The Sun.
London, England, 1848-03-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 3.

The House met to-day at Five o'clock.
Lord FEVERSLI AM presented a petition from
Whitby against the repeal of the navigation laws.
Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from
a society of Odd Fellows, praying that they might
be placed on the same footing as friendly societies.
IRISH POOR-LAW UNIONS.

Earl FITZWILLIAM rose for the purpose of
moving for certain returns relative to the appoint-
ment of paid guardians in Ireland, when

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE begged to inter-
rupt the Noble Earl for the purpose of saving the
time of the House, by stating that the papers for
which the Nobie Earl was about to move would in
the course of a few days be lai upon the table of the
House.

Earl FITZWILLIAM, notwithstanding what
bad fallen from the Noble Marquis, would persevere
in his motion. He wished to have a discussion on
the subject.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE bad no desire to
avoid the discussion. but it would be more conve-
niently taken when the papers should be before the
Housia.
The Duke of WELLINGTON suggested that, in
addition to the returns moved for, returns should be
made of the average prices of food in Ireland in the
respective unions.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the sugges-
tion of the Noble Duke should be attended to.

The subject then dropped.
EDUCATION.
Lord LYTTELTON presented a petition from
the Worcester Diocesan Board of Education, on the
subject of the management clauses required by the
Committee of Privy Council to be inserted in the trust
deeds of schools receiving aid from the Parliamentary
grants. He complained that an immediate obedience
to these management clauses had been demanded from
the schools. This was a new conditicn introduced
into the agreement between the Government and
these schools, and there certainly had been a virtual
compact that no fresh conditions should be re-
quired. He asked therefore from the Government that
they should suspend the enforcement of these condi-
tions.

The Bishop of WORCESTER said that there was
a standing order of the -Worcester Diocesan Board, to
the effect that no matter of importance should be
deliberated on without the members of the board re-
aiding at a distance from Worcester being summoned.
Now, in this case no such summons had been issued,
and therefore the petition could only be considered
as the petition of those who had signed it. With
regard to the management clauses which were com-
plained of in this petition, he thought they were com-
plained of most unnecessarily. It would be most un-
reasonable to deny the power claimed from them by
these clauses, and he deprecated any agitation which
should seek to deprive them of that power.
Lord LYTTELTON explained.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, if the public
money was to be granted without the manner of its ap
propriation being secured by a deed, the schools would
fail in their great object. It was only of late that any-
thing had been heard about the exclusion of the laity
from a share in the management.—(Hear, hear.) The
aid given to the Natierial Society had been upon the
understanding that the clauses complained of were to be
the terms of union, and that there were to be no other.
The late Archbishop of Canterbury admitted the pro-
priety of these clauses, after an amendment which the
committee had proposed, to the effect that clergymen
were to have the exclusive interference '° with the moral
and religious instruction of the children." It was said
that these clauses ha I prevented the increase of schools;
he could only say, however, that the number of appli-
cations trom the clergy themselves was very great,
and that they were- constantly increasing. If any
question arose upon a religious subject, the clergyman
decided without reference to ithe laity. Was it to be
said, then, that this was not enough for the clergyman
to claim, and that the layman was to be deprived of the
power in the management which he was justly entitled
toe—(hear, hear.) He considered this was a grievance
without a foundation; but when the next grant was
made, the matter should be again taken into consider-
ation. He could not, however, admit the principle of the
clergy having the power of overruling the opinions of
the lay managers.-(Hear, hear.)
The Bishop of CHICHESTER said there sees no wish
on the part of the clergy to exclude the laity from co-
operating in the management.
The Earl of ILCHESTER said a few words which
were quite inaudible in any connected form in the
gallery.
The Bishop of OXFORD regretted that this discussion
should have taken place, considering it altogether un-
timely. As it had been introduced, however, he begged
to add his assurance that there was deep and wide-
spread jealousy, alike among the laity and among
the clergy of the Established Church, on the
subject of these schools. It was felt, and felt as aTgreat
injustice, that while dissenting schools were allowed
to be conducted on dissenting principles, Church
schools were only allowed to be conducted on principles
half church and halt dissenting. As the minutes of
Council were now constructed there were no means of
settling, the disputes respecting the managers of schools.
He had himself suggested that a reference, in such mat-
ters, should be oven t.) the bishop of the diocese, with
appeal to the arc!ibi,hop, or reference open to the laity
as well as to the clergy; for he, in common with all the
clergy whom he had heard speak on the subject, had no
jealousy whatever of the laity, but were anxious to give
them a full share in the superintendence over the ma-
nagement of these schools.

l'he Bishop of ST. DAVID'S considered that the
alarm and jealousy to which his Right Rev. Brother had
referred were not altogether without foundation. There
was reason to apprehend that sufficient power was not
given to the Church schools to conduct their education
on Church principles, et he rid not believe that the
alarm was so general or so vivid as was imagined by his
Right Rev. Friend.

