The Sun.
London, England, 1841-05-04 00:00:00

STEAM SHIPS.

THE GENERAL STEAM NAVIGA-
TION COMPANY'S splendid and powerful first-class
STEAM SHIPS are appointed to sail for—
EDINBURGH, from Brunswick-wharf, Blackwall, every
Saturday night, and every alternate Wednesday night, at Ten.
The LEITH, To-Morrow Evening; the MONARCH, Sa-
to. day ; and the CLARENCE, Saturday, Mayls.
NEWCASTLE, from Downes's-wharf, every Wednesday and
Saturday Evening, at Eight. The AT TWOOD, Wednesday ;
the LONDON MERCHANT on Saturday.
SUNDERLAND, from Downes'.s-wharf. The TOURIST.
every Tuesday, at Seven Evening.
IPSWICb, from London-bridge Wharf. The ALBION
every Wednesday and Saturday morning, at Eight.
YARMOUTH, from London bridge wharf. 1 he RAMONA,
every Saturday Evening, at Sit.
RAMSGATE-7 he FAME, Saturday, the 15th of May.
To secure berths, and for all information, apply at the Offices
of the Company, 69, Lombard-street ; 37, Regent-circus ; and
3.5, Leadenhall-street.

Small Packages and Parcels are received at the Offices, and
heavy Goods at the respective Wharfs.

IMPORTANT TO ADVERTISERS.
THE STAMP RETURNS for 1840 prove
that THE WEEKLY CHRONICLE publishes every
week a number more than equal to
4 Examiners, or
5 St. James's Chronicles, or
5 Spectators, or
bl Mark Lane Expresses, or
SA Watchmen, or
5i John Bulls, Or
bi Observers, or
bi Eras, or
6 Globes, or
6 Standards, or
7 Records, or
7 Patriots, or
The advantage to Advert
Office, 337, Strand.

7 True Suns, or
Britannias, or
8 Bell's New Messengers, or
9 Arguses, or
9 Evening Mails, or
9 Atlases, or
10 Planets, or
13 Agee, or
16 Shipping Gazettes, or
16 Evening Chronicles, or
29 Couriers, or
32 English Chronicles.
isers is therefore obvious.

SHEFFIELD PLATE.
G
M. HORTON and CO., late AVERY,
• 36, Ludgate-street, St. Paul's, now offer to the
Public their STOCK of sul•erior genuine SHEFFIELD
PLATE at the manufacturers' prices, subject to 10 per cent. off
the same. The stock embraces every article u'eful and orna-
mental, awl of the most elegant and tasty modern designs.
splendid Tea and Coffee Sets, Ice-pails, Dish-covers, and
Corner-dishes, Silver and Plated Dessert-knives and Forks in
sets, in great variety, and every article clated on steel, as also
on German silver ; Rodgers and Son's Table Cutlery ; Co-
loured Wine and Spirit Bottles, splendidly silver mounted,
only 12s. 6d. each.

IMPORTANT TO BROKE RS, LAND-
LORDS, AND TENANTS.

RECENT DECISION IN THE EXCHEQUER COURT'
BEFORE MR. BARON GURNEY.
SMITH V. LIVERMORE.

The action was brought by tlr. Smith, an independent gen-
tlemen, to recover from the-defendant, a broker living at Chel-
sea, a sum of money, which the plaintiff alleged had been un-
justly subtracted from the produce of a sale which defendant
had effected under the authority of a levy for rent. It appears
that the defendant had been employed to execute a levy for
'an arrear of rent, amounting to 1461. After taking possession
of the goods of the tenant, consisting mainly of flowers, roots,
shrubs, and other matters belonging to a nursery garden, with
the addition of a horse, the defindant Amused a valuation to be
made of the whole property, which amounted to 681. The
articles, however, at the sale only produced 381., out of which
sum the defendant deducted 221. odd for expenses, thus
leaving a balance due to the landlord of 16/. Against some of
the charges the plaintiff demurred, and brought the ac-
tion with the view of compelling the defendant to establish
his right to ! make them. Amongst other items ob-
jected to was one under the head of commission on
the amount of the levy. '1 hat item was 6/. 2s. In
reference to this charge the witnesses, Mr. Greaves and
Mr. Ceely, who were called for the plaintiff, stated that it
MS one which was not recognised by the trade, and that there
was no custom or rule among the respectable portion thereof
which Sanctioned a demand of the kind under such circum-
stances. Several brokers, en the other hand, who gave testi-
mony in support of the defendant's case, said that the custom,
with them, was to charge five per cent. on the first 10e1 and
two and a half per cent. on the second 1001., this commis-
sion being chargeable on the amount for which the levy was
executed, even though the sale of all the property might not
realise anything like that. sum.
Mr. Baron GURNEY, in leaving the case to the Jury, raid
that actions of this sort had generally come into a Court of Law
at the instance of the tenant, but here it appeared to emanate
with the landlord. The question was one of the greatest im-
portance to the public, but most especially so to that class of
I,ersons wham it more particularly affected. It was impossible
for the Jury to give too attentive a consideration to the point
which had started up in the course of the trial. Here was a
levy executed t n arrears of rent amounting to 146/. The broker
had then set to work to value the property, and that value he
bad put down at 681. Next had come the sale, and there the
very articles which that person had estimated at 681. had
brought but 38/. ; and ultimately the broker had sent in a bill
of expenses consequent on the levy, to the enormous extent of
221., thereb: leaving to the landlord, M hose claim had been 1461.,
the very small sum of 161. It really was abominable to
see the way in which a broker would run up the
costs, and this charge for commission appeared to him to be
based on the most monstrous principle. It had been proved by
the respectable witnesses for the plaintiff, that a fair and rea-
sonable charge for merely making the levy was usually consi-
dered to be one or two guineas, dependent of course on the
peculiar nature of the trouble such levy induced on the party.
He most, say that he thought such a method of charge honest
and reasonable, whilst the plan of charging a commis•ion, and
that, too, not on the amount realized by the sale, but on the full
amount of the arrears, he could not but regard as beinghighly
dangerous, and one that ought on no account to be admitted or
sanctioned by that or any other Court. If they entertained
similar views in reference to that question, the Jury would
find for the plaintiff 101. ss.
The Jury, after a short consultation, returned with a verdict
for the plaintiff-101. sa. damages.

