The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-19 00:00:00

half of the land through which the line passed. The
present line was not the one originally laid out, which
went nearer the town of Leicester. They decided on
making the present line late in November, so late
that they had hardly time to make the change, and
were unable to inform all the landed proprietors along the
line that they intended doing so. The line crossed six prin-
cipal turnpike roads.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, May 18.
Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
CORN IMPORTATION BILL.
Messengers from the Commons brought up the Corn Impor•
tation Bill.

CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL.
The Bishop of LONDON presented several petitions against
this Bill.
Earl Fitzwilliam, Lord Lonsdale, and Lord Kenyon pre-
sented several petitions to the same effect.
The Duke of CLEVELAND presented several petitions
against the Charitable Trusts Bill, including a petition from the
TR rouyAsylum,satlsßs donationst
ce
0 i
03 that St.
the
was
se
whollysame supported
t e
dTbhye
tionerschari-
table
ande iinto
ob
operation,eq ues ts, a
tails!) s that as
subscriptions
shouldbse
rip ti 0 thens
would Charitable
cease
to be bequeathed.
Lord CAMOYS presented a series of petitions against the
Charitable Trusts Bill, from the Catholics of the following
places :—Derby, Warwick, Stourfield, in Worcestershire,
Leicester, Suffolk, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Birmingham,
and Somerset. The Noble Lord was fully five minutes in
handing in the petitions, and sometimes so many as three or
four from each place.
The Earl of WARWICK presented several petitions to
the same effect.
The Earl of STRADBROKE presented a petition against.
any alteration in the corn-laws. The petitioners stated that
the present law was most beneficial, and desired that they
would not sanction any alteration.—( Hear, hear.)
THE CORN IMPORTATION BILL.
The Duke of WELLINGTON moved the first reading of
this Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND—My Lords, it is not my in-
tention to go into the whole question of the dangers which
aro likely to be produced from the proposed repeal of the core-
laws, yet still I cannot permit this Bill even to be read a first
time in this House without entering my protest against it,
and without making some few observations to your Lordships.
My Lords, I conceive that Sir R. Peel was not authorised
in proposing to the present House of Commons these great and
extensive changes. I think that he was not justified in aban-
doning those principles of agricultural and British industry
which he for so many years ably and eloquently advocated, and
for the maintenance of which a large majority of the
representatives of the people in the year 1841, at a general
election, were sent to the House of Commons. My Lords, I
believe that it is quite impossible that this measure can be laid
upon the table of this House without violated promises and
broken pledgers. My Lords, I for one am sorry to see in
the present day, the great distinction which some even make
between public and private honour. There is one whose pri-
vate life bears, and bears truly the highest character, and
whose word at Tamworth, I am sure, would be as good as his
bond, but he does not hesitate as Prime Minister of this
country to tell the House of Commons to withdraw from an
agreement which was unwillingly acquiesced in in the year
1t342 by the agricultural interest. He has not only done that,
but he has abandoned and thrown overboard all his
former principles. He repudiates his previous speeches, and he
denies the truth and soundness of the arguments which
through a loeg life he has supported. Sir Robert Peel;my
Lords, yielded to the clamour of his opponents. He joins
with his enemies—he abandons his party—he leaves his friends
—those friends who had placed too great reliance in his state-
ments as Prime Minister. Putting aside all those civil dangers,
which, I think, those rash changes will bring about—putting
them all on one side for the present, I ask your
Lordships whether, if such conduct is pursued
by statesmen and the leaders of parties, they can hope to
retain that confidence which ought to exist in public men.
Such conduct is destructive of that confidence which is abso-
lutely necessary for the weal of this country in trying times—
and, my Lords, we know not how soon those trying times may
come.—(Cheers.) And if there be no confidence
on the part of the public in those public men, how, I
should like to ask, can you secure a good Government, and
prevent anarchy and confusion from being rife throughout
all quarters of the land. My Lords, I dislike much to speak
harshly of any man, and I will not impute unworthy motives to
any one; but, at the same time, I deeply regret the events
which have occurred since November. My Lords, I think
that Sir Robert Peel in November had but one
honest, straightforward course to pursue. Instead of
throwing up the office which he held under his
Sovereign (Cheers) the straightforward, honourable
course he should have pursued was to have recommended his
Sovereign to have dissolved the Parliament—( Hear, hear)—
and to have then gone and appealed to the people. Are the
people to have no voice in these great changes 1 He ought to
have gone to the people on the hustings—on every hustings in
every city, in every borough, and in every county of
tine empire, and to have asked them whether they, too,
had changed their sentiments, from becoming panic-struck
by the idea of disease in the potatoes, and some supposed large
collection of money by the Anti-Corn-law league. He should
have gone to the country, and he should have asked them to
have released him from his engagements, and to have relieved
his servile followers from other engagements and from the
promises which they gave to them on the accesion of Sir
Robert Peel to power.—( Hear.) My Lords, 1 think that
we have a strong Parliamentary claim, if we like to make use
of it, to ask your Lordships to delay the consideration of this
Bill.—( Hear, hear.) Your Lordships cannot but remember
that the Prime Minister, in explaining his new measures at
the commencement of the session, stated that this measure
would be the part of a great and comprehensive plan. My
Lords, if that be correct, we should be justified in asking that
the whole of the measures which are included in that
comprehensive plan should be on the table of the House before
we should be called upon to give an opinion en any one of
them.—(Hear, hear.) But, my Noble Friends, the Protec-
tionist party in this House are willing to waive that objection,
and we are not prepared to say that we will ask for more. We
are prepared to consider the motion which it is understood the
Government intend to make this evening, that the consideration
of the second reading of this Bill should be taken on this
day se'nn!ght. My Lords, on behalf of my Noble Friends, on
behalf of the industrious classes of this great country, we are
willing to concede that ; we are willing on their part to
waive that objection which we might have taken ; we
only ask, confiding in the greatness of our cause, a fair field
and no favour, and then, my Lords, we believe that with
this fair field, and without favour, we shall be enabled to
induce your Lordships to de that which is one of the paramount
duties of the Horse, to prevent rash legislation taking place
in consequence of the clamour of interested individuals.
Lord BROUGHAM—My Lords, I wish only to express my
entire concurrence in the course taken by my Noble Friend,
though I entirely dissent from every other word which he has
uttered to your Lordships. Nothing can be more fair and
candid, and open and manly—in one word, more every way
fitting and consistent with the character and conduct of my
Noble Friend than the course which he takes with regard to
the first reading of a Bill thus brought from the other House
of Parliament, in wanting to discuss it fairly and fully this day
se'rmight. But, my Lords, I enter in one sentence, my solemn
protest against my Noble Friend saying that a statesman has
committed an act of dishonour, has committed an act impeach-
ing the integrity of his character, and lowering his fair
fame amongst statesmen, who, yielding io reflection,
reason, and conviction, conscientiously altersopinions formerly
entertained, and acts upon that altered view; and that
such a statesman in these circumstances placed, is called upon
to vindicate his honour, his integrity, and his motives. But,
says my Noble Friend, why did not he dissolve Parliament and
appeal to the people. My Lords, lam guilty if my Right Hon.
Friend at the head of the Government deserves reproach.
in not dissolving on the great question, for I was a friend of
the Reform Bill in 1831, and never dreamt of dissolving and
appealing to the people, till we were defeated by a party which
tl.en was assembled in this House. But, my Lords, some of
my colleagues, some of my most esteemed colleagues—if I
mistake not, my Noble Friends on the cross benches—who
charge, Sir Robert Peel with not dissolving, had upon re-
flection, honestly and conscientiously, resisted to my great de-
light, and to the great glory of those who advocated the
Reform Bill,. and refused to join in any dissolution until the Par-
liament then assembled was found unfitted, as we could have
wished, for the purposes which we intended to have laid before
them.--( Hear, hear. )
After a few words from the Duke of RICHMOND, who
denied that he had ever voted against the Reform Bill,
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he conceived
that it would be in better taste of their Lordships not to
indulge in any personal invective on this question, as to whe-
ther the Prime Minister of the country had charged his poli-
tical opinion. He had sat long enough in that House to see
those individuals who were now bringing forward a question of
a personal nature repeatedly change their c.pinions. His Noble
Friend himself had repeatedly, changed his position in that
House, and after that he should not judge the Prime Minister
for having deliberately come to a judgment on this question
after a very long consideration. He would only say these few
words with reference to a statement made by the Noble Duke
with regard to suppressing all personal invective, which had
appeared in another case so disgraceful, and which he hoped
would not be found in that House.
The Duke of RICHMOND wished that the Noble Lord
who had spoken would practice what he preached. He gave
his opinion against personal invective, and then made a violent
attack against him (the Duke of Richmond). He (the Duke
of Richmond) had said that he did not wish to express any in-
vective against Sir R. Peel. He was very anxious. to express
of his
theo) secondi dnoistcutossbiorningofintthoeapnryespeanrtt
nature, but he felt so strongly en the subject, that he thought
nionbreecaadtlinseghoef was
the Billan anxious
it right to speak at once. What he had at present stated was
not to offer any objection to the Bill ; be was merely anxious
that nothing should take place on the consideration of the
second reading of the Bill of a personal nature, and he had,
therefore, judged it right for all parties that he should state
what he should feel.

