The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-27 00:00:00

GROUP X.

- -
The Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, in Room No 1 (Hone
of Commons), present Mr. Deedes (chairman), Mr Arkwright, Mr.
Farnham, Mr. Stanley, and Mr. Vivian. They Immediately called
on the
CAZZDONIAN (DUNTIT'VAN 3ER,ANCH).
A BROAD HINT TO LEADERS.

It ivas then intimated that the promoters did not mean to call
any further evidence, considering that their case was established as
against the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands.
MT. FORSYTH requested that the Committee would grant a few
minutes' Indulgence to Mr. Cockburn, Q.C., who, as leading counsel
in this case, was prepared to sum up the evidence of the promoters,
but was unfortunately at that moment engaged in another room.
The Committee, having waited for a considerable time, expresse6
impatience at the delay, and called on Mr. Forsyth to proceed with
the case. _ _

Mr. Forsyth was most reluctant to do so in the absence of
fr. Cockburn, who had prepared himself for the task. The Learned
Gentleman
then, as it appeared, went out to hasten Mr. Cockburn.
In his absence,
The CHAIRMAN, addressing the agent, said that the Committee
did not think it was their duty to the public or to the parties to give a
such indulgence as was here required to counsel who had paid no
attention whatever to the case from the commencement. They
would not wait any longer for Mr Cockburn, nor could they see
any reason why Mr. Forsyth, who bad diligently attended to the case
from beginning to end, and had heard all the evidence, should not
proe,eed with his statement. lie wasperfectly
and there was no reason for wasting timeincompetent to do so,
extendingdn indulgence to
a gentleman who had sot heard a word of the a
At length, with great hesitation on his own' part,e ce.
tut on the pe-
remptory demand of the Committee, who would wait Ito longer, it
being one o'clock,
Mr. FoasYTH proceeded to make the statement for the promoters
as made out in the evidence.
After the conclusion replied Forsyth's elaborate and able statement,
Mr. ANDREWS, Q.C., on behalf of the Glasgow, Airdrie, and
Monklands, dwelling most emphatically upon the great advantages
which that line would confer upon the whole community of Glasgow,
by choosing the Mile-end district as the site of its terminal station,'
and upon the University, by giving a new set of buildings in a far
superior situation.
The room was then cleared for a division, and, on the readmission
of strangers,
The CHAIRMAN announced the decision of the Committee to be,
that the preamble of the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands Junction
Bill was proved ; and that the preamble of the Caledonian (Dandy-
van Branch) was not proved.
The consideration of the clauses in the Bill, of which the preamble
Was passed, was postponed. •
CALEDONIAN (GLASGOW, GARNICULX,
AND COA.TDR.IIIGE RAILWAY JUNCTION.
The preliminary evidence on this Bill (according to Mr. Dun-
comws reseimiens) was then taken, and the Commit ee
t a
ho adjpe that
ourned
till twelve o'clock on Thursday, the Chairman expressing
the parties would be in readiness, so that the whole might be con-
Oncled on Friday, before the holidays.:

GROUP XI.
The Committee re-assembled this day at the usual hour ; Mr.
Henley, chairman.
AIRIIRTE AND BATHGAICE AND
EDINBURGH AND BATHGATE.
The Committee went through the clauses of these Bills, which
were all agreed to, and the Bills ordered to be reported to the
Mouse.
The consideration of the Several lines wich formed is
beiug finished, the labours of this Committee h
terminated. th group

