The Sun.
London, England, 1870-04-13 00:00:00

THE LICENSING SYSTEM.

On the motion of Mr. GLADSTONE, that the House at
its rising adjourn until Monday, the 25th of April,
Sir WILFRID LAwsoN rose to call attention to the
serious public injury caused by the delay in introducing
the Government Licensing Bill, and to the imperative
necessity for dealing with the question during the present
session. He thought the greatest injury was being done
by the Government delaying the announcement of their
policy on a subject which was attracting the utmost
attention in most parts of the country, and which inter-
fered with the prosperity, the comfort, and he might say
the lives of the people. Fourteen years ago a committee
sat on the subject, and recommended early legislation,
yet time went on, and nothing was done. It
however was attempted by private members to
deal with the matter, and he had himself
twice introduced bills, the last of which was on the
12th of May, last year. The Home Secretary opposed
that bill, and stated that the Government had a bill
virtually ready, but they had delayed introducing the
measure under the impression that the House was not
prepared to take up the matter. He sketched out the
policy,"and then said that next session the Government
intended to deal with the subject in an efficient manner.
That declaration doubtless swelled the majority against his
(Sir W. Lawson's) bill, but notwithstanding the promised
bill had not yet been introduced by the Government.
He had been accused of being an enemy of the trade, but
he was an enemy of no honest trade, and he had never
condemned those who carried on a business for which they
had the sanction of law. He thought the trade
ought to be dealt with fairly, and that the bill
ought not to be kept dangling over their heads.
He could not admit that there was a subject more impor-
tant than that which was calculated to check pauperism
and crime, and as the Government had admitted the evil
it was their duty to deal with the matter, and that with
no niggard hand. It might be said that the Government
had been already overdone with work. He sympathised
with Plena, but it was in hiQuinisai Led igmcatitut Out

a measure whose object was to check poverty and
crime should not be laid easily aside. It was true the
Government had brought in a Peace Preservation Bill for
Ireland, but he thought a bill of the same description
was most urgently required for England. He was quite
aware that a great many important measures now stood
for decision, but he thought the most important—if the
Government had a good bill calculated to deal with one
of the greatest evils of the day—it was their
duty to bring it in, and if it was approved of there was a
support out of that House which he would receive, and
which would enable him triumphantly to carry it through
with success.
Sir S. IBBETSON seconded the motion. He said he had
tried to deal with the matter in a limited extent, and he
felt that the bill he had introduced last year had done a
great deal of good, as it had prepared the way for a larger
and more adequate measure.
Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said. he did not wish to under-
rate the ample exertions of the hon. baronet, the member
for Carlisle. He had done a great deal of good, but he
(Mr. Osborne) was not inclined to find fault with the
Government for not bringing in the licensing bill. He
did not see there would be any earthly use in doing so, to
let it be a dead letter on the table to be shot at by every i
member who felt so disposed. He thought the Govern-
ment would be unwise to bring in the bill until they saw a
fair oppoAnnity of dealing with it and successfully
carrying- it, and, he loped thtr-atine- Secretary would
not add to the block of business, and put another omni-
bus in the way. The fact was the Government was
striving too much, and with respect to the matters in that
House, he must say there was a thirst for information,
that appeared to him almost wonderful. Instead of two
or three questions, as was formerly the case, they
now had a string of them, upwards of twenty
long ; and no subject was omitted, for they had even
thought that policemen's hats were not beneath attention.
They lost hour by hour with useless talk, and it appeared
now almost an impossibility to get into Committee of
Supply. The hon. member for Peterborough was maimly
responsible for that, as he appeared indefatigable and
curious in his desire to obtain information. The
Government had brought in the Land Bill ; that,
he thought, would have been quite sufficient for a
session ; but in addition to that they had got an Educa-
tion Bill and then the Ballot, and now it was asked to
give them what was called the Licensing Bill, but which
was the Permissive Bill in disguise. He was quite sure
that the Government would not be able to accomplish the
first three bills, and he fully expected in a short time to
see a murder of the innocents this year that would exceed
in extent all those that had ever taken place for
many years—(hear, hear). If the Government got through
the Land Bill, it would be as much as he expected, be-
cause he began to see signs for the erection of tombstones
over the Education Bill and the Ballot, and for his own
part he should not object to see them both decently inter-
red for the present year. The Land Bill was the subject
calling for their utmost attention, and it would be most
important to dispose of that before they began the consi-
deration of others, important though they might be.
Mr. BRUCE said the dealing with the licensing system
had been surrounded with the greatest difficulty, and

when he had undertaken the duty he found he had greatly

underrated the labour. It interfered with no less than
forty Acts of Parliament, and the labour of completing
this exceeded all his expectations. He was quite ready
to admit the impolicy and injustice of the present law,
and he agreed with the hon. member for Waterford
that it would not be well to introduce the measure he had
prepared without he saw a fair prospect of passing it
during the present session. The bill was prepared, and
he should only be too glad to introduce it, and although
he did not yet quite abandon that hope, yet if he snould
fail for the present, he should be in a position
on the very first night of the next session
of Parliament to introduce the measure, and
thus take the earliest opportunity of carrying the
motion, he hoped to a successful issue. He was quite
ready to bear his testimony to the bill of the hon. baronet
(Sir S. Ibbetson)—it had done a great deal of good, and he
hoped the larger measure would result in a like success.
Before he resumed his seat, he might say, with respect
to the Mines Regulation Bill, which stood for
the 25th of April, it was his intention to
have the bill committed pro formd for the purpose
of introducing certain amendments and clauses to embody
the provisions of the bill that had passed the other House
on the subject of Metalliferous Mines, and he had no
doubt that when that was done they would be able to dis-
pose of that matter in a single sitting.
Mr. MUNDELLA complained of the factious opposition
which was given to the progress of the Land Bill by hon.
gentlemen opposite. 1 hey had been over seven days ano
a half i I doing one clause and a half, and when the whole
of the :320 amendments which yet remained to be con•

sidered would be disposed of, neither he nor any other person
could tell. He thought the Government could not be
reproved or accused of want of sincerity, but it was the
conduct of those who threw every difficulty in the way of
the Government, and those who cheered them in their
speeches that were to blame for the delay. The noble

lord who addressed the House the other evening (Lord
0. Hamilton) had found no heartier admirer than the noble
lord the member for Hadclington.

Lord ELcHo defended himself from the charge that had
been made against him, and said he had only exercised

that right which he had secured for himself, in spite of
every opposition.

Mr. GLADSTONE said the error they had committed was

7n trying to do too much. That having been done it was
the wisest course to see how they could get over it.
The House had given pledges with regard to certain busi-
ness, and in the redemption of these pledges, not only the
public interest, but the character and credit of the House,
were involved.

Sir JOIIN PAKINGTON remarked that the state of public
business was different from what it had ever been on the
eve of the Easter Holidays. They had only succeeded in
passing one clause and a half of the most prominent bill
of the session. He hoped nothing would interfere with
the progress of the BilL

Mr. P. A. TAYLOR asked what the country would think
If the debate of that day, and called attention to the fact that
he had asked leave to bring in a bill which would reduce
the House to a working assembly.
Mr. NEVILLE-GRENVILLE pointed out that the House
had had many late sittings.
The motion for the adjournment was carried.
THE DUTY UPON SUGAR.

A discussion took place upon the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's proposition with reference to the reduction
on the sugar duty.
Mr. LOWE intimated that he could not make any modi-
fication in his proposal.