The Sun.
London, England, 1870-06-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, JUNE 21, 1870

been called to the subject, but he did not think it would
be necessary to introduce any measure on the subject,
as the Government proposed to reduce the inland postage
of circulars to one halfpenny, and he thought that would
meet the case.

NEW LAW COURTS.
Lord EUSTACE CECIL asked when the long promised
plans of the New Law Courts would be laid upon the
table of the House.

Mr. AYRTON said he should be glad if he could name a
day. The extreme difficulty of settling all claims was the
cause of the delay.
RATING PUBLIC BUILDINGS.
- -

Mr. CAWLEY asked when the proposed Bill for the
Rating of Public Buildings would be brought on.
Mr. GOSCHEN said that at this advanced stage of the
session it would be, he feared, hopeless to attempt to pass
a bill which would affect many interests, and which would
give rise to a long discussion.
THE EDUCATION BILL.

Mr. PELL asked the Vice-President of the Committee
of Council on Education whether there was any provision
in the Elementary Education Bill as recommitted, securing
a limit in the pound to the local rates to be raised with
respect to education ; and, if so, where in the bill such
provision may be found.

Mr. FORSTER said the provision had been struck out
because a larger parliamentary grant would be given out
of the parliamentary vote to all public elementary
schools.

THE HORSE DUTY.
Mr. WELBY asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
whether, as for the fliture it will not be necessary
for farmers to take out licences for horses which
might be occasionally employed in drawing road
materials, he will recommend that the duty
which had already been paid in such cases this year be
remitted by the Board of Inland Revenue.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER : No, sir, I am
not prepared to make such a recommendation. (Laughter.)
ENGLISH MAILS TO INDIA.
Mr. STACPOOLE asked the Postmaster-General whether
any contract had been made for the carriage of the Eng-
lish mails to India via Brindisi.
The Marquis of HARTINGTON replied that the Post-office
had made no contract for the carriage of English mails
via Brindisi. A supplemental mail was despatched via
Brindisi, and a certain payment was made to the Italian
Government. In order to cover that payment an addi-
tional charge was levied of threepence per half- ounce and
one penny per four ounces of newspapers.
THE SPEAKER AND THE UNIVERSITY OF
OXFORD.
The SPEAKER informed the House that he had been in-
vited to attend at the University of Oxford on Wednesday
next, in order that an honorary degree might be conferred
upon him, and he asked the permission of the House to
attend on that occasion.
Mr. GLADSTONE, who congratulated the Speaker on
receiving another mark of distinction, proposed that Mr.
Dodson take the chair on Wednesday.
Mr. DISRAELI, who expressed his gratification at the
honour which the Speaker was going to receive, seconded
the motion, which was carried unanimously.
THE EDUCATION BILL.
Dr. LYON PLAYFAIR asked the Vice President of the
Council whether the term " forthwith," at the end of
Clause 9, in the amended Elementary Education Bill,
means that the year of grace is now abandoned, and that
the measure, if it pass into law, will at once come into
operation.
Mr. FORSTER replied that it had not been thought
necessary to preserve what had been called the year of
grace in the Education Bill, and there would be an addi-
tional Parliamentary grant proposed. The measure as
soon as it became law would come into operation.
On the motion for the Speaker leaving the chair, on
going into committee on the Elementary Education (re-
committed) Bill,
Mr. H. RICHARD moved to insert the words that " the
grants to existing denominational schools should not be
increased, and that in any national system of elementary
education, the attendance should be everywhere compulsory,
and that religious instruction should be supplied by volun-
tary effort, and not out of public funds. In the course of
his speech he said he was happy to have received from
the Prime Minister most important and candid admis-
sions. He had acknowledged that that was really the
only logical position they could take to escape the objec-
tions raised by Nonconformists. However, the right hon.
gentleman had said that he did not think it implied the
slightest disrespect to religious teaching. The hon.
gentleman endeavoured to shew that the religious educa-
tion given in the day schools was nothing comparatively
speaking. He was of opinion that if the State trained the
faculties of the young, the religious bodies of the country
would educate them in religion.
Sir CHARLES DILKE seconded the amendment. He
challenged the Government to disprove that the country
was favourable to compulsion, and said that no one had
