The Sun.
London, England, 1848-04-08 00:00:00

R.-man Cathode clergy and prelates among them, to the
number at that, date of 140,000 ; and since that
dat., the eututrer of signatures appended to the de-
claratioe had been increased to 280,o00.—(Hear, hear.)
He did rot, of c-urse, deny that there were manifests-
tines of much agitation and excitemlnt—rhat speeches
were delivered to large assembldges of men which
greatly tended to aggravate and extend that feeling of
agitation and excitement—speeches most irtfkriarn.itor)
and tending to most dAngereus consequeee-.—but he
had no hesitation in expressing his etwvictien, that,
with regard to Ireland at large, mere prevailed in that
country a spirit of loyalty, of devotion to the person of
the Sovereign,and of attachment to the Government and
to the institutions of the realm, as vivid and strong as
in any part of the empire.—(Hear.) It was for the de-
fence of this loyal and well disposed population, aid of
the loyal and well disposed population of the realm at
large, that the Government—findtrig the present law
too weak for the effectual suppression of sedition
and treason—now came to Parliament for such an exten-
sion of the law as would enable them to deal satisfacto-
rily with cases of this kind—with that political fever
which arose from time to time, and spread terror arid
alarm among the peaceful and well-disposed. He
would now proceed to state as accurately as he could
what the law was with reference to offences of this kind.
He would premise that the law in force in England was
not the same as that extant in Ireland on this subject;
or, at all events, that very grave doubts prevailed on
the point—doubts which had not before been raised, no
occasion, fortunately, having before occurred to question
the identity of the law in the two countries. The
general law with respect to treason was that of 25
Edward 111., c. 2, which, as extended to Ireland by an
Act of Henry VII., then applied to the United King-
dom; so that any deed committed by a subject of the
crown of these realms, coming within the provisions of
this statute, was liable to the penalties of treason. The
acts here contemplated were, the compassing the death
of the King, the levying war against the King, or aiding
his enemies to levy war against him, within the realm
or elsewhere. By the 36 Geo. 111., c. 7, the law of
treason was materially extended. By that Act, which
was intended to inure only during the life of that King,
and to the end or the session of Parliament next follow-
ing his demise—the Act was passed Dec. 18, 1795—it
was provided—

" That if any person or persons whatsoever after the
day of the passing of this Act, during the natural life
of our most gracious Sovereign Lord the King (whom
Almighty God preserve and bless with a long and pros-
perous reign) and until the end of the next session of
Parliament after a demise of the Crown, shall, within the
realm or without, compass, imagine, invent, devise, or
intend death or destruction, or any bodily harm tending
to death or destruction, maim or wounding, imprison
ment or restraint of the person of the same our Sovereign
Lord the King, his heirs and successors, or to deprive
or to depose him or them from the style, heneur,
kingly name of the imperial crown of this realm, or of
any otner of his ‘lajesty's dominions or c iuntrie..; or
levy war against his Mejesty, his heirs and successors,
witeiti this realm, in ord, r by toree or constraint to
compel him or thew to change his or their measures or
council., or in order to put any force or constraint upon
or to intimidate, or overawe, both Houses, or either
House of Parliament ; or to move or stir any foreigner
or stranger with force to invade this realm, or any other
his Majesty's dominions, or countries under the obeisance
of his Majesty, his heirs, and successors; and such cow-
passings, imaginations, inventions, devices, or intentions,
or any of them, shall express, utter, or declare, by pub-
lishing any printing or writing, or by any overt act or
deed, being legally convicted thereof upon the oaths of
two lawful and credible witnesses upon trial, or other-
wise convicted or attainted by due course of law, then
every such person and persons, so as aforesaid offending,
shall be deemed, declared, and adjudged to be a traitor
and traitors, and shall suffer pains of death, and also lose
and forfeit as in cases of high treason."
Under this extension of the former Act any person
going to France, and soliciting aid from the French
people to alter the existing institutions of the country,
rendered himself liable to the penalties set forth. The
36th Geo. 111., c. 7, as he had said, was designed as only
a temporary statute. but by the 57 Geo. 111. c. 6, the
first section of the 36 Geo. 111., which he had just read
to the House, was made perpetual. The latter Act,
passed in 1819, was, of course, subsequent to the union,
and consequently doubts had been very seriously enter-
tained whether, as rendering permanent a special Act
passed before the union, it could be considered applicable
to Ireland. The most authoritative legal opinions were
decidedly against the applicability of this renewed Act
to Ireland ; and as a matter of course against the
existence of any authority on the part of the Gtvern-
went to subject offences committed in that country to
the provisions of the Act. The law, therefore, might be
fairly stated as being, in point of fact, different in the
two countries. In point of principle, however, it
was quite clear that no such difference ought to exist.
