The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-23 00:00:00

PUGILISM.

ALEXANDER KEENE AND T. WELSH, FOR 100/. ASIDE.
—The " passage of arms" between these knights of the
knuckle, which has for some weeks past been the topic
of debate and difference of opinion in the little world of
pugilism, was on Tuesday brought to an undeniable con-
clusion at Eight Mile Bottom, 56 miles from the metro-
polis, in the direction of Newmarket. The battle-field
of Tuesday has been in years bygone the scene of several
contests of greater or lesser note ; the most remarkable
being that in 1805, when John Gully (afterwards the
owner of Hare Park, hard by, subsequently M.P. for
Pontefract, and now a leading turfite) defeated the giant
Gregson for the championship—something more in those
days than an empty or a questionable title. But we must
hasten from the past to the present. The lads who on
Tuesday stripped to do battle are both known as public
gladiators ; Keene, who numbers twenty-two summers,
has conquered Wm. Cain, of Leicester, and Joe Phelps,
of Brighton, his height 5 feet 8 inches, his weight 9st.
41b. Welsh, his opponent, is better known as Young
Sambo, a name justified by his skin and wool, which are
certainly more African than Caucasian. Sambo is
twenty-nine years old, measures 5 feet si inches, and
weighs 9st. 51b., his frame being altogether more thick-
set, and his arms more muscular than his lengthy adver-
sary. At a few minutes before eleven o'clock, the select
few who had been whirled down the Eastern Counties
line, per special train, " under the special care" (as the
tickets specified) " of Jem Burn and Henry Whelpdale,
Esquire," were gratified by seeing the men shake hands
and stand up. Barnash and Jem Turner attended to
Sambo, while Robert Fuller and Hannan esquired Keene.
The artistic style of the dark-coloured athlete was
remarkable, and the first few left-handed attempts of his
long-reached opponent were stopped with such elegance
as to excite general applause. After several dodges and
feints, however, Keene, by a sudden spring, in the
manner of the late Young Dutch Sam, popped in such a
sharp rap with his left over Sambo's guard, and reach-
ing his right eyebrow, left his mark. This was ominous,
as, in addition to youth, length, and freshness, Keene
had the advantage of both his optics, while it is well
known, Sambo's left eye never possessed the gift of
sight. His skill, nevertheless, having in former battles
countervailed this defect, his friends were still confident.
A few more seconds, and the men got near, smart ex-
changes took place, and a rally ended by Keene again
showing he could get at Sambo's head, and finally send-
ing him down with a right-handed blow on the ribs, as
he was jumping backwards. The second round decided
the question in all but partisans minds. Keene again
over-reached Sambo in the counterhitting, getting home
most effectually. Welsh again down. In the fourth
round Keene bad his opponent at all points, and Sambo
turned round in confusion, and actually walked to his
corner. Keene, with great forbearance, opened his
hands, and did not follow him. The next round brought
the battle to a close. Sambo received so heavily, and
returned so short, that it was clear his vision was seri-
ously interfered with, the sponge was therefore in hu-
manity thrown, the useless punishment of a brave fellow
being a thing to be avoided in a case where the display
of science, rather than that of mere animal endurance
was looked for by those who backed the losing man.

NOTICE TO MARINERS.
Trieste, Je 13, 148.
Sir,—The blockade of this port was yestunerday evBening
officially announced, signed jointly by Admiral Bua on
the part of the Venetians, to commence on the 15th
inst. against Austrian, and on the 15th proximo against
foreign vessels.
(Signed) GEORGE MOORE, Agent to Lloyd's.
Captain G. A. Halstead, R.N., Secretary, Lloyd's.

folio • g notice to the
MONEY ORDERS.—The
public, and instructions to all postmasters,win and letter receivers, issuing
nd
money
orders, was posted at the General Yost-office yester-
day :—" On and atter the 6th July, the post-offices at the
under-mentioned places will be opened for the issue
payment of money orders :—Camborne, Cornwall
.poanntd
y-Prid, Glamorganshire ; Ventnor, Isle of Wight ; Coat-
bridge, Lanarkshire ; Dairy, Ayrshire ; Johnstone, lien-
frewshire ; Castle Island, Kerry ; Glenarm, Antrim.
HATCHING EXTRAORDDIART.—Some time ago, a
boy in Portsoy had got a hen's egg from some of his
companions, and unknown to his parents, carried it
about with him in his bosom. One morning lately, he
astonished his people by exhibiting to them a chicken
which he had thus brought forth. The chicken was
lively enough, and may yet live to repay the lad's
paternal care by a numerous progeny.—Banffshire
Journal. ,

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, June 22.
Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
APPOINTMENT OF BISHOPS.

Lord FEVERSHAM presented a petition from the
clergy and laity of the Church of England, praying their
Lordshipl' attention to the Act of Henry VIII., by
which the selection and nomination of persons to fill the
office of bishop is secured. The petitioners prayed
that the power of nomination should continue in the
Crown, but considered that in consequence of recent pro-
ceedings the power should be more defined, and that the
Church should not he deprived ef the privilege of malting
objections on the score of heresy, or other disqualifica-
tion, in open court.
GAME-LAWS.

The Duke of RICHMON D moved the second reading
of the Killing of Hares Bill.

The Duke‘Of BUCCLEUCII opposed the measure as
a side-wind attempt to get rid of the game-laws.
After a few words from the Earl of CARDIGAN and
Lord BEAUIIONT in opposition to the Bill,
Earl GREY said that the tax on game-licenses was
imposed solely for purposes of revenue, and certainly
a more legitimate source of revenue could not be ima-
gined. But there was a groat difference between a man
who shot for his amusetnFut, and the man who shot to
defend his property from the depredations of wild ani-
mals. The measure would scarcely affect the revenue
at all, and therefore he hoped their Lordships would
pass the Bill.
The Bill was then read a second time.
RAILWAYS.
The Marquis of SALISBURY asked if the Railway
Commissioners had determined whether or not the use
of locomotives should be prohibited in large towns and
cities?

The Earl of GRANVILLE was understood to say
that the subject was under consideration.
Lord STANIAX presented several petitions from the
cle
appointment
oyprayingnt for an alteration in the law regulating
the of . bishops; also several petitions from
various lodges of Odd Felluws, praying for the legaliza-
tion of their society.

SPAIN.
Lord STANLEY wished to put a question to the
Noble Marquis opposite relative to the recent corre-
spondence bet eeenehe Spanish Government and the
Government of her Majesty. Afier the Spanish Go-
vcrnmeut had taken the very strange step, which per-
haps could not be justified under any circumstances, of
dismissing Sir H. Bulwer at so short a notice, sup-
posing that it would excite great indignation i❑ this
country, they hastened to remove that impression by
sending over Count Mirasol to explain the circum-
stances under which so strong a course had been
adopted, and that gentleman arrived on the 25th of
May. But the Noble Viscount at the head of Foreign
AlFtirs—he would not say whether correctly or in-
correctly carne to the conclusion that he would
not receive any communication from the Spanish
Government unless it came through Senor Istu-
ritz, the Spanish Minister here. In a private
note of the 29th of May the Spanish Ambassador told
Lord Palmerston that that he might have to transmit to
him the documents of which Count Mirasol had been the
bearer. His Lordship subsequently inquired when they
were to be forwarded, on which Senor Isturitz informed
him that lie did nut feel himself authorised to present
the communication with which another individual had
been charged without first communicating with his Go-
vernment on the subject. On the 6th of Jane Lord Pal-
merston addressed to Senor Isturitz a letter, the conclud-
ing paragraph of which stated that her Majesty's Go-
vernment could not acquie,ce in a course of proceeding
so disrespectful to the British Crown; and that if Count
Mirasol had brought any statement from the Government
of Spain in explanation or justification of the dismissal
of her Majesty's Minister from Madrid, he called upon
Senor Isturitz to send it in writing forthwith. The Noble
Lord went on in his letter to say that if he did not do so
it would be in vain to have any further communica-
tion on the subject, and her Majesty's Government would
assume that Count Mirasol had brought no statement
deserving of consideration, and that the Spanish Govern-
ment in sending him had no becoming purpose in view.
The Noble Lord then referred to a letter of the 7th of
June, but so indistinctly that we could not catch its
purport. To that letter Lord Palmerston replied on the
12th of June, intimating that Senor Isturitz (so we
understood the Noble Lord) would do well to quit the
country forthwith. And on the 14th of June, without
having had an opportunity of submitting to the British
Government the pipers explanatory of the motives of
the Spanish Government, which had been sent by a con-
fidential agent, and with such haste that, he believed,
that agent had arrived in this country before Sir
Henry Bulwer, the Spanish Ambassador quitted
England. It was under these circumstances that
the Government had laid the correspondence on
the table, with an intimation that it had wholly
and entirely closed. He believed, however, that within
twenty-four hours after Senor Isturitz had left this
country a courier arrived with dispatches giving permis-
sion to him to communicate to the British Government
the documents brought by Count Mirasol, and other
papers as well. And if the Spanish Government had
a justifiable cause for believing that the British Minister
at Madrid had been departing from his ordinary duties
and intriguing to overthrow the Government of the
Queen of Spain, it would go far to explain the con-
duct of the Spanish Government. Parliament was,
however, to be called on to decide this most important
question iu the absence of that justification which the
Spanish Government had forwarded by a special envoy.
He wished to ask the Noble Marquis, first,
whether a supplementary communication had in
the first instance been made by Count Mirasol, and
whether directions had subsequently been given
to the Spanish Minister here to make that communi-
cation? If so, whether it had been made; and if made,
whether it had been accepted and received by the Fo-
reign-office? And if so received, he wished to know
whether it was the intention of Ministers to submit such
papers and explanations to the consideration of Parlia-
ment before they were called upon to decide on the
merits of the question?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE (who was all but
inaudible in the gallery) was understood to say that no
further communication had been made to her Majesty's
Government on the subject referred to. No communi-
cation, in fact, could have been received since diploma.
tic relations between the two countries had ceased.
Lord STANLEY wished to know whether since the
departure of Senor Isturitz there had been a tender by
any person whatever, on the part of the Spanish Go-
vernment, of the explanations to which he had referred?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was understood to
say that there had not, because it could not have been
received.
Lord BROUGHAM—Then we can only see one side
of the question.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, that in such a state of
things they could not be called upon to pronounce any
opinion on the subject of the correspondence in question.
They must necessarily wait for that information which
had been declined by her Majesty's Government—they
must wait until the Spanish Government took the
means of communicating it to the world.—(Hear, hear.)
CRIMINAL LAW CONSOLIDATION BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM moved the second reading of this
Bill. His Lordship stated some of the alterations which
he proposed to make, as also the reasons why he thought
there should be a digest of the criminal law which should
make it more easily understood; and concluded by say-
ing it was his intention to refer the whole matter to
a Select Committe.

