The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-19 00:00:00

POOR-LAWS.

Capt. PECH ELL presented a petition from a place in Sussex
complaining of the conduct of certain boards of guardians. The
Hon. and Gallant Member gave notice that on Thursday he
should move that the petition be printed with the votes with
the view of founding a motion upon it.
tBINGLEY POOR HOUSES.
Mr. FERRAND said that he had been requested to post-
pone putting the question to the Right Hon. Baronet the First
Lord of the Treasury, of which he had given notice, respecting
the Bingley poor houses. He begged therefore to postpone the
questions to Thursday next, on which day he should put them.

THE GAME LAWS.
Mr. WILLIAM MILES, in the absence of the Hon.
Member for Cheltenham, gave notice that to-morrow it was
the inteoth,n of the. Honourable Member to ask the
Hon. Member fir Athlone whether he had lodged affidavits in
the hands of the Secretary of State with regard to Sir Charles
Taylor, and whether be intended to take further steps in the
case, or to allow this mtter to rest as it was?
LEAVE OF ABSENCE TO LORD CLEMENTS.
Colonel RA WDON rose to ask for have of absence for
fourteen days to Lord Clements. His Noble Friend was one
net in the habit of neglecting his Parliamentary duties, but his
neighbourhood in Ireland was in such a state that he was re-
quired to be on the spot in order to use his exertions to find
employment for the peon le.—( Hear. )—Leave granted.
PREVENTION OF SMOKE.
Mr. MAKINNON gave notice that he would, on Tuesday,
the 26th instant, bring in a Bill for the prevention of smoke.
ROMAN CATHOLICS RELIEF BILL.
Mr. B. ESCOI 1' presented several pee ions from Oxford-
shire, in favotir of the Roman Catholics Relief Bill.
FREE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND,
Mr. FOX MAULE presented 115 petitions, signed by
14,000 personB, from various parts of Scotland, praying the
House to adopt some measures to enable the petitioners to ob-
tain sites on which to build places of worship.
Mr. P. M. STEWART also presented petitions of a similar
nature.
Mr. FOX MAULE then rose to move for leave to intro-
duce a Bill to enable Christian congregations in Scotian(' to
obtain sites for building places of worship, manses, and school-
houses.
.He would not then enter into any statements with
reference to the Bill. Not seeing either the Lord-Advocate
or the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State fur the
Home Department in their places, notwithstanding that they
were aware of his intention to introduce the Bill to-night, he
concluded, therefore, that they had no objection to the intro-
duction of the Bill.

Sir R. H. INGLIS wished to know what the Hon. Member
meant by the term religious congregations? The object of the
proposed Bill was to give to certain persons, describing them-
selves as Christian congregations, the power to take a certain
portions of their neighbours property. It was to enable Chris-
tian congregations to take their neighbours property at fixed
prices, and before he gave any such power, he would like to
have some further statement respecting it.
Mr. FOX MAULE said that he was perfectly ready to go
into a full statement of his grounds for proposing this Bill.
But if the Government officers were willing to concede to him
leave to bring in the Bill, he would reserve the discussion upon
its principles till a future occasion ; he was perfectly willing to
abide by any proposition of the Government with reference to
this measure.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he had the most grave objec-
tions to the principles of the Bill, and he did not anticipate that
any exposition of those principles by his Hon. Friend on any
future occasion, would be able to remove those objections.
After what had been said in that House, in the course of a dis-
cussion on the subject of the Free Church. of Scotland, he
did not feel himself authorized in making any agreement
on the part of the Government, with his Hon. Friend. He
had, however, no objection to the Bill being read a first time.
The Bill was then read a first time, and the second reading
was appointed for Friday next.
CUSTOMS DUTIES BILL.
On the question being put that this Bill be read a third time,
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN rose to ask a question of the
Government with reference to agricultural statistics. During
the present Parliament, said she Hon. Member, he believed
in the year 1844, the question of agricultural statistics was
brought before the House by the Hon. Member for Miinhes-
ter, who was supported by the Hon. Member for North
Lincoln, than whom perhaps a more experienced agriculturist
did not occupy a seat in that House. The Hon. Member for
Manchester consented to withdraw his motion on the understand.
ing that her Majesty's Government would take some steps to ob-
tain an alteration in the mode of obtaining those statistics.
He believed that it was understood that the Government of
that day were unfavourable to the course which the Hon.
Member for Manchester proposed to pursue. But still there
was an impression prevailing that they would take the matter
into consideration, and under the difficulty that Hon. Member
was allowed to withdraw his motion. He tried an experiment
to get from the several counties information respecting the
actual facts of the case, but received the answers from only
27 of them. It would be recollected that Sir John Sinclair,
who was some years since at the head of the Board of Agricul-
ture' had endeavoured to obtain the same information also for
the Government. Sir John Sinclair prided himself on the

COMMONS' SUMMARY.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Pour o'clock.
Mr. CAMPBELL, from the East India House, presented papers
with respect to the pensions'granted lo Viscount HARDINGE
and Lord GOUGIE.

