The Sun.
London, England, 1848-05-12 00:00:00

UNITED STATES.

movedfohrer
Majesty's Government and
copies of extracts from the
corAriers.pflonUME
dence between
the Minister of the United States respecting the rates of
postage and the differences respecting the Post-office
department.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re-
gretted that the Government had not succeeded in
effecting arrangements with the United States, but still
he hoped that they would succeFd in doing so, and until
then he did not think it expedient to produce the cor
respondence.

THE REVENUE.
Colonel SIBTHORP wished to know the financial
condition of the country at the present moment ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that the past week showed a great improvement in the
condition of the finances of the country, which was grati-
fying, inasmuch as it was considerably above the aver-
age for some time past.
AMERICAN POSTAGE.
Mr. BRIGHT inquired, with respect to the motion of
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose on the
subject of American postage, whether the American
Legislature had not adopted a retaliatory principle in
consequence of the.postages charged by this country,
and adopted an increased rate of postage, which was
intended to be continued so long as that rate continued.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had received information to the effect that the Ameri•
cans had agreed to charge a higher rate of postage upon
their own citizens, but that it would in no way affect the
citizens of this country.
DENMARK.
Mr. URQUHART inquired whether the recent block-
ade by the Danish Government was legal, in accordance
with the terms of the treaty of 1720, with respect to
Russia and Prussia ?
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that the treaty in ques-
tion did not apply to the recent disturbances between
Russia and Prussia.
THE WEST INDIES.

In reply to Mr. HUME,
Lord G. I3ENTINCK stated that he did not expect
the Committee, of which he was the chairman, would be
able to make their report for three weeks or a month.
Mr LAROUCHEHE said that 234 distinct proposi-
tions had been propounded in connexion with the
matter, and that as a matter of course some time was re-
quired for their consideration.
Mr. FIUME hoped the Government would take the
matter into their own hands. He was prepared to bring
Lis
motion forward on Monday, but if it was the wish of
the House he would not bring it forward before the

report was presented. He would, however, state to-
morrow what course he should adopt with respect to the
matter.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that, after to-morrow,
he should move that the public business should com-
mence at half-past four, instead of five, as heretofore.
HORSHAM.
Mr. GORING then moved, pursuant to notice, "That
Mr. Speaker do issue his warrant to the Clerk of the
Crown, to make out a new writ for the election of a
Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the
borough of Horsham, in the room of John Jervis, Esq.,
w hose election has been determined to be void." His
Honourable Friend had withdrawn his motion on
this subject on the express understanding that
the Noble Lord should bring in a Bill
upon the subject ; that Bill had been brought in, but
the further proceeding with it had been postponed
yesterday, in order, as he understood, that another
Bill might be proceeded with. Now he deprecated the
adoption of such a course, as the result would be
that Horsham would be unrepresented till that Bill

had been decided. Ho trusted that the borough of
Horsham would not be allowed to remain in hot water

during the whole of the present session.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had certainly advised the
House not to issue the writ for Horsham, on the ground

that it was advisable to have an inquiry on the subject.
It did not appear to him material whether the inquiry
should be by the House or by commissioners. He
had, however, taken the opinion of several Members,
and they were of opinion that inquiry would be
better effected by commission rather than by Bill, and
on that ground the Bill had been postponed.
Mr. HUDSON did not believe the Noble Lord
would have any difficulty in passing the Govern-
ment Bill, if they had a bona fide desire that
it should do so. He therefore could not understand

why it should be postponed. He trusted the Noble
Lord would at once proceed with the Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL reminded the Hon. Gentleman
that when Mr. Hume's motion was before the House
he expressed an opinion that the writ ought to be
delayed until an inquiry had been instituted into the
amount of corruption in the borough.
Lord H. LENNOXregretted that he had so completely
misunderstood the Noble Lord when he had the honour

of moving the writ for the borough of Horsham. On that
occasion the Hon. Member for Montrose moved an
amendment, which the Noble Lord partially acquiesced
in. The Noble Lord seemed at the time to think that
the circumstances of the case demanded an inquiry, and
it was therefore necessary that the issuing of the writ
should be postponed till the Bill authorising the inquiry
had been passed.
Mr. HUME rose to disabuse the mind of the Hon.
Member for Sunderland of the notion he appeared to

entertain, that this general measure would involve
the country in expense. It would rather save
expense, and he could not help thinking that Govern-
ment was pursuing a wise and constitutional course.
No one who had read the evidence taken before the
Horsham Committee could conscientiously say that
there had not been improper proceedings in that
borough.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR was as anxious that abuses
should be inquired into as any man, but he must protest
against the proposal to select a few boroughs out of a
number to strike an average of the amount of corruption
in each. There ought to be a separate inquiry into
the state of each borough.
Sir G. GREY said that ,was what Government pro-
posed to do.
Mr. MANGLES hoped. the House would not consent
to the issuing of the writ till the inquiry had taken
place. Every Member of the House knew that in almost
every small borough throughout the country, say of
from 500 to 550 voters, about 220 voters were sincere
and honest Tories or Conservatives, and about the same
number Liberate or 'W hags; and then there were between
forty or fifty dishonest men who could turn
the scale either way, and were disposed to
sell the election to whatever party chose to
buy it. However they might shut their eyes to the fact,
every person knew that it was the case, and that there
v, as no chance of getting the election unless with the
assistance of these men. He, therefore, did hopo that
the Government would take measures to purge the laws
of the abuses which existed in them.

