The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-15 00:00:00

residences. The architect, however, thought it neces.
eery to finish first those parts of the building which
were dedicated to public business ; and he (Lord Mor-
peth) thought that any other coulee would hardly be
felt desirable by the gentlemen for whose accurate, -
dation those residences were intended, since the
approaches to their abodes would otherwise be encum-
bered with rubbish. He was happy also in thinking
that the present residence of their respected clerk
judging from the appearance which he presented, was
not yet a subject for his (Lord Morpeth's) Sanitary Bill.
—(A laugh.) But really the House, to do justice to
the architect, must consider the very special circum-
stances of this building. Where had they any building
that could be compared with it? It covered between
eight and nine acres of ground, and it was more like a
small town than a building.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr.
Osborne.) How many rooms did his Hon. Friend sup-
pose this building contained? Between five and six hun-
dred rooms, and one hundred and fifty staircases.—
(Hear, hear.) In fact, he thought, as to style and size,
there was no such building in Europe, except St. Peter's,
and that took two hundred ears in building. The
architect was quite prepared to stand a comparison with
any building of ancient or modern times, either with
reference to the cost of construction, the speed of con-
struction, or the defects of construction. He felt con-
fident that he was entitled to make that challenge ; and
he (Lord Morpeth) believed, for one, that Mr. Barry
would not come to shame out of it. Mr. Barry felt
that, under all the circainstances of the case, he had
to sustain himself nearly all the responsibilities of this
vast undertaking.—(Hear, hear.) He believed that the
architect was actuated by the single desire to make the
building a credit and glory to the country, and to rivet
his own reputation. He believed that the devotion of Mr.
Barry's `time and; talents had been almost unparal-
leled; that the anxieties to which he had been sub-
jected had much impaired his health and spirits ; and
that if the confidence of the country were now with-
drawn from him, he would no longer be able to maintain
the contest. He owned that our national experience in
matters of architecture had not been the most happy ;
and he did not wish to deny but that some of the items
laid down in the present case might have been intended
more for the credit of the building than for the credit of
the Exchequer.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that both
Parliament and the country should direct their anxious
attention to this last consideration, and he was able to
state that the Government had taken measures to con-
tract the annual sum voted for this service.—(Hear.)
Of course, this must be done at the cost of a slower com-
pletion of the building.— (Laughter.) They thought it
their duty first to require that the most essential parts
of the building should have precedence, and that the
House of Commons should first of all be proceeded
with, while the merely ornamental parts should be de-
layed.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly regretted that there
had not been a more rapid completion of the works; but,
nevertheless, the Government had resolved, considering
the great extent of the works, and the state of the
finances of the country, to make a deduction on the sum
required fur this department of the service. The lion.
Gentleman (Mr. Osborne) had alluded to the per centage
on the gross sum of 25,0001. to be allowed as remu-
neration to the architect ; that sum was the amount
stipulated for at the commencement of the works. And,
whatever that House might choose to do as to the entire
remuneration of Mr. Barry, he presumed he could have
no complaint if he was allowed for the services origi-
nally agreed upon the sum of 25,0001. He was sure
that Mr. Barry bad been actuated throughout by an
anxious desire for the credit of the building; and while
he would not deny that the cost had far exceeded the
general expectation, yet he must say that he considered
it had been expended upon a structure which would be
an ornament and an honour to the country, and also to
Mr. Barry. He must say for that gentleman, that by
those who best knew him he was regarded with the
highest respect and the strongest attachment; and that
as an architect he joined the most excellent conception
with the.most consummate skill, and that for that class
Of excellence for which our era had been most remark-
able he believed the palm would be awarded by those
who came after us to the genius of Barry.—(Hear.)
Sir R. INGLIS exculpated Mr. Barry from all re-
sponsibility attaching to expenditure in the new Houses
of Parliament beyond his own immediate department.
Re entreated the Noble Lord to reconsider the subject of
Spreading the sum necessary for the completion of the
buildings over four or five years. If the Government
Was prepared to complete the designs, let the necessary
amount be at once asked for, and bring the works to a
conclusion, insteae. of delaying their termination for so
many years.
Mr. HUME agreed with the last sentence of the
Ron. Baronet who had just sat down as to the impro-
priety of prolonging the works. This was a course
which he had no doubt would add to the expense. It
had been said that Mr. Barry had an excellent oppor-
tunity of showing his taste in the course of the erection
of these buildings, and to that he (Mr. Hume) should
not have objected, provided he had done so at his own
expense,—(Laughter.) He was glad to see the Right
Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) in his place, because he would
be able to show the Right Hon. Baronet that he had
every right to expect a very different result from what
had been shown in respect of these buildings. It should
be recollected that this business was not hastily begun,
and that they had a pledge from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer at that time (now Lord Ripon) that no more
than 300,000/. would be expended without working plans
being exhibited. A recommendation, however, was
given by the Committee appointed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Sir R. Peel), that a plan involving 707,0001.
