The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-17 00:00:00

TIIE NAVIGATION-LAWS.

Tho order of the day for going into Committee on
this subject having been read,
Mr. Berries, Mr. Newdegate, Lord G. Bentinck, and
Mr. Henley protested against commencing the debate at
so late an hour (half-past ten), when many gentlemen
had left the House, not expecting it would come on.
Mr. Labouchere, Mr. Hume, Mr. Aglionby, Lord H.
Grosvenor, and Lord J. Russell were anxious that the
discussion should proceed; and, after some conversation,
the House divided on the question that the Speaker do
leave the chair, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it

Majority -87
The House then went into Committee, and

The CHAIRMAN having read the first resolution,
Mr. J. STUART cast blame upon the Government for
forcing the house into a discussion upon so important a
subject at half-past ten o'clock. Such a course was
neither decent nor proper, and he must, therefore, move
that the Chairman report progress.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said be must, in return, blame
Hon. Gentlemen opposite for the coursejthey were pur-
suing.—(Hear, hear.) He bagged to remind the House
of the observation lately made by a worthy Alderman,
who said that, however oppokd to the measures of the
Government, the last thing he should consider himself
justified in doing was to throw any obstacle in the way
of the consideration of, those measures, it being most
im-
portant to the great interests concerned that the deci-
sion of Parliament should be known as speedily as pos-
sible.—(Hear, hear.) It should be recollected, also, that
these resolutions were only preliminary to a Bill.
Alderman THOMPSON did not repudiate the ob-
servation attributed to him; but a great many Hon.
Gentlemen opposed to the resolutions having left the
House—(Cries of " Oh, oh")—under the impression
that they would not be brought forward that night, he
must support the motion for reporting progress.—(Oh.)
Lord C. HAMILTON would also support that motion,
as he recollected no case of similar importance being
forced upon the House at so late an hour.
Mr. HUME urged upon the House that the present
stage of the question was only preliminary.
Mr. BROTHERTON said that it had been agreed
some time time since that these resolutions should be
passed as a matter of course—(" Hear, hear," and cries
of " No, no ")—and he could not denominate the present
opposition as otherwise than factious. It such an oppo-
sition had been given to the Government of Sir R.
Peel, there would have been a general outcry to the
effect that they were stopping the business of the
country.—(Hear, hear.) His belief was that Hon.
Gentlemen opposite had determined that the Govern-
ment should not pass any measure this session, and
then at the end of it ask in a tone of censure what had
been done? The answer would be what the Speaker
said to Queen Elizabeth when she asked him what her
Commons had passed, namely, that they had passed six
months and done nothing.—(A laugh.) He never knew
a session so characterised by useless discussions as the

