The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-06 00:00:00

take care not alone of their honours but of their independence.
In saying <o much he did not wish to question any act of libe-
rality which her Majesty's Government in their discretion—*
ch.cretion whieh he thocaht ought to remain with them—but it
was one which ousht not to be exercised in looseness by either
House of Parliament. He neither meant to call for it nor to
object to it, but he did wish to state that The vote which he
should give in favour of an address to the Crown, was given
strictly on the condition that where those great honours were
conferred, it was the duty of both Houses of Parliament to see
that they were conferred on individuals who had rendered im-
portant services to the State—that they were so independent
in their circumstances as to put them on a bottrig of equality
with a bulk of their Lordships, which they would have to main-
tain. He would say no more than that he heartily concurred
in the address which his Noble Friend had moved, and which
he was sure would receive the unanimous concurrence of the
House.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE said it was impossible for hint
not to avail himself of that opportunity to express his most
hearty concurrence to the motion before their Lordships. He
was the more anxious to address them then, as he did not ad-
dress them when the original proposition was made, and thanks
were voted to the army. He did not speak on that occasion to
which he had referred, in consequence of the number of
Noble Lords who spoke, and because he did not wish
to take up their time. He therefore availed himself of this
opportunity to express the pride he felt, and which he was
sure every soldier felt, at belonging to such an army as that
which had so distinguished itself in India. Every soldier,
from an ensign to a field-marshal, to which position it had been
his fortune to reach, ought to feel great pleasure for the bril-
liant victories which they had achieved; and it must no doubt
give great satisfaction to his Noble Friend, the Commande. -
in-Chief, to know that those officers were bred and trained by
him.—( Cheers.) But he wished to express his opinion on
one point, namely, the service of Viscount Hardinge under Sir
Hugh Gough, the Commander-in-Chief, in India. He be-
lieved if he had not joined in the engagements, and assigned
the duty to a deputy commander, he would have done himself
more credit than by risking his life in the field. He ought to
have left to that commander the whole credit of the great
battle which had established our dominion on the banks of the
Sutlej.—(Cheers. ) He thought it his duty to say thus mum.
He however admired the noble conduct of Viscount Hardinge in
the engagements. After thanking the House for the attentis.n
with which they had listened to him, his Royal Highness re.
sumed his seat.
Lord BROUGHAM said he was sure he would but echo the
sentiments of all their Lordships ; and the Noble Prince nad
well expressed the self-gratification which he felt at belonging
to an army which numbered such men amongst it, when he
said that they must equally congratulate themselves in belong-
ing to an assembly the doors of which were thrown open to
those illustrious persons.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted that no-
thing which he was about to add to those expressions would be
deemed, by any possibility, to be an objection on his part to
the granting of peerages to those illustrious men, because their
Lordships were so unanimously of opinion that they ought to
be granted unto them. To the gallant and skilfal conduct of
the Governor-General of India, before he met the enemy in
the field, they were indebted to that happy termination to a
war, which was, in itself, one of great expense—of some du.
ration- of great cost of precious blood ; but as to the termi-
nation of which they could entertain no alarm, while the interest*
of this country were intrusted to such troops as our Indian army,
and such officers as Hardinge and Gough. But he must say
one word as to those who were not before them. He quite
agreed with his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Lansdowne) that
there honours ought to proceed solely from the suggestions of
the Crown. But it must be remembered that there were those
who had already entered the temple of fame there was another
name in connexion with Lord Hardinge, of whom it might
be said as of two great men of old, Brutus and Cassius,
Quo minus rorum imagines dedeut.
He meant Sir Charles Napier, and he (Lord Brougham) could
only regret that no mention had been made of his name.
Lord GLENELG said the verdict of all Europe was that
verdict which posterity would pronounce with respect to the
achievements of the two officers whose names were before the
House. In this of course he included the valour of the
troops under their command. He included also that forbear.
ance which had been exhibited before the battle ; it was the
forbearance of a great nation, conscious of its great resources;
but which was only anxious that, if it entered into a war, it
should not be sullied by dishonour. As the name of Sir Charles
Napier had been mentioned, he would call to their
Lordships recollection the name of Sir H. Smith.
