The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-28 00:00:00

passed last night and the present fully showed it. This sort of
meld dramatic malignity—this sort of Sadler's Wells sarcasm.
which was so easily put on—this waving of the hand and point-
ing with the finger—this looking daggers but using none—
was, to say the least of it, exceedingly improper.—(Laughter
and cheers.) He should say the proper remedy for suchmatter as that now complained of—the best course for 1-'ion.
Members to pursue on any question was—not to say an ything
that was contrary to gentlemanly courtesy, or that could be
fairly looked upon as offensive—( Cheers).
Mr. O'CONNELL would not have said one wr,rd had the
memory of the Hon. Gentleman not been inaccu'aite and the
public might possibly supply with imagination the deficiencies
.sryy. em of election committees was one of corrup-
tionst Ile had been censured in consequence of
of his memory. He hod not been accused oT calumny. He
aidthatnd p
the
er ji
these observations, and the Speaker read him a lecture on the
subject. As soon as the Speaker had Concluded, he (Mr.
O'Connell) repeated the very words which he had made use of
--(Great laughter)—and the House had since confirmed the
truth of his remarks, for they abolished that Committee alto-
gether. He was very much obliged to the Hon. Gentleman
forvat
iaognas.in giving him an opportunity of reiterating those obser-
vations.
Major BERESFORD denied that he was guilty of corrup-
tion. It was the general feeling of the Committee that he was
unjustly, unfairly, and acrimoniously attacked.
Mr. B. ESCOTT said that he was perfectly justified in
the observations he bad made in the absence of the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough.
Lord JOHN MANNERS said that, so far as he knew, the
observations which had been made respecting Mr. Ashworth
were by no means correct. He could hear testimony to the
admirable manner in which that gentleman had discharged the
obligations which his position imposed upon him. No one was
more fully impressed than he was with the great responsibility
which attached to him as one of the greatest cotton manufac-
turers in the empire, and no one was more fully alive to the
fulfilment of the duties of his situation.
Mr. FIELDEN ( who was totally inaudible in the gallery
for some time) said (as we understood), that the manufacturers
had applied to the Poor-law Commissioners to send down to
the manufacturing, from the agricultural districts, a number of
labourers for the purpose of equalising the price of labour and
that they (the Poor-law Commissioners) had dune so, and sent
down 10,000 to the manufacturing districts. If they looked to
the Commission of Inquiry into these districts, they would
find that the statement made by the Hon. Member for Knares-
borough had not been incorrect.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said he would not have risen to
take part in this discussion had it not been for what had fallen
from the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury. That Hon. Gentle-
man recalled to the recollection of the House what had taken
place, he believed, about three years since, in the course of a
debate that took place at that time, when he (Sir R. Peel)
put an erroneous construction upon an expression used by the
Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Member for Stockport.—( Hear,
hear.) That Hon. Gentleman having explained his expres-
sions, it was his (Sir R. Peel's) intention at that time that the
explanation which he made to the Hon. Member in reply should
relieve him from the imputation which he then put upon him.
—(Hear, hear.) If any one was present at that time he would
recollect that he made a complete disavowal of his expressions,
and he would also recollect that he said that if that explanation
was not considered to be sufficient, he would take the earliest
opportunity of gielng an ample apology.—( Hear, hear.) Those
were his (Sir R. Peel's) intentions, and he thought that a re-
ference to the record of the day would show that such must
have been his intentions, and he thought that the Hon.
Member for Shrewsbury, after the lapse of three years, should
not have revived that subject. His (Sir R. Peel's) intention
was entirely to withdraw the expressions which he had made
under an erroneous view.
Mr. R. COBDEN—I feel happy, Sir, at having an oppor-
tunity of remarking upon what has fallen from the Right Hon.
Baronet. I am sorry to say. that at the time to which he
alluded I thought, and I believe the country also thought, that
the Right Hon. Gentleman did not make that disavowal which
was due to me. Still, Sir, the matter is altogether so extra-
ordinary, and as the words which were uttered by me appeared,
in the opinion of the greater part of the Hon. Gentlemen on
that side of the House to bear the interpretation put upon
them by the Right Hon. Baronet, I think I may be excused
for occupying the attention of the House. I will take the
present disavowal as an ample disavowal by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, and as entirely satisfactory.—( Cheers. ) Sir, I
am very glad that he has made that complete disavowal, and I
think it will be as pleasant to his feelings as it is to mine to
have had this opportunity of expressing my regret, that while
the remembrance of what has passed in this House was rank-
ling in my own mind, I have alluded in public to the Right
Hon. Gentleman in terms which I regret after this explana-
tion.—( Cheers.) I sincerely hope that both what he has
said and what I have said may be completely obliterated, so
that no one may be justified in hereafter alluding to it.
Mr. HUTT said that, on Tuesday next, he had a motion
coming under the consideration of the House, and as he had no
wi,h to retard in the smallest degree the progress of the present
most important and protracted debate, he wished to be in.
formed by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Govern.
ment whether it was his wish that the motion should be post-
poned?
Sir R. PEEL was understood to Fisk the Hon. Member to
postpone his motion for the present. If the Hon. Member
would do so it would be a convenience to the Government,
and expedite the dispatch of public business.
Mr. HUTT would readily consent to the request of the Right
Hon. Baronet, and trusted his example would be followed by
other Hon. Gentlemen who had motions on the paper.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN said that, as it was the wish
and understanding on both sides of the House that the debate
should close that evening, he wished to ask the Right Hon.
Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury how he proposed to
arrange the public business for next week ? The Right Hon.
Baronet had a motion on the paper for Monday relative to the
Indian army, and he presumed that subject would occupy the
House the whole of Monday night.
Sir ROBERT PEEL (who spoke in so low a tone of voice
as to be perfecty inaudible in the gallery), was understood to
impress upon the House that he could not have done otherwise
than take the earliest opportunity of asking the House to
award its thanks to the commanders and men of the British
Indian army, who had lately so distinguished themselves in de-
fending the rights of this country. He did not, however, anti-
cipate that this subject would occupy the attention of the
House very long, and so soon as it was disposed of he should
proceed to move his resolutions in Committee, and on the
following day he should propose to bring forward another
branch of his measure. He was sure the House would see the
necessity of their getting through the measure as speedily as
possible, as delays only proved detrimental to nearly every in-
terest in the country.
