The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-13 00:00:00

THE SUN_ LON DON, FRIDAY EVEN 'Nil, FEBRUARY 13 1846.

ealcule tea to hive the effect of harmonising
the different cases of this country,
course it would be beneficial, and ne sh oule
heartily rejoice in it, He regretted, however, to hum
the Noble Lord the Member for Loudon hold out a hope
to the labouring . classes that this measure would im-
prove their condition. It might stimulate trade, and have
a tendency further to develop manufactures, but he was
afraid that one eiftet of that would he to keelt down wages.
The Hon. Member for Northamptonshire (Mr. Staffierd
O'Brica) had said truly, in his address the other even-
ing, that since the national vtealth had so much in-
creased, a considerable depreciation had taken place in
the condition of the working classes ; that, though they
might have great influence among the upper and middle
ranks of society, they would find the condition of the
labouring classes gradually getting worse. What they
wanted was the taking of direct step , it, order to cif et
an improvement. It was not by a commercial code,
but by direct and specific measures, that the condition
of the labouring classes was to be advanced. But such
was the attachment of Hon. Members on the opposite side
of the House to their political economy, that when the
Noble Lord the Member for Dorsetshire (Lord Ashley)
proposed his measure for the limitation of the hours et
employment for the labouring classes, they reviled at
his benevolent endeavours.—(Hear, hear.) If they were
asked for their support to any measure for the religious
instruction of the people, or to advance their moral good
and social comforts, what was the answer ? If the
Right Hon.. Baronet a: the head of the Government were
to propose any scheme of that kind, he would be met by
a distinct refusaL—(Hear, hear.) The commercial code
might do some good to the manufacturers, but would not
advance the condition of the labouring classes. Tee
country, were it passed, would still be liable to those
revulsions, and that distress to which the Right Hon.
Baronet referred in his speech of 1842. There would
be the same periodical visitations, and though capital
might abound, without credit it would be unavailing.—
(Hear, hear.) They might expect that in years of de-
ficient harvests the labourers would suffer, and not being
able to purchase of the manufacturers, general distress
would prevail. Even if the corn-laws were aban
doned they would still be as much affected by a de-
ficient harvest as before. They would find, with a good
harvest a prosperous trade, and w hen the harvest was
deficient, distress and decline in Lancashire and York-
shire.—(llear.) He would call the attention of the
House to a circular issued by Messrs. Fergusson and
Taylor, corn merchants of America, who stated that
their experienee went to show that in years of deficient
harvest great distress pervaded in the home market.
Those gentlemen said that in September last there was
an apparent langour or disaster in the first harvest, and
that instant the home market began to decline.—(Hear.)
Buyers were scarce, and goods were left upon the owners
hands. Hon. Members proposed that corn should be
brought from abroad to remedy that evil. But if those
lion. Gentlemen would look to the working te
the system, he thought they would find a dif-
ference in the results in different places. The
Hon. Member for Stockport (Mr. .Cobden) had
calculated in his speeches (and he admitted that his cal-
culations wet e correct) the amount of produce brought
from the English soil to be 200,000,000. Mr. M'Cul-
loch made a similar calculation. Now, when there came
such a year as that of 18:38, in which there was a defi-
ciency in the harvest of four per cent., and when there
came such a year as 1839, when the deficiency was eight
per cent., was it not perfectly clear that they would be
taking away from the exchangeable wealth o'
the country, an amount varying from 8,000,000
to 6,000,000 ?—(Hear, hear.) That must be admitted
by all parties. Would the green corn from abroad meet
that deficiency ? He conceived that it would not. It
might accomplish other objects, but it would certainl,
not meet the deficiency which would take place after th'e
repeal of the corn-laws. If the aggregate manufacture:
of this country expected a defence from the aggre-
gate agriculture of England equivalent to 200,000,0001
a year, there would be a failure to the extent of
8,000,0001. worth in the next year, and in the next yeas
to the extent of 16,000,0001. It was perfectly clear the'
theirforeign demand, great asit might be, would notmeei
that deficiency whiith w ould occur in the home market. Let
the en erite their foreign demand as high as they chose—
assuming that after the repeal of the corn-laws they
should gain such a development of trade as they antici
pated (and which he sincerely wished for them)—still tht
manufactures of this country would be greater than the
aggregate demand of both the home and the foreign
markets; and if there were a failure in any one year, as
there would be in their home market, they would haet-
the same languor in trade, they would have the same
dulness in prices, and the same difficulties for thee
labouring population to undergo, and the same pres
sure in the homes of the poor of this country.—(Hear.)
And, after all, he would assume that they wools
gain a development of foreign trade, they would
still have the same languor and deficiency, produced
by a languid and deficient harvest—(Hear, hear)—and
that deficiency would entail upon those engaged in
manu'actures, and the labouring population generally
great priyations. And he therefore frankly confessed
that he could not join with those who anticipated,
as the result of the proposed commercial re-
laxation, a larger development of manufactures. Bui
while he, on the one hand, did not think that they
would escape the difficulties arising from a de-
ficient harvest, he, on the other hand, did think
that they might be bringing upon the country very seri-
ous difficulties of another kind, to which their attention
did not seem to have been directed, but which he con-
fessed deserved their best and most deliberate con-
sideration. What, he would ask, was to become of their
colonial farmers ? What was the amount which
at the present time went to the colonial farmer ?
