The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-17 00:00:00

T` N: LO N DON, PUE S p A EVEN I NG, FEBRU A R, I` 17, 18-16.

atl^-----....__,__..._.
......_____
at 7
°old ba brought in, duty free to com Pete with theo. 1 which of theth 'could kte told at the lowest. rate ? Was it
ttel_oa "se English farmer, which 'he'd been -rated for income- 1 not eight 'fee the agricultural community to ask for.
fe:e...:ttli)aat,emytoothe: tax to which property was liable. lie had 1 that erdt.s.a that . would give them an opportunity of fair
all
ths certainly trespass on the time of their Lordships at any 1 enteepetition, with the foreign grain ? ( Hear, hear. )
loth,. nor did he intend to enter on the subject any furthel, Now, his Noble et., lend went t t a-, " Oh, but by the c nut
thought that before protection was removed mutation the tithes arc eweenlorflognhreoaS4)4d border.; becattre tl.ey
listeee7 Points should be taken into consideration. [The are consecrloeredhien t p land—itl is tia longer a bus-
L'Oerd' ISeteanolet esotild ninth return to his si-
anod, .Lea l here made some remark referring (as we under- diii." ie w
tee,.eeteto a speech of his that had been misrepresented, but he mile, and he would.' ask this a le)skion. They would admit that
Ray vo hay a tone that it was quite inaudible in thegallere.l if one-tenth was paid,by e'n c cinii.l, and nothing by another, that
let there there an extract of a speech delivered at Covent the proprietors. of 'nen were not placed upon equal terms. The
la, tio the 18th of December. The extract was from the
ees, ..._, cenanutatsett takes place : the first mill. owner does tint wish
'seethe:mu he (Lord Deere) had taken measures to ascertain his industry to be interfered with ; he does not wish to be. taxed
to ror not it was correct. L The Noble Lord then
1,11. e
Nioebeicetotrradevit
was
was as rear as we could hear, for to proportion to his success; he wishes tie compound with the
commissioners, taking the. arcrege of his rise in the last five
'• ' "that the Ito 'le year, all bea.r ie . scereely audible— I hope e 1 But
and the averege prices the produce was sold at.
tame
of mindeio how great a terror has been created by the very even that corettutation, although Wily and clearly made
toeta its s. freeholder, a power lately creatrd, which- would oat, did not remove the burden ; the burden re:tease:l
its all 'unable the pseud aristocracy to the dust." Have
^ 'lid th' as much a burden when. paid in a certain rum as when
tet q ti._ "h be. would he grieved to imagine that any alinis- paid in - •ereduce. Nay, it .
.remained a greater
leteeenat country would allow Parliament to separate without burden, and his Neale Frltnd was going beyond a paradex. in
'site a,, some measure to restrict this interferenceburden at all. He trusted he might
affirming that it was nu
refer- '''' Constitution.—( Hear, hear.) 'As an old be fargieco for thus trying to controvert the argument of his
fre.t'eed"' he recollected the creation of the forty-shilling Noble Friend. He felt himself obliged to protest against it,
had ptasesrest 0! Ireland, and the repugnance with which they but he rejoiced that the Government did not intend to offer
nerd, ie`e
,tettat measure; necessity, however, had compelled any opposition to the motion. He rejoiced that it would beid
"alit of, eao riot, however, wish in any way to restrict the acquiesced in by the House ; but, at the same time, he could
*ere „flawing, either in county or boroueh provided that it not go into that Committee without protesting against one of
lii dia "neted on constitutival principles.' dei ' He believed that the propositions of the Noble Lord, that he. introduced this neu-
tered elties would be removed, if some'l arrangement were en- tion because he considered that the question of the abolition of'
of tee La° le equalise taxation, and so secure the prosperity
sauntr protection was already settled.—(Great cheering.) While he
l MONT concurred wan the Noble Lord in thinking that on this and
rtitn or ,‘. • EAGLE rose to move an amendment to the other questions the opinion and voice of the country, calmly,
etre
Ile ~' wmilneatteatluble Friend. That amendment, he be. deliberately, and eerio.usly expressed, eye, and stedfastly main--
t, raeod meet with any opposition either from his No- tained, ought and would iefluense the decisions (a: their Lord
"be ra. any cf the Noble Lords on the other side.
th gg't her ships and the other House, he also agreed.. with the.. Noble
(lord% -cater,. °,_ to say, he would be sorry to take un some ef Lord that there should be no doubt in a question of this vast,
e Ile es which had been laid down by the Noble Lord thisrimmense importance, that the sense of the country and. of
Parliament were. in favour of a change ; for its agitation
°f the 1-eanatraaat). lie did not wish to anticipate the result
s'e d° -o,iry, hut he must protest against the doctrine
ll sae. • and accomplishment, unle:s productive of undoubted
e'ose in His Noble Friend had addressed the good,_ could not fail to he an undoubted evil.
fair
e a . and
a fair dcandid manner, end he had Whatever might be the result of the question of protection,
,here _ series of admissions on the subject, it did not d°. away with the argument that they should have
:''''ect aas One material point it which he main- claim to fair and reasonable cempensati in.—(H. eear, hear.)
ltist re 4:llar doctrine to him (Lord Monteagle) on the sub- ne must protect alainst being supposed to agree in the opinion
that the question of the policy of the corn-lawswested in the
Plerie „,, el commutation of tithes. Tithes, he said, must
r'said t'e'st.ne same principles as rent. if so there was Tioslightest de -gee on any particular interest or . individual body.
s:
Let -nee
that the landlords and farmers shall receive
,salee th' as protection unless he (Lord Beaumont) main-
te ~,,. at protection was due to it, not for the benefit of
ie, , entry at., full and thementire
.compensation, both in their individual and pecu-
e, slid lee, large, but to uphold rent. He (Lord Monteagle) wary interests, still he would not consider the question of the
corn-laws settled. The abolition of the corn-laws was a guess
,••^,a te,', ti,es'.°Y Noble Lord, or any writer of eminsnee, to
tion, in his opinion, that rested on conclusions far beyond the
''i,tt t 5 ',1,1-ence between 255. an acre derived from land
A4' the Or '''hes and 20s. paid on land with ss. as a fixed rate Personal or pecuniary interests of any class or party. It was
,and he eaZYrean. The effect would be precisely the same, .
to .be considered, not in a pecuniary or individual sense, but.
t on th great social, -moral, political, and material
eat'less it ~,` not see how they could talk of protection to tithe !n"
effectsofthe country.—(Cheers.)
et for ti,"" to be cansidered as protection to rent, and
te ienefit of the clergy, or the country at large. interests
The.. Duke of RICHMOND must, like the Noble Lord, enteel
14
the eu that the *II qq,tion . commutation of tithes. made any difference a similar protest to that. which. the. Noble Lord (Stanley) bar
bit Plea,' • the principle of protection in !elation to tithes just made. He considered the.uiquir now sought for should
,i's of tee Y the tame as before, and he cautioned their Lord- have taken place earlier. He would. notY believe that the Bills
olLisPoriinc.areat danger there was to the rights of property in proposed to be brought from the other House, to do away with
the corn-laws, would receive their sanction. He could not
Cleeio,"” clamoue against rent which had been raised in
believe that their Lordships would make so sudden a change as
Mme
e," aaah this einestion of tithes. Twenty shit-
H. al • b in the other House ; but that they would throw
aelle ~Y,Ole to the landlord stood in precisely the
ae.d it rosition as five shillings paid to the clergyman, out the imeaseuriSe. in order that the sense of the country might
,4.ll,k;.erta.,,illkiititln,grethe question of protection, must be considered takenmon them.'.—(Hear, hear.) It might be said that great
was any inequality in the taxation on landed excitement existed out of doors; but who were its-authors?
eAmti-Corn-law League.—(Hear, hear.) It had been
sol,e it; ueeolid what was fair and impartial, let them remove
sp. (t'lltY, but do not give protection to one class of remarked by-the Noble Lord, that if the' measure. passed into
itgaretarwil_nterest at the expense, of all the others. With a law he
.would do his hest not to set class against class ; on
~ es e net had been mooted Patriot the removal of the poor- that subject, however,._ he (the Duke of Richmond) could
ts4ntter4ert° the State, he call.ed their attention to the great
tttestrd frstith a ease. It would deprive all parties locally in- not make any promise.—(Hear, hear.) The responsibility
.was not in his hands, but in that .of the Government.
