The Sun.
London, England, 1841-03-06 00:00:00

amounted to 14,0001. There was a sum of 100/. now
reserved for fees, but these were merely small office fees
the imposition of which was rendered necessary to pre-
vent idle inquires being made and unnecessary trouble
great increase in this charge was
owing given.totlie A
alterations in the Post-office. In his own
being
grtment this increase amounted to to 1,0001., and
in the Adjutant-General's to 335/. The increase in
his own office was very great, for none of the letters to
the War-office being prepaid, of course they were all
charged double.—( Hear, heir, and laughter.) In the
other expenses of his department the charges would not
be greater this year than they had been last ; he ought
at the same time, however, to state that he was not
sure that if that estimate had been produced for the
first time that night ho should not have proposed a
small increase in the charges of his own establish-
ment, and that he should propose such an increase
next year. A correspondence had been for some
time going on between the War-office and the Trea-
sury for the purpose of endeavouring to introduce
into the War-office a system of book-keeping
analagous to that in use at the Admiralty. By the
introduction of the Itsl.an system of bookkeeping by
double entry at the War-office, the Sscretary-at-War
would be enabled each year to exhibit to the House a
regular balance-sheet.—(Hear, hear.) He did not
think, however, that that change could be effected
without the employment of additional clerks in the
War office, and therefore it would be necessary for
him next year to propose an increase in that depart-
ment. He should not ask for any vote this year for the
Royal Military College, the receipts from that institu-
tion being sufficient for its support, which was also the
case last year. The next item was the Royal Military
Asylum. He had last year promised the lion. Mem-
ber for Kilkenny that he would do his utmost to reduce
the expenses of that establishment. Since that time
the Governor of the College at Southampton had died,
and he had thought it his duty to abolish that estab-
lishment, and to transfer the children to Chelsea. Last.
year the vote for the Royal Military Asylum
had been 16,712/. ; this year it would only be 15,148/.,
so that there was a saving effected under this
heed of 1,5641. Since he was on the subject of the
Royal Military Asylum, he would advert to in matter
connected with that establishment to which the atten-
tention of the House had last year been drawn by an
IlJn. Gentleman, whom he did not see in his place ; he
meant the difficulty under which it was all 'ged that
the children of Protestant Dissenters and Catholics
were placed in attending their religious worship. He
had drawn the attention of the authorities of the Asy-
lum to that subject, and he was happy to say that a
plaa bad been devised which completely obviated all
objections and was calculated to satisfy persons of every
religious persuasion, and he must take that opportunity
of acknowledging the valuable assistance he had re-
ceived from the Bishop of London, who had devoted
considerable attention to the subject, and had drawn up
a resolution modifying the rule in such a manner as to
remove the scruples of all, and yet to preserve the dis-
cipline of the Asylum, as connected with the Established
Church, so that now Catholics and Dissenters could
conscientiously receive the benefits of an institution
which was, as it ought to be, open to the children
of all alike, who had shed their blood in el, fence of
their country. The next item was the volunteer
corps ; the Government last year had, fortunately,
had no occasion for calling on that corps to render as-
sistance to the civil power. Last year, thevote for the
volunteer corps had amounted to 92,933/. This year,
it was only 88,266/., showing a diminution of 10,0001.
The total effective estimate last year had amounted to
3,853,000/. ; and this year it amounted to 3,846,000/.,
showing an increase of 9,000/. He now came to the
non-effective estimate, in which Gentlemen generally
expected to find some reduction. Under the first head,
rewards for distinguished service, the estimate would
not be found to differ very materially from the one of
last year. In Jamaica, the Government had had ap-
pointments, amounting to 368/., placed at their disposal
during the last year. Of that sum 2211. had been ap-
plied to the awarding of pensions for distinguished ser-
vices. Altogether 9861. had been placed at the dis-
posal of her Majesty for rewarding distinguished midi.
