The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-20 00:00:00

(Hear, hear.) He had witnessed the bad effects
of corporal punishment in the navy, and he
was rejoiced to find that its cruelties and
absurdities were being exposed to the public. The lash
c buld only be defended upon the ground that it . egraded
the victim, for it could not be defended on the ground of
its inflicting severe physical pain, because that argument
was brutal, not to say disgraceful, to human nature.
Well, then, did the lash degrade its victim in the eyes of
his comrades ? No, it did not ;it only excited the sym-
pathies of all who witnessed the punishment, and this
was manifest from the instance of it they had seen in
the case of Mathewson.—(Hear, hear.) Was he de-
graded ? Would the 7th hussars say he was degraded
on hearing the tribute of respect which had been psid to
him by A humane and Liberal Member of the British
Senate ?—(llear, hear.) He would pledge himself f
the statement that men could be disciplined just as well,
nay better, without than with the power of inflicting cor-
poral punishment.—(Hear, hear.) Why, look at
Napoleon ?—(Cheers.) How was it that he endeared
his men to himself ? Was it by the lash ?
No ; it was by kindly acts, of no great mag-
nitude in themselves ; and why should not
the same system prove as effective in England as in
France?—(Hear, hear.) Moral influence was the pro-
per means by which to secure discipline, and when that
influence was resorted to the army and navy would be-
come greater ornaments to the nation than even they
were at present.—(Hear, hear.) The truth was, the
regulations of both the army and navy ought to be re-
organised, and the power of the Admiralty, as well as
of the Commander-in-Chief, rendered more in confor-
mity with the spirit of the times, and placed more
within the censure, control, or supervision of the- public
—(Hear, hear.) Why, look how Sir Sidney Smith,
Lord Codrington, and Lord Nelson—names which the
B. itish nation would never forget—had commanded
their men without resorting to corporal punishment,
and why was it this policy should not succeed as a
general rule?—(Hear, hear.) For his own part,
he would have the whole regulations of the army and
navy reformed— the pay of the men increased— the pre-
sent mode of enlistment aboli,.h, d--the men allowed to
retire after a certain number of years' service, and to vote
for members of the Legislature; and, above all, the pri-
vilege of having their grievances tried and adjudicated
upon by a jury of officers and men in the same way that
civilians are tried. —(Cheers.)
The Rev. J. NICHOLSON, who headed a deputation, was
glad to have an opportunity of addressing the meeting,
although at the time it wr s open- d he was miles away ;
and, he might say, without any in:ention of indulging in
the metaphor, he had come there at a railroad pace to
denounce a system which was opposed to Christianity,
and to the word of that great and good Being whose attri-
bute was mercy. He reminded the meeting, that on the
very day the Prime Minister was stating to the
House of Commons the change he proposed to make in
the system, V,e inhabitants of Hounslow were assembled
in public meeting, for the purpose of petitioning the
Legislature to abolish the lash ; and when they heard
what the plan was, they met again and formed a local
Committee, to remain in existence till the voice of the
people prevailed, and the system was altogether
wiped away from the British statute-book.—(Hear.)
He was there in the double capacity of being an advocate
for the abolition of a detestable system, and the head of
a deputation from the inhabitants of Hounslow, sent
there publicly to thank their noble, honourable, and
respected Chairman, in their name, for his independent
and unflinching conduct while sitting on a recent inquest
as Coroner fur Middlesex. Now, with regard to the
question of flogging, what was it that gave rime to it?
Officers in the army attributed it to drunkenness, but
what caused that drunkenness but canteen system.
which they themselves had established.—(llear, hear.)
Let them do away with that system, and adopt a moral
and instructive plan, and there would be less of drunken-
ness, and no necessity at all for resorting to the brutal-
ising:, detestable, and inhuman cat-o'-nine-tails.
Mr. LUKE HANSARD rejoiced to find that they were
going to establish an institution for procuring the aboli-
tion of the practice of corporal punishment in the army
and wavy, and he assured the meeting that he perfectly
concurred in the spirit of the resolutions which had been
read to them, namely, that the common soldier should
be treated as a fellow-being and a citizen rather than a
brute devoid of all human sensations and feelings.
Mr. EDWARDS, a naval officer, said it was not his in-
tention to trouble the meeting with a long speech, because
they had met together more for the purpose of doing busi-
ness than talking. He accordingly produced a cat-
o'-nine-tails commonly used in the navy,which, as might
be expected, caused a considerable sensation; and reed a
return of the number of persons flogged in the army and
navy clueing the last few years, which tended but little
to subdue the sensation which had previously been
excite d.