The would have scanted to betray their leader, but with the
•tt_et, ,and ,11. participat; ,• in the administration of the poor- They
of deep injury which they were likely to sustain,,th
(ii it n 5,,, ilaa^,e away hoes the poor themselves. all check which
wish the feeling that their families and themselves
acts
to be
et:ar, le,a a, °Ter the g od administration of those laws.-.
re:3. Fro '' ) A very rapid diminution had taken place in consigned to ruin and the workhouse by the. .
tifi:rteteerge,al,the year 1 826 to 1841 the proportion of or leader. How could they feel any confidenceh ihnealm.—e(nHfrecamr,
hear.) How could the honest farremfeorrwrootce had
I,,l7eibly al' t,":_,- on differs nt.classes of property was very con- p ti on, ant d protection
the hustings declare that theyhwei
et, 's with n"a, arid altering for the benefit of land as com-
e lett t ,I.ether taxable property. Were they aware of the they wculd maintain, and a. seen them. in the House of
Commons desert the cause they had promised to support, rely,
e,' lart9,e,;'seh railways were chargeable ?—(Hear, heir.)
tr zatete,"Y tree that. by the original conception of thedaer lotf alain upon those in whom they had placed their confidenee ?
What could they think, when they saw the places of a few
t,„Prrymrt..or the statutes immediately subsequent, descriptions
honest men who resisted the measure, filled up by those who
ire tee •)' r(lt now. taxed to the poor were then taxable. Well,
the rteee rot b had promised to defend, but had afterwards deserted them?
te eneeie been able to enforce 'that state of the law from
Could they be blamed, if, under cireamstances like these,
call rn oak les and inconveniences which stood in the way. Let
Was one
e to the state of the law In Scotland. What was they ventured to take a leaf out of the Anti-Corn-law League ?
Up to this moment they had abstained from sending itinerant
143 one :'f, ears and substance" was rated in Scotland, and it
lecturers into the 'manufacturing districts to excite the opera-
t'ee ohs
most difficult and most complicated rates to en-
late e reason was that it was in the nature of a property- then against their employers ?—but had the Anti-Corn-law
slala out any of .
se., eof ~, its e,,emptions. His Noble Friend had League done the same? No; they had not. They bad sent
lead '"e costofthe administration of justice, but he
Ilk, tfi fo
eh, hore rget that one-half of the expense of prosecution might be allowed to use the term, blackgua.tded all the land-
s -e, by the State.— ( Hear, hear.) It must be owners and farmers of the country. They, however, were not
LfPete, rea that if they threw the whole of the contentk withtd this, but but went further, and told the labourers that
as well as straw. Their people had never
1;341110'11i the State they must have a public prosecutor. sdtoancesanwy°tehing of this sort • they had never sent men into the
ke'isasition e sorry to state that this was any objection to the.
manufacturing districts, although it might have been easy
I"•test ' on the contrary he thought it was one of its
k'tetttioersete,,°reenenda- tiotis, tincl to
one of the. greatest enough to do so, to toll the operative that cotton and such
Riot trim nth at was ever contemplated with benefit in the pre- like articles would fire as well as straw, or to set the operative
d he
th theeeri law w• to congregate in large bodies to coerce they employers,d.
ea ad_ .. • . ith reference to the malt-ex,
he agreed
le slat for of the Noble Lord (Lord Beaumont) that for one trusted they would never
.do so, but woul. .and
rs't'llet ral 'S a tax paid by the consumer, and that this pursue the dignified course of appealing to Parliament in a tone
s'fai t
ea, tee s._,. Y ended to limit the consumption of . barley.
tllawt savranseat once honourable, loyal, and constnutional. But
la 1, tee "etcles upon which had been made a reduction of he d their Lordships not to be induced to vote for the
Government measure in the hope that it would be the means. of
oreesteaeal.cie of malt is that which has participated to the
ear e Putting down agitation. They might depend upon. it that
le 'an eat he remit-ion of duties. At the dose of the
eobl (sae after,at time of the Governrwmt of the
fh , e oek - success never did or ever would produce moderation in or out
.flePe`liament. Tke Anti-Corn-law League might. tell them
' 'l6, s ein 1839 the country was subject to a beer-tax.
ofwhatarthe liked about their dissolution, but he believed they
tatt shoe war-tax was imposed. Malt then paid a duty equal
re, is aesgee°l 435. per quarter, while at the present period the. ld never dissolve until they had destroyed the Church, andt
ylt . oeuted
Av."' than '. Per quarter. The amount of duty removed is ever y other institution which-they themselves were prepared to
aed 1,-n eas b , ' similar article of revenue,
the he d , een removed irom any sa stand by and defend.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) A Noble
ee ow much, even if the whole amooot ofin Scotland.
Lord, who, had spoken in the course of the evening, had asked
eers Payablemaltwere to be, repealed, that the pro-
t,,,, of li..- on
and
The Noble Lord said there were great defects in that law,
sores
i "at article would be in any better condition. , The
earee to ' a eharge made by anticipation for a period of from he (the Duke of Richmond) to a certain extent, agreed withd
i (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, however, shoul
pat ordysitabmenths. The Caaltster sells his malt, receiving "
1. to the remember that it was Parliament that was
.respon-
,,,Kle on tia Price of the malt, but also the amount of duty
sible for the existence of the defects.—Hear. A Bill epon
wl"es a,, at article. And the consequence is, that hesre-
this subject was passed last gear, and he could not help think-
.l., to
ealocienton of the State money equal to one-fourth of' the .
ea of the article ; and with that money he could-
dl red that 'let
h atr.l buy barley at reduced prices. He be.; had gthat the Noble Lord would have better served his purpose
m he stated his complaint there. With respect to the malt-
tti•te aholitio -e
egricultural interests could obtain tbe imme- h could not follow his Noble Friend upon this branch. of
thax,d.
seussion. He was aware that great difference of opineon
tia. °atone"' of thls duty, and allow the five millions of duty
tec amongst the ,farmers of the. country upon the subject
a, it weeati en that article to be imposed in any other many existed
themalt-tax,but Noble Lords • must remember that the
es on ea not he so beneficial as the present mode. There
° 1 sur of the overment would render this tax a
ied Paolt, howee to which the Noble Lord had not propose( mea .
e,r, , IT . .er, h Govern had been. The Noble Lord
' great deal heavier t an
ta, ' ey the
eel melt ster is subject to a tax, paid for the meet.
had quoted a number of professors, and amongst. them Mr.i
e nv:d k ele_a"roumer, but he forgot to state that he also main.:
Graham, a name not very likely to take with the egricultura
ia" el-4.s
_'eartenopol its of the article. He hal power over all the_
interest, to show that malt was not well adapted to the fatten-
thtle by
tri,(l distille of the country; and no use could beof • but the farmers of England preferred the. mon?,
Enee e`na of the pi oduce of the country. In this manner . sag Royal '.
~
this e '3, bail , • '. • ' 1, dh• ' of -the Age ice. Society , lture " The practice of science,
an soeas, ts, e)-grower inaintamed his monopo y, an N
.4 - 4to the theories of science. lie knew a gentleman,. who was e
sat. t.e ,o,.,„e's tax was a positive goad to the proeucer. .
most extensive farmer in the county of Norfolk, who had
!tons'd by th•i-et any loss alleged to be sustained must be mea-
tried the experiment of feeding with malt,
.and who
rn were eteadvantage which would be gained if the restric- .
woold tell the Noble Lord that it was infinitely. superior to that
relent teen na°ved. Inquiries have been made by some very '
f y eher method-he had ever heard of. Before he sat down
ative ~,,,at by Professors Graham and Playfair, into the
allltere.
potr _
1 of barley in a malted and unmalted state, for agri- of
an
t again retest against the removal of the existing pro-
e'etter ie a Poses, and they were of opinion that it was much c must
to nativep 'industry ; but he could not do so without at
section
lion !taloa umealted state. In G.srma there was. no tax time congratulating the agricultural interest that the
the
same
Lordthe late Secretary for the Colonies had vacated his
Noble .
rotas and noprohibitionDuties with re ect to its use
etir se, Liet.,
had . sp •
ffice for the sake of principle; and
.. was likely to bring the
tea'r &sek:, 'tie given a similar opinton. There was an- a of
rts. on nro, t° which he would allude, be meant the exemp-
benefit of his great eloquence and ability to the cause f
'Ate ' ua'e and legacy duties. That was a tax which e domestic indutsry. In conclusion, he- could only say that 1
,squall,...Considered as partaking a little of inequality, but the these measures came up to.their Lordships'
House he should
eeo ,Y was rather to the do his utmost to induce their Lordships to throw them out,
to, r'qeitilieiltl • advantage of the landed interest,
because he did believe that if these. measures were passed they
es." redressee se prineiple,however, of allowing one inequality
would entail ruin upon the agricultural. interest, upon the
tesidered: •by another. With respect to that taxation he
labourers,upon domestic industry, and inflict injury upon
"at a, • ulat tilotlA it was much dwelt upon, it was not so
%al • " had been r s .the manufacturers o the coon y.
Rene
it was
rodr . ( presented. Everything was a grievance.
e:re he helier es'•id."-( Hear.) The taxes on agriculturists' discussion which
• Earl GREY would nut then enter into a
Id hereafter have to be brought before. them, except so far as
Iv tits, Lor,„3,eid fairly distributed, as they were placed on ter- would
expressa his concurrence in the opinion of the. Noble Lord
tehoh "am._tereounes, ag,ricultural implements, &c. The law ..fe° 1 that when tlie question was decided, it ought to be
1 ee,,, c. I the agriculturists had contained a number ePposi e,
a salaasfor the partial advantage of fele • interest, but for the
, 1 te. , .
