The Sun.
London, England, 1848-10-04 00:00:00

1 went towards Carrick. After they left for Ballin-
garry, and when within about a mile of it, they met
some hundreds of persons on the road armed with
pikes and sticks, but he saw no fire-arms among them.
The two gentlemen thereon got off the car, and went
in among the crowd when they got into Ballingarry.
The crowd was up at the chapel gate, and he stopped
at the Cross, but he saw two other gentlemen amongst
them. The witness did not know Mr. O'Brien.
Look about you and see if you can recognise one
of the gentlemen on your ear.
This witness did turn round, and after looking
round the court in every direction but where he was
expected to look, and staring at everything and
everybody but the individual he was asked to recog-
nise, resumed his seat, and replied that he never saw
any of them men before.
What men ? Whom do you mean ?
Mr. WHITESIDE objected to this question being
put, and it was not repeated, but the witness con-
tinued the assertion of his total ignorance that he had
ever seen Mr. O'Brien before.
Mr. Egan examined—He knew Mr. O'Brien, or
the man said to be Smith O'Brien, whom he now saw
in the dock. He saw him at Ballingarry, but kept
no account of the day or date ; it was before the fight
at the Commons. He saw him coming with a body
of men up the street from the cross of Ballingarry
towards the chapel-gate. He could not say if he were
armed; he saw a pistol, or something like it in his
breast, but he could not say wkat it was. He spoke
to the people ; told them he was in dread of being
taken by a warrant from England or somewhere, but
he could not recollect anything more. Another
person whom he named was Dillon, also spoke some-
thing of the same nature, but he did not recollect
the words. After the speeches were over Mr.
O'Brien and the others went into the chapel-yard,
when he said he wanted so many persons for the night
to guard him. He heard that twenty of them, or
thereabouts, acted as his guard, but he did not see
them at all. The witness did not stop with them at
all ; they might have been armed, but he did not see
them. He saw Mr. Doheny with Mr. O'Brien, but
he did not hear them speak to each other. They
went up a hill near the town, after they met, but he
could not say how long they remained there, as he
went home. On the next morning he saw Mr.
O'Brien in the street walking, accompanied by three
or four persons who were strangers to him, and he
could not, therefore, tell their names. He saw two
of them, however, since ; one of whom, he heard,
was M'Manus, and the other O'Donohue. That was
what they were called.
Mr. WHITESIDE objected to that evidence as a
proper identification.
The CHIEF JUSTICE concurred with him, upon
which the Crown proposed to bring forward either
the two prisoners or the man who saw the witness
identify them.
Examination resumed—They went with a mob
through the town, some of whom used to go into
their houses and come out again. They were not in
any order that he could see, nor did he take any
notice
,if they were getting orders from anybody.
He saw some guns down the street with some of them
by the time they were leaving Ballingarry, and after
that he did not see Mr. O'Brien.
To a juror—He saw a crowd down the street, and
some of the men were armed with guns and pikes.
This witness was not cross-examined, and through-
out gave his testimony with great reluctance. He
was a farmer of the humbler class.
John Kavanagh examined—He kept a shop in
Ballingarry, and remembered six or seven gentlemen
coming to his house on Wednesday, the 27th of July.
He did not know any of them before.
Turn about, sir, and see if any of them are in
the dock.
The witness did so, and, like the carman, took a
view of everything in court, but scarcely felt him-
self called on to look at the dock.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Do you see the dock,
sir ? I do, sir.
Do you see any one there who came to your house
on the day in question. Witness—Not to my know-
ledge. They remained in his house all night, and
ate and drank there, but he only went up once to see
them, when he found one flung on a bed here, an-
other there—some sitting and some standing. They
got something to eat at his house, for a dinner was
prepared for them by his wife and servant maid.
They had pork chops and mutton chops for dinner.
It was broad daylight when they came, and went up-
stairs without asking his leave, except one, who said
" I'll be your guest for the night." The witness was
in too great agitation at the time to say they'd come
into his place. He did not see any arms at that
time ; but in the course of the evening saw something
in one man's hand which appeared like a gun. It
was a gun, and during the evening they were passing,
in and out through his shop, and he was standing be-
hind his counter, but he did not know if he should
again know them. About an hour and a half before
they came in, he saw a great crowd in the street,
some of whom were armed. All the gentlemen were
in one room, and some of them left in the morning
about six o'clock. lie did not know whether all of

them returned, but breakfast was prepared for some
of them. The witness saw some of them leave his
house early, and others about eleven o'clock. A few
returned on Friday evening, he thought two or three,
but he could not say if they belonged to the first
party who came.
Were you paid fur the dinner and breakfast got ?
They bought some stockings, and threw a sovereign
on the table.

