The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-19 00:00:00

CUSTOMS' DUTIES BILL.

On the motion for bringing up the report on this Bill,
Lord G. BENTINCK ruse to oppose the motion. He
thought there was good reason for opposing the further progress
of the Bill which sought to remove duties amounting to no less
than 2,400,0001.. He contended that if the Government con-
tinued to receive that amount, they would be enabled to reduce
the amount levied on exeiseable articles. When the duties
were taken off glass and auctions, amounting to 900,0001., the
country was at once relieved from the cost of collecting that
sum, which amounted to 52,r001. ; and, at the same time, were
relieved from 450 excise officers. Thepresent reduction proposed
in the customs would not effect the reduction of a single excise
officer. They diminished the amount of duty, but did
not at all reduce the amount of collecting that sum. In pro-
portion, therefore, as they lowered the amount of duty, they
increased the per centage of collecting. Another reason
which he had for opposing the Bill, was that it would give to
the foreign producer a share in the benefit as well as the home
consumer. If they reduced the duty on soap, hops, and bricks,
it was clear that the entire remission mast go into the
pockets of the subjects of Great Britain. It was admitted,
on all sides, that soap was an article which tended consider-
ably to the comfort Gf the poor, and it was also of great
service in the maunfactures of the country. The duty on
hops amounted to about 300,0001. per annum, being no leas
than tad. on each pound. That duty put the hop growers
to the greatest possible inconvenience ; they could cot
gather their hops without sending the excise officers twenty-
four' hours notice of their intention to do so. The effect of the
reduction of the tax upon the importation of foreign timber
had had the effect of seriously damaging the Canadian timber
trade. It was perfectly clear that the Baltic timber growers
had now a monopoly.—( Hear, hear.) They had given to the
Baltic people that monopoly by the measures which they had
introduced ; and the Government was now proposing to in-
crease that monopoly still further. The reduction on foreign
timber did the greatest injury to the revenue of the country.
They had the authority of the Hon. Alember for Sunderland
for saying that there were five millions of cubic feet of timber
used in the formation of railways in the country, and that that
quantity would have been used irrespective of the duty being either
10s. or 555. a load. See, then, what an enormous revenue
this would have given to the country.—(Hear.) In the year
1840 there were imported from the Baltic five hundred
and sixty one thousand, three hundred and thirty-two
loads of timber; and that would also have been consumed
irrespective of the duty.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Pitt argued
tbat for every 100,0001. France gave, England should give one
million. They had put it out of their power to give anything
or receive anything in return, for they had given all they pos-
s,ssed away. Mr. Pitt did not propose to admit the grain of
France, or anything which came into competition with the
produce of England. And that was tha sound policy which a
great statesman should follow. It was the policy of Mr. Hus-
kisson, of Mr. Pitt, and of Mr. Canning.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Huskissen,
_speaking of the American tariff in 183 S—the
Americans having raised their duty on wool to 14 per cent.—
observed, that if such a proceeding was eventually carried out,
the English nation would retaliate. He referred to the bene-
ficial effects which the country had derived from putting a
protection on indigo. He therefore proposed that they should
put a duty on cotton, and encourage its growth in the East
Indies. It was clear that Mr. Huskisson was not an advocate
for free trade without its reciprocity.—( Hear, hear.) Like
the Right Hon. Baronet, he was sure, at all events, he
was not a disciple of Mr. Pitt or of Mr. Canning.
He thought the policy which should be adopted was, to reduce
the duties on the trade of those countries which took our ma-
nufactures.— (Hear, hear.) And it would also be a wise policy
to reduce the duties on the imports of those countries which
had no shipping of their own, but who used our shipping, and
especially with regard to China.—(Hear, hear.) It was not
free trade that was wanted. How would it act with regard
to Canada? What was the feeling there? I shall quote, not
from the language of Mr. Papineau, not from the language of
other gentlemen identified with him, but from the language of
the Ministers of the Crown in Canada. (Hear, hear.)