tale, services. In the garrison offices in the colonies
last year, a sum of 15,8151. had been voted ; this
year he should propose a sum of 15,8381. He would
mention that under this head was included the
salary of the General Quartermaster at Malta,
amounting to 136/. 171. 6d. That item had formerly ap-
peared in the Staff Estimates, but as that officer had really
no duty to perform, it Lad been thought better to remove
it into the present estimate. The charge for the pay
of retired general officers had, as might have been ex-
pected, gone on regularly decreasing. Last year the
number of these officers amounted to 198, and the
charge was 92,000/. This year the number amounted
to 183, and the charge was 85,000/. ; showing a saving
of 7,000/. The next charge was for officers and vete-
rans retired on full pay. Thorn was an increase under
this head in consequence of the recommendations of
the Naval and Military Commisssion. It had before
been considered expedient that no additions should take
place under this head until the whole expense should
have been reduced to 38,000/. ; but the Naval and
Military Commission had recommended that the vete-
ran corps should be immediately filled up, but that no
further appointments to them should take place until
the expense had been reduced to 38,000/. Last year
the estimates had been 57,300/. ; this year he should
propose a vote for. 67,5004 This would go on regu-
larly decreasing until it was reduced to 38,000/. ;
and it was never afterwards to exceed that sum. In the
article of half-pay a saving had been effected, although
20 Lieutienant-Colonels had received :00/. a year
each, in addition:to their half-pay. The vote last year
had been for 505,500/.—this year it was 497,5001. For
pensions for wounds last year the vote was 142,9841.—
this year it was 141,048/. For pensions for widows
last year the vote was 127,3001, and this year it was
124,0001., showing a decrease of 3501. For out pen-
sioners for Chelsea Hospital ho had last year proposed
a vote of 3,300/. ; he should this year propose
to increase that vote to 10,000/., making 13,300/.
It had been for some time past in the
contemplation of the Government to make a change in
the manner of paying the Chelsea pensioners, which
would, he trusted, be of great advantage to the pen-
sioners themselves, and to the well-being of society and
of the country. Several communications had taken place
with the Chelsea Board, and he believed the plan would
very soon be adjusted, and as in that case funds would
be wanted to set it in motion, he felt justified in asking
an additional grant for that purpose, but he did not be-
lieve that it would lead to any permanent addition to the
public charges. The vote for superannuation amounted
last year to 42,000/., this year it would amount to 43,0001.
This increase was caused by the regular course of things,
and one half of it bad Loan owing to the return of Sir
Howard Douglas to this country, as during the time
that that Gallant Officer was Governor of the lonian
Islands he did not receive his superannuation. In
bringing forward these estimates he trusted he had done
so as briefly and as succinctly as possible.—( Hear,
hear, hear.) He had purposely abet tined from all
exciting topics, for he believed that genil-man
on both sides the House, in discussing the Army Esti-
mates, were actuated only by a desire to place the esta-
blishments of the kingdom on that footing which might
most conduce to the well-being of the country.
Mr. HUME would merely draw the attention of the
House to the pledges of peace and economy which the
present Government had given on taking office, and
yet, notwithstanding these pledges the army was in-
creased by 43,000 men to what it was in 1822. He would
submit, that if economy was one of the pledges given
by the Government, it was a pledge that had not been
kept. He said this with no hostile feeling to them,
only ho protested against imposing on the country a war
estal,lishment in time of peace. The necessity for
this had been occasioned by their misgovernment of
Canada, and by their folly in going to fight windmills
in Syria. That had been followed by the alienation of
the French nation, and the consequent endangerment
of the peso° of Europe. He regarded that alienation
as ominous in the highest degree to the future peace of
Europe, for as long as the French and English nation
agreed the peace of Europe could not be endangered.
They might have reduced their establishment to the
lowest possible ebb consistent with a case of emer-
gency, and they might have kept it upon that scale.
It remained, therefore, to be seen whether the Govern-
ment were justified in fallowing the policy they had
adopted. He regretted to see that Englishmen, borne
down as they were by taxation, ‘tere obliged to keep
up se large a military establishment. In the last
five years, the army, navy, and ordnance had in-
creased three millions and a half; and he believed their
establishments this year would amount to four millions
and a half more than it did in 1836. This was a mat-
terd
wlmvaai misery-
eo
rnsf
yuoseriouswti isemttrhaepneoit
day
f ita
,tcolenfi
no.rtiesooctnekt
rloti
sehn
ought
ncupgogoui notr
rtetr
poorer
aae
ll these
iilleceessot,ef
botethnchi
asi
tnu
hlgsi c
the fact was that under the present
e present system the industry
of the country was taxed, and the man of fortune felt it
not. The country would not be satisfied until a property
tax was itupoEel, by a
which the wealthy would 1 •
pelled to coettibuteas large a proportion
e
rtionof tl)ieicroinnl•
come towards the burthens of the country as the poor.