'leis' '"t Was so `jut 11 t settled, not i
benefit of allc asses of the community.—( Hear, hear.
i,.. se tette_, -‘u e exceptioaa that it was irnpessible to general
e lvee_ red a flag ; but, He was
persuaded
that when they so considered the subject,
at any rate, exec lions were onl • the interest of one, but the in-
reet, ,r of the agriculturists. However,the - lofthese They would find that not y .
,e sere `could come under • the oho_e the adjustment of this
tt
w....
,0 . .
the invest terest of every class was concerned in .
.}ears
1° " - rry that in that debat.. investigation of the Committee. show that during the thirty sears
No
tr rtained sincer.. respect (Lo -st ble Lord, for whom he gra°. . -
t question. They-would
aasa t• tthe League.. ticoon had existed, it had been atterided with
te c ,onso 0 (Lo,-,1 el
r Dome) had introduced the; in which proti
that body, neither had be any int onteagle)never belonged' constant disappointment, and they had never for five years t.o-
reor erest in •ofagricultural dm-
we, he must say that he (lid not lik its concerns ; nay,' gether been free from the pressure extreme
'Y it had done. He must not ' •
n e bodies rotting in the tress. He for e would.
one
undertake to show, when the proper
t'''?"lsible for its actions ' 11-""r' b° ace t d time arrived for his doing so, that this had been the reside of
eel._ .
_ hecauen, he chose to ex.oun e re-
~periodprotection
lielslans l ,netthee .did he approve- of the prress these the protective, system. From the earliest
.......,
con I .had been a failure 'and at different . inteevale metralße. soh Bring
sele,ed'onf the cross benches (the -Duke of Ilieh.moon(ll)N,9b.oe had Proatfeed change's; ' and after trying- .one aart afell.r°,!(!ls,°9
kith
.the past, teresent; and futurettansactions of that bwd °
e after inatliset, ills Partner found that nose of ahem .eve!..r,,ai i..ed
tl,, ; wtsbed to know what had the question of the Lees, o" ' hopes • and now, after basting for a long series of years been
(111 e',.‘b , the subject before their Lordships ?—(
C;,.i.,eue to
his
'to great disaPpointments, they had come to the con-
'''slf,'-' near.") Ilis Noble Friend (Lord Ducie) Isiimor subjectedvderation of she question whether it would net be better thatd
atid e adverting to the representations which were matt; protection should be abolished altogether.
.As he had said
ape, h' at liertons ought to abstain from making remarks "Or;
h ' es before, he would not then go into the
.discu slop of the quEs.,-
tel e Made by persons in another place; but the Noble Lord tion, but
when the proper tune arrived, he should be pre-
set not eds. I a
v 0,,, ,P c the advice he had given, ashe had quoted from P meet the arguments of the Noble Duke. He wished
onwedto
etcsolea„erai the members of the League. Now he (Lord strictlyto confine himself to the subject immediately before
then House, and as this Committee is not to be considered as
eeewhieit',',) wished to see the League cease, the promoters
'',lr ne believed, • t the men of all others in this a reason .
“a,, a wee were jus , for postponing the discussion or settlement of the
ow before the country, ho should not offer it
great question n .
tele, ers),_ were desirous that their labours should end— , ommon interest with the Noble
o 'position. Having a c
(ele:trua4nridr,ehe believed, rejoiced that their Lordships were
ro)rd Who proposed it, in the prosperity of the land, he greatly
amend' heat,
to
Ina cause which would extinguish the League
lamented that the Noble Lord had.raase dthis question, because
to r Meet,' With these expressions, h. should move an
the subject wasproperly sfted and
_ _
re '''' rho following • " '..
• • he was convicted
Prated.
~ or, nth,, , e effect :—" And also to inquire and . it would be proved. that they, as land-
Pre considered,
Pre,eaal lis. a legislative exceptions and pecuniary advantages 1111':T. proportion of public
instead of bearing a. larger
ileq....:' lase in respect to taxation as affecting landed holders, taxation than other
*lsich etati el Fe burdens, were .
subject to much less
His Noble Friend who had
duce had 1,, -'SEX defended Sir R. Peel from the charge classes of the community.
that tithes were
t on was mistaken in supposing
te, the dude 4 ruade against him, that he hal consented to re- proposed the mo 1 forward
,laese ' or, the • His Noble Friend, however, put
tore en (1,, , e importation of cattle, but had sustained ,
a burden upon land.
were a burden upon land,
tier,- " aTa:O on corn.illustration to show that tithes
an . d tenth of the
downer, who was charge a
but hrequioue LIN could net but admit that this was a ques. the case of the un Noble
, for tithes; and then the..
the ,' was bur' the, deepest consideration of the. Leislature, cloth which he produced.
downer could enter into competition
to Protest Ina to en his counter protest, in opposition to Lord asked how the -ra,
tio of th_ er
lord ;es. II Noble Lord on the, other side, with respect with. the
He milincr
that this was a Very plausible argument..
ifter;ata..e ahne ~,,Ild not understarst on what graund the Noble tithes.
confessedoker the position of the mill-owner, and make it
aett'a e toe the,o"2 wed the assertir,74 that the tithes were a fixed but let. them
ties trse,. 'S. ' lonfl ; for ;analogous to the position occupied by the
de •be d ' o that position he in something more
,d
:sal'ea u'etbo I b a 'll "'nal ' For Lords. A millowner purcnase a piece . of land for the site of
ted sam he eetara ' 0 chief grounds of his argument.
mill,and he agreed to pay a charge of
.Ipo/. a year. Now
that t was es
it h'
eatual to assert that the charge for tithes
a wanted to know what difference it made to the =Downer
only t'r, rent it 7 , ' if not more high., 'sacred, and indefeasible,
heh
id 100!. a year to the owner of the site or whether
*es held'ook to se'l• In ascertain; this point, they had whether. . epa
he, t the Peculiarity
'sato • °r %'ho„ of the tenure on which the land , e
he paid 90/. a year to
the it with
ths a purchaserh facttithe was
, fought an estate he invariably I-e was,, . not a burthen upon land, and the land-
thaae, end ta e knewleeee had r o right to claim compensation for this
chat it was burdened with this culler and occupierandthre„
b„rit,hat whirreielliiturchase etsas 'cif'',alleged b •lard was vested jointly in the la.nd-
cted for a much smaller sum
rbut den,
a'n'ti tile former had no. more right
t'hottpt 9, `'}'2ar.,,,d 5 ''',4,)u' :i have had to pay for it had it not
"ne'
ande
for tithe-owner,he charge of the latter than he had.
-'rail al
•°' lh i • - •therefore, have no reason to- to claim compensation.
fre Y ate, ec- -en would, ' title to land which did not belong to him.
to claim a
o-ns hi "l• •aeleht from his funds, which the tither via- to
reference to the malt-tax, ho believed that barley was
eestle as, •' -eon the returns which he expected to derive
the most profitable article that the farmers could geoWs- and
"et, ' .ate' On a fall examination of the subject it
4., . pear that ,
convinced
that there was a demand for all the' barley
s 'oat toe • •
're was this difference bet :ten tithe and he a
wscould be grown in this country. But the Noble Duke
loin, "senses rens •• - -1, a gee upon the land, which
srera . „ teeand ~ eas sirnp !,, a. c. ~ ~. has told them of the prohibition to feed
• s (Richmond) .
Prets'id,,i aed • ,
fall with
.the pretits which were derivedtrue that all the most em•
cattle with malt. It is perfectly -
steed °T te, laud,
'0 much of an abstract from the capita orthat.
neat chemists have shown, upon scientific principles,
inure, far it and, tithe,- on the contrary, took a higher
etaa'atele , was not barley_is more 'useful for the fattenaig of cattle than being
only a charge upon the land, but one so
ed into malt. He (the Duke of Richmond) had
tikt.ed for toonnected with its original title to tenure, that it turn,
stated that the
motto of the Royal Agricultural Society is
thi ti,forne such accidents, but took the tenth of the pro-
" Practice with science." Now he begged to inform him
whet the loan!? of those rises or falls were ascertained,
that ieartice and experiment had supported the conclusions of
er , -ever r eoprietor ' had a right to claim his share,
It
o'eriartt, :light .be i'ln a report which had been presented to the House of
the results either to landlord
science.
ens last session, it had been shown that barley, bruised,
lion be a,i',l whatever prices the produce might command. Commons
or soaked, was better adapted for the fattening of
tem Fri ' C coasumer wfao eventually paid the tithe. His crtutsce
0,, . I ;ban if it were converted into malt. Farmers
g'ost„easte 'a °site had said that the consumer paid the
cattle
ht now boil the malt, and get all the
dried, ade
beet , the a ‘,...that the iteposAion of tithes did not add to the might now
from it which they would (skald if
Nee in a eerrlle• lie naoula assume that a mill should be vantagestos
convertedh into malt. The ugly thing forbidden by
ee
_,
.ise the :in town, and ts hat by some law the condition im- and
til Legislature is the act of drying and converting it into
the Sion ittldwaer should be that the tenth part of every piece
malt.e "Experiments had been instituted by these gentleman,
aetela,le—sw„e, in that mill set mild be used for the benefit o i
and the result.had been thatat was the most economicaluse
the
_ri , Th_A.ld tile tithe so iin, nosed not add to the cost of the
bfattening to
arle, not made into malt,, for the perposei of
to
seeiceurntNere uarden of one-ten, th would increase the cost. to k
In Germany, where there are no fiscal regulations .
