The Sun.
London, England, 1848-10-10 00:00:00

man at all.—Did you speak to him, or he :to you ?
Never.--Did you reply that he was a right fellow, but
that the other two were d—d Papists? I did not.—Did
you ultimately go with this person into a house to have
some refreshment? I did not.—Did you request him to
join a club? I did not.—Did he say he would be ex-
pelled from college if he joined any club? I never heard
any such thing at all.—Did you say he ought to know
what you meant, and ask him if he would not prefer a
Government situation to college? No, I never said it.—
Did you say be might easily obtain one if he liked,
and that he could easily join you in getting up infor-
mation, and giving it to Governmen ? On my oath
I never used such language, or anything like it, in
my life.—Did you meet by accident the same per-
son Dalton in the street about three weeks after-
wards ? No.—Did you say you had been arranging
matters with Colonel Brown ? Never, never.—Did
you say to him, Till the priests were exterminated
and Popery :put down, things would never be right
in Ireland ? Never.—Did2 he allude to Mr. O'Brien,
and say he was more criminal than the Papists? Never.
—Did you say it was lawful for a Papist to commit per-
jury against a Protestant, and that you thought it would
be fair for a Protestant to commit perjury against a
Papist? Never.—Did he call you a rascal, and tell you
to quit the room? No.—Did you immediately change
your tone of voice and manner, and say you were only
trying him; and did you then ask him if he did not know
you were humbugginc, him? No.—You deny it all? I
(10; it never occurred.'
A young man named Henry Dalton was then sworn,
and examined by Mr. WHITESIDE, and gave the follow-
ing testimony:—l travelled by an express train from
Dublin to this town, and have only just arrived in Clon-
mel. I left Dublin at three o'clock this morning. My
father held a situation in the Cashel Cathedral; my own
business is that of a teacher of Trinity College. I was
at one time a teacher at the Rev. Mr. Huddart's school
at Dublin; I was also a teacher at Dungannon College,
under Dr. Darby; I have also taught in this county; I
was resident tutor in the house of Mr. Pennefather, of
Marlow (one of the jurors), in this county.
Mr. WHITESIDE —Do you remember being in a tavern
at the corner of Stephen-street, about the middle of
June last ? I do.—Did any discussion arise in your
presence between three persons? Yes.
The witness was then confronted with Dobbin, and
desired by Mr. Whiteside to say whether he was one

the three persons he had seen-the tavern. Witness

Ile was upon my solemn oath.—Tell the jury wha,
passed between those three persons before you took part
in the conversation. Witness—Two of the three were
advocating a repeal of the union, and the substance of
their remarks was, that repeal could never be obtained
except by the means advocated by the late Mr. O'Con-
nell—moral force. Dobbin said that he was a Protes-
tant and an Orangeman of the north, and that the inde-
pendence of Ireland could never be obtained except by
force of arms. He said that the time had now arrived
when a repeal of the union, perhaps, would be obtained,
and that a Republican Government and the principles
of John Mitchel would benefit Ireland. He mentioned
the name of Smith O'Brien, and said his policy was too
tame. I had not taken part in the conversation
then ; but that man asked me what was my opinion ?
I said it was my opinion that agitation was the bane of
Ireland, and I attributed my present suffering altogether
to it. I said that I was averse to the repeal of the union,
and that I signed the petition against repeal as a student
of Trinity College. Mr. Whiteside—Did Dobbin do any-
thing? I noticed him distort his face; ho made some
distortions of his face. I left, and was going home, when
he followed me and said that the men wished me to have
supper with them. I said it was too late, and must
go home. He said that I must come. I did go. Mr.
Whiteside —Did he, after that night say anything to you
about joining a club ? Witness—He asked had I joined
a club, or would I ? I told him I would not join any
club, as a notice had been posted upon the college walls
that any student wouli be expelled who joined a club,
and I intended going in for scholarship the following
year. I told him I would lose all my collegiate prospects.
He said that although I might lose my prospects there,
I might not elsewhere; and he told me that Government
might appoint me as the head of some colonial college,
as I was fit for it.—(Dobbin here smiled). Mr. White-
side—Did you separate shortly afterwards ? Witness—
We remained till one o'clock.
Examination resumed—How long was', it before you
saw him again? Three or four weeks, at the corner of
askedwT went
y-innti
intom set rat eo
he
take
uks
eeHfaeo
for refreshment.
p glassped
o . ume
un
cpo n t
punch
paid
h
with
ai
ds
him,t
ooud r
it
and
nr
wn tel
Wit-
ness here said that he was subject to a nervous palpita-
tion of the heart. Mr. Whiteside—Have you ever
spoken to Mr. O'Brien or his attorney?—No. What
passed upon the occasion to which you referred?—
Dobbin asked was Dens' Theology read in college. And
I said it was not to my knowledge. He said that by
Dens a Roman Catholic was qualified to swear and get
absolution from a priest for any information false or
true. He said that the only way to counteract it was to
swear counter to it. He said if I joined a distinct club
from him, and that both our informations agreed, credit
would be attached to it, and the more the better. I
called him a rascal and a blackguard, and told him to
leave the place. He then went out and came in again,
and said he was surprised that a man of my
learning could not perceive that he was humbugging.
Hr. Whiteside—When did you read Dobbin's evidence
in the paper? Witness—On Thursday. I should have
said that I mentioned these circumstances at the time
they occurred to others, and on reading the paper, I said
to them, " Oh! do you remember what I told you about
Dobbin?"

