The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-02 00:00:00

compulsory emigration, which was not popular in Ireland;
but yet voluntary emigration might be encouraged in a very
serviceable way. Now, to all these points the Government
might direct their attention, and they ought to do so. They
might frame the machinery as they liked, bat still the princi-
ple ought to be adopted and used. There were several clauses
in this Bill that ought to be withdrawn without injuring it,
but the principle itself was good, and, if carried out, would
tend 'to improve many estates in Ireland; and believing
so, he gave the Bill his most cordial support.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM explained that he opposed the
Bill on the grounds that it gave relief to the able•bodied
poor, that interfered with the exercise of their duties by the
Poor-law Guardians, disposed of the great question of the
out-door relief, and proposed an impossibility in attempting
to do away with mendicancy in Ireland.
Lord; J. RUSSELL, though favourable to any improve-
ment in the condition of Ireland, could not give his assent to
this Bill, for though the Commissioners might be very
good judges of the state of Ireland, yet he
had very great doubt of their recommendation to
give relief to the poor at their own hands. He had
consulted Mr. Senior and Mr. Cornwall Lewis on this point,
and they had both given great attention to this subject, and
their impressions were that the alteration would have
the effect of adding new evils to those which
already existed in the old poor-law of Elizabeth.
He would call upon those who impugned the reasons of those
persons if they could, and be was the more impressed with
their conclusions by the reasons which they
had assigned for them.—(Hear.) They stated, for
instance, with regard to emigration, that a
difficulty would arise in the event of those who professed to be
ready, declaring when the ship was about to sail that they were
unable to go with it. If they yielded to such a declaration
they lost all the benefit of the outlay, while if they persisted in
forcing the parties to emigrate who had obtained the assis-
tance of Government, they would lay themselves open to
the reproach of having absolutely transported these indi-
viduals, instead of having encouraged voluntary emi-
gration. It did not follow that because there were
2,300,000 poor people in Ireland, there were
so many paupers, but that there were 2,300,000 persons not
in the possession of the comforts of others of similar condi-
tion in this country. He would not enter into the great ques-
tions of tenure of land and tenant right, but he must
declare his belief that there must be a workhouse
or some other similar test, and he conceived that if the poor
were to be relieved, it must be through the agency of other
and indirect means. For these reasons he should oppose
the Bill, conceiving that it was not calculated to accomplish
the ends which the mover intended.
The O'CONORI DON thought that the feeling in Ire-
land was decidedly against any increase of the poor-rates,
and that, therefore, if there was difficulty now, it would be
increased if this measure were passed, and he should, there-
fore, oppose it.
Mr. P. BUTLER said that there was evidently not any
necessity for the change. The Charitable Society and the
Benevolent Society, the two great charitable institutions of
Ireland, relieved every week 168 individuals. His belief
is that the guardians in Ireland ought to be compelled to
provide relief for the destitute poor.
Mr. WAKLEY—(" Question, question")—had heard only
a part of the discussion, and he regretted to have heard that.
The Right Honourable Baronet, the influential member of
the Government that is, and the Noble Lord who expected
shortly to be at the head of the Government that is
to be, had both positively declared themselves decidedly
opposed to the principle of the Bill, but he had yet to
learn why there should be a difference between the manage-
ment of the poor in Ireland and in this country. What was
the fact ? Why that the Irish poor prefered to be sent to
a gaol to returning to their own country. This was a fact which
ought to secure the most serious attention of the Irish Members.
He believed that this subject would grow in strength from year
to year, until the same system of legislation was adopted
with regard to Ireland as was adopted with respect to this
country. His conviction was, that outrages would increase
until they 'gave a right to relief in cases of destitution, and
as soon as that was granted, a great moral change
would be wrought in the condition of the poor of that
couutry. He should give the Bill his cordial support in all
its stages, and he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would
allow it to go into Committee and there be modified if he
desired it, for he thought this was a duty which he owed to
the poor of Ireland, and if he did not do so, his (Mr. Wakley's)
impression was that his refusal would be a source of very
painful reflection.
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON opposed the Bill.
Mr. SCROPE said he would not trouble the House by
dividing, and the second reading of the Bill was negatived
without a division.
COUNTY ELECTIONS.
The County Elections Bill was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed on Tuesday next.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS (INDIA) BILL.
Lord MAHON moved that the Insolvent Debtors (India)
Bill should be read a first time.—Agreed to, and ordered to
be lead a second time on Monday.
FACTORIES BILL.

Sir R. INGLIS presented several petitions numerously
signed by clergymen, praying the House would prevent
young persons from being employed more than seven hours.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Six o'clock.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES

(YESTERDAY.)

GROUP VIII