The Sun.
London, England, 1833-04-02 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 1.

On the Earl of SHAFTESBURY taking the chair a little
before five o'clock, several private Bills were brought up
arid read a first time.

The Bishop of WORCESTER, presented a petition
from a parish in Worcestershire, praying for the better
observance of the Sabbath.

Lord GOWER presented petitions from the Methodists
of Stoke-on Trent, complaining of the disabilities under
which they laboured, and praying for the better observance
of the Sabbath.

The Marquis of WESTMINSTER presented a petition
from St. Bride's, praying for the better observance of the
S ibbath Day, and a petition from several Welchmen re-
siding in London, praying for the removal of the abuses in
the Welch Church. On the motion of the Noble Marquis,
the petition was read by the Clerk.
Lord KING said that he regretted the absence of a
Rev. Prelate, who, a few evenings ago, had made state-
ments which were not founded in fact, and which, if the
Rev. Prelate were present, he could show were utterly
false.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM said that in the ab-
sence of the Rev. Prelate, he would take upon himself to
say, that the statement which had been made by him was
true.—(Hear, hear.)
The Bishop of BRISTOL said that he was sure the
Rev. Prelate would be able to substantiate the statement
he had made. The Nohle Lord (King) was continually
making attacks upon the church, and was no sooner
knocked down, than he seemed to gather strength by the
fall.—( Hear, heir.)
The Bishop of BRISTOL said that lie rose to present a
petition from the clergy of the deanery of Bristol, who had
consulted together upon a subject which appeared to
them of the most vital importance, namely, the in.
troduction of the Irish Church Refarm Bill. They
were alarmed at hearing that a Bill had been
introduced into the House of Commons, the principles of
which they stated were utterly inconsistent with the prin-
ciples of the Established Church, and at variance with the
Coronation Oath. He agreed with them in those opinions,
and deprecated the introduction of a measure which
would tend to lead to such a violation.—(Hear, hear.)
The Etrl of ELDON said, with respect to the mea-
sure to which the Right Rev. Prelate alluded, he hoped
the last act of his life would ba to oppose it to the very
utmost, as a measure which was desructive to the princi-
ples he had through the whole course of his life supported.
He would rather go out from that House, than give his
consent to such a measure.

Lotd SUFFIELD had several petitions to present to
their Lordships on the subject of negro slavery. He
would take that opportunity of stating to their Lord-
ships the meaning which he and the petitioners put
on the word " limn, diate," as regarded the question.
Some misapprehension on the meaning which he put
on that word had gone abroad, and he begged to say that
it meant, as was expressed in one of the petitions, not im-
mediate emancipation, but that immediate steps for that
object might be taken. The petitions also prayed that it
might be unconditional—on that word also there might be
some quibbling--he begged to say that it only meant that

lal%
the slaves might be emancipated without any lean'
put upon them.
that T
oe
mDeuok
of their
of BUL
oCr
dKslhNi
pG,
shouldHA lI s ai d
move it would
jhoeh ben 0:1
Dictionary be laid on the table ; then there need be,duoi
doubt or difficulty on any words used either by I
"
Lord, or any of the petitioners to that House.
tßhaeLr
oioinr
House
sEheeLtt
that
tr
eeß
shouldO thoughtß O U
always
wouldiwtHawysa
was
afk oer
tphtuheteo
pi
ctpo:trovt
eutihsncet
1114 eel
full attendance of their Lordships to come forward!v,/
petitions on that subject, upon which it was well kne.17:0,1
felt strongly; would it not be better at once to go on
the important subject which was especially sPninwLiili
that night, which every one of their Lordships tio •
Let
grant was very pressing ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) nios
Noble Lord bring forward the subject on a °l—Ai
when their Lordships would be prepared upon it•
there had been so much dispute upon words, he ball.'
b
ihrneacdio,
iupsrrs,h,evaintdode
provided,
hhaeantdexcellentimmediate
found,
ifhrmroaemraynt
meant
hnviscot la; tmth:e
pi
brree
set Lordb
nttb
i°
tee
and Prior had gone wrong in sa • more iininviog
He also found that there was no such word in the --,14;
lish language as unconditional. He found une°4l.-
tionable, which meant absent, not limited by any ter
He hoped the Noble Lord would now be aware of the
of those words, and so save the time of the House in
(0
")
Lord SUFFIELD did not wish to provoke ail ‘,l,the
mhhi
teiyesds
otpitaillitajtecehcee:
aNtonofdo
bpslavery,lureeosEceananr dl
tibaht
titelottrpih:helteiha:beoaoindisishtoiesofednot
thtooebf
t the
boisnoicrinanaolgb,oritniitumnantnts of the country. The petitions were •or_e,;
ui
onnefisrocomrtObyld, Oldham, numerously signet; fromLanitibiyeirdt°lo;
En wn, and from an le
named Busted, of Newcastle-u on- Ty, 10'-
ne stating eethe
atrocities which he had observed in a
P residence—