- -
The
Eari of I)ELMVARR was anxious to inquire
whether a printed report of an interview between the
Noble Marquis and some members of the dissenting
body Wes correctly reported ?
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, from his seat, said
he would reply presently.
Lord STANLEY thought it would have been more
convenient had the- Noble Lord replied at once. The
principle involved in this discussion appeared to him to
be a most material one. The question substantially was
if any Government should be entitled to alter, at its
pleasure, the system on which Church schools were to be
governed. It was stated that there was nothing novel
in the conditions now imposed. But how had it ever
been laid down before that with the clergyman of the
parish and proprietor of the estate there should bc as-
sociated a body of small farmers or any others who were
subscribers to the schools? How had it ever before been
declarsd that without compliance with such a condition
no grant should 13:13 made for a school from public
fund. ? This vi•Lii not merely a new audition ; it was
one now for the first Lime ever heard if. But it was not
of this ho so much c enplained i-f the uncertainty under
which the clergy and laity laboured in consequence of
those suddenly varying regulations proceeding from an
anomalous authority. .Fie confessed, for his own part,
that he thought the .great fundamental error was in
giving too great a latitude to a board so constituted as
the Elueational Coaiinittee of the Privy Council, and he
thought that the evils arising from the working of the
apt- m were every d iy increasing.
The Marquis of LANSI)OWNE said it was from no
reluctance that he had not risen before, but merely to
save their lordships the trouble of hearing two speeches.
He argued that there was no necessity for any alarm
whatever at the regulations of the Educational Com-
mittee; and he denied that there was any novelty in their
principle. With regsrd to the report to which the Noble
Earl opposite had alluded, the report was in substance
correct.

After a few words from Lord LYTTELTON in reply,
the petitition was ordered to lie on the table, and the
Rouse adjourned at twenty-five minutes to Eight.

, ROUSE OF COMMOIVS. Mach 3.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at ten minutes before
Four o'clock.

BEWDL EY ELECTION.
The following Members were appointed a Com-
mittee to try the merits of the Bewdley Election :
Lord Viscount Castlereagh, Mr. W Hutt Mr. W
Tatton Egerton, Sir 13 Birch, W.
Mr. 'jVi B.
Wrightson (chairman) T.
B.
'
I`,lr. DUN CAN presented'et. a petition from the
Chamber of Commerce Dundee against the con-
tinuation of the income.tax.
Colonel TYNTE presented a petition from Bridge-
water
Jews into
nt6pe Parliament
from
3,ir. ti. o
i thierkswine
Eeffeeit.E
presented Perth against the admission of
Mr. Alderman SIDNEY presented a petitiOamfom
ent*
Stafford against the continuation of the incoriale.rtx
Mr. PATTISON presented a petition from Corad:
wainers' Ward against the continuation of the income-
tax, and praying the Government to reduce their
expenditure.
Mr. CARDWELL presented a petition from
• ' Liverpool, praying for a more equitable adjustment
of the income- tax.
Mr. ADDERLEY presented a petition from
Leek, in Staffordshire, against the admission of Jews
into Parliament.
Mr. ROBINSON presented a petition from Poole
against the income-tax.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition from
Birmingham to the same effect.
Mr. P. O'CONNOR presented a petition from Mr.
Robert Owen, stating that the Government was
prayingacting upon an erroneous principle, and that 1
some
~ . . course might be adopted to educate and en-
lighten the people.
Mr. W. AIILES presented a petition from Frome
a,
_Ragainst the establishment of diplomatic relations with
ome.
-7:l' I.atiVlY*.C..Want_rse.nted petitions from Edinburgh
..,
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creme bathe7plniy uaatiion of the income•tax, the in-
. EY
sod
:', '''' witreßoine.'7 n "
''':"7 ' Mr,. 'WA
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diplomatic relations
presentedatudpetitions from st.
George the Martyr,
Andre,iv7_,B '':. . horn,
favour of a tax on
agaipsftbet ' ome• tax, and in f•
teaLvtoper* Also, a petition froam
tavistock, com-
:041. ingclhat no medical members were obe appointed
under the Health of Towns Bill to the local boards,

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