The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-29 00:00:00

The motion was then put and carri'd.
Lord CAMPBELL—I am very glad that we are able to jog
on a little in our business. It certainly is not, however, owing
to my Noble and Learned Friend. The part of the House in
which he sits is generally the most irregular quarter of the
House.

The LORD CHANCELLOR—I have no authority, like
the Speaker of the House of Commons, to call Noble Lords
to order. If I had, I have no doubt I should have occasion

every day to call the Noble Lord to order. —(Laughter.)
Lord CAMPBELL7I.knevv my Noble and Learned Friend

has no power to call Noble Lords to order, but he has the

power of preventing disorder. The most disorderly quarter of
the House is that which is nearest the woolsack.--( Laughter. )
The Noble Lord went on to say that he thought there should

be a railway department in connexion with the Government.
The loan appointed last year had failed, because their powers
were not defined by an Act of Parliament. He trusted that
the suggestion thrown out by the Noble Lord would meet with
the serious attention of the Government.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—The Railway Board of
last session was appointed in consequence of the proceedings
of a Committee of the House of Commons, and a report of the
House of Commons. powers were limited in consequence
of that report. It wa: a measure imposed by certain private
transactions which came before Parliament, to enable the
promoters of these transactions to carry them into execution.
The Noble Lord might be right ; Parliament did not, per-

haps, give sufficient power.
Lord BROUGHAM thought the Government could not
have done worse than getting up a report, but the Beard of
Trade was materially crippled by it. He agreed with the
Noble Lord behind him that a Board should be formed, for not

only a railway department, but for all private Bills. He
looked upon the manner in which such things were conducted
by our continental neighbours. He was perfectly satisfied
that the decisions of such a Board in every instance would
make the law, and they would have constant and economical,
but, above all, right and just decisions. It was impossible that
the Committee at present sitting on railway Bills, could satis-
facterily perform their duties. It was better done in that
House than in the Representative House, from their Lordships

being a more judicial body; still it was not performed in the way
that it ought to be done. He hoped that some such salutary
measure as that he referred to would be adopted.—( Hear.)
Lord ASHBURTON perfectly agreed with the Noble and
Learned Lord, and with the feeling expressed by their Lord-
rhips, that the whole system of railway legislation should be
altered, and some responsible and efficient Board appointed.
lie hoped that they would not have to wait much longer before
the Government did something in the matter , or if they did

lot, he trusted that a Committee of that House would consider

some plan for meeting the state of things complained of.
The Board suggested by the Noble Duke should be constituted
so as to command the respect of those whom its decisions
would affect. But he apprehended that it would not, be-
cause they had an instance in the Poor-law Commissioners—
men of respectable position and influence—being made an ob-
ject which parties, whom their decisions affected, treated
with considerable obloquy. He was afraid that such a tribunal
would not meet with the approbation of the public. If the
Committees, in deciding on the Bills submitted for their con-

sideration this session, paid particular attenti' n to the amount
of capital invested, and to the wants of the districts through
which they were designed to pass, he believed that no projects
save those required would pass into law. He could not sit
down without expressing his strong conviction that the mea-
sure brought forward by the Government was loudly called

for, and Would effect great good.
Lord BROUGHAM said, although the Noble Lord ahusP,l
roads, he ( Lord Brougham) could state, that they had been
really improved during the last four or five years.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE said, he conceived the House
would not wish him to express any decided opinion on the
Question bofore the House. He wished, however, to address a

few words, calling attention to the fact, that his Noble Friends
about him, and his Colleagues in the other House, were not
responsible for the absence of any measure for conti offing railways
In the very first session alter her Majesty's Ministers obtained
power there was no appearance of a number of railway Bills at
all, but in the next session, when there was likely to be a
great demand for projects of that kind, her Majesty's Govern-
ment took the subject into their consideration, and in the very
first week of that session a Committee was appointed on the
subject on the motion of the President of the Board of Trade.
The subject was minutely gone into by that Committee, and
their report, after fully entering into the subject of railways,
and their superintendence, recommended that a department of
the executze Government should be entrusted with a certain
preliminary authority on railway Bills, before their coming
into Parliament. The Committee recommended that that
department should be entrusted with some authority, and
should report on the desirability, or not, of such Bills ; and
in their recommendation the province of dealing with these
Bills was assigned to the Board of Trade. He need not re-
mind their Lordships that at that time there was an extreme
degree of jealousy on the part of the representatives of the
people, and not less jealousy on the part of their Lordships,
against any assurAption of control over those projects by the
Government ; and, therefore, the Committee distinctly laid
down the powers which should be given to that de-
partment—exactly what they should inquire into, and no
more. He had the honour of being placed at the
head of that department. He could state, with perfect confi-
dence, that no labour was spared on his own part, and on the
part of those who acted with him, to discharge their duties in a
proper manner, and with satisfaction to the public. It would
be impossible for the gentlemen entrusted with the discharge
of this duty, to have applied themselves to it with more assi-
duity, industry, or integrity, than they had; but they could
not dare venture to go beyond the line laid down as that which
limited their duties. For this limit they could not blame
either the House or the Government. If there limits were to
be enlarged, good and well ; but until they were, no blame
could be attached to the Committee. He had now only to say,
that a Committee had been appointed for the purpose of inquir-
ing into the subject, and he had no doubt the result would be
such as would enable this House to come to some final deter-
mination upon the subject. In conclusion, he had only to
say that there could be no objection to the returns moved for by
the Noble Lord; but there might be some difficulty in getting
some of them.
Lord W HARNCLIFFE said that having been brought in
contact with this subject in some measure, he would wish to
say a few wards. He did not find fault with this Committee
going somewhat beyond its limits. He rejoicrd that there ap-
peared a growing conviction of some organisation for control-
ing the operations of that part of the public business. He
thought that such organisation could not be effected without
some considerable difficulty, arising from the constitution of
their Lordship's House. He thought it desirable such an or-
ganisation should be made.
Tke motion was then agreed to.
MESSAGES FROM HER 14IA.TESTY—VISCOUNT
HARDINGE AND LORD GoUGH.

