The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-11 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY 'EVENING, FEBRUARY 11, 1848.

We believe that in Leeds and several other large towns,
the sectional boards, tenacious of life, oppose this
transfer of their present limited powers; but common
sense dictates that in Sheffield and all other incorporated
towns, the municipal council is the only body to whom
these important powers should be entrusted."
With regard to a particular part of Sheffield they say—
" The cesspool here is generally full, and the accu-
mulation of refuse so great that the house adjoining is
seldom occupied and scarcely tenantable. It is a re-
markable fact, that scarcely any of the children born in
this yard who were attempted to be brought up came
to maturity, for out of the four houses which it contains
(one generally empty) no less than thirty children have
died within the last forty years."
In regard to another place they say—
" Sixteen cases of fever and one of death have cccurred
in the adjoining houses within a few months., end four
cases of fever and two deaths in houses whose windows
are directly opposite to the point where drainage from
this lane escapes into Edward street. It is worthy of
remark that no such cases have occurred in places fur-
ther removed from this vicinity; the inference in this
instance is irresistible."
They add—
" We would suggest the adoption of the following
measures,— namely, better constructed dwellings both
as regards light and ventilatiou—(Hear, hear)—and a
liberal supply of water; the substitution of water-closets
for the present open privies, and as many as possible of
them in relation to the number of houses; also more
spacious and commodious yards well paved and drained,
with public washing houses and baths in populous die
tricts; and, above all, places fur proper and rational
recreation."—(lletir, hear.)
I have now carried you—l had almost said too rapidly
—but I feel that I have already trespassed upon your
patience too long—(Cheers) —but with reference to the
subject and the materials it might easily have been pur-
sued—l say, I have carried you in a rapid and most
imperfect survey to some of the towns and cities in this
country most distinguished fur these prominent charac-
teristics. I have mentioned the places which supply the
greater portion of the fuel which feeds our chimneys
and our furnaces, which forge the iron and the steel
which first shape and then waft along our countless
manufactures; which weave those fabrics, that, even on
the barks of the Volga, enable us to enter into competi-
tion with and outsell the finest fabrics of Asia, and to
clothe the inhabitants of the furthest tropics. Shall it
be said—or if it has been said hithert s, shall it be said
any longer—that these vast hives of industry, and the
sources of such unlimited supplies to the comforts of
civilization and the whole race of mankind—thaSethe
homes of the men who do and make these things should
be pre-eminent as the seats of filth and disease and de-
gradation in their worst shapes and forms ? (Hear,
hear)—that toils the most unsparing, that exertions the
most successful, should he beset with these enervating
and deadening influences ? that these herculean labours
which cannot now be said to be in the cradle shall not
be able to strangle the noisome reptiles which infest
them ?—(Hear, hear.) Even here to-night I ask for
the labour of Britain and ;ts agents all the advantages
and all the appliances which your fostering care and
your advancing knowledge can give them. I do not ask
you to stifle individual enterprise or local efforts with
Government interference, or with too much looking after.
I would leave these to their proper action and their legi-
timate exercise and development. But I do ask you to
make the imperial knowledge and science and skill of
our best heads and most adroit hands available for
pointing out to them the true and proper path, and for
taking care that they shall not go far astray from it. I
beg to move, Sir, fur leave to bring in a Bill for this pur-
pose.—(Cheers.)
Colonel SIBTHDRP said, he was inclined to look
with a considerable degree of jealousy on this measure
in consequence of the exemption of the metropolis from
its operation. He confessed he had cheered the Noble
Lord on the present occasion when he heard him intro-
duce the word metropolis ; but a friend hinted to him at
the moment that he had been too hasty in giving that
cheer ; and he found he had been so, for he was greatly
disappointed that the Noble Lord still persisted in with-
holding this great boon from the metropolis when he
gave it to other towns which he was sure did not so
much require it. The House had been told that a com-
mission had been appointed for some time to make a
report. Why, then, was their report not on the table ?
Ho would like to know, too, whet were the salaries of
the Commissioners? He was ready to support the Noble
Lord in carrying any measure of this kind which should
extend to every part of the United Kingdom; not only
so, but he was ready to contribute out of his own pocket
to assist the object ; but he called upon the Noble Lord
not to be content with a partial measure like the present.
Lord DUNCAN hop, d it was unnecessary to assure
the House that he would be the last person to rise fur the
purpose of placing any obstacle in the way of a sanitary
measure. He had listened with the deepest attention to
the speech of the Noble Lord in introducing the prevent
Bill, and he roso merely with the view of directing the
Noble Lord's attention to one omission which he had
hoped from the notice he (Lord Duncan) had placed that
night on the table would not have occurred. The Noble
Lord had remarked that there had been a great deal said
and little done with respect to sanitary measures. He
(Lord Duncan) fully contarred in that assertion. But
the Noble Lord had also been pleased to say that he had
observed great apathy respecting this measure out of
doors. Ile begged to tell the Noble Lord that there
was no apathy about sanitary measures out of doors,
and that the working classes were anxiously looking
for the interference of the Legislature on the subject.
The Noble Lord stated that the object of the measure was
to check obvious abuses. Now, he (Lord Duncan) hail
listened attentively to the Noble Lord's list of obvious
abuses. The Noble Lord had mentioned defective
sewerage and drainage, but he thought he spoke rather
tinder his breath when he came to the subject of ventila-
tion, although he remembered that not many years ago
ihe Noble Lord was quite eloquent on that subj, ct, as
well as on the window-tax. The Noble Lord, in a
speech made by him at Wakefield on the 20th of July,
1846, said—
" Amongst other matters, the lodgings of the bulk of
our population are far other than what we should wish to
see them—(Hear, hear)—and they are capable of almost
indefinite improvement by receiving increased facilities
for the acquisition of fresh air, of good water, of more
space, and of wholesome light."
He held in his hand tho report of the Committee of the
Health of Towns Association, which met to consider
Lord Lincoln's Sewerage and Drainage 13111. The Noble
Lord (Morpeth) was a member of
_that Committee, and
being at the time in opposition, looked at the Bill with
the eye of a jealous critic.
Lord MORPETH denied that he had ever attended
the Committee.
Lord DUNCAN said, the Committee had published
the report with the Noble Lori's name attached to it.
He retnetnbc,red that in " Gulliver's Travels" the people
of Laputa are re-presented as being so taken up w ith
sublunary matters that they required flappers to refresh
their memory. If the Noble Lord would allow him he
would act the part of his flapper—(A laugh)—and read
an extract from the report. [The Noble Viscount
then proceeded to read the extract, in which the Com-
mittee, after having discussed Lord Lincoln's Bill clause
by clause, said there was one subject so intimately con-
nected with sanitary improvement that no sanitary mea-
sure could be complete without it; but it was wholly
passed over by the Bill in question, and that was the
subject of the window-tax.] He perfectly agreed with
that report. The Noble Lord had said very little about
the ventilation of dwellings, and no wonder, for he
held in his hand an account of a case that had
recently occurred relating to the window-tax, and
which had been referred to that House.—(Hear,
hear.) It was the case of an unfortunate individuat—
e Mr. John Williams, a solicitor at Penryn, who having
heard a great deal about the benefit of good ventilation
had made a few apertures in his pantry. For those he
was charged a large SUM for window-tax. The magis-
trates relieved him from it, but the surveyor appealed,
and three Judges of the Queen's Bench decided that he
was liable to the tax, and fined him for having actually
ventilated his dwelling. He had no desire to bring on
a discussion about the window-tax, but he wished to
show the Noble Lord that there was a strong feeling out
!..of doors, that no sanitary measure could be complete
which did not embrace the subject of the window-tax.
(Hear, hear.) The people of this kingdom were look-
ing forward to a revision of taxation, and to an appor-
tionment of it to each man according to his money, and
he would tell the Noble Lord that neither this nor any
other sanitary measure he could introduce would be
popular in this country unless it grappled with a ques-
tion which might be difficult, but which was to be
Overcome.
Mr. HORSMAN said, the Noble Lord who had
moved for leave to introduce the Bill had manifested all
the zeal of a philanthropist with the ability of a states-
man. The measure was large and comprehensive, and
if followed up with 'vigour it could not fail of success.
He thought that the number of Commissioners pro-
posed by the Bill was the best that could have been
fixed upon, and as there was no such bad economy as
underpaying public servants he trusted that the Noble
Lord a ould not be deterred by any taunts of creating
patronage from making his commission efficient in that
respect; and that whoever the Commissioners might be
they would be adequately paid. The annual salary of
1,000/., which was suggested last year, was, in his opi-
mon, very much too little for the purpose. But it lie
adverted to one old grievance, he hoped that the Noble
Lord would not doubt that he fully appreciated all the
Noble Lord had done. He could not but regret the
omission of the question of interments in towns. But as
the Noble Lord said he should bring in some supplemental
Bills, he hoped that, difficult as the subject might be, it
would be provided for in those Bills. Six years ago, when
this question. was brought forward by the Right Hon.
