The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-27 00:00:00

TILE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 27, 1845.

the wages of the agricultural labourer was 6s. per week. The
prosperity of the labourer did not depend on the low price of
corn. The Right Hon. Member for Portsmouth, the late

4,0
Right Hon. Gentleman himself. Now there was no
,'4etniltirlil at all in the Bill of the words " industrial residences,"
Irs, these words were introduced, the Bill wuuld not fulfil
e,latention of the Right Hon, Barenet himself.
iti4rd EBRINGTON hoped that no delay would take place
P'trig the Law of settlement Bill.
k!,!' R. PEEL said he would take this Bill irnmedia'ely
t the deci•ion of the House was taken on the Corn Bill, and
tithe Bill for the better Protection of Life and Property in

Bir:W . JOLLIFFE had paid great attention to the Bill,
tod
to had consulted magistrates and others concerning it, who
slietirred with him, in the opinion treat the Bill was one
Nei ought not to pass. In the present state, however, of
1,4'1 business, he would suggest, that his Hon. Friend should
draw his motion, and renew it when the Corn Bill had
"disposed of.
'tfter a few observations from Mr. P. SCROPE,
114 r. BANKES said, after what bad been stated by the
sight Hon. Baronet, he did not think he should deal properly
at !'ihe feeling of the House if he pressed his motion to a
414°11- He should, therefore, withdraw it; but, whilst he
katni. he begged leave to inform that Right Hon. Gentleman
'forded should avail himself of every opportunity which was
'Oed him by the rules of the House, to bring on a dis-
so'icin on the 'subject of the law of settlement, before the
The
was finally disposed of.
'he motion was, therefore, withdrawn accordingly.
CORN-LAWS.—ADJOURNED DEB eTE.
inn the order of the day for resuming the debate on the
Bill being read,
lr- FINCH wished to claim the indulgence of the House
tti t
kb. is second occasion of his addressing thesn on the present
esJec,t- The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Ports-
ko`to, had endeavoured to ,;how the inefficiency of the sliding
le as compared with the results even of a fixed duty, In
Lot (Mr. Finch's) opinion there was very little difference
fit a fixed duty and a sliding scale. It had been said
k' a fixed duty could not be erpetually maintained. But
6,"e were matters of very little moment. The principal
coestion was, what was the beat mode of giving fair protec-
, ulure. The Right Hn. Gentleman had also
tbo to as Tie
Vett tog thet proceedings which might ensue in the other
'4le en this subject. He (Mr. Finch) had always under-
thatin the other House, possessed constitutional rights as
ii`lefeasible as those possessed by this House, and if in
es wisdom, and the proper exercise of their just prerogative,
t'Y should think proper to reject the present measure, they
srt' fully justified in so doing, and were in no way amenable
s that olat House. In fact, nothing could be more equitable or
kit, or more for the benefit of the nation, if the other House
is're to reject this measure. He thought that the question
s'°!'red a fivefold revolution. First of all a social revolution
k
etslid. ensue. The result of free-trade must tend in an in-
t:4llg ratio to do away with the poor-laws. He conceived
,' I revolution in the social state of the country would be
lie first consequence of the repeal of the corn-laws. The
et°4- Gentleman then quoted from Malthus, Buchanan, and
tisern Smith, to show that principles of free-trade, when car-
,,'''' out to their fullest extent, necessarily involved the total
Peal of the poor-laws. The colonial system of the country
1:uld also undergo a change, and that was a very important
°tent of the question in consideration ltefore the House.
'Rain, the financial constitution of the country would also be
4*.a,tly affected by the proposed changes in the differential
;Less There was besides a two-fold political revolution in-
CO -I • '
est in these alterations. For upwards of a thousand years,
rot
lithe period of the Saxon rule, protection to the land had
n deemed a primary element in all political and fiscal ar-
Zgernents. There was a tendency in the organic changes
o 'eh were contemplated, not perhaps to overturn the
tarobe, but to give it a more democratic character. The
to—t- Gentleman then entered into a long statistical argument
Cnow the number aad value of the various interests in the
United Kingdom which would be more or less affected by the
dieration of the proposed measure. Considering the amount of
•°°se interests her Majesty's Ministers would be fully justified
crivr.elitiving themselvea of a portion of the responsibility by
Lung it on to the people at large by an appeal to the con-
4,itnencies. He was of opinion that the Right Hon. Baronet
It' the head of the Government, although an accomplished 1
statesman and a transcendent orator, was still as fallible as
ki• ,sel' mortals. The Right Hen. Gentleman, like the Arch-
tf,'"°P of Grena4a, preferred the speeches of his later days to
manufacturers
productions of his youth What, he would ask, would the
jeo think if a measure were brought forward
ttePardisinss the mercantile and manufacturing interests? He
I, 'tight, therefore, that some allowance should be made for the
PPrehension of the agriculturists. The whole quantity of
:4'l which would be disposable tor England from ail Europe,
ooding to the accounts from their consuls in the different
Places abroad, was 2,200,000 quarters. And from America
and
4 Canada the quantity was 800.000, making altogether
11)0,000 of quarters. He would ask them, would not this
,antity, if yearly import d into England, cause a glut and aanpb ' in the market, and have a most prejudicial effect
iNtt, ilthe quantity of wheat actually imports 4,300,000
o stLotrto ers altogether; but if, according to the previous calcula-
tile ' 9,000,000 of quarters were triennially admitted, he
05.:41 ght that the effect would be an inevitable paralysis of all
sreultural oeerations. The principle of protection was
q„PP°ried by Russia, Prussia, and most of the minor states of
Af'!insny ; the Ministers and Parliament of Holland. the
ss„„%nisters and Parliament of Belgium, of France, and of
yo rice; thus proving that the principle of protection was ad-
titor',.,ted by the greatest men of the most civilized nations of the
ee, '''. In 1836 and 1827, the exports of this country
I,e4Onted to 36 800,0001., and in 1844 to 58,000,000 i. ; thus
atta.ing that under the operation of protection, the country had
th, lued a most extraordinary degree of prosperity. (At
Is! Part of the Hon. Gentleman's speech, not a single soul
i4ll to be seen on the Opposition benches, Mr. flume, the
indi retnainicg Member, having charged his solitary position
cis gtine over to the Government side of the House. This
10d t 0 Lance attracted the attention of the Hon. Gentleman,
kroexcited general laugher. He proceeded to say that he
all ~,iyed his arguments were)o convincing as to put an end to
hadliPosition.—(Great laughter.) He perceived that he
othesnenoed all the brass gnus which they had mounted on the
twinedr side,_...*Laughter.) One Hon. Gentleman had main-
too his post as long as he was able, but, finding his position
!tot for him, he was at length obliged to surrender at dis-
cretion, This was surely an argument in favour of protection.
