The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-15 00:00:00

MR. W. S. O'BRIEN.

Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition, having appended
to it 7,000 signatures, praying for the release of Mr. W. Smith
O'Brien.

BANGOR AND ST. ASAPH.

Mr. BORROUGHS presented a petition against the
union of the see.; of Bangor and St. Asaph.

TEN HOURS LABOUR BILL.

Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE presented two petitions, very nu-
merously and respectably signed, in favour of the restriction of
labour to ten hours.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. PIERCE BUTLER gave notice that on Thursday
next he should move for the appointment of a Select Com-
mittee to inquire into the right of the House to en-
force the attendance of its Members on Committees and,
into its authority for inflicting the punishment of im-
prisonment for non-attendance. Further to inquire how
far such practice was sanctioned by the law of the land, and
how far the usage was in accordance therewith.
POOR-LAW.

Mr. P. SCROPE gave notice of his intention on a future
day to move for leave to bring in a Bill to extend to Ireland
the present poor-law of England.

POOR LAW IMPROVEMENT BILL.

Captain PECHELL wished to know it the Right Hon.
Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department had dropped
his design of carrying on the Poor-law Improvement Bill?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM had no such intention, bat the
business of the House had rendered it necessary for the sake
of public convenience, to postpone its consideration for the
present. It was understood that after the Corn-law Bill had
been read a third time the Factory Bill should be brought
under discussion. He believed this was stated in the House
last night, and that it was in accordance with the general
feeling of the Members then present ; he hoped, therefore, that
the Hon. and Gallant Officer would not press for the reading
of the Bill of which he had spoken, but would accede to the
arrangement which had been entered into on this business.
After a few words from Mr. VER:i ON SMITH the sub-
ject dropped.
RAILWAYS DISSOLUTION BILL.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said there was another Bill which
had been read a second time, and on which it had been ar-
ranged that the discussion on the motion for going into com-
mittee should take place—he meant the Railways Dissolution
Bill. He trusted no time would be lost in allowing the House
the opportunity of expressing its opinion on the measure.
Sir R. PEEL said it was important that the sense of the
House should be taken on the Bill at the earliest day, so that
the measure might be proceeded with. He should do all he
could to facilitate that object.
EAST INDIA COMPANY.—ANNUITIES TO LORD
HARDINGE AND LORD GOUGH.

Mr. HOGG rose to ask leave to introduce two Bills to au-
thorise the East India Company to grant annuities of 5,0001.
and 2,0001. per annum respectively to Lord Hardinge and
Lord Gough, for their recent brilliant services in the
East Indies. He hopes no obstable would be placed in the
way of forwarding those measures.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that, so far from offering any ob-
stacle in the way of their progress, he would do everything in
his power to hasten them forward.
Mr. H UME wished to know when an opportunity would be
given of discussing the merits of the Bills for granting Pensions
to Lords Hardinge and Gough, because it might happen
that those Bills might pass at a late period of the
night, without an opportunity being afforded of discussing
them at all. He wished to have an opportunity of
making some remarks respecting them, because he had an ob-
jection to grant pensions to pers ,ns whose descendants were
unable to maintain the dignity of the profession, and because
the time had come when they ought to require her Majesty not
to grant peerages which must be kept up at the expense of the
country. With all due delerence to the House, he
must .say that he thought this plan of granting
peerages for two or three lives, and then leaving
those upon whom the honour had descended destitute,
was a reprehensible practice, and ought at once to be abrogated.
In the case of Lord Hardinge, for instance, the honour con-
ferred upon him would not last longer than the ordinary dura-
tion of two lives, because he was aiivanced in yews. He urged
the same arguments several years ago, in the case of Lord
Keane, but he was opposed to the House, and was there-
fore unsuccessful. He repeated that he considered tne
time had arrived when the Government ought to
consider whether it was politic to grant titles when
there was no property to maintain it, for wherever this was
done they had the Peer and his family quartered upon the
public—( Great laughter)—and there was no getting a
head of him or his progeny for generations.—( Roars of
laughter.) He did not wish to particularise individuals,
but, if they created an aristocracy, it ought not to be main-
tained by the public purse —(Hear, hear.) It was true the
customs of the country precluded them from following any
avocation by which they could maintain themselves, but it did
not preclude them from having families.--( Continued
laughter.) He was willing to discuss the question during
the present debate, but as the Bill had passed, it would be un-
necessary for him to do so ; but he thought it was really
a question for the House to take up—whether, when
future were conferred on individuals who had not the power of
supporting them, and which would consequently have to be
supported at the expense of the country, it would be politic to
grant them. It was the system he complained of, and not
the individuals. He hoped, however, that the House would
have an opportunity of discussing the Bills in the daylight.
Sir ROBERT PEEL spoke a few words in reply to what
had fallen from the Hon. Member for Montrose, but in so low
a tone of voice as to be quite inandable in the gallery. The
Right Hon. Baronet, however, was understood that it
was rather hard for the Hon. Member to predic'
that the life of Lord Gough was not worth a nionthst
purchase. It was net the fault of Government, that Bills of
this nature had not been brought on till a late hour of the
night.—( Hear, hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. CARDWELL moved that the House, at its rising, do
adjourn till Monday next.—Agreed to.
Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE, seeing the Honourable Gentle-
man the Secretary for the Treasury, he wished to ask him a
question with reference to the Post.office abuses he had lately
brought under the consideration of the House. He had been
given to understand that the speech he made on a recent
occasion had leen placed in the hands of Mr. Pea-
cock, the Solicitor to the Post-office, to inquire
into the charges which it contained, notwithstanding it had
been stated that they were groundless. He wished to know,
then, whether his information was correct or not. He under-
stood, also, that some of the letter-carriers were taken before
Mr. Peacock to be examined touching those charges,
but, upon asking for a pledge to be held harmless if
they proved them, it was refused.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
The inquiry was one which ought to be conducted in such a
manner as to give satisfaction to the public. He wished,
therefore, to know whether the Honourable Gentleman would
have any objectiion to produce the evidence which was taken,
and to inform the House of the result of that inquiry.
Mr. CARDWELL would confine himself to an explanation
of the course which had been pursued under the circumstances
referred to by the Hon. Gentleman. The Postmaster-General,
being desirous to have a full investigation into the whole ques-
tion connected with the sub-sorters, considered it judicious
that the inquiry should be conducted by gentlemen who were
not connected with the Pest-office department, and therefore
he appointed the solicitor of the Post-office to con-
duct the investigation. At first the President of the Inland
department, and the inspector of the lette-carriers were ap-
pointed conjointly with him, but in consequence of one of the
witnesses objecting to be examined in the presence of these
two gentlemen, the soliciter afterwards conducted the exami-
nation alone; it must be obvious, therefore, to the Hon. Gen-
tleman that he (Mr. Cardwell) could give ne further infor-
mation upon the subject until the report of the inquiry was
made.

