The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
110 USE OF LORDS, March 6.
The LORD CIIANC ELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at
ten minutes past. Five o'clock.
IRISH OUTRAGES.
Lord FARNHAM presented a petition signed by the High
Sheriff and grand jury of Cavan, in favour of the Government
measure for protection to lives and property in Ireland.
CORN-LAW'S.
The Earl of CARNARVON presented petitions from
Winchester and other places in favour of protection to agricul-
ture. He had been among the petitioners himself during the
last few days, and he could state that they were influenced by
very strong feelings on these laws. They were of opinion that
the laws affording protection should, in justice to the farmer,
be continu el, for they feel that the farmer had difficulties to
contend with different from those of any other class in so-
ciety. These difficulties were principally of a natural
kind—changeable seasons, frosts, and other casualties,
which no painstaking or intelligent cultivator could
by any foresight guard against. They had not as quick
returns for their capital as manufacturers had, and they were
consequently desirous to have a more fixed and certain remune-
ration for their industry. 'I hey very much deprecated the
measure recently introduced into the other House of Parlia-
ment, which they considered as being neither in conformity
with the political sagacity of the Noble Duke, the original
pelicy of the Government, or the opinions of the late Secretary
of the Colonies, whom they considered as well qualified as
any other Noble Lord to decide what measures were best
calculated to be advantageous to the country.
PROTECTION OF LIFE (IRELAND) BILL. h
Lord BROUGHAM wished to make an observation my the
measure about to be introduced by the Noble Earl (St. G -
mana). He thought such a measure should be discussed in
the presence of his Noble and Learned Friend the Lord Chief
Justice. It was impossible for the Noble and Learned Lord
to be in town till Saturday, and he could then remain till
Monday evening.
The Earl of WICKLOW said his Noble and Learned
Friend had appointed this day for the discussion of the Bill ;
but now it appeared that the Lord Chief Justice would
not be in town till Monday.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought it was necessary
that the opinions of the Lord Chief Justice should be known on
such a measure.
Earl ST. GERM ANS was in the hands of the House.
The illarqui, of LANSDOWNE thought that the recom-
mittal of the Bill would enable the Lord Chief Justice to ex-
press his opinions.
The Martinis of CLAN RICARDE said he would propose
that the duration of the Bill should be limited to five years.
Indeed he thought that even that period would be too long,
and he would rather prefer that it should be for only one year.
It was ame sure of a very strong character, and one the
working of which they could form no opinion of whatever.
Upon the duration of the Bill would entirely depend whether
be should form one of the Committee.
Earl GREY said it would be a great inconvenience to many
Noble Lords to have this measure postponed. No doubt it
would be very desirable to have the assistance of the Lord
Chief Justice, but as that could be had in the future stages of
the Bill it would be well to proceed now, as he was desirous of
bringing on his amendments.
Earl St. GERM ANS said he was quite willing to adopt
that course. lie would first proceed to state the amendments
proposed by her Majesty's Government seriatim, and then
they could be discussed afterwards. One amendment he had
to propose was one suggested by a Noble Friend of his, a
Member of the other House, Lord Clemente, which
was that the Act should have a retrospective effect;
that was to say, that in all cases of districts now
under a state of proclamation the Lord Lieutenant
would have it in his power to charge the expenses incurred by
such proclamation upon that district. This would have the ef-
fect of enforcing a pecuniary penalty upon any district in a
state of disturbance. The next clause was one to limit the
duration of the Act :—" And be it enacted, that this Act
shall continue and be in force for five years from and after
the passing thereof, and to the end of the then next session of
Parliament, and may be amended or repealed by any Act to be
passed in the present session of Parliament." It was intended
also, that a petty sessions should be held in the disturbed
districts, at least once in every week. He would now pro-
ceed to the amendments proposed by the Lord Chief Justice.
