The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-11 00:00:00

COURT OF APPEAL IN CRIMINAL CASES.

Mr. E% ART wished to put a question to the Solici-
tor-General or the Secretary for the Home Department.
On a former occasion the Hon. and Learned Solicitor •
General had brought in a Bill to give a court of appeal
in criminal cases in this country. He begged to ask
whether it was the intention of the Government to
remedy the defect at present existing with respect to the
want of a court of appeal in criminal cases.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was understood to say that
it was the intention of the Government to bring in a
Bill to give a power of appeal in certain criminal
minal cases.
INDIA.
Mr. HUME rose to move for certain returns con-
nected with the atisirs of India. He thought that the
recessity for giving that information was sufficiently ap-
parent, and he would therefore throw out the suggestion
that those reports ought to be printed. During the last
ten years he had always entertained that opinion, and
he trusted that the Government would adopt that sug-
gestion, as it was likely to conduce to the general benefit.
lie would therefore suggest the propriety of printing
those reports %Melt had any concern with Indian

affairs.
THE CORN-LAWS.—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Lord EBEINGTON and Mr. HINDLEY presented peti
Lions against the repeal of the corn-laws..
Mr.s. o,
B debate,R E
On the montion being put for.the resumption of the
adjourned
N said, that in resuming this debate,
he could not help feeling that, in the consideration of
this subject there had been a great disregard of the
interests of the commonalty, and that before the
repeal of the corn-laws the Ministers ought
to have consulted the farmers respecting the
mannner in which that repeal was likely to affect them.
Whether such may be the general opinion he did not
take on himself to say, neither ,would he express any
opinion of his own on the subject. However, in refe-
rence to the question, he should say that, whatever
might be urged against the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of her Majesty's Government, he (Mr. O'Brien)
had nothing to retract or explllear.) He had
rot changed his opinion, and what he stated before he
was then prepared. .to . state again.—(" Hear,
hear," from the Ministerial benches.) A Noble
Lord who spoke last night had not only felt
it his duty to announce an alteration in his
opinions in reference to the present great ques-
tion, but also to deliver himself of a sentence, upon
which, as it formed the salient point of the Noble
Lord's speech, be hoped to be permitted to comment.
The purport of the sentence was, 'that the law of 1815
was the greatest error ever committed.—(Hear, hear.)
That might be the case ; but he turned to that side of
the House, and begged to ash who the parties were that
urged the landed interest of the country !lot to explain
or retract, but to persevere in and maintain an oppo-
sition to that law ?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The
nohtadwagnitZn ample
Right Hon. Baronet at the
.head of the Government
says he has given an opportunity to Hon. Members to
ear, and a laugh.)
retract their opinions as regarded that measure. e
felt much obliged to the Right Hon. Gentleman, bathe
as the
°Hs hpoponuo.rldt
musnaeiymtybtehyraeta
for. pr p
'Wolverhamptono
aftert Opportunities n
yt,
ee
as
r: were
—(
That brought him to another part of the question. His
Right Hon, Friend (the Premier) had said, that "if
he had changed his opinions
.an 1 not drclared such,
he should be ashamed of himself." Now he
(Mr. O'Brien) should be as:mined of him also.
But he wished to know on. what principle parties in
this country could in future be kept together ?
It might be said that that vas an old
story, and that they nitre attacking the Pre-
mier and making speechesrylial in bad cause.
governed
by party, and it might be considered to be absolute pre-
judice, but he was net ashamed, to own himself a party
man.—(Hear, hear.) It had hitherto been the custom
of this country to believe that a discussion of ques-
tions upon party principles was advisable ; that a
rigid adherence to those principles was on the
whole, with all its imperfections and all its anomalies,
the better way of eliciting the truth, and conduced to a
sound legislation.—(Hear, hear.) But he might observe
that not only had the Government chang,"ed its priaci•
pies since it came into office—((lear, hear)--but it had
practically declared that it would be bound by no strict
principles whatever.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. S. O'Brien)
was not in the House before the present Government
came into office ; the first vote which he ever gave was

to place them in their present position. But he could
undertake to say, that if ever an opposition was con-
ducted upon party principles, that opposition was which
was marshalled, headed, and led by the Right lion. Ba-
ronet at the head of the Government.--(Hear, hear,
and laughter.) The disappointment was too bitter.—
(Hear, hear.) The subject of his conduct was one
which was far too annoying, or else he would enter into
it. with perfect willingness. But he did not wish to
give personal offence to his friends, the officers of
the Government, otherwise he would subject the occu-
pants of the Cabinet to the reprobation of the House.—
(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman bad said—
and that he thought was the sum and substance of his
speech—that inasmuch as the law had failed
in the year 1842, he should, therefore, entirely aban-
don those principles on which he had come iato office.
The Right Honourable Gentleman said that the law had
failed in 1842, and the word " failure" might be under-
stood in two ways. He would wish to call to the recol-
lection of his ltight Hon. Friend what he said to the
farmers of Wiltshire, in February, 1845—( Hear, hear)
—when he made the announcement that he had become
a convert of free trade. He would wish to ask whether,
if the law failed in. 1842, the Sidney Herbert of that year
would have corresponded with the Sidney Herbert of
this ?—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He would also wish
to ask him, if it was possible for any ingenuity in
human nature to concoct a law which would
answer both those gentlemen ?—(Great laughter.) His
Right Hon. Friend in 1845 would find that law failed
for the letting in of corn freely—his Right Hon. Friend
in 1846 would find that the corn law failed in the re-
striction of the free importation of corn—therefore,
highly as lie thought of the legislative powers of his
chief, and sincerely as he might believe that he was
capable of effecting anything—and certainly the House had
seen that he was capable of effecting great things—still
that Right Hon. Gentleman asked of him too much, if
he expected that the law of 1842 could succeed in
pleasing gentlemen of both sides of the House. Bue the
question of averages was all that disappointed the ex-
pectations of his Right Hon. Friend. He could not see
the cause of that. His Right Hon. Friond might re-
member, that even if he were obliged by this
failure to give up the question of the sliding-
scale, there was a fixed duty for him to fall back
upon.—(Laughter.) He conceived that the argument
of the Right Honourable Baronet, viz., that be-
cause the sliding scale had failed in one out of
three years, it was not a good one; was not in his opinion
a sufficient reason to induce him to give up, not only his
favourite measure, but even the principles of all his life.
His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Sidney Herbert) had said
that this was not a question of delegation. He (Mr. S.
O'Brien) should say it was not a question of delegation,
but the Members of that House were the representatives
of the people, and when they voted against the interests
of their constituents, then they betrayed those interests,
and were unfit either to be delegates or representatives. It
was not merely a question of import which sent this
House before the country, and it was not merely a ques-
tion of import which placed the Right Hon. Gentleman
on the Treasury benches. He would not attempt to
treat this question as a trifling one. He would not
treat this question in that light manner that the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last had attempted to
treat it. It was a question of the greatest importance
to the agricultural interests of this country. The Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government
had said that the great potato failure in Ireland had
almost led him to throw open the ports. He (Mr. Stafford
O'Brien) did not underrate those evils ; he knew they
did exist, and he was glad to find that the Hon. and
Learned Member for Cork intended to bring forward
the evils pending that failure in Ireland the following
day. But he thought her elajesty's Ministers would
have done better by throwing open the ports
temporarily for a temporary relief, than to adopt
the present measure. How had the free trade
question been receiver] in Ireland ? The gentleman who
stood next to Mr. O'Connell in that country had re-
probated the measure; he said plainly that a re-
peal of the corn-laws would work great evil to
the farmers of that country, and would but
add to the distress which now threatened her.
He was in England when be was called back again by
the dreadful accounts which he received of the progress
of the potato disease, and he would tell the House that
those accounts were so far correct, that if the
disease had progressed as it had commenced,
there would not have been a single vegetable in Ireland
at the present moment. On my return, 1 found the dis-
ease rather mending, but it has again commenced,
either from the late wet weather or some other
mysterious arrangement of Providence. He assured
them that there never was a country which
called for more urgent measures than Ireland,
and he firmly believed, there never was a Government
mere anxious than the present for the welfare of that
country. But he should tell the Right Honourable
Member for Oxford, that the famine in Ireland re-
quired more immediate measures for its alleviation,
and he did not see how, if he would pass his Bill,
Ireland would be benefited by it one single quarter of
wheat.— (Cheers.) My Hon. Friend, observed that when
he looked round Wiltshire he was surprised how the
poor people could exist there. All he could say was,
that he generally found that the poverty of the agricultu-
ral districts was greatly to be attributed to the owners of
the soil. When they found wretched cottages, and
women and children half-clothed, they were naturally
led to inquire the name of the owner of the soil. He
had conversed with some Wiltshire farmers that morn-
ing, who bore him out in the statements he had made,
and he would do them the justice to say they believes him
to be conscienth ais in his Opinions. But he (Mr. S. Herbert)
had totally failed in the case which he had brought for-
ward to show the necessity of a repeal of the corn-laws,
in order to remedy the evils tinder which the country,
was labouring, which was simply only saying that em-
ployment and the wages of e.np!oyment tended to the
happiness of the labourer, but if he had followed up
his argument, and really shown that a repeal of the corn-
laws, and an extensive cultivation of poor soil would
effect ail this, he would have made his arguments com-
plete. He would have given an argument in favour of the
repeal of the corn-laws, which had never yet been urged.
—Cheers.)—But if the Hon. Gentleman had visited
Northamptonshire, the county which he (Mr. S.
O'Brien) had the honour to represent, where the la-
bourers received wages amounting to 13s. or 14s. a
week, he would find that the people were
not in the abject state he had represented.
If he would go and visit that part of the
county with which he was connected, he should be able
to show him well built cottages and a state of comfort
which would satisfy him that a repeal of the corn-laws
was not so much required. He should, in the course of
their ramble together, be able to show him cold clay
lands of such a nature as even to affect the
intellects of those engaged in their cultivation—(Hear)
and, he might add, that the Noble Lord the Member for
the City of London, in his address, looked to the
Member for Northamptonshire when he talked of the
advantages which the landed proprietors of that
county would derive from a relaxation of the duties on
corn and other articles of commerce. The address laid
down three propositions for meeting the wants of the,
country at the present moment, the long and short of
which was, that British industry required no pro-
tection ; and in the latter part of his speech he said
that protection was neither wanted by the agriculturist
nor bythe manufacturer, and would leave their protection
to the energies of the country. It was not treating him
improperly if he (Mr. S. O'Brien) assumed that this
principle had been publicly enunciated. The Noble
Lord assumed that these propositions were true, because
all political economists were of the same opinion.
Notwithstanding the charge of their having old-
fashioned prejudices and clay intellects, he for one dis-
sented from those propositions, and he said, that even
if all political economists were agreed in this manner,
there would still be higher considerations on the settle •
meat of the question. Honourable Members on the
other side of the House were very apt to confound
the science of political economy with the
science oflegislation. His own notion of political economy
was, that it was a science which treated of the amassing
and distribution of wealth, and if the science of legis-
lation consisted of the amassing and distribution of
wealth,then ho should say that both political economy
and legislation were synoniwous terins.—(Hear, hear.)
He, -however, took a higher standing ; he said
that the distribution and accumulation of wealth
was only one element in the science of legis-
lation, but even if both the science of le-
gislation and political economy consisted only of the
accumulation and distribution of wealth, it was not
sufficient to prove the case of the Right Hon. Baronet.
—:Cheers.) The Noble Lord the Member for the
City of London had sneeringly declared that agricul-
tural protection societies were established solely for the
purpose of opposing the Anti-Corn-law League.
Now, he denied that these agricultural societies
had been recently formed, and so far from their object
being the overthrow of the Anti-Corn-law League, he
believed they were established for the promotion and
improvement of agriculture.—(Hear, hear.) Honour-
able Members were too much accustomed to throwing
out taunts in reference to these protection societies,
but on a future occasion he might find it convenient
to enter into their history, and he would
say now that there was nothing in them
he was ashamed of.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that
labour was the property of the poor man ;he did not
know whether it was right to call things by their wrong
names, but the Noble Lord the Member for Lancashire
called the agriculturist a manufacturer, and upon the
same principle labour was called the property of the
poor man, and this definition of one of the Right Hon,
Baronet's dogmas went forth to the world. But they
ought not to stop there. It would not do for them to
meet six months every year for the protection of their
own property-, and at the same time to tell the poor man
that labour was his property, but his property was not
to be protected. The poor man would not understand
such a system the poor man would say that they met
to protect their own property, and the conclusion
he would come to was, that the property of the
poor man must be left to take care of itself.
The question of protection was a very unfortunate one
to emanate from a legislation who some years ago
boasted of the extent to which they could avail them-
selves of the labour of children. That legislation now
found the labour of the poor a difficult thing to deal
with. They had resorted to the most discreditable
methods to protect property. Treatise upon treatise
had been written on the subject, and the decision.' they
came to at length was that they should let it
alone. He did not speak of the shop-
keeper, but of the man who had amassed
money, and who, the moment he found himself in pos-
session of it, found it his interest to be a convert to the
system of buying in the cheapest market and selling in
the dearest one. He would take the case of the duties
lately spoken of by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of the Government, because they would serve as an il-
lustration, and because they were fresher in the memo-
ries of the Members of that House. Supposing
.that he
had been in the cheapest market, he could furnish his
house with splendid French paper or silk

