The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF-COMMONS, August 8.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
POOR-LAW UNION DISTRICTS SCHOOL BILL.

On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that he had hoped some
explanation would have been given of the Bill. It was
proposed to provide for the compulsory education of
the children of the indigent poor of the country in a
manner most objectionable. He particularly objected to
the mode in which the expense was to be paid—namely,
out of the poor-rate. The objections urged against the
Bill were so freely stated in a petition from Ashton, that
he felt he could not do better than enumerate them. It
stated that parochial burdens would be increased, which
were now greater than the ratepayers were in a condi-
tion to pay. That the children in the workhouses were
now better educated than the children of many work-
men, mechanics, and others, who contributed to the
rates. That educating the children until they reached the
age of :6 was too long a period, and would engender
habits of indolence which would unfit them for labour ;
that it would lead to the compulsory separation of parents
from their children, or, if they were tlead, from their pro-
per guardians; that the Poor-law Cdtionissieners, which
were now in bad odour would, if the measure were passed,
become still more disliked; that it would lead, each dis-
trict being 15 miles in area, to a system et cen-
tralization and of Government patronage; would
establish a national system of education, and interfere
with religious freedom, II is groat objection to
the Bill was that the expense of the schools would be
paid out of the poor-rates. This was the third time
this session that an attempt had been made to fasten
great and improper charges upon the poor rates. First,
the new system of repairing the highways; second, the
Act with respect to vagrancy, which they had just been
dealing with; and third, the present measure, which was
designed to charge upon the poor-rate many expenses
which were altogether foreign to the purpose for which
they were collected. By the Act of 1844 the Poor-law
Commissioners were empowered, "at their will and
pleasure," to establish district schools ; but since that
time a serious change had taken place in the condition
of those who paid the rates—he alluded to the cul-
tivators of the soil. The I,egislature had been
pleased to establish the principle that there should be
' free trade in all things produced by the earth, in con-
sequence of which those engaged in the cultivation of
the soil had had their resources materially crippled.
This being the case, he asked the Government on what
principle of justice they could ask these parties to con-
sent to an 'increase of the poor-rates? It appeared
from the Bill that the guardians of the poor would
have no power of controlling the expenditure in respect
of their schools. Looking at the late period of the ses-
sion, and the dissatisfaction which such a measure as this
would cause, he felt it his duty to oppose it.
Mr. CHARLES BULLED assured the House
that he should not at this late period of the
session have brought forward the Bill if he had thought
that it would press unduly upon any portion of the
community. He was prepared to show that the mea-
sure would not infringe upon the liberty of any part of
her Majesty's subjects; nay, more, he was prepared to
contend that it had been brought forward to diminish
the burdens of the rate-payers, by a wise and econo-
mical expenditure in connexion with these schools.--
(Hear, hear.) No power was to be taken in the Bill
which would empower the Poor-law Commissioners
to force anything upon the ratepayers without their
consent. lie declared he'rhad no sympathy in the
popular notion that they could over-educate the children
of the poor. Children were placed in workhouses under
most distressing circumstances, and if they did not
educate them, the evil would not only recoil
upon the children, but upon the whole country.—
(Hear, hear.) At present, under the existing poor-law,
there was a schoolmaster and schoolmistress in all the
workhouses, who were maintained at considerable ex-
pense, but it was defrayed by a vote of Parliament,
and so would the expense of maintaining the school-
masters and schoolmistresses in these district schools.
The present number of children in workhouse union
schools was at the present moment in England '51,237,
while out of that number there was only 5,402 who were
children of able-bodied paupers. All that he asked was
that the House should remove the limitations which
prevented those who would unite from being united with
these schools, and by the limitations that at present
existed they were prevented from the formation of dis-
tricts which otherwise could be easily formed. He did
not see why parties should not be at liberty to erect a
building apart, for children from the workhouse,
if parties were willing to pay the expense of them.
He believed that nothing was more prejudicial to female
children than bringing them up with the women in the
workhouse. The Right Hon. Gentleman, after adverting
to cases showing the excellent effect of the adoption of
such a course, and stating that he preferred in-
dustrial to elementary education for paupers,
stated that this Bill, if passed, would give
him no power except that of forming districts, and after
hat the whole power would go to the ratepayers. He
believed that if the unions were allowed to exercise

their own free will they would form themselves into
districts and build workhouses, to which they would
send their children and bring them up in proper indus-
trial habits.

Sir W. JOLLIFFE, while he admitted the import-
ance of the measure, and the kindly feelings that had
induced the Right Hon. Gentleman to introduce it, could
not but think the second week in August a mast inop
portune period to discuss a measure of such importance,
and he thought the Right lion. G( ntleman, in postpon-
ing the measure to another session, would exercise a
sound descretion.

