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London, England, 1848-08-04 00:00:00

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After a short conversation, the Committee divided,
when there appeared—
For the amendment l6
Against it
Majority
After a few observations from Culontd SIB I'HORP,
the clause was agreed to.
On clause 3.
Mr. ANSTEY complained that sufficient facilities
Were not given for any borough reported against to de-
fend itself from disfranchisement, and protested against
constituencies being taken by surprise. He would move
that the blank in the clause be filled up with the words
"not more that 21 nor less than 14 days."
Mr. J. STEWART suggested that some notice should
be given to the authorities of a borough when a Com-
mittee of inquiry was appointed.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL recommended that the
minimum of the notice should be seven days.
Sir R. PEEL thought the proposal of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Youghal a fair one, and, as a friend to the men-
But e, be would recommend the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman to adopt it. In every such case, care ought to be
taken that the parties had sufficient notice.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL consented to adopt the
words " not more than 21 days. nor less than 14 days;"
and they were inserted in the clause.
Mr. HENLEY pointed out discrepancies between the
duties assigned to " Committees," and those assigned
to " Commissioners," which clearly ought to be the
same.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL admitted that this was
the Case, and promised that the two provisions should be
made to agree with each other.
Mr. ANSTEY thought the Commissioners ought only
to have the power of collecting evidence, and reporting
the same to the House.
Mr. J. STEWART objected to the Bill, because it
made the Commissioners both prosecutors and judges, a
Principle which was abhorrent to the constitution.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the duty of
the Committee would be to make inquiry and report
their conclusion thereupon to the house. The House
would then decide what course to pursue.
Mr. HENLEY thought the more.they proceeded into
the Bill the more confused they got.---( Hear.)
Mr. ANSTEY objected to the Committee reporting
their conclusions to the House.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that in certain cases as
Election Committee might now report to the House
that further inquiry into cases of bribery was neces-
sary, and the Speaker, therefore, nominated a Cora-
raitte e.

