The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 10, 1846

The Earl of SHREWSBURY opposed the amend-
ment, which would, in his opinion, render the whole
measure nugatory. He wished to see a diplomatic rela-
tion established between this country and Rome upon
principles of perfect reciprocity. A Protestant might
be appointed from this country, and why should there be
any restriction as to the class or description of the per-
son to be appointed as the representative of Rome ? In
fact there were no persons in Rome except ecclesiastics
who were adapted to the discharge of diplomatic duties
or had received such an education as would suit them for
such an office. The cases of Russia and this country
were not parallel cases. But even so, if the Emperor
refused to receive a nuncio, the Pope had equally re-
fused to send a minister either to Russia or Prussia.
He would oppose this amendment, because he thought
that if the clause proposed was adopted it would not
only take away the grace of the measure, but would
render it altogether useless.
Lord STANLEY said that he spoke for himself and
for the people of this country when he expressed his
opinion that this amendment was of the greatest im-
portance, and he considered it of such importance that
he should be mainly influenced in his ultimate course
by its adoption or rejection by this House. The Noble
Earl who had just sat down said that it would not only
take away the grace of the measure, but render it en-
tirely useless. So far as there was any ground of
offence on the part of the Popish Court, the Prussian
Government were equally open to the charge. In the
year 1845, the Russian Government was asked to
receive a nuncio from Rome, and what was the an-
swer? That Russia was ready to stand on the same
footing of entire reciprocity, The answer was, " Send
us a lay envoy, and we will send one to Rome." The
Argument of the Noble Earl would apply, if the
British Government proposed to aek Rome to dispatch
a Protestant envoy to this country, for then there
would be no reciprocity. It was said that the
question ought to be left to the discretion of the
Crown, which discretion would change from day to day;
but he wished to impress upon their Lordships that HOW
was the time, when such a Bill was proposed to them,
for their Lordships to interfere and lay down the condi-
tions on which they were to enter into diplomatic rela-
tion with the Court of Reme. The case of Prussia was
compared with that of this country; but their Lordships
should recollect that the Sovereign of this country held
the Crown under settlement, and under a solemn com-
pact to support the Protestant religion, and that there
was a law in this country which was stronger than the
power of the Crown, to the effect that no person in the
character of a Roman Catholic Ambassador from Rome
should reside in this country. He opposed the rejection
of the amendment as injurious to the peace and welfare
of the Protestant community of this country, believing
that it would be a step towards transferring the Vatican
from Rome to London, and introducing new elements of
confusion and difficulty in the administration of affairs
in this country.
Lord CL ANRICARDE complained of the amendment,
because it fettered the Crown without fettering any other
party.
The Duke of RICHMOND said that the Crown was
already very much fettered as regarded the Roman Ca-
tholics, and if this fetter were taken off it would be in
future taken as a precedent for removing'the others; and
thereby they would be going one step further in giving
the Roman Catholics a chance of beating down the
Protestant religion in this country.
The Earl of lIARROWBY said a few words in sup-
port of the amendment.

George 111. prevented them from investing their
funds, amounting to 600,0001. a year, which relieved
upwards of 1,000,000 males :and females, under the
Friendly Societies Act, and praying for a remedy.
LONDON WORXIIOUSES.

Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition, complaining
of the way in which the casual poor were treated in
the London workhouses.
JEWISH DISABILITIES.

Mr. G. BERKELEY presented a petition from
West Gloucestershire in favour of the removal of the
Jewish disabilities.
POPISH BULLS.
_ _

Mr. lIENLEY presented a petition from Oxford
against the admission of Popish bulls into this country.

JEWISH DISABILITIES.

Mr. PLUAIPTRE presented a petition against the
admission of persons professing the Jewish religion
into the Legislature.
Mr. FRENCH presented a petition in favour of
their admission.
DUTIES ON TEA.

Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the Presi-
dent of the Chamber of Commerce and 470 mercan-
tile firms in Manchester, praying kr a large reduction
of the duty on tea.
NATIONAL DEFENCES.

The HON. MEMBER also presented a petition against
any increase in the naval and military establishments
of the country.
Mr. HUDSON presented four petitions from Sun-
derland against any alteration in the navigation laws,
and a petition in favour of the Jewish Dis-
abilities Bill.

Mr. HUME presented a petition from New South
Wales complaining of the operation of the navigation
laws, and the sconstitution of the Admiralty Courts.
On au early day he should move that the petition be
printed with the view of founding a motion upon it.
The Hon. Member also presented a petition from
Glasgow praying for relief to the West India
Colonies.

Lord LINCOLN presented a petition in favour of
the Health of Towns Bill.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

On the motion of Mr. TUFNELL, it was ordered
that the House at its rising should adjourn to Mon-
day next.

RIVER STEAWBOATS.

Mr. BRIGHT wished to know what powers her
Majesty's Government had to control the steam-
boats of the river.

Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that it would pro-
bably be necessary for him to apply to Parliament
for some powers on the subject.

SCOTCH ENTAILS.

In answer to a question from an Hon. Member,
The LORD ADVOCATE said that he hoped to
be able to bring forward a Bill on the subject of
Scotch entails in a few days.

Lord CAMPBELL said that the real question was,
whether they were to prevent the Crown from using its
usual prerogative and to encroach on the law of nations,
which he thought they would do by carrying the amend-
ment, which, on that ;round, lie opposed.
The Duke of WELLINGTON proposed the intro-
duction of the words "'diplomatic relations," which
would remove the necessity for carrying the amend-
ment.

After a few words from the Earl of SIIREWSEURY and
Earl FITZWILLIAM, who, though he felt considerable
objection to sce an ecclesiastical official from the Church
of Rome in this country, yet opposed the amendment,
because he thought it would limit to too great a degree
the power of the Crown,
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he, on the
part of the Government, adopted the suggestion of the
Noble Duke. Ile had already stated that he was pre-
pared to adopt the suggestion of the Noble Duke, and
he would have done so formally the night before, only
he wishtd to know what was the meaning, the precise
legal meaning. of the words " diplomatic relations."

The Earl of ELLENBOROUO II Wished, befcre their
Lordships proceeded to a division, to ask the Noble
Marquis (Lansdowne) how the proposed alteration of the
terms of the Bill, by introducing the words " diplomatie
relations," was to have the effect of the clause proposed
as an amendment by his Noble Friend (Lord Eglinton).
That clause was to have the effect of preventing her Ma-
jesty from receiving
_in this country any ecclesiastic as
ambassador from Rome. It was right that the Sove-
reign of these realms, who for 200 years could not ap-
point an ambassador at Rome, should now be relieved
from any difficulty of diplomatic relations between this
country and Rome where deemed expedient ; but then
they were not prepared to go so far as to forget the
whole interest and spirit of the Protestant legislation of
this country ; they would, under no circumstances, re-
lieve the prerogative of the Crown, so as to enable any
Minister to injure the Protestant Established Church.
If an ecclesiastic was sent from Rome to this country,
it would not only be injurious to the interests of Pro-
testantism, but a direct offence to every Protestant in the
country.

The-Marquis of LANSDOWNE assured the Noble
Earl that he had never said, or meant to say, that the
introduction of the terms suggested by the Noble Duke
would have the effect of the clause proposed by the
Noble Earl (Eglinton). What he stated was, that he
was prepared to adopt the suggestion of the Noble
Duke, and that he would have previously stated his de-
termination to do so, but he
_wished first to ascertain
the legal meaning of the terms proposed to be intro-
duced into the Bill.—(" Hear, hear," and " Divide.")
Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared—
Contents
Non- contents
Majority for the amendment —3
Lord REDESDALE proposed another amendment,
which was in the following terms: " That it shall not be
lawful for her Majesty to receive any ambassador, en-
voy extraordinary, minister plenipotentiary, or other
diplomatic agent, until the Court of Rome shall have
declared that it doth not claim, but distinctly disavows,
any temporal or civil jurisdiction, power, superiority, or
pre-eminence, directly or indirectly, within these realms,
or any part thereof."
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE opposed the amend-
ment.