''"? rtaw ',l i Sul'lnssie that other mill were built in the cattle
'''- n 5-`).l ' t -g
• a° burden,wouldnot the i affect the practice of fattening.
cattle with malt, that article is
444
lilac of that ees o no tithe talc or
tused. He entreated their or s 1 S .
4' h,. ,i tio "'ill bo , ',1)1,.!ct to un, lersell the first owner, who no as •I t ale
to meddle with the malt-tax. In the. A o e sc
toe 'tens Pat' ? Ti"- . the n, looking at those things vernment .
d so little upon the public as the malt-
eroatry,
eette be 1),„,),',45:,: NTf,4::' s'ooltural community of
.this of duties,, none presse is
only
.
ahe rs,,atele th., . a l)y the age, ..tax. Beer, after all, 1 a luxury. There are other
foreign competition;would rather
tiarrees 'tea ee -t onual be e • tj:'
they bore ffi • to luxuries to the labouring classes, upon which hei
Or, ? , thei '44•, were
n,, posed - t.ley so cunt. l th-e would
et tr r
stackingas , 4t the burdens et foreign competi- see.
ee 1.,
the du' diminished—tea, coffee, sugar—all these es
titta hie .a For protection again •-si market, which he nuinately more to the advantage6. of the labouring
classes, if
oi ,ee s, oeen ra.' earn was brought into' ti nth of its pro- 1 the duties were reduced upon these ins ea
of t dof the malt. They
er 01 a 8 Lltui,e ited on ground th t'd 1 •"t campeterevenue. He had
. ~: e.
,r‘t tack _. of the charges of a pat . one-te. i
'if, i are ail already too high for the purposes
of .
an in-
t) to
..e., wifassed ors eround c.ultivatien, cools 1 jee 0 ,
•t t I heard with regret and much alarm of the proposal
ten-
tretees'at, epa.eteeee ? „it.
__ easily cultivated and s. ,t de- ' ere", P• orr-t- ••• • d e r , fix There had been of late a great.
• " • ' —• ' fera
• ^a- iasect teem ion and place in iti, Stead as3s.
phi: ' (len to remove ee..... .. - --
0, 14 -.3? ,sr__ ,--, .: Noble Lord who opened the . t , ' .1' .
ea_ ter
.esea„e tveily elude a distinctionwith regard to . of direct taxation. —( Hear,
hear.) It had been stated that
cation (414 seie sem, and , e
wutitit re, , .
of . tax" . tet avail himself of that distnica the poor-law imp
. I • osed upon real property a tax Gomel to 12 per
oril ,,t it certain paid 1;; 7lie corn-growers. were not for this _ sat. lt must, however, be borne in mind that this charge
;the arge, and cal's or ,"11,triet, but for the•benefit -of the et not exclusively uponland; houses; canals, n_ a d railways paid
one tee!he would ash which of the two stacks of was '• etre/portion. The exemption with referencelo stock in
"ae fro large -
• ni blirde - aleel the other heavily taxed— . a '

trade extenied equally to the stock and capital of the (
farmer as to the tradesman or manufacturer; but. it yMtsid
attended with great d Cathy to meettaln vitltie of the in-
come of caela party r'esiNr.t IA the parish. The Noble Lord
itOrd BZsaileient) had given them a very formidable list of
the burdens on land, not excluding the militia-rate, which has
net, however, been levied for some years, and which I hope
wi'l not be levied again.—( Hear, hear.) Land in this courts
try bears a much higher value than it deer in AriaCi'ita Or other
countries. In the western pirtS of America the finest prairie
land may be purchased for four dollars (about 45.) an acre.
Not: land of an equal quality in this country would let at a
price of from 40s. to 50s. an acre. What causes this difference?
Why does land in this country yield as an annual rent t.betit
ten times as much as the sum for thin in America you could
purchase the whole fO-simple of a similar quantity and quality
in Atterlea? Simply on account of the large population of the
country, great markets, and good roads. It is these which
give an increased value to land, and it is upon these circum-
stances which of all others Mr. Geo. Robins, or any other
most eloquent auctioneer, would delight to expatiate. In this
case then, if thee circumstances tend to improve the value of
the estate, is it not perfectly fair that the burdens should be
borne by the owners?—( Hear, hear.) He considered, taking
the whole of the circumstances into his consideration, that the
present burdens upon land were nothing more than
payments for value received. He should not therefore
object to this Committee. But he warned Noble Lords not to
carry the inquiry too far. And there are many persons who
will not be wanting, in pursuing that inquiry, to expatiate very
largely upon the information which that report may furnish.
They would consider that the proportions of the burthen on
land in this country was not so much as it was either in France
or in Austria. When the land-tax was first imposed in 1692,
there was a tax of four shillings in the pound; that tax remains
the same at the present period, notwithstanding the value of
land—as appeared in the returns made to the House of Com-
mons—was increased to the value of eighty-five millions ; and
that excluding a great amount of income under 150!. per
annum. He should not therefore oppose the motion of the
Noble Lord.
Lord ASH BU RTON considered it paradoxical that the charge
upon land in the shape of tithe before the Commutation Act
was a burden, while after the passing of the Act it ceased to be so.
Their Lordships were aware that before the Tithes Commuta-
tion Act, tithes were virtually commuted. The land-tax was
thrown over by the Noble Lord himself. The poor-law was
kept up in America in the same state as it was kept up here.
The statutes of Elizabeth, in respect of the poor-laws, were
observed in that country. He would say with respect to the
land changes—leave them as they are, but give compensation
to those lands which had to meet such burdens. With respect
to protection, or compensation, or whatever else their Lord-
ships wished to call it, it was not only due to the land, but if
they attempted to take it off they would throw much of the
land out of cultivation. There was ne comparison between
the land of this country and the land of America. In the rich
prairies, of that country land was nothing, but labour was
everything. -
Lord BEAUAIONT, in reply, said, the Noble Lord had
stated that the cost of keeping up turnpike roads was not a bur-
den on land. Now the cost of keeping these roads amounted
to 2,5-0,100/., and of that from 1,200,0001. was defrayed out
of the funds raised from land.
The motion, with the addition, was then agreed to.
The Duke of WELLINGTON was quite satisfied, now that
the Committee was appointed, no unnecessary delay would that
t.,ke place, but that the result of the inquiry would be laid on
the table as soon as possible.
Lor.t BEAUMONT intimated that no time would be lost in
laving the report on the table.
ADMINISTRATION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.
Oa the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, the Admi-
nistration of Criminal Justice Bill was read a third time.

of the abolitiou of the cornslatts had but beets
etentietv.4l iii 1811, the !1 it Might lia.Z.t been rage?, that the
question could not be entertained by the present Parliament ;
but the question of the repeal of the core-laws was entertained
by the electors of 1841, and no Parliament could better decide
upon it than the present ; for if they went to the electors again,
he was sure a more respectable class omen could net bereteriief.l;
nor a elms! in Whoffiethe elektols *mild have More 'coMidente,
A great many Honourable Gentlemen opposite were in a pee
sit ion to entertain that question. Even at the present moment
a gentleman, a candidate for Suffolk, declared to his mangle
t mints that he would leave himself open to whatever he shouldconsider best fer the interests
hear.
Noiv that gentleman, though a protectionist at present, might,
on hearing the question discussed, be induced to give a vete
)
for the abolition of all protection. It happened to him (Mr.
