The Sun.
London, England, 1833-07-10 00:00:00

Judges for the West Riding of Yorkshire at double the
real number. He hoped that no Noble Lord, not even his
Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Wynford), would think
he used a sharp or taxing expression—(Laughter)—when
he said that nothing he had stated in the Committee at
all warranted the calculaton that the expense of the mea-
sure would be 150,0001. a year. He had never men-
tioned that the salaries of the Local Judges ought to
he 2,0001., though be had admitted that 1,500/
would, perhaps, be too little. In the whole, the
cost would not be more than 60,000/. or 70,000/. per an
num, instead of 150,0001., the sum given by his Noble and
Learned Friend. That the expense would be thrown on
the country he did not believe, though it stood so at
present in the Bill; for he had little doubt that in the
Commons provision would be made that the Judges, Re-
gisters, Bte., should be paid by fees. As to patronage,
long before he was in office—as early, in fact, as the year
1826--he had felt and expressed the strongest repugnance
to the increase of the patronage either of the Minister or
of the Crown. There was a manifest impossibility of
placing this patronage elsewhere. And these objections
to this
to the measure applied as much to every other measure as
. It was impossible to appoint one of the Judges
in Westminster-hall, or the Chief Justice, without exer-
cising patronage ; and if the objection of patronage was
to Prevail against this measure, it would equally prevail
against all other measures for securing to the people the
blessings of a due administration of justice. It was said
he had already engrossed valuable patronage ; and the
patronage of the Commissioners of Bankruptcy had been
was°mdp aer ke d' and unfavourably for him, with that of the
-tincellor under the new Bankruptcy Bill. He
'urPrised at the attempt to compare them. Why,
re Were seventy Commissioners. holding offices c0mp-
,,,,, tible With
but professional practice, and not only compatible,
er no_ even leading to professional advancement. These
10°' 464%
.nd tv a Year Which besides produced at an average 5001.
in ti each , were therefore a most desirable acquisition
that 7o the en -to Men Who had been some time in the profession.
I -sn), too, the means of choice was different. In the
and d I)
-eel ill the new Bankruptcy Court, where the men
iteres aPPointed had publicly to try the rights of litigating
tP.artieas it was necessary that a considerable pot.
' ;I°l2 of learning and experience should be united in
''" individuals possessing them. A certain license must
°&,arle be admitted, but none could be appointed except
ii."' 4 considerable degree of admitted judicial fitness.
f But the Patronage of the other appointments was very dif-
!hrint• It was the patronage of men who hsd not respon-
aviv le duties to perform—there was no jealousy of men
the I; the appointments—no interference to prevent
we-togratification of private inclination ; the appointments
Chant as unchecked as those of officers of excise, and no
%Her had ever yet been called to account for the in-
coma.
Banc*,
vae), of the men appointed to be Commissioners of
pair,,, ru r
nt.
--(Hear, hear.) This pure, unadulterated
b —.age, was now s h lopped
~(1 at on Nether that which was substituted rom
was bet ere or snot,
I thou trate he had not grasped the patronage. He had
-', had gut that eight Commissioners would be sufficient ; he.
4r; o in'aid a°' but all the rest of those who expressed their
ens. Ile;) ions on the subject, said that 10, or 12, or 15 were
