The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-09 00:00:00

justify him with regard to the statements he had made respect- thing must be done to put a stop to their miseries.
ing the famine in Wexford and other counties. The Hon. Having thanked the House for the patience with which they
Member for Armagh bad stated that the price cf potatces in his heard t ins, he would conclude by saying that he would give
county was similar to the price of. last year. He was rejoiced the measure his most decided opposition in every stage.
to find that there was one place in Ireland where that descrip- Mr. ROEBUCK would not have spoken, had it not been
Lion of food was to be had at a reasonable prico. He was for an observation made by the Gentleman who had just sat
sorry, however, to say that in the south-western and southern down, The Hon. Gendeman had taunted the supporters of
parts of Ireland the potato disease was very extensive. He the present measure as being a motley crew, For his part he
thought the Honourable Member for Dorsetshire was thinking believed that this variety of political opinion—this new corn-
of the condition of the poor in this county when he binetion of forces would never have taken place but from strong
alluded to Ireland. The poor in Dorsetshire were re- awl urgent reasons.—( Hear, hear.) Ile had also accused
eeiving only 7s. a week wages, nut of Odell they had them of being influenced by selfish motives, but he (Mr. Roe-
to pay for rent. He (Lord Lincoln) had received a letter buck') would retort the charge, and would ask a hat were the
only that morning from Valentia, in Ireland, which principles which influenced them ? The real principle was
requested a supp'y of Indian con' or oatmeal to dispose of to self-ins erect. For what did they assemble night after nighth to
the poor at cost price. Such applications as these were evidence make interminable speeches? Fir what did they meeot_t
that the distress in Ireland had not been overrated. The to obstruct the universally expressed demands that theit
month of May, in Ireland, was that period of the year during public? lie would say, fearless of contradiction,safinteie,t clone,
which employment was most prevalent. It was the seed time, was their self-interest, and. their
and the farmers occupied as many labourers as they needed, which spurred them on. First of, all, they- rested their .
and in consequence the demands on the public purse were not case upon the tenant farmers, b utssynow they fell
in reference to
so numerous. The Right Hon. Baronet then read a letter back upon the labourers. He would._only .
from a proprietor in the county of Cavan, wherein great dis- the latter,' let them
.( the protectionists) give them the means
tress existed. His Hon. Friend had stated,' that the result of of deciding the question, and htehewmoultdhenortigfehatr
othfesrtaestiunlgt.
their
the alarm that had been raised with respect to the farmer had before , that, let them
been to raise the price of potatoes. A supply of Indian corn opinions to that Ho(ullsee, on
Thethe e o
timer corn-talcs, 1 awe:, ,
nowleu t on
comeall
bad been furnished to numerous districts in Ireland for the other
statistics were
resorted to, and the lion. Member for
agre,leveth hear.)
double pureose of preventing starvation, and_of hindering a when rat c
combination to raise the price of food. What was the price of
oflh apdrobprpoiunegh
ot
p their
so, however,
potatoes previous to the issue of meal by the Government?. he
ee
purposehad not left his cause to the strength of the facts and sign- I
Why, in Limerick alone, the price was 7id. per stone, andv it
manta which he employed, but appeared to think that
was utterly impossible for the poor to pay that price.
the issue of meal was made by the Government, the prlicellieie his observations, however rapid, or however shallow,
withroma
i n wouldwh i
which
he piquantthe
Honaonot
Honourable
fell immediately from 7ad. to 51d. per stone.
did not intend to occupy the attention of tie House any longer.
He could, however, assure his Hon. Friend that the distress in Gentleman used quotations, it was very easy for him to acquire
ofe
rifessiesatrbnlee.d F
Ireland, though not universal, was general and extensive. a reputation for learning at a very small expense. He quoted
Mr. FLOYEB, thought if the Noble Lord etas not prepared a work from a friend of his ( Mr. Roebuck) of great respecta-
to stand by the quotations of the price of wages in Dorsetshire bility, and so great a respect did he entertain for him, that he
•contained in Mr. Sheridan's letter, he ought not to have ad- was sorry to see his' views wrested to the purposes of the Hon.
