The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-17 00:00:00

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regard to a measure which the country he verily be- be supplied to the West Indies save that now in practice,
lieved alm'ost unanimously approved. A day was and if any more effectual method could he suggested, ho
coming, and that very speedily, when free-trade prince- would answer for it that the Colonial-office and the Go-
pies were likely to be consummated. The sun and vernment at large would give such plan every attention,
al' avers of heaven were doing their work, and when provided the principle adopted was that of sending free
farmers next Christmas find their wheat selling at free- men, and by their own free will, to labour in the West
trade prices, they would not be very likely to thank Indies. Tice great difficulty in this respect, had been
those representatives who laboured to raise the price of from the want of funds to transport free labourers to
their sugar under pretence of justice to the colonists. their estates on the part of the planters. The Legisla-
Mr. H. BAILLIE thought the Hon. Member for ture had imposed no restrictions on the import of free
Manchester was the only Member of the House who labourers. But the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to
would have had the audacity to assume that he, in his exclude all slave-grown sugars from the home markets.
own person, represented the entire population of the Mr. BERRIES remarked that he said nothing of the
country. The Hon. Member represented only a class kind.
interest—the interest of the Manchester manufacturers; The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would
and he would only ask him how he could reconcile it to be sorry to misrepresent the Right lion. Gentleman, but
his conscience as a free-trader, that we should takeipot- his Hon. Friend at his right hand also so understood
ton for home manufactures free of duty, whilst we taxed what had been said by him. It appeared then that he
our own colonists 14s. per cwt. for their sugar?—(Hear, was not prepared to exclude slave-grown sugars from
hear.) But he would not waste words on the Member home consumption.
for Manchester. He wished to express very briefly his Mr. HERRIES explained that what he had stated
extreme disappointment at the measure of the Noble was, that the Legislature having discouraged by heav_Y,
Lord. It was a measure which would give no effectual differential duties the consumption of slave-grown sugr
relief of any sort. It was of very little conseq4ence to in the home market, had removed suddenly those restrte:
the colonists, whether they adopted this amended scale, tions by the Act of 1846 ; and that now the Noble Lover
or carried out the Bill of 1846 exactly as it stood, proposed to remove the remaining restrictions altogethe.,
Their ruin, under any system, was sure and inevitable; on its consumption, by gradually bringing the duties on
and it very little mattered whether it was consum- slave-grown and free labour sugars to a level. That via;

mated by the lingering process, or by the more speedy
one. The measure was supported by a part of the
House, because, if opposed, they would drive the present
Government from office. For his part, he would rather
see a Chartist Government in office than consent to do a
gross injustice. He regretted that the Government
should have been deterred, by any reference to majorities
or minorities in that House, from doing what it thought
just and right. It should have stood or fallen by the
measure of 1846.
Mr. COBDEN would say but a single word. His
Honourable Friend the Member for Manchester and
others were discountenanced by the other side of the
House, as being connected with the cotton trade, a cir-
cumstance which seemed to be considered as, somehow
or other, depriving their opinions of any weight
on this subject. Now he (Mr. Cobden) was not
connected with the cotton trade, but with the
woollen trade—a trade indigenous in the country,
and therefore, he supposed, not repudiated by the
Protectionists over the way. As a representative for
Yorkshire, he had no hesitation in saying that the course
of Honourable Gentlemen opposite on this question was
opposed to the opinion of the Yorkshire people. He
would remind them that it was the people of Yorkshire
who had supported Mr. Wilberforce, the great anti-
slavery champion, in all the opposition through which
he asserted the principles which had brought about the
depreciation in the price of our sugars. The other day
a deputation from Bradford waited upon the Government
to obtain at least some hope of remedial measures for
the existing distress ; but they went away as they came;
the Chancellor of the Exchequer telling them he could do
nothing for them. One of the deputation mentioned
that his factories gave employment to a thousand per-
sons, and that it was solely to give those persons bread
that he had kept his factories open at all, for that he
would gladly have closed them twelvemonths ago until
better times arrived. It would not be particularly satis-
factory to this gentleman and his fellow-manufacturers
to find that while all relief was withheld from them relief
was to be given to the West India planters.
