The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-03 00:00:00

tress on his land—not only of charging 5 per cent. ad
ditional on any arrears which might remain over unpaid,
but they had also the power of leasing for ever, or of
selling off, every acre of his land. (Hear, hear.)

Now,— he would ask the House if this was a power

that ought to be given over any man's estate? They-(the
landlords of Ireland) wanted not the assistance of
50,0001., and for that reason he bad opposed it the other
night. A 1,000,0001. had been already repaid to the
United Kingdom, with an additional 150,000/. interest ;
the interest beta een three and five per cent. on the last
three years. All the Irish landlords wanted was that
some facility should be given for borrowing money. If
the Bill were considerably amended in some of its
particulars, and power, as he said, given to the landlords
to borrow money for the improvement of their estates,
then they would take care that such improvements were
made, and that the labourers would be sufficiently paid
by those who employed then'. They might depend on
it that in this way landlords would be able to•do more
good than if still under the guiding strings of the Com-
missioners. It had been slid that consider•
able difficulty had been experienced in work-
ing out this Act, because two-thirds of the
landlords would not assent to its provisions.
Perhaps they had sufficient reasons for the adoption of
this course. They might not have that faith in the
decisions of the Commissioners which others had. He
had some experience in Irish matters, and he could
assure the Right Hon. Baronet opposite that without
considerable modifications the Act would be received
with dissatisfactio❑ by all classes in Ireland.
Sir T. FREMANTLE said that ii there was any man
in the House who would take such a view of the case,
as had just been taken, it was his Hon. Friend opposite.
The expense might be greater than if it were performed
by private parties, if the Board of Works super-
intended it; but it was necessary to have some authority
to reconcile the cor.ffieting interests of different parties.
The general impression was, that the Board of Works
had performed their duties well and impartially, and
they certainly deserved that great confidence should be
reposed in them, and additional power was necessary, in
order to enable them to carry out the ditties imposed
on them. He did not think this question was altogether
one affecting private property. The Board of Works
required the power to drain the land immediately ad-
joining the rivers ; the landed proprietors who lived
at a greater distancefrom the river would then be induced

