The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-11 00:00:00

BOARD OF ORDNANCE.

On the order of the day for going into Committee on the
Ordnance Estimates being read,
Mr. HUME moved the following resolution—" That a Se-
lect Committee be appointed, to inquire into the conduct of
the Board of Ordnance, in their refusing to inquire into al-
leged malversation of the public stores by officers et that depart-
ment, and into the cause and manner of dismissal of Daniel
Tonor, a pensioner for good service in the Artillery, from her
Majesty's service, without allowing the said D.
.Tonor to be pre-
sent at the Court of inquiry, or to be heard on his own defence. '
The only charge against Daniel Tonor was, that on coming
into the pay-office he was desired by one of the clerks to take
off his hat. lie refused, however, to do so, as not being in
accordance with usage to do so. This individual was afterwards
dismissed on this trumpery charge, which ought never to have
been made, as it is even now not customary to take off their hats
in that office. It appeared also that twenty-three pieces of
ordnance were stolen from the arsenal at Woolwich, and that
Beard afterward refused to inquire into the malversation, al-
thi ugh Daniel Tonor offered such information as would tend
to the detection of the culprits. He complained of the depart-
ment not being conducted in a proper manner, and he thought
that a committee of inquiry was necessary. He would, there-
fore, move that a Committee be appointed to investigate all
the circumstances.
Colonel PEEL said the motion of the Hon. Member con-
tained two serious charges against the late Master General of
the Board of Ordnance. First, for refusing to inquire into al-
leged malversation of the public stores, and the dismissal of
Daniel Tonor without being heard in his own defence. As to
the first a Committee of inquiry was appointed by the Board,
all the evidence was heard and examined into, and Mr. Jones,
for certain irregularities, was dismissed the service. Daniel
Tonor was heard as prosecutor, and towards the close of the
inquiry he was asked whether he had any other charges
against Mr. Jones, and the answer was, " Not at present,"—or
whether he had any charge against any other individuals in the
service, and he said, " None whatever." Till the present
time he (Colonel Peel) had not heard of this offer by Daniel
Tonor. As for the second charge, two letters were sent by
the clerk of the pay-office to the civil officer, com-
plaining of incivilities on the part of Daniel
Tonor ; that he alone, when an order had been
made that all the labourers, in coming into the office, should
take off their hats, refused to comply with it. The case was
referred to the Board at Woolwiek, and Lord Bloomfield, on

hearing it, ordered that Daniel Tonor should be imme-
diately suspended; and, as he ( Colonel Peel) thought, pro-
, perly so, when insubordination was manifested in the service.
He said he had stated the facts of the case, and would certainly
not object to the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry.
Colonel FOX said that he believed the late Board !IA acted
most properly in a case of such gross insult, and that the pre-
' sent Board would have acted in precisely the same way.
Mr. HUME, said that the Gallant Gentleman (Colonel
Peel) had made no answer or explanation about the refusal of
evidence offered by Tonar in the case of the theft of the
pieces of ordnance.
Colonel PEEL said the Hon. Member asked why there was
no inquiry made ; a letter was sent to the storekeeper, the
storekeeeper directed him to address his letters to the secretary
of the board, which was the only regular way.
Mr. HUME said he had a letter of the 29th January, re-
fusing to hear evidence on it.
Captain PECHELL said this motion reminded him of
several petitions presented by himself from a gentle-
man at Fort William, who had in vain requested
a Board, in order that he might substantiate some charges of
malversation by a certain barrack-master at Fort William. He
could not recal the particulars, but the Gallant Colonel had
it in his power to ie;er to the particulars, which had several
times appeared in petitions belore the House, although he
(Captain Pechell) was sorry to say in vain. He hoped, how-
ever, that the present Board would act differently from their
predecessors,

Mr. HUME said, considering the late period of the session,
he would withdraw his motion for a Committee, but he was
sorry at the result of the present discussion.
Mr. HENLEY said the explanations which had been offered
were far from satisfactory.