The Earl of SHREWSBURY said it would be much
wiser to leave the Bill as it was, and rely upon the good
sense and good feeling of the people of this country.
Whenever there was auy intrigue or encroachment by
foreign powers, the people of England would be, as
they ever had been, able and willing to resist them suc-
cessfully.
The Bishop of SALISBURY said, as he had agreed
to the principle of the Bill, their Lordships should not
defeat it by a proposition such as that made. He should
therefore resist the amendment.

After a few words from Lord STANLEY, who re-
commended the withdrawal of the amendment,
Lord REDESDALE accordingly withdrew it.
The Duke of RICHMOND proposed a clause pro-
viding that no ambassador from the Court of Rome
should be permitted to do anything which a subject of
this country could not do.
Lord CAMPBELL said that from the constitution of
the Bill such a clause would be quite unnecessary.
The Duke of RICHMOND tnen withdrew his clause.
Their Lordships then resumed, and the report was
ordered to be received on Monday next.
Their Lordships then adjourned, at twenty minutes
past Ten o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS', Feb. 18.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
The Dundee and Perth Railway Bill was read a
first time.

the individual consumer. I will now proceed to refer
to a paper which is in the hands of the House—the
balance-sheet of this year, presented on the 3d of
February. From that balance-sheet it will appear that
there is an excess of expenditure over income of
2,956,6831. But in reference to this apparent excess of
expenditure, I would impress upon the Committee that
among the sums inserted on the side of expenditure,
there is a considerable portion of the grant made to
relieve Irish distress, amounting to 1,525,000/. ; and I
would further explain that among the receipts here is
the sum of 440,0001. under the head of China money,
which amount, instead of laving been received here,
was stopped, on its way to England, at the Cape of
Good Hope, and placed in the military chest for the pur-
poses of the Kafir war. Deducting these two sums from
the apparent excess of expenditure, the real excess of
expenditure over income would be only 981,683/. I will
now advert to the estimates under the different sources
of revenue, which were set forth by my Right Honour-
able Friend in his budget last year, and the same
which, as well as we can now calculate, approxi-
mately, will be received under those heads,
taking the whole year up to the sth April next. The
revenue estimated by my Right Hon. Friend as to be
derived from the Customs was 20,000,0001.; the sum we
now estimate to be received from these duties is
19,774,6001. The estimate in relation to the .Excise
duties was 13,700,0001; the estimate) we have now
formed is 13,340,0001. ; the estimate in relation to the
stamps was 7,500,0001.; cur present estimate is
7,150,000/4 the estimate of taxes was 4,270,009/.; we
now calculate that the taxes will produce 4,340,000/.;
the income-tax, it was thought, would yield 5,300,0001,
we now expect from it 5,450,000/4 the Post-office
receipts we set down at 845,0)0/, the present estimate is
923,0001.; the Crown lands we estimated would produce
120,0001., we now anticipate from this source 60,00C1.;
under the head of miscellaneous the estimate was
3,300,0001, our present calculation is 3,250,0001.
The whole estimate from these various sources
made by my Right Honourable Friend was
52,065,000/. the estimate now formed being only
51,362,065/. This, no doubt, is a considerable
apparent falling off in the revenue ; but, at the same
time, adverting to those circumstances which I have men-
tioned, to the dreadful scarcity in Ireland, to the com-
mercial panic, to the very sudden and extreme changes
which have taken place in the course of the year, I must
confess that the falling off in the revenue appears to me
to be less than might have been expected under the pre-
sent circumstances —(Hear.) I will now take some of
the items in which there has been a falling off, and some
of those in which there has been an increase, my state-
ments
in reference to which apply, of course, only to
the sth of January last past, while the more general es-
timates which I have stated refer to the year ending the
sth of April next. Of articles from which an increased
revenue has been derived there are molasses, on which
there has been an increase of 31,431/. ; sugar, on which
there has been an increase of 540,0001. ; rum,
on which there has been an increase of
64,000 Z ; butter and cheese, on which there has
been an increase of 24,000/.; and tobacco, on which there
has been an increase of 111,620/. On the other hand,
there has been, as of course was to have been expected,
a decrease in the duty on corn of 705,890/. ; on timber,
of 143,751/. ; and on wines, of 132,3614 With respect
to the Excise duties, there has been the large decrease
on duties on spirits of 605,000/., and OR malt of 664,000/.
—or together, 1,359,000/ But the amount of expendi-
ture actually voted, together with the sums which
I have shown were not included in the budget, was
52,315,709/., whilst the estimated receipts were
51,362,0601., leaving a deficiency of 953,6491. I shall
now proceed to state what I calculate will be the pro-
duce of the different articles which constitute the re-
venue, during the year commencing in April, 1848, and
ending in April, 1849 ; and I take these different
items from the usua sources, and calculate
their amount in the manner always adopted on
these occasions. The following is the estimate which
I have formed of the revenue of the ensuing finan-
cial year ; Customs, 19,750,000/. ; Excise, 13,000,000/
This item I have estimated at a somewhat higher amount
than is shown by the returns furnished up to January
last, because the consumption of malt and spirits may
be expected to increase in the ensuing year. Stage
coaches I have estimated at 500,0001.; stamps at
7,200,0001.; taxes at 4,340,000/. The income-tax, which
in 1846 was estimated at 5,084,000/., and in 1847 at
5,464,0001., I have taken, during the ensuing year, at
5,200,0001. The Post• office, which, in the year ending
April 5, 1848, will have produced 922,000/., is estimated
to realise, in 1849, 900,000/. The actual amount paid
into the exchequer on account of the Crown in 1847.8 is
estimated at 60,000/.; I have set it down at the same
amount for the ensuing year. The miscellaneous
estimates, in 1847.8, amounted to 325,0001, which
includes a sum paid in on account of House
of Commons fees ; I have set them down at
300,000/. The whole of these different items con-
stitute a prospective revenue for the ensuing finan-
cial year of 51,250,000/. I should state to the House
that for several years past there has been a regular