de_aughter,) The free-traders had gone about the country
on'ejoing themselves and deceiving every one else upon this
:portant question. He regretted seeing the light manner in
which this measure had been treated by those gentlemen who
t„'i;Pllorted her Majesty's Government. It was too bad that
heY ahoeld. not be resent that evening. Id, however. of
her being present during the debate that evnsteaening, the fact
4, there was but one Member (Mr. Home) present on the
sI Posite side of the le °use. It was proper that the country
isit'utel know this ; it was necessary that the agricultural corn-
ueunliet should be informed of this disrespect towards the gen-
tti!!'en in that House who supported, or rather advocated
during
interests. Tne Honourable Members could attend
(tear,
the time the safety of the measure was doubtful.—
lots ?IC, hear.) They could then be present, and make speeches
uting some three or four hours.—(Laughter.) He could
sure
them, however, that they would fad to hurry the mea-
bre through the House. He would, himself, continue with
b: speech.—(Laughter.) He felt that the present was a
i e,"tion involving the interests of the most loyal, the most eon-
bl'ent supporters of the Church and State, and for that reason
in common with other Hon Members, would give it his
mostoo strenuous opposition. It was said that the repeal of the
,ittrb-laws would operate upon our foreign relations to the ad-
totitage of this country. It wee also said that America would
our steadiest friend, but he • was of opinion that that
countrys
st would not abate her' demand one jot, but would, at the
r
th Moment of England being involved in a war, renew
tNenl•—(Hear, hear.) The HUM Member then proceeded to
t (1" the opinions of Mr. Grattan in support of protection to
itr'oulture, after which he said that he was at a loss to find out
• "_what the free-traders were consistent. They cried out
4tinst limiting trade, and yet they were for limiting the hours
Itt labour. He was also for lessening the hours of
et,°''''; lie was not for overworking the young persons,
lc° were now used more like slaves than human
tiolngs. Much bad been said against agricultural protec-
lie'', but he contended that that protection had never
4,71 legitimately carried out. If that bad been the case, the
t !oerers would have been better paid, and the distress said to
:..ist would be much less. The agricultural labourers could be
".1, according to the price of corn, and thus they would have
direct interest in the protective laws. He would now give a
roof of this, though they might be called chimerical fears.
kr k at the Liberal party, the Repealer', and the Church
th• tY. He would contend for it that many of those supported
this Measure because it was a bad measure. The enemies of
5 I
e, Church Establishment believed that a severance of Church
I:" State would be the result of the increased misery of the
eiti'le, and that the democratic principle would then bo more
tyeult. The repeaters also were in favour of it, because it
tb°4l(l, they conceived, bring them nearer the attainment of
" e,kt Measure. In fact, he could not conceive why the Govern-
`'soent had introduced this measure, except they laboured under
tIlll" strange delusion. These were his reasons foe opposing
1,18 measure. If those who concurred with him should succeed
) if their opposition the country would be grateful to them ; and
I they should fell, they would fall with honour.
1 h Lord RENDLESHAM said it was not often that he
4nabled this House, and lie would not do so now at
1 ti'Y length. But upon a question like the present, he
I aid think the country had a right to expect a detail of the rea-
I (4's that actuated lion. Members in the vote they should give
I °nthis measure,- and also the country, in his opinion, should
informed of the reasons that actuated Ministers in changing
their opinion upon this question. The Noble Lord then read a
long letter of Mr. Huskisson, which he contended established
tile necessity for protective duties upon corn. His Lordship
'lien went on to say that he could see no more reason now fur
doing away with these duties then there was many sears ago.
iLle begged to remind the House, that in the agricultural dis
'ricts the rate of wages entirely depended upon the price of
agricultural produce. When the farmer received a remunerat-
inge price for his produce, he natur illy raised the amount of his
4‘bourers' wages. A short time ago he sent for one of his
,ee oants a large farmer, and that farmer stated that he would
obliged to throw a great quantity of land into pasture, and
discharge one half of his labourers, if this measure should pass.
'lr, FELLOWS begged to assure the House that it was
Tit his intention to make a long speech. He intended to give
1,4 support to those who opposed this measure, and in doing so
° believed he would be acting in accordance with the senti-
ments of those whom he had the honour to represent. In
41. he was is favour of protection ; and if he should have
changedji his opinion since, he would long since have ceased to
ss',d a seat in this House, for, after such a change, he would
l':itiound to return to the hands of his constituents the trust
Y tad reposed in him. In speaking of this question he would
Nt go so far bock as the year 1600; but he could assure the
oust that he was aware of many districts of country which
at
one time grew nothing but reeds and rushes, but no e,
ruderstil the laws of protection, producing large quantities of
tsbs,eat ; and in other districts, where but a comparatively
ball quantity was produced a short time ago, that quantity
t,Yo of late been very much increased. He could not believe
failure
this measure had been rendered necessary by reason of the
:litire of the potato crop in Ireland, unions he heard it as,erted
have
the Hon. Baronet himself; because this measure could not
hltve that effect, at least it would not have the effect of stop-
'l4g the progress of the apprehended famine, inasmuch as it
tsonld occupy some weeks in discussion before it cold be passed.
