The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-21 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

(YESTERDAY.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
GROUP I.
TEE LONDON AND YORZ.

The Committee met this day at eleven o'clock. The Earl of Love-
lace, chairman.
Mr. Tat.noT, Q.C., said, he had the pleasure of handing in the
traffic tables of the Eastern Counties scheme, as ordered by their
Lordships. He would also hand a copy to his Learned Friend (Mr.
Sergeant Wrangham), whom he had no doubt would find them very
light and agreeable reading.—(Laughter.) At the same time he could
not avoid saying, that those tabled were more in detail than those
given by his Learned Friend, and he should feel obliged if he would
furnish similar details.
Mr. Sergeant Waationam would have no objection to give the de-

tailed tables wished for by his Learned Friend. He would take that
opportunity of putting a question to his Learned Friend, which, if
answered, would very materially aid the present investigation. He
wished to know what line it was his Learned Friend relied on as the
competing line to the London and York ? Their Lordships would see
that there were several Bills in the group which had nothing to do
with the through communication from London to York. He appre-
hended it would be desirable recall parties, more especially for their
Lordships, to know what was meant to be the competing system with
London and York. The latter line speaks for itself, and therefore
what he wanted to learn was, what was the combination of lines, or
which oat of that combination was the single, if indeed a single line
could be relied on, which was to be put up as the antagonist lire to
the London and York ? He did not ask their Lordships to be guided
by what was done in the other House, but from their report it seemed
that they had divided the group iu such a way as to have the district
competing trunk lines together. On the one hand was
the London and York line; and then they took the
Tottenham and Farringlon-street Extension, the Cambridge
and Lincoln, and that portion of the Direct Northern which formed
the antagonist system to the London and York. Their Lordships
would find it stated, in the first page of their report, •, That the
Committee, therefore, proceeded first, to hear the case of the London
and York CoMpany, which proposes a new and integral line from
London to York, and next those of the Cambridge and Lincoln, the
Direct Northern, and the Tottenham and Farringdon:street Exten-
sion lines, which, together with the Eastern Count' co
That was
scheme, were
recommended for this purpose by
the Board of Trade."
the course which they took ; but it was not because they
took that course that . he asked his Learned Friend
the question which he had put to him, but he did so because of the
obvious convenience which it would be to the Committee, In the first
plaoe, as well as to those whom he had the honour to represent, that
they might know the ease wbsch thleythweourled-ehxaavmeintoaumoe netoarflfs:.
direct their examinations—for exam') e
Cubitt, and the examination of the other engineers. He hoped his
Learned Friend would not object to answer the question. The talc
tables just handed in referred to the Eastern Counties Railway ex-
tension from c amoridge to Milford, and from March to Lincoln.
Now, he wished to know if the line from March to Lincoln was to be
set up alsoas part of the scheme?
Earl Lovetaoz—lf we can have the answer in a few words it
would be very desirable, but if it is to involve a long speech we
should have two opening speeches, which we certainly do not require.
Mr. TALBOT said he feared that if he attempted to answer the
questions it would involve going into the whole case. He should have
to explain how his lines became competing with. the London and
York.

_
Mr. Sergeant WAANGHAM only wanted to know which were the
competing lines.

Mr. TALBOT said that his brief answer to that question was' that
he appeared there in suppert of the Bills which they had laid on the
table.

After some further discussion on this point, Mr. Cubitt was called
and cross-examined by Mr. TALBOT at great length.
In the cross-examination of Mr. Cubitt nothing was elicited at all
calculated to shake the evidence in chief.
At the citueusion of the cross-examination for the ease of the
Eastern Counties.,
Mr. TALBOT said he appeared for his Grace the Archbishop of
York, whose property would be affected by the London and York
Railway.

The cross-examlnation of Mr. Cubitt was then proceeded with—
The line would interfere with part of his Grace's farm ; it would
divide the farm from the residence, and go close to the kitchen-
garden.

By Lord 'Vim:ft—lt was not a residential interference, and by a
deviation the line could be carried out without any interference with
this farm at all.

By Mr. TALBoT--,rhe line, as it at present stood on the plan, would
interfere with the kitchen-garden, but not so as to injure it ; it would
merely touch the wall. The interference with the farm would cer-
tainly separate it from his Grace's residence. Had had an interview
with his Grace upon the matter, and he informed witness that his
objection to the railway was not as regarded himself, but
as it would affect the property of his successors to the
see. The line would not cut off the farm on a level.
There would be an embankment of seven or eight feet. The
distance at which they would cross from his Grace's Palace was,
as shown on the plan, about 24 chains, which was more than a
quarter of a mile, and there were walls and gardens and a turnpike-
road intervening.

By Lord VIVaN-1115 Grace did not come to an agreement for a
deviation. but he (witness) pointed out how that deviation would
leave the farm untouched.
_..

