The Sun.
London, England, 1846-01-30 00:00:00

hands of the Accountant-General as security on
the part of the railway company of
dthteliiartit intention
wasto proceed with their scheme,
a bona fide undertsking.—(llear, bear.) But. he ct4iTosni--
derea if they were to give ten thousand or. thirty
bills,or India
!Hid pounil3, value in Consols, Exchequer zonds, they were as good as Bank notes.. All tha'„ t:he
Bonds, wanted was security from companies ',`, their in-
tention to prosecute their schemes ; 11"-isi in acting on
the suggestion he now made he spl.'4eved all parties would
Ue benefited.—(Hear, bee:ie.) Whether the lep-its
::
were paid into the bands of the Bank of England
°r
tha
4eeelln'ant General, the course he recommended
ta°ll,3 ha satisfactory to all parties, and no difficulty
would P.ien arise.
s• e. RICARDO said it appeared to him of little
cor.;
- -9unce ae to in whose name railway deposits tight f;
•e whether in the name of one man in preference
to
14Pwnother, or as to who might be the party who made the
11:tient. If the Accountant-General invests the mercy
,141. order in the Bank of England,. then is the, Cer, in a o.ition to pay interest on it, and
I- lie doe; P *not, the Bank of England is
ettoot a, a
position to pay upon it. The securities of
cantsuntrY banks might have been taken were theret, not,o.
doubts a hether they had not made advances onlti, .tehoss..e
01. deposits in a very imprudent manner.
4" in this respect had acted with common
Prudence there weuld have been no difficulty at
ell 4
e ' IX great Heal of the inconvenience . nowf.
-°4?Piained of would have been avoided if, at the time o
ettegtsiration, a period was named for the deposits. to be
c. It might be stated that they should he paid by a
. flo• -44.4 day, say three or four months after the registr,tii-
;h of the Company. He thouelit it was easy to
eaiebe.
it?" when these deposits were first paid what would
ai.effect on the 13' bl circulation.
44r. MUNT 'd• le
couldnot help thinking
_ sale that he
..
that it se ' Z d
teats 'as t‘ery their own
the Government should
the e tcreecive their own securities as a payment into
h kP'4llo Treasury especially a hen they %sere only_ "mil as trustee fund, and he conc.eiv,ed,tt,t,lhl4.Chan
die " f the Exchequer was theowin,, •._ 1,1 " like
grace on their own credit. lie thought ,tic proposal
gory
land .., proper one, and if the Hon. Memberfeirt ahuimnishol-f-;
for ithad not made it he should have made
men, alMeared exceedingly strange that tlie Govn-
e,h should refuse to receive their own paper, especially.
en the d •
of expense to the
Public oing so would be a saving
Sir as well as inconvenience.
gela,;R• PEEL said that the express object of the r.e-
- til 104 complained of was to give relief to the public.
ineXolight that the parties a-Ito were chiefly interested
thi:"'s matter had had sufficient notice of the effect of
viva regulation to save themselves and those
W* ia Wh,4in they had to deal. That the rule
toelli- Qe attended with some inconvenience
ia
.tlae
'parties most immediately interested
d
th:atitlkwaYs.he could not deny. It was. welrlaunderstoo
e unsound
that the
of Parliament was to discourage beeligiati4n in railways, The deposit lead originally
ex..
teet, 34') low, that it offered no bar whatever to t_l_iaer...a..
atadinaccordingly
lithafitteletreantateeer "venient extent, of speculation, and P•li
.4 rlilemade the deposits required
_period 10. per cent., and at the tiie. that
site were was instituted it was well known that the depo-
1111dao to be paid in money to the Accountant-General,
Quit till stock., and the object of that rule was to prevent
hoe lierult 144141 speculation which the other rule had not
Qoeer-ringent enough to do, and thus the object of the
,out eh meet was served. The rule would by no means pre-
Withaaie discount of long bills, and if it interfered at all
(f
paper, :rt ,
t. t:e it would only do so with that class i 14lb-a 'ae" as bills which had only two or three months
"1.; parties
which werb generally presented for discount
aplattlets had unwisely used their funds in railway_
Pressorllims• It was intended that there should
lbde a
44latak ' hut he believed that Hon. Members woo be
iejoh en if they imagined that the pressure would be more
he at °till ilow than at a future period, or that it would
the . all relieved by the payments being in the hands of
liof tahecountent-General rather than in those of the. Bank
te al•ltud• Ile had given his most careful attention to
FR en and he perfectly agreed with his Right Hon.
etidr_vie N. With base" the Ch
He had had
many parties of the highest authority.
IllgtePtheiLience in the City, and they were convinced
toNat floe , Plan adopted would be the best
pea-luio be used for the purpose. But the ell d: that After a portion of the money had
it 4 4143%4414 tain interval should elapse before
n7tor, ;0.4 would, in his opinion, be unjust to the speeu-
it ho ought to have the earliest opportunity of gehte-
'44.,__emha,rneY back, should the railway in which
it Mr p M.
not pass the standine• orders.
the itite,;‘,tua STEW-ART rose to 6explain. He thought
,'",e teo,-,in between the depositing and the release of
,he -eY could be determined by fate of the Bill
s• eertiaad
. gill it. ~_,
~ by the proper authority.
- 441 '" r,I, objected, on the ground that the fate of
140tietist4. might slot
be decided for perhaps two or three
Ilett• STtea
s." it —1 41.1 T Why the standing orders are to
h su.r, •„
th-P teolie '34l:l•lsx' considered it would be hard to lock
-e f 1 far •
he a"te 41. th an indefinite time without interest until
He confessed, but
di esltlit he e.13i1l might be known.
lalcaraeta -,Mtetaleen, that he could not understand what
tt4!ltlste. 4.4 Would arise from the deposit of Exe.hequder-
',..t :Ita4, „of money.—(l-lear.) The object of the e-
ar, " a sae, 'flat the Governmsnt l'el the
telsiia
lased t° obtaili an
p Psed t4iltY that the undertaking for which
it was
ulic might
Act of Parliament was of a bymi
e suture, lie hoped the House would well consider
Th j'et.--(Ile Is
th e cm,st. r, near.)
43 Che: I'4l ot the adjournment was then put from
.r, and declared carried.
~,Lo Asti,. TEN HOURS' BILL.
' LordeT `4',EY laid on the table a petition in favour
Lo e 4 li.nr, •
le rti Asti, ,• Bill for the regulation of labour. .
is dute
tin'Al' •
said he felt it
Petit, ij ' the again rose, and
to ve Y „tk.!
that the
respectfully but
tif the;," factory-- -"'• that the decision come to
Ile ojr,,,''''''', that brilles,,tiPil.
tbe a'
-4." say ,es
Ministers.
"tuh , 0 from teed- e
ti,
wad
f L :aerdere37.lBal°rgileot hseejorrnMitoyatjeosfttyhthose gentle.