;:e thought it might be stated, that sending corn to Ireland
that
he perfectly useless, unless they provided the people of
country, in the first instance, with the means of purchas-
le •
14 it,_.( Hear. hear.) He was not one of those who spoke
Ir*iih levity of the misfortunes of that unhappy country, as be
ikoold have given all th e assistance in his power to alleviate the
1, Pending scarcity threatened in that quarter; but he should
reitest most strongly against bringing forward measures of a
rnianent nature to meet temporary exigencies—( Hear.)
° would ask what the effect of the measure would he nit
Prices--whether stis —whether to lower them to 40s. per quarter, or to
1, le io 60s. per quarter ? He believed the effect would be to
4:er them considerably, and at the same time to cause great
actuation. Some Hon. Gentlemen, members of the Anti-
tis,onlaw League, thought the agriculturists had nothing
it did at resent He believed the land capable of producing
kore p • '
it than it did at present, but they wanted time to improve
ghee, make it more produ'ctive ; and he hoped to see the day,
ite, such being the condition of the land, they would require
for rte or no protection.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
if, Yortsmuuth asked Hon. Members on his side of the House
,_ basing rejected the proposition of Government, they were
PrePared No__ • with another measure as satisfactory to the country ?
per`ree, his answer to that was, that the agriculturists would he
eteincnila satisfied to remain as they were.— ( Hear, hear.)
4;1. , the Hon. Gentleman asked, were they prepared to un-
ks,s!'' ke the responsibility of defeating the measure? For his
'1" Part he should say he was perfectly prepared for any re-

sponsibility when acting in a manner he believed to
be fair and conscientioue.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
It was very well for the Right lion. Baronet at the head of
her Majesty's Government to fell them that he looked to pos-
terity for his reward, and for the Right lion. Baronet the I
First Lord of the Treasury to sly that he buried in oblivion all
his past declaratious. Such might be sufficient for them, but
it would not be sufficient for the country.—( Hear, hear. )
The Government might think there was a settlement of the
question, but he believed, that before many months, when the
people would be called upon to exercise their elective fran-
chise, they would tell the Government what their opinion was
in plain terms.—(Hear, hear.) Speaking for himself, he
could no longer place the slightest confidence in a Government
that had betrayed the country; and in future he should look
with great suspicion on every measure that might emanate
from the Treasury benches—( Hear, hear)—and he believed,
when the time arrived, the country would show the Govern-
ment that they disapproved of their conduct, by dispensing
ever after with their services.—(Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Air. FULLER, in which he was
understood to oppose the measure of her Majesty's Ministers,
. Air. P. BOIL 111 WICK said he was glad to perceive the
Hon. Alernber for Lambeth in his place, as astonishment had
been expressed at his (Mr. Borthwiek's) side of the House
that no answer had been given to the statistics of that Hon.
Member. However' he hoped the House would indulge him
for a short time whilst he proceeded to refute those statistics.
In the year 1797, and (luring the five following years, we had
not only a free trade in corn, but a bounty given upon its im-
portation. He would quote " Macphereon's Annals of Com-
merce :"—lt is stated that it was found necessary to hold out an
inducement for the importation of corn, and therefore a bounty
was granted on all foreign corn imported. For every quarter
of grain weighing -t4olbs, 20s. ; for every quarter of wheat
weighing 4241b'., 16s. ; and for every cwt. of wheat and flour
Gs. In the five years to which he was now referring the
country had abundant libations of the sweets of free trade ; but
what was the effect ? In 1797, the price of wheat was 775. ld.;
in 1798, it nas 50s. 3d. ; in 799, it was 675. 6d. ;in 1700, i
was 113 s. ; and in 1701, it was 116 s. ; and, if the Hon. Gen-
tlemen would allow him to quote an additional year, they
would find that in 1802, the price ranged beyond 116 s. Taking
any five years of protection about the same period, they
would find that the price never varied more than 7s. per
quarter. Mr. Canning had said in that House
on that occasion, that nothing brought forward there
was so deceitful as figures, wi h the exception of facts—( A
laugh)—and he (Mr. Borthwick) said on the present occaeion
that they had something more subtle than figures, " and more
slippery than facts," and that was the principle upon which
public men proposed to conduct the Government. lion. Gen-
tlemen would believe him when he quoted the authority of the
Right Hon Baronet at the head of the Government, when, on
a former occasion, he advocated protection, an i adduced in its
support p. ecisely the same arguments and data which he now
adduced in support of free trade. When addressing his consti-
tuents from Tarnworth, he had quoted M'Culloch in support
of protection, and he now quoted the same words from the same
author in support of free trade. The Right Hon. Baronet had
appealed in several instances to the country. He had done so
in the case of East Gloucestershire; and the result was the
return of the Noble Lord (the Marquis of Worcester) who
made such an excellent speech the other night against the urea-
sure. All the recent elections showed that the feelings of the
country were against the policy of the Government. He had
almost forgotten Nottinghamshire, where also the representative
of the Government was defeated under very painful circum-
stances.—( Hear.) He ( Air. Borthwick) did not speak as the
advocate of any mere political party, however great, but he
stood there to record his vote on a great issue—a great question
between the powerful few and the feeling many—between ac-
cumulated capital and suffering toil. That was the question
they had to settle, and on which he would record his vote
against the attempted domitiation of capital. He stood there
on the recorded words of Burke—that the rich were but the
.pensioners or bankers of the poor, and that it was the duty of
the Legislature to see that the latter were protected from any
attempted mal-administration of the funds placed in the hands
of these pensioners or bankers. It had been said that the
feeling of the Canadas was in favour of the measure, but he had
recently received a letter from a gentleman in Montreal, which
stated that the news of the measures of her Majesty's Govern-
ment had depreciated property there at least 50 per cent. The
residents of the colony considered faith had been broken with
them in regard to the Canada Corn Bill, passed in 1842.
It was the duty of the Government to protect the colonies
from the competition of their neighbours, instead of exposing
them to that competition, as would be the case with the
Canadas and the United States. They ought to bear always
in mind the opinion of Burke, that it was most dangerous to
tamper with agriculture. Even the greatest political econo-
mists, Mr. Deacon Hume, Mr.' M'Culloch, and also Mr.
