The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-29 00:00:00

was not in a progressive state—until they could Prove that the
wants of the population did not increase with their growing
numbers—until they did all this, he would rather trust to the
sagacity and foresight of her Majesty's Ministers, who had, in
his opinion, only introduced this measure at a period when it
was really required. For himself he would only say, that even
if he had not changed his opinion upon this subject he would
never have joined in the outery•which had been raised against
Perhaps the most eminent statesman who had ever ruled the
destinies of this great country. Whatever, therefore, might be
the fate of this measure, whether it were to pass into a law, or
whether it were to be rejected by their Lordships, this country
still would be deeply indebted to that Minister for the series of
admirable measures he had brought forward, and for his endea-
vours to raise the country from the slough of despondency in
which he had found it.—(lmmense cheering.) The present
measure was admitted by all to he not a factious one ; it pos-
sessed in itself all the elements of success; and even if it
should disappoint the expectations which had been formed of it,
the country would acquit that Minister of any blame in conse-
quence. It would increase the comforts of the labouring
classes, it would extend the advantages of commerce, which
under the protective system had been paralysed, and when
time should have ohllt'rated all party feelings, the name of
this Minister would be looked up to by all posterity with gra-
titar2e and admiration. He should give his hearty support to
this measure.
The Earl of EGLINTON said, that since he had the ho-
nour of seconding the address to her Majesty's speech from
the throne, he had never obtruded himself upon the notice of
the House further than by addressing- very few words to their
Lordships, and, therefore, he trusted they would excuse him
on the present occasion. Like
the' Noble Earl who
had just sat down, he (Lord Reli on) had no doubt of the
propriety of the course he was pursuing,nt but, unlike him, he
had not changed his opinions_( cheers
would
from
umll adtehbeeh
vaade
rwyai
sdfiehr adhered
and temperate
ett
eoh:tdphet,rsaet
advocated. Conservative
counter-cheers)—
foru n
principleste r ch ewe rhs,i)eh—,
course
to
eie dmoeudbib.treyudteptniiontietehsatiiet
order to insure the unanimity of a party,
a point beyond which they could not go,'a
,lere was
a blind obedience to the dictum of a eadtn,r whereul be most reprehensible. He was of opinion would
they had never reached that point, and when they found the
leader who had, in times gone pat, inculcated those principles,
prostituting his excellent talents, r,.nti deserting those principles
and the party who held them, he considered that further
obedience to him would be must reprehensible.
He did not wish to be personal, though on occasions
like the present it was too much the habit to indulge
in personality, and ascribe to those who might differ from
them, all kinds of improper and dishonourable motives.
He would beg to say that he hid toe much re-pect for
those who occupied the Ministerial benches, too much respect
for their Lordships' House for one moment to indulge in any
observations of the kind. How much he might lament the
Course which they had judged it expedient to pursue, how
much he might blame their facility in yielding to a line of
policy which he considered as pregnant with danger to the
ceuntry, yet he believed they were as much actuated for the
general good as the warmest aid bitterest of their opponents.
And though it might appear very strange to him that out of a
Cabinet of 13 one only should have been found to have come
out unscathed from the furnace, still he believed that her Ma-
jesty's Government were not actuated by any love of office, but
that the party were influenced by an extraordinary want of
firmness of purpose and a more extraordinary admiration of their
leader, but he considered it a legitimate subject to inquire
into a change of opinion. In the first place, the failure of the
potato crop had been denied by the Noble le rd in his opening
speech upon the measure, as the influencing causeof the change,
but he (Lord Eglington) must beg leave to differ from him,
and exaggerated statements of a failure was the reason for the
introduction of the measure. He did not mean to say that
those statements were entirely without foundation, He did
believe that there was a partial failure of the potato crop, but
it was not of sufficient amount to involve the consequence of a
famine. Some of the poorer inhabitants ran a risk of incur-
ring more than their usual quantum of suffering, and it cer-
tainly was the duty of Government to interpose to
the best of their ability; and if he thought this
Bill would have the effect of relieving distress—if he
considered that it would prevent the suffering of one poor
family, he would support the Bill; but he did not think it
would have any such effect. A great many measures could
have been found to alleviate distress. An increase of the
income-tax might have been imposed, but how the present
measure could have the effect of providing against the famine
in Ireland was quite out of his power to comprehend.
