The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-14 00:00:00

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!JQIJSE OF COMMONS, Mayl3.
THE FACTORIES BILL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. LABOUCHEUE was quite happy to agree with the last
speaker In several points, but these were matters which required much
consideration, and although belied before given his thoughts upon
the subject to the House, be felt it necessary not to Fidler
this debate to close without stating his sentiments. This
was neither more nor less than an attempt to reduce the productive
power of this inanntacturing country by one-sixth. in stating this
tact, however, he was not insensible of the claims of the great and
numerous and important class to which this Bill referred. They
were in the eyes of the Great Creator of all men the most important
of all classes, because he viewed all his creatures alike and with the
same favour, and this was the most important because it was the
most numerous.—(Cheers.) He had supported his Noble Friend
Lord Ashley in his Bill for preventing the working of women in coal-
mines underground, hut it was allowed on all hands that it was one
of the most delicate of all matters to interfere between the
employer and the employed, and they might go too far. lie recol-
lected, from the report of the Factory Commissioners with regard to
Manchester, who o there were three distinct mantifeeturee carried
on -that of the common cotton article, that for fustian s. and that for
pine—and it was the custom, when children were too young to be sent
into the cotton factories, to send them to the loader cattere, and if
leo yocnie for that they were sent to that len-makers, so
tlfo'.ourable Gentleman hat there was no avoidance of the evil. The Right
ory Counnissioners to
o say, that if the house were
r-ewith labour they Would have teo.
I;qti tio ;setlie,t.vrLiiii.iorteelirzepti; report
of ee
lation into commissioners.—(licar, hear.) !flies was contrary to the
whole principle of the constitution, and such al could never lie used
with anything like effect. They were, in feet, atiemetine en impose
Cbility, and he must say that lie did not think that the lien. Mem-
ber for Oldham (Mr. Fielder]) lied acted with entire fair-
ness and candour on this occasion. That Ilonottratilet Mem-
ber, who from his high standing :is a manufacturer and :is a
man, was deservedly entitled to the very highest consideration
among the operatives, had stated, on the moving; of the second
reading of this BM, that there was to be no reduction of motif., no
reductionno reduction of produce. Why, how could he
reconcile coiiciletolif wages,ew'ho
whole of this evident itnomaly ? Were the manufac-
turers to give twelve hours wages for len bones' work,
and yet be losers neither in profit or produce ? Ile confessed
that he could not conceive how such a result was to lie obtained.
Ile understood that in numerous iiistances families were at the pre-
sent moment leaving those mills ; short time was worked to obtain
ielnuitpltodemreet,tyta
wits
in
et
toisech
tthhiantg wu*poorkneldectolried (as workmen ilerae‘airn,ghielatirn.s)
that worked twelve hours to go to those that work: d but ten or
eleven. And if those facts did not carry conviction to the minds of
Honourable Gentlemen as to the feeling entertained by the working
classes with regard to this measure, he really knew not what would.
—(llear, hear.) While lie was upon the subject he would venture
to read to the House an extract from a letter which he had lately
received frone a gentleman who had permitted him to make the
!.‘w,reliatics3,ulirriree.
aiitt,:m tc;containedrtehge
communication to the House, and which, both from its nature and
said
h brotheraadr
the high authority of the Writer. was well worthy of attention. He
rersot
twelve o gutrniierants much more conelu,ive, than
any which lie (Hr. Labouchcre) could introduce. It was a letter
labourhltioadoeinyter:dhuocredimtliaelledietsitemnt bwoluKr,,,s33-strt.ecinmigritfooulnilas
Mthneßr.edili.icGtiroeig; cif": flaicotunrsreorf
that the loss in the amount of production was so serious that he
could not, continue {be short
difference between him, and they hour system unless they divided the
prefer the twelve hour system to a '
reindictb:it:sly said that they v.ould
An Ilea arable litchnua—This is the o, wages.—(llere.)
party that wrote in favour
of the ten hour system.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE—Front the calculation which he h ten hours Bill would reduce the wages of the working classes about
a
b
25 per cent., and an eleven hours Bill 13 per cent, Ho-oloyat
men-
tioned this to show the great care and consideration that
oiighttobe made use of by the Legislature before they suddeniy passed such a measure as this.—(Hear, bear.) He believed that lion. Members
who said that this Bill would not lower the wages of the manu-
facturing classes laboured under a very great delusion.—(llear.)
