The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-28 00:00:00

TUESDAY VVENING, JCLY Q, 1846.

would reimburse them for their capital. It had been said that
evening, that if they refused this measure they deprived the
poor man of those luxuries which were almost necessaries of
life. " Deprive him of the luxuries" were words too poetical
for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He said it would not
deprive any poor man of a single half-ounce of sugar; whereas
the adoption of the measure would tinge his morning and his
evening meal with blond.— (Laughter. ) The measure encou-
raged slavery, and he saw no reason why he should adopt it—
why, if he could not do all the good he desired to do, he should
do all the evil which his neighbour might wish him to do.
From the statement of his Noble Friend the Member for
Lynn, with regard to the horrors of the slave trade, the
House would draw its own conclusions. Slave-traders' vessels
carry larger cargoes now than they did previous to the eman-
cipation. One American slaver had lately carried 1,500.
The Carolina lauded 976 in Brazil, while another vessel had
made three voyages in thirteen months, landing in the Brazils
1,820 slaves in the thirteen months. When they considered
that the first coat of these slaves was from eight to eighteen
dollars, while when they were landed in the Brazils they
sold for 301, they could not wonder that the trade was
carried on by men who neither loved their God nor feared
their fellow epan.—(Hear, hear.) But were they, without
any temptation, sitting at a distance of some thousands of miles
from the scene of those cruelties and horrors, deliberately to
give their sanction ?—( Hear, hear.) He trusted that there
would be found in that House, as well as in the country, those
who would not purchase the luxury of 20,000 additional
tons of sugar at the price of so much misery as that which
must follow the passing of the Government measure, but that
they would rather be content to pay a fractional sum more for
their sugars for the purpose of encouraging the industry of I
their own country, and discountenancing a vile and horrid
traffic in human life and human misery.—( Hear, hear. )
Under these circumstances it was needless for him to say with
what cordial satisfaction he concurred is the resolution of the
Noble Lord the Memherefor Lynn, and with what ardent—he
wished he could say sanguine—hope he looked for its ultimate
success, by the House discharging the highest duty of the
country, and refusing to give any further sanction to a system
that was as injurious to man as it was dishonourable to corn-
merce.—( Hear, hoar.)
Lord SANDON did not quarrel with the Hon. Baronet who
had just sat down for the views he took upon the question, and
perhaps had that been the first occasion upon which it was
proposed to make a distinction in the sugar duties, he should
have been inclined to participate in them. But would the op-
position which was then offered to the Government proposal
settle the matter ? No, it certainly would not ; for, after
agreeing to the principle in 1841, of admitting slave-grown
sugar on payment of a particular duty; they could not refuse to
reconsider the amount of restriction to be placed upon the in-
troduction of sugar into this country, the produce of slave
labour. In 1841 he osok the liberty of expressing his doubt of
the expediency of the steps which the House then took ; but
having taken these steps, he confessed, after consulting
some of the most experienced merchants in the country upon
the subject, that the conclusion he had came to was, that they had
already settled the question of the admissibility of slave grown
sugar, a d it .now only remained to be decided what were the
best terms the country could admit it upon.—( Hear.) But
with regard to the encouragement which he offered to the
slava trade by admitting Brazilian sugar, he had, following
the advice of Bacon, placed his opinions upon paper. He had
thus ascertained facts to eo upon, namely, that if Java some
could be sold in this country at a price much less than slave
grown sugar, the latter would
.be taken to Hamhurgh,
or some such a place, to make up for he deficiency in the
supply of the former that was created by the preference
which this country exhibited for sugar the produce of free la-
bour.—( Hear, hear.) The concha ion he had come to then
was, that the attempt to draw a distinction bete een slave
grown and free labour sugar was a fallacy, and this was one
reason why he could not support the amendment of
the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn.—( Hear. )
The present measure created a great deal of irritation in
Brazil and Spain. Those merchants dealing with Brazil are
hardly sure of their property or their lives. He was far from
considering that the present measure would give that additional
encouragement to the slave trade, and he had no doubt that
free labour would beat slave labour when admitted upon
equal terms into the market.—( Heor. hear ) Had for-
mer Governments disregarded the petty jealousies of the
planters, and had they encouraged free labour and imported
labour into the market, there would have been no occasion for
the present measure, nor would they have reason to say
that a failure had taken place after the experiment
had been tried for the space of fourteen years.
