The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-01 00:00:00

THE CHANNEL ISLANDS.

Dr. BOWRING inquired whetheiiheGovernment
would consent to extend the inquiries of the Channel Is-
lands Commission into the general state of the laws and
their administration in those islands ?

Sir GEORGE GREY said that he did not see why
the criminal jurisdiction as well as the civil should not
be extended to the Channel Islands. The subject was
at present under the considerjttion of the Lord Chan-
cellor.

Mr. CHARLES VILLIERS moved that the petition
of Robert Maule Gillies and George Horne, respecting
the duties on rye, peas, and beans, be printed.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

On the motion of Sir GEORGE GREY, it was agreed
th,it the House at its rising adjourn till Monday,

SPIRI

Mr. MACKINNON said he had a motion for the
equalisation of duties on colonial and British spirits. He
wished to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer
when would he the most convenient time for him to do so?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
most convenient time would be at the time that the
House went into Committee on the Customs' Duties Bill,
and when they proposed the amount of duty to be
imposed on rum.
Mr. MACKINNON—When will that be?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—AII
that he could say was, that it would be as soon as pos-
sible, but he could nat say exactly when.
FLOGGING IN THE ARMY.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that as notice of motion
had been given by an Hon. Member respecting flogging
in the army, he wished to inform the House that he had
caused the subject to be brought under the consideration
of the Commander-in-Chief, the Duke of Wellington.
The question was, therefore, at present under the con-
sideration of the Commander-in-Chief, not with the object
of abrogating the power of inflicting corporal punish-
ment, but with the view of regulating it. He thought,
therefore, it would not be advisable, till the result was
communicated to the House, that the subject of flogging
in the army should be discussed.
Dr. BUWRING was willing that his motior
should be postponed, so as not
,to interfere with the
proceedings of the Government regarding the question.
He would, however, wish the Noble Lord to understand
that if the measure the Government submitted was not
satisfactory, he (Dr. Bowring) should be at liberty to
bring forward the whole question. Ile was bound, before
tl,e en(' of the session, tobring the subject before the House
Mr. B. OSBORNE said the intimation of the Noble
Lord was so far satisfactory that he should not; under
the circumstances, press the motion of which he had
given notice.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to know if flogging in tht
navy was also to be brought under consideration, and
whether anything was to be done to regulate court-
martials in that 'department of the service ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the subject of the army.
as he had stated, was under the consideration of the
commander-in-chief; but he (Lord John Russell) hat
not had any communication with the Admiraly on the.
subject of the navy. He would, in regard to the Hon.
Member for Bolton, take care that, in case the Govern-
ment measure was not considered satisfactory, he should
have an opportunity of bringing forward his motion.
After a few words from Mr. HUME,

Mr. OSBORNE said he pledgFd himself not to press
his amendment, if the Commander-in-Chief recom-
mended that the number of lashes should be limited.
The Noble Lord had not given any express pledge that
the Commander in-Chief would recommend a di-
minution in the number of lashes. Now, unit-se
the Commander-in-Chief did limit the number of lashes.
he should press his amendment.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having
moved the order of the day for the House resolving itself
int a C(.mmittee of Ways and Means,

ACCIDENTS ON EASTERN COUNTIES RAIL-
WAY.