Gibson) to know that appeals were made on behalf of the
Mends of the Right Honourable Baronet at the heed of
her Majesty's Government on these grounds as well
as on the grounds of peotectioti. It had been tirged
in the manufacturing districts that the Right Hohoitsable
Baronet and his party would do more for free-trade principles
than would the Noble Lord the Member for London and his
party, were they in office ;
and he (the Hon. Member) was
reproached with being one of a party that could not effect so
much as the Administration of the Peesent Premier. The
supporters of Sir George Murray took that ground ; though
every man of common sense knew that the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head of her Majesty's Ministry professed freeetrade prin-
ciples, and that he could do more for their advancement than
could Lord Jehn Russell if in power. If there existed a charge
of deception or misleading of persons outside that House, that
charge should rest against the representatives of the agricultural
interest. They made the tenant farmers believe that Parlia.
ment would maintain those protective laws. He could only say,
that, for himself, he bad advised Hon. Members not to pursue
that course. He had advised them not to keep telling the
tenant farmers that the Right Hon. Baronet would support
those laws. They did, however, pursue their own cour.e ; they
persevered in telling the.tenant farmers that those laws would
be supported, and they were now reaping the benefit of that
perseverance. The Right Honourable Baronet had taken his
place in the Ministry on peculiar grounds. When called upon
to propose in respect to the law effecting the agriculturist,
he was asked to state his views ; and his reply was," call me in,
and then I shall prescribe for you." They had called him
in, and he had prescribed for them a draught more
bitter than therseemed inclined to swallow.—( Laughter. )
They were told that the British farmer was unable to compete
with the Polish, because he had certain expenses in
the cultivation of the soil which were not borne by
the foreign farmer—(Hear)---and that in a farm of
three parts arable land and one of pasture, labour rated
at 355. an acre, and local taxes at 25., making altogether a
tax of 375. an acre. They were also. told that the average
quantity of wheat was four quarters to the acre ; !lox, by
a common process of calculation, they would find that
nine shilling; a quarter on.wheat was :the i!em complained
of as constituting the debility.—(Cries of " No, no," from the
Ministerial side.) Yes, the other items were borne by the
foreign farmers as well as by them, and they had re-
pudiated with indignation any intention of preserv-
ing high rents by maintaing protection. Could it
be denied that this was a fair statement ? Agricul-
tural labour in America was much more expensive than
it was in England.—(Hear, hear.) It was very well known
that the wages of agricultural labourers were at least double
in America as compared with agricultural wages in
England.—(Hear, hear.) It was urged by the protectionists
that they lay under peculiar burdens, but the only local taxa-
tion which he knew of was ls. per quarter on corn, and
surely that could not disable English agriculturists from com-
peting with those in foreign countries.—(Hear.) It appeared
to him a perfect mystery how they were disabled from
entering into such a competition. Why, the very fact of
the freight of Bs. or 108. per quarter on wheat coming
from the United States, together with all other ex-
penses, more than covered the amount paid by
English agriculturists in local taxation. The English
agriculturists were protected by the natural comae of things,
and they could not rightfully complain of any injustice being
done to them by the present ministerial mea-
sure. He contended, that even if they could show that
they lay under any disabilities with regard to the price of
labour, they did not pay near as much as was paid by the foreign
agriculturist in importing his grain into this country,
and they were, therefore, entitled to no protection
from the Legislature.—(Hear, hear.) He contended that the
foreign coin trade was as goad a branch of industry as the
trade in agriculture which was carried on in this country,
and that they were entitled to carry on their trade
free and unmolested.—(Loud cries of " Hear; hear.")
The Hon Member for Hun'ingdon talked of an arbiter com-
ing amongst us to settle this question by some compromise.—
(" Hear," from the protectionists.) If such an arbiter did
come amongst them, he maintained that his decision would be un-
doubtedly in favour of the manufacturers. —( Opposition cheers.)
It was said that the repeal of the corn-laws would reduce the
value of land, but he confessed he could not see how this could
be, for ever since the corn-law question had been agitated land
had fetched as good a price as it did before.—( Hear hear. )
Land had been taken at the same rent also as before, and in
some cases at increased rentals, and if they had a
better test of the value of any given produce, or another
that was likely to be effected by a Legislative measure, it was
in the willingness or unwillingness which capitalists evinced to
invest their money in that. commodity. Well, then, land
fetched as good a price now, and tenants were equally as ready
to give good rents, as they were years ago. Now this could
not be because• they had confidence in the protection party
maintaining the:corn-laws; for if they did they would be convinced
of the mistake they were falling into, when they remembered
that the most eminent statesmen, the Right Hon. Baronet on
one hand, and the Noble Lord on the other, were arrayed
against them. —( Hear, hear.) All parties were just as ready
as ever to invest capital in land, and be could mention an
instance which had occurred in the county of Suffolk within
a recent period, and which had been communi-
cated to him by a friend of his, where sixty-
three land tenants who were paying exceedingly
high mitre notwithstanding the rumours about the repeal of
the corn-laws, had made agreements for renewing their leases
for very long periods, and not one of these 63 tenants had
asked for a reduction of rent.—(Hear, bear.) Twenty of
them stated that the farmers had discussed the question
amongst themselves, and they had decided that they
were not justified in calling for `a.'reduction of rent.
(Loud cheers.) He was not prepared to mention the name
of his friend, but if any Honourable Member required
it, he would be ready to communicate it privately to him.
Let him ask what was the meaning of all those alarms about
the repeal of the corn-laws? were they (the protectionists) not
jealous of the advance of trade, and was not that the cause of
their resistance to the measure?—(Cheers, and cries of " No.")
He should be sorry to see any among the ancient aristocracy
of England—the high families of this country—guilty of
such unworthy feelings as to be jealous of manufactu-
ring prosperity. But such, he feared, was the case.—
(" No, no," from the protectionists.) Was it not
a fact that it was a test of the fitness of a
manufacturer to a seat in the Upper House, that he should be
the purchaser of an estate ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman at the head of her. Majesty's Government,
on a former occasion, said that he was sure the repeal
of the corn-laws would not be detrimental in any measure
to the landed interest, and would not in the slightest degree
tend to alter the value of land.—( Cheers. ) That was his (Mr.
Gibson's) opinion, and he did not see any reason why the aris-
tocracy of England should be jealous, as they were
--(No no) —of the advance of free-trade principles.
He did not see any reason why they should entertain such
feelings ; for, after all, he very much questioned,
whether many of them were not descended from
the manufacturing classes of this country.—(Cheers.)
He contended that it had been the system of the country, and
could be proved, that possession of land had led to the highest
offices in the State. He contended that the landed gentry
monopolised to a great extent the principal offices
and emoluments in society—(Hear, heir, and cheers)—for
it was a boast that they make Ministries and unmake them at
their pleasure.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Shrews-
bury had said truly, that " the aristocracy of the country was
a territorial aristocracy." All this he brought forward to show
the great advantages enjoyed by the landed proprietary of the
country. He believed that competition from so many causes
being unlimited, that they need fear nothing from the aboli-
tion of the corn-laws. He did not bring these matters for-
ward as charges against the aristocracy ; but as far as his read •
iug an.d. experienca went, he was led to the cenclusionthat they
.had used their functions, for their private and pecuniary interestse
and for, the advaneement of their own power.—
(Hear, hear.) There was one portion of the 'present question
to which lie wished to allude, namely, that, if tie corn-laws
were to be totally abolished, why that abolition should
not take place at once ?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Why should they defer to another day what
justice was said to require, and what the necessities of the
country peremptorily called for ?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Whether the emetgencies of the country did not say that a repeal
of the corn-laws was called for. He believed that on entering into a
competition with foreigners, they could not do better than take
them by surprise by an immediate repeal of those laws.—(Hear,
hear.) With respect to the famine which Was expected to take
place in Ireland, it appeared to him that in order to make the pre-
sent measure advantageous to the exigencies of that country, not
one farthing duty should be kept upon corn. The present argu-
ments in favour of the measure before the House were highly
favourable for an immediate repeal of the corn-laws. The Right
lion. Baronet had said that about two months ago it was almost
necessary to open the ports. Nothing would do now but a settle
mcnt of this law, for while any-thing in the shape of a duty on corn
W. maintained, the agriculturists would be continually complain-
ing. Ile wished to settle the question by an immediate repeal, for
he was sure the agriculturists would not benefit by a continued
duty. Those who were looked to by the country In this arouse to
get rid of those laws, would certainly take the sense of the House
on an immediate repeal. The question was now before the country,
it had forced itself into this Honse in the teeth of an adverse majority.
The question was there in spite of them, and it never would have been
so had it not been backed by the opinion of the country.—(Hear.) lie
believed that if any motion of theirs could endanger it, it would be
thrown Out by the House of Lords. The measure was not carried
by the present Parliament, it was not carried by any politicians
either in or out of the House ; it was carried by the voice of the
country if it were carried at all—(lleer, hear)—and unless it re!ted
on that substantial base it would fall. Did they wish to.know what
public opinion was ? There was no better barometer of that opinion
measures were agitating the public mind,
than the Right lion. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) If they wanted to
pufhloole,i4ence Vicar, hear, and cheers)—
know what greatconduct, for he had measured
let them look to his
• o ion
eeesta
talked
°they would not Its public men, they should
speak of that confidence themselvesp in opposition
s which inquiry would rove to be neces-
to, or resist the change
the way
for public men to acquire that confidence
le conjuredextrem feltyhhcewn eotirke
sary. That was .
rings ty L t a terly public men had
and not by the maueew, e
they
cheers)—
and jwuisitellyt attpciy*eelated
pursued this course; sought not so much for the old party words
which could not be defended with
ial.
lie did conjure the I a this question. He them g
classes into action upocredit,notto
heap them with defeat d disgrace,
lie an
and which could only
they would not be discharging their t'uty to the
country should think that
length of time to elapse before
they pro-
country if they allowed anythose artful deficiencies which they saw
pro-
vided some remedy for
face, and which were stated to the House the
of Whig and Tory, ainnuilsothenoctontsneqrnal
staring them in the • of State for the Home Department.
