The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-11 00:00:00

the country, and that they are now fifty per
cent. worse than they were twenty years ago."
Nothing, said he, can equal their wretched-
ness. On being asked what was the cause of their
wretchedness, he said that commodities were so reduced
in price, that they were not enabled to pay their rents
in consequence. They lived in such a state that it could
hardly be believed. They had no bedsteads; they lay generally
on a small quantity of straw, with no eovei ing over them.
Here a Member made an observation which we understood to
be—Did he (Levi Clements) believe those statements? To
which the Nolele Lord replied, that he could confirm every
single statement that was made. He saw a mother with her
four children lying on a floor with nothing but a thin rug to
cover them. He had witnessed scenes of wretchedness and dis-
tress which required thestrongest nerves to be enabled to endure.
The Noble Lord continued to read from the report before him,
—"Many of the people would be disposed to emigrate if means
were given them, the married as well as the unmarried." He
then proceeded—Now that was a lamentable state of things;
and he should say that he felt perfectly satisfied of the truth of
every statement made in the report. Since he came to know
the country, there scarcely passed a summer that great distress
did not prevail. In the month of May last an extensive failure
expectedcwoausntes sn . h
u;
and
ave h
bcuetnfoinr
athsetacteouonftythLeeiantroimst
aw ful d
, the a
1 st re i S.
So constant had these failures become, that additional ground
had to be broken in the last year; and it was difficult to ascer-
tain what quantity of ground was brought into cultivation. The
Commission appointed by her Majesty to inquire into the state
of the potato crop, he was happy to state, had one good object,
namely, that it forewarned the people, and showed them that
they had only to depend on themselves, and not on neigh-
bouring counties for assistance. In many instances those who
could afford to do so laid in large stocks of eatmeal ; but
how many thousands of the poorer classes were there
who could not afford to provide themselves with that article.—
( Hear, hear.) These were awful considerations ; and he
might then inquire what was the good of protection to agricul-
ture ?—( Hear, hear.) Had it been of the s!ightest service
to the farmers, or had it provided food for the people ?—( Hear. )
Had it prevented the agricultural labourer from standing idle
in the markets, as had been before asked by an Honourable
Member, the Member for Northamptonshire ?—( Hear, hear.)
To give the House a more concise idea of the state of the peo-
ple of Ireland, he would read the opinions of the trustees of a
lease fund in one part of Ireland. The Noble Lord then read
several documents to the effect, that there were several thou-
sands living in the most wretched hovels without the means of
procuring food for themselves or their families. There were
no less than 23,123 acres in the occupation of persons who
could not pay any rent. He had been led to make these in-
quiries, end he now begged to refer them to the consideration
of the Right Hon. Baronet. His convictions on the subject
were very strong, and, as far as they were concerned, nothing
could be more fair or more just than the measure proposed by
the Right Hon. Baronet. In the inquiry which had been in-
stituted by Lord Devon es to the condition of the For in Ire-
land, a plan had been recommended which he (Lord Cle-
ments) thought could be partially adopted with advantage. It
provided that certain establishments should be made by her
Majesty's Government, for which the county should become
responsible. He should certainly, in that case, make no ob-
jection, provided that the whole charge was annually brought
before Parliament, and not be charged, as it at. present was,
on the Consolidated Fund. Ile would further earnestly pray
that, if any representations should be made from the magis-
tracy requesting an increase in the police force, the necessary
increase should be instantly made. lie had watched with
great anxiety the progress of the Bill, and be must say that,
in most instances, the principal requirements were provided
for. He now wished to call the attention of the House to the
administration of affairs in the courts of assizes. If her Ma-
jesty's Government had investigated the matter, they could not
but perceive that it was absolutely neces<ary for the security
of life and property that the courts of assizes should be placed
on a firmer basis. He would propose that efficient Crown
officers should be appointed, who, from their abilities and
standing in their profession, would be able to perform their
duties in a proper manner, Many a criminal has escaped
punishment in consequence of the ignorance or weakness of the
Crown counsel. This was a shocking state of things. He
(Lord Clements) knew personally of oue instance wherein the
Crown council was unable to reply to a question of the
judge, as to the particular Act under which a certain
indictment was framed, arid the prisoner, in consequence
escaped. He looked upon the Crown counsel as holding his
office for the general protection of society, and if he were unable
to perform his duties properly, society was in a measure unpro-
tected. It was impossible for one Crown counsel to attend in
a satisfactory manner to the business of an entire circuit. One
officer was not sufficient, and he trusted the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet would take into consideration the alteration he bad sug-
gested. He would beg, at the same time, while on this sub •
ject, to call the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet, if it was
in his power, as he was sure it was in his inclination, to contri-
bute some plan of relief of the agricultural population
from the local taxation under which they laboured.
From a return which he held in his hand it appeared that the
taxation was most unequally distributed, and in many instances
it fell directly upon the poorer classes. In the agricultural
districts taxation was very severely felt, especially in a time of
famine and distress. He (Lord Clements) was particularly
anxious to press en the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet
the charges which had been brought against the Irish poor, as
to their antipathy to the poor-houses. He was perfectly ready
to admit that much strong feeling existed on this subject. The
poor-houses were not conducted in a proper manner ; much
reform was needed, and it would, perhaps, be advisable to
conduct their management in a different form. In
doing this, however, many difficulties would have to be
encountered and overcome. The funds for there alterations
existed in various sources in Ireland, which-might easily be
made available. From a return of the Irish Reductive Loan
Fund to December, 1844, there appeared a revenue of 9,9001.,
which could be applied for the purposes at which he had
hinted. The Noble Lord then adduced various other sources
whence a sufficient revenue could be obtained, and went on to
observe that at a time similar to the present a sum of 300,000/.
had been subscribed from various parts cf the world to relieve
the wants of the poor in Ireland. He would entreat the
Right Honourable Baronet to see to the proper ap-
plication of the funds which he (Lord Clements) had
shewn might be made available. There were numerous socie-
ties in Ireland, which he believed, if the house were to appoint
a committee to inquire into, could be rendered of great benefit
