The Sun.
London, England, 1848-05-06 00:00:00

FREE TRA-DE IN INDIA.

Mr. RICARDO, seeing the Right Honourable Baron« t
the Secretary for the Board ot Control in his place,
wished to ask him a question with reference to an Act ot
the Governor-Gtnertil of India. The Hou,e was aware
that hitherto all goods introduced in the ports ot
India in British bottoms stood upon more tavourable
tooting then the commodities brought. into India by
foreign ships. He understood that the Governor.
General of India had passed an Act placing both
British and foreign ships upon the same footing, and he
wished to know from the Right Honourable Baronet
ss nether this inforination was correct, and it so whether
he had any objection to lay the Act upon the table of the
House.

Sir J. C. HOBIIOUSE said, in answer to the ques-
tion of the Hon. Gentleman, he had to state that the in
formation the Hon. Gentleman had received was strictly
correct. The Act was passed in accordance with the
instructions sent out from the Home Government, and
he could have no objection to lay it upon the table of the
House. lie would take that opportunity of stating that
the Governor Genaral had done away with the coast
duties, and the reason for his doing so was this:—
The duties by land had previously been abolished,
and it was therefore thought expedient not to continue
the Act of 1839, which imposed duties upon foreign
coasting vessels in favour of British bottoms. The Go
vernor-General had now abolished all differential duties,
and be would take care that the Act by which they
were abolished should be laid upon the table of the.
House.

Lord G. BENTINCK said the House would see that
under the Act all goods from Singapore would come into
India free of duty. The House was, no doubt, aware that
Singapore was a free port, and that the Act had been
so learned that no exception had been made against the
goods landeu at Singapore, re-shipped, and then imported
into India. An impression consequently prevailed, that
any goods landed at Singapore and re• shipped could enter
any port in India free from all duties. He begged leave,
therefore, to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether this
impression on the public mind be or be not correct, and
if it be correct, whether any instructions to that effect
went out from this country, or whether it had arisen
through some oversight or mistake on the part of the
Governor-General of India.
Sir J. C. HOBIIOUSE said the matter had not es-
caped his observation, and he had applied to the India
Board for information on the subject. He had no doubt,
however, that the exception of the port of Singapore
in the Act arose from an oversight.
Mr. ROBINSON wished to know whether the Act
could come into operation without receiving the sanction
of the Home Government.
sir J. C. IIOBHOUSE reminded the Honourable.
Gentleman that it had alteady received the sanction of
t ith e Iwnadsi AP Ba sos ae rd in
cCti(7l,l MISSION.
pthuersidu .ainthcee
of
ti):l'setrrnuna tnt.sisceans
tmouucth
byes
appeared at the table, and summon
Ro al Assent given by Coln-House or Peers, to hear the y
Sir AUGUSTUS CLIFFORD, the UshedertohfethHe6Bultuecktoß;hide,
mistio to seyersl Bills;

On the return of the SPEAKER he enumerated the
Bills (for which see Lords' report). ,
POOR. LAW UNIONS—AUDI LING ArCOUNTS.
Mr. BANKES presented a petition numerously signed
by the guardians and officers of several unions in Dorset,
stating that the present system of auditing accounts io
poor law unions was productive of great expense, delay,
and inconvenience, and praying the House to devise a
remedy.

PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
Mr. URQUHART presedted a petition against this
Bill, but particularly against those clauses which prevent
public bodies from managing their own aff4irs.
Sir W. CLAY presented a petition against this Bill,
particularly its centralization principle.
Lord \I ORPETH presented several petitions in favoilr
of the Bill.

CEYLON.
Mr. HUME gave notice that on Monday he should
ask the Right Hon. Baronet the President of the Board
Of Control whether any orders had been sent to Ceylon,
like those sent to tither parts of ludia, respecting dutics
on impurts.and on shipping.
ADJOURNMENT" OF THE HOUSE.

On the- motion of Mr. PARKER. the House was
ordered to adjourn at its rising until Alonday.
• INDIAN MAIL.
In answer to a question put oy Mr. MCGREGOR,
Mr. WARD said that it was intended to make an
alteration in the existing arralgements, and adopt the
route by Marseilles and Alexandria.
ALIEN BILL.
On the motion of Sir G. GREY, the House went
into Committee on the Alien Bill.
Upon clause 1 t.eing proposed,
Mr. HUME proposed to add the words, " and
upon oath."
Sir GEORGE GREY said that the adoption of such
words would have the Effect of embarrassing the Go-
vernment.