!itte /e feelie,,, of
tli,f)sittori must be the best acquainted
't'llSr-M Of Oil; lue commercial and manu.FacturiNng
Ito than 33
outeonnt
rY,SUnported his proposition.. hot
siOse for the , of 42 of those Members voted in t a
Illort wOlO-1- ea 110:tirs' Bill,
atidie°!'er, h," be given him on the present occasion.
and be did hope a similar
see_ialeiskee' was certain that the most anxious and
and ass
orsi de.ire was felt out of that House for the
arena It deaefte 13111—(Hear hear)—a desire unabated,
ath, ",,,,e which
twos'wa every day gathering new
tie lalkaslittlearlY years had elapsed since
oki,he lid that question for the consideration
Pas ' eonae,44Be, and he hoped the House
dttalted bet,mer that a full and sufficient interval had
N:411 bet, me
ri of that Bill and the intro-
tit), or Itiknother. The country was decidedly in fa-
ioe, t.he it;e' a Measure, and he hoped it would meet
leac It sy'PrOhation of that House also. —(Hear, hear.)
41laji'g °tTcl he his great endeavour to abstain from
Plit ^y 4 -"e use by the production of evidence
d Lt a e ofte
14e ad eth 4 put before them in the shape of re-
br)qaeta eriau.
He believed that it would be a
tiaa,,,thosage tohis cause if he did not refresh their memory
!Pore. thets4Nects ; but, however, he would willingly
;11 'gel ' 4ovantage rather than appear to trespass
1 th t' time Slot e to 'be, and he could do so with less reluctance
this eve„,l4estioe was narrowed to this—Could the
hiqs? went be effected without injuring the
Pit I it° off4hat was the simple proposition he
e-t Well„,edte,' 'Y Y, could it be denied that a great mo-
glitea ?„,"),1114 accrue by the limitation of the hours
1141-01 tik\h"'.. e•ar, hear.)- He wo.uldi detail to them a
i44.1417e, iv„!rttnents connected with this subject. Mr.
iNb":_ste, Kntletriatt who hadv7y extensive mills in
enough to send his
117xtN4._ Tim It:101_ Preston:
(Lord Ashley)
1(7 ba.4llt of,ea to goodLond9nwatsogive him
h_th,z4ukee.:7llle experiments which he had tried in
:41 7 se,
.._..ory. He (the Noble Lord) put to
They were so
I,lileetT.llee e"le,:l. questions, the ans vers to which they
4 th'44iy .tinnaitud to writing. 0. t,* 4 important that he must apologize
)
Zte-wwdieer°llse for reading them.—(Hear,
l ve.n
N'tlt.4l.lt • Ilid--" I have tried the effect ofeleven
the
t„,apatof aorZateed of twelve hours, and I find that
i,'t the't IN
doneiq! not reduced at all, but, on the contrary.
!i4,4'lls,,;tili_etioo, in that time. He (the Noble Lord) then
as
Eti;l4 wisr4.n en how it waS that the tarn were able to do
isentaia. ` that 4: hour,. as in twelve hours? The. answer_
'4O ~tistO 'eehied e men were better able to do their work
bout Wei to have more rest at night." The next
111 44ut ti + whether the work was better done in the
the 4 mad din
_the the
period ? The answer was.
/P 0; 3eeition ecidedly better done in the eleven hours.
No *hut the
sh was whether there Was any advantage in
col v°
h tilt ill *rter time? and the an was that there
11,t! eit^ears. %ease in favour or the "levee over the
lie,,tter 'pee I(the Noble Lord) thenevek d hours
if there was
40'oritoorol,n1e? '14,1,he health of the asked
from the
wetl: °f 141,1741.teriiii the answer eras, that .. they
• „,doess.„*." 4t• Yln health fthereduction in the
tart -.7 ale '-'ee d • s to the ins
ronl
Ot (It id ti,,t :314.4 ot
le influence of the shorter period
""t 0: tstts,i, the va t'e employed the foreman of the
,e eer,lott ay.- (440111 4'4 bad be - ' ident and
!h, ter, -..ltered
was th eotne more prov
14 re•ult wa and the was vattettatelves at the needle." ' The
It!•betWeen S %lid to zpioyeerket to the feeling between
otioos
to both
„.
_. a graa,eY the change of hours,and
Lifelpiters to 4,otbees,
wqrties a 4 r degree of confidence exis
kt•cl'..4"ll Were • 'ls.e experi e (Lord Ashley) had pute
th,stiti
ei:ner, aal InUilar to e was very great, and tsti
1 144 qUesti °St respect those, already read to the Hoti.e.
ON two holt cia that ii tootle man said that he believed
,klie hef iaLeti:sv the
dathere
Yth was More bad work done in
I,,p'ti 4f also • Ther - than at any other period of tbe
t:h►th,:nee
hr., tnade
pz e
,was a Mr. Noles of Bolton,
, v;;illet. "14,_ that iia- I:verireents, and the result of his
(4'ii,et
path, i_sf)stesn____., 4 eold not again go back to the
telluh°o44S hi Bear,
hear.
) A
ether gentleman,
Ntil ANA de_i, s work, iet_ had about six months ago,
ly a .aateely in „; mad of twelve hours a-day, and
to
tile)_
.4).had also
„I our of the Ten liours' Bill. He
I_o ,ii_qa ~,e'fiel ion VoZtiar answers which went to carry out
,tit. ate), trh. all froni` , these evidences of the ten hours'
i I,tt ee, -to them which
it ,ii7teited4,it attentiotresPectable gentle
House
and the Hotu.
;tiro. ' Chet 44 of th obeses were the a • thme'n' e importance of ton
ai 1 tie snar, -sPernnents of last year in
IP wage, h., ro, and in every instanee it bud been
oisioorir te-'en tell'eLn!,t diminished, and the' condition of
th I; ttte iioVta.ntage, mr)roved ; e understood that
~t, ),,,,ali IL,. ele we„nad been themeslt. He was very
Nkil'ir 1,„"11011 of prtas Jhe eff.ect of the limitation of wages
"i. tltilel9,
wrkt tittt Per, pealed a a• Ihe King of Prussia had in
waits ii,,t4 tinder the decree limiting the hours of labour
set 4‘.4t111t *t% in full age oft 6. That decree had existed
Itatrt, 4
it, of it ?
r. operation at the present time. What
Ot'')ti Ntj 'ltettleot rile hail received an
.answer to some in-
t;ttl he thee ir°4l Elberf lds, which said that in the
:tlPt).
rilaii ttletit,lteereea ?i,ll(l,.i.naninutione of wages had taken place.
Ottet,
tki
it e_ et. .
also g . the hours of labour had been a
tii,,:t Deg, . ee het 40 said that the law exerrised a salu-
ve, Pe. 7.,.- Physical andmoral •''
lei, al, ei eat ati,,,, condition of the
1 N t io e hid
.er came from the manufacturers
‘ m 4
kt
Bret dirilin
.reeeived another answer,• which 1
q.k,:,,,h,„ 4 444°4 of wages had taken place. Thaesroe
I‘A, tr t,.;`5 lirosei'l'a feeling against the law, but this sub-
iclitt iltti,trta (Nur:4a' effects were foiled. He had received
Osdt N 44 h,teent, whi.Put bY him to the Secretary of the
_ el, en shor,_ ch seaasse that, wherever the hours of
0, le , reft,, rezied not nele remonstrance had been
11,1 ti it -e to it, a - .
the The pe 1 and no resistance had been
-vap,tl Y teared°P eptertained some doubts at
titlite . toreign competition, but they
44140 with the arrangement.

