The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-25 00:00:00

ISLANDS).

The House went into Committee on this subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said

that the object of the resolution, on which to t-ound a Bill,
was to check a gross fraud that was at present carried
on in the Channel Islands. Papers printed in those
islands were free from the stamp duty, the advertisement
duty, and the postage duty, and advantage was taken of
this circumstance to print papers there with a view to
circulation in this country. In one case 20,000 copies
of a paper printed in the Welsh language were sent into
Wales. This was not only a gross fraud on the revenue,
but it was subjecting the newspaper proprietors in this
country to unfair competition.
The resolution was agreed to, and the House resumed,
and adjourned at a Quarter past Two.

HOUSE OF LORDS, August 24.
The Lon]) CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.
Tho Petty Big-office Bill was read a second time.
The Commons Inclosure Bill passed through Com-
mittee.
The Stock-in-Trade Exemption from Rates Bill was
read a third time and passed.
The Out-pensioners Bill was read' a third time and

passed. -
The Borough Incorporations Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Commons' amendments to the Payment of Debts
out of Real Estates Bill were agreed to.
Lord DENMAN presented a petition from Jamaica,
praying their Lordships to continue to the planters 01
that island the protection which they had hitherto en-
joyed against slave-grown sugar as the most effectua
method of discouraging slavery.
VANCOUVER'S ISLAND.
Lord MONTE AGLE then rose to move for
certain papers relating to the grant of Vancouver's
Island to the Hudson's Bay Company. Vancouver's
Island was situated in a temperate climate, was
fertile, was rich in mineral products, and possessed
some of the finest harbours in the world. From its
geographical position it would eventually become the
emporium of the trade between China and Ame-
rica and Europe, and this island it was proposed
to grant to the Hudson's Bay Company. He
was astonished to find that his Noble Friend.had con-
sented to this grant) because his Noble Friend had been
the first to enunciate the principle that colonial
lands should never be granted, but should always
be sold, and yet he proposed to grant Vancouver's Island
to the Hudson's Bay Company. This island had valu-
able veins of coal beneath its surface, and
the whole of this territory, 250 miles long, and from
30 to 40 miles wide, with its coal mines and its
harbours, was to be granted to this company.
without any provisions being made for the colonization
or for the government of this island. The Hudson's
Bay Company was of all companies the one the most
unfitted to undertake any scheme of colonization.
The Noble Lord then proceeded at great length to
detail the history of the company from its original in-
stitution in 1670 up to the present time, and contended
that all its measures tended to discourage colonization.
Circumstances were fast tending to render this island of
the utmost value, for as it was the only place along the
whole western coast of America where coal was found,
its possession must ensure the command of the whole
steam navigation of the Pacific, and consequently in a
great measure also of the commerce between America
and the opposite coasts of Asia. He anticipated that
the Noble Lord would say that this grant of Van-
couver's; Island to the Hudson's Bay Company was to
prevent its falling into the hands of any foreign power—
an argument which assumed bad faith on the part of a
friendly power, as well as a fear of our own want of
means to resist aggression. He, however, contended
that it was the most ingenious mode of securing a
quarrel with either Russia or America, to cede this
island to any mere commercial company. By leaving
the country under the care of this company it would