Mr. Samuel Smith Harris, of Leicester, examined—Was a
surveyor, and employed by the Company to survey the
Leicester line, and furnished the estimates to Mr. Liddell.
The line was well adapted for the purposes proposed
by the promoters, though not as well as that originally pro-
posed. There were no road trustees opposed to them, and,
with the exception of one of the petitioners (Mr. Smith),
there was no ground whatever for complaint of residential in-
jury. The Corporation of Leicester passed a resolution in
favour of this line.
Cross-examined—There were three lines laid out. There
was one more direct than the present, but it would cost
15,0001. or 20,0001. more.
Mr. Hudson examined—Was chairman of the Midland
dCmioreepteadn
the
eAr
present,
l. ilar and
con-
formity,
Sir.Lilieddhelaldtoanalteinr tethrveielinve wtoit
as he thought, with the expressed wishes of Mr.
Harris. Considered it 4 matter of great importance that the
working of the line from Ashiy-de-la-Zouch to Leicester
should be in the hands of the Midland Company.
Cross-examined—His impression was distinctly that Mr.
Harris had pointed out this line as the one he preferred,and his
general order to surveyors to inform land proprietors, &c., of
the change that might take place in the line.
Mr. Woodhouse, engineer, was examined, and deposed to
the generally favourable features of the line in an engineering
point of view.
Mr. TiorE said he was unwilling to weary the Committee
by going into evidence on the traffic, as the greater part of
the line was unopposed.
The Committee considered it was unnecessary to do so.
The case for the Bill here closed.
Mr. WanntxGToN said, he thought it would be more ad-
visable if he acted in accordance with the plan adopted on
several occasions in Committees and reserve his observations
until the conclusion of the evidence pro and con. He m ould,
therefore, proceed with his evidence.
Mr. J. Harris examined—Was brother of Mr. Harris, the
petitioner. He heard of this line on the 15th of November
fast for the first time. Believed that this line would ruin the
estate of his brother. He stated this to Mr. Liddell,
who, however, refused to make any alteration. Was
quite sure that his brother had never stated to
Mr. Liddell what it was the impression of that gentleman he
had done. On the contrary, he heard him distinctly state to
Mr. Liddell that he regarded the carrying on of this line as a
tyrannical proceeding, and one that he was determined to
resist.

Earl GREY presented E everal petitions against the Charita•
ble Trusts Bill.

FREE CHURCH.
The Earl of ZETLAND presented several petitions from
the inhabitants of Scutland, complaining of the difficulty
which members of the Free Church experienced in obtaining
sites for their churches.
Lord BEAUMONT—I beg to present a petition against the
measure which was read a first time this night, from North
Lincolnshire.

CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that in rising to
move the second reading of the Charitable Trusts Bill, he felt
that he had not a very agreeable task to perform. He had
had an opportunity of explaining in detail the nature of the
measure, the principles on which it was founded, and the evils
which it was intended to remedy, and he confessed it was no
pleasing task to him to go over again the same ground,
and he feared that it would be a astill less pleasing task
to their Lordships. This was his only ground of discourage-
ment. In consequence of the extensive combination through-
out the country against this Bill, he felt a strung impression
against it had been made upon the minds of many of their
Lordships. He recollected upon one occasion, in the House of
Commons, Mr. Fox quoted the saying of a learned
Nunquam magic libenter loquor,
Quam quiem quod loquor,
A uditoribus displacet."
He (the Lord Chancellor) need not take so pugnatious a com-
pliment to the individual to whom he refers ed, and he should feel
greatly discouraged if, upon this occasion, he had stated any-
thing which would not have the effect of gaining over their
Lordships in its favour. He would not trouble their Lordships
by going into detail with respect to the circumstance under
' which this Bill was framed. Their Lordships, no doubt,
all recollected the Commission which was issued at the in-
stance of his Noble and Learned Friend. That Commission
sat for a long period of time, and made various able
reports with respect to the charities of this country,
and they concluded their reports by recommending some legis-
lative measure, for the purpose of more effectually controlling
the administration of charitable trusts. Before that report, or
rather before the last report had been finally issued, a Committee
of the House of Commons was appointed, which was composed
of some of the most able, active, and intelligent Members of
that House, for the purpose of considering that report which
had been given, and for the purpose of coming to some con-
clusion, and giving sense advice upon the subject. That Com-
mittee finally reported, after much inquiry and much considera-
tion, that it was necessary to appoint a permanent Commission
for the purpose of superintending the administration of the
charitable trusts of the empire, and they recommended also that
that Commission should be clothed with authorities and powers
similar or analagous to those contained in the present Bill.
His Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for the Home
Department, acceded to the desire so generally expressed, and
requested him to prepare a Bill for the regulation of these
charities. He undertook the task, and introduced a Bill for
this purpose the session before last. At the request of a
Noble Friend of his and of other Noble Lords he consented to
allow the Bill to stand over till the next session. Ample op-
portunity was by this means affofded for the consideration of
the question in all its details. It was read accordingly a
second time last session, with the understanding that it should
be referred to a Committee for their consideration. That
Committee was composed of several Right Rev, Prelates and
other Noble and Learned Lords, well qualified to examine it in
all its bearings. The measure was canvassed day after day for
a length of time, and alter a long deliberation that Committee
made its report. The Bill was then read a third time and
passed, though some 'opposition was murmured against it by
his Noble Friend. It then went down to the other House, but
in consequence of the pressure of business there it was found
impossible to give it due consideration. After such sanction,
after such a concurrence of opinion, he was at a loss to under-
stand the cause of the present opposition. What, he would
ask, were the grievances which were complained of and what
were the remedies propo:ed ? He would, now with
the permission of their Lordships, direct their attention to the
state of the question. Every one knew that the only tribunal
before which such complaints could be brought was the Court
of Chancery ; no other tribunal exited that took cognizance
of those irregularities against which the present measure was
directed. The system of the Court of Chancery was absolutely
adapted for these purposes. It had been presided over by a
series of men eminent for wisdom and learning—( Hear, hear)
—and were it not for one circumstance, he never should have
introduced a Bill of the present description. Unfortunately
there were few charities over which the Court of Chancery had
control. No man of sane intellect would recommend for a
moment that a small charity should make any application to
the Court of Chancery for interference. Sir Samuel Romilly
endeavoured to remedy the evil, and he brought in a Bill to
alter the law—but the alteration produced but a very slight
mitigation of 'the evil. Their Lordships might consider that
the evil was not very extensive, but he would inform them
that there were 15,000 charitable trusts not exceeding 51. a
year. There were 18,000 charitable trusts not exceeding 101.,
and there were 24,000 not exceeding 201.—(Hear, hear.)
When he mentioned that to their Lordships, they would at once
see the necessity of adopting some remedy for the evil. When
he stated this case in general terms, it was not possible to make
so strong an impression on their Lordships as he should do in
adverting to two or three instances—instances taken from the
reports of the Commissioners. He would take the case which
had been before mentioned, the case of Ashley, in the county
of Lincolnshire. That was a rent charge of SO/. per annum,
a charity of no inconsiderable value, and which was
something beyond the generality of these charities.
The trustees died without assigning the trusts.
The charity was founded as far back as the 16th century ; the
rent charge was paid up to a certain time, and the property
was sold, and the person who purchased it paid the rent charge
for one or two years, until he applied to his solicitor, by whom
he was warned that he could no longer pay it with safety, as no
person could give him a proper discharge. The consequence
was, that no rent was paid, and the arrears ran or, for some
time, until at length somebody recommended that an informa-
tion should be filed. The cause was brought on in Chancery,
and a decision was given for the payment of the arrears, which
amounted to 3751. The decree was made, and the costs
amounted to 400/. The costs amounted to more than the
funds they sought to recover. Was this a state of things that
their Lordships would allow to continue, without applying a
remedy? He would state another instance in which the ques-
tion was as to the administration of a charity, and in which all
the parties were desirous of having the object promoted. This
was the case of Battle, in Sussex, in which an old house, or
mansion, which was left and now falling into ruin, and which
the trustees undertook to sell, and to invest the produce in pur.
chasing in the stocks. The application was made to the Court
of Chancery, and the Master decided in favour of the sale. The
produce was 1,3501., and the costs amounted to upwards of
330. That undefended suit, to which there was no opposition,
cost exactly one• third of the amount of the whole charity, which
third was spent in proceedings to secure the purchase money
of the property, and to which proceedings there was no op-
position. The instance which he should further describe was
one attended with a similar result. It was a case of a lease
granted to certain trustees, at a place called Lanford, in Essex.
The property was let to the trustees, at a rental of 601., and it
was suggested by some person that the property was under-
rated, and an information was filed in the Court of Chancery
to investigate the transaction. The proceedings went on for
a considerable time until both parties became tired of it, and
agreed to stay further proceedings, and each party to pay their
own costs. The costs of those proceedings amounted to 6501.
Was it necessary that he should proceed further to state in-
stances, for he thought that those given had already satisfied
their Lordships that the administration of justice, however well
it might be adapted in its machinery to these trusts, was not
calculated to do justice in the case of smaller charities, much
less in charities of a still smaller character—to the amount,
perhaps of Si., 101. er 20/. per annum, making a total annual
value of 24,000/. He could multiply instances of that kind
which could be quoted almost out of number, by
referring to the volumes of the report of the Commissioners.
It was not necessary for him to rely on general reasoning, be
would refer to the report'of the Commission. When he told
them that the Commission recommended informations to the
extent of 385 as the result of their inquiry even in the case
of larger charities, their Lordships could understand the extent
of the abuses which exists din the smaller charities. He would,
call their Lordships to authorities on this subject. The autho-
rities to which he referred were those of Lord Kenyon and
Lord Eldon, with respect to the weight of which no difference
could be entertained. Lord Kenyon raid, that whoever
twheere
ehreerdiuticeeed.
of Ltohred
kEieldgodno,m
ex-
amined the state of the grammar schools in the kingdom,
would see the lamentable condition to which most of them
Would their Lordships allow this state of things to continue?
Now, inwerliekegmreasstryer, said, that
how were these trusts managed? A charimtyismmaignhatgebde.
established by an individual to be managed by trustees, but
no power was given for renewing the trustees. When the
trustees died, therefore, there was only one mode of renewing
them, and that was by an application to the Court of Chancery.
This proceeding, however, was attended with so much ex-
pense that it was rarely followed up, and as these real property
trusts existed upon rent-charges, the party holding the property
thus escaped from meeting the liabilities which had been im-
posed upon him. Again, with respect to personal property;
in many instances when the trustees died, there being no re-
sponsible parties to whom to transfer the fund property, the
funds themselves became forfeited. The Commissioners had
complained over and over again of this evil, while at the same
time they pointed out the costly machinery of the Court of
Chancery, an application to which tribunal invariably absorbed
the whole of the funds. Now, what was the remedy he now
proposed? What was the principle of the Bill? He was sa-
tisfied that no other course could be pursued, so far as re-
lated to the principle of the Bill, than that which he was
adopting. They must establish an independent tribunal,
r tuasbt
eceetr
trusts.
s
applicable to the administration of those trusts, and with
power to act and deal summarily with them. There was: on
othern
imaurmlt
vmhitea
hdt independenthouo It
already
tribunalo
resorting
esmo
reetesi
gnbagi
to
ost
ihnttheehgde
cllsous evil,
courts
rater
al
sxafcooreifrpi
:sebogayfun
request
es establishing
doing
procedure,
tirisnoh
acting
dgs
uu justicenae
t whereoeh and deciding upon the matters which came before
due. In respect of small debts, the legis-
lature
individuals should be be appointed andthe he now asked their Lordshipsii he to apply the same system
that of the judges of the land, de
dp
wre ohs pot oh s
ese
should
o,ldCharitable
have
av etherefore, s thatsum-
should s-t
wthoseStenthuirse of office should be the same as
annt Commission
mary jurisdiction invested •
should be at the • in them, and whose appointments
disposal of the Lord Chancellor. He
proposed that periodical returns ofthe •
merits should be mad
ments to the Commissioner,
for he was satisfied
that if such return was made from
• year to year, it was the best
security they could have
against fraud or deception. In the
last session the Bill was thrown out in the other House, be-
cause it did not make certain
as he now felt quite exceptions to this provision ; and
certain that, without some of these excep-
tions were made, he had prepared a schedule for that
which would be submitted to their Lordshi pur s in Comm He was still, however, of opinion that the
se p ipose,
ttee.
exceptions would
reduce the efficacy of the measure • but as he was most anxious
for it to pan, he was reluctantly compgled to admit them into

After hearing some further evidence to the same point, the
Committee adjourned.

GROUP LIT.

sumprinx.D, MANCHESTER, AND MID

7.. AND JITAT C 'X' X 0 lir .

The consideration of this line was resumed this morning
in room No. 11 ; Mr. Shaw, Recorder of Dublin, in the chair.
Mr. Hawkesworth, knife manufacturer of Sheffield, was
called to prove that the coke made at Dronfield, a piece
seven or eight miles from Sheffield on this line, was that
chiefly used in the fine hardware manufactures of Sheffield.
Some coke is obtained from the Soap House pit, but it is far
inferior to the Dronfield coke.
Mr. Dyson, of the gas works, gave similar evidence as to
the coke used for the supply of gas.
Mr. Benjamin Fox, a steel refiner, stated he used forty
tons of coke a week, the chief part of which came from
Dronfield. He far preferred this to the Sheffield coal.
Mr. Schofield, table-knife manufacturer, of Sheffield, stated
that ho had been occupied for several weeks in personally
ascertaining the consumption of coal in Sheffield and the
neighbourhood; that the number of steam-engines engaged
in the manufactures of the town was 165, with an aggregate
of 2,876 horse power, and that the quantity of coal altogether
consumed in the town and neighbourhood for manufacturing
and domestic purposes was upwards of 783,500 tons. The
carriage of coal from Dronfield is now ss. a ton, but by the
railway it would he only Is. a ton. On cress-examination,
the witness stated, that though coal might be obtained from
the Handsworth colliery by the opposing line, the supply
from that district would not be obtained nearly so well as
from Dronfield, on the proposed line.
Mr. Cooper, a large coalpit owner at Dronfield, stated that
the bed of coal there extended under 7,000 acres of land,
and the quantity of the deposit might amount to 45,000,000
or 50,000,000 tons, the beds being from 416 to 912 feet thick.
He sent 80 tons of hard coke and 40 tons of soft to Sheffield
weekly. The prices of hard coal delivered in Sheffield was
7s. to 9s. a ton, and of soft coal 13s. 4d. to 14s. Beneath the
coal there are most valuable beds of ironstone.

Other coal•owners gave similar evidence, and the Com•
mittee adjourned at four o'clock till to-morrow.

RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS.
MANCHESTER, MAY 16.
STOCK EXCIIANGE.—The sales are—Ambergate, Nottingham, Dos-
:on, &c., dis.—Chester and Manchester Direct, 1% dis.—Goole
Doncaster, Sheffield, Re., 34 p.—Lancashire North Yorkshire, Cs. 3d.
dis.—Liverpool and Bury, 9% p.—Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston,
1 5-16 p.—Manchester and Birmingham, Quarters (B), 8 15-16
Manchester and Leeds, Fifths, 9% p.—Ditto, Extension, 334 p. c.—
Manchester, Midland, and Grimsby, 15s. 9d. dis.—North Eastern,
dis.—North Staffordshire, 4% p.—North Union (B), 140—Preston
and Wyre Extension, 3-16 dis.—Sheffield and Lincolnshire Junction,
ae p.—Sheffield and Manchester, Quarters, No. 3, 1 p.—South Mid-
land, 1% p.—South-Eastern and Dover, Halves, No. 4, % c. p.—
West Lancashire Coast, Bs. 9d. p.—West Riding Union, 31% p.
LEEDS, May 16.
STOCK EXCIIANGE.—Contrary to general expectation, the effect of
Sir Robert Peel's Railway Dissolution Bill has not been hitherto
operative to the extent intended. Indeed, it appears that only a few
of the most hopeless schemes have been abandoned, and the meetings
now holding seem almost without exception to command majorities
against abandonment. With every prospect of a continued glut on
the market, all scrips continue low, and we fear must still recede.
The business in shares of existing lines has been moderate In ex-
tent, with prices not well maintained to the close of the week.
West Riding Unions, having been allowed to proceed with their Bill,
were in demand for a day or two, at an advance of 15s. per share,
but they end to-day in Leeds at about the same rate as they main-
tained previous to the favourable decision upon them. The sales are
—Eastern Counties, York Extension, 23 p. —East Lancashire, No.
2,3% p. cash—lltaldersfleld and Manchester, IA p.—lluddersfield
and Sheffield, 634 p.—Leeds and Dewsbury, 21. E p.—Manchester and
Leeds:Extensions, 31. is. p.—Newcastle and Darlington Extensions,
p.—North British, half Shares, 334 p.—York and North Midland,
East and West Riding, 10% p.—Ambergate, Nottingham, and Iles•
ton, dis.—Boston, Newark, and Sheffield, % dis.—Bradford, Wake-
field, and Midland, 20s. dis.—Buckinghamshire, 34 p.—Lancashire
and North Yorkshire, 6s. dis.— Leeds, Wakefield, and Midland, 3s,
dis.—Leicester and Bedford, 6s. dis.—London and Manchester
(Rem.), 1% di!.—Northumberland and Lancashire Junction, 18s. dis.
—North Staffordshire, 4% p.—North Western, lie. 6d. p.—Shrews-
bury and Hereford, 20s. dis.—South Midland, 30s. 6d. p.—Welsh
Midlands, 225. dis.—West Riding Union, 514.
NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, MAY 16.
STOCK EXCITANGE.—The sales are—Eastern Counties, York Exten-
sion, 2Gs. 3,1. p.—East Lincolnshire, lq p.—Goole and Doncaster, 1..4
p.—Lancashire and North Yorkshire, Gs. dis.—North Staffordshire,
434 p.

SHEFFIELD, MAT 16.
STOCK EXcHANGE.—The sales are—Great Grimsby and Sheffield,
Extension, 7a. dis.—Ditto, Quarter Shares, 4s. 6d. dis.—Derby and
Gainsborough, 14a. dis.—Leeds, Wakefield, and Midland, as. dis.—
Nottingham and Mansfield, par—Sheffield and Lincolnshire, 10s. die.
—Ditto, Extension, 9s. p.—Sheffield, Buxton, Leek, Potteries and
Crewe, 13s. Gd. dis.

HULL, MAT 16.
STOCK Excrtartoz.—The sales arc—lpswich and Bury, 1%-17,.Torth
British, Carlisle, 495. 6d.—Bandon and Bantry, 55.—Buckingham-
shire, 21. 1 Is.—Chelmsford and Bury, I Is. 6d.—Derby and Gains-
borough, 14s.—East Lincolnshire, 225. 6d.—Goole, Doncaster, Shef-
field, &c., 21. 10s. 6d.—Hull and Barnsley Junction, 255. 6d.—Lei-
cester and Bedford, 19s. &I.—Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston,
31. M.—London and York, 2%—.North Staffordshire, Li/. 14s. 6d.—
South Midland, 31. 115. 6d.

YORK, MAT 16.
STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Buckinghamshire (late Rugby),
2/. I Is.—Grand Union (Nottingham to Lynn), 14s. 6d.—London and
York, 21. Bs. 64.—Malton and Driffleld Junction, 21. 3s. 6d.—Man-
cheater, Buxton, Matlock, and Midland, 31. 13s.—Newcastle and
Berwick, 23% —Newcastle and Darlington Extensions, 10% —North
British, 29%—Ditto, Half Shares, 11;4 —Ditto, Carlisle Extension,
2/. 11 s. —North Western, 11. 13e.—West Riding Union, 5% —York
and North Midland, New (East and West Riding), 11%

3LLT 15.
STOCK EXCHANGE.- The sales are-Aberdeen, 61.- -Aberdeen , Banff,
and Elgin, 1/. N.-Airdrie and Bathgate, 2/. 165.-Arbroath and
Forfar, 271.-Ditto, Half Shares, 151. 10s.-Armagh and I'ortrush,
12s. 6d.-Ayr and Galloway, 11. 175.-Ayrshire and Bridge of Weir,
21. 25.-Banffshire, 18s. 6d.-Belfast and County Down, 11. 155.-
British and Irish Union, 21. Is. 6d.-Caledonian, 131. 55.-Ditto, New,
1/. 125.-Caledonian Extension, 11. 16s. 6d.-Caledonian and Dum-
barton, 1/. 135.-Caledonian and Northern Direct, 11. 145. 6d.-Carn-
wath and West Linton, it. 2s. 6d.-Chelmsford and Bury, 153.-
Clydesdale Junction, 141.-Cornwall and Devon Central, 11. 105.-
-Deeside Railway, 41.-Direct Northern, 11. 195.-Dublin and Ennis-
killen, 11. 105.-Dundee and Arbroath, 321.-Ditto, New, 211. 55.-
Dundee and Forfar Junction, 1/. 168.-Dundea and Perth, 171. 153.-
Ditto, Kinross Extension, 21.-Eastcm Counties Extension, 21.-East
Indian Railway, 155.-East of Fife, 11. Ils.-East Lothian Central
and Tyne Valley Junction, it. Bs.-Edinburgh and Bathgate, 11.
185.-Edinburgh and Glasgow, 771.-Ditto, Half Shares, 201.-Ditto,
Quarters, 18/. 17s. Gd.-Ditto, ditto, New, BT.-Edinburgh and Leith
Atmospheric, 11.-Edinburgh, Leith, and Granton, 16/.-Ditto, Pre-
ference, 131. 108.-Edinburgh and Northern, 61. 12s. 6d. ex hit.-
Ditto, Newport, 165.-Ditto, Lochgelly, 1/. 3s. 6d.-Edinburgh and
Peebles, 11. 75.-Edinburgh and Perth, 21. 45.-Edinburgh, Porto-
bello, and Musselburgh, 11. 125.-Forth and Clyde Junction, I/. 12s.
60.-Glasgow and Ayrshire, 761.-Ditto, New Stock, 301.-Ditto,
Quarter Shares, 181.-Glasgow Belfast Union, 21. lg.-Glasgow, Duni-
fric, and Carlisle, 21. 1;. 6d.-Glasgow and Dundee Junction, 11.,
13s. 6d.-Glasgew and Garnkirk, 401. 10s.-Glasgow General Ter-
minus, 9/. 10s.-Glasgow and Greenock, 171.-Ditto, New Stock
81. IN.-Ditto, Preference, 11. 155.-Glasgow Harbour Grand Junc-
tion, 11. 10s.-Glasgow Harbour Mineral, 11. 155.-Glasgow, Kil-
marnock, and Ardrossan, 21. Os. 6d.-Glasgow, Strathaven, and
Lesmahagow, 2/. 3s. 60.-Granton Junction, 10s.-Great County
Down, 11. 10s.-Great North of Scotland, It. 1.55.-Inverness and
Elgin, 1/. Os. 6d.-Lanark and Lothians, 21. 2s. 6d.-Larne, Belfast,
and Ballymena, 125.-London and Hounslow, 155.-Loudon and
Manchester (East.), 3/. 5s -London and Manchester (Remington's),
11.-London and York, 2/. 155.-Ditto, Half Shares, 21.-Mid-
land and Eastern Counties, 11. 18s.-Morayshire, 11.-Newcastle
and Berwick, 261.-Newry and Londonderry, 11. 75.-North British,
bury, Oawestry, and Ch:shie.t;l3G:':767
30/. 105. ex int.-Ditto, Halves, 121.-Ditto, Extension to Carlisle,
21. I is. 6d.-Ditto, Extension to Dalkeith, GI. 12s. 6d.-North Wales
Mineral, 151.-Ditto, New, 61. N.-Perth aad Cried Direct, 11. 13s.
-Perth and Inverness, 1/. 135.-Scottish Central, 161. 10s.-Ditto,
New, 71. 55.-Scottish Central and Caledonian Junction, 1/. 1N -
Scottish Grand Junction, 11. Is.-Scottish Midland, 71. 10s.-Scot-
Bah Southern, U. 13a. 6d.-Shrewsbury
and Hereford,
nd Midland, 2101.3:s
tSrhaTtehwe
rtis
tu 31. IN._ Stir -
Junction, 103.-Tear and Dove
IJunngcriodn,Dlull."elr'alOs.-inSeu.
155.-Wishaw and Coltness, 511.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that he had made
no personal attack on the Noble Duke. What he had said
was, that the Noble Duke should not make any present attack
on the Right Hon. Baronet, for the question they were to
consider was not his change of opinion.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.")
The Earl of RIPON said that he was very glad to hear
from his Noble Friend an expression of hiw intention to con-
duct the discussion, which they would have in the course
of
next week, upon this important subject, on principles which, if
adhered to, would command the approbation of the House ;
the absence of all personality. He was glad to be as-
sured that his Noble Friend had exhaled all his feelings on
the present occasion, and he was particularly glad to hear that
they were not likely again to have the same course of ob-
t htandoe
m partlye
representationset
them—he
oen n
_hlsown
e was
htl hie
ee :walpl Lordships,rekpnae rwe d
servation. He felt glad, partly on account of the feelings of
whichs
pacr
ec
,po,ano
run
elt
dd. account.—( Lmma
euaegdt he
thembut
)
not only on his own part, but on the part of his colleagues
with whom he shared the awful responsibility of having intro.!
duced this measure, and though my Noble Friend talked of a dis-
tinction which latterly prevails between public and private honour,
it is s distinction which he disregarded, and which he did not
recognise. Nor did he think he would maintain his position as
a man of honour if he deserted the principle of public or pri-
vate honour. He therefore begged to state to his Noble
Friend—.