Air. T. DUNCOMBE said that he would move that a copy
of that report should be laid upon the table.
Mr. CARD►WELL %ould have no objection.
VALUATION OF IRELAND. _ _

Sir DENHAIII NORRIS asked the Noble Lord the Secre-
tary for Ireland. if the Government proposed to bring in a Bill
this session relative to the valuation of land in Ireland ?

Lord LINCOLN said that it was proposed to bring in a Bill
on that subject, which would be the same in substance as that
introt.uced last year; but in the present state of public busi-
ness he could not pledge himself at what period he would be
enabled to introduce it.

Sir D . NORREYS wished to know whether the Noble
Lord was aware that all valuations which at present took place
in Ireland were illegal.
Lord LINCOLN said that he was aware of the fact, and a
Bill would be introduced this session to remedy the evil.

It was then agreed that the House at its rising do adjourn to
Monday next.
CORN BILL—ADJOURNED DEBATE.

__,..
upon the Corn Bill was resumed by
The adjourned debate
the Houseupt this amidst
subjectmoch
He said that argument
contusion.
I was however fearful that the Bill
He e addressed
d
NcobulsetomLosr.d tThhealltlecirnubees-r
had been exhausted
Mr. COLQUHOUN. we-hoaddre
asked the Right lion. Baronet a question with
for Lynn had
certain returns from 1 itiehe
would pass notwithstanding..
nehetadtobeen answered by the Right Honourable Baronet.
He thought that he might remind the Right Hun. Baronet
that he had declared, in his opinion, the price of wheat would
not exceed 355. per quarter.
Sir ROBERT PEEL dissented from this declaration.
Mr. COLHUHOUN (lid not wish to misinterpret the
Right Hon. Baronet, but he certainly must remind him,
that he had stated as one of his reasons for advoCating
the chsnge in tl.e corn duties that the price of wheat, when ad-
m.tted at the lower duties, would not be reduced below 355. a
quarter. He would refer also to the admission made to the
Hon. Member for Leeds, by whom this declaration had been
doubted. The declaration was mode in reference to the year
1835, when wheat was not more than from 395. to 40s. a
quarter.
Sir R. PEEL—I was asked by the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for London what I believed would be the price of wheat
if foreign corn were admitted duty free, and I stated that, with
an unrestricted trade in corn, I did not think, judging from
the experience of 1835, that the price of wheat would fall be- 1
low 355. a quarter.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. COLQUHOUN—This did then in effect tally with what he had stated—that the price of wheat under a system of
unrestricted import, would not fall below 355., anal it would
B
now appear that the Right Honourable
"Baronet hoped t
He was persuaded that
that the price would net be less than 30s. a
quarter.
if this statement of the prices that
would ensue from the repeal of the corn-laws wa.x correct, that
.
given, $9 all the manut ac• a. great shock $1,91414 be

turing, commercial, and agricultural interests of the
eountry.—( Hear, hear.) It had been by such repre-
sentations about the prices of corn under firs law, that
the present state of the country had been created, but they
were founded in hopes which, if realised, would lead to a
general panic. They ought to be taught by what to( k
place in 1835, what had been referred to by the Right Hon.
Baronet, and the history of which had been given by Mc.
Wils,,e, the Chairman of the Anti-Corn-law League.
Mr. COBDEM was understood to say, that the Mr.
son referred to, was not the Chairman of the League.
Mr. COLQUHOUN—Then he was one who had some con-
nexion with that body, and who was to give an opinion on the sub-
ject. Mr. Wilson said that the effect of the proceedings of 1535
was to give a false direction to capital, and to increase
manufacturing products in such a ratio as to glut the
market, and to produce the disastrous state of things that
follow( d. The prodeedings (.f 1835, and the years that imme•
diately preceded and followed, were years of speculation and fic-
titious trailing, inevitably producing the general stagnation that
took place in 1841. The Hight Hon. Baronet and the Right Hen.
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade had stated
that prices will not fall if this measure is carried, and the
Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary for the Home
Department said there will be no great fall in prices. He
further said he expected that there would be great
steadiness in it. He (Mr. Colquhoune) was satis-
fied, however, that if he could not convince
the Right Hon. Gentlemen of the fallacy of this expectation.
He would be able to satisfy the House that there was no hope
whatever of the rate of prices being such as they expected.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

LAW iN TELLIGEN CE,
COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, May 14.
(Sittings at Nisi Prius, before Mr. Justice WIGHTMAN acd
Common Juries.)
HOOPER V. ISI'DONALD.
This action was brought by a newspaper agent to recover
from the defendant the amount of a bill for advertisements
inserted in the London papers fcr the announcement of a pro'
ject which was called the Cape of Good Hope Western R. 411-
way, which was brought forward in August last, and of
which the defendant was a provisional committeeman. The
amount of the bill as 450/., and it was made up of money
paid by the plaintiff for the insertion of the advertisements,
and of a demand for his personal trouble in procuring the
insertion.

