The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-25 00:00:00

POOR REMOVAL BILL.

This Bill passed through ---Committee.
, POOR-LAW UNION CHARGES BILL.
On the motion of the Marquis [of LANSDOWNE,
this Bill was read a third time and passeed.
After a short conversation,
The other Bills on the table were forwarded a stage,
and their Lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock.
DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH ROME BILL.
On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill,
Sir J. TYRELL said he had been accused of being
an anonymous libeller of the Roman Catholics of Ire-
land. He denied that he was so. He, therefore,
wished to ask the Noble Lord whether he had any ob-
jection to procure' the name of the constable who posted
the Queen's proclamation on the church-door at Tern-
plemoyle.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that there would be no
dilDculty in obtaining the required information. The
Lord-Lieutenant, if requested by the Government,
would obtain information upon the whole of the circum-
stances.
Sir J. TYRELL said, so far from making statements
without authority and anonymously, he would next week,
if the House wished it, produce his informant at the bar
of the House.
Lord J. RUSSELL went on to say :that he did not
conceive the adoption of the course pointed out by the
Hon. Gentleman would be of any advantage. If he
would furnish the Government with all the information
of which he was possessed, he would remit it to the Lord-
Lieutenant.
Mr. SPOONER rose, he said, to oppose the further
progress of the Bill. He blamed the Government for
pressing it on when not more that 100 Members were in
town, and said, if it were passed, it would not have the
credit of having been passed by the House of Commons
in its collective capacity, but by a " tyrant majority."
He and others could not be blamed if they invoked all
the forms of the House to their aid for the very purpose
for which those very forms were made—namely, to con-1
fute measures which were, like this, of the most uncon-
stitutional and dangerous character—because the Bill
would directly interfere with the Bill of Rights and the
Act of Settlement. The Noble Lord had not made out
any urgent necessity for the passing of this measure. It
was generally believed that there was more behind the
scenes—that the Government •had for some time carried
on secret negotiations with the Pope, with a view to get his
consent to certain clauses, and that the negotiations having
failed the Noble Lord was obliged to proceed with the
measure without any aid from that Potentate. If he
was factiously opposing this measure, by availing him-
self of the forms of the House, he dared the Noble Lord
to alter them, and prevent his doing so. This Bill was
another blow against the Protestant religion, and
another step towards recognising the jurisdiction of the
Pope in this realm. The surest way to obtain the
blessing of the Almighty and secure the safety of the
Throne was by maintaining Protestantism in all its
integrity.
Liird J. RUSSELL said he had postponed proceed-
ing with the remaining clauses until to-day at the
wish of several Honourable Members. He did not
think it was consistent with the ancient usages of
the House to start another discussion after a Bill had
been read a second time and been in Committee.—
(Hear, hear.) The forms of the House admitted the
utmost liberty of speech, but if they were abused it
might become a matter for consideration whether it
would not be expedient to alter them.—(hear, hear.)
The divisions on the Bill had been three to one, and he
believed, notwithstanding SG many Hon. Members were
absent, that the same comparative numbers would be
found. The time of the House had been occupied by
discussions on other Bills: it could not, therefore, be pro-
ceeded with at an early period. The Bill simply sought
to establish diplomatic relations with the only Sovereign
of Europe with whom they had heretofore had no such
relations. He could not but think that the Bill had been
amply discussed—(Hear, hear)—and considered that the
prophetic warnings of the Hon. Gentleman were wholly
without foundation.
Sir J. TYRELL advised those who opposed the Bill
to withdraw their opposition, as it must be obvious to
thorn that it was altogether fruitless.—(Hear, hear.) He
should offer none.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE considered that the Bill would
be deeply offensive to the country. A strong feeling
prevailed against it. Those who opposed it had only
done their duty ;in awaking the people to the great
danger that was impending over them, and the proba-
bility, should the measure pass, of the destruction of the
establishment to which they were so much attached.
Sir R. H. INGLIS justified the invocation of all the
forms of the House against so dangerous a Bill as this.
After a few words from Mr. ANSTEY,
The House went into Committee.
Mr. ANSTEY proposed the omission of the word
" not " in the second line. The effect of the clause
would be. that it would be unlawful to receive a Jesuit
as an ambassador at the British Court.
The Earl of ARUNDEL then proposed' the omission
of the entire clause. In doing so he repudiated the
truth of the statement of the Honourable Ba—
ronet (Sir J. Tyrell), that he was in the habit of
reading a " disgusting and filthy book."—(Laughter.)
The hook in question was entitled the " Garden of the
Soul," and contained a series of questions for the ex-
amination of the conscience. The questions, though of
the most moral nature, were not such as should be read
in an assembly like this. He should, however, have no
objections to repeat the questions to the lion. Baronet,
leaving him to give the answers.—(Laughter.) Passages
of a similar character were to be found in the Bible.
They should either enter into negotiations with the
Court of Rome, or they should not—there should be
no mediuin—the relations should be on equal terms.
Lord PALMERSTON defended the clause, which,
be said, was inserted by the other House. It could not
have a prejudicial effect upon the powers at Rome.
The House should recollect that the Government of
Rome was now a constitutional and secular, or lay
Government—(Hear, hear) and that, consequently,
the objections of many Honourable Members to the Bill
fell to the ground.—(Hear, hear.) They had Ministers
in Switzerland, Tuscany, and Greece, without having
any representatives of either of those nations here, and
the time was not far distant when they had a repre-
sentative at Constantinople without having any Turkish
Ambassador here. Great good had resulted from having
Ministers at these places, and it was but reasonable to
suppose that similar good would accrue from sending an
Ambassador to Rome. He should, on these grounds,
oppose the amendment.

Sir J. TYRELL produced a copy of the " Garden of
the Soul," and was about to read some passages, but the
House called out " No, no." He said he would give
way if it was the wish of the House. It was right, per-
haps, that he should not read them, since they were of
the most objectionable nature. He merely wished to
state that he was ready to accept the challenge of the
Noble Lord. Was he to accept it or not ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said the work had relation to
matters of faith which were entertained by many Hon.
2.lembers, and had nothing to do with the subject before
the House.—(Hear. hear.)

Mr. DRU2aMOND opposed the clause, on the ground
,hat it was an insult to the Catholics, and that it would

militate against the working of the Bill.
Colonel THOMPSON thought it Would be well to ac-
cept the Bill as it stood, even with this objectionable
clause, as they could not obtain it without it.
After a short discussion, in which Mr. Blackstone,
Mr. Goring, Mr, Newdegate, Mr. Sheil, Mr. Keogh,
Mr. P. Howard, and other Members took part,
Lord J. RUSSELL trusted that the Hon. Member for
Youghal would withdraw his amendment, and take
the sense of the House on the amendment proposed by
the Noble Lord, the Member for Arundel (Lerd
Arundel and Sorry). If the amendment of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman were adopted, no person except
an ecclesiastic; could be sent to this country as the am-
btcsador from Rome.
Mr. C. ANSTEY felt bound to divide the House
upon his amendment.

A further lengthened discussion then took place, in
which Mr. Heald, Mr. -Urquhart, and several other
Hon. Members took part.
Mr. C. ANSTEY withdrew his amendment, and then
Proposed to exempt from the operation of the clause
envoys sent on special missions, so that it might be com-
petent to the Pope to send ecclesiastics on special mis-
sions.

Lord JOHN. RUSSELL thought it would be better
to adopt the clause as sent from the House of Lords
than to adopt the proposition of the Honourable and
Learned Member.
toMr. ANSTEY said he would not press the amendment
a division.
strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and 'the