The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-14 00:00:00

ought to be at once and for ever abolis
He inferred, from what bad fallen from the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite, that in his opinion the practice of goeg:
ging had nearly arrived at its termination. Why, wh
the number of lashes was reduced from 1,500 to 1,000,
the reduction was hailed with delight by the army'
but still an opinion prevailed that the number
could not be further reduced. The number, however,
was subsequently reduced to 200, and then the reductionwas admitted to be necessary; but still it was thought
in the army that it could not further be reduced. Now
the number had been reduced to 50, and the army 0.1):
proved of the reduction, but still it was thought the
number could not be further reduced. Now, leaving
out of the question the physical evils which arose,
from flogging, leaving out of the question the phYsica,
sufferings which it involved, he asked whether it %of
humane, whether it was just, that even the poweqe
inflicting fifty lashes should exists---(Hear, hear.) t
hop, d that this system of flogging in the army was
an
to last for ever. He felt quite certain that no a
could receive fifty lashes from a cat-o-nine tails t.
with-
out his life being in danger. The lash with such a '
with nine knots on each thong, was equal to eightyl
strokes.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever might be the skill
and judgment of the surgeon, it was impossible for 111,
to say that no danger would arise from fifty lashes.
feeling was prevalent in the House hat the names e
the regiments should not be specified in the returns'
but it was well known there were regimentsmik,
which there were little or no flogging, w;"1,1
in others there was a great deal, and they should
quire into the cause of the difference. He knew of 0,
regiment in which there had not been a case of floggels
for twenty years, and it was important they snot
know the reason why there had been no application
that punishment. With regard to that return wbiets
required information, as to whether the party hads,fol
vived toe punishment, he admitted that the 've., the
putting that return was liable to objection, for it 'ot
party did happen to die within the year, it did nth
follow that there was any connexion between the (11,
and the flogging. But that an individual might dic
e°
year alter the punishment, and from it, as the rens
cause, no medical man could deny. In this case, whe„b
death did ensue, it was from a secondary disease whili
supervened on tee (fleets of the flogging. It was wt
known that fifty lashes lacerated the skin Tess
much, and it was known that the blood began tn,
even after the infliction of twelve lashes. The
thus given to the skin might operate fatally t 0 lie
individual by acting as a remote cause of death.
deprecated, however, the lash under any circumstavi;s,
By adopting a system of rewards and punishments ad'
cipline would be more effectually preserved. A•111';
when he became a soldier, ought not to cease to b
citizen—he should not be treated as a slave; sad' To
lieving that the return would be productive of good
would vote for the return of the Hon. Member "
Winchester. to
Mr. WARBURTON did not deem it necessary
enter now into the question of corporal punishalwe tis
He ccnsidered the subject immediately before them at
the returns moved for, and of these returns he thoug
.„oth,
none of the possessed half the importance of the
Every one who knew anything of moral evidence
of
itsbe prepared to say, upon looking at persons a
flogging, that the average of those who died frnaitbss
effects actually exceeded the average deaths frons °/s
causes in the same regiment.—(Hear, hear.) Lett bet
know the average mortality after flogging, and Whe. ss
those who had been so punished died in greatr noire, be
than those who were not. Such information wen,'" his
most important and useful ; in fact, it was, tapas
opinion, the most important part of the motion, an tor
Government must present it to the House in an JP
objectionable form. Such a return as this would en-tss
them to judge with absolute certainty whetbef h
it
punishment did or did not affect life or limb, vih'c
professed not to do.
ira;
Mr. C. BULLER thought it would be utter,' g 0;
possible for the Government to find information ler
which to compile the returns for which the Hon•
her had moved, as there could be nothing more
cost
cult than to obtain information as to the average Into'
of deaths against those who had received enirrsoish
punishment. What they objected to was to ttl'ol,
returns which must, from the difficulty in the lag
only mislead the public mind—(Hear, hear)-'an ter'
the officers of the regiments open to severe anialatipea
sion on the part of the public. He would not toile" par
the invidious nature of the return, particularly that :booli
tion respecting the number of the regiment. If diet'
have happened that in one regiment a mall ha 1d be
after being flogged, in that case the regiment wTiiitorl
run down ; for in 99 cases out of 100 no nr;diolS
casualty to human life occurred without some in,„'"uselr
comparisons being made.—(Hear, hear.) lie only 0 for
tioned this to show how slight a ground there: goat
the arguments of his Hon. Friends opposite. Th
wage
Member for Kendal sought for a return of the ther
number of persons who had died after flogging a ears
causes. If they could attain returns for fiftY Yof
specting an army of 100,000 men, and 10,00donoree in•
had been flogged, they might be able to afford t. king
formation on the subject. But he considered
would that,
ff
a few instances, such as these documents
n
would lead to numerous erroneous inferences.ho
et'
should be remembered that those men who
punished were generally of a dissoluten
They would then have to abstract from their 1,2,04
the results of the general habits of those persons all:here
a
to. If this would lead to incontrovertible evidegcer to
could be no persons more anxious than they Weiretbitt
produce these documents, but they. were satisfied
they would have quite an opposite tendency, and "Ebet
mislead the public mind. With respect to the
t 0 act
question, as to whether the trials were open aot
public. Now, it was impossible to say whether bet
all these trials were carried on formally or not, foriyso
would have-to ask officers, who would not be likely the
convict themselves. He did not mean to enter latknot be
abstract principle of the law on this subject, nogre
could state that courts-martial were open courts• fission
was another point to which he should, with pert" s was
of the Ilous,, allude. He considered that ther.to to
great injustice in the remarks that were made as That
instruments with which punishment was inflicteolioritieSt
was, he understood, regulated by the proper ant on tbs
and he understood that there was a general rule
subject.
Memberg
Mr. CRAVEN BERKELEY said the non. toini
for Finsbury was mistaken when he supposed the
were ever averse to a reduction below 1,000 lasheLd 511't
After a few words from Mr. M. GORE, who saint of
Charles Napier was not altogether averse to the -
the lash, disc°.
Mr. ESCOTT replied, from the course the 0400
sion had taken, he was at a loss to know what 011°1
of the returns the Government was dispose- sprits?,
and what to withhold. As far as he could tin's vvia.
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. F. Maule), 11,e,r,11-
ing to grant all the returns except Nos. 8 and V." 04V'
Lord JOIIN RUSSELL said he was willing
to Nos. 1,2, 3, and 4, and not the others naraet" satin°
Mr. ESCOTT would then address a few obaerd.j
Se
on those returns which the Noble Lord refase
considered it was most important that the publ'e,,,, of the
know all about these cases of flogging, the rian/- for r
regiments in which they took place, the order openo
execution of punishment, whether the courts wereeb cilsue;
closed, and all other particulars connected with ‘.3gts- of fro
What was it that had caused the great diminatt",, tbs Pis
punishment? Why, it was the verdict of a jury's oel
man had suffered capital punishment where he oat ita;
sentenced to be whipped ; and surely it was a esill3lo
portant fact, that the public should know 11°.,,i at 10
similar instances had occurred. He was surpris7rstilrh;
reason which had been given for refusing th'a to the
namely, that the communications of the surgeiikeot ctft
Commander. in-Chief were confidential. shoese,
siser that they could refuse these returns, but theic
be contented to take what he could get; howe,rsacl tbs
returns, which were now refused, he would golan,
at no future day. He should get them next sesi.,l-sulahleas
with some others which had been denied. lie
the Government, and that in no unfriendly aerse aid d
they were destroying the confidence of the 09tihe 0°,1; r
the country by some of their proceedings,
,a,nss aani-e
tell them that they would hear more about it -
mot'
time. Goverp
Captain POLHILL would support the
the greafroo
He was aware from personal experience dale arloYandet
vantages which arose to the discipline evos etortarderly
the practice of flogging. He, when he ken t
cyan !,hrose.
of a troop in the service, had a most
ry 131111" 0 lashes'
soldier, upon whom he had tried eve Assad 30 beat
vain except flogging, at last he was ons-- ~d the
and he became positively the, cleanliest, 5°
eat in
soldier in his regiment. amentirli
Dr. NICHOLL would not press
TRADING.
1. Bill tO
of t"e
consequence of
sthuesprDolsiir of th_ert_onlne Lord.
Mr. HINDLEY moved the first reading
amend the laws relative to Sunday Trading.
~,s op'
CRAVEN BERKELEY said he l'entl,ss. Oen'
reoenfstset Id;
tefußritlhl
e
hain PECHELL withdrew his Ina4-°i
•
GentlemansPeoscsetiaropt.nht
,fiNr
HINDLEY
wouldLrEeya dniconotgnps
nll.llt.
to the arr , for a
'erptirsounvrigiulicell7; ;recsoepl:
of a report presented to the Board of Tr" '
ae,
the state of the law affecting Wreck ar.d Salver_rts of
•
the practices u different parts
the relating to the same, 1
the kingdom.
The lock.
House then adjourned at Sevssn u'e
e relating tdo