dressed the House. He (Mr. Floc er) was prepared tt? main-was
few evenings
Shrewsbury.. ThatuHo
John
Gentleman quoted, af
tain that the condition of the labourers in Dorsetshire
.e ago,. the opinions of i r. Mill., on the laws of
never better than it was at present. lie would, however, deny
hadltto:change in support of those opinions which he
with so much zeal, but with so little
that the rate of wages was so low as had been stated by. the
Right Hon. the Secretary for Ireland. . He gave an unegnivo judgement,. endeavoured to impress upon the House.
fh Honourable Member (Mr. Disraeli)mistook 1 •pa
rt.
ation denial, as the Member for Dorsetshire, against any insinu- e .r. his
ation of the low rate of wages in that county. He began his life by a mistake • he began as a Radical ; he
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN corroborated the statement came out in tragedy, but he had since slated into genteel
of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland with reference to comedy.—(Great laughter.) lie came out as the friend of
the distress of Limerick, he thought it a wise precaution of the the Honourable and Learned Member for Cork; but he was
Government to supply Indian corn to meet that dis- now against him, and the principles he then entertained. 1t
tress. He found, when he visited Limerick, that was well for the Hon. Gentleman to change one set of principles
the vessels in the harbour were attacked by armed men ; and take to himself another—it was well to throw up one
that the cattle were obliged to be guarded by soldiers. In party and join another for the purpose of gaining something by
consequence of the measure the Government had adopted, the becoming the leader of a party, who might make it worth the
ppor people were now employed : there was we fear of cut- change of principle He could then turn round and attack the
break among them. Tranquillity still reigned in that country. Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Ministers
He thought it was his duty, as a magistrates and a proprietor for changing his principles upon this question; but the Right.
in that country to urge upon the Government the necessity of Hon. Baronet could afford to laugh at the impotent insolence
taking some active measures. He found the distress in his of those who chose thus to assail him. Now, as to the book
own immediate vicinity very great. There was no seed for by Mr. John Mills, which the Hon. Gentleman had dipped
the future, and no food for the present. He spoke only of that into—( Laughter)—he would read an extract or two. (The
part of the country with which he was acquainted. He Hon. Member then read at length from this work, to show
believed that there was very severe distress throughout the that protection did not apply to the necessaries of
country--( Hear, hear.) He thought the Government had life, nor to that which would interfere with our exportations.)
acted improperly in mixing up Irish grievances with this corn He hoped the Hon. Member, - when next quoting works to
measure, and that they should propose a humane measure to support his arguments in favour of these laws, would select
meet a temporary calamity. He maintained, and had done so something better than Mr. Mills's authority in support of his
over and over again, that the distress in Ireland should be met principles. The lion. Member again quoted, after which he
by the Irish landholders themselves.—(Hear, hear.) said that this was the argument which was selected to prove
Mr. LEFROY stated that the distress had not been so that they could not combat hostile tariffs by free trade. After
general, and the number of cases of fever consequent thereon having said so much on this subject, he would not longer
were not so numerous as the House had been led to expect. trouble the House.—(Cries of " Oh, oh, oh.") He had no
He was the first Irish Member who had ventured to state doubt the Hon. Members who cried in this way judged of
that, so faa as Ireland was concerned, the state of that country speeches by their length, but his intention was not to make a
did not warrant the adoption of such measures as those pro- long speech, but simply to deal with the points before the
posed by Government. He thought it would be satisfactory House.
to the Government to know, upon authority not to be di,- Mr. MILLS and Mr. DISRAELI rose together, but the former
puted, that, the distress was not eo general as had been feared. gave way, when
With respect to the county of which he was a Member, he Mr. DISRAELI said he was extremely sorry that ha felt
would read a leteer from a gentleman well acquainted with that obliged to solicit the attention of the House for a short time, so
part of the coon try. The Hon. Member then proceeded to as to reply to that part of the Hon. and Learned Member's
read the letter referred to ; also a letter from the agent of a speech, which personally reflected upon him (Mr. Disraeli).—
large landed proprietor in Roscommon, both of which stated ( Hear, hear.) It was a long time since that they had the
the, distress not to be of so alarming an extent. He had honour of hearing the Hon. Member, and 83 for himself he
also accounts from Sligo, Armagh, and Down, was very glad to see him there once more, and to hear him
denying the pirevalene.e of fever in those counties. speak in his usual characteristic manner.—( Laughter.) lie
He would read a letter to prove that even in the case of dis- had been very personal towards him in what he was pleased to
eased potatoes they were not unprofitable, and the House would call his speech upon this question, but he did not care for that.