Mr. FERRAND postponed the question which he had
given notice of putting to the First Lord of the Treasury ,
relative to the Bingley Union, to Thursday next.
Mr. Fox MA ULE then moved, pursuant to notice, for leave to
bring in a Bill to enable Christian congregations in Scotland to
obtain sites for places of worship, manses, and school-houses.
He had intended to have gone at some length into the ob-
jects of the measure, but as he did not see the Lord Advocate of
Scotland, or the Home Secretary, in their places, he supposed
the proposition he had to bring forward was not objected to,
he should content himself with making the motion of which
he had given notice.
The motion having been seconded.

After some observations from Sir B. INGLis and Sir JAMES
GRAHAM, who came into the House in a few moments after,
Mr. Fox MAULE had made his motion for leave to bring
in the Bill—leave was given to bring in the measure.
After some obServations,
After some observations from Mr. Stafford O'Brien, Sir G.
Glerk, Sir B. Inglis, Lord G. Clerk, Mr. Bright, and Mr. W.
Miles, the Customs Duties Bill was read a third time and
passed.

Dr. BOWRING then moved, pursuant to notice, that an
humble address be presented to her MAJESTY, that the would
be graciously pleased to direct such correspondence or
extracts o:i. the subject of the quarrantiue laws as had taken
place with foreign Governments since the last returns to
Parliament to be laid on the table of the House.
( LEFT SITTING.)

IMPERIAL I'ARLIAIII-e,NT.
ILO USE OF LORDS, May 18.
THE CORN IMPORTATION BILL.
After a few words from the Puke of RICHMOND, who
denied that he had ever voted against the Reform Bill,
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he conceived
that it would be in better taste of their Lordships not to
indulge in any personal invective on this question, as to whe-
ther the Prime Minister of the country had changed his poli-
tical opinion. He had sat long enough in that House to see
those individuals who were now br.neing forward a question of
a personal nature repeatedly change their opinions. His Noble
Friend himself had repeatedly changed his position in that
House, and after that he should not judge the Prime Minister
for having deliberately conic to a judgment on this question
after a very long consideration. He would only say these few
words with reference to a statement made by the Noble Duke
with regard to suppressing all personal invective, which had
appeared in another case so disgraceful, and which he hoped
would not be found in that House.
The Duke of RICHMOND wished that the Noble Lord
who had spoken would practice what he preached. He gave
his opinion against personal invective, and then made a violent
attack against him (the Duke of Richmond). He (the Duke
of Richmond) had said that he did not wish to express any in-
vective against Sir R. Peel. He was very anxious to express
his opinion, because he was anxions not to bring into any part
of the second reading of the Bill any discussion of the present
nature, but he felt so strongly on the subject, that he thought
it right to speak at once. What he had at present stated was
not to offer any objection to the Bill ; he was merely anxious
that nothing should take place on the consideration of the
second reading of the Bill of a personal nature, and he had,
therefore, judged it right for all parties that 1:e should state
what be should feel:.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that he bad made
nolersonal attack on the Noble Duke. What he had said
was, that the Noble Duke should not make any present attack
on the Right Hon. Baronet, for the question they were to
consider was not his change of opinion.— (Cries of " Ob, oh.")
The Earl of RIPON said that he was very glad to hear
from his Noble Friend an expression of his intention to can.
duct the discussion, which they would have in the course of
next week, upon this important subject, on principles which, if
adhered to, would command the approbation of the House ;
viz., the absence of all personality. He was glad to be as-
sured that his Noble Friend had exhaled all his feelings on
the present occasion, and he was particularly glad to hear that
they were not likely again to have the same course of ob-
servation. He felt glad, partly on account of the feelings of
their Lordships, and partly on his own account.—(Laughte_ll?
He well knew the representations which would be made,b
he was prepared to meet them—he was prepared to meetthem
not only on his own part, but on the part of his colleagues,
inleagturee.s,
with whom be shared the awful responsibility
blicanaprivatenn flour,
Noble Friend talked of a dis-
and which he did not
duced this measure, and though my . . ,
it
n icst i
so nw
distinctionl c h latterly
wb prevails
ieb
hb
disregarded,pu
recognise. Nor did he
deserted
think hhe
twouldthe principle
r immaiipnitea ionf his
a man of honour if he public or pri-
vate honour. He therefore begged to state to his Noble
Friend—

