The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-05 00:00:00

Tilt 8110'N, LONDON, SATURPAY_ RvrNrivq,
_,PEBRVAIII7 8

of great importance. A party going into Com-
mittee was kept in ignorance of the nature
of the charges which were to be brought against
him, and therefore it was totally impossible for him to
have witnesses at hand who might be able to rebut
them. He might have witnesses in town, but those
he might require were perhaps absent. He thought
that in these tribunals the principle followed in the
courts of law should be adopted. Every person
brought to trial was informed of the nature of the
charge against him, and the witnesses that would be
called.
Sir G. GREY said it was not the intention of the
Government to bring in a Bill to effect the purposes
meationed by the Hon. Member. The Committees
were invested with a discretion to order costs, and if
a person applied for them they might exercise
their discretion on the subject. Great danger and
difficulty could not fail to arise if the person
entitled to costs was to be named. The reason Com-
mittees Ldid not frequently grant costs was
because they were not often applied for, as
the parties consenting to withdraw generally made
some arrangement on :,the subject. By the pre-
sent arrangements a list of the objections against
voters were given to the Committee of Elections
and the statement must be accompanied with the
heads of all the objections. The Chairmen of the
Committees were empowered to fix rules for the con-
ducting of the inquiry.
RIVER PLATE.

In reply to Mr. DISRAELI,
Lord PALMERSTON stated that two Commis-
sioners had been dispatched to the River Plate, one
on the part of France, and the other on behalf of this
country ; and, pending their negotiations, it would
Le disadvantageous to lay the various documents on
the table. When they were brought to a termination
he should have no objection to lay the correspondence
before the house.

POOR LAWS (IRELAND).
Mr. P. SCROPE wished
.to know when any
further report from the Poor-law Commissioners
of Ireland would be laid upon the table of the House,
and whether any proceedings- were being taken by the
Government, whether by indictment or otherwise,
against those parties who were opposing the proper
administration of the poor-laws in that country?
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that no time
would be lost in laying the documents referred to
before the House. With respect to the second
question, if the Hon. Member would name any de-
finite case and put a notice on the paper, he
would take care to give him an answer upon the sub-
ject.
ADJOURNED DEBATE.—SUGAR AND
COFFEE PLANTING.

Mr. J. WILSON stated that it was his intention
to confine his remarks to the subject which the
Noble Lord had in view in bringing forward the
motion. He would confine his remarks ex-
clusively to the interests of the cultivators of
sugar in the East and West Indies. He was satis-
fied to place the whole merits of the question upon
the interests of the West India planters themselves,
and the demands which they were now making for
increased protection, and the power of the Govern-
ment to afford that increased protection. The de-
mands of the West Indians might be summed up in
the language of one of the documents of the West
India body itself. Their arguments might be stated
as being four in number:—First, they said that as moral
considerations compel them to prohibit the introduction
of slave produce,so moral considerations compelled them
to prohibit slavery; secondly, that slave labour was
cheaper than free labour, and to expect them to
compete with slave labour, confining them to free
labour, wastboth unequal and unjust ; thirdly, that
the exclusion of slave-labour sugar would be a pro-
tection to the British colonial planter; and, fourthly,
that the Government had the power of so protecting
the colonies by excluding or placing a higher
rate of duty upon Brazilian sugar.—(Hear.) It
was impossible to deny that in every country the rela-
tions subsisting between the employer and the em-
ployed were daily improving. As civilization advanced
slavery disappeared. They had a proof of this in
the history of their" own country, for he need go no
further back than 30 years ago to show that the rela-
tions which then subsisted between the employer and
the employed by no means coincided with the
moral sentiments and social feelings of the present
day. But he apprehended that those conscientious
gentlemen who supported this question in that House,
and who were anxious to exclude the produce of
Cuba and Brazil, would equally object to the intro-
duction of the produce from any other coun-
try where slavery was to be found in one
shape or another. He apprehended that the principle
upon which those gentlemen took their stand would
exclude the produce of Russia from this country, for
in that kingdom slavery existed. It would be incum-
bent upon those gentlemen, if they wished to be
thought consistent, to resist the introduction of the
produce of Egypt, for there was no severer slavery to be
found in any part of the world than existed in Egypt,
nor could these gentlemen consistently allow the
produce of the United States to be introduced if
these principles were good; and the result must
be, if they were anxious to observe consistency, they
must put a stop to the trade of Russia, Egypt, the
United States, and many other countries, if they refused
to admit the slave-grown sugar of Cuba and Brazil.
The great practical question, however, they had to
consider was, the allegation that these ge:tlemen put
forward in the first instance, namely, that free
labour was dearer than slave labour: Now, in
estimating the various qualities of labour it was
difficult to tell to what extent the cost of free labour
could be reduced. For example, upon the Bristol and
Gloucester Railway, locomotive labour, which three
years ago cost 2s. 10d. per mile, at the present time
did not cost more than one shilling; so that it was
utterly impossible to determine to what extent the
cost of free labour could be reduced. But he fbund
in various letters and pamphlets that had been pub-
lished in the colonies, it was stated that in Trinidad
and the Mauritius the cost of free labour in
producing work by the piece was much less than
slave labour would have cost during the existence of
slavery in the British colonies. In referring to
the Mauritius, he found there was this striking
fact, showing that at all events, whatever distress
they might labour under, they had nothing
to complain of from free labour, for it ap-
peared that by slave labour each man pro-
duced about three quarters of a ton of sugar per
year, while of free-labour they produced one ton.
The Noble Lord alluded on the previous night to
Colonel Flinter's account of Porto Rico, and said he did
not place much confidence in that gentleman's statement
with regard to the condition of the labouring population.
He (Mr. Wilson) could say, that having referred to a
great number of other sources, he had, upon the whole,
found that gentleman's statements perfectly correct. In
the chief part of the island he stated that the cultivation
was nearly all carried on by free labourers; and accord-
ing to the census taken two years ago, in a population of
nearly 500,000, there were 180,000 white persons,
280,000 free coloured, and only 50,000 slaves; and it
could not be supposed that these 10 per cent. sufficed
for the chief cultivation of the island; so that Colonel
Flinter's statement was corroborated. But perhaps the
most conclusive evidence of the greater economy of free
labour over slave was to be found in the progress of
sugar cultivation in the east. Twenty years ago Java,
now one of the most considerable markets for the sugar
supply of Europe, barely produced as much of that
article as its own inhabitants consumed; the whole ex-
ported product in 1826 did not exceed 1,000 tons. Since
then, in open competition with Cuba and Brazil, and with
the slave labour of their own Surinam, the production
of Java had increased to 75,000 tons last year.—(Hear.)
He (Mr. Wilson) did not mean to say the labourers
in Java were freemen ' • but, as far as he could learn from
Dutch ministers who had resided officially there, they
were as free as any other labouring people in the world.
Some might call our own colliers not free, who were
bound for twelve months at a time; ho should call them
free, if, at the end of the year they had the power to
change their master.—(Hear.) A change had taken
place with respect to the cultivation of sugar, of which
few persons were probably aware, The quantity of
sugar at present produced on the continent amounted to
more than two-thirds of the whole amount produced in
our West India islands not longer than twenty years
ago. The total quantity of sugar produced on the con-
tinent at the present time was 100,000 tons, and that
production•tooli place not only in competition with slave
labour, but under other disadvantageous circumstances.
So rapidly did the home manufacture extend that the
French colonists were now crying out for protection
against the home producer, just as the latter was for-
merly accustomed to do against the planter. The pro-
duction of beet-root sugar was rapidly extending in
Germany; within the last twelve months 72 sugar manu-
factories had been established in the Zollverein. This
as
laarlicceohnmtppretotomitiicoseondntttrooowlb.ehich the West Indian interest
were
exposed,l• and which it was impossible for
PpTerhmeanceonmtpaentidtioitn,watsoora,
rapidly
onear vi,
increasing. The cultivationoapiso beet-root formed a new
branch of agriculture i
useful in the rotation (n)fcwr Europe,and it was found highly
for,l exactly in the same
way in which the turnip
proved husbandry of Scotland mthpeord in the most ap
thou
con-
tinent served partly for the foog.dro
gi et,
bti
the
eont
at
to
wheat
manufac-
turers
manufacturetvh
oueflr
fottle, and partly
he
for a fallow crop to prepare the
heat crop.
It was a remarkable fact that al
of bset-root sugar on the eontinent
soon r.s it was deprived of the highest rate of protaercietina;
duty, yet under the spur of compet n
had recourse to improved modes of manufacture,
and the consequence was that their business was rapidly
extending itself. If the West Indian interest would only
reflect upon the vast increase .whicili had taken place
in the production of sugar w last twenty
years, they would not find it t to account
for the painful position in which they were now
placed. In 1826 the whole amountest
of otfhescugaapre, pro-
ducedwas for European consumption, east
otily 21,000 ton 3. In 1847 the quantity which
Europe drew from the same quarter was 240,000 tons,
aAnd
latrgni:
quantity
increase was the produce of tree labour.
iantity of sugar was also produced now in the
United Statea, were, twenty years ago, scarcely any was
manufactured_._ Itarwtiaeseimpossible to deny that a rapid
sugar,incre me
uinst
c'lanuYse
greatl difztulbenanezlconsumption, like
in the value of pro-