Mr. HUDSON said he was anxious to take that op-
portunity of making a few observations, in reference
to the statements made on the previous day by two
Honourable Members, with respect to the Eastern
Counties Railway. He wished to make this state-
ment, for the purpose of allaying any public
excitement that might have been occasioned by the re-
marks of those two Hon. Members. He had made in-
quiries from the secretaries of the company, and he
thought that the result of those inquiries would
satisfy the House that, as far as the ma-
nagement of that undertaking was concerned,
the public had less cause to fear accidents when travel-
ling on that railway than on any other. Since the
opening of this line, which was in 1840, 11,000,000
people had travelled upon it, and, with the exception of
the late accidento,retdneerineoehtande
obpeeenni;lgo,ntlyhrooonoef
wdheaotmh
during the
Foegrea wholeibnrj time.k ebroken,
and Thereone haa dd
elbeendislocated
toondl only
shoulder. twenty-
one
had ptiaiessiren
The remainder of the accidents were of the most trifling
description. He felt confident that this state-
ment would be most satisfactory to the House
and the public. He would not as yet say anything in
reference to the recent accident on the line, but the state-
ment which he had made he thought was but just to the
proprietors and the public. There was as much if not
greater security on the Eastern Counties than on any
other line in the kingdom.
Mr. HORSMAN wished to know what was the in-
tention of the Government in reference to the Com-
mission that had been appointed at the com-
mencement of the session in reference to rail-
roads. He wished to know from his Right Honourable
Friend the Secretary of State for the Home
Department, whether the Government intended to do
anything in order to allay the public excitement and
confusion which prevailed on this subject ?
Sir GEORGE GREY said he was not prepared to
make any statement in reference to this question.
He hoped to be able to bring
_forward some, measure,
during the present session, for the purpose of removing
some of the inconveniences complained of in the report
of the Committee lately presented to the House, which
he hoped would come into operation before the next
session.
THE SUGAR DUTIES.
On the motion for going into Committee of Ways and
Means.
Mr. SPOONER said that he wished to state briefly
to the House his reasons for giving his vote in support
of the proposition of Government. He thought it the
duty of a christian nation to lay aside every consideration
of profit and commercial benefit or advantage, if they
were to be purchased by anything tending to increase
the slate trade. He did not think that the proposition
of her Majesty's Government would give the least
stimulus to the slave trade ; if he thought it would
Ile said he would not give his support to the proposition.
After the very able speech of the Noble Lord the
lieniber fin. Liverpool (Lord Sandon), he would net
have tieeit id enter on the subject if the
Noble Lord OP Member for Stamford had not
risen after and made Eth attempt to invalidate his argu-
ments. That Noble Lord had characterised the speech
of the Member for Liverpool as one that could not be
comprehencled.=CHear, hear.) He (Mr. Spooner
was of opinion that that speech was the most
concise and the most coniplete answer to all the argu-
ments on the opposite side. lie said the demand for sugar
had grown till it was more than the flintily. if, however,
they excluded sieve-grown sugar from the market that
only opened another market for it elsewhere im-
tve.liately ; a greater consumption of free--labour
sugar at home was the consequence, and that
created a vacuum on the Continent, which was again
supplied with slave-grown sugar. He begged they
would observe what the effect of this had been on
trade and the manufactures of this country. The trade
between this country and the Brazils was an important
trade ; but since the treaty had ceased the Bra-
zilian Government had raised their duties. Toe
merchants there had sent over their agents tc
the Continent, and there they were buying
German goods in the German markets with English
capital, and carrying into their markets slave-labour sugar.
It was a fact which could not be disputed, that their
efforts to do away with slavery had failed,
and it was therefore completely uselesss
.tie
persevere in a system which pressed so
hahSaavisyo
upon the comforts of the people. Their
.p
that their interests were wholly neglected. 11.
he
gssooivuerilcaesthaoef
whole,
offence to the Brazilianee, who felt_e
was an advocate for protection, whichne
believed was the foundation of the prosperity t.
_tpee
country ; but if it were to be maintained, it shhould b
endless injustice to
fully
debated in the
new argument
s otherwiee it would
Howe, that he did not- hope to give anY•
it would not be
parties.e
teSti°ll had already been so
for its consideration, but he felt
a. silent vote upon so
consistent with his duty to give - 6

important a question.
Sir IL H. INGLIS said that amongst the many de-
feats which, in the course of his experience in that
House, he had had to sustain, there was none which he
felt more deeply than that which he sustained by the
degiaia of the uglau T+105114 last if bar way

