The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-14 00:00:00

any instructions or any remonstrance from his cOnsti-
Waits on this measure. Both working men at.d mas-
ters seemed to think that their interest would not suffer

by the proposed alterations, but that it would rather im•

- .
prove under the influence of free trade.
Colonel ROLLESTON could not agree with the in-
FerencQs which had been made by the Won. Member for
Nottingham on the condition of the frame-work-knitters.
If this class bad been reduced to such a condition,
having the protection which they at present enjoyed,
surely the reduction of that protection one-half would
not be the most effectual mode of improving.
their condition. How such a conclusion could

be come to by his Honourable Friend he was
at a loss to determine. So much he had to say with
regard to the Hon. Gentleman's remarks. He would
now apply a few words to the Right Hon- Gentleman
at the head of the Government in reference to what
they would all allow was the greatest interest in this
country. This was not, perhaps, the time to go into
the subject in detail, but he thought that the Right Hen.
Gentleman and the Noble Baronet should not interfere
with that interest, unless after the most mature and
grave deliberation. He trusted that the House would
enter into the consideration of the subject in a fair,
full, and open manner.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. MILNES rose for the purpose of saying that
if the Hon. Member for Leicester did rot divide upon
this question, he (Mr. Milnes) would—(Laughter)—and
he would do an, because he considered that the present
was a favourable opportunity for the landed gentry of
England to clear themselves from the unjust accusations
which had been made against them.---(Hear, hear.)
Those accusations were to this effect, that because pro-
tection had been removed from agriculture, they were
determined to make up the deficiency of their incomes
by inflicting upon the manufacturing interests duties
which would operate upon them most prejudiciously.
He believed that the frame-knit workers' trade was at
present in a most critical condition in consequence of
the suspense as to the settlement of the present
measure of the Government in favour of cheap food;
and he believed that as soon as that measure was passed
into a law, the individuals employed in that trade would
so far recover themselves as to be able to compete with
the foreigner.
After a few words from Mr. PACK, which were in-
audible in the gallery,
Sir G. CLERK said that Hon. Members bad drawn a
very melancholy picture of the frame-knit-workers, but
the House mu,t bear i mind that that state had
been brought about by the present system of protection.
The Hon. Member for Leicester had stated that, a very
short time ago, that trade exported goods to the value of
1,000,000/. sterling per annum ; but that at present the
amount was reduced to 400,000/. ; and he bad also ad-
mitted that that decrease was in a great measure attri-
butable to their character, which had been lost in the
foreign markets by their dishonest practices. Now, the
only method in his (Sir G. Clerk's) opinion of improving
the condition of that branch of manufacture was by ex-
tending their foreign trade, and the measures now pro-
posed by the Government had a tendency to increase
the amount of their export,. Under those circumstances
he was perfectly certain that he should not be actin.!
right unless he resisted the amendment of the Hon.
Member.

Mr. STRUTT rose for the purpose of stating that
the object of the meeting of frame-knit-workers which
had lately been held at Nottingham, had been misre-
presented. The object of that meeting was to petition.
for the repeal of the corn-laws and the general free-
dom of trade. The ground which those manufacturers
took was this, they were placed in such a position by
the operation of the corn laws, that it was
impossible to compete with the foreign manufac-
tures, and the consequence was that they were
reduced to their present lamentable position. Their
object, therefore, in meeting was not to petition for any
protection whatever, but simply to ask to be placed upon
the same footing as the manufacturers of other nations,
with whom they would then be able to compete.
Mr. W. ELLIS said that he entirely concurred in the
observations that had been made by the Hon Member in
reference to this petition. He (Mr. Ellis) was cognizant
of many of the facts that had been stated in reference to
this subject. He had himself canvassed the town of
Leicester, and during that canvass he had been told tales
of distress the most horrifying that it was possible to
conceive.

Sir J. HOBHOUSE said there was not a year in
which he did not hear those complaints of distress in
Nottingham, and therefore he was compelled to believe
that there must be something vicious in the system
which prolonged such a state of things.

Mr. -MILE'S said he had heard the Hon. Member
opposite state that the result of this measure would be
that the people of this country would receive an
abundant supply of bread. Now he had been many
years in Nottingham, and he should say, as the result of
his experience, that the Saxons would throw into this
country such a supply of their manufacutures as would
materially injure the manufactures of this country.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said, that in his opinion, the
Saxons had as much to do with the matter as the New
Zealanders.—(Laughter.) Neither did be believe that
the trade at present was in the bad state in which it had
been represented. Nothing certainly could be more
dreadful, more miserable, or more degraded, than the
condition of the operatives ; for this reason, that they
never got a fair share of the profite. Hon. Gentlemen
might suppose that by raising the duty from 20 to 40 p r
cent. they would be bettering the condition of the opera-
tives. It was no such thing.—(Hear, hear.) He knew
very well, that while the manufacturers were getting
18s. per dozen for hose, the operatives engaged in fabri-
cating them did not get more than Bs. per dozen, which,
decidedly, was not a fair share of the profit —(Cries of
" Hear, hear.") Now, why was that the case? Simply
because there were middlemen, who stepped in between
the manufacturer and the operative.—(Hear, hear.)
Let them do away with that system, and they would
need no protection.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord INGESTRE rose amid loud cries of "divide."
He wished to ask if, in the meetings referred to, held at
Leicester and Nottingham, there had been a single ope-
rative present ?
After a few words from Mr. FREWEN and Lcrd
WORSLEY, which did not reach the gallery, owing to
the loud cries fora division,