perty in the old seats of the manufacture. Whether the
sugar cultivation was destined to go from the west to the
east—to go from slave labour to free labour, as had
1 appened with indigo, it was impossible for him to say ;
but at present circumstances would seem to indicate tout
such would be the ultimate result. 'Whatever sympathy
the House might entertain for the West Indian interest,
it had not the power to grant them any material relief.
In a publication devoted to the interests of the West
! Indian body a doubt had been recently started as to
' whether Java sugar could be introduced into this country
at all, and it was truly stated that a large proportion of
that sugar was produced under the superintendence of
the Government and placed at its disposal. The fact was
that out of 1,500,000 cwt. of sugar, about 1,000,000 cwt.
were at the disposal of the Government. The Dutch
Government were disposed to send their sugar to
the English market, and they had done so this year.
The Dutch Government sent out orders to Java that
some of their largest ships were to be freighted with
sugar for England and Holland ; the vessels were di-
rected to call at Cowes to ascertain if there were any
profitable orders for the English market, and if' that
should not happen to be the case the cargoes were to be
carried to Holland. Three cargoes were consigned to
the eminent house of Baring, and sold in London for
the benefit of the Dutch Government ; but when other
cargoes arrived at Cowes it was found that prices had
declined in the English market, and the ships were ac-
cordingly ordered to proceed to Holland. One of the
cargoes was purchased on speculation in May by a sugar
importer who believed that prices were then about to
rise. The speculator had not money to pay for the
cargo, but his broker lent him the sum required upon
his bill. That speculation had an important influence in
the depreciation of the price of sugar. The sugar
was bought at 335. per cwt. ; the panic came,
and the whole cargo was sold at 235. per cwt.,
being a loss of 101. per ton. Circumstances of that
nature sufficiently accounted for the unusual depre-
ciation of the price of sugar during the last three
months, without reference to the Sugar Bill of 1846.
There was another important point which ought not to
be overlooked by those who were interested in the fu-
ture welfare of the British colonies. We had thought
proper to admit refined sugar into this country at the
same relative duty as raw sugar ; but it was improbable
that either the West Indian interest or the Government
were aware, when that alteration of the law was made,
what would be its effect upon the questien of protection.
Previously to 1845 refined sugar was practically ex-
cluded by a duty of 81. Bs. per cwt. : it was now admit-
ted on the terms before stated. The Legislature had
likewise declared that all manufactured articles should
be imported into this country as the produce of the
country in which they might be manufactured. This at
once opened our ports for the reception of refilled sugar
grown in any part of the world, including the beet-root
sugar of France, Belgium, and other parts of the con-
tinent. Then, again, we had treaties with countries
which entitled them to have their produce imported
into Great Britain upon the footing of that of the
most favoured nations. Under these circum-
stances it would be impossible to exclude refined
sugar, for the process of refining made it the produc-
tion of the country in which that process took place.
According to the common commercial law of England,
we could not exclude refined sugar, the growth and pro-
duce of the country in which it was refined. The whole
of the beet- root sugar of the continent was consequently
open to us, and as there was a bounty on the export of
that sugar in the shape of a drawback equal to the duty
first imposed upon it, there was considerable inducement
to send it for consumption in this country. We had
also treaties with foreign nations, under which we are
bound to receive all sugars coming from those countries
on the same terms as the sugars of the most favoured
nations. The Dutch, therefore, might refine Cuba or
other slave-grown sugars in Holland, and send them
to us on the most favourable terms. This same thing
might take place in the United States. With these
circumstances staring the House in the face,
what hope could they hold out of excluding
by law sugars which were the produce of slave-
growing countries ? To hold out such an anticipation
would only be a snare, causing some people, perhaps,
to throw good money after bad, but of no real
benefit to the planter. It might then be asked, of what
benefit it would be to go into a Committee ? His answer
to this was, that there were many questions relating to
the West Indies which a Committee of that House might
beneficially deal with. In the first place, he believed
the social condition of our West India colonies was ex-
cessively bad. It was bad as compared even with Cuba
or l'orto Rico. In the Spanish colonies there were old
families, capitalists, and men of enterprise, interested in
the soil. Our colonies, on the other hand, were regarded
only as the means of providing funds for persons resi
dent in this country.—(Hear, hear.) In Porto Rico,
wood-roads and bridges were constructed in numbers
every year. In our colonies nothing of the kind was to
be found. In Cuba there were said to be 800 miles of
railroads ; in all our islands there were only 10 or 12
miles.—(Hear, hear.) Some eight or nine years ago,
when a proposition was made in Liverpool to make a
railway in Jamaica, not a single shilling was subscribed
to the project by any one interested in the colony.
They must admit, therefore, that there were great and
sufficient reasons why sugar should be produced cheaper
in Cuba than in our own islands. Only last week ho
saw a ship going out to Cuba, fitted with iron tanks, in
arder to bring home molasses without that leakage to
which casks exposed them. He believed that not a
single ship had ever sailed to any one of our own islands
so fitted. This was evidence of superior energy and
zeal on the part of Cuba merchants.—(Hear, hear.)
With regard to other points, he thought that the West