Mr. HUME had heard the statement of the Noble
Lord with the deepest regret. Government would have
done far better to have let the matter alogether alone. It
was really deplorable to hear the Noble Lord, after such
repeated flourishes about his determination to adhere to
the Act of 1846, thus unblushingly propose the violation
of the whole principle and spirit of that measure.—
(Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that.his lion. Friend
the Member for the %Vest Riding of Yorkshire, as well
as his other free-trade colleagues, were taking a one-
sided view of this question.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon.
Friona suggested a parallel between the case of the
manufacturers of Yorkshire and the sugar-growers of the
West Indies, whereas in point of fact there was no such
analogy at all.—(Hear, hear.) In the first place the
West Indies were precisely damaged by the want of
that cheap and efficient labour which the manufacturers
of Yorkshire were absolutely overwhelmed with.—
(Hear, hear.) He had hoped to see the Government
endeavouring to remedy the evils which its former
legislation had inflicted upon the West Indies by
very different means from those proposed, which
amounted to a mere frittering away of the public money
without any sort of advantage to the West Indies.
(Hear, hear.) What the West Indies wanted was a
restoration of confidence, and the means of producing
their sugars as cheaply as the slave-holding states. Ile
had told Government how it would be when they were
proposing the hasty and most inconsiderate measure
which had so largely contributed to the distresses of the
West India interest, and be had moved to postpone the
donation of twenty millions until a committee had in-
quired how far it would be safe and judicious to pro-
ceed with the proposed plan; but he had been induced
not to press his amendment to a division, a circumstance
which he now regretted. Government talked of our
heavy taxation, and heavy, more than enough, God
knew it was ; but why did they not remove that taxa-
tion, the discontinuance of which was within their power?
Why call upon the country every year to pay a million
of money for the perfectly absurd and wholly inefficient
squadron of the coast of Africa?—(Hear, hear.) The
fact was, that this question must be taken up on Mon-
day, on a far wider and more comprehensive basis than
that suggested by the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) The
real question for earnest consideration would be whether
we were to keep the West India colonies or to lose
them.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. DRUMMOND quite agreed with the Hon.
Member for Montrose that the question was, whether
the House thought it worth while to retain tho West
Indies by simply doing them justice.
Mr. P. MILES said, that whereas the West India
planter was being ruined with a duty of 65., the Govern-
ment proposed to restore his prosperity by reducing the
protection to ss. 6d.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
complained of the conduct of the Colonial-office, in withu
holding the presentation of the papers on this subject,
so essential to its due consideration, until the day pre-
ceding that on which the discussion commenced.—
(Hear, hear.) Some time ago the Right Hon. the
Under Secretary of the Colonies had assured him that
no delay should take place in the presentation of these
papers, but although the most important of them had
been received so long back as April, the House were not
placed in possession of them until, in point of fact, that
very morning, so that they were expected to make
themselves masters of the contents of a huge folio,
two or three inches thick, in some half-dozen
hours.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon }Member having read
two extracts from dispatches of Lord Harris and Sir
Charles Grey, describing the extreme distress of the
West Indies, and expressive of the opinion that the con-
nexion with this country would be materially endan-
gered unless some practical sympathy with the colonists
were promptly displayed by the home Government, sug-
gested that the West India mail should be delayed until
the discussion on this subject was completed, so that the
colonists might have information as to their prospects at
the earliest possible moment.—(Elear.)
Mr. HENLEY expressed his conviction that, if the
country were polled, there would be an enormous ma-
jority who would prefer the cause of humanity, of Justice,
and of sound policy, to the saving a farthing a pound
upon their sugar.
Mr. HUDSON denied that the Hon. Member for
the West Riding of Yorkshire represented the opinions
even of his own constituents upon this subject.
Mr. E. DENISON said that the proposition of the
Noble Lord would not be accepted by the West In-
dians as in any degree meeting their requirements.