—(Hear, hear.) The law upon this subject ought
most manifestly to be equally applicable to all parts
of the realm, In Ireland, however, the only law at
present applicable to treason was the 25th Edw. 111., to
which be had already referred. He believed he might
say that Ireland had derived no practical benefit from
the exemption he had stated. On the contrary, he was
of opinion that the harsh measures to which Ireland had
been from time to time subjected might have been spared
her, had the more effectual provisions of the treason
statutes of George 111. been applicable to her as well
as to the rest of the realm.—(Hear, hear.) What
was the consequence of the fact at the present juncture?
Why this: that when the Governmeut of Ireland, di-
recting its attention to the dangerous language spoken
by agitators, and to the dangerous effects of that lan-
guage upon the excitable persons addressed, turned to
the law of Ireland for a remedy, it found the powers
of that law inadequate to „the repression of the evil.
The only law applicable there ter4tolte offence of which
the disturbers of order were guilty, was a sedition few,
under which the offenders charged were at liberty to
put in bail, a circumstance placing delay in the way of
heir trial, and giving thew the opportunity, if they
chose to incur the additional risk, of seeking, in the over-
throw of the institutions under which they lived, to
u relieve themselves trom any trial at all—thus converting
heir very crime into a mode of averting its consequences
es to the mode of dealing with the case, it had been
suegested that the simple course would he to pass an Act
extending the Ist section of the Act 3i George 111., C. 7,
made a perpetual Act by 57 George 111., c. 6, to Ireland,
ehert;by the same law would be male to prevail in both
eumuntries. He quite agreed that the same law should
he enforced throughout all eortiens of the kingdom.
But there was another point first; to be consider el. The
; atige of" the Act was very prop,. ly must sweeping and
comprehensive; but its penalties, ut the same time, were,
it must be admitted, of extreme severity, and, as such.
altogether opposed to that mitigation of our criminal
code which trom time te time of late years had been
effected by the Legislature .—( Hear.) There bad
srigh!LtLyt-
been a gi eat clierige in public opinion on
.the
ountish•
f the offences which should meet with capital
ment,,
ta nd the Government
preset.matter, possible, in
nubtlhice
ntaawansotprelyrteacatlpyoarset
public
pinion. pinion. He did not propose, therefore, to extend the
d to Ireland, nor to continue it as it stood
Act as it stood
ystatutory provision at variance with the p g
to England. He did not desire to perpetuate orrotorteausaocti
l'ante years in criminal legislation.—(Hear, hear.) At
the same time he had no intention of repealing that part
of the statute which inflicted the penalty of death for the
ff'ence of compassing or designing the death or impri-
sonment of the sovereign—(hear, hear)—though, even
were they to repeal it, he believed the ordinary treason
law would visit such a crime with death. He proposed to
iepeal all the other portions of the section inflicting the
punishment of death for the offences named therein, and
he then proposed to re-enact the provision in other
respects—for Ireland as well as for the rest of the king-
dom—substituting, however, for the offence of sedition
that of high treason, and for the pain of death, the
punishment of transportation for life, or, at the discre-
tion of the judge, for a term of years not less than
seven. This was the substance of the proposed measure
—(Hear, hear)—but there was another material point
to which he must advert. The provisions touching the
devising or imagining the deposition of the sovereign, or
the levying war against her, &c., would meet much of
the public offence which ho was now denouncing to the
House, but it would not meet all the evil. It would have
been observed that, in expressing the mode of such
compassing or devising, the Act had only prohibited
the publishing a declaration in writing, or by overt
act. Now, it would be an overt act in a party to go
to a foreign country and invite foreign aid against his
own sovereign, or the institutions of his own country,
but a person on a platform in Dublin, or elsewhere,
however he might advocate the theory of suck a
change, provided he did not put forth a declaration in
writing, might be exempt from the penalties set forth
under the Act. He felt it right that on reviewing this
Act, in mitigating its severity, and applying it to the
whole kingdom, no loophole should be left at which
these gentlemen—who, while instigating others to dis
affection and its penalties, were extremely careful of
their own safety—should by simply omitting themselves
to print declarations which were regularly gathered from
their mouths, and printed in the newspapers, avoid the
chastisement in which they so unscrupulously sought to
involve the crowds whu listened to them. He therefor,
proposed to extend the penalties under the Act to all
such persens as should " by open unadvised speaki,i,ie.
compass, or imagine, or promote the said designs.