Mr. STUART could not but think that Commis-
aioners, who were to hold a court for the purpose of pro•
gecuting inquiries affecting the rights and characters of
individuals, were exercising functions essentially judi-
cial. But if their functions were not judicial, the appli-
cation of the same words to them and to the Committee,
Whose functions were judicial, would load to great con-
fusion.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL explained.
Colonel SIBTHORP, however, interrupted him to
observe that they were really wasting- time. He advised
the Solicitor. General to go home and study the Bill, and
Come down hereafter better informed upon it. They
appeared to be a set of incompetent bunglers altogether;
never were such a lot bundled up together.—(Laughter.)
Mr. HUDSON asked what the Government meant to
do provided a body of electors in any particular borough
were found guilty of corrupt practices? He wished the
Solicitor-General would make a return to the House of
*lee
Loll expenditure. He did not mean at Devonport,
"'callus he knew that Devonport was a nomination
borough of the Government, and that the Honourable
Gentleman was returned for it, not on account of any
Merits of his own, but because Government wished him
to be elected for it. The Honourable Gentleman was
Very great man, no doubt, and had a very cavalier
!IV of treatieg Members.—(Here there were very loud
.(ct'uns and cries of " Oh !" proceeding from both sides of
Rouse.) He had no objection to wait until gentle-
Zen had done crying" Oh." He knew how to deal with
popular assemblies.—(oh.) He had always overcome
Position in them by patience and perseverance.—(oh.)
ti."° repeated thia. Bill zlid not go far enough, and he
.t.
at
it would do no good.
'rd J. RUSSELL, as to the course they had pursued
"Port this Bill, wished to observe that when the Govern-
!lent; at the desire of the House, ha
that such personal at-
ile" would be made upon his Hon. and Learned Friend
:▪ that to which he had been just exposed.—(Loud cries
"on te
°' "Hear, hear.") He hoped the House would not
eane uch method of discussing the measure.
PALMER wished, as a member of the proles-
-BG-13-ttlich, was adorned by the Honourable and Learned
!oeilfr°, 40, to express his deep regret that any such per-
il"- "'tack should be made upon him. He hoped the
for cmcourable Gentleman (Mr. Hudson), having had time
thatreflection, would feel that he ought not to have made
attack--.(" Ne from Mr. Hudsonj—but if he did nut
wt was sure there was not another Member in the House
40 felt with him.—(Loud cheering.) In his opinion
• e
Solicitor-General added lustre to the profession and
to
that assembly.—(Renewed cheers.)
Zbe CHAIRMAN then put the question.
h ANSTEY rose amid general groaning, and said
ie objected to the the word "and" in this clause.—
4-4_kul laughter and deep groans.) The Honourable
leoiber, amid much interruption, persisted in addressing
the House for some time in support of the objection.
' HODGSON said the Hon. Member appeared to
„s_2o much interrupted that he thought it his duty to
":'e that the Chairman report progress.
too he gallery was then cleared tor a division, but none
Place, and on re-entering the gallery we found
hA„,'
r• BRIGHT appealing-to the Hun. and Learned
"Inber for Youghal to consider whether in the course
wtlB pursuing he might nut lay himself open to the
taPetation of tactiousness.—(Hear, hear.)
ANSTE repudiated the suggestion of fee..
1°,,-„—'esis as appaled to his conduct, and proceeded to
111;'e ko amendment to the effect that the proposed Com-
tOtorters should not have power to decide upon any of
he° eaa4lB which had already been adjudicated ut.on
reigulerly constituted tribunals of the House, but
olu,
h. deb;
tam:
tet
el ye em p o
divided,wer empowered to report evidence to the
-euie.
appeared—
For the amendment 23
when there
Agnst it
Majority lOl
The clause was agreed to. •
On clause 4
ANSTEY, ,
le pt, proposed to insert the words, "
the sitting Member or Members," in relation to
gone
examinatirs on on oath of Members by the Commis-
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment .
Against it ll5
The
el Majority
ause was th agreed to, and the House re-
Ilittl_tted, the Committee to sit again at five o'clock to-
,.•Zow (this day).
'tiE TITHE RENT CHARGE, &c. (IRELAND)
(N. BILL.
,hen
some conversatioon2) as to whether it should be
at the morning or evening sitting, it was fixed pro
Terwi for five o'clock on Monday, when-the Hon. Mem-
who has the charge of the Bill (Mr. Hamilton) will Mate the day on which it will be brought on.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
,_Lord J. RUSSELL said ho proposed to consider the
House, if
Lords to this Bill in Committee of
iFeetdhmts
se, ole
en ti if there was no objection in point of
term' to that course.
tucThhe was not aware of any precedent for
7fa course• but in many instances the House had
erre.d amendments made by the Lords to Committees
:Ptstmrs, and he knew no reason why the House should
refer the consideration of such amendments to a
vonamittee of the whole House.
Mr. HENLEY inquired whether some of the Lords'
kil)e,lAMents to this Bill did not trench on the privilege
il4 the House ?
The SPEAKER believed that some of those
Ilnendments did interfere with the privilege of the
Commons, but these would come under the notice of
the Committee.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL intimated that he should
propose that the House go into Committee for the pur-
pose of considering these' amendments on Monday next;
and In answer to a question the Noble Lord added,
that there were some of the amendments he should
Love the House do not :tree to, and that others be
klmitted.