Mr. WILLIAMS then moved, pursuant to notice, for a
copy of the circular (No. 58) issued by the Lords Commission-
ers of the Admiralty, and the accompanying memorandum,
dated the 13th day of November, 1830, which gives authority to
flog seamen and marines serving in her Majesty's ships and vessels
of war. A copy of the 9th charge, preferred by Lieutenant
Walker, commanding her Majesty's steamer Alban, before the
Court-martial assembled on the 12th day of May, 1834, to
try Captain Pigot, of her Majesty's ship Barham, and the war-
rant for flogging a seaman of the Alban sent by Cap-
tain Pigot with an order to Lieutenant Walker, both
dated the 28th day of May, 1832 ; also of the minutes of the
evidence in support of the charge, and for the defence. A copy
of the minutes of evidence given before the court-martial as-
sembled, on the 9th day of August, 1844, to try Lieutenant
W'. H. Bridge, of her Majesty's steamer Cormorant,
and of the charge preferred against him, and the
judgment of the court thereon. And that an bumble
address be presented to her Majesty, that she will be
graciously pleased to direct that the opinion of the law officers
of the Crown be obtained as to the legality of the sentence
passed in each of the cases of the courts-martial, and also as to
the legality of the proceedings of the one on Lieut. Bridge.
Mr. WARD said, his object was to show what could be
done to remedy the grievance complained of. He was most
anxious to give the subject his decided consideration. He
would, however, give no pledge as to what course should be
pursued.
The motion was then withdrawn.
On the &MAKER leaving the Chair
CHELSEA PENSIONERS.
Captain L AYA RD said, that he trusted it had not escaped
the recollection of the House that within a short period he had
presented four petitions from the out-pensioners of Chelsea
Hospital, praying the House to take into consideration that
which they stated they considered a great hardship, and in
which he fully agreed, viz., that five per cent. should be
stopped from their pensions, particularly as such stoppages
were not enforced, either from the marines or sailors; and why
the soldier should be stopped, and the others not, to him was
unaccountable. Not that he (Captain Layard) wished the
five per cent. to be stopped from the marines and sailors, far
from it ; what he desired was, that no stoppage should be made
from any ; and, actuated by that desire, in the justice of which
all whom he had consulted upon the subject entirely agreed,
and which made him determine to bring the matter under dis-
cussion. Now, of these petitions, two had been printed by
order of the House, and the petioners state that it is a heavy
loss to them, one-twentieth of their pensions gained in fighting
the battles of our common county-, and thereby in-
crease its immense power and riches, should be stopped; they
likewise state that, adverting to the common principle
that now prevails in advancing or lending money, they conceive
five per cent monthly an exorbitant sum, and that the continu-
ance of it must be owing simply to the matter never having
been brought under the notice of your Honourable House.
Now the Act by which this deduction was authorised was the
'27th of George 11., and was entitled " An Act for the
relief of the Out-pensioners of the Royal Hospital of
Chelsea." The Act was passed to alter the old system of
paying pensioners, of which nothing could be worse at
that time. A. D. 1754, the pensioners received their
pensions in the following manner (namely, the payment
of a year's pension only after the same had become due, and
l'l hich, as the Act recites, exposed them to great hardships and
distresses, making them take money up for present subsistence
on credit of persons called money-lenders, on terms many times
oppressive and usurious. The Act then goes on to state, that
to prevent this bad system, the pensioners shall be paid six
months in advance. Now, in clause 7 it states that the Pay-
master of Chelsea Hospital shall, and may withheld, and deduct
one shilling in the pound from all moneys so paid to out-pen-
sioners of Chelsea Hospital, and which moneys so deducted
shall be so applied in the manner which his Majesty, his heirs
and successors, shall, by warrant under his royal sign manua
direct. This system went on for some time, viz., paying six
months in advance; then it was reduced to three, and about
two years ago, by a plan of Lord Hardinge, staff-officers were
appointed to pay the pensioner:, and now they are only paid
one month in advance ; and which plan was, in his (Captain
Layard's) opinion, a very good one, and likely to be highly
beneficial to the country. But by the 3d and 4th of Wil-
liam IV., en Act was passed in 1533, by which only two-and--
a-half per cent. is to be stopped from the new rate of pen-
sions, so that under the present system the old and hard-tried
Peninsular veterans had five per cent. stopped ; and those who,
no doubt, were just as good soldiers, but could never have the
same severe trials, were to pay only two-and-a-half per cent.