( opposition of his he could hope to remove that decision,
he trusted that he should not be found wanting in what
be considered to be his duty ; but that decision of the
House having been pronounced by a majority so large as
to render any further attempt on his part, not merely
hopeless, but probably irritative, and leading to a great
hindrance to the discharge of public business, he did
not desire to revive the discussion of Monday and Tues-
day last, and rose rather for the purpose of stating that,
than of answering what ho thought might be easily
answered— the opposition of his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Birmingham—the latest convert to the doctrine
of free- trade, and latest abandoner of the principles of
protection. He would only state, that deeply as he re-
gretted the injury to be sustained by their fellow-
countrymen in the East as well as the West Indies, by
the change which had been decided upon in the course
of the last few days—deeply as he regretted the ma-
jority by which that change bad been produced, by such
a combination of individuals and of parties as perhaps
the wildest imagination of any man in that House,
he was quite sure could neverexpect upon such a subject—
still more deeply fi ding the change in our commercial
policy, the greatest change which had been made in the
course of three centuries—he meant this change in the
slave trade—yet at the same time he saw the contest
was hopeless, and he would not weary the House with
arguments in reply, which had been used by far better
and able r men than himself. He would therefore take
upon himself the responsibility,. on a subject of so much
importance to the interests of the West Indian colonies,
aud the still higher interests of humanity and the world,
of withdrawing all further opposition.
Several Bills were brought down from the Lords, after
which,
The House went into Committee.
Mr. D. BARCLAY opposed the resolution, and
called upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer to distin-
guish between sugar the produce of free labour in the
colenies, and sugar the produce of the unfortunate ne-
groes in the islands of Cuba and in the Brazils. He
said this measure would destroy the little attachment
betty: en the colonies and the mother country ; for what
attachment, he asked, would Jamaica have to this coun-
try when the duties were eqealised, and Cuba and the
Brazils had the same •advantages ? He said they were
committing an act tantamount to dissolving the connexion
between the colonies and this country. The only
chance for the colonies would be to give
their produce every opportunity of a market.
If the inhabitants of Jamaica were their fellow subjects
they .sere entitled to an equal treatment with the people
of the country, and he did hope that there would be no
obstruction thrown into the way of the consumption of
free labour sugar. The simple alteration which he pro.
propsed was, that instead of the duty varying for the
first three years, that the foreign sugar should remain
stedfast for that time at 215., and after that in the fourth
year it should be reduced to 3s. 61 That alteration
was so simple in its character that it could hardly be
objected to, and he sincerely hoped that the House
would not object to it.
The CHAIRMAN said that the resolution of the
Hon. Member could not be put at present.
Mr. MOFFATT then moved the repeal of the
differential duties on white clayed sugar and Muscovado,
or other sugar not being equal to white clayed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed
the motion, because it would be a great annoyance to
the public if adopted. If the House was deal-
ing with colonial sugar only the Honour able
Member would have a better ground for proposing
his motion, but as they were now dealing with foreign as
well, he believed that the resolution proposed would in-
flict great injury on those engaged in the sugar trade.
He then read extracts from some documents, for the
purpose of showing that the charges of oppression on the
part of the custom-house officers, in the collection of the
duties on sugar, were not well grounded. Believing
that the reasons which existed at the time when those
duties were first proposed existed now in even greater
strength, he must say that he should oppose his Hon.
Friend's motion ; at the same time he might state that
he did not consider the present as a final measure.
Mr. MOFFATT said, that after the explanations of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, he would not persist in his
motion at present.—(Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. P. M. STEWART.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the present measure was a final one, but he did re-
serve to himself the power of making a distinction on the
white clayed sugar.
The item of 18s. Bd. on white clayed sugar was then
agreed to.
Mr. JAMES moved that the item of brown sugar, be-
• ing Muscovado, or clayed, or any other sugar not being
equal in quality, white clayed, not being refined, be ad-
mitted for three years at a duty not exceeding les. the cwt.
He was against any duty being placed upon colonial
.agar. He was'not actuated in making this motion by
any hostility to the Government, but he considered that
the House would confer a great boon upon the people if
they agreed to his motion. He would not press it, how-
over, if it was not the wish of the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the reduction would interfere too much with the revenue.
Mr. BERKELEY moved that the differential duty
should exist for three years at a fixed sum of 21s. per
~wt., and in the fourth year there should be a further
reduction to a fixed duty of les., as proposed by her
Majes'y's Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he could not agree to the proposition, which involved
most evil consequences. He considered that the plan as
proposed by her Majesty's Goverment had met very
general approbation, and he, therefore, considered
he would not be justified in' assenting to