Member for Lincoln, a Committee was appointed and
made a report; and in that report Dr. Chambers said he
believed that the fever which was called typhus, then
prevalent in the neighbourhood of Brook street, was oc-
casioned by the effluvia arising from the burial grounds.
Sir B. Brodie, Dr. Copeland, and other eminent medical
men expressed similar opinions. In the history of Par-
liament never was there such a body of evidence laid
upon the table—evidence of horrors such as he had never
perused before, and trusted he never should again. Since
then various Bills had been proposed, but nothing effec-
tual had been done. It was evident that there was some
difficulty too great for all Governments—and that it was
a most mysterious one. The Noble Lord said distinctly
last year that the clergy were quite willing to give up
their interest and render every assistance in their power.
Twenty years ago Mr. Milman, the rector of the parish
of St. Margaret's, Westminster, had declared that the
burial ground there could no longer be used without
danger to the health of the parish, and it was said there
would be no more burials there. But that very morning,
as he (Mr. Horsman) was going to the House, he saw a
grave opened in that churchyard. He hoped the Noble
Lord would believe that he was not censuring him for not
introducing the subject into this Bill; but that if the
Government felt that they were able to carry out an
effiQielit ilisurel the Noble Lord would then intro-

destroyed by their long illness. There were several
persons ill in two houses of the same terrace, and doubt-
less from the same cause."
Ile had abstained from making an allusion to the
lamentably long list of persons, whose duties as medical
Men, poor-law officers or those engaged in the service
of religion, had called them into localities in houses
where they received the seeds of maladies which hurried
them into the grave. One name, however, prominently
headed the list, that of Dr. Jordan Lynch. The other
individuals he would not site, but he might be permitted
to refer to an extract from a statement which had reached
him from Newcastle.
" A few short months ago Bishop Riddell, the Rev.
J. Standen, and Dr. Charlton, were in communication
with the authorities of Newcastle, to represent to them
the filthy, overcrowded, and infected condition of Sand-
gate and neighbouring localities. Tht project was then
entertained of removing fever patients to a more open
and elevated part of the town, where, in some temporary
or other building, their chance of recovery would be
greater, while the spread of the infection among the in
habitants would be kept in check. A similar suggestion
was male by Mr. Greenhow at the time of the cholera.
Dr. Bowring, in the paper which he read at Newcastle,
in 1838, at the meeting of the British Association, gave
a rem irleable illustration of the success of such a re-
moval in the case of the plague; but the proposal of
June last, in Newcastle, was not adopted; the sanitary
condition of the infected dieti ict has since undergone
little amendment, and the fever has extended its ravages.
The Rev. J. Standen is dead—the Right Rev. Dr. Rid-
dell is dead—martyrs to their self-denying devotion to
the cause of suffering humanity."
Ile knew it would be said that all those men died in their
vocation; but it ought to be recollected that there had
been no provision made by a munificent nation for the
widows and orphans left behind them by the class of
men to whom he referred.—(Hear, hear.) There was a
gentleman whose name would be familiar to many agri-
cultural-Members—Mr. Josiah Parkes he meant, who
was engaged in some extensive drainage operations, and
who thus expressed his sentiments upon this important
subject:—
"Fewson is here, his mother being dead; she was
buried yesterday. She was a nice, clean, hard-working,
respectable woman, and, what is very vexing about her
death is, that a nasty, filthy town drain, that runs under
their house, has been the cause of it. I tell Fewson he
should inform Lord Morpeth of it. Such deaths are
really awful, and of very common occurrence. Fewson
is my superintendent of drainage in the Phoenix Park.
Ile writes me that he fears his father will fall a sacrifice
also to the same disease. I find that within a space of 30
yards square there are 16 houses, wherein there have been
18 cases of fever, one of which, Mrs. Fewson, has died;
and several others have had a very narrow escape. One
medical gentleman, Mr. Boulton, a magistrate, who has
attended sixteen out of the eighteen of the above-
named fever eases, is of the same opinion as myself, that
those fever eases are broupht on by the bad state of the
drain, which is alongside of the thirty yards square ; in
fact, Fewson's house, I believe, is partly built upon it.
The drain is a public one, for the use of the east part of
the town ; it is arched over about twenty feet beyond
the thirty square yards, but from the yards there are
side drains and grates without cesspools, and also beyond
the thirty feet, it is an open drain, the stench from which
is at all times very offensive ; it is one of the worst
drains we have ; but the whol drainage of the town is
very bad, very shallow, with little fall, so that they
always contain large quantities of stagnant water and
filth, which I fear nothing can remove, except your
Health of Towns Bill."
He (Lord Alorpeth) had received a report from Mr.
Croskell, of which he would read an extract
"I made inquiries of one of the most practical men in
Beverley, who is well acquainted with the drainage of
the neighbourhood, and is now professionally employed
in the Barmston drainage, which runs from near
Beverley to the sea, and he, while quite admitting how
Open the locality to which your Lordship's attention
has been called is to complaint, yet assures me
that there are many worse instances in the
town, and that nothing but a general deepening of the
drainage can effectually remedy the evil under which the
town, in this respect, labours. This can only be accom•
plished through some such measure as your Lordship's
Health of Towns Bill, and until that has been passed,
and it is rendered compulsory on local authorities to deal
with these evils, I feel assured your Lordship would not
attain any satisfactory result by interference in an indi-
vidual case like that which has been pointed out to you at
Beverley."
And many other communications which he had received
on the subject corroborated the statements just read.
But were those cases to which Mr. Parkes, Mr. Croskell,
and others referred extreme ones ? Was the drain
described by the former gentleman as having caused the
death of one or more individuals an isolated one ? Did
Beverley stand alone in its unhealthiness ? This could
not, unfortunately, be asserted. In Suffolk the statis-
tical and sanitary reports gave results which, if not
similar, were very considerably worse. He would quote
from Mr. Glyde's report, which stated that the
" Average annual deaths in Suffolk (from a calcula-
tion of seven years), were 1 in 51; in Ipswich, more
than 1 in 42. If wo assume the population during this
period to have been 25,600, and the rate of mortality to
have been the same as Beverly and Yarmouth, the num-
ber would have been 512 instead of 603, showing a loss
of 728 lives in eight years. (This reference to Beverly
shows that it is regarded as a favourable instance of a
salubrious town.) Infantine mortality is considered ono
of the most important tests that can be applied to prove
the sanitary condition of a town. In Whitby, 26 per
eent.4 in Lancaster, 29; York, 31; Ipswich, 39 per cent.
die under 5 years of age. In Ipswich there are 103
streets and lanes,ls of which are without any drainage,
19 with surface drains on one side only, extending only
partly through them; and 42 streets and lanes not
paved. . Where there is no drainage dampness is
a general complaint. Paper wets on the wall, water
rises-in the cellar, and things get mouldy in the cup-
board. Several cases were 10 or 12 houses have privies
in common. The purity of the water which comes
to she town has been spoken of in high
terms, and the ability to afford abundance
generally.seknowledged. Yet the water from the pumps
is complained of for its impurity, and many of the
poorer classes have a great distance to fetch their water.
On the head of expense, there were in 1642, 82 deaths
above the average of Huddersfield and Beverley. The
general expenses of these at 41. 10s. each amounted to
3a9,137/. Deaths were from consumption 41 above the
average of England. Taking the duration of illness at
nine months, the expense of sickness at 10s. per week,
there is a loss froth excess of deaths from consumption
of 7281. If for every death there are 20 cases of sick-
ness, an excess of 82 deaths would give 2,296 cases of
unnecessary sickness. Take the average expense of
each case of sickness at lOs , there is a loss
from unnecessary sickness of 1,1481.; excess of funerals,
3691.; deaths from consumption, 7281.; unnecessary
sick, 1,1481.; total, 2,2451."
But he would not take the House through these de-
tails as regarded the United Kingdom—he would content
himself with laying one or two cases before them, in
order to exhibit the condition of the highest and most
Wealthy provincial and manufacturing towns. From the
town of Newcastle, Dr. Ileadlam wrote thus:—
" Ile was sorry to say that streets and suburbs were
rising with the same disadvantages. Streets were built
without sewers, the ground not even levelled, and the
soil in the centre saturated with filth.' Mr. Currie, of
the Working Men's Association, said, He and other
members of the committee were appalled by the scenes
they had witnessed. He had never conceived that a
-"City existed in so miserable a condition as Sandgate.
There was not a privy in its whole length or breadth.'
Mr. Gallee resided in Westgate. The annual value of
the property was 25,0001.; little more of the property
there valued at 5,000/. was reserved. Places quite as
bad as Sandgate.' Dr. White, The statements of Mr.
