The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-25 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDA Y MORNING, FEBRITA Rl7 25, 1846.

• from whom the game was obtained, for if not from a person in
possession of land, it might be fairly concluded that
it had been obtained illegally. The principal object
of the Bill was to cut off all intercourse between
the poacher and the licensed dealer in game;
aid to render it dangerous to the latter, if he should
purchase from any one not qualified by having in his possessiou
a certain quantity of land. He was far from wishing to make
any stringent regulations, and he would not say that ten or fif-
teen acres were not sufficient for a person to rear a considerable
quantity of game. But he would have the purchaser enter in
a book the quantity of game, and from whom purchased. That
was one of the principal objects in the Bill, which presented
itself to his mind, for the protection of game without being in-
jurious to the liberty of any class. He would also propose to
examine any applications from the occupier of lard, com-
plaining of the injuries from game possessed by any neighbour-
ing occupier, and to consider to what extent he had suffered
from the game possessed in neighbouring preserves. He pro-
posed that the magistiatcs should in a word have
the power of appointing surveyors, to examine where
the game had injured any neighbouring lands —(Hear.)
These were the principal points of the Bill which le had to
submit to their Lordships' attention, and as it was merely an
amendment of the Act of the lst and 2d of William IV., and
placed game under a better regulation than it had hitherto been
put, he entertained a very sanguine expectation of obtaining
their Lordships' assent. His principal object was to raise diffi-
culties of communication between the poacher and the licensed
dealer. It enabled the rightful proprietor of game to preserve
his property, and gave him rights of remedy against those par-
ties who preserved game to a greater extent than the support
which their land could provide. It was an improvement on the
protection given by the Act of the Ist and 2d William IV., and
that being the full extent of his amendment, lie would confine
himself to the moving of the second reading of the Bill
before the House, and begging their Lordships' best attention to
its provisions.
Lord CAMOYS entertained very strong objections to the
whole of the clauses of this Bill. He thought it was ex-

tremely improper at this time to make the game-laws more
stringent than they already were. As the law at present stood,
a certificate was required to sell game, which in his opinion
was sufficient restriction. He had objections to several other
clauses, and he thought that it would have been better, in
coincidence with the opinions of many other persons, that a re-
mission, rather than an extension of these restrictions, should
be made. But he still more objected io the provisions of the
7th clause, and thought that any recompense obtained from a
neighbouring proprietor would occasion much heart-burning
and mischief. He also objected to the 9th clause, which re-
pealed that portion of the section of the sth and 6th Vic.,
which provided that half the penalties in convictions under
that Bill should go to the informer. On the whole he consi-
dered the Bill was far too stringent, and afforded no increased
facilities to check poaching.
Lord BROUGHAM admitted that the law did require
some revision. He considered, however, that the greatest
caution was necessary in making any alterations in the exist-
ing laws.
The Duke of RICHMOND considered it advisable for their
Lordships to go into Committee on the subject, and they might
be able to suggast such alterations as were required. He was
of opinion that it was a subject which superinduced loose and
dissolute habits among young men, and tended very much to
produce demoralization among a large class of the community.
With regard to the reports which had been of late circulated
in the newspapers, that he (the Duke of Richmond) had paid
a large sum for damages done by game, he had to say that
the report was quite unfounded, for he had never paid any
damages of the sort ; so far from his encouraging game, he
destroyed all the hares and rabbits which he could find on his
own lands, as he considered them as nothing but mere vermin,
which were as injurious to the landowner as they were to the
farmers. As such a rumour, however, had been repeated in
many newspapers, he would give it a most unqualified denial,
for he had destroyed game long before the celebrated Tam-
worth decree.

Lord HATHERTON expressed his concurrence in the ob-
servations made by the Noble Duke who had just sat down, in
reference to the destruction of game. He had exterminated
an immense quantity of game on his own property, and he
could not exaggerate the satisfaction which it gave him, to see
his estates almost exempt from their depredations. Such a
result wag beneficial alike to the tenants and farmers.
Lord ASHBURTON said that the observations which had
been made by his Noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond) were
entitled to the greatest possible respect. This subject had
deservedly occupied much time in public discussion, and it
had also occupied a prominent place in the public prints. He
concurred with all that had been said by his Noble Friend;
the anima's alluded to by the Noble Duke were indeed nothing
but vermin. He would recommend that when their Lord-
ships went into Committee on this Bill they should take
" hares" entirely out of the class of game.—(Cheers.) He
was quite persuaded that if tkieir Lordships did so they would
in the simplest manner possible get rid of all the unfounded
complaints that had hitherto been made.— (Hear, hear.) He
would venture to trouble their Lordships with an instance of
the unjust operation of the present game-laws : A poor man
who had a garden near Southampton, which he cultivated as a
sort of market-garden, found last year, when he was about to
reap his expecte harvest, that a quantity of rabbits had entered
into his garden and totally destroyed his crop. He was de-
termined to put an end to this sort of destruction, and he
accordingly set a trap. It was discovered shortly afterwards
that he had ensnared a rabbit; he was taken before the magis-
trates of the district on a charge of entrapping game, and
eventually fined in a large sum and costs. Now that be con-
sidered to be a most unjust case, because it was evident that the
only object which he had in view in laying the snares was the
protection of his proper ty.—( Hear, hear.) He should, with
their Lordships' pleasure, when the Bill went into Committee,

propose a clause to exclude hares from the list of game.—
(Hear, hear.)
The 81:1 was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Monday next.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tuesday, Feb. 24.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes before Four.
The following Bills were read a second time, and were
ordered to be committed, viz.:—

Mahon and Driffield Junction Railway.
Glasgow Waterworks._

Cam.l;ridge and Oxford Railway.
Aston Rates.

York and North Midland Railway (East Riding Branches)—
No. 2.
Great North of England Railway Purchase.
Great North of England and Boroughbridge Branch Railway.
Great North of England and Bedale Branch Railway.
Blackburn, Preston, and East Lancashire Railways Amalga-
mation.

FROST, WILLIAMS, AND JONES.
Mr. WILSON PATTEN presented a petition from
Burnley, praying for a remission of sentence in the ease of
Frost, Williams, and Jones.
Several petitions of a similar nature, from Stockdale and
other places, were also presente:l.

had come. They had, therefore, prepared a special report
containing the resolution of the Committee upon this case.
He did not consider that the promoters of this Bill had any-
thing to complain of, as they were publicly told when
the Committee had come to a decision that the decision
was, that the Bill should not be allowed to be proceeded "with.
Upon that oceasion, though he had not an accurate recollection
of the circumstances, still he had not the slightest doubt that
he had stated the decision to be that the standing orders had
not been complied with. The Committee were further desirous
of considering what part of these consequences could be attributed
to them, and they had also instructed their Chairman to move
" That so much of the report of the Select Committee on
Standing Orders, presented to this House on Friday last, as
relates to the West Riding Union Railway petition ; as also,
that the order of the House of the name day, that a Bill be
brought in, in consequence of that report, be annulled."
Mr. WOOD considered that if ever there was a case
in which a lenient construction should be put upon the
orders of the House, the present was one ; in up-
wards of 55 miles of railway, there was but one quarter
of a mile of dissent ; and considering that the line
would confer vast benefits upon the West Riding of Yorkshire,
he would. urge the case upon the favourable consideration of the
House.

Mr. B. DENISON considered that as the line was no
longer opposed, and as the two oppoQing companies were amal-
gamated, he could see no serious objection to the whole scheme.
Mr. AG LIONBY said that he hoped the House would con-
sent to the proposition of the Hon. Member. If the House
really meant that they should take into their consideration the
same facts as before, it would be opening a very dangerous
door for constant application to the House, and for rescinding
the decisions of the Standing Orders' Committee. He was
quite ready to take the whole ease into consideration, coupling
the effect on the public with the mistake made by the Com-
mittee, and the parties might reap some advantage from such a
course.
Mr. CHARLES WOOD said that he felt himself perfectly
satisfied with the decision that had been given by the Standing
Orders' Committee.
Lord MORPET II said that he conceived that the promoters
of that Bill were quite able to make out a strong case; but
with that they had nothing to do. He thought that in order to
meet the justice of the case (the mistake having been made),
that the Bill should be referred to the Committee with whom
the mistake originated.
The motion was then put and carried.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition in favour of the
total and immediate repeal of the corn-laws. The Noble Lord
did not say from what place.
EAST INDIA POSTAGE.

