The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-28 00:00:00

their support to the two Conservative candidates. Alder-
Man Darley then sent for Farrel, the chief constable of the
Duldin police, and told him that Mr West and Sir George
Rich were to he supported. .end that Farrel was to take
means of effectually supporting them. That was the Go-
vernment to which were to be intrusted the provisions of
this Act. He called on the House to remember that.
There was no case made out for confidence ; and if so,
there certainly was none in principle. Confidence indeed !
Why Lord Anglesea himself had said, before he was I,,td-
Lieutenant, that be would never issue proclamations of
this kind; yet he bad not been Lord. Lieutenant three
days before be issued one. Na confidence ought to be

placed in any man.
Mr. STANLEY was not prepared at this moment to
answer the observations of the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Dublin with respect to the conversations with Sir
Wm. Gossett ; but he should like to ask whether there
had not been any subsequent documents that explained
the account given of the conversation by Alderman Dar-
ley, and that showed the effect of that conversation with
Sir Wm. Gossett had been misrepresented by Alderman
D irlq? He did not mean to cast any imputation on
Alderman Darley, than whom there could not be a more
honour ible man ; hut he believed that there was evidence
to show that the Alderman had been mistaken. What-
ever might have been the statement thus erroneously
made, he knew perfectly w. II what were the feelings of
the Government on the occasion in question. The Go-

vernm-nt hod no predilection whatever with respect to
the candidates. Nothing was more likely, or more pro-

Kahle, than that Alderman Darley should have gone on
the p rt of Mr. West, who was most unexpectedly a can•
dilate, and should have asked what was meant to be
done, and then if that were so, the Honourable and
Leirn,cl Member for Dtr.lin well knew that the per-
kons employed under the Government in Dublin
would almost to a man prefer to vote of their own
accord for Mr. West and Sir G. Rich, re.ther than
for the Hon. and Learned Mernher.—(Hear.) That
might have been stated to A'derman Da.ley, who mie.ht
easily have mistaken that antement of the probability cf
their votes being given to these two candidates for a pro-
mise that Government would use their influence to that
effect. He thought that Sir William Gossett had so ex-
this matter afterwards. So that if Aiderman D,r•
ley was told that the Government would not interfere, he
might, in all probability, have said, " You may go on
safely, for you are sure to have all the Government votes."
Mr. SHAW said that he did not think the explan,tion
offered by the Right Hon. Gentleman was sitisfactmy. He
must sa} that a Member of the Governmcnt ought not to
have committed the Government unless he knew their inten-
tion ; nor ought the Government to have said what would
be done, unless they perfectly well knew the sentiments of

those who were under them.
The House then divided—
For the amendment 72
Against it 214
Majority -1a
Mr. O'CONNELL should propose an amendment in
the same spirit, but more limited in its extent than the
last. His amendment NI as, that in every case of a new
writ issuing for the election of a Member during the con-
tinuance of this Parliament, from the issuing of that writ
until its return, the powers of this Act should be suspended
in the place where such election was to he had.
After a few words from Lord ALTHORP, this amend-
ment was agreed to.
Mr. O'CONNELL then moved that no meeting of
any chartered body should be deemed unlawful within
this Act. Unless this clause was p►ssed, every Corpora-
tion in the country would be at the mercy of the Lord
Lieutenant.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the clause was
unnecessary, as there was a power in the magistrates of
every town in Ireland to call a meeting, which the Lord-
Lieutenant had no power to control.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that the rules which applied
to English corporations, were not always applicable to
Irish corporations.
After a few observations from Lord Aurrtour and Mr.
O'CONNELL, quite inaudible i❑ the gallery, in conse-
quence of the noise in the House, the amendment was
negatived.
Mr. O'CONNELL then proposed, amidst much laugh-
ter, an amendment to the effect, that as the powers con-
ferred by the present Act were granted in consequence of
the confidence felt by Parliament in the present Ministers,
and in their mild administration of those powers, they
should cease and determine with the responsibility of the
present Ministers in the event of their removal from office.
The amendment was not persevered in.
Mr. O'DWYER then moved that at the end of the
10th clause there should be a proviso, declaring that no-
thing in this Act should enable the Lord Lieutenant to
grant any commissions for courtsmartial in any disturbed
district,. until he should have sent down thither a Special
Commission for the trial of offences, or till he should have
received a special report from the judges on circuit in that
part of the country, that the jury system was inoperative
there for the ends of justice, and that the introduction of
courtsmartial was necessary.
The amendment was understood to be negatived.
After a few observations from the SOLICITOR-GENERAL,
Mr. SHELL, and Mr. H. GRATTAN, the preamble was
agreed to.
The House resumed, and the Chairman brought up the
report. The Bill was then ordered to be read a third
time on Friday next.
Lord ALTHORP suggested the propriety of sitting on
Saturday if the 13111 was ❑ot got through with on Friday
night.
Mr. O'CONNELL objected to sitting on Saturday;
and said the House might sit as long as necessary on
Friday night—to four o'clock on Saturday morning if
requisite.
Lord ALTHORP hoped they would he able to get
through the Bill o❑ Friday.
CHANGE OF VENUE BILL. _