It was then agreed that the House at its rising should ad-
journ till Monday.
PUBLIC WORi:S (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of Sir J, G I,e.HANI, this Bill was read a
third time and passed.
Sir R. PEEL, in pursuance of a notice he had already given,
moved that all petitions relating to the timber duties be printed.
After a few words from Mr. LIDDELL, the motion was put
and carried.

THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
On the order of the day for going into Committee on the
Customs' and Corn Importation Acts being read,
Mr. G. BANK ES rose and said, that he in one respect re-
gretted the delay that had taker, place in resuming this ad-
journed debate, because he concurred in the general wish which
had been expressed that this debate should come to a conclu-
sion that evening, and, as far 10 he was concerned, he would not
occasion much delay. He would endeavour to follow at a dis-
tance the speech of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, but
he would not imitate him in point of that duration
which occupied so large a portion of the time of the
House last night. He did not regret that on this occasion a
measure had been forwarded previously to resuming this de-
bate, he meant the measure which made some provisions for
Ireland, to meet an emergency that had arisen in that country.
It was to such measures that they might look in order to meat
the emergency. He was glad to find that it was now under-
stood that they were not discussing an Irish question, but the
great measure, which has been so strangely forced upon the
attention of the House. He now understood that the question
was not mixed up with the supposed deficiency of food in Ire-
land, and lie was happy to perceive that they might now
calmly and fully consider the question ; and if this measure
should receive the sanction of this House, it would be without
any of those disadvantages which would necessarily belong to
the passing a permanent measure to meet a temporary
emergency. He recollected that in the year 1822 the dis-
tress was then greater than anything which had been
stated to exist at this period ; and when he recollected that at
ttin
t ahh
iacstt
ieotoni
umnoetf r
yct h,o ererhn wcwoeausol
ud
lt
dhbeyi
it
g possiblyarneay tem s te agnbl use t
rose ufmpeepoiolrysne tdhe thatve epr rke
asnneonwi tnntdri
s-
tress in Ireland? Ile did not wish to detain the Right Hon.
Baronet, who he saw was about to leave the House, and he would,
therefore, postpone the further observations he had to make
upon the state of Ireland for the purpose of addressing his re-
marks to that part of the transaction which had had such weight
upon his own mind, and upon the minds of others, both in and
out of this House, and which materially affects the singular
crisis into which we have been brought by the conduct of the
Right Hon. Baronet, and which had been so unusual, unpre-
cedented, and, he had almost said, unconstitutional. In his
opinion it appeared rather strange that the Right Hon. Baronet
should have adopted such a course as this; for he found that
upon this occasion the Right Hon. Baronet bad exercised a
power and privilege, as Prime Minister of this country, which
it was most unusual to do, in order to influence a majority of the
Cabinet to vote with him on this measure. The Right Hon.
Baronet was not then a member of the administration,
for he had resigned his place as Prime Minister, and, there-
fore, he acted only as a private individual and as a private
individual, and not as a Minister of the Crown he had exercised
his influence with her Majesty in the formation of a new
Cabinet. New he (Mr. Bankes) was not aware of such an
example being set by any Minister of the Crown upon any
former occasion ; and, therefore, though he dare not say that
such was an unconstitutional course, it certainly had no prece-
dent. When the Right Hon. Baronet made his first speech
in this House this session upon this subject, he made no
allusion to this interview with her Majesty. Upon that occa-
sion the Noble Lord must have had the opportunity of reading
the letter placed in his hands by his Sovereign. He found
that the Right Hcia. Baronet had promised his support to
whatever Ministry should take office to carry out the great
changes which he had contemplated in the laws of the country.
Now, when the Right Hon. Baronet proposed such a course
it must be looked upon as a great change indeed—as a great
sacrifice of public principle. Had the Right Hon. Gentleman
allowed the sense of the country to be taken upon so great a
question, then, indeed, if the people were in favour of the pro-
posed change, no one could oppose the measure; but
this opportunity had not been afforded them, and
they bad a right to complain.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Indeed the change of principles on the part of the Right Hon.
Baronet was looked upon by the country with a very jealous
eye ; it was not such a condition as could be looked at in any
other light. When the coalition between Lord North, Mr.
Fox, and Mr. Burke, took place, it could not be said to have
been for the purpose of seeking the spoils of office ; those men
were above such a suspicion. The course pursued by the
Ministers entitled them, as the representatives of large con-
stituencies, to call on them not to violate the pledges which they
had given to the people, or to the constitution under which they
lived. At any rate, if they were determined to proceed with
at ey
mh
eand t
aptr,odoaoffuonrdde
the hpeeocpalelleadnonoptphoermtuntoitydiosi
atholevet the measure
P
sitting in judgment on their measures. He referred to the
latter of Lord John Russell to the electors of the city of
London in December, in which he stated that great public
questions ought always to be decided by the unequivocal
the public.—(Hear,
expressions ofhear.) He was, therefore,
at a loss now to understand why that Noble
Lord did not carry out the principles he had enunciated, and
call on the Government to appeal to the people. ( Hear.)
On a former occasion the Noble Lord stated that " free-trade
opinions were far from being predominant in this country."
Ile gated he had altered his opinions since that period, and
that free-trade principles were now generally entertained.
But he (Mr. Bankes) denied that they were. Let_ them look
to the opinion& of the countryi
as expressedn th
tians. Let them look to the result of the late Westminster
election. Where was the Lord of the Admiralty, who formerly
rsoresented that city ? (Sir Robert Peel, who sat a short
distance from the Hon. Member, here made some remark
which did not reach the gallery-) Well, who
should
dd decidede
who
between those controverted opinions
vernment to undergo that ordeal, as the response
time would be
-e
unequivocally against them. He remembered
with having the
no
when
many Members of that House were twittedde
cide
them? The country would decide. Bat he defied the lo e;d
constituents, and were told that they represented the mcnev in
their breichte-pocket hatred of their cerutituenth Th.

Noble 'lord the Member for Yorkshire (Lord Morpeth) re-
Pres'. nted his 5/. note, and the Member for Stockport said that
5. . note was worth 5,0001., and he was right, because it gave
nim a power which he had not possessed before If the Hon.
