The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-11 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair a tow minutes after
Twelve o'clock.
HORSHAM ELECTION.

The Committee appointed to try the merits of the
petition complaining of an undue return for the borough
of Horsham appeared at the table and were sworn by
the clerk, and were appointed to sit to-morrow at eleven
o'clock. The Committee consists of Dr. Bowring, Mr.
Monsell, Mr. Corry, Mr. Bramston, and Mr. Bunbury.
PETITIONS.

Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from a society of
Oddfellows, complaining of some of the provisions in
the Bill brought in to legalize friendly societies.
Mr. FORSTER presented a petition from the mayor
and corporation of Berwick, in favour of the Scotch
Marriage Bill. They deprecated the present loose mode
of contracting marriage in Scotland, and prayed that a
more civilized system might be introduced.
COURT OF JUSTICIARY BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
CRIMINAL LAW_ ADMINISTRATION AMEND•

MEAT BILL.
After a short discussion, this Bill was read a third time
and passed.
REGISTER OF SASINES, &c. (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
CHELTENHAM 'ELECTION.
The Committee appointod to inquire into the matter of
the petition against the return for Cheltenham appeared
at the table and were. sworn. The following are the
Members of the Committee :—Sir W. Clay, Mr. R.
Palmer, Mr. Thickness°, Captain Harris, and Mr. Ogle.
They were appointed to sit to-morrow at eleven &clock.

MARRIAGES &aAND) BILL.
The LORD-ADVOCATE withdrew this Bill, and on
the motion of the Learned Gentleman the order was
read and discharged.
REGISTERING BIRTHS, &c. (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The LEARNED GENTLEMAN also withdrew this Bill,
and upon his motion the order of the day for going
into Committee was read and discharged.
EXCHANGE of ECCLESIASTICAL PATRONAGE.
The Exchange of Ecclesiastical Patronage between
her Majesty and the Earl of Leicester Bill was read a
third time and passed.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Upon the order of the day being read for going into a
Committee of Supply,
Sir DE LACY EVANS called the attention of the
House to some observations which had been made by
the Hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Urquhart) to the
effect that those engaged in the war at Canton and in the
Kafir war were guilty of piracy, not having made a formal
declaration of war, and that they ware amenable to the
law enacted for the suppression of piracy. The Hon.
and Gallant Member showed that the Admiralty and
other high authorities had commended the conduct of
the officers under whose direction those wars were carried
on. If he were not mistaken, the Hon. Member (Mr.
Urquhart) had in early life been engaged in a similar
warfare under Lord Dundonsld.
Mr. URQUHART, in reply, said he had no personal
motive in bringing the matter before the House, but did
so simply from a feeling of deep shame at the guilt of
his country, and a desire at *ll events to clear himself
from participating in it. It involved an important ques-
tion of international law. The Hon. Member was pro-
ceeding to state his complaints in detail when he was
interrupted by
Captain HARRIS, who rose to call the Hon. Gentle-
man to order. He did not think it right, in going into a
Committee of Supply, that the Hon. Member should read
a chapter from Grotius and Mattel.
Mr. HUME considered that the subject which had
been brought before the House was one of great impor-
tance, and he thought it ought to be brought on separately,
and not mixed up with other matters. He recommended
the Hon. Member not to persevere on the present occa-
sion.

Mr. URQUHART adopted the suggestion, and con-
cluded by stating that it was his intention to divide the
Committee upon every vote, unless he had an assurance
from the Government that ;he navy should not be em-
ployed unlawfully.
After a few words from Capt. PECIIELL, the order
of the day was agreed to, and the House went into a
Committee of ,Supply on the navy estimates.
The first was a Tote of. 139,350 J. for the salaries of
officers, and the contingent expenses of the naval estab-
lishment at Portsmouth.

Captain PECHELL called the attention of the Com-
mittee to the advantages of Jeffry's marine glue over
common pitch in the caulking and repairing of ships, and
suggested the expediency of the Admiralty using it in
the dockyards.
Lord JOHN HAY assured the Honourable and
Gallant Member that every disposition had been shown
by the Admiralty to give the material a fair trial. Ex-
periments had been made, and it was found that the
marine glue would cost one-seventh more than common
pitch, and as it dried very quickly, and was very nau-
seous in its smell, it was not considered an advisable
substance to use in ship-building.
Mr. HUME thought it the glue remained in the same
state in all weathers, as had been stated, whether in a
northern or tropical climate, it would be found a great
desideratum for caulking the upper decks of vessels.
After some further discussion, in which Mr. Hume
gave the Government, credit for a sincere intention to
keep down the expense of their peaceirstablishments, and
some observations from Mr. Cobden and Mr. Ward,
in which the latter pledged the Government to a
complete investigation and revision of the expenditure
for the navy during the next six months, the vote was
agreed to, as was also a vote for the sum of 25,8391. to
defray the salaries of officers and the contingent expenses
of her Majesty's naval forces abroad.
The following votes were also agreed to:-
411,3461. to defray the charges for the naval estab-
lishments at home.
39,2891. to defray the charges for artificers in the
naval establishments abroad.
25,0751. to defray the charges of the Medical Staff
and stores.
66,5731. to defraLthe charges of divers miscellaneous
services.
181,3221. to defray the charge for freight of ships
and victualling of ships and stores.
leave 43,6021. to defray the charges relating to convicts.
the Chairman reported
proTghreessilu
, an s
d e
The House at a Quarter past Three o'clock adjourned
to Five o'clock.
bthtaeinned resumed,
to sit again at five o'clock.
House

Mr. BERNAL resumed the Chair at Five o'clock, and
the House proceeded with the Committee of Supply;
and the debate was proCteded with on the Navy Esti-
mates.
On the question that the sum of 557,213/. be granted
to her Majesty, to defray the expenses of naval stores.
Mr. HUME said that nothing had occurred to war-
rant so great an outlay for stores as had taken place for
the last few years.
After a few observations from Mr. WARD and Ek C.
DOUGLAS,
ENGINE-DRIVERS ON RAILWAYS.
Mr. H. BERKELEY 'Called the attention of the
Government to the differences which had taken place
between engine,drivets on the North-Western Railway
and the Directors of (he COmpany.
Mr. LABOUCHERE stated that information had
been given to the Board of Trade that a dispute had
arisen with the directors on the subject of wages.
That information was conveyed to the Railway Com-
missioners, and having communicated with the company
they received an assurance that every precaution would be
taken which was calculated to secure the public safety. The
Railway Commissionershad, however, no power to inter-
fere in the matter further than communicating with the
company on the subject. He understood that the engine-
drivers were at present in communication with the com-
pany, and he indulged the hope their differences were
mainly made up, and that the business of the
railway would go on as usual. All he could now say
was, that he had received the strongest assurance on the
part of the company that every measure would be taken
which was adequate to secure the public safety.
Lord G. BENTINCK protested against this inter-
ruption to the proceedings of the Committee of Supply.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, if the Noble Lord persisted
in his opposition, he would move that the chairman re-
port progress.
Lord G. BENTINCK said he merely wished to enter
his protest against such a proceeding being taken as a
precedent.
After a few words from Mr. HUME, who stated that
all blame was owing to him, because it was upon bis
motion that the House went into a Committee of Supply
at five o'clock.
Mr. HUME deprecated the present mode of dealing
with contracts, and complained that they were not opened
in the presence of all the competitors. It had been said
that the Blenheim was an example which the Admiralty
ought to follow. Why that ship cost 70,00. or 80,0001.,
then 43,0001. were expended in altering her0
,1 and 25,000/.
in constructing the screw-propeller for the resception
of which the expensive alterations bad been made.
Why, they might have built a new ship for the cost of
the alterations. He protested against this extravagant
expenditure, and trusted that it would not be repeated.
Mr. WARD defended the system of contracts. In
some cases parties could not be found to compete, and
fines were now inflicted for the non-completion of those
which were accepted.
In reply to Mr. SOTHEREN,
Mr. WARD stated that there were forty-five different
screw-propellers, and:disputes were now pending in the

' Dividend Amount
Name of Company. per I of Paid. Price
Annum. Share.
-------- -
A s. d. A a. d.
Australasia •• •• •• .• •• - , 40 0 0 40 0 0 -
Britshliorth American 51. per cent. 50 0 0 50 0 0 -
Ceylon -••..•• •• •• • • 71. per cent. 25 0 0 25 0 0 -
:.:ommercial of London 61. per cent. 100 0 0 20 0 0 -
:lolonial. 51. per cent. 100 0 0 25 0 0 -
Gloucestershire ••• • • • 151 per cent. - - -
lonian .. •• • ... .. -•• 61. per cent. 25 0 0 25 0 0 -
Londn and Westminstr 61. per cent. 100 0 0 20 0 0 21%
- - 13 0 0 -
London Joinf-Stock .• . 61. per cent. 50 0 0 10 0 0 14%
Provincialof Ireland 81. per cent 100 0 0 25 0 0 -
Ditto, ........Si. 81. per cent. 10 0 0 10 0 0 --
National of Ireland •• 51. per cent. 50 0 0 22 1.0 0 18
Nat. Provncial of Eng. 61. per cent. 100 0 0 35 0 0 -
Ditto, New... •• - - 51. per cent. 20 0 0 10 0 0 -
South Australia •.• • .. 51. per cent. - 22 10 0 -
Union of Australia- - 61. per cent. 25 0 0 25 0 0 -
- - 2 10 0 -
Union of L0nd0n..... 61. per cent. 50 0 0 10 0 0 10%
Union of Madrid ..... - 40 0 0 40 0 0 -
BRIDGES
Dividend Amount
Name of Company. per of Paid. Price.
Annum. Share.
- ----- --
A. a. d. A. e. d.
Charing-cross...• ..•• - - 25 0 0 19%
Southwrk, Nw Sub.lv. - 632 12 8 - 3
Ditto Nw of 7% p. c. 355. per cent. 50 0 0 - 15
Waterloo ............ - 100 0 0 - 4
Ditto Old Ann. of 81. U. 53. 4d. - 60 0 0 27
Ditto Nw ditto of 71 11. 2s. 2d. - 40 0 0 25
Vauxhall .... ... Ay. 11. 17s. 70 10 3 - 27
INSURANCE COIRP.A.BIZEs.
Name of Company. I Divpiedrend Amount
of
Annum. Share. Paid. Price
-
A a. d. 4 a. d.
Albion .. •• •• •• ••• • • • 31. 101. 500 0 0 50 0 0 75
Alliance Brit. and For. 6 per cent. 100 0 0 11 0 0 1714
Ditto Marine. ••• • •• 61. per cent, 100 0 0 5 0 0 4%
Atlas • 133.6d.prsh. 50 0 0 5 6 8 13
British Commercial •• 7s. per share 50 0 0 5 0 0 6
Cleriel,Med.& Gen. Life spr et. & be. 100 0 0 10 0 0 19
County .......• -•• •• 31. 100 0 0 10 0 0 -
Crown
14s. 50 0 0 5 0 0 11
Eagle • 6s. 50 0 0 5 0 0 6
Eng.if Scot. Law •• •• st. per cent. 50 0 0 2 12 6 -
European Life ••• • • • 5% per cent. 20 0 0 All paid. -
Family Endownint Soc. 41. & be. 100 0 0 4 0 0 -
Freemasons' .• •••• . .• 61. per cent. 20 0 0 3 0 0 -
i.oLe - -
Guardian ...... -- • • 51. per cent. 100 0 0 36 10 0 -
I nperial Fire .. ••- •• 12 per cent. 500 0 0 50 0 0 205
Imperial Life •• ••• • •• 12s. 100 0 0 10 0 0 -
Indemnity Marine •• •• 11. sh. SG Ns. 500 0 0 513 1 25
Law Fire •••••• • • • • •• - 100 0 0 210 0 -
LAW Life.... •• • • .... 11. 16s. 100 0 0 10 0 0 -
Legal and General Life - 50 0 0 2 0 0 41 Os.
London Fire •••• • • • • 100. 25 0 0 12 10 0 -
Landon Ship •.•••• •• 10s. 25 0 0 12 10 0 13
Sfarine.. •••••• - • • • • - 100 0 0 16 0 0 -
Sled. Invlid&Gen.Life 4%1. per ct. 50 0 0 2 0 0 2%
National Lean Fund.. 51. per cent. 20 0 0 210 0 -
National Life .• •• • • ... 8/. per cent. 100 0 0 5 0 0
Palladium Lite 5l. per cent. 50 0 0 2 0 0 2
Pelican • . • • • • • . • • .. • • - - - -
Pncenix - - -
Pi °teeter Life- - ... 54. per cent. 20 0 0 1 0 0 -
Provident Life -- - 11. ss. 100 0 0 10 0 0 26
Rock Life............ 4s. 5 0 0 010 0 4%
Royal Exchange Si. per cent. Stock. - 165
Sun Fire..... ...... - - 197
Ditto Life 11. 61. - -
Universal Life lO% pr cnt. 100 0 0 9 0 0 -24
Victoria Life - - 4 0 0 4
BOOZE.
Dividend Amount
Name of Company. per of Paid. Price,
Annum. Share.
£ s. d. A 11. d.
Commercial .... - -
E Ist and West India... 6/. pr cent. Stock. - 119
East Country - 21
L0nd0n.......5i. pr cent. Stock. - 103
Ditto Bonds- ••• • .. 41. per cent. - - -
S.. Katharine •• •••• •• 4 per cent. Stock. - -
Ditto Bonds• ••• - • • 1%1. pr cent. - - -
Suuthampton ••-. • •• 2/. per cent. 50 0 0 50 0 0 -
IITA.TER-17701L85.
Dividend 1 Amount
Name of Company. per I of raid. Price.
Annum. I Share.
A 5. d. 4 s. d.
Birmingham. -••• • •• ' 18s. 25 0 0 25 0 0 -
East London..• •••• • • • . 81. i 100 0 0 - 173
Grand Junction •• -- ' 21. 10s. t 41 13 4 - 80
Kent ........ • ... -•• ' 3/. I 100 0 0 - 75
New Itivr Lndn Brdge , 2/. 10s. I - - 55
Vauxhall .. ..... ..... 51. per cnt. 1100 0 0 - -
West Middlesex • . . 61.0*. pr cut. - - 117

