The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-11 00:00:00

A.YRSIIIIIE AND GALLOWAY.

The evidence on behalf of this scheme was resumeil.
Mr. M`Knight was recalled, and explained that he made a mistake
In giving the quantity of land for the line yesterday. It should have
been 540 imperial acres. The cost of the whole, however, would
remain as he had given it then.
Captain Moorsom, civil engineer, was examined at considerable
length cn the various points of a report he had furnished to the
Admiralty relating to the construction of a harbour at Balcary Bay.
Hi, evidence, which in substance was the same as the report, was
to the e•:ect that the bay afforded a good position for a harbour, and
that the works necessary to make it efficient in this respect would
not be very great. It was a good point for a railway terminus, and
it would be the interest of the company to construct stud works as
he recommended.

Mr. M'Callum, the engineer, who was examined yesterday, was
re-called and cross-examined at great length, with the object of
showing that his estimates were much lower than the character
of the works and the management of the line warranted.
At this stage of the proceedings, Lord Selkirk, who is a witness
fbr the opposition, was called and examined, it being intimated that
he could not attend to-morrow. His evidence was to the effect that
be thought the manner the line intersected Colonel Maxwell's pro-
perty decidedly objectionable, and that from his knowledge of the
country, he did not think the scheme would be very profitable to the
shareholders.

The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at 12 o'clock.

GROUP XVII.
mArrciamsTEN, AND SOI
(Continued from our Afternoon P:dition.)
Mr. J. A. Gardener, Lord of the Manor of Cheltenham, examined
by Mr. JAMES—A meeting was held In that town in August last, at
which resolutions were passed in favour of the- Manchester and
Southampton Railway, and petitions were agreed to in
accordance with those .resolutions which were signed by
665 electors and upwards of 1,000 of other respctable
➢nhabitants, ConAdered that the feelings of the inhabitants had not
altered since that meeting, and that If the line were made, the traffic
cetween Southampton and the Isle of Wight would be greatly in-
crease.!. The present mode of communication was very defective.
By Mr. IlaoentEnrusT, a member of the Committee—Had 104)
shares, 50 of which he now held. A great number of shares were
allotted to Cheltenham, a great portion of which, he believed, were
Nw held by those to whom they were allotted, thus evincing their
gut eat in the line.
Mr. limas= said he should call one of the Directors of the Com-
pany as 500 n as he came into the room, who was engaged in, the
allotments, snd who would state the numbers allotted to each of the
towns which the line would intersect.

'TON.

•
)tr. BROCKLEIMUT said he did not ask the question with any view
to ,w that throe was Any unfairness in the allotment of the shares,
stvb;dy in order to ascertain, with as much accuracy as possible,
Sf aumv of the shares allotted were hold by the parties
Mr. GcasEr said the promoters would adduce evidence to show
the numbers allotted to each of the towns and the numbers now
held.

Mr. Cut arun.c, proprietor of tho Plough Inn, Cheltenham, said,
great nnwthers of persons went from Cheltenham to Southampton.
if the line were male, the
journey
to the Isle of Wight and back
made might be kute in a
day.
Mr. Dixon, one of the magistrates of Southampton, and formerly
yayor, spoke to the desirein,the tiara for direct communication
with the wurks, and the eli
giiili
And southamPten. ty:of the term'nus of the Manchester
Bs ital T. PISILLIPS—Had hot had opportunities of judging whether
the line tA/
o the north,unica ti r would be advantageous or not
iitat that;
with the manufacturing
enlinot B
wahtrt
was direct
dir
t filistricts of the north would be preietred.
ior
laaNygogu —roVr itildi
line,cers tooda
nthat h
that
thnev
ePoi curt
r,cfntrnhem.i 1
ssion, r 3 had
petitio,
i:v :ler:,
n
n f
1;ton had also dons SO, no opinion having been '' parishes of
outhall!
given by the
.._ .. .