This was what the Solicitor-General for the Crown said at a
meeting held at Toronto. He raid, " that if ever there was
a time when the national credit and interest of Canada was
at stake, it was at that moment, when they were threatened
with a great and dangerous change." Why, with what satis-
faction could the measures of her Majesty's Government be
looked upon, when the officer of the Crown in Canada used
such language as this ? And what said Mr. Draper, the At-
torney-General? That gentleman, when addressing a public
meeting upon the measure of her Majesty's Government, ad-
vised the meeting to prevent, if possible, the passing of a
law which was calculated to be of the greatest injury to the
Canadas. lie said, in language not to be mistaken, .‘ I tell
you, that I see what is coming, and I tell the people
of this province, it is of no use shutting their
eyes to the injury about to be done them ; and I would advise,
if there is no other remedy—if there is nothing else left for
them—the best thing they can do is to declare themselves
bankrupt at once, and repudiate.—(" Hear, hear," from the
protection benches.) Was this to be mistaken ?—(Hear. )
Hon. Members were well aware that the mode of distribution
of their revenue was according to the population of their towns.
The result was, that the population increased from 23,500,000
to 27,500,000, and the receipts increased from Is. 63%d. per
head to 2s. 91,4 d. per bead ; and would the people of the Zoll-
verein consent to this reduction so injurious to themselves.
They would say first, that a mutual accommodation might
be made by a reduction of the duties of the produce of both
countries ; but now, when our markets were open to them on
any terms, they would take care to protect their own manufac-
tures. He found that in raw grain they imported 363,610
setuas, each setua being about 1 cwt. ; and, in 1841, the im-
ports had increased to 434,000 setuas, making, with their home
manufacture of the article, more than 900,000 setuas. In
1841, they exported 80,000 setuas of cotton hosiery to this
country, paying duty; while our exports paid duty there.
These were the grounds which induced him to think
that there were no just grounds for the hope that our
present proceedings would induce foreign countries to
take our manufactures in return for their own. There
was no hope that, because of our free trade
the demands for reciprocal benefits in return, would open the
markets of foreign countries to the manufactures of this coun-
try. The present course of policy of the Right Hon. Baronet
would give the greater portion of the beneficial effects of re-
duced duties to foreigners, instead of the English. He wished,
when the circumstances of the country admitted of a reduc-
tion of duties, to see the benefit of that remission going to
the English manufacturer. If the duties were to be reduced,
he wished to see it done in such a manner as to employ our
own shipping. The principle of the policy which seemed to
be adopted by the Right Hon. Baronet was, to deal hardly
with those nations which dealt kindly by this country, and to
make concessions to those nations who opposed our interests.
He objected to our foreign policy, as it made concessions to
those who were enemies to, and opponents of, our interests, and
the interests of our manufacturer ; and, under these circum-
stances, he should move that the report be read a second time
that dity six months.
Mr. LAWSON said he rose to second the motion of the
Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, and in doing so he felt
that he followed him at a very great distance in the
same task. He followed him " enagno sed proxi-
mus intervallo." He did so in pursuance of the
opinions entertained by him on all occasions. For in 1842,
when the amended tariff was brought forward in that House by
the Right Hon. Baronet, he did not give way on that occasion
in the opinion which he had always entertained, but he gave
notice of a motion for an increased protection duty to native
industry in general, which motion he should have adhered
to, had he received the support which he ought to have ob-
tained. He would now, with the permission of the HOUT,
t read, from a paper prepared by command of her Majesty, tvdo
very short extracts, which gave strong reasons for the con-

tinuance of protection duties. The paper staled nes., that
it would not be too much to expect that the continual in-
crease in the linen trade would result in the fact that the
manufacture of linen would stand in the same relation with
regard to foreign countries which their manufactures had
done towards England. With this great difference that we
spent 2,000,000/. of money annually in foreign countries for
the raw material, which, if it were permitted-
to grow in this country, would be expended
at home by the labour of out own hands, and wellth, industry,
and prosperity would be spread throughout the country. The'
conclusion of this statement was, that from 5,000,0001. to
6,000,0001. annually were drained out of the country to pay
foreign nations for the produce of a crop which could be grown
at l.oroe, with profit to the farmer, the employment of the
labourer, and the benefit of the community at large. The point
to which he would wish most particularly to advert was to the
potato crop, unless any Gentleman should consider that in ad-
verting to that crop he referred to 'what vras trifling, or
unworthy of the House. He would ask Honourable Members
to remember foreign debates upon the subject. The whole of
the corn-law question had been based by the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government on the failure of the
potato crop, or what was sometimes called the potato panic.
