The Sun.
London, England, 1848-03-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 17, 1848.

Average Amount.
Pease's Old Bank, hull, the Hull Old Bank and
Beverley Bank, Hull—Pease and Co
Penzance Bank, Penzance—Batten and Co
Peterborough Bank and Oundle Bank, Peter-
borough—MAr=rs. Yorke
Peterborough Bank, Peterborough—Simpson,
White, and Simpson
Pembrokeshire Bank, Haverfordwest—J. and
W. 'Walters
Penzance Union Bank, Falmouth Bank, and
Truro Bank, Penzance—Rickets, Enthoven
and Co
Reading Bank, Reading—slmonas and Co
Reading Bank, Reading—Stephens,Blandy, and
Co
Richmond Bank, Richmond—Stapleton and Co
Ringwood and Poole Bank, and Town and
County of Poole Bank, Ringwood—Ledgard
and Sons
Rochdale Bank, Rochdale—Clement, Royds,

45,448
9,639

7,221

9,507

6,88$

25,32!

23,1164
4,429

and Co
Rochester, Chatham, and Strood Bank, Roches-

ter—Day and Nicholson
Royston Bank, Royston—Fordham and Sons
Rugby Bank, Rugby—Butlin and Son
Rye Bank, Rye—Curteis, Pomfret, and Co
Reigate and Darking Bank, and Reigate, Croy-
don, and Darking Bank, Reigate—Nash and

Co
Ross Old Bank, Iferefordshiro, Ross—Pritchard

7,898

3,30'

8,533
12,995
13,190
13447

10,42

and Allaway
Saffron Walden and North Essex Bank, Saffron
Walden—Messrs. Gibson
Salop Bank, Shrewsbury—Burton, Lloyd, and
Co
Scarborough Old Bank, Scarborough—Woodall
and Co
Shrewsbury Old Batik, and Shrewsbury and
Ludlow Bank, Shrewsbury—Rocke, Eytons.
and Co
Sittingbourne and Milton Bank, Sittingbourne
—Valiance and Son
Southampton Town and County Bank, South-
ampton—Maddison and Son
Southwell Bank, Southwell—Wylde and Co
St. Alban's Bank. St. Alban's—J. S. Story
Salisbury Bank, Salisbury—Messrs. Brodie
Shaftesbury Bank, Shaftesbury— Brodie and
King
Southampton and Hampshire Bank, Southamp-
ton—Atherly and Fall
Stone Bank, Stone—W. Moore
Stourbridge Stourbridge —Rufford,
Wrag,g, and Co ... 12,380
Stafford Old Bank, Stafford—Stevenson and Co 12,859
Stamford and Rutland Bank, Stamford—Eaton,
Cayley, and Co.
Stourbridge Old Baok, Stourbridge—Bate and
Robins
Shrewsbury and Welshpool Bank, Shrewsbury
—Beck, Downward, and Co.
St. Alban's and Hens Bank, St. Alban's—Gib-

4,209

36,040

9,617

22,776

25,849

2,908

12,044
11,810
1,020

3,145
5,166

18,100

15,665

son and Stuart
Taunton Bank, Taunton—Messrs. Badcock
Tavistock Bank, Tavistock—Gill, Bundle, and

17,346

Co
Thornbury Bank, Thornbury—Rolph, Yates, and

Parslow
Tiverton and Devonshire Bank, Tiverton—Duns-
ford and Dame
Thrapston and Kettering Bank, Northampton-
shire, Thrapston—Yorke and Eland
Tring Bank and Chesham Bank, Tring—But-
cher and Son
Towcester Old Bank, Towcester—J. and S
Percival
Union Bank, Cornwall, llelston—Vivian and
Co
Uxbridge Old Bank, Uxbridge—Hull, smith,
and Co.
Wallingford Bank, Wallingford—Wells and Co.
Warwick and Warwickshire Bank, Warwick—
Kelynge, Greenway, and Co.
Wellington Somerset Bank, Wellington—Fox
Brothers
West Riding Bank, Wakefield, and Pontefract
Bank, Wakefield—Leathatn, Tew, and Co
Whitby, old Bank, Whitby—Simpson, Chap-
man, and Co
Winchester, Alresford, and Alton Bank, Win-
chester—Bulpett and Co.
Winchester and llatnpshire Bank, Winchester

—Wickham and Co
Weymouth Old Bank and Dorchester Bank,
Weymouth—Elliott and Pearce
Wirkesworth and Ashbourne Derbyshire Bank,

Wirkesrvifth—Arkwright and Co.
Wisbech and Lincolnshire Bank, Wisbech—
Gurney and Co.
Wiveliscorci)e Bank, Witeliicombe—P. and W

Hancock
Wolverhampton Bank, Wolverhampton—Good
riche and liolyoake.
Worcester Bank, Worcester—Farley, Lavender,

and Co.
Worcester t)ld Bank and Tewkesbury Old Bank,
Worcester—Berwick, Lechmere, and Co
Worcestershire Bank, Kidderminster—Fax-lily

and Turnir
Walsall Old Bank, Walsall—Charles Foster and

Sons

Warminster and WiltshirQ Bunk, Warminster—

Everett and Co.
Wrexham Bank, Wrexham—S. Kenrick
Wolverhampton Bank, Wolverhampton—
Me-;srs. Fryer
Yarmouth and Suffolk Bank, and llalesworth
and Suffolk Bank, Yarmouth—Gurney,
firkbelk, and Co.
Yarmouth, Norfolk, and Suffolk Bank, Great
Yarmorth—Sir E. K. ',aeon, Bart., and Co
Yeovil Old Bank, Yeovil—E. and J. Batten
York Bank. York—Swann. Clouzh, and Co,