sixth.
Mr. Itieveg, „curate of a parish near Marlborough, and who, with his I
c,ither, farmed a q:tantity of land, said the soil in that vicinty reqiiired
great deal more would ho used if the pro-
a quantity of salt, th:t a
posed railway were ma.
fir. The salt came from Droftwich.
Mr. Lee, a salt manutisaurer at Droitwich, sent a large quantity
(*salt to the south. In ISO, he seat 2,764 tone to the south, and
6,240 to Liverpool, also for thboate NOuth. The 2,764 t ons were sent to
Gloucester, and thence by Std .`iotithampton, Portsmouth, and
other
Mpartsr. Bin,. manager of the Clay-cross Collerieg, CheStetfleld, said,
that if the line were made lie anticipated that the coals ra!sed„ in
that colliery would be in great demand in the south. By tne on ins
e
the could supply coals to Cirencester at 14s. 2d. per toll ; eric
lade, i `5. 6d. ; Swindon, 155.; Marlborough, 15 10d Andover,
173. , Ron;.sey, lils. 6d.; aneeclaiS:mailhl Southampton, 9s. ;g. in fact,. ; the lino
would reduce the price of
per
rng
the
p we r
n line.m ile .
the cost of transit at three farthings
Mr. Hoskings, th! mayor of PortsmoutotiblHe calculated
considered that the line
would be of considerate advantage to that Portsmouth,
council was held in May !ast. at which a resolution
A meeting of the
r
una-
nimously in favour of the 1, s 11e, and 3 petition, to thevvhatscissed seal of
ffi
the corporation was axed, prClented to Parliament in ordl
With the views of the council. The town was generally In favour'n
ofciet'
The Committee then adjourned until twelve to-roorrow. • • 1

GROUP X VIII,.
31X1111212, (D EAT WESTERN).
The Committee met at the usual hour, Mr. IS. Denison, chairman.
The Earl of Ilchester was examined this morning on the subject
of the injury occasioned to the property of-Earl Digby and Sir W.
figlander, by the construction of the Exeter and Yeovil line.
Lord Portman gave similar evidence • he also considered that the
line between Salisbury and Basingstoke was not called for, and If
constructed would be injurious to the interests of the public. fie did
not think that more of the land of the country should be taken for
pc,iroaet purposes than was absolutely necessary.
r. Brunel. was then examined. The line had been laid
spAr swwith • view of affording the greatest local accommodation.
woula four tunnels upon the line, The quantity of road
try, . to be Constructed, and the expense of the same, would be—
, ,
4% Miles LeCgthn ns Estimate
hai
.y 2„. The main line •• • • •• ••• • • • 4! 45 •• •• •• ....,,,. £173.423
Sidei out :I; Branch •••••• • • • • • • 45• • • ....... •• •• 97,231
Itridrort slitto • • .... •••• • • • • 13 "•••••• • • . • • • 269,704
Chard ditto .•••• • . • • • • 3 17 ••••••• • • • • • • 25,536

-
Total.. • • 70 IS ..€1,2134,ip§
The curves and gradients were about equal to those of the VMPeting
the. The line proposed by the Great Western Company from
to London, via Readin;, wean accommodate 220,000 inhabitants ; the
1 Ire from Yeovil to London, via Salisbury, would accommodate
120,000 only.
Mr. Sergeant Kuvutaxx then examined Mr. Brune wl'h reference
to tile ix:Jury done to Mr. Frampton's property, at the conclusion of
which the committee adjourned till twelve to-morrow.

CROUP =M.
THETPOZD.

The Committee met at twelve o'clock, Mr. ditAIIvILLE VEr.lcov in
the chair , when the formal proofi the Thetford Branch were
put in. _ _ _

.
Mr. Isaacs, a land valuer, stated that the estimate for the
land from Bury to Ely WAS 5,5307., and to the railway station
18,8091. ; the total being 24,3411. ; the value of the building property
was not more than 2,0001.
The engineering evidence of the Thetford branch having been
given, and which was to thel effect, that passing through a fiat
country, the earthworks will be light, and the gradients nearly equi-
valent to a level.