Mr. HUME thought it a monstrous thing that thf
liberties 01 the people should be thus trifled with, ar4
should most certainly persist in his motion.
Lord D. STUART moved the amendment of wWh
he had given notice, to substitute tor' information glen
in writing" the words " from declarations laid beforellem
in writing, under 5 and 6 William IV., cap. 62. In
moving this-amendment, he begged it to be undeotood,
that- he still entertained • the greatest objection to the
measure, thinking it most unnecessary.
Sir G. GREY Could not adopt the amendmel of the
Noble Lord, but had no objection to comer; to the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Datiam (Mr.
Granger).
Lord DUDLEY STUART, after a few cords froth
Dr. Bowring, withdrew his amendment, ani
Mr. GRANGER then moved his amencrnent to the
first clause, to insert the words " by an. person sub-
scribing his or her name and address therto."
The amendment was agreed to, and
Mr. HUME proposed to add the word, " upon oath,
or by affirmation."

• The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objezted to the addi.
tion proposed by Mr. flume, which tias ultimately with.
drawn.

Mr. GRANGER then proposei to insert the follow-
ing proviso at the end of close one:—" Provided
always, and be it enacted, that if any peison
shall knowingly and maliciously give any such
information as aforesaid, of aid concerning any such
alien, which shall be false in sooe material part thereof.
every such person shalt be guilty of a anidemeanor, and
being convicted thereof shall, at the discretion of the
Court, be liable to be imprisoned for any time not ex-
ceeding three months."
Mr. HUME moved the insertion of the following
words, " provided always, that a copy of every such or-
der shall be immediately served on the alien or alienist,
ordered to depart, and shall be accompanied by a copy
of the information in writing, and the name of the in-
former."

Sir GEORGE GREY said he did not see any neces
shy of inserting these words.

Mr. HU ME said there was every necessity, and in his
opinion the paragraph ought to come before the
amendment of Mr. Granger. This Bill as it stood
was simply an encouragement of the spy system. It
encouraged people to give information in secret that
they dare not publicly disclose, and he certainly pi o-
posed the insertion. 01 these words to vitiate that prtn-
ciPle. ,
Lord DUDLEY STUART supported the motion
for the insertion. of the words. A man might be commit-
ting an offence without being aware of it it this
'notion were not- agreed -to -; for if an alien had not
an opportunity of seeing the Gazette, he might remain
in the country and render himself liable to
thrown into prison. Was this to be tolerated in a free
country ? • He hoped not, - and if Government
would give the question their dispassionate considera-
tion, he was sure they would at once accede to the
motion of the Honourable Gentleman, the Member for
Montrose.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the Noble Lord
had given au exaggerated version cf this portion of the Bill.
Be contended that it would be all but impossible for the
Government to serve the order upon the parties, as their
movements would, in all cases of dangerous conspiracy,
be of a private and wealthy nature.
Mr. HUME thought that the Bill as it now stood gave
powers -as monstrous.. as those possessed by the old
French Government under the system of lettres dc cachet.
Sir G. GREY said that this Bill would not in the least
degree interfere 'with the rights and privileges given -to
all the people, whether foreigners or not, of this country,
by virtue of the Habeas Corpus Act.
ssid, that. under this Act, a person
nigh. I,„hen and expelled from the country in rive
or six hours; and where, then was the use of the Habeas
Corpus Act i?
The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said that a remedy
for that evil would be found in the Bill itself, as if the
party alleged any r.qssou why he should not be sent out
of the country, be would nut be so sent until his case
had been tully. heaiil and decided.
messia:MUNTZ and GIUNGER severally supported the
amendment.
___

Sir G. GREY said that if Hon. Members could supply
the Government with lists of the aliens whom it might
be necessary to remove, they should all be served with
notice. _ _

----
. Mr. HUME said the Right Hon. Baronet's proposition
was the must iniquitous behid ever known.—(A laugh.)
Everything he (Mr. Hume). had beard confirmed him in
thelph.
Committee of pressing his amendment.
divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment 34 _
Against it
Majority —l24
Mr. GRANGER, then proposed the following pro-
person shall knowingly and be it enacted, that if any
always: I%d maliciously give any such
.aloresaid, of and concerning any such
aivilliisiir:7—::li iichn Providedas
shall
ch person shall be guilty of a misdemeanour, and
ebveienrgy,caounvicted thereof shall, at the discretion of th'
Court, be imprisoned for any time nut ex-
ceeding three-months."
The
ikT liable
t'o I
t Nto E
y . GENERAL opposed the proviso.
The House having negatived the proposition to publish
the name of the informer, any provision for his punish-
ment would be iheltss.