042P3itt-b
4,litflon

and courtesy which the Noble Chairman had exhibited in con-
ducting that inquiry.
Mr. WAKLEY said that no chairnian could have shown
more ability, tact, and judgment, than the Noble Lord did on
that occasion. It was but an aet of justice to the Noble Lord
to make this declaration of his impartiality.
ETWALL concurred in the encomiums passed upcn the
Noble Chairman.

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

(THIS DAY.)

After some observation from Mr. CHRISTIE and other
Hon. Members, to the same effect, . . _

HOUSE OF LORDS.
Room A.

Lord COURTENAY acknowledged the complimentary
terms in which he was referred to, and observed that, in the
delicate inquiry over which he had presided, he had acted to the
best of his ability.
Mr. BORTH WICK hoped the report would be printed be-
fore Monday next, so that they might have it before the Hon.
Member for Montro'e brought on his motion in reference to
she Poor-law Commissioners.

MANCHESTER AND SOUTHAMPTON,

The Committee met this morning at eleven o'clock; Lord
Monteagle in the chair.
The cross-examination of Mr. Bidder was proceeded with
by Mr. TALBOT—He detailed the position of the line with
respect to the vrrious landowners on its route. No land
would be interfered with except where absolutely necessary.
If they interfered with any portion of the property of Mr.
Hodpon, they were willing to purchase the whole of it.
They ran through the property of Lord Aylesbury for four-
teen miles; nevertheless, his Lordship was in favour of the
line. The South-Western opposeed them in the House of
Commons, and also presented a petition against them in the
Standing Orders Committee of their Lordships's House, but
they had adjusted their difference, and were now in
harmony, as that portion of the line between
Andover and Southampton was lately conceded to that
Company, on their paying the original cost, together
•vith the purchase of the Andover Canal. The estimate was

1,580,000%., the company taking poser to borrow one-third
of the capital. Tile line from Andover to Southampton, he
anticipated, could be opened in twelve months from the
passing of the Bill. The cost would be 300,0001., but not
more then 200,0001. would be required by that time. The
expense would be reduced, becau.,e two miles and a half of
the Dorchester line would be used. The entire tunnelling
would be four miles. One hundred thousand pounds would
cover the expense of the principal stations; the second-class
stations had not been determined upon. Temporary stations
would be erected at various parts of the line for the accom-
modation of agriculrural produce.
The witne;s was re-examined by Mr. Sergt. WAANGIIAM.
Mr. R. Stepenson, C.E., joint engineer of the line with
Mr. Bidder, was next examined—He generally concurred in
his evidence, and considered that 18,000/. a mile was a
moderate rate, and that the line could be con4ructed at that
rate.

Mr. Hawkshaw, C.E., follcwed, and concurred in the
evidence.

Mr. Wiley, land valuer, said, the land of the line would
cost 198,841/., and was taken at the rate of 235/. per acre.
Mr. Taplin produced a table of the receipts cf various Rail-
ways, taken at various periods; and Mr. Goldsmici handed
in a list of the assents ad dissents.