The people of France had also followed their example; for t
though they had objected at first, a law had been
the regulations of factories, which we" ..arced for
own. Russia had -a
transcript of their
plc of Russia. also fel!-s-vieCl the same example. The pert-
t-stm ar 'srimatis of the moral and physical ad,
~ss such a regulation would produce, had seen thh pfo-
priety of adopting a Meistite of this hinds The elperience of
the success of the principle had operated in this Manner on
these otottitilb3, and not only these countries, but every otheb
boontry he was persuaded, would be tompelled io dory it out.
He would now pass cn front thla review of the results, to the
general consideration of the influence of factory regulations on
the physical, moral, and financial condition of the manufactur-
ing population of this country. He requested the attention
of the House while he referred to several productions Which
were made in 1833, when he first undertook the introduction
of what was called the Ten Hoist's' Bill. There were four pre-
dictions contineally rung in the ears of the House, and were
the arguments continually employed by the opponents
of the Bill to defeat this measure. The first prediction
was, that if the Bill passed the cotton trade would be destroyed—
that an end would be put to the great staple branch of national
industry. The second prediction was, that the wages of the
operatives would be diminished. The third prediction was,
that the wages of the children would be reduced, so that they
ould receive only a fractional payment for their labour. And the
fourth prediction was, that the number if children employed
would be di minished,and that great physical suffering would ensue.
He would now come to the results of those predictions. And
first, he would take the effect f the limitation of wages occa-
sioned by the reduction of the hours of labour, and he would,
in the first place, appeal to the year 1831, when the first Act
was passed for reducing those hours ; and then would, in the
second place, bring forward the period after labour was pro-
tected, and show that the wages had not been diminished.
In the year 1831 the first Bill had been passed for the limitation
of those who were called young persons. Those were persons
between the ages of fourteen and eighteen years. In 1831 an
Act had been passed which limited the labour of those young
persons to twelve hours in the day ; asid it was asserted that
the effect of this measure would be to reduce the wages of those
individuals. Now, how far was that assertion, that protection
would injure wages, founded in truth ? In 1833, before this
protection was granted, the wages of those indiv duals had, on
an average, been ss. 4d. per week, while, after that protection
was granted, the average rate of wages was 6s. 11d. per week,
showing not less a rise than upwards of thirty per cent. These
facts were drawn from returns made from the four great manu-
facturing towns of Bolton, Preston, Oldham, and Manchester.
Now, in the third place, with reference to the wages of those
distinguished as children. Before 1833 the average
rate of wages of these children was 3s. Id. per week.
Before the Bill which limited the mark of children under
thirteen years of age, the time of these children
was eight hours. By that Bill the time was reduced to six
hour, and although the average rate of wages was reduced to
2s. 2d., yet it was rather an apparent than a real diminution,
for though there was an abatement, yet it was not at all equiva-
lent to the relief, and the families were in fact far better off than
before, for a great demand for children had been created, and
where only one child was employed before, two were now re-
quired. Now he would allude to the fourth prediction. In
order to do so it would be necessary for him to enter into some
minute details, but he hoped the House would pardon his so
doing, on the ground that they were essential for the purposes
he had in view. The next point raised was that children would
suffer physically. He begged them to see how far that predic-
tion had been verified. It was extremely difficult to obtain a
return of the number of children under 13 years of age, em-
ployed in 1833, but those who knew were aware that very few
had received any education at all. Now he would assert that
there were under 13 years of age, working six hours a day, and
receiving three hours education each day, no less than 30,000
children.—( Hear, hear.) Before the year 1833 there
were scarcely any children receiving education. The
increase of children attending school since 1833 was at
the rate of 8 to I.—( Hear.) On the other hand, the increase
of children attending school, above 13 years of age, who were
kept at work during the full period was almost nothing. He
would now call attention to the opinions expressed by the
Committee of Operative Spinners—a body which had been
opposed to the introduction of the law which limited children to
half time, because it pressed heavily upon them. He would be
glad to give them the opinion of those who had been opposed
to the half time system. For every year their condition was
much improving, but particularly since 1844. Now, mark
this—for several years the labour of these children had de-
creased to some extent, and during that period a great im-
provement had taken place in their moral and physical
condition ; to such an extent, indeed, that he did not despair
hut before long they would occupy positions fit for human
beings.—( Hear, hear.) The hand.loom weavers now declare
that so great is the benefit resulting to them
and their children, by working for a limited period, that
before they would work longer they would part with their last
shilling. Now, he heard this statement with great satisfaction,
and he believed he might appeal to the Hon. Gentleman op-
posite, the Member for Durham (Mr. Bright), as to the vast
improvements that would take place by the shortening of the
hours of labour.—(Hear.) The great benefit that had been
felt by them on getting their holidays, and the renewed energy
with which they returned to their labour after such holidays,
was, he considered another proof of the benefit of shortening
the hours of labour. He would say that there was something
very cruel in taking children from their parents at a tender
age, and exacting from them labour, such as the most grown
could hardly support or endure.—( Hear, hear.) These
children are engaged during the whole period of twelve
hours out of the twenty-four, a period during which adults in
vigorous health carry on their labour. `A, ell, now observe
what au effect this produces on the community. That it is a
matter of vital importance to the peace and welfare of this
country that women should be brought up with some know-
ledge of domestic arrangements, so as to enable them to dis-
charge their duties, has ever been an admitted fact. Yet,
how was it possible that they should learn those duties when
they returned home in a state of exhaustion? How was it
possible, he would ask them, that they could learn any of the
necessary details in which consist the comforts of the working
man's home? It is another admitted fact by lawyers, commis-
sioners, and statesmen, that on the condition of the women in
the manufacturing towns depends the social welfare and happi-
ness of the men. A friend of his residing in the neighbour-
hood of several large factories, and who erected two night
schools for the purposes of giving some instruction in reading,
writing, and needle-work, informed him that the anxiety evinced
by these poor people to receive instruction was very great.
These schools were opened twice a-week, and on the first night
of their opening forty young men and thirty-eight young
women entered immediately. So great was the fatigue under-
gone during the day that although they observed an earnest
desire to receive instruction their physical powers would not
endure it. Four or five used to be found asleep at a time, and
at length, after the space of a few months, the classes were
deserted by all but five. They were asked the cause of this
desertion, and they answered that they could not spend their
evenings at school as they had to be up at five o'clock in the
morning, and that owing to their short rest at night they
found it almost impossible to keep awake. Thus the school
that was opened for their benefit was compelled to be shut up,
although they were eager to attend it. There was, in another
country, an establishment where a different state of things
existed—where twelve hours of labour was considered to be
sufficient for health and moral improvement. The law he
referred to was a law at Lowell, in the United
States. He would begin by assuming that the hours
of labour in both countries were the same, that
was to say twelve hours a day. Dr. Bartlett, who
wrote a book called 't The Institutions of Lowell,"
said that a statute existed, by which no person under fifteen
years of age was allowed to work more than nine months out
of the year.—(Hear, hear.) The other three months were to
be passed at school. That law was enforced with unflinching
strictness, so that in Wino of scarcity no infraction of it is ever
heard of or allowed. He (Dr .Bartlett) had stated that he never
knew an instance of any person under fifteen years of age
working more than nine months out of the year. What was
the case in the English factories? Why children who had at-
tained the age of 13 years were admitted to twelve hours' work for
the whole year. They de not begin at such an early age as
they do in England. Out of 2,000 gtrls employed at Lowell,
who had been indiscriminately examined, the average age was
twenty-three years. In one mill, of 657 girls employed in it,
the average age was 2'2 years. The average time these had
been employed was 3* years, making them about nineteen
years of age when they entered the factory. Thus,
while nineteen years of age was the average age of girls
entering factories in Lowell to work twelve hours a day, in
England the age was thirteen at which children were called on
to work twelve hours a day.—( Hear.) In another mill in
Lowell the average age of the girls employed was twenty-three
years, and they had been engaged in the factory for four years,
making the age of entry, as in the other case, nineteen years.
