The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-01 00:00:00

EVENING, JULY I, lO4B

might be had without any increase of protection.—
(Hear) It was the duty of Government to stimulate
consumption, not increase protection.—(Hear.) The
Noble Lord (J. Russell) said he looked to increased con-
sumption for the prosperity of the colonies ; and there
could be no doubt if the Noble Lord could steer the co-
lonies through the present storm, and facilitate consump-
tion here, he would be conferring a great benefit both
on the grower of sugar and the consumer. Those who
had spoken in favour of the present measure had esti-
mated the loss that would result to the revenue at from
10,0001. to 40,000/. He hoped the Hon. Member for
Westbury would, in the course of the present debate,
explain the grounds of that calculation.. If there
should be an enormous increase of consumption it was
probable that the loss would not exceed that amount ;
but if, as the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wilson) had said, the
highest duty always regulated the price, and price regu-
lated the consumption, there would be no increased con-
sumption, except such as arose from increased population
—for some years to come. He would assume the quan-
tity of sugar returned for home consumption during
those years at 240.000 tons of colonial and 50,000 tons
of foreign; and taking the highest duty under the Bill of
1846, and comparing it with the highest duty under the
Bill of 1848, he found that the loss on the first year's
revenue would be 165,0001.; on the second, 405,00 a; on
the third, 645,000/.; on the fourth, 885,000/.; and on the '
fifth, 935,0001. These were very different amounts from
10,000/. or 40,000/., as stated by the Noble Lord and the
Hun. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) He thought the Noble
Lord must have founded his calculation on the supposi-
tion that the fall of duty was on the smaller quantity, and
not on the larger; whereas the great tall of duty was on
the colonial sugar, which was the larger quantity, the
loss upon which would commence from July in the pre-
sent year. The total loss he estimated at upwa-rds of
3,000,000/., against which any revenue arising,
from increased consumption, consequent on in-
creased population, or greater power to consume
(which he hoped there would be), was not to be set,
inasmuch as that revenue would be obtained inde-
pendent of this Bill, and without this loss.—(Hear.)
And certainly, for a Chancellor of the Exchequer who
was at his wits' end for money—who had to bring for-
ward another budget before the session closed—(Hear,
hear)—aud to state in what way—whether by imposing
an additional tax on real property or otherwise—he will
raise the money necessary for supplying the deficiency
in the revenue and carrying on the public service ; for
a Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Government to
which he belonged under such circumstances to attempt
to tinker a measure passed only in 1846, and which had
already produced such admirable results to the com-
merce and to the revenue of the country, was a speci-
men of statesmanship he shonid have thought much too
extraordinary and absurd for the middle of the nine-
teenth century.—(Hear and a laugh.) But had the
Chancellor of the Exchequer considered that he was
not now legislating on a matter of revenue, but for pro•
tection to the West India body. And protection being the
issue, he protested against the increase o: duties the resolu-
tion proposed, and contended that it was a most un-
statesmanlike proceeding, and at :the same time most
unjust to those who were engaged in the sugar trade.
He had letters from a gentleman stating that, trusting:to
the Act of 1846, and to the declaration of the Govern-
ment
in May last that the duty of 18s. 6d. on foreign
sugar would commence from the sth of July, orders had
been sent out for sixty or eighty cargoes, and in some
eases vessels had been sent out in ballast to bring back
foreign sugar. He asked, was it consistent with the
dignly of the Government of this great country thus to
break faith, and probably to inflict ruin on those who
had:trusted to their declarations?—( , fear.) Never before
had Parliament been called upon to take a step so com-
pletely in the dark, and so contrary to all experience, as
on this occasion. The Noble Lord had nb reason to believe
now, any more than he had on the 30th of May, that the
measure would benefit the \Vest Indian body. The
Hon. Member for Westbury—whom he had hitherto
looked up to as an authority, and at whose feet he had sat
as his Gamaliel—(A laugh)—but who now, contrary to
all his former opinions, advocated this measure—he was
sure had no faith in it.—(Hear, hear.) No Member on
the Treasury bench really believed that it would do good
to the West Indies, while they must be convinced that it.
could do no good to the consumer or the revenue.—(Hear.)