But he hoped it 'was not yet too late; he hoped the
Honourable Member who had already shown such
extended knowledge with regard to the question would look the
matter boldly in the face, and that he would employ such time
as the Parliament should in its wisdom determine, to give the
matter his serious attention. Why should they not make use
of their extended empire for the benefit of the people, and
grant to their colonies advantages over the people of other
nations ? He considered it would not be beneficial to postpone
the question, as the uncertainty which would hang over the final
determination of Parliament would produce a stagnation in
trade, the merchant or trader being afraid to invest his capital.
He rejoiced that the measure had been introduced. It
would tend to: the prosperity of the colonial interest, especially
to that of the East and West Indies, that the planters and
commercial men should know as early as possible what
would be the determination of Parliament.—( Hear, bear.)
When 24,0001. could be made out of an outlay of 8,000/ in
one season, he did not consider that the traders had much
reason to fear any resolution which they might consider wise
.to adopt, for these reasons he could not give his assent to the
proposition of the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. GRA NTLEY BERKELEY complained that there had
not been sufficient encouragement afforded by the Government
to the importation of free labour into the colonies. That was
the reason the crops had failed, because they were not suffi-
ciently cultivated. There was one paint to which he would
call the attention of the House, and that was the fact that
there were at Berbice 1,050 unoccupied estates, although that
country alone would produce •ufficient sugar for Europe. In
the year 1836 the sugar crop of Berbice was 13,000 hogsheads,
and in the sear 1841 the crop fell to about 4,500; and since
that there had been a gradual reduction in the price, occa-
sioned by the employment of captured Africans. Those en-
gag. d in the West India trade could scarcely save themselves
from absolute ruin, and there was a great disorganization in
the West Indies in consequence of the free labourers leaving
their employment without notice. He would ask the House,
and he would appeal to the country on the question, what
right, or sort of right, had they to restrict certain localities?
If they had established the fact that our markets were to be
free to every country in the worltl, he contended that they had
an equal right to permit the people of this . country to pur-
chase their sugar in the cheapest market, without any sort of
restriction. They had no right. to say to the people of this
country, 's You shall' only be permitted to purchase your
sus ar fr. to the British dominions." He contended, that if
they had free trade with respect to corn, they should have free
trade with respect to sugar and every other article. He called
upon the House to take into consideration the necessity of
carrying out, to their fullest extent, the great principles of free
trade which they bad recently sanctioned.
Sir J. HOGG assured the House that his earnest desire was
that the people of this country should have an abundant supply
of sugar.—( Hear, hear.) That was his desire in 1841, and
that was his intention and desire now. Bu, five years had since
elapsed, and he now asked hinis if whether these alterations
had been carried out—had his anticipations been realised—had
the measures which he supported been carried out as success-
fully as he could have desired ? If he found that the measures
which he at that time supported failed in producing the results
which he anticipated, then he should he ashamed to rise in hi•
place in that House, and urge upon that assembly to continue
the adoption of measures which had signally failed. He would
ask, did the measures which were then adopted afford the
people of this country an adequate supply of segar ? He need
scarcely argue the point. It so happened that the calculation
which the Noble Lord opposite had made, as to the quantity of
sugar expected to arrive in this county this y. ar, was almost
verbatim—almost tdidein rerbis—the' same calculation as
he ( Sir .1. Hogg) had himself ventured to indulge in
1841, five years ago—( Hear, hear)-115,000 tons from the
West Indies, and from the Mauritius, as the Noble Lord made
it appear, 75,000 tons had been received, and he ( Sir John
Hogg) ventured to calculate five years ago that the amount that
would be received would be 60,000 tons. He lead ventured to
state that in the following year India would yield 100,000
tons, and he did not make that statement rashly. He in-
formed himself from those quarters where the most authentic
information was likely to be—he made every inquiry in his
power, and he believed that those who furnished him with the
information had no desire to deceive him. How came it then
that the injury did not develope itself ? The population of
India was pre-eminently a sugar eating people.—
( Laughter.) It was almost their only luxury ; and they in-
dulged in it as far as their means would allow them. But they
did not indulge in the use of manufactured sugar. The Noble
Lord had said that sugar could only be exported when it was
at a certain price. But he ( Sir John Hogg) begged per-
mission of the House to say that that statement was erroneous,
because the people of India scarcely ever consumed manu-
factured sugar. The sweetmeats which they consumed were
made of unmateufactured sugar. He was rather well pleased
to ack.nine.ledge Mat bailie, did not send 100,000' tons to this
country. The increased production of sugar in India was
little more than adequate to the increased consumption among
the people of India. He was really sorry that as far as his
knowledge of India went, those fairy visions of the Noble Lord
as to the increas3 of capital could.
