The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-18 00:00:00

SCOTCH SEQUESTRATIONS.

William Pugh, chemist, Edinburgh, July 23 and Aug. 13,
at two, at the chambers of Mr. Wilkie, Edinburgh.
William Wilson, cattle dealer, New Barns of Auchincruive,
Byrshire, July 23 and Aug. 13, at two, at the Black Bull
Inn, Cumnock.
Thomas Condie, grecer, Clackmannan, July 21 and Aug.
11, at twelve, at the Commercial Inn, Alloa.
James Reid, bootmaker, Edinburgh, July 18 and Aug.
at two, at the Café Royal Tavern, Edinburgh.
PRICE OF SUGAR.
The average price of Brown or Muscovado Sugar, the pro..
duce of the British possessions in America, computed from
the returns made in the week ending July 14, 1846, is
345. 6% d. per cwt.

MARKET INTELLIGENCE.
(From the London New Price Current of July 17.)
SUGAR.—To-day there was an increased disinclination
manifested by Grocers and Refiners to operate in West India
Sugar, in consequence of what transpired in the House of
Commons last evening with respect to the Sugar Duties.
The business transacted in all kinds was extremely limited,
and the quantity sold did not exceed 200 hhds and tree.
Refining kinds have generally brought prices equal to those
of last Friday, but grocery sorts must be quoted at 6d per
cwt cheaper.
REFINED.—To. day Refined Sugar was in good demand
for home consumption ; standard lumps could not be obtained
under 68s, and low brown lumps under 60s 6d, and the re-
finers show more firmness. The market for bonded Crushed
Sugar is quiet.
DlAuarnus.—There has been little desire evinced to ope-
rate privately in any description, and 5,287 bags 2 casks at
public sale this afternoon went at prices is to 2s per cwt
under those of the last auction, but the whole sold.
EAST INDIA.—This afternoon at public sale 917 bags of
Madras Sugar brought to public sale, and nearly all taken in
at about the former value. In Bengal there is little done,
and former rates are not to be obtained.

FOREIGN.—For yellow and brown Havannah there has
been a falling off in the demand, but holders evince firmness,
and insist upon fully previous rates. White is held for the
former currency, but the purchases made have not been of
much consequence,
MOLASSES.—West India have met with little attention,
and 154 puns 17 hhds 23 casks of Barbadoes at auction were
taken in at 27s Gd, and 21 puns of St. Lucia at 23s 6d.
COFFEE.—To- day there was more desire evinced to buy
Mocha Coffee, and .535 bales 251% bales at auction were all
sold at full market rates; 347 bags of Plantation Ceylon
were nearly all taken in at stiffer rates.
CocoA.—The best descriptions of West India have been
purchased with more freedom, and in consequence of the
small supply previous rates are well supported; but for the
low sorts reduced prices have been accepted.
TE.4..-1n consequence of lower rates having been submit-
ted to for all kinds of Gunpowder, buyers have been induced
to operate with more freedom, and large parcels were dis-
posed of. Imperial has declined in value, but several par-
cels have been sold. Twankay has met with little attention,
and prices are looking down. Hyson has met with little
attention, but holders generally are unwilling to reduce their
prices. There are few orders for Young Hyson, and prices
are drooping. Hyson Skin is little wanted. Scented Orange
Pekoe is dull of sale, and holders experience difficulty in
getting more than 2s per lb for fine. Holders of Black are
reluctant to reduce their prices, and supply the market spar-
ingly, but the trade have shown little desire to operate.
Cociumn.—Arrivals having commenced to come in more
freely have caused merchants to be desirous to realise this
week, and they having supplied the market largely, has pro-
duced a decline on former rates of 3d to 6d on silvers, and 4d
to 8d on black.

IlicE.—The demand has fallen off for Bengal, and the
market coatinuing to be freely supplied, prices have slightly
given way. Madras, however, has met with attention, and
the parcels sold privately were at previous rates. Of Java
there is yet little in the market. Prices do not improve for
Cleaned Rice, but the demand has been good.
SPICES.—To-day Malabar Pepper was purchased with
caution, and 4,000 bags at auction were all taken in at the
full worth. For Cinnamon the demand is brisker and prices
are firmer.

Syntrrs.—There has been less demand for Leeward Island,
but holders remain firm. In Calcutta little business has been
done. For Jamaica of all kinds the market has been in an
active state this week, but in the value little variation baa
occurred. Demerara is held with firmness. Brandy has been
purchased with increased freedom, and prices are advancing
for all descriptions. Geneva has been less in demand, and
lower rates are taken. For British Corn Spirits prices remain.
the same.

humGo.—To-day during the progress of the sale 727
chests were withdrawn. The quantity which passed the sale
this day is 898 chests. There is no material alteration to
notice in the prices of consuming and middling to good
shipping qualities, which are in good demand, but very tine
sorts are decidedly cheaper.

Oils.—A reduction on previous rates of 10s per tun having
been submitted to for Seal Oil, tempted buyers to operate
with more freedom. Cod is little wanted; there are sellers
at 281. Southern been purchased with caution, notwithstanding
the cheapness of all descriptions. Sperm at present cannot
be quoted cheaper. For Rape Seed Oil reduced rates have
been taken, and the supply is large. Linseed Oil has met
with little attention on the spot, and crushers experience
difficulty in supporting prices.
TALLow.—This afternoon at public sale 128 casks of Aus-
tralian Tallow were sold, 30 casks South American, 37 casks
65 barrels North, 97 casks first sort P.Y.C. taken in, and 32
casks Italian sold at lower prices.

sTATUE of SIR R. PEEL
THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.
sra,—As I believe you are as much the organ of the free-
traders in the country as the Morning Advertiser is in
London, I wish to state through you, that my house will be
NATIONAL
open for penny subscriptions to the statue of Sir Robert Peel,
and that my customers in the army are anxious to show
that they have their obligations as citizens as well as their
duties as soldiers.—l am, Sir, &c.,

'ALEXANDER SPENCE,
Earl of Chatham's Arms, Thomas-street, Woolwich.
July 16, 1846.

DISCOVERY OF ANOTHER SAILOR GIRL IN LIVERPOOL.
—Cases of this description are are now becoming so general
that they cease to excite much interest. Yesterday a very
beautiful female, about seventeen years of age, was detected
in the act of passing herself off as a sailor on board one of
our merchant vessels. It appears she came here from
Omagh, in Ireland, and that having habited herself in
sailor's attire, she went upon the George's Pier. Here she
met with a person in the garb of a captain, who said that he
was willing to engage her upon the instant. With the cap-
tain she slept two nights, without his ever discovering her
sex ; but upon Tuesday evening last, herself and the captain
walked into the Police- office, High. street, to inquire after the
name of a person residing in Bolton-street, and then the pre-
tended female sailor was immediately recognised by Mr.
Leicester, the head clerk in the office. He instantly said that
she was a female, and it turned out that he was right; for,
upon being questioned, she acknowledged that she was a
farmer's daughter from Tyrone, and that she came here in
sailor's attire, with the intention of going to sea. She is at
present in a lodging-house at the top of Dale-street, and will
be sent back to her parents without delay.—Gore's Liverpool
Advertiser.

