The Sun.
London, England, 1848-05-20 00:00:00

DIYERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, May 19.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Wcol
sack at Five o'clock.
The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented several
petitions against the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill.
Lord HATHERTON presented several petitions in
favour of the Bill.
'she Bishop of DURHAM also presented several peti-
tions in favour of the Bill.
The Earl of HADDINGTON presented a petition
from Edinburgh, praying for the removal of the test
imposed oa professions in Scottish Universities.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS (INDIA) BILL.
On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, the Insolvent
Debtors (India) Bill was read a third time and passed.
Lord STANLEY presented a petition, praying their
Lordships to pass some measure, giving the Church a
veto over the appointment of Bishops by the Crown.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDIC presented some
petitions in favour of the Sanitary Bill.
The Earl of EGLINTON presented petitions from
Glasgow, Paisley, and other places, against the Scotch
Births and Marriages Registration Bill.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition
from Paisley, praying for an alteration in the Scotch
Poor-law, so far as regarded rating; also several peti-
tions from various lodges of Odd Fellows, praying for
the legalization of their society; also several petitions
in favour of the l'ree Church Sites (Scotland) Bill.
Earl GREY presented a very large number of peti-
tions in favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill.
POOR HOUSES (IRELAND) BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee.
CROWN LIVINGS.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF rose to move an humble
address to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty will
be graciously pleased to consent to the introduction of
a Bill for kmiting the time during which Church bene-
fices in the gift of the Crown may be kept vacant. The
present privilege of the Crown was extremely injurious
in its operation. In the case which he was going to
refer to there was no charge of unsound doctrine or im-
morality; but the evil was a groat one. There were
many parts of Wales in which the Welsh language was
still spoken, and particularly so in Glamorganshire,
where in almost every parish the Welsh as well as the
English language was sp.:men; and a merelearning,of the
language from a dictionary and a grammar, likes school-
boy, would never qualify a man to be the pastor of a
parish. A gentleman called Paynton had been ap-
pointed by the Lord Chancellor to a parish in his dio-
cese—(Llanelly, we understood)—who did not tho-
roughly understand the Welsh language. He wrote to
Mr. Paynton, and told him it would be necessary that
he should be examined in the Welsh language, • and the
result reported to him. He also desired the rural dean,
who had resided in that neighbourhood for thirty years,
to ascertain whether it was necessary that the
minister of the parish should understand Welsh,
and his answer was, that the people said they were all
Welsh; and he was of opinion that it was a clear case
for an examination. A memorial had also been pre-
sented to him (the Bishop) signed by the churchwar-
dens and many of the inhabitants of the parish,
x
pressing a wish to have a clergyman conversant weeit_,
h-
the language. Mr. Paynton declined to be exam
and said that as he had several times preachedin in
Welsh, he hoped that would be considered sufficient. A
Mr. Griffith, a clergyman in the neighbourhood, who
understood the Welsh language well, agreed to ex-
change with Mr. Paynton for the living which he held,
if the Lord Chancellor would accede to it. He (the
Bishop), however, wrote to the Lord Chancellor in
October last, but did not get an answer even frum his
private secretary. He had, under tthe
_circumstances,
declined to institute Mr. Paynton, but the living
being in the gift of the Crown, there was no lapse,
although in any other case where a living was not
in the gift of the Crown, it could not remain vacant
for more than six months. He had taken an opportunity
since of expressing to the Lord Chancellor his view of
the clue, but without effect; and things remained as they
were before. In Jaivary last the living of St. Andrew,
one of the best in point of income in his diocese, also in
the gift of the Crown, became vacant. For want of a
good resident clergyman during the last twenty years
the congregation in the church had been reduced to only
about five persons out of a population of 500. The last
minister who was appointed to the living did not under-
stand the !engage, and the only remedy he (the Bishop)
had, was to compel him to appoint a curate who under-
stood the Welsh language. He wrote to the Lord Chan-
cellor when he found the living was about to become
vacant, to urge the necessity of the appointment of a cler-
gyman who understood the Welsh language, but he had
not received a reply, and that was nearly five months ago.
The other day, however, a gentleman from Kent called
on him, and, having used the name of the Lord Chancel-
lor, asked if he (the Bishop) would object to induct him
to the living. He found, however, that he did not know
the Welsh language, and although he offered to employ
a curate who did, he (the Bishop) could not consent to
violate the rule which fie had laid down. The form of
the presentation by the Crown was in the most peremp-
tory terms. He could 'not, however, believe that the
honoured mother of the Prince of Wales would give her
sanction to any measure which offered an indignity to a
Bishop, and which was most offensive and insulting to
the people of his diocese. He had put his motion in a
form praying her Majesty to take means to prevent the
recurrence of such cases ; but he also hoped that some
remedy might be found for the present one. Unless
some alteration were made in the mode of dispensing
the Church patronage in the gift of the Crown in \Vales,
the whole country would be ringing with complaints.
It was a growing evil which called for a public remedy ;
and although he might not press his motion to a division,
he hoped it would lead to the adoption of some measure
which would prevent the recurrence of the evil of which
be complained.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the Right Rer.