JOINT-STOCK BANKS.
flank of Westmoreland, Kendal
Barnsley Banking Company, Barnsley
Bradford Banking Company, Bradford
Bilston District Banking Company, Wolver-
hampton
Bank of Whitehaven, Whitohaven
Bradford Commercial Banking Company, Brad-
ford
Burton, Utt:ixoter, and Staffordshire Union
Banking Company, Burton-upon-Trent
Chesterfield and North Derbyshire Banking
Company, Chesterfield
Cumberland lTnion Banking Company, Work-
ington
Cheltenham and Gloucestershire Banking Com-
pany, Cheltenham
Coventry and Warwickshire Banking Company,
Coven try
Coventry Union Banking Company, Coventry..
County of Gloucester Banking Company, Chel-

8,165

7,66;

6,13$

9,935

12,122

7,623

7,442

18,108
3,841

23,926

2,375

41,878

14,298

17,913

4,106

9,90 i

30,130

46,784

7,80

11.823

9,088

70,44

9,173

16,960

12,899
1,4:4

7,529

46,785

9,90 S
5,776
34,669

7,466
7,650
42,666

3,823
24,150

15,149

47,415

7,906

28,58

9,249

21,310
11,695

tonham •
Carlisle and Cumberland Banking Company
Carlisle
Carlisle City and District Bank, Carlisle
Dailey and \Veit Bromwich .9anking Company,
Dudley
Derby and Derbyshire Banking Company, Derby
Etrlington District Joint-Stock Banking Com-
pany, Darlington . 15,757
East of England Bank, Norwich
Gloucestershire Banking Company, Gloucester. 118,344
Halifax Joint-Stock Bank, Halifax 12,567
Huddersfield Banking Company, Huddersfield 29,931
Hull Banking Company, Hull 26,195
Halifax Commercial Banking Company, Ha-
lifax
Halifax and Huddersfield Union Banking Com-
pany, Halifax 24,745
Holston Banking Company, Helston 1,553
Herefordshire Banking Company, Hereford 15,754
Knaresborough and Claro Banking Company,

95,144

21,024
18,205

32,616
18,388

Kna,resborOugh
Kingsbridge Joint-Stock Bank, Kingsbridge 3,645
Lancaster Banking Company, Lancaster . 66,060
Leeds Banking Company, Leeds
Leicestershire Banking Company, Leicester
Lincoln and Lindsey Banking Company, Lincoln 41,915
Leamingto:i Priors and Warwickshire Banking
Company, Leamington Priors
Ludlow and Tenbury Bank, Ludlow 8,726
Moore and Robinson's Nottinghamshire Bank-
ing Company, Nottingham 21,303
Notti,righani and Nottinghamshire Banking
Company. Nottingham
Newcastle, Shields, and Sunderland Union Joint-
Stock Banking Company, Newcastle 15,925
National Provincial Bank of England, Birming-
ham, Head-office, 112, Bishopsgste-street,
London

821,857

North Wiltt. Banking Company, Melksham 41,911
Northamptonshire Union Bank, Northampton 63,112
North_ amptonJhire Banking Company, North-
ampton
North and South \Vales Bank, Liverpool 11,360
Pares's Leicostt rshire Banking Company, Lei-
cester. . , . . 46,560
Saddleworth Banking Company, Saddleworth... 1,882
Sheffield Banking Company, Sheffield 35,501
Stamford, Spalding, and Boston Banking Com-
pany, Stamford
Stuckey's Banking Company, Bristol Somerset-
shire Bank, and Somersetshire Bank, Lang-
port
Shropshire Banking.Cornpany, Shiffnall ...
Stourbridge and Kidderminster Banking Coin
pany, Stourbridge
Sheffield and llaburnshire Banking Company,
ShSehffieeffildelaand—Roiherham Joint-Stock Banking 17,775
Swaledale and SdhWenienstdleydale Banking Company, 52,887
Richmond .. ...... • 44,244
Storey and Thomas's Banking Company,
Shaftesbury
Sheffield and Retferd Bank, Sheffield ... 1
Wolverhampton &IA Staffordshire Bankiag Com-
panv, Wolverhampton 28,417
Wakefield and Barosley Union Bank, Wakefield 11,201
Whitehaven Joint 'Stock Banking Company,
Whitehaven .. ....,
Warwick and Le.onr_gtoa Banking Company, 27,538
Warwick . 30,518
\Vest of Englan.l. ai.!l South Wales District
liankAinstol ,.. 62,182
Wilts and Dorset Banking Company, Salisbury 81,609
West Riding Union Banking Company,
24,800
dfo-sfield -
Whitchurch and Ellesmere Banking Company,
Whitchurch
Worcester City and County Banking Company,
Worcester. . . , 4,296
York Union Banking Company, York 66,668
York City and County Bankinc, Company, York 83,553
Yorkshire Banking Company, Leeds
P. DEANS, Registrar of Bank Returns.
Stamps and Taxes, March 11, 1841.