Now I wish to ask you a plain question, and I
wish you to give a distinct answer. Were any of
those who came to you on Friday evening connected
with the party who came on Wednesday?—Not that
I know ; I was so much agitated that they should
come to me a second time.
To a juror—He: was in agitation that they should
come to his place at all, and was frightened because
he thought they should do something to him, and
in consequence of the mob he saw outside the doors.
Tho witness then withdrew, but was called back
to answer a, juror—He was agitated not because the
mob outside did anything, but because they should
come to his place at all, and he told them so; when
one of them said it made no difference.
Mary Egan, a servant of the last witness esimined

—She remembered the evening:in July some persons,
she did not know if they were gentlemen or not,
came to the house. She was not in when they came,
but saw them afterwards in their bed-rooms. They
had dinner brought up to them by witness, but at
that time they were not in the room, and she sup-
posed they were in the bed-room. There were three
rooms up stairs, one of which was a parlour, and the
other two bed-rooms. Mr. and Mrs. Kavanagh occu •
pied one, and any lodger that came the other. She
only left the dinner on the table, but saw no one.
She laid plates for eight, and cooked the dinner, but
never went in afterwards. They had nothing to
drink but water at dinner, and afterwards, when she
was cleaning the room, they were in it. Her master
and mistress, she believed, occupied their own room,
and she herself occupied the kitchen lobby. They
had breakfast in the same room brought up by the
witness, but she did not see any person in the room,
for she only laid the things on the table and then went
away.

Would you know any of those gentlemen who were
there don't think I would. I know I wouldn't,
for I didn't see them. She remembered the fight at
Farrinrory, but could not recollect if any of the gen-
tlemen wh• stopped at the house,came back after that.
Turn round, now, and see if you know any one in
the dock—The witness did so, and stated she had no
recollection whatever of any person she saw there.
Her mistress, she said, was very unwell at present.
This witness was not cross-examined.

James Norton examined—He lived in July last in
Ballingarry, and remembered Wednesday, the 26th
of July last. He heard the chapel bell ringing early
in the morning, but it was not for prayers. On the
Tuesday evening previous he saw bonfires blazing
from the hills, and several in the immediate neigh-
bourhood of Slievenamon. About twelve o'clock on
Wednesday he saw about 150 persons going from the
town, in the direction of Mullinahone. lie only took
particular notice of one man who came to him while
he stood at his gate, and was armed with a gun. On
the evening of the same day he saw a party coming
back to Ballingarry, who went up the town. He
knew the piers at the chapel gate, near which he said
a gentleman got on a wall.
Turn about now, and see if that gentleman be in
the dock.
Before I do so, it is right I should say that
since I
came into court two gentlemen told me,
and pointed out Mr. O'Brien, saying, " There is Mr.
O'Brien." Before that I did not know him.
Turn round now, and say, did you see that gentle-
man. in Ballingarry ?—I did not, sir, so as to recol-
lect him.
Did you hear any gentleman speak from the wall ?
Mr. WnerEstin objected to such a question
being put.
The CITIEF JUSTICE said there could be no objec-
tion to ask such a question.
Examination resumed—He heard a man speak from
the wall, whom he believed to be a gentleman, but he
did not observe whether he was armed or not, or how
he was dressed.
George Sparrow deposed that he resided near Bal-
lingarry, and remembered being there on Thursday,
the 27th July, when he saw the prisoner in the dock,
Mr. S. O'Brien. It was between eleven and twelve
o'clock, and there were with him from 400 to 500
persons. There were others with him, some of whom
were armed with guns, pistols, blunderbusses, pikes,
pitchforks, and scythes. Mr. O'Brien and those with
him were drilling the people, who were divided into
three parts. Mr. O'Brien was drilling them all in
the commencement, and then Mr. Dillon and :Mr.