to drain the rest of the land at their own private expense.
When they find, however, the water dammed back by
the proprietor of the thousand acres to whom the Hon.
Member had referred as an illustration, it was not to be
considered probable that they would go to the expense
of draining their property.
Sir R. FERGUSON considered that the alarming
preliminary expenses and the great power given
to this Board under the Act was a very serious detri-
ment to the successful operation of this Act. There had
been but two or three cases of drainage under the Act
on account of these great expenses. These Drainage
Commissioners, when they had prepared a schedule
of what they considered necessary to be done, were not
then bound by plans, schedules, or anything else.
He thought that no landed proprietor in England would
consent to this meddling with their property. This
Bill, without any •excepticn, was the most objection-
able that had ever been introduced into the House, with
respect to Ireland, and he hoped the Government would
give it some further consideration. before they proceeded
with it. The Board of Works, instead of doing the work
themselves, ought to compound with private individuals
for its execution, and then they would prove themselves of
service to Ireland. Under the present system, however,
their interference was seldom or never sought for, ex-
cept in the case of some old mill, which could not be got
rid of without their interference.
Mr. O'CONNELL trusted that the second read-
ing of the Bill would be persisted in. He had
no complaint to make of the Board of Works. They
were ready enough to complain of things in
Ireland, but he knew of no reason to com-.
plain of the Board of Works, except it was
the exorbitance of their prelimary expenses. But per-
haps this was more the fault of the Legislature than of
the Commissioners.—(Hear, hear.) At no time was
drainage more wanted in Ireland than at the present
moment, for the waters were to be seen overflowing in
all pa to of the country. He therefore rose to express
his hearty concurrence in the Bill being read a, second
time.
The Bill was then read a second time, and the Com-
mittee fixed for to-morrow.
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) BILL.
Sir T. FREMANTLE moved the order of the day fer
the further consideration of the report of the Public
Works (Ireland) Bill.
Mr. F. FRENCH rose to object to the 6th and 7th
clauses of the Bill, as those clauses would take all power
and control out of the hands of the landed proprietors,
and place it in the hands of the Commissioners.
Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE said ho intended to
withdraw the clauses, and bring up another on the re-
ception of the report.
Sir R. FERGUSON objected to the sth clause alto-
gether. It was quite unnecessary, and though the object
might have been to give more employment, it would fail
to have that effect. With respect to the compulsory,
powers which were conferred, he was of opinion that they
should be restrained. He would again impress upon
the Right Honourable Gentleman the propriety of
omitting the 3d clause, as it would be perfectly urinecssary.
Colonel CONNOLLY said he believed that the pre-
sent Bill would have the tendency of increasing the
burdens of the people of Ireland. Under this measure
landowners would have no volition or choice or power
whatever. He should be sorry to retard in the slightest
degree the progress of the measures contemplated by the
Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland, and
which had been brought before the House with such
evident anxiety to ameliorate the condition of the
people of Ireland. If the measures were good, he
should at once ask the House to pass the
Bill into a law as soon as possible ; but
he perfectly agreed with his two Hon. Friends on the
opposite side of the House that the powers sought for by
the Bill wet eft& too compulsory. The Bill would, if passed
in its present shape, tend to increase the odium which
already attached to the presentments of the grand juries
of Ireland ; the course proposed to be pursued by them,
under the directionof the Bill, would be a very injudicious
course. In general terms, he begged leave to state his
strong objections to the powers proposed to be given to the
Irish grand juries, and he should therefore be obliged
to oppose the Bill as it at present stood.
Mr. O'CONNELL said he agreed with his Hon.
Friend Sir Robert Ferguson that the compulsory powers
proposed to be given by the Bill were highly objection-
able, but on the whole he was of opinion that the Bill
would tend to benefit the people of Ireland, and it should
therefore have his support ; and he was of opinion that
the sooner it passed the better.
Sir ROBERT FERGUSON said he felt it his duty
to take the sense of the House on the fifth clause of the
Bill. The Government, by the third clause, would have
sufficient power with respect to the drainage of land;
and he was therefore of opinion, that it would be inju-
dicious to add thereto the powers contemplated by the
fifth clause.
Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE explained.
Mr. F. FRENCH said the Act gave an increased
power -in reference to the mode of constituting new
roads ; and it was also desirous that that power should
be extended ; but that was scarcely necessary, because
even now the filling up of ruts in a road was an im-
provement of it. The sum to be thus expended was
certainly very small, but the principle it involved was
one of great importance to the country. He would sup-
port the motion of his Hon. Friend.
The- CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
was well known that the operation of the grand jury
Act as it at present existed was this, that in all cases of
new projects, or the improvement of existing
public works, the Government paid one-half and
the grand jury levied the other. It was also in
the power of the magistrates and cess payers to call a
meeting and consider the necessity of any proposed
public work, or the improvement of an existing work
before it could be carried into effect.
Mr. FRENCH—Those subjects did not go before the
grand juries at all.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was aware they did not: the facts were as he had stated.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD considered that the
Right Hon. Gentleman was under a mistake. As he
understood the Act, this meeting of magistrates and
special rate-payers was entirely uncontrolled by the
grand jury. Altogether he disapproved of this system
of compulsory assessments.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. A. HAMILTON thought that the Hon. Gentle-
man ought not to persevere iu his opposition.
Sir ROBERT _FERGUSON expressed his determi-
nation to proceed, and to take the sense of the House
upon the clause.
The House the divided—
For the clause
Against
Majority
The remaining clauses were then passed, and the
report was agreed to; and the Bill, with the amend-
ments, ordered to be engrossed, and read a third time
to-morrow.
HARBOURS AND PIERS FOR THE FISHERIES
OF IRELAND.

97

Sir T. FREMANTLE rose to move for leave to
bring in a Bill for the grant of the sum of 50,0001. for
the construction of piers, and the improvement of
harbours, with a view to encourage the fisheries of Ire-
land. In doing this he felt it necessary to observe that
off the extensive coast which surrounded that island, it
was well known that there was an abundant supply of
excellent fish. Several attempts had been made to in-
duce the peasantry to avail themselves of these means of
subsistence, but he regreted to say, that in several in-
stances those atteraps had not been so successful as
might have been desired, and he believed that it was
chiefly owing to the want of the necessary means to
render those exertions profitable. There was, it was
true, a considerable want of enterprise, but it was hardly
to be expected, that without the possession of the
necessary boats that active spirit of industry could
be induced. The boats which they used were only
such as were fit to be launched from the beach, and if
they had possessed any others larger there was neither
quay nor pier from which to use them. In order to
render such an attempt successful they must provide the
means for landing from such boats as were fit to go out
into deep sea, were the greatest uuinber of the best fish
were always to be found. Such fishing grounds were
known to exist off all parts of the coast of Ireland, and
he believed, that if in addition to the construction of
piers and harbours the inhabitants in the neighbour-
hood of such localities were to be provided with the ne-
cessary craft, tackle, and gear, they would be prompted
to secure the benefit of the great advantages which lay
within their reach. He proposed, therefore, that the
necessary quays and piers should be constructed under
the superintendence of the Board of Works, for he had
learned that in consequence of the want of some such
provision, piers had in some instances been constructed
in very ill-advised positions, and in a very defective
manner, With the consent, then, of his Right