The Sun.
London, England, 1846-06-19 00:00:00

RAILWAY.

Tho Bill for making the Aethley, Askern, and
Oakenham branches of the Wak-field, Pontefract, and
Goole Railway, was read a third time, and passed.
On the motion of Sir C. DOUGLAS, the Lords' amend-
ments to the Stafford New Gas Bill were agreed to.
Dir. DUNCONIBE said that no case whatever had
been made out for such haste. His opinion was that none
of the Bills should pass at all; at any rate let them go be-
fore another Committee next year. He objected to the
Bill altogether, and the proceedings before the Com-
mittee, and he hoped the motion would be withdrawn.
Mr. PROTHEROE was willing to withdraw the
motion.

The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
Several Bills were brought down from the Lords, the
titles of which were inaudible.
BROAD AND NARROW GAUGE.

On the order of the day being read,
Mr. HUME rose to present a petition from the Cor-
poration of Glasgow praying for a uniform gauge
throughout the country.
RAILWAY GAUGE.

On the motion for resuming the adjourned debate on
he Broad and Narrow Gauge question,
Mr. EVELYN DENISON said that he wished to
urge a few arguments against the resolutions in their
present shape. So much had been said in that House
with regard to personal interest and partiality that he
hoped he might be allowed to say that he had no con-
nexion with either of the great parties who were con-
tending for this point. He had no concern with any
railway speculation of any sort or kind ; and as to par-
tiality, when the broad gauge was last year before the
House he gave his vote in favour of the extension in the
broad gauge from Oxford to Rugby and WolverhamPtaonr;
He was quite ready to admit, and no man could have
The
doubt on the point, that the luxurious coavetmeens.ce
speed of the broad gauge had many advane g
Gauge Commissioners, and that
repo,r
case was now altered. They had had thheard abpeoer
and it must be
the consideration of the Board of Trade. nt onfndtheer
mitted by the Commise
-
narrow gauge had now beennf Trade,
conceded that the preference andpredomma
besides the general
nc9 of th
sioners and by the Board
The inconvenience and difficulty
voice of the country.
gui ten i
ess
ahhtooi
should
staahumaitethlseionuebtrhoof—adetohgrnaalnu
these resolutions was this. upon
in
he wished to point out as likely
Theytorlevseurelt
called
yllecdonfircning
the House to acknowledge the formation of the narrow
gauge
be formed from Rugby to Oxford ; and they were called
line both naoffirtthrhem
called upon to assert, on the au-
uatThlphsco:ernyi btyae;'ledOrL fiedd:ldlsahiorTleridnae tflato(ieriein't , that the narrow gauge line of
communication, from north to south should pass.
through the very jaws of the i
going from ono district to the othegraugeNowln,
what authority had they for this ?could He find
none bat the authority of' the Commissioners. He
thought it was unjust to call upon them to carry a line
of communication from the north to the south on the
narrow, passing through the very jaws of the broad
guage ; and he confessed, if the Right Hon. Baronet
succeeded in carrying the restriction, he must give
notiee that the word " not" be omitted out of the third
resolution, which provided that it is not expedient to
alter the provisions of the Bill for making a railway
from Oxford to Rugby. It would be impossible to ex-
tend the broad gauge on the Rugby line beyond Oxford.
The report of the Gauge Commi• sioners certainly car-
ried the opinions of the Eight non, Gentleman 46

far as the first and second resolutions went ; but the
third resolution was of a very different nature, for it
sanctioned the continuation of the narrow gauge for
railways in the north of England. These resolutions
would really have no force at all, for the House had
already affirmed the spirit of them by Acts of Parlia"
went. The resolutions appeared to him inconvenient,
and would produce bad results, and he must beg of the
Right Hon. Gentleman not to persist in forcing them
upon the House. It seemed to him, that if an experl-
ment were to be made, it should be made in accordance
with the decision of the Board of Trade and the com-
panies concerned. He should not call upon the Heal
of Commons to express an opinion upon a matter whin"
involved so much doubt as this. When the fifth wee,
proposed, he should propose to leave out the word "not.