He regrt t'ed to see the military establishments an
amuch
increased ; he had hoped that before this time matters
would have been settled between this country and
America, but every thing seemed to have given
way
to
the Syrian question, and in consequence of this they
had been unable to withdraet the large force they had in
America. He was sorry to see that matters did not
up a large military estab-
look very peaceably between that country and England,
but he believed that bad resulted from the policy
adopted in this country, which would have the effect of
taht,etchoeuenetpryentsoe koefefpour
.or five millions a-year.
Irslf GthEe hHaodnl.isAteineemdbwerithfogrreatatten-
loi,blisl ilgnirienntigt
Kilkenny,
proportion to its difficulties in re-
spectcountry was to be in p
tion to th.el!pAeeßeph
'relations, must be considerably
and he agreed with him that if the expenditure of the
to its foreign
that there had been an in-
crease of
.
He
pe n ngton
and his Right lion, Fricnd left office in but the
exdriteugrreett since the Duke of wLni

House had to consider whether the expenditure was
necessary or not. He was sorry to differ from the
Hon. Member for Kilkenny with respect to: the Army
Estimates, but ho thought those estimates this year
did not go far enough, because the pressure
upon the army in the colonies had been so
very great, that if relief was not gis en, they
would not be able to carry on any relief at all.
Considering the situation in which the troops were
placed in the Colonies, he was in hopes of seeing a
larger estimate for the purpose of relieving them. Now
what was the state of the army? Wby, including the
troops on passage, the number of battalions abroad was
84, at home 19 ; and how, therefore, was it possible
for 19 battalions at home to afford relief for 84 batta-
lions abroad ? That, however, was not all, for out of
the 19 battalions at home, eight of them had only re-
turned from the Colonies in 1840 ; and the consequence
was that out of the 19 only 11 were in a mili-
tary state of organisation ? Was that a state
of things in which the army ought to be
placed? And, added to this, out of the 19
battalions there was not one that had been at home
four years. The battalion that had been just sent out,
had been tea years in Jamaica, ten years in Meturitius,
and twenty years in India, and now it was on its return
to India again, after being in this country only about
three years. Ought such a state of things to exist in
the British army ? were the regiments of the line to be
condemned to almost perpetual banishment? In fact,
the state of the army was such at present, that unless
some remedy was applied, a severe blow would be in-
flicted upon the discipline of the army. He did not
state this to encourage the Government to in-
creased expenditure, but he stated it for the
purpose of showing the defects of the system.
They must, if they wished to have the army effective,
establish a system by which the troops could return
to this country, after they had had a sufficient quantity
of service abroad. In 1837, when the rebellion broke
out in Canada, the peace establishment there was
nine battalions, and ten more were very properly sent
out upon that occasion. In India the establishment
was 20 battalions, and now it was 23 battalions. In
the Mediterranean there was an augmentation of two
battalions, so that there was an excess of 13 battalions
rendered necessary, in consequence of the foreign rela-
tions of this country ; and if they went to any of the
colonies, they would find it impossible to make any
alteration in their establishments. (Hear, hear.)
If they looked to the state of our affairs in India it was im•
possible to say that there could he any reduction ; and,
considering the hostile feelings which prevailed on the
frontiers of the United States, so far from a reduction,
there should, if the Government meant to act with vigour,
be an addition to the force in Canada. He did not wish
to imitate the conduct of the Members of Congress in
making angry speeches.—( Hear, hear.) It was tho less
necessary to do so, because the claims of this country were
supported by our Minister, Mr. Fox, in the most manly
and vigorous manter.—(Hear.) But he thought all par-
ties must admit that it would be highly imprudent under
present circumstance; to reduce our force in that country.
—( Hear, hear.) It was not possible, with the present
pi ice, that the reliefs should be properly carried on. For
the last four years the army had been so situated as to
render that impossible. What was the number abroad and
the number at home ? The number abroad this year—
(ho spoke, of course, of the infantry of the line, for by
them it was that the pressure was felt, and not by the
cavalry, including the troops on their passage)—;vas
60,000 ; the number at home was 26,400. The estimate
only gave an increase of nine men ; but, far all
the purposes of Great Britain and the Colonies,
there was a diminutim of 1,420 men. He was convinced
that if the Noble Lord were to come forward and propose
a supplemental vote of 5,000 men, no doubt that proposal
would give great satisfaction to the army. He trusted the
observations which, as a military man, he had thought it
his duty to make, would induce the Noble Lord to take
some early step towards remedying the evil of which he
bad complained.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the objections made to this
estimate by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny aad his Hon.