Mr. BaiNEs said he appeared for the Cambridge and Lincoln Ex-
tension, on behalf of which he would put a few questions to the
witness.
Mr. Sergeant WILINGUAN would object to his Learned Friend
appearing, and he would briefly state his reasons. A meeting of the
shareholders in this undertaking had been held down in the country
very recently, at which meeting it was decided to abandon the line.
This he was able to state on the authority of one of the shareholders
who had attended the meeting, and who had written to the editor of
the Morning herald, not only confirming a report of such meeting in
that paper, but also materially adding to the fact of the number of
votes for discontinuing the scheme being more than the number re-
quired by Parliament. This being the case, he could not see what
locus standi his Learned Friend could lay claim to so as to appear for
that which in reality diet not exist.
Mr. BAINEs said that he certainly was not instructed to that effect.
His instructions were that he was to appear for the promoters. lie
knew nothing of any meeting. He was wholly guided by his in-
structions.
Mr. Sergeant Wait:temp,' said he would not object to his Learned
Friend proceeding under the circumstances.
Mr. Bacyria then briefly cross-examined the witness, after which
he was re-examined by lir. Sergeant Witaxenam.
Mr. Ilawkshaw, dell engineer, was then called to speak to the esti-
mates.

Mr. Betts, the contractor, also gave evidence as to the estimate
for his department of constructing the line.
It being now four o'clock,
Mr. DENISoN informed the Committee that there was but one
more witness to examine, who would be called on the following
morning, and who would only occupy a few minutes.
Itwas then arranged that the landowners' case against the London
and York should be the next gone into.
The Committee adjourned till eleven o'clock to-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROIn. X.
The Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, in Room No. 1
(House of Commons) ; present, Mr. Deedea (chairman), Mr. Ark
Wright, Mr. Farnham, Mr. Stanley, and Mr. Vivian, and proceedu
with the

lIIMASGOIXT, AIRDRIE, AND MONZZELNDS

317NCTION.

Mr. Annits stated the case for the promoters of this railway
which is to commence at a point to the east of the High-street o
Glasgow, on or near the site of the College Buildings, and joining the
Airdrie and Bathgate Junction, at Airdrie. The length of the main
line is ten miles five furlongs and a half. There will be a branch of
two miles six furlongs and nine chains, which will join the Clydesdale
Junction, near Rutherglen, by which the line would be connected,
through the Polloc and Govan and other railways, with the harbour
of Glasgow. Another branch, seven miles in length, would termi-
nate in Mile-End, a very populous manufacturing district of Glasgow.
From Coatbridge another branch will join the Wishaw and Coltness
Railway, which intersects the extensive upper coal fields of
Lanarkshire. The importance of the line required little ar-
gument. The population of Glasgow is 340,000, and increas-
ing in a great ratio, and the town is known to be not only
engaged most extensively in manufactures, but also a ship-
ping port of superior coneequeace. The owners of minerals
in Lanarkshire, as well as the iuliabitants of Glasgow, were greatly
interested in having the means of delivering the vast quantity of coals
consumed there at the most itonvenient points, and at the cheapest
rates. By the main line the wisole of the eastern parts of the city,
and by the branch to Mile-End two-thirds of the factories and public
works, would be supplied with coals at a less cost, and with greater
regularity than at present. This district of Glasgow, which is chiefly
occupied by the labouring classes, is at present supplied with coals
from distant pits, by cartage, at an expensive rate, or from the depots
of certain railways. The railway will go ,near the agricultural
bazaar and the cattle market, which is regarded as a great
advantage to all parties. The Learned Gentleman commented at
considerable length upon various other direct and collateral
advantages of the line, on which a very great amount
of passenger traffic is anticipated. The district is at
present almost destitute of railway communication. Almost
all the proprietors on tho line were favourable to it, and there were
no engineering difficulties, no tunnels, and no expensive works. He
observed that there were two lines competing with this, and re-
ferred to the same Committee—the Caledonian (Dundyvan Branch)
and the Caledonian (Glasgea-, Garnkirk, and Coatbridge Branches).
The Learned Gentleman went Jute a detailed comparison of the
merits of the three lines, contrasting strongly the demerits of the
other two with the excellencies of tide. The principal points were,
that the Dundyvan Branch would pass through the country
in a way_ injurious, to the landed proprietors, without giving
the same advantages as the present undertaking would
give to the factories, public works, and the owners of minerals;
the Dundyvan Stench having also:engineering disadvantages,
and not supplying, the population of Glasgow with coal to the eau;
extent, or at the same low cost. The Glasgow, Garnkirk, and Coat-
bridge branchcs would make the distance between Glasgow and
Airdrie twelve miles instead of ten and a half, as by the line now
before the Committee. Moreover, the Caledonian Company, by ob-
taining the branches applied for in opposition to this line, would be
put in possession of an injurious monopoly.
Mr. M`lizit. (who was with Mr. Austin) examined Mr. Bankie,
the provost of the suburban borough of Glasgow, called the Calton,
who gave. evidence strongly in favour of this project, as compared
with its competitors.
Mr. IViimioni, who appeared for the Dundyvan branch, and for
certain petitions, eross-exanained the witness with a view to elicit
that the parts of Glasgow to be accommodated by his clients were
more important than the eastern parts of the city.
It Other Witnesses were examined to the same and, and underwent
a lengthened cross examination by the counsel for tue competing lines.
The details were too minute to be fully reported.