Ricardo, and Dr. Adam Smith, opposed abdolute free trade in
corn as chimerical and inexpedient. They ought to be guided
by the wisdom of their ancestors, which the Hon. Member for
Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller) had attempted to turn into ridicule.
According to that Hon. Member they were to abandon the
light of Bacon and Thurlow, and the wisdom of Hume, with
the other great luminaries of English law and history. All
these, as well as the wisdom of Burke, and Pitt, and Fox, and
Sheridan, and Grattan, were to be set aside as nothing by
the Honou-able Member for Liskeard, and the Honour-
able Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Vernon Harcourt).
He had listened the other evening to the speech of the Hon.
and Learned Member for the university of Dublin i Mr.
Shaw)--a speech which was most satisfactory, and one it
would not be easy for the supporters of the present measure to
grapple with. That speech the Government had not yet re-
plied to, and the Noble Lord this Member for the city of
London (Lord J. Russell) had not thought it prudent to touch
it. In fact, that Noble Lord left the Right Hon. Baronet to
fleht his own battle, waiting till a favourable opportunity, af er
the passing of this measure, occurs to turn him ont of office and
take his pl
ace.—( Hear, hear.) Yet the Lord Chancellor
asked them on that side, what measures they intended to intro-
duce, if they were able to form a government, with his Grace
the Duke of Richmond at their head. It was for her Majesty
to name the ministry, but it was for the individual Members of
the House to give an honest vote; and could they, therefore,
vote for the measures of the Right Hon. Baronet, believing
as they did, that those measures were not calculated to be of
benefit to the country? He was anxious that it should be un-
derstood that he recorded his vote against this measure, not be-
cause he wished to oust the Government, but because he could
not shut his eyes to the extreme consequences that would
follow it. lie trusted that the interests of the agriculturists
would long, despite of these measures, be one of the objects
to be recognised by a Briti-1 House of Parliament. 11,
traced that the interests of the agricultural labourers would
not be left to the tender mercies of the manufacturer. He
thanked the House for the attention paid him, and he hoped
that lion. Gentlemen opposite would follow the example of the
Gentlemen on his side of the loose, and never rise till they
had something to say—(Laughter)—and having said so, to sit
down again immediately.—(Continued laughter.) He would
oppose the measure introduced by Government.
Mr. CHARLES BULLER said that he was exceedingly
obliged to the Hon. Member for Evesham for the very flat-
tering personal compliments he had paid to him, but the Hon.
Member did him less than justice when he accused him of
laughing at or ridiculing Hon. Members opposite for following
the wisdom of their ancestors.—( Hear, hear.) What he did
marvel at was the extraordinary perverseness of those Hon.
Gentlemen opposite; who adhered to the obsolete dogmas, the
" wise sayings" of their ancestors, while neglecting the grand
landmarks of true wisdom and experience. The lion. Member
for Evesham came forward with great self-complacency, and
quoted these sayings, as in favour of the policy he himself
advocated, and Hon. Gentlemen behind him vigorously cheered
these quotations, whether happily applied or not, so long asthey
were made by one of their own party.—( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) If he (Mr. C. Buller) had wished to quote the
wisdom of their ancestors against restrictive laws on the
food of the people, he should assuredly have quoted the
same sentiments which the Hon. Member had more
than once quoted from the celebrated Burke, as warning them
of the folly of tampering with the food of the people.
There had always been one great feature in the wisdom of our
ancestors compared with ourselves, and that was the compara-
tive brevity of their debates.—( Laughter.) He did not be-
lieve that there was a parallel, either in our own or any other
country, to the fact of a debate lasting three weeks upon a
single subject. He was willing to do justice to the strength
and variety of the arguments of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, but
he must say they would have done their arguments just as
much justice if they had made their speeches shorter. He
would not now enter into the question of free trade. It was
too late in the stage of the business to discuss that subject.
The good sense of makjnd had made that the general opinion
of the world long ago. Since the year 1815, the whole course of
the policy of successive Governments had been to diminish the
pres,ure of the corn-laws upon the people. They had
shown by their policy that the corn-laws were an exception
to the sound principles of trade ; and, in dealing with
the corn-laws, their main object had always appeared to be to
get rid of them es speedily and as safely as possible. Hon.
Gentlemen opposite had thought proper to applaud Gentlemen
on his side of the House for their consistency. lie could claim
no merit on that account for himself, because, up to two or
three years ago, he had voted for restriction on the trade in
corn. While, therefore, he defended the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite, he was defending himself. For some time past, it
had been evident that the opinions of the Right Hon. aronet
were undergoing a change. For several years the arguments
which had been used to support the corn-laws had been given
up one after the other, until nothing was left for them to
stand upon. lie thought the Government might have
commenced their change of opinion earlier. He would,
however, put it to any reasonable man, whether, under
the present circamstances of the country it would have been
possible to maintain the corn-laws longer. He would frankly
avow that his opinion had been very much changed since he
first entered that House. Who could say that they had never
changed their opinions? A change like that to which he
alluded always was gradual, and no one could tell the precise
moment when it occurred. Hon. Gentlemen opposite had
been pleased to laugh at the famine in Ireland, ancltwould not
ail.mit that as an argument in favour of the present measure.
Now Hon. Gentlemen opposite had in this shown their incon-
sistency, for nothing could be more marked than their tone in
the first debate on this subject. They then admitted the great
distress in Ireland, and that it was the duty of the Government
to provide immediately for it.—(No, no. ) It was not until
they found their own argument cut front under them that they
denied that they had adopted such an argument. It did appear
to him to be most extraordinary for Hon. Gentlement to come
forward and on such evidence deny the existence of such an
evil as the famine in Ireland. They now came forward
and said there was no famine in Ireland, and yet they had
only a short time ago said that the Government ought to have
provided for it by a temporary measure. The Right Hon.
