The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-25 00:00:00

CORN-LAWS

The Duke of RICHMOND presented numerous petitions
from the West and North Riding of Yorkshire, the counties of
Derby, Cornwall, and Devon, in England ; Montgomeryshire,
in Wales • Forfar, Elgin, and Aberdeenshire, in Scotland; and
Tyrone, Carlow, and Londonderry, in Ireland, against the Go-
vernment measure.
HIGH CONSTABLES' BILL.

The Noats Dux then gave notice that he intended to
move that the High Constables' Bill be referred to the Com-
mittee which was to be named on Thursday next.
THE CASE OF BRIAN SEERY.

The Marquis of WESTMEATH wished to call the atten-
tion of their Lordships to a question which had been put to the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of the Home Depart-
ment, in the other House, last night, relating to the case of
Brian Seery, who was recently convicted at Mulinger, and it
was answered by the Right Hon. Gentleman that a deputation
proceeded from the county of Westmeath to the Lord Lieu-
tenant of Ireland with the object of impressing on his mind to
allow the law to take its course. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man having thus answered the question, he (the
Marquis of Westmeath) considered, under the
circumstances, it was his duty to bring the matter
under their consideration. He regretted such an
answer had been given, as no deputation on the subject did
proceed from the county of Westmeath to the Lord Lieuteuinoaawanitnetetrotoe:
of Ireland.
The Earl ST. GERMANS rose to order. With the greatest
respect he must tell the Noble Marquis, that it was not proper
to advert in that manner to what took place in the other
House.
Lord BROUGHAM concurred, and said that it was ex-
ceedingly irregular to refer to a speech purporting to be made
in the other House, and which was only known to the Noble
Marquis through the ordinary channels of communication, or
as he (Lord Brougham) would say plainly, the newspapers.—
(Hear, and laughter. )
The Earl St. GERMANS said the more regular course
would have been for the Noble Marquis to have given notice of
his intention to put the question, and then he (the Earl St.
Germans) would have been prepared to give an answer. As
it was, he was quite incapable of answering it or making any
explanation.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH had no desire to adopt any
unusual proceeding, nor to take any member of the Govern-
ment in that House by surprise, by referring to statements
made by one of his colleagues in the other House without
giving notice of his intention. He was anxious to
contradict the statement to which he referred, on the
earliest possible moment, for when that statement ar-
rived in Ireland, the portion of the press which considered
that Brian Seery ought to have been executed would vitupe-
rate the magistrates of the county, and there was no telling to
what injury they might be subjected in consequence. He ad-
mitted that in courtesy he ought to have given notice of his in-
tention to pot the question, but tho noncatity of giving an
immediate contradiction to the assertion must be his
apology. He therefore wished to ask the Noble Earl
(Earl St. Germans) if the Secretary of State in his place
admitted that such a deputation did wait upon the Lord Lieu-
tenant, and that he regretted the circumstance, as it was un-
called-for.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—In what place?
The Marquis of WESTMEATH—In the other House.—
(Laughter).
The LORD CHANCELLOR—Then the Noble Earl can-
not answer the question.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM suggested that his Noble
Friend should give notice on Thursday of his intention to put
his question to the Noble Earl.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH was understood to assent
to the suggestion, and there the matter dropped.
THE LAW OF ABDUCTION.
Lord BROUGHAM said, in presenting a petition, that there
were very serious anomalies in the law relating to abduction
which required amendment. After referring to the cases of
Edward Gibbon Wakefield and the late Lord Redesdale, he
proceeded to present a petition from Jane Worthing, a widow,
whose husband died in 1842; as her circumstances were reduced
in consequence of the death of her husband, she was induced
to take a lodger into her house, named Burton Newnhan.
He thus became acquainted with this widow and her
daughter, and soon after the death of Worthing the suc-
cession to an estate worth 4001. per annum opened to
the daughter, and upon learning this Newnhan commenced
his opperations for getting possession of the daughter.