Friend were certainly of a very different nature; one com-
plaining that it was too small, and the other that it was
unnecessarily large. He did not agree with either of those
objections. The Hon. Member for Kilkenny complained
of the increase since 1830, and he asked why it had been
made. Without entering into any defence of the foreign
policy of this country, he (Lord John Russell) thought
the state of our foreign relation;, and especially the state of
Canada, was a sufficient justification of the increase. The
Hon. Member for Kilkenny had rather a short way of de-
ciding these questions. He said that they had engaged
in a war in Canada because they did not choose to
yield the demands of those who were disaffected ;
that they required an increase, because they were,
through their own misconduct, on bad terms with Ame-
rica and France. The Hon. Gentleman always presumed
thet the Government of his own country must be in the
wrong—namely, as compared with the French Govern-
ment, the United States Government, or with Messrs,.
Papincau and Mackenzie.—( Hear, hear.) He (Lord J.
Russell) could not accede to this short way of disposing
of the question. On a proper occasion he would be
prepared to show that the Government had throughout
their transactions received the sanction of Parliament,
and were justiied therefore in asking for the increase.
The Hon. Gentleman had stated that there were now, in.
cluling the army, navy, and ordnance, 130,000 men
be-
longing to the regular forces of this country, which was
an increase above the estimate of 1822 of 43,000, and of
25,000 above that of 1830. With regard to the estimate
of 1830, he (Lord J. Russell) was not disposed to find
any fault with that estimate; it was suited to the circum-
stances of the country at. that time. The circumstances of
the country since that period, especially during the last
three or four years, had undergone a great change. Per-
sons were in the habit of saying that it was very extraor-
dinary that after 25 years of peace it should be thought
necessary to have such large establishments. His (Lord
John Russell's) observation, looking to the state of the
world, and to the establishments proposed in other
countries, was that that very long duration of peace was
the very circumstance which made men estimate too highly
and apprehend too little, the great and almost incalculable
evils of war.—(Hear, hoar.) Those who had seen war
were best able to estimate the invaluable blessings of
peace. After twenty-five years of peace it was far more
difficult to preserve peace than it was at the termination of
the'iwar.—( Hear, hear.) In a neighbouring country there
had been lately an immense increase of war establishments.
One item only, the construction of naval and military
works, amounted to twelve millions sterling, whilst the
speeches made at pubic meetings, and even in the.
Senate of the United States, called upon the Government
of this country to be ou the alert. He might safely rest
the proposed increase upon the state of our relations with
Foreign Powers. But the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
complained, chiefly on the ground of the unfrcquency of
relief, that the proposed increase was not large enough.
He (Lord J. Russell) could not be supposed to undervalue
the services of the leritish army. He believed there vas
no army in the world which made such exertions, not only
when they were accompanied by the splendid triumphs of
war and the glory of victory, but such continued, perse-
vering., and perpetual exertions in time of peace, to met it
the approbation of their Sovereign and their country, under-
going the fatigue of distant voyages, and suffering too
often from unhealthy climates and long absence from home.
But the country often required those sacrifice: and exer-
t'ons ; and in such cases they were made without the
least murmurirr,.—( Hear, hea,..) The number of men
employed for home and colonial service, in 1830, was
81,164; in 1841-42 it was 91,363, being an i :crew()
of 10,000 men.—( Hear.) Since the year 1830 extra-
ordinary services bad been performed by the army. Fr sm
seven to e;ght thousand men had been sent to Canada in
consequence of the disturl ances. It must be remembered
that the climate of Canada was by no means unhealthy.
It was impossible, as the Hon. Gentleman had said, to
reduce the force stationed at the Mauritius. An addi-
tional battalion had been seat to Bermuda and two addi-
tional regiments to the Me-literre.nean ; but lie trusted that
it would not be necessary to keep that additional force in
those station!. With respect t' India it should be re-
marked that the regiments which in the common course of
events would have been ordered to return home had not
been sent in consequence of the expedition to China.
