The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-19 00:00:00

man in the colony a vote, and of establishing a representative
assembly, which, in conjunction with the Governor, was to
carry on the government. The Hon. Member further as-
serted that settlers could not obtain land, but his fear had no
foundation, except in his imagination, as they
could always buy it from the company. But, after all,
the proposal was not to grant any exclusive rights or despo-
tic powers. The Hon. Member's arguments might be good
at a future day for destroying the power of the Hudson's Bay
Company, as similar arguments might be used against the
East India Company, bat they had nothing to do with the
immediate subject. The point was this :—The Crown, see-
ing no other chance of colonizing Vancouver's Island, made
a grant of it to the Hudson's Bay Company, revocable at the
end of eleven years. He did not wish at that moment to
enter at any length into the merits of the Hudson's Bay
Company, but he must say he relied much on the opinion of
Lord Elgin, who said that all the inquiries he had made had
turned out highly favourable to the company, and that he
believed they ruled the vast and inhospitable regions entrusted
to them in a highly creditable manner. If the House did not
wish to let Vancouver's Island fail into the hands of the
Americans, he trusted they would negative the amendment
of the Hon. Member for Montrose.
Mr. GOULBURN said that first the Hon. Member for
Liskeard had complained of a speech having been made with-
out a motion, and now the Noble Lord complained of the
Hon. Member for Montrose for making a motion.
Mr. BULLER explained.
Mr GOULBURN said that he objected to the grant as im-
provident, because the company was not in a condition to
form a colony, a fact which he was justified in believing from
their past conduct. The Noble Lord had urged that if we
did not take possession of the island, the Americans would
settle there. Could there be a more important reason for
taking every care that the island was settled properly.
—( Hear. hear.) We should take possession of it in the name
of the Queen of England, and then we might defy any
attempts from the United States. (Hear, hear.) As to
the company's privileges standing in the way, he would re-
mind the Noble Lord that, in granting these privileges, Lord
Glenelg had expressly stipulated that whenever the British
Government settled a colony within their limits the privi-
leges of the company were to cease. It was quite clear that
by the grant now proposed this useful caution would be
abrogated, and the company would obtain entire control.
He was opposed to leaving this valuable island in the hands
of those who, without imputing any evil disposition to them,
he must say had not the capacity or the interest to effect a
settlement advantageous to this country. He therefore cor-
dially hoped that the subject would be considered by the Go-
vernment.
Mr. DUNCAN said that he had discovered in the Com-
mittee of which he had been a Member, that no less than
600,0001. had been charged to the country for the repurchase
of land, for which not a farthing had been paid. He hoped
that the Government would carefully consider the matter
before they made a grant which might be the means of en-
tailing a very considerable expense upon the taxes of the
country.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For Mr. Hume's motion •.• 58
Against it
Majority
On our re-admission to the gallery, we found
Colonel SIBTHORP addressing the House, and after al-
luding to the number of hours for which the House had been
sitting that day, he asked the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government whether it was his intention at that period of
the night (half-past 11 o'clock) to force on the third reading
of the Corrupt Practices Bill ? Many Hon. Gentlemen had
left the House under the impression that that measure would
not come on to-night.
Lord J. RUSSELL intended to ask the House to proceed
to the third reading of the Corrupt Practices Bill that night.
If it should be urged, and the House should consider that
the hour was too late, then he should propose that the House
should take the third reading at 12 o'clock to-morrow (this
day.)—(Oh, oh.)
Colonel SIBTHORP felt that he should be forgetting what
he owed to his own character if he assented to such a con-
temptible answer as that.—(Loud laughter.)
MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.
The House then went into Committee of Supply.
A vote of 90,0004 was agreed to, to complete the vote for
the advancement of education in Ireland.
Also a vote of 4,0001. to complete the vote for the expenses
of the School of Design and Provincial Schools.
Mr. LABOUCHERE remarking, in answer to a question
from Mr. Hume, that he should be glad when the time ar-
rived at which theee valuable institutions could be entirely
self-supporting; but that it was not yet come.
The next vote proposed was of 2,0061. for salaries and al-
lowances granted to certain professors in the universities of
Oxford and Cambridge.
Mr. OSBORNE would divide against this vote. The
Committee on the Miscellaneous Expenditure stated that
however much the education of the poor ought to be a subject
of national consideration, they entertained very serious
doubts as to the principle of grants of public money for the
purpose of education at the universities.—(Hear.) It was
not fair to call upon the country to pay this sum, when these
universities did not admit all parties to their benefits.—
(Hear, hear.) A deputation had been to the Government
which stated that certain classes at the universities, classes
for which the Committee was now asked to make this grant,
were almost wholly deserted.
Sir R. INGLIS supported the vote, and reminded the
Committee that similar grants were made for the University
of London, which was opento all sects; that 30,0001. were
granted to the Roman Catholics, and four or five times as
much as these universities, was granted to a dissenting insti-
tution at Belfast.
Lord J. RUSSELL, though he should be sorry to reduce
the remuneration granted to these professors, and which they
were led to understand they would retain, thought it would
be of advantage if some mode could be devised to render
these professors more useful. Though the statutes of the
universities prohibited dissenters from taking degrees, dis-
senters and Roman Catholics were permitted to be educated
at the University of Cambridge. He thought the objection
to altering the constitution of the universities might be re-
moved, and the advantage sought for by dissenters and
Roman Catholics, educated at Cambridge, obtained is
respect to degrees, if certificates of proficiency were given
by the university, which should entitle the parties to degrees
at the University of London. With regard to Oxford he
should say nothing at present.
After a few words from Mr. BUNBURY, in support of
the vote,
Mr. W. F. FOX reminded the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Inglis)
that time had changed the constitution of the universities.
They were originally national ; but now they were exclusive
to the middle and lower classes, and exclusive also on reli-
gious grounds. As an encouragement to literature the vote
was useless while it was for the benefit of a class of persons
who did not require it.
Mr. GOULBURN objected to the amendment. The Hon.
and Gallant Member who proposed it was in error when he
said the universities of Oxford and Cambridge conferred no
advantage upon the poorer classes of this country. The aris-
tocracy, it was true, were educated at those universities, but
how many persons were there of humble origin wl o obtained
degrees there, and afterwards became distinguished at the bar
and other pursuits.
Mr. HUME also complained of the exclusion of the poor
and different classes of religionists from the benefits which
the universities conferred.
Mr. 11. DRUMMOND thought all sects ought to partici-
pate in the advantages conferred by the establishment of the
professorships. It was said that they represented in that
House the aristocracy of mind, but they should also remem-
ber they represented the democracy of poverty.
Mr. GLADSTONE entirely sympathised in the observa-
tions made by the Hon. Member for Montrose. But he must
distinctly say that the poor were not excluded from the uni-
versities, although he deeply regrette d that their reception
at them was not so general as he fervently hoped it would
soon be.
Colonel THOMPSON could not allow this matter to pass
without saying that he had strong doubts whether the dis-
senters would agree to such a compromise as had been pro-
posed by the Noble Lord.—(Hear. hear.) Speaking sin-
cerely, he did not see why they should be content to labour
under the inferiority and inconvenience of being obliged to
keep their terms in one university and take their degrees at
another. There must surely be some potent reason why
they were incompetent to take their degrees at the univer-
sity where they had kept their terms, and why the univer-
sity should be ashamed of them ; and he wished to know
what it was. As a university man lie could not help knoW•
ing the difficulty raised with respect to the admission of Dis-
senters. It was said they could not join in the religious
ordinances of the dominant sect in the existing colleges Of
the universities; but there was one ready way to get over
that difficulty, by the Dissenters establishing a college for
themselves.
Mr. ANSTEY observed, that the Dissenters and Noncon-
formists, including Roman Catholics, had a university open
to them at present in the University of London.
Mr. EWART thought it a great evil that the tutorial
should supersede the professional system in the universities.
After a few words from Mr. OSBORNE,
The House divided, when there appeared
For the vote •••••
Against it
Maj_o_riy —76
4,1784 for the Umversity of London.—Agreed to.
7,4804 for the Universities in Scotland.—Agreed to.
The House then resumed ; the chairman reported progress,
and obtained leave to sit again on Monday next at 12
o'clock.