Mr. STUART said he wished to know what was to
be done with the borough of Horsham, and be, more-
over, wished to hear the Government explain and justify
the course which they had taken with respect to that
borough and the other boroughs involved in the Bill of
the Hon. Baronet. He contended that the course which
was proposed to be taken was unconstitutional with re-
gard to the House, and not creditable to the Govern•
meat. No person could understand what the object of the
Bill was; but if the Government meant to do justice in
punishing the offences they could not do so by inquiring
all over the kingdom where similar offences had been
committed, but by applying themselves to one case of
gross delinquency when they found it out. The ques-
tion now before the House related only to the borough
of Horsham, and he could hardly think that the House
would be satisfied with the conduct of the Government,
which tie considered unprecedented and highly improper.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said it was for the House to deter-
mine whether the special circumstances urged against the
issuing of the writ were sufficient to induce the House
to refuse to issue the writ. But it was for the electors who
petitioned against the return to show that the condition
of the borough was such that the writ ought to be re-
fused. The House having granted writs in the cases
of Lancaster, Carlisle, Sligo, Aylesbury, and Harwich,
he could not sec any reason why they should refuse to
issue the writ.
Mr. STAFFORD supported the issuing of the writ.
Lord J. RUSSELL expressed his intention, it the Bill
proceeded, that he should proceed with the Bill which
the Government had introduced.
Sir J. HAMMER said if the House would not accede
to the second reading—(No, no)—he would suggest that
the Bill, with the amendments, should be printed,
and that the second reading should stand for the 7th
of June. After a pause the Hon. Baronet said, the Noble
Lord had stated that he would give him this day
week. Well, he would bring it on this day week.
Mr. HENLEY would vote for the issuing of the writ,
because, what with the Noble Lord's Bill that he would
not go on with, and the Hon. Baronet's Bill that he could
not go on with, the unfortunate people of Horsham were
between heaven and earth.—(A laugh.)
The SOLICITOR GENERAL objected to the issuing
of the writ.
Sir R. PEEL certainly had at first some doubts as
to the propriety of suspending the issuing of the writ
for Horsham, but those doubts were removed when the
Noble Lord at the head of the Government stated
that his object in proposing that postponement was
that further inquiry might take place. On that under-
standing he had consented to the postponement ; but he
certainly understood that the inquiry on the part
of the Government was to be instituted immediately.
He thought that the best course to be pursued would
be, that the Government should undertake the
conduct of the Bill, for the purpose of insti-
tuting and proceeding with the inquiry. The in-
definite suspension of a writ was a serious matter,
and this question ought to be disposed of with as little
delay as possible. Considering, therefore, that the
Solicitor-General had been consulted upon the clauses
of this Bill, and had actually undertaken to explain
them to the House, surely, it would not be a great
addition to his trouble it he himself were to take up
the Bill on the part of the Government.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord INGESTRE said he should vote for the issuing
of the writ.
Mr. COL VILE wished to know whether Sir John
Hanmer intended to bring his Bill on the first thing on
Thursday?
Sir JOHN HANM ER replied in the affirmative.
Mr. E. DENISON said though he did not intend to
vote for the issuing of the writ now, he could not consent
to its indefinite suspension, and unless some satisfactory
result was come to on Thursday next, or Government
took up the Bill, he for one would not withhold his vote
fur the issuing of the writ.
Mr. GORING said he was not averse to inquiry, on
the contrary he was in favour of it, and had no objec-
tion to place the borough of Horsham in the schedule
of the Bill. He could not, however, consent to with-
draw his motion for the issue of the writ.
The House then divided, whe❑ there appeared—
Fur the issuing of the writ
Against it
Majority
LUNATIC ASYLUMS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved the second reading
of this Bill, and said that he wished to state that a better
regulation of lunatic asylums prevailed, considering the
absolute and abject condition of pauper lunatics in Scot-
land. Look, said he, to the state of that country, and
when you are given to understand, on the most undeni •
able proofs of the Commissioners appointed to investi-
gate into their wretched condition, that there are in
Scotland twenty-four counties without one single luna-
tic asylum, will you not say that their affliction is
worthy of the consideration of the humane and chari-
table ? Then there are six counties where a few hospi-
tals or asylums exist, and to those gather all the afflicted,
or at least as many as can possibly, from the twenty-
four to which I have already alluded. At present there are
in Scotland 3,400 lunatics. Of these there are 1,660 who
can support themselves; of the pauper lunatics, 1,770 have
not a solitary cell in any asylum throughout the country.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then alluded to
the number of lunatics in several of the counties
who were able to support themselves, and to the
quadruple number of pauper lunatics, and implored the
sympathy of the House and the country to redeem crea-
tures suffering the most agonising torture, both mentally
and bodily. He then, in a most pathetic manner, de-
scribed some melancholy sufferings of those creatures,
and trusted that the House would evince its well-known
generosity to fellow-creatures and fellow-subjects who
are doomed to such afflictions. From the communica-
tions he had received, and the statistical returns he had
seen, he had every reason to believe that the measure
would be attended with considerable success. In order
to make it the more extensively efficient, he should pro-
pose that it go th:ough a Committee up stairs, where
its defects might be the better corrected on a discus-
sion.—(Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. F. MACKENZIE,
Mr. HUME said ho should not oppose the Bill, be-
cause he took it for granted that a Committee up stairs
would deal with it properly, and he hoped that in parti-
cular the question of expenditure would receive due
consideration.
Mr. AGLIONBY said he believed the Bill was not
wanted in Scotland, though he should not now oppose
it on principle. There was a very excellent asylum in
the neighbourhood of Dumfries, which occasioned some
expenditure to the inhabitants of the district, and the
operation of this Bill would be to increase it.
After a few words from Mr. FORBES,
Mr. EWART said he should give his support to the
Bill of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Lord Ad-
vocate, but would beg to call his attention to a circum-

Le Juts

stance connected with the subject. Dumfries possessed
perhaps the finest asylum in the kingdom, and therefore
he hoped that an exemption might be made for this place,
which could include as a district the counties of Dum
fries, Kirkeutlbr;ght, and Wigton.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL of SCOTLAND ex-
plained, that the Bill in such a case would not occasion
An unnecessary expenditure.
Sir G. GREY supported the Bill, and approved of the
Lord Advocate's plan of referring it to a Select Com-

mittae up stairs.
Mr. S. WORTLEY supported the Bill, and said that
his experience i❑ the county of Bute fully bore out the
correctness of the principle upon which it proceeded.
Sir D. DUNDAS also supported the measure, which,
be said, was really an act of charity towards the un-
fortunate persons who would be the objects of it in

_
Scotland.
The LORD ADVOCATE having explained,
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to

be referred to a Select Committee.
REMOVAL OF ALIENS BILL.
On the order of the day being moved to read this
Bill a third time,
The Earl of AU/sTDEL and SURREY read an ex-
tract from a letter of 15Iontalembert, in which he dis-

claimed having ever excited any hostility to England,
hut hoped at the same time that she would do justice to
Ireland.