Tis noterror,
in on
Cassius, in your
rythreats;
TFohhraetr theyle
am arm'd so strong
pass by me like the idle wind
Which 1 regard not." ,
Oved that it be printed.
TT
bh BDiul lkwe aosf t
NhveEn
Lr eLaldNaGfirst tNi mnei
Agreed to.
The Duke of WELLINGTON moved that it be read a
second time on Monday next.—Agreed to.
The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S presented several petitions
against the Charitable Trusts Bill.
The Earl of RIPON presented a petition from Trinity Col-
lege, Cambridge, to the same effect.
Lord COTTENIIAM presented a petition from the trustees
of a Wesleyan chapel to the same effect.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition, very numerously
(and respectably signed, from a society of Odd Fellows—
Langhter)—Ancient Foresters, Old Friends, and others, near
Stratford, to the same effect. They petitioned against the
Bill which had for its object the prevention of the mismanage-
ment of their own trusts—(Laugltter)—and it was very natu-
ral they should do so.
Petitions were presented against the Charitable Trusts Bill
by Lord Stanley, from Manchester; the Earl of Fortescue and
Lord Wharncliffe, from Sheffield ; the Earl of Eldon and the
Marquis of Normanby.
Lord CAMPBELL in preventing a similar
said that hitherto 258 petitions had beetsts presented
against against the Bill, and only
one was from the town of ScarboroughulieaeenirdotTpienoiotinhgerbyfrostmattinghe
Corporation of Hull, {NIIO summed
.1)
.0.
wacinutitm.
that thy In!!/4"114-=
Die itrltnrivi) tp