hanging, and could ride abroad in a foreign
carriage. :He could look out of the window
of his smart house, and drive abroad in his foreign car
riage, and he would see a number of labourers standing
idle. Me might ask them what they were, and the reply
would be, that they were, perhaps, E glish paper-stainers,
hardware-manufacturers from Birmingham, and coach-
makers. He might then say—" My good fellows, I
have done my best to make you idle, but not from any
selfish motive, for on the 27th of January, 1846, the
Government proposed the withdrawal of the pro-
tective duties, and that proposition was received
with cheers by all political economists, in order
that theirdoctrines might have fair play."—(Hear, hear.)
Would any man say that the feeling in the hearts of the
people would be one of reverence or attachment to our
institutions in such a case they had that profane°, for
the feeling would be decidedly against the Government.
When they took into consideration the number of
persons so employed, whose employment would be taken
away by the want of protection, they must consider
how much their ancestors had laboured to give them
that protection ; they would see that the way to benefit
the poor was to protect them against foreign competi-
tion, and against the madness of themselves. In this
House they were all rich men—(Great laughter)—at
least he assumed the fact, and such lion. Members as
were not, might laugh at the notion.—(Laeghter.) But
one thing was quite certain, and that was that they all had
had a breakfast that morning, and they all expected
to have a dinner that evening—(Laughter)—and they
might, rest assured that such is the position in which
they would be held by their poorer fellow-creatures ;
and, therefore, he was right when he asserted that they
in this House were rich, while the classes he al
luded to outside were poor. Well, now it
would go forth to-night to those classes, that. in this
House the question propounded was not corn against cot
ton, but the question of buying in the cheapest market
and selling in the dearest, and therefore he would ask
them why they taxed the poor ? He was net now argu-
ing against the poor-law, but he was contending against
this House attempting to propound a harsh and imprac-
ticable dogma, which would luok odious in the eyes of
the poor.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") lie had never
stood up in this House as the champion of exces-
sive duties, or to contend that no alteration should
be made in the corn-laws, but he was contend-
ing that the Government was enunciating a dogma
which the poor people could not understand. There was
another reason why he objected that this dogma should
be promulgated here, and that was that this assembly
was no longer the representatives of the poor ran, for
that had been done away with by the pa sing of the Reform
Bill. Adam Smith had made two exceptions where other
considerations might enter besides political economy.
But there were so many other exceptions in addition,
that it would be extremely unwise and unsound
to propound such a rule, and extremely dangerous to
acs upon it. He thought that one of those cases was
agriculture.—(hear, hear.) He would not then go into
the question of the corn-laws, as he had so frequently
expressed his opinions on them; but he considered, that
if there was a calling which, more than another, had
peculiar claims on protection—which contributed to the
health, longevity, and morals of the community—that
calling was agriculture.—(Loud cheers.) He protested
against any change being made under such a complex
state of things which existed in this country. lie must
say that he had been engaged in studying the state of the
question during the last four years in all its bearings,
and he could not find anything to materially alter the
opinions which he had formed on the subject. One
change, however, had come over his mind ; he
began by believing it a landlord question,
and he was of opinion that the effect of a
sudden repeal would be to throw large quantities of land
into the market, and consequently the price would be
greatly deteriorated.—(Hear, hear.) From all that he
had read and seen he could not but consider that this
question was a question of the small landed proprietors,
nut of the large landed proprietors; they are able to weather
the storm.—(Hear, hear.) It is a question of the small
landed proprietors, who, upon the faith of previous legis-
lation, have burdened their estates to nearly the full
valae for the sake of effecting improvemsnts on their
lands.—(Hear.) He believed the present was essentially
a farmers' question, and it was upon this ground that he
took his stand; and because he thus considered it a far-
mers' question he refused to consent to any changes which
would bring in their train nothing but distress and
misery.—(Hear, hear.) Now suppose the case of a
tenant farmer, and he wouli give an illustration, because
he considered that would have more weight than mere
abstract arguments. Suppose, then, in this case, the
prices to be rather low, arising from a large importation
of grain or some other cause. The tenant farmer comes
to tt.e landlord, he says to him, "I hope you will allow
some abatement in the rent. I have expended large
sums in draining and fencing, my family have held
under you for several generations, we have weathered
together many hard, difficult, and stormy seasons. I have
worn your colours, and I should be sorry to leave
the spot where I and my family have lived
so lung to seek a home elsewhere."—(Hear, hear.)
The landlord says to him, " My good fellow I am sorry
for yop, you have invested your money in drains and
fences, you invested that money on the faith of my as-
surances, and I have made those assurances, and invested
my capital on the faith of the legislature.—(Hear, hear.)
We are now told that we are to buy in the cheapest, and
Ilell in the dearest rnarkets.—(hear, hear.) There is a
gentleman, a manufacturer in this district, ready
to invest his capital in your fern,. I must
nos/ look to my tie family arrangements ;I am
sorry I can do nothing foryou.—(Hear, bear.) You look
back at the feudal times, those times we are now told
are old and exploded notions—(Hear, hear)—and as for
colours, God bless you, my good fellow, there is no
such thing as true blue now."—(Prolonged cheering.)
The tenant farmer then goes away from his land, the
manufacturer with his immense capit.il conies in, and by
the application of that capital, the land, which before
yielded but three quarters thee, yields six quarters, and
the great increase of the produce will then be used as a
set off to the injurious effects of a large importation of
foreign corn.—(Hear, hear.) A few months ago a
farmer mentioned a circumstance to him, the relation

of which would help to explain this questior
better than anything he could say. A farmer
went to his landlord and stated that he had
just had a large fortune left him ; his landlord
advised him to leave the cold, clayey ground
which he then held, and invest his capital
in some good ground, and make his fortune.
He said " the graves of four generations—of my father,
grandfather, great grandfather, and great great grand-
father are in this neighbourhood ; and I have worked
that farm, and I will stick to it."—(llear, hear.)
There were hundreds of thousands of men like that man,
who had not fortunes in their pockets, but who had the
same hearts in their bosoms—whom now they were driv-
ing forth by their legislation with broken hearts, and
whose bitterest recollection—whose bitterest association,
would be with the name of Cobden.—(Hear, hear.)
We, continued the Honourable Gentleman, will
not aid you, Sir, in your triumph over these poor men.
We do not envy a triumph in which we do not parti-
cipate, and though we are small iu number, and may
be uninfluential in debate, we will raise our voices
against the injustice that is proposed. You are now
preparing a triumph against a body of men who are
petitioning that table in vain ; and who see ruin staring
them in the face ; who have been moderate in prosperity
and patient in adversity ; whose virtue and whose mis-
fortune is, that they are poor, and, as I said before,
whose fatal fault was, having trusted you.—(Cheers.)
You are prepared to triumph over them, for I will give
it no more milder term—) ou are prepared to triumph
over them by a strange coalition with men who, true to
their principles—(Loud cheers)—can neither welcome
you as friends, nor respect you as opponents—(Voci-
ferous cheering)—of whom, I may say, in conclusion,
that the best and most patriotic amongst them will least
rejoice in the ruin and the downfal of a great constitu-
tional party, and will most deplore the loss of public con-
fidence in public men.—(The Hon. Gentleman sat down
amidst the most boisterous cheering from his own party.)
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD rose to address the
House, but was some time inaudible on account of Mem-
bers leaving. He said that the whole argument of the
Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down was
that the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of
the Government was a traitor. The Honourable
Gentleman professed great regard for the working
classes, for whom he professed protection was required.
He (Mr. Sharman Crawford) eould not understand the
Hon. Member asking the House to continue protection
while they refused cheap food to the working classes.
Cheap food was the foundation of national prosperity and
protectionw as injurious,bccause it enhanced the price of the
necessaries of life. He thought the arguments heretofore
used in the debate tended to confuse the question,
T
theh
The
main points of w hich were exceedinglysimple.
agricultural body demanded that the nation should pur-
chase its food at their market price, but would
they consent to proffhr to the working classes
wages equivalent to the prices they sought
to obtain ? They had never yet done so.
they prepared to do so now? Yet this seemed an Weres-
sential element in the case. Could they engage that all
the working classes should have their wages made com-
mensurate to the price they wished to keep agricultural
produce at? By the old poor-law wages were raised in
proportion to the price of food, but the new poor-law
had done away with that. It was not so now. In the
election of 1841, two points were raised, in order
to return a majority to that House. One was the per-
petuation of protection to the agricultural interest, and
the other the restoration of the old poor-law; the latter
especially was much dwelt on as an electioneering cry
against the Whigs, who were charged with the odium of
that measure. Had the pledge then given been fulfilled?
No; they had kept up prices by the corn-laws, and yet had
done nothing to mitigate the evils of the new poor-law
He was more particularly anxious to address the House
on that occasion, on account of the question of Ireland
having been raised. It was raised by the Hon. Member
who spoke last, and many other lion. Members
who preceded him. He must acknowledge that
he disagreed with the great majority of Irish
landlords on this question, and so far from his thinking
that agricultural protection was a benefit to Ireland, it
had, in his opinion, proved a curse to that country.—
(Hear, hear.) It was used as an argument in favour of
the continuance of the corn-laws in England, that England
had been in a prosperous state ever since their exist-
ence ; but this argument could not, at all events, be
applied to Ireland, for ever since the corn-laws
had been extended to that unfortunate countryhear)
nothing but misery had prevailed there.—( 1:
lie thought that this measure was a matter 'He
cou-
He had had
cern to the whole of the Irish cornmuna, •
h It arise from
great hopes of the results
ha Cott
the Commission under the h
ev
foundamrl
of
Devon.tlatt
he was disappointed, for
mission had
I to the interests
of the landlords, and reference whatever to the
had no
condition of the tenantry of Ireland. It was evident
from the report of that Commission that the condition
of the tenantry was wretched in the extreme. Now, by
en inquiry into the relations between landlord and

tenant, he found that there was a decided advantage on
the side of the proprietor of the soil—a remarkable advan-
tage, for he gave a singular evidence of the relation between
landlord and tenant, and of the advantages which were
likely to arise to both in consequence of their ev. rat
positions. By that return it appeared that the
whole of the benefit derived from the soil of Irelund
was not , more than 14s. 2d. per acre, and that
the gross revenue of the country from that
source was not more than 6,000,000/. per annum,
whereas it was known that although the soil of Eng..
land was not more than that of Ireland, that at least
40,000,000/. per annum were realised. There was a
part of Ireland in which the protection of agriculture
was not considered to be of any benefit to these con-
, cerned in agriculture—he meant Ennisfail. Agriculture
and manufactures were then in a perfect union, and the
people were prosperous and happy—every class of society
was in the enjoyment of the comforts of life. For his
own part, he dreaded not the repeal of the .corn-laws ;
he dreaded not the lowering of the price of food. He
did not believe that the repeal of the corn-laws
would damage the interests of the agriculturists. In
fact, he was perfectly convinced that the lowering of the
price of food would increase the profits of the agricul-
turist, and that that increase would be followed by in-
creased employment; and the general prosperity of the
people of this kingdom would fidlow in such a
manner as could not be created by the main-
tenance of protection to agriculture. He wished to
see Ireland cease to be a land in which agriculture
was protected, and he wished to see Ireland depending
on her agricultural produce as well as her manufactures.
It was said that the corn laws opened a market for her
agricultural produce in England and other countries ;
Out of what benefit were such markets to the agricul-
turists of Ireland ?—(Hear, hear.) He admitted that
vast qu entities of food were sent from Ireland to Eng-
land, the purchase of which cost the English millions
of money. But did Ireland benefit by such sales ?
The exports of the provisions from Ireland
instead of having conduced to her wealth, had led to her
wretchedness and misery. Those exports were not the
exports of her superfluities; they were the exports of her
means of existence ; they were the exports cf those
things which the people should have to support ex-
istence and a comfortable life ; they were taken from her
comforts, and they did not therefore benefit the people
of Ireland. The poor in that country were at the pre-
sent moment suffering under privations which no man
could at all concave, and that fact, he submitted,
was a proof of the justice and correctness of
his position. It was found that the number of acres in
England were not sufficient for the relief of her inhabit
tants, and yet from Ireland, the acres of which were pro-
portionately far less, they annually exported most im-
mense quantities of provisions. They were therefore
exporting the life and blood and substance of the
people of Ireland. The injury done to the people
of Ireland by this means was incalculable. Such
a system produced the most barbarous murders
and assassinations in various parts of Ireland. They
fell in to 'those horrid crimes because they were without
employment, and deprived of the means of existence.
Such were some of the effects of agricultural protection.
When they go to Ireland, what do they find? They
find the people, except where those murders of an
agrarian nature took place, obedient to the laws. They
find the landlords living among their tenantry in peace
and in security; and if the landlords of Ireland gave up the
system of agricultural protection, and turned their
thoughts and energies on the development of the country,
those crimes which he alluded to would be heard of no
more. Nothing would promote the happiness and com-
fort of the people so much as cheapcorn, and, therefore, he
was most anxious to see the tax on that necessary
article of human food totally abolished. There was an-
oth-r great fault committed by the rulers of Ireland, in
cot doing something to enable the people to
get a better description of food. They are
now compelled to subsist on the potato, which is the
one of the lowest articles amongst all descriptions of
vegetable diet. But if they once made corn cheap by
removing all restrictions on that article, the people
would be enabled to procure it, and thus secure
for themselves a proper description of food, for
they could then command the corn market.
The potato was an article of food liable, from various
causes, to periodical injury, and he was therefore anx-
ious that a substitute should be provided for it by