either cease to have any effectual protection against
foreign aggression, or we should find ourselves involved
in continual quarrels originated by this trading company.
The Noble Lord concluded by moving for papers re-
lating to a grant of Vancouver's Island to the Hudson's
Bay Company.
Earl GREY said if the Noble Lord, with all his
acuteness and ingenuity, had failed to acquire accurate
information as to the real nature of the proposed ar-
rangements, it might be expected that others might be
equally ignorant, and, therefore, he proposed to state in
a few words the case. In the first place, he did not
agree with the Noble Lord that Vancouver's Island was
a place unfit or undesireablo for colonization; on the con-
trary, it was because he believed in its importance that
he had advised the Crown to adopt this arrangement.
In the next place he held it to be certain that if we were
not to:take measures for securing the colonization, in a
regular manner, of this island, it would inevitably be
irregularly occupied by squatters from the United
States.
Indeed, he had only recently heard that the
Mennonites driven from their homes in the United
States, were
the colonizationplanning a settlement there. There-
fore, he apprehended
rehoefndths edi island t h a
was
somneen
smeasuressnecessary.—(Hear,
ry .
( H e fitorr,
hear.) But were the finances of this country in a state
to warrant a vote of 150,0001 , with all subsequent charges,
for that purpose? He apprehended that they were
not ; and, as, therefore, it was hopeless to expect that
the state could directly undertake the colonization of the
island, the arrangement with the Hudson's Bay Com-
pany appeared to him the best that could be made. He
was prepared to defend it on its merits. He did not be.
lieve that the Hudson's Bay Company could expect to
get more than a fair remuneration for their outlay of
capital. It was true that the land of the island was
fertile and good ; but the best land was of no value,
commercially speaking, unless it were settled and cul-
tivated. The island was granted to the company: they
would dispose of it in small lots to settlers; and the
money to be so received would be applied to the pur-
poses of colonization. This was no new principle; it
had been adopted with the New Zealani Company. The
Noble Lord complained of the advantageous terms on
which the coal of the island was to go to the company.
But the company did not propose to work the mines
themselves ; they would lease them to other parties,
and they would only have the royalties. And,
with regard to the government of the future
colony, it would be provided for as elsewhere,
by the appointment of a governor by the Crown,
with a Legislative Assembly elected by the settlers, and
a Legislative Council nominated by the Crown, or its re-
presentative. This proposed arrangement, which was in
accordance with constitutional law as regarded the colo-
nies, entirely got rid of any objections on the score of
an undue , monopoly of trade and commerce by the Hud-
son's Bay Company. The new colonists would be en-
titled to trade on equal terms with the rest of the world.
As far as the Hudson's Bay Company were concerned,
they would of course be bound to submit to the rights
of that company in their own territories. In 1859, when
the charter of the Hudson Bay Company expired, the
Crown would have the power of resuming this grant, on
paying to the Hudson Bay Company the amount they
night have expended in improvements, and in other re-
spects in carrying out the objects of the Crown in making
the grant. He thought, therefore, that the Government
had taken all duo guarantees for the preservation of the
rights of the Crown and the protection of the
interests of the future colonists.—(Hear. bear.) His
Noble Friend complained that the Hudson's Bay
Company were not fit to be entrusted with the powers
goon to them by this grant. But besides that ha did