Carrieaad Mr. Galle were not overcharged. The misery
°andgate could not be conceived; it mst be seen to
be believed. In one single room in that loucality he had
"ea 13 cases of fever.' Mr. Greenhue—' They were
tooi. well aware of the prevalence of fever in Newcastle
for some time past ; during the whole of this time,while
the gaol was surrounded by fever, there had been even
less disease than usual within its walls. To what was
this to be attributed? Simply to the adoption within the
prison of those salutary regulationsawhieh it was their
object to extend to the whole community.' "
Dr. Lonsdale, in his report on Carlisle, says—
. " In the assurance tables of this country the mortality
In Carlisle within the last 20 years used to be estimated
at 1 in 54 of the inhabitants, being lower than the
present average of the 15 bealthiest counties in this king-
„?re • Now, in 1841 it was 1 in 39, ,being actually higher
If, that of the average of the 15 unhealthiest counties!
ta as is now admitted, the healthy and natural standard
ofa mortality in England and Wales is 2 per cent. per
;lame, or 1 in 50, it is evident that Carlisle, with its
ate of mortality 1 in 39, or more than 2i- per cent. per
annum,r. stands greatly in need of sanitary improvement."
?that, if the average mortality of England and
Wales2tieper weresnstt.,aksehnowatinagin 100, the ratio of Carlisle was
that it was more unhealthy than
.h average of places. The towns of Hull, Wolver-
hampton, Bradford, Hertford, Ware, and many other
Places whence returns had been received by pains-taking
persons, gave the same general results, and ho would
now "13' quote the report which had reached him from
Sheffield, drawn up by James Heywood, a chemist, and
W. Lee, a civil engineer, resident there:—
t 8 ` We wish we could find language sufficiently strong
,oimpress upon the council the absolute necessity for
"_intlediate action. The case is desperate, and supineness
Would be criminal. After the first few days' experience
In our recent inspection, we were able, with an awful
precision, net only to detect the unhealthy parts of the
town, but the portions of the streets, and the particular
houses in streets and in courts especially liable to febrile
and other disease. In hundreds of these we were able
at once to describe to the sufferers all the symptoms of
the disorders with which they were afflicted. The re-
sult of that inspection is a conviction, which nothing can
ever remove or weaken, that besides all the instances in
which persons ultimately recover from long sickness and
consequent distress, 1,000 at least aro destroyed every
Year in this town by
diseases which would have no ex-
istence under complete sanitary arrangements. To rea-
lize in the aggregate this unnecessary amount of mor-
tality, and to appreciate the concomitant evils of domestic
bereavement and pecuniary embarrassment, struggling,
Poverty and helpless pauperism following in its train,
must appal the mind of every member of the council,'
and lead to she most strenuous efforts in the application
of remedial measures."
They go on to say—
" That the water supply, cleansing, and paving are at
Present in the hands of three distinct bodief, under the
authority of as many distinct Acts of Parliament.--
ear, hear.) The sewerage, though much has been
done during the last few years, is illegitimate. All these
must be harmoniously worked together as parts of the
carneli
83.st"m; and we are firmly convinced that this can
only be done by placing them, and all other samiary
an
angernents, under the control of one public body.

able or convenient to the nasty turtle-eating Corporation.
—(Laughter.)—Why did not her Mejecty's Ministers
resist the soup influence?—(hear, hear.) Why should
that influence be allowed to prevail rgainet any measure
calculated to benefit the community ? Then, with re-
gard to the important question of intramural inter-
ments. The Noble Lord was perfectly aware of the
poisonous effluvia arising from the metropolitan grace
yards—he was equally well aware of its dangerous
effects, but ho could not encounter the opposi-
tion of the Church. The clergy had a vested in-
terest in the churchyards, and it was not con-
venient for Government to interfere. Did the Noble
Lord believe, would the House believe, that the mascu-
line mind of the people of England would be content
with a measure of this kind, a measure which did a little
and then shirked the remainder? The public would be
dissatisfied, and they had a right to be dissatisfied. The
people in the towns would, more particlarly, be dissatis-
fied with a measure which fastened on them a new bur-
den for sanitary improvements, while it did not relieve
them from the burden of the window-tax. He would
again ask the Noble Lord to reconsider the measure.
Let bis Lordship include the whole of the kingdom in
one Bill. Let him not be content wit h remedying the miner
grievances, but at once strike at the root of the mischief.
He would bring to the mind of the Noble Lord what was
now going on in the metropolis. The Noble Lord had
lately received a deputation from Islington, in the centre
of which densely populated district it was proposed to
erect a fever hospital. Did the Noble Lord propose to
take powers in the Bill to prevent the establishment
of such a nuisance? Who was one of the principal
promoters of this fever hospital? No less a personage
than Dr. Southwood Smith, one of the Health
of Towns' Commissioners.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord did not propose to take powers to prevent this
nuisance—he proposed nothing of the kind. The Noble
Lord had told the House that he was afraid the accu-
mulation of filth in the metropolis and large towns would
create typhus, and that the typhus might become v•
neral; but hero it was proposed to introduce the evil,
in its worst form, in the very heart of Islington. The
Noble Lord knew that the ground had been purchased,
and that the building of this fever hospital was about to
be commenced; yet, with that knowledge, the Yoble
Lord took no power in the Bill to prevent such an in
fliction. What an inefficient, miserable measure it must
be! No such a thing could by possibility happen in
Paris. There they had a public body always sitting,
receiving deputations anti collecting information on the
state of public health. Sub-committees were appointed
to superintend separate districts. Those sub-committees
reported to the committee of public health, and that
committee, in its turn, reported to the Minister. II any
erection was deemed injurious to public health, it was
at once prevented. What would be the feelings of the
people of Islington with regard to the measure of .the
Noble Lord? When they found that it offered no re-
medy to them, they would be disappointed and indig-
nant. He did entreat the Noble Lord to extend the
scope of the Bill, to rely upon the good sense and
proper feeling of the people. If he were just to them
they would be just to him, and give him the best sup-
port he could desire.—(Cheers.)
Mr. Alderman SIDNEY said he stood there in a two-
fold capacity. 'He was not only the representative of a
borough in this kingdom, but he also, as an alderman of
the city of London, was one of the Commissioners of
Sewers. The Hon. Gentleman had designated him and
his colleagues as the nasty turtle-eating Corporation.—
(Laughter.) There might be some difference of opinion
as to the meaning of the term "nasty," but there could be
no mistake as to the turtle-eating.—(Laughter.) He
would beg, however, to remind the House that the Cor-
portion of London was the first public body in the king-
dom that attempted to grapple with the great question
of drainage. Every main street, and almost nil the bye
lanes were thoroughly sewered.—(Hear, hear.) And it
was;bnt justice to the C:ommissieners to say that they were
alwaes ready to avail themselves of every known and
practical improvement. The city of London would
form no obstacle to the sanitary policy of the Govern-
ment. The Gallant Colonel who recently addressed the
House (Colonel Sibthorp) had placed Billingsgate and
St. Giles's in the same category. He (Alderman
Sidney) was the representative of the ward of Billings-
gate, and he lately attended a dinner to which about 30
of the inhabitants sat down. Twenty out of the
thirty informed him that they had each resided in
the ward for more than forty years. Judging from these
cases he should be inclined to say that Billingsgate was a
remarkably healthy district. As the representative of
the borough of Stafford he had been requested to give
his support to any great treasure of sanitary improve-
ment. He told his constituents that if Government
thought proper to allow the boroughs and cities to have
the patronage in their own hands, he should certainly
give such a measure his most hearty support.—(Laugh-
ter.) He heard from the Noble Lord that the Bill
would leave the main superintendence in the hands of
the rate-payers, and he should therefore give the mea-
sure his support, He thought intramural burials a
great evil. lie would beseech the Noble Lord to extend
the provisions of the Bill to the metropolis. He should
like to see the window tax repealed; and if the gaols
and markets were removed from the City the conveni-
ence of the public would be much increased.
Mr. WYLD said that the public had already had
a specimen of what legislative interference would
bo in the proceedings of the Metropolitan
Sewers Commission. The Commissioners, at their
first meeting, ordered that a block-plan of the
metropolis should be prepared, and they calcu-
lated that the survey and plan would cost 61,0001. It
would cost more than five times that sum. If the
system pursued in the metropolis were carried out in the
country the measure would be enormously expensive.—
(Hear, hear.) In his opinion there existed no necessity
for a block-plan, inasmuch as the 6 and 7 William IV.,
c. 96, provided that all towns should be surveyed for the
purpose of assessing the poor-rate, and all. the suburban
districts had been surveyed under the Tithe Commuta-
tion Bill, lie hoped some means would be taken to
establish a system of medical police—he considered that
a most important point.
Mr. MONSELL begged to ask the Noble Lord
whether it was intended to bring in a similar Bill for
Ireland.
Lord MORPETII said that as soon as the present
measure could be matured he hoped that the Secretary
for Ireland would be able ' to supply a similar measure
for Ireland.
Mr. MONSELL—WiII the measure for Ireland be in-
troduced during the present session ?
Lord MORPETH—I hope so.
In answer to Mr. WILLIAMS,
Lord MORPETH said the present measure did not
exclude the metropolis as regarded the making of

duce it into one of the supplemental Bills, and he was
sure that if the Noble Lord did so, the public were pre-
pared to give him that aid which would overcome all
difficulty. If it were a question of money, of clergy
men's fees, so strong was the public feeling upon it,
that he was sure that if the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer came forward with a vote upon the sulject they
would sooner make that sacrifice than that the nuisance
should continue in its present state.