He contrived to visit the house of the widow, when
he was no longer a ledger, but his advanced age
lulled all the suspicions and apprehensions of the
mother. He took the opportunity one evening, while the
mother was absent from home, to call and tell the daughter
that her mother wished to see her at his solicitor's, in Fur-
1-livers Inn. The girl was a mere child, did not know where
Furnival's Inn was, but she, nevertheless, not having any idea
of his intentions, readily consented to accompany him, and he
conveyed her to the Euston-square station of the London and
Birmingham Railway, and subsequently effected her abduction.
By the present law, a man may be inveigled into a marriage
that nothing could set aside. Here was a person of
forty years of age inveigling a child into a marriage,
which there is no power to annul. That was the law
of Scotland at present. He brought in a Bill to remedy
that law, but others determined to keep it, and thus the law as it
at present exists was what he could call nothing but a gross and
brutal law. He took off this young girl, and when he came
back he was tried for abduction at the Central Criminal Court,
and was very properly convicted by the learned judge, Baron
Gurney, who in passing sentence said, he never heard of such
a case before. He was now undergoing that most just and
righteous sentence of the law, an imprisonment for a period of
two years. The Bill he proposed would not dissolve that
marriage ; that eould not now be cured, but he (Lord
Brougham) hoped their Lordships would give their attention to
the present measure to prevent such occurrences in future. In
the case before their Lordships a marriage actually took place,
and he could not then question the validity of that
marriage, as he did not wish to provoke a discussion,
and would'
therefore abstain from arguing the case.
If no remedy were given for this state of things, the greatest
evils would continue to result. He considered it too bad that
one party should by stratagem and artifice be allowed to prey
upon the ignorance, innocence, and even weakness of another
party. In the present case there would be a transfer of
400/. a year, which was her property, and over which she would
cease to have any control unless their Lordships interfered. He
hoped, therefore, that their Lordships would take the matter
into their consideration, and remedy the grievances he had
stated.
The LORD CHANCELLOR suggested that it would be
desirable to have the petition printed before any other steps
were taken in the matter.
Lord BROUGHAM had no objection that the petition
should be printed.
Lord CAMPBELL entered his solemn protest against the
course proposed to be adopted by the Noble Lord. He approved
of the Bill to dissolve the marriage in such cases as that of
Wakefield and Turner, where she left the man an intact
virgin, but he could not assent to it as being at all appli-
cable to those cases where the marriage was consummated.
When a marriage was celebrated according to the law of
Scotland—when that marriage was consummated—when
the parties afterwards lined together as man and wife,
and when, perhaps, children were born the fruit of
that union—to talk of dissolving a marriage under
such circumstances, and to make the children illegiti-
mate, was contrary to all principle, and involved far more
serious evils than those which this Bill sought to remedy.
The Law of Scotland, he admitted, was ex-.
tremely defective on the subject, and he hoped
that the Learned Judges of this country would see the propriety
of returning to the opinion which they entertained in 1835, but
while the law remained as it was, it must be respected and
obeyed. To talk therefore of dissolving marriages contracted
in the way stated, was eontrary to all principles of justice, and
if once they made a change of the nature proposed, where, he
would ask, where they to stop?
Lord BROUGHAM said, that if all these marriages
contracted under the same circumstances, he did not see that any
great harm would follow from dissolving them. If a robber of
forty years of age entered a house and carried off a child of four.
teen, pretending to take her to Furnival's Inn, and by a gross
fraTTudhheecoLEnotarrßalcDtoefdc
sHaliAmANaFrcrTiEagELseL,Bohußeßtsyhaiodusgtahhidatttiihtte:calaosnasnumomte
that marriage only aggravated the offence.
equivalent to petitioners presenting their own
opfrinfotrmpe,titailoidns.
consummation
petition at the bar.
Leave was then given to print the petition.
CORN-LAWS.
Lord KINNAIRD presented a petition from some place
in Scotland, praying that the repeal of the corn-laws should be
total and immediate.
BROAD AND NARROW GAUGE.