He thought the Noble Lord near him had done the
state some service with regard to this crop. The Noble Lord
had said very pathetically, if they waited till May they would
find that the potato panic would be given up by the Right
Hon. Baronet. That had turned out to be the case, and if he
understood them rightly, that was not now the cause of the
reduction of the duties, so that the Noble Lord, if he had done
no
good in the debate which had taken place, had at least
taken away
hhaibvietory; laboured.
itfainseliBmression, under which many seemed to
Mounted ) almost 21. per ton. That duty lad
the duty on potatoes was almost pro-
hibitory
Since 1842, theOitwas
since been reduced, toand.
Houseue would:et
5) of
tallow,the
in-
troducing potatoes into this country would
dosbede
atofatairkevi,tcoimffeanitoo-f
what would take place in thee
tot a I trheemcoovsatl oo
ff
I eduty. De wished to ask the Hoy
been lowered since 1842. Next, tafdthte price of potatoes had
hal taken place made them independent oh; importation which
whether they received an ample foreignthe seasons ? Also
hear.) And after that, could the pricese saut leW ? --(Hear,
Bard to those questions, especially the last, which r7e a
Pith re-
statement of prices, he would be able to answer. fie heldtline
his hand some returns which were all but official, and these
returas, like the statement he made the other night, he was
prepared to verify. From these statements he found that
in the year 1842, 1843, 1814, the prices fluctuated from 40s.
to 995. wr ton, and at the present season the prices varied from
110 s. to 150 s. per ton.—(Hear, hear, in which Sir James
Graham joined.) He was very glad to see the Right Hon.
Secretary join in that cheer ; but would he cheer at the next
statement he was about to make to the House, when he stated
that he was convinced of the benefits which would be pro-
duced by the sliding-scale when really prices were steady,
and the greatest variation was about 20 per cent.? As -ttrat
statement was so much cheered from the Treasury Benches,
he would state when the greatest rise in potatoes took place.
It was ja December last.—( Hear, hear.) In December, 1843,
the highest average of prices-was 583. per ton. Tn December,
1844, the highest average was 5,Ss. ; and in December, 1845,
the prices rose to 90s. per ton. He hoped they would cheer
that. •

Sir J. GRAHAM—Hear, hear.
Alr. LAWSON thanked the Right. Hon. Baronet; but
would he cheer what he was about to say —that when
the Peel panic was heard of the price rose to 150 e. per ton.
They had no cheer for that. By the returns up to January,
1546, he found that, before that year, the value of potatoes
annually 23 exported was more than 5,0001., and in that year
al. 'tl h
thea t
ramount
4w5 could
r ton,purchase
aat which
alut
tlhoe,yoowoe troenss of
potatoes, 0
findcll-
i nlagr ai
vessels
i oi nr e ol f Ireland,
u Primeglhf thato
i, wasniipi
onri the Minister
elro case,,toi
toa ot
tthownehe
would
fbecameo t
not of
be thelafh able
ehdeteyo-
had vessels enough to export, surely therepwo'aulocle.sbe vessels
enough to import them. From, communications which he had
received from Yorkshire, he found that potatoes were ye y
plentiful there; and he read in the Leeds Illereurri paper
entirely devoted to the Anti-Corn-law League, that' a
there
were weekly 500 to 6ao bushels offered for sale in that neigh-
bourhood, at from 2s. to 2s. 2d., without a disease or defect.
The best potatoes were brought from York to London, and
were cold, after being kept for six weeks, at 50s. per ton ; so
that. it was impassible that the statements which had been
made with respect to potatoes could be true. Ile felt he had
already too long occupied the attention of the House, and he
would conclude by seconding the motion of his Hon. Friend.