the proposition of the Honourable Gentleman.
lie believed that under all the circumstances the gradual
reduction of duty on the sugar was the mode best calcu-
lated to benefit the consumers and the trade of the country.
With regard to the introduction of molasses, into distille-
ries, he had promised to give the subject his fullest and
seirest consideration. He thought that there would be
some difficulty in introducing it this session, but at some
future period it would probably occupy the attention of
the House.
Mr. D. BARCLAY made some observations in reply
which did not reach the gallery. The purport was (as
we understood) to withdraw the amendment.
Mr. BARKLY said, that in consequence of the
variety of rates of duty in the Bill, which would in many
mercantile houses cause a considerable less of time,
the West India planters would be certainly deprived of
the benefit of it. The slave owner would be able to
throw in a quantity of sugar at such a rate as to render
the West India planter unable to compete with them.
He should certainly have felt it his duty to support the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Sunderland if he
had pressed it, but as it was withdrawn, he could only
state that he heartily concurred in its principle.
Sir JOHN RAE REID would put it to the House
whether a great interest like the present one was to be
sacrificed in this way. He objected to the hurried mode
of its discussion, a6d he thought that its effect would
be both cruel and unjust upon those engaged in the
sugar trade.
Mr. PATRICK STEWART entirely agreed with
his two lion. Friends who had preceded him, that the
next day's packet would take out very gloomy tidings to
the West Indies. He did not wish, however, that the
gloomy forebodings of his Hon. Friends should be
carried across the Atlantic. Much as the sugar pro-
ducers dreaded the competition which was to be opened
upon them, they would not so much care for it if the
Government would only be prompt in the execution of
those measures of which they held out hopes. If they
would let them have a free and uninterrupted supply of
free labour from every British possession on the globe,
he should say to his friends on the other side of the
Atlantic, that hard and severe as the measure was, they
would survive the crisis if they moved the Government
to fulfil its promise to them.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK said that he hardly knew
whether the motion of the Hon. Gentleman had been
withdrawn br not If it had been pressed to a division he
should have supported it by his vote, He agreed with
the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, that look-
ing at the colonies, there was no such gloomy prospects
as had been anticipated. He believed that in ten years
from that time the colonies would be again flourishing.
The question was, what was to be done with those who
had property there, and who would be most materially
injured by the passing of the present measure. He
thought it was right, both in public and private policy,
to look difficulties in the face, and he trusted that the
Hon. Baronet, the Member for Dover (Sir John Rae
Reid) would prevail on the wealthy merchants of Lon-
don to look at the question in this light. He hoped
that these merchants would not have to send out, by
to-morrow's packet, the dolorous news that it was their
determination to put an end to protection as regarded
the colonies.
Mr. GOULBURN, who was at first inaudible in the
gallery, said he was not prepared to have voted for his
Hon. Friend's motion if he had pressed it to a division.
Ho thought that the Government ought to be pressed to
give those measures of compensation to which the
West Indies had a claim ; that if the Government
reincisd the duties to perfect equality, they should assist
theta by a sufficient supply of labour, and also give some
compeosation for the tardiness of that assistance. It
was in the hope ;_hat Government would do something
of this kind that he would support the measure of the
Government.
Dr. Bowa[Nct, confessed that the colonial claims
deserved calm and me-swim: le consideration. The pro-
prietors_
had admitted to whose On his side the House the
principles of free trade, anti be thought that taking up
that position they were likely
psta' cl
ht be given and
blish fair aims.
There were no doubt facilities thas`
Di'heeeerving always
opportunities that might be opened ilea .t- d The ques-
the integrity of the principles of free
dabs e.•
lion had been unnecessarily
es.
this advantage the: the
tinctions. He himself was an"ximoPulsiciahtraetherum s";
u ion
had been settled ; but there
colonies had by this meastirew,atsiat
itahtehemcahrekaeptess
tofmtahre.
world were opened to them, to buy
ket, and sell in the dearest.
Mr. BERNAL said he did not understand what fell
from the Bight Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer
as to the change he proposed on colonial spirits.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
what he had said in reference to the West India proprie-
tors was, that all protection had been removed from
them, and all protection had been removed against
them. He only was anxious to know what they wished,
and what obstacles they felt. He said the principle upon
which the Government had acted, was, that the fiscal
burdens on British and colonial spirits should be the
same when they came in for consumption. Possibly the
duty continued might be too much, but be did not mean
to enter on that question just now. There was no duty
on the spirits of the West Indies, except for fiscal pur-
poses ; and that British spirits and Jamaica rum might
come in on precisely the same terms, he had reduced
the duty to Is. instead of Is. 6d. A deputation of dis-
tillers had waited on him, who thought he had gone too
far. He said he would hear the West Indians as to
whether the ls. was too much, and the distillers as to
whether it was not enough, aud he would adjudicate
Wino 404 i wit 4 v&w to doiDsjusdoe. 11E1o/rid till*