It was a quantity of constantly growing amount, and
had at one time increased to 15,000,0001. It was not
likely either that sugar or other colonial produce would
be long allowed to survive this.—(Hear, bear.) The
Hon. Members on the opposite side looked forward with
confidence to this side of the House for the accomplish-
ment of that measure. But if that was going to be done,
he would ask how long after it should be accomplished
did they expect to keep their other colonial markets?—
(Hear.) He had not forgotten that the Hon. Member
fur Taunton had said that they were likely to lose
their colonial markets. Well, then, he (Mr. C.) would
contend that this measure would have that effect. But
then there was another and much heavier blow to bi-
inflicted by it. If the effect of the measure
was to depreciate agricultural produce, then there
would be a limited demand for other article
in the home markets, and the results would
be the same as they were in 1838, when there was a de
ficient harvest from natural causes, and there was also a
deficient supply.—(Hear, hear.) He could not look as
this measure with that confidence with which other men
regarded it. There was another point which he con
ceived made it still more untenable and uncertain. Now,
he would like to ask the Hon. Member for Wolver-
hampton, would he go down to his constituents, and
take this law in his hand, as a perfect
code of free-trade laws for the year 1846 ?
wou!d do no such thing, because it was not a perfect
free-trade code, so long as there still remained a prott c-
tive duty upon silk, and upon lace, and upon china, and
upon metals. Why then was this done? What inter-
est was there in favour of the farmer in affording pro
tectioti to silk, and to china, and to lace, and to metals?
None in the world. Well, then, the argument must be
that those articles were not sufficiently strong of the.n-
selves to exist without protection.—(Hear, hear.) And,
surely, if they were not, how much less able was agri-
cultural produce to endure without protection ?
An Hon. Member on the other side of the House said
he could conduct a farm in Buckinghamshire with as
much profit with free trade for the -policy of the coun-
try as he could with the highest protection. Well, he
heartily wished the Hon. Member would try the experi-
ment. He would promise him he should have an opportunity
of doing so Some of his Hon. Friends, he had no doubt,
connected with Buckinghamshire, would give him one
of their best farms on lease—(Hear and laughter)—
which might be for a term as long as the Hon. Member
pleased, as long even as in Scotland, and at the lowest
rate of rent, and with only one condition—the Hoe. Mem-
ber should show them the ledger at the end of the year,
and with this lease he would undertake to say, the advice
of the lion. Gentleman to his friends at the end of the
year would be—Close your purses, for the Bucking-
ham-fields have emptied mine.—(Laughter.) It could
not be questioned for a moment, that if a man
wished for a return for his capital during the existence
of _ free trade he must 'invest it in
manu-
factures, and not in agriculture.—(Hear, hear.)
Before he' sat down he was anxious to answer a question
respecting those laws. He had no hesitation in saying,
that although he opposed the measure generally, he gave
to some parts of the measure his most willing
and cordial assent. His opposition to a part of
this:- measure was on the ground that he entertained
distrust of the policy of the Right Hon. Baronet He
confessed he did feel distrust, not alone of that, but of
other measures introduced by the Right Hon. Gent'e-
man. He (Mr. Colquhoun) did not mean to say that it
would be in the power of any Government to maintain
the agricultural interests, and at the same time to continue
any longer the present rate of production.—(Opposition
cheers.) He (Mr. C.) confessed he should like to see, on
a great question of that kind earnest and able arguments
used by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He spoke in his
absence, but he (Mr. Colquhoun) would say nothing in
his absence that he would not say if he had been pre-
sent. lie would say that the Honourable Member
for Stockport (Mr. Cobden) advocated the measure
in an able, a learned, and a talented manner, but he (Mr.
Colquhoun) did not take the same view of that
measure, great as are the authorities against him.
He would say, if they acted on the principles of the
Reform Bill, they should meet the Reform Bill
in spirit. It was quite obvious to every-
body thet they could not maintain their
institutions unless they maintained the principles
which brought about that great question.—(Hear.)
Unless they can be consistent in argument—unless they
can appeal to great inter' sts, they could not carry this
measure with success. They, in contending for mo-
derate agricultural protection, were not contending for
that which was injurious to the manufacturer of this
country.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) lie (Mr.
Colquhoun) -Mould give, for the sake of the interesrs of
the country, his earnest support to agricultural pro-
Sir Why, Sir, he heard the Honour-
able Member for Wolverhampton say, no later than the
year 1845, that the Right Honourable Baronetd was
dexterously playing on that occasion, an teat
they should take great care,- for that the
question would be surrendered.—(Hear, hear.)
It was on the ground of his feeling for these institutions
that he felt himself compelledto give his most earnest op-
position to the measure that the Prime Minister had
brought before the House. Now he felt bound to
bear hie testimony to the feeling and the erin-
ciple by which, on this question the Honourable
Member for Stockport had been actuated, and
which he had manifested during the whole course of the
discussion.—(Cheers.) He was bound to say thee the
feeling that that Hon. Member had manifested had
been a strong, an able, and an earnest feeling. Now he

felt compelled to give to this question his most earnest
end honest see;osition, but in tieing thst lie eae
determined that his exposition of the fallacies
with which the question bad been surround d
should be earnest, unequivocal, and decided,
It was well known that his feeling for several Members
of the Government, of which the Right Hon. Baronet
was at the head, had been both cordial and enduring.
And notwithstanding the difference which had
. taken place in the Right Honourable Baronet's
opinions, he
,still professed no personal antipathy,
for his feelings were those of sincere friendship and un-
diminished attachment ; and yet he felt bound its a man,
as a Member of that House, and, above all, as a member
of a commercial community, although it was a great
abrasion of his own personal feelings, to express his de-
termined, earnest, sincere, open, and avowed opposi•
tion to the measure which the Right Honourable
Baronet had submitted for their decison; and whilst that
Right Honourable Gentleman continued to be the master
spirit and the presiding genius of the Cabinet, he must
withhold from them anything like adhesion to
their policy, or support of any measure they
might bring forward. He did not mean to say
that this support was to be withheld simply on any
matter of agricultural protection, but upon those great
interests in which the whole of the welfare of the popu-
lation was involved. He could not help feeling that
this was a matter of the utmost importance, and he
deeply regretted that the Right Hon. Barons t had not
followed the example of the upright and straightforward
conduct of the Hon. Member tor Stockport. For his
own part, he should give his vote on this question,
although it was against the object of the party
with whom he was accustomed to act, with a
determinate decision, whatever the consequences euight
he, in accordance with the principles he had always pro-
fessed, although a disregard of party might; though
futilely, be laid to his charge. (The Hon. Gentleman
sat down amid loud and prolonged cheers from both
sides of the Reuse.)