not be realised.--( Hear,
hear.) He was sure that the Noble Lord must have been
misled—(Hear, hear)— in the calculations which he had laid
before the House as to the production of the Indian soil,
and still more as to the productiveness of Indian capital,
If he failed in his anticipations as:to quantity, he did so also in
regard to price. During the six months of this year, the
imports and deliveries are less than the corresponding six
months of the preceding year. The consumption of the
world should he looked at. The consumption of sugar in the
whole world was 840.000; the whole amount of sugar grown
in the tropics are only 771,001. The difference was made up
of beet root sugar from France. The consumption of Europe
alone was 675,000. The balance remaining in hand at the
conclusion of each year was only about 131,000
or one month's consumption.—( Hear, hear.) The case
was so with no other article. It was melancholy to re-
flect on the condition of the people 01 England, whose
consumptionprotection
ofsugaronly averaged six pounds per head. Upon
the he could not say much, having voted
for the gradual abolition of the corn-laws, he should be sorry to
stand up in opposition to the gradual abolition of the duties
upon
.paclttlygars.
than sugars.—(Cheers.)
t h e
of e a
a.) Member of Parliament
East Indian • He did not
stand as the delegate of the est. They did
other
inter
not wish protection. Like all herc asses, they would take
11 protection if you gave it them, and, like everybody else, they
Would keep it as long as they could.—(Cheers.) The case
was different as between the East and West Indies,
CHe did not stand there in any other
in consequenco of the amount of labour_ to be obtained in the
East Indies. He wished that the West Indians had had two
or three years to make preparations for the contest with the
East Indies. He thought it a great mistake to suppose that the
labour of the Hill Coolies was equal to the labour of the
/Wean labourers. He hoped the Government would take into
them by the existence of the He thought that the duty on rum
their consideration the propriety of having a general free trade
—not a one-sided free trade—and that they would be allowed
to use the Manilla and other sugars in the distilleries of this
country and Scotland and Ireland. The public should have
went of Powell Buxton. He acknow-
the best spirits which could be obtained, instead of the trashy
acknowledgment
had done for its suppression was a
rced
of late increased. Cuba, which thirty
pre-
sentssubstanceshou l di intricate
e mantooewr eexf fairly wup:n
equalised than it was at present. He
was
sl the exertions
sufficient t hen
would now say a few avoids in reference to the slave trade.
le
dLookge
da t theth that
ta caklnl
tat carry
tmagnificenthesl v
years ago had to import sugar for her own consumption, now
manufactured 200,000
to show that 100,000 slaves were annually imported there. If
etradfaeiluhrade. Notwithstanding tahnsdtantshieinreg
they wished to destroy the slave trade they must alloW slaves to
back with them into
Africa emigrate
th
et ot,
principles
pWeptes o f
vlndies,na
Mr. HOPE thought that this measure was one of great
severity, if not of great injustice, towards the West Indies. He
did not advocate the Continuance of the present protective
duties, but he thought the measure would be productive ofgreet
injury to all those who had property in that
quarter of the globe.
