The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-19 00:00:00

man acquainted with the state of Ireland, or acquainted
with the alarm which prevails there, can deny the
truth of the assertion of her Majesty's Ministers,
that measures of some kind or other are indispensible
and immediately necessary." Some kind or other,
the House would observe—" for the purpose of
giving that confidence which the people of that
country did not at present possess in the security of
their lives and property." Now he (Mr. Henley) must
say that when he heard the Right Hon. Baronet thus
express himself, he did not think he need be quite so
indignant with the Noble Lord who sat behind him in
reference to his remarks about the possibility of her
Majesty's Government not really intending to proceed
with this Bill. The Right Hun. Baronet had said that
the Bill could be rectified in Committee, and that ex-
pression therefore did not show that he entertained a
very strong conviction on his mind that it would pass in
its present shape. What need he to have been so
indignant about the Noble Lord's remarks, when
it appeared that the Government had no ob-
jection to mitigate the Bill when it went
into Committee? The proposition of the Government
amounted to this, " Would not the House do something
to remedy the present condition of Ireland?" Now, he
c ke
ow
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matter
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oo reallyoduot seemed
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present Government towards Ireland, that he must
wahaivn esrYtomilulucshtraa struck
trouble the House with it. In the returns there was the
name of William Middleton. Esq , who was described as
having been attacked, or having had one of the usual
outrages committed upon him. About one o'clock in the
morning, it appeared that a shot was fired into Mr. Mid-
dleton's dwelling, and the ball lodged in the door. Mr.
Middleton went out, but having seen no person, what
did he do ? He fired a shot as a signal of defiance.—
(Hear, and laughter.) Now that seems a very
Irish way of doing business, because he (Mr.
Henley) should have thoug,ht that he would have kept
his shot in case of emergency. Now, he thought that
the conduct of Mr. Middleton was something like that
of the Government. They fired this shot into Ireland to
defy Ireland. He thought that it was not a good
practice to show your teeth when you did not mean to
bite. He thought that every gentleman connected with
Ireland on his side of the House would agree with him
that it would be better, if they did not mean to '• bite"
the people, that they should not show their teeth. Well,
now, having disposed of this question of firing a shot of
defiance against Ireland, the next question he had to
ask himself was, whether there was anything in the
conduct of the present Government towards Ireland
that should induce any man to go into a wild inquiry for
the purpose of forming an opinion as to the way in
which the Irish quttsti,n should be settled? Supposing
they agreed to go into Committee on the present con-
dition of Ireland, Hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the
House would get up and move instructions as to what
they were to do with rsgard to Ireland. Suppose, for
instance, tie. Hon. Member for Hereford would get up,
and would move as an instruction about the removal of
what he culled the monster grievance of Ireland. That
was not at all unlikely. Well, then, there were many
other matters that would be discussed. The Hon. Mem-
ber for Stroud would no doubt get up, and move his in-
struction on the question of Irish grievances. He would
get up undoubtedly, and say that the best means of
stopping the murders in Ireland would be by feeding her
people—(Hear, hear)—and that he (Mr. Henley) cer-
tainly thought was one of the best means of improving
the social condition of Irelard.—(Hear, hear.) It was
made to appear by the returns that many of the outrages
in Ireland were not of an agrarian character, but no sen-
sible reasons for these outrages were given. He (Mr.
Henley) believed that the majority of them were really
attributable to the conduct of landlords. Then the Hon.
and Learned Member for Cork (Mr. O'Connell) would
no doubt propose something in the Committee, that
would have for its object the improvement of the present
tenure of land in Ireland. Some Hon. Gentlemen, too,
on his (Mr. Henley's) side of the House, would no doubt
propound some nostrums of their own. Suppose the
Noble Lord the Member for London were also to put in
his instruction in Committee—suppose the Noble Lord
were to say, "Look at the state of Ireland in 1842 ; see
whether the common law is not sufficient." He thought the
Noble Lord might very fairly say that, because he did
not suppose that anybody would say that the Arms
Bill was an invasion of the common law; he never heard
anybody say in that House that that was a measure
which had done either good or harm.—(Hear, hear.)
He believed that there was more trouble in pass-
ing the measure through that House than it had
caused to the people of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He had
certainly never yet heard any one complain that that
Bill had done any injustice. He believed that if the Go-
vernment governed Ireland firmly and justly, they would
feel no alarm as to the result which that conduct would
have on the people of that country. He believed that if
they put properly into force the common law, they would
no longer hear of the long catalogues of crime com-
mitted in Ireland. The common law had been properly
put in force in this country, and it had been found to
be sufficient. He believed, too, that the system of agi-
tation that was suffered to continue in Ireland tended,
in a great measure, to the commission of those fearful
outrages of which they were continually hearing. In
the 3 ears 1844 and 1845 hundreds of people attended at
the monster meetings. Great expectations, which have
not been fulfilled, were held out to them. Disorganisation
followed—the people were thrown into despair—and a
fearful number of outrages was the consequence. He had
looked very carefully over those returns, and he could
not find out on what grounds the Government called upon
the House to vote for this Bill. He believed that if they
meant to remedy the evils of Ireland, they could not effect
it by coercive measures like this. He was one of those
who thought that they could out aumod the condition of
the people except they set about improving their social
condition. They must give them the means of being fed
and educated. He had trespassed on the attention of the
House longer than he could have wished, but the subject
was of so much importance that he deemed it necessary
to state fully the reasons why he should vote against the
Bill. He had been at some pains in fully informing him-
self on the question, and be came to the conclusion, that
the Government had not made out a case to justify the
enactment of this measure. Ho believed, as far as he
could judge, that with a proper tribunal, properly used,
they would be able to put down crime in Ireland. Let
them increase the police force in Ireland, as had been re-
commended by the inhabitants of the disturbed counties.