Pil:etd
ath.ltuited. He had taken the smallest number; and now
there, ~d,°thneeof the Judges of the new Bankruptcy Court had
soul, vacancy had not been filled up, nor was there the
ono co Court
intention to fill it up, unless the business of the
ghte.hr nepte should so increase as to render such a step absolutely
atn -uarY. Then it had been said that the number of
01°4 be assignees would be considerable—that they would
diP aPPointed all over the country. There had been
hit u'ne a • S
sq._ Ppointed except in a few important places,
s to' 067 their presence was absolutely required. Eighteen
as II ece.al assignees were required to be appointed at
prig', c°4411," Had he appointed them? No. Were there. no
:or r,s, fro midates ? Yes, 1,200, with letters of recommendation
1. Tjut,n,an manner of friends, Parliamentary and otherwise.
7° appoint" "oirt the first he had resolved that he would not
lel
tte any one of those official assignees, but he would
II
off their appointment to gentlemen forming a committee
ie Ban eleven, composed of merchants and Directors of the
li think of England. He had taken the first eighteen of
(
0 list, and had appointed them ; so that, in fact, he
%1 nothing more to do with the patronage of their
t 4,P,Pointment than had his Noble and Learned Friend.—
t;ktlear.) Then it was said that his patronage was
already with great respect to the appointment of Juvices
of the Peace. The Magistrates themselves had more. He
scarcely ever recommended a man W•the Lord Lieutenant.
If he saw that a man was omitted from the list—a man
wilt)) for his talents, his information, and his virtues, ought
l 0
as have been put there—he then asked the Lord Lieute-
toot nt Why
. en that man was not put upon the list? and if
• 't t cause was not shown, he put in the name, and
tt tea,
It atiti.la bounden duty to do so.—(Hear, hear, Lear.)
course blB bounden
to the Lords Lieutenant to say, that this
Learned was very seldom required. How the Noble and
0, fled very
seldom
had held the Great Seal could have
.aged i,
Waa to II:" Possessor with the patronage of the Magistracy
li o h..._ Ini a matter of surprise ; and the more so, when
itiaic'es'eitervtd it introduced—he was going to say—with
is (flea ba--but, in fact, with extra-judicial gravity.—
Learr' hear, hear ; and a laugh.) The Noble and
e dote torn fled Lord said he was not a partisan, yet he
*armthn there, and, with all the zeal, all the
char. ,' and all the activity of an effective partisan, dis-
this,a', on this occasion, his aentorial duties. In doing
atone ad read a passage from an anonymous author, in
of tin anhd with a manner that insinuated that some one
telly le who beard it had read it before, if he had not ac-
toee, tva rditt” it- With that passage from a sharp, a
Lord cLO witty article, in an able publication, lie (the
rem- b eeneellor) had no previous acquaintance, till it was
iti Inui Yk_t_ile Noble and Learned Lord ; but even now that
toati„."veto read, he was prepared to say that, though the
did ci that passage might be applicable to Ireland, be
caniell°thtethin Passage might be applicable to ireland, be
lb It was so with regard to England. He
Noble 5i to h
to the question of the certainty of the law. The
Tod to , Learned Lord said that this would be put an
To prase? the operatioo of the Bill. He was mistaken.
taw right ve
the certainty and the uniformity of the Bill
lwr so f of aPpeal was given ; and in that respect the
,‘ same so
aa this Bill was concerned, would stand on the
of under as it did under the present regulation of the