Mr. HUME moved for copies of the orders and regulations
respecting the carriage of letters and newspapers within the seve-
ral presidencies of the East India Company, stating the several
rates of postage for letters and newspapers in the inland com-
munication of the country, and the charge for letters and for
newspapers brought by sea from England and other places,
and for transmission to the several places in India, and a re-
turn of the aggregate amount of postage received by the East
India Company, at each of their Presidencies, and the expense
incurred for the service of the post ' at each Presidency, stating
whether the letters and dispatches of the public departments
are sent free of expense in India.
CAPE OF GOOD HOPE.

Mr. HUME moved that an address be presented to her Ma
jesty, praying that she would be graciously pleased to direct
that copies of all applications from the colonists of the Cape of
Good Hope, made to the Colonial-office, for a Representative
Government, be laid before this House, together with copies of
the answers thereto; that copies of all applications of a similar
import, from other British Colonies, be also laid before this
House. —Ordered.
Sir R. H. INGLIS moved that a Standing Committee
of Sixteen Members be appointed to assist Mr. Speaker, in
the direction of the library, and to whom shall be referred
all matters relating thereto :—Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Mr.
Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord J. Russell, Sir R. Peel,
Mr. Baring, Mr. Williams Wynn, Mr. Rutherfurd, Mr.
Shaw, Viscount Palmerston, Viscount Mahon, Colonel Fox,
Mr. Pendarves, Mr. Acland, Sir William Somerville, Mr. D.
Dundas, and Mr. .Monckton Milnes.
Mr. HUME hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would
have no objection to give a power to the Committee to print
on octavo paper, all such documents as they should think
proper to print. He thought that it would be well to make
such an experiment; he had no doubt that the motion
would meet with the concurrence of Hon. Members.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD objected to the printing of the docu-
ments in octavo, in consequence of the expense. It would be
shameful if the public money were expended in such a manner.
Dr. BOWRING felt that the appointment of the proposed
Committee would give great satisfaction to the House, and
the country. Similar steps had been taken in the French
Chamber of Deputies and the Belgian House of Representa-
tives. He did think that the libraries of the House might be
much enriched with valuable productions on commerce, sta-
tistics, politics, &c., if a mutual arrangement were entered
into between this and other Governments for the ex-
change of a copy of every work published in each country.
An arrangement of that sort was proposed by the French Go-
vernment with that of this country some years ago. If such
an arrangement were entered into, it would be the only really
wise treaty which they had ever made.—(Hear, hear.) He
had no doubt that the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Inglis)
would have no objection to entertain sach a proposition.
Sir R. INGLlS.—Certainly not.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
thought the matter had better be left to the consideration of
the House rather than come to any precipitate decision. It
was then decided that five should form a quorum.
PRIVATE BILLS.

On the motion of Mr. STRU IT, Mr. Horsman was ex-
cused from attendance on all private Rills.
CROWN PROSECUTIONS IN IRELAND.
On the motion of Mr. PIGOT, it was ordered, that all
minutes in the offices of the Treasury, the Home-office, the
offices of the Irish Government, and in the possession of the
Law Officers of the Crown, respecting the appointment of the
Solicitors of the Crown for Crown presecutions, and especially
respecting the appointment of Messrs. Seed, Fulkeir, and Elliott,
and all other minutes relatingto Crown prosecutions in Ireland
subsequent to the Treasury minute of 3d June, 1842, be laid
upon the table.
RETIRED LIST OF THE NAVY.
Admiral DUNDAS wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, the Secretary of the Admiralty, why it was that no reply
had been given to those officers of the Navy who had applied
to be pat upon the retired list ?
Mr. CORRY said that he was not aware that any reply
would be expected until the Government were in a position to
satisfy the many claims of those officers. When the navy
estimates were submitted to the House, the expenses of those
claims would he included.
Sir C. NAPIER wished to know whether the delay rested
with the Treasury or with the Admiralty in this matter? It
was well known that it was not intenied to persevere with
the retired list which had been published. He thought
that the letters of all those officers who had given in their
names ought to be returned to them, that they might not be
put into a bad position in making their application
to the new list, as they had already suffered sufficiently
by the delay.
Mr. CORRY was not aware that there had been any delay
—the matter would be settled as soon as the navy estimates
could be prepared.

_
ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the order of the (lay being read,
Mr. MORGAN J. O'CONNELL said the observations he
was about to make should be confined as closely as possible to
the subject of the debate. He would not, like the lion.
Members for Huntingdon and Kilmarnock, and the Noble
Lord the Member for Newark, travel into extraneous matter,
but he would confine himself to the strict merits of the question
before the House. He should not be ashamed to
say that his opinions had altered very much
upon this question within the last two months.
He was at one time prepared to adopt a moderate fixed duty,
not as a permanent measure, but as one which would be likely
to endure for a considerable number of years. But he should
confess that his opinions upon this subject had since then un
dergone a considerable change, particularly during the
period of the last autumn and winter, when the state
of the potato crop in Ireland was such as to
lead to the expectation of a speedy abolition
of all duty upon that necessary article of food—he
meant corn of every description. It might seem that his
opinion as an individual would be of little importance upon
this question, but he should say that his attention was first
attracted to it by the threatened famine in Ireland in the month
of October last. In that month the disease in the potato
first showed itself. He was speaking now in the hear-
ing of many Honourable Members from Ireland, and he
felt assured they could not say that he was dealing in
exaggeration, when he stated that it was confidently expected
in Ireland during that month that the ports would have been
thrown open. It was also a most remarkable fact that not one
of the most ultra protection papers said one word upon the
subject ; and it was not until the wise and prudent measure of
the Right Hon. Baronet had been announced that a cry
was raised by those papers, and he should say it was
one of the most strange cries he had ever heard.
Yes, a cry was raised to the effect that the famine was a
party famine, and not a real one, but one get up for the pur-
s
kpoissea
uopf
prestoringu tpho ew
eNr o
;b
ande L or
to
stuhectetshaenwellad,lneeri tetennhxmbotpee,areidtutebwf,dol
hiarindonL,diaottfenhrrt duoeeomdhrnewtsahtuinlitalhdet
even the high station, character, and moderate views of the
t
ciDt
mua kr
geo
eno
oft
fhLpeeaiArntisi
azt
flea rsni
sodhni
ooTut
shseoa
svcee
charges
amtrug,
had been most disastrous, for many men whom he knew, who
in October were prepared to enter into personal subscriptions,
or to take any other steps which the, exigency of the crisis
might require—these men, unfortunately, began to doubt the
existence of scarcity. There was one honourable excep.
otivoenr,
as
tothtehefacbtiooduys course, which
ichwhiicieh
rheefercreoduldwansot pascom-
posed of gentlemen who differed from him (Mr. O'Connell)
alludedon
the to the
contrary,Protestant
the
aelnld.ag_sa
I(,eliucna religion.re a h He
rr.alted statements ofthe facts
clergy
Protestant politicso; as
Ir,
clergy
that came under their notice in a fair and nnbiased manner
which reflected the highest credit on their philanthropy
unexaggerated
and Christian charity. —( Hear, hear.) But whatever might
have been their hopes in November last, what, he asked, was
the state of Ireland at present? They had heard the other
night from official authority, statements of most appalling
character, corroborated by the Hon. Member for Cork. The
Recorder for Dublin, the other night, asset ted that the distress
was exaggerated ; but he (Mr. O'Connell) submitted that if
such were the case, it was the bounden dray of that Hon.
Gentleman to prove it.—(Hear, hear.) He, however, con-
tented himself with snaking the assertion, but he shrunk from
the proof, as did his supporters—(Cries of " Hear, hear")—
and he (Mr. O'Connell) should tell him, that boldness of as-
sertion, without proof, would not pass current now-a-days.—
( Hear, hear.) The greatest boldness of assertion, delivered
with the most stentorian lungs, would not pass for truth. A
contradiction of the statement not being proved, there re-
mained the sad corroboration of the distress in the southern
parts of Ireland. This distress has been called a temporary
derangement, there is, however, great reason to fear that it is
not so. There is reason to fear that the disease which effected
the potato crop last year may have reached the seed from
which is to be produced the crop for the ensuing year. And
even if we could ensure ourselves that the potato crop of next
should be as abundant as the harvest of this year has been
deficient, we should still have to remember that we have ne
security whatever that this disease may not occur again. If
we have been spared so long from this sad visita-
tion it was through the goodne:s of Providence
rather than any means which we could have adopted
to prevent it. There were, also, two reasons why the people
of Ireland should not depend for their food upm that article.
The first was, that the potato, being a root, the disease was not
seen until the time came for taking them up. The other reason
was, that now the disease had made its appearance, there is no
knowing how far it may go, or when it may stop. He con-
sidered that the great reason why potatoes formed so prominent
a part of the food of the people of Ireland was the dearness of
bread and other corn. Fifty or sixty years ago oatmeal was
as much the food of the people of Ireland as of Scotland. We
are told by lion. Members opposite that the repeal of the corn-
laws will lower the condition of the labourers and tenant-
farmers. He did not know well how any ingenuity could pos-
sibly lower their present condition. The experience of the
past had taught him to distrust those predictions of ruin so
freely ra:,de by the alarmists upon every occasion when there
was a change in the commercial policy in this country. The
Right Hon, Gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade
had alluded to some of these last night. They were familiar.
The grazing farmer, and the producer of cattle of all kinds, in-
eluding swine, were to be ruined over and over again in 1842.
Three millions and a half of foreign swine were to come over