On the other side of the House, and amongst the repre-
sentatives of the West India interest, not one had spoken
in favour of the measure; nor were there scarcely two
opinions agreed as to the nature of the relief wlich
the West India colonies really required; and the Right
Honourable Baronet the Member fur Tamworth had dis-
tinctly given it as his conviction that protection would
be injurious rather than advantageous to them, and, that
being his view, he took it that the Right Hon. Baronet
would vote with him against the Government proposal.
—(Hear, and a laugh.) The Noble Lord had said
that all that was required was capital: but with this
system of legislation—a fiscal measure in 1846, another
in 1848, and another which would be clamoured for three
months hence—what encouragement was there for the
investment of capital? If there was one thing which
capital shunned more than another, it was uncertainty.
The Noble Lord had told them that immigration had
failed; yet he now proposed a grant of 500,000/. to pro-
mote immigration. Again, the Noble Lord said that a
103. protection would raise the wages of labour and in-
crease the evil now complained of; but if 10s, would do
it, surely 7s. would do it to a corresponding degree.—
(Hear, hear.) Why did not the Noble Lord leave
the Protectionists to fight out their battle on the
question of protection? It' the Noble Lord was still a
free- trader, if he still professed the doctrines of Adam
Smith, and the published doctrines of the Hon. Member
for Westbury—(Hear, hear)—why did he not adhere to
them? He knew not on which side to look for the most
conclusive arguments against the Government measure.
It was repudiated by those for whose benefit it was
brought forward; all parties condemned it, and there
were hardly two opinions agreed on the question it was
brought forward to meet. He objected to the measure
as being a departure from the settlement of 1846, arid
as being calculated to re-open other questions which
were determined at that time.—(hear.) Let the prin-
ciple of free trade be sound or not, it was adopted in
1846 as to sugar, corn, and other articles, and the de-
cision then come to was in accordance with the opinion
of the vast majority of the people of this country. Let
that principle have that fair trial which even its oppo-
nents admitted it ought to have.—(Hear.) The Noble
Lord was now about to disturb that principle, as re-
garded sugar, and before long he might be called upon
to re-open it to another article.—(" Hear, hear," from
Mr. Cayley.) The Honourable Member for the North
Riding of Yorkshire cheered when he (Mr. Bright) said
that corn would be the next article on which they would
be called on to retrace their steps. He hoped, however,
the Noble Lurd would be more firm with regard to corn
than he was with regard to sugar—if he was not, he
doubted whether he would escape even by a majority of
15.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The Noble Lord was
without blame to himself at the head of a Government
whch was in an unfortunate position in regard to finance,
and it was his duty to consider how he would make up
the present deficiency before he increased it. That he
had done that which would sacrifice revenue, be injurious
to the sugar consumer of this country—that which the
West Indians themselves repudiated, and which the
Committee of the House did not recommend—that which
would unsettle a great settlement, was, he thought,
matter of blame to the Noble Lord and his Government.
Standing by the Bill-of 1846, they might hare defied
any combination of mistaken philanthropy on the one
side, and of monopoly on the other. As it was, they
had given to their opponents an advantage they would
not recover; and as he thought the measure alike per-
nicious to this country and the West Indies, he would
move as an amendment, " Thar it was not desirable to
make any alteration in the sugar duties of 1846."
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. BERKELEY said that in rising to oppose
the amendment of the Honourable Member for Man-
chester, he must say a few words in defence of the
planters of the West Indies, whose character had been
arraigned by that Honourable Member. He thought
this attack was most unfair. The Hon. Member for
Manchester was in the habit of running a tilt at almost
every measure, whether he understood its intricacies or
not. In the course of a conversation which they had
had in Committee, (as was understood) that Hon.
Gentleman had told Inca (Mr. G. Berkeley) that when
he was made a Legis!alor there was a very good game-
keeper spoilt.—(Great laughter.) He (Mr. G. Ber-
keley) rejoined—" Do you believe everything that the
Hon. Member for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden) says?"
He said, " I do most implicitly." " Will you," he (Mr.
Berkeley) asked, " pin your faith to any opinion which
that Hon. Member entertains ?" The reply was, " I
will." "Then," said he (Mr. Berkeley) "that Hon. Friend
of yours tells me that so pugnacious are your qualities,
that he has told you that if you were not a Quaker
you would be a prise-fighter."—(Shouts of laughter.)
