The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-14 00:00:00

IRgLAND.

Mr. B. OSBORNE said that as considerable anxiety
prevailed on the subject in Ireland, he wished to know
from the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secrowy of gtato
for Ireland what course was to b ourstu-d with regard
to the three Bills brought n by the Noble Lord the
late Secretary, Did the present Government intend to
bring the Bills forward in any shape, or did they intend
to introdne any of their own ?

Mr. L A BOUCHERE said, in reply to the question of
the Hon. Gentleman, he thought it would be more con-
venient if he delayed till Thursday next to :tate the
course which the Government proposed to take. All
he would say at present was, that he was engagr-d in a
careful consideration of the whole question, and he would
undertake to say that no benefit secured to the Irish people
by these Bills would be lost. On Thursday, li,wever,
he would state the course which the Government in-
tended to pursue
REGISTRATION OF MEDICAL OFFICERS.

Mr. WAHLEY wished to ask her Majesty's Govern-
ment whether they would consent to the passing and
enactment of a Bill during the present session provid-
ing for the registration of duly qualified members of the
medical profession?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not think there would be
sufficient time during the present session to consider fully
a measure of so much importance.
Mr. WAKLEY considered it a very small measure,
and would not long occupy tl.e attention of Ministers.
CAPTAIN WARNER'S INVENTION.

On the order of the day being read for going into a,.
Committee of Supply,
Lord INGESTRB rose, pursuant to the: notice
he had given. to e.:11 the attention of the House to
the subject of Captain Warner's recent inventions. He
proposed that a humble addre:s he presented to her
Majesty, praying that she would be graciously pleased
to give directions for the investteation of Captain War-
ner's inventions. He was sorry that this suhieet had re
ceived so little of the attention which it des,ried from
Parliament ; he felt corfident, however, that heron,
long that inattention would be at an end. Attacks had
upon former occasions, been made utein the veracity
his Gallant Friend; tho e avec:l(s had been utterly un
founded. He hop,al that this question might be con
sidered by her Majesty's Government, for he could
assure them that, however much disposed the)
might be to treat it lightly, he considered it one
of the most impertant subjects which could b.
brought under their notice. He wi-h• d. in th
first place. to correct a string impression which ha‘i
arisen out of an erroneous statement made in tha,
House. and he was sorry to see that the Right 11. m,
Baronet who made the assertion was not in h's
niece. The Right Hon. Baronet bad said, in
1842, that Captain Warner refused to mak:.
any cemiiaupic ition unless he hal the distinct
promise of 400.0001. In the correspondence which h,
had moved for in 1844, there hal been omitted by a
mistake a letter which he could produce to the Houst.
and in which he distinctly stated that he would leave
the question of remuneration to her Majesty's Go
vernment, provided he received a guarantee tlvit
he should not go without remuneration. There
had alan been a statement read that when the experiniew
was tried at Brighton several pilots said that there were
several ropes hanging over the side of the vessel.
leaving ample room for any deception. He had a corn
munication from a gentleman who had ascertained th.
truth of the statement, and he could show that the pilot-
as a body had denied the assertion, and had stated that
there were no ropes hanging overboard but the tow ropes.
Captain Warner had made many similar offers, and had
desired to be called before the Prime Minister or tne F.rst
Lord of the Admiralty, offering to explain his inventioi,
to them without any stipulation for a reward, but he had
very properly refused to explain it to any Commissioner..
who were not authorised to do more than make a
report upon the subject. He said, if any one would take
the trouble to look into the history. of this affair, he
would find that offer after offer had bees made by Cap-
tain Warner to the late Government, and
all had been rejected. The Noble Lord re-
ferred to the language of Sir George Murray on
one of these occasions, to show the over degree of caution
which they had taken, treating Captain Warner as
though he were an unprincipled person and a swindler.
He must admit that the Right Honourable Gentleman
(Sir Robert Peel) had always paid great attention
to him (Lord Ingestre) when he brought the matter
before the House, but he would never look into it him
self, referring him continually to the ordinary channels,
which channels he (Lord Ingestre) found as continual].)
shut against him. Ire might refer, he said, to the first
Commission on which the lion. Baronet the Member for
Liverpool (Sir H. Douglas) was, in evidence of what he
said. The two subjects of experiment were the invisible
shell and the long range. It was agreed, after a great
deal of correspondence, that the long range should be the
first subjected to experiment ; and an estimate of the
expense was made up, which fixed that 2,500/. was neces-
sary to carry out the experiment. But another course
of correspondence ensued, which ended in 500/. being
offered for the purpose. Of course Captain Warner re
pudiated the offer, which was but one-fifth of the sum he
had named first of all, as required for the experiment.
He could not characterise such conduct other than most

