The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-29 00:00:00

relent. for every Member to refuse to serve on a Commttee
h was not immediately connected with his own lesedslity: .
Well then the Hon. Gentleman puts his case entirely,en this.
ground. He does rot say it is inconvenient for him tcrettende
that he shall have art opportunity of atieeding at some future.
time, but he distinctly gives the Committee to underatand, .
that he will not serve on any Committee unless connected with
Iri.b. affairs. What then was the House to do under thesenir-
cumstances ? Suppose that the Hon. Member had dei.'ed the
He use, and said he would serve on no Committee
whatsoeser, it is perfectly clear what the decision Of-
the House would be. Fut the answer of the Hone.
Gentleman came to the same thing. It was considered -
for the advantage of the public that he should be selected
to perform alarticular duty, and it would be admitted that the
Committee of Selection had performed its duty carefully and
forbearingly towards the different Members. The House
having by its resolution entrusted to the Committee of Selec-
tion the power of choosing Members for the different services,
the question would be. whether the House was or was not to sup--
port the act of its Committee Now what did the Hon. end
Learned Member for York say in answer to the charge against
the Ho i. Member for Limerick, of neglecting his duty in thin
respect—of having disobeyed the order of the House, and there-
fee e of being guilty of contempt. The Hon. and Learned
Member for Cork said that there was no intentional disrespect
on the part of the Hon. and Learned Member for Limerick.
He said that he had a strong impression of the validity of his
objection, and that lie was, therefore, justified in actirg as he
had done, and the Hort. and Learned Member for Cork called
on the House to pause ,Isefore it came to any resolution ex-
pressive cf its determination eo vindicate its authority against
the 11,n. Member for Limeries.
Hon.
wA,Teimnbethrefo! Limerick
tek
place.rin
could the !louse believe that the ..!-1
vas not perfectly aware that he was a !Memberthe whole
the House of
d on
hotle eeml 12th of; ire
Commons, and that that House represent.
Was he not perfeetlay,
he not
poefrfttheetiryeasowlatti
il n h
at he was not,
Febsuary, 1846; w
to all intents and eurposes. a party. to that reselut,iewnats and
was the Hen. Member for Limerick ignorant that ishis
duty, as e Msmleer of that House, to obey it
!-thht they must be careful its o: dens ?
of taking any steps
But the Fen. and Learned Member for Cork said that t.hey.
must r -,,de--that
on tlt occasion ; and the Hon. and Learned MembeHene,,-
gest°3 that, they might rot here power to interfere in 131
manner proposed to be proceeded in as against the Hon. and
Lea, ec.l Member for Lime-ick for a breach of the orders of the
House. He was astonished that the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Cork should advance these argument.; for, in the first
place, that was a power invested in the House by the Act of
Urnon ; and, in the next place, there was a new power which
was exercised by the Committee of Selection—powers of a
stringent character, which, until this year, ,had never been
given them. Was the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork
net aware that, by the third article of the Act of Union, it
Kingdom
eParliament,ertcertain
.no of bGe trr neoa
ft b r Britainis
' was enacted that the said United Kingdom was represented in
oneß and
it
he
nee
tn
Actdo f the same
Unionusna imteeda
shtyil ;eel
dbt
ell.t;ees
aPwriadhe:e
formed part of the House of Commons in Ireland, became
merged with the existing House of Commons. Now
she
thought the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork would not
dispute this proposition, that immediately after these Members
were inesrported with the English House of Commons, they
became subject to all the liabilities which a Member of the
House was exposed to previous to the Act of Union. He was
really at a loss to undersiand what the Hon. and Learned
Member meant by saying that Lhey had no statutabte power
given to them to proceed to extremities against refractory
Members. Now he had always understood that public bodies
and functionaries like the House of Comnions, to whom im-
portant trusts were commttted, might enforce the obedience of
their Members when it was necessary for the due performance
of their functions. He did not mean to say, however,
.that
this power was expressly conferred on them by any Ant of
the Legislature, or by any other authority than that of the
House itself; but a body like the House of Commons would
be perfectly powerless and perfectly helpless without
it had the right of enforcing obedience from its
Members. It was clear, therefore, that they waited
no Act of the Legislature to confer this power
upon themselves. The House had to discharge high
and important duties to the country, and, in the performance
of those duties, it was necessary to delegate to its Members
certain minor duties to be performed on their part, and without
this power it was impossible the business of the House could
be conducted. If this power did not exist, and Members
were allowed to refuse obedience to the orders of the House,
there would be a stop put to all the proceedings of the inferior
House of Parliament. The Hon. and Learned Member for
Cork hal also stated, that the Committee of Selection had
pcwers given to it which were more stringent than the
powers previously given to a Committee of the House ; but it
must be remembered, that the House in its wisdom thought
proper to give these powers to the Committee of Selection.