duty imposed was not for protection to any interests in
this country, but only for the purposes of revenue.
Mr. BERNAL wished to know how the Right. Hon.
Gentleman could justify that arrangement, la which in
Scotland rum at 9s. 4d. was le: in to meet a spirit at
3s. ad. Was not that protection ? Perhaps the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer did not know that there was a
spirit manufactured in Scotland, called the " Silent
Spirit."—(Laughter.) It was alcohol having the appear-
ance and colour of rum, and was vended there duty free
to the prejudice of rum. He asked why rum should not
enter into Scotland on the seine footing as it did with
English spirits in England ; why there was not a uniform
rate for Scotland also ?
Mr. HUME was pleased that this matter had been so
amicably settled, but he though the Government might
have made the concession asked by the West India into •
rest, without injuring the great measure now before the
Committee.—(Hear, hear.) He must, join with other
Hon. Gentlemen who had already addressed the Com-
mittee, in h e ping that Government would act liberally with
the Colonies. No one could deny the assertion that they
had not been treated fairly ; and he, for one, thought,
while they were adopting free trade at home, they ought
to apply it to the colonies without any reservations
whatever. Place the colonies in a situation of freedom
in that respect, and he was satisfied that, so far from
suffering from the change about to be made, they weuld
be able to compete with any foreign producers. Now,
this freedom could not be given unless a change took
place in the system pursued at the Colonial-office.
Hitherto that department had acted upon nothing but a
receding policy, issuing orders one day, and counter-
manding them another, and acting all the year round
upon a vice versa system, if he might be allowed to use
the term,—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) An evil genius
appeared to have invaded all the ranks of the Colonial-
office, but he hoped the Noble Lord would give them an
assurance that, in this respect a change should be made,
and the colonies permitted to have the management of
their own fiscal affairs themselves.—(Hear. hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had heard with gr‘ at plea-
sure the statement of his Right Hon. Friend opposite.
But with regard to the observations of his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Bernal) he thought it was better bath for the con-
sumer and the producer that the present distinction
between rum scotch spirits should continue for a short
while longer. These changes could not be suddenly
made with advantage to either party. It required time
to effect them, and if that time were allowed to Govern-
trent they would do their utmost to carry out the details
of this change in a manner that should meet the views and
wishes of most parties.—(Hear, hear.) They did not
propose any variation of duties for the sake of protection,
but with a view of ultimately leading to a final and
satisfactory adjustment of the sugar duty question.
With regard to the reduction proposed to be made in
the excise duty of 6d., he relied fully upon the justice
and integrity of his Right Hon. Frio d the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, who he had no doubt would settle the
question impartially, and in a manner calculated to pro
tect the interest of all parties. It must be remembered,
however, that the West Indies had been exposed to great
changes in their social as well as commercial condition.
They were now thrown open to the changes of free
trade, if indeed there were any ; and he felt it to be the
duty of Government to attend to all these little questions
and details which it was supposed would close
much benefit for the colonic s.—(Cheers) lie was very
sorry to hear two Honourable Gentlemen opposite speak
with so much despondency of the prospect of the West
Indies. He owned, although, he had carefully con-
sidered all that was said on former occasions upon this
part of the subject, he did not believe the prospects of
the West Indies were so distressing and deplorable as
some Hon. Gentlemen would paint them.—(Hear, hear.)
He did really believe that, avith the advantegea of some
trifling charge, and privileges, they would be well able to
compete in the sugar market with sugar the produce of
slave labour.—(Hear, hear.) The difficulties in their
way were only those of the price and simply of labour,
and he could assure the House that Government in-
tended taking these steps which should reduce the diffi-
culties year by year till they had entirely vanished.—
(Hear, hear.) It would be their study and desire to
establish a free intercourse between the African and
West Indian colonies. Men could be brought from Africa
to the West Indies, and there thoroughly taught the
arts of civilisation before they would return to their
native soil. This system, managed with skill, care, and
attention, he need not point out to the Howe, would
lead to the civilisation of the barbarous population of
our African colonies.—(Hear, hear.) lie had stated
these opinions on former evenings, and in repeating
them then his only object was to add that he hoped
shortly to see them carried into practical effect. But
still he must agree with a Noble Lord, a late Governor
of Jamaica, that it was impossible that any
system of emigration could improve the cultivation
of the West Indies, unless there were some slight sacri-
fice made on the part of the West Indians them-elves ;
but upon this point he did not want to raise any contro-
versy. Still, however, it must he borne in mind that the
efforts of that Noble Lord were in a great measure ren-
dered useless by the disputes which arose between the
West Indians and the emigrants, relative to certain
rights and privileges claimed by tie one, and refused by
the other ; and while he did not pretend to say who was
in the right or who was in the wrong, the advisers of the
emigrants, or the counsel of the West Indians, he could
not conceal froth himself the fact that these disputes had
had the effect of retarding the progress of the colonies
themselves.—(Hear, hear.) Happily, however, these
disputes and disagreements had generally sub-
sided, and at all events he was glad that
this obstacle would not lie in the future course
of the Government. Upon these grounds, therefore,
he did not look with any kind of despondency
to the result of this measure. It was an experiment
which had already been tried with great success. They
had heard this in the course of debate from the Right
lion. Baronet, the Member for Tatnworth, himself, and
he felt confident the anticipations of those who were the
most desponding would never be realised.—(llear,
hear.) He could not quite agree with his Hon. Friend,
the Member for Montrose, that there was hardly a
colony which was not a burden to this country; not that
he intended to say that every colony was perfectly satis-
fied with the rece,it policy of the Colonial-office ; but
upon this point, all he could say was, that his Noble
Friend, now at the head of the Colonial Department,
would pay every attention to the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord, he was sure, agreed with him in the
public course that ought to be pursued towards the cold
vies ; and he felt convinced every thing would be done
that could protect or promote the interest of the colo-
nies —(Hear, hear,) Where emigrants were settling in
iarge numbers, he thought they ought to control the ex-
penditure of their own moneys without being sub-
jected to the dictation of any department of the parent
state ; and, with those princip!es for their guidance, he
had not the least doubt whatever Government would be
able to work out a beneficial reformation in the
colonies.—(Cheers.)
Mr. PHILIP HOWARD fully appreciates] the liberal
and patriotic spirit which had dictated the remarks of
the Hon. Member for Sunderland, and the Hon. Mem-
ber for Rochester ; and after what had Fallen from the
Noble Lard, who had just resumed his seat, he thought
they might safely look forward to a speedy and perwa
vent improvement being effected in the colonies.—
(Hear, hear.) There wag no better way of attaining
that improvement, in his opinion, than extending the
contract under which emigrants were brought from
Africa to labour in the West Indies. The time now,
he thought, was too short to admit of the negroes ob-
taining a sufficient knowledge of the art of civilisation,
to render his example of any value when he returned to
his native home.—(Hear, hear.) Though these la-
bourers might at first be considered a burden, they
would in a short time repay the trouble and expense
bestowed noon them. He thought that this step would
be a very great boon to the colonists, and it was one
which the Government might very fairly concede. I
would make the labourers in the West Indies more in-
dustrious.
The remainder of the resolutions were then agreed to
the House resumed, the chairman reported progress,
and the report was ordered to be brought up on Monday
next.

