The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-26 00:00:00

TEE GMASGOW onAND 3177aCTXON 11A17.-•

BOU TERMINUS.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. David Stevenson, civil engineer, was shortly examined in
corroboration of Mr. Gale and Mr. Miller, when
Mr. CARBOL announced that his case was closed. lie had several .
other witnesses to call respecting the value of the land ; but, Sc defe-
rence to the Committee, he would-not call them then. Should any-
thing arise out of the case on behalf of Sir John Maxwell, he hoped
the Committee would allow him to can acme of them on that point.
Mr. TALBOT then replied to the case of the Grand Junction at
some length, contending that its promoters had failed altogether in
making out their case, and especially in showing the necessity of
bringing the mineral traffic on to the same quay with the general
traffic. The parties who had been called on this point had admitted
that they were not much acquainted with the management of har-
bour traffic, yet the little evidence they gave, instead of
proving the point sought to be established, had actually
strengthened the scheme for which he had the honour of appearing.
The Learned Gentleman then glanced at the engineering evidence
adduced, showing its demerits In comparison with the Harbour
Mineral scheme, and concluded by maintaining the decided supe-
riority of the latter over the Grand Junction.
Mr. Sergeant MURpla then proceeded to open the case en behalf of
Sir John Maxwell, who petitioned against the Grand Junction
scheme, on the ground that it had seriously damaged his property.
The Learned Gentleman was about entering into particulars when
the Chairman directed the room to be cleared. _

On our re-admission the CHAIRMAN intimated that the Committee
bad decided the preamble of the Grand Junction Bill was not proved,
and, therefore, there was no necessity for Mr. Sergeant Murphy to
proceed in his opposition to it.
Mr. TALBOT then replied on the part of the General Terminus
scheme, going over the evidence as bearing on the respective merits
of the two schemes. AU the evidence that had been adduced on 1y:-
ballot the Grand Junction and the General Terminus, he contended,
wont to show that it would be highly advantageous for the mineral
traffic to be brought as near as possible. to the general traffic
without incommoding this harbour. The General Terminus accom-
plished this in the most satisfactory manner. The Learned Gentlemen
then reviewed the evidence on beludf of the two schemes now to be de-
cided on by the Committee, in opposition to Capt. Washington, who
had given evidence from a mere casual visit to Glasgow, there was
the authority of the River Trust, the Conservators of the river, Mr.
Walker, the eminent engineer, and the leading traders and commercial
gentlemen of Glasgow, all of whom were in favour of the general ter-
minus. It was not only the best schethe for its mode of connexion with
the river, but in an engineering point of view, or in the matter of tolls,
it was to be preferred to its rival. The Learned Gentleman, after
dwell in; in detail on these points, submitted the Bill for which he
appeared to the favourable consideration of the Committee—if one
Bill was to be only allowed—as that which was most likely to meet
all the purposes tl)r which a line of railway was proposed.
The room was then cleared for the decision of the committee.
On our return the Chairman intimated that the Committee had
decided that the preamble of the General Terminus Bill was proved,
but that the preamble of the Harbour Mineral was not proved.
Mr. Sergeant Andrews then opened the case briefly for the West of
fcotland Junction Railway, at the close of which the Committee
adjourned at five o'clock till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

'GROUP XII.
GLASGOW, PAISLEY, ILIZIVIARNOCR, AND
ATI!. (BRANCHES TO I.I.I.INIPITS AND LEF7.
2YZAHAGOW), AND OPPOSITION BCH:SWIM.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. John Brown, provost and builder, stated that the inhabitants
of Kilmarnock were in favour of the line.
The Earl of Eglinton spoke to the wishes of the district for a
direct line. The one under consideration would greatly aid the
development of the mineral fields, which were at present locked fur
want of that accommodation.
Mr. Archibald Finney, coal-master, said that the opening up of
this line would be a great benefit to himself and other masters in
Ayrshire.
Mr. Crum, Thornlie Bank, proved the amount of coal consumed in
their works. The average quantity was 20,000 tons per annum. The
proposed line would be a great accommodation.
Jr. Brown, landowner, proved the benefit which the proposed line
would confer on the town of Stewarton.
The Committee then adjourned.

GROUP XIV.
THE NORTH /CENT.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.