The Committee divided, when there appeared
Fur the Pruviso 33
.Against it............
aj °city

The clause was then agreed to.
Clause 2 was agreed to without discussion.
On clause 3,

Lord D. S I'UART thought it hard that aliens should
in ad cases be, sent back to their own country. lie
tbOught that, leaving the country, they should have per
mission to gu where they pleased. His Lard-hip moved
the insertion of words to that effect, but subsequently
withdrew his amendment.
Mr. COCKBURN proposed to add a proviso, re-
quiring the Lords of the Privy Council to cause to be
delivered to the alien in writing a general summary of
the matters charged against him and to allow reasonable
time for his defence; and that, at his request, they
•
should summon witnesses to be examined on osth in the
case. Unless some such provision were made, the oppeoi
given by the Bill would be wholly inefficacious, and an
alien might, without any fault of his own, at the instiga-
tion of some private enemy, be compelled to leave tne
country.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought such an in-
quiry as his Honourable and Learned Friend proposed
wouid give. the matter the form of a judicial proceeding,
which was not the intention of the Bill. If his Hon.
-and Learned Friend, however, pec.iated in the amend-
ment, he saw no serious objection to it.
After a short conversation the proviso was adopted,
and the clause, as amended, agreed to.

On clause 4,
Lord O. STUART moved to substitute " one" for
"seven " years as the period within which aliens, having
resided iu.this.country, should be liable to the operation
of the Bill.
Sir G. GRLY•could not agree to the amendment pro-
posed; but as Government had no wish to take larger
powers than were in their opinion necessary, he was
willing to substitute "three" for "seven" years.
Mr. E W ART apprehended that the alleged necessity
for the Bill arose entirely from the events of the last
few. mouths.—(Hear, hear.) • Tf so, where was -the titre
in extending the operation of the Bill to foreigners who
had been in this country
more than a year, and whose
residence here could have nothing to do with those
to our government, or with any view to pro•
plots.
events ?
Mr., BRIGHT also remarked that those foreigners,
whose,residencs here dated more than a year back could
not possibly be persons who bad come with any hostile
intentions
pagate the principles which bad lately obtained in some
other countries.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Bat there are persons engaged
inassassination
Mr. BRIGHT could not understand what the Govern-
ment meant by these mysterious hints about plots. It
they had other reasons to justify this Bill than those
they had given they should state them.—(Hear, hear.)
In Manchester and Liverpool, and nu doubt in other
trading towns, there were many foreigners, whose onl)
object was commerce, and who.,e residence here was ad-
vantageous to us, lie knew not why Parliament should
give powers to the Government to compel all such per-
sons as had not been here more than three years to
leave the country at the instigation of any man who,
for purporses of his own, might denounce them.—
(Hear, hear.)
appeared to him that Government
were cherishing a suspicion of foreigners unworthy of
this country.—(Cheers.)
Mr.R. YOIthE reminded the Hon. Member for Man-
chester that the bill would not apply to persons engaged
in commerce, but to those only whose object was to in-
cite to interference with the established institutions of
the country and the disturbance of the public peace. -
lir. MUNTZ observed that the Hon. Member lei
York seemed himself to forget that it. was possible for a
roan to be denounced' without being criminal.. Merit
wi3 no ground for the Bill -at and- he wad almost

S E vENI.ISG, MAIt 6, 1848.

ashamed to call hnself an Englishman if it was to be
supposed that a iff paltry foreign blackguards might
succeed in overttming all our instittvions unless the
Government had ewer to send them out of the country.
the whole proceeing was a disgrace to the Ministers
and to the countr)—(Cheers.)
Mr. HILDYAID said, the fear was not that any
number of foreignrs residing here could overturn the
Government, but he mischief that their machiaations
might produce to- or own fellow-subjects. Englishmen
bad never bad rectarse, even in periods of tPe greatest
excitement, to hose practices which had dis-
graded some other countries, and he hord they never
would. There vere. however, pries in these
kingdoms now, he vas very sorry to nay, who would
se most abominable
.
not hesitate to iocit the people to r
p.oreigners who had been
aces—as throwing vitriol in the aces of the troops—
( to r ach he alluded as having
( Hear)—and it was 3ossibla than.
corr, here and endeavour to it.-
engaged in the prat
. morbid sensibility on the part
occurred abroad,
duce people to follow tholexarnple. Should it happen
°loud of any of the people should
that, inconsequence of
uld, as a Member of that Legisla-
Of tlie Legislature tit
have to be stied,
ashamed of himself than he should
titre; be much rn.vr
ifow be for havito voted for this Bill.
Mr. Huy/Enid that no foreigner would be permitted,
to
advise a -nsturbancien'Otfhitt country, unlterey., tolr raani)s,emhais
nvoiceven-
tured in any public. 4"eting
to r" so he would assuredly be turned out He
feared tt,6 under. this Bill persons who sought refuge in
this coetry from political p‘ rsecution at home might. at
the in
agatlon of their enemies, be compelled to return
to a tare where, perhaps, their lives would be forfeited.
_riedr.) The Bill was a disgrace to its authors. He
.hldd support the, substitution of "one" year for the
,fee proptie,l by the I-14 inie Secretary.
Mr. Alderman SIDNEY believed, had the 10th of
April passed over previous to the introduction of the
measure, they would never have heard of it. He could
(peak, 'its a 'magistrate, that nothing bad come to his
knowledge to afford the 'slightest justification for such
a Bill. •