POLITICAL RELATIONS OF GREAT BRI-
TAIN WITH PERSIA.--The public arc at last about to know
something which may be depended on regarding the pre-
sent anomalous state of our political relations w th Persia,
as we are vromised in a forthcoming work, entitled "Three
Years in Pesis," by George Fowler, Esq., (a gentleman
who, during his residenee and navels in that interesting
courtry, employed himself in obtaining all the information
on the subject procurable through the many facilities he
possessed), a full detail of Persian, Russian, and English
diplomacy, and the extent to which the interests of this
country have suffered by the supineness of certain persons,
the vigilance of the Celia of St. Petersburg'', and the
want of honesty of the advisers of the Shah. In fact, the
exposure of our foreign policy in the East, which we have
been led to expect in this work, is likely to attract the at-
tention of all classes of politicians.

THE BUDGET.—The resolution actually passed
by the House of Commons on Friday night was, "that towards
making good the s,upTily gy,trited tJ her. 3lajcsty, the sum of
11.00001. be raised by Exchequer Bills for the service of the
year 1811."

co aN-LAWS,
Tt.e Duke of BUCKINGHAM tires@ iced 120 peti,
!ions; prineipally froth places in Bockirghamshire, against
any qßei-ait In the ter 'seat Corn-laws. These petitions
signed by farmers and tradesmen, by clergymen and
I ibeurers. The Noble Duke proceedei to say that they
had been signed previously to any annow,cement made io
a:other place.—( Hear. ) That ainuuncement, however,
had induced the p ttioncrs to communicate with him,
and ts expr:ss their astonishment on the subject. Tney
deeely iegretted that on such a question the Noble Lori:
at th .1 head of her Majesty's Government should have united
with his colleagues in favour of an alteration in
t-e Corn-laws, and run thereby no small r.sk of
endangering every thing that was valuable in this country.
—( Hear, he tr.) The pe itioners anxiously desired to
came before their Lordships, not seeking a monopoly
under any circumstances, but simply prajlog the House
not to deprive them of that protection wine.) all other
classes of her Majesti's subjects enjoyed. As far as be
(the Duke of Buckingham) was curicerned, he had heard
with regret and astonishment the declaration made in an-
other place; but he did hope that that declaration would
meet with the dr., i.led epinion of the Commons of Eng-
land, as well as of thee Lordships, in a manner wiles would
.;t once dispel the fears of the agricultural population of
that county, and ens' 1:: tl.cal to enjoy in peace tacir own
property and to give employm,nt to the labouring classes,
who, if those laws were repealei, would be
deprived of the wails of subsistence.—( Hear, bear.)
It would be for their Lordships to inquire iiito the
whole question, and when he recollected the sentiments
formerly expressed by the Neill,: Lord at the head of the
Government, he certainly hopes he would not join his
colleagues on the occasion. He felt confident at least that
their Lordships would feel that they had some reason to ex-
pi et the suppr rt of the Noble Viscount. He would read an
extract from a speech formerly delivered by the Noble
Lord in confirmation of this ass, nion. The Noble Dunce
then read an extract from a former speech of Lord Mel-
bourne, to the efEct that his Lordship saw clearly
that an alteration in the Corn-laws could not be carried
into died without a most violent struggle and civil con-
tentions—without stirring society to its foundations,
and leaving behind ev.try sort of and
animosity. The Noble Lord said that he did
not think the advantages to be derived from the change
would be worth the evils cf the struggle by which alone
their Lordships might depend upon it the change could be
effected. They had already seen great changes—changes
which disturbed society to the bottom—which excited
man against man—divided the whole country :nto pa--
tics, and left behind the deepest feelings of animosity.
He was not toady, by any rash adventure, again to agitate
those feelings, and on those general grounds he felt
himself justified in opposiog the motion." (Hear,
hear.) Those were the wends of the Noble Viscount,
and he (the Duke of Buckingham) would call upon
their Lordships to stand by those lava,—(Hear, hear.)
He trusted they would never witness those disturbances to
which the Noble Viscount had alluded; but so surely as
de and his colleagues should take ilea step that had been
mentioned, so surely would they throw the country into a
state of irremediable confusion, while the Noble Lord and
hit colleagues would be answerable for the evils which
would follow.

