The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAII4EIT.
FIOUSE OF LORDS, April 3.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at
Five o'clock.

Lord MONTEA GLE ?aid he had received a note from his
Noble Friend—a Noble Marquis who usually sits at that side
of the Howe—expressing his regret at not having been able to
be present in the House last night to join in the vote of thanks
to the British army in India; but he had r,.‘quested of him
(Lord Monteagle) to state that he would put a queftlon to the
Government, to this effect, that he would Rich to know if any
further proceeding was intended to be taken ?

A NOBLE LORD whose name we could na bear, presented
a petition num.-rously signed by solicitors and attorneys,
against the Real Property, Deeds, Registration Bills.
Messengers from the Commons brcught up certain Pilk
Lord REDESD ALE: in pursuance (:1 the notice which he

had given yesterday, called the attention of the House to the
repent of the-Select Committee on the Great Western, the
Templersore, and the Tipperary Junction Railway Bills. Their
Lordships were aware that the proceedings on the Irish Rail-
way Bills had this session taken a rather novel course, inls-
much as they were introduced into their Lordships' House in the
first instance. It appet red that only ene of those Bills
was opposed, and eventually that 0, posit ion wa
withdrawn. The Committee appointed to inquire into
the merits of those Bills found it advisable to group
them, a proceeding usually taken by the other House.
He would, therefore, with their Lordships' permission, slightly
sketch the nature of the country through which these lines
were to pass in order that their Lordships might better under-
Vand why these Bills had been referred in a grcup to the
Committee, and not as separate Bills. It would be
remembertd that in a former session of Paiiarnent

two Bills had been passed, one called the South-Western, and
the other the Waterford and Limerick, which crossed the first
line, and so into Limerick. One of :he Bills he was now ad-
verting to came out of the South-Western, about half way
between Limerick and Dublin, and went down to the town of

Nenagh. The other, the Templemore, came out of the
South-Western, somewhat further down, and proceeded
on to Nenagh also. 'I he Limerick and Killaloe proceeded on
the left bank of the Shannon in the same district, and the
consequence was that this portion of country was supplied with
more railvrays than even the kusiest manufacturing districts of
England. Their Lordships would see that it was hardly pos-
sible that these lines could have a profitable traffic, and, indeed,
it was very questionable whether the communication at
present existing between Dublin and Limerick was not
amply sufficient for every one. . With regard to the Limerick
and killaloe and the Great Munster Railway, a singular ar-
rangement existed, namely, that if the latter line did rot buy
up the land required by them down the left bank of the Shannon,
power would be given to the Limerick Railway to commence
the construction of their works. By this arrangement the public
were left in doubt which of these lines would really be made.
He thought he had shown that this country could not main-
tain two lines; he, indeed, did not know the country suffi-
ciently well to say whether the town of Nenagh required a di-
rect communication with the South-Western or not, but it was
evident enough that a town of some 8,000 inhabitants could not
maintain two lines. He would move, therefore, that these Bills
be referred back to the Committee, with a distinct understand-
ing that the district should be taken into consideration in the
event of their passing one of the lines. Before concluding
these remarks, he would merely state his opinion that a
little mistake had arisen with respect to the propriety
of passing as many Irish Railway Bills as possible,
in order to give employment to' the people.—(hear.)
By having a multitude of Bills which were not of a profitable
nature it would be found that parties would not come forward
with the money when the calls were made, and the lines con-
sequeptly would not go on. So far, therefore, from its being
desirable to have many railway Bills for Ireland on the pound
of giving employment, he considered it desirable rather that
there should be few, and the few in each district
If there were already railways in course of construction in any
dis riot, it w,uld be desirable not to trouble them with any
more. That, however, was no ground for throwing out good
Bills that were bona fide profitable schemes, aid were brought
forward by persons of standing and respectability. He con-
cluded by moving that the Bills be referred back to the
Commit tee.