Mr. KNowtEs (with whom was Mr. Francillon, stated
the plaintiff's case to the jury in a short, but amusing ad-
dress.

Colonel Lothian Dixon was then called and sworn— He
said that he held an office under the Crown at the Cape, and
that he was a director of the project in question. The wit-
ness, by the direction of the defendant himself, caused the
defendant's name to be inserted in the list of the committee,
which he attended upon one occasion.
Cross-examined—Major M'Donald, upon having been ap-
pointed a provisional committeeman, declared himself dis-
satisfied, as he had expected to be made a director. This was,
however, after his appointment as a provisional committee-
man had actually been made.
_ _

Mr. OldershaNV, the attorney of the company, stated that
all the insertions had been either directed or sanctioned by
the witness and by the board.
Another witness proved that the plaintiff had paid every
farthing of the bill to the several newspapers in which the
advertisements had been inserted.

Mr. HAYWARD appeared upon the part of the defendant,
and contended that the authority which the defendant had
given Colonel Dixon to put his name upon the committee
was coupled with the condition of his being made a director,
and that, not having been so appointed, he took no further
trouble upon the subject. In such circumstances the Learned
Counsel contended that the evidence was not sufficient to
establish the liability of the defendant.
The jury, under the direction of the Learned Judge, found
a verdict fur the plaintiff for the whole amount.

INSOLVENT DEBTORS' COURT, May 14.
(Before the CHIEF COMMISSIONER and Mr. Commissioner
POLLOCK.)
IN RE THE REV. CHABLIS WETHERELL.
The rule in this case for the rescinding of the vesting
order was specially appointed for this day.
The insolvent, whose name is unfortunately too notorious,
obtained a rule nisi on the ground that the petitioning cre-
ditor, Mr. Thurmott, a coal-merchant, of Bedford-strest,
Strand, had been induced to take that step by means of
fraudulent representations on the part of other persons, and
that he was new willing that the vesting order should be
annulled.

To-day Mr. Cooke appeared in support of the rule, and
Mr. Nicholls and Mr. Dowse to show cause.
Affidavits on the part of the respondents were read front
several parties—one of whom, William Revell, a creditor
of the insolvent's to the extent of 10.11., swore that ha
had applied to Mr. Thurrnott to obtain the vesting order,
that the insolvent's estate might be preserved for the
creditors. He also stated that he had seen Mr. Thur"
motes attorney (Mr. Moseley) on the subject. The affi-
davit of John Mvnde Cooke stated that the insolvent
was in custody at the suit of Mr. Langston for the sum of
14,4841., the amount of a judgment in an action of covenant
on the post-nuptial settlement of deponent's wife and insol-
vent's daughter ; that the insolvent had named as trustee
Lord Glenelg, without that nobleman's sanction, who refused
to act; and, consequently, Mr. Langston, deponent's brother-
in-law, was the only trustee; that insolvent's daughter, on.
obtaining her majority, had become entitled to a tortilla() of
about 21,000/., which had been expended by the insolvent in
about two years; that 14,4801. is the amount admitted by
the insolvent to be due to his daughter as part of the
sum obtained from her, and it was settled that seques-
tration should issue against the insolvent's living at
Byfield, Northamptonshire; that the insolvent had en-
deavoured to avail himself of an inaccuracy to the at-
estation of the warrant of attorney given as collateral secu-
rLy ; that insolvent had brought a writ of error against Mr.
Langston, but deponent was advised and believed that there
were no grounds for it, and that it had only been brought
by the insolvent for the purpose of annoyance.
Mr. NICHOLLS commenced his arguments against the rule
by urging that the best evidence of the motives by which
the creditor had been actuated in obtaining the vesting order,
viz., his own, had not been prucluced. It was insinuated that
King and Cooke had induced him by fraudulent representa-
tions to obtain the vesting order, and that he was now willing
to its being annulled. The next best evidence, that of Mr.
Moseley, the petitioning creditor's attorney, was not forth-
coming, and the whole case rested upon refined and subtle
statements.

The COURT intimated that the affidavits of the gentleman
referred to were highly desirable. _
Mr. COOKE hoped the Court would permit him to put them
in now.

Mr. Commissioner POLLOCK said the insolvent knew what
he had asserted, and should have been prepared to support
his statement. The affidavit of Mr. Thurmott and Mr•
Moseley could not be received now.

The Learned CHIEF COMMISSIONER expressed his opinion
that the absence of these affidavits was conclusive, and com-
pelled the Court to dismiss the rule.
Mr. Commissioner Pot.LocE concurred.
Mr. Nn-mou.s applied for costs from the estate.
Mr. Commissioner PoLLocx said the Court could not forget
that Mr. Thurmott had been set in metion by some persons,
and that all the detaining creditors except Mr. Langston were
willing that the vesting order should be rescinded.
Rule discharged. Costs refused.

THE: CROPS IN GEORGIA.—The Macon Advocate of
the 20th instant says:—.We learn from a gentleman who has just returned from a tour through Baker, Lee, Sumter,Dooly
and other counties in Sout-Western Georgia, that the crops
of small grain, particularly wheat, were never more pry.
mining than at present. The corn looks well, but cotton,
in consequence of the wet and cool weather experienced in
that section for some time past, appeared rather backward,
and in some places fears were entertained that it would die,
and the land have to be re-planted. The weather having
become clear and pleasant, however, with a prospect of
continuing so, the plants may revive, and prove thriftyul
the end.

