The Sun.
London, England, 1848-02-19 00:00:00

OF ROME.

The Duke of RICK LClotig presented a petition
from Glasgow against the Bill for establishing diplo-
matic relations with the Court of Rome.
On the question being put for going into Commit-
tee on the a' ova Bill,
Earl FITZWILLIAM said he highly approved
of the principle of the measure. It was of the utmost
mportance that this country should have an
accredited agent at the Court of Rome, and he for one
thought no man could look at what was at present
going on in many parts of Europe without being;
convinced of this. A struggle was going on between
absolute Governments and free institutions, and when
be remembered that the Pope was favourable to
the party who supported the latter mode of
government, he could not help thinking that it was
their bounden duty to give him the support of
such a measure as this. But what could be
more important to this country than being placed
in a position to communicate officially with the
Pope of Rome on the subject of his relations with
her Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, part;cularly
with those who resided in this country, and being,
therefore, a supporter of the principle of this
Bill, and - ready to vote for going into
Committee to consider its provisions, he was anxious
to throw out a suggestion that the objections of some
of its oponents might be obviated by charging the
phraseology in which it was worded.
Lord CAMPBELL, in answer to a call from the
Noble Earl who had just sat down, could assure the
House that there was nothing now on the statute
book, or in the common law of the land, to
prevent her Majesty from establishing diplomatie
relations with the Court of Rome, and he trusted,
therefore, that there would be no objc ction to the
form of this Bill.
Their Lordships then went into Committee.
Lord STANLEY suggested that the existing pre•
amble should be struck out, and the words following
substituted :—" Whereas doubts raving arisen as to
the power of her Majesty to establish diplomatic rela-
tions with the Court ofßome, without :he sanction of an
Act of Parliament, be it therefore enacted," !cc. This
would probably remove the objection alluded to by
the Noble Earl who bad addressed their Lordships
before going into Committee.
The Marquis of LA.NSDOWNE did not think
it advisable to make such an alteration.

The Bishop of WINCHESTER objected to the
words " Sovereign Pontiff," and wished that some
other title should be applied to the Pope.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said it might
perhaps remove the objection of the Right Rev.
Prelate if they inserted the words, the " Sovereign
Pontiff of Rome."

The Bishop of WINCHESTER said it would
not, because the term " Sovereign Pontiff "
implied that the sovereign holding that had
a supremacy over the sovereigns of other
countries than Rome. If the Noble Lord would
simply introduce the words " Sovereign of the Roman
States" it would meet his objection.—(Hear.)
After a few words from the Earl of SHREWS-
BURY,

