The Sun.
London, England, 1846-01-27 00:00:00

Mr. L ABOUC HERE said that he did not intend troubling
the House with many observations. He was astonished to
hear from the speech of the Noble Lord, that it was the in-
tention of the Government to confide this important matter to
the consideration of a Committee. They were about to con-
sign
to the power of about half a dozen men the decision of
that most important question, viz. what shall be the maximum
suns to be allowed in the construction of railways.—( Hear,
hear.) A greater, or more difficult question than that could
not come before the House._( Hear, hear.) To propose any
limitation at all in that respect, would be obviously to act in
direct opposition to the general principles which the House had
invariably adhered to. He would only say that the course
proposed was a most unusual one. The question, if it were
to be decided, should be seriously and carefully debated upon
by the whole House.—( Hear. ) He would venture to say
that no benefit would arise from the proposed Committee.
If such a Committee should be appointed, he considered it to
be the duty of those who composed it at once to say that it
was not a proper subject for them to entertain. He had
hoped that the Government would have come before the House
with some matured plan on this subject, and he was not with •
out hopes that the most desirable plans might be devised on
this head. He thought that, with the experience of the last
session before them, they might take steps which would greatly
facilitate the progress of railway legislation during the present
session. The House of Commons, in his opinion, was quite
right in appointing a railway Committee during the last year,
but the subject which it had been proposed to refer to their
decision in the present instance was quite a different thing.—
( Hear, hear.) The present question was of an entirely dif-
ferent character, and he therefore much regretted to hear the '
proposal of the Government just made with respect to railway
legislation during the present session.—( Hear, hear.) He
would only make one other remark. He agreed with the Hon.
Gentleman who had just spoken, that the experience of
last session had rendered it incumbent upon the
House to devise some scheme that would facilitate the pro.
gress of railway business. He agreed with him that the pub-
lic had every right to complain of the extraordinary delay of
railway business during the last session. His Hon. Friend
I had stated that he thought that out of doors there was an im-
pression that the tribunals that had been appointed during the
last session for the transaction of railway business were not
altogether free from suspicion.=( Hear, hear.) For his own
part, he could only say (having had experience in those tribu-
nals), that he was not aware of any other tribunal in existence
that had discharged its duties so honorably, and with so much
deliberation.— (Hear, hear.) No blemish should, therefore,
be cast upon their proceedings either in or out of doors.. He
had thought it right to say thus much upon this subject, for
he should be sorry if that House were charged with perform-
ing the business brought before them in a dishonourabe man-
. ner ; but much more should he regret were they justly so
charged. He could, however, say that the tribunals referred
to were above all suspicion.—(Hear, hear. )
Mr. JOHN COLLETT thought that the House had a
perfect right to ask her Majesty's Government what were the
subjects which they proposed to submit to the Select Com-
mittee. He did not mean to say that they should enter into
every minute detail. As a banker, he could say, that unless
the Government clearly stated their course with regard to rail-
way legislation during the present session, the banking interest
would be materially damaged. He was still of opinion that the
public would very much prefer a Commission appointed by this
House. Committees had been appointed for all other matters,
and why not on this
Mr. F. FRENCH said he had no objection to the Com-
mittee. He was much satisfied with the remarks which had
fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet. He did not think that
the House need fear that their labours would be much increased
during the session by the number of railway Bills which would
come before it. He was sin e that out of the eight
hundred and odd railways, the plans of which had
been deposited, 100 would not pass through the ordeal of the
standing orders, and consequently would not come before the
House.
Colonel ANSON was opposed to the appointment of the
Select Committee. If they were to hear evidence, &c., on the
different railway bills, their labours would not terminate during
the present session. He would suggest that the Committee pro-
: posed should have the classification and grouping of the rail-
, way bills, but he should decidedly oppose its appointment if it
were proposed that the Committee should decide upon the im.
portant question that had been alluded to.—( Hear, hear.) He
, hoped that the Government would not persist in the present
motion, for he was decidedly of opinion that the Committee
proposed would not be able to carry out the powers to be vested
in them. He was enabled to say this from the intimate
, knowledge which he possessed on railway subjects.