GAS-LIGHT AND CORE COMPANIES.
Dividend Amount
Name of Company. per of Paid. Price.
Annum. Share.
X. s. d. Z. a. d.
British ••••••.. • • • • •• 1/. 40 0 0 18 0 0 16
Ditto Provincial— IL Bs. 20 0 0 19 0 0 23
Bristol .. ••••••- • • • •• 101. per cent. 20 0 0
Brighton ••••..• • • • .. 51. per cent. 20 0 0 16
City of London .. •• •• 101. 100 0 0 100 0 0 250
ContinentalConsolidat. 925. pr share 50 0 0 39 i 0
Ditto, New •• •• 851. pr share 50 0 0 37 10 0
Equitable .••••• .. • • • • 455. pr share 50 0 0 50 0 0 36
Imperial • • ••• • • • 6/. per cent. 50 0 0 50 0 0 69
Independent ....... • • 61. per cent. ,40 0 0 40 0 0 64
London•• •• •••• •• 50 0 0 40 0 0 j
1
50 0 0 50 0 0
Phcenix 51. per cent. ,50 0 0 46 0 0 31
Ratclitf • ........ 5/. and bus. 100 0 0 90 0 0 75
United General .. •• • • 4%1. pr cent. 50 0 0 50 0 0 15
Westminster Chartered 31, 50 0 0 55%,
Ditto, New •• •• -• 12s. 50 0 0 10 0 0 11
MISCELLANEOUS.
Dividend Amount
Name of Company. per of Paid. Price
Annum. Share.
X. s. d. Z. a. d.
Australian Agriculturl 100 0 0 30 0 0
Anglo-Mexican Mint« li. 4s. 10 0 0 10 0 0 .16
Ditto, Half Shares.. 210 0 --
Canada ... • • .... •• .. GI. per cent. 100 0 9 32 10 0 27%
Uppr Canada Bonds 57. per cent.
City Bonds.. 3%1. pr cent. 82
Comp. Cppr Mars Eng. 51. per cent. 100 0 0 70 0 0
Gen. Revers. & Invest. sp. c.& bs, 2/ 100 0 0 1100 0 0
Equitable Reversienry 51. pr cent. 100 0 0 1100 0 0 91%
Gem. Steam Navigation it. Si. 15 0 0 14 • 0 18
London Institution ... 10
Peninslr& Orient.Stm. 8/. per cent. 50 0 0 50 0 0 52
Reversionary Int. Soc. 4%1. pr cent. 100 0 0 100 0 0
Royal Mail Steam—. 311. pr cent. 100 0 0 60 0 0
South Australian ..... 1/. per share. 25 0 0 25 0 0 16
Van Dieman's Land., 100 0 0 23 0 0
Universal Salvage •• • . 25 0 0 5 0 0

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, August 10.
NAVIGATION-LAWS.

The House then went into Committee on the nariga.
tion-laws.

Mr. LABOUCHERE, in placing the resolution in the
hands of the Chairman, said it was hardly necessary for
him to remind the Committee of the circumstances under
which Government bad consented to give up all expecta-
tion of repealing the navigation •laws this session;
but he trusted that the House would allow the measure
to be introduced so early next session as to admit of its
receiving the full consideration which its importance
demanded. He proposed simply to ask the Committee
to pass the resolution, to enable him to lay the views
of the Government on this subject before the
House in the shape of a Bill, which would
be far more satisfactory than any statement on the part
of the Ministers ; and he trusted, as an understanding
had been come to to reserve the discussion till next ses-
sion, the resolution would be passed without any length-
ened debate. The resolution stated that it was expedient
to remove the restrictions which were inflicted on
the carrying of goods by sea to and from the British
possessions, subject, nevertheless, to such control as
her Majesty's Privy Council should think fit.
Mr. HERRIES said, however he might be opposed to
the proposal of the Right Honourable Gentleman, be
thought, under these circumstances, this was the best
course the Right Honourable Gentleman could adopt,
and upon the understanding that the question was
to be fully gone into next session, he should
refrain from opposing the resolution now. The
more ho considered the proposition made by her
Majesty's Government, the more strongly he was con-
vinced that such a measure could not be carried into
effect without endangering in the highest degree
the naval and mercantile interests of this country.
It would give the foreign shipowner and the foreign sailor
the same advantages which were enjoyed by the British
shipowner and sailor, with one single exception, with re-
ference to the coasting trade. They were put on the same
footing of equality, but then there were obligations im-
posed upon the British navy which gave a positive
and distinct preference to the foreigner. If the Bill
were passed, the capital which was now invested
in British shipping would be transferred to foreign ship•
ping, because it was exempt from obligations which the
former had imposed upon it.
Mr. GLADSTONE hoped that his Right Honourable
Friend's example would be followed on the present occa-
sion, as he himself should practise the self-denial of ab-
staining from entering upon any discussion of the mea-
sure. lie could not blame the Government for not per-
severing ut so late a period with the Bill, but he did hope
and expect that at the earliest period of the next sessio❑
the measure would be brought in, as, if it was deferred,
the scene of that evening would be repeated in 1849.
He must say he wished the Bill had been of a more
general nature, and that so urge a power had not been
reserved to the Queen in Council as was provided in the
Bill about to be laid o❑ the table. He should permit the
resolution to pass without opposition on the present oc-
casion, with the distinct understanding that he was left
entirely unshackled as to the course he should take in
respect to it during the next session.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the original intention of
Government was to bring in the Bill before Christmas,
but other more pressing business had intervened. The
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) had
stated his intention not to be bound by bis assent to
the resolution before the Committee, and at the same
time expressed a wish that it had been conceived in more
general terms, and that less power had been reserved
to the queen in Council to act under the proposed Bill.

No doubt it would be open to the House to discuss. on a
future occr.sion, the form of he altt.rati,:n of the Daviga,
tion-laws, and he (Lord J Russell) wibhcd to all, that
although the Government bad whiled to introduce a
measure in the form which had been propc;,ed, still there
was nothing to prevent the Government considering,
during the recess, the form in which it would hereafter
be proposed. The House had already, 14y a large ma-
jority, expressed a decided opinion in favour of the prin-
ciple of the Government proposition, and he concurred
in the opinion which had been expressed that the mea-
sure must.be introduced at the very earliest period of next
session.

Mr. G. R. ROBINSON denied that the House had yet
affirmed the principle of the Government measure. All
the House had yet done had been to negative the resolu-
tion proposed by way of amendment by the Right Hon.
Gentleman near him (Mr. Berries). By a postpone-
ment of the measure till next session the' Noble Lord had
given the shipping interests and those connected with
the shipping ports an opportunity of fully considering
the whole question before the house was again called
upon to discuss it, and if they did not make the
House acquainted with their wishes on this great and
vital matter, the fault would rest upon themselves. A
strong feeling had already been expressed on the ques-
tion, for he found, on reference to the report of the Com-
mittee on petitions, only twelve petitions with 2,425 sig-
natures had been presented during the whole session in
favour of the Government plan, while there had been
presented 109 petitions, bearing 49,231 signatures,
against it. This fact answered the assertion which had
been made by the Hon. Member for Manchester (Mr.
Bright), that all the shipping ports were in favour of
an abrogation of the navigation-laws, and he (Mr.
Robinson) asserted that 12-20ths of those connected
with the shipping interest were hostile to the change in
the law as propsed by her Majesty's Government. If
the Government yielded in that matter to the section of
the House which supported free- trade measures, his
(Mr. Robinson's) coviction was that the consequerce
would be to throw open the whole trade with America
and the West Indies to the United States.
Mr. MACGREGOR considered the course taken by
the Government in postponing the Bill until the next
session was a wise and proper proceeding. He also
thought that the form of the resolution might be bene-
ficially altered, and he wished that in the interim be-
tween the close of the present and the commencement of
the next session the Government would set on foot nego-
tiations with the United States in order to effect freedom
of intercourse between the ports of the United States
and those of this country, just as though the former still
remained a portion of the British dominions. He was
also of opinion that a distinct understanding should be
come to as early as possible with the United States.
Mr. HUDSON wished to state a fact for the conside-
ration of the Government. When their proposition with
respect to the navigation-laws was announced an im-
mense number of hands employed in shipbuilding at
Sunderland had been turned out of employment, but as
soon as it was known the measure was abandoned, at
least for the present session, all the men had been gra-
dually restored to their employment. He, therefore,
warned the Government not to renew a measure which
was calculated to bring large bodies of the labouring
classes to misery and destitution. The interests of those
classes were deserving of as much consideration as those
of the shipowner and shipbuilder. Whenever the new
measure was brought forward it ould receive his most
strenuous opposition.
Mr. CLAY expressed a hope that when the Right
Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Board of Trade next
session introduced a new measure, with reference to the
navigation-laws, he would show more consideration in it
than had been displayed in its predecessors, for the three
interests more immediately concerned—the shipowner,
the shipbuilder, and the sailor. The measure ought also
to be accompanied by a remission of the timber duties;
and if this was done, he believed the measure would not
be resisted.
Mr. BRIGHT said, in answer to what had been stated
by the Hon. Member for Poole (Mr. Robinson), that he
(Mr. Bright) had never said that those interested in
ships and in ports were in favour of the alteration of
those laws. What he had said was, that the population
in the ports were in favour of the Governmeet plan, and
this had been shown at a public meeting held in Sunder-
land three or four years ago, when they declared in fa-
vour of an alteration in the navigation-laws. He was
surprised the Honourable Member for Sunderland (Mr.
Hudson), who had done so much to increase
freedom of communication by railroads, should
be opposed to the same frseilorn by ships and merchant
vessels; and he called on the Hon. Member to exercise
on this question that good common sense which he had
directed to railroads, and not bind himself up with the
political views of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn
(Lord G. Bentinck). He trusted the Government would
next session renew the measure with firmness and deter
urination; if so, its success in this and the other House
of Parliament was certain.
Mr. MITCHELL observed that on a former occasion
the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley) had
questioned the accuracy of certain returns made to the
Government by Sir E. Baines, the Consul at St.
Petersburgh. He (Mr. Mitchell) had received a
letter from Sir E. Baines, in which he desired him to
acquaint the House that the returns were furnished
by the Resident at the British factory at St. Peters-
burgh, and that he (Sir E. Baines) had not had, at the
time they were sent off, an opportunity of testing their
accuracy.
Captain HARRIS was understood to express a hope
that in the new measure the Government would take
care to secure the naval service with a sufficient
supply of hands, if necessary, from the commercial ma-
rine.