The first of those related that no proclamation) should be
issued, unless the requirement to the Lord Lieutenant
were signed by three acting justices of the peace
in the county. He (Earl St. Germans) thought it would be
desirable that the whole responsibility of these proclamations
should rest on the Executive Government. He considered
that the Executive Government should not screen itself behind
the authority of any one, and that magistrates should not be
needlessly required to place themselves in a state of considerable
personal danger. Some prevision might be inserted to remedy
the delay occasioned in the issuing of these proclamations, but
he did not conceive that any amendment to a greater extent
was necessary. He did not propose to adopt the amendment
of the Noble and Learned Lord in this instance, or
to introduce any other in its room. The object of the
second amendment of the Noble Lord was, no doubt, to re-
medy any d-lay that might take place with the man who
might be charged with crime. He had, however, some diffi-
cu ty in adopting the amendment. The magistrates would be
placed by it in an invidious position, for the individual so
charged might be his own tenant. To meet that diffi ulty the
measure provided that a petty sessions should be held every
week at each of the disturbed districts. If the man appre-
hended gave a satisfactory account of himself he would be at
once liberated ; but if not, they would have the power of pro-
ceeding as the circumstances of the case seemed to require.
He would now come to the amendments of the Noble Lord
opposite (Cottenham). With respect to them he must say,
that so far as eases of misdemeanor were concerned, the)
might be effictive enough, but the ease of murder was left
wholly untouched by them. He did not wish to discuss the
subject at present, but he repeated that the Noble Lord who
had proposed this measure should have brought it in as a ge-
neral Bill. He now came to the amendment proposed by the
Noble Lord to dispense with the punishment of transportation
for the offence of being out after nightfall. That punishment
would be the only vindication of this measure. If the measure
were considered as necessary, the question was, what was the
amount of punishment necessary to deter persons from the
commission of these offences ? It was impossible that any
fixed or unalterable rule should be laid down with regard to it,
but it should be left to the Legislature to determine the pu-
nishment for each particular offence. He was able to ask with
confidence every Noble Lord in that House, who was at all
connected with Ireland, whether the punishment above all
other most dreaded by the criminals of Ireland was not trans-
portation? and, therefore, looking at the subject as a mere
question of humanity, would it not be better to make one or
two examples? It would produce more effect than any other
sort of punishment, if criminals were to be summarily trans-
ported, and removed at once from the dock to the transport
ship. Those who were imprisoned returned to their homes
when their term was expired without being in any way deterred
frogs the commission of fresh offences. In the year 1835, Mr.
O'Connell had said that there were parts of this Bill of which
he entirely approved. He thought that no perm resident in
the disturbed districts should be allowed to go from his home
after nightfall without giving a sufficient reason for his ab-
sence, as by that means many offences would be prevented. It
was a calumny to say, that in giving that approval he took
away from the just liberty of the subject, for it would only
have the effect of preventing the people from committing
crimes and outrages deserving of punishment. These were the
()pinions of Mr. O'Connell in regard to the disturbances in
Ireland. He (the Earl St. Germans) considered that unless
measures were taken to prevent parties going out at night, so
hang would they be unable to prevent the occurrence of crime.
And further, he considered that unless there was a dispropor-
tion between the punishment and the crime the evil would not
be remedied. Mr. O'Connell said in 1834, that this Bill (re-
ferring to the measure then proposed) was calculated to meet
an exceeding great evil, those midnight disturbances, which
related not alone to agree ian questions, but which affected the
whole face of society. He considered it was no infringement
of public hberty to prevent persons from going out at night
litho had no lawful business, but who rather, if permitted,
mere bent on inflicting injury upon their fellows. If this re-
ntriction were judiciously carried out, it would exercise a mo--t
ualutary and beneficent influence on Ireland. Such were the
opinions of Mr. O'Connell in 1834 and 1835. Tile restriction
was not intended against the well disposed, but against per-
seens oho were about to engage in evil practices, and which
there was no means of reaceing at present; the great diffi-
erulty being to get evidence against persons who were guilty or
!midnight outrages. To meet this difficulty the present pro-
vision was proposed. If innocent parties were taken up under
it, they would be discharged by the magi-trate ; or, if suspi-
cion seas against them, they would he referred to a higher tribu-
nal, where, if faultle, s, they would be allowed logo free;
then would they, and deservedly, be subjeettel to punishment.
