The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-18 00:00:00

answPr. Sti-h procerding was most njecorous in his opinion,
and he fell it the more that it was a matter on which he was

most anxious.

He coLsiclered the whole affair was scandalous;

the officers had been tricked ; they had been written to, and
many of them had sent in their names, saying they would
accept of the retirement ; the plan was rejected, and
the names were kept up in the Admiralty—kept
up there as a rod over their heads. The conse-
quence to these officers would be, that they would never
get employment, for whenever they applied the Lord of the
Admiralty would refer to the said list, and his observation
would be, " Oh, why hers I have this man's name down for
retirement, and yet he asks to be employed." In his opinion,
the whole proceeding had been most reprehensible and most
scandalous. The present plan, he said, was that the first 100
old captains should retire, if they thought proper, on 25r. a day.
How inconsistent this vra;l the plan was, if they would take it,
255. a-day, and the hope of rear-admiral. But then if 10 only
took it, and though that was an extreme supposition, yet it
might occur, if 10 only took it, why, then, only I() would retire,
and that would be the working of their plan. The next 200
on the 14s. 6d and the 10s. 6d. list, if they took it, retired on

I/. and lBs. a day; and many, he had no douipt4woulti accept it;
they would retire as captains, only they could never ris.e higher
than 3601. a- year, and might obtain promotion to rear-admiral,
which they might have got in the natural way. This he con-
sidered to be injustice, if all the 100 got to be rear-admiral
and 4601. a-year. The plan which he (Sir Charles Napier)
would suggest would be the following, He supposed
that the Government gave all the tracers, within the first 100,
460/. a-year, which he thought was only fair; and for this
reason, because if one officer weu!d get to he rear- admiral in
the course of five years, he had a right to the 4601. ; this,
then, gave all at the top of the list the same privilege of re-
ceiving the 460 i. If 60 or 70 took it, he did not see why
those that were left of the 100 should be punished. After
having applied this to the first hundred, he would allow the
rest to take 360 g. and retire. Thus, then, when the one hun-
dred had received the 4601. and the promotion of rear-admiral,
they would allow others to retire on the 364 t., till the money
was absorbed. He said absorbed, for he was not of opinion
that more money should be voted than 30,0004; he did not
want more money, but more judgment, applied to the case ;
indeed he thought 25,(2001. enough for the first year. There
was another objection which he had to this plan, an insur-
mountable objection, an objection which he would never yield
while he sat in Parham-tit. It was that the adoption of the
plan would bo forcing the officers to go on the retiring list ;
and the oldest officers were allowed to ask employment till
they were black in the face—(Laughter)—but in vain; they
were forcing tIP3 oldest officers on the list— Captain Gordon,
for example. At present the oldest officer, and very soon his
Hon. Friend opposite (Captain Pechell) would be affected in
the same way; to accept of the retirement—to accept it in spite
of their teeth.—( Laughter.) That was the very practice
which the Duke of Wellington, at the head of a Commission,
had done away. That Commission brought back many from the
retired list, and gave them employment. The present proposal
was to undo all that the Commission had done. It put a man

on the retired list—yes, and more, it put a dot against his name,
to the effect that he coulA never be employed again. Why,
there was a friend of his, still but a you g man—he was a
younger n,an than he (Sir C. Napier) was—(Laughter)—but
he had been asking employment for the last thirty years—
(Laughter)—yet it wa, in vain. He said the Government
positively disgraced a man by the plan proposed—the plan
which the Honuurab!c Gentleman opposite kept very snug
in his pocket ; he thought it was most degrading. rut,
again, while the sum of 30 0001, was being given by the
country, the House ought to have an assurance as to the
number of those wha were to be promoted. The plan which
_

had been pursued was most irregular. In 1830 it was ar-
ranged to be one promotion in three. What, he asked, should
the House and the country understand by that? Why, that it
would be religiously observed. But what was the fact? Why,
instead of one in three, it was three in one. Every man who

distingui4ted himself was made the one in three ; that one in
three promotion was given as the private patronage of the First
Lord of the Admiralty. The First Lord of the Admiralty
monopolised all the patronage. A friend made a call upon him;
the First Lord of the Admiralty went to his board,