Mr. RICARDO said he did not wish to open a fresh
discussion; but ho and those on his side of the House
were as zealous for the maintenance of the supremacy of
the British navy as the Hon. and Gallant Member
(Captain Harris), who on former occasions had claimed
all the patriotism for himself and those with whom he
acted.
Mr. NEWDEGATE asked whether the resolutions
now in the hands of the chairman were a true exposi-
tion of the Bill about to be laid on the table, and in ac-
cordance with the speech with which the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Labouchere) bad introduced
the resolutions to the consideration of the House ?
After a few words from Capt. HARRIS and Mr. Rr•
calms, in mutual explanation,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, in answer to the question
put by the Hon. Member (Mr. Newdegate), he had to
reply that he (Mr. Labouchere) should be guilty of prac-
tising a trick upon the House if the Bill was not in ac•
cordance with the resolution and with the speech with
which he had brought forward the. question. At the
same time he did not mean to preclude himself from
taking advantage during the recess of such information
as he might acquire, and of amending upon it the form
of the new measure.
Mr. HENLEY inquired from the Hon. Member for
Bridport (Mr. Mitchell) whether Sir E. Baines in his
communication stated the reports he had furnished were
correct or incorrect ?
Mr. MITCHELL replied that the letter was silent on
that head ; but, from the anxiety the writer expressed
to be set right with the House, he (Mr. Mitchell) in-
ferred that Sir E. Baines thought them incorrect.
Mr. MACGREGOR said he had examined the re-
ports, and had found them correct, with the exception of
those from Tamboff.
The resolution was then agreed to, and a Bill founded
thereon ordered to be brought in by Mr. Bernal, Mr.
Labouchere, and Lord J. Russell.
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS BILL.
The Committee on this Bill was then resumed, Mr.
BERNAL in the chair.
It was agreed that Carlisle be inserted in the schedule.
On the motion that Lincoln be added,
Colonel SIBTHORP said he would not ask a favour
of the House in behalf of the city he represented, much
less on behalf of himself, as its representative. He was
convinced of the purity of the constituency. He had
represented them 20 years; his brother, father, uncle,
great-uncle, and great-grandfather had represented
them, the latter in 1714; and this was the first time any
member of his family had been charged with an act de-
rogatory of his character. It was the first time the
borough had been put on its trial for malpractices un-
worthy a representative body. He had no hesitation in
denying the imputation in every sense in which it could
possibly be understood. He knew how easy it was to
make charges of this kind; but it was difficult to sub-
stantiate them. It was also easy for a Government,
dressed :perhaps with a little brief authority, to im-
pugn Individuals not less upright than themselves.
His father, and other members of his family, had
exercised the duties of hospitality amongst his neigh-
bours—he had followed their excellent example— and it
this was to be denounced as bribery, he contended
that to send down Commissioners to inquire into such
proceedings was nothing less than inquisitorial tyranny;
and he would tell the Noble Lord (J. Russell) that in
spit. of such an inquisition, he would persist in the per-
formance of such acts as Christian charity and hospita-
lity required. The Noble Lord having stated that re-
freshments might be justifiably given on the occasion of
a county election, on what ground could he charge him
(Colonel Sibtborp) with acts of bribery because he had
exercised hospitality towards the poor ? Let the Noble
Lord beware, for sometimes a man was caught in his
own trap and lost his tail.—(Laughter.) Lincoln had
been put into the schedule ; London had not. Why was
this ? It was true the House had evidence in one case
and not in the other. Let the result of the Lincoln
Committee be what it might, he should retain the opi-
nion that this proceeding was one unworthy the Govern-
ment, and unworthy a Prime Minister, who seemed to
rejoice in the tyranny he was exercising. Why had the
Noble Lord shrunk from pressing the former Bill he had
introduced, and thus given opportunity for a fair discus-
sion ? Why bring in a Bill in this disgraceful, under-
hand manner, on which no fair discussion could take
place, but which, like many other measures introduced
at this period of the session, must be smuggled through
the House? He knew it was vain to contend against the
premeditated intention of the Noble Lord; but if a bo-
rough was to undergo a scrutiny, and to suffer punish-
ment in the person of its representative by his being un-
seated, a fresh election having taken place, no further
proceedings ought to be instituted. As well might they
send a Commsisoner to inquire into the conduct of every
atember of the family of an individual who had been
convicted of a crime in a court of justice. The Noble
Lord, not satisfied with the late Member for Lincoln
being unseated, now sought to hold up the borough to
the world as unworthy of the franchise. If the Noble
Lord could reconcile his conscience to such conduct, he
(Colonel Sibthorp) rejoiced to say that he could not.
Let them send down their Commissioner, give
him what instructions they liked, and charge,
frighten, and insult the poor man, if they
chose, his opinion of the integrity and inde-
pendence of the constituency of Lincoln impressed
him with the firm conviction that they would act
as men and as Englishmen. Let them encourage every
bad character, and even reward with place those who
were prominent in this inquisitorial proceeding. It
was impossible but that the character and conduct of

honourable men shoulo be misrepresented and blackened
in such an inquiry. The result to the Noble Lord
would be, that he would be believed guilty of a low,
moan, dirty trick to undermine ethers, and thereby to
build up his own reputation for purity by means which
would tend to his disgrace. Let these Commissioners
attempt to ferret out acts which he (Col. Sibthorp) and
his friends would never be ashamed to divulge; it was
in the power of the Government to do this if they chose.
But they ought to have visited in this manner boroughs
which better deserved such an inquiry. He would not
condescend to ask the Noble Lord or the House to
exempt Lincoln from the schedule, but would
leave it to its fate. undaunted in the course he
meant to pursue. He would take no underhand
course, neither would any one of the constituency.
He lamented that the benches around him, from whose
occupants he might have looked for justice, were
deserted; the Noble Lord might, therefore, take his own
course. Let him inflict any punishment he chose on the
city of Lincoln ; he (Colonel Sibthorp) should await the
sentence with the consciousness of having done his duty,
and with the belief that the Noble Lord would, ere long,
regret the course he was now taking.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said there was no
charge whatever in the Bill against the Hon. and Gal-
lant Member who had just sat down, neither was there
any such charge in the report of the Committee. He
said his ancestors had sat for the borough ; and he (the
Solicitor. General) hoped his descendants would do the
same, and would defend the borough as ably as he did.—
(Hear, hear.) But the principle on which this Bill pro-
ceeded was, that wherever a Committee reported the
exisence of corrupt practices, there an inquiry should
take place to ascertain whether such practices did really
exist. As the Hon. and Gallant Member did not intend
to divide on this question, he thought it unnecessary to
go further into the matter.

Colonel SIBTHORP repeated that his anxiety was
not for himself, but for the borough.

Mr. W. MILES said he had fully expected that the
Chairman of the Lincoln Committee would have moved
its omission from the schedule. The evidence disclosed
only three cases of bribery, out of forty-six charged ;
one a very small one, to the amount of about 103., was
proved ; and could it be supposed necessary that there
should be another Committee and another inquiry to find
out just the same thing ? The bribery as it was called,
was carried on by means of " free and easy clubs,"
which sat before and after the issue of the writ ; this
was the whole of the case, and nothing more would be
disclosed by the moat searching inquiry. The real
question was whether the treating had been exercised
with the intent of corrupting the voters. He thought
that much of it would be found resolvable into the hos-
pitality the Hon. and Gallant Member had referred to.
The report of the Committee plainly stated the existence
of these clubs at perhaps half the public-houses in
Lincoln ; the names of the publicans were given ;
the feet that bread, beer, pipes, &c., were distributed
outside the houses to " navvies and others was proved.
beyond doubt ; also that sums were paid to nee-resi-
dent voters beyond what was necessary for their loss of
time; all these things were patent, and what more could be
required ? The Committee reported, that, owing to the
vagueness of the 20th clause of sth and 6th Victoria, cap.
102, various conclusions might be arrived at by Com-
mittees; and they recommended an alteration of the
law in this respect. The Hon. Gentleman here read the
clause, and asked if it included refreshments and travel-
ing expenses ?
The SOLICITOR. GENERAL answered in the affir-
mative.

Mr. MILES said it had not been so construed by
Committes generally, with whom it rested to decide
whether a payment was made to corrupt a voter.
More might be done by simplifying the law, and defin-
ing what was corruption, than by sending a host of Com-
missioners to scour the country, and find out what was
patent to all.—(Hear.)
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the Hon. Member
had opened a discussion which was ♦ery fully gone into
on a former occasion, and related rather to the principle
of the Bill than to the boroughs which should be placed
in the schedule. The House had thought it desirable to
hare further information, in addition to the evidence
taken before the Election Committees ; and hence the
necessity for the inquiry proposed by this Bill. As to
the construction of the 5 and 6 Viet., it was evident
that every payment of whatever kind made to an elec-
tor was a corrupt payment; but the question arose in
every case whether the particular payment had been
made with the intention of corrupting the voter. He
hoped that the House, having affirmed the principle of
the Bill, would not now offer any opposition to Lincoln,
the cas• against which was a -very strong one, being
placed in the schedule.

Mr. ANSTEY referred to the report of the Lincoln
Committee, and said that this Bill, so far from carrying
out their recommendation as to the simplification of the
law, set aside their report altogether by appointing an-
other Committee to go into the same inquiry again.
The city of London was situate precisely the same as
..
the borough of Horsham; let the Noble Lord (J.
Russell) take this opportunity of declaring that he ••;::
was ready to volunteer an inquiry into transactions
of which the world had heard much, and thereby to •
clear his own character and that of his constituency.
--(Hear, hear.) He was not precluded from doing ,
this by the preamble of the present Bill. Common
fame said that the last election for the city of Lon.,
don was characterised by enormous bribery, treating,
and personation. It was said that one thousand long.
shore men were bribed. That was reported on credible-
authority.—(Name, name.) Those statements had been
made by a Member of that House, and the Noble Lord
had not denied them. It was also said that 32,000/.
had been spent at the election, and dead men were per-
sonated. He did not say that the Noble Lord was or .
was not guilty of corrupt practices, but common rumour
reported that enormous bribery and corruption prevailed
at the last election for the city of London. A document
was to be handed to him in which those statements 'relit
made, but it miscarried.—(Laughter.) Now, there was
no report in the case of the city of London. But -
neither was there any report in the case of Horsham.
The bribery and corruption at Horsham rested on more
rumour, and as Horsham was to be included in the
schedule, he wished to know whether the Noble Lord,
on the same ground, was prepared to include the city of
London?
Lord J. RUSSELL begged of the House to recollect,.
the circumstances under which he undertook the BilL
It had been urged by several Members of the House, but -
more especially by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Tamworth, that some Member of the Government
should take charge of the Bill. He had declined to do so
for a considerable time; and it was not until the Bill was
made a cause of perpetual delay that be consented to un•
dertake it. Whereupon the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man thought as he had undertaken the Bill he was a fair
subject for attack, and made that the ground of a per-
sonal charge—(" No, no," from Mr. Anstey)—and of a
charge against the constituency which he represented.
—(Hear, hear.) Why, whatever body he represented,
the Hon. and Learned Member would be equally able to
say that there was a rumour of corrupt practices, and
would call on him to include that constituency in the
schedule.—(Hear, hear.) He denied that because he
undertook the Bill at the request of the House he was
bound to put in the place he represented, whatever
it might be, without any cause, in the schedule,
to gratify the curiosity or malignity of any individual
who might call on him to do so.—(Hear, bear.) His.
connexion with the city of London began thus :—He re-
presented a borough which had elected him more than
once free of expense, and left him perfectly independent
in his political course in that House. Whilst he repre-
sented the borough of Stroud some thousands of the
electors of the city of London requested him to stand for
the city of London, the great public question of protec-
tion or free trade being then at issue. He stated to
them ho had no wish to leave the constituency he then
represented, and that he believed it would cause a feel-
ing of mortification, and a feeling that they had been
unfairly and ungratefully dealt with if he left them for
any other body. At the same time he said that be
would accept the invitation, as the decision of the city
of London would be of great importance on the question
of free trade or protection, but that the election must be
carried on without recourse to any of those means to
which the term of corrupt practices was applied.—(Hear,
hear.) They stated that they would not practice any
illegal means to carry the election, which they intended
should be one entirely upon principle. That election
took place, and be was returned by a majority of nine.
—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp.) Last year
they asked him whether ho would become a candidate
along with three other gentlemen. He replied that he
would stand again, but that he must not be in connexion
with any others. The election took place; there was a
very hard contest; but he was elected for the second
time by a very large majority.—(Hear, hear.) No per-
son that he knew of complained of the mode in which
that election was conducted. He had not paid out of
his pocket more than was necessary for the legal ex-
penses of the election. If any corrupt practices had
been resorted to, why were not the means taken to
bring them to light? No management that he was
aware of had been used to prevent an election petition
from being presented to that House.—(Hear, hear.)
Having so conducted ]himself he did not think he was
bound to include London in the schedule because the •
Hon. Gentleman said that some rumours prevailed.—
(Hear, hear.) Whether those rumours prevailed or not
he did not know—he heard them only from the Hon.
Gentleman—(Laughter and cheers)—and fi om nobody
else.—(Renewed laughter.) Where the Hon. Gentle-
man picked up those rumours he did not know.
He proposed the Bill on public grounds, and without
reference to any individual.—(" Hear, hear," from Col. •
Sibthorp.) He could assure the Hon. and Gallant Gen-
tleman that he had no personal feeling against hire—
(Laughter)—and had no objection that he and his pos-
terity should represent Lincoln as long as his ancestors
had done. But having brought forward the Bill on
pliblic-giounds, he did not think that he ought to put the
city of London in the schedule because the Hon. Gen-
tleman was of opinion that the place represented by the
Prime Minister ought to be included.—(flear, hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORP said he never directly or in-
directly bribed any man, and he considered he had
therefore as good a right to be excluded from the Bill as
the Noble Lord.
Mr. W. BROWN regretted that the Noble Lord
thought it worth his while to answer the allegations of
the Hon. Member for Youghal. With regard to the
constituency represented by the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, he always heard that they were anxious to get *
fat goose.—(Laughter.)
Mr. J. A. SMITH rose for the purpose of confirming
the perfectly accurate and exact statement of the Noble
Lord respecting the circumstances attending the election
for the city of London, on which occasion be was chair-
man of the Noble Lord's Committee. Every effort had
been made on his part and on the part of the other
members of the Committee to insure the election being
conducted in such a manner as would prevent even those
rumours to which the Hon. and Learned Member alluded.
lie therefore repudiated in the most distinct manner the
extraordinary and absurd charges made by the Hem

