The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-22 00:00:00

GROUP XIII,

Thin Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, Sir Wm. Clay in the
chair; there were also present, Earl <Termyn, Mr. P. Ainsworth, and
Mr. Cartels.

NORTH BRITISH (CARLISLE EXTENSION).
Ev'dence on behalf of this line was resumed.
Sir Jatnes Graham, .11. P., examined by Mr. ArsTin, said hiarest-
dence was at Netherby. The line before the Committee went for a
Considerable way through his property, between Canoble and Car-
lisle. He had paid some attention to the scheme before the Commit-
tee. and he thought that the construction of the line v-ould confer
great, benefit on that district of country. It passed Langton in its
route.- It would be of great advantage to Langton. and the sur-
rounlia; neighbourhood. Langton had a population of about 2,000
intia'Atants. The prluclpal manufacture there was hand loom
weaving. The weavers were supplied from Carlisle. He and his
predez.essors had hitherto opposed the establishment of manufactures
by power,' but having seen the destitution among the hand-
loom weavers, he now thought it desirable to establish manu-
facturing power. The po,it,on of the Esk was not such as to'
allow of the extensive application of water power; he therefore
thought that steam power was more desirable. In the establishment
of that ouwet-Le could ()Ter great facilities; and he believed that
with railway* accommodation. coals could be laid down at Langtoa
cheaper limn any port in the north of England. He had every reason
to believe that the present line would not only be a great benefit to
Langton and the neighbourhood, but also :o the city of Carlisle. He
did not think the Caledonian and Langholtn I ranch would accommo-
date the district near so well ; it would interfere injuriously
with his property, and would cause the Canoble coal
to be taken in a more circuitous way to Cal:isle. lle had large
plantations as well as stone quarries, and the Caledonian branch
would also give very imperfect accommodation for the conveyance of
the wood and stone to Carlisle. The North British Hoe, on the ether
hand, went in the most direct manner to Carlisle, along the route of
the turnpike road, and afforded the fullest accommodation to the
district through which passed. The district was an important
agricultural one both ;or the raising of produce and the feeding of
sheep, and it was annually improving. If accommodation by rail-
way was to he given, it ought to be on the left bank of the Esk. Ho
also approved of the extension of the line to Itawick, as he thought
this the natural line to Edinburgh. It would be the shortest as well
as the ban:. .

Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant WaANGOAM—He had given his
attention 'o the whole scheme of railway accommodation for the
south of Scotland. He had last year assented to the Caledonian. It
went thrtat.h I,:s property. He had heard that a line had been
sanctioned for a line to Glasgow by Dumfries. That would make,
with the present scheme, three lines to the centre of Scotland. He
had alwal * ilyught, however, that the traffic would only support
two lines. Still he considered the Caledonian should be satisfied
with the Glas;ow traffic, and that the Edinburgh main line
shoal I go through Ilawick. The line by Hawick to Edinburgh was
the most direct, and he .relieved the shortest. He supported that
schema because it would open up the valliei of the Esk and Tweed,
and accommodate the important and rising towns of Galashiels,
Hawick, and Selkirk. On public grounds, therefore, he thought the
present line desirable. The line to Edinburgh by the Caledonian
beim.; formed, and the present line also laid down, it would
no doubt be a calamity to the Caledonian; and, there-
fore, to that cottext an injury to the public. If the
Nithsdale line took away a port ion of the Glasgow traffic, it
would be still more so. He had once thought that railway competi-
tion wit:: n great evil, but he had seen reason to modify his views, and
to conclude that increased accommodation by railways developed
traffic and induced the public to travel to a greater extent ; so that
Use evil apprehended was not such as he once thought it to be. He
had not read the pinion of the Board of Trade on the subject of com-
peting iines ; all he could say was, that there was traffic enough to sup-
port one line to Edinbugh and another to Glasgow, but with regard to
a third competing line by Nithsdale, he had net considered the
question. He did not know the capital that would be required for all
these I:nes. He only thought, generally, that one line to Glasgow,
and one to Edinburgh, world pay; but whether two to Edinburgh,
and two to G'asgow, competing with each other, would pay, was a
subject he had nut considered. Tha present line went about
six miles through his property. The Caledonian branch did
not approach so near to Langton as the Carlisle and Hawick, and
there was the river between them. lie had been told that the Cale-
donian brans); Slam Langholm to Carlisle was 3% miles longer than
the North British Extension. He had always thought the Caledonian
line from larlisle to Glasgow very desirable, and would prove of
great public benefit. He had heard within the last month that the
Hawirit line. in *is entrance into Carlisle, crossed a thoroUghiare in
an objectionable manner.