The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S saw no objection to
the words as they stood in the Bill, for the term
Sovereign Pontiff did not imply any superiority over
the sovereigns or ecclesiastics of other nations. The
term "Sovereign Pontiff," was to be found in Hume's
" History of England," and many other works of
eminent Protestants, and he could see no just reason
why it should not be introduced into this Bill.
The Bishop of EXETER said, notwithstanding
what had fallen from the Right Rev. Prelate, he
must still object to the words used in the Bill. Ac-
cording to, the doctrine of the Protestant Church,
there was no Sovereign Pontiff in Christendom, and
it was no reason because some Protestant historian
had loosely used the term Sovereign Pontiff while
speaking of the reign of Henry the Second,
that it ought to be introduced into the Bill. Indeed,
the great question in dispute between the Bishop of
Rome and the Reformed Church was, whether he
had a right to adopt the title of Sovereign Pontiff,
and although the term might have been used in his-
tory, he most decidedly objected to its being now
for the first time applied to legislative forms.
Lord COLCHE STE R warned their Lordships that
it might lead to future difficulty, for it might so
happen that the Pope of Rome might not be the
sovereign of the Roman States.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the term So-
vereign Pontiff had been applied to the Pope of Rome
as a title of courtesy for many centuries, and as it
was used in this Bill in the same sense he could not
see upon what ground their Lordships could object
to it. Still he had no objection to adopt the words
" Sovereign of the Roman States."
The Duke of WELLINGTON said the Bill had
for its object the establishment of diplomatic relations
between the Roman States and this country upon
political matters ; it appeared to him that the term or
title " Sovereign of the Roman States" was prefer-
able to Sovereign Pontiff.
The amendment was then agreed to.
Earl of EGLDITON considered that it was ad-
visable that diplomatic relations should be established
with the Court of Rome, but these diplomatic rela-
tions ought to be strictly of a political character.
He should, therefore, move as an amendment to that
part of the Bill empowering her Majesty to receive
an Ambassador from Rome, that the following words
be inserted in page 2, line 26, after the word what-
soever, " not being in holy orders in the Church of
Rome, nor a Jesuit, or member of any other reli-
gious order, community, or society of the Church of
Rome, bound by monastic or religious vows."
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE did not think it
was expedient for their Lordships to dictate to the
Court of Rome as to whom they should send to this
country as ambassadors; and he must, therefore,
resist the introduction o the amendment.—(Hear,
hear.) This Bill would only place her Majesty.
on a footing at the Court of Rome with other Pro-
testant sovereigns of Europe, but the Noble Earl
Opposite wished that the Pope should be compelled to
concede more to her Majesty, and he, for one, could
not agree that this country had a right to make such
a demand.
_ The Earl of ABERDEEN rose to record his vote in
favour of the amendment. He had had very consider-
able experience and he sincerely deprecated the resi-
dence of a Papal nuncio in this country—(Hear, hear)
—not from any anti-Catholic feelings upon his part,
fir all his life he was in favour of the removal of Roman
Catholic disabilities but his objection proceeded en-
tirely from the great inconvenience
to which the resi-
dence of a nuncio in this country must necessarily lead.
A nuncio must be an ecclesiastic, and as such he would
bo invested with almost unlimited power. He would
possess acknowledged spiritual superiority over the
whole Roman Catholic people of this tcountry. The
appointment of a nuncio was in fact transferring the
Vatican to England. If, however' it must exist, he
should
much rather see it remain at Rome than
should be transferred to London.—(Dear, hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON thought the Noble
Lord (Eglinton) was out of order. There villa(' be no
necessity for the proposed clause if the Noble Marquis
(Lansdowne) adopted the suggestion made last night,
and inserted the words " diplomatic relations;" it would
put an end to the necessity for specifying the classifica.
tion or denomination of the particular persons to be ap-
pointed. He thought it desirable that the question of
the rank and description of the person to be appointed
should stand entirely open.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord BEAUMONT expressed his regret and surprise
at the reasons assined by the Noble Lords opposite for
their opposition tot he measure as it was proposal. i
considered it not only expedient, but necessary and most
important, that there should be a diplomatic con-.
flexion established between this country and Rome.
If no other advantage was to be reaped from
it than to deprive Dr. M`Hale, and other such
persons, of the opportunity of making misrepresenta-
tions respecting the state of Ireland, the measure would
be. of tho utmost use and importance. Dr. APllale, and
others of his class, send their accredited agents to
Rome, and from those persons and the representations
they thought
y the Pope. proper to make, all knowledge of Ireland
b
was obtained He (Lord Beaumont) and
n
every enlightened ma
inelthis country believed that,
circumstanced as Ireland is, it will be governed most
effectively, through the instrumentality. of Rome. But
as far as he knew, the opinion prevalent in Italy was
that the less theyd
ahaladutgehd.) w4thli Ireland the better.—
(Hear, hear,
e party who objected to
the measure out of doors, the ultra-Protestants,
in Ireland, no
and the ultra-ttortian Catehpopinicsitepar.rtya
theireT h e
nuip e.
doubt for opposite—very
because they imagined the measure wonidal.
poheata -morkepower, and the ultra-Roman
-opposed it because they knew they would lose much of
,their infiueikeelafquired by the means and facilitiensen of
Afforded tbeni, tO.. make tho grossest misrepresentationsw
st,liome.

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