unjust and most unfair to Captain Warner, who had not
had fair play meted out to him. He then alluded to the
ship on which Captain Warner experimented at
Brighton, for the destruction of which by Captain War-
ner he (Lord Ingestre) gave the signal, and a minute
after ha did so, although he did not specify the exact
time he should do so. it was destroyed. He also read
papers to show that Captain Warner had been most un-
fairly and improperly dealt with. He could not think that
any thing could be done without the effect of the private
Committees being perfectly understood. He might al-
lude to the railway which was justified by the report of
the Hon. Sir R. Keats, who had been the great authority
on those points. He might also cite the opinion of
Lerd,Metbourne, whose motion stood for the 14th of May.
If these records were taken, there was not any doubt
that the claim under Sir Robert Peel was admitted. lie
would not allude to the dealings of Captain Warner, he-
couse he believed that great loss had been sustained by
that individual, and unfer these circumstances he
thought that there was sufficient ground for the principle
of which he had spoken. Such being the case, he (Load
In7estre) was naturally anxious to ascertain why this
principle should be entertained. On this ground, then,
he thought there ought to be an allowance, and a suffi-
cient allowance. The experiments made at Brighton
were quite satisfactory as to the complete success of
Captain Warner's invention. There was no connexion
whatever between the ship which was blown up and the
steamer
that towed it, much as had been said of this
matter at the time. He (Lord Ingestre) had looked at
the whole question as a naval officer for many
years, and he was firmly persuaded of the
truth and value of the invention. Much as it had been
sneered at and contemned, he must still persist in that
opinion. It was a remarkable fact that all great inven-
tions of this kind were met by ridicule. He need only
refer to the origin of gas, as a proof of the manner in
which important inventions were first received. Only a
few years ago, Dr. Lardner said that it was impossible
for steamers to cross the Atlantic, whereas now they
crossed that great sea almost every week. Then let
them look at railways ; mark the circumstances under
which they were first projected, and their great success
at the present day. When the first line was laid down
it was said railway trains would not much exceed the
speed of mail coaches without great danger ; but now
they were daily running at the rate of 25 and 30 miles
an hour, yet no explosions or accidents were the
result. When they were expending such large sums
on fortifications, they should pause ero they
rejected the due consideration of such a great
invention as the one under the consideration
of the House. With that invention he would engage
with only one ship, to blocade any harbour on the coast
of England, or attack arty fleet that might be brought
against him. They were a commercial people, and he
imploredthe Government to give the subject a dispas-
se!nafe consideration. He hail no interest whatever in
bringing the suhject under the consideration of the
House, beyond doing good to the country, and protecting
it against all chances of foreign danger. Though he
had occupied the House for a considerable time, he
could not sit down without reading a letter which he
had received from Captain Warner a few days ago.
(Ile Noble Lord then read the letter, dated July 2,
which was in eff et an expression of regret at the treat-
ment he had hitherto received, and expressing a deter-
mination to apply to the new Administration for their
assistance in the matter. It further entered into a vin-
dication of the course he had pursued in regard to the
remuneration he sought for the invention, and in respect
to his objection to the kind of arbitration proposed by
the Governmen-) He felt that ho had trespassed rather
too long upon the time and attention of the House, but
he trusted that the importance of tho subject would be
a sufficient excuse for his having done so ; and what-
ever might be the result of th 3 3i:.eu2sier, if it had the