The difficulty they would have to contend with in Africa would
be the difficulty of inducing free men to go there. The condi-
tion of the people of Africa was that of master and slave, of
lord and villain. The slaves there were not sold as slaves, nor
were they sent away except for a crime. But still there slavery
procuredwasmost anddbiusttinuctithgreat difficulty, and -then in -verY undoubted. The people were not to be
Amino: ladji the .410 WU dtihreht-ithe/ IPA

abundant supply, and under a system which had been lately
introduced, ens gration from India was going on to a consider-
able extent, and there were no less than fi oin 9.0.000 to 30,000
men already embarked on their passage ; and by the present
measure they entirely took away from these people the pros
specs of any fair rex-numeration for their labour. He must ob-
ject to one statement made by a Government officer, which he ,
thought unfair. It was the letter of Mr. John Porter, stating
that the. West Indies could produce an ample quantity of sugar,
provided it had sufficient stimulus in the way of competition.
He was aware that. the West Indies had already had too much
competition, that she already felt the wound, and was injured
, by the measures which had been alt eady adopted. Ile was
I not one who looked upon a state of slavery as one of such
horror as had been described, but he would conclude by saying
that they were increasing its horrors by attempting to sup-
press it by force, and by causing greater losses to those en-
gaged in it.
Sir 11. PEEL said, Sir, this House will probably recollect
what has indeed been adverted to by the Noble Lord, the
Member for Lynn, that at an early period of the present
session, I announced the intention of the late Government to
propose a measure with reference to the admission of foreign
sugar, which was bated on a different principle front that
which the Noble Lord has proposed. The proposal which I
intended to make on the part of that government was to give
greater facilities and encouragement to the admission of free
labour, and I have no hesitation in saying that had that Govern-
ment remained in office, the proposal which I should have
made on the part of that Government would have been that
announced at an esrly period of the session. That measure
so proposed on the part of the Government would have con-
tained the exclusion from the markets of this country of sugar
the produce of the slave-trade, but would have admitted at
lower rates of duty that sugar which was the produce of free
labour and of foreign growth in competition with sugar the
produce of our own country. I think it but right, therefore,
that I should now state-the vote which I intend to give. - Both -
myself and those who have acted along with me have felt that
in the question of slave labour and the produce of slave labour,
there was an exception to the principle on which
the ordinary affairs of commerce were conducted. I
felt that we stood in a pecultar position with regard to the
West. India colonies. The case of the East Indies was different
in regard to the supply of labour, but with respect to the West
Indies we did think that this eountry did stand in a seecial and
peculiar position towards it.—(Hear, hear.) You had no
doubt made a great sacrifice in order to put an end to slavery
in those colonies ; you had given for the emancipation of their
slaves a liberal—nay, what many would consider a magnificent
compensation ; but whether or no that was a sufficient com-
pensation for what the West Indian interest had given up is a
question open to dispute. Be that as it may, it did subject the
colonies to great disadvantages in competing with foreign
countries where slavery was in existence.—( Hear, hear.) That
led to the conclusion that it was right, before these colonies
were required to enter into competition with other
countries, that a considerable interval of time should
be allowed to elapse.—( Hear.) it was the peculiar
circumstances in which the Act of Emancipation had placed
the West Indian taat led to the opinion in my own mind, and
those with whom I have acted, that we ought to depart frcm
the ordinary principles on which commercial affairs are con-
ducted. In that opinion, I may say, I was supported by one
of the most strenuous supporters of the general application
of free-trade. The gentleman to whom I allude is Mr.
