The Sun.
London, England, 1846-01-28 00:00:00

firai rciaxatien or these duties.—(llear, hn ar.) That is my
hence ; I see something of this already at wore' in
.
tthheeri:t.st accounis frons the United States, notwithstanding
ii°unare some indications of a hostile twilit in
Look
trY. I see something of that spirit at work.
ti'lreii,sta.nce at the report lately made by the Secretary of
United States.—(llear hear.) That shoastirsea!
the example is not altogether unavailing. In that
Port Mr. Walker states, that in the conflict of op:
P°,.„sing tariffs they sacrificed the interests of the co
(7creen agriculture, and navigation of their,
e°l..,lntry,
As -well might they impose monarchic,: i
4tl" aristocratical institutions upon their Govel n-
rileeht. Let commerce (he says) be as free and as
e "Pendent as our Governmeet, and advises them to
nationP thei ports to all the world, and nation aftericso..
would then follow their example.— (Cri •_..._t wiltean, hear.") And if the question should be as ed
tone:;hailtl le gi,n
answered ewr'rk n
('ln'fe venesa'ywsi)"; restric-
thatbtl;esethef'iset
r, Erigler4 had w already abolished the . duties
;tin n:Lost of their exports: they had reduced their duty •
bread stude,
Di,,, ;'••-, importation of cotton, on
~,tt
of
jes"v"i(ins, and other articles. The r, ducts.
ill.
~..0 tariff (he adds) would lead to ,
vitdretsast:sdicratnotpt of revenue. Here, then, Sira,nis the
yoti n Ulu you have set the.
ertieesupon your
example—that
reduced the amount of duties
re. littiir of import and export, wiLhoet "nyp
I rill? engagement with any other Government.
opeeacege've Yon more examples—l can give a country,o
erlie-c'' as a country can be to the United States, nt
~.
ni,
intercourse,eoinutuin
s 'tensing liberal views. I must say, in justice to l
Ilenrcign rho now rules over that ceuntry, that
tains-
iee,"ve seen documents written by
opeitznth respect to freedom of commerchisli
feetti ris as liberal as could come from. any
esgi, c'r• --- (Hear.) That Sovereign is constantly
'tee g a relaxation of all commercial a duties,v..
I d
sole . 0 not despair that at
._„ct. . very
t
his wishes will be carried into e,frsame-aex_
ateele sh°wing an inclination to follow th:_. ..)
.__l., _
de l'ioi end also other couluries.—(Hear,hcar.
o,Sngi
01 set eiipeestiir that the example which the, are glei
cont.
tame,,. 1 he elk:eyed by every other country on tl
example
fee '''' tnd that they shall quote you as
irPietrenieg a similar course.— hear, hear,aaned e'heeNrys...),
eoterttn't this freedom of commercial intercourse
iiii
Ilotiel nte 1! new bond of peace—(Cheers)—. aindintahtathtanve
Reel, 'MI not oppose any measure whic 1. )
,c
of
s
145 e ea t"d"neY i fur the permanent continuanc.
tot
suede will prevent us from being exposed
tv 1)5 n fluctuations,and
new will gain for ~
think we
401111 c°a'tineers. And I do .
be ' neglect no opportunity to gain suchof
eD4clvantage by having an abundance It te‘ae food in this couny.— (Loud cheering.
ore,„ .nee said that I have proposed these measures inot
I''ealth•-ifaister a love of gain and an accumulation of
'ectitni 1-" vise these on no such principle. I believfe
ca.
Nee t!'ation of wealth—that is the increase 0
ain, .
414;1," one of the means by which we can m
has
sserittlp eminence of this country which she
I.
lieve held over the other countries of the world. But
3ece,i7etlitd to show that abundance of provisions andto
the aceYn which is the main thing, not only contributes. c
t° tCtinialation of wealth, but it is directly conduckiv,,
wise e alleviation of allpublic burdens. It leads h e-
tog tt' the alleviation local burdens by diminish-
heall.
it
°llia's cif paupers, but above all, and before
tlit4iis
heonduciveto the spread of morality, by
11914rtiv-ing the temptations to crime that arise frotm.
Rive '*--(l,lear, hear.) I ask you, therefore,
el,O or lii,Pitir consent, not on any narrow i
re' -IHiciPle connected with the mere accumulationv
hehe,,th (or increase of the revenue), but upon the far
Litn'ir PrinciPle of increasing morality. Depend upon
4Xae3.,(1 increase luxury you will increase voluntary
b.' el3tlinSe-n' t ,I 4sk you, therefore, for the sake of morality
-P°ll th `e this measure. I ask you to consenthatondi-t
see,
ame Proof which I have brought you, that.a
you
Illeey i cheapness diminish crime. I could give ehss °stances of what the social effects of comparative.
I,lllPriesBl;cti,lY naa 'ocacruer in numbers to the mind of this
I. eestc'.„ is sail that there is no danger of scarcity.
but 4,-43 scarcity ? It was a relative question.,
etit re 43 scarcity to some might not be so to others ;
tiee, hadreleer that the lapse of three years of abund-
revlie that
a great Ch_ ange in the habits and the
of g 8 °I the
cehereparatirc peochsen(slaiear, hear ) Three years
had indeed produced
the 41'g'• That, whichaie was not scarcity ; in
1 hardh Winter of 1842 would be scarcity. noa.
tile Gece)l tile other d• y th'est in one of the battalions or
B;:iklier-r`43 the increa4se, in the number of the private
41.,6 le4st %,.110 had applied for furloughs during
l're`q ae;',,e,ar years was very great, and had beihn
recsdirh-e-`IY on the increase as compared with
4 la ;:g Years. They had more than doublets.
