The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-01 00:00:00

THE SITN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING-, J (HAY I, 184.3

the best means of promoting the dispatch of the business
of the House.—(He far, hear.)
The Earl of Al 3,UNDEL and SURREY presented
a petition from the ticket porters of the House, praying
for increased rerniir ieration.

called on the N )ble Lord to fulfil the conditions of the
return as ordered to be made by the House, and to pro-
duce the correspondence of 1837 and 1838. The Noble
Lord had slipped through his fingers half a dozen times,
but he would put it to the House whether they were to
be satisfied with his refusal to comply with the order en-
tered in the journals. If the Noble Lord, however,
would consent to withdraw the imputations which he cast
upon him, he (Mr. Urquhart) would agree to press the
matter no farther.—(A laugh.)
Lord PALMERSTON said that on the occasion when
the Hon. Member gave notice of his intention to move
for the correspondence in question, he had called on him
to retract the imputation conveyed by his (Lord Pal-
merston's) having attributed the Hon. Member's hos-
tility to his recal—(A laugh)—he had refused to do so.
That was his opinion. It might be right, or it might
be wrong; but he certainly should not retract it, as be
entertained such an opinion. He had produced the cor-
respondence which he had agreed to do, and he should
only say that if the House of Commons called upon him
to produce the remainder of the letters he should do so,
but not otherwise. .

METROPOLITAN SURVEY.
Sir B. HALL wished to know, pursuant to notice he
had given yesterday, from the Noble Lord at the head
of the Woods 'And Forrests, whether the associated
surveyors and civil engineers of the metropolis had
made an uffer to make the survey of the metro-
polis for a sum of 18,0001., and what were the
reasons the Commissioners of Sewers had preferred the
survey taking place under the Ordnance Department; the
also wished to ask the Chief Commissioner of Woods
and Forests what arrangements had been made for the
completion of the survey of the metropolis, what was
likely to be the cost of that survey, including the mili-
tary pay of the parties employed, and whether the whole
is to be defrayed by the ratepayers of the' metropolis?
Lord MORPETII said that it was true that the
associated surveyors and civil engineers of the
metropolis had made the offer to which the
Hon. Baronet had referred, but the Commissioners of

Lord AIAHON rose, not to question the propriety of the
Noble Lord's refusal to produce the correspondence, but
to submit to his consideration the fact whether it was not

Sewers, acting upon the best advice they could procure,
bad come to the decision thP.t the best guarantee

they could have for making a proper survey would
be to employ those who acted under the authority
and control of the Ordnance. The expense of the sur-
vey under the Ordnance Department would be 19,5001.,
not one tenth more than the offer made by the asso-

highly inconvenient that an order of the House to pro-
duce certain papers should be disobeyed? It was not
consistent with the dignity of the House not to insist
on complete obedience to its commands. He wished,
therefore, to know whether the Government would riot
take some measure for rescinding the order on. 'the

dated, surveyors and engineers, while it was anti-
cipa',ed that double the work would be performed.
Jn reply to a question of Sir DE LACY EVANS,
Colonel ANSON said that three companies were en-
',caged on the survey, and that when the men were em-
ployed in that capacity they received extra pay. The
'whole cost of the survey would be paid by the Commis-
sioners of Sewers, but whether the money would come
out of the rates which were levied upon the respective
districts or not, he was quite unable to answer, that
being within the province of his Noble Friend the First
Commissioner of Woods and Forests.
BOROUGH OF SLIGO.

journals?
Lord J. RUSSELL agreed that the order ought to be
rescinded, and stated that he should take it into his con-
sideration how this could be best effected.

Mr. URQUHART again urged hia question as to
what course the Government intended to take respecting
the incomplete return to which he had already called
attention?

Lord J. RUSSELL said that he should on some future
day move that the present order be rescinded, and make
fresh motion for papers in conformity with those laid
on the table of the House,

Mr. STAFFORD moved, that Mr. Speaker do issue
his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland, to
make out a new writ for the electing a burgess to
serve in this present Parliament for the borough of
Sligo, in the room of Charles Towneley, Esq., whose
elef.;tion has been determined to be void.
ROYAL COMMISSION.

Mr. BAILEY said that the conduct of the Noble Lord
(Palmerston) was not candid, fur he ought to have come
down and expressed his determination not to grant the
papers moved for when they were first ordered.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the terms of the mo-
tion never caught his attention. But he must say that
after the lion. Member had expressly consented to with-
draw his motion for the correspondence respecting his
rectal, it never entered his imagination that he would
move .for those very papers in the manner he had done.
But, perhaps, it was his own fault that be had not
looked more narrowly into the words of the Hon. Mem-
ber's motion.
After some further conversation the subject dropped,
and the motion for adjournment was withdrawn.
RUMOURED SEIZURE OF A BRITISH VESSEL
ON THE COAST OF FRANCE.

Sir Augustus Clifford, Gentleman Usher of the Black
Rod, here appeared at the bar of the House, and having
advanced to the table, summoned the House to attend
the house of Peers, to hear the Royal Assent given by
Commission to several Bills (for the titles of which see
Lords' report).
The SPEAKER having returned and reported. the
Bills to which the royal assent had been given,
Mr. S PAFFORD resumed his speech on his 'morsels
for issuing a new writ for the borough of Sligo. He in.
timated t►at now that the Great Yarmouth Disfl:anchise-
ment Bill had become law, it was his int.ention to
move that a new writ be issued for that lx,rough as
well as Sligo. Nothing had yet been done to improve
the state of Ireland, and he did not th=ink the House
would be justified in refusing to Cow one of her
vacant boroughs to send a representat;" to that House.
The suction having been seconded,
Mr. HUME protested that the motion was irregular.
The evidence taken before the Sligo Committee had
been ordered to be printed, and he had never heard
of an instance where a writ was moved for in a case
like this, till the order for printing the evidence had
been complied with.
Mr. ANSTEY supported the motion.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said, until they had the
evidence taken in the Committee before them, in order
that they might see whether there had been extensive
corruption or not, ho could not consent to the issuing of
the writ.
Colonel DUNNE said he considered it would be un-
constitutional and most inconvenient to postpone the
issue of the writ for Sligo, and stated that his only
object in postponing the motion of which he had given
notice for issuing it, was to allow time to have the evi-
dence printed and laid before the House.
Sir JOHN HANMER said he had just been informed
that a petition would be presented to the House against
the return at the new election for Horsham, for which
borough the House had only lately issued a writ, and
tL►:t being the case he thought it would not be prudent
to issue any more writs until some inquiry was made
into those particular boroughs where members had been
unseated on the ground of corruption. Hon. Gen-
tlemen had stated that it was unconstitutional
to suspend writs, but in 1775, during the
time of Burke and Sir George Saville, he
found that the House had suspended a writ for the bo-
rough of Shaftesbury, where the election had been de -
teared void on account of corruption.
Mr. BANKES said the Hon. Member (Col. Dunne)
had moved that the minutes of evidence should be
printed, but he had done so in error, because it rested
with one of the members of the Committee to make
that motion. Unless, therefore, such a motion was
made, ho should certainly vote for the motion of his
Hon. Friend.
Sir GEORGE GREY said the evidence was being
printed, and would be laid before the House in
two or three days. He trusted, therefore, that the Hon.
Gentleman would not press his motion, but wait until
the House had an opportunity of judging whether there
was any ground for suspending the writ for Sligo.
Mr. WRIGHTSON stated, as the Chairman of the
Committee, that the issue of the inquiry did not impress
the Committee with the notion that the House would
refused to issue the writ.—(Hear, hear.) He regretted
that the evidence had not been ordered to be laid before
the House.
Mr. R. SPOONER thought that the Hon. Member
who had just spoken had stated grounds upon which he
thought the House ought to issue the writ, for hethad
regretted that the evidence had been ordered to be laid
on the table of the House.
Sir R. PEEL would have felt inclined to vote for a
delay in the issuing of the writ, but from the statement
that had just been made by the Hon. Member opposite
(Mr. Wrightson).
Mr. HUME after the statement that had been made
would not oppose further the issuing of the writ.
The writ was then ordered to issuo.
GREAT YARMOUTH.

