The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-29 00:00:00

potent for every Member to refuse to serve on a Commttee
which was not immediately connected with his own locaility
Nell then the Hon,. Gentleman puts his case entirely on this
EtZlh,d. He does not say it is inconvenient for him to attend,
tit; ne shall have an opportunity of attending at se me future
e, but he distinctly gives the Committee to understand
at he •ll
rich affairs. What then was the House to do under these cir-
tuostances ? Suppose that the Hon. Member had defied the
"a use, and said he would serve on no Committee
whats
th never, it is perfectly clear what the decision ot
oe Rouse would be. But the answer of the Hon.
entieman came to the same thing. It was considered
farto
the advantage of the public that he should be selected
~`; Perform a particular duty, and it would be admitted that the
forbearingly
of Selection had performed its duty carefully and
booing
towards the different Members. The House
~binie by its resolution entrusted to the Committee of Selec-
;l'M the power of choosing Members for the different services.
question would be. whether the House was or was not to sup-
rn't the act of its Committee Now what did the Hon. and
Learned Member for York say in answer taithe charge against
the Hon. Member for Limerick, of neglecting his duty in this
respect—of having disobeyed the order of the House, and there-
it of being guilty of contempt. The Hon. and Learned
mber for Cork said that there was no intentional disrespect
Zethe part of the Hon. and Learned Member for Limerick.
said that he had a strong impression of the validity of his
objection, and that he was, therefore, justified in actirg as he
had done, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork called
on the House to pause before it came to any resolution ex-
pressive of its determination to vindicate its authority. aphis-
me Hon. Member for Limerick. Now, in the first place.
could the Rouse believe that the Hon. Member for Limerick
Was not perfectly aware that he was a Member of the Hones of
Commons, and that that House represented the whole empire;
„a 8 he not perfectly aware of the resolution on the 12th of
February, 1816; was he not perfectly aware that he was not
to all intents and our ores, a party to that resolution ; and
was the Hon. Member for Limerick ignorant that it was hi,
thltY, as a Member of that House, to obey its orders ?
But
the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork said that they
titust pause—that they must be careful of taking any steps
on this occasion ; and the Hon. and Learned Member sug-
gested that they might not hove power to interfere in th
'Manner proposed to be proceeded in as against the Hon. and
Learned Member for Limerick for a breach of the orders of the
House. He was astonished that the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Cork should advance these arguments ; for, in the first
Place,,,, that was a power invested in the House by the Act o'
Union ; and, in the next place, there was a new power which
Was exercised by the Committee of Selection—powers of a
stringent character, which, until this year, had never been
given them. Was the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork
net aware that, by the third article of the Act of Union, it
Was enacted that the said United Kingdom was represented in
one and the same Parliament, to be styled the Par-
liament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland?
By the Act of Union a certain number of Irish Members, who
formed part of the House of Commons in Ireland, became
merged with the existing House of Commons. Now he
thought the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork would not
dispute this proposition, that immediately after these Members
were incorported with the English House of Commons, they
became subject to all the liabilities which a Member of the
House was exposed to previous to the Act of Union. He was
really at a loss to understand what the Hon. and Learned
Member meant by saving that they had no statutable power
given to them to proceed to extremities against refractory
Members. Now he had always understood that public bodies
and functionaries like the House of Commons, to whom im-
Portant trusts were commttted, might enforce the obedience of
their Members when it was necessary for the due performance
of their functions. He did not mean to say, however, that
this power was expressly conferred on them by any Act of
the Legislature, or by any other authority than that of the
House itself; but a body like the House of Commons would
he perfectly powerless and perfectly helpless without
it had the right of enforcing obedience from its
Members. It was clear, therefore, that they wanted
na Act of the Legislature to confer this power
upon themselves. The House had to discharge high
and important duties to the country, and, in the performance
of those duties, it was necessary to delegate to its Members
certain minor duties to be performed on their part, and without
this power it was impossible the business of the House could
be conducted. If this power did not exist, and Members
were allowed to refuse obedience to the orders of the House.