The LOAD CHANCELLOR approved of the Noble
and Learned Lord's proposition to refer so complicated
a subject to a Select Committee.
Lord CAMPBELL also thought it desirable that the
measure should be fully considered.
The Earl of POWIS called attention to a clause in
ould not Ile
be
the Bill enacting severe penalties on deans and chapters
for refusing to ()hey letters missive of the Crown nomi-
nating to bishoprics.
complained
allowed
to p
oaf suchss
without a clause,the
Lord BROUGHAM said the Bill proposed no more
than that which was now part of the law of the land.
Lord DENMAN hoped this matter would be taken
faunldles htocpoend siidt w .
.
eration
altogether out of the Criminal code. The law had been
accidentally and carelessly enacted by a statute of Ed-
ward VI., and he thought there was a general wish that
it should be done away with.
After a few words from Lord ELLENBOROUGRI the
motion was agreed to; and Lcrd BROUGHAM nominated
the Select Committee.

COPYHOLD ENFRANCHISEMENT EXTENSION

BILL.

On the motion for the second reading of this Bill,
Lord WIIARNCLIFFE presented a petition from the
lord of the manor of St. John, Clerkenwell, praying for
protection from certain provisions of the Bill, and
stated at some length the object which the petitioner
had in view. As far as could be collected in the gal-
lery, the petitioner objected to a compulsory valuation of
his property, and prayed exemption from the operation
of the Bill.
The LORI) CHANCELLOR said the Bill was not
intended to interfere with any voluntary arrangements.
It professed only to deal with particular circumstances
of the tenure, which at present rendered the property
less valuable, and its object was to make the property
more valuable to both landlord and tenant.
Great inconvenience arose from the present copyhold
tenure. The Bill dealt with fines, heriots, wastes
(including the mode of dealing with the timber), and
sought to improve the interests of all parties concerned.
The operation of heriots was most injurious ;
if the holder of a copyhold tenement died, his most va-
luable property might be seized by the lord of the manor.
There were many other equally injurious things con-
nected with the copyhold tenure. Wastes were a very
uncertain source of profit to the lords of the manors,
owing to the difficulty of making a just estimate. To
remedy this, the Bill proposed to give a settled sum to
the landlord, to be' made the subject of previous esti-
mates. The system of fines had operated most prejudi-
cially; its tendency in many cases was to prevent im-
provement by the tenant. He could cite a case iu point,
where a small estate of six acres, in Herefordshire,
had been subjected to a fine of 4,000/., because the
Court of Chancery had appointed the trustees, and
these were held to be so many new lives in the
lease, and a proportionate fine on renewal was
charged. The question was only settled after thirteen
years' litigation and four trials. The Bill also pro-
posed improvements in the matter of timber, for the
purpose of adjusting contending claims. It, was
admitted at present that copyhold tenure prevented
the parties from deriving the full benefit of the property;
and to put an end to this state of things, it was proposed
to convert such property into freehold, by giving tenants
a rig4it to call on the lords to accept a fair compensation
for ttfi",ir interest. One great difficulty which they had
had to deal with was the stewards' fees, which were re-
gulated by different customs in different manors. These
would be simplified by
the establishment of a scale, and
interfered with as little as possible. It had been sug-

erased.

gested that in some cases an arbitrary fine might be ne-
cessary as a protection; and to meet these cases he should
propose a clause in Committee. He hoped their Lord-
ships would consent to the second reading of this Bill,
which he now moved.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said that in all cases
of this kind, where legislativd interference had been exer-
cised, it had been customary to give a compensation, or
at least an option, to the parties who were likely to be
aggrieved. He believed that under the operation of
this Bill copyhold tenures would totally disappear. lie
therefore moved that it be read a second time that day
six months.
Lord BEAUMONT thought the Bill desirable, but
objected to its taking away from the lord of the manor
the protection he now enjoyed without giving him any-
thing in lieu of it. It gave the copyhold tenant the
power of forcing a sale to the prejudice of the lord of
the: manor, while the latter had no power of forcing the
tenant to a commutation or sale of his interests. He
would support the Bill, but hoped to see it altered in this
respect.
Lord REDESDALE said that the Bill amounted to
such a dangerous violation of principle, that, if carried
one step further, it would place property in the same
position it now was in on the continent, and materially
affect the whole system of leases and lives. He, there-
fore, supported the amendment.
Lord CAMPBELL defended the Bill as necessary to
remove an odium which justly attached to this descrip-
tion of tenure, but regretted that it did not make com-
mutation compulsory in all cases.
The Earl of HARROWBY observed, there was one
universal feeling in the country as to the great incon-
venience resulting from the existing system. Many of
the details of the Bill required further consideration in
Committee, but as to the principle, it was one which de-
served the assent of their Lordships.
Lord STANLEY said the Bill went much further than
the recommendation of the Commissioners, for it not
only made the enfranchisement compulsory as against
the lord of the manor, or a certain number of the te-
nants joining together in demanding it, but it also em-
powered the lord, he having consented to such demand,
to compel those tenants whose assent had not been ob-
tained to commute their copyhold into a permanent
tenure. The compulsory power as against the landlord
might be a great advantage to the rich copyholder, but
the compulsory power as against the tenant might be
productive of serious injury to the poor man who
had not the means to pay for the commutation. The Bill
was altogether unnecessary, inasmuch as voluntary com-
mutation, especially in regard to ecclesiastical property,
was now going on to no small extent ; but he ob-
jected to it further on the ground that it was an im-
proper interference with the rights of property, and if
his Noble Friend divided on his amendment, he should
vote with him.
Lord ABINGER thought it better to adhere to the
present system of voluntary commutation.
After a few words from the LORD CHANCELLOR
in reply,
Their Lordships divided, when there appeared—
Contents
Non-contents

Majority.
The Bill was then read a second time.
EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of CLANIUCARDE moved the further
consideration of the amendments proposed on the report.
Lord MONTEAGLE said that he had assented to the
sewed reading of the Bill, believing that its principle
was in all fair and just cases to make provision for
evicted tenants. In its present shape, however, it was
open to many objections. He thought the notices should
be served on the relieving officer, who would be always
on the spot, instead of on the guardians of the union.
The Noble Lord then stated the substance of the amend-
ments which he meant to propose. His only object was
to secure relief to the evicted and really destitute tenants.
He would now move that the Bill be re-committed.
The Marquis of CLANRICARI)E said he should
not object to the re-committal of the Bill, having him-
self sundry amendments to propose.
After a conversation, the Lord Chancellor quitted the
woolsack, but the House was delayed going into Com-
mittee by the absence of Lord Shaftesbury.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved that Lord
Beaumont should take the chair.
Lord REDESDALE said, that in his opinion, as the
Lord Chaucellor had left the woolsack, the Noble Mar-
quis could not make that motion.
Lord CAMPBELL said it was the inherent right of
their Lordships to appoint their own Chairman of Com-
mittees, and there'ore the motion was perfectly good.
After a general discussion on the subject, which ap-
peared to excite considerable amusement.
Earl GREY begged of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord
Redesdale) to consider for a moment the absurdity of his
proposition, for, if it were true, it would be equally im-
possible for their Lordships to get back again or resume.
Their Lordships then went into Committee, Lord
Beaumont in the chair.
On the first clause being read,
Lord MONTEAGLE moved his amendment to render
the service of ejectment process uniform with the service
of any other description of process.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE opposed the amend-
ment. He acknowledged that the Bill would occasion
difficulties to the landlords, but he would ask them whe-
ther it was not better to incur that disadvantage and the
risk of a greater expense, rather than allow a loss of life
to take place, which a timely and effectual enactment
might prevent. —(Hear, hear.) On that consideration, he
prayed their Lordships to accept the Bill as it stood.
Lord STANLEY here rose to call the attention of
their Lordships to a question of form, arising upon the
suggestion thrown out by the Noble Earl opposite (Earl
Grey), that the House would be unable to resume after
going into Committee, if the argument of his Noble
Friend near him (Lord Redesdale) were deemed correct.
Now he (Lord Stanley) apprehended, according to a rule
of the 17th of Tune, 1814, that their Lordships, when in
Committee, had the power to resume, by an unanimous
resolution to that effect, agreed to amongst themselves,
without any question being put from the chair.
After a few words from the Marquis of LANS-
DO WNE,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he objected to the
argument of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley),
because it assumed that their Lordships were at that
moment not in form, which, he was of opinion, was not
correct. Their Lordships were not bound by an ap-
pointment of Chairman of Committees at all times, for
the Chairman of Committees, by virtue of his appoint-
ment, was to preside at the Committees on all occa-
sions, unless on any one occasion their Lordships made
a different provision.—(Hear.)
Lord CAMPBELL repeated what he had said be-
fore, that their Lordships had an inherent right to ap-
point, at any time, their own Chairman of Committees.
A desultory conversation ensued, in which the Earl
of Minto, Earl Desart, and the Earl of St. Germans took
part.