COURTS MARTIAL IN THE NAVY.
On the order of the day for the House resolving itse
into a Committee of Supply,

Mr. WILLIAMS rose for the purpose of calling the
attention of the House to the manner in which courts
martial were constituted and conducted in the British
navy, and in doing so he said he was very unwilling to
. detain the Speaker in the chair, but he considered him-
I self called upon to entreat the House to condemn the
present management of courts martial in the navy,
Gentlemen connected with the navy stated that the ex-
isting laws inflicted the punishment of death for the most
trivial offences; and with the view of making those courts
more in accordance with the feelings of the.ntirs,
and with the present state of criminal. law i this
country, country, he begged to call
existedthe att emnittlho n
regard o f the Houseto
to the law as it at present . .
holding of courts-martialrequired in the British navy. That
i to holding, and the powers of,
The law with re
The law, since that time, had
wasago.taoor:be found in the 22d Act of Geo. 11.,
undergone a
courts-martial
, years
material alteration with regard to holding
t a branch of the public service as
courts-martial in the army, and he thought it was high
time that so important
that of the navy should also receive a proper considera-
tion. The present law with regard to the holding of
courts- martial required five officers at least to be present
at a court, and of those it was requisite that three should
be post captains. Now it happened that if a ship were
out at a foreign station, and charges were brought
against the officer, three post captains could .not be
elapsedayed tob e
ft
ohree
tahcec used.
accused lndeed,w a
was
put
found, and the consequence was that in many instances
justice
months
woaftsendel
his trial. One case of recent occurrence had been
i
hrouelt under his notice of a 'lieutenant who had
be,0,7 put under arrest ; he was consequently disqualified
front th2se performance of his duty; he was kept in a state
of the
tit.44.2st anxiety for a period of twenty-two months.
• That genthon was stationed at the coast of Africa.
The Right Hew. Gentleman the Secretary of the Admi-
ralty,
it appeared, ode: ied the truth of the statement, but
he (Mr. Williams) wo4 ld be able to prove it by the
testimony of a gentleman the the highest respectability.
He could bring forward many cases of a similar descrip-
tion, but he was not willing to tzsespass on the time of
the House. Now, if the same law prevailed in the navy
as that in the army, with respect to the holding of
courts-martial, there need be no unnecessary delays•
the In the army lieutenants were permitted to film'
flst
mem-
bers of the courts, and he submitted that h
lieutenants in the navy were quite as capable lieutenantsof deter-
mining
on the cases occurring in the navy as
gin that
in the army were of judging upon citseso
urin
department of the public service.—
(Hear, bear.)
The Admiralty were bound
in
n common justice
with an officer
to have sent out
a ship
-martial to determine
for the purpose of forming
a crtto whom he had referred.
on the case of the gentleman
most erroneous and
was based on a
The present system
unjtut principle, pad_ it aught be, &trivivu +a but;