Indian colonists had been unnecessarily trammelled as to
the matters relating to their labourers. They had not
been allowed to take the necessary steps for the repres-
sion of vagrancy in Trinidad. There were twenty
millions of acres of waste grown lands. Why, the
strictest regulations ought to have been adopted to pre-
vent the vagrancy and squatting which had taken place
upon these lands.—(Hear, hear.) One of the means by
which Porto Rico was reclaimed so rapidly as it was,
was by stringent laws against vagrancy. Then, as to
immigration. lie thought that the greatest facilities
ought to be given to the planters to import such labour
as they might require. But it was one thing to open
such facilities, and another thing to lend or give them
money to carry out such a project.—(Hear, hear.)
In the one case there was an assurance that immigration
would never take place except when it was wanted ; in
the other the probabilities were that the money would be
squandered. But look at the extent to which immigra-
tion must be carried in order to produce any benefit to
the West Indies. Why, in order to raise Trinidad even
to the same standard of population as Jamaica, no less
than 1,079,000 labourers must be imported.—(Hear,
hear.) Notwithstanding all that had been said, he did
hope and believe that the West Indies were in an im-
proving condition. His advices from Guiana assured
him that a better spirit was springing up between the
employers and employed, that they were beginning to
feel that they had a mutual interest, and that the crops
were considerably increasing. What cause then was
there for despair ? If he found, as he did in Mauritius,
that the charges of the colony were no less than 61. on
each ton of sugar it produced, why of course he con-
cluded that such charges must come down, if countries
that produced cheaper were to be competed with. But
this was not a question of protection ; and regarding.
the alterations necessary in the colonies as alterations
which a Committee would well consider, he, with every
hope of future colonial prosperity, should cordially give
the motion his support.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. T. BARING commenced by saying that nothing,
he thought, could be more distressing to the planters
than to hear the contrast which the Hon. Gentleman
had just drawn between the prosperity of Cuba, with
its eight hundred miles of railroads, and the ruin of our
colonies, without a public work progressing within their
boundaries ! What a lamentable state of things to re-
flect upon; what a responsibility for the British Govern-
ment to encounter ! The Hon. Member had referred to
the beet-root sugar, but the growers of beet-root sugar
had had to encounter none of those obstacles which had
been thrown in the way of the other sugar growers.
He repudiated the imputation of reckless expenditure'
and wild speculation so generally advanced against our
West India planters. The whole course of their specu-
lations had been directed and regulated by that le-
gislation at home on which they had so eallaciously
relied. He adduced a series of figures to show that
while in the price of our sugars there had been
a ruinous reduction since the Bill of 1846, in that
of the sugars of Cuba and Porto Rico there had
been, not merely no fall, but a rise. 'rho Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman had referred to the failure of the
Barbadoes Bank as accounting for much of the distress
there, but, making every allowance for other possible
circumstances in relation to the management of the
bank, there could be no doubt that the failure of the
bank must have been mainly attributable to the deprecia-
tion of the property of its customers, arising from the
injustice they had experienced under the Act of 1846.
As to the suggested repeal of the navigation laws, he
considered that any such measure could only be bene-
ficial to our colonies, by making it special to those colo-
nies, for if you extended the benefit of such repeal to
the foreign sugar-growing colonies, our own would be
no better off than they were now. The Right. Hon.
Baronet had favoured them with many extracts from
pamphlets; he would have taken a course far more
satisfactory to the House and to the country, if he had
produced rather the information derived from the facts
and suggestions and remarks contained in the dispatches
of the various colonial governors. What the colonies
wanted was the observance to them of good faith, the re-
storation to them of that credit and that capital which the
Bill of 1846 had robbed them of, while it had added in a
marked manner to the capital and credit of the rival
slave-labour colonies. He feared that the Right Hon.
Gentleman did not fully appreciate the state of things
in our colonies. The Right lion. Gentleman seemed to
think that the whole difficulty might he obviated by
sending out agents such as Mr. Price. What had been
the effect of Mr. Price's agency in 1847? Why, that
on the particular estate he managed he expended
18,0001. in the proluction of sugar worth 7,00 E, or at
the utmost 8,0001. The want of capital in the colonies
arising from the almost entire destruction of credit was
such, that it was extremely doubtful whether this year's
crop could be realised, and still more doubtful whether
the plantations next year could be cultivated at all. The
proposition that our planters had been compensated by
the grant made to them in 1833 was wholly fallacious.
True, the ostensible amount was twenty millions—a sum
bespeaking the generous intentions of the people of this
country; but let it be recollected that all the present gene-
ration paid was the interest upon this money, posterity
being left to pay, the capital. It was infinitely worth
tt
ues whileplanters of the
to
pay West
the
Indiahe
interest planters
o f th
this
snmd
money
etyheoniNcroanudrii:
industry
sotfry being
unshackledres.t)r e restored tyo
theth-hteirnaipgndotelseirirkstfieeone
interference
e exercisingof t
he m ptheir
l
foreign
unablere
eg
gs lna
ttou
.r— planter. a n
compete n:
rt
Oehnr
ef eafrnreeynetce which rendered them wholly
ei,mvistleiltvhees
would equal
find termsth
wholly nustakea if they based the test of their princi•