West Indies.
Earl GREY did not intend to enter in', met
discussion on the meaning of the word 01*
diate—he certainly understood it in the %V in
it was explained by the Noble Lord on a late et.' osly,
However,dgriteeeewndito
th him
hoped that the House would unseilo
a
that
di
mint„hceusw,ioisnh......thrAthlaetg
rieis)l.l)ould be 71
frog
The E irl of ROSEBERY presented a tietitieom of
. to
Killrenan, Argyleshire, against the present sr
church patronage in Scotland. '
Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a petition of
Disney, in Yorkshire, praying for a better observitectlf4
the Sabbath. He would take that opportunity of mould
that to the Bill introduced into the other House ue -
not in aTny way give his support. dotal
Lord EYNHAM presented a petition from the—
of Meath, praying for the repeal of the Union. Ws
The Bi,hop a LONDON presented petition.
several parishes in London, praying for the better op
v ince of the. Sabbath. In consequence of Whillft oulti
fallen from the Noble Baron on this subject, he ,:ipar
say that be knew nothing of the Bill alluded to htl" 00,1
the public papers ; but be would say that the tradeeked
who, from religious motives or otherwise, wished their.
the Sabbath as a holyday, was entitled t(l,o,gbt
Lordships' protection. He would say that he -
the measure went too far. noble
Lord ELLENBOROUGH hoped that either the gable
Baron or the Rev. Prelate would introduce a reams id'
Bill on the subject, for as for the present Bill, it was
possible it could receive the sanction of either Ilouee'f le•
Earl GREY presented petitions tor the abolition o
very, and the abolition of county cess. itie°
fromrheplAylmaroquutihs, opfraLyAinNg Stil?eotroNusEe
toprerseegnutleadtestirbi ore
of labour in factories. -