Mn. " WYNDIIAM " AGAlN.—lntelligence has just
bean received of some further " doings," of Mr. "Wyndham,"
whose swindling operations were successful in 'Windsor some
weeks ago. It appears that shortly after he left Slough he
proceed to the Royal Sussex Hotel, at Tonbridge Wells,
where he mixed in all the fashionable gaieties of the place
for between four and five weeks, assuming the name of Wel-
lesley. On the eve of his departure he called for his bill.
which amounted to about 301. He then very coolly drew a
cheque on a Gloucestershire bank for 501., and requested Mr.
Dowsing, the superintendent of the establishment, to give
him the difference in cash. Some little delay, however,
having taken place before the waiter returned to his room
with the expected change, it is supposed that the swindler's
suspicions were excited, for he immediately left the hotel.
and no tidings have since been heard of him. The 501.
cheque, which remains in the hands of Mr. Dowsing, upon
being compared with the two cheques held by Mr. Dotesio,
appeared clearly to be in the handwriting of the party who
assumed the name of '• Wyndham" at Windsor and Slough.
He, made his exit from the Royal Sussex Hotel so rapidly
that he left behind him his portmanteau, and took nothing
with him but the clothes which he wore. It is supposed
that he immediately left Tonbridge Wells by the railway fot
toWit•

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, July 17.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat on the Woolsack
shortly before Five o'clock.
Several railway Bills were brought up from the House of
Commons and read a first time.
SHEFFIELD AND LINCOLN RAILWAY.
A NOBLE Loan presented two wtitions in favour of this
railway, one of which was from the mayor and corporation of
Grimsby. His Lordship also expressed a hope that the Bill
would receive the assent of their Lordships.
LUNATICS BILL.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
Huntingdon against the Lunatics Bill of last session.
UNION SETTLEMENTS.
The NOBLE DUPE also presented a petition praying that
union settlements might not take place.
POST-OFFICE.
Lord BROUGHAM moved for a return of the revenue
and expenses of the Post-office for the year ending the 18th
of January, 1846, which was agreed to.
SALE OF INTOXICATING LIQUORS.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from the
churchwardens and overseers of Bury, in Lancashire, praying
their Lordships to pass a measure preventing the sale of spiri-
tuous liquors on the Sabbath.
BATHS AND WASHHOUSES.
The Right Rev. PRELATE also presented a petition from
the churchwardens and overseers of St. Clements Danes,
praying their Lordships to pass a measure to entitle parishes
to borrow money for the purpose of erecting baths and wash-
houses for the peor.

the principle would be adopted, which was that the public.
houses in the country should be closed from twelve o'clock on
Saturday night till one o'clock on Sunday.
SCOTTISH SCHOOLMASTERS,.
The Marquis of BREADALBANE presented a petition
from the schoolmasters in Scotland attached to the Free
Church, praying that they might enjoy the advantages now
possessed by those engaged in the service of the Established
Church of Scotland. It was known that not only were the
schoolmasters in that country subjected to intellectual examina-
tion, but also to religious tests, and at the present time a great
portion of those individuals were deprived of all the advantages
of employment in their proper vocation because they could not,
in their consciences accede to an establishment which wielded
all the patronage of their profession. There was a calculation
founded, he believed, in a correct knowledge of the country,
that about one-third of the schoolmasters of Scotland were
members of the establishment, one-third were members of the
Free Church, and the other third belonged to other com-
munities. He saw no reason why the prayer of this petition
should not be complied with, and he therefore moved that it
should be laid on the table.
LAW OF ENTAIL IN SCOTLAND.
The Marquis of BREADALBANE also presented a petition
from several landowners, praying that the law of entail might
be so altered as to give a more equitable right to the descendant
inheritors of land.

THE GAUGE QUESTION.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE, in bringing this subject before
their Lordships, felt it necessary to explain why, after it had been
announced, it had been so long delayed. He had been quite
ready to bring it before the House at the time appointed, but
their Lordships, owing to the change of Ministry, and the
important discussions in which they had been engaged, were
too much occupied to entertain it. But with the consent of
her Majesty's Government he was now quite ready to bring it
before their Lordships. From the present state of the House
he observed that there was not much anxiety respecting
the subject which he had to introduce, and he
would, if they thought proper, most readily postpone
it, although he would rather, if he now consulted his
own inclination, refrain from doing so. The chief
part of the matter had been so fully stated in the report
of the Commissioners, that he had little left to do than to re-
mind their Lordships of what had there been most amply and
perspicuously stated. The resolutions which he had to propose
simply proffered the result of that report, which was chiefly
filled by a consideration of the railway system. The object,
therefore, of these resolutions was in the first place to regulate
the gauge of railways already in existence, and further to
establish an uniform gauge for all railways that may hereafter
be formed. It would be necessary for him to revert a little in
order to put the House in
.possession of the circumstances
which had induced the inquiry of these Commissioners, and
originated the resolutions which he was about to propose. It
would be recollected that all the railways which had been first
formed were constructedon what was called the narrow gauge ;
but, contrary to the general belief, there did not appear to be
any particular reason why they should be formed of that par-
ticular width. On the contrary it would rather seem that it
was done without any definite cause, and arose more than any
thing else out of the circumstance that the earlier railways were
made to form communications with the tramways for the carriage
of goods and ores when they were drawn by horse power. The
usual width of the carriages drawn by these horses was
4 feet 81 inches, and that consequently became the common
gauge of the more important railways that were at first
formed. After some years a Bill passed through Parliament
for the formation of a railway from London to Bristol. In that
Bill there was no regulation respecting the gauge, and, as by an
agreement with Mr. Brunel, the directors had decided upon
taking the broad gauge, that line was formed with a width of
seven feet between the rails. There was no doubt but that
with the broad gauge there was the opportunity of getting
greater power and more speed, but the majority of the lines in
the country were constructed en the 4 feet 8 inch gauge.
But even that was not uniform, for while these two gauges
were used in some places, the Northern Railway was con-
structed on a gauge of five feet, and the Dundee and Abroath,
and the Abroath and Forfar Railways were constructed on the
five feet six-inch gauge. This was the case until the com-
mencement of 1845, when an immense mass of railways were
brought into Parliament, and the question of the break of
gauge forced itself on the attention of the Legislature. At
that time upwards of 1,900 miles of railway had been formed
on the narrow gauge, and about 300 miles on the broad
gauge, but then the several railways were not at that
time in connexion with each other. The Great Western line
was formed on the bread gauge, and the Eastern Counties,
and those running to the north, were made on the narrow
gauge, and as they did not join each other no inconvenience
had been suffered. But in 1845, Bills were brought into Par-
liament which compelled the attention of the Legislature. In
that session upwards of 150 Bills were brought under considera-
tion, and among them two on which the question of the
gauge was seriously involved. They were respectively for the
formation of lines from Oxford to Rugby, and the other from
Rugby, by Oxford, to Wolverhampton. The termini of these
lines would respectively meet with broad and narrow gauge
lines. There was a department of the Government whose
duty it was to consider the merits of the several lines about to
be submitted to the legislature, and after much discussion the
Members of that department had come to the decision that
these two lines involve,' an undoubted and serious evil—
namely, the break of gauge; and they recommended that in the
construction of all future railways, an uniform gauge should be
adopted. But in the meantime, a question had arisen in con-
sequence of the presentation of a petition in the other
House of Parliament, and a Commission was appointed
to inquire into the merits of the different gauges, the
Mem', ers of which sat for several months employed in
the arduous and anxious investigation. Upon the merits
of the several members of that Commission he was not dis-
posed to say anything. Ho was aware that they had, in con-
sequence of interested and garbled statements, been subjected
to gross misrepresentations and attacks, but he must take
leave to express an opinion that no men could have discharged
their duties more efficiently. Their report was now laid upon
their Lordships' table, and he should be saving their Lord-
ships time by stating the conclusions at which they had ar-
rived. In their report they say that, after much examination,
they are induced to state that the break of gauge is a
great and serious evil; that many mechanical means, such as
expanding axles, the moving of bodies, and other contrivances,
had been submitted to them, but that none of them were effec-
tual for the purpose for which they were intended. They
fully acknowledged that the difference of gauge was a serious
evil, and that it was exceedingly desirable that a uniformity 01
gauge should be established. It would appear from that
report that the narrow gauge was for the conveyance of pas-
Fengers, the more compact for the transit of express
trains, ..nd for the conveyance of passengers and light goods.
On this gauge there were upwards of 1,900 miles constructed,
while there were only 274 miles made upon the broad gauge.
They recommended that future lines should be constructed on
the gauge of 4 feet 81 miles. They recommended, secondly,
that the cornpani.s whose lines are made upon the broad „Tinge
should not alter them without the express permission of Go-
vernment; thirdly, that some means should be devised for
equalising the gauges, though they could not come to any
conclusi-m as to the means which were to be used
for meeting the expense ; and, fourthly, they ex-
pressed their opinion of the great commercial advantage of
retaining the narrow gauge, and of instituting it where it did
not already exist. It was certainly very desirable that some
means should be adopted equitable to all parties, for effecting
the change, and establishing an uniform gauge. For future
railways there would be no difficulty, if the recommendation of
the Commission were to be adopted, and the narrow gauge were
to be used ; but the difficulty chiefly arose from the change
from one gauge to another. From the estimates which had
been laid before the Commissioners, it appeared that the ex-
pense of the alteration would be about 1,500,0001., including
the alteration of the line, locomotives, and other things. It
was not right to appeal to the Exchequer for this great outlay,
for the country at large had little to do with the traffic on these
particular lines. Then again it was not right to call on the
Great Western Company to make the change at their own ex-
pense, for they had made their works under the sanction and by
the authority of Parliament, and it would therefore be a gross
breach of principle to ask that great company to be at the
expense of a million and a half, after they had provided the
best accommodation for railway transit in the country—after
they had not only introduced numerous and valuable improve-
ments, but had stimulated by their example all the other com-
panies to increased display of energy, and increased exertion.
If it were not right is come upon the Exchequer, still less was
it right to lay a tax on the other lines; for what reason was
there to impose a tax on the South-Western Company, who
were in many cases the opponents of the Great Western Com-
pany? The Commission did not recommend any precise plan,
that they left to Parliament ; but with respect to'the railways
about to be constructed, the resolutions which he had
to propose would in some degree prevent the evil.
( Hear, hear.) If the group of railways to the
south of the Great Western line was joined, then they would
get rid of the break of gauge which was at present com-
plained of. The greatest inconvenience would arise if
the break of gauge was continued at Rugby and
Gloucester, while the evils would be got rid: of
by the break made at Oxford and Gloucester. It 'Was also
proposed that with respect to the south-western district, the
break should be at Barnstaple, instead of at Reading. Accord-
ing to the arrangement proposed, all railways south of the Lon-
don and Bristol line would be on the broad gauge, with the
exception of that portion of narrow gauge railway which went
from London to Southampton. with its branches. This was
proposed, not as a compromise, but for the convenience of the
public. ( Hear, hear.) There was no compact at all in regu-
lating the matter. Whatever decision had been come to, was
in order to provide for the public accommodation in the best
possible manner. The railways south of the Great Western
Railway were to be permitted to be laid down on the broad
gauge, but then not without showing special grounds before a
Committee, as to such lines being required for the
public. There had been three great lines sanc-
tioned last session of Parliament. One was through
Wales by way of Gloucester. It would, perhaps, for local
purposes, have been better had that line been laid down on the
narrow gauge, but looking on it 83 a thoroughfare to Ireland,
he thought it would be better for that purpose that it should
remain on the broad gauge, for which the Bina& been passed.
The other two lines were the Oxford and Rugby, and the Ox-
ford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton lines. He regretted that
these lines had been passed on the broad gauge principle, and
it would have been well had the report of the Commission
been known before these Bills had passed into a law; still, it
having been so, there were clauses inserted in both Bills, by
which the Board of Trade could enforce the laying down
double lines of rails to a certain extent, so as to form an
efficient connexion with the various lines on the
the
eo
Board
dgeosf north Trade atnhdougshotuthit.
ex
pTehdei
en
texttoenetarrtyo
out
thehich
powers given them by those clauses appeared in the resolutions
he was about to submit to the House. The result of the whole