The House then resumed.
Earl GREY said there was, it could not but strike
their Lordships, a spirit of opposition growing up in
Ireland against the rights of properly; and their Lord-
ships should take care to adopt such a course as would
put an effectual stop to that spirit. He was quite aware
that in many instances the landlords in Ireland were not
to blame, and whilst they armed them with power to
consolidate small holdings, they should take care that
the interests of the poorer classes should be in some

way protected in cases of ejectment. He was of opinion
that the law with respect to ejectments ought to be so
constructed that the ejected party would not be subjected
to be dispossessed after sunset in winter, and the best way
that this could be effected would be by serving notices
on the relieving officers that such an ejectment was to
take place; and the notice should be given seven days
beforehand, that the board of guardians might make the
necessary preparations. There were cases wherein poor
people were exposed, by the severity of those ejectments
in inclement winter nights, and fever and disease were,
in many instances, the consequence. He, therefore,
hoped that their Lordships would adopt such a course as
would most effectually remedy that state of things.
Lord MONTEAGLE repudiated altogether the in-
terpretation put upon this Bill by the Noble Earl. He
would take the course which he believed to be right, and
sooner or later justice would be done. His object was,
notwithstanding the taunts that had been thrown
out, to obtain speedier and more effectual relief for
the poor.
The first clause, as amended, was then ordered to stand
part of the Bill.
On the second clause being proposed,
Lord MONTEAGLE wished to know whether any
effectual notice had been given, so as to show who were
the parties entitled to receive support.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE was aware that
even twenty and thirty families were sometimes
ejected ; and he would therefore ask how was it possible
that the relieving officers could confer relief on those
parties, unless due notice were previously given ? He
should therefore propose, as an amendment, that the
word " before " do stand part of the Bill.
After a few words from the Earl of Ross and the
Duke of LEINSTZR,

Lord GLENGALL said that great sympathy was
raised on the part of the ejected paupers against the
landowners, who are generally severe sufferers; for
those paupers get up an affecting story, and bring
odium, together with loss, on the landowners. lie felt
assured that if seven days' notice were required the
ejectments would never take place, because the people
would get up a conspiracy and shoot the landlord, as
they did Major Mahon and others.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS could not agree with the
objection of the Noble Lord (Lord Glengall), because he
thought it right that the relieving officer should have
notice from the landlord who ejects, and should he fail
in giving this notice of twenty-four or forty-eight hours,
that he should be punished.
The Committee then divided on the question that the
word "before" stand part of the Bill--

Contents
Non-contents

On our return to the gallery we found the Earl of
SHAFTESBURY in the chair, and
Lord STANLEY on his legs, inquiring in what posi-
tion the House now stood. Lord Beaumont had been
voted into the chair, but just at the moment of the di-
vision in came the Earl of of Shaftesbury and left the
Noble Lord at liberty to vote, and thus the numbers on
the division were eqaal. Ho wished to know on what
principle the Noble Lord (Lord Beaumont) had been
turned out of the chair after having been voted into it?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE replied that the
Noble Lord had taken the chair in the abssnee of the
Earl of Shaftesbury, and, on the re-appearance of the
Noble Earl, of course the latter resumed his office as
chairman.

The Earl of SIIAFTESBURY (with great animation)
—Yes ; perfectly right.—(Loud laughter.)
The Earl of CLANRICARDE, as we understood him,
said that according to the forms of the House the amend-

went was lost, and that the word "before" would be

The clause was then agreed to.

The remaining clauses of the Bill were then agreed to,
with some verbal amendments, and the Bill was reported.
...."'Their Lordships then adjourned at Ten Minutes to
Twelve o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 22.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY (BRANCH
FROM SLOUGH TO WINDSOR).
Upon the motion for the third reading of this Bill,
Mr. DISRAELI moved that the Bill be read
a third time that (lay six months, and said he
did so on the part of Eton College, whose interests were
essentially public interests, and whose interests he hoped
the House would protect by rejecting the Bill. What-
ever might be the organization of the powerful inte-
rests he had to encounter in opposing the Bill, he trusted
that the sense and justice of the House would resist the
monstrous proposition which was proposed by this
company. Last year Parliament threw out the Bill,
but had so far as it had yet proceeded consented
to it this session, and ono of the principal supporters of
the Bill was the Chief Commissioner of the Woods
and Forests, which might be accounted for in conse-
quence of the Great Western Company having made a
compensation to the Crown of 25,0001. It might be said
tbat it was ungracious to oppose a Bill which had been
passed by a Committee of the House, but this was an
exceptionable case, because the arrangement which had
been entered into for the purpose of getting the consent
of the Crown did not redound to the credit of either of
the parties concerned.
Mr. CAMPBELL seconded the amendment.
Colonel REID complained that the Noble Lord the
First Commissioner of the WOods and Forests had
violated an agreement into which he had solemnly
entered with the South-Western Company. He
acquitted the Noble Lord of any intention to violate
the understanding to which he came with the company,
but yet that did not alter the fact. He had agreed to a
certain plan for the Windsor and Staines Railway, which
he afterwards opposed, and sanctioned another. He had
promised to give his support to a project 64 the South-
Western, but instead of doing so he had favaired one
brought forward by the rival company.
Lord MORPETH said that as a direct charge had
been made against him of breach of faith, he felt bound
to make a few observations to the House. He
was disposed not to view that charge—a charge
that had been brought against him gravely, of a direct
breach of faith, with any great concern, feeling, as he did,
that he had hitherto acted in these proceedings with the
utmost candour and fair dealing towards all the parties
with whom he had successively been brought in contact.
He felt it necessary to mention that in the high quarter
to which allusion had already been made there was no
wish for increased railway accommodation between
London and Windsor. The proprietors of Windsor
Castle were perfectly satisfied with the accommodation
afforded by the Great Western Company, and as the
Great Western had recently been restrained from
making a branch to Windsor by the Crown, there could
be no doubt that the Great Western Company had
strong claims upon the consideration oe Government.
During, however, the period of railway excitement, the
inhabitants of Windsor felt that it would be greatly to
their benefit if they had a direct railway communication
with London, and the Crown conceding their wishes,
felt itself at liberty to withdraw its opposition to a
scheme of that nature, upon the promoters undertaking
to put the Crown in a position to make certain im-
provements at Windsor without imposing additional
burdens upon the people. That understanding
was entered into both with the Great Western and
South-Western Companies, but he denied most
positively that he ever entered into an engagement
with either company to oppose or support the other.
There had been no concealment and no breach of faith in
the course which had been taken on the part of the Crown,
and he had good reason for believing that the evi-
dence. which he gave last before the Committee
had not been the means of throwing out the
scheme proposed by the Great Western Company.
No person held the associations and recollections
of Eton more sacredly than he did, but the objections to
this undertaking, he was inclined to think, were of that
kind which were entertained by many learned bodies
towards the approach of anything in the shape of
business or commerce near the places of their habita-
tion, and such as induced the authorities of Eton Col-
lege to oppose the original Great Western Railway, and
the heads of the University of Oxford to oppose a line
from London to Oxford.—(Hear, hear.) He was, there-
fore, inclined to think that the objections which some of
the masters and some of the scholars of Eton had
thought it their duty to urge against the line were un-
founded and premature. The authorities of the college,
whose business it was to manage all the affairs connected
with, it were in favour of the Great Western branch, and
had given it their persevering support. In order to
show that that was the case, the Noble Lord read a letter
which he had received from the registrar of the college,
disclaiming on the part of the college any participation
in the expressions used by the counsel for
the South- Western Company, and stating that
as the town of Windsor demanded railway
communication, the college bad forced upon them
the choice of two evils, viz., a line passing in a
westerly direction, which would only partially obstruct
the amusement of the scholars, and not interfere with
the property of the college, and a line passing easterly,
having a large station close to the property of the col-
lege, and which was calculated to interfere with the
discipline of the school. He thought the Great Western
was entitled to the greatest consideration of the Crown
and the Government, and that this Bill should receive
the assent of the House.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WALPOLE trusted, as the Chairman of the
Committee, which was anxious to do justice between the
parties, and as an old Etonian, that he might be
permitted to offer a few observations to the House.
The question before the Committee was, first,
whether the line of the Great Western should
be continued from Blackpots to that line near Slough ;
and secondly, whether the Great Western should be
continued to Windsor. The objections to the project of
the South-Western were very strong. They had made
a solemn agreement not to go through two fields, but
they afterwards came to Parliament with a project
which, if it had been acceded to, would have altogether
contravened that agreement. It was also to go through
the Home Park, and as the proposition was one which
would not have been acceded to in the case of a land-
owner, it could not be contended that the Crown was not
entitled to equal consideration.—(Hear.) Besides, the line
was intended to cross Hockley-fields, near the Eton
School, on an embankment, and would have materially
interfered with the amusements, if not the health of the
boys ; whereas the Great Western would expend
20,0001. on an embankment on arches 1,900
yards in length, and had consented to clauses
which would not interfere with the bathing or boating of
the boys, which would compel them, if necessary, to
erect a screen along the part where the boys were in the
habit of bathing, and ,to cross the river by one arch.
The scheme of this company, who had been put to much
expense by the opposition of the college, was the most
preferable and most worthy the consideration of the
House.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord H. VANE corroborated the statement of the,
Noble Lord the Member for the West Riding of York-
shire, and completely exonerated him from the charges
brought against him by the Gallant Member for Windsor.
Mr. GLADSTONE thought that when the Great
Western had access, by the leave of Parliament, into
the town of Windsor, it would not deny a terminus to
the South-Western Railway.
Mr. SCOTT said he was a director of the com-
pany which had agreed to pay the Crown 60,0001.
for a consideration which the Crown now pro-
posed to take from them, and he must protest
against this system of establishing a rule one
year, and reversing it the next. This vaccilating policy,
however, had been pursued by the Crown to enable it to
get 25,0001. from the Great Western, in addition to the
60,0001. from the South-Western.

Mr. RICE rose amidst loud cries for a division. He
said he had always entertained the opinion that the
Great Western had the most right to have the line to
Windsor.