the abolition of the corn-laws. If the landlords of Ire-
land, by a repeal of the corn-laws, were forced to adopt
other means for increasing their incomes than that which
land afforded, it would be better both for themselves and
for their tenantry.—(llear.) They could also, by culti-
vating and improving their land, increase to a consider-
able extent their present incomes.—(Hear.) In the
greater part of Ireland land at present is not more than
half cultivated, and :le was certain, if the tenants
were induced to improve the farms, the produce
might be double that which it at present is.
He (Mr. Sharman Crawford) would not refer to par-
ticular cases, but would address himself to the general
condition of the people of Ireland. There was no
period or season of the 3 ear at which a great por-
tion of the poorer class of the people were so
reduced as not to be able to procure food. He
did not moan to say that they were actually starved to
death ; but there the insufficiency of fo d, and the bad-
ness of its quality was such, as to produce the most
alarming consequences. Kooning such to be the case
:I,lv,ngst a large body of the poorer classes,
he could not reconcile it to his conscience,
indeed he would hold himself aecountalule for the results.,
if he did not protest against any mode of raising the
price of food.—(Hear, hear.) He considered it the
bounden duty of every- landed proprietor ro use his
best exertions to Frocure cheap food for the peo-
ple, and to counteract the many grievous calamities
that were consequent on a seaway of food—the least
amongst which was not typhus lever. Wi:h regard to
the scarcity of food, he should say, that that very day he

had rteeiced a communicatieri from districts Kith
which he was connected, informing him that the
potatoes—the staple food of the pour—were en-
tiroly dustroyed, and that the people were obliged
to have recourse to oatmeal. Therefore, seeing all that,
he could not be indiffirrent to the great benefit that was
certain to be derived from the measure then introduced
by the Government ; and he should, therefore, feel it his
duty to give his most cordial support to the Government
proposition.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BAILLIE (whose opening observations were
wholly inaudible in the gallery) was understood to say,
that the Noble Lord the Member,for the City of London,
in his address to the House last night, seemed to
. _

assume and to take it for granted that free trade
must prove moat beneficial under any circumstances,
If that was the opinion of the Noble Lord, how would
he reconcile it with the fact that foreign nations knew
well enough the value of protection to their national pro-
ductions? Foreign nations were well aware of the great
advantages which England possessed for manufactures.
This country had large manufactures and every facility
fur production. We had rivers, and ships, and every
means of carrying out our trade at a cheap rate ; and
we also could produce articles of manufactures of a
very fine quality which would compete with them. It
was for that reason that foreign countries had erected
barriers in the shape of protection for their manu-
factures ; and if that was the case, how was it was pos-
sible for this country to have all those advantages from
free trade that they were led to expect? France bad
manufactures of her own, and if the manufactures of
this country were introduced into that country, we
should be competing with them to the injury of their
own trade. In India we had introduced our manufac.ttareau.
of cotton goods, and that did away withoftrer opwenoplbe of
tiful fabrics, to the great injury
since
the dominion
that country.—(Hear, hear.) Broerer
injury done by the
of England in India, there was in
had been shed or all the massacres which
blood which
introduction of our manufactures there than by all the
By doing away with their staple
had thrown out of employment
people, who suffered by starvation.
phra(didatacltii,a, plNayeee.
the result of our free trade-doctrine there,
in all our endeavours to
induce foreign i ations to adopt free trade,
ATthi:':diusshwaanavdsisn.gof tathilleed therefore,
shall we try the experiment upon our own people ?
They had only to refer to the occurrences of the
last few Sears in order to be convinced of
the intimate connexion which existed between their
agricultural and co:nmercial prosperity. They need
not look farther back than 1848. It was in the recollec-
tion of every one what was the state of the country in
that year. Their trade and commerce was stag-
nant ; their manufacturers in the deepest consternation ;
thousands of their operatives thrown out of employment;
the revenue fallen below the expenditure and threatening
the utmost commercial difficulties. Such was the state of
the country—to what was that state to be attributed? It
had succeeded several years of unexampled manufacturing
prosperity. He alluded to the period commencing in 1838.
Let them look however at the present state of things in
the country. All their,operatives were in full employment,
they were working on good and sufficient wages ;
they were happier and better: off than at any former
period in their history. To what was this to be attributed?
He did not wish to take away, and he was fully pre-
pared to do justice to the talent of the Right Hon. Baro-
net, but he was not prepared to give him the sole credit
of restoring the country. That altered state was to
be attributed to the three abundant harvests, commenc-
ing from the year 1841.—(Hear, hear.) How clearly
then, did not these facts demonstrate to us
how careful t e should be to preserve the causes
that produce this prosperity and success ?—(Hear.)
It was not, however, his intention on that occasion to
enter into a discussion as to whether there were
pecuniary or heavy burdens on the agricultural portionlie
of the community, because he thought he
able to show that the agriculturists laboured:upnuedtietriona
greater disadvantage on account of th
burdens on land. This disadvantage
course these discus-
with the foreigner than from the peheudlianerocta°bnedenhdeauvlyy
discus-
sions ; but there was
appreciated or considered in lis‘..
another, de principles could get
of the advocates of free
otre,
disadvantages which
oduvrantage which none
rid of. He meant the
country laboured
the inhabitants
rincklimthaetyae
.
utondetiriaton account of
f grain.
oh ue e titni f:Hsr, i :wild' i c hi)
not
0 tt ph reducedth
description of
finerbelieve that the farmers of
had any -ere less skilful or intelligent thin
this country w .
of
asooitiherto
those of other countries. He had heard it stated that
foreign countries were superior hi the arts of agricul-
ture, and lie believed there were many pelts of Germany
not inferior to our own. In Poland the wages
of those engaged in agricultural pursuits were as much
as the wages paid to those engaged in similar pursuits in
England. The soil was equally fertile, and the:
corn realised 10 to 20 per cent. more in the
markets of England than our own. He knew
that samples of wheat might be produced in Essex sad
in some of the southern counties of England equal to dne
wheat grown in Poland, but he spoke of what constituted
the whole produce of this country, which was of a vary
inferior quality, and varied with the seasons. This
inferiority arose from the great heat of ti e
countries to which he had alluded, and the natu; al

TIIE SUN, LON

consequence was, that a finer quality of grain
was produced, the husks were finer and yielded a •
greater quantity of flour. Thus the advantage to the
ioreigner, over the wheat of this country, was not less
than 201. per cent. Now, when he considered the diffe-
rsnee in the rate of wages, he confessed that it was
not without uneasiness that he contemplated the com-
petition which could not fail to come, if the
propositions of the Government were adopted. It seemed
natural to conclude that a portion, at least, of the wheat
lands of this country would be thrown out of cultivaton
on account of the impetus which would be given to the
cultivation of wheat un the continent.—(Hear.) The
question then arose—would it be a desirab,e competi-
tion, and one which they ought to encourage? It might
perhaps he admitted that it would be more advan-
tageous to the people of this country to turn a
certain portion of their wheat land into pasture, and to
purchase a great quantity of grain from foreign countries,
But this was not a question of political economy, it was a
question of national importance. It involved their de-
pendence on fereign countries.—(Cheers.) He repeated
that it remained to be seen whether they would depend on
foreign countries for a large propiartion of the food
required for their own people. He adm tted at
once, that a large supply came from Poland
and the south of Germany. Those countries
were enabled to give them foid as they required
it ; but would it be wise or prudent for the Ministers of
England to place themselves in the power of teose
countries, so that they might step their supplies by s
o pro
n-
hibiting the exportation of gra;
" Hear, hear.') They had had examples in the
present year from which they might draw an inferetice
as to the consequences of trusting a Polish harvest.
They had seen that the Russian Government had prolii-
biteil the exportation of the inferior ;rains, which consti-
toted the food of their own people, to this country ; and they
found that Belgium also had within a very short period
prohibited the exportation of wheat. There could be
no doubt that it the Government of this cuuntry
had found it necessary to open the ports,
neighbouring countries—France, for instance—would
have shut theirs, as a matter of protection to them-
selves, and this would very materially have compelled
this country to depend upon their own resources. lie
had endeavoured to show that free trade had the
dark as well as the bright side.—(Hear, hear.)
And he trusted they would take into consideration,
before coming to a decision on t his question, its magnitude
and importance, so that at once they would have all the
circumstances before them in deciding upon the question.
It would be necessary to take into consideration the
serious evil that would ensue if a Ling and protracted
struggle were maintained on this question, on which the
interests of the great mass of the people were opposed to
those of the nobility and gentry of the country. They
must also take into consideration the actual posi-
tion of the question, not only in the country,
but in that House. In the country they would find
the community divided into two classes, who differed
materially. One class resolved to have the repeal of all pro-
testive d uties, and the other class resolved to maintain those
duties in existence. What was the position ot' the question.
as it stood in that llouse ? All the great and leading
statesmen en both sides—men of every party—were of
opinion that some alteration in the existing law was ne-
cessary. Those who were anxious to maintain the sys-
tem of protection were avowedly unable to form an Ad-
ministration at all likely to have the confidence of the coun-
try. In this case they had no choice between two alterna-
tives—either to give support to the measure before
the House, or to throw out the Government which now
existed, and to make way for the Government of the
Honourable Gentlemen opposite.—(Hear, hear.) What
would they gain by making such a change ? nothing ;
and, therefore, he for one should give his support to the
motion before the House, as he believed that in so doing
he pursued the course better calculated ultimately to
promote the interests of the country. Many Members
opposed the measure either from a sense of duty or
from a sense of consistency, but resistance would ulti-
mately tend to bring still greater misery on the country,
without attaining the object they had in view.
Mr. LEFIIOY said he proposed addressing the House
less generally than the Hon. Member who had ju t sae
down, but he did not consider that this mea-ure would
have the effect of improving the condition of the poorer
classes, ur give satisfaction to the landed proprietors. A
number of Bills had been introduced by the Hon. Baronet,
by which a large sum of money could be borrowed, and
to carry on great public works, with a view to giving the
pe fplc extensive employment. But he did not think
they would have that effect. In the north of Ireland the
people had contrived to secure a large amount of employ-
ment by the manufactures carried on there, though he
could not say as much for other parts of that country.
He would now state his reasons, as an Irish represen-
tative, why it was that he would give his vote in oppo-
sition to the Government measure ; and in doing so he
would say, that upon so important a measure as this
no Irish county Member should hesitate to state his
reasons, lest it might go forth that they had been led
to their decisions by party influences. He had seen the
announcement of the resignation of several Honourable
Members of that House, and in particular one Noble
Lord, who made this sacrifice rather than
vote for a measure which they could net
conscientiously believe would benefit the country.
There were so many things, however, in favour of the
measure proposed to be brought forward by the Right
lion. Baronet, that he shrunk from taking any steps in
opposition. He felt it was a measure of such vital im-
portance, that the question which was forced home to
the breast of every one must be, was it for the good of
the country?.—(Hear, hear.) It was not his inclination,
nor (lid he feel it to be his duty, to go into the subject in
ail its bearings. Others were better qualified to do so than
he was. He could not, however, refrain from referring to
the injurious effects which must accrue to Ireland
if it were carried into effect. They had no menu-
factures there. Would that measure introduce manu-
factures into that country ? lie thought that
no man would be found who would venture to make
such an assertion.—(Elear.) He would not trouble the
House with the details of the imports into that country,but
it the consequence of the measure should be a diminution
of them, it could not but have a most injurious effect.
If it should turn a great quantity of the land which was
at present cultivated, and was abundantly productive,
into pasture land, would not such a result be ruinous?
Would not that state of Ireland, which was so elo-
spiently referred to in that House by the Hon. Member
for Rochdale—a state of trouble, and sorrow, and deeti-
tution—he the inevitable accompaniment?—(Hear.) Ile
thought it a most hazardous experiment.—(Hear, hear.)
He had never followed a Minister, or given
a vote upon any question which he could
not reconcile with his sonscience. (Hear, hear.)
'1 hese were questions far above his comprehension, and
others, who, like himself, had not either the talent or
opportunities of investigating measures calculated to pro-
mote the good of the country. It became him, therefore,
after having watched the conduct of those public men
who had brought forward salutary measures for the
benefit of his country to follow that leader who had thus
acted. Upon this ground he ehould not give his support
to the measures brought forward by the Reda
Honourable Baronet ; and in so doing, whatever
opinions might be formed as to the " fool's paradise,"
or anything else, he trusted that he would net be con-
sidered us one of those foolish birds who would be snared
by the whistle of the betrayer. lithe Ilight lion. liaronet
informed him that he had changed his (pinions he con-
sidered it right that he should he informed of the reasons
of that change of opinion.—(Hear, hear.) Under pre-
sent circumitance he earnestly hoped that the advice
of the Ili !Ist Hon. B itonet would be found perfectly aefe.
Ile trusted that the measures introduced by the
Right Honourable flannel eould be productive of be.
nests to his country. He could only say respecting
the measure, that, should it pass, he would he willing to
submit to it, but he would net by a vete take upon hinise!l
the responsibility of its enactment. And if it was proved
in course of tine that it was dangerous and destructive
in its operation, he would feel satisfied of having entered
his pretest against it, deeply impressed with the convie-
tion that the 1n4.9, tire must prove fatal to the bust inter-
ests of the country.—(llear.)
Lord CLEMENTS said that the Ileneurahle Mem-
ber who had ju,t set down complained that the measure
would prove injurious to the landlords of Ireland.
lie (Lord Clements) had no objection to meet
the cnallenge thrown out by that Hon. Gentleman,
respecting the m itter under the consideration toe
In doing s 0 he did not prefese tea
be more of a fermer's friend than thus- on
the opposite side of the House. During the last
six years he had done his best to improve the ugrieul-
tare of the county which he represented, aid he con-
fessed he had no leers of the measure under the con-
sideration of the House.—(llear, hear, and cheers.)
When he heard the arguments of his lion. Friend the
\he iern}Le,r fir Northanipton (Mr. Standard O'Brien)
much startled at them. In pro-
fessingSpinrwrs e mita sympathy for the count(
to paper-stainers, whom lie represented,
as likely and
o be ruined li
attention to e might have turned his
claws of Ireland If the condition of the labouring
enough to excite his he looked at them he would see
mmisseration without going else-
where; yet these ha,lei',
tern, and yet to ruin theeeitri' living
under a protective sys-
taat
errther would be impossible.
lie considered these s were well worthy of
‘(.lllolterest of the House.
the consideration of see landed
not what the feelings
He knew
pteoploef
Ire
arid the Lords might ~ but
Commons
of
he was certain, that unless they intended to
promote the general advantage of the
land, they had better let this matter atone. Yet he
ought to say that he was of opinion that nothing was
likely to advance the condition of the population which
do not go to the root of the evil. lie was aware
that the me.isure which he was intending- to advocate
would not be favourably received by
rithe public. 111 e
knew there was not only a deprivation of
necessaries of life, but that there
onl was
in a tone
tal
destitution, which existed not y
house, but throughout the length and breadth of. thy
e
land. lie believed that this repert el deficienc
ti
was not over-state]. Be the report that hal he
made by Lord Devon and time cAntuissioners under h
a commission which had his most hearty con-
currence there was an evident case wade
out for the consideration of the G overn men r.
It appeared by this repert of John Duke, Fe q
that the effects of this Commission had net been at all iu
proportion to the anticipation of its advisers. There were
so me facts which rendered its report nugatory. It ap-
peared by thet report that there had been no returns
respecting the state of the people within 12 miles of our
district. He was aware that he was one of the parties
who had been instrument al in effecting a change in the
commercial position of the
restrictioneou ntry, but he felt that
that ought to be no his
tie proceedingrna tl then
on this question. The Honourablen
proceeded to read some extracts irons Lord Devon's
report taken at Boyle. The medical practitioner of
that
union said, respecting the system of dividing land, “tthaat
t
it was a common thing fer a man who had from two
to five acres to subdivide it, and that in consequence
there were very few large farmers in that part of