decrease in the amount received of China money, and
that now there are no hopes of any more being paid.—
(Considerable laughter.) Taking the whole amount of
the expenditure as voted last year at the estimated sum of
52,315,709/, and the receipts as already enumerated at
51,250,0001., there will be a deficiency between the
receipts and expenditure of the ensuing year of
1,065,709/. That is to say, the deficiency which I have
stated will exist, supposing the expenditure is the same
as last year. But there is also a large sum to be voted
for the excess of the navy expenditure during the year
1847, and also the sum of 1,100,0001. required to defray
the expenses of the Kafir war. Those two items con-
stitute a total amount of 1,345,500/, which, added to
tho deficiency of 1,065,7001„ which will exist, supposing
we maintain our establishments on their present foot-
ing, will constitute a total deficiency in the revenue of
2,411,2001. Now, Sir, I have wished to lay the foregoing
statement of the finances before the House of Commons
at this early period, in order that the House may take
into its most deep and serious consideration the state of
the finances and the circumstances of the country, and
from those two elements to come to some resolve with
respect to the course which shall seem most befitting to the
interests and the credit of the country to pursue. There
arcrvarious courses open for us to take. All that I in-
tend doing to-night is to propose to the House that
course which the Government has deemed it best to
pursue under the circumstances, leaving it open
to the deliberation of the House whether the propo-
sitions which we bring forward are worthy of adop-
tion, or, if not, what other course will be most suit-
able to the circumstances of our financial position, and
to the future welfare of the country. And, Sir, it can-
not but strike every ono who looks into the facts which
I have detailed, that there is a groat question involved in
the existing state of our finances—namely, that we mast
either supply the deficiency which I have pointed out,
by increasing our taxation, or else that we must come to
a resolution to the effect that we can make very great
reductions in our military and naval establishments,
whereby we shall be enabled to reduce the expenditure
of the country, and thus meet the current demand upon
the revenue, without being obliged to have recourse to
increased taxation. Those, Sir, are the subjects which
I have wished the House to take into its consideration,
and it now becomes my duty to state what views
the Government entertains upon these questions
(Hear, hear.) Sir, there have been, I think,
extreme opinions held and expressed out of
doors on the subject of our national defences. These
opinions comprise on the one hand, as it appears to me,
four different propositions. First, that we may at any
moment of time be suddenly involved in a war ; second,
that we were liable to an invasion ; third, that the
foreign powers, and particularly France, had been mak-
ing great military preparations of late ; and, fourth,
that our defences were at the present moment totally in-
adequate to offer any effectual resistance in the event of
any attack or invasion being suddenly made. On the
other hand it has been urged that we are at this mo-
ment in a state of profound peace with the continental
powers, and that our relations with France in particular
are most friendly, so that an invasion on her part
is the most improbable occurrence that could have
been suggested.—(Hear, hear.) It has likewise been
stated that all these circumstances were argu-
ments for the reduction of the expenditure, and that
the establishments of the country were not only not upon
a low footing, but were, on the contrary, extravagantly
high. These, Sir, are the;propositions pro and con which
have bean urged out of doors upon the subject of the
national defences; and I confess and feel the difficulty,
not to say delicacy, which surrounds the subject, and
which makes me somewhat diffident in approaching it.
But, Sir, so largely and freely have all these topics been
discussed out of doors, that I feel I cannot refuse to
state to the House what are the views enter-
tained by the Government upon this question.
Let me, in the first place, most carefully guard myself
against the supposition that I think in our foreign
relations, and especially in respect to France, there
is the smallest reason to fear that any rupture of the
existing peace is to be anticipated.—(Hear, hear.) No
man in this House is more fully persuaded than I am of
the advantages to England, to Europe, to the whole
world in short, of the continuance of the existing peace,
and, above all, of the importance of preserving our pre-
sent friendly relations with France.—(" Hear," on all
sides.) Sir, it is my belief that these tvvoigreat coun-
tries, both of which possess the advantages of a repre-
sentative and a constitutional government, both of which
have earned glory enough to satisfy the most ardent
thirst for military reputation, it is, I repeat my opinion,
that on those grounds there exist no reasons why the
relations between France and England should not hence-
forth be of the most amicable nature ; and, Sir, it is my
earnest wish that our intercourse may be most intimate
in future.—(Hear, hear.) There is, however, another
point of view from which the existing relations between
France and England have been judged of, and which it is
necessary for me to bring under consideration in looking
at the present question—l find it stated in a pamphlet,
written, I must say, in the most friendly spirit by M.
Michel Chevalier, and exclusively devoted to the subject
we are now considering, that the Duke of Wellington
had thought it necessary to make a sort of pamphleteer-
ing manifesto in answer to the Prince de Joinville.
Now, I will venture to say that nothing could have been
further from the intention of the Duko of Wellington
than to make any such communication.—(Hear, hear.)
I know well that nothing could have caused him greater
pain than the publicity which had been given to an
opinion which he expressed privately and in a confiden-
tial manner.--(Hear, hear.) The Duke of Wellington,
Sir, bas from time to time communicated to the Go-
vernment, and does so now, that which he considers
ought to be done in respect to the defences of the
country, and he has pointed out wherein there exists any
deficiencies in those defences. But, in doing so, nothing
could have been farther from his intention or his wish
than to make any appeal to the country or to inflame the
people cf England so as to disturb or endanger our
amicable relations with France. Nothing, Sir, can, in
my opinion, be purer than the patriotism of the Duke of
Wellington—(Hear)--and when I speak of patriotism, I

