The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-28 00:00:00

TVIE SUN, LONDON, TITESnAY FAVVNING, JrLy 28, 1846.

creased supply of sugar to this country would render it im- would reimburse them for their capital. It had been said that
possible again to reduce the duties on sugar, but. in the presen evening, that if they refused this measure they deprived the
state of • htngs it 'could be madness to attempt to go beyond poor man of those luxuries which were almost necessaries of
what they had already done. His Noble Friend then came life. " Deprive him of the luxuries" were eords too poetical
to the lest topic, the encouragement of the slave-trade. It ifor the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He said it would not
was impossible not to admire and respect the opinions which i deprive any poor man of a single half-ounce of sugar; whereas
he gave on the subject ; nevertheless, harrowing as were the I the adoption of the measure would tinge his morning and his
deseriptiens of the s!ave trade Si now carried tin, and the treats evening meal with blonea— (Laughter. ) The measure encou-
tont they received, its Cteha, they had failee In showing that the raged elaecry, and he saw no reason why he should adopt it—
why, if he rould not do all the good he desired to do, he should
present tneeettre tereed to protente the slaves-trades—still mere
had they failed to slime that the free-labour rligar could be do all the evil which his neighbour might wish him to do.
brought at all to ecinpete with it. His Noble Frietid, anxious From the statement of his Noble Friend the Member for
that he should clear hiniself from the imputation of emote. Lynn, with regard to the horrors of the slave trade, the
raging the slave trade, had refused to sanction such a measure House would draw its own conclusions. Slave-traders' vessels
as the present. His Noble Friend abstained from the use of carry larger cargoes now than they did previous to the eman-
sugar grown by slaves, but yet he did not deny himself the use cipation. One American slaver had lately carried 1,500.
of other articles which were raised by slates. How he drew The Carolina landed 976 in Brazil, while another vessel had
the distinction he ( the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not made three voyages in thirteen months, landing in the Brazils
pretend to say, but he knew that the produce of slave labour 1,820 slaves in the thirteen months. When they considered
was used to a considerable extent in that House, and yet they that the first cost of these slaves was from eight to eighteen
opposed the present measure in order to escape the charge of dollars, while when they were landed in the Brazils they
using slave-grown goods. Copper, cotton, and other articles sold for 301, they could not wonder that the trade was
were slave produce, and they were extensively used. He carried on by men who neither loved their God nor feared
could show that in no way whatever was greater cruelty in- their fellow man.—( Hear, hear.) But were they, without
flirted on the -laves than in the production of copper, yet they any temptation, sitting at a distance of some thousands of miles
supported slave-produced copper from Cuba, and had eon- from the scene of those cruelties and horrors, deliberately to
siderably increased its import. In 1840 they imported give their sanction?—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that there
26,000 tone, and in 184 they imported 41,000 tons. would be found in that House, as well as in the country, those
Such is the effect if we take free labour sugar from the conti- who would not purchase the luxury of 20,000 additional
nental markets. The continental markets make up the defi- tons of supr at the price of so much misery as that which
ciency occasioned by the demands we make on it for free-grown must follow the passing of the Government measure, but that
produce by the importation of slave-grown sugar, so that while they would rather be content to pay a fractional sum more for
we carry on that trade we are in reality encouraging the slave their sugars for the purpose of encouraging the industry of
trade.—( Hear.) If we take free grown sugar from the conti- their own country, and discountenancing a vile and horrid
nental market, slave-grown sugar is certain to flow in, and traffic in human life and human misery.—( Hear, hear. )
thus we give an indirect encouragement to slavery. 'Whether, Under these circumstances it was needless for him to say with
therefore, we import directly slave grown sugar from where it what cordial satisfaction he concurred is the resolution of the
ie ;traduced; or free labour sugar froMthe continental market, Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, and with what ardent—he
the result is precisely the same—such was the tendency of the wished he could say sanguine—hope he looked for its ultimate
present system. After the experience of the last year, would any success, by the House discharging the highest duty of the
man doubt that slavery was not encouraged by the present country, and refusing to give any further sanction to a system
state of the law. If so, then they were guilty to the that was as injurious to man as it was dishonourable to corn-
fullest extent in the charge brought against them by merce.—( Hear, hear.)