Lora to; westininster Hall The Noble and Learned
i • Who „, 0 auPPorted the amendment, and the Noble Lord
reforni74'd it, both professed to, be friends to legal
tho„ So (pa
lit b I" the Noble and Learned Earl who,
/3ill s had• 1.. as eitb said nothing, was as great an enemy of this
,_eareed Lorde of the Noble Lords. The Noble and
user, , who
- totes o bad supported the amendment had
Eve Nears
and a half in possession of the Great
to Year% to o_uble and Learned Earl had been twenty.
~,. reforio 7ellsion--and they had not made an attempt
tribune_ the ,
.3 - law. They (who neither erected new
°..f reformil,,.°l. reformed the old), now that a measure
,' Its and
ivi7as brought in, only stated that they opposed
it anewin.,,......zaj ered,
(1°? they "ell they were asked what they would
" Oh, you must find that out your-
; 'ilt augh.) They would oppose all that men
„,..oixopound.....they would propound none themselves.
44 Bic hear.) To say that the grievances for which
they ~ Wits a remedy were not crying grievances—that
hesr,"cce not matter of desperation--was what be had
refer-" with surprise. To show that they were, he should
the t 0 two bills of costs incurred in the court in which
it,. Ooble and Learned Lord presided, and had been
jo:,l,rred since those late regulations for cheapening
i"ee. In one of these cases judgment had gone by
'.4lits and the costs amounted to 13/. What was the
otu,nt of the debt? Ten pounds.—(Hear, hear.) In
81uers the plaintiff recovered his demand, with
other• 10d• Of this sum, 71. were disallowed—in
Avie,,int"rdas the plaintiff had paid more than he got in
drylas taoll'ht. Cause. But what did their Lordships think
that,
afteur_ject of contest? A sum of 71. 19s. Gd. So
et against (41! Year's litigation, and the chance of a ver-
-1
.pocket hi Year's
the plaintiff succeeded, and got 19s. 6d.
tog tie_ !here was another case from the Court of
he pkintuiff• . The costs were 115/. for each. party.
iltelveliovz:td July paid 49i,
4'9l'll;e trlheaftendhleint7ovfecrowurasse:Peapiadidal;i
hishe
dish *. arriounti
,1 Pute was 16i rig to 151. The amount of the sum in
1 °tent st, • aud nu Well might Lord Hale
Ira e ebou more.
WT....We1l nii 1 ge of the ancient jurisdictions of the coun-
N-Lie law,
no_ gilt that illustrious Judge, and true friend of
ed'
._," did not wait till other men proposed re-
ant
.._ion thee oppose them—(Hear, hear)—and meet
!ilil wilh car • out to Nog declamatory sneering, but who was
oPPI? the lungeitZi the rotten part of the system, to
;that Ual
tile anti a
,h witi, t° cut them away, that the rest might
healthier vigour—well might be exclaim
Zee for the ancient
constitution was changed, and sigh for
too teethe tot When justice was brought home on
(1, might kr. trhe door of the poor man ; and well,
one no longer duetice Blackstone complain that those
kill., eXisted Possessed their old jurisdiction, which 4 'ugh he neficially for the country at large
!lot'4 si, . ought toadd, however, that Lord Hale
he
1 01.
„,,, mo.re in
tithe
seventeenth century Gun 40s. had
of the statute of Gloucester); and
klaielnight hot me
add the sanction of their valuable
itt3t4t,aretaill fw.a"huart of the advantage of these local judi-
ylsstnarit,tru teridoet:
th',4l/, nor d
that. which said we will
7,jtil.stice ? What but Ma,;na
bis,
eoltly
price?
was
.6,cling, to
tki"4? Yet
denying,
give it only at it
tk, 10 those who could affordl to give it
It it en. ,nog'
. pay that • . god
1/4 tk . eenying justice wii ' price .ur a
_ll , en, instead of waitin a
toy th, the poor man Was made to run toe