There was no scarcity of provisions in Ireland ; the only
scarcity that was felt there was a scarcity of money, and he
could conceive no measure less calculated to benefit Ireland
than the present. Ireland seas strictly an agricultural e( untry,
and
;thousands of its acres were uncultivated, and if there was
anything more incumbent on them than another, it would be
to pass measures calculated to reclaim these lands. But he
put it to them was the present measure calculated to have any
such effect ? On the contrary, it put an end to all agricultural
enterprise. But then, forsooth, they were told that they had
been pampered into sloth by protection, and that competition
would infuse life into them, and that where they at present
grew three qrs. of wheat they would grow five qrs. But he
did not understand how competition, which necessarily
induced low prices, could have any such effect.
Could the landowners, who depended for their incenses on
the rents cf their lands, afford to lay out the necessary expendi-
ture, which would inv.dre the probability of the produce of
five years instead of three.—( Hear, hear.) He seas particu-
larly interested in the state of Scotland, and he believed that
the present measure would he most injurious to the farmers in
the western district of Scotland, who lived in the manner of
labourers, he should like to know how they would be able to
compete with the low-priced corr. They had laid out all their
money on their ground, and now, when they expected to
reap some return, they were to be delayed by a sup-
ply of corn, at a cheaper rate than they were
able to produce it. Bad land could not compete
with the very low price, and it would be thrown back into
grass, which it could hardly produce. Then, as regarded the
principle of competition, suppose a new railway was to be
started in competition against an old-established one, both
having the same termini, he would put it to them, would it
conduce to the prosperity of the old? And if they hail
cheaper fares, even under a better management, would
it tend to make their dividends 5 per cent. instead of 3 ?
If after the ample discussion which had been given to this mea-
sure and after the deliberate opinions of the people, it should
hi' decided that the country must be governed on the principles
of free trade, he for one was not prepared to say that that
House should stand in the way of the avowed wishes of the
nation.---( Hear, hear.) As hereditary guardians of the people.
as the protectors of their rights, as Peers of Great Britain. he ,
called upon them to reject this Bill.—( Hear, hear.) Ho
besought the Noble Drake, without whose assent this Bill could

not appear before their Lordships, he besought him to stand
forth once more as the protector of that country which he had
sn often saved. He called upon the Noble Lords opposite who
adhered to those principles of protection which they had al-
ways advocated in common with himself though they differed very
materially on other points. Laws might be re-enacted, statutes
might be repealed, but character once gone could never be
regained. He besought their Lordships not .to share in
the degradation which this ill.nmened measure had brought
upon the publics character of British statesmen—( Cheers)—
and which he feared would cast a foul blot upon them in after
ages.—( Loud cheers.)
Earl DALTIOUSIE and Lord Beauerowx here rose simulta-
neously to address the House, and contested their right to do
so for several minutes, during a scene of the greatest confusion.
The latter Noble Lord struck the table several times in tile
most violent manner, and in the midst of most vociferous cries
of " Dalhousie" and " Beaumont" shouted " I move the ad-
journment of this House." Earl Dalhousie at length gave
way, when
Lord BEA IfIIONT, in a most excited stake —I am surprised
that the Noble Earl should persist in his attempt to prevent
me from addressing your Lordships, because I said to him
across the table that I would occupy but a few minutes of
your Lordships' time—(Cheers)—feeling anxious, as he is. and
all your Lordships must be, that this debate should conclude
(Cheers. ) And when I rose :t was fgr the purpose of confin-
ing myself to a very-few remarks. Although I confess, my
Lords, it is with rain I do contract my observation] into a
small compass, because I feel much on the subject. I have
thought much on this subject .—(Cheers. ) I have attended
to every speech that has been made on this subject, and I do
think that there are certain points which have not.