present.
Mr. ROBINSON said his answer to the Hon. Gentle-
man's rebuke was, that her Majesty's Government were
responsible for bringing forward at so late a period of
the session a question which had been particularly men-
tioned in the speech from the throne. He should offer
every opposition in his power, even at the risk of its
being called factious.—(lronical cheers.)
Mr. HENLEY supported the motion for reporting
progress.
Mr. RICARDO considered it most important that the
details of the measure should be before the public as
soon as possible. This was most essential for the in-
terests of trade and all parties affected by the naviga-
tion-laws.
Mr. HUDSON said he believed that the Hon. Mem-
ber for Stoke did not speak the sentiments of the ship.
owners of England, who thought that delay would be
of great value to them, as they conceived that the effect
of the public knowing the intentions of the Govern-
ment would be to disabuse the public mind. He thought
that the minority had a right to take that course which
they thought most wise, provided they did not abuse
the forms of the House.—(lronical cries of " Hear.")
Considering the delay, for which the Government
were responsible, in introducing the measure, they
ought to be the last persons to complain of it now. Ile
asked the lion. Member for Salford, and the lion. Mem-
ber for Montrose, whether they ever recollected a mea-
sure of this importance being introduced at so late a
period of the session, with any prospect of its being
passed ? He had hoped that the President of the Board
of Trade would have announced that he meant to lay
the Bill on the table, and take no further steps this ses-
sion. The Hon. Member proceeded, amidst repeated
cries of " Question" and " Divide," to observe that he
believed that the Government bad had no serious or
honest intention of bringing in the Bill, and would not
have taken the matter up if it had not been for the
impulse they received from the Right Hon. Member
for Oxford (Mr. Gladstone) and other Members on the
Opposition side of the House. He should like the Pre-
sident of the Board of Trade now to say when the Bill
would be introduced. Who asked for the measure ?
The Honourable Member for the West Riding of York-
shire, who assumed to represent the whole of Yorkshire,
though he did not, said that the whole people of England
desired the measure. Where were the petitions in its
favour? He appeared there in behalf of the shipwrights,
the sail-makers, the rope-makers, and other mechanics
of Sunderland, who would be thrown out of employment
if the present measure passed.—(Cries of " Question.")
He wished the Noble Lord would keep his friends a
little quieter.—(Laughter.) He was speaking closely to
the question, and he could inform the House that he had
been informed the other day that a large mass of these
workmen were about to be discharged from their. em-
ployment. He understood that the Hon. Member for
the %Vest Riding bad called upon the Chancellor of
the Exchequer and asked relief for the people of Brad-
ford in their distress, and was refused. If this was
not correct, perhaps the Hon. Member would contradict
it; but, if it was true, he wished to know if he would
apply for the people of Sunderland when they were
thrown idle by this measure.—(Cries of "Divide.") It
would throw 20,000 people out of employment; and yet
he was met with cries of " Question" when he stood
up to advocate the interests of those parties, and
was accused of factious conduct. The truth was, he
was advocating the rights of the poor.—(" Oh, oh !"
and laughter.) He had given to the poor the means of
getting employment to a greater extent than had fallen
to the lot of many men ; and on this question he was
actuated by the same principle that had guided him
through life, and would not cease to contend against
the measure, as vicious in its character and adverse to
the interest of the poor, and also because her Majesty's
Government had been goaded on to it.—(" Oh, oh I"
and " Divide.") It was, no doubt, part and parcel of
their free-trade principle; but he should yet to live to
see a great revulsion of opinion on the question of free
trade.—(" Oh, oh !") In conclusion he would repeat
that it was his intention to give every possible opposition
to this measure.—(" Divide ! divide !")
Mr. SANDARS said an Hon. Gentleman had spoken
of factious opposition, but he hoped the imputation was
not meant to be cast upon him. He had voted in the
majority the other night, but would vote in the mino-
rity now, because he thought it was too late to bring
forward the question ; and he was anxious, as he knew
other Gentlemen were, to express his views on the
subject.
Mr. HUME wished to enter his protest against a prac-
tice which was indulged in by certain Hon. Gentlemen
of making constant personal allusions to other Members
of the House.—(Hear.) After 30 years' experience he
must say that he had never known any Hon. Member
come down after dinner, night after night, flushed—he
would not say with champagne---(Great laughter, and
cries of " Order.") The Hon. Member opposite (Mr.
Hudson) would excuse him for saying that the personal
allusions he was accustomed to make were very unfair.
Night after night the Hon. Member for the West Riding
and himself were called upon by name as often as
twenty times in the course of a speech. Now, he did
not think this was fair.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
It was breaking through the rules of the House, and
he would appeal to Honourable and Right Hon. Mem-
bers opposite whether it had ever been the practice
to act in such a manner.—(Cheers.) The question had
been asked of him if ever he saw a measure of such im-
portance brought forward at so late a period. Now, he
certainly should have liked to see the measure brought
forward earlier; but ho did not see that that was any
good reason for not considering it now. The Hon.
Member for Sunderland had asked where were the peti-
tions for this measure; but he had forgotten that a public
petition was agreed to at Sunderland in its favour, and
these laws
the
that the workmen carried a resolution for the repeal of
win
his
orwionnboeurroaube Memberglh.—(Alaugohu.g)htlnnotht those
circumstances
speak of a want of petitions on the subject. What he
had risen to say, however, was, that he wished the debate
to go on without the use of personal allusions.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUDSON wished to say a word in explanation.
—(Cries of " Divide," and " Spoke.") Perhaps the
Hon. Gentlemen who cried " Spoke" and " Question"
thought the Hon. Member for Montrose was speaking to
the question when he told them about the champagne
that had been drunk.—(Great laughter.) He had not
been 40 minutes away from the House the whole evening.
—(Laughter.) The Hon. Member for Montrose, how-
ever, following the example of the Hon. Member for
Salford, who valued character as little as any man could
do, had thrown something like a reflection upon him ;
and perhaps, considering the time of life that Hon. Gen-
tleman had reached, a young man like him (Mr. Hudson)
might very well receive advice at his hands.—(More
laughter.) The Hon. Member seemed to have drawn
some inference from the dress in which he appeared (here
the Hon. Gentleman, with a good-humoured smile,
pointed, amid much laughter, to his white waistcoat), but
the truth was, that he had gone home to accompany his
family to another party.—(Roars of laughter.) Whether
he wore a white waistcoat or a waistcoat of any other
colour hall nothing to do with the present debate.—