the Noble Lord (the Frst Lord of the Treasury.) Were they, Lord SANDON did not quarrel with the Hon. Baronet who
therefore, on such slight grounds as had been stated, to adhere had just sat down for the views he took upon the question, and
to a principle which they could not carry into effect, and th s perhaps had that been the first occasion upon which it was
deprive the great body of the people of. this country of a cheap proposed to make a distinction in the sugar duties, he should
and necessary article of comfort ?—( Hear, hear.) The im- have been inclined to participate in them. But would the op-
practicable nature o' the present system, was admitted let all position which was then offered to the Government proposal
who had fully considered the question. He admitted that settle the matter? No, it certainly would not; for, after
many very honest. sincere, well meaning men were against the agreeing to the principle in 1841, of admitting slave-grown
proposition of her Majesty's Government, and he was wishful sugar on payment of a particular duty, they could not refuse to
to pay the greatest deference and respect to their opinions, but reconsider the amount of restriction to be placed upon the in-
he was boon tto observe that the sentiments of those parties troduction of sugar into this country, the produce of slave
were not participated in by many other parties who were as labour. In 1841 he Mok the liberty of expressing his doubt of
much opposed to negro slavery. Looking at the proceedings the expediency of the steps which the House then took ; but
of the Liverpool Anti-slavery Society, a mt.re rational and having taken these steps, lie .confessed, after consulting
practical view of the question had been taken. That some of the most experienced merchants in the country upon
society at least took a different view to that which had the subject, that the conclusion he had come to was, that they had
been taken by the Noble Lord ( Lord George Bentinck ),' already settled the question of the admissibility of slave grown
At a meeting which they had just held, they had agreed to re- sugar, a d it now only remained to be decided what were the
solutions to the effect that the measure now proposed by her best terms the country could admit it upon.—(Hear.) But
Majesty's Government was in harmony with the general prin- with regard to the encouragement which he offered to the
ciple, of commercial intercourse laid down by the late Adminis- slava trade by admitting Brazilian sugar, he had, following
tration, and that taken in eonjunc!ion with friendly negotia- the advice of Bacon, placed his opinions upon paper. He had
tions with of her powers, it was better calculated to lead to the thus ascertained facts to go upon, namely, that if" Java sugar
extinction of slavery than any other course.—( Hear, hear.) could be sold in this country at a price much less than slave
He entirely concurred with the view which this body had taken grown sugar, the latter would ,be taken to Hamhurgh,
of the question, as he believed the result would be eventually or sonic such a place, to make up for -he deficiency in the
to put down slavery, while the general interests of all other supply of the former that was created by the preference
earties would be improved. He would now say a few words which this country exhibited for sugar the produce of free la-
respecting the West Indian interest. He had been communi- boar.—( Hear, hear.) The condo-ion he had come to then
rated with many times by leading gentlemen connected wi'h was, that the attempt to draw a distinction between slave
that interest, and he must bear testimony to the temperate grown and free labour sugar was a fallacy, and this was one
and reasonable manner in which they have urged their claims. reason why he could not support the amendment of
alone would regret more than he would, if he thought the the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn.—( Hear. )
measure proposed by the Government would lead to any tufa- The present measure created a great deal of irritation in
-ulty as far as that interest was concerned. No one injury, he Brazil and Spain. Those merchants dealing with Brazil are
was persuaded, could be inflicted on that interest without doing . hardly sure of their property or their lives. He was far from
injury to the rest of the community. But he did not appre- considering that the present measure would give that additional
trend any evil from the operation of the measure. He looked encouragement to the slave trade, and he had no doubt that
still to the West Indies as the source from whence the people free labour would beat slave labour when admitted upon
of this country should continue to derive their supplies of sugar. equal terms into the market.—( Heor, hear.) Had for-
With capital and energy he felt sure they would continue to mer Governments disregarded the petty jealousies of the
command the markets of the country. In the same way that planters, and had they encouraged free labeur and imported
he believed the landed proprietors of this country would not labour into the market, there would have been no occasion for
'offer from the repeal of the corn-law, did he believed the West the present measure. nor would they have reason to say
India interest would not suffer from the withdrawal of their that a failure had taken place after the experiment
present protection. But as the agriculturists of this country had been tried for the space of fourteen years.
would make up for the absence of protection by capital and by But he hoped it was not yet too late; he hoped the
increased skill and improved modes of cultivation, so did he Honourable Member who had already shown such
think would the West India planters.—( Hear, hear.) Increased extended knowledge with regard to the question would Lok the
skill, and greater energy would make up for any temporary matter boldly in the face, and that he would employ such time
toss which they might suffer. Besides, they bad been favour- as the Parliament should in its wisdom determine, to give the
ably considered in other respects by the Legislature of the matter his serious attention. Why should they not make use
country. There had been last year a reduction of 10s. per of their extended empire for the benefit of the people, and
cwt. on produce imported into the colonies. But beyond this, grant to their colonies advantages over the people of other
it, would be a great benefit to the West India interest if the nations ? He considered it would not be beneficial to postpone
question was permanently settled.—( Hear, hear.) That in- the question, as the uncertainty which would hang over the final
terest wished to be relieved from annual discussions of this determination of Parliament would produce a stagnation in
sort, and they considered it would be a benefit of the greatest trade, the merchant or trader being afraid to invest his capitaL
kind, if the question was permanently settled, and if they were He rejoiced that the measure had been introduced. It
enabled to know what the regular rate of duty was to be. would tend to' the prosperity of the colonial interest, especially
The present Government proposed to do this. The Noble to that of the East and West Indies, that the planters and
Lord (George Bentinck) said that slave labour was cheaper commercial men should know as early as possible what
than free labour, and that the produce of the latter would have would be the determination of Parliament.—( Hear, hear.)