manner possible, by qualifying first lieutenants to sit
upon cees that came before courts-martial. They were
quite as capable of discharging the duties of judges WC
young men of twenty-two who had purchased their
comasissions. The Hon. Gentleman then quoted some
tases in which great injustice had been done to officer!,
in the navy charged with non- observance of the rules or
the Admiralty, in consequence of the great delay whiC.ll
took place in the holding of courts-martial.
Colonel FOX said he did not think it quite in order
for the Hon. Member to bring forward a subject which
g.ccurred fourteen years k.,,0 without notice, and when
the Board of Admiralty had just entered into the per-
formance of their duties.
Admiral DUN DAS' said that, if the Hon. Member
would move for any papers with reference to the tram'
action, he would he happy to furnish them to the House.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that he was imputing blame to no '
person whatever in the matter. He was merely stating facts
which he called upon the Government to disprove. The Hon.
Member then alluded to the case of another court-martial,
which had been held contrary to the rules of the Admiralty,
upon Lieutenant Bridge ; the result of which was that the young
officer was dismissed from his ship in a manner whieh. s per-
fectly illegal:- All he wanted was, that there shemld be some
check upon these proceedings, and that with reference to the
sentence of courts-martial, the navy should be placed upon the
same footing as the army.
An Host. MEMBER here moved that the House be counted.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. There were'
however, 40 Members present.
Upon our re- admission to the gallery, we found of
WI LLIANIS on his legs, still addressing the House upon 11:1
subject of the navy. 'lnc Hon. Member then saki that be b
to apologise for trespassing so long on the attention of the
House. He would not have done so upon any other subject
than the present.
Mr. WARD was quite surprised to hear the speech of the°
Hon. Member. He had quoted the cases of two abuse? isf
authority, which occurred thirteen and seven years ago,
reasons why the whole system should be changed. He sh°n g
-;
only say that the subject should receive the early consideratie-
of her Majesty's Government.
Captain BERKELEY said that the case referred to w°
much worse than had been referred to by the Hon. AleinheL'
The crew of the vessel had « kicked up a row" with t; e
and they were taken by the Turkish authorities, 11'.4
br ught to the Commodore's ship, where the case was inquire

