The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, June 9.
their Lordships met this evening shortly before Five
lock.

ability, and knowing that there were no authentic do-
cuments to :snide the House on this subject, he was
obligod to ask for the evidence, awl in the w ant of it
to avail Oar self of the information which aas open to
ever) body ; and he could not help arriving at a conclusion
needy diif to tht of those who were the promul-
gators uf thiserent opinion.a—(llear, hear.) It had been said
that England could compete iu an open market with any
state, and that while we were trembling before compes
tition on the Thames, in the most celebrated ports of
South America and the Adriatic—Rio and Trieste--
English shipping carried euerything before it. Re ac-
cepted the test, so ostentatiously offered, and would
show how utterly unfounded and fallacious was the
foundation of the principal arguments which had been
offered throughout these debates. He bad a return
from Rio for 1847, whieh had been given on oath
year 65
ships, amounting to 198,000 tons, nad cleared from
Rio with cargoes ; of these the British tonnage was
32,000 tons, foreign more than 166,000 tons. Of the
British tonnage 15,000 tons cleared for our colonies,
so they were out of the category ; there remaieed
something more than 16,000 tons for foreign parts.--
(Hear.) Ot the foreign tonnasse 68.000 was Americans
15,000 Brazilian, 13,000 Danish, 14,000 Swedish, 13,000
7,00°
0
Hamburgh, 11,000 Portuguese, 10,000 French,
Sardinian, and 6,000 Belgian. So that out of a tonneg
of nearly 200,000 tons from the port of Rio, British shir
ping only commanded 16,000 tons.—(Hear, hear.) 1-I°W
was it possible, in the face of such a document as that,
befer°,
to pretend that British shipping carried everythingith all
it, and competed successfully in open ports w
nations of the world. He had a return from Trieste,
not of very recent date, but he was informed by
a bests,
there,
having very extensive commercial transactions
that the relative proportions of shipping were still no!h
the same. Analysing the trade of 14 countries wite'd
Trieste, he found that in seven of them—the -Unites,
States, Marseilles, Bordeaux, Spain, Hamburgh,
employed
and Sweden—not a single British vessel was
in conducting the commerce between those countrer.ll.
and Trieste; that in five others, Norway, Cubes(' Fl°ta,
tugal, our own possessions at Gibraltar arid Salta,
and St. Domingo, sometimes one, in other eases ii
British vessels were employed; and that only to nrscz.)
was there a large majority of British shipping.--(11eail-
Recollecting that England exported to Brazil four 's:11
lions sterling per annum, and received from Brazil teoo
one million, it was quite clear that the ships whiegli, the
out the four millions must be chartered to pay ,Trieste
Bulimia.
three extra millions to other ports ; the port of ,fttet
attracted this great part of our traffic; so 0321 111 0
these three millions which the Brazils did not PO si
for were drawn by the course of commercial transectioeo
from the port of Trieste. So much for the We rest
cases, which had been appealed to in this debate w„,,t sr.)
much triumph and with so little foundation.---01,e the
The Hon. Member for Westbury (Mr. J. Wil°o°l' had
great champion of the virtues of competitions.. 0.
stated, to show the immense advantage of relaztooely
that from 1817 to 1823, British shipping was not
stationary but absolutely in decline—the tonnsge nog
fallen off from 2,600,000 to 2,500,000, notwithst.s.t the
the increase of population and of imposts;
moment the reciprocity Act was passed, which tra
considerable approach to the principles of free out
there was a rapid improvement in British shiPPingo'f the
the Hon. Gentleman forgot that, though the date r to
reciprocity Act was 1823, no increase whatev,e, 030;
place in the tonnage of our mercantile marine tat t the
and that it was only in 1834 that it bad arrived 3
000 tons,
same amount as it exhibited in 1817-2,600, 4.„er the
twenty years after the peace, arid eleven years 9"9 etch
boasted reciprocity Act.—(Hear.) This W 35 $ I:, 00
made by one who was called a master of the sub effects
of those speeches which influenced public opini°e'
and Ms
vase,
etries."