. .
Lord D. STUART said the Noble Lord had that
night stated incidentally what had never been stated
before, that there were persons in this country plotting
assassination.— (No.)
Lord J. RUSSELL explained that his observation
was in answer to the remark of the Hon. Member for
Manchester, that all foreigners who had come here pre-
vious to the late French revolution had come for the
purposes of trade.
Mr. BRIG LIT—Or as refugees.
Lord J. RUSSELL had interrupted' the Hon. Mem.
ber to say tfoit persons were here before that time who
had been engaged in assassination plots, and had been
compelled to leave their own country in consequence,
and that such persons might become dangerous here
Lord D. STUART was glad to hear this explanation,
for he and others had understood the Noble Lord to say
that there were foreigners in this country plotting
assassination. He would not press his amendment to a
division.

The alteration proposed by Sir G. Grey was then
made, and the clause as altered passed.
The remaining clauses were also agreed to.
Mr. URQUHAR I` proposed the following clauses,
enacting—
" That when and so often as the powers given by this
Act shall be put into execution there shall be laid before
Parliament, without unnecessary delay, a copy or copies
of all informations upon which orders shall have been
issued in accordance with this Act ; together with a
statement of all proceedings which may have been taken
in respect to any alien or aliens against whom the same
may halve been put in force.
" And that, in till cases where naturalisation has the
effect of depriving alien friends of any of their civil
rights in their own country, this Act shall be inopera-
tive, provided that such alien friends, at the time of
their residence in Englind, are engaged in commerce."
Sir G. GREY-opposed the first, stating that Govern-
ment would, in ell cases, be responsible to Pardatuent
and would produce all the information upon any case
required. With ,regard to the second, he did not under-
stand what was meant by "alien frie-nds ;" but as the
Bill stood naturalised foreigners would nut be included
in its operation.
Mr. UIiQUHART explained that he used the word
" friends" as- distinguished from " enemies." In some
cases, as in those of French and American citizens, they
could not be naturalised here without forfeiting all .heir
rights of citizenship in their own country. It was to
such parties that this clause was intended to apply.
The A r I'ORNEY GENERAL could not consent to
a clause which would have the effect or rendering,the
Bill in,perative in respect to all French or American
citizens aho might be engaged in commerce, however
dangerous their residence here might be. If their resi-
dence was. not dangerous to the peace of the country
they would not be removed.
After a few words from Lord D. STUART in favour
of the clauses they were put and negatived without a
division; and the preamble having been agreed to, the
House resumed, and the Bill, with amendments, was or-
dered to be reported.