SUN,

not agree in the objections raised to the general conduct
of the Hudson's Bay Company. He mu-t remind the
House that the Hudson's Bay Company were the only
persons who would or could come forward with the ne-
cessary capital, and organization near at hand, for car-
rying on the work of colonization in Vancouver's
Island. And it should also be remembered that the
Hudson's Bay Company's interests would have been seri-
ously affected had others been allowed to colonise the
island; and, considering the powers and immunities
which had been granted heretofore to the company, they
would have had a fair claim for compensation had the
Government allowed the island to be colonised from
America. If there were parties anxious to spend their
money in colonization, they might go to Australia, to
New Zealand, or to Port Natal, rather than attempt to
expend their efforts at Vancouver's Island, where they
must necessarily come in contact with a company pos-
sessing a superior organization for the purpose. He did
not agree in the objection that the practice of the com-
pany was unfavourable to colonization. As well might
it be said, that because a Noble Lord had a large deer
forest in one part of Scotland he was opposed to rural
civilisation all over the rest of the country. He had
heard much of these charges against the company; but
he must say that the effect of the information he had re-
ceived was, that the company had exercised the great
exclusive powers entrusted to them for the real benefit of
the Indians. The Noble Lord proceeded to defend the
company against the charges against them of having ne•
glected the moral and social advancement of the Indians,
and of having pushed their powers to an extent wholly
inconsistent with the intention with which they were
originally given. On the one hand, he did not
mean to say that the company, acting in the true
spirit of monopoly had given the Indians a fair value
for their furs; but, on the other hand, they
had prevented the introduction of spirits among
them.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord quoted the
opinions of Lord Elgin and Colonel Crofton (who had
commanded the troops at Red River) in favour of the
company's administration of their government. Colonel
Crofton also stated that the Indian tribes had increased
steadily in numbers since the use of ardent spirits had
been restricted by the company, and since the union of
the North-West Company with the Hudson's Bay Com-
pany. On the other side there was the testimony of
only a single person ; and he (Lord Grey) must say
that he was not prepared to surrender the opinion
of the Earl of Elgin and of Colonel Croften to that of
Mr. Isbister. The Noble Earl concluded by stating that
he had no intention of suspending the grant ; but, be•
fore it finally passed, it was intended to submit the sub-
ject to the Committee of Trade and Plantations, in
order that, if there were any further conditions which
could better secure the interests of the Government and
of the future colonists, they might be imposed upon the
company.
Lord MONTEAGLE replied, and the motion was
agreed to.
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving the second
reading of this Bill, urged on the House that it was a
measure which interfered with no rights, but only pro-
vided a machinery for inquiry where corrupt practices
were proved to exist. The Noble and Learned Lord then
proceed to state the general effect of the Bill.
Lord REDESDALE hoped that their Lordships would
comae to the conclusion of not proceeding with this Bill
this session. He wished, at the same time to avoid any
appearance of discourtesy to the other House ; but he
thought the subject was one too vast to be dealt with at
this period of the session, when the attendance of
Peers was at such a low ebb, and those Noble
Lords on that side of the House to whom
he looked for guidance and advice were absent.
Assuming the principle of the Bill to be only that there
should be an inquiry into cases of corrupt practices at
elections, he was prepared to agree to the second read-
ing, but he could not go the whole length of this mea-
sure as it had come up from the other House. He ob-
jected especially to the proposal to vest in a Commis-
sioner the arbitrary powers of inquiry, in cases where
corruption was alleged, that were given by this Bill.
The Noble Lord, after stating that he should not oppose
the second reading, said that he should move a resolution
to the effect that while the House approved of the gene-
ral object of the measure, still they thought that it was
inexpedient to proceed with it at this period of the ses-
sion; but they would be prepared to proceed with a
measure on the subject next session.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—My Lords, the
course taken by the Noble Lord opposite places me in a
situation of some embarrassment; because, considering
the facts which have come to our knowledge, considering
the state of things which this Bill was intended to cor-
rect, the corruption that prevails, and which has led to
a ♦irtual suspension of the constitution as regards the
boroughs implicated, I did think, my Lords, that it was
incumbent on us to aid in providing a remedy and a cor-
rection for such abuses. But, my Lords, at the same time
Ido not deny that there is much in what has fallen
from the Noble Lord in favour of a suspension of the
proceedings on this measure. But while I admit this,
I must express a hope that we may be enabled to pursue
such a course as will satisfy the public and the other
House of Parliament that we are not indifferent to the
importance of the subject or to the necessity of providing
some remedy. Still, as it is most desirable that more
time should be afforded for a consideration of the subject
in this House, I am prepared to agree to the suggestion
of ray Noble Friend.
Lord I)ENMAN had come down to oppose the Bill,
which he considered to be lull of errors of every kind;
but at the same time he agreed altogether that there
ought to be some effectual punishment for corrupt prat.
tices at elections.
The Duke of ARGYLL had also come down to oppose
the further progress of the Bill this session, but was
glad the Noble Marquis had acceded to the wish of the
Noble Lord.
The Bill was read a second time, and the resolution
above referred to was moved by Lord REDESDALE,
and agreed to.
FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of the Marquis of CLANRICARDE,
The House went into Committee on the Fisheries (Ire-
land) Bill.
Lord MONTEAGLE opposed the Bill. He suggested
the propriety at least of postponing the Bill until next
year, as many Bills of greater importance had already
been deferred, and particularly us it could not come into
operation, if passed, until January, 1849.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE defended the mea-
sure, because the only means of rendering the poor and
miserable fishermen prosperous, and their trade profit-
able, would be to preserve the salmon at proper seasons,
and give them a good supply at those periods when there
was a demand for that fish.
After a few words from the Earl of GLENG ALL, the
clauses passed through Committee.
The Parochial Debt and Audit Bill passed through
Committee.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table the
report of the inspectors of factories and mines.
The House then adjourned, at Half•past Eight o'clock.

