The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-28 00:00:00

his opinion, and every day's experienUconVinced him, that the
state of famine in Ireland was a gross delusion ; and the Noble
Lord added, that a greater delusion was never, in his opinion,
palmed upon the country by any Government. The
Noble Lord proceeded to argue that because the
fact was that the price of potatoes was 41. a stone, there was
no pressure on the people of that country. Now, Sir, I beg
to explain in what the real difficulty lies. The price of pota-
toes cannot be taken as a criterion of the state of things in
Ireland. I may observe, in passing, that the price of 4d. per
stone is exactly double what it is on ordinary occasions ; and
however trifling this may appear to the Hou,e and the Noble
Lord, the difference between 2d. and 4d. is a question of some
100 per cent. to four millions of persons in Ir,•land. Then
the Noble Lord referred to the small exports from Ireland, and
drew the inference from thence that no destitution existed in
that country. I think it rather argues that apprehensions of
famine were entertained. But, Sir, it may be said that this
view of this question might be taken by the Noble Lord the
Member for Lynn, independent of the condition of Ireland.
But the actual state of that country has been confirmed by the
statements of other Hon. Members, although an Hon. Mem-
ber of high authority—l mean the Recorder of the City of
Dublin—has stated that there was gross exaggeration in those
statements. .

Mr. SHAW—I said "great exaggeiation," not 6' gross."
Sir JA NIES GRAHAM—With "great" exaggeration.—
(Laughter.) Now, I hope the House will bear with me while
I read some extracts in reference to this subject, which is in
the shape of e idence, and which is deserving of attention, for
it really has now became a matter of great importance. The
information which reached me in the month of October last, in
reference to the state of Ireland, was of such a character as
confirmed me of the necessity that existed for the introduction
of this measure, although that was not the only reason I had
for doing so. In the month of November last I received a
letter from the Secretary of the Agricultural Society of Ire-
land, at my private residence, which I shall now read. I
should premise by stating that the Agricultural Society of Ire-
land is an institution bearing the same character as the Agri-.
cultural Society of. England, and numbers amongst its mem-
bers the Duke of Leinster, Lord Downshire, Loi d Shannon,
and many others of the most respectable nobility and gentry in
that country. That letter is to this effect. (Here the Right
Hon. Baronet read the letter, the substance of which was that
the writer enclosed extracts from the Dublin morning
papers, containing accounts of the measures which
the Irish Agricultural Society had taken in refer-
ence to the state of the potato crop.) I received
several letters in answer, stating that the disease was
not spreading, but I subsequently received letters from
most of the 120 associations, assuring me that the disease was
increasing. I may state there is not a county in Ireland, that
is not more or less affected by the disease ; and my office is
filled with specimens of the diseased potato. The council of
the society have directed their labours to obtain information
on the subject, and to transmit the same to the entire society ;
and they are of opinion that enough has transpired to gratify
them in calling on the Government to take immediate steps
in the matter.—( Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, with that letter
came another from ,the colleague of the Hon. Gentleman,
bearing date 18th October, in which the Hon, Gentleman
stated that he was sorry it would not be in his power to attend
the council of the society, as be apprehended the accounts that
would be received from the different parts of the kingdom
would confirm the failure; and that, therefore, the matter
should be brought at once under the notice of Government. I
will now refer to a representation made in the month of Oc-
tober last from the secretary of this society, and such was the
urgency of the case that the secretary w: ote to me in the
letter I have just read to the House. I will now shortly state
to the House what is the. more recent information that the
Government has received. The Member for Lynn declared
that these statements were the grossest—most palpaple deceits
ever palmed upon the country by any Government. I will
now read a letter which I received from a gentleman in the
county of Waterford, and dated the 19th of March. It is from
the commissary resident there to the commissary in the city
of Dublin. It stated that the price of potatoes
was so high that they were no longer used in
the poor-houses. They have been discontinued and
bread substitoted. The price of potatoes is 6d. per stone, and
therefore quite beyond the reach of the poor. A subsequent
letter, dated the 21st of March, stated that the proportion of
potatoes destroyed in Waterford, was one-third or one-half of
the whole crop. In every case where the potatoes had been
pitted, they had been found in such a state as to be fit only for
manure. Except in Wexford, where the crop is said to be in
a tolerable state of preservation, there is some reason for think-
ing that the same state of things exists throughout all the dis-