object of directing attention to the correspondence whic'
he movel fur and obtained in 1844, and which he bad
succeeded in obtaining in the course of the presentee
;eon, he would be amply repaid fur his trouble.—(
heat%) All he wanted was a fair trial and lid
avour ; end with the view of bringing the matter more ,
mrnediately nnder the attention of the Noble Lord 14
the head of the Government, he begged leave to more
as ill amendment to the original motion, that an address
he presented to her Mejeaty, praying that she will, be
graciously plensed to give directions for the invests'
gation of Mr. Warner's inventions.
Captain PECHELL would be very happy to second
the motion, fur the sake of inquiry and discussion, 031,1
while he did so he could not but admire the zeal en"
ability which the No Lord had exhibited in conduct'
ing the case of Mr. Wareer through three successive
Ailmieistretions.—(Hear. hear.) He admitted that the
ship at Brighton was blown up, but it must be remeor
bereti that the vessel just previous to its disappearetc!
was in tow of a st,_amer. Now, here was the diffietl7l; -
They did not want such an invention as this when shell; •
of battle ship could get so near its adversary ; And beg'
one believed Mr. Warner never would be able to tteeoei;
elfish the end he had proposed to himself. It could ver
.
he contradicted th t before the invention could become or
any use, the vetoes' to apply it must approach veryll°
indeed to the (elect to be acted upon.—(Hear, hear.) e'
r
Sir DOUGLAS said he once had the honeorl?
being a member of a Commis-ion appointed to investv.-
gate' the merite of the intention. and certainly 'the ore
chisien he came to, after duly and patiently con4dereLeei
the •übjeet, and witoessing many experiments, was e''"o-e.
commen gurceiweer would accomplish just as nenrl'irof
me, Warner's shel's. When everything was read) ip
the trial of the it aeuntlieg di,coveres of Captelo
Warner, the Comod,-ion received a letter from hire,
which he pe-itively -tate,' that he would riot proceed
make the experiment or disclose the secret in thee_
presenee, unless he received an assurance from the (Po
yernment that be shwa., he paid a slim that had Veto
p,evioitely named. He (Sir H. Douglas) begged. Lee,
House to mind the terms of the letter, -` before he rsi
ceeded to make the experiment." The Committee. Of
course, in reply, told him that they had no pow,,,
to make any final arrangement with
(Hear, hear)—bat that if the experiment 170.
made they should report to the Government. Ifetti
of ceur-e, would be at perfect liberty to deal with el..
A§ they should think fit with respect to remunerates
They al‘o replied to him, that his proposition wase,e';;
tirely et variance with his previous arrangements. P.te,,
the Noble Lord (Viscount Ingestre) had said that Ice,
answers of Captain Warner, to the questions of to::.
Committee, were taken down in writing. They wereee.
taken down, hut that was done in the presence of
B. Martin, who, on the part of Captain Warner, to.oste;
leading part in the affair ; they were, in fact, vatteo
down by that gentleman, and it was right for the I•l°,e'ef
and the country to know with what sort of a man t7,,',1
had to deal. No one was present in the room ltii4
the Commissioners, Captain Warner. and Sir B. Aill!int
and the minutes that were taken down In W11:10,
by that gentleman, he (Sir Howard Douglas) Ls° '6Ol,
in his possession, and it was but just to the Hotlseenole
the country that the important parts should be
The Hon. Member having accordingly read a few A
tracts from the minutes of the Committee's proceeolep
went on to say that the Noble Lord had made ane.ho,,
charge against him (Sir H. Douglas), and that was, "bee;
he had done his best to draw from Captain Warner 70,,
secrets of his invention, but in reply to that charge•4l
begged- to say that never was projector more fairly I,l‘,
favourably treated by any Government or public Du"
Every assistance was afforded him, wed he (Si ,
; rse
Donets) could confidently assert, that hie case halide,
,
ceived:frOm the Committee the fairest and ful;etet coon I.
N.onehe.theught.ater such' gallant men., le,e;roi
such high.eliaea.cte4etsehis friead Sir E. Owen and r
Martin, had.''sairt that in tfieire-opinion, the e%Ptebet.
ment was a detided feilureeenaeineecould fairly 00'e% eoe
Captain Warner had been unjustly treated by the v'tbe
rnissieners. He hoped he had tirieffy convinced. et
House that not only Captain Warner, but the public
of
large, had been justly treated by the Committeet,d,.
which he hail been a member ; that they had, after rivrif,
labour, extensive experiments, and much expense, r;tlive
given Captain Warner's inventions a fair trial ; an the
present Government would, he trusted adhere `"
conclusion to which they had come, viz that the
visible shell by itself was a great delusion, and tv-70elf
ridiculous affair. If Captain Witmer could, under t.
eircemstances as the Committee had procOevetitberr
that was to say. in a particular sell of eof
ide, and vv;rel, carry his. shell to the distalle've
eye or six ini:es. and with perfect safety to those nod
.heuld have to nee it, then, he ''or one, should sui;:i