Member for the University of Dublin, (Mr. Shaw) came for-
ward with private letters, and with stories told by one man
to another; and upon this authority he denied the existence
of the famine. The price of potatoes had been quoted as an
argument. Why :that was worth nothing. The potatoes were
perishing, and, therefore, they were lavishly consumed in
Ireland, and this, of course, would have a tendency to keep
down the price, because all dealers would be anxious to get rid
of their stocks. In an article that was: not so immediately
perishable, perishable, the supply of course would affect the price, and
by the price the extent of supply could be judged of;
the case of the famine in Ireland, the argument as to the
price of potatoes was not by any means a sound one. But
even this argurnentlwas notajupported by the facts, as the price of
potatoes in Ireland had doubled within the last few months.
This terrible condition of the Irish people was one which
lion. Members opposite could not deny, but, as he had al-
ready stated, they admitted its existence; and while doing se
some of them have thrown out suggestions as to the mode in
which it ought to be relieved, but these had been sufficiently
answered by the Government themselves. They were going
to relieve the immediate wants of the Irish people, aided by
the assistance of private individuals ; and, as a proof that some
Hon. Members opposite admitted the soundness of this policy,
lie might direct attention to the fact that the lion, and Gal-
lant Member for Lincoln had offered to subscribe 3001. to-
wards carrying our this ob.,ect.
Colonel SIBTHORP—I never made such an offer, but I
should like to know what you intend to subscribe.—(Cries of
" Order, order.")
Mr. CHARLES BULLER said he had no intention of
offending the Hon. and Gallant Member, in alluding to this
circumstance ; on the contrary, he a ought he was stating
something that was to the credit of the Hon. an,l Gallant
Member, and he was under the impression that the lion. and
Gallant Alembi r, feeling it to he so, when reminded of his
promise, would come forward and stand to his word. To re-
turn, however, to the subject before the House, the people of
Ireland were starving, and the Government had adopted a right
and proper contrivance for removing this distress. Some Hon.
Members, however, complained that the Government ought
not to have proposed a repeal of the corn-laws, but to have

- -- -
met the exigencies of the moment by throwing open the ports.
Did Hon. Members, however, imagine that the ports could be
opened without an alteration in the corn-laws following such
a proceeding ? The ports were thrown open, in lBe6, by Mr.
Canning, and what followed that step ? Why, the Govern-
ment came down to the House of Commons, and, after asking
for an Act of Indemnity to themselves, called upon the House
to make an alteration in the then existing laws. Now, he
wanted to ask Hon. Members opposite a question with regard
to this temporary suspension of the law under the pressure
of the Irish famine. He wanted to know when they would
propose to shut the ports? That was a material question.
Would any Hon. Gentleman take upon himself to say how
long the potato disease was likely to last? True, one Hon.
Gentleman had consoled them, by producing a sample of po-
tatoes grown by the Duke of Portend. This potato was free
from disease ; but they could not conclude, from such a fact,
that the disease was at an end. By examining samples of the
crop at the present moment, who could tell whether the po-
tato crop of next year would be a failure or not? The example
of America was before them, and it afforded a terrible warning
of the increasing nature of the disease. How could any Go-
vernment, then, with these facts before their eyes, avoid taking
some decisive steps for meeting the emergency ? From the
scarcity of supplies generally in Europe, he gathered that this
measure would produce little or no alteration of the price of
corn in this country. Nothing was to he feared, then, upon
that point ; but it was contended that the change would throw
large bodies of labourers out of employ. It was errone-
ous to suppose so, for a more fitting time for the
alteration, avoiding- such a result, could hardly have been
selected than the present. Railways and other public works
were largely in the course of construction, and labour was
never in so great demand. 'acre was a third reason for the
alteration taking place at the present time, namely, the influ-
ence it would have upon the policy of other nations. It would
influence France, it would influence Germany, and it would
influence America. On these grounds, therefore, he thought
Hon. Members opposite were wrong in finding fault with the
change proposed by the Hon. Baronet. The Right Hon.
Baronet maintained the corn-laws as long as he could—he
maintained them for the interest of Hon. Gentlemen opposite ;
and if any one bad to complain at all, he thought it was the
Members of the Opposition. Hon. Members opposite ought to
thank the Right Hon. Baronet for his past policy, and join with
him now in yielding to the pre-sure of irresistible circumstances.
The most discreditable course which the. Right Hon. Baronet
could have pursued would have been that which they said he
ought to have pursued—( Hear, hear)—for that course would
in fact have been this, that a public man who had changed
his opinions upon a great question should persist, contrary to
his convictions and conscience, for the purpose of pleasing a
particular party. But he had honestly come forward to refute
toe fallacies from which he had been freed. But if the Hon.
Gentleman on the other side of the House told him that it
was the duty of the chief Minister of the Crown to vote and
act, contrary to his conscience, to please a particular party, he
conceived that the post of that individual would be one not of
honour or of dignity, but the most dishonourable to which a
man could he appointed.—( Hear, hear.) And now there was
only one other argument on which he would venture to trouble
the House on that occasion. It was an argument which had
been put forward by an Hon. Member, whom he regretted
not to see in his place. It was this—that the present Parlia-
ment had no right to do this and that ; the course which the
Right Hon. Baronet should have proposed should have been to
suggest the dissolution of Parliament, for the purpose of taking
fhe opinion and sense of the people upon this important ques-
tion. Now,to a certain extent, he ( Mr. Buller) was bound
to admit that there might be some validity in that argument, if
he thought that this repeal of the corn-laws would really have
been carried by the sense of the country. If he could see any
unequivocal proofs of that, he should say to the Hon. Baronet,
"the expeeiment which you are about to try is not only un-
fair but most exceedingly dangerous—(Protectionist cheers)—
because if the sense of the country is so clearly against you,
the inevitable consequence of your act will be that
the new Parliament, which must be called into
being in a year or two—( Hear, hear)—will reverse your Act
fur the repeal of the corn-laws."—(Hear, hear.) Well, now,
he would say, that if any Hon. Gentleman on the other si le of
the House could show him that the inevitable consequence of
an appeal to the country would be the return to Parliament of
a majority of representatives in favour of protection to agri-
culture, he should be perfectly willing to have a dissolution of
the present Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) But, really, after the
decisive majority by which the question had been carried, he
must say that he could conceive no ground for supposing that
the gentlemen opposite—the protection party—would increase
,heir numbers by one single unit in the event of a new Parlia-
ment.—( Hear, hear.) Well, then, he would say also, that
even if they should procure a small majority in favour of pro-
tection, they must knot suppose that the country would
quietly submit to their decisions. The Parliament that might
be e'ected must, like the present, act in conformity with the
opinion of the intelligent portion of this country ; and, unless
the Right Hon. Baronet were certain that the new Parliament
which would be returned after the dissolution of the present
one would be one that would maintain the present corn-laws, it
would be a most culpable act on his part to put the country to
the expense and turmoil attending an election which could
produce no good result. He (Mr. Buller) did not think it
advisable that the country should be put to trouble merely for
the purpose of pleasing the whims of the protectionist party.