He thought there should be a memorial worthy of this great
nation, which should be inscribed in such a manner as would
include the men, from the greatest down to the lowest officer
and man, who had taken part in such great achievements.
He could not but wish to see the services of that distinguished
officer, Sir Robert Sale, who had closed his life on the field of
battle, as become a great officer, acknowledged in such a man..
ner as would keep alive his memory amongst the other distin-
guished men.
Earl FITZWILLIAM said, that it was not very pleasant to
interrupt the unanimity of their Lordships. He did not wish
to go into any discussion—he did not wish to go into any quese
tien too deep, perhaps, for the consideration of Parliament..
He assumed that they had been engaged in a great struggle—.
he assumed that they had been engaged in a great dispute—he
assumed all this. His Noble Friend who sat by him, had said,
that in consenting to this vote he did not attach anything like
a pecuniary reward to the honour about to be conferred.. It was the duty of Parliament to take care that, as far as
circumstances could contribute to independence, the
r
should place these eminent individuals in indeeden yt
situations. He apprehended that there was no Notate Lord
who did not respond and acquiesce in the opinion steted by his
Noble Friend. The question to which he wished to direct
their Lordships' attention, and to which the attention of the
other House should be directed, was, whether the course which
it was proposed for them to take, voting a pecuniary, he would
not say reward, but the pecuniary means of maintaing the in-
dependence of those introduced to their Lordships' House, was
a wise and dignified course for the nation to adopt. Bat he
would ask their Lordships, why they were to stop at tlse se-
cond generation? If those actions had been so grey:, and if
those large rewards had heen properly bestowed, wY.sict: he did
not for a moment doubt they had, he really
did not think that the country should be niggardly in
supporting the honours and dignities which 'had been con-
ferred by her Gracious Majesty. They provided, as his Noble
Friend had stated, as far as external circumstances would admit,
for the independence of those individuals :ntroduced into that
House. They also provided for the next gt:neration, and also for
that which was to follow ; but why were they to stop there ?
Was this nation so poor and so ungrateful that they tsould not
afford to reward even succeeding generations ?
knew it
might be said that in the course of two generation: provision
might be made for those which were to follow. He would
or
wLordships' House sho old assume.
put it to their Lord hips, whether what they were about to do
es.re ta.elv to give to the preceeding generations. would
a 'mete,. wlsiols enable
afford the means of amassing
those who followed to whim It was presumed
as a great want of discretion in
7111 e rewards. lie cees.s seee.-
si RI tri-e r';
t personsappl; Eloui
gave rewaras to the second one .5.1.,1 gene* ations, whiTe'uttitS
' fourth and fifth generations were to be deprived of the income.
The incoares ought to last as long as tlie period itself lasted.
'I he argument in the other House against such a proceeding
wculd be, that you must not saddle the country prospectively
with such burdens. If these peerages were examined, it
would be found, that three generations was the longest period
that they lasted in any family. He thought it his duty to
make these observations, because he conceived, if it was right
for a peerage to be granted, it was also pre per tl at means
adequate to the maintenance of the peerage should be furnished
so long as it existed.
The Answers to the Addresses were then put by the LOW°
CHANCELLOR, and were agreed to.
THE LORD LIEUTENANCY OF THE COUNTY OP
WEXFORD.
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tulorum. Lord Melbourne, on a previous occasion similar
to the present said, it was not proposed to abolish the office
of Custos, but to unite It with the Lord-Lieutenant. The.
Noble Lord then alluded to offices having been held conjointly
by one individual, and concluded by saying, that it would ber
injurious to the public, and disrespectful to the House, if suck
proceedings were allowed to pass unnoticed.
Earl ST. GERMANS said the Noble Lord admitted Oast
legal right was vested in the other House. If he would refer
to the third clause in the Act, he would find that it was die.
tinctly enacted that the office of Custos was to be filled 'by any
person that the said Lieutenant might choose to :appoint.