Mr. WYLD asked the Noble Lord a question. II
had heard it reported that a British vessel had been
seized by the French authorities, whilst attempting to
land arms en the coast of Brittany ; and he wanted to
know whether the Noble Lord had had any account of
such an event having occurred.
Viscount PALMERSTON—I was not aware of the
report to which the Hon. Gentleman alludes. But I
shall take this opportunity of saying that, during the late
events that have taken place in Paris, reports were cir-
culated, and from quarters from which this should not
have proceeded, which suggested that the British Go-
vernment were guilty of having been concerned in these
events. lam happy to be able to take this opportunity
of stating that there could not be anything more false
and nut ounded than an imputation of the kind.—(Loud
cheers.) Indeed her Majesty's Government have had
every reason to acknowledge the fair and handsome
manner in which the Provisional Government, and the
Executive Committr2e, subsequently established in
France, have acted in conducting the affairs of that na-
tion with this country. I must say, nothing could be
more fair and honourable—(Cheers)—and I trust that
the well-known fair arid honourable principles of the
British Government, and the manner in which their
affairs are conducted, will he sufficient to prevent any
doubt that their conduct will continue to be guided by
the same honour and good faith,—(Cheers.) It', therefore,
the question of the Honourable Gentleman relates to any
suspicion that arms have been sent by the British Go-
vernment to any part of France, I assure him there is
not the slightest foundation for such a supposition.
Mr. WYLD said that the report was, not that the
vessel was a Government but a private one. It was
merely that an English vessel had been seized by the
French authorities on the coast of Brittany, in the at-
tempt to land arms, and he (Mr. Wyld) had received
more than one letter which stated that the event had hap-
pened. He was anxious to call attention to the report,
because at the present time it was highly necessary that
such reports should be contradicted if possible.
Viscount PALMERSTON—Of course if a private
undertaking be made in a private vessel to land arms, I
cannot say anything. I can only hope that the authori-
ties of the country where such attempt has been made
will deal with such an adventurer as the laws of the
country may justity.—(Hear, hear.)
The subject then dropped.
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

Mr. HUME begged to ask the Right Hon. Baronet
the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Govern-
ment had taken any steps to carry into effect the resolu-
tion come to on a former evening respecting the mode of
keeping the public accounts ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would reply to the question on Monday.
Mr. ANSTEY begged to assure the Right Hon.
Baronet the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the ob-
servations which he made on the preceuing evening rela-
tive to the Irish deputation on the rum duties, had been
misrepresented i❑ several of the papers.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was
quite satisfied that the Hon. Member had not made the
observations imputed to him.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

Lord J. RUSSELL, in answer to a question put by
Mr. A. Stafford, said that it would depend on the pro-
gress made in the business on the paper whether the
House met to-morrow (this day) or not.
SUGAR DUTIES.
The House then went into Committee on the Sugar
Duties.

Mr. STAFFORD then moved for s new writ for the
borough of Great Yarmouth, which was agreed to with-
out an; opposition.
RAILWAY COMMISSION.

On the first resolution being put from the Chair,
Mr. BRIGHT rose to move the amendment of which
he had given notice. The question was whether there
should be a large or a small increase made in the amount
of the protection now given to West India sugars. The
debate that had just closed had entirely destroyed the
propositions brought forward by the Noble Lord, but
there was one thing in particular which could not have
failed to strike any person who had heard the discus
sion—namely, that one great party to the question
had been totally overlooked, and that was the great
class of sugar consumers in the three kingdoms for
whose benefit the Act of 1846 had been passed. Now,
he stood there on behalf of that 'great class by whom
sugar was chiefly consumed ; and he asked the Com-
mittee to refuse to alter the Act of 1846. The ques-
tion had heen debated on two principalgrounds—namely,
slavery and protection to the West Indians. Great
sympathy had been expressed for the slaves in the Bra-
zils and the Africans yet in their native country ; and
the Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Pakington) had talked
about the holy struggle which ended in the Emancipa-
tion Bill of 1832. But numbers of those lion. Members
(including the Hon. Baronet the Member for Oxford)
had abstained during the debates on the Slavery Act
from making any efforts in support of that law, and
many, indeed, had voted against it. It had been urged
that there was a great falling off in West Indian pro-
duce, but to come to a correct conclusion on that point
they should take an average of a number of years, be-
cause in ordinary course of trade it happened that one
year's importation was, from accidental causes, greater
than that of another. In 1845 the importation of slaves
into Cuba, as stated in the returns prepared by the West
Indian body, amounted to 32,000, and in 1846 it had
risen to 64,000. Now he wished to call the attention
of the House to the dishonesty with which these re-
turns had been prepared. It was intended to prove
that the impulse given to the slave trade by the Bill of
1846 was felt directly. But it should be recollected
that the Government which psssed that Bill did
not come into power until that year, and that the Bill
itself was introduced on the 20th of July. No positive
information respecting it could reach Cuba until the end
of August, after which the slave-ships must be sent to
Africa. Now, he would ask the House whether, under
such circumstances, the Bill of 1846 could have any
effect on the importation of slaves during that year ?
—(Hear, hear.) What became of the argument, when
it was known that in 1847 the importation had gone
down to 63,000?—(Hear, hear.) He contended that
the whole case broke down as regarded the impulse
given to the importation of slaves into Cuba and Brazil
by the Bill of 1846. The Right Hon. Member for
Oxford University had said that what the planters
wanted was money; and that the compensation they
had received amounted to only 45 per cent. of their
value. Well, granting that to be true, how much did
that compensation come to, as compared to the previous
trade of the colonies, to which compensation was awarded?
He would take Jamaica, Trinidad, and Guiana.
The largest exports of Jamaica were in 1833, when it
amounted in value to 3,148,0001. That amount, allow-
ing ten per cent., would leave a capital of 314,000/. Now
the share of the compensation money which was re-
ceived by Jamaica was 6,150,000/., and that sum if
invested at five per cent., would yield an income of
375,0001., being within 7,3001. of ten per cent. on the
whole export.—(Hear, hear.) In Trinidad and Guiana
a similar calculation would give an income of thirteen
per cent. on the entire exports of both colonies. That
was certainly a higher profit:than the majority of traders
looked for in this country, but he believed that if the
whole of the West Indies were taken, the interest of the
compensation money would give an income of fifteen
per cent. on the whole previous annual amount of their
exports. But that was not all. Besides getting
such an enormous compensation, the planters retained
their estates, their buildings, their implements, and
an their floating capital. Surely, then, they had re-
ceived ample equivalent for the difference of price
between slave and free labour.—(Hear, hear.) With
respect to the apprenticeship system, it had been said
that it had lasted only four years instead of six. He
was not going to upbraid the planters with the cause of
that sudden change, abut of this he was sure that the
feeling which had caused the abolition of the apprentice-
ship was caused by well authenticated complaints that
the planters did. not mean to abide by the state of free-
dom. Something had been said of an impliedicontract
between the planters and the Parliament of England at
the time of emancipation. He had never heard of such
a contract, but if such had ever existed, it was highly
dishonourable to the contracting parties. No such con-
tract could bind the people of England to submit to a
monopoly. But the colonists had a monopoly for up-
wards of eleven years, to the extent of 15s. per cwt.,
which, looking at the selling price of sugar in, all the

Lord JOIN- RUSSELL, in answer to a question
from Mr. Bankes, said it was the intention of the Govern-
ment to oppose his motion for leave to bring in a Bill
to abolish the Railway Commission, but it was not the
intention of the Government to keep up the Commission
with Commissioners having salaries.—(Hear, hear.)
SPAIN.

