The Sun.
London, England, 1846-01-27 00:00:00

THE SUN. LONDON, TUESDAY mortNING-,_ JANUARY 27, 1846.

tion of the corn-law. I could not be otherwise. I did
it, and I knew it. —(hear, hear.) So f,O, then, thy
Lords, I have accounted for my own conduct. The pro-
position of my Right Hon. Friend, although it will involve
the material alteration of the corn-law, will be satisfac-
tory to the country, and satisfactory to the friends of my
Right Hon. Friend, and will give such advantages to
the landed interest as the landed interest have a right to
expect in the general arrangements of the country. My
Lords, my Right Honourable Friend is a great landed
proprietor. Ilia pursuits are those of agriculture. He
is connected by friendship and by associations with
most of your Lordships. I cannot suppose that he
would betray the interests of a body such as that of
the landed interests. No, my Lords, I entreat your
Lordships to wait until you see what the proposition is
that he will lay before you. He will bring his measure
before Parliament in the course of the next few days,
and then you will see whether or not he has betrayed
his duty either to your Lordships or the country. At
all events, my Lords, whatever that measure may be, I—
so highly rewarded as I have been by the people of Eng-
land—could not refuse to give my Sovereign all the
assistance in my power towards the formation of a Go-
vernment. I could not refuse this when I was called
upon, in order to enable her Majesty to meet Parliament
and carry on the business of the country. On that
ground I have now presented myself before your Lord-
ships. I have no doubt that the measure to which I
have referred will give satisfaction to the agriculturists,
and will meet with general approbation.
After a pause of two or three minutes,
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE rose and said, he
wished to withdraw the motion of which he had last
session given notice, with respect to the London and
York Railway Bill.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM wished to know why
it was that the Noble Lord and his colleagues, who bad
undertaken the task of forming a Government, had not
been successful in the attempt. He confessed the state-
ment just made by his Noble Friend was not satisfactory
to his mind. The present Government was almost en-
tirely a free trade one, and he therefore wished to know
why the Government, when it declined the task, and
found Noble Lords ready to come forward to make a
Government—why, as they had altered their opinions
with respect to the question of free trade, they did not
join the new Government (if such it could be called)
that had always advocated free trade conscientiously
and consistently?—(Hean hear.) He begged to ask
the Noble Lord (Lansdowne) why they had been unable
to form an Administration.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped
the measures to be brought forward on the following
evening in the House of Commons, by the Right Hon.
baronet at the head of the Government, would be satis-
factory.—(Hear, hear.) For his own part he had not
the most distant idea they could be satisfactory to the
country or to the agricultural interests. Believing that
the measures about to be proposed would be destructive
to tee agricultural interests, it would be his duty to
protect them as far as he was able, and to defeat any
measures that might be brought forward by this or any
other Government to introduce a free trade Legislature.

The Duke of WELLINGTON wished to know what
the Noble Duke meant by a free-trade Government.—
(Laughter.) He certainly was staggered at it.
Toe Duke of BUCKINGHAM observed he was
staggered to find the Noble Duke now in the Cabinet,
proposing measures which he formerly so strongly ex-
pres-ed his disapproval of. The Noble Duke and his
friend upon a former occasion turned out the Govern-
ment, which attempted to support measures such as
those now about to be brought forward.—(Hear, hear.)