see form this that there were many useful and commoner pur. —( Hear hear, from the protection benches.) He was used to
poses to which potatoes in a disordered state could be applied. it from him, though he did not always think it necessary to
—( Hear, hear.) (The Honourable Member having read this reply to such attacks—it was true he had done so once—he was
letter, went on to read a number of others, with the view of compelled to do so then—it was thrust upon him by
showing that the accounts of the suffering, disease, and distress the charges of the Hon. Member, which amounted to
prevalent in Ireland was exaggerated.) He did not attempt to what he (Mr. Disraeli) believed to lie language most
deny that there was great and pressing distress in many parts unparliamentary. The Honourable and Learned Member had
of Ireland, but it was occasioned, in his opinion, by a coin- thought proper to speak upon his political conduct—he spoke,
halation amongst certain parties to raise the price of provisions. indeed, on a question which be knew nothing at all about.
--( Hear, hear.) Before he sat down there was another sub- He hoped he would not be charged with anything like egotism
ject to which he must allude. The Right Hon. Gentleman when he now attempted to defend himself, and to show that he
the Secretary of State for the Home Department had blamed ' was not chargeable with what the Hon. and Learned Member
the Irish gentry for not speedily availing themselves of the imputed to him. He was charged with following the Hon. and
public grant which had been made for th purpose of public Learned Member for Kilkenny, or it may be the Hon. and
works, but the- grand juries in many parts of Ireland Learned Member for Dublin, for he did not remember what
thought it would only have benefited the contractor, and not county that Hon. and Learned Gentleman represented at pre-
the tenantry, had they availed themselves of this money pre- sent. Well, he was charged with having followed the principles
vious to the last assizes, for at those assizes the ordinary road of that lion. and Learned Member, but surely there was
contracts were let, and that for a time gave sufficient em- nothing extraordinary in that—there was nothing so extraordi-
pioyment to the people, without resorting to the reserve nary in his having done so, when it was remembered that the
fund which Government had placed at their disposal.— Prime Minister of England had also done so.—(Cries
(Hear, hear.) Thanking the liouse for the attention they of " Hear, hear," and great cheering and counter. cheering. )
had given him, he resumed his seat, declaring his intention to He denied having changed his principles—he had the same
support the amendment.—( Hear. ) rinciples now as he had then. He had nothing to chang
Mr. P. BORTH WICK expressed himself strongly op- tie had no hereditary name to support, no high-born nole'litei
wposed to the passing of this measure, and blamed the Govern- top lease. It may have been that when a young man he had
ent for having resorted to it to relieve the distress of Ireland not adopted the best mode of carryin out those but
in they could have found a more easy and effective remedyY he denied having changed them, fur they principles,we
notf d
in appealing to the people for public and private subscriPe upon light grounds, but they were principles adopted aoirtenirea
tions to meet the temporary evil.—( Hear, hear.) Circum- careful reading ; they were not hastily formed, but were the
stances, both in and out of the country, combined result of deep-study and were such as he could not change,
to prove that the corn-laws were politic, and it though he was charged' to have done so by the Hon. and
would be unjust to abrogate them.—( Hear, hear.) Ho Learned Member in his well-arranged impromptu.—(Cheers
admitted that what was politic last year might be impolitic
alluded to
The principles which he held at the time
this, but justice was eternal ; it never changed ; and to him . by the Hon. and Learned Member deprecated the
it seemed rather strange, that the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of the Government should have been thirty years in dis- policy which regulated the legislation for Ireland, and those
coveringh se
suffered by
aforfacht.e didi .maintain that
covering what was just and what was unjust.—(Protection 's
principlesreland hade
cheers.)