Mr. HERRIES thought the Noble Lord had placed
himself in a singularly unenviable position by his state-
ment. There was not a single Member, as yet, who had
given it his sanction, and this was no remarkable cir-
cumstance, considering what the measure was, or rather,
was not. After all the labours of the Committee up
stairs, after its production of eight thick volumes, con-
taining more information than had ever before been fur-
nished to the House upon any one subject, after the able
report it had presented, the Noble Lord had, as if
nothing had happened, proposed a measure which met
not one of the requirements which gave occasion to the
Committee.—(Hear, hear.) In fact, it was not a mea-
sure at all—it was a mere evasion of the subject.—
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Again, after our forty years'
struggle against slavery—after our enormous outlay of
money and of life, and of influence with the maritime
nations of the world, in vindication of the principle we
had proclaimed in hostility to the detestable slave trade
—after we had been told, and told most truly, that
all we had done had merely been to make the
slave trade at once more horrible and more prosperous,
the Noble Lord, in his speech upon this question, so
intimatelyl connected with slavery and the slave trade,
had not uttered a single word about either slavery or the
slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) As to the proposed measure,
no one in the colonies would accept it as a relief; it
would not even be taken as an instalment of relief.—
(Hear, hear.) It did not require for him to wait until
. Monday next to be able to pronounce that the proposi-
tion of the Government would disappoint not only the
West India planters, but also every person who was
looking to the Noble Lord's project for some relief. If
the Noble Lord relied on any support from that quarter,
therefore, he must content himself with the prospect of
having the smallest possible minority when his proposal
was put to the vote. Such, at least, he was bound to
say, was the impression the present conversation left upon
his mind. He would only add one word, and that was
with respect to the financial condition of the country,
and also as to the effects which the Noble Lord's pro-
posal, if carried out, would produce on the revenue.i As
he did not believe the contemplated reduction n the
duty would have any effect upon the consumption
far as to increase the revenue from that cause, h in so
e con-
fessed he was unable to foresee how the Right Hon.
Baronet would bo able to wind up the incomplete bud get
which he had presented to Parliament. There was a
deficiency in the receipts amounting, to three and a half
millions. Where were the resources of the Right Hon.
Baronet for bridging over, or rather for shutting
through, his financial difficulties ?—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) But, in addition to the acknowledged defici-
ency, there must also be taken into account the addi-
tional loss which would result to the revenue from the
reduction of the sugar duties, and there could be no
doubt that the loss so sustained would swell to no incom
siderable degree the existing deficit.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he had attentively listened to the speech of the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite, and had certainly expected
him to end by making a counter-proposition to the
House in lieu of that of his Noble Friend. Proposals
had been made on the part of some of the West Indians
to provide free labourers from the re-captured Africans
lodged in the barracoons, by transporting them to the
British colonies. But this the Government would not
consent to, as it would give direct encouragement to the
traffic in slaves carried on iu the interior of Africa. In
fact, he know of no plan by which free labourers could

what he objected to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thanked
the Right Hon. Gentleman. Then what he meant to
argue was, that the high rate of duties on slaee-grovill
sugars ought to be maintained, but not entirely to ex.;
elude those sugars. The Government, however, felt 1
necessary to abide by the policy already marked out b/d
previous majorities of that House, which had affirMe
the principle of admitting all sugars into fair and free
competition. The point, then, which the Right 11.‘1„rj.
Gentleman contended for was, the maintenance of P',,
tection for the British planters during an adequate ter'",:
to enable them to compete by means of free labour with
slave-labour sugars. And the argument advanced., by
the Protectionists was that the only chance of Patlnei
down slavery was to give free labour every Pe.ss- of
advantage over slave labour. The recommendation .0
the Committee nominated by the Noble Lord °I,
Member for Lynn was not to exclude sisslie%
grown sugar, but to grant protection fur fiee
years, in order to give the planters time to aster
their arrangements. The Hon. Member for Leo
(Mr. Barkly) defined that protection to be 10s. duty en,
British plantation sugar for three years. Therefore,enie
less the Legislature was prepared to go back, the roof
questions to be considered were, not the exclusicinhs g
slave-grown sugar, but for what time and to /-r
amount was protection to be extended to free-lab:le
sugars; and on Monday he should be prepared to Preol
that the Government proposal was preferable to 000
better than that suggested by the opposite par* sal
never had been sanguine that the Government prof Ito.
would be well received by Hon. Gentlemen oPP,e9 at
With respect to the financial results to which theist
Hon. Gentleman had referred, all he could say wasko
he did not anticipate any great loss to the revenue in-eat.