the I
;ted 1
n thel
t tbel
thee
wise

p-tedo
)rereel
ned

verig‘
'rieod
irgul

to vil
froth
,ho v,

inspo
411e''
trate

es W
g.

:heir
!rtes
!icy
cards

Jll
,

ow
polo
Dent:
aioBl
ig i'l
per,:

oble
had
'log,
0'

lire
~,,,,
Vll
$o

gauntlet of Westminster Hall for two years, and, after
winning his suit, to have to pay more than he gained
by it ? He held it that it was the bounden duty of
that House to afford a remedy to these evils ; that the
time was come beyond which they could not delay it.
He was sure they felt all the anxiety and all the in-
clination to afford that remedy—he was perfectly con-
vinced that they had all no party or personal dislike, no
foolish antiquated prejudices that could make them refuse a
slight change in what was now the law of the country.
—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was accused of recommending
a Jury of six. He was not the first innovator in that
respect. A Bill in which that proposition was made had
been proposed years ago by Lord Redesdale, and now
stood on the records of that House. He asserted that this
was the poor man's Bill, which would enable him to obtain
justice at a cheap rate—to obtain it in the next strett,
instead of having to travel 100 miles for it; which would
enable him, without anxiety—without taking him from
his daily labour, which was his daily bread—without
carrying away his substance from his family, which had
now but barely enough to maintain itself—without that
ruinous destruction of time—without any diversio❑ from
his labour, would enable him to met his Judge, to go into
Court, and to obtain redress if he had suffered injustice. Yet
the Noble and Learned Lord told him that this was not the
poor man's Bill, because there would be a speedy execution
of judgment. Why, any speedy execution of judgment
for him was in his favour; and if he enjoyed that benefit,
and got for a few shillings more than he could now get
for a greater number of pounds, he could not compla'n
that the same measure was afterwards rendered to him,
and that he was compelled to pay the same attention to
his creditor which he had formerly demanded from his
debtor.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that this was nut
the poor man's Bill, because he could not find security
for costs if he should wish to remove the action to
the superior Courts. The clause as to removing
actions was suggested by the late Chief Justice of
the Court of Common Pleas, and inserted at his desire.
But the poor man was not likely to wish to remove
the suit to a more expensive Court ; and if his wealthy
opponent attempted it, he must do so at the risk of having
ultimately to pay all the costs which such a proceeding
bad occasioned. There had been whispers as to what
would be the fate of this Bill. He would not believe
them; be would not believe, till they convinced him by
their votes, that they would refuse to pass this Bill. He
would conceal nothing from them—he would affect no-
thing—he would be frank with them. He was not there
to flatter them—he neither gave it nor would take it ; he
would neither be its victim nor its dispenser; he would
state the plain truth, which, be it less palatable, was much
fairer, and he told them plainly that, it this Bill was
thrown out, it would in no way whatever relax any efforts
of his in the cause of Law Reform ; and whoever expected
that it would damp or discourage him in the prosecution
of measures for the good of the King's sul•jects, reckoned
without his host.—(Hear, hear.) But if be said that he
should feel no mortification in such a result—that he
should not be somewhat discouraged—somewhat almost in
desp tir—he should be misleading them, for he confessed
that, when he took office, his great and primary motive
was, to enjoy the opportunity of using his official influence
on behalf of Law Reform, and to propose these important,
though cautious, prudent, and safe measures of
Reform ; and, therefore, though he proposed mea-
sures whiah he might think too moderate, and inadequate
to the important object he had in view, and almost
useless as compared with that which they would have
shown, by their votes, to be impracticable, he should
still propose them, because, with their Lordships,
they were practicable ; and he should still be ready,
even in one-half inch of the way, if he could get
no further, to accompany them. But be was not the
only person whom they must expect to be disappointed.
It might a little damp his hopes, but the hopes of the
country—the instant that was mentioned, he thought it
would excite a smile among Noble Lords—(No, no)—as
it the most judicious course for them to pursue was, to
show an utter disregard of all such considerations—(Loud
cries of " No, nu, no")—as if they did not care whether
those hopes were damped or not.—(Renewed cries of
" No, no, no.") Well, then, it was untrue that they did
not care whether those hopes were damped.—(Hear,
hear.) He was glad to hear it; he was sure that they
would deeply lament a step that would frustrate the
expectations of their fellow•subjects.—(Hear, hear.) He
rejoiced in the manner in which his observation had been
received ; and feeling confident that that w•as their frame
of mind, he was bound from thence to infer, and on that
intimation he should believe, that they Lad at last deter-
mined not to throw out the Bill, which was to secure
cheap justice, administered at home and directly to the
poor man, and which they could not reject without de-
claring that the hopes of the poor for cheap, speedy, offer•
tive, and easily attainable justice, were not to be realized.
—(Cheers.)

The House then divided, when the numbers appeared—
Present. Proxies.
For the original question Bl 41
Against it

Majority for rejecting the word "now" 12
When these numbers were announced several Peers left
the House, but it appeared that a second division was
necessary in order finally to decide the question. The
gallery was again cleared, and, upon the amendment of
Lord Wharncliffe that the words " this day six months"
be inserted, the House again divided, when the numbers,
independent of proxies (which were not counted this time),
appeared—

For the amendment 73
Against it
Final majority against the Bill -5

In the minority were included, it was said, the only
five Bkhops who happened to be in the House, the Rev.
Prelate of Exeter having quitted immediately the first di-
vi ion was over. On the other hand the majority would
have been increased by three, bad it not been that Peers
to that number only reached the House after the question
had been put, and they were consequen'ly obliged to remit
their votes,'not having been present when the motion upon
which the House divided was read.
The Home adjourned at two o'clock.