Mr. K. SEYMER read an extract from the evidence
given by Mr. Saunders, who, he said, was as capable of
judging of the value of evidence as any man, in which
ho stated that Lord Morpeth had at a former time op-
posed the Great Western.
There being loud calls for a division, the House di-
vided, when there appeared—
For the third reading 224
Against it

Majority for the third reading —127
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
GREAT WESTERN AND OXFORD AND BIR-
MINGHAM JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL.
The third reading of the Bill for conferring on the
Great Western Railway Company she power to pur-
chase the Birmingham and Oxford Junction Line, &c.,
was then moved, but we did not collect by whom.
Mr. LABOUCHERE desired the postponement of the
measure, as being likely, in the opinion of the Railway
Board, to operate injuriously upon the general railway
interest of the country, if prematurely assented to. The
experience of the working of the mixed gauge upon a
lengthened line was not sufficiently mature to enable the
House to pass a final judgment on the principle. And
until this experience was attained, it would be in the
highest degree unadvisable to sanction the extension of
the principle. The double gauge was now being tried
on two tolerably long lines—the Rugby and Oxford, and
the Wolverhampton, Oxford and Worcester, and the
experience upon these railways would enable Parlia-
ment to determine whether or not the sane principle
should be extended to other lines. He moved that the
third reading be postponed till Monday, in order that
the clauses relating to the double gauge might then be
struck out.

Sir E. HAYES supported the recommendation of the
Select Committee in favour of the Bill. _ .

Sir R. H. INGLIS would assent to the amendment.
Mr. E. DENISON said that the consent of the House
to these measures would involve a breach of the pledge
which had been given to the Buckinghamshire Railways
that the railways to Birmingham should be upon the

narrow gauge.
Mr. MUNTZ said that the rule of the House to
support, its Committees ought nut to be departed from
on tho present occasion, which gave no grounds for an
exception to the rule. He considered that the doable
gauge had been sufficiently tried for the purposes of

this Bill.
Mr. HUDSON said ho had the honour of presiding
over the six miles upon which the
double gauge was at
work, and he considered that it was impossible, from
the complication of the system, to work it satisfactorily.
—(Hear, bear.) Without complaining of the Com-
mittee, he begged
.to express an opinion that, in its
search for information on the subject, it would not have
done ill to have called before it the engineer of the Mid-
land Railway, on which these six miles of double gauge
were being tried.—(Hear, hear.) He was of the convic-
tion that the double gauge could not beworked upon any
length of line. He found it all but intolerable, even

upon six miles of railway; it would be perfectly into !e
able upon a greater distance.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CHRISTOPHER said that the Committee had
examined both the engineers, and then consulted the
Government surveyor before they came to any dec'd ion
upon the clauses. That decision was in favour of ' the
two gauge's being worked upon the line of rail.
Mr. HUDSON denied having made any personal Lai-
lusi,ni to the Hon. Member for Whitby.
Mr. 11. VERNEY (amidst cries of "Divide"), Said
that the experiment of the double gauge already ;lied
upon the Gloucester and Cheltenham Railway was not
hostile to its being made with success upon a longer line
of rail.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the third reading 147
For postponing the Bill 72
Majority --75
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
REFORM.—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. COBDEN, in the absence of Mr. Hume, PI
pound the adjourned debate on the motion for a refot 02
in the House of Commons from this day (Friday)
la
Friday next, which day the Government had consent(
to give up to the Hon. Member for that purpose.
WRIT FOR HORSHAM.
Mr. GORING moved that Mr. Speaker do is sue bill
warrant to the Clerk of the Crown to make out a new
writ for the election of a burgess to serve in the present
Parliament for the borough of Horsham, in the room of
John Jervis, Esq., whose election has been cid( toesned
to be void.
Mr. AGLIONBY (amidst cries of " Divide") safe' tbat
the decision of Wednesday iu favour of issuing the' writ
for Cheltenham bad place the House in a contradi.:torY
position with respect to the suspended writs. U
he received an assurance that the Government•woe'
give every assistance to the Hon. Member for Flint in
passing his Bill into a law, he (Mr. Aglionby) tralst
vote in favour of the immediate issue of the writ for
Horsham.
Sergeant TALFOURD said that even supposielt
under the most favourable circumstances, the Bill of 4sh°
Hon. Member for Flint were to pass into a law in I'l.
course of a month frogs the present time, the labours
the Commissioners would then only commence, and 1.1
House would have been prorogued before their eelPe'—
could be received. He could not, therefore, consent t°,/
depart from the usual course that had been Porellee
in former cases such as the present—namely, to et;
suit the report of the Committee, which stated that °ley
two cases of treating had been proved, and upon theiji.
the Member had been unseated. This was not an offel;
deserving of so severe a penalty as the suspension of t
writ fur a year, and therefore he should vote in favour °
the motion.
Sir C. BURRELL bore testimony to the honcore_eb/
character of the electors of Horsham generally, In/
stated that it would in his opinion be a great larsraihiP
the writ were to be suspended any longer. EA
Mr. HAYTER said there was ample time for ,` el
of the Hon. Member for Flint to be passed into. 21a
during the present session. He should vote apices t:wo
issue of the writ for Horsham, in conformity to the
to
previous decisions come to by the House with respet "
this same borough. tr use
Mr. BANKES said he should be ashamed of the es° ts
of Commons if, on account of two slight cases of °ciao.
ing, they could be induced to refuse to issue the writ rit.
the borough of Horsham. He was only sorry the 11
had been so long delayed.
The House then divided, when there appeared
4
For the motion
Against it ...... 50
Majority -4
The writ was accordingly ordered to be issued.
REMOVAL OF JUDGE MONTAGU.
tof
Mr. ANSTEY, in moving for copies of the dispatel
received at the Colonialsoffice from the Governor 0
Van Diemen's Land, relative to the removal of Ju °„%
Montagu, asked the Hon. Under-Secretary for
„1:P.4
Colonies how it was that the receipt of the import •
dispatches in question had been kept from his skt, ate
ledge for three days after their arrival, as muse.
_0•
been the case from the answer given
Member on a former night to a question put to him-
lative to those dispatches? ilea
Mr. B. HAWES said that the Hon. Member ma
much ado about nothing. The dispatches in quessoluff
being very important, and involving law questior
_eue
considerable intricacy, had been retained by
_s„
other Under-Colonial Secretary for considers tin'
(he being a lawyer) before they were sent
~,re
by the
rev
the Noble Earl at the head of the department. ;tto
dispatches in q iuestion would have to be submitteet
the law officers of the Crown before any decision .
come to respecting the question to which they referi:e_d
It was very much to be wished that the Hon. IL
Learned Member would give notice of his intention tua
ask questions of him, for then ho should be prepal
to answer them.
The return was then ordered.
DIFFERENTIAL DU PIES ON RUM.
Sir L. O'BRIEN begged to ask some of the Hon. G7e.
tlemen on the Treasury bench to answer a quest' u
which he had put to the Right Hon. Baronet the Ch.
cellor of the Exchequer, whom he did not see in elf.
place. The question was, whether it was the intention
of the Right Hon. Raronet to persist in the differential-
duty
of 4d. on rum?
qo Me s
tri. Bo .t
°ILA
oWr
rEO
wS bed(tghgise
day),
,Haosn H.
noB anr oontieoto t
hoaput abehel
given of his intention to put it.
celSloir L. r
notice of
siaoidtentthioaot he had hasakd gthiveentiotehsetioCohai,ni;
hours ago.
SUGAR DUTIES.—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The order of the day for the adjourned debate on this
question being read,
Lord G. BENTINCK took that opportunity of pre-
senting a petition from the West Indian agents in this
country complaining of the inefficiency of the Govern•
ment proposition towards affording any relief to the
West India planters.
On the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair,
Sir L. O'BRIEN said that as he had failed in getting
au answer to what he deemed to be a most importset
question he should feel it his duty to move the adjoins"
ment of the House.
Mr. SPOONER seconded the motion.
Mr. HAWES intimated that the Hon. Baronet beti
net given the usual notice of his question.
Sir L. O'BRIEN—I gave a written notice to-day.
Mr. HAWES said that that could hardly be CO
dered a sufficient notice.
Mr. C. ANSTEY said that the intention of the 11-°_lll
Baronet to ask the question was notorious. It had been:
agreed to at a meeting of Irish Members. The Cht.,`i;
cellor of the Exchequer had had written notice, *nu,
was known that the votes of several Irish Members oe.,
the
upon the answer. Under such circumstance;
the ignorance of the Under-Secretary, and the abeell.r,
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, were most significant el
cumstances.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. MAULE said that the case was one of 1ty0.5
unprecedented nature, and one which he could not WI,
well understand.—(Laughter.) It appeared that they
had been a meeting of certain Irish Members respeettg
the differential duties on rum, and that at that leeeh
it was determined to ask the Chancellor of the ExcZ.er
Deposer
certain questions. The Hon. Baronet the se,
for Clare had come down to the House for the pureeer
O'Brien.)
withouto,l3)r
ine ou t
.ih)o having v nftgwhglasisveianntgetnuhteeisotCnio.h_nazwe„ehNlilcoohr ont fho theet
from
osEn siie led
e
the Exchequer alone could answer, and he
probably be in his place before the conclusion of the is;
bate. Surely the Hon. Baronet did not mean to Plass
in a motion which, if carried, would cause the lose
evening for a most important debate.—(Hear, bear.) the
Mr. C. ANSTEY • d inthinking that .se
persiste
Chancellor of the Exchequer had had sufficient
no
of the question. an that
Mr. SPOONER said that the facts were, that eh the
morning the Irish Members had an interviews w"estiolt
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and put to him ,getz toe'
respecting the differential duty on rum, to relutt the
could get no answer. It was then determined t'oetice
would
probably
question should be asked in the House, and due boa
was given. The Chancellor of the Exchequer not Lae
in his place when the order for going into Clreasber.,
was read, his (Mr. Spooner's) Hon. Friend terhe';a-, see'
for Clare had moved the adjournment of the hone Asst
he (Mr. Spooner),_ seeing that no Cabinet Mill'e7.tant'''
in his place—that the question was most ill11)%ower,
and that many votes probably depended on the ad ,john
had felt it his duty to second the motion.--(1-4°%0,10
Ruisell at that moment entered the House.) Per ece'l
the Noble Lord at the head of the Government
present he would be able to solve the difficulty. of the
Mr. ROBINSON —Perhaps the Chancellor 4 ;be
Exchequer might be in his place in the coursed at
evening; if so, the better way would be to pr
once with the debate.—(No, no.) goes
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—With' respect
W tht:,.ce to
tion which has been asked, I have in the first; Pu'estion,
observe that it does not immediately affect the 11101
before the House. It is part only of a plan or which
laid the outline before the House on a former eof theit
Certain Members of this House did, on the e'Y'tt t 000'
constituents, make representations to my him „rester
Friend, and I had some conversation with o
not fell/
day on the subject, when he stated that he was 13"E„,..dafl
in possession of their views. I saw him Will ojsiate°,
when he said that ho had been made hilly seq ~, 601'
with the views of the deputation, and bad tbeLroble
under consideration. As soon as my Right Hortouee.
Friend has made up his mind he will inform thee'toiled
—(A laugh.) I am net prepared to make any eto de:
statement now, but I think it would be hardly fair bad
ese
fer a debate on the sugar duties until the anew"
been obtained.
Sir L. O'BRIEN said thatvotes t the
on the answer, and, therefore, he was unwilling ts-attar.)
debate should proceed until he had obtained it•—tani
Lord J. RUSSELL—I am not going to int"--oesll
many would der3fibcie
statement with a view of securing the Hon- Bar best
vote. We made the proposition which we thougut, till
for all the interests concerned. The Hon. Blerdlie'vese
act according to his own views ; we will only leier.)
such measures as we think best for the public.—( _is
Lord G. BENTINCK—In my opinion the 130.115_:,..)
placed in a most extraordinary position.—(Hear,
G°-
It is proposed to go into Committee, to consider thes,of
veni:lent plan respecting the sugar duties, but IVedia
that plan refers to the differential duty on West owe'
rum. Now we hear that, unknown to the House, e°
thing like a bargain has been transacted out of
between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the 1 the
Members.—("Hear, hear," and "No, no," from',le
Treasury benches.) Yes it is expected on thene,
of the Irish Members that Government will rrs'ed
the relief quoad rum, which has been Pr°l3,3 the
to the West Indies; and if we are rightly informeoge_.,,,
?rids Members are prepared, if that part of the Gof
went measure be withdrawn which relates to the ,e,;,
ferential duty between rum and corn spirits, they. (t
Irish Members) are then prepared to support Micro,
in their measure respecting the sugar duties.--Onbs
hear.) Now, the West Indians are not satisfied with the
concession originally promised, and in any owe