No doubt he should be told that the pensions of the latter were
smaller. Alas, that such was the case, was too true, and a dis-
grace to the nation it was that it should be so. Now, he must
recall to their minds, that within a few weeks, at the gracious
recommendation of her Majesty, they had voted pensions to
those gallant officers who had deserved so well of
their country, Lord Harding() and Lord Gough, to
support the dignity which her Majesty had bestowed
upon them, for their gallant achievements, having raised them
to the temple of honour as a reward for their having taken so
high a station in the temple of fame. Now, for his (Captain
Layard's) part, he could not suppose that either five or two-
and-a-half per cent. would, or ought to be, stopped from the
pensions of those gallant leaders. And if such was the case,
how could the Parliament think of any longer allowing this
stoppage to be made from their no less worthy and gallant com-
panions in arms. Now, he felt that the great enemy he had
to contend with was the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer ; but he trusted that, upon this occa-
sion, he would let his love of justice overcome his love of eco-
nomy ; and he thought, when he informed the Right Hon.
Gentleman that the Hon. Member for Montrose was to second
this resolution, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would
feel that it was an act of justice which no economical feeling
ought to counteract. Shall it be said that those who can say
to their children, or their grandchildren, " I fought with
Hardinge at Albuera ; I was at the storming of Burdpore
with Lord Combermere ; I helped to take the eagle at Barossa
with Gough ; I fought with Napier in India ; I formed part
of that force at Waterloo under Wellington whose squares
were invulnerable, and whose advance in line was invincible"—
shall these men, when
" They shoulder their crutch,
And show how fields were won"—
shall these men end their narrative by stating, " We petitioned
the British House of Commons—we petitioned the representa-
tives of the people—no longer to allow the paltry deduction of
five per cent. from our pensions, and our prayers were un-
heeded ?" He (Captain Layard) called upon the protectional
party, who had talked so much of standing to their colours and
nailing them to the mast, to remember that the
standard of their country had been carried untarnished, by
the agrieul'ural labourer, to honour and to glory. He
reminded the manufacturers that many of those who had been
operatives had, by their gallant bearing as soldiers, opened new
marts in the uttermost parts of the world. He called upon all
in that House to rememher upon what a pinnacle of glory this
country had been placed by the army, and to remember how
poorly that army had been requited. The Right Hon. Baro-
net the late Prime Minister had, upon a former occasion, when
bringing forward the pensions of Lord Hardinge and Lord
Gough, read to them from Napier's " History of the Peninsu-
lar War"—that brilliant history of brilliant exploits—the ac-
count of the heroic and bloody fight at Albuera, whereby liar-
dinge's energy had been achieved. Trusting the House
would allow him to follow the late Prime Minister's example,
he would read an extract from that History. Napier says that
the British infantry soldier is more robust than the soldier of
any other nation, which can scarcely be doubted by those who,
in 1815, observed his powerful frame distinguished amidst the
united armies of Europe; and notwithstanding his habitual ex-
cess in drinking, he sustained fatigue and wet, and
three years are required tremes of cold and heat, with incredible vigorner.d
tWachceotnmecoinl:
pletely disciplined (and
world cannot cht!rsinicrCrpt roisdulcoeftya and his
spmecoLemenenosf mf.rieleirartyhebeawrPhingle.
Nor is:ithe mind unworthy of the outward man ; he does not
indeed possess that presumption and vivacity which would least
him to dictate to his commander, or even to censure real
errors, although he may perceive them ; but he is quick to com-
prehend his orders, full of resources under difficulties, calm and
resolute in danger, arid more than usually obedient and careful
of his officers in moments of imminent peril. It has been asserted
that his undeniable firmness in battle is the result of a phlegmatic,
constitution, uninspired by moral feeling; never was a more
stupid calumny uttered. Napoleon's troops fought in bright
fields, where every helmet caught some beams of glory. But
the British soldier conquered under the cold shade of aria-
tocracy. No honours awaited his daring, no dispatch gave
his name to the applause of his countrymen ; his life of danger
and hardship was uncheered by hope, his death unnoticed.
