The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-26 00:00:00

GROUP X.

- -
The Committee met to-day at welve o'clock, In Room No. I (House
of Commons), present Mr. Deedes (chairman), Mr Avkwright, Mr.
Farnham, Mr. Stanley, and Mr. Vivian. They immediately called
on the
CALEDONIAN (DIINDYIT.AN BRANCH)•
A BROAD HINT TO LEADERS.

It was then intimated that the promoters did not mean to offer
any further evidence, considering that their case was estalolLshed as
against the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands.
Mr. Foal:slit requested that the Committee would grant a few
minutes indulgence to Mr. Cockburn, ;Q.C., who, as leading counsel
in this case, was prepared to sum up the evidence of the promoters,
bat was unfortunately at that moment engaged in another room.
The Committee, having waited for a considerable time, exprosse6
mpatience at the delay, and called on Mr. Forsyth to proceed with
the case.

Mr. Forsyth was most reluctant to do so, in the absence of
Mr Cockburn, who had prepared himself for the task. The Learned
Gentleman then, as it appeared, went out to hasten Mr. Cockburn.
In his absence,

The CHAIRMAN, addressing the agent, said that the C*rnmfttee
did not think it was their dntyartt the Public or to the pgly.
such indulgence as was here required to a counsel who toaia no
-
attention whatever to the ease from the commencement. They
would not wait any longer for Mr. Cockburn, nor could they see
any reason why Mr. Forsyth, who hail diligently attended to the case
from beginning to end, and had heard all the evidence, should not
proceed with his statement. He was perfectly competent to do so,
wasting time in extending
and- there was no reason for sv
.indulgence to
a gentleman who had sot heard a Word of the eviden
on the pe-
At length, with great hesitation on his own parent
remptory demand of the Committee,, who would wait so longer, it
ee,
being one o'clock,
Mr. rourrn proceeded to make the statement for the promoters
as made out in the evidence.
After the conclusion of Mr. Forsyth's elaborate and able statement,
Mr. Aynesws, Q.C., replied on behalf of the Glasgow', sate lend
Monklands, dwelling most emphatically upon the great advantaged
which that line would confer upon the whole community of Glasgow,
by choosing the Mile-end district as the site of its terminal station,
and upon the University, by giving a new set of buildings in a far
superior situation.
The room was then cleared for a division, and, on the readmission
of strangers,
The CILAIRMAN announced the decision- of the Committee to be,
that the preamble of the Glasgow, Airdrie, and Monklands Junction
Bill was proved ; and that the preamble of the Caledonian (Dundy-
van Branch) was not proved.
The consideration of the clauses in the Bill, of which the preamble
was passed, was postponed.

CALEDONIAN (GLASGOW, GARNHIRX,
AND COA.TBRIDGE RAILWAY JUNCTION.
The preliminary evidence on this Bill (according to Mr. Dun-
combe's resolutions) was then taken, and the Committee adjourned
till twelve o'clock on Thursday, the Chairman expressing a hope that
the parties would be in readiness, so that the whole might be con-
cluded on Friday before the holidays.

GROUP XIII.

CALEXIONIAN (L.ANGBOLDI BRANCH).

(Continued from uur Afternoon Editioi.)

Mr. RICKARDS said it was against all the rules of evidence to recal
witnesses after a case was dosed. If they did so, there would be no
end to the inquiry.

The Cnita;tA; said that it was not a matter of ranch moment, as
It Wag but the opinion of the present witness against the positive de-
claration of the witnesses who had been called on the ether side. He
did not consider there was any: necessity for calling back the wit-
nesses referred to.

—, -
Mr. RICKAIDS—But that opinten is the result of scientific investi-
gation, which is more important than the evidence of a preprietor or
agent, who is interested in giving a favourable representation to the
Case.
Witness's examination continued—Me had been exclusively en-
gaged In making immense surveys. He had been employed by the
Duke of Buecleuch, the Marquis of Lothian, and Lord Judburgh. He
had himself been engaged in a coal-field near Dalkeith as large as the
Canobte field, and all they had been able to raise from it annually
was 30,000 tons. The witness was then examined with the object
of showing that the lime and other mineral traffic had been much
exaggerated. He did Rot think the Canobie liras would go beyond
Sextet.
cross-examined by Mr. TALBOT—He thought the Berwick coal
weela go up as far as Hawks. At preseat there was nut much
Berwick coal consumed In Hawick. He went into the
Ilawick district in November last at the instance
of the Caledonian Company. He spent two days and a night at
Hayek. inclnlxing into the coal consumption. He was told by the
alsasufttums tU4 that inquiatly got Coal from BerlTlClif bilt 110

could not say how much of it was consumed. He could not name
the manufacturers who gave him the information, as he had not his
memoranda here. He had been one afternoon at Canobie, and
examined the strata. _ _ .