Gentleman talked of delegates, he begged to ask whose dele-
gate was he ? He was not likely to undervalue the power of
that League of which so much notice had been taken, when he
saw to what a position its influence and activity had reduced
a great party, and in what a condition the leader of that party
stood in regard to the country. He saw that the one wan
annihilated, and the other dependent. Then again, if he turned
to the elections, he would ask them to show him the place where
a free English election had been held, and he would show them
the place where a protectionist had been returned. What then
was the use of the 2,000 rotes of which the Noble Lord opposite
had made such a magnificent boast? He would venture to as-
sert, that although the constitution of this country was at pre-
sent in abeyance, that the people would hereafter arise to vindi-
cate its integrity, and give their verdict in its favour. Let them
take the last and most striking instance—the case of the Noble
Lord the Chief Secretary for Ireland. That Noble Lord had
gone down to the county of Nottingham with the
full support of the Government, of which he was a
member and an ornament. He had everything in his
favour—he had character, ability, position, and support,
while he (Mr. Bankes) believed that his opponent had every
legal instrument in the county retained against him. He
would net say much about that—but what was the result?
That Noble Lord had gone down to the county with all the
support of the Ministry, and with a greater assurance of success
than Was entertained even for the success of the measure now
before the House. Ile had expressed himself confidently, and
no doubt had written up to his friends in London—and yet the
election turned against him. There was, however, one very
extraordinary circumstance about this election. It was sur-
prising that, although the opponent of the Noble Lord to whom
he had referred had been elected the day before yesterday, he
had not yet made his appearance in the House,
although a gentleman who had been elected only
yesterday had this night taken his seat. No doubt
with equal sincerity and equal confidence he wrote
up to his friends in London hat nothin could be moe certain
than their success. The (freeholders were everyr moment
sending in their adhesions, and the Peers do not dare to inter-
fere with the election.—( Hear, hear.) And sow, with these
examples before them, were they asking too much when it was
admitted that the fate of Ireland did not depend upon these
measures, and when it was conceded that there was no neces-
sity for haste, alarm, or anxiety ; were they, he would repeat
it again, asking too much from the Government to require
they should be permitted to have the opinion of the whole con-
stituency of the country expressed upon the measure.—( Hear,
hear.) Some members had resigned their seats upon this
question, others had retained them, and some had adopted a
middle course, and finally resigned. He considered that a
passage from Swift seemed peculiarly applicable to the latter
class—

" lie fitted the halter, ho traversed the cart,
And often took leave, but seemed loath to depart."

He would tell these Honourable Gentlemen in their seats that
the law was upon their side, hut honour seemed to be on the
other. The Hon. Gentleman having cited the opinion of Al-
gernon Sidney on the conduct of Members of Parliament, con-
tinued, by saying that the learned author proclaimed the
punishment of defaulting Members, who betrayed their trust,
to be scorn, infamy, and hatred, and the assurance of being
rejected by their constituents when next they sought the honour
of representing these —(Hear, hear.) However, the law was
one way, and honour was the other.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member for Wolverhampton, when he spoke last night, ex-
pressed his fear at seeing such a leader at the head of the Go-
vernment; and he (Mr. Bankes) should agree with him, parti-
cularly when he asserted that the present was a great and cri-
tical crisis, and one that strongly reminded him of the period of
the French Revolution between the years 1789 and 1791.
( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Bankes) thought he could find in the
pages of a learned author, who wrote most eloquently on that
period, a few statements that, in different language, would
illustrate his views much more happily than he could hope to
do himself. With that view he opened " Alison'e Modern
Europe," in which he found these words:—" The existing
cause, as a physician would say, of the revolution
was the spread of innovation, which, like a dread-
ful malady at that time overspread the earth and precipi-
tated all classes into a passion for changes of which they were
far from perceiving the effects, and the most ardent in the
cause were those whose fortunes were about to perish." He
found these words also, " The young nobles applauded without
suspecting that they themselves would be the first victims."
'There were then Lord Lincolns as well as now.—(Cheers.)
There were then as now, sons ranged against their fathers; and
in addition to public mischiefs the whole system of private
society was destroyed.—(Continued cheering.) The same
author thus wrote, giving a description of the Prime Minister
of that time, " his private character was unexceptionable ; he
was possessed of immense wealth; and he made a noble use of
it ; he was liberal without pride or prodigality, and he would
have been a perfect private citizen had it not been for a secret
vanity which made him sacrifice everything to public popularity,
and which brought on unheard-of calamities. Had Turgot
united to these great and good qualities an adequate knowledge
of human nature, he would have been a great and wi.e
Minister, hut unhappily he lacked that one great advantage,
and he therefore hurried on those dangerous measures. He
was entirely ignorant of human nature, and pursued his de-
signs without considering what effects they would produce."
In comparing these two characters, as thus described by the
historian, he found in them a wonderful resemblance to the
public present
feeling,
Prime
,Minister; n
vetist e r
charged; and,theignorant Right
thoHuognh.hßeamroingehtt be of
having intentionally not only avoided but contrived to prevent
a recurrence to the public voice at a period when he should
have been convinced of his error. It was through that Al-
Al-
gernon Sidney had laid down the law, as he had
read out of that book, but he did not contend
for septennial Parliaments, and there were many
now whose opinions were changed upon this particular
also.— ( Laughter.) Where great changes took place in the
mind of a public Minister, it was advisable that. her Majesty
should be advised (as he had no doubt Lord John Russell
had advised) to appeal to the people. But then it happened
that the compromise took place between the two great parties
to which he had already alluded. He would now recur to that
great incident, as it well deserved to be called—he meant the
letter which the Right Hon. Baronet had addressed to her
Majesty on the Bth of September last. At the very time
when that communication was passing between the
Right Hon. Baronet and the Queen, another one was passing
to her Majesty from Lord John Russell. The opinions of both
at this time must have been similar,t for it was impossible
at that time for any one to hold office that held other opinions
to these. And how long had the Noble Lord (John Russell)
held the office consequent on the retirement of Sir R. Peel? Only
a day and a half, and he retired from the attempt to form a
Ministry because he had not confidence in carrying out mea-
sures such as he, along with Sir Robert Peel. considered ne-
cessary for the welfare of the country.—( Hear, hear.) In
plain English, the real cause, which the Noble Lord had him-
self admitted, was this :—He found, if he accepted office, and
secured the support of the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel),
the latter would bring over with him hut few of his sup-
porters, while on the other hand, if the Right Hon. Baronet
continued in office, he would secure so much more support on
the Conservative side of the House to the proposed measures,
while the Noble Lord could guarantee all his supporters on the
Opposition side of the House. This was the real history of
the Noble Lot el giving up the attempt to form a Ministry.