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE had been upon a former
day perfectly prepared to state, at some length perhaps,
the circumstances under which he in common with the
Noble Lord, the Member for London, (Lard John Russell,)
and others, had been called upon to form a Government,
upon which the Noble Duke (Buckingham) had called
- principles of free-trade." All the circumstances, how-
ever, had been so fully stated to their Lordships, and to
the public, that he really did not feel himself called
upon to relate all the occurrences that had passed,
lie did not feel himself called upon to enter at any length
into an explanation of the reasons which induced him to
become a convert to free trade, because they had been
fully stated in another place. After it had been stated
by so important a personage as the Right Honourable
Baronet at the head of the Government, that he would
not consent to any measure involving the principle of
a fixed duty, or any relaxation of the present corn-laws,
he felt he had no other alternative than to resort to free
trade principles ; guarding, at the same time, all the
legitimate claims of the landed interests, as well as the
other interests of the country. Had the proposition of
his Noble Friend, the Member for the City of London,
been adopted at the time when he proposed a fixed duty,
a stability would have beeu given to trade, and the agi-
tations which followed would have been prevented. He
had, nevertheless, never maintained the fixed duty on
principle, but he contended that while remissions were
made in other articles of commerce, it was absolutely
necessary; considering the circumstances of the country,
and, in particular, the failure of a material article of the
food of the people, it became impracticable to bring a
fixed duty before Parliament, and, therefore, it was
necessary to resort to a free-trade measure. To continue
an evanescent duty would only be perputating uncertainty
and its attendant evils. The measure he and his Noble
Friends would have brought in would have relieved the
distess of the country, consistently with an alleviation, as
far as consistent with justice, of the burdens bearing on
the landed proprietors and occupiers of land in this
country. He had been called upon by the Noble Duke,
and he felt himself called upon to state the grounds which
had led him to concur in the general views of those with
whom he had consulted. These views he had stated to
her Majesty when he had been honoured by command
to attend her. He had felt, however, that nothing good
could accrue from his Noble Friend, the Member for
London or his colleagues, if they had not the influence
of Parliament. He felt that if he undertook, or contem-
plated, this duty, it would be absurd, unless they pos-
sessed that confidence. It ought to have been their first
duty to ascertain whether Sir Robert Peel could com-
mand the House, because, if he could not, it would
have been an useless attempt to form an Administration.
He thought it was unnecessary for him now to enter
into details upon the subject. They have been sufficiently
stated elsewhere, and your Lordships cannot but be cog-
nisant of the statement which has already been made.
And I do hope, that for the future, no consideration,
on the part of their Lordships will prevent
an adjustment of this great question upon the
most satisfactory terms, in whatever hands
the Government may be placed—and I, for one,
have no doubt that facility will be afforded
for speedy settlement of this question.—(Hear, hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON—My Lords, I wish
to state a few words in explanation relating to the pro-
position which had been made to me as to whether I
was willing to undertake the conduct of the Govern-
ment. It is perfectly true what has been stated by the
Noble Marquis, that it had pleased her Majesty to ask
me if I was di-posed to undertake the formation of a
Government upon the principle of maintaining the exist-
ing corn-laws. My Lords, what others said I cannot
say. I answered immediately that I could not undertake
the conduct of a Government upon such principles.
But, my Lords, when I made that answer I did it not
only out of a feeling of diffidence in my own abilities,
but also from the feeling that it was utterly impossible,
according to my knowledge of the then state of affairs,
to form a Government in which my colleagues could
attain the full confidence of Parliament.
The Earl of RADNOR stated that there was one
point upon which he thought a little explanation was
due to the House. He alluded to the interval which had
elapsed since first her Majesty's Ministers had become
acquainted with the failure in the potato crop, they had
met, consulted, followed, separated, and left, and nothing
had been done for the people—for those millions of whom
the Noble Duke had spokea ; and they have left them
in the same situation up to the present time. He for
one should be very glad to see an alteration in the corn-
law 3, and the disease in the potatoes would be found to
hasten that alteration. He would say one word—he
could not see, although he had often heard of, the pe-
culiar burdens on land; but he hoped nothing would he
done without an inquiry into the subject.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—My Lords, what I
stated to your Lordships, I think your Lordships will
consider has been fair instructions in respect to it, and
if my memory serves me right, I think the Noble Lord
is mistaken.
The Duke of RICHMOND rose to present a petition
from Ware, against any alteration in the existing corn-
laws. lie humbly hoped that before their Lordships
would pass any new plan, that they would have an in-
qthueir farmer andm er
treble the taxation that Mr. Cobden paid.
wh
he wpoaui ldd a t hr
ee
nn t shownf3o
()hi! saNlonbalre,
wFriendsb
lteh
to
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE—The Noble
Duke has named Mr. Cobden, and their Lordships may
recollect, that he moved for a Committee to inquire into
the peculitir burden on land ; and that as his arguments
had converted almost every one out of that House,
he hoped they would be successful in con-
vincing their Lordships also.—(Hear, hear.) He
could never see the peculiar burdens on land, al-
though he had often heard of them, both in and out of
that House. He never considered a quit-rent a burden
on land.—(Hear, hear.) If that inquiry which was now
recommended could be made, he should have no objec-
tion to it, though it would cause delay. Ile could not
see why this Commission had not been favourably viewed
by the landed interest, when proposed some time ago.
1 he Duke of RICHMOND—There had been an at-
tack made upon the landlords of this country, and he
rose to answer it. The Noble Lord said that an in-
quiry had been proposed some time ago, but
that the landlords of the country had refused to
sanction it. He also informed their Lordships that there
were no burdens on land. If high rates and poor-laws
were burdens, then, indeed, were there burdens on that
land; and he (the Duke of Richmond) was of opinion
that, his own tenants paid more rates than all the Anti
Corn-iiew League put together.—(Laughter.) His Noble
Friend had said that the opinion of the country was
well known upon the question of the corn-laws. This
he'denied not, indeed, so far as their opinions were
formed, but in so far as that those opinions were not yet
taken. If the Noble Lord was of that opinion, he should
advise her Majesty's Government to at once appeal to
the country, and strengthen themselves by such a step.
Lord BEAUMONT—The Noble Marquis had said
that the landlords were inconsistent on the question of
an inquiry into the burdens on land. He must say this
—it was not inconsistent. At the time his Noble Friend
alluded to, an inquiry was certainly proposed, but then
that Commission of Inquiry did not propose to remove
the burdens on land. That being the case, many op-
posed it on the ground that such a proceeding would
but raise expectations which would not have been
realised, and the consequence would have been
a general disappointment, engendering discontent.
Change of opinion had occurred which threatened such
a dreadful revolution, that he not only wished an in-
quiry to be instituted into the burdens of land, but into
the operation of the poor-laws, and the commutation of
tithes. Ile did not, however, consider tithes a burden
on the land, as they were placed upon real property in