the country, and that they are now fifty per
cent. worse than they were twenty years ago."
Nothing, said he, can equal their wretched-
ness. On being asked what was the cause of their
wretchedness, he said that commodities were so reduced
in price, that they were not enabled to pay their rents
in consequence. They lived in such a state that it could
hardly be believed. They had no bedsteads; they lay generally
on a small quantity of straw, with no coveting over them.
Here a Member made an observation which we understood to
be.---Did he (Lord Clements) believe those statements? To
which the Noble Lord replied, that he could confirm every
single statement that was made. He saw a mother with her
four children lying on a floor with nothing but a thin rug to
cover them. He had witnessed scenes of wretchedness and dis-
tress which required the strongest nerves to be enabled to endure.
The Noble Lord continued to read from the report before him,
—" Many of the people would be disposed to emigrate if means
were given them, the married as well as the unmarried." He
then proceeded—Now that was a lamentable state of things:
and he should say that he felt perfectly satisfied of the truth of
every statement made in the report. Since be came to know
the country, there scarcely passed a summer that great distress
did not prevail. In the month of May last an extensive failure
was expected • and but for the county Leitrim, the adjoining
counties would have been in a state of the most awful distress.
So constant had these failures become, that additional ground
had to be broken in the last year ; and it was difficult to ascer-
tain what quantity of ground was brought intocultivation. The
Commission appointed by her Majesty to inquire into the state
of the potato crop, he was happy to state, had one good object,
namely, that it forewarned the people, and showed them that
they had only to depend on themselves, and not on neigh-
bouring counties for assistance. In many instances those who
could afford to do so laid in large stocks of oatmeal ; but
how many thousands of the poorer classes were there
who could not afford to provide themselves with that article.—
( Hear, hear. ) These were awful considerations ; and he
might then inquire what was the good of protection to agricul-
ture ?—(llear, hear. ) Had it been of the slightest service
to the farmers, or had it provided food for the people ?—( Hear. )
Had it prevented the agricultural labourer from standing idle
in the markets, as had been before asked by an Honourable
Member, the Member for Northamptonshire ?—( Hear, hear.)
To give the House a more concise idea of the state of the peo-
ple of Ireland, he would read the opinions of the trustees of a
lease fund in one part of Ireland. The Noble Lord then read
several documents to the effect, that there were several thou-
sands living in the most wretched hovels without the means of
procuring food for themselves or their families. There were
no less than 23,125 acres in the occupation of persons who
could not pay any rent. He had been led to make these in-
quiries, and he now begged to refer them to the consideration
of the Right Hon. Baronet. His convictions en the subject
were very strong, and, as far as they were concerned, nothing
could be more fair or more just than the measure proposed by
the Right Hon. Baronet. In the inquiry which had been in-
stituted by Lord Devon as to the condition of the poor in Ire-
land, a plan had been recommended which he (Lord Cle-
ments) thought could be partially adopted with advantage. It
provided that certain establishments should be made by her
Majesty's Government, for which the county should become
responsible. lie should certainly, in that case, make no ob-
jection, provided that the whole charge was annually brought
before Parliament, and not be charged, as it at present was,
on the Conselidat: d Fund. He would further earnestly pray
that, if any representations should be made from the magis.•
tracy requestine an increase in the police force, the necessary
increase should he instantly made. He had watched with
great anxiety the ',regress of the Bill, and he must say that,
in most instances, the principal requirements were provided
for. fie now wished to call the attention of the House to the
administration of affairs in the courts of assizes. If her Ma-
jesty's Government had investigated the matter, they could not
but perceive that it was absolutely necessary for the security
of life and property that the courts of assizes should be placed
on a firmer basis. He would propose that efficient Crown
officers should be appointed, who, from their abilities and
standing in their profession, would be able to perform their
duties in a proper manner, Many a criminal has escaped
punishment in consequence of the ignorance or weakness of the
Crown counsel. This was a shocking state of things. He
(Lord Clements) knew personally of one instance wherein the
Crown council was unable to reply to a question of the
judge, as to the particular Act under which a certain
indictment was framed, and the prisoner, in consequence
escaped. He looked upon the Crown counsel as holding his
office for the general protection of society, and if he were unable
to perform his duties properly, society was in a measure unpro-
tected. It was impossible for one Crown counsel to attend in
a satisfactory manner to the business of an entire circuit. One
officer was not sufficient, and he trusted the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet would take into consideration the alteration he had sug-
gested. He would beg, at the same time, while on this sub-
ject, to call the attention of the Right lion. Baronet, if it was
in his power, as he was sure it was in his inclination, to contri-
bute some plan of relief of the agricultural population
from the local taxation under which they laboured.
From a return which he held in his hand it appeared that the
taxation was most unequally distributed, and in many instances
it fell directly upon the poorer classes. In the agricultural
districts taxation was very severely felt, especially in a time of
famine and distress. Ile (Lord Clements) was particularly
anxious to press en the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet
the charges which had been brought against the Irish poor, as
to their antipathy to the poor-houses. He was perfectly ready
to admit that much strong feeling existed on this subject. The
poor-houses were not conducted in a proper manner ; much
reform was needed, and it would, perhaps, be advisable to
conduct their management in a different form. In
doing this, however, many difficulties would have to be
encountered and overcome. The funds for these alterations
existed in various sources in Ireland, which might easily be
made available. From a return of the Irish Reductive Loan
Fund to December, 1844, there appeared a revenue of 9,9001.,
which could be applied for the purposes at which he had
hinted. The Noble Lord then adduced various other sources
whence a sufficient revenue could be obtained, and went on to
observe that at a time similar to the present a sum of 300,000/.
had been subscribed from various parts of the world to relieve
the wants of the poor in Ireland. He would entreat the
Right Honourable Baronet to see to the proper ap-
plication of the funds which he (Lord Clements) had
shewn might be made available. There were numerous socie-
ties in Ireland, which he believed, if the house were to appoint
a committee to inquire into, could be rendered of great benefit
to the country. He would not detain the House any longer
than to observe that he should vote for the measure which the
Right Hon. Baronet had brought forward. (Some confusion
and much laughter occurred in the House at the conclusion of
Lord Clements' speech, in consequence of several lies .Members
essaying to speak before the Noble Lord had suite finished.)
The Marquis of GRANBY believed that the Right lion.
Baronet had been actuated by a feeling of the most candid nature
in introdacing the present measure. He would, however, say
at the same time, that if the Right Honourable Gentleman
had entertained his opinions of 1841, he would have proposed
this measure to the House with all the energy and talent he
possessed, and not with the authority of a petitioner. As far
as was known of the feelings of the people of the country, those
feelings were in favour of the proposed measure. He had some
difficulty in dealing with the matter, because the arguments
are so various in their different bearings and application.
The argument which appeared to prevail the strongest
in the country was, that the labourer, in case of
a repeal of the corn-laws, would be supplied with
cheaper bread. If it was true that the labourer, in case of
the repeal of the law were enabled to buy his bread cheaper,
there was some shadow of reason in supposing that the corn-
laws were unnecessary. But that was not the question. The
question was, supposing that the corn-laws are repealed, would
the labourer be able to eat more bread than he does under
the present laws.—( Hear.) They had been told that an ex-
perience of three years fully justified the alterations which had
been proposed to the House. He would admit that three
year's experience might be sufficient to test the eligibility of
remitting protection, with one or two exceptions, on general
articles of import, but a great question like that of the corn-
laws, involving the consideration of so many arid so important
interests ought not to be tested by an experience of so limited
a period as a few years. The arguments of the Anti-Corn-
law League were as though they should say, " We want to
put a shilling into every man's pocket, by taking two shillings
out of the pocket of every farmer."—( Hear, hear ) Supposing
the agriculturists of this country to be driven out of the market
—was it to be supposed that foreigners would allow prices to
continue low in this country? It was absurd to suppose that
our foreign trade would be extended by the repeal of the corn-
laws. But even supposing that such an effect would
be produced by such a cause, let them consider that
the home consumption of our manufacturers amounted
to 150,000,0001. a year, while the exports were only
50,0n0,000/., and would it then be wise to injure the larger
interest to benefit the smaller ? It was on these grounds a
he should feel it his duty to oppose the measure of the Govern-
ment, and to support that system which had produced the
greatness, the wealth, and the independence of this country.
He would beg of those lion. Gentlemen around him, who in-
tended to support the Government, to pause before they
plunged into the vortex of revolution. It might be said that
protection was doomed, but his answer was that protection
was just. —( Hear, hear. ) Hr believed that posterity would
thank those who had struggled in the cause of protection.
Mr. GREGORY would declare at once that it was his in-
tention to give his support to the measure. Three years ago
a Right lion. Gentleman had declared that the principles of
free trade were the principles of eommoii sense. He confessed
hat he was struck with these words.—(Laughter.) The more
he had reflected the more he believed that those words
were the word. of truth. On these grounds he had supported
his lion. Friend the Member for Gateshead last year, on his
motion for the introduction of Australian corn. He however
confessed that he did not think that a repeal of the corn-laws
was so near. He had thought that it would have been better
to impose a small duty on corn for revenue purposes, and a
proposition of that sort would have his support. The present
measure, however, had only come a little earlier than he might
have anticipated, but that was no reason for his refusing it his
support. He believed that agriculture had flourishd not
through protection, but in spite of protection. It had been
said that if this Bill were to pass, from that moment they
would become dependent upon foreigners. He believed this to
be a fallacious argument. Were they not in all times of scarcity
indebted te the foreigner for supplies ? It was absurd to say
that this measure was a concession to agitation. The Right
lion. Baronet might have had a large majority in favor of pro-
tection if he had appealed to the country ; and on the other
hand the present measure could not he carried but by the as-
sistance of the Right Hon. Gentleman. How then could this
be considered a concession to agitation ? It had been said by
the Hon. Member for Inverness that the effect of this measure
would be to throw land out of cultivation ; but he confessed
past experience had not proved this, for on looking to the re•
turns, he found that when the remunerating price of wheat
was fixed at the lowest figure, the consumption of
the country had greatly increased. In 1815 the
remunerating price was fixed at 80s. per querter ; in 1827,
5555.; and in 1842, 565.; and the average for the three years
ending 1846 had been 525. Now what had been the sales of
twheat in the country markets during these periods? In 1839,
I_ll,
.e47,,50a1,4e
60s in the cou.ntrydmarkel.s,were 3,174,680 quarters ; in
i‘B4 , they were 4,900,234 ; and in the year 1845, they were
price,average a .theresc'onansumy
out of cultivation.—g petti,owmihtodomogrreeatthaanredduocutbioinedinththues
running the argument_ that as corn became cheaper land fell
regard
Hear, hear.)
Ireland, ear.)
few words with
would bring injury upon' themt whileerewthisehegdrenaotwesttoalsipaYr'ea-
lanbded interest that this measure
appre-
hensions prevailed amongst 1
in his opinion, their ap-
prehensions were entirely,
wani'%lll;outltiueauntlation. The commer-
cial prosperity of Ireland,
Ireland were identical ; in fact,
there
eg.riisctuealtural prosperity of
pulsation in both interest;. When hadtheretiely the same
a brisk
demand for manufactures they had equally brisk
demand for agricultural produce; and were he an Irish
t 1 e would prefer
fresh inlets for the
peasant commerce and
fresh markets for the industry of the country to all the pro-
' tection which the utmost stretch of a monopolising mind could
suggest.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Now he had taken the
greatest pains to ascertain the true bearing of this question,
arid he found that the greatest apprehension prevailed amongst
those who traded its oats, live cattle, salt pork, butter, bacon and
•h were the staple exports of Ire:and. Now, with
mutton, w ' price was fixed at 9s. 6d. per
II ) oats, the remunerativeregarihe foreigner could un-
barrel of 14 stone, and he denied that t r,
dersell them at this price.—( Hear, t of this
hear.) n suppor_
ou
opinion he n • I i quote the price of oats at the pr inc
ic, ipal
ambur places
Danz Hg,
of foreign export, namely, St. Petersburgh,
and Elsinore. No,, in Hamburgh the price of oats varied
from I Is. to 16s. per quarter, and the freight of the same
article was from 2s. 6d. to ss. In Elsinore the price was from
12s. to 155., and freight from 3s. 6d. to 51. In Danzic the
price was 12g., and the freight was 3s. 6d. to