Captain PECHELL regretted that the Noble Lord
had not given them some information as to the mode of
electing the local commissioners in towns proposed to be
affected by this measure. He agreed in what had fallen
from the Noble Viscount near him (Duncan) on the
subject of the window-tax. That morning he had
formed one of a deputation that waited upon the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and he had dono all in his
power to extract from the Right Hon. Gentleman what
his notion of a window was, but his ( fforts were
unavailing.—(A laugh.) No measure could be satis-
factory unless it allowed light and air to be enjoyed
without any interference from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer.
Mr. HUME said, that whilst he approved of a large
portion of the Noble Lord's measure, yet it behoved the
Government and the House to consider whether they
were not putting the local community to a great expense
for only a partial benefit if they left out of their measure
the removal of the window-tax and the abelition of in•
ternients in towns. The Government should be com-
pelled by the Home to find a substitute for the window-
tax, for it was a mockery to propose a measure of sani-
tary reform, professing to be comprehensive, without
abolishing that tax. He trusted the Noble Lord (Lord
Duncan) would bring a motion for reducing the window-
tax substantively before the House, and that he would
take the sense of the House upon it.
The Earl of LINCOLN said he should have awaited
the .second reading of the Bill before offering any re•
marks to the House, had not each Hon. Member who
had spoken since the Noble Lord (Lord Morpeth) sat
down commenced with great laudations of the Bill, and
finished by dwelling upon the omission of those points
which he wished to see in it,—(Hear.) He protested
against these observations, and he would state his con-
viction that the Noble Lord had acted most wisely in
not encumbering the measure with details which would
only have impeded its progress. The Noble Lord's Bill
was sufficiently comprehensive already, and if it should
pass it would be a most valuable contribution towards
sanitary reform. It would be, in his opinion, far better
to pass this measure now than to add to it the dif-
ficult and intricate subject of interments in towns. It did
not follow, because the Government had omitted that
question from the present Bill, that they were not pre-
pared to take it up hereafter; and he hoped they would
be enabled to deal with it more effectively than their
predecessors. In an abstract point of view, it was highly
desirable to :remove the window-tax, but it might be
that the Noble Lord was prevented from doing what he
would wish in that respect by his Right Hon. Colleague
near him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer). That
question must also be dealt with by itself, and, although
the window-tax was much and justly complained of, he
thought it would be desirable to accept what they could
get. Ile could point out live or six important branches
of sanitary reform, but he did not regret that the Noble
Lord had omitted them from his Bill. Without following
the Noble Lord through any details, he would simply
state, that the measure now brought in appeared to him
to be considerably improved upon that of last year. The
local machinery was more likely to meet with the ap
probation of the country than that in former Bills. It
adopted a better natural area for drainage, and if it taxed
those who were benefitted by it, the Bill gave them an
opportunity of voting for the persons who were to ex-
pend their money. The Noble Lord was also inclined
to confine within its legitimate bounds the central au-
thoz it), and there was no more intermeddling with local
authorities than was necessary.—(Hear, hear.) If it
should be found that the measure in these respects was
an improved one, he had no doubt it would meet with a
more favourable reception than former Bills on this sub-
ject, and it would pass the House and prove highly
beneficial to the country.—(Hear.)
Mr. SLANEY drew the attentio❑ of the House to the
immense change in the social pursuits of the people
which had taken place within the last fifty years. In
the year 1790 the proportion of the labouring classes
engaged in husbandry was as two to one compared with
those employed in manufactures, whereas those propor-
tions were now exactly reversed. Plenty of inquiries
had been made into the social and' sanitary condition of
the people, and it was upon no light evidence that the
necessity of legislation was established. He could not
mention the name of Mr. Edwin Chadwick, by whom
these inquiries were instituted, without paying his tri-
bute of admiration to that gentleman for the constant
ability, industry, and intelligence with which he had
directed the powers of his mind to this subject. The
labouring classes of the kingdom owed Mr. Chadwick a
deep debt of gratitude for his exertions in their behalf,
and for having devoted his mind to the improve-
ment of their sanitary condition.—(hear, hear.) The
reports of the Health of Towns Commissioners abun-
dandy showed the necessity of the measure now before the
[louse. The Commissioners visited 50 large towns,
and they reported that in not one of them were the
arrangements for drainage, cleansing, and the supply
of water at all perfect ; while 45 out of the 50
exhibited the most defective sanitary arrangements, so
far as they regarded the health of the lower classes of
her Majesty's subjects. It had been said the measure
now before the House would cause great expense, but
he, as one of the Health of Towns Commissioners, said
it was a measure of economy, and that it would not only
be beneficial to the poor. but a saving to the rich, by les-
sening the poor-rates and diminishing crime; while, in
the increase of contentment and health among the hum-
bler classes, it would, he was certain, repay double and
treble anything that might be expended in sanitary im-
provement.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that property
should be protected, but he would ask, whether the poor
man's property, which was his health, his strength, his
sinews, and his power to labour, ought not to be pro-
tected by the laws and usages of society, as well as the
property of the rich? The Commissioners found in their
inquiries that the moral condition of the poor was ex-
actly coincident with their physical condition, and that
where they were suffering under defective sanitary ar-
rangements they became discontented, reckless, and flew
to intoxication as a short remedy for the depressing
sensations they experienced. Then they were up
braided for that which was not in fact their fault, and
which might have been prevented. He trusted, how-
ever, that a new and better system was now about to
prevail, and that the amelioration of the working classes
would be carried out in a comprehensive_and enlightened

spirit.
Mr. WAKLEY said, that he had not had the good
fortune to hear the opening statement of the Noble
Lord, and could not, therefore, follow him into details.
The Noble Lord the Member fur Falkirk had nut, how-
ever, paid a very high compliment to the Honse•when he
iatimated that, if the Noble Lord had brought forward a
very good measure, he would have had no chance of
passing it. On the contrary, he (Mr. Wakley) thought
that the people of England were a straightforward
people, and particularly fond of boll and comprehensive
measures of legislation. The proposed measure might
contain a great deal of good, but, as it stood, it went
short of what the public expected; and his conviction
was, that, instead of being received with public appro-
bation, it would be received, in the towns at least., with
public disapproval. The great and comprehensive
measure which they had been last session led to expect
had not been brought forward.—(Hear, hear.) He
had been given to understand that the metropolis was
excluded.
Lord MORPETH—It is reserved for a separate Bill.
Mr. WAKLEY—Why should it be excluded from
this Bill ? And when was this separate Bill to come
forth ? The public had a right to expect that where
the greatest nuisances existed there the remedies should
be first applied. And where was that ? It was in Lon-
don, in stinking London—(Laughter)—in filthy London,
that sanitary measures should begin.—(Hear.) The
Government left untouched the very centre of the dis-
ease, while the spots and blemie hes on the more distant
parts of the body were to be subjected to a Ministerial
dressing. It was all very well so long as easy matters
only were to be managed, but when courage, energy,
and comprehensiveness were required, then the Govern-
ment flinched. If the Noble Lord had proposed, for ex-
ample to interfere with the churchyards, then ho knew
very well that the Church would be at him, and in that
respect the Government had flinched from their duty.
Then, with regard to the window-tax, was it not
literally preposterous to talk about ,plenty of air and
light as necessary to all sanitary improvement, and then
to tax both light and air? Could not the common sense
of the people out of doors see the humbug that was
practised? This question had been worked very much
in Somerset house. The Commissioners there had a
great desire to give the people plenty of air, but he
would give them something to eat as well; for if they
once had pure air they would require more sustenance.
It was extraordinary to observe how the half and halt
measures of the Government were received with grati-
tude by that gentle assembly; but for his own part he
declared, as the representative of a large portion of the
community of this metropolis, that the people had just
cause to complain of the Government for not having
treated this question in a manly and comprehensive
seirit. It was monstrous for the Government to pretend
to introduce a sanitary measure, and to allow the
odious and detestable window-tax to remain unrepealed.
What would the large towns say to the measure? They
would say " You dare not tax the metropolis, but allow
the window-tax to remain, and put additional taxes
upon us?' He felt grateful to the Noble Lord for the
exertions he had made in the cause of sanitary reform;
but what the conntry wanted, and what he had hoped
tor, was that the Noble Lerd should stand erect and bid
defiance to all interested opposition. He must frankly
confess that the Noble Lord had not, in his opinion,
given them such a measure as the country had a right
to expect. Ile hoped the Noble Lord would re confider
the measure, that he would make it more comprehensive;
he might rest assured that he would have the people
with him. It had long been the character of the Whigs
that, when they had succeeded in doing a certain amount
of good, and when they had the opportunity and should
have done more good, they have uniformly brought
discredit on what they have done, by refusing to go
forward.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had lately
had representations made to him by gentlemen of
the medical profession he signified his full
accordance in their views but yet he had
not given them the measure they had a
right to expect. The medical gentlemen would not re-
ceive with gratitude the measure now before the House.