ventured to call the bill a national education measure,
and that it did not correspond with the anticipations of
the country.
Mr. G. HARDY pointed out that the amendment did
not address itself to the bill, but to something
which the Prime Minister had stated on Thurs-
day night. He denied that the religious diffi-
sulty was raised by the people themselves. It was a
cry raised in London, and was carried into the country,
where the people were unaware of the difficulty until it
was pointed out by those in authority. He deprecated
the abandonment of the " year of grace," and remarked
that there was no necessity for such great expedition as
" forthwith." He pointed out the difficulty of finding
teachers, and contended that there was a large number of
schools which might be efficient if they could only pro-
cure efficient teachers. The right hon. gentleman at
great length advocated religious instruction, and sug-
gested that those who were in favour of a secular system
of education should found secular schools, which by the
bill would receive State aid.
Mr. MELLY addressed the House, but as soon as he rose
there was quite an exodus of members. He criticised the
main features of the measure, and expressed his disap-
proval of the system of education which it would intro-
duce.
Sir SAMUEL MORLEY contended that the people were
opposed to secular education. He was against any system
which should attempt to mould the character of the people
by enforcing a system which would wither up all that
was fresh and vital in religion. He objected to com-
pulsion, except as an ulterior resource. If it had not
been for religious men what would education have been ?
After some remarks from Mr. Hope,
Dr. LYON PLAYFAIR addressed the House. He said
that he was not prepared at present to exclude religion
from schools.
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON spoke of the importance of the
measure, and expressed his approval of the tolerant
manner in which the member for Merthyr Tydvi] had
introduced his motion. He hoped that concessions would
be made on both sides of the House. He did not object
to the exclusion of the catechism or formularies, but they
had heard from the Prime Minister that the people were
in favour of religious instruction. Religion must be the
basis of education.
Mr. FORSTER, on behalf of the Government, stated the
reasons why they could not accept the amendment, and
also made some remarks on the changes which had been
made in the bill. He said their attention had been almost
entirely directed to the ireligious difficulty rather than to
the general scope and provisions of the measure. He
was afraid that " difficulty" would possess their minds
until they went into committee, when other important
provisions would have to be considered. The religious
difficulty was one which they made for themselves. This
" difficulty" had for the last ten years or more kept the
children of England in ignorance, and it depended upon
the House whether their young should be kept
another ten years in ignorance, He did not
think the proposition as to the reading of the
Bible without note or comment ought to trouble their
minds much. Those who talked about it had not been
inside a school, inasmuch as it was well known that the
schoolmaster did not teach theological dogmas, but the
simple truths of religion. He stated on behalf of the
Government that the House need not expect any further
changes in the matters of which the clause treated. The
bill, he contended, was a measure of Rational education.
It paved the way to the future attendance of every child,
it protected the conscientious feelings of the parent, and
provided the means of education.
At the conclusion of the right hon. gentleman's speech,
the debate was adjourned on the motion of Mr. Miall.
STAMP DUTY ON LEASES BILL.
This bill was read a third time.
POST OFFICE BILL.
The Marquis of HARTINGTON moved the second reading
of the above bill, the main principle being the reduction
of the pcstage on certain descriptions of matter from ld.
to id.
The second reading was agreed to.
CATTLE DISEASES.
Mr. C. FORTESCUE obtained leave to bring in a bill to
amend " The Cattle Diseases (Ireland) Act, 1866."

PILOTAGE BILL COMMITTEE.
A discussion took place on the motion of Mr. Shaw
Lefevre that Mr. Childers be discharged from further at-
tendance on the Select Committee on the Pilotage Bill,
and that Mr. Baxter be added to the committee. It was
objected that Mr. Baxter was unacquainted with the evi-
dence which had been taken, and therefore was not com-
petent to give an opinion on the subject.
Sir S. IBBETSON moved the adjournment of the debate.
The House divided on the motion, which was lost.
After some further discussion, Mr. Lefevre seeing the dis-
position of the House, withdrew his motion.
The House adjourned at ten minutes to two.