Lord KENYON, who had been Chairman of the Committee,
concui red iii the propriety of the motion which had beer, just
made by the Noble Lord. When the Bills had beer. referred
to the Committee, each Bill had been taken by itself,
which had been the course always pursued by the Committees
of their Lors'sh p's House. The Noble Lord had now stated the
objections why such a course should be interfered with, in re-
ference to those Bills. That Committee inv-sigated the
merits of the Bills, and reported the opinion they entertained
of them to their Lordships' House. Any mistake. however,
that had arisen was not chargeable to two Committee. tut rather
to their Lordships, who were the only parties to blame in the
matter. There was no doubt that it was important to find employ-
ment for the people of Ireland, hut, besides that reason, the line
proposed would form a complete connexinn with the city of
Dublin on the west of Ireland. If the Bills were referred to
the same Committee—and he could bear witness to the dili-
gence with which that Committee had attended to the
matters referred to them then they should receive
such instructions as to prevent their committing such a
mistake as they had done. fhey had got all the evidence neces-
sary for the liiPs already, and they should endeavour as far as
possible not to put the parties to any additional expense.
Lord HA WARDEN said there was no doubt that it was
important to supply that district of Ireland with railway ac-
commodation, but it should be done with due regard to the
commercial succi ss of the urdertakings sanctioned.
Lord BEAUMONT said it would appear frem the evidence
given before the Committee that these Bills were all useful
ones and that the more railways that wire made in Ireland the
better for that country. But then he would ask what could be
the use of sending these Bills back to the Committee? It
could be of no use unless additional evidence was to be had ;
and it was to be supposed that all the• evidence that could be
had was laid before the Committee in the first ins ante.
Lord MONTEAGLE said he looked upon this as a most im-
portant question, nor. only as it affected Ireland, but as it
affected the principle upon which the Legislature had
acted in reference to railway projects generally. Ho
thought that the public had a right to know upon what
grounds the Bills should receive the sanction of their Lord-
ships. He considered that the same sort of principle should
be acted upon in legislating upon private Bills, as in other cases;
they should consider whether it was right or wrong. He re-
gretted that some respon,ible body, such as the Board of
Trade, were not now in existence, to inquire into these matters.
Their report would be of great service in guiding the deci-
sions of the various Committees. He thought it was right
that those Bills should be recommitted, with a view of consi-
dering the relative claims which each had on the Legislature.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE said that, connected as he had
been with the Board of Trade last year, it was extremely gra-
tifying to find Noble Lords, and others in other places, now
anxious to scatter a few flowers upon the grave of that de-
partment.--( Laughter.) With respect to the question brought
before their Lordships, he thought he might venture to say
that it was not the intention of the Noble Lord who had
brought forward the motion, to cast the slightest censure on
that Committee—(No, no)—or to intimate that they had in
any degree fallen short of the proper discharge of their duties.
He ventured to say, that the impression was, because a railway
Bill had not. passed the Committee, it was, therefore, of ne-
cessity an injustice to the promoters. It was a part of the duty
of the Committee, who sat for the consideration of those
matters to say, not only whether the proj'ct would satisfy the
undertakers, but the public as well. The Noble Lord opposite
(Lord Beaumont) had asked the Noble Lord at the table
(Lord Redesdale) how the Committee were to ascertain the
facts of the case, they themselves being ignorant of that
part of that country ? He (Lord Dalhousie) did not think it
a matter of necessity that Noble Lords sitting on these Com-
mittees should themselves be acquainted with the particular
districts to which these lines had reference. The Committee
might have the promoters of the Bill before them, and they
might call upon them to produce evidence to establish the facts
related in the preambles of the several Bills. lf, for instance,
in the lines now before their Lordships, their Lordships thought
that the district would not supply a traffic to support two rail-
ways, then they might call upon the promoters to bring
witnesses to establish the fact that such a traffic
existed; and if they were not satisfied then, it would be their
duty to throw these Bills out altogether. Reference had been
made that evening, to a statement, purporting to have emi-
nated from that department of her Maj-say's Government
with which he had been once connected. Now, he begged to
say, that he had never laid it down as an axiom, that the
greater number of Bills passed the better for Leland. He
might say, on very good anthority, that even many of those
Bills which last session had been substantially supyorted,
and which hail the money to go on with, had not Yet laid a
spade in the ground, and did not intend to do so. • Many of
the shareholders were selling their shares at 2s. tid. each,
which was scarcely sufficient to pay the broker's fees. Ile
thought it desirable, that those Bills should pass which would
really benefit the district, but in this case he certainly
thought. that these Bills should be re-committed.
Lord REDESDALE raid, these lines were no more than
eight miles apart, and, in some places they were less than
three. He thought it would be better to re-commit the Bill.
Lord MONTEAGLE hoped that the reports of the Irish
Railway Commissioners would be referred to the Committee,
as they would find some valuable information in it.
The Bills were then ordered to be re-committed.
EVICTION OF TENANTRY.
