The Sun.
London, England, 1848-03-29 00:00:00

'requisite and ought to he givcn; but he had now ar-
rivA ut the :.onelu6itin tut. the d.•p might pro-
rerly merge in the Bov.rd of Trade. Afttr what had
passed he hoped the G.,maii4siun ould be broken up as
a matter if course.

Mr. F. T. BARING quite concurred in the staterneLt
that this board had been constituted with the expectation
that a greater contril over railways should be vested in
it; and if those powers were not to he given, certainly
the machinery of the board was tnu:•h too intricate and
c ,stly for c xisting purposes. But his impression was,
that a time might come when an extension of the powers
of this board might be demanded. His impression cer-
tainly was, that it was injudicious to vest railway busi-
ness in the Maid of Trade. By having the business in
one office he thought it could be much more satisfac-
torily transacted than by resting it in a variety of
rent authorities.

Sir J. GRAHAM did not think that this was the fit
opportunity for considering whether a new office should
be created. The time had come when all needless ex-
penditure ought to be checked.—(llear, hear.) It was
quite clear that two years ago they had created a new
office without delegating to it the performance of any
duties whatever. This was not the fault of Parliament
or of the Government ; but the error had been detected
and it was time that they should correct it. The Hon.
Member for Montrose, every one would agree, was one
of the most honourable and honest men in the House.
During his long Parliamentary career no one could say
that the Hon. Member ever sought for himself any
situation of honour, place, or profit, whatKiever. But
the Hon. Member had his hobbies, and the Railroad
Board was one of them.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said it was almost a matter of
impossibility to please the House on the subject of rail-
way legislation. Whatever plan was proposed for the
improvement of the system, some other plan was sure to
be suggested. His great objection to the motion of the
Hon. Member for Dorsetshire was that it prejudged a
question upon which the fullest information would ere
long be presented to Parliament, it being the intention
of the Railway Board before or immediately after Easter
to lay a detailed report before Parliament, exhibiting
what the board had already done—and he thought its
duties would be found to have been more arduous than
was imagined—and to make the suggestions which upon
mature consideration, it was prepared with as to future
legislation upon the subject. He doubted very much the
advantage of merging the duties of this Commission
altogether in the Board of Trade. He did not shrink
from any additional labour which might hence be
thrown upon himself—he believed he might say he
had never manifested any disposition to avoid labour
in the public service, any desire to secure an easy posi-
tion for himself—(Hear, hear)—but he thought that
such an alteration would not work well. The House
might rely upon it that the class of duties in question
were not to be properly performed by a few extra
clerks at low salaries; they required men of great skill
and of high and established reputation. He would not
meet the Hon. Gentleman with a direct negative, for
the motion was a fit one to be considered upon the full
information which would shortly be placed before the
House; but he would call upon the House to proceed to
the previous question.
Sir H. VERNEY urged the necessity of long notice
in legislating upon this important subject.
The House divided, when there appeared—'
For the previous question
Against it
Majority
PRINTING OF PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS.
Mr. HUME moved "That it be referred to the
Speaker, and the Committee for Printing of Papers, to
consider and to report to the House whether any and
what improvement can be made in the printing and the
engrossing of Bills."

Lord AtAHON, as a member of the Printing Com-
mittee, had no objection to the inquiry sought ; but as
to the suppositio❑ that any economy would be effected
by printing the Parliamentary papers in quarto instead of
in folio, the expense, on the contrary, would be enhanced.
Sir G. GREY regarded the motion as calculated to
lead to very beneficial results.
The motion was then agreed to.
ELECTION RECOGNIZANCES BILL.