Is Sir T. Wilson's confidential agent. Is aware that Sir T. Wilson
offsred to agree to the.line, on certain conditions, last year, but is
not aware of such an engagement this year. Sir T. Wilson has never
told him anything referring to that proposed agreement. The main
line passes nearer to Sir T. Wilson's property this year than it did
last. There is 150 yards difference in the plan of this year and the
plan of last year. The line is to pass to the south side of the house,
and the house looks due west. The line will nut run where the deer
are at present. With regard to the wall spoken of, being on the edge
of the park, nothing has been done for the last two or three years.
The park contains about 120 acres of land. There are some build-
ings on the land, which were occupied at Michaelmas last. They
are occupied by a young woman, who opens the gate, a groom, and
a laundry-maid. The railway will pass near the rectory, in a cut-'
ting twenty-seven feet deep. That will hide the train but not the
smoke, noise, and steam. It will also pass the houso belonging
jointly to Sir T. Wilson and Mr. Itoupel on an embankment. The
embankment is on Mr. Roupel's land, and cannot be seen from the
hall door of the house. It can be seen from tha state apartments.
There is some land belonging to Mr. Roupel between the proposed
embankment and the house. Caanot say whether that land is laid
out for the perpose of building. Never made any practical expert
ments to ascertain whether the proposed embankment could be seen
from the state apartments.
By the Cilia-ant s—The proposed embankment will be much below
the level of Sir T. Wilson's house.

By Mr. Sergeant WaazzonAst—With regard to the house lately
occupied by Sir T. Hislop, only a very small portion indeed belongs
to Mr. Roupel. All the out offices and stabling belong to him.
Re-examined by Mr. Rata Loos—The dining-room of the house
spoken of has been enlarged, and the enlargement has been built out
on M. Ronpel's land, so that is his claim to part of the house
Mr. J. Davis, superintendent of the works at Charlton House—
Agrees with the last witness as to the injury the line would cause to
Sir T. Wilson's land. The damage would be caused by the line
cutting through the portion of land desired by Sir T. Wilson, as an
addition to his park, awl the cutting through the "Buil Pits." Sir
T. Wilson has been at some considerable expense to divert the main
road from the portions of land spoken of. Has received instructions
from Sir T. Wilson to build a wall round the park. lies taken levels
the ground where the, embankment is to be raised, and is con-
NI that it can be seen from the upper portion of Sir T. MlSan's

house. Arthur Drummond, examined by Mr. PaCKARDS, stated
l'lie L._ b adkment would be visible from his house. Even if the
that the ei eel, to the Parliamentary line, it would be objectionable.
parties adhe
The Rev. r. Delamero stated that there was portion or land
on the west side e'f IVoolivich which had been apportioned by Sir T.
of a church. The proposed line erns exactly
Wilson for the buileneee
the ground, rendering it unfit for the purpose
through the centre m.
'es
trict is 30,000, and they have no church ac-
The population of the e
ee, There is no other site where a church could
counnodation whatev
be built.
By Mr. Sergeant Waseeneue—The subscriptions for the church
are not stopped by tho railway passing through the ground. Does
not think that there is any tenter site so convenient for the church.
Mr. Rtexsens here stated that his ease was closed, and inquired
whether the North: Kent Railway intended to call witnesses in answer?
Mr. Sergeant Wa fleransm said that they did rot.
Mr. RICKARDS then proceeded to address the Committee at some
length on the evidence that had been adduced oa the part of Sir T.
Wilson. At the conclustec pf his address
Mr. Meneweeiten. (who ap7lcared in support of a petition against
the proposed line by Captain Dr, ke) then called
Mr. Charles Smith, a surveyor. ;2e stated that ho was acquainted
with Captain Drake's property in the pellet of St. Deptford.
The property has been in Captain Smith's Nally for a considerable
period. Has observed the intended ceurso of fete line across it. A
great many houses have recently been built near tee land. The pro-
perty of Captain Drake only came into his possession in 1843 or 1844.
The property was held jointly by Captain Drake and his family, and
witness, at the request of all parties, divided the land between them.
The extent affected by the line is about 130 acres. If Captain Drake
were offered GO,OOOl. for the land, witness M advise him not to
take it. Pa: t of it abuts on the high road oiweowisham aild that makes
the land possess adeitional value. The projected line runs almost
parallel to the turnpike road and severs portion
dof the
land from the high road. Witness has even been front
letting a considerable portion of land in consequence
Person named
of the line being
projected. Apart of the ground is leased to a
Would lile ißy Mr. Sergeant eIWRANGHAM—Ther is a brielkon hear the Myers.
pro-
perty, but it is separated by a very arge fled.
neighbourhood of the railway, but does not like it to run through- the
property.
Arr. sergeant WRANGHAM—That is, you would like the line to
through somebody else's property but not yours ? (Laughter.) run
Witness—Exactly so. Ilan spoken with Mr. Tite about leaving
the case to arbitration, but insisted on the Company admitting the
land to be building land. Mr. Tile would not do to on the part or
the Company. Witness told him that he coul
ve a d not listen to any
offer of compensation unless the Company ga very handsome
ornanientel bridges. The
approach by one or two expensive arcs,
land is at present garden ground allele t s productive as any ground
near the metropol s. There is a lefeltr farrn-house on the land called
the Manor farm." Nevertiall any definotive offer of reference.
oes not remember any titfer or having a barristerarlitrator. If
ouch an offer were merle now cannel say that hew ould have the
power to accept it.
Mr. Sergeant WRANGIIAM said, that as he underetcod:thnt his friend
had done with his case, he would say that the promoters of the Bill
swere quite willing to refer the whole matter to arbitration hi any way
that might meet the views of the parties.
air. RicK4tDs said that his Learned Friend made tilts proposition
as Mr. Smith had declared that he had not the power to accept it,
and he therefore wished to prejudice Captain Drake in the eyes of the
Committee by offering to do what was fair when there was no person
present who could dee:de on the matter of acceptation or rejection.
The CHAIRMAN intimated that the Committee were entirely of
opinion that the case was one for compensation.
fir. EICKARDS then proceeded to produce evidence in support of a
petition from Lerd Dartmouth, at Blackheath, against the proposed
line, and called
Mr. Fred. Thin, a surveyor and land agent, who stated that he is
agent to Lord Dartmouth. The line runs past Dartmouth'House and
the house of Mr. Newdegate, the brother of Lord Dartmouth. It
also rues past the house occupied by the vicar of Lewisham and the
house of the Ladies Legge, the sisters of Lord Dartmouth. The line
passes sixty yards from Dartmouth, and enters a tunnel just op-
posite the house. There is also a cutting leading to the tunnel ;
understands that the tunnel is to go compltely under Blackheath.
It will be a very considerable annoyance to the inmates of the house.
After emerging front the tunnel the line goes close to two houses
caned the Windmill Menses, which are the property of Lord Dart-
mouth. The vibration of the trains would injure the houses, and