do not mean that instinctive feeling which prompts a man
to love his country above al lothers. To the Duke of
Wellington's patriotism there has always been joined an
opinion which I share most cordially with him, that one
of the reasons why it was most desirable the indepen-
dence of England should be maintained was, because
that independence was a guarantee for the independence
and civilization of Europe, and of the other countries of
the world.—(Hear, hear.) No man, Sir, is justified, or
indeed is able to cast blame on the Duke of Wellington,
if he expressed his opinion in the way I state it to have
been conveyed (Hear, hear)—and I should think it
quite unnecessary to defend him, or to refer to the sun-
ject of his letter, if it had not been that I have the mis-
fortune, in the first place, to differ from somo of his
opinions; in the second place, to have become cognisant
of the fact, that not only foreigners, but also many
persons in this country have mistaken his views; and,
lastly, that however strong his cause zany be, he has
always scorned to have recourse to self-defence.
Having said thus much respecting the Duke
of Wellington's letter, I will now refer to
the four different points of view in which
I regard it. With respect to the first supposition that
has been expressed, that, namely, of the probability of our
being involved in a war, which unhappily, notwithstand-
ing the existing peace, is a contingency that ne one can
deny the existence uf; since the great peace of 1815 we
have had questions with the United States, Russia,
France, and other foreign 'powers, which, if they had
not been managed with the utmost forbearance on both
sides, might have led to a rupture and to a state of war.
Even so late as the year 1844, at a moment when our re-
lations with France were of the most friendly descrip-
tion, a question arose of tile most deeply compromising
character to those relations. An insult was offered to
a civil officer of the British Crown at a distant station,
and some hesitation was displayed by France in making
a reparation for that insult. The Right Hon. Baronet
opposite (Sir R. Peel), who was then First Lord of the
Treasury, spoke in this House respecting that trans-
action in language which was not only justi-
fiable but necessary ; and yet I have been as
sured by French gentlemen of great judgment and poli-
tical knowledge that the language made use of by the
Right Hon. Baronet on that occasion had rendered it
difficult for the Government of France to tender the
necessary reparation. If that was the case upon the oc-
casion to which I refer, what circumstances might not
daily arise to bring about a similar difficulty, and what
a degree of susceptibility does it not show to exist oil
the part both of Eugland and France, which, possessing
great strength, are acutely alive to any oucurrence which
may tarnish their honour? When such slight accidents
as these arise to threaten the existence of peace, how
little is it in the power of the Executive Government to
foresee the moment at which that peace may not be dis-
tui bed. I cannot, therefore, but admit, that however
tranquil the aspect of our foreign relations may be
there is always a possibility that a rupture may occur;
and when I recollect that Mr. Pitt, wit% all
his sagacity. predicted, in the year 1792, a long
peace, I cannot discover any reason why England
in the present time ought not to be on the look-out for
the contingency of a war breaking out, nor is it other
than impossible for me to foresee the moment at which
such an event may suddenly occur. With regard to the
second point which I adverted to—namely the danger of
an invasion, although I am not one of those who either
dread or anticipate such an event, yet however impro
liable it may be deemed, it is one to be guarded against,
During the course of three hundred years, as any reader
of history will readily recollect, there have been nume-
rous occasions on which invasions of England have been
projected and attempted. The elements on more than
one of those occasions have stood our friends, and expe-
ditions fitted out with the greatest care and equipped
most completely have been defeated by adverse winds,
and the armaments intended for our destruction
have been scattered and destroyed.—(Hear, hear.)
But the science and skill v hich have been exer-
cised of late years, since the general peace of
1815, have enabled our sailors to traverse the sea
against the wind and tide, and, in defiance of the
elements, to conduct a vessel across the seas. Other
nations are possessed of the same advantages; and it is
possible that a hostile force may, under such appliances,
be conducted into our harbours, or appear on our coasts.
With regard to the third point—namely, that prepara-
tions for war have been made by foreign nations, and by
France in particular—it must be recollected that of late
years, and since the revolution of 1830, that country has
been governed by a King who is, I believe, a sincere
lover of peace, notwithstanding that has, during
the whole of his reign, maintained an increased
and an increasing force. That increase cannot
be said, as in our own case, to be necessary for the
defence of wide colonial possessions, or to protect an
extended commercial navy, scattered over the ocean,
and laden with vast riches. Neither the extent of
the French colonies, nor the extent of the com-
merce of that country, require such a large
increase in her forces as I find to have taken place
within the last few years. In the year 1833 I find
that the increase in the naval conscriptions was 101,000
men. In 1847 the conscription for the navy was 134,000
men. Tho effective force of marines in 1833 was 11,000,
and in 1847 it had increased to 20,000: The value of
the annual consumption of material increased from
640,0001. in 1833 to 820,0002 in 1847. The number of
vessels at sea in 1833 amounted to 153, and in 1847 to
216.—(Hear, hear.) Of this number, 66 were steamers
at sea; the whole force of steamers in the French navy
being 111. The number of seamen increased during the
same period from 16,807 to 29,000, and the expenditure
from 2,280,0001. to 3,902,3201. The amount of stores
now afloat is 3,000,0001., and the amount in the French
arsenals, and in preparation, are in proportion. But
then, I am told that in the French estimates for the
present year there has been a reduction. It is true
that in the naval estimates there has been a reduc-
tion or saving to the amount of 81,000/. in the wages
of seamen, but then there has been an increase of
112,0001. in stores for the fortifications and dockyards,
making altogether this year an increase of 31,0001.,
and no diminution of expense.—(Hear, hear.) I have
here another statement respecting the navy of :the
French, with which it is not worth while troubling the
House, but it shows the whole sum voted for the army
and navy for the year 1849 to be 3,817,107/. Now Ido
not allude—and I am sure the House will bold me right
in this respect—to what may be the military forces of
foreign powers. I do not allude to what may be
,the
number of the standing army of France, or Austria, or
Prussia, or any other foreign country; but when I see
a great increase in the naval estimates of another coun-
try, then I think the subject requires attention, and
should bo placed within the knowledge of this House
and the country.—(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, there are—
of course I need not say so, for every one has heard
the statement—there are eleven in number of these
French steamers which would carry twelve or
fifteen hundred men each, and which might
cm—baeasniplheiresle:epeaonwrrereldueihandaf
No:
England,
beentransportnoccupationdallsudden
thist the
destroy our danger,e capital,
there
exposed
n to
ao
has been no adequate naval or military preparation going
on on our part. Now I do beg the House to attend to
what has been made a matter of reproach by some Hon.
Members, and which ought to be a source of consolation
to those who are so fearful that our forces can never be
made sufficiently great. I shall tell both the increase of
itnhetwcohancelior particular
o
force we have made since 1835, or, rather, I should say,
years.the RightExl‘clyhequ er stated
n HonourablelB36,that
Friendtt
in one b ear there was an increase of 5,000 seamen.
The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, when he
came into office in 1845, further increased the number
by 4,500. The whole increase in seamen, boys,
and marines, has been from 15,500 seamen in 1835
to 27,500 in 1448, boys to 18,000, and marines from
9. ,000 to 13,500, making an increase in all from 26.500
in 1835 to 43,000 in 1848. The army has been increased
from 100,991 to 138,769, making an increase of 37,778.
The ordnance has been increased from 8,262 men in
1835 to 14,294, being an increase of 6,072. So that the
whole of our regular force, army, navy, and ordnance
has been increased from 135,742 men in 1835 to 196,063
in 1848, being an increase of 60,321 in that period of
time. I have now stated every item of increase. I
think that our force was inadequate in 1835, and that
therefore those items of increase have been very pro-
perly voted by this House ; but, at all events, it can-
not be said that there has been any neglect or unwill-
ingness on the part of this House to vote what were
deemed necessary estimates.—(Hear, hear.) There
have been also of late years other kinds of forces which
have been drilled and organized, and which, I believe,
will be found, in case of the necessity arising, most useful
and effectual. Under the late Government 15,000 old
soldiers of the line were organised as pensioners. Under
the present Government there have been enrolled dock-
yard battalions, a very efficient force I believe, and
amounting to 18,900 men thus composed:—Artillery,
2,843; boat battalions, 2,016; infantry, 3,428; sappers
and miners, 586. The number of guns allotted to this
force is—field pieces, 168; ship guns, 144; battery guns,
336, worked by the artillery; and 432 worked by the
infantry; making in all 1,080 guns. A great part of
this force could at any time be sent to another part of
the kingdom with their field pieces, supposing that part
in which they are stationed not to be threatened. There
has likewise been a plan for organizing and drilling the
coast guard, and in adding to that force other men who,
for a certain small amount of pay attend on certain
days for drill, and will make, as I believe, a very efficient
force, the coast guard being 2,000 and the supplemental
force 6,000 men. I do not think, therefore, that on
the ground of the number of men, there has bean any
unwillingness on the part of the Governments of
the different periods to which I have alluded, or
on the part of this House, to make adequate
provision for the national defence.—(Hear, hear.) The
kniounts voted have increased at least in proportion to
the number of men I have stated ; so much so that, con-
fining
myself to the various items of army, navy, and
ordnance, the estimates have increased from 11,730,073/.
in 1335, to 17,340,096/. in 1848. The question then to
which I come is thitn whether we should now make a
very great reduction in our forces, whether we should,
taking the opposite view, make a very large increase, or
whether we should continue adding from time to time
to such parts of that force as may seem to the Govern-
ment and the country to require increase, resting satisfied
with such additions and alterations as may be suited to
circumstances. Our view is, that, in the first place,
considering the position of this country, considering her
immense empire, the number of colonies which have been
added to that empire, the various great changes in our
military force, the possibility of war, the duty of this
country to defend herself, and to maintain our indepen-
dence, it would not he wise to endeavour to make our ex-
penditure equal to our income by any large reductions.
On the other hand, we are uo less of opinion that there
is no reason for sudden alarm or precipitate preparation.
Our belief is, that, taking the different forces you have of
navy, army, and ordnance, with moderate additions to
certain parts of these services, this country will be in a i