into by the captain in presence of the lieutenant.
Sir G. COCKBURN said that the statement of the 111,
Member—that there was no appeal from the sentence Tog
court-martial—was incorrect. As to courts-martial not so •
competent authorities, he admitted that they were 013"ter
learned in the law as the barristers and judges of WestiminS,....
hall. They were courts of honour, as well as courts of :;:b •
There were a number of quirks, and catches, and flaws, „b
were taken advantage of in the one case, but were not allowed 0
the other ; and with reference to the case of Lieut. Bridge, it 'L.
proved that he had insulted the Vice-Consul, but his
turn home the Admiralty considered the case, unstatedre-ih;
to his position, and gave him the command ofa
Hon. Member was only incorrect in his statement that Ate
miralty had se.:t out a ship with a post-captain, in order ;
complete the number necessary for a court-martial. for it„,s-(1
happened that there were enough captains on the stationi ";ta
as a proof there were enough, the captain of 'that ship d„ot to
sit upon the court-martial at all. He warned iiists,
meddle with the discipline of the navy.—( Hear, hear.• 7 as
m
Captain PECHELL reprobated the present sYa_,,"--t the.
pursued in the navy. When a court martial is held a hie,'
present time, the parties are sent for to the captain's I'l- d
and the evidence is taken down by the clerk, but the ii"
.70
is not allowed to be present. Such was the course pursile".„,
the case which was alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleoltero
and it could not be denied but that it was the source of
greatest hardship.
„old'
Sir CHARLES NAPIER said that he had always ti • 10
_a
stood that there existed a great superiority in courts mar jit
held in the navy to those in :he army.—( Hear, hear./ the
the one case the accused was kept in confinement mitt
sod
sentence was confirmed by the Commander-in-Chief,giaesi
whether the party was condemned or acquitted, he was °" 70,1
to remain in confinement until the sentence came bank ;order
more than that, the Commander-in-Chief had a power° „hat
that a revision of the sentence should take place. Weil'oesrt
a power was that to place in the hands of any personheer.)
hear.) But such was not the case in the navy.— (11"r'