Lord KINNAIRD, in pursuance of the question of which
he had given notice, said, that among the many important
measures likely to come before the House this session, both as
regarded their social and commercial position, he thought the
railways one that required their most serious considera-
tion. In whatever view they examined this subject—
whether as enabling the merchant to dispense with
a heavy stock of goods in hand, and so to turn over his capital
more frequently, or as conveying agricultural produce with
greater facility to the markets for them, or as facilitating social
intercourse by their speedy transit—in all of these views it was
incumbent on the Government to secure as far as in their
power the safety and regularity of these railways. There were
other points to which he wished to draw the attention of the
Government, and one of these was the advantages which these
lines would give as investments for funds left for the benefit of
hospitals and other charities, and the increased facility which
would be given to the transmission of troops from one portion
of the country to another. This had been referred to in the
report itself, and it was a subject which had forced itself on the
consideration of the Noble Duke apposite and the moot eminent
military men in the country. He thought it was of the first
importance that Parliament should introduce some regular
system into the working of these lines. At present many
accidents occurred, which, as they militated against the rail-
ways on which they might happen, were sedulously concealed
from the public. Indeed, it was said, that until a Peer of the
Realm or Member of Parliament should be killed, no reform
could be expected in this particular.—( Hear, hear, and
loud laughter.) The report referred, at some length,
to the rate of gauge over the country. They
stated that there was no plan to remedy this state of
things, and that it was impossible to have two lines on the
same gauge. Now he really believed that the report had been
drawn up with great fairness, and that they had taken con-
siderable pains to acquire information; yet he thought, on
looking at the report, that it appeared to be in favour of the
broad gauge, except as regarded one or two points relating to
waggons for the c.rriage of goods and merchandise. But not-
withstanding that, on looking at the report, he found that they
really recommended the adoption of the narrow gauge, and
that all railways should in future be on that gauge. Now,
after having read that report, he was somewhat surprised at
that, because he found that it was impossible to go at that high
speed which they could at present, with perfect safety to the
public. He hoped that the Legislature would not at present
put any limit to the speed of railway travelling by legislating
in the manner recommended by the report. He thought that
the Commissioners had fallen into some error in their labours,
because in their report they said that it was impossible to
alter the narrow gauge into a wider one, ou account of
the width of the waggons, tee. Now, in his opinion it was a
great fallacy. If their Lordships were to inquire, they would
could with great
rather
t h easee r be
altered as.
find that all waggons were capable of a much greater dimension
than
theys o
aswetroe
suitat a
present,siarfo 0 at
gndau theygo.
I t did h
appearga
tounding to say that it was not perfectly practicable to alter
2000 miles of railway from the broad on to the narrow gauge.
He contended it was perfectly practicable without inconveni-
encing
xtpheen publicso.
Htso
diddo sno
0,
tand o l
ithatose therete ,
w withoutas
a companyany ext extraordi-
nary redai_-
istanee but what was now before parliament this day, for
alterations, in many cases as important as this. He found that
there were two companies that had entirely changed the whole
of their rails without stopping their traffic ; and there was the
thataltered
the
difficulty without the
was
not stoppage of the
so very great. Eastern Counties Railway Company that had the gauge
trTaihe ns.
onlyT objectionhisshoed
was the great expense, and on this point he hoped the Noble
Lord would make inquiry before the measure contemplated by
the Government was introduced into the House. In making the
changes, it would be easy in his (Lord Kinnaird's) opinion, to
e
provide for the expense by issuing Exchequer loans for this
purpose, and calling upon all the railway companies to pay a

tax at so much per mile for a given number of years. In his
opinion, twenty years would be sufficient to pay off the advance.
Some such plan as this would easily meet the case. It had
been estimated that about a million of money would be required
to change the broad into the narrow gauge and taking that as
the basis of the calculation, he thought that seven millions
would be more than enough for the conversion of the narrow
into the broad guage. That would at least be the outside. With
these observatimns he would sit down by asking the question of
which he had given notice, which was, when the Noble Lord
(the Earl of Dalhousie) expected the evidence on whieh the
Gauge Commission had founded this report would be laid on
the table, and also whether the Noble Lurd was able to declare
what the Uevernmentintended to do in relation to that report?