Mr. URQUHART then rose, pursuant to notice, to
put a question to the Foreign Secretary, with reference
to a return of the 30th of May, respecting the arms and
ammunition furnished to Spain by this country. On a
former occasion the Noble Lord had stated that money
was due by Spain to this country ; subsequently a
return, moved for by the Hon. Member for Pontefract,
while giving other particulars, made no mention of any
money due from Spain to this country. He wished to
know which of the two—the Noble Viscount's statement
or the return—was to be taken as representing the real
fact of the case, the more especially as, from another
paper presented that morning, the House was informed
that the Spanish Government owed us 564,0001., advanced
in money or goods, under the quadruple treaty?
Lord PALMERSTON said that the Hon. Member
would have seen by the returns that had been laid on the
table some time ago what the amount of the claim unsa-
tisfied by the Spanish Government was. The claim had
been admitted, although it was not yet paid.
Mr. URQUHART asked when the correspondence
moved for and ordered respecting the attack on the
Mosquito territory would be laid on the table?
Lord PALMERSTON said on Monday next.
Mr. URQUHART had another question to put to
the Noble Lord.—(Oh, oh.) On the 6th of March the
Noble Lord had agreed to produce certain documents
and correspondence which he had required in order to
rebut some imputations which had been made upon him
in a formal manner. A few days ago some papers were
laid on the table purporting to be the documents ordered
to be produced in conformity to the order of the House.
The papers so ordered to be laid on the table were let-
ters dated in the years 1837 and 1838; whereas the date
of the earliest letter contained in the returns on the
table was the year 1838. He wished to have an expla-
nation of this circumstance from the Noble Lord
opposite.
Lord PALMERSTON said that during a former
debate he had read a letter from Mr. Backhouse, and
some printed papers relative to the Portfolio which he
had promised to lay on the table of the House, as he
considered it to be the duty of a Minister to do after he
had read or quoted such papers in the House.—(Hear,
hear.) The Honourable Member subsequently moved
an unopposed return for the correspondence relating to
his recal from the post of Secretary of Embassy at Con-
stantinople; but as soon as he (Lord Palmerston) found
that he had done so, he signified that had he known
what the papers moved for were he never would have
consented to their being granted, for it was contrary to
constitutional practice for the Government to be
called upon to state any reasons for the recal of
a diplomatic agent from abroad.—(Hear, hear.)
He therefore stated to the Honourable Member that
if he had given notice of the correspondence he was
going t move for he (Lord Palmerston) should
have opposed it, upon which the Hon. Member stated he
was willing to take what documents he was ready to
give. He then told the Hon. Member that he objected
to let such a motion remain on the journals of the House
and that if he would not move that it be rescinded, he
himself would. The Hon. Member did so, and then
gave notice of his intention to move for other papers.
He (Lord Palmerston) confessed he was to blame, for he
saw the notice at the time, which was for correspondence
of the years 1337 and 1838, whereas the correspondence
laid on the table was dated 1839. But what correspon-
dence he had engaged to produce was of the latter date,
and not of 1837-8, and unless the House were to compel
him to do so, he should continue to object to produce
the correspondence in question, as that would establish a
very inconvenient precedent.
Mr. URQUHART rose to revive the Noble Lord's
memory, but was interrupted by cries of "Spoke."
Mr. C. ANSTEY moved that the House do now ad-
.
Mr. URQUHART said that the Noble Lord's state-
ment was the reverse of the fact. His lion. Friend (Mr.
C. Anstey) would bear witness that the papers referred
to by the Noble Lord as having been those promised by
him, related to the debate of th Ist of March. The oc-
casion when the Noble Lord promised him to produce
the correspondence was on the 6th of March, and in what
he had said the Noble Lord had made as great a devia-
tion from the statement of facts as that which had been
the subject of conversation some nights ago. He now

other markets of the world, gave them a sum of not
less than thirty millions sterling in addition
to the twenty millions sterling granted in
1834. If this were true, he should like to
know whether Parliament owed anything to the colo-
nies, or whether all was not due to the people of this

country, who had been grievously oppressed by the mo-
nopoly which was put an end to by the Bill of 1846.
The Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, seemed to con-
tend that it was the duty of Parliament to make the
production of sugar in the British West Indies a profit-
able occupation. Suppose they took that for granted,
was the sugar trade the only trade requiring assistance?
—(Hear, hear.) He could take the Noble Lord round
all the staple trades of this country, and show him
that during last year not one had been carried on at a
profit.—(Hear, hear.) There was not one of them
which could point to twenty years of monopoly, with a
profit of fifty per cent. How was it in other parts of
the world In India the ryot had no protection in
the cultivation of his cotton, nor had the Australian any
for his wool. Did the Noble Lord know that the price
of that article had fallen from I s. 9d. to ls. the pound?
Why, Parliament could do nothing else, if it were to
entertain such questions as these.—(Hear, hear.) This
heavily taxed country was now called upon to give
assistance to the colonies, and at such a time it would be a

might be had without any increase of protection.—
(Hear.) It was the duty of Government to stimulate
consumption, not increase protection.—(Hear.) The
Noble Lord (J. Russell) said he looked to increased con-
sumption for the prosperity of the colonies ; and there
could be no doubt if the Noble Lord could steer the co-

lonics through the present storm, and facilitate consump-
tion here, he would be conferring a great benefit both
on the grower of sugar and the consumer. Those who
had spoken in favour of the present measure had esti-
mated the loss that would result to the revenue at trom
10,0001. to 40,0001. He hoped the 1-lon. Member for
Westbury would, in the course of the present debate,
explain the grounds of that calculation. If there
should be an enormous increase of consumption it was

probable that the loss would not exceed tliZtt amount ;
but if, as the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wilson) had said, the
highest duty always regulated the pric, and price regu-
lated the consumption, there would be no increased con-
sumption, except such as arose from increased population
—for some years to come. He would assume the quan-
tity of sugar returned for home consumption during
those years at 240,000 tons of colonial and 50,000 tons
of foreign; and taking the highest duty under the Bill of
1846, and comparing it with the highest duty under the
Bill of 1848. he found that the loss on the first year's
revenue would be 165,0001.; on the second, 405,000/.; on

proper subject of inquiry to ask whether the colonists
had done their duty. He had had a good deal of con-
versation lately with gentlemen from Guiana, Trinidad,
and Jamaica, who told him that in Guiana such a thing
as a plough was unknown, there was no drainage, and,
in point of fact, everything was done in the rudest
possible manner. From Trinidad he had the most ex-
press information that sometimes hogsheads of sugar
were kept from the beach because the roads were im-
passable, although only for a distance of five miles.—
(llear, hear.) In fact, he was informed that, with the
finest soil and climate in the world, Trinidad was almost
wholly without roads.—(Hear, bear,) Then, in Ja-
maica: had the planters constructed the Jamaica Rail-
, way ?—(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, had it not been
begun and finished with funds supplied by men who re-
pudiated protection altogether?—(Hear, hear.) He now
came to their trade regulations, and being in trade him
self, he could speak with some confidence on this point
What were the trade arrangements in the colonies? In
the first place, the great majority of the estates were
admitted to be in the hands of mortgagees.—(No, no.)
It was a fact, and had been acknowledged.—(Hear.
hear.) What was the course with an estate which was
in the hands of mortgagees? The nominal owner had
no control; the mortgagee was the real owner, and what
the British Parliament was now asked to do, was to pay
off the mortgages, and allow the planter to work as if
he had never mortgaged.—(Hear, hear.) How could
business so carried on be profitable? The mortgagee
residing in England took care that the produce came
over to him in his ships, making such charges for freight,
brokerage, and commission, as he thought proper. Be-
sides, everything, required in the shape of stores, or ma-
chinery, went through his hands, and every one could
guess the terms on which such transactions were con-
ducted.—(Hear.) It had been complained that the West
Indies had no trade except with this country, the fact
being that they could not send to America, because the
mortgagees insisted on the produce coming to England.
Another evil attending this was, that the American ships
which brought provisions, not being able to get return
cargoes, took away nearly all the specie of the islands,
and paid it away in Cuba for cargoes of slave-grown
sugar.—(Hear, her.) On the subject of the impediments
which stood in the way of colonial success in trade, he

he third, 645,000 i.; on the fourth, 835,000 L; and on the

fifth, 935,000/. These were very different amounts from
10,0001. or 40,0001., ms stated by the Noble Lord and the
Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) He thought the Noble
Lord must have founded his calculation on the supposi-
tion that the fall or duty was on thesmaller quantity, and
not on the larger; whereas the great tall of duty was on
the colonial sugar, which was the larger quantity, the
loss upon which would commence from July in the pre-
sent year. The total loss he estimated at upward:, of
3,000,0001., against which any revenue arising
from increased consumption, consequent on in-

creased population, or greater power to consume
(which he hoped there would be), was not to be set,
inasmuch as that revenue would be obtained inde-

pendent of this Bill, and without this loss.—(Hear.)
And certainly, for a Chancellor of the Exchequer who
was at his wits' end for money—who had to bring for-

ward another budget before the session closed—(Hear,
hear)—and to state in what way—whether by imposing
an additional tax on real property or otherwise—he will
raise the money necessary for supplying the deficiency
in the revenue and carrying on the public service ; for
a Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Government to
which ho belonged under such circumstances to attempt
to tinker a measure passed only in 1846, and which had
already produced such admirable results to the com-
merce and to the revenue of the country, was a speci-
men of statesmanship he should have thought much too
extraordinary and absurd for the middle of the nine-
teenth century.—(Hear and a laugh.) But had the
Chancellor of the Exchequer considered that he was
not now legislating o❑ a matter of revenue, but for pro-
tection to the West India body. And protection being the
issue, he protested against the increase of duties the resolu-
tion proposed, and contended that it was a most un-
statesmanlike proceeding, and at :the same time most
unjust to those who were engaged in the sugar trade.
He bad letters from a gentleman stating that, trusting:to
the Act of 1846, and to the declaration of the Govern-
ment in May last that the duty of 18s. 6d. on foreign
sugar would commence from the sth of July, orders had
been sent out for sixty or eighty cargoes, and in some
cases vessels had been sent out in ballast to bring back
foreign sugar. He asked, was it consistent with the
dignity of the Government of this great country thus to
break faith, and probably to indict ruin on those who
had:trusted to their declarations ?—( ear.) Never before
had Parliament been called upon to take a step so com-
pletely in the dark, and so contrary to all experience, as
on this occasion. The Noble Lord had no reason to believe
now, any more than he had on the 30th of May, that the
measure would benefit the West Indian body. The
Hun. Member for Westbury—whom he had hitherto
looked up to as an authority, and at whose feet he had sat
as his Gamaliel—(A laugh)—but who now, contrary to
all his former opinions, advocated this measure—he was
sure had no faith in it.—(Hear, hear.) No Member on
the Treasury bench really believed that it would do good
to the West Indies, while they must be convinced that it
coulddo no good to the consumer or the revenue.—(Hear.)
On the other side of the House, and amongst the repre-
sentatives of the West India interest, not one had spoken
in favour of the measure; nor were there scarcely two
. .