the alterations in the duty proposed by the Govereieh
But he could not say as much for the proposal w had
from the opposite side of the House. If leees la
to choose between them he should have no hesitatia"bie,
saying that the Government proposal was I
Preferablell
for even on the score of revenue the sacrifice %is-
might be occasioned would never exceed in Pas esti
tion the sum of 40,000/ ~,eo
Mr. C. P. VILLIERS remarked that anY2,llfletrose
had heard the speech of the Hon. Member for -101."„ oa
on the present occasion would have supposed Thar
never done otherwise than blame the Act which ecol to
cipated the slaves, and that he had also been oPP..,e' hell
free trade. He only cited this in order to shalioege
very much opinions wavered on all sides of the, ~,pl'
on the question before them. lle had no doubt' toil
ever that the Hon. Member would be able sistiarae thee
to explain his views on Monday, and to snak, frog
consistent with his general opinions.--(" Hear' ed to
Mr. Hume.) The great point to consider 01,00
him to be the want of the British West Inale Plt the
of free labourers. It was generally admitted tbet_oto
negroes now in the islands would work there wed to
be plenty of sugar produced. Therefore, it see lose 0
him that the great thing to be done was to Prexoclies'
moral effect upon the negroes now in the West Oda
the tendency of which would be to show thelb-ot the
were not to have it all their own way, but t. fie'
Government would lend assistance in bringingw 10101
labour from other quarters if the negroes rates 0
been emancipated would not work at proper
wages. ,I, IC°
Lord GEORGE BENTINCE said that 1 ostric
Indian mail, which went out to-morrow, Nvoeise 'et
with it tidings of despair and dismay to t"wls se
Indians, as well as the deepest regret in their uslog tb,
the progress which the slave trade had made elil,r pro:
last two years. He was quite sure the Nohleii, tbs
proposal would be of no avail in averting the run PI
prevailed in the West Indies. To say that 1,1131 su'OCs
colonies were in their present ruined state, Oos Olio
down by the measure of 1846, a protection talc'h "
ifo° 0,
of the Government would be any relief to theal'o ocso
mockery. The reason why he rose on the regret atei'to
sion was to give the British planters some het! was,
their despair.—(A laugh.) And if the ez'ilooloet;
carry out the Government proposal, to let thera,s pro
listen to the coldness with which the Noble 113, hoftal
positions had been received. To let theme:" pate Abe
Honourable Member for the University °h.
tetit;,•rc
speech had been received, and to teach tberloo ei;ijs
Noble Lord's dictum was not received aS, seat„,ste
by the House:—(A laugh.) He augure' 'OlO 6•
verdict on Monday would be that the BritispOon• Bed
should not be allowed to perish. The Right ititie3tii-(1'
ronet (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) bThowered
that under the Act of 1844 slave-grown sug,s'" Thst; si
mated from the United States and Venezeos* %ceeu„se
true, but so small was the quantity as not ta Actin lts
tons in all the quantity imported under that tided ie e 4
year. The Hon. Member for Bristol had ali oplaiso,
dispatch of Sir Charles Grey, and had justly c°tllst A ti•
of the length of time that had elapsed befogs (I,otese
'
patch was laid on the table of the House- ..I'l,ober. A oft
Bentinck) would go further than the 1:1°a• A' 'li l<,
would ° 0 f
would affirm that Sir C. Grey's dispatch Was reel
;, held 4e5)
the 27th of March, and that not only wa,a '" B. 00",iie
but when the lion. Member for Kinsale (mitr• juclillythe
was examined before the• Committee 00 ‘l` est:,„g ofasi
tress, he positively declared that he knew not ne,„b Po
state of the case which was contained in a (11.117;) 00
had been nine days in his possession.—(A isoi ter isal
was to be sure nothing more than a renes
~,,s
00
Under-Colonial Secretary of the same trick "wee to
been played off by his chief in another plaol3, gob,
dispatch was withholdl for four hours after toe„bre.:o
had concluded.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member 'iv P'm
but he would not do so when the evidence givetta to ",1
before the West India Committee was quopeue fi?„
House. The Noble Lord then referred to 'thf Soule,'
India Committee blue book, and read a part 0 o,
Grey's despatch, wherein the Governor of Jaerteicloo
that unless the Gazette price of Muscovados Oho tP,