Alderman HUMPHREY said that he thought the Hon.
Member was mistaken when he said that potatoes from Yolk
could be sold at 505., a ton when the price there was 503.,
afterwards raised to 955. a ton; and had they been conveyed to
London, at that price, and kept six weeks, would have been
unfit for the purpose of sale.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no desire
to prolong this discussion. He merely wished to make a few
observations with respect to what had fallen from the Noble
Lord, and he must observe, at the same time, that the state-
ments of the Noble Lord had been made by him when this
subject was previously under discussion. The Noble Lord, he
must say, had laid down some principles in finance which at
least had the merit of being entirely new, and which was such,
in his opinion, that every individual who paid any attention to
this subject would refuse to subscribe to ; in fact, one part of
the speech of the Noble Lord had answered the other. The
Noble Lord had stated, as a general principle, that by the total
repeal of all Excise duties they would afford great relief to the
consumers of such articles as had been freed from taxation, and
they would get rid of the expense of these establishments.
He gage the Noble Lord the benefit of that argument, but
when the Noble Lord proposed to raise the whole of the re-
venue by an augmentation of the customs duties, commensu-
rate with the whole of the excise duties proposed to be re-
pealed, he proposed a system of revenue which could not be
carried into effect with any success in this country. The
Noble Lord said it would have been far better for the Govern-
ment to have come forward with the proposition for the repeal
of the soap duty, which, he said, would greatly promote the
comfort and happiness of the general body of the community.
He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not dispute, nor had
he ever disputed, that the repeal of the soap duty would be a
wise measure, provided the revenue could bear it.—(Cries
of " Hear, hear.") But the Government had already
gone far to reducing the cost of that article, for they
had reduced the duty on the importation of tallow,
from which the inferior sort of soap was principally made, and
a corresponding reduction had been made in the importation of
the oil of which that sort of soap which was used by the
higher classes was made. He did not mean to undervalue the
inconvenience of persons engaged in the manuracinio th,.o
articles which were subject to the Excise laws, but the present
system of supervision could not be avoided. The Noble Lord
had in his speech paidea tribute to which every one must agree,
to the merits—the financiol merits of Mr. Pitt, Air. Canning,
and Mr. Huekisson, whoie opinions the Noble Lord on this
subject said concurred with his own, but he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) begged leave to tell the Noble Lord that they
had held opinions quite the reverse, The Noble Lord had said
that the Government ought rather to have come forward with
the proposition to repeal the malt duty, which, according to
his statement, produced 5,000,0001. per annum, and which he
said should be taken off malt, and the duty upon beer be re-
imposed. Ile (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was sure
that no one would wish that supervision which formerly existed
with respect to the supervision of beer to be renewed.—( Hear,
hear.) It would deprive private individuals from brew
ing beer for their own use, without being subjected to
continued supervision and heavy duties which the rich would
be enabled to evade. The Noble Lord had also said that it
would have been better had the Government proposed the re-
duction of the duties on spirits, which, he said, amounted to 40:1.
per cent. Now he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) firmly
believed that such a reduction would tend not to the health
and improvement, but the destruction of the health and
morals of the public.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, in
one respect, admitted that there had been a great reverse in
' the timber trade between the period when timber had been first
introduced and the present, and the Noble Lord cried, " See
what a benefit you would have conferred on the revenue, if
you had received the whole duty as it was fixed before
the reduction." But the Noble Lord forgot that
in 1842 they had received only 500,000 loads of
timber, while in 1845, they had received a million, and
the Noble Lord calculated that if they had received the whole
duty of 555, there would have accrued to the revenue the sum
of 1,500,0001. He forgot the importation had not been so
great were it not for the reduction. The principle of
trade was to increase the revenue by making a reduction on duty,
for it might be reasonably supposed that an increase of con-
sumption would take place in exact reciprocity. The Noble
Lord said you have not got the whole of the benefit by the re-
duction, the greater part of which was received by the growers.