possession of the landowner, whether a clergyman or
not. It he v. isi.e_d an inquiry into the commutation of
tithes, it was for the purpose of treating those persons
who had in this case behave d with a sense of honour
highly to their credit—he meant the clergymen of the
Church of England, who had not advocated either
one side or the other of the great questions which at
present occupied the public attention, as they had re-
fused to attend either protection or free-trade meetings.
If the Noble Earl who sat behind him (the Marquis of
Clanricarde) wished to know what were the burdens on
land, he would refer him to two volumes now lying on
his table on the subject, and to that admirable volume
lately issued by the Commission of Local Taxation.
He would ask him to read that passage which stated
that 12,000,000/. were annually paid by the owners of
real property. Was not this sum a burden upon land ?
If they entered into this inquiry, they sheuld ascertain
the distribution of these burdens, and the manner in
which the proprietors of laud complained of the large
amount received from them. Whilst he was speaking
on this point, he might be excused for offering a few re-
marks with respect to the explanations which had
recently been made, as to the proceedings of the Govern-
ment. He must say, candidly, that the Noble Duke
had distinctly exp'ained the part which he had taken
in these proceedings, _ but he thought curiosity
might be well excited as to the motives and
reasons which had influenced the other members
of the Government in the course they had
adopted with respect to the opinions of the Prime Mi-
nister. He thought their Lordships had a right to
know—he did not, however, say they had a right to de-
mand the information—but he must confess that his cu-
riosity, and the curiosity+of others, had been excited to
know, what had induced the First Lord of the Admi-
ralty to support the views of the Government. The
same remark mqy apply with equal truth to the Noble-
man
at the head of the Board of Control. He wanted
especially to know the reasons which had influenced the
conduct of that Noble Earl (the Earl of Ripon), as he
remembered the speech which he bad addressed to their
Lordship 3 last session in favour of protection. Again,
he wished to know why the Noble Earl the Minister for
Foreign Affairs (the Earl of Aberdeen)—(" Hear, hear,"
from Lord Brougham)—had consented to uphold the:opi-
nions of the Government, to the great danger of our rela-
tions on the other side of the Atlantic •: If they now
removed protection, would there not be found in Ireland
certain parties who would clamour for repeal of another
kind ?—(Hear, hear.) He mightgo farther, and look to
Canada. What would become of the Canada Corn Bill?
Repeal protection, another independence and another
annexation might arise in the west.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, that though feeling
his situation in some degree different from that of his
colleagues, he still felt it necessary to explain somewhat
to the Noble Lord, in consequence of a question he had
put. It would be unnecessary for him to trouble their
Lordships with the reasons which had influenced him,
but he wished to state the fact to the Noble Lord, that
when his Right Hon. Friend communicated with him
and with her Majesty's Goverment, in the beginning of
November, he (the Earl of Aberdeen) gave to that pro-
posal his cordial and unhesitating assent. He repeated,
that he need not give his reasons, but such had been his
opinion then, and such was his opinion now.
The House then adjourned.