This dosed the case on the part of the promoters.
Mr. TALBOT, Q C., then at great length addressed the
Committee on behalf of the Great Western and against the
line, and contended that the necessary communication be-
tween the north and the south would be opened up by the
Oxford and Rugby via Basingstoke, and which the pro-
prietors of the Great Western were willing to lay down the
narrow in connexion with the broad gauge, and by the
Wilts, Somerset, and Weymouth, rid Bristol. That these
lines would accommodate large and populous towns, which
the Manchester and Southampton would not, everything
having been sacrificed in order to make it direct, and
trusted that their Lordships would in this case as in others
counteract the rash and impolitic decision of the House
of Commons. There could be no question that ere long
there would be no break of gauge between Southamp-
ton and the north. Surely their Lordships would
not sanction this line, when the earth of the line which they
had sanctioned last session for a similar object bad not yet
been raised. Goods from the north could be brought cheaper
by the lines in connexion with the Great Western to Basing-
stoke, where they would meet the trains of the South-
Western, and be conveyed by them to Manchester, much
cheaper than they could be conveyed by a new line. After
referring to the calls of the company, who stated they
would not call n.ore than 21. per share up to 1848, and not
' more than 41. yearly afterwards, and contending that after
paying their railway expenses, which must be considerable,
and compensating landowners, which would leave them little
or nothing to construct the line, he, at four o'clock, sought
the permission of the Committee to resume his address to-
morrow.
The Committee then adjourned.

all PERU L PARLIAMENT,

( IS DAY.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
Messengers .from the House of Commons brought up
several Bills.

DEATHS BY ACCIDENTS COMPENSATION BILL.
Lord CAMPBELL gave notice, that to-morrow he should
call the attention of their Lordships to the amendmeats which
the House of Commons had introduced into this rill.

ABOLITION OF EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS OF TRADING
BILL (IRELAND).
Their Lordships went into Committee on this Bill, on the
motion of Lord CAMPBELL.

Mr. CURTEIS, M.P., said he had tome to town solely
for the purpose of attending that meeting—not so much
to speak as to watch the progress of public opinion
upon this subject.—(Hear, hear.) He bad always been
opposed to the system of ft.gging, and he was glad to
find that the public voice had been raised against it in
such a manner as to bid fair shortly to produce th,.
downfall of this abominable system.—(Hear, hear. He
was glad to hear that the Duke of Wellington had x-
pressed a hope that he miOit live to see flogging abo-
lished, because the Duke being upwards of seventy
years of age, it was hardly possible that he could
survive many years longer, and they had
good reason to expect that the downfall of the system
was near at hand.—(Hear, hear.) He did not quarrel
with the officers who administered the law, hut with the
system itself; and though he was a radical economist,
he was quite prepared to vote for any additional ex-
pense which might attend upon the substitution of a
moral foe the present disgraceful system.—(Hear, hear.)
Now, with regard to the lion. Gentleman who occu-
pied the chair, he thought the country owed a deep
debt of gratitude for his manly and independent conduct
while presiding over the late inquest. While he was
upon this point, he thought their thanks were also due
to the jury, and he must say it was unworthy in any
Peer to attack the verdict of that jury solemnly come to
upon_ oath.—(Cheers.)
Mr. VINCENT regretted that the merits of the military
system had been introduced upon that occasion, because
he had met there solely for the purpose of protesting
against a horrible system, and forming a society to
procure its abolition.—(Hear, hear.) He deeply
sympathised with that object, and, although a-
a member of the Peace Society, he was opposed to arms
altogether, yet if the nation would have soldiers, in the
name of common humanity, let them be treated as men
and not as beasts.—(Cheers.) The system was sup-
ported on the ground of its moral influence. Why, good
God, what nonsense that was, when was a man ever
flogged into morals or morals into him?—(Cheers.) No,
so sanguinary a system could not be justified by any
plea, and he, therefore, blushed to see the names of Mr.
Macaulay, Mr. Ward, and Mr. B. Hawes, who had aided
many a good cause, amongst the membcrs who voted
against a motion which ti as calculated to throw some
light upon this subject.—(Hear, hear.) If the system
was to be defended, let it 13, left to officers in the army
and the Duke of Wellington, and not the friends of

The Bill then went through Committee, and the report was
brought up The third reading ordered for to morrow.

WASTE LANDS AUSTRALIA BILL.- LORD G.
BENTINCK. .