there would be a stop put to all the proceedings of the inferior
House of Parliament. The Hon. and Learned Member for
Cork had also stated, that the Committee of Selection had
Powers given to it which were more stringent than the
Powers previously given to a Committee of the House ; but it
Must be remembered, that the House in its wisdom thought
proper to give these powers to the Committee of Selection.
li felt it impossible to get over the necessity which was evi
dent, in order to perform these duties, without delegating those
lowers to the Committee of Selection. The Hon. Member for
Limerick had refused obedience to that authority which he had
himself been a party to recognise. He had done this delibe-
rately there was no inadvertence: He in his place in that
House had refrained from endeavouring to excuse himself. He
positively refused to furnish any certificate to the Committee of
Selection of his inability, but had exhibited a persevering re-
sistance to the authority of the House. Under the circum-
stances, he (the Solicitor-General) thought there was no other
course to pursue than adopt the resolution of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Oxford. He was the last to be the advocate of severe
measures aainst any individual, especially an Hon. Member of
that House' but he could not see there was any other course
to pursue, for it was impossible for the House to support its
authority if it were to be resisted, as it now was, by the Hon.
Member for Limerick. He repeated, then, that he saw no
other course in this instance, than to take measures, which, he
regretted to say, might prove eventually severe in their conse-
quences to that Hon. Gentleman, and to approve of the reso-
lution which the House was now called upon to adopt. He
certainly should support the resolution.
Mr. E. B. ROCHE could not help feeling that the House
should not have entered upon this subject at this particular
moment. He felt this regret, because he saw that it appeared
to him that if these measures were carried out, he and the
friends who acted with him would be compelled to approve of
the whole of the conduct of the Hon. Member for Limerick, and
very 'possibly, at last, he and his friends would be compelled to
take_measures which would have the effect of very seriously
impeding the business of that House. He regretted it for
another reason ; for, if it were carried out, there would arise a
strodxfeeling iu Ireland, that it savoured—it might be perhaps
too Strong a word to say—of versecution—( Oh, oh)—that this
House were visiting the Hon. Gentleman with enmity—at any
rate,-with hostility—for the course of conduct which he had
though, it his duty to pursue in Ireland.—(Oh, oh.) He re-
gretted the House should adopt such a course, and he felt it
to be his duty to warn it of the result which would attend it.
The House had certainly the power of doing a great deal of
mischief in connexion with this matter—( Oh, oh, and laughter)
--hilt if the House had the power to punish any Member
for non-attendance at Railway Committees, he advised
it to pause before it exercised such a power.
Every one who had sat upon a railway committee must have
felt the conviction, after having attended the business of that
Committee, and gone into the various matters of detail, that it
would be utterly impossible for any Hon. Member, after hav-
ing his attention occupied the whole day in affairs brought be.
fore the Committee, to come down to that House and give his
deliberate attention to measures of public advantage to the
country that claimed his attention. If no other good arose out
of this question than to turn the attention of Hon. Members to
the mode in which Hon. Members conducted the private busi-
ness of the House, it would he a great advantage. He would
ask, what would the result be if the resolution against his Hon.
Friend the Member for Limerick was carried into effect? The
great majority of the people of Ireland were with that lion.
Member, and if the resolution were carried against him, the
hostile feelings of the Irish people would be raised against this
House, as being unfit to make laws for Ireland. How do they
propose to mend the matter? Why by withdrawing from this
House by force the Honourble Member for Limerick.
Did they think the Irish people would have greater
confidence in the wisdom of that House when
they found that one of their representatives was forcibly re-
strained from attending to their interests in the House, and
compelled to eat a bad mutton-chops in the. purlieus of that
house? They would be doing a
tvast
orderinjury to the best
interests of Ireland. They intended Friend
to attend at the bar of the House ; resolutiont?os they were
hi?