SIGNING PROTESTS.
Lord REDESDALE called the attention oftheir Lordships
to the signing of protests by Peers who were sot present at
the debates on the question to which their protests had
reference. He was fully aware that there was an impression
abroad, that unless Peers were present when questions were
put that they were not in a position to sign protests with
respect to them. He had referred to authorities,
and found an instance of a Peer signing a pre-
test who was not present at the debate on
the subject to which it had reference, in the person of the
Duke of Somerset, in 1823, who signed a protest when an
amendment was moved to an address to the Crown, he not
having been in his place at the time it was put, but as he was
present at the debate on the subject, leave was
given to his Grace to sign the protest. That
was the only instance he could find of recent
date. He had also referred to the first three volumes of
" Grantham," in which he found three cases of Peers signing
protest, who were not present at the debates on the questions
to which they referred. The first occurred on the
3d of September, 1678, when Lord Clare signed a
protest to a Supply Bill ; the next in 1720, fifty years
afterwards, by Lord Heytesbury, and the next by Lard Not-
tingham, who was not present. After referring to the stand-
ing order, he went en to say that there was nothing in it
requiring that Peers should be present at the discussion on
measures to enable them to sign protests with respect to them.
He had given their Lordships three instances in which it so
happened that there was a difference of fifty years between
the giving of those protests ; those Peers signed protests al-
though they were not present during the debates. The sub-
ject, however, was well worth an inquiry and alteration.
Lord CAMPBELL said that, in his opinion, those persons
only who were present during a debate were entitled to enter a
protest, because a protest was understood to come from a Peer
whose arguments had been overruled. But how could a
Peer who was never present at all during the debate be sup-
posed to be overruled in that sense ?
Lord BROUGHAM said that the Noble Baron (Lord
Redesdale) had, it appeared, given expression to the general
impression on this subject, but he did not exactly agree
with his Noble Friend's arguments as to the principles which
he had laid down with respect to the eternity of proxies.
Lord REDESDALE—Protests, not proxies.
Lord BROUGHAM...However, he hoped that these prac-
tices might soon expire notwithstanding the prayer which had
been offered by the Noble Marquis (the Marquis of Lans-
downe) for their immortality.—( Laughter. )
Lord LANSDOWNE—I did say colloquially, " immortal
may they be."
Lord BROUGHAM—" May they be"—(Great Laughter.)
some conversation ensued on the subject, in which several
Noble Lords took part.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.
Messengers from the Commons brought up several Bills.
SHEFFIELD AND LINCOLN RAILWAY.
Lord IC INNA IRD presented a petition in' favour of this
railway, and moved the third reading of the Bill.
The Earl of JERSEY opposed the third reading, and pro-
ceeded to allege residential injury in cases where compensation
could not be given. It passed for a length of two miles over
his property is a very objectionable manner—in such a manner
as be did not think the House would sanction. The Noble
Lord concluded by moving, that the order of the day for the
third reading of this Bill be discharged, and suspended until
February, 1647, in order that in the meantime the practicabi-
lity of forming a better and more direct line between Sheffield
and Lincoln may be considered, less obnoxious to the interest
of the landed proprietors, and more conducive to the public
interests.
Lord SOMERS replied to the. remarks of the Noble Duke,
and said that the Bill was well worthy of adoption on the part
of their Lordships. There 'were certainly some dissentients
on the line, but they were by no means numerous. He hoped,
in oonclu,ion, that they 'would pass the Bill, and so act in ac-
cordance with the, opinions of their own Committee which had
been appoint
Lord HA e(!.. to inquire into this subject.
.14BURY avowed his extreme distaste to all rail-
roads.— Laughter.)( Indeed he would, if he had the power,
coneigti them to a certain locality, to which he would not more
Particularly allude.—(Great Laughter.) This line proposed
aw mutilate his; property in a most objectionable manner.
However he world not oppose, although he did not mean to
support the Bill. He believed, in his conscience, that the
line would be as beneficial to the country as most of the lines
with which the were threatened.—(Hear, hear.)
Earl FITZWILLIAM was not about to enter upon a general
crusade against all railways, after the manner of his Noble Friend,
but he Must express his opinion that their Committees were
not constituted on just foundations. He denied that they
-.sere free from the charge of impartiality and ignorance. In
an earlier period of the session he had the good fortune to be
a member of one of those Committees, and he knew that his
duty was to perform his labours conscientious!' and imparti-
ally.--( Hear, hear.) But he was called upon to pronounce
upon a railway which would pass through a portion of the
country on which he had never put his foot; and, there-
Toro, he knew nut whether his decision was just or not.
It was a matter of notoriety that tha Parliamentary agents
took good care to bring forward what was called "good nit•
tresses" in favour of their eve; that was to say, men who were
not ovarserupulous in what they said; and he was afraid that
such men had been brought f .rward in support of this Bill.
He objected to this Bill because it was not a proper line, inas•
much as it would not pass through the important district of
Rotherham.—(Hear, hear.) He had reason to believe
that the Committee on this Bill dial not hear the engineer
that would have given evidence in favour of the rival Bill.
He would, therefore, gladly support the Noble Duke's very
reasonable proposition. That prupo.iiion would have the effect
of stopping the Bill this season, but it would be the most just
way of proceeding.
Lord BROUGHANI had no great opposition to offer to
the prop osition, but inasmuch as the stopping of this Bill, the
merits of which had been fully considered, would, in his
opinion, meate great mischief, because it would set the bad
precedent of upsetting the decision of the Committees.—
( Hear, hear.) He had no wish to consign this or any other
railway to that place where the iron would melt—( Laughter)
—but he certainly did regret seeing the face of the country
cut up for the purpose of railways, and the good old mode of
English travelling superseded.—( Hear, hear.) If the railways
were not sent to that place which had not been named, perhaps
the greater part of their promoters would --(Laughter.) He
should always object to cases like these being sent back to the
Committees.
Lord VAIJX, as a member of the Committee, replied to the
observations of the Noble Duke, and contended that they
were justified in coming to the decision that it was the best
and most direct line. In fact the Noble Duke himself, he be-
/ievr,d, was in favour of the line when it was projected.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE__ When was that ?
Lord VAUX—In 1845, he believed. He hopei their
Lordships would uphold the decision of the Committee by al-
lowing the Bill to pass a third time.
The Earl of RADNOR briefly supported the Bill. The
towns of Sheffield and Lincoln' if the Bill were thrown
but, would be deprived of a direct communication with
London, and many other advantages which it would confer
on them.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he by no means wished
to throw out this Bill. He also felt the mischief that would
follow the overruling of the decisions of the Committees, but
he really believed that the postponing of the Bill would be of
great service to the public.
After a few word from Lord KINNAIRD, in support of
the Bill,
The Duke of NEWCASTLE consented to withdraw his
motion.
RATIFICATION OF THE OREGON TREATY.
The Martinis of LANSDO WNE said that he had great sa-
tisfaction in laying upon the table of their Lordships' House,
according to her Majesty's commands, the treaty concluded
between her Majesty and the United States, for the settlement
of the o:egen question, the ratifications of which had been ex-
changed this day._( Lend cheers.)
CLASSIFICATION COMMITTEE.
The • Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved that the Earl of
ittAbdfford be added to the Committee of Classification, in the
room of Lard Besborough.
-VISCOUNT HARDINGE'S AND LORD GOUGH'S
ANNUITY BILLS.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the third reading of
these Bills.
The Duke of RICHMOND would not object at the present
stage of the proceedings, after the decision which had been
come to upon the subject. He thought, however, if passed,
they would lead to the establishment of a dangerous precedent.
He could not see why an officer of the army was not to be
rewarded in the same manner itia civilian. 'then there was one
subject connected with India which bad given him great regret.
It was, that more notice had not been taken of the gallant
officer Sir Charles Napier. He considered that he had been
as brave an Abler as any one who had commanded in that
country. He not only conquered Scinde, he defeated the
robber tribes, penetrated into their fastnesses with great
military skill, and with a great deal of hard work • and after
having endured many privations, he succeeded in taking them,
and showed himself an efficient civil governor. He brought
these tribes down, and made them cultivate the land ; they had
given up their predatory habits, and were now living in a
state
of honest industry. He had conciliated the affections of the
selciirrs under his command, and he was beloved by all the
people whom he had conquered. He therefore thought
that some mark of approbation, besides a mere vote of thanks,
should be bestowed upon him. He knew it was a very diffi-
cult subject to touch upon, connected as it was so closely with
the prerogatives of the Crown. He could not, however, allow
the present occasion to pass without expressing his regret that
the gallant services of Sir Charles Napier had not been re-
warded In the manner they deserved;
Lord BROUGHAM quite concurred in the opinion just
awpressed by the Noble Duke. He did not believe the history
of rn
war presented a more gallant soldier or a more able co-
In ander. lie thought, that even in the field of India, where
eo much gallant blood had been :hed,
aai.iadmmuch bravery!kxhibited, the battles in which the Ga
tGeneralwould
C.Napier had been triumphantly engaged stand out
gloriously prominent. The Noble Duke, who at one period
of his military career had served with such talent and bravery
in India, had alluded on a former occasicn to the incomparable
valour of Sir C. Napier. He quite agreed with the Noble
Duke who had just sat down as to the delicacy of dealing with
this subject ; but he thought the present case was one so strong
that it really seemed to furnish an excejtion sufficient to justify
the exception to the general rule.
After a few words from the Duke of GRAFTON, who said
be thought sufficient thanks had not been given to Almighty
God for their late successes in India, the Bills were read a
third time and passed.
SUNDAY TRADING.
The Bishop of OXFORD presented a petition from a place,
the name of which we were not able to catch, praying her
Majesty's Government to pass as speedily as possible a general
measure of a similar nature to that which had received the
sanction of the Legislature a short time since ; he meant the
Metropolitan Police Act, which prevented public-houses and
beer-shops from opening their shops for the sale of intoxicating
liquors on the Ltird's Day. He regretted the evils which arose
ham drunkenness among the labouring classes. He trusted that

