The Sun.
London, England, 1848-06-21 00:00:00

There was in these days a great deal of talk about the rights
and the duties of property. He said it was the duty of every
man to maintain! himself in the position in which he was
placed. The man of property ought to defend his poi-
tion.—(Laughter.) Hon. Members were perhaps not aware
that the most popular works issued in England within the
last twelve months—he did not mean the writings of Louis
Blanc, but English works—works promulgating opinions
which w ere widely entertained by the most intelligent of the
working men —laid down the proposition that all property
was a public robbery.--(0h, oh, and No, no.) He did not
remember the exact words, nor did he expect that he shoolt
have been called upon to prove his position, but he enuldi
d
refer them to a work in French.—(lronical cheers an
laughter.) He understood the cheers, but he asserted tbatd
the same principle was contained in English works;
,!,I,3_ue
here also it was held that property was a public robber. 't
Hon. Gentleman, after adverting to several objections, the!!
opposed the extension of reform, on the ground that it would
cause a number of Members to be sent into the House who',
instead of taking a rational and comprehensive view of
affairs, would be absorbed by petty local matters, and ruA
down the taxation at the expense of the character an,'
greatness of the country. He repeated that the whetile
object of the movement was to divide the property of t
country. The ideas of advantage from the practice of
' these political theories were mere delusions. No House °L
Commons—no Legislature—do what it might, could Pre;
d
vent distress among the people; and to tell them that
Legislation had any power to relieve them was a gross e'
lusioa. It was a delusion to tell the people that anything
but money was the lot of the great mass of mankind.--(
oh.) There was .at present running through the whole
Europe a strong desire for a total 'regeneration of societY.'
He would say in conclusion, you shall have that regeneration,
but you must first pass through a baptism of blood—as the):
are now doing in France—and you never shall have regsuers
tion until He comes who is alone able to give it.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I rise thus early to address the Bose
because I think it is entitled to an explanation from we
the views I entertain, not only regarding this motion, hit
other propositions to which it is nearly akin, and
which,
after the speech of the Hon. Member for Montrose, I COn'
jecture are like to follow it (as we understood). But alloW
me to allude to the petitions which have been presented to.
this House, and to what the Hon. Member for Montrose called
the expression of a general opinion on the subject. Urbo
that I have to say that it does not appear that, except for tot
provisions called the People's Charter, there was any 1(48
numerously signed petition presented to this House in s"A
early part of the session. Regarding those since present"
and regarding those meetings which have been held to St'
port th motion of the Hon. Member for Montrose, there Pisi,
two remarkable circumstances—one is, that consiclerte
pains were taken to misrepresent a speech which I made 5?7
weeks ago—( Hear)—when notice of that motion was pti.
poned by the Hon. Member, to the effect that I decin
therein that the people wished for no reform. I have seen '
done with such care that in placards all the words whichr
plied my belief that there ought to be reform were caret
expunged, and in some cases directly the reverse stst
The words I used were—" My belief is that the middle .a,
working classes desire that there should be a gradual Pr;
gress of reform; that this House should give its attention,.,
the question before it, and that on peace and tranquility,
pend their interests.—(Cries of "Read on.") Of course ru
not deny that which has been stated over and over ages
that I expressed my belief that the country, nal:Bell, ies
middle and working classes, were not in favour of the reoPA
Charter, or the plan of the Hon. Member for Montrose;
that declaration has been used as if it were a declarstt;
against all reform; whereas I went on to say, after bacil
excluded these specific measures, that the peopled es.rirT,,,,
gradual progress in reform, and in using that term I
eluded no species of reform, neither parliamentary nor fis:l;
nor any other kind of reform which it might be usefu&
adopt. But so great has been the misunderstanding;
misconstruction of what I said, that at the MarYlleb„.oo,
meeting the Hon. Member for Montrose moved a resout.og
which began thus :—" That the Prime Minister, helices
stated his opinion that the people require no extensive lued,,,
sures of political and fiscal reform, it is hereby real:3'lA
and so on. The Hon. Gentleman having heard what I .0
and accurately knowing what I said, really should bin'to
taken more pains. When that resolution was Put co,
his hand, he should have said, '° This is a resolution
nns.