at ss. a head under the tariff of 1842. The ludicrous dispro-
portion between the anticipation and the reality he need not
point out. On every other article the same pre-
dictions were made. He had been surprised to find
at the great fair of Ballinasloe the great increase of samples and
the increase of price which had taken place within the last
three years. Three years ago the number of sheep sold was
63,283, and unsold 12,600, the average price being 21. 10s. In
1844 the number sold was 61,000 and unsold 8,000, the price
being 21. 75., while last year the number sold was 66,861, and
unsold only 2,900, the price having risen to 21. 13s. Ile
remembered a speech made in that House by Sir J. Emerson
Tenant, of three-quarters of an hour in length, crammed with
statistical facts, and proving to demonstration that the millers
of Ireland would be ruined if foreign flour were admitted into
the country on the same terms with that of England. Well
the Government did admit in 1842 foreign flour, and were the
millers ruined? On the contrary, there had been an increase of
ten per cent. in the importation of corn which entirely proved
how futile were the arguments which were then
urged. Nor could they complain of the course
adopted by the Right Honourable Baronet. They
all remembered 1829, when he set them a precedent
that he would never sacrifice the natienal interests to party
consistency.—( Hear, hear.) That precedent was set, and
y
r
my
tte
bsby
wpwhhi
themselves,
ocmattei
eeltduas:oddei
similar
al
that
hhvacdshoai
eol
aarm they
al
that
edmtdnkht
dtgelesVhuaitut
circumstancesvei
they
cpv eyteypenay,
wsoigtr_wota.
supported
• o_ui
ehehnldteed.
t(nhi,Ahst theaiht
boeinxstea,
Should
haioayah,
euihtcvnecseoenetaawngsr
ti
theyioeiihytovui nrinewlcidnnuasaohWienhti wasest
introduced
onhti
vtdpohfhtae—arnevt
ospih,ersrfdueteer
urshri
odgeruzem,
amupeypr
epdtdaeadhtormbdhertt
.)
o
had it been bhttl preluaattsoeyh4eins.
eet:dtdl
oyyhebotYcei
introduced by the Noble Lord on this side of the
t
House. After that avowal, had they a right to attack the
Right Hon. Baronet for his conduct on this occasion ? He be-
lieved that when this measure was carried, as it undoubtedly
would be, they would be again the humble servants of the
Right Hon. Baronet.—(" No,
no," from the Ministerial side.)
So they had cried out in 1629. They had then said, " Nus-
quam tuta fides," but they now sat on the same benches as the
Bight Hon. Baronet; besides, what could they do without
him ? Could they find any man amongst their ranks who
could supply his place ? He would read an extract from a
remarkable posthumous pamphlet of the letters of Sir Sidney
Smith, in which he said that he believed that neither of his
two uncles would survive for a single instant without Sir It.
Peel, and asked whether there was a Chartist in the British
empire who would not, on the first intimation of such an
attempt as the abolition of the Corn Laws, order a new suit of
clothes, and go round to his butcher and baker for an enlarged
credit? Was there a " Bear" on the Stock Exchange who
would not realise a large fortune when such a Ministry was
announced? It concluded by observing, that if he were a
revolutionist, he would like to see such a measure carried into
effect, as the effect would be most certainly a revolution, unless
it took a particular course, when it might indeed end in a laugh.
If it did not take that course, it would be productive of mis-
chievous effects from the Land's End to John O'Groat's, and
from one end of Ireland to another. He (Lord Ingestre)
supported the measure, as he believed that it would give pro-
tection against high prices, and a security for abundance
of food, and secure the honest trader against distress.
His impression was that it would tend to confirm the commer-
cial classes in the possession of the advantages they already en-
joyed, and give to industry its full reward. It had been as-
serted, that after the question was settled, something would
again arise to unsettle the public mind, and that there would be
as great a call for the renewal of protection as there was now for
its abrogation. If there were such a call, it would fifty years
hence be looked upon much in the same light as that call was
now looked upon which bad been made in the middle of the last
century, by the good people who regretted the alteration of the
calendar, for the Ministry to give them back the eleven days
they had lost; and historians wouldl ook upon it in very much
the same light as they looked upon a similar one in the
last century. A free import of commodities it was in their
power to give—free exports of those commodities other nations
might get. He would not _recur to the assertions which had
been made respecting Holland, Belgium, and Germany, and
other of the continental estates. He believed the measure to
be just and righteous in itself, and for those reasons he gave the
Ministry his warm and cordial support.—(Cheers. )
Colonel CONNOLLY perfectly agreed with his Hon.
Friend the Member for Dublin University, in the reports re-
specting the potato crops in Ireland, from his own observations;
and not only that, but from the observations of others in his
own country—in the county which he represented—he had
come to the conviction that such was the case. He was not
one who would rejoice in the miseries of his fellow-creatures,
or who was insensible to their wants, but he was greatly at a
loss to know what connexion this measure had to do with the
potato disease in Ireland.—( Hear.) At the very most this
disease could not hold out longer than four months, while
this measure, even if it should pass, could not possibly come
into full operation before the expiration of three years.—
(Hear.) Therefore, he could not understand what the ques-
tion had to do with the potato disease - and the
Irish people would be very badly off indeed if they should be
compelled to wait for relief until this measure should come
into operation. He did think that this measure would have a
most injurious effect upon this country as well as upon
Ireland, and, therefore, it should have his most stre-
nuous opposition.—( Hear.) He had had a long experience
of the people of Ireland as a country gentleman, and had an
intimate knowledge of their wants, and yet he would say lie
could not see how this measure would benefit them. He had
steadfastly opposed former measures of this sort, from the con-
viction that it would only increase the miseries of the people
of Ireland, for he had no doubt that cheap bread and low
wages were synonymous terms. In fact, it was at one time
stated that this measure was introduced with a view to en-
able the manufacturers of this country to compete with fo-
reigners, by creating low wages.---( Hear, hear.) This was,
in fact, the wolf in sheep's clothing which they had had be-
fore them sixteen years ago.—( Hear, hear.) In 1842 a simi-
lar measure was introduced, which he felt convinced would
have an injurious effect upon agriculture, and yet he supported
the Right Hon. Baronet, very much against his inclination,
because he was told it would be a beneficial measure. He
should say that he thought the agricultural body had exhi-
bited a manly, generous, and disintrested course in accepting
the minimum of protection, which they considered necessary
for the welfare of their order. In his opinion, they had re-
lieved themselves from the imputation of class interest, and the
ether sordid epithets which were generally expended on them