'
4s. and at St. Peteraburgh the price was 12a. 3d.,
and the freight 4s. aWith these prices he could
not see what chance the foreigner had of underselling the home
producer. But let them see what bad been the amount of
imports since the present tariff had come into operation. Take
the period from the 29th of April, 1842, to the 4th of January,
1345, and it would be found that 518,620 quarters of foreign
and colonial oats were imported into this country at a duty of
ls. 6d. per quarter, while, in the same time, Ireland sent
5,322,637 quarters.—( Hear, hear.) With these figures and
these calculations, derived from men who bad endeavoured to
collect th est information on the subject, and whose motives
for doing so could not for a single moment be cal in ques-
tion. before them, how could the House hesitate in the course
they ought to adopt. The same results were shown by the re-
turns relating to the other articles he had enumerated ; and he,
for one, intreated the landed interest of Ireland to dismiss from
their minds the foolish apprehension that the measure of the
Government would prove destructive to their interests.
The Hon. Gentleman, after some further remarks, which were
wholly inaudible in the reporters' gallery, sat down amidst
the cheers of the greater part of the lion. Members on the
I Ministerial benches. _ ..

Nearly a dozen Hon. Members on the Ministerial side rose
simultaneously to address the House at the conclusion of Mr.
Gregory's speech, but there being loud cries for " Brooke,"
Lord BROOKE accordingly rose, and said that he fully
anticipated that the honest expressions of a man of unbiassed
opinions, and the representative of a large constituency would
have their due weight with the House—( Hear, hear)—and
with those feelings it was that he rose, not to enter into any
lengthened detail upon this most difficult question, but merely
to glance at the general features of it, to state in fact the
reasons which had induced him to give a vote on this occasion.
He deeply regretted the course which had been taken by
many of the Right Hon. Members of the Government on this
question.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the House
that nothing would have given him greater satis-
faction than to have been able to tender his
most hearty support to the present measure of the Right lion.
Baronet—( Hear, hear)—but the difference which had taken
place in the views of the Right lion. Baronet had induced him
to withhold his support on the present occasion.—( Hear, hear.)
lie ( Lord Brooke) felt convinced that that change was cha-
racterised by straightforwardness—( Hear, hear)—but yet it
had been of such a nature as not to satisfy him of its cor-
rectness.—( Hear. hear.) Although he was willing to give
every credit to the Right Hon. Baronet, and to those who
supported him, he did feel and think that many of his sup-
porters could not lay claim to that straightforwardness of ac-
tion which the Right Hon. Baronet had adopted —(Cheers
from the Ministerial side of the House.) The Right lion.
Baronet for several years past had been changing his prilici-
ples, but he had taken care to reap from his own party, and
from that House the fruits of those changes.—(Loud
cheers.) Those who had followed him in that varying
course. had followed him suddenly ; he might almost say
miraculously—(Loud laughter and cheers)—and the House
might be almost at a loss to conceive how the Right Hon. Baronet
had induced so many Hon. Members so suddenly to change
their opinions, so as to chime with his own. Had they not
heard the speech last night of the Noble Lord the Member for
Liverpool ?—( Cheers and laughter.) The reasons of their sud-
den change, as stated by that Noble Lord, were because, it they
did not approve of the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet,
they would lose the benefit of his high talent and of his
great genius in conducting the Government of this country.—
( Hear.) But he (Lord Brooke) felt that if a man was con-
vinced that a measure, which might be brought before the
House was injurious or hurtful to the country, no personal or
other consideration ought to induce that man to vote for such a
measure contrary to the pledges which he had given to his con-
stituents.—(Cheers.) The only reason that he could discover
why Hon. Members on that (the Ministerial) side of the
House followed the Right Hon. Baronet, was because they
were afraid of a dissolution of Parliament. Now they all
knew that when a man arrived at a great age he lost
his faculties (Great laughter)—his memory failed him
—(
Continued langhter)—and they had at the present momeut
a fine example of memory failing men.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) They found Hon. Members in this Parliament
forgetting the pledges which they have given in their youth
and manhood, and sinking in the decrepitude of old age.—
( Laughter.) In that state they were called upon by the
Right Hon. Baronet to make their will.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) They were called upon to sign away their property
and their possessions.—( Hear, hear.) They were called upon
to sign away their rights and privileges to foreigners and
aliens. He would not say that the course of the Right Hen.
Baronet would be so tamely consented to by a new Parliament.
—(Hear.) He felt that a Parliament returned fresh from the
country would not be so easily led by the Prime Minister of
the Crown.-(Hear, hear.) If famine had been overhanging
this countryere might then have been better reason for the
introduction of the present measure, but such was not the case.
If it had been so, he would most willingly have given the Right
lion. Baronet, his cordial support.—( Hear, hear.) But he
could not see any such danger as a famine befalling this
country. The apprehended evil arising from the failure in the
potato crop would be but casual, and it was also an evil which
might have been remedied by the temporary opening of the
ports.—( Hear, hear.) The House would find that great
reductions had been recently made in the duties on
different articles included in the tariff, and the conse-
quence was a great increase in the importation of
those articles. Now, when corn was admitted free of
duty into this country, he felt convinced that native industry
would be materially injured unless our exports were equal to,
if not greater, than the imports from abroad. There had
been another subject brought before the House in the discus-
sion of this question, and that was the subject of the cultiva-
tion of the land. The lion. Member who seconded the Ad-
dress said, that there was no limitation to the resonrces of this
country. lie (Lord Brooke) was aware that there were great
portions of the land of this country which were not culti-
vated and left utterly unimproved ; but he could not believe
that that want of cultivation was so extensive as stated by the
Hon. Member. He could not properly understand the Right
lion. Gentleman, the Secretary for War, when he stated that
there was no country which could successfully compete
with this country. From the north of Europe,
across France and Spain, and the whole of the
other countries on all sides of Europe, if this measure were
passed, we should be most successfully competed with.—(Hear,
hear.) This country would then be in a most degrading post.
tion ; we should be left to the generosity of foreigners, and that
he conceived would be a situation which no Englishman could
wish to see this country placed in.—(Cheers.) The Right
Hon. Baronet had said that this measure was one, not of justice,
but of policy, and a matter which might be settled by compen-
sation. The only mention which he could find of remunera-
tion in the letter of the Noble Lord the Member fur London to
the citizens of London, was the adjustment which would follow
the removal of agricultural protection. What that remunei a-
tion was to be, he ( Lord Brooke) could not see. As a Mem-
ber who was prepared to vote in favour of protection to agricul-
ture, he could not but deprecate the course of agitation which
had seen pursued by tt-e Members of the Anti-Corn-law League.
lie felt that their aims and objects were far different from those
who were members of the association for the protection of
British industry—( Hear.) The object of the Anti-Corn-
law Leaguers was to pull down and destroy.—(Cheers. )
Whilst that of the protectionists was to conserve. If any one
looked to the conduct of the League they would find that
their measures were not in accordance with honesty and strict
justice. He would not adduce particular cases, but if it were
necessary, he was prepared to support his assertion. The way
in which the Anti-Corn-law League had sought to extend the
elective franchise was most unjustifiable.—( Loud cheers.) The
agents of the League objected to an honest man's vote on the
registration, and sinless he came to defend his vote it was
struck off the registry.—(Hear.) If a man, therefore,:deter-
mined on defending his vote against the attempts of the League,
he was subjected to much expense, for which the revising bar-
rister was not empowered to allow him compensation.—
( Hear, hear.) He would therefore say, that the condnct
of the Anti-Corn-law League was such as no honest man
should sanction.—( Hear, hear.) There was one other ques-
tion to which he wished to allude before he sat down. The
Noble Lord the Member for the City of London, in his recent
letter to his constituents, had stated that the system of agri-
cultural protection had produced much mortality. A pam-
phlet had, however, been put into his (Lord Brooke's) hands
the previous day, which showed that the contrary was the
fact. It was there distinctly proved that the system of high
prices in corn tended to decrease the amount of mortality.—
( Hear, hear.) The compiler of that pamphlet had no returns,
but he took the averages; he commenced with the year 1780,
and carried down his calculations to 1830, and he divided that
period into ten portion.. In the first period of ten years,
when the price of corn was high, the amount of mor-
tality was 152 less than that of a corresponding period
when the price of corn was low ; in the next ten years it was
375; and in the third period 1,678; and down to 1809, the de-
crease in mortality in favour of high prices of corn, was 2,834.
lie had made these statements because he wished to show that
he was about to give his vote on the question conscientiously.
As the representative of a large constituency, he could not g.ve
a silent vote, and he would resume his seat in the belief and
hope that he hail honestly done his duty.—( Cheers. )
Lord WORSLEY could assure the Noble Lord, who last
spoke, that he was not aware that he was a new Member, or
he would instantly have given up. He (Lord Worsley ) was
anxious to address the House upon the subject now under con-
sideration. It was a question that had frequently
been brought before their notice, but it had never
assumed such a shape as it had done at the present time.
What was the actual state of the case? It was now brought
forward and supported by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of her Alajes'y s Government upon grounds of expediency.
He did not think they had brought forward the measure because
they thought it right in itself, but on account of the peculiar
situation of the country. The present Government had been
elected in 1841, as the farmer's friend, and at the period of that
general election there were no placards so prominent or nume-
rous as " Peel, the Farmer's Friend."—( Hear, hear.) lie
well remembered the arguments used by Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite when the subject of the total repeal of the corn-laws was
brought forward on a former occasion. It was then that they
stated that the landed proprietors were not to be frightened out
of their propriety by claims of a delusive character. The
Noble Lord proceeded to read some extracts from the speeches
of Sir R. Peel and Sir J. Graham on the subject of protec-
tion in the year 1841, the reading of which caused consider-
..ble laughter and cheering from both sides of the House. The
Noble Lord went on to state that many Hon Members had
gained their seats in that House by reason of their strenuous
opposition to any change in the corn-laws. What had been
the result? In 1842, the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed
some considerable modification in the then existing corn-laws,
and he now came down to the House under the impression
that he still had a right to go on in that direction, and there-
fore proposed the present measure, assuring the House
at the same time, that he was encouraged to do so by
the encouragement he had met with on former occasions.
When the question of a total repeal of the corn-laws was
brought forward, three years ago, this measure was success-
fully opposed by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. Upon that occa-
sion there was no compensation offered to the landed proprie-
tors for the total repeal of the corn-laws. The Right lion.
Baronet might perhaps say, in extenuation, that now he was
prepared with a measure for the relief of the burdens which
pressed upon agriculture. The Noble Lord did not think the
present measure was likely to produce a permanent settlement
of the question. Before the three years would have elapsed,
there would be a general election ; and he believed that the
farmers of England, who had been told that it was not dis-
creditable to tear a total repeal of the corn-laws, would
upon that occasion ask their Members to endeavour
to obtain for them a revision of the laws affec' ing the im-
portation of foreign corn. tie thought it unwise for the
Governmentof the country thus to keep alive in the landed
proprietors the hope that at the end of three years another
Parliament would be elected from which they would be able to
obtain justice. By such a system, he maintained, the question
f the corn-laws could not be settled. When such language as
from free trade, was i
that was used by the Right Hon. Gentleman so lately, and
whensame they heard the Prime Minister of the country say at the
out those very measures?—(Hear.)
, sing that-s
time that there was such danger to be apprehended
(nioietars.u)rprWisiansg
itt,huatudetrhesucßhitg.ilrr.t
Honourable htohuel d
Government take
should
d findto on
ncatithriys
considered that the Government
cumstances surpri •
side of the House supporters f
man, but this he might be allowed to the
agricultural interest who
deceived them ? Fie
would not say one hard word against'
thing for a person to be in the positiYont
Right Hon. Gentle-
oaft it was a serious
wsaaidat:h:ts
the Right Hon.
Barenet.—( Hear, hear.) He at one time the
corn-laws were permanently settled, and that so
the
year 1842 ; but he now came down to the House to tell
them it was necessary to do a great deal more. He (Lord
W.) could not think that because there was temporary distress
in the country, that the corn-laws ought to be repealed

, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARI 11, 1846.