permanently maintained at 305., the result wouN! oaks,
the cultivation of sugar must bo abandoned in ''a j rA:
and " for that reason," continued Sir C. Greg: 301;
cemmend that the duties on Muscovados be leYlB t '
Qi ' Pe 'IS
per lb. on British free-labour sugars, and at -- ' eore/°
on foreign sugars, liable to alterations when 01%04
colonies remitted their slaves." That was, in attotopt,bl s
the remedy which ho had proposed for the of e
of the House. But what was the evidelle-for '-ef
Hon. Member the Under-Secretary of Stlte 50 De,
Colonies before the Committee, en the bleb ti
April, he having had the dispatch If get;fr,
had just quoted since the 27th ef &VI to
The Honourable Member, on being questionet.,rre°,o
Goulburn as to the accounts from Jamaica, v;st isreff
Committee to the general accounts from the I nwore°toe
known by the name of the Blue Book, Oa,' chstasoel
stated that the accounts were of a general
vs
sorieoler
and when Mr. Goulburn, dissatisfied with th,9.0„ oh°oo4
indefinite reply of the Hon. Member, asked ",100 /100',
the Governor of Jamaica wrote no diseanon, 0,0,
what were to bo seen in the Blue Book, th .1; ottiird
ber distinctly said—" Yes he does, but I am eO,, re°
any dispatch of importance which has befr
from him and withheld from the Omni:ll4We%
doe. , I
Mr. HAWES—It was not withheld at that
h „Aiello
Lord G. BENTINCK—Why, the di51?.91,0 °Revel,
have quoted was received at the Colonial '7Ol t to
27th of March; the Hon. Member's evide.l.l74 49 ~
on the sth of April, and the document
.Irr.) ~,TOl9
produced or printed until June.—(llear,?_!.•ftle ' ,
Mr. B. HAWES—It was produced veue" 0
feo fof
Lord moved for it. iS
as mber "OP et 4
Lord G. BENTINCK—The Hon • -use bof I 0
with me.—(A laugh.) I moved, on the Bth 10 rsis.,!,
the production of all papers received sine!' !„, el, di,
printed. But the Hon. Under-Secrem.hrfo /eh (IPO
stated before the Committee at the time
_,,'' eire41)09.0,,
patch was in his possession, that he 1104!....5ica, 1.004,,
patches of importance at all from sPZ.d_sstlyteC7ll
hear.) The Noble Lord then proeeeu ~„000 te..ntt ~
was clear why the dispatch was held back `,:„ld ;es(
mittee. The Hon. Under-Secretary vruiTot of
c; 100(1
have excused himself by saying it was A naOte 00$110
ance; but was the dispel eh which he had .7. me, 4011,,e
importance?—(Hear.) The sugar inter 401 '„( P'„(
fair play in this matter, nor was it intends
report "oit '6,
have fair play. lie had thought that the bee; Or 0
Committee would have received more sae, of tart,
this he was certain, that had the disPatetu-sse:p;
Grey been received in time, that reporberre.,.ii3vcolePir
been agreed to by the majority of the Met:away led be Otto
hear.) The question of differential dutl • ect 140?
to which the Committee had particularlf tirlttiee c 1 il3
attention, and if its advocates had been fbl„,„elf "re,
evidence of the Governor of Jamaica, isioritierePoo
trader, there could be no doubt but their la i't, tPiteUt,
have been considerably greater. He thouf e sefoKer
that he had a right to make a grave cha„..got a 0,114,
colonial officer for keeping back so intecr.l,7,,,, 0.0 col
—(Hear, hear.) He would not at that It elpoP,4
into the discussion, seeing that no rloblo dee:oo,
templated, but would merely advise the _ , ia
_t
..0,
ar is-
era_utiestakets:telfgoelltiff
the head of the Government to
Lheoredareebto%ld.pevrolok e
with great colonies. The Noble , , matt pati or.
ot ern 1
s.himself6d
. p per
rwi
cwt.th
when the interes ."4 i°
very existence of great colonies were's!. ;„ the, e 0 3
sugar, i n
hear.) Those colonies had been loyal 11004.
times, but their patience bad its limits; the 1005• Ate
take leave to say to the Noble L?rd, pot sod P'
Burke, that" magnanimity in politics e was_sire vas
v 0
truest wisdom," and that " a great 101'
bed is Ptii
minds go in together. —(Cheers.) delay tiopi 00
Mr. HAWES denied that any undue in quielso bilevori
place in the delivery of the dispatch.
until be j bf" 00 ° 0
must defer lengthened explanation , mob, sti
„0
•• _ This ss quo „litss
opportunity of making inquiries.
understood 10.,,',,lver°100P's
he would say, that he had a„ Ise Ce Or
the Right Hon. Member . ~ coed ecei be
for Cambrule . the ciao e 0
referring to what was technically been r Ye. 0'
d not , ba _ „
Blue Book, which blue book had
_sid aoth _i en
to the present hour, and therefore
001i.zspaso v
, „ given to the Committee. As to th tu