The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-23 00:00:00

CLARKE'S DIVORCE BILL.

On the motion of Lord BROUGHAM, this Bill was read a
second time.

THE CORN-LAWS.

Lord ASHBURTON rose, in pursuance of notice, to move
—" That whatever may be the alterations which it may be
expedient psrmanently to make in the laws regulating the
introduction of foreign corn, it is the opinion of this
House that the sudden importation of the large quan-
tity of wheat now in bond at a very low rate of duty,
while the prices are moderate and the prospect of the approach-
ing harvest is promising, may be productive of great injury
and injustice to the cultivators of the soil of the United King-
dom, and that some better provision against such a calamity should
be provided than is contained in the Bill now before the House "
He did not intend, after the long discussion which had already
occupied the attention of their Lordships on the subject of the
corn-laws, to trespass long upon their attention, although
the subject was one of the most important character,
and one which demanded their most calm and deli-
berate attention. He did not expect to be able to its verse the
decision to which they had recently come on tilts question.
He could not say that the policy of the Government with re-
gard to the corn-laws met with his approbation—he
could not say that he became a party to this hasty, hazard-
ous, and dangerous question—he could not say what
might be the usage of the Parliamentary Cabinets; bus
this he could say, that he believed that there was no
object to be gained. This question was only of importance
as it affected the corn question, and he was, therefore, disirous
of coming to a decision to-night. He was well aware that it
was asserted that there was a large quantity of corn imported
into the United Kingdom. He was also aware that there was
an objection on account of the taxes. Now, it was well under-
stood that there was a large quantity of corn imp rted into the
country ; and he had understood that a decisios was to be come
to at the present moment. If this House were to be consulted,
he understood that a division would be come to on Monday or
Tuesday next, when, perhaps a majority might determine the
question. A return, lately made to their Lordships' House,
snowed the amount of wheat in bond was 2,000,000 quar-
ters. Since that time there had been a considerable in-
crease in the quantity imported into this country. It hail been
pouring in from every part. and merchants have been
buying immense quantities to meet the rumoured famine.
In one week only, in Liverpool, 56,1110 barrels of flour were
imported between Ist and 9th June ; 51 vessels, laden with corn,
had entered the various ports of the United Kingdom. Of this
number 32 contained wheat, 5 barley, 12 oats, and 2 peas.
the Noble Lord had said that even if this quantity of corn
were to come in, it would not make the produce of
farms wholly unsaleable. From that opinion he totally
differed, for a great sale of food was of much
importance to the country, and under the Noble Lord's
r opinion, the imagined security of great abund ince would
not be a security against great dearth. The Noble Lord had
on a former occasion said that they were mistaken in
supposing that all this corn would come in; it would not come
in at all because it cost the importers 60s. ; and what
chance had they of this ever being brought in at that
price at which it could not be sold at a profit ? He
was sure that ten days would not elapse before every
holder of corn would bring it in, for if they did not they would
be caught by the decrease of duty. The latest price of corn
was 525. 10d., and by the new Bill, if that became the
average of six weeks, the duty would immediately rise ,
because 535. was the rate at which, according to the
new Bill, the corn was to come in at 4s. The
average quantity of corn introduced into this country was
550,000 quarters a year, and he wanted to know what pros-
pect they had now, in the present state of things, of requiring
five times that amount?—(Hear, hear.) How could their
Lordships sanction such an injustice to the tillers
of the soil of the country?—( Near.) But he had only stated
what had been the average of the last three years, and it might
be said that in 1839, 1840, 1841, and 1842, there
was a considerable deal more corn wanted in this
country than 550,000 quarters. Let the House, however,
look to the years 1532, 1833, 1834, 1835, 1836, and 1837, and
they would see that the average for six sears running was under
5'i0,000, clearly showing that the larger quantity was the ext,t‘p-
' lion, and not the rule. He therefore entreated Noble Lor !s
to consider this question calmly, clearly, and dispassionately,
and if they were determined to try a desperate experi-
‘nent 1 t them do it cautiously and carefully. or not at all.
On a former occasion, when it was proposed to remit some
protective duties, steps were taken to prevent the evils that
might arise from the sudden withdrawal of protection. In
1822 the Act was pass, d, and Mr. Huskisson kept the old
law in operation till the prices had reached a certain amount.
Again, in 1826, that statesman let in 400,000 qrs. of wheat, or
about else-fifth of that which would be admitted in now, and so
careful was he to prevent any violent oscillation of price that
oe provided that one-third of it should be introduced every
month, thus extending it over the period of three months.