'use is not in a condition to de&do until we are in pos-
session of the whole government plan. It occurs to me
that the subject started by the Hon. Baronet the Mem-
ber for Clare goes to the very gist of the whole question.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Noble Lord hod
Featly misunderstood him. What he (Lord J. Russell)
etad said was that Government, in their propositions,
Would be guided by the public interest aloneeand the
Noble Lord pretended to understand that something like
a bargain had been entered into with Irish Members.—
(Hear, hear.) When a government plan had been once
Propounded to the House, it was not unusual to confer
Oa the details with parties interested, but he repeated
that the ultimate decision of Government would be in-
lhaenced only by considerations of the public interest.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (who
bad just entered the House) said, the facts of the case
are these :—I yesterday heard that a deputation of Irish
Members wished to see me respecting the differential
had
on rum, and on other matters, respecting which I
ad previously had an interview with the Irish distillers,
t'amely, an allowance on wastage when taking British
spirits out of store. My Hon. Friend opposite (Sir L.
O'Brien) and five other Irish Members waited on nee
1111 d stated:their opinion, founded on representations they
bad received from the Irish distillers, that reducing the
differential duty on ruin from ninepenco to fourpence
would be prejudicial to the Irish spirit trade. I heard
the deputation with deference, stated that I would sub-
rnit their views to Government, and that, as to the
aecond portion of their request, that respecting the
Wastage, I had for some time bad it under con-
sideration, and would, if it could be safely
done, concede it. It was certainly intimated to
lac that the votes of these gentlemen would depend
On my answer, and I said that I had prepared what
I believed best adapted for the public interests, and that
as to the votes, Hon. Members must take the course
they thought fit; that I could not make terms, and that
had given them the only answer in m power.—(Hear,
kear.) I came down to the House early to answer the
'question of which I had received notice from the Hon.
tart., but as a railway debate was going on I returned
to Downing-street, where I have been busily engaged
ever since.
Mr. DISRAELI said that the Irish Members had not
yet, received the answer they required.—(Hear, hear.)
The Government had announced their plan, and should
adhere to it, and not call upon the House to debate a
Question, a most important feature in which was con-
fessedly still under Cabinet consideration. He thought
't but right that the House should be informed as to
What really was the government plan.
Mr. C. BULLER complained that the Noble Lord the
Member fur Lynn was most reckless in his imputations
on the Government. The Noble Lord had accused the
Government of making a bargainF with the Irish Mem-
tars. In his (Mr. Buller s) opinion there never
d been made a more extraordinary bargain than that
Which the Noble Lord and the Hon. Member for Bucks
Seemed inclined to make with Members whose views
were diametrically opposed to their own, merely for the
PUrrose of catching a few stray votes.—(Hear.) The
house had the authority of the Hon. Baronet the
M•
ember for Clare as to the fact that uo bargain had
coen entered into.
Mr. BAILLIE said that one of the Irish Members
had informed him that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had told them his views were in concurrence
With theirs, and that he would use his influence with
his colleages to bring them round to a similar opinion.
Mr. HERBERT, as one of the deputation which had
Waited on the Government, denied that any bargain had
► been entered into.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said it appeared to him that
atenething very like a bargain had been going on, not-
Withstanding the virtuous indignation of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Liskeard.—(Hear, hoar.) The answers of the
different Members of the Government reminded him of
the old proverb :
" When caps amongst a crowd are thrown,
Each man picks up and fits his own."
The House could hardly proceed with the debate in ig-
norance of the government plan.
Mr. HORSMAN did not think the explanation which
bad been given at all satisfactory.—(Hear, hear.) He
thought the House should be informed whether Govern-
roent meant to proceed with the plan as originally pro-
Posed or not.—(Hear.)
Mr. FAGAN denied that any bargain had been pro-
posed or acceded to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the point respecting which he had expressed his
concurrence with the deputation was the wastage, and
there was an Hon. Member behind him who could con-
firm his statement.
r. Mr. J. O'BBIEN confirmed the statement of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Sir L. O'BRIEN said that the Right ROD. Gentleman
Still left the House without information on the most im-
Portant point.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
give no further answer.
Mr. URQUHART was strongly of opinion that a
virtual bargain had been going on between the Irish
Members and the Right Hon. Baronet. It would appear
t▪
hat the Right Hon. Gentleman had been throwing dust
in their eyes, and, therefore, he (Mr. Urquhart) should
give his vote for the adjournment of the debate.
, Sir R. INGLIS did not think the question which they
oad been discussing for two hours was so connected with
the resolution as to require the expenditure of so long a
title--(Hear, bear.)
Mr. BERNAL differed entirely from his Hon. Friend,
and considered that a nearer assimilation of the duties on
rum had a very close connexion with the question.—
(koltear.) When they went on with the debate ho would
bold. the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the
Exchequer to the proposition he made. He would ab-
Solve his Right Hon. Friend from any intention to de-
ceive, or from entering into anything like a bargain with
the rish Members, between whom, it was said, a kind of
coquetting was carried on.—(Hear.)
Mr. J. STUART said the question they had to con-
eider was, whether the remedy proposed by the Govern-
aient for the relief of the West Indies would effect its
°l3.iect. Hew could they go on to debate that question
Without knowing whether the Government would adhere
to their proposition ? The Government bad a right to
live some answer, as upon it the votes of some Members
Would depend.
Mr. LABOUCHERE was sorry to be obliged to inter-
fere in a discussion which had been already too long pro-
tracted.—(Hear, hear.) The Government, in listening
to the representation of those who had objections to urge
the
a measure proposed by the Government affecting
'tie trade of the country, had but followed all former
Precedent, and his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of
'0 Exchequer had only adopted the usual course in
81.rittg consideration to the statements of those whose
l&terests were affected, and in saying that be would lay
the representations made to him before the Cabinet, and
rye the parties the opinion of his colleagues as well as
own. If this was to be made a pretext for stopping
▪ till, they never could come to a decision on measures
fecting the trade of the country. The question of the
duty on rum was an important part of the subject, but it
Was; vain to say that they could not discuss and decide
having
question of the scale of the duties on sugar without
fettling an absolute assurance, on the part of the
i'..overnment, whether the duty on rum was to be 4d. or
• In 1846 they received deputations likewise on the
tuhiect of the sugar duties, but they did hot depart from
any.
portion of the plan proposed. Nothing was more
fair or unjust than to represent a Government as
vacillating and uncertain because they gave a respectful
attention to the representation of parties who would be
affected by the measure.—(Hear.)
GOULBURN said the question before the
ne°age was in many respects different from a pure
Mestion of trade. The question was how they could
afford relief to the suffering West Indies, and before
`,:1,-y came to a decision it was important to know
nether the differential duty on rum was to be 4d. or
'a•--that is, whether an additional duty of fifty per
cent. was to be allowed or not.—(Hear, hear.) With-
out being informed on that point, he did not think the
-*douse could confidently pronounce an opinion on the
Whole plan.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY thought the Government
Should say whether they would adhere to their original
Proposition,

11.,

Lord J. RUSSELL said that his Right Hon. Friend
(Mr. Labouchere) had given the proper reply to the
statements which bad been made. But as the question
stood at present, the proposition of the Government, as
originally proposed, must be considered as the question,
before the House.