other night by the Secretary
ad told Biel •
n that he expected nothing
That Right lion. Gentleman
Irelandi
prolong the conflict
during the coming summer.—(Hear,
less than a famiue in
..ts
a most urgent reason why they should
hear.) That, therefore,
NtsiOn of Parliament tth esent time
not consent to lii
0111119 side of the House e pirorted the Go
(Cheers.) Hon. 1)
present Members question, not ebeacaaPu'se they be--
vernment on the
sea on public opinion, but simply be-
lieved it was the pr • t '
present Parliament was bound
cause they believed
to
n
provide a reedy for the present national emergency by the in
l measure, and they believed that that remedy
troduction of a national
ki (Cheers ) implored Hon. Gentle-
should be provided quic
their. present futile opposition to the carry-
.1
men opposite to abandon
hear.) He calk upon them once more
in; of this measure.—(l ea
stider that te really had no right what-
before he sat down to eon..
lay down thence nditions under which the •
ever wider the aim to
manufacturers and merchants of
this country should carry on their
tight to Importation into nos'
country Foreign corn had as ni
ll let or undrance as they themselves'
country free of a . t their own • red
had a right to cultiva e
their present /mitt t
theta, therefore, tavere entitled to antiquated
pretension, that theyti
al.ould be say under what
carried on. lie called upon
Bons the trade of this eoun ry
them to he satisfied with th and yof a quiet enjoyment of their
commerce that hin freedom.
own estates and to let trade . rls
felt himself bound to vote against the
Mr. IIItLSEY said be
, Met be • h
measure• Certain 0 rs on the opposite side of t e
present , • CI sto those on his own side, but
House had imputed imp P,
tes e
what Justice . —Meer hear.) If Noble Lords
he would ask, with
I o II
would attend to the details, t u ( find that the difficulties o.
By reduced Those burdens which
the question would be
hialer.l
indwe * •
were alleged to be peculiar afforded re amply compensated for by
by the law as it now stood ;
the protection which was
protection
were to be lowered, and the capital.
and if that pro
invested in land were to be.rencedfin value, an ample compensation
would be made by the remtsst; 9 that portion of taxation which
• la
presSed upon it. hfist there was protection there was
partieu . •
when the protection was removed, and in the
eventoftiopeculi ar burdens;
a total repeal, it would be necessary to relieve real property
from some of the impositions under which it now laboured. Ito
considered that one of the greatest evils that would follow the '11!

The Duke of RICHMOND moved for certain returns re-
garding local taxation from the year 1821 to 1845,—Agreed to.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS brought in a Bill for the
better protection of life and property in Ireland, which was
read a first time. _

The second reading was appointed for Monday next.
The other Bills on their Lordships' table were then ad-
vanced a stai4e, and the House adjourned at a Quarter pas-
Nine o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Monday, Feb. 16.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the order of the day for resuming the adjourned
debate being read,
Lord MARCH said he could assure the House that
t wss not his intention to enter at any great length
into the consideration of the question then before
it, or to trouble them with any statistical de-
tails, as Honourable Members who preceded him
on Friday night had gone so fully into the
matters that he should consider it presumptuous in him-
self to follow in that course. At the close of the de•
bate on Friday night a Noble Lord, the Member for
Dungannon, astonished him (Lord March) not a
little indeed (Hear and a laugh) although
irons the recent conversions that he had noticed
he ought not to feel surprised.—(Hear, hear.)
That Noble Lord, in the short. period of one month, had
made two speeches in that House, one on either side of
the question.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) However, it
was not for him (Lord March) to say to what that
change in his ideas was owing ; but he should
say that he did not seem to have attended to
the debate, for his speech had been al-
most one-sided. The lion. Member fur Bridport had
made a statement, and he (the Noble Lord) wished to
urge on him the necessity which every man of honour
in that House would admit to be correct, that no man
should make a statement in that House withoutbeing fully
convinced of its truth and accurrcy. He stated that a
Noble Duke, who was a member of the Administration that
passed the Reform Act, threatened to swamp the House of
Lords. lie must appeal to the Hon. Member whether the
Noble Duke did not resign his seat in the Cabinet when
such principles were broached, and ho was sure that if
the Hen. Member was present, he would bear him out
in that statement.—(clear, hear.) He believed the
Noble Lord, the Member for the city of London, would
bear him out in that statement. Now, with regard to the
immediate question before the House, he believed that it
would be the ruin of the agricultural classes of this
country. It was said that free-trade would be of im-
mense advantage to Ireland. This he could not believe,
for he had not heard of the Hon. and Learned Member
for Cork taking part in the debate. During the five
nights 'die question had engrossed the attention of that
House, the Hon. and Learned Member had
not risen in his place to state that her Ma-
jesty's Ministers were about to confer a great advantage
on Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned
Member had done no such thing. The Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Ministers had said
that the agriculturists should lay out more capital on
their land in order to make it more profitable. lie had
said that the agriculturists did not yet know what great
benefits were to be derived by the improvements in
chemistry, as applied to land—that they were yet
in their infancy. He (the Hon. Member) m iintained
that if they were in their infancy, they required protection
The Secretary of State for the Home Department, in the
speech which he made the other night, stated that the
feelings of the whole bulk of the community were in fa-
vour of a repeal of the corn-law. Now he would main-
tain that the contrary was the case, and that the great
feeling of the country was in favour of protection.—
(Hear, hear.) It was his opinion that the measure of
the Government was opposed to the wishes of the peo-
ple ; and if the Right Hon. Baronet wanted a proof of
his statement, he would only refer him to the elec-
tions about taking place for Gloucester, Sussex,
and DJrsetshire. An llon. Gentleman opposite men-
tioned the city of Chichester ; but he would tell him
that in a canvass made by his brother for five days in
that town there were net over twenty gentlemen in
favour of free trade. There was a show of hands cer-
nproottdieiviolintzerctd
tainly in favour of the measure.—(hear, and cheers.)
His brother offered Lego ,to tampon, but the free traders
refused, from the bast tieesibie reasons, because
they aver_.. certain of being,Jacaten.-;beaten.-)
Neither the ' Chaocellor efeelie Exchequer nor the
Chancellor of the Duchy of taticestei had as yet de-
livered their opinions on this subject. He would wish to
know if they had changed, and what motives induced
them to support the Government ? The Noble Lord
did not say that in the year 1841. He was then an advocate
of protection to agriculture. It was no concern to him (the
Earl of March) how the Noble Lord at that time chose to
pledge himself to his constituents. But he (Lord Lincoln)
pial‘vaoastmsniebtgen:rta tpfofraoor,p.mt
party
Parliament a
favourm f oortagricultural the purpose of fr 0
tc c
protection—(Hear)—
of on following
_
(aHndear")—p-
of
Governmenthic the
wßtahitsghelei
at
ncppli
protectionists.)
oyontnseueoctfdt
iroaLthl inoilsent
dsbß.oa)anr
t.ohnee t
head.—(Cheers
dt
(hce
ha
ed a
roof
andthe
Thatthat
partyparty wasativa cer-
tainlyeatdteiddl
his
Nobleu:sr
Russell)
pl
hoo
atnr hdds e;
(Lordbs et strongest o
alterednf
e opposed to the proposal of the Noble Lord the
ghetesh taa Lincoln)ni
rd
otph manner.opinions
ot nhanyse r
or impure
pot "bh rl
Noble
motives
o
question he conceived that they were bound to consult their
changing
bggt
nh:
constituents, and see whether they approved of the change.--;
(Protectionists' cheers.) Their constituents sent them to Par-
liament to protect agriculture—( Hear, hear)—and they
were therefore in honour bound to support that in-
terest.—(hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet
at the head of the Government, vi hen he was member for
University of Oxford, and chose to alter his opinions, at once
resigned his post. The Noble Lord (Lord Lincoln) in the
year 1841 had addressed his constituents in different language
to that which he now held. He then said that free-trade was
all humbug—(Laughter)—and that if protection were to be
taken off agriculture, it should also be taken off every article
of manufactures, to every one of which a large protection
was at present given by the Government.—( Hear, hear.)
Now, he opposed the measure of the Right on. Baronet,
because he (the Earl of March) considered the principles of
free trade which were advocated for corn were equally favour-
able and good with respect to every other article.—(Hear.)
He opposed the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R.
Peel), because it put forward no new arguments on the sub-
ject. It was not his wish to sacrifice one classof her Majesty's
subjects in the country for any other, because he thought the
interests of the agriculturists with those of the manufacturers
were closely and ihtimately united. He thought what was in-
jurious to one class, was equally so to the other. He found
it impossible to advocate the measure before the House, from
the. speech made by the Right. Hon. Baronet himself, if there
were uo other reason ; but when he (the Earl of March) felt
that it Was wrong on principle and in justice, and detrimental
to all classes of her Majesty's subjects—Cries of " Oh, oh'' )--
he could not sanction such a measure.—( Cheers. )
Mr. BAILLIE COCHRANE said he did not wish
to misrepresent the conduct of the Noble Lora,
and that he was sure the Noble Lord would do
him the justice of thinking so. It was stated by the Noble Lord,
that a certain Noble Dtike stated that he would not oppose the
creation of Peers, should such be necessary; and it appears that
such was proposed to be done.