GLASGOW, IiAT 16.
STOCK Exenamoz.—The sales are—Airdrie and Bathgate, 535. Gcl.
—British and Irish Union, 413.—Caledonian Extension, 335. 6d.—
Caledonian and Dumbartonshire Extension, 32s.—Direct Northern,
40s.— Dundee and Perth, 17% —East Indian Railway, 155. 9d.—Edin-
burgh and Glasgow, 76/.—Forth and Clyde Junction, 345. 6d.—
Glasgow General Terminus, TX—Glasgow and Belfast Union, 41s.—
Glasgow, Kilmarnock, and Ayr, New, 331.—Glasgow, Dumfries, and
Carli le, 395.—Glasgow, Kilmarnock, and Ardrossan, 36s.—Glas-
gow, Airdrie, and Monkland Junction, 36s.—Glasgow and Dundee
Junction, 345. 6d.—Kilmarnock and Ayr Direct, 368.—Lanark and
Lothians, 42s.—Lesmahagow, 485.—Manchester and Southampton,
40s.—Perth and Inverness, 32s.—Scottish Southern, 37s.—Scottish
Central and Caledonian Junction, 30s. 6d.—South Midland, 733, 6,1,
—South and Midland Junction, 225. 6d.

SUSPECTED MURDER OF SIX PERSONS BY PoISON,
3.7osin WALSUAH, FRIDAY NlGHT.—Nothing can exceed the sensa-
tion that prevails in this portion of the county of Norfolk, cmsequent
on the recent discovery of a system of wholesale poisoning, by which
six persona are already known to have perished, and the bodies of
others are now being exhumed for the purpose of examination. Mr.
John Ball, a respectable man, living at the village of Happisburgh, a
few miles distant, his wife, and four grandchildren, having died
within a very short period, and in a very sudden manner, suspicions
were naturally excited. A communication was forwarded to
Mr. Pringle, one of the coroners for the county, who issued his
warrant for holding an inquest, and directed that two of the
bodies should be exhumed. This was done, and on their being
subjected to a post mortem examination by three experienced
medical gentlemen of the neighbourhood, they declared that each
body contained as much arsenic as would poison the inhabitants of
the whole parish. The coroner, on learning tha result of the me-
dical gentlemen's operations, issued instructions to the parochial
officers for the disinterment of the other bodies of Ball's family.
This has been carried into effect, a teat being erected in the parish
churchyard to cover the bodies These are understood to have been
examined by the surgeons, arid the cause of death ascertained to
have been arsenic. Several witnesses have been examined by the
coroner. The parties suspected are known to have purchased arsenic
at different places about the time of the deaths of the deceased.
During the last 12 weeks several relatives of Ball have died in a
mysterious manner, and the exhumation of their bodies is deter-
mined upon, and the inquest is adjourned in order to give the medical
gentlemen time to examine them.—Sunday Paper.
A doctor in Penrith announces, as the latest remedy
for tooth-acke, that the mouth mast be filled with cream—then you
are to bump your head against the wall till It turns to butter.—
Livorpood Peeper.
THE MURDER OP Ma. CLARKE.—In the case of the
persons convicted at the late assizes of Nenagh, for the murder of
Mr. Clarke, Mr.. Dwyer, Q.C., applied this day to the Lord Chancellor
hearingpparties),
r tiesbto
counsel
for an order, directing Mr. Justice Ball (the judge who tried the
thhile opfrisexonceerps,tiasonsw. e
IlTahse
for Lordthe
Crown,Chftuc Chancellor,
stated
dftheer
wouLd give ja
, 4111E4 011 the lilt day of neat tomer iircari, 1
Rif .

" There is no terror, Cassius, in your threats;
For I am arm'd so strong in honesty,
That they pass by
Which
WELLINGTON r egardnot."
imme.o
me like the idleyw'ind,
The
ee BDiullkweasotfhenreadafirstt.
WELLINGTON
moved
oe
vde that it t b
ite printed.a
The DukeW
ed several petitions
Agreed to.
secTled time
Bishopon
0 Mondays,r .
DnAe rut grpereeds
presented
a petition from Trinity Col-
'agaTihnes t
Et haerl CofhaßriltpabolesTprruesst:nßteidli.
Col-
lege, Cambridge, to the same effect.
Lord COT TENHAM presented a petition from the trustees
of a Wesleyan chapel to the same effect.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition, very numerously
and respectably signed, from a society of Odd Fellows—
(Laughter)—Ancient Foresters, Old Friends, and others, near
Stratford, to the same effect. They petitioned against the
Bill which had for its object the prevention of the mismanage-
ment of their own trusts—(Laughter)—and it was very natu-
ral they should do so.
Petitions were presented against the Charitable Trusts Bill
by Lord Stanley, from Manchester; the Earl of Fortescue and
Lord Wharncliffe, from Sheffield ; the Earl of Eldon and the
Marquis of Normanby.
Lord CAMPBELL in presenting a similar petition,
said that hitherto 258 petitions had been presented
against the Bill, and only three in its favour ;
one was from the town of Scarborough and the other from the
Corporation of Hull, who summed up their opinions by stating
that the Bill was twavasoaable, arbitrary, unjust, uneonztita-

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, MAY 19, 1846.

tional, and despotic.—(Cheers and laughter.) Whilst he was
on his legs, he might state that he had a notice on the books
for to night, with respect to crime in Ireland. He was in the
hands of the House, with respect to that notice, but as they
had had previous discussion on the subject, and as their Lord-
ships had met for another purpose, and as he wished to make
a few observations on-parts of the Bill (the Charitable Trusts
Bill) which appeared to him of extreme importance, he
thought he should best consult the wishes of the House by
postponing that motion until to-morrow.
PORTS OF IRELAND.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose, whilst a Noble
Lord was about to present a petition to the House, not having
observed the Noble Lord, to put a question to the First Lord
of the Admiralty, amidst loud cries of " Order, order." The
Noble and Learned Lord n theW,_csl z ckexelaimed in a loud t )ne
twice or thrice, " The Noble Marquis is out of order," but
owing to the unfortunate infirmity of the Nohle Marquis with
respect to hearing, he continued to address the House, seem-
ingly unconscious of the cries of order with which he was as-
sailed. He at length gave way, and the Noble Lord pre-
sented the petition. The Noble Marquis then proceeded to
put the question. He Is ished to know the state of the har-
bours of Down Patrick and Donaghadee. But will respect
to the interruption of the Noble and Learned Lord on the
Woolsack, he wished to state that he did not consider that
he was out of order in asking this question, a•nd that, there-
fore, the Noble Lord had no right to interrupt him.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that it was quite com-
petent for the Noble Marquis to have given notice of a mo-
tion when the petitions were being re,•cived ; he considered
the Noble Marquis was quite out of order, otherwise he
would not have ;elt it his duty to have called him from the
Woolsack.