tield in his hand a letter which he had received from a
Member of the Jamaica House of Assembly, and which
he would take leave to read to the House. The Hon.
Member proceeded to read the letter, the purport of which
was that the West Indians could not prosper until re-
lieved from the exactions of absentee mortgagees. That
in addition to other means by which they were plundered,
the mortgagee was at the same time a shipowner, and sent
out his ship to his planting attorney, with positive
orders to fill it from certain estates indicated. The attor-
ney then wrote to the overseers, who, perhaps, answered
that the canes were not ripe—in fact, that the number
which would make 100 hhds, of ripe would only make
60 at that moment. The attorney, however, fearing a
a supersedeas, was imperative, and canes were frequently
cut at eleven months, when at least fifteen would be ne-
cessary to ripen them properly. The writer stated that
he had frequently followed the sugar to the wharf, and
had seen the molasses dripping from the casks. Now,
on this alone, considering that the profit on rum as com-
pared with sugar was as one to two, the loss must be
enormous.—(Hear, hear.) The writer continued to
state that he had offered himself to ship sugars at
cheaper rates, but the general answer of the planter
was, that he must ship in the vessels of his mortgagee.
Indeed, sugar might be seen lying in the wharfs for
months together, and in one case a lot had lain for
five months to be shipped at last at a freight of ss.
per cwt., while several ships had come and gone
which would have taken them at 4±.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Bright) considered it would be a great blessing
if such burdens were removed, instead of proposing to
re-enact protective duties and increase the taxes on the
British people.—(Hear, hear.) He now came to a point
which had been alluded to by the Right Hon. Member
for Tamworth—he meant the extraordinary expenses of
the colonies. There was no doubt but that the colonists
had great and just cause of complaint on that score.—
(Hear, hear.) His correspondent before quoted informed
him that one great grievance of the colonists was the
enormous amount of taxation. Any memorial passed
by the House of Assembly in the direction of reform in
the expenditure was sure to be rejected by the Council,
the members of which, with one solitary exception, were
placemen. There was the Lord Bishop, with 3,0001. a
year ; the Chief Justice, 3,000/. ; the General com-
manding, 4,0001. ; and the Vice-Chancellor, 2,5001. ;
with several others of lesser amounts. Besides this
there was a Council fund of 6,0001., for the expendi-
ture of which the Council invariably refused to account.
Besides all this, the Governor (Sir Charles Grey) had
7,000/. a year, and the secretary 1,800/. He maintain d
that such a scale of expenditure was an intolerable
grievance on the colonists.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord the Member for Lynn had alleged that in conse-
quence of the reduction in the price of sugar several
large West India houses had fallen. Why, they were
insolvent before. They had departed altogether from
the regular course of trade, and the consequence was that
their estates would now pay only three or four shillings
in the pound. Was it to support houses of that descrip-
tion that Parliament was about so largely to increase the
taxation of the country?—(Hear, hear.) He was sorry
that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government
had again raised the much-vexed question of pro-
tection. He should recollect that in 1841 his Govern-
ment was broken up on that question, and
.that in
1846 that of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite
met a similar fate. Even so lately as that morning
the present cabinet of the Noble Lord was in articulo
mortis, and was only saved by the extreme unction of
fifteen votes, the givers of which differed entirely from
the Noble Lord on the principle of the question.—
(Hear, and laughter.) The fact was, and he deeply re-
gretied it, that this discussion had been carried on with-
out any reference to the interests of the people of this
country. The Noble Lord had raised the question of
protection again after he had himself buried it. If he
had been the Noble Lord he would have demanded the
Bill of 1846 to the last on its results, for never had be-
neficial results flowed more rapidly than upon the pass-
ing of the Bill of 1846.—(Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—I stated that.
Mr. BRIGHT—The result had been equally favour-
able as regarded consumption and revenue. He
would take three periods of eight months each; one
before and the other two after the passing of the
Bill of 1846. The whole consumption was—la the
first eight months, 3,550,000 cwt.; in the second
eight months, 4,349,000 cwt.; in the third eight months,
4,235,000 cwt. Showing an increase of the second
period over the first of 795,000 cwts., and of the third
over the first of 680,000 cwts. With regard to revenue,
equally favourable results had accrued. The amount of
revenue received was—ln the first eight months,
2,516,0001.; in the second eight months, 3,405,0001.; in
the third eight months, 3,021,0001. So that the revenue
gained nearly a million.—(Hear, hear.) He disapproved
of the proposal for immigration, as calculated to cheapen
labour unduly as against the coloured population of the
West Indies, and to demoralise them by introducing
amongst them the vices of the African tribes. There
was another point in considering this part of the ques-
tion which must not be lost sight of. More than one-
half of the sugar imported was not the produce of those
colonies where there was a deficiency of labour. From
Barbadoes, the Mauritius, and the East Indies, where
labour was abundant, we imported 163,000 tons,
leaving only 137,000 as coming from those West
India colonies which were complaining of want of
labour. Yet by the proposition of the Government
this amount of protection was to be given not only to
those colonies where there was an insufficient supply
of labour and consequent distress, but to those also
where labour was plentiful, and where there was no
necessity for the protection. Why, was ever a more
monstrous proposition put forward ? It was in effect
that because one man alleged that there was a debt due
to him, therefore not only should
.he be paid, but that
compensation should be awarded to all who are related
to him.—(Hear.) If any thing were due to the West
India colonies, let them send in their account of what
there was to pay, and let it be paid and done with ;
but let not this country be called upon to pay not only
those who considered they had claims against us, but
those who had no claims whatever.—(An Hon. Member:
" You would never get a receipt in full.") He agreed
with his Hon. Friend that the West India body would
never give a receipt in full. They were like Oliver
Twist, always asking for "pore, more." And for the
concession which was now about to be made would here-
after be made the ground for new demands. It would be
urged hereafter—" You admitted by your measure of
1848 that the settlement of 1846 was no settle-
ment, there is still something more due to us,"—
and they would continue to make new claims
until they were in a state of prosperity, which
under the protective system they would never be.
—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member for West-
bury had put forward a theory, or rather two theories—
one in the House and the other out of doors—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh)—the one in the House being that full
compensation would be obtained for any increase in
price by the fall of duty to 103. a cwt. He admitted
that as a general rule low duties were advantageous to
the revenue to a certain extent, and to the consumer
altogether ; but out of doors the Honourable Gentleman
had another theory, which was that the highest duty
regulated the price, and that the price regulated the con-
sumption.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Wilson.) But by
the proposition of the Government it would not be until
the year 1852 that the consumer would be in any better
position, for any reduction of the duty on colonial sugar
could not have the effect, according to the Hon. Mem-
ber's own theory that the highest duty regulated price,
until the lowest duty on foreign sugar came into opera-
tion.T(E3ear.) But again, as to any advantage result-
ing to the consumer as accompanying this proposition, it

opinions agreed as to the nature of the relief Wtich
the West India colonies really required; and the Right
Honourable Baronet the Member for Tam worth had dis-