The Earl of CLANCA RTY begged to call the attention of
their Lordships to a statement made a few evenines ago by a
noble Marquis (Londonderry) relative to an ejectment of
tenantry which had recently taken place in the County Ros-
common. The statement caused great sensation among their
Lordships. He had now, therehre, to state that he had re-
ceived a letter from a gentleman in Irelaisd, Mr. J. G.
Holmes, in reference to the subject, nhose letter he would take
the liberty of reading to their Lordships. (The Noble Lord
here read this letter, which called attention to Mr. Gerrard's
letter in Saunder's Arens Leiter, and suggested the appoint-
ment of a Committee of their Lordships to investigate the
circumstances.) Ile read that letter to show that the state-
ment made by the Noble Marquis was an ex parte statement.
He should abstain from reading Mr. Gerrard's leiter as that
also would be an ex parte statement.
call the attention of their Lordships to theli e i-hed merely to
matter, and hoped
they would suspend their judgment.. upon the case.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF I.ttitiMOAS, April 3.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock, and an-
nounced that he had received a report from the Examiner of
Recoguisanees, to the effect that the security offered for the
prosecution of the petition against the election at Bridport was
unexceptionable.

The Hoer. MEMBER also moved that it he an instruc-
tion to she Committee of Selection, to fix Tuesday the 7th day
of this instant April, for holding the first sitting of the Com-
mittee on the Chard Canal Railway Bill, and of that on the
Bridgewater and Taunton Railway and Harbour. And that i ••
be an instruction to such Committees to hear any petitioners.
against either of such Bills, although their respective petitions.
shall not have been presented to this House three clear days.
before the day appointed for the first meeting of such Com-
mittee, provided that such petitions shall have been so pre-.
tented before Tuesday the said 7th day of April.
The motions were severally put from the Cbair and agreed to..
C.‘LEDONIAN EXTENSION RAILWAY.
Captain JONES brought up tke report of the Committee
on this Bill.
Air. HAWES said he had a proposal to make to the Housee
having placed the following motion on the paper of the day. a
—"Oti bringing up the report from the Committee on the peel.-
tion tor leave to introduce the Caledonian Extension Itaitwaye
Bill, to move that the repot t be referred back to the said Com-
inittee to re consider the same, with an instruction to suck
Committee, that they do entertain the petition of William-
Maxwell Alexander and others, presented to the House on the
13th day of February last, and do hear the petitioners
by their agents and witnesses on the allegations therein*
contained." Of course it became his duty to make ouo
a ea-e for taking this course, and he hopisi
to do so satisfactorily. h appeared that a petition fro= .
a Air. Alexander, complaining of non-compliance with the
standing orders by the promoters of this Bill, was
duly presented, and was now on the table of the House. It
appeared that this petition was referred to the Committee. arid
at the same time there was another petition presented from at
person also named Alexander, and from others. Now, by sante
mistake, this petition had not been considered by the
Committee on the Bill.— ( Hear.) Under these eirteam-
stances, the petition having beer. presented within
the proper time, he thought there was gccel ground for
referrieg this Bill back to the Committee. 'I he only abjection
which he had heard to this course was, that there reenst have
been delay and negligence on the part of the petitioners. New
he had a letter in his possession which had been written by the
petitioners to Mr. Grahame, one of the agents for the Bill. In
reply to that letter, Mr. Grahame said be had searched
for the petition in the House, but had been unable
Ito find it. The only petition he could find was one by W. A.
1 Alexander, numbered 1,560 ; and it appeared that this was
the very petition referred to. Under these circumstances,
therefore,, he thought there was good ground for the motion
which he had made.
Captain JONES, the Chairman of the Committee, said the
petition of Mr. Alexander was considered by the/ Corn-
mittee. There was another petition by Air. Alexiva-
der and others, and that petition not having been
in the votes, it was not considered by the
Committee. It appeared that the petitioner bad never applied
to the Member who had presented the petition, nor to the
officer of the House having charge of it. Under these circum-
stances, the Committee could not consider the petition.