HOUSF. OF COMMONS, Monday, Jan. 26.
The SPEAKER took the CI dr at Four o'Clock.
ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS.

The SPEAKER—I have to inform this House that the
House waited upon her Majesty on Saturday last, when
she was pleased to return the following gracious
reply :
" I receive with satisfaction your loyal and dutiful
Address, and I rely with confidence on your support in
carrying out the measures about to be proposed to
promote the welfare of my people."
NEW WRIT FOR rHE BOROUGH OF RIPON.

Mr. YOUNG moved that a new writ be issued for
the borough of Ricon, in room of Mr. T. B. C. Smith,
who had accepted the office of Master of the Rolls for
Ireland.
CORN-LAWS AND THE LEAGUE.
Mr. OCTAVIUS DUNCOMBE presented several
petitions from the North Riding of Yorkshire in favour
of protection to agriculture, and they prayed that some
means might be taken to prevent the wholesale manu-
facture of votes by the Anti-Corn-law League.
An Hon. MEMBER presented a petition from 870 oc-
cupiers-of land, to the amount of 104,674 acres, in the
county of Leicester, praying the House to uphold the
corn-laws, or at least to appeal to the opinions of the
country before adopting any system of free trade.
Mr. HOWARD ELL'HINSTONE presented a pe-
tition, signed by upwards of 3,000 persons, from the
city of Westminster, against the corn-laws.
ASHBURTON AND DEVON RAILWAY.
An HON. MEMBER presented a petition, praying for
leave to bring in a Bill to construct a railway from Ash-
burton to Devon.

MANCHESTER AND SALFORD WATER-

WORKS.

Mr. BROTIIERTON presented a petition from the
Manchester and Salford Water-works Company, praying
for leave to bring in their Bill.
Mr. G. BANKES presented a petition from the
borough and town of Wareham, and from the Isle of
Penbeck, in the county of Dorset, praying for a continu-
ance of the present system of protection to agriculture.

to vote away a sum of money for the district where it
existed.

Sir ROBERT PEEL begged to assure the Hon. Mem-
ber that any information upon the subject he had men-
tioned which it was in his power to give, should be freely
granted. With regard to the grant in question, he
would also beg to assure the Hon. Member that her Ma-
jesty's Government were resolved to take care that it
should not be expended 'otherwise than in the pro •
motion of public works ; and when the time
came, every information as to the manner in
which this sum should be expended would be freely given.
—(Hear.) But with reference to the past, it would be
remembered that former Governments had the discre-
tionary power to make grants of this nature, while they
did not consider themselves liable to be called upon for
a disclosure of the manner in which it had been ex.
pended. For several years past it had been the habit of
Government to vote sums of money for public works,
and surely the present was the last year in which such a
proposition ought to be opposed.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME said he would not have made the ob
servations that had just fallen from him, but for the fact
that he had in his possession returns with regard to
the manner in which public grants to Ireland had been
applied, that were sufficient to remove all confidence
from his mind as to the future management of this
expenditure —(Hear, hear.) lie remembered when
distress was so great in Ireland that a grant from Go-
vernment was given, and a large sum besides was sub-
scribed by the British public, a very large portion of '
which went to pay rents to landlords.—(Hear, hear.)
However, after the assurances of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet, he would not oppose the motion.
Sir H. W. BARRON said he only regretted that this
lsauunigh7 buasst h so
se would
mniL—( a
A sk was this a time,
laugh.) Gentlemen mimghet,
when millions of people were starving in that
country, to be haggling about some paltry fifty thousand
pounds ?—(Hear, hear.) And when he stood up, was
he then to be met by a laugh.—(Hear, hear.) He would
say that this was a paltry sum, when it was borne in
mind the awful state of Ireland at present, where thou-
sands and hundreds of thousands had at that moment no
other resource or dependence than the Government of
the country, and the charity of their neighbours.—
(Hear, hear.) He stated this under the solemn conviction
of the fact, and as the result of his own personal experi-
ence and inquiry in the counties he was connected with.
He was told that the people of Ireland were not to be
considered, because such a step did not agree with the
axioms of political economy. He could only say, that
it was bad economy to haggle about such a paltry sum,
and he for one only objected to the smallness of it. He
hoped at some future time to hear her Majesty's Minis-
ter come down to the House and demand that the
people of Ireland should receive more effectual as-
sistance.

