riding respecting
our squadron in the Mediterranean. He held in his
hand a letter from Admiral Parker, in which, after
quoting the observation of the Honourable Member,
to the effect that the American Consul had criticised
the discipline of our ships, the writer proceeded to
say, " The American Consul writes to say that he has
had no sort of intercourse with nor has ke seen Mr. Cob-
den for ten years."—(Opposition cheers.) His (Admiral
Dundas's) Gallant Friend was also totally at a loss to
know what ship it was which had remained in Malta
throughout the whole of the Hon. Member's cruise to
Sicily and back. He did not think the House would
expect him further to defend the characters of Admirals
Napier and Parker on the discipline carried on on board
their squadrons.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COBDEN—The Gallant Admiral says what is
true—that it is ten years since I was in Malta; but it is
also true that I never said anything else.—(" Oh, oh,"
from the Opposition.) It would be the last thing which
a man so notorious in his movements as I have been
would think of.—(lnterruption, and cries of " Oh, oh 1")
I believe that almost every town I visited was duly
chronicled in the newspapers.—(Hear, hear.) But I
was in Malta in the winter of 1636 and the spring of
1837, and I again repeat what I have said on the
subject. Don't tell me of the characters of Gallant Ad-
mirals—we have all got good characters, I hope; but I
ask whether or no my facts are correct?—(Hear, hear.)
The American Consul could not deny that ho went in
the steamer with me from Malta to Greece, or that we
were four days together in the same vessel.—(Hear,
hear.) We have heard a great deal of the character Of
the two services. I tell them that I look upon them in
the same light as I would any other profession; they
don't work for nothing, as the seventeen millions in the
estimates will testify, and their conduct forms as fair a
subject for criticism as if they were barristers or phy-

sicians.
Admiral DUNDAS said that he held in his hand an
extract from the Hon. Member's speech in Manchester,
and the Hon. Member's words were :
" I was at Malta at the commencement of the winter,
in the month of November. While I was there ono of
our ships of the line arrived from Portsmouth : it had
come direct: it had left England with a crew of 1,000
hands, and arrived in the harbour of Valetta with 999,
one person having died on the passage. It went, as I
say, into the harbour of Valetta, and there it remained
while I travelled from Malta to Naples, thence to Egypt
and to Greece; and when I returned to Malta there was
the vessel lying in the harbour of Valetta still. Her
chief officers had gone on shore to live in the clubs, and
the subs and rest of the crew found the utmost difficulty,
in keeping up even the appearance of a pretence to use-
ful employment, in hoisting up the sails and taking them
down again, and in scrubbing the decks.—(Laughter.)
Well, I was introduced, as it happened, to the American
Consul at Malta, and he spoke to me on the subject.
Ile said,' We Americaus consider your navy to be very
slack.'"
In answer to this the Consul wrote to say, that he
had not seen the Hon. Member for ten years.—(Hear.)
Colonel TYNTE said that a relation of his, who was
in the navy, had returned on the previous night from
Lisbon, and had told him that the strict discipline of the
squadron there was the topic of general conversation.
Lord PALMERSTON said that he did not rise to
defend the British navy—" the blood of Douglas could
protect itself." The high character which our navy had
acquired, and the brilliant discipline it had attained,
and which was sever more remarkable than at the pre-
sent moment, would secure for it the respect and admi-
ration of all whose knowledge of it was not, like that
of the Hon. Member for the West Riding, confined to
a period of ten years.—(Hear, and cheers.) With re-
gard to the question more immediately under considera-
tion, he should not go over the ground which had been
so ably trodden by those who had preceded him on both
sides of the House, as to the reasons which had led to
that progressive augmentation in the charges of the
navy, which was observed and found fault with by those
who opposed the present vote. It had been explained
that this increase had arisen partly from the necessary
supplies of stores consumed in the annual services cor-
responding with the augmentations made from time to
time, and partly from the great and extraordinary
change which the introduction of steam as a means of
propulsion for vessels necessarily made in the character
and description of our vessels. But that increase, what-
ever it might be, was not greater than what had taken
place in the navy of France during the corresponding
period. And when he was told that they were not to
look at what other nations did with their naval establish-
ments, the answer was given by the Hon. Member who
had just spoken. He had repeated the arguments used
in the French Chamber for the increase of their navy,
but the common sense of those arguments was, that the
defensive means of a nation even in time of peace must
in some degree be proportioned to the preparations
of other nations with whom there might be a chance
of our coming into collision. There was nothing
offensive in that mode of proportioning the defen-
sive means of our nation to the preparations of
another, and it would have been bad policy if we
had taken no notice of the naval forces of the United
States, of France, and of Russia, the three great mari-
time Powers of the world. He imagined that neither in
stores, in sailing ships, or in steamers, had we gone
beyond what the necessary service of the country re-
quired. It had well been observed that, in defending the
present vote, they should not rest their arguments on a
state of things which had arisen since the estimates had
been prepared. He was willing to admit the forco of
that assertion ; but when he was asked why it was
that our extended commerce required increased means
of defence, ho must protest against the manner in which
the Hon. Member for the West Riding had said that our
commerce required no protection from our navy.—(Hear.)
Our merchants were every day seeking fresh markets,
and everywhere that those were found British residents
flocked to the spot. There was hardly a place in
the commercial world in which British subjects did not
establish themselves, and being established they always
looked for protection at least from our naval force.
There was not a day in which he did not receive letters
from various parts of the world, from British subjects,
complaining that they were neglected and exposed to
oppression and ill-treatment from the local authorities.
It was, therefore, not merely on account of the extent of
our colonial possessions, but of our trade and commerce,
that additional naval protection was necessary. But the
argument of the Hon. Member (Mr. Cobden) would go
to show that we might dispense altogether with, not
only the navy, but the army, and even the police.--
(Cheers.) The Hon. Member said, what was the use of
our ships of war, they are always lying useless in the
harbours, and the men are cleaning the decks, or em-
ployed in other equally peaceable and useless °coupe-
tions.—(llear, hear.) Ho wished the Hon. Gentleman
would exercise his ingenuity in describing, in the same
way, the occupations of the soldiers in their bar-
racks. Because, if, it were a good argument that
because our sailors were not employed in hostile occu-
pations, that therefore we have no use for them,
db o
staringu t h
e
it would be equally good as against our army that in
time of peace they were only employed in barracks or
on parade, and in the same way it would apply to that
sate errmyt s
every person out of countenance who ventured to look
button-holes owfitbhluteheier coats who
in their"•e on
sawu tt
into a shop window.—(" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Ile
must say that the Hon. Gentleman, who talked of
childish argument and childish reasoning, had, in endea-
vouring to show that our navy should be reduced in time
of peace, adduced a line of argument which was not
likely to have much weight with the House, nor with
any reasoning man in the country.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Gentleman would refer the question not to a naval
man or a statesman, but to the ploughmen and the
weavers.—(A laugh.) There is no danger of invasion,
said he, for the ploughman ploughs on without dread of
a foreign foe, and the weaver has no fear of foreign
occupation,--(Chears and hugliter.) Now he (Lord

