The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-04 00:00:00

what confidence could the people be expected to have in the
admieistratien of its provisions? - (Hear, hear.) Then came
the mate trials, in reference to which, he would ask, was there
net a one-sided charge delivered cn that. oi:cu.:ion, at.d r:hat
irepresiien was that vroceedieg calculated to leave upon the
mints of the Irish people ?—( Hear, hear.) Well, than, he
would tell the Government that they were bound to make
sonic recompense for all this mi•ery, and inky-tiee, arid wrong.
What hail he suggested as such recompense? As yet he had
snegeated nothing, but before he sat down he meant t•a do so.
No-d,oubt some erratic murders had taken place in Leland, hut
the great mass of crime entirely arose out of questions about
the possession of land. lie was sorry to say that there were
exceptions to this, and that they had of late become mole
numerous. 13ut the great question, the great evil of
Ireland hod its origin in disputes about land.—
( Hear, hear. ) Hitherto the Government of this country
had done nothdp, for the eroteettoe of the rights of the Irish
tenant, while tiny had passed numerous enactments by which
th. y had increased the poser of the landlord The 53,1 Grlsho;
IIL , fee, was the first Act alter the union that gave
Irish landlord a summary power of ejectment. Up to that
e 7,...
e
such au ac: was unknown in England, i..r in any part of
I,teld
iseii Europe. Up to that time no landlird haul eve, .--ttern
to cliserain the growing crop of his tomcat for his rent-7 (Elea,t
hear)—but thet Act give him the power to do so. That Act
gave him the power to distrain the crowing crop; and until
it was ripe and fit to cut he would place keepers u; on the an
forertiate tenant, at a immense expense, for perhaps five or
weeks; and he (Mr. O'Connell) did not believe that a
more fruitful source of discontent and crime had ever been
heard of than that which that AA had proved in its operation.
In some cases, where the wretched tenant was seized upon in
this way, he had not the m an* of aupplyirg his family with
food, and if his wife went forth to beg it. she would he taken
up and imprison d ; and let him ask, could such a law fail to
he a fruitful source of crime?—( Hear, hear.) The next
Act for inerea-ins the power of the lanillord over the tenant
was the Firth Coo. 111, which not only gave the power of
Civil Bill ejectment, but the power of turning out the tenant ;
and ti.e ist George IV., cap. 87, further increase d that
power, by enabling the landlord to demand from the tenant
security for the costs of an action before he could take
defence in a case where he felt convinced his landlord was the
aggressor—a system of law which, he believed, was unknown
and unheard-of in any other civilised country in the world.—
( Hear, hear.) The Ist and 2d, and the 6th and 7th William
IV., were next passed, and they still further increased the
power of the landlord—as if the Legislature thoureht that
their only interest was the interest of the landlord—( Hear. )
Weil, then, the remedy which he would suggest should be ap-
plied to remove all Verse causes of crime, and all those imple-
ments of injustice, was, that measure of full and complete
justice to Ireland which she had so often demanded.—( Hear,
hear.) Ireland had not an adequate number of representa-
tives in that House ; she had not a fair proportion of the elec-
tive franchise. Grant her those and other measures of justice
which he had so often enumerated, and that was the real way
by which to coerce the Irish people.. Coerce th-m by their
affections and their gratitude, and then they will be all
that a Government could wish them.—( Hear, hear.) New,
with regard to the landlord and tenant question, he would ask,
why not give the tenant at least a lease of twenty-one years of
his farm ? Recollect, that if the land on which the Irish neasant
lived be taken from hitn, he is deprived of the means of life.
Why should he not be allowed a fair compensatiori for the ex-
penditure of his capital nut his labour in improving his land •
lord's property ? He (Mr. O'Connell) did not mean any ex-
trevagent allowance for fantastical outlay ; there was little fear
of that; but he wanted to have the tenant remunerated for his
labour, for the loss of his property; and it he imeroved theland
he held, he sheuli be allowed to have the full benefit of it.—

( Hear, hear.) Oh 1 if this were done, only see what a stimu •
lent it would he to ability and industry.—( Hear. hear. ) How
happy and contented the Irish tenant would be when he felt
that his labour was his own, and that he was working for him-
self.—( Hear, hear.) Let him have this, without encumber-
ing it with clauses and provisions, with whirls he might. never
be able to comply ; prover t that wild, savage " c'earance"
system, through whose agency se many trim's that affrighted
the land had been caectrnitt.'d, and he promisod the House they
would hear nu more of those crimes. —( Clear hear.) Ile
would now refer o the Ulster tenant-right, and read an extract
from the evidence that had been published in reference to it.
Diet was the evi fence given of the state of things in the
north. flow often bad he heard gentlemen boast of the
peaceful rhsreition of the people of the north ; hut why were
they so, but because they were better treated by their land-
lords ?—(1Ie sr. ) The tenant going out was allowed to sell
the ten int-, ieht, or dispose of it as he wished : he was not a
wretched beggar, as in the case of less •fastoured districts of the
country. ow, he gave the Government their choice between
the conditions of the people of Ukter and Tipperary : the
present was the moment to d 'cid • ; let Clem decide wisels
for they might be assured their miserable Coercien Bill would
not answer. —( Hear, hear.) There were, to be sure, many
excellent landlords in hipperary, but there was also a nume-
rous body of exceeding bad ones.—( Hear.) Then, there
were many estates in the hands of the tenants; but let
the Legislature intervene; let the law lake, as it were, the posi-
tion and sit uatien of the land ord : let it do but justice. and
there woul 1 in a short .time be an cad of agrarian crime in
Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He (sfr. O'Connell) was not se licit-
ing the Gevernment to travel into unfrequented ground ;
they had the evidence of 300 years before them in respect of
the tenant right in Ulster, and let them act by it.--( Hear,
hear.) He would not then occupy the time of the House
longer, as it would be idle of him to go into further detail.