recommendations of thil Board of Trade would be that the
south and southwest of England would be connected by means
of the broad gauge, while the south-east would be connected
by a narrow gauge line. To the north and the north-east, the
whole of England, including the manufacturing districts, would
be accommodated by the narrow gauge, and the latter would
also be connected with Bristol and the west of England by a
similar gauge. If the Manchester and Southampton line, which
had passed the House of Commons, passed their Lordships'
House, then their would be a continuous line of railway also on the narrow , gauge from Manchester to Southampton.
He also proposed that when once those arrangements
.
were carried out, that no directors of railways
should be permitted to alter the gauge. He had now endea_
voured to give an imperfect idea of what he proposed to carry
out by the resolutions. It might be said that he ought to
have proposed the whole scheme as recommended by the Com-
missioners' Report ; but, on careful consideration, he thought
the present course the most practical and advisable one. He
would not say any more at present, though he felt he had but
inadequately performed the task imposed on him, and would
sit down by moving the resolutions, which were as follow:-
1. That it is the opinion of this House that no line of rail-
way shall hereafter be formed other than four feet eight and a
half inches gauge, excepting lines to the south of the existing
line from London to Bristol, and excepting small branches of
four miles in length in immediate connexion with the Great
Western and South Wales Railways, but that no such line as
above excepted should be sanctioned by Parliament, unless a
special report shall have been made by the Committee on the
Bill, setting forth the reasons which have led the Committee
to advise that such a line should be formed on any other than
the four feet eight and a half inches gange.
2. That it is the opinion of this House that provision should
be made by law to prevent the directors of any Railway Com-
pany from altering the gauge of such railways.
3. That, in order to complete the general chain of narrow
gauge communication from the North of England to the
oouthera coast; sad to the port of Bristol, any suitable

sure be promoted to form a narrow gauge link from Gloucester
to Bristol, and also from Oxford to Basingstoke, or by any
shorter route connecting the proposed Rugby and Oxford
hue with the South Western Railway, without preju-
dice, however, to the formation of any other
line also connecting, upon one uniform gauge, and by a direct
route, the north of England with the southern coast.
4. That it is the opinion of this House that it is expedient
that the South and North Wales line, with its branches to Mon-
mouth and Hereford, should be formed on the broad guage.
5. That it is the opinion of this House that it is not expe-
dient to alter the provisions of the Acts for forming a line of
railway from Rugby to Oxford, and for forming a line of
railway from Oxford to Worcester and Wolverhampton, with
respect to the gauge on which they may be formed, or with
respect to the powers therein conferred on the Board of
Trade.