THIRD READING OF THE PAR.
LIAMENTARY ELECTORS BILL.

DUKES.

Argyll
Leiiister

HOUSE OF LORDS, Aea. 22.
CONTENT.

maneuists.
Clanricarde
Lansdowne
Westminster

EARLS.

Auckland
Besborough
Charlemont
Devon
Fortescue

EARLS. BARONS.
Granville
Grey Camoys
Mint() Campbell
Radnor Colborne
Scarborough Cottenham;
Shaftesbury Denman
Strafford Eddiobury
BISFIOIII. Foley
Hereford Milford
_Manchester Montfort
BARONS. Monteaglo
Beaumont

viscoutas.
Hawarden
Sidney
Strangford
Canning

NON-CONTENT.

DUKE 3.
Beaufort
Wellington
3lanehester

EARLS.
Mounteashel
Rosslyn
St. Vincent
Klanoull
Southampton
LOADS.
Wynford
Forester
Beauchamp
ley
Romney Grant
Redesdala
EARLS. Glengall
Sondes
Desart Roden
Tenterden
Lucas Waldegrava

MARQUISES.
Exeter
Winchester
Hertford

PAIRS.
Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Tank erville
Lord Clifden Lord liardwicke

Lord Leitriin Earl Leven
Lord Sudeley Lord Templemoro
Marquis of Anglesey Lord Crofton
Marquis os Donegal Earl of Exmouth
Earl Fitzhardinge Earl Sandwich.

HER MAJESTY'S TREATRE•—IIis Grace the Duke
of Wellington was present at the performance at her
Majesty's Theatre yesterday evening. Among the au-
dience we observed the Prince Louis Napoleon, the
Count do Montemolin, attended by the General Count
Don Juan Montenegro and Colonel Don Francisco
Merry, the Duke of Ahrenbergh, his Excellency the
Russian Minister (the Baron Brunnow), the Baroness
Brunnow, and Mdlle. Olga de Lechner, the Baroness Re-
hausen, his Excellency the Swedish Minister, the Mar-
quis of Titchfield, the Marquis of Clanricarde, the Mar-
quis of Lansdowne, the Marquis of Donegal, the Earl
of Beauchamp,
Beauchatnp, the Countess of Blessington and the
Miss es Power, Earl of Beetive, Baron Nicolay, Count
de -
Barke, the Count do Guise, Count d'Orsay, Lord
Charles Wellesley, Lord Adolphus Fitzclarence, Lord
Loughborough, Lady Ann Taprell, Lord Ward, Lord
Mountcharles, General the Hon. 11. Cavendish, General
the lion. A. Upton, Sir George Wombwell, Bart., Sir
Edward Codrington, Bart., Lady Bateman, Sir J. Bay-
ley, Bext., Lady Bayley, Major-General Sir Alexander
Wood ford, Bart., and Lady Woodford, Lady Flower,
Lady C. Townley, Mr. Arbuthnot, Mr. Grote, M.P., and
Mrs, Grote, M. C. Koudriaffsky, Colonel Wildman,
Co'tonel Buckley, Mr. C. Barry Baldwin, M.P., Mrs.
11.0 ward, Mr. and Mrs. Hubert de Burgh, &c. &c.
Lieutenant-General George Guy Carleton L'Es-
trange expired on Monday last at his seat in Yorkshire,
aged 72 years. This gallant officer served with distinc-
tion during the Peninsular war, and conducted himself
most bravely at the sanguinary battle of Albuerti... when
he commanded the 31st regiment, under Marshal Vis-
count Beresford, against the French army, commanded
by Marshal Soult. For his gallant services cm that oc-
casion he received a medal. He was subsequently m-
ployed on various services. In 1843 the colon, Ley of the
95th Regiment became vacant, to which lit was ap-
pointed by the Duke of Wellington, and on the demise of
Major-General Sir J. Dickson taking plan a few
months back, ho was removed to the 61st It 'giment,
which now becomes vacant by his decease. '. Phe dr-
ceased General entered the army as Ensign in April,
1798, and his commissions bore date as follows ;
-Lieu-
' tenant, 24th Nov., 1798 ; Captain, 13th March, 1802 ;
Major, 22d May, 1104; Lieut.-Colonel, 20th May-
~1411;
Colonel, 19th July, 'lB9l ; Major-General, 22a. 'alY
1830 ; and Lieut.-General, 23d Nov., 1141.