the tunnel would dry up the wells' from which they obtained their
water.
By Mr. Sergeant Waesouva—The houses called the " Windmill
Houses" might have cost about 1,5001. each building. Cannot say
whether they are called " Windmill Houses," from their being built
on the etc of Jack Cade's Mill. Could see the cutting from the
lower windows of Dartmouth House, but could not see the tunnel.
It being four o'clock, the Committee here adjourned.

GROUP XV.
The Committee met at twelve o'clock in the Bail Court, present
Mr. O'Connell, chairman, Sir R. Price, Captain Hatton, lan gind-

ley, and Mr. Mackinnon.

DOGNOR AN%) CHXCIIESTER.
The CHATMLN begged to know from the counsel, what had been
the result of the re-examination of the levellings, whether the fact of
error was admitted.
Mr. J. J. JOHNSON said error was admitted, but he preferred giving
the details in evidence.
Mr. Rastrick's examination being continued, he said he had sent
down his resident engineer, Mr. Cox, and also Mr. Gregory, to test
the surveys in the neighbourhood of Chichester.
Cross-examined by Mr.JouxsoN—ln crossing the Felph am LeTel,the
Brighton Company's rail, by agreement, since coming into Committee.
would pass over the embankment. The consequence of that
an d t agre
he
e-
ment would be a variation from the deposited sections,
gradient there would be linBo in a stretch of 243 feet. lie ad-
mitted that would be a severe gradient. On the projected Chi-
chester line, at the point four miles and eight furlongs going to
Chichester, the gradient was one in 11,444, which would give 5 4-10
inches in a mile. At the fifth mile the deviation of his own surveys
from those of the Chichester Company would be 14 feet. At the
canal basin, taking the datum line and the turnpike-road, the va-
riation from the sections was 13 feet, and the sections proposed
raising the road three feet, which would make the variation 1G feet.
Stopping short of the basin and the road the variation was 14 feet.
On being asked whether it had not occurred in his practice that he
had constructed only part of a line, of which plans had been de-