Lord REDESDALE said he did not intend to oppose the
resolutions proposed by the Noble Lord, though he was not
satisfied with them. Every one must feel that if a uniformity
of gauge were established it would be of great service to the
country.—(Hear, hear.) The narrow gauge was preferable
fir sours lines, but it was perfectly clear to the Commissioners,
who had been appointed to inquire into this subject, that the
broad gauge had a combination of advantages over the narrow.
—( Hear hear. ) For his own part, he believed that if a me-
dium gauge had been recommended it would have been met
with very little opposition. There were now 1,500 miles in
operation ; more than that were already granted, and still
more than that were in the course of being granted in the
present session of Parliament, and more would still be
sought for in the courseof the next three years, and he certainly
thought if the Commissioners had at thislmost opportune time
approved of a medium gauge, they would have done much to
remedy the evils of the contest between the two gauges. The
resolutions were objectionable, principally because they con-
templated the existence of two gauges. They were powerless
fur good, whilst they would sanction much evil. He did not
think that the two gauges worked well together, notwithstand-
ing the opinions of interested engineers. Mr. Brunel did not
say last session which gauge be was prepared to prefer—pro-
bably he had now arrived at some definite conclusion as to the
merits of the two schemes—and yet it was at that very time
that the Commissioners declared that it was perfectly easy to
work the two gauges in conjunction. He was afraid that the
working of the two gauges together was liable to great acci-
dents ; the narrow and the broad gauge carriages going at dif-
ferent speeds, would be continually coming into collision.
Although, as he had before said, he did not look upon the reso-
lutions with great favour, and at that late period of the session
he was not prepared to offer a decided opposition to them, be-
cause they might probably be of some service to the public,
still he must say that there was yet sufficient time for the Govern-
ment to inquire into the subject, and thus prove to the public
that they meant to come to some conclusion on this point, and
that they did contemplate favouring an uniformity of gauge.
He hoped that they would do their best to rid this country of
the evil of having two gauges.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord KlNNAlRD.prefectly concurred in the remarks of the
Noble Lord as to the evil of having two gauges, and he would
take the opportunity on some future occasion of moving for the
appointment of a Commission to take into consideration the
whole of the subject, and the great desirableness of establishing
a uniformity of gauge. He contended that the members of
the late Commission had not considered the subject in the spirit
intended by those who had supported their appointment. He
was glad to find that he would be supported in his motion for
such a Commission as he had alluded to. ,He had been informed
on good authority that had a uniformity of gauge bean insisted
on this session the expenditure consequent on the alteration of
the gauges on the part of the different railways in the kingdom,
which would have recognised it, would only have been 800,0001.
He objected, therefore, strongly to the resolutions.
The Earl of GALLOWAY thought the country was in-
debted to the Noble Lord who introduced these resolutions. He
thought there should be a resolution to suspend any farther
railway business till the question of the comparative merits of
the different gauges should be settled.
The Earl of WARWICK thought it highly objectionable
that any line should be laid down with both gauges, similar to
the proposed line from Oxford to Rugby.
Lord HATHERTON regretted that a subject of so much
importance shouki be brought forward in so thin a House.
He believed that the inconvenience of the break of gauge had
been purposely aggravated by the narrow gauge party for the
purpose of getting up evidence against the broad gauge, and
he believed if both the lines at that place were under the
management of Mr. Brunel, Mr. Saunders, and Mr. Gooch,
instead of Mr. Hudson, he thought there would have been
comparatively little heard of the inconvenience of a break of
gauge. He thought that the broad gauge must be extended
northwards, for the people of Liverpool and Manchester would
never be content to hear that the people of Exeter could travel
with so much more speed, safety, and convenience than they
could. He did not think there would be any inconveniences
from working a railway on the broad and narrow gauge, and
even if there were, the Board of Trade would have the power to
interfere to prevent the inconvenience.
Ti.e Earl of CLARENDON said that the able manner in
which the Noble Lord had expounded his principles to-night,
upon this impirtant subject, gave him some alarm ; he feared
that he should not have the abilities to follow in his steps, or to
discharge with the same abilities the duties of his office. It
would, however, be his highest wish to emulate the Noble Lord
in the discharge of those duties which devolved upon him as
his successor in the office of the Board of Trade, and whatever
information he might obtain in his office, he would use it to
promote, to the best of his abilities, an uniformity of gauge,
and an efficient settlement of the question.
The resolutions were then agreed to.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

frilE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 18, 1846.

thought the Bill should not be allowed to pass as a matter of
course.
Mr. HUTT considered that the right and privileges of
British subjects should not be lightly disposed of to persons who
did not intend to reside its this country, or render themselves
amenable to British law. Passing the present Bill would, in
his opinion, be establishing a dangerous precedent. He
thought the Bill should be referred to a Select Committee up
stairs.
Sir GEORGE GREY said he would support the Bill, and
he considered that it would be a most ungracious act to refuse
the privilege demanded.
The Bill was then read a second time.
Several reports were then brought up, and were considered.
THE FLEETWOOD, PRESTON, AND WEST RIDING
JUNCTION RAILWAY.

The Lords' Amendments to this Bill were considered and
agreed to.

MATTHYSEN'S DIVORCE BILL.
This Bill was read a second time.
PEMBERTON'S (OR GERVIS) ESTATE BILL.
This Bill was also read a second time.
GUILDFORD, CHICHESTER, AND PORTSMOUTH
RAILWAY (No. 2).
The Lords' amendments to this Bill were considered and
agreed to.
HOWELL'S CHARITY ESTATE BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
NEWRY, WARRENPOINT, AND ROSTREVOR
RAILWAY.
This Bill was also read a third time and passed.
ANDOVER CANAL NAVIGATION BILL.
The report upon this Bill was considered and agreed to.
MORTALITY IN THE ARMY.
Mr. WILLIAMS presented a petition from Coventry,
stating that the petitioners had heard, with very deep regret,
that a considerable mortality existed amoflg the British troops
quartered in the colonies, and they prayed the House to take
measures that no more troops be sent out until arrangements
had been made for proper quarters for the men.
The petition was ordered to lie upon the table.
OREGON—RATIFICATION OF THE TREATY WITH
THE UNITED STATES.

Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I have to lay upon the
table of the House a copy of the treaty between this country
and the Government of the United States respecting the
Oregon territory, the ratifications of which were exchanged this
day between myself and the accredited agent of the United States.
MILITARY FLOGGING.

Dr. BO WRING gave notice that he would, en Monday next,
ask a question of the Secretary for the Home Department
respecting the alleged death of a private soldier in
the 7th Hussars, stationed at Hounslow. It was reported that
the poor man had died in consequence of a military flogging for
some breach of discipline.
COMMONS INCLOSUR F. BILL.
Lord CLI VE wished to know from the Right Hon. Gentle-
man the Secretary for the Home Department if he intended
to bring forward any measure of this nature during the present
session.

Sir G. GREY said that the Commissioners had adopted the
same course this year as they had done in former years, and an
Act had been passed in the month of May, which applied to
seven eases of enclosure. No subsequent report had been
made since by the Commissioners to the Secretary of State, but
from a conversation which he had with them, he understood
that there were fifteen additional cases. On receiving a special
report from the Commissioners in reference to these cases,
stating the grounds on which they rested each, it would be his
duty to consider the propriety of bringing in a Bill embracing
them. He had some doubts, however, whether they could con-
sistently with the provisions of the Enclosure Act, introduce a
Bill ; but if on inquiry he should find this to be the case, and if
the Commissioners made a special report before the close of the
session, he should consider the propriety of preparing a measure
to carry their recommendation into effect.
The Earl of LINCOLN said that, as the Right Hon.
Gentleman had expressed some doubts whether he could bring
in another Inclosure Bill during the present session, he begged
to inform him that the same difficulty occurred to him when
he held office ; and he assured the Right Hon. :Baronet that
no difficulty whatever existed, for there was nothing what-
ever in the Enclosure Act to prevent him from carrying the
recommendation of the Commissioners into effect by the intro-
duction of another Bill during the present session.
ADJOURNAIENT OF THE HOUSE.
It was then agreed that the House, at its rising, do adjourn
till Monday next.
On the motion for reading the order of the day for going
into Committee of Supply,
After some conversation between Sir De Lacy Evans, Sir
Howard Douglas, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the
purport of which did not reach the gallery,
EDUCATIONAL ESTIMATES.
_ _

certain of the lower branches of the public service, made avail-
able to them on the ground of merit.
The SPEAKER then put the question.
Lord SANDON said he did not agree in all the sentiments
which had been expressed, but he admitted the general prin-
ciples on which the motion was based. At the same time he
recommended that the subject should be left over in the hands
of the Noble Lord at the head. of the Government. The great
difficulty was, that in these endowed schools nobody but a
lawyer could manage the funds.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
The trusts for educational and other purposes, which were to
be found all over the country, were in the hands of lawyers.
He would not take up the time of the House longer, but hoped
the Noble Lord would give the subject his most attentive con-
sideration.