He would now state to the House his own position as a
West India proprietor. He possessed six estates in
British Guiana, and from the time of negro emancipa-
tion up to that hour he had had no return. They
were, unfortunately, under the operation of the Dutch
law. If he neglected to keep in repair a road or bridge,
it was within the province of the local government to do
what was required, and to sell a property which had
originally cost 100,000/. for the sum of 101., if that were
the amount expended. In Guiana it was totally impos-
sible to compel the labourer to work ; he went either
to the bush or to an abandoned estate, and there was no
police to prevent him from landing and stealing the few
plantings which were raised. He believed that, without
protection, 500,000/. would be like money thrown into
the sea. As regarded the compensation granted for eman-
cipation, he would ask whether that could be adequate,
when having received 14,000/. as his share, he had not
since received a fraction of his former income?—( Hear.)
There was no person in so difficult and so hard a posi-
tion. He would read to the House a letter which he had
received from his agent in British Guiana, dated last
May. It was in answer to a letter of his own, wherein
he asked him about the condition of his estate. He said,
" Sir,—l am in receipt of your favour of the 27th of
February, and I am sorry I am not able to realise your
wishes for better news. Truly has Mr. Barkly described
the state of your once splendid property as being in a
dreadfully neglected stata. The like description would
answer fully one-half of the colony; and actually in the
immediate neighbourhooit of George Town itself, aban-
doned estates are fast becoming general, cultivated ones
being rapidly given up. The colony is certainly in a
weak condition, so that many other properties must be
added to the list wherein your name occupies so promi-
nent a place—of once wealthy estates ruined by crude
legislation." The Hon. Member for Manchester had
stated that the planter had never been satisfied since he
came to the House. Upon his word, he thought they
had very little reason to be satisfied, still less to be sa-
tisfied with him now; for at the moment when all in-
terests were deeply involved, when they were endea-
vouring to raise themselves out of the fatal slip—at the
time the House endeavoured to afford some remedy—
the Hon. Member jumped up, and endeavoured to cut
across, and to prevent any probability of the good being
carried out. They were not allowed to know what he

was likely to do; they were told that what was pro-
posed could not do giod. It was said that Providence
was against the planters, by another, that they were
ruble l by their own extravagance. He was not aware
of any paricular extravagance which had brought dis-
tress on a single person with whom he was acquainted.
He was thoroughly aware of the deep distress, but was
not aware that the parties could not have retrieved them-
selves under present circumstances. He was confident
that the emancipation which had taken place had been
the foundation of their ruin. lion. Members had stated
that the planters opposed immigration, because the im
migrants were contaminated by association; as if it
was by their own neglect that the planters lost their ser-
vices. What happened when he attempted to make the
last crop of sugar? Labourers, not wanting work,came
to his attorney and said, " when the cane is ripe, if you
don't give something enormous we will not get in the
crop." He ventured to make the advance. Then they
came and said, " if you don't give another bonus you
may make the sugar yourself." Of course he could not
comply with that, and the whole pr iperty was ruined.
He asked, not only for protection, but for more stringent
laws against vagrants than they had at present. He
asked the House, not only for himself, but for tee rest
of the proprietors, just once only to try full and free
immigration. No place was so fit to try the experi-
ment as the Mauritius or Berhice, as the nearest Bri-
tish port to the African free coast. They could have got
the free immigration of Kroomen if every stumbling
block had not been thrown in the way. Instead
of letting them come the shortest way possible, they
insisted they should go to Sierra Leone, and embark
thence; and by such an act entailed a long sea voyage.
When they came to sea, they had to go a voyage again,
and then travel through tribes hostile to them, who
robbed them of all the savings they had. He had pressed
upon the Noble Lord long ago, that in his own colony
the chief thing they wanted was immigration. Now, if
they gave immigration, and did not accompany it with
a greater boon, they did not effect one atom of good.
The Hon. Member for Tamworth entertained an opinion
that slavery would be put down by the increase of labour.
What were they to do during the time that was taking
place? During the time they were getting labour to-
gether and making it available, the whole colonies would
be lost, lie trusted the House would reject the measure
of the Hon. Member for Manchester, and that the next
packet which went to these unfortunate colonies would
be the bearer of better news than the last. He was cer-
tain that they needed the most ample protection.
Mr. BAGSHA WE also opposed the amendment.
When the question before the House should be disposed
of, it was his intention to submit a proposition which
would not be, like all those yet made, transitory in its
effect, but permanent. His motion would be that a per-
petual duty of ss. per cwt. be put on all foreign sugars,
without distinction, imported into this country. No one
would then complain of being taken by surprise; and it
the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn would give his
support to that proposition, it would redound to his
eternal honour.—(Laughter.)