yet teen aduled to.—(Hear, hear.) But, nay Lords,
notwithstanding this strong feeling, I will still keep
the pledge I should have given, and if your Lordships will but
lend me your attention for a few minutes—(Cheers)—you will
find that I will not detain you long.—(Cheers.) If, my Lords,
in those few remarks which I feel it my daty to address to
you, I do not dwell on that portion of the subject on which so
much stress has been made in other parts of this discussion, I
mean that strange change of opinion which has come over cer-
tain Noble Lords,l trust you will not impute it, by my silence on
that subject, to any small value that I may be supposed to pct
upon the consistency of character in 'public men. I feel
as much as any man the shock which public morality must have
received by this uncalled-for and injurious measure. And
if the question of the conduct of the Government were brought
forward separately, I myself would move a resolution,
object of which would be to reprobate their conduct, for
re.
on
such a subject I would feel it my duty to vote for such
solution as that.—(Hear, hear.) But on the present
occa.
pion, my Lords, I would confine myself to the subject before
you, because it is my wish that this subject should be treated
on its own merits. I wish, my Lords, to come to a consider-
ation, whether or no, you are now to alsonden that principle,
which for so many years as guided your commercial qualities ;
and supposing you to come to that resolution, whether the
Iflhe
oa
pr
dh etaor . )h a vTe hseeseen were
this
themeasure gr ou nd s my L rds
measure propcsed by the Government is the best mode of en
dtohoneinwegnh?liy—which(
I need not say, my Lords, nowsc'llatsstehdiso andla t
end of the debate, that my vote shall be n
given agal • st this mea-
sure. You have based this measure on its
real ground, for with the
exception of two Noble Friend, who sit together, the Noble
Marquis and the Noble Earl who spoke on the former occa •
sion, if any arguments have been brought forward in favour of
the Government measure. lam sure we have had ncne from
the Government themselves. What was the case in regard to
the Noble Earl who opened the debate? He wasted a long period
in trying to bring forward an excuse for his vote on this question,
a long list of votes against his seeretly entertained opinions.—
( Hear, hear.) The larger portion of the Noble Earl's speech
was to the effect that he entertained free-trade principle!, but
notndveernotu rtehetNo
ovboleteEainrrsacscpoeredcahnwcage.—a (feHeebaler,athteemarp.t)
Thehe6rde mai
at argument with regard to the grounds and principles of this
measure. After partially abandoning the cry of famine in
Ireland, he said, My lords, I know that it will be
satisfactory, notwithstanding the t;istress in Ireland, that corn
in immense quantities has been imported into this country.
The fact was, they were about to enhance the value of every
article and necessary of life—to lose the benefit of the price to
be obtained by the competition of a single market in order to
enhance the price of food. Such seemed to be the object of

every projector of the Bill. He was aware that a great at-
tempt had been made to show a deficiency in the crops of
potatoes in Ireland. This he drew from the last returns sent
to England; but a great deficiency had occurred in the potato
crop, and the natural consequence was, that the peasantry
would neglect the culture of potatoes for white crops. What-
ever might be the eloquence employed upoc the subject, no
elserge whatever could be made respecting the paints before the
House ; and when the balance of trade was talked of, it was of
li.tle consequence on which side this hatince was to rest, but
certainly, when there was atiything to poise, it might well
be asked on which side the advantage was to be gained.
They were told that gold was to tilt for the exchange
of genie, and gold was to be the grand maximum of frith in

on referring to the eridence of Mr. Gay before the Land
Burdens Committee, that that gentleman stated that in the
China market the exports were selling at less and less, and that
many losses were in conssquence sustained. He believed the
exports must be met by imports, and put gold among the
other articles that are to be estimated in the calculation.