to the country. He would not detain the House any longer
than to observe that he should vote for the measure which the
Right Hon. Baronet had brought forward. ( Some confusion
and much laughter occurred in the House at the conclusion of
Lord Clements'speecb, in consequence of several Hon. Members
essaying to speak before the Noble Lord had quite fini'hed.)
The Marquis of GRANBY believed that the Right Hon.
Baronet had been actuated by a feeling of the most candid nature
in introducing the present measure. He would, however, say
at the same time, that if the Right Honourable Gentleman
had entertained his opinions of 1841, he would have proposed
this measure to the House with all the energy and talent he
possessed, and not with the authority of a petitioner. As far
as was known of the feelings of the people of the country, those
feelings were in favour of the proposed measure. He had some
difficulty in dealing with the matter, because the arguments
are so various in their different bearings and application.
The argument which appeared to prevail the strongest
in the country was, that the labourer, in case of
a repeal of the corn-laws, would be supplied with
cheaper bread. If it was true that the labourer, in case of
the repeal of the law were enabled to buy his bread cheaper,
there was some shadow of reason in supposing that the corn-
laws were unnecessary. But that was not the question. The
question was, supposing that the corn-laws are repealed, would
the labourer be able to eat more bread than he does under
the present laws.—( Hear.) They had been told that an ex-
perience of three years fully justified the alterations which had
been proposed to the House. He would admit that three
year's experience might be sufficient to test the eligibility of
remitting protection, with one or two exceptions, on general
articles of import, but a great question like that of the corn-
laws, involving the consideration of so many arid so important
interests ought not to be tested by an experience of so limited
a period as a , few years. The arguments of the Anti-Corn-
law League were as though they should say, " We want to
put a shilling into every roan's pocket, by taking two shillings
out of the pocket of every farmer."—( Hear, hear.) Supposing
the agriculturists of this country to be driven out of the market
—was it to he supposed that foreigners would allow prices to
continue low in this country? It was absurd to suppose that
our foreign trade would be extended by the repeal of the corn-
laws. But even supposing that such an effect would
be produced by such a cause, let them consider that
the home consumption of our manufacturers amounted
to 150,000,0001. a year, while the exports were only
51n0t,e0r0e0s,t to toooe,neafintd
the
euslmd
aillter ? It was on thesethenbewisetoinjurgerothuendsa
larger
he should feel it his duty to oppose the measure of the Govern-
ment, and to support that system which had produced the
greatness, the wealth, and the independence of this country.
He would beg of those Hon. Gentlemen around him,
who in-
tended tended to support the Government, to pause before they
plunged into the vortex of revolution. It might be said that
protection was doomed, but his answer was that protection
was just.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that posterity would
thank those who hail struggled in the cause of protection.
Mr. GREGORY would declare at once that it was his in-
tention to Rive his support to the measure. Three years age
a Right Hon. Gentleman had declared that the principles of
free trade were the principles of eommon sense. He confessed
that he was struck with these words.—(Laughter.) The more
he had reflected the more he believed that those words
were the words of truth. On these grounds he had supported
his Hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead last year, on his
motion for the introduction of Australian corn. lie however
confessed that ha did not think that a repeal of the corn-laws
was so near. He had thought that it would have been better
to impose a small duty on corn for revenue purposes, and a
proposition of that sort would have his support. The present
measure, however, had only come a little earlier than he might
have anticipated, but that was no reason for his refusing it his
support. He believed that agriculture had flourished not
through protection but in spite of protection. It had been
said that if this Bill were to pass, from that moment they
would become dependent upon foreigners. lie believed this to
be a fallacious argument. Were they not in all times of scarcity
indebted to the foreigner for supplies ? It was absurd to say
that this measure was a concession to agitation. The Right
Hon. Baronet might have had a large majority in favor of pro-
tection if be had appealed to the country ; and on the other
hand the present measure could not be carried but by the as-
sistance of the Right Hon. Gentleman. How then could this
be considered a concession to agitation ? It had been said by
the Hon. Member for Inverness that the effect of this measure
would be to throw land out of cultivation ; but he confessed
past experience had not proved this, for on looking to the re •
turns, he found that when the remunerating price of wheat
was fixed at the lowest figure, the consumption of
the country had greatly Increased. In 1815 the
remunerating price was fixed at 805. per querter ; in 1827,
655.; and in 1842, 565.; and the average for the three years
ending 1848 had been 525. Now what had been the sales of
wheat in the country markets during these periods'? In 1839,
the sales in the country markets were 3,174,680 quarters ; in
1842, they were 4,900,284; and in the year 1845, they were
refutingprice, c e
a,
6,470,460 quarters; and yet, with so great a reduction in the
average
r athueinceonntsuthmapttiaosn doubled,heaodrnmhoerceamtheaenheapev
lland
d
fellthus
out of cultivation.—(Hear, hear.) He wished now to say a few words with regard to Ireland, where the greatest appre-
hensions prevailed amongst the landed interest that this measure
were entirelyy uVethem ; but, in his opinion, their ap-
prehensionswould bring
without foundation. The commer-
cial prosperity of Ireland, and
fret,
there
agricultural prosperity of
e47heexnisted preciselyan equally
brisk
Ireland were identical
had a brisk
pulsation in both interests. When
demand for manufactures the
demand for agricultural producey; had
they
could
peasant he would prefer fresh inlets for theorecohmemeernee andlrish
fresh markets her the industry of the country to all the
pro-
tection which the utmost stretch of a monopolising min ld
suggest.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Now he had taken the
greatest pains to ascertain the true bearing of this question,
and he found that the greatest apprehension prevailed amongst
those who traded in oats, live cattle, salt pork, butter, bacon and
mutton, which were the staple exports of Ireland. Now, with
regard to oats, the remunerative price was fixed at 9s. 6d. per
barrel of 14 stone, and he denied that the foreigner could un-
dersell them at this price.—( Hear, hear.) In support of this
opinion he would quote the price of oats at the principal places
of foreign export, namely, St. Petersburgh, Danzic, Hamburg,
and Elsinore. Now, in Hamburgh the price of oats varied
from 11s. to 16s. per quarter, and the freight of the same
article was from 2s. 6d. to ss. In Elsinore the price was from
12s. to 155., and freight from 3s. 6d. to 55. In Danzic the
price was 122 e., and the freight was 36. 6d. to