The Committee was then fixed for Monday next.
The Distillery from Sugar Bill was re-committed pro
forma ; the House resumed, and the report was received.
To be read a third time on Monday.
• MARRIAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The LORD-ADVOCATE moved that the second
reading of this Bill be fixed for Monday next, at twelve
O'clock,
Af. ARKWRIGHT said. it. was evident the twelve
o'clock stings were ingenious` devices for smuggling
°booxions Bills through the House. Ile begged, there-
fore, to move that the words *, twelve o'clook" be left out.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion ' 79
For the amendment
The Mujrit
roead y —55
second ing of the Bill was then fixed for
uclay, at twelve o'clock.
WINDSOR APPROACHES BILL.
The report on this Bill was received ; a new clause
the added, binding the parties to the Bill not to exceed
""114n of 85,0001. in executing the whole of the works.
Lanswer to a question by Mr. B. OSBORNE,
Mineed MORPETH said that if at any future time a
Caine down and asked for more money to corn.
1:111/",410htia.ie approaches he would do so in violation of
ThOrISTRATION OF SASINES (SCOTLAND).
hi o LORD ADVOCATE moved for leave to bring
to it to authorise the Lords of Council and Ses.ions
hy4gillate the rates or dues of registration to be charged
ill Er:" keepers of the registers of sines reversions, &c.,
I,o,tland.—Leave given.
~It. URQUHART'S CORRESPONDENCE.
teaD6:4„ J. RUSSELL moved that the order for address
aodCh"ng Mr. Urquhart's correspondence be discharged,
/4,1,t amended order be substituted.
give ''RQUIIART hoped that the Noble Lord would
to me reason for his motion.
Sttes,:,4 RUSSELL said that the Hon. Member for
Nobi: u, too tion had been originally objected to by his
be riend, who had arranged with him that it was to
the r Posed in an amended form. Subsequently, when
in tirtion was made, his Noble Friend thinking it was
Posed terms previously arranged, treated it as an unop-
aseert.r?torb ; but, on subsequent examination, it was
1147.47`red that the motion asked for correspondence of
thew Instead of 1838.9, as had been agreed on. For
nd ~ellasons he now moved that the order be amended,
Apr. as '838.9 be substituted for 1837-8.
paper„ 1111(11111A.RT protested against being given
whiob bo ur which he had never asked, and refused those
bad been promised. He contended that his

) motion was strictly in accordance with the understanding
into which he had entered with the Noble Lord the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs. He should decline the
correspondence now offered.—(The lion. Member im-
mediately left the House.)
Lord PALMERSTON said that he had understood
the Hon. Member to ask fin. the correspondence with
Mr. Backhouse relative to the Portfolio, and that was
what he had agreed to give. The motion, however,
which was now sought to he rescinded was for corre-
spondence relative to the lion. Member's recal, and that
correspondence he (Lord Palmerston) had distinctly in-
timated to the Hon. Member could not be given. On
constitutional grounds he thought that that correspond-
ence could not be made the subject of discussion in that
House.
Mr. ANSTEY quoted Mr. Urquhart's speech to prove
that the motion did not refer to corrcspondene connected
with the Portfolio, but to his recal from the legation of
Constantinople.
The mo ion was then put and agreed to, and
The House adjourned at, a Quarter before Two
o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS.

(From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Common.s.)

THURSDAY, AUG. 3.

FARMERS' ESTATE SOCIETY (IRELAND) BILL.—
Amendment proposed in page 4, line 9 (Printed Bill as
amended) to leave out the words " thirty acres," in order to
insert the words " ten acres," instead thereof: Question
put, " That the words ' thirty acres' stand part of the Bill.
The House divided :
MAJORITY—AYES, 52.
Arkwright, G. Greenall, Gilbert Mullings, J. 11.
Blackall, S. W. Grogan, Edward Norreys, Sir 1).
Brown, W. Hamilton, J. H. Parker, John
Campbell, W. F. Hayter, W. G. Pattison, J.
Carew, W. P. Heald, JameS ltapkael, Alexander
Clay, James Hobhouse., T. B. Seymour, Lord
Clements, Charles Houldsworth, T. Sidney, Alderman
Cocks, 1 homas S. Howard, P.ll. Somerville. Sir W.
Courtenay, Lord Hudson, G. Thornely, T.
Dlyett, Edward Jollilie, Sir W. 11. Tuthell, Henry
Duckworth,; Sir J. Jones, Captain Vane, Lord H.
Duncan, George' Knox, Colonel Walsh, Sir J. B.
Duncuft, John Law, C. H. Willcox, Brodie
Edwards, Henry Lewis, George C. Wyvill, Marmaduke
Ferguson, Sir It. Mastcrman, J.
Forster, Matthew Meux, Sir 11. 1
Fuller, A. E. Milner, W. M. TELLERS.
Gladstone, W. E. Morpeth, Viscount Monsell, William
Grace, 0. D. J. Mostyn, E. StaNrd, Augustus

MINORITY-NOES, 14.
Alcock, Thomas Grenfell, Charles W. Tenison, E. K.
Armstrong, Sir A. Henry, Alexander Wilson, Matthew
Caulfeild, J. M. Kershaw, James
Dawson, T. V. .M'Cullagh, W. T. TELLERS.
Fortescue, Chichester Pilkington, James Scrope, G. P.
Greene, John lteynolds, John Thompson, Colonel