The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-07 00:00:00

Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET called the atten-

tion of the House to the resolutions of the Select Com-
mittee appointed to inquire as to the best mode
of facilitating the railway business before the House.
The first resolution was to the effect, that a portion of
the railway Bills should be allowed to commence in the
House of Lords ; and that in the case of all
Bills thus commencing in the House of Lords
this House should not insist on their usual pri-
►ilege with regard to the clauses fixing and
regulating the toll rates in such Bills. The
Committee also considered it necessary, in order to give
increased means of employment to the people of
Ireland, that facilities should be given for the
early introduction of Irish railway Bills. Now,
in order to facilitate the passing of those mea-
sures, this proceeding was recommended, and therefore
h. trusted the House would not hesitate to adopt the
report. He did not know that it was necessary for him
to make any further observations upon the subject. He
begged leave to move the adoption of the report.
Mr. F. FRENCH—The resolutions proposed by the
Noble Lord were of such a nature as to affect two classes
of Bills, viz., all Irish Bills, and all such other Bills as
were in the position of that of the London and York.
The Noble Lord had recommended that all Bills thus
circumstanced should go at once before the House of
Lords; but this, he contended, would be a most inconve-
nient course for the Irish Bills. And here he must observe,
that he could not see the necessity for announcing with
such a flourish of trumpets that the Irish Bills had been
peculiarly favoured ; at least he, for one, was at a loss
to see that they were in any way favoured beyond the
English Bills. Indeed, he believed he could show pretty
clearly that there was no substantial benefit whatever
conferred on the Irish Bills by this arrangement.
Hcifound, in going through these resolutions, that if
the Committee report that the standing orders have
not been complied with, the Bill is referred to the Stand-
ing Orders Committee. Now this was most unjust. He
contended that they should not be allowed to do so, as they
thus put the opposing parties to renewed expense, just
as if they had not made out their case. There was one
facility for the passing of Irish railway Bills which could
have been recommended, but which had been unnoticed

by both Houses. There was a difference in the practice
of the House of Commons and the House of Lords; in
the former, in Irish bills it was only necessary to prove
the service of the proper notices by an affidavit, sworn
before a judge or an assistant barrister. In the House
of Lords, however, it was necessary to bring over every
person who had served these notices, in order to prove
them, and sometimes between 60 and 70 persons were
brought to London in order to follow out that rule. Now
if the practice of the House of Commons was adopted, a
very material saving would be made.
Mr. BERNAL was not prepared to give
any preference to Irish schemes until he saw the
justice of such a preference, for when they con-
sidered the number of English schemes at pre-
sent, and the mystery that was everywhere prevalent as
to their ultimate success, they would see that such a
preference was contrary to justice. He believed that it
was known that the amount of deposits irrespective
of Irish or Scotch schemes, but merely on
English ones, NV 13 about eleven millions and a
half. The report recommending such a preference
would assuredly disappoint the public. He did not think
that Ireland and Scotland would jump at this preference
as a great boon, for they knew that if the English rail-
ways were first attended to it would cause an influx of
Irish navigators, who would be well, employed. He did
not think that a railway running to the southern part,
or any other part of Ireland would be any remedy for
the destitution that prevailed there. He also thought
that the Noble Lord on the Committee might be pre-
pared to come to this House with some scheme which
would alter the enormous expense attendant on these
railway schemes, and some better way of disposing of
them. Would it be believed that in the present year
they were so little able to cope with the difficulties of
these schemes? These inquiries might be as well con-
ducted by means of some commission appointed to take
these matters into consideration.
The O'CONOR DON wished to make a few obser-
vations in answer to what had fallen from the lion. Gen-
tleman who had just sat down. The Committee who
drew up the present report considered that it would
be most advisable to give employment to the people
of Ireland during the months of the corning
summer, when it was feared they would suffer most from
the failure of the potato crop, viz., the months com-
mencing with March and terminating with August.
Under those circumstances they recommended,
in their report, that for the purpose of giving
emmopelotbys•mepnrteeedtoeneethesbelerldish p
be goiovree dtungthose
eritbe
Irisb
railway Bills, and that they should be introduced in the
first instance into the house of Lords. The lion. Gen-
tleman who had last spoken seemed to say that it
would be no benefit to the Irish that preference
should ,be given to the Irish railway Bills for this
reason, that the Irish poor could obtain employment in
the formation of the English railways. Now he (the
• O'Conor Don) for his own part felt that it would be
much better to give the Irish labourers employment in
Ireland, inasmuch as they could then share with their
families the products of their labour.—(hear, hear.)
notwithstanding the statements that had been made with
respect to the potato crop in Ireland, he could assure
the House that in the county of Sligo especially the
Two s.atduonpitvioenrsoafl.
the report.
blightfr.. on
GL potatoeso s B
be could not consider how those
bad in view, but
Yhadopbpeoesnedalt
effect by compelling Irish
He perfectly agreed with the objects which the Com-
mitteeviews could be carried into.
railway business to commence in the House of Lords;
be allowed the option• of comme _
he thought it moregthat
tthheeyHosuhsoeuoldf
Commons if they were quite ready so to do.