(Hear, hear.) This was the substance of the Bill which
he now proposed to lay on the table of the House—a Bel
which had the entire sanction of his Noble Friend the
Lord-Lieutenant, and without the provisions of which w
that Nobleman, than whom no man
•as more earnestly
ert had
expressed his entire inability
devoted to the principles of
constitutional
ut
iiiliosntearthel liblaffa'lrs
aidot
the country imi a constitutional manner. With the
f this measure, however, his Noble Friend had expressers
hmimself as P eriemely confident in the expectation of being
murder, and to make thmus,
able totn
quail beforeaullt'timienirthCaocuenta4'ds laws who wholly set then,
nou ,ht. There were other measures which would h
~t eeessery aceernietniments to the present Bill, measure
e, meet the epees"' now wade V) tlm disaffected to arm;
out he would not mix up these measures with that befors
the House, and which he now begged permission to in
troduce.—(Hear, hear.)

Air. J. O'CONNELL felt
bound to oppose the intro-
duction of this Bill, lie opposed it from no synapati
with the criminal agitation which now disturbed his un•
happy country, and with the persons who so unscrupu-
lously promoted that agitation, but from the sincere
conviction that while the laws at present in existence
were perfectly adequate to the suppression of the evil
contemplated, the introduction of this measure would
create the very highest discontent among classes
hitherto well disposed and peaceable.
Mr. FUME quivi approved of the mitigation of th.
provisions of tins Act, nod of its extension, in itr, irnended form, to Ireland; but he should decidedly
test against the introduction of the clause, w hteli, as
he understood it, Went to gag the free discussion of po-
litical subjects.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL explaine,l, that the prom
guns ep which the tionotteable Gentlemen otjected,
plied not to the ft ;e easeeessioff of public' opinion.
io Freeches direettel eee.,ett or crown of I.l'
e
Sorer, ifert.
Mr. II E see,' he had ne desire to impede the Go'
vernmAit in its efforts to .oppress unlawful egitation
but hr, ruuq protest against aey eaegefg clauses, such as
he undi rsteed that new proposed :o be. Suppo-e )1e
'e
vv, re to ha at sume public etiug that ipp, nto say
preferred a republic—(Cries of ‘• Oh, oh.") Well, b.!
would defer any observations on the provision till a
came duly before them.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that, if he stood alone, he
would give his vote against this measure. lie was sur-
prised to hear the Right Hon. Barocet propose such s
Bill as he had hid upon the table at the present junc-
ture. He should take example by what had happened
abroad, and the concessions which had been made abroad.
—(Hear, hear.) One of the first of these concessions
was entire liberty of the press; and yet here was the
Right Hon. Baronet raking up a statue of Edward ID"
to effect restrictions of the press and of speech in this
country. He asked would the House of Commons agree
to such an infraction of the constitution?—(Hear, hear.),
He warned the Government that the Bill would be in'
ffectual as their coercion Bill had been. He had then
told them to try a special commission; they had tried it;
and had found it amply sufficient for the vindication of
the law. But he supposed that this was one of the re'
medial measures which the Government had prornise4;
--(Hear.) It was a contradiction of all the former acts an
professions of the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern.
went. Instead of proposing new laws for sedition the Ge-
vernment should attend to the claims and sufferings of the
people. It was Junius who had sail that agitation was
the hue and cry which foretold the change that was
coming. If this Bill passed, open agitation would 11
transformed into secret conspiracy, and matters wont;
be in a worse position than ever. As to invasion fro.,
a foreign country, he had no fear of that ; and if it did
come he should be one of the first to oppose it ; but ."
' believed it to be a mere cry, got up to support coercive
laws. He asked the Liberal Members who had been
sent to that House by the people whether they well'.
support one of the most tyrannical laws that had ever
disgraced the statute-book ? The principle upon whin,!
the Government was acting was, in fact, one of coereien
both for England and Ireland ; and he trusted that the.