fit state of defence, and thereby obtain the best security ins shall be most to the advantage of the essuntry.—
for peace.---(Hear.) I say security for peace, because I ! (Hear, hear.) I will now state what will be the whole
consider that the object of all these armaments is to ob- ' expenditure under the different heads for the year from
lain the!, security.—(clear.) Let any one consider , the sth April, 1848, to the sth April, 1849. 2.ire charge
what would be the effect, in case there was such an no- ! for the funded debt is 27,778,0001.; unfu .nded debt,
cident as I have alluded to in 1844, concurrently with 752,6001 ; making together 28,536,6001. 1 consoli-
such an unfortunate state of relations between this dated fund charges I take at 2,750,000/.; the expenses we
country and a foreign power as existed in 1840. have to pay for the Kafir war, 1,100,0001.; naval excess
(Hear, hear.) In every country the people arc in for the year before last, 245,5001.; ch avge for the
such cases divided into two parties. One party is for navy for this year, 7,726,6101.; army, 7,162, 9962; ord-
the maintenance of peace ; while there is another nance, 2,924,835/. ; miscellaneous, 4,006,00 C I.—making
for rushing at once into war.—(Hear.) If the party in all, including navy, army, ordnance, and raised-
which is for war can say, "Look ; 3 our neighbour is laneous, 54,446,5001. I add to this 150,0 00/. for the
totally defenceless. Now is the moment for a de- militia, and we have a total of 54,596 .5001.—(11ear,
cisive blow, which she will never recover." I say that, hear.) It is evident, therefore, if her JiLajesty's Go-
under such circumstances, the war party would have a vernment are correct in the view they h; we taken of the
great advantage in discussion.—(Hear, hear.) On the necessities of the country—if they are rig at in believing
other hand, if the peace party can say, "You are mis- that, looking at those necessities, it is n. zt expedient to
taken in that view : look at the preparations she has make large reductions, but that it is exp• :client rather to
made, all her forces quite ready. Any attempt by sud- go on maintain:ng and improving the fo tees we have—
den surprise to overpower that country must be met by it is obvious that not only must I prop, Ise a renewal of
signal defeat." I say that with just foundation for such the income tax, which will expire this 3 'ear, but that it
an answer the peace party would gain an immediate will be necessary, supposing the House should approve
vctory.—(llear, hear.) Well, then, what is our state ? of our estimates, or anything like the estimates of she
So far as regards the navy, we propose in the navy past year—it will be necessary that ad Jitional taxation
estimates of this year ati increase of 161,0001. Of this, be imposed.—(Murmurs.) In adverti ag to this quese
94,000/. is for services not strictly naval, leaving lion lam speaking of that which I thin k .are the necese
70,000/. only for the increase of our naval expenses. I sitics of the time to come. It is obvi. tus that a great
have in my hand a privateletterof Lord Auckland's writ- portion of the deficiency to which. I alluded at
ten to me in consequence of my desire that he should time commencement of my statement, is, do. pendent on a
pay every attention both to the estimates he had of the state of the country, afflicted with searoit y, and cense-
French navy, and those which were to be laid before the quent commercial and manufacturing Mistress; and
House of Commons. Without troubling the House with though it would be idle and presumptuous. -to say that we
the early details of his letter, Lord Auckland says : are at once to return to a state of pew perky, yet we
[The substance of the letter, which the Noble Lord read may, I think, look forward, within 110 vt iry long course
in a low and rapid tone of voice, was a statement of the of years, to an improved condition of tot:amerce and
present force of the French navy in commission, censist- manufactures.—(Bear, hear.) It we are blessed with
ing (as we understood) of six ships of the line in coin- I bountiful harvests, the effects of that sea rcity of which
mission de rade, and four in commission de force. Against I we have had to speak will in time be nod ioubt rtmoved;
this it was proposed that we should have eleven ships in and, as regards the income of the count dry, we may, at
commission, six with Admiral Parker, arid five with no very distant period, look for improv. tment.—(Hear,
Admiral Napier. In addition to thi-; the Bellerophon hear.) And, with respect to the staceme, at I have made
would soon be completed, making twelve ships of the as to the expenditure, it must be remem be ed that no
line. But by reducing ono we could maintain three less than 1,100,0001. is required for the tun a for defray-
guardships, in a condition equivalent to the French ing the expenses of the Kafir war, . and the last dise
commission de rade. If these latter were required for patches we have from the Cape contain ale tter from Sir
sudden service they could be fitted up with marines, and tarry Smith, in which he states that, from the accounts
if required for ordinary service they could be fitted up forwarded to him, lie has every reason to believe that the
in the usual manner, and sent to a foreign station. The war is at au end. I cannot, however, say ti alit there is'
writer further proposed a reserve of steamers, first at consequently, an end of the bill—(A laugh)—but
Portsmouth, consisting of 3,386 horse-power; a small I presume the next vote we shall have to take for this
squadron at Cork, and another at Sheerness, five at each purpose will be considerably less than the present, and
place. As the new steamers were brought into active that the war being ended, we may look t o the speedy
service the old ones were to be adapted to harbour de- termination of this source of expense.—(As r observation
fence, and to be manned with a short complement of was here made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.)
officers and men. The expense of keeping their boilers My Hight Hon. Friend says truly, that th is 1,100,0001.
in order would be considerable, hut nothing like so great is for two years, therefore we must not (a: spent, under
as the expense of sea-going steamers.] The Noble any circumstances, a charge of the like ;L mount in the
Lord continued—l think that is aiii s e precaution. It estimates of next year. On both these gr.); ands, then—
refers to that which must be our first defence in case of first, on the ground of future improvem et it in the re-
war; and lot it riot be forgotten that if there be edema- venue—though I will not be so sanguine as to estimate
Cages in the invention of steam fur the purposes of in the present budget to what extent that • improvement
conveying troops rapidly across the sea, there are other may be in the course of the ensuing year ,---and on the
advantages attached to the invention for the purposes of ground of diminished expense on account of the Kafir
blockade, and of watching ports, of which, with the skill war, we may, I think, fairly hope that onl y a temporary
and science of British seamen, this country would not be increase will be required in our esti., mates.—(Hear,
slow to take advantage of.-e--(Hear, hear.) I should hear.) In saying on what, in any view ,„ the increase
hold, therefore, that with the present votes we should of taxation should be, I shall consider tb ,e present state
be fully prepared, so far as naval preparations are of the country, together with the g rant reduction
concerned. I do not with to enter more particularly made by the late Government and by lerimer Govern-
into details, nor do I think it would be de- merits on articles of general consumption. I think any
sirable.—(llear, hear.) I should state, however, that its attempt to impose a per tentage on those. tax able articles
the naval estimates of this year we propose, in confer- would fail in giving you the revenue requir ed.—(Hear,
mity with the declaration of last year, to increase the hear.) Any new tax on those articles of c onsumption
marines by 3,000, that is to say, to add 1,500 to the wools in my opinion, be very unwise at e.his moment,
1,500 which were voted last year. Then with regard to and much more so if you thought such in crease of tax
another point to which I have net keen immediately would not last beyond a short period. s knd for this
alluding now, to the estimates of the present year, with reason, that you would have all the difficut ties and em-
regard to what created a great deal of alarm at one time barrassments consequent upon the prepare Lions for col-
-namely, the defence of the dockyards and ports, I lectiag and the expense of bringing into co llection a tax
should state that that subject attracted the most serious which Wollia be imposed only for a short p !riot]; there-
attention of the late Government, and was must carefully lore the proposition we have to make is, and I may as
examined, and when examined was attended to, a thing well now state it at once—(Hear,hear)—the proposition
I must say which had fur some years been greatly we have to make is to renew the press tnt income-
neglected. looking over what had been :pent during tax from April next, when it would otherwise
the last few years since 1844, he found that on Ports- expire, for a period of five years—(Cries: of " Ob,
mouth was spent 101,2101. ; Plymouth and Devonpori, oh)—and that the House should vote an in-
-57,000/.; Penabroke,33,633/.; Sheerness, 70,876/.; making crease of that tax from 7d. to 1s in the
a total of 262,7961., of which 54,0001. was for the pound, or from three to five per cerV.s for a
_ _