How could this be? The fact was that the discover Y he did believe that the y
mistakemes roaegersltion. And
was a sudden one. And why did the Right Hon. Baronet soin governingi
Ireland was attempting to greatgovern her by a f-ce
often entertain them with speeches warmly supporting and that the real mode of Government that should— adopted
be adopted
protection, and in no less degree denouncing the Anti-Corn-
law Lea towards that country should have been that adopted by certain
g
that the discovery was a sudden one. And why was ue.and its leaders ? It could not be concealed
, sud-
, then ireat.kirigs in former times.—(Hear, bear.) What, then,
den? Why, the secret would be found in the simple fact that was 1t because he sympathised with a man who hail borne
a great name as the advocate of the of his country, i
a general election was near at hand. But was it becoming in the feelings he entertained towards that causey,
n
a great Minister, with a European reputation, to resort to(
Hearar)hecountry, thati he was
to be thus assailed 2
so leepalpab an attack, with the view of securing popularit sreotweraeotd etoopinhiones
Y he had always expressed upon this sub'
on the ve of a general election.—( Hear, hear.) opinions he still adhered.— Hear hear, The lion. and
es
A falser return than that which had been returned to the Learned Member had said that he ('l,llr. Disraeli) had• had
French Parliament, of the number of agriculturists and menu- a quarrel with a party, and entered into some statement about
laesturers, had never bsen made ; for every village blacksmith, it. It was unfortunate that he had ; it occurred at an election
every village tailor, every man who fashioned the ploughshare when he was a very yo
man, and when he •
stood in oppo-
or horseshoe, every sort of artizan, had in fact been returned as siting to the son of a Whigg Prime Mini t Bu he a manufacturer, and he was glad to find that M. Guizot was notdid not
think that these were matters which jusstiefired the t
about to be misled by that return, or become a disciple of the Honourable
Itlember in making those charges and with those observations,
Hon. Member for Stockport. The Noble Lord behind him he (Mr. Disraeli) begged to ; say, he would
al-
(Lord G. Bentinek) had made a speech on this questionnever lude to them again. As to what the Hon ale leer m had said
during the previous stage of this measure, which was replete about his having. n tO the •
go. e over enemy's camp, why, he
with arguments, to which it was impossible for the Government .
(Mr. did not know that he ever had a camp.
to reply. The Hon. Member then proceeded to say, that the L Disraeli)
( auehter). And now let him ask who were those who
alleged famine in Ireland was not of that alarming character re- - ''' -
sympathised with the sentiments of the Hen.' and Learned
presented by the Commissioners of her Majesty's Government. Member opposite ?—(Loud cheers.) What sentiments did he
There had in point of fact been a decrease of about 100 cases of represent ?—( Renewed cheers.) The Hon. Member had
fever in one district alone of that country in the present year, stated thtt there was no greater enemy to democracy than
LS compared with the corresponding portion of the preceding
t modern liberalism—(Hear, hear)—and that liberal principles
in Ireland sufficient potatoes both for food and seed, notwith- were never more in danger than when advocated by poe
standing the assertion; of the Noble Lord the Secretary for laical economists.—( Hear, hear.) But now, let him (Mr.
Ireland (Lord Lincoln). There was also not the least deficient Disraeli) ask had he ever spoken in terms of dis-
ci any other description of food in that country. But even respect of the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork ?
granting fora moment that there was a famine in Ireland, (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then referred to the book
it this measure were an unjust one, which it had been from which the Hon. Member for Bath read some passages,
proved to be, that famine could not surely form a and read an extract, in which the author expressed his opinions
Thefor the passing of such a measure as the present upon the operations of the corn-laws, and concluded by saying
The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Ma'est ' he thought he had now shown the House that never had his
Government has said, that the people living eastward of Ya
s misrepresentations been more apparent, or his
attacks more
imaginary-line which he hail drawn from Inverness to South-n causeless, than the present upon his literary criticisms
ampton, were careless whether this measure passed or not ; in
•( Hear, hear.) Of all the abortions he had ever heard of, his
fact, that those who were skilful and wealthy homers, would was he greatest—( Hear, hear)—and never was there a senator
profit by the measure becoming a law. But the lt,ght Hun. struck with stronger oratorical paralysis, and certainly never
e- was
Baronet had admitted that the remaining portion of our pops any attack mgr malignant, or more perfectly futile.
