The Sun.
London, England, 1848-04-11 00:00:00

was unfit to be entertained by the House. No man who
spoke at a public meeting—none even who heard him—
would be safe against transportation for life with a Bill
so vaguely worded as this. What was meant by such
expressions as " compassings," " inventions," " imagin-
ings," "devices," &c. ?—(hear, hear.) He denied that
even in Ireland was there any necessity for this Bill.
The persons who had there infringed the law were about
to be brought to trial. Let not the House, then, be be-
trayed into the error of legislating with the view to
meet imaginary evils. This Bill would be in effect a
repeal of the Habeas Corpus Act and of
Government
lebnyt
v,j,(u)nryld.
The best protection to the Crown and Govm
be to
horrible
redress
haod of the
evidentlypeop i e .b—e
been
er, ae rv,i7heedari.
)
~
n
Ireland ; and he believed it had been resorterdtoli.ini
hitherto
who
country also. He regretted that those
supported popular rights should have introduced obalduc.dt isac'h
an objectionable measure.
Mr. WAKLEY had hoped that the Noble Lord at the
head of the Government would modify the objectionable
parts of this Bill. This was only due to the calmness
with which a subject of such an exciting nature had been
discussed; but no such modification had been consented
to. The Solicitor-General had given his view as to the
construction of one clause; other Hon. and Learned
Gentlemen had done the same; and there was the utmost
diversity of opinion as to what would be the operation of
the clause. This was a state of things neither creditable
to the House nor safe for the country. It was said that
judges and juries would comprehend the measure; but if
it was not understood by those who had manufactured it
and introduced the words, how could it be so by others ?
If this loose legislation were allowed there would be no
security for the people who took part in political mat-
ters, and they would have great reason to complain of
the negligence of the Legislature. The Honourable and
Learned Member for Oxford (Mr. Wood) had put a
construction on the clause which was as opposite as
the poles to that of the Solicitor-General. Knowing
what might be the operation of the clause, they
ought not to allow it to proceed a stage further ; and
his impression was, that he ought to move the adjourn-
ment of the debate. Whence the necessity for this
breathless haste for the sudden introduction of a Bill
like this ? There had been what he might call open
insurrection in Dublin for the last two months, almost
with the connivance of the Government. Men stated
there that they had resisted the law in a minor degree,
arid were prepared to resist it in the fullest manner.
Pikes had been manufactured and publicly sold by
suction. Only in November last a Bill had been passed
empowering the Lord-Lieutenant to proclaim disturbed
districts, and issue a special commissions for the trial of
offenders. That law, if carried into effect, would have
been amply sufficient to repress crime ; but there had
been a remarkable supineness in exercising its powers,
Of what use was that law if it could not be applied
to Dublin under these circumstances ? At all events,
the people of England, because offences were committed
elsewhere, ought not to be saddled with a measure
which was not less a gagging Act than any of the
Six Acts of 1819.—(Hear.) Least of all should such a
measure be passed by a Government calling itself liberal.
—(Hear, hear.) If the words were expunged to which
objection had been made he would cease further opposi-
tion; if the clause so ambiguously and peculiarly framed
were retained, it should have his most determined and
unflinching opposition at every stage. No case had been
made out for this measure. The present law had not
been proved inadequate for the preservation of the peace.
What had Government not anticipated? Their fears
had completely overwhelmed them; they had expected
a violent outbreak. Yet the monster petition had been
presented, and, so far as he could learn, not a single case
of common assault had occurred that day.—(Divide.)
Had not the law triumphed?—(Hear, hear.) Had not
the common sense, the sense of justice of the people who
presented the petition, also triumphed.—(No, no.) It
was an atrocious calumny on the people of this country
to intimate, by accent or tone of any kind, that it was
their object to commit outrage and violence. The Hon.
Member for Bridp3rt might exclaim " Oh, oh;" but it
was a calumny on the people to accuse them of being
lovers of outrage and violence, or of being prepared to
commit them. They believed that they were deprived
by the Legislature of their just political rights, and he
believed so too.—(Hear, hear.) He further believed that
they never would relax in their just and reasonable de•
mands until those rights were conceded—a concession
which would add to the security of property and of life,
and would place the throne on a basis which would ren-
der it absolutely immoveable.—(l.lear, hear.) When he
heard of the condition to which the people of Ireland
were reduced, and when they got nothing from that
House but coercion Bills, he thought they were right
to be indignant at such treatment. When he opposed
the Coercion Bill, in November last, ho could only gat
twenty-two Members to vote with him.— (Cheers.) They
I were now in April, and where were the measures which
sad been promised?—(Hear, hear.) There was a Land-
s. lord and Tenant Bill; but no one could comprehend it,
and its only object seemed to be to give employment to
the lawyers. He believed that the agitators in Ireland
were actuated by the best motives.—(lronical cheers.)
Would they have the people to lie down quietly and die
of hunger? He did not think that English Members
would wish to allow that. He would suggest that the
second reading should be taken without a division, on
the condition that the Government would commit the Bill
pro forma, and make what modification they could in the
clause so much objected to.—toh, oh.) If the Govern-
ment persisted in adhering to that clause, he would give
every opposition to the Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he could not, on the
part of the Government, consent to accept the proposi-