The peculiar characteristics of Lowell had been shown in an
authentic work, lately published in America, by the Hon.
Henry A. Miles, who had written the work at the solicitation
of the proprietors of Lowell, who had furnished. the writer every
statistical information. Thewriter in thet work in question
pointed out the great distinction between
.* There is no permanent factory population. and the factory operatives of this countr
etsh seary si
—de
gulph which separates the English manufacturing townsis
Lowell. In the latter place only, a few of the operative haverom
their home ; the great proportion came from distant parts of
the country, the girls being principally the daughters of far-
mers." Mr. Miles further states, that, on an average, the girls
.elfTlee:Piii:;(ll Lowell
do not work more than four and a half years at the factory ;
they return home, and their places are taken by new comers.
Look at the operatives in this country ; they spend their whole
lives in the factories ; but in Lowell the average was only four-
and. a-half years, after which they gave up a factory occupation.
The labourers resident in this country were all their lives de-
voted to this business, and constituted a permanent caste.
Their labour was continued from year to year, and how was it,
he asks, that the English visitor found it so difficult to under-
stand the difference between the manufacturing population of
America and their own. How is it that there is such a diff-r.
ence between the population of Lowell and that of Leeds or
Manchester. Why, indeed, should there be—why, indeed?
Yet there is. Because the class of females in Lowell are of a
very different order to those of the same class in Manchester.
Now, he would look at the statistical return of the female
operatives in Lowell, and see what a difference there was between
the places he had named. Out of the 6,320 female operatives
of the former place he found that no less than 350 of them had
been teachers in public schools, and in addition to that there
was also the fact that the women of that place were only accus-
toined to factory labour about four and a half years of their
lives, and that a great portion of them were married women
In the town of Lowell. Yet he found that there was the same
predominance of female labour in Lowell that there was in
either of the two manufacturing towns in England which he
had named, and after that fact was stated he thought that
some other cause must be looked for than the
corn-laws for the misery and wretchedness which
harrassed the manufacturing population. The total popu-
lation of Lowell was 30,1.00, and of the whole the manufac-
turing population was 10,000, arid of those 10,000 2,915 were
men, while there were 6,320 women. It should be remem-
bered that, in America. there is nothing like commercial re-
striction. Trade is completely free and unfettered. There is
nothing to prevent the master from doing whatever seems
him right, and yet we have the same complaint in Lowell
that there is Manchester—the same complaint of excessis
labour, premature decay, sinking health, and early gravel,
He would next. quote from a public document which had been
presented to the House of Representatives of the State of
Massachusetts in 1845, and see what course
and ew( it
astackomenptlahienreed.
It was a petition, signed by 9,131 persons,
of the excessive duration of labour ; and it should be remems
bared, that the parties who signed that petition were in the
prime of, life, who only began their work at nineteen years of
age, and continued their labour for an average period of four
and a half years, at the rate of ten hours a day. The peti-
tioners went on to say that they were confined from thirtesn
to fourteen hours per day in unhealthy apartments, and were
thereby hastening, through paio, disease, and privation, down
to a premature grave. If there was any truth—if there was
any force in that statement—how much more must
be the statement of the English operatives, who
commenced their toil at eight years of age, in
close and unhealthy towns, continued their labour to the
latest hour that their physical energies could support them.
( Hear, hear.) What opinion, he would ask, did the Special
Committee, to whose consideration that petition was referred,
Come to? Thee said, we think that many improvements may
be made in various ways, and we are of opinion it would be
far better if the hours of labour were less, if more time was
allowed for meals, and if more attention was paid to ventilation
and pure air." The Committee proceeded to comment with
very great severity, and in many cases unfairness, on the stateof
,E. nglish factories and the people engaged in them, and stated
that they acknowledged the claims of the petitioners, but that
the remedy was not with them, They further ventured to en-

.ertain a hope that the hours of labour would be materially de-
creased, and they stated that they looked for such alteration in
the progressive improvement in arts and sciences—in a higher
appreciation of man's final destiny—in a less love for money,
Ail, in I More ardent hate for Intellectual attainment—
( ear, heaf.) Such was the report of the Special Commit-
tee. That Cdrrimittee had pasted en *hieh he (the
Noble Lofd) eciiisidered Was applicable in almost every
rcapect to the case he had brought before the Houle. It
would, he maintained, be well for all parties if this
long-agitated question could be finally settled in a satisfactory
manner.—( Hear, hear.) If the House would not give the
o a np;erda
et i vae
pmo
ratni
ounfa catturers all they
least,
an
d wanted,let
he hoped
success
ess or it would
failure
deter-
mine
whether the remainder should be conceded.—( Hear,
hear.) Nothing could be easier than to repeal a law, if the ef-
fects were found to be prejudicial. If the law was not bene-
ficial, the rperatives would be the first to exclaim against it, and
agitate its repeal. Without some such management as that
which he had proposed, he was quite sure that the entire mass
of the manufacturing classes would never desist from their ef-
forts. He assured the House the manufacturing operatives of
England only gathered strength from each disappointment.
He never knew them more unshaken in their determination, or
more courageous than at the present time, when they were ask-
ing the House to concede to their just and their reasonable de-
mand.. They were fortified in their resolve by the cotempora-
neous efforts of other classes, who, by perseverance and unity
of purpose. had always been successful in obtaining the conces-
sion of equitable demands. They were also encouraged by
the fact that wherever they presented their claims to the
notice of the House, they had been treated with kindness, and
listened to with considerable attention. He forebore from
bringing before the House a quantity of evidence contained in
speeches and reports, all tending to prove the hardships and phy-
sical privations which the operative portion of the community
endured. He was aware that, in consequence of the non-pro-
duction of such evidence, he laboured under considerable disad-
vantage, but he was actuated in the course he had pursued, from
a desire not to trespass too long on the attention
of the House. He had also omitted various statements, tending
to show that there would be no abatement of wages in conse-
quence of the diminished hours of labour, but that if there
should be, it would be more than compensated for by a system
of judicious economy. He did think that certain hours should
be set apart for the education of the children. It was not
only necessary that they should give time to the children to
learn, hut that they should give them time to study what they
had learned. They give, by their present system of educa-
tion, a certain amount of teaching to children under thirteen
years of age, but females, who constitute so large a portion of
the manufacturing population, and who were so important a
portion of society, were in a great measure unsexed by their
constant abstraction from domestic duties, which they alone are
best able and best fitted by nature to discharge.—( Hear. )
Sir, we did not stir up the feelings of the people as we might
have done, on this measure.—( Hear, hear.) They did no
such thing ; and he would say, to the honour of the working
classes, that they never indulged in vindictive expressions
against any measures of that House.—( Hear, hear.) It will
be a fatal night when you shall throw out thi. Bill, for you
will thereby shut out all hope of improvement, either social
or moral, from a vast body of people. He did ask of
them, though he should never again raise his voice in that
House, that they would be careful, lest in throwing out that
Bill, they might not widen that breach, which was already a
deep and yawning gulf, which already separated the rich from
the poor. The differences in the different grades of society
—he would rather say classes—was very broady laid down.