Mr. WYNN said, that many of those-who had ad-
dressed the House had •lamented that the nature of this
question was such as to cause very considerable differ-
ence of opinion amongst the political leaders of
this country. Although he might differ from some
of them in his vote, and should vote for those who
held his own opinion, yet he felt himself divided
en this question, which so very much divided
the opinions of men in general. He differed in opinion
from a most r espectable meeting of his own consti-
tuents, but that was a circumstance to which many
Members of that House must necessarily be exposed.
He had had the good fortune to enjoy for fifty years
the confidence of his constituency, and if he had ever
departed from their opinion on any paticular question,
they had acknowledged that it might be a conscientious
matter. Ile was satisfied that he had performed his
duty to the country by consulting what he considered
to be its interests rather than the feelings of any parti-
cular party of the persons whom he represented. He felt
chat this question put the well-being of the agriculturist
end the manufacturer in the balance, and their
interests were so much alike that they could not look at
ore without considering the other. He had heard speak
of the benefit of leaving a question of this kind to the
individuals themselves rather than to the Government.
lie was aware that it had been the policy of the Govern-
ment to promote laws for the protection of the agricul
uurists and the manufacturers. Much as he respected
die institutions and legislation of our forefathers, there
was no point on which he differed from them so mush
as their practice of meddling with what might be easiiy
managed by the individuals concerned. When he looked
et the regulations relative to agriculture—the limit that
was set to the quantity of land to be devoted to pasture
or tillage, he was surprised ; and when he looked at
the fact, that the price of wheat was to be regulated
by the Lord Treasurer, the Lord Chancellor, or the
Lord , Chief Justice, he entirely disapproved of it.
it was said that every vessel which brought over wine
to this country would also bring over bowed staves.—
(Laughter.) It was said that for every butt of wine
brought over, ten bowed staves would acccmpany it.
Let them remember that it was not till the close
of the reign of James I. that a permanent change in
our commercial policy took place, but it was not till the
Administration of Mr. Pitt, that a more generous change
took place. About the period of the Union, he first pro-
pounded his commercial policy. Acting upon his usual
policy, he threw aside the prejudices of his pre-
decessors, and brought those principles into law.
The best answer he could give to those who questioned
the necessity of altering the present state of things was
'hat which the French merchant gave at one time to
Colby, when he inquired, " W hat can I do for
the encouragement of your trade and prosperity; ?" the
answer was, " to let them alone."—(Hear, and laughter.)
tie hoped that the Government would carry their mea-
sures out to a still greater extent. He confessed he •
should have been better pleased if they had done to.
He believed, however, that it could not be done
at present, and that so far as it could have been
with safety to the country it had been done. The
experience, the enterprise, and the capital of this couutry
would, he believed, obviate the great evils of which the
Hon. Member who last addressed the House had spoken.
It had been said that the agriculturists could not assist
their husbandmen as the manufacturer did his work-
men, by improved machinery. He could say that so
far as his experience and observation went, he
differed from that opinion. He thought he saw daily
the beneficial effects of the application of machinery to
agriculture.—(Hear, hear.) He saw large proprietors
erecting upon their estates machinery for the manu-
facture of drain tiles. These tiles were sold to the tenant
et prime cost. He hoped that this system would be
developed to a greater extent. It had also been said
that it was not to the interest of this country to depend
upon foreign countries for the supply of corn. He was
of opinion that was a fallacy. He considered that the
Americans would be as anxious to encourage our buy-
ing their corn as they were anxious to sell it. He thought
they would act as the old Dutch merchant, who, in the
time of a war between that country and France, was
asked why he exported his merchandise there, replier',
that if he were told they were in want of sulphur in the
lower regions he would send a ship-load of that com-
modity to the mouth of Acheron, provided he could obtain
a sufficient insurance to cover the damage that might be
done by the singeing of the sails. Ile had also known
many members of the Anti-Jacobin Clubs who would
never refuse to take a glass or a bottle of claret, upon
the ground that it would give assistance to the French
merchant ; and such, he conceived, would be the state
of things even if this country should be dependant
for its supply of corn upon foreign countries.
He hoped to see the policy which directed those mea-
sures carried to a greater extent, and with that view he
would give the Government every support.
Mr. G. HEATHCOTE said, in addressing himself
to the present question, he would endeavour to be as brief as
possible, He did think that an appearance of consistency was
due from public men. When his Hon. Friend on this (the Oppo-
sition) side of the House brought forward measures which, he
thought injurious to the agricultural interests he opposed them ;
and now, when the Government brought forward measures
which he considered infinitely more injurious, more extensive in
the injuries which they would inflict, he would give
them every opposition. —(Ministerial cheers.) He begged
their attention to the state of things which existed during the
last year. Their manufactories were prosperous, trade was
extending itself, and agriculture was beginning to recover itself
from the deep and deadly wounds indicted by the Right Hon.