Grain entered comparatively little into the foreign trade, as
compared with the home trade, which, in regard to the exports
they were selling year by year for less and less, while higher
prices were being paid for returns to be imported --(Hear,
hear.) If they reduced the price of labour in the home market
to an equivalent extent, there would, however, be no lose. If the
rate of labour in both countries was approximated there would
be no loss. The great argument with regard to the corn-laws
was, that in order to increase the exports of the country, it was
necessary to increase the imports. He believed in that respect,
that the imports were regniatel in a great measure by the state
of the home market. Taking the population of England and
t hleuyarfoteurndotfli eepoorinml a tir
seteombeed
tcoo npsoulmi
tiienagl
eWacahles
economists there were twenty millions of acres of arable land
in the country, of whteh Eve milliene of acres were under
wheat. Supposing that ea. h acre yield three quarters—and
that was less than was produced in many pleces he knew, bet it
was the average amount of corn y ielded
—t lie amount produced
would be fifteen millions, being one million less than the whole
required for the conommtion of the population. There was but
one million of quarters which were made up from Ireland and
the colonies. The amount of deficiency was se small zs to
leave but little •to be made up by importation from foreign
countries. --(Hear, hear.) But the lowest food at present
consumed by the people was wheaten bread. He made this
statement, and he made it advisedly. It had .yen proved that
when distress prevailed in. Leeds and Sheffield there was more
wheaten bread consumed than at times when trade was
fieurishing ; as at the latter period the ccnsurpption of
butcher's meat was so much greater.—(Hear, hear.) At present
therefore, even in seasons of depression, there was but 1,000,000
to make up, though in many seasons the country produced
sufficient to supply its wants. But it was said that free-trade
would increase the quantity to 2,009,003 quarters, and that the
egoree aett
royhjtelc t
eoef
etoheerse,hiaengg
elar‘gvaes itmopotts. increase
Tthheer
ee xwpaosr ttso ohf
et ha
ne
importation of 2,000',000. If so, they must displace 2,000,000
of English grown quarters, over and above the present amount ;
and if there was an increase of prosperity among the manufac-
turers of the country, then that 16,00',000 of cuarters would be
etoxoteomtucfhoe, atshbeuwtchheear
mu-t here allude to meatwr'schnat
was
stated aetcieod that
l
alo itsd
npreoadreeteo
ohfitmhe,
bossesfe l
from
or uo
ml
atd bt
present
ree ueNbe
ost t
lt
eu consumed.t
Le do
rtdo wa go r
Hes al
He
caonudntwryh,
ndrienjanmdsa,nyanydeathrsatthiet would be found that in this respect the
present measure would
be a great hardship. If this were so therihow
wouldt hismeet
the expectations of those who expected that this measure would
brine a large accession of imports. There would be periods
if this were true, there would be seasons and periods in which
the large supplies exported would not be required, and then
away would go the principle of the manufacturing interest, who
expected from this measure a large, regnlar, and perma-
nent increase of trade with foreign countries.—( Hear. )
The Noble Marquis else said that if they adopted this measure
of free trade, the foreigner would regulate his supply, and
there would be a regular produce for each and every year, bet
this was nothing more than what they had at the present mo-
ment ; for the Noble Lord ternatked, and truly, that under the
present system the foreigner had warning when they
were in distress, and when they had abundant harvests, This
was ju=t what. be required; and he eas, therefore, strongly
favourable to the present system, but whether they had a slid-
ing-scale or not, the foreigner would always be informed as to
the prices of wheat in this country.--( Hear, Lear.) If they
were to have foreign corn, it was better, he thought,
that it shonld come into the country paying a small
duty. But it mos ergued that the foreigner,
having a knowledge of the state of the markets in this country,
could easily stop the supplies during disturbed times ; bat how
did this agree with one of the statements made by the Noble
and Learned Lord who lately interrupted him? The Noble
and Learned Lord stated that even Then Napoleon was in the
meridian of his power—when Napoleon had almost conquered
the world, and had every part under his control, he could
not prevent corn coming into this Country.—(Hear, hear.)
