The Sun.
London, England, 1846-01-27 00:00:00

CONIMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

Mr. CARDWELL moved that. the whole House re-
solve itself into a Committee of Supply.
Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE moved that a grant of
50,0001. be made for the purposes of carrying out public
works in Ireland. _ _

Sir H. W. BARRON said that such a sum would be
for the purpose but as a drop of water was to the ocean.
Sir T. FREMANTLE said that that sum would not
be expended unless a similar sum was levied to meet
and further the same objects.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to ask the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet whether they would take the usual securities for
the repayment or sums raised for the purposes of
public works in Ireland.
Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE Observed that the
present sum was to be an absolute grant, but that there
were other sums which would be lent upon loan. The
Irish loans had always been very punctually paid.
The Government were willing to afford every_facility
for the carrying out of these works.
Colon(' SIBTHORP said he did not wish things to
be done in the dark. How was this money to be applied?
Was it to be given for the furtheranc. of that job of all
jobs, the Shannon Harbour ? He should like to know
whether the 50,000/. now proposed was to be in addi-
tion to the sum which was already granted.
Sir T.FREMANTLE replied that the sum now pro-
posed was in addition to what was already granted. The
former grants were nearly exhausted, and it became neces-
sary to vote the present amount to carry the works on. It was
necessary, however, for Honourable Members not to in-
clude sums which were loans with those which were
grants.

Mr. HUME wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet at
the head of the 'Government whether it was to be re-
cognised as a principle that the public money was to be
given away for the employ mentof the people? The question
at present for their consideration was, tor what purpose
the incnfy was to be applied ? He doubted whether any
good had ever resulted from any former grants which
had been voted for a similar purpose. He decidedly
protested, therefore, against any money being given
for the employment of the poor, when other
causes were allowed to exist which prevented that
employment. In England and Scotland every man was
employed, and there was no necessity for votes of public
money; but in Ireland this was not the case. He could
attribute such a state of things to nothing else but
bad legislation and misgovernment. lie really feared
that by granting the money without inquiry into
the causes which led to the want of employment, they
would be lending themselves to perpetuate that state of
things which arose out of their misgovernment. Why
did :they not make grants to Stockport, Paisley, and
other places. He did not know how the former grants
had been applied, and he protested against the
Imperial' Parliament voting this money with-
out inquiring into the causes of the want
of employment. He protested, therefore, against- the
grant on that ground ; for he considered it would be
atfirining a pernicious principle, unless it was thought
desirable on every °melon of a scarcity, of employment

it
to vote away a sum oc.' money for the district where
existed. ••
Sir ROBERT PEEL begged to assure the Hon. MI.
tier that any information uPon.the subject. he 1)0d °eel),
tionedavhich it was in his power to give, sheuld br! fr ehe
granted. With regard .to the grant'. in (Fest iftra.
would al beg to &..st-Ire the Hon. Member that h
jesty's Governmrnt were. resolved to. take_ care all .t ".
111'9 should not be expended otherwise than in the r'e
motion of public, works ; and *when
the
in
came, every inforuation 44.;--to.. the manner v.
which -this sum should be expended would be freely gil., be
—(Hear.) But with reference 'to the past, it weal"
remembered that former Governments had the discre,
tionary power to make grants of this nature,
while thfeo);
did not consider themselves liable to be called upona- disclosure of the manner in which it had been.! f
pended. For several years past it had been the hablt,fs_
Government to vote sums of money for public suet
and surely the present was the last year in which sticu
proposition ought to be Opposed.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME said he would not have made the
servations that had just fallen from him, but for the IT:,
that he had in his possession returns with regelLo
the manner in which public grants to Ireland had er'en_
applied, that were sufficient to remove all coned
from his mind. as to the future management of taa;
expenditure —(Hear, hear.) He remembered "74.0,
distress was so great in Ireland that a grant from üb,
vernment was given, and a large sum besides was suet
scribed by the British public, a very large portion
r.)
which went to pay rents to landlords.—(hear' 1113s-
.However, after the assurances of the Right Hon'
ronet, he would not oppose the motion.
Sir IL W. BARRON said he only regretted that;thbi:
sum was so small.—(A. laugh.) Gentlemen 11:1:ge
tita
laugh, . but he' would ask' wits this
thal
when millions of people were starving ill id
country, to be haggling about some paltry fifty thotisas
pounds ?—(Hear, hear.) And when he stood up, la
he then to be met by a laugh.—(Hear, hear.) He ?/...in
say that this was a paltry sum, when it was borne
mind the awful state of Ireland at present, where h°,o
sands and hundreds of thousands had at that women; of
other resource or dependence than the Governieey'.,
the country, and the charity of their neighbourstioa
(Hear, hear.) He stated this under the solemn eoll'ie'ri-
.of the fact, and as the result of his own personal eaPe.,h,
!pee and inquiry in the counties he was connected 1/17;*
He was told.that the people of Ireland were
crTsidered, because such a step did not agreewith w
test
axioms of political economy. • He could only say;
it was bad economy
to haggle about such a paltry 700
and he for one only objected to the smallness of it' „is•
hoped at some future time to hear her Majesty's
the
ter come down to the. House and demand Os; op
people of Ireland should receive more effectual