pies on what they call free trade in sugar, but which was
by no means free trade, wanting those elements of re-
in
crocal advantage which themselves had held forth as
theL primary feature of the principle. Even the result of
cheapness, which they urged as a recommendation of
the measure of '46, they could by no means rely upon
the permanency of. Refuse to retrieve the ruin of our
own planters, throw the market into the hands of the fo-
reign growers, and how long were we to depend upon
the supply of cheap sugar ? But were our own planters
to submit, year after year, to this oppression, until at
length it utterly prostrated them to the earth ? On
what principle were they to be expected to yield unre-
sistingly to all the diastrous effects of free trade, while
the benefits, whatever they might be, of that free trade
were felt wholly by the mother country? How long
was their allegiance to endure the test of the most
monstrous injustice, unalleviated by the least glimpse of
reparation? He had no personal interest, not to the I
extent of a penny, in any sugar-growing estate, in any
colony, but he was earnestly alive, not simply to the
permanent interests of his country, but to the preserva-
tion of its honour and its honesty.
Mr. BERNAL said it was his unfortunate position to I
disagree with much said on his side, and to agree with
what had been said on the other side of the House.
lie disclaimed all connexion with any other party re-
specting
the question of the West Indies, but wished to
be considered as expressing opinions peculiarly his own,
and the responsibility of which lay at his door. He
thought that the pictures drawn of the state of Cuba
were suicidal, in so far as they tended to make against
slavery; for all the great improvements in that island,
its railroads, its bridges, its cultivation, were the produce
of slave labour. He gave the Noble Lord the
Member for Lynn full credit for sincerity in his
views; but he must take leave to say that, in his
opinion, the proposed Committee would do no good.
Who that recollected the two co-existing Committees on
the West Indies and the west coast of Africa, which sat
at the same time and ancillary as it were to each other,
but would admit, from an examination of the blue books,
that no result could come from them? If the West
Indies were, as he believed, suffering, was this the sort
of relief they wished for? He had never been a Pro-
tectionist; and when he found the British agriculturist
was set free, he could not consent to bind the West
Indian labourers. He had been very much disappointed
by the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who
had expressed his desire not to say anything harsh to-
wards the West Indians, but who had ended by collecting
all sorts of taunts against them from anonymous and
authenticated pamphlets. When his Right Hon. Friend
asked why more expenditure in labour and machinery had
not been made on the West Indies, he would reply that
the most unencumbered estates there could not work them-
selves at a profit; and how could ho expect improve-
ments could be made at an increased expenditure, when
not one shilling could be borrowed even on the unin-
cumbered property in the West Indies ? The Right
Hon. Gentleman bad neither acted consistently with his
principles, nor with justice to the West Indian proprie-
tors. Sundry taunts had been uttered towards the
%Vest Indians, such as the 20,000,000/., and the closing
of the account with them. \Vhon the negro was offered
increased employment at more wages, he laughed at the
idea, for his produce always enabled him to gain as
much as he required. If the West Indians put into cul-
tivation a certain number of acres for producing garden
stuff, the negro would not be able to gain so much, and
would consequently be obliged to work to make up the
difference. But what he wished to ask was, why the
producer of sugar at Jamaica and Berbadoes should be
obliged to pay a duty any more than a Yorkahireman,
who brought his potatoes to the port of London. If
ho were told that the West Indies were an expense
he would reply, that so were the British and
Scottish islands, and therefore, on the principle of
free trade, he contended that a man sending
his sugar from Jamaica had as much right
to send it free as the farmer from Lothian.
If the Government for purposes of revenue chose to put
a duty on foreign colonial sugars, that was another
question; but what he claimed was a freee admission of
British 'West India sugars to consumption here in the
same way that Irish and Scotch provisions and corn were
admitted. The depreciation of West India property at
present was such, that properties entirely unincumbered
would neither let nor sell. In the islami with which he
syss connected a magnificent farming property, formerly
producing 1,2001. a year clear, would neither let tor 3401.
a year, nor sell for 4,000/. This was the result of the
enthusiasm which had carried slave emancipation at a
blow. Look at the serfdom of England, was that
changed in a day, or even after a battle of 25 years ?
No. It was the gradual operation of centuries; and
yet the West Indians were now taunted, after seeing
their colonies revolutionised by the sudden emanci-
pation of their serfs or slaves, with not having re-
sorted to the agricultural improvements. He believed
that the result of the present discussion would
be, that the packets which took out the news of
the appointment of the Committee would also carry
letters ordering the abandonment of estates in the West
Indies. As to the relief expected from the Colonial-
office, he must say that he had never gone there, because
he knew by experience that nothing was ever got by the
%Vest Indians except a polite bow, and some general ad-
vice that there ought to be a resident proprietary. As
for the complaints made, that energy and and experi-
ment in cultivating the estates were altogether wanting,
he could only say that he,in the course of his own experi-
ence, bad made very considerable efforts by sending out
cultivators, amongst whom was a Yorkshireman; and
yet, though his estate was not incumbered to the value
of a shilling, he had not only not derived any income
from it, but had been obliged to make an outlay in order
to keep it in cultivation. As to the vaunted superio-
rity in point of crystallisation of foreign sugars, he
defied any colony, slave or otherwise, to produce
better sugar than, under favourable circumstances,
could be shipped from the West Indies. With
respect to the class of labourers to be employed,
the various questions as to the relative value of
krooinen, coolies, or Chinese, were well worthy of the
consideration of the Government; he believed, however,
himself that the House of Assembly, at Jamaica, would
never consent to grant any money to pay for the expense
of immigration to that island of a body of kroomen or
Chinamen to compete with the negroes and creoles in
the labour market there. Why, the very amount re-
quired to pay the passage of men from the north coast
of China would startle any merchant who should receive
an application for a loan for that purpose from a Jamaica
planter. If the country, however, did not think the
colonies worth the sacrifice demanded in their favour, it
was useless fur him to contend one minute longer, or to
do more than to relieve his mind by stating his opinions
on the subject.
Mr. HEYWOOD entered into some details with
respect to the statistics of cotton and other exports
from this country, quoted by the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for Lynn in the course of his speech, in order to
show the inaccuracy of those statements. He expressed
his ereat anxiety to see the experiment of emancipation
succeed.
Mr. BAGSHAW said that when he first went out to
India, in 1317, the whole of that vast population was
clothed by the manufactures of their own country ; but
ten years afterwards the influx of British cottons was
such as completely to supersede all the native manufac-
tures. There was no East India sugar then admitted,
for a differential duty was levied which prevented them
from entering into competition with West India sugars;
and this duty of Bs. per cwt. was continued up to 1834-5.
Deputation succeeded deputation in praying the Minis-
ter to equalise the duties, and at last that was done, but
it was only granted in consequence of the difficulties
under which the East Indians existed. In 1836 the
Bill for equalising duties on East and West India sugar
passed, and ten years after the East Indians seat to
this country no less than 72,000 tons of sugar. He
would venture to say that there never was in
the world, in such a time, such a develop-
ment of the resources of a country. But we taxed
their produce at the rate of one hundred per cent.,
while the East Indians took our produce, subject to
a duty of three per cent. At present India was in
a deplorable state, but it was not from ever-specula-
tion; it had all been caused by the conduct of the Mau-
ritius, that model colony, of which Mr. Hawes had fold
so much on the last day of last session. The factitious
prosperity of that colony had been all created with
Indian capital.—(Hear, hear.) He, as an old East
Indian merchant, was a free-trader, and he contended
that the trade of India and of the tropics should get the
same relaxations which had relieved the corn trade in
the mother country. What they had done for the land-
lords of this country they were bound to do for the co-
lonists, or, if they did not, then destruction must be the
result, and consequently the haudiog over of our sugar
trade to the slave-growing colonies of other countries.
He only asked what it was just to give—namely, such
a distinctive duty as would put our free colonists on a
par with their slave-growing neighbours, and afford a
protection equivalent to that which distance gave to the
British farmer. He hoped for no benefit from a Corn.
mittee; he had had the misfortune to sit on one for three
long years, and he knew that nothing could be more
futile or ridiculous than to expect anything from their
labours.—(A laugh.) The Committee to which ho al-
luded was one on the affairs of the Cape; they recom-
mended many fine measures, but the present state of
the colony showed how little had been done.—(Hear.)
He did not mean to move any amendment, but if he had
done so, it would have been one for a Committee of the
whole House to consider the sugar duties.
Mr. DISRAELI said he would endeavour to put this
question in its true light, and to divest it, as far as pos-
sible, of all mere secondary considerations. The real
political problem which they were called upon to solve
was this :—Whether the new commercial system which
had so lately been tried upon one great branch of our
imperial industry had not been completely and lament-
ably found wanting ?—(Hear, hear.) They were called
upon to adjudicate respecting a great branch of our im-
perial industry, which was prosperous when we first
began to apply to it the principles of our new system,
which was now so no longer, and which, when it called
out for assistance received no answer but the dry de-
velopment of a cold abstraction.—(lleac, hear.) There
was an interest which, perhaps, in all its relations, re-
presented no less than two hundred nei'llions of capital.
Even the Government, as well as their amateur advo-
cates, admitted that that capital was in danger. They
did not question the peril, but how did they account
for it ? They did not attribute it to their free-trade
measures, which, if they had been as successful as
was anticipated, would have left him a very
weak cause indeed to defend. Then he might have
heard that if our islands in the Gulf of Mexico were all
lost in the waves which surround them, the new system
would amply repay us for the loss. But, unfortunately,
we were not in a position to justify such an assertion. It
could not be pretended that any of the free- trade mea-
sures had brought about such results as would compen-
sate for the state of society they had created—a state of
suffering he believed unprecedented in ancient or modern
history. The present system had been baptised with a
name which in his opinion it never deserved. It had
been culled a reconstruction of the commercial system of