from the opposite side of the House, in default of sounder ar-
gument.—( A laugh.) At the time the Noble Lord, the Co-
lonial Secretary, proposed his measure, in reference to supply-
ing the colonies he (Col. Connolly) on hearing his explana-
tion gave him his warm and most cordial support.—( Hear.)
He considered that the extension of the markets of the ma-
nufacturers was the object sought by the present measure.
These markets, he thought, already outstripped the bounds of
European consumption, and, he must say, that he thought it
folly to give an impulse to that which has already gone too far.
—(Protectionist chee -s.) Domestic agriculture was to be made
to suffer in the hope of entrapping ethr nations into the pur-
suit of a policy similar to that proposed to be adopted by this
country—a system of free trade. The discontent and turbu•
lence which would necessarily arise out of this measure in Ire-
land were very dangerous, and were overlooked by her Majesty's
Government. The produce of Ireland had been quadrupled in
four years, and yet they were asked what had protection done ?
What was the origin of the great capital that had accumulated
in this country but protection? The Right Hon. Gentleman
proceeded to show that an abatement of crime had taken place,
and that an improvement was evident in the morals of the
people, consequent upon the increased comfort which
bad arisen of late in the habits of the people. He
introduced this subject in order to make them abandon
what was sneering called their class interests.—( Hear, hear. )
But the measure before them involved the principle that no
Protection should be granted to the tradesman or artizan who
paid taxes, and devoted his energies to the service of the
country. This was a monstrous principle, it was unchristian,
it was intolerable.—(Hear, hear.) This might be called
sentiment, it might be overwhelmend with every abuse that
language could invent, but while he had a soul in his body he
would never consent to inflict such an injury—one so inhuman
and unjust—upon the country.—( Hear, hear.) All their
fiscal regulations had been made on the basis of protection,
and could they ask the tradesman to pay his taxes, when they
at once removed that protection, and abated his ability to pay
by five and twenty per cent.? These were the opinions
of older and wiser heads than ;he could ever hope to be—they
were the opinions of Lord Ashburton, whose immense know-
ledge on every subject, both colonial and otherwise, no one
could be hardy enough to deny. He would say for his un-
happy country, that a very large proportion of the crime with
which it was disgraced, to his sincere regret, arose from the
indigence and poverty of the people. The measure now pro-
posed had a certain tendency to increase that distress. He
would apply to Ireland that which he bad said with regard to
Great Britain, that the charges consequent on the levying and
collecting the rates, together with the rates themselves, coupled
with the great charges on land, rendered their measure a de-
structive one. Ireland was capable of quadrupling her present
produce within four years, if a good market could be found for
it in Great Britain. They were about to abate the means of
such a country at the time when the poor-rates were rapidly
increasing ; and they would very shortly be under the necessity
of levying those rates by force, if they allowed this measure to
pass. At present the rates, he was happy to say, were paid
with the utmost punctuality. Did they think that the
farmers of Ireland were likely to be improved by
what the Honourable Member for Northampton called " the
grinding hand of political economy ?" Why could they not
continue their present system of relief by the means of public
works and loans? He had always voted for such measures, as
every farthing which had been lent to Ireland had been use-
fully employed, and had been repaid with thanks. He de •
plored the intention of the Government to started the only
means which could be beneficial to the Irish farmer. It was
very well for the Hon. Baronet to deride the different fears of
Hon. Members, that they could not sustain their present posi-
tion under the present measure. He for one could maintain
his position without taxing the labourer unjustly, and he
hoped that he never should live to see the time when that
money, which now went for the encouragement and
improvement of the agriculture of the British empire,
would be spent on the produce of a foreign coun-
try, and for the benefit of the foreigner.—(Hear, hear.)
He agreed with the Gallant Member opposite that the per-
nicious effects of this measure would be to throw off their
colonial connexion. It might be said that this was arguing
upon a contemptible economy ; but he would contend for it,
that it would be better upon a principle of economy to con-
ciliate Canada and Ireland. If he were to pursue this subject
question of the timber and shipping interests of the country ;
below
but there was a Gallant Member
the him, who would deal
at greater length, it would induce him to open up the whole
that he looked upon
this measure as
whole, he would say
Homen .aerayr
of the
suicidal of the best and dearest interests country, and
more effectively with that branch of subject • but on the
udestructive of her political power as a_greatnation.—( Hear.)
thoughton t the eanHaopuosieogoyn a was
questiondue fr
oonlf him,s
e 11
But the very importance of the
eying acted
as also the
question should plead his apology,
) Department, ir he
Right
fact of Hon.
Ilear, a-
s roud to et h •
pme
ee
vc he
r, y whichere
d it
for ord
importance l N
venturing G
as Ett
the
errtrespass
present.R E
Gentlemen, with whom he once w(a p
the part of political apostates.—
he delivered a few nights since, adduced a few tests, by which
( Lord Ingestre) gave hsi
also did in the case of every other
for that sincerity, as he
tHhoenComGmenetnlecmemanentthoef Secretarythatme3t forex extraordinary
Hon. Gentleman. But, perhaps, he would be allowed—
he proved his sincerity. He
though he had no abandonment of political principles to ac-
count for—he hoped he would be permitted to adduce one
test of the sincerity of his own opinions. It was well known
that a letter was written by a Noble relative of his, of
whom he should ever speak in terms the most respectful and
affectionate; and the opinions set forth in that letter, had
much weight attached to them, as his Noble relative was known
to have paid great attention to the. science of agriculture.—
(
Noble Friend had said that
Hear.) His Englishmen were
naturally of a persevering character. He said, that come
what difficulties there may, their energies would surmount
them all. Entertaining these opinions, he would no doubt
feel it his duty to give his support to the proposed measure.
In the early part of the debate, he (Lord Ingestre) was
struck by an observation made by the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary at War, to the effect that the present was not
a question of principle, and that it was ridiculous to cause
such a sensation throughout the country upon a
question of
commercial policy. lie considered that no question could be
snore a question of principle than that by which Hon. Mem-
bers had been returned to that House.—(Hear,hear. ) He
would bane considered it a question of principle if he had made
any promise to his constituents to support a measure, and
which he had afterwards abandoned.—(He.ar, hear.) We
have had already soma reoigUati9ll.s UPOA this question by lion.