purchase of land. I believe that the fortifications
which have been erected were made by skilful ergi•
neers. I know that the Commander-in Chief, the Duke
of Wellington, and the Master-General of the Ordnance
inspected them last 3.ear, and the Duke of Wellington
assured me that he was perfectly satisfied with what
was doing. With regard to the army it should be
stated that, although we do not propose the increase of a
single man in the estimates, and although there apt-ears
a diminution, yet the number of men in the United
Kingdom will be very materially increased by the
number of regiments returning from India. I cannot
put down the number that will arrive during the present
spring and summer at less than 5,000, and it may pos-
sibly be more than that. The reduction of the army in
India has been accomplished by the care and economy
of Sir Henry Hardinge, who, after terminating the
conflict by his skill and courage, determined, %hen
peace had been restored, to place the finances in
such a condition as to secure the credit of the Go-

vernment, and he therefore tuck upon himself
the unpopular task of retrenchmcut.—(Hear, bear,
and cheers.) I may state perhaps in this place, that
with all this reduction, the peace of India was never so
well secured. We have there, after all these returns, an
army of 240,000 men, of whom 28,000 are Europeans;
and this, too, after having reduced the expenditure by
the amount of a million sterling.—(hear, hear.) The
effect of all this will be considerably to increase the
number of men in this country during the present year,
so that the number of rank and file in the United King-
dom, being at present 55,000, will be increased, I ex-
pect, to GO,OOO in the course of the summer. I believe
it is a long time since there was so large a force in the
United Kingdom, It is not produced by proposing an
increased vote, but partly by bringing men home from
the colonies,—a regiment from the West Indies, and
some others,—and it will, no doubt, be increased by a
regiment from the Cape, as Sir Harry Smith has pro-
mised that the return regiment, which e as lately detained
there, should be immediately sent home. The number of
men in the United Kingdom has been increased by more
than 20,000 since the year I mentioned, 1835. I
will not detain the House with details, as on the army
estimates the Secretary at War will explain them fully.
The amount of increase for the army is 43,0001., but
with regard to the ordnance we propose a more consi-
derable increase. It has appeared to us that with respect
to the infantry of an army you may make rapid increase,
but that with respect to the artillery and the corps of
sappers and miners, they form a description of force
which you could hardly make efficient under a training
of eighteen months or two years. Taking that view of
the question we proposed last year, and we propose again
in the present year, an increase in the number of the
artillery and the sappers and miners. The increase we
propose to make in the first vote is 99,0001., which will
give an increase of 400 sappers and miners, and 1,451
royal artillerymen the total increase being 1,90::.
We also propose to make an increase, and a consider-
able one, in the ordnance estimates, under the head
of stores. From the statement of the Master-
General of the Ordnance, who I desired to lay
fully before the House all the particulars of the charges
connected with his department, it appears that :an
increased supply of small arms, and an additional stuck
of gunpowder will be absolutely necessary during the
present year—these being articles which, in case of war
suddenly breaking out, we could not depend upon ob-
taining an adequate supply of immediately, and there-
fore it is necessary we should make provision be:ore-
hand. The increase in the estimates will be, therefore,
in the Ordnance 245.0001.—in the Navy Estimates, for
naval purposes, 70,0001., and in the army the increase
will be 43,000/.; making a total addition of 358,0001.
There is another species of force with respect to which
we propose to lay a measure before the House in the
course of the present session, and with regard to which
I also propose to take a vote for a sum of money in the
estimates I am now laying before you. However effi-
cient that amount of force connected with the three ser-
vices I have named is, it is to be considered—amongst
the chances of a war, the remote chances if you will—
but it is always to be considered possible that an enemy
might land on our shores, and you would then have to
garrison Portsmouth, Plymouth, and the other dock-
yards, and places of defence on our coasts. It does
not appear that your number of 60,000—large as that
number is as compared with the force you hare had at
your command in former years—would altogether suffice
for the purpose of garrisoning those places, and at the
same time leave you a sufficient disposable force for the
general defence of the eountry.—(Hear, hear.) Now,
Sir, the force to which the country has in former times
been in the habit of looking in aid of the regular army
for the purposes of internal defence—and it
.has always
been stated to be the constitutional force of this country
—(Hear, hear)—and one that has been kept up in former
times in periods of peace—a force, too, which was the
favourite one of perhaps the greatest man this cpuntry
ever produced—Lord Chatham—(Hear)—is the militia
force.---(Cheers.) I am aware that ditlicultiesattach to
this subject now which did not formerly exist. The
habits of the country are so changed that in dealing
with this question you find yourselves placed between
these two difficulties. If you take substitutes, such are
the migratory habits of the lower classes that you could
not depend upon having them when wanted, while, on the
other hand, it you refused substitutes you would be im-
posing on the people a hardship in respect to military
service to which they have never bsen accustomed,
and which would be galling and distasteful to them.—
(Hear.) Such are the difficulties with which this ques-
tion is beset. We shall propose such a measure, How-
er!, as appears to us to be best calculated to meet these
ffi diculties ; and I am most anxious that that measure
should be considered by the House, and, should it be
approve d of on :the second reading, that its provisions
should be fully discussed in Committee as to whether the
measure is one which is in every way fitted for the pre-
sent circumstances of the country. It will be for the
House to decide whether a militia force is one that can
and ought to be raised under their present circumstances.
It you can make it practicable, I believe it is correct In
principle, as it is, I know, useful in a national point of
view, to have a portion of the people trained to the use
of arms, who, in case of hostilities, might be brought
together, and marched at once to any spot that might be
threatened.i
And, though there are many reasons in favour
of such a force, still, should the House nut at once conclude
that it would be desirable now to establish a militia
force, that measure might, nevertheless, afford the means
next year, or in future years, of providing such an ex-
tension of the regular military force of the country as
should ensure us at all times a sufficient force to oppose
against any enemy who threatened to invade us.—(Hear,
hear.) I propose, therefore, to take a vote of 130,000/.
in the estimates of the present year for the purpose of
hiying the foundation of this military force. I have
stated what are the difficulties of the case, and I have
only to add that I shall be most happy to have the
I
assistance of the House in coming to such a conclusion

- period of two years.— (Murmurs of dissont from
various puts of the House.) And now, Sir, It will state,
without going into the argument on the s adject, that
considering the very great distress which f,or the last-
two years has prevailed in Ireland—considerin g too, that
you did not originally in 1842 impose this tax upon
Ireland—taking into account also the very gr eat strug-
gles now making in order to adapt the social condition
of Ireland to the great changes which have is ken place
in that country, and that all classes—lancilm.ds in the
improvement of land, and farmers in the pa yment of
wages—arc required to take part in that great; change--
taking these things into,consideration, we thin k--though
fully admitting in the abstract the justice of imposing
this tax upon Ireland, as well as upon Englan d—(Hear,
hear)-1 say, though fully admitting the justice of that
proposition—(Bear, hear) —we consider that t his is not
the moment for extending the income-tax to that
country.—(Cheers from the Irish Members, and cries
of " Oh, oh," from other parts of the H:ouse.) I