(Hear, hear.) The Government may attempt to carry the nearer relation with the sound principles which regulate our
measure, but, as he said before, it would never be considered a commercial policy with respect to every other branch of in-
settlement of it by the farmers and landowners of this country. dustry. I will go still further, and say lam not satisfied with
(Hear, hear.) In 1842 no one expected—no party whatever the plan, and can be no party to it, of setting up a separate in-
expected, that they would propose an alteration again of those terest for the landlord and the farmer of this country ; I be-
laws in 1845. In the year 1842, the Right Honourable Baronet lieve that their prosperity will, in the main, be found to depend
the Secretary for the Home Department. advocated protection on the wealth, the comfort, and the ease
were of th
pre
in gciples reat body of
to the agriculturists of this country, but he (Lord Worsley) the people of this country." Those the
did not know hew he could reconcile his arguments then with I avowed upon that occasion.—( Hear, hear.) The House, I
the arguments which he was using now.—( Hear, hear.) think, will also remember the memorable motion of the Noble
He did not know of any one who had spoken out Lord opposite, on the condition of the working classes. I then
so strongly as the Member for Canterbury against any altera- stated to the House many facts which had come before me,
time of the corn• laws, and yet he had latterly taken office under which were, in my opinion, quite conclusive to prove that the
the Right Hon. Baronet. He said in 1842, that if the Govern- comfort and well-being of the working classes in this country
ment took the duty off corn, the property would be sacrificed of were mainly dependent upon abundance and cheapness, and
one-third of the population, and that such an act would be the their misery and distress were mainly occasioned by scarcity
scheme of a Minister of a party, aut could never be the mea- or by high prices.—( Hear, hear. ) 1 frankly avow, that if the
sure of the Minister of a nation.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) course of events had not been interrupted by circumstances which
It did appear to him, that if the Ministry did propose such a it was impossible to foresee, I should very gladly have adhered to
measure, there ought to be a dissolution in the first instance of the policy of madually and progressively diminishing the
the present Parliament, that the constituencies by which they protection to agriculture, but steadily keeping in view that
uwerepon returned
ordinary
to
might again declare their sentiments. desirable period when the protection might altogether be re-
Upon
occasions,e it was true, the Parliament was moved. But this brings me to the point of the utmost import-
elected for seven years. but when a sultjs et came under its con- ante to the consideration of this case, namely, the unforeseen
sideration of such importance, he (Lord Worsley) considered circumstances which did occur after the termination of the last
that the country ought to be appealed to. After this Parties session. First, with respect to the harvest of this country.
nient was elected an eight shilling duty was proposed, but on It was a harvest, as was truly stated by my Right Hor.. Friend
the present occasion it was a question with them of corn laws or the Secretary-at-War, of a peculiar character. In point of
nu corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) There could be no doubt what- quantity it was not a deficient hertest ; in point of quality, I
ever that there ought to be no alteration in the corn-laws before believe, in the experience of the oldest farmers, there never was
the constituencies of the country were appealed to. lie (Lord so great a variety ; and the effect of that has been to point out
Worsley) believed that if there was a dissolution now, some in and to establish the great imperfection of the averages under
their places in that House would not occupy them long.— the existing law. I will not press this further. It was dis-
( Hear, hear.) He did not know whether it was tinetly stated last night by my Right Hon. Friend, that in no
in the recollection of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite former years, I believe, has there been such a variety of quality
the Secretary for the Colonies (who for some reason unknown in the corn brought to market, the price varying from 40s. for
to him was not in his plaee—( A laugh)—in that House,) that the worst, I believe, up to 705., or 755., for the best. An al-
he stated in the year 1841, that the Parliament was pledged to teration was made in the law in 1842, ireregerd to the averages,
protection. Here the Noble Lord read the speech of the which had a very decisive effect in one respect; it altogether
Secretary for the Colonies, as reported in Hansard, on the sub- prevented fraud. By extending the period, and multiplying
jest of the corn-laws. The country fairly ask, as many have the towns, in respect to which the taking of the averages,
altered their opinions in this House, that an opportunity may fraud was prevented; hut as relates to the interest of
be afforded the constituencies to see whether they had net the consumer, this had a very adverse effect ; for fraud,
altered their opinions also.—(Cheers.) He ( Lord Wortley) whenever it had been exerted, was always in favour of the con-
had presented no fewer than fifty or sixty petitions against any sumer, and for the purpose of opening the port, ; and in my
alteration in the corn-laws, and also a petition praying that that real opinion, the general defect of the measure of 1842, though
House would place no confidence in her Majesty' 'Government. it was not as in'e. ded, was 'hat it rendered protection more
He was never more surprised than on seeing the names of in- stringent.—( Hear, hear. ) 'ibis was demonstrated, I must
dividua's to these petitions who refused him (Lord Worsley) say, by the operation of the scale regulating the duties in the
their support, because he refused to place confidence in her course of het autumn. Prices were rising ; the price of the
Majesty s Government.—( Hear, hear.) But it did seem to quartern loaf in this metropolis was 9%d., and approaching to
him (Lord Worsley) extraordinary that these changes of her the war price. When the quartern boat had so risen, the duty
Majesty's Government were never suspected by any of their indicated by the siding--scale was 14s. or 15s. per quarter.—
supporters. The Noble Lord the Member for the City of (Hear, hear )In point of fact the sliding-scale would neither
London (Russell) gave them warning in his answer to an slide nor move.—(Cheers.) And that was its comleinnation.
address from Plymouth, when he said, that "if the people --(Renewed cheers.) 1 do not wish to go into an historical
were united, no power could prevent them from repealing the statement respecting the corn-laws, or I might mention that
eornslaws."—(Hear, hear.) (Here the Noble Lord (NVorsley) from 1773 to 1792 the importation of corn was in point of fact
read the answer of Lord John Russell to the free in this country ; and it was a remarkable coincidence,
inhabitants of Plymouth, wherein he alludes to the corn-laws.) which Adam Smith points out when, without marking the
His Noble Friend gave that warning to many opposite, but cause, he mentions as a time when there was a great start in
they did not profit by it, but on the contrary they still sup- our manufacturing and commercial prosperity—exactly that
ported her Majesty's Government. He hoped the Right Hon. period, from 1773 to 1792, when the importation of corn
Baronet opposite would listen to the advice of some of his was free.—( Hear, hear.) I will also observe that
supporters, and take the sense of the country on his really change on this matter was not a change
measures.— (Hear, hear. )At present there was an oppor- of any fundamental principle. The corn-law had
tuuity for the Irish producer to send over their supplies of been changed and altered five or six times, arid yet its avowed
corn to this country, but if the present measure passed into a object had never been answered.—(Hear, hear.) I will now
law, they would not make so much of their land as now.—( Hear, return to the point from which 1 digressed. I was speaking of
hear.) It was his intention to support the alteration proposed the imperfect operation of the sliding-scale, and I may add,
by the Right Hon. Baronet, with respect to timber, for when that together with that, there did arise that which human fore-
-1 the landlord did not find the tenant timber, it was difficult for sight could not antimpate, the general failure of the potato crop
1 them to get good timber for trade. He (Lord Worsley) be- throughout the United Kingeom. This failure was by no
lieved it would be for the advantage of the country generally means limited to Ireland. The destruction of the potato crop
to have cheap timber, but he believed it would be against the began in the south of England, and I believe that it was more
interest of the country generally to have any alteration in the fatal in the southern part of England than in any part of Ire-
corn laws, and he would consequently oppose that part of the land. In many parts of the southern counties of England the
Sire
J. measure.—( Cheers. ) working population, though not altogether subsisting on potatoes,
M
Sir J. GRAHAM—sir, I have risen to address you at yet are in a great measure dependent, on that article for their
daily food. N% ith respect to Scotland we have the most accu-
this time chiefly in consequence of the able and powerful rate information ; and from the parochial returns, we know
speech of the lion. Member for Northamptonshire, who ad- positively, that in the south of Scotland one-third of the po-
dressed the House this evening, and in whose sentiments I
t,taco,iolvnec mrt.
,:lubotprgeeo
:the G m
wastfhrhue
destroyedtoghocvia.
eol
rin
p atihs,
eeet:ltp r
early
iv
asincs
edetih.deeedmonthtsatuihlffisereportt
caesoift
of November
hes
eae )me,,xb
Atetiehrenasl
test
rs
of
most cordially concur, that we ought riot to allow this discus-
heifa in
sion to degenerate into a mere fiscal question.—(Hear, hear.) November
s.
When a great party is on the point of being dissolved, the Lindley and Mayfair, by which it appeared that one-half of
qeestion, though in itself even insignificant, becomes a great the whole crop, though not greater than an average, had been
destroyed ; that one-eighth of that crop must be preserved
national one.—( Hear.) I think that no leader of a great
for seed ; and that consequently, not more than three-
party, such as that which has placed its confidence in my Right eighths of the whole crop remained at that time for the
lien. Friend, ears be justified for one moment is treating this consumption of the year in Ireland. I had been at that
great occasion in any other light except as one of immense time resident in the north of England, and had almost daily
national importance, and one that needs the frankest explana- communications, in writing, with my Right Hon. Friend at
the head of the Government; and it did appear to me that this
tien. This is a question that I hope also may not be treated
matter of coming scarcity, if not of famine, to be apprehended
altogether as a question of mere personality.—( Hear.) I can- in Ireland, did have an immediate and indissoluble connexion
not at all blame my Noble Friend who has just sat down for with this question of the corn-laws. The Noble Lord the
the reference he has made to my former declarations on this Member for Liverpool said last night that he could not see
subject. I admit that the past declarations of opinion made by that connexion ; and the Hon. Member for Northamptonshire,
following the same track, has also said that he did not see the
a Member of this House, who either leads, or aspires to lead a
intimate connexion between the two questions. Will the
party, and declarations made by a first Minister of the Crown, House, then, allow me to state what was the effect produced
if at variance with the eourse he now adopts, are subjects not upon my mind by this inevitably-coming scarcity in Ireland ?
unworthy of reference, and which call for explanation.— —( Hear.) I foresaw, and lam afraid rightly, that it would
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member fur Northamptonshire made be indispensably necessary to give to the suffering community
in Ireland aid from the public purse of this country to meet this
a direct appeal to the Government, and challenges us if we great calamity. Already some advance of the public money
had changed our opinions, manfully to own it. I an- has been asked for, arid lam afraid that further advances may
swer that challenge. I do frankly avow my change of still be necessary. Then this great question presents itself—
opinion, and by that avowal I dispose of all the speeches— Can in fairness any Minister of the Crown propose to the people
( Loud cheers from the Opposition, with counter-cheers from of Great Britain to take out of the taxes of Great Britain
the Protection benches, rendered inaudible the rest of the public money to aid in the sustenance of their fellow country-
sentence.) Upon the advice given by the Hon. Member for men in Ireland, while artificially, by laws so designed, the
Nottinghamshire, that if I were prepared to make that avowal price of the tood of the people of Great Britain is entranced?
it is my duty to do it; I now make the avowal, and I only ask —( Hear, hear.) Other persons may be bold enough to make
the House to exercise patience, and indulge me while I point such a proposition ; but I confess that no power on earth should
to the reasons of that change.—( Hear.) And that I may have induced me to be responsible for such a proposal.—
stand in the position of a man worthy of confidence, I will ( Hear, hear.) I told my Right Honourable Friend, that if
only glance at a few considerations explanatory of the course I such a course should be necessary, I strongly advised the
now pursue, instead of leaving the matter to rest on the indi- suspension of the existing law—( Hear, hear, from the
victual honour of the person who makes the avowal. If you Protectionist benches)—and that suspension I
find is now
look at the tests by which change of opinion must be tried, on generally approved of on this side of the House.—( Hear, bear.)
the part of a particular Member, you will find that the first The humane, the generous feelings of the landlords of England
which should be applied is this—does the change of opinion could not tolerate for a moment that distress, such as that likely
promote his personal interest? Perhaps, under the circum- to visit Ireland, should not be met.—(Hear, hear.) But to
stances, I may be allowed to glance at my personal position, give this aid to the Irish people. and at the same time to en-
All that I possess is as a landlord. I have nothing, to hope for hence the price of the food of the great community who contri-
except from the possession of landed property.—( Hear, hear.) bute towards the taxes of England, and who by their hard in-
I have inherited by that property a large tract of land of dustry are only able to pay those taxes, living in some instances
inferior soil ; and I congratulate myself that, by my position on potatoes, is a proposition which I never could have main-
as a landlord, if the proposed change be dangerour, it exposes tained as a Minister.—( Hear, hear.) But it has been in• is
me to as great risks as any landed proprietor in the country. mated that, under these circumstances, Hon. Members gene-
(respect to my personal position. Now rally on this side of the House would be glad to open the ports.
as a Hear.)Minister S o o
Crown, wn,allow me to ask you to apply a test Then arises the question—if you once suspend the present law,
mfutchhe
cw
equally conclusive. Does a change of opinion on the part of a what is the proposition which, at the termination of that aus-
',Minister of the Crown increase his strength or consolidate his pension, is to be made ? I have told you that I am satisfied,
power? Can there be a doubt, after the unhappy scene which that even when scarcity has arisen, when the price of the
we have witnessed during the two last evenings in the conduct of quartern loaf was high, and when high prices ought to have
the debate on this side of the House, that nay Right Hon. Friend, been counteracted by the self-operation of the scale, that scale
before the commencement of this session, being (as is allowed) dues not operate. I have told you that I thought the pre.
a leader of great talent, possessing the confidence of a great sent an unsatisfactory law, and according to my opinion, I
party, and of powerful and immense influence out of the House, could not, after its suspension, have supported its re-imposi-
has lost—has, as it is now said, almost dissolved that party, tion. I have always stated that my objections to a fixed
by the conduct which he, from a sense of public duty, has duty as a fiscal duty are insuperable, because I think that
pursued?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") I will try another test whenever the duty should be high, it would be impos.
upon that subject, and it shall be the last. Has the Minister, sible to exact it, and whenever the duty should be low, it
by a change of opinion, acted unfairly towards his political ad- failed for the purposes of protection, and the agricultural
versaries, and availed himself of that change of opinion to ex- interest would then incur all the obloquy of maintain
elude them from office ? I think it is not expedient, at this ing protection without deriving any advantages from it.
time, to touch further upon that subject ; but my Right Hon. We might have proposed some small remnant of the sliding-
Friend, with my entire concurrence, frankly tendered to her scale, and such a reduction of protection, which it would have
Majesty the office which he held as the head of the been unworthy of the agricultural interest to accept, and still
Administration. I certainly concurred in that resignation ; more unworthy of the Government to offer. Under these cir-
a d Ican truly
say, it was my earnest desire cumstances the abolition of the corn-laws was inevitable on its
that this measure
opposite,
shouldhave been brought forward by the suspension. It was, as it appeared to me, absolutely necessary
Noble Lord
in whose hands I think it would have to suspend the operation of the law ; and I foresaw the norms-
and
sincerely
been more properly placed.—(Hear hear.) I state that, tin- sity, if you suspended the law, of its abolition - and I again
frignedly and frankly, I thought, after all that has occurred, repeat that, in my humble view, our duty was,
Charged as wr-
it would have been better for the public, better ter public men, were with the responsibility of office, to meet this immediate
—(Loud cheer!.) lam stating my sincere opinion—I think necessity and to suspend the law. Nothing could have more
it would have been more for the public advantage, and for gratified me than to see the general arrangements of this clues.
th
e
our t oI
what has been proposed, es it has tion respecting the corn-law conducted by the Noble Lord op-
becomeposite.—( Hear, hear.) The question has been asked, " Have
duty public
omw e n,
to t
p.ropose it, had been brought for-
ward by the Noble Lord opposite ; and I may say, and la, you any reason since 1842 for changing your opinion?" I say
that since 1842 those who were charged with the administra-
sore the Noble Lord will bear testimony to the truth of
1 what lam saying, that both in writing and verbally I assured tion of affairs, and who had watched the various circumssancer
the Noble Lord that if he, as a Minister, brought forward a which have occurred, have had experience, not to be mistaken,
measure such as was indicated in his letter to his constituents leading to conclusive consequences. We had, first of all, the
me
of London, I, as a private Member of Parliament, would have painful and lamentable experience of 1842 itself, a year of the
given to that measure my frank and cordial support.—( Cheers.) greatest distress, aid, since it has pa-sed, I may say, of the
Now, having disposed of that which more personally related to utmost danger. What were the circumstances of 1842? Allow
myself, I may perhaps be permitted to refer to some of the me just to glance at them. We had in this metropolis, at mid-
pietas touched upon by the Hon. Member for Northampton- night, Chartist memings, assembled in Lincoln's Inn- fields.
shire ( Mr. S. O'Brien), and the Noble Lord (Lord Worsley ). Almost for nearly three weeks there were assembled in all the
The Noble Lord asks me—is this measure brought forward environs of this metropolis immense masses of people, greatly
merely because we think it expedient ? He appeared to doubt discontented, and acting in a spirit dangerous to the public
whether we thought it right. I say that we bring forward this peace. What was the condition of Lancashire, the seat of our
measure, riot because we think it expedient, but because we great staple manufacture, depending for its prosperity on unin-
think it right, and because we think it necessary.—( Hear, terrupted tranquillity and labour ? Such was the madness of
hear. ) Then the Noble Lord proceeded to state, that the the people on that occasion, that a great combination existed
time had arrived when this question must be settled. 1 per- to stop machinery, anti to put an end to the source of the
fectly agree with him, and I join in the alternative he put ; he labour, on which they depended for subsistence.—( Hear, hear. )
said it could only be settled in one of two ways, either by ab- What was the duty of the G rvernment under these circum-
solutely refusing to go into Committee upon this question, and stances? It was my painful duty to consult with the Horse
to entertain any further proposition in relation to agricultural Guards as to the precautions that were necessary for the
protection, or else that you must proceed as the Govern- maintenance of the public peace ; a large force was marched to
nient now advises you to proceed, to the total abolition Manchester, and the troops were actually called on to enforce
of protection to agriculture.—( Hear, hear.) An flon, public tranquillity. I can safely say that for three months
Member has put the question, as I think, shortly and fairly; the anxiety which I anti my colleagues experienced with re-
he said, the question to be decided is, is the abolition of pro- ference to the public peace was greater than we ever felt be-
tective ditties adverse to the poor? The Noble Lord the fore with reference to public concerns. Those were the days
Member for Stamford (the Marquis of Granby), who ad- of high prices and scarcity. lam certain from what I have
dressed the House also with great abiltty, put in terms equally since observed, that that turbulent disposition, that dangerous
distinct ; he said, the question is, will this alteration in the disposition, mainly arose from the want of adequate
corn-laws not only give cheap bread, but give a greater quail- sustenance, combined with low wages.—(Loud cheers.)
tity of cheap bread, to the working classes? I must say that What has been my experience for the last two years ?
this iv the issue which I think we have to try—this is the don't take credit to her Majesty's Government for the altered
great question we have to determine.—( Hear, hear.) The circumstances. Our measures may or may not nave conduced
Hon. Member for Northamptonshire addressed the House with to that great end ; but by the bounty of Providence we have
so much ability, that I really was surprised to hear him, even had abundant harvests ; with abundant harvests we have had
in a passing sentence, speak contemptuously of political eco.
can cheapness arid full e
ormpltoymlastent
twe; anve months I d what has occurred
adsh
? I
nomy ;be said that the object of political emsnomy, in his opi- safely say that fhe l have riot
pion, was the accumulation of wealth. I had always under- single interview with one of the Commissioners of Police with
stood that the great object of political economy was the distri- pct
to the mthatainfor the last tenance of the peace of thisl
mhav etropolis; I
bution of wealth—[Mr. S. O'Brien—" res
I said the distribution do not believe twel months e had one
of wealth."]—Will the Hon. Member allow me?—in my interview with the Horse Guards with respect to the move-
humble view the great object of political economy is not the meet of troops for the maintenance of the peace of this courts
accumulation, but the distribution of wealth, and the applica- try —( Hear, hear.) Perfect tranquillity, comparative happiness
at:ye
s witnessed.—(Loud 74. I(. T
The document I am about to read is
tion of capital to industry on principles which science and ex- prevailed; and that is a contrast between scarcity with discon-
perience shall have proved to be conducive to the happiness tent, and plenty with social comfort, more striking than any I
Loud cheers.) I will not trouble you
garuiedstwioenl,fatrheeno,fwthheichgrweaetehstavenutionbdeert.e—rm(ine is, is hear.).e) ever
with before
tenance of the existing corn-laws conducive to the interests of short, but still, as an analysis with reference to crime; it is
the greatest number of the community ? Will it insure them pregnant with instruction. I have taken the six counties which
an ample supply of food of the cheapest and best kind ? may be said to be the seat of our manufacturing industry ; I have
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord who has just sat down, taken the county of York, the county of Lancaster, the county
rather apologised for reading extracts from speeches, be- of Warwick, the counties of Gloucester, Cheshire, and Staf-
cause he thought they were not very palatable to the House ; fordshire, and have compared the commitments for trial in
I must say taat the extracts lie read appeared to me by no these counties in 1840, '4l, and '42, when the prices of wheat
means unpalatable.—( Laughter.) Will he allow me also, in per- were 665. 4d, 645. 6d., 575. 3d., with those which took place
feet fairness, to read just two extracts ? The Noble Lord im- in 1843, '44, and '45, when the price of wheat was about 50s.
puted to my Right Hon. Friend that not intentionally, but Now, observe, in Yorkshire the committals were, in 1840,
without intention, what had fallen from him oa former occa- 1,867 ; 1841, 1,89 i ; 1842, 2,598. The scarcity then ceased,
sinus had by no means prepared the House or the public for abundance with low prices begins, and we have committed for
the course which he now takes, and he referred particularly trial in 1843, 2,304; 1844, 1,691 ; 1845, 1,417.; shoxiug a
to a speech made by my Right Hon. Friend in 1839. Allow decrease of commitments in the last, as compared with the pre-
sue to read a short extract from that very speech. MY Right vious period of them years, of 14.9 per cent. In Lancashire
Hon. Friend, then a leader in Opposition, and a candidate for the commitments in those years were respectively 3,506, 3,9e7,
power, I consider this statement, that the condition of 4.497, 3,677, 2,893, 2,852, exhibiting a diminution of °I .4
the labourer has been rendered worse by the operation of the per cent. In Warwickshire the commitments were 1,001.
corn-law, a most important one ; .and I have no hesitation in 1,046, 1,003, 1,045, 894, 769, a decrease of 11.2 per cent. In
saying that, unless the existence of the corn-law can be shown Gloucestershire, including Bristol, the numbers were 1,045,
to be consistent, nit only with the prosperity of agriculture 1,236, 1,252, 1,186, 1,071, 920, showing a decrease of 9.8 per
and maintenance of the landlord's interest, but also with the cent. In Cheshire the commitments were 1,040, 943,
maintenance of the general interests of the country, and espe- 1,056, 1,018, 777, 688, a decrease of 19.1 eer cent.
veiny with the improvement of the condition of the labouring In Staffordshire the numbers were 913, 1,059, 1,485,
elms, the corn-law is practically at an end." That was the 1,175, 885, 717, a deer 'ass of 19.9 per cent.; exhibiting
declaration of my Right Hon. Friend, as early at the year an aggregate decrease of 17 per cent.—( Loud cheers. )
1839. —( Hear, hear.) It may seem presumptuous in me to Up
1842 on the whole of these six counties, comparing the years
refer, in addressing the House, to what has fallen from myself and 1845, there is a diminution on the aggregate of 18
in a former debate, but after what my' Noble Friend has Per cent. lam convinced with the Right Hon. Baronet, at the
stated, perhaps in fairness the House will not refuse me per- head of the Government, that it is a fallacy to contend that
mission to do so.—( Hear, hear. ) Oa the occasion when the wages fall with falling prices, and rise with rising prices.—
Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) moved for ( Hear, hear.) It was my Noble Friend the Member for Liver-
going into Committee on the corn-laws in June last, I said, pool, I think, who last night contended that it was true in the
"It is decidedly my opinion that the prosperity of agriculs agricultural districts that wages did rise with rising prices ;
Lure must always depend on the prosperity of the other but he admitted that the proportion was not always equal.
branches of the native industry of this country, and that the Now I beg you to observe, that to the labouring man the equal
public prosperity is on the whole best promoted by giving a proportion between the price of food and the rise of wages is
fair and uninterrupted current to the natural flow of national a matter of life and death. But it was necessary to observe
iffilustry. I will go further and say, that it is my opinion that the proportion should be concurrent as well as equal.
that, by safe, gradual, and cautious measures, it is expedient If the rise in wages should lag behind the rise of prices
to bring our laws, with reference to the trade in corn, into a life itself might be in danger. But I have the experience