Palmerston) could not consent to leave the question to
that triounal—(Hear, hear)—nor did he consider that
because the ploughman and the weaver did not believe
the descant of a foreign enemy possible, that we ought,
therefore, to strip the country of its naval defences,
and depend for protection altogether on the doctrines
of free trade.—(Cheers.) Those doctrines he had often
admitted and pressed upon the House as doctrines tend-
ing to peace, but he was not prepared to say they could
be relied ou as an efficient substitute for that more

material and physical protection which a great nation
like this would always require.—(Hear, hear.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graham) had said
that he trusted no member of tho Government, in ad-

dressing the House on this question, would depart from
that reserve which was becoming of the present occa-
sion ; but the Hon. Member for the West Riding
exhorted them to tell all the secrets of the Foreign-
office.—(hear, hear.) He (Lord Palmerston) had no
secrets. Heaven knew that what was now passing in
other countries was no secret.—(Hear. hear.) Those
events were notorious to all mankind ; and if any
reasoning or reflecting man in the House could have
thought six weeks ago the force proposed was greater
than expediency or the necessities of the public service
required, he was sure no man in the present state of
affairs, and in the face of future events, which ho hoped
would not be of that character which some expected—
but still with a future big with uncertainty—(Hear,
hear)—whatever the wishes and hopes of the Govern-
ment that that future would end in peace might be—and
he could assure them that whatever influence the Go-
vernment possessed would be steadily exerted for that
object—(Hear, hear)—and in urgently and impartially
endeavouring to inculcate the doctrines of peace to all
who might be disposed to listen to their counsels—still,
with a future big with events, the character of which no
one could venture to predict—no careful man in this
country could wish that our naval and military force
should be reduced to a lower amount than that at which