FREE CHURCH.
The 4arl of ZETL AND presented several petitions fry
the inhabitants of Scotland, complaining of the difficult,'
which members of the Free Church experienced in obtaining
sites for their churches.
r're—adi
meLaosurdreßwEhAieUh Awl.oasN
Lincolnshire.
CHARITABLE TR'
abeg:.;rtsot
thisptirmeseent a pneigtihttio,nfraogmainNstotrhthe
rSTS BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR ss'id,
that in rising
felt
move the second reading of the Charitaiele Trusts Bill
,H
had
that he had not a very agreeable task to perform'
had an opportunity of explaining in detail
the nature of the
measure, the principles on awhich it was foundesi.
and the evils
which it was intended to remedy, and he confeesed it
was no
pleasing task to him to go over again the same ground,
and he feared that it would be a still less plea:slog task
to their Lordships. This was his only ground of discourage-
ment. In consequence of the extensive combination through-
out the country against this Bill, he felt a strong impression
against it had been made upon the minds of malty of their
Lordships. He recollected upon one occasion, in the House of
Commons, Mr. FA quoted the saying of a learneel individual
" Nunquaur magis libenter loquor,
Quam quiem quod loquor,
Auditoribus displacet."
He (the Lord Chancellor) need not make so pugnatiotes a com-
pliment to the individual to whom he refer: ed, and he Oh old feel
greatly discouraged if, upon this occasion, he had steeted
eany-
thing which would not have the, effect of gaining over their
Lordships in its favour. He would not trouble their Lorelsh;l4
ti
nder
which going into detail with respect to the circumstance
,
which this Bill was framed. Their Lordships, no dotro'
all recollected the Commission which was issued at the hns
stance of his Noble and Learned Friend. That Commission
sat for a long period of time, and made various e
reports with respect to the charities of this country,
and they concluded their reports by recommenti.'ng some efinB
lative measure, for the purpose of more effectually eontrot
0
the administration of charitable trusts. Before the reP".'tte,
rather before the last report had been finally issued, a Commit'
of the House of Commons was appointed, which was ceeoP°s
ej
of
of some of the most able, active, and intelligent Metobers.
that House, for the purpose of considering that report Which
had been given, and for the purpose of coming to some coul
elusion, and giving some advxe upon the subject. That
considers'
mittee finally reported, after much inquiry and touch cOnsidsi:o
tion, that it was necessary to appoint a permaneeit tonne? tat
charitable the purpose of superintendino the administrators '
I°o tore
trusts of the empire, and they recommenced a's erS
that Commission should be clothed with authorities aieel Plot
similar or analagons to those contained in the preset.trioro,
His Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for the .1-101
Department, acceded to the desire so generally expressed!,es,
requested him to prepare a Bill for the regulation of
charities. He undertook the task, and introduced a. Bill for
this purpose the session before last. At the request 0",,,
Noble Friend of his and of other Noble Lords he eensented
allow the Bill to stand over till the next session. Ample °Poi
e
portunity was by this means afforded for the considerate)n
the question in . all its details. It was read accordingly
second time last session, with the understanding that it sh„,co
be referred to a Committee for their consideration. al
Committee was composed of several Right Rev, Prelatesa
other Noble and Learned Lords, well qualified to examine .tio
all its bearings. The measure was canvassed day after Ittes
a length of time, and alter a long deliberation that Conon
ad
it
made its report. The Bill was then read a third time
passed, though some opposition was murmured against mit
his Noble Friend. It then went down to the other Houser:na
in consequence of the pressure of business there it "sc fooot
impossible to give it due consideration. After such sa° roe,
ula
after such a concurrence of opinion, he was at a loss to under'
stand the cause of the present opposition. What, he wo whet
ask, were the grievances which were complained of an" with
were the remedies proposed? He would, now
the permission of their Lordships, direct their attention leutotet
state of the question. Every one knew that dee only trii6ourt
before which such complaints could be brought Was the enee
of Chancery; no other tribunal existed that took eogn'-,",,,as
directed. The system of the Court of Chancery was
of those irregularities against which the present mssasure
adapted for these purposes. It had been presides/ over by
series of men eminent for wisdom and learning—( Hear, fees_e
—and were it not for one circumstance, he never should lea;
introduced a Bill of the present description. Unfortunatel
there were few charities over which the Court of Chancery 11.3.
control. No man of sane intellect would recommend fore,'
moment that a small charity should make any application '1;
the Court of Chancery for interference. Sir Samieel
endeavoured to remedy the evil, and he brought in a Bilf to
alter the law—but the alteration produced but a very s'itie
mitigation of the evil. Their Lordships might consider
,t_ o,
the evil was not very extensive, but he would inform
that there were 15,000 charitable trusts not exceediago.a.ini.,
&Societe;
;sear, .There were 18,000 charitable trusts ,'tot eaceedinr.
and there were 24,000 not exceeding 20/..- -( Hear, ,hear
eratoo
When he mentioned that to their Lordships, the; would when
see the necessity of adopting some remedy for the ewal• oake
he stated this case in general terms it was not possible s
so strong an impression on their Lordships as he
adverting to two or three instances—instances taken fro
ff. tit
reports of the Commissioners. He would take the case
on;
had been before mentioned, the case of Ashley, in the c
of Lincolnshire. That was a rent charge of 301., per rows,
a charity of no inconsiderable value, and whicarit;
something beyond the generality of these eb
rots.
The trustees died without assigning the the
The charity was founded as far back as the 16th century ;
erty,
rent charge was paid up to a certain time, and the Prtige
was sold, and the person who purchased it paid the rent c hone
shouldrado,,ise