' (" Question.") When Hon. Members called " Question,"
they ought to recollect that he (Mr. Hudson) had never
attacked the Hon. Member for Montrose on account of
his wearing a white waistcoat or attempting to look a
little gay. Whenever he attacked the Hen. Member fur
Montrose—or, rather, when he attacked the speeches of
that Hon. Gentleman—he did so upon public grounds.
Public principles and public conduct were the objects of
his attack. He never even referred to such things as the
Greek loan, but, on the contrary, confined himself to
more legitimate subjects.
Captain ELLIOT rose to order. It appeared to him
that the Hon. Member for Sunderland was addressing
himself to the Hon. Member for Montrose in a manner
too personal. He ought to address the chair.
Mr. HUDSON resumed—He had all along been ad-
dressing the chair. He had been saying that whenever
he made any observations upon the conduct of the Hon.
Member for Montrose he had strictly confined himself
to the public conduct of that Hon. Gentleman, and as to
what he had said about a chairman or a deputy-chair-
man, he must be permitted to observe that he merely
quoted what he had seen in the public papers. If the
Member for Montrose would repudiate those statements
that night, he (Mr. Hudson) would never say another
word on the subject; and, at all events, he should never
.charge the Hon. Member for Montrose with having
dined out, or with ever having given a dinner to a
friend.—(" Hear, hear," and laughter.)
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none
at that time took place; on the contrary, the debate
was continued, and several Hon. Members spoke,
amongst whom (as we understood) was the Hon. Mem-
ber for the West Riding of Yorkshire. On our re-ad-
mission,
Mr. DISRAELI was saying that he heard the Hon.
Member for the West Riding accused of stimulating as-
sassination, and that accusation was echoed with frensied
applause.—(Hear, hear.) The person who made the ac-
cusation offered an humble apology to the Hon. Gentle-
man, and therefore he did not despair but the Hon.
Gentleman might yet regret that he introduced too
stern a spirit into the discussion, and perhaps make an
humble apology to the Hon. Member for Sunderland.
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion .............. 48
Against it 144
Majority —96
Lord G. BENTINCK moved that the Chairman do
leave the chair.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site had certainly succeeded in their object of obstruct-
ing the Bill; but whether the time of the House could
not be better employed, and whether the discussion which
had taken place would redound to the credit of the
House, he would leave the House itself to determine.—
(Cheers.) At that hour he would not oppose the motion
of the Noble Lord.
Mr. DISRAELI denied that there had been any fac-
tious opposition to the Bill.
Lord G. BENTINCK said that the discussion was
caused by the Noble Lord the Member for Middlesex,
who had some time since retired to bed.
Lord J. RUSSELL said his Noble Friend would
have remained if the discussion which had taken place
was a discussion on the navigation-laws. But seeing
how the time of the House was wasted—(Loud cheers)
—he thought his Noble Friend acted wisely in retiring.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought that the blame of the de-
sultory discussion which had occupied the House lay
with the Government itself.
Lord G. Bentinck's amendment having been then with-
drawn, the Chairman reported progress, and obtained
leave to sit again.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
Lord J. RUSSELL postponed his motion for a Bill to
repeal the ratepaying clauses of the Reform Bill until
Friday next.
The Prisons Bill was read a second time.
The Appeals on Civil Bills (Ireland) Bill was re-
ported.
The Commons Inclosure Bill was read a third time
and passed.
The Sunday Trading Bill was read a third time and
passed.