Lord LYND3URST begged to call the attention to cer-
tain statements which had appeared in the morning papers
yesterday, and which had reference to a Noble Friend
of his who was now on duty in a distant part
of the country, and he deeply regretted that their Lordships
not sitting yesterday prevented his making this statement
earlier. He would not allude to the coarsness of language
which had fallen from the Noble Lord by whofn this change
had been made, but he was particularly anxious on account of
the position hich he lately held in the Ministry. With
respect to this statement, he had to say that it was particularly
unfortunate that this explanation had not been made earlier,
for it was almost impossible to meet it by reason and
argument. In the early part of the year he had been applied
to to fill the office of a chief justice in India by his Noble Friend
at the head of the Board of Control. In consequence of that
application he had named six or seven persons, among whom
was Mr. David Pollock. Ali who know that
gentleman knew how well he was fitted to fill
the situation. His connexion with the Chief Baron of the
Exchequer had in no way affected the case. A vacancy
had been created to give the opportunity of filling it. Three
or four years ago, he (Lord Lyndhurst) had are tainted Mr.
Phillips a Commissioner for the Court of Bankruptcy. From
domestic circumstances the office had become immediately dis-
tasteful to him. His wife and family had seaparated from
him and was now living apart from him at Cheltenham.
Mr. Phillips bad been suggested to him as a proper
person to fill the office of Chief Justice of Madras,
but Mr. Poilock seemed to him the more proper person,
and his appointment was sanctioned by the Queen on
the 10th June. Mr. Phillips' office had been vacated, and he
was promoted to the office left by Mr. Pollock. No one coutd
doubt the ability of the gentleman to fulfil the duties of the
office. He had appointed his secretary, Mr. Perry, to execute
the duties of the office which Mr. Phillips has left, and with
reference to the appointment of that gentleman, and the obser-
vations of the Noble Lord to whom he had alluded respecting
it. He would say that had he not appointed Mr. Perry, he
would have been guilty not only of the grosset forgetfulness, but
of the grossest injustice in overlooking the merits of a person
who had served him with the utmost fidelity and intelligence,
anti that he should have been guilty not only of the grossest
forgetfulness, but of the grossest injustice, in overlooking the
merits of a gentleman who had recommended himself to many
of their Lodrships, to whom Mr. Perry had recommended him-
self by those abilities which had always been serviceable to the
State, and particularly useful to himself. With respect to the
Noble Lord who had made thoe remarks in another place
he might refer to some observations in a speech of Pitt upon
Napoleon. upon whom that Minister had remarked that there
was nothing too great for his ambition, nor too mean or toe
small for his rapacity. The Noble Lead had abandoned the
statement he had made in reference to the presentation to
Nocton, but he did so on wrong grounds, fur he (the Lord
Chancellor) did present to the living in Nocton, and that pre-
sentation had no connexion whateve. with the judicial appoint-
ment of Mr. David Pollock, as he had nothing what-
ever to do, directly or indirectly, further than he had
stated. The charges, therefore, of that man were
on light ground, and his retractations were made with
the same lenity. The Noble Lord then proceeded to describe
the circumstances under which the presentation to Nocton
was made. and read letters, one from the Earl of Ripon and
from Lady Ripon, soliciting the appointment for the Rev.
Mr. Wilson. who was then in the possession of a living of the
same value as that of Noctor under the Bishop of Bath and Wells.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

moral and intellectual improvement.—(Hear. hear.)
Dior was it a question of how many lashes sh,uld be
given, because one lash pro limed just as much of moral
,legradation as five huudred.—(Cneers.) It was
a question of whether thc child of God
should be tied up like a dog and lacerated more savagely
than they would fl tg a horse —(Cheers.) No, the
nation would not suffer it, and he felt confident that a
moral combination amongst the people would bear dot
this, us it had often before borne down other evils.
Mr. CLEAVE, the neW3Vendor, and late naval ,fficer,
strongly urged upon the meeting the necessity of looking
up and pr. ssing their representatives in Parliament
upon this subject, and getting a pledge from them to
vote against flogging.—(Hear, hear.) Th., iron Duke
had to be consulted upon this matter, and let them re-
member that the people had gained many a bloodless
victory over that nobleman by the means he had men-
tioned, and they could do it again, by forming a moral
combination against this terrible flogging system.
The resolutions were then put, and carried unani-
mously.
Mr. WRIGHT, of America, then moved—