it now stood.—(Hear, hear.) If they wished the
counsels of this country to carry any weight, we
must be in a condition independent of fear and
alarm. A country that was itself powerless could not
expect other nations to listen to its appeals. For your
counsels to have weight you must show that you do not
desire peace out of humility or fear.—(Hear, hear.)
You must show that you demand it because you think
it is consistent with the true advantage o; all countries—
that you demand it because of your love of peace it-
self, and not out of fear of the consequences of war in
your own case. He could assure the House that it was
not only the desire of the Government that this country
should continue to enjoy the inestimable blessings of
peace, but it would be no fault of theirs—when they
ventured to offer connsel to others—it would be no fault
of theirs, if Europe should be involved in the calamities
of war.—(Hear.) No one, he thought, is these days
would ♦enture to prophecy what might occur. Events
had followed each other of late with such rapidity that
no man would attempt to anticipate what might be the
rsults of the coming week.—(Hear, bear.) But he
trusted they would not think this was a moment when
they shbuld divest the Government of those means
which, at the beginning of the session, they proposed
that the House should intrust to the Government for the

service of the country.—(Hear.)
Captain HARRIS defended the military and nava
services from the imputations of the Hon. Member for
the West Riding, and said that when that Hon. Mem-
ber spoke slightingly of the Duke of Wellington he did
not know the hearts of the people.
Mr. BRIGHT (who was for some moments pre-
vented from proceeding by the calls for a division) said
the speech of the Noble Lord (Palmerston) was precisely
like the speeches of all the Foreign Secretaries for the
last sixty years. He wished to recal the House to the
question under consideration, viz., whether they were to
vote this enormous sum without deduction or not, and
in point of fact, whether the:Committee should give its
sanction, which had been for so many years followed, of
perpetually increasing the military expenditure of the
country ?—(Hear.) Of what was that expenditure now
composed ? The interest on the national debt, the
navy, the army, and the ordnance, were all expenses
which arose from those warlike propensities which had
been so extensively gratified by present and past Go-
vernments.—(Hear.) These branches formed almost the
whole expenditure of this great empire-47,000,0001. a
year were paid either for wars that had already taken
place, or in preparation as it seemed for wars that were
expected.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord (Palmerston) asked,
" How can you expect to have influence with foreign
countries unless, when you recommend peace, you are
in a powerful position as to your armaments?"—(Hear.)
Now there were two answers to that proposition. First,
the Noble Lord did not consult the interest of this
country—he thought it was his duty, for the purpose of
upholding the balance of power, to interfere with the
arrangements of continental states; and the other answer
was to be found in the answer to the question, was the
United States powerful or not? Had not the United
States obtained from France the restoration of rights and
payments which France for a long time had refused?
Had not the United States obtained from this country
the settlement of the Maine boundary question and the
Oregon question? And yet, until the Mexican war, the
United States had, as compared with our own, a ridi-
culous amount of armaments both military and naval.
—(Hear, hear.) But there was another question which
the Noble Lord (Palmerston) and the Secretary for
the Admiralty seemed to have lost sight of—that was,
where was the money to come from for these constantly
increasing armaments?—(Hear, hear.) They might
bring forward documents and argue, that because France
or some other power had increased its armaments,
therefore we must add to ours. But there was a limit
to this, which if they passed they would entail more
mischief on the country than could result from any in-
crease of the armaments of foreign countries.—(llear.)
Let there consider the discontent which the proposed
increased expenditure and increased taxation had occa-
sioned throughout the country during the last three
months.—(hear, hear.) The people were not, however,
sufficiently alive to the extravagance of the Govern-
ment, nor to the necessity of resisting by all constitu-
tional means those unnecessary additions to our taxation.
—(Hear, hear.) But it was because 500,0001. more was
asked for in the present estimates than in those of last
year, and because 2 per cent. had been attempted to be
added to the income-tax, that an amount of discontent
existed against the present Government which no pre-
vious Government for many years past had met with.
The industry of the people was paralysed, their means
were exhausted, and from the highest to the lowest they
were in a state of extreme difficulty and suffering. if
this course was continued, we could scarcely hope to
escape some of those troubles which had resulted in
other countries from the same cause.—(" Oh," and
" Hear.") The Noble Lord talked of his desire for
peace, but had he sent any Ambassador or Envoy to
any foreign nation with a direct and tangible proposi-
tion to reduce the military expenditure in conjunction
with this country ?—(Hear, hear.) Nothing of the
kind had ever been done, and yet there was no doubt
that Prussia, Russia, Austria, and all the continental
powers, were sighing for some relief from those all but
intolerable burdens.—(Hear, hear.) If we had a Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs who thought more of the true
interests of his country than the exaltation of his
office—("Oh," and cheers)—he could imagine him enter
ing into a correspondence with intelligent Ministers of
other countries to bring about such a reduction of ex-
penditure as he had alluded to, and such a reduction as
this country would enforce before long.—("Divide.")
When he remembered that there were 150 Gentlemen
in that House connected with the army and navy, he
was not surprised that what ho was saying now, and
what he had said en former occasions, should be unpa-
lateable ; but if that House really represented the com-
mons of England, and held the purse-strings of that
enormous taxation which was extracted from the people,
he knew of no more solemn duty that could devolve
upon its members than to protest against an expense
which they believed to be excessive, and which was oc-
casioning discontent through all classes of the industri-
ous people of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. DRUMMOND—When he heard gentlemen
belonging to the military and naval professions charged
by the free-trade party with selling the interests of their
country he feared they were on the verge of carrying
into the military affairs of the country. those tenets
which had brought ruin on the country in every other
way.—(A laugh) He would not detain the House on
that question now, because other occasions would arise,
when he was determined to trace, in all its ramifications,
the principles of the free-trade schools, and to show the
injury which had resulted from their adoption. They
had been taught to consider the interests of the master
cotton spinners as identical with the interests of the
kingdom.—(Hear, hear.) So the interests of the cotton
spinners, the cotton operatives, the colonies, and every
other interest had been sacrificed; and now the same
party who had obtained this sacrifice come forward,
with the most inordinate presumption, to sneer at
Ministers for maintaining those doctrines which every
previous Government upheld—(Cries of "Hear, hear' )
—and to call for the abolition of that policy and those
maxims which experience and common sense had shown
to be correct. The cotton-spinning interest was to be
the guarantee for peace; and, according to these gentle-
men, ho believed if Cain himself had been a cotton
spinner, he would never have knocked Abel on the
head.—(A laugh.) He mistrusted not the men, but
their power. Ile mistrusted that they had the power at
all, and he certainly did not believe that we were in any
danger of a foreign invasion, so long as we showed that
we had the power and the. determination to resist it.—
(Hear, hear.) Ho conjured the House not to believe
that these establishments were upheld merely for the
benefit of the genteel classes, and to mistrust all counsel
that came from that quarter ; for the throne could not
stand upon cotton, and the Queen could not sit upon a
spinning-jenny.—(Cheers and laughter.)
Sir H. VERNEY said a few words in vindication of
the Irish Roman Catholic soldiers, than whom (he said)
there were none in the British service more ready to do
their duty.
Mr. HUME replied, and the Committee divided—
For Mr. llume's motion