Gentleman. Well, the Government,in this state of things, pro-
pose a series of measures, accompanied by a change of opinion
unparalleled in the record of political tergervisation. The
Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government had
turned out his Noble Friend, because he brought forward a
proposition for a fixed duty of Bs. But now he came for-
ward and proposed a fixed duty of 45., and at the end of three
years he intends to remove all protection from agriculture.
He had called this a dangerous experiment. He was justified
in so calling it, for it was an experiment that was contrary to
the experience of all countries and all time. The Right Hon.
Baronet had told us that all history and records of events should
be expunged from the annals of England previous to the period
of his own Administration. He (Mr. Heathcote) would ask
whether the three years' experience of the Right Hon. Baronet
would bear him out in proposing to the House the present
micbtmorueetptasahrhsoueeevrdneetand? He (Mr. Heatheote) was quite ready to admit that
there was great prosperity, a diminution of crime and
nation
oucngo employmenthnhtdaitythii
noo ngs e
oeaofxdf
pasmnbnodot raeuagdrl
vantages
s t
swa
capital
ahr ppee
et
cause
eal
tuini
srnete
la
of
i fvnoa
twrhitieihnst egy
wtocoaf
stuohs onuewt
rriicynng
s
where labour was necessary, and especially in the construction
of railroads in various parts of the country, and thus improv-
ing the modes and facilities of conveyance. He would main-
tain that the country was more indebted to the Hon. Member
for Sunderland (Mr. Hudson) for his activity and energy in
promoting the construction of railroads, than to any free-trade
measures of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear, and
cheers.) In the year 1839, the Hon. Member for Kendal
down and told the House that the manufacturing interests
were in a preposterous condition, and yet wheat had fallen Bs.
a quarter. There was an attempt to annihilate the interest of
protection, and the followers of the Right Hon. Baronet would
find it out when they presented themselves on the hustings at
the next election. The Hon. Member for Wiltshire had alluded
to what had taken place in the year 1815, as if that had been
the first time when the corn-laws were to be heard of. Why,
the corn-laws and protection to agriculture had been in exist-
ence for the last two hundred years, and he considered, further,
that if an error had been committed in 1815, by forcing up the
price of wheat, a still greater error would be committed in
1846 by attempting to abolish them altogether.—(Hear, hear. )
He would ask whether there was any strong cause of public
necessity to justify the present measure?—( Hear, hear.) He
meant, a strong feeling of the public with reference to this sub-
ject, similar to that which overrun England, previous to the
Reform Bill. As far as he knew, all was tolerably peaceable
and quiet. The warfare carried on was exclusively a defen-
sive warfare. When the manufacturers put on the armour of
free trade, the agriculturists assumed the whole panoply of
protection. The history of the last five or six years, with re-
spect to elections, was a complete record of defiance of protec-
tion, and of the strongest failure of the gentlemen who support
free trade.
Mr. BRIGHT—The West Riding of Yorkshire for instance ?
Mr. G. HEATH COTE resumed, that was an exception
but, besides that, the free trade gentlemen had nothing to boast
of at the elections. Why, they had failed in the very heart of
free trade. They had failed at Birmingham, at Sunderland,
and lastly, they had failed at Wigan.—(Cheers.) His Noble
Friend, the Member for London, had admitted it, and con-
firmed it. There was no doubt whatever that a large propor-
tion of the people of this country were opposed to the
principles of free trade. In the year 1841, whole consti-
tuencies, at the time of the elections, passed resolutions in
favour of protection, and now the Parliament elected under
the banner of protection, was about to decide in favour of
free trade. Looking at the whole state of the case, whether
at home or abroad, he felt satisfied that the principles of free
trade could not be adopted either with safety or with honour.
—( Hear. ) Neither could foreign nations be made to alter
their tariffs until three-fifths of the people of England had
been induced to change their opinions. He would now speak
a few words with respect to the famine that was said to
threaten the country. As regarded Ireland, he should be
happy to render that unhappy country every means
of rescuing itself from the portending distress. At a
meeting of his own constituents, which had recently
been held, he had told them at, once that if any measure for the
relief of the people of Ireland should be brought forward, he
hoped they would allow him to give it his support.—( The pro.
position was received with simultaneous cheers of assent ) If,
however, a measure were to be adopted for the relief of Ire-
land, why was it not carried into effect at once? When peo-
ple were starving, delays were cruel and dangerous. If local

difficulties or distress existed, local remeeies should be
applied, but do not, because local distress exist., disturb
the great laws which regulate a mighty empire ; with respect
to the question of famine pervading the whole country,
he thought it was contradicted at once, by the prices
that were obtained at present. There may be fa-
mine in the newspapers, and among her Majesty's Ministers,
but there was no real famine while the present prices of corn
were maintained. He would now address himself to the ques-
tion which was immediately before the House, as to the aboli-
tion of the cern-laws. The corn•laws prevented low prices,
to which there was a tendency. If all regulations with regard
to price were taken away, there would always be either too
much corn or too little. \lien there was a good harvest, fo-
reign nations would keep their surplus produce for themselves,
and this nation womel go without, and be exposed to all
the disastrous consequences. In good years, on the contrary,
there would be an enormous influx of foreign corn.—(Hear.)
The surplus which is likely to come under free trade, is ex-
tremely different from what it is under existing circumstances.
Foreign rustic ns at present have a dread at the extreme uncer-
tainty of the sliding-scale, which prevents them from growing
more corn than they can dis;iose of with a profit, but when
there was no duty at all to frighten them, there would be a
great superfluity.
An HON. Al eenteit—Say plenty.
