The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-04 00:00:00

IRELAND.

Lord BROUGHAM moved for copies of the procla-
mations of the Lord. Lieutenant of Ireland for the appre-
hension of traitors. This rebellion, which had become
more contemptible than detestable, because it had origi-
nated in personal vanity, had been quelled for a season;
and if anything could make him more contented than
another with these results, it was the appointment of
Sir Henry Hardinge.—(Cries of" Lord Hardinge.") He
begged pardon for mentioning him by the name by which
he had earned his honours. He had accepted, as a duty
to his country, of a situation which no man would wil-
lingly have undertaker.. Not consulting his previous
fame, and thereby affording a marvellous contrast to
those wretched person% who, for the gratification of
their ipersonal vanity, :had been led into rebellion, he
had consented to accept a subordinate situation.
He would add his counsels to those of his Noble Friend
at the head of the Irish Government, and although
all might have been over before his arrival, yet he would
not have gone over in vain. Although the first outbreak
had been put down, yet they might have further out-
breaks. He feared that the account with Ireland was
not yet finally settled, but he thought that Noble
Lords could not better occupy themselves during the
vacation than in studying the reports of the Colonisation
Committee. They had colonies of immense resources, of
immense fertility, in Australia and in North
America, with a most scanty and insufficient
population. In Australia near a million of
sheep were sacrificed from the inability to find
shepherds to tend those flocks. The influx of labourers
would bring about the influx of capital. He by no
means meant to say that there were no difficulties in the
question of coloniz stion, because the mother country
wished to get rid of the bad, and the colonies only
wished to receive the good. With regard to Ireland, he
feared we had been too mild in treating the beginnings of
those outrages—we had been afraid of interfering with
that which, in the new technicology, was named agita-
tion, which was taken to mean merely dis-
cussion, but which really meant a parliament sit-
ting, if not illegally, at least after a fashion,
tending illegally to produce a breach of the law. These
persons had levied money without the consent of Parlia-
ment under the name of rent, not to preserve the
peace of the country but to break it. These things
had gone on to an immense extent, but he had
never read anything with greater astonishment in his
life than he had read the letter of Mr. Labouchere, tell-
ing the Irish people that it was their right tocarry arms.
No doubt they had a right to carry arms; no doubt, un-
der certain circumstances they had a right to resist; fur
our constitution was founded on the principle of resist-
ance: it might therefore be a duty as well as a right to
. .