IRISH COERCIVE BILL. by the
Earl GREY rose and read the amendment made
Commons in the Irish Bill which took the trial 01
cal offences from under the jurisdiction of courtsmalll;ete
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, that if there
good reasons when the 1111 was first introduce tej,
for their Lordships to suppoae that juries were intiull autse
and that the powers of the common law were Wit, the
dent, the Noble Earl must show than a difference 'eriheal
better had taken place before he could call uP"°.,,tlisl
to agree to the amendment. If he could not eh% sytta
the state of the country was better now than 1"
then, and called upon them to support the amendreedna'tel
must have been in the wrong when he first intro the
the Bill. When a Bill somewhat sitnilae_Atoweeb
present was introduced in 1829, there exist
an bed
more serious agitaaion than existed months.nowB-.-'
existed at any period during the last twelve ,00
(!fear, hear.) The election for Clare, then, uhr es,
to view the system of organization wbie•
isted in Ireland—the military organizael° w•hi% hitt
been established by the Ca, holly. it's`lciat")n tbinl;
the Government of day thatdid
lone lot
_
it was necessary to introduce so svere a 04
as the Noble Earl had brought forward,e beelecold
thought they might have confidence in juror', a° (gear,
trust in the common powers of the law' sbuvi
bear, hear.) It the Noble Eat 1 cum" fall,
that that justice which, when he first introduced theus,al
he said could not be appealed to, could now be tar, ,
in, he would agree to the amendment of the COllll9--'
eneg
The Earl of ELDON thought that they were paiost
in the consideration of a cons:itutional question/ t:'-coiat-
inportant to the country. Necessity justified what it toe
pellet!, but his Majesty's Ministers were much ta
if they had induced the House to agree to courtscree;il,
fur the trial of certain offences, on the ground 01 ee faitY
if that necessity did not exist-, for nothing but °eet-rciiglf
could justify such a provision. He felt somewhat which
upon this subject, on account of the position in to the
that House was by this measure placed with reaalq,Ljarlu
country. The men who had been opposed to the "- and
Aet had been represented as enemies of civil line ;e en'
and of the rights which all man in this countrybseNe
titled to enjoy. He warned the Noble Earl to jts ar
how soon that sort of language might be altered ial:osa the
pLcation.—(Hear.) He was really ashamed to see ttb,;
Noble Earl was now made the subject of abuse t'irt°egar''
out the country. The country papers said, with regard
to that measure of Reform, which they Called a rea, 00
lion of the old law of the country, but whieb
itNas
more a restitution of the old law of the country Ib3naasoce
a testitution of the principles of the constitution of 'irj to
—(Hear)—the countiy papers said, with regoloW
that measure, something of tae same kind thattb
So
repeated with regard to this measure—they said'opiao
matter what the House of Lords say, or what the "CO'
of the House of Lords is, we will• go to the House m bold
mons and get all that altered." The Noble F:ael c b
take heed of this. There were various ways i a 'll,:ilihai
Bill might be brought into Parliament. Thi"-a 'passe'
been brought into the House of Lords, and ha"
through that House upon the responsibility of there alone
tern. If the Bill was not wanted, the MinisteordP
were responsible. He would not stand before his° 60;
arid be abused as a man who would give up the cOir.
coo t% of
lion of his country, when he could say to that
did not consent to this Bill, but ou the responsibilitioac
those who told us that Ireland could not be saved naglit
it." If the whole people of England could be or them
within a distance to hear him, he should declare taro tbe
that lie would rather suffer death than take awaY fr`•:taleto
subject the right to trial by jury, and make him 111't Iha!
be tried by courtstnartial, if he had not thoug
and
such a measure was absolutely necessary for the safe i'letu,)
protection of the people of Ireland.—(llear,le 11•14
Under there circutnstances, he must pre.s the raga sire
for an answer to the question, whether these. me alea',
were necessary now? To pledge that House t°ll itb°°l
sures, and then in this way to abandon theio, %.1 00
any apparent reason whatever, was to do that
tend to the destruction of that House and of the c° ,edge
tion. lie hoped that the House would never bejto lie
in that manner again. When a Noble Lomb tes
now saw in his place, had come down to Parlian'
Minister on a similar occasion, he had done soulieces'itP
absolute pressure of necessity, and, under that nthan
eat
had got a Bill read three times in one night. 1: wet!
was when the mischief was Si) immediate that fo
0010
necessarily sacrificed. He had no object but talc al
ao
duly; and he would not allow himself to be es_ toiou
enemy of his country because he had only done bet es
of a re
appeared to he his duty, upon the representation
sponsible Minister.
Earl GREY—My Lords, no one is more
PurrwilliPgttibso6l,
myself to give credit to the Noble Earl for the fo'
his motiyes—for his regaid to the consti:ution %coati',
the sound reason with which he desires that all' lai°
shall be govermd. I subscribe to the position lie,,,Uaiotto;
down, that this wile a measure of necessity--i e
t "09..4,1301'
duced as a measure of necessity, and, therefioon'ioitsee
the usual formality of the appointment of areri
of Inquiry, as it was thought that the circtonsta;,
such as to carry with them its justificatio fn ;,,,e a j e:
such
the satisfaction of seeing that %ie.,' o 303
adopted in this House almost uninitnoraale where
ts el
necessity a emitted by considerable ma•r" ieaca 0e aaea",l#
—(lhar, hear, hear.) I subscribe also in
.0 `
to the proposition, not that what necessity
,1;
veae.ie
coulP• .
necessity justifi,s, but that what necessity ~aoae
sity limits, This measure, which went, to 0 a ,
subject of part of his legal rights, I introduceda,We'xraieil
most painful feelings ; and if ivh it I have dune 4.100,.
inc to the severe iefi ctions that the Noble Ea o 0
the . Poo P
inmates, I shall console myself with
that it was a painful discharge of that duty

ter►ls bad

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be an I

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at srte"

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eti
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it), of 'told
ouse

the o°l
Jo• root
etitiont 0 00.
better hoi
of irh.,,t 000
be woo
d to but reia
be trade.",
• hed `albeit
is_ do
ed t
tb° bt
;be 4

Noble
ler the ' bie
a rea'°lol.
1, it via'
• flou'e'f e le-
alition o

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ve the hoo

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tiosi
all hi, ac
3 be blisntoro'
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Conig's,ll ers,
a flees -
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and bjec
the °la ij
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es -
elieW
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Norae ale
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„,„.1s ahe
ve '
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e
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•10 ."aeetit':
be re",fbo"
duty