Mr. WILLIAMS said that he was sorry that
he had appeared to his friend unwilling to allow
any assistance to the people of Ireland, as he wat, and
always would be, the last man to hinder any such mea-
sure. He was as anxious as any man to see dis-
tress in Ireland provided against, but he thougth that
there were means of avoiding it by introducing some
measure that would afford the same security to life and
property in Ireland as there was in this kingdom. By
that means there would be a greater inducement for
capitalists to make an outlay of money in that part of
the empire. He knew that Ireland was as capable of
improvement as any part of the United Kingdom, and
afforded as good opportunities of securing money to
account, and he hoped that means would be taken to in-
troduce that peace and confidence which was so essen-
tially necessary to its welfare.
Lord CLEMENTS begged leave to find fault with
some expressions that had fallen from the Hon.
Gentleman, who appeared to forget, or to pay very
little attention to facts. Ho forgot that a vast number
of Irish landed proprietors were living in England and
paying income-tax on revenues derived from Ireland ;
and as that fact could not be disputed, could he object
to a small portion of the tax being returned to
the people of Ireland? There was little or no
reason to suppose that such money would not
be applied to the end for which it was bestowed.
Nothing on the part of her Majesty's Government led
to the supposition that any portion of the grant was to
be laid out on ornamental works. Vast sums of money
had already been laid out on works of that kind; but the
grant now sought for was to be applied to works which
were to be reproductive.
Dr. BOWRING said that the Hon. Member who had
just sat down did not seem to understand the objection
of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Williams), who only wanted
some security that the money would be applied to the
purposes for which it was sought. It was necessary
that some guarantee should be given respecting the
proper application of the grant. He (I)r. Bowring)
would offer his cordial support to any measure calcu
lated to improve the condition of Ireland, only it was
his duty to know that it was properly applied. With
this explanation he would not offer any impediment to
the grant.
RAILWAY BUSINESS FOR THE SESSION.

