The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-22 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 21.

There being only twenty-six Members present at Four
o'clock, the House adjourned till Twelve o'clock to-morrow

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

(YESTERDAY)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
Room A.
CORNWALL.

The members of this Committee met this morning at eleven
o'clock, Viscount Torrington in the chair.
The proceedings commenced to-day by the examination of Mr.
Locke by Mr. CoCEBURN, who, after asking a few engineering ques-
tions, contrasting the difference between the Cornwall Railway and
the Central line, was interrupted by
Mr. Tateox, who objected to any comparison being made between
the Cornwall Railway and the central line, which was not before the
Committee. . .

A very warm discussion then ensued between Mr. Cockburn, Mr.
Talbot, Mr. Rowe, Mr. James, and Mr. Austin ; after which the
Committee decided that the course proposed to be pursued by Mr.
Cockburn in the examination of Mr. Locke, would not be allowed.
The examination of Mr. Locke was then resumed by Mr. Com-
m:um, but was interrupted by the Committee, on the ground that it
was interfering with the decision that the Committee has just laid
down.
Mr. Commix then said that he should reserve such observations
as he might have to make until the other witnesses had been ex-
amined, on account of the Committee deciding in the manner they
had just done, which he thought was incompatible with the usual
practice observed in such cases. He considered that he had a right
to examine with regard to the showing the superiority of the gra-
4ients of the Central line over that of the Cornwall Railway. Mr.
iockburn here left, and •Mr. Locke left the witness box.
Mr. Williams was then called, and examined by Mr. Rows—Was
t magistrate of the county, and an extensive ironfounder. The
ounty would not be well served by the Cornwall line. The mines
would not be accommodated by the proposed line. Many of the
mines had tramways of their own, which communicated with canals
and other important mediums of transit. Meetings had been held in
the greater part of the county. The whole of them had adopted re-
solutions against the Cornwall line. All the landed interest con-
nected with the county were adverse to it. The Cornwall line did
not accommodate the best part of the county, which lay to the north.
The CRAIRMAN then Intimated to Mr. Rowe, that unless be could
finish the examination in the course of a few minutes, it was the:in-
tention to adjourn, in accordance with the notification they gave
yesterday.—The Committee then adjourned until eleven to-morrow.

Room C

LONDON AND BLACXWALX. (WIDENING;
(Olontinued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Locke, the engineer, now the engineer for the line, although
It was constructed under Mr. Stephenson and Mr. Bidder, said he
had laid out the widening. Tie confirmed the evidence with respect to
the compact with the Eastern Counties Company, who agreed to
give up a part of their new line for the sake of the advantages of
getting up to Fenchurch-street.
Two other witnesses were called to confirm this statement.

This closed the case for the promoters, when
Mr. 31E11E1n-rum opened the case on the petition of the East and
West India Company, and on the behalf of that company alleged that
the alteration of the warehouses would be injurious to the company
and cause a great inconvenience to the vessels loading and unloading
in the docks. It was not likely that the Eastern Counties Company
should wish a part of their traffic to go over another and independent
line, and he should therefore treat the presumed agreement as neither
more nor less than a nullity. Then again the introduction of loco-
motive engines into the city. On all the several grounds, therefore,
this line was highly objectionable, and he trusted their Lordships
would leave the Blackwell line to its legitimate objects, those for
which it was especially intended.
Mr. Mosely, superintendent of the traffic department on the
Eastern Counties and North and Eastern line, was called to show
that there was, in fact, no agreement with the Blackwell
Company, although there had been some conversation on
the subject. The average number of passengers carried on the
lines with;which he was connected was 40,000 a week, about
2,000,000 a year, and he did not at all anticipate that half the num-
ber would go over the Blackwell line as was alleged on the other
side. There was now a station at Stratford, which was a great con-
venience to the public. There had formerly been a station at Bow,
but it was disused, and he conceived that there was not any likeli-
hood of the long passengers being inclined to shift from one train to
another for a distance of a mile and a half, when there were omni-
buses going every minute to the Bank.
Mr. Him, cross-examined the witness, when it appeared that he
only came into the service of the Eastern Counties Company last
year, and was in so position to know anything about the agreements
of the company with other parties. (The Counsel here read a por-
tion of the correspondence between Mr. Stephenson and Mr. Locke,
by which the arrangement was agreed upon, in the event of a junc-
tion being formed.)
At the close of this evidence the Committee adjourned till to-
morrow.

Room D.