itk're44'so(l I Was told that the reason of this
ill
4:it
f %teal Was that the friends of these soldiers hadbleaeszts
'lv for that
comfortable circumstances during the
Isktt(lieiva'e4rs3triknli, confess I thought this a singulardatie,moral instance of the. abundances
this
occasti„"iisted 1;.; this country. I also think thatm
o to ea-
(I'll the the lelve of absence
Joe ti,c: the soldier, for it was productsivF f
permitted sim
stli f•" sc'ejetY of his friends, and made him return
di, titeis duties es better qualified for theperfo„rhm_anicwas
ttl'Posed. • t I Wa.s asked the other night e
ie When, n disturb the state of prosperity
-" ' "" I have
alluded ? I was told that
the e
pYears " 'ace of the abundance of the last three
iers no ktflicient plea was given for disturbing. tie.,
inch
„arrangements for that prosperity co-existed
HI the'" alterations which had been made
is la‘• • i, the., „ ‘ in 1842. My answer to tli vetebor `,"e prosperity referred to existed up to
the
bi„. last year • 'but in that year, and during
ieeti—ns°atbs that' have since elapsed, all in-
precedine•
4PPenNd. ojr, Then,
prosperity have dis-
-4s sYM ath net.: and since b then, there had been
recturinP y eeekeen the
prosperity' of the menu-
IN thagt classes and the prices of food. I con-
reesen to rotn
the Month ()I' October, 1845, we had
con-
The;
AI feelinl 'flat a great change was necessary.
e ner M.r). -reetien are the proposals, which, on the part
Cale Oesty, we have to lay before you.—(Hear, hear.)
kelh-th, 4ve nothing to feir from any ungenerous
Peet 7 of this Rouse There has been no ap-
e,iit_o the
Popular feeling on this question. The
or thg, the eeneral feeling of the country, is in favour
epktjaelisettlement of this question. We can now
°eat ',, it in a proper spirit. There has been a
ItiestiorTrucietY on my part with respect to this
tiltlrself. Inc example You set in tai uon
I,`ltiestem oie settlement - of this all -important „„here 1 \\:'ill be followed
in
the rest of the world.
17,,,,deieg-s 411,.Y...e.,ur justice, iny,,, o.ur wisdom, the means
e• subie Jesuce on this question, because you are
e`,°..n iset'sett it: any coercion.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
(1/7ests
autniar in. mind
.tha weth
than the
have worse
present-
4114totiri oh;e4r)--anv‘do rtshea t re' ameasuares which I have
-e'lleeret-,,Lne Rouse have been brought forward with the
Itltt.tiee'esire of effecting an adjustment of those great
`hti°, pl.liic which p rsent eo . prominently occupy 1.1 's t, „ attention, and that . they may ultimately
that beepLW' advantage of her Majesty's subjects. They
;slikt t broue.bt- forward from a sincere desire
'll4llttie7tY 1,411 benefit all classes without
is IRht fox agricultural body. They have. not. been
-
R he ward without the deepest consideration hay
°elt) '" give
th 0,,,e‘„ -n to the effect which y
thils to ". or the country. I therefore . recommend.
Hance o e )oer calm and dispassionate
consideration, in
itZ,r'f'!?ope that th 9• will conduce to the mainte-
Of flttlril 'lndly relations bet7e.en different classes of
P'ile unttY—to giving securities for the. permanence
4,,, ( anal •
the eßst , With the assurance of maintaining loyalty
~s'e e ~,l'er majesty's subjects ; that. they. will increase
then
1.:s1)11:)-Fith(1,!tk'en and better
_it.hehtconndoinu.on of' the whole
Baronet
rho teed ti"i Public, The 1
from
house nearly three
lir, ()Pp, •s.'eat, amidst loudlg cheers principally
hot 'sitihalfavine• addressed the
Sir 441 a
few minutes
toterteethefl)LEß r ,
again in a
41 m PEEL rose ,
tti)i lew 4 concluded his statement, and said he wished
tt, he. TW. titne which fee House might deem reason-
4iaeuse ne coesideration of
He did not ex-
his prop
he': th4t,!'on of it should take place. but
uesition before
eetdct4l,l unreasonable time wonld be required,ic
House
tie',lr lt.ine entirely guided by the sense of t_. a
ne_-
eie'? °f the tel.g,tes LIS said lie would wish to ask il
.511
te nese; '''itit lion. Baronet in reference to the hii.aa .
fie. th,,(t,of the statement. The Hon. Baronet had
Ja
fe.,neiel „e",,,13 speech should be a commercial and not th';,the Net: ; but he conceived it would be impossible.to
Risr• 414sur( to understarel its position in reference e
tiee, heit,
,e, unless the Right lion. Gentleman wouldthe
lig: stet u,
)en,sonee general terms, an idea of what the
as he irel.l4l Sib of the. burdens on the land, as well
eite Otliy "PelltlitUre of the State. For there was to
I,;,Cntli,t„,ea
of at remission of the revenue, but also an
lierenS. (.I'elp,s.,,°Me 600.000/ in the aggregate.
'coati" 'Me evonld wish, before tine Right lion.
,e11,11(4, eo.44l(i.ered .1,
9. te ‘,llat question, to ask him whether
.he
11 atil. cif tie, -at day fortnight too soon fur the (had
Ilaeoen 4.,ar; queation.—( Cries of " Oh, oh," an
ass" 11111- th4t •t
lie b - ' 'remind the Right Hun.
,„ - -ee it i: wetii. egeers to
illestie 1 this ei Ilse, impessible before
that time to
this
tc:i th qn.c,--clie- ultl'e the interest connected with
IL'heliji-stinti4r' 4505.) The Hon. Baronet, had alluded.a
th't t -.e erit4la?,f,,,fre
, trade ; but whatever opinion
ire
ferthlineee , --"e‘e now by those who were opposed to
frn„ght leethceal,3e he would say this, that before a
f the
hem -'s i f --``' 130 hen 1)1 f the opinions o
eel%) i was , -.possi e or
ME ar,
the It Ile t4"d to reach this House.
of
~,,, otte, Who astonished that the other side
of the
cetiv.te in e4„O professed to have the feeling
~.,
,i'l.ll to that ufr ut. their polities, should show an aPPII
itti .
11,,.. eeling.
It) pplieaututE ee' that so far from being afraid of ,
such
thelite 'Metebelle' theY anxiously expected the event.
,f he
Ire"' wished - was under a mistake if he thought that
11,41 the-, t') avuid any discussion until they heard
441. Pei,,lii",stituents.".l2hat would be placing his
I.,„Rtr. II 'i Sir It. Peel in a condition which he hoped
it, I is piseeale) would never see him occupy. Sir 11.
tic?irserit it was to think for the people, and give his
Ois 11°Ped thatth'.'nl.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter.)
ter reel , Snr IL Peel -would not hesitate to adrai..