This was also while the ditty was kept at 10s. a quarter. Such
was the cautiousnees of the Government of that day. when there
was no comparison of the change proposed with that now
before the House. He was persuaded there would be no diffi-
culty in making an arrangement of this kind now. He had
ern much hope, however, as they professed a great deal of
•ympathy for shippers and manufacturers, but they had very
little sympathy for the poor cultivators of the soil.—( Heat, hear).
He complained that their Lordships, in passing this measure,
appeared to act too carelessly with regard to the interests of the
parties whom it would affect. He had occupied their Lordships'
attention longer than he could have wished; but he had
sonfined himself simply to facts. He had not occupied their
Lordships' attention for the purpose of calling upon them to
retrace their steps. Would te God that he could persuade
them to do so.—(Hear, hear.) He had not the slightest hope
of being able to do so, but he begged of them seriously
to consider what would be the effect of their
decision on this question. Their Lordship should not,
in justice, interfere with the present prosperous state
of things unless a sufficient case were made out. The
Noble Lord concluded by moving his resolution.
The Earl of DAL HOUSIE said that he had al-
ways risen with great diffidence in making a reply
in that House, but he never felt less difficulty than
at the prsent moment, for he firmly believed that a better case
could not be made out than that which had been
submitted to their Lordships. Now it had been stated
that the quantities of corn now under bond was 1,500,000
quarters, while in fact the whole quantity was only
9,000 quarters. He conceived that those facts sufficiently
showed that there ought to be a protection for native industry.
There ought at any rate to be some security, and if this
security were given there was little doubt about the question ;
but whether the question were settled this way or that he con-
ceived that seine sufficient security should be given for the ob-
servance of the compact. In the southern parts the scarcity
was owing to the alarming drought ; from one end of Europe to
the other the same sad effect was felt. Any Noble Lord who
was in the habit of reading the newspapers might see that in
Poland, hussia, and other corn producing countries, the people
were not in a state of deficiency, but they might
almost say in a state of starvation and death. It
scat also notorious that in the south of Europe, Natolia
and other provinces, the people are actually dying by the road
side. He would, therefore, repeat the phrase, that nature, in
her various elements, was arraying herself in a conspiracy against
them. The Noble Lord had stated that an immense quantity of
corn would be forced into the market, such as had never been
heard of. He quoted the returns for the years 1844, 1845, and
1846. Why he did not quote the returns of the preceding years
he (Lord Dalhousie) did not know. He supposed it was numero
stmeto, a sacred number. He would call the attention or the
House to the fact, that the year before, in 1843, there were
840,000 quarters of wheat. imported, being more than double
the quantity imported in the year 1844. He could inform their
Lordships, that during four weeks in the year 1842. under the
existing law, there was admitted 2,100,000 quarters of wheat.
Lord ASHBURTON— At what amount of duty ?
Earl of DALHOUSIE—The average price was from 645.
to 61s. 10d., and the average duty was, he believed, from Bs.
to Ils. per quarter. There was also admitted 2.017,045 quar-
ters. And this quantity of wheat, be it remembered, had been
admitted at the same amount of duty as that Proposed by seve-
ral Noble Lords themselves in the course of the late debate.
While his Noble Friend told them that they should not pro-
ceed hastily, but should do something to let that large quan-
tity of corn out of bond, he would tell them that her Ma-
jesty's Government had adopted such measures. They were
well aware that, on the passing of any resolution affecting any
particular duty, a Treasury order was issued for the admission
of the article un the intended reduced price, bond being given
that in case of the measure not passing into a law, the duty
should be repaid to the Treasury. He felt it necessary to
oppose the motion of his Noble Friend, for it was calculated
to do more mischief to the holders of corn than it did good to
them. The resolution, if passed in its present shape, would
refuse to admit corn which had been a long time in bond, un-
less certain conditions were complied with, while the
corn which arrived flue week after the passing of
the resolution would escape the resolution altogether.l resolution
He would repeat that if their Lordships adopted this
ar ser cu ha s
they would commit a most unjust act, because,
their existing law of 1842, did not allow corn Into be
hb his Noble
which, by
tlis Noble
im-
ported until it reached a certain price.
Friend's resolution, must be 60s. per .
although he
Friend admitted that in the course of his 'lst admission.—( Hear,
hear.) did not mean to have made
hear . ) If this resolution were passed, it woutlehdnaagtmapgoreoudpnotsinetodtbhayn;
absolute prohibition. The
corn trade had net expected esuchop cle wohurosewearse.