Mr. HEATHCOTE continued—Yes, he was for plenty,
but not for a wasteful superfluity. He had had the honour,
some time since, to represent the town of Boston in Parlia-
ment, and he found that it was much cheaper to export wheat
from Hamburg to London than it was to bring it from Boston
to London. It was cheaper, because the wheat was conveyed
in foreign ships. He believed that the countries in the north
of Europe would undersell the United States in corn. The
consequence would be that corn w.,uld be purchased from
countries who will take nothing but specie in exchange, and
your manufact ores will be sent to a country who will not re-
ceive them because you will not take their corn. He did think
that when a great experiment like the present was about to be
tried, the farmers and agriculturists ought to know what they
had to expect. He would now read to the House some extracts
from tables of the prices of foreign corn which he had prepared
about four years ago. From the years 1815 to 1846, in Dant-
zit; c, rn, during twenty-five years, the average appears to be
285. per quarter, and during the last seven years of that
eriod it was 25s per quarter. During a period of seven con-
secutive years in Denmark, the price of corn averaged only
185. per quarter. Now, it might be said that this was because
Denmark was a s rail country, and that low prices would be ob-
tained when there was an abundance. To this he would reply that
the price of Denmark was the vice of all the North. He would
read the prices for the same average of years in different parts.
In Prussia, it was 165.; in Cologne, 165.; in Brandenburg, 175.;
in Siberia and Pomerania, 175.; in Dantzic, 225.; at St.
Petersburgh, 225.; and at Riga, 20s. per quarter. He would
ask what would be the effect of the introduction of foreign
corn at these prices ? It had been said that the corn-laws of
this country were no protection to prices, but he found that
while the price of corn at Dantzic rose only Bs., the price
during the same year in Eng'anel was 575. per quarter. They
had been told, over and over again, that the corn-laws were
of no use. He would refer to the year 1822, during which
period great distress existed in the country. The price
of wheat then was 445. ; in Denmark at the same
time, it was only 18s. In 1835, vile n great distress
was also prevalent, the price in England was 395. ; in Den-
mark at 19s. ; so that if the corn-laws had not then been in
existence, the country would have been entirely overrun. He
would, in conclusion, beg of those who took upon themselves
the responsibility of the present measure, also to take upon
themselves the responsibility of its consequences. If he should
succeed in throwing out this Bill, he should think he had
achieved something to be proud of. If, on the other hand, he
should fail, he should feel satisfied that he had done all that
laid in his power in opposing the meaure, to accord with the
wishes of his constituents and the best interests of the country.
Mr. W. MARTIN was of opinion that the time had now
arrived when the interests of the country required that a change
should be made in the corn-laws, and that was the only
justification he could give for abandoning protection.
What regulated the price of corn was the price of the last
bushel which they were compelled to import from abroad. He
believed that free trade would not materially reduce the price
of corn. He did not believe that they would see, on an ave-
rage of ten }ears, the price of wheat imported from abroad at
less than 50s. per quarter. It might be said that improve-
ments would come by degrees, but he would remind the House
how slowly improvements came upon agriculture. , It was not
so with manufactures, as improvements were continually taking
place in them. But in agriculture, if an experiment were
tried, it required a great length of time to test its efficacy.
This was an additional argument in favour of the Government
proposition. Many persons, however, expected that we should
be inundated with grain from the United States. Why, the
price of wheat in New York, for some years together, was
higher than it was in London. The lowest price he had ever
heard of in the United States was in Michigan, where
he understood that it had been grown as low as 255. a quarter,
and yet it was a notorious fact, that at the time that was the
price of corn in Michigan the price in New York was as high
as in London. On these grounds. he felt little alarm as to the
probable influx of corn to this country from the United States.
He thought it was to our interest to place our trade and com-
merce on a healthy footing, whether the United States were
disposed to follow our example or not. He believed, however,
that other nations would be quite ready to follow in our foot-
steps. He believed that, in the step they were taking, they
were laying the foundation of lasting prosperity for their
children.
Several Hon. Members rose, but there were loud calls for
Mr. T. BARING, who said he much regretted that he was
compelled to act in opposition to those whom he had hitherto
followed, and whose patriotism and stern sense of duty he had
always admired. He believed that the present measure was
unwise and inconsistent. The arguments upon which the
Right Hon. Gentleman rested his change of opinion was to
him (Mr. Baring) quite inconclusive.—(Cheers.) Such a
measure as the present required time for full and extensive con.
sideration. If some measure, some temporary measure, were
required for the alleviation of distress, that was no reason for
the introduction of such a measure as that which was before the
House, If the last change in the tariff had been successful,
that was an argument in favour of a gradual change, and against
such a sweeping measure as the present. He did not
believe that the prosperity of the last three years
had depended solely on the changes in the tariff.
It appeared to him that the prosperity of the country had
arisen from the activity of trade, and from the advantageous
employment of labour, It was important for him to state the
relative connexion between the price of food and the rate of
wages. He believed that wages might be high and the prit e
of food low, or that the price of food might be high, and the
rate of wages low. There was a large remuneration given for
labour in America, and yet food was cheap there.—( Hear,
hear.) They had a very low rate of remuneration for
labour in Poland, and provisions were not cheap there.
That fact proved to him that there was no connexion between
the price of food and the price of labour.—(Hear, hear.) If
the demand for labour decreased with an increasing population,
the result would be that the wages must be regulated accord
ing to the price of food, and the wages would therefore be
reduced to that sum of money on which a man could exist.