Sir ROBERT PEEL rose and said,—Sir, I rise
on behalf of her Majesty's Government to state the
course which they recommend in relation to the railway
business of the session. Her Majesty's Government
have felt it their duty to avail themselves of the earliest
opportunity of calling the attention of the House to the
various railway Bills that are about to be sub-
mitted to it, in order to take its opinion
as to the best mode of disposing of them.
The attention of her Majesty's Government has been
called to this subject ; they have seen the necessity of
making arrangements to meet it ; and I, as their organ,
have considered the present time the proper one of call-
ing the attention of the House to it. In ordinary cir-
cumstances it might not have been so urgently necessary
to call your attention so prominently to the question, but
considering the great interests, I have felt it my duty
to bring this matter under your consideration, and
accordingly, I now make this application to the House
for the appointment of a Committee in order to examine
into and report on the best course of disposing of the rail-
way business of the session. The Government, under
ordinary circumstances, might have been prepared to
arrange the carrying out of the business in question, but,
under the existing circumstances, they felt it to be their
duty to ask the House to appoint a Select Committee.
The Government have been making all the necessary
inquiries, and they will be prepared to lay before the
Committee all the information they have acquired, leav-
ing it to them to institute an inquiry, and to report as to
the necessary course the House ought to pursue. Sir, the
importance of the interests involved will be made apparent
by me calling the attention of the House to the numbers
of Rahway Bills passed during the last two years, and
the amount of capital these Bills were empowered to
raise. The number of Railway Bills passed in 1844
was 48, sanctioning the raising of a capital of about
14,708,000 L In 1845—that is last year—the House
agreed to one hundred and eighteen Railway Bills, giving
powers to raise a capital of not less than fifty millions.
It is generally understood that it requires three years
for the completion of a railroad. At least it is now a
matter of experience that, for the formation of a railway
in this part of the United Kingdom, three years are ge-
nerally required for the completion of railways of any
length. If that time be allowed to be correct,
we shall find that for the construction of the railways
which have received the sanction of the Legislature,
during the last three years it will be necessary to levy a
sum of upwards of 70,000,000/. sterling on the capital
of the country for the entire completion of these rail-
ways ; that is to say, that in the year 1846 an amount
of 23,500,000/. will be required to be drawn from the
capital of the country, which is employed in the usual
channels of commerce and trade for the completion of rail-
ways within the year. In the year 1847, also, there will
be required the sum of 23,500,000 i. sterling, which can
be found in no other source that I am aware of than that
which 1 have just stated. And in the year 1848 the
sum of 18,000,0001. must be drawn from the public for
the same purpose. In making this calculation, I of
course intend to except the railways which obtained the
Bills authorising their construction during the last year;
and, therefore, something is to be deducted from this
amount, but including them, the crozzapituivut unaipttat re-
quired for the completion of the railways authorised during
last session, and the years 1843 and 1844 is not a less sum
than 70,000,0001. sterling. Now the sum of 23,500,0002, I
think, it will be allowed, is a very large sum to be
drawn from the ordinary course of its circulation during
one year, and that so large a sum as this cannot b.
thus occupied without detriment to the general advantage,
and, as it appears to me, without serious inconvenience to
the interest of the country. The expenditure of this sum
however, has been sanctioned by the Legislature. I
now turn to the number of railway schemes which have
been deposited at the Board of Trade, and which are
seeking the sanction of Parliament in the course of the
present session. I am aware that the number of
schemes requiring the sanction will be some
time before they can get into the course
of execution. The number of English railway Bills
that have been deposited at the Board of Trade, is 606 ;
the number of Scotch railway Bills, which have been
deposited at the Board of Trade, is 121 ; and the num-
ber of Bills for Irish railways, is 88 ;
will re
fore, no less than 815 Railway Bills, which .
quire the consideration 'and the sanction of Purim-
of these are
ment. I am aware that many . .
lines of rail-
opposing schemes for the. same
give its
.
way, and that Parliament will not give its sanction
to more than one. I am also aware that several of these
there are, there-
with the standing orders.—
(Hear,Bills cannot possibly receive that sanction from their
will, therefore, also
be aware
that the number of these Bills will be very considerably
reduced ; but yet it should be remarked, that
the plans deposited with the Board of Trade pro-
posed the construction of no less than 20,687 miles of
new railway, and that the amount required for their com-
pletion is upwards of the enormous sum of 380,000,0001.
It is impossible that the application of such an amount
of capital to these undertakings can be sanctioned with-
out inflicting injury on the trade and money markets of
the country.—(Hear, hear.) I think it most important,
therefore, at the earliest period of the Session tint the
House of Commons should consider what principles
ought to guide them in railway legislation. Now, no
one can feel more strongly than I do the objections
which there are to the interference either of the Govern-
ment or the House to stop legitimate speculation in
railway or any other undertakings ; and with re-
spect to the railways of this country, I for one
feel most favourably disposed towards the application
of British capital to them, rather than to foreign un-
dertakings, so calculated as they are to the
promotion of fair and legitimate enterprise, so
calculated as they are to promote the con-
venience of the public, and to promote the
general welfare of the people. The question then is,
whether there are good and sufficient reasons for inter-
fering at all with the progress of railway speculation
and if so what should be the principles which guide and