'1 he numberless luxuries of mind and sense were enjoyed pro-
portionally by almost all classes, while the poor and over-toiled
operatives were the only ones excluded from the common en-
joyment. The contrast is seen and felt, and is resented. The
repetition of these things would be useless. He had before
subjected them to their notice, and though he had but little
hope of succeeding, from the influence which would be exerted
against him, he would never desist from raising his voice for
the protection of the overtoiled operatives. For the last two
or three years he had accumulated such an amount of odium,
that he feared there was such a feeling against him, as left him
little hope for a successful termination of his endeavours in the
present session. He, however, trusted to the judgment of the
House to give the subject their most careful consideration.
Should he be defeated now, he would however go on, never
abating one inch till he gained that happy result, which he felt
so important a question demanded from the Legislature.
Should this country wish to keep up her power, the cause of
the poorer classes should not be neglected.
The SPEAKER having put the question—That leave be
given to bring in the Bill ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, he would inform the Noble
Lord that, on the part of the Government, he was not about
to offer any opposition for leave to bring in the present Bill.
The Noble Lord had on this occasion discharged his duties
most ably and impartially. He (Sir James Graham) was,
however, of opinion that the Act of 1844 had gone far towards
settling the many difficulties between the employers and the
employed. The Noble Lord had stated many instances of
manufacturers who had made experiments on the short hour
system, and the results which he read to the House were favour-
able. Since the year 1833, some of the children had their
work limited to six hours, and the labour of females was in
some cases limited to twelve hours. Any person from thirteen
to eighteen years of age was restricted from working more
than twelve hours at any time. The result of their legislation
had been, that the manufactures of cotton, wool, silk, and flax
had been affected by it, and that no man would be allowed to
work in any mill for more than 12 hours. He must say that the
limitation of labour was a very dangerous experiment in a
country, which depended a good deal on its manufactures.
The Noble Lord had adverted to the state of the law in other
countries. He (Sir J. Graham) was sure that the Noble
Lord knew that it mattered little what the state of the law was
in other countries. And what was the state of the Statute-book
at Lowell ?—as, before any reliance could be placed on the ex-
ample set of a foreign country, it was necessary to understand the
circumstances under which that example was set. It was not
enough to see the law, but the circumstances under which it
was framed. The Noble Lord had brought on this question
eight or nine t mes before, but had never moved it under the
present form. The Noble Lord, as he had said, represented a
great portion of the manufacturing community, and had ad-
verted to the magnitude of the question as affecting their inte-
rests. lie ( Sir J. Graham) did think that, while it was the
duty of the House to consider the hopes and expectations of
the working classes with reference to this question, it was
also their duty to consider the real interests and welfare of those
classes whose interests and whose welfare would be so deeply
affected by this measure. With reference to the general in-
dustry of the country this question was of paramount import-
ance ; but as his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel) had made
a statement to the House of the intention of the Government
to remove restrictions on several articles that entered largely
into the consumption of all classes, he thought it would
be expedient to postpone the decision of the House, as
the question introduced by the Noble Lord till
the sense of the House was taken en the proposition brought
forward by his Right Hon. Friend respecting the supplying of
corn, and the law which regulates it. Respecting the particu-
lar question under discussion, he was however bound to inform
the House, that nothing he had heard on the subject could
change his unalterable opinion ; that it was impolitic further to
interfere with the regulation of factory labour. Certainly no
argument the Noble Lord had used in introducing his proposi-
tion, could induce him to support the Bill ; still considering the
importance of the measures proposed by his Right Hon. Friend
Sir R. Peel, while he (Sir J. Graham) thought the opinion of
the House should be postponed, he had no objection under pre-
sent circumstances, and considering the great and growing in-
terests concerned, in order that the Bill might be fully ex-
amined, to allow the motion of the Noble Lord. On these
grounds he consented to the introduction of the Bill.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND cordially supported the
Noble Lord. He recollected sixteen years ago, when the
venerable Member of the West Riding of Yorkshire introduced
the question, that it was then predicted great injury would ensue
by any interference with factory labour. He had however lived
to see legislation tried on the question, the hours of labour of
children reduced from 15 or 16 hours a day, to 8 hours, and
afterwards to 6 hours, and yet the ruin predicted had not occurred.
He thought the measures which had been adopted had been of
essential service to the country, and he thought that if another
step were taken in legislation, that a great benefit would be ob-
tained for the community. The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to
think that this was the wrong time to take this step. He must
beg to say that he took a different view of the matter, for they
were going to accomplish another great measure, and this was,
therefore, one of the most convenient seasons of all. They
were going to repeal the corn-laws. He had always been an
advocate for the repeal of the corn-laws, because he believed
that that repeal would conduce largely to the prosperity of com-
merce and manufactures. If it did do so, it would contribute
also to the demand for labour; labour would be required, and
for that very reason this was precisely the opportunity for
legislating on this great subject. But perhaps the Noble Lord
would be content at the present time to take a modification of
his measure, and if he could not obtain a ten hours' Bill, he
would be satisfied with eleven hours. There never was a time
when there was a better understanding between the manufac-
turers, and the men than at the present moment, and he thought
the operatives would be ready to meet the masters in a com-
eparopmreissseinogn
histh apod
aotfi
otni moef
the
fn
soot
ms iet
od
fo wt
then wl
ei
at
dh
nugt
p.m arni
efancttuorferas.
reduction
ti
knewf someh wu
rhs o
ofhad
Ia
ht ro i
ue
rd, t
ah
ni is gt rheeayt
he
ax d-
found that it was invariably attended with advantage Mr. TRELAWNEY rose and said, the NobleL.ord ought
to be the last person in society to attack the rights of property.
LHoerd(l%:Ar.shTlerye)law.naesym)otrheoluigkehlty
if the hours of labour were diminishwereasndwotuhladt ctohmee
Nobledown
that
tdo harm thavnatt food by his
Lap He would not then make any otherobser
Lord JOHN MANNERS said he heard with the greatest
pleasure that no obstruction would be given to the measure of
his Noble Friend (Lord Ashley), although the corn-laws were
to be repealed. He thought the arguments of the Noble Lord
were good, and that various and sufficient proofs were given.
He would be curious to know how her Majesty's Ministers
would oppose the measure of his Noble Friend (Lord Ashley),
after they had carried the repeal of the corn-laws. He was
convinced that they could do nothing to conciliate the feelings
of the op. relives so much as the measure now proposed by his
Noble Friend.—(Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he would say,
that he would give the most determined support to the Bill of
his Noble Friend.

Mr. HUME observed that he had always been accustomed
to believe that the time and labour of the artisan was his
capital, and that any interference to stop or prevent him
from exercising it as he pleased would be a great hardship
and piece of tranny. Now, about twenty-three years ago,
no three men could meet to talk over their affairs, or say they
were hard worked, or seek for an additional shilling, with-
out being liable to be indicted for a conspiracy. He had
known instances where men were transported for going, in a
quiet and peaceable way, and demanding an increase of wages.