no chance in competition. In supporting that statement, When 24,0001. could be made out of an outlay of 8,000/ in
he referred to Louisiana. But in answer to that one season, he did not consider that the traders had much
he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would say reason to fear any resolution which they might consider wise
that it had been proved that the free labour of Mexico was to adopt, for ,these reasons he could not give his assent to the
twice as productive as the slave labour of Cuba.—( Hear.) proposition of
the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear. )
Such he hoped would be the result elsewhere. But, further, . Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY complained that there had
he understood that, in Cuba even, so dissatisfied were the not been sufficient encouragement afforded by the Government
planters with slave labour, that no less than 3.000 free la- to the importation of free labour into the colonies. That was
bourers had been imported. If Cuba found it necessary to do the reason the crops had failed, because they were not suffi-
this, would not they find that British capital and energy would ciently cultivated. There was one point to which he would
,to the same? In many of the colonies the deficiency of labour call the attention of the House, and that was the fact that
had been met, to some extent, by the importation of labourers there were at Berbice 1,050 unoccupied estates, although that
under the restrictions provided by the present laws. The Go country alone would produce sufficient sugar for Europe. In
vernment were willing, to extend the privilege of importing the year 1836 the sugar crop of Berbice was ;3,000 hogsheads,
labourers, under such restrictions that the labourers imported and in the year 1841 the crop fell to about 4,500; and since
should be really and truly the same. And while this advan- that there had been a gradual reduction in the price, occal
tage would be given them, during the time the present mea- sinned by the employment of captured Africans. Those en-
sure was carrying out, the West Indian interest would en- gaged in the West India trade could scarcely save themselves
joy no meagre share of protection. For the first from absolute ruin, and there was a great disorganization in
year, they would have fifty per cent. protection the West Indies in consequence of the free labourers leaving
in their favour-44 per cent. the next year, 32 per cent. the their employment without notice. He would ask the House,
following year, 21 per cent. the next year, and 10 per cent. and he would appeal to the country on the question, what
the year when the equalisation of the ditty took place. The right, or sort of right, had they in restrict certain localities?
third year—the critical year of the new proposition—they If they had established the fact that our markets were to be
would possess 32 per cent. in their favour—a fair and ample free to every country in the world, he contended that they had
amount of protection under the circumstances. But he hoped an equal right to permit the people of this country to pur-
they would not alone trust, under the new system proposed, to chase their sugar in the cheapest market, without any sort of
the importation of labourers, but that they would do every- restriction. They had no right to say to the people of this
aing in thin- power to cultivate the soil, and bring country, a You shall only be permitted to purchase your
*kill and capital to bear upon it; in doing which he suear farm the British dominions." He contended, that if
elt persuaded they could safely go into competition they had free trade with respect to corn, they should have free
eith the proeuce of any other portion of the world.— ( Hear, trade with respect to sugar and every other article. He called
near.) And to enable them to prepare for the change, and to upon the House to take into consideration the necessity of
:,ring their energies to bear upon their pos,essions, he thought carrying out, to their fullest extent, the great principles of free
rice years protection, as now proposed, sufficiently ample. Mea- trade which they had recently sanctioned.
sures would also be brought forward to benefit the West India Sir J. HOGG assured the House that his earnest desire was
interest in other respects. He was enabled to state one mea- that the. people of this country should have an abundant supply
ewe, which was the reduction of one-third of the deferential of sugar. --( Hear, hear.) That was his desire in 1841, and
duty on rum ; and he promised that interest he would support that was his intention and. desire now. 80, five years had since
every claim which they could fairly and in justice establish elapsed, and he now asked himself whether ther-e alterations
as necessary for their well-being. There was another claim that had been carried out—had his anticipations been realised—had
would be benefited by the present measure. He meant the the measures which he supported been carried out as success-
ship-owners, who would be greatly benefited in the earrying fully as he could have desired If he found that the measures
trade, if the proposed alteration were made. Instead of fo • which he at that time supported failed in producing the results
reign bottoms being employed in the Brazilian and Cuba trade, which he anticipated, then he should be ashamed to rise in his
as now, Biltish vessels would 13,.; almost entirely em- place in that House, and urge upon that assembly to continue
;cloyed. But, after all, the interests of the great body of the the adoption of measures which had signally failed. He would
,abouring population of the country was what they had to ask, did the measures which were then adopted afford the
consider, ano these would be greatly benefited by the measure. people of this country an adequate supply of sugar ? He need
Whatever they might do for other classes, they were bound to scarcely argue the point. It so happened that the calculation
consider the comforts of this class, and there could be no which the Noble Lord opposite had made, as to the quantity of
.Iftubt that it would confer a great benefit on them, in giving sugar expected to arrive in this countr this y ar, was almost
them a large, abundant, and cheap supply of a necessary— verbatim—almost tolident cerbis—the same calculation as
nay, an indispensible article of life. It was on that ground he ( Sir J. Hogg) had himself ventured to indulge in
mainly that the question was now brought under the consider- 1841, five years ago—( Hear, hear)-115,000 tons from the
ation of the House. (The Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst West. Indies, and from the Mauritius, as the Noble Lord made
loud cheers.) it appear, 75,000 tons had been received, and he (Sir John
Sir H. IN GLIS thanked the Noble Lord the Member for Hogg) ventured to calculate five years ago that the amount that
Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck), for the temperate and practical would be received would be 60,000 tons. He had ventured to
resolution which he had submitted to the House, and for the state that in the following year India would yield 100,000
speech with which he had supported it, so complete and con- tons, and he did not make that statement rashly. He in-
clusive in its reasoning, and so full of fact. He, for one, was formed himself from those quarters where the most authentic
willing to rest the decision of the question on that most con- information was likely to be—he made every inquiry in his
elusive speech ; but as it was not .he custom of the House to power, and he believed that those who furnished him with the
decide any matter by single combat, he would shortly occupy information had no desire to deceive him. How came it then
the attention of the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman the that the injury did not develope itself ? The population of
Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the greater portion or his India was pre-eminently a sugar eating people._
speech, spoke as a Chancellor of the Exchequer for the next ( Laughter.) It was almost their only luxury ; and they in-
year. The greater portion of the speech would have been dulged in it as far as their means would allow them. But they
more appropriate on May 10, 1847. The sum total of it was, did not indulge in the use of manufactured sugar. The Noble
"We want 35m),000/. in April, 1847, and we must make it up Lord had said that sugar could only be exported when it was
by some means." That sum he wanted, and in what at a certain price. But he ( Sir John Hogg) begged per-
way lee got it he did not seem greatly to care. He mission of the House to say that that statement was erroneous,
seated his expectation that 20,000 tons of slave-grown because the people of India scarcely ever consumed menu-
sugar would be imported next year, but he did not factured sugar. The sweetmeats which they consumed were
express any regret, or }misgiving tatet. such a sum as he had made of eremanufactueed sugar. 'He was rather welt pleased
named should be realised from such a source. They were to acknowledge that India did not send 100,090 tons to this
then told that the obligations of treaties compelled them to ad- country. The increased production of sugar in India was
mit slave-grown sugar, and that, therefore, they were obliged little more than adequate to the increased consumption among
to give Spain advantages which Spain did not possess. If that the people of India. He was really sorry that as far as his
were so, than he (Sir R. Inglis) maintained the treaty of knowledge of India went, those fairy visions of the Noble Lerd
Utrecht should be repealed, and the preference-giving prin- as to the increase of capital could not be realised.—( Hear,
ciple abandoned. But he did not think that the treaty of hear.) He was sure that the Noble Lord must have been
Utrecht warranted the construction put upon it. The treaty misled—( Hear, hear)— in the calculations which he had laid
of Utrecht was limited to trading transactions in Europe only. before the House as to the production of the Indian soil,
and did not extend to the colonial possessions of the two coon- and still more as to the productiveness of Indian capital,
tries ; but if the treaty really warranted the construction put If he failed in his anticipations as ro quantity, be did so also in
upon it, then ought they to relinquish the principle of regard to price. During. the sin months of this year, the
favoured nations altogether.—( Cries of Hear, hear.") imports and deliveries are less than the corresponding six
He resisted this measure because it eras a great discourage- months of the preceding year. The consumption of the
ment to British industry in the colonies, and a great encourage- world should be looked at. The consumption of sugar in the
merit to a most inhuman traffic. The sufferers that it would whole world was 840,000; the whole amount of sugar grown
produce would not be confined to Cuba—they would extend to in the tropics are only 771,00 a. The difference was made up
the alrazils, and whatever other part of the world men should of beet root sugar from France. The consumption of Europe
choose to drag them. The tortures which had been described alone was 675,000. The balance remaining in hand at the
by his Noble Friend that evening were tortures which the ad- conclusion of each year was only about 131,000
vocates of this measure must be prepared to perpetuate and or one month's consumption.—(Hear, hear.) The case
girdanueatl abolition of the duties
much,
t
stand there in any other
patronise; for every ton of.sugar imported into this country was so with no other article. It was melancholy to re-
was produced at the expense of the blood of three African fleet on the condition of the people of England,, whose
aviTnhgevyodteidd
slaves, and these three slaves were got at the expense of nine consumption of sugar only anvieherargeedf spixarplionednstp.er head. Upon
didU pnoont
from the coast of Africa—a cost which, with all the attendant the question of protectionmhheee could East nlnotdisaanyimn
evils of kidnapping -nd torture, was countenanced by the for the gradual abolition of the corn-laws,d he should be sorry to
authors of the measure ; and if these nine individuals were stand up in opposition to the
multiplied by 20,000, the result would be not less than 180,000. upon sugars.—( Cheers.) He
—( Hear, hear.) That was the wrong which they, a Chris- capacity than that of a
tian assembly, with all their professions, were asked to en- stand as the delegate of
Like all other classes, courage. He must say, deliberately, God forbid ! He hoped, not wish protection. L hem, and, like e they would take
at least, that those he saw on the other aide of the House, who protection if von gave it t everybody else, they
had often opposed slavery, would not vote with the Goirernment. would keep it as long as they could.—(Cheers )[le case
He dlid not oppese it from party fee,liog, but was different as between the East and West Indies,
he and those who agreed with him desired to give more in consequenco of the amount of labour to be obtained in the
erne to the Government to consider the measure. He said East Indies. He wished that the West
Indians hadhad two
there was an enormous increase in the free-hall' sugar of or three years to make preparations
.for the contest with the
India; it was stated to be 500,000 tons, the actual produce of East Indies. He thought it a great mistake to suppose that the
India.• Was it to be supposed, he asked, if the British markets labour of the Hill Coolies was equal_ov to the labour of the
were opened to all the world, that this would not soon find its imeieem labourers. He hoped the G ernment would take into
way into Europe? Might the demand not be met by this ? their conaideration the propriety of
__having a general free trade
trade—and that the
Why, the supply from the Mauritius alone was, twelve years —not a one-sided free a 3' would be allowed
ago, 27,700 tons, and last year, 35,800; and for the season to use' the Manilla and other sugars the distilleries of this
1846-47 the calculation was thatnot less than 60,000 tons would. country and Scotland and Ireland. The public should have
come in. He held a list in his hand showing the capacity of the best spirits which could ,
theminstead°Y 'he existence of the pre.
produce of the is:and. Estate A produced, in 1843, 300 tons; -sent intricate excise laws. e
dtnought that the duty on rum
in 1814, 400 tons; in 1845, 500 to„ ; in seen, 800 tons; should be more fairly equalise than it was at present. He
and for the season of 1847 it was expected that the return would now . say a few words in reference to the' slave trade.
would be 1,000. Other estates exhibited a like increase of Look at the acknowledgment of Fowell Buxton. He ackoow_
return, though somewhat more irregular. Here, then, was !edged. that all they had done for its suppression was a
rotte•of,ehe colonies of England producing last year one-fourth magnificent failure. Notwithstanding all the exertions then
et t13841.01e quantity consumed in Britain. He said he should the slave trade had of late increased. Cuba, which thirty
'ot regret the change which had been made in the social con- years ago had to import sugar for her own consumption, now
efition of the people a the. West Indies; still less should he re- manufactured 200,000 tons, and there was evidence sufficient
gret that great subs Nhich was voted by this country as its con- to show that 100,000 slaves were annually imported there. If
tribution in linuour. of the principles which it held ;;but he -they wished to destroy the I
s_ave trade they must allow slaves to
never woliaitaakateether than regret that the country should emigrate to the West Indies, and carry back with them into
have lett her, iirioniks with no better supply of free labour.— Africa the principles of civilisation.