Mr. C. K. Murray had an interview with the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer yesterday, at his official regideucs
in Downing-street.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
ROUSE OF COMMONS, Mayl4.
MR. SMITH O'BRIEN.
Mr. O'CONNELL presented petitions from Dublin, Re
several other places in Ireland, regretting the detention of 141-•
Smith O'Brien in custody, and stating their belief that it was
unjustifiable in a constitutional view.
Mr. P. SCROPE presented a petition from the poor 0f
Ballingarry, stating that they received sixpence a day with two.
meals during the winter from the farmers in their district, aao
that they received eightpence a day during the summer, makia#
an average of sevenpence a day, and with what they receiv•id
they were obliged to pay debts incurred during scarce seasotif
and for the credit which they received then they were oblige('
to pay a most usurious interest. The petition was signed 1,1
upwards of 300 persons. It appeared by this petition there
were 600 families at the present moment in a state of star-
vation, whom it was the bounden duty of the Legislature to
relieve.

CORN-LAWS.
Sir John Easthope, Lord George Bentinck, Mr. Esteourt,
and Mr. Hawes presented petitions on the aorn-laws.
MAYNOOTH.
Mr. P. BORTHWIcK stated that he had postponed his
motion the other nigt.t on the Poor-law Settlement Bill its
consideration of the debate on the corn-law, and he should
bring it on this day fortnight.
preserveda
which provided
re-
peal
Mr.o of
It'hLeUBAt
h and l
E Victoria, 9thfor the
the College of Maynooth out of the public funds.
ROMAN CATttOLIC RELIEF. a grant for
Mr. B. ESTCOTT presented a pt tition from Richmond,'
in Surrey, in favour of the Roman Catholic Disabilities Be-
lief Bill.

THE RAILWAY MEETINGS.
Sir JOHN EASTHOPE wished to ask the Right
Iron-
Baronet at the head of the Government, supposing of scripholders in a particular railway company to be held
before the Bill passed through Committee, and the Bill after-
wards passed•the Committee, whether, if the Committee should
holder§
materially alter the Bill, another meeting of the scrip
would be necessary ?
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that his answer to that questi°3
was, that he did not think it requisite for any further meeting
of the seripholders to be held in order to obtain a third read-
ing
ing to the Bill. The resolutions of the Government did
not, render it obligatory to hold a further meeting, and he did
think such a course at all desirable.
GAME-LAWS
e-liort
Mr. J. COLLETT postponed his motion on the gad'
a meeting
until Monday nest.

Mr. DUNCOvenient for the Government
A C ThO e
dR to kno
toS BILLwh
it would
thbeer
ceoenn.:
ay
sideration of the Factories Bill?
Sir H. PEEL proposed to adhere to the plan which be had
made some time since with respect to the progress of
business. He intended, in the first place, to go on with the
Corn Bill, and, immediately after that Bill was disposed of,
should proceed with the tariff; and as several gentlemen
expressed a desire to have a discussion on the Settlement Bill'
it would be advisable to take the outline of that Bill before
going into Committee. He should take the tariff immediately
alter the Corn Bill, and then proceed with the discussion oz
:s
the Settlement Bill. With respect to the Factory Bill, be pot
willing to give the earliest day that he could which would;...
interfere with the progress of the more important public
ness. He could not name the exact da which he was wIl!".
to set apart for the Factories Bill, but it should be the earliest
day possible after the Bills he had mentioned had been °'
posed of.

CASE OF MR. TOULMIN SMITH.
Mr. SPOONER moved for a Select Committee to consider
the petitions of Mr. Tod.rain Smith, and the papers presented
to the House relative to the case stated in those petitions.
Mr. WAKLEY thought it would be inconsistent for the
Hon. Gentleman to press his motion at that period, when
there was public business of so great importance before tht
House.
Air. SPOONER said, it would not be ocnsistent, in his
opinion, with public duty, if he did not proceed with the'
motion of which he had given notice. The character of a 0143

of high respectability had been publicly aspersed, and he really
felt that he would not be doing ju-tice to his own conscience if
he consented to postpone the motion. It would not be neces-
sary to detain the House at any great length. He had two
objet's in view. The first was to put Mr. Smith right with
that House and with the public, and secondly he intended to
call the attention of the House to the imperfect state of the
law, which allowed so gross an indignity to be put on Mr.
Toulmin Smith, with a •iew to having it altered. The
short statement of the facts was that a member
of the legal profession, at home, in the middle of the day,
had his house entered by two policemen and an
excise officer, under the pretence of searching for an il-
licit still. The only ground upon which the warrant to search
the house was granted, was an assertion contained in an ano-
nymous letter, that a Mr. Smith, of a certain place, was keep•.
ing an illicit still. The Hon. Gentleman then read some ex-
tracts of a statement made by the servants of the family, to
prove the alarm that was occasioned among them by the en-
trance of the police with the exciseman, who searched every
room in the house. It was conduct which ought not to be to-
lerated. There was another question which ought to be con-
sidered, and that was the cower of the Principal Secretrary of
State.—(Order, order.) He would not impute that the ma
gistrate was in fault. On a full investigation of this inquiry, he
believed that the Government would grant that inquiry. Would
they leave this question to that inquiry? He believed that
they would, and in order to prevent fraud, the
most scotching inquiry ought to he made. If that
inquiry were to be made. he felt assured that it
would be granted. He asked for inquiry, and be there-
fore requested the inquiry, because if they brought in the Bill
there would be cause of such an outcry that would altogether
preclude the opportunity of an inquiry. On these grounds he
should move for e Select Committee for inquiry.