Mr: I.a;rig, factor of several 'estates in Roxbureishire, deposed
as to tha agricultural traffic of Roxburghsh're. A large amount of
the moll', e went westward Into Dumfriesshire. It was generally
bought up by dealers, and a good deal of it went to the English
market. I is re urn of the grain, meal, and flour, that went west-
ward thrulixh anwiek, was 4,714 tons.

Cross, exaatitted—Of the 4,714 torts, a considerable porton went
Into Ledclo.';'alc. He could not say what towns in Dumfriesshire
were stvt!ied with this produce, nor could he say who the parties
were !fiat fought it. The Ledderdale district, he believed, was south
west .1 lin Nick. He could not say that the district in question was
to the south 915 e 01 Langholm.
To the CVAIIIIAN—IIe ascertained the quantity of grain he men •
Voile by communicating with the millers who attended the Hawick
Market and examining their returns as far as he could obtain them.
Mr. Scott, cattle dealer of Hawick, examined by Mr. Sergeant
Brwars —lie occupied a sheep farm of 1,000 acres in Roxburgh.
shire, alio grazing farms in Ross-shire. He was also tenant of
Arthur's st-7.1t, near Edinburgh. It was his practice to breed his sheep
on his northern tanns and then bring them tp the south for the purpose
of feeding and afterwards they were all sent to Ann an, from whence they
were shipped to Liverpool. If sent by railway to Liverpool, they
svoslti arrive much sooner, and in much better condition. He sent
about 4,000 sheep and 400 cattle to Liverpool annually. There were
other persons In Roxburghshire and Berwickshire engaged in a
similar occupation with his own. There were 450,000 to 500,000 lean
sheep annually sold at the fairs in Roxburghshire, and he estimated
that fully three-fourths of that number were sent to England. There
were also 120,000 to 130,000 fat sheep annually sent to Newcastle.
The cost of sheep from Kelso to Annan was Is. a head, and from
Annan to Liverpool 25., being 3s. in all. Cattle cost to Annan Bs.,
an dfrom thence to Liverpool 10s., being 18s. in all. He thought
about 15,000 fat sheep would go by this line through Carlisle, and
about 4,000 tat cattle. He could not say what would be the amount
of lean cattle that Would go, but he considered a great amount
would go.
Cross examined by Mr. IttexaßDs—He was the largest dealer in
the district. Liverpool and Newcastle were his principal markets,
but the proportions he to these places varied. The largest con-
sto umption was at Newctlit great t consumptiongratproportion
f
Leeds and the other to:;nsThoferYeowrkThiare.g
the stock that went to Liverpool consumed at Manchester. If
things remained as they wereands:vcrtrect line was formed from N
castle to Manchester, no doubt a considerable amount
of the ew-
would go that way. It would, however, be a round about comma
u.
nleation. A very considerable portion of the lean stock of Rox-
boirghsh;re went to Skipton and the north of Yorkshire, and the
Newcastle route as far as he knew would be an accommodation to
that oraltic. What would go by this line, was In a great measure a
ma tt e i of guess.
Mr. Nelson, butcher, of Glasgow, deposed that the East and Mid-
Lothians were the best feeding districts in the south of Scotland.
This district lay to the east of Edinburgh, between Dalkeith and
Haddington, His evidence was generally that, from his experience
of carrying cattle, the fat and lean stock from the Lothians would
go by the proposed railway. He thought alarge traffic in fat cattle
Prom the Lothians would take place along this line to supply the
Xanenester, Liverpool, and Birmingham markets. There would
also, he was persuaded, be a large trade in slaughtered meat.
Cross .examined —Probably a considerable amount of the cattle
Irom Dalkeith and Tranent would go to Edinburgh and pass to the
Mouth by the Caledonian Railway. There was little difference in the
two routes, and therefore the Caledonian line would give accomtno-
delion to ll,e cattle of that neighbourhood without the construction
of the present line. From Tranent cattle going along the
:Hawick line might save about five miles. With reference to the
Slaughtered cattse, he gave evidence last year that the Caledonian
'would be a convenient route for that meat going south. There were
a 0-cat timber of villages around Edinburgh engaged In slaughter-
ing, and by going into Edinburgh, the Caledonian would give them
gad southern ace tinmodation, The Fifeshire cattle would also be
Accommodated by the Caledonian line. The traffic to the east of
England would be accommodated by the North British Railway. lie
bad not coluddezed whether there would be traffic for the two rail-
-ways, though last year lie had deposed that there was sot roma for .
The Caledonian and the Dumfries schemes, and he p -eferred the