.( Hear, hear.) - -Asicir the importation of Hill Coolies, it was Mr. HOPE thought that this measure was one of great
now under so great restrictions that it was accomplished severity, if not of great injustice, towards the West Indies. He
with perfect safety to these individuals themselves, and as there did not advocate the continuance of the present protective
was a loeal authority, if their liberties were encroached on or duties, but he thought the measure would be productive ofgreat
undue advantage were taken of them, they could immediately injury to all those who had property in that quarter of the globe.
apply and find a ready remedy. They ought to reed- The difficulty they would have to contend with in Africa would
beet also that their colonies had an almost un- be the difficulty of inducing free men to go there. The condi-
limited command of - soil, soil which might raise don of the people of Africa was that of master and slave, of
any quantity this country might . require • Guiana lord and villain. The slaves there were not sold as slaves, nor
for example, or Berbice ; and
they cught to give British pro- were they sent away except for a crime. But still there slavery
prietors that advantage which would enable them to raise a' was most distinct-and undoubted. The
people were not to be
supply equal to the demand. He asked for a preference for but with great difficulty,and•
procured . then ite -very esnleall
thtlak7al4.-413gelYst73-..I6OTOUCCe but suri s-pretatteu tuber& ICluda the Clue .114\t' Zifferet+they.

abundant supply, and under a system which had been lately
introduced, emigration from India was going on to a consider-
able extent, and there were no less than from 20.000 to 30,000
men already embarked on their passage ; and by the present
measure they entirely took away from these people the pro-
spect of any fair remuneration for their labour. He must ob-
ject to one s'atement male by a Government officer, which he
thought unfair. It was the letter of Mr. John Porter, stating
that the West Indies could produce an ample quantity of sugar,
provided it had sufficient stimulus in the way of competition.
He was aware that. the West Indies had already had too much
competition, that she already felt the wound, and was injured
by the measures which had been already adopted. He was
not one who looked upon a state of slavery as one of such
horror as had been described, but he would conclude by saying
that they were increasing its horrors by attempting to sup-
press it by force, and by causing greater losses to those en-
gaged in it.

Sir R. PEEL said, Sir, this House will probably recollect
what has indeed been adverted to by the Noble Lord, the
Member for Lynn, that at an early period of the present
session, I announced the intention of the late Government to
propose a measure with reference to the admission of foreign
sugar, which was based on a different principle from that
which the Noble Lord has proposed. The proposal which I
intended to make on the part of that government was to give
greater facilities and encouragement to the admission of free
labour, and I have no hesitation in saying that had that Govern-
ment remained in office, the proposal which I should have
made on the part of that Government would have been that
announced at an early period of the session. That measure
so proposed on the part of the Government would have con-
tained the exclusion from the markets of this country of sugar
the produce of the slave-trade, but would have admitted at
lower rates of duty that sugar which was the produce of free
labour and of foreign growth in competition with sugar the
produce of our own country. I think it but right, therefore,
that I should now state the, vote which I intend to give. Both
myself and those who have acted along with me have felt that
in the question of slave labour and the produce of slave labour,
there was an exception to the principle on which
the ordinary affairs of commerce were conducted. I
felt that we stood in a pecutar position with regard to the
West India colonies. The case of the East Indies was different
in regard to the supple of labour, but with respect to the West
Indies we did think that this country did stand in a s.secial and
peculiar positicn towards it.—(Hear, hear.) You had no
doubt made a great sacrifice in order to put an end to slavery
in those colonies ; you had given for the emancipation of their
slaves a liberal—nay, what many would consider a magnificent
compensation ; but whether or no that was a sufficient com-
pensation for what the West Indian interest hail given up is a
question open to dispute. Be that as it may, it did subject the
colonies to great disadvantages in competing with foreign
countries where slavery was in existence.—( Hear, hear.) That
led to the conclusion that it was right, before these colonies
were required to enter into competition with other
countries, that a considerable interval of time should
be allowed to elapse.—( Hear.) It was the peculiar
circumstances in which the Act of Emancipation had placed
the West Indian that led to the opinion in my own mind, and
those with whom I have acted, that we ought to depart from
the ordinary principles on which commercial affairs are con-
ducted. In that opinion, 1 may say, I was supported by one
of the most strenuous supporters of the general application
of free-trade. The gentleman to whom I allude is Mr.