' That a society be now forcned, to be ca'led Th
Flogging Abolition Society,' and that a committee, c,,n
siiting of the following gentlemen, with power to add t.
their number, be appointed to carry its objects int(
effect :

J. Brotherton, EF.q., M.P. John Hastings, Esq , M.D.
J. W. Boyes. E,41. John Mcredith, &q.
The Rev. J. T. Cuff M ..k. %V. B. S. Taylor, A
T. S. Duncombe, Esq., M.P. George Thompson, Esq.
John Drakard, Esq. Wm. 'Williams, E,q., M.P.
Wm. Ewart, Esq., M P.
" That Mr. Henry May, and Mr. Thomas Plume, be
the secretaries ; that a subscription be now entered
into to promote the objects of the society ; and that
donations and sub,criptions will be received by the
members of the n,mmittee, the secretaries, anti the 101
lowing bankers :—.Mesrs. S!ruhan, P.od, and Co.. 217,
Strand : and 111,ssr.. Giyn, Halifax, and Co., Lombard-
street."

The resolution was seconded by Mr. G. Titomes.,N,
and carried unanimously.
The meeting was subsequently addressed by Mr.
THOMAS Mounts. author of `• Recaections of Mtlitars
Service•, in Germany, Holland, and Frince, in 1813.
1814, and 1815 ;"and several other gentlemen connected
with the army and navy.
Thanks were then voted to the Chairman, both for
his conduct as coroner, as well as in the chair, and the
meeting broke up at half-past ten o'clock.

The Society for Improving the Condi'ion of the
Labouring Classes, with which the Labourers' Friend Society
now united, has just received the munificent legacy of one
th,,u,and pound, bequeathed to it in the will of the late
James Tomlin, Esq., of West Milling, Kent.
Mr. Ne.vman is about to pay a long visit to Rome,
with the view of completing his preparation for the priest-
hood.

LADY MORGAN'S " WILD IRISH GIRL."—A new edi-
tion of this celebrated romance, has just been published, com-
plete for 63., with a new preface and notes, forming a volume
of “Colburn's Standard Novels." "We are not among those"
(slvs the Examiner), "if any were, wit) had forc,otten 'The
Wild Irish Girl,' but we are not the less gratified at her pre.
sent re-appearance. ' The Wild Irish Girl' was the first
product of a genius regulated by discretion of the soundest
kind, and aiming at some of the noblest objects of intellectual
ambition, the advancement cf the cause of freedom, and the
general elevation of the buinan species. We have here the
first of a lung and brilliant series of services rendered to Ire-
land through the attractive instrumentality of romance. In
the spirited and sparkling pref t. this re-publication, we
have ample proof that ,hr phil,,phy of the author has not
en erva:ed her We rec ,gni,e the same true-
heirted atidco trAgeous Iridi WOlll4ll, composing her enthu-
siastic story in the Lieutenancy of the Duke of Bedtiird, and
re-editing opportmody, after trimly dax sof various fortune,
on the au,picious advent to power of ate titer Whig Viceroy."
Divatelies were s •nt off yeste.ti.iy ,vening from the Co-
lonial-office for the Governors of Hong- Kong and Ceylon.
Captain Elliot h..d an interview y esterday with the Earl of
Clarendon at the Licari Tradz,

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, AUGUST 2O, 1846.

the selection of judges from one branch of the legal profession
only. In principle it was most unjust to restrict the selection
to barristers only, as he believed the solicitors and attorneys of
the country were quite as able, as members of the bar,
to fulfil the duties, and their characters, he was sure,
stood quite as high. Why not leave it to the Lord Chan-
cellor to to take the jueLe3 from whatever branch of the legal
profession he thought best ? Believing the clause, as it stood,
to be unwise and unjust, he would move, as an amendment,
words to admit or the selection of attorneys as well as barristers
to officiate as judges in these courts.
Captain PECHELL said it was intimated to be the intention
of the Government officers under which the Bill had been
drawn up, to continue the services of the revising barristers,
and other similar judges, who had been appointed by the Lord
Chancellor as judges under this Bill. If so, then there would
not be so much objection to the clause as it stood. But the
point shouid be clearly stated, in order that he might kri:m
bow to act.