tinctly given it as his conviction that protection would
be injurious rather than advantageous to them, and, that
being his view, he took it that the Right Hon. Baronet
would vote with him against the Government proposal.
—(Hear, and a laugh.) The Noble Lord had said
that all that was required was capital: but with this
system of legislation—a fiscal measure in 1846, another
in 1848, and another which would be clamoured for three
months hence—what encouragement was there for the
investment of capital? If there was one thing which
capital shunned more than another, it was uncertainty.
The Noble Lord had told them that immigration had
faileil; yet he now proposed a grant of 500,0001. to pro-
mote immigration. Again, the Noble Lord said that a
10s. protection would raise the wages of labour and in-
crease the evil now complained of; but if 10s. would do
it, surely 7s. would do it to a corresponding degree.—
(Hear, hear.) Why did not the Noble Lord leave
the Protectionists to fight out their battle on the
question of protection? If the Noble Lord was still a
free, trader, if he still professed the doctrines of Adam
Smith, and the published doctrines of the Hon. Member
for Westbury—(Hear, hear)—why did he not adhere to
them? He knew not on which side to look for the most
conclusive arguments against the Government measure.
It was repudiated by those for whose benefit it was
brought forward; all parties condemned it, and there
were hardly two opinions agreed on the question it was
brought forward to meet. He objected to the measure
as being a departure from the settlement of 1846, and
as being calculated to re-open other questions which
were determined at that time.—(Hear.) Let the prin-
ciple of free trade be sound or not, it was adopted in
1846 as to sugar, corn, and other articles, and the de-
cision then come to was in accordance with the opinion
of the vast majority of the people of this country. Let
that principle have that fair trial which even its oppo-
nents admitted it ought to have.—(Hear.) The Noble
Lord was now about to disturb that principle, as re-
garded sugar, and before long he might be called upon
to re-open it to another article.—(" Hear, hear," from
Mr. Cayley.) The Honourable Member for the North
Biding of Yorkshire cheered when he (Mr. Bright) said
that corn would be the next article on which they would
be called on to retrace their steps. He hoped, however,
the Noble Lord would be more firm with regard to corn
than he was with regard to sugar—if he was not, he
doubted whether he would escape even by a majority of
15.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The Noble Lord was
without blame to himself at the head of a Government
whch was in an unfortunate position in regard to finance,
and it was his duty to consider how he would make up
the present deficiency before he increased it. That be
had done that which would sacrifice revenue, be injurious
to the sugar consumer of this country—that which the
West Indians themselves repudiated, and which the
Committee of the House did not recommend—that which
would unsettle a great settlement, was, be thought,
matter of blame to the Noble Lord and his Government.
Standing by the Bill of 1846, they might have defied
any combination of mistaken philanthropy on the one
side, and of monopoly on the other. As it was, they
had given to their opponents an advantage they would
not recover; awl as he thought the measure alike per-
nicious to this country and the West Indies, he would
move as an amendment, " That it was not desirable to
make any alteration in the sugar duties of 1846."
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. BERKELEY said that in rising to oppose
the amendment of the Honourable Member for Man-
chester, he must say a few words in defence of the
planters of the West Indies, whose character had been
arraigned by that Honourable Member. He thought
this attack was most unfair. The Hon. Member for
Manchester was in the habit of running a tilt at almost
every measure, whether he understood its intricacies or
not. In the course of a conversation which they had
had in Committee, (as was • understood) that Hon.
Gentleman had told him (Mr. G. Berkeley) that when
he was made a Legislalor there was a very good game-
keeper spoilt.—(Great laughter.) He (Mr. G. Ber-
keley) rejoined—" Do you believe everything that the
Hon. Member fur the West Riding(Mr. Cobden) says?"
He said, " I do most implicitly." " Will you," he (Mr.
Berkeley) asked, " pin your faith to any opinion which
that Hon.. Member entertains ?" The reply was, " I
wilt" "Then," said he (Mr. Berkeley) "that lion. Friend
of yours tells me that so pugnacious are your qualities,
that he has told you that if you were not a Quaker
you would be a prizefighter."—(Shouts of laughter.)
He would now state to the House his own position as a
West India proprietor. He possessed six estates in
British Guiana, and from the time of negro emancipa-
tion up to that hour ho bad had no return. They
were, unfortunately, under the operation of the Dutch
law. If he neglected to keep in repair a road or bridge,
it was within the province of the local government to do
what was required, and to sell a property which had
originally cost 100,0001. for the sum of 101., if that were
the amount expended. In Guiana it was totally impos-
sible to compel the labourer to work ; he went either
to the bush or to an abandoned estate, and there was no
police to prevent him from landing and stealing the few
plantings which were raised. He believed that, without
protection, 500,0001. would be like money thrown into
the sea. As regarded the compensation granted for eman-
cipation, he would ask whether that could be adequate,
when having received 14,000/. as his share, he had not
since received a fraction of his former income?—(Hear.)
There was no person in so difficult and so hard a posi-
tion. Ho would read to the House a letter which he had
received from his agent in British Guiana, dated last
May. It was in answer to a letter of his own, wherein
he asked him about the condition of his estate. lie said,
" Sir,—l am in receipt of your favour of the 27th of
February, and I am sorry I am sot able to realise your
wishes for better news. Truly has Mr. Barkly described
the state of your once splendid property as being in a
dreadfully neglected state. The like description would
answer fully one-half of the colony; and actually in the
immediate neighbourhood of George Town itself, aban-
doned estates are fast becoming general, cultivated ones
being rapidly given up. The colony is certainly in a
weak condition, so that many other properties must be
added to the list wherein your name occupies so promi-
nent a place—of once wealthy estates ruined by crude
legislation." The Hun. Member for Manchester had
stated that the planter had never been satisfied since he
came to the House. Upon his word, he thought they
had very little reason to be satisfied, still less to be sa-
tisfied with him now; for at the moment when all in-
terests were deeply involved, when they were endea-
vouring to raise themselves out of the fatal slip—at the
time the House endeavoured to afford some remedy—
the Hon. Member jumped up, and endeavoured to cut
across, and to prevent any probability of the good being
carried out. They were not allowed to know what he

was likely to do; they were told that what was pro-
posed could not do g,od. It was said that Providence
was against the planters, by another, that they were
ruined by their own extravagance. He was not aware
of any panicular extravagance which had brought dis-
tress on a single person with whom ho was acquainted.
Fre was thoroughly aware of the deep distress, but was
not aware that the parties could nut have retrieved them-
selves under present circumstances. He was confident
that the emancipation which had taken place had been
the foundation of their ruin. Hon. Members had stated

that the planters opposed immigration, because the im
migrants were contaminated by association; as if it
was by their own neglect that the planters lost their ser-
vices. What happened when he attempted to make the
last crop of sugar? Labourers, not wanting work,came
to his attorney and said, " when the cane is ripe, if you
don't give something enormous we will not get in the
crop." He ventured to make the advance. 'Ten they
came and said, "if you don't give another bonus you
may make the sugar yourself." Of course he could not
comply with that, and the whole pr 'perty was ruined.
He asked, not only for protection, but for more stringent
laws against vagrants than they had at present. He
asked the House, not only for himself, but fur v,e rest
of the proprietors, just once only to try full and free
immigration. No place was so fit to try the experi-
ment as the Mauritius or Berbice, as the nearest Bri-

tish port to the African free coast. They could have got
the free immigration of Kroomen if every stumbling
block had not been thrown in the way. Instead

(---)f letting them come the shortest way possible, they
insisted they shou'd go to Sierra Leone, and embark
thence; and by such an act entailed a long sea voyage.
When they came to sea, they had to go a voyage again,
and then travel through tribes hostile to them, who
robbed them of all the savings they had. He had pressed
upon the Noble Lord long ago, that in his own colony
the chief thing they wanted was immigration. Now, if
they gave immigration, and did not accompany it with
a greater boon, they did not effect one atom of good.
The Hon. Member for Tamworth entertained an opinion

that slavery would be put down by the increase of labour.
What were they to do during the time that was taking
place? During the time they were getting labour to-
gether and making it available, the whole colonies would
be lost. He trusted the House would reject the measure

