The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-26 00:00:00

COMMITTEE-OF SUPPLY.

The order of the day for going into Committee of Supply having
been read,
Mr. WILLIAMS said he had to complain of the manner in which
the miscellaneous estimates were to be-brought before the House.
He had not received a copy of them' until this morning, and he un-
derstood they were to be brought on tonight. Now, he should say
that he never before heard of the miscellaneous estimates being
brought on before the Army and Navy estimates; and he did not
think it was anything better than a farce to send so short a notice of
estlinat.^s like those, which contained so many hundreds of items.
. .

Mr. CARDWELL said they had been brought forward according
to their order in the list.

Mr. HUME expected that notice of those estimates would have
been sent out at least 15 days ago.
The CH INCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Govern-
ment had no wish to depart from the usual course ; but these esti-
mates contained so many items that they necessarily forced on them
the attention of the Government.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the usual course was to begin with

the army or navy estimates, and to take the miscellaneous estimates
last. He should say that the present appeared to him to be rather
an unusual course, for he did not expect that the House would be
called upon to agree to those estimates without any notice whatever.
Mr. V. SMITH would wish to know whether it was the intention
to bring on these estimates without, any notice.
Sir R. INGLIS said he had ree-ived a copy of the estimates, by
which it appeared that they had been erAred to be printed so tar
back as the sth May.
Mr. AGLIONBY was surprised that the questions put by the Hon
Member near him had not been answered.
Mr. CARDWELL said the only cause of delay in printing the
estimates was their great length.
Sir R. PEEL said the vote was necessary, and he hoped the House
would not consider that her Majesty's Government was taking it by
surprise.
The House then went into Committee on the
MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES AND CIVIL CONTINGENCIES.
Upon a vote of 50,000/. to her Majesty for civil contingencies
having been proposed,
Mr. WILLIAMS said he could not agree to that large sum. There
were various items paid out of that money which had no business to
be paid at all. He found a sum of 6001. was paid to the Bishop of
Tripoli, and another sum to the Bishop of another place, and he
really could not see why so much money should be squandered. An-
other item was that of 3501. to Sir Strafford Canning for defraying
the expenses of an excursion which was of no benefit to this country.
He found another sum of 10,0001. set down towards paying the ex-
penses of the Relief Commission in Ireland. There was another sub-
ject they had a few nights ago a discussion on, the payment of the
officers of the Exchequer. He wished to know whether these officers
had all discharged their duty. Then he would turn to the Church of
Scotland, and when be saw the way in which the Independent
hurch of Scotland had come forward with their 100,0001., he really
did think it was not right for the paid Church of Scotland to come to
the Government and ask for public assistance. He wished to know
what the Government intended to do with respect to these claims ?
Mr. CARDWELL would go through the several points for his no-
tice of which he expressed himself obliged.' With regard to the con-
veyance of ecclesiastical persons on board of her Majesty's vessels, it
was considered that it was decided that when the Government de-
termined that these persons should be conveyed at the public expense,
it would be improper to oblige the captains of the several vessels to
make out bills. When it was recollected that the bishops went out
for a great public object, he was quite sure that the small charge of
171. in one instance, and of 1201. in another, would not he considered
to be excessive. Then with regard to badges the whole expense
appeared to be only about 1,5001. ; and as to the charge for the visits
of foreign potentatse, with which the country was sometimes grati-
fied, it was evident that they must be borne by some one, and no-
body was so competent or ao proper to bear the expense as the
country at large. Then, with regard to the costs of legal reforms, he
had to say that these charges were very shorth to cease, and did not
now exceed 6,0001. With regard to the established societies the
amount was but small, and one which had always been recognised,
as that he trusted that no objcation would be made to it.
Mr. HUME could not see why this country shol 1 pay 6001. for a
governor to Australia, and pay it to other colonies. He would say
that if Australia could not afford to pay their own governor, they
should be left to themselves. He also condemned the niggardly sum
paid to French sailors and others for saving the lives of English sub-
jects, which sums, when compared with the large treasure wasted
upon other and less deserving objects, worked very miserably indeed.
He had next to complain of the sum of over 7,0001. for the Commis-
sion to Ireland, which he thought too much, and 3001. for the attend-
ance of the short-hand writer at political meetings in that country,
which he should condemn as a system of espionage that was quite
un-English.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that with regard
to the sum of 10,000/. set down to the Commission in Ireland he could
assure the House that that item was not for the expense of the Com-
mission alone, but for that purpose together with the purpose of
giving relief to the poor of that country.
After a few words from Mr. CHAPMAN and Mr. AGLIONHT,
Mr. lIAWES said that he wished for some information re-