Members who thought it a question of principle. Others have
written to their constituencies, or, taking advantage of differ-
ent local circumstances, have also resigned their seats. We
have had also a sort of manifesto from a Noble Lord, a Mem-
ber of the Government. He would say, upon that le,ter, that he
could not countenance the principles contained in that document.
He thought the House and the country had a right to call on
the Right Hen. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and the Noble Lord, the Member for Monmouth, to explain to
the country why they had re-joined the Cabinet, and why they
were now supporting measures which they thought so detrimen-
tal to the interests of the country. Did the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, recollect an
address of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the
Government, when in a somewhat similar position to the
present. He alluded to the address issued by Sir Robert Peel
to his constituents at Oxford in ]825, when he proposed to
abolish Catholic Emancipation. The Right Hon. Gentleman
then said, " You did not send me to Parliament to relinquish
Romish restrictions, but to maintain them, and to keep my
seat in violation of that honourable understanding would be
disgraceful. I therefore resign my seat into your hands."—
(Cheers. ) He (Lord Ingestre) thought the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was in a similar situation, and therefore
ought to adopt the same course.—( Cheers.) He ( Lord
Ingestre) thought the present measure had been intro-
duced at a most infectious time. The Honourable
Gentleman then quoted a passage from the Liverpool
Market note, which stated that the other day there had been a
large arrival of wheat from Ireland, and that the price of oat-
meal was on the decline. The Mark Lane Express made a
similar statement, and he would ask the House, how could they
imagine that a famine was approaching with such facts before
their eyes? The Right Hon. Baronet, in the course of two or
three powerful speeches which he had made on this subject, ad-
vocated it on the principle of its being a " final adjustment," but
he considered that the Right Hon. Baronet had a kind of at-
tachment to "final adjustments," as some ladies had to
" match making ;" but for his part, he considered that this
final adjustment would only be the commencement of a series
of adjustments, and he warned the Right Hon. Gentleman,:if he
gave way to his alarm respecting the approach of famine, on
a future day he would be obliged to state that the day on which
the corn-laws were repealed, instead of being his happiest,
was the most miserable of his existence. He asked what was
free-trade, and they would say it was buying in the cheapest
and selling in the dearest market. Different countries had
different produce ; and he thought that the true policy of free-
trade would be to allow every country to produce the particular
articles for which she was best calculated, and to interchange
our produce for it, giving them such articles as they themselves
could not produce. If a fair start were effected between the
different nations, he believed that the indomitable energies of
this country would surmount every obstacle and surpass all the
others. He had taken a period of six years, which he had
divided into two periods of three years each, and the result of
his observations would give remarkable evidence on this ques-
tion. The first three years he alluded to were from the years
1832 to 1835 inclusive, and during that period the price of
corn was very low and the duty was very high, so much so that
they might be called years in which foreign corn was pro-
hibited. He would not enter into the details of figures, but
he would state the fact that in these three years the imports and
exports increased very considerably, and in the three following
years, when the state of things. was directly opposite
when the price was very high and the duty was very
low—the imports and exports materially decreased.
Now, he (Lord Ingestre) had heard it said that because they
asked protection, they were monopolists.—( Hear, hear.) He
did not understand the meaning of the word.—(Laughter.)
What was it ? He did not argue as an agriculturist ;he argued
on general grounds ; he argued as much for the artisan toiling
in manufactures, as he did for the agricultural labourer. Could
they call that monopoly which employed four-fifths of the
whole population ?—(" Hear, hear," from the protectionists.)
He was not sure of the exact figures, but the number employed
in agriculture was about three hundred millions, and in manu-
factures about eighteen hundred millions.—(Laughter.)
[We presume the Noble Lord has slightly mistaken his figures,
and means 3,000,000 in the former instance, and 1,100,000 in
the latter.] Now, if the corn which was grown in this
country was displaced by the corn brought from abroad, they
must send either money or manufactures to pay for it, and so
much capital would be displaced, which would otherwise belong
to the corn-growers of this country. Four times the quantity
might indeed come from those countries, but they would not
probably in return consume more than one-tenth of the manu-
factures which might be required to pay for this corn. Thus
they would destroy that market—the home market—which
Adam Smith said was worth more than all other markets to-
gether. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated, on the other
night, that high wages and low prices often went together,
and that low prices and high wages were very often the case.
That might be very true, he believed it was true, but that had
arisen from extraordinary circumstances. Now, as he had
before stated, he thought that the present law had given great
prosperity to the country. He found two or three authorities
upon this point ; he found that the Right Hon. Baronet and
the Secretary at War admitted it ; but the Right Hon.
Baronet indeed afterwards said that the present alteration was
introduced in consequence of the success of his tariff of 1842.
He stated that he had been mistaken all his life, but that his
measure of 1842 had been so successful that he was encouraged
to go on in what might be called the same direction. The
Secretary at War, who had represented himself as a free trader
in disguise for many years, stated that the corn-law of 1842 was
a signal failure. He would ask the Right Hon. Baronet and
the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War
which of them was right?—(Hear, hear.) Under the
system of protection, he (Lord Ingestre) contended that there
had been greater steadiness of prices in England than had been
the case elsewhere. The fluctuation in this country had been
less than in other countries, and he saw no reason why the
principle should be at once abandoned, though as science ad-
vanced it might be gradually reduced. He supported the tariff
of 1842, because he- considered the previous system required
amending, but the present measure he thought uncalled for.
Respecting what had been said by the Hon. Member for Sunder-
land, the other night, about the low price at which wheat could
be imported, he gave some information. It was remarked, in
answer to what that Hon. Gentleman stated, that the wheat
which was imported at so low a price was inferior, but the best
test o f that was the weight ; the best wheat usually weighing
about 61 lbs. to the bushel. In corroboration of that Hon.
Gentleman's statement ;he held in his hand the average price of
foreign corn in bond in the port of London, between the years
of 1835 and 1845. In the month of January 1835, wheat was
imported at 225. per qr.; in 1836, at 225. ; in 1837 at 40s. ;
this was the average price of corn imported from all countries.
In 1838 the average price per qr. was 255. ; in 1839, at 355. ;
He had no quotations for 1840, 1841, and 1642. In 1843
the average price was 295. ; in 1844, 425. ; and 1845, 265.
These prices were correct, and was an answer to those Hon.
Gentlemen who stated that the landed proprietors could com-
pete with those low rates and keep their land in cultivation.
It was absurd to suppose that the present breadth of land would
remain under cultivation, and that to effect this there would
exist any security that present prices would be maintained.
He did not want to advocate the interests of one class and to
exclude the consideration of another, hut he wanted to advocate
to some extent the cause of the landowners, who would suffer
more than any other portion of the community by the adoption
of the measures promulgated by the Government. It had
been said repeatedly with great truth, both in print, at public
meetings, and to some extent in that House, that this was en-
entirely a landlords' question. There could be no doubt of it,
and he would prove that this was so. He would allow an ave-
rage of 22 bushels of wheat per acre, and it was well
known that five loads yielded 24 bushels of flour. Each
acre gave 19 loads of wheat, which yielded 340 loaves.
if these loaves were charged at 6.1. each, those nineteen
bushels would realise 170 s. He put the average rent at 255.
per acre. Now, if they were to abolish the whole of the rents
paid by the occupiers of land, the consumer of the bread which
they produced would not be saved more than one-sixth of the
present price of the quartern loaf. But if they were to abolish
those rents, what would become of the landowner?—how would
he be able to improve his land, and how would he be able to
purchase the goods of the manufacturer ? He objected to the
measure on the grounds he had stated—that it would be highly
injurious to Ireland ; in fact, they could not conceive an act
which would be more suicidal to the country, because to de-
stroy its best markets, which had been so much encouraged by
the trade of this country ; and he for one was at a loss to know
how they could benefit the pent le of Ireland by destroying the
best and most regular market they had. Then he considered
that the partial failure of the potato crop in Ireland was an in-
sufficient reason for destroying the principles on which
the commerce of this country had been conducted.
Why, if they were to send an abundance of corn
from foreign countries into Ireland, the people would have no
money to buy it. He also objected to the measure because it
would be a substantial injustice on the colonies, especially on
Canada. In 1843, when the Noble Lord the Secretary for the
Colonies (Lord Stanley), introduced the Canada Corn Bill, he
said that it was necessary, but they now proposed to admit corn
into this country under a system which would inflict great in-
jury on our colonial possessions. He gave the Right Hon.
Baronet credit for all sincerity in proposing this measure, but
he might rely upon it that neither he nor any other Minister
could ever succeed in governing this country without party—not
a party of that House, but of the country. He was much dis-
tressed to hear the Right Hon. Baronet recant at the red box
all the opinions which he had often heard him express upon
protection, but he wished to ask some of those Hon. Members
who had undergone so sudden and miraculous a conversion,
whether they would not have been equally vain
in their support of the Right Hon. Baronet had he
proposed a reasonable protection to agriculture.—( Hear, hear.)
In this country the aristocracy enjoyed no immunities, and if
he could venture to give an advice to the Noble Lord opposite
(Lord Morpeth) he would take the liberty of reminding ,
him, that the noble blood of Howard was flowing through his
veins, and also of reminding those who were acting with him,
that institutions, such as those they were now attaching them-
selves to, ought to be a warning to the members of the aristo-
cracy. —( Hear, hear.) Before he sat down he was anxious to
prove that the fever which was felt respecting the diseased
potatoes was unnecessary, as he held in his hand new potatoes
what were produced from the eyes of diseassd potatoes. (Here
the Hon. Gentteman, amidst great laughter, took from his
pocket a small packet of new potatoes.) These potatoes had
been grown by Mr. Chapman, a market gardener, and he
(Lord Ingestre) took this opportunity of mentioning that
fact; he hoped in future, the potatoes would be turned to
better use, and that it would be :no longer said that all
potatoes were diseased. With these observations he would
conclude
was heard.
y thanking the House for the attention with which
he