He had pointed out toe evils th it existed, as well as what he
had conceived would be their remedy, and it then rested with
the Government to a.-opt or reject those remedies as they
teased. Ulster was tranquil spider the tenant right. while the
south anti west were dis urbed because of the insecurity of
teligre. The unhappy p asantry were reduced to the half-rotted
potato for their food, with tee water their only drink. Their
houses were pervious to the rain ; they were ill-c!othed and
ill-covered, but all that was known before, and he would not
repeat. it or add to it a single word, but conclude by proposing
the amendment with which he had set out.—( Hear, hear. )
Captain B. OSBORNE ( whose opening observations did
not reach the gallery) was understood to say that, in rising to
second the amendment so ;del), proposed by his Hon. and
Leaenisd Friend ( O'Connell) he was anxious to guard
himself from being misconceived, because, while he shared
with the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home
Department that feeling of horror at the crime of assassination
in Ireland, yet. as a resident of the country to which the present
measure was intended to apply, and one deeply interested
in her welfare, he deprecated its introduction, as being, in his
opinion, inefficient, and strongly calculated to influence the
complicated evils of that country. It was easy for Members of
that House to come down, and, expressing their horror of mur-
der, call on the Legislature to enact more stringent measures
for the protection of life. But in his opinion it would he much
more worthy of the statesman if he first applied himself to the
concoction of a measure that would go to eradicate the causes
of these outrages.—( Hear, hear.) It there was nne duty more
imperative in a statesman than another, it was that of proving
to the people of 'relate' that he was ready to grapple with their
condition social, political, anti relieious—( Hear), whilst or, the
other hand a coercive measure was a prof and
an acknowledgement of his incapacity as a Minister.—( Hear,
hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir J. Graham)
had, oe a former night, referred to the language of Mr. Burke
on the subject of free trade; anti he (Captain B. Osborne)
would then beg to refer him to the sentiments of that
great man on a question similar to that then before the House.
—( Hear. ) Mr. Burke said, speaking of coercion, " God for-
bid, that on a worthy occasion authority should want the means
of being enforced ; but where the hearts of the people do not
go with the hands of the soldiery, you may call your Constitu-
tion what you Ilse ; but it will, in effect consist of three orders,
namely, cavalry, in'antry, and artillery. "—( Hear, hear. )
If he (the Honourable Member) could allow his
feelings to warp his judgment, anti if he c ,nsidered
that the resent measure was the least suited for the suppres-
sion of crime in Ireland, he confessed he would feel induced
to give his vo'e in favour of the second reading of the Bill ;
but he should declare that his feelings were otherwise as to its
result.—( Hear, hear.) He doubted not that there were many
in that Hnu.e who, from ;he sueertictal view they had taken re
this subject, were ready to cemtnir themselves to its support.
bat if it should be shown that the provieons of the Bill were
snore likely to create disc ird than the contrary—if it could be
shown that the Bill itself would be ineperati le, he called on Hon
Gentlemen interested in the welfare of I,elanit not to commit
themselves to its support.—( Heir, hear.) The Right Hon.
art.the Home Secretary read numerous extracts, from reports
furnished the Government, of the state of crone in

Ireland. Now he (Captain Bernal Osborne) might fol-
low his example in the opposite way, hut he would then merely
confine himself to questioning ,he accuracy of those extracts,
as in his opinion there was a vast exaegeration of the amount
of crime in Ireland.—( Hear, hear ) But for the sake of ar-
gument, he would admit the accuracy of the statisti..s ; and
then he would a,k bow the Government in•ended to meet the
qunstion? The Lord Lieutenant was invested with a power to
proclaim a digriet, and make it a tr .nsporta Is offence for

persons to be out at a certain time in the evening after sun,
Such was the principal provi.ion of the measure intended fir
the pacification of Irelanl.—( Hear ) Dal the Right Hon.
Secretary attempt to show how that would deter the noonday
murderer, how it would operate to induce persons
to
cisme forward and give evidence agamst him, or
how it would in any way eradicate the evil ?—( Hear,
hear-) That was the twentieth measure, as was remarked by
Prlier.:o:sltieinoaar nhtehi m)e,cn
the Hon. and Learned G«ntleman ( Mr. O'Connell) who had
ethahad been introduced since the union of a
uva,,:nerd
heard
toi of t
h iv these
ontewoefn ttyh measuresnature,
or
thehe( effectC a p
of
in that countrydown the consequences of Irlsh
mns of evidence gave ample proof that the
was not the case in En
we Il knovrn. colur' hear.) The causes of Iri,h crime were
larose out of dinputss about land, as
murders
all that, either through inability,
Yet the Government, knowing
at the present moment more ortehready to resuscitate an infamous
ignorance, or laxines!, were
strike at the root of the eva'nl to introduce one that would
and inoperative
near, hear.")
Would it be believed that, .the(Csirxitel: ocfen't.ury of English
rule in Ireland, and in thegerae,suernet,enlightened age, that that
atransport a Oinniaeineofwof ratshbeaeing cut of his
.provisions of
Housewhich was
et) a
halbeortutthteol
law to
cabin of er sunset ?—( Hear, hear.)
Government, professing so much concern for enlightenment,
at a
bringing forward a measure brimful of martial law andrnmeanst'
quera:e.—( Hear, hear.) In 1824, he found that the present
Chief Justice for Ireland, then Mr. Illackburne, in his evi-
denee before a Committee, stated, in reply to the question,
" What measures are best calculated to improve the con-
d tion of the people of Ireland ?" that, genarly speaking,
I' education ;loci employment were the best means ;" for, though
Coercion Acts might put down crime for a while, yet they
could not make the order of things beater." Then Mr.
Howley, an assistant 'barrister, stated in his evidence that
the ordinary law, carried out and administered with temper,
would be quite sufficient fer the maintenance of peace and
order."—( Hear, hear.) Such was the wrtten evidence ef an
assistant-barrister for a Tipperary riding.—( Hear.) It would
he in the recollection of Hon. Gentlemen that on a recent
occasion the Recorder of Dublin gave it as his opinion, that
the existing law was sufficient for the suppression of all (Us-.
turbanees, though be (Captain B. Osborne) did not know how
that Learned and Right Hon. Gentleman could reconcile u'h
a statement with the vote given subsequently by him—Wear.)
'f he Right lion. Secretary for the Home Department, when
deseanting on the amount of crime in Ireland, never, it %scull
appear, gave himsel the trouble to inquire to what thy. • erirnes
were to be atiributed.—(Hear. ) Now, why did it not occur to
him that such was caused by the conduct of Givernment itself?
—( Hoar, hear.) In 1543 the Dev n C mmission was issued,
and the excitemimt }iron uceil in Leland by the issuing of that
Commission, could not be overrated, as from its constitutien
and the towers with which it was suppo-ed to he invested, the
greatest expectat tees were edtertained.—( Hear.) Tre report
of the Commission wound up by saying that "the patient en-
durance and suffering. tst the agricultural labourers of Ireland
entitled them to the most serious con.idtration of t e
House ; and yet a Bill. fun led on the report, was introduced,
the provisions of which were so ridiculous that they estabished
for the measure a tart of fixity of tenure. as he believed it
still lay a dead letter in tine litiu•e where it had been first in-
tro ueed.—( Hear, and laughter. ) The Right lion. ;secre-
tary for the Home Department. citing the language of Mr.