trary to the fact ; I know it to be so—(Hear)--it is her-
sible
M for me to move it as it stands." ith the
r. HUME.—I can only say, it is consistent W"
fact, to my knowled.—(Order order.) We°
Lord J. RUSSELgeL.—Now there is another circututno.
which has attended many of these meetings for Itetvivi:
They have been meetings convened and assembled 11.01
view of proposing and supporting the four points con" pied'
in this resolution which the Hon. Gentleman haslll-tina
to-day, and to which he has now added a fifth, itt
with the view of sending petition to this House
support of this resolution. But when the matter 57;51
to a discussion it has repeatedly happened either that
some Shartist has risen and moved an amendment' get
every person of tull age and unconvicted of any crime), et
to have a vote, and that that resolution has been carnet
else that, such a resolution being proposed, such a dicl,olll
in the meeting took place that the reporters, who gen"state
attend accurately to these matters, have been unable told to
the result of the meeting. I say, therefore, with regs
this movement, that, in the first place, it has been in!.ltter
degree founded upon misrepresentation of what I saiul„stto
place in Parliament ; and, in the next place, that it 0100.
be considered at all as a movement in support of the
Getleman the Member for Montrose—whether we tithe, "to her
or Birmingham, or Merylebone, as I think, or severs, loot
of the great cities. It is to be regarded rather as a tweVechsr•
in which there was a division of opinion, in which the d the
tists very often had the majority ; and where they °blot°
majority the meetings cannot be considered as favours able
the plan of the Honourable Gentleman. The 110_,„„nii by
Gentleman, to my great satisfaction, be gan his sP7), sottr
declaring that the plan of reform which I had the:, pd''.
to propose in 1831, and which was carried into effect ",j.vitig
liament in 1832, had been mainly instrumental in prreacsept
the peace of the country during the present year.
that testimony as a testimony that the plan of reintaity,
been useful in averting discontent, preserving Visa beer.)
and in bringing about other useful measures.—(Heat' the
The Hon. Gentleman, indeed, afterwards said, that clot
people. according to their present rights of electienlsed LO
those who would fitly represent them, if they At.sans w
their own interests as they ought, they had the "is of the
carrying into effect measures conducive to the intetesnause as
community. If that be so, it must make the House dorm t°
to the necessity for any Government measure of re goose•
enable the people to find a fair representation in thiSit is only
Bcause, by the Hon. Gentleman's own statement, resen
from their mistake of their true interests that the4ve
the
House does not fairly represent them, and that they il__ented.
opportunity at a general election of being fairly reperufaideno
The electors, indeed, might reply to the Hon. :t in the,
that they had the power, but did not choose to user',rios
manner he recommended, for that they had a
their true interests than he himself had—Weart h thinking
that they had chosen their present represents
ti their 00
that their views were the sound views accordinghich the Hon'
notions of public policy, and not, the views which
v contend
for
Gentleman entertained. For, although he rna, dc whatever
any particalar right of suffrage, he cannot conten his
right he may establish, that the people are to a.a Pt
°the rero-
notions, and that they are not fairly represented if
_oions....
betteeso_sod
sentatives do not coincide with his views and °ln -a -OA
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman began by a decll7...ny
that every man who was a contributor to the taxesvent
way should have a share in the representation, and that rhol
man of full age who contributed in any way to the taxesti
positively a right to vote. Why, Sir, it this propor;ps
were true there would be an end of all dispute about '„is
matter—an end of the Hon. Gentleman's propositions' ,d
limitations, his restrictions, his qualifications—and we shoji_
have nothing to do but pass an Act of Parliament aloa,
ledging that right, and admitting all to vote. But the ..0
Gentleman in his plan does not carry his Preposition 114
effect.—( Hear.) His remedy is to extend the franchise se;
to include " all householders," the word " all" having bet°
left out by mistake; and from his explanation he apPee,„rs, 0
intend the word " householders" to include persons nav"'"ot,
fixed residence, and who may be lodgers in the
as I understand, who must claim to be rated, and else-S be
actually rated, and placed on the the °
ate-book for..ioo,
the poor. There is a restriction, a qualification, a copal., 0,
which, if the Hon. Gentleman is right in his former pr,eoP:sr,
thin, you have not the smallest title to imPose•tl of
hear.) Here is a man of full age, belonging to the paris,..,,
house, b
Westminster; he claims his right to vote. Are yon t° Ted•
that he not registered, and his name is not on ther, he
book, and therefore he cannot be admitted ? " Wh3
says, " I have an indefeasible, a constitutional right,
to
being a man 21 years of age; and it is impossible for r'yote
deny that right, or set aside or evade my claim t 10,
by any pretence of your qualifications about rate-tn.e..,
and registration, and conditions of lodging, and so tbrficatiel
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman by that quatiiile 00.