The CIi#III3CAN said chat the Committee did not require any fur-
ther evidence of 'Sallies along the line, and thee would proceed to
receive thle engineering. evidence to-morrow at twelve o'clock. _ _

311. HILDYAILD, sald that the promoters were prepared with
further evidence of the same kind, but if the Committee were satisfied
in this respect there would be no advant.ige in crowding evidence.
The CitAissuist intitnAted that the Committee were satisfied.
It beinifour o'clock' the Committee then adjourned.

•
GROUP XIII.
This Committee met to-day at 12 o'clock, Sir William Clay in the
chair. Other Members !present, Earl Jermyn, Mr. P. Ainsworth,
and Mr. Curteis.
•
GLASGOIXT, IiILTWZIPRIES, AND CARLISLE.
The furihereonskleration of the clauses of this Bill was resumed.
Evidence Itaviant been tendered as to the-present rate of tolls on the
Ayrshire and Glasgow line, the clauses at the Dumfries line relating
thereto, a 9 well as the others which are unoppwed, were read and
severally agreed
;The whole to.
Bill, with the exception' of the 'clauses relating to the
branches with which the Caledonian Extension competes tea certain
extent, having been disposed of; the Committee resented the further
consideration of the

Nownit ExTrISH CAILLISLM EXTENSION.
Mr. John Lang, of Nawick, examined-
Was a partner in the firm
of Dixon and Lang, which employed from 900 to 1,000 persons. He
thought the proposed line would bo of great benefit to the town of
Hawick. •One of the principal advantages would be a direct commu-
nication with Liverpool. A considerable amount of woolwaths atat
present brought from Liverpool, and the quantity from
quarter was increasing. The wool so ebtained was Australian and
American.. He bad no doubt if the present line was formed
that port in course of time would become the great reart for their
wool. Last autumn he bought 500 bales of wool, which took two
months before they reached Hawick. They came in a sailing vessel
to Annan. • He got also dye stuffs and oils from Liverpool, and from
Kendal. Quick dispatch was Important for the fancy trade in which
Hawick was principally engaged. and the present line would do much
to forward that end. Coals at present were brought from Canobie to
Hawick by carts. They test 935.6 d. a ton. The consumption of
coal increased last year about twenty-five per cent., and
would greatly increase if a railway communication were
formed with the Canoble coal-fields. His firm last year
consumed about 500 tons; but if coals were cheapened, steam power
In many instances would be substituted for water power. Building
materials were also very dear, slates for instance were brought from
Annan by tarts, a distance of 43 miles. Some American timber and
bricks were also brought from Annan. Bricks were also brought I I
from Leith: The bricks lie referred to were fine bricks for flues, as
the houses were built of stone. Their iron castings for machinery
were brought from Carlisle. The railway would be a great benefit In
bringing building materials from the south. Nearly a 57 tons of
wool were consumed in Hawick last year, to make up. Witness and
Mr. Wilson met the principal manufacturers on the subject, and from
what transpired, ae well as his knowledge of the trade of the town, he
considered the amount stated correct.
Cross-examined by air. I:lour/Ds —The firm of which he was a
member, had opened a house in Glasgow, • but the other mauufac-
turers he 6elleved had not. The most of the goods manufactured
went northwards ; a great amount to Glasgow. The principal trade
of the towetwas hosiery, tweeds, and shawls. Ile could not tell the
proportion of the tnanufactured goods that went to London. The
carriage of hale goods from Flawick to London was from 4/. to 61.
The charge for cartage from Ilawick to Leith was IL 10s
Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS here objected to
of
cross-eamlnation
on the greund that the only part
cthe scheme,was the position from Langhol Car-
Hale, Caledonian Could object to,
Hale, which would compete with their Langholm branch. Beyond ar-
this they had no locus standi, as not a single petition had been
pree
sented against the portion of their (the North British) line from
Hawick to .Langaolm. Had the Caledonian intended to appear
against it, they should have presented a petition.
Mr. RickAans said It was too late to make the objection, as both
the Duke of Bucclench and Mr. Wilson had been asked similar
questions yesterday. The Caledonian opposed the whole scheme,
and from the position of this, as a competing project to the Cale-
donian, he submitted the latter had a good locus stuncli.
The Comniittee overruled the objection as untenable.
Mr. Lang's cross-examination continued—He had been informed that
the Messrs. Pickford brought goods from Newcastle to London for 31.
per ton. Newcastle was 60 miles distance from Hawick. The
whole distance from Hawick to London was 350 miles. At present
the sailing Veseela from Leith to London took five or eia days to go,