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Itony.—(ffear, hear.)
HUDSON said that if corrupt practices had taken
litce at the London election, the Noble Lord, and pro-
kbly the chairman of his Committee, would be the last
Prsons ;to know any'hing about them.—(Rez.r, hear.)
,was generally stated that a large sum of money had
hen expended, which could not be for any legitimate or
?toper purpose. He thought the Government would act
Wisely by giving up the Bill altogether, which would only
teats unpleasant and angry feelings in the boroughs to
which it was to apply.
Mr. HOBHOUSE refused to be bound by the prin-
ciple on which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the
Solicitor-General) would include Lincoln in the Bill.
Ie had been returned at the smallest possible cost for
the city of Lincoln, and he believed that there never was
In election where greater purity and propriety prevailed.
That consideration alone should weigh with the House
is excluding Lincoln from the schedule, even it Lincoln
had before that been guilty. It was in his opinion highly
unjust to adopt a retrospective principle in the Bill.
There was no objection to the issuing of the writ in the
"so of Lincoln as in the case of Horsham, and that he
eonsidered was a distinction in favour of the former
face. If his Hon. and Gallant Colleague divided the
.House he should divide with him.
Mr. BROTHERTON said that the Hon. Gentleman
who had just spoken had proved too much; for if Lin-
coln was so pure as he had represented, there could be
no fear from any inquiry. If he understood the case of
Lincoln, Mr. Seely, the late Member, was unseated for
Practices which the Hon. and Gallant Member had prat
tiled, and said he would continue to practise. On the
score of justice, therefore, he thought that an inquiry
should take place.
After a few words from Colonel SIBTHORP, the
Committee divided, when there appeared—
For retaining Lincoln in the schedule 69
Against it
Majority
Lincoln was accordingly inserted, as were Leicester,
Lime Regis, and Bewdley.
On the motion that Harwich be inserted,
Mr. BAGSHAWE said that he might use every ar-
gument which had been used in the case of Lincoln, in
favour of the borough of Harwich, but he thought he
Would best consult the credit of this borough by courting
Mouiry.—(Hear.)
On the motion that Aylesbury be inserted,
Lord NUGENT said that he was sure he was only
representing the cordial wishes of those who elected
'tut in giving his assent to the insertion of Aylesbury.
(Hear, hear.) He could bear testimony to the pure
manner in which both the representatives of Aylesbury
32bad been sent to that House.
Mr. NEWDEGATE suggested that as the Noble
Lord was so anxious for inquiry, Aylesbury should be
Put first in the schedule.
Mr. Q. DICK thought inquiry would be of great ser-
lice, and. was sure it would be for the morality of the
• Ate' tharoughly and radically re-
formed.—(Hear, hear.).
Mr. DISRAELI was not even aware that Aylesbury
was included in the schedule, and he. was struck with
Surprise. at the two speeches he had just heard from the
Members of 'the town of the county which ho repre-
sented. Such maudlin sensibility as considered an im-
Pettehment a fortunate occurrence he could certainly
not understand. His Honourable Friend who spoke last
certeifily had no reason to make the speech he had deli-
vered; and' he must attribute its delivery to the fact of
his,oretorical experience being considerably less than
ula parliamentary.—(A laugh.) .As for the electors of
Aylesbury he (Mr. Disraeli) cared very little for them.
Being people of very little minds, who were advocates
of liberalism and not of liberty, they were generally
Opposed to him.-:—(A laugh.) But Aylesbury was an-1
Id English borough, and he believed, upon his, honour
as a gentleman, that it was as pure as any borough in
the empire, and that a bribe had 'never been offered
Within its extensive bounds.—(Laughter, and cries of
"Oh, oh:') He utterly protested against the two
speeches just made. They were not justified.
They were outrages against the borough. Did
the Hon. Member behind him consider his speech a re-
eommeridation to the hustings on a future occasion? As
for the Noble Lord he was the victim of a too pellucid
aentimentality.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He protested
against the legislation of cant, and he charged the Mem-
berti'for Aylesbury with not doing their duty.
Lord NUGENT said he should very briefly reply to
the'not.over-weighty charge which had just been brought
ageinet him. He scarcely knew whether his sentimen-
tality was " maudlin" or " pellucid," but certainly it did
net arise from the same feeling as the sentimentality of
thellcci. Gentleman who thought Aylesbury ought to
e stemp,ted from the inquiry because it was an ancient
borough.. He did not impeach his constituents. He did
Precisely the reverse. He courted the inquiry, in order
to Clear his constituents, and he hoped the inquiry into
their conduct would be made with the most stringent
severity, which was the only way in which such an in-
vestigation could be useful.
Mr. Q. DICK felt the attack made upon him had
Lecu,,quite uncalled for. He was confident that this
"ur°Pgh would come clean out of the fire of the investi-
gation.
M4NEWDEGATE said this debate was taking an
extraordinary turn—nothing less than an imputation on
the Committee which unseated the late Member for the
horough of Aylesbury. The only object the present
Afelnhers could have would be to reverse the decision.
be question was then put and carried.
beltenham, Sligo, and Lancaster were respectively
added to the schedule without observation.
On the question that Bodmin be added,
Mr. WILD said it was not until the eleventh hour
thm this borough, in the kindness of her Majesty's Soli-
citor-General to one of the supporters of the Govern-
inept, had been added to the schedule appended to this
Ital. For his own part, he had no .objection to inquiFY;
but that Bodmin should be added at the last moment to
a schedule which.had a-preamble imputing bribery and
ccerrruption to the electors was not to be borne. There
Was not an item of evidence to justify such a proceeding,
and if a single'borough against which a petition was to
ha presented was exempted from this Bill, then Bodmin
ought certainly to be excluded. Never had a purer or a
quieter election occurred in Bodmin. It took place at
assize time, and even the judge congratulated the mayor
Alfieri the tranquillity that prevailed, and the county
magistrates and the bar declared they should not
have known that an election was going forward. There
were some gentlemen in that House who appeared in-
clined to tinker the constitution for their own purposes;
but it was sad to reflect that any Minister, in order to
shie.ld himself, should sacrifice the interests of such a
borough as that be represented. Its electorate was com-
posed of a most intelligent body of men, and he should
think they ought rather to be shielded than to have their
frailties mapped out for public inspection.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL owned he did not think
the case of Bodmin a very strong one ; but it had been
subject to „pecial report, and wherever such special re
petit was made he had thought it right to put the
Dorough into the schedule of the-Bill.
Mr. DISRAELI saw by the discussion which had
taken place that there was one object in the Bill—
namely, to decide to which side.,of the House the Mem-
ber for Bodmin belonged.—(Laughter.) Surely, Mr.
Stalicitor-Genersl ought to be ashamed of himself to in-
elude in this Bill a borough represented by such a Mem-
ber- As or the Bill itself it seemed to him to be essen.
tinily miserable, hypercritical, lying, canting Bill
8116h.s.wretched pretence of purity as he had been wit
llefa -to that night he could not have believed possible—
a Solicitor-General getting up and admitting that i
Was " a weak case." Why, who doubted it was weak; and
there were other things weaker than the Bill.—(A
laugh.) What an idea must the country entertain of a
Government that could produce a such a Bill. If the fu-
ture of the. nation depended upon such legislation as this
.its hopes must be small indeed. It the Member for Bod-
min divided, he should divide with him, but he was
bound to say that be brought all this upon himself. Ho
went down to Bodmin with his maps.—(Laughter.) No
wonder he thought them an intelligent constituency.—
cßenewed laughter.) A minister had said, and he was
M a great scrape for it, that " Italy was a geographical
naine." The Member for Bodmin looked on Bodmin as
a geographical name.—(Laughter.) He took down his
'nape and he triumphed geographically.—(Renewed
laughter.) He gave globes not goblets—and he suc-
ceeded. But he would doubtless profit by his experience
in future, and go without his maps. Bodmin was a Cor-
nish borough, and Cornish boroughs always had a bad-
, dish name, though the Hon. Member thought it had, on
this.occasion, profited by his moral and geographical
lessons. Here, however, was a Solicitor-General, not
knowing what names to put in, selecting a borough
merely by chance, and stuffing it into a Bill in which he
, thought ha had discovered the great principle of a new
parliamentary reform. Yes that was the Right Hon.
Gentleman's idea. He fancied that the feeling of the
eountry would approve a measure which brought repro.
bation and punishment upon the gift of a shilling dinner
ticket, and that was his measure of parliamentary refor-
mation.
Col. SIBTHORP said if the Member for Bodmin
divided he should divide with him against this dirty
Bill.—(A laugh.)
Mr. LACY. said he never was more surprised than
when, on Friday last, having returned from the sea-
side, where he had been with a rich relation—(Laughter)
—he heard that Bodmin was to be included in this Bill.
Never was a man who deserved a petition against his
return less than he did. What was his connexion with
Bodmin? Last year he went down there to a dinner
- contieoted with a railway transaction. He was well
received, and in May last he sent a friend down to see
hoW the land lay. He reported that Mr. Wyld was
canvassing with success, and that if he wished to get in
he must start at once. Well, he went down, and he got,
not many promises, he admitted, but a great many
people said, " Why, we don't know who is coming."—
(Shouts of laughter.) "We don't know," they said,
" who is coming; but we can tell you this, that wo are
not going to have our present Members again. One (Sir
S. Spry)is a fool, and the other (Mr:Gardner) is an im-
postor." Well, he (Mr. Lacy) was returned, and what
followed? that he was badgered and bothered out of his life
about this trumpery petition' which turned simply upon
the circumstance of some of his Committee, without his
knowledge, collecting 20/. to give some of the poorer
voters a treat. This was not a case for inquiry, and he
dared them to proceed further against him in the matter.
He said "dare,' because he felt strongly on the subject,
and that he admitted.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he had included
all boroughs 'in the Bill in which there were treating,
without reference to the amount.
Mr. LACY said the treating at Bodmin was not for
' corrupt purposes; that was proved before the Com-
mittee.
Mr. ELLIOT said he really had doubts about this
case. It appeared a very weak one.
Mr. BANKES asked if this Bill was to be passed to
• meet " weak cases." If the Members for Bodmin stood
by their borough as they ought he should vote with
them. Was it worth while to bring in a Bill to prevent
the supply cf these trumpery refreshment tickets?