But why did not the Noble Lord, or the Right Hon. Baronet,
appeal to the people, if they considered the country was with
them ? Their not doing so showed that the voice of the people
was against their proposed measures, and they were fearful of
appealing to it. He (Mr. Bankes) had been told that this
voice had been expressed in another way—that is,
by petitions presented to that House. On that point, what
had occurred that night respecting petitions to Parliament
would show what little weight was to be attached to them.
The Government had given no reason why the Members of
that House should not stand face to face with their consti-
tuents, where, if they made promises, they should take care
to keep them.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had
spoken against exaction of promises, but they should recollect
that the usage and custom of the country had been in favour of
candidates who sought to be returned to that House, making
a statement of their political views prior to the election. They
had a day of nomination for the express purpose of questions
being put to candidates, and for the purpose of enabling such
candidates to explain their political principles to the electors.
If Hon. Members are to become so careful and chary of their
opinions, he doubted if they would have so many supporters in
a future Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) He did not think voters
were induced to take Hon. Members according to their looks.—
( Hear and laughter.) They would still continue that incon-
venient practice of asking questions, and they would not only
expect to receive answers to those questions, but also the per-
formance of those promises. It had been stated that during the
canvass of Lord Lincoln, an Hon. Member waited upon him,
who was much interested in the affairs of Ireland, and he
stated that, as the result of his interview, he was
perfectly satisfied with the Noble Lord's opinions upon that
subject. Would Lord Lincoln depart from what he
had said to the Hon. Member who had waited upon
him; and if bound to the performance of his promise
to him, was he not also bound to the lowest man in the crowd?
And was not that poor man entitled to ask his epinion, and to
receive his answer from the candidate ? Was there any diffe-
rence in rank or station which enabled a person with impunity
to disregard his promises and engagements ? Was there any
thing to cause him to affect a feeling of contempt because these
promises had been made to a meaner class ?—( Hear, hear. )
Such doctrines would receive from the people of England their
merited censure. Boroughs which were renovated, as it was
called, at the passing of the Reform Bill, would not be thus
treated.—(Hear, hear.) They would insist that their repre•
sentatives, who had changed their opinions, should appeal again
to them to ascertain if they would be received with their altered
opinions. Why was he (Mr. Bankes) not allowed still
to represent the small borough which he represented
prior to the passing of the Reform Bill ? Was
he not to be returned according to his opinion?
If not, he considered that a great deal of time and unnecessary
trouble had been expended in passing what has been called the
Reform Bill. They had now the means of ascertaining the real
feelings of the people with respect to the present momentous ques-
tions. They should now see whether, in the people's opinion, the
measure was right and expedient. They ( the protectionists)
maintained that it would be far more injurious than beneficial,
and it was this conviction that had driven them to oppose the
Bill at this stage, and in so pertinacious a manner. For the
purpose of saving time, as well as for other reasonable pur-
poses, they had resolved en taking the division at this stage,
and, whatever might be the result, if they failed, they would
fail with the conviction of having honestly performed their
duty. The country regretted to see the union of men who
were so opposite in principle ; but whatever might be the re-
sult of the struggle here, he trusted that in another place a
way would be opened which would afford the people an oppor-
tunity of declaring their feelings. Year after year, during the
whole duration of this Parliament, the votes would show that
the Government, by immense majorities, would not sanction
such a measure as that now proposed. He could not for a mo-
ment suppose that the other House would refuse the exercise
of their prerogative, by causing an appeal to the people against
this most extraordinary and extravagant measure.
ESCOTT would give his vote in support of the measure,
with great confidence in the results of the future. He thought
that one of the principal features connected with the measure
had almost been lost sight of in the debate, and that feature
was--can such a measure as that now proposed be possibly
prevented ? If those Hon. Gentlemen who talked so much
about pleading the farmers' cause, who were so constant in
their defence of protection, and who proposed to be the far-
mers' friends, were to tell him the truth, and say that protec-
tion could be no longer maintained, they would then be acting
more consistently with their character of being the farmers'
friend. Another objection that had been raised during the
debate was—supposing the question to Ise right, and that it
was impossible to prevent its being carried out, the persons
who constitute the present Government were not those who
ought to carry it into effect. He (Mr. Estcott) believed
that the people of this country were comparatively little con-
cerned as to the particular individuals who might carry the
measure into effect. He would admit that those who had un-
dertaken to conduct the measure were exposed to the charge
of inconsistency, and he had not escaped from that charge. He
had been called upon by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough
to state why he did not tender the resignation of his seat, and
appeal to his constituent on his change of principle. He
would inform the Hon. Gentleman that not one single
contituents had intimated to him in the sliohest mariner
any wish for him to vacate his seat. A Noble Lord had also
said that he could not conceive how it was consistent with his (Mr.
Eseott's) personal honour to support the motion for going into
this question. He would tell the Noble Lord what his opinion
of the personal honour of a Member of Parliament was. It was

against his personal honour to tamper with his constituents. It
was his personal honour to give up his time day and night to
study the interests of his electors and of the country. And to
give a modern instance, supiesse a person came into
that House, who was comparatively ignorant
of the different questions of political economy.
It was his personal honour to make himself master of those ques-
tions, in order to be able to know how to give his vote with
judgement. It was also his duty to throw over board any
degree of character for personal consistency, in order to obtain
a much higl er degree of character, as au efficient servant of
the general interests of the people. That was his idea of the
personal honour of a Member of that House. It had been
stated by the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Dorsetshire,
that lie had considered it almost impossible for any Government
to have formed so strange and sweeping a measure of commercial
policy as that which was now proposed to be adopted.