Mr. JAMES PARKER believed that when the public had
read the proceedings of the House that evening, they would come
to the same conclusion to which he had arrived, via., that a

. .
Select Committee should be appointed in the first instance.—
, ( Hear, hear.) That Committee would be the means of saving
a considerable sum of money to parties interested in Railway
Bills ; the expenditure consequent upon the delays of the Board
1 of Trade in the months of May, June, July, and August, of
1 last year, was immense.—( Hear, hear.) And, after all, the
1 parties had to go home—in many instances without the slightest
1 benefit—without any notice whatever whether they should ever
1 have to attend before the Board again. He, upon these and
other grounds, trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of the Government would have the fortitude to deal with
this matter with resolution and determination. The scheme
contemplated was a most comprehensive one, and he had no
doubt that it would give much satisfaction to the country ge-
nerally.—( Hear, hear.) He denied that the proposition was
an unusual one ; it was no anomalous case.--( Hear, hear.)
The railway world, he had no doubt, would give the proposi-
tion their best support.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted that the
proceedings of this Committee, whatever they might be, would
be rapid. What they must do they must do quickly. He be-
lieved that a great deal of time was last year wasted in perusing
what were called tratc tables. This involved a great waste of
time. He did not think that they sat there for railways only,
although it would almost appear that they did so last year. He
hoped that some rational course would be laid down for their
guidance with respect to railway legislation, and he trusted that
it would be done quickly.
Mr. P. SCROPE hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would
submit to the Committee, for their consideration, the subject
of the appointment of a Commission, to supersede Committees
on Railway Bills. He had himself been one of a Committee
which had sat for eighty-four days last session ; and his so
serving had taught him how incompetent a Parliamentary
railway Committee was. A Commission could have got
through the business of that Committee in a few hours. He
trusted, therefore, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would con-
sider the propriety of appointing five gentlemen well qualified
to serve as a Commission upon railway Bills ; for he was
convinced that such a step would be attended with most advan-
tageous results.
Mr. MORRISON thought the best mode of putting a
wholesome check upon railway speculation was to reduce the
profits upon railways ; and to do that effectually he would ,
suggest, that the companies should be compelled to charge
low rates of fare. If a person wanted to go to Dover, he had to
pay 155., but from Ostend to Brussels—the same distance—
the charge was only is. 6d. With respect to the question of
the deposits, he believed that so far from the deposits having
checked speculation, that they had had quite a contrary effect.
He thought the present system of deposits was full of evil, and
required extensive alteration. And he trusted that the subject
would receive that consideration which its importance required.
Sir R. PEEL, who was scarcely audible, said that nothing
had passed in that debate, which had at all shaken his con-
viction that her Majesty's Government had pursued the pro-
per course, in availing themselves of the earliest opportunity of
calling the attention of the House to the difficulty in which
they might be involved, unless they took early notice of the
immense extent of railway legislation which was this year to
be presented to them. It was the duty of the Government to
submit the matter to the consideration of the House of Com-
mons, inasmuch as it was a subject affecting their own privi-
leges. He was perfectly certain that if he had brought for-
ward any scheme on the part of the Government, and sub-
mitted it to the consideration of the whole House, he would
have been called upon at once to refer it to a Select Committee.
Tnat was the course they intended to adopt. The Committee
would be composed of Members who had more particularly
turned their attention to the subject of railways. It had been
said that there would probably not be more than one or two
hundred plans deposited, but there had, in point of fact, been
710, involving a capital of 300.000,000/. It was true that a
very great number of these Bills would fail, either through a
non-compliance with the standing orders, or from the failure
in making the necessary deposits ; but they ought to con-
sider, as early as possible, the difficulty in which the
Rouse might be placed with respect to these Bills.—
( Hear, hear.) He had been asked to postpone the
appointment of the Committee until it was ascertained whether
or not the railways for which plans had been deposited had
passed through the standing orders. He could not consent to
I that, although it might be very possible for the Committee to
postpone their decision, as to the course to be adopted with
respect to those bills until they had gone through that ordeal.