sistance. tot
Mr. WILLIAMS said that he was - sorry eat
he had appeared to his friend unwilling to ..,na
any assistance to the people of Ireland, as he vvsl;'es'
always would be, the last man to hinder any such dire
sure. Ile was as anxious as any man to sees test
tress in. Ireland provided against, but he thougtu oes
there were means of avoiding it by introducing sone
measure that would afford the same security to life By
property in Ireland as there was in this kingdont. for
that means there would be a greater inducemenrtt of
capitalists to make an outlay of money in that Pte of
the empire. He knew that Ireland was as cgs-
end
improvement as any .part of the United Kingdom' „ to
afforded as good opportunities of securing reutlef,
-account, and he hoped that means would be taken -or
troduce that peace and confidence which was 60 es
tiaLoy ll necessary to its welfare. ith
rd CLEMENTS begged leave to find faulov,
some expressions that had fallen from the
very
Gentleman, who appeared to forget, or to pay her
little attention to facts. He forgot that a vast eu,i,sl
of Irish tended proprietors were living in Engiitiljol;
I
paying income-tax on revenues derived from reies;
and as that fact could not be disputed, could he a— to
to a small portion of the tax being return's' no
the people of Ireland? There was little fr not
reason to suppose that such money would
iresl•
be applied to the end for which it wasbssWt. lea
Nothing on the part of her Majesty's Governine% to
to the supposition that any portion of the grent two'
be laid out on ornamental works. Vast sums fig the
had already been laid out on works of that kind; 01'0
grant now sought for was to be appliel to works 'N
were to be reproductive. 1,0 had
Dr. BOWRING said that the Hon. Member wes„r•°
just sat down did not seem to understand the obr;iltecl
of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Williams), who only `sari
the
some security that the money would be applied
purposes for which it was sought. It was neee' rite
that some guarantee should be given respecting id)
proper application of the grant. He (Dr. 13°w1.„101'
would offer -his cordial support to any measure Fafas
lated to improve the condition of Ireland, only lielth
his duty to know that it was properly applied. to
this explanation he would not offer any itneedinieo
the grant.
RAILWAY BUSINESS FOR THE SESSI°I4.es
Sir ROBERT PEEL, rose and said,—Sir, I the
on behalf of her Majesty's Government to sts`Tiosi
course which they recommend in relation to the rs''
business of the session. Her Majesty's Goverllicit
have felt it their duty to avail. themselves of the ettritio
opportunity of calling the attention of the House tutor
various railway Bills that are "out to be 000
mitted to it, in order to take its °Pi°
fbeto
as to the best mode of disposing of --40
The attention of her Majesty's Government has ""of
called to this subject ; they have seen the necessity P,
making arrangements to meet it ; and I, as their orgae
have considered the present time the proper one of
ing the attention of the House to it. In ordinal 51ry
cumstances it might not have been so urgently e ecesso
to call your attention so prominently to the questiell'ol
considering the great interests, I have felt it ply Cpl
to bring this matter under your considers
too
accordingly, I now make this application to the liwujoo
for the appointment of a Committee in order to ee
into and report on the best course of disposing of thunder
way business of the session. The Government,: dto
ordinary circumstances, might have been prel?' brit'
arrange-the carrying out of the business in questirtseir
under the existing circumstances, they felt it to wsie'tte(';
duty to ask the House to appoint a Select Corn-ssiste7
The Government have been making all the be
rho
inquiries, and they will be prepared to lay beforleor
Committee the information they have acquired+, oto
ing it to them to institute an inquiry, and to rePL rho
the course the House ought to pursue. 'sses'
importance of the interests involved will be made 00;01
by me calling the attention of the House to the nu": ee°
of Railway Bihs passed during the last two yesrs,edt,
the amount of capital these Bills were empower 044
raise. The number of Railway Bills passed in beo;
was 48, sanctioning the raising of a capital of altos
14,708,0001. In 1845—that is last year—tbe ing
agreed to one hundred and eighteen Railway Bills,,rotie.