this country on the principle of emancipated trade. 9
They had been told to expect great results. He denied
the soundness of the principle on which it was founded ;
he denied that they had reconstructed their commercial
system on the principles of free trade. The principle
upon which they had acted was, that of buying in the
cheapest market. That was not the true principle of
commerce. Commerce, they were told by the pelitico-
economic writers, was barter. How often, during the
early years of his attendance in that House, when the
fatal principle like a snail was beginning to emerge from
its shell, had he been told with scoffing, that commerce
was only barter ? How could they reconcile that doc-
trine with the fatal principle which they were now pur-
suing—the principle of purchasing in the cheapest mar-
ket? Why that principle was only fit for retail trade.—
(" Oh.") But unfortunately although retail in principle,
it was not retail in its effect. Its effects were wholesale,
it was not retail—in ruins.—(" Oh, oh.") Nobody would
deny the fact that our colonies were in a most perilous
position.—(Year, hear.) They were not so in 1846, after
all the interference, all the patching up which their affairs
had undergone. After their interests had been made
the very harridan of party, the energies and capital of
Englishmen enabled them to brave the storm, until the
I fatal legislation of 1346. He had taken some part in
the debates of that year, and he recollected well how
great was his surprise and disappoietment to find an
' Honourable Friend of his, the Chairman of the India
Company, supporting the measures of Government.
He remembered well his Honcrurable Friend saying
that the British capitalists who had invested
in India were nut in the least afraid of the Govern-
ment measures ; and that statement had a vast
effect on the House. He (Mr. Disraeli) had followed his
Hon. Friend, and had told him that he did not mean to
question his testimony as to the British capitalists; but
he reminded him of the important consideration that the
cultivation of India was carried on by two classes; that
was to say, English capitalists, who had been induced by
our legislation to invest their funds, and also by the ryot
population, with whom sugar was the only unrestricted
article of cultivation. He had told hls Hon. Friend that
cotton and arrack were monopolies, and that sugar wits
the only privileged cultivation of the Indian ryots. Ile
had had !'ratters sent to him by men of high consideration
and authority on Indian affairs—among the rest by
Dwarkanath Tagore, which showed that the only hope-
ful speculation for India was to promote the cultivation
of sugar. He had read to the House the correspondence
of eminent persons who had since fallen, Imes, Imes,
pracipites to show that the cultivation of sugar had
sprung up in every district. He had shown also that
coincident with the increase of sugar cultivation in
India our exports to that country had increased, and that
that increase mainly consisted of goods required by the
lowest class of the population. Ile had shown that the
consumers of our goods were no longer exclusively the
wealthy and powerful, but that the humble cultivator
took in exchange for his anger turbans and robes of our
manufacture, thus increasing our exports to the extent
of two millions. He now asked whether the present state
of that country had been well considered ?—(llear, hear.)
He need not dwell on the condition of the capitalists, for
whom the Hon. Member for Beverley had stood bail.
Every one knew what had been the termination of their
career—that they had disapp, arcd from the commercial
world, but surely the condition of the ryots was worthy
of some consideration.—(Hear, hear.) They had shown
the effects of our policy, by ceasing to be the purchasers
of our goods. Again, what had been the effect of our
policy on the Mauritius, where the amount of compen-
sation, 2,600,0001., and the labour of 60,000 labourers
had been sunk ? He would not enter into details ; but
he held a document in his hand, drawn up by one eecs,nd
to none in honour and intelligence on this subject, once
a Member of that House, and who, from fatal expe-
rience. knew the history of the Mauritius, :which
would tell in two lines the effect of the policy. of
1846. After the investment of the compensation
money, the import, expense, and maintenance of coolies,
and additional capital, to the amount in all of 4,600,0001,
—after the most unprecedented energy and enterprise,
the consequence had been utter and complete ruin. But
that was not the worst or the bitterest consequence. A
more bitter consequence was, that the men who had for
years filled a high position in that House, teen of great
practical ability and high honour, were now held up to
public scorn and contumely, as men devoid of principle,
as rash speculators, whose over-trading had met no
more than its just reward—in their ruin ; and that
which was the consequence of bad legislation was
charged to their own capacity. He recollected they had
been told that India had no slaves, and that that the
Mauritius had no slaves, and, therefore, those places, at
all events, had no cause to c mplain ; but, without
giving any opinion as to the \Vest Indies, to the consi-
deration of whose position he was approaching, he would
observe in passing, that of all our mistakes none had
been more grievous or more fatal in its consequences
than our commercial conduct towards India, and that
nothing had been more bitter or heartrending than our
treatment of the Mauritius.—(Hear, hear.) Now, with
regard to the condition of the West Indies, no one
doubted the condition to which our policy had reduced
those islands. The Hon. Member for Westbury, who
had scarcely touched the great question under conside-
ration, had stated in dulcet tones his conviction that as
regarded the West Indies the gain had been all our
own—asd added that we must, if necessary, sweeten
our tea with beet-root sugar. He remembered when
it was said that beet-root sugar was the
creature of protection, and that for a nation
to depend upon it was to outrage every principle of
the political economy club. Now, however, they were
told by the oracle of political economy that beet root
sugar must if necessary supersede all other sugar, and
that even slave•grown sugar must fall before beet-root
sugar. Well, the peril to the colonies being admitted,
what was the course of the Government?—what were
the remedies proposed? The Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had announced some measures which Ministers
proposed for remedying in some degree the condition he
deplored, and had announced them at the end of a speech
the whole object of which was to prove that no remedial
measures would have any effect. The Right lion.
Gentleman had stated that he could not flatter himself
that his measures would satisfy the West India body.
He (Mr. Disraeli) concurred with him, and would not,
therefore, dwell on his suggestions, except as the repre-
sentative of an English constituency, living in an age of
economy, and trembling for the budget which had been
announced as shortly to make its appearance, to declare
his unqualified opposition to the vote of 200,0001.,
which the Right Honourable Gentleman had stated
he meant to propose. If he thought that vote
would cure the evils of the colony, he would
not offer any objection ; but he had no
idea of encouraging that loose habit in public men of
extricating themselves from difficulties brought on by
their own want of caution by votes of the public money.
—(Hear, hear.) But could they spare 200,0001. from
the Exchequer at this time? If they could, the business
of the House was not to vote it away according to the
suggestions of the Minister in distress, bat rather to
ascertain in what way they could apply it to the best
advantage. If they had that amount in surplus, they
might devote it to the pulling down the National Gallery
and building a better—(Hear, and a laugh)—but to ex-
pend it in sending a certain number of negroes to the
West India colonies would be of no effect in rescuing the
colonial interest from the peril in which it was placed,
and would therefore be a mere useless application of
the public funds. The law of 18-16 was proposed as a
law of regeneration, the effect of which was to be to
throw capital into the colonies, to accumulate labour
in those districts in which it was deficient, and to
terminate all those questions of colonial distress of
which so much had been heard during that period of
painful transition through which the colonies were
passing. But had the result been such as to inspire
confidence in the Minister who brought forward and
carried that law, or to show that they had studied
the subject, and were so well informed upon it, that
they were entitled to be the guides and leaders of the
Legislature in respect to it ? His Noble Friend (Lord
G. Bentinck) had referred to a speech made at the close
of last session by the Under-Secretary for the Colonies,
which was valuable as showing the knowledge, the
opinions, and the prospects of the Government on the
subject at the close of the year 1846. That that Hon.
Gentleman was not now a Member of the House no
one regretted more sincerely than he slid ; for he knew
no man who combined lucid intelligence with practical
business habits to a greater extent than Mr Hawes.—
(Hear, hoar.) He looked on Mr. ilawes's opinion,
therefore, as valuable, not merely as expressing the
views of the Government, but as expressing views
farmed on the mature consideration of a practical and
intelligent mind. His Noble Friend, the Member for
Lynn, had presented a petition which called forth from
Mr. Hawes the following remarks :—" The Noble Lord
had confined his attention to the West India ialands ;
but let him turn to the Mauritius, and he would find
that there the greatest prosperity was manifest, and
that the production of sugar had immensely in-
creased
satisfied that a system of free trade and open competi-
tion would be most beneficial for all parties concerned ;
that it would lead to greater economy of production, be
the means of embarking more capital in the growth and
manufacture of sugar, and tend to the general prospe-
rity of the whole population." He quoted this to show
what the knowledge of the Government on the subject
really was. What was the answer to this ? The fail-
ure of every firm of importance connected with India
or the Mauritius—Cabinet Councils held four times a
week, and the Bank Charter virtually repealed,. while
the Chancellor of the Exchequer was vomiting forth a
protest against his own acts.—(Hear, hear.) He now
came to the secret and inuendo remedies suggested, in
order to prevent the utter destruction of the colonialin-
terest. The Chancellor of the Exchequer last night had
favoured the House with those remedies. Ten minutes
lie had devoted to molasses and emigration, and that
happy idea of curing those deep seated evils by a loan
less than the Government would propose to expend on
one wing of the House of Commons ; and then he de-
votede
have
n7t bt
;i t:
remember
eo(mlifl urbetlehlarerl :tohphuerreeaNsareno.:dbt
eao:Lvehoaeasrl
with that
(saidtuheaht
t girmere
regret),
inr explanationie(oit
)no
when
expres-
sion enh
remedies—and hero they were. The first was concoe-
ce
aawNns
eosnubmoml :ale:
:Lee
wot irdethlat
somethingghsert
eea:t'oeiN First atht
in
which
Ileicsitati4iynGs ofitltteohortasTitint
pv thnoheyrent
wCt
hahryeoo
swipesrn a
cabto-icu
Gen-
tleman) heard of that before. I well remember the
interests(whose
which so well becomes him, and which he never
atilt;
influence the country or the assembly he addresses—
saying that he had every hope and confidence that the
means by which the colonies would be enabled, not to
extricate themselves from their difficulties, for they were
not then involved in them, but to meet the dangers
with which they were threatened—and which wo stated
must come—was competition; and it is somewhat sin-
gular that, whenever the Government are told that great
colonies are going to ruin, or that great interests are
suffering from our legislation, the Government inva-
riably come forward with remedies which, when
examined, turn out to be not facts but phrases—and if