Mr. G. TURNER also opposed the inteoaes—
Bodmin into the schedule. lie would never consent to
introduce any town respecting which the evidence was
not before them.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he had included
Bodmin and Bolton both, in consequence of what ap-
peared to be the desire of the House.
Mr. HENLEY denied the accuracy of the statement
that Bodmin had been included in the schedule at the
instance of the opposition side of the House.
Dr. BOWRING said, that it bad been the general opi-
nion of both sides of the House that any borough against
which bribery and corruption had been shoe n should be
included in the schedule of this Bill. For his own part,
he should be perfectly ready to vote for the insertion of
Bolton in the schedule were it shown that Bolton was
tainted with corruption.
Mr. E. TURNER considered that the Hon. Mem-
ber for Bodmin was chargeable with no impropriety for
having presented maps to the Literary Institution of
Bodmin.
Colonel SIBTHORP thought it clearly evident that
the Noble Lord opposite, and indeed the Solicitor-Gene-
ral himself, knew nothing of the evidence taken in the
matter before the House. He denounced the Bill as
characterised by gross partiality—the measure should
be one of general application, and such a measure he
would be ready to support. He recommended the Noble
Lord to entertain second thoughts on the question, and
to abandon the measure altogether.
Mr. DISRAELI repudiated the prineiple that two
boroughs having been inserted in a schedule like this
were all at once to be quietly omitted from the schedule,
just because the sitting Members emphatically reminded
the Government of the aid they have given to their
measures. If these boroughs had been fitly inserted,
they should have been retained. After what had occur-
red, the Government ought to explain its motives for
withdrawing Bolton and Bodmin, and the reasons for
continuing Lancaster and Sligo in the disfranchising
schedule. The strange confessions from the Treasury
Bench of that evening ought to induce the Committee
to insist upon the Chairman reporting progress, in order
to give the Solicitor-General time to mature his mea-
sure, and for the purpose of affording the Hon. and
Learned Member this opportunity he begged leave to
move that the Chairman do report progress.
The question being put from the °nem
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he could not but admire
the tactics of the opposite side, which were at once new
and ingenious. It had formed a ground of complaint on
a former evening that there was no recognised leader
of the Opposition who might organize and control the
movements of Hon. Members on the other side of the
House. But a better plan had been devised by them—
that of having two leaders taking opposite views of the
same question and proposing different plans. One of
those'' leaders in the present instance had asked why
Bodmin had not been included in the schedule, as there
had been a report of a Committee against it. The sug-
gestion being adopted, up got the Hon. Member for
Dorsetshire, who said he was prepared to show that
Bodmin had been included in the schedule on light
grounds, which the evidence would not justify, and the
Honourable Members around him (Mr. G. Bankes) sup-
ported his assertion. On looking at the report, his
Honourable and Learned Friend had found that there
was no charge against the sitting Member for Bodmin,
Or the electors, of bribery, and having admitted
that it was too light a case to justify its insertion in
the schedule, he withdrew it. Then up got the other
leader of the Opposition, who said that the Government
was actuated by corrupt motives, for they had only re-
moved Bolton and Bodmin from the schedule, because
the sitting Members voted for them on all occasions.
Observe only the admirable tactics of the opposite side in
thus dealing with the question 1 But the manner of so
treating it showed the advantage of having two leaders
of the Opposition. The Hon. Member for Buckingham-
shire had characterised the Bill as the last act of a melo-
drama, closing the session in a shower of sparks and blue
flames. But it would rather seem that the Hon. Mem-
ber for Dorsetshire and himself had been studying their
parts in a comedy, the dialogue of which had been
settled in a friendly conversation before the curtain
had drawn up that evening. He was quite sure the
Honourable Member for Buckinghamshire would be
prepared to express his indignation at the omission
of the borough of Bodmin, or his surprise at its resto-
ration to the schedule, according to the preconcerted
scheme of the play in which he was to take part.—
(Laughter.) The Hon. Member for Oxfordshire, on the
other hand, was of opinion that the Government ought
to have gone through the evidence in all the cases re-
ported to the House, and, disregarding the reports, have
selected such boroughs only as were most culpable. But
let the House only conceive what the result of such a
course would have been. The Government would have
immediately been accused of having made a selection of
boroughs for disfranchisement upon party motives, whilst
the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire, with his character-
istic ingenuity, would have got a theme to argue upon
which would have lasted him a year at the least.—
(Cheers and laughter.) If the Government had fallen
into the trap prepared for them by the lion. Member for
Oxfordshire, he would have been delighted to have tor-
mented them, and he would never have let them out.
The Government had, however, escaped this snare.
They had been guided by the reports of the Committees,
and whether the cases of bribery and corruption were
great or small,, those reports had formed the
basis as well of the Bill as in drawing up the
schedule, and the suggestions of the various Committees
had been carefully followed. He had heard nothing
during the long discussions which had taken place on
the Bid to shake his opinion that the Government was
hound to carry it into operation, and, in fact, Parlia-
ment had to a great degree pledged itself to do so. If
the principle embodied in the measure came fairly into
operation, Hon. Members on the other side would find
in the end that they would derive as much benefit from
its prOvisions as any other party in that House.
Mr. H NLEY said that the Government had treated
the elective franchise with great levity in consenting to
insert Bodmin in the schedule upon the mere sugges-
tion of an Hon. Member on his side of the House, and
without having made any inquiry as to the degree of
guilt incurred by that borough. He never before wit-
nessed such an instance of reckless dealing with the
franchise as the Bill presented. The principle adopted
by the Solicitor-General was to hang a man first and
examine into his guilt or innocence afterwards. His
Hon. Friend the Member for. Buckinghamshire had
taken a very prudent course in moving that the chair-
man do report progress, and he cordially supported him
in so moving.
Dr. BOW RING could not consent, particularly after
what had just occured, that Bolton should be withdrawn
from the Bill.—(A laugh.) He sincerely and cordially
desired that inquiry should take place at Bolton.
Colonel THOMPSON was of opinion that the with-
drawal of these two boroughs from the Bill might here-
after form the plea that treating was not a thing that
House could take cognizance of; and as he and those
with whom be acted on that side of the House, and he
hoped many on the other side, considered that treating
was identical with bribery, he could not consent to their
withdrawal.
After a few words from Mr. SPOONER, who objected
to the motion for reporting progreas, and from Mr. G.
A. liaieseTost, who supported it with the view of giving
the Government time to reconsider the evidence respect-
ing these two boroughs,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Government would
that night, and therefore reporting, pgress could only
not adopt any other course than trohey were ptir_suing
have the effect of prolonging the session.
After a few words from Mr. HEALD in favour of ex-
cluding Bodmin,
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For reporting progress ......... 35
Against it ........................... 116
Majority .• --81
Mr. DISRAELI repelled the charge that be or his
friends were the advocates of corruption, and accused the
Government of not knowing their own minds by intro-
ducing Bodmin into the Bill and then withdrawing it.
He was not the advocate of corruption—be did not owe
his position in the House to corruption; but he was the
opponent of cant, and, among other kinds of cant, that
which complained of the time taken up in discussions
like these as the Hon. Member for Stockport had com-
plained.—(Hear.) What had saved Bodmin but discus-
sion?—(Hear.) And when the consequences of discus-
sion had been, as it had been that night, to occasion a
change in the opinion of Government, he would protest
against any attempt to prevent it.
Mr. T. HOBHOUSE—It appeared that the principle
that the inquiry should extend only to those boroughs
against which special reports had been presented
by the Select Committee up stairs was now to be
abandoned. He wished to know why Horsham,
which had never been convicted of bribery, was to be
t e
included in the schedule? He called on the Solicitor-
General
ewhatt
w ae principle
proof
ethe
bribery, scheduleo
was r
betobassetdat—e on
whethr
whether mere treating was to be sufficient? He, as a
Member for one of the accused boroughs (Lincoln), was
not prepared, like the Hon. Member for Bolton, to throw
his constituency overboard. Until the principle on
which the Bill was to proceed was distinctly laid down,
he objected to proceed further with it.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL hoped he should be
excused going into a discussion over and over again, as
to the propriety of the withdrawal of Bodmin from trie
schedule, upon which the House had unanimously decided;
and when the Hon. Member for Bucks rose to speak,
the Chairman stated that the question was already de-
cided, and two hours had been since occupied uselessly.
He would not take up the time of the House by attempt-
ing to repel the charges brought aginst him by the lion.
Member for Bucks, but would leave it to the House to
say how far by his conduct, since he had been a Mem-
ber, he had deserved them.—(Hear, hear.) He en-
treated the House to proceed with the discussion on the
Bill, avoiding personal attacks.—(Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI repeated that in this case discussion
had been of use, and charged the Solicitor-General with
having misrepresented the real facts of the case.
After a few words from the Solicitor-General, Colonel
Sibthorp, and Dr.-Bowring,
Mr. lIOBHOUSE complained that no answer had
been given to his question as to the principle of the Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL had already detailed the principle
of the Bill at length—which was that the reports of
Committees should be the- only thing to be attended to,
but that the general substance of thosegeports should be
the guide, and when the substance showed considerable
bribery or corruption had prevailed, those boroughs
should be included in the schedule.
Mr. WYLD wished to say that he had supported the
Government not in consequence of any compact with
them, but because he agreed with their general policy.
It was not on the ground of his being a supporter of
Government that they had consented to withdraw ;Bod-
min from the schedule.
After an observation from Colonel SIBTHORP,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that when he proposed that
the Chairman should leave the chair, he did so with a
view that the amendments might be brought up and
printed,

to insert Bolton in the Bill ?
Lord J. RUSSELL did not mean '-to insert Belton;
but it was quite open to any Hon. Member to move its
insertion.
Captain HARRIS objected to the Bill as despotic in
its character, and calculated to convert that House into
a judicial tribunal. He thought that they were exceed-
ing their power in passing such a law.
The borough of Bodmin was then struck out of the
schedule.
Mr. M'KENZIE moved that Bolton be inserted.
Mr. G. A. HAMILTON seconded the motion. He
thought it only just that Bolton should be inserted, as
there was a wide distinction between it and Bodmin, in
which case no bribery had been proved.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it l4
Majority for the motion
The borough of Bolton was then inserted, the House
resumed, and the report was brought up.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL moved that the Bill
be re-committed for the purpose of being reprinted.
Mr. NEWDEGATE asked if Sligo and Lancaster
were inserted in the schedule.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Yes.
The Bill was then recommitted, the amendments were
agreed to, and the report was ordered to be brought up
on Thursday next.
SUGAR DUTIES.
In answer to Lord G. BENTINCK,
Lord J. RUSSELL was inclined to name Wednesday
next for the sugar duties.
After a conversation, Friday was fixed for the dis
cussion.

NAVY ESTIMATES.
In answer to Colonel SIBTHORP,
Lord 3. RUSSELL stated that he would take the navy
estimates at twelve to-day; and, if they had been gone
through, the miscellaneous estimates at five.
FEES (COURT OF CHANCERY) BILL.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL moved the second
reading of this Bill.
Mr. GOULBURN opposed the Bill. He put it to the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman whether it would not be
better to adopt the arrangement which bad already bean
nan
carried out in the Irish courts, than topropose
entirely new principle. The Bill gave unheard-of
powers to the Lord Chancellor, which usurped the
authority of the Treasury, and would lead to the greatest
inconvenience. He advised the Hon. and Learned Soli-
citor-General to withdraw this Bill, and adopt the prin-
ciple of the measure which had been adopted for the
courts in Ireland, and worked beneficially in that
country.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the courts I
here were in a different position to that in which the
courts of Ireland were at the time of the passing the
Act referred to. There most of the officers of the
rs court
had been paid by fees, and here vary few office
remunerated by fees, but received fixed salaries. Ho
admitted that the plan of this Bill was not matured, but
hoped it would be allowed a second reading, and in
Committee the measure might be made perfect.
Mr. HENLEY would not object to the second reading,
but held that the measure required much alteraticn and
modification.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL supported the Bill,
the principles of which had, he believed, been approved
by the Select Committee on fees in courts of law.
Mr. GOULBURN would not further object to the
second reading, but reserved to himself the right to
take any course he might think proper in the next stage
of the Bill.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed on Friday next.
POOR REMOVAL (No. 2) BILL.
Mr. SPOONER moved the second reading of this Bill,
Mr. CLEMENTS objected to its being proceeded with
at that hour.
Mr. SPOONER hoped the second reading would not
be objected to, as the Bill was merely intended to remove
doubts which had arisen in the construction put on the
provisions of the Act of 1846.
Mr. CLEMENTS said if the Bill removed all doubts
he should not object, but the Bill would not produce that
effect.
After a few words from Mr. C. Anstey, Mr. Henley,
Mr. C. Buller, and Major Blackall, the Bill was read a
second time.
FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.
On the bringing up the report on this Bill, a variety
of verbal alterations and amendments were proposed by
Sir W. Somerville, Colonel Dunne, Mr. Frewen, Mr.
Monsell, and Mr. Anstey.
Some of them gave rise to considerable discussion.
Ultimately the" report was received.
NEW BILLS.
Leave was given to introduce the following Bills,
which were brought in and read a first time
On the motion of Mr. F MAULE, a Bill to amend
the Acts for rendering effective the service of the Chelsea
and Greenwich out-pensioners, and to extend them to
the pensioners of the East India Company.
On the motion of Sir W. SOMERVILLE, a Bill to
amend and continue for a limited time an Act to make
provision for the treatment of poor persons afflicted
with fever in Ireland '; and a Bill for the appointment
of additional taxing masters of the High Court of Chan-
cery in Ireland.
The House adjourned at a Quarter to Two o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, August 10.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
at Five o'clock.
RUM DUTIES BILL.
This Bill was read a third time.
LAND-TAT COMMISSIONERS NAMES BILL.
This Bill was also read a third time.
PAISLEY, BARRHE
AY
BILL AD, AND HURLET RAIL-
W .
On the motion that this Bill be read a third time.
Lord BEAUMONT called the attention of their Lord-
ships to a petition against the Bill from the tirlasgow,
Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway Company, and
moved that this Bill be read a third time this day six
months.
The Earl of DEVON, as Chairman of the Committee
which passed the Bill, supported the decision, and ex-
plained the grounds on which he did so.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
CONFERENCE WITH THE COMMONS.
A conference was requested by the Commons with
their Lordships on this Bill, which was granted, and held
in the Royal Gallery. The Lords appointed were the
Earls of Devon, Granville, Strafford, Canning, Redes-
dale, and Hardwicke.
Earl DEVON, on the return of their Lordships, re-
ported the result of their conference.
EMIGRATION TO AUSTRALIA.
Earl GREY laid pliers on the table with respect
to emigration to Australia, in continuation of those
previously presented. He said, emigration to that
colony, even if .carried to a much greater extent
than at present, would not relieve to a percep-
table extent the number of the population at
home. The average cost of a voyage, including
clothing and provisions, was 201. The average
Number who for the last seven years had gone out was
122,000; whilst last year the number had increased to
258,000, the cost of carrying out whom could not be
less than 2,500,0001. He did not wish to under-
rate the importance of emigration to Australia,
as it afforded an eligible receptacle to those who could
not succeed in making a living at home. The colonies
provided a great quantity of tallow and other useful raw
materials, whilst they took a vast quantity of the produ.ce of
the mother country; therefore emigration to that part of
our dominions should be encouraged to the utmost extent.
The Noble Lord then referred to the rapid increase of
the prosperity of New South Wales and Van Diemen's
Lead, at the present moment, as compared with what
it was in the year 1828, when the population, includ-
ing the convict inhabitants, was but 53,000:
now it was 300,000, or five or sixfold ; in
1828 the exports increased in value but
181,0001., whilst in 1645, the last year for which the
returns had been completely made up, their value was
2,189,000/., showing an increase in seventeen years
of twelvefold the amount in 1828.—(Hear.) In 1850,
when he first knew anything about these colonies, there
gsofuorthtwhealeems.igrTahtieonexopfenthses
of emigration at that time was much larger than could
guchel
ascssheesmteoe aNi setwin
raabsounroins
were no means of emigratt
his on for that class of society. In
Noble Friend Lord Ripon
be afforded by a labouring man, EO that practically there
the course of they ear 1830 and at the same time the
tuitous grants in Australia;
the revenue realised by
principle was laid down that
carrying out labourers
established a system for the of land instead of
those sales sales should be applied to .
head of which the Duke of Richmond presided,and of
which The first
which he himself (Earl Grey) was a
to that colony. A commission was app
head at thef
shipowners to furnish a passage at a cheaper rate.
measure of that commission was to prevail upon the
They did so; but the funds applicable to emigration
were at that time exceedingly. small, and for the first
few years the progress of emigration was so slow that
no very valuable result was likely to arise from it.
But the measure itself being founded on a sound
principle, its operation gradually increased, until the
results became very important. In 1837 the extent of
emigration had so far increased that his Noble Friend,
who was then Secretary for the Colonies, appointed a
separate commission for the management of that business,
and hence the origin of the Land and Emigration Com-
mission. That Commission adopted measures of incal-
culable importance, both for the benefit of this country
and the colonies. At that time the population of New
South Wales was only 77,000, but in the course of ten
years the population was almost doubled, emigration
having added to it not less than 62,000 persons. Those
persons were sent out under the superintendence of the
Commissioners, and the'greatest possible advantage had
resulted from that proceeding. At the same period the
Commissioners sent out to South Australia about 10,000
persons ; the New Zealand Company also sent out about
7,000 ; so that altogether in those ten years there were
sent out between 90,000 and 100,000 emigrants to these
colonies, of whom no less than 80,000 were provided
with a passage out of the sums derived from the sale of
colonial lands. After this general statement he would
now turn for a moment to one or two individual cases
by which the result would appear still more remarkable.
The great district of Port Philip in Australia and the
colony of New Zealand had been the creation of not
t tierurr eemdn
apmorenb di i3pot
onlyoh ai
in
ntaeunfme years. ee asr re.
March, 1846,
inhabitantsagos4 there 6
,the
s f
population
between
eai
ent Pn2ooor
otf
that district, according to the last census, was 32,800.
The town of Melbourne contained between 8,000 and
10,000 ,inhabitants. The imports into the colony in
1847 amounted to 205,0001., the exports to 343,0001.,
and the general revenue was no less than 68,0001.; the
territorial revenue, by the sale of land, was 70,000/.;
making altogether a revenue of 138,000/. collected in a
district which only ten or twelve years ago had been
occupied by 200 or 300 persons. In South Australia
the results were Omost equally remarkable. But he