9,676
827

i /

ELECTION COMMITTEES.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
no US E OF LORDS, March 16.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the
Woolsack at Five o'clock.

The Earl of FALMOUTH presented a petition
from Fowey, in Cornwall, signed by 1,000 parsons, in
favour of the navigation laws.

The Earl of DEVON presented a petition from
Donegal, on the subject of electoral divisions in
Ireland.

The NOBLE EARL then moved for copies of
the memorials, documents, and letters re-
ferred to in the letter of Mr. Stanley, addressed to
the clerk of the guardians of Newcastle union, bear-
ing date the 15th of November, 1847, and laid before
the House ; also copies of all memorials or applica-
tions from any proprietor in any other union
desirous of having his property formed into
an electoral division, with the answer thereto,
and all correspondence relating to such applications ;
also copies of an extract from the report of any
Assistant-Commissioner, upon reference made to him
respecting any such application; and also a return of
the electoral divisions (if any) which comprise the
property of a single person, or of two proprietors
only, showing the extent of the population thereof.
Earl FITZWILLIAM said that it was a delusion
to imagine that the poor-law in Ireland would be a
relief to the rate-payers in England. Irish paupers
would continue to flock to England until they were
furnished with remunerative employment in their
own country.
Earl FORTESCUE presented a petition, praying
that on houses of less value than 101 the poor• rate
might be assessed to the owner instead of the occupier.

get some kind Hon. Member, like the Hon. Member
for Finsbury, to present it, and then to move thlt it
should be printed at the public expense.—(llear )
Mr. EWART thought that as it was intended to
found a motion upon the petition, it would be
better to have it printed by itself, instead of being
lost among the voluminous masses of petitions
printed by order of the Committee. It was very
questionable whether the mode in which petitions
were at present treated by the House was not a con
siderable grievance to the people of this country.
Mr. CRIPPS said that the expenses of printing
formed a very serious item in the expenditure of the
country ; he thought that if a much smaller number
of petitions were presented it would be much better.
The motion was then agreed to.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.

Mr. E. DENISON postponed for a fortnight his
motion for the appointment of a Select Committee to
inquire into the composition and management of the
Ecclesiastical Commission of England and Wales.

guardians were always too anxious to save their
-s expense, and it would be so-n by the evi-
ch which had been taken on this subject that this
practice of rigid economy frequently led to th,•!
demise of unfortunate creatures, whose approaching
periods of delivery required that they should
be immediately supplied with medical relief.
He would now refer to cases in which inutitition
ind death had occurred in consequence of incom•
petent midwives havin4 been eit*oyed instead
of properly skilled medical practitioners. He re-
gretted to bring such matters before the
House. He would much rather that they had been
adjusted out of the House, but as tlys bad not been
done it would be necessary, in order to substantiate
his motion, that he should refer to some of the evi-
dence adduced before the Committee.

Mr. C. BULLER -aid, perhaps it would save the
tune of the House if he explained the nature of the
provisions by which relief to pregnant women was
given. If a woman who was pregnant could not get
through her labour without parochial relief, the
guardians, if they thought proper, were empowered to
do so.—(Hear.)
Lord ASHLEY proceeded—lt was just possible
that when a women in this condition applied fur
relief, if her husband earned 7s. or Bs. a eek,
that this might be made A ground of refusal. At
present a pregnant woman could not be sure that
when her hour of travail came on that she would
have the prompt attendance of a medical officer.
To make this certain, in all cases of distress, was
the object of his motion. Presently he should sug-
gest an improved mode of accomplishing this. Ile
was prepared to show that the refusals and delays to
which poor women were exposed when seized
with the pains of labour had led to the
most serious consequences, and that the
employment of incompetent midwives had led to the
mutilation of the child and the destruction of the
mother. Mr. White, the relieving officer of the White-
chapel union, cited several cases before the Committee
in which the lives of both mother and chili were lost,
in consequence of inefficient attendance. He stated
one case in which the midwife left the woman in
alarm, and another in which it had been found neces-
sary to call in a surgeon to perform a painful and
dangerous operation in consequence. He hardly
liked to read the details to the House, but he did
not know how he could avoid doing so.—
(No, no.) If he wished to maintain the resolutions
he was proposing, he feared he must do so,
as he thought the statement alone would be sufficient
to induce the House to accede to them ; but if they
thought it was of too disgUsting and painful a cha-
racter, he would forbear. The Noble Lord then
referred to other cases, showing the injury
caused by the employment of ignorant women.
He felt that he must make an appeal to the
House. If, in deference to the feelings of the House
and public propriety, he withheld the evidence
before him upon this subject, he trusted
that it would not be counted against him
when it came to be decided " aye " or "no "
upon the adoption of these resolutions. lie
knew that it might be the opinion of
some persons that these resolutions would, if
carried out, lead to a large amount of fraud ; but he
apprehended that that argument might he met
by a clause in the Act, making it legal to
attach the wages of such persons who had been
guilty of the commission of fraud upon the union.
Tnen it might he said that these provisions would
tend to encourage immorality, inasmuch as they made
no distinction between the married and the unmarried
female. But could any person for a moment
suppose that a woman would enter upon a course o!
guilt merely because she knew that in the time of
her delivery she could have the assistance of the
medical officer of the union ? It might, with far
greater justice and propriety, be said, that
the prospect of relief tended to the en-
couragetnent of immorality. The system as at
present constituted was the means of inflicting
great evil upon young females especially.
Under the present system, young females frequently
lacked the courage to apply to boards of guardians
for relief, and frequently some of these poor creatures
were compelled, in the last stage of their labour, to
have recourse to the aid of unskilful practitioners.
True, vast sums of money were spent in this
country in the shape of medical relief, but
the manner in which that relief was ad.
ministered was most objectionable. He therefore
begged leave to move the first resolution.
Mr. WAKLEY seconded the motion.