He admitted as to last year, but as to the former year it was
quite the reverse. Last year there had undoubtedly been an
increased demand, and that demand having been greater than
the supply of the countries from which it came, of course the
grower would place his own price upon the goods. There
was ;to competitor in the market with him. There had un-
doubtedly been a rise in the price of food, and the Noble
Lord considered that it would have taken place despite
the heavy duty.—( Hear, hear.) But there was a great
error on which this principle was founded. The principle on
which the Noble Lord went was, that if one country had a hos-
tile, tariff the other should raise its in proportion, anda
reciprocal
receive
the, manufacture of no country unless there was
much as you have. received,
benefit to the other. " You haavnednoyto.exphoaryteed,n'n'
tsariedthurened ,
atos
Russia and Prussia an equal quantity of (manufactures, or even
a proportion to the quantity of wood you have received." That
was not the way to look upon the question, but let them look
to the general mass of the manufactures sent to foreign nations,
and see if there had been an increase in proportion to that ex-
port, and that would be the proper way to view the subject,
and it wits not by measuring the exact quantity sent to Russia
or Prussia, who might refuse to receive the value of their arti-
cles in ex, change. The same argument applied to what the
Noble Lot d said in reference to the shipping interest. There
was a get at increase in their commercial shipping, but
it might be proved that some one or two countries
had a larger increase than heretofore ; but, as he said,
in aprevious portion of his remarks, and they should look to
the various relations with England to the rest of the globe,
and they would there see, from the year 1832 to 1845, that
this country had more than doubled her shipping during that
time. The Noble Lord then adverted to the position of the
Canad'as, and he would fain have the House believe that there
was in Canada a feeling very adverse to the country and to
tho measures which had been recommended to the House by
her Majesty's Government; and in proof of this assertion, he
alluded to the defeat of the Government party where the
question of adjournment was carried by a majority of seven.
H e wished he had laid upon the table that night a copy of
th ese dispatches for which the Noble Lord had moved; in
truth they had been already published in the journals, and
tine Noble Lord must be well aware, as he was, of the exact
position of the facts, and what was that result? Why, far
otiserwise than it was intimated to the House.—( Hear,
he ar.) They were told there would be a great
outcry on the reduction of the duty on timber.
Nt nv there was not one word said about the reduction of the
duty on timber in tho se dispatches, They did not revert to
thr ma at all, and though the Noble Lord quoted extracts in re-
fer once to the corn-laws from private correspondents, the
No ble Lord should be aware, from his own experience, that
the sentiments of personal members of a legislature were not
alto ays those of a community ; and there was a majority of
four teen in thelllouse of Assembly. He would not detain the
Hou ve by entering further into the details of this measure,
and lkie would say in conclusion, that the measure was calcu-
lated to promote the financial resources of the country, in-
crease its pros)rerity, its wealth and independence.
Mr. BANKES said that his Right Honourable Friend,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had made an attempt to
ans wer the speech of his Noble Friend, but in making that
tahte-
tem pt he had entirely failed. He did not mean
rtosesy
Rig ht Honourable Gentleman wished to misrepresent his
r,
No: Ole Friend. It was unfortunate for them, how
pro tection benches) that t
sitting as a party on thath sideweroef theneve tirouse
distinctly ( th e
disagreed with them.
could only get
hen d reded,biyt
wthasosennfHerot
been said
of the Treasury bench, and as had
stuffed with
ly by an Hon. Member, that ear was
nu.nal‘telenifobretrhseeymwhtohatthey
hut nourous
cornn.—(Laughter.) Laughter. ) Now the speech of the Right Hon.