Lord Ili dANVILLE SOMERSET would prefer leaving the
apt ointment entirely to the discretion of the Lord Chancellor as
far as it regarded the qualification of seven years standing. He
did not thir,k'restrict►ng the appointments to barristers of that
standing would enhance the qualification of judges. He also
agreed w►th the Hon. Member for Finsbury that the attorneys
were hardly dealt with by the B►ll, and he would rather leave the
appointment open to them, though his own opinion was, that the
education of a barrister rendered him more eligible as a judge.
Sir G. GREY differed with the Noble Lord as to the view
he took regartring the srven years' qualification. He consi-
dered it would be the means of securing men of grater ex-
perience if they retained the restriction in question. Hr
could not agree with the amendment respecting the ap
pointment of thy attorneys, as it would be contrary to all
precedent in similar Bills, anti would lead, he was persuaded to
great inconveneinee. Besides, he thought the training of a
barrister was better for a judge than that of au attorney.
Mr. BERNAL objected to the clanse limiting the judges
in the manner proposed. lie thought it would lie better to
leave the mater to the discretion of the Lord Chancellor.

Mr. HENLEY thought it would be better not to have any
definition whatever in reference to standing, but to leave the
responsibility entirely on the thoulders of the Lord Chancellor,
and he would have the same principle to apply with regard to
attorneys and barristers. _ _

Colonel SIBTHORP thought it very hard to exclude attor
neys, and he hoped that the lion. Member for Finsbury would
divide the House on his amendment.

The AT fORNEY••GENERAL thought that attorneys
would be by no means so eligible for judges of these courts as
banisters, and supposing there were persons in that profession
suitable for the situations, the Lord Chancellor had no means of
judging of their qualification, which was not the case with regard
to barristers. Besides, from their attention having been almost
entirely turned to the minutiae of legal details, they were not so
competent to deal with the business which would come before
those courts as barristers.

Mr. B. ESCOTT denied that there would be any more dif-
ficulty in ascertaining the efympetency of attorneys than of
barristers. He knew many barristers of seven years' standing
who were utterly disqualified for such a situation, while at the
same time he knew many attorneys who were very eligible to
be judges of such courts.
Lord G. SOMERSET thought that Members of Parlia-
ment should not be judges in these courts.
Mr. ROMILLY hoped that her Majesty's Government
would introduce a clause in the Bill for the purpose of prevent-
ing Members of Parliament from becoming judges in them.
Sir GEORGE GREY thought that the Bill sufficiently
provided for that, as no judge of that court could be absent
from his duties more than two months.

Mr. BERNAL thought such a clause as that referred to by
the Hon. Member for Bridport (Mr. Romilly) necessary, as
the clause referring to the two months' absence might be
evaded.

Mr. HENLEY thought that the judges should be prevented
from practising in the districts where the courts over which
which they presided were situated.
Mr. ROMILL Y thought that it would be much
better to invest the judges, as far as possible, with
a purely judicial character, and for that purpose he
considered that they ought not to be allowed to practise at all.
Let their whole time be occupied with the business of the
courts, and let them not be allowed to dabble in the litigation

of ihe locality vi here they reside.
Mr. S. WORTLEY thought a man might be a very good
judge of such a court, while, at the same time he sttended to
all the practice which he might get. He had known many
instances of that kind, and he never knew any evil to result
from it.
Air. BERNAL said, that he had known many uses on the
Welch circuits similar to those referred to by the Hon. and
Learned Member who last addressed the Committee.
Mr. WILLIAMS said, that he believed the Hi•me Secre-