- - ---- -•• AIM..
the Bill. Most of these exceptions were framed on the part of descriptions of charities ; one of tho-e was all charities
old corporations, who alleged that they had been guilty of no under the amount of 100 q. a year, and the other affected all
abuses, that their integrity could be safely relied upon, and it charities under the charge of the municipal corporation. In
was therefore unwise and injudicious to interrupt the current the cases of the latter an inspeeter would be appointed to
of good which they were doing. In justification, however, of examine all the accounts, and all other matters connected with
what he stated—namely, that there ought to be no exceptions, ' the property subject to the charity. The Commissioners
even in respect to these charities—he would draw their Lord- i would have the power to investigate all accounts, and to make
ships' attention to the ease of one charity, who claimed the inquiry into the mode of keeping those accounts; and that
exception on the ground that they had always ad. Commissioner might tell parties that they had not kept those
ministered fairly and justly the charities entrusted to accounts in a proper manner, and that his orders should be
them, and that their integrity could be safely relied obesed upon pain of fine and imprisonment, and if the Conl-
on. The Commissioners gave matey instances of the descrip- missioner thought proper he could order a clerk to be kept,
tion he was about to give to their Lordships, but it would only who should be paid by the owner of the property, and then
be necessary for him to trouble their Lordships with one case. the Commissioner might see an item in the account which
He would take the case of the Mercers' Company, who had the he might think proper to strike out and disallow. There
control of a small charity, and whose officers in every June was also another clause, by which all parties, having proper-
paid a visit to Greenwich for the purpose of auditing and ties subject to a charity, would be compelled to produce all
settling the accounts connected with the charity. He held in their title- deeds, and get copies of them made, and all this at
his hand a statement of the expenses which this proceeding and their own expense ; and the owner of the property would be
journeying involved. In the first there was a breakfast which obliged to attend the Commissioner at whatever place he
cost 41. 125., then there were six carriages which cost 10/. for I shou'ld think proper to sit. Another clause required that all
the day, flowers to decorate the room 1/. Is., then there came I monies should be paid into the Accountant-General, so
a luncheon which he did not quarrel with, which consisted of that, as there were about 40,000 charities, the Accountant-
-16 dozen of sandwiches, 12 lemonades, half-a-pint General would have to open 40,000 accounts.—(Laughter,)
cherry brandy, two-and-a-half dozen soda water, and i There Was another point to which lie would refer—it was that
ceteras. This was the first part of the day's proceedings ; provision of the Bill respecting incomes arising from charities
but he now came to a more substantial item in the document. estimated at 1001. a year. There were many chapels in the
Their Lordships must bear in mind, that the document itself country left as charities, which would be valued at 1001. or
related to the Mercers' Company, who claimed to be exempted 2001. a year, yet did not yield any income whatsoever. The
from this Bill, on the ground of the strictly faithful manner provisions of the Bill would, therefore, press severely upon
in which they discharged their duties. Well, then, the next property so situated.—( Hear, hear,) It was a startling pro-
item was for dinner, which eon-iced of four dishes of leundere, position of this Bill that the Commissioners should have the ap-
two diles of turbots, two dishes of stewed eels, three dishes of pointment of the whole of the masters of the various charities
scolloped eels, three dishes of fried eels, three dishes of lam- referred to. There was no protection in the measure that these
prey, two dishes of salmon, one dish o!' sturgeon, and several appointments would be impartially made. He was persuaded
other dishes. This was the first part of the dinner. The that its operations would be most partial and unjust, and an
next course consisted of something more substantial. There invasion of the rights of property. Moreover, he considered it
were two dishes of pullets, two dishes of roast lamb, two i would be injurious to the charities which it proposed to bens-
calves heads, four hams, a sturgeon, a tongue, a ham, roast I fit. For these reasens he objected to the measure being passed
fowls, capons, and one baron of beef.—( Risers of laughter.) into a law. But these were not the only objections that could
After this there was a dessert, in which the principal item was be urged against the Bill. Perhaps the greatest of all the ob-
forty-one bottles of wine, at Is. per bottle ; the reason why jections that could be stated was the great injury which
this small charge was made was, that this company, being a it would inflict on Dissenting bodies. The Bill cut
very provident one, furnished their own wine on the occasion, them off from all protection for their charities. The Bill, and
Mr. Lovegrove, however, insisted that if they did not have the power of the Commissioners, applied to all schools and
the wine of him, they should pay him Is. on every bottle chapels erected by charitable gifts, so that those who occu-
consumed. After this dinner and dessert there came a very pied them, and for whose use and benefit they were endowed,
substantial tea, and the fall for the whole amounted to would be subjecte, to the direction and control of this
891. 10s., yet these very gentlemen came to their Lord- extraneous power.—( Hear, hear.) A great number of peti-
ships protesting that they ought to he exempted from tieing had been presented to the House in reference to those
the operation of this Bill, because they so admirably and objections, and yet no answer had been made to them. He
economically managed the charity entrusted to their care. did not, however, wonder at that, as these objections could not
This was not the only case. The total expense of that day be answered. He had admAted that much required to be
amounted to 1001.; in twenty years it would amount to 2,001., done to place the charities of the country on a satisfactory
exclusive of interest, which in that time would be at least foundation, but that while he considered such a step necessary
1,000". Why, that sum itself would be sufficient to endow a he did not believe that the present Bill would accomplish the
considerable charity. This was not all, with regard to this end contemplated.—( Hear.) There were many other ways in
Company. Information had been filed in the Court of Chan- which the present system might be improved, by appointing
eery for abuses of the charity funds. The funds of the charity trustees through boards of guardians, by magistrates in quarter
were mixed up with the corporation funds, and then small sums sessions, or by other local bodies who had a competent knowledge
were doled out to the charity, and the rest mixed up with the of what was best to be done in particular districts, and the
corporation. Informations had been laid against them, and persons who were best qualified to administer those charities.
large sums recovered. And this was not confined to the The present measure was so Lied in principle, and so repugnant
Mercers' Company. Nineteen trading companies, eleven of to the rights of individuals, that he hoped their Lordships
whom were petitioners against the Bill, had had sixty-nine in- would put an end to it, by rejecting the second reading of the
formations directed to be filed against them, at the recom. Bill. He was quite confident it would never become the law
mendation of the Commissioners. He did not mean to make of the land.—(Hear, hear. )
any charge against this Company. They might have been Lord BROUGHAM said he rose under great difficulty,
negligent in the performance of their duties, or they might have after the multifarious objections which the Noble and Learned
mistaken the charter, and supposed they had a right to do so. Lord who had just sat down had introduced. The improve-
He did not mean it as a charge against the Company. He ment of the charities of the country was a vineyard in which
brought it forward as a defence of himself and the Committee, he had long laboured, and therefore he would for a short time
They were aware in what manner these charities were applied. occupy the attention of the House. He ( Lord Brougham)
If their Lordships thought a Committee should be allowed, must however object to the confident way in which the
he had added a large schedule to the Bill, in which Noble and Learned Lord had condemned the Bill, a con-
he had included all the great colleges, all schools, fidenee that he had never heard equalled in any court
of royal foundation, and other extensive establishments. All of equity, or in the criminal courts of the country.
the great hospitals in the metropolis, all hospitals, eieher in the The Noble and Learned Lord had spoken more positively of
whole or part, which were supported by voluntary contribution. what was to occur hereafter than historians had of what had
He had excepted from the operation of the Act houses of the already taken place. The fact was, this Bill did not pass last
Wesleyan Methodist society, and a great number of other re- session, because it did not reach the other House till the session
ligionists. Powers had been given to various Commissioners, had nearly approached its dose. But how, asked his Noble
the details of which he would not enter upon at present. If their and Learned Friend, was it that the Bill did not reach the other
Lordships thought they were too extensive, they might be House till so late? Why, it was because the Bill was not