Viscount MELBOURNE.—As he had been so point-
edly alluded to by the Noble Duke, he th night it was ne-
cessary fur him to say P few words in reply. No doubt,
en many occaslons, he had stated that there were many
reasons and grounds which rendered any agitation of
the Corn-laws liable to grew objection, and
pregnant with evil. But, a: the tame time,
upon every occasion on which be had addressed
their Lordships on the question, ho had &ways sai 1 that
his opposition to any charge in the Corn-laws was based
upon partic'alar and temporary grounds.—(Cheers.)
Upon no occasion bad he ever pledged himse:f to th ex -
istieg laws, because he saw that the time must come when
their Lcrdships must of necessity take the question into
consideration. The Noble Viscount quoted from his
speech of last year, in order to show that he had not
pledged himself to the laws as they stood, or to the
amount of duty to he levie I—he had dis'inctly stated that
circumstances might arise which would render it neces-
sary for the Legislature to reconsider the question, II!
thought it impossible for him to use any words which
would more clearly show that in his opision the question
was merely one of time. In his opinion the circum-
stances had asisenes-( lierreOtenr)—the time had now ar-
rived wiles, in order to meet the exigencies of the country
—when large financial measures, aft. ctisg every interest
in the country, it was impossible to le sve teat, the master-
grir ranceountouched.-(Cheers.) On these grounds he
had thought it necessary to change his opinion.
The Earl of RIPON had heard, with very great regret,
the speech of his Noble Fiisnd—not on account of the
great interests concerned, but on account of the character
of h.s Noble Friend himself—(Cheers)—because, if
he had not wry more satisfactory reasons for his
change of opinion he would net stand justified in the eyes
of the country, he would net be able to carry on the Go-
vernment of the country —(Ch era.) He was anxious to ask
a question of the Noble Viscount. In his opinion their Lord.
ships had aright to know what was the principle to be adopted
by the Government, they ought to know whether the mea•
sure was to be one of protect ion or of taxation. If it was to
be a measure of projection, then they threw away
all the arguments used by the Anti Corn-law people.
Ha contended that the Corn. I sw was a measure of
protection, and introduced upon grounds of humanity
and justice—introduced for the wants and subsistence of
the poor; but if they threw away the principle of protection
and adopted that of taxation—( Loud cheers) —they would
do th-t which had never been done by any country in the
:world—(Cheers)—it would be the most cruel act ever
forced upon a reluct tnt Legislature.
Lord MELBOURNE said he was not at present pre-
pared to answer the question.—(Great laughterand cheer-
log on the Opposition Benches.)
The Earl of WINC H ILSE A (aho spoke with exceed-
ing vehemence, and although in his loudest possible tone,
oith so much rapidity of utterance that it was ire-
pos•ib!e to catch a single sentence coherently) said
that the proposed corn-measure must be considered
as one of taxation, arid as such, he, as one of the
landowners of the country, would give it every op-
position in his power. He would oppose any additional
tax upon the agricultural interest, and especially a tax on
the most essential article of the food of the working
classes.— ( Loud cheers from Earl Stanhope.) He hope I
the people of England would rise up as one man against
sect a tax. (Renewed ewers from Earl Stan-
hope and others.) The object of the existing
Corn-laws was the protection of the agricultural interest,
and to afford a supply of bread to the labouring classes as
el eaply as it could be grown.--( Cheers from the Opposi-
tion, especially from Earl Stanhope.) No country could
be independent or fro e which depended on others for its
supply of food.—( Cheers. ) If it was now to be proposed
to tax bread, in Gin's name let them resist it to the utmost.
—(Cheers from Lord Stanhope and the Opposition, and
laughter from tho Liberal Lords.) They might tax the
property and incomes c f the higher classes an they pleased,
but in God's name let them not allow a tax upon bread.--
( Great laughter on the Ministerial tenches, and cheers
f. um the Tories.) The Noble Lord opposite and
his colleagues were not acting honestly.—(Cheers.)
The country condemned then on their foreign, do-
mestic, and commercial policy; and now they had raised
the .* Ch ap-bread" cry, in the hope that clamour would
he of use to them, upon a dissolution of Parlian ent.
But t' e people had too much sense to be deluded by that
cry. They knew that "cheap bread" meant low wages.
By this attempt, by taking away the protection from the
produce of the newly emancipated West Indian colonies,
arid giving encouragement to fore'gn sugar, Minis-
ters had rendered themselves more odious than
ever, and had hurried on the's- own downfal.
CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.
Ltrd DUNFERMLINE prevented a petition Bern
seven Clergymen of the Church of Scotland, complaining
that they vro re deprived of their rights, in consequence
of the adherence of a majority of the General As-
sembly to a divi,ion which the Scotch Judges and
that House (the House of Lords) had pronounced to be
iilegal. The Noble Lord sail, that in drawing their
Lordships' attention to the petition, he wished to state
that he had given notice not only tci present it,
but of moving for a copy of the indictment
against these gentlemen. His reasons for doing so were
intimately blended, but he assured their Lordships his
observations should be as short as possible, since
however interesting the subject might be to the people of
Scotland he knew it was very uninviting in that House.
He had always held that there was no duty more incum-
bent on a Member of the Legislature than to bring under the
notice of the branch to which he belonged any wrong or in-
justice he might have witnessed, either civil or ecclesi-
be arrested, for if it
Id be no other result
agt
ret
eri
scesa .
po
ef r
tleht
vi
es
rwasel u necessary
r he o t uhcl ado t if possible, the pro-
than that Scotland should be precipated into a state of the
utmost embarrassment. It might have occurred
to some of their Lordships that there might
be some objection in point of form to, a petition
relating to proceedings still pending, but he wished
to rest his case on more extended than merely technical
grounds. This was no question between patrons and prc-
prietors. It was a collision between two great constituted
authorities. On the one side the Legislature and the Courts
of Law were associated with the legitimate authorities
in relation to the Established Church. On the other side
was a Church which contended for independence and
spiritual supremacy, and enforced their opinion in
opposition to the judgment of the Supreme Courts
s f Scotland and England. This was a question
which well deserved attention. It was a question
which would not much longer confine itself to Scotland.
These petitioners asked to be protected and relieved from
severe Persecution, because they yielded prompt and loyal
obedience to, the laws of their country,_( Hear, hear.)
By whtim were they so:persecuted ? By those whose es-
peci i duty it was to inculcate obedience to the law by
their precepts and their practice, and who derivedsthe
power, which he could not but think they abused, from
the Statc.—(Hcar, bear.) He wished to call attention to