Irish Members, at least, would not content themselv.!
with giving a silent vote in opposition to it. Let tn,!
Irish people have equal laws, and then they would fl:"_
fear a few uncomfortable men, who were uncomfortable
from negligence, from idl, ness, and from want of le"
dustry.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord might have e
strong government if he rested on the people, instead of
raking up old and obsolete statutes tor their coercion'
He had told the people often that they had greater
privileges, if properly exercised, than any people in
• Europ,-; but those privileges were freedom of the presO
F and of speech, and it these were taken away the privi'
,e4es would vanish at once.—(hear, hear.) At a time
, when thrones wsre totterieg, and sceptres erashinll
around us, it it monstrous to hear the British Geyer!n'
meat proposing a series or coercion laws. Great stress
had been laid on articles appearing in certain nowt;
papers, but had Hon. Members looked over the files e'
the Morning Chronicle during the agitation for the
Reform Bill? They might there see how Colonel Ma'
cerone gave instructions in street firing, and the beet
modes of resisting soldiers in cities. That was n,°
treason, beceuseit helped the Noble Lord and his Friends
into power; but still it had a wonderful resemblance t°
the articles complained of at the present moment
' Although generally, and as a matter of courtesy, 611 s
readings were conceded, ho should on the present era'
zion go out, it' he went alone, in opposition to the Govern'
went proposition.
Mr. R. M. FOX said that it would be quite possiblee
to restore the prosperity of Ireland if proper roe°,
were taken for that purpose. Every one connected wild
d
Ireland would join with him in abhorrence of the inflate'_,
harangues, the treason or sedition (whichever it I"'
called) of Messrs. Mitchell and Meagher; lut Govern
meat might do much, and the landlords of Ireland might
do much, to render such harangues entirely innocuous'
,
In his opinion quiet might in one month here-establish':
in Ireland if Government would come forward,
the people a poor..law equal to their distress, and gtv'°„';
them the right to relief. They must also extend
franchise and the number of representatives. If the'
would do this, and consent to consider in that House ti",•
much mooted question of the repeal of the union, Aran'
quillity would soon be restored in Ireland.
Mr. GRATTAN said he rose to state his conviction Of
the loyalty of the Irish people. He should never ha/s
doubted that loyalty, but for the extraordinary pronee't;
Lion of the Government, and the odious spy system whie
it appeared had been established in Ireland. He feared
that Lord Clarendon had been misled into the fortni":
able preparations he had made in filling every corner
of the city of Dublin with troops. He should have
believed that there was no cause for alarm, e";
cept for old women and unmarried ladies, had he 11,
seen an advertisotnent, headed " Patrick Hy's°
pike-maker to the Castle"—(A laugh)—and soneethinoi
very similar in Limerick, where a man who had et°.
behind the chair at a public meeting, and called out 0.1
pikes, turned out to be a Government spy. Why'
was reviving all the horrors of the Castlereagh system'
—(Hear, hear.) As to this Bill, it would fail as fornief
Bills had failed, and so would their entire system °
governing Ireland. They were governing that country
4
with an army—a system which, in the present state
~
the world, they could not maintain. They must tan
some new system, one which should send back the sf;
sentees. It was Demosthenes who had said that SP
property of the absent and indifferent became the Prel
of the present and enterprising. That was the case 10
Ireland when the country was in the hands of the freile;
coated men. The people of Ireland were sta*ving,,,
„,b°
th,•y had no wish for separation or a republic. .-ibb
only republicans were the favoured people of the pert! I
while the Roman Catholics of the south had direct le
opposite tendencies. As for the priests, they vieors
neither republican nor French, for they could 0.0
but remember the treatment their order had received 1r
the first French revolution. The Honourable aletoh°(
concluded by recommending ameliorative, instead °f
coercive, measures as remedies for the present condition
of Ireland.