Mr. MOWATT moved that the Bill be read a
,hird time that day six months. He thought the

Bill was a gross outrage on public opinion,
and that the Government ought by this time to
have stated some case upon which he might ask them
to pass the Bill. If the country were in that state
of peril which the Noble Lord at the head of the Go-
prnment would have them infer, it would be the more
easy for them to state that case, and their negligence in
that respect was, therefore, the more culpable. He
thought that the right feeling of the people of this coun-
try would at all times, if there were necessity, be suffi-
cient to counteract any designs of foreigners against the
peace and security of this country. It would, were
there any attempt on the part of foreigners to disturb
the quiet of the country, be as easy to track them as it
would a wild beast. They had had nothing of late but
a series of harsh and illiberal measures at the hands of a

Government calling itself not only liberal, but the
light and spirit of the age in this country.—(Hear,
hear.) First, they had in this session, the Irish co-
ercion Bill ; then they had " the'Gagging Bill;" and
now they were about to be afflicted with the proposed
Alien Bill. He considered it a most silly, childish,
uncalled-for, and, he must say, tyrannical Bill—a Bill
which was an outrage on the common sense of the day-.
He had had much intercourse with the people of the

continent, and in particular with the French, and all the
foreigners with whom he had communicated agreed in
strongly condemning the Bill, which they pronounced as
a Bill calculated to exasperate the violent party in Re•
publican France against this country. It was true that
they had had a revolution recently in France; and he
must say that it was absolutely called for, and that he
was not sorry for it. This Bill was intended to stop the
progress and influence of " propagandism" in this
country; but it would be utterly inoperative for that
purpose, for every well-educated man was now a propa-
gandist of liberal opinions.—(Hear.) The Hon. Mem-
ber concluded by proposing that the Bill be read a third
time that day six months.
Mr. HUME seconded the motion. He deeply la-
mented that such a Bill had been brought forward by the
present Government—a Government from whose cha-
racter the country and the world had a right to expect
better things; and he regretted it the more, as it was a
Bill calculated to injure the character and interests of
this country. It was a measure to be deprecated in the
strongest manner, and for those reasons, and the reasons
he had already expressed on the subject, he should
second the motion that the Bill be read a third time this
day six months.
Lord DUDLEY STUART could not allow the Bill to
go to a third reading without again recording his
opinion against it. He did not see any necessity for
such a Bill at the present time. He was not aware of
any circumstances that could at all justify it; and he
considered it a Bill calculated to injure the cha-
racter of this country. It would affect the liberty
or interest of many thousands of foreigners located
in this country, and was in that respect a power
that ought not lightly to be vested in the bands
of any one man. He would refer the House to the
speech of a late noble and excellent Lord, Lord Holland,
against a former Bill of the kind now before the House.
That Noble Lord, from whose speeches he was fond of
quoting, in speaking of the Alien Bill, used these words
—" You contract the spirit of our law, you shake the
very foundations of British justice, when you entrust
such a power over the lives, liberty, and property of any
set of men on the principle that the power will not be
abused." He had given notice of two clauses, which he
proposed to add to the Bill.
Mr. MUNTZ had very great pleasure. in supporting
the amendment, and he only wished that it was in his
power to throw out the Bill wholly. He had mixed
much with foreigners, and he thought the alarms of the
Government were only worthy of an old woman.
Mr. EW ART could not allow the Bill to pass the
third reading without expressing his entire disapproba-
tion of its whole principle. Such a Bill showed a want
of confidence in the constitution of this country ; but if
the constitution was good for anything, it would, with-
out the aid of this Bill, resist and correct any attempts
which might be made by persons coming from other
countries to disturb the institutions of this.
Mr. FORSTER thought it unnecessary for him to
say one word in explanation of the votes he had already
given on this Bill. If he thought the Bill necessary for
the preservation of the peace of this country, he should
feel it his duty to support the measure ; but he consi-
dered it wholly unnecessary. He objected to it on the
ground that foreigners would be driven by it to think
most unkindly of us ; and he could not taut believe, with
respect to the circumstances said to call for it, that the
Government must have been deceived.
Sir H. VERNEY would ask Hon. Gentlemen if they
were prepared to allow foreigners to come into this
country, and interfere in designing and fomenting plots
to disturb the peace of the people? Hon. Gentlemen
had ridiculed the Government, as being influenced by
timidity and panic ; but he could assure those Hon,
Gentlemen that he knew of a country that had been lost
by panic. His opinion was, that it was the wisest and
justest course that the Government could have pursued,
and he should, under all the circumstances, support the
Bill.