Fox its 1797, said, " that Irelaud should be leglslated for with
a regard to Irish feelings and rejudices."--(" Hear, he ir,"
fro.. :sir James Graham.) New he (kSapt.iin II Osborne)
did rot know what id •a the Right lion. Gentleman enter-
s:ll,...,l of Irish prejui.ice. and feeling , but if any proof were
anted to stiow that he entertained no idea of either, it was
the lin! • ro.Thetico of the present Hill, a 111.1 so powerless that
he did not think the Government were serious in their inte
the concoction
Con of passing weak, • o inoperative was it, that. it seemed
of a weak and vacillating cabinet..—(lriear.)

There were certain clauses in the Bill to which he wished to
call the attention of the Legislature. What would the House
say if some dr spotic minister—some man of great abilities,
who might be influenced by newspaper paragraphs, were to
come down to them, and, after reading two or three murders
from provincial newspapers, were to call on the House to pass
a Coercion Bill. The legislation for both countries must be
the same, as the interest) of the countries could not be severed.
folriethweisohtleidert,o andeall what was
atten-
tion en-
bad Whatfo
rwoansegzds
bad for ot,n,
ther wase
ion of English Members to the 9th and 14th sections of this
as also to the 6th, 7th, and Bth sections. They all
directed that certain sums should be given as compensation to
other. good
a certain class of persons named, and to the relatives of per-
sons who were murdered. Where was this money to be ad-
vanced from—from the Consolidated Fund ? The Ilaeht Hon.
Baronet the Sec. etary for the Home Department would turn
round and say that the money was to be repaid. By
the 9th and 14th clauses of the Act, the sums directed to be
advanced from the Consolidated Fund are di.ec'ed to be repaid
by a tax on the occupying tenant-cotter, whether his tenure
were above or below 4/. Did any man, who had had any
dealings with the cotter tenantry of Ireland, suppose that such
a rate could he ? The Right lion. Gentleman had told
then, that these agrarian outrages inflicted on the tenant were
infl reed on the landlord, and yet he was about to burden them
with this taxation. Ile (Captain 11. Osbetne) was intimate
with the cutter tenantry of Ireland, and he was more astonished
at their patience than surerised at their crimes. Let the
Right Hon. Gentleman recollect that physical destitution and
mural degradation went hand in hand. Men could not be de-
based in the scale of comfort without making them like wild
beasts, and it was useless for the Govern ent to be framing
coercion laws when they knew that the vices of the people
had been caused by their own bad legislation. He
thought that it was necessary to refer to a few
sentences which fell from a Noble Lord the other evening.
'I he Noble Lord thought it necessary to believe the Govern-
ment accounts of famine in Ireland, but lie placed implicit
reliance on the Governrceet details of Irish crimes—(Loud
cheers from the Opposition.) If Irish crimes had a more direct
tendency to influence the Corn Bill, he should like to know if
the Noble Lord would be more incredulous. The Noble Lord
had remarked that any man who opposed the passing of this
measure ought to be held responsible, and was responsible, for
every murder that was committed in Ireland, thereby arguing
that any man who might feel it necessary to differ from the
opinion of the Noble Lord was responsible for the outrages
committed in Ireland. Whenever the Noble Lord " bolted"
from the figures of rhetoric to the figures of speech, he
was sure " to disappoint his baceers, and run himself
into distress"—(Laughter.) When the Noble Lord
came down to that House he produced a newspaper, and,
after citing from its columns two cases of murder, proceeded
to argue upon the necessity of coercive measures or Ireland.
What mould the Noble Lord think if he (Captain Osborne)
were to take at random two counties in England ? He would,
take Stafferdshire, and he there found that a man named Brown
killed his brother by beating on his head with a hammer, and
then hid his body in a sandpit. The marderer held a farm
under his brother, an I in consequence of the non-payment of
the rent, the urother threatened to distrain, and it was the fear
of being turned out that induced the commission of the murder.
Was it considered necessary to proclaim Staffordshire in con-
sequence of that murder? He would now turn to a village in
saomersetshire, Bridgwater, where a woman poisoned her bro-
ther, and, it was supposed, three other relatives, and would any
man in his senses deduce from that that the people of Bridg-
water were so brutal that a Coercion 11111 was necessary. If he
were to look into the provincial newspapers he might even
find that some such facts had occurred in Lynn, and an accord-
ing to the Noble Lord's argument, rendering a Coercion Bill
necessary for that place. The Noble Lord could not adopt a
worse principle than to cut slips out of newspapers to bring
them forward as excuses for such measures. He must now
say and he said it with great regret, that he had some little
quarrel with the Right lion. Gentleman the Secretary for the
Home Department. In the absence of the Irish Secretary
some excuse might he made for his ignorance of the state of
Ireland. when he said that there were five counties in that
country in a state of abs lute disturbance, Tipperary being
s, ecially mentioned amongst them. It was right that the
Right hien. Gentleman sh•iuld know that it was only in the
North-west Riding of Tipperary that these disturbances
tuek place. In the South Riding crime was unknown. He
spoke as a resident. and he knew that the landed ptoprietors
there would defend their rights while they were not inattentive
or unmindful of their dut:es ; and it was therefore he now at-
:earpted to do justice to the country. An Hon. and Learned
Gentleman near him had alluded very cursorily to the number
of civil-bill ejectments, from 1839 to 1843. He said that the
number of these rjeetments in these five counties was 2,331
tiering that period. There had, however, been 72,932 notices
served, and, taking every family to consist of five, that would
give a total of 364,910 persons. He would nit, however, be
so hurried en by news aper reports as to forget that he was
in that House to lekslaee for his fellow-countrymen. The
peopie in England, on hearing this would make great lamen-
tation, and exclaim, " How horrible !" and yet no person ever
thought of asking for the actual return of threw ejectments.
