The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-29 00:00:00

drawing anything from the substance contained in those letter
The Hon. Member here withdrew.

Mr. ESTCOURT said that he wished to state the grounds
on which he should ask the support of the House to a motion
which he should male, and to state to the House that, con-
sidering those circumstances, and the motion he was about
to make, this was the most painful duty he ever had to perform.
He thought he would be justified in the eyes of the House in
making that statement, for so long as he held the situation which
be then held, which has been since the Committee of Selection
had been instituted by that House, this was the first and only
time he had ever been called on to perform a duty sisnilar
to the present one. On the 12th of February last that House
framed certain resolutions, and amongst them was one to the
effect that the Committee of selection should form certain
Committees of inquiry into the merits of railway Bills.
The Committee of Selection by a resolution of this House
were ordered to give ample notice to those Members whom
they might choose to select, which notice was not to be less
than fourteen days. The Committee accordingly thought
it would be expedient to frame such a resolution, that
they might be able to give the notice required, and
before the Easter recess it was given to the Hon. Gentleman,
who was one of those selected. He received notice that on the
27th of the present month his attendance would be expected
so early as the 3d of April ; on that day he wrote
a letter to me, as Chairman of the Committee, and
in it he enclosed a copy of another letter, whick
was addressed to me, when a similar summons was
received by the Hon. Member; and the reason given for so
doing was that he (Mr. Estcourt) might, by referring to it,
know his reasons for refusing to comply with the
summons, stating that he had not seen any reasons
since. That letter was written to change his opinions.
He received that letter on the 3d of April ; that was on a
Friday. The first sitting of Committees of Selection was not
until the Tuesday following, the 6th of April, and, of course,
he could take no measures on receipt of this letter
until he had an opportunity of submitting the same
to his colleagues the Members of the Committee of Selection.
On the 6th of April this Committee met, and then he (Mr.
Estcourt s, laid before them the letter with the inclosures received
from the Hon. Member. The Committee of Selection found that
the Hon. Member objected to serve on Committees having no
relation to Ireland. And they also found that the Hon. Mem-
ber stated his reason for so objecting. He (Mr. Estcourt)
believed that he could not better put the House in
possession of the grounds on which the Committee had acted
than by reading part of the correspondence which had taken
place between himself and the Honourable Member.
st he would draw the attentian of the House
to rl t particular part of the Honourable Member's
lever on which the Committee had acted. The Hon. Member
said that as long as he continued to serve in that House as one
of the Irish Representatives he would not until Ireland
was placed upon a footing of political equality with
England think of devoting his time to the business of
this country. Then he went on to say that he had no
wish to interfere with the affairs of England or Scotland
unless those affairs were in some way connected with his
own country. And he added, that he had abstained,

while in that House from voting on questions of a merely local
nature from the same motives. The Committee of Selection

had instructed him again to write to the Hon. Member, stating
that no reason had been assigned which was in their opinion
sufficient to justify them in absolving the Hon. Member from
those duties which were imposed upon other Hon. Members.
He did write to the Hon. Member, informing him that the
Committee could not recognise such an excuse, and they would
not, therefore, be justified in exempting him from the perform-
ance of the duties which commenced on the 27th of April.
An addition was made to the letter, to the effect that the
Committee would be happy to make any arrangement to delay
the Hon. Member's attendance till a later period, if it would
be any accommodation to him to do so. That letter
he sent to the Honourable Member the next day,
and on the following day he received an acknow-
ledgement from the Honourable Member, in which the
Hon. Member stated that his objection to serving on these
Committees was founded on the relation which at
present existed between his own country and Great
Britain, and was in no way connected with his
personal convenience. The Hon. Member, therefore, stated
that his former communication announced his final determina-
tion. Ho (Mr. Estcourt) had not an opportunity of lay-
ing that letter before the Committee of Selection
till after the recess, and then the Committee felt a
sufficient excuse had not been given to justify the
non•attendance of the Honourable Member, and they
placed his name on the Committee appointed to consider
the merits of the Bills comprised in Grout) No. 11. In ac-
cordance with the resolutions of the House, Hon. Members were
required to make a declaration that they were not in any way
interested in the Bills referred to them ; but the Hon. Member
for Limerick neglected to make this declaration, and on Friday
last he ( Mr. Estcourt) reported this fact to the House, in accord-
ance with a resolution agreed to by the Committee of Selection.