Meagher commenced also. They were marching up
and down the streets, and the persons who had
their arms went into the houses at each side of
the street on receiving some word of command

from Mr. O'Brien, and when inside the doors pre-
sented the muzzles of their guns out into the streets,
while the pikemen were ranged across them. This
was going on for a couple of hours up and down the
street. O'Brien had a belt and a case of pistols, and
Dillon another. He did not know Mr. Meagher, but
he heard his name called out then. Mr. O'Brien had
a green cap with gold lace around it, and after the
drilling he pointed to one of the men, namely, John
Cormick, saying he should be a commander, and ready
whenever called on with the rest. He called him
Lieutenant-Colonel M'Cormick.—(A laugh.) He
also said that Cunningham should be one, after which
Cunningham told the people to go and get arms, and if
the farmers did not give them, or if they knew where
they were, to go and take them, and mark them. Mr.
O'Brien left Ballingarry shortly after, about 2 o'clock,
on a common car, going in the direction of New Bir-
mingham, but turned back at Jack Bryan's cross, about
three-quarters of a mile from Ballingarry. Armed
men went before the car, and pikes behind it, and
Mr. Dillon rode after it on horseback. There were
400 or 500 with it. The witness saw all this, be-
cause he had been in the village, and was going in
that direction home. Shortly after this a gentleman
on horseback came up to Mr. O'Brien, and de-
livered him a letter at the Cross, which, after read-
ing, he turned off in the direction of Mullinahone.
The armed men accompanied him, but the mob went
away.
Cross-examined by Mr. WIIITESIDE—His father-
in-law was a farmer, but now in the police, and the
witness himself had no occupation whatever. He did
not expect to get any remuneration whatever for his
evidence. He swore two informations, between which
there were thirty-four days ; and swore the last at
the instance of Mr. Fitimaurice, who was, he believed
a stipendiary magistrate.
John O'Donnell was next produced; but on
coming on the table refused to be sworn. He was
a respectable-looking man, and much above the
better class of farmers. On the oath being ad-
ministered, he exclaimed with much vehemence,
that they might place him before a file of soldiers,
and shoot him, but while there was a heart there
(laying his hand on his breast), he would never give
evidence.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL applied to their Lord-
ships that the witness be taken into custody for re-
fusing to give evidence.
The Cuisr JusTics—Do you refuse to be sworn ?
The witness, in a firm tone—My Lords, my brother
is concerned in these trials, and let the law take its
course ; he would not give evidence.
The Criur JUSTICE—If you do not you shall
answer for it. Take him into custody.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—It is right I should
say, my Lords, that I do not propose to examine the
witness against his brother, but only on the present
trial.

The witness—l'll not go home to my family after
being a witness here. I'll not be a witness directly
or indirectly ; let the law take its course.
The witness was then removed in custody.
Thomas Burke, a farmer's labourer, and one who
joined the insurgents, was next sworn—He remem-
bered the Wednesday at Ballingary, in July last,
when he went to Mullinahone,with above fifty others.
They were all of them armed. Some of them had
guns, some of them had pikes and pitchforks, and
others scythes. They met another party within
about three miles of Mullinahone ; after which they
came back to Ballingarry. The man they said was
Mr. S. O'Brien was present that day, and several
other gentlemen, but he could not say how many.
When they came back to Ballingarry he made a
speech there ; and M'Cormick commanded the men.
The witness did not know Mr. Doheny ; and he
heard Mr. O'Brien say that if the farmers or people
did not give up their arms to take them, and that
they should keep those they had, for the time was
come when they were called on to use them. Mr.
Smith O'Brien stopped at John Kavanagh's that night,
and of those that followed him into the chapel yard,
some of them were armed, and some not. While
there a man came on horseback, and rode into the
chapel yard, but witness did not go in. The next
morning he saw Mr. O'Brien, about nine o'clock,
coming out of Kavanagh's ; a great number of people
were in the street, some armed, and some not. Mr.
M'Manus, about an hour after, rode in on a horse,
and a man named M'Carthy was drilling men in the
lower part of the town. As soon as M'Manus
came he joined M'Carthy in drilling ; and about
eleven o'clock he saw O'Brien with them; the num-
ber of armed men was not at that time more than
sixty. M'Manus had a pistol in a belt round his
waist; M'Carthy a gun; and another a dagger and a
pistol. O'Brien ordered theta to go into a garden,
upon which they presented their guns, over the
ditch towards the road, then they ran up the road ;
and after being drilled about an hour and a half, left
for Mullinahone. That was about two or three
o'clock. The next time he saw Mr. O'Brien was on
Saturday, at Farrinrory, at Mrs. M'Cormack's house,
which was about two and a half or three miles from
Ballingarry. When witness got there the police were
in the house and about it. A nUmbcr of pciautia
rived with guns, pitchforks, and pikes. As far as he
could safely say, there were about 300 or 400 over
and better in every place. He also saw gentlemen
there armed, and recognised among them some he