Mr. NEWDF,GATE seconded the motion.
Mr. CARDWELL felt that on the only ground on which the
petition rested there was no discussion, but that which had
reference to the inquiry into the character of Mr. Toulmin
Smith. What actually took place was this. The Commissioner
on the 15th of March had made a report on which the report
was founded. Now it happened that the Commissioner had
been absent from his place of business on other business con-
nected with the office, and the officer acting at the time had
sough the necessary warrant, and did obtain that warrant
although its grounds were perfectly unjustifiable. That
officer did obtain the warrant. He would not deny that this
was unjustifiable, because he believed that it was not required
by the Act. The supervisor had proceeded on the authority
which he derived from the magistrate, and with
a policeman had proceeded to the premises, and had
gone over them. In the course of this inquiry the parties had
found that there was a summer house in which there was a
chimney, and in retiring from the premises there had been an
acknowledgment on the part of the Commissioner, or rather of
the officer engaged by the Commissioner that, there was no in-
tention whatever on their part to bring this accusation. A
recent communication had shown, both from letters of the officer
himself as well as from the proceedings of the office, that no spirit
of malice whatever had existed. It was the rule of the office of
Excise that on the Thursday every breach of these regulations
should be reported to the Commissioners of Excise. They
did not receive that report until the Thursday, and they only
then received it from the letters which his Hon. Friend had
read. Mr. Card well then read letters to show the facts which
he had stated, that the petitioner (Mr. Smith) had
felt the proceeding to be a grievance. The answer of the
Commissioners of Excise was that in answer to the letter of Mr.
Smith they felt it necessary to inquire of the officer, but that they
would decide after they had get that information. The collec-
tor of Excise, as the Commissioners supposed, had la d infor-
mation before a magistrate. and if there was anything unjust
or tyrannical they would revise the magistrate's decision.
Mr. Smith by improper means got possessed of a written apo-
logy from Mr. Mann, and made use of it afterwards in pub-
lic, and refused to forego his action. The apology which he
had now in his posses-ion was given without prejudice. Mr.
Mann had been " reprimanded " by the Commissioners of
Excise for what he had done in this matter ; and he (Mr.
Cardwell) begged to explain to the House the meaning of that
word amongst the officers of Excise. To " reprimand" a man
in the employ of the Excise Commissioners was to deprive him
of the possibility of promotion for three years. As to the
question of damages, that was a cAse which the laws of Eng-
land left in the hands of the jury; and they would decide—
not upon the mere amount of damages as claimed--but the
real injury which would be sustained. The Excise had under
it six thousand persons, and was presided over with great
ability by a Noble Lord, who was a Member of that House.
The present case was one of the abuse of law ; the person
committing that abuse had been punished. So far as these
things were concerned there was no need whatever for Parlia.
Tentery interference, and so far as he was concerned his Hon.
Friend had stated that for sixty years the public had felt no in-
convenience whatever. There was, therefore, no need for
further inquiry.
Mr. MUNTZ considered that an opinion which fell from
the Hon. Member who had just sat down, at the commencement
of his speech, was a very strange one. If a person were to enter
his house without a warrant he would break his head. That
would be the.most speedy and summary way of doing justice.
Sir T. WILDE said the motion of his Hon. Friend was
founded on an act of public aggression. Mr. Smith, he be-
lieved, was a special pleader of considerable talent, and who
bore a high character. There had been nothing in the nature
of the visit of Mr. Mann at all exceeding what would be
necessary for an officer in the discharge of his duty ; there was ,
a great difference between a visit of that kind and a merely
complirnentat y visit.—( Hear, hear.) The excuse for entering
the House was certainly a very strange one. It was this,
that in some hes not worse than his own he had found an
illicit still, therefore he searched his house. The law
required consideration by the House, and he thought
the Committee should be appointed. He did not think, with
a view to Mr. T. Smith's case, there was any necessity for a
Committee; but the public really ought to have some protec •
tion against these unwarrantable attacks by public officers ct,
their property. He considered that the magistrate, in issuing
his warrant upon the application of an individual whose only
ground of suspicion was an anonymous letter, had rendered
himself unfit for his situation as a public magistrate. There
was gross misconduct on the part of the officer for swearing to
a circumstance which he did not know to be a fact.
But there was greater misconduct in the magistrate
who granted the warrant upon insufficient grounds. What wag
the safety of the public if such conduct is tolerated? Did it
not deserve some severer punishment than a loss of a chance of
preferment? If a gentleman's house is to be searched on the
authority of an anonymous letter, so much the worse for the
public. —(Hear, hear ) It was at present uncertain whether
the officer deceived the magistrate as to the facts of the case.
But if he did not deceive the magistrate, his conduct was most
reprehensible, and the public had a right to be made aware of
the circumstances, and an inquiry ought to be granted.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, that he was at a loss
to know what was the real object of the Hon. Gentleman's
motion for an inquiry. No person had defended the conduct
of the officer. The Government did not defend it ? What
then was the object of the inquiry ? Not into the facts—they
had been already admitted—but far the purpose of deciding
whether the Commissioners had done enough for the punish-
ment of the officer. But the House should recollect that
illicit stills had been discovered in the very same neighbour-
hood, in houses far superior in appearance to that of Mr