Mr. GIBSON said it would be unnecessary for him to detain
the House at any great length en the subject of the corn-laws.
The rrvain object which the party with which he was connected
had in view, was the abolition of all protection, and in that re-
spect lie should be always happy to go with the Noble Lord,
with his friends around him. But the question before them
was not protection to the manufacturers, but whether
they st,,,id resolve themselves into a Committee of the' whole
House to take into consideration the duty which regulated
the imports, with a view to a repeal of these duties.—( Cries of
"No, no.") He imagined that each part of the Right Hon.
Baronet's plan would be discussed separately, and he imagined
that the question before them was the question of the corn-
laws.—(Hear, hear.) He thought the question of what
Ministers had said at former times, or the relations in which
they stood to Hansard, was really of small moment to the
more important question of whether it was right or prudent to
cepeal'he corn-laws They told him that the present Parliament
%Nes elected to maintain protection, aml therefore this Parliament
could not deal with the question of protection, because that
question was settled et the general election of 1841. Now it
was because the question was settled at that election, that he
thought the present Parliament was the best fitted to decide
upon the propopition before therm If the cietetion

trtnitieteill of tills seleaSsire voilid .be, the fast that there #ailltceist
thioug-wee the country .n want of cenfidence iii theeionfestions of
pudic men ; and while it Wolin t bi to ref:lnce the standard of public
morality, it would deprive any Alminisrtatiou that bet M.:teeter
might tierce er form of its best and surest element of strength.
They had been told in a triumphant tone that they did not atteed
there as the delegates or the mouth-pieces of their constituents, and
he ,perfeetly aetreedi with. , this staeeshent ; , hut in doing so he
must s'4e..eS, Isionoufhle INeetelseea e that the m. did
there as the delegates ot Mouth-pieces
..,of c4r 111,,
Prime Minister; and if anything could justify,. the practice
of electors demanding pledges froni new, representatives, it would
the state Qf thiriss the then existed in that Hoose. The Right lion.
Bareliet, liad intornied.thern that thethanee ip his opinions was preis
cipally caused bey the
.aPprelieliSion that n famioe, would. be the con-
sequence of the paftial fallrife of the rotate, crop.tu Ireland. Now
he did not for a moment wish to speak with feeity noon a subject thet
affected the lives of millions of his fellow countrymen, bdt he dill
say that the opinions of the Right Hon. Baronet were not well
founded; end be for one did not entertain apprehensions to the same
extent hearl Theee wane. another subject on
which he wished to call the attentioh of tilli 11,dins4S1— Wear) There
were a body of men calling themselves the Anti-Corn-laeis LeaectiF;
and the Ilan: Gentleniani the Firat Lord of the Treasury, boasted
that lid had phi doWel all egitatidn in this country—(Cheers)—but
had they clot collected lafge enms of Money—lied they not
distributed agents through every part of the lartd—hid tliey slot
made speeches, and were they not tampering in the elections of
Monthere fdr that Ilotise ?-s•-(Ilear; hear.) Had they not collected
means to inflileride the eleetiela df Reuther's ter that House? He was
at a loss to know, *ere thoSe proceedintgs legal It-10re they honest?
—were they just ?--eveie they Mir ? And lie hoped, if they wets nut
legal; measures would lie taken to put a stop to gueli improper biter-
fetefice AS laid tho freguentle tfikeit plate. Ile hoped the Govern-
ment Would bring forstatid a measure Which ardiild pirefent snob
proceedings iii futiire.—(Cheera.) It was not his intention to mita'
Into the policy of that measure, which was supporting free trade et
the expense ?Attie agriculturists of tins country. If free trade was
beneficial id one article, he did not see why it was not beneficial in
every other article. It was Well-kninVit tie the Right, lien. 'Wristlet
that the grdwth of tobacco would be a most pfofiteible crop in this
country, tint this free-trade measure would not allow it to be
vfited here.-(Cheere.) HOW Was that? Would the Right Honour-
able Bardnet inform there ? Ht Mitt that edneicleidtionsetoed in the
way. Would the Right Hon. Baronet inform that liCtise what was
the amount of revenue which would justify free-trade principles ?
The Right Htliwarable Baronet had reduced the duty on foreign bops-
one-half, hilt he had laded ih rata 1W a reduction of those duties
which pressed so heavily on the agriettitafal chlestee. ale had
hoped that some teductien would take placd iii the
Excise duty Oil htipe; hilt he , timid hoped in van—(Cheers.)
What cetild the Eight MM. liaronet'e reaeori be for all that—was it
that he was afteld to carry out his own pfinCiplist?—(!leaf.) Ile
did not stand there as the advocate of free trade—(as we understood
the Hon. Sletnber)—bilt he teas there to advocate, in an humble and
honest way, eqtial jtistide and prethetithl Et all classes.—(Hear,
hear.) He was certain the House would bear liint out When he said,
that if protection -shoal be taken front agriculture, it should not he
conti tied towards other interests.—(Hear, hear.) There was ano-
ther matter which he wished ttf bring to the mind of the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of Government. He had told therit that he
could not calculate the price of wheat on the passing of the present
measure; now, should that crop fail to a large 'extent, would the
Wight Hon. Baronet say on What basis he proposed to settle the
tithe commutation ? (Hear, hear.) They had been told that the
revenue would not be effected ; but giving the Right Hon. Helmet
credit for the greatest amount of political sagacity, it would not be
too much to say that lee might be compelled to carry his measures
still farther.— (Hear, hear.) lie was aware of the little
weight that attached to his opinions ; but he should say
that, because lie believed the measure to be injurious and
ruinous to the labourer and the artisan—because he believed the
measure would tend to subvert the present system of society and en-
danger there most valued institutions ; because he believed that the
time for the introduction of the measure was not saleable, as cer-
tainly was not its proposer—(A laugh)—because of all these rea-
sons, he should give the measure, perhaps a weak, but decidedly a
consistent, opposition.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DICKINSON said that part of the speech of the last Hon. Mem-
ber was net what he could agree with. The Hon. Member had said
that if the duty on tobacco was taken off it would be of great advan-
tage. He could not agree with him, for if the duty were to be taken
off altogether he doubted If the trade could he carried on with any
profit to the country. The Hon. Member had also alluded to many
who had spoken in support of the present measure, as leaving done
so because they feared that no other Ministry could be formed to •
carry on the Administration of the country. He (Mr. Dickinson)
lied not formed his opinion on such a ground. Ile supported the
measure of her hlajesty's Government because he thought it a good
measure and suited to the wants of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Ail persons' minds were now made up On the question ; Hon.
Members were prepared to take one course or the other.
He considered that if the lovernment went out upon this measure, a
great and lasting injury would be Inflicted on the country. Ile sel-
dom trespassed upon thetime of the House ; and he now only rose t
tell those who had returned him to Parliament how far he had
changed his opinions, and also to give an opportunity to the speech••
makers to smite him as they had slanted the members of the Govern-
ment.—(Laughter.) But it seemed to him that there had been seve-
ral speeches made during that debate perfectly inconsistent with that
feeling of generosity which should animate Members of that
House.—(Hear, hear.) He saw that the temper of the House
had changed; and he, therefore, abstained from giving any
opinion at the hustings by which lie might be held to vete
in that House in favour of agricultural protection. He con-
fessed that his opinions had changed, and that ho was
now prepared to give his cordial vote in favour of the present mea-
sure. —(Opposition cheers.) The reasons which in general seemed
to weigh with him most at a former period in favour of a mainte-
tenat.ce of the corn-laws, were, that he feared that any change in
them would result in an injury to the poor; and he, for one, thought
that the supply of food should be es regular as possible, and that it
would be inexpedient to a country like this to be forced to depend
upon foreigners for foot —(Pretectionist cheers.) He must now,
however, confess that those reasons had lost much of their weight.—
(Cheers from the OpposPion.) It seemed to him that the best way
of securing permanent and regular supplies was to give the greatest
possible facility for the supply of corn from as many quarters of the
world, and from as different places as possible.—(Opposition cheers.)
If they were deficient, or the price should rise to a famine price,
they might be sure to meet with a sufficiency of food from places
where the atmosphere was snore favourable to the production of
corn than that in this country. As to the dependence open fo-
reigners for Mod, it was urged that we might sometimes be at war
with foreign countries, and we should then be in a deplorable condi-
tion. But he could not conceive that we should ever be so unfortu-
nate as to be at war with every corn-growing country in
the world.—(Hear, hear.) He considered that on the prosperity
of the higher classes of this country also depended the
prosperity of the lower, and by the passing of this measure the pros-
perity of time higher classes in this country.—(Hear, hear.) He had
heard from all sides of the House—from the Noble Lord who had
opened the debate, and the:Hen. Member for Manchester—that it would
have been better had the repeal of the corn-laws been immediate;
and, in conclusion, he begged to state • that he gathered from the
communication he had had with his friends in the country, that
this feeling was very general.—(llear, hear.)