Mr. G. DUNCAN had voted on twelve different divi-
sions out of seventeen in favour of this Bill, and he
was quite prepared at present to support the measure,
as her Majesty's Government said they required it.
Sir GEORGE GREY admitted that nothing could
be more fair than the manner in which Honourable
Members opposed this Bill. Honourable Members had
expressed themselves at a loss to know the grounds
on which her Majesty's Government could justify their
introduction of this Bill. lie did not wish to intro-
duce any names into the discussions on the Bill ; but
the circumstances that had come to his own knowledge
with reference to foreigners—not such foreigners as the
lion. Member (Mr. Muntz) had spoken of his acquaint-
ance with, hut foreigners who were here for the purpose
of interfering with and disturbing the institutions of this
country. He did not mean to say that this Bill was
brought forward in a dastardly spirit to protect the
people of this country, who were impressed with
the most loyal attachment to the constitution
of the country, and prepared to put any disturb-
ance down that might be attempted. But looking at
what was taking place in other countries and in Ireland,
he thought the Government were entitled to some credit
for the steps they had taken to secure the peace. The
Government thought that under the circumstances
of the present time, and looking at the pro-
pagandism, not, he would say, on the part of
foreigners in this country, but in other quarters,
that they were bound to look to the security of the Crown
and Government; and they now asked only for a Bill of
this kind, having for its exclusive object the preservation
of the peace and tranquillity of the country. He thought
that the objections to this Bill would be best answered
by its being known that the Government possessed the
power given by the Bill in its own hands. With respect
to the hospitality of this country, it was well known to
be at all times proverbial; but should any occasion arise,
then it was well that the Government should possess
the power of dealing with it—a power which it would
exercise, and which he should not shrink from exer-
cising. The Hon. Member for Birmingham (Mr.
Muntz) had spoken of foreigners; but he was quite sure
that it was not from such foreigners as he was in the habit
of associating with that the danger was to be appre-
hended; and it was against that class only from whom
danger was to be apprehended that the powers of this
Bill were intended to be exercised.
Mr. MILNER GIBSON said that those who believed
that the laws of the land were not sufficient to prevent
aliens from interfering with the constitution, had an ample
justification for supporting this Bill. For himself, he
thought that a foreigner should stand precisely upon the
same ground that an Englishman did. Had a foreigner
less need of the safeguard of our laws than an Eeglish-
man? He thought that, if anything, he should be treated
with greater consideration, but at least he should not be
placed in a worse condition.—(Rear.)
Mr. BROTHERTON said he was bound to give his
confidence to a Government who had hitherto voted for
every liberal measure. If they asked for this Bill, if
they said it was necessary, ho would give his vote of con-
fidence to the Government, who were looking to the
peace and welfare of the country.—(Hear.)
Mr. COBDEN said the speech of his Hon. Friend the
Member for Salford was not a speech in favour of the
Alien Bill, but of the Ministry. His Hon.. Friend had
given his reasons for the vote which he was about to
give, and had deprecated any misinterpretation of the
motives by which he was actuated ; but he was sure that
there was no Member of that House who had less reason
to be anxious on that score.—(Loud cheers.) The
speech of his Hon. Friend had, however, confirmed him
in an opinion which he had long entertained—that they
were prone to pass bad laws, not because they approved
of them, but because the peculiar state of parties induced
a large number on that side of the House to support the
measures of the Government, whether good or bad, be-
cause for fifteen years they had been in the habit of
voting with them.—(Hear, hear.) On the other side of
the House, olso, a large portion voted for the Govern-
ment, because they themselves were not prepared to
take the government on themselves—(Hear, hear)—
while another section on the same side supported the
Government, because they wished to prevent the latter
from coming into power.—(Hear.) This was a very un-
fortunate
responsibility state
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and treated questions on their own merits. He was
quite sure that, with respect to the great questions wit
which he had been identified—he alluded particularly to
the measure connected with free trade—not one would
have passed, had not its supporters resolved to treat
Whig and Tory the same. In all future questions in
which he might take an interest, he should continue
to regard them in the same light. The Alien Bill
had been so exhausted that it was unnecessary for him
to dwell upon it. There was, however, one point of
view in which it had not as yet been regarded. It ap-
peared to him, that whilst the Government were passing
alien Bills, and Bills for the protection of the Crown
and Government, it was a proof that they were taking
the wrong direction as to what was the best course for
satisfying the country and maintaining our institutions.
—(Hear, hear.) It seemed to him that the Government
had not profited by the examples set on the Continent,
where they had seen repression and coercion fail of their
purpose—(Hear, hear)—and Governments prostrate,
because they had not taken the wise course of conciliation
and concession. The Government was seen still follow-
ing the old course of coercion and repression,
but no
measures were propounded calculated to increase the
attachment of the people to the institutions of this
country.—(Hear, hear.) He would venture to say that
the country was at this moment looking most anxiously
—not for coercion, not for ganging Bills, not for Bills
for the protection of the people against aliens, but for
the announcement of remedial measures—(Hear)---ex"
petting to hear the Government prepared to put our
representative system in harmony with the spirit of the
age.—(Hear, hear.) They were not prepared to see the
w hole world in motion, and this country standing still,
or taking a retrograde movement.—(Hear, hear.) The
country was also looking to retrenchment and econornY,
and I will venture to say (continued the Hon. Member)
that, if you wish to maintain the monarchy againt re-
publican innovation you will do more towards the
accomplishment of your object by cutting away much of
that barbarous splendour which belonged to other times,
to the cost of the country, and the aggrandisement of the
aristocracy.—(Hear, hear.) You will do more to recon-
cile the people of this country to monarchical institutions
by removing some of these useless and mischievous SP.
pendages to royalty, than by preventing the people from
discussing republicanism. I entreat the Government
not to think there is a passive acquiescence in the men"
sures they are now passing in this House. I have 0",
plained why you have a majority. The feeling out of
doors is very differ ent.--(Hear, hear.) If you want 10
maintain your institutions do not pass coercion Bills, but
resort at once to remedial measures; reform yourselves!
and retrench your expenditure.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—The Hon. Member for Falmouth:
(Mr. Mowatt) complained that the Government bad,
at
the beginning of the session, introduced various tner
sures of coercion, and said that they were abandoning the
principles which they had formerly professed, and were
acting against the constitution of the country.as gene"
rally recognised by the people. It has certainly beets
our fate to have to introduce measures which were in'
tended for the purposes of repression. If such measures
were not necessary, we were not justified in introdueb4
them; if they were necessary, I think then we should
have been much to blame, had we refused to perfortO
that which was our duty to the well-affected and well-
disposed people of this country, from any fear of such
putations as the Hon. Gentleman has thrown out.--
(Hear, hear.) But I think there are some teats by
which the utility and necessity of such measures may
be tried. One test is, whether such measures as we hate