From the year 184'2, when the Right Hon. Baronet at
head of the Treasu-y, and the late Vice-President of the
Board of Trade, made their speeches on the Corn Bill which
was introduced into the House, he (Mr. Escott) not only
anticipated some such measure as the present, but he told every
man who theught proper to ask his opinion, that some such
measure must be the inevitable consequence of the Bill that
was then introduced. There were some persons of distin-
guished station, to whom he was under some obligations for
many acts of condescension, who had done him the honour to
consult him on matters of public affairs. He told those indi-
viduals, distinctly and freely, that the total repeal of
taxes on imports would be necessary in consequence
of the principles which had been laid down
by the Right Hon. Baronet and the late Vice-President of the
Board of Trade. The occurrences since 1842 had only ren-
dered it more apparent that some such change as the present
must be introduced. Year after year, up to the present time,
they had heard debates on the corn-laws, but he had never
heard during the whole of that time one single argument
brought forward in defence of the principle of the corn-laws
from that bench. (The Hon. Gentleman then pointed to the
Ministerial bench, and was interrupted with cries of No, no.")
He had heard very clever speeches to avoid the question alto-
gether, but certainly had not heard the principle ad-
vocated. The Hon. Member for Somersetshire him-
self, without the aid of the Anti-Corn-law League, would
have upset any corn-law that might have been made.
His Hon. Friend the Member for Somersetshire had said, that
he never rose to speak of the corn-laws without the horror of
abundance before his eyes. Whatever was before him horrible
in form and aspect was sure to have a cornucopia in his hand.
But while his Hon. Friend had such a horror of plenty, he
could tell him that the people in his own county, in his own
immediate vicinity, were obliged to depend upon turnips for
their daily subsistence, and on the products which the mildness
of the season and the kindness of Providence had allowed to
come forth. It would not do to talk to him of speeches that.
had been spoken five years ago. He had never given
a vote in that House, but in favour of relaxing protective
duties.—( Hear, hear.) He had seen his Hon. Friend the
Member for Somersetshire present 110 petitions against the
corn-laws, and every one of those petitions stated that the
corn-laws and the tariff were the destruction of agriculture.
He told the farmers. that the very cern-law which last year
threatened their entire ruin, was this year the only thing that
would save them. Now, what must the farmers think ? They
were persons of as much intelligence as any of the middling
classes in this country, and could tell as well as most persons
what faith to put in the representations of others. And the
most honest way of acting would be at once to tell them
that the existing corn-laws will shortly exist no longer.
He would now come to the great question of all, which was—
" What is to become of the land?" Now, the principal argu-
ment which he had heard repeated over and over again—and it
was stated first in order by the Hon. Member for the Univer-
sity of Oxford, and not more strongly by any Hon. Member
since, but it had been refuted a great number of times during
the debate—that argument was this, that such a measure as this
should not be carried, for if it should be, it would ruin the in-
stitutions of the country. He (Mr. Escott) owned that he
was perfectly astonished on hearing that argument used by
Hon. Members ; for what were the institutions of the country
The Church ? The courts of law ? The Houses of Parlia-
ment? Did they mean to put the preservation of the institu-
tions of the country upon the maintenance of a restriction on
the importation of food in the time of scarcity, or of appre-
hended scarcity? Because, if they did, he wouldjtell them plainly
that never were the institutions in any free country ever
defended by such an argument, and never could they be de-
fended by such an argument. What did Pitt say about appre-
hension of scarcity? Did he get up and talk about protection,
and the danger of injuring the institutions of the country? No;
he endeavoured to abolish every vestige of protection. He
said that the first duty of a Minister of the Crown was to take
care that the people should be fed.—( Cheers.) He (Mr.
Escott) should like to know whether the Hon. Member for the
University of Oxford would like to close the ports against the
importation of food ?—( Cheers.) He (Mr. Escott) did not see
the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury in his place, and he regretted
that he was not, because he spoke very eloquently on that
point. He said that the carrying of this measure would ruin
the valuable institutions of the country, and he said that the
party that had proposed this measure had ne right to do any
such thing. He ( Mr. Escott) remembered that Hon. Member
delivered a very able lecture in that House some time ago
on the political history of the country, and he remembered him
saying in very vigorous language to the Noble Lord( J. Russell)
and the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, who constituted the
great Whig party, " You Whigs have no right to claim free
trade, whatever else may be your merits; it was Pitt that pro-
pagated the great doctrine ofi free trade." Pitt, the great Tory
Minister, he said, had done that. And yet the Hon. Member
for Shrewsbury had said to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of the Government, "You are a traitor to your party,.for espous-
ing principles of this kind, whatever be the necessities of the
country, because your party should necessarily keep up a re-
strictive policy." He would not detain the House much longer
upon this subject. He for his own part thought that
the institutions of the country could not be injured by any thing
so much as the restriotion of the supply of the people's
food in times of scarcity. Honourable Gentlemen had said
that the present scarcity, or the apprehension of that scarcity,
had been greatly exaggerated. It was exaggerated, or it was
not. Now, the Right Honourable Gentleman the Recorder
of Dublin and the Member for the University of Dublin went
so far as to say that in the greater number of the counties in
Ireland, there was actually no necessity at all—that there was
an average supply of potatoes at the present time. Now, on
inquiry, he found persons coming from Ireland who stated to
him—he would say it with every respect for the statements of
the Right Hon. Gentleman—that there was no foundation
whatever in the Right Honourable Gentleman's statements.
The question then came to this—which was to be believed ?
Was he to believe the Right Hon. Gentleman the Recoeder
for Dublin, or was he to believe the papers that were on the
table of the House, and which were the accounts of
Roman Catholic clergymen and clergymen of the Esta-
blished Church, and of all other excellent persons who were
sending to this country from dal to day accounts of the dread
of the scarcity that was coming upon them in a very short
space of time.—( Hear, hear.) Was it then false that they
went to the potato-pits and found them one mass of rottenness?