withi'h
.a
railway Nob
the
B 1 Lord
,2iill t,ht sat
ofs ac came
d that
mperol the
,beerft. House
)before
theN
What
,h
House,
taouv: 1 lae raeniv.;hdert to
ywt
aa
interferepassede tax—every
ry
s
but such an interference? and yet such an interference was
be made with the rights of the subject. The
truth was, however, that the man who was born on the soil
had a right to derive his subsistence from it. It was asked,
how were agrarian outrages to be put down ? It was not by
coercive measures, or Protection to Life Bills, that it was to lie
done, but by an alteration of the law of fixed property to re-
move the expense attendant on its sale, so as to render its
transfer more easy, anti to make way for a new set of pro-
prietors. It was by a total revision of the law of landlord and
tenant. The evils of Ireland were social evils, and therefore
he must say that he thought the conduct of Government had
been marked by great indiscretion. When the Lord Chan-
cellor of Ireland took upon himself to dismiss all those magis-
trates who professed the doctrines of repeal, he committed
what was worse than a crime—he committed a great political
blunder—for if any one thing more than another set
the peasantry against the Bench, it was that dis-
missal. The Government had also committed another error,
which was recalled to his mind by some observations made the
other night by an Hon. Member. It was complained that the
Protestant ascendancy in Irelard was gone. Let the House'
look at the long panel in 1 ipperary. That county was quiet
enough in the time of Lord Normanby, but that was attributed
to We toadying the great agitator. The conduct of the Go-
vernment with regard to the grand jury was much to be com-
plained of. In 1839, there were on the long panel in Tip-
perary 118 Catholic gentlemen, and 100 names were on the
list. In the year 1844 that number had decreased to 43, and
the names on the list were only 10 in number. In 1846 they
had dwindled down to 17, and the names on the list were
only 5; and at the last sessions, out of two or three Catholic
gentlemen, only one was emparmlled. That gentleman was
decidedly a man of considerable worth and respectability ; but
why were other gentlemen, of equal worth and respectability,
omitted from the grand jury. If the Hon. Member for
Tipperary were not then in the House, he (Capt. Bernal
0-borne) would attest to his worth, and yet he was not on
the ge and "jury in consequence of his political opinion. There
were also two Members siding near him to whom similar
circumstances had occurred. Was it possible, therefore, for
the peasantry of Ireland to look upon the law in any other
light than a one-aide and prejudiced judge? In undertaking
to second the motion brought forward by the Hon. Learned
Gentleman, he could not say that he participated in all his
sentiments, of which, however, he admired the sincerity and
genius. He di i not agree with his (Mr. O'Connell) opinions
as to the separation or the English and Irish Legislature. He,
as a re,ident is the country, did no' think that repeal was a
oanacea for its evils, but at the same time let him warn the House,
;hat in passimc a measure of a coercive character, that it must
ake into account, first, the power they gave the ,Honourable
Gentleman to continue his agitation for repeal, and the effect
that the measure would have on the public mind. Let the
House discuss it as they might. Men of all parties in Ireland
were discontented with the English Government They said
that it was ignorant of the Irish interest, and indifferent to
to their prej :dices. What was the effect of Lord Grey's
Bill ? It drove many moderate men into the ranks of the
repeaters. He (Captain B. Osborne) was favourable to the
maintenance of the union, but he mast say, that if the union
was only to be maintained by such measures of coercion, he
would rather see it at once repealed. He lamented that the
Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of the Government,
who had shown himself on a question of commerce able to
shake himself from the trammels of party, consented to take
the old and oft-repeatsd story of Irish disturbances. The
Honourable Gentleman had told the House that there
was an evil genius in the t abinet. That genius was of an
orange hue, and its spirit yet clung to the system of Govern-
ment in Ireland, and secretly encouraged coercive measures.
Whatever p iwer the Hon. Gentleman might possess over the
Government, he (Captain B. Osborne) called on the House
not to be het away by a measure which would entrench on the
tights and liberties of his Irish fellow subjects. —( Cheers. )
Mr. S. HERBERT said that he would not revert in any
way to the private nip•es the Hen. Gentleman had just intro-
duced. He would speak with great respect of all opinious ad:
vaneed in that House by any gentleman who had spent a part
of his time in Irelsnd, and who had done his duty in that
country towards the tenantry under him ; and, in
allu iing to any party expressions of the Honourable
Gentleman, he assured him that he did so without any
disrespect, or in the least degree disparaging the
county which he represented. He hoped that every Member,
in entering on this discussion, would adopt the calm and tem-
perate manner used by the Hon. Gentleman in bringing it for-
ward. He regretted that these party topics had been introduced,
and he would not allude to them further than to say, that as far
as he was concerned, whatever station he held in that House,
nothing would induce him to assist in making Ireland a theme
for such discussions. He was a landlord himself and took an
interest in the welfare of the country. lie took the warmest
interest in its fate and misfortunes, and he could truly say that,
being a willing and a warm party to the measure before the
House, he held opinions adverse to any rigorous treatment of
the country. No man was more warmly and more reasonably
an advocate of this measure, which he believed
and hoped woul a ultiweately introduce better feelings
between parties In Ireland, and assimilate different classes, to
the prosperity of the country. In the speech of the Hon.
Gentleman I had hoped that the intention of meeting this
measure by delay had been given up. In the speech which hail
just been delivered, the Hon. Gentleman rather seemed to be
to
dd
for the unopposed first and sec and readings, reserving the dis-
cussion
not
tustan
maketh the applicability of
betweenwtheeisn Billthts
Billtodaiffnedrethnet
classes.
e
liufor the third. It would be for the convenience of the
other Bills brought in under different circumstances. In no
observation of tie Hon. Gentleman who had spoken was there
.
the least attempt to deny the case of
o
the Government rested the necessity- of
thetehmeesreßgielin.ey
Tonhewstate-
ment made by his Right Hon. Friendonly allegation
on
Secretary for the
gati
Home Department remained unchanged.
made was that which was made by the Hbeo n
which seemed to prove that the state of society cnr. ent
la r
Gentleman,was
not so much disorganised as it was represented to be.