Sir GEORGE CLERK did not know of any impe-
diment which would be thrown in the way of Irish rail-
ways by compelling them to commence in the House of
Lords. On the contrary, he thought much benefit would
be the result. In the case of two competing companies,

one might commence in that House, and the other might
be brought forward in the House of Lords. The Com-
mittee of this House might sanction one of the
schemes, and the House of Lords would possibly
°outsider the other company as deserving of support;
the consequence would necessarily be, that instead
of facilities being afforded, the whole cencern would
be brought to a stand still, and one House would say to
the other you must not pass this Bill until you have
sent it to us, in order to decide upon its merits as to
the other competing line.
Mr. AGLIONBY—Suppose there should be no com-
peting line ?
Sir G. CLERK did not consider even in that
ease that any substantial injustice would be
inflicted upon these Bills. There were standing orders
of both Houses which must be complied with prior to
, obtaining their powers. He did not therefore consider
that any possible inconvenience could arise from the
adoption of the course suggested by the Select Committee.
He believed it was the intention of his Hon. Friend the

President of the Board of Trade, to introduce resolu•
tions which would have the effect of doing away with

any standing order that would be productive of inconve-
nience to the public business ; and this he believed
would have the effect of obviating the difficulties appre-
hended by the Honourable Members for Cockermouth
and Roscommon. Owing to the peculiar position of
Ireland, the Government wore anxious that every facility
should be given to the passing of all Irish railway Bills,
with a view to giving the labouring population of that
country employment when it would be most wanted,
namely, in the months of June and July next ; and he
did believe that doing so would confer one of the greatest
benefits upon that country.— (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROSS said it would be well that all Bills not
having to encounter competition should be at once sent
to the House of Lords.
Mr. GREENE said that those Bills which should have
been declared to have complied with the standing orders
it was recommended should be sent at once to the House
of Lords, and that would greatly facilitate the business.
Mr. W. COLLETT said that he did not think that
the benefits supposed to follow the passing of the Irish
Bills would be realised, because such Bills as should not
have passed before June or July could not be
brought into operation for some months after.
He considered that the Government ought to take some
means for expediting the Bills which had once been
reported to have fulfilled the standing orders.
The SPEAKER having then read some extracts from
the report,
Mr. E. B. DENISON said that it would be
a very hard case should they rescind the order
of the 7th July last, and it was right that he
should call their attention to what that resolution was. It