There was snot her circumstance to which he roust allude be-
fore he sat down. 'The protectionists were asked why the
English farmer could not compete with the foreigner. Now,
he contended, in the first place that the English farmer came
into the market not on fair terms with the foreigner. He was
as convinced of this as he was living at that moment.—(Hear,
hear.) In balancing the trade of the country, the English
farmer brought 16,002,000 quarters of cern into the market,
while the foreigner only brought 2,000,000, or 3,000,090_
the one, however, came positively loaded with taxation, while
the foreigner came in free. The English farmer had, perhaps,
to pay 4s. or 55., in the shape of direct taxation upon every
quarter of his wheat, and yet he had to compete with the
foreigner who paid no tax whatever. Besides his
Noble and Learned Friend knew little or nothing of Russia, or
he never would have made the statement he did with regard to
it. Instead of Russia being in the position it was, the land
was already clear and ready for plough. It required neither
manure nor any thing else, and it only waited for the seed being
thrown on the land. —( Hear, hear.) Would this city then.
compete with the British farmer on fair and equaleterms ? He
would wish to know whether his Noble Friend was a German
scholar.L-(Larghter.) Well, perhaps he was not—(Renewed
laughter)—if he were, he would remember the description of
the state of the cern soils in Russia. The description afar
immense tract of land, ready to receive the grain, and only
likely to give a return in case of a proper market being found.
Not long ago, he was at the port of Goole, in Yorkshire, and
he there saw corn which had been conveyed on board' a
vessel there at 12e. 6d. per quarter. They might use their in-
formation as they liked, but he could produce a confirmation° f
his statement, that the corn was conveyed on board free, at
12s. 6d, per quarter., Ile referred to his authority, as there
was a disposition to contrai'iet his statement. It was not
probable that they could maintain that the price of
corn would remain so low as it was at present. He knew
that if a large trade was carried on in corn the prices would
rice, but they would be subject to an enormous fluctuation.
He had seen last autumn and winter in Germany that from
Monday to Wednesday the price of bread had risen six
kreutzere. When they did away with the bonding system
they would be exposed to three fluctuations, and left unpro-
sided with corn stores. The garnering system was adopted
all over the c:n:inent, in France, Austria, Germany, Turkey,
and even by the Pacha of Egypt. ff there was not sufficient
provision ier the country, the people fell back on these stores,
which as late as last winter had been the means of preventing
famine in many parts of the country. The bonding system Ls
England ensured that protective system.--( Hear, hear.) We
had in bond a certain quantity of corn which was always a
provision, and it was pretty certain rot to come into the
market until it was wanted, arid it was certainly a safeguard
to the country, and it was more certain and more economical
than any other that could be arranged. They had net in this
country what was seen at Constantinople, when the people
were clamouring at the at senal matiding the surrender of the
provisions contained in the buildeng. Something might be
done which would hinder the country being dependent on
others, If they were to follow the suggestion of his Noble
Friend near him, they would cultivate more stock, instead of
basing a proper quantity of arab:e land. His Noble Friend
said that stock was a great heprovernent in farming, but
they must have the straw for the stock, and must have the
land to supply that straw and receive in return the manure.
If this measure was passed they would be compelled to make
up a sufficient number of quarters of foreign wheat, and having
no bonded system, you will then be driven to extreme distress.
Then would happen that grieveMs of ism for which they aepeer
to strive—namely, the market will be only supplied just with
what it wanted for the moment. Then, if anything sudden
were to happen to the country to check this system. so that this
importation could not take place, what would become of the
country ? Under the present law there was always a sufficient
quantity in bend is supply the deficiency, in case of an accident
of this kind.

The Marquis of NORNIANBY—Remember your promise.
Lord BEAUMONT—The Noble Marquis had reminded
him of his promise. He had only to state that he had a tew
words to say with reference to the question of population in
extensive districts. There was no doubt that whatever the
pinlation was, there must he a great demand for labour. In
this country, however, the population was very dense, so that
there was a great supply rather than a deficiency; therefore,
the whole argument drawn from the circumstances of America,
did net in the least apph to this country. Their Lordships must
bear in mind that this c untry was the most densely populated
country in all Europe. There was another point
to which he must cad their Lordships' attention, and
than from
from Selby and Goole to Londont odetain their Lord.
that was the question of freight.
shi
Hamburgh to London. He
fulnesswas sorry The
h
e freights were
c.f his feeling. He
proceed at further length ; that,
wishing as he did that the debate
gretted that he could not fprosmosth,eort as he had done—he re-
was extremely
so l .