character, he ought long since to have fully informed
the nation on the subject. This Bill was unlike any
pravieus legislat ve measure ever iiitroduced into this
House—it much more resembled a Ru,sian uka,e; and
if-the Government should be so ill advised and so infa-
tuated as to press it, he hoped there would arise (and
he believed it would arise) such an opposition as would
compel them to retrace their steps. Before ho Con-
cluded he must complain of a publication emanating
from the snb-committee of the Health of Towns Asso-
ciation, which had been circulated among Members of
the House, in order to facilitate the carrying of the
Bill. That publication contained calumnies the most
foul, statements the most unfounded, language the
most unseemly, and propositions the most absurd.
Almost every local board in the country had been
stabb-d in the dark by these anon) mous traducers (tor
the Hanes of the sub-committee were not appended to
the publication); and he called upon the many philan-
thropic metubers of the association to disclaim the work
and to withdraw themselves from it. In the name of the
coustituenctra (.t England he called upon the House not
to pass the Bill, but to postpone it for a few weeks, arid
he pledged himself to bring in a measure which would
meet every object without any objectionable centralising
clause. He denied the necessity of any second Somerset-
house authority He held that this measure would lead
to endless jobbing, and would be to the Government a
temptation against which their integrity would net be
proof, and would be to the liberties of the people a blow
against which their independence would not bear up. He
should take every means in his power to obstruct the
passage of the Bill through the House, and with this view
he now moved, as an amendment, that the Bill be cow •
mated this day six months.
Mr. BANKES seconded the amendment, on the ground
that the preamble contained provisions which actually
exempted the whole of the city of London; and,by implies
tion, a part of the metropolitan district, from the operation
of the Bill. He would not give his consent to a Bill so
framed. He was aware that those who hail framed this
measure knew that it contained objectionable clauses, to
which the attention of the Government had been called
by the authorities of the city of London; and though hi.
would not impute to the Noble Lord who represeeted
that City an undue partiality to his constituents, yet he
would say the Noble Lord's constituents had no greater
right to his especiel attention than had his (Mr. Brake's)
constituents or those of the Hon. Member who had
brought forward this amendment.—(Hear, hear.) With
the Noble Lord all constituencies ought to stand on the
same footing.—(Bear, hear.) If the sill was objection •
able to the citizens of London, it was equally objection •
able to the towns in the county he (Mr. Bailees) repre-
sented; and until there should be presented a Bill which
would be good for all constituencies, he should refuse to
go into Committee. To do so with the present Bill
would be an idle waste of time. Those who sat on
his (Mr. Bankes's) side of the House had often been
charged by the Government with wasting the time
of the House; but it was the Government that caused
it by the form in which they presented and
brought forward their measures, to the principles of
which both sides agreed. If then they prepared Bills
in such a shape, how dared the Government charge him
and those who acted with him with delaying the reme•
dial measures propounded by the Government ? They
themselves created the delay. Look, for instance, at the
present Bill. The Government had actually been com-
pelled to double the letters of the alphabet in order to
designate the number of the clauses they themselves
thought necessary as amendments to a measure origi
nally brought forward fourteen months ago. It would
be in vain to go into Committee on such a Bill. %If itli
such a preamble the Bill could not possibly pass. It
would inevitably be thrown out at last, and then its op-
ponents would be taunted with wasting the public time.
London and the metropolitan districts required a Said
Lary provision mare than any other part of the kingdom.
Look at the chimneys rising around, overtopping the
towers of the new houses, and destroying all vegetation
in their neighbourhood.—(Hear.) Was it not idle., then.
to talk of sanitary improvement if these things were
overlooked ? Even the very air which they, the sena-
tors of the kingdom, had to breathe, was tainted in the
way he had described, and no remedy was proposed for
it.—(Hear, and a laugh ) The Honourable Mover of the
amendment was not quite correct in stating that this
measure was woolly unprecedented. Precedents miato
be found in the time of the Commonwealth, when every-
thing was referred to commissions and commissioners;
hut these were not precedents which ought to be fol
lowed in the present day. He would willingly delegate
to the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests
ail the powers he was inclined to take upon himself; but
would not consent to the appointment of a host of ir-
reaponaible commissioners, of whom the House knew
nothing. lie had the fullest confidence in the unite-
peached honour of the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.)
Let all places in.the kingdom be included in this Bill,
under one responsible head, and then there would b,
no dissatisfaction. The kingdom at large never would
he, nor ought to be, satisfied with the partial tneasur
now proposed; the commissioners to be appointed
under it would become generally unpopular, and befor«
two years had passed the repeal of the Bill would h«-
demanded. The distrust which it implied of local au •
thority was entirely undeserved; they ought only to be
subjected to the imperial supervision of the Govern
ment, which would be as effectual in that case as in that
of the supervision exercised over the magistracy by the
Right Hon. the Home Secretary—a supervision which
was not less effectual from the rare occasions on which it
I was exercised. 'I he delay now proposed would be an
advantage it the Bill was thereby rendered less objec
tionable.