tary could find more than double the necessary number of able
barristers, who would be very glad to accept of the office
upon the terms proposed by the Hon. Member for Finsbury.
Mr. B. ESCOTT entirely concurred in the views of the
Hon. Member for Coventry.
Lord JOAN RUSSELL —ln his opinion there were two
modes in which they could obtain very good judges, and one
way was that in which they appointed the judges of the superior
courts at Westminster. to whom they gave very considerable
salaries, and compelled them to separate from their practice
at the bar, and to devote the whole of their
time to the questions that came before them
in their judicial character. That plan was foand to be calcula-
,ed in an eminent manner to obtain justice to the ccuntrt , and
by that means they no doubt obtained excellent judges. There
was another mode as respected the appointment to a less important
and more limited sphere, viz., the recordership of the county.
the gentlemen who were appointed to those offices were al-
lowed to continue in their practice at the bar. He believed
that with respect to one of the instances which the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite had mentioned,
Mr. Baines' the recorder of Leeds, he was the party who re-
commended him to the Crown, as a fit person for the recur-
dership of Leeds. Now he thought it was most ridiculous to
say that that Gentleman, and the others, who filled the office
-of recorderships of the eounty, did not. perform their judicial
functions in an efficient manner. Their heads were con-
stantly exercised, and their minds kept in full vigour upon the
consideration of the legal questions that came before them.
There were no questions on the law of which they had
become forgetful, because they were continually in practice as
barristers in the inferior courts. They had, therefore,
but two courses to take in respect to the appointments to the
judicial offices to be created in this court, either they must give
the judges very considerable salaries and have those persons
constantly employed in judicial functions, or they must take
the other plan, which, in hie opinion, was a very good and
efficient plan, namely, that of appointing persons who would still
be allowed to practice at the bar. With regard to the other plan
namely, that of getting persons who would be paid better
salaries, but would be compelled to remain in certain districts
to which they might happen to be appointed. But that was a
plan which in his opinion would not be found to work well
—Hear, hear)—and he believed that the consequence
of adopting such a plan would be that they would
find that persons who did not very well succeed
at the bar—( Hear, hear)—would all be anxious to obtain
their opportunity, and that men who had talents and
knew that they were likely to rise at the bar, would refuse to
accept any such employment.—(Hear, hear.) And that they
would be thus excluding men of the best talents and the greatest
vigour of mind from those offices. —(Hear, hear.) He knew
that it was said, and indeed it was perfectly true, that men
who had not much practice at the bar, had a great deal of
talent, knowledge, and judicial understanding. Now, al-
though that was perfectly true, yet the difficulty was, for the
persons who had the patronage created by this sill to ascer-
tain who those parties were. If a man with all this
talent had no practice at the liar, how were the dispensers
of the patronage to knew them ; but when they appointed
men who had large practice, they were then certain that
their appointments muat give satisfaction to the public.
They selected men of great eminence, argument, and legal
knowledge.. And be believed that the course adopted on this
country was alto adopted in Scotland, where the people
were Dever satisfied with the decisions of • their local
judges (who did not practice at the bar) on mat-
ters of law. They almost invariably on difficult points
appealed from their decision to that of a superiors judge,
ho continued his practice at the bar, and was therefore
conversant with the whole machinery of the law. Indeed
the law of Scotland rendered it absolutely necessary that the
judges of those superior Courts do attend the Courts
of Session at Edinburgh—(Hear, hear)—and on all
these grounds, he was therefore of opinion, that
the principle of this Bill, which would permit the
judges still to continue in their practice at the bar
was the best that could he adopted.—(Hear, hear. )
He felt bound to maintain the Bill as it then stood with one
exception. The Hon. Member for Winchester had objected
to this appointment of barristers who were to practice in the
district in which they were to act as judges. His Hon.
Friend would make the necessary alterations to meet that
objection. which was, in his opinion, well-founded.—( Hear.)