4s. and at St. Petersburgh the price was 12s. 3d.,
and the freight 4s. tiWith these prices ho could
not see what chance the foreigner had of underselling the home
producer. But let them see what bad been the amount of
imports since the present tariff had come into ol•eration. Take
the period from the 29th of April, 1842, to the 4th of January,
1845, and it would be found that 518,620 quarters of foreign
and colonial oats were imported into this country at a duty of
Is. 6d. per quarter, while, in the same time, Ireland sent
5,322,637 quarters.—( Hear, hear.) With these figures and
these calculations, derived from men who had endeavoured to
collect the best information on the subject, and whosa motives
for doing so could not for a single moment be cal'ed in ques-
tion. before them, how could the House hesitate in the course
they ought to adopt. The same results were shown by the re-
turns relating to the other articles he had enumerated; and he,
for one, entreated the landed interest of Ireland to dismiss from
their minds the foolish apprehension that the measure of the
' Government would prove destructive to their interests.
The Hon. Gentleman, after some further remarks, which were
wholly inaudible in the reporters' gallery, sat down amidst
the cheers of the greater part of the Hon. Members on the
Ministerial benches.

Nearly a dozen Hon. Members on the Ministerial side rose
simultaneously to address the House at the conclusion of Mr.
Gregory's speech, but there being loud cries for " Brooke,"
Lord BROOKE accordingly rose, and said that he fully
anticipated that the honest expressions of a man of unbias=ed
opinions, and the representative of a large constituency would
have their due weight with the House—( Hear, hear)— and
with those feelings it was that he rose, not to enter iuto aily
lengthened detail upon this most difficult question, but merely
to glance at the general features of it, to state in fact the
reasons which had induced him to give a vote on this occasion.
He deeply regretted the course which had been taken by
many of the Right Hon. Members of the Government on this
question.--( Hear, bear ) He could assure the House
that nothing wou'd have given bins greater satis-
faction than to have been able to tender his
most hearty support to the present measure of the Right Hon.
Baronet—( Hear, hear)—but the difference which had taken
place in the views of the Right Hon. Baronet had induced him
to withhold his support on the present occasion.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Lord Brooke) felt convinced that that change was cha-
racterised by straightforwardness—( Hear, hear)—but yet it
had been of such a nature as not to satisfy him of its cor-
reetness.—(llear, hear.) Although he was willing to give
every credit to the Right Hon. Baronet, and to those who
supported him, he did feel and think that many of his sup-
porters could not lay claim to that straightforwardness of ac-
tion which the Right Hon. Baronet had adopted —(Cheers
crime the Ministerial side of the House.) The Right Hon.
Baronet for several years past had been changing his
pies, but he had taken care to reap from his own party, and
from that House the fruits of those changes.—(Loud
cheers.) Those who had followed him in that varying
course. had followed him suddenly ; he might almost say
miraculously—(Loud laughter and cheers)—and the House
might be almost at a loss to conceive bow the Right lion. Baronet
had induced so many lion. Members so suddenly to change
their opinions, so as to chime with his own. Had they not
heard the speech last night of the Noble Lord the Member for
Liverpool ?—( Cheers and laughter.) The reasons of their sud-
den change, as stated by that Noble Lord, were because, if they
did not approve of the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet,
they would lose the benefit of his high talent and of his
great genius in conducting the Government of this country.—
( Hear.) But he (Lord Brooke) felt that if a man was con-
vinced that a measure, which might be brought before the
House was injurious or hurtful to the country, no personal or
other consideration ought to induce that man to vote for such a
measure contrary to the pledges which he had given to his con-
stituents.—(Cheers.) The only reason that he could discover
why Hon. Members on that (the Ministerial) side of the
House followed the Right Hon. Baronet, was because they
were afraid of a dissolution of Parliament. Now they all
knew that when a man arrived at a great age he lost
his faculties— (Great laughter)—his memory failed him
—(Continued lenghter)—and they had at the present moment
a fine example of memory failing men.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) They found Hon. Members in this Parliament
forgetting the pledges which they have given in their youth
and manhood, and sinking in the decrepitude of old age.—
( Laughter.) In that state they were called upon by the
Right Hon. Baronet to make their will.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) They were called upon to sign away their property
land their possessions.—( Hear, hear.) They were called upon
to sign away their rights and privileges to foreigners and
aliens. He would not say that the course of the Right Hon.
Baronet would be so tamely consented to by a new Parliament.
—(Hear.) He felt that a Parliament returned fresh from the
country would not be so easily led by the Prime Minister of
the Crown.—( Hear, hear.) If famine had beers overhanging
this country, there might then have been better reason for the
introduction of the present measure, but such was not the case.
If it had been so, he would most willingly have given the Right
Hon. Baronet his cordial support.—( Hear, hear.) But he
could not see any such danger as a famine befalling this
country. The apprehended evil arising from the failure in the
potato crop would be but casual, and it was also an evil which
might have been remedied by the temporary opening of the
ts.—( Hear, hear.) The House would find that great
reductions had been recently made in the duties on
different articles included in the tariff, and the conse-
quence
was a great increase in the importation of
those articles. Now, when corn was admitted free of
duty into this country, he felt convinced that native industry
would be materially injured unless our exports were equal to,
if not greater, than the imports from abroad. There had
been another subject brought before the House in the discus-
sion of this question, and that was the subject of the cultiva-
tion of the land. The Hon. Member who seconded the Ad-
dress said, that there was no limitation to the resources of this
country. He (Lord Brooke) was aware that there were great
portions of the land of this country which were not culti-
vated and left utterly unimproved; but he could not believe
that that want of cultivation was so extensive as stated by the
Hon. Member. He could not properly understand the Right
for,. Gentleman, the Secretary for War, when he stated that
there was no country which could successfully compete
with this country. From the north of Europe,
across France and Spain, and the whole of the
other countries on all sides of Europe, if this measure were
passed, we should be most successfully competed with.—(Hear,
hear.) This country would then be in a most degrading posi-
tion ; we should be left to the generosity of foreigners, and that
he conceived would be a situation which no Englishman could
wish to see this country placed in.—(Cheers.) The Right