was most important that the rate-payers themselves,
whether in parishes, townships. or other boundaries,
should have the power of originating sanitary pryed"
ings under this Act. That principle had work. d el.'
tremely well in the Inclosure Act, and he had hcped
would have been adopted in the present measure. An°-
ther objectionable point was that power should be given,
not only to repeal all the local Acts, but to revive such
of their provisions as were desirable. This power, in;
vested in the Privy Council, was most unconstitutional;
—(Hear, hear.) As the Bill stood, any fifty inhabitag
householders, without any limitation of boundary, olio„,
originate proceedings under the Bill, and might, if thFl
thought proper, include the whole kingdom in one die
t
trict. This plan could not work satisfactorily. Unless
the Noble Lord would in Committee give tip, that enor-
to
moue mass of patronage which the Bill would gi"
Government, by abandoneig the Cumneissioners, he
oppose the Bill going into Committee; for he looked wale
the greatest j,ilousy on this attempt, after the Govern-
went had !sot hold of all the Lawyers to extend their ea'
ironage to the ,rector:.—(Laught,r.) - fallen
Sir 11. VERNEY concurred in much that hAd
from the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire, but 'he cen f511e:.-
e
tiered that the practical objections to the measure sere
quite susceptible of being removed in Cernmittee•
certainly it would be necessary to modify the propose"
centralization to a very material extent. nag'
Mr. Fazitoy was quite as sensible as any ge
man present of the numerous glaring defects of the tee_
sure, but, at the some time, he thought it Most cons:-
tent with his duty to vote for its committal. It was g
nerally admitted that some reform in our sanitary systein
was neceseare, and he thought that the present, messn
greatly amended, no doubt might meet the ucknowleege
want.
Mr. DIVETT had so decided an objection to the Pria;
ciple of the measure. that he could not sanction its furtnhee
progress. With all due re.pect for the Noble Lord al tot
bead of the Woods and Forests Department, he di" cs.
consider him more especially with his infinite other se° r
tions, at all the man who could properly carry out reheat
sure of this kind, and he was quite as convinced rs,
the country at large would not submit to anearbitetir.
system of centralisation placed in the hands of :ere
Chadwick.—(Hear, hear.) It was his opinion that 11 0
was quite as much danger of jobbing under ten Rs,
under local administration. The brothers, sons, nePhe
sus.
_t
and what not, of Cabinet Ministers had shown themes
selves quite as disposed as other men to that species ee'y
jobbing which consisted in getting hold of as much IT, os)
as possible for as little labour as possible.—(Hetres"etbe
lie denied that any genuine popularity attached eee tole
Bill.—(Hear.) It was quite manifest that the e`
Viscount evinced no aptitude for this particular busirt;.-
at all events, for after withdrawing. one Bill on thi! %Jed
ject, by reason of the general outcry against it, "e vs.
Introduced another which exhibited no sort of ieePru.
went in principle, and little, if any, in detail. was 1
Viscount EBRINGTON contended that there - 00
general dem mil for the measure, and, in particular'
the part of Exeter and other large towns. tbe
Mr. H. DRUMMOND characterised the whole 7;oches
case, got up by interested parties against the loCal ge•
throughout the country, us tull of the grossest eel of
rations. He had an entire objection to that 51°,06
centralisation which was so popular with the PAre„sed
Government, and which, in his opinion, bad Prtee—to
much of the evil which had manifested itself clusture
administration of the new puor-law. The grand
in the measure, in the eyes of gentlemen oa these:3oe
fermi benches, was its proposed appointmente.setant
half dozen commissioners, with secretaries, .assts
ol,plif
secretaries, and inspectors infinite, with indefirsier
out of the consolidated fund,- and with unlimitedPt-ede'
over cities (London) with cautious judgmenteacPileett
(Elear)—towns and counties, streets, squares, anu atid
Houses and cottages, chapels and churches, retesedsle
oavments of all sorts, with powers, in a word, to !les bf
and make with everything and every body, unchec"ctod'
all one but the Noble Viscount opposite and UT,' p coo;
wick—an excellent protection for the country... „1"1".„0t
tended that all that was needed was the appointreeo ei
a single efficient commissioner, under the direct°, the
the Home Secretary, for the purpose, of eieithi„be the
various towns throughout the country, and enforelee
executioe of their duties by the local boards. o lot°
Viseount MORPETH. hoped the House would
ee sly t°
r
Committee on the ill. He shouldpractical be quite jsi
150bsec 0e
take into his considßeration ever,los,
y tion that might he suggested. He would, for 'err ueort
admit that he was by no means indisposed t° ea lloo•
the discussion of the question propounded station s°l
'ember as to the propriety of limiting the de-
oe toe
the commission. He was also quite consCi"S4
many difficulties that surrounded the question °be hid
tary legislation; and he had adopted, as far as, bees
keen able to do so, the various suggestions that "aunt/.
forwarded to him from different parts of the e° that
ile must take the present opportunity of deny lotieri
the powers which were sought fur the commis'' t>
were of that arbi.rary character which bad been std
"uteri to theta. As to the powers given to the It le
of Privy Ccuncil with reterence to the control o!
local boards, they were no more than what 'hadto
reel:tit); c ibpeae had the sett ac I°ol
pcsearnpcetrioantieedeinßriells.pecHteto the local acts Oro,
moreover, to be able to assure the House that: b°,oo
already been made aware of the fact that S 0/
body of the clergy had given their approbation t°oo,
