The Sun.
London, England, 1833-03-20 00:00:00

Another q‘jaerr
to l;
trieonne twe
icohf thel Actbee no
put
u1t81.9..0 would he
—(Cheers.)
e
hla
wioteid Is.;
martial, or to Whitefeet and Volunteers:
htte
at pre-ent,!:,
to neither. The law was strong ens)!
were fairly, fully, duly, and impartiedl
older,
(Cheers.) 111 in was always corrupt, :1
not teP;
objected to intrusting men with power In
commonrd. It
0,
them disregard the common law of thea
tu
duty of the House to make the law not
o. r„ine?
n
therj,
that it would not be abused by good men, bar':iied by 10
ciple that it might not he perverted or misaPP
1,1 te
or wicked men.—(Cheers.) en for ts
Mr. ROLFE wished to state til° vev-- (led to
He had been at first much and decidedly oPP
the debate
clause, but at length, after listening to to
become a reluctant convert to it, and meant t,re ore
sku
puaPt ei)d)rft;o7tl(seC
ebeenriee greater t
t
no stidness of folly equal to, and no cowar.
ear le;,,
that of perservering in error from th
!tiaeuenrst,,
cr
thauget afraid.—(Loud cheers.) „Elie 0•
00
l,imfry
toted the course he meant to pursue. •
ed
Learned Gentleman who spoke lost had re level Go d/14
one great difficulty. The Hon• and Learr.'_i by Jar
had stated, that if there was not to be toot.
.l
ed,
did not know what better could be subsiel,tjunos„,.i
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had proPu . if b.,
said he knew tua, better than military trio
nilvasier
were admitted on that reasoning, as soon as Ihuoil,S"r
that jury trials were not sale, then military Tr: thstjaivv,_
justified. It was said that it was not provi:d rotebei
implied
had been intimidated; but it was part Of he evid4ll
ianntdhola,teighter.!"
well satisfied by a priori reasoning, as bY t • t all terx
foe's. Intimiclauion had teen practised again'
theoi,/
(lasses; no man was a free agent ; and !ver.e:eteine!.
I
'tas the only class that were free from mti.igitlielidiesoi
(Cheers.) But there was evidence nf. 'that ee§
l'arriekshaugh was a case of this kind: u
b ttot,e;,.
enough; the administration of justice ough" tioned 4
peetemi. The Right Hon, Secretary had me° •otycei,
in Cl .nmel 288 nurses were ceded over before a)
be s m aline' led The Hon. Member for Drogh,dr
o.ot OF,
914'
peeved noticing more than that the jurors w"tika, oeu
f crwarcl. If it were indolence only, it unighte% vie)
the I "o;erere(l
but when murder was stalking through
that an occasion when indolence should bee swiesis
Again, at Kilkenny, fines were levied to th
201., 301., and 501 , before the jury bilut be
could be c° :trol
attend. What wis the cause? Was it gq with
intimidation? At least they could not get 0
not getting juries, should they not provide uould
means for the administration of justice ? irle of (111„
call upon persona to administer justice at the risk
ger to their own persons.—(Cheers.) 'beuoristOrtjtjl
see some modification of the clause• in ce add Id
there was a Judge Advocate, an Ihe recotorne §
i
the Judge Advocate should be empowered to e ttes•
silo
rscipitulate the evidence, so us to fulfil e"`ll4 thoogii
the functions of a Judge. He was justified, off
in supporting the clause, and he me silt to give 'I
to tee Government —(Ctieers.)
Lord DARLINGTON had suppo ted the Bill, Ileg destg,
wished that the clause should be left as it has' • 01,
that it should not be frittered away and de"o'siiesteip
was sati.fied that by making courtsmartial aPPr to.
'
jury courts would do a great injury to the sOep A
milittry courts unanimity was not desirable' e
ood
voted for the first and second, but if the el$::
altered as proposed—if it were frittered awaY's-,
certainly vote against it. He wished it lett tee IPe.o,
originally introduced, otherwise he must OPP2ecriae 111
Major BEAUCLERK opposed the clause. thee'
hers of courtsmartial were all snore or less urve aesiver:
fluence of the Horse Guards.—(No, no, cheer., that
by loud Noes.) He would repeat the assertion,
e of
coursmartial were indirectly under the inifitieuesderri(it
Horse Goat ds.—( No, no.) He would prose his de pop
(" It is impossible.") Allow him to explain._„,(AP,ljeg?
esk what—when he went first into the artnY- tor ,
—he asserts d that when first he went into the 3,f eceirre'
was a great difference between the decision., d or,
martial and their decisions at present. tie glue'
witnessed with the deepest indignation pers°us ors'
their flesh was torn from their backs.--01(11 'roes
He asked if that were nut the fact? Was it I'l-ISirl'e", 4
'nett were not now flogged as they were then? 0001;6
first joined his regiment at Halifax, there was, tsit
from their back, or when his sleep was
morning when he was not dragged from his be,' -vissfl,
the men of his own regiment lashed till the fleshtorhe°
the cries of melt belonging to other regimen's' drefil°ll;
was that the case now ? No. Where one litis c,
were inflicted formerly, not one was inflicted o°':he
courts, however, were the same—the law Was tete
—and what, then, had produced the alteration in d',
sions of the courts? Orders from the Horse Gus:/e.sl'.
