The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-14 00:00:00

TS,

14, i 846:

Mr. SCROPE—I did not say the gentlemen of Ireland;
I said the poor of Ireland.
Mr. VILLIERS—WeII, then, the poor of Ireland.
He (Mr. Villiers) did not see that the poverty or
misery of Ireland could be at all connected with that
question, and he asked whether it would not be neces-
sary in any case to have a poor-law for Ireland ? The
Gentlemen opposed to that question admitted the ne-
cessity of that law. If there was a Legislature embrac-
ing a House of Commons and a House of Lords sitting
in Duhlin at that moment, would not the first law which
would engage their attention be a tax for the relief of
the poor ? The other great argument which was
referred to by the Hon. Member for Limerick for the
repeal of the union, was the absence of the landed
proprietors. Absenteeism he would admit might operate
most injuriously on the inter sts of Ireland, but ab-
senteeism could not be laid to the fault of the Legislature
of England. Ile would call the attention of lion. Mem-
bers to this fact, that the estates of some gentlemen who
were absentees were better managed than those of the
gentlemen who resided in Ireland.—(Hear. hear.)
Mr. P. SCROPE explained. He begeted to assure the
Hon. Member and the House that he did not wish for a
repeal of the union ; he merely said that if he were a
poor man living in Ireland, and subjected to those
miseries under which that country laboured, he would be
an advocate for the repeal of the union. He did not
wish to be understood however as being himself favor-
able to a repeal of the union.
Mr. N EWDE ;ATE said it appeared that. the ideas
of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers)
were so concentrated upon one subject—that of free-
trade—that he could not hear of any circumstances that
might militate against that doctrine; for instance, the
Han. Member stated that. the exportation of agricultural
produce from Ire lend to this country was a grievous, evil
which at all times pressed upon Ireland, and he sugeested
the wisdom of findii,g elsewhere the means of supply to
this country, that Ireland might be relieved of that
mighty evil, and retain to herself her own agricultural
produce. He would not condescend to stoop to circum-
stances, such was his ardour in the cause of free trade.
lie urged upon us the advantage that Ireland would de-
rive by having manufactures established in that country,
and by retaining her agricultural produce, all of which
measures would, us it had been said, be obtained by the
repeal of the union. But if the repeal of the union were
to entail upon Ireland the loss of a market for her pro-
duce in this country, it would only involve greater
misery upon the people ; and he (Mr. Newdegate) must
say, that in his opinion the repeal in that sense would
confer no advantage either upon Englard or Ireland.
Mr. FINCH, amidst cries of " Oh, oh," rose to say
that he merely wished to observe that the great griev-
ance of Ireland was, not that she exported so much of
her agricultural produce to this country, but that the
demand for labour was so little.—(Hear, hear.) In fact,
one of the greatest curses which could be inflicted upon
Ireland would be the importation of the produce of
American and Prussian labour into the markets of this
cour.try, which would naturally cause the demand for
labour in Ireland to be even less than it was at present.
—(Hear, hear.) And such would be the result of the
present measure of her Majesty's Government He
thought that her Majesty's Government were, however,
taking some steps to remedy this evil in Ireland by
granting sums of money fur the execution of public
works ; and he must say that, differing from them as he
did upon many other occasions, in this, at least, he was
of opinion that they deserved the thanks of the country
for the measures which they had introduced for the pur-
pose of putting an end, if possible, to the distress and
famine that at present prevailed in Ireland.—(Hear.)
The SPEAKER then put the question, that leave be
given to bring in the Bill.
Leave was granted, and the Bill was read a first time.
POOR-LAW AMEND.MENT
Sir J. GRAHAM then moved for leave to bring in a
Bill for the amendment of the present law relating to
the settlement of the poor in England, the main features
of which was to give the poor a claim to parochial re.
lief after five years' industrial residence in the country
Leave was given to bring in the Bill, and it was then
read the first time.

TIMBER DUTIES.
Mr. H. HINDE presented a petition from the ship-
owner's association, in which the petitioners stated that
they were prepared to give their assent to all the mea-
sures included in the Customs' and Corn Importation
Bin, with the exception of that portion which proposed
to abolish the duty on timber.
CORN • LAWS.