antnt; of the proceedings of the General Assembly, which
constituted the foundation of theproceedings now brought
before their Lordships. to 104 an Act was passed by the
General Assembly, called the Veto Act'. The effect of
this Aet was to make it competent for the) heads of
families, being communicants, t 3 reject any minister, salthe
out assigning a motive. This Act was found t.) be a
direct attack upon the legal rights of patrons, who accord-
tiely applied to the laws of their country. But while the
question came to be considered by the General Acsembly,
it was met by a resolution to the effect, that the General
Assembly of the Church of Scotland asknowleeg thy'
kiesel'etion of Civil Courts in matters relating to civil
rights and emolumems of the Church, and the ministers
thereof, and would inculcate obedience to th it decision.
But that it was containe I in the articles of the C.mfes:im
of F tit'i of the Nati teal Church, that the Lord Jeeus had
appointed it a head distinct from the C vii Magieirate, and
that in all things with respect to doctrine and dietpline
that judicature possessed an exclusive jurisdiction, and
that they would enforce subn ission to the same on all
office bearers and memb, ra of the Church. Now if ever
there was a distinct claim of independence and spirituel
supremacy it was contained in this resolution.—( Hear.)
The decision of the Courts of Law in Scotland was con.
firmed by their Lordship? House, ye t, notwithstanding
this, the Act was attempted to b' enforced by the Ge- eral
Assembly. These petitioners having acted in obedience
to the law, had incurred the displeasure of the General
Assembly, and were suspended, and all that remained was
for the Assembly to pronounce sentence of final deposition.
If this were done, he begged to call their Lordship? at-
tention to the Circumstances. By the Act of 1592 all
these pari,hes would become vacant, and the patrons be
deprived of all the profits of the benefices, and it was
open to all the heritors of 1 Ind to refuse to pa" the
minis-
ter his stipend. He would then he obliged to bring, be
kr.e a not how many actions, against he knew not how
many heritors, and would moreover have to pay expenses.
What then would his Noble Friend do? Would be aban-
don or maintain the presentee of the Crown ? If he aban-
doned him he would take part with the Church against
the law ; if he maintained him, be would take the other way.
The General Assembly was about to meet under' y'ry
trying difficulties. The dominant party themselves said
that either of two things must be done,--eilher the. minis.
ters of Stratbbogie must be displaced or the Church of
Sootland would he annihilated. If the latter part of the
alternative should happen it would be the fault of these
gentlemen themselves for not obeying the law. The injury
to the individuals in the prevent case was of littl impor-
ance compared to the evil of allowing matters to rernam as
they were. He regrct'ed that his Noble Friend ( Lord M )
omitted to have declaeed in the first instance that he would
not li'ten to any proposition from the Church, until, as a
preliminary, the law was obeyed. Instead of that course
being taken the whole current of Government patronage
had flowed amongst the supporters of the General Aiseen-
bly.--( Hear, from the Tory Benche'.) He thought the
time was come when something definite should be done.
His Noble Fiend ( Lord Melbourne) ought now, be fore
the meetinit of the General Assembly, to declare explicitly
that the law shall be obeyed. His Noble Friend might
then go further, and say that the question should be taken
into his consideration with a view to set,le the dlfereneas.
If matters were allowed to remain as they were, the conse-
quence would be that these would be two churches in every
parish—one, the support and prop of the State--the other,
the support and prop of the General Assembly. The Noble
Lord concluded by expressing his hope that his Noble
Friend would express a firm and decided determination to
enforce the law.

The Duke of ARGYLL was glad that the subject had
been brought so fully before the House, and he trusted
that some measure would be adopted for settling this long-
, disputed question.
Viscount MELBOURNE said his Noble Friend had
gone into the whole of this question. He had properly
stated that this was a question between the Church of
Scotland and the high legal authorities. When his Noble
Friend said he trusted the Government would support
civil rights, he had no hesitation in saying that it would do
so ; but when he went on to say that he hoped he would
introduce some legislative measure for the settlement of
the question, he could not give any promise to that effect.
Under a Constitution like ours, composed of so many dif-
ferent bodies, cliff ren:cs of this kind would arise ; but it
was not in such cases tl e duty of the Government imme-
diately to interfere to prevent them. Ile ssaa not svilline,
upon the expectation of certain conduct in the Assembly,
to join in any measure affecting their rights. He would
not undertake to introduce any measure altering the con-
stitution of the Church of Scotland. Until he saw some
other ground than yet existed, he would not hod himself
to a step of which he could not see the result. His Neb'e
Friend had made some complaints of the conduct of the
Government with reference to this matter. Toe Govern-
ment had stated to the Assembly their disapproval of the
conduct which had been pursued ; and he ( Lord Mel-
bourne) did not see wh it adv intag,e would have been de-
rived from breaking off all commuaiceton with them ; in
his opinion, it would only have iner,a,ed their violence.
Unquestionably the Government would maintain and sup-
port the law, but he could not give any promise of a dis-
tinct measure on the subject.
The Earl of ABERDEEN wished to say a few words
on this subject. The only offence charged against these
men was, their obedience to the law, as it bad been laid
down by this House. Throughout they had done nothing
except in compliance with judgments delivered against
themselves. They bad done nothing but what, if they
had done it of themselves, would have laid them open to
censure. The. Noble Viscount said he would maintain
and uphold the law, but be would not interfere to put an
end to their diff•rcnce=. Why, the dominant party in the
Church refused to submit themselves to the judgments of
that House ! Were their• Lordships prepared to sanction
that conduct? When the State recognised and endowed
them as an Est iblished Church, they imposed' certain
conditions upon them. If they were to resist the Act un-
der which they had existed as an establishment, how
could the laws be maintained, except by me isures for
compelling their •submission ? (Hear, hear, hear )
As the law at present stood it was openly violated and co❑-
temned, and he trusted it would not be allowed to con-
tinue in such a position. He would not say there was
ac:ually rebellion, because they were apt to connect that
word with acts of violence, and certainly, although these
P►ev. Gentlemen had not arms in their hands, they
indulged in the must violent and inflammatory harangues.
It appeared to him that the present Government were in-
directly countenancing these parties—they had lately ap-
pointed to a Professorship in Edinburgh one of the most
violent of these reverend agitators. It appeared to him,
that if the matter was properly taken up, there was little
doubt a measure might be framed which would at once
afford the requisite protection to the law, and put an end
to the present most disgraceful agitation. He hoped, not-
withstanding the little interest the subject excited in that
House, that her Majesty's Government would grapple
with the question in a spirit of earnestness, and set it
finally at rest. They must eventually decide whether or
not the law should he supported.