leman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was no answer
tGoet hat which had been advanced by his Noble Friend, for the
Rit Hon. Gentleman had entirely misunderstood the argu-
melt of the Noble Lord near him. What the Noble Lord
that they had given the custom duties without any
Le return, but had they given them in return. for some
was, that
they would. have been acting iu reason. That
was thek qltern which he understood Noble Friend to have
obsthineainig'tefict:

/ contended ion- ri era, _not the extravagant system which his
' Right Hon. Friend, 4,!re Che.reaf,llor of the Exchequer wished
to make cut for lis Noble Friend. .;,; they had retained the
customs' duties which they had now given tip, they might have
considered the reduction of the duty on tel. They might
then bare taken into their consideration also the reduction of
the duty on Lops—a reduction which would have benefited
ell classes of the people.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He bad
thought it his duty, in the discussion on the tariff duties, to
take into his consideration the one particular branch of trade;
—be meant the silk trade. One of the articles of that branch
of trade was the manufacture of the silk hat bands, which
every Member of that House wore round his hat. Now,
that-article of the silk trade was manufactured at Manchester,
and the reduction of the duty on silk made a difference to
the workman of 2s. 6d. on his week's work. He thought it
his duty to warn the House, when the article of silk was under
their consideration, to pause before they made that reduction.
What he had stated had, however, no effect, and the conse-
quence was what he had just stated. He was of opinion
that they should do nothing which would tend to reduce the
wages of the workman; but, on the contrary. it Was their
duty to uphold them.—( Hear, hear.) (The Hon. Member
then read an extract from a speech of Mr. Huskisson, de-
, livered at a period of contemplated reduction of our protec-
tive duties, in support of his (Mr. Bankes') argument.)
There was one point to which he wished to refer more particu-
larly. They had b?en accused of prolonging there debates to
the injury of the country. The Right Hon. Home Secretary
had on a former occasion stated that be believed that if the
corn, which was ready to be brought into the country in
January last, had been gradually admitted it would have done a
great deal of good.
The SPEAKER reminded the Hon. Member that he had
no right to quote former debates in that House.
Mr. BANKES could not continue to do so, but he had
already given enough for his purpose. With regard to the
measures that had ell along been proposed by her Nlajesty's
Government, they were the less liked as they became more
knoen. These were his reasons for opposing the measure,
and he thsnked the House foe its attention, and would con-
clude by stating that he should give his decided opposition to
the measnre.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAWES said that it was not his intention to enter at
all into the merits of the question before the House. He
wished to refer to what had !aline Prom the Hon. Member. If
' the country received with such i ike the measures of the Go-
t h
wveitrhneatheenrat,awnhuyfachtaudritnhize7intenort:ou,gidvuerisnugppotlrle several hours
which this debate had Imo some Member connected
of the Noble Lord ? No such Hon. Member htadth attempted
support the motion, and therefore be thought that he was right
.
to infer that it was not
motioton
as the Hon. Member had intimated, and in fact he would ven-
ture to say, from his own knowledge of the subject, that the
measures proposed were looked upon by the manufacturing in-
terest as likely to be a gift to teem, and one of a beneficial
nature. He would seriously advert to the point which the Hon.
Member had raised with rtference to the delays which they vrere
.said to have occasioned to this measure. Such delays
would most unquestionably seriously impede any benefit which
might arise, to the country by the passing of this measure ;
and, in fact, it would destroy. its utility, by the lateness of its
period of passing. fleirad risen to entreat the House to faci-
litate as much as possible the passing of this measure, as he
was conf dent, from the feelisig, manifested by all the interests
likelya affectedtioawbewonlzb
ie mboystits_passin
Mr. P. BORTH WICK said that the Hon. Member who
had just sat down had commenced his observations by stating
acceptableg to o htahteict its
nearlytry at conversion
into
that the manufacturing and commercial classes had not been
represented in this discussion, or in the debate of that evening.
He was confident that there was not a person who had the in-
terests of the agricultural and manufacturing population more
at heart than the Noble Lord who had addressed the House
at some length that evening (Lord George Bentinck).
and he was also confident that there was not a man who better
deserved the esteem of that class of people. If it was for any
class at all that Honourable Gentlemen sat in that House to
legislate, it was fc r the class of men described by Mr. Burke,
who called them labourers, 'and said that they were miscalled
poor men as it was fur their ,benefit that struggles had al-
ready been made, and in spite of opposition their interests
would not be lost sight of. The Noble Lord (the Member for
Lynn) had proved himself the decided friend of the people,
and therefore it was that he (Mr. Peter Borthwick) would
support him in any way the Noble Lord would suggest.—
( Hear, hear.) He would take the year from 1934 to 1735,
and he would show what the exports of grain had been in that
year. The Hon. Member quoted the different exports of
grain, showing a total of 433,893 quarters, which he con-
tended was more in proportion than could be shown at the pre-
sent time.