Y (1 1 er to the requiring
Ito e 43', th •country, and, so far from ,
trione kern,
erat relief ought to be immediate ; and if the
iv °p see mbar Would only apply the principles of COM"
onla be
,0 the case, he would not be at any loss, but
1 Ail
It. :;;.,I._ to enter at once upon the debate.
1411111 Just t.,..sti;.L.here rose and said—lf I may be allowed,
duel
ea , ' l' the Hon. Gentleman to allow me to c ei
14""
3 i'"
defelthink the
~I, owl is
~,.. ice.---.(Loud laughter.) I
ott rejeetion'ui, of great importance, and the acceptance
kVaee to the°' the propositions made is of great conse-
-I:lktJeet to country. I should be the last persons to
ioe . any oPportunity being given fur due conside-
leezi , Qin it is also of importance to many to know as
1 te " POSSibl
•iilik t, e the course Parliament intends to adopt.
fur the
111 nat.next Thursday week will not be too seen
, k , sideration of this important subject.
iesee,', LES said, that whatever the Anti Corn-law
the -:e might say, it was but just for the House to give
tes4:eltist serious and deliberate consideration to the i11.t3
.t3 or , . .
' the agneulturaliste—(lleer, hear)—and he

therefore conceived that the Right Hon. Baronet's pro.
position to enter into the full consideration of the
question on Thursday would be decidedly' unjust and
premature.—(Near, hear.) It would be necessary for
all parts of the Houso, those concerned in the mann-
lecturing, as well as the agricultural interests, to weigh
the subject well before they came to any final decision.
—(Hear.) He would remind the Right Hon. Baronet
that when he proposed the Income Tax Bill, no less
than eight weeks were allowed by him for the full con-
sideration of the question, and surely this subject was of
far more interest than the income tax.—(Heer.)
Sir R. PEEL said that he had no objection
to postie no entering into the subject until Mon-
day, instead of Thursday week.—(Loud cheers.)
At the same time he would state that the Government
intended losing no thee in bringing the matter to a
final issue.—(llear, hear.) He might also add, to what
he had observed in the course of his speech, that
when he.proposed a reduction in the importation of raw
material, he had anticipated a great loss in the revenue,
but he had been most agreeably disappoint( d, for the
consumption of those articles lied so much increased,
that there had been an increase in the revenue (luring
the past year in that respect of 4,000,000/.—(Hear,
hear.) And the gain with respect to articles formerly
paying customs'-dues had also, during the past twelve
months been very considerable.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to know whether, if
they adopted the resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet,
the question of the corn-laws would be one or the first
that would come und( r the consideration of the House?
Sir R. PEEL said, that the Government was anxious
to give the House and the country an opportunity of
pronouncing its opinion upon the subject of the corn-
laws at the earliest perioA, and they would therefore en-
deavour, when this question would again come before
the (louse, to arrive at some great leading principle of
action.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. LIDDELL then rose to address the House. He
was at all times anxious to meet the wishes of the
House, and he could assure it that he never rose to
address the House with more diffidence ; but he felt
bound to express his opinions upon the important ques-
tions that had been alluded to. His opinions were in
opposition to those of her Majesty's Ministers. The
Right Hon. Gentleman, he was sure, would do him the
justice of admitting that he had not a more faithful or
staunch supporter than himself in the House. Ever
since 1830 he had given his adhesion to him, and
never until this moment had he cause of regret.—
Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp.) He had sup-
ported him throughout the whole tariff and the admis-
sion of foreign 'cattle ; and he had also supported him
in his measure with respect to the Canada Corn-bill.
Till the very last moment he had continued the confi-
dence he had hitherto placed on her Majesty's Govern
merit. He had even declined to attend a Protestant
meeting in his county, so convinced was he of the con-
sistency of the Right Hon. Baronet and the Govern-
ment. But when he heard on the first night of the
session the speeches of the mover and seconder of the
address, and that the Right Hon. Baronet him-
self abaudoned the principles of protection he had
hitherto held, he felt that the time had come
when he c ould support him no longer.— (Hear.)
He was perfectly ready to admit that the first question
which should occupy the attention of the Government
in the present condition of affairs was, the question that
the poor must be fed.—(hear, hear) That question
he had never lost sight of. The Premier had declared
that they could no longer support the policy of protec-
tion on the grounds which he had formerly entertained,
and that if the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton were
again to bring forward his measures for the repeal of
the corn-laws, he could not conscientiously oppose on
the score of protection. He (Mr. Liddell) confidently,
with the opinion that the poor must be fed, would main-
tain that an abundant and cheap supply of food might
be obtained, and, in fact, had been supplied for years,
under the principle of a protective duty. On these
grounds, if on no other, it was proper that protection
should be maintained which had prevailed throughout a
long series of years. He would take the liberty of
qnotin; from a speech made in 1843 by the Right Hon.
Baronet, which would materially assist him (Mr. Lid-
dell) in the course of argument which he wished to
pursue. "The protection," said the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, " which I wish to retain, I will not retain for
the agrandisement of any particular class. The only
protection which ought to be tolerated is that which will
provide for the benefit of the whole class of the peo-
ple." On those grounds the Right Hon. Boronet had
formerly supported protection, and he (Mr. Liddell)
could see no reason why he should now depart from the
principles which he had then laid down. But what had
occasioned the change in the principles of the Premier?
The Right Hon. Baronet had said that his principles had
undergone a gradual change, in consequence of the
benefits which he had perceived to accrue generally from
a remission of protective duties, and the immediate
cause of the Premier having taken the steps which he
had was the failure of the potato crop in Ireland. The
remedy which the Right Hon, Baronet had proposed to
meet this admitted evil was, in point of fact, no remedy
nll.—(hear, hear.) If he had sent 100,0001. or
200,0001. into Ireland to be expended in the construction
of public works—in such case, he (Mr. Liddell) could
conceive there would be some improvement in the con-
dition of the poor in Ireland. It would be putting
money into the pockets of the labourers, and they would
be enabled to live in a state of comparative comfort.