GLASGOW, Duller:ems, AND CARLISLE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Blythe, civil engineer, examined
.by Mr. ANDREWS—He had
had considerable experience of the laying down and making of rail-
ways. The present line was planned and laid out under his superin-
tendence. It starts from Cumnock, passing along the valley of the
Nith to Dumfries, and from thence past Annan to the Caledonian
line, near to Gretna. The length of the main line was 64 miles 72
chains. The steepest gradient on the main line was 1 in 156,
and the steepest curve was lin a radius of a third of a mile. The
steepest gradient on the branches was one on the Cariobie branch,
which was lin 80. There were no engineering difficulties. The line
was a very large one. They had one tunnel between Sanquhar and
Thornhill 1,500 yards- long, through freestone. The tunnel was 20
feet high and• 26 feet wide. The Crawick branch was 16 miles,
28 chains, and the Canobie branch was 8 miles 34
chains, and the Annan Harbour branch, an extension of the
previous, was 1 mile 16 chains. The whole scheme was nearly 91 miles.
The value of the land was 92,4301. ; and the whole estimate was

1,200,0001. His estimate of iron rails was high, being made in
November last, and he had no doubt it would be got for considerably
less. The portion from Cumnock to Dumfries would cost about
13,000/. a mile, and from Dumfries to the Caledonian a little more
thirn 10,0001. a mile. The line, he believed, was laid out in the best
possible way. He was prepared to give details, If required.
Cross-examined—The main line was nearly the same as originally
laid down. except an alteration near Thornhill, to meet the objection of
the Duke of Buccleuch. The tunnel was occasoned by this; otherwise
they should have had to go through the park. The amount of rock
cutting on the line was 336,000 yards, at 2s. 6d. a yard. The expense
of the tunnel was 52,4301. The witness was here asked a series of
questions respecting the strata at various points along the line, with
the object of eliciting that there was more whimtone and hard rock
cutting than set forth :in the- plans. Witness denied that there
was. There was a considerable amount of whinstone cutting on
the Crawick bran-As. The witness next gave a series of answers
iu reference to the cost of the princiPal bridges on the line He had
caused three borings for the tunnel to be made, and the result in all
cases was sandstone. The estimate was little more than 351. per
yard. The total cost of masonry on the line was 92,1501. The ex-
pense of the permanent way was 5,3701., stations, &c., 50,0001. All
the level crossings had been arranged with the road trustees.
To the CHLISMAN—The cost per mile of the Crawick branch was
12,0001. per mile, and the Cariobie, 11,0001.
Mr. Home, land-valuer, deposed as to having veined the land to
be taken by the line along with Mr. Laurie. The whole value, includ-
ing intersectional damage, was 92,2321.
Cross-examined—He had added 33 per cent on the actual damage
for amenities to landed property. The mere value of land and
damage he set down at 69,0001. He was not aware that 40,0001.
was to be given to an influential landed proprietor for amenities, and
to prevent his opposition.
Mr. M`Naughtes, railway contractor, examined—He had con-
. _