Mr. PLUMPTRE thought that if this discussion had con-
sumed the whole seven years which any one Parliament could
claim, it would not be too much, considering the great in-
terests involved—considering the mercantile interests of the
country, which would be comparatively ruined by this mea-
sure ; and the agricultural interests—in fine—considering
these things, he did not see that they were wrong to
oppose this measure to the utmost. He should, therefore,
give hie decided opposition to the Bill.
Dr. BOW1111‘.(3, would wish to define clearly what would
be the effect of hostile tariffs, and as far as his experience and
knowledge went, he should consider that the course of legis-
lature formerly persevered in would be most apt to create an
hostile interest, while the liberal policy of the Right Hon.
Baronet would be as certain to originate friendly relations
between this country and every state in Europe.--( Hear. )
The Right Hon. Baronet's recent propositions had also had
great effect on the Italian Government. The Italians had,
from better experience, begun to see the ruinous effects of pro-
hibitions and fetters on their trade and commerce. Tuscany
had long given a noble example in favour of free trade. The
Right Hor. Gentlemen had, no doubt, visited it, end he would
ask them whether the people of Tuscany were not in a far
more prosperous and happy condition than those where the
old system of prohibition prevailed, The value of land, too,
in Tuscany, and all other countries where the free trade prin-
ciples prevailed, was more valuable than in other countries
where those principles had pot been introduced. Even in
Spain there was a vigorous movement at this moment in favour
of free trade. The flight Hon. Baronet was showing the
woild that he could compete with hostile tariffs by his free
trade measures. England was now giving a practical lesson.
to the world. They had been told to cure themselves of their-
own diseases, and they were doing so.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) And
,while the •opinion of the country was
strengthening the arms of the Government, the result would
be a great extension of our commerce, and the increase of our
wealth and happiness —( Hear, hear.)
cesieeei SIB MORI' said, that the Hon. Member who,
h .d just sat down, and who had already received a suns se;
13,1:00/. as a commercial traveller in fa: our of free trade,
and was no doubt looking forward for a similar situation to
what he held a few years ago, and that was probably the
reason of his earn t .a.lvueacy of the Right Hon. Baronet's
measures.—(Laught Why did not the Hon. arid Leerrirl
Gentleman at once ra.,,ever to the Ministerial benches, in sup.
sikle)
pert of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government.
—( Hear, hear.) Truth would prevail—(Opposition cheers)—
and every day would show that the arguments of the Noble
Lord the Member for Lynn were based on tru'...l. If he wished,
to look for suffering perfidy and apostacy in this world, he had
oily to look at the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Go.
vernment.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Mr. HENLEY said that he begged to remind the Hon:
Member for Lambeth (Mr. Hawes), who said that the reams-
factoring people were universally in favour of free trade, that
they were not the only interests concerned in these measures»
the agriculturists were surely entitled to be heard.—( Hear,;
hear.) If the malt duty were repealed, and the excise duties
were taken away, the Government would act justly by the
agricultural interest. He considered that the simplification of
the revenue, which was daily taking place, would be most bene-.
tidal. Ile could not, however, shut his eyes to the fact that the,
lessons which the Government were teaching the masses,
namely by association, they would gain whatever they demanded.
The Hon. and Learned Doctor said that the loss of Canada would.
even be better than not to have free trade ; but he considered
that that would be paying a little too dear for their whistle.
He would record his vote against the measure, as he considered
it fraught with danger to the country.
Mr. HUDSON denied that the reduction in silk which had
taken place added to the comforts of the labouring classes;
and this was surely the great test of the benefit which they
would have concurred. With regard to the timber duties, be'
objected to the reduction, as it would go entirely to the beness
fit of the foreigner and not the home consumer. It was no.
torious that railways consumed a vast quantity of timber.