Smith. And his Hon. Friend should remember, that at times
the ouly method of reaching frauds committed upon the revenue
was through the means of anonymous information. The col-
lector put the case into the hands of an experienced officer, one
who had been employed 'or more than two-and-thirty years by
the revenue, and had always conducted himself well. He
considered, however, that the officer had not acted cautiously
in the matter, nor should the House deem that he was defend)
ing his conduct on that occasion, for he did not consider that
persons should come before a magistrate and make ()Ohs upon
loose information ; and if the magistrate did not see that such
was done, he admitted he was hardly justified in granting a war-
rant. However, Mr. Smith had his remedy against the officer,
for he had an action against him, and could recover damages.
It. was asserted that great violence had been done in the execu-
tion of the warrant; but let the House remember that Mr. Smith
had in his letter to the Commmissioners laid them at 101., and
now he came before the House and told them that it was not a
p_erroal, but a public question. This was the way. Mr.
Numb, disappointed in his personal views, made it a public
question. Mr. Smith was not an illiterate man, and his con-
duct upon that occasion ought to be narrowly looked to. He
took advice of eminent counsel, and was advised ghat he
could maintain an action, and obtain damages for 5001.
He sought an interview with the officer, and endeavoured to
obtain a written apology from him, which would implicate the
magistrate, so that he might be afterwards able to put him, as
witness, into the box, and obtain a mass of evidence. The
officer offered every apology
.which a man could offer, but he
refused to implicate the magistrate. He would ask, what was
meant by asking for this Committee ? If it was called for upon
public gronnds, he would maintain owes that it was necessary for
the Excise to have the extended ps whicthey possessed
for the detention of subtle evasions of the excise-laws. The
law was perfectly well known, and had been in operation for a
number of years, and he considered it necessary for the pro-
tection of the revenue. No one attempted to defend the con-
duct of the excise-officer in the present case, but it war a case
with which the House ought not to interfere. Ir. Toulmin
Smith brought his action in a court of justice, and this wa:
still pending. It would be worse than us-less,therefore, for
the House to interfere under such circumstances.
do soNo public
grounds whatever had been stated why they should .
Mr. HAWES said, that however imprudent might be the
conduct of Mr. Toulmin Smith with regard to the pecuniars
claim made on him by the Board of Excise, he considered that
he was respectable man. He would not, how.
ever, go into the question on account of his case
alone ; at any rate, the documents were not fully before them.
and until they were be was not able to form an accurate judg-
ment of the circumstances. He admitted that it was
necessary for the Excise to have large powers, but tiles,
powers ought to be under due control, and such cases as the
present showed that there was not that responsibility which
ought to exist. No grounds whatever had been shown for
the course pursued upon this occasion. There was no outrage
he admitted, but the officer had evinced such zeal as to go up
,stairs into the bed-rooms, and he actually searched the maid-
sevants' boxes.—( Laughter.) He knew of several
.cases of
very
,great oppression—particularly in reference to se zures
tobacco—which worked the greatest injustice. This ought
not to be yermitted. He thought that sufficient inquiry had
not been made before procee ings were taken in the present
case, and under all the circumstances he was of opinion that
the Committee should be appointed.
Mr. BRIGHT thought it desirable to state one or two
matters in reference to hat Ras stated by the Hon. Member
far Clitheroe. The chsmith, for his claim for a
r
g
e
of extortion made against Mr.
compensationscoured
on the Excise, was per-
fectly absurd, and would e
outed by all who knew him.—
( Hear, hear.) With regard to the
apology referred to, a,
agi eed to be taken by Mr. Smith, from the officer,
officer, and afterwards oughFt back so altered
it was taken
away by' the
that Mr- Smith could not accepts t.
he (Air. Bright) had seen regardingrom private let-
ters which
perfectly convinced that elt eshiar.d Smith's
character, lie was
in view.
was to expose a gross perversion of the law with a view to its
remedy, and .'U had no a -lfish object to serve in making his
claim on the Excise for compensation, as it was well.
known that be intended to hand over the amount he
received to a charitable institution.--( Hear, hear. )
He believed that Gentleman was incapable of anything dis-
honourable, and he hoped this inquiry would, in justice to his
character be granted.—( Hear, hear, and cries of " Divide,
divide.")
Mr. NEWDEG ATE said that the thanks of the House were
due to the Hon. Member for Birmingham, for having brought
this question on by kmotion. and the thanks of the House were
also due to the Hon. Baronet the Member for Worcester for
supporting so very proper a motion. A charge had been made
against a gentleman, and he now wished to have it properly
inquired into. He considered this a case for a Committee of
Inquiry, and he could not see the justice of refusing it.
Mr. WAKLEY should be sorry for the Hose to divide
without the result being for granting an inquiry use to
most
singular case. The Learned Gentleman the Attorney-General
had adverted to the character of Mr. Smith. When parties
came before this House, to seek redress for injury, at the bands
of public functionaries, charges the most despicable were
brought against the complainants. Who before this case had
dared to say a word against the character of that gentleman?
It was said that Mr. Smith had entrapped the officer into a
fault. If that was the case, why dread an inquiry ? why refuse
it? It had been complained of that Mr. Smith did not conduct
Iris ease in a judicious manner. Why, how could it he ex-
pected that he should ? Mr. Smith, a lawyer, had himself for
'a client, and he put to his Hon. and Learned Friend
,the Attorney-General, if a lawyer without the fee could pos-
sibly conduct a case without this pleasurable excitement of the
professional usual.---(Laughter.) He was surprised at the