The general establishment for India wee not altered, it
fstill consisted of twenty regiments of the line. He
believel there was no necessity for making an etc-
ration in the present cyst :m India. When there
were such demands as there had been of late, there
were, as the Hon. Gentleman said, a very small number
of regiments at home ; the majority were abroad. But
whilst there were six companies abroad, there were four
at home Land for six oflictrs abroad, four remained at
home. The proportion of men was 600 to 200, and of
effic,rs six to four. It was not true, thl!ref re, that the
whole regiment was abroad. If they wished to have a
more frequent relief, the bettc; plan would seem to be to
make the depots consi,t of a smaller number. They thus
would require a smaller number of regiments abroad, and
be able to give more frequent relief. Upon that question
his Noble Friend had proposed a plan wh ch was vi ry ably
drawn up, and upon which the Government cor.snhelthe
Commander-in-Chief, and requested the opinion which
Duke
the Commander-in-Chief obtained of the of
Welliegt m. The military reasons which w
Weree. ggton lediven by
ee llin
hair3du-t
onehim
of the
ad o adopt
consequencesthe system
wwhichar;
ot
ahte
such men as Lord Hill and the Duke
earance
ship in reality, and much great-r hardship op f
of r dief
infrequency
ments at home, and the frequency or
Canada, there was no
Upon the whole, with the exception ofd
therey recommended.ca
cing rgreat
with respect to the number of regiments abornoatdheantdroooprse.eoref
v ry peculiar or extraordinary demand upon
very great
this country. There always had
of any other country. But etre oft
wits,
de-
mand--a greater demand than there
and engaged
beenwho upon
te
qt I,,ure.ehhi
the isf
lc
tint demand and of these services
and ip
armies of ofhaodthearilcotuhnettriiueas,litwi,ehsen
°f
of our armies that they
disciplined
armies, it was the characteristic.
_hue
of
were as efficient in time r f peaccAs in
Too system adapted its Prussia and
tew years, and then
have tile men in active service for a
d something like a
allow them to :go home. That otl.er countries was to
body of militia, hut the discipline teas,
contrary,
incomplete. Their service was. on the
and he believed it
plineforme consequently, very
distin-
guished by its permanency and seven
would be found in the end the campaatig.n,
There was one other point, namely ilia
year, but that
thousand men which had been voted
acome
vote was nut on the ground solely of disturbances home,
f n service
but to relieve some of the regiments
mostlyatdivleanitnareoaussesyosftefimve.
h "number had been
and that was why no reduction
en in 1832 and
increased, for in 1830 it was 81,000
there was a rr
1833 it was 88,000 and 89.000, and then -
I 1839 it amounted
duetion for some years to 80,000. - '
proposed. Of late years the number certainly certainly had been
there had been
no great increase for the last three
It would be seen from that that
years, and he trusted,
t 901,8380,00.0 0 , in 1840 it rya= 92,000, and in 1841-2 it was
therefore, the Committee would agree to the vote of his
Right Hon. Friend*

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MARCH 6, 1811

Sir ROBERT PEEL would certainly give his cordial
support to the proposition before the Committee, with a firm
conviction on his mind that the demand made by the Exe
cutive Government did not exceed the exigencies of their
foreign service. He should be exceedingly sorry if their
proceedings would form a pretext for any foreign powers
to increase their forces, and there might he some justice in
the remark of the Noble Lord, that the long duration of
peace did not necessarily indispose men to the recurrence
of war. The present generation were not practically
acquainted with the horrors of war, and therefore they
ware not so much indisposed to encounter its calamities
as those who had bad practical experience of its evils. He
thought that those Governments and countries who were
unnecessarily increasing their military force-, made a very
false estimate of the people whom they govcerned, if they
supposed that there were not other evils besides the actual
devastation of the country, which were the result of these
expensive and unnecessary armaments. That, he had no
doubt, would soon be felt by every Government in Europe,
and they would find that the enormous taxation by which the se
establishments were supported, would so fetter the indus-
try, and interfere with the tranquillity of these countries,
that it would result in something like that of actual colli-
sion with the people, and thereby convince them of the
necessity of preserving the relations of amity and peace.—
( Hear, hear.) Tire present state of their finances might
certainly he said to affect the vote they were called upon
to give, and no one could contemplate with more regret
than himself the growing deficiency in the revenue, which
within the last three years amounted to four and a half
millions. But that was no reason why they should not
take timely precautions, although it might be a good
ground for dispensing with superfluities The tuaratist. c
tory state of their finances could be no reason for neglect-
ing those proper precautions which would save them ten-
fold the expense hereafter.—(Hen-.) He saw nothing in
their present state, which would prevent them placing the
naval and military force of the country on a proper footing.