Against it
Majority
The original motion was then put and agreed to, the
House resumed, the Chairman reported the resolution
to the House, and obtained leave to sit again.
ELECTION RECOGNIZANCES BILL.
Mr. BRIG lIT asked the Hon. and Learned Member
for Midhurst (Mr. Walpole) whether the second reading
of the Election Recognizances Bill would come on to-
night ; if not, whether it would come on at all ; and if
at all, when ?—(Laughter)
Mr. W ALPOLE was willing to take any course
which might be agreeable to the House. As the organ
of the Select Committee appointed on this subejct, he
had brought forward the Bill, but after the division
which had taken place upon it on Wednesday last, he
did not entertain much hope of being able to pass it in
its present form. The Bill sought to do justice to all
parties, both petitioners and sitting Members, and it was
for the House to decide whether he had succeeded in
accoropliehing that object. His night light and Leaned

Friend the Member for Bute (Mr. Wortley) had shown
him some amendments which he thought would meet
the objections raised to the Bill so framed. His Right
Hon. Friend had been obliged to leave town, and,
therefore, he (Mr. Walpole) wtitild propose now to
read the Bill a second time pro forma with the intention
of enabling his Right Hon. and Learned Friend to lay
on the table his amendments, and then, when those
amendments were printed and in the hands of Members,
it would be competent to the House to say whether they
would go into Committee on the Bill and embody in it
those amended clauses. He would, therefore, suggest
that the Bill be now read a second time pro forma.
Mr. CRIPPS said his Right Hon. and Learned Friend
(Mr. Wortley) had left in his charge the amendments
alluded to, which he was ready at once to lay on the
table, so that they might be printed and in the hands of
Members to-morrow (this) morning. . - •
Sir R. H. INGLIS opposed the second reading of the
Bill, on the ground that the passing an expost facto law
on such a question was most objectioxable.
Sir G. GREY suggested that the proper course would
be, that before the Bill was read a second time th•
amendments should be printed, with a notice that in case
the Bill was read a second time those amendments would
be moved in Committee.
Sir B. HALL said this Bill seemed to consider the-
cases of the sitting Members only, but he thought that
of the petitioners ought to be considered. The peti-
tioners in the Cheltenham and other cases which alleged
bribery, had already been kept four months without a
hearing, and he wished to know what would become of
their petitions unless some order of the House was, made
with respect to them. He objected to any further delay
in disposing of those petitions.