The SPEAKER then put the resolution, which was;
as follows:—" That in order to complete the general
chain of narrow gauge communication from the north
to the southern coast, and to the port of Bristol, any
suitable measures should be promoted to form a narrow
gauge link from Gloucester to Bristol, and also from
Oxford to Basingstoke, or by any shorter route COn'
e nectin the proposed Rugby and Oxford line with the
South Western Railway, without prejudice however to
he formation of any other line, also connecting, ercule"
en uniform gauge and by a direct route, the north el
England with the southern coast."
The resolution was unanimously agreed to.
Sir G. CLERK then moved the fourth resolution
That it is the opinion of this House, that it is expedient
that the'South Wales line, and its branches to Mon-
mouth and Hereford, should be formed on the broad'
gauge." The Board of Trade had given the best con-
sideration to the subject, and after much deliberation
they had arrived at the conclusion embodied in the re-
solution, that the South Wales Railway should be formed
on the broad gauge.
Sir G. GREY repeated his objection to the House
interfering to pronounce an opinion whether or not it
was expedient to construct a line on the broad or the
narrow gauge. If it were necessary for a railway to be
laid down on the broad gauge, let provisions for that
purpose be inserted in the Act itself. He protested
against any alterations being made in the gauge except
by an Act of Parliament. He should, therefore, move
as an amendment, that the word " not" be inserted after
" is," so that the resolution would read, " That it is not
expedient, &c.," and if that was carried, he would follow
it up by another amendment to carry out his views. 3
After a few words from Mr. ORMSBY GORE and
another HON. MEMBER,
Mr. HAWES would test the technicality of the ob-
jection of his Right Hon. Friend by a few observations.
He had only to move that in the opinion of the House,
it was the technical objection that could be got over by
adopting the resolution of the Board of Trade. Let it
be recollected what the House had already done. TheY
had confined the narrow gauge system to a particular
locality, and south of Bristol the broad gauge was to be
laid down. He trusted that both parties—both those
who advocated the narrow gauge, and those who
were in favour of the broad gauge—had been heard.
It was merely a tc chnical objection, and therefore, he
did think that the House ought to sanction the resolutio9;
Under the circumstances in which the House was placed_
they would be fully justified in the course that wad
proposed.
After a few words from Sir G. GREY in explanation.
Mr. HUME said it appeared to him that it would be
better to strike out the resolution altogether.
Lortdo
expressSAND any opinionONdid a
not think
thkthe broadeHouse was called
upon
gauge. but
only to recommend the adoption of a certain coursepro..
pos, d by the Board of Trade.
Sir T. WILDE observed, that the adoption by the
Gauge Commissioners of the narrow gauge had naturally
caused much alarm amongst the broad gauge companies.
The only object of the resolution was to allay any un-
necessary alarm that might be created among the pro:
prietors of the South Wales Companies, that they would
not be allowed to construct their line on the gauge that
had been originally intended.
After a few words from Mr. CHRISTIE and Sir G.
GREY,
of
theSibrr To
a.
dDgYa
gauge
wAeCr Le AnNo
tDs
astai
si
fid
etdh awti
tthh eaperodmeeoisteiorns of
the Commissioners, but bad consented to.the Commission
on public principles.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the resolution
Against it l4
Majority
On the sth resolution being proposed, " That it is the
opinion of this House that it is not expedient to alter the
provisions of the Acts for forming a line of railway from
Rugby to Oxford, and for forming a line of railway
from Oxford to Worcester and Wolverhampton, with
respect to the gauge on which they may be formed. not:
with respect to the powers therein conferred on the Board
of Trade."