He really could not believe that those Noble Lords who wished
withold from the Judges of the land the powers propos by
the Bill, understood the state of crime in that country, whirls
so endangered life and property. He held in his hand a me.
rnorhil to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, from the magistrates
of the county of Tipperary. It prayed that Government would
brig in a law which would conduce to the safety of life and
property in Ireland. It stated that so daring had the evil-dis-
posed become that the most frightful outrages were committed
in the broad day, without respect to name or creed. The me-
morial went on to show how necessary it was that some
stringent measure should be brought into force to put an end to
such frightful acts. The declaration went on to state that
intimidation had reached such a height that people in art humble
class of life could not be induced to give evidence ; that it was
not to the num'aer of crimes, but their character, the memo-
rialists directed attention; that it was not the lives of
landlords that were in danger, but the peasants' hut
was the scene of murder; and that ejectment from
land was not the cause of outrage, but the most trivial occur-
rencet was made a cause for outrage. That document ( eon-
minaened the Noble Lord) was signed by Lord Dunally, a noble-
man
known in this House, a resident landlord, and one of
extremely
upon this liberalpolitics. Indeed he (Earl St. Germans)
looked
measure as by no means sufficient to meet the
exigencyseGf
~thveerncase---)t. would rather fall short of it ; but her
Majesty's
a strength beyond diet not wish to enforce any measure
was a subject of necessary. As this
hear him with patience i)
great imp was al"iutelY
tance, he trusted the House would
whilee he read another docatncnt, The
Noble Lord then read a, massmemolaelafrom the grand jury of the
county of Roscommon
at summer assaes, 1815,
which was to the same effect as that from the magistr4tes of
the county Tipperary. That document
as signed by the
O'Conor Don, and he need not remindt eras
would read to Lordships that
Ile he was not a person to exaggerate the evil.
their Lordship' another document from the same
the High Sheriff and the grand jury at the last
document was similar in substance to the one first assizes The
.7rtys from
was signed by a gentleman named Tennyson, and by 11l.rs.
Fi:z,teplien French, the Member for the county. He had
read thesedecoments to show the House that gentlernendiffering
in Folit:eal opinions from the Government had taken the same
view that they did, and had urged the Government to bring
forward a measure to give protection to life and property,
no doubt, been shocked, when
Their Lordships had,
they read of the attempt to assassinate two gentlemen, a late
Member of the other House, and one of the best landlords in
Ireland. He would read a letter received by him from the
office of the Chief Secretary for Ireland. The Noble Lord
read the letter, which stated that the attempt at assassination
had been made within four miles of Limerick, and at seven
o'clock in the evening, when numbers of persons were on the
road. The gentlemen, whose lives were attempted, were Sir
David Roche and Sir Edmund Lyons. Was this a state of
things that ought longer to exist ? It was absolutely necessary
that some stringent measures should be taken. Nothing could
be more painful to him than to stand up and propose any
measure which would tend to abridge the liberties of the
people. But it was the first duty of the State to take such
steps as might be deemed expedient for the protection of life
and property.
Lord BROUG r-lAM said, that a feeling of shame was created
when they heard that portions of their fellow country-
men were leading lives so detestable as these unhappy
victims of delusion, who thought they had a right to massacre
their landlords for making a lawful and righteous use of their
own property. He did not mean to say one word counter to
the statements of the Noble Lord. He believed the different
statements received from the grand juries and lieutenants were
quite correct. They were, therefore,r all agreed that some effi-
cacious measure was required to the crime which so
awfully abounded in that unhappy country,ereaato
make i make it, as
suitable for
he said on a former evening, habitable—t
ailtl that,
the residence of peaceable subjects. They
and yet at the same time be of opinion that
not a measure befitted in all its parts to meet the wasnee
'amities of the case. He, :proposed his
_ameiadmead-