revolutions, altered tariffs, and changed Inin-3 , 0011
(Laughter.) It was impossible to draw conclusi°9,s,, to
at variance in every respect with facts. In
a beforeu' tarb °
the trade of this country and other countries,ellgre
reciprocity Act, the Hon. Gentleman had tsil try, (4
care not to give the name of a single cones reels
the date of a single treaty. The date 01843; bal
procity treaty with Russia was only in 1 ioosease"
our commerce with that country had 400,000 e,
from 200,000 tons in 1824 to more then Years
os
tons in 1846—an increase owing to nineteen Yotieeed•
that monopoly which the Hon. Gentleman dee wing
He had represented the whole British trade iHioes is
increased from 3,290,000 tons in 1824, to Si Ilia, Grer
1846; but to obtain the second amount the, Titeseru°'
tleman had taken the clearings inwards Oa °had are-
and and added them together, while in the first he old re;
iously separated them.—(Hear, hear.) rho coo
sit the boldness of such evidence as that?---V".-oes bfig,
But this was the evidence which for inaalsY'a deet;tl
the great interests of the country.—
governed England, which, brought forwass
tio,ffee to
ments and speeches, had passed laws which "004 e,
(Near) lid staso
an unlimited confidence in these documens lithefill,eo
ments, and in the statistical genius of the age, elea the
hurried into Acts which had already trcia„a co'
country. to its centre, and filled it with tiff be
sternation, He inquired not the source 0' otters "ti
Gentleman's information; he had tasted theici g 01....,
cessionfrom(
li ea rt, h ebo
hear.)
aa
ri
tu
h)t tainted dbfountainsere
authorities
had
fore, and greatly suspected that he filled g., Tee did
rote,
tie 0-
mined attack onbe f
oar an y
then Housee. Si
noefe
ample vindication was promised;
of
ff beenttbheebt
ed.Ba
etilrpaeeararcddte
IY,:cir
es:re:es:a de
o:joaa.
01 retie
summoned an
, d cross-examined on sortie P rats ote
to thes Lords
sfetter
ivsl :la.
pbteseraeisagtfiot
e documents; and that examinatil gise boos ell
lows:—"Question—ln
aprevious answer Ye- voil s'",, wer°
ment of the progress of British shippingl„,;" ; ie'pr in'
increase of 1846 over 1821 of 050 000 w-5 11/r P- he
1, 1 ,flooh if the
led to the inference that there
there was a ,'":„.. bat; erses
f
crease in British tonnage than in Arner'e-; the Jevs- tis:
Committee understand your statement rlie'o's the,,s,:seo9,-,
in the one is an increase upon the when - an "- res"'"
tonnage, and the increase upon the other is Aosevetbese
only upon part of the American tonnsge?,,ieeti)..,''og ihil
is so.—(hear, hear.) Question—Clie,', shefisitis"
two are not to be taken as compare"' - oilyoot.---
any degree the comparative inere,,seroi,a,eing
over American tonnage? Answer---'-'ene of 't 00
(Hear.) Question—Have you anY In' af
so' ‘l3:§a 16;
the comparison correctly ? Answer :
.., ed who coo
that I have." It was not he who introeui:ihst tithe
the
ments into the debate. He did not thin e, sto ritio, er
of a ship in Sunderland had anything t 0 rettirvoi!
question. Still less did he care furl thes so o'ol Os
of the oh d
ceps that they were part and perce - trihea
rsioe
(Hear, hear.) He had seen that might(
rice stecii. doff
Poor-law Commission, sink before 3de e 0 coul card
°
by such returns. He thought that no ms,to _0
that there was a bias in the officials of "., with :coos'
Trade, and that they were always prepa.rer"bow 110'V,
venient return for any Minister, no issAatt"o peon% tbdo
terous the scheme which he wi3?,e' ntlesuits °l.l°
(Cheers.) The Right Honearame, G.,„e t (se-. ..-sii.
'g 4
President of the Board of Trade ha° not
01 blisbeed
a speech, which was always a dogertios, be pe,ilitl _
laugh)—but what was still more peribjecb he.
cebiters
it—(Loud laughter)—and in that 313de for tbil a e9°
the question into four heads. lie ealle If 5, 311,,°13'
in the first place on account of the colo
elyeideoceroctess
that point he certainly was not rich in avid ehsgorel:
sisting as it did of a memorial, of a suaPich of the go to °it,
from Jamaica, an extract from the disPst ddresse obehe
nor of another island, and a
toedocunsent6ce,tbgoet the
Assembly of Canada. Such was the ell wait° et tilies
printed evidence, of the Government ~ esver it re„.
colonial case, and considering that the st""i'ng th°,lkotiP•ot
the British empire, he felt justified iti sa,,_nd of res; be
decidedly meagre.—(A laugh.) The island
was said to demand a repeal of the nav'bro the eesentSyl
when asked why, the reply, according
mot they
shore
0,
was, that everything necessary for the
__,l,v WI tboroc
had been changed, and they did not see;
cdpioicesolios fi/
not have a trial at the same game. Theirot and teislid
fore, was, it may ruin the shipning inter
lialetle°h- 1
benefit us; but what of that, lot un
man ti" to s'"°e.