Well, Parliament swept away all these laws, and it was made
lawful for every labourer to meet with any number to talk over
their station, and to arrange how many hours they should
please to work. He happened to be at Macclesfield when the
Bill for repealing the short time came into operation, and he
remembered that the greatest misery prevailed there from a
turn-out for an increase of wages. He wished that his Noble
Friend would withdraw his Bill, for if this principle were car.
ried out it would actually, instead of doing good, bring
great misery upon the class whom the Noble Lord
sought to relieve. He knew petitions had been presented, and
that petitions had been signed ; but when the proper time had
arrived for discussing this case, he way perfectly convinced that
all the arguments adduced by the Noble Lord would be
answered to the conviction of every Member. There was one
part of the Noble Lord's speech with which he was quite pre-
pared to go, and that was the erection of schools, to which
the children would be compelled to go in order that they
might acquire those principles which might be of use to them
in after life—those principles which w mld preserve them from
crime. The measure would, in his opinion, be an unjust inter-
ference with the rights of capital and property. He regretted
the condition of the working classes, but he was of opinion
that the measure would deteriorate instead of im-
prove their condition. Besides, its adoption would
materially injure the manufactures. But the Noble Lord
should bear in mind that the agricultural classes were in a more
wretched condition than any other portion of the community ;
and if the condition of these people was so lamentable, they
should adopt a measure which would benefit all alike. The
cry, " Let industry be free," was now heard throughout the
country ; but the Noble Lerd wanted to shackle indUstry, and
to prevent the employer and employed to make their own terms
as to the number of hours he should work, and the wages he
should receive. But coercion—and the measure was, in his opi-
nion, a coercive one—would, prevent the manufacturers from
taking steps to alleviate the condition of the persons in their
employ ; for which purpose; the combination laws were swept
away. On these grounds he opposed the introduction of the aiti.

-

E SUN, LONDON, PRI DAY lIVEN ING. JANITAKI 30. 1846.

one of the most experienced, intelligent, and huiiiine ftieh,
and one who had ever proved himself the friend of the poor.—
( Hear, hear.) He was a practical man, and not one that
would run through granite after principle.—(Laughter.) He
(Mr. Wakley) would ask the Hon. and Learned Member, if
infants were to be slaughtered?—(Hear, hear.) 1-le (Mr.
Wakley) had heard with much pleasure the address of the
Hon. Aramber for Oldham, and coming from him it ought to
have great weight The Hon. Member employed thousands of
persons, and worked up a 100th part of the cotton imported into
ihir country—(Hear)—and he was not afraid of any evil re-
sulting from a Ten Hours' Bill. He (Mr. Wakley) would call
the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) to
the statement of that Hon. Member, and ask him to say if he
still retained his " unalterable opinion." It was rather rash,
after what had passed the last few days, for men to talk of un-
alterable opiuions, seeing the great change the Government had
manifested in their former faith. He gave them full credit for
the change of opinion, but he had no sympathy with those who
denounced such a change on other questions.—(Hear, hear.)
He hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would reconsider the
question. He was sorry to hear him say he would oppose the
Bill. It was said the working classes could protect themselves,
and he thought so too, provided they were represented in the
House, for he was persuaded if they were duly represented
there, that a session would not pass before a Ten Hours' Bill
was passed. All that the Noble Lord asked was protection for
infants, who could not protect themselves, and if that was not
the object of legislation he did not know what was. Wealth
and intelligence could protect themselves. The Hon. Member
for Montrose (Mr. Hume) admitted that he would extend
education to the mind; and now all that was asked was to carry
the powers a little further—to carry out physical education.
In conclusion, he hoped the Noble Lord, when he introduced
his Bill, would adduce facts and arguments that could not be
doubted, and he also wished that the Right Hon. Baronet
would give a candid consideration to the question, and see it
right to give his support to the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE said it had done his heart good to
listen to the speech of the Hon. Member for Finsbury. His
principle was better than the principle of the Noble and
Learned Member for Bath, or the Hon. Member for Durham.
He hoped also the Right Hon. Baronet would fully consider
the questi n, and would weigh it over, as he was about to
throw the labourers of this country;open to the competition of
the world. The fActory operations ought to be protected, and
in this opinion he had the experience of the Hon. Member for
Rochdale, and the medical knowledge of the Hon. Member for
Finsbury-
Mr. S. CRA WFORD expressed himself in favour of the
measure. He had taken some pains to ascertain the opinions
of the opera ives of Rochdale, and they were generally in favour
of the Ten Hours' Bill. He had, on former occasions, sup.
ported the Noble Lord, and he would cordially support him
now.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. Al LINTZ would readily admit tbat the argument was
sound that the general labour of the country should be regula-
ted. As far, however, as regarded the cotton factories, he
knew that so long as the manufacturers kept their engines at
work, so long would they keep their work-people at labour. In
the cotton districts the labour of women and children was pre-
ferred to that of men. The women were working in the facto-
ries while the men were walking about with nothing to do.
This fact he had heard from several sources, and he considered
that such a condition of things was not proper. He should vote
for the Noble Lord's motion, because he thought it would be
for the benefit of the manufacturing classes.
Lord ASHLEY said he wished to make a few remarks upon
what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Durham. The
Hon. Member hail made a personal charge against him (Lord
Ashley), and be felt desirous to offer an explanation. He was
sorry to observe the Hon. Member was not in the House, as
he had particularly requested him to remain in. The year
before last, he (Lord Ashley) was residing in the county of
Lancaster with his friend the Hon. Member for Oldham.
Whilst there, he remembered he was within a short distance of
Rochdale, where were mills belonging to the Hon. Member for
Durham. (He might state that he had then been over many
mills in the country, and was thoroughly conversant with the
working of them.) Well, he did go from his friend's house at
Oldham over to Rochdale, simply and solely that he might call
at the country house of the Hon. Member for Durham to see
him, or otherwise to leave his name. Why did he do this ?
Because in that very House the Hon. Member had attacked
him in a manner which he considered altogether unjustifiable ;
but as he had afterwards retracted what he had said, he (Lord
Ashley) thought that he would be, in colloquial phrase, acting
like a gentleman if he called upon him in a friendly manner.
The Hon. Member was out, and he (Lord A) saw his brother,
who asked him to look over the works. He (Lord A.) said

Mr. ESCOTT said, as there would be a discussion on the
second reading of the Bill, he should take that opportunity of
expressing his opinions at length respecting it ; but he wished
to call the attention of the House to one remark of the Noble
Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire. The Noble Lord bad
stated, in reference to a former decision of the House, taas it
was hit. a decision of the House of Commons, but a decision of
her Majesty's Ministers. This appeared to him a new doctrine
in that House. When the House of Commons, after a long debate,
rejected the measure on division, and because it was unpalatable,
to turn round and say it was not a decision of the House, but
of her Majesty's alinisters, was most improper. He had voted
against him, and should continue to do do so, and repeated tha
that was not the way to treat the House of Commons. Theret
were persons in the country interested in this question who did
not say it was rejected by her Majesty's Ministers, but that
the Noble Lord gave up the measure.—( Hear. 1 Now one
word upon the principle of the Noble Lord's measure. He said
it was necessary to have some laws to regulate the terms be-
tween the employers sod the employed. If that was the case,
why did not the Noble Lord introduce such a measure?—
! ( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord quotes from the blue book in
support of his principles, but he never quoted that authority
fully. There would be found in that book many cases which
would tell against the principles and arguments of the Noble
Lord. He would never agree that such a measure should become
a law. Such a measure as the one proposed by his Noble
Friend, would have the effecs of interfering with the interests of
the able workman. He was of opinion that there had been
much injury done to the able-bodied labourers by the mistaken
philanthropy of the Noble Lord.