Mr. C. BULLER could not help complaining of
the course the Noble Lord had pursued in placing
upon the paper a series of resolutions impugning the
whole system of medical relief as administered under
the poor-law, and then, at the last moment, confining
his attEntion and the attention of the House to one
particular case in which the system was defective.—
(Hear.) The Noble Lord had supported his motion by
reference to the evidence taken in 1844, without taking
any notice of what had been done by the Poor-law
Commissioners in the interim, and the result would
appear that it was the opinion of the Noble
Lord, and, if the resolution were adopted, of
the House too, that there was a neces-
sity for rectifying certain abuses which he
would undertake to prove had long since been
most efficiently rectified by the Poor-law Corn-
missioners.—(llear, hear.) He felt great pain in
being obliged to oppose the Noble Lord on
the present occasion, because he knew that
tIL3 Noble Lord had done much to alleviate the
sufferings of the poor of the country, and was looked
up to by them as their best friend, but he could assure
the Noble Lord and the house that this subject had oc-
cupied his constant attention since he had the honour
of holding the office he now filled, and it appeared
to him that the question was too intricate to
be dealt with in the manner the Noble Lord
proposed.—(Hear, hear.) It appeared to him
that the principles and details of the questions
were the most anomalous, the most important
and the most difficult of any connected with the
administration of the poor-law, and he should have
been exceedingly happy had the result of his
deliberations on the subject enabled him to
prepare some plan for the administration of
medical relief on a new and improved principle —(Hear,
hear.) He apprehended, however, that no new plan
could be devised for the administration of medical
relief through the medium of the poor-law ;
and the result of all the consideration ht
had been enabled to give the sulject
was, that it was impossible to give medical
relief through the poor-law upon any general system,
that should prove better or more satisfactory than that
already in existence.—(Hear.) It was his opinion, that
if they were to establish a more extended or complete
system of medical relief, they must abandon
the system of local agency and local rates, and
administering the relief through the medium of the
poor-law, and devise some system of centralization
which would give from the funds of the country
a system of medical relief adequate to the
wants of the people. (Hear, hear.) His
conviction was that medical relief could not be
put upon a different footing to what it was at present.
In stating this he did not mean to say that it might
not be improved in its details, as his belief was that
it was only by that improvement that it could
be placed upon a proper footing.. The expenditure
for medical relief was considerably on the increase,
and it could not therefore be said that any
economy that had taken place in the ad•
ministration of the poor - law had been
accompanied with any want of attention to the sick
poor. The Right Honourable Gentleman, in
order to prove this assertion, read several
returns with respect to the expenses for medical
relief; from which it appeared that from 1838 to
1846 the expenses for medical relief had increased
one-sixth upon the sum originally paid. Under the
old system it was almost impossible to get a justice
of the peace to give an order for nourishment. It
was now a common thing to do so. It was a creation
of the new system.—(Hear.) Large sums were
annually expended under this head. There were
cases in which the salaries of poor-law officers were
too small—(Hear)—and others in which they were
perhaps too large; but it was a difficult thing to ap-
portion salaries. Sir John Walsh said, in his evi-
dence in 1844, that the salaries in Norfolk and Suf-
folk were large, but they gave satisfaction. In
Northumberland and Cumberland they were smaller,
but there they also gave satisfaction. These counties,
and Westmorland, Durham, and Cornwall, however,
were less pauperised than the others. Without an
exception, they possessed good medical relief. The
House must be aware how difficult, nay, how almost
impossible it was, to fix salaries by a general rule.—
(Hear.) Some discretion must be left to the Com-
missioners, for they Must render the amount paid
palatable to the districts, and according to the amount
of labour required. Those unions to which the
medical officers devoted their whole time were those
from which the least complaints were made. The
salary of the Nottingham medical officer, for instance,
was 120/, with hoard and lodging. Perhaps that
would not satisfy some medical men. Again, in the
Wayland Union there existed a mixed plan,i which he
believed worked as well as any, and which was to fix
the payment of the medical officer parily by salary and
partly by a payment for each case attended. There was
also another plan, wholly different from tile preceding-,
but which the Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Wilk-
ley) ha I told him in a conversation on the subject he
thought might prove satisfactory. This was a Van
adopted under the Earl of Stradbroke, in the 131 y thing
Union. There were no medical officers at all in that
union, but the poor applied to any medical man they
thought proper, and, at the end of the year, a sum voted
by the guardians was divided amongst those so called in
by the poor themselves. Some medical men held that
this system was open to abuse, but he believed that in
the Blything Union it worked well. With these various
plans, and though as a general principle he thought
ermanent salaries were the best, he should be
,'sorry to force on the guardians of any district the ob-