provided that Bills which had passed the ordeal of that
House should be entitled to go into the House of Lords just
as they stood, meaning those Bills which had passed the
Standing Orders Committee. Now that was the case of
the Portsmouth group, and the London and York. Would it
not be very hard indeed if these companies, after having
gone to such enormous expense, should be
precluded now, and have to commence de novo.
With regard to the London and York line, there were
other lines to compete with it, and the House of Lords
would have to take these schemes into consideration.
There was the Direct Northern Railway, and also the
Cambridge line, which would decidedly take up a good
deal of time in getting through. He considered that if
the Committee would act more impartially, it would be
beneficial to the interests of railways generally.
Mr. WARD said that at the close of last session there
were great complaints with regard to the time occupied
in the discussion on railway Bills. There were several
parties who had been for eighty days before the Com-
mittee of the House of Commons who were never heard.
and who were afterwards told that their place of refuge
was the House of Lords. That was a position in
which a Committee, although acting impartially, eould not
avoid placing them. The question was not with regard
to the interests of a particular company, but it was a
question as to what decision the Legislature could come
to as to which line was the best, and it was fit, just and
proper, and wise, that the House of Lords should have
an opportunity f mature consideration on that subject.
Mr. E. DENISON said that the scheme referred to
by the preceding speaker was not a new one, and there-
fore the arguments made use of on the present occasion
against the measure did not apply.
Lord G. SOMERSET did not consider that the
House would be committing any injustice by adopting
the report. After a f..,w further remarks from the Noble
Lord, which were inaudible in the gallery,
Sir H. W. BARRON said it was quite impossible
that any railroad, the Bill for which might be passed
during the present session, could give employment to
the Irish people for several months to come. lie did
not say this from any opposition to the measure, but
.merely for the purpose of undeceiving the House on
this subject. He hoped the House would not
depend too much npon the present project, as likely to
he of great advantage to the people of Ireland. Sup •
posing a Bill for a railway had passed both Houses, and
received the royal assent, he need not tell the House that
notices must be issued for calls, and those
calls must be made in the first place ; in the
next place, they must get possession of the line, which
all would know was a task of no ordinary difficulty.
After that it was necessary to advertise and enter into
contracts. All these things would occupy a great deal of
time, and the House would be very much deluded if
they thought that they would be giving early employment
to the Irish poor. He could assure the House that it
would be August or September next before any new
railroad could be commenced in Ireland.
After a few words from Mr. W. COLLETT and Mr.
FORSTER, which were inandible in the reporters' gallery,
The SPEAKER put the motion, which was agreed to.
THE MILITIA.

Mr. GREENE presented a petition praying the Go-
♦ernment not to take any measures for the embodiment
of the militia during the present Session.
TEN HOURS' BILL.
Lord JOHN MANNERS presented a petition from
Bury St. Edmund's in fayour of the Ten Hours' Bill.
COMMERCIAL POLICY.

Mr. B. ESCOTT presented a petition signed by the
clergy, gentry, and yeomanry of Ilminster and its neigh-
bourhood, repudiating a protectionist petition purporting
to come from that neighbourhood, and got up by the
Society for the Protection of Agriculture, as not really
expressing the feeling of the neighbourhood, and pray-
ing the House to pass the measures proposed by the Go-
vernment for the relief of the wants of the country.
Captain CARNEGIE presented a petition from cer-
tain landlords, tenant farmers, and other inhabitants of
West Sussex, praying for the abolition of all resrtictions
on commerce and the free importation of foreign corn.
DISTRESS IN IRELAND.
Mr. O'CONNELL, seeing the Right Hon. Baronet
the Secretary for the Home Department in his place,
would ask if the Right Hon. Gentleman had any objec-
tion to lay on the table of the House the communications
to which he had alluded last night, in reference to the
distress at present prevailing in Ireland?
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he should be most happy
to lay upon the table, without delay, the communications
to which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman referred.
There was in the report a particular case with reference
to the union of Kells, and there was also a communica-
tion from Colonel Jones, of the Board of Works, which
would also be furnished with the others. He thought
it was important that they should be furnished without
delay, and he would lay them on the table of the House
before they adjourned on that evening.
AMENDMENT ON SIR R. PEEL'S MEASURE.
Mr. PHILIP MILES gave notice that he would, on
the motion of the House going into Committee on the
resolutions proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of the Government, the subject of our commercial
policy, move, as an amendment, that the House should
resolve itself into the said Committee that day six
months.
INTERFERENCE OF PEERS IN ELECTIONS.
Mr. COLLETT (of Athlone) gave notice that on the
19th instant he would inquire into the causes which had
led the Members for the city of Chichester and the
boroughs of Newark, Woodstock, and Buckingham to
vacate their seats, and also, whether or no, and, if any,
in what case the resolutions of that House, providing
against the interference of Peers in elections, had bee?
infringed.