Sir R. INGLIS concurred with the Hon. Gentleman, that
her Majesty's Government ought to have a fair and impartial
trial with regard to this great question. He trusted that his
Noble Friend at the Head of the Government would weigh well
every suggestion made to him, before he adopted it. As this
was not the time to go into the question fully, he would reserve
his remarks till a future occasion.
Mr. WARBURTON thought the Government ought not
to lose sight of the last proposition of the Hon. Member for
Dumfries. Let none be presented to places of the Treasury,
or to any of the subordinate offices of Government, unless
they were properly qualified to fill them. He would be sorry
to take away Parliamentary patronage, but let no Member
seek to procure a situation in the Customs or Excise for any
individuals unless they were properly qualified. By the late
Government the general registry office was so inadequately
managed by the clerks who were appointed to it, that it was
for a long time very inefficient. By the previous Government
also the office of bankruptcy was filled by a number of clerks
whose intolerable incompetency was a matter of notoriety. The
late Government, he understood, did away with the tests to
ascertain the qualification of clerks for the Treasury, but, in
his opinion, they did not act wisely in doing so, for he con-
sidered that their continuance would tend very much to pro-
cure a more efficient body of persons to fill those situations.
Mr. WILLIAMS hoped the Noble Lord would take the
matter into his early and fullest consideration. In Scotland
the progress of education was most gratifying. The country
looked up to the Noble Lord with the most hopeful feeling,
and he (Mr. Williams) sincerly trusted it would not be disap-
pointed. In France, the vote passed in the Chamber of De-
puties this year was upwards of 700,0001. sterling. He hoped
her Majesty's Government would give the question of educa-
tion their most deliberate and early consideration.
Mr. HUME considered that the moral state of the people
was as important as their physical wants. He saw with regret
that education was of late years more opposed by Dissenters
than by the members of the Church of England. The state
of education in this country rendered them the reproach of
Europe. England had one in eleven educated ; Belgium one
in ten ; France one in ten • Friesland, and other places in
Germany, one in six, on in five, and one in four • so that in
this country, as compared with some of the states of Germany
there was twice as much ignorance.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
England also was the only place where children of differ-
ent religions were not allowed to attend the same school.
If they were at all in doubt how that united system operated
he should say to them that they should be cautious how they
proceeded, but they had the example of Ireland, and with that
example all doubt as to the result was removed. The Irish
system had been successful in Liverpool, and it was also
attended with complete success in Holland, where children
of all creeds were educated together. If, instead of expending
large sums in the maintenance of crimirals, they were to apply
it to the education of children, there would not only result a
considerable benefit, but even a saving of expenditure. The
time was now come when the Government could attempt to
introduce that means which had been so successful in Ireland,
and he had not the smallest doubt that the country would aid
them in their endeavours, and their efforts would be found of
benefit to all classes.
Mr. J. STEWART admitted the importance of the subject
under consideration, He thought that the education of the
people of this country was one which ought to deeply interest
the Legislature. He did not, however, think that the subject
had at all been fully explained or put forward by what had
taken place that evening. These who brought forward that
motion, seemed to take the opportunity of attacking the Esta-
blished Church- The Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool
had departed from the subject of education, and had spoken of
the administration of justice in the courts of the law. The
Noble Lord had spoken of the difference between a rich man
and a poor man in a court of law, and had stated that the price
of justice in an unopposed case was 701., and for an opposed
case he did not know how much. The Noble Lord should spe-
cify the case which had occurred, and bring it forward for inves-
tigation, in justice to his own character and the character of the
Court in which it was tried. The Court to which he belonged
was very unpopular, and it was so because it was exclusively
engaged in investigating those cases where breaches of trust had
existed for a long series of years, and the persons who smarted
under its influence abused it. He said there was no member
of the professson to which he belonged would refuse their assist-
ance towards the amendment of the law. It was easy to cry
out about abuses, but much more difficult to remedy them.
Why; he held in his hand a Bill got up under the patronage
of the society for the amendment of the law and introduced
into the upper branch of the Legislature—a Bill for facilitating
conveyance of property— which showed what labour was neces-
sary for the amendment of the law. Yet that Bill, he said was
a vast mass of absurdities, which, he was sure, no Member of
that House would take in hand. This only showed the diffi-
culty of the subject of which the Noble Lord had spoken with
such levity.
Mr. HORSMAN thought that no system of education would
ever be successful, which was not accompanied by a system of
close inspection ; and hoped, the Noble Lord would recollect
the remark of the late Minister, that no vote would be asked
on the subject of education, without a statement concerning
the state of it in this country.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL. said he would confine himself to
a very few observations, as any lengthened statement at pre-
sent would rather impede than further the progrem of the ques-
tion. The statement of the late first Minister of th e Crown, in
reference to the vote on education, had been refer'ree-I to by the
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. Such a statement,
he thought, would be the means of furthering educatiott, and it
was, besides, due to the House, so as to enable the House to
comprehend the real state of the country in that respect, and
take such measures as would further their views. He owac. d,
however, in reference to what had fallen from Hon. Members,
that he did not think the same facilities were to be found in this
country which existed in foreign countries for the establishing
of a national system of education, One great impediment to it
consisted in the voluntary efforts which had been made for
conventional purposes.—(Hear, hear.) Laws might be
promulgated in Russia, because there they had the
power to make them absolute ; and those who sat in the Par-
liament of Scotland, in the year 1696, had the full confidence
of that country, agreeing with them in a national religion.
This remark was applicable in some degree to what had been
done in Ireland some years ago, under Lord Grey's adminis-
tration, but in this country the question was in a very differ-
ent situation. Efforts had been made on the national system
to supply schools; the British school society had also established
schools in various districts; various denominations of dissen-
ters, Wesleyan and congregational, had shown the greatest
zeal in the establishment of schools. These bodies had got
their own rules and their own systems which they had
established in the schools they supported. They were proud,
and justly so, of what they had done; they had admitted the
light of the Gospel into the cottages of the poor, and had
disseminated instruction in the manufacturing districts. It
was not wonderful, therefore, that in their attempt to introduce
a national system they should meet with opposition ; that such
persons should dislike that which seemed to destroy their own
benevolent labour. He said he stated these things to show
what any Government which interfered on this question would
have to consider. Yet he said, after all that had been done by
benevolent persons in the Church, by Dissenters, ansi by per-
sons in high stations and in low in this country, for the educa-
tion of the people, it was a lamentable fact that great ignor2n.ce
still prevailed; be said it was a lamentable fact, because tt;e
disgrace to this country was light compared with the evil itself.
But it was evident that, in this situation at least, great advan-
tage would follow from the establishment of additional day-
schools, and in having the condition of the schoolmasters
raised in this country. Perhaps Parliament might fall short
of what it would wish to accomplish, yet it was well
that such as the Hon. Member for Dumfries called the
attention of the House to the subject, as he was certain it
would have the effect of conferring additional influence on it.
t was a matter of great importance to have a measure which
would make large sums in endowed schools more available.—
( Hear, hear.) He could not agree with the scruples of the
Hon. Member for Oxford, who thought that, in a case where
Greek and Latin were to be taught, and no one learned Greek

