The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-24 00:00:00

to the opinion expressed by the Right Hon. Baronet,
• °had iust addressed the Committee, that by attempt-
lelfa de.fine the term they would only involve it in fresh.
e cocitifies. He considered, therefore, that the better
h°B.l4fse would be to allow the same word to be used as
W form _
erly b,en employed, the definition of which
octstgenerally understood in the courts of law through-
he country.
seMr• POLTLETT SCROPE said that courts of justice
1,,1Z often were not able to explain the proper meaning,
n„ i
h the Legislature intended to convey, and thus inWa
J nstances the very intentions of the Legislature
re frustrated. But he did consider that the
gislature would stultify itself very mum if it
Aertilonflt from explaining what it meant in an
h, Parliament He considered that there was too
-thtlae.h latitude in the definition of residence, so much so
Std It would be the subject of endless litigation. He
st. 60t consider that it would be fair that the parish of
bt Giles should support all the poor who lived there,
aumw°o spent their strength and health in the richer
th74:4, than wealthy parishes of St. James. He hoped,
they would define the word resideuce.
tr:ir "'"BERT PEEL said, they were approaching the
epe-,v question of union settlements by the present dis-
tcrll_,• He apprehended the question strictly for them
d ,•`.e4ue upon vva,s, whether they should give a stricter
ele)!lsiton to residence. Now, he considered the words
i4reeaed to implied industrial residences; they would
heeulice more doubt into the Act than certainty. What
it is by residence was generally understood, and
coenould be better to leave the question open to the
prol,.°ll sense which would guide those to whom the
effeetlBi"s of the Bill were entrusted to be carried into
kr HENLEY wished to have the sentence rendered
Igible. He would like to know what answer the
*til:beev,rearyof that House would be able to give if they
e examined on their oath as to where they had
night during the last five years ?—(Laugh-
fort) -the.parochial authorities would question the un-
sdiln,ste individual (whom they wished to remove),
k-r.e pus would remain on him to prove his right.
foul. STUART WORTLEY considered that they
4487 leave the definition to the dictates of common
143, denich would be found a much bettercriterion than
,:stli.tion.
.15'-'OIiETT DENISON said he hoped the House
two not accept the suggestion to make the decision of
013.1,tiagistrates binding. He considered that they
cipre't to leave the question undefined, so that the prin-
the: of common sense might be the guide by which
Lithores should decide..
filet rr. VERNON SMITH considered that it would in-
-4 timmetj great hardship on the applicant before the ma-
sit if they did not define their meaning.
44tit-,"%GRARAM offered some observations in exp_
the out his observations were utterly i l _anaudible in
gaiter -
s•blr „ WORTLEY also explained.
tt • HENLEY objected to the principle of the clause,
IR:" Would be almost impossible for any man to prove
he ullactorily that he had slept forty nighs in the parish
Poc,,whole burden of the proof would berth rown on the
man who sought relief.
to
!Vain PECHELL withdrew his motion; and on
to. ilext clause relating to widows, he should certainly
Z 1 the sense of the House. -
WhCl'', PAKINGTON rose to move an amendment of
ich he hadgiven notice, namely, to substitute the
vt°td three The amendment was so
for the word. five.
that it required but little explanation ; and he
t„,4. therefore, simply to state that the greatest evils arose
~,;" the poor from the present system of removal ; and,
"11 ket, they suffered more than those who were punished.
tii4erime. Great hardships had also been, inflicted upon
!Poor from their fear of the system. They had ab-
-laed from seeking any relief, in many instances, know-
re that any application would result in an immediate
clo
oft,
al
sal. The authority of the Poor-law Commissioners
cfavour of the period of three years industrial resi-
‘-te ; and by a law which existed in Scotland last year,
th,ree, Years industrial residence, in any expressed town,
the id entitle them to a settlement there. It was for
tsoy'snefit of the poor that they shc uld be made irre•-
Qeahlelonel in as short a period as possible
ibhpt4 WOOD said that he had given notice of a
at‘ motion to the one made by the Hon. Member,
441411 learning that it would be resisted by the Bir-
Soctiani manufacturers, he had withdrawn it..