govern that interferance.—(Hear.) In the first place,
then, I think there is great probability, after making
every reduction from the total amount of railway plans
deposited at the Board of Trade, namely, 815, and from
the 20,000 , miles of new lines whiuh they comprise—
after making every reduction from the num-
ber of merely rival schemes, and from the
number which will not pass the ordeal of the
House of Commons, or that will fall through from other
causes, I think there will certainly be such a number of
plans left as to make it almost totally impos-
sible for Committees of this House, bearing in
mind the other important business that will have
to be considered, to devote that proper attention
to them which their extent and importance deir, and.—
(Hear, hear) A t all events, it will be utterly im-
possible to devote due and proper attention to them
in the present year. Now it may be said, if the House of
Commons cannot dispose of its business, we ought to con-
sider whether part of it could not be submitted to
some other tribunal; but I think it is a great and impor-
tant question, whether or no we will permit or encou-
rage so large an application of capital towards these
railway undertakings—whether it is consistent with the
public ad vantage—whether it will be conducive to the best
interests of society, or really conducive indeed to the
satisfactory carrying on of the railway system.—(Hear,
hear.) I repeat I should be more willing to encourage
the application of capital to British railway enterprises
rather than to foreign undertakings, but is it for
the advantage of sound railway enterprises, that such
an enormous amount' of capital should at once be ab
sorbed by them? I doubt it.—(Hear, hear.) I doubt
whether it would not be discouraging, rather' than holding
out
encouragement to legitimate railway schemes, for I
think it probable that, in consequence of the severe com-
petition which would be created by the great and ex-
traordinary demand for labour, and in the great rising.
of prices which the application of such an amount of ca-
pital would occasion, the progress of the railway system
would be considerably retarded, and I doubt whether
some of the estimates would not be found greatly inade-
quate for the completion of tne undertakings themselves.
1 think that it would not be for the benefit of the public
that so great an amount of capital should be diverted
from the natural courses for the formation of railways,
and 1 am of opinion that so extraordinary a demand
as has been made fur money for railway purposes should
not meet with the encouragement of this House.—(Hear.)
But, as I said before, her Majesty's Government has
thought that it was better that the sanction of Parliament
should be necessary, and for that purpose, it is myinten-
tion to move that a Parliamentary Committee, composed
of men whose opinions will be entitled to the highest
respect, should be appointed, whose duty it shall be to
inquire into the merits of the schemes which
shall occupy our future conside:•ation. The plans of all
the lines, as the House will be aware, have been depo-
sited, and they have been classified under different
heads, and the plans which relate to the completion of
existing lines have also been arranged ; for instance,
where a line between the metropolis and a distant part
of the country is now incomplete, either from there being
a void or from some part of it not yet being finished,
these plans, I say, are classified under a different head,
and those of other descriptions arc classified under other
heads. Under another head are classed railways
connected with the internal defence of the country. The
Committee will, therefore, be spared much labour which
might have been necessary if no previous preparation
had been made, I trust, therefore, that the House will
approve of the proposal with which I shall conclude,
namely, that a Select Committee shall be appointed,
for the purpose of considering what course shall
be taken with railwa.) s proposed to be submitted
to the House during the present session. I propose that
the Committee that shall be appointed shall make re-
ports to this House from time to time of the result of
their labours, and the conclusions which they shall have
arrived at. The Right Hon. Baronet then concluded his
speech by moving the appointment of the following
Select Committee, to consider the mode in which the
House shall deal with the Railway Bills proposed to be
submitted to the House during the present session :
Lord Granville Somerset, Sir George Gray, Mr. Strutt,
Mr. Labouchere, Mr. Estcourt, Mr. Greene, Mr. Ewart,
Mr. Colquhoun, Mr. Hodgson Hinde, Mr. Pukington,
Sir George Clerk, Mr. Baring, The O'Conor Don, Lord
Harry Vane, and Mr. Shaw.
Mr. GISBORNE observed that he very much feared
that the decision of the Committee would meet with no
more respect than those of the Board of Trade
did last year. He doubted very much whether the
amount of money which would be subscribed
for carrying out these undertakings would de•
pend on the decision of that House. He would
give them a case in point. About fourteen or fifteen
years ago the Manchester Railway Company
started their project. It was opposed on all sides,
but, notwithstanding the public opposition, Par-
liament decided that it ought to be made,
and although a Bill was passed to unable the
Company to carry out their designs, that rail-
way was never made. He was very sorry that
the Right Hon. Gentleman thought that interference
was at all necessary. He was under the opinion that
the amount of capital invested in these projects would
wholly depend upon the state of the money and labour
market. Upon them it would certainly depend what
would be the amount of railways finally carried into ope-
ration. He had never heard a inure meagre explanation.
He wished to know if the report of the Standing Orders,
Committee, and the other Committees, would be sus-
pended till the Committee now proposed came to a de-
cision?

Sir R. PEEL,who spoke in a very low tone of voice,was
understood to say that the report of the Committee would
be made in sufficient time to prevent any of those in-
conveniences which the Hon. Gentleman alluded to, and
the report of the committee on the standing orders need
not be suspended.
Sir GEORGE GREY said that on this committee
depended the most important results, lie also consi-
dered it desirable that there should be a tribunal of the
kind just referred to for the purpose of obtaining a
record of the facts which were to be ultimately sub-
mitted to the House. This would prevent the great ex-
pense of bringing witnesses up to London, and the work
would be much better done.