Mr. EWART moved, " That it is expedient that an annual
statement on the state and prospects of education be made by a
responsible Minister of the Crown, on going into Committee
on the education estimates. 2. That it is expedient that the
formation of additional training schools for schoolmasters be
encouraged. 3. That it is expedient to encourage the forma-
tion of public libraries, freely open to the
.public, in large
towns. 4. That it is expedient that appointmentseto the
subordinate offices of, Government be made, as far as possible,
en the principle of open examination of the respective qualifi
cations of the candidates." The Hon. Member said
that he rose with some reluctance to trouble the
House with this motion, but he thought that it was
one of considerable importance, and one requiring the most
serious attention of the House. He had spoken last year to
the Right Hon. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury, and
requested him, as the first officer of the Crown, to allow a state-
ment of this nature to be made upon going into Committee.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had at once assented to his re-
HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 17.
quest.. There were statements made on the army estimates,
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. on the navy estimates, and he did not see why a statemhnt on
NEW MEMBERS. this subject should not be made also. In foreign countries
Mr. Mace ULAY took the oaths and his seat for the city of libraries were generally open to the people, but in the event
Edinburgh. of a foreigner coming over here he had no means of obtaining
Mr. RICH also took the oaths and his seatfor Richmond; and any entrance there, except under certain troublesome rules.
Mr. GIBSON CRAIG took the oaths and his scat for the city Such a fact was a disgrace to the country, and one to which he
of Edinburgh. would call the attention of the House at some future period.
Mr. B. BALDWIN moved that Cameron's Coalbrook On the subject of education it was remarkable that this country
Steam Coal and Swansea and Loughor Railway Bill be read was behind every other. It was now about tweuty years since
the third time, notwithstanding the certificate required by the Lord Breugham had first brought this important subject before
resolutions of the House, on the 233 day of August last, to be Parliament, and some time subsequently a Committee
'deposited in the Private Bill-office has not been deposited had been appointed, from which but little had re-
three clear days, such certificate having only been deposited suited. The maximum of the advantage was that
upon Tuesday, the 14th day of this instant July.—Agreed to. 30,0001. a-year had been appropriated for the purposes of
The Bill was then read a third time and passed. ; education, and he now saw that 100,0001. was proposed for this
STOCKPORT IMPRO VEMENTBILL. , year. In Switzeraland, with a population of 2,300,000, he
Mr. BROTHER TON moved the third reading of this I ;ill.
Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE presented a petition, signed by lous counties of Lancashire and Yorkshire, with a population
found that there were thirty normal schools, while in the pops-
3,795 of the inhabitants of Stockport, against the proposed Bill
of nearly three millions and a half, there were not more than
The petition stated "That the Bill had been introduced. into five normal schools. In France there were thirty normal
the House against the consent of the inhabitants. They: bd schools, all of which had been begun antler Napoleon. It had
always had the power of disposing of their own money, ar al this ' been carried out in 1833,. most efficiently, by M. Guizot. It
hadpreceded-in ' other countries of Europe this their career of
Bill would take away that power from them." The. Hon. was a disgrace to this country, in his estimation, that all the
Member then said that the inhabitants of the hor
_mph re-
garded this Bill as a gross job. It was proposed enlightened policy, and he trusted that the deficiencies which
to raise, provided this Act were passed, the sum of 100,000/. appeared in the reports of the inspectors of education would
upon the security of the rates. When that money was in the not be long before they were supplied. He had observed that
possession of the town council they were to have the ells ;at the system followed in Switzerland was one which prevented
of it without the control of the ratepayers, and the fs.et was, that spirit of ambition which was so rife in that country. The
that a great part of it would go to benefit their own properties' primary schools are extended to all the provinces of France,
The Member for Stockport was certainly betey,e ' and it was so arranged that if the communes could not meet
two fires. There was the liberal town council u the expense the difference was paid out of the Treasury.
the one hand, and the ratepayers on the other,
and in this dilemma the Hon. Member entrusted the
Ili J 1 t i —(Hear, hear.) He found that they had the state-
ments of the different inspectors from their reports.
the Hon. Gentleman who had moved it. The House it 1 all He would state that there was a lamentable deficiency in the
affairs of Railway Bills required that a majority of the sh are- means of educasion for the poor, and far inferior to the rate
holders should guide the affairs of the Company, and in ,tiies of the United States and Switzerland; in the former of which
case he would promise, that if a general meeting of the r: tee_ it was one in four, and in the latter state it was one in five of the
payers were called within the week, and they supported xhe population who were receiving education. He was one of those
Bill, to withdraw all opposition. But they would .mot who believed that the compulsory system was not a beneficial
do that, for the Bill was not of a nature to bear the 1; Oa, system. He must also call the attention of the House to the
The effect of the Bill would be to remove all control from -the case of the schoolmasters of this country, a body of men who
hands cf the ratepayers over the money raised on their r atm,. devoted themselves, with admirable principle to the services
He would move that the Bill be read that day three moot' ea, ,' of the country, and whom he should like to see elevated in
The motion was then put. their condition before the public. He considered that there
Mr. BROTHERTON said that the Hon. Memb•Pv for was not a more honourable profession than that of a school-
Finsbury had characterised this Bill as a gross job, and reoke
as if he (Mr. Brotherton) were connected master.—( Hear, hear.) It was not estimated by many as it
'with ought to be, but it was a high and honourable profession, and
it. He begged to say that he only moved the while he was upon this point he might refer to the celebrated
third reading in the absence of the Hon. Mt nriber letter of Monsieur Guizot to the schoolmasters of France, in
for Stockport, and whether it was carried or not it was a -seat- which he bad stated his feelings upon this subject in such just
to purchase the manorial rights, in order to save the e Isle
ter of great indifference to him. The objects of the Bill and elevated language that he would trespass upon the
were
from oppression, to purchase the waterworks in order tol ;i- ep°i' it patience of the House by reading it.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Member then read a long extract from the letter, which the people with water, and to establish baths and wash
.11 aolis)e's desired the schoolmasters to remember in their loneliness and in the town. There was no opposition to the Bill in C m emit- solitude the sacred duty which was committed to them, and
tee, except by one man, who came from the borough, N ,e: cy ill_ that they then ought to gather hope and strength from their
provided with money, in order to oppose one clause, •,which work. In the various countries of the Conjinent the eduea-
allowed the Chartists to ring bells through the street: a, they tion and moral condition of children, but especially of the
being too poor to advertise or placard their meetings. () f the poorer children, was carefully attended to, which he re-
numerous names which appeared on the petition i—of gretted to say was not the case in this country. Many teachers
the whole 3,795, he would venture to say that not NC I were in the schools devoted to the poor, were extremely ignorant
ratepayers. If the Hon. Member had ever been in Sto cl :port, both of grammar and spelling ; and a report by John Watson
he must have seen that there was not a town in E 'ae gland set forth, that not only was this the case, but that a kind of
which required improvement mote, and this Bill was bro u 'ht in " scholastic slang" was prevalent amongst them; and they were
for 'the purpose of enabling the Town Counsel] to continually committing a gross violation of the commonest
give that improvement at the most economical rate, principles of their native tongue, as they were in the habit of
He said the Bill had received the unanimous assent of . a re- saying, " them books," " them houses," " them children," &e.
spectable Committee ;he had heard no valid objections against Of course, if there was this ignorance on the part of the
it ; uo clause was in it but stash as was sanctioned by o ne Act teachers, the scholars entrusted to their care could not be
of Parliament or another, and he was amazed that th e eloa, otherwise than ignorant. He then referred to the pamphlet of
Member should lend himself to the party who opposed it, Dr. Hook, and complimented the doctrines it contained with
Mr. ESCOTI' said he had received a petition from L a rate- respect to education. Between five and seven millions a year,
payer in Stockport, who mentioned that he had o
PP ased the
td • was ant hnually derived from charity for the purpose of support-
Bill because several clauses in it were opposed to th, 3 statute irtg charity schools, and upwards of 400,0001. annually for the
law of the land ; but that a compromise h: been ,
support of grammar-schools, showing the great interest taken
entered into, which, however, had not be :en fal_ by the opulent in the education of the lower classes, and that
filled. He (Mr. Escott), therefore, begged an ex_ the Government ought to aid those schools by grants. He
planation of this from the Hon. Member (Mr. Bro therton)
then called the attention of the House to the state of edu-
or if he were not prepared, that he would consent to the third cation in Scotland, and highly eulogised the system as the
reading being postponed. means of educating all, and of creating men of great eminence.
Mr. BROTHERTON did not feel himself prepare .'d te) enter
From the introduction of the present system of education into
into all the facts connected with the Bill. Scotland, ignorance had been driven from the country, thus
Mr. HUME suggested that at least time should
pur-
to inquire into the facts, but he thought that on look rig sued in this country. He must say, however, that the system
at the
se given showing that the parochial system was superior to the one
nature of the Bill, that it would be better to pestp on 4 lit for there required great reform. He thought that a better system
one year, till they could pass one Police Bill and o me Paving
attentionfha
Bill, to affect all places alike as well as a Bill affectirrg
•gth a eana, masters to the heritors entirely.
r,be
me eTtehedhfieyet o
amount
Ireland. Now he was
in g this Bill. He could not agree with the el .auses of thess u fri: might: Member
ma dboeprte dotihra. than leaving
and
the appointment
m a suggested
sotfedthebsyc h otohle..
the system of education in
tory condition of towns.
Sir R. INGLIS did not think a case was made , Jut
for Pass. happy v to say that the system
Bill ; they were quite wrong, and he should vote A vitla i
Mr. GREENE would oppose the further ogress of the education. He said Mr. Kay properly More than half
t ie Hon. had been productive of the best results.a
paedopted by Lord Stanley,
Member tor Finsbury on the subject.
million of children were now receivionrrgl. good
:
which would
Bill; some of the ela.uses were highly objectionable, the House to the increase of po ~
(7..
Mr. THORNELV approved of the jprinci 1 e•
e of th e • . . ous-door relief was perfectly astouncurre• But, he asked,
ants of the town if i t were passed ; and heg should th vote with his Hon. Priend in favour of the Bill.
t therefore They They certainly had not been using those means
influence of which they
Mr. WAK LEY said the clauses in this Bill confer dignity of characer, under the ,
support by •
(276 ~,. would shun crime and •
contribute to their own their
number) were of the most unusual, oppressive, and r estri r - labour, inorder race of becoming paupers.
character, and he thought the better
.course would b a to re 4".
' Of thisii lto avoid the disgrace
that Parliament could
the Bill at once. Such a course would be better than plestct. introducee(Mr. Swart) was certain that
without at all in-
poning the consideration of the subject to a future d,ay, ' tf . a. national system of education,
sect in the country; Mr. HAWES said he knew nothing of the er ering with the religious oinions of any
13111, and he . and there was this besides, that whatever might be
thought it a great hardship to threw it out at -once. Still adopted, there wouldg:lard
bein
this
free country, an ae-
there were clauses which had been referred to to which he Peal against any abuse twoaPaar •a, ent. He thought the House
yr
at drewhtee s
could not agree. The best course he thought would he the was called on to make such a lir:vision for the use of the po_
postponement of 'she Bill for a few days. By that step all the Pular orders in the state. p Democracy was prevailing in
valuable parts of 'cle Bill might be retained, and the objection- the country, and no doubt would continue ; and, therefore,
able portions ren loved. for the peace and safety of the country, they were bound to
Mr. DUNCOMBE intimated that he would press his amend- attend to the education of the people.
The Hon. Member
ment to a division. concluded by making the motion of which be a given
The d • ven
The gallery was then cleared for a division. notice.
After being nor some time excluded, we were again admitted Mr. CHRISTIE rose to second the motion, He said he had
and found
' at an early part of the session
given notice of a motion for an
Mr. MILN'Eft GIBSON speaking, who stated that he inquiry into the state of d •n at Cambridge and Oxford,
e ucatto
thought the throwing out of this Bill would with a view to int • tin the same, and to
prove a harsh roducing improvement
measure.
the admission of persons of all religious sentiments to the ad-
After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON it was agreed ,
vantages of those Universities. He did not mean to bring for-
that the Bill should be read a third time this
I BISHOP OF JERUSALEM'S day fortnight. ward that motion during the present session, he would poste
I NATURALISAT '
.10.1 c pone it till next session, when he expected it would receive the
BILL.
' Mr. HOD ;ON moved the second reading attention of the House. He said they would soon be tailed on
of this Bill r
had stated the other evening that the party who ' to give a vote
„ for the professors at these two Universities.
was the h' of this Bill was not resident in this country, o sect He had called for a return, with a view to fl-
...., of the state of
nor was he likelyto the lectures and the attendance ''' •
be so, but, nevertheless, from the contribution of the y - on
to the Universities,
e ueen to and he found by that re' ..nomthe fund for the support of the bishopric, he became e • they were in a most
entitled to deplorable state. Dr,' -.urn that
the protection of the British authorities.
chemistr s return showed that a professor of
Lord PAL dIERSTON thought it quite necessary, for the • for 18 y had -
en attendance f !elite for 1843, four
proper perfor mane of his duties and as the representative of ' present 44,
thirteen for lo, and sixteen for the
British inter, tats, that he should be a naturalised English sub- : (11 . year. The Professor Natural Philosophy, who, he
ject. It woeild bean anomaly to suppose him to represent the r 1 isladronhristie) rernembereg o
to have a large audience, interests of This country were he not a naturalised member C. ,f he tho ly ten or twelve pr ..t, used
This state of things,
that country., He hoped the House would not, therefore, et th bght, ought not, t 4',,ils last year.
They would
the Bill. en e called o alsopass without notice.
University. He to -e
vote of money to the London
Dr. BOTNRIN G stated that the Hon. Member was quite / (available - • II
-2'
i, to pass a
institution was not made
to the us .1 sorry that that . error in supposing that the naturalisation cf this individu • ' flowed - for all the advantages which
al .out of it. attest extent,
would prc,tect him from the power of the Ottoman Porte •nent given to oung
. •
He p, arsons in the . Nor was there encourager , Y.
ill their oder schools and universities, who might beii imulated
Ation by the prospect of obtaining employment in
....