The state r,: society was such in Ireland that the greatest
&faulty exi,te,l in regard to the obligation of leases; and the
sub-div.shon of land into small portions was enforced in such a
mariner as produce the wotst results. If this system went on,
the inevitable result would be that the land would be rendered
valueless, and its whole produce swallowed up by the residence
he, that man, must suffer.
of thingst, and struggles against it,
functions of a landlord unless he
upon it. If any man sets himself up in opposition to this state
No man would perform the
lattire.—( Hear, hear.) But his object was to show in answer
had the consideration and enjoyed the protection of the Legis-
to the statement of the Honourable Gentleman opposite, how
far this Bill would go to protect the poorer cla.res, It was
said that it was a law for the benefit of the landlords,
to protect the strong instead of the weak, the rich
in their oppression over the pour. In answer to that
he thought he would show that the principle murders com-
mitted in Ireland. and the ow rages that took place, were not
upon oersons in the higher rank, of life, but amongst the poor
and defenc. testi. Especially was this the case in the midnight
ai tack's, against which this Bill was intended more espeenally
to provide, and its provisions would be found of more value to
the poorer classes than those for whom it was sa d to be pro-
posed. The rich man could b irricade his doors and windows,
and, with the asi-tance of his arms and servants, stand a siege
against the midnight assassin'; but the poor man's life was
exivired without the least. protection. His wretched cabin,
without windows, and vi ith scarcely any covering offered
no resistance ainst the . midnight inc .ndiary. He
had no servants to stand by him, and the thatch of his
cabin offered an easy prey to the flames. It ought
theiciore to be distinctly bonne in mind that the night clauses
of the present Bill offered the greatest protection to the poor,
I and proved that the accusation urged so strongly against the

Bill, that it was a landlords measure, was not founded in the
truth. There was a case represented by a gentleman whose
anthority was unexeeptional!e, Mr. Nagle, a stipendiary ma-
gistrate, who des e Hied the attack made upon a person of the
name of Clark, which oceurrcd in the county of Tipperary. The
landlord was riot here a victim, but the victim was a farmer,
who took a piece of land, which offended a party who had
previously occupied it; and because the landlord had placed
him in it, the disaffected party took steps to wreack his yen-
geariee against this poor person. He was a well-disposed
and industrious workman, yet that did not protect him from being
attacked, and the cultivation of the land was eontequently sus-
pended. That part of Ireland where this and similar out-
rages took place was greatly in the want of capital. But if
such a state of things was to continue, how could they exits&
the surplus capital of the country to be expended there. If
capital was expended, it would, no doubt, greatly increase the
imports, and add to the improvements of Ireland, but it would
not come while such outrages took place, and such an organiza-
tion was in ex stence as permitted F ucli proceedings.—(Heir,
hear.) He would refer to another place in the county of Clare,
in which a party of armed men entered a house and discharged
a blunderbuss in the face of the person who occupied it, besides
otherwise abusing him in a brutal manner. There were four
men parties to this attack, and it arose because seven years pre-
vious to that perio.l one of those who committed the present out-
rage had been ejected from this piece of ground. This person was
identified by those in the cottage who had been subjected to
the attack. He (Mr. Sydney Herbert) was indebted to this
information to Mr. Bailey. the resident stipendiary magistrate
of Clare. Another case had been furnished to him tMr. Sydney
Herbert) lay one of the head-constables of the county of
Limerick, of a person who was waylaid by five or six men at
night, when returning from the market, and abused in a very
serious manner, arising from a similar cause to that which
01 iginated in the one he had previously referred to. What he
wanted to show was, that the peasants under the unhappy state
of things which at present prevailed, were liable, not only to be
attacked in their houses, but on their going backwards and for-
wards to the markets. The person to which he had just re-
ferred had been placed on a plot of land by his landlord, to
whom he had been a servant, and after occupying it for some
time he gave back the land, intimating that he durst not retain
it or go to work upon it. Yet the man had been a faithful
servant, and both the landlord and tenant were Catholics.
All these cases bore on the point that this was a law for the
protection of the poor. Du not let it be said that it was a Bill
to protect the magistracy or the landlords. How many of the
murders committed were uron the magistrates of Ireland ?
( Hear, hear.) Very few indeed. Few in comparison to those
that happened among the poor. In the five counties where
these outrages took place to the greatest extent, this would be
found to be the case. In looking over the returns of
crime and outrage in those counties, he found
that, while the number of flaunters was equal,
there were 85 cases of firing at persons, 135 cases of incen-
diarism, and 1,042 cases of threatening notices, amongst the
holders of land. How few were the cases in which the pro •
tectlon of the landlords was required compared to these.
He did not deny but that the measure would afford the pro-
prietors of laud some protection, hut the poorer classes would
be found to derive the greatest benefit. His Right Hon.
Friend (Sir J. Graham) gave a case, the other night, in illus-
tration of the state of society in 1832, and the benefits de-
rived from the former measure. He (Mr. S. Herbert) would
beaftotrhe thematpe another
riod.ln
societypla
eliBl3l illustration r
thetion respecting t
a
teof thin
things
e statei
in some
of
counties was as bad as it now is in the five counties corn-

plained of. The illustration he would give was that furnished
by Chief Justice Bushe, in his charge to the grand jury of
Queen's County. (The Right Hon. Gentleman here read the
extract, which was to the effect that outrages prevailed to a
great extent ; that the plunder of arms was widely practised ;
that witnesses were terrified from giving evidence, and juries
eeterr.d from the performance of their duty on toe pain
of death.) The Lord Chief Justice further said, that
this state of things was attributable to the agrarian feelings
that prevailed, and not from the pressure of want or poverty
of those who committed the outrages. He could not recollect
an instance in which want or poverty was the instigating
cause. This was the state of society according to Chief
Justice Rube in 1832. The Hon. and Learned Member for
Cork ( sir. 0 Connell) said that the measure was only a
revival of the old Tory system of governing Ireland, and that
the previous measure had nit succeeded in its objects. He
(Mr. Sydney Herbert) must say that as far as the experience
of the Act of 1832 went there was every reason to be satisfied
of it. operation. So far from it being inefficient, it had pro-
duced the greatest good.—( Hear. ) However much the
public of Ireland disliked the measure, it was found to give
security to life and property, which did not exist before it was
renewed is 1834, and again in 1836. If th. y had read the ac-
counts furnished in 1834 by the inspector-general of police of
Ireland, they would see the effect of the Act had been most
salutary. It had not been rigidly applied, yet as far as
it was carried out it was entireiy successful. Mr.
Green, a resident magistrate of Kilkenny, addressed a letter
to Lord Melbourne, showing the beneficial results that had
flowed from the measure. According to returns of outrages
furnished from the Ist April, 1832, to April, 1833, the num-
ber of cases was 1,590; from April, 1833, to the corresponding
period in 1834, there were but 331, showing a diminution of
1,259. There was one county, Queen's County, which was
more disturbed than almost any other county in Ireland, yet
after the operations s f that Act a great physical and moral im-
prov ment took place, and a state of general prosperity ensued.