" Gentlemen," he said, " I have a pressing case ; my
own patronage is up, let us make it a special case."
The list, he said, would show what he said ; but let
them only compare the list of 18.30 with that of 1846, and
the Howe ought to be satisfied how this was to be settled. Ho
thought that 15 admirals aud 15 captains dying during the year,
the 30 ought to cover the year's promotions. He said that one-
half of the vacancies that occurred would he on the com-
mander's list, and one-half on the lieutenant's list, which would
give the First Lord of the Admiralty more patronage than any
First Lord had ever had who had been there. The conse-
quence of the plan pursued at present, was that the
service was in an inefficient state ; their commanders
were old, and their captains were old, and they
could not get lieutenants sufficient for the service.
He hoped the late motions on flogging in the army and in the
navy would have the effect of directing attention to the state of
the navy. He hoped the Government would follow the ex-
ample of a private merchant, who had a Seet of twenty-two
ships, and had established a seamen's home for his men, and he
found it most economical after all. He (Sir C. Napier) did not
see if it was most economical for a private merchant to provide
for tke comfort of his men, why it should not be so for a Govern-
ment. He hoped the Government would adopt a different system;
would improve the men's pay, and would desist from paying of
the ship's crew when she came home.
Mr. HUME said he had called the attention of the House
to the abuses in the navy, and at that time he found,
for every captain employed there were seven relays, and an
equal proportion for each commander.— ( Hear, hear.)
This was not a system of retirement, but of patronage. If
returns were laid upon the table of the House, they would find
that the navy was solely kept up as a means of bestowing pa-
tronage. he Hon. Member proceeded to read extracts, to
show that many were placed on the retired list, and on the
promotion list, who had never served. The House of Com-
mons should not permit a superannuation to be made unless they
had a list made out agreeable to these returns. It appeared,
from the returns printed in 1835, that the actual service per-
formed by 638 captains was only a period of four years. Now
they wanted, at the present time, to put 200 of these
men on the retired pension list. Out of 1,188 com-
manders in the navy, 492 never served a day as
a commander, and 102 only served one year; leaving a
balance of 594 who never served at all. For every °Moor
in service there were six who could not get employed,
and thus, when vacancies were required, they were obliged to
pen,ion off some and promote others. This was a system
which could not be allowed to continue.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that a
great many things in the system might be altered and modi-
fied, but the Government were in office too short a time to
be able at the present moment to give it the attention which
they desired. The present system owed its origin to the
enormons number of officers who were employed during the war.
Mr. HUMS—That is the old story.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It may be
the old story, but that does not make it the less true ; and it
has been found that it was impossible not to place them in
such a position which they deserved, and so much merited.
Hence arose the over-stocking of the navy ; and the men who
at present served would not continue to do so unless
they had some hope of some reward, particularly
as the pay of the Admiralty was not as liberal
as he considered it ought to be. Though brought up in the
school of the Honourable Member for Montrose, he bad ever
advocated an increase of pay to officers in active service.
Mr. CORRY was very glad that the Admiralty had taken
up the question, as it gave great promise that a wholesome re-
form would take place in the present system,
Admiral DUNDAS hoped the Hon. Member for Montrose
would not oppose the vote. He considered the plan submitted
was necessary for the efficiency of tce service.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought they would not effect any good
until they had cleared out all the old captains; but to do that
they ought to have a properly digested plan of retirement.
He could not consent to the vote merely because the Govern-
ment asked for the money, but they ought to lay down a plan
before they a=ked the House to agree to the vote. He would
certainly divide the House on the question
Mr. GOULBURN hoped the Hon. Member would not
divide the Committee on the question. He considered it was
impossible to bring any definite plan before the House upon a
mere conditional arrangement, which depended on the accept-
ance of the officers whine retirement was desired, in order to
give it effect. He trusted the Hon. Gentleman would allow

the vote to go on tho responsibility of the Government.
Captain BERKELEY said that the object of the Govern-
ment was to make the list of admirals progressively effective,
and it was for that purpose this vote was proposed.
Captain PECHELL complimented the late Chancellor of
the Exchequer on the speech he had made. It had made him
sorry that the Right Hon. Gentleman had gone over to the
other side of the House. He complained, however, that the
plan propose was not clear and intelligible; and, although the
Hon. Member for Hertford had stated bow the plan affected the
145., the 125., and the 10s. 6d. liar, he did not state how it affected
other officers in the service. These points were unexplained
and they could never have confidence in the arrangement until
this was done. On the other side of the House, it was pro-
posed to retire 300 officers, but on that side of the House it
was proposed to retire 200; and if he were to give
his opinion on the two plans, he would admit that
his bias was in favour of his friends below him.
He thought, in the absence of any plans, the Hon. Member for
Coventry was justified in pursuing any course calculated to
throw light upon the subject. The public wanted to know
what the Government plan was. and would not be satisfied till
they were put in posssession of that information.
Mr. COWPER supported the vote, and in doing so said he
should be happy to communicate the plan of the Admiralty to
the Hon. and Gallant Member privately.—( Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Captain Pechell, the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, Sir Charles Napier, and Admiral Dundas,
Mr. HUME said, if captains were to be bribed to retire,
he could see no reason why officers of a lower grade should not
enjoy the same privilege.
After a few words from Captain PLUMRIDGE,
Captain PECHELL said that with the Hon. and Gallant
Mensbor,he agreed that the retiring officers should be better re-
munerated, but he had very great objections to the plan of
giving a d.fferent amount of remuneration to different officers.
Mr. WILLIAMS said he had intended taking the sense of
the House on this question, but considering the present state
of the House, he would not persist in bringing the House to a
division.—(Hear, hea-.) He would, however, bring forward
the subject on some future occasion.
The vote was agreed to.
After which the House resumed.
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the report was
ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
The Miscellaneous Estimates then went through Committee
and the report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
SPIRIT LICENSES AND DUTIES BILL.

This Bill, with some amendments, was read a third time
and posPd.
NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT BILL.

This BiU was read a second time, and ordered to be corn.
witted to-marrow.
HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICERS BILL.

This Bill was read a third time, and passed.
INCOME-TAX DEDUCTION BILL.
The Howe then resolved itself into a Committee en this Bill.
Mr. J. COLLETT wished to know, from he Chancellor of
the Exchequer, what was the object of this Bill?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
there were certain officer-, in the Court of Chanc!f.ry who had
hitherto not been liable to the payment of the income tax, and
this was to make them pay.---( Laughter.)
The clauses were agreed to, the House resumed, and the
Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
COURT OF EXCHEQUER (IRELAND) BILL.

The Bill went thrnugh Committee, and was ordered to be
read a third time tu•morrow.
CUSTOMS BILL (No. 2.)

This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be corn
witted t,, mr:rrew.

DISTRICT LUNATIC ASYLUMS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the order of the day for the House resolving itself into
Committee on this fill,
Captain LAY ARD proposed a question to the Government.
In reply to which,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
salary had been settled by the late Government, but he would
be happy to consider the case.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL was happy to hear the Right Hon.
Gentleman say so.
After a few words from Mr. WAKLEY on the Haydock
Asylum, the House went into Committee on the Bill, the
clauses of which were read and agreed to.
Thy :Nowa waif ortlvred to be bmiglitup tamorror.