air. Gunton opposed all the Bills on behalf of Mr. Lee, whose
property is likely to be affected by them all.
A long dispute then ensued, as to the course of proceeding, esite
3lei-
chilly as to the point whether the Ipswich and Bury and
Bury and Ely line having, to a certain extent become identical, whe-
therwee. that circumstance put Mr. Guerdon out of court as to the o
in the
tion to passing through Mr. Lee's property, that gentleman having
petitioned against the line which by consent was absorbed
retained
as
other, and not having petitioned against that which was
esubject before the Committee.
to the standing orders
The decision arrived at was, that, according
the case could not be entertained, but the chairman proferred to ask
en
eof short.
tthe
ening of the trunk line to
any question which the counsel might propose.
Mr. Borthwick, the engineer,
gradients of 1 in 100, or that line on which the trains for carrying
Norwich,w asanidhtnhe examined
objectionableness to thess
cattle are very heavy.
To Mr. CZAWEDED, the witness replied that the line had been laid
with a view to get as near to Bury as pos•
mubti
here it would be most convenient for
o er
and the
t low o
put
the inhabitants. The distance by this line, and by the new line
from Norwich to Stowmarket to London would be much the se—
about 113 miles.
,To the Citaiitmasr, the witness replied that a gradient of 1 in 132
could easily be worked, that the profession had hardly acquiesced
in Mr. Locke's statement of last year that a gradient of I in 90 could
be worked with facility, and he believed that it was an unir,rsal
opinion among engineers and surveyors that it was always advisable
to go to additional cost to get a good gradient.
Some discussion then ensued with regard to the plans, part of
which were not before the Committee. It was ultimately stated,
that
thoaghbebeayvooniddedthbet7rallenurve ofe
odfeviteanticehtinsth.e injury to Mr. Lee's
land might
Mr. GrZADON then addressed the Committee on behalf of his
client, dwelling chiefly on the comparative routes to London
tfroomStoNwmorwairlch‘t,throanud by
through the line just granted, from Norwich
the Ipswich and the Bury line.
He accused the Ipswich and Bury Company of a species of artfulness
in having contested with the other company without giving any op-
portunity to the country to oppose them. On this ground chiefly he
conceived that the Committee might treat this Thetford and New-
market branch as an ,independent line, either opposing the other
lines, and therefore consider it as unnecessary; or they might reject
it altogether, on its demerits alone.
Mr. O'MLLLET stated, that having answered the objections against
his appearance three times, he wished to know whether there was
any farther objection.
Mr. DANIEL objected as he had done before.
Mr. O'Maxxxv said that he appeared for tke Corporation and in-
habitants of Bury, as Mr. Sergeant Talfonrd and Mr. Alexander
did last year in the Portsmouth Committee. There were numerous
other instances, and he had therefore
.named Sir :John Waisham
and Mr. Bridgman.
Mr. DANIEL said that Sir John Walsham only appeared as trustee
of the school at Bury, and Mr. Bridgman was absolutely a petitioner
in favour of the line.

Mr. O'MALLEY had appeared before a Committee where Sir G. Grey
had been chairman, and there it was explicitly allowed that he had
not only a ground, but the best ground, for it was universally al-
lowed that an interference witk private rights was only justified on
some great public exigency, and on that ground alone, therefore, he
had a right to appear, without going at all into the case of the in•
habitants of Bury.
After considerable farther discussion, it was decided
that Mr. O'Malley should be heard, and he proceeded
accordingif to address the Committee. He stated that the control
between the opposing lines was, however, not fer public utility; but,
as Mr. Bouff, the engineeer, had allowed one for private interest.
But the authorities and inhabitants of Bury, appeared as entirely
disinterested parties. After touching on the several points of
the relative value of the price of coals, of the facility with
which they could be brought by Lynn to Ely, to which port there
access for vessels of eighty tons, and several others, the Learned
Gentleman concluded a long and effective address, and the Com-
mittee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP XXVIII.
LUTON AND ST. ALBANS.

The Committee assembled at the usual hour this morning.
Mr. Cubist was examined with reference to this line.

Mr. Sergeant Wrangham summed up, and Mr. Denson repted.
The room was then ordered to be cleared, and the Committee de-
clared the preamble of the Bill promoted by the London and York
Company between St. Alban's and Hertford to be proved.
The Bill promoted by the London and Birmingham Company for
the same district, was declared not to be proved.
The Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP XXXI.
BRISTOL AND BIRMINGHAM (GLOUCES.

TEEL AND STONEHOUSE TIINCTION).

The Committee re-assembled this morning at 12 o'clock.
The different parties were occupied during a considerable portion
of the day in an anging their various claims according to the in-
timation which the Committee threw out on a previous occasion,
that the a.reement of 1843, between the Bristol and Gloucester and
the Great Western Companico, was to be made the basis of :my fu-
ture arrangements that might be entered into between the two
companies. Terms and counter-terms were offered by the different
parties to the consideration of the Committee for :heir decision, when
the room was ordered to be cleared.

On our re-admission, the CHAIRMAN stated that the Committee
inclined to the opinion that it would not be for the public advantage
to have a narrow gauge line made between the rails of the bro:id
gauge, neither would it be convenient to substitute the narrow line
for the broad gauge. They believed, however, that by the formation
of a narrow line of railway, in addition to the broad gauge line, the
interests of the public would be best subserved. They were under the
mpression that it would be an advantage to have a narrow gauge
line, but they did not wish to deprive the Great Western Company
of the broad gauge line from Bristol to Stonehouse.