of Sir John Walshatn, who long had the charge of the dis-
tricts of Norfolk and Suffolk, himself an extensive landed pro-
prietor in the county of Hereford, and who, in the West
Riding of Yorkshire, assisted the Poor-law Commissioners,
and he tells sne that he has never known that wages have
risen beyond from Bs. to 10s. and 11s. in certain counties,
and from 9s. to 13s. in other counties ; the utmost rise being
25 per cent. ; while he has seen at the same time the
price of corn rise from 455. to 905. It is unnecessary to say,
in reference to this point, that the rise of wages in those dis-
tricts is not at all commensurate with the rise in the article of
first necessity. - (Hear, hear.) But, as truly stated by my
Right Hon. Friend the Secretary-at-War, whatever may be
the case in the agricultural districts, the converse of the asser-
tion is true with respect to the manufacturing districts. Inva-
riably in the manufacturing districts you will find low prices
accompanied by high wages, and high prices by low wages. I
mentioned some circumstances which occurred in the month of
November with reference to Ireland ; but I have not the whole
of the case with respect to that time. From a report which
I have received from Mr. Sanders with respect to the West
Riding of Yorkshire, I find that at that time there was
not merely a rise in prices, but a strong apprehension of
still higher prices in several parts ot the West
Riding, particularly in Bradford, and that several works
were put on short time. In several of the cotton districts,
also, I learn the mills were about to be put on short time.
When, therefore, we looked to the circumstances of the
whole country in the months of November and December, we
had no option left, as the general guardians of the condition of
the great body of the community, but to pursue the course
which we have pursued. We have been told of the danger
of being dependent on foreign states for the supply of food ;
but when we consider that the population of Great Britain in
1815 was 18,000,000, and that at the present moment it
is 23,000,000, it seems to me that the time has arrived
when it may well become a question, not whether Great Bri-
tain can alone supply the amount of food necessary for the
population, but whether it will not be difficult, at a
moderate price, to secure faod for the whole of that ix -
pulation, even w.th the aid of foreign countries.—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear.") For myself, I have no apprehension
of any great fall of prices from the abolition of the corn-laws.
I think that both the hopes and fears of many people
on the subject are greatly (mq ger tted. Ido not be-
lieve that the abolition of protection, as matters now
stand, will materially lower the price of corn ; but I
consider that to the great body of consumers it will
be a security of inestimable value against high prices
when the harvest happens to be deficient in this country.
That is my view with regard to supply, With regard to the
commercial principle there can be no doubt whatever. The
Hon. I%lember for Northamptonshire described a state of
things where a certain individual has the walls of his House
covered with French paper-hangings, furnished with articles
of German hardware, and who rides in a Brussels carriage,
while workmen are ceowding the market with nob tdy to hire
them. How does the lion. Gentleman think those carriages
are to be obtained ? Whatever may be the form of the trans-
action by which they are obtained, that transaction of neces-
sity resolved itself into a bargain. Directly or indirectly there
must be an exchange of commodities, and you must in the long
run export some of your own home productions to pay for
what you have got from abroad. I am quite satisfied, if yon
extend the sphere of your commerce and do not attempt by
fits and Marts to force its expansion, that the i rosperity of all
classes will steadily advance with the increase of your
exports. The lion. Member for Northampton (Mr. S.
O'Brien) referred to the case of a farmer, whom he de-
scribed in the most pathetic terms, for the purpose of illus-
trating the consequences which the Hon. Gentleman pre-
sumes will flow Irons the measures of her Majesty's Mi-
nisters. But another picture was given last night by the
Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool (Lord Sandon). The
Hon. Gentleman represented his farmer• as petitioning his
landlord in vain for a reduction of rent. The Noble Lord
considered the condition of the farmer as peculiarly helpless
and exposed. He said this unhappy man had constantly had
held out to him the expectation of prices which lie had never
realised—prices which were made the basis of calculation,
when he agreed to pay a fixed rent ; then he comes to the
landlord with " bated breath" and most humble demeanour,
seeking an abatement of rent. The landlord grants somewhat
less than the farmer requires; an abatement of 10 per cent. is
found quite inadequate ; and at last the farmer is forced to take
refuge from all his difficulties in some lower occupation. Such
are the results, as described most accurately by the Noble
Lord himself, of this system of protection and of disappoint-
ment.—(Cheers.) The abundant crop, the diminished pro-
tection, and the fixed rent, have been a failure. —(" No, no,"
and " Hear, hear.") From the very spot where the Hon. Gen-
tleman stood when he addressed the House I heard such a
representation given of the condition of the farmer ; and T
am quite satisfied that the great bulk of that class are more
likely to be injured by the continuance of the existing law than
by its repeal. I have no apprehensions whatever that the
abolition of that law will render this country dependent upon
any foreign country. But, as a landlord—and on this point I
agree with the Noble Lord the Member for Lincolnshire—l
am certain that the settlement of this question is with reference
to the interests of landlords of paramount importance.—
(Cheers.) How can we have a settlement? with the feeling
of the great bulk of the community on the subject as at present,
there is but one settlement.—(Cheers. ) 'there are various
classes whose interests are involved in this question, and their
views have undergone a change on the principle of protection.
I will not dwell upon the meeting in Wiltshire. It may have
been suggested, but still that meeting is a remarkable fact. I
pass, however, from that, and apdeal to every gentleman in this
House who has had opportunities of observation, whether he
can contradict me when I assert that till lately the opinion
prevalent among operatives was, that low prices would in-
variably lead to low wages. I say they have changed their
opinions.—(Cheers.) The experience of the last three
years has not been thrown away upon them ; and
if that be so—if the masters arid the men are quite
of one mind ou this point, they will settle—and I may tell the
Hon. Member for Ktaaresborcugh so—they will easily and
amicably settle those questions which are likely to arise between
parties placed in such a relation to each other. I can very well
understand how those working men should overtax their in-
dustry, and even call on their wives and daughters to work,
that they may obtain subsistence. Necessity might drive them
to such resources. But if they can understand that by a change
of your law they may be able, without working so long them-
selves, without requiring their wives or daughters to work as
they de now, to live in greater comfort than they have ever
known, I have not the smallest doubt that arrangements will
be made between masters and men as to the period of labour,
and so every ground or pretext for legislative interference
will be taken away.—( Cheers.) It will, I should say, be one
of the most pleasant and happy days that ever occurred
is England, when, on account of an alteration in your law
rendering a shorter time necessary to procure wages ride •
quate to purchase the comforts of life—it will, I repeat,
be one of the happiest days of England when, on account ot
such an alteration, the masters and the men shall, without
legislative interference, come to an agreement on that subject.
—(Cheers.) lam glad to see that the Noble Lord the Mein-
her for the West Riding of Yorkshire ( Lord Morpeth)—with
whom I have often differed, but whose absence from this House
I never ceased to regret—expressed on the hustings sentiments
closely akin to those I have endeavoured to convey.—( Cheers. )
As to the agricultural interest—the interest with which I am
myself connected—l would say, let us have certainty with re-
ference to the value of our land. That certainty you
will have, as far as it can possibly be given, from a
change in the law. But in addition to certainty, you
will have peaceful enjoyment. You will have that peaceful
enjoyment without exciting the jealousy of your poorer
neighbour. And Ido not think that landlords will have to
snake any very great sacrifices ; but, entertaining the opi-
nions which I do, founded on the experience I now possess,
I say, were the sacrifice ten times greater, I for one, sooner
than that it should be said of myself, or any of the class to which
I belong, that our object was to secure for ourselves an increase
of rent, and not to promote the welfare and happiness of the
great body of the community—sooner than leave any room for
such a suspicion, I should say, speaking for my-elf, that would
I descend to a lower estate, and abrogate my inheritance.—
( Loud cheers.) It is said a great party has been dissolved. It
is said old political ties have been severed. It has been said
that social relations have been disturbed. It is anticipated,
and it is probable, that an Administration may be dissolved.—
(Cheers.) And, though I should regret the former part of
those consequences, on my conscience I believe this proposi-
tion will save a great and powerful nation from anarchy, misery,
and ruin. [The Right Hon. Gentleman resumed his seat
amidst great cheering.]
Lord CLIVE said he assured the House that he would not,
at that late hour of the night, attempt to trespass upon it,
attention but for a very short time ; but he would beg leave to
say, that from the circumstances that had occurred, it did ap-
pear to him, from the short time that had elapsed, it would
be impossible for the country to have had an oppor-
tunity of coming to a correct decision upon this question.
His Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary-at-War, stated his full
and sincere conviction in the speech which he delivered, and in
which he vindicated the course which he felt it his duty to
pursue. He had stated his conviction that, if it were shown
to the gentlemen of England interested in agricultural affairs
that by the abolition of the cores-laws they would he minister-
ing to the wants and necessities of their fellow-creatures, that
they would cheerfully accede to the adoption of such a mea-
sure• That was the ground on which he (the Noble Lord )
stood.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) If the
Government could show, as they stated they could, the
overwhelming. necessity ; if they were at present impressed
with the conviction that their new plan was not as futile and
leaseless as their former, they would give the agriculturists of
the country an opportunity of proving whether or nut the matter
was conceded to the wants and necessities of their fellow-sub-
jects, or whether it had been forced upon them by the dexte-
rity of two discordant cabinets.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
He was aware that by a dissolution on the present question
great excitement would be engendered, and great strug-
gles between classes would follow ; but these evils,
bad as they were, would pass away, and would be less enduring
than the anarchy and confusion which he believed would ensue
from the course which her Majesty's Ministers were at present
pursuing, and which, he believed, would be far more preenant
with evil.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) There-
fore, being apprehensive of such SR evil, though many sur-
rounded the question, he should feel it his stuty to vote for
the motion of the Hon. Member for Bristol.—(Cheers.) In
doing so he would have the satisfaction of experiencing,
when he should come before his constituents a different
reception from that with which the Right Honour-
able Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government taunted
the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Edinburgh, in
the year 1840, that he had been deservedly treated by his clas-
sical constituents.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Several Hon. Gentlemen rose, but were met with loud cries
of " Adjourn, adjourn," and " No, no," amid which
Sir R. PEEL rose, and was understood to say (the con-
fusion at the moment being very great) that he thought the
best course to be adopted was to adjourn the further considera-
tion of the question to Thursday.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COLQUHOUN agreed entirely with the Right Hon.
Baronet, but he should at the same time say that if any Hon.
Gentleman wished to address the House, he thought he should
be heard.— (Loud cries of " Adjourn.")
'the debate was then adjourned.
DRAINAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
The House went into Committee on the Drainage (Ireland)
Bill; and, after a few observations, clauses from 1 to 20 were
agreed to.
The other clauses of the Bill were then agreed to, and the
House having resumed, the Chairman reported progress, and
the report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow (Thursday).
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at five minutes to One o'clock till Twelve
o'clock this day.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.
( From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.)
TUESDAY, FEB. 10.
The following Petitions for Railways were reported, and the Bills
ortiered to be brought in 'Ay the undernamed Hon. Members :
Newcastle arid Berwick-3lr Ilinde, Mr. Bell, and— Mr HudsoPatten and
n.
Grand Junction (lluyton and Warrington Branch)
r
Viscount Swaim.
Loudon and South-Western (Farnham and Alton Branch)—Vr•
humble and Sir W. Heathcote.
Windsor, slough, and Staines Atmospheric—Mr. Neville and
win Col. Reid:
Mmehester and Birmingham—Lord F. Egerton, Mr. Ente,
Mr. M. l'it;ilps.
London aid Brighton (East Grinstead Branch)Mr. Kemble and
Mr. Elphinstone.
New,astle and Darlington Junction (Thirsk and Melton)—
Mr• 0'
Buncombe, Sir J. Lowther, and Mr. Hudson