Mr. Nicholas Wood, mining engineer, of Newcastle, said he had
visited many of the coal-fields in the south of Scotland. Ye agreed
generally with the evidence of Mr. Williamson, that Hawick would
be partly supplied from Berwick and partly from Canobie. He had
looked over Mr. Williamson's tables, and concurred in them.
Cross-examined:by Mr. LIDDELL—He did not think aB addition of.
50 per cent. a fair increase to be made in the tables. Chevlngton
was the nearest coal-geld in Northumberland to Berwick. The
best coal there was 6s. a ton, and the small coal was about 2s. The
k
best Canobie coal, at the pit's mouth, was ss. 4d., but he did not think
the small coal was so cheap in proportion to the Chevingthot nw, as
s
there was a greater demand for it. If the small coal at
as cheap in proportion as the best coal, then.
at Hawick, in
former would be used for manufacturing laurtosesan
eighteen miles nearer to Hawick than Chevington,asthe coal of the
CanobieCane was
preference to the latter. He did not think tptedC
go round by way
a!
Carlisle
to
be
exP°aceount of the stopping
coal being so dear
coil year at Carlisle was on oTbhi
ee cor
ea la s
ho u lodf
known from any pit in one year was
loads. The largest outfit he had
of the Bienkensop colliery. That also detained the ships from getting
50,000 tons. He thought 50,000
fuanthtietY.Carlisle
tons from twelve coal-pits in the
Mr. Steele, Mayor of Carlisle, an prop arlesmtor of Lothians, as stated by the previous widtness,
Jou , deposed that he had paid great attention to the question
of communication with Scotland. He had been examined
last year on
the Caledonian Railway. He was decidedly
of opinion that only two through lines into Scotland
could be supported—one on the east side, and another
towards the west. He then supported the Caledonian line, in prefer-
ence to the Nithsdale line, as affording the best, general accom-
modation. If this line were passed, there would with the Nlthsdale
line be two communications to both Edinburgh and Glasgow, which
he did not think the traffic would support. The whole capital thus
required would be to be raised by the bills, 5,160,0101. ; and sup-
posing one-third raised by loan, which was usually done, that would
make a total of 6,880,0001. From information derived from engineers,
he calculated the working schemes
per mile per annum at 6001.,
which on 367 miles of railway would be 220,0001. Now, that with
an addition of 4 per cent. on the capital would make 233,2001. more,
or a total of nearly half a million,
that would have to be raised. He
did not think mach stone would be brought by the railway, as it
ekuld be got inlarge quantities not far from Carlisle. Besides, brick
for building purposes was in the generality of instances preferred.
The quantity of coal consumed in Carlisle and its neighbourhood was
about 60,000 tons. It was got from various poinis in Cumberland.
and brought by the Newcastle and Maryport Railways. The Cano-
bie coal was such that he would not use for household purposes.
There was an extensive quantity exported. The best on board was
Bs., the second 55., and the small 4s. The small coal was very well
suited for manufacturing purposes. The Canobie coal would have to
go on to the Newcastle line and go down to the canal by it for
shipping. He thought it could not be shipped for less than 7s. 7d.
a ton. It Would also have to compete with the Maryport line