Deacon Hume. On this account we thought it of the greatest
importance to preset ve to the West India interest the markets
of this country, and that we should give an interval of time
before entering upon an equalisation of duties with the pro-
duct of foreign countries. We thought also that the colonies
stood in a different position irom other countries in regard
to slavery. We had not only put an end to it in our colonies,
but we had also undertaken the police of the seas, in which
we had departed from all the ordinary rules of international
law. In order to carry that out we formed treaties with other
powers for the suppression and abolition of the slave trade,
and we made these engaged in trade to submit to regulations
which were net in agreement with the ordinary laws of com-
mercial intercourse. We instituted the right of search, and
finding that France would not agree to that, we establish, d in
concert wi:h the Government of that country an immense
fleet o cruise off the coast of Africa, to put an end to the
exportation of negroes from there to other countries. This
was a violation of all international laws, still I consider it was
perfectly right we should do so. We had gone further
than the simple abrogation of slavery in our colonies';
we had not only shown a great example to
other countries in the abolition of slavery in our colonies,
but we did not rely on that alone, for we applied the physical
main force of the country in order to put an end to the slave
trade.—( Hear, hear.) It did appear, therefore, taking a full
view of the question, that some time ought to elapse before the
produce of slave-growing countries was admitted into competi-
tion with the produce of our colonial possessfons. In regard to
the statement which was made by the Noble Lord (George
Bentinek ) it is impossible to review it without being shocked
at the horror of the system which he deprecates, or without
feeling that public opinion and public sentiment will go along
with him in its condemnation. The Noble Lord has given
specimens of the horrors of this system. in which the House has
fully sympathised; and if it could be shown that by raising the
price of sugar Id. or I a pound, an effectual stop
would be put to the horrors of this horrible
traffic, I quite sure the country would cherfully make the
saerifice.—am (Cheers.) Twenty millions hade been freely given
is order to release the bonds of the West India slaves; and
if the distinction now maintained between slave and free-
grown produce was calculated to abolish slavery in other
countries, I ant sure the people of this country would willingly,
bear the tax: I f.•ar that it may 'it 'first give a stimulus to
slavery. It is not without great reluctance, therefore, that I
have come to the resolution to give my support to the mea-
sure.—(Cheers.) I am forced to consider other rather than
the mere abstract question ; there was the position of parties,
and the prospect of forming a Government on the dissolu-
tion of the present Government.—( Hear, hear.) I agree
with the Noble Lord that It ought to be no sham opposition.
I agree that if any opposition were formed to her Majesty's
Government, it ought to be an opposition intended to be fatal
to that Government. I believe it possible by combination to
displace the Noble Lord ; at least I believe it possible by com-
bination to throw out the measure.,, I think it would be pos-
sible to raise a feeling in this country against this measure, at
all events to raise a fatal impediment to it ; and I feel myself
bound to ask myself this question, whether I could sanction
such opposition, and I think that I ought not.—( Hear,
hear.) The Government with which I was connected
was displaced by a vote of this House, tantamount
to a withdrawal of confident:" from that Government.—( Hear. )
I yielded to that vote. The Noble Lord was called on by her
Majesty to form a Government, as it seemed, with the appro-
bation of this House. The Noble Lord is prepared with a pro-
posal fi r the foci adjustment of this question. I am prepared
for that. The Noble Lord could not. accept of power without
being prepared with a proposal on this subject. I could have no
daub' of it.— (Hear.) When in the beginnii.g of last year, in
the month of February, I proposed my meas,ur-•on sugar, the
Nettie Lord proposed a motion on the same sehject, fur doing
away with the distinction between slave and free-labour sugars.
That was the course which he pursued on that occasion.
—( Hear ) In ti.e course of this year, when this question came
on again to be considered, the Noble Laid, before the Easter
recess, gave notice of a motion to the effect that the distinc-
tion between slave and free-labour sugar was impoltic and un-
lust, and that it could not be maintained, and that it should
be abolished. The Noble Lord's proposal then was, that this
distinction between slave and free labour sugar should be
abolished. The Noble Lord, and those who sit with him on
the Treasury benches, put the same construction on certain
treaties, as 1 and those that are with me, put upon them ;
hut I said that good faith must be kept, so far as effect, d
the excluding of certain produce from the markets.
—(Loud cries of Hear.) Consequently notice has been
given of the course which the Noble Lord would follow, and
good faith and consistency required chat that distinction
between slave and free-labour sugsrs should be abolished.—
( Hear, hear.) Now I could not doubt that the Noble Lord,
when he was called to power, would abolish that distinction.
It was indeed open to the Noble Lord to proceed immediately,
or to take time for the mature consideration of the subject,
but the Noble Lord has chosen to proceed at once. Whether
he proceeded at once, or took time till next November, it was
a mere question of time. I understood that the Noble Lord
arid his friends would effect the abolition of that distinction.