But what would be the effect of a majority the other way?
Why, that they would have a Parliament, of which the
minority would be pledged one way and the majority
the other, and the legislation would be carried on by a party
whose opinions were contrary to those of the majority of the
intelligent people of this country. And he believed that the
consequence would be that the people would cry out for a second
Reform Bill of a nature far more formidable than what any
Hon. Member could anticipate.—(Hear, hear.) Hon. Mem-
bers in favour of protection had said that the election which
had lately taken place in Westminster wad a proof that the
people were also in favour of protection. Now, he could
scarcely understand how the returning of a consistent free-
trader could be an evidence of their feelings in favour of pro-
tection. --( Hear, hear.) He had certainly heard it stated that
the Duke of Richmond had 490 voters ready to come up on an
emergency in favour of a protectionist candidate, but no such
candidate had ventured to introduce himself to the notice of
the constituents, and he (Mr. Buller) must, on those grounds,
conclude that the people of Westminster were decidedly in
favour of free trade.—( Hear, hear.) He would wish to ask
Hon. Gentlemen opposite whether they really anticipated that
in the event of an election a majority of votes would be recorded
in favour of protectionist candidates? Why, they knew that
the contrary would be the result of an appeal to the country.
—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible for them to get re-
turned by the large constituencies of the country. The
o*eat counties would not return them. They might get re-
turned for the small agricultural boroughs, but it would be
impossible for them to be returned by the great county of
Lancashire. They knew that very well. They would also
lose the great constituency of the West Riding.—("Hear," and
" No, no.") They would also lose the' great metropolitan
constituencies —(Cries of " Hear, hear," and " No, no.")
But if they did get a majority, that majority would be impo-
tent to keep their places—they would bring the House of Com-
mons tumbling about their ears. They talked very largely
about their county representatives. They believed that they
would obtain the representation of Northampton and Glou-
cestershire. His Noble Friend, the Member for the West
Riding of Yorkshire (Lord Morpeth) had entered that House
as the representative of a constituency which had sent him
there to support the total repeal of the corn-laws. And he
believed that that Noble Lord would soon have a colleague
to support him in those views in the event of a ,new elec. I
Lion.—(Protectionist cries of " No, no.") Those two
Honourable Members would then represent as many peo-
ple
as were represented by twenty-three of the
county Members. Now, he would not take into consideration
berough Members,
tke but he would say, as a fact, that the
representatives of Middlesex, Lancashire, and Yorkshire,
would represent the greater portion of the people of England.
They must, therefore, tremble at the result of a dissolution of
Parliament. Even if they were successful, they must tremble
It the consequences of their own success, for he would tell
them that the minority of the representatives represented the
%ye:llth and intelligence of the majority of the people of this
country. He, therefore, warned them to look at the ground
on which they were treading ; and he begged of them, before
they determined to persevere in their present policy, to recol-
lect that there were questions yet to be settled of far greater
importance than that even of the corn-laws. His own belief
was, that the course which had been taken by the Right Hon.
Baronet was a wise and statesmanlike course. They had
heard much of true Conservative policy. He believed
that never did the Right Honorable Baronet show a more
sagacious foresight into the true nature of conservative policy
--(Protectionists' cries of " Oh, oh !")—than when he pro-
posed to repeal those laws, which were the only real cause of
the heart-burnings ant divisions amongst the people of Eng-
land, and which gave them a right to demand their repeal.
Lord GEORGE BEN TINCK said that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, commenced his
observations by stating that the universal common sense of all
mankind were agreed in the principles of free trade. Why, he
( Lord G. Bentinck) thought the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman looked to the opinions of the United States of
America, of the monarch and people of Prussia, of the people
of France and her Government • the Zollverein of Germany,
and the opinions of Russia. Hef should have paused before
he came to the conclusion, that the united sense of all
mankind was in favour of free trade.—(Hear, hear.) He
( Mr. Buller) was something like the tailors of Tooley-street,
who mistook their opinions for those of the united people of
England.—( Hear and laughter.) He had mistaken the
opinions of his party for these of the majority of the country.
In his observations he had alluded to the alleged potato famine
in Ireland. He (Lord G. Bentinck) believed that the allega- I
lions that had been made by the First Minister of the Crown
at the opening of Parliament, respecting the potato famine in
Ireland, were gross delusions.—( Hear, hear.) The papers
that had been laid upon the table of the House, and the accounts
,vhich they received daily, stated the average price of potatoes
in the more important towns of Ireland at a fraction under
4d. a stone, and he could not therefore conceive that the people
of that country were in such a distressed condition as had been
represented by the Members of the Government.—( Hear.)
When the people of England learnt that the average price of
potatoes in Ireland did not quote up to 4d. a stone, he really
did not think they could be persuaded to believe in the existence
of a potato famine in that country. From the return made on
the 24th of January, and also from the prices current of the
markets in Ireland, it appeared that prices were falling in that
market instead of rising. They had also heard that several ship-
loads of potatoes had left Ireland for NV ales and Cumberland.