A number of Hon. Members rose to address the House on the last
speaker's resuming his seat, but there being loud cries for the new
Member,
Lord A. CHURCHILL (who was almost inaudible in the gallery)
rose and said, that it was not his intention to detain the Hocse at
any length on that important occasion, as there were many others
who could more ably point out the injury which that measure would
do the agricultural classes in this country.—(Hear.) Still he felt ke
was right in saying that it was a measure of vast injury to the
classes who were depending for subsistence on land.—(Cheers. The
measure would throw out of cultivation the greater quantity of the
poor land In this country, and would have the effect of depriving
thousands of employment who were now dependine on agriculture
for their sole subsistence.
Sir WILLIAM CLAY-should say, that in the course of the present
debate he had been often reminded of an anecdote which was re-
lated of a defendant in an action, who, not having a case to make,
informed his agent that " there were no merits, but abuse the
plaintiff's attorney." The question they had then before them
was one of vast importance, not alone to that country, but to the
world ; and it was not enough for Gentlemen in the discussion of it
to indulge in party or personal recrimination.—(llear, hear.) To be
sure, such was very amusing—there was nothing more so, or nothing
that called forth louder cheers ; and whenever he heard
a cheer, when entering the House, and inquired what called it forth,
he was certain to be informed that it was a happy hit made by one
Hon. Gentleman at another.—(Hear and laughter.) But however
amusing that might lee to Hen. Members, he could assure them that
parties out of doors cared less than they supposed for their recrimina-
tion.—(Hear, hear.) One single argument, one important fact, to
show that the corn-laws should be maintained, would be worth all
the torrents of invective that had been showered.—(Hear, hear.)
The Gentlemen who attacked the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of
her Majesty's Government had overdone the thing completely.
They had proved too much against the Right Hon. Gentleman.—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Somersetshire,
had stated very fairly the question before the House. Ile undertook
to defend protection. He quoted statistics and the " Blue Book'
to make out his arguments. lie defended protection gene:ally. In
his (Mr. Clay's) opinion, the Hon. Member had not auceeeded. He
had failed where his reasoning powers and his eloquence were called
into play. He stated that the community at large were prosperous,
that all were doing well ; that blessings in fact were showered down,
and that all those blessings had been showered down under protec-
tion. The Hon. Member said that the House was about to take
away that protection by which the country had become so prosper-
ous. For some there was not protection at all ; for others there
was a little, and for the landlords there was too much. Now, for
the last twenty or thirty years, even before the time of Huskisson,
protection had been changing to a gradual reduction.
Would the lion. Gentleman restore the East India monopoly? Would
he alter Mr. Huskisson's measures? Would he retrace his steps with
regard to wool and sugar? If not, with what show of consistency
could lie call upon them to proceed no further? Or did he mean to
oppose his individual capacity to the tide of public opinion, and say
" Thus far shalt thou go, and no farther ?" What, he would ask,
was protection ? Stated shortly, it was everybody assisting very-
body to pay a little more than they were able; it was everybody
assisting everybody to misapply their time and capital, or everybody
assisting everybody to do something that could not be accomplished.
—(llear, hear.) All the great interests of the community
were outside of protection, and he did not believe that
the I cry of protection to native industry found an echo out of
that louse, fele the sprinciples of free trade had taken too strong ens
hold-upon the coantfy.Te-(lear, hear.). It was only by.'the preanef
tion of industry, by giving 'labour' and-capital. a fair field, and by-
unfettering, the restrictions of commerce, that the blessings of
abundance could be obtained; and the best and highest duty of any
Government would be the endeavour to obtain then benefits. The
Hon. Baronet had insisted very much on the competition which lied
been springing up of late years among the manufacturers. It
would be most important to throw still more widely open the door
of commerce, sari thus enable the manufacturers to increase their
trade. All the principal manufacturers export a great portions of
their manufactures, which would only bear the same proportional
value abroad as at home. For instance, if a single bale of cloth
were carried abroad for sale, it would only obtain a similar price to
what it would have realised In the home market. Was it to be sup-
posed that, absolutely of necessity, tire wages of lalsour should al-
ways fall in order to enable the manufacturer to meet the reduced
price of Ills produce? The question wa', how was the manufacturer
to be best enabled to compete with foreign markets at the lowest
price, and how was the labourer to be best provided for at a low
amount of wages. The Hon. Gentleman opposite had admitted
that the present prosperity of the country was considerable, but had
ascribed it to the circulation of money and employment,
of labour, by the impulse which had been given to tine construction or
railroads. There could be no doubt that the employment of capital
and labour in the construction of railroads had done much towards
exciting that feeling of prosperity; but that prosperity was only
temporary, awl there could be rio doubt that when the excitement
in the railway world had subsided, which it would in a very short
time, and when labour and capital were no longer necessary, a con-
siderable reaction would take place, and this temporary prosperity
would subside. The measure of the Right Hon. Baronet would then
show itself as a valuable resource to fill up the void ; and to employ
on the one hand the capital for which there was no longer any call,
and on the other hand the labour for the employment of which there
existed no use. He believed that the colonies would also be bene-
fited by the measure Of the Right Hon. Baronet. The increase in the
commercial intercourse to becarried on between the mother country
and the colonies would be quite sufficient, without having resource to
any system of monopolising protection. With respect to the magni-
ficent colony of India, he should bitterly regret to sec and allow
any monopoly of the sugar interest of that colony, in w
n hich a
enough
large quantity of sugar might be produced. They had seeito
e se its
o
of monopoly in the West Indies, and ha should be
sorryer
constringing effects in the East. As regarded the gentile lquestion,
t
he was of opinion that If there were any single interest in
. country
which was concerned more than any other in the question of the
corn-laws, it was the interest of the manufacturers.—(llear, hear.),
They wished their capital both at home and abroad—the landownera
were always at home.—(Hear, hear.) It was because lee considered
that the corn-laws were injurious to the commercial and
H manufac-
turing interest that he wished to see them abrogated. e believed
that the landed interest would not be at all injured by
the propos
measure, nor did he think that rents would bediminished, agriculture
lessened, or land thrown out of cultivation. The farmers would not have
to enter into competition with France, with Holland, with
to Sphim
ain,
with Italy, or with any other great nation; for
it appeared
that the chief competition would be with a few
mallsm dist
dr eriaded cts in thd
e
north of Germany. Those were the only places e ,an
shall the
markets in English farmer, the cultivator ofnglisen hesromlp,
' whi s
ithetgghes,bieslist
the world, with markets for hiEs gres
cattle, his butter, at the highest prices, with all
those advantages,
be unable to compete with time poor serfs of Russia . It appeared to
him to be most absurd. Tile English. farnyfrreims thni•mo tbhyoulosanegdrimyeilress,
away from the farmer of Poland—separate
by difficult navigation, and by all the disadvantages which would be
et
to
or popula-
tion ii l
four
r thirty
experienced in bringing, down the produce to the port, where it
would then have to be placed on board and exported.ntehThe
tion of Great Britain and Ireland approximated very
millions, and this number was annually increasing
hundred thousand, who had to be fed. He believed that the repeal
of the corn-laws would not produce any very great diminution in the
price of corn. Time advantages which would result would be a more
steady price—a continued impulse given to labour, and a much
sounder and firmer basis for commerce and manufactures in all parts
of the world. These benefits would be the result of the abrogation of
the corn-laws, and not any material diminution in tine price of corn.
He believed that the landed Interest might rest thoroughly satisfied
that their welfare was not in danger. He should like to be informed
how it happened that 1,010 acres of English soil was announced as
valuable as 5,000, or even as 10,000 acres in Poland or Silesia?
Could any other answer be given to this, than that the increased value
was owing to the exuberant wealth of this country? The landed
Interest, when the great change should occur, need have no appre-
Sion. He felt satisfied that Hon. Gentlemen opposite knew that
they were oeposing without hope of suecess.—Loud cries 01
" No, no," from the Protectionists.) He would repeat, he believed
that the Hon. Gentlemen opposite knew that they were opposing
this measure without any hopes of success. Let the landowner lay
outlets capital in improving time land ; or let the tenant, by having a
sufficient holding, have an inducement to convert his labour and ca
pital Inc improving the cultivation of the soil at a sufficient remune-
ration. If these things were to be done, there would be little to rear
for the prosperity of the landed interest.—(Hear.) He had been ali
along a sincere and consistent advocate for the repeal
of the corn laws ; it was, therefore, unnecessary for him
to enter into any personal explanations with regard
to the proposed measure. Ile was glad to see it brought eel:weed so
triumphantly now by those who hitherto had pertinac