CORRUPT PRATICES AT ELECTIONS BILL.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved the third reading of the above.
named Bill.

Colonel SIBTHORP rose, and was received with derisive
cheers by Members on the Ministerial benches. He said
that he had been accustomed, in passing along a turnpike
road, to hear the cackling of geese and the braying of asses,
and therefore he was not troubled by the noises by which the
wretches opposite assailed him.—(Order, Chair).
The SPEAKER informed the Hon. and Gallant Member
that he must not apply such an epithet to Members of the
House.

Colonel SIBTHORP was of opinion that " want of de-
cency was want of sense."—(Hear hear.) That the Noble
Lord should dare to propose the third reading of the Bill at
that late hour was only in accordance with his usual prae-
tice.—(Oh,) Those who cried " Oh" were looking for some-
thing from the Noble Lord, but he was not, and therefore
was not afraid to speak his mind. The Bill was a low,
dirty measure, unbecoming the Noble Lord as a man, a
Christian, and a legislator.
Mr. HOBHOUSE made several objections to the Bill,
and moved that it be read a third time that day six months.
Mr. HENLEY said it was unfair to discuss the Bill at
that late hour, but it would be still more unfair to discuss it
on the morrow. He complained of the indecent haste with
which the Bill had been forced upon the House, and urged
some objections to several of its provisions, among which he
considered the compulsory production by a professional man
of his banker's book to be a peculiar grievance. He certainly
would support the amendment.
Mr. ANSTEY wished to make an observation in a matter
personal to himself. On a late occasion he had made some
observations on the conduct of the Right Honourable Se-
cretary for Ireland with reference to the late Dublin
election. He had since ascertained that the information
heto
the therefore
provi s
iaoto
so nocfe
trheetraßc
rested ihe
on
upon which he had made those observationsill
efohuienfdoebdieacntidon was 1111-
111. His
te
' indemnity it gave to witnesses who might be examined. The
Attorney-General himself would be permanently screened
from all prosecution and penalties on account of alleged
malpractices at Horsham by consenting to
give evidence
before these commissioners. Surely this was not
seemly.
This
Bill was an infraction of the Constitution,
and lieoped
it would be declared a nullity by the judges f the land. Be-
fore ho sat down, he wished to put a question to the Mem-
ber for South Lancashire (Mr. W. Brown). He fouP d it
stated in a paper of the Manchester or free-trade school that
the Hon. Member had, on the last occasion but one when the
Bill was before the House, imputed to him something like
bribery or corrupt practices at Youghal. He did not pro..
ess to understand the language of the Manchester achoot;
but the statement seemed to be, that before or atter the elec-
tion he had distributed among certain electors of Yonghal
fat goose.—(Great laughter.) He found that in another
newspaper the Hon. Gentleman was reported to have said,
not that he gave a fat goose, but that he (Mr. Anstey) was
himself the fat goose.—(More laughter.) He wished to kno'w
which of these charges was the correct one? If it was the
latter, he had nothing to say, except that if he was a fat
goose, he might liken thglon. Member to a gosling.—("Ob,