Sir ROBERT INGLIS said, that some better
mode of proceeding should be adopted than that pur-
suA last session, for oftentimes gentlemen, after
sitting for a most protracted period, could come to no
decision which gave even themselves satisfaction. There
would be three times as much work this session as there
was last, even if only one-half of the projected lines
were brought forward, and six times as much if they
were all brought forward. He agreed in the suggestions
made for an ambulatory tribunal, for he considered
that 31. out of the 41. now spent would be saved
if the investigation took place on the spot.
On those grounds then he trusted that the Government
would afford the House some further opportunity of con-
sidering the question before they came to a decision upon
the mode in which they were in future to legislate upon
it, and the rule by which railway committees were hence-
forward to be conducted.

Mr. CHARLES BULLER said he looked upon
this matter as one of so great importance, that be would
make no apology, even at that period of the evening, for
addressing a few observations to the House upon the
subject. He trusted that the question of the railway
management would be brought under the con•
sideration of the House at a period when a
comprehensive plan for a more perfect system
could be taken into consideration. It should be recol-
lected that the act of appointing railway committees was
in fact transferring the jurisdiction of the House, and
that was an act to which great importance ought to be
attached, and great attention given to it before it was
done.—(Hear, hear.) lie could net but believe that if the
House were to follow the proposal made by the two
Lion. Members who had preceded him, it would be in-
terfering very materially with the authority of this
House.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) The mode of
forming election committers was a very different matter,
and bore no analogy to this ; bet with regard to railway
committees, he would say, that if the House were to give
up its authority to the Government on the question, it
would be parting with what he would call its local autho-
rity.—(Hear, hear.) A short time since, some gentle-
men waited upon him to request he would in-
terest himself in a railway aboot tr, t» mad.
the neighbourhood of Liskaird ; but he told them
he could not interest himself in any way, in
consequence of being the Member for the town.
Every question in which local interests were concerned
are by the present system transferred to people strange
to the country, and who had little or nothing to do with
its interests. lie said that Parliament should delegate
its authority to a committee of its own body. They
would not be bound by the report of that committee,
but they would pay great attention to its proceedings;
and such a body would help to give information,
and the final judgment might hiezeorfved
Lordsf ot..
the House of Commons and the li
Such a body would be better able, from its
experience to take into cousidertion every question that
came before it. On considering the ease as it was at
present, it appeared preposterous that two inquiries
should be made en the same question
mons and one in the Lords. The House of Lords was
not so essentially different from the Commons, that the
whole question decided by the Commons should be gone
through again before the Lords. How monstrous the
system worked last session. There were three Members
in
the House who had felt its effects, and who were fairly
entitled to the thanks of that House ; and, indeed,
to the thanks of posterity.—(Laughter.) One railway
project had occupied some of the members 84 days, anti
then went before the House of Lo;ds with so good a
prospect of another 84 days, that the matter was
dropped. It was strange that the two Houses should
go through the same process on the same Bill. It would
be infinitely better, if they could agree to it, :o have
matters enquired into by a commission, which would
report to the House upon all bills that came before them
with far greater confidence and ability than under the
present system. He did not mean to say that they were
the perfection of human nature in that House, but they
availed themselves very little of the wisdom they bad
got. A set of gentlemen were put into a railway com-
mittee, and they had to go through their A, B, C, in the
usual proceedings. They entered upon their duties, and
by the aid of counsel and engineers, they acquired some
little knowledge on the sulject. Let them suppose the
Committee of the London and York Railway—the gen-
tlemen there had some opportunity of obtaining a know-
ledge of the proceedings, and of what use was that
knowledge to them? they were turned loose upon
:.ociety.—(Laughter.) Ile supposed the House would
cry out very much if any of those gentlemen were to be
employed this sesion, and the knowledge acquired was o I
no avail whatever to any one. The advantage of
.a
commission would be that a set of persons, whose busi-
ness it was to inquire into these things, would get
shorter
ae-
cunsstomed to it, and get through the business in a
time.—(Bear, hear.) Under the present
of
system,
committee started with the fundamental principles
railways, and after going Cu for thirty days, they
save place to another set of gentlemen.—(Hear, hear.)
what was the effect of this system ? To waste both