THE INSURRECTION OF JUNE.
We. continuo the publication of these interesting docu-
ments:—
DEPOSITION OF M. JULES FAVRE (Jour 11).
I know nothing of the events of the 15th of May, beyond
having frequently spoken to M. de Lamartine of the police,
which I found very badly managed. I had wished that a
daily report should have been made, but M. Lamartine had
confidence in M. Caussidiere, and said that he would answer
for him.
On the 26th of February I was called on to fill a secondary
post in the Ministry of the Interior. The Prefet de Police
was or should have been under my orders ; but in reality that
was an authority completely independent. I should never
have accepted that post except upon the condition that M.
Caussidiere, should not ;remain at the prefecture of police.
That engagement was riot kept. I confess that I did wrong
to remain then in the Government. I had no power over
M. Caussidiere, but he had one far beyond mine. His system
consisted on operating on the masses in the public streets,
when he should meet with any opoeition to his views. I never
had any doubt of that.
On the 17th March, I believed that the movement was a
spontaneous one. I admired the imposing spectacle which
we then had under our eyes. On this occasion the dis-
courses of M. Ledru Rollin all leant towards conciliation.
and he himself spoke of causing the army to return to
Paris. On the following day, I knew, beyond the power of
doubt, that the whole had been prepared beforehand by the
Pretet de Police, and that, in the night, the whole of the
ateliers had been visited to forewarn and excite the work-
men. The intention might have been a good one, inasmuch
as it was suspected that the National Guard was not suffi-
ciently republican. He did the same thing in April. On
that day I thought that they really would have turned out.
On the 16th of April, the movement, though less nume-
rous than in March, was very threatening; on account of the
men who directed it, and the intentions which appeared to
actuate them. This movement was known to me eight
days before that time, and I learned that it was ori-
ginated to cause the disappearance of a portion of the
members of the Government, in the bosom of which body
difference and antipathies existed, which I have no need' to
explain. But it has not been made clear to me that on the
16th April two or three members of the Provisional Govern-
ment were desirous of creating a pressure upon their col-
leagues by means of a manifestation. As I was advertised of
the movement, I was bound to take measures. I caused M.
Carteret to come to me, and I interrogated him upon the
subject. Both to M. Carteret and to myself it was clearly
demonstrated that the Prefecture of Police did not wish to
do anything. It was then that Messrs. Landrin, Portalis,
and myself entered into pour parler on the subject, and that
we warned the Government. I have given in my resignation
ten times.
I have never assisted at the nocturnal councils at the Mi-
nistry of the Interior. What may, have probably given rise
to this rumour is the fact, that I sometimes saw N. Ledru
Rollin in the evening after the immense labours of the day
were over. M. Carteret and myself both saw him on the
night of the 16th of April. M. Ledru Rollin gave us his
word of honour that he had nothing to do with the move-
ment. He was afraid of being carried too far by it.
In my opinion, I consider that the Government was in
fault. So far as regards N. Ledru Rollin I have never seen
anything in him beyond a lively pre-occupation upon the
position of the Republic, as the elections had not been con-
formable to the spirit exhibited at Paris.
As to Louis Blanc and Albert that is another matter al-
together. I have always believed that there was a system
of conspiracy on their part. Carteret and I demanded the
arrest of Blanqui. With them I found Louis Blanc and Al-
bert at the ministry; the former appeared much alarmed.
Ledru-Rollin said that it was him who had given the order
to beat the rappel. At the ministry I received a note from
Ledru- Rollin dated from -the Hotel de Ville, which said—
" All is calm; the people are defiling without disorder."
After having heard that proclamation of such a nature as
to have made them seizable had been placarded, I ad-
dressed reproaches to Caussidiere, and declared to him that
I had demanded his recal. Caussidiere turned the thing
into a joke.
Generous and weak, Ledru-Rollin has been imprndent,but
never culpable; he has received men who might have com-
promised him, and who asked nothing better than to take
up arms and overturn the Government. His own ideas have
never been that way, he had given his word of honour. In
asking the authority to prosecute everybody, something very
Suspicious was done, and Ledru-Rollin did not hesitate to
add his authority to it.
As regards the attitude to be taken on the question of the
National Assembly, I thought, for my part, that it was no-
e eesisiadrsy to
maeps
Messrs. Ledru
subjectdtrhueßol
a withnd
Lamartine
a 4 well-considered.ere
of par oje
dif-
ferent d
opinion. The question of the composition of an exe-
cutive commission was also agitated. This formed the sub-
ject of a lively controversy, in which I maintained that this
commission ought to be a sort of compromise.
Ledru Rollin looked upon Caussidiere, being a prefet de
police in regular times as an impossibility, but that it was a