BIRTHS v,l ara
On the sth inst., at Beverley,* the lady of ..---ff
Hutton, Esq., of a daughter. , gator
On the 9th inst., at &ma hill,
House, Haverstoc,
stead-road, Mrs. Richard Madigan, of a son. Gus
On
~,, us
111—•tavii5
On the 10th inst., at Newcastle-on-Tyne, *
Coulson, of a daughter.
On the 11th inst., • Rin egent-square,
of a daughter.the la
On the 11th inst., in Brunswick-square, Brighton,
of the Morris, of a daughter. ' of .11. Jt.
On the 1:1th inst., at Westbourne-terrace, the wife
Mrs. John WrinstiluleP
Hussey, Esq , of a daughter.
_____—.------------

Jol►¢'
MARRIED. of
On the 11th inst., at Freshwater, Isle of
Duke Coleridge, Esq., to Jane Fortseue, third datigilm'
the Rev. G. T. Seymour, of Farringford, of,,igtiorcl
On the 11th inst., at Tunstall, Kent, the 11.8v* 000
Kaye Burney, M.A. to Emily Dulcibella, daughter
late Rev. G. Moore, Canon of Canterbury-

of
\Ovnutnhe 28th ult., CarolineDClEartn, the Youngest daughter
On n.l MurPhY E., M.D., South•mall, Cork. Ems'
On
the Bth inst., at Ensham, Oxfordshire, J. Swann' late
0_ the 9th inst., at Bognor, Elizabeth, relict of the
Sir_n entinck Cavendish Doyle, Knight, Captain R.N. ,
v nce'r
0 the 10th inst., Mary, wife of Mt John Scott, A 13-
square, aged 63.
oldest daughter of Lieutenant-Colonel Gordon Caul
On the 11th inst., at Nea House, Hants, Charlotte ‘r4lo.'"r_l:l;
Grenadier Guards, aged 17. —.....t-'1
Cron,
IP

.. -------—----
of No. 314.
London: Printed and Published by ACITIIDO "101.150, u freci vet
Strand, Printer, at The San Office, lit:4ll'g, Strand. ill_tli Am ;011
of the Savoy, is tb o County of ;11.1ddlonas, friara,
14, 1846.