siderable experience in making railways. He had gone over the
estimates, and he was quite willing to make the line at the prices.
Mr. Miller, civil engineer, said he was chief engineer fer this line.
Mr. Blythe laid it out under his directions. He considered the line
was well laid out. He had gone over the estimates carefully, and
was perfectly satisfied of their sufficiency. He was getting works
at present executed at less price than those estimates. The
mineral development of Scotland had followed on the introduc-
tion of railways. This was especially so with regard to 'Ayrshire,
which he considered the most important mineral county in Scot-
land. It was a county that ought to have direct communication
with England, as being ode of the most thriving and populous in
Scotland. The Canobie branch was proposed in order to bring mine-
rals into Annan and Dumfries, and the Crawick branch was to connect
the _valley of the Nith with Edinburgh. He was at present executing
a tunnel at Morsgiel, between Cumnock and Kilmarnock, and it was
under 351. a yard, yet that had a trap dyke running through the
sandstone.
Cross-examined—The original estimate of the Edinburgh and
Glasgow, Was from 900,0001. to 1,000,0001. The cost had been under
1 1,300,0001. The estimate of the Glasgow and Ayr line was esti-
matea at between , 600,0001. and 700,6001. He believed thewhole ex-
pense connected with the line might have been 1,126,0001., but there
had been largoAums , paid for ,Parliamentary, expeuseS,_,_money to
road trustees. and phint, which he had not estimated. He had not
included the Parliamentary expenses in the present Bill; nor plant;
for the Ayrshire Company ware to find thi plant andwork it.
Mr. Coexist:Um-here:read a aerles.ot answers •giver hi, tits-witness
before the Louli' tlommittee last year, to , the effect. that,: comparing
the gradients, curves, See., of the two competing lines, Vie distance
between Glasgow and Carlisle, by the,4ltbadale route, would be. as
shortly accomplished 'as by the Caledonian. Witness,' in answer,
said he still held the same views. Ile did - not, however,
agree with Mr. Vignole's evidence, given' last year, that the leiths-
dale would starve the Caledonian, and that there would not be suf-
ficient traffic to support Mit lines. Besides, in competing with the
Nitlwiale line, besides the difference in length from Carlisle to Glas-
gow, the Caledonian would have the regulation of the through
traffic from the south, by its connexion with the London and Bir-
mingham, the Grand Junction, and the Lancaster and Carlisle; also,
by its own line from Carlisle to Gretna. The .Nithsdale line would,
therefore, have to compete under great disadvantages, and could not
well do so if it attended properly to its local traffic, for which the
line was alone sought.
This was the case for the promoters of the Bill.
The room was then cleared. After a feW minutes the parties were
admitted, when .
The Cutaassattintiniated that the Committee were unanimously
of opinion that there was evidence to show that this district, from
Kilmarnock to
unites
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the Bill than had been elicited in examination the
would agree to thfirireaikilfae'de ,the4t=Vanr4tia.,,. • . • ' y
Mr. COCK BURN said he would be prepared to .show that the pte.
sent line would Oreupetse mettli,4ll9,,ealpdoiptesc A.m.*, Au- h
traffic ; and that if it would take a*sty any considerable portion of
their through traffic, ea he could prove itasomid„ then thatthe Cale-
(lonian could not exist. He would 'flfrthe'r, lifter the' initmatlon of
the Committee, and considering the large interest the Caledonian
had at stake,•submit, in order to protect the thrdugh trallle'of the
Caledonian, that the portion of the present scheme from Dumfries to
Carlisle should be given to the" Caledonian Company, and the other
portion to the present company.
A short discussioa between Mr. Andrews and Mr. Cockburn took
whichng the
trightey stoodo f t the ebelarotrteerthteo
take
ee osurichthaisepouoirsliet
;In
Committee, having no Bill for the portion they'claimed ; the latter
contending that, although they had no Bill, it was perfectly compe-
tent thethfeormposeirtiodni4pianti
for thaCommittee to postpone the portion of the line from Dum-
fries to Carlisle for another year, to allow a Bill to be introduced, and
pass the portion from Cumnoek to Dumfries now.
The room was then cleared for a decision on this point.

On our readmission,
The CIrAtIMAII !titillated that they could not allow the applica-
tion of Counsel on behalf of the Caledonian, as to the postponement
of the junction of • theltne front Dumfries to Gretna, but they were
quite ready to hear any evidence as to the demerits of the Bill—any
defect in the engineering, in the estimates, or in the traMc calcu-
lations.

Mr. Comatrins, as the day waq so advanced, wished the further
consideration of the Bill to be postponed till to-morrow, when he
would be prepared to state the course he intended to take.
This was agreed to, and the Committee adjourned till to-morrow
at eleven o'clock.

Room E.

IMPORTANT DECISION.
A Select Committee on the Shropshire Union Railway and Canal,
(three iiills)—the North Wales, and the Shrewsbury and Hereford-
shire--having I een appointed to meet to-day, and none of the Lords'
Consmi, tee-rooms being available for their use, Room 3.5 (New
Houses), hitherto a Commons' Committee-room, was appropriated by
them, tinder the name of " Room E." Although this Is the next
Room. to " 1)," yet it stands apart from the other Lords' Committee-
room,, a partition having been made across the corridor, to separate
the Lords' from the Commons' Committee-rooms, and not having
yet been removed.

Their Lordships were not in attendance until about half-past
twelve o'clock ; there were then present Lord Redesdale (chairman),
the Duke of Cambridge, the Earl Cadogan, and another Peer.
The CHAIRMAN announced that the Duke of Beaufort, who was
one of the members appointed on the Committee, being unable to
attend on account of illness, leave had been obtained to sit with-
out his Lordship, and, if the parties were willing, the business should
proceed.—This WAS agreed to.

There were several petitions against each Bill, but no appearance
was made for any. It was explained by the several counsel that all
opposition had been removed, except in the case of the North Wales
Railway. There was one petition against this Bill, but it was ex-
pected that the opposition would be remove,: by negotiations which
were now pending.

It was then agreed that the Committee should first take the ease
of the

SHREWSBURY AND HEREFORDSHIRE.
Mr. Austin, Mr. Talbot, and Mr. Wells, appeared for the promoters.
Mr. Ausrur opened the case shortly, and proceeded to tall wit-
nesses fbr the line.