He (Mr. Liddle) would admit the great merit which on
various occasions had distinguished the proposals of the
Right Hon. Baronet, and which had induced him (Mr.
Liddell) to give him his support, but on the present oc-
casion he could not conscientiously give him (Sir Robert
Peel) his support. Wages were never so high, and never
had there been a greater demand for labour than at the
present moment, which was a pro et that the system of
protection should not be further interfered with. If, in
the course of his arguments, the Right Hon. Baronet
could have shown that the price of grain had increased,
or was likely to increase, he (Mr. Liddell) thought it
would have formed a stronger argument for the adoption
of the course intended to be pursued by the Govern-
ment than any other that had been brought forward.
The contrary, however, was the case. In 1840, in
endeavouring to arrive at a price for bread, which should
remunerate the vendor, and at the same time be within
the reach of the consumer, the Right Hon. Baronet had
taken the average price of the preceding ten years, and
had fixed the proper price at ss. 6d. per quarter, which
he considered as a fair and just price. Now, he (Mr.
Liddell) had calculated the average price of corn for
three months, up to this day, Jan. 27, 1846, and found
that it was 565. Bd. per quarter, which was the exact
price which had been fixed as a fair and just
average. On this ground, then, there appeared
no cause whatever for the repeal of the corn-
laws. He would tell the Right Hon. Baronet, that if
in consequence of the great changes which he had pro-
posed, any material diminution should take place in the
price of corn, and that in consequence vast tracks of
land should be thrown out of cultivation, the parties that
suffer would not be the large landowners. Those who
in the first place would be the sufferers would be the
tenant-farmers—those who had expended their capital
in the improvement and cultivation of their farms ; and
the next victims le ould he the small landed proprietors,
who tilled their own land, and who had invested their
all in the improvement of their land. His constituents
should not have to reproach him (Mr. Liddell) for hav-
ing departed from those principles of protection, to sup-
port which he had been returned as their representative.
He for one would not betray his trust, he would
not appear before his constituents in any other
light than as the avowed• supporter of protec-
tion, to which principle he had pledged himself.
There was another body of men that would be affected
by the proposes measure—he meant the clergy. The
clergy w eerfe
the
et
Right
ght ieoverpaiditt. body
Baronetof men,
would yet e thee apro-
positionsien
considerable
in
nsideratbhat lelo
as s
voenr3t,hsetirreiengc o m
objectionex.— (lletaer,thhearr.o)'peslei.te
mi
change. He had still another objection to thee r
llr)
tion—it would cause a falling off in the quantity(".
of
home 'grown corn. If so, that would be a very t
evil, as a falling off in the growth of that artielewg.ea
ould
occasion a diminution in the demand for labour, the
rate of wages would fall—(Hear, hear)—and the parish
burden., would be increased. These were the fears that
he entertained on the question, and why lie stood up in
the House to place his sentiments on record. He wished
to say a few words on the subject of compensation
proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet. He (Mr. Liddell)
had no doubt on his mind that the reduction of the duty
on a groat number of the articles named would be bene-
ficial, and be satisfactory to the country. He particu-
larly concurred in the policy of placing the whole of their
colonial possessions in the same position as Canada,
and he saw in the Canadian Corn Bill a far-seeing
measure, as it were extending the lEgis of protection
not alone over the Colonies, but over the seas e hick
connected them together.—(Hear, hear.)—The ex-
pectations of the country on auit measure had been re-
alized; shipping had increased in the last eighteen
months to a greater extent with that colony than they
had done from the repeal of the navigation laws. Ile
looked upon the policy then as wise, and he now con-
curred with the colonial policy laid down by the Right
Hon. Baronet. But when he (Mr. Liddell) heard it
stated, that on the Est of February, 1849, the whole
corn-laws were to be repealed—the process to go on
gradually till then—he could not on any ground of com-
pensation stated, reconcile himself to the change pro-
posed by the Right Hon. Baronet. The Right Hon.
Baronet talked of the 16,000 managers connected with
the various trusts and roads throughout the country
connected with highways and local improvements,
the waste and improvidence they occasioned, and the
necessity there was for a consolidation of their powers ; but
however true that might be, and however desirable it was to
have a change, it was not therefore necessary to repeal the
correlaws.—( Hear, hear.) It could as well be done under
• the existing corn-laws. Then the law of settlement was
! referred to, but however humane and proper the Right Hon.
Baronet's proposition on this subject might be, why mix it up
with the corn-laws? Then agricultural improvements were
referred to, but he sees little advantage in that proposition.
If land offered a proper security to parties having money to
lend, there was no difficulty in getting it now. And if the
land was so poor and encumbered that the proprietor could not
I raise money on it in the ordinary way, he saw no great V-
I vantage in getting the money as a loan from the Government.
Then other local burdens, to the amount of 50'3,000/, were to
be removed on to the Consolidated Fund. That he admitted
was a benefit, but not at all adequate compensation to the in-
terests affected by the change. It would have been easy for
I him to have taken another course, and ho was aware of h's
peculiar situation in the county he represented ; yet, notwith-
standing this, he would honestly state his conviction. Before
this question was settled, he thought the country ought to be
I appealed to. He, for one, was not afraid of meeting before his
constituency those who were now raising the popular cry cf
cheap bread. He said this, though threatened with serious
opposition in the county he represented; the Lord-Lieutenant
thinking it not inconsistent with his duty to make a canvassing
speech against him (Mr. Liddell). He would, nevertheless,
whatever difficulty it might occasion, or whatever opposition
he might raise, act up honestly and independently to his con-
, victions.—( Loud cheers from the Conservative benches.)
Captain ROUS said that, seeing the manner the Right Hon.
Baronet had been met by those behind him, be considered it
was his duty, as the Member for the city of Westmitister, to

state to the House that he would support him heart and soul,
as he considered the measures proposed were for the good and
welfare of her Majesty's subjects. On many questions he had
voted against the Right Hon. Baronet, but never against his
general policy. He was not like some gentlemen in that
House, going into the gallery and voting against the Right
Hon. Baronet, without adducing a single argument, or offering
a single remark for so doing. He recollected one case of this
kind happening last year. He, for one, would not go there to
vote if he was not prepared to give his reasons for that course.