iormer.
Mr. ifortor, m'n'ng engineer, said he had examine.] the route of
the line in reeerti to minerals, and he had visited the Canobie coal-
Iflod t. was 9 fteiltful coal •field, three miles by two, containing 55
*et of w,rkable of al in 13 seams. It had been but slightly worked.
The present seem, ~voree t coald be made available fora supply of
100,000 tone for tn rare. Accenting to boring, the whole of the
proved seams would wive a supply for 200 years. At present the
euppty was 25,300 tons a year, at hs. 4d. at the pit's mouth. Of this
quantity Haef-icii. took about 7,003 tens a year. If the railway were
formed it cenld be tail doe n in Hawick at Os. Id. a ton. There was
also an extensive limestone bed worked near to Canobie. He bad
made a table evhieft would be put in, of what would be the price of
coal at venous points along the line assuming the carriage to be I%d.
per ton per mile, coals from Slid-Lothian would cost at Hawick '
12s. 5:1.
Cross-examined—Last year he corroborated the evidence cf Mr.
Wright, which took credit for Hawick being supplied with coal from
Mid-Lothian. That was, he believed, a considerable item in the
estimates of the line froin Edinburgh to Hawick. The coal sold at
the pit's mouth at Canobie was Just as it came out cf the mine,
Imsorted. With a Hue (tom Canobie to Dumfries, awl another to
Nawick, no doubt the puke of the coal would rise. The present
price at Canobie would not, therefore, present what it would be
under the other et rcums' enees referred to. He could not say what
the Berwick coal could be supplied in Hawick for. The entire con-
gumption of coal last year was 7,000 tons. When he talked of ;,000
tons going to Hawiek, from Canobie, he merely guessed the amount '
- to be such for the pi emelt year. (The witness was here subjected t•
sclo,e scrutiny on the table he had furnished, with the object of
Showing that the estimate of the coal traffic was greatly exaggerated).
Mc. Gibson, manager of the Canobie colliery, generally COZTO.
b°rateel the wridenee of the previous witness with regard to the ,
minerri traffic. Coals were taken to Ilawiek ha carts, and prcrvi-
*MA bwatitht buck for Couoble. Quo lquctrog Gana were $Uw -

employed. The coal sold at the pit's mouth was unsorted and nn-
riddled. just as it came to the pit's mouth. Coal had at one time
been shipped at Carlisle.

Cross.examined—They never had had any shipments of Canobie
coal at Annan; lnit if that part was better adapted for shipping than
Carlisle it would be desirable for that purpose. In making up
the traffic table he had taken all places on each side of
the railway, that was eeven miles beyond Cattobie. Lanett()lm was
a market town about seve.t milesfrom Cartobie, yet he had estimated
for all the coal to be consumed there. He had made no deduction
for the farmers coming to market with their carts and bringing coals.
He had not calculated how many of the places in the table would be
nearer by the turnpike road than by railway, or that were likely still
to cart their coals.
Mr. Wright, manager of the Dalkeith collieries, wits examined in
corroboration of the foregoing witness He had assisted Mr. Morton
and Mr. Gibson in making up the tables submitted.
Cross-examined—He gave evidence last year to the effect that
Hawick would be well supplied from the Mid Lothian coal-field, which
was a most extensive one. The country around Langholm was a
thinly populated country. He had estimated for Langholm and six
or seven miles round. He had also taken a circuit round Hawick. The
country along the line wag very thin till within three miles of
Hawick.
Mr. Kenwick, a manufacturer and wool spinner at Langholm,was
generally examined, with the object of showing that the line in
question would be of great importance to his business in opening up
a connexion with the north and south. It would also be of consider-
able benefit to the town and neighbourhood.
Cross-examined—He was the only manufacturer of this particular
kind in Langholm, and he sent the most of his goods through Hawick
to Glasgow. The steamers from Liverpool came to Annan, because
they conld not come up the canal to Carlisle.
The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow At twelve O'clock.