Mr. TOLLEMACIIE having made some explana-
tions of the evidence he gave before the Committee,
said that he conceived that excessive protection would
be not only unjust to the people of this
country by making prices high, but injurious to
every class connected with the %Vest Indies. At
the same time, as free labour never could compete with
slave labour, some protection was necessary. He pos-
sessed five estates in one of those islands. He had suc-
ceeded in reducing considerably the cost of production,
and he belived it would be reduced still further.—(Hear,
hear.) He was prepared to run some risk, and even to
sustain a loss, rather than desert the people living on
those estates, which had been in the possession of his
family for centuries.—(Hear, hear.) In some instances
a protection of 7s. would be sufficient, but, taking the
1V est Indies as a whole, he thought it should be 10s.
for a certain time, say two years, then Bs., and then 6e.,
where it should remain as long as slave labour existed.
He had felt it his duty to vote for the amendment of
the Hon. Member for Droitwich, which he did with re-
gret, and he had now only to hope that the Government
would reconsider the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he concurred in a great part of the speech and in
most of the principles uttered by the Hon. Member for
Manchester: but circumstances sometimes rendered ne-
cessary the modification of a principle which he thought
might be done without any sacrifice or dereliction of it.
In this case they were passing from protection to free
trade, and they proposed a temporary compromise be-
tween them, softening the evils which would arise from
an abrupt change. The Hon. Gentleman said, and
truly, that ho (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) de-
clared last February that the Bill of 1846 ought not
to be departed from. But he should be ut-
terly deaf to all information if he maintained
that opinion merely for consistency sake, and
in the face of the evidence of the Committee and the
change of circumstances that had since taken place.
Under those circumstances he considered that the Go-
vernment were bound to make an attempt to check the
destruction of property which was threatened from utter
want of credit. If they gave protection they would
have interfered with that process which was now going
on in the West Indies for reducing the cost of produc-
tion by reducing the price of wages; and, in departing
from the Bill of 1846, the Government must have been
influenced by very strong reasons—it being a Bill
which the Hon. Gentleman admitted to have been
most successful as regarded the revenue and the con-
sumer, and of which the Government might therefore be
naturally proud. Now, it was of the first importance to
know how the present proposition of the Government
would affect the revenue. It would doubtless create
risk of loss, but he did not think of much loss. lie
could not admit that it would even be as great, nor any-
thing like as great, as the loss that would be sustained
by the 10s. differential duty suggested by the Noble Lord
the Member for Lynn. The proposal of the Govern-
ment would give a first loss of 240,0001, but after-
wards it would be made up by increased consumption,
while that of the Noble Lord would cause a loss of
960,0001. The first 103 S under the Government propo-
sition would arise from the reduction of colonial duty
from 14s. to 135., and, ho did not look to any increased
consumption to make good that loss in the first year.
The question then was what probable increased consump-
tion would there be in the course of the next year, and
he estimated it at from 15,000 to 20,000 tons. The year
1847 was clearly exceptional, owing to the imports being
greatly stimulated by the admission of sugar in distil-
leries. It was probable the consumption of next year
would be 309,000 or 310,000 tons. The consumption
had increased from 193,000 tons in :1842, to 288,900 in
1847, being about 50 per cent.; and in the last four
years the sugar imported into Jreland had increased
from 362,000 to about 500,000 cwt., not-
withstanding the distress which had prevailed
in that country. Taking the consumption at
225,000 tons of colonial, and 85,000 of foreign sugar,
there would thence arise a revenue of 4,625,0001., being
an increase of 284,000/. It was true the amount of
revenue would depend on the proportionate increase of
toreign and colonial sugar; if the increase were in the
proportion of 15,000 tons foreign to 5,000 tons colonial,
there would be a loss of revenue of 55,000/. But the
probability was that it would not exceed 45,000/.; per-
haps there would be no loss at all. This referred to the
first year only; in future years he confidently looked for
an increase ; for as the increasing reduction of duty on
foreign sugars would stimulate the consumption, an in-
creased revenue would be the consequence. As much
reference had been made to the prospects of the revenue,
and the probability of a loss, he thought it his duty,
before asking the House to consent to a resolution
which might involve some loss, to give a general view of
how the Government anticipated that that would be met.