Deacon Hume. On this account we thought it of the greatest
importance to preset ve to the West India interest the markets
of this country, and that we should give an interval of time
before entering upon an equalisation of duties with the pro-
duct of foreign countries. We thought also that the colonies
stood in a different position irom other countries in regard
to slavery. We had not only put an end to it in our colonies,
but we had also undertaken the police of the seas, in which
we had derailed from all the ordinary rules of international
law. In order to carry that out we formed treaties with other
powers for the suppression and abolition of the slave trade,
at it we made these enraged in trade to submit to regulations
which were net in agreement with the ordinary laws of com-
mercial intercourse. We instituted the right of search, and
finding that France would not agree to that, we establish, d in
concert wi:h the Government of that country an immense
fleet o cruise off the coast of Africa, to put an end to the
exportation of negroes from there to other countries. This
was a violation of all international laws, still I consider it was
perfectly right we should do so. We had gone further
than the simple abrogation of slavery in our colonies;
we had not only shown a great example to
other countries in the abolition of slavery in our colonies,
but we did not rely on that alone, for we applied the physical
main force of the country in order to put an end to the slave
trade.—( Hear, hear.) It did appear, therefore, taking a full
view of the question, that some time ought to elapse before the
produce of slave-giowing countries was admitted into competi-
tion with the produce of our colonial possessfons. In regard to
the statement which was made bs the Noble Lord (George
Bentinck ) it is impossible to review it without being shocked
at the horror of the system which he deprecates, or without
feeling that public opinion and public sentiment will go along
with him in its condemnation. The Noble Lord has given
specimens of the horrors of this system, in which the House has
fully sympathised; and if it could be shown that by raising the
price of sugar Id. or 1 d. a pound, an effectual stop
would be put to the horrors of this horrible
traffic, I am quite sure the country would cheerfully make the
sacrifice.—(Cheers.) Twenty millions had been freely given
in order to release the bonds of the West India slaves; and
if the distinction now maintained between slave and free-
grown produce was calculated to abolish slavery in other
countries, I am sure the people of this country would willingly
hear the tax. I fear that it may at first -give a stimulus to
slavery. It is not without great reluctance, therefore, that I
have come to the resolution to give my support to the mea-
sure.—(Cheers.) I am forced to consider other rather than
the mere abstract question ; there was the position of parties,
and the prospect of forming a Government on the dissolu-
tion of the present Government.—( Hear, hear.) I agree
with the Noble Lord that It ought to be no sham opposition.
I agree that if any opposition were formed to her Majesty's
Government, it ought to be an opposition intended to be fatal
to that Government. I believe it possible by combination to
displace the Noble Lord ; at least I believe it possible by com-
bination to throw out the measure. I think it would be pos-
sible to raise a feeling in this country against this measure, at
all events to raise a fatal impediment to it ; and I feel myself
bound to ask myself this question, whether I could sanction
such oppaition, and I think that I ought not.—(Hear,
hear.) The Government with which I was connected
Has displaced by a vote of this House, tantamount
to a withdrawal of contidenc, from that Government.—( Hear.)
I yielded to that vote, The Noble Lord was called on by her
Majesty to form a Government, as it seemed, with the appro-
bation of this House. The Noble Lord is prepared with a pro-
posal for the final adjustment of this question. I am prepared
for that. The Noble Lord could not accept of power without
being prepared with a proposal on this subject. I could have no
daub; of it. --- (Hear.) When in the beginning of last year, in
the month of February, 1 proposed my measur, on sugar, the
Noble Lord proposed a motion en the same subject, fur tieing
away with the distinction between slave and free-labour sugars.
That was the course which he pursued on that occasion.
—( Dear ) In t se course of this year, when this question came
on again to be considered, the Noble Lord, before the Easter
recess, gave notice of a motion to the effect that the distinc-
tion between slave and free-labour sugar was impolitic and un-
just, and that it could not be maintained, and that it should
he abolished. The Noble Lord's proposal then was, that this
distinction between slave and free labour sugar should be
abolished. The Noble Lord, and those who sit with him on
the Treasury benches, put the same construction on certain
treaties, as I and those that are with me, put upon them ;
but I said that good faith must be kept, so far as effected
the excluding of certain produce from the markets.
—(Loud cries of Hear.) Consequently notice has been
given of the course which the Noble Lord would follow, and
good faith and consistency required that that distinction
between slave and free-labour sugars should be abolished.—
( Hear, hear.) Now I could not doubt that the Noble Lord,
when he was called to power, would abolish that distinction.
It was indeed open to the Noble Lord to proceed immediately,
or to take time for the mature consideration of the subject,
but the Noble Lord has chosen to proceed at once. Whether
he proceeded at once, or took time till next November, it was
a mere question of time. I understood that the Noble Lord
and his friends would effect the abolition of that distinction.
%illy perhaps it was better that it should be made at
once, as far as it may affect many interests in
the country. But there are many questions on
which mature deliberation, perhaps, might be necessary ;
the introduction of molasses duty free into this country, arid
the spirit duties--( Hear, hear)—were questions which he
trusted the Noble Lord would take into further consideration,
oecause he was doubtful as to the effect which the reduction of
the duty on them may produce. Now, in the first place, in
speaking of the West India colonies, we must remember that
there is a great expense a:teadant upon the imigration of free
labsurers. There is a great expense attendant upon
the introduction of natives from the East Indies; and
there is a far greater expense in bringing Africans from
the coast of Africa, but still this ought not to discourage
your encouraging this immigration to the colonies ; and in
saying this much, let me observe that you ought to accompapv ,
the introduction to the 'colonies•of native laboniers with an
adequate supply of females.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) If
you determine to attempt a supply of Coolies for the West In-
dies, for the purpose of promoting the ultimate success of yo ir
plan, it will be of the utmost importance that there should be
a due proportion of females introduced into the country.