sorrylle spoke o ko
s stop
should be concluded to--.light,
must have a ion.. and an able speech
and knowing that they yet
because he thought the Government were
and able speech,
from the Noble Earl opposite ( Dalhoune). He said a long
bound to show some better ground than had yet been dose, and
some better reasons on the part of the Government for intro-
ducing this measure. He considered that it was their duty to
show what would be the diminution of price in tho article of
corn—whether it would diminish the material income, cc
whether they intended to take 30 per cent., or 20 per cent.
from the income of this country. He weuld refer to one point_
the rental of land. The rental of this country was 17/. an
acre in the North Riding of Yorkshire, 13/. in some parts of
Wales. There were two parishes in Lancashire in which Mr.
A.liwortli's manufactories stood, where the rental was only 8/.
an acre. This fact was given in evidence by Mr. Ashworth
before the Committee app&wed to inquire into these matters.
He would conclude by observing that he very much regretted
he could not refer to other subjects which he was desirous of
bringing before the attention of their Lordships, but at that
late hour of the evening he would not fin thcr detain them, and
he thanked their Lordships for the kindness with which they
had heard him.

Lord BROUGHAM explained. His olject, he said, in in-
terrupting the Noble Lord wag to prevent misconception with,
regardthe to (Lordwhatbeof the N ole Lord.
Broughnhm)hadreallystated, and also'
for His Noble Friend
convenience
had entirely misunderstood his statements and his arguments in
reference to Russia and to Napoleon Buonaparte, and he
had entirely reversed the inference which he had drawn. Ilia
object in interrupting the Noble Lord was merely to set him right.
and to prevent his (Lord Brougham's) arguments from being
misunderstood.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE hoped that their Lordships
would do him the justice to believe that in rising to address
them in favour of the second reading of this Bill, he did so
under deep and unfeigned distrust of his inability to discharge
the task intrusted to him, but he honed, from the continual
course of kindness uhieh he had experienced from them, he
would meet with their indulgence, while be made a few obser-
vations on the important quesiion at present under their con-
sideration. Nothing should fall from him to increase
the feelings of discontent whicsl prevailed among
their Lords'iips, bet he would address himself to the
. .

question without attempting to excite any irritation on so im-
portant a cut ject. The debate, as far as it had yet gone, had
divided itself into two considerations—the one referred to the
measure itself, and the other to the constuct of those Fbe bad
brought it forward. It was, be admitted, hard to endure, and
painful to listen to the
Intchooomr3temificcit,isito;:h%ci,!.:ofe73hiatd,
obi,riceeinip.rn(hi
ling
upon
:
those who were idenified with the present measure ; and •
:tiatielotrulyignh acted, stilt opposition
iistt:inel id to
hohee must admitxi, t
I,th ere a e
s
„um
ich
their Lo'erddshipasd
whloicadridf..
fceartets,ei
fromforhimthoenirt
hisctorunaemmei
It was not from any
disre'l3nocrltes,tt.flea7t. ill: would not address their
Lordships at any length. His Noble Priend, the late Secretary
for the Colonies, had laid (IPthat(.
nts
he would feel it unnecessary to ease
fully be
lo)enfo; them,
a gu
advanced by the Noble Lord. He should mention to their
Lordships that lie had always been of opinion that the pi inciple
of protection was not to be maintained, for it was most injarr-
ous to the trade of this country. He bad founded that opi.
nion not upon any light grounds, but had formed it from an
examination of the history of the commerce and the legislation
of this country. That was die source from which his opinion was
formed—that which his Noble Friend said he had sought
for in vain—namely the history of feats. The tariff sinee
1842 had placed the question of protection beyond all doubt AS
to its effects and as to the necessity of its alteration, jn
making the statements which he now did, he made no state-
ment at variance with the principles and opinions which he had
advocated for years. Ever since he had the fortune to take a
part in the administration cf affairs he hed not in that time
said anything but that which he now said. Ile remembered
watt that when 171, PlMl•ll_,Pd h;a •_ 1.! _ rr