carry arms. - But who would preach such a doclrine as
this in Ireland, where the suggestion of arms and resist-
ance would mean nothing more nor less than rebellion?
Could it be supposed that any one but a driveller would
he guilty of such conduct? He would again caution the
Government as to their proceedings. The disturbances
might appear to have been put down for the present, but
they might depend upon it that in Ireland these agita-
tors would have recourse to such meetings, and to the
system of clubs; and he would, in the most friendly
spirit to his Noble Friend opposite (the Marquis of
Lansdowne), tender his humble advice, that he would
consider the propriety of taking immediate steps by law
to prevent this system of clubs being continued. When
he saw that fifteen proclamations had been issued—
that eight counties and parts of seven other counties.
comprising the most important portion of Ireland—had
been proclaimed, he could not help considering how
much the existsnce of clubs had contributed to bringing
about this state of disturbance.—(Hear, hear.) The
measure which had received their Lordships' sanction,
and which was commonly called the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act, was, in his opinion, a most impor-
tant addition to the law. No one on this side of the
water would object to this enactment, and he was sure
that it would be found most beneficial in aiding in the
restoration of tranquillity. Even if no such measure had
passed, he did not expect that anything like a convulsion
leading to a dismemberment of the empire would have
taken place, but still there could be no doubt but that a
great deal of bloodshed and a great deal of misery would
have resulted, above all to innocent persons, not
merely to the dupes of the traitorous parties, but to
others who would have no share whatever in the dis-
turbances that would take place. He had thrown out a
suggestion the other day to his Noble Friend, which he
hoped would be taken into consideration by the Govern.
ment, with respect to the inconvenience of a prorogation
of Parliament at such a period as the present. He had
made the suggestion, because he knew what the effect
would be of Parliament sitting, and of those evil• minded
persons knowing that a few hours could only pass over
before the Legislature interposed, with whatever powers
might be necessary, to put down any attempt at disturb-
ances that they might perpetrate. Before sitting down he
wished to say one word as to what had taken place with
respect to the passing of the last measure of coercion.
Their Lordships had a standing order which prevented
any measure from going through more than one stage
in a single day. That standing order might be dis-
pensed with, but that they had unfortunately the stand.
ing order, Number 104, which required that no stand-
ing order of their Lordships' House could be dispensed
with without one day's notice. The resolution which
their Lordships had come to on Monday week was,
therefore, in effect, that whereas one standing order
pro-
vided that no Bill be passed through more than
stage in any day, and another standing order provided
that no standing order of the House be rescinded with-
out 24 hours' notice, be it therefore ordered that the
Lord Chancellor shall put the question three or four
times over in one sitting. He thought that a rather ra er
ab-
surd
non sequitur to arrive at, and as there could be no
doubt but that it might be necessary to pass a measure
No
through all its stages at a single
sittling, he was of opi-
nion that the standing orderought not to be
continued. In 1794 Mr. Pitt passed 0
his 4
measure through
al! its stages in a single day; and again, when the
mutiny broke out in 1798, a similar course was adopted.
Again, in 1803, when the news arrived of the massacre
of Lord Kilwarden in Dublin, a Bill similar to that
lately adopted by their Lordships was.passed through all
its stages, in both Houses of Parliament, in a single
night. If the Government had .4sisked their Lordships
to adjourn for one hour on Saturday, until the Bill had
passed through the other House. of Parliament, and it'
they had adopted the precaution of having the Court in
town, the measure might have been sent over to Dublin
on Saturday night, and thus certain disaffected persons
might have been arrested before they could hare had
time to leave the city. Having thus directed the atten-
tion of their Lordships and of the Government to these
topics, and more especially to the necessity of suppress-
ing the club organization, and with a cordial hope that
they would hear no more for the present of rebellion in
Ireland, he would beg to move for the production of the
papers to which he had already alluded.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of WICKLOW said, that although
counties had been proclaimed, it did not follow is
were disturbed. He could answer for O-
which he was connected as being trP•

been put down by the police, who were Irish, and com-
posed of Roman Catholics and Protevants, proving that
the Irish thanselvt.s were ready and able to put down
the insurrection.

'rho Marquis of NSDO aid he would not
follow the Noble and Learned Lord (t3roughaw) through
the details into which he entered ; he should content
himself by his concurrence in the observations he made
with regard to colonization. He wou'd add, although
the insurrection had been brought to such a favourable
result, they would not permit aey cessation of
the precautionary and repressive measures they
had already adopted.—(Hear, hear.) It was no
wclear to all that the parties who excited this in-
surrection were powerless for good, and they were un li
-
able to effect the object they aimed at—the establish-
ment of a republic. Although they could not carry
their designs into effect, they might still be enabled to
effect much mischief. and he thought the Noble Lord
took a fair view of the present state of Ireland, when
he admonished the Government not to relax their effrrts
to prevent the recurrence of similar evil,. He toek that
opportunity to state that the Government were enabled
to effect what had been accomplished by an Act of Par-
liament conferring extraordinary powere but not more
extraordinary than the emergency requires'. It it was
found necessary during the present session of Parlia-
ment to explain an Act now in force, to suppress illegal
and secret associations, it might be worthy of considera-
tion whether it would not be advisable to introduce ad-
ditional clauses, the more eff.ctually to effect that ob-
ject. There was now a cessation of the opposition to the
Government. It was a source of satisfaction that the re-
sistance had been brought to such an issue as they re-
cently witnessed, which proved to all the world the false-
hood of the statements propagated, that disaffection
existed among the military, and that the allegations pat
forward by the disaffected, that the constabulary were
inbued with the spirit of disloyalty, had proved entirely
false. These charges had received a signal contradic-
tion in the conduct displayed by the one and the other.
Upon the police the firmest reliance might be placed,
which was a force composed of Roman Catholics and
Protestants, all of whom united in the performance of
their duty. With regard to the suggestion of the Noble
Lord (Lord Brougham) that the sittings of Parliament
should be continued, he did not think that necessary.
If affairs took a different turn from what they had every
reason to expect, it could be called together at a short no-
tice; he did not, however, consider it expedient to depart
from the usual course.