DU-101111,1 11l I,: Ira try. o an, -
table. It was important to observe that Port Philip,
now having a thriving community, had been established
without one shilling of expense to the mother-country ;
and even South Australia, although it had had tem-
porary difficulties to encounter, and had cost, com-
paratively, a considerable sum, yet it had now
entirely emerged from those difficulties, and had con-
tinued steadily to advance till a large surplus revenue
had been realised, which was appropriated to the convey-
ance of emigrants to that country. Neither could it be
said that the success of that colony was owing to the
great mineral wealth which had been discovered there,
because the difficulties of the colony, which were at their
height in 1840, had in 1843 been completely overcome,
and the colony was in a state of advancing prosperity
before the mines had been opened to an extent of any
importance. It was entirely a mistake to suppose that
these colonies had been formed by merely one class of
society, or by the emigration of labourers only. So far
from that being the case there were to be found settled in
those colonies retired officers of the army and navy—
gentlemen who had taken high degrees and honours at
the universities, and many other persons of education
and intelligence. Indeed, both in South Australia and
New South Wales there was a very largo population of
superiorly educated and intelligent men. He must there-
fore say, that looking at this state of facts, it was impos-
sible to admit the truth of what had been very confidently
asserted—that the art of colonization was lost to the
present age. On the contrary, he believed that coloni-
zation never had, in the history of the world, made such
rapid progress as in the instances he had stated to their
Lordships.—(Hear, hear.) He would recal their Lord-
ships' attention for a moment to a very interesting com-
parison drawn by Mr. Merivale, now Assistant-Secretary
of State for the Colonies, between the progress made by
the South Australian colonies and the old colonies
which now constituted the United States of North
America. The progress of the new colonies, as corn-
pared with the old colonies, was really marvellous. The
population of Sydney in 1836 was 19,000; in ten years
it was actually doubled, and in 1846 was 38,000. Com-
paring this with the old colony of Boston, its population
in 1790 (170 years after its foundation) was 18,000. The
population of the city of New York in 1773 (immediately
before the breaking out of the war), was only 21,896,
being 17,000 less than Sydney at the present day. The
population of Philadelphia, in 1780, was 28,528. The
population of the old American colonies, in 1773, was
about 2,300,000; and the population of the Australian
colonies, in 1845, was 283,873. r
the trade of the two classes of colr
e eh
ieens wt
hi tehrespect
imports to
the old American colonies, in 1773, amounted to little
above 1,000,000/., while the imports of the Australian
colonies, in 1845, amounted to 2,070,0001. The exports
of the old American colonies, in 1773, were short of
2,000,0001., while the exporta of the Australian colonies,
in 1845, were 2,185,000/.; or,
if
a
be-
tween thevalueot the trade, pee.heird, ali w
on,
the
erpe taken
opuletiee,
it would appear that the imports, per head, for the old
American colonies, was Bs. 9d., and for Australian
71. 10d.; and the exports, per head, for the former,
16s. Bd., and for the latter, 71. 14s. 3d. Such had been
the progress of these colonies. He thought their Lord-
ships would agree that this statement sufficiently refuted
the common notion that the art of colonization was a
lost one; that the population of this country were less
enterprising and adventurous than the population of
former days; and that there was less capital employed
in carrying on such enterprises with advantage.—(Hear,
hear.) On the contrary, he believed that if their Lord-
ships contrasted the progress—almost without a check
—and the steady and uniform current of prosperity of
these colonies with the difficulties and the formidable
calamities which in earlier days were experienced by the
old American colonies, the result would indeed be most
remarkable. And this result, he begged to repeat, was
owing entirely to the enterprising and persevering spirit
of the population of this country, aided as they had been
by modern science and modern improvements in the art
of navigation. When, above all, their Lordships consi•
dered the great difference in the length of the voyage to
the old colonies in America and the Australian colo-
nies, the result of the comparison became still more
striking. But, great as this progress had been, he was
far from taying it was not the duty of Parliament and
the Government to use all such means as were in their
power for giving a still increased impetus to the system
of emigration. He wished to show their Lordships that
this had not been overlooked. In 1845, for want of funds,
emigration to Australia was nearly stopped. In 1846
the Land Emigration Commission was in a position to
recommence their labours, and in that year about 2,000
persons were sent to the colonies. Since then the stream
of emigration to South Australia had steadily and con-
stantly been flowing. Last year the Governor of New
South Wales reported that the debt which had been
charged upon the Crown revenues was nearly paid off,
and he believed that he might safely venture'to resume
promoting emigration to that port. Sir C. Fitzroy sent
in support of that opinion a report, in consequence of
which he (Earl Grey) directed the Emigration Commis-
sioners immediately to resume sending emigrants to the
port of Sydney, and accordingly towards the close of
last year emigration was resumed. The first ship sailed
about the month of October. Since then ships to New
South Wales had been continually going, the funds appli-
cable to those purposes having more than kept pace with
the demand. By a return in his possession it appeared
that in the present year there bad already sailed to New
South Wales 23 emigrant ships, carrying 5,343 emi-
grants; that there had sailed 11 ships to South Aus-
tralia, carrying 2,736 emigrants; making a total of 8,059
emigrants. A great many more ships, estimated as
many as 40, were expected to be dispatched before the
close of the present year, carrying out no less than
10,000 persons. So that in the course of the present
year there would be added to the population of those
two colonies, New South Wales and South. Australia, not
less than 13,059 persons, which would be an increase of
between eight and nine per cent. upon the whole pre-
vious population. In South Australia the population at
There had
since been dispatched by the Land and Emigration Coln-
the commencement of 1346 was 22,330.
taissioners nearly 8,000 emigrants, or more than one-
third of the then existing population. In New South
Wales, according to a report dated September, 1847, of
a Committee of the Legislative Council, the number
of hired servants throughout the colony did not exceed
30,000. The number of emigrants to be dispatched in
1848 would be nearly 13,000. So much as to the extent
of emigration to be carried on this year. He now
wished for a moment to call the attention of their Lord-
ships to the manner in which this service had been
formed by the Land and Emigration CoMmioners.
He held in his hand a paper which was an enclosure in
a recent dispatch, being a report of the Colonial Secre-
tary in South Australia to the Governor of that colony,
immigrants
with respect to the condition of the emigrants.
said—" The healthy condition in which the He
were landed from the several vessels which have arrived
in this colony during the past quarter, and the total
absence of any complaints, either from the passengers
or on the part of those under whose direction they were
placed during the voyage, are facts which of themselves
speak most favourably for the arrangements made in
England in connexion with this service. The emigrants
migrants
were generally well selected, and suited to the wants of
this country. The superintendents appear, without ex-
ception, faithfully to have discharged the duties
en-
trusted to them; and although some few alterations in
the minor details of the arrangement hale been recom-
mended by them in their daily journals, still the circum-
stances above mentioned, concurring as they do to show
the efficiency of the measures adopted to promote the t
varied interests at stake, cannot but be satisfactory .o
the Commissioners, on whom so much responsibility is
devolved. The vessels employed in the in
vice make quicker passages than those engaged only
the conveyance of merchandise; of those which arrive(
in the colony during the last three months, the longest
on the voyage was 106, the shortest 89 days, making an
not be
average in the whole of 94 1-3 days. It may
foreign to the present report here to remark, tha the
young unmarried females who immigrate to this colony,
without friends or relations on board, a emigration
are on their attire'
here at once removed from on board the vessels in which
they were brought to a house in Adelaide, where every
necessary comfort is in readiness for their reception.
They were placed under the immediate Control of a ma-
tron, and a committee of ladies have benevolently under-
taken to assist them in finding suitable employment."
He would now proceed to state some of the measures
which had been adopted for increasing and extending
emigration to these colonies. In the first place he must
remark that the expense must be mainly provided for
by the colonies themselves. The voyage was so much
longer and so much more expensive than the voyage
to America, that unless the colonies paid a very large
portion of the expense the emigrants would in all
Cases prefer going to America, either to the British
colonies or to the United States, A considerable pro-
portion of the expenses actually came from private
sources in this country. The voyage to South Australia
was about three months, 'and somewhat longer to New
South Wales, and occasioned a very expensive outfit,
more especially for clothes, the emigrants being exposed
to the vicissitudes of the climate. This expense was
calculated to cost the emigrant about 6/,, which rather
exceeded the whole 511[11 for which they could obtain
their voyage to America. The instructions which he
(Earl Grey) had given to the Land and Emigration
Commissioners on this head were,these—that they were
to consider themselves as trustees acting for the colonies
and to see that the greatest amount of good was ren-
dered to the deloniste by the application of the land
fund. They were to watch carefully the demand made
for a passage to America and to the colonies and to
raise as much as they could the amount to be contri-
buted by individuals. Those applications varied very
much in number from year to year. About a year ago, I
the harvest making a great demand for labour, there
was some difficulty in obtaining a full number of emi-
grants from the different parts of the United Kingdom
for Australia. But now, unfortunately owing to the de-
pression of trade and the diminution of employment,
there was a great demand for passages to the Australian
colonies; and the agents of the Commissioners were able
to ald an additional 11. to be contributed by the emi-
grants themselves towards the cost of the voyage, thus
making the amount available from the colonies sufficient
for carrying out a larger number of emigrants. In some
oases larger contributions were raised from individuals
passage who was not strictly qualified ac-
owing to peculiar circumstances. When a person ap-
pliedcording to the rules to be an emigrant, as being adapted
to the wants of the colonies, the Commissioners were
directed, in consideration of some additional payment,
to accept such a person as Yin emigrant who would not
for a
otherwise be taken. He would mention an instance.
In consequence of the recent French revolution a
large number of English workmen were compelled
to leave France. Those were persons engaged in
manufactures and were not used to agricultural la-
bour, and therefore not the most eligible class for
emigration. But it being doubtful whether they would
obtain employment at home, and as they were anxious
to proceed to the colonies, he wished to afford them
every facility to do so, and after consulting Lord Ashley
on the subject it was arranged that if a private aubscrip-
,