Mr. TRELAWNY would ask the Noble Lord what cer-
tainty there was that the potatoes which he had produced were
grown from diseased seed? The proper course for Honourable
Members to have adopted was to have proposed an amendment
that the ports be opened. They seemed, however, to fancy
that their views were better advanced by the criminatory lan-
guage which they had all along adopted. Ile would ask, had
they not at first used the cry of "Protectioa to agriculture,"
and then, finding that they had no hold on the affections of the
country, had they not changed their cry to " Protection to
native industry?" He could understand in some measure the
line of conduct pursued by Hon. Members, if they were pre-
pared to say that they would put a duty on their exports as
well. It appeared to him, however, that Honourable Mem-
bers entirely lost sight of the great point on the present
question. They had spent a great deal of time ar.d a great
deal of eloquence in vituperating the Right Hon. Baronet, but
in his opinion they lost sight of the great question which they
ought to have kept in view. That point was whether the
repeal of the corn-laws would be really iNjurious to the
agricultural interest. He thought that the protectionists were
acting unfairly towards the Right Hon. Baronet, and he
thought they were acting somewhat illogically too in charging
him with the criminality of having changed his opinions. They
complained of him as if this was an act of treachery, after having
entertained other opinions for a great number of years. What
would be said of a philosopher who, after believing in certain
dogmas for a long period, found reason to differ from his
previous sentiments, if he refrained from acting on the altera-
tion in his conviction,? Ile read the speeches, he thought all
the speeches, which had been made on this subject, and he had
been unable to meet with anything that could convince him of
the utility of retaining protection. He thought it was a pity
that the aristocracy of this country, an ancient aristocracy as
they were, should rest all their usefulness to the conntry on a
mere question of rent. The Right Hon. Baronet, and the
Noble Lard the Member for London (Lord Juhn Russell),
should throw their previous conceptions overboard, and pro-
vide those measures only which were likely to be for the
general benefit. In the case of a great war with Amer:ea, he
should be very sorry to trust the safety of the country to the
talents of all the Dukes. A few years might make this mea-
sure not only convenient but necessary. It appeared to him
that the coarse of observation indulged in by the Honourable
Member opposite was not a constitutional course. He coal