Entertaining, therefore, these views upon the subject of ad-
mitting sugar, the produce of slave labour, into competition
with free-labour sugar, I do hope the Noble Lord and his
Government will reserve to themselves the power of here-
efter considering what are the equivalent advantages which
he will give to the West Indies.—( Hear, hear.) But I was
going on to say that I did not feel myself justified in enteri, g
into a combination for the purpose of displacing the Noble
Lord and his Government within six weeks after the day on
which he had assumed office.—(Hear, hear.) But, says the
Noble Lord the Member fur Lynn, you may safely enter into
such a combination, and the Noble Lord will still retain office.
Well, I will not pretend to know what course the Noble Lord
will adopt, but this I will say, that I think the Noble Lord,
under the circumstances in which he is placed—under the cir
cumstances in which he accepted power—and being defeated
now on so important a measure of his commercial policy as the
present, would, I cannot say give up power, but, in my opinion,
he would be fully justified in doing so.--( Hear, hear. )
Those, then, who :compel him to abdicate power ought to
exercise their discretion, and, in doing so, they are bound
to ask themselves whether in the event of success they are pre-
pared to undertake the Administration of public affairs. There
are circumstances in the history of every country where that
question must be asked by those who enter into combinations
for the purpose of displacing a prevailing Government.—(Hear,
hear.) Two Governments have existed within the last six
weeks. Shall a third be formed ? Upon what principle?
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Shall their be a restoration of
the late Government ?—(Cries of " No, no.") I entirely
concur in that opinion.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) I do
think that the late Government, having withdrawn from office
in consequence of a signification on the part of the House,
tantamount to a vote of want of confidence in its policy the
defeat of the Government who succeeded it by a combination
effected by the former within six weeks after its determination,
without any prospect of future success, would be discreditable
to the country.—(Cheers.) I believe the country could
have little confidence in those who had thrown them
out, and therefore, entertain ng these views, I have
come to the conclusion that it would not be for the public
advantage to enter into a combination for the sake of displacing
the present Government. The protection party, with whom I
am prepared to speak with all respect, at any rate cannot be
surprised that they themselves could not take ()filets, or form a
Government, with any prospect of advantage or success ; nor
are they, perhaps, prepared to enter into a combination for de-
feating the present occasion with a view of recalling those to
power who have just left office. --( Hear, hear.) I say, then,
that what has taken place, seeing the:manifest divergence of
opinion exhibited on this measure amongst those who were the
supporters of the late Government, only confirms me in the
opinion that defeating the Noble Lord upon this commercial
measure would be attended by no Rood results, and at once I
admit that I am not prepared to take the consequences of such
a conclusion as that I allude to—(Cheers)—seeing the posi-
tion of parties compels those who have taken part in the public
services of the country to consider the question of what
will by the result of displacing the Government which
has now held power for six weeks. At the same
time if it could be shown that a Government
could be formed which could permartsntly resist the
introduction of slava labour sugar by those who, like my Hon.
Friend, sincerely think that at all hazards the introduction of
,artieles, the produce of slave.labour, should not be allowed, it
VtQ "lii"t-1.1144 i llavo 4';ierioua 4+44 vlghtr,

in the present state of public opinion, the formation of any Go-
I vernment could permanently continue the present system. If
indeed you could lay down the principle that you would, under
no circumstances whatever, consume the produce of stave la-
bour, and you could hold out to the colonies the assurance that
that principle would be adhered to, it would be a
different matter; but is it likely or probable
that a Government could be formed either by any
party or any combination of parties, which could hope to per-
manently maintain the principle, that articles the produce of
slave labour shall not be admitted into this country.--( Hear,
hear.) Let me then observe that the Noble Lord, the Mem-
ber for Lynn does not lay down the principle that articles the
produce of slave labour shall not be admitted. The Noble
Lord does not even lay down the principles that we will main-
tain the statu quo, that we will admit cotton that is now used
in this country, that we will admit tobacco that is now used in
this country, but that we will go no further, that we will per-
mit no further violation of the principle which tend to con-
tinue slavery.--( Hear, hear.) The motion of the Noble
Lord is in fact similar to the resolution, which
was moved by my Noble Friend the Member fos
Liverpool, in 1841. He wished to continue the discriminating
duties on slave •labour sugar, because the admission into this
country of that article depended, in a great measure, upeb
the supply of sugar the produce of free labour, ( Hear,
hear.) The effect of the Noble Lord's resolution is,
that under certain circumstances—if the prices were
greatly increased—you would admit slave-grown sugar
into the market under certain modifications. What assurance
could merchants have of the permanence of any arrangement
which did not contemplate the difficulties which might arise
from a scarcity, natural or artificial. The estimates which he
has formed might be less favourable at some period than they
are at the present moment, and in such a case the planters
would have reason to fear that the people of this country would
not tolerate the high priees.—(Cries of " No, no.") Well, if
you say " No, no," ase_you prepared to affirm, as permanent, a'
resolution, be the state of the market or the occasion
what it may, that you will not admit slave-labour sugar.—
( Hear, hear.) But that is not what you are prepared to:affirm,
and you do not give any assurance to the colonists that they
may safely rely upon your permanency of legislation upon this
question ; and you, therefore, bring doubt and insecurity into
the minds of the capitalist and traders. The Noble Lord has
endeavoured to make a permanent adjustment of this question,
and the colonists, as well as all those in the trade, attach the
utmost importance to a permanent adjustment, as it
will enable the capitalist to know with what .he has
to contend. He will know, moreover, that there
will be extended to him a qualified protection,
and that at the end of a certain period there must be free
competion.—(Hear, hear.) Unless you admit the principle of
the Noble Lord, that slave labour at some period must be ad-
mitted to compete with free labour, you cane of attain perma-
nency in any measure you adopt. When I proposed to reduce
the duty on free labour, I did not hope to introduce a permanent
measure ; had I remained in power it was my inten-
tion to have proposed the continuance of the sugar duties.
for one year, in order to give the experiment a farther trial.