GROUP XIII.
c.a.z.zpoigsAN (LANGIIOLIVI nrtaivca).
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. RICKARDS said it was against all then
ules of evidence to reeal
Witnesses after a case was closed. If they d so, there Would be no
end to the inquiry.T
The
e Cilia's
It was but the opinion
said that it was not a matter of much moment, as
Iratiett of the. Pinion of the present witness against the positive de-
didd not consider witnesses who had bcen called on the ether side. He
wit-
nesses referred tothere w....
any necessity for calling back the
RICICIARDs-2-B
gation, which „
n,orttithat opinion is the result of scientific inVestt-
agent, who is Inter Inl)°rtant than '
Med in the evidence of a proprietor or
case. g a favourable representation to the
Witness's examination
gaged in making continued—He had
Duke of Bnccleuch, the immenseus 3urveYs. __ebeen exclusively en-
had himself been engaged
irtiquis of Lothillanh, had been employed by the
Canobie field, and all they i' coal-field near D
and Lord Jedburgh. He
was 30,000 tons. The witness was been able to raise from
as large as the
of showing that the lime and ONVtir then examined'eerom it annually
exaggerated. He did not think ther mineral train with the object
Salvia. Canobie
. e had been much
um would
Cross-exarnined by Mr. TALBOT—He go beyond
would go up as far as Hawick. At thought the
:Berwick coal consumed in Haw
r.esent there was n
Berwick coal
Hawick district in November last He
went into
,of the Caledonian Company. He spent two at the instanhe
1 xawiek, inquiring into the coal consumption. aTI and a night ea
t
mAnufacturers that they frequently got coal from I!,3was told by the
conid not say bow much of it was consumed. He Berwick, but he
the :nanufacturers who gave him the information,
as he
net name
memoranda here. He had been one afternoon at e had not his
examined the strata. Canome, and
if:. Nicholas Wood, mining engineer, of Newcastle, said
he had
visited many of the coal-fields in the south of Scotland. me
agre"
generally N7ith the evidence of Mr. Williamson, that Hawick
be partly supplied from Berwick and partly from Canobie. He
had
looked over Mr. Williamson's tables, and concurred in them.
Crosr-3xamined by Mr. LIDDELL—He did not think an addition of
50 per cent. a fair increase to be made in the tables. Chevington
was the nearest coal-geld
an in d
the small Northumberland to
about Berwi2sck. The
. The
best coal there was 6s. a ton, was
best Canobie coal, at the pit's mouth, was 51. 4d.
to ,the ut he did not think
the small coal was so cheap in:proportion Chevington, as
there was a greater demand for it. If the smallhen, coal at
as Canobie Canobie was
as cheap in proportion as the best coal, t
eighteen miles nearer to Hawick than Chevino
roses t
coal of bin
former would be used for manufacturing purposes at Hawick, in
preference to the latter. He did not think the Canobie coal would
go round by way of Carlisle to be exported. The reason of
coal being so dear last year at Carlisle was on account of the stopping
of the Bienkensop colliery. That also detained the ships from getting
loads. The largest outfit he had known from any pit in one year was
50,000 tons. He thought 50,000 tons from twelve coal•pits in the
Lothians, as stated by the previous witness, a small quantity.
Mr. Steele, Mayor of Carlisle, and proprietor of the Carlisle
Journal, deposed that he had paid great attention to the question
of communication with Scotland. Ho had been examined
last year on the Caledonian Railway. He was decidedly
of opinion that only two through lines into Scotland
could be supported—one on the east side, and another
towards the west. He then supported the Caledonian line, in prefer-
ence to the Nithsdale line, as affording the best general accom-
In dation. If this line were passed, there would with the Nithsdale
line be two communications to both Edinburgh and Glasgow, which
like did not think the traffic would support. The whole capital thus
rep mired would be to be raised by the bills, 5,160,0001. ; and sup-
Dos. 'l4 one7thtrtl NW 137 loan, Which Wll4 usually done, that would

make a total of 6,880,0001. From information derived from eneneers,
he calculated the working schemes per mile per annum it 6001.,
which on 367 miles of railway would be 220,0001. Now, that with
au addition of 4 per cent. on the capital would make 233,2001. more,
or a total of nearly half a million, that would have to be raised. He
did not think much -stone would be brought by the railway, as it
could be got in large quantities not far from Carlisle. Besides, brick
for building purposes was in the generality of instances preferred.
The quantity of coal consumed in Carlisle and its neighbourhood was
about 60,000 tons. It was got from various points In Cumberland,
and brought by the Newcastle and Maryport hallways. The Cano-
bie coal was such that he would not use for household purposes.
There was an extensive quantity exported. The best on hoard was
Bs., the second 55., and the small 4s. The small coal was very well
suited for manufacturing purposes. The Canobie coal would have to
go on to the Newcastle line and go down to the canal by it for
shipping. He thought it could not be shipped for less than 7s. 7d.
a ton. It would also have to compete with the Maryport line.
of Cross -ex a
Carlisle
hma
had
npeodu—Le
ekdnfeowr
tihhea that
raesgerne at t
line,mb
buter ohfe tooh
llnhabitants
coalwha tbyt hietir. mHootihvaesd
gwi h
isPieardhi avpi
Individuals tahl eoypimh
iiogahtthexpect supplieso
lodf
not be much used in Carlisle. He could not speak as to the wants of
the Hawick district.
Mr. wil;lam Pare, traffic-taker, examined—He took the traffic of
the Hawick and Carlisle turnpike-road in 1844, and again in last
autumn. Ile placed men at different points last year—he took the
first fourteen days in October. He had prepared a table founded on
those observations. He calculated the probable amount of traffic for
post-horses, gigs, and other private conveyances, to be 1,409/. 13s. 4d.;
this was from Hawick to CarlfSle. The North British estimated it
at 3,6651. They had added 150 per cent. on that, instead of 100 per
cent., as last year. He had assumed of those that were travelling,
except by post-hypes that the half would take the railway. The
general merchandise and agricultural produce he noted in a similar
way ; the amount was 1,4811. 17s. 9d. He had excluded in his cal-
culation the fish and meat supposed, on the other side, to go from
Dalkeith and Dunbar, and also the Hawick and Newcastle traffic,
respecting which he could not make any comparison. The item he
named was to set against the 5,519/. in the table on the other side.
Instead of 5,7621. for stone, wood, &e., taken credit for on the other
side, he set down 3911. For small parcels lie thought 3,0001. very
much exaggerated. In the tables of the Caledonian line this year he
estimated the through traffic from Carlisle to Edinburgh to be
20,9131., and to that extent the present line would be a competing
line.