The Marquis of NORIMANBY said be did not profess
himself competent to crappie fully with the subject, but
the answer which his Noble Friend near him had given to
the Noble Eatl was the only answer he could give—.
namely, that it was the determination of the Govern-
ment t maintain and uphold the laws. He thought the
charge of the whole stream of Government patronage
having flowed towards those who violated the law,
was not warranted by the facts. So far as
he (the Marquis of Normanby) was concerned, from
the time he had held the seals of his present office it had
bean his anxious endeavour to discharge his duty without
favour towards any party. As regarded Church patronage
in Scotland, in all cases of doubt it had been the practice of
the Government to. appoint a leet, and he understood the
practice had given very general satisfaction. With regard
to the appointment to which the Noble Earl had referred,
be had made inquiries into the character and attainments
of the individual and his capabilities of filling a situation
so intimately connected with the doctrines and practice of,
the Church of Scotland, and he understood the appoint-
ment had given very general satisfaction. He would add,
however, that the Professorship was not intended to be a
permanent appointment.
Lord MELVILLE said, unless some decided steps were
taken by the Government to viadicate thelaw, their snore
declarations of their intention to do so would be worth
nothing. They should call upon the Lord Advocate to
protect those who obeyed the law.
The Marquis of NORMANBY explained.
The Earl of RODEN implodid their Lordships not to
come to any decision respecting the pettion umii some op-
portunity had been afforded to the Assembly of the Church
of Scotland for explaining what had induced them to
adopt the course they had pursued. He was certain the
eminent men composing that Assembly must have had
some reason for the course they were pursuing. They
might be in error, but from what he knew of them be felt
convinced that they were actuated by conscientious mo-
tives. There was no Church which had improved moTe in
its ministers than the Church of Scotland had within the
last few years.. He held in his hand a petition from the
Presbyterian Church in Ireland, praying for thn teal
abolition of patronage, but he did not believe the Church
of Scotland desired any such thing.—( Hear, hear.) All
they desired was that certain impedimenta which the law
threw in the way of the execution of their duty should be
removed. He trusted the Assembly in Edinburgh would
pause bef;re they came to any determimed resolution, and
would take the advice oftheir best friends.
The Earl of HAD DINGTON said that other oppor-
tunities would arise to satisfy the mind of his Noble
Friend on the question. He would implore him to decline
taking any part until he had thoroughly satisfied himself,
by fully investigating the question. The Presbyterian
Church in Ulster was in a very different situation from the
Church of Scotland. Nothing could be more likely to
encourage the Church of Scotland in the course they were
pursuing, than the Government acting as they had done,
is giving up the Government Church patronage into the
hands of the congregation. The interdict of the Court
f Session, which was the law, had been treated with
the greatest contempt by the Church of Scotland. How
would the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack treat
any parties who should treat his injetiction with the same
sort of contempt and defiance ? The evils which would
result from the deposition of these ministers, would be in-
' calculable, and he beseeched the Government to adopt
measures to prevent it.
The Marquis of NORMANBY said that the practice of
the Government of leaving the appointment of ministers to
tho Crown livings by the congregations had been adopted
le's re these troubles had commenced.
The petitions were then laid on the table.
MR. STANLEY.
The Earl of GLENGALL in bringing forward the