had seen in Ballingarry. He saw kr. S. O'Brien,
Mr. M'Manus, and the small gentleman who had the
daggers and was drilling the men in Ballingarry.
The gentlemen were trying to make the police give
up their annA, as far as he could see. lie saw John
M'Cormack at Farrinrory, but he was not armed.
The witness was behind a garden wall when he saw
the men outside firing in, and a man knocked down
by his side by those within, who was killed. He saw
Mr. O'Brien on the window stool, speaking to the
police inside, accompanied by another man. That
was before the firing took place, and at the time it
took place I heard M'Manus cry out to burn the
house. He could not, however, understand what
Mr. O'Brien said, but he appeared to be speaking.
Cross•examined by Mr. FITZGERALD—He was a
summons server at the Petty Sessions, and was ap-
prehended in Ballingarry, but he did not hear he was
to be prosecuted.
Thomas Sullivan examined—This boy was a. car-
driver, and deposed to his having driven Mr. O'Brien,
Mr. O'Donohue, and Mr. Dillon Browne—(A laugh)
—from a place called Cappouge to Ballingarry. At
least he heard them call him by that name. He saw
arms with Mr. Smith O'Brien, but he did not know
if the others had any. The witness further proved
that he drove them afterwards to Killenaule, and
identified Mr. O'Brien as one of them.
Thomas Walsh examined—He kept an hotel at
Killenaule, and remembered hearing of some gentle-
men coming to his house in July last, but he was
then in bed.

Turn round and see if you know the gentleman
who is looking at you in the dock.—l don't know
whether Ido or not. I know the gaoler—(Laughter)
but Ido not know that gentleman. The witness
continued to say that he was about his shop on the
day in question, and did not mind any one who came
there; besides, the town was in such a dreadful state
that he and his wife left it on the day of the barri-
cades. . _

Mr. WHITESIDE contended that the Attorney-
General had no right to scold this witness.
The witness—He may scold away.—(Laughter.)
Examination resumed—They paid him 195. the
next day, and left town on his car, but he did not
see them. He knew Mr. Doheny, the barrister, about
three years ago, but he was not in his house in the
month of July.
.T. Mathew deposed that he lived in liillenaule, and
was there the day the barricades were thrown up. Be
saw Mr. S. O'Brien, and believed it occurred about
one or two o'clock. There were four others with him,
one of whom wore a plaid scarf like across his
shoulders, and another a patent belt with a pistol.
Mr. O'Brien, when he saw him, had a pistol in his
hand, and another a rifle on his shoulder. The barri-
cade was at the lower end of the street, the hotel at
the other, and he saw them walk down from one to
the other. The road at which it was erected led from
Fethard to Killenaule. The witness saw two of them
armed standing at Walsh's door, and after the chapel
bell was rung several country people came into the
town with scythes and pitchforks, but only four pikes.
He saw them making the barricade about eleven
o'clock. Two officers passed by in a gig, immediately
after which the barricade was constructed of jaunting
cars and carts, some of which were filled with turf.
After the troops were let pass through, Mr. Dillon
walked with the officer through the town and cleared
him through ; it might he a quarter of an hour from
the time the barricade was erected until the military
passed. Mr. O'Brien was at this time, at the upper
end of the street, but he did not go up.
' Richard Shee, a farmer's labourer, then appeared on
the table, and refused to be sworn, upon which,
The CHIEF JUSTICE addressing him said, your
omitting to take the oath is a contempt of this court,
and I am bound, therefore, to tell you that unless you
do so, I will commit you to gaol.
The witness—Do so—l will never give evidence.
He was then committed to gaol.
Wm. Parsons examined—He belonged to a party
of the Bth Hussars, who marched from Fethard
through Killenaule on the day in question, under the
command of Captain Longmore. The witness was
in the advanced guard, and was stopped in his passage
by the barricade made of big trees, 'cars, and carts,
There was a second erected four hundred or five
hundred yards further on, and behind them were
three hundred or four hundred men armed with
scythes, guns, pikes, and other weapons. As soon as
the witness advanced, two men came up, one with a
pike, and another with a rifle, and the man with the
rifle said if he did not halt he would blow his brains
out. The man that had the rifle said they would
kill all the b soldiers, and the witness waited
until the captain came tip. He thought the time he
reached the barricade was between nine and ten in ,
the morning, and they were delayed for nine or ten