must beg Gentlemen, when they come to that
argu went, a little to consider that we have not only. to
delicerate ou what may be abstractedly fair and just
with regard to the imposition of taxes in England and
Ireland, but that we have likewise to take into account
the fact that the prosperity of the whole of the United
Kingdom is bound up together, and that if you check
the exertions Ireland is making to place hernelf in a
state of future prosperity, you in fact place a check upon
the prosperity of the United Kingdom gencrally.—
(Hear, hear.) But if, on the other hand, you refrain
from imposing upon Ireland burdens which she might
at the moment be unable to meet, reserving them until
she is more equal to bear them—(Laughter)—you do
provide for the prosperity of England and Scot.-
land, as well as Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) We
propose, therefore, to take the income-tax exactly
.as
it has been imposed in past years ; on the same prin-
ciple on which it was originally proposed and defended
by Mr. Pitt ' • on the same principle on which
it was afterwards increased by Lord Grenville and by
Lord Lansdowne—(Cheers and laughter)—and on
the same principle on which it was again imposed and
defended by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir IL
Peel).—(Derisive cheers.) I am aware that I voted
against that tax when it was proposed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman—(lmmense cheering)—and I hold that I
was perfectly right in so doing.—(Hear, and a laugh.)
I know, too, that I voted for it in 1845—(Hear, hear)—
and I neither regret the vote I gave in 1842, nor that
which I afterwards gave in 1845.—(Hear, hear.) My
Right Hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth (Mr. F.
T. Baring) said, in the discussion upon the question in
1845, " The question in 1842 was, whether you would
continue other taxes—whether you would diminish
protective duties, or impose an income-tax. You have
taken your course, and now, in 1845, it would be, I
think, inexpedient to repeal that tax, or allow it to
fall, for the purpose of imposing other taxes." I think
my Right Honourable Friend was right in that view,
and that was the principle on which I supported the
measure of 1845, and on which I now bring forward
the present proposition. On looking at this question,
may I esk for a short time the attention of the
House to the great reductions which have been made
Irons time to time in the duties on such articles as come
into the consumption of the great body of the people.
Adam Smith said there were three or four taxes on the
necessaries of life, and he mentioned candles, leather,
coals, and soap; the duties on these four articles have
been taken off. lie stated also that the taxes on malt
and beer were equal to about twenty-five or twenty-six
per cent. on the malt. That that tax has beenconsiderably
reduced is well known. The tax on salt amounted yearly to
1,490,0001.; on candles, 482,0004; coals (brought coast-
wise), 958,0001.; leather, 600,0001; beer and cyder,
3,080,0001.; glass, :647,0004; sugar, 2,300,0001.; butter
and cheese, 112,000/.; and you may add, taking the
average of the last five years, the duties on grain and
meal, which will be taken off next February, 862,0001.;
the whole amounting to 10,543,0004 of yearly taxes
removed from articles entering into consumption
by the great body of the people. In addition to this, it
must not be forgotton that there are very many articles
now admitted which were formerly prohibited, and
which I have omitted. I have, therefore, in this estimate
understated the amount. The whole amount of taxes
taken off since the peace, deducting the income-tax and
all other taxes which have been imposed during that
time, are equal to a reduction of taxation of not less
than 39,705,341/. a year. I do not think, therefore,
when such has been the diminution of taxation, that we
are now asking too much of the House when we call
upon them for a temporary increase of the present di-
rect taxation, in the face of the circumstances of almost
unparalleled difficulty which have occurred during the
past year, and with a view of keeping up our establish-
ments, I trust not extravagantly, not inordinately, but
with a view to the permanent maintenance and defence
of the country. The result would be an expenditure as I
have stated, of 54,596,500/., and an income of 51,250,0004
increased by the income-tax, which I take at an amount
less than I might take it if there had not been so much
commercial distress, namely, at 3,500,0004, so as to
make the total income 54,750,000/. There is one tax
which presses very severely upon one species of industry,
which sins against those principles you have of late
years adopted, and which might be taken off without
that great diminution of revenue which the reduction of
the duty on tea, or the removal of the window-tax,
eould inflict. I allude to the tax upon copper ore lell•
posed in 1842 upon the ground that it was to be ad-
mitted at a small duty, instead of smelting in bond,
and that that duty would not produce any serious effect.
Now although the duty was considered small, the effect
of it, or if not the effect of it, the concomitant effect,
had been that smelting has been performed in Chid,
where it had not been used before, and the smelting
establishments in this country have in consequence
greatly suffered. I do not think that the towners of
copper mines would be injured if we took off this small
duty, while by doing so we would remove those ob-
stacles whicn impede the prospects of smelting from
resuming their favourable aspect. Repealing that tax,
which I take at 41,0001., the amount it was last year,
we should have 54,750,000/. of revenue and 54,637,0001.
as the expenditure, leaving a surplus of 113,000/. That
surplus, I must again observe, would be considerably
larger but for the extraordinary expenditure of
1,100,0001, and 'would have enabled us to take off other
taxes which press heavily on the people. Although
I stated that I should confine myself to an outline, I
have been obliged to enter considerably into detail
both as regards the diminution of revenue, and the
estimates we propose for meeting it. I have done so
with the view of laying those estimates fairly
before the House, that the House might make up its
mind calmly and deliberately upon the subject. We might
have asked for the navy and army estimates, showing
a small increase, and postponed our statement at a later
period; butt think it is due to the House of Commons
that they should know fully what is the question before