But I doubt exceedingly that this House could be prevailed to
pass a permanent law which did not contemplate at some period
the fire admission of slave-grown sugar. Any other proposal
would have been sulject to the disadvantage of being
a temporary measure, and the slave holder, seeing
the state of public opinion in the country—seeing
the division of parties, and that the subject was one
of continual controversy—never would abandon the hope
that at no distant period he would be admitted to the same ad-
vantages as the cultivator with free labour. He would not
fail to cherish that hope. The slaveholder in Brazil would
nourish the same hope, he would be constantly expecting that
at no distant day he would be admitted to compete with
free labour, whilst the capitalist in free labour would
not know whether it would be safe to invest his capital in the
cultivation of the Otaheitan cane, which promises so many
great advantages to the producer. I believe, on the whole,
that, in the present state of public opinion, there may be a
chance of temporar, contribution to the promotion of
slavery, but I believe it will be only temporary, and that
the evil of continuing the uncertainty far out •
weighs any consideration of such a character. I will
not enter into a detail of the plan of the Noble Lord ; my
earnest hope is, that his 'great object will be to make a final
settlement of the question.—( Hear, hear.) I do hope that he
will listen with attention to every proposal which, doing away
with a destructive duty, may have for its object the intention
of enabling free-labour sugar to compete with slave sugar. I
do not enter into details I do not wish to
embarrass him. My support will be of a bowl fide kind,
and he will feel that he is best ensuring the success of a
great principle by enablir g those who have nothing but their
labour successfully to compete with those who continue the
traffic in slaves.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, entertaining, therefore,
this opinion, avoiding any discussion on the details, entertaining
a sincere belief that at no remote period, if this measure be
obstructed now, that it must be ultimately carrried—( Cheers)
—believing that if any one is to carry it there is none better
entitled to the credit attached to success than the Noble Lord.
—(Cheers)—l am come to the resolution, not, as I said
before, without hesitation and without reluctance, to give my
support to the principle of his measure, and in supporting the
principle of that measure it is my resolution not to embarrass
him by a vexatious opposition.—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. P. MILES, amidst some confusion, moved the adjourn-
ment of the debate, after which

Sir T. ACL AND rose, and said that he did not wish to
persuade the House either to come to a decision at once, or
adjourn the discussion, but he must beg for the indulgence of
the House, whilst he said that in his opinion the Right Hon.-
Baronet had come to th'e -dttermination announced by him
solely from a consideration of the state of parties
in that House—( Vociferous cheering from the pro-
tectionists)--and of the way in which the present
Government might be affected by his vote upon this question.
—(Continued chee:ing from the same parties). His Noble
Friend opposite was either right or wrong in his policy, bet
the question on which they had to decide was one of the
greatest moment, and he (Sir T. Acland), for his own part,
oisclaimed, in the strongest manner, any wish to promote the
interests or views of any party in that House by the vote which
he intended to give on thi. question.—( Hear, hear.) He dis-
claimed, in the strongest manner, being influenced by any
hostile opposition to the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern-
ment, in giving the vote which he intended to record on this
question. Indeed, he was prepared, in homely phrase, to give
the present Government " a fair trial and no favour." ( Hear,
hear.) He felt that the Noble Lord opposite was actuated by
feelings of the most upright character when he proposed the
measure. lie believed that the Right Hon. Bart., the mem-
ber for Tamworth, in giving his vote on this question was in-
fluenced by considerations as to the existence of the
Government. He would wish to ask whether the wishes
of the parties who were thought to be admitted to a
voice in that House had been considered, and whether
the great masses of the people of this country were admitted
into their councils. He contended that they were not admitted
to a share in the councils of the nation.—( Hear, hear.) It had
been the policy of this country during the last thirty years to do
all in their power to put down the abominable slave trade at.
any and every cost, and he could not understand how they now
consistently adopt a proposition to countenance and encourage
the slave traffic in human beings.—(Hear, hear. )
Mr. P. BORTHWICK amidst great laughter and con-
fusion, seconded the motion for the adjournment of the
debate.

The SPEAKER having put the question that the House do
now adjourn.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that as it was not likely that the
debate could be concluded that night he would support the mo-
tion for an adjournment of the debate, which had been pre-
viously moved by an Hon. Member.
After a few words from Mr. MILES the debate was ad-
journed.

Air. EWART withdrew the motion of which he had given
notice.

Mr. HUME also consented to withdraw his motion.
SUPPLY.

The report of this Committee. ;;;; brought up and agreed to.
DEODANDS ABOLITION (No. 2) BILL.
On the motion of Mr. BOUVERIE this Bill was read a
second time.

BATHS AND WASHHOUSES (IRELAND).
Mr. PICOT obtained leave to bring in a Bid for promoting
the voluntary establishment in boroughs, cities, and towns, in
Ireland, of Public Baths and Washbouses.

The Bill was then read a first and second time, and
The House adjourned at a quarter-past one o'clock.