Already a deficiency of about 2,000,000/. had been
estimated on the current year ; the House had refused
to entertain a proposition for making up that deficiency
by an increase of taxation ; and the matter had ever
since occupied the serious attention of the Government.
So far, the revenue of the current year had produced
quite as much as could have been anticipated. In spite
of the calamities of last year, so sound was the system
of our finances, that the income of the year 1847-48 was
actually higher than that of 1845.46, after the great re-
ductions in duty which had been made by the late Go-
vernment. Of course it was impossible to compare the
last year with any year preceding 1845-6, the circum-
stances and the amount of taxation being so different.
The expenditure proposed was far below that of the last
or the preceding
.year. Two Committees had been ap-
pointed to investigate this subject ; but neither he nor
any Member of the Government supposed that they
thereby shifted the responsibility from their
own shoulders. He
.lead stated at the time
that he conceived it would be impossible
to make any large reduction either in
the amount of the regular expenditure, or in the outlay
for works in progress. The House was already in pos-
session of the amount of reduction which they had been
able to effect in the miscellaneous estimates. It had
been estimated that the probable charge would be
4,006,0001.; the items laid on the table amounted to
3,777,0001.; being a reduction of 230,000/. With regard
to the army, the efficiency of the service was so im-
portant a consideration at this moment, that it was im-
possible to make any reduction in those estimates. The
House had decided by a large majority that it was not
possible to effect any such reduction. The Government
had abandoned the intention of proposing an ad-
ditional vote for the militia, whereby an outlay of
150,0001. would be avoided. He had gone through
the navy and ordnance estimates with the First Lord
of the Admiralty, and they had satisfied themselves
that, without in any degree impairing the efficiency
of these services, a reduction on the year of 300,0001.
' might easily be effected.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
His Hon. Friend the Secretary to the Admiralty had
stated that a much larger reduction might be expected
in the ensuing year; but with the existing contracts it
was impossible to carry the reduction in the present year
beyond what he had stated. The result of this was to
reduce the whole expenditure by 685,000/. To effect
this it might be necessary in some cases to postpone
works which, under other circumstances, it might have
been desirable to accomplish in the present year. He
was in hopes that further reductions might be effected
within the year; but lie thought it right to state only
those of which he was confident. He was anxious to
have postponed his statement to a later period of the
session, when he might have been in a condition to form
a more correct judgment as to the probable amount which
the revenue would yield. On this head, however, he
would afford some information. Owing mainly to the
exceeding fine crop of barley of last year, the quality of
which was better almost than was ever known, malting
had been carried on to a much greater extent during
the year, and the consequent increase in the excise duties
amounted to a very considerable sum.—(Hear, hear.)
On the other hand, other sources of revenue were not
quite so productive as he had anticipated; but, upon the
whole, after consulting with the chairman of the revenue
board, he found himself warranted in anticipating an in-
crease of revenue beyond what he had stated in February,
of 350,000/. (Hear, hear.) He left out of consideration
all receipts, from corn; it was utterly impossible to say

what they might be; but it would be so much in addi-
tion to what he had stated. He also anticipated reli4
from another source—the appropriations in aid, which
had usually been applied only to the service of the year
succeeding that in which they aross. They had hitherto
been prevented from applying these sums in the current
year, by the supposition that an Act of Parliament would
be necessary for the purpose; but it had turned out that
the Act which had rendered their application in the cur-
rent year impossible, had been indirectly repoa!ed some
years ago; and there was therefore no longer any ob-
stacle. He had accordingly directed that the sums pro-
duced by the sales of old stores and other matters, well
known as " appropriations in aid," should be paid
directly into the exchequer; and the receipt from that
s'airce in the present .year would be applicable to the
service of the present year. Its average produce was
about half a million; last year it was only 430,0001.
That, of course, was only a temporary source of in-
come; but it might be clearly made applicable to the
service of the present year. The result was, a diminu-
don of the probable excess of expenditure over income
by 1,535,000!.; and therefore, instead of that excess
being two millions, it would he under half a million.—
(Hear, hear.) He had thought it right that the House
should be in possession of this information, for he was
aware that out of the House, as well as in it,
great anxiety had been felt on the supposi-
tion that there would be a deficiency on the
year's revenue of two millions. At a later period it
might ba his duty to recur to this subject ; but he had
felt that he could not ask the House to consent to the
resolutions he had proposed without putting them in
possession of the statement he had now made, and
which he did with great pleasure, inasmuch as the pros-
pect was certainly much more promising than many
Hon. Gentlemen might suppose.