The motion for the adjournment was then withdrawn.
Mr. GOULBURN wished to know from the Noble
Lord whether he had considered the suggestion of his
Hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool with regard to
the introduction of a temporary Bill for the continuance
of the existing sugar duties for a limited period. He
thought it scarcely possible, with every activity on the
Part of the House, that the Bill could receive the Royal
Assent before the sth of July, when the duties would
be further lowered,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that when the House came to
4 decision on the motion of the Hon. Baronet (Sir J.
l'attington), he would then consider the proposition of
the Hon. Member for Liverpool.
Mr. CARDWELL said that where a Bill was a money
b
the House could only take one step every day, and
itee if the House came to a division on Friday night—
or it was not expected that the House would divide that
11R!ght----the Bill would afterwards have to go through
sleo other stages before it reached the House of Lords.
i
If the Noble Lord waited for the issue of the debate be
rere the House before he took the first step in introducing
short Bill of the nature he stated, he would not have
Jin his power to pass such a measure before the sth of
01Y, without an unprecedented violation of the standing
f..rs of the House.—(Hear.)
No member of the Government having replied
GLADSTONE said be hoped the Goverment
11,„'d give an answer, as the subject was important.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Government could increase as well as diminish duties
11,"„, a vote of that House.
.the adjourned debate was then resumed by
,•Mr. MOFFATT, who said that the effect of the race-
ire proposed by the Government would be to increase
4 cost of sugar to the people of this country without
nging any corresponding relief to the West Indian
wenters. For the first year the cost to the country
th?uld 750 250,0001.; for tho second, 500,0001.; for the
:rd, ,000/. ; for the fourth and two subsequent
NZ', 1,000,0001.; making for the six years that the Bill
t° he in operation a total cost to the country of
rc, "0,000/ With respect to the reduction of the diffe-
rnetitiel duty on rum, he thought it was a just and wise
and would prove a boon to the West India
terinest without doing permanent injury to the distilling
t erest in this country. He approved of the 500,000/.
thatlat Was to be given to promote the immigration of
toOeurers, but it would prove of little use unless the
f intended by it was promptly afforded. The in-
t thA 48e of protection given by the proposition was more
nil was supposed, because the duty on the sth of July
Would be 14s. for colonial sugar, and 18e. 6d. for I

foreign. By the praposed duties it would be 13s.
for colonial, and 20s. for foreign, making an in-
crease of protection from 33 to 54 per cent. That was a
material increase, and one which was likely to have con-
siderable effect in diminishing the supply of foreign
sugar to this country. He would not object to this if
the measure was likely to be effectual in raising the
condition of the sugar-producing colonies. But he did
not think it would be productive of benefit to them. In
his opinion there was no juitification for the measure as
one of remedy for the \V‘‘,,t India distress. All the
witnesses who were examined before the Committee
concurred in stating that the great difficulty the planters
had to contend with was the want of labour. It was the
duty of the Government to supply labour to the colonies,
at any cost, particularly as it was the Government that
disabled them from having a sufficient supply. Ile
thought that the colonists allowed themselves to be too
much frightened by the cheapness of slave labour.
Statements had been made that sugar could be produced
in Cuba at ss. 6d. a cwt. But the truth was, that the
cost of producing yellow sugar there was from 13s. to
15s. The latest accounts from Brazil showed that the
cost of yellow sugar there ranged from 14s. Id. to
18s. Bd., and that the planters lost money at these prices;
for the very last mail brought the intelligence of the
failure of one of the principal planters and slave dealers
there.—(Hoar, hear.) Great complaints had been made
with respect to the classification of sugars, which had
proved ruinous, to some of those engaged in the East

India sugar trade, and the doing away with that classi-
fication would prove beneficial. Great complaints were
also made of the cost of the respective Governments of
the Mauritius and the West India colonies. In 1832
the cost of the. Government in Demerara was only
56,0001.; but, in 1847. it was 225,000/.—(Hear, hear.)
He was sorry that the Government had given no indi•
cation of an intention to reduce the cost of government.
He was also sorry that that they did not propose to carry
on some large improvements which had been suggested.
For the reasons he had stated he could not support the
proposition of the Government.—(Hear, hear.) Before
he sat down he thought it right to bear his testimony to
the untiring exertions and the great zeal and activity
displayed by the Noble Lord who conducted the Com-
mittee. He only wished that the West India planters
would exhibit a little of the same zeal and activity.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that though he should feel it
his duty, in the course of the remarks he was about to
make, to express his dissent in important particulars
from the plan of the Government, and though he felt
unable to vote for their proposition, yet he hoped in so
doing that there was nothing inconsistent with the ad-
mission he must frankly make, not only that he be-
lieved the Government were actuated by a sincere desire
to deal justly with various interests, but that they had
to consider and treat a question of extraordinary diffi
culty.—(Hear, hear.) Few questions could come before
Parliament involving such a variety of complex conside-
rations, or one with regard to which the utmost patience,
the utmost care, and the utmost ability might find such
immense difficulties in producing anything like a satis-
factory solution. He felt himself under considerable
difficulty, in consequence of the forms of the House.
His general objection to the Government scheme was
that as a measure of relief it was utterly insufficient,
whilst as a measure of finance it was open to ob-
jections utterly insurmountable. But to these views
be could not, according to the forms, give adequate
expression. He could not vote a negative to the
Speaker leaving the chair, because that would convey
disinclination to reconsider a very difficult question;
nor could he vote for the resolutions, because that would
convey opinions he did not entertain. But these diffi-
culties did not prevent his fully explaining his views
upon the question. Considering it as it affected the
West India colonies, he was bound to say that he entirely
adhered to the principles on which he had always acted
on that question. He could not found his argument on
the mere consideration of protection. He thought they
were working out a great social problem in our West
India colonies. It was impossible to consider this ques-
tion without considering the position of 90 per cent. at
least of the population of the islands. But he held also
that whites in the. West Indies had a claim of the most
distinct nature on the humanity, equity, and justice of
the House.—(Hear, hear.) Be thought they had a
right to ask for public money as sufferers at
the hands of the Legislature. In the case of the
apprenticeship we had abolished a system which was as
much a part of the compensation to the West India
planters as the twenty millions of money voted to them.
Even in Jamaica no option could be said to have
been left to the planters as to whether they should or
should not abolish the apprenticeship two years before
the statutory period for its abolition. Then, as to immi-
gration, the West Indians now find the people of Eng-
land willing to vote money for that purpose. But the
West Indians justly observed that they had been agitat-
ing this question for 12 years, and that every restraint
and restriction had been interposed. We at first prohi-
bited wholly the removal of coolies from the East Indies.
Then we fixed the period for which contracts might be
made with them at no more than one year. The Noble
Lord, to his honour, tried hard to restrain that sort of
philanthropic movement, but he was beaten by the op-
position of Members who were now the ministers for
colonial affairs.—(Hear.) The West Indies now said,
you offer us what we asked too late; we have been ex-
hausted by the efforts of the intermediate period. There
could be no doubt that this was true, and on these
grounds, therefore, the West Indies had, in his
opinion, a good claim upon the state. He
now came to consider the mode in which her Majesty's
Government proposed to meet and satisfy this
claim. As he said before. he did not think the amount
of relief by any means adequate to the necessity. Their
object, he thought, ought to be to induce the people of
this country to give a fair and full trial to the system of
free labour as carried out in our colonies. Ile did not
think it was well to adopt that principle without going
to the full length that justice and policy permitted.
Then came the question as to the form in which relief
should be given. Some Members thought it was de-
sirable that we should retrace our steps with regard
to the question of protection. He felt, however, that
there would be great difficulty and delicacy in im-
posing again a very high protective duty. He could
riot but think that a great reaction with regard to
protective duty would diminish very much the care and
the caution with which estates were worked and labour
employed in the West Indies. He was not of opinion
that it would be wise to take a backward course with
regard to the scale. But, at the same time, he should
prefer to the Government plan a simple suspension
of the existing scale of duties. He thought it by no
means desirable that we should have minute subdivi-
sions and alterations of descending scales. The propo-
sition we wished to make was not the sort of proposition
given by the man who wished to teach his house to live
upon a bean a day. Our proposition should rather be
that of encouraging the importation of labour and ma-
chinery.—(Hear, hear.) He must also say that he
thought the reduction of the duty upon colonial sugar
from 14s. to 13s. was most impolitic as a question of
finance. In consequence of that minute distinction the
Noble Lord, it was said, was about to prohibit once
again the use of sugar in breweries and distilleries.
This added very greatly to the impolicy of the mea-
sure. Then, again, he was not by any means satisfied
with the declaration of the Noble Lord respecting va-
grancy and squatting in the colonies. The Noble Lord
said they would be prepared to receive suggestions on
those points. It was rather the duty of the Under-
Secretary for the Colonies to propose such measures than
to sit in his office, as the Noble Lord had pictured him,
in order to " receive suggestions."—(Hear.) Then as to
the loan. He could not help regretting that au exclu-
sive direction had been given to the employment of the
loan. The mind of the West Indies was quite sufficiently
directed to the subject of immigration relatively with
other questions; and he thought the money might be as
usefully applied in improvements as in immigration. He
then came to a very important part of the subject, upon
which he must say that he did wish some intention had
been intimated on the part of the Government to give the
colonial legislature a greater discretion with regard to
their expenditure. In British Guiana, he believed, it
was absolutely declared that one-third the revenue was
swallowed up in the expenses of Government. The ex-
penses of colonies in which there were no local govern
meats were considerably less than in those which had
such an established authority. The sacrifice we were
going to make, whilst it would not save a fraction to the
colonial legislature, would, on the other hand, add, be-
yond all measure, to the burdens of this country.
Would there be any increase of consumption sufficient
to compensate for this by raising the revenue in
Great Britain? Ile believed not. He had observed
that whenever such reductions of duty were made a
very small increase of consumption followed. Next year
they would lose 240,0001., unless consumption increased ;
that was the immediate sacrifice. They were going to
exclude sugar from the breweries. It was said 12,000
tons were consumed in these establishments. That would
involve a loss of 150,0001. more. Then, in future years,
this loss might be expected to be still greater.—(Hear,
hear.) And under what circumstances was this great
sacrifice proposed ? If they looked at the finances of
the country everything was deficiency. Their financial
state was most serious, and it was growing more and
more so every day. They would not be doing their duty
to the country without looking that part of the question
in the face before the expiration of the session. They
must provide relief for the colonies, but they must pre.
viously see how that relief was financially to be afforded
He knew how unpopular a proposal of relief to a class
interest was ; but when Members took him to task, as
they probably would do, for advising it, let them meet
the claim upon the ground of justice, upon which alone
he rested it. Let it not be said that when we set the
great example of emancipating our colonies, we took all
the honour to ourselves, and left all the cost and respon-
sibility to the West Indians.
Mr. J. WILSON said he had listened to the speech
of the Right Hon. Gentleman with no little interest,
and much surprise. Nothing could be more euriou,
than to reconcile, if it were possible, his objections to
rmopeoestednotogrgeiavtee.
to He
P r
should be very gthe measure withl
a
d
thief
hveotehadlie
objec-
tions of the Right lion. Gentleman. What single
ob
jections to the plan of the Government than the
dment? The Right
which was the object of the amen
reason had he assigned for voting for that 108. duty
es had the
West Indian grievances; but what grevilce that had
c
lion. Gentleman thought much of what were called
i
West Indian complained of a few years sift),
not been wholly or partially eyed? he prohibi
rem
tion of purchasing except in British markets was
removed--the rum duties had been reduced—the juice
of the cane was admitted—and the West Indians
were permitted to refine in their own islands. But
it was complained that immigration was checked.
Why, Honourable Gentlemen would not recollect the
facts. As far back as 1840 facilities were given for im-
migration, and almost every year those facilities were
increased. There were really no grievances, therefore,
which had not been removed, or which were not in
course of removal. But at the same time it was thought
that the distress, from whatever cause arising, was vary
severe in the West Indies. Measures of relief were to