now deliberating upon would then be read, and finally he would
be placed in the custody of the Sergeant-at- Arms. He found,
however, from the motion paper that his Hon. Friend had
aeries of resolutions to propose which would open up the whole
state of Ireland. That was a subject upon which he thought
the Hon. Gentleman ought to have an opportunity of expres-
sing his opinion. His Hon. and Learned Friend( Mr. O'Connell)
had a motion on the paper that the repre entation of the county
of Cork should be increased by two additional members. Would
it not be unfair that the people of Limerick should be deprived
of expressing their opinion on this matter, by being deprived
of the assistance of their reprekentative ? Another subject of
great importance was, that the Hon. Member for Limerick
would be prevented giving his vote on Friday next, to prevent
the passin of the Coercion Bill. But above all, and more than
all, if the i-lowe pursued the proposed course they would exas-
perate the minds of the people of Ireland. He would hope the
House would not persist in the course. Let them seek to gain
the hearts of the Irish people not by an union, but by kindness
and, generous feeling. A question of that kind was of far
more importance than questions of the rules of that House.
Mr. WARBURTON' wished to express his strong disap-
proval, in the most stringent terms, of the conduct of the lien.
:Member for Limerick, in the contempt he had shown for the
:rules of that House. It was proposed that the Hon. Gentle-
man should be committed to the custody of the Serjeant-at•
Arms, end eventually he might find himself committed to the
Tower. He disapproved of the course it was proposed to be
taken. He did not dispute the authority of the House, but he
did not think it was a matter of expediency to carry that power
into effect. If for every foolish reason given by Hon. Members
rof the House not to serve upon Committees, the House were to
corder them into custody, he did not know hew many foolish
Members would seek such unenviable notoriety. The real
question stood—what did they propose to gain by following up
the rules of the house ? anti secondly, what would they lose if the
rules of the House were not followed up ? What did they gain
by forcibly compelling a Member to sit as a member of Com-
mittee? Why he would enter the Committee-room, he would
take his seat, but he would pay no attention to the business be-
eve the Committee, because he was there against his will. If a
Member should say he did not wish to be on any Committee,
7tfas that Member a likely person to attend to the business of
rh eseucsomtnittee? He did not see that any good was likely to
:result from forcing any Member to attend on a Committee. The
mour
he proposed was,f that if any Member should choose to
?give a speciat reason
;they, according tot, or Lot attending on a Committee, that
ttend, but that the S their wish, should not be compelled to at-
wort to the House thePecial Committee should be directed to re-
fnon-attendance of such Members, with
their special reasons
resultor not attending. He did not know
what would be theof such a report of the non-
attendance of an Irish Member ; but he felt satisfied
that if the Select Committee were to report the non-attendance
dem English Member without some special reason, he would
snot be again elected to repuresnennt his constituents in Parlia-
meambendment, that W. Smith
anent, lie should move
nusbearllof this House, who in
O'Brien, Esq., and any other
refuse to serve upon
tbs" course of the present sessioneleint t
might eionexempted on
Coomittees appointed,
absence
oftosutehbe
Mem-
ber, spectel grounds ; and that it be an instorucbt
Committee to report to thefolelosueseebthe
her, anal the special grounds
non-attendancehearnendrnent,
Mr. EROI HERTON having secondedt
which wag read from the chair,
Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he differed from the Hon- Mem-
ber entirely les to the epithets he applied to the Hon. Member
for Limerick. He had spoken of his reasons as being foolish;
be (Mr. O'Cimnell) thought that the people of Ireland w
approve of his esonduct ; they would consider that he hado
beenuld
acting with a view to meet the wishes of his constituents. lie
differed also in anc, 'her particular from an Hon. Member. He
(Mr. J. O'Connell) had been a member of a Committee for the
last fortnight, and there! was every probability of his continuing
so for three months longsT. He considered that he was a most
unwilling member of the Committee, but he thought that he
could at least take the credit.; without assuming too much, of
Saying that he had not neglecteel e business of the Committee,
although he was in attendance veey much against his inclina-
tions He did not think that the Right Hon. Gentleman, the
Attorney-General, had fairly met he argment of the Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Cork. The especial statute for
compelling the attendance of English Members had not been
extended to the Irish Members, and that objection had not
been satisfactorily disposed of. The lion. Gentleman then
alluded to the Union, and said that Ireland was not a consent-
ing party to it, and concluded by urgin the adoption of the