Cross-examined—ln some cases he had known 15 per cent. of in-
crease in traffic, and more. The most common rate was 100 per cent.
It was not common to double the merchandise. He had never known
it doubled, but coal he had. His object in 1844, was to take the
through traffic from Carlisle to Edinburgh from those tables. He did
not assume any traffic between Carlisle, Langton, or Canobie, as the
line was not proposed to touch them, and he had nothing to do
with the through traffic. ?Tot any of the local traffic was
noted. In the last observation, he made the goods between
Langholm and Hawibk backwards and forwards to be 1,837 tons per
annum. That was according to the observation of fourteen days.
He did not speak as to the coal at all. He was not aware that large
quantities of grain went from Roxburgh towards Dumfries.
Mr. Collister, resident engineer of the Caledonian Railway, exa-
mined—He hail made two surveys of the Hayden arm Carlisle line.
He made the last observation about a month ago. He was ob-
structed by the Duke of Buccleuch's gamekeepers but as far as he
could do so he ran levels, The works were very heavy, the valleys
being steep, and the hills very abrupt. The witness here put in a
section of the works which he had drawn out in which some specifi-
cations were made which did not appear in the plans and
sections of the promoters. The sections of the latter did not
represent the whole of the works. This was in consequence of the
shelving manner in which the line crossed the side of a steep hill.
For thirty miles the line was taken through grawacke or whinstone
rock, the cutting of which would be very expensive. The Teviot was
crossed thirteen times in nine miles. The promoters of the Hawick
gave the estimate of the ordinary earthwork at 111,4481. ; he set it
down at 151,5071. For whinstone—
The CHAIRMAN suggested that the witness had better put in the
details in the form of a table.
Mr. RICKARDS said the table should be supplied to the Committee,
as also to counsel on the other side, and in the meantime a few
minutes would suffice to ask all the questions necessary on the items.
Witness's examination continued—The whinstone and sandstone
cuttings he set down at 519,374 cubic yards, at a cost of 78,7331.,
which they made 497,000 cubic yards, at 70,3471. The tunnel he
estimated at 15,0001., they made it 9,9001. The witness then went
over the viaducts proposed to be made, all which were undervalued.
For all the items he had referred to he estimated 483,6951., instead
of theirs, which was 328,3201. The permanent way, ballasting, &c.
he set down at 225,8461., instead of 189,2911., their estimate. The
value of the land and the two small branches he took at their
estimate. The result of the whole was, that his total was
820,6291., instead of theirs, which was 660,000/. He had
taken the works at the rates which the Caledonian were let
at. One of the main thoroughfares in Carlisle was crossed on the
level according to the deposited plans. They could not deviate so as
to cross by a bridge, because they could not, according to the de-
posited plans, take sufficient width for the approaches. If Borough-
street was lowered as proposed, it would be below the natural drain-
age of the town. According to the agreement that had been entered
into, the rails would have to be raised eight feet more than they were
stated in the deposited plans, The Caledonian (Langholm branch)
was thirteen miles long. The severest gradient was one in 150, and
the sharpest curve a radius of half a mile. The engineering pecu-
liarities were more favourable than those of the opposing line through
the same tract. The estimate was 180,0001, ; this included works and
land for a double line, but only a single line of rails was proposed to
be laid down. The works were generally favourable. There would
be no difficulty in making a communication from the line to the
Canobie . .

The Committee then adjourned till Thursday at twelve o'clock,
when the cross-examination will be taken.

GROUP XIV.
KENT ATMOSPHERIC SCHEME.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

On cross-examination, Mr. Sherrad stated that his estimates did
not include the atmospheric pipe nor either the payment for the
pa'ent right or the stationary engines. In laying out the line he
had no specific mode of working in view, because his instruction from
Mr. CuI:AU, the consulting engineer of the line, was to procure a line
with a ruling gradient of lin 80. The witness was cross-examined
at considerable length with a view of showing that his comparison
between the two lines, both as regarded gradients, tunnels, with
stations and lengths, had been made upon an erroneous principle.
The Committee then adjourned till Thursday, at twelve o'clock.

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY_ EVENIVGS., MAY 27, 1846.

Liverpool Canal Company, was the next witness. He proved that
that company experienced great difficulties in procuring a proper
supply of water, particularly in the summer months.
Mr. Edward Cresswell, of the firm of Hayward, Cresswell. and
Sons, ironmasters, Dudley, was next called to show the benefit which
the construction of this railway would confer on the iromnasters of
Hadley and the neighbourhood.
The remainder of the day was occupied with the hearing of similar
evidence, and the Committee adjourned at four o'clotk till twelve on
Thursday next.