Ile certainly gave his vote with very imperfect means of
information, and he never knew a time when they had such
scanty information as to the real position in which the
country was p'rened. What knew they of the state of
their affairs in Central Asia? What did they know of their
prospects on the banks of the Indus? They knew not at
what instant they might be called on for an increased mili-
tary force in that quarter. With regard to the expedition
to China, they were in a state of utter ignorance and had no
means of forming a judgment as to tho result.—( Hear,
hear.) Again, with regard to the United States, there
was a strong impression that the state of their relations in
that quarter did not admit of their making any reduc-
tion of their military establishment. He had that impres-
sion, although he had no means of forming a correct judg-
ment. Notwithstanding all that, they had heen repeatedly in-
formed that every state and principality on the face of the
ea. th had given them the most unqualified assurances of
their desire to preserve their friendly relations with this
country ; and yet on the Continent they were raising their
military establishments to 400,000 and 500,000 men, and
neighbouring Powers were evoking their energies and re-
sources, to the detriment of commerce, industry, and
civilization. He trusted these Governments would learn
that they owed a responsibility to the permanent public
opinion of the country, which would enable them to resist
such a step. If they were now to be involved in a war,
they were going to be involved in it upon grounds that would
never terminate. It would lead to long and exhausting
mutual animosities, without any one intelligible object,
and he should be sorry there were any of the glories of war
attending such a struggle. He never knew a period in
the history of Europe when there was less assignable or
rational ground for hostilities than at present.--(Hear.)
He trusted that that power of public opinion which was so
inseparably connected with civilization and refinement,
would put down and overpower the hot and hasty
spirits who were so desirous of war.—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear.") He said that as an Englishman,
because if they were compelled to go to war, then Foreign
Powers would see that in this country there would be an
utter oblivion of all internal animosities and dissensions--
(Loud cheers)—and that ho (Sir R. Peel) could afford to
forget all the councils he had ever given for peace. They
would see that Englishmen would stand by their ancient
reputation, and prove to the world that the military name
and reputation of Great Britain remained as high as ever.
--(Loud cheers.) That England and Scotland, aye, and
Ireland too—( Loud cheer:)—those three great parts of
one United Kingdom—were as ever indomitable—that
their ancient prowess had not been lessened, and that they
were ready to vindicate the honour and glory of the British
name.—(Cheers.) So much for the general principles on
which he should support any increase, if it had been pro-
posed by her Majesty's Government. With respect to
the addition to the naval force which had been so wisely
made, he entirely approved of it, and little as.his confidence
was in their policy, he should, if the interests of the country
required it, be prepared to give his ready assent to
any vote for an increase of their present establishment.
He did hope that the prospects which had cast -a shade over
the general tranquillity would shortly vanish. Independently
of all these things, their duty towards the army should
prevent there pressing too hardly upon then. When he
heard that a regiment had been 20 years in India, and
only 10 years out of 60 at home, he confessed he could not
contempla'e such a state of, things without great regret.
It was a great evil to separate soldiers for so long a time
from their native country. It was of immense importance,
instead of sending them to the Colonies where they mixed
in a different state of society, to have them for a longer
period at home. He should hail such an arrangement with
great satisfaction. When he read the accounts of what
had recently occurred in the United States, after orders
hai been sent out for the liberation and protection of Mr.
M'Leod, and after the burning of the C.roline had been
openly avowed by the Government, and when he saw
what had since occurred there, while professing the utmost
horror of any interruption of their amicable relations, he
must say that he did not think it would be for the interest
of the country to adopt a dishonourable course by making
any unjust concessions.—(Cheers.) He hoped they would
never forget the claims which the inhabitants of the North
American Colonies had upon the mother country, and
while he deprecated a war with that country, still the
more the honour and the interests of the country were
involved, the higher must be their feelings of indigna-
tion against injustice, and their determination to stand by
the cause of their country, and insist that justice should be
done to it.—( Cheers.)