I

1

them; and that if they voted the estimates we propose,.
some increase of taxation would be necessary. We
therefore submit to the House at once, that question
which may be the most difficult, and the most unpopular,
but which- we are bound to look in the face as affecting
not only the public puree, bet the independence and
honour of the country as well. This House has been
enabled to take off nearly 40,000 0001. of taxes, of which
-more than 10,000,000/. pressed upon the comforts and
'enjoyments of the industrious portion of the community.
But while doing that, you were also enabled not only
:to preserve the empire undiminished, but to extend
• Wit. Consistently with that large reduction, you
have been enabled, under the guidance of the Right
Hon. Baronet the Member for Turnworth, to give scope
to those principles of commerce of which Adam Smith
was the great propounder, and of which William Pitt, in
the plenitude of his power, declared himself the disciple.
'ou have been enabled to suppress an insurrection in
Canada, to repel an aggression in India, to maintain
your colonial ,:enablishreent and give protection to
Your fellow-subjects at the Cape of Good Hope—
subjects of the same sovereign, and inheritors of the
aarne glorious constitution as members of the
British empire. I believe that, if you continue in
this course, uplending the credit of the country, you will
be enabled in future years to give still further relief to
the people by a reduction of taxation. I regret it is not
in my power honestly to propose such reduction at
present; but, consistently with my duty to the country,
I elnnot do so. I have taken, I am aware, that which
is the odious part of a duty, but which
.being a duty I
cannot shrink from. I will conclude by stating my
strong conviction to be that, by taking tles course, you
will in time see the commercial credit of the country
restored, you will preserve unimpaired the public faith,
and run no danger of seeing this great empire insulted
or injured by any power whatsoever.—(Loud cheers.)
The Noble Lord concluded by proposing resolutions,
with a view of carrying into effect the plan described in
his speech.
The resolutions having been read by the Chairman,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he had proposed
the resolutions with a view to laying them before the
Bosse; and it was his intention to propose, on Monday
Be'nnight, that the House go into Cownaince, in order
that the sense of the House might be taken upon them.
Mr. III:ME had never listened to a Budget with more
Pain than on the present occasion; and he could assure
the Noble Lord that he and his colleagues saw the
country in a very different point of view from that which
presented itself to him (Mr, Hume). The Noble Lord
seemed to think that we were on the eve of a war, and
that we should make preparations necessary for such
a state of things. If we were so, he believed that
but one feeling would exist in the country in reference
to the course that House ought to pursue ; but as we
were not, he believed that the course proposed by the
Noble Lord was calculated to interrupt the peace which
et present existed, and to create strife with that country
which of all others it was the interest of this to be on
terms of
amity with—he meant France. On that ac-
;`
,i.'alar, if for no other, he deplored the statement of the
°ble Lord. He thought it most impolitic fora Minister
of the Crown to call the attention of that House to the
fees of any one State, because it was placing it imme-
diately in view as a State against which ourlforces ought
to be directed. The Noble Lord had told them that the
great decrease in the revenue had arisen from general
Poverty, and the depressed state of commerce, and yet
without assigning one single reason he proposed an
addition to the taxation of the country. Now he (Mr.
}lame) would ask the House not to add one shilling
to that taxation, but to make the present amount meet
the expenditure. The Noble Lord was acting upon the
principle, that in order to maintain peace we should ap-
nea: in arms. But at the present moment there was
nothing; to warrant or to call for such a step. The army
and navy estimates had been increased since 1835, and
when he demanded a decrease, he was told that circum-
stances connected with South America and the continent
VEurope, and other matters, required to settle down
"rat, but that the Government looked with confidence to
an ulterior reduction. He did not know that it was the
policy of England to become a military nation. The idea we were now in a time of peace keeping and
maintaining 300,000 men, including the militia,
the
this Police force, and all paid adjuncts, was what
country
es , qt.) could not and ought not to bear.
• thcs Lord had said that he would reduce
le window-tax, or any other tax that pressed upon the
and that in lieu thereof he must have 5,000,0001.
?r 10,000,0001 additional of income-tax, he should have
load
d his (Mr. Hume's) ready support; but this increased
of taxation, without any corresponding reduction,
would, he was confident, have the effect of depressing
tur
the entire commercial community, masters, manufac-
✓ ris, and men. He objected to any increase of the
eiPti'ar art :y, but still more to the enrolment of the
e
sa:iit'a• by which people would be unfitted for business
i for domestic life—more particularly at a time of
Peace.lll and when he saw so much poverty in the country,
at even in the comparatively wealthy district of Mary-
nle no less than 15,000 people were receiving assist-
"ern and when, as he was informed that day, several
nulls in the manufacturing districts wore about to be
closed.
n )t
BANKES believed that the country at largo was
eso
if i
for prepared for any such proposition as that of the
B`'
° Lord. The Noble Lord had taken credit to him-
ward not having first proposed his estimates and after-
s made his statement. But they were not so for-
Neetful of their duty- in that House as to have admitted
Crestimates until they had had the explanation ; and
ttanibilg had that explanation, he must say that it was
Lae latisfactory- The estimates relating to our national
lea!: defences were those which were received with the
et elegse e • ,
e or jealousy ; but then there was an employ-
15aent of the naval service going on at present, which ap-
eliiefarLrred to him and many others as unnecessary. By a
tl eet disposal of our naval forces some reduction, he
might be made in the national expenditure. He
e).• 'en particularly to the squadron engaged on the
ri(i'st of Africa, in a climate destructive of human
e, and for a purpose which had totally failed. He
~
-r'llseived that the withdrawal of that squadron, and the
eersation of expenditure consequent thereon, would be
':ttnutlen ith no detriment to the public service or to the
tertsts of the country. He might allude also to the
'll,
Unhappy expedition to the Tagus and the squadron ste-
t'
(ied there, keeping up a feeling of irritation in the
wind of a foreign nation.—(An llon. Member : "They
are alt come home.") Then there was the less reason
„
:.:)r increasing the expense by adding to our forces. They
I,\‘',ht to have been ordered home long ago, and the
'ile Lord and his colleagues owed to the service and
lie„country some explanation of the reasons why they
pUlitisO
long remained there, utterly useless for any
of Ships remaining long in harbour. Orin of these
re„Posehad, he believed, remained upwards of twelve
they without without having once weighed anchor. Ile
teereafore conceived that so far from there being a
tin'ers6itY for even the smallest increase of the naval
et. beres, the country might have had the satisfaction
ill, as telling it was in an effective state with regard to
tnal defences in that point to which all naturally
efitileolcd their attention. With regard to the army,
reinajlt at the present moment suggesting that any di-
IThat ri of an aggressive force might bo proper after
taight ~(1 fallen from the Noble Lord, he (Mr. Bankes)
of tii,„,°e Permitted to state that a different disposition
addit7 force might be made, by which the saving of the
'lent:°nal expenditure of which the Noble Lord had
ea. II in reference to an increase of the army might be
enten T
°r(ltiap,• was no doubt to be admitted, that for the
tha "en service a longer term of training was necessary
b for the infantry aud other branches of the service;
tit Er-
ror 'id!el!tted to the infantry they might reasonably look
dee._ Inainutien, which might be turned to the ordnance
-sena:zees
obh, " without any increase of expense. The
o,;4`)rd's. proposition with reference to the militia
the ° which would be highly unpopular throughout
an cant
old entry though the Noble Lord had described it as
had constitutional force. That might be so, but it
15er,,,°11,13' been permitted when there was no standing
ter° ea existence.
Ited.,l. RUSSELL—It existed in 1757.
NKES—It had originated in the time of
the es
.'"; and it was to avoid a standing army that
that Itl,l,liatia force had been established. He believed
%Nee° Earl of Chatham, to whom the Noble Lord had
preve'to, had recommended the militia as a force which
arose teed the necessity fur maintaining large standing
thon'' tie had nut in his days a force of 60,000 men in
'n'ere-°"lree and therefore the times of Lord Chatham
aired, very different from those in which they all now
The present proposition, in his (Mr. Bankes)
the-e-eent, was peculiarly alarming and well deserving
•
operat''elateration of those who would come under the
state, 11 of the law, because the Noble Lord had
had i that the practice of finding substitutes
vetsien't-: former times been found to be incon-
who wo ~and that consequently the persons
"Yee wthu be ballotted would be obliged them-
!very 8° serve. It' so, this would be a conscription in
in pr ._"se of the word as odious at that which existed
himself
ante under Napoleon. He (Mr. Bankes) had
181,4,
anirved in the militia in the years ISIO, 1811, and
and cheeryo, men had served with him with alacrity
'tilairiB,l:deigdi%?TniZ,s ; but than the danger of an invasion
this country. But now such a state of
tZnble Lo
~11`)t• exist, and therefore the proposition of the
th r`` would not be received with even patience
'with well.tittna• It was the cheerfulness and alacrity
tlsketsi'uthe eople of this country had carried their
re is
which had produced an effect upon Napoleon in
nlottoivlenwshthrheatened invasion, and formed the prin-
ic prevented him from puttinge. his threats
---IQlol:eution at the time he had formed his camp at
the sags' lie (Mr. Bankes) assured the Noble Lord that
it an Spirit would not be wanting in this country
thereeo°!_cason should require it to be exhibited ; and
Such no,r there was no need for the course he proposed.
faiQreed:_ ce us he had spoken of, and in which he had
nirteoir could be raised in a few days. His regiment in
the inqacen officers, who declared them fit to serve with
(lie,irn°, and that a'finer body of men never was seen.—
, a
the pr and leuehter.) The Noble Lord need not mind
the I,r,,e_tlech notes pliers, but might depend upon it, if
attempt to bully,
threatellt la nation should unhappily
risen
pe, or insult this country, the same spirit would
gresse, I",ew as had in the time when the spirit of ag-
at] en met
ge,,,, Prevailed under the d.ominion of a tyrant
cent a conqueror Such a spirit, however, did not
fhea.lf prot°pconsgittheir neighbours, the French. This half and
Lt of (let I°ll of the Noble Lord would not have the ef-
ater,o,en ehrr -
int.:- the foes of this country from insulting and
he lejuircf„er, while, on the other hand, it would add to
bunaltrbse of, a people already suffering under evils
nerfelaeseYo long deplored. At a moment when, with
barering
Rare, large portion of the working. classes were
iretild tan, at and unnaerited distress, the Legislature
de-t9" for ireriet arycienprecaution not to give them real
re lesto atte , The Legislature bad now other
Nmedies for nd to--they had to devise how to apply
(lite distresses which actually exist. The
Li,'inioe,,,ou”,,`,Title'l that the consequence of the pro-
'lltiQtl of clia'ar°e t°
fix upon tne country a considerae
Cc', and this he proposed to meet by an