He did not think that the Government had acted wisely
in attempting to conciliate first one political party and
subsequently another' He believed, that that policy
had not been beneficial to Ireland. He might be in
error, but he had given this subject a most careful con-
sideration. It was true, he might have formed an erro-
neous conclusion. Five counties, it had been said, were
in a disturbed state, but he did not think that the House
would be justified in passing such a coercive measure as
this with regard to the whole of Ireland.—(Hear.) He
was one of those who regretted much that there was so
much difference between the legislation with regard to
Ireland and England.—(Hear.) He wished that mea-
sures of the same kind were brought forward for the
benefit of both countries. He believed that no person
upon earth would vote for this measure, if it were to
extend to England.—(Hear.) He was determined to
vote for Irish measures on the same grounds as he
voted for English measures.—(Hear, hear.) Now he
would not vote for such a measure as this for England
upon the evidence that bad been laid before them, and
he was determined not to vote for this measure for Ire-
land on such evidence.—(Hear, hear.) He should,
therefore, vote against the second reading of this Bill.
Sir H. W. BARRON regretted that the persons
more immediately connected with the Government of
Ireland had not been in their places to have heard the
statements and arguments of the Hon. Member who had
just sat down. Ho considered his arguments were
formed upon common sense,
and were perfectly unan
swerable. He did not think that any English Member,
not under the influence of the Ministry, would dare to
vote for the Bill in its original state. The Bill would
-
be a complete failure, and would be a great source of an-
noyance to all parties. All measures of this nature had
failed, because they did not go to the root of the evil.
—(Hear, hear.) He believed that the disturbances
in Ireland were confined to two or three of
the midland counties in Ireland, and, in his opinion,
the common law was quite powerful enough to suppress
these outrages. If the stipendiary magistracy and th e
constabulary of the country were increased, they would
be able to put an end to these disgraceful scenes. It
was useless to say this could not be done. Within the
last ten years a much greater disturbance had existed in
Clare ; this was put down by the exertions of the Exe-
cutive. It was contrary to the principles of the British
constitution, to the dictates of common sense, and to
the feelings of humanity, to attempt to govern Ireland in
this manner. The Government must learn to govern
that country upon the same principles and by
the same laws by which she governed Ire-
land. The present measure was only a sop
to a party in Ireland who considered that nothing but
coercive measures were to be adopted for some portion
of their fellow countrymen. It was his opinion that the
Government sheuld provide the means of employment
for the peopleo specially agricultural employment, esta-
blish agricultural schools, and hold out inducements to
landlords to improve their estates, by advancing them sums
of money; they should also be assisted in the promotion
of their public works. The Government had hitherto
been very niggardly in their advances to that country ;
these advances had also been punctually repaid ; and
what was the greatest injury of all was that the people
of Ireland had been compelled to pay 5 per cent. for
these loans, while sums of money had been granted for
the promotion of public works in England at 3f percent.
Sir R. PEEL—What public works have had the
money at 3f per cent?
Sir H. W. BARRON—I have not the returns in my
hand ' • but from the returns which have been laid upon
the table of the House, I think it could be shown that
there were several loans which had been granted at 31
per cent. With regard to the question how they were
to govern Ireland without the Coercion Bill, he would
say that their course would be exceedingly easy if they
followed up the spirit in which the Bills relating to
Ireland had been introduced by the Secretary for Ireland.
He would, therefore, advise them to lay by coercion—
it would do no good; on the contrary, it would do a
great deal of harm, and would create distrust and inimi-
cal feeling towards the Government. He had no sym-
pathy with the perpetrators of the outrages in Ireland,
but he conceived that the only thing which would put
down crime would be employment, education, and sym-
pathy with the wants of the people. He could assure
them that the miseries of Ireland could not be removed
by one, or two, or three years of attention on the part of
Government; it would take a long course of conciliation,
and firmness in the discharge of justice.—(Hear, hear.)
He would vote against the Bill, not only
on account of the manner in which it was
introduced to the House, but because he believed its
principle was bad, and he was convinced it was unneces-
sary. From the manner in which the Bill was intro-
dnced he felt certain that the Government did not feel
that there was a necessity for the measure. It was
forced upon them by a party in Ireland ; for if it was not,
and the ciwomont felt 5 miniciatigus cirtigtiou of