posited,
Mr. HILL objected to the question, as Mr. Rastrick was not an en
ginger of standing orders.
It was admitted by the Committee and Counsel, that caalesses
washad
occurred in which this liberty was given ; the South W
instanced.
The CHAIRMAN here intimated that the position of parties before
the Committee, was that Mr. Rastrick's evidence was uncontradicted.
Mr. J. J. JOHNSON said he was sorry to have to admit that he
was not in a condition to contradict it.
The CHAIRMAN said he had laid the case before the Speaker of the
House, whose opinion was, that the error being found to be fact,
would be fatal to the Bill before the Select Committee. The Speaker
1 had referred to his (the Chairman's) opinion, and he, after consulting
the standing orders, concurred with the Speaker, whose decision
would always have great weight with him.
Mr. JOHNSON said, notwithstanding what had occurred, he felt
that he ought to address the Committee on the merits of his own
line, and the demerits of the line he opposed. He had hoped that
the Chichester line might have been constructed even on the
plans deposited, bat he had himself discovered that it crossed
a turnpike-road with a cutting of four feet, which was
not permitted by the standing orders. As it was, there-
fore he could not hope to have the Bill passed for the present
session. He said he had proved by the evidence brought before the
Committee that four-fifths of the landed property were represented
by gentlemen in favour of the line, and that the popular feeling in
both towns was strong in favour of the same line. Considering,
therefore, this strong feeling, and that the obstruction which had
unexpectedly occurred was a mere technical difficulty, to which
any man of science was open, ho thought there was still
the question before the Committee, the alternative whe-
ther they would adopt the one line or the other ; for, al-
though he was not in a position to construct his line, yet he
would ask the Committee to reject the other line, that both lines
Might meet pari passu on a fair field, and at another time. The
Learned Gentleman then adverted to the character of the evidence
given on the other side, and concluded with hoping that the Com-
mittee, considering the connexion with London by Guildforl, which
would, no doubt, be made a direct route, connecting the towns in the
west with the metropolis, who ware urgent to be accommodated with
locomotion, but which would be denied them if the other line were
granted them—that the Committee would decide that the other Bill
should not be passed.
The CHAIRMAN intimated that the Southampton branch must at
lest be granted.
Mr. Rows addressed the Committee against the Brighton Com-
pany's branch. on behalf of the Duke of Richmond, Lord George
Lennox, and the landowners, and called,
Mr. Stapely, who said that the pasture land passed through which
rail from woodgate would be injured by the lying water, c
of Lord George
the railway
Lennox
could not get off. The gardens
were sometimes flooded by the sea where
passed, which would of course choke up
the drainage.
Mrs. Smith's residence would be seriously interfered with,
by the station at Bogner. It was not a country villa but a mansion,
which could accommodate 500 at a time ; and the Duke of Cam-
bride and the nobility frequently visited there. The view of the
mansion to the sea would be interfered with. The place contemp-
lated for a station was brook land, which lay under the sea every
winter.
Examined by Mr. NEALE (for Mr. Clark, a proprietor near Bognor)
—The flooding on the field numbered 32 was twice as deep as 12 feet.
A dock, as proposed by Mr. Clark, and a sea-wall, would be a great
advantage to Bognor.
The CHAIRMAN intimated here that the Committee were of opinion
that they could not allow the Company to stop short on Mr. Clark's
land of the station laid down on the sections without Mr. Clark's
consent, and, therefore, the counsel's attention would be confined to
the terminus in Bognor.
The Committee pressed that the case of Mr. Clark might be settled
by arbitration, but the counsel refused any compromise, and pro-
ceeded to call evidence to show the value of the land in question for
building on.
Mr. Galloway said he made surveys in last September at Mr.
Clark's request preparatory to a dock being constructed. He ad-
vised the projected line of railway to terminate on different property
from Mr. Clark's. Plans were prepared for the docks with a view to
going to Parliament.
Mr. Brown, solicitor, said he got up the company for the railway
projected by Mr. Clark, previous to the publishing of the prospectus
Mr. Rastrick agreed to become engineer, and his name was published
accordingly in the prospectus. He laid the thing before the Brighton
board, and they were pleased with his report. Afterwards, on call-
ing at Mr. Rastrick's for the plans which had been sent up, Mr. Ras-
trick said the Brighton Company had elected to make the line them-
selves. He called to see the Brighton board, bat did not get
admission-200'. expenses had been incurred.
Mr. Baker, Parliamentary agent,:was examined as to the line pro-
jected by Mr. Clark. Ills expenses ameunted to 3001., of which he
had recovered nothing.
The CUAIaMAN here took the liberty of suggesting that, as far as
it appeared to the Committee on evidence, the Brighton Company
ought to see Mr. Baker and Mr. Brown as to compensation for their
professional expenses.
Mr. limn said the Brighton directors were interested in the state-
ments made in evidence, for they were prepared to deny them if the
Committee thought it necessary ; but as men of honour, and as hav-
ing generosity, they were prepared to submit to the arbitration of a
gentleman on the subject. Mr. Hill suggested that one of the Com-
mittee might act in the case.
Mr. HINDLEY consented to arbitrate as to the compensation proper
to ke allowed to the two gentlemen.
Mr. NEALE, having examined Mr. Terrell, rose to address the
Committee, when
The CHAIRMAN reminded him that the Committee could not award
compensation, and suggested that it was unnecessary to address
them, for their mind was that the Bill ought to be reported, proved,
and passed.
Mr. NEALE felt it to be his duty to his client to address the Com-
mittee, and proceeded to do so, asking them not to pass the Bill
without a clause prohibiting the railway from going through Mr.
Clark's land without his consent, and instanced the case of Mr. God-
son, M.P., who had got a similar clause in similar circumstances.
The Committee then decided that the preamble of the Bill for the
London and Brighton (Bognor and Littlehampton branches) was
proved.
The several clauses of the Bill were read and passed.
31r. NEALE moved the insertion of a clause prohibiting the Com-
pany from entering on Mr. Clark's land without his consent.
The Committee decided against the clause.