Bill proposed by her Majesty's Government. 'lnes yea
Member for Stafford opposed the Bill; but he he.lesiel
that the Hon. Member's feelings were not partiefr bit
in by his constituents. Ho (Lord Morpeth) held lease
nand a petition from the inhabitants of Stafford, tend
plaining of the wretched sanitary state of that te4cl-
'fbs
Nrn3..g neeisietie. int,..-tcrenoc. Thi. esitl,7D er
signed by all the clergy, all the medical profeseieet jes
cept one, and all the members of the corporative. dbf
proposed this Bill, however, not as one- suprrteno- or
,loctors or clergymen, but as being essentially the roe
man's Bill.—(llear, hear.) He wished to sleY joe'
words flow on the met-vexed question of centralitisotose
Amid here he would say that there was not in thetneesi
it greater friend to a well-arranged municipal aIT sieli
government than he was. He knew hew
he principle of local government and resPche apd
-
were interwoven with our English netiene feted
manners, and he had, thereture, alweYs,
in favour of motions for the extension ofd se&
cipal institutions. But this Bill went to. eXtefl7. jet'
powers not to destroy them. It would give powees;' a 00
ing, draining, and cleansing to 92 towns, which t: 1§„li
such powers, at present, and would secure there s, u
which now had only divided or restricted poWer 000
296 towns which had now no local Aets, and 155 coder
which had only restricted powers, this Bill would ntieg,
'till and complete means of sewage, cleansing, "1,0
and draining. But some central control was 0 tbit
tended. He had already explained his notions °. be"
head, and had thought he had satisfied the 11°U:se:I 11
-ince then, he had been assailed in many clus:r4le
a tempting, as was alleged, to carry the Pr's"-, ill'
centralization too far. He had accordingly trabe,ooo
eis counsels men well acquainted with local rieCife
and had determined on ventral control to this e'eespeeei-
power of revising the boundaries of &evicts, an ,000-1
in cases of dill., renee, and a power of auditing cote
4. here disputes should arise. However, ifaiiiootr°s
inittee objection should be taken to the limited
ay tlll
ne proposed, he should be prepared tc) th:-
uost respectful attention to any stioges",;:eoe:
might be made. Allusion had been made to V";
emanating from the Health of Towns Coneneies`,°4lo•ltied
'
locument was anonymous, and he did notAeis's
o allude to it. His ohji ct was to advance the eeoleei
the people, not to fling foul water on those W sbe°;
differ with him in opinion. A great deal was tee
cs
he rights of Englishmen, but let them take 5-Let `,1,1
,f the lives of ar, hear.) tli"";
douse recollect that while they were legislating' reser]
,ands were dying under the influence of oer Periftell
wretched sewage and drainage; and let the erP PI,
dill which he confidently asserted might be call:rslite
tor protneting the health, the comfort, and the
of the people of England.—(Cheers.) f Se"e
Mr. BUCK asserted that the inhabitants '3- tort!'
had spent 100,000/. on drainage, and were 0%0 tis°,l(
tore, to be stigmatised with having neglected IoZ,
tary condition of their town. He though st't-eat
questions should be left to local control, en" c` ct
expenses of the country should not be increased ise see";
missions which, judging by experience, could °Lifloso)ec
waste and confusion. He should divide on eserY'
tor the appointment of commissions. bighll
Mr. 11. BERKELEY said that the Bill eissiople.,6"
popular with his constituents, and the only caeits °lcs'
was that the city of London was excluded ir,°°3,,'
ration.—(flear, bear.) According to the eli°el3,-00„;
before the Sanitary Commission there was 0° .i 0 titre
the kingdom in a worse state than the metroPoht.it eerf
lle thought the House had a right to know wsbeitri
the plans proposed fur the improvement of Pe be etc
London. In his opinion London ought not' t°,4 Ott
empted from the Act. Not only was its saa,tasete
tied, but i's moral position also. lie should 'of
going into Committee. e old ti;;#
Lord LINCOLN (amid cries of " Divid©) s"spetiltien-af
have made an observation but for the last -1000'di
reference to the metropolis. He was bound, in t,ho 114
and fairness, to state that he was one of those
'
vised the exclusion of the metropolis froln the,beoo,,
Bill with a view to another and a more cotaPrttalir,
measure. With reference to the question of of
tion he should not go into it now, for it did:l4j «rupon this stage, but he should be prepared 10 ":01e
it on a future occasion. At present he should litre')
going into Committee. There was one other rtelocse;
(Shouts of " Oh," amid which the Noble Lord 1517 a
e
Mr. SPOONER, moved the adjournment of Lee
The House divided, when their appeared-es
Ayes
Noes
°i t°
Majority _se- le
Colonel SIBTHeeRP then moved that the:.
now adjourn. b
AO° 0°
Lord J. RUSSELL had hoped when the 0° sbaSen
decided by a large majority to proceed with DI ,4,o.ffiref r.
Curther objection would be offered. .7d 0(00
some Honourable Gentlemen opposite awPee—wssiec.ise
mined to force the House to division after di
ibe tnwi
the question of adjorninent, rather than occug.oure
of the House by dividing he would consent to au./
debate. IN
The debate was accordingly adjourned. De IP
TOBAGO RELIEF AND IMAIGRATIOO.
BRITISH GUIANA AND TRINIV used
The report of the Committee thereon Was r1;40.
and leave to bring in a Bill on the subject was g
The House adjourned at One o'clock.
DIED. ,god lilt
On the 30th ult., Mrs. Chappell, of the 111inoarirfif the
On the 30th ult., at Green-park, Bath, Oct eeri!
of William Taswell, Esq. esoliblecits 001
On the 300 ult., at Cranbourne Lodge, essteseeee
Middlesex, Mary, relict of the late Lietzt"
-
Bt
Alexander Daniel. UjJiv
DO
London: Printed and Published by ikitiß e, p
leo. 112, Strand, Printer, at 7 Ito Sun 0
hge 000
Strand, in the Precinct of the 'Sayan t
Walton, Oaturdaiy, May i, Ig4B. - • •