servance of a practice contrary to that to which they,
• •ss•n ~i-t ailed, and which the: had adopted an'l
•-n I leach •il.• in pra..tice. The great object wasl°
secure ;eh ((trete medical services with fair remuneration,
and, as wis his duty, he should endeavour so to upper-
,ioa the annual grant of 70,0001. as to attain it. There
wai another ma ter connected with medical relief wilier'
was of grave imp ittarce ; he auded to the present
mode of supplying the poor with medicines. That mode
he 'h ueht was utiati4actory. He thought the throw'
big the c' arize of providing drugs upon the metlicalofil-
cer was open to abuse, but now he confessed his powers
of remedying were inadi plate to his powers of perceiv-
ing the evils of the system. However, in process of
time he hoped, by the assistance of the residents in the
various districts, by the union of private charities. II
the aid of the insprctors, the clergy. and the guardians,
some better plan of dispensing drugs than at present es'
ieted might be devised and adopted. At present, how-
ever, he had no plan to suggest himself. He feared he
was dealkg with the House in a very crude form, but
he hoped the House would excuse him. It was a matter
of great difficalty to form a sound judgment on these
questions, and would require the experience of as manl
years as he had been months in his present office. fle
threw himself upon the indulgence of the House; if be
had advanced crude opinions let him be shown thetn,
anti it would found his docility would be exempla*
—(Hear, hear.) Another complaint which had been
made was the mode in which the medical officers were,
unduly fettered in respect to their administering relief
to the poor; but he thought this complaint arose from*
reference to the cases which occurred in the first Year
of the new poor-law His opinion was, that in the
matters of medical relief very little ought to be left to
the cllicretion of the relieving officer, who was totally •
incompetent to pronounce an opinion whether or not $
man was sick. His only duty was to decide the question,
" pauper or no pauper," and the medical officer only
ought to be entrusted with the discretion of attending
such persons as he held to be sick, such discretion being
subject to the approval of the guardians at their nest
meeting. But in truth the complaints which had reached
him had not been against relieving officers for refusing
to allow medical men to attend, but against medics' •
officers for having neglected to attend. He now came to
make a few observations on the remaining resolutions
laid on the table by the Noble Lord the Member for.
Bath—resolutions by which the Noble Lord had, he
thought, raised an unfair impression against the working
of the poor-law, inasmuch as they put forth evils which
had long since been remedied. He would take, in the,
first place, the fifth resolution. The evils there stated
had already been provided for by articles 165
and 169 of the consolidated orders issued by
the Poor-law Commissioners ; the only difference
between those orders and the resolution of the
Noble Lord being that the first aro legal, whereas the
latter was contrary to the existing law, inasmuch at ii
would let in as medical officers in this country Irish said
Scotch practitioners. With regard to the 6th resolution
propounded by the Noble Lord, if he would turn to the
75th and 76th articles of the consolidated orders, he
would find that the Commissioners had not stinted midi'
eal relief as the Noble Lord's resolution proposed to sio.
Hence, in these two respects, the resolutions cast an un-
just slur upon the poor-law, while they would not pro- ,
vide for the evils so effectually as the orders issued by
the Commissioners. The Noble Lord had confined his
argument on the present occasion to his first resolutions
which related to women claiming medical relief from the
parish in consequence of their being pregnant. In
this respect he (Mr. Buller) had hoped the orders of -
the Commissioners would have satisfied the Noble
Lord. The resolution of the Noble Lord invited
not only every pregnant married woman, but every
pregnant unmarried woman, to claim relief at the time
childbirth—(hear, hear)—and this would be $
scandalous injustice upon the poorer classes of rate-
payers, who were already sufficiently crushed dowrle:
If this was yielded to, anti if indiscriminate relief was
to be given at the time of child-bearing, it would be
idle to keep up any safeguards to the ratepayers what-
ever. At present the 182 d article of the consolidated
orders provided that every pregnant woman who was le
pauper, or who obtained an order from a person legally .
authorised, should be attended at childbirth by the me-
Weil officer—after birth, in case of difficulty er danger.
end that the medical officer should be paid for such at-
tendance and medicine not less than 10s. nor more than-
-205.; and in case of difficult labour the medical officer may.-
attend without an order, subject to the future decision
of the board of guardians as to whether the woman was
a proper object for medical attendance. This he (MG:
Buller) thought was as far as liberality could go with'?.
due regard to the interests of the ratepayers. 11° -
should not go further into the questions raised by the
resolutions of the Noble Lord. He had stated the
general principles on which relief should be adminis-
tered, and had given his reasons why he opposed the
resolutions of the Noble Lord. lie regretted to do so
on this the first occasion of his addressing the Howe
since ho had been appointed to the office he held, but it
was for the House to decide; and he hoped the House
would decide against a resolution which he believed
would be most dangerous and prejudicial to the country.
The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded by
moving the previous question.
WAKLEY regretted that the Right Hon. and
Learned Gentleman should have made so bad a com-
mencement as to oppose the change in favour of humanity
which had been offered to the house by the Noble •
Lord the Member for Bath. After the speech of the ,
Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman he (Mr. Wakley)
was at a loss to know why the Hon. Member opposite
(Mr. C. Lewis) was out of office us a Poor-law Commis-
sioner, for it seemed to him that the country was only to
have a chat ge of men, but not measures. It appeared to
. him that the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
absolutely got a sinecure appointment, for he eulogised
el! that had been done by his predecessors, and promised
no change or modification of evils so long and so loudly
comp!ained of. Be would tell the Right Han. and Learned
Gentl, man that the medical practitioners were not only
di,coirented but exasperated, and their treatment at the•
hands of the Commission operated injuriously to the
poor. The resolutions now under consideration merely
went to make it compulsory that the poor woman should
have medical attendance at the hour of her greatest phy-,•
steal suffering, and it would be easy to provide by
clause in a statute punishment for those guilty of
any fraud upon the guardians in this respect. It was
most important that women sheuld be attended et
childbirth by competent medical men, or the•resuls
might be a ricketty, diseased, and crippled race. This
was the source of a vast amount of paurperism. The
number of relieving officers was so small that they could
not make an adequate number of visits to the recipients
of r,tinf; but the mediell officer, an important rate-
payer, and who had an interest in reducing the parochial
burdens, was not likely to give incorrect information.
As the law stood, guardians contracted with medical
officers, who were thus overwhelmed with orders by
, their relieving officer. It generally happened that the
patients were in a state of absolute exhaustion from
want of food; the medical officer accordingly gave orders
for food; but where the relieving officer had to walk
twenty miles in a week, as had often happened in this
very county, there was not much chance of these
orders being attended to, which must be confirmed by
the relieving officer before they could be acted on. Thus
the relieving officer was actually placed above the
medical officer in matters of sielermss and health.
If a medical officer was liberal in granting these
orders for food, ho MI into disfavour with
the guardians; but the orders on the medical
officer might be multiplied without end. How were our
prisoners treated? The surgeons of the prisons and in-
firmaries might order not only nourishing food, but wine
to any extent; and this without any check or rebuke
from the visiting magistrates, or from the Home Secre-
tary, who was also a Poor-law Commissioner. It was
true the medical officers of unions had the power of doing
this; but certain returns to be moved for shortly would
show in how manycases that power was exercised. Not
a single argument had been urged against the adoption
of this resolution, and the Right Hon. and Learned
Gentleman would never have resisted it, had he been
acquainted with the miseries of the poor creatures to
whom it referred. They were frequently destitute of
the most common necessaries of food and clothing, but.
the head of the family being in employ, they could not
be treated as paupers. Ile regretted that the Right
lion. arid Learned Gentleman appeared to be acting on
the system of his predecessors, whereby the country
would be deprived of the benefit of his splendid talents,
as applied to this subject.
Mr. HUME, while desirous to afford every possible
comfort to women in the state described, could not but
fear that the adoption of the Noble Lord's resolution
would make matters worse, by striking at the feeling
of independence which it was so important to encourage,
and weakening the habits of thrift and foresight.—
(Hear, hear.) To establish a claim to medical attend-
ance on the part of every poor woman, married or not—
tor the resolution made no distinction—would be a most
dangerous step, as regarded the poor themselves—and
would be ruinous to that class of poor women who ob-
tained a livlihood by assisting others. The first objec-
tion was one which he had felt to the poor-law generally,
and he was sorry to learn that in Scotland it was ope-
rating in the way he had feared, by destroying the in-
dustry and independence of the poor. He had known
many instances of the injury resulting from ill-directed
humanity. On these grounds he should oppose the re-