--(Protectionist cheers.) He (Lord George Bentinck) had
snec-eded with considerable difficulty in forcing the Right
Honourable Baronet to a declaration that, in his opinion,
had a free trade in corn existed in the year 1836, when the
price of wheat was 46e. and not as stated at 395., the prices
would not have been reduced. He (Lord George Bentinck)
had calculated from the Parliamentary returns of the prices
of wheat in ten different countries in Europe, that
wheat could have been brought into this country and sold
At a profit at a price of 323. 'lid., being 13s a qr. . less than the
ds madeell other
charges to Mark-lane, as in the former case, would give as a
freightcaleula t iaonn
referenceav erage
t o price
thein
year Eng England.
inthcleudsainmge
result that wheat could be, sold with a profit at a price of
295. 10td., being about 10s. lower than the lowest price of
wheat in this country. He hoped he hod shown to
the satisfaction of the House, that the fears of
the farmers were not altogether visionary. The
Ministers, in all their speeches to his side of the House,
stated that free trade in corn would have the effect of enhanc-
ing rather than lowering the prices. But they no sooner finished
their address than they turned round to the free-traders and de-
clared that their object was to obtain cheap bread—( Hear. )
—and the time is gone by when rents can be eked out by the
sufferings of the poor.—(Hear, hear.) It has been argued
that free ti ado in corn is necessary to procure steadiness in
the prices throughout the country; and it has
been made ono of the principal charges against the
present law that it has not produced a single
steadiness of price, but rather a great fluctuation. He was
ready to meet Hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the House as
to that fart. Gentlemen around him had not abandoned the
sliding-scale, and he believed that a large portion of the agri-
cultural community were in favour of the present corn-law,
and in the year 1842 the prices under its operation in this
country, had been subjugated to less fluctuation than to any
other market in the world. The Right Hon Gentleman then
went into various details, for the purpose of showing that fo-
reign wheat could be imported into this country, from nantzic
and other places, at such a price as to swamp completely all
attempts at competition on the part of the British farmer. The
fact of 'there being 609,000 qrs. of wheat in bond in October
last, proved that the sliding scale, and the duty even of 18s.,
per quarter, were no impediment to its importation. He c
in-
tended that the Right lion. Baronet was wrong in stating that

Chancellor of th'e Exchequer, called upon them (the protec-
t' onists) to say what course they would adopt under the cir-
cumstances. He had no hesitation in repeating what he had
said on the night of the great debate, that there was no ne-
cessity whatever for opening the ports, and that the rumours
respecting the failure of the potato crop were not founded on
truth. When the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to open the
ports, there were only three in the Cabinet to concur in opinion
with him; and a noble individual, possessed of great influence, said
that he believed the reports of the scarcity and failure of the potato
crop were greatly exaggerated, but if they were founded in
truth, and if a famine really was approaching, that the ports
would open themselves. His friends around him concurred in
that cpinion.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of her Majesty's Government, when at the point of having
the sweets of office dashed from his lips, asked them at his side
of the House for their support. Now, he would give an answer
to that, It was not till the year 1841 that the Government asked
for something like a reduction, and after that they proposed a
fixed duty ; subsequently to that, the Noble Lord the Member
for London, found out that something was brewing in her Ma-
jesty's Government, and it was then he sought to outbid them.
The advice which he (Lord George Bentinck) had given the
House and the country on the part of his friends was, to follow
the advice of Dr. Bailey, and to take no more of the remedies
which were propounded by the opposite side of the House,
supposing even they were to come into office. With respect
to the Right Hon. Gentleman on the Treasury bench having
alluded to his (Lord G. Bentinck's) speech as a poetical one, he
(the Right Hon. Baronet) must have been thinking—like the
man who was said to be an object worthy the envy, if not the
admiration of the gods—( Laughter)—he must have been like
a gentleman who was fishing for the budget—(Laughter)—and
no doubt he was fishing up for the budget. The
Noble Lind on the opposite side of the House,
when he found out that he was about to be
dismissed from office made a virtue of their condition, and
then went out on the cry of cheap bread. The Noble Lord
and his Hon. Colleagues were then like pirates, who rather
than surrender their ship were determined to apply the torch to
the magazine.—( Laughter.) He thought the present Ministry
were also Comparatively pirates, for they had pirated the opi-
nions and principles of the Noble Lord, nay, they had gone
farther, and even pirated the principles and the speeches of the
Anti-Corn-law League.—(Laughter.) They had applied the
torch to the magazine of the state vessel, and
they would assuredly partake of the danger. But
he could not compare the dare-devil courage of the pirate,
who in the extremity of the storm, applied the torch to the
magazine. That was not the course of the Ministry—far from
it.—( Hear, hear.) They had been entru'ted with the care of
a ship, and what did they do ? The commander had led her
upon a lee shore—he brought her upon the breakers—(Cheers)
—and under the guns of the enemy's battery—(Cheers)—while
the crew were asleep in their hammocks, the commander scut-
tled the ship, with the assistance of the sentinel, and the master,
and the mate, and then they stole the compass, and skulked
away in the long-boat, and attempted to sell to the enemy the
gallant crew who had saved them.—(Loud cheers from the
Ministerial side of the House.) But the captain judged of that
gallant crew by their own craven hearts—(Renewed and pro-
loneeed cheering from the Ministerial side of the House)—but
still they were Lot thrown into dismay and confusion ; they ral-
lied and took the ship off the breakers, and would, eventually,
carry her into port.—( Great cheering.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he rose at an early hour of the
evening for the purpose of addressing the House on this ques-
tion ; but not having been able to do so until now, he would
not wish to begin at this late hour of the night, and, therefore,
he moved that this debate be now adjourned.—( Hear.)
The debate was then adjourned.
Upon the motion of the other orders of the day being read,
Lord G. BENTINCK moved that the House do now
adjourn, which, being seconded, strangers were ordered to
withdraw ; but no division took place.
On our re-admission to the gallery, we found _ _

Lord G. BENTINCK on his legs, in explanation of the
fact of adjournment. The Noble Lord was quite inaudible in
the gallery.
