The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-28 00:00:00

AND SOUTH SHIELDS PURCHASE).

This Bill, being unopposed, the Committee declared that the pre
amble was proved.
COCKEILTVIOUTH AND WORKINGTON
EXTENSION.
This Bill being also unopposed, the preamble was proved.
The Committee then sepanited.

Room C.

SOUTH-EASTERN BRANCH (MAIDSTONE
TO CHART.)

The Committee re-assembled this morning; the Earl of Devon in
the chair.
Mr. B. Stephenson, the engineer, was called, who confirmed the
statements of Mr. Alexanderrespecting the estimates and gradients on
the line, stating further that in planning this Mid-Kent branch he had
a view to the through traffic to the coast. There is a line already in
working between Tulibridge and Tunbridge Wells, and an Act has this
session been obtained for a line from thence to Hastings. In laying.
out these lines he had always considered Maidstone as a centre of
operations, for that place was Sl situated that lines in all direc-
tions can radiate with great advanta;e to the country.
The Padock Wood Bill had been lost in the House of
Commona this session, so that the communication with Chatham
will not be complete, but that line will be applied for again, and then
the scheme which had been devised would completely supply the whole
of the county of Kent with railway facility. By the formation of this
line the distance between Maidstone and Dover would be reduced
thirteen miles, and the distance between the former place and Chart
would be reduced nearly one-half. Taking Maidstone as a centre, the
passengers from London would be saved twenty miles, and thosefrom
Maidstone would be saved thirteen miles. The district is now
altogether without railway acconmiodation, and, in his opinion, as
an engineer, the line was absolutely essential for the welfare of the
inhabitants. A Bill has been obtained this session for enlarging the
station of Ashford, which it is now intended to use as a
station depot, Just as Swindon is for the Great Western line.
and Wolverton on the Birmingham Railway. As the engineer of the
London and Birmingham line, witness had had peculiar opportuni-
ties of observing the evils of a divided management, especially
at Derby, where there were three different companies using the
same station. The consequence of that fact was that a continual
disunion occurred ; but an amalgamation of the three com-
panies who worked the line between London and Leeds took place,
and the effect had been not only to obtain an harmonious co-opera-
tion in the functionaries of the company, but the expenses of one
of the three parties had entirely disappeared in the cash account,
although the traffic has very largely increased. 'the c*.untry be-
tween London and Maidstone Is certainly very difficult, and good
gradients could not be obtained. A Mid-Kent line was absolutely
necessary for the through traffic front Dover, for the traffic from
Chatham must be very frequent, and would consequently interrupt
the communication with the Continent.
On cross-examination, Mr. Stephenson stated that the line to
Lewisham, the Bill for which was already obtained, deviated from
the Greenwich Railway, and. running through Deptford, would
give accommodation to that place, as well as to seve-
tal others, at present on to Lewisham, where it is about
two miles and a half from the Cron don line. In carrying out the
whole of tits schem i there would be twenty-nine roads crossed in a
level, including four turnpike-roads. The tunnel at Farnborough
would be 2,513 yards long, but the country was difficult, and he
adopted this course as well as that of crcosing the roads
on a level, to save expense, the amount for that purpose being
very serious in a hilly country.
After hearing Lane further evidence, the Committee adjourned.

Room D.