of the Hon. Member for Manchester, and that the next

packet which went to these unfortunate colonies would
be the bearer of better news than the last. Ile was cer-
tain that they needed the most ample protection.
Mr. BA.GSHA WE also opposed the amendment.
When the question before the House should be disposed
of, it was his intention to submit a proposition which
would not be, like all those yet made, transitory in its
effect, but permanent. His motion would be that a per-
petual duty of ss. per cwt. be put on all foreign sugars,
without distinction, imported into this country. No one
would then complain of being taken by surprise; and if
the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn would give his
support to that proposition, it would redound to his
eternal honour.—(Laughter.)
Mr. TOLLEMACHE having made some explana-
tions of the evidence he gave oefore the Committee,
said that he conceived that excessive protection would
be not only unjust to the people of this
country by making prices high, but injurious to
every class connected with the West Indies. At
the same time, as free labour never could compete with
slave labour, some protection was necessary. He pos-
sessed five estates in one of those is!ands. He had suc-
ceeded in reducing considerably the cost of production,
and he belived it would be reduced still further.—(Hear,
hear.) He was prepared to run some risk, and even to
sustain a loss, rather than desert the people living on
those estates, which had been in the possession of his
family for centuries.—(Hear, hear.) In some instances
a protection of 7s. would be sufficient, but, taking the
West Indies as a whole, he thought it should be los.
for a certain time, say two years, then Bs., and then 65.,
where it should remain as long as slave labour existed.
He bad felt it his duty to vote for the amendment of
the lion. Member for Droitwich, which he did with re-
gret, and he had now only to hope that the Government
would reconsider the subject.
The CHANCELLOR o! the EXCHEQUER said

that he concurred in a great part of the speech and in
most of the principles uttered by the lion. Member for
Manchester; but circumstances sometimes rendered ne-
ce,sary the modification of a principle which he thought
might be done without any sacrifice or dereliction of it.
In this case they were passing from protection to free
trade, and they proposed a temporary compromise be-
tween them, softening the evils which would arise from
an abrupt change. The Hon. Gentleman said, and
truly, that ho (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) de-
clared last February that the Bill of 1846 ought not
to be departed from. But he should be ut-
terly deaf to all information if he maintained
that ot,inion merely fur consistency sake, and
in the face of the evidence of the Committee and the
change of circumstances that had since taken place.
Under those circumstances he considered that the Go-
vernment were bound to make an attempt to check the
destruction of property which was threatened from utter
want of credit. If they gave protection they would
have interfered with that process which was now going
on in the West Indies for reducing the cost of produc-
tion by reducing the price of wages; and, in departing
from the Bill of 1846, the Government must have been
influenced by very strong reasons—it being a Bill
which the lion. Gentleman admitted to have been
most successful as regarded the revenue and the con-
sumer, and of which the Government might therefore be
naturally proud. Now, it was of the first importance to
know how the present proposition of the Government
would affect the revenue. It would doubtless create
risk of loss, but he did not think of much loss. lie
could not admit that it would even be as great, nor any-
thing like as great, as the loss that would be sustained
by the 103. differential duty suggested by the Noble Lord
the Member for Lynn. The proposal of the Govern-
ment would give a first loss of 240,0001., but after-
wards it would be made up by increased consumption,
while that of the Noble Lord would cause a loss of
960,000/. The first loss under the Government propo-
sition would arise from the reduction of colonial duty
from 14s. to 135., and, he did not look to any increased
consumption to make good that loss in the first year.
The question then was what probable increased consump-
tion would there be in the course of the next year, and
he estimated it at from 15,000 to 20,000 tons. The year
1847 was clearly exceptional, owing to the imports being
greatly stimulated by the admission of sugar in distil-
leries. It was probable the consumption of next year
would be 309,000 or 310,000 tons. The consumption
had increased from 193,000 tons in 1842, to 288,900 in
1847, being about 50 per cent.; and in the last four
years the sugar imported into Ireland had increased
from 362,000 to about 500,000 cwt., not-
withstanding the distress Which had prevailed
in that country. Taking the consumption at
225,000 tons of colonial, and 85,000 of foreign sugar,
there would thence arise a revenue of 4,625,0001, being
an increase of 284,000/. It was true the amount of
revenue would depend on the proportionate increase of
foreign sad colonial sugar; if the increase were in the
proportion of 15,000 tons foreign to 5,000 tons colonial,
there would be a loss of revenue of 55,0001. But the
probability was that it would not exceed 45,0001.; per-
haps there would be no loss at all. This referred to the
first year only; in future years he confidently looked for
an increase ; for as the increasing reduction of duty on
foreign sugars would stimulate the consumption, au in-
creased revenue would be the consequence. As much
reference had been made to the prospects of the revenue,
and the probability of a loss, he thought it his duty,
before asking the House to consent to a resolution
which might involve some loss, to give a general view of
how the Government anticipated that that would be met.
Already a deficiency of about 2,000,0001. had been
estimated on the current year ; the House had refused
to entertain a proposition for making up that deficiency
by an increase of taxation ; and the matter had ever
since occupied the serious attention of the Government.
So far, the revenue of the current year had produced
quite as much as could have been anticipated. In spite
of the calamities of last year, so sound was the system
of our finances, that the income of the year 1847-48 was
actually higher than that of 1845 46, after the great re-
ductions in duty which had been made by the late Go-
vernment. Of course it was impossible to compare the
last year with any year preceding 1845-6, the circum-
stances and the amount of taxation being so different.
The expenditure proposed was far below that of the last
or the preceding year. Two Committees had been ap-
pointed to investigate this subject ; but neither he nor
any Member of the Government supposed that they
thereby shifted th© responsibility from their
own shoulders. He had stated at the time
that ho coneeived it would be impossible
to make any large reduction either in
the amount of the regular expenditure, or in the outlay
for works in progress. The House was already in pos-
session of the amount of reduction which they bad been
able to effect in the miscellaneous estimates. It had
been estimated that the probable charge would be
4,006,000/.; the items laid on the table amounted to
3,777,000/.; being a reduction of 230,000/. With regard
to the army, the efficiency of the service was so im-
portant a consideration at this moment, that it was im-
possible to make any reduction in those estimates. Tho
House had decided by a large majority that it was not
possible to effect any such reduction. The Government
had abandoned the intention of proposing an ad-
ditional vote for the militia, whereby an outlay of
150,000/. would be avoided. lie had gone through
the navy and ordnance estimates with the First Lord
of the Admiralty, and they 'had satisfied themselves
that, without in any degree impairing the efficiency
of these services, a reduction on the year of 300,0001.
might easily be effected.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
His Hon. Friend the Secretary to the Admiralty bad
stated that a much larger reduction might be expected
in the ensuing year; but with the existing contracts it
was impossible to carry the reduction in the present year
beyond what he had stated. The result of this was to
reduce the whole expenditure by 685,000/. To effect
this it might be necessary in some cases to postpone
works which, under other circumstances, it might have
been desirable to accomplish in the present year. He
was in hopes that further reductions might be effected
within the year; but he thought it right to state only
those of which he was confident. He was anxious to
have postponed his statement to a later period of the
session, when he might have been in a condition to form
a more correct judgment as to the probable amount which
the revenue would yield. On this head, however, he
would afford some information. 0 wing mainly to the
exceeding fine crop of barley of last year, the quality of
which was better almost than was ever known, malting
had been carried on to a much greater extent during
the year, and the consequent increase in the excise duties
amounted to a very considerable sum.—(Hear, hear.)
On the other hand, other sources of revenue were not
quite so productive as he bad anticipated; but, upon the
whole, after consulting with the chairman of the revenue
board, he found himself warranted in anticipating an in-
crease of revenue beyond what he had stated in February,
of 350,000/. (Hear, hear.) He left out of consideration
all receipts] from corn; it was utterly impossible to say