He M Mr.
thoughtL A
that U erh
0E
HR
oEu rs
eo eb
yt oamd
oaoke a
ti
ngf ea ws
eorbi sees r
ov
fa ti °n•
reso-
lutions like those proposed, did not take upon itself any
responsibility whatever. He could not help thinking, that
consistently with the interests of the public, there might
be some mode of extending the broad gauge to the
manufacturing districts. If it had any advane
cages, as had, been admitted, there was no
means as yet, owing to its restricted use, of testing them
efficiently. For his own part, he was of opinion that it
would be wrong to decide the question entirely in fa-
vour of one side, as that system of competition which
would be excited by the use of both gauges would be
thereby put an end to. He should, therefore, say, let
them have both the narrow
.and the broad gauge, as far
as they could be laid down consistently with the inte-
rests of the public. If Parliament were to establish the
best system of railways what, he would ask was, that
they would not, by resolution or otherwise,preclude theme
selves from again considering the question, if it should be
found that a double line could be laid down with safety
He would also object to allow the question of gauge to
be decided by Railway Committees of that House. It
was a question which required the consideration of emi-
nent engineers, and he would therefore have a re-
sponsible body appointed by the Government, to whose
decision in all cases the question should be left. These
were all the observations he thought himself called upon
to make. If it was the opinion of the Right Honourable
Gentleman opposite, that they were not by this reso-
lution precluded from again considering the matter, he
had no wish to trouble the House with any resolution on
the subject, but if not, then he would move as all
amendment, a resolution embodying his views—the
draft of which he would read. It would afford hint
much pleasure, however, if the Right Hon. Gentleman
would state that both gauges were practicable on the same
line.

Mr. HUDSON concurred most fully in the observa-
tions which had fallen from the Right Honourable
Gentleman who had just sat down. If it were con-
sidered that it would tend to the public advantage to
have two gauges on the same line, he saw no reason
why the double gauge should not be laid down. He
must bear his testimony to the fairness and impartiality
which had been evinced by Honourable Members
who had spoken on both sides of the ques-
tion ; and he trusted that the liberality
thus exhibited would stimulate all the companies to in-
creesed exertion for the public advantage. He would
not enter into any discussion with the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Russell), as to the comparative merits of their
respective lines. They were met there to settle resolu-
tions as to what tended to the public advantage, and for
that reason he would confine his observations to the re-
solution. He felt the strongest objection to having the
two systems on one line. Several of the most eminent
engineers had said so, and to him it appeared, that if it
were attempted to be carried out, it would be attendee'
with the most imminent danger to the public. It might
be found to work well for the distance of four or fi"
miles, but if extended to a long distance, there would be
such a complication of difficulties as would make it
impracticable. The confusion created could not be
described. Let there be an independent line for both it
it was Considered beneficial to the public advantage, but
he hoped the Board of Trade would be slow in giving
an opinion on laying down both gauges on the same line,
as he had the authority of several engineers that it wan
utterly impracticable. He felt the strongest objection to
anything that would cause complication or confusion in
the present railway system, and, if the double gauge
system were carried out, he would not be responsible for
the working ofit. He hoped the suggestion of the Board of
Trade as to the uniformity of gauge would be carried out
Mr. C. RUSSELL made a few observations, but they
were not audible in the gallery.
After a few words from Sir G. GREY,
anyS i
one gauge
gCLERKaug
Thferrd,hWorcester, and
e oversai danthoathtert.hey
passed last year, called the
thereo was a clause
Wolverhampton Railway Bill, and
the promoters to lay
in-
troduced into that Bill, pledging
weree notad now adopting
now called upon to lay down
re-
quire it. They were
then put by the SPEAKER, and
- ora Mr. EVELYN DENISON and
downt
ose
rdaoialsb./e se s of rails should the Board of Trade
Mr. Aftere oL
Las.,
.f erw, iv)rcs- fr
he resolution as

the will,
motionb y t
fhoer permission
readingtheoofrdtheresHofoutshee,
agreed to..ERT PEEL rose and said sir ROBERT , Sir, I wish to
give __
tomorrow,notic
day for the Prevention of Murders in Ireland, make
some statement with respect to those charges preferred
against me for transactions alleged lace
teti:tl
to have taken p
in the years 1825, 1827, and 1829.