He certainly would confess, that with all the respect due to the
statements of the Right Honourable Gentleman, he was
prepared to believe the statements of such a numerous body
rather than that of the Right Hon. Gentleman, who he believed
was misinformed on the matter. But Hen. Members came to
that House for the purpose of stating the results of their own
experience. He would state what was going on in certain
parts of England where he resided. The people there found
that at least one-half of the potato crop had been destroyed,
and the potato, he was sorry to say, was the greater portion of
the subsistence of the people. The wheat crop was also very
deficient in that district, and it was very much to be feared that
the crops of the next summer would be deficient.—(Hear,
hear.) He would then ask them whether in order to pre-
serve the institutions of the country it was necessary to keep
up a restriction on the importation of food, when in Ireland
perhaps more than one-fourth, and when in England at least
one-fourth of the food of the people was destroyed ?
His Hon. Friend the Member for the University of Oxford
had used certain expressions 'in his speech which he (Mr.
Escott) wished he had not heard. He said, "Do not disturb the
peaceable and prosperous state of things." (Protectionist
cheers.) Quieta non movere.—( Hear, hear.) He believed
in his conscience that within three short months from this
time, around his own dwelling, the quiet which the Hon.
Member would not disturb would be a cry from the grave
complaining of the deficiency of the food of the people, and he
believed that in two-thirds of Ireland there would be a similar
cry. What did thejl-lon. Member mean by saying Quieta non
movere? Did he mean to say that in order to support the
• institutions of the country it was necessary to restrict
• the food of the people? If he (Mr. Escott) would look back into
past times he would find that with the present corn-laws we
have had distress even in the agricultural districts ; and if he
would go further back he would find that even with the former
corn-law, we have had the moat severe agricultural distress.
And yet, this was the state of things that Hon. Gentlemen
would protect. What he wanted to know was, whether in
maintaining the corn-laws Hon. Gentlemen wished to keep the
price of corn high or not ? If they did not mean to raise the
price of corn, how was protection good for agri-
culturists. If they mean to raise the price of corn, then
they wished to keep the food of the people dear and scarce.
Last session he took the liberty of making a motion, which had
been alluded to by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
Government three times since the commencement of the pre •
sent debate, and that motion related to the introduction of
maize duty free. At that time he did think the introduction
of maize would be very beneficial to the agriculturists, as
well as the country at large, for he thought that it would be
a means of accelerating the repeal of the corn-laws,
as, indeed, that object had, in this instance, been accelerated
by the failure of the potato and wheat crops. He did not
anticipate that failure ; but he believed that the introduction
of maize, duty free, would enable farmers to feed their stock
without having recourse to the food of the people. But he
never for one moment imagined that the importation of maize
alone would make up for the deficiency of a bad harvest ; all
the object he had in view in making that motion was the ac-
celeration of the repeal of the corn-laws. If the farmers had
maize they would he enabled to feed more catfle, and we
should consequently have more butcher's meat At the
time that he gave notice of his motion, he made
inquiries from several farmers and cattle dealers, who
traversed a district of country twenty miles long and fifteen
wide, comprising all kinds of land and all species of rural occu-.
pation. He asked one of the farmers of that district, whether
he did not think that in the course of last winter he would have
saved a great deal of money had he been able to purchase
maize duty free; and his reply was, that he certainly would,
and that one out of every twenty of his cattle died from sheer
starvation. Now it so happened that in that very district an
enterprising man lived, who had an immense quantity of maize,
which he had imported from the United States, but which, in
consequence of the high duty upon it no one could purchase it;
so that the present system of protection, instead of being bene-
cial, was injurious to the farmers.—( dear. ) It was said that
this measure would ruin the small farmers. Now he lived in a
county abounding with small farmers, and he was on intimate
terms with many of them, and he was informed by them that
they would be much benefited if they could purchase maize
and other such articles free of duty. One of those small farmers
had told him that he had lost at least 10/. ix the shape of duty
paid on maize. He (Mr. Escott) did not believe that the pass-
ing of this measure would cause so much ruin, or, on the other
hand, so much happiness to this country, as appeared to be
anticipated. Did Honourable Gentlemen who had spoken
think that they could govern the country with the
Duke of Richmond as their leader ? He believed that even
the Duke of Buckingham would fill the office of Prime Mi-
nister better. The Duke of Richmond had an affection for
two sayings—one was his prophecy about wool, which they all
knew to be entirely fallacious ; and the other was his saying to
the effect, that in Sussex they did not grow glass, but timber.
He did not believe that the country could be governed by
a Government of which that Noble Duke was a member.
They wished to find some leader in whom they could repose,
and who would stand between them and their opponents, and
lead them to a successful victory. About five years ago they
found such a man ; and now, when he refuses to lead them to
battle against the interests of the people, they were determined
to dismiss him from his command.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER—No, no.
Mr. B. ESCOTT—The Hon. Member for Lincolnshire
dissents from that. He (Mr. Escott) however believed that
it was not the interest of the leader of a great party to lead
that party against the people. They (the protectionists) had
had such a leader and they had now disoarded him. Now he
supposed that they meant to do the battle of protection on
their own acconnt,—(“ Hear, hear," and cheers from the
Protectionists.) He hoped, in order to avoid deceiving the
farmer, that they would at once tell him what they thought
would be the probable issue of this struggle, and whether it
would end in victory or delvat.—(Hear, heir.) If they

°
thought—as he thought they must—that the issue eld
1,,e
defeat, had they not better give up the contest at 0e.70,
submit to the fate which they could not avoid-7(oes
hear," and " No, no" )—when they consider that till
Top
are already in great want—(" No, no," from Met,rhiteel
the protectionists.) The Hon. Member for Somerset
that the people are not in want.—(Hear, bear.) 11..etatedt
the Hon. Member had been in the House when hrioiet
condition of the people in the county of which he (Le retg°
was Member. If the Hon. Member would read toatue
which hal been laid on the table of the g esset!
would tell him whether the people were es "_j
not. He said, " they were not in want." wet",
first person he had heard who had the go Woe,
to deny that tilers was any want ?—(Hear, bear.)
wire
like to know whether he thought that—in the case or
his (Mr. Miles's) county, where the people are bepiteelo eil
subscription, where peas and pulse are sent tie for herir.t4
alive—that was an indication of prosperity.— ( Ifelteeliev
Mr. MILES did not know that such a state ext
egi
paMr. rish in his county.