what they might be; but it would be so much in addi- i the House would agree to their sitting on this day
tion to what ho had stated. lie also anticipated relief (Saturdaq—(Oh, Oh.)
from another source—the appropriations in aid, which I Mr. M. GIBSON apprehended that they could not be
had usually been applied only to the service of the year sitting in aCr mmittee of Ways and Melees, as, such a
succeeding that in which they arose. They had hitherto Committee could Lot sit on any days hut Monday,
been prevented from applying these sums in the current Wednesday, and Friday. Yet it was usual to move re-
year, by the supposition that an Act of Parliament would solutions on the sugar duties in Committee of Ways
be necessary for the purpose; but it had turned out that and Means. •
the Act which had rendered their"application in the cur- Lord J. RUSSELL said he had asked the opinion of
rent year impossible, had been indirectly repea,•ed some the Speaker on the übject, and his opinion was, that re-
years ago; and there was therefore no longer any ob- solutiouson the sugar dutiee should be moved ire (awn mittea
stack. He had accordingly directed that the sums pro- of Ways arid Means it they were annual duties; but as the
duced by the sales of old stores and other matters, well Act of 1846 had made them permanent, it was more
known as " appropriations in aid," should be paid conformable with the rules of the House to move tehe re•
directly into the exchequer; and the receipt from that solutions in a general Committee of the whole 11. °use.
source in the present year would be applicable to the He did net think he could have better authority.
service of the present year. Its average produce was Mr. GIBSON was satisfied on that point, but as the
about half a million; last year it was only 430,0001. question moved by his Honourable Friend (Mr. Briea.'t)
That, of course, was only a temporary source of in- was a most important one, he thought it but fair the t
come; but it might be clearly made applicable to the those who le presented the manufacturing interest, are.'
service of the present year. Tee result' was, a diminu- held free- trade opinions, should obtain further time fear
tion of the probable excess of expenditure over income discussion. As yet he heard no arguments to justiae
by 1,535.0001.; and therefore, instead of that excess any interference with the Act of 1846.—(Hear, hear.)l
being two millions, it would he under half a million.— His Hon. Friend (Mr. Mowatt) did not therefore require
(Hear, hear.) He had thought it right that the House any apology for moving the adjournment.
should be in possession of this information, for he was Colonel 6IBTHORY said that the Government were
aware that out of the House, as well as in it, alone to blame for not introducing the question at an
great anxiety had been felt on the supposi- earlier period of the session.— (Hear, hear.) What would
don that there would be a deficiency on the tbe Noble Lord opposite have done if a Jew had a soot
year's revenue of two millions. At a later period it in that House?—(Laughter, and hear, hear.)
might be his duty to recur to this subject ; but he had After a few words from Sir J. PAKINGTON and lir.
felt that he could not ask the House to consent to the MOWATT,
resolutions he had proposed without putting. them in • Mr. COBDEN said that the present was a free-trade
possession of the statement he hail now made, and question, and us the able arguments of his Hon. Friend
which he did with great pleasure, inasmuch as the pros- (Mr. Bright) had not been answered, but merely met by
pact was crtainly much more promising than many a financial statement of the Right lion. Gentleman,.
Hon. Gentlemen :night suppose. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which was very gra-
Mr. HASTIE said the Hon. Member for Manchester tifying in some respects, it was but fair and right that
had forgotten to state that the cotton manufacturers of a question in which the public bad so much interest
Manchester and Glasgow had for a series of years en- should be fully discussed.—(Hear, hear.)
joyed a protection of 100 per cent. against the maaufae- Lord J. RUSSELL said that as the able speech elf
turers of India, until they were enabled to get 'cheap the lion. Member for Manchester had not been ana
cotton from America. At one period cotton manufac- swered he thought the Hon. Member for the West Rid-
tures to the amount of two millions sterling a ere ex• inn ought to be satisfied with that, without making
ported from India, giving employment to vast numbers another speech in support of it.—(Laughter.)
of individuals ; but this trade had been destroyed by the Mr. COBDEN said the question was one of pri,tl-
- protection given to our home manufactures. That ciple, and he thought it ought to be discussed on its
protection had continued, in a modified form, down to merits.
1844 ; and even now there was a heavy duty on some After a few words from Mr. M. GIBSON,
of the productions of India. If the House looked at Mr. BRIGHT said it was not at all necessary that
the returns of exports from Great Britain during the the measure should pass before the sth of July ; andi
last seven years they might form some idea of the un- seeing that Gentlemen opposite had had two debates.
portance of our colonies. We had sent to the and two divisions, he thought it hard that the advocates
West Indies every year no less than 2,700,0001. worth of free trade should be shut out from discussion by
of goods, and at least one-half of that expert must be ex- forcing the present debate to a conclusion.
petted to cease if we withdrew protection. It was a The gallery was cleared, when, as we were afterwards
curious fact that these exports had increased since the informed, the motion for adjournment was withdrawn,
Emancipation Act, although the produce of the West and a division taken on the main question. The num-
Indies had decreased. Ile attributed this to the effect of bars were—
the labourer being paid wages, and the social condition For the resolution 302
of the negro having consequently improved. He felt Against it
thoroughly convinced in his own mind teat the proposi- Majority —266
sition of her Majesty's Government would do much to After a short discussion,
relieve the planter and to increase our exports by raising The CIIAIRMAN reported progress. Report to be
still more the condition of the iregro. lie should, there- received on aionday next, it being understood that the,
fore, give it his support. further discussion of the question should be concluded
' Mr. CARDWELL came down to-night curious to see on that evening.
hew the Chancellor of the Exchequer would defend him- PARLIAMENTARY ELECTORS BILL.
self against the attack of his lion. Friend the Member Sir DE L. EVANS having moved the reports on this
for Manchester. The Right Hon. Gentleman had scarcely Bill,
gratified his curiosity. But he had made a speech infi- Mr. FORBES moved that the House do adjourn, ob-
nitely more interesting than any Parliamentary repartee jetting to proceed with the measure at so late an hour.
into which he might have entered. The Right Hun. Colonel SIBTUORP seconded the amendment, which
Gentleman bad given them a second budget—(Laughter) was supported by Colonel Conolly, Mr. Henley, and
—yes, but he had admitted frankly that his second other lion. Gentlemen.
budget was not .satisfactory, and he had very consider- Captain PECHELL supported the original motion.
lady promised them a third. He thought they had great After s ime conversation the report was postponed
cause to congratulate them selves en the reluctance to re- till Monday next, and the House adjourned at a Quar-
place the alleged two millions by increased taxation at a ter past One.
time when it would have been peculiarly heavy to bear,
for without any exertion on their part no less than
1,500,000/. of the amount had disappeared.—(Cheers.)
He slid not know that they bad very much otherwise to
congratulate themselves upon in the budget now before
them. The miscellaneous estimates appeared to be as
' high as they ever were in previous years, though they
were much below the amount originally proposed this
year. Then, as to the appropriations in aid—it did not
certainly a.peear to him that the new arrangement pro-
posed would prove a saving, for it was only, in point of
fact, taking money out of one column and putting it
into another. Neither did it appear to him that
they had much subject for consolation in the arrange-
ment proposed with regard to these sugar duties.
The Noble Lard, the first Minister, told them last
night that the first year's loss would not be above
10000/. In the last year we consumed 288,000 tons
of sugar, of which 24,000 was British plantation.
Upon each of these tons there was to be a diminu-
tion of 11. But was there to be no loss on the foreign
sugar ? If their measure did anything at all, surely it
would displace a portion of the foreign sugar. Each
ton so displaced would involve a loss of 71. per ton, and
if they took a quarter only of the 48,000, they would
have a hiss of nearly 80,000/. to be added to the 240,0001.
before computed. There was, be it recollected, nothing
in the consumption to compensate for this loss. In the
second year the loss would be nearly double. The
Right Hon. Gentleman appeared to found a portion of
his anticipations of increased revenue upon the large
quantity of barley to be converted into malt, but though
this might benefit the farmer and the excise, it was not
shown how it would benefit the customs, which branch of
the revenue had more immediate relation to the subject
under discussion. It was said by the lion. Member for
Manchester and others that the Act of 1846 had not
proved to have aggravated the slave trade, whereas
all the evidence went directly and distinctly to establish
that it had been productive of this effect. Government
officers themselves had shown that the almost immediate
consequence of the Act of 1846 had been to raise the
money value of slaves 15 per cent. in Cuba ; it was
stated that the passing of that measure had been cele-
brated as a sort of jubilee; from Jamaica the Govern-
ment Commissioners reported the opinion that if free-
trade principles were at once applied to slave-labour
produce, more crimes would be committed in the slave
trade, and more oppressions exercised upon the slaves,
than had ever before been heard of. Captain Burgess
stated, upon the information of various Spanish
and Portuguese slave dealers, that the increase
of late in the slave trade had been solely occa-
sioned by the freer introduction into England of slave-
grown sugar, while the Hon. Member fur Cheshire had
shown that from the same cause, slavery, which had
been altogether dying away in Cuba, had resumed new
life there.—(Hear, hear.) He could have no hesitation
in recording his vote against the motion of the Hon.
Member for Manchester. He admitted that protection
was in itself and in its nature an unsatisfactory remedy,
but he felt, at the same time, that we could not substi
tute free labour for slave labour in our West India colo-
nies without affording those colonies something in the
character of temporary protection. Without this aid it
would be impossible for the planters to complete the
glorious task which, at so great a sacrifice, we had com-
menced.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord NUGENT and Mr. WILSON rose at the same time
to address the Committee. There were general cries for
the Noble Lord, but Mr. Wi son remaining on his legs
also, titter c infusion prevailed throughout the House for
full five minutes. At length
Mr. BERNAL, who had been ineffectually demand-
ing order, said, I must put it to the Committee—does
the Committee wish me to leave this chair? If so, I
will leave it at once; but so long as I have the honour
to fill it—(Hear, hear)—l will to the utmost of my
power maintain order.—(Hear, hear.) I call upon Mr.
Wilson.
Mr. WILSON said he was sure the Committee would
give him au impartial hearing, whatever might be their
opinions upon the mode in wnich the commerce of the
country should be conducted. lie thought that the
evidence taken before the Committee showed that there
were exceptionable considerations from applying to these
colonies the general principle which he entertained with
regard to commercial policy, and he thought it would be
unwise to apply strictly to the West Indies the pro-
visions of the Act of 1846. In the resolutions which
he proposed to the Committee, he recognised
the distress which existed in these colonies, and
the principle of affording them relief. He thought,
then, that the case required immediate consideration,
and that the relief should be instantaneous, and effected
with the least possible loss to the revenue. By the plan
now proposed they would reduce the duty by Is. 6d. per
cwt. every year, upon the principle of the Act of 1846.
This with the least possible loss to the revenue and to
the commerce, would give relief to the colonists. These
were three great important objects to attain. They
should take the measure as a whole in affording perma-
nent relief to the West Indies with the least loss to this
country. If in the first years the commerce would not
be materially injured, and in the latter years benefited,
it may be assumed that on the whole the consumer
would be benefited by the measure of the Government,
which was best calculated to effect the three objects of
protecting the revenue, the commerce, and the colonist.
The Honourable Member sat down amid loud cries of
" Divide."
Lord NUGENT said that the statements of the Noble
Lord (J. Russell), and the arguments urged in support
of his propositions, had only confirmed him in his views
of the Act of 1846; and he was therefore resolved to
vote against the amendment of the Hon. Member for
Manchester. He should also give his cordial vote, in.all
its stages, against what he considered to be a feeble, a
faithless, and, in its tendency, a wicked measure. Eng-
land had a sacred duty to perform—which was to re-
nounce all commerce and communion with the men
whose pursuits were those of piracy and murder, and
whose merchandise was produced by the most cruel and
barbarous proceedings. He did not think that the prin-
ciples of free trade, rightly understood, had anything to
do with the question before the House. He had yet to
learn that it was a part of the principle of free trade to
traffic with the dealers in stolen property. If it was,
why did they abolish the slave trade ? But it was
said that as they took other produce the labour
of slaves, tbey were justified also in taking the sugar
produced by them. They were obliged to take those
other articles from necessity. But moreover, it was no
valid argument because they took some articles that they
should also take sugar which was produced by the most
severe labour.—(Hear, hear.) He was afraid that a
compulsory system of emigration would entirely destroy
all the efforts they had hitherto made to put down the
slave trade. These were the reasons which induced him
to give a Protectionist vote whilst he admitted, as much
as any man, the universality of the principle of free
trade. He was not for commercial protection, but he
was for moral protection.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MOWATT moved 'that the Chairman do report
progress and ask leave to sit again on Monday.
Lord J. RUSSELL begged of Hon. Gentlemen to
recollect the position in which the question stood. On
the sth of July there would be a further alteration of
the sugar duties under the Act of 1846, so that it was
necessaay they should come to a speedy decision. It
the lion. Gentleman persisted in his motion he hoped

RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS.
LIVERPOOL, JUNE 30.
STOCK Excitaxoft.—We have had a considerable im-
provement in to-day's market, occasioned by an increase of
orders. The sales are—Lancashire and Yorkshire, Fifths
(late West Riding Union), 765. 3d. dis.—London and North-
Western, 120 c- —Ditto, New Quarters, its. 3d. p.—Man-
chester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, 10/. Preference, p.—
Midland Stock, 10014 c.—Ditto, New Halves, 6% dis.—Ditto
(Birmingham and Derby), 74 c.—Newca -tle and Carlisle,
Io7—North Staffordshire, 2% dis.—Shrewsbury and Here-
ford, '2l. is. 3d. dis.—South-Eastern and Dover, 23% c.—
Ditto, No. 1, £O4 dis--Ditto, No. '2, dis.—Ditto, No. 3.
9 dis.—Ditto. No. 4, Thirds, 3 dis.—York, Newcastle, and
Berwick, G. N. E., p.
MANUHESTER, JUNE 30.
STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Lancashire and York-
shire, Fifths, 1% dis.—Ditto (West Riding Union), 3 15-16
dis.—Ditto, Preference, 6 per cent., 3-16 p.—London and.
North-Western, New Quarters, 1/4 p.—Manchester, Sheffield,
and Lincolnshire, Quarters, No. 1, 51% dis.—Ditto (Sheffield
and Lincolnshire), 10 dis.—North Staffordshire, 2 13-16 dia.
—South-Eastern and Dover, No. 4, Thirds, 2 13-16 dis.

EADVERTISEMENT.J—STowE.—We are requested
to state that the arrangements for the sale of the effects
at Stowe are in an advanced state, and that full parti-
culars will appear early in next week.
The Supplement to Burke's History of the
Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland, is pub-
lished this day by Mr. Colburn, and may be had of all
booksellers. This Supplement contains The History
and Genealogy of 500 additional Families, with refer-
ences to upwards of 10,000 persons connected with
them, and new particulars respecting the Families com-
prised in the first two volumes. Also just published,
" Burke's Peerage and Baronetage " for 1848, New
Edition revised throughout to the present time from the
personal communications of the nobility, &c., in one
volume, with 1,500 Engravings of Arms,
[ADVERTISEMENT.]—THE GREAT POPULARITY Or
HOLLOWAY'S OINTMENT AND PILLS IN THE WEST IN-
DIES IN THE CURE OF ALL SKIN DISEASES.—A young
gentleman, residing in St. Kitt's, was afflicted with a
most distressing skin disease, termed " the Shingles."
He had the best medical advice that could be obtained in

the island, but finding that he derived no benefit from
their treatment, he determined on having recourse to
Holloway's Ointment and Pills, which had a most grati-
fying effect, for in a very limited period these invaluable
remedies completely cured him. Mr. T. C. Cable, of St.
Kitt's, vouches for the accuracy of this statement.—Sold
by all druggists, a❑d at Professor Holloway's establish-
ment, 244, Strand, London.
CONSECRATION OP ST. AUGUSTUS COLLEGE, CAN-
TERBURY.---CANTERBURY,CAN-
THURSDAY.—The consecra-
tion of the new College of St. Augustus, which is ex-
pected to form a new era in the missionary operations of
the Church, took place this afternoon. The ceremony
was graced by a large number of the aristocracy,
amongst whom were the Earl of Powis, Lord Nelso❑,
the Earl of March, Mr. Justice Coleridge, Mr. Justice
Patteson, Mr. Baron Alderson, the Archbishop of Can-
terbury, the Bishop of London, the Bishop of Lichfield,
the Bishop of Oxford, the Bishop of Fredericton, the
Bishop of Brechin (Scotland), Bishop Coleridge, the
Deans of Canterbury, Hereford, Chichester, Norwich,
and Bangor, Arch/eacons Thorpe, Harrison, and Crofts.
There were upwards of 1,000 clergymen present.
NARROW ESCAPE FROM PtoSONING.—On

day last a labourer employed on the railway tttN;;;;1,
near Stowmarket, ti eling very thirsty, and perceiving
near the spot where he was working a bottle lying on
the ground, which had been put there by a fallow-work- a
man, and imagining it contained beer, he resolved to
quench his thirst, and took a hearty draught of its con-
tents before he discovered the mistake he had made,
which, unfortunately, instead of beer, turned out to be
a bottle of horse oils, for the use of the horses employed
by the contractors. The man suffered severely from the
powerful nature of the oils, but by administering proper
remedies he is now likely to recover.
TILE SNAKE AND THE EEL.—As Mr. Matthew
Lloyd, a well-known angler, was plying his craft on the
river Gwrfai, near Glanrafon, one day last week, his
progress was arrested on seeing a snake stretched across
a bridge which he was attempting to pass. He retreated
a few paces, and snatching up a stone from the road,
threw it at the unwelcome visitor, knocking it into the
river, but, singular to say, the reptile had no sooner
reached the mountain stream purling below, than the
jaws of a very large eel, measuring between two and
three feet in length, received it, and it was no more seen.
Cantu, von Herald.

On the 22d ult., at Dinan, France, the wife of W. G. Pitt
Esq., of a son.
At Cheltenham, the lady of J. G. Baker, Esq., of a son.
On the 25th ult., at Edinburgh, Mrs. W. Crosley, of a
daughter.

0-u the 25th ult., at Canonbury-park-villas, Islington, pre-
maturely, the wife of W. B. Gill, Esq., of a son.
On the 27th ult., at Oxton, Notts, the lady of H. Sher-
brooke, Esq., of a daughter.
On the 29th ult., at Tottenham, Mrs. Arthur 0. Miller,
of a son.