be applied to it, and the problem they had to solve was.
in which way they could apply them most usefully to the
colonists and least detrimentally to the mother-country.
In the course of the debate reference had been made to
the state of our West India colonists, and an alarming
picture was drawn of their condition because the average
of the sugar produced in the two years 1846 7, hi Ja-
maica, was 225. 6d. per cwt. But the year 1816 was a
year of great drought, and a year, consequently, when
the crop was much less than the average. He knew
cases of estates in Jamaica where sugar was made at
4s. 6d. per cwt., Bs. a cwt., 9s. a cwt., and 103.
a cwt. ; and he believed in not over. favourable
years the cost of production had been not
above an average of 16s. a cwt. In 1846, however, there
were estates where the sugar cost more than 31. per cwt.,
and he verily believed that the drought of that year had
more to do than almost any other cause with the depres-
sion in the West Indies at the present time. Now, look-
ing at Demerara and Essequibo, he had a return in his
hand showing the numbers of estates sold in consequence
of bankruptcies, and it was curious that during the last
two years the number of such sales was much less than
during any of the six preceding. This was a fact of
some importance. Let him mention another cause for
the depression in the trade. In consequence of the ad-
mission of sugar to breweries and distilleries large im-
ports had been made of foreign sugar last year, an the
consequence was, a very considerable reduction in price
We imported in the first four mouths of last year 79,000
boxes of sugar from Cuba, whilst in the same period of
this year we only imported 8,000 boxes, showing that
last 3 ear the foreign trade was unduly stimulated.—
(Hear, hear.) From 1834 to 1841 the state of the sugar
trade in the West Indies was very depressed ; but from
1841 to the present time their produce had been annually
on the increase. He believed there was indubit-
able proof of the progressive improvement of
the West Indies.—(Great laughter)—Gentlemen
might laugh, but he believed such to be the fact.
The re-establishment of a system of protection would be
most injurious to the colonies. Had not there been a
struggle going on in them for effecting a reduction of
wages, and were not Hon. Gentlemen aware of the par-
tial success that had attended those efforts? In the colo-
nies of Barbadoes, Antigua, and Guiana—(No)--the
reductions in wages amounted to from 25 to 50 per cent.,
and would it be wise, in the face of these efforts, to re-
duce the cost of cultivation to re-establish protective
duties, and thus to afford to the negro labourers a pre-
text for insisting upon their former high rates of wages?
Nothing could be more prejudicial to the West Indies
than to follow such a course. The great difficulty, as he
apprehended, in dealing with the colonies, was in stimu-
lating consumption, so as to keep pace with their con-
stantly increasing amount of production. The consump-
tion of sugar within the last three years had increased
from 207,000 tons to 290,000 tons, and this was one of
the direct and palpable consequences of the reduction
of the duty in 1845 and 1846. Suppose, instead of re-
ducing the duty, it had been increased, and the
production of sugar had gone on at the same
rate as it bad done, what would have become of
the 70,000 surplus tons of West India sugar thus
thrown upon the English market ? Could they
have been sent into the foreign European market to
compete with Cuba and Brazilian sugars ? Then,
again, let him point out to the House the tact that there
were vast tracts of virgin soil in Trinidad and the West
India islands which had never been cultivated, and
which were capable of producing any quantity of sugar.
In Trinidad one-seventh only of the land was cultivated
as yet ; whereas, the sugar lands in Cuba and Brazil
were worn-out soil, and not able to compete with the
rich alluvial soil of the West Indies. The same was true
of the laud in the East Indies. The possibility of re-
storing protection under these facts was out of the ques-
tion ; and if, by encouraging a system of emigration,
additional labour was thrown into the West Indies a
fresh stimulus was given to production, what, he might
ask, would be the condition of the planters generally, if
with an increased production of one half of the present
amount, there were to be no home consumption equal to
the additional quantity thus thrown upon the market ?
How, therefore, could the planters expect that the home
consumption would keep pace with the production unless
at prices which placed sugar within the reach of the
mass of the people ? and how could those prices be kept
within reasonable limits if increased protection was to
be granted on those sugars which were the principal
article of consumption in the home market ? There
was not a man who had sat on the West India
Committee, and who took a candid view of the whole
question, but what was persuaded that, take what mea-
sures they would for giving protection, the West and
East India colonies would annually produce more sugar
than the consumption of the kingdom could keep pace
with. Therefore, he said that there was no possible
safety for the British planters but in throwing them
open to their rivals in sugar-growing, and thus stimu-
lating their powers of production to the utmost. En-
tertaining these views, he was not able to support the
motion of the Honourable Baronet the Member for
Droitwich, for the first effect which his proposition
would produce, would be to raise the price of
sugar, and thus to diminish the consumption of
that article. Moreover the proposition, if adopted,
would injure the revenue, either by diminish-
ing the duty received on West India sugars, or else
by greatly lessening the quantity consumed.
And 0.1 one or other of these grounds he, as
a member of the West India Committee, felt it his duty
to reject the motion. He would now proceed to say a
few words on the proposition of the Government, and
to endeavour to show how far it was more advantageous
than that of the Protectionist party. The first object
which Government sought to attain was to give such en-
couragement to the growth of sugar in the British pos-
sessions as would promote a superabundant supply for
borne consumption. The mode of best effecting this
important object was, in the opinion of the Government,
by means of a gradually decreasing duty, and thereby
gradually stimulating consumption. Looking at the in-
crease, in this respect, that had resulted from the re-
duction of the duty in 1845 and 1841, the Government
was, in his opinion, acting wisely in enabling the core-
sumer to look distinctly forward to the day when all
protection ceased in tuto. The Right Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Oxford University bad stated that he
should have preferred suspending the duties for six
years from the present time to making a permanent and
gradual reduction in them. But he knew, as all who
heard him did, that the price of sugar was regulated
by the amount of the foreign duty, and not by the
colonial duty. The suspension of the duty for six
years would cause the consumption of that necessary to
remain stationary and stagnant for that space of time,
and thus there would be no means whatever left the Go-
vernment of providing for the consumption of the steadily
proceeding annual increase in the production of free la-
bour colonies in the British dominions. Besides, there
was another objection to the Right Hon. Gentleman's
plan, which was, that at the end of the six years the
sudden reduction of the duty would paralyse the sugar
market, and throw the whole trade into confusion. The
proposition of the government was therefore far prefer-
able to that of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Another of
his objections to the Government scheme was, that ae•
cording to his view of the Chancellor's statement the
Government was about to exclude sugars from being
consumed in breweries and distilleries as soon as the
planlad
tporocpororseeodt sthhiosumldiscaopmpreehionntosionopoernattihoon.p
artil of wase
th the
g
ofGtehnetlEemxtionh,egainedr
mtoorionifyormprophoimaedthtoatahthoet
breweries as soon as the duty fell to
sugarCti ih
agathndtc
eeogHl
out from
roteoren
at which a loss would be incurred by its
superseding malt, and thus reducing the receipts of the
revenue from that source. But this would not be as long
as the duty was at or above 125.; therefore, three years
yet remained before sugar would be thrown out of use
in breweries. In distilleries it would continue to be
used. With respect to the duties on colonial rum, the
n r e eavneddt
taking
nthe
intoe maootionota on ft
recentr e a d
yh
reduction,ee
the former reduction of sd. per gallen, the whole amount
50,000 t planters
by hatdhea l
thus presented to the West Indians was no less a sum
than 110,0001. This, added to the whole amounts of
former reductions, would swell the gratuities presented
to the planters to between 300,0004 and 400,0004, taking
the whole export of rum from all the colonies into the
account. He had felt great surprise when he heard the
Hon. Baronet opposite make such statements as he had
done with respect to the cost of producing sugar in
Cuba, Bahia, and Porto Rico, because the returns from
consular authorities in other places, printed in the
report of the West India Committee, showed that the
figures of the Hon. Baronet were not correct. The
consul•general for Havana, Mr. Crawford, states
that the cost of producing sugar there, including export
duties, was 17s. 6d. per cwt., and this without freight
and charges, or the cost of replacing negroes. In Bahia,
Mr. Consul Porter states the cost of production to be
17s. 6d., with the same limitations; and at Porto
Rico, Mr. Consul Lindegren gives the cost of produc-
tion as 12s. 6d. per cwt., without adding anything for
replacing slaves, interest of capital, and other charges.
The average cost of producing sugars in these three
slave colonies, therefore, instead of being 6s. lOid., as
stated by the Hon. Baronet, was in reality 15s. 10d.,
and if estimated without adding the export duties, which
might at any time be repealed, the minimum cost of pro-
duction in the three slave colonies was 14s. Bd. per cwt.,
and that was to be looked at as extending over all the
three qualities of sugar produced in those colonies. He
regretted that he had so inadequately expressed his
opinions. There were many topics which he had un-
avoidably omitted, but at that late hour he could not
think of longer detaining the House.—(Hear, hear.)
He should only say further, that he felt firmly con-
vinced that there could be no more effectual way of en-
couraging slavery than to restore the protection of co •
lonial sugar.
On the motion of Mr. W. MILES the debate was
adjourned to to-morrow (this day).
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. WAWN, who had risen several times while Mr.
Wilson was addressing the House, and who appeared
much excited, complained, amid,loud cries of" Question,
that one of the Hon. Members for Berwick had just ad-
dressed the most offensive language to him, and had, in
fact, threatened to strike him within the walls of the
[louse.—(Laughter, and cries of " Qestion.") He
thought it his duty to call the attention of the House to
the matter. He was quite ready to meet any complaint
of the Hon. Member out of the House, but in the
[louse he thought himself entitled to the protection of
the Chair.
No notice being taken of the Hon. Member's obser-
vations he immediately left the House.
AMENDMENT OF THE POOR-LAW.
Mr. C. BULLER moved for leave to bring in the fol-
lowing Bills:—A Bill to alter the provisions relating to
the charges for the relief of the poor in unions, and the
mode of payment thereof, and to provide for the relief
of the poor in extra-parochial places ; a Bill to make
provisions for the payment of parish debts, the audit of
parochial and union accounts, and the allowance of cer-
tain charges therein ; a Bill to amend the law for the
formation of districts for the education of infant poor ;
and a Bill to authorise the payment of superannuation

allowances to officers engaged ii; the admini. tration of
the laws for the relief of the pc or. He pro wised the
House that if permitted to bring in the Bills tb .ey should
have ample time to consider them I) efore ho asked for
Another stage.
After a few words from Mr. lIEN:4BY 1 3511'0 was
given.