Cross-examined—He knew that a great number of the inhabitants
of Carlisle had petitioned for the present line, but he could not state
what their motives were. Perhaps they might expect supplies of
coal by its He had given his individual opinion that this coal would
not be much used in Carlisle. He could not speak as to the wants of
the liawick district.
Mr. William Pare, traffic-taker, examined—He took the traffic of
the liawick and Carlisle turnpike road in 1844, and again in last
autumn. He placed men at different points last year—he took the
first fourteen days in October. He had prepared a table founded on
those observations. lie calculated the probable amount of traffic for
post-horses, gigs, and other private conveyances, to be 1,4091. 13s. 4d.;
this was from Hawick to Carlisle. The North British estimated it
at 3,6651. They had added 150 per cent. on that, instead of 100 per
cent., as last year. He had assumed of those that were travelling,
except by post-horses, that the half would take the railway. The
general merchandise and agricultural produce he noted in a similar
way ; the amount was 1,4811. 17s. 9d. He had excluded in his cal-
culation the fish and meat supposed, on the other side, to go from
Dalkeith and Dunbar, and also the Hawick and Newcastle traffic,
respecting which he could not make any comparison. The item he•
named was to set against the 6,5191. in the table on the other side.
Instead of 5,7621. for stone, wood, &c., taken credit for on the other
side, he set down 3911. For small parcels he thought 3.0001. very
much exaggerated. In the tables of the Caledonian line this year he
estimated the through traffic from Carlisle to Edinburgh to be
20,9131., and to that extent the present line would be a competing
line.
Cross-examined—ln some cases he had known 15 per cent of in-
crease in traffic, and more. The most common rate was 100 per mu-.
It was not common to double the merchandise. He had never known
it doubled, but coal he had. His object in 1844, was to take the
through traffic from Carlisle to Edinburgh from those tables. He did
not assume any traffic between Carlisle, Langton, or Canobie, as the
line was not proposed to touch them, and he had nothing to do
with the through traffic. Not any of the local traffic was
noted. In the laSt observation, he made the goods between
Langholm and Hawick backwards and forwards to be 1,837 tone per
annum. That was according to the observation of fourteen days.
He did not speak us to the coal at all. He was not aware that large
quantities of grain went from Roxburgh towards Dumfries.
Mr. Collister, resident engineer of the Caledonian Railway, exa-
mined—He had made two surveys of the Hawick and Carlisle line.
Me made the last observation about
.a. month ago. He was ob-
greeted by the Duke of Buccleuch's gamekeepers but as far as he
could do so he ran levels. The works were very heavy, the valleys
being steep, and the hills very abrupt. The witness here put in a
section of the works which he had drawn out in which some specifi-
cations were;made which did not appear in the. plans and
sections of the promoters. The sections; of the latter dii not
represent the whole of the works. Ths was in consequence of the
shelving manner in which the line crossed the side of a steep hill.
For thirty miles the line was taken through grawacke or whinstone
rock, the cutting of which would be very expensive. The Teviot was
crossed thirteen times in nine miles. The promoters of the Hawick
gave the estimate of the ordinary earthwork at 111,4481.; he set it
down at 151,5071. For whinstone—

The CHAIRMAN suggested that the witness had better put in the
details in the form of a table.

Mr. RICKARDS said the table should be supplied to the Committee,
as also to Counsel on the other side, and in the meantime a few
minutes would suffice to ask all the questions necessary on the items.
ifitness's examination continued—The whinstone and sandstone
cuttings he set down at 519,374 cubic yards, at a cost of 78,7331.,
which they made 497,000 cubic yards at 70,3471. The tunnel he
estimated at 15,0001., they made it 9,9001. The witness then went
over the viaducts proposed to be made. all which were undervalued.
For all the items he had referred to, he estimated 483,6951., instead
of theirs, which was 328,3201. The permanent way, ballasting, Br.c.,
he set down at 225,8464 instead of 189,2911., their estimate. The
value of the land and the two small branches Ise took at their
estimate. The result of the whole was, that his total was .
820,601., instead of theirs, which was 660,0001. Ile had
taken the works at the rates which the Caledonian were let
at. One of the main thoroughfares in Carlisle was crossed on the
level according to the deposited plans. They could not deviate so as
to cross by a bridge, because they could -not according to the de-
posited plans, take sufficient width for the approaches. If Borough-
street was lowered as proposed, it would be below the natural drain-
age of the town. According to the agreement that had been entered
into, the rails would have to be raised eight feet more than they were
stated in the deposited plans. The Caledonian Langhohn branch
was thirteen miles long. The severest gradient was one in 150. and
the sharpest curve a radius of half a mile. The engineering pecu-
liarities were more favourable than those of the opposing line through
the same tract. The estimate was 180,0001., this included works and
land for a double line, but only a single line of rails was proposed to
be laid down. The walls were generally favourable. There would
be no difficulty in making a communication (ruin the line to the
Candri coal fields..

The Cen►mittee then adjourned till Thursday at twelve o'clock,
when the cross-examination will be taken.

GROUP XIV.
KENT ATMOSPHERIC SCHEME.
%Cc u I n...ted from our Afternoon Edition.)

On cross-examination, Mr. Sherrad stated that his estimates did
not include the atmospheric pipe nor either the payment for the
pa•ent right or the stationary engines. In laying out the line he
had no specific mode of working in view, because his instruction from
Mr. Cubitt, the consulting engineer of the line, was to procure a line
with a ruling gradient of lin 80. The witness was cross-examined
at considerable length with a view of showing that his comparison
between the two lines, both as regarded gradients, tunnels, with
stations and lengths, had been made upon an erroneous principle.
The Committee then adjourned till Thursday, at twelYe o'clock.