Upon the Right Hon. Baronet having down, Mr.
House, but returned Disraeli hurriedly left the Ho sat
koala"
ti
clincate.
kly afterwards,
accompanied by Lord George Ben"
Mr. PHILIP MILES moved for a copy of the original
advertisement for tenders for carrying her Majesty
to 1, by stern to and from Halifax, and for a copy c'f
the printed form of instructions sent to collectors of
Customs of the ports, authorised to tender, for the
guidance of parties tendering ; also, for copies of the
tende-s or letters of tender handed in at the proper thin
at Somerset House, in compliance with the terms of sal.9,
instructions. Copies of tenders made after the time,
any. Copy of the original contract under which
mails were settled to be carried between Liverpool and
Halifax, and Halifax and Boston. Copies of all agree-
ments made after the date of said contract, upon anY
increase of the term of said original contract, or of the
grant for the service. Ret,urn of the sums paid to the
contracting party to date, specifying whether grants or
permiuient increase of terms, and the dates of the same'
Copy of the new contract entered into or about to be
entered into for carrying mails between Liverpool and
New York.

The motion was agreed to.
PROTECTION TO LIFE (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion that the adjourned debate on this Bill
be resumed,
Sir ANDREW ARMSTRONG, who was quite in-
audible in the gallery. addressed the Huuso, as we
understood, in opposition to the Bill.
Mr. BENNET said that he had taken a great deal
of pains to ascertain, according to his own judgment,
Whitt the effect of this immure Trold by, Lie had boa

told, and he knew, that the Bill was unconstitutional in
its principles ; and the great question was whether the
present state of affairs justified the application of any
such measure. The great want of Ireland at present
Was security for life and property ; and the position of
affairs was certainly somewhat anomalous with regard
to those who should be resident io that country. They
Were told that they would be punished for non-resi-
dence ; and if they did reside, the probability was that
they would be shot from behind their own garden walls.
He could not feel. however, that such powers as those
now sought for should be accorded to the Government.
He had been for a long time in doubt and difficulty on
this subject, and he had at length come to the conclu-
sion that he could not support this measure.—(Hear,
hear.) The great evil in Irel aid was, that the people
were misled—and yet this measure was directed against
those who actually committed the evil, and not
against those who had misled the people to it.—
Why did they not stop the grievance at its source?
Why did they not attack that monster grievance
agitation, which he believed to have been the source and
origin of the present state of crime. The Govern-
ment of England had never attacked the origin of
crime in Ireland. They had not gone to the root of the
evil, but they had gone to extremities in order to repress
the effects of a system which was working mischief:
The law of Elizabeth might be applied to Ireland, to
compel the landowners to find work for those who were
not employed, and if such a measure had been proposed
in conjunction with the present Bill, he thought that
he could have consented to any degree of severity. It
Was, however, a monstrous evil that the language which
was used to the people of Ireland was such as to pro-
duce rasichief. The principle of agitation had been in-
culcated. The people were told to agitate, yet they
Were told of their millions and their physical strength.
It reminded him of the trial of Mr. Cobbett, when there
was read from one of his Registers a caution to the peo-
ple of Dorsetshire and Wiltshire, when so much
incendiarism prevailed. Mr. Cobbett said to the
people that they were wrong in burning a
tay-rick here and there, for they did little
harm, and the diabolical Whigs were watching
them, and would hang them if they could as they would
hang him. He, however, mentioned that there were corn-
fields in the adjacent country, some of which were four
or five hundred acres in extent. The corn was very ripe
at that time of the year, and exceedingly inflamable.
There were public pathways through it, and he cau-
tioned them not to smoke their pipes as they passed for
fear of a-cidents. There was nothing in the naturs of
the Irish people but what could be changed by edu-
cation and proper treatment. It was a disgrace to this
country that so many Governments had failed in manag-
ing the Irish people. Ireland had been and was the
Opprobrium of successive Governments. On the present
occasion he was sorry he could not juin in supporting
the Bill before the House, feeling as he did, that it
Would not cure the state of things complained of.