GLASGOW, DITIYIrIiZES,'AND cArziasias.
The Committee met this morning at eleven o'clock, the Earl St.
Germans in the chair, when the examination of witnesses for the
opposition to the Bill was resumed.
Mr. Errington, civil engineer, was called and examined—fie had
been the engineer of the competing Canobie branch of the Caledo-
nian line. He was now the engineer of the Lancaster and Carlisle. He
was therefore well acquainted with the country. He had likewise
surveyed the valley of the Nith. He was well acquainted with the
works on the Caledonian line, and had, within the last few days,
been inquiring into tenders for the bridges on the Caledoni.,n, and
was satisfied that Mr. Collister was correct. He had gone ever the
estimates of Mr. Blyth, and had carefully examined those of Sir.
Collister, and he felt quite satisfied the latter was the lowest
possible price at which the works could be constructed.
Judging from every appearance of what prices would
be for the next few years, he was sure the line would
cost considerably more than even the sum stated by Mr. Collister.
He had made the estimate for the Dumfries and Canobie branches of
the Caledonian scheme that had been submitted to the Commons.
The Dumfries and Gretna line he set down at 338,7511., exclusive of
stations. (The witness here went into the particulars that went to
make up this sum total). Vlore was 41,000 cubic yards f whinstone
rock cutting, which he estimated at 33. 5 .4d. a yard. Thois he thought
little enough, as it was a very difficult and expensive rock to cut.
He recollected a cutting on the Grenock line on which 320 tons of
gunpowder was expended. The reason of this was there was often
considerable labour bestowed on a blast, without producing any great
result or displacement of rock. Ile estimated the permanent way at
5,0001, a mile. With regard to the weight of rails, he did not know
any line that was laying down rails at less than 751bs. a yard. He
knew that the Ayrshire, Edinburgh, and Glasgow liues had taken up
light rails, and were now laying down rails of 751bs. There was net
so much diffaence In the quantity of the works to be con-
structed as in the price of the works, and their nature.
This estimate had been deposited in November last. It was rather
under I 4,000 L a mile. This was much the easiest portion 01 the
Is; itlisdale scheme. The portion from Dunifries to Cumnock would
most a good deal more, there were so many gullies and ravines upon it.
Cross-examined—The average difference in prici of rock cutting
would dep,nd on the proportion of sands one as compared *Ali
whinstone. The lowest price he had known of whinstone cutting on
the Greenock line was 2s. Gd. a yard, the highest was 3s. 6d. The
average, as far as he could recollect, was 3s. This referred to the
Bishoptown Hill cutting. He was quite sure there wire large masses
of whinstone cutting on the Dunitries line.. It might not be precisely,
of the same character as the Bishoptown work, but it seemed
to him quite as difficult as the former. It was,
be believed, slaty grawacke. Mr. Locke and himself were verb
much connected together. especially on railways in the north. lie
gave evidence on the Dundee and Perth. and on that occasion, his
estimate was considerably more than Mr. Miller's. The Bill passed,
and he believed the works had been let for less than the estimate-,
but he was sure they never would be completed for the price.
There would be extras before the line was completed, which would
add materially to the total c- at. lie knew from similar
cases on other lines, that works could not be made at such low raies.
He was not aware that there was an embaniunent 175 feet high,
with a culvert, on the Edinburgh and llawick line of last year.
Ile was not aware that the estimate of the Dumfries line was depo-
sited some time beliare the Caledonian (Dumfries branch), or that
the petition for it was presented sootier. He had gone over the
items that morning, having only arrived in town late last nigit,.
though he had ge gone over Mr. Blyth's estimates about six
weeks ago. Ile could not undertake to say that Mr. Miller was
eonstructing turnpike and occupation bridges on the Kilmarnock line
at less than the prices named in the .Dumfries estimate. Sir.
Miller had had great engineering experience, but he did not think he
had had more than himself (the witness).
Re-examined.—He was at present constructing from 400 to 50
miles of railway in Scotland, so that he had had considerable expe-
rience even of works in Scotland. It was much the wisest policy to
give liberal terms to a contractor for the proper constriction of the
works than screw down the prices, and have-a numbefof petty con-
tractors.

Mr. Locke, civil engineer, examined by Mr. COCRBIIRN —IIe was
engineer of the Cilledonlart line. and perfectly familiar with the
railways in Scotland. He quite agreed that the estimate of the
Caledonian Cod pany for the Dumfries and Gretna branch was
a correct one. He would advise the directors to-morrow to accept
tenders for such works as those named in the 8111 sanctioned by
Parliament. The prices which Mr. Collister had attached to the
various items were lets than those paid on the Caledonian, and ho
thought the latter fair and reasonable, and was prepared to defend
them. He agreed also in the evidence given by Mr. Collister on the
cuttings, bridges, and permanent way. The rock on this line was
similir to that on the Caledonian line. The particular rock which
h ;d been reti;rred to was trap, or grawicke. The same ridge extended
across the Cal,donian line. Re didnut believe the works could be con-
structed for less titan stated by Mr. Collister. Mr. Miller's estimate
for the Dumfries and Gretna portion of the Nithsdale scheme Was
251,0001. • his was 333,7511. He hod originally, at the recommenda-
tion of the Commissioners, given up Armen on the route of the line.
He did to reluctantly, though he still calculated on the Annan traffic
as belonging to the Caledonian, and so did the Commissioners. The
same applied to Dunfr:es. He believed, also, that 48,0101. was as
little as the line could be worked for per annum.
Cross-examined—Lie ' did not know that Mr. Robert Stephenson
or Mr. Bruusl had changed their systems. lie believed Mr. Brunel
let his works by competition, as did Mr. Vignoles and Mr. Hawk-
shaw. The last great work of Mr. Stephenson was not let by com-
petition. The whole estimate of the Caledonian line was 2,000,0001.,
but at that moment he could not say how much it was per mile.
The levels en the route of the Nithside line were very favourable.