destroys his own proposition. I will confess that the
Gentleman quoted some sentences of mine in bringlufnehat
Reform Bill in 1831, which, I must admit, Were B,:d as thB
loosely quoted. They could not have been apPh oat oil
foundation of the measure I proposed ; but at least I rr_c any
to state exactly what the measure was. 1 did not logo'
doubt about it, and every one can judge what the Bobo
was which I wished to see Parliament adopt. . it is
Gentleman's proposition is of a very different naturrejori
of a very vague and indefinite character.—(Hear' sat
When the Hon. Gentleman says that all house
us, do Dot
lodgers who claim to be rated are to vote, I really his • fog
understand how large a part of the working classe fool
include. Many sons living with their fathers, o',Le coo:
part of a family, might or might not form part
koter'n'are sa
atituent body under this proposition. He says tu sod ,
millions of persons of full age who ought to vote,e repro_
only one million or less are included in the pro!.%
sentation. But I should imagine, if
carried out, and every man had a righthis tPor°P;ellere lrittWiltr
being registered and rated, you would find still
three millions at least excluded from the right
who would not come under the definition the rLertion'
Gentleman has made. What, then, becomes of his, 7/01
that you have disqualified those who have the right,_"castoo_
and that it is beyond the power of Parliament WI di
those who have that constitutional right ?—(Hear'loo of 111
entirely from the Hon. Gentleman as to the foundation the
proposed representation. In my opinion, that.oT,,,n, p.!
' people have the right to, not only every man of f 111;ssibi,e0
the whole population of this kingdom, is the hee'hfch it
government and the best kind of representation w",nd if is
possible for the Legislature to give.—(Hear, hear.) f: Legit
should be that universal suffrage would give the berdo oos
lature, the best laws, and the best government, ~1 emit?:
see that this House would be justified in refusing the
But if this would not give so good a government 21;01100
ferent form of voting, then it was mere pedantry and a; for
philosophy to say that every man ought to have A vrof 00r
the main object of representation, as the main object
of the
institutions, being good government and the welfare
_.OOO
people, you ought not, for the sake of some abstract or,ht
about the means, to lose sht of the very object you °Mt?
,cad 09'
to keep in view.—(Hear, bear.) We have a nu- of thss
tution—the Crown and the House of Lords are a part
_et
constitution • they are not evils to be endured, but PoPithe
the benefit Of the institutions which we enjoy. On_.piaitft
greatest and one of the most profound writers of
not
in•writhog words subject of government, said, nm t ?fa to
exactly in but in sentiment, what I a_
roirhy,
quote—" Every government is formed, either otf_ormu_7o butl
of aristocracy, or of democracy. A governn.sen
combined out of the three may be
ifeasitilsyhailtni abgeiburoeau,ghtitoo
cannot be easily brought to pass; or,
great and profound historian—a sentimentn
modern thnea,t
pass it cannot be durable." Such was the sentiment an
001
Justified by all the experience of the world
most fortiiol„so
with the exception of one, and I should say
had these elements combined which Tacitus said
d mocracy:
country. It has so happened that in this cao.dunctoryuidsrhearwbu_sTfi
be combined—of monarchy, aristocracy, and
,e_
Sir,it h als
confesshappened
tthat,
that
seeingthat constitution t it
difficultution
be
st e
De a ttnlig
that judgment, and which I believe to very
of on" ie
how difficult it is to maintain that speciesof peop 0
beaeen,ordidtioreb:to:
judgment, with the exception which we have seen--see:iis
tution which has provided for the happiness tee
had much t
in this country—l have always felt,
do since the year
reform, how
and with assisting other measures of ~n vial
1819 with proposing
the
and nice a matter it was to alter
co
adjustment of the different powers of the foot
remember, on the night before I wars about to P
having
gures of
creriforiruloni