—( Hear, hear.) He recollected that, in 1842, he made a
speech in favour of the existing corn-laws, and against the pro-
position for an Bs. duty ; but since 1842 he had seen good
grounds to alter his opinions. Since then there
_had
.
been a failure of the potato crop, and the mai-
-1
nent danger—had there beenth
ae
wheat crop
longerweuld
wet weather this season—that
thhaavtetbheeepnedpeuslatrtoieyned,„..asTeheinst,incouuapliled yinweritehasianngo,th,oe,rhilagme
erthuent,
soil
on which their food was raised was confined to a limited area,
a. h s‘t'a ofs
saidhad thatoperattheed hisonwould to
throw
mind bringt about
iltlhi
millions
aot;gec acres ou
cultivation ; but, as arable land could produce three times
more than grass land, there was no proof that the land
measure
would go out of cultivation. But if the land went out
of cultivation, and if there were labourers out of work,
they would be very glad to go upon it, and work it, profitably to
themselves and the proprietors.—( Hear, hear.) He had not
prepared a speech—he had not come down to the House, like
some Hon. Alembers, with a speech ready prepared against the
proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet, without hearing it. He
would, therefore, conclude by saying that he would give the
greatest possible support to the Right Hon. Baronet, and if he
failed, and a dissolution of Parliament took place, and the
Noble Lord the Member for the City of London succeeded to
power, he ( Captain Rolls) would support him with the same
zeal as he had supported the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Cheers. )
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN said he would not have
occupied the attention of the House had he not been so per-
sonally referred to by the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman who
had just sat down. lie had referred to his going into the gallery
and giving a vote without a speech. Surely all reason for a
vote was not to be found in a speech, but that it was possible
for there to be such without resorting to a declaration of that
kind. With respect to past votes, and past proceedings, there
was not much reason for many of them to congratulate them-
selves, as even the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had himself
referred to his own proceedings on the EO. duty. They ought
to let bygones be bygones, and not enter into matters in
which so many of them would present so very strange a
figure. He might remark, that if the Hon. Member for
Stockport took credit to himself for the change of opinion
that had taken place on the corn-laws, the Right Hon. Baronet
denied that either the speeches or the arguments of that Hon.
Gentleman had had the least influence on his mind, in making
the present proposition. The Hon. Member for Stockport
talked of the obtuseness of intellect that characterised the
country gentlemen, who would not he influenced by his coun-
sels, but it was curious that while they (the supporters of
Protection) and the Right Hon. Baronet differed, they should,
according to the logic of the League, be therefore equally de-
ficient in mind, and incapable of appreciating sound argument.
—( Hear, hear.) It had been asked by an Hon. Gentleman on
the other side (Mr. Hume) when it was remarked that they
should go to the country before settling this question—" Were
they delegates that could not act without first consulting those
who sent them ?" He (Mr. S. O'Brien) to this would say,
that ali he wanted was to go to his county (Northampton).
He did not wish to enter the lists elsewhere. He did not wish
to be like that gentleman, the butterfly of the House.—( Loud
laughter.) Not confined to one borough or county, or even
one kingdom or island, but extending his flight to the sister is-
land, and finding, when driven from everywhere else, a refuge
among the potatoes of Kilkenny.—(Laughter.)
Mr. HUME— I never was in Kilkenny.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN—If the Hon. Member was not, it did not
mend the matter, and now he had sought a shelter among the
heather of Montrose.—(Laughter.) In conclusion he would
say, he remembered the principles on which he was elected,
and would act up to them ; when he could not do so, he would
resign his trust.
After a few remarks from Mr. NEWDEGATE, which was
inaudible in the gallery,
Lord INGESTRE remarked that the Right Hon. Baronet
had said nothing about how the averages of tithes were to be
taken ; he should like to know ?
Sir R. PEEL said the averages could be kept in perfect
consistency with the proposed law.
Lord INGESTRE very much regretted that he felt it his
duty, in accordance with the principles he professed of protec-
tion to industry at large—not that he had any selfish aim in ask-
ing protection to agriculture, but because he conceived pro-
tection, as a principle, to be necessary for the salvation of the
country—to oppose the Right Hon. Baronet. He felt that, in the
speech made that night, as also that made at the opening of the
session, there was not a single argument to convince him of the
necessity of the organic change that they were doomed to forgo.
He could not conceive, he repeated, any necessity for the
change, for, since the year 1842, agriculture had been recover-
ing—.grain was obtaining fair prices—ample employment was
afforded to every person, and therefore he did not consider
that at present there was any need of this organic change.
His own opinion was, with the Hon. Member for Durham
(Mr. Liddell), that all these things were good in themselves, if
they did not make themselves dependent on foreign nations
for the food of this country. He could not, at the same time,
conceal from himself that the country at large, and those with
whom he associated, owed a heavy debt of gratitude
to the Right Hon. Baronet. They could not forget his exer-
tions in the famous crisis of 1831-32, the period of the Reform
Bill. He (Lord Ingestre) did admire the expressed deter-
mination of the Right Hon. Baronet on the first night of this
session, that he would not guide the helm of the State unless
that helm were allowed to traverse; but he (Lord Ingestre)
had joined the Right Hon. Baronet's ship when it was sailing
under other colours.—( Hear, hear.) He did not then expect
that the landmarks of the people would have been removed.
He would not lend a hand to hoist the topsail when they were
going down the stream of destruction. They were, indeed, to
have some further time for discussion, but he had taken the
very earliest period to express his objection to any alteration of
the present corn-laws.