to tho colonies. He had reason to ; believe they would
prove a most valuable class of emigrants. There was
another measure from which he expected to derive very
valuable results. Those who had attended to the emi-
gration were aware that large sums of money were re-
mitted from Canada and the United States to this
country by persons who had emigrated, especially from
.Ireland, for the purpose of enabling their friends to go
out and join them. This he considered to be emigration
of the best description. There were great facilities for
making these remittances from America, but in Australia
no such facilities existed. It was determined to
afford them, and accordingly an arrangement had been
entered into with the Treasury by which it was
now in the power of any emigrant, by paying money
to the consulate, to have it remitted to any person
in whose favour it was deposited. The wages in
Australia were higher than those in America, and la-
bour continued all the year, so that opportunities for
necumulation were greater there than in America. He
had reason to hope that the working men would club to-
gether and enable one or more of their friends to emi-
grate, in the first instance, who should afterwards make
remittances to them to assist others to go out to join
them. He would not at present allude to New Zealand
or the Cape, because the papers he had referred only to
the Australian colonies. Large emigration this year
would lead to larger next, because those who went out as
labourers soon became themselves employers of labour.
With regard to the North American colonies, it was the
anxious intention of her Majesty's Government to devise
means which could be adopted to promote emigration to
that quarter. The Noble Earl then referred to a speech
hich had just been received, addressed by Sir C. Fitz-
roy to the Legislative Council of kNew South Wales, on
opening the session on the 24th of March in the present
3 ear. He said—" It is consolatory to reflect that, not-
withstanding the commercial depression which pre-
veils to so great an extent in the another country,
and the consequent low prices of colonial produce in
that market, the chief resources of this colony
have continued to increase in a manner alike rapid and
surprising. The exports of wool—its main staple—
reached in the past year the large quantity of upwards
of 22,000,0001 b., of the official value of 1,260,0001., being
an increase on the previous year exceeding 5,700,0001 b.
in weight, or equal to the whole export of that article in
the year 1838. The export of tallow in 1847 was 69,000
cwt., of the official value of 107,0001., being an increase
on the previous year of 49,000 cwt. It is our privilege
to continue to enjoy, under the blessing of Divine Provi-
dence, a great superabundance of all the necessaries of
life, of the best quality, and procurable at very moderate
rates. Although the advanced and still rising price of
agricultural and pastoral labour, consequent on its
scarcity, has lately pressed so severely on the employers,
it has on the other hand been the source of highly re-
munerative employment to the working classes; but, as
no community in the aggregate can long continue to be
prosperous where the fair profits of the capitalist are
liable to be absorbed in the payment of an excessive or
disproportionate rate of wages, I have endeavoured, by
seeking fresh supplies of labour from the mother country,
to restore that equilibrium, the maintenance of which
between the two classes is so essential to the general as
well as to their mutual welfare. The anticipations
which I entertained in my last opening address to the
Council have, I am glad to say, been fully realised.
The whole of the Land and Immigration Debentures
have been paid off, and the territorial revenue has
exhibited so prosperous a state as to have enabled me to
request her Majesty's Government to send out to the
colony, in addition to the 5,000 statute adults already
promised—and of whom the two first shiploads lately
arrived in the Hyderabad and Lady Peel—an equal
number in the ensuing season. There is every prospect
that the whole of this immigration may be effected with-
out the necessity of incurring any debt. The territorial
revenue will thus remain available as a security for rais-
ing the necessary funds for any additional supply of
labour which circumstances may render expedient. The
emigrants now in progress of arriving are to be selected
equally from the three great divisions of the United
Kingdom. They are also to be equally divided between
the Sydney and Port Philip districts, and the expense
charged accordingly, so that each district will
arl rece
con-
ive
the number for which it pays." The Noble E
cluded by laying the papers on the table of the House.
Lord MONTEAGLE confessed that while he had
heard from his Noble Friend much which was consola-
tory to him as confirming the principles which he had
long advocated, be had at the same time heard with
a dismay which it was impossible for him to describe the
small promise, or rather the no promise at all, which his
Noble Friend had held out with respect to this impor-
tant subject. He was persuaded that this feeling of dis-
appointment and dismay would be participated in by the
great bulk of the population who had turned their atten-
tion to this question—from the higher class, who viewed
it merely as a matter of political or philosophical inte-
rest, to the poorer class, whose very existence was in-
volved in it. He confessed he was disappointed in the
Noble Lord's speech on many accounts. lie was disap-
pointed, in the first place, with respect to the Noble
Lord himself ; for if ever an individual was pledged to
consider this question on a large and comprehensive
scale, his Noble Friend was the individual who stood so
pledged. The first act of the Noble Lord's official life
was to introduce this question to the consideration of
the other House of Parliament ; and in order to show
the views which his Noble Friend then entertained on
the subject he would trouble their Lordships with an
extract from the speech delivered on that occasion :
" I3efore any measure could be introduced for the perma-
nent relief of the poor in Ireland it would be absolutely
necessary to relieve that country from its superabund-
ance of population. The transfer of a part of our super- I
abundant labourers to the colonies would be equally be-
neficial to all parties, by diminishing the overwhelming
competition under which they now suffer ; to the settler,
by affording him the means of cultivating his land ; and
both to this country and to the colony, by relieving much
of the distress now existing in the former. and by adding
to the productive industry of the latter." On Mr. C. But-
ler's motion in 1843 the Noble Lord said :—" His opi-
nion was strongly fixed that we were, it was true, on the
right road, but that we had not made all the progress
that was desirable. He thought it of tho greatest im-
portance that emigration should be encouraged to a
much greater extent than at present, and he believed it
was in the power of her Majesty's Ministers to take
measures that would give much greater extension to the
system than it now possessed." He appealed to their
Lordships whether in the scbeme which his Noble Friend
had submitted to them on the present occasion there was
any approximation to the enlarged and systematic scheme
of colonization which was shadowed forth in he extracts
he had just read? Then how did the Colonial-office
stand with respect to this question? On the Ist of June,
1847, an address was moved and carried unanimously,
praying that her Majesty would " take into her most
gracious consideration the means by which colonization
may be made subsidiary to other measures for the im-
provement of the social condition of Ireland ; and by
which, consistently with a full regard to the interests
of the colonies themselves, the comfort and prosperity
of those who emigrate may be effectually promoted.
On that occasion—although no commission was ap
pointed, which was the object of the motion
—4t was distinctly promised by the Government that
an inquiry should take place.—(Hear, hear.) Her
Majesty's reply to that address was as follows :—" I
have taken into my consideration the address of my
faithful Commons. I am deeply sensible of the advan-
tage which may be derived from the adoption of further
measures for the promotion of colonization; and I will
direct such inquiries to be made as may enable Parlia-
ment to adopt a course free from those evils which any
precipitate legislation on the subject might cause both to
the emigrants and the colonies." Such was the engage-
ment entered into by the Government and the Crown in
relation to the address of the Cooknons. He asked his
Noble Friend whether any step had since been taken on
the subject?—( ' Hear, hear,' from Earl Grey.) Well,
ho asked his Noble Friend to produce the dispatches re-
lating to the subject. If he had taken any step, he had
withheld the information which Parliament had a right
to require at his hands; but, until he obtained that in-
formation, he would state in his place in Parliament that
the Government entered into an engagement which was
ratified by the Queen, that an inquiry should he made
for the purpose of procuring information; that, so far
as Parliament was informed, no such inquiry had been
made; and that, if it had been made, the information
respecting it had been withheld from Parliament, for
that up to this moment it had never been produced.
This was a very serious charge, and one which ought to
be seriously met. The conduct of the Colonial-office on
this subject, he confessed, created great mistrust in his
mind, because it showed that speeches and motions
might be acquiesced in for the purpose of avoiding an
inconvenient subject, and escaping those obligations
which a due consideration of the question could not fail
to impose upon them. The Noble Lord had escaped al-
together from the consideration of the case of British
America. The fact was, that his Noble Friend had done
something to obstruct and check emigration to North
America, to the great disappointment of all who were
interested in the question of emigration, but he had done
nothing to promote it. Last year, owing to the unfor-
tunate calamity which prevailed in Ireland, many of the
emigrants who went out from that country were in a
state of disease. The colonists naturally complained
that the emigrants who were brought over to them were
weak, infirm, and sick, and that they propagated fever in
all parts of America. He admitted the fact, and thought
it afforded the best answer to the proposal of allowing
the system of unaided, undirected emigration to con-
tinue. But he wished to avoid these evils in future,
both for the sake of the colonies and the mother country.
Well, at the suggestion of his Noble Friend, a
tax was imposed upon the emigrants for the purpose
of defraying their hospital expenses and relieving
the colonies of that burden; but he found on
comparing the tax recommended by his Noble Friend
with that imposed by the colonists, that the latter was
exactly double that of the former. The United States
were equally interested with British North America in
guarding against the burden of maintaining e
ttaxhe si ick
emigrants, and they imposed a tax too,—but m-
posed by the British North American colonists upon
their fellow-subjects was actually higher than that im-
posed by the United States upon foreigners. The effect
bad been to turn the tide of emigration from the British
colonial shores to the United States. In the month of
May, 1846, the total emigration was 21,334 ; in 1847,
50,328 ; in 1848, 28,281. The emigration to the United
States in May, 1846, was) 13,254 ; in 1847, 18,029 ;
in 1843, 22,672 ; whereas the emigration to British
North America, in May, 1846, was 7,760 ; in 1847,
31,188 ; and in 1848 it had fallen to 3,866, in conse-
quence of the operation of the emigrant The
tax.
Noble Lord, in a dispatch addressed to the Earl of Elgin,.
had stated his conviction that an enlarged system
emigration would greatly benefit the North Ameri:
can colonies. Why, then, did not the Noble Lord
address the Earl of Elgin with a view to the
te
d
adop-
tion of some practical scheme for dischargihngurg ed,
h
? Lie
duty which he admitted was capable of being
isce
and which it was, d
therefore, his duty to IBCbar g

324,000LTiough the annual produce vil—ifilne-Orde was
fix( d at IL per acre was only 12,0001., 9,0001., 18,0001., i
and 27,000/. in different years. In Goulburn the farmers
would not grow wheat for want of a market, as appeared 1
from a letter of the Speaker of the New South Wales
Legislature, who remarked that they must have labour
of some kind; free labour if they could get it; if not,
then prison labour. Instead, he added, of importing
Indian corn, it would be better were the Government to
transfer the millions starving at home to a country
where Indian corn was a production of the soil, and
thereby at once relieve the mother country of a load
which was increasing annually, and pressing on her re-
sources in the most fearful manner. The results of the
laissez faire system adopted by the Noble Lord showed
its absurdity when contrasted with those of the system
which had been applied to the Cape, when, in 1822,
50,000/. were appropriated for the purposes of that colony;
the revenue and exports of the Cape had very largely in-
creased; and such, he believed, was the effect of the on •
ginal interposition on the part of the Crown. Did the
Noble Lord think the country would be satisfied with so
meagre a measure as he had proposed, with a plan which
was certainly no statesmanlike plan? Some years ago
emigration was often characterised as a plan for clearing
away peasants from the estates of landlords in Ireland,
and paupers from parishes in England. The question
Iwas now better understood, as one which ought to be
discussed without reference to selfish interests, but with
a view to the well• being of the people themselves, the
mother country, and the colonies, as an imperial ques-
tion. It was matter of deep regret that in the statement
of the Noble Lord there was nothing, to show that he
had considered this question with reference to any prin-
ciple of systematic continuous colonization, nothing to
lead the people of England to cherish the slightest ex-
pectation that, through the agency of the Noble Lord in
the colonies, any possible relief would be afforded.
Earl GREY must crave permission to make a few re-
marks after the elaborate attack made on him by the
Noble Lord in a speech in which the Noble Lord had
shown so much ingenuity in putting the worst possible
construction on every measure he had adopted. The
Noble Lord charged him with inconsistency in having,
when not in office, urged extensive measures of coloni-
zation very different from what he now supported. But
in the very speech he (Earl Grey) had made on Mr.
C. Buller's motion in the House of Commons, he defined
what he considered to be the real objects to be attained,
and what he considered to be the duty of the State with
respect to emigration, in nearly the same terms as he
had defined them to-night. As a positive means of
effecting a reduction of the number of the popula-
tion, he never believed emigration was of any real
value. Any attempt on the part of the State to create a
sudden and violent diminution of the numbers of the
people by artificial means would necessarily and in-
evitably be followed by a greater rapidity in the rate of
increase of the population, which would more than sup-
ply the vacuum. It was well known that after pestilence
famine, and war, the vacuum was supplied with extraor-
dinary rapidity. In some parts of the country, especi-
ally in Ireland, there was a local congestion of popula-
tion; and, from political as well as economical con-
siderations, there were practical difficulties which
prevented that labour front being applied at home,
though it might be with advantage under a system of
emigration. The great difference between his Noble
Friend and himself seemed to be that his Noble Friend
thought some enormous grant, some millions of public
money, ought to be applied to emigration purposes. He
(Earl Grey), on the other hand, greatly doubted whether
making such grants out of the taxes, the State
undertaking to plant large numbers of people
on vacant lands in the colonies, was a more pru-
dent plan than the other plan of the State, only inter-
fering to assist and direct, so that the emigration
should be spontaneous, rather than artificial. He
had shown the progress of the Australian colonies owing
to the system which, in a subordinate situation, he had
assisted to carry into effect. The rate of ss. per acre
for land was as strongly resisted at the time as that of
20s. per acre now. 20s. was the minimum, not the
maximum price; the average price of purely agricul-
tural land at present was not 11., but 1/. 3s. or 1/. 4s.
Contrasting the working of the system adopted in South
Australia with that of the system adopted in Port Philip,
what was the result? Tho colony of West Australia
was founded some years before that of South Australia.
It was formed on the principle of granting land. From
that time to this its whole civil establishment had
been defrayed by votes of Parliament. It was unable
at this moment to pay its own expenses. The popu-
lation was under 5,000. South Australia, on the other
hand, was founded on the principle of selling land,
and sending out emigrants ; and, instead of lan-
guishing like the other, it had been for the last eight
years in a state of the most unexampled prosperity. The
Noble Earl then proceeded to vindicate the Government
from the accusation that nothing whatever had been
done consequent upon the address of last year, and as-
sured his Noble Friend that he was entirely mistaken ;
for the Government had been in constant correspond-
ence with the different colonies upon this important sub-
ject. He regretted to hear the invidious comparison
drawn by his Noble Friend between the conduct of Ca-
nada and New York in regard to emigration. The truth
was that Canada had exerted itself in a most praise-
worthy manner in the promotion of emigration, and the
papers that would be laid upon the table would fully
establish that fact. Had his Noble Friend seen those
papers he would never have drawn such a distinction.
lie had always been an advocate of the assisting and
guiding emigrants by the Government, and they had
been so assisted and guided ; and if the Government
were to go further, it would undertake a task beyond its
power, and would do more injury than service to erni-