The Earl of RIPON brought two messages to their Lord •
ships whiah were then read. " Her Majesty having taken into
her consideration the services of Viscount Hardinge, Governor-
General of India, upon the banks of the Sutlej, and in the
Punjaub, and being desirous of conveying some marks of her
favour to Lord Hardinge, and the two next heirs male of his
body, recommends your Lordships to adopt some measure
for carrying the same into effect. Her Majesty having taken
into her consideration the services of Lord Hugh Gough,
Governor-General of the army in India, upon the banks of
the Sutlej, and in the Punjaub, and being desirous of con-
veying some marks of her favour to Lord Hugh Gough, and
the two next male heirs of his body, recommends your
Lordships to adopt some measures for carrying the same into
effect."
The Earl of RIPON said that on Thursday next, he would
move the consideration of the subject.
THE RAILWAY DEPOSITS BILL.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE moved the second reading of
this Bill. He hoped there would be no opposition to the second
reading.
Lord CAMPBELL was willing to give every assistance to
the Noble Lord. He, however, wished to call his attention to
the 17th clause, which gave great power to the chairman of
those Committees. If a chairman was to make a false return,
or falsify the minutes, there was no redress, as the Bill at pre-
sent stood. This was an important pint, which he wished to
point out for the consideration of the Noble Earl. There ought
to be a review of such proceedings by the competent Court, ere
the publication in the London Gazette was made absolute. It
was most desirable that a tribunal should review, and have the
power to reverse any decision that a chairman should falsely re-
turn. That granted, he agreed that advertisements inserted
in the Land ,n Gazette should be a final authority as to the
calling of the meeting, and the resolutions it had come to. He
trusted the Noble Earl would consider the matter between that
and going into committee on the Hear, hear.)
Lord W FIARNCLIFFE wished to call the attention of
the Noble Earl to one other point. It was in reference to the
19th clause of the Bill, which required that the parties pro-
moting a Bill should return the number of shares issued. Ile
thought it right to be extended so as to be of a more perma-
nent character than was embodied in the Bill, there being at
present no mode by which the parties most interested in a Bill
could lessen the amount of reserve shares, or the manner in
which they were issued.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE said that with respect to the
limitation of the Bill, he thought it would be better that it
should be restricted to two years. With regard to the point
respecting the registration of shares, he was desirous of
its being carried into effect. In passing the Joint Stock
Companys Act of last session, the object was to obtain a full
account of the shares issued in the formation of companies, and
other particulars in reference thereto. At present the Standing
Orders' Committee also required information as t othc shares taken
up, and the returns were he believed generally accurate, at
least he did not think there was much trickery. These points
however would have his best attention, though he considered
a chairman would hardly rule the falsifying of the returns, as
his proceedings would be subjected to the closest scrutiny.
Still, in order that every precaution might be taken against such
a contingency, he would consider the means of remedying it.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Thursday next.
COMMONS ENCLOSURE BILL.
The Commons Enclosure Bill was read a second time.
Their Lordships then adjourned till Thursday.

HOUSE OF COMMOIVS, April 2S.
LORD HARDINGE AND LORD GOUGH.
MESSAGES FRONI HER MAJESTY.
Sir R. PEEL appeared at the bar of the House with a Mes-
sage from her Majesty.
The SPEAKER read the Message as follows :—" Her Ma-
jesty, taking into consideration the great and brilliant
Henry Viscount Hardinge, Lieu-
services performed by
tenant-General of her Majesty's Forces, and Governor-
General of India, in the course of the rec,nt hostilities
which have taken place on the banks of the Sutlej and in
the Punjaub, is desirous to confer some signal mark of her
favour for those and other distinguished merits of the said
Henry Viscount llardinge, upon him and the two next surviv-
ing heirs of his body ; and she recommends to her faithful
Commons the adoption of such measures as shall be necessary
to accomplish that object.
Sir R. PEEL then brought up the following Message, which
was read by
The SPEAKER—" Her Majesty, taking into consideration
the great and brilliant services of Hugh Lord Gough, Lieu-
tenant-General of her Majesty's Forces and Commander
of the East India Company's forces in India, in the course
of the recent hostilities which have taken place on the
banks of the Sutlej and in the Punjaub, being desirous to con-
fer some signal mark of her favour for these and other distin-
guished merits of the said Hugh Lord Gough, to him and the
two next surviving heirs male of his body, recommends to her
faithful Commons the adoption of such measures as shall be
necessary to accomplish that object."
On the motion of Sir R. PEEL, her Majesty's most gracious
Messages were ordered to be taken into consideration on Mon-
day next.

MR. SMITH OBRIEN.
Mr. ESTCOURT brought up a report from the Committee
on Group 11 of Railway Bills.
The Clerk read the report, which stated that at one o'clock
this day the Members comprising the Committee on Group
11 of Railway Bills were present in the Committee-room, and
that Mr. Smith O'Brien did not attend within one hour, the
time appoin ed.

The' SPEAKER called on Mr. Smith O'Brien.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN rose and said—Sir, I presume that
the object of this House, in calling upon me, is to give me an
opportunity of making an explanation to this House. I
feel obliged for this opportunity, but I have alrea ly stated
my views and intentions fully and finally in the correspondence
which has passed between myself and the Co,nmittee of Se-
lection. Ido not think it necessary to add anything to the
matters contained in thoJe letters, nor am I desirous of with.