Lv,,l J. 11TT531211.,T, .L-s O— rift,. Member
who had last spoken had thought fit to have shown t,
the House that a Bill fur the purposes of sanitary im-
provement ought to include the City of Lohdon and the
whole of the metropolitan districts, the House would
have been ready to list( n to any argument on that head.
But the Hon. Member had addressed no argument
whatever to the Hcuse—he had contented himself with
an imputation —(Hear, hear.) It might he wise, ac-
cording to the precedent of the Bill introduced by the
Noble Lord the Member for Falkirk (Lord Lincoln), t
exempt the metropolis from the operation of ►uch ti
Bill ; or it might be a better plan to introduce a Bill si
milar to that of last year, including the whole of the me-
tropolis. The Hon. Gentleman might think one plat.
better than the other, but he left all such reasons un-
touched, and thought it quite unnecessary to urge an)
argument ; relying on the imputation that he (Lord
John Russell) had abused his influence as a Member a
the Government in favour of his constituents.

Mr. BANKFS—I beg your pardon—l expressly ex
eluded you from that charge.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The Honourable Gentleman
certainly said—" The Noble Lord had no right to see
that the representations of his constituents were attended
to while those of Members who represented other large
cities and towns in the kingdom were disregarded."
' Mr. BANKES—I beg leave distinctly to state that I
did not say any such thing, but I said the contrary.—
(Sensation.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Certainly, what struck my ears
was, that the representations of my constituents had
been attended to; and that the representations of the
Henourable Members for the towns in the county 0.
Dorset, and of the Honourable Member for Stafford,
ought to be equally attended to —(Cheera ) lam cer-
tainly very glad to hear that the Honourable Gentleman
meant nothing of the kind.—(Clear, hear.)
Mr BANKES (with great warmth)—l mean to say
that I said nothing of the kind.— (Lauwhier.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—If the Honourable Gentleman
said nothing of the kind, then my earn entirely de-
ceived me.—(Hear, hear.) There were certain sen-
tences, which I imagined I had heard, which it
seems have never been uttered.—(Cheers, and laugh
ter.) However, although I may have entirely mistaken
what my ears corive)ed to me, I do think I miy
be justifii d—having been liable to many attacks in the
course of last year to which I never replied—in stating
what is the course I have taken, which has certainly net
been a very active one upon this subject. I considered
the question eenerally with my Noble Friend (Lord no
pt•eth), last year ; and he said he had come to the deci
sion that the whole of the metropolis ought to U
included in the Bid. I was quite satisfied with that
decision. After the Bill was brought in, some objections
were made to that course. My Noble Friend reconsi
dered the matter, with the persons whom he thought
were best able to advise him. I desired him—which I
am sure he was likely to do—to pay every attention in
ail parts or the subject, to m tke the Bill operate the most
beneficit.lly. The result was that he made many amend-
ments in the Bill, and did come to the determination to
leave out the metropolis.—(hear, hear, skid laughter
from the Opposition benches.) Now, a very few
moments ago I was told that there was no imputation
against me. What am Ito understand from that verb
euiphatie " Hear, hear?"—(Cheers.) Is it meant to be
insinuated, when I say that my Noble Friend told me
that he had come to the determination to leave out the
metropolis, that there must have been some occult in-
fluence behind—(No, no)—that there must have been
some mystery or other in getting the metropolis left out, in
which my constituents must have been concerned? I
will state the only communication which I have had
with any constituent of mine—certainly a very import-
ant person—upon this subject. Last autumn we had a
good deal of consideration, along with the Lord Chan
cellor as to what should be done respecting the metro-
politan commission orsesvers, and we found that the
authority of the Crown enabled us to appoint a new
commission, comprehending a great part of the metro
polis, but that an Act of Parliament stood in the way of
our comprehending the City of London. That Act re-
quired that a commission of sewers should act fair the
City of London only ; and the Lord Chancellor had no
authority in that respect. The Lord Mayor (he was
the important constituent to whom I alluded just now)
desired to see me, and wished to ask whether it was
the intention of Government to include the City of
London, by bringing in a Bill to repeal the Act referred
to, and to include the City of London under the
same commission of sewerage as the rest of the metropo-
lis ? I said certainly it was the intention of Govern-
ment to introduce a Bill for that purpose ; and he said
Very well ; if Government have made up their minds
to introduce such a Bill, all I can tell you is, that we of
the City of London shall give it our most strenuous and
determined opposition."—(Hear, hear.) That has been
the only communication which I have bad with my con
stituenis on the matter ; and if we have not persevered
s toe o tt showed
any e d
in that plan of comprehending the City of London under
the same sewerage commission,
i icsiuny p, aI r tdo
my nutthinkn
u
it
any base subserviency o
(Cheers.) If Hon. Gentlemen think that London and
the metropolitan districts ought to be included in this
Bill, I hope they will condescend to give the House their
reasons for so thinking, rather than to indulge in impu-
tations whicn were made dui iug two months of the last
session, and which have given great amusement and hate
furnished matter for vociferous cheering six weeks of the
present, but which I hope will not be rtpeatea during
this session.— (Cheers.)
Mr. HENLEY objected to a central commission, ox. I
cept for the single purpose of arranging the districts. It