Mr. C. BULLER, in reference to something that had
fallen from the llon. Member for Finsbury, said he had
sent copies of the Noble Lord's resolutions to all the
members of the late Poor-law Commission; and seven
out of nine of those gentlemen objected most unquali-
fiedly to the resolution before the House; and Sir d•
Walsh objected to it, unless the class of females to re-,
ceire the proposed relief was accurately defined.
Mr. HENLEY said that every one must applaud the
humane motives which had dictated this proposal. In
his union they had paid the medical officers 4501. a year
under the ()id system; but a neighbouring union only
paying 300/., with the sanction of the Commissioners,
the medical officers of his union had consented to accept
a like suns. When, however, the matter was brought
[scions the Commissioners, they refused to sanction more
than a payment of 295/. a year, which had since crept up
~gain to about 4001. He had the highest opinion of the
issedical officers, and believed they were under no restric-
tion as to giving orders for food and nourishing sub,
,t!inces. lie would not support the-resolution, believing
that sufficient facilities existed for obtaining relief by
the class referred to, if really destitute.
Sir W. CLAY, after complimenting the Right Hon.
usol Learned Chief Commissioner, said ho must never-
lieless support the resolution, which went to remedy • a
very serious evil—greater than any that could be pro-
aced by its adoption. Let the House remember that Ito
form of eleemosynary assistance was so important to the
poor, and so little liable to abuse, as medical assistance.
While 5,000,0001. was applied to the relief of the poor,
only about 2 per cent., or 175.00td., was expended in
medical relief.—(Hear, hear.) Hence the increase of so
small a charge was not a matter to frighten the House,
in a fiscal point o' view. He believed that the number