He could not, therefore, see anything in these three years of
prosperity, gratifying as they might be—anything to justify a
very grand experiment, which would shake the resources of the
whole agricultural country ; it would open a future of which
none could see the result.. No one viewed the calamities that
might happen to Ireland with more regret than he did, and
he knew that the reports of famine and disease in that country
had given great dissatisfaction. If that report was founded on
truth, it would cause an influx of provisions there, and there-
fore they need not fear for Ireland. A special case requires a
special remedy.—( Hear, hear.) He had undoubtedly heard that
the poor Irishman lived solely on his crop of potatoes, and if
that failed, he had no means of existence. In a case like that
he would look to the land cultivators around him for relief ;
and by this measure the prosperity of those persons who could
afford him relief would be reduced. He regretted to hear the
statement of the Secretary for the Home Department—it struck
him both with surprise and sorrow.—( Hear.) If ever there
was a truly patriotic Minister, he believed that no man was more
so than the Right Hon. Baronet, and he would feel it his
duty to do all in his power for Ireland. With regard to the
scarcity in England, it did not seem to call for a great change
in the corn-laws. When the Hon. Member for the City of
London moved for a return of all the corn in the ports of this
nation, there appeared to have been about 430,000 quarters.
It struck him (the Hon. Member for London) that this was a
very imperfect supply for this country. but there was at that
time in the country, a sufficient stock to last it for two or
three months. That fact proved to him (Mr. Baring)
that, although the stock of bonded corn might
be small, yet the real supply rested on the stacks and
granaries that were in the country. The 430,000 quarters
that were then in the ports were now increased to a million
quarters, arid that showed that the first cry of alarm drew
ample supplies. to this country. It had been proved to him
that the potato crop had failed, hut he found that the supply of
barley and oats had been sufficiently plentiful. They knew that
the sliding-scale had failed, because sufficient food could not be
introduced. Speculators saw that no advantage could be
taken of the sliding-male, and therefore they had to take ad-
vantage of the sliding-scale of Ministerial nerves.—(lm-
mense cheering.) With regard to the alleged statement
of the exportation of foreign corn into other countries.
What was the case with regard to Holland and Belgium ?
About 100,000 quarters were sent there, and an ample supply
was still at the disposal of the country. They had been told
last year that there would not be a sound potato by Christmas.
A small quantity had been sent to Holland and Belgium, and
an ample supply could be commanded. The Hon. Baronet at
the head of the Government had told them that in Liverpool
and other places the price of rice had risen, but a reaction had
now taken place, and the price of rice had fallen
25 and even 30 per cent. The public press, or at least that
portion of it that opposed the corn-laws, spoke of the starva-
tion and distress that existed, as conneeed with them, as it
was their wish to cause a feeling against them—( Hear, hear)
—and even the Noble Lord who represented the City of Lon-
don had adopted that principle for a short time. From the
public press, down to a private letter, they were met with the
cries of want and distress, but he believed that the greatest
want which existed in the country, and which threatened the
most danger, was the want of a Ministry—(Loud cheers from
the Treasury side of the House)—and the greatest scarcity was
the scarcity of statesmen who could properly govern the affairs
of the country—(Continued cheering)—and he was not alone
in that opinion. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
fwa
chteunr hn egintroduced
districts
requiredmeasure,
these th that the
hrc aet
pt to him, that serious apprehensions
baenenddeuend in
uterest. He said, in answer to a
as to to the sad resufts which would follow in
setwtihoaeitrrineegweohsfientertainednht Governmenththhe scat
d landed
those districts in consequence of the deficient harvest, and it
was therefore most advisable to bring in the present measure.
The Right Hon. Baronet also referred to a document which
r made a great impression uponh s mind,
and he (Mr. Baring)
must confess that had a similar effect upon his own mind.
" That document stated that it was probable that we should be
visited by the same calamities as this county laboured under
in 1839. The Right Hon. Baronet read one extract from that
document, which supported his present views, but he declined
that portion to which he (Mr. Baring) would now take the
liberty of calling the attention of the House.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) The document to which he referred was a circular
published by Messrs. Gibson, Ord and Co., eminent merchants
of Manchester, on the 22d of January last. They stated, ill
one of the earagraphs of that document, that although great
anxiety and alarm very justly existed in the country with re-
gard to the failure of the potato crop, yet there were not grounds
for the present very serious excitement. They also stated it
to be their candid opinion that it would be a most injudicious
plan to open the ports to alleviate apprehended famine—( Mi-
nisterial checrs)—because such a step would produce the
greatest disarrangement in the home and foreign markets.—
Such a step, they stated, would be so extrav igant and so wild,
that they would certainly protest against it.--( Hear, hear.