a.,--(Hear, hear.) Rut u• til that experiment coo'd, of •
melt. successfully-and, with the hide smatterleevl
-wience that he (eir H. Douglas) had, at:d tie pre •
knowledge which he had 40: gurirlerv, he was convilteroi
could net—he must continue incredulous in such Mee the
—(Hear, hear.) The Neble Lord had spoken e`
tithe
,'rent improvement of genpowder, and metier e%ig•
things ; that marry trades had been brought isto6ool
tenet., and many sciences were Low in active 01)%eore:
e hied), not long ago, we should have %VP'
litter's- impracticable. Bet having the experiencew
he (Sir Jonah's-) had in these matters, he kne 01*,
it was physically impossible to project a shell five aro.'
miles distance. Of course it had been add soul:it/4 0
e.g. teat it was impossible to produce such '1";;
zits, and that steam would never come into operstte'reo;
its present powerful silent. But alt these were ittolev
in nature, and merely required minds or Pet
cviralairbirleeet;ithber,i,nrgy, chh,ezevi,nrt,owaaestibvaeseodporaraatioranfse,i;.C,.sooolll;
don, and his mind was biased. When he tY th.
Warner) was reminded by the Commissioners:,
one
difficulty of overcoming the resistance of tilesior
rte" Weat ! do
have
. u talk',. of the
tillifirel
ance of the air? have a power •a 05
Mmes greater than that." Now they of tho
all know, that were it not fir the great resistance,. 00
air, a shot could at present be carried a range oh, of
miles at the least. It was perfectly absurd to tat cal'
!heory, when there was the practice which Weft
tbf
not overcome. Of course, they must know We&
greater the projectile force, the greater the resists. Joe,
the air. The ablest scientific journals of the dsito
else, shown the utter impracticability of the schoedi:ie9
Captain Warner, and amongst ethers were the joodj
Review arid the Artisan. All of them were tolenoter
in pronouncing the experiment a failure. ge peril
himself stand within a range of six miles.
Captain Warner or any other man to reach him "fee!,.
distance by means of a projectile shell.--(Latighter•?l,ol
the largest mortar that had been manufactured a sbe:p tb.so
be pre jetted no further than three miles, ando
tai
/11r
experiment labour and care had been bestowe, • fie
Warner in reference to that experiment had ":"9:4 tbeA,
the mortar was not a projectile ; but if it was n'
what was, it ? On all the grounds that he had s'; I°
then, he must say that he was incredulous ijit
be
Captain Warner's so•called inventions, by ties!
contended that they were not in fact intrellelir.•
and that every one of what Captain Warner calle,reee,
secrets" had been published years ago in r„sl9,
scientific work. He hoped he was mistaken in saYieeleire
Captain Warner's scheme was a fillure ; but after,rceel
the subject a fair and patient investigation, he could eV;
to no other conclusion than that the whold affair We; tlive;
ridiculous and absurd ; and he, therefore', 12(43ci toed
her Majesty's Government would not be dill, .tree'r
in contradiction to the decisions of the Conee2"'..
i
which he had been a member.s
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUV,IIeoi.
that the only course which the Government could NN''
would be to appoint a Commission of several io3r-
lld
versons competent to inquire into the subject:l 00
hoped such a course would satisfy the Noble Los"- •
induce him to withdraw his motion. n'oobo
1,
Mr. BROTHERTON said that all the inforto;
nail received upon the subject was from Col. Stt"e'ett,`-;
had served in Portugal.. He (Col. Shaw) had ogee'
Capt. Warner to test the powers of his "inventicV
Capt. Warner had-made a great number of excuses 011!
the subject; and it was Col. Shaw's opinion t-le:per
could not perform anything like,vvhat he had stet °
in his power to do. He thought these discussions aloe
long ranges and invisible shells should not be 031110°0
occupy so much of the attention of the House' nt• thoi
attention should be directed, not to:the promotion .'-'O5O
means or the reward of inventions for the Pur.ei,
destroying life and spreading misery and ,1
rather for the promotion of arts and scien°"'lll le.
to improve and benefit the condition of the PePtho.
thought that future generations would say,
much of their time had been wasted upon these
discussions.
Mr. WAKLEY thought it high time that these dii,tplie.di
tions should be settled. Much time had been oec;"ti...:
in the discussions of these matters, but nothing
_'ioo'
stsoiroyn ht
oa
be
appointed o s e tsoh.
auspodhn,feiicoytr.ehsmudodolidniulssitabtagoearrfnyieynaeoccmlrpuuertdnnee
jeta,duro-dacbiilncsaeeporitoffivta,naicwntetihohrwsnoe,
, and in favour of old habaqwwai
ouHlde
ctohnosuigsth.t
ntohtateZti-;401),
• f e
ruthonnsed:oesirbtdwsiutoerstiigorhoten;ohgtunaaltosnedtdottuwn:hrbinlolrgooir!eg
iro
to express in writing, that he was satisfied with tb
pointment of the Commission. He quite agreed lci 10 .
ve /
opinion, that the public money might be expel:Of:n.o4
better manner than in encouraging the art of er",jor:/8
it must be borne in mind, that the best way to 131 r-
peace was to be prepared for war.—(Cheers./..oeily
hoped the Noble Lord would consent to withal.°
to
motion.
rePrd t 0