Hon. Baronet had raid that this measure was one, not of justice,
but of policy, and a matter which might be settled by compen-
sation. The only mention which he could find of remunera-
tion in the letter of the Noble Lord the Member for London to
the citizens of London, was the adjustment which would follow
the removal of agricultural protection. What that remunera-
tion was to be, he (Lord Brooke) could not see. As a Mem-
ber who was prepared to vote in favour of protection to agricul-
ture, he could not but deprecate the course of agitation which
had been pursued by the Members of the Anti-Corn-law League.
He felt that their aims and objects were far different from those
who were members of the association for the protection of
British industry.—(Hear.) The object of the Anti-Corn-
law Leaguers was to pull down and destroy.—(Cheers.)
Whilst that of the protectionists was to conserve. If any one
looked to the conduct of the League they would find that
their measures were not in accordance with honesty and strict
justice. He would not adduce particular cases, but if it were
necessary, he was prepared to support his assertion. The way
in which the Anti-Corn-law League had sought to extend the
elective franchise was most unjustifiable.—(Loud cheers.) The
agents of the League objected to an honest man's vote on the
registration, and unless he came to defend his vote it was
struck off the registry.—( Hear.) If a man, thereforeZdeter-
mined on defending his vote against the attempts of the League,
he was subjected to much expense, for which the revising bar-
rister was not empowered to allow him compensation.—
( Hear, hear.) He would therefore say, that the condnct
of the Anti-Corn-law League was such as no honest man
should sanction.—(Hear, hear.) There was one other ques-
tion to which he wished to allude before he sat down. The
Noble Lord the Member for the City of London, in his recent
letter to his constituents, had stated that the system of agri-
cultural I rotection had produced much mortality. A pam-
phlet had, however, been put into his (Lord Brooke's) hands
the previous day, which showed that the contrary was the
fact. It was there distinctly proved that the system of high
prices in corn tended to decrease the amount of mortality.—
( Hear, hear.) The compiler of that pamphlet had no returns,
but he took the averages; he commenced with the year 1780,
and carried down his calculations to 1830, and he divided that
period into ten portions. In the first period of tt n years,
when the price of corn was high, the amount of mor-
tality was 152 less than that of a corresponding period
when the price of corn was low ; in the next ten years it was
375; and in the third period 1,678; and down to 1809, the de-
crease in mortality in favour of high prices of corn, was 2,831.
He had made these statements because he wished to show that
he was about to give his vote on the question conseientiously.
As the representative of a large constituency, he could not give
a silent vote, and he would resume his seat in the belief and
hope that be had honestly done his duty.—(Cheers.)
Lord WORSLEY could assure the Noble Lord, who last
spoke, that he was not aware that he was a new Member, or
he would instantly have given up. He (Lord Wortley) was
anxious to address the House upon the subject now under con-
sideration. It was a question that had frequently
been brought before their notice, but it had never
assumed such a shape as it had done at the present time.
What was the actual state of the case? It was now brought
forward and supported by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of her Majes:y s Government upon grounds of expediency.
He did not think they had brought forward the measure because
they thought it right in itself, but on account of the peculiar
situation of the country. The present Government had been
elected in 1841, as the farmer's friend, and at the period of that
general election there were no placards so prominent or nume-
rous as " Peel, the Farmer's Friend. "—( Hear, hear.) He
well remembered the arguments used by Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite when the subject of the total repeal of the corn-laws was
brought forward on a former occasion. It was then that they
stated that the landed proprietors were not to be frightened out
of their propriety by claims of a delusive character. The
Noble Lord proceeded to read some extracts from the speeches
of Sir R. Peel and Sir J. Graham on the subject of protec-
tion in the year 1841, the reading of which caused consider-
able laughter and cheering from both sides of the House. The
Noble Lord went on to state that many Hon Members had
gained their seats in that House by reason of their strenuous
opposition to any change in the corn-laws. What had been
the result? In 1842, the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed
some considerable modification in the then existing corn-laws,
and he• now came down to the House under the impression
that he still had a right to go on in that direction, and there-
fore proposed the present measure, assuring the Hone
at the same time, that he was encouraged to do so by
the encouragement he had met with on former occasions.
When the question of a total repeal of the corn-laws was
brought forward, three years ago, this measure was success-
fully opposed by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. Upon that occa-
sion there was no compensation offered to the landed proprie-
tors for the total repeal of the corn-laws. The Right Hon.
Baronet might perhaps say, in extenuation, that now he was
prepared with a measure for the relief of the burdens which
pressed upon agriculture. The Noble Lord did not think the
present measure was likely to produce a permanent settlement
of the question. Before the three years would have elapsed,
there would be a general election ; and he believed that the
farmers of England, who had been told that it was not dis-
creditable to tear a total repeal of the corn-laws, would
upon that occasion ask their Members to endeavour
to obtain for them a revision of the laws affecting the im-
portation
hrfbrhsooaot
nteavtplhni eir
neawri
temnj
:fat
urmooees
esroryetensutinh-ctstwtleeheroa.
aaodewf
rdudbahtel
Bhdyo,
et epoyhhtueeehews country
sephucl
nnaheßr
ototi rmaitt :teal
itty
nhi
‘fssrtHoiutehoeitstonmemt
stse:etoudwenhrG.rhdpe keepromon,fwoh,
tiaftl
surprising
ehhanhgmeel
teinavayi
portation of foreign corn. He thought it unwise for the
threeen%veoidynu:l
years
thehrsheeasli
aahoilitedh
questionect dor
tnshuacstho country
the languagelately,ss y tat
nha
des
samel uHonourable
timeu r ah, that
Baronetthere wasshosuulcdh danger to be apprehended
office to out those very measures?— ( Hear.) take
easit, under sucheagrrht
cir-
cumstances, surprising that the Governmentl should find on this
consideredaide of the
tHousehat
the
eup(Trorvteernrs
word the
Government had healgricultural interest who
would not say one hard against deceived
k,,ht Ho them
G?e t He
e
Gentle-
man, but this he might be allowed to say, that it wans.a serious
thing for a person to be in the position of the Right Hon.
Barenet.--( Hear, hear.) He at one time said that the
corn- laws were permanently settled, and that so late as the
year 1842; but he now came down to the House to tell
them it was necessary to do a great deal more. He (Lord
W.) could not think that because there was temporary distress
in the country, that the corn-laws ought to be repealed....- I