' motion of which he Lad given notice, relatiner to the falsi.
ficatiene of the returns from the Poor-law Commissioners
in Ireland, felt it would not be necessary for him to dilate
at any length upon the grave nature of the offence which
had been committed. It laid been clearly proved that the
renerns were incorrect, and them could be no doubt that a
breech of privilege had been committed ; hui it was more
than tbrit, tt was a gross contempt of their Lordship's
House. He be it was the first instance of such an
offence having been committed. In the returns which had
bcea ordered, certain lettere were incorrectly given, and
others were placed in a position calculated to mislead.
He concurred in this transaction, and the Poor-law Corn-
missiett Office had acted ha a way in which soother public
department vsaeld presume to do. There rasa another
point of importance—ersamely, dint it appeared to be the
npision of the Commissicarcers that in their corresponderce
it was not necessary to confine themselves to met], and
that, csnsevently, they were in tits habit of writing that
whieh Was convenient rather than that which was true.
He thought there had not been for many yews an investi-
gation of greater Importance, and their Lordships' would
think so if they would reflect that it was upon this Act that
the future franchises of the people of Irchind would in all
probabiiity be based. He regretted to say that be found
it very difficult to reconcile with truth the evidence that
bad been given at their Lordships' bar ; but, on this point
he should reserve himself for a future oppnr:unity. Sup-
posing their Lardshiss should adopt his resonation, he was
not desirous that arty very severe punishmeet should be
inflicted in consequence, for he could not but think Mr.
Stanley had been the dupe of persems subtler than him-
self.—( Hear, hear.) He could Oat reconcile it to his
mind that there were no motives for this transaction. lie
.did not wish to -enter upon discussion of motives, but he
trusted the DI b 1 c Marquio(Norm'anby) would not, by Lis I
reply compel him to throw aside the pruning knife he was
disposed to apply, and to take up the axe.--( Hear, hear. )
He therefore begged leave to move, h That Mr. William
Stanley, Secretary of the Poor-law Commissioners in Ire-
land did, in eontempt of the authority of this House, make
an alteration lee paper ordered to be laid before this
House after the order of this House had been received by
him."—( lima hear. )
The Earl of WICKLOW felt himself bound to state
that he thought the resolution proposed was more severe
than the circumstances of the case required. He could not
think that any thing more was intended by Mr. Stanley
than to remove a dieercpsncy, and that he had acted with-
out the instigati mof any either person. But if such were
he
rt,hi
sohuegdh. t
NI r.O
eShtaartigt ee
oureern ortu
ptthi
oe
nperson
int:hdeo
tashouldhge,iat
that gentleman, and, under these circumstances,
be
he could not Y3te for the pre eat motion, although, if it
'e
had spoken only of r breach of privilege, he should not
have made any remark upon it. He thought the Noble
Marquis had done an act of great !Injustice in dismissing
that gentleman before the House had Centre to any decision
upon it. In saying this he thought he was only doing an
act of simple justice to an individual.
Lord EL L ENBOROUG II said that Mr. Stanley was
the only person selected for punishment, because he was
the only person with whom, at the present tim-, the House
was able to di at. He felt that a great contempt of the
authority of the House had been committed, and that it
was incumbent upon the Eionee to visit it with such a
punishment as would tend to preclede a repetition of it
at any future time.—( Hear, hear-)
The Marquis of NORMAN BY said he felt it nccrc-
sary, in his own defence, to offer a few remarks an what
had fallen from his Noble Friend, the Earl of W:eltlote.
He was glad that some of his remarks had been antici-
psted by the Noble Baron (Lord Ellcnborough.) Though
he was anxious that any appeal on behalf of this gentle-
man should have its fall weight upon the House, when
his Noble Friend said he (the Marquis of Normanby) had
acted with injustice, he begged to call his attention to the
situation in which the Government would be placed if it
had appeared to ivtive connived at such an act as that which
had been the subject of investigation. He had before
stated that, however unimportant some parts of this cast
might appear to be, a great constitutional question was
involved ia securing the correctness of the Returns or.
dered by either House of Parliament. This much of the
act itself, in considering which and its consequences, be
did hope their Lordships would also consider the
period at a hich it took place, the limited esta-
blishment with which this great experiment commenced,
and the momentous business which, for the first few
months,, pressed upon them. As to the resolution of con-
tempt of the authority of the House, he could net but
think that every person who bad beard the evidence would
think that Mr. Stanley had been guilty of that offence.
He was glad to hear his Noble Friend show a distinction
with respect to the motives. Mr. Stanley had a motive to
conceal his error, but unfortunately had not presence of
mind to avow it ; nevertheless, no word should fall from
him (tbe Marquis of Normanby) to induce their Lord-
ships to deal harshly with this case. But if their Lord-
ships thought it of importance that every person con-
' nected with the important duty of carrying out this mea=
sure should be above suspicion, he trusted they would also
be of opinion that the Government would not discharge
their duty if they did not dismiss from his situation au in-
dividual, who, by evidence at their Lordships' bar; had
been proved guilty of such nn offence as this. His
Noble Friend bad cautioned him (the Marquis of
Normanby) not to provoke him to exchange the
pruning knife fur the ate. He (the Marquis of Nor-
manbs) did not know whether it was intended that on his
devoted head that axe should fall, but even at the
risk of incurring such a penalty, he would say that he be-
lieved that it was the intention of the Commissioners to
execute the law with impartiality, and that not only was
such the intention of the Government, but that they bad
adopted all the me ins in their power for the purpose.
The evidence of Mr. Herne proved this to base been the
intention of the Government, and he said that he bad
never seen a Government so determined in every respect
not to interfere with the distribution of patronage. His
Noble Friend had alluded to a mysterious veil that still I
hung over the matter, an I which his knowledge of
Cloumrl w old enable him to penetrate; but of this he
(the Marquis of Nix:flat-thy) knew nothing but the evidence
at their Lordships' bar. He thought the act committed by
Mr. Stanley was such that he could not be c mtinued in
his present situation ; but, at, the same time, it was but
justice to that gentleman to say, that all who knew him
spoke of him as a gentleman of unimpeachable integrity.
Considering the importance of carrying out this Act in
Ireland, he agreed with his Noble Friend that it was all
important that the Poor-law Commissioners should not
suffer the slightest bias to influence them in the appoint-
ment of any officer.
After a few words from Lord ELLENBOROUGH
and the Marquis of W E STM EA T
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he conceived the
resolution was very correctly worded, and that the Heese
must pass that resolution. He had contended all along
that it was not Mr. Stanley, or any inferior person, who
was to be the subject of their Lordships' considera-
tion, but the conduct of the Poor-law Commissioners
themselves.—( Hear, hear.) He had consented to the
Bill, and joined in passing it on the principle that it should
be fairly carried into execution. He bad been entirely dis-
appointed, and as to this matter he was resolved to probe it
to the very bottom. There were other cases, and he would
re id every line of the papers, and search if there was not
the same corruption in each of them as in this one. To do
justice to thegentry and men of property in Ireland who
wee in the hands of these miscreants, they must force them
to do justice.—( Hear, hear.) There was another case of
one of the returning officers who had been cot.victed of
forgery, and had been ie the hulks, yet who was now exe-
cuting that office and toe power connected with it in Ire.
land. He had Cie proof ia his pocket that it was the same
man. It was said that no quest oos had been asked respect..
ing him, except whether he was related to a person called
an Archbishop. Now that he (the Duke of Wellington)
called stuff.—( Hear, hear.) Tney could not do justice to
Ireland unless they took the subject fully into considera-
tion, and took precautions to carry the Act fairly into exc.
ention.—( Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of NORMANBY explained that, on a
former occasion with reference to this individual, he bad
merely stated that be had been informed that there was a
doubt of the identity of the party, which, however, he
found had been since removed. So venial, however, was
the offence considered, that the clerk of the peace in whose
service he was, had afterwards retained him in a confiden-
tial situation. The offence was that of attempting to pro-
cure for another party a soldier's pension after the death of
the pensioner.
Tue Duke of WELLINGTON made a few observe-
lions that were inaudible.