He hoped that the House would clearly understand this, that of
the outrages committed, the greater number were outrages
c ,mmitted in the humbler walks of life; and that in but few
instances, comparatively sdeaking, would this law be necessary
for the higher classes of society. —( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
He hoped that, in asking them to give their assent to the mea-
sure they would consider the necessity that made such excep-
tionary laws necessary, and that nothing but the strongest con-
siderations could suffice to render such an enactment
justifiable.—( Hear.) He would ask them, with a due
consideration of their duty, what it was best for them
to do? Was the country and the people to be deprived of all
security, and divested of the benefits which a free nation ought
to enjoy ? \Vas not that a state of things with which it was
proper for them to interfere, where crime was committed with-
out any strong motives of provocation, and every tone and
phase of society operated to a fearful extent upon the industri-
ous tenant, as well as the proprietor of land. Every well-dis-
posed man was interested in an end being put to this state of
things—a system of terror and outrage which operated not in
proportion to the number of persons attacked, but to the
amount of alarm and fear that was generated and diffused. Let
them look at the effects produced by such a terrib'e tyranny as
this—a tyranny under which a person who goes out is subject
to be waylaid and attacked; or when sitting in his house, to
have a blunderbuss directed against hislife ; end which not

only operates against the individuals so assailed, but by the feel-
ings of alarm and intimidation it creates, leads to a genera
derangement of society.—( Hear, hear.) Such was a state
of things that ought not to exist. Under such
a system, when a man goes abroad, he knows not what danger
may assail him in his progress; conscious perhaps that he has
an accuser whom he cannot see, yet who is judge and jury in
his case, and only seeks an opportunity when the executioner
whom he may employ shall carry his mandate into effect. It
is a dreadful state of things, when a mins knows that he is ac-
cused by an unseen party, whom he cannot confront, but whom
he knows watches his naovemnnts, and against whom he is
neither safe in his journies by day, nor in the walls of his cot-
tage by night.—(Hear hear.) He found that these outrages
were inflicted in some cases, because a person was in possession
of land from which another individual had been ejected some
seven or eight years before, and this was done, although the
present possessor had no previous knowledge of his
landlord. Surely under these circumstances, the House
would not object to a suspension of the law in
these districts. He considered it a most fortunate
circumstance that this state of society was confined to a small
area in Ireland. He was glad to find that it was confined to
Westmeath, and its neighbouring counties, but that only fur-
nished the stronger reason why Government should interfere
to restore order. He trusted that ths House would look fairly
into that matter ; he trusted that they would not be led away
by any specious declarations about curtailing the liberty of the
subject. Why, what they, the Government, wanted, was to
restore security to, not only the higher, but to the very hum-
blest classes in Ireland. He trusted, therefore, that the House
would not reject this Bill by refusing to accede to iis first read-
ing. The Government asked them to grant this first reading,
but if it could be shown that those evils did not exist, it was in
the power of Hon. Members to do so. It they had exaggerated
the evil, it was in the power of Hon. Members to point out
where that exaggeration existed. If they thought that
that I3ill was inapplicable to the peculiar cir-
cumstances of the case, they were bound to
show wherein the inapplicability consisted. All he
requested the House was not to mix up this question with
remedial measures for Ireland, which all parties wished to see
carried into effect, but which should be held quite distinct
from this occasion. It was universally admitted that these
outrages did not arise from a religious feeling ; it was ad-
mitted also that this was not what might be termed a religious
measure ; it was certainly not a political one, because men of
every shade of political opinion felt that there was a necessity
for its being immediately brought into practice. He hoped
that no Hon. Member would allow himself to be carried away
by the argument that, because they could not trace these evils
to anything in the social condition of Ireland, they should post-
pone the measure until they had discovered that origin. Why,
if the House were to grant every concession, they would find a
repetition of all these evils; unles. they were to be in the
first instance checked by the strong hand, other grievances
would spring up. What they wanted at present
was to give protection and liberty, not only to
landlords, but to the poorer classes of Ireland, who did look
to Government as the source from whence they were to receive
some protection from the evils under which they were labour-
ing, so that they might pursue their industry—the true staple
of the country, upon which, more than upon legislative enact-
ments, the prosperity of Ireland depended.—(Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL then rose and said—Sir, I rise with
deep anxiety, for the purpose of supporting the measure intro-
duced by the Right Bon. Baronet; an-I it is with great satis-
faction that I do so, because the spi eches which have been
made on this subject, beginning with the Right Hon. Baronet
the Secretary for the Home Department, to those members of
the Government who had spuken last in the discussion, I
readily confess that when cases are brought before us of the
many crimes committed in Ireland—crimes of a dreadful cha-
racter, committed in different counties—that we by our union
with Ireland have taken upon ourselves the responsibility of
legislating for them, I admit that we are bound to afford
potect.ion to life on the one hand, without un-
every due
necessarily infringing on the liberty of the subject on
the other. ( Hear, hear.) Such was the burden
upon them by the terms of the union, and that burden they
to bear., Now, when the Right Hon. Gentleman
were bound
tells me that he wishes this Bill to be read a first time—when
he lays that he thinks he has stated sufficiently at length this
narrative of crime to induce the House to accede to Vie first
reading—l do, Sir, agree with him so far, that I think, also,
that the first reading of this measure may be, taken ; but in
"on so, I do not hold myself relieved from the responsibility
of stating, that so far as the Government measure is to be ad-
mitted. that is a question hereafter for this House to decide.
Looking to the Bill itself, there are many clauses in it which,
in to be rectified ; and therefore, although'
in my opinion,
this House should consent to the first reading of the Bill, I
think myself bound to state that, it: the further stages of the
I shall have objections to offer •
whtch will
measure,go to the
foundation of some of its princpal provisions I do not
l in
blame the Government with that w ; •
not, perhaps, be very
crime they might
wel
ablehllrcehltaond. avolind —myl
mean the increase of
views these crimes are connected with a social condition of
Ireland ts hieh has arisen from time to time—which has exhi-
bited a formidable front at several periods, ranging from eighty
years ago. Soon after the reign of George IIL, crimes of this
kind first attracted the attention of the use, but the causes
of these crimes were so doubtful that we ourselves had never
considered what was the proper remedy for the disease. At
this moment every species of crime seems to b e committed in
that unhappy country ; but when we ask chat is the remedy to
be applied, I own that the experience of all reflecting indivi-
duals seems to be that w
e ought nsor, I
titebiehsnalisfied with measures
merely of a coercive nature. that when we con-
sider that Legislative Acts of this nature have been enforced from
the time of Gprge I. _when measures were passed to restrain
Waltham.—it deer stealing in the neichbourhood of am—
it is impera-
tive on this House to adopt measures, however severe they
may seem, to restrain the outrages which have been exhibited
to this House in such vivid colours. These outrage have gone
beyond the enactments which had already existed,
we e
lt ought Murders
to
have been committed, but I still think that
sufficient grounds before we exact the p think
the; we ought to have sufficient indications of thena penalty.