Ills own belief was that the measure, if passed, would at no
distant day cause a fearful struggle between the, mph Mists of this
country stud those who are the employed. And the fearful conse-
quences of that struggle would eventually recoil upon the heads of
the working classes, for whose benefit this Bill professed to be.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not say that that struggle would come imme-
diately. If they passed this Bill they would reduce the productive
power of the manufacturing population of this country one-sixth
at least. Tlic foreign manufacturers, who In some placcs worked at
the present time upwards of twelve hours per day-- (Hear, hear)---
would then be fearful and cerielnly successful rivals of the English
manufactures, The foreign capitalist, with unrestrained hours of
labour, would be able to fill up the gap which this Bill would pro.
duce, He should deeply regret if this session, which would witness
the unshackling of commerce, would also \\Thiess the restriction of
that commerce for the benefit of which the:ether great measure was
expressly brought forward.— (Ileme hear.) This was indeed a deli-
cate subject to encounter. It was trite that this meeeure did not, in
so many words, seek to limit the ltonrs of the adult population
of the manufacturing district, but it wc.uld irayo that effect. The
deputies of manufacturing classes admitted. tnat it would have that
tendency; and he therefore thought t'afit it was most unfair to
argue in support of the BP! that 11. would only limit the hours of
young persons. It was nreletebteilly tine, and he observed with
great pleasure, that there did exist emit- the working classes of
this country an increased desire for leisure,erl for '
the improvement
of their moral and intellectual faculties.and
desire was at the
present time being largiily carded into effect in the metropolis and,
other large tOWila, but it was a voluntary arrangement between the
masters and their workmen.—(ilea-, hear.) Both desired to do
and it was a movement to which every one niust wish success. But
there was a wide difference between arrangements of that kind and
a compulsory enactment of the Legislature. He must decline the
responsibility of making those experiments with the labour of his
fellow-countrymen, which was the most in-Tenant interest in this
country. He was opposed to an eleven as well as a Ten Hours' Bill,
but of the two evils he should certainly prefer the Eleven Ronne
Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COWPER said that the Right Hon. Gentleman, who
had just addressed the House, had entirely abandoned that
which had been hitherto considered a strong ground against
this Bill, viz. that it was an abolition of principle. Now,
with respect to the opinions of the operatives in the manufac-
turing districts, they were decidedly in favour of this measure;
he knew that from having personally attended, in company
with Lord Ashley, a meeting of the manufacturing operatives,
which had been called for the purpose of ascertaining their
feelings with regard to this measure. Let them look also to
the petitions that had been presented to the House in 18-14,
Then it was said that-the working classes, by their rer -
evated
strikes, would compel their employers to accede to th.• passing
of a ten hours' Bill. Now this was the most tingerous ex-
pression that had been uttered during the lal.t, few' years. Be-
sides, the operatives always knew that ".`srikes seldom turned out
for their ultimate advantage—(]:;ear)—because they invariably
entailed injuries upon th.
".:inselves and their employers. But
there was another ':eason—these who had taken the head of the
movement dell a deep responsibility, and he did rot speak of
f'-
-Jose who had advocated the rights of the working classes in
that House, but of the operatives themselves, who more gene-
rally consisted of men who knew that they would best serve the
cause of the chil'ren by not resortir.g to such ulterior measures,
and consequently by inducing their masters and the country
to look favourably on the course they advocated. In many
cases they had been successful in this course of proceeding.
With respect to voluntary agreements, which he considered the
best way of settling the question. However desirable these
agreements might be in the abstract, he feared that they could
not be generally entered into, because it was difficult to get
masters to agree, and where one master assented, it was pos-
sible another manufacturer in his immediate vicinity might not.
With respect to foreign competition, which he might say
was one great obstacle thrown in the way of the
settlement of th's question, the ground formerly taken.
was not the same as taken now. The grounfl formerly taken
was this—that the expense of an operative's s•bsistence was s-,0
great, owing to the tax upon corn, that we could not celnpete
with foreign countries, if, in addition to the reduz:tion of the
hours of labour, the price of food was enhanced, In the letter
of Mr. Marshall, which he considered gave him great credit,
as he was anxious to uphold the commerce of the country, he
stated that the repeal of the corn-laws, e..-id other restrictive
duties—and which might now be considered certain ; and 'free
trade generally, would produce 'defter markets and more con-
stant employment, a better supply of the necessaries of life, and
would facilitate the, reduction of the hours of labour without
reducing wages or profits. But it has always been said, when
ever any reduction of the hours of labour was proposed, that the
manufacturers would be severely injured. But who were
ruined ? Were master manufacturers ruined ? Clearly not
He considered that the great and permanent benefit the work-
ing classes would receive from the repeal of the corn-laws was
the reduction of their hours of labour. He was not quite pre-
pared to admit that this measure would not cause a diminution
of produce. It was true that there might be a diminution of
daily produce, but it did not follow that the diminution of days
would diminish the produce of the entire year. He did not
think that there was any market which our manntacturers
could not glut in a given time, so that the operative who,
wished twelve hours would necessarily not be constantly ems.
ployed. With regard to any reduction of wages, he could
show that the great majority of the operatives would be willing
to run the risk of having their wages lowered. The late Sir
R. Peel was in favour of such a system. The additional
leisure of such a measure would give loung persons a good
opportunity of completing or obtaining an education to fit
them for the social duties of the world upon which they were
about to enter.