Mr. HUME said that, with re-pect to the example given
by the Noble Lord, he must dissent from it. He himself had
presented petitions from the people sf Scotland, praying that
they should have judges resident amongst them. He
thought a local judge would necessarily give more roisfac-
, tion than he now did.—(Hear, hear.) He therefore pro.
tested against the illustration given by the Noble Lord. He
thought that the judges should be judges throughout. They
should not be for half-and-half duties. What had taken place
upon an analogous question? Why, when the salaries were
' fixed fer the Masters of Chancery, he himself proposed to give
them 590/. a year additional.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. BERNAL said that different principles were maintained
in this Bill, where the attorneys who were to be employed were
to discontinue their practice.—( Hear, hear.) He would make
these barristers a kind of justices going from one district to
another. He woulal give them enough to do, pay them well,
and keep them constantly employed.
Mr. MUNTZ said it was understood that these judges were
to change their localities ; how, then, if they -continued to
practice were they to discharge their functions according to
the provisions of this Bill ?—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARBURTON said he could not agree to the Bill.
If he could. clearly see the premises of the Noble Lord upon
which he founded his arguments, he might be able to agree
with him. It should be remembered that those judges had to
deal with a class of litigants who, from their habits and pre-
judices, were much more suspicious of the dispensation of the
law than those at Westminster.
Mr. HORSMAN said it was proposed to make such districts
as would employ the whole time of these judges, and of course
then the analogy to the Court of the Recorder failed. He had
no doubt, if suffie:ent salary were fixed,. judges enough could be
got from Westminster Hall.
Sir G. GREY said the Hon. Member had mistaken his
meaning ; and he observed further, that salaries could not im-
mediately be fixed, as the districts would differ in the amount
of employmerr, and ought also in salary.
Mr. GREENE put the question, which was negatived.
Mr. WAKLEY proposed that attornies should be eligible
to those offices. He did not make it binding to elect attornies,
only that they should be eligible, and he wascertain, if a salary
of 1,2001. a year were fixed, they would get attorneys, many of
whom were men of great legal learning, who would accept of
the office. He did not go aside from precedent in making that
proposal, for there were attorneys already Judges : and in the
last year's Act, the Small Debts Bill, attornies of ten
years' standing might be judges of the Courts. He felt in
earnest on the subject, and would divide the House on it.
Sir GEORGE GREY said he had nothing more to say to
the proposal of the Hon. Member in addition to what he bad
already ; it had already been discussed, and he did not refrain
from answering the Hon. Member from any disrespect.
The House then divided on Mr. Wakley's amendment.
For the anienthrent • 16
Against it ..
Majority against the amendment. ........ —37
The House immediately afterwards divided on an amend-
ment made lay another Hon. Member, that any Judge ap-
pointed under the Act should cease to practice as barristers.
For the amendment
Jo
Against it
57
Majority against it .....
—45
The clanae es amended was then agreed to, as were also
Clauses 10 and. 11.
After a few words from Colonel T. Wools and the AT..
TORNEY.GENERAL the 12th clause vas agreed to; as were
also clause, 13 and 14.
Clause 15 having been read,
Lord G. SOMER sET rose for the purpose of making some
observations upon the clause, when
Sir G. GREY said that if this clause were likely to create
any considerable dtscussion, he s'i:ould, considering the great
pressure of business before the House, move that the chain:ROl
do report progress,

Clause 15 was then agreed to.
The CAAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave to
bit again to-morrow.
HAYDOCK LODGE LUNATIC ASYLUM.
Upon the order of the day for going into committee on the
Public yyorks (Ireland) No. 4 Bill. _

\lr. WAKLEY wished to know whether the returns horn
the Haydock Lodge Lunatic Asylum were ready.
Lord G. SEYMOUR was understood to say th
not prepared.
WAKLEY then postponed the motion, which he in-
tended to found upon them, until Monday,
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND), No. 4, BILL.

The House then went into CommitteWon this Hill.

The several clauses having been. agreed to, the House re-
sumed, the Chairman reported progress, and the report, was
ordered to be brought up to-marrow.
A messenger from the Lords brought up several Bills, which
were ordered to lie on the table.