Mr. YOUNG followed in reply.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that his Hon. Friend the
Secretary to the Treasury had informed him that he had a
communication to make from the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of the Government, with the view of making some ar-
rangement with respect to the Irish Coercion and the Corn
Importation Bill. It was arranged between them, and with,
as he (Lord G. Bentinck) understood, the entire concurrence
of the Right Honourable Baronet, that if the party on that
side of the House would not provoke a discussion on the
question put by the N, ble Lord, the Member for London, the
third reading of the Corn-law Bill would not be taken until
after Easter. Their party, therefore, passed the matter,
sub silentio, according to the terms of their agreement, and it
was not until afterwards, when he received a communication
from the Hon. Member for Cavan, that he was aware that
the First Lord of the Treasury was no party to this arrange-
ment. He merely stated this to the House, that it
might know that the misunderstanding WAS not attributable to
him or to the party with which he was connected.
Mr. YOUNG said that he had expressly guarded himself in
his interview with the Noble Lord by saying that he was not
authorised by the Right-Hon. Baronet to make any proposition
on the part of Government. The Noble Lord seemed to have
recognised this qualification, for within ten minutes after he
expressed himself thus;—" Then the agreement is no agree-
ment after all." He afterwards wrote to the Noble Lord,
stating that he had been acting throughout without the au-
thority of the Right Hon. Baronet. If the Noble Lord did
recollect aright, he (Mr. Young) had made answer to one of
his suggestions, that he could not entertain this point at all, and
therefore would not mention the matter to the Right Hon.
Baronet. He could only repeat, that throughout the whole
matter, it was without the authority of the Government.
Sir R. PEEL said that it would be necessary for him to-state
that his Hon. Friend was not authorised directly or indirectly
by the Government to enter into any arrangement or engage-
ment with the Noble Lord, and he (Sir R. Peel) came down
to the House without an idea that there was any specific
engagement entered into. He should regret if the Noble
Lord and his friends had lost any advantage. He thought they
had not, for if tine Noble Lord would recollect, he (Sir R. Peel )
had distinctly stated in his place that he would give precedence
to the Irish Coercion Bill, but to nothing else.
Mr. THORNELY said that a mot important question arose
out of this debate, and he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet
if the Corn Bill seas not to be read a third time until after
Easter, because if not the country ought to be aware of it.
Mr. DISRAELI hoped that her Majesty's Government
would state whether it was possible the third reading of the
Bill would take place before Easter.
Mr. HUDSON did not see much reason for pushing the
measure forward ; for though it was said great stagnation of
trade took place from the present state of suspense, he be-
lieved much greater stagnation of trade would follow if the
Bill passed than what now existed. The country laboured
under no anxiety for the passing of the Bill. If the Noble
Lord, the Member for the city of London, had made any
engagement with her Majesty's Government on the subject,
perhaps that Noble Lord, if requested by the Right Hon.
Baronet, would release the Government from the engagement.
Mr. ORMSBY GORE said he would not be bound by
any arrangement that might have been made respecting the
close of the debate. If he saw it necessary he would move
the adjournment of the debate to-morrow night, in order
to express his opinions.
Lord G. BENTINCK said, there was no bargain at all
on his part, beyond an understanding expressed on behalf of
a number of his friends, that the debate should be allowed to
conclude the present week.
Mr. YOUNG said, that he was not authorised by the
Right Hon. Baronet to make any specific arrangement as to
the mode in which the Corn Bill and the Coercion Bill were
to be taken up.
Sir R. PEEL repeated that he had never authorised, either
directly or indirectly, any arrangement but the one stated by
the Noble Lord ; and when he came down to the House he did
not conceive that the Noble Lord was under that impression.
He thought it was of the utmost importance that the Bill
should be passed before Easter, and every effort would be made
on his part to pass the Bill in that time. He might ask those
of his colleagues who were with him on Friday, to bear him
out in this statement ; the question was agitated among them,
whether the Irish Coercion Bill should be lead the first time
before the Corn Bill, thus leaving no assumption on their
mind that any arrangement had ben entered into with the
Noble Lord.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was absolutely necessary that no
concealment whatever should be made in respect to what had
passed at the meeting, to which the Right Hon. Baronet had
referred. They then considered whether they should proceed
with the corn-laws, without taking any step in reference
to :the Bill sent down from the other House of Parlia-
ment for the protection of life in Ireland—( Hear, hear)—
and he (Sir James Graham) expressed his strong con-
viction, that notwithstanding the pressing urgency for pass-
the corn-laws, they should, in courtesy to the other House,
pass the first reading ;but that should'it, not go beyond that
stage, no interruption would be offered to the passing of the
corn-law. All his colleagues had come to the conclusion, that
that was the course to be adopted, and they also came to the
conclusion that no compact should be come to with any other
party in the House.
Mr. DISRAELI thought that this was no explanation of the
l‘oifetmhe-
bmeirs ufonrd ecrrs
at avnadni nv,ga cs
llhk hnaodw
nb eteonbceotmh
ee taoc.t v The
managehe Ho n .r
business of the House, and he had before that time bad no less
than three conversations and a lengthened correspondence
with the Noble Lord. They were, therefore, entitled to con-
sider him authorised by Government in making any arrange-
ment with him. This, before any Committee of the House,
would be held a clear case of agency—immediately brought
home.—(Laughter.) As far as he himself was concerned, he
did not care when the third reading of the Corn Bill would
take place, but still he thought it necessary that they should
know when that third reading was anticipated.
The conversation then dropped.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter past One o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.
From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.)
THURSDAY, MARCH 26.

The following Petitions for Railways were reported, and the Bills
ordered to be brought in by the undernamed Hon. Membe :
Norfolk (Norwich Branch)—Marquis of Douro and Mr. B. rs
Smith.
Birkenh Lancashire, and Cheshire Junction—Sir P. Egerton, Mr.
J. Tolleinache, and Mr. Legh.
Hull and Lincoln Direct—Sir W. James, Sir J. Harmer, and Mr.
W. Collett.
Bridgewater and Titllilloll Canal Railway and Harbour—Mr. Dickin-
son and Mr. Escott.

SECOND READINGS OF RAILWAY BILLS.
MONDAY, MARCH 30.
Aberdeen, Baiiff, and Elgin.
Shrowsbury and Herefordshire.
London and Windsor.