Captain LAYARD thought the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down was of a very disinterested dis-
position, when he said the Government had not done
their best to put down agitation in Ireland. He was an
Englishman, still ho knew a great deal of Ireland, and
he could tell the Hon. Gentleman, who seemed
not much acquainted with that country, that
the real cause of discontent was the con-
dition of the people, and the misery they
had been enforced to endure. No coercion could put
that down. On a former occasion he stated how happy
he should be if the Noble Lord (Lord George Bentinck)
and his party would join with the Irish Members in de-
feating the Bill before the House, and he (Captain
Lsyard) now returned thanks to those Members of that
treat party who now agreed to vote a!ainst the mea-
Sure. With their help he fully trusted that the ob-
tostious Bill would be defeated.—(Hear, hear.) He
learned, however, that some Members who had acted
With the Noble Lord (Lord George Bentinck) intended
to vote for the Bill, and to them he would address him-
%lt They had, by their proceedings and speeches, de-
tiered they had no confidence in the Right Hon. Baronet
and the Government. If so, if they had no faith ie
the Government, how could they do anything which
Would put such extraordinary power in the hands of
those they could not trust.—(Hear, hear.) The mea
sure was an unconstitutional one, and having no faith in
the Government they were bound to refuse trusting them
With carrying it into effect. This consideration and
the fact that the state of things in the five
COunties had much improved, were reasons sufficient
Why all those who acted with the Noble Lord (Lord G
Bentinck) should oppose the present Bill. He learned,
,_lllßO, with sorrow, that some members on this side of the
House—he hoped very few—intended to vote for the
Bill. He would ask those what return would that be on
the part of those Liberals to the Irish Members, who had
some over, at great inconvenience, to support the Corn
sill—a Bill, by the by, which was not over popular in
Ireland ? Still, the Irish Members believing this Corn
sill a good and honest measure, supported it, and it
Would ill become the Liberal Membersf to return that
eaPport now, by voting for a Bill to coerce the Irish
teeple.—(Hear, hear.) If the present Bill was a bad
414 no consideration of having a Corn Bill should
;Iterate on them to give the former their support. But
e Corn Bill was safe ; there could be no doubt as to its
eoccess ; and that excuse did not remain for the parties
leferred to joining with the Government against the Irish
People. He believed the evils of Ireland would be best met
finding employment for the people, by the encourage•
teentof public works; and in this respect he (Capt.Layard)
agreed with the sentiments of the Duke of Leinster,
Who
that day had presided over a meeting for forward-
xng that object. He gave every credit to the Noble
Lord (Lincoln) for the measures he had proposed,
ate S. movement in the right direction ; still they were
hot so comprehensive as might have been desired. Even
the present distress of Ireland he thought would prove
beneficial in improving Ireland. It had led to the use
of Indian corn in place of potatoes, and he was happy
to say that wherever that grain was used in preference
to potatoes, fever had much decreased.— (Hear, hear.)
The introduction of Indian corn would lead to a taste
for a higher class of food, and the standard of comfort
Would accordingly be raised. Some apprehended that
the union between England and Ireland could not be
Inaintained, but he for one was not of that opinion ; as
le thought equal laws and equal Government would yet
lead to the existence of a united yet free and happy
PeaPle.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENLEY said the measure had been before
rarliament since the 15th of March, when it was first
Printed. It had dragged its length for seven weeks in
the House of Lords, and • then it found its way to the
Commons. It was then read a first time. He was one
that thought a measure founded on a message from the
"'own, and, coming from the Lords, in deference to
that body, should be read without discussion a first time,
that account he voted for the first reading of the
1. Now, the House must bear in mind that, before
stringent and unconstitutional measure such as that
t,_ eh they were now considering could be passed,
„Lin', must be convinced that there was a
ng case made out.—(Hear, hear.) He was
moat
of those, too, who thought all parties
Mat concur in its expediency before they could
Ma a severe coercive and unconstitutional measure, and
certainly it was not so in the present instance, while he
_
bound to say a sufficient case had net been made out
to Justify his voting for the second reading of this Bill.