(leases where medical relief was refused was extremely
MO; and though, under the Noble Lord's resolution,
any Woman in the parish might apply, there was a check
Pon fraud by the power of attaching wages, and other
gleans. A further security was provided by the certifi-
cate which the medical officer would be required to give
after the first case. Thus the risk of abuse was ex-
tremely small. It would be hardly possible to apply a
email extra amount of aid so beneficially, under the poor-
law, as in the mode proposed by this resolution. Ile
hoped that, instead of the motion being met by the pre-
!lolls question, it might be withdrawn, on an undcroil: -
log by the Right Hon. and Learned Chief Commissioner
to introduce its provisions in a new order.
Viscount E!3RINGTON said he entirely sympathised
with the motives of the Noble Lord, though he differed
from the results at which he bad arrived. It seemed to
him that much of what the Noble Lord s, ught to secure
was already provided for by tile orders of the old Com-
tnissioners; at least in so far as the security against
frauds was concerned. Where a medical officer attended
at his own risk a serious and urgent case, he al wars found
the guardians ready to approve his conduct. Ile 'believed
that the class immediately above pauperis,n suff..red most
Beverly on the occasions referred to; but the resolution
of the Noble Lord did not supply a tilting remedy, as
People of that ela4s scorned to apply for parochial as
siatance.—(Hear.)
Captain PECII ELL alluded to the disclosures before
the Andover Committee, and expressed a hope that the
n
Commissioners would make it their business to visit
use different unions, and superintend the administration
0i 'relief.—(Hear, hear.) Ile thought it would be an
aurantage if the resolution was a little modified, but he
should support it as it stood, believing that money could
not be better applied. He thought the step proposed by
the Noble Lord was due to the poor, and it should have
his support.
Sir IL VERNEY felt satisfied that women ought to
have the power of calling in a medical man in cases of
'anger. He was not afraid that persons would have
l'enourse to medical aid without necessity. He hoped
the Noble Lard would not only press his first resolution
but bis second one likewise. Ile thought the present
resolution was the first step in a right direction.
Mr. ADDEIILEY thought, that this was an attempt
to effect a doubtful good by incurring a certain risk. The
object in view cou:sl be better attained by the various
institutions which existed in the country—such as lying-
its hospitals and friendly societies.
-The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
Lord ASHLEY then proposed the second resolution,
but withdrew it on the intimation of Mr. Beller, that
.olhe object of it could be accomplised by an order of the
r oor-law Commissioners, and that he would not fail to
attend to the subject.
Lord ASHLEY then proposed the third resolution. It
Was well known that great abuses existed in many
Workhouses—that the wants of the poor in sickness were
sot always well attended to— that the state of the houses
Wall often a source of disease, all of which would be re-
moved by the appointment of medical inspectors. They
had appointed medical inspectors in other departments,
and it could not be of more service in any department
taltn in connexion with the poor in the workhouses. It
aPPeared from the last report that the Whitechapel
Workhouse was in a very bad state. The medical officer
of it died of fever. He felt satisfied that if medical in-
Vectors had existed for the last five years these abuses
Would not exist. These abuses gave rise to considerable
expense, and his opinion was that the inspectors, by rea-
son of the ordi r and regularity which they would intro-
duce, would he the means of saving the amount of the
salaries which he proposed to allow them.
Mr. BULLER said he felt himself obliged to oppose
the resolution of the Noble Lord, not that he denied
tha utility of a staff of medical officers such as the
noble Lord proposed, but because he believed such a
costly and complicated machinery would not be the best
means of arriving at the end he had in view. The
object of the poor-law board was to superintend the
whole administration of the poor-law, to enforce
uniformity of action as far as possible, and to see that
the provisions of the law were exactly carried out. Now
he believed that the appointment of medical officers,
such as the Noble Lord proposed, would only hamper
them in carrying out those objects.—(Hear, hear.)
The salaries of the medical inspectors themselves would
cost the country 6,0001. a year, and with the travelling
expenses and the expenses of clerks added, he
did not think the cost could be less than 20,000/. He
did not think the House would grudge that amount, if
thea* believed that these medical inspectors were
likely to prove a real benefit, but he was sure they
• would only encumber the operations of the central au-
thority. He would not pledge himself against the ap-
pointment of one medical inspector, because he often
experienced the want of the advice which such an officer
alone could give on subjects connected with the medical
department of the pour-law. But to perform efficiently
the work which the Noble Lord referred to in his reso-
lution would require not one but 620 medical officers.
Ile Was always of opinion that it was an essential part
of the poor-law that its administration should be left in
the hands of local bodies, the central authority at Somer-
set House, exercising merely a superintending power.
The resolution of the N ible Lord would, in truth, take
the authority out of the hands of the guardians and
place it in those of the medical inspectors. The medical
nspector could only make his appearance for a few
hours in the workhouse; and how was it possible for him,
under these circumstances, to be a competent judge of
the general medical treatment of the poor? That must
be left entirely to local opinion. Then to inquire into
the diets presented was much too large a subject for the
medical inspectors. They might be found useful in re-
gulating the general sanitary condition of the workhouses,
and be was prepared to take measures to ensure that
result. The resolution of the Noble Lord appeared to
hilt to be an excellently-devised plan merely for esta-
blishing an independent medical authority in the country.
--(near, hear.) :.de assured the Noble Lord that he
was not indifferent to the objects he proposed, and if he
allowed him to work out the ends in his own way he
Could promise hitn that eventually the result he desired
to arrive et would be attained. Unless the Noble Lord
accepted his assurances, he must meet this question as
by had dove the last.
Mr. WAKLEY fear. d that the want of medical
of which the lion. Gentleman had complained, was likely
to be long felt. Ile feared he was in a bad way.---(A
laugh.) The fact was, his place ought to have been
filled by a medical man.—(lronical cheering ) Nothing
•lse would do. The Hon. Gentleman not only admitted
it, but showed it. All his vivacity and logical ability
WAS gone. Never had any man made a poorer display
than he had made that night. Ile knew not who the
advisers in the P,or.law Commission Office were, but it
was evident they had a hatred of the medical profession.
Not one of their appointments was filled by a medical
officer. A newspaper editor was uppointi.d a Poor-law
Commissioner the other day, but not a single m??dieal
rasa ever got a place.—(Cries of " Oh.") But some
day or the other the medical men would " visit " their
oppressors—(A laugh)—and he hoped they would pay
them out. Ile much regretted the motion was opposed,
and he hoped it would be carried.
Mr. HENLEY did not at all approve of the slow
Method of effecting these changes which was proposed
to them by the Ilan. Gentleman.
Captain PECEIELL thought this was a step in the
right direction. Ile agreed with the Mender fur
Finsbury, that the medical body were most scandalously
_ _ _