The line of railway recommended by the CoMmissioners in the
year 1840 had a gradient of 1 in 113. This was the severest.
The present Caledonian line had a gradient of 1 in 75 for four miles,
and lin 80 for four miles. The severest gradient on the Nithsdale
line was 1 in 150, which was a good gradient for general purposes,
though not for a heavy ascending mineral traffic.
Mr. itontion, assistant to Mr. Locke, deposed that he had sup-
plied the quantities from the sections of the lice to Mr. Collister, and
they were correctly made up.
Cross-exam ned—He had taken what was rock and what was not
from the sections. He could not say who had written the words
on the sections. He believed all the words werr written on at the
time lie made the calculation. With regard to the word " trap," he
believed it was written on the sections at the time he took the quan-
tit!es, but he could not say positively that it was.
Re-examined—All he had to do in the present matter was simply
to take the cuttings and slopes from the sections and calculate ac-
cordingly. He had nothing whatever to do with the marking Of the
rocks, or as to what kind of rock should be marked at particular

places.
Mr. COLLINTER, civil engineer, was recalled and briefly examined,
to the effect that the writing in pencil on the sections, which had
been referred to, was written on them at the time the calculations
-were medal As far as the outline and general character of the line
were concerned, the plans and sections tom which he had calculated
were a verfect copy of those deposited in the Private Bill-office.
Mr. Cnexatiast intimated that this was the evidence he had to
offer on the question of engineering and estimates.
Mr. ANDREWS then said he proposed to recall Mr. Miller. '
Mr. CocKseaN objected, as the case for the promoters was closet,
Mr. ANDREWS said he wished to recall Mr. Miller. to oiler expla-
nations on the points alluded to respecting the price of the works on
the line, and to prove that similar contracts were being. executed at
less prices on other lines. It would be recollected that his Learned
Friend carefully omitted to cross-examine Mr. Miller on those points
when he wits before the Committee.
The CHAIRMAN intimated that they did not think it necessary to
call Mr. Miller.
The room was then cleared for the deliberations of the CoMmittee.
therefore
htwetiriseleii
bye wished
e did th a
theyt
not
After a lbw minutes the parties were called in, when
The GMAIRMAN said the Comnaitinitititediei
igirtt
the
Cockburn
should bt
wellt,r.il
-1
tsohoinultbdril)en
counselrestl;e' fdortotlowneCtsdpeedeocibli
deuce for the estimates of the Nithsdale line had been shaken by the
3itliori tidal:
counter-evidence adduced. The Committee were, therefore, now pre-
pared to hear evidence on the Dumfries and Canobie branches of the
Caledonian Company.
The case on behalf of these branches was then resumed.
Mr. Locke, civil engineer,
examined—Deposed that the Caledo-
nian branch, between Dumfries and Carlisle, was shorter than the
Dumfries scheme. In other. respects it was the saute. He thought
it would be better for Dumfries that two companies should meet
there, rather than being placed entirely under One eotnpany. Re-
specting the Canobie Caledonian branch, which went to Langholme,
It had better gradients for mineral traffic than the Nithsdale branch.
Cross-Examined—The inhabitants of Dumfries, he believed, were
very generally in flvour of the Nithsdale scheme, and also the land-
owners along it. With regard to all traffic passing from Carlisle,
through Dumfries up Nithsdale, there would be as much incon-
venience from the two lines meeting at Duintrio; as at flretna. He
thought his Dumfries line towards Edinburgh was much preferable
to the Nithsdale and Crawick branch.
Re-examined—lle did not think it would be possible to run trains
from Dumfries to Edinburgh by the Crawick branch in connexion
with the Caledonian, and thus there would be a considerable loss of
time. The Caledonian line had a project which would have to some
extent supplied the accommodation sought to be given by the Cray, ick
branch—tile Caledonian Extension. No doubt the Caledonian in
time would have supplied the district with lateral branches.
Mr. Ellington, civil engineer, corroborated the evidence of the
-
respecting
previous witness the branches proposed by the Caledonian
Company, and their superiority to accommodate the southern and
Edinburgh and Mai,
• -,ow traffic, over the Nitlisdale scheme, including
the Crawick branch.
Mr. Brandt, banker of Annan, examined-He was in favour of the
Nithsdale scheme last year, because the Caledonian branch did not
touch Annan. lie thought the proposition of the present year would
accommodate Annan better than the Nithsdale same, in as fax as