The Earl of DALHOUSIE said he would not folloW the
Noble Lord in the general observations he had made respecting
the merits of the gauges, but reserve what he had to say till a
future period. The appointment of the Gauge Commission did
not arise in the other House out of the merits of the gauges,
but out of the diversity of guage, and the inconveniences that
arose from that diversity. An address was presented to the
Crown, and a Commission was appointed to inquire into the
gauges laid down in this country—into their diversity, and to
report what means they thought it advisable to adopt in conse-
quence of this diversity, and if possible how an uniformity of
gauge might be obtained on all the lines in the kingdom. The
Commissioners had made the report, and it had been laid on
their Lordships' table. The Commissioners recommeded in the-
first place, that the four-feet eight-inch-and-a-half or narrow
gone, be the universal guage of Great Britain, and that all
railroads now in the course of construction should be compelled
to form their lines according to this guage; and they further re-
commended that an endeavour shouldbe made todiscover means
by which an equitable arrangement might be effected with the
proprietors of the lines laid down upon the principle of broad
gauge for their alteration to uniformity with the narrow gauge.
The question, he could assure their Lordships, was one of the
greatest importance—( Hear, hear)—and must he carefully and
deliberately discussed.—(Cheers.) The alteration of the
guage would either be productive of good or evil to the public,
besides affecting the enormous amount of capital which had
been expended in the construction of broad gauge liner, the
construction of which had been sanctioned by Parliament.
They were, however, aware that no effect could be given to
the recommendations of the Gauge Commissioners without the
passing of an Act of Parliament ; and the Government, though
they had every confidence in the ability of the gentle-
men to whom the task was intrusted would not
act on the simple recommendations of the Commissioners, but
would first take every step to afford themselves and the Mem-
bers of the Legislature an opportunity of judging whether the
recommendations of the Commissioners were founded on the
promises submitted to them. lie knew the anxiety of the
House on the subject, and they would, therefore, think it right
that the Government should not take any steps until they had
had an opportunity of examining the evidence furnished to
them, which he expected would be laid upon the table in
the course of a fortnight or three weeks. No delay would
take place. It would have been furnished with the report,
but in the present state of public business it was impossible to
obtain the publication of a large body of evidence in a short
period.
Lord BROUGHAM was in favour of taking time to con-
sider the question, as their decision would effect an immense
amount of capital, and millions yet unborn. It was a mistake
to suppose that the report had given general satisfaction to
engineers and scientific men.
Lord H ATHERTON said the House must bear in mind
that the Commission was appointed on the recommendation of
those interested in the narrow gauge. Great caution and
deliberation was therefore necessary. Before he sat down he
wished to call the attention of the House to the absolute neces-
sity of maintaining the principle of competing lines between
large and populous towns. Passengers passing between
London and Birmingham and London and Lancashire were at
the mercy of one company. The interest of the public could
not he secured without competition, and he hoped their Lord-
ships' Railway Committees would bsar this fact in mind.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY perfectly agreed with
the Noble Lord, that the interest of the public could only be
secured by the establishment of competing lines. In the part
of the country with which he was connected, nearly all the
railways were under the management of one company, and
from what had transpired at a recent meeting held in York,
he learned that it was proposed to amalgamate all the lines in
the north of England, and to place them under the manage.
ment of one individual.—( Hear, hear.) Still, when he
thought of the importance of those measures, he thought the
time was come when the Government should be cautious
about their proceedings, and that it was their duty to nar-
rowly watch those Bills that came up proposing to connect
railway branches, docks, and canals, with great competing
lines. At the same time, he entirely agreed with his Noble
Friend, that it was absolutely necessary that there should be
competing branch lines.