Mr. STANLEY rn,ved the second reading of this Bill.
He would not discuss its principles then, provided it were
pei mitttd him to do so on the third reading of it.
ARMY ESTIMATES.

After some previous discumsion as to the propriety of
entering on the army estimates at the late hour of eleven
o'clock, during which Mr. Hume gave his consent that
they should lw gone into,
Lord ALTHORP moved the order of the day for the
House to go into a Committee of Supply on the army

estimates
Mr. I3ERNAL having taken the chair,
Sir J C. HOBHOUSE rose and said, that as they had
arrived at a period of the session when it was usual to
call upon the House to pass a vote of credit for the pur-
pose of meeting the army expenditure, he hoped he
should meet. with the attention of the Committee,
whilst he called upon them to give their sanction to
one portion of the army estimates, which was the only
one he intended to bring forwaad that night—viz the
usual vote for the number of men. H- felt that he
came before the Committee in the execution of his
duties, under circumstances somewhat to his disadvantage.
For many years a gradual diminution in the dead
weight of the army had been going on, so that it orris
impossible for any one ho'ding the office which he had
the hmour unworthily to fi 1, to come forward at the
present moment with any very flourishing comparative
statement between the amount of the army estimates now,
and that of former periods There was also another cause
for his being placed in a disadvantageous lie ht on the pre-
sent occasion, which resulted from the posaibil,ty of a
comparison being instituted bet, een his Right Hon. Friend
at the head of ti.e A tniralty, and himself, with regard
to the reducii"ns which his Right Hon. Friend had been
enabled to make in the expenditure of the n ivy, since he
had managed that branch of tire public service. Whilst
he could point to on such favourable circumstances. at
least to alit, thing like an equal ext iv in 'the department
controlled by him, there was this consideration, however,
to be offered in extenuation—namely, that the Secretary-
at-War had simply to deal with a given number of men
and a certain amount of mon y, which was requisite fin
their support, whilst the First Lord of the Ad:niralty,
having a much larger scope wherein to exercise his powers
of retrenchment and views of economy, had a propor-
tionably gr ater opportunity for earning that praise,
which his Right Hon. Friend had so justly received.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) It was, however, his good fortune,
on the present occasion, to be able to bring for-
ward his branch of the public expenditure, to have it in
his power to sty that, in the estimates which he was about
to lay on the table, there was, in spite of that constant and
gradual diminution in the non-effective part of them during
recent years, to which he had already referred, a further
diminution on every item charged to the account of the
effective and non-effective forces, to the amount of 206,000/.
—(Cheers)—compared with the amount of the same
estimates in the last year. In rendering this saving clear
to the apprehension of the House, he must trouble
them fur their attention whilst he made a short state-
ment of the comparative number of troops employed now
and at former times, as we I as of the increased c, lonial
responsibilities incurred by Great Britain, which rendered
it necessary to maintain the present amount of fore. a. 111
making this statement, he should avail himself of none of
those ruts of m)stificatiou by which former similar state-
ments had, he feared, been too often justly characterized,
but Le would endeavour fairly and openly to show
where the differences existed, in what services it had
been found necessary to increase the number of
troops, and in what other services they had been enabled to