Cross-examined by the ATTORNEY.GENERAL—You say
you gave your address to Dobbin by the light of the
lamp? Yes.—Where do you reside now? In 27,
B. ishop-street.—Attorney-General—How long have you
lived there? About three years; the person's name is
Mr. Desmond, and he was in the dealing line, selling
provisions.—Where did you reside the remainder of the
three years? In different places; I was in 49, Digges-
street; sometimes I filled situations, and sometimes
changed my lodgings. I have been in England.—
Where? In Liverpool, looking for a situation; which
I may say I got, but lost it afterwards. I engaged with
a gentleman named Dove, whose residence was called
Makinpeace Hall. On going over, however, he wrote to
me in Liverpool to ask if I were an Irishmon; I said I
was, and a freeman of the city of Dublin; and his reply
was, that an Irishman would not suit.—(A laugh.)—How
did you live in Liverpool? I had two or three pounds
with me when I arrived, and earned three or four by setting
up a night-school.—Where? In Liverpool.—What name
lid you pass by in Liverpool? Mr. Dalton, of course.—
Attorney-General—There is no mistake about that? Wit
ness—Not the slightest. Since my return I resided with
AFDermott, except, as a matter of fact, I lived with a
woman named Kelly, opposite Peter's-row, for a few
weeks or so; it was a private house. I paid DlDermott
3r. 6d. a week; I don't teach a school there, but I teach
pupils there; they don't come to me, for the place is too
humble for that, but I go to them; that, however, makes
no great difference, for I think as much of myself as my
examiner, when in college.
ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Of course you do. You said
You had the conversation with Dobbin in June. What
was the date?—l don't register dates of modern events.
You were at O'Neill's, you say, for four or five hours
before the other men came in. Were you reading the
paper all that time?—l was; I was reading the history
of the French revolution.
When did that revolution take place? When I said
the French revolution, it was not altogether the case, it
was the late attempt after a republican form of govern-
ment, when Lamartine was put out. I know it was about
the middle of June, by the review in the park.
Who paid for the supper?—l did not. I cannot
tell. The bill, I suppose, was paid by the other three:
How did you know Dobbin's name ?—He told
it to me going home. When the man spoke to you
about Trinity College, what did you say ? I said I was
a divinity student.—Did you graduate? I did not. I
have taken my name off the books. Well, I cannot say
I took it off—it was struck off about May last, because I
could not pay 71. 10s. for my fees. Did you not come in
to see Dobbin when he was being examined just now?
No! I was told I was wanted, and I came in; but, on
my oath, not to see Dobbin or any other persons.—Was
he pointed out to yon? He was not.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, addressing Dobbin—Do
you know this gentleman? The two witnesses stood on
the table, confronting each other. Dobbin—On my
oath I never saw him.—This statement produced an ex-
traordinary sensation in the Court.
A juror to Dalton—Did you give this evidence to any
one before you came to this town? I did; I mentioned
it to some friends. I told them that I was almost con-
vinced that this Dobbin was the same person I had met
in the public-house. I swear that I never expected to
be brought here. I wrote a letter, stating these facts,
which I sent to the Freeman's Journal office, upon hear-
ing the evidence given by Dobbin, with a view to having
it published, and the people there have forced me to
come down here. When I wrote that letter I had not
the most remote ides that I would be here to-day.
Dobbin was then examined by one of the jury. n,
said that he was not a member of the council of 21.
That he went to the meeting in the capacity of a repro.
sentative of a club. He was a representative of a club,
and as such formed part of the council.

The two witnesses were then ordered to withdraw.
Mr. O'Brien—l think it right to make my acknow-
ledgments to the Attorney-General fur alLwing this
witness to be examined.

The LORD CHIEF JUSTICE re-commenced. --- If
what Dobbin says be true, the whole of that state-
ment of Dalton is a pure and absolute fabrication.
But if this witness speaks the truth, it is for
you, and you exclusively, to decide. It ought
not to operate on you, if you do not believe
it.
His Lordship then commented upon the evidence which
brought the case down to the 25th July when Mr.
O'Brien called upon the policemen at hlullinahone to
surrender, promising them promotion and batter pay
than they had. This evidence about going to the bar-
racks at Mullinahone was most important, as to whether
Mr. O'Brien was meditating personal safety or a revolu-
tion; and he (the Chief Justice) believed that the latter
was the obvious view of the evidence, for to meditate dis-
arming the soldiers, or to place them under any other
pay but that of the sovereign, was as clear an overt act
of high treason as could be committed. His Lordship
then came to the affair of Boalagh-common, and said,
whether Mr. O'Brien was in command when the shot,
were fired, or gave the commaud for that purpose, does