Air. HOPE JOHNSTONE said, there were pecu-
liarities relating to this case. It must be remembered
that those two Mr. Alexaralers were the same per-
sons. The petition, which was numbered 1,560 in the
office, was repeatedly compared be the agents for the Bill, and
it was not the petition of Mr. Alexander and others, but the
petition of Mr. Alexander alone. How that petition carne
there had never been explained. The whole affair ap-
peared to him to be involved in considerable
mystery. The number 1,560 had lately had an A
added to it, and another petition had been substituted ,
for 1,560. The promoters of the Bill bad had a large number
of witnesses from Scotland, and they had been sent back. It
would, therefore, be a great hardship for those witnesses to be
recalled in order to afford the petitioner an opportunity of
stating his cue. One petition of Mr. Alexander bad been
beard, and the other petition was that of the same indivfduals
There could, therefore, be no injustice in this case.
Sir G. CLERK said that, under the peculiar circumstances
of the case, he considered the parties would be entitled to $
hearing.
The SPEAKER observed that there had certainly been all
error in the votes, which had misled the agent, and the quote
tion for the House to consider would be, whether the parties is
were to suffer from the error of their officer'
As. HODGSON said that it the Hon. Member for Glasgotr
were in his place, he (the Hon. Gentleman) had no doubt but •
he would be willing to allow the parties to be heard at that
stage. During the time the parties had a large number of wit'
nesses in town at an expense of over 10111. per day, to prole .
their cause, and he then left it to the House to say whether or;
not thet were entitled to be heard.
Mr. P. Al. S I EWART said that there appeared to him to
be a great deal of mystery about the case ; there certainly was
much mystery connected with it from first to last.—(hear.)
Now, if the House agreed with the Hon. Member for Lambeth
by se mileg back the report for the purpose of hearing the peti'
tioneis, it would be a great injustice to the Caledonian Coto'
pony. Why were tot the petitions presented at once ?—this
was the mystery of the case. Now, however the petitioner'
wish to drive the Company to a greater expense than they were
already put to. If the motion should be agreed to, it would fore°
the Company to keep many witnesses in town wb°
had alreAy hen a great expense to the promoters, His Hoy
Friend—his Hon. Kinsman, Mr. Maxwell Alexander, had been
heard at great length in the Committee, and he was of opinion
that no injustice could be done to that gentleman. Who were
the parties engaged on this opposition ? There were three
Glasgow solicitors, who had no hitt rest more than might attach
to th, m professionally, and therefore no injury nor hardseiP
could be complained of by rejecting the present motioti-
( Hear, bear.) If there was any hardship in the cart
be would not object to the re port being se?_,
back and the petitions heard. But he could not account 1°:
the fact that six weeks had eloped before any attempt el
made to set the matter right—six weeks had elapsed, s°,
during that period no steps had been take n to explain how tb"
petitions had been lost.—(Hear, hear.) He did hope, nut;
withstanding the opinion of Mr. Speaker; to whom all me'
uow, that the report would not be sent back, but if other
petitions were to be entertained at all, that they should been'
tertainedin the Committee on the Bill. If any other cool/
were taken, it would be a great hardship to the promoters, ~
the line of railway, and he should, therefore, oppose the moel'
of the Hon. Member for Lambeth as one wholly uncalled Pri
Alr. BROTHERTON said that the agents for the Bill b'
been most dilligent in attending to their clients' interests, be
o
e
it would appear that the other parties had not used due ser„;
or the petitioners would have appeared before the Committo
in time. For six weeks they had nut taken the least pains i
set themselves right, and it was too bad that they should y°
be allowed to put the promoters to a heavy expense by the pi-
sent attempt to have the report sent back. Yb
Lord G. SOMERSET was understood to say that in
opinion the petition should be heard. I'
After a few words from Mr. HAWES, which did not reoc
the gallery,
Mr. STRUTT said, that in his opinion the case was °gl,.:,
which should be referred to the Committee on Petiti4r,o
They could nut complain that the opposite party had not tes`4,
the trouble to correct their faults and errors ; it was for the'
selves to do so.
After a few words from Mr. LOCKHART, od
Mr. HAWES said, after the statement of the Noble a 0(
(Lord G. So nerset), and under the pet Mier circunstaneqi)
the case, he hoped the House would not reuse to great
motion.
The House was then cleared for a division. • id
On our return to the gallery, we found that no division
taken place, and that the motion bad been aereed to.