(Laughter.) , The Honourable Gentler.-
ssihle it ,5.,0
some returns, and argued that it Was iraP°se iews:,,o.lo7st
that the colonies were suffering from then'syigativtie tsort
said by some Hon. Gentlemen that theci they e'llcip °file
had been changed a hundred times, an ought to
_,ps t„,
fact the basis of the argument that we (Milt estas"ol. t.it
with them altogether; but he drew front _ cooraes,oo4o
reverse, namely, that those laws, in Wood Opp 'to
hundred years, having been graduallY sot toteatie
improved, instead of being prejudiced Imo Or ofleti
ought to assume that they were in prejudiced
ad
Beth)
the necessities of the times. The sesneep pa
Exchequer said that they were evell.Act!eiple °Of
year—so had been the Bank Charter
.... aio. . to .
00
If he was asked if those laws were juaot..lrdrpoln.besil es
advantageous in their results, be employeWud I°o°6°ll'
effects of the long voyage which .see 0 00.0 i
thus benefiting our maritime interes's; of the o
much added to the commercial chore!e of iotig lo_eie
The only cases opposed to the principle of 'ibe ',O
were purely exceptional. The secretasynce oocoetirio
docks, on being examined a few days
_i a or ,„ oo 6or
jest of those laws, was asked if be as od P° se as
desirous of repealing or modifying the ' estiee' elitiei
er clu of e
was not; and in reply to a forth desire ode e'
served that there existed n° hear') ,11 01
amongst the City people.—alearld now t card`(
disposed of two points, he wou" iodirec thet,rersr,
the third and remaining one---the, beat 00 ,ifv Ili:
trade. The argument used against It c„, insP!deelte ',
was a practical one—namely, that it W-iog tr'ery 'le'
them to monopolise the indirect carrynotte , orsid
Right Hon. Gentleman, although hot sreoct'Yboe ',fir
person who had been menaced, did netnit tls°,l,osjel
a menace had been made by Prussia i " 0., to ' 00f re,'
President of the Board of Trade, wh°, thew hsgi,it ° fr-
of the Government, let the cat out 01. oo he 1,60111
mitted that the Board of Trade Was 113 ) D°lo' or
ceiving threatening notices.—(Caught / 040;0'
what Prussia could do in that avidrespeeeoce ,gr,
tleman here read at some length the ,itslei" st pr
vv rr) 1 0 os
fore the Lords' Committee by Mr- ,•, that I ono9-0,
derson, and Mr. Powles, to the enecletsjisteaceissre
pletely out of the power of Prussia t 0 $00• 00,
.f ortifsii
land.)—(Hear, hear.)LThen the Right., little 1.014109
said that America would give ni. "0 us ine v.isii;
them a little, and that she would 01/ 0 of t" res,' (
gave her much. Why that langea.gie oiler:0,0,
States involved the very prinol.A,-(Che Isosie 0,
city which the Government aband.. i_e.."•
of tb. , 0
.. re,,
was a rich treat to see the Presidens".o tosts_id fli',.,el".
Trade asking the House of Common
_',ooisl weeri:ol;Y.
vernment in passing a law because itet:"..be Gro if),
erls,
ciprocity with the United States,
_dhnot" eetll ri.elle't!ol'
itself acknowledged that they conolu,_, be sn _op ,00,
reciprocal arraegements; but it w
riinucipo ot P"the..otoet
see a Minister who gaves up the p
srly°clld vice
coming down at some suture tins
)tothat ~,, .
logooo,
ciple of retaliation.—(Hear, heas of
°f
e e
of the most extraordinary specimens_
llouse °f the il'of of
presented to a wondering
at
~ ,
But it would seem that I! fylift OP e 0
(Laughter.) wore 13 igo( iot i
vernment and the present one
_e tiose Asheis it!)
of reciprocity, and at the sans iAi
system . . which glare
Lions. .- 13
the existence of treaties
_ile
tions. Now, if both the Government
"