should be adopted. He (Mr. Hume) made a proposal
that they should not take Mr. Barry'S plan, but that of
Mr. Hamilton, which was estimated at 450,0001. ; but
that proposal was rejected: llto-tvies resolved, however,
thattthe plan of Mr. Barry should not be adopted by the
Committee till they had senatiedsiimination as to whether
his estimates had been prdperly made out. Accordingly
Mr. Barry was called in, and, on examination, he stated
that he had made the estimates himself, assisted by com-
petent persons—that they were such as he could rely
131)0n—and that the kind of stone to be used, for which
a price of 4s. a foot was estimated, was to be the best
that could he got for the purpose. As to the sum of
4,0001. which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr, Osborne) spoke
of as having been expended by the Committee appointed
to make inquirylafter the best quality of stone, he did
not know what error there might be in that item; but
be was one who strongly approved of the appointment
of that Committee, as he was opposed to the building
being begun till they ascertained that the stone to be
employed was sufficient for the purpose, and of one face
and colour. But to return to the estimates. When ho
had put a variety of questions to Mr. Barry, it turned
out that Mr. Barry had not made all the estimates
himself. Lie could not give any satisfactory answer
as to what the expense of the building might
be ; and he (Mr. Hume) was ,referred to one
or two gentlemen for information I but the result Was
that he could find no one responsibl6-for the estimtes.—
(Rear, hear.) An entire year was then given to get
correct information, and to make out the complete plans.
The Committee at length reported, recommending the
adoption of the plan finally proposed by Mr. Barry, on
the express understanding that the work was to be
executed fur a sum not exceeding, by any considerable
Bum, the amount stated by Mr. Barry.—(Hear.) He
(Mr. Hume) objected to this undertaking being left to
the care of the Commissioners of the Woods and Forests,
who were a changeable body, depending upon the altera-
tions of the Ministry. The First Lord of the Treasury
Was in fault ; and, as the greater proportion of the de-
viations took place when the Right lion. Gentleman
opposite was in office, he was responsible. The expen-
diture would exceed by one entire million the amount to
which the House of Commons had limited the expense.
Would the Right Hon. Gentleman and the Committee
Lie agreed to enter on such an undertaking if they had
then any idea that the expenditure would so far exceed
the estimate? 754,0001. was considered the utmost extent
to which the expense would amount. The House had
reason to complain. He had complained of the late
Lora Besborough, as Chief Commissioner of Woods
and Forests, in reference to this matter; but Lord Bes-
borough denied that he had sanctioned the additional
expenditure, and stated that ho had signed a plan, be-
lieving it to be the original plan, though it turned out
to be one with amendments. It any such imposition had
taken place there was no punishment which the Govern-
ment ought not to have inflicted on the guilty parties.
Re had never seen any disposition on the part of ttio
House to refuse any expense for any useful building.
For himself, he had never refused —(A laugh, and
" Hear, hear")—in cases where4he building was likely
to add credit or honour to the country. He should not
say that Mr. Barry had had anything to do with the
additional expenses, but ho wished to know what share
the Committee of Taste had had in authorising them.
Would the Noble Lord lay on the table an account of
the expenses which they had authorised? It was wrong
to blame Mr. Barry or the Government if others were
in fault. He knew not whether Prince Albert was
at the head of that body.—(An Hon. Member observed
that he was.) That did not improve the matter—
(A. laugh.) It was a subject of great satisfaction to find
one. so high in station take his place as a Member of that
Commission. He (Mr. Hume) was very far from under-
ealuil.g the services of the Prince; they were, on the
; °netr4l7, of great advantage, and anything which might
;eau to the withdrawal of his valuable assistance would
OS subject of regret. But he wished to know what was
the share which had been taken by that Commission.
Mr. Barry had a toy, had fools to deal with, and had
played with it as he liked.—(A laugh.) There had also
been an excess of expenditure on the navy estimates;
So that the inevitable result seemed to be additional tax-
ation, It was said this was a noble building. It might
be so, but it was more than they wanted. Was it right,
when Parliament had decided to give a certain sum only,
that twice as much should be expended? The precedent
was a bad one. The Noble Lord said the Woods and
Forests were not responsible. It was a reproach, thee,
to the Treasury that such expenditure should be in-
curred; and the First Lord of the Treasury was the
Person to whom blame ought to be attached.
Sir R. PEEL—I was not First Lord of the Treasury
when the building was commenced.
Mr. HUME—No; but perhaps when the deviations
were made. It was originally decided that the architect
should not be paid by a per centage; and it should
not have been held out to any man that if he doubled or
tripled his expenditure he bhuuld receive so much the
more payment. It was to be regretted that the Trea-
sury had not adhered to the original resolution, and that
two millions of money should be sunk on the banks of
the Thames. With regard to the site, he (Mr. Hume)
was not to blame. Thrice had he tried to induce the
House to select one, opposite Marlborough-house, where
there was an excellent site. In addition to the Abbey
they were to have a large tower to keep out the bun -
shine. The Government ought to take measures to
Prevent another shilling from being thrown away, and
to state how they meant to control the expense. The
Ron. Gentleman the Member for Middlesex had done
great justice to the subject, and his remonstrance, it
might be hoped, would have a salutary effect. He (Mr.
iltune) 'wished to see the building completed, but with-