Sir 11, DOUGLAS begged to state, with
obtaining the consent of Captain Warner, in voliri
the commission, that that had been already obtaineh-oovic
respect to the Commission of which he had the l'hory
to be a member, but it was productive of no
whatever. en ..4f
Lord INGESTRE thanked the Right Iron. -"he
man, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for this, lfissti'
act of his public Administration ; it was one of
and complimented him upon so favourable a conlVoffil,e
ment of his duties. He was sure that Captain
would be quite willing to abide by the decision (Lei,,
Commission appointed by Government ; and be fit 0,131,
Ingestre) would be happy to afford the Governroet-Cov„.
assistance in his power, in the forma•ion of that re'
mission. Under such circumstances, lie would ll°o4l.
his motion. The motion was accordingly withal.' t
of
THE PROVINCE Of' SINDE.
Mr. HUME begged to ask the Right Hon. Pri
the President of the Board of Control (Sir J.
house) whether he was at that time, or if 11-reo be
whether he would upon an early period, be pre g 5 today
state in what condition the province of Sinde,:if.st
loisb
considered whether as forming part of the
Company's possession, or as belonging to the lit
overnmen t. to
Sir Sir R. H. INGLIS wished to ask the 50-000 of
Hon. Baronet whether it was not possible for
lioceoy
retrace the steps they had taken in the P1.°..,0g.,(11„0?
Snide, and replace :those whom they had vc'"coin'af,
dispossessed of their territOrics in their formes rth re.so
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE would be prepared. Witoi"
911C3 to the question of the Hen. Member fa -

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