Take
the example of persons who have been found with their faces
blackened, and with deltructiye arms 19 their hands i thesel

combined with other circumstances which tended to show that
they were engaged in unlawful conspiracies which connected
them with the White-boys, induced the Irish Parliament to
pass a law rendering such proceedings illegal. They ought,
surely, to have some indications which would tend to compro-
mise pariies before they rroceeded against them. They ought
not to take slighter indication. of crime than had been taken
at former periods. When such Bills as that before them, cr
Bills of a similar character had been passed fer the purpose of
restoring peace in Ireland, it was necessary that the
district so affected should be proclaimed by the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland, for many instances had occurred where
many innocent persons had been transported and imprisoned
for a length of time. But it is usual for persons, in many
districts of Ireland, to be out after sunset in winter, autumn,
and spring, for purposes that no one can blame them for. It
may be that their cattle have war.dered, so that they are re-
qiiired to be seen after, that their fences are broken ; it
may be that they are attending a wake, or the funeral of one of
their friends or relations; and are we to punish these persons
because they, under these circumstances, are out after sunset?
Under all these circumstances persons are very liable to be out
after sunset ; and are they to be taken up by the police, to be
brought before a magistrate, and, unless they can show that they
have been out for a lawful purpose—are they to be committed
by the magistrate for trial ? I think that the Bill may be
amended so far that indications may be required to show that
persons found out after sunset, before they are punished, must
have meditated a crime. Sir, I wish this clause to be ex-
pressed in a totally different manlier from what it is at pre-
sent. I should wish that the clause would specify
persons out under "suspicious circumstances," which
would justify the magistrate in committing them.
With respect to other parts of the Bill—with respect to those
which enable the Lord Lieutenant to impose a rate on persons
with the view of paying an increased constabulary, I think that
is a wise matter to be considered in Committee. I know that
some objections have been made to that, yet I think it is de-
sirable to have an increased constabulary in those disturbed
districts, and that it is desirable the Bill should go to the Com-
mittee for the purpose of considering that clause. Bet, now,
Sir, there is another question arises, and upon this subject I
cannot but refer to the Bill as it was originally introduced. I
hold in my hand a paper, published in this town, giving an
account of the five stages of this Bill, as passed by the House
of Lords. I cannot but remark, that when this Bill was first
introduced, it was of a permanent character, and contained no
clause by which its duration should be limited. Sir, it has
beendtiewgur
degree
emh
connected
fortune
Id i
d n
not
hod a
with
itihnl
interfere
ther fes
riteuaat
Governmentciot
actually
ai
ir which
lly I
in
o f
tlhrae was
thnGd to, o a
Government,
enr
ncweiniri
eti
which,
t:
I considered myself responsible for that Government,
and I took care to be informed of every

step that was taken with respect to it. Now, during that time
I agreed to a Bill of a similar character to the present, but I
agreed to it in the persuasion that means would be found of so
executing the law—of so administering the Government of
Ireland, that it would not be necessary to put that Bill in
operation. The Bill of 1835 is the one to which I allude. I
do not remember whether any case whatever occurred in which
that Act was put in operation during the five years which it re-
mained in the statute-book. The Right Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last said, that confidence was a plant of slow
growth on subjects of this kind. I quite agree with the Right
Hon. Gentleman in that statement, and it was being convinced
of the soundness of that opinion that I agreed to any measure
of this kind. But during the time in which Lord Normanby
was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland—in which my Noble Friend
near me (Lord Morpeth) was Chief Secretary for Ireland, and
Sir Michael O'Loghlin, Chief Justice O'Grady, and Chief
Justice Wolfe, held distinguished situations, as law officers of
the Crown ; it was their endeavour— and I had the satis-
faction of rather witnessing than superintending their
endeavours—and I had the satisfaction of witnessing
their earnest, patient, and continual endeavours, in connexion
with my lamented friend, whose memory I shall ever hold in
I respect—l mean the late Mr. rumniond—and I had the satis-
faction of seeing their efforts from day to day inspire confidence
in the ordinary administration of the law—to induce the people
of Ireland to believe that if those quarrels, which they are apt
to dispose of by a bloody arbitrement, were brought into the
courts of law, they would have justice ; and that by that means
the ordinary power of the Constitution would be sufficient in
Ireland, as it was in England. I had the satisfaction of think-
ing that, in a great measure, these efforts succeeded—(Cheers)
—that although in the short period during which the attempt was
made, it did not succeed in giving that perfect confidence, and
that constant reliance on the power and impartiality of the law,
yet a great progress was made in establishing that which I
think was a stable foundation of the future welfare of Ireland.
The Right Hon. Gentleman' 'who has just spoken, has de-
nounced, or rather protested, against all party allusion on
this subject. The Right Honourable Gentleman, and those
who act with him, did not always do so.—( Cheers.)
I was rather astonished at a speech said to have been deli-
vered by the Right Hon. Gentleman to his constituents, in
which he stated that the late Government had left Ireland in a
state of insurrection, and the endeavours of the present Go-
vernment had restored it to tranquillity. I quite acquit the
Government of having, by any act of theirs, produced a state
of crime in Ireland, yet I cannot think that the Right Hon.
Gentleman did justice to our exertions, or that those who act
with him have ever fairly represented the state of Ireland as
it was under the late Administration. And, Sir, I was in
hopes that when that Bill of 1335 expired it would not be
necessary to ask for any other Act of a similar nature. lam
sorry to find that the Government at present do say that it is
necessary. lam sorry to hear that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man likewise protest against any mixture of questions of re-
meaial measures with the present Bill. Sir, I think that
there again is a serious, I had almost said a fatal, mistake. The
Government must be aware, connected as they are with a
party in Ireland which is but a small minority in that country,
that they should endeavour by every means to make
an impression in Ireland of their fairness and im-
partiality—( Hear, hear)—and they should have avoided
anything like a suspicion that they were not bringing forward
remedial measures at the same time that they bring forward
this measure. Observe this is not a Bill which they brought
forward on the first day of the session, and declared should
be passed hastily because it might be the means of preventing
murder. It is a Bill which we cannot pass for one, two,
three months and a half, or few months from the first meeting
Parliament. Ido regret that with a measure of this kind they
were not ready to introduce a remedial measure at the same time.