abridged; and if not sufficiently comprehensive, their Lordships finally settled by the Committee appointed to consider the sub-
might add to them. If their Lordships would allow the Bill to ject, until the session had so far advanced.—( Hear, hear.)
go into Committee, they might make their amendments and There could hardly be a doubt, in his opinion, of the necessity
modify it as they thought proper. Another very important which at present existed for the passing of this Bill. But his
feature in this Bill, though not an essential one, was the ap- Noble and Learned Friend complained of it, because
pointment of a tribunal to whom these matters should be re- it increased the patronage of the Lord Chancellor. Look,
ferred. In consequence of the death and removal of the various said his Noble and Learned Friend, how this patronage was
trustees, it became necessary to supply from time to time the yearly being increased. Two years age they passed a Bill
deficiency occasioned by those casualties. Application had giving the Lord Chancellor power to appoint two lunacy Corn-
been made to him to appoint trustees, anti he had made orders missioners, but what had this Bill to do with lunacy ?—(Hear,
referring them to the master to supply those deficiencies, but and laughter.) But though it had nothing to do with lunacy.
the expense of these proceedings were enormous. In one he could assure hie Noble and Learned Friend, for he had
charity alone it amounted to 700/., and in another case—the personally inquired into it, that the appointment of those offices
case of a charity in Warwick, where the appointment had been productive of the greatest good, and had resulted in
was contested, the expenses amounted to upwards of the saving of a good deal of expense in lunacy proceed-
-5001. Indeed 2001., 3001., and 400/. was not at all inns. —(Cries of " Hear, hear.") His Noble and Learned
an uncommon amount to be expended in the appointment of Friend, after making this divergence to lunacy matters one
new trustees. This he proposed to remedy by constituting a would have thought he would have returned to the Bill before
tribunal, the proceedings before which would be comparatively their Lordships ' • but he did no such thing. He went into the
cheap. But then a Noble Lord had stated that these trustees Masters of the Court of Chancery's office, and complained of
might be improperly appointed, and might also improperly dis- the appointment of certain taxing masters. But here again lie
charge the duties reposed in them. This he thought would be could bear testimony to the immense good these appointments
met by the condition under which they held office. They had produced. But what had masters in Chancery, or taxing
would hold-their office dependent upon their good behaviour masters, to do with this Bill ?he must again be permitted to
and efficient discharge of their duties. The Noble Lord on ask his Noble and Darned Friend.—( Hear, hear.) What
his right said, " I know what will happen. You will appoint had all this to do with a Bill for correcting
such a number of trustees that you will swamp the old ones." abuses which could not be remedied or prevented by
He thought that would be met by a simple provision, that in any existing tribunals ? But he could tell his
no instance should the number of trustees to be appointed Noble and Learned Friend, that of all the duties of the
exceed the number originally appointed. There was another master's office, that almost gave the least satisfaction, was the
point which had been brought forward by his Noble and taxing of costs; and, however, his Noble and Learned Friend
Learned Friend. He said, o You have appointed trustees to might complain of the appointment of taxing masters, the
a considerable number of charities, but there are a number suitors, the parties interested in such a matter, did not object
who have never applied to you, because they had no funds to to it. On the contrary, they felt, and still believed, that they
pay the expenses of such application." He thought this a had been greatly benefited by it.—( Hear, hear.) After
great argument in favour of the Bill. He proposed to apply a diverting still longer from the immediate subject before their
remedy to this case. The tribunal would be a cheap one, Lordships, his Noble and Learned Friend Caine at last to the
before which they could apply to have those deficiencies Bill, and commenced his irregular observations upon it, by
supplied. He had now stated the different portions of the asking if there ever was such a thing known as
case sufficiently clear. He now called upon their Lordships giving power to commissioners to fill up defunct
to allow the Bill to be read a second time. They must allow it trusteeships. Why not let it remain as it was
to be read a second time, in order that they might be aposis. pursued the Noble and Learned Lord, and confine the power
tent with themselves. They allowed it to be read a second time to the Lord Chancellor ?" Why, what an idle way of meeting
last session. They afterwards examined and improved the the Bill this was. How were trusteeships filled up now ? Why,
Bill, and their Lordships would not at the present time refuse by the Master in Chancery, to whom all such questions were
to allow the Bill to go into Committee, in consequence of the referred by the Lord Chancellor, and virtually the duty was
clamour which had been raised out of doors, in consequence of performed by the Lord Chancellor himself. Well, would it
incorrect statements which had gone forth upon the subject. not be the same under this Bill ? Would not the Commis-
It was quite impossible to resist the application. He called sioners be appointed by the Lord Chancellor himself ? Oh,
upon them in regard to the justice of the measure. He would but his Noble and Learned Friend and these Commissioners
not appeal to the feelings of compassion in favour of the indi- might be subjected to, and liable to be actuated by, political
viduals to whom that Bill applied. He appealed to their Lord- influences in the performances of their duty. Why, good God,
ships' sense of justice—that feeling which had ever been con- was not the Master in Chancery liable to be acted upon by
sidered sacred in their Lordship? House. Their Lordships the same influences ? Well, then, what nonsense
would, therefore, allow the Bill to be read a second time, in it was to argue against the Bill in this way.—( Hear, hear. )
order that its merits in detail might be considered in Com- The Noble and Learned Lord would find several cases in the
mittee. After the statements he had made to their Lordships, books which he decided himself, and with which he had edified
he should feel most ashamed if their Lordships did not allow himself this morning. The Noble Lord then referred to the
the Bill to be read a second time, in order to be considered in case of a charity established in the year 1475, to grant loans to
Committee. people. These loans had never been granted, and the funds had
Lord COTTENHAM said his Noble and Learned Friend been appropriated to the trustees. They committed sins of
the Lord Chancellor had told their Lordships that the Bill was omission, they omitted to pay these charities, but they corn_
brought before Parliament last session. He did not say why mitted themselves by appropriating the funds to therntelvs.—
it was not passed. He thought that their Lordships ought to (Laughter.) Since the fire of London, the Mercer's Company
be aware of the nature of the Bill before it was read a second had distributed their charities, although they faithfully and
time. He considered the Mercers' Company had nothing zealously went down to Greenwich every year to luncheon
whatever to do with the Bill. As his Noble and Learned and dinner.—(Laughter.) There was also the ease of a cor-
Friend had excluded them from its operation, that Company poration in Leicester, who got tired of performing their duties,
having consumed a great many more good things at Greenwich until in 1836 there was a balance in the hands of the
than he thought they should have done, insinuated that they society of 6,0001. The Master of the Rolls stated,
bad abused their trust, and, therefore, the Bill was not to be when giving judgment in this case, that a more gross case of
applied to them. He proposed also to except from its opera- breach of trust he never knew. This corporation came to
tion all charities supported wholly, or in part, by voluntary their Lordship? House, and prayed thew Lordships not to
contribution. By this proceeding the whole of the Bill would institute any of these disagreeable and indelicate inquiries.
become nugatory. There was no society which might not takeinquirycharity
In some cases the expense of an into abuses
of 1,0001.
advantage of the Bill if they felt so inclined. In the Commit-
amounted to 9,000 T. These werecharities
tee appointed last year by their Lordships, of which he was a or 1,200!. a year,- and could afford such expense, but theirmember,
thember, the first difficulty which arose was the appointment of Lordships must recollect that equally as great abuse of cha-
e Commissioners. It was proposed that it should be vested rity might exist in charities of smaller income, where the light
in the Crown. It was subsequently agreed that the of inquiry could never come in consequence of the expensive
appointment should be left to the Court of Chan. nature of the present Chancery light. It behoved their
cery. -He did not object to the Bill ; who could object, Lordships, therefore, to provide some cheaper light for
to such a Bill ? What he objected to was, the machinery for these smaller charities. With reference to the statement of
carrying out the provisions of the Bill.—(Cheers.) 1 hat the the Noble Lord that the exception of charities supported by vo-
Bill was disapproved of by himself, and the minority of their luntary contributions would render the Bill at once nugatory,
Lordships' House, was not of much consequence, but he thought he contended that it would not. He held in his hand a