Well, the duty had been taken off of it. Who were to be
would have
duty was removed from them ; if there had beeni
benefitetdhlt aWghryeattehrequfaonrteiitgyneorf. brpickuts were used
.91 It s eegdu i isl-yu t no-
torious n co
division,e would give his vote
p lbenefitedoyro ent the. Hhome
considered producer,
t haon dmt ht;
measure
havem giventimpolitic,gre ater em-
ployment.
he, if the question came to a
agLoaiotnstd iGEORGE BENTINCK then withdrew his amend.
t.
The report was then received.
PEEL intimated that at five o'clock this day
.r
me
Sir ROBERT
into Committee on Sir Henry Ear.
he
Twhoett lffd
ot
aa
skee
hthaevitohgirgdorneeading of the Bill.
dinge's Annuity Bill,
Sir A. L. HAY moved, in Committee on Viscount Hare
dinge's Annuity Bill, that the annuity to Henry Viscount Har-
dinge become payable during his life, irrespective of any grant
by the East India Company.
Sir ROBERT PEEL desired that there should be unani.
mity upon the subject, and recommendod the withdrawal of the
motion.
Colonel SIBTHORP said as they had given away 30,000f.'
to Maynooth, and other absurd grants, he saw no reason why
they should refuse to give the grant originally proposed to Lord
Hardinge. The conduct of a British House of Commons
would be extremely mean and unworthy of Eneishmen to
refuse such a grant.
Mr. CURTEIS was one of those Englishmen who
would refuse such a grant. In the present state of the
country, it was wrong to press on the Government to confer it.
Lord Hardinge had already been amply provided for, and he
would resist every attempt to force the Government to make
this grant under such circumstances. Had the East India
Company
would b
not
proposede very
the
different, and
annuity
the which
gallant they
officerdid, thewould casboolt
course
entitled to recieve recognition of their services.
Sir ROBERT PEEL did not take credit from the pre-.
sent state of the country to justify him in refusing-
the grant originally proposed by the Government. He,
refused it upon precedent. The Duke of Wellington war
treated 'yen the same principle, and so was Lord Combermere
He hoped the House would be of opinion that the grant of the
East India Company was in accordance with the mode of that.
public body, subject to the sanction of Parliament.
Atter a few words from Sir A. Leith Hay, Capt. Harris, and
Mr. Hogg,
The gallery was then ordered to be cleared, but no divisions
took place.
The Bill was then agreed tn.
LORD GOUGII'S ANNUITY BILL.
e wwahridesh v itew ant
into The
Committee House t h eono resumed,
L ord
Cough'sand
passed throngh Committee without
opposition.eommitee on the E 1
The House having also gone into xt? me
sive Substances Bill, immediately
Annuity Bill,af
Mr. CURTEIS objected to clause 8, which inflicted the
punishment of flogging. It had a degrading and demoralising
effect. The clause permitted three inflictions of the lash, anti it
was not like a military flogging, for the amount of punishukett
was left to the discretion of the gaoler.
Sir 3. GRAHAM said that two years since when the crime
of arson and firing ricks was prevalent amongst juvenile offence
ders under sixteen years of age, the punishment of whipping
was found to have such a beneficial effect that it was to be tried
on all persons guilty of that offence. The clause had beta
framed by the most competent judges and would doubtless base
a powerful effect in stopping crime of that description.
The Bill then went through Committee without further op..
position.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Half-past One o'clock.

SCOTTISH MINSTRELSY.-At a recent meeting of
some friends of Mr. Wilson, the Scottish vocalist, presi(k
over by Captain James Lamont, R.N., at the Lomita
Tavern, a subscription was opened, limited to one guinea
each, for presenting to that gentleman some permanent tea..
timonial of acknowledgment for his persevering and sue..
cessful exertions iu the revival and extension of the
popularity of Scottish song. The .Chisholm was unavoid-
ably prevented from taking the chair by fudden and. severe
indisposition.