The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-24 00:00:00

of legislative functions that could be named this was on
which required to be entrusted to tribunals of a different kind
than that of a Committee of this House, he hoped that the
difficulties which the country and the Parliament had now got
into would lead to son.e steps being taken by that House
which, he must say, should have been adopted years before.
There was some ground for encouragement even in the pre-
sent state of affairs, because, from the very necessity of the ease,
better arrangements would be made for managing the private
business of tke House. He felt grateful to the Noble garl
fur the statement of the opinions of her Majesty's Goverment
upon this subject, for the candour, as well as the unadorned
and severely fitting nature of the statements on the occasion.
He felt thankful to the Government fur bringing forward so

necessary a measure as the present.
The Earl of WICKLOW considered that the expense of
taking Bills through both Houses of Parliament would form a
prominent part of consideration in the meetings that were to
be held under the provisions of the proposed Act, and he
thought it necessary, for a right consideration of the case, that
correct data of those expenses should be accessible to them.
The Marquis of SALISBURY had as great a horror of the
railway mania. He thought, however, they would have some
reason to creed the winding up of these affairs. There was
one point in the measure proposed by the Noble Earl to which
he would call the attention of their Lordships.
It was proposed to require three-fifths of the scrip-
holders to assent to the winding up of the concern. The
meeting was to represent one-third of the scripholders of the
company. It would require three-fifths of those present to
assent to the petition to their Lordships. It would, therefore,
empower two-fifths to prevent the Bill passing, but they
would not have the power to wind up the concern. He would
also be glad to know how the amount of the scrip present was
to he taken under the arrangements propo-ed in the Bill?

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought it a wise measure
as regarded England, but when he taw that it extends to Ire-
land and Scotland he thought the proposed measure an indica-
tion of the disposition of the Government towards those countries
—they were endeavouring to put a stop to what was called the
railway mania. The evils which had been described by the
Noble Earl who had proposed the Bill were sufficient to justify
the ste that was about to be taken. But what was the railway
mania? Why it was neither more nor less than that upon
which &pi nded the great communications of this great
country. Railways, in a military point of view, were
of the utmost importance, and the Legislature must
be careful how they checked their construction. For
some years past he had thought the Government ought
to have taken some step upon this subject. If they had done
so years ago the present railway mania never would have
existed. At present, and under existing circumstances, the
proposed resolutions were necessary, and, so far, he could not
object to them ; but he would remind the Government that
in Ireland especially it was their duty to take the railways under
their care and control, and if they did so, there could
be no doubt that railways would be made without
embarrassing the country.
The Earl of ROSEBERY rose for the purpose of putting
a question to the Noble Earl who had proposed the resolutions.
He apprehended that his Noble Friend did not intend this ses-
sional order to become a standing order upon which Parliament
was to proceed in future, hut merely as a sessional order for
the regulation of the proceedings of the House during the pre-
sent session. It was desirable under existing circumstances