necessity in a period of revolution. He flattered himself that
he could govern him, whilst Caussidiere on his part said,
" Oh, as to Ledru Rollin, I will start him when I wish it," a
saying as absurd as it was ungrateful, after the pecuniary ser-
vices rendered to Caussidiere by Ledru Rollin, and the nond-
nation of the former to the prefecture of police.
Caussidiere is a very artful and very dangerous man. It
was wished to dismiss him on the evening of the 15th of May,
and to cause him to be arrested •, but the difficulty in doing
so was very great, by reason of the warlike preparations made
at the Prefecture of Police. He came on the night between
the 15th and 16th. I was, for my part, perfectly resolved
to overthrow him. Caussidiere spoke for twenty minutes.
and left us all in a state of uncertainty. Messrs. -Arago and
Marie were the only ones who voted for his arrest. lie had
always the same finesse.
I have no difficulty in acknowledging that I have drawn
up several of the circulars which have made so much noise.
I drew up the first of them, which was somewhat modified
and strengthened by 111. Ledru-Rollin. It should have been
secret. The words so much criticised, "unlimited powers,"
pouvoirs were nothing more than an exact transla-
tion of the verbal instructions given from the commencement
to the commissaries. For instance, Manuel Arago conceived
that he had power, and that even extended to rasing Lyons to
the ground. The commissaries were chosen without dis-
cernment, no proper choice being made. The first comers
were taken. The circular had for its object to define
their powers at the same time that it proclaimed the
necessity of giving them a very wide range. At
first, the first circular created little sensation. It
was only after the steps taken by the National
Guard, that the circulars were made a crime on the part of
M. Ledru-Rollin. As regards the second, it made even less
impression. It turned upon the elections. The commis-
saries were to interfere in the elections so far as laying down
doctrines went; and I still consider that to have been neces-
sary, since it is evident that to found a Republic you must
have Republicans. As regards the bulletins, they were only
an imitation of what was done at the Convention. They
were the elementary instructions for the country places. The
Bulletin No. 16 appeared appeared on a Saturday; it rained
but nevertheless crowds assembled to read it. It was every-
where considered to be infamous. I was confounded, and
sent immediately to the Post-office to stop the departure of
it, if there was yet time to do so. Evidently Ledru-
Rollin had been taken by surprise. I wished once more to
give in my resignation. It was Elias Regnault who mailer
drew up the bulletins. He, being absent that day by reason
of a family misfortune, had nothing to do with this one. It
was George Sand who drew up the famous No. 16 Bulletin.
Etienne Arago had advised Ledru-Rollin to confide to
Madame Sand the drawing up of bulletins. She had that
same morning brought to the Ministry three projects, writ-
ten in different degrees of violence. It was a sort of chance
which led to the choice of that one which would occasion the
greatest scandal in the political world.
DEPOSITION OF M. CAUSSIDIEREs
The deposition of M. Caussidiere, made on the sth of July,
is as follows :
What were the relations of Sobrier with the Prefecture of
Police?—During the first days, Sobrier came and installed
himself at the Prefecture of Police, acting in concert with
me. He left it to place himself at the head of the journal
La Commune. From that day our intimacy was limited to al
few visits and some information he brought me. A period
cannot precisely state, and in the first days Sobrier, who was
in communication with M. Lamartine, obtained an order
from him for arms and ammunition. This order was brought
to me, and I transmitted It to the Ministers of the Interior
and of War. I know not what became of the order of M.
•
Lamartine. It may be found, perhaps, in the Archives of
the Prefecture of Police. At the same time, I applied for
arms and ammunition for the Prefecture of Police, which was
then in want of them. On the application of ,Sobrier I gave
him twenty men en permanence; but at a later day I refused
him these men, arms, and ammunition.
What use was Sobrier to make of these arms and'ammu-
nltion, and how came he to have a guard when you de-
prived him of his permanence ?—I know not how Sobrier
was to organize his service. I only obeyed orders. As to
the guard he had in the latter time, I believe it was com-
posed of men employed to carry out his journals and his
placards. It is possible that Sobrier received notice to
double his posts when there was to be an alert. I knew he
was very enthusiastic, and believe him to be devoted to the
Republic. I had nothing to do with the hiring of the
house in the rue de Rivoli, in which Sobrier established
himself.
have you any knolledge of a letter addressed to you by
Sobrier when he was detained in the barracks on the 15th of
May, entreating you to procure his release?-1 never re-
ceived any such letter. I ant not surprised that he should
make such an application to me, considering our ancient
connexion. Commissary Bertoglio came' to me in the
evening to inform me that Sobrier was arrested. I replied,
"It is unfortunate ; let him remain." I was angry at what