and Latin, yet Parliament was not to touch the funds because
some one might rise up who would learn Greek and Latin. He did
not expect the Hon. Member, with all his known reverence
for things established and ancient, could have gone so far. He
(Lord John Russell) assured the House that he would give the
subject his best attentiou, and that when it came again before
the House, that he would make a statement which might show
that he had not altogether failed of his promise.—( Hear.)
Mr. P. BORTHWICK said, they did not make a
man a better member of society by teaching him to
read or to write. They did not make his morals better
by instructing him in chemistry.—(Hear, hear.) He
called on the existent state of morals in universities to bear
witness to the truth of his assertion.—(Hear, hear.) He
hoped he would never see the task of public education taken
from the worthy hands in which it was at present vested, to
those of a public Minister. The object of education was net
to make good scholars, but good morals. However amiable the
intentions of the Members for Montrose and Dumfries, the ob-
ject of their proposition would be to make men more clever

- •
criminals than they were at present.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN MANNERS said, he could not imagine that
any desire could be manifested to assimulate the education of
this country with France or Prussia. If they observed the
present opinions delivered from the chairs of the French
College they could not fora moment wish for such an assimu-
lation ; whatever good had been achieved by the educational
system which at present existed, was entirely in connexion
with the church.

Dr. BOWRING considered that the French and Prussian
educational system was much misunderstood. He was sorry to
say that religious tests had been applied to the candidates
before admission into schools, and he would regret it extremely
if there should be an attempt to meddle with the liberty of the
subject under the pretence of introducing a national system of
education.
Mr. ESTCOURT joined completely in the opinion which
had been expressed, that education without reference to
morals would be in itself a bad and dangerous system, and he
tdriadnstfheerrreefdo rfrenmconthsied
he rantdhsaitn twh d
he
inhuit of e
it was
was
adt uperaetsieonnt shouldd. be
After a few words from Mr. E WART in explanation, the
motion was negatived without a division.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. HUME objected to the method in which the sums of
money granted for education was distributed. Poor districts
did not receive the sums of money, whereas rich ones did, and
this was because there were certain qualifications required be-
fore money would be granted.
Sir JOHN PARKER said that the report upon education
would show the distribution of the money.
Mr. WILLIAMS considered that there shoult' be a general
inspection of the whole of England and Wales, and that such
districts as showed an unwillingness to comply with the requi-
site qualifications required by Government, should be com-
pelled to do so by a rate levied upon the inhabitants.
The sum of 100,0001. was then agreed to for the purposes
of education. ,On the item of 85,0001. for educatit_.
n in Ireland,
hoped they would
Sir ItOHERT INGLIS said that h.:~i,
y
permit the members of the Church in Irelat,. money
granted
4, as members of
a united church, to apply for a portion of the .
„l
matter ofion of the
to the National Church, and that a fair prep
money would be accorded to them. This was a .

"
Ultry v..... ‘tice •
Mr. HUME said that the fund in Irelfnd was administered
quid be no fault
with great fairness and equity, and there
c.
found with it.
After a few words from Mr. P. BORTHWICK,.
ond the
Lord J. MANNERS rose, he said, simply to se:
appeal of the Hon. Member for the University of Oxford. He
hoped that what he had thrown out would be duly attended ts.'
by the Government. He could not see how they could make
an exclusive grant to the so-called national system of education,
and deny a similar grant to that system of education in connec-
tion with the Irish Church.
Mr. HAMILTON quite agreed with the sentiments which
had fallen from the previous speakers as to the grant in qus-
tion.
Mr. HUME said the national system was established by
Lord Stanley, and had been found most useful in its working.