•
I want of feeling displayed by the Learned Gentleman towards a
professional brother.—Charges had been made against this
gentleman, and it Has but fair to give him an opportunity of
refuting them. He hoped the Government would not refuse
the inquiry, for if they troubled the House with a division he
thought his, might safely say they would be left in a minority.
By the debate of that evening the character of Mr. Smith
was brought into question, and it would be not only ungene-
rous, but unjust, to refuse him an opportunity of clearing
himself.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
appeared to him that no eve had been shown which warranted
th . inquiry asked for by the Hon. Member who proposed this
motion. He was sure that there were many Members present
who had not heard the whole case, so as to judge of the ques-
tion in all its bearings. It was said by one Hon. Member that
they should make this in-juiry in fairnejs and justice to the
character of Mr. Smith. Another Hon. Gentleman said, that
in fairness to that gentleman, he should have an opportunity of
disproving, charges brought against him. There had been
nothing brought against his character. Certain statements had
been made, which were necessary to the explanation of the
case, and surely this could not be called a charge against
character. Nothing had been stated but what was correct
The character of Mr. smith had been alluded to only by those
Hon. Members who had taken up his side of the question.
As far, therefore, as inquiry was concerned, in Mr. Smith's
case, it was perfectly unnecessary. The lion. Member then
entered, at considerable length, into the details of the transac-
tion, as stated to the House by the Right Hon. the Secretary
to the Treasury. The Hon. Member for Lambeth had stated
that, of all parties connected with the transaction, Mr. Mann,
the officer was the least to blame. He fairly confessed, there-
fore, that if the House should go into Committee, he, for one,
would not have the slightest knowledge of what would be
the course pursued I; the Committee in their inquiry.
He should therefore oppose the appointment of this Committee.
Mr. ESGOTT (who rose amidst loud cries of Divide,
divide," and '° Oa, oh,") said—The Right Hon. Baronet had
alluded to the conduct of the persons who set these proceed-
ing in motion. In his opinion, the magistrate who granted
this warrant had acted unjustly and illegally. He had granted
a warrant to search a house on no information, except an ano-
nymous letter. He would not discuss the question as to whe-
ther the letter was sufficient for the Board of Excise to act
upon, but there was certainly no ground for the interference of
a magistrate. The proceedings were not consistent with the
just and proper operation of the laws, and he should vote for
an inquiry into the conduct of the magistrate.
Mr. MILES (who rose amidst a great uproar) said that a
most unjust assertion had been thrown upon the conduct of the
magistrate. Proper reasons had been adduced for the grant-
ing of the warrant ; for on the face of the document it was
shown that the proceedings were by no means anonymous, and
'hat the magistrate was perfectly justified in his conduct. The
excise officer swore that he had reasons for suspecting, and
hat he did suspect that a private distillery was concealed on
the premises of Mr. Smith, and applied for the law to be put
in force in the case. He (Mr. Miles) did not attempt to de-
fend the night search. The police force frequently acted on
suspicion, and in this case he thought the information was
quite sufficient to justify the conduct of the magistrate.
Mr. SPOONER said, that a statement made by his
Learned Friend, the Attorney-General, showed that he was
not correctly informed on the subject he had stated, that se-
veral actions had been brought.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—No, that notice of action
had been given.
Mr. SPOONER—The service of a notice, and th" bringing
of an action, were very different things. Even if the actions
were pending now, the proper time had elapsed for bringing
them. It had been stated that his Hon. Friend the Member
for Worcester had said that no warrant ought to have been
granted against a man of the rank and character of Mr. Toul-
min Smith. He did not understand his Hon. Friend to say
-o ; he understood him to say that the station and character of
\lr. Smith required that the warrant should be executed with
great care, and that there should be a toll and complete inquiry
into the circumstances. Another assertion had been made that
leis Hon. Friend said that this was not a poor man's case, and
that there ought not to be any inquiry into it. His Hon. Friend
had stated that this was not a poor man's case, and that a man in
%Ir. Smith's station could have inquiry into it, which a poor
man could not. There had been no acting on anonymous pro-
ceedings, for the officer swore that he had reason to believe
that a distillery was in the house, and an inquiry was therefore
necessary.
The gallery was then cleared for a division.
On the re-admission of strangers to the galloy there ap-
peared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
THE CAN ADAS.
Lord G. BENTINCK in rising to move that an humble
address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she may he
pleased to direct that copies be laid before this House-1. Of
-he Governor-General Earl Cathcart's speech to the Legisla-
tive Assembly of the Canatias. 2. Of the dispatch, or dis-
patches, referred to in the Governor-General's speech as having
been addressed to her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Co-
looks, remonstrating against certain presumed changes in the
Imperial Commercial Policy. 3. Of any petition from the
Quebec Beard of Trade, addressed to her Majesty's Principal
Secretary of State for the Colonies in the course of the present
sear, on the subject of apprehended changes in the Impe-
rial Tariff affecting the produce of the Canasta&
The Noble Lord said that he had given notice that it was his
intention to propose a discussion on the question of the dangers
to their colonies in the present alarming state of their relation
with Canada; and, under any circumstances, more particularly
considering that the trade of the country with Canada compre-
hended three-eighths of the entire trade with America ; con-
sidering that the shipping interest engaged in North America
comprehended one-sixth of the foreign trade ; considering all
this, he thought that any question which concerned the pros-
ierity of Canada was well deserving the attention of the Howe.
Hut, under the present cirumstances, seeing that news had
arrived only yesterday of the rejection by the Legislative
Assembly of Canada of the Commercial policy of her Ma-
jesty's Government—(Great cheering) —considering that
the rejection of that policy and the defeat of her Majesty's
\linisters converted a majority of sixteen, which the Govern-
ment of Canada in that assembly held at the meeting of the
assembly, into a minority of seven on that question, which was
Immediately connected with that before this country—he meant
the Corn Importation and Tariff Bill—he thought it would
be most desirable that the attention of the House and
of the country should now he directed to the
situation of their Canadian colonies, before they proceeded to a