Mr. COLQUHOUN thought it was most unfair towards his
his Noble Friend to say that he had not quoted the blue book
fully. If he were to do so, the House would be treated to
something like the American speeches, where the speaker at
times occupies the floor for a week.—( Laughter.) Now, his
Noble Friend had maintained those principles for years ; ho
never arrived at a conclusion without having first weighed the
cause which led him to it. Now, because these were the prin-
ciples which the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) held
in 1833, he still continued to assert that the opinions were de-
lusions, which would very soon be dispelled; why, what
would the Hon. Member say to any one who held such
opinions with respect to trade? He would have looked upon
them as too ridiculous, and a motion to that effect the lion.
Member would have laughed out of the house.—( Hear.)
What was the case ? they, as practical men of business, were,
after thirteen sears of experience, come to the consideration
of a practical subject. In 1833 he had voted with the Hon.
Member for Montrose against his Noble Friend. During the pe-
riod which had elapsed since their manufactures and commerce
had received a great impulse, and in the course of that time
it was a matter of notoriety that, where there bad been a re-
duction in the hours of labour, wages had not been diminished,
but they had in many instances been increased. When he
saw, then, that not only was there no injury done to either
commerce or manufactures, he felt bound to act with the
utmost cordiality with his Hon. Friend ; and when especially
he saw that in this case the impulse of policy and the claims of
humanity coincided, he saw no reason for resisting the motion
of the Noble Lord. Look to Ireland—why was it there were
no manufactures of importance in Ireland, but because the
population were in such a state of moral depravation, and if
they were to have England in the same state of social disorder,
where, he would ask, would be their manufactures a few years
hence; and for these reasons he would ask them to vote for
the resolution.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that he had voted for the previous
Bills because the objects of those Bills were unable to defend
themselves, but such was not the case with those for whom
the Noble Lord was interested ; they were in an altogether diffe-
rent position, for they were able to defend themselves.
lie would put the question in every possible light, that the price
of labour depends entirely upon the demand for the supply of
labour, and no Legislative interference will raise the supply of
labour. The taking away of Legislative restrictions did, in-
deed, raise the price of labour. —(Hear, hear.) We have seen
within the last few years a great increase in the demand for
labour; at present, comparatively, there was no labourer unem-
ployed. In proportion as the demand from the outside increased
the manufacturer was enabled to build manufactories, to erect
machines, and to furnish work for the labourer. The only way
of benefiting the labourer is to give full, free, and complete
development to the resources of labour. No Legislative attempt
at regulating labour will ever succeed ; but let it be left to itself
arid it will prosper. He was not inclined to place any confi-
dence in the statements of persons about improving the condi-
tion of the labourer by the power of Parliament. Any inter-
ference with labour was unnecessary. Leave it alone, and it will
find its own level. A great deal had been said about humanity,
of shortening the working hours of the labourer. The regu-
lation for humanity would be easily gained. In fact, there
was no sort of regulation that would be mere easily obtained
than that of humanity It was obtained without any personal
sacrifices, and without the exertion of any one of the cardinal
virtues.—( Laughter.) He would undertake to gain a reputa-
tion similar to that which the Noble Lord hail obtained in a
very short time. This legislative sort of humanity was a farce
—a mere pretence.—( Hear.) When, however, it came to
touch their pockets, people were net willing to come forward
and plead the cause of labour. To pretend to be the labourer's
friend, under the pretence of a few printed words, was hypocri-
tical as well as useless.
Mr. WODE HOUSE would support the Bill, on the grounds
that some regulation as regarded the hours of labour in the ma-
nufacturing districts was necessary.
Mr. P. HOWARD thought that a further legislative inter-
ference at present with the hours of labour, would not be at-
tended with any benefit to the class whose cause the Noble
Lord had advocated. If the Ten Hours' Bill were to be put in
force at all, he thought it would be better to be put in force by
the manufacturers themselves, and not by an Act of the Le-
gislature. In agriculture it would be difficnit, and in harvest
time impossible to limit the hours of labour ; and reasoning by
parity on manufacturing affairs, where any important business
pressed far immediate execution, to shorten the time of labour
would be attended with great inconvenience. He should pro-
test against the Bill being carried a further stage.
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL, who was nearly inaudible in
the gallery, was understood to say he should support the Bill.
Mr. BRIGHT said, that in the course of the observations
which have fallen from the Noble Lord, he had quoted from a
report, and complained that the report had stated the condition
of the manufacturing population with great unfairness. Now,
if the Committee who had drawn up that report had compiled
their information from the speeches which the Noble Lord
had made on several occasions, he would with reason have had
some grounds to complain of the unfairness of the statements
contained in the report, as respected the labouring population
of the country. There was no doubt that all were desirous
that the labouring population should, if possible, work less than
they do at present, and that they should possess in abundance
the comforts of life, but he thought that legislation would alto-
gether fail in bringing about the state of affairs that was de-
sired, by any measure of a similar nature to that before the
House. He had listened attentively to the Noble Lord, but he
had not learned from him, that when Mr. Gardner had reduced
the hours of his workmen, that any material ben: fit had re-
sulted. Mr. Gardner had partially succeeded in the experi-
ment, by diminishing the time allowed for breakfast, dinner,
and tea, which, added to an increased exertion on the part of
his workpeople, had enabled him to make up nearly the usual
time of labour, and produce as much manufactured goods as
before the experiment was tried. Mr Gardner had said that
he would still further decrease the hours of labour, but he,
(Mr. Bright) found that he had not made any further reduc-
tion in the time of his workpeople, and that his manager had
stated that a further reduction was not advisable. Now, the
Noble Lord does not know so much of the working of the ma-
nufactories as he ought to know, in meddling with questions
of that nature. The Noble Lord had once called upon the firm to
which he (Mr. Bright) belonged, and although requested to
go over the factory and inspect it, he had refused. He was
rather too much disposed to listen to one side of the question,
and to get information about the condition of the manufactur-
ing population more from hearsay than from actual inspection.
Respecting the demoralisation of the factory population talked
of, he had seen a statement published by Mr. Clay, the chaplin
of the Preston House of Correction. And what did he say ?