Mr. R. Stephenson, the engineer, was then called by the pro-
moters, and citpOsed as to the elegibility of the construction of the
proposed Hue. •

Other evidente We% gone into, and the Committee adjourned

GROUP XXXIII,

The Committee on this group met to •day at twelve o'clock, in room
No. 24 (Grand Corridor) ; present, Sir Robert Ferguson, chairman ;
the Marquis of Worcester, Viscount Norreys, Mr. Fellowes, and Mr.
Smollett. They proceeded with the consideration of the
RUGBY, LEAMINGTON, AND WARWICK.
Mr. WAKELET, Q.C., for the opponents of the Bill (petitioners from
Leamington), addressed the Committee. He said that the evidence
for the opposition was concluded yesterday, and that evidence ap-
peared to him to be of so conclusive a character, that it would not be
necessary to occupy much time in summing it together, or comment-
ing upon it. The Bill was one of a great number which the London and
Birmingham were endeavour.ng to pass through Parliament for the
purpose of obtaining possession of the whole country. It was quite
evident that the promoters of the Bill were nut very sanguine of
their prospects, after having heard the witnesses against them ; for
they now proposed that the preamble should be postponed until the
evidence upon all the London and Birmingham projects should have
been gone through. The Learned Gentleman then went at some
length into a review of his evidence, contending that there nas nut
only no necessity for the proposed line, but that its construction
would be detrimental or inconvenient to the districts through which
it would pass. It would compel the traffic to be taken by a cir-
cuitous and expensive route, and prevent the formation of a more
convenient and less costly accommodation. He hoped the Committee
would see that a sufficient case bad been made out to reject the
preamble of the Bill, instead of postponing it.
Mr. HILDYARD replied, and it having been stated to the Committee
that three of the opposing petitioners had withdrawn their opposition.
The CHAIRMAN said that the Committee had determined to post-
pone their decision on the preamble of this Bill until they had gone
through the cases of the others in connexion with the London and
Birmingham Company.
They then proceeded with the

LONDON AND lIIMMINGItAbI (
HAM EXTENSION).

The object of this Bill is to enable the company to erect a station
Ln New-street, Birmingham, and to make a new street to the back of
:he Grammar School.

The Bill is opposed by several inhabitants of Birmingham whose
relations are buried in a cemetery, with which the extended line
from the present station would interfere.

The late Mayor of Birmingham, and other gentlemen connected
with the municipality of the borough, gave testimony in favour of the
proposed site, as the most eligible that could be chosen for a central
station. The Town Council had passed recently a resolution in favour
of the plan.

In die cross-examination of the witnesses, it was elicited that
there was a great repugnance in Birmingham to the removal of
dead bodies, and that some years ago when such a removal was
effected there was a serious riot, for which several persons were
tried at Warwick, and were acquitted.
The Rev. Mr. Lee, master of the Grammar School, gave evidence
to the effect that the proposed extension would be a great improve-
ment to the central part of Birmingham. It would not certainly be
detrimental to the school ; but on the contrary, lay removing a
particular class of houses, the proximity of which was hurtful to the
school, it would be a great benefit.
In his cross-examination, the witness stated that he did not think
there was any objection to the mode in which the extended line
would pass through the graveyard.
In answer to the CrulabrAN, it was explained that there had been
a petition presented from the trustees of the Grammar School against
the Bill ; but the object of the petition was only to secure the inser-
tion of clauses for the protection of the school property. These
clauses had been agreed to, and the trustees had consequently given
their sanction to the Bill.

After further evidence of the same character,
The Committee adjourned at tour o'clock to twelve to-morrow.

GROUP XLVI.
This Committee re-assembled to-day at twelve o'clock.
NEWCASTLE AND CARLISLE EXTENSION

AND BRANCHES.

The engineering evidence was resumed.
The examination of witnesses was continued, and the evidence had
reference chiefly to the effect of the proposed railway on the manu-
facture of the district through which it passed, which, it was stated,
would be very beneficial.
The Committee then adjourned at four o'clock.

GROUP LIII.
SHREWSBURY AND BIRMINGHAM.

