The Sun.
London, England, 1833-05-22 00:00:00

Let
,NieofileilieenLcoyrde'asup,eldaceb,
did not insist on relief, Ministers would not give It*
the House then be firm, and reductions of expeoditure'thhee
was sure, might be made ; at least, if he were bl ,11,
~2 for ne,
breach of faith with the public creditor, and he bed"o
yhreedercli
that a reduction of taxation would be a better WO, v
preserve faith with the public creditor than these ftr..;
time-serving proceedings. The people expected rel'eob,
they had been taught to expect it—and if they did notho
tain it, they would be greatly disappointed. If Irtli,eit
were done to give relief to the people, and gratify trey,
dngmtahlcise them,
tar. to
u ens
,slr_e uPi.,t'
to
expectations, they would be more disappointed than 0
If the Noble Lord had no other means, he might truoto
future resources, as he had done in past time, 10d,c1,.)
the
.rick of the revenue being deficient a million.--4
rl

of " Question.") da
Mr. S. RICE wished to notice one point. tie 001,
not say that there was to be a reduction on 23°,0'e,if
houses to the extent of one-half ; what he stated dills
was, that there was to be a gradual scale from the
description of houses to the highest ; on the le,,d,
273,000 houses there was to be a reduction of one- t7O
from Is. 6d. to is., and a gradual reduction 11b°1e
from Is. to 2s. 3d. her
Lord ALTHORP observed that the Hon. 3Aeui !.
,111
Middlesex had considered that he (Lord Althorp) t%l
the same amount of surplus, although he admitted tuc
sh,aidd laoissto6tohoa,totohoe/r.e byba
dr ebdeuecnt ioan
deficiency
ter --( lOl
of revers
t.lOO
year, which the Hon. Member attributed w ',ll,;ego
of the establishments ; but it was occasioned by a reu,,
of taxation to a larger amount than the state of tbeev:doo
warranted. He (Lord Althorp) objected to the
Of ibisaltogether, not because he was particularly fetid t
eadl
tax, nor because, if he had the means, he was °°•rle°
to give it up ; but because he did not think it P°96wouth
provide for so large a reduction. He had, however% tbeod
rather that the tax should be reduced at once, an,rr
we should know where we were, than it should be de ',of
to a future period, when the state of the fioaeceled
uncertain. The Hon. Member for Marylebone Pr°he
tr
the sth of October; but it might happen, trulet'tt.,
venueimproved more than could be expected, tP°
country might then be placed in extreme difficolttderit;
could not, therefore, agree to the proposition, eon° TO
that it might place the country in such a rituatiori• herr
there were irregularities in the tax which shou:diA"kgt
medied he agreed. The Hon. Member for l‘li"71,(0
complained of the injustice of surcharges : be
°'f for
Althorp) admitted it was a part of the machinery
rere
tax which was liable to objection, that too large a P air
tion of the emoluments of the surveyors arose iron, clO
charges. He had always, in his communicitions
Board of Taxes, pressed upon them not to allow leifiappoil
surcharges, nor unless there was good reason to s':tet,
fraud. It was always very easy to argue again'tfosif
because a tax was at all times an evil—because “11,,7, 'Oll
by comparing the evil of taxation with that of a ueocoloti
revenue that the question could be decided; :beg ,fri
must look at the whole, not merely at a part. Friend"
ready to leave the case on the speech of his Hon. V
the Secretary of the Treasury (Mr. S. Rice), vih'e
thought had not been answered. he ofi'
Mr. HAWES had understood that it had been the
ginal intention of the Hon. Mover that the tax 8"1-ad
on the sth of April, and not on the sth of Octohe°,/itll
tahsehaecwcoausnatws
oafrethoef
fitnhaeneiniacloynevaern,iehnecemoovfeidnatnerafernrielod
to that effect. 0 Id'
. _

Mr. TENNYSON, amidst cries of "Question'
%foi
that as the Noble Lord seemed to think, if the t 5,013
repealed, the sooner it was repealed the better, be 00J
vote for the original motion. He agreed with 851 ,
Member that a revision of our taxation was desirab e;
as the Hon. Secretary of the Treasury had said it f4r, otiB.;
fair to recommend a large reduction of taxes witbo: elt!;
gesting a substitute, he repeated that a fair an die!
property tax, not an income tax, would be more be°01(110
to the country. He hoped the repeal of this tax it,"
a step towards it. He had no idea that his CO the!
were prepared to refuse to pay the taxes--at

should never be encouraged in that by him.
Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY briefly replied'
that the tax would not fall on the landlords; a,
it would before now have been repealed. 11'
_

the Hon. Member for Lambeth to withdraw

ment, as more hostile to the Government thin

nal motion.
The House then divided—
For the motion
Against it

Majority
Mr. F. O'CONNOR moved fora return
in which cases determined at Petty Sessions
Riding of the county of Cork are entered,

the names of the magistrates who usually att
Alsa a return of the number of persons comm
prison of the county of Cork within the

months for non-payment of fines imposed by
at Petty Sessions ; such return specifying the,
mittal, the offence charged, the amount of
extent of imprisonment awarded for the ni
thereof.