Earl GREY said he had one observation to correct respect-
ing what had been stated at his side of the House. He could
assure their Lordships that the Commission on the gauges
was not asked for by gentlemen who were inte-
rested in railway lines. He (Lord Grey) supported
the Hon. Member for Stockport, who moved the address to
have that Commission appointed. At that time, he (Earl
Grey) was in favour of the broad gauge, and he believed they
asked for the Commission exclusively on these grounds—that
they thought it was most important to have the question in-
vestigated by competent authorities in order, ,if possible, to
remedy the inconveniencies that would arise by a difference of
gauge. He thought that was the question which ought to be
referred chiefly to a proper authority. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment had appointed Commissioners, who had ably discharged
the duty imposed on them, and he (Earl Grey) considered that
the Report was a most able document. He could not differ
from the Noble Lord, notwithstanding that it would be proper
to take time to confider how they were to act, although that
was a case in which delay would create serious inconvenience,
as it was most important that the decision of Government
should be known with the least possible delay.
MILITARY OPERATIONS IN INDIA.

The Duke of WELLINGTON—I have to acquaint your
Lordships that my Noble Friend, the President of the Board
of Control will, on Monday, submit to your Lordships certain
resolutions relating to the proceedings of the forces of her
Majesty in their late operations in the East Indies. Your
Lordships will receive, on Thursday or Friday next, certain
papers referring to those operations, in order that your Lord..
shipqmay have thefallest information on the:subject.—( Hear.)
The Earl of ST. GERMANS having obtained permission
from Earl Grey to allow his Bills to take precedence of the
resolutions which the Noble Earl intended to propose, brought
up the report on the
PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) BILL.
Certain amendments were then proposed and agreed to with-
out discussion.

THE PIERS AND HARBOURS (IRELAND) BILL.
Earl ST. GERMANS, in moving that this Bill be read a
second time, said that the money proposed to be lent by the
Bill would, in a great measure, develope the very great natural
resources of Ireland, which at present lay dormant in come-
quence of the poverty of her people. When proper piers, &c.
were constructed, the people would be furnished with employ-
ment, and a cheap and wholesome focal. It was a remarkable
fact that in Ireland there were 700 miles of coast in which were
some of the finest harbours in the world, and yet there were
not more than 2,600 boats employed along the whole coast,
and the number of people employed in them did not exceed
80,000 or 90,000. Now he thought it was most important the
native resources of Ireland should be encouraged and properly
developed. It was proposed to advance money to any county
that might require the !same for the purpose of constructing
piers, &c. in the neighbourhood ; and that county was made
amply resposible for the repayment of the money so borrowed.
If a small district applied for money, that district was made
responsible ; and if a private individual were allowed any mo-
ney for these purposes, his land was pledged for the repayment
of the sum lent. He believed that a measure, which was simi-
lar to the present, and bad passed a session or two ago, had
worked well, and he had therefore much pleasnre in moving
the second reading of the present Bill, as he confidently be-
lieved that it would work equally well.
The LORD CHANCELLOR having put the question,
Lord MONTEAGLE rose for the purpose of giving his
support to the Bill. He hoped that the people of Ireland
would receive these measure in the same spirit as they had
been proposed by the Government.—( Hear, hear.) It was
his good fortune, in conjunction with the Noble Lord opposite
(Lord Stanley) to introduce a Bill for the Promotion of Pub-
, lic Works in Ireland. That Bill gave equal satisfaction to
the public and its friends, because the benefits which had, by
its operation been extending throughout Ireland, had greatly
exceeded the anticipations of those by whom the measure had
been recommended.—( Hear, hear.) The first proposition
made to Parliament was considered by many as an ex-
perimental measure. They created four or five boards, with
another in which all power was vested, to consolidate the whole
of the departments. 'I hat board was entrusted with the super-
vision of the whole, and he (Lord Monteagle) believed that its
success was mainly owing to the spirit, the skill, and the un-
questionable integrity of his Gallant Friend Sir John Bur-
goyne. There had been no loss sustained by the public worth
speaking of, because they had gained by the interest paid by in-
dividuals in loans, more than they expended in the same manner.