Lord DUDLEY STUART thought a great part of
the evils endured by the poor in this country were
attributable to the inadequate payments to medical
officers.
After a few words from Mr. ADDEALEY and Mr. E.
Dannaost,
The House divided, when there appeared—_

Ayes. - - 19
Noes
Majority —42
The previous question was according carried.
Lord ASHLEY then moved that from and after the
Ist of June next, the appointment of medical officers of
Unions shall be permanent during good behaviour, they
being removable only by the Poor-law Commissioners,
Whose decisions shall be final. The Noble Lord quoted
the evidence of a numerous body of medical witnesses
and others, t 4 show that the efficiency of the medical
officers of unions would be greatly improved by their
being independent of the boards of guardians, and of
annual election. The chaplains, the clerks, and other
officers of unions, were permanent officers—why Lot the
Medical attendants ?
Mr. P. SCROPE supported the resolution.
Mr. C. BULLER was sorry he could not accede to
the proposition of the Noble Lord. lie expressed his
regret that the Hon. Member for Finsbury should so
entirely have misconceived the tenor of any remarks of
his respecting the medical profession. He had the
fullest appreciation of the humanity and honour of that
body. As to the immediate resolution, he considered
that annual election was the most efficient means of
securing duo attention to the poor on the part of officers
Whose services were remunerated not according to what

they did, at so much a case, but by a fixed saltii-y. The
Commissioner sitting in Somerset House, and acting
through an inspector, could not possibly be 80 competent
• a judge of the fitness of the qualifications of the medical
officer—whether he possessed, not only the necessary
learning and ability, but that kindness of disposition'and
that confidence in the parish generally, without which it
Would be said you appoint for the poor that medical man
Whom no one else will employ—as the guardians who
Were on the spot. The result of the success of this re-
solution would be that the Commissioner could never
remove a medical officer, however deficient in zeal,
ability, or attention, so long as he refrained from the
commission of any specific offence upon which hold
could be taken. Again, he thought it would be most
unwise to place in his (the chief Commissioner's) hands
she holding office on a political tenure only—the
Power of removing 3,000 medical officers throughout
the country. Ho concluded by moving the previous
question.
Mr. WARLEY did not think the Right Hon. Gentle-
rnan'a answer at all conclusive. One object of the Poor
law Bill was to introduce uniformity of administration.
Well, one-half the appointments were permanent, and
now the Right Hon. Gentleman opposed a proposition to
render the other half permanent, and so to make all
uniform. It was quite impossible for the medical officer
to discharge his duty effectually while he was dependent
on the guardians. If he offended them—if he ordered
more wine or other things to the poor than concurred
with their views, he was not re•elected.—(Hear, hear.)
How was Mr. Westlake treated—the gentleman who
exposed the abuses of the Andover Union ? Ho was so
persecuted by the guardians, that he was obliged to re-
sign his situation. This would not have been the case
if he had been indepeadent of the board. It had been
the same in the Croydon and other unions. The board
of guardians had great electoral influence, and that was
the reason the whole power was placed in their hands,
and be believed sorae of their board had intimated that it

would be held as an offence to them if the office of me-
dical officer was made permanent. The permanent office
would be the one that was most useful to the poor.
After a few words from Sir 11. VERNEY and Captain
PECHELL,
Mr. WALTER bore personal testimony to the in-
capacity, in some cases, of parish doctors, Ivithout
making any specific charge, who were allowed to remain
to the injury of those parishes to which they were at-
tached. Ile had also seen several cases where the parish
doctors laboured under great disadvantages owing to a
di-inclination on the plrt of the guaniians to allow
proper nourishment. Hr therefore thought that the
in-dical men should ha permanent.
Lord I) sTuma suggested the omission from the
resolution of the words " during good behaviour."
Dr. Bowring, Mr. HenlQy, and Mr. Brotherton having
made a few remarks,
Lnrd ASHLEY said he would not object to the pro-
posed alteration of omitting the words "during good
behaviour" if it made the resolution more acceptablo to
the Government.
Mr. C. BULLER objected to the alteration. Ile
should not wish to have the removal of the medical men
thrown upon him.
The I louse divided, when there appeared—
For the resolution
Against it
Majority —62
Lord ASHLEY consented to withraw the remaining
resolutions.