(Hear, hear.) The Government may attempt to carry the
measure, but, as he said before, it would never he considered a
settlement of it by the farmers and landowners of this country.
(Hear, bear.) In 1842 no one expected—no party whatever
expecled, that they would propose an alteration again of those
laws in 1845. In the year 1842, the Right Honourable Baronet
the Secretary fur the Home Department. advocated protection
to the agriculturists of this country, but he (Lord Worsley)
did not know how he could reconcile his arguments then with
the arguments which ho was using now.—( Hear, hear.)
He did not know of any one who had spoken out
so strongly as the Member for Canterbury against any altera-
tion of the corn-laws, and yet he had latterly taken office under
the Right Hon. Baronet. He said in 1842, that if the Govern-
ment took the duty off corn, the property would be sacrificed of
one-third of the population, and that such an act would be the
scheme of a Minister of a party, hut could never be the mea-
sure of the Minister of a nation.--( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
It did appear to him, that if the Ministry did propose such a
measure, there ought to be a dissolution in the first instance of
the present Parliament, that the constituencies by which they
were returned to office might again declare their sentiments.
Upon ordinary occasions, it was true, the Parliament wit=
elected fcr seven years, but when a subject came under it con-
sideration of such importance, he (Lord Worsley) considered
that the country ought to be appealed to. After this Parlia-
ment was elected an eight shilling duty was proposed, but un
the present occasion it was a question with them of cern-laws or
no corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) There could he no doubt n hat-
ever ti.at there ought to be no alteration in the corn-laws before
the constituencies of the couetry were appealed to. He (Lord
Worsley) believed that if there was a dissolution now, some in
their places in that House would not occupy them long.—
( Hear, hear.) He did not know whether it was
in the recollection of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
the Secretary for the Colonies (who for some reason unknown
to him was not in his place—(A laugh)—in that House,) that
he stated in the year 1842, that the Parliament was pledged to
protection. Here the Noble Lord read the speech of the
Secretary far the Colonies, as reported in Hansard, on the sub -
je,:t of the corn-laws. '1 he country fairly ask, as many have
altered their opinions in this House, that an opportunity may
be afforded the constituencies to see whether they had not
altered their opinions also.—(Cheers.) He (Lord Worsley)
had presented no fewer than fifty or sixty petitions against any
alteration in the corn-laws, and also a petition praying that that
House would place no confideace in her Majesty' Government.
lie was never more surprised than on seeing the names of in-
dividuals to these petitions who refused him (Lord Worsley)
their support, because he refused to place confidence in her
Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear.) But it did seem to
him (Lord Worsley) extraordinary that these changes of her
Majesty's Government were never suspected by any of their
supporters. The Noble Lord the Member for the City of
London (Russell) gave them warning in his answer to an
when he said, that " if the people
nld prevent them from repealing the
awdedr ree
us sn ft
tr
eo
dm, n Plymouth,
umwoeurt ht:o
corn-laws."—(Hear, hear.) (Here the Noble Lord (Worsley)
read the answer of Lord John Russell to the
inhabitants of Plymouth, wherein he alludes to the corn-laws.)
His Noble Friend gave that warning to many opposite, but
they did not profit by it, but on the contrary they still sup-
ported her Majesty's Government. He hoped the Right Hon.
Baronet opposite would listen to the advice of some of his
supporters, and take the sense of the country on his
measures.— (Hear, hear.) At present there was an oppor-
tunity for the Irish producer to send over their supplies of
corn to this country, but if the present measure passed into a
I law, they would not make so much of their land as now.—( Hear,
hear.) It was his intention to support the alteration proposed
by the Right Hon. Baronet, with respect to timber, for when
the landlord did not find the tenant timber, it was difficult for
them to get good timber for trade. lie ( Lord Worsley) be-
lieved it would be for the advantage of the country generally
to have cheap timber, but he believed it would be against the
interest of the country generally to have any alteration in the
corn laws, and he would consequently oppose that part of the
Ministerial measure.—( Cheers.) '
Sir JAMES GRAHAM observed that he should be sorry
if this question should be diverted into a mere political one,
for he agreed with the Noble Lord that this was a question
which should be regarded as being of the utmost national im-
portance—( Hear, hear)—and he hoped that it might not,
therefore, be treated as an occasion for venting personalities.
—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Northampton •
shire had challenged the Government, and said
that, if they had changed their opinions, let
them avow it. He would take up that challenge,
and he would explicitly say that he had changed his opinions;
and with that avowal he would dispose of all the speeches
which had been made on both sides of the House.--t Loud
and continued cheering.) And he would only ask their pa-
tience until he pointed out the reasons for that change.—
( Hear, hear.) He would, however, before he proceeded to
that part of his subject, beg their attention to the tests by
which public opinion ought to be guided respecting the changes
of Honourable Gentlemen. And he would say that, in
the case of a particular Member, the question stifled(' be
asked, does the change of opinion promote his personal in-
fluence ? He, pet haps, might be permitted, from the tone
which the debate bad taken, to glance at his own private
affairs.—(Hear, hear.) He could assure the House, that all
the influence he possessed was that only of a landlord, and
he could confidently say that in his position of a landlord,
he was exposed to as much risk by the passing of the present
measure—if it was injurio s--as any other landed pro-
prietor..---( Hear, hear.) Now, as a Minister of the
Crown, the question should be asked, does his change
of opinion increase his strength or consolidate his power?
Could there be a doubt, after the unhappy scenes which they
witnessed on the Ministerial side of the House for the last two
nights of the debate, that a Minister of vast talents; the leader
of a great party, whose confidence he possessed, bad risked
all—had, as it was said by a Noble Member, almost dissolved
that party, from the conduct which he, from a sense of duty, felt
himself bound to adopt.—(Loud cheers.) Had the Minister
then, by his change, acted unfairly towards his political adver-
saries? Ile felt bound to say not. He had tendered his re-
signation frankly to his Sovereign—that resignation was not ac-
cepted. He (Sir J. Graham) entirely concurred in that re-
signation, for it was his earnest wish that this mea-
sure should have been brought forward by the
Noble Lord on the opposite benches. He thought that
if it was so, he would have been more properly placed. After all
that had occurred, it would have been better—better for the
public—better for the public men —(Cheering from both sides
of the House.) Yea, be considered it would have been for the