not conceive how it could be constitutional for that party of
which the Hon. Member was a supporter, to send up here
certain Members as delegates from the protectionists.—(No,t
no.) Had it not been stated that they were pledged to suppord
the agricultural interest, as it had been called ; but then ha
not the Right Hon. Baronet apposite been bound by a higher
pledge--a pledge to legislate for the benefit of the whole
country ?—( Hear, hear.) And, if so, then, no minor pledge
could be regarded as such. He had heard a great deal about
the League ; now, he had never been a member of that body,
but he was aware that it had done a great dead of good ; and
if the Government had not introduced some such measure as
tkat before the House, he should have joined it.
Mr. PACKE said that though he had for many years the
honour of a seat in that House, yet he did not feel at all times
anxious to take a part in its debates. But the present question
was one of such importance, and, in his opinion, so ruinous
to the country, that he could not consent to give the measure a
silent vote. He was not going to follow in the course of obser-
vations of the Hon. Gentleman who sat down, but he would
confine himself to the snbject-matter ef the debate. It was
with very great pain he found himself obliged to differ
from an Administration, which, since he had the ho-
nour to enter the House, he cordially and invariably
had supported.—( Hear, hear.) He did not for a moment
impute to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's
Government a single impure motive. He believed the Right
Hon. Gentleman was actuated by the sincerest conviction of
the necessity of the course of policy he was pursuing, but, as
he (the lion. Member conceived that course to be ruinous to
the country, he felt himself compelled to make a few passing
observations. One of the most startling assertions which the
. Right Hon. Baronet had made, and one that struck hint par-
ticularly, was, that the course of policy then about to be pur-
sued by the Ministry was a Conservative policy.—(Hear, hear,
from the protectionists.) The Right Hon. Baronet then stated
that he could not charge himself with having acted incon-
sistently
with true Conservative principles, and suppliantly
inquired if to put down agitation was an act inconsistent with
true Conservative principles ? He (Mr. Packe) could not
conceive how the Right Hon. Baronet could thus address the
House, when he must have been axare at the time
that the agitation with which the Anti-Corn-law League had
menaced the country during the seven preceding years, had in-
creased to a greater extent during the present year. If he
( Mr. Packe) rightly understood the meaning of the term " true
Conservative policy," he should say that it meant an adherence
to fixed principles. And if he understood the meaning of the
principles upon which the Hon. Member on the opposite side
acted, he should say it was an ever-varying principle.—(Pro-
tectionist cheers.) The Noble Lord the Member for the city
of London has, by the sacrifice of his arinciples, been enabled to
keep his party together, while the Right Hon. Baronet has
changed his principles and sacrificed his party. He had heard
men say that we should not rake up old speeches, but it was
by these, he maintained, that " true Conservative principles,
could be proved. However unpalatable it would be to some
Hon. 'Members, he must trespass on their attention for a short
time, while he read a few extracts from some former speeches.
When the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) brought
forward a motion, he said to Hon. Members on this side of the
House, " If you will leave us alone to settle this matter, I
shall be much obliged to you." He (Mr. Packe)
should like Honourable Gentlemen on the opposite side
of the House to leave him and those with whom he acted to
settle the present question with the Right Honourable Baronet,
and he had no doubt they would be able to arrange the matter
satisfactorily. The Hon. Member went on to say that all
Parliaments had been in favour of protection, and that the
Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) had always
been the consistent advocate of the repeal of the corn-law.
In 1838 the Hon. Member ( Mr. Villiers) moved for a com-
mittee to inquire into the laws relatirg to the importation
of foreign corn. Upon that, as well as on a subsequent occasion
in 1839, that motion was opposed by the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head of the Government, the Noble Lord, the 'Mem-
ber for the city of London, and the Hon. Member for Man-
chester (Mr. Gibson). At the assembling of the Parliament in
the commencement of her Majesty's reign, the Hon. Member
for Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller) stated that the House was at
present ignorant of the principles upon which the Right Hon.
Baronet meant to carry on his Government, if he succeeded to
office. He (Sir R. Peel) then made the following
declaration—" I would not shrink from the expresssion
of my opinions. If I saw reasons for changing my
course I would do so. I have not changed my opinions, not-
withstanding :the combination which has been formed against
the present corn-laws, either for the purpose of procuring their
total repeal or the substitution of a fixed duty in place of the
present sliding scale. Notwithstanding the present agitation
which is going forward, I do not hesitate to avow my adhesion
to the opinions exp..e sed by me last year. On thebth of June
following this announcement, when 628 Members were pre-
sent, a division was taken, and a vote of want of confidence in
the Ministers was carried, by a majority of one, owing to this
declaration of the Right Hon. Baronet. At the accession of
the present Government they found themselves in a majority of
91 Members, who were pledged to support the corn-lawin-
tact. The Right Hon. Baronet had said, when the Hon.
Member for Wolverhamton had brought forward his measure in
1813, " 1 think that any alteration in laws of this kind are to
be deprecated. I think also that the existing laws afford us a
fair adjustment of the question. He would go on to state what
the Right Hon. Baronet had stated during the followingyear :
—" I have a strong feeling, speaking generally, that agriculture
is entitled to protection. It is entitled to protection from a
sense of justice, for the land sustains peculiar burdens. Look
at the population of Ireland, which depends entirely on its agri-
cultural produce. lam not prepared to alter the amount
of protection." He was certain there was not a
man, either in that House or oat of the House, who
prior to the 22d of January, could have been prepared for the
strange and sweeping change which the Right Hon. Baronet
had proposed in the corn-laws. He would now advert to the
reasons which had been brought forward in support of the
proposed measure. Firstly, the principal reason was the
failure in the potato crop. He must say that that subject was
almost worn threadbare, so that it was hardly necessary to
show why a new project should overthrow a fixed principle of
200 year's standing.—(Hear.) The second reason was, that
the prosperity of the last three years was a sufficient induce-
ment for a further relaxation of duties. In his opinion, the
prosperity that now abounded under a moderate protection
was a great reason why it should be continued, and not de-
stroyed. Then, again, they had been told, that the wages of
labour were not dependent on the price of corn. As far as
he could remember, he was perfectly persuaded, that the wages
of agricultural labour depended very nearly on the price of
corn. In his own neighbourhood such was the case ; and
whenever there was a sensible rise in the price of corn, the
amount of wages were always affected by it. In the next
place, they had been told that the abject of the measure was
to reconcile the differences and animosities between the dif-
ferent classes of her Majesty's subjects. Now, whether that
was an allu ion to the Anti-Corn-law League he could not say;
they were, however, only like soldiers in a theatre, hat kept
i
marching round and round the stage, n order to give an ap-
parent multitude to their numbers. The Hon. Member then
briefly alluded to the compensation which the proposed
measure prepared for the agriculturists, and said he
would allude to a circumstance in which the Irish Members
on his side of the House were somewhat concerned. He had
seen it reported in the public prints that the Noble Lord, the
new Secretary for Ireland, had satisfied the Noble Lord, the
Member for London, of the liberal policy which the Govern-
ment were about to adopt towards Ireland ; consequently, he
would say, if the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, had
satisfied the Noble Lord, the Member for London, of the mea-
sures which were to be brought forward for Ireland, the Irish
Members ought to be on the look out with respect to the in-
tended policy towards that country. The Hon. Gentleman
then concluded, by thanking the House for their kind attention
to the observations which he had thought proper to address
to them.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
feared he must commence with the opening sentence which had
characterised the speeches of most of the Hon. Gentlemen
who had addressed the House—namely, at that protracted pe-
riod of the debate he could not be expected to offer any new
observations which could claim a right to occupy their atten-
tion. He could assure the House, that under these circum-
stances he would confine his observations to the narrowest
limits which it was possible for him to do, in the discharge of
the duty he had undertaken to perform. As to the question
itself, it would be unnecessary to enter into any argument,
after it had been so ably discussed by so many Hon. Gentle-
men, and especially after the great ability which had been dis.
played in treating of it by the Right Honourable Baronet
at the head of the Government, and by the Pre-
sident of the Board of Trade; who had left no
arguments untouched, and who had completely refuted argu-
ments which had been brought forward on the other side.
—(Cries of " No, no. ") Yes, they had established
beyond the power of contradiction, the fact, that the removal
of restrictions and the progressive development of the relaxa-
tion of protective duties, had, in every instance, been attended
with results permanently beneficial and advantageous to the
country.—( Cheers.) Before he entered upon the general
question, he considered it to be his duty to respond to the calls
which had been made upon him by many Hon. Gentlemen in
the course of the debate, to state the grounds on which he was
disposed to support the measure that had been brought forward
by his Right Hon. Fl iend. Some Hun. Gentlemen had sup-
posed that he differed from his colleagues on the measure
measure
the House, and that he was going to support
Heelieved
that this opinion on their part, after the statements
the Ta
against the convictions of his own principles.
he
should make to the House, would be entirely disabused.—
(Hear)—and would prove as fallacious as the arguments which
they adduced against the measure itself.—(Cheers.) He
would simply state to the House the course which he had
adopted. It was known that during the middle of October a
general opinion prevailed as to the failure of the potato crop in
Ireland and in this country, and that disease had very greatly
extended itself; and on the Ist of November the Government
deliberated as to the measures necessary to be adopted under
the circumstance of the case. He (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) had been informed by his
Right Honourable Friend that he had intended, either
to open the ports by an Order in Council, or to relax the duties
on corn by a Legislative enactment. On both of these ques-
tions he had differed from his Right Hon. Friend. He thought
that in such a case the direct interposition of the Government
by an act of the kind would be an interference with the
established law of a dangerous nature, and an act which could
only be justified by an immediate and urgent necessity. He
could not avoid perceiving that the state of Ireland was not
one that required that stringent course of action. He thought
that the matter might be dealt with by legislative enactment
at a future period, and that it was not expedient to open the
ports at that time. It was impossible for him not to consider
that the Government were not called upon for a suspension of
the corn-lams for so long a period as that suspension was con-
fsoidrewraerddnteocetshsearoyiterHioirs aedoovisceetiotoentehees Goof
the
vernmsetenpt wmaisl,ieth he
o they
ky
awtetrhe aatbpoeurti
period
wt aokoe. ld
hlatvwe ahs h e
eoi s opinionto
suspendth atthteo
due
een operationthe
the law. It had further been stated that on previous occasions
the suspension of the law had not entailed any evil consequences
whatever. He knew that in antecedent periods of our history
the ports had been opened by an Order in Council,
but the effects of that measure had always been represented
to have been injurious to trade and commerce, and were
only to be justified by the emergency of the case. He had
always understood that the benefit of the sliding scale, which
was introduced in 1828, was intended to produce a sufficient
supply of corn, without having recourse to these continental
interferences on the part of the Government, which had been
found on all former occasions to be hurtful and inconvenient ;
and also he could not put out of his consideration, that, on all
occasions on which recourse had been made to an Order in
Council, the benefit of the sliding scale was opposed to the fixed
duty. The great argument that had been brought forward
against a fixed duty was that when the time of trial and famine
should arrive, it would be necessary to depart from the principle
of the law, and allow of this interposition of the Government in
Council, in order to admit corn into the country.—(Hear. )
Finding, then, that the consequences of these interpositions
must necessarily terminate in the abrogation of the law, an
additional argument of the strongest nature was furnished why
that abrogation should not be effected by an Order in Council.
Considering also the existing feelings on the part of a great
bady of the community, it was necessary to leave the
)
power of the Government unshackled, at the meet- I
ing of Parliament, to pursue any ultimate measureaot
to
which it might tie considered necessary .
For this reason therefore, he opposed the propeeitioetno
admit
foreign corn into the country through the medium of an
t 1 the an alternative Government. proposed •
ternative ;he suggested in Council. But his Right Hon. friend at the. head of the
imme-
diate assembly of Parliament for the purpose of effecting the
of a legislative enactment. To
opening of the ports by e_
eren grounds. the preposition
objection rested upon
that proposal he equallydarnoldaeir'esdt an objection, ahough his ob-