*his Noble Friend, and he ( Lord Dalhousie) again contended tha
those individuals would
.be most seriously in,
if it were passe 1,
Why, they had
jured. His
.Noble. Friend had said, take time.
been discussing this question of the corn-laws for the last live
months.—(Hear, bear.) Time, therefore, was
not an element
in the consideration of this question. The individuals con-
' cerned had kept
their grain in bond, burdened by all the ex-
pense of so doing during the whole of the last five months, whilst
the s
they
peechadhes i been discussing the corn question. During
ts the House of Commons they had not heard a
word whispered in support of the course recommended by the
resolution of his Noble- Fried, nor had a word been whispered
to that effect in their Lordships' House during the whole of
these discussions, and yet the Noble Lord now ca e forward
and tilted their Lordships to pass
an e.r
werepost
eldawb.
tAhenidr
this w's not all, fur if -this resolution
Lordships, he submitted to their Lordships that rhey woyuld be
completely deluded in their intentions to serve the interest of
the parties for whom the Noble Lord had shown so much
Fomrrlsseration. They would even Injure toe orders of grain
in the most serious manner.—(Hear, hear.) His Noble
Friend had tdrerted to the can of 1826, but there was no re-

semblance betweer the two eases, Grain in 18213 was &de
meted because of the scarcity which then existed, and there-
fore there was something like a plausible reason for the
course which was adopted in the year 1526.--
(Hear.) But he re .eated, that for the last five months
they had been discusssing the question of the repeal of the
present corn-laws, and that the unfavourable effects, if there
were any, had been produced long since.—( Hear, hear.) All
transactions with respect to corn in bond, external as well as
internal, were now finished. He firmly believed that what-
ever would be the effect of the Corn Bill now pending, the
interests of the cultivators of corn would be best served by as
speedy a settlement of the question as possible.—(Cheers, and
ironical cheers.) He well understood the cheer of the Noble
Duke on the cross-benches, and of the Noble Earl opposite,
but he would repeat that expression of his opinion. He must,
however, admit that the conduct of the Government in pro-
posing by their Bill a delay of three years, was wise and just.
—( Hear, hear.) He was certain that the worst thing that
could happen to those opposed to the corn question, would
be to postpone the passing of the measure. There had been a
large importation of silk expected, and it was thought that
that supply would lower the price of that article ; but such
was not the fact, for since the supply that had been received,
the price had materially advanced.—( Hear, hear.) He
believed that the same would be the case with corn. He
trusted their Lordships would not give their support to the
Noble Lord's resolution.
Lord KINNAIRD said that what he stated on a former
evening was that he not believe there could be great quan-
tities of corn imported at much less prices than it could be sold
for in this country. Indeed he was sure that the supply would
be most deficient from abroad, and as a proof of it he had
had a conversation with a gentleman from Holland, who in-
formed him that the supply of corn in that country was very
small, and that he had come to England to purchase a large
quantity. He held in his hand the report from Mark-lane of
that day ; it stated that corn had advanced Is., oats the same,
and that the supply was very short ; no panic was expected.
Earl GREY trusted that the House would not agree to the
motion of the Noble Lord, without at least something was
pointed out as the result of it. The Noble Lord (Dalhousie)
had shown the injury which the resolution would do with re•
spect to the corn in bond. Was this resolution a roundabout
way of throwing out the Bill which stood for a third reading
on Tuesday?
Lord ASHBURTON—No.
Earl GREY—The Noble Lord said, no. If he did not
mean to throw it out, why bring in such a resolution ? It was
shown that such a resolution would have the contrary effect to
that intended, If it really was an intention to defeat the mea-
sure, why not make an amendment to the third reading ? If
it was not to throw it out, but to give time for a new measure
to be formed, why not have moved that the third reading be
postponed fora fortnight, so as to give time fora measure to be
prepared ? He looked upon this motion as an indirect attempt
to throw nut the Bill, and he hoped their Lordships would not
sanction it.
Lord REDESDALE said the Noble Lord who spoke last
had misunderstood the intention of the Noble Lord who had
moved this resolution. It was said that the resolution would
do great injury to the importer of corn, but was the injury
which would result to the grower by the passing of the Bill
DOE to be taken into account? He would support the reso-
lutioe.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH agreed with the President
of the Board of Trade, that the effect would be contrary
to that intended by the resolution. He trusted that they
would not delay the measure by passing this resolution. but
that they would at once settle their minds upon the subject,
and ease the anxiety of the public, who looked forward to the
passing of the measure.