public advantage that the present measure should not have been
proposed as the Government felt it their duty to propose it.
He was sure the Noble Lord would bear testimony to the truth
of his statement that he offered as a private Member of Parlia.
meat, to give his support to the measure as much as if he
was a member of the Government.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
(Lord John Russell bent his head in token of acquiescence).
Having disposed of these matters, which were personal to him-
self, he would answer the question hut by the Member for North-
amptonshire ; whether these measures were brought forward
merely because they thought it expedient? Now the Government
had brought it forward, not only because they thought it ex-
pedient, but because they thought it right and necessary for
the general interests of the country. —( Hear, hear.) It was
also observed that the time bad arrived when the question
should be finally settled; that settlement met his hearty con-
currence.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. 111tmber for North.
amptonshire put the question justly and fairly; he said the
point to be decided was, whether the abolition of the protec-
tive duties would be averse to the poor. The Noble
Lord the Member for Stamford put it on terms
equally distinct. He said, will the alteration in the corn-
law not only give cheap bread, but give a greater quantity of
cheap bread to the poor operative ?—(Hear.) He did dis-
tinctly say that was really the great question. Was the main-
tenance of the present corn-law most conducive to the interests
of the larger number of the community ? lie would read an
extract from a speech made by his Right lion. Friend in
1839, to which frequent reference had been made during that
debate. My Right Hon. Friend then stated " that he had
no hesitation in stating that if the then existing' corn-law
could be shown to be inconsistent mil the prosperity
of the agricultural labour, but also inconsistent with the ge-
neral interests of the country, the corn-laws ought to be re-
pealed."—( Hear.) He might, perhaps, be deemed presump-
tuous if he quoted a sentence which had also fallen from him-
self; but he might be permitted, when they considered the
course which had beers taken.—(Hear.) The Right Hon.
Baronet read an extract from his speech, in which he had
stated that, in his opinion, the prosperity of the agriculturist
very much depended en the public prosperity, and that
it would be expedient to gradually bring their
trade in corn to a nearer relationship wit their
manufacturing interest. He also then stated " that
he was not satisfied with the plan of setting up a separate in-
terest for the landlord from that of the farmer. He believed
that their prosperity would, on the main, be found to depend on
the welfare and comfort of the working classes, and upon the
abundance and cheapness of their food."—( Hear, hear.) With
regard to the harvest of last year it was of a most
peculiar character ; it was not deficient in quantity,
but in point of qua.ity it was of exceeding variety.
The alteration of the law in 1842 had a very adverse effect, as
far as regarded the averages, and his real opinion of the law of
1842 was, that it had the effect of rendering protection more
stringent than the antecedent law.—( Hear, hear.) That was
demonstrated by the three last harvests, during which the:privs
rose, and a duty of 14s. to 15s. followed un ter the sliding scale.
' A strange coincidence was pointed out by Adam Smith, and
which occurred from the year 1773 to 1792, when a great start
bad taken place in their commercial industry and manteac-
turing prosperity. The law, however, of 1815, was altered
five or six times.—(Hear.) Now, together with the imper-
fect operation of the sliding scale, which followed the recent
change, there was in addition the failure of the potato crop
throughout the United Kingdom. That was not confine I to
Ireland, as had been supposed by some. The failure extended
to the south of England, and he believed it was even greater
there than in'lreland. The working population there might not
be dependent so much on that article of food. But the failure
deprived them of a considerable portion of what they looked
forward to for their maintenance. In Scotland also the failure
existed to a very great extent. From the parochial returns
which they received on the subject, it appeared that one-third
of the potato crop was destroyed there as early as November
last. He would not go through the various details on the
subject, but from the report of Mr. Lindley and Mr. Playfair,
a great portion of the potato crop was destroyed ; and they also
recommended that an expedient should be adopted by which
one-eighth of the whole cress of the present year should be
kept for Reid year. Under these circumstances, last
autumn, while he was resident in the north of
England, it appeared to him that the question of the coming
scarcity, which it was apprehended would result in a famine in
Ireland, bore an indissoluble connexion with the existing corn-
laws.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, the Member for
Liverpool, said that he did not see that conuexion ; and the
Hon. Member for Northamptonshire had given expression to a
similar opinion.—(Hear, hear.) He would ask the House
then to be allowed to state the impressions which the cir-
cumstances he alluded to had caused in his mind,
and the reason of the connexion which he was of odinion they
bore to the question of agricultural protection.—( Hear, hear. )
It struck him that to apply the money of the public purse to
meet the calamity, was neither a statesmanlike, nor a prudent
mode of dealing with it. Some money lad been already
granted for that purpose ; and he greatly feared that more
would be necessary. He would ask, therefore, could any
ministry, with the responsibility of office, advise public money
to be expended for the purpose of enabling the great
bulk of the people to procure subsistence, while those laws
that had for their object the raring of the price of corn in an
artificial manner, should be left on the statute-book without
alteration ?—( Hear, hear.) Other persons might be bold
enough to propose such an appropriation from the public purse,
but he confessed that no power on earth, under such circum-
stances, could induce him to do so. He, therefore, stated to his
Right lion. Friend (Sir R. Peel) that he would at once sup-
port him in the susnernion of those restrictive laws, and he
was happy to find that such a suspension was strongly approved
of by a great many gentlemen on that (the Ministerial)
side of the House.--( Hear, hear, and laughter.) lie was
surelhat the landed gentry of England would not tolerate for
a moment the existence of such a state of things as was appre-
hended, when it could be greatly alleviated, if not entirely re-
moved, by the abolition of those protective laws. To propose
some small amendments in the existing laws, or some small
measure which would not materially affect their operation,
would be a course unworthy of the high character of
those gentlemen, and unworthy of the great emergency
which demanded an alteratier. Under such circumstances,
he ( Sir James Graham) saw the necessity not merely of so .
pending, but of abolishing the laws altogether. 1 t might be
asked, then, what reason he had to, e',a-L. .1 '
which he entertained in 1042, the time ,-,nsti the last altera-
tion had been made? He might be asked, was not his expe-
rience binet) that time, of the eperatiou of the *lnge, favour.