trict which this Gentleman is commissary. I said to the
House, on a former occasion, that we were only in the begin-
ning of this most formidable calamity, and it is now proved
that the seed of the diseased potato is not to be relied on. A
crop of potatoes, landed in January, were exported, and in
even,' case the seed was found to be rotten. Even in the pits
of those persons who had sunk them deep, the potatoes were
smoking from decomposition. In a letter from a coast-guard,
residing in the Isle of Man, to his officer, he reports that there
is a universal rot in the potato crop ; in fact they were so bad
that they were shoveling them away, instead of picking by
the hand, according as the crop was dug out. One
person, with a family of six children, stated to him
that his crop had been reduced to one-third. Ireland was di-
vided into 2,000 electoral divisions, and from the reports which
they had received, they found that, taking the average, more
than one-half of the potato crop was totally destroyed. In a
letter which hail been addressed from Colonel M'Arthutsto the
Commander of the forces, the following passage occurred :
" The difference in the price of the potatoes was one-third
more than it was at a corresponding period." The communi-
cation is from Mr. Redmond, of Carrick-on-Suir ; it is dated
on the Ist of March, and states that the disease in potatoes pre-
vails in the largest extent ; that one person, had purchased
as many as 1,500 barrels of potatoes, and that, with the excep-
tion of a few barrels, they were all found to be in a putrid
state. At a meeting which was to be held on the Bth March
at Fermoy, at which Lord Mountcashel presided, this matter
of the loss of the potatoes was felt to be of the utmost import-
ance ; and resolutions were unanimously passed expressing that
fact. One of those resolutions stated the potatoes were then
selling at did. per stone.
Mr. SH A W—That is a weight and a half.
Sir J. GRAHAM—Yes; but what is the reason of this
price? The 4id. was not for sound potatoes—not for those
which were free from taint, but for those which were in a putrid
state. The consequence was that these were found to be as
dear as oatmeal or fiver. Then comes a resolution that the
actual state of the potatoes was known to be such that the
people were selling those potatoes for the purchase of oatmeal.
From Lord Mountcashel's personal examination, both of the
pits and barrels, it was found that in some places one-third
and olie-half in others, were entirely destroyed.
Those, poor people were possessed of small cabins, and if they
were obliged to go into the workhouse, they would have to
part with all their furniture, and the parties who had projected
the meeting, therefore, felt it their bounden duty to bring the
matter under the consideration of the Executive Government,
and the Poor-law Commissioners, in order that some mode
might be defined, for bringing some relief, by giving them a supply
of cheap food, or giving them food gratuitously. It .appeared,
from accurate statements, that the people in that, district were
actually obliged to sub,ist on potatoes not fit to make starch of,
and which, of course, were not fit for the food of man.—( Hear,
hear.) And yet, after all this, the Right Honourable
Gentleman bad said that the reports of the panic in Ire-
land were gross exaggerations.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
And now, for the purpose of ascertaining whether
those reports were a gross exaggeration, let us take other
proofs. The Lord-Lieutenant on Monday last received a de-
putation from the city of Limerick—no small district, com-
prising as it doss an immense number of inhabitants. What
was the representation made by that deputation to the Lord-
Lieutenant? I understand that that deputation consisted of
the Mayor of Limerick, Sir David Roche, and other men of
equal respectability and wealth. The Right Hon. Gentleman
will, I think, admit that a more respectable deputation could
not have been composed out of the inhabitants of Limerick.
They state that the destitution of Limerick and the neigh-
bourhood arises from a supply of bad potatoes. The state-
ments were confirmed by Lord Clare, who lived in the neigh-
bourhood, and that Noble Lord had excellent means of ascer-
taining the true state of the people in that district. Now this
is the state of things in the south, and it will certainly be six
months before the new cl op is got in.—( Hear, hear.) And
yet the Right Hon. the Recorder of the City of Dublin stated
that it was all a gross delusion.—(Hear, hear.) Well, but
'he Right Hon. Gentleman has made, in my opinion, a moat
fearful admission. He said this—that about this time of the
year destitution and dysentery, and in some cases famine, took
place in Ireland. Believing that the Irish people are suffering
from disease and want, and that the people of this country are
suffering too, but'in a smaller degree, he could not reconcile
his mind to provide for the wants of the former by grants of
money from the public purse, while it might be done by adopt-
ing the principle of Adam Smith, and at once reconcile the
trade in corn to the rules of nature and common sense. I say
that is the noble principle—and one which I did not lose sight
of when the state of Ireland was presented to me its all its
awful magnitude—that was the moving power, the earnest and
leading principle of the measure which we are now discussing.