Why perhaps it was better that it should be made at
once, as far as sit may affect many interests in
•he country. But there are many questions on
which mature deliberation, perhaps, might be necessary ;
the introduction of molasses duty free into this country, and
the spirit duties—( Hear, hear)—were questions which he
trusted the Noble Lord would take into further consideration,
because he was doubtful as to the effect which the reduction of
the duty on them may produce. Now, in the first place, in
speaking of the \Vest India colonies, we must remember that
there is a great expense attendant upon the imigration of free
lab turers. There is a great expense attendant upon
the introduction of natives from the East Indies; and
there is a far greater expense in bringing Africans from
the coast of Africa, but still this ought not to discourage
your encouraging this immigration to the colonies ; and in
saying this much, let me observe that you ought to accompany.
the introduction' cOl'onies. of native labouier's. with 'Ati
adequate supply of females.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) If
you determine to attempt a supply of Coolies for the West In-
dies, for the purpose of promoting the ultimate success of yo it
plan, it will be of the utmost importance that there should be
a due proportion of females introduced into the country.
Entertaining, therefore, these views upon the subject of ad-
mitting, sugar, the produce of slave labour, into competition
with free-labour sugar, I do hope the Noble Lord and his
Government will reserve to themselves the power of here-
efter considering what arc the equivalent advantages which
he will give to the West Indies.—( Hear, hear.) But I was
goose on to say that I did not feel myself justified in enteri .g
into a combination for the purpose of displacing the Noble
Lord and his Government within six weeks after the day on
which he had assumed office.—(Hear, hear.) But, says the
Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, you may safely enter into
such a combination, and the Noble Lord will still retain office.
Well, I will nut pretend to know what course the Noble Lord
will adopt, but. this I will say, that I think the Noble Lord,
under the circumstances in which lie is placedLunder the cir
cumstanees in which he accepted power—and being defeated
now on so important a measure of his commercial policy as the
present, would, I cannot say give up power, but, in my opinion,
lie would be fully justified in doing so.—( Hoar, hear.)
Those, then, who :compel him to abdicate power ought to
exercise their discretion, and, in doing so, they are bound
to ask themselves whether in the event of success they are pre-
pared to undertake the Administration of public affairs. There
are circumstances in the history of every country where that
question must be asked by those who enter into combinations
for the purpose of displacing a prevailing Government.—( Hear,
hear.) Two Governments have existed within the last six
weeks. Shall a third he formed ? Upon what principle ?
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Shall their be a restoration of
the late Government?—(Cries of " No, no.") I entirely
concur in that opinion.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) I do
think that the late Government, having withdrawn from office
in consequence of a signification on the part of the House,
tantamount to a vote of want of confidence in its policy the
defeat of the Government who succeeded it by a combination
effected by the former within six weeks after its determination,
without any prospect of future success, would be discreditable
to the country.—(Cheers.) I believe the country could
have little confidence in those who had thrown theat
out, and therefore, entertain ng these views, I have
come to the conclusion that it would not be for the public
advantage to enter into a combination for the sake of displacing
the present Government. The protection party,'with whom I
am prepared to speak with all respect, at any rate cannot be
surprised that they themselves could not take office, or form a
Government, with any prospect of advantage or success ; nor
are they, perhaps, prepared to enter into a combination for de-
feating the present occasion with a view of recalling those to
power who have just left office. —(Hear, hear.) I soy, then,
that what has taken place, seeing the:manifest divergence of
opinion exhibited on this measure amongst those who were the
supporters of the late Government, only confirms me in the
opinion that defeating the Noble Lord upon this commercial
measure would be attended by no good results, and at once I
admit that I am not prepared to take the consequences of such
a conclusion as that I allude to—(Cheers)—seeing the posi-
tion of parties compels those who have taken part in the public
services of the country to consider the question of what
will be the result of displacing the Government which
has now held power for six weeks. At the same
time it it could be shown that a Government
could be formed which could permanently resist the
introduction of slave labour sugar by those who, like my Hon.