hitherto introduced, and of which the operation has been
in some degree seen, have been successful in diminishing
crime and the excitement to crime, whether they hal
been successful in allaying that state of disturbance 05
uneasiness which prevailed in one part of the United ICiag-
dom. And a second test is, whether those measures hale
operated with as little disturbance as it was possible to
give to the ordinary and usual enjoyment of the liberties
of the people of this country.—(Hear, hear.) In spoilt,:
ing of those measures, and applying these tests--fol
lowing the example of the Honourable Member for the
West Riding of Yorkshire—l do not mean to make and
distinction between W hig and Tory—(Hear, bear)'
because I believe that both parties, in these times,
whatever may have been the distinguishing characteris-
tics
which belonged to these parties in anterior periods
of our bistory, have been earnestly and equallY
to maintain those constitutional liberties so long the
boast of the inhabitants of these islands. Neriveb has
regard to the first measure introduced by LlStrrish Arms
been described as a coercive measure—
the
last autumn,
Bill—we found that there began to prevail,
the life
a dreadful frequency of crime in Ireland, making
of every individual unsafe, and either driving meu.fromws
anxioa;iies
the country, or exposing them, e,s they returned ho
from market or any other ordinary business, to be way-
laid and assassinated from behind:the hedges; in short,
redlieing the country to such a state, that every one who
_
was a possessor of property, or bad anything to tw,
with its management, even down to the small farmer,
was made to feel that ho could not safely inhabit the
country.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, we introduced a Bill.
which I do not think interfered with the ordinary eU
ployment of the people of Ireland, which was not open
to the objection that attached to the various Bills that
have been introduced with the same object at other
times—that of confounding the innocent with the guiltY;
for this Bill, while it left the innocent in the enjoyment
of all their privileges, took effectual pains to dinartu
those who were intent upon crime, and in th:
redow, enut
cAhe
enapddvr have
habit of committing crime. I am happy to skeia
great
hhmraeeutaputtehnometpellhoea.afs.
nt
eglar
eic
mfichoneaudsnit whichbtnhseaclt
in tni
into
ttoroleBcst4ehhi7eov:vectdohhnne
odsnwi
condition
noTnetb?-r
of crimes amounted to 5,2.09, in April, 1843, they 0111
amounted to 1,196. Homicides, which in April, 18e71.,'
were twenty-four, were in April, 1848, only nine. -"I
crime of firing at persons had diminished from nineteett
in April, 1847, to three in April, 1848. The er,i°lo
of demand or robbery of arms had diminished ir°o(
67 in April, 1847, to 12 in April, 1848 ; the crime
bearing arms from 16 in April, 1847, to 7 in Aril iasd
In the same way several other crimes have dienli"lahreed
very greatly : and even in the last month, as coooPhee
with the preceding, the diminution in the total Memo)
of crimes has been from 1,429 to I,l96.—(Hear, hetes()
I certainly should not omit to mention that in ho
circuits, those of King's County and Roscorolo°,°;34s.
offences against the person are reported in April' ` the
Therefore, whatever language may be used againt
Government for having introduced the Bill wbicui,
carried through this House before Christmas, it la
great satisfaction to me to have been instrument:, inpassing an Act, owing to the consequences of "'hie eetl
a great measure, there has been secured greater Iwo
to life, and men are enabled to carry on their °cell?' was
with safety in that country, free from the appreheljget,
of continual and barbarous murders.—(Cheers.) ster
sir, we introduced very lately a measure for the grew:,
security of the Crown and Government of this con° Iv
The main features of that measure were features °i:‘,13101511
gation—mitigation of the law of treason as it prev'''oold
stood. But we did that to which I think no one e twit
well object, seeing that if a measure in reference so oaf
crime was necessary for England, it was no less neceesoetr
for Ireland; and if it were proper that we in this;' that
try should be subject to such a law, it was no less 'toot,
the Irish should be subject to the same law.--( verf
hear.) Though that Act has been in operation but ea has
short time, its effect, its successful effect, in Ireland bet
been very visible.—(Cheers.) Every one will retoelthe
that, six weeks ago, it was impossible to read ea °03016'
papers from Ireland without seeing that men were great
ing a great bravado of their courage; wiews -thel
emphasis, and with great demonstration of Waa;ioo
were about to do, they declared it was their intent-rooPs'
make war against her Majesty and her Majesty's "„etrl%
and to sever Ireland from its allegiance to this a°-,eies;
and they spared no kind of invective, not oiil)' 'pie 0'
the Crown and Government, but against the Plied,
this country.—(Cheers.) It has appeared lately, 1 clef,
that those persons, although they spoke in ti_h,l9o, and
spoke so very much because they were in Da° t
actually under the security and protection of thaetioa,
Government which they professed their deter JO,
to overthrow and anuihilate.—(Cheers.) Abdeesterr,
happen that when on one occasion the coratu'ot e
her Majesty's troops had not forces immediatelY of the
disposal, in order to protect the persons of s°Pieseere to
worst of these would-be traitors—those persons.estYC
danger, not from her Majesty's troops and her 01 fed
police, but they required the assistance of the° cense'
troops and police in order to save them front tur sehice
;
quences of those harangues and those writings' ne other
they had so freely indulged in Dublin and selnit ,
hoogo
places.—(Cheers and laughter.) But, Sir, 11,g0s 0
those very persons were so willing, a few weeks 001 10
submit to the penalties of high treason, and so !retie° _
declare that they must either put down Lord CLaetr oaf
or that Lord Clarendon must put down them, Woo Old",
has been entirely changed.—(Cheers.) it,ine.euni
most mild and mitigated treason—the most .."I„re
water sedition—(Laughter)—so weak a In'%-ny he,
treason, insubordination, and rebellion, that it ra,..ci
become quite fiat to those whose appetites diet for_
viously been tickled by the highly flavoured cursoos.l
merly prepared and administered by those Phi regsr
(Great laughter.) Therefore I say, witeli Off,
to that Act, which met with so 133U' ulleP-•
sition in this House, that it has been Yertwgiii
for its purpose, and has had the effect of eitirdehgerlt
great measure this very inflammatory and twat
language. At the same time, I venture to asae heti i
has not in the least degree diminished or Orspeet
proper liberty of discussion in Ireland with reeotiee
to
any measure of the Governme(Hear.) / the night
say that any one who really wishes to discuss _ yo.ig
sures of the Government—whatever faults ire yogi:,
wish to find with them, or whatever epithets,' is Allele
wish to apply to the conduct of the Government this Ao
as much at liberty to do so as he was before be toebe
passed. He must keep within certain litnits,;
not use seditious language. Such was the '‘,st. the 00e,
land befere this Act passed; such is the law,_`;ill n
now.—(Hear, hear.) Then we come to tn., eertsPo
before the House, to the effects of which ray Silo
cannot speak very confidently; but certainly_ _toet_et,
Hon. Friend near me (Sir G. Grey) bus eflc
reason to think that it will have a ee" 9,0 eaft
I wish to disclaim its being directed againstnation- tei
ticular Government or any particular
__a into
opie
hear.) It is quite untrue that it is
st theere°'
against the French Government or even
to t"e re'
respect ot° 'a
of France.—(Hear, hear.) With reeso t
have an the
vernment of France, lam sure we , Pro'
a admire if
collect with the strongest feelings
conl °' Pro'
no one
,f the Go'
a moment of great peril, when
Irish
visional be the fate next day of the members
of the frio
visional Government, one of the members
s.O tee awls
vernment, Mons. Lamartine, held langvue4
quest;_;„).
deputies, who, to say the least, for a o
purpose, bad gone to the French It
cap to the "sueetil
laneuaee which, while it exposed hint A wort 00
e e • terror an • ai hieh
any ruffian who wished to carry
to hi° e it
into this country, was
.both honourable
toyim as a minister ou'ae,eer etts•
and praiseworthy at wha6! r
showed that he reall had at heart,
0„
might be to himself, the maintenance w