The sanitary question was the great question of the day
—it was a question intimately connected with the welfare
of the people—with their physical condition and moral
improvement. It was a question perfectly well under-
stood by the public. He would ask why was not the
metropolis included in the Bill? It was because the city
of London could not be included, and therefore the
metropolitan boroughs must be left out.—(Hear, hear.)
It was because the measure was not thought to be agree.

drains.
Mr. OSBORNE begged to ask the Noble Lord when
the separate Bill for the metropolis would be brought in?
Lord MORPETII—A Bill for extending and consoli-
dating the Commission of Sewers will be introduced im-
mediately; and the sanitary Bill for the metropolis will
be brought forward ita soon as the sanitary Commis-
sioners make such representations as the Government can
properly act upon.,
Mr. OSBORN E—That will not be this session.
Lord MORPETII—I hope in the course of a few
days.
Mr. JOHN REYNOLDS approved of the measure so
far as it went; but expressed his sorrow and deep regret
that its provisions were not to be made applicable to all
parts of the kingdom. lie could not see why it should
not be extended to Ireland and Scotland. Whilst giving,
to her Majesty's Government full credit for good inten-
tions to Ireland, he was not disposed to agree with those
who imputed to them the habit of giving good mea-
sures, when they were to be tried, a trial in England
first; and who charged them with, when bad measures
all their bad measures a trial
firstw
he v;a
re
hie
b,
I° rs
notetlrai ne tried,
disposedli—g(vli ng
to
age with
Ireland.—(Loud dl aur
egh ter anti
those cheers.)
h e eo
rs .) H
saide
brought
such charges against the Government. But still he could
not help again expressing his regret that they were not
about to give this measure a good trial in Ireland. He
would beg leave to direct the attention of the House to
the sanitary condition of the city of Dublin, than which
city there was none to which the Bill might do more
important service. He would read some portions of the
evidence taken before Mr. Abraham Heywood, of Dublin,
the Queen's Counsel, a gentleman well known to many
Honourable Members in the House. Mr. Heywood had
been appointed to inquire into the merits of a Bill in-
, and intended for the benefit
''oalunn in the course of his inquiry
ned: of information regarding the
&:c., of the city, to which he
(Mr. Reynolds) begged to call the attention of the Noble
soht reef ov
,tde.
halurei
cefteicgtdi
eet
d,ys
drainage,ono
mi;aeprgtiteibiniiaenn
paving,
Lord. (The Honourable Gentleman proceeded to read
extracts from the report, and also from the evidence of
Mr. Willis, showing the defective condition of the sewer-
age, some of the most important squares, and many streets
in the city, being wholly destitute of sewers; and in many
others the sewerage so extremely defective as to be almost
useless. The consequences were, the contraction of
habits of the utmost carelessness and filth by the lower
orders of the people, the increase of fever, the establish-
ment of malaria, and the nursing of hosts of diseases of
various descriptions in the crowded dirty back streets
and bye lanes.) }wing read.these extracts, the Hon.
Gentleman expressed is hope that the Noble Lord would
take into his consideration the propriety of extending the
provisions of the Bill to all parts of the kingdom. lie
(Mr. Reynolds) was not going to allude to that colossus
of the kingdom. the giant corporation of the city of Lon-
don, nor to the part adopted by that colossus towards the
Noble Lord's measure. But he had to allude to the
giant's sister, the corporation ofh Dublin. Standing as he
did as sponsor for that body, e begged to assure the
Noble Lord that nothing would give them greater satis-
faction than the introduction of the provisions of the Bill
into their city—(Hear, hear)—and he trusted that the
question of their extension to them would be taken into
consideration by her Majesty's Cabinet. The question,
too, ought to be considered in connexion with that most
obnoxious impost the window-tax ; for he believed no
measure for the improvement of the sanitary condition
of the people would give general satisfaction unless it
were accompanied by the abolition ef a tax on light and
air.--(Hear, hear.)
Lord EBRINGTON having for a long time taken a
deep and sincere interest in the cause to which the Bill
before the House related, hoped he would be excused for
offering a very few observations to the House. His
Noble Friend (Lord Morpetb) had already said so much
on the introduction of the Bill as to render it unneerte
nary for him (Lord Ebrington) to go into any defence of
its details, but he could not avoid off ring some remarks
upon the speeches that had been male subsequently to
that of his Noble Friend. He was Ll .d the Honourable
Member for Finsbury had spoken, because his speech
had given an opportunity to the Hon. Member for
Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) to! show that the city he repro.
seated had no objection, and was not unwilling to have
a measure of sanitary Worm introduced there. But as
the lion. Member for Finsbury had spoken in praise of
the superior sanitary condition of Paris, he (Lord Ebring-
ton) begged to be allowed, as one who had more than
once or twice visited that city, to say, that a city which

had hardly any sowers, and until lately scarcely a
water-closet,' and which abounded in cesspools, could
hardly be called perfect, and was certainly not exactly
to be held up as a copy to be followed by us. But, in
fact, the condition of Paris was vastly worse than that
of London. As to the suggestion regarding the estab-
lishment of fever hospitals in the suburbs, there would
be great difficulty ix dealing with such a proposition.
It would be necessary to carry fever patients, in convey-
ances, provided for them, through the streets and
crowded thoroughfares, and great danger might arise
hem such an intercourse. With respect to the ob-
jections made by the Hon. Member for Bodmin (Mr.
Wyld) to the expense of mapping, from all the estimates
that had been laid before the Government, he believed
that, far from the alarming sum mentioned by that
Hon. Gentleman, about 27,0001. would suffice to cover
the whole expense of mapping, exclusive of engraving.
Mr. HODGES approved of the Bill, and applauded
the conduct of the Noble Lord in excluding the metropo-
lfiascfromLord
ioMr.l
Bao
its
it (t)hiprteron
as'
ai
Ttie
sinTnoneOrs:Nipnlaile,l,sdholcah the pproved of the Bill.
t
He expressed
House h
ad great
receivedsa t satis-
faction
the statement made by him, and hoped it would be
ominous of success. Perhaps the only comment upon
his statement with which he should be disposed to quarrel
would be that which had been made by an Hon. Gentle-
man, the Hon. Member for Finsbury, who had not heard
him.—(Laughter.) That Hon. Gentleman complained
that the measure was deficient in comprehensiveness,
and wished that he (Lord Morpetl ) would apply the
same erinciple of legislation to the metropolis which he
was about to apply to all other parts of the country.
But, after all, taking into account all that was being done
in the metropolis, he (Lord Morpeth) believed that
London would be, after all, the first city in the progress
of sanitary reform, and would prove a model of peace-
don in it. With regard to tho suggestion of establishing
fever hospitals in the outlets, it would receive the most
serious attention from the Government; but the trans-
ference of fever patients would be certainly attended
with serious difficulty. But it would hardly have
been wise in the Government to have at-
tempted to introduce into that measure such
arrangements as would have opened up the
large and extensive question of the establishment of
cemeteries—a subject that required great deliberation
and caution. But under the now re gulation power
would be given to the central board to prevent for the
future any corpses from being interred within the walls
of churches, and any fresh interment from taking place
within those burial-grounds that wore declared injurious
to the health of the neighbourhood. No interments
could take place in those without the special permission
of the board. Power would also be taken to provide
houses for the reception of the dead previously to inter-
ment, by which those harassing and distressing scenes
which had so frequently taken place amongst the poor
would be prevented. He admitted that the measure was
not and could not be deemed a perfect one, for the Go.
vernment was amenable to that insuperable law which
prevented the possibility of everything desirable being
done at once.—(llear, hear.) But if they did not make
a beginning by doing some good thing at once, the
entire good that was so much desired could never be
done at all.—(Hear, hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, and Lord
MORPETH named Lord John Russell, Sir George Grey,
and the Attorney-General, as the Noble and Hon. and
Learned Members to whose care it was to be entrusted.
The Bill was subsequently introduced by the Noble
Lord, and road a first time, and ordered to be read a
second time on Friday, the 18th inst.
ABINGDON ELECTION.
The SPEAKER announced that it was not intended
to proceed with the petition against the return of Sir
F. Thesiger for the borough of Abingdon.
REMOVAL OF THE POOR.
Mr. BAINES moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the proceedure in respect of orders for the re-
moval of the poor in England and Wales, and appeal
therefrom. What he proposed was, that instead of the
examinations being sent by the removing parishes,
there should be sent a statement of the grounds of
removal on the one side, and cf appeal on the other; the
sessions having the power of amending that statement
so that any technical errors might be corrected.
COMMERCIAL RELATIONS WITH CHINA.