Friend, sincerely think, that at all hazards the introduction of
articles, the produce of slatieelabow, should afilie it
WOiig b‘t digivent 41415 04t, j have wriow, 4404 9111elloa,

r in the ptesent state of public opinion, the formation of any Go-
vernment could permanently cominue the present system. If
indeed you could lay down the principle that you would, under
no circumstances whatever, consume the produce of slave la-
bour, and you could hold out to the colonies the assurance that
that principle would be ddhered to, it would be a
different matter; but is it likely or probable
that a Government could be formed either by any
party or any combinatian of parties, which could hope to per-
manently maintain the principle; that articles the produce of
slave labour shall not be admitted into this country. Hear,
hear.) Let me then observe that the Noble Lord, the Mem-
ber tor Lynn does not down the principle that articles the
produce of slave labour shall not be admitted. The Noble
Lord does not even lay down the principles that we will main-
tain the stars, goo, that we will admit cotton that is now used
in this country, that we will admit tobacco that is now used in
this country, but that we wili go no further, that we will per-
mit no further violation of the principle which tend to con-
tinue slavery.—( Hear, hear.) The motion of the Noble
Lord is in fact similar to the resolution, which
was moved by my Noble Friend the Member for
Liverpool, in 1841. He wished to continue the discriminating
duties on slave -labour sugar, because the admission into this
country of that article depended, in a great measure, upon
the supply of sugar the produce of free labour, (Hear,
hear.) The effect of the Noble Lord's resolution is,
that under certain circumstances—if the prices were
greatly increased—you would admit slave-grown sugar
into the market under certain modifications-. What assurance
could merchants have of the permanence of any arrangement
which did not contemplate the difficulties which might arise
from a scarcity, natural or artificial. The estimates which he
has formed might be less favourable at some period than they
are at the present moment, and in such a case the planters
would have reason to fear that the people of this country would
not tolerate the high prices.—(Cries of " -No, no.") Well, if
yod say " N0,.n0, are. you prepared to affirm, as permanent, a
resolution, be the state of the market or the occasion
what it may, that you will not admit slave-labour sugar.—
( Hear, hear.) But that is not what you are prepared to:affirm,
and you do not give any assurance to the colonists that they
may safely rely upon your permanency of legislation upon this
question ; and you, therefore, bring doubt and insecurity into
the minds of the capitalist and traders. The Noble Lord has
endeavoured to make a permanent adjustment of this question,
and the colonists, as well as all those in the trade, attach the
utmost importance to a permanent adjustment, as it
will enable the capitalist to know with what he has
to contend. He will know, moreover, that there
will be extended to him a qualified protection,
and that at the end of a certain period there must be free
competion.—( Hear, hear.) Unless you admit the principle of
the Noble Lord, that slave labour at some period must be ad-
mitted to compete with free labour, you cant ot attain perma-
nency in any measure you adopt. When I proposed to reduce
the duty on free labour, I did not hope to introduce a permanent
treasure ; had I remained in power it was my inten-
tion to have proposed the continuance of the sugar duties.
for one year, in order to give the experiment a farther trial.
Hut I doubt exceedingly that this House could be prevailed to
pass a permanent law which did not contemplate at some period
the free admission of slave-grown sugar. Any other proposal
would have been suiject to the disadvantage of being
a temporary measure, and the slave holder, seeing
the state of public opinion in the country—seeing
the division of parties, and that the subject was o.ie
ot continual controversy—never would abandon the hope
that at no distant period he would be admitted to the same ad-
vantages as the cultivator with tree labour. He would not
fail to cherish that hope. The slaveholder in Brazil would
nourish the same hope, he would be constantly expecting that
at no distant day he would be admitted to compete with
free labour, whilst the capitalist in free labour would
not know whether it would be safe to invest his capital in the
cultivation of the Otaheitan cane, which promises so many
great advantages to the producer I believe, on the whole,
that, in the present state of public opinion, there may be a
chance of temporal., contribution to the promotion of
slavery, but I believe it will be only temporary, and that
the evil of continuing the uncertainty far out-
weighs any consideration of such a character. I will
not enter into a detail of the plan of the Noble Lord ; my
earnest hope is, that his :great object will be to make a final
settlement of the question.—( Hear, hear.) I do hope that he
will listen with attention to every proposal which, doing away
with a destructive duty, may have for its object the intention
of enabling free-labour sugar to compete with slave sugar. I
do not enter into details I do not wish to
embarrass him. My support will be of a bond fide kind,
and he will feel that he is best ensuring the success of a
great principle by enablir g those who have nothing but their
labour successfully to compete with those who continue the
traffic in slaves. —( Hear, hear.) Sir, entertaining, therefore,
this opinion, avoiding any discussion on the details, entertaining
a sincere belief that at no remote period, if this measure be
obstructed now, that it must be ultimately earrried—( Cheers)
—believing that if any one is to carry it there is none better
entitled to the credit attached to success than the Noble Lord.