GROUP XVI.
EPSOM:

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
In his cross-examination Mr. floss replied, that on the opening
of the meeting the Chairman had intimated that the meeting was ex-
pressly called for those who were favourable to the branch of the
South-Western Company, and that discussion of the merits would be
deprecated. No other meeting had been called, and the reason he
believed why this discussion had been avoided was, because it might
have occasioned unpleasantness, but could be productive of uo good.
The meeting was attended by from fifty to sixty persons, several of
whom were not Epsom people. He had not heard that a petition had
been presented, signed by upwards of 200 individuals ; but he be-
lieved that the inhabitauts generally were favourable to the South
Western project. The traffic he presumed had increased since 1844,
as the tolls had been let for 1601. more last year than in the year
before; but he could not say whether the intercourse with
London would support two lines. Two coaches had
certainly been taken off the road, but there was one which
instead of coming to London, was employed in running between
Epsom and the Kingston station on the South-Western Line, and he
conceived that the formation of the Chichester and Brighton branch
would take off much of the usual Epsom traffic to Arundel, Worthing,
and other places in that direction. Of the traffic to the West-end he
knew nothing; nor could he say what was the population of the dis-
trict through which the branch was to pass.
To Mr. ELLIOTT (who appeared for the South-Western Company)
Mr. Goss replied that he knew nothing of the petition presented on
behalf of the South- Western Company, but he believed that the im-
pression of the inhabitants of Epsom was decidedly in favour of the
Waterloo-bridge terminus.
To the CHAIRMAN, the witness said, that for the public the two
lines would be better than one from Epsom.
Captain blontrain, a magistrate at Ewell, testified to the same
effect, and especially spoke to the advantage to be derived to the
poor in the reduction in the price of coal by the formation of this
line. He also corroborated Mr. Goss's evidence as to the respect-
ability of the petitioners in favour of the South-Western branch.
Mr. Palmer, M.P., gave similar testimony, expressing a great in-
disposition to use the atmospheric system, and said that he had
never seen an atmospheric carriage in action. It was his impression
that the branch would open a considerable business with Kingston,
and that pert et the country.
Sir Thomas Weeding, a magistrate, residing at Malden, thought
this branch would be of service in bringing lime from Ashden for the
farmers, a manure of which the ground was much in need. Ho con-
firmed the evidence of the previous witnesses as to the probable ad-
vantages of the line to the country, and the feelings of the inhabitants
respecting it. Maldon is about a mile at present from the main line of
the South-Western Ral.way, but the branch was proposed to run
through Malden, and would pass through one of his farms for three-
quarters of a mile. The parish comprised about 1,200 acres, and
this branch was necessary to enable the farmers to keep their heads
above water. He made a personal sacrifice to get the railway, be..
cause he believed it would be for the advantage of his neighbours
generally.
alr. F. Garner, who holds Coomb Farm, which comprised.7oo
acres, under the Duke of Cambridge, expressed a belief that rs many
its 15,000 acres would be benefited by the railway. He himself used
about 600 tons a year. Now it required a whole day to fetch
a waggon load of chalk, and it cost about 101. an acre to dress the
land with chalk. If the railway were made they would be able to
have four loads a day instead of one, and the expense of carriage
would not be more than one-fourth of what it is at present. If lie
could, however, obtain it in this way he would use at !east 1,200 tons

in a year.
To Mr. ALEXANDER'S cross-examination the witness replied that
he did not expect to derive this advantage until the railway was
made as far as Asliden ; and on re-examination by Mr. Hope, he
stated that if the lime was put on the rail at Epsom lie would get
all the advantages which he anticipated. There were, however,
chalk-pits at Epsom itself, about half a mile from the proposed
railway.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.