IA4A.

. r,. ~.

not phrase's, mere abstract theories. Competition Is the
rem qty. But what is meant by competition—whet
Wang is it--se what sex—whether it he a god or a derni
eod—whether a naiad cr dryad—we know nothing.
Competition says one, enterprise says another. Thes
are the remedies, and this is the staple of all their
speeches.—(Hear. hear.) The shipping interest is le
decline, competition will restore it; the colonies are in
despair, enterprise will restore them to prosperity ;
agriculture is suffering, enterprise is all that is required.
—(Hear, hear.) The whole speech of the Right Hon.
Gentleman last night, following that of the Prime Mi-
nister in 1846—couched in the same phrase, and mo-
delled in the same form—was the same competition.
But what we want is for the Government to inform us
what they mean by competition. I always understood
that competition meant that between the rivals there
should be equal circumstances. But are the circum-
stances equal between an English colony under our
present system of legislation, and a Spanish colony
under the legislation of that country? The difference
between the two the historian might describe thus: that
in the Spanish colony there was abundance of labour,
for which they paid nothing, and in the English co-
lony there was a want of labour, for which they
paid a great deal. 'Where, then, is the competition,
and where the equal circumstances which should be
the basis of a just competition 2—(Hear, hear.) But it
is always so. The moment you attempt to regulate
your conduct by abstract principles, and depart from
those abstract principles, you are involved in inextricable
confusion. A sage with whom we are all familiar tells
us that practice is the best proof of theory, and that ex-
perience is always confounding the theories of men.
I know of no better proof of the truth of this than the
consequences of the competition we have created be-
tween the English and the Spanish colonies. In the
exact proportion in which the labour of the Spaniards,
for which nothingis paid, is brought into competition
with the labour of the Englishman, for which he pays a
great deal, you are, in fact, enacting a differential duty
in favour of the Spaniard.—(Hear, hear.) You are
establishing protection—not for the Englishman, but
f it the Spaniard.—(Hear, hear.) The free-trade party
and the free trade-Government, after all their wonder-
ful promises and astounding achievements, terminate
their career by establishing protective duties in favour
of the Brazils, Cuba, and Porto Rico. This is the con-
sequence of governing by a phrase, instead of by a
fact. Competition as between Lancashire and Wilt-
shire I can understand ; but as between Cuba and
Jamaica, under the circumstances which exist, it
is a mere word, invented only for DsWning street and
St. Stephen's—(Cheers)—as tulle/reuse for men giving
thoughtless votes, which some day they would remember
with a bitterness of reminiscence which the hustings
only would recal. Sophocles had said that opinion was
stranger than truth, but it was only for a short time,
and gentlemen who came to that House confident in the
power of progress should recollect that upon that sub-
ject the history of England would not offer an embla-
zoned page. Indeed, he doubted if the history of any
country could show so much injustice to the national in-
terests at so great a cost as the abolition of slavery by
the English people; and he attributed it to their having
entered upon such an enterprise without a sufficient
knowledge of the subject. It was a topic which was
calculated to excite most benevolent feelings of
humanity, which ultimately bore parties to political
power. It was thought that if these results were
achieved the fallacy would never be detected. But the
course of time had shown it to be the greatest
political blunder of the English people, who, in
pandering to the ambition of great men, had not
only injured a great people, bat sacrificed, perhaps
ruined, a noble appendage to the empire, and stimulated,
not perpetuated, slavery in every part of the world
in which it was known.—(Hear, hear.) But the appeal
on behalf of the colonists of this country was met by
another class of objections from another class of great
men, who came forward, cheered by the school of Man-
chester, relying urn the energy of their constituents,
and fortified with details. The Right Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Manchester had often called their at-
tention to the practical evils of the system, and parti-
cularly to the danger of our commerce, with what he
called the great Brazilian empire. Ile (Mr. Disraeli)
reminded him in 1846 (going no further back) that the
population of Brazil was not more considerable than halt
the population of London, and that the rest consisted of
3,500,000 slaves—a society which certainly could not
stand in comparison with English colonies for civilise
Lion, or for commerce either. And now he wanted to
know from the Right lion. Gentleman, who was the
apostle of the principle of buying in the cheapest mar-
ket, and who ably represented the capital of commer-
cial fallacies—(Laughter)—what had been the result
of sacrificing our commerce with our English colonies
for our commerce with Brazil ? His own opinion on
the subject did not rest upon mystical statistics,
but was derived from what Dr. Johnson called a bit
of truth—time and experience, and it was this,
that there was not a third-rate colony belonging to
England that would not in the long run have been a
better customer; for, although less might have been
taken, it would have been better paid for. He wished
to know what it was that supported the industry of
Manchester? lie observed that day that the home trade
was improving, but he heard nothing of great orders
from Brazil, or that her 3,500,000 slaves had changed
their blue shirts for the trappings of Caciques. There
had been n fair trial of commercial enterprise with that
colony, stimulated by all the eloquence of the Anti-
Corn-law League orators ; but it had signally failed,
although it was practically and completely to have ob-
tained for us the great commerce of the great Brazilian
empire. It was nothing more on the part of those
orators than to palm on the people of England that they
were in favour of free trade, when really they were only
attempting to purchase in the cheapest market. And
thus, notwithstanding all they had said about competi-
tion, energy, and enterprise, and notwithstanding that
machinery to the value of nearly 1,000,0001. had
been exported to these colonies, tho Brazilian trade
turned out to be, as told them by an Honourable
Gentleman opposite, but a poor trade after all. That
England enjoyed cheap
.sugar was no doubt a great
fact, and although it might not suffice to console a
suffering people, it bore the character of a practical
result. But would any Member of that House contend
that, if our colonies were to be subjected to this great
injury, we should have any security for the enjoyment of
cheap sugar ? Their colonies , produced 250,000 tons,
and surely no one could deny that the total disappearance
of that quantity from the markets of the world would
have the effect of greatly increasing the price. Suppose
we were prepared to encounter that, then was he
prompted to ask, if cheap sugar was of such great ne-
cessity to this country, would we not be obliged to have
it produced by slaves in English colonies?
But, ad-
mitting that we could not retrace our steps in that re-
speet,which he denied, we must then purchase it in
those countries which produced it at the cheapest cos' ; and
what, he would ask, wonld be the consequence of the
sudden investment of our capital in such a purchase?
We knew what were the effects of the investment of a
few millions in corn, owing to a bad harvest. But what
must they be when our colonies ceased
i to produce—
when the consumption of this country increased—and
when the demand for capital throughout the world was
for investment in slave-grown sugar? Nobody would
ever be compelled to consume slave-grown sugar, but a
disturbance would be created in our monetary system,
producing a convulsion which our descendants would
rue, and which they would doubtless trace to the
short-sighted and unprincipled legislation which
had so long distinguished this subject It was
a remarkable fact that all the calculations
of the advocates of that legislation had resulted in
the failure of the merchants and the bankruptcy of the
colonies. It they converted the Senate into a counting-
house, it would not be long before the nation degenerated
into a factory. Was it important to keep the colonies?
lie could not suppose that if they ceased to be flourish-
ing customers, this country would be content to main-
tain them as mere barrack garrisons. It had been said
by one lion. Member that this country might part with
her colonies for a consideration.—(Bear, hear.) True
there had beers countries as proud and powerful as Eng-
land that had for pecuniary considerations parted with
their colonies Sp- sin had in that manner sold the
Fleridas, and even the great Napoleon, influenced by the
same omnipotent duty which now ruled the occupants of
the Government benches, had sold for a consideration
the beautiful province—the United States ; and there-
fore he (elr. Disraeli) thought that if the commerce of
the colonies and the blessings of peace could be
secured by the same school of economy, this country
might do something in the same was with the same
effects.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He saw no
reason why this might not be the case, though he
had been told that a desperate deputation had lately
waited upon the Prime Minister of this country,
and had asked the Noble Lord whether any objection
existed to the colonies changing their allegiance. To
this query no answer had been given,
but perhaps a
Cabinet Council might be called to consider it—(Hear,
and a laugh)—and the wretched colony of Trinidad
might again belong to the powers which gave to it its
sacred name—the miserable Mauritius, a flourishing
community when belonging to
.France,might be returned
to its former possessors ; tor it would be worse than
the realisation of the fable of the dog and the manger
for this country to retain either to their absolute ruin.—
(Hear, hear.) Besides, even Jamaica seemed an incum-
brance—if so, the United States would gladly accept the
possession of her, if offered.—(Hear, hear.) lie knew
not whether the Hon. Member fur the West Riding of
Yorkshire (Mr. Cobden) was in the House.—(A voice—
" He is below the bar.") He (Mr. Disraeli) was glad to
hear that the Hon. Member was present, for he wished
to remind the Hon. Member, thealthough the profound
peace which he had announced might come within the
time of those who heard him, still there was something
in the catastrophes of nations scevior arnris—catastrophes
from other causes leading to their decay. Happily in
those causes the limited experience of the Roman em-
pire had not included the rapacity of rival industry and
the quackery of economic science.—(Hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE rose, and said that although he
felt it to be his duty to ask the House to permit bins to
make a few observations before the debate came to a
conclusion, he had-no desire to protract his remarks to
any length. He felt that the speech of his Right lion,
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer so clearly and
ably defined and explained the views and intentions of
the Government, in reference to this subject, asto leave
him (Mr. Labouehere) but little to add to his Right
Hon. Friend's statements and arguments. Still, how-
ever, without going over the grounds already so familiar
to the House, he conceived that such was the import-
ance of the question, and such his official position and
connexion with the Government, that it would not be
presuming in him to offer some observations upon the
debate which had already taken place. It was not his
intention to enter into a discussion upon the abstract or
general principles of free trade. He assumed that he
was addressing a House of Commons prepared to adopt
free trade as a principle, that ought to regulate the fu-
ture commerce of this mighty empire. Ho believed
that such was the case, not because the 'louse was pro-