TILE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, FEBRUARI 115 i 84.6

PARMA 11 EN TA R Y BUSINESS.
(From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.)

MONDAY, FEB. 9.
The following Petitions for Railways were reported, and the Bills
ordered to he brought in ty the undernamed Ron. Members :
North Staffordshire (ilareeastle to Sandbach)—Mr. Adderley and
Mr. Ricardo.
Ashburton, Newton, and South Devon—Sir J. Buller, Mr. Gill, and

Mr. Matheson.
Blackburn and Preston—Mr. Patten, Mr. Feilden, and Mr. Hornby.
Irish Great Western —Mr. French and Mr. Itedington.
Liverpool, Ormskirk and Preston— Mr. Patten, .:qr. Chilon, Mr.

Entwisle, and Mr. Feilden.
North Kent—Mr. Him and sir. Smythe.
North Kent (City Extension)—Mr. Rice and Mr. Smythe.
York and North Midland (Whitby and Pickering Extension)—Mr.
0. Duncombe, Mr. A. Chapman, and Mr. Hudson.
London and South-Western (Epsom Branch)—Mr. Kemble and Sir

J. Easthope.
North Staffordshire (Churnet Valley Line)—Mr. As-Marley and Mr.
Ricardo.

The following Railway Bills were presented, read a Ant time, and
ordered to be read a second time : . _ _

London and South-Western (Hampton Court Branch)—" to enable
the London and South-Western Railway Company to make a Branch
Railway to Hampton Court Bridge, in the county of Surrey."
London and South-Western (London-bridge Extension)—" to
enable the London and South-Western Railway Company to extend
their Railway to the High-street, Southwark, and to the Thames,
near London-bridge, all in the county of Surrey."
London and South-Western (Chertsey and Egham Branch)—" to
enable the London and South-Western Railway Company to make a
Branch Railway to Chertsey and Egham, in the county of Surrey."
Blackburn, Chorley, and Liverpool—" for making a Railway from
the Blackburn, Damen, and Bolton Railway, to the Liverpool and
Bury Railway, with certain Branches therefrom, all in the county of
Lancaster, to be called The Blackburn, Chorley, and Liverpool
"
Staines and Richmond Junction—" for making a Railway front
Richmond to Staines, to be (failed The Staines and Richmond Junc-
tion Railway.'"