'(Heer.) To show that a case had not been made
ottt, he referred to the returns which had been published
With regard to the state and extent of crime in Ireland.
In Which it was manifest that crime had not reached such
Pitch as to render the passing of a Coercion Bill neces-
sary. From the returns he found that the number of
homicides committed in all Ireland in 1843 were 106, in
1844, 146, and in 1845, 139; but Government said they
did not rest the case of this Bill upon the returns re-
lating to all Ireland, but upon the returns relating to
five particular counties. Now he found that the number
of homicides committed in these five counties were in
1842, 38 ; in 1845, 42 ; an increase not large
enough to justify the passing of the Bill. With regard
to attempts at murder, the numbers were for all Ireland,
all 1842, 40; for the five counties 13; while in 1845 they
Were 45, and for the five counties 15. The numbersplating
to assaults endangering life were for 1842, 249 ; in 1845,
237, showing apositive decrease. The
assaults were in
1845, 229; for the five counties 63, but thenumbers of
aggravated assaults stood thus—in 1842, 420; in 1845,
3445; while the proportions for the five counties were 141.
It was clear that these returns did not justify the passing
of a stringent Coercion Bill, but the House had recently
the
been put in possession of some returns relating to the
an
?resent year. These, however, did nothowsuc
Increase in the crime of Ireland as to impress him with
.!‘ conviction that this Bill ought to be passed. For
Instance, in the case of aggravated assaults, he found
Ihere were 53 mentioned in the return, but on looking
n
another p)rtion of it be found that only 24 were
brought to justice. These returns then did not make out
clue for this Bill, and again he must repeat that after
giving the subject his earnest attention, he could not
Ltonscientiously support the second reading of the Bill.
No Irish gentleman whom he had yet heard sneak in
favour of the Bill said that he thought it would do any
good at all, and that, in his (Mr. Henley's) opinion,
Was one of the best reasons why the Bill should not be
allowed to proceed. He had carefully reviewed the
tveeches of those Irish gentlemen, and he must confess,
that when none of them maintained that the Bill would
effect its objects, he could not understand what induced
them to vote in favour of it.—(Hear, hear.) The next
question that he had to ask himself Was whether there
was any reason if, in his own judgment, was,
did not be-
lieve the measure necessary, he should yield his own
judgment to those who supported the measure; becausen
there might be many measures with respect to which,
however much one might try to inform themselves, it
Was their duty at once to yield to the judgment of those
Who might be supposed to be better informed; and he
nuns to the conclusion that that was so upon the present
occasion. Now, the First Minister of the Crown, when
he spoke of the Bill—if he (Mr. Henley) recollected
aright, certainly dwelt very much upon the necessity of
Some measure. He seemed to him "to fight very shy"
With the Bill, to use such an expression.—(Hear, hear,
and laughter.) He appeared to the House in this posi-
tion, " Will you by your vote affirm that in your judg-
bent something is not necessary for Ireland?" That
Watt the course which the argument of the Right Hon.
Baronet appeared to take. He did not wish to misstate
What the Right lion. Gentleman said, and these were his
Words, and with thepermission of the House, lie would
read them. Sir Robert Peel said, " Sir,—The question
We have to decide is not whether we shall go into Com-
l_nittee upon the Bill, which her Majesty's Ministers have
felt it their duty to propose. The question will not be
Whether we shall consider the Bill in Committee,
for the purpose of removing anything from its
details, and at that time mitigating the principle
of the Bill, &c., but the question which the House will
have to decide will be whether it will reject altogether
proposal—will refuse the consideration of its justi-
fication—will imply that the present condition of Ireland
etti be dealt with by the existing law, and implying opi-
Mons that no additional protection is necessary for the
Promotion of life and property in Ireland." Then,
be mid, hi the latter put of his alma; " Any