But what had they been doing in the course of the ten, or
rather the sixteen years, which bad intervened since the passing
,of that Act. Such had been the confidence maintained by the
Board of Public Works in the public mind, that the Govern-
ment had thrown vastly increased labours upon them. They
had cast upon them every duty in Ireland which they did not
know how otherwise to get rid of. If they tried any
great system of drainage, the Board of Public Works,
were saddled with it. If they found a harbour mismana god
they transferred its regulation from the local authorities to
the Board of Public Works. The management of Maynooth
was thrown on that Board, and the alterations in the present
Bill were also to be carried into execution by them. The fact
was, they were overweighing the willing horse, and destroying
the efficiency of an admirable Board. They had lost his
Gallant Friend in whom they had had so much confidence, still
it was their duty to make up for the deficiency. They ought
to take instant steps to give efficiency to the Board of Works,
and nothing was so important in that direction as employing
competent engineers, and men of science, who might devise
improvements, by which a great addition would be made to the
employment of the people. This was particularly important
in the present emergency; and he further entreated the
Noble Lord not to rest satisfied with the present Bill, or with
the pi esent money vote, but to bring forward other measures
adapted to meet the present state of Ireland.
The Duke of. RICHMOND supported the present Bill, and
said he would not only be happy to vote for it, but for any mea-
sure the House of Commons might send up to give employ-
ment, and calculated to improve the condition of Ireland.
The Bill was then read a third time.
THE GAME LAWS.

Lord DACRE rose to move the second reading of the
Game Law Bill, and in doing so, said he would proceed to re-
view the laws that had hitherto been in operation relative to
game. In taking a retrospect of those laws for the last thirty
years, he regretted the manner in which the condition of the
lower orders, particularly those of the agricultural body, had
been affected. In 1816 a committee had sat upon this question,
when the absurdity and inconsistency of the game-laws then in
operation were fully shown. A committee of the other House,
which sat in 1816, entered into a careful investigation of the
law at that period. They examined with great minuteness the
decisions of various ju,:ges, particularly the decision of Chief
Justice Holt, particularly the case of Sutton v. Moody, in
which it was held that game belonged to the owner of the
land. He (Lord Daces) brought in a Bill into the other House
in 1819, which was in accordance with that decision—
namely, that game belonged to the owner of the soil,
which, however, was not passed ; but since that period
nothing had occurred to alter this opinion. The Ist
and 2d of William IV., on this subject, was an identi-
cal transcript of the Bill which he lost in the Commons in
1819, and it would have served all the objects contemplated,
had the Bill been retained—the principle that the possession of
land gave the property in game. This Bill, however, intro-
duced a fiscal regulation, which authorised the granting of
lieenses for the sale of game, and which rendered the licensed
dealer liable to penalties if he purchased from a person who
was not liable to sell. The qualification, however, to sell de-
pending on fiscal regulation laid the law open to several
abuses, and the Bill he now proposed would be far more
strigent, in so far as it would prevent the poacher from having
any intercourse with the licensed dealer. Therefore the
licensed dealers should be liable to the same punishment for
having in their possession game without having entered the
quantity and the person from whom it was purchased. That
Bill substituted fiscal licenses for a real property in the game
which was generally adopted in France; that would be the
chief regulation. That interference with licensed dealers in
gams it was necessary to maks, for it was important to know

from whom the game was obtafned, for if not from a person in
possession of land, it might be fairly concluded that
it had been obtained illegally. The principal object
of the Bill was to cut off all intercourse between
the poacher and the licensed dealer in game;
and to render it dangerous to the letter, if he should
purchase from any one not qualified by having in his possession
a certain quantity of land. He was far from wishing to make
any stringent regulations, and he would not say that ten or fif-
teen acres were not sufficient for a person to rear a considerable
quantity of game. But he would have the purchaser enter in
a book the quantity of game, and from whom purchased. That
was one of the principal objects in the Bill, which presented
itself to his mind, for the protection of game without being in•
jurious to the liberty of any class. He would also propose to
examine any applications from the occupier of lard, com-
plaining of the injuries from game possessed by any neighbour-
ing occupier, and to consider to what extent he had suffered
from the game possessed in neighbouring preserves. He pro-
posed that the magistrates should in a word have
the power of appointing surveyors, to examine where
the game had injured any neighbouring lands, —( Hear. )
These were the principal points of the Bill which Le had to
submit to their Lordships' attention, and as it was merely an
amendment of the Act of the Ist and 2d of William IV., and
placed game under a better regulation than it had hitherto been
put, he entertained a very sanguine expectation of obtaining
their Lordships' assent. His principal object was to raise diffi-
culties of communication between the poacher and the licensed
dealer. It enabled the rightful proprietor of game to preserve
his property, and gave him rights of remedy against those par-
ties who preserved game to a greater extent than the support
which their land could provide. It was an improvement on the
protection given by the Act of the Ist and 2d William IV., and
that being the full extent of his amendment, he would confine
himself to the moving of the second reading of the Bill
before the House, and begging their Lordships' best attention to
its provisions.