for one or two years, until he applied to his solicitor, by vies eon
he was warned that he could no longer pay it with safety, 'lO.O
person could give him a proper discharge. The consolt's,oo
was, that no rent was paid, and the arrears ran on for , sonic
time, until at length somebody recommended that an .informs
tion should be filed. The cause was brought on in Clbentil
and a decision was given for the payment of the arrears, w",.,-0
amounted to 3751. The decree was made, and the cos
amounted to 4001. The costs amounted to more than
e
funds they sought to recover. Was this a state of things t"-:
their Lordships would allow to continue, without applynig
remedy ? He would state another instance in which the Ve:l
tion was as to the administration of a charity, and in which
the parties were desirous of having the object promoted. Tor
was the case of Battle, in Sussex, in which ern old houseo%
mansion, which was left and nose falling into ru;n' %O'er,
and
the trustees undertook to sell, and to invest the pro
duce inP:r,
chasing in the stocks. The application was made co
to the The
r of Chancery, and the Master decided in favour of the Foie' di, of
produce was 1,350/., and the costs amounted to trloOrtion,
3,50'. That undefended suit, to which there was no oPP"iele
cost exactly one• third of the amount of the whole charity, "
%O
third was spent in proceedings to secure the purchese moor
or
of the property, and to which proceedings there was m'oes
position. The instance which he should further describe ~
leas
~e e
one attended with a similar result. It was a case of Isr•
granted to certain trustees, at a place called Lanford, in
sod it
The property was let to the trustees, at a rental of 6(11"oodere
was suggested by acme person that the property wa,,'
rated, and an information was filed in the Court of .-/.71 for
to investigate the transaction. The proceedings want ;°, and
a considerable time until both parties became tired Of
agreed to stay further proceedings, and each party to ale/ 6501.
own costs. The costs of those proceedings amounted ti' in'
Was it necessary that he should proceed further to atetel,6esi
stances, for he thought that those given had already sat",,
their Lordships that the administration of justice, however peon
it might be adapted in its machinery to these trusts, g'"'aels
calculated to do justice in the case of smaller charities, sitiot•
less in charities of a still smaller character—to the ii'lle°ol3l
perhaps of 51., 10/. or 20/. per annum, making a total aeijosi
value of 24,000/. He could multiply instances of that My
which could be quoted almost out of number' ors,
referring to the volumes of the report of the Commission br
It was not necessary for him to rely on general reasonieg'wei
would refer to the report-of the Commission. When he tit
9
theue that the Oommissioti recommended informations w-is
extent of 385 as the result of their inquiry even in the I_`.t
of larger charities, their Lordship could understand the extel4
of the abuses which exists din the smaller charities. He evo._oo..'
rifles to which he referred were those of Lord Kenyon Ea:,
of which no differon..,
call their Lordships to authorities on this subject. The auto j
Lord Eldon, with respect to the weight
could be entertained. LEoriddonK, eninyonlikseaidm,
atnhnaetr,whsacied:ri
jos':
amined the state of the grammar schools in the kingd°era
wou see th lamentable condition to which mast ,of tb
wore
c reduced
arit ies o f Lord
kingdom were grossly Inisma%list?
Would their Lordships kingdom were
state of things to Neil
Now, how were these trusts managed?be
h A charity Inig7bet
nesotapboliwsheredwbays
ganiveinndfiovriduraelnetwoing
trustees died, therefore, there wa
them, and that was by an applicatioeninti
pense that it was rarely followed ti
existed upon rent .charges, the trustees. when
oadn thea g managed
Courtby
rtoerfaticls thpearene:esshet;
thus escaped from meetings on y one mode of renewing
This proceeding, however, was attended with so mucloinertl
trusts
oper
c arges, the party holding the pro stn'
the liabilitiespan washitchesehasl bee
....or;
posed upon
him. Again,
in many instances
when the trustees died, there being " the
sponsihle parties to fund o.,ertyt
whom to transfer the pr/ had funds themselves
became forfeited. The Commissioners
sole
complained over and over again of this evil, while at the st of
time they pointed out the costly machinery of the Courrbed
Chancery, an application to which tribunal invariably , sbrnore
the whole of the funds. Now, what was the remedy' he se,
proposed ? What was the principle of the Bill ? iv,s, re'
tisfied that no other course could be
pursued, so far enis
lated to the principle of the Bill, than that which be „al,
adopting. They- must establish an independent tr-Sibuvr"ith
applicable to the administration of those trusts, "n' on
power to act and deal summarily with them. There v;o
other method of meeting the evil, except by establishing
independent tribunal, acting summarily, and doing leeir
where justice was due. In respect of small debts, the
.-70,
lature had already established courts of request actingbsekte
marily, and deciding upon the matters which came duo
them without resorting to the usual forms of legal prone
stes,
and he now asked their Lordships to apply the same al
to charitable trusts. By this Bill he proposed. therefore? ),,
three individuals should be appointed as the Charitable Ruff,
Commissioneis, whose tenure of office should be the same
that of the judges of the land, and who should havesoul,,
mary jurisdiction invested in them, and wbehe appointme;ie
should be at the disposal of the Lord Chancellor.
proposed that periodical returns of the receipts and disbars
ments should be made to the Commissioner, for he was sat
that if such return was made from year to year, it was the
security they could have against fraud or deception. Ii n
last session the Bill was thrown out in the other House, bed
cause it did not make certain exceptions to this provision ; Ist,
as he now felt quite certain that, without some of these excel',
tions were made, he had prepared a schedule for that pursos!:
which would be submitted to their Lordships in Commite°,l
He was still, however, of opinion that these exceptious we!,
reduce the efficacy of the measure.; -but as he was most arudon
Or it to Pitni he was roluotautiy ocospoilld to admit thomie

i
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