~. ~
:~~~a

tions between these two countries—(Cheers)—whose
t
dticard and whose quarrels can never take place wltno
„ud
the greatest calamities to Europe and mankind.—(Loud
cheers.) I think, however, after Is hat has happened in
different countries of the continent, after the rapidt sue
e-
cession of revolutions which we have seen, and wiltth
uncertainty that at present prevails, it is right—it ' s wise
to take precautions against occurrences that may happen.
. I
a
sincerely trust they may not happen. I sincerely trus tt0
all
Property, who wish to destroy all order, to put anen d
of
theli
Property, and to ground the future condition
world upon some dream of philanthropy, perhaps. but
more likely upon some political plan of plunder—(Loud
cheers)—l trust that those persons may never be able to
succeed either in France, in Germany, or in any otherevis
country, and that we may not have to dread the l
which might result from the presence of these emissaries.the
amongst us.—(Cheers.) Still, I do think that, ineau.
present state of Europe, it is wise to take some precau-
tions tions against the occurrence of such a thing.—(Bear,
feel
hear.) lam sure I shall be highly gratified— shah.'
the greatest satisfaction—and I have no doubtltheawhoolalet
House will concur in that feeling, when we can
measures
of it is no longer necessary to bring forward any
will be
ef restriction; that our course for the
Only the consideration of measures of relief, measures
our
tenf,re
of improvement.—(Hear hear.) And it is notsn
of
this
duty to bring forward any further measure
kkind.—(Loud applause.) We feel, as a Government,
hn
that it is but an- irksome and painful task to have to
forward such measures.—(Hear, hear.) At the
!ame time, the
peace of the country is committed to us.
The business of administration from day to day, in the
• present state of the world, is a most responsible task—
(Hear, hear)—and so long as we feel it necessary to
bring forward such measures as these, we shall do it.
bThis is the last we shall have to introduce.—(Cheers.)
e the ordinary operation of the ordinary laws may now
t,' committed the preservation of the peace of the
fi'd IsseanutrY..---(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for the
it. •, est Riding of Yorkshire has pointed out the course
~,, which he thinks the Government ought to take in order
~ !n... conciliate the affection of the people of this country.
has
;Z.. with regard to some of the measures to which he
Alluded we shall hare occasion to speak when such mea-
sures are brought forward by the
Montrose (Mr.
gouge, For my own
Hume) and other Members of this
Hon. Member for
part, I cannot believe that the re-
prsentation of the people in this country is in such a
%ate as the Hon. Member for the West Riding seems to
Laine it to be. My belief is that the votes of this
youe, since it met in November last—putting out of
Ight
question whether it is properly formed,
whthettilethere ought to be such a number of small
e;....ti.
tbio_rou.ghs returning Members, whether the represeuta-
Tee nave been elected in the' best manner—leaving all
hit.: these been
to be debated on a future day, I say I
sit. believe that the votes of this House—of the majority of
a • - this Howe_
es state f . aVe neither been owing to any peculiar
0 parties., nor have they unfaithfully represented
the opinions
—(Applause.) Nor
majority of the people of this country.
ducoon, to the Nor do I think that they 100
taking away
c• - (Mr. Cobden \
Hon. Gentleman
.k to the re-
ef what the
' belongie to ' °ails " the barbarous pomp of the Crown,
of
royalty; g past times," to diminishing the appendages
the I do not believe that this is the way in which
geaerarfernktent or this House would conciliate the
Li" I mysejf neat
of the people of this country.—(Hear.)
d-'
be this
ethoroughly and strongly attached to the institutions of
a tiro ountry.--(ilear.) I do not know that there ever was
mente when I perceived such strong evidence of attach-
th.., tie the throne of this country.—(Cheers.) I know
„,...: the conduct of the illustrious person who now cccu-
Vovva that throne, that the example given by the
life, of this country in every relation of domestic
84011 and in the discharge of those more important and
eucehltal duties which attach to her august position,e is
~.
(eh:: every one of right principle must arev
ai: rew s)—and I believe that that conduct meets with thethe
, • • ard which it ought to have in the affections of
kel peopie.s...
(Loud cheers.) I do not believe that that which
4L
w'silt!ecessary for the maintenance of the royal office,
'se
,theekh I admit is quite unnecessary for the comfort or
' ... uaepines f h rself,:but that which is
eeces s o the Sovereign e
d dignity of the
,n, say for the due maintenance an .
'—' "'ea, is at all begrudged by the people of this
country.---(Cheers.) I believe that they wish those in-
ratitutioo3 to be maintained. I do not think that any
14nges which we might propose which would shake or
itanair the institutions of this country would meet with
that
aPprobatiou of the people.—(Hear, hear.) I believe
`oat we Should be acting in a manner contrary to their
Wishes if we were to embark in a sea of speculation,
setting everything afloat, and making it doubtful what
halffuture constitution was to be.—(Hear, hear.) I
"; whatever may have been the necessity for the
aiolent changes that have taken place in foreign coun-
tries, that all classes in this country, from the highest
to the lowest, see the advantage of a system of well regu-
ated libert • and are convinced that order and peace
tend to the welfare of the working classes, as well as to
the advantage ofall classes of this country.—
, other .
(Loud cheers ) lam convinced that the example of the
gs of hlessin .peace and order is not lost upon the people
of this try —(Hear, hear.) They
country.—(Hear, . have too much
good sense, too much ion re ec ,11 t" to believe in many of
the idle stories that are put about.—(Hear.) Whatever
Proper retrenchments we can make, let us make them—
(hear, hear)—they are due to the state of our finances;
they are due to the state of suffering in which many of
oar people are placed.—(Hear, hear.) Let every kind
of economy that can be safely practised be practised.—
(hear, hear.) Let every amendment of taxation that
tan be well carried into effect be carried into effect.—
t(hear, hear.) But let us not imagine that by shaking
tIY of the great pillars of the state, or disturbing the
Quails upon which the constitution of this country rests,
i,
s we shall either be doing good to the country, or that
attieall even gain the immediate and vile purpose of
K a little popular applause at the expense of all
tact is valuable and endeared to the nation.—(Cheers.)
thMr. BRIGHT said it was a mere assumption to say
erne the Arras Bill had been operative in putting down
more
in Ireland; the special commission was infinitely
itth', instrumental for that purpose.—(Hear, hear.) As
Zrde Crown and Government Security Bill, the Noble
chuckled more than he had any right to do. Had
Y ef these measures succeeded in arresting the spread
al the
the is rtPeal feeling in Ireland? Far from it. Even
ti,,, rotestaiats were now protesting against the legisla-
it coal tin i°ll. He was in favour of this ueion, but thought
thod only be based on the will and acquiescence of
shoul)ied°Ple in both countries.—(Hear, hear.) But why
!epbssdE
y England have had this more strenuous measure
ttear.'," to it, if it was only needed in Ireland?—(Hear,
t ihi), With regard to the Alien Bill he had not heard
rhap!decargurnent in its favour. All they heard in the
deucen` an areement was that they must have confi-
ree 111 her
ht w Majesty's
Ithieh °old not justify them in passing a measure
of el. would take away the liberty of the people
It la cella -
I.,eitt ) ty tr) as well as that of foreigners.—(Hear,
aqe. Had th•
h pourable IS measure been proposed by the Right
.e was i_ Baronet the Member for Tamworth, when
V:it raisturoc!ffiee, the Noble Lord, if he (Mr. Bright) was
vlaborate '±en, would have delivered one of his most
410 n and
rilod able speeches in defence of the constitu-
ti,artned begnts of the people.—(Hear.) People were
~..'Y of be
_e_,anse there was more than a common quan-
: Said that and mustachios seen in the streets; and it
, kus„
__, D. certain individual, now in this country,
had de'eluther foreign countriestoo hot to hold him,
try 41.11 there were
in.
1111/ iYWIth who were a number of persons this
tikellis.-e ue
~..1z his duties in Paris made him ac-
e.sto g" -"los not certain that they were not more
residence leo) d •
than f °f certain • culties in consequence of the
„_
,h. rout that illustrious individuals among them
ut,!ll, tons. Lo:l_l,Pierons who merely held republican
is_°er lough ""
t for b Wtls the least likely city in the world
pelasithdreeetion or toe Persons who might wish to raise
than r. No in ngage in the
completerctil business of
h tO 431011 NV d hid' h
eee„ suppose
t,_ as more p an ci is
teisin,s for the "at a Bill of this nature was
noa. cry-- (lieu. "c security and peace of this
thtte:ter, which • hear.) There were two things,
belie/t,i_wcald . it was likely to do. One was,
etebicean he Wished should prevail of the security and
countr, would ere°
attllat.ry--(llear, hear)—and the other,
the
rla y 4 beii.„ , e in the minds of the people of this
Icsin II at tbr, lti the pusillanimity and ignorance of
i.. atetcci
.y nead of its affairs, who ought to be best
-r _"11 their Public m, and who ought to be courageous
keriel:etuled to _i_eo,nduct.—(llear, hear.) The Noble
day ~. Th„,l,4tlue.a up spirit since the battle of Li-
Isort4„,tha'hattle u
of (sfApril was a great day, but the
did 4,7,." right in Limerick was a greater. The Noble
40 fu:' WlSh to d 84YIng that the people of this country
of tail experience eaPerienestroy the institutions of the country,
ex,,_ la country did Proved them to be good. The people
ofeie,Oae that was 4 not complain of the Crown, or of any
whaAt comfort botoeeessary tor the maintenance not only
fill) they corn 1. of its honour and dignity.—(Hear.) toed • p limed of was this, hot, Intl that the Crown con-
$e de r •
lie hs, e people to gee in handing over the taxes drawn
ash 61'14 not the e assist the hangers on of the Crown.
the it , Noble
Lord before him then, but he would
tact there
d whether h •uat there °f the Crown 0 e thought it necessary, for
establishmentsshould be co r the dignity of the empire,
hounds, w,ai, as that of the with the Court such
dent of h - that
this mastership of the buck-
t e United ' country m '
.
,riesHear, • heaStates
cost
thatore than the I rest-
A rand Falconer? aec).---ta4cd that country.—(ls ud
`_eat content with sue bu." the r,„ ' nf the Hereditary
chancellor of the Exeh useless
appendages
dof this country
sudget in a session? Exchequer could on ages while the
naintenance tend to the better' hear getN3l:l)neewith one
Ind to the
greater strength r securit‘,
ep
_.
eld their
'moire? The Noble Lord spolr cote"paeLt_tehaa their
fFovvii
11°.11.1e 'as representing the peopi(e)l the u
majorit • the
,ut if they did, they were not the * Perhaps
the inthat.
,t,i,e habit of coming in contact willeopiewbotil he Zadsli;
kn. Right Hon. Baronet the Me (Ironical cheersn)
°e for
,71 a majority of 90 or 100 in 1846; but b Ta
art ori ~..._ Inworth
„a . many occasions
.when there existedt well knew
14onvour of the Government, it was decide!' inajority
,_ our
the people. And the Noble Lord wd aliorritY
tototehcirtinued to pursue his present course :eta- find,
leble L Government would die of majorities. Policy'
es. ill
htthdedord seemed to have no vision but one that V e
f(toatio bY
the two lobbies of that House. All his
'l7 sell n was derived from Mr. Tufnell and Lord INf..
etsp---t his r He was sorry to see the Noble Lord
,‘, ais present course, and to find him in strict alliance
i'i‘a,
~ party that Bail i always opposed him heretofore.
lemur
not believe that t
he old could not changewas changed, for the
his skin;
but the Noble Lord
alb anged•—(Hear h •
-nee w id , ear.) He believed that such an
6dne ou estrange from him theaffections fill e°f the peopleand, and con-
-4.7 the unpitied ' before long, end iu the down-
''''aialied • downfall—Of a Government which he
Sr a-, w tnight last for years.
Itih hs,, bee said that
tha f *"4 been pro of all the novel theories
Mutt:- the lion- ounded of late, the most strange was
Nal uted the dreadful Member who had just sat down, who
Ai
iti.
~.. outrages in
ptio • 104 attributed Ireland to spasmodic
In j.t.Q... the change %Web had taken
end to the raealSrac6 iribiek had been