the Bill being disapproved of by the colleagues of his Noble and return, which,showed.that there were 40,000 charities with an
Learned Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was sincerely
ajeffuaorpiresddn jurisdiction i
soil: was
laaybs
charitieson lfupttoebls ye_
income of
ill,e-0_9,0.00/ a year that would come under the pro-
wasvn iesei
.0e presentag
a r
my
ot
doh e
aovßfeiiidi
of some importance. The objection which he had to the Bill,
procedure thAe s
enormous
ma nmda
of deeper root, and he would now briefly proceed to state
what those objections were. He had in the first place an objet-rtoy
tion to the measure, quite independent of its inapplicability to sensing property to the amount of 240,000/. a year some redress,
charitable trusts. He could not help looking back to what had which their funds would not now allow them to obtain. He
taken place in the Court of Chancery since 1841, without feeling considered that gingerly and careful as his Noble Friend was in
that it was necessary to put an end to the system which, stepping and mincing through the subject, to avoid the dirt
since that period, had been gradually growing into use. which would fly up in his face, he had not made out a ease at
He alluded to the mode of drawing from that tribunal business all against the Bill. He considered that the Commissioners
which legitimately belonged to it. A Bill had been passed in who would be appointed under the powers of this Bill,
the year 1842, appointing two new judges to the Court of Chan- and who would be appointed by a responsible adviser of the
eery, to enable that Court to get through the mass of business Crown, and would be removable only by an address from both
which had accumulated in it. The increase in the business Houses of Parliament, and who would have a watchful public
was not, in his opinion, commensurate with the strength of the to guard over them, dare not, he maintained, act other than
corps. It might he thought, therefore, that with this accession in an honest and straightforward manner. He begged to apo-
'of strength the Court of Chancery would be fully adequate to logise for having taken up the attention of their Lordships so
the discharge of the business which came before it. Seven long, but he felt it necessary to do so, as lie could not under-
individuals, however, were subsequently appointed, at a salary stand what was the cause of so much opposition to the present
of 2,0004 each, to tax the costs in Chancery, which up to that measure. He himself was charitable to all—even to the
time was performed in the master's office. He adverted to Whigs--but he could not understand, unless they had some
these matters merely to show the alterations which had recently peculiar object in view, why they resisted the Bill so pertina-
occurred in respect to the Court of Chancery. Twelve eiously. The very reasons which they urged for refusing to
other Commissioners were also appointed, making the new support it were just those which induced him "to support it.
appointments to amount altogether to 56,0001. The business The abuses were the grossest that could exist, and it was ne-
therefore had been greatly reduced, while the strength of the cessary to pass a measure for their prevention, and for the
corps had been greatly increased. Now they were called upon better regulation of these institutions where they were per-
to remove another portion of the business, which legitimately mitted.
belonged to the Court of Chancery, and which it was properly Lord ELDON said that since the beginning of the debate,
qualified to discharge. His Right Hon. Friend certainly three Noble Lords, who had all occupied the Woolsack, and
showed that a great amount of money was expended in the were members of the law, had taken up the attention of their
proceedings of that Court, but he knew very well that these Lordships, hut he regretted that so little of the discussion had
sums were actually expended in litigation, and were not ex- turned upon the merits of the Bill. Nobody could deny that greatto
penses incidental to the Court. They were incurred in ex- abuses existed, but there was great difference of opinionnzsain
penses to counsel, witnesses, and other costs, which would also the mode of remedying them. The schedule mightonneeted with
be incurred by proceedings before any other court. To tell great temptations to some to wish to become
would hee ever consent
them, then, of the expenses of the Court of Chancery was to the Bill ; but it had none for him, n
tell them what had no reference whatever to the question. to give his sanction to it. ' The NohloerLord then read a petition
And what, he would ask, then, was the object in appointing
fromthat town were anxious to pre-
business number of men to do the work which was peculiarly the measure, fur the corporation of .
which he said had been sent Hull, to present against this
business of tbat Court ? It was a fallacy. His (Lord serve
pro-
Cottenham's) argument was, that as long as they admitted Posed, and from that absolute power which this Bill would con-
thetheir charities from any interference as this Bill
competency of the Court of Chancery, the excellency of fer on the Commissioners.
its jurisdiction, and the equity and justice of its decisions, their
Housesaid
on thisquestion, as he had been
Lord CAMPBELIo he was rather desirous to address a
duty should be to diminish the expenses and make the proceeds few words to the .
his
Neble
and Learned Friend,
taunted with inconsistency by
before it not more costly than they would be before the
Commissioners. In a Bill brought in by the Noble Duke
. Learned Lord had made an appeal from the
who was now sitting
Lon the end of the Woolsack.—( Laughter. )
opposite, where the question was raised as to the minimum The Noble and ar
of expense incurred iinproceedings before that Court, the fees
nt of what he once did not amount to more than 15'. What he said, therefore, was, Whigs to himself,
. but they had all deserted him, and he now
remained a solitaryhemo
was.—
let them do away with the fees; let them go into the Master's (Laughter.)
Henryord Brougham and Vail: had
office and let no fee be required. When he (Lord Cottenham) suade the House, that. t
ly . .
Butt NnobulmeeLord had endeavoured to per-
acceded to the office as Lord Chancellor, he remitted fees to always been a conststen
the House to come to a to that
suitors to a considerable amount, which appeared to give great though he had asked politician.—(Laughter,) itician.—( Laughter. )
resolution However,
satisfaction. On principle, therefore, he objected to the mea-
it was enough for him to try and defend his
effect, the House had not done so, and had taken no notice of
him. However,
sure. He denied its necessity, he objected to it on
the ground of expediency, and also because it was
'to expose and convict abuses in charities ; but
own consistency in reference to this Bill. Now, he was
an encouragement of the system to which he had always anxious u
"'think that what his Noble and Learned Friend had
alluded. His Noble Friend alluded to the amount he did
of property which would be affected by the Bill. It was dill-
suggested Learned would be likely to gain that object. His Noble and
Friend had said, that this measure, or a similar one,
cult to say what that property was. There were 38 large
folio volumes, covering 27,200 folio pages, giving an account was passed in this House last year, but it was taken no notice of
From i
of these charities.these it appeared that there were in the other House. However, the haveHousemightsince
40,000 different charities, and the amount of money, under changed their opinions upon this question, as they had
their control was 1,500,000/. But there was another point before upon others.—( Hear, hear.) But he did not wonder
which he would wish to advert to. There were a great tuheatadCmhitutreedhtmbeant
thingsand Dabisesuenldtenrsetshreomuladbi asbe posed to it
variety of trusts, in the nature of which there was a greatin
he objected to the tribunal proposed. He would theymucwere, buth
rather
deal of difference. He was aware of cases having occurred
which breaches of trust had taken place; but the great submit to the Court of Chancery as a tribunal than to the
variety of the nature of the trusts would facilitate oppor- Commissioners that were proposed to be appointed under the
tunities for such acts. In many cases also there had been 11. The principal objection to the Court of Chancery was
instances of a great difference arising between the intention of the great expense required to be gone into to recover small
the doner and the acts of the doner, who often thought himself sums. What, then, was the duly of the state under such cir-
entitled to the property pari passu with others. There were cumstances ? Why, to reform the Courts of Chancery. The
also a class of cases of changes in property with which Noble clear remedy was to allow justice to be cheaply administered to
Lords, who were well acquainted with the state of their pro- those that may require it. Now the new tribunal proposed was
per, ties were no doubt familiar, and which very often arose in not confined to a particular class of charities, but included all
cases of charity charges. Such properties, subject to these the charities in the Country • whereas, by a proper classification
charges, would also be subject to the despotic and indispen- of them under the Lord Chancellor,'
the- Commissioners would
sible control of those Commissioners, and he mentioned this now be able to attend to the whole of them as far as his interference
in order to show to what state the properties of many Noble was admissable or necessary. But under the present Bill, the
Lords would be reduced. Ho would now proceed to state the new Commissioner. was to take the whole power into his hands,
ratura of I full. of the cliu"11- Ill° BID ITPlivd to three klici have OA wiaolo jurisdictionof the b 0,006