Nothing further had transpired after that. He (Mr. Estcourt)
had regretted that the Hon. Gentleman, since that last letter,
had mae no communication to the Committee of Selection,
and he had not attended the ommittee yesterday. He then
found that it was his duty to make that motion, that the Hon.
Gentleman should attend the House to-day. That motion
was founded on the sixteenth res4ution of the 12th February
last. His next step was to make Ibis determination known to
the Hon. Gentleman yesterday. He was, however, disap-
pointed of his attendance, and he was consequently now com-
pelled to report to the Howe the resolution to which the Hon.
Gentleman had come, in order that the House might express
their opinion respecting it. The notice of the previous deter-
mination of the House had been duly sent; he was therefore
compelled to bring the matter before them on the present occa-
sion, stating, firstly, the fact of the Hon. Gentleman's not at-
tending the Committee yesterday ; next, his not attending the
Committee to-day, after the order of the House had been made
known to him ; and lastly, his not attending on the House to-
day. Nen. Gentlemen were aware that he ( Mr. Estcourt) was
not in the habit of frequently intruding:upon them— ( Cheers)—
but he must take this opportunity of assuring them that he and
the other members of the Committee of Selection were deeply
sensible of the readiness with which their services were rendered,
not only on the ordinary Committees of Private Bills, when
their assistance was not compelled, but also on the more ar-
duous occasions, when their attendance was considered indis-
pensable. He could assure them that those services were
duly appreciated both by the country and the House. It
should be recollected that these Committees were only tem-
porary, te indure throughout the session of Parliament, and
there v. zs therefore the less excuse for any Hon. Memo..
throwing the labour which he ought to bear upon the shoul-
ders of others. This resolution of the 12th of February
on'.: .enpel the Committee of Selection to the unpleasant
du• f ,rolling upon other persons to do his duty. He could
not sit 0 evn without taking that opportunity of repelling the
charge that the Members of that House had not done their
duty.—(Loud cheers.) He could bear his testimony that the
Irish Members had cheerfully, kindly and ably discharged the
duties intrusted to them, and he would especially refer to the
Hon. Member for Cork—(Hear, hear, and cheers)—who had
discharged his duties in reference to the Committees with
great readiness and extraordinary ability ; and presented in
his case. an example worthy of imitation.—( Hear, hear.) He
must now make the motion, which it became his duty to
make, and he was sorry that it should have fallen to his lot to
do so. He now begged to move, " That William Smith
O'Brien, Esq., having disobeyed the order of of the House, in
refusing to attend as one of the Committee upon the merits of
the line of railways comprised in Group 11, is guilty of a con-
tempt of the House."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL seconded the motion.
Mr. O'CONNELL was sure the House would give him the
credit of believing him when he stated that he would not rise
to advocate the line of conduct adopted by Mr. Smith
O'Brien on the present occasion, if that gentleman intended
the slightest disrespect to the House. He was quite sure that
the Hon. Member had acted from the strongest feelings of
what he conceived to be his duty, and he would not lightly de-
part from it. The House ought to pause before they took any
steps on this matter ; and there were two grounds on which
they should give it the fullest consideration. The first was,
whether the Act of Union gave the British House of Commons
any authority such as that claimed over Irish Members. There
Was no common law jurisdiction applicable to the case since
1793. The other point which he would impress upon the
House was with reference to the Committee of Selection. Of
course, he was not disposed—he was never less disposed than at
the present moment—to say anything derogatory to that Com-
mittee. Before the 12th of February last, no stringent measure
of that House had been adopted to compel the attendance of
Members of that House upon Committees. Up to that time
the attendance was voluntary, and, in many instances, it was
still voluntary. Now the question was, whether the violation
of a power delegated to a Committee was punishable as con-
tempt. The House had not the jurisdiction of the common laW
to compel the attendance of Members. The only power vas
s• atutory, and that statute was the 6th of Henry VIII., by
which it was enacted that a Member of the House should be
required to attend. If there had been a common law juris-
diction, that statute would have been totally unnecessary.