passed by the Government. The most beneficial re-
sults had followed from the late Bill, in patting (flown
the mischievous agitation in that country. It was noto-
rious that there were persons in Paris whose business
was to get up revolutioLs, and that many of them had
come over to this country. The Hon. Gentleman had
taunted the Noble Lord with seeking the support of his
side of the House. but it should be recollected that cir-
cumstances existed which induced persons on both sides
of the House to unite in protecting the institutions of
the country, to which the people of the country were,
unalterably attached.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
Fur the third reading.....
Against it
Majority —ll7

The Bill then passed.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
On the motion for going into Committee upon this
Bill,
Colonel SIBTHORP said he hoped the Bill would be
reprinted, in consequence of the extensive alteration
which he understood was made in it.
Mr. J. STUART, in reference to what had fallen
from him on a previous occasion, begged to state that he
was in error in attributing the authorship of a pamphlet
from which he quoted to Mr. Chadwick. I❑ anything
he said OR that occasion he did not mean to speak dis-
respectfully of that gentleman.
Mr. FREWEN understood that malignant fever
existed in the neighbourhood of the House, and that
Westminster School was broken up in consequence
This fever was attributed to the Dean of Westminster's.
conveying some composition into the sewer by way of
improvement and preventing infection.—(Laughter.)
If sanitary improvements, such as were contemplated
under this Bill, were persevered in, the doctors would
soon make their fortunes.
After a few words from Sir C. BURRELL, the House
went into Committee.
Lord MORPETH said that on a former occasion, in
reply to the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire, he stated
that he was not prepared to assent to the suggestions
proposed by that Hon. Gentleman. He had since
favoured him with a statement of the alterations he
wished to make, and as he recognised on all sides of the
House an unaffected sympathy with the objects of the
Bill, and a wish to carry some practical measure into
effect—(Hear)—and as the improvements suggested by
the Hon. Member would effect a considerable improve-
ment and advance on the present state of the law,
and if not likely to be so iromediately beneficial as the
measure, as proposed by the Government, would yet lay
the foundation for future improvement, her Majesty's
Government, on duly considering the amendments,
thought it expedient to give their acquiescence to them
as far as their general effect was concerned.—(Hear.)
Being most desirous to effect some practical legislation
on this subject, he was a hundredfold more pleased at
accomplishing this object than if, by a positive adhe-
rence to the Bill as originally proposed, it was likely to
be defeated.—(Hear, hear.) The alterations he proposed
to make in the Bill were these, that when one-tenth (not
50 as it stood in the Bill) of the rated inhabitants of any
corporate city, town, or place, with ascertained and defi-
nite boundaries made application, inquiry should then
take place in the manner prescribed by the Bill; that, if
in the course of that inquiry it was found expedient to
add any new districts to the town or place, inquiry shOuld
take place in the same way; that when it was not pro-
posed to include any new districts, or to interfere with
any local Act now existing, the general board might
proceed as in the Bill to submit a report which might be
applied to the district by order in council ; but that
when new districts were included, or local Acts inter-
fered with, the general board were in that case to frame
a provisional order not to be applied to the district till
the sanction of an Act of Parliament was obtained ; not
an Act of Parliament 'such as was required for private
Bills, which would occasion great expense, but a public
Act. There were other alterations with respect to offi-
cers, but those he mentioned were the main alterations
in the Bill.
Mr. HENLEY thanked the Noble Lord for accepting
the suggestions he had made.
After a few words from Mr. T. EGERTON and the At-
TORNEY-GENEUAL,
Colonel SIBTHORP moved that the chairman report
progress, and ask leave to sit again.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL hoped the Honour-
able and Gallant Gentleman would not persevere in this
amendment.
Mr. MUNTZ asked whether the rate-payers were to
have the power of electing the local boards ?
Lord MORPETH replied most certainly.
Mr. HUDSON wished to have the Bill reprinted with
the amendments proposed or adopted by Government,
so that the House and the country might know how the
matter now stood.
Viscount MORPETH said he had endeavoured to
explai❑ the Bill in its new form.
Lord G. BENTINCK supported the proposition for
having the Bill reprinted, before the House proceeded to
discuss it in its remodelled shape.
Colonel SIBTHORP insisted upon his amendment.
Mr. SLANEY said that if the working classes knew
the manner in which a measure so vital to their inte-
rests was thus impeded in the House, it would tend
much to diminish their respect for the House.
Lord G. BENTINCK would, at all events, call upon
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government to state,
simply and clearly, how the Bill now stood.
Sir R. INGLIS called upon the House to proceed
with the Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said they only asked the Committee
to go on with the Bill. The new clauses would be printed
for the consideration of the House.—(Lord G. Bentinck,
" Expiain them.") Ile thought it would be quite wrong
to enter into explanations, and thereby serve those who
were desirous to create delay.
Lord G. BENTINCK denied that he wanted to create
delay. The Noble Lord did not appear to understand
his own Bill. There were in it 144 clauses, and they
now only required explanation of one of them, and even
that they could not obtain. Was there anything unrea-
sonable in asking for a delay until the explanation was
given ?