had passed.
Did you not at times entertain serious apprehensions as to
Blanqui?—l mistrusted Blanqui because, from reports made
to me, I found that he wished to mislead the Montagnards,
and make a party for himself among them. This is what
made me insist upon forming the Garde Republicaine with a
military organization. If this had been done the affair of
May 15 would not have taken place. I had some hints of a
plot to assassinate me, but nothing certain.
Was not Flotte arrested as implicated in the events of
Rouen ? What were your motives for setting him at li-
berty had no warrant against Flotte, and did not cause
his arrest. He passed one night at the prefecture of police.
He was arrested in consequence of a dispute near a placard.
Can you give any details about the manifestation of April
16?—My opinion is that Blanqui on that day commenced
his hostility to the Government. The reports made to me at
that period do not recur to my memory. On that day we
had no fears, for all our precautions were taken.
Were you informed of the manifestation of May 15, and
its character P—On the 14th May I was informed that a
manifestation was to take place, but there was no disorder.
I apprised the Executive Government, the President of
the Assembly, and General Courtais; the Minister of the
Interior was also apprised. On the morning of the 15th I
was informed that men with concealed arms were to join in
the manifestation, and that an attempt was to be made to
enter the Assembly. I communicated all this, and tsok all
the precautions 1 could, but had no force at my disposal. I
charged some men whom I knew to have a certain influence
to use all their efforts to stop the procession at the Madeleine,
as I had been able to do the preceding Saturday. But their
efforts were rendered useless by the Blanqui club, which was
at their head. From this instant I could only refer to re-
ports, as I had a luxation of the knee, which confined me to
my bed, and prevented me from taking an active part in the
repression of the manifestation.
M. Caussidiere was then asked to give some explanation
as to the report of the prisoners who had been sent to the
Prefecture being not only released but armed. He replied,
" The 78 persons arrested at Sobrier's, and who called them
selves Montagnards, because they wore red sashes, but who
were not on my lists, were taken to the Luxembourg, with
the exception of those who were claimed by the chiefs of
armed bodies, for instance, Cl6ment Thomas,Auvigne, and
others. Some may have been released. 1 was not there.
The arrests were not all regular, and this may have been the
case with the enlargements, as I was not there to control
them. There was a distribution of arms at the Prefecture to
some Lyonnais who had not yet been armed, and some am-
munition was distributed, as it was said that the Prefecture
was to be attacked. I did all I could to restrain the Mon-
tagnards, but I was not completely master. As 1 knew
that there were men among them belonging to Blanqui, I
had placed them under arms in the morning, to prevent
their joining in any raanifeataion, and they behaved pretty

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