pared to consider the Interests of the lowest of their
constituents, or to betray those whom they were bound
in duty to protect, but because they believed that in
troth ad interests were identical, and that the principles
of free trade were the best, not only for England, but for
all other portions of this glorious empire.—(Hear.)
If the House was disposed to retrace its steps, it could
not take any more fitting occasion for now re-enacting
the principle of protection to the West Indies, because
he admitted with pain, that if deep and extreme distress
could constitute a claim for such a course of legislation.
that claim was at present possessed by that portion of
the colonial empire. True it was that the cry of distress
had proceeded on many former occasions from the
West Indian colonies. It had been raised under the
operation of slavery—it had been raised since slave
emancipation, and, in fact, it had ever since been
urged upon the House and the country. He would not
enter into the question whether or not the distress
was now more severe than it had been on any former
occasion. All that it was necessary for him to admit
was, that the distress existing was in reality severe, and
that it was the duty of the Government without delay
to apply remedies of relief which should be beneficial to
the colonies themselves,:and at the same time consistent
with the general interests of the community.—(Hear,
hear.) It happened that the motion now in the hands
of the Speaker did not involve the question really to be
discussed. The motion was, in fact, for the appoint•
ment of a Committee to inquire into the present post-
lion of the West India islands and the other colonial
possessions. With regard to that question, be did not
know what course the Noble Lord the Member for
Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck) meant to pursue. Many lion.
Members had said that it would be better not to press
the motion; but if the Noble Lord thought fit to do so,
the Government would lend their aid in the investigation
with a view to the general benefit of the whole commu-
nity employed within the dominions of the Crown.
lowever, he must say that the course proposed by the
Noble Lord was not one which the Government
would have originated, but following prece-
dents on which inquiry had been granted when
any distressed interest, whether the agricultural, the
shipping, or the domestic, required it, he should be
sorry to refuse it to those representing the interests of
the colonial possessions of this country. But although
such was the present motion, the real question at issue
was, whether or not the principle of protection should
be continued in the West Indies as a remedy for their
distress. To that question he thought the Government
was bound to give an explicit answer, and not to hold
language calculated to create any uncertainty; and it was
because the Government believed that protection would
not really be beneficial, even if it could be granted in
such a way as to be secure, that the Government felt
bound to declare its opinion. In the first place, trade
never could flourish under a system liable to constant
changes, and alterations, and uncertainty. The Legis-
lature having come to a final settlement of the sugar
question, it was now asked to prolong protection for
some indefinite period, to reverse its decision over and
over again expressed, and to involve the colonies
in confusion and doubt. Honourable Gentlemen
had taken various grounds. Some asked for
protection for the producer of British colonial sugar
against all foreign grown sugar. The West India body
themselves had asked for protection against all slave-
labour sugar, stating that they could keep their position
against foreign free-labour sugar. Now it was curious
to observe that in the memorial of the West India pro-
ducers, in which they stated that they could not culti-
vate the land except under a protection of 10s. per cwt.,
they did not eels for a differential duty as a permanent
system, but only for such a period as would enable then
to become fully supplied with free labour. This request,
therefore, assumed that they could successfully compete
with Cuba and the Brazils if fair play was given to
them, and they could obtain an adequate supply of free
labour. He was glad to see this admission coming
from such a quarter, as it was valuable as a contra-
diction to those who bade the West India colonists
despair. On the question of protection he (Mr. La-
bouchere) retained the opinions he had always held,
and he maintained that if colonial sugar was protected
at all, it was idle to draw a distinction between
foreign free-labour sugar and foreign slave-labour
sugar, for otherwise slave labour would practically and in
effect be encouraged. The Hon. Member opposite (Mr.
Disraeli) had adverted to the case of the Mauritius ; and
before he (Mr. Labouchere) offered any reply he could
not but observe that his observation that the merchants
who had been involved in ruin from their connexion with
the Mauritius had been spoken of with scorn and con-
tumely was without foundation. He (Mr. Labouchere)
had heard nothing in that House that savoured of that
character. He for one could not but regard the calami-
ties which had befallen them with sympathy and com-
passion, and he could not think that the remarks of his
Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer
bore any other character. Such calamities had often
befallen the wisest and most prudent merchants ; but the
case of the Mauritius exemplified strongly the
evils of a system supported by protection. He
believed the Mauritius had been eminently the
victim of protection. It could not be said that
there was in the Mauritius a want of labour,
for labour was there in abundance ; but, attracted
by the prospect of high prices only to be expected
under a system of protection, the merchant and others
there had greatly exceeded the planting in that country.
In addition, the rate of wages had been exceedingly
high ; poor land had been taken into cultivation, and a
most artificial state of things had prevailed ; and he be-
lieved all the difficulties in the Mauritius were traceable
to that system of protection which had now been held out
as the panacea for till the ills to which the British colo-
nies had been exposed. He rejoiced that an Honourable
Member connected with the cultivation of sugar in the
East Indies had to night addressed the House, because
he had shown that the cry of distress was not confined
to the West Indies alone, but also was heard in the East
Indies. This showed that general and universal causes
had brought injury and embarrassment into every part
of the commercial system of this country during the past
year. He hoped the West Indians would not listen to
the advice of those friends who took so much pains to
assure them that, under no circumstances, could free
labour ever compete in those colonies successfully with
slave labour. If that were true, of course the
colonists would be justified in abandoning their
estates in despair. But, in his opinion, it was any-
thing but true. Looking only at the broad facts, it was
notorious that, in the face of the competition of the
slave-grown produce of Cuba and other places, a great
export of free-labour sugar had gone on from Java and
other islands where free labourers were employed.
Some doubt had been thrown on the fact of the labour
of these colonies being entirely free; but the late Par-
liament had legislated on that supposition, and the late
Government had formed their calculations expressly on
the ground of the labour in Java being free. And-it
was very remarkable that in those countries where
sugar was cultivated by slaves so little were they satis-
fied that the planters were taking measures to intro-
duce free labour. In Cuba, a society had been recently
formed, under the presidency of the Captain-general
of the island, the object of which was the general
improvement of the cultivation. This society had
offered considerable premiums to such planters as
should introduce free labourers, and they had also
made contracts for their importation from wher-
ever they could be obtained. Great difficulties had been
foued in the way of introducing Europeans ; the Com-
mittee had accordingly taken measures for introducing
Asiatics ; and this was going on with every prospect
of success. They had already obtained 600 labourers
from Asia ; and it was expected the number would be
increased to 8,000. He had seen, in a Spanish news.
paper, a letter from a respectable party in Ilavannah,
dated 9th December last, giving a favourable account of
the Asiatic labourers, and stating that their passage
from China cost 501., their clothing 204, and their
yearly wages about 404 The Hon. Member for Buck-
inghamshire had said the result of all this was, that the
abolition of slavery was the greatest blunder ever com-
mitted by this country. He (Mr. L.) admired the in•
trepidity of this assertion, but was convinced that it
would not find a response in the breast of any other
Member of the House.—(Hear, hear.) He did not be-
lieve that the house or the country had had any reason
to regret the step then taken. All the accounts received
from the colonies, up to the latest periods, bore tes-
timony to the perfect good government and general
social improvement of the black population. However
deep might be the regret of the House—in which he"
most sincerely joined—for the distress in which the
planters, the possessors of estates, and the merehasts
were involved—he hoped only for the present—it must
be mat er of rejoicing that, as far as regarded the great
body of the population, the intentions of the House had
been carried out, and their position at this time pre-
sented the most advantageous contrast to that which
existed during their state of slavery. They were show-
ing themselves worthy of the boon which had been con-
ferred on them; they were acquiring habits of order and
industry; and that part of the measure, at least, had
not turned out a failure; for we should soon see a black
population inhabiting those islands in a state of free•
dom, able to exercise the rights and perform the duties
of freemen, and to fu:fil the obligations of faithful
subjects and good citizens.—(Hear, hear.) On
one point there was a most material discrepancy of
opinion between the West Indians speaking for thens• •
selves and speaking through their advocates in that
House—he alluded to the question of the navigation-
laws.—(Hear, hear.) Ministers had been taunted with
pretending to understand the affairs of the West Indians
better than the West Indians themselves; but he was
only anxious that Hon. Gentlemen opposite would allow
them to speak for themselves on this question. The
House of Assembly of the largest West India island,
Jamaica, in their address to the Queen on this subject,
besought that their exertions might be wholly unfet-
tered, and that they might bo permitted to enjoy. free
commercial intercourse with all nations. They pointed
cut the adiantages possessed by Jamaica for becoming
a great commercial depot for the interchange of the
products of various countries if the navigation-laws
were removed; and they added—" The benefit to .1.6"
tnaica from such relaxation would be infinite. It is the
most desirable boon that our inhabitants could receive
from the Government. It would aid Jamaica to rise
out of her difficulties; and would be hailed with exulta-
tion and acknowledged with every sentiment of
gratitude and respect. It would be an honourable
and generous concession on the part of Great Britain,
which would exalt her in the esteem and admira-
tion of all other nations." (Hear, hear.) Having
determined that no preference should be given to our
colonies over those of foreign nations, Parliament was
bound by every principle of the merest justice to take_
care that our colonists had the unlimited power of
freighting the vessels of any other country which they.
might think fit to employ.—(Hear, hear.) A somewhat
extraordinary proposal had been made by the Nobes
Lord opposite (Lord George Bentinck) in reference
_te
Cuba, for the purpose of putting down the slave trad.e•
to the effect that as a large sum of money was due to
this country to Spanish bondholders, we should,seize the
island of Cuba. in payment of OW debt, and that

free trade --
, the Government inva- as J, principle, that ought to regulate the fu- to the effect that as a large sum of money was due
remedies which, when ture commerce of this mighty empire. Ho believed this country to Spanish bondholders, we shouldgseize the
:acts but phrases—and if that such was the case, not because the Ileum) was pro- island of Cuba in payment of that debt, and that "