The Marquis of W E STM EAT H said the Roman Ca-
tholic Clergy had made this a religious question altogether.
He rejoiced at the manner in which the Noble Du►te had
taken it up.
The Karl of GLENG ALL replied, he was satisfied that
their Lordships would be convinced, when the Clonmel
case came to be sified thoroughly, that his ststemei,ts
were well founded. He did not think one•batf the truth
had yet come out. He was surprised to hear the Noble
Marquis term Mr. Stanley's situation one of no conse-
quence, because the salary was only from 10/. to 30/. per
annum. Why, in a Parliamentary borough, like Clonmel,
the office of returning officer was a most important oue,
and be might, by a particular mode of valuing the town,
return any man he pleased. He contended that the
motives for these appointments, and all the evidence fully
bore out that statement.

The motion was then agreed to, and ordered to be en-
tered on the Journals of the House.
The Earl of GLENGALL then moved that Mr. Stanley
be ordered to attend at the bar of the House on the 14th
instant.
The Marquis of NORMANBY had reason to thit.k
that the dignity of the House would be sufficiently satisfied
without proceeding further. He thought the House had
inflicted sufficient punishment without calling him to the
bar. That, however, was a question for their Lordships'
consideration, but he would temind them that Mr. Nichols
stated at the bar on his oath that Mr. Stanley's state of
health and nervousness was such, from even an examination
at their Lordships' Lar, that he believed it would endanger
his life if he hid remained another day in attendance. He
put it to their Lordships, therefore, whether their dignity
had not been sufficiently vindicated without proceeding
further.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought the course his
Noble Friend had adopted was the most lenient that could
be Liken. But after the statement of the Noble Marquis
that Mr. Stanley no longer held office under the Corn_
aii3sioners, and that his health was likely to suffer, he
thought they might be satisfied with having that statement
entered in the Journals.
The Earl of GLENGALL, under the circumstances,
would not press his motion.

tension.
Col. VERNER presented a petition from the cootity-
of Armagh, against any further grants to the College or
Maynooth.
Mr, E. BULLER presented a petition, praying f
the abolition of Church-rates.
Mr. CHILDERS presented a petition in favour of fre t
trade, and the abolition of all monopoly.
Mr. BAINES presented a petition from the inhabitant a
of a district of London, praying that some alteration b e
made in the Corn-laws.
Mr. STRICKLAND presented several petitions froi
Saddleworth and other places in Lancashire in favour c f
a repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. AYSHFORD SANFORD presented petition s
fßom Somersetshire and other places, praying for tb
abolis:".ion of Ecclesiastical Courts.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
Mr. WALLACE gave notice that he should move Ao--
morrow that the Petition of \Vm. Mackie, complaining of
the injustice of the Local Courts of Scotland, be priteted
with the Votes, as he iNended calling the attentlion of tote,.
House to it. •
Mr. G. PALMER gave notice that when the Presi- .
dent of the Board of Trade should move the order of the..
day for going into Committee on the British Possessions s
Bill, ho should move that the said Committee be post- •
poned. The Hon. Member also moved fot an account of
the securities given by the official assignees in the Court ;
of Bankruptcy.
BOROUGH OF SANDWICH.
On the motion of Mr. E. J. STANLEY, a new writ •
was ordered to be issued for the election of a new Member
for the boiough of Sandwich, in the roots Of Sir &dame
Danain, deceased.
Colonel SIBTHORP inquired whether it were triae, as
generally reported, that Mr. Gordon, Secretary of ;he
Treasury had resigned ?—(Laughter.) Also, whether it
was the intention of the GiNernment to proaae.ed dust
evening with the Civil Couting,:neles ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he should not answer- tile
first question—(Laughter)—end with regard to the secant',
it was not the intention of the Goverument to proceed thmt
evening with the Civil Contingeecies —(Loud laughter.)
REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (IRELAND).
Mr. \V. S. O'BRIEN begged to ask the Noble Land
the Member fur North Lancashire, imther it was his
intention ti brieg in the Registration of Voters' (Ireland)
Bill or. Wednesday next.
Lord STANLEY said it was not his intenti an to
proceed with the Nil on Wednesday. He should, ft, i• th
present posipone it for a fortnight, and he should
care that Gentlemen on both sides of the House wet tld.
have ample notice of the time when he intended to brit 'g
it forward.
The order was then read, and postponed for a fortnight.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
Mr. GISBORNE begged to ask whether it was the
intention of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) to bring
on the Criminal Justice Bill after the Punishment of
Death Bill that evening.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied in the affirmative.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. HANDLEY rose to call the attention of rho
House to a bleach cf its privileges. He could not sup.
pose that it was possible that the occasion should ever
have arisen when be should have been obliged to.
tress ass on its atterdon in a matter personal to'.
himsetf; but he bad b.en made tl e subject of miss-
representation so gross and so unjustifiable, and the •
matter was calculated to prejudice him so much out of
doors, that le.? had nothing left f.,r it but to throw himself
upon the indulgence of the House.—( Hear, hear.) It
would be in she lezellection of the House that on Friday
r