He felt it impossible to get over the necessity which was evi-
dent, in order to perform these duties, without delegating those.
powers to the Committee of Selection. The Hon. Member for
Limerick had refused obedience to that authority which be had
himself been a party to recognise. He had done this delibe-
rately ; there was no inadvertence. He in his piece in that
House had refrained from endeavouring to excuse himself. He
positively refused to furnish any certificate to the Committee of
Selection of his inability, but had exhibited a persevering re-
sistance to the authority of the House. Under the circum-
stances, he (the Solicitor-General) thought there was no other
course to pursue than adopt the resolution of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Oxford. He was the last to be the advocate of severe
measures against any individual, especially an Hon. Member of
that House ; but he could not see there was any other course
to pursue, for it was impossible for the House to support its
authority if it were to be resisted, as it now was, by the Hon.
Member for Limerick. He repeated, then, that he saw no
other course in this instance, than to take measures, which, he
regretted to say, might prove eventually severe in heir conse-
quences to that Hon. Gentleman, and to approve of the reso-
lution which the House was now called upon to adopt. He
certainly should support the resolution.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE could not help feeling that the House
should not have entered upon this subject at this particular
moment. Ho felt this regret, because he saw that it appeared
to him that if these measures were carried out, he and the
friends who acted with him would be compelled to approve of
the whole of the conduct of the Hon. Member for Limerick, and
very esibly, at last, he and his friends would be compelled to
take lota ures which would have the effect of very seriously
impeding the business of that House. He regretted it for
another reason; for, if it were carried out, there would arise a
stir( ng feeling itx Ireland, that it savoured—it might be perhaps
tro strong a word to say—of persecution—( Oh, ob)—that this
House were visiting the Hon. Gentleman with enmity—at any
rate, with hostility—for the course of conduct which he bad
thought it his duty to pursue in Ireland.—(oh, oh.) He re-
gretted the House should adopt such a course, and he felt it
to be his duty to warn it of the result which would attend it.
The House had certainly the power of doing a great deal of
mischief in connexion with this matter—( Oh, oh, and laughter)
—but if the House had the power to punish any Member
for non-attendance at Railway Committees, he advised
it to pause before it exercised such a power.
Every one who had sat upon a railway committee must have
felt the conviction, after having attended the business of that
Committee, and gone into the various matters of detail, that it
would be utterly impossible for any Hon. Member, after hav-
ing his attention occupied the whole day in affairs brought be-
fore the Committee, to come down to that House and give his
deliberate attention to measures of public advantage to the
country that claimed his attention. If no other good arose out
of this question than to turn the attention of Hon. Members to
the mode in which Hon. Members conducted the private busi-
ness of the House, it would bee great advantage. He would
ask, what would the result be if the resolution against his Hon.
Friend the Member for Limerick was carried into effect? The
great majority of the people of Ireland were with that Hon.
Member, and if the resolution were carried against him, the
hostile feelings of the Irish people would be raised against this
House, as being unfit to make laws for Ireland. How do they
propose to mend the matter ? Why by withdrawing from this
House by force the Honourble Member for Limerick.