merly cruelty was thought praiseworthy—o° 'o-ftbeii
countenanced. But why? Because the humanitY ses,l
ple of England had increased, and the people vie- IP(Qc)
it. He remembered the exertions of the wortbY,og;
opposite to den once the hateful practice of fl';„gbgiblid °Ol,l/
those exertions had led to issuin orders which 10/4
dified the decisions of courtsmartial, when t'it"
the same and the offence was the same. lie -Jeep 1)(f
the same dung heel taken place in the navy. "be 'Ph"
would not give power to men who were wider t
cure of the Hot se Gu srds. It would tend t°tre,
despotism, and bring ruin on the country.---(Vde4be ff
He denied that the effect of the Bill tv°u—o, d °f ita
what was anticipated,andcontended,that
01 • 00'
eilit sting, it would impede the iodministreto y
in Ireland. It might indeed produce a "tuerraartiee.lol
but it could only be temporary, and of short d-i ,be
Lord HOTHANI referred to the aseertion e,b /P,v,
under `; te""
speaker, that courtsmartial were always
ence of the Horse Guards, and left it to the Ildhu
ride whether what the Hon. Member advaneed,-:ed sibs'o4
established his position.—(Cheers.) He coroP' s,tr
the subject of military flogging bad been isueriey n 0 ft,
unfairly introduced into the discussion, esPeel,l, 01'0/
17th clause of the Bill expiessly prOliibiledi:njeetit' i$
martial from inflicting that species of punt-teod)cf°
did not mean to complain that Ministers 1,137, Dill' p'
right to snake very recent alterations in t"eftight
riot dis ge
smd
nature of which had been stated by tbe t the
nourable Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) ; but, ah- Plej-oir
time, he did not think that they would Make,t: ilt`Vir
at ail more palatable to its opponents, while
haps marenially impair its efficiency by render'nl'se,et,
fluence of the military tribunals less powerff6
ct,''e:riiel
extensive. It now appeared that a number 0' to"
rank were to be sent over to Ireland to aid iu the
cf
offenders, but it hail not been stated in sill'Ltre•ide'do
were to aid those trials—whether they were tO Poi ee-et
tentn,d i
t„.orfytthreibruuntaillsi
whether they were to form the whole bodY eiceit-411'd
Upon this point, therefore, further informatino bade
wy.ereAntotaliin
sary before tne House could decide upon the I°ool
omsome) objectionablecourtmartij
itted in the Bill. The constitutions of the tv,:ttoor'lol
in several respec,s different from that of a c°tion, :61fletr
and it was a point not unworthy conside,r3, 00 'riff
effect in ght be produced upon soldiers by tu ojoet'i
tution, which applied a different mode of ""-tblet d
the law to one class of the King's sut•jects tf tor
efyiteentassolus er :shin()
au
rgib,et, 1.,11:i.b;eht,040
was applied to another. He (Lord HothauY of 0401'
effect of so wide a distinction upon the Inin"!„/ St d,Os
tary, and he begged to know from the Secre,opo
whether it was intended to introduce a c° ror ? dfr
alteration in the Mutiny Bill in fsvour of the :I; tolibl
An HON. AIEMBITH. 'ose with some warn' t 00,1
statel'el:tild
tradict, distinctly as possible, the
Gallant Member for Surrey, our
that c otsto4cl bebsd
e
under the influence of the Horse Guerde• eoee
witnessed any scenes of the kind, he would it
..sede'
flung his Commission in the face of the Ci°M ppt
Chief. be ~d to

allude lla:i
the
Bill
Mr.
gtahl
el NeVr
soldieryAß B U
shouldß T
be
converted
Major
individual cases,
atex plelaasinteedo,hetbwast,
udders`
lion, for he thought the
di .
iekreno
edneg
didia.
in
and vulgarjuNoble
op
of the trial of a Isia-
h e to be tried by LI
nrLesioi.surtd,iini had said that c"urtial '
strong
fetive) rue:be were A
enlightenedthe
e case,tribunals
which than
e tdheen; mu:it:lb. ez:urtCl'it:essf:i
ausqeufuels.tionHhee bdwycee:ffa'aeshunintsdtPaf Enoepaeetri
peasant
—lll
t(aullifi re' Isl3lt 'rt. it.e,:). ::.ar-e. so c':°::•,°-
o't
not mean to say thaolt.fncPoeurirts;:rftaihatil isvia°oswil'idisr;::::
the majority of cases, decide justly; hut it it'Ss.,,,,ot ,d
bhegadgepduttototatkhee
cient that a sentence should be just.—the peoPle 5 eo'f
lieve it to he so; and if they (lid not, there WO 001301:0
that confidence which mainly rendered 1114 eneaSl
former night, and to which it was important to °..,ti:,'
answer before the Committee came to a decisiort.lvoltre
clause, viz., whether the sentences of courternaerit!var sit,'
be sent back for revision ? When political fe
_Lae ii:jd
excited, and the passion& of men heated, it was
sorrow
ever ever necessary that persons accused should be
~.f it
with every species of protection, and Thomasfinel.l ;:ji,
Iv
established by the celebarated case of Oa 14 0,
Lord DARLINGTON had been raistaroiPp
lion. Gentleman who had just spoken. All be oh
that because Juries were required to be unanilli ;f
4 01
iNhiosboli:irrity of rr 0
therefore courtsmartial ought to be so. 0:14n)
Major HANDLEY was opposed to the 'eau"
(Altbor. )00,