SUPPRESSION OF PIRAC"..7:.
On the motion of Mr. M'GREGOR leave Was given
to bring in a Bill to amend the Act of the 11 ill and 12th
)ears of King William 111. for the more el Tectual sup-
pression of piracy, and for affording additio. 3EII protec-
Lion to merchant seamen.

CONSTABVLARY (IRELAND). •
On the motion of Sir W. SOMERVILLE leave was
.iven to bring in a Bill to amend the Acts 1 'elating to
the constabulary force in Ireland.
The House adjourned at Half-past One c

PARLIAMENTARY MVP. IiONS.

'mow.)

(From the Yotes and Proceedings of the House o, °
THURSDAY, JUNE 22.
GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY (BRANCH FROM
SLOUGH TO WINDSOR) BILL.
(Queen's Consent signified) • Motion made, an' 1 question
proposed, .6 That the Bill be now read the ,thi rd; time:"
—Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " no ,w,", and at
die end of the Question to add the words" upon tb as day six
months ."—Question put, " That the word , nova i stand part
of the Question." The House divided :--
MAJORITY—AYES, 224.
Foley, J. H. Osborne, • Ralph
Forbes, W. Ossulton, . Lord
Fordyce, A. D. Pakingto oir J.
Forster, M. Patten, J. • Si' •
Fortescue, J. W. Pennant, * colonel
Fox, W. J. Philips, Si, 7 G. K.
Frewen, C. 11. Pilkington, James
G,ldard, A. L. Plowden, V, T. H.
Grace, 0. D. Price, Sir R •
Granger, T. C. Primo, Ricb alit
Greenall, Gilbert Pugh, David.
Greene, John Fusel', P.
Greene Thomas Remileshans, Lord
Rale, It. B. Reyno'lds, J ohlr.
Hall, Sir B. Ricardo,. J. ',—
Hall, Colonel Ricardo,. Osman
iianmer, Sir J. Rice, E. .
Harcourt, G. Rich, He ury
Hawes, B. Robartes, T. J.
Hay, Lord J. Raiford, 1 "r•Mcis
Hayes, Sir E. Rushout, ( 3aptain
Ilayter, W. 3, Russell, F. C.
Ileathcote, G. J. Rutherfurd , A.
Ileathcote, Sir W. Salwey, Colonel
Henley, J. W. Scully,Frat teas
Hill, Lord E. ' Seaham, V i scount
Hindley, C. Shafto, R. D.
Ilobhouse, T. B. Shell, R. I:.
Holland, Robert : Shelburne, Earl of
Hood, Sir Alexander Shirley, E.. J.
Hope, H. T. Sidney, Al Berman
Hornby, John Slaney, Bois ,rt A.
liorsinan, Edward Smith, B. V..
Howard, C. W. Smith, M. Ts icker
Howard, E. G. Somerset, Cs iptain
Hughes, W. R. Somerville. S lr W.
Hume, Joseph, Sotheron, T. WI. S.
Ingestre, Visct. Spearman, IL. J.
Jervis, Sir John Spooner, Rich and
Jollifle, Sir W. H. Stafford, Augustas
Kerrison, Sir E. Stanfield, W. R.
Knox, Colonel Stanton, W.UL
Labouchere, Henry Stuart, Lord J.
Langston, J. H. Talbot, J. 11.
Lemon, Sir Charles Taliburd,. Sergeant
Littleton, E. R. Tancred, H. W.
Loch, James Tennent, it. J.
Lushington, C. Thickness e, Ralph
Lygon, General Thompson, Colonel
M'Cullagh, W. T. Thompson, George
Maher, N. Thornely, I'.
Maitland, Thomas Tollemache , F.l.
Marsh.ll, J.IG. Trelawny, .ir. S.
Martin, C. W. Tufnell„ Hel try
Manley Fox Turner, Ede aund
Menx, Sir IL Urquhart, L ortvid
Miles, I'. W. S. Vane, Lord H.
Miles, William Verner, Sir W.
Mitchell, T. A. . Yesey, Hort. T.
Moffatt, George Villiers, Viscount
Molesworth, sir W. • Villiers, F..W.
Monsell, William Vivian, J. E.
Moody, O. A. Vivian, J. H.
Morgan, 0. Vyvyan, Sir R.
Morpeth, Viscount IVawn, J. T.
Morris, David Williams, John
Mostyn, E. M. Williamson, Sir' 11.
Mowatt, Francis Willoughby, Sir H.
Mulgrave, Earl Wilson, James;
Mullings, J. R. Wilson, Matthew
Neeld, John Wood, W. P.
"lorreys, Lord Worcester, Marquis
Nugent, Lord
O'Connell, M. J.
Ogle, S. C.
Ord, W.

Abdy, T. N.
Aeland, Sir T. D.
Adair, Ilugh E.
Adair, R. Shafto
Anson, Colonel

Austey, Thomas C.
A.rchdall, Captain
.krinstrong, Sir A.
.shley, Lord

Baines, M. T.

3aldock, E. H.
Baring, Henry
_ __ ~..

Barnard, E.O.
Barron, Sir 11.
Bellew, It. M.

Bennet, Philip

Beutinek, Lord IL
Berkeley, Captain
Berkeley, Grantley
Blackall, S. IV.
Blackstone, W. S.
Illandford, Marquis
Blowitt, Reginald
Bolder°, 11. G.
Bouverie, E. P,
Bowles, Admiral
Bovring, Dr.
Boyd, John
Boyle, Colonel

Brand, Thomas
Brotherton, Joseph
Bruce, Lord E.
Buller, Sir J. Y.
Buller, Charles
Burke, Sir Thomas
Carew, W. H. Pole
Cavendish, C. C.
Cavendish' G. H.
Charter's, Francis
Clay, James ,
Clive, It. H.
Clive, Henry B.—
Cobh°ld, John C.
Cobden, R.
Cochrane, A.
Cocks, homas S.
Codrington,• Sir W.
Conolly, Col.

Cotton, W. H.
Courtenay, Lord
Dalrymple, Captain
D'Eyncourt, T.

Divett, Edw.ard
Dod, J. W.
Duckworth, Sir J.
Duff, George S.
Duncan, George
Duncombe, 0.

Dundas, Admiral
Dundas, Sir D.
Dundas, George
Ebrington, Viscount
Edwards, Henry
Elliot, John E.
Estcourt, J. B. B.
Euston, Earl
Evans, Sir De Lacy
Evans, John
Evans, William

Ewart, William

Fagan, William
Fagan, James
Farrer, James

Ferguson, Sir R.
Filmer, Sir E.

TELLERS.
Barrington, Viscount
Walpole, Spencer

MINORITY—NOES, 97.
Adderley, C. B. Gladstone, W. E. Milner, W. M.
Baillie, H. J. Glyn, George Carr Milnes, R. Moncktou
Bankes, G. Gooch, E. S. Muntz, G. F.
Benbow, John Gore, W. 0. Newdegate, C. N.
Benett, J. Goulburn, Henry O'Connor, Feargus
licntinck, Lord G. Grenfell, C. Pascoe PAcke, C. IV.
Ileresford, William Halford, Sir H. Penlarves, Edward
Broadley, 11. Hamilton, Lord C. Pigotf,. Francis
Brown, H. Hamilton, J. H. Rieharkts, Richard
Bruce, C. L. C. Harris, Captain Sadleir, .Tolin
Burghley, Lord Hastie, Alexander Sandars, t.jeOrge
Burrell, Sir.C. Heneage,Edward Scott, F.
Campbell, W. F. Herbert, Henry A. Sumer, Hen IT aer
Cardwell, Edward Herbert, Sidney Smyth, John ,C•
Chandos, Marquis of Hervey, Lord A. Smythe, G.
Chaplin,X. J. Hildyard, R. C. Smollett, AI
Childers, J. W. Hildyard, T: B. Stephenson, Robert
Christy, Samuel Hodgson, W. N. Sullivan, Michael
Clay, Sir W. Hope, A. : aylor, Thomas E.
Clerk Sir G. 7 Ilouldsworth, T. Towneley, Charles
Collins, William Hudson, G. Townley, R.G.
Cubittt, William Inglis, Sir. It. Trollope, Sir J.
Currie, Henry Johnstone, Sir J Tyrrell, Sir J.
Douglas, Sir C. Jones, Captain Vyse, R. 11.
Druinmond, Henry Keogh, William Waddington,' David
Duncan, Lord King, P. J. Waddington, 11. S.
Duncuft, John Lacy, 11. C. Wall, C. B.
Da Pre, C. G. Lincoln, Earl o Welby, G. E.
East, Sir,J. B. Locke, Joseph Westhead, J. P.
Egerton, IV. T. Lockhart, W.
Farnham, E. Mahon, Lord TELLERS.
Forester, G. C. Mandeville, Viscount Disraeli, B.
Fuller, A. E.: Mangles, It. 1). Reid, Colonel
Galway,,Viscount Manners,iLord C.