After a few words from Lord ALTHORP, tl
was agreed to.

t it thi

Mr: F. O'CONNOR then moved, " That • Se°
opinion of this House, that the absence of Alilitif;ool
during the time allotted for the presentation of Pe.eotieli
is an insult to the Houee of Commons, and at'
to the people of England." The Hon. Member no°3sll,4'
of the absence of Ministers after the pledge of Vid et;
thorp, that he, or some one of the Ministers, vitlu 0,0
tend the presentation of petitions. It was most 1,044
that the Government should know the wants 3"' oed
of the people. He himself had frequently posBb°ooo
presentation of petitions in consequence of the licit irr
some of the Ministers from whom he desired to
formation. e
Lord ALTHORP said, although the attendane-r°or,,
nisters was desirable, neither their health nor °thetiolascek;
nary engagements would permit their constant att,et, if;
but when any Member desired to obtain inforOtrti:er'
would only communicate that fact to the head o'l,
titular department, he would be sure to attend 10 IC.OI
After a few words from Mr. O'CoNNOI4
Dams, and some other Members,
„opt
Mr. O'CONNOR withdrew his motion. oftr,,e,
Mr. O'CONNELL stated his willingness 10 ' tirSk,
his motion for leave to bring in a Bill for the disfr3fjuo''
ment of the borough of Carrickl-rgus till the 6tbecd, be
provided the issuing of the writ was also postPlioal'
Mr. C. WYNN suggested that an earlier day ,
'
itte
more advisable. tbe Ago
Mr. O'CONNELL said, in accordance wit"rourr
gestion of the Hon. Member, he would propose het, It
the 23d inst., for bringing forward his motion ,d thet
,otne objections being made to that day, he agree
should be postponed to Friday, the 24th.
hi
BRISTOL ELECTION. ;,,or•
Mr. 'WARBURTON presented a petition, ".8
2,500 electors of Bristol, praying that the evidili° rbe
before the Election Committee, which had deci'e fore
your of the sitting Members, should ;be /aid beovAr e tbe
House, in order that Hon. Members might be ej et'
the nature of the practices which were pig° i 0
;00 elections. leek t ,
Mr. BAILLIE declared there never was all eke Is'
which there had been less corruption than in ,t0"-001•1611
Bristol. The whole expense had not exceeded 00°'00
though it might be considered to have lasted three fter
since operations had commenced immediatelY, acforidurr,
pissing of the Reform Bill. Out of the three lb% et° to
two had signed the requisition for him
who bad signed the election petition against tmillie)bot
beforehand‘wyea rs
were
nsooti
nputecorhmp
afraidaiyt t (Mr. it,
come forward, and the third had wished 10 sibs rett`3o
that
volous and vexatious, that they entered intc, ,
etdh.e
et
xhTeptietren
epp: petitioners
itoito:neergsplay wouldg
vlabi
eintsocitce4es_Lgtrrecie4::
brought forward. I
vtrist°. erao
Mr. PRYME said the Hon. Member fee '-'etin° col
as if the question lay only between him and the r It bet
but the question was one of public importanc!.
tybei
not a private but a public concern to 042'14:joist -re
ibery and corruption had existed in any par of 06,41
If such things should continue, the last state " It 01
formed House would be worse than the first. 0 00..
necessary that such measures should be taken .opt
secure purity of election. f the r r
Mr. FITZSIMON supported the prayer ° the i°
but deprecqted the imputatiUn of hostility to
Member for Bristol.
case hut of'
Lord ALTHORP knew nothing of the Lel fl
lie had beard in that House. He was aver-tet.,etre
to the production of the evidence, because it 31" tie
le
es 00
him to be ex parte,
nious and libellous. He should oppose its e' r
Sir R. YYVYAN argued that the
that ground. Alenabe"Vi
After some observations from several other..e
_e Pro
Mr. WARBURTON asserted that the evid '
went'
the existence of extensive corruption.
a state
Lord ALTHORP said that, after such
could not resist the investigation of the case.t
the eyltloo,,
petitionr!ean-tioe
The House then divided on the motion tit. , before
House 42
...........
yeS ..............................................
to.
Noes ................................... ! ................ it
Majority ............
On the motion of Sir RONALD FElititi
taken before the Bristol Committee be law

3:dt:.,11 eie ;jet 'fi."; i,,, ;;;,kpatr44l,:i.,
0 ieii \l/NP°O
le reci"e:,,k kI°,IISZD;
, his ,o'l,i, V's, 1
In de'fl k evi At
„skk ~, A
'l,*
'l he
... .‘./5 i\t'Nfo'„Y•
*** 1 wor , Ntil •
iof el. well N trN .
; in the , 0 ,544 Nil :,
setting ,00, ~Iycplt, 1,-. a
tend self° 0, till,
vitted tape `;,, 'age3 fir,
.diniaateg,ilist:'4°,llitslh; I..Sl'44le*lttihi'
Lao, so oept '1„
noir O
pal Ga,
;00 r; '
,_ the e . t Xe ng
th.ePt