Mr. H. ELLICE, in the absence of the Noble Lord
;he Member for London (Lord John Russell), presented
a petition from a number cf silk manufacturers, who
stated that the silk trade was paralysed
during the suspense in the measures now
under the consideration of Parliament, and
they prayed that the House would as speedily as
possible pass the Bill into a law, in order that activity
might be restored to the trade of this country.—(Hear.)
Mr. W. ELLICE presented a petition from the manu-
facturers of London to the same effect.
CUSTOMS AND CORN IMPORTATION BILL.
Mr. GREENE having brought up the report on the
Customs' resolutions,
Mr. SPOONER rose to more that the report be re-
ceived this day six months—(Laughter)—and in pray-
iog the indulgence of the House he would state as briefly
as possible the reasons which induced him to propose that
amendment. By adopting the resolutions Low under
consideration, the House would abandon those principles
which he thought were calculated to advance the
interest of all classes of society—(Hear, hear)—he
meant the principles of protection to native industry—
(Hear, hear)—be that industry agricultural or mann-
faeturing. Native industry had ever been protected. It
had been the policy cn which we had ever acted, and it
was by a close adhesion to that policy that the country
had been raised to that pitch of commercial greatness
and manufacturing renown, which it now so justly
occupied.—(Hear, hear.) It was also raised in his
opinion, under the blessings of Providence, to; that station
and condition which it at a past period occupied, by
means of that principle, and by it they were enabled to
struggle against the effects of revolutionary wars. It was
under that principle that the colonies had pros
pered.—(Hear. hear.) It was their commerce that
excited the envy and admiration of Napoleon, and
fur which he would have given half of his empire. He
bslieeed that if they abandoned the principles of protec-
tion to native industry, they would destroy the interest
of their shipping trade, their colonies, and their com-
merce.—(Hear, hear.) And what were the reasons that
had been given for abandoning this principle to native
industry ? Why they had been told that past experi-
ence proved that a protected article was not damaged by
a loss of protection, but that the price of it after the pro-
tection had been taken away universally increased.—
(Rear, hear.) That was the statement of the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government.—(Sir R. Peel
expressed his dissent.) He most undoubtedly con-
ceived that that was the view of the Right Hon.
Baronet. The Right Hon. Baronet had referred to the
experience of the last three years.—(Hear.) And what
did he tell them ? He told them in the first place to
look at the importation of cattle since the duties had
been removed. That ground had been shown to be un-
tenable by the unanswered and unanswerable speech of
the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn—(Hear)—
who, in his (Mr. Spooner's) opinion, was, of all Mem-
bers in that House, the most able to speak upon that
subject.—(Hear,:hear.) Food was too scarce to feed the
cattle at that time—(Opposition cheers)—and that was
the reason why they could not he kept. That fact
created low prices, and these low prices brought a panic
upon the farmers, and the natural consequence was that
the short supply of cattle produced an increase in the
price.—(Hear, hear.) But they were told that from ex-
perience they had nothing to fear from the abolition of
protection to native industry. As a case in point he
would quote the glove trade. Before the abolition of
protection upon gloves, there were in this country the
largest glove manufactories in Europe ; but out of the
100 manufactories that then existed there were
now only 40; and in his own immediate neighbourhood
there were now 800 houses uninhabited,lwhich before
the abolition of the duty on gloves were inhabited by
parties engaged in the glove mane
numb
cheers.) He knew a great number of glove
manufacturers, who at the time alluded to were opulent,
but now, in consequence of the great importation of
they could scarcely maintain their families.
At
rte
on
nc
ov
gtilmeesthey contribed large sums to the national
but now,
ciinpiceosn,setileuyenc:,eoref thceoncsairgrnyeidn
the free trade
treasury, gtooudtraogf
out the remainder of their days in comparative poverty
and ebscurity.—(Hear, hear.) He knew also that the
capital
of the country had been very greatly in-
creased by that experiment. And the only capital of
which the labourer was possessed, namely, his skill,
and the knowledge of the trade in which he had
been brought up was decreased.—(Hear, hear.) A
man brought up to a particular trade finds it almost im-
possible
to abandon that trade and enter upon a new
The fact that it was almost impossible for a
ofei_laeri to take up other trades than those to which he had
been accustomed was most ably and powerfully proved
by the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London,
in his celebrated work upon the British Constitution.
Amongst other things, the Noble Lord had showed the
fallacy—that when a man was forced to abandon his
trade he could take up another; he told us, in fact, that
it could not be done ; and he clearly made out this prin-
ciple, that it was not safe to be guided explicitly by ge-
neral principles in measures like the present, but that
we should look to the practical effect of proposals which
would affect the industry of this country. Now, with
regard to the silk trade. It had been clearly shown by
the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, that with re-
gard to this article, the principle of buying in the cheap.
est and selling in the dearest was merely clap-trap.--
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Spooner) was prepared to bear
out the Noble Lord in the able statements which had
been made by that Noble Lord, and he would request
the younger portion of the Hon. Members of that
House, to study the interest of the silk trade since the
abolition of its protection, before they came forward
to give their support to the present measure, which
was calculated to undermine the interests not only of
iwriculture but of the commerce of this country.
Well, what next was the reasoning in favour of the
measure ? It had been said that the country was blessed
with an abundant harvest in a particular year, and the
Prime Minister of the day said it was, in fact, too abun-
dant, and that a remedy should be applied in conse-
quence. But there followed immediately a very wet
season, and the same Prime Minister was compelled to
declare that the country was suffering in consequence ;
that the population was too abundant, and that emigra-
tion ought to be encouraged. That was to say, that the
best portion of the population of the country was to be
sent out of it, and that the blood, bone, and sinew of the
country were to expend their energies in a foreign land.
At that time two Committees were si:ting—one of which
was appointed to ascertain what were the best measures
that could be adopted for preventing the importation of
bad stuffs into this country ; and the other tat for the
purpose of devising the best means of emigration, or, in
other words, for devising the best means of sending out
of the country the mouths that were to be fed by this