Their goods, they said, would he rendered unsaleable, and the
trade of the country would, for a time, be rendered com-
pletely stagnant. The cause of alarm, they believed, had been
most grossly exaggerated, and it was impossible that the de-
ficiency could be so great as anticipated. The surplus corn
that had lain over for the previous years would, in their opi-
nion, nearly make up ter the deficiency.—( Hear, hear.) The
Minister had several courses, they said, open to him to alle-
viate the impending distress ; but in their solemn opinion they
believed that the opening of the ports would unquestionably be
so sudden and unexpected a transition, as to some extent to
embarrass the Government of the country.—(Ministerial
rheers.) Those Gentlemen were not in favour of the corn
laws, but they said that it was their belief that the time had
arrived when a change should be merle in the laws aff 'cting
the importation of foreign corn.—(Loud Opposition cheers,
and much laughter.) They said that the apprehension of the

present scarcity hail prepared the minds of all men for it.—
( Cheers and laughter.) They believed that p-ovision should
be made to the utmost possible extent for the apprehended
calamity.—Continued Opposition cheers and laughter. ) They
said, however, that they did not advocate a total and imme-
diate repeal of the corn-laws, but they were afraid that the
existing alarm in the mindl of men might make the present a
proper time for a great reform in those laws. —( Cheers.) They
stated, however, that it would be unjust to the landed interest
to create such a revolution in the agricultural policy of the
Government as might paralyse the energies and in-
dustry of the country. They recommended that a
moderate fixed duty should be imposed in the
first instance, with a progression to an enitre abolition of all
duties.—(Loud laughter and cheers from the Opposition side
of the House.) Those patties, therefore, who, be it remem-
bered, were enemies to the present corn-laws, recommended
not immediate repeal, but a fixed duty. They also stated that
the present alarm about the failure of the late harvests had been
much exaggerated, and further, they did not believe that
the present circumstances of the country called for such a
step as the opening of the ports by her Majesty's
Government. He (Mr. flaring) referred to the document
from which he had read these extracts, because the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government had given the stamp
of his approbation to it by reading extracts from it when he
introduced the present measure. That document showed that
the Right Hon. Baronet would not have been justified in
opening the ports, a course which he had proposed to his col-
leagues in the Cabinet, but which step they, of course,
deprecated. ( Hear, hear.) For his (Mr. Baring's)
own part, he would say, that in his humble
opinion it would have been most itsjudicious to have opened
the ports at that period. This country would, in such an
event, have exposed itself to the mercies of foreign powers; it
would have increased the prosperity of other countries by
putting an end to its own.—( Hear, hear.). Considering the ,
recent relaxation in the tariff, he- confessed-that he did not see
how the Right Honourable Baronet was justified
in bringing forward the present proposal ; which was
nothing less than a most sudden and sweeping mea-
sure.—(Hear, hear.) Perhaps he might be allowed to say a
word or two upon the general measure, particularly in reference
to the strong opinion which had been formerly expressed by the
Right Hon. Baronet, as to the importance of a great reserve in
the revenue and. expenditure. It seemed to him
(Mr. Baring), although he did not pretend to any
accuracy with respect to the finances of the country,
that when the Right Hon. Baronet proposed an
augmentation in the expenditure on the charges of the Con-
solidated Fund—being more than half a million—he should re-
collect that a great loss wonld arise to the revenue by the abo-
lition of the duties on the importation of foreign corn,which mast
necessarily be made up by the imposition of new taxes, for he
could not expect that the loss would be made up by
the duties to be received on the anticipated increase
of foreign goods hereafter to be imported into this country in
consequence of the repeal o; the corn-laws. He was afraid he
had trespassed too long upon the attention of the House—
( Cheers)—but he was anxious to say that he was not one of
those who thought that protection ought to be indiscriminately
applied to all articles; he conceived that if protection
was claimed for any article of industry, a case
should be made out to justify its protection. Each
interest in his opinion should be treated according to its
peculiar circumstances. He believed that in every step the
Legislature, in dealing with subjects of this sort, should adopt
the principle which had been long ago laid down by Dr. Adam
Smith, and whit h doctrine had been quoted by the Noble Lord
the Member for the City of London at some leneth.
The doctrine to which he (Mr. Baring) alluded,
was that Government, in legislating in matters of trade,
should take care that the abolition of protective duties be made
slowly and by gradations. As regarded the corn-law of 1815,
he (Mr. Baring) was not one who looked to the present as a
final measure—he could not believe in finality in any matters
of legislation.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Fut still he
thought that there was an understanding that that law had
worked well, and that it would not be changed by its own
authors.—( Hear, hear.) He would not go into the workings
of that law, but he would only say that the Government, in
questions of this sort, should, in the words used by the Right
Honourable Baronet at the head of the Government
the other night, " act most cautiously and delibe-
rately." He hoped, too, that the present measure
of the Government would ultimately prove beneficial to this
country, but he really could not see why Government should
put a check to the confidence of those concerned in the culti-
vation of the land. It was impossible to say what would be
the result of the present measure. There was nobody to in-
form the House what would be the amount of foreign corn
that would be imported into this country under the proposed
measure, and it was also impossible for anybody to protect the
price of corn.—(Hear, hear.) In his humble opinion great
injury would arise from the sudden change ; it would
affect a great interest.—( Hear, hear.) It would shock the
confidence of the agriculturists, and destroy stability in every-
thing connected with the land.—( Hear, hear.) Now, what
were the advantages proposed by this measure ? Some said
that it would cheapen the price of bread ; and if it would not,
why bring it forward ?—( Hear, hear.) He believed that
every article of consumption was by increase of consumption
made cheaper. This had been.the case with respect to the
articles of cotton, coffee, tea, and tobacco. The Hon. Baronet
had shown himself that the price of wheat had cheapened pro-
portionably with the increase of consumption and population.
Such, he could show by a document which he then held in
his hand, had been the effect in the Western States of Ame-
rica, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War
also showed that a similar result had followed in Ohio. But
statements on this head were always very uncertain. He,
however, held a document in his hind which was generally
believed to be correct, although, for his own part,
he did not attach much importance to it That
document stated that while the population of that country was
690,000 in 1844, the amount of corn consumed was 3,280,000
quarters; and the amount consumed in 1845 was 6,000,00(1
quarters, whilst the population was 7,000,000. So that the
tendency in those countries of an increase in the population
was to produce an increased consumption of corn. The forma-
tion of railroads, however, would almost answer the purpose of
the present measure, because those means of transit would con-
siderably decrease the price of corn. If we depended on
foreign supplies of corn, it seemed to him that we should be
liable to a great rise in the price. They would find that cot ton
was subject to great fluctuation in price without the opera-
tion of flee trade. In 1836 the price of cotton at Liverpool
was 9d., and at the end of March it had risen to l lid., and
in the December of that year it was 10Ad. In the commence-
ment of 1834 it was OA., and at the close of that year it was
Bd. The whole of those fluctuations showed that the varia
tions were equivalent to 70 per cent. It was sometimes said
that the rate of freight was quite sufficient to serve as a
guarantee for the protection of corn. Now, what was the
case with regard to freight? Freight might be taken at 9s,
from Odessa, 2s. from Hamburgh, 4s. from the Baltic, and tie.