Mr. HOPE (in continuation from our Afternoon Edition) con-
trasted this undertaking with its rivals, the Shrewsbury, Wolver-
hampton, and South Staffordshire Junction, and the Birmingham,
Wolverhampton, and Dudley lines, and contended that this was an
integral line, under one control, whereas in the other cases they
would have to form alliances with already existing companies. The
Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton, with which the other schemes
would have to form junctions, would have double gauges, which
would cause considerable inconvenience in the transit of traffic.
This line would accommodate Darlington, containing a population'of
8,240, which town would not be approached by the rival schemes.
The stations of the rival schemes for Wolverhampton would also be a
furlong distant from the town, and thirty feet below its level.
They would also give no accommodation to the works lying
along the canal there, whilst this scheme would afford
them every facility for the transit of goods. This line
would also run into New-street, the principal street in Bir-
mingham. The corporation of Birmingham had held a meeting
on the subject of the different schemes, and they came to the decision
that the station contemplated by this company would be by far the
best for the interests of the town. They would effect little residen-
tiel injuries in Birmingham, whilst they proposed to remove some
very objectionable buildings. This line was very generally supported
by the public ; the Committee, in fact, would learn from the evidence
that it was the favourite line. The Board of Trade had also re.
ported in favour of it. The Learned Counsel having concluded his
"a(' compliance with the Duncombe resolutions was proved,
after which
the Board of Traclr:civ
Mr. R.,,rhs,:ir behalf of the promoters, called Mr. Ormsby
ed that the scheme was last year submitted to
Gore, 1%t..,
believe that any other scheme could
most favourably of it. He did not
egiciowttid be devised that would better ac-
commodate the district through which it was proposed to pass. This
line would afford communication Lti.
),
and a Idlire,rethrdshire Companies (of
There
t
compliance with the
bury and Chester and Shrewsbury aSnbd-webn;r3:-,;,eb,:tinwueneineathtieonSh,,,r.eoau'is,-1
both of which he was chairman
thus be afforded between North and South
A meeting of the promoters of the line lately, In had been
Igesional orders, and they had unanimously determined that the
Bill should be proceeded with.
The Hon. Member was cross-examined by Mr. Coastr, who an
peared on behalf of certain landowners who opposed the line. ak-id.
who appeared on behalf of the up •
Peeing
material was elicited.
proprietor in the neighbourhood of Shrews-
Up, Groves, landed
walsronpabnyielf,r.
butß onsoEtithTinsgoziv,e7
Hader which the people of that Ws-
f their not having such communica-
trlet laboured in consequence o
Property in that neighbour-
tion as this undertaking would afford.
bury, proved the disadvantage un
hood had greatly decreased in consequence
d to the adjoining counties
bury not having the accommodation afforde
by railways. of the people of Shrews-
Mr. Henry Newton, wharfinger, Shrewsbury,
was next examined
Of Alb WOOLRYCHE (one of the counsel for the promoters of the Bill),
A 44 xave aknilar evidence.
44r. }end merchant, of the same place, also gave
traffic i...`144644, 4"
stated that his business was very much
limited in colZ4uone* of pot haying an expeditious mode of con-
veyance. The prese;:! weans of wilmhnication with the counties
adjoining Shrewsbury was (3.111A15, and the trade el Shrewsbury was
liable to great interruption at times hi eoWsequence of there not being
a sufficient supply of water. It the people of that district had a
direct communication with London (which this line would afford)
ffiereased. Since the opening of
their trade would be considerably
the Derbyshire line they had lost their trade Of remearafacturing old
lead, which had been previously sent to them ; and if this line were
constructed he had no doubt that that trade Weald return to them.
The lion. Mr. Clive, M.P. for the southere divialan of Shropshire,
end deputy chairman of this company, Was neXt cannel, aed Bald than
tb,a subject of procuring such a line as this had long occupied hie
thotiehM. He considered that Shrewsbury stood in great Rawl of 4
railway eonannappation with Wolverhampton, Birmingham, and
Shropshire, and re'"' personally Pin many of the inhabitants of
Loaded. He believed that this line would be shorter than any other
yet devised. ite had
The Station iironosa
szpresged tAerakei.vef ipaeirecnisly in favour of
tetnmilunnideertakingation. This line
"rd
acti far
,(1.91 ra
Lid
I.hide thlJiltiitken,ts A 4,irp;.
to be made at Birmingham by thi. Company was a tilOilt Qnvenie4
one In every ri wet.. 1
Cross-examined by Mr. CoaisErr—l am aware that several land- '
holders through whose property this line is proposed to pass have I
petitioned against it.