specting the vote. lie saw that there was certain allowance to the
Commissioners for the Colonies, and he desired to ascertain what the
expenses really were. A Commission was appointed in 1841 to in-
quire into the expenditure of the colonies. Then last year there had
been another inquiry promised by his Hon Friend opposite. This was
with respect to.a charge for 445/. for making up an abstract
account, and he could not possibly understand how a charge of
between 400/. and 5001. a year was to be made for making up an ab-
stract account. Then there was another charge for furnishing the
police and appendages in Scotland-yard, which he could not at all
understand. Then ho observed another vote for the the amount of
1,8001. to assist the publication of the work of the zoology of South
Africa. He wished to know whether there were any profits from
this work. Bat he had heard of many such works in which there
were no profits. Yet he would not object to the vote on that account,
for he believed there were many valuable works which ought to ob
Lain the assistance of Government. Then there was a charge of
1,1801. for the expenses of drawing up the Metropolitan
Building Act, and really he thought that the whole
sum ought to be levied as a fine upon the drawers of that
Rill, for a more bungling or inefficient Act had he believed never
been presented to Parliament. He had drawn his catalogue to a con-
clusion, and hoped that a satisfactory answer would be given to his
observations.
In reply, Mr. CARDWELL went through the several items of one
or two of the accounts, but stated that the general answer was, that
the accounts were so voluminous that It was utterly impossible to go
through them. But he might say, that with regard to the scientific
work on South Africa, it was conceived advisable to render the
assistance of the book for public purposes.
HARBOURS OF REFUGE.
In answer to a question from Sir CHARLEST.SPIER, in reference
to harbours of refuge on the south-eastern.coast of England,
Captain CARNEGIE said that a Commission had presented a
report on the subject to the Lords of the Treasury, but nothing had
as yet been determined upon.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that he had suggestdd plans by which mil-
lions would be saved to the revenue, but they had not boon adopted.
Mr. uumE found fault with the expenses incurred in the payment
of the fees allowed to officers engaged in the carrying out of confer-
ring titles of baronets, Orders of the Garter, and also of granting
Patents, which latter he was disposed to question the right of the
Queen to interfere in.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged to remind the
Hon. Member that there were only 24 Knights of the Garter, and
trta if a vacancy
should occur in them before the expense of the In-
. tla n of a new one, the expense would be incurred by the party
seeking the honour.
After a few words from Mr. W. ESCOTT, the vote was agreed to.
Upon a vote of 121,5781. being proposed for the expences of public
works, and for furnishing the same,
Mr. HUME wished to know how much of that sum was expended
upon the beautifying of Windsor Castle. He wished to have the
exact items made known to the country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the items
were not kept back in consequence of any misappropriation of the
jleoostym thole. Queena-
yea r ;
Do
funds,
Mr. WILLIA3fS would oppose the further grant of 1001. for the
therefore
egmh
o e
move
ttihleatthe publicea tmimonaeteyi
be
it
further beautifying of Marlborough House. He thought her Ma-
awndagheer whadOuldqutihteeree
one hundred pounds less, for it was quite time to put a stop to gross
extravagance. the There was an item put down for the expences of
royal ecclesiastical commissioner in Scotland, and be
.should
certainly object to the a
Mr. . fiILIONBY A amount unless it were properly explained.
defended the Commission, and stated that the
estimates were no more than ju
by the operation of the commiss
to The public had greatly benefited
Mr. WILLIAMS, after a few words ftom the
Exchequer, objected to the eaumate Chancellor of the
cathedrals in Scotland. s for repairing buildings and
Mr. HUME did not concur with all the 'Observations of the Hon.
Gentleman. lie was of ()pluton that the old buildings should not be
allowed to fall into decay, and that a moderate estimate should be
set apart to cover the expenses of repairs. He should not object to
the estimate.
1)r. BOWRING objected to 1501. for Government buildings in the
Isle of Man. He saw no reason why that claim should be made on
the Consolidated Fund, while the surplus revenue of that island did
not go to the Consolidated Fund.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think the ob-
servation of the Hon. Gentleman quite consistent with the views
which lie usually entertained with regard to local expenditure on
public works.
After some further objections with regard to the expense of pro-
vidingomModatien
acc for of the the deposit public records and
other Items in the grant, the vote was agreed to.
14,000/. was granted for the expenses of erecting a palm-house
at New. being proposed to defray the expense of
On the item of 15,5.8
accommodation for the Houses of Parliament
providing temporary accomrn
Committee-rooms, &c., ress his dissatisfaction at this
Mr. WILLIAMS could not but express
large sum. cool
bear testimony to the fact
Mr. PROTHEROE said, that he c
had bee" a Member of the) Old
of the eervices of Dr. Reid. He
a'r of this House was
was sure that e
House of Commons, and he
ere vt as no d eV' that the
much more pure than that of the perfect but it was Much improved
ventilation was not as yet quite p h
upon the old plan. mots of
testumoy the linprqvo
General EVANS could bear
Dr. Reid. -
nt Too Wile t Agreed O.