to facilitate the winding up of companies with as little incon-
venience a- possib‘e.
Lord ASHBURTON said it was useless to complain of what
should have been done some time ago. The real question
they had to consider was the peculiar and anomalous position
in which they found themselves placed, and the wisest course
it behoved them to take. Taking that position into con-
sideration, he must say, that as far as he understood the
Bill submitted, with the sessional order with which it was ac-
companied, it appeared to him the best means of relieving
them from the difficulty in which they at present stood, and
to meet the evil arisins from the enormous demand on the
capital and labour of the country, which stood in the way of
the legitimate commerce of the ceuntry.—( Hear, hear.) He
must, at the same time, remind the Noble Lords who sat on the
Railway Committee, at the early period of the session, that he
( Lord Ashburton) stated very similar views to those stated
that night, respecting the difficulty in which they would find
themselves placed.—( Hear, hear.) It was impossible to
go on with the present mass of adventure, which was beyond
the means of the country to accomplish in any reasonable time.
A Noble Lord opposite had referred to the case of Ireland,
and the relief which the construction of railways would afford
in the peculiar circumstances of the country ; but, however
anxious they might be to relieve Ireland, they must recollect
that if they went beyond the means of the capital of the
country, instead of benefiting Ireland, they would clog all pro-
ceedings intended for that purpose, and defeat the very end
sought to be obtained.—( Hear, hear.) He must say, con-
sidering the peculiar circumstances of the country, that the
measure was a necessary one to meet the difficulties.
His object was to insure the classification of these several
schemes, and he thought that this classification ought to be
observed—that is, that the several railway schemes ought to
be apportioned into classes. He was aware, that under
the direction of the Noble Lords who had formed the Com-
mittee, that certain lines ought to he preferred, and
the first class they recommended was that which
comprised the lines of the national defences. The next
class was that which was described as being likely to fill up
gaps in established railways; though, if the business were to be
conducted as it was at present devised, there was little proba-
bility of obtaining their Acts during the present session. It
was much to be regretted that such should be the case, as the
passing of these Bills was likely to contribute largely to the
advantage of the public The next class was that which was
called the offspring of the strong companies, more particularly
those of the Great Western, South-Western, and the London
and Birmingham, and others of a similar character, which com-
panies, from their enormous incomes, possessed all the ap-
pliances for carrying out their designs. lie was not aware of
the precise feelings of - the Government, but he thought
it was necessary to look to the results of such pre-
ference ; and he must say, that in the consideration of the
Select Committees the object of the national benefit should
be particularly observed—(Cheers)—particularly when the
object of such companies was kept in view.
Lord CAMPBELL was satisfied that the interval of the re-
cess had been advantageous in the consideration of the several
plans which had been submitted to Government, and for the
regulation of private enterprise. He was satisfied also that
this direction of private enterprise would be advantageous in
the improvement of the railway system. A great evil had been
complained of, but he thought if they were only
to look to the Continent, the Government would
have a very effectual cure, salutary as we:l as effectual.
But his reason for thus presenting himself to their Lordships
upon this subject was, to ask the Noble Lord opposite whether
it was proposed to insert any clause for the purpose of indem-
nifying 'hose who should have become liable to the creditors of
a rail say company ? At present a person might take an action
against a member of the committee, and he had no means of
indemnifying himself.
Lord WH ARNCL I FFE was of opinion that it was at pre-
sent premature to be dise.issing the merits of the Bill not yet
before the House He had heard of the proposition of the Noble
Lord in reference to the mode in which parties should proc, ed
who were desirous of winding up a company ; but in cases
wl ere it might not be possible to procure the proposed number,
would the meeting then have the power of disposing of the ques-
tion? He thought that if the number required were larger, they
would be more likely to get at the real opinion of the sub-
stantial body of shareholders. What they had to dread was,
that attempts would be made to get up these meetings for
fallacious purrses. He had already stated that he con-
sidered three-fifths too small, and he could wish that
the number required had been somewhat larger. He would
not detain their Lordships longer, but he hoped that the
suggestion he had made would have the consideration of the
Noble Lord.
Lord KINNAIRD asked if the standing order would be
considered to-more ow ?
Lord DALHOUSIE—No; on Monday. It was exceed-
ingly satisfactory to him to find that their Lordships ap-
proved of the course pursued by the Government on
the subject of the standing order and of the BilL
It would be necessary,-however, that the Bill and the sessional
order should go hand in hand. He would endeavour to reply
to the various remarks made by the various speakers in their
proper order ; and first he would refer to what had fallen from
his Noble Friend beside him. His Noble Friend objected to
the amount axed as likely to be too small, and as likely also to
open the door to a system of jobbing and fictitious meetings,
which would be unsatisfactory, inasmuch as it would not really
represent the sentiments of the shareholders in the companies.
That objection had been carefully considered, and although the
amount fixed upon appeared to look small, yet the Noble Lord
would recollect that it was the minimum. But he would find,
on looking at it in another point of view, that it would be
amply sufficient. Supposirg, for instance, in such companies
as the London and Birmingham and Great Western,
which had each a capital of five or six millions
that a meeting were called under the operation of this order ;
it would require a very considerable degree of exertion to ob •
tain that amount. Other companies, it was true, had advan-
tages which these great companies had not ; but it would be
found that even in their case the sum in the Government pro-
position would be found to act very stringently. His Noble
Friend who sat further down had offered a different
objection. He felt that to ask the sanction of the three-fifths
of the subscribers was to ask too much for the purpose of pie-
venting the progress of the Bill. But when their Lordships
looked to the circumstances of the times—when they looked to
the consequences which would result from any considerable ad-
dition to the railway projects which had already passed the
House of Parliament—when they recollected that a vast num-
ber of these Bills were forced through Parliament contray to the
wishes of the proprietors, he thought they would find
that the objections urged by his Noble Friends were untenable.
Wherever there was a doubt, Parliament should throw the
doubt on the side of the negative. With respect to the ques-
tion of the Noble Earl, •he order was only sessional—of a pe-
culiar character it was true, but it was intended to apply to
an extraordinary crisis—it was to expire with the session.
It might be in the recollection of their Lordships that her Ma-
jesty's Government, at the commencement of the session, ex-
pressed an earnest desire that every' possible indulgence should
be shown to t hstohi snae: Br
Ireland.
ssnhdw.
Bill
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should
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think objecte
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feer noFs
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eut
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ion
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of
wish ythe order. He was anxious tzocesaye that mthere
should be no obstacle thrownreiandthe waytohf
that House,
Bills.nd Theythey
should receive their third
should not come under them
was accordingly gopemratioan of the order
until they went into the other House, and he
prepared onßilitshe7th, to move the
third reading of all which bad arrived st
the proper maturity. With respect to the other Bills, he
wished to mention that they would receive nn additional dello,.
Lord CAMPBELL wished that something would be said
In reference to the indemnities to be granted to shareholders.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE said that whatever liabilities
were now imposed on the parties, would remain. The lia-
bilities would remain exactly as they were at present.
deLmonritdyCwAili be
MPBELL—The liabilities will remain, but the
gone.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE said that creditors would have
the same security as existed at present.
The Bill was then read a first time.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE then moved that the sessional
order be taken into consideration on Monday.—Agreed to.
The second reading of the Boroughs (Scotland) Bill Was
postponed until Monday.
The House then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 23.
RAILWAY BUSINESS OF TILE SESSION.

- -
Mr. BERNAL regretted that these resolutions had he'"
brought forward so late in the session ; had a similar steP
been taken at an earlier period many of the evils which
they were now suffering would have been preventedi
But even now, why were they to allow the (=tinge.
expenses of committees and second readings to 17:
incurred ? Why were they to suffer parties to biy,
at the expense of bringing witnesses from all par
of the country, and providing for them "
taverns for a long period of time ? He dared to Oil,
that, at the present moment, from Hyde•park-corne
to Victoria-park, there could not be found
unoccupied bed at any respectable tavern.—(Hen
He contended ,that the course proposed by the
lion. Baronet was not fair to the country at large-
.
that Bight Hon. Gentleman felt that the public had suc
jetted themselves to great difficulties in the late In4rl;
of railway gambling, he might have proposed 50°3;4
other remedy hatter calculated to meat the—