Lord G. BENTINCK begged to be permitted to say
one word in favour of the hose-weavers. Hon. Gentle-
men would have the House believe that part of their dis-
tress was owing to protection.—(Hear, hear.) Now he
should like t,) know, if protection were the bane
of the hose-weavers, how it came that the Saxons, who
were also protected, not only maintained their position
in the market, but were also driving the English article
out of the market ?—(Llear, hear.) The accounts
given by Mr. Mac Gregor with regard to the manufac-
ture of Saxony proved that they could there afford to
make stockings at 3d. per pair. His Hon. Friend the
Member for Finsbury had told the House, that in this
country they could only make them at Bs. per dozen pairs ;
and he (Lord G. Bentinck) wished to know how
the stocking-makers in Nottingham were to compete
with the Saxons at a protective duty of 10 per cent.
His Noble Friend (the Member for Linco:nshire) came
to that House to seek for protection for agriculture, to
benefit the English labourer, and yet he expressed his
readiness to try an experiment on those half-starved
stocking-makers of Leicester. Did not his Hon. Frit•nd
(the Member for Leicester) tell the House that there
were more than 100,000 people in the stocking trade ;
and was his Hon. Friend prepared to try free-trade ex-
periments with the 100,000 poor stocking-makers ?
After a few words, in explanation, from Lord
WORSLEY,

Strangers were ordered to withdraw, when there ap-
peared—
For the amendment lO2
Against it
Majority for the Government} Q.
proposition
Mr. BANKS considered it was not expedient that
they should proceed further that night, and, therefore,
he should move the adjournment of the question.
Mr. LABOUCHERE complained that trade and
commerce were suffering in consequence of the Tariff
being unsettled. What he would suggest was, that
they should postpone those items to which there was
any opposition, and go through the rest of the Tariff. The
former were very few, and this arrangemeat would do
much to facilitate business.
Lord JOHN MANNERS protested against saying
that the trade and commerce were suffering from the op-
position of 120 Members on his (the protection) side of
the House.

ir GEORGE GREY coincided with the suggestion
of Mr. Labouchere.

Mr. TRELAWNEY was of opinion that the oppo-
sition of Hon. Gentlemen was only to occasion delay, so
as to hinder the Right Hon. Baronet from getting the
rev.•nue.

1 --Si:li. PEEL said, all the consideration he had given
to this measure was for the interest of the country.
The arrangement made was, that they should take the
second reading of the Corn Bill as early as possible, and
he should wish, if it were possible, that they should
commence the second reading on Tuesday. They would
go on on Monday to complete the Tariff, as proposed
with respect to the corn laws. Having made that ar-
rangement, he confessed that he was very unwilling to
depart from it, if they had any prospect of completing
the debate on Monday. He repeated that, as far as the
public interest was concerned, it would be the best that
could be done to go on with the Tariff on Monday, and
the Corn Bill on Tuesday.
_Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said that as far as he
was concerned, he had not the lesst objection to the pro-
position of the Hon. Baronet. He and his friends were
not prepared to discuss the Tariff, and they bad as yet
allowed it to pass through the Committee without ahy
objection. There were however certain articles to
which ha wished to state an objection, such as silks,
sthpiarints. and French brandy, and the debate would more
°°OlaPY she space of one night.
Sir B. PEEL said that he trusted that it was possible
to finish this debate on Monday, at any rate they would
continue the Tariff GA n•nday, and if they were able they
likelyw oLulldrlpo
JOHNroteefo(ir with the
stchsoetnECLuErtelai'aßliltliiatnetrTietsutsecosedrmatyehd.e
feariumn[rrye
if the Tariff were continued as early as pos,ible lli,
was pursuaded that many of his lion. Friends, who had
motions for Tuesday, would readily waive their right, in
order to allow the Right Hon. Baronet's proposition to
be carried into effect.
Lord SANDON made a few observations, whieh in
the confusion did not reach the gsllery.
OUT-PENSIOANERS PAYMENT (GREENWICH
D CHELSEA) BILL
On the question being put as to going into. Committeeon
this Bill, Captain PECHELL rose and objected to
their
• lguorilnyg
a s throughthe RCi
Right
Hon.mitt e
Committee at
Gentleman,tha t l ate hour,the Secretaryand prtl c uat-
jNeireatre,fhtandisaffßoirlld.ed the House no explanation on the sub-
Mr.wuul u 0 tSIDNEYpersist
iHEßßEßTnopposing thecommittal hop edthe
Gallantf thOeOfficer
d,
for it was of the utmost importance that the Bill should
pass at as early a period as possible. It was not pro-