tion which the Hon. Member for Finsbury was good
enough to make with a view to a future consideration of
the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) So far from agreeing to that
proposition he declared at once that he would consent to
alter no part of the Bill when the House went into Corn-
raittee.—(llear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman attributed
a character of harshness and violence to the Bill which
was calculated to mislead those who attended to his
speech. The Noble Lord then explained the nature of
the Bill, which he said was merely to make certain
offences which were now punishable by death punishable
by transportation, and extending the law, which was
only in force in England and Scotland, to Ireland. He
was not then going to defend the particular clause which
had been objected to, because it would be opposed in
Committee, and the Solicitor-General had clearly and
ably stated the reasons why it was introduced.
The Honourable Gentleman asked why they should
select a time of excitement and fear for introducing
such a Bill. It was on account of that excitement
and fear, and the mischief which they had produced,
that they were justified in introducing this Bill. He
admitted to the Honourable Gentleman that excitement
and fear prevailed. No person could have read the
speeches in the newspapers delivered in this town within
the last week, and in Dublin within the last month,
without having cause for that fear and excitement. And
while he relied generally on the support of this country
to oppose such machinations, there was one great and
numerous class of people who would be affected more
than any others by such fear and excitement. He would
not appeal to the gentlemen of England, because their
high spirit would induce them to come forward in favour
of the institutions under which they lived, and which
had been the glory of their country.—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to the middle classes they were loyally
affected, and there was no fear that they would be mis-
led by arguments addressed to their passions.—(hear,
hear.) It was the working classes who were more espe-
cially exposed to danger by this excitement.—(Hear,
hear.) They it was who would be the sufferers
by anything that would derange the peace and
order of this country, and prevent the application of
capital in those numerous undertakings from which
profits and wages were derived. (Hear, hear.)
If that were the case, was it not fit that they should en-
deavour as much as possible to put an end to this excite
went, and endeavour to punish those who urged them to
commit breaches of the peace, who urged them to levy
war against the institutions of the country, and put in
peril the welfare of those classes to which they addressed
their appeals.—(Hear, hear.) If he were right in that
supposition the lion. Member for Finsbury, instead of
opposing the passing of this Bill, ought, as a friend of
the working classes, to support it.—(Hear, hear.) The
lion. Member for Manchester, also, who knew how
susceptible a thing capital was, and how its investment
was stopped by any violation of the peace of the commu-
nity; who knew very well that amongst the new-faugled
theories of the organization of labour, nothing was so
valuable to the labouring man as that there should be a
great number of employers, and that they should
have large capitals in which to found their enterprise,
and to call for the employment of labourers., ought to
support this measure.—(flcar, hear.) If that Hon.
Gentleman distrusted the objets that were put before
the working men, in which they were told that by some
future organization of labour they should be secured in
plenty, and should have every comfort and almost
riches—if be distrusted those theories, he would join
with him in putting an end to those disturbing forces
which were now agitating society.—(Hear, hear.) With
regard to Ireland, on which subject time Hon. Member
for
bhcatrweFe ieinnesbtirauonrdydut
leohera rddd
aa netdp an coal
tenant,
et d, t
htwlei
he
imsenh,
bajt lehteehtyoeutfgh
egh
heyt woi relationsmight
be beneficial to the country, but which might not have
given satisfaction, he begged to say that he did not
think these matters were the great or main business of
the Parliament or Government of this country.—(flear,
hear.) There were exceptions—exceptions which were
sometimes justifiable, sometimes beneficial, sometimes
even necessary. But those who could best regulate the
relations between landlords and tenants of Ireland were
the landlords and tenants of Ireland, and those who
could best regulate the relations between the employers
I and employed were the employers and employed. So
with regard to the other relations of society. They might
at times think fit to interfere—(Laughter)—but he al-
ways contended that those cases were to be defended as
exceptions for a particular occasion. That which was the
main business of Government and the Legislature was
to say that the landlord and tenant, the employer and
employed, should be protected by the law as long as they
respected the life arid property of others, and that the
law and the arm of power would interfere against those
who disturbed them in those useful, peaceful, and bene-
ficial relations.—(Cheers.) Such was the business to
which Government and Parliament should direct its con-
stant attention—such as what society could not do for
itself, which private individuals could not arrange
amongst one another—such were the objects to which
Government should chiefly direct its efforts. It was for
that purpose that they proposed this Bill. It was to
maintain a state of peace and security, in which the
offender should feel that he could no longer escape under
the grand name of being a martyr for high treason, of
which he would not incur the per.alty, because it inflicted
capital punishment—it was to maintain this necessary
principle of government, that they introduced this Bill.
anyt if
he
value
a lonnee couldo f
internal doub doubt
peace,or hesitate
and for
tthe
e annaceoensiseitn;
asA tic;
show
w ts preserving
vast
itbentheafitt.whileNh,hiotccuwrerneldd tboe-datyhe would
state
—not of the upper classes As they were called, but of the