The penalty mentioned in the statute of Henry would certainly
not operate now, as it was the loss of the absent Member's
wages.—(Laughter.) If there had been a violation of any
rule, it was one adopted by a Committee which bad been
appointed by the House, and could not be considered a con-
tempt towards the House. He hoped, therefore, that the House
would pause before they decided upon the motion which had been
submitted to them.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he very deeply re-
gretted that this question had arisen, but it was absolutely nee
cessary that the House should come to a decision, and be
thought, under the circumstances in which they were planed,
by the determination which had been expressed by the lion.
Member for Limerick, that, there was no other course for then/
to take, but to adopt the resolution which had been proposed
with very great regret by his Hon. Friend the Member for Ok'
ford. That question now assumed a much more , serious
character than when it originally arose, because it was now
connected with the important considerations which had been
shortly addressed to the House by the Hon. and Learned Mew:
ber for Cork. They were not only there to consider whether
they were to interfere with the Hon. Member who had rir-
fused his ~bedience to the orders of the House, but they wee'
to consider the further important question now submitted
the House by the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork.
Whether there were not a portion of the Members of that
House_ who were beyond it conriol, who had an lel
dependent authority distinct from the authority
the House over the other Members. The Hon. Member ha",,
sent a communication to them refusing his obedience to. it"al
order which compelled his attendance on Committees ova an;
subject not connected with the local interests of the country 10,
tshich he belonged. Let the House consider for one Thwart,:
in what position it was with respect to the general questie'
then before it. In the month of February, 1846, it was OP.:
sidered necessary, in consequence of the pressure of huaine'
arising out of the number of applications for railway Billet
that this House should come to a resolution by which Cote'
mittees might be formed of all those Members who had he°
chosen by the Committee of Selection, which was itself few:.
lished by a resolution of the House in 1839. The BOOS
should not forget that in the resolution it had passed, ever/
Member of that House was supposed virtually to have giv,'f
his consent to their adoption, and the Hon. Member uef
Limerick was as much a party to that resolution as any of °,
Member from England or Scotland. The Hon. Membur le'
that time Veer no objection, as he might have done, but Vice
nutted to their resolution, which was passed for the conteenieli:er
of the House, and which bound him as well as every Nieetthe
of that House. The Hon. Member had been chosen by op
Committee of Selection to attend on a particular ctee
of railway Bills, and .he referred the Conert!tiast
in a letter which he sent to them, to a former letter °fon
session, in which—he having been chosen to serve thee
private Bill—he reused to attend, for reasons which he tier
gave, and which reasons were fully incorporated in the em'
addressed to the Committee this session. Thcrre were rem'
of that letter which it became imperative on the House OvibielP
sitter, because they were the foundation cf the reasons e" fiore•
the objection of the lion. Member der.ended. The vibic*
Member stated that he would express these opinion 4? par"
had arisen from a long formed conviction, that a Britisu f tne
liament was not compitent, through want of knowle_r
r_lg,ae,°lo,,'
people, or want of inclination, to legislate wisely for ',Jenne('
(Cheers from the Opposition.) So that the H 1
on• "ce the
a Member of the Imperial Legislature, anxious to adv"o jn
interests of every part of the empire, declares that
r.lie. Legit'
competent to perform our duty, and declares that I'6;nd
lation ought to be confined to Irish Members alone' the 1.1,91;
fuses to join with us, grounding his reasons on
of
ire
wss
sertion that none but the representatives of it
ration should legislate for Ireland. Now, "Lineeri,,,
competent for the Honourable Member for
4:4 for
to de.line attending on any Committee, which has Dily opal
object some local interest of Ireland, it would be equa