Mr. F. R. SCOTT said, that he had never risen with
greater regret than now in opposing the proposition of the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government. He
(Mr. Scott) had come down to that House determined to hear
the case before pronouncing a verdict upon it, and he exceed-
ingly regretted that the statement he had that night heard was
not such a satisfactory one as, to induce him to alter the opi-
nions he had previously adopted ; namely, that support to
native industry was the safest guard to the prosperity of the
country. He had not pledged himself at the last election to
any particular course of policy ; but as he considered that a
promise should be held stronger and more sacred than a bond,
so did he consider that an implied understanding was ever, in
an honourable man's mind, to be held equally strong.—
(Cheers.) The statement of the Right Hon. Baronet had not
convinced his mind that there was any necessity for this change ;
at no former period had there been more work or higher wages
foe it. That was the case, particularly in the northern districts
of England, and in the south of Scotland ; at no former period
were the prices of grain so steady and so accessible to the
poor. Surely that could net be a reason for abandoning the
system which had led to that prosperity. There might be
causes to lead to this change in the mind of the Right Hon •
Baronet, but he much doubted if the same causes would con-
vince his colleagues. He would not deny for a moment that a
cheap rate of grain had contributed in no small degree to the
welfare of the country ; but he contended also that grain from
their awn soil was the greatest benefit to their country. He
(Mr. Scott) was sure that if the present system of protection
were continued for ten years longer, there would not be in that
country a discontented people. When the Right Honourable
Baronet, at the last settlement of this question addressed the
House, he assured the agriculturists of the country, that by
agreeing to his measure they would fortify their position to such
a degree that they could defend themselves against all foreign
commerce. They (the agriculturists) were 'not placed; on
equal terms with the manufactures in the changes which were
to take place. A manufacturer could change his works, but
the stock of the agriculturist was sunk in the ground, and could
not be recovered. But the Right Hon. Baronet, although he
had informed them that the duties were to be taken off the ex-
cise and the customs, had not informed them how the deficiency
was to be supplied, whether by a property-tax, or by some
other means. He again expressed his regret at the conduct
pursued by the Right Hon. Baronet, and his own inability to sup-
port it.
Lord G. BEN TINCK wished to know how the Right
Honourable Baronet calculated the tithe averages. The present
law supposed an average of 58s. Bd. a quarter, and tithes were
paid upon that amount. It would take seven more years before
grain would be reduced to 455. Were the agriculturists to
pay on 58s. Bd. when grain was only 455. a quarter ?
Sir R. PEEL explained that the proposition he had intro-
duced to the House would not, as anticipated, have the effect
of reducing the price of grain to 455. per quarter. It was,
however, at present quite uncertain what the result would be ;
but he did not think the question of the Noble Lord required
an answer. The same question might with equal reason have
been asked in 1842. He hoped that the reductions he con-
templated would lead to an increased demand for labour, and
that wages would in consequence so increase that grain would
remain at steady prices. I f otherwise, the House could take
parts e
questionfbetnhc heiso
,u,wfs
House)
osogal greeted
de
the matter into consideration at a future period.
Sir JOHN TYRRELL (whose appearance on the Oppo-
sitioniethhe
tn
Heroarsec.ihi
a.
dBo ft.
I:loeanuhegethnoot
on that
fromhoaft
ijeiarill
ttehllisia;Rwhi
oonneLf adeputation who waited upon the Right Hon. Baronet,
occa-
sion had, as he might g
say, presented a pistol at the head of
his Grace the Duke of Richmond, by holding to him a docu-
ment, which had reference to the price on wool and
with an air of triumph--" Look, the, he asked,
duty on wool was
reduced ld. per pound, prices have risen." But the reason
that the prices had risen was, that English wool was required
for the manufacture of coarse cloths, while for finer fabrics fo-
reign wool was imported. He regretted that this discussion
had gone on, because it would end in nothing important,
but the Right Honourable Baronet complained that this
argument had only been met by vituperation on the part of his
opponents. He confessed that he ( Sir John Tyrrell) felt in
the position of a person in the Peninsular war, who might see
the Duke of Wellington and his staff going over to Marshal
Soult.—(Laughter. ) He believed that that was precisely as
the agriculturists felt now. He felt that the Right Hon.
Baronet in his speech from the throne.—( Laughter.) He
would rather tell them what a farmer said to him one day
when he was out hunting.—(Continued laughter.) He
said Sir Robert Peel will only pull in front, he will not go
into the shafts, and he wont pull in the middle.—( Roars of
laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet would force his dietuin
upon the country, however much it was averse to it. He
could not forbear expressing his opinion that the Right Hon.
Baronet was not doing well in thus forcinghis opinions on them.
It was perfectly true that the measures of the Right Hon.
Gentleman might turn out as he anticipated, but he ( Sir J.
Tyrrell) did not think that the supporters of the Right Hon.
Gentleman had been well treated by him. He was surprised
that the other Members of the Right Hon. Gentleman's Go-
vernment had said nothing in the way of explanation upon this
subject. All that they at present Knew was that the Noble
Lord the Member for London had written a letter from Scot-
land which had put the Right Hon. Baronet in a pretty con-
siderable fix—such a fix that he has been compelled to resign
his office. The Noble Lord himself then came in, but he was
obliged to resign in consequence of a demand made by some of
his friends, that the Hon. Member for Stockport should form
one of his Cabinet, a step violently opposed by the constitutional
Whigs. And this was all they had heard. The Right Hon.
Gentleman at the head of the Government had not thought
proper to say anything about the potato disease. It was no
doubt the potato disease which had brought about the present
measure, arid therefore he (Sir J. Tyrrell) called the present
the Potato Peel Government.—(Laughter. )
Colonel SIBTHORP rose to read a letter which he had that,
morning received. The letter came from the Anti-Corn-
law League—( Roars of laughter)—and was marked "private
and confidential."—(Continued laughter.) Coming from such
a quarter "private and confidential" to him was something to
be admired.—(Laughter.) Of course, if he received a letter
marked " private and confidential," respecting a conspiracy
to murder any Member of that House, of course he should not
scruple to make it public.—( Hear, hear.) And so he would
proceed to read the letter he held in his hand.—(Laughter. )
The lettercomrnenced—" My dear Sir."—
(Roars of laughter.)