final decision on these measures.—( Cheers.) And although
le felt that at this hour of the night there would be at any rate
in question of their proceeding with the Corn Importation Bill.
he thought that no apology would be due either to the House or
to the country in thus at the earliest hour interposing this dis-
cussion, before they took any further step in that Bill. He felt
that the position of the Canadas was a matter of vital import
ante to this country, and therefore it was, he thought,
that this House should consider the subject before
they proceeded with the other Bill. It was generally known
to the Members of that House, that a dispatch had been ad-
dressed by Mr. Gladstone to the Governor-General of Canada
in the early part of March, in which he notified to Lord Cath
cart the nature of the measures which were to be introduced by
her Majesty's Ministers. It appeared, by the speech which
Lord Cathcart addressed to the Legislative Assembly, that he
had written a remonstrance to Mr. Gladstone against these
.neasures, and Lord Cathcart, in the conclusion of
'gig speech to the Assembly, thus addressed them.
( The Noble Lord then read an extract from the Governor-
General's speech, to the effect that the changes about to be
effected in the commercial policy of the country were viewed
with great jealousy by the Canadians, but it would be inadvi-
sable to express a decided opinion on these measures until they
had a full exposition of the schemes which would so materially
affect those provinces.) Then it was evident from the speech of
the Uovernor-General that he had addressed a strong remon-
strance against the commercial policy which was now about to
be proposed by her Majesty's Ministers. This appeared to him
( Lord George Bentinck) a matter of grave consideration, but,
coupled with the speech of Lord Cathcart, there were other
tndications of great dissatisfaction on the part of the consti-
tuted authorities. A meeting of the Board of Trade, in which
the mercantile and agricultural interests of the country were
represented, took place at Toronto a few days previous to the
meeting of the Legislative Assembly, with regard to the
measure about to be proposed by her Majesty's Ministers,
the Vice President of the Board, Mr. Workman, stated that
the mercantile classes of Canada were in a
most undecided state of mind at that moment
in consequence of these measures—that they were, in fact, in
'he situation of men precipitated from an eminence, and
labouring under concussion of the brain. These sentiments
were responded to by the other speakers. It was only in the
year 1843 that the Canada Corn Bill was passed. That measure
was held to be a sort of compromise with this Government.
The Noble Lord then referred to the opinion entertained in
the United States with respect to this subject, and quoted from
the New York Weeldg H,-raid, which stated that the advan-
tages which the British Colonial Secretary had pointed out as
likely to arise to the Canadas were looked upon by those en-
gaged in the trade with the mother country as of little
worth. They believed that the advantages only existed
in the mind of the Colonial Secretary. The same news-
paper stated, that notwithstanding the differential duty,
Canadian flour could be carried through New York, and
landed at Liverpool much cheaper than if sent direct from
Quebec or Montreal. Now there was 36,000 British seamen
engaged in the Canadian trade, while only 9,000 were engaged
in the trade to the United States. The policy of the Govern-
ment was calculated to destroy this great trade, and to render
the Canadian colonies utterly useless to this country. There
was little to render this debate interesting to the House.
Thus much he would say, that there was a strong
feeling in the United States on this subject. He
trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
Government would not express any indifference as
to the prepossessions which had been manifested on this sub-
ject. He was anxious that there should be no misunderstand-
ing on the point, because he believed that there would be
measures introduced which would render the Government
proposition inoperative. He was more anxious upon this
point, as he believed in the present experiment there was
nothing to justify its adoption. It would appear, from com-
munications which he had received, that there had been one
hundred thousand pounds received on the duties upon timber,
and he was not disinclined to believe that such was the fact.
He held in his hand a letter ft om a Liverpool merchant, who
stated that Canada required a protection, as compared with
New York, of not less than 4s. or 55. per quarter upon wheat.
Anybody who knew anything of commercial interest—any-
body "
body who knew anything of shipping interest, must e well
aware that those ships that were to be laid up during the
whole course of the winter, must trade at a great disadvantage,
Mwa
ji tehs t
yt,hsoAset
nt
satterts:adwehdend during the
int
rwohdonleeetoif
tthhi
e
year.
as comHpaerred
friends measure,
of hfeiledeo
tradeut to tihne Parliamentthe
United
Statesan d t o
wouldthe country,
encouragedt hfa t th e
by the removal of the restrictions on the importationtrade
betwocoerenn.
Dear as would be the purchase of an unrestricted
tthheisicnossunntfroynarncdanthaediaUnneintlendnieSst,aittesmoifghAtnaebernic, matte
t e
of c
go
rs of
at
r e
consideration, whether it would beto the advantage of this country
to adopt the scheme proposed by her Majesty's Government.
He found in the Times newspaper, in a leading article, opi-
nions expressed to the same effect. There was, therefore, no
hope of a reduction of the tariff in that country on the import-
ation of British goods. It appeared from the returns of the
exports of printed goods and calicoes to our Canadian colonies,
that a considerable increase had taken place during the two
lopafosrtt years.theedn
i goodst t The value of the raw cotton, and other goods im-
ehxispcnortuendtriyr,mextbceisetnloeduntbryy
ttnhrteheamtilliTonhsistheeirveaulmue.
stance arose from the general feeling that existed in the United
States to preserve the independence of their h ome manufactures.
The export of cotton now exceerledthiant of formerlB4oirt years. That
of 1827 was 278,090 tons, while
amounted
1,241,900 tons ; and in 1845 to 1,409.600 tons.
rhey h
at to
the opinion also of all the leading men of America in favour of
►troffteercstnin also
o nt industry,enincidrd
w.,
l Washingtonb i.
It maintainedenuli i n 0 that
rpelo s i tbi ona.
Jefferson
wise measure to,risk their connexion with their Csanadiale
colo-
nies. Their export trade with the United States had, within
the last few years, been almost doubled, while that with their
coloeies had gradually dimished. Feeling strongly that the
measures now before Parliament would alienate the affections
of their colonial brethren, he thought it right to bring the
question before Parliament. He would, therefore, move that
an humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that
she may be pleased to direct that copies be laid becore the
House Of the Governor-General Cathcart's speech to the Legis-
lative Assembly of the Canadas—of the dispatches referred
to in the Governor-General's speech, as having been addressed to
her Majesty's secretary of State for the Colonies, remonstrating

125
, ..... 134
-- 9