Mr. GROGAN presented a petition tsetse the chiralel'
sweepers of Dublin, against free-trade in blacldaa. I
Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition free. toe member°
the National Association, against the Irish Coercion Bill. , i
Mr. POULETT SCROPE presented a petition tre,
place in Scotland against the Bid for the removal of the ri:ell
Sir J. GRA HAAI presented a petition, signed by 'onto!
i gentlemen of large property in a northern county, inel%id
several Roman Catholic priests, praying the House not toia
any additional facilities for the end°, merit of Roman Catfrior
unless provision should be made 'to take the right of DO
tion out of the hands of the Roman Catholic pretates.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
Messengers from the Lords brought down certain BillP.Ai
Mr. PACKE presented a petitioa from voters in Leine':_,
shire, complaining that they were exceedingly harasse'l
vexatious objections at electn nv.
AI AYNOOTH ENDOWMENT.
Mr. PLUAIPTRE gave notice that he would, after fif
move for the reeeal of those Acts which endowed the Colle
Alaytiooth.—( Hear, hear. )
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. COLLETT wished to put a question to the Right
Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government. He'
to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman when, and
long a period, it was proposed to adjourn the House at •
Sir R. PEEL stated in reply, that on Monday nil
would be prepared to state the period for which it was '
to adjourn the House, and which, he might say, vroub
the shortest period consistent, as he wished to expedite t
lie business, He might, however, state that the Hoes
be adjourned on Thursday next.
In answer to a question from Sir W. Somerville, •
inaudible in the gallery,
Mr. HUME said, that each of the paragraphs •
were illegal, for it was impossible to know every one
harbours in England and Ireland, with re.-pect to whi
will be a report by the Commissioners appointed to vi
places. The only difficulty and delay was from the t
of getting the maps and plans—without which the
would be unsatisfactory.
PROTECTION TO LITE (IRELAND Bli
On the order of the day being read for resuming
journed debate,
Air O'CONNELL said, that in rising to move an
ment to the motion before the House, he should pro
House to be as brief as he reasonably could.—(The Hi
tlemen here became inaudible as a considerable number
Members rose and left their places.) He did not 1
the Right Hon. Baronet had hardly shown the small
for this measure, nor had he shown that the t
plained of could be remedied by their Bill, in fact,
thing alleged to justify the harshness of the Bill
severity of former measures that had been appli'
Irish. 'lt was not shown, nor attempted to be shoot
proposed Bill would prevent any of the crimes with
had been menaced in Ireland. There were, however,
missions made by the Right Hon. Baronet which
consolatory. It was consolatroy to know that ,
nothing political in these crimes, and above all
religious or belonging to any sect or
to instigate the commission of these crimes —(11'
Being a Roman Catholic was no indemnity against ti
ment of crimes committed by this portion of the e
and that the Catholic faith was no indemnity for the
Lion of a Protestant; but he was glad to find that
Hon. Baronet considered that there was nothing i°
rages which partook of a political or sectarian chars,
of thirty-two counties, twenty-three were free from.
turbances, so that nearly three-fourths of Ireland
from any of these agrarian disturbances—but a sins!:
of the people of Ireland had had any hand in them
be proceeded further, he wished to draw the attenr
House to two or three of the cases which had been
by the Right
.Hon. Baronet (Sir James Grahain2d,t
stance, the county of Tyrone was tranquil as any _l'''
on the face of the globe. The Hon. and Learned,
tan
the referred to a letter from Air. Ryan—his faithlo
the purport of which was quite inaudible in ".
owing to the' low tone in which her
owing
He wished to recall to the attention of the House
assassination of Alr. Pierce Carrie, not with a vied '
it, but to convince the House of the cause of thee,.
was necessary to state the facts which led to tifivi,
. •oe ot
order that the House might be in possession _
co tie
sufficient to enable them to take steps to rernovo_,
those murders. Now, he held in his hand a i'll
paper, which contained a report of the- inquest‘eonoi
the unfortunate gentleman, anti here the caur.,_:ei,
was clearly stated. It would appear that M • L'e'is
mised to reduce the rent of his tenants ashen his
tciotnniewoafi
nagoet,mbaudtew. helnhtehraetnptes:ioond
tahrerievoendttrhaer;;,;eo;
and the tenantry compelled to pay 101. formarn_v_ei,
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atlsre.
oCf atrhriise
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ro f
could the e
vb
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the House ought to pass a certain Bill to phre ed'eane
of property. Now the amendment which
was, " That while this House deplores the
.'
rage in Ireland, and is sincerely anxious faovra tea,
of opinion that such outrage will be aggrtional en'
by the arbitrary, unjust, and unconstitu , .130
this Bill, and that it is the duty of to
to
to adopt such measures as will , '
the causes which produce these crimes, I°6'4 9f

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