lotion--the small farmers of England would be utterly ruined. Mr.. S. HERBERT said, in rising to address a few ob-
And it was thus heartlessly that they were about to dispose of szavtathion to the House upon this subject, he could assure it
those of whom theyformerlyboasted—o the bold peasantry, the an
of et would avoid all expressions of a personal nature, or
country's pride." But these laws, if they injured one class fu y
h _ ose sarcasms which the House had been listening
to
must injure all classes of farmers; I't was impossible that
.the
,or t e last few minute. but h
, e would endeavour to wield
benefited by them, whilst the occu- 11 s o •''
a pereona ities. (Hear, hear.) With
large farmers could be
respect to the
small portions of land were injured. On discussions which had taken place upon the piers and cultivators of
the Right Hon. Baronet had Bill, he doubted that the the westward of the line which Honourable Member opposite had
produced, and that in copious shown that Mr. Mills had convinced an
drawn, the very best of wheat was
y one by his argu•
producers of that ' thents. He did not mean to • quantities; and he contended that the
House very well go into the question now, as the
portant article of food, should not have lightlybeensoTletrted
money that had bee
nunderstoodsoofte the cause of the effiuxion of
as they had been by the Right Hon. Baronet. often alluded to. But some allusion
Burke, for the purpose Hon.
of had been made to expressions Member concluded, by quoting from
d
st stei to filnsete The Houourable Member fo Oxfordshire ad used during this debate.
showing that it would be a very dangerous an unju P
os
~. by labouring population in the S m had spoken of the
fere with the capital of the farmer in the manner proposed 103 y
that crime had increased b ow. ern counties last year, and
this measure. Now, the Right Hon. Baronet
.lo
done
i n
(11r, Sydney Herbert) b eyodnd the population. Now he
such statements the argument, What has protectionnof
antler marked diminution in c • egge,
.to sae that there had been a
you ?He might as well ask, in respect to the state m or four years. The Honour fable M
rime in .his country within the last three
factures in Ireland, What has free trade done for that coun- there was a great deal fa ieember had also said that
try? •He said that he was in those measures going to found a cour.try that he (Mr eS
Sydney Herbert) suffering in the part of the
permanent system of trade; but this was, in the very nature that wages were low. thLei• ey Herbert) lived in, and
of things, impossible. The world had existed some six thou- regret more than he aid the lownesse. Now, no person could
sand years, and the Right Hon. Baronet could not show themof wages; but it would
not
any melon that had ever existed that maintained its prosperity, than was given in &e
malt. in
The greatest
part of the country,
Why, commercial prosperity was as variable as the winds and existed formerly with respect to the girmeaptoer.stta Ens s iobfl e alarm
waves that wafted their traffic from shore to shore.—( Laugh- cattle, and many gentlemen in that House had d foreignli
ter.) In all the speeches made by the Right Hon. Baronet state t at it
would be ruinous to the farmer ; but on the contrary it was
he went into no argument—he dealt only in assertions—he but afterwards found that the farmer was benefited by it- --(Oh,
repeated the creed of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton. oh.) He could assure Hon. Gentlemen that a
great-deal
Tee Noble Lord the Member for London had asked the people the farmer's difficulties were owing to the high price of stock inof
to pour in petitions, anti to give the Right Hon. Baronet an ex- England, and it might be very well for Hon. Members to say
cure for repealing the corn.laws. But the people had done no that that line of argument was disposed of—it was still the fact.
such thing. They had proved, by the elections which had The farmer objected to the repeal of the corn-laws, and yet he
taken place in all parts of the country, that they were deter- said that he could not cultivate his farm, in consequence of the
mined to uphold the constitutional principles of England. The high price of stock. All the agitation that bad hitherto taken
Hon. Member fur Stockport and the Right Hon. Baronet at place had only served very much to conciliate the minds of the
the head of the Government, like Hermia and Helena in the agriculturists to the change which was about to take place. He
poem, though with two seeming bodies, had but one heart; was aware that the Hon. Member for Lynn was a master of
ute if their
e , , measures were carried, they would, however hene- the science of agitation—( Hear, hear)—and had applied the
ocaal tney mi ht b
of agitation, as it was a period
lotion •
on this.
