The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-05 00:00:00

CHARITY TRUSTS REGULATION BILL.

. I The order of the day having been read for going
into Committee on this Bill,
Lord STANLEY objected to the measure being pro-
ceeded with at this late period of the session. The
Bill was one of great importance, involving new and
objectionable principles, and he did not think it was
right, in the absence of four-fifths of their Lordships,
and nearly the entire bench of Bishops, that the Go-
vernment should persevere with the measure. Besides,
he had not heard any reason whatever assigned— not
even the shadow of an excuse advanced—why the Bill
was not brought forward at the commencement of the
present session, when it was undeniable, from the pro.
posed Bill of last session, that the Government had
made up their minds upon the subject. Although it
was pretended that it was not meant to interfere by
means of this measure with charities belonging to edu-
cational purposes, yet on referring to the clauses of the
Bill he found that it proposed to deal with every charity
in the country, whatever was its amount or object. It
was proposed that the County Courts were to be the
tribunals which were to have jurisdiction over those
charities, at all events those of comparatively of small
amount ; but when he considered the fees chargeable by
those tribunals, he thought that the consigning those
charities to the jurisdiction of such tribunals would be an
injustice. From returns of the amount of fees charged
by them, he found that in the Home Circuit in the course
of one year, while the plaints made before the legal
tribunals as regarded charities, involved charities: to
the amount of 22,0001, of which 18,0001. was decided
by those courts, out of that 18,0001. no less a sum than
4,009/. was paid in the shape of fees. And what made
the case worse, from the decision of those courts there
was no appeal ; and it was not right to put it in the
power of one individual in a parish to put charities
under the control of those courts, thereby involving
them in large sums of expenses. It was true, that
notice was given of the scheme proposed to be adopted
with any particular charity, and there was a provision
inserted in the Bill for giving. an,. opportunity hear-
sfelr,.
gultELLlP'l76llBrnot WaZt ;i-til'attention, it was sanc-
tioned by the judge, carried into effect, and the decision
being final and conclusive, no appeal could be taken from
it. Considering, therefore, the importance of the mea-
sure, and the magnitude of the interests it affected, he
did not think that on the 4th of August he was asking
too much when he requested that the further considera-
tion of the measure should be postponed until next ses-
sion. He appealed to the House whether, in the present
state of public business, and considering the mass of
business still before the House of Commons—so large
that they were compelled to sit from twelve o'clock in
the day until two and three o'clock the following morn-
ing to get through it—it would be right or proper to pass
a measure through Committee on August 4, have it read
a third time, and sent down to the House of Commons, in
order to increase the difficulties with which that House
was already beset in getting through the large amount
of business before it.—(Hear, hear.) He admitted that
the principle of the measure was a valuable one, but at
the present period of the session it could not receive that
consideration which it deserved. And in all the cir-
cumstances of the case, he considered himself justified
in moving, as an amendment, that the House go into
Committee on the Bill that day three months.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, as the Noble Lord
did not object to the principle of the measure, and as that
principle had been affirmed on the second reading of the
measure, he saw no good grouuda for preventing the
House going into Committee upon it. It was true the
Bill contained some clauses which were not of press-
ing importance at the present time, but it con-
tained others which it was of the greatest im-
portance to the public should become law at as early
a period as possible. The most prominent points of
the measure had for a long period been under the consi-
deration, not only of the Government, but of Parliament,
and while he did not think that in one Bill all the plans
and objects which the various charities of the country
had in view could be united, yet the present measure was
so framed as to include those which it was conceived were
most in want of the protection of such a measure, and
to whose efficiency such a measure would tend. The
Noble Lord had gone over several clauses of the Bill,
but he had not taken:noticc of the evils which the mea-
sure was intended to remedy. As regarded large
charities, a remedy could be found for any abuses that
might arise in regard to them in the Court of Chancery,
but there were ethers of less magnitude, in regard to
which it was not considered worth the while to be at
the expense of going to the Court of Chancery to have
these abuses remedied, and, in consequence. these were
allowed to remain, and the charities afterwards became
useless. Now, he confessed, he found great diffi-
culty in finding a tribunal fitted for the purpose of in-
vestigating into the abuses of these, and applying a
remedy; but after due consideration he found that a
local tribunal would best suit the purpose, and the
County Courts at once presented themselves as the most
applicable to it. The Noble Lord had complained of
the expense of them, and no doubt it was considerable ;
but as these courts had not been long established, and it
was impossible to know what the expenses of them
would be until they had been some time in operation,
that complaint, in regard to the expense, could be re-
moved. These courts had been most successful. The
fees recived by them had amounted to a large sum,
double the amount of the salaries, in fact, allowed to
the judges of them; and as the salaries of those judges
were about to be fixed at a certain amount, an im-
important opportunity would be afforded of reducing
those fees by one-halt the amount, so that the expense
attending procedure before these courts would be con-
siderably less. In regard, then, to those charities,
should the trustees who had the management of
them die, there were no means at present of appointing
new ones except by application to the Court of Chancery ;
and the consequence was, that out of the 48,000 chari-
ties in the country, a considerable number had no trustee
at all, and were consequently inoperative. The passing
of the present measure was therefore of the greatest im-
portance to those charities themselves—and as the prin-
ciple of it was not objected to, he would then state what
alterations he proposed in several of its clauses. The
clause which seemed to create the greatest alarm was
that which, in consequence of the difficulties in the way
of instituting efficient local investigation, gave the power
of removing them to London, and of bringing up the
witnesses here ; but be could assure their Lordships
that then nobody need be alarmed as to the abuse of
that power, if it were granted, and if any better mode
of attaining the object in view could be devised, he
would be happy to give it his support. If their
Lordships went into Committee, he would pro-
pose some amendments which would remove many
of the objections which had been made to the measure,
and he trusted that the Noble Lord, instead of persisting
in his motion, would allow the Bill to go into Committee,
and if it was not such as to meet his views, take the
sense of their Lordships upon it at some future stage.
At present, if it was. rejected, it would be in the dark.
The question was, whether the public should be punished
because he had not sooner brought in the Bill. Their
Lordships were asked to decide, not whether he might
have brought it in sooner, but whether the Bill, as it
now stood, was one which would secure the object in
view. Besides, when it was objected that there had not
been sufficient time for its consideration, he would re-
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