The Earl of WICKLOW said he would support the reso-
lution, not with the vi tw of throwing out the Government
measure, as was stated by the Noble Earl ( Grey), but becuse
he thought it one which, if carried, would have a most beneficial
effect.

Lord ASHBURTON replied. He did not wish to take up
their time at any length, but, as a measure of justice to the
agricultural interest, he had felt it his duty to propose the re-
solution. He had, after the expression of their Lordships'
opinion on the Corn Bill, no desire to keep back that measure
by anything he could say or do ; still t here being great danger
likely to arise trom the sudden introduction of such a .arge
quantity of grain, he considered it was incumbent on them to
guard against any evil that might arise. He felt strongly ou
the point, as he thought the danger was very great. It was
for them to take it into their grave consideration add decide
accordingly, and he would now leave it in their hands.
Their Lordships then dis ided on the resolution—
l.ontent
Not content
Majority against the resolution. —23
COSI OalS' DUTIES BILL.
On the motion that the House resolve itself into Committee
on this Bill,
The Duke of RICHMOND rose to present a petition from
a number of Macclesfield silk weavers, against those portions
of the new tariff affecting the branch of trade in which they
are interested. The petition, which the Noble Duke read
the
length, and commented on as he went along, was to th
effect that if he existing protection was
withdrawn
from the branch of trade in wnich they were en' a
gaged, it would be ruined. He also prasente _
petition from the Spitalfields weavers, praying to be heard by
counsel at the bar of the House, against the repeal of the duty
the
on foreign silks. The Noble Duke said he had given ltP
conviction that the Corn Bitl would not pass—still, though he
for
a that Bill would now pass, though it might be only
a temporary period, yet toat was no reason why he should give
up the case of protection. He still adhered to that principle,
and would take every opportunity of standing up is defence of
native industry. He would suppotl the prayer of the petitions
tie thought they ought to be allowed to be heard by counsel
that was all they required; and surely their Lordships would
not deny that which had been allowed to the corporations of
England, ..nd other parties whose rights were about to be in-
vaded. The Spitaltieids weavers had suffered much, but they
had been ever loyal to the Sovereign, and their case, therefore,
was one that claimed their esi,ecial consideration. All they
asked was, merely to be listened to for a short time by the
counsel which they had instructed to appear in their behalf.
He would conclude by moving that the petitioners be heard by
counsel at the bar of the House.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE must, however ungracious the
task, oppose the motion that hat been made. He admitted
that in many cases counsel had been heard in
regard to particular measures, but these cases
were different to the one of the present petitioners.
In the former the cases were when particular trades
or interests were to la.e affected by some special measure,
whereas this was a general measure, only incidentally affecting
the re itoners as well as a great number of other individuals.
The Noble Lord here cited the cases in question, and
against them referred to several circumstances in which the
House had ruled that measures of general policy could not be
appealed against by any special interest. If the Spitalfields
weavers were heard against the present measure, how could
they refuse other trades that would be affected by the Bill. who
might pray for a similar privilege! —( Hear, hear.) The public
business of the e eintry he was persuaded could not go on if
such .1 precedent were glowed.
Lord BROUG fl ANI considered that there was a great
amount of difficulty and intricacy in the silk trade, with
which their Lordships could not be made coneersan
unless they were to hear some person specially in-
structed. The Noble Duke on the cross-benches had
made certain statements with reference to the amount
(.f protection. The petitioners had stated, that if they were
allowed to be heard at the bar they could prove that the real
amount of the protection was reduced at least 50 per cent.
He (Lord Brougham) had nothing to say in opposition to the
principle of the Bill, but he should be sorry to exclude any in-
formation front their Lordships. He had every confidence ia
the integrity of the petitioners. and he did not think that it
was for any purposes of delay that they proposed to be heard at
the tar of their Lordships' House. He did not think that it
was any answer to the petitioners to say that. they were not the
only sufferers by the proposed measure. He should most cers-
tasnly wish to have the parties heard. He did not.
know how his Noble Friend on the Treasury benches
could make the statement that there was no precedent
for the measure. In the year 1808, he (Lord Brougham)
had himself been heard as counsel at the bar
of the House, and had been allowed to examine forty or fifty
witnesses on the subject. He had made speeches on the sub-
ject. A short-hand note of the proceedings was taken by Mr.
Blanchard, which was printed for the use of their Lordships.