There was no restriction, and there was no reference: made to
persons being disqualified from holding that office. He could
see no objection to consolidate these two offices in one person.
In the time of Lord Melville's administration there were 3•P'
individuals holding the office of Custos Rotulorum, and of this
number 12 were allowed to hold the office of Lord-Lieutenant.
The Government had appointed persons holding their own pe-
litical opinions, but still he believed they were competent peos_
sons, and no complaints had been made as to the manner im
which they performed the duties of their office. He (Ear /. St..
Germans) confessed his inability to see any difference be'sween,
appointing a person who held the office of Custos to be a Lord-
Lieutenant, and a person who was Lord-Lieutenan*„ to be ap-
pointed to perform the duties of Custos. The Noble Lord
concluded by saying he had no objection caber ever to lay the
correspondence the Noble Lord wished four b. More the House.
The Duke of LEINSTER, who
%P are in so low a tone as
to be nearly inaudible in the gallery., was understood to say
that he had held, in his own polo!' , the offices of Custos and
Lord-Lieutenant of a county for many years and that he was
acquainted with instances of ila'.'sividuals who bad been simi:arly
situated.
Lord STANLEY said that in 1831 and 1832 the Govern-
ment were desirous of assimilating the law of Ireland with theft
of England, with ;expect to the appointments of Lord-Lieu-
tenants to the office of Custos Rotulorum. The Government
were desirous also of appointing to these offices those whose
station and whose property might make the informal..
tion which they could obtain valuable to the Go-
vernment. Lord Courtown was to be selected. It was true:
that in. some cases persons were not qualified to hold the situa-
tios:, of Custos Rotulorum and Lord-Lieutenant, but the Gn.-
vernment of which he was speaking was anxious that th
two offices should be held by the same persons. It
could not:
be admitted that the exception, which had been mentioned by
his Noble Friend, was at all material, becau although it was
se,
quite true that Lord Londonderry was not appointed to the
Lord-Lieutenancy, it must be borne • mind that at the times
he was holding the office of a Lord-Lin eutenancy in this coun-
try. With respect to the Noble Lord
subject under the consideration , who had brought this
of the House,
he could say
that in the performance of the duties of the office of Lord'-
Lieutenant of this county he had enjoyed the full confidence off
the Government of which He could only say that i he
d
Lor Stanley) was a member..
the union of the t,c,
offices in the same persons was advantae,
geous to the public inter
The Earl of WICKLOW. existed that the two offices should be united—that where .the
offices were separate, the one that should become first vacant
should be given to the holder of the other. He had formerly
jectvery much attacked Lord Grey's Government upon this sub-
, but the course of events bad led him to r the course he
had taken. He would
remind House
in the case of
the Lord Lieutenancy of the county of Westmeath, Lord Mel-
bourne had recognised the implied compact, that the office of
Custos Rotulorum should be
given to the Lord-Li ute t and
had given that office to the Lord-Lieutenant, althoughLord-Lieutenant,
ean'
the
holder of that office •
was opposed to, Lord Melbourne's Go-
vernment. He hoped that the Government would see that.
they had been in error, and acknowledge it.
Alter a few words from the Earl ST. GERMANS in, ex,..
planation,
The Marquis of NORIIANBY Laid he regretted that, the
Government did not acknowledge the error into which as a
ley
fallen. The answer which has been given in a fore nee ease
Was, that the Lord-Lieutenant did not read the new a
ers to
furnish himself with the information alluded to. 'if rheP Lord-
Lieutenant, or those who surrounded him, hi' any better
means of acquiring information than the pul'Aie newspapers,
and they thought that it was not necessary as read them, well
And good, but if they had no better medium of furnishing them-
selves with such information, he thought that they were bound to read them. With respect to Hanejase being quoted, the
only object in doing so was because it was to that which they
all referred as an authentic record e.:l the proceedings of Parlia-
Inent. He knew not how this wetter would end, but he could
not help throwing out, for the essinsideration of her Majesty's
Government, that the Noble Lord had it now in his power to
put an end to all this public inconvenience. Care should be
taken not to permit t, be made iat9 a precedent. it