powers to raise a capital of not less than fifty In", 100
It is generally understood that it requires three .7,r s
for the completion of a railroad. At least it is ns1)101
matter of experience that, for the formation of a r;s, gel
in this part of the United Kingdom, three years 11`i toV
nerally required for the completion of railways e'r est,
length. If that time be allowed to be COeirsii
we shall find that for the construction of the rat ore,
which have received the sanction of the Legisifeell
during the last three years it will be necessary
sum of upwards of 70,000,0001. sterling on the
of the country for the entire completion of these,"
ways ; that is to say, that in the year 1846 an 11-ni the
of 23,500,0001. will be required to be drawn fseo-essl'
capital of the country, which is employed in We f ,;
roil'
channels of commerce and trade for the completion °
ways within the year. In the year 1847, also, thterbe ciitt
be required the sum of 23,500,000/. sterling, wh'e,, tP"
be found in no other source that lam aware of -hap rho
which 1 have just stated. And in the year lte fort
sum of 18,000,0001. must be drawn from the
the same purpose. In making this calculation, the
course intend to except the railways which obtainecr.est;
Bills authorising their construction during the locni
and, therefore, something is to be deducted fr°10114;
amount, bnt including them, the compliment of eeP',;erilt'
quired for the completion of the rail wilys authorise"
last session, and the years 1843 and 1844 is not a 1e5000.1.0
than7o,ooo,ooo/. sterling. Now the sum of 23,5(A-to be
think, it will be allowed, is a very large sum •iPe
drawn from the ordinary course of its circulation
one year, and that so large a sum as this erlst;,tsger;
thus occupied without detriment to the general anv""rise
and, as it appears to me, without serious incensrell,f's
the interest of the country. The expenditure of tri'",
however, has been sanctioned by the Legislsturbleive
now turn to-the number of railway schemes 9,1'26
been deposited at the Board of Trade, and
seeking the sanction of Parliament in the course t:J 0
present session. I 'am aware that the 00' see
schemes requiring the sanction will be eaerl:
time before they can get into the
of execution. The number of English railwais 06;
that have been deposited at the Board of Trade, 1; See'
the number of Scotch railway Bills, which he nLi
deposited at the Board of Trade, is 121 ; and t--
hce
tber!'
ber of Bills for Irish railways, is 88 ; there are' el re
fore, no less than 815 Railway Bills, which,. "i.,srbie,
quire the consideration and the sanction se s!!"
meat. I -am aware that many of Wei rail;
opposing schemes for the same lines °aecti°6
way, and that Parliament will not give its ~90/ tbOr
to more than one. lam also aware that severs' secs
00_1/
Bills cannot possibly receive that sanction frffsers.„o
incapability of complying with the standing; ostsej,/
(Hear, hear.) The House will; therefore, ales '"eiersul
that the number of these Bills will be very coosll, tti°
reduced ; but yet it should be reinarketde pro.(
the plans deposited with the Board of Tr"
waits
posed the construction of no less than 20,6871 eft coeoli
new railway, and that the amount required for t 1000,000
pletion is upwards of the enormous sum of 3SO' filoo°b,
It is impossible that the application of such °llea Wit of
of capital to these undertakings can be nanctina°l33ricet'sot,
out ialicting injury on the trade and mope): ;00°03
the country.—(Elear, hear.) I think it most es
therefore, at the earliest period of the Sessionrineiplo
House of Commons should consider whet Peslatv, °fie
ought to guide them in railway legislation. objecticl,
one can feel more strongly than I do the Ooverie
which there are to the interference either of thela tie° e
e 1,
merit or the House to stop legitimate sPe
du *De soo
rail Way or any other undertakings ; ' for 00
spcet to the railways of this country,
afiplies'il'os
feel most favourably disposed towards the correte the
of British capital to them, rather than to
e to so
dertakings, SO calculated as they aterprise, op,
promotion of fair and legitimate e,ll the etbe
calculated as they are to promote rorn°te
venienee of the public, and to Pt.on tbeeor
general welfare of the people. The ques
whether there are good and sufficient reaso 0 eolat
fering at all with the progress of railWal.suPguide WI"
and if so what should be the priucißles

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