Mr. CARDWELL rose to bring under the notice of
the House the report of the Select Committee appointed
in 1847, to take into consideration the present state of
our commercial relations with China. The anticipations
which had been formed of extended intercourse with
the East, and of its affording fresh outlets for the great
and increasing manufacturing power of this country, had
not been fulfilled, although, in some respects, our trade
with China appeared to justify them. In 1827 our exports
to China amounted to nearly 610.0001.; in 1843 they
had grown to nearly 1,500,000/4 and in 1845 to
2,394,000/. Nevertheless, when, fifteen years ago, the
trade of the Eastern empire was opened to competition,
we did venture to believe, that, with a population of
upwards of 300,000,000, our export trade would have by
this time greatly exceeded 2,400,000/. Our anticipations
had not been realised. Such as the trade with China had
been, however, a very large portion of it had fallen to
Great Britain ; and it was most important to our do-
mestic interests that we should, as far as possible, en-
courage and increase it. The return of the imports of
China in 1845 was 20,000,000 dollars, of which no less
than 16,000,000 were imported in British ships, neatly
3,000,000 in American ships, and the remainder in ships
of all the rest of the world. There was, besides, a very
large trade in opium, the greater part of which belonged
to dependencies of this country, giving an additional
sum of 23,000,000 of dollars ; so that, out of a trade
amounting to 43,000,000 dollars, scarcely 4,000,000 be-
longed to other than this country. In 1843 there was
a remarkable increase in our trade with China contrasted
with previous years, and in 1845 a still greater. But
the Committee stated in the first page of their report,
that that increase of trade had been attended with no
corresponding benefit to England, inasmuch as it had
been carried on at a loss of from 30 to 40 per cent.
They found that, notwithstanding that loss, the trado;had
gone on increasing for three or four years. The ex-
planation was this: the trade was first in the bands of
the British merchants, who, not finding it remunerative,
abandoned it. Then it was taken up by the British ma-
nufacturers, in their anxiety to find an outlet for their
increased produce. Their attempt being also unsuccess-
ful, it was taken up by the natives of China themselves,
for the purpose of finding a market for their own pro-
duce, but they too found it unremunerative. It there-
fore followed that unless we were able to proceed in
another direction, our trade with China must be con.
tracted to those limits only which would prove remune-
rative. The returns for our merchandise were comprised
in the three principal articles of silver, silk, and tee—
the annual export of silver being 2,000,0001. The Bri-
tish Consul, writing in April, 1847, said, " how long
the Chinese will be able to sustain this continual drain
of 2,000,000/. of precious metal, it is impossible to
say; but it is a wel-established fact that the ex-
port of tea to England cannot be increased under the
present system of duties ; and unless a new opening be
found for a larger amount of Chinese exports to our
markets, a gradual reduction must take place either in
the quantity or the prices of our goods in China. It is
beyond calculation to what extent the Chinese would
purchase our woollens and cottons if we would take
their produce in return." This was fully confirmed by Sir
J. Davis, who said that the import trade of China
depended wholly upon their export trade ; that conse-
quently the increase of their exports would create a
corresponding increase in their imports. Now it was
owing to the rate of duties levied by us on tea which
prevented our taking a larger quantity of that article—
duties amounting on the average to upwards of 200 per
cent. upon the cost price. He had been informed of a
cheap tea having been purchased in Liverpool, and
which ultimately went for the use of a poor-house in
Cork, upon which the duty amounted to 1,000 per cent.
on the price. But to the consumer it made a still
greater difference than the mere amount of the duty,
because the greater the duty the greater the capital re-
quired ; and as there must be a profit on capital, it was
not surprising to fold a witness telling the
Committee that a duty of 2s. 2d. to the revenue was an
addition to the consumer of 2s. 9d. on the price of the
tea. So that, in a very large proportion of instances,
the profit alone upon the duty would exceed the cost of
the tea. Let the House observe who were next to us in
the trade—the Americans, who levied no duty upon tea,
while we had a duty varying from 200 to the exceptional
cases of 1,000 per cent. The Hon. Gentleman then
quoted the commercial circular of Holmshed and Ketley,
of Liverpool, dated Dec. 31, 1847, showing that, while
our cotton trade with China had decreased by about one-
thhaidr di
nbnertewa
ee
dn, 1
aBn3d7 awaads IsBt4il6l,i
ntnliraeta
soifn
gt h. e
ItUnited
oStt s.
portance to watch with vigilance how far we could supply
the markets of China in return for their exports. The
Committee stated that the revenue we derived in 1846 of
5,110,0001. could not be permanently relied on, as the
trade was not remunerative to the importer. In 1842 it
barely exceeded 4,000,0001; in 1843 it did not reach
4,500,000/.; and in 1847 he had reason to believe that it
would barely reach 5,000,000/.; although in 1846 it had
been upwards of that amount. Our exports of cotton
cloths in 1844 was 1,460,0001.; in 1845, 1,540,0001.; and
in 1846 they fell to 940,0001., and in 1847 to 888,0001.
He found, with regard to shipments of cotton cloth from
Liverpool to China, in the year 1845, they had amounted
to 112,000,000 yards; in 1846, they fill to 76,000,000
yards; and in 1847 they had come dowa to 56,000,000
yards, being just one-half of what they bad been in the
year 1845. If such had been the case, it followed that
this diminution of exports bad led to a diminution
of
imports, and that consequently the revenue has dimi-
nished. Therefore it was that while the Committee
had reported that so important an item of revenue
could not be lightly dealt with, they reported that they
bad the strongest reason to believe that the then exist-
ing amount of revenue from this source could not per-
manently be expected. The Committee then had turned
its attention to the consideration of what would be the
times,un dshsca.
change
acbnoegneesnui
nfmuerd-
the
effect of any change in the - amount of duht.y, a_ d on
this point some statistics and calculations, w ich shored
the changes in prices which bad been effected by an
page 443 of these.
al-
terationnibe d , andof thewe r
eduties ien
foundib e r
at
reports. From these statistics it appeared that in 1 82
yln 1/84 the duty was
the duty on tea was at the rate of e 6 per cent , and
antadthbaetentimaebnutht 06,0nounoboe.rb
reduced to 12/. 10s. per cent., and the quantity consumed
rose to 10,000,0001 b. That duty continued up to 1795,
quoted this for the purpose of showing. that there existed
when the consumption had riscaonfiutol3c2oiloi.,ooo,ooolb. He
some reason to believe that,
existing duty, the consumption would increase and the
revenue thereby be kept up. As to the quantities of tea
consumed, be found, in the evidence taken before the
Committee and annexed to their report, that in families
where expense was not an object the average might be
taken at 121 b. per head. In the workhouse it was 311 b.
per head. To emigrants 41b. 3oz. per head was allowed.
In the navy it was 41b. 4oz. per head, besides cocoa. In
Australia there was reason to believe the consumption

was exceedingly large, being at the rate of Sib. or 91h. venue, it would in the end be made up by an in-
per head; while in the United Kingdom the average was creased consumption of tea.—(Hear, hear.) This was
only about lib. loz. per head, being about one half of wesgeot only true of tea, but el other articles ; the
the ordinery allowancegranted is the workhouses. Those same argument had been applied to wine, and also to
who wishe d the duty to b ‘ reduced had contended that the a...l)sec° ; and it was true of all articles on which a
reduction ought to be from 2s. Lad. to to 1 s., sind they stated high duty was imposed. As to the increased consump-
that if the same money now spent on tea should be tion of tea diminishing the consumption of spirits,
spent when the duty was reduced to Is., that duty on he was not prepared to offer an opinion ; but he must
24,000,0001b5. would yield 1,200,000/., which, added to say that there was no article of which he would more
the existing amount yielded to the revenue, viz , gladly see the consumption reduced than of spirits, pro-
-1,200,0001., would give in the first year of the reduction vided the revenue was made up from other sources ; and
3,500,0001. from the article of tea. But then if 32,000 probably an increased consumption of tea might have
tens of sugar was taken as the additional supply neces- some influence in that respect. But he feared that if
sary for the additional consumption of tea, taking that any such reduction were made fresh taxes must of neces-
quantity at a duty of 145., it would yield about 45.5,000/., sity be imposed to make up the immediate deficiency ;
thus showing the total revenue to be expected from the for if, in the article of sugar, for instance, the increased
tea and sugar to umount to about 3,962,000/. Another consumption were set off against the reduction of duty,
point had been brought under the notice of the Com- he feared there would be, for some years, a considerable
mittee, which, however, he (Mr. Cardwell) did not take loss. The Hon. Gentleman who had seconded this mo-
ms the basis of any computation, because it would give a don was in favour of an ad valorem duty on tea; but the
result more sanguine than he should venture to en- Committee had recommended a uniform duty of a shil-
courage. It had, however, been stated in • vidence that ling a round ; and he believed the advantages were
in 1844 a change had taken place in the Isle of Man in decidedly on the side of a fixed uniform duty.—(hear,
the mode of collecting the duty there levied on tea, hear, and " Very low.") But it was quite impossible
the effect of which had been (as the Committee were to reduce the duty to anything like the amount recom-
told) to diminish the cost of that article by Is. 61, per mended by the Committee without risking some two
lb. In 1844 the consumption there was 75,0001b5., and trillions of revenue ; and that ens a risk not very
in 1546, it had risen to 138,0001b5. Whirs he (Mr. likely to be incurred just now. The lion. Member for
Cardwell) admitted that it would have been rash on the Liverpool had said that, on a former occasion, the dis-
part of the Committee to have mule this the basis of tressed state of the country had been made the ground
their computation of the profitable increase ef con• far a considerable reduction of taxation ; but he should
sumption in the whole of the United Kingdom, remember that that reduction had been accompanied by
yet he was of opinion that he was bound not to close the the imposition of the income-tax. In like manner, if
case without thus calling attention to the success in the they were new to repeal the window duty. from which
operation of a change is tbc duty on the same article. 1,700,0001. was derived, cr any other tax vdlicli brought
But he might be asked where was the money--e here in a considerable revenue, it could only be done by the
the resources to come from which the population of this imposition of some other tax, which would yield at least
country were to spend in sugar to be used with the in- as great an amount ; and whether the gentlemen who
creased consumption of tea ? His answer was, that if advocated these reductions would cheer:ldly submit to
this country imported 24,000,0001105. additional of tea an addition to the income-tax or to the property-tax he
there would be an addition to the exports of 1,000.0001., very much doubted.—(Hear, and a laugh.) On this
of which two-thirds would be spent in the wages of the subject it would be most improper in him to anticipate
artisans of England, and this addition would go to their the statement which the Noble Lord at the head of the
other means of purchasing tea and sugar. If, then, such Government would give in ten days' time respecting the
a change stimulated industry, it would add to the ins general finances of the country. lie should therefore
ports and exports and increase the demand for other best discharge his duty by not saying another word on
articles which constitute the comforts of the the part of this question which related to revenue. To
working classes, and which contribute to the the motion of the Hon. Gentleman he had not the
Treasury a revenue of which the Chancellor of the slightest objection.—(Hear.)