Mr. HENLEY did not believe that the present Bill
would remedy the evils it was inten led to put an end
to. The Bight Hon. Gentleman had said that the Bill
was perfectly voluntary. He denied it. They had no
instruction at all as to the number of guardians, and
ander this Bill a district might be formed, and guardians
appointed that would tax ratepayers to an unlimited
extent. Such a Bill he objected to at the present
moment and period of the session. He thought the House
ought to have had more explanation on the subject of the
Bill from the Right Hon. Gentleman than they had
hitherto had. He thought the more the measure was
iouked at the more necessity there was fur postponing it
tilt another session.

Viscount EBRINGTON supported the Bill.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved an amendment that
the Committee on this Bill be postponed until this day
three months.

Mr. C. BULLER hoped that the House would allow
the all to go into Committee, and if there were any
objectionable provisions in it they might then be
amended.

-After a brief discussion, the debate was adjourned
until Thursday.
RENEWABLE LEASEHOLD CONVERSION
(IRELAND) BILL.
On the order of the day fur going into Committee on
this Bill being read,

Sir W. SOMERVILLE proposed that the committal
of the B►ll he postponed until Thursday next.
Mr. LAW trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet would
defer the Bill until next session, as it was a measure of
very great importance, and could not, in common de-
cency, be discussed unless in a full House.
The committal of the Bill was ultimately postponed
until Thursday next, when it will be taken as the first
order of the day.
WESTMINSTER IMPROVEMENT BILL.
This Bill was read a second time.
ADVOWSONS IN THE COUNTIES OF WAR-
WICK AND STAFFORD.

The Exchange of Advowsons in the Counties of War-
wick and Stafford Bill went through Committee, and
was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
_ _ DUBLIN POLICE BILL.

The Dublin Police Bill as ordered to be committed
on Thursday next.

. _
The House then adjourned until Five o'clock.

The House resumed at Five o'clock.

Lord G. BENTINCK presented a petition from the
shipowners of North Shields against the Custom-house
regulations of that port.
BOARD OF AUDIT.

Dr. BO%VRING postponed the two following notices
relative to ,the Board of Audit till next session:—
" Select Committee to inquire into the constitution and
efficiency of the Board of Audit." "To call attention
to, the returns from the Shannon Navigation Commis-
sion, showing that no proper accounts have been fur-
nished to the Audit Office for nearly ten years, and that
130,0001. of the public money remains unaccounted for at
the present moment."
The notices were accordingly discharged.
BRITISH FISHERIES.

Mr. HUME moved for a return showing in detail the
total annual expense, from the year 1840 to the year
1847 inclusive, of the Board of British Fisheries, in-
cluding the salaries, allowances, incidental expenses,
superannuations, or pensions of all persons employed by
or connected with that establishment; the cost and ex-
penses of any steam or sailing vessels belonging to or
employed by it; the nature and object of the duties
performed by it; and the fund or funds out of which its
expenses are defrayed (in continuance of Parliamentary
Paper, No. 529, Session 1839).—Agreed to.
SCOTCH CHURCH.
Mr. HUME moved an address for a return of the total
number of seats in each of the churches in the city of
Edinburgh, whose ministers are paid by the annuity-
tax; stating the number of seats let and not let, in each
Of the last five years ; distinguishing between the
seatholders who reside within the royalty of the city,
and those who reside in other parishes; also distinguish-
ing seatholders who are actually rated for the annuity-
tax, and stating the amount received for seat rent in
each of these churches in each year, and how appro-
priated.—Agreed to.
SASINES AND REVERSIONS.
Mr. HUME moved for a return of the establishment
of the office of Keeper of Sasines and Reversions in
Scotland in the years 1846 and 1847, stating the names,
office, and amount of salary of every person em•
ployed, and from what sources paid. And, ac-
count of the amount received for fees in the
office of Keeper of Sasines and Reversions in
each of the yearslB46 and 1847, with a list of the several
fees charged, and the rate of each lee, and how the same
have ben appropriated in
PUBLeach ofNS
these years greed to.
ICA.

Mr. TATTON EGERTON presented a petition from
Westmoreland pray ir,g the Howe to pass a Bill to pre-
vent the sale of spirituous liquors in public-houses be-
tween the hours of eleven on Saturday night and six
o'clock on Sunday morning.
TRADE AND NAVIGATION.
Mr. LABOUGHERE, in laying a number of returns
of the monthly accounts relating to trade and navigation
before the House, said, in order to obviate all complaint
of any undue preference having been shown by the
Government, he had made arrangements by which those
returns would be printed and distributed in the usual
way among the Members of the Hones.