Mr. J. S. WORTLEY moved the seeond reading of
this Bill. He urged the necessity of no longer delaying
to withdraw from that House the discretion as regarded
legal points, which now so often lead to collisions with
the courts of law. It was adruitt, d on all hands that
some legislation on the subject was necessary.
Doubtless whatever course might be taken would
be surrounded with diffinilties, but no diilicul-
ties would be so great as these which pervaded the
present system. The Act of 7 and S Vic. had been in
one respect found defective ; the case of recognizances
was altogether a casus omissus there, so that no parties
proceeding in election committees, whether the petitioners
or the petitioned, went upon any clear or e‘rtain princi-
ple. Recognizouces were not idle forms, but were pro-
vided as securities for the prosecution of any petition
entered against any Member. The 7 and 8 Vie. did not
neglect the subject of reeogniesnees, but, goisqg further
than 28 Geo. 111., provided that petitions should not
even be received unless recog.,nzences were previously
entered into ; but the defect of this Act, which he now
sought to remedy, was, that it provided no practical
means of trying the validity of the recognizances so
given. His proposal, differing in this respect from
that of the lion. Member for Midhurat, was to
give the Committee to whom the petitions
were referred power to amend the recognizances,
in cases which they deemed fitting. What he had
to propose was, that the first clause and the schedule
referred to in it be altogether omitted, inserting a clause
making the Bill universal instead of temporary. His
second proposition was, that instead of sending back the
petitioners to enter into fresh recognizances, the Bill
should give power to the Committee to entertain the pre-
liminary objections to the recognizances, and also to
decide upon their legality; another, that if the recogni-
zances were found invalid, and that by the lathes of the
petitioners, then that no further proceedings be gone
into. But that if the recognizances were invalid owing
to the fault of the examiner, then that the petitioners
should have power to make them good. There would
also be granted a power to the Committee to proceed
to make the recognizances good forthwith. Under the
present system the officer of the house passed recog-
nizances such as no lawyer would pronounce to
be valid. The Right Honourable Baronet opposite (Sir
G. Grey) had intimated, the other night, that these
propositions were rejected by the Committee unani-
mously. Now, the Committee was not unanimous, for
his lion. Friend the Member for Abingdon was absent
when the division was come to. The reason alleged for
rejecting the propositions was, that, if adopted, they
might lead to conflicting decisions. That was a diffi-
culty to which all judicial bodies were liable ; but an
Election Committee was the only form of judicial pro-
ceeding which the House was possessed of, and more-
over there decisions could not be conflicting, because
the circumstances of no two petitions were the same.
If the Bill which he submitted was agreed to, the House
would hereafter avoid coming into conflict with the
courts of law, and under these circumstances he begged
to move that it be read a second time.

Mr. BERNAL said the Committee manifested great
unanimity on the propositions of his Right Hon. Friend.
When he (Mr. J. S. Wortley) asserted that no conflict-
ing decisions could in future arise, he might be right,
but he ought to recollect that every decision became a
precedent, and was followed as such. He would never
consent to give such a power as was contained in the
proposed Bill to:a Committee of five gentlemen up stairs.
The questions which would have to be decided by them
were of vast importance, and as little as possible of law
ought to be submitted to Election Committees. He was
ready to admit that the last statute of 7 and 8 Vic.,
was deficient in sonic respects, but a general declaratory
Act would cure that evil, and suffice to render it more
stringent in respect to recognizances. Rather, therefore,
than pass such a measure as that recommended by his

Right Hon. Friend, he was disposed to say that a
general declaratory Bill ought to be brought in by which
the duties of the examiner of recogniaances would be
more clearly defined.
Lord MAHON expressed his intention to support the
Bill of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Bute,
!or it w as quite a diGrent one from that of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Midhurst, which he had opposed.
What the present Bill proposed to effect was, to give the
honest petitioner an opportunity ter rendering his recog-
nisances valid, and this was a good and a proper object
to effect. The Hon. Member for Rechester objected to
granting power to Election Cornmitte, s to decide upon
.legal questions, bat that objection applied to the whole
system of Election Committees, and for one he had never
approved of the present system. If the Hon. Member
for Rochester would bring in such a Bill as he had
described, he should have his (Lord Mahon's) hearty
support.
Sir G. GREY said that though he was quite indifl'e-
rent as to what decision the House might come to, he
still must say a few words on the motion of the Right
Hon. and Learned Member for Bute, who had taken the
unprecedented course of adopting a waif, or stray Bill,
and after cancelling the whole of its enact ive clauses, and
insetting entirely fresh ones, had brought it forward and
recommended it for the sanction of the House. It' such
a course of legislation was to be permitted, he could not
foresee the results. The course recommended would, if
adopted, stultify their former proceedings. Why did
not the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman conform to
the rules of the House, and bring in a new Bill? Ile
begged to say that he should vote against the motion.
Sir R. INGLIS said that on a recent occasion the
House was called on to divide on the word " that," but
on the present occasion they were called on to vote on a
sheet of blank paper, for, with the exception of the
preamble (which was not an enacting part of the Bill),
and the clause giving power to amend in future, the
whole clauses of the Bill which he moved the House to
read a second time were struck out. He objected,
therefore, to the second reading of a Bill of which all
but five or six lines had been struck out. He moved as
an amendment that the Bill be read a second time that
day six months.
Sir F. THESIGER found a difficulty in dealing with
the question, seeing that his Right Honourable and
Learned Friend the Member for Bute had told the

house that his object in introducing the Bill was that
a totally different measure might be framed en it.
He (Sir Frederick Thesiger) was of opinion that some
legislation on the subject was absolutely necessary. On
a former occasion the House had decided that the best
mode of proceeding was to refer the matter to a Select
Committee. He believed that that was a proper course,
but that the House had erred in not giving the Com-
mittee greater powers. It appeared to him that there
were only three courses open to the House with refer-
ence to this subject.—(A laugh.) They might either do
nothing, or have the House to net on each case, or they
might legislate finally on the subject. To do nothing
would, he feared, be highly dangeious, and very likely
to bring the llouse into collision with courts of law on
questions of privilege. The next course would be to
leave those questions to be decided by the House. But
the House had already decided that it was itself a most
improper tribunal for their decision. It then became