—(Cheers)—l am come to the resolution, not, as I said
before, without hesitation and without reluctance, to give my
support to the principle of his measure, and in supporting the
principle of that measure it is my resolution not to embarrass
him by a vexatious opposition.•—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. P. MILES, amidst some confusion, moved the adjourn-
ment of the debate, after which _

Sir T. ACLAND rose, and said that he did not wish to
persuade the House either to come to a decision at once, or
adjourn the discussion, but he must beg for the indulgence of,
the House, whilst he said that in his opinion the Right Hon.
Baronet • had come to 'the"determination announced by him
solely from a consideration of the state of parties
in that House—( Vociferous cheering from the pro-
tectionists)—and of the way in which the present
Government might be affected by his vote upon this question.
—(Continued cheering from the same parties). His Noble
Friend opposite was either right or wrong in his policy, bat
the question on which they had to decide was one of the
greatest moment, and he ( Sir T. Acland), for his own part,
nisclaimed, in the strongest manner, any wish to promote the
interests or views of any party in that House by the vote which
he intended to give on thi: question.--( Hear, hear.) He dis-
claimed, in the strcngest manner, being influenced by any
hostile opposition to the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern-
ment, in giving the vote which he intended to record on this
question. Indeed, he was prepared, in homely phrase, to give
the present Government .‘ a fair trial and no favour." (Hear,
hear.) He felt that the Noble Lord opposite was actuated by
feelings of the most upright character when he proposed the
measure. He believed that the Right lion. Bart., the mem-
ber for Tamwortb, in giving his vote on this question was in-
fluenced by considerations as to the existence of the
Government. He would wish to ask whether the wishes
of the parties who were thought to be admitted to a
voice in that House had been considered, and whether
the great ma.ses of the people of this country were admitted
into their councils. He contended that they were not admitted
to a share in the councilg of the nation.—( Hear, hear.) It. had
been the policy of this country during the last thirty years to do
all in their power to put down the abominable slave trade at
any and every cost, and he could not understand how they now
consistently adopt a proposition to countenance and encourage
the slave traffic in human beings.—(Hear, hear. )
Mr. P. BORTH WI CK amidst great laughter and con-
fusion, seconded the motion for the adjournment of the
debate.

The SPEAKER having put the question that the House do
now adjourn.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that as it was not likely that the
debate could be ecncluded that night he would support the mo-
tion for an adjournment of the debate, which had been pre-
viously moved by an Hon. Alember.
After a few words from Mr. MILES the debate was ad-
journed.
Mr. EWART withdrew the motion of which he had given
notice.

Mr. HUNIE also consented to withdraw his motion.
SUPPLY.

The report of this Committee o•as brought up and agreed to.
DEODANDS ABOLITION (No. 2) BILL.
On the motion of Mr. BOUVERIE this Bill was read a
second time.

BATHS AND WASHHOUSES (IRELAND).
Mr. PIGOT obtained leave to bring in a Bid for promoting
the voluntary establishment in boroughs, cities, and towns, in
Ireland, of Public Baths and Wa.thhouses.
The Bill was then read a first and second time, and
The House adjourned at a quarter-past one o'clock.