Mr. DENNISTOUN stated, that the Hon. Member for
Newcastle, in the commencement of his speech had stated that
if he thoughtl that this measure would effect what he called the
four staple commodities of manfacture, viz,, cotton, wool.
silk, and linen, he could not vote for it. He (Mr. Dennistoun )
would endeavour to show that this measure hadurbseectunres.attended
with ver serious consequences to. all otiterhriterere
was
25,0%
would take the case of one mill, in which wwhich was 22,000/. per
spindles, and the gross produce
oit would take 1-Bth from
annum. If this measure were pass,t‘o.a
stages paid amounted to 7,0001.
that, or a sum of 1,100/. Theon that‘ amount. Even as it was,
and would be 90 per cent
of which lie spoke lost 1,030/. per
the owner of the mill h
and what would be s chance of improving his annum'
con-
dition if this measure were passed. Besides, when experimentsi
had been made, the people themselves did not seem anxious to
reduce their labour. In one case, where permission was
given to the operatives to absent themselves from the mill for
a day at a time, an extra hand being found to work for them,
who of course received their wages for the time, they at first availed themselves of the permission, but in a few weeks no ap,
plications at all were made.
Lord JOHN MANNERS said, that instead of givin effect to the wishes of the working people, they were compelled to listen to the speeches of the Hon. Secretary, and lately to
that of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. Was it
a great principle and everlasting truth, or a merely temporary
difficulty, which prevented the settlement of this question ? A
preliminary difficulty therefore met him in the opening, and
he should, therefore, confine himself to a reply to the speech
of the Hon. Gentleman who had just . sat down. —(1-fear. )
That Hen. Gentleman had said, that if the working people
would consent to an agreement not to agitate for any further
alteration, he would assent to a compromise for an eleven
hours Bill. But what was the case ? On the one side, they
had the unanimous voice of the people in favour of this Bill,
the majority of the subordinates, all the dissenting ministers, and
a great portion of the nation in favour of the principle. On the
other there were only those opponents who among the master
manufacturers were the most remarkable for their ten..
dency to political agitation.—(Cheers.) Then again the Hon.
Member had said that this Bill was confined to an advantage
for the young persons employed in factories. Then an argument
had been used In order to show that the repeal of the corn-
laws would throw off protection from the artizans in the manu-
facturing • districts. But who was it that agitated for the repeal
of the corn-laws? Certainly not the operatives of Manchester
or Huddersfield, but those parties who were now desirous of
throwing out the Bill.—(Cheers.) He would take the Right
• Honourable Gentleman's remark to show that the eorat-e
would have to pay two hours labour perdayfor th
the offer advantagetoit
s
the
of cheap bread—(Cheers)—and ho would make
reduction of labour,
leaguers that if they would assent to this
lie (Lord J. Manners) would consent to the same duty on corn
of
as it existed at the beginningthe year. The Noble Lord (
Ashley) had, it might be remembered, on the introduction of
this measure in 1844, carefully gone through the circum-
stances of every country, and had shown how impossible it was
for any parties to compete with this country. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, Marc h in ridiculing who was so bold in
the idea of
competition, was now the most ready to adopt the idea of pro..
tection. How was it that this fear was so soon abolished?
He feared that the Right Hon Baronets in the Home Depart-
ment and at the head of the Government, were advocates for
the retention of the Eleven Hours' Bill, and they had stated
that reduction was equivalent to 16 per cent., both on the pro-
duction and the wages. At what rate, then, did they estimate
the change now ? In 1829 the manufacturers of Nottingham
had agreed to a restriction of the hours of labour, and some
years afterwards had returned to the system of unrestricted
exertion; and what was the consequence? Die wages rise or
did they fall ? Why, that labour which had formerly obtained
6d., was reduced to 3d.—(Cheers. )—and lie could not think
that that which had been obtained in NottinghaMshire wou i d
equally hold in the large districts of Lancashiremean
to say t hat
and Yorkshire.
Did the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir
R.
feel)
longer to look t
)
the lower classes of the community
theiree no
happiness or o tla
the Government as the harbingerm y
welfare, or whether they weremerely
of the state, .and that,
long as they got the
tax-gatherers, and thetaxe
policemens
it mattered not to them w
,
the people were rig ofh n 4 happy or poor and miserable