gratton.
UNLAWFUL OATHS ACTS (IRELAND) CON-
TINUANCE AND AMENDMENT BILL.
The LORI) CHANCELLOR moved the second read
ing of this Bill, of the objects and purport of which he I
gave a brief description. The object was to continue the
Acts George IV. and 2 and 3 Victoria, with certain
amendments. The law as it stood would be sufficient to
deal with illegal meetings, without further provisions, if'
the real character of such meetings could be ascertained,
and if it could be discovered what was going on there;
but it was impossible, without further enactments, to as
certain what was passing at meetings that were secret,
and unless a measure could be framed by which the ex-
tensive conspiracies carried on at clubs and the ramifi-
cations of societies now extending throughout the
country could be suppressed, it was in vain to hope
for tranquillity in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Their
Lordships had seen open war, to some extent, carried
on against her Majesty's forces, and this had been ac-
complished in a great degree by the working of these
different societies. The object to be obtained was, ac-
curate information by which the nature of the societies
might be discovered, and the persons guilty of illegal I
practices at those meetings might be brought before
magistrates. This Bill authorised the police to enter
the places where meetings were held, and to search for
books and papers, which would show their design and
character. It bad been suggested that the Bill should
provide a more immediate remedy against the person;
but this was unnecessary, for if the meeting was not
secret, and was confined to proper objects, it was legal;
but if the books and papers of a society showed that its
objects were illegal, then the common law and former
Acts armed the Government with sufficient power
against persons. So that it was not necessary to alter
the provisions of former Acts so far as related to per-
sons. The intention of this Bill was to prevent illegal
societies from being carried on and holding their meet-
ings privately. It was true that this Bill sanctioned to
some extent an invasion of what was considered the
pride and privilege of a British subject; but this was
unavoidable, and nothing short of the provisions of this
Bill would enable the Government of Ireland to prevent
the continuance of societies which had produced so
much misery.
The Earl of GLENGALL wished that a portion of
the Act of 1833 should be inserted in this Bill, which
would enable the Government to put down the associa-
tion at Burgh-quay. He had been looking over the Acts
2 and 3 Victoria, and 4 George IV., and it did not ap-
pear to him that this Bill would have the effect of put-
ting down clubs the members of which were not " bound
by oaths;" he did not know whether they were bound
by " other engagements." Perhaps the Noble and
Learned Lord (Lord Campbell) would afford their Lord-
ships some explanation upon this point.
Lord CAMPBELL said, the Noble Earl seemed to
have forgotten that there was such a thing as the com-
mon law. According to the common law of England and
Ireland, any meeting for treasonable or seditious pur-
poses was illegal, and all who attended such meetings
were punishable ; but what was wanted was evidence of
the fact, and this Bill gave power to a police officer to
enter such meeting, to search the house, and seize books
and papers, so as to ascertain what were the objects of
the society, and what the meeting was about.
Having discovered that, if the Noble Earl at the head of
the Irish Government arrested the guilty parties, he
(Lord Campbell) would indemnify him against the con-
sequences without a statute. The Noble Earl (Glen-
gall) seemed to think that nothing was illegal that wa
as
not forbidden by statute; but persons who assembled
treasonable or seditious meetings, though not bound by
an illegal oath, if the offence could be proved, were
amenable to the law.
Lord REDESDALE thought that there was a great
objection to an habitual succession of temporary mea-
sures for the Government of Ireland, and that there was
nothing in the 2d and 3d of Victoria which might not be
made permanent, after recent experience. However, at
that period of the session, he did not wish to raise
he any
difficulty in respect to the passing of this Bill,
but
suggested that it would be expedient to make the Bill
run for a longer period than two years.
The Bill was then read a second time and ordered to
be committed on Monday.
The Earl of GLENGALL observed, that the Nobble
Marquis (the Marquis of Lansdowne) bad lahid on t e.
table copies of the proclamations issued
with
t o appre
ro-
aces in Ireland. He found that one of those p .
hpreancsion of certain persons charged i treasonable
cAni mc
haat
ei ol ups 0
ho
effne3r,e, d
an d rheewsa
gave
he should put a question to the
heny, who had been previously
view of obtaining information wh
and sent to Nenagh Gael, from
out, was not required to app
his trial, no bill being sent upthat on Monday
ernment with the
rehension of
ayrrested for sedition
fonro
Gtitchea
"this Michael Do
ss hich he was bailed
ear at the assizes to stand
to the grartd jury against
Tho consequence of
his
this proceeding was that
him?sureties'
nor his recognzances were es-
neither
i
treated •
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE intimated that
the ability of the Government to give an answer to
the question on Monday must depend on information
on the subject being transmitted from Ireland by that
time.

PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, the reasons
Riven by the Commons for disagreeing with certain
amendments made by the
.Lords to the Public Health
Dill were ordered to be printed, The Bill WAS also or.

De pAt.-TeWlitittnet- ute twuze itf cunneetea--corm.
The Noble and Learned Lord then gave notice that he
should move on Tuesday that the reasons of the Com-
mons be taken into consideration.

The orders of the day on the paper were then dis•
posed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter past
Nine o'clock.

THE HUSBANDMAN OUGHT TO
BE STRONGER THAN THE FARM.
TO THE EDITOR OF TILE SUN.
Six,—My attention has been drawn to an advertise-
ment for letting two farms, which has appeared in the
public journals from Mr. Herbert Prickett, land and es-
tate agent, Chancery-lane, addressed to tenant farmers'
which fully bears out the heading of this article, and is
conformable to the system adopted by that celebrated
farmer Mr. Coke, the late Earl of Leicester. Mr
Pricket says—" Application to be made, in the first in-
stance, by letter from principals only, stating the system
of agriculture intended to be observed in the cultivation,
stocking, and management of the farm, and the amount
of capital per acre the applicant has at his command foe
that object. Now, when a tenant went to Holkham, to
ask for a farm of 1,000 acres, Mr. Coke's first question
was, how much capital he had without borrowing to
manage that quantity of land: if the tenant said 5,0001.,
" then (said the Earl) you shall have 500 instead of
1,000 acres; and as soon as you can raise 10,0001., or
10/. per acre, you shall have the 1,000 acres; for no man
ought to take a farm unless he has 101. per acre to feed
plenty of fine oxen and sheep by artificial means in the
winter season, and to eat his clover in the summer."
The Earl's lands being farmed upon the four-course
system, half the farm was always in clover and turnips ;
and upon a highly managed farm, where a great deal of
the corn grown upon it is converted into beef and mut-
ton, or oil cake bought to feed the cattle, &c., in lieu of
corn, any farmer may make his own guano upon the
farm, and thereby avoid adulteration in that article.
A person to keep his cattle and corn to the best
advantage, and to buy his cattle at the cheapest rate,
requires 101. per acre to start with, to " make the tenant
stronger than his farm ;" and this is the sort of tenant
Mr. Prickett seems justly to require for his employer.
He has evidently borrowed a leaf out of the Earl c
Leicester's book. The celebrated Mr. Bakewell, of
Dishley, the founder of the Leicester sheep, said in his
(lay, that half the land in England was not half farmed
from the want of the means to farm it, because there
was not half labour enough upon it ; and the beasts.
sheep, and horses bred upon it were of the worst kind,
because they cost the least in. "No man," said Mr. 8.,
"ought to breed inferior beasts, sheep, and horses, for
they eat as much as the best kinds." To farm land.
therefore, as it ought to be, arato stock it as it ought to
be with superior kinds of animals, requires a good
capital, or the tenant cannot farm it to the beat ad-
vantage.
There are many tenants now inquiring for farms who
have not above one-third sufficient property to farm
and stock them as they ought to be; an U such men aro a
nuisance upon any Lord's domain. I know a tenant now
who is looking out for a farm of 200 acres with a capital
only sufficient to manage 50 acres indifferently. Would
1 not such a tenant be a clog upon an estate? Lst noble-
' men's stewards guard against such men. In 20 years
fol'owing 1815, a Noble Lord not 100 miles from Oundle
sold three sets of tenants up in one village; the prin-
cipal part of them never had half capital and ingenuity
enough to manage the land. The Noble Lord was of
cure blamed by many people for siling his needy
tenants up, but the fault was not with him. These needy
tenants were let into their farms by the blindness of the
steward: he required a high rent; they took it, because
the rent was not an object to them; they only wanted
possession; and good tenants were rejected who did not
come up to his mark. It is true, the steward had his
remedy against the men of straw by a distress for rent;
he came in first, and swept all away—cattle, corn, goods,
&c.—and the butcher, grocer, draper, shoemaker, black-
smith, and others had only the body of the tenant to sa-
tisfy their claims!
I conceive any steward to act unjustly by taking such
tenants in preference to men of property who offer a
little less rent per acre. The covetous system of letting
lands to pretenders is the entire cause of so mush land
in England being in such a disgraceful and wretched
state. The aristocracy of England must muse them-
selves from their lethargy, and look a little more after
their own business and interest, or procure stewards
who will take better care of their estates, and weigh
their tenants before they enter. as the Earl of Leicester
did. If they adopted the policy of Mr. Prickett in let-
ting farms, a great part of England would be farmed and
stocked very differently to what it is now. Were noble-
men to remunerate and handsomely reward the diligent
and severely reprimand the slovenly and slothful
tenant, and take some of the land from the
weak and let it to the strong tenants, who have
money sufficient to manage it, a great service would be
rendered, not only to themselves as the owners of the
soil, but to the community at large, by employing the
agricultural labourers, instead of keeping them out of
the poor-rates in idleness. From the want of money
and labour, more than one-third of Great Britain and
Ireland is a wilderness.
It has been publely asserted, that the late Earl of
Leicester, before a tenant entered upon one of his farms,
insisted upon his paying 101. per acre into the hands of
the Earl's banker, to prove that he was worth the money
I,e stated himself to be possessed of. This, of course,
placed the Earl upon a very safe and sound footing, and
is the cause of the Noble Earl's estates being so ex-
ce:sively improved in value by the best of farming.
Banbury, August 4, 1848. SAMUEL ARNSBY.

TnE G FILM AN HOSPIT (L. DALSTON.—The an-
nual general meeting of the governors of the above
hospital was held yesterday ut the London Tavern,
Bishopsgate-street. His Royal Highness the Duke of
Cambridge was in the chair, supported by his Excel-
lency Count Kielmansegg,e, the Hanoverian Minister,
B. B. Cabbell, Esq., M.l'., and many other friends of
the institution. The report of the house committee,
read by 1)r. Sieveking, stated that the amount collected
at the anniversary dinner and the fancy fair proved how
high the institution stood in public favour. In conse-
quence of the resignation of Dr. Freund, arising out of
differences with the committee, a new directing phy-
sician had to be appointed, and the vacancy had been
filled by Dr. Swaine. Amongst the new subscribers to
the hospital were his Imperial highness the Grand
Duke Constantine, Prince Waldemar of Prussia, and the
Grand Duke of Nassau. The number of in-patients
during the year had been 467, and the out-patients
1,918, making a total of 2,385. The year's receipts
amounted to 4,100/. 14s. Id., and the expenditure 2,3721.
Is. 7d. On the motion of Mr. B. B. CslJilbell, M.P., se-
conded by Mr. Twining, the report wei adopted, after
which votes of thanks were passed to the several officers of
the institution for their past services, and those for the
ensuing year elected. The rules of the hospital were
then read through by Mr. Gaedechens, and some slight
alterations made. The business concluded with a vote
of thanks to his Royal Highness for presiding.
MURDER OF TWO CHILDREN.—ROMFORD, THURS..
DAY.—A dreadful case of double murder has occurred
at Thurrock, a village a few miles to the south of this
town, and has occasioned a painful degree of excite-
ment throughout this part of Essex. The perpetrator
of the crime is the wifo of a person named Grant, who
belongs to the better class of agricultural labourers.
Yesterday morning early, the husband being from home,
the wife, without any assignable cause, proceeded to
carry out the purpose which she appears to have deli-
berately planned, of murdering the whole of the chil-
dren. She left her bed, and armed herself with a
chopper, or hedge-bill, used by labourers for cutting
wood. With this she returned to the chamber, and
beginning with the youngest, a girl between two
and three years old, laid its neck across the edge
of the bedstead and chapped it till the head walk.
almost severed from the body. She then attacked the
next, a boy between four and five years of age, in the
same way, inflicting draidful gashes on the back of the
neck; but while she was thus engaged, the eldest boy,
about eight years of age, escaped from the house, and
informed the neighbours, a number of whom rushed to
the house, but too late to save either of the two children.
The mother was standing over them reeking with blood,
and still chopping at them with the bill. She was seized
and disarmed, and at orce declared she had murdered
the two children, and intended to have murdered the
third, if he had not escaped. The only reason she gives
for the horrid deed is, that the children were so unruly
she could do nothing with them. After she was taken
she betrayed some wildness of manner; but the neigh-
bours state that they never considered her of unsound
mind. She has been committed on the coroner's war-
rant to the Essex county gaol.
THE LONDON AND NORTII-WESTERN RAILWAY
AND THEIR ENGINE-DRIVERS.—OR Wednesday, the
authorities of the railway. with a view to insure
the safety of the public, issued the following instruc-
tions to the guards emplo) ed on the southern division
of the line :—" Owing to the appointment
toe
f
several new enginemen, perfectly competent
charge of engines, but unacquainted with this ]trains of
f th
on the southern division will, untilfurther ,
ine to assist the engine-
railway, the upper-guard of
.the passanofeerrsrie
on the foot-plate of the eng , k
to inform the driver as he app
roaches the new sal pop,
driver and fireman in keeping a 100 outh for thl• signals,
tions of the line, and where the regulations of the cern.
• ted with the cliff erent gradients as the engine
The guards are enjoined to be
phaimayareecgrhe the opening of the whistle, as also to make
enters upon them.
v‘atchful and attentive in the performance of this duty, and
under-guardherhe traiins is
toride
timed to
to. apprise the driver the instant the signals come into
sight, as also to acquaint him when within a mile of the
stations,s o P
rear
thereat
r hrand
t remind
ga and
take The
not.B ponthi appointed chargedh whether
of the parcels, &c.,
a theto to ride in the leading
van of each train, to assist at the stations in
giving down and taking up luggage ; as also to
keep a constant look out forward towards the en-
gine, and the instant
keeping satasnetpittinheg hisg
altogether.ua erdyeuponu p
To
n t thi e enginethe guard
upon
d when
e
apo
signals
th
with his band to have the break applied he is to do ao
t s
o immediately,lackenor
engine is on the instant he perceives the red signal to
signal the porter in the laading van with his hand to
apply the break, and by the motion of his hand let this
man know when to slacken or release the break alto-
gether."
e th
e
COURT
OF ALDERMEN.—After the Common 11111
was dissolved a Court of Aldermen was held, at which
the result of the shrievalty was declared. The City
Solicitor gave in the following certificate:—" I have to
certify, that in pursuance of the direction of the Court,
I made application to Mr. J. R. Mills for payment of 6001.
the amount of the fine imposed by the bye-law of the
Court for omitting to give bond to take upon himself
the office of sheriff, and in consequence of such applica-
tion 1 yesterday received the amount, which I shall pay
into the hands of the Chamberlain to the account of the
City's cash." The Court, After granting several free•
dews, adjourned,