Mr. HASTIE said the Hon. Member for Manchester
had forgotten to state that the cotton manufacturers of
Manchester and Glasgow had' for a series of years en-
joyed a protection of 100 per cent. against the manufac-
turers of India, until they were enabled to get cheap
cotton from America. At one period cotton manufac-
tures to the amount of two millions sterling sere ex.
ported from India, giving employment to vast numbers
of individuals ; but this trade had been destroyed by the
large protection given to our home manufactures. That
protection had continued, in a modified form, down to
1844 ; and even now there was a heavy duty on some
of the productions of India. If the House looked at
the returns of exports from Great Britain during the
last seven years they might form some idea of the im-
portance of our colonies. We had sent to the
West Indies every year no less than 2,700,0001. worth
of goods, and at least one-half of that export must be ex-
pected to cease if we withdrew protection. It was
curious fact that these exports had increased since the
Emancipation Act, although the produce of the %Vest
Indies had decreased. He attributed this to the effect of
the labourer being paid wages, and the social condition
of the negro having consequently improved. Ile felt
thoroughly convinced in his own mind vat the proposi-
sition of her Majesty's Government would do much to
relieve the planter and-to increase our exports by raising
stilt more the condition of the negro. He should, there-
fore, give it his support.

Mr. CARDWELL came down to-night curious to see
how the Chancellor of the Exchequer would defend him-
self against the attack of his Hon. Friend the Member
for Manchester. The Right Hon. Gentleman had scarcely
gratified his curiosity. But he had made a speech infi-
nitely more interesting than any Parliamentary repartee
into which he might have entered. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had given them a second budget—(Laughter)
—yes, but he had admitted frankly that his second
budget was not satisfactory, and he had very consider-
ately promised them a third. He thought they had great
cause to congratulate themselves on the reluctance to re-
place the alleged two millions by increased taxation at a
time when it would have been peculiarly heavy to bear,
for without any exertion ou their part no less than
1,500,000/. of the amount had disappeared.—(Cheers.)
He aid not know that they had very much otherwise to
congratulate themselves upon in the budget now before
them. The miscellaneous estimates appeared to be as
high as they ever were in previous years, though they
were much below the amount originally proposed this
year. Then, as to the appropriations in aid—it did not
certainly api ear to him that the new arrangement pro-
posed would prove a saving, for it was only, in point of
fact, taking money out of one column and putting it
into another. Neither did it appear to him that
they had much subject for consolation in the arrange-
ment proposed with regard to these sugar duties.
The Noble Lord, the first Minister, told them last
night that the first year's loss would not be above
10.000/. In the last year we consumed 288,000 tons
of sugar, of which 24,000 was British plantation.
Upon each of these tons there was to be a diminu-
tion of 1/. But was there to be no loss on the foreign
sugar ? If their measure did anything at all, surely it
would displace a portion of the foreign sugar. Each
ton so displaced would involve a loss of 71. per ton, and
if they took a quarter only of the 48,000, they would
have a loss of nearly 80,0001. to be added to the 240,0001.
before computed. There was, be it recollected, nothing
in the consumption to compensate for this loss. Ia the
second year the loss would be nearly double. The
Right Hon. Gentleman appeared to found a portion of
his anticipations of increased revenue upon the large
quantity of barley to be converted into malt, but though
this might benefit the farmer and the excise, it was not
shown how it would benefit the customs, which branch of
the revenue had more immediate relation to the subject
under discussion. It was said by the Hon. Member for
Manchester and others that the Act of 1846 had not
proved to have aggravated the slave trade, whereas
all the evidence went directly and distinctly to establish
that it had been productive of this effect. Government
officers themselves had shown that the almost immediate
consequence of the Act of 1846 had been to raise the
money value of slaves 15 per cent. in Cuba ; it was
stated that the passing of that measure had been cele-
brated as a sort of jubilee; from Jamaica the Govern
ment Commissioners reported the opinion that if tree-
trade principles were at once applied to slave-labour
produce, more crimes would be committed in the slave
trade, and more oppressions exercised upon the slaves,
than had ever before been heard of. Captain Burgess
stated, upon the information of various Spanish
and Portuguese slave dealers, that the increase
of late in the slave trade had been solely occa-
sioned by the freer introduction into England of slave-
grown sugar, while the Hon. Member for Cheshire had
shown that from the same cause, slavery, which had
been altogether dying away in Cuba, had resumed new
life there.—(Hear, hear.) He could have no hesitation
in recording his vote against the motion of the Hon.