—( Hear.) But then the Hon. 'Wernher for the University of
Dublin (Mr. Shaw)' stated that we have betrayed
our party by the conduct which we have pursued.
I have already stated that I cannot reproach
Hon. Gentlemen with entertaining the opinions which I once
entertained. I have also expressed an opinion that those who
now oppose our measures, will soon find that we have not be-
trayed them, and that, in the whole course of our proceedings,
we have had due regard to their interests ; but the Hon. Mem-
ber for the University of Dublin has cast our horoscope—he
has said that we are a falling Government, and, sitting behind
us, he kicks us, because he thinks we are falling.—( Loud Op-
position cheers.) lam free to confess that I hope the Hon.
Gentleman may, under a protective Government, obtain a
satisfactory settlement of the recorder's pension.—( Laughter,
and cries of " Oh, oh.") Then he does not look to any place
or power, but perhaps he may look forward to hold, under a
protective Government, the Irish Secretaryship. I hope Ire-
land will improve under his benign sway.—( Cheers, and " Oh,
oh" from the protectionists.) At all events, we are now
aware what actuates his conduct towards us ; but, speaking for
myself, I may say that his censure sits lightly on me, and that
I prefer his open hostility to his smouldering resentment. He
referred to the question of the operation of this measure as it
affected tithes, upon which the Noble Lord the Member for
Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck) had more than once spoken. I am
sorry to trespass on the House, but I wish to refer to this
point. The Hon. Member for Oxford stated, as his opinion,
that this 'measure was inconsistent with the interests of tithe-
owners. Nothing could be more accurate than his statement
that tithes varied in quantity, but that they varied in price
With respect to the Tithe Commutation Act, there could
be no doubt that that was a measure greatly in favour of the
landlords of Ireland. The present corn-laws either materially
affect the price of the first article ofj necessity, or they do not
affect it. If they do not affect it, I wish to know why there is
any objection to the proposed alteration in the duty which is
intended in the price of corn ? I do not know on what ground
the corn-laws should be maintained, for, in my opinion, they
tend to paralyse the market—they set class in opposition to
class—they destroy the social bonds of the whole community,
and endanger even its very existence. But if they do affect
prices, and cause an artificial value in the cost of provisions,
then, as interfering with the great question of the interests of
the consumer and receiver of wages, I call upon you to do away
with these imposts, and diminish the price of food to the con-
sumer. It cannot be denied that throughout the whole of the
manufacturing districts the importation of goods from distant
parts of the country has progressively increased. Manchester
and Liverpool now draw their supply of agricultural produce
from Ireland, Scotland, and the northern provinces of England,
and simultaneously with the increase of import has beets
the increased demand. It may, perhaps, be thought
that the value of land in the neighbourhood of
these towns would have diminished, but the reverse is the
fact ; and to substantiate my position, I can refer to the opinion
of Mr. Wilson. In writing on the corn-laws, he says—" Of
late years the facilities of steam navigation have enabled the
peasants of Ireland to dispose of the produce of their industry
in the profitable markets of Liverpool, Manchester, and other
places ; and while we find that this has tended to furnish pro-
visions at a cheaper rate to the consumer, it has not at all de-
preciated the value of land in the neighbourhood of these large
towns." Now, Sir, there is only one other point to which I
am anxious to draw the attention of the House, and that is the
important question of the bearing of the price of corn upon
wages. I have stated on a former occasion my reasons for not
thinking that high prices are conducive to high wages, and low
prices result in low wages. No, the reverse is the case. I
believe that low wages produce high prices, and that high
prices produce low wages..--( Hear, hear, arid cheers.) The
first evidence I will refer to will be the evidence of the Sot-
tish weavers, who say that the only
measure they de ire is the