working classes—if those excitements to crime, of which
they had seen so much, had been successful, and this
town had been made the scene of confusion and blood-
shed?—(Hear, hear.) And, what was the state of the
case when, owing to the staid, admirable, and magnani-
mous conduct of the great body of the people—(Cheers)
--when, owing to the respect which the people pay to
the name and authority of the law, to the attachment
and love which they bore their institutions—when,
owing to the respect and confidence which they reposed
in those demonstrations of force which the Government
had at its command, and which thus backed became
more powerful, but which, without the assistance of
the great body of the people could no more keep
the peace of London than it had been pre-
served at Berlin, Vienna, or Milan—the peace of the
metropolis had been maintained?—(Hear, hear.) This
power had bee❑ quite successful. And when they
contrasted the situation in which they stood with what
it would have been had the event been otherwise, there
was no man but must put a higher value on the peace
and security of society, o❑ which not only the progress
of institutions but the daily comforts end even the daily
subsistence of the great body of the people mainly de•
pended. He assured the Hen. Member for Finsbury
that he would not be a party to the introduction of this
Bill if he believed that the liberties of this country would
in any way be infringed by it.—(Hear, hear.) He be-
lieved that the power of discussion, whether by the
press or in public meetings, would be enjoyed as fully by
the country, after this Bill passed, as it was now enjoyed.
—(Hear, hear.) But, at the same time, he believed that
some reckless persons would be checked i❑ their career,
and that, while those who rose in arms would be strictly
punished by the law, those who excited others to such
offences would be no longer safe in their impunity.—
(Cheers.) It was for this purpose tbat he sked them
to agree to the second reading of the Bill. If he was
told that this was a coercion Bill for Ireland, it was the
same as was proposed for England and Scotland, and he
hoped with confidence that a large majority of the House
would consent to the second reading.—(Cheers).
Mr. HORS MAN rose to address the House, but the
cries of " Divide, divide," preventing him from being
heard, ho moved that the debate be adjourned.
Mr. HUME seconded the amendment.
Lord J. RUSSELL called upon the House to hear
the Hon. Member.
Mr. HORSMAN then withdrew his amendment, and
said he should vote for the second reading of the Bill,
in the hope that the Noble Lord would omit that part
of the measure which precluded " open and advised
speaking." The precedent for such a course was afforded
by Lord Granville, who withdrew these very words from
the identical Bill—which then passed into an Act it
was now proposed to modify.
Mr. HINDLEY said he should be ready to support
the second reading on the same conditions.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it 35
Majority
Sir G. GREY moved that the House do go into Com-
mittee on the Bill.
Mr. AGLIONBY objected to the transportation clause
of the Bill.

Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that he hoped Ireland
would be struck out of the Bill.—(A laugh.)
Mr. HUME, believing that the Bill was an attack on
the constitution, by which the Government would be
weakened, and believing also that the Ministers were
urged on by those who only supported in order to betray
them, earnestly begged Ministers to delay the progress
of the Bill, so as to let the country know what it really
was. He proposed that Monday next should be fixed
for the Committee.

Sir GEORGE GREY urged that it would be a mercy
to those who were now being goaded into rebellion to
let the Bill pass as speedily as possible. If the House
would consent to meet to• morrow at twelve o'clock, he
would be content with committing the Bill pro forma,
merely for the purpose of making some verbal amend-
ments.

Mr. HUME had no objection to this course.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL would not yield his precedence
on the following day.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Hon. Member
would be able to bring forward his motion at the usual
hoar of sitting in the evening, when he would have
precedence.
Mr. GARDNER said, that although he was a young
Member—(Oh, oh)—he appealed to the House.—(Oh,
oh.) He begged only to be heard.—(Oh, oh.) He
would not detain—(Oh.) The cries of " Oh" at
length completely drowned the Hon. Member's voice,
who sat dow❑ for a moment, and then rose and moved
that the Rouse do now azijourn. [A. desultory conver-
satio❑ ensued, during which Sir G. Grey and Lord J.
Russell urged the Hon. Member to withdraw his motion
and speak to the question.] Mr. Gardner withdrew his
motion, and said that he had taken the course which he
had done merely in order to be able to deliver his sen-
timents on the Bill, as he had not been able to catch the
Speaker's eye. The reasons urged by the Noble Lord
(J. Russell) were all against the Bill. He objected to
the Bill as curtailing that freedom of speech which was
one of the most essential privileges of the British
people. Some violent language of Mr. Mitchell had been
quoted as its justification; but, he asked, would Govern-
ment have cared for such language had it not been ad-
dressed to a people smarting under misery and injustice?
—(Hear, hear.) When the people demanded justice,
every delay was interposed; but when coercion was con-
templated, precipitation was the order of the day.—
(Question, question.) He believed he was giving a vote
in favour of order, and on Conservative principles, in
opposing every constitutional obstacle to the progress of
this measure —(Hear, hear.)
Mr. AGLIONBY hoped that the suggestion he bad
offered in the early part of the evening, with reference
to the third clause, would be attended to by Govern-
ment.—(The object of the Honourable Member's sug-
gestion was to make a distinction between spoken and
written treason.)