Lord D. STUART said that the Bill before rbe
House was one for the better protection of the Crnvi"
and Government. Now he thought that the best wolf
eecure th•• Crown and Government would be to attend
to the wants and wishes of the people.—(Hear, beer')
There was no ether way, an,' the observation aPPlie'd
equally to Ireland, Scotland, and England.—(Heard
lie was not one of those who was in favour of rash
and
hasty changes, but lie believed the people of Engil
would not long be content without an extension ofi
franchise ; nor would they long be content to see sw-
boroughs represented by the same number of Merobe",,
-
as large, populous, and important cities ; if, indeed, the :6
weuld be content to see such boroughs representeoll
all. What the people wanted was a new Reform .131
and that principally because they believed it would lad
to a more equal system of taxation. In Ireland too
there were many things the people had a right to `IL
mend, though he was not prepared to say that sO"'
measure such as that now proposed might not be Del
abroad
YroAr
dfoitwas
throughout impossibletheland to
without perm istomter treason
attempt
stS
made to suppress it. But when Government broug
forward measures of ceercion, they a ere boonshe thought, to accompany them with messui-
.a
to ameliorate the condition of tho people, 11°01
supply their wants. This was the opinion he l h
expressed in November last on the Arms Bill, whin
he had voted iu favour of in the confidence that (lover-ti
went would lose no time in bringing forward attutlioree;
tive measures. That confidence he was sorry however).
say had been misplaced; for although April bad arrived;
with the exception of a tenant•right Bill, which he tlirt
derstood was so complicated that it would be difficultao
not impossible, to make it work, and one other PI
which had been introduced in the other House, no re,
medial measures had been brought lorward. That Ire
land had many grievances which demanded redress
could not be denied. There was the Irish Church. the,
representation, the franchise, the municipal institutions`
and many other grievances which they ought W se`
about redressing when they proposed measures to ti
down violence and sedition. If Irishmen were treated
with justice, their loyalty might at all times and uOl,
all circumstances be depended on. He concurred W'/-(
the Hon. Member fur Montrose in his condemnation 05
the gagging clause. He should oppose the enectrael3
of any law which interfered with freedom of speech' ~.,
(Hear, hear.) Liberty of speech was ono of the 039,1
valuable rights a free people could possess, and it cool ,
not be too carefully or jealously guarded. He could
sure the Government that the people of England wet„
regard the Bill in this respect with jealousy and 00-
pinion. Iu voting for the present motion, his object Wt1,
that the measure might be introduced and considered'
but he should reserve to himself the right to rote
against the second reading, should he afterwards dinar
prove of it.
Mr. REYNOLDS held that a Bill so unconstitutional
in its nature should be met on the threshold. 110 had
warned the Government in November that their Aril
' Bill would fail, and there could be no greater proof °a
he failure of that measure than that Ministers silo&
consider this Bill necessary. The object was to inflict
transportation as the punishment for offences which wee'
new punishable by fine and imprisonment. But there
13
1
was another and more important objection to the":
which was, that it left
to the Attorney-General to Pr:
secute and infliet the punishment of transportation f
words which a man might have uttered in the moment of
passion and excitement, or even for words he might net";
have uttered, but which might be proved against him
tome hired incendiary; and he was sorry to say IrelavA"
was fertile in the production of such characters—V,
'vaeurgnhi2e—and
Ilemiehta,
might refer to the conduct
to add that all Qv
mi•sioner, in sending groitt:nryets,ohje.t doi3ertoicwonu employer
Browne,
tgnemed
pet
nho lie alato:'
'he ienfpoirkmetitohne
(Fle'Peemndaenti
opnarlt:culars of which had appeared in tb;
andtoo other papers. papers. He thought,, Gov.er.ticaneffloi
upon persons of that description
hich they acted. The Arms BP;
'as passed in consequence of the numerous threateniay
notices which had been sera, and which, in the majority Ii
'r cases, he believed had emanated from the police
agents. In the case of Colonel Browne, however, he f°r.
one could never believe what they had been told, the;
Government had sanctioned his proceedings.—(Hear.)
Let them consider for a moment what was the condition
of Ireland. In 18 months 1,000,000 of people had died
from want of the common necessaries of life, and day hsi
lay many were still dying from the same cause. Swell
some allowance should be made for the language of a,
people naturally excitable when suffering and
,octi a calainity.—(Hear, hear.) If in Euglan.';
;me people were in the sum• position, he doubtal
..ot hut that they wool.] be talking treason 012 °lf
Idi S. Ile could tell them that but it r the influence e,
,he Roman Catholic hi, larch) Ireland nor all the us:
litary power of the Government would be able to koer