Mr. REYNOLDS, as one of the sitting Members In.,
eluded in the Bill, thought that, though petitioners had
rights, the sitting Members had rights also. A great in-
justice would be done to the latter if they were• sent be-
fore Committees without the protection which proper
and legal recoguizances by the petitioners afforded them.
He should support the proposition of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Midhurst.
Mr. C. ANSTEY -thought it right, after what had.
fallen from the Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Wal-
pole), that the House should consent WI the Bill being
now read pro forma a second time.
Sir R. PEEL thought that nothing could be more
becoming than the course proposed by the Hon. and
•Learned Member for Midhurat, who had no other ob•
ject in view than under circumstances of Tory great
difficulty to take a course which on the whole would
be most consistent, if not with the letter of the law,
but certainly with substantial equity, and thereby to
prevent its being said that the House had closed its
doors against inquiry. As the organ of the Committee,
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had introduced this
Bill; but after what had passed, he might well abandon
it. However, as there were other Hon. Members who
entertained different views as to the details of the Bill,
he had moved the second reading for the mere purpose
of enabling those Hon. Members to submit their views
to future consideration. There being no interference on
the part of the House, all the measures would be re-
ferred to the several Committees. He would suggest
that the Bill should be allowed to be read a second time,
when notice might be given of the amendments to bc;
proposed.
Mr. HAYTER said, his impression from the begin-
ning had been that: the whole of this proceeding was
utterly useless. Let the necessity for further legislation
be established, before the Bill was read a second time.
Mr. GREENE contended that ithe necessity for the
Bill had been sufficiently shown, and the sooner it was
passed into a law the better.
Mr. BERNAL, though he had been a Member of the
Committee out of whose recommendation the Bill had
arisen, conceived that the existing law was amply suffi-
cient. With the multiplicity of business before the
House, he saw no chance of the Committee getting,
through the business which this Bill would create.
Sir G. CLERK said if the House did not come to a
speedy decision on this Bill, the Committee of elections
must proceed withjthe choice of Committees, which they
had hitherto postponed in expectation that some legisla•
tion on the subject would be come to.
The LORD ADVOCATE thought that before the
Bill was read a second time pro forma, the House ought
to be in possession of the amendments to be proposed.
Sir W. HEATHCOTE thought the House had made
a mistake in interfering in the matter at all.—(Hear.)
Though he had acquiesced in the introduction of the
Bill, ho would not urge the Hon. and Learned mover to
proceed with it.
Mr. SHIEL referred to the Galway case, and observed
that the reference by the House of the Cheltenham peti-
tion to a Committee was an admission that the certificate
of the examiner was not conclusive.
Mr. NAPIER thought the House ought to consider
itself bound by the decision of the examiners.
Mr. WALT OLE said that after what had passed in
the house he did not mean to press the motion, but out
of consideration to the Hon.:Gentleman the Member for
Bute, he thought it would not be right for him at pre•
sent to withdraw the Bill.
The motion was then withdrawn.
FREEMEN OF GREAT YARMOUTH.

On the motion of Mr. K. SETMER leave was given
to bring in a Bill to disfranchise the freemen of the
borough of Great Yarmouth.
The House then adjourned at a quarter•past one.

ARCTIC SEARCHING EXPEDI-

TION.