Certainly this might be •t in /
s met er ntor n, but it was not fortiter
in re. " The operations of the League in Lancashire, Yorkshire,
Cheshire, Middlesex, and Lincolnshire,
and other important
constituencies, having secured a majority in favour of the prin-
ciples of the League in those important constituencies, the
council feel justified in appealing to you to co-operate
with them in their endeavour. Within the last two
months they have succeded in establishing five hundred and

• fifty-three claims and objections in East Surrey, and it only
requires *vigorous efforts to be made to rescue the representation
of East Surrey out of the hands of monopoly. lam there-
fore directed by the Council of the League to take the liberty
of urging upon you personally "—I directed, sir, said the
Hon. and Gallant Member, my butler to lock up every silver
spoon I had in the house—( Roars of laughter)—" the im-
portance of your immediately obtaining a freehold qualification
for East Surrey—(Loud laughter)—and that you also suggest
the same to the members of your family and to your friends
and relations, who it is hoped will, by your strenuous recom-
mendation, be induced to follow your example.—( Great
laughter.) In all probability, upon the registration of 1846
and 1847, will turn the legislation of the country for the next
seven years, and you are therefore reminded that the qualifica-
tion must be obtained before the 31st of July next. Re-
questing your early attention to this commuication, I
remain my dear sir, by order of the Council, W. Pau riro.N.—
P. S. On payment of 56/.—(Laughter)—at this office,
40s. freehold qualifications will he obtained for you, which will
enable you to vete for the Eastern division of the county of
1 Surrey. The sum will include the cost of conveyance." Now
he received this letter that morning, and he read it, but whe-
ther it came by the direction of the Right Hon. Baronet he
knew not, but he strongly suspected that it did.—(Hear, and
supportinglsaßi a .ios
Baronet
ueohstn eyt ee,
atr faithfully.
ahm)n a
measure
ahF,
oppose
perri
without
hatoi
which,gous nueuhrett
ventured
uibmteon.r o s
i
trespassing_fos
uu Honourable
carried,mby ele eaat
rr
00
nahhwrgeet
Baronet,
nuuerf e.
pdtl)cot,osn
strike
The
the
kddh
eheehro
aeanaßtt
shouldeti
ttoi s
gehtnnheptt rroi
ooi
mfdnoneott
ohnioownei
tie House, he should sit down observing that a greater insult
had never been offered to the country than had been offered by
the Right Hon. Baronet that night.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of MARCH said, in the present state of their
proceedings, he did not intend to take up the time of the
House by entering into arguments upon this great question.
It was a subject of such vast magnitude that they could not
be too careful in approaching it. At the same time, he must
say, that never, in the whole course of his life, had he been
more horrified, mere distressed, or more astonished, than
when lie heard the proposition which had been propounded by
the First Lord of the Treasury. He was perfectly certain
that he could speak for his constituency, for he was sure he
knew their opinions, and he was convinced they would not
assent to, or accept in any way, the proposition which the
Right Hon. Baronet had made that night ; and he now begged
leave to tell the Right Hon. Baronet that he would meet with
his strenuous, his violent, and most consistent opposition.—
( Hear, hear.) In the course of this session they had heard
statements, made both in and out of the House by the
Right lion. Baronet, of the reasons which had changed
his opinions on the subject of protection, and he
must say, that when he heard the Right Honourable
Baronet, in June last, resist the motion of the Hon. Member
for Wolverhampton, he certainly did not expect that in the
following November the opinions of the Right Hon. Baronet
would have undergone so serious a change.—( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) But they had had the Right Hon. Baronet's state-
ment that his opinions had undergone a change, and they were
bound to take that statement in the way in which it was offered.
( Hear, hear.) He should be the last person to attribute im-
proper motives to the Right Hon. Baronet for that change, but
he did think the House and the country had a right to demand
from the other Members of the Administration their reasons for
their change of opinion.--(Cheers.) They had a right to
demand this, because it had been currently reported that the
minority of the Cabinet had voted in favour of the Right Hon.
Baronet.—( Hear, hear.) He held in his hand a paper, con-
taining a speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Wiltshire, which he made to his constituents on accepting the
office of Secretary-at-War, in which speech he found
the following passage :—" He was not about to excuse
himself for his vote upon the corn-laws, because, at the
time he gave it he thought the amount of protection was ex-
cessive. He was, however, mistaken, for he had since dis-
covered that the amount tiprotection was not larger than it
ought to be, and it was, he thought, the opinion of the people,
and of the Ministry, that this protection ought to be upheld."
Now this was spoken on the 15th of February, 1845, but what
would be the Right Hon. Gentleman's reception if he went
amongst his constituency, in February, 1846, as a supporter of
the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
Government. He repeated that they had a right to demand of
the other Members of the Administration the reasons for their
changing their opinions which they supported, he would not
say in 1842, but which they promulgated in 1845.
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT—Sir, I think the House will
agree with me, that, in this stage of the proceedings, it will
not be for their convenience that I should now enter
at length, and in detail, into the reasons and grounds
upon which I have formed the opinion I hold upon the subject
now before the House, or to explain the grounds which induced
me entirely to change the opinions upon the commercial
policy of the country which I have hitherto advanced in this
House.— ( Hear, hear.) But this I will, and I hope it will be
satisfactory to the Noble Lord and the House that when the
discussion comes on in a future stage of this proceeding, I
shall be enabled to state explicitly, simply, and undisguisedly,
all the grounds which induced me to change my opinions, and
to give such an explanation of my conduct as to be perfectly
satisfactory to the House. I think it will be more for the
convenience of the House that we should not enter prematurely
into the whole bearings of this vast and great question, or to
put forward at the present moment the many arguments
which may be urged in its favour. But at all events I think
it more for our convenience that I should not go into the
reasons and grounds which have induced me to form the
opinions
I now hold, because, while entering into those
grounds, it will be necessary for me, after what has fallen from
the Noble Lord and other Hon. Members to enter upon a
discussion of a somewhat personal character.—( Hear, hear. )
I beg leave to assure my Noble Friend, who asks me
what sort of a reception I expect when I again go amonst nay
constituency, that no man can impute to me any but disin-
terested motives, or that I changed my views end opinions for
the sake of power, and certainly I could not have changed them
for the purpose of currying favour with my constituency,
because my constituency is a peculiar agricultural one. But'
when I do again go amongst my constituency, I hope they wil
so fairly and dispassionately have considered this question, and
the many arguments in its favour, that there will be
little or no difference between their opinions, and my
own.—(Cheers.) Let me further tell the Noble Lord that on
my returning to town last autumn, I found the affairs of the
nation in such a state as to induce me not to hesitate for a mo-
ment in making up my mind as to the course I should pursue,
and I joined with my Right Hon. Friend, the First Lord of
the Treasury, in advising the Council to adopt the. measure
which has been brought forward to night, and when proper and
convenient time arrives I shall be ready to explain
my reasons for doing so, without any reserve on my part.