last the Hot,. Aleinber for Lincolnshire (Mr. Chris-

tophcr) Lad addressed some remarks which appcarred to
him, to use the Hon. Member's own phrase, as mere
electLuJering clap-trap, as regarded the Noble Lord his
colleague and himself (Mr. Handley). He (Mr. Handley)
on that occasion stated that whenever the question of the
Corn-l Ans came on for discussion he should be fully pre-
pared to meet it—from whatever quarter the subject was
presented he should be found to do his duty to his consti-
tuents and the public.—(Loud cheers.) These were be
believed the precise words—(Loud cheers)—they were
the only words that he had used on that coca-
sion.—(Loud cheers.) The House would therefore
judge of his surprise when on reading the Morning
Chronicle of the next morning—a paper which, he might
be allowed to say en passant, seemed to misrepresent alt
the gentlemen on biz side of the House except the Hon.
Member for Leicester—(Cheering and laughter from the
Opposition benches)—the House would judge of his stir-
prise to find himself made the subject of the following ob-
servations :—" Mr. Handley- approved of the manner
in which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had men.
tioned the subject of the Corn-laws. When the
proper time came be should be quite ready to
second the Right Honourable Gentleman before
him in dealing with the various details of that important
measure."—( Renewed laughter.) Now it might be mat. ,
ter of laughter to Hon. Members—(Cries of " Hear,
hear," from both sides of the House)—but he thought lit ,
need not declare to those who were present or
that occasion that not one single sentence then attribute 1
to him had fallen from his lips.—( Hear, hear.) He 55i d
nothing from which such an opinion could be inferrld; b .es
entei tamed no such opinion, and he did net hesitate UP S'
not only that he did not approve of the manner in which ie
introduced to the House, but so far from being "ready to
second the Right Hon. Gentleman in dealing with et itl
various details of that important subject," if it depends
upon his vote, he should not have an opportunity
of considering the question at all.—(Loud cheat)
There was no man more willing than himself to
Fake
every allowance for the onerous duties of g"tienlf that
fleeted with the press who reported the proeeedingse,
they
e°rmost sound
House. On most occasions, he must ackuowite-dedg him
at
did not do him injustice, for they seldom P
which he had
convey r
all, in which he had no doubt theyexercisedreskti
discretion. On other occasions when any reaar
ed• once or
made had been mistaken, which bad P
bBPt ettat the same
Honourable Atember A
twice, he had thought it sufficient to r.olsokeeg
columns which had conveyed the nest
wouldict a bininesgtuhaokt
mistake
ch.rortide should !lava
thousand channels. The
the correction. But he thou:ra:t
would allow that in this case
copied into. the provincid
the refutation could meet all
tiun to him that the Mornin9
offered him its columns to co
hdaedhabteeesnincirtchiailtateHdotubserouwgehrea
likely
acres. It would be obvious to every one that the an-
, i fFriend
or htaod naont
papers,hi costai tnude ni tt
sw, assp rneltd as they were, over a million of
Phl3:Zeasthimmainn
nouncement of hi
s•
a time under a cloud of doubt and
a situation
lying for
He felt that a misreyresenta-
there was but one course,--but had plaeod him in.
situation of
tion like that could not have originated in inadvei tepee or
nes
mistake. Painful as it was at all times to attribute motives
to any one, he confessed he was at a loss to ascertain why
gross injustice should have bees per-
this palpable and
petrated upon him.. He was quite sure that mono
of those Honourable Gentlemen who were his po-
litical opponents would avail themselves of such dirty
means.—(Cheers from the Conservative benches.) He
was more inclined to think, whoever bad rut this misre-
presentation in words in the Morning Chronicle, sought;
if possiLle, to get some little advantage in carrying out the
principle which 'they advocated, and which bad betto an-
nounced by
his Right Hon. Friend below him, by having
it in their power to say that even so bumble
an individual as himself, representing a large agricurtural
district, had changed his opinions on this subject. It was
enough for him to say on this cccasion that such was not
the case.—(Cheers.) He felt that he must leave the
matter entirely in the hands of the House. He was
grateful for the indulgence which they had afforded to
him in bearing this statement. He would only observe
that what bad happened to him in this instance might
happen to any Hon. Member before him. If they
should think that it was necessary to the vindication of
the privivileges of that House, or to freedom of discus:
sion, that further notice should be taken of it, the matter ~
was in their hands. It only remained for him, in the com-
mon form adopted on these occasions, to move "-That