The original might no doubt be obtained from the executors
and assignees of that gentleman. In the year 1812, it turned
out that they were right in the conclusions to which they ar-
rived. Counsel were also heard against the Municipal Corpo-
rations Act. He thought that when their Lordships were
passing any great measure, they should not hurry it for-
ward without knowing the hearings and details of the case. He
considered the Spitalfields weavers were a most deserving body
of men, and that they deserved the kindest attention of their Lord-
ships. They were a numerous, ingenious, and industrious class
of people. He had known them in prosperity, and he had seas,
them in their accumulation of distress. He had seen them at
the time when the Spafields' rioters held out great expectations
to them—those riots which ended in :he execution of the
sailor Cashman. They baldly and manfully bore up under their
disappointed expectations. He would certainly vote in
favour of the motion if it was pressed to a division.
Lord ELL ENBOROUGH was always sorry to differ with
his Noble and Learned Friend. He thought he was flushed
with the recollection of his early victories. He thought
such a proposition would tend to the destruction of all public
business. The Noble Lord had stated as a reason for hearing
counsel at the bar, that their Lordships were not sufficiently
versed in the mysteries of the silk trade. Their Lordships
might obtain more information from the evidence before tbe
House than from any counsel who might be supposed to in-
struct th, it Lordships. If the petitioners were allowed to be
heard on behalf of the silk trade, why should they not be
heard en the linen, the cotton trade, and the timber trade? If
their Lordships allowed counsel to be heard at the bar on.
behalf of the Spitalfields weavers Against the Bill, it would he
their duty likewise to hear speeches from counsel representing
all the trades that would be affected by this Bill. The Noble
Duke took upon himself to say that if counsel should be
allowed to speak against the Bill, he should pledge himself
that they would not make long speeches. He (the Earl of
Ellenborough) hail the greatest respect for lawyers,. but he had
; and if that
also a particular respect for their Pn"r of
Intlatalinin I
nocnegf speeches.
—( Laughter.) He had suffered
Member be r of their loornd their
permit eac.ira oar eaonulrosuenttotob
been of interminable r shi
long speeches since he had
s
Should
House. To thos-s long
witshto the silk trade,nee why
speeches of
add evidence length hit
reeon'fdPtrade which the passinegPtiorfatitehlswßitilhl
teasN o b
tl Noble and
h e Learnedddone
with F r
hi
an obstruction
might
theire
sp e e Lordships
offt oredcestsh;i t a
every
not
during the present session on this sub-
") Practically it would be so. He
y,l;riatncwould, in fact,
to further legislation
inththae
jest.—(Cries "f " No,
no.
gave the Noble Duke on th eross-berches every credit for
if 'heir Lordships mlrnitb°.ted
throwndoidbsetoaneleesnd ay of the Corn-law A
'Won Bill, but he
this proposition, they could not '
not having
mischief which it must restrain the operation of the
involve. l'he
the of the whole measure was most important part of
of Parliament at the submitted to the consideration
They had heard commencement of the present session.
tioned the course something about precedents, but if they sano-
rse proposed, he adoconcluded that they would
pt a most dangerous course. If their Lordships agreed
this proposition they would establish a principle
fatal many
to
cases to the process of leeislatios in the most important
mat-
ters. He eonsideted the unnecessary delay that this courses
must occasion. He begged of their Lordships to reject the
motion, and they would remove all obstructions from the paw-
ing of a measure which would cause great relaxations, which
he believed would be
branches of manufacture.—( Hear, hear. )
Lord BROUGHAM—My Lords, I beg to assure your Lord•
ships that you need not fear any petitions from any other
body.—( Dissent.) We can shut the door against them.
(Cries of " Oh, ( h.") We have a right to say " why did
net you petition before Cries of " Divide, divide.")
The Duke of WELLINGTON—My Lords, before your
Lordships decide upon this point I wish to remind you what
the question is. It is that counsel should be heard in the
Committee upon this Bill in favour of the petition of the
Spitalfields weavers. Now, my Lords, I beg your Lordships
to recollect that in the Committee on this Bill will be COM.
sidered the details of the Bill. Your Lordships will examine
the details of the Bill, and you will find that there are certain
duties there to be levied upon silk and silk goods, of which the
details are to be given in the schedule. Now, my Lords,
I beg to recal to your Lordships' recollection that you cannot,
consistently with the common practice upon Bills of Customs
and Bills of Supply, make any alterations in the Comnuttee on
these details without an infraction
.of tho rules of proceeding
is ',Weds end which have how existed for about 200 pars iia