B. ESCOTT—The Hon. Member says he j
e-00°
know it. He (Mr. Escort ) was aware of that; Its freu
orb°,
he did not—if he did, he would not have expresSea...)
horror of the comin mountain of corn.—(Heart 11,11:toisl!"
would not have madeg such a speech as he did a few floe
had he been aware of those facts ; he was possessedee ri)
too intelligent, and too generous a mind.—(Hear,
Mr. MILES-was not aware that he had ever entref ore,
feeling of horror upen the subject of the importation
beer 10Pi
Mr. H. ESCOTT had never heard the Hon. 1",,6%, bell''
a speech without it. It was his staple article.—(Defl; eel;
He alway dreaded the overflow of foreign corn;
tbep
ways dolorous upon the subject, and he had b Iffuoi
the position which they now occupied, more than lie
Hon. Member connected with that House, or even;a, 010
League, by greasing the wheels of the cart ; tee, tle.
(Mr. Miles) would not allow the grease to be rb-e ten,
he was assured by the Government that tar should (Pt;
with the grease, to prevent its being sold for buttere;o,o
hear.) He (Mr. Escett) believed that no eewlen re, l!e
more anxious for the 'uccess of the present Inels,uooo°
thought it conducive to the interests of the people,'
the Hon. Member for Somersetshire. the roses
Captain GLADSTONE should briefly state the e
which induced him to give his vote in-favour of .rieteclio!'
Member for Somersetshire's amendment. He ec'eniltiquel'e
painful duty to oppose the Government on the ereese"eie bel,o
but he trusted that, upon a future occasion, he s"e bees 4,t
to afford him his wonted support. He would We piot":0
reedy to support Ministers on the present melloure'rioeirty
those measu-e had been proposed upon the same :tiood:0
they had previously acted—namely, a gradual redu
notertr,l
duty on raw materials. He considered that vibe" (1010
to agriculture was remeved,all protection must ceo:ei, fse;
The Anti-Corn-law League seemed aware of tn;tieoglt
it was for this reason they attacked the corn clu,eore.eol
they knew that they would then have an easy vle',e'et.ool tP
ether interests,—(" Hear, hear," from the flopeigife
It had beeen said, however, that they were onlY ecessit)ei
the tariff of 1842. If so, where then was the ntfist ei
the declaration on the part of the Government thaws/04e'
ehenged their opinion.—( Protectionist cheers.) It eieesl"cee
failure of the potato crop alone which gave rise to til
Mes
esti',
iee
The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her ai last' v,
theof
verment had admitted that his experience of lief., ei
years hid tend, d to impress upon his mini the Tel 0000
etill greater reduction. He (Captain Gladetonut be 0/
held ultra views on the subject of protection, b,,etectilill
confess that he was an advocate of a moderate P".otiottfiee,
( Hear, hear.) The different interests of this e,
been protected. Under this protection the CO' triof rto
rished ; and the most able writers on the sulileerotee!V
economy bad given it as their opinion that P geoid:l!
agri-ultiire should not be suddenly withdrawn- he Frio,
think that the present measure accorded witht it s foro
laid down by those writers. He did not think eerr
reduction to protection. The cotton manufaet peer,.
country had grown up to their present Penuratolfsol
under a system of protection against the cotton rust thelrie/
of India.—(Hear, hear.) The Gallant Monb sonde}
ferred to the speech of the Hon. Member for hi, tirrri
( Mr. Hudson.) He (Mr. Hudson) had stated in 0010
ty
that the removal of protection to agriculture b Slice!"
affect the large landed proprietors 8° tflueetel'hiete?
tenant farmers, and that this question was fo',
a tenant-farmer question. The occupiers of enol,".oitelseg
no doubt, under the influence of competition, tuvriele
to exist. Such were the opinions of the Hon e)
ber for Sunderland. Now, he (Captain Gloclltllll rye'
that four-fifths of the farmers of England were otn If, 00
and in Ireland there was a much larger proportion' 0014
the Noble Member should be ;correct in big bete ?
of the effects of the abolishment of protection, vieteri,l
result would it produce upon this class?—(Hear' cli't tt
had made many inquiries upon the subject of t oreitell
Ireland, and he should be glad if the present tneselets 001.,
be, likely to afford them any relief. The Hon' ioioo
Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers) had made an eu"teroOret
effect that if the ports were immediately to be
..,rot Ire
there was no corn to come in. Of of
quence, then, could it be to the poor eer,lPreol;
to open the ports if there was nn eh° eft
would not in the least alleviate their we, Jet
Previous to 1842 trade was in a very depressed shireel
then they have had not alone good, but abundsnt sorest
the great revival of trade in the United States tee,'
opinion the prosperity of the country, and net eee°,,el
which bad taken place in the commercial polio! ittves
—( Cheers.) There was another important eireurotel,
which was not, he believed, noticed during the io Pa, eta
that question; it was the abundant supply of cotton, Poe
and the low price of that article here.
if it could be proved that the prosperous state 0, toe"
was owing to the commercial changes which had sod 4 7
that he (Mr. Gladstone) considered was na ege (Nit?
why they should sweep away altogether t"
raw material—it was no proof, because litiootevl
had taken place with good effect, that a total althea thlee",
have a similar tendency.—( Cheers.) He considerheerefie
measure was to be proposed by any Minister of ioto,,erjse'fi
Government, it should not be by one who cerneeree treed',
protectionist principles, and if they were to have
the measure be proposed by the party who the let
Cheers from protectionists.) It was said •,d it
to be a settlement of the question, but how cou're
petted that it would be a settlement when they we cidere'iti:le'
Parliament would be:shoi tly dissolved; and he ccdl;lsll7,`",
there was much more danger he setting one '''et 4'6
another than there would be if the measure 01°f
But he feared it would have another effect, Zoe,
lasting nature ; it would shake the CoP sore'
people would have in public men.—(l.-°bet jiri
from the protectionists.) He might be wrong in tee
but ho thought that if there was any mind amongNooo
tural classes, it would have that effect ; and if the.
to the result of the elections in agricultural dist.riclei,ooolo
appear that such a feeling was entertained. Tiers
tleman concluded by thanking the House for them' icegyeir
fair manner in which they had listened to him, an •ri; be,i"
he their wish to go into Committee on the quest';
ore .