We have noticed, from time to time, the active and
judicious measures which have been adopted by the
Admiralty, with a view to render assistance to Sir John
Frat.klin's expedition, which sailed in the spring of
1845, for the purpose of exploring the north-west
passage into the Pacific, and of obtaining a series of
magnetic observations, r(quired to complete the set
which bad been obtained from every other part of the
globe.
In June last, Mr. Bell, one of the most active and
intelligent of the chief traders of the Hudson's Bay
Company, proceeded i❑ their ships to York Factory, is
temporary command of the four boats belonging to the
Arctic searching expedition, accompanied by fifteen
picked men of the Sappers and Miners, and five seamen,
forming part of an expedition to be fitted out under th•
command of Sir John Richardson, who (accompanied
by Mr. Rae) is now on the eve of departure to join the
boats, for the purpose of proceeding to the chores of the
Arctic Sea.
Mr. Bell's party were ordered to advance, in the
spring of this year, to Fort Simpson, on the Mackenzie
River, to be there joined by Sir John Richardson,
having wintered, probably, at Cumberland House, which
was the furthest point the party expected to attain be-
fore the closing of the navigation.
The boats were amply stored with provisions, winter
clothing, &e., and a fifth boat., similarly stored, will be
furnished by the Hudson's Bay Company, who have dis-
played the most laudable desire throughout to render
every assistance in their power to carry out the inten-
tions of the Admiralty.
Sir James Ross, whose whole life may be said to
have been passed in the Arctic and Antarctic Seas, is
now actively employed in fitting out the Enterprise
and Investigator, the latter under command of Captaia
Bird, an experienced officer on the Polar voyages.
They will sail early in May to Baffin's Bay, and
through Lancaster Sound to the westward, sending out
their boats and steam launches to different points of the
coast, and examining the Wellington Channel, through
which it is not improbable the Erebus and Terror may
have proceeded, with a view of making the passage to
the northward of the Parry group.
Commander Moore, also an experienced officer in
the navigation of the icy seas, of her Majesty's ship
Plover, who is now on his way round the Horne by
Behring's Straits, where he will be joined by Captain
Kellett, of her Majesty's ship Herald, has been or-
dered to proceed to the eastward in his boats along the
northern shores of America, as far as the Mackenzie
River.
It may confidently be hoped, under Divine Provi-
dence, that these admirable arrangements may be
crowned with success, should Sir John Franklin's expe-
dition have got into difficulty.
A reward of upwards of 100 guineas has also been
offered to any of the whale ships which may bring in-
formation of the expedition, the a•tual amount of the
reward depending upon the authenticity and value of the
information conveyed.
They have also been invited to look out for any of
the copper cylinders which Sir John Franklin was
directed to throw overboard daily on reaching 55 deg.
north.
Although these precautions aro most proper and
creditable to the authorities, we do not ourselves feel
any unnecessary anxiety as to tho fate of the ships.
That they may have been hampered, as others have
been, is very probable, and is almost a necessary
contingency. in the navigation of an icy sea, but we place
great hope in the materiel as well as persoffnel of the ex-
pedition, for ships bettor adapted for the service, better
equipped in all respects, or better officered or manned,
never left the shores of England on any of those arduous
voyages of discovery which have helped to raise tke
character of the British seaman in the eyes of every
enlightened nation of the world.

- ---
CnEar LITEILATuRE.—We observe that Mr.
Colburn has determined to publish the future volumes
of his collection of standard novels at only se. per volume
instead of 6s. and to reduce to the same price those
already published, including the celebrated story of
" Emilia Wyndham." The aew volume which is to
appear with the magazines on the Ist of April, will be
Mrs. Gore's " Mrs. Armytagoi or Female Domination,"
the work which was found by the aide of the unfortu-
nate Duchese de Praslin, and which, it is understood,
she was perusing at the moment she was attacked by her
husband—a work which has been pronounced to exhibit
a better lesson to the sex than is contained in a volume
of Mrs. Chapone's letters.
SOMNAMBULISM EXTRAORDINARY.—A short time
since, Mr. Cunnington, of Brampton Moor, fancy Curler,
&v., was awakened about two o'clock in the morning by a
noise at his door. He got up and opened the window, when
his daughter Hannah called out, " Come, father, go to
work, the steam is up." Mr. Cunnington dressed himself
as quickly as possible, and went to the engine-house, about
100 yards distant, when he found the steam roaring out
of the boiler which is stashed to the engine that turns hie
work. Having drawn the fire and made all safe, he re-
turned home for an explanation of the strange occurrence
when be ascertained that his daughter had got up
had thenupinher
sleep, taken the key, and gone to the engine; she
made a fire and got the steam up, when she returned home,
but was unable to gain admission into the house in con-
sequence of the door being fastened by a drop latch.
She was still asleep when Mr. Cunnington returned, and
he had some difficulty in awakening her. She had no
knowledge of what had taken place, and what makes
the affair seem more extraordinary is, that she had not
been accustomed to do anything at the engine,—Derby
Reporter