Lord DESART complained that repressive measures
had not been adopted at an earlier period to suppress se-
dition. At a meeting which was held in Kilkenny three
of the speakers were magistrates, who used very violent
language. Doctor Kitne, one of them, stated distinctly
that they should obtain repeal by force if necessary. He
(Lord Desart) communicated to Lord Clarendon that
fact, but notwithstanding he continthil to remain in the
commission of the peace. This party was now in prison
as a felon.

The Duke of WELLINGTON said it was now de-
clared on all sides that there was an armed resistance to
the law, although it had been stated a fortnight ago
there would be no rebellion. It had now broken
out, and was suppressed by the police, whose con-
duct was worthy of all praise. It appeared, how-
ever, from the admission of every one who had
spoken, that a conspiracy existed throughout all Ireland,
and that secret clubs had been formed, bound together
by a secret combination, trained in some degree to
arms, and connected together in opposition to the
Government. They required still the attention of Go-
vernment, which should continue in a position to resist
whatever might result from the opposition and resistance
of these bodies, which were under the direction of those
who fomented and caused the outbreak which was so
easily put down. They should now consider what fur-
ther measures wero necessary to prevent the recurrence
of such evils in future, and also the repression of similar
conspiracies which caused this country to make such
preparations to put it do An. He hoped they would re
pose that confidence in the Government that they would
take all the precautions and adopt the necessary mea-
sures to prevent the recurrence of such evils.
Lord MONTEAGLE said the forbearance of the Go-
verument had the effect of entitling them to their con-
fidence when they might ask for further powers. Ile
agreed with the Noble Earl (Earl Wicklow) that the
reason why the Act had been extends d to the county
Wicklow was to prevent arms being conveyed to that
county; but the Act was not intended for that purpose,
and proved that the Arms Act was inefficient. The
most effectual preventive was to disarm the people, and
for that purpose they should make an efficient Arms
Act for the permanent law of the country. He entirely
concurred in the praises which had been bestowed upon
the police; but they should recollect they were sup-
ported by the military, and he therefore hoped the Go-
vernment would continue to keep up an efficient force
of the military. It was said the rebellion was at an
end, they should not, however, treat the outbreak too
lightly.
The returns were then ordered.
NORTH WALES RAILWAY.

Lord MONTEAGLE moved for some unopposed re-
turns, showing the manner in which the funds raised by
the North Wales Railway had been invested.
Agreed to.
IRISH SAVINGS' BANKS.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE hid upon the table
certain correspondence which had taken place with re-
spect to the Irish savings' banks.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. August 3.
FARMERS' ESTATE SOCIETY (IRELAND) BILL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. P. SCROPE moved, on the consideration of
clause 14, to substitute ten for thirty acres as the
minimum the of lots to be sold to the company.
Colonel 'THOMPSON seconded the motion. He be
lieved that the present was a most apt occasion to prove
that the Imperial Parliament could du good fur the poor
of Ireland.

Mr. GROGAN opposed the amendment of the Hon.
Member for Stroud. lie thought the Bill in many of Its
provisions was calculated to benefit Ireland.
Mr. CLEMENTS supported the clause, and opposed
the amendment.

Mr. STAFFORD supported the Bill, and contended
that if the measure became law a new class of yeoman
would be created, who would be of the greatest aervice
to their country. He differed with the opinion put
forward by the Honourable and Gallant Member for
Bradford, as stated by him to-day, and also as published
under his name in the Evening Sun of yesterday.
Mr. WCULLAGH supported the amendment of the
Hon. Member for Stroud.

Mr. GLADSTONE opposed the amendment, believing
that it would be fatal to the value of th. Bill.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority

52
-38

The report was then brought up and received.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS' COURT BILL.
This Bill went through Committee. Report to-morrow
at twelve o'clock.
PAYMASTERS' OFFICES BILL.

The report was received.
HIGHWAY RATES BILL.
Report brought up.
CHURCHES' BILL.
This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed to-morrow.
The House then adjourned till Five o'clock.

The House resumed at Five o'clock.
Mr. OSBORNE presented a petition praying the
House to promote emigration to South Australia.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE gave notice of his, intention to
move amendments in the Poor-law Union Charges Bill.
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