dered it important that the public should know elobjeot•ltY,
Bible what was to be their fate on that important s.,iorotc"
Mr. COBDEN (who was loudly cheered on ri sate
and et 03
assure the House that it is impossible for me u 00 egg
enenstances to speak as I should wish, and of, jel
quence detain the House for any great lenPresePeet
(Cheers.) I have not been able to attend to the Pa or it, ford
bat I have had the merit of reading every o°l. te AO ter,
though I have had occasion to complain on Tell GO"
occasions of the way in which Honourable eiScoe
spoke on every subject but the one undehrioe te "°,„{
eanch as I have had to complain, I do etc'. elerer_ei
the present occasion every person went la 10,,01
extraneous matter than I had ever known before' r eee,h"e lei
to me, that the question was not the abrogsti° °ter, wefieles
of the corn-laws, but the conduct of the Alin'ireuo"ool:o
Lord of the Treasury. Now, Sir, there MAY bee, et)
I will not say but there are just grounds, for t'fortr,.,6l
Gentlemen opposite to complain of the Ministry t ,10100,0
they have pursued ; but, Sir, the country willin„eiete°l
with them, for, on former occasions, they the trreeies, loot
did everything in their power to evade the queteeijebrY,e
this measure was introduced by the Whigs ten eitee'seeoel
ownas leader.
introduced
you opposed the measure then that is now auf- ech et
w
B But,
into the
mus tHsoauys,e wfihrsetn,
syt het
irceowrreni 01.);(eltit,fi
Aids of vituperation as we are now, and e ebeee fel
sympathise with you. If Hon. Gentlemen if "ref
that their present leader contemplates, nut (in °tles",
the corn-laws, but going much further (and to 7;1)
ought), I beg to assure them that they are err
effectual means of arming the Minister with PO,OO io
for the more you attack him, the more theevel,loo,se
sympathise with him out of doors.—(Cheers.) eeoll°ool,l
making the present Prime Minister the most P:leelleoltt,,e,
the country, and should he go down into awl eed tee :10
turing districts the Right Hon. Baronets ruooet, esreit
one continued triumph. The Right Hon• Bar" sore, tof
cretary for Home Affairs, in advocating this Wielieeenoo,l
won much for himself on this occasion; the Ins0,0el!t•lio hid
bution which he has given in his able statement' oe orfPotO
in the martyrdom in which you are inflicting the 00001
made him so popular, that in any of the towns ld rece'oe oft
England, say Manchester or Liverpool, be wol"...e„(Cliere
respect and honour than the 0
greatest merchant' 41°0°4
laughter.) Ido not think the Hon. Gentlelne° se!' t°l,o
Posed to this measure are pursuing:a wile 11; seeystelliit
That is the first great fact that I will allege; t iegr halo
to which I will call your attention is one of neoride tterdeie
If I understand your position rightly, you euen:free Jeglttice
House is the proper place where the question a' the jul 0
to be decided, without knowing what is .0 tbsoftt,f,,,
of the country. I tell you, if you believe to go°,:jt
of such principles, you are unworthy, of the aiw tips oe'
into ter
on any such grounds. Why, when I caMe, bete, ,tott
in 1841, I met you with a majority of 91. but :iesg,lel
the corn-law should be only changed ? flot'e,d ogg
would never cease my exertions until I abroge t tits
stel3-' ,Or Ithe
you should also, if you are honest and con'te tee r to, te
same language, if you believe they areessential
of the country. You should say, if we are ~ytcroft
ground, we will be ready to spring up again: that oe.,id
your course, if you are conscientiously of opine ing not rot
is good which you are advocating. A"ti!, a riot to ere
you can carry out your purpose—and this tee,orte,oo
00
I wish to draw your attention—for it is most 11 lie
erCes e 1
public in other places—whatdo eouexpect tog %0
there are no middle classes, where there are 1 01001 i
—no manufacturers—no farmers, probably *not the 'telt,
be read. You want a dissolution—you 00 do
of the country Have you ever eene-
~ ,i 0
the opinion of the country is? l'1", Ye'oritfeste
know what the country thinks of your opinionrsi•cal 0,41000
will be able to get, by a dissolution, a "'ler for see f'
this House, but I tell that if you consider lye tteotioe
you will not have that majority if you a"
the regi' th°,
liament. I think lam some authority on,
tell leweill
this country.—( Cheers.) Well, then, you e '`olv
pot ilk change has taken place, and
wouldthat
gain by such a dissolution. I
o_,rary, elt 103
s• three months ago, but, on the eon is ert ts br°WeisOct
have agreed with you; but now your re e)erie otos Ol
(Cries of " No, no.") It shows that you ne:, by theeltee
these subjects as you ought. Do not be lednawv2lire ,co(ch
sit
shouting around you, lik• the manner i
eourge'-- forger
whistle in a churchyard to keep up their your eerf_e
and laughter.) Examine these facts beta °u y 0 "
leaders have done so, and you have none anle- .;!r them, obtcl
ing to be your leaders unless they well con-taints
" •'ti
cannot rank a town numbering 25,000 inht3De▪ li•oniftl vol;
you could depend for the return of a pro e
__o
0,, ,
hear, and cries of " No, no.") Well, then, end
pocket boroughs and your nomination eon.ntireousgsbe,
odil 0
sums that you have a majority of pocket n° TA " oh' r,
allow that that majority may possibly en,l°Uyou woneote,o
thirty, what would be your position then . , Lae
et, ,
on this side of the House the Members for Len_olouverl
Yorkshire, Cheshire, and every member
.or. si'Lfiol!
Scotland.—(t heers.) Why, you would shring,snbeour
position, and there would be more defections 1,4 e, 1;101;0
arid more adhesions to our ranks than ever. tie ,e
to --.100, for
forePedthere -got° 'be
In spite of all pledges, nay, if yon were ste
hero t(11,, te,
pledges, you would come across this floor,
no safety without it, and the very men who cameleuria
protection, would vote otherwise when they retiereve,
country was determined to have the cornenle_e? eeJe
( Hear, hear.) Now, is not that public opt le': eriytPt.Ttlicl
have a sufficient amount of public opinion to_,!', be rioWolpioiDoi
this country. The dynasty of the Stuarts wolto'vuelierepteion
upon the throne, had they the same amounot ' ie
for -
expressed in their favour as was now declar
the corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) That amountn!,F.nd
is sufficient to clang, the form of GOTeralle "