- Sir E. N. BUXTON was sure the Noble Lord would
be acting up to the fdeling of the House, if he proceeded
without delay.
The CHAIRMAN then put the 2d clause. Some con-
versation ensued upon points of detail, after which the
clause was agreed to.
Clause 3, " Act to be applied, &c.. by orders in
council," was struck out of the Bill.
Clause 4 being proposed,
Lord MORPETH moved that in lieu of the proposed
Board of Commissioners the President of the Board of
Trade and two others, at her Majesty's pleasure, be
nominated to be Commissioners under this Bill.
The Earl of LINCOLN suggested that the fourth
and fifth clauses should be postponed.
Lord MORPETH looked upon these clauses as inte-
gral portions of the Bill, and did not see how it was
possible to postpone them.
The Earl of LINCOLN said that he and other Hon.
Members were of opinion that the clauses in question
were objectionable, and he, in particular, objected to
the appointment of an independent and new board. Ile
should therefore move that clause 4 be postponed, and
if this was opposed by the Noble Lord he would divido
the Committee on his motion.
Sir R. INGLIS, in reference to some observations
which had fallen from Mr. Hudson, on the question of
postponing the 4th clause, said—No one, Sir, can pay
more respect to the aristocracy of birth, the aristocracy
of talent, cr the aristocracy of character than I do ; but
I hope I shall never pay any respect to the aristocracy
of wealth ; and because any Member of this House
may be fifty times or five hundred times as rich as I
may be—
Mr. HUDSON (interrupting)—l never said anything
about that—
Sir R. INGLIS—I will never on that account allow
him undisputed by me to assume to have fifty or five
hundred times the influence.—(Loud cheers.) I never
willingly offended any man—(Hear, hear)—but I must
be allowed to remind the Hon. Member for Sunder-
land that he shall not be the man who shall
instruct me as to what part I shall take in this house,
when I shall be silent or when I shall speak.,
—(Much cheering.) I have endeavoured to call the at-'
tention of the House to the duty of passing some mea-
sure of sanitary reform, and I protested against delay—
a system of delay, as it appeared to see, injurious. For
that reason I rose an hour ago, and should not have
taken another opportunity of addressing the House, but
for that which I must consider the unprovoked attack
made upon me by the Hon. Member for Sunderland.—
(Hear, hear,) lam actuated by no to that Hon.
Member. I did not provoke this discussion, but I am
ready to meet his attack.
Mr. HUDSON, who rose amidst cries of " Spoke,'
said—l have every respect fur the Hon. Member for
Oxford, but I did not think it fair, when my Noble
Friend behind me asked a question of the Noble Lord
opposite, that the Hon. Member should get up and
attack me.—(" No," end' Question."). I do not know
what the Hon. Member means by talking about money.—
(, oh, oh.") I beg to say—[The Hon. Member attempted
to proceed, but in vain, in consequence of the interrup-
tions by which he was met—but concluded by apologis-
ing to the House for any warmth he had been betrayed
into.]
Lord J. RUSSELL—If the Noble Lord thought it
better that the clause should be postponed he had no ob-
jection, it being, however, understood how they were to
proceed afterwards. Without a central authority he did
not think they could proceed with the Bill--(Hear,
hear)—and he hoped the Noble Lord would not object
to go on with clause 6, on the understanding that the
Secretary of State, or some authority, should be made
the centre of authority afterwards.
Mr. NEWDEG ATE thought time would be saved by
reprinting the Bill before going further with it.
Mr. STUART could see no reason for postponing
these clauses if the principle was not to be altered.
Lord LINCOLN thought it better to postpone all the
clauses relating to the central Eduard—that would be up
to clause 11.
After some conversation,
Colonel SIBTHORP moved that the Chairman report
cProonaginreistst,,,r
udpoenxpitr.essed his determination to divide the
L CommuteSSELL consented to the adjournment of
day) with claus.e-e.ro`
the
p I
os-ng to commence to-morrow (this
en le
)°
(-)1
thatN
ceived that its 1130ard was to be permanent) de•
districts w
ae
rnsd Ssitalt
should
when decidedbe
confinedt
lbojseect
districts
tt. He con-
tion of
conversation,
formed its powers should cease.
Alter a ilesultorsyaicdoi rhiectsf forma-
formed were
Mr. BRIGHT
conduct of the Noble Lord (Morpeth)
the House that he had no
objectionable clause.
hweisiathtoougfht the tone and
ought to satisfy
Mr. CARDWELL had no doubt of°trlicee
wish in that respect but ho
Possibl© would be left in thepha td
at
Nupobolne Litoardn'ys
aa much power as
n 5 of the local boards.