Exchequer would feel the advantages. But then the Lord G. BENTINCK said the House had had some
Committee had been teld by some of the witnesses who little experience in the mode now proposed of improve
had been examined (and the same objection had been ing the revenue, namely, by " removing the burdens
frequently raised), that the supply of tea might be ea- from the springs of industry." In 1838 the postage had
petted to fall short, and that an increased demand for been reduced to a penny ; and now, after a lapse of ten
England might raise the price of the article in China; years, the revenue from the Post-office, then 1,800,0001.,
and that the result would be that the value being thus was but half that amount.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
made higher here, the public would not have the benefit Member for Liverpool and his friends had taken off the
of the reduction of duty. On that point, however, the duties from timber, cotton, core, silk, and brandy,
Committee had examined several witnesses at great thereby making a present of so much of our revenue to
length, as would be seen by a reference to the report. foreign nations.—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord G. Bentinck)
They had had the advantage of examining Mr. Parkor,who had recommended, two years ago, that our relations
had spent some time in China on a mission of a different with China should be cultivated. In the United States,
character, and who was well acquainted with that with their 20,000,000 of inhabitants, only 19,900,000
country; they had also examined the Honourable lbs. of tea were annually consumed, although it was sub-
Members for Ashburton, for South Lancashire (Mr. W. *tea to no duty ; and the lion. Member for Liverpool
Brown), and for Dartmouth (Mr. %ioffatt), and many was therefore a little sanguine in calculating the in-
others of great experience, and all these witnesses creased consumption of tea, with a reduction of Is. 2d.
stated that they had not the slightest fear that any per lb. in the duty, at 22000,000 of pounds. Two
demand made by this country in China for the article }ears ago, when everybody appeared to be free-
of tea would tend to cause anything like a scarcity trade mad, Mr. Glyn and the directors of the North
of supply. On the contrary, the Committee had Western Railway Company were induced to try the ex-
been told that though the enormous population of China periment of reducing their tariff ; and the consequence
were themselves great consumers, and that as they was a reduction in the shareholders' dividends from 10 to
would take commodities which this country could fur- 8 per cent. ; while the lion. Gentleman near him (Mr-
nish, the small additional drain the change would cause Hudson) had strongly resisted the innovation on the
could not possibly increase the price of tea, because the Midland line, and their dividends were still undi-
land was abundant, the facility of cultivation was great. ininished.—(Hear, hear.) He could not support the Hon.
Another matter had arisen before the Committee, about Member for Liverpool.
which some little was said. On that matter the Com- Mr. MOFFATI' thanked the Hon. Gentleman the
mittee had the advantage of the presence of the lion. Member for Liverpool for the able and lucid manner in
Member for Sheffield (elle Parker), who watched the which he introduced this subject. He did not think the
proceedings with a view to ascertain how far a diminu- Noble Lord who had just spoken had succeeded in
tion of the tea duties would injure the revenue, by lead- showing that a loss of revenue must necessarily follow,
ing to a diminution in the consumption of spirits. The from a reduction of duty. The Post office revenue was
llonourable Member had moved for and obtained within five per cent, of what it was before the reduce.
a return, which showed that the population of the don took place, great as that reduction was.—(Hear,
United Kingdom, amounting to 26,700,000, con- hear.) He thought that as a matter of justice to the►
sumed annually 24,000,000 gallons of spirits; and Chinese, and of expediency towards themselves, a re-
that in Scotland, in 1845, there were entered for ductiou of the duties on tea ought to be made. He diet
home consumption, 6,500,000 gallons of spirits for not think with the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancel+
a population of 2,600,000. In fact, the consump- lor of the Exchequer) that there would be anything like a.
tion of spirits in the whole of the United Kingdom, loss of 2,000,0001. in the revenue.—(Hear, hear.)
was shown to be 24,000,000 gallons. He (Mr. Card- Mr. W. BROWN said that he had investigated the.
well) did not know why the reduction of the tea duties question of the reduction of duties since 1667, and her
would diminish the produce to the Exchequer of the found that up to the present time a reduction fof dntr
duty on spirits; but with all rmpset for the Exchequer, had been followed by increased consumption. Thai
he should certainly be, pleased it, by a reduction of the question, then, was, how much the duty ought to be.
tea duties, those arising from spirits should fall eff, and reduced, so that the revenue might not suffer? He
in such an event lie should be most ready to support the was of opinion that if there was a reduction of revenue
Chancellor of the Exchequer in a Committee of Ways from a reduction of tho duty on tea, it could be made
and Means in imposing a duty almost upon any other up from other rources. For instance, he could not see
commodity, to supply the deficiency in the spirit duties. atm reason why the legacy duty which was paid on
—(Flean) Ile begged now to ask whether the House personal property should not be paid likewise on real
or the country was satisfied with the existing trade with property.—(dear, hear;) When the Noble Lord spoke
China? China had a population of 300,000,000, ar.d df the consutnption of tea in America as being only
yet the tra lo of Great Britain with leer had never ex 20,000,0001bm. amongst a population of 20,000,000, he
ceeded 2,000,000/. of annual exports. Why was that ? eirget to mention (what was most material) that
Was it from the want of any sagacity on the part of 5 000,000 of that population did not consume any tea.
the Chinese—was it from any want of commercial lie did nut think that the revenue would ultimately
principle among them? On the contrary, the Chinese suffer by a judicious reduction of the duties on tea, and
nation was equally distinguished for its industry ant considering the e fleet which such a measure must pro-
the desire to turn that industry to the best account. duce in a moral point of view, he was of opinion that it
Was it then that the Chinaman having strange notions was one which Government ought to adopt.—(Hear.)
of civilisation and a peculiar contempt for the foreign Mr. MASTERMAN thought that great credit was
barbarian, had raised some obstacles in the way of inter- due to the Hon. Member for Liverpool for bringing this
course between the two nations? There had been a day question tinder the notice of the House and the country.
when apprehemions of that kind had been seriously lie was aware of the difficulties attending an ad valorem
entertained, and fifteen years ago it had been said that system of duties with respect to tea, but ho thought that
such practices would prevail, but in 1844 a treaty had if those difficulties could in any way be got over, that
been concluded with them, by which British manufac- such a system would effect all that was desirable, namely,
tures were imported by them at duties varying from 5 give the people the benefit of cheap tea, without injur-
to 10 per cent.--ea that the obstacles to intercourse had ing the revenue. But if the Chancellor of the Exchequer
not been created by the uncivilised, but by the civilised had any revenue to spare—(Laughter)—he could not
—not by the barbarous, but by the refined. By the evi- possibly select a more fitting article than tea on which
donee of the British Consul, corroborated by the British to effect a reduction —(hear.)