Did his heart sink therefore? Did he not endure with sur-
prising fortitude the sorest of ills, sustain the most terrible
assaults in battle unmoved, overthrowing with incredible energy
military
qualification was wanting, the font of honour was also
ever
full and fresh within him ? The result of a hundred battles,
and the united testimony of impartial writers of different
nations, have given the first place amongst the European,
Infantry to the British. Such was the description of those
men (and could any one deny the truth of that description for
whom he stood the humble advocate?), and he trusted and
believed that neither the House nor the country would or could
refuse their petition. Who could say at what moment the
safety of this country might depend upon the pensioners?
They were the only force which you could call together in case
of any sudden emergency, for of regular troops you had very
few you could lay your hand upon—the colonies taking up
so large a proportion, while the pensioners consisted of 73,500.
and of these are 25,000 available men, fit to do good service,
and 25,000 more fit for garrison duty ; and these alone showed
the advantage of acting generously and kindly ; for it it had
not been for the pensions, by some so much abused, where could
you have such a force to call out in a moment, and available?
The last sentence of that brilliant history, from which he bad
before quoted, ends with this touching sentence :—" Thus the
war terminated, and with it all remembrance of the veteran's
services." Were they, the house of Commons, prepared to
let such a sentence stand against them to all time ? Were
they prepared to have it go forth that they refused the
petition of those men whose military achievements hat
been the wonder and the admiration of the world ? He felt
that should the Right Hon. Secretary-at-War oppose this re.
solution, he would be acting against his own generous nature,
and the anxious desire he had always personally evinced to
benefit the soldier. But he trusted the House would feel,
whatever was the course taken by the Government, that thii
petition ought to be granted. Ile felt he had done his duty in
giving an opportunity of doing by these gallant men a justice,
however tardy ; a reward, however inefficient. He should end
by calling upon them
To pity the sorrows of each brave old man,
Whose shattered frame can carry arms no more,
Whose life soon dwindling to the shortest span ;
Petition grant, and Heaven will bless M
your etore.
the
He, therefore, begged to move, that in lieopism.cn oser2
a
House, the Tensions paid to noniynniiLsstt
anyd
fee or deducs-
privates of the army should be pa
Lion whatsoever.
a'
• reductions of this description, it should
if there were any reducti
All. HUME said he agreed to the motion, and thought that

all events come as well from the pockets of the wealthy as the
poor Pensioner.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
some misapprehension seemed to exist on the subject. The mea-
sure which the Hon. Gentleman proposed to alter was introduced
at a time when it was the greatest boon to the soldier. At
the time it was brought forward all persons were paid at the
end of the year. He assured the Hon. Gentleman that the sub-
ject should receive the consideration of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, but it was impossible fur him to go further than this de-
claration.
Captain L AYA RD said, that under these circumstances, he
would withdraw his motion.
After a few words from Mr. P. HOWARD, the motion was
withdrawn.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. GREENE in the Chair.
Colonel AN SON then moved that a sum not exceeding
575,670'. be granted to her Majesty for pay, allowance, and
contingencies of Ordnance Military Corps.
After a few observations from Mr. Williams, Mr. Bernal,
Mr. B. Escott, and others, the vote was agreed to.
The next vote proposed was 340,9811. for the commissariat
and barrack supplies for her Majesty's forces, great coats for
the army, clothing for the colonial corps, &c.
This vote, after an irregular discussion in reference to the
barrack accommodation at Hong-Kong and other settlements
abroad, was also agreed to.
The following votes were then agreed to :-
94,9031., to defray the expense of the Ordnance-office.
923,0`35/„ to defray the expenses of the ordnance and
barrack establishments in the United Kingdom and colonies.
125,392/, wages of artificers and labourers in the United
Kingdom and colonies.
390,1841 to defray the expenses of ordnance stores for land
and sea service.
611, 5;h6/. for works, buildings, and repairs.
60,969/. for the scientific branch.
120,4591. was voted to defray the non-effective services,
military and civil, for three-quarters of a year.
The resolutions were then agreed to, and the House re-
sumed.