Why, that the female factory operatives were chargeable with
the smallest number of offences. There were 20 classes of
offenders, beginning with No. 1, which class was the highest
for offences, and going up to No. '2O, which was the smallest,
and the last class was the female operatives. No. 19 was the
domestic sers ants, and the male operatives was class 14. This
was a proof that the demoralisation and degradation spoken of
did not exist. Ile night say that, generally, in the factory
districts, the evils hitherto complained of were diminishing at a
rapid rate, and that a better feeling between employer and
employed was springing up everywhere. A general disposition
was evinced on both sides to improve the condition of those en-
gaged in mills and factories The reason continually brought
forward in support of a Ten Hours' Bill was, that it would
limit to some extent the competition going on between manual
and mechanical power. He could say, at far as Rochdale was
concerned, that the principal parties he had heard speak in its
favour were some hand-loom weavers in the woollen trade, who
said it was a proper object to interfere with the working of the
power-loom, in order to effect an improvement in their con-
dition, and that of hand-loom weavers generally. He, how-
ever, would say, in reply to such a reason, that nothing could
be more disastrous to all parties concerned than any such at-
tempt to interfere with machinery for the advantage of any
particular class.—( Hear, hear.) The lion. Member for Bir-
mingham had alluded to the women working in factories while
the men were walking about, having nothing to do. To that
he would say, there was no place in England where adult la-
bour was in more demand than in Lancashire. The employ-
ment of women gave additional employment to the men, and
none could deny that the labourers in that part of the country
had a regularly increasing market for their services, and were
in steadier demand than elsewhere.--( Hear, hear.) He re-
gretted opposing the present Hie, as he knew many of the
working classes were in favour of it, though not a majority ;
but he did so, considering:it was not for their interest that it
should be passed. He looked upon the measure proposed by
the Right lion. Baronet at the head of the Government as
a far greater boon to the factory operatives than
any Bill like that submitted by the Noble Lord.
That measure, with such alterations in it as he hoped would be
made before it passed, once in operation, he hoped that the
feeling in favour of short hours of labour would spread and
become extensive in the country ; and that then the working
classes, not by combination or violence, but by rational and
enlightened means, would before many years, bring into opera-
tion at least an eleven hours' system universally throughout the
cotton and woollen districts. Uunder present circumstances,
however, he must oppose the measure of the Noble Lord.—
( Hear, hear. )
Mr FIELDEN supported the Bill of the Noble Lord. His
experience of the factory system was at least as great as that of
the Hun. Member for Durham, and his conviction was, that if
) He could not
passed, it would
herein of great benefit niot only to the working
classes, but to ployers.—( Hear,
Right Hon. Baronet, ( Sir
James Graham,) which had been echoed back by the Hon.
Member for Durham, that if the system as far as it had been
tried, had worked well, why was it not generally adopted. The
Hon, Member for Durham knew that it was not in the hands
of the factory workers, but in that of their employers. The
former were not free agents in the matter, or else ho had no
doubt they would have done it. It was said the Bill would inter-
fere with the rights of property. But was not labour property ?
And was not that property entitled to protection as much as ac-
cumulated property ?—( Hear, hear.) But in doing so they
should take care that the labourer was not injured, that his io_
terest was not destroyed. Those willing to labour should have
both the means and the power to labour, but if they overworked
them their capacity and power was destroyed. Under the pre-
sent system children of 13 years of age were dragged out of their
beds at five o'clock in the morning, and obliged to go to the
factory, a distance perhaps oft two lei three miles, where they
were kept at labour ll ght o'clock at night
Was that system of slavery to continue? Those who object
was too late
to interfere with it. used the old hacknied argument employedoposiagainst the abolition of the slave-trade ; but it
Bill would he
for them to get the public with them. In spite of all
too
he was satisfied that ere long a Ten Flours'
passed. In proof of the growing feeling in favour of it, he
lately attended r. meeting in Oldham, at the request of his
constituents, at which re'elutions in favour of a Ten Hours'
Bill was passed ; and at that meeting two extensive cotton-
one of them
spinners were present. These two gentlemen. were previously
against the measure, but on the present occasion
took the chair, and the other spoke in favour of the object of the
meeting. If the House would pass a Ten Hours' Bill, the
question would be settled, and the agitation cease, but net till
then.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. WAKLEY asked the Honourable and Learned 'Mem-
ber for Bath if, after the speech of the Hon. Member
who
had who
had just sat done, his opinions remained unchanged
That
Hon. and Learned Gentlemen had obtained his opinions in his
study, from books and documents issued by that House ;
while the Hon, Member for Oldham, who hi spoken, was

it was not necessary, but he conversed with his brother for
half or three quarters of an hour. It might be asked why he
had not gone over the works, and he would tell the House the
reason. Because, if he had done so, it might be said he went

there to spy some fault, or to remark upon some little mis-
management, that he might bring it again against him. He
therefore thought the Hon. Member had travelled a little out of
the record when he said that he (Lord Ashley) took a one-
sided view of the subject, because, when asked to look over the
wosks, he had refused to do so. He was most anxious to make
this explanation, and he trusted the House would forgive him
for having done so.
Lord JOHN MANNERS moved for leave to bring in a
Bill to alter and amend the laws relating to bequests for pious
and charitable purposes. He would content himself with ask-
ing leave to bring in a Bill, unless some Hon. Member had
something to say upon the subject.
Leave was given to bring in the Bill.
Mr. HAMILTON, on the part of Lord Clements, moved
for a return of the Police Reward Fund (Ireland), constituted
by the Act 6 and 7 Wm. IV., for the year ending 31st Decem-
ber, 1848; also for a return of the Police Superannuation Fund
for the same period.
Mr. WODE HOUSE postponed till Monday the notice he
had upon the paper respecting highway rates.
Mr. F. T. BARING suggested to the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite (Sir J. Graham) that it would be better if all the items
of local taxation were included in one sheet, instead of being
scattered over many documents, as they were at present.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, any one reading the admirable report
issued on local taxation would be aware that it was a most diffi-

cult subject; not less than a sum of 12,000,0001. being arranged
under twenty-two general rates, which are enumerated under
the general head of local taxation.
Mr. F. FFRENCH wished to know if it were the intention
of Government to propose any amendment of the Poor-law of
Ireland.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that should it be necessary for
an inquiry to bei nstituted as regards the Poor-law of Ireland,
no obstacle would be offered by the Government. The Hon.
Member may perhaps have observed that there was a motion to
this effect by Lord Clancarty, upon the journals of the other
House.

Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL could not entertain a hope that
the poor-law in Ireland would bear a severe test. Even in the
most favourable time, the poor-law in Ireland had not been
able to alleviate the pauperism of that country. It was now
fated to undergo a severe test indeed, and though he (Mr. J.
O'Connell) entertained, as he had already stated, no hope that
it could do so successfully, yet he should be glad to find him-
self mistaken. It had been truly stated that that country was
within three or four weeks of a famine, and the House might
perhaps be aware that that famine was generally accompanied
by a typhus fever. He might mention that a very powerful
pamphlet had been written by Dr. Conaghan, of Dublin,
proving this fact. He entered his protest against this being
considered a boon to Ireland, or that it was anything which
Ireland had to be grateful for to that House. The people of
Ireland considered it a small—a very small—instalment of their
right. Ireland had been robbed of a hundred times this miser-
able amount, and this he would be ready at any time to prove.
Mr. CRA WFORD said the Irish poor-law admitted of no
external relief. Now, if a famine were to take place, it would
be impossible to extend relief to all the houses, and he would,
therefore, impress upon the Government the propriety of con-
sidering what means could be taken by which a further de-
scription of relief might be afforded.
'I he House then went into Committee on the Bill.

The whole of the clauses having been agreed to, with some
slight amendments, the House resumed, when the Chairman
reported progress, and the Bill was ordered to be printed as
amended.