Mr. F. O'CONNOR wished for postponement, and
grounded his request oa the speech of the Hon. and
Learned Solicitor-General. He considered that that
lion. and Learned Gentleman's explanation of the de-
finitions of the Bill was most ambiguous. He (Mr.
O'Connor) should give every opposition in his power to
what he conceived to be a most unconstitutional propo-
sition. He conceived that Government had acted most
unconstitutionally in tacking themselves to the Crown
in this Bill. Take a case. As soon as this Bill became
law lie should raise the cry from one end of the country
to the other of " Down with the Whigs." Would he
not in doing so make himself obnoxious to its provi-
sions ?—(Hear, hear.) The Bill might check agitation
but only to put in its place secret plots and conspiracy.
There was no man in that House rejoiced more than he
did at the way in which that day had passed off.—(Cries
of " Oh, oh.") But London was not England, and they
did not know how their conduct would be estimated in
the provinces.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said be had a motion on the
paper for this day, and claimed precedence for it at the
next sitting of the House.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Hon. Member's mo-
tion for the repeal of the union would come on exactly
at the same hour, whether the House sat at twelve
o'clock or not.

Mr. HUME considered that the lion. Member for
Limerick had a right to precedence. With these views
he should move as an amendment that the Bill should
be committed that day week.
Mr. WAKLEY seconded the amendment.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion

For the amendment
Majority
_ .

A motion was then made that the House do now
adjourn, upon which the House again divided, when
there appeared—
Ayes
Noes

Majority
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. G. THOMPSON contending that the measure
would not give security to the Crown or the people.—
(Oh, oh.) They were now legislating on liberty of
thought—on liberty of speech—a right that was not
given by human enactment, and which ought never to
be taken away by human enactment.—(" Oh, oh," and
" Hear, hear.") They were making it felony by this
Bill to deny the divine right of the Sovereign—(Hear,
hear)—or to advocate the separation of any part of the
empire.—(llear, hear.) They were about to admit
those who denied the divinity of the Saviour—(" Ques-
tion, questbn")—and they were now to make it felony
to call in question the divine right of the Sovereign.—
(" Oh, oh," and " giestion, question.") Ile defied
Honourable Members to point to one act on the part of
the people that day, or previously, which evinced any
intention or desire to commit an act of violence; and
yet the Government had thought it necessary to make
preparations of the most horrid and unexampled de-
scription for their slaughter.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh,"
groans, and other interruptions.) lie was determined
not to bear any share in the responsibility of the
measure, and he, therefore, moved that the House do
now adjourn.
Mr. WAKLEY said the whole question was, whether
the adjournment should be to " this day" or " to-
morrow."

Sir G. GREY had no objection to say " to-morrow,"
if the Hon. Member would guarantee that the Bill
would be allowed to take precedence on that day. But
Wednesday not being a Government day, without such
pledge he could not consent, and must ask the !louse to
support him.—(Cheers.)
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For adjournment— 24
Against it

Majority —lB9
The Bill was ordered to be committed to-morrow
(this day) at twelve o'clock.
We were informed that, during our exclusion from the
gallery, Mr. F. O'Connor was discovered fast asleep on
one of the benches of the House when the Members re-
turned into the House from the lobbies. This circum-
stance was duly reported by the tellers to the Speaker,
and the Hon. Member was thereupon awakened, and
required to say whether he voted with the Ayes or the
Noes ? The Hon. Member voted with the Ayes, which
provoked much merriment, his vote being, as we under-
stood, at variance with that which he had just before
given.
The House then adjourned, at Half-past One o'clock,
to Twelve o'clock to• morrow (this day).

Ann.EL-KADER.—The Provisional Government of
the French Republic has just I;n:en orders for the speedy
removal of Abd-el-Bader and his suite to the castle of
Pau. The Commander of the Engineers of that place
has sent to a journal the following as the substance of
the orders which he has received :—" The persons to be
with Abd-el Kader are three of his brothers, his brother-
in-law, and three or four near relations. Each of these
persons has a family composed of one or two wives and
several children, and each family has one or more se4..
volts. The whole number will be at least 40 persons,'