1 It was absolutely necessary that they should take this subject
into consideration early. Let them consider what were the
effects of delay in the last session of Parliament. They were
, not able to perform their functions last year. Many bills were
postponed, although their promoters had complied with the re-
gulations of the year 1844. i They had served their notices and
bad paid their deposits, yet such was the pressure upon the
House of Commons, that bills to the amount of eleven millions
were allowed to stand over, not because they were objected to
in principle, but because there was not time to consider them.
Suppose there should he one hundred or two hundred bills to
be referr.d to committees of the House of Commons,
was it not incumbent upon them to take a preliminary
view of a question of such immense importance.
Each scheme would be considered by five men. But they
would merely consider the particular scheme before them, whe-
ther or no it promised to fulfil the expectation held out by its
promoters, or was likely to realise a remunerative profit, and
whether the estimated expenses would be sefficient to carry it
into effect; they were only required to take an abstract view
of the merits of that particular scheme. The scheme had been
thus distinctly considered, the estimates had been found all
right • the expectations of the promoters were likely to be
realised, the great body of the landlords on the line were con-
senting parties ; and the Committee therefore unhesitatingly
recommended the scheme, and it would then be brought under
the notice of Parliament. But when the House considered
the number of Bills which had been, and were likely to be
sanctioned, when they considered an expenditure of some
23,000,000/. for the next three years, surely it was fairly open
for consideration, whether or no they might not apply with ad-
vantage some sort of limit to capital, which in addition to that
at present in use, must still be required for future railway
schemes. He had therefore her Majesty's command to draw
the attention of the House of Commons to this matter, and
seeing the extraordinary number of Bills, and the equally ex-
traordinary amount of capital, and, as owing to the competition
of rival projects, there was no saying to what extent they
might extend, her Majesty's Ministers felt that it was a duty im-
perative upon them to draw attention to the standing orders in
order to have the opinion of the House alto whether they should
adhere to them, or whether some mode other than the present
might not he substituted instead, either by taking those Bills ac-
cording to their importance and the interest the public attached
to them, or in any other way in which the public interest might
be better advanced. This was a subject peculiarly calling for
the earnest consideration of the House. He hoped that the
House of Commons would not consent to part with its virtual
jurisdiction ; but he, at the same time, hoped that the result,
ettiv:inueilfitthitleiye ewereta,
and
da csitonnneesxephneitnbi
independence
eob
3,wheti
the
were preserved
measure, would be that
, their integrity
session, pHrerisue,reveodf
Commonsinviolate. lastHe
as compared with the previous session, was greatly to
oscnhoafr ge
privatetlie duu
Bills,
its honour. It showed tot. the country that they were deter-
mined which devolved upon them in the
consideration etroadt ii
orhilgh their decisions were
!,he believed the public
found fault with at first, yet, onanthealt
, were satisfied with the integrity decisions.—( Hear. )
I He did not deny that there might be other tribunals,o as compe-
Il Commons
tent to judge of these interests as any the House
might institute. But what could one commission,
1
Of the most eminent scientific men, do. If they desired them
to inquire into the progress of these schemes, to report which
of them were the most worthy of attention, it would be abso-
lutely necessary to have as many commissions on this as there
were Committees in the past session. They might have twenty
or more,
buttherencitoiuplidiednotcboemtrnhaistsisoenceurrsityasorthtehrast
wpuobullidcbeeonin-
fidence in these m
ewdisto
lighten the labours of the h
in camsopp otsi
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es
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otonepiaceYheitmastel thef
the details had been reported
right of judging of results after
Committees. They reserved the
by those competent to do so.
now
appointmentsit down,
otfr utsht
the
that the House would sanctionffe ouli
w the
Committee he had asked for ?
Mr. COLLETT wished to know, before the question was
put, whether the Committee would be a secret or a select one ?