Prelate's motion sought to propose a remedy for that
which he considered an evil in the existing state of the
law; but his speech had nothing whatever to do with the
subject, for it related more or less to a knowledge of the
Welsh language by persons who had been appointed to
livings in his diocese. The Right Rev. Prelate wanted
to limit the time during which Church livings in the
gift of the Crown might be kept vacant. Why, the first
living to which he had referred had become vacant in
June, and a clergyman who had been appointed to it
presented himself to the Right Rer. Prelate to be insti-
tuted in July. The second living became vacant in Ja
nuary, and in April the party to whom it was offered
tendered himself to the Right Rev. Prelate for institu
Lion. By an extraordinary combination of error, the
Right Right Reverend Prelate would invade the prero•
gative of the Crown, and deprive Parliament of its
privileg,es. He proposed that the Crown should 11,-
limited in the time of presentation, which would be an
invasion of its prerogative; and it was now the privilege
of any Member of that House to lay on the table a mea
sure for the purpose contemplated by the Right Rey.
Prelate, and proceed to a certain stage, without the
consent of the Crown. It was also the prerogative of
the Crown to dissent from the Bill in any stage. The
average time that had elapsed between the lapse of
livings that had fallen in, and their filling up by nomi
nation of fresh incumbents, was three months. There
were, as the Right Rev. Prelate said, more than 700
kvings in the gift of the Chancellor, but half of them
were below 2001. a year in value, and great difficulty
existed in finding persons qualified who would accept of
such small livings. Whilst he was ready to admit the
great merits of the Right Rev. Prelate, he must say that
he thought he was mistaken in the view he took of the
question. He di.i not mean to say that the Right Rev.
Prelate had practised a surprise upon him in the present
case; but he certainly had given no notice of his intention
to enter upon the general subject which he had discussed.
The questien of a knowledge of the Welsh language
being essential for the incumbent of Welsh livings had
often been mooted, and there was a number of great
authorities who stated it to be their opinion that it was
not an essential, but the contrary. He had always
been anxious to receive advice from a Bishop of a diocese
on the subject of appointments in the Church; but when
he found, as in the case of the Right Rev. Prelate, that a
very strong opinion had always been formed as to the
mode in which the exercise of the prerogative of the
Crown ought to be used, then it behoved him to be
extremely cautious how he entertained any such advice.
The Noble and Learned Lord then entered into a
statement of the facts relative to the refusal
of the Bighop of' Llandeff to induct the gen-
tleman nominated to the living of St. Andrew's,
from which it appeared that the Bishop refused
to institute any one who was not a Welshman into any
living within his Welsh diocese, With respect to Mr.
Sampson, he denied that there was any relationship be-
tween himself and that reverend gentleman, and the as-
sertion was pure invention that Mr. Sampson was his
relative. He had appointed that gentleman, on condition
that he was acquainted with the Welsh language, but
when he demanded to be examined in Welsh before the
Bishop, the Right Rev. Prelate refused, and nothing
would satisfy him but to have the appointment bestowed
upon a Welshman. With respect to the letter which the
Right Rev. Prelate had addressed to him relative to the
vacancy at St. Andrew's, it only amounted to the fact
that the Right Rev. Prelate had two or three candidates
who knew Welsh whom he wished to have appointed,
but certainly he (the Lord Chanoellor) did not think,
whatever might be the respect he had for the office of
the Bishop. that the Right Reverend Prelate ought to be
allowed to interfere with the exercise of the prerogative
of the Crown. The Right Reverend Prelate had certainly
4nne as he had promised, sad brought the subject
before the House of Lords, but in doing so he had been
obliged to bring himself before the House, and now the
only question was whether his doing so had been more
to the disadvantage of the patron than of himself. The
other instance brought forward by the Right Rev. Pre-
late was that of a gentleman who had been appointed to
a small living in Wales which fell vacant in June last;
the Right Rev, Prolate had refused to institute him on
the ground that he was not sufficiently well versed in the
Welsh language, but he (the Lord Chancellor) begged
to recall to the Right Rev. Prelate's memory a letter
weitteu by him in the year 1238, wherein he mentions
with great praise the exertions of the very gentleman in
question, admitting that he was well qualified to officiate
In the Welsh language, aid to preach in that language,
and stating that the reverend gentleman had performed
his duties satisfactorily for many years in his diocese;
and, yet, when this same gentleman presented himself
for institution before the Right Rev. Prelate, the latter
refused, on the ground that he was not qualified to offi-
eiata i a the Welsh language. From that time to the
present he had taken no steps in the matter, but had
awaited the results of the proceedings which the Right
Rev. Prelate had expressed his intention to resort to, of
the propriety of which their Lordships would now be
qualified to judge. -
The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S entertained no doubt
of she determination of the Noble and Learned Lord to
exercise his patronage in the most conscientious manner,
and, indeed, he was able to speak to this fact from hit
owe knowledge. The question before the House, how-
ever, was in no degree mixed up with that larger Qua to