Member for Manchester. He admitted that protection
was.in itself and in its nature an unsatisfactory remedy,
but he felt, at the same time, that we could not substi.,
tute free labour for slave labuur in our West India colo-
nies without affording those colonies something in the
character of temporary protection. Without this aid it
would be impossible for the planters to complete the
glorious task which, at so great a sacrifice, we had corn-
menced.—(Elear, hear.)
Lord Nuaeser and Mr. WILSON rose at the same time
to address the Committee. There were general cries for
the Noble Lord, but Mr. Wi:son remaining on his lega
also, utter confusion prevailed throughout the House for
full five minutes. At length

Mr. BERNAL, vklio had been ineffectually demand-
ing order, said, I must put it to the Committee—does
the Committee wish me to leave this chair? If so, I
will leave it at once; but so long as I have the honour
to fill it—(Hear, hear)—l will to the utmost of my
power maintain order.—(Hear, hear.) I call upon. Mr.
Wilson.

Mr. WILSON said he was sure the Committee would
give him au impartial hearing, whatever might be their
opinions upon the mode in wnich the commerce of the
country should be conducted. He thought that the
evidence taken before the Committee showed that there
were exceptionable considerations from applying to these
colonies the general principle which he entertained with
regard to commercial policy, and he thought it would be
unwise to apply strictly to the West Indies the pro-
visions of the Act of 1846. In the resolutions which
he proposed to the Committee, he recognised
the distress which existed in these colonies, and
the principle of affording them relief. He thought,
then, that the case required immediate consideration,
and that the relief should be instantaneous, and effected
with the least possible loss to the revenue. By the plan
now proposed they would reduce the duty by Is. 6d. per
cwt. every year, upon the principle of the Act of 1846.
This with the least possible loss to the revenue and to
the commerce, would give relief to the colonists. These
were three great important objects to attain. They
should take the measure as a whole in affording perma-
nent relief to the West Indies with the least loss to this
country. If in the first years the commerce would not
be materially injured, and in the latter years benefited,
it may be assumed that on the whole the consumer
would be benefited by the measure of the Government,
which was best calculated to effect the three objects of
protecting the revenue, the commerce, and the colonist.
The Honourable Member sat down amid loud cries of
" Divide."

Lord NUGENT said that the statements of the Noble
Lord (J. Russell), and the arguments urged in support
of his propositions, bad only confirmed him in his views
of the Act of 1846; and he was therefore resolved to
vote against the amendment of the Hon. Member for
Manchester. He should also give his cordial vote, in all
its stages, against what he considered to be a feeble, a
faithless, and, in its tendency, a wicked measure. Eng-
land had a sacred duty to perform—which was to re-
nounce all commerce and communion with the men
whose pursuits were those of piracy and murder, and
whose merchandise was produced by the most cruel and
barbarous proceedings. He did not think that the prin-
ciples of free trade, rightly understood, had anything to
do with the question before the House. He had yet to
learn that it was a part of the principle of free trade to
traffic with the dealers in stolen property. If it was,
why did they abolish the slave trade ? But it was
said that as they took other produce the labour
of slaves, they were justified also in taking the sugar
produced by them. They were obliged to take those
other articles from necessity. But moreover, it was no
valid argument because they took some articles that they
should also take sugar which was produced by the most
severe labour.—(hear, hear.) He was afraid that a
compulsory system of emigration would entirely destroy
all the efforts they had hitherto made to put down the
slave trade. These were the reasons which induced him
to give a Protectionist vote whilst he admitted, as much
as any man, the universality of the principle of free
trade. He was not for commercial protection, but he
was for moral protection.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MOWATT moved ,that the Chairman do report
progress and ask leave to sit again on Monday.
Lord J. RUSSELL begged of Hon. Gentlemen to
recollect the position in which the questiou stood. On
the sth of July there would be a further alteration of
the sugar duties under the Act of 1846, so that it was
necessaay they should come to a speedy decision. It
the Hon. Gentleman persisted in his motion he hoped

London: Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, at
No. 112, Strand, Printer, at 2-71. Sun Office, No. 112,
Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of
Middlesex, Saturdig, July 1, 1848.