Allusion has been made to the Bill called the Coercion Act,

introduced under Lord Grey's Government, for which I, for
one, as an adviser of the Crown, was responsible. That was
a more severe measure than the present one. It was intended
to meet a very serious and calamitous sta'e of things. But
the Government that brought it forward were by no means
insensible to the necessity of remedial measures at the same
time that they introduced that measure of severity. It was
stated by the Right lion. Gentleman that Parliament met
on the 29th of January, and the Bill was introduced
ea the 2nd of February. The House will recollect that the
King's speech was not delivered until the sth of February.
Rut on the 12th of February, one week after the meeting of
Parliament, Lord Althorp introduced a measure which was a
great reform of the Protestant Church of Ireland, and ex-
empting the whole of the Roman Catholic community of Ire-
land from the payment of church cess, which was a great
grievance and burden to them. On another day Lord Al-
thorp declared his intention of bringing before Parliament a
Jury Bill which had been brought into this House in a pre-
vious session, and had been allowed to drop in the House of
Lords. On the occasion of the first introduction of the
Coercion Bill it was referred to by the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman who moved the amendment, and he asked Lord
Althorp what was his intention with regard to the remedial
measures. He said he had already stated several remedial
measures, but he trusted the House bad sufficient confidence in

him and would be ready to approve the measures which he
should introduce. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman was not

satisfied. He asked, what expectation there was of carrying
these measures in the other House of Parliament, and
Lord Stanley at once declared that unless the remedial mea-
sures were carried, there would be an end to the Government.
That was the spirit in which Lord Stanley, as a Member of Lord
Grey's Government, acted. I cannot, therefore, approve of
the declaration of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that we are to
pass this measure, and that as remedial measures were matters of
difficulty, they should not be considered. There was another
decimation made by Lord Althorp, which some how or other
seems to have fallen into forgetfulness in those who were then
his colleagues. It was a declaration with respect to the Muni-
cipal Corporations of Ireland. Lord Althorp proposed a Com-
mittee, and said that from that Committee a Bill had been
introduced for the purpose of reforming the corporation of
Scotland, and he hoped to refer the corporation of England
and Ireland to the tame Committee. He gave the reasons for
referring the matter to the same Committee, and the first rea
son was that it was exceedingly desirable that the two countries
should be assimilated as much as possible, and as a general rule

to confer the same rights with respect to the corpiirate bodies
in Ireland, as those bodies possessed in England. That was
the simple and plain, but emphatic and decided declaration of
Lord Althorp. Then on the 14th, two days after, he had intro-
duced his measure for the abolition of the church cess, and eight
days before the Coercion Bill in that House. I find
that Mr. O'Connell said he knew of no greater
grievance in Ireland than the existence of the Corporations in
question, and nothing was more satisfactory to the people of
Ireland than the approaching certainty that the grievance
would be redressed. That was in the year 1833, thirteen years
ago, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman declared his confi-
dence that the grievance was about to be redressed. There
was a commission appointed on that subject in 1836, and the
measure that was introduced was passed in this House, but
thrown out, I think, in the other House of Parliament. Three
or four years were taken in the discussion of the measure, and it
is yet incomplete. After all the promises made to the people
of Ireland at the Union and afterwards have been broken, it is
now only in the year 1846, that the Right Hon. Baronet has
promised that the Corporations of Ireland shall be placed on the
same footing as those of England. I say that that does
showarveeartydgergeraete justifytardine the
steo do justice
whichetorelis Ireland. Does
i whent not
in a
you declare your wish to legislate for the good of Ireland—
when you declare that you are as anxious fur the good of Ire-
land as the Irish themselves, and that the pri-
vileges of Englishmen you are ready to communi-
cate to our fellow subjects on the ether side the Channel.
Sir, there is another important question, on which, perhaps,
I should hardly have alluded, if the Government had not be-
come debtors to Ireland upon it. The Government appointed
a Commission to inquire into the tenure of land in Ireland.
That Commission took journeys through Ireland, and evidence
was obtained, and it was known that recommendations were to
be made, and I believe that every person expected some
remedy would be given to the existing relations of landlord
and tenant. That any Bill that Parliament can pass can so
regulate these relations that there will not be much to be left
—the greater part to be left—to the justice and sense of fair-
' ness, and moderation and good sense of the landlords in the
first instance, and partly of the tenant, no man can deny.
Why, this a ate of things makes it absolutely necessary that
the Legislature should do all they can. It is necessary, in the
first place, that where remedies can be given by legislation,
that legislation should be given. Then all that you can do in
the way of prevention of crime, and taking away the cause of
crime by any power Parliament possesses, should be done
on the proposition of the Government, and by
Bills laid with their consent, and framed under
the direction, of the Houses of Parliament.--( Hear, hear. )
I say, I trust, Sir, that before the second reading of this Bill is
proposed, a Bill will be laid upon the table of this House with
respect to the law of landlord and tenant, from which we
shall be enabled to gather what are the intentions of the Go-
vernment upon this subject. In asking this, I think lam ask-
ing no more than Lord Althorp and Lord Stanley were ready
to propose when they rendered themselves responsible for the
severe Coercion Bill of 1835. I was not then disposed to
shrink from the responsibility of a Coercion Bill, as I thought at
the time it was necessary for the purpose of preventing murder.
I had no other feeling in acceding to the provisions of that
measure, but. I am not convinced that it is necessary that you
should have similar provisions in the Bill to be proposed at the
present time. 'think that the Bill, with other provisions more
resembling those Acts which have passed with respect to the
crimes of this nature, both in England and Ireland, would be
more effectual for the purpose, and would be less liable to ex-
cite irritation and discontent, which are the very things they
ought to avoid. Let us recollect that in legislating upon this
subject—although we agree with the Right Hon. Baronet,
the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and the
Right Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the Hbusa, that
there can be no more serious evil to the poor, as well as to the
rich, than the prevalence of the organized bands, who take the
case of every man, rich and poor, into their decisions, and
before whose secret tribunals cases are not weighed in the
I scale of justice, but dashed down and decided by the hand of
the assassin—while we agree that there can be no greater evil
than this, yet in legislating for Ireland we moist not forget the