g eto foreign countries, entail ruin and degra- Easter recess to the purposes
always taken advantage of by Hon. Members for a similar pur-
Mr. HENLEY
lengthened remarks, but
not trouble the House with any pose. Public meetings had been summoned in the most
emarks, but he had
received without mak' could not allow the report to be interested parts of the country, and the statements which
would be of a character" one or two observations, and as they been made before Easter were repeated. It was stated that
the debate, he trusted the House
had not been often referred to in corn would be imported at 255. a quarter, and though eery
made them. And first, he ouseiwould bear with him while he one heard the assertion, it did not excite any very great alarm;
of the country, and if they looked
dd refer to the social condition for the farmers were a much more reasonable and shrewd race
would find a pleasing decrease in tilt the last four years they of men than they were described. If they would credit the
crease of nearly one-fourth. The eßiaihnount of crimes-_a de- statement of a gentleman not mixed up with party politics
ever, attributed this improvement in moralst Baronet, how- in that House, they would find that many more
made in restrictive duties. But let them oktoif the relaxation men were engaged in ascertaining whether they could, by_an
other causes for this improved slate of thine,. Wtatisere were nu increased exertion of skill, cope with the foreign wheat they
crease of prosperity by the railway movement,there no thought would be brought into the foreign market than
20,000,0a0t, a year was expended among the when at least were intent on the passing of this Bill. His Hon. Friend,
there not an improved poor-law? Was people ? Was the Member for Dorsetshire,hadalluded to the question
nothing
attributed to the last religious to be
movement? C which hod been put, as to whether any measure, such as
inertial restriction had, for the last*ben
thoseproposed by O ' lthe state of
thirty years, b
diminishing, and he asked—Was the country in a better, een things in Ireland ? And the lion Member • s answered
tion than it was before ? If he could show that trade posi- very explicitly by the Noble Lord, • • h was
the state
it respect to
had ereased, that prices had become lower, awl that em to aed in-
in which he found Ireland: His Hon' lived
Friend, who
had become general within the last thirty yearn woaind'ment in that country, admitted that the • Noble Lord had given an
not be ready to admit that crime should have diminished,they account of the state of Ireland, and one which could neither
that was the principle on which they advocated the repeal fur be doubted nor impugned and that
the corn-laws? If they took the test of the populatior tl of
necessity of making some measures' for the
surely urged the
weuld find that, in 1821, the population of Great Britain, ir.3er ingA anti ameliorating the state of thatt le purpose of better-
did not include Ireland, amounted to 14,490,000 ;in 1831, it lember ( Lord G. Bentiuck ) said that they
The Hon.
amounted to 16,342,000 ; in 1841, it amounted to 18,431,000. roer?marhnet
iiieomedy for a temporary evil. tyVewreeethhel applydoinga
So that, if he might be allowed to use the exression, it evil; if that e;.re Gentleman said that this was a tele): i
was increasing. in a diminishing ratio—that
lthey were founding a permaneinntrarrey-
should have increased in a far greater reoportion than they said that the rei itself from becoming permanent. If
it had done—( Hear, hear)—and if they compared the benefit why did they consent
tpoeaal
tof the corn-laws was no law.
or agricultural and manufacturing pursuits upon the inhahi- The Noble Lord (George werirary suspension of the
Cants of their respective districts, he would show them how Irish distress. He did not admit the .
eas not a believer in
immensely the former was superior to the latter. In Lan- disease, lie was satisfied that nothing
oweistence w the potato
cashire the deaths were one in thirty-four; in Liverpool one tut he was satisfied, he said, shouldtabs wrong with them ;
Londoin twenty-nine ; in Salford, one in thirty-four ; and in think the measure necessary for their wel;arpeeeplel of Ireland
London, one in thirty-eight. He would now read to them to meet their present exigencies, that thereshOularbeeelculated
n,
of the agricultural districts—ln Wiltshire, one in forty- Sion of the corn-laws. lie would give his sanction toe "'Pen-
nine • in Sthis sus-
fia a urrey, one in fifty-two ;in Hampshire, one in pension, though he was persuaded the measure would be n
"Pim. Well, and if they would say that they had is jury, instead of a benefit, to the people of Ireland a -
short andc —( Heir.)
merry lives, he would say, let them read ,uch was the policy of the Noble Lord. He' admitted the axe
Ile facto..
',7 returns, •in which they would see that some- istence of distress in frehtud, though he disputed the extent of