The following Railway Bills were presented, read a first time, and
ordered to he read a second time :-
1-crk and North Midland (Whitby and Pickering Th
xt
to oen e..
enahling C a York and North Midland Railway Company tlet
the Line of tho Whitby and Pickering Railway to or near Caslw_
London and South-Westetn (Epsom Branch)—" to enable the 1,0!:.
do., South-Western Railway. Company to make a Branch Rail
way to Epsom, in the county of Surrey." •
Blackburn and Preston—" for making certain Branches front the.
Line of the Blackburn and Preston Railway, in the county of Lan
cost, r, and flt• amending tho Acts relating thereto." ~.. m the
Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston—" for making a Railway no ~{
Liverpool and Bury Railway to Preston, and to the Blackburntoal„
Preston and Nortlr Union Railways, with Branches therefrom, '1
called • The Liverpool, Onnskik, awl Peston with
North Kent—" for making ar Railwayr from Lonaidon to Doter,
Branches therefrom." from the
North Kent (City Extenston)—" for making a R•4llwaY file
North Kent Railway, in the borough of Southwark, to
city of London." goilwel
Ashburton, Newtm, and South Devon—" for making a - neva '
from Ashburton, In the county of Devon, to join the South •••'
Railway." !
n iiiikl
East Lincolnshire—" fbr making a Railway from Grea- -,„,,A11k0
by Louth and Alford, to Boston, in the county of Lincoln, P F'" 7
East Lincolnshire Railway.' " gall-
North Staffordshire (Churnet Valley Line)—" for making a nod,
way front the Manchester and Birmingham Railway at UcludwAyi,
to join the Birmingham and Derby Line of the Midlands 4- . .
with a Branch to Stoke-upOn-Trent." making ..
North Staffordshire (Piarecastle and Sandbach Line)—" l'lrr-„ealln
a Railway from Harecastie to join the Manchester and 131011.
Railway at or near the Sandbach Station thereon." _:?' - •„I' ~ gall,
Epsom and Dorking—" to enable the London and. CreJ,"l„, O.
way Cm Company to make a Railway, in extension of the Croy
"--
Epsom Railway, to Dorking, in the county of '- • Surrey." • U,'"- '•

NOTICES
for OF
theMOTIO formation NS.
or imPNVlli'el
Harbours and Wet Docks, ga,)le Canals and Worka 0, to 09
knd, on lands within high water mark, should be referrOu__ltteo
Board of Admiralty for their report thereon, before the Culla.'
on the Bill shall report to the H use (Thursday, Feb. 12).
Air. Hume—Copies of all Reports and Correspondence re'l;ao9s
the loss of the emigrant ship Catarante, in Bass' Straits, tIA
having 369 emigrants on board. Cups of the 1'0°,1.410!
officer at Liverpool, on the state of the Cataramie before OWL, osso.,
Liverpool in April, la4s:—Whether the captain and mate ha we
any examination, and how long the captain had been at sea
lay, Feb. 12).

NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL-P'- 1
q
TUEAY, FEB. 1 .
Eatrii Countlea and HarwSDich Railway-0. ret.lll*
Committee 00
postpone 1 fromiThursday 12 till Friday, Feb. 13. , , ••• , 130,1,3"
COMMITTEES ON PETITIONS FOR RAILWAY

[ADVERTISEMENT.]—ASTHNIA, SHORTNESS OF
BREATH, COUGHs, AND COLDS.—A TRULY SURYRISINO
Casz.—The Rev. David Williams, the resident Wesleyan
r at Beaumaris, in the island of Anglesea, states, in a
letter, dated the 14th of January, 1845, that " He recom-
mended Holloway's Pills to a poor man of the name of Hugh
Davies, who at the time was almost unable to walk for want of
breath, that he bad only taken them a few days when he
appeared quite anothcr man—his breath was easy and natural,
and he was increasing daily in strength." These wonderful
Pills will cure any cough, cold, or asthma. Sold at Professor
Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand; and by almost all
respectable vendors of medicine throughout the civilised world•
TAKE OF HERRINOS.—WE are happy to sta-e that the
greatest take of herrings within the memory of the oldest in-
habitants of this island, has occurred in our bay (Dugort)
during the last three weeks. We may safely state that up-
wards of 300,000 herrings were caught, and sold at fair
prices, averaging from Is. 3d. to 3s. per hundred. The fish
were of more than ordinary size.—A chill Herald.