.He
iltars,reeommend the Hon. Member to follow a similar
tha km • GREY said that he was not prepared to deny
vsthe,of the arguments used by the Hon. Member,
wader
0014 nsiderati
thought that as the Bill had been a long time
co •
on period had always been
,
M ;r°rseard to as and the
five years, he thought that it would
lAlterable to withdraw his motion.
'rew words from Lord HARRY VANE,
th47r, sAIkr,EINGTON withdrew his amendment.
6Pti.t,a "INTER thought that the pauper should have
if Y saellc4 going to his own parish if he so pleased.
tetc't_trrangement he considered that among pauper,
prAll fri lerson would be enabled to go his
entl;4 It would, in his opinion, be a great im-
air.rzipe,,Ola the proposed plan.
QCROPEwished to draw attention to the
tiler wee
Of giving a right to relief to any Irishman, who
did wlttes
no here for a period. of five years, while
rec • " law of settlement in Ireland, and those who
ter, eive relief treated in a very indifferent man-
• Towere
1841, 1842, and 1843, there were 320 English
1,28 i7l;_ernoved from Manchester, while there were
441-'4l families, being nearly one•half. (Hear,
men'. There were nearly a million of Irisla-
the ,resident in England, and the effect of
claim Bill would be to give every one of these a
sew Charge
to the ratepayers of this country. He did no
tPulia that the Irish received relief, but he thought
0041. 11° great an anomaly as he bad pointed. out shouldthe
toli,-ekoved, and he would conclude by moving that
he words be added:—" Provided always,
e7that
native of Ireland shall be liable to removal till
si74 G.
to aialt'richt to relief in his own country."
Y Was sure that the House would not ex-
hego intothe
question of the Irish Poor-laws.
ktthszltrildgibisehmara'n)
handeapcoenastiadeevreerdaithat when an Irishman
years toiling together,
great hardship, in the event of their both
4e relief
chaargeable, that one should be entitled to re-
totirttl . rellef, and the other be removed, and sent out of the
IttiornT This, he considered, would be a far greater
tlekaaj than that complained of by the Hon. Gen-
bardFERGUSON said that, as chairman of a
416,, 7,4 guardians he could state that the English were
ttilohveg oti the same terms precisely as the Irish in the
tip .-Zer which he presided ; and there were one. or
heri;'4noes which recently came under his notice,
h-,""Y were dealt with even more favourably.
Treed- araendment was then withdrawn, and the clause
ti,,-,to• On clause 2,
tsoci;,'4,ECHELL moved that, after the word " widow-
sanrl the second line, the words "be required to
44--;„thed as to her settlement, or," be inserted.
4te ah,- AIKINGTON, under the circumstances, thought
PrescZenlltnent ought not to be pressed on the House at
Af
'1;1'0 etei,„, few words from Captain PECHELL and. Mr.
„`4lt°,-.' la support of the amendment, and Sir G.
elan`tell rainst it the amendment was withdrawn, and
eja„se, in its original form, agreed to.
Or, le 3 was then agreed to.
kr e,,,,La680 4 being read,
cOna'ATTON EGERTON said they ought to re-
titih„l'er this clause, when they kept in view the great
krtiaY works in the kingdom, which would lead to
4116:1414r
districts being hardly pressed on. He merely
subi the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet to the
tame
at resent.
tasa„,l GEORGE GREY thought such cases as those
I)4,;`` could hardly be reached by any Bill like the
possible In the construction of joint works, it was im-
kid re to avoid some districts being hardly pressed on,
Thil a manner that no general measure could reach.
6 I Qat c ause was then agreed to.
Atto„llse 5 after a few words from Mr. Henley, the
was 'tieY-General, Mr. P. Scrope, and Sir George Grey,
Tagreed to, with a few verbal amendments.
dj he remaining clauses were then agreed to without
Weassion, the House resumed, the chairman reported
415(1re813, and the report was ordered to be brought
tia-raorrow.