from New York to Liverpool, with the addition of two or three
shillings to London. It was Bs. from New Orleans. and a
further charge of 2s. upon the home producer. From Norfolk
the freight was Is. 6c1., and Boston 95., and the effect was
that corn shipped at Boston would have to pay the same
freight as that shipped from Hamburgh. He had to apologise
to the House for occupying their attention so long—(Cheers)
—but he would solicit the indulgence of the House whilst he
stated, that in his opinion there was a strong feeling on the
part of many connected with trade that a moderate duty was
far preferable to a total abolition of the corn-laws.—( Cheers. )
It was not, however, for him to enter into the truth of such
a position, but he must say that their opinions were deserving
of attention at the present moment.—(Hear, hear.) If
the Government ever intended making a satisfactory
settlement of this matter, now was the time for
doing so. He should certainly see to tranquillity
in the country, but he had no des:re to see the tranquillity of
content.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) This measure would
produce a great shock in the country, and the people could have
no confidence in those who took part in public affairs. Na-
tional blessings were dearly bought at such a lamentable cost
as that offered by the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Hear, hear. )
Had it been a satisfactory measure he would have had much
pleasure in tendering to the Government his cordial support.
It was not a measure calculated to give that satisfaction to the
country which ought to be looked for in a measure proposed by
the Prime Minister of the Crown. Was it a wise, a politic, or
a statesmanlike thing to send a great interest, like the landed
interest, from that House without any confidence in any Go-
vernment
?—( Hear, hear.) Who could doubt that their interest
would, by the proposed measure, be seriously injured and their
very existence jeopardised.—(Hear, hear.) Humble as he
was, he would venture to say, that while he was in favour of all
fair concessions for the freedom of trade, he still thought it both
necessary and politic to maintain a moderate protection to agri-
culture.—(Cheers.)
Lord MO RPETH said, if the question had been a less im-
portant one he would have hesitated, at so short a period after
having resumed his seat in that House, from presenting him-
self again to their notice, especially when he rose to take that
view of the question which, in his judgment, had received
nearly all the illustration of which it is capable—everything
which the most consummate ability, the most industrious re-
search, the greatest amount of official authority, and a pro-
tracted discussion could possibly bring to elucidate the
subject. The question had also received many very illustrious
additions. The Hon. Member who had just sat down he knew
before to be a friend to free trade in the abstract.—
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But he thought, after his speech
of to-night, it would be difficult to discover if, either in
abstract, or in detail, he was favouraby disposed to a general
relaxation of restrictive duties. He has not told us how far he
would go, or where he would stop. He (Lord Morpeth)
thought that a great interest which had been brought forward
in the debate, like the agricultural interest of the country, if
there was one course more than another which be deprecated,
it was that of being subjected to this constant changing,
gradual system of experiments.—( Hear, bear.) The Hon.
Member has told us that the great want in the preceding
autumn was the want of a Minister. Now I think, said the
Noble Lord, that want is most sensibly felt by that great and
important party of which the Hon. Member is so distinguished
an ornament. They have contested every vacant seat in the
country, but even still they seemed to be lament-
ably deficient of a leader and a head.—( No, no, and hear,
hear.) If such is not the case, we shall shortly see, when
they have displayed their full force and numbers, and made the
echo of their own opinions responded to in the country, we
shall then see a successful, stable Government formed—( Hear)—
upon the principles of undiminished protection to agriculture.
The Hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Baring) had stated,
that the present would be a favourable time to effect a com-
promise on this subject. Ido not know whether he comes
down here as the bearer of any overtures upon the principles of
compromise. I can tell the Hon. Member that the opinion,
both in the country and in this House is, that the time for a
compromise is gone by.—( Hear, hear.) A compromise was
once offered—( Hear, hear)—by the party with whose leader
I have the proud satisfaction of acting. The Hon. Member
must not forget, that at that period the party who now hail
him as their honourable ally, rejected all notion of compromise.
I feel that the best excuse I can have for offering myself to
the attention of the House upon this long discussed and wide
stretching question, which has, as I have already stated, re-
ceived nearly all the illustration it is capable of, would be to
confine my observations to what is special and peculiar in my
own opportunities that I have had, and the position which I
hold with respect to it. Since I last had the honour of ad-
dressing this House I have been a traveller on the Noah
American Continent. I have for two years lived in agricul-
tural districts in that country, and I have lost and re-
gained the representation of the West Riding of Yorkshire.
And I consider that the effect of my return as a member
for this House, from so large and populous a district as the
West Riding of Yorkshire—as one of the most significant and
signal verdicts which could be given—which has been submitted
to the count ry in the sessions of 1846. But there is only one cir-
cumstance which seems to me to require remark with reference
to the opinion of the large body of constituents whom I have the
honour to represent. The question which has been brought
before them—the projects of the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of her Majesty's Government—concerns, as we all know,
an infinite variety of ae tides, besides corn and other
provisions.—( Hear, hear.) It meddles almost as much
with manufactures as with agriculture.—(No, no, and heat. )
Hon. Members say " No, no ;" I maintain that it meddles as
much with many leading branches of manufactures as it does
with agriculture. —(No, no.) Well, it meddles as much as it
possibly could.—( Hear, hear.) The abolition of protection in
one instance is the same, but in another unlike. The repeal of
the duties on manufacture is immediate, and upon corn is gra-
dual.—( Hear, hear.) 1 was proceeding to say that the con-
stituents, by whose choice, I have the honour to represent, corn-
prise amongst them the largest woollen, worsted, and steel ma-
nufacturers in the country. It comprises, also, the largest
linen manufacturers in the kingdom. It has also
large iron and considerable cotton manufacturers. Now, as I