was submitted to the Cabinet on the Ist of November. At
that time the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, and a number of
other parties had received accounts of the fearful
extent of the potato failure in Ireland. Those ac-
counts rested upon considerable authority, and the statements
were made so as to create considerable alarm. At that period
of time the Irish crop of potatoes had not been dug, and there
were no means of actually ascertaining the extent of the cala-
mity. He felt, then, that with those differences as to the ex-
tent of the calamity which was coming upon the country, it
was probable that there might be prevalent a doubt upon the
minds of others as to the expediency of at once opening the
ports. It was his duty to withhold giving his assent to any
legislative measure which might affect the corn-laws until time
were allowed for a further investigation of the subject. That
the extent of the misfortune then coming upon Ireland was
nothing like that which they now knew to be the real fact,
it was impossible to doubt. He thought that when the
questions was before the public there would be no doubt of a
more general concurrence in the support of some measure
for the suspension and subsequent alteration of the corn-
laws at that time, than if they proceeded at once to thedis-
cussion of a subject which had now created so much alarm.
For those reasons, therefore he entered his protest against
the immediate assembling of Parliament for the purpose of
suspending the corn-laws.—(hear, hear.) He might have
been wrong, or he might have formed an erro-
neous judgment upon the question which was then
submitted to his consideration. He saw, or at least he thought
he saw, that the danger with which we had to deal was a
question which would not be encountered until at least an
early period in the spring. He felt the greatest anxiety that
this question, which so largely affected the interests of the
people of this country, should be supported under its diffieni-
ties by the greatest possible number of How. Gentlemen in
that House, as well as by the general opinion of the people of
this country—( Hear, hear)—and therefore it was that he pre-
ferred delaying the commencement of operations, in order that,
when they were commenced, they might be carried with a
weight and an authority which would put an end to all cavilling
and opposition.—( Cheers.) He had been told, that in refusing
to accede to the proposition for the Order in Council, he be-
trayed a want of that coldness which a Minister ought to
feel in dealing with great commercial questions. He might be
told, perhaps, that he was in want of that sagac'ty which ought
to have enabled him to see so long before-hand the extent of
the calamity with which Ireland was likely to be afflicted. He
might be told also that he had manifested yet more want of that
knowledge of his Hon. Friends near him, and that he ought
to have known that they would have willingly assented to the
I suspension of the corn-law Act of 1842, if the proposition had
been submitted to them. He might on all those points have
been in error, hut this he would say, after the lapse of the
periods which had since intervened, and after reflecting upon
the course which he then thought it his duty to take and ad-
vise, and which he thought in his conscience was the best
that he could give ; he did not feel, after a reviewal of
the transaction, that if it were now presented to
him in the shape in which it then stood, he should give a dif-
ferent opinion from that which they gave.—( Hear, hear.)
After this difference in the Government upon this particular
point, it was agreed that the question should be postponed for
a limited period, in order that further information with re-
spect to it might be accessible to every one. That further
period brought with it undoubtedly the strongest possible argu-
ments for a change in the corn-laws. They had very shortly
afterwards laid before them a report of the Commissioners who
had been sent into Ireland to inquire into the nature and ex-
tent of the calamity. The Commissioners in that report de-
tailed their views of what was the extent of the crop of potatoes,
and what was the limited amount upon which the people would
be compelled to subsist. The accounts of those Commissioners
were confirmed by actual experience when the potato crop
came to be dug in different parts of the country, from
which it appeared that in some places one-half,
in others one-third, and in others three-fourths had been abso-
lutely destroyed. Nay, there was a general and universal feel-
ing, and one which he believed was founded in justice—that the
preservation of the inhabitants of some pants of that country
depended entirely upon the fineness or wetness of the weather.
—(Hear, hear.) The case then resolved itself into the reliev-
ing of Ireland from the difficulties with which it was then in
his mind encompassed ; and although he felt deeply that the
adoption of the course which his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R.
Peel) had now submitted to the House, would be attended with a
dissolution of party connexion—( Opposition cheers )--and would
probably cause his ( the Chancellor of the Exchequer), separa-
tion from many of those with whom he had for many years
been connected, and whom he hoped he might still be permitted
to call his Honorable Friends—( Hear, hear)—although he felt
that that might be the necessary consequence of the measure;
yet he also felt that there were duties imposed upon one holding
the responsible situation—(Loud Opposition cheers)—which
went beyond the feelings of party and of class, and that
being convinced in his own mind that an alteration in the corn-
laws had become a question of inevitable necessity, be was pre-
pared to give his opinion that under the circumstances which
he had mentioned, the corn-laws ought to undergo some
change. At the same time, he felt that that change had been
better effected by other persons than his Right Hon. Friend at
the head of the Government—( Hear, hear)—and he entirely
concurred in the resignation of that charge into the hands of
others, who, from their long maintenance of the opinions by
which they were actuated, were better fitted to discharge the
duties, and perhaps better calculated to carry this measure.—
(Hear, hear.) He would only say, that when he tendered to
her Majesty the resignation of his office, he had no more idea
that he should have had to deal with this question in any other
capacity than that of a private individual than he had of any
other probability of which he had not the slightest anticipation
or idea.—( Hear, hear.) If Hon. Members doubted the ve-
racity of his statement, he could, by most complete evidence,
o • ve to them that he did not at that time contemplate
anything of the kind.—( Hear, hear.) He did, indeed,
at first entertain some doubts as to the time when
the measure for the alteration of the corn-laws should be brought
forward, but as to the necessity of some alteration in the corn-
laws, he entertained not the slightest doubt.—( Cheers.) He
thought that such a course would be best calculated to promote
the interests of the country.—( Hear, hear.) He was, there-
fore, at that time prepared to vote upon this question in his pri-
vate capacity, in the same manner as he was now about to do in
the capacity of a Member. On these grounds, therefore, he
thought that there was no inconsistency in his conduct when he
resumed office.—(Cheers.) That was, in a few words, a short
history of the transaction as far as he was concerned. He
trusted it would satisfy his Hon. Friends; and although diffe-
rences might exist between them and himself with regard to
' this question, he yet hoped that they would be ready to believe
him when he said that, in pursuing the course which
he had, he was doing what was best calculated to promote
the interests of the country.---( Hear, hear.) A Noble Lord,
a Member of that House, had told him, that in his opinion, he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had acted inconsistently
with his duty to his constituents, which he had the honour to
represent when he accepted office after he had tendered his re-
signation.—( hear, hear.) And he called upon him to make
some explanations to his constitutents at Cambridge.—
( Hear, bear.) Now, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
thought that the duties of a representative differed entirely
from those which had been mentioned by the Noble Lord. He
did not pretend to say that if Honourable Gentlemen at par-
ticular elect.ons had pledged themselves, wider all circum-
stances, and upon all occasions, tomaintain particular laws, they
might feel themselves bound to adhere to those pledges and
opinions. But he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) stated
to his constituents generally his views upon particular subjects,
if these subjects came under discussion ; he, however, re-
served to himself the fullest right to take upon all other
questions that must come under consideration in Parliament that
course which he thought most conducive to the general interest.
And however it might be sanctioned by some great examples,
however it might be conformable to the views which some
Gentlemen who had pledged themselves might take, he for one
did not admit that, it was in any respect the duty of a repre-
sentative, acting in opposition to his constituents upon particular
laws that might be submitted to the consideration of the
House, to make that opposition the ground of his resigning, or
even tendering his resignatior, if required to do so by his con-
stituents. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had; given
no pledges with respect to the corn-laws at any period
to his constituents. He had never expressed any sentiment
that might be construed into an expression in favour of a per-
manent adherence to the existing laws, which Hon. Gentlemen
seemed to have given to their constituents when they were
elected. And on those grounds, therefore, he thought it would
be abandoning the character of a representative in l'arliament.
lie thought it would be depriving himself of the capacity of
acting in accordance with the views of the constituency of the
whole country (which they undoubtedly really represented) if
he were to be bound on all occasions to vote in accordance with
the views of his immediate constituents.—(Cheers.) Now, so
far he was sure he detained the House too long upon matters
which related to himself personally—(Cheers)—there
ieh
was
nothing, he was sure, more painful or less agreeable upon h
to speak, and he would now, therefore, proceed to address him-
self shortly to thTehesquuhejseteiotnwlwiihchich was immediately
eythebme;
fore the ihna's beforeedi a t
.t
was one, as it appeared to him, which might
wasight simplybef iurdtobe
comprised in a very narrow compass. I
whether
respect lie coursete th e whichrelaxation they
ohfadfor
m years they
e would p
rmoLkeed
epdroignr,
pro-
tectiveso duties; or whether they would he content, not merely
ewssithm
to remain where they were, but to retrograde in the course
which they had hitherto taken. Ile knew that in the course of
this debate many Hon. Gentlemen had supported the Go-
vernment up to this period in the course which they h
pursued, and yet they declared that they were bound to with-
draw their support upon this question. Those Hon. Gentle
men argued that if this measure were passed, the interests of this
country would be injured. They argued that what the Go-
vernment had hitherto done was exactly what was judicious
and just, and, therefore, that for all time things should remain
as they now were. But when he considered the arguments of
some of his Hon. Friends near him—when he heard
that some of his Honourable Friends had stated
that the corn-law which was passed two years ago ought
to be suspended—when he heard that sentiment cheered as if it
were generally assented to by several Hon. Gentlemen of that
House—when he heard other lion. Members state their opi-
nions that the corn-law might be modified in certain parti-
culars so as to meet the inconvenience which resulted to the
country from its present shape—when he heard other Hon.
Gentlemen who went some steps further and some who did not
go quite as far upon these particular questions, he thought that
they would find it very difficult to account for the reason why
they resisted the motion which was then before the House.—
( Cheers.) lion. Members had said that this measure would
materially injure the shipping interest.—( Hear, hear.) But
he could show to the House that since the protective duties had
been removed with regard to the shippiug trade that trade had
become far more prosperous.—( Cheers.) The Hon. Member
for Donegal was one of the Hon. Members who had joined
Hon. Members in this statement, and instanced particularly the
Irish trade ; but in the year 1842 the tonnage of trading
vessels belonging to that country was 2,600,000 in 1842,
and in 1845, 3,669,000, being an increase of 1,000,000.
It had been stated by Hon. Blernbers opposite that the in-
crease of British shipping employed in the Baltic trade had borne
no proportion to the increase in our department of the shipping
interest, and they argued from this circumstance that the re-
moval of the duty upon Baltic timber had thrown the shipping
trade into the hands of foreigners, anti that they bad in
tbcon-
sequence been benefitted more than the shipping f
countrye—( Hear.) He considered this fact to be. toss
e°s_treocn.e
reason why the present measure should be carried
eit.leouru,geL.
He knew of no mode in which lie could give that
proportion of British
Members would see, if they looked at
comparedtheeproii
with other ar-
ticles.ment mere effectually than by passing those measures. 110 .
shipping engaged in carrying corntadsiate
it must be sent by
When the demand is immediate,
which could return laden
ar-
riving freighted with merchandise,llle:nhers looked at the proportion
ships that are in port—they cannot' wait for Britsih ships
with corn. And if Hose
there was a vast prepon-
He thought, nothing
between the number of Britisitshaastad foreign ships employed in
this trade, they would see
derance. in favour of foreign shipping.
chance to the shipowners whose
advocated than by pasting the present
The number of ships laden with corn which passed
measure.
I was I 118 foreign, and 501 British through the Soul], ,
icnottellr'fistasfill'iradd baeenbet
ships.
—( Hear, hear.) If, then, he wished to tr,Yore the employ-
ment of British shipping, let them give an increased freedom
of trade to commerce, and by this means cause those articles
which are casually sent to become regular freight. Another
objection which is raised to this measure is that the diminution of
the duty upon Baltic timber would injure the Canada trade, and
our other colonies, which sleseald be the ob',ect of our tenderest
care. The Hon. Member who brought forward this argu-
ment had fallen into an error, which had been largely shared
in the course of this debate. They imsgined that advantages
given to one were necessarily disadvantageousto others, whereas
a a inverse would be the ease. What had been the effects of the
alteration in the late tariff as regarded the Werth American