Lord HO WICK regretted exceedingly that he had
missed the early part of the discussion. In the sentiments
expressed by the Right Hon. Gentleman he fully concurred,
and he was convinced that by whatever power the general
peace was first broken, it would be compelled to submit to
public opinion.
.He trusted that the Government would
use their best exertions to promote the great commercial
interests of the country, as the best means of averting the
calamity of war which was at present impending ; but if
the country had no other alternative lett it, ho felt satis-
fied that that House would not hesitate to come forward
and, merging all minor and party differences, take such
stops as would best maintain the honour and independence
of the British name.—(Cheers.) With regard to the
length of service of the regiments abroad, he would re-
mind the House that in 1838 he had been authorised by the
Government, of which he then formed a part, to devise a
plan for relieving the pressure upon the:regiments abroad.
Since then three years had passed away, and he regretted
no steps had been taken to carry that plan into effect.
lie did not wish to go into details. He thought there
was inconvenience in discussing details of the number of
men rcqui ed in particular parts of our domiuions. Per-
haps he could hardly enter into that discussion without
availing himself of the information which be possessed,
from having held office recently in the department to
which the subject under discussion belonged. He would,
therefore, avoid all discussion on the matter. But this
plain, bread, and simple fact he would state. It
appeared on the face of a public journal, di voted to military
matters, that the number of battalions sent abroad com-
pared with the number at home, instead of augmenting,
sine the year 1838, had, on the contrary, been ci-
minished. He had been referring that afternoon to a
Journal which was devoted exclusively to matters cen-
nected with the two services, and he observed in that
Journal returns of the stations of the British army on the
Ist of March, and by that it appeared that only twenty
comple:e battalions were now abroad.
Sir H. HA RDlNGE—Nine:een.

Lord HO WICK—It was not of much consequence
which. In the year 1838 the number of battalions at
home were twenty-eight, and at no period did it fall
below twenty-five. That was a very serious alteration
with respect to the condition of the soldiers—an increase
amounting to near one-fifth of the regiments abroad as
compare ito what it was three years ago. With respect
to the 27th Regiment, so severe was the pressure of our
service, that that regiment, which returned from upwards
of ten years' service in Jamaica to this conntry in
April, 1837, must now be sent abroad for,
probably, twenty years to India. That was a
fact that must carry conviction with it to the
minds uf Hon. Members of the pressure of the sera
vice. His Noble Friond referred to the depot system. He
(Lord H.) would not then enter into that question. It
was one of some difficulty. Every gentleman who ever
considered the subject was of opinion that the system of
depots was essential from the nature of our service. Ho
(Lord H.) had proved so in spite of the high authority
which bad been brought against him, and ho was of opi-
nion that modifications might be made in that system which
would, without at all interfering with the objects of those
depots, increase the facilities of making reliefs. If they
adhered to the present system of depots all he (Lord H.)
could ay was, tint the consequence of it would be that
it would keep up the pressure of the troops, but if they did
not take that mode EOM other one must be arrived at for
relieving the troops. He thought that they ought
deliberately to weigh all the reasons for and against
the improvement of the depot system, and if they
were of opinion that the system ought to remain un-
altered, it was their duty to provide some other
means of relief. His Noble Friend (Lord John Rus-
sell) was aware that these were his opinions, and that
he did not bring forward in that place opinions which he
had not advocated in a place of higher authority. His
Noble Friend was aware that he (Lurd Howick) agreed
to the army estimates in 1839, on condition that sonic
mode would be adopted of relieving the pressure on the
British a-my. Various measures were in agitation for
that purpose. He did not say they were agreed to, but
eel tsinly those estimates would never have been moved
were it not that he was under the impression that the pres-
sure of Ow British army would Le relieved. He entirely
concurred with the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth in
the qieions he expressed of the miserable short- ighted
economy evinced in the management of that branch (the
infantry) of the British army. No circumstance, be was
convinced, more than another tended to render the service of
the British army at the present moment so unpopular
as it wan, than the fact that the relations of the men who
enlisted in regiments of the line, under the present system
in the army, considered that they would never aga'n be-
hold them. It was that feeling, existing in the minds of
the relations and friends of those classes which supplied
our army with recruits, that rendered our infantry service
unpopular, notwithstanding the great pains taken of lat
years to do what was possible to ienprove the condition of
our troops. He would nut enter further into that question
at the present moment. He would only state his great
disappointment at finding the army estimates brought far-
ward three years after the time when those measures of