When, therefure, I shall again present myself to the
notice of my constituents, I have the firmer conviction
that—this question having been in the meantime calmly and
dispassionately considered by the country—those who now take
the sincerest interest in agricultural protection will think that
I have never neglected my duty to them or my duty to the
community at large, in giv.ng my hearty, disinterested, and
honest support to the measure which has been brought forward
this evening.—(Cheers. )
Mr. P. HOWA RD said that, connected as he was with the
landed interest of the country, he must be allowed to address
a few words to the House, on the important subject
which had been brought before them. He had
listened to the able and elaborate explanation
of the Right Hon. Baronet, and he confessed that the equiva-
lent the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to afford to the landed
interest for the change he was about to make, was much less
than was justified by circumstances ; but, considering the suc-
cess which had hitherto followed free-trade measures, he was
prepared to give his support to the resolutions which were to
be submitted to them.—( Hear, hear.) He confessed that he
would much rather have had the change made less suddenly,
and while the period of three years was much too limited,
he thought the maximum protection to be afforded in the
meantime was no less scanty. There was an alteration, how-
ever, which he hailed as a boon to agriculture—he meant the
alteration in the law of settlement. Only those farmers re-
siding in the neighbourhood of large towns could appreciate
the importance of this change • but nevertheless he begged
most heartily to thank the Right Hon. Baronet for the con.
cession.

Mr. EDMUND NV ODEHOUSE begged to ask the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government,
whether it was his intention to lay upon the table of the
House any of the communications he had received from the
crowned heads of Europe respecting their opinions upon free
trade, because upon that subject they had no assurance ex-
cept from the Honourable Gentleman, the Member for Bolton
(1
aDysrbi.
reßfßocrowe rpitnhEgeß)
*T E
IT
oPu
seEaL
formalhoped toe
obnev
ee
on
taibolue d
fromin at
hf eewe
rdoawy
us
et
do
heads of Europe favourable to the relaxation of protective duties.
—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. GROGAN observed that, as an Irish Member, he
wished to state that four articles, to which protection was most
essential, would be seriously affected by the Right Hon. Baro-
net's proposed reductions. The first of these, linen' was one
of the chief articles of home manufacture in Ireland, and pro-
tection was to be withdrawn from it. The provision trade was
also a staple article of commerce, which would be thrown open
to the competition of foreigners. The article of butter was
also a main feature of Irish traffic, and although it was one of
the items left unaltered in the last tariff, it was now proposed
to reduce the duty one half. There was not, he believed, a
single article of Irish manufacture which the Legislature ought
to be more anxious to encourage than the butter trade.—
(Hear, hear.) With respect to corn, the people of Ire-
land were in the same condition as the people of Eng-
land, with this exception, that they had no manufactures
to. fall upon when there was a scarcity of agricultural em-
ployment. Consequently any withdrawal of protection from
corn would be very severely felt in Ireland. As the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir R. Peel) hrd stated that they were to have on
the following evening a schedule. comprising the names of the
articles, and. the amount of duty to be reduced upon each, he
wished to know whether the schedule would contain an agre-
gate amount of the reductions, and also to know in what way
the deficiency in the national revenue was to be met.
Sir R. PEEL, in reply to the Honourable Member, said, he
was in hopes that some of the reductions in duty would, so far
from creating a deficit, :tend to increase the
revenue.—( Hear, hear.) He could show that in
the years when there was the greatest importation there had
_A(
(heoeurg:i)wtiltihe
been the best prices. The reduction in duty led to increased
various articles
demand, nevertheless there had not been any diminution in the
quantity of home produce. As several gentlemen ap-
peared anxious upon the subject, he
would now
7-(ropi ise d upon
remark that it was notueart,hehearir.it)ention of her
Majesty's Government to make any proposition
great
additionala thetaxes.
produce a temporary effect he had mentioned would
revenue, nevertheless he had such confidence in the increased
respect to the income-tatn.
demand that would result from these reductions, and the addi-
tional employment that wad be given, that the revenue could
reduction which he had p
be met without proposing
Mr. H. HOWARD expressed. . hope that some attempt
would be made to make a reduction in slave-trade sugar.
Mr. CURTIS, as the iepresentative of a large
number of persons interestedthe in the cultivation
attention of hops, trusted to drawinterest. He of the
' ht 11, n. Baronet to that e hoped there would
Rig , .
be an entire free trade in hops, for if not. it would be unfair to
the protection from foreign hops.
take away half p He asked,
growers, for free
in the name of the hop gr°Hon' Me b trade in hops, and
no duty, and called up?l'l the • 1.11 er for East Sussex to
abject. If the Right Hon B -
support him in that etl aronet, had
ageneral *
proposed with respect to corn, reduction from 6s ,
he would have given him his support;s but as it was now he
would not commit himself, but give his proposition a fair and
candid consideration, while he would his uttermost to bring
his opinions to concur with those of the Right Hon. Baronet.
—(Hear, hear.) For his part he was most anxious to have
the question of the corn-laws finally set at rest. Considering
the enormous duty that was now paid on hops, he hoped the
Right Hon. Baronet would turn his attention to the subject,
with the view of repealing the duty altogether._( Hear.)
Sir R. PEEL observed, that after the very candid speech
of the Hon. Member (Mr. Curtis) he ought to make him a
reply. If he were in private conversation with the Hon.
Member, he would tell him not to encourage the hop-growers
to stir this question. Upon a former occasion he (Sir Robert
Peel) had proposed to reduce the duty on hops from 61. to
4/. 10s., but he had been opposed in such intention. He really
thought there was now a very fair protection on hops.
Mr. BENNETT remarked, that the Right Honourable
Baronet had forgotten the
and and the hops.
labouring population who
consumed both the malt He did hope
that the Right Hon. Baronet, among the other duties which
it was his intention either to reduce or abolish
would have pro-
' posed the total repeal of the malt-tax.--(Hear, hear.) That
wu a taz upon the labearin
tax, he maintained, g Ptopnlatioe.