should then have great facility in putting down the slave I
trade there.— (Laughter.) He dil not know whether
the Noble Lord had made that pie posal seriously; if so,
considering the distinguished position the Noble Lord
held in that House, speaking not only for himself, but
for a large political party; he (Mr. Labeuchere) could
not help feeling it is duty to say that such an act on the
part of this country would be the most unjustifiable act
that could possibly be adopted.—(Hear, hear.) He
knew that such a design had been imputed to this
Government in the American papers, and the proposal
having been made by the Noble Lord, he felt bound to
express this opinion respecting it.—(Hear, hear.) He
wished to do an act of justice to a gentleman (Mr. Price)
who had been alluded to by the Hon. Member for Hunt-
ingdon. He had in his hand a letter from Mr. Price,
stating that great losses had been suffered on a certain
estate under his management by defective machinery,
which had been wrongly attributed, at first, to his mis-
management, but now the trustees were aware of the
real cause.—(Elear, hear.) He would now only repeat,
that, with the must perfect sympathy for the distresses
of the West Indians, and the greatest desire to relieve
them, the Government would not do their duty if they
held out any hope of renewed protection. It was said
that if this decision were ratified by the House the doom
of the coloaies was scaled; but he hoped for better
things, from the natural advantages Government pos-
sessed by these colonies. They had never prospered
under the protective system; but he was sanguine enough
to hope that they would do so under the system now in-
troduced. The Government was convinced that no in-
terest permanently flourished which was not exposed to
competition; and, entertaining these views, they were
bound to carry them out. If the Parliament disapproved
of these principles, let them place the Government of
the country in other hands.—(Hear, hear.) But they
were convinced that it was their duty to continue to act
on the principles which they had adopted.—(tlear.)
Mr. GOULBURN said he sacrificed his feelings as a
colonial proprietor, when the late free-trade measures
wore passed, to the general benefit of the empire; and
the fact of the interests of the colonists having been so
subordinated to those of the pnblic at large, gave th( m
now the stronger claim on the sympathies of the House.
Looking at the state to which many of the colonists were
now reduced, it might fairly be said that the considera-
tion of their case was one to which the House was bound
to attend. He denied that this question was to be regu-
lated by the general principle of protection or free trade.
What was the course which Parliament pursued ? It
had declared that slavery should be abolished and a
system of free labour adopted—thus placing the colonists
in a position in which they were obliged to compete
with countries where slavery existed. It was for
Government to devise means for extricating the
colonies from this position. Nothing, however, was
attempted. No remedy was devised. The colo-
nists asked to have their molasses used in distilleries in
this country, but Right Hun. Gentlemen opposite, who
were such advocates of free trade and opponents to pro-
tection, said, " Oh, no, we cannot allow you protection ;
but we must protect the revenue." The colonists asked
for the abolition of the rum duties, but the Chancellor
of the Exchequer said, " We cannot protect you, but we
must protect the distillers at home." Again, the colo-
nists asked for immigrants from Africa, but the Govern-
ment replied, ' We cannot protect you, but we must
protect the unhappy African"—while, at the same time,
they allowed that produce which was wrung from slave
labour to be consumed in this country, thereby stimu-
lating the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that
nothing had been done to introduce improvements into
the West Indies. He did not think Hon. Gentlemen
could have read the last report made by the Government
officers with respect to Jamaica, which proved that great
improvement had been introduced into agriculture, and
that machinery had been applied to the cultivation of
the sugar to a great extent. It was, therefore, too much
to be told now that they ought to improve the system of
agriculture. The West Indian colonists were taught to
rely on the promises of Parliament, and on the faith of
the promises of Parliament they invested their capital.
It was true that they received compensation fur the abo-
lition of slavery, but, at the same time, it was resolved
that sevon years should intervene before its total aboli-
tion. Well, what took place ? Shortly afterwards
Parliament decreed that the abolition should be imme-
diate. He was aware that Parliament rescinded that
resolution of the House, but nevertheless, it had an inju-
rious effect on the leolonies. They were making every
preparation during the interval to meet the cosapetition
of slave labour when the apprenticeship system was abo-
lished. It was not, therefore, their fault that the %Vest
Indian colonies were not in a flourishing condition, but
the fault of Parliament, which held out to them delusive
promises. He was not:going to say that a system of free
labour might not prove successful, but every impediment
was thrown in the way of their procuring labourers from
Sierra Leone and other places. The Right Honour-
able Gentleman alluded to an introduction of free
labourers which had taken place into Cuba. He would
inform the House how the facts stood with respect to
that. When, in 1845, the law was passed which
restricted the admission of slave-grown sugar into the
markets of this country, there was a discussion in Cuba
es to whether it would not be advisable to place them-
selves in such a situation by means of the liberation of
some slaves, as they could not obtain admission for their
sugars into this country. But then commenced the Act
of 1846, and immediately their zeal for the introduction
of free labourers into Cuba cooled. Not only was the
eff'ort to cultivate sugar by means of free labourers in
Cubs abandoned, but all those horrors, the recital of
which used to harrow the feelings of that House in
former years had been renewed.—(bear, hear.) That
which Mr. Burke declared almost in the spirit of pro-
phecy, as likely to take place, had occurred. That
Right Honourable Gentleman felt, as every honourable
and feeling mind must have felt, all the horrors
of the slave trade, but, on a motion for its abolition, he
told the House that it was necessary to look beyond
the present moment, and to take care that, if they
abandoned the slate trade, it would not be taken up by
the Spaniards and other foreign nations less scrupulous
than themselves, who would be only too willing to
follow it for the profits which they had abandoned. lie
told them to be on
,their guard lest they should again
be forced back into it to the degradation and disgrace
of the nation before the whole of Europe.—(Hear,
hear.) What Mr. Burke said of the slave trade may
be equally applied to slavery-. Were they prepared for
the sake of saving a Id. per lb. on sugar, to abandon
all their high professions and all their efforts at re-
storing the degraded class of slaves to their proper
station in the scale of human beings ?—(Hear, hear.)
Ile had beard with deep regret the determination of
her Majesty's Ministers not to adopt any means of
affording relief to the West Indian colonies,_ It would
be inflicting a deep blow on the negro if they were
to proclaim to Europe that the experiment which
they had tried in the cause of humanity had failed,
that they who had freed the slave had their colonies
ruined thereby, and that those who adhered to slavery
cad the slave trade continued in a state of prosperity.
It had been said that they ought to reside on their
estates. But in Guadeloupe, where the proprietors were
resident, there was severe suffering, and in Jamaica, the
resident proprietors suffered more than those who were
not resident, because those who were here had a greater
command over labour.—(Hear, hear.) They had been
told also that West Ihdians had always been complain-
ing. The fact was true, but the inference was wrong,
for the complaints of West India proprietors had, at
different times, arisen from different causes, and not at
all times from the same cause as at present. With
regard to the remedies proposed, it was impossible for
him to give any opinion. What the Government in-
tended to du with the navigation-laws was still unknown.
Until the measure was before them no judicious man
could arrive at any decision as to its adaptation to West
Indian interests, The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded
by calling on the Government, in justices to all classes
in the colonies, to supply an adequate and satisfactory
remedy, and to prevent the West Indies from being
monuments of desolation and examples of the broken
faith of a British Parliament. Personally he disclaimed
allowing himself to be influenced by private considera•
time upon this subject, but he expressed his regret that
by himself continuing the works on his Jamaica estates
he had induced others to follow an example which in
many cases had resulted in ruin.
Sir E. N. BUXTON declared his opinion that
slave emancipation, bad it not been foil the fatal mea-
sure of 1846, would have proved a triumphant example
of humane policy. He believed that even now we had
great reason to congratulate ourselves upon that mea-
sure. for in many respects all must admit that our
colonies were far better off than those in which slavery
was retained. He thought posterity would be some-
what astonished at finding that the very men—he
might almost say the very Government—who brought
about the great measure of emancipation were the first
too propose the admission on equal terms of the produce
Nest Indian countries. He said this—not as a
Indian, not as a Protectionist—but as one feeling
what it would be especially ungrateful for him not to
feel,eii)a.o trhse vastness of the effort made by the slave eman
t of Great Britain. After their exertions—
exertions extending over forty years—it was deplorable
to think that we should be encouraging to a greater
degree the cultivation of sugar by slaves and the prose-
cution of the slave trade than at any antecedent period.
Ile felt bound to enter his protest against the system so
fatal to our consistency and our honour.
Lard G. BENTINIK, in reply, expressed his deter-
Zeillatinn to proceed with the Committee, in the cou-
;'enoe that evidence would be elicited which must
slur the opinions of the Government on the subject.
Li ridiculed the speculations of mere theorists as to the
eintroduction of free labour into our West Indian colonies;
t, as an illustration of their ignorance of the matter,
referredea to Lord Grey's proposition that kroomen might
after!' go over to the sugar harvest, and return home
harvest,
it, as Irishmen come over to England for the corn
and then return, evidently imagining that the
the distance was no broader than the Irish Channel, whereas
ance between the Kroo coast and the nearest
point of our West India islands, was not less than 4,200
miles.—(llear, hear, and a laugh.) Ile dwelt at some
length upon the propriety of taking possession of Cuba,
as a means at once of settling the claims of British bond-
holders upon Spain, and of practically destroying the
Slave trade.
The motion was then agreed to.
PAROCHIAL SURVEYS.
On the motion of Mr. WYLD, a return was ordered
of the names of all the parishes within eight miles of
St. Paul's (excluding the city of London), which have
been surveyed under the provisions of the Act 6th and
7 h William IV., chap. 96; stating the year in which
such surveys were made, the scale (inches to the mile)
upon which the map of such survey is drawn, and the
Sul" of money paid by each parish for such surveys
and maps.
The House adjourned at Two o'clock.

ANCRSTRT.-Sir Thomas Overbury said of a man
who boasted of his ancestry that he was like a potatoe
--" the best thing belonging to him was underground."
—Poyncler's Literary Extracts (New Series).