Governor, there existed but one limit to the trade be- Mr. BROTHERTON thought there could be only
tween the two nations, and that limit arose from one opinion as to the propriety of reducing the duty,
the amount of duty at which this country admitted provided the poor were to get the benefit of such a re-
Chinese exports.—(clear, hear.) From recent ae- &teflon. In the year 1815 the consumption of tea
counts it appeared the Chinese had become apt on in this country was 19,000,0001b5., which
the subject of reciprocal protection, and that although cost 3,500,0001. ; in 184 G, the consumption was
they were bound by treaty from charging higher rates 46,000,0001 W., which cost 3,000,0001., that was
of duty than those he had stated at any port of import, to say they gave 500,0001. less for 46,000,0001b5. of tea
still he believed that the Chinese exporter had been the in 184 G than they gave for 19,000,0001b5. in 1815. That
medium of communication between the British tariff and showed a very great increase of consumption; and if the
his own Government, and that though they could not duty was reduced Is. he thought it reasonable to expect
lay on British goods any increase of duties at the port that the consumption would be doubled. That would
of import, they had increased the transit and inland cause a reduction in the consumption of spirits, which ho
duties, making them available to their revenues, and he considered to be a great benefit. But if a reduction of
feared that if this state of things lor.g continued, the un duty were made, he was afraid it would increase the
civilised Chinaman would be found to be an apt scholar price in China, and that the merchant would increase
in the school of prohibitory ditties, and that a hostile the price at home, as in the case of coffee, and that the
tariff' would be established in China which this country profits would be divided between the Chinese and the
would have no p :wer to meet.—(hear. hear.) Looking merchants, leaving the poor little or no benefit from the
to the near approach of the financial statement, he (Mr reduction.—(Hear, hear.) If increased imports of tea
Cardwell) had felt it clue to the Committee and to their had the effect of =Ling an exportation of British menu-
Chairman (Led Sandon, now the Earl of harrow by). ;tenures, that would be an advantage. He was afraid,
whose mantle had in some degree fallen upon Idle that however, that this would only increase the import of
the report should not be permitted to slumber.— 'Team into China, which could not be too much depre-
(Hear, hear.) In conclusion, and as a matter of form,rates.—(!lear, hear.) If the poor were to have the
he begged to move for a return of the reports hem fit of cheap tea, villy not impose an ad valorem duty
and correspondence received on the subject of duties from upon it?
the Governor and the Consul in China (Hear, hear.) Dr. 110 WRING said, that if his Honourable Friend
Mr. EW AR r seconded the motion, and said he waited had been a member of the Committee on this subject, be
with anxiety to 1: arn what course her Maj, sty's Govern would be convinced that the imposition of an ad valorem
ment intended to adopt both with the tea and the tobacco duty on teas was altogether impracticable.—(Hear, hear.)
duties. The present tea duties grievously oppressed the From the extensive trade which this country almost
poor of this country. While the rich maids tea was exclusively carriedi en with China it would derive great
about 100 per cent., that on the inferior kinds was about advantage from a reduction of the duty on teas. The
350 per cent. Mr. Pitt had not imposed the tea duties in reason why other countries failed in their operations
1796 with that !view ; by means of an ad
-valorem duty with China was, that there was no demand there for
he almost exempted the inferior kinds of tea. The duty their home productions. His Honourable Friend was
on coffee had been recently reduced from Is. to 4,1. per mistaken in supposing that the opium trade was paid for
pound, and that on cocoa from ls. to 2d.; the cense- in tea. On the contrary, there was no
article 1T
quence was that the consumption of the former had in- was more readily paid for in syeee silver
sayingopium.
in
long period the consumption of tea hail only increased [here was any smuggling ofteale
set them by China
f
130 per cent. In Guernsey and other places the annual They ought to follorowt hsey s e
stem mamp
of tariffs.—(Hear.)
consumption of tea was about four pounds per head itself in
laddeorpmdenn SIDNEY thought there was a great
g a
—a proof of how great an increase in the con- .
sumption might be anticipated from a reduction in the tallicy. in the argument with respect to the expected in-
duty. The time was come when these duties must be
crease inl the consumption of tea from a reduction of the
considered, and when a comprehensive view ought to be duty. n 1801 the consumption per head was Ilb. 30z.,
taken of the Excise duties. There should be a general the average price being then 4s, to ss. per lb. In 1846,
revision of our whole taxation.—(Hear, hear.) He was when the price of tea was not more than one-third of
prepared to throw a larger burden on accumulated pro• what it was in 1801, the consumption per head was only
perty, but not on incomes.—(Hear, hear.) The result [lb. 10oz.—(Bear, hear.) In a commercial point of view,
of this would be a considerable relief to the trading and he admitted that a reduction of the duty would be a mat-
manufacturing interests, and the springs of industry ter of good policy. If there was an increase in the con-
would thus be strongthened.—(Hear, hear.) sumption of tea to the extent of 24,000,0001b5., the
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that quantity consumed per head would be 21bs. 7oz. Now
no apology was necessary from the Hon. Gentleman op. ne believed they must live for half a century before the
posite for introducing this subject. At the same time he people of this country could be persuaded to consume tea
ought not to argue tees strongly on the present depressed to that amount.—(Hear.)
state of the trade with China ; for his own statements Mr. WILSON said that the increase of' consumption
sufficiently accounted for it. On the opening of the was expected to arise from the demands of the poor, and
trade, the merchants had eagerly engaged in it, and not from the rich, to whom price was not an object.
after carrying it on for a short time had found it a In Ireland particularly a large increase of consumption
very losing concern. That was almost universally might be expected. lie believed that a mode might be
the case on the opening of any new trade. It list devised for reducing the duty without diminishing the
been notoriously time case on die opening of revenue. In 1546 the consumption of tea was
the trade with the States of
,South America. The 46,700,0001b5. In 1847, in consequence of manufactur-
whole mercantile world at once engaged in it, and ing distress, the consumption had fallen to 45,500,0001b5.
the South American markets were consequent!} and in 1848 he did not think the Chancellor of the
glutted. The same had occurred with China. Many Exchequer could calculate on a greater consumption
merchants had consequently found the trade a losing than 44,000,0001b5. This showed that there was 8n
concern, and had given it up. In the same way the increase or decrease of consumption according to the
manufacturers had suffered, and had teen deterred from prosperity of the country. In 1831 the consumption
sending more of their fabrics to that market. The fact teas 31.000,°001h5., the price being io.l. rice there
it
H e
6d. believed, be mnatedhe
was, the Chinese markets had been glutted in the first was last year. Under that reduction of pricoeibts e
instance with time quantity of manufactured goods sent sin increased consumption of 15,000,00.
)ass.o
wanitdwhaist
withoutathat a
from this country; and however lamentable might be seemed that this increase had gone on pabr
believe that a
ess r or deairaall-
the check which the trade had suffered, it was the natu- reduction of price. Now he did not
ral result of the excessive exports in the first instance. entire abolition of these duties
snec
however,ay
poor
was tol da
He considered that more stress had been laid on an tde in the first instance.
atrade
diminution of the importations of China in one particu• reduction from 2s. 2kd. to:is.
firstmight,ear.
lag year than was right, looking at the permanent state any failing off even- in
the
acquanted) with
of tea sold to the
of the trade in that country. In 1843, there was an by those praeticall)'
portionlb. If they took 4.5. as a fair average
addition of about half a million to the imports, which that the largest
had increased from a million sterling in the preceding tea sold at 4s.
alhd.d_wedith a fair profit. to it Is. 6d. duty,
year, to about a million and a half. In 1844, the' price of this tte;einsobldonadt,3ain. and added
increased to 2,300,000/.; and, in 1845, to nearly
the tea
agintlligaht theb same amount of money would be spent
Cal-
-2,4oo,oooL;—more than double the amount of 1842. 2
in tea under those prices
It was hardly likely that all this would be taken
ea
uthat an increasedsale was spent at present, he
off at once.; and if, in the subsequent year, there roundßb a revenue of nearlyfollor of
millionsonly• 15,
aoonOudOn, Oteoohavil'ofutlol
which, was to be added the increased
had been a considerable falling di under this 4
received
head, it was only what might have ben expected from
or the duty on the additional
previous experience. With regard to the general trade 'or
ear Bill of sugar consumed.lim To the
1846 he thought the reduction of the tea
he concurred in almost every position which elsdolhtn; 1 .
~
, tides ought to he considered a necessary complement.
Member for Liverpool had laid down.— (Hear.) Li
not the least doubt that, by diminishing the duty on tea, Mr. HUDSON was very glad to find that the Chancellor
the consumption would be greatly extended, and that, in d' the Exchequer was not to be seduced by this sort of ape-
culative argument. Ile was
glad he had at last found out
course of titne, the revenue lost by lowering the dut)
the leastdoubt chat a reduction of duty was not always followed by
would b© made up, Again, he had t
must ent' 1 ' .
that the quantity of goods sent to China . entire l 3 :in increased consumption, or a decrease of price. He
which could be obtained from was also glad to find the Member for Salford retracting
depend on the returns . .
tea at
that country, and that, by admitting a low rate o: his free trade principles.—("Hear, hear," from the
duty, our exports to China would be considerably ex- country party.) It was a satisfactory indication that
i.
tended, to the manifest benefit of the consumers, mane these principles were not so popular among the manu-
facturers, and ship-owners of this country ; also, the, acturers as they were once supposed to be. As that
though considerable loss aright be entailed on the re. 4 Lion. Member truly said, the profit arising froth these