Did they think the Irish people would have greater
confidence in the wisdom of that House when
they found that one of their representatives was forcibly re-
strained from attending to their interests in the House, and
compelled to eat a bad mutton-chops in the purlieus of that
House? They would be doing a vast injury to the best
interests of Ireland. They intended to order his Hon. Friend
to attend at the bar of the House ; the resolution they were
now deliberating upon would then be read, and finally he would
be placed in the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms. He found,
however, from the motion paper that his Hon. Friend had a
series of resolutions to propose which would open up the whole
state of Ireland. That was a subject upon which be thought
the Hon. Gentleman ought to have an opportunity of expres-
sing his opinion. His Hon. and Learned Friend( Mr. O'Connell)
had a motion on the paper that the representation of the county
of Cork should be increased by two additional members. Would
it not be unfair that the people of Limerick should be deprived
of expressing their opinion on this matter, by being deprived
of the assistance of their representative ? Another subject of
great importance was, that the Hon. Member for Limerick
would be prevented giving his vote en Friday next, to prevent
the passing of the CoerriGa Bill.
_, n. But above all and more than
all, if the Howe pursued the proposed course they would exas-
perate the minds of the people of Ireland. He would hope the
House would not persist in the course. Let them reek to gain
the hearts of the Irish people not by an union, but by kindness
and generous feeling. A question of that kind was of far
more importance than questions of the rules of that House.
Mr. WARBURTON wished to express his strong disa
proval, in the most stringent terms, of the conduct of the Hof;
Member for Limerick, in the contempt he had shown for the
rules of that House. It was proposed that the Hon. Gentle-
man
should be committed to the custody of the Serjt at:
ean
Arms, and eventually he might find himself committedto-the
Tower. He disapproved of the course it was proposed to be
taken. He did not dispute the authority of the House, but be
did not think it was a matter of expediency to carry that power
into effect. If for every foolish reason given by Hon. Members
of the House not to serve upon Committees, the House were to
order them into custody, he did not know hew many foolish
Members would seek such unenviable notoriety. The real
question stood—what did they propose to gain by following up
the rules of the house ? and secondly, what would they lose if the
rules of the House were not followed up ? What did they gain
by forcibly compelling a Member to sit as a member of Come
mittee ? Why he would enter the Committee-room, he would
take his seat, but he would pay no attention to the business be-
fore .he Committee, because he was there against his will. If a
Member should say be did not wish to be on any Committee,
was that Member a likely person to attend to the business of
the Committee? He did not see that any good was likely to
result from forcing any Member to attend on a Committee. The
course he proposed was, that if any Member should choose to
give a speciat reason for not attending on a Committee, that
they, according to their wish, should not be compelled to at-
tea, but that the Special Committee should be directed to re-
port to the House the non-attendance of such Members, with
their special reasons Ix not attending. He did not know
what would be the result of such a report of thetanead
felt attendance of an Irish Member ; but he tatt:ndance
that if the Select Committee were to report the non-attendance
would
of an English Member without some speciasltitrue
earesg.in
not be again elected to represent hiseon
that W. Smith
Parlia-
ment. He should move as an amendment,
of this House, who in
O'Brien, Esq., and any otheerni
memberon shall refuse to serve upon
the course of the present
smight claim to be exempted on
Committees appointed,
special grounds; and that it be an instruction to the Select
Committee to report to
the Howe the absence of such Mem-
ber, and the special grounds for such non-attendance .
Mr. BROIHERTON having seconded the amendment,
which was read from the chair,
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he differed from the Hon- Mem-
ber entirely as to the epithets he applied to the Hon. Member
for Limerick. He had spoken of his reasons as being foolish;
he (Mr. O'Connell) thought that the people of Ireland would
approve of his conduct; they would consider that be had been
acting with a view to meet the wishes of his constituents. He
differed also in another particular from an Hon. Member. He
(Mr. J. O'Connell) had been a member of a Committee for the
last fortnight, an,l there was every probability of his continuing
so for three months longer. He considered that he was a most
unwilling member of the Committee, but be thought that he
could at least take the credit, without assuming toe much, of
saying that he had not neglected the business of theZsmm itee,
although he was in attendance very much against
inclina-
tion. lie Gentleman, did not think that the Right Hon. the
fairly Attorney-General, had met the argment of the Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Cork. The especial statute for
of English Members had not been
compelling the attendance_
extended to the Irish Members, and that objection had not
been satisfactorily 'disposed' of. The Hon. Gentleman then
alluded to the Union, and said that Ireland was not a consent-