able to it ? He had to say, in reply to that, that his ex- Edinburgh, Leith, and Granton Amendment.
perience was not only not favourable, but directly the Reu,nyteer,,,ttJc, Donne,
and
ect Glasgow.
reverse ; and his experience since that time was a lamentable .1`
Great sxritn-I,oy,nS. oiti'll'florneasrtle,'Lino,ll:, and lan Junction.
one. Since that law passed the greatest dangers to the public Oxford, Coventry, and Burto.i.on-Trent.
safety and general tranquillity had resulted. He had the ex- Launceston and South Devon.
perience of great distress to bring forward as his reply, and as Eastern Counties (Lincoln to Milford).
the time was now passedehe might also add it was a time of the Leeds and Thirsk (St. Helen's Branch Deviation).
Leeds and Thusk (Nordt-Eastern Extension, Wath to Hartlepool)
most imminent danger. —( Hear, hear.) What were the cir-
Leeds and Think (linaresborough Branch Extension).
cumstances of the case? For about three weeks at the period Edinburgh and Glasgow and Scottish Central Amalgamation.
he referred to, there were assemblsd in different parts of the Mallow and Fermoy.
country immense masses of the people, wile under the influence Mankland and Kirtintillock.
of the want of employment—from a deficiency in the East and West of England Junction.
staple manufacture were meditating the mst dan-
Aberdeen, Banff, and Elgin.
WE.DNESDAY, FEB. 18.
gerous projects, and contributed very much to excite .
Horonry Bridge and Calder Railway.
Y>
feeling of universal alarm throughout the country.
FRIDAY. FEB. 20.
A few years ago her Majesty's Ministers were continually Dublin and Sandymount (Atmospheric)
called upon to use every exertion to keep the public peace;
and he could say, without fear of contradiction, that durirg
that period, when large masses of the people were going about
the streets, for three months the anxiety of himself and his
colleagues was greater than at any other period of the Admi-
nistration. All that anxiety was occasioned through the fear
of the public peace being broken. Now, that agitation was
occasioned by the scarcity of employment and the general
depression of trade.—(llear, hear.) It would be remem-
bered that during that turbulence high prices pre-
vailed. Ile had passed the Horse Guards for the last
twelve months with great satisfaction at finding the country so
quiet. —( Hear, hear, and laughter.) He was happy to say that
for some time the country had been in a perfect state of quiet,
rot withstanding the great scarcity in the supply of the com-
modities so necessary to ensure the content of the working po.
pulation. He had taken the returns of persons who had been
committed in the several counties for the last five years, and he
found that as the price of food had risen, so did crime increase
in proportion. He took Warwickshire, Gloucestershire, and
Cheshire. In the year 1840 there were committed 1,011; in
1841, 1,046 ; in 1842, 1,013 ; in 1843, 8,094 ; in 1844, 7,0€9;
making a reduction in favour of the periods when low prices
prevailed of 11 per cent. In Gloucestershire it
was 1,045, 1,236, 1,252, 929, making a reduction of 9 per cent.
In Cheshire it was 1,042, 943, 1,086, 1,118, 797, 688, making
a reduction in favour of low prices of 19 per cent. on the
whole. This was a proof that the lower the price of corn the
better provided were the people, and the more peaceable did
they conduct themselves. He was able to state, from informa-
tion which he had received, that wages did not rise with the
price of corn. —( Cries of " Hear, hear.") This should not be
the case. It was true that at times this case varied, but he
would contend that the price of corn had not always a favour-
able influence on the wages of the working clases. It ought to
be concurrent that wages should rise as corn advanced in price.
This he stated on the authority of Sir T. Waisham. He says
that as the price of corn rose, wagei invariably fell. —( Hear,
hear.) It was said that this country would not benefit by the
exchange of other countries for our manufactures, but
it must be admitted that such exchange must take place.
Now, directly or indirectly, there must be an exchange of
commodities between this country and foreign countries, and
the result would be an amount of mutual imports and exports,
thus extending the general sphere of their commerce. His
Noble Friend had dilated in very pathetic terms
upon the condition of the farmers of this country, whom he
supposed to be about to be expelled in consequence of
the operation of this law in its changed state.—( Cries of
" No, no.") He was now alluding to the speeeh of his Noble
Friend the Member for Liverpool. The Noble Lord had
stated that the result of this change would be to place the
tenant-farmer in such a position as to render him utterly
unable to continue his engagement to his landlord.—( Cries of
" No, no.") He would contend for it that he had beard ex-
pressions to that effect made use of by the Noble Lord from
the very spot on which he now stood. However, he ( Sir J.
Graham) had no apprehension whatever upon this subject.
The Hon. Member for Lincoln had spoken of the settlement
of this question as one of great importance, but he ( Sir J. mes
Graham) was of opinion that there was but one mode of
settling it. He would not now dwell upon the proceedings of
the meeting that had taken place in Wiltshire; he would pass
from it at once, and call the attention of the House to 'he sub-
ject now before it. There could be no doubt but that there
were many Members of that House who entertained a strung
opinion upon the question who had been obliged to change their
~pinion, by reason of their experience of the events of the last
three years, and he trusted that that experience had not been
thrown away.—( Hear, hear.) He was ready to admit that t:e
agreed with the Hun. Member for Durham, that the happiest
time that eser dawned upon England would be that period
which should witness the a 'justment of this question by mutual
understanding aid without any legislative measure, but such
an arrangement, he feared, was not to be hoped for. He was
glad to have read the sentiments of the Noble Lord
the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire upon
this question, and he could assure that Noble Lord that
he was happy again to see him in that House
after a short ass-ence, and under circumstances which enabled
him (Sir James Graham) to say that his Noble Friend had
given utteranc • to sentiments so much in accordance with his
own, but which he had endeavoured but feebly to give ex-
pression to.— ( Hear, hear.) Let the question at once be
settled, and he had no doubt the result would be the fullest
enjoyment of the advantages he expected, without any of the
jealousies or ill-feeling at which so much alarm had been ex-
pressed. He had not the least doubt but the landlords of the
country—and he now spoke as a hoellosd himself—would rot
have to make any great sacrifice ; but even if they had, he, for
one, would say, that he would rather make ten
times as great a sacrifice, than permit it to
be said that, by not doing so, he had contributed
to increase distress, or had not lent his aid to increase the
happiness of the great bulk of the community, and afford
sufficient food for the people.—(Cheers.) It had been ea d
by Hon. Members that the result of this measure would be that
a great party would be broken, that certain ties would be
severed, and that the Administration of the country would be
dismembered—( Hear, hear)—but he begged to tell the
House that in his conscience he believed that the result of this
proposition would be to save this great nation from misery,
anarchy, and ruin.—( Loud cheers.)
Lord CLIVE said he assured the House that he would not,
at that late hour of the night, attempt to trespass upon its
sttention but for a very short time ; but he woult beg leave to
say, that from the circumstances thathad occurred, it did ap-
pear to him, from the short time that had elapsed, it would
be impossible for the country to have had an oppor-
tunity of coming to a correct decision upon this question.
His Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary-at-War, stated his full
and sincere conviction in the speech which he delivered, and in
which he vindicated the course which he felt it his duty to
pursue. He had stated his conviction that, if it were shown
to the gentlemen of England interested in agricultural affairs
that by the abolition of the corn-laws they would be minister-
ing to the wants and necessities of their fellow-creatures, that
they would cheerfully accede to the adoption of such a mea-
sure. That was the ground on which he (the Noble Lord)
stood.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) If the
Government could show, as they stated they could, the
overwhelming necessity ; if they were at present impressed
with the conviction that their new plan was not as futile and
leaseless as their former, they would give the agriculturists of
the country an opportunity of proving whether or nut the matter
was conceded to the wants and necessities of their fellow-sub-
jects, or whether it had been forced upon them by the dexte-
rity of two discordant cabinets.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
He was aware that by a dissolution on the present question
great excitement would be engendered, and great strug-
gles between classes would follow ; but these evils,
bad as they were, would pass away, and would be less enduring
than the anarchy and confusion which he believed would ensue
from the course which her Majesty's Ministers were at present
pursuing, and which, he believed, would be far more pregnant
with evil.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) There-
fore, being apprehensive of such an evil, though many sur-
rounded the question, he should feel it his duty to vote for
the motion of the Hon. Member for Bristol.—(Cheers.) In
doing so he would have the satisfaction of experiencing,
when he should come before his constituents a different
reception from that with which the Right Honour-
able Baronet at the head of her Nlajesty's Government taunted
the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Edinburgh. in
the year 1840, that he had been deservedly treated by his clas-
sical constituents.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Several Hon. Gentlemen rose, but were met with loud cries
of " A•ljourn, adjourn," and " No, no," amid which
Sir R. PEEL rose, and was understood to say (the con-
fusion at the moment being very great) that he thought the
best course to be adopted was to adjourn the further considera-
tion of the question to Thursday.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. COLQUHOUN agreed entirely with the Right Hon.
Baronet, but he should at the same time say that if any Hon.
Gentleman wished to address the House, he thought he should
be beard.—(Loud cries of " Adjourn.")
The debate was then adjourned.
DRAINAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
The House went into Committee on the Drainage (Ireland)
Bill; and, after a few observations, clauses from 1 to :).0 were
agreed to.
The other clauses of the Bill were then agreed to, and the
House having resumed, the Chairman reported progress, and
the report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow (Thursday).
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at five minutes to One o'clock till Twelve
o'clock this day.

LAW LiTELLIGENCE.
HOUSE OF LORD.:;. Feb. 10.

THE CORPORATION UP GUIUCESTEN. V. 0.:1301:N AND SURMAN.

The House sat to-d ,y, at ten o'clock, for the purpt,sts of
herring the further arginnent in tilt. part-heard vi,peal wilt
respect to the will of Mr. J,ones W,:od, the 1:;t:: eminent
banker cf Gloucester. Ties Peers rittenthmee were the
Lord Chancellor, Lc (I.C- ttenna.n. anti Lord Carnpbell,
The arguments k cc inied their Lot dship- thew hole morning.