Lord CAMOYS entertained very strong objections to the
whole of the clauses of this Bill. He thought it was ex-
tremely improper at this time to make the game-laws more
stringent than they already were. As the law at present stood,
a certificate was required to sell game, which in his opinion
was sufficient restriction. He had objections to several other
clauses, and he thought that it would have been better, in
coincidence with the opinions of many other persons, that a re-
mission, rather than an extension of these restrictions, should
be made. But he still more objected .o the provisions of the
7th clause, and thought that any recompense obtained from a
neighbouring proprietor would occasion much heart-burning
and mischief. He also objected to the 9th clause, which re-
pealed that portion of the section of the sth and 6th Vic.,
which provided that half the penalties in convictions under
that Bill should go to the informer. On the whole he consi-
dered the Bill was far too stringent, and afforded no increased
facilities to check poaching.
Lord BROUGHAM admitted that the law did require
some revision. He considered, however, that the greatest
caution was necessary in making any alterations in the exist-
ing laws.
The Duke of RICHMOND considered it advisable for their
Lordships to go into Committee on the subject, and they might
be able to suggest such alterations as were required. He was
of opinion that it was a subject which superinduced loose and
dissolute habits among young men, and tended very much to
produce demoralization among a large class of the community.
With regard to the reports which had been of late circulated
in the newspapers, that he (the Duke of Richmond) had paid
a large sum for damages done by game, he had to say that
the report was quite unfounded, for he had never paid any
damages of the sort ; so far from his encouraging game, he
destroyed all the hares and rabbits which he could find on his
own lands, as he considered them as nothing but mere vermin,
which were as injurious to the landowner as they were to the
farmers. As such a rumour, however, had been repeated in
many newspapers, he would give it a most unqualified denial,
for he had destroyed game long before the celebrated Tam-
worth decree.

Lord H ATHERTON expressed his concurrence in the ob-
servations made by the Noble Duke who had just sat down, in
reference to the destruction of game. He had exterminated
an immense quantity of game on his own property, and he
could not exaggerate the satisfaction which it gave him, to see
his estates almost exempt from their depredations. Such a
result was beneficial alike to the tenants and farmers.
Lord ASHBURTON said that the observations which had
been made by his Noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond) were
entitled to the greatest possible respect. This subject had
deservedly occupied much time in public discussion, and it
had also occupied a prominent place in the public prints. He
concurred with all that had been said by his Noble Friend ;
the animals alluded to by the Noble Duke were indeed nothing
but vermin. He would recommend that when their Lord-
ships went into Committee on this Bill they should take
" hares" entirely out of the class of game.—(Cheers.) He
was quite persuaded that if their Lordships did so they would
in the simplest manner possible get rid of all the unfounded
complaints that had hitherto been made.— ( Hear, hear.) He
would venture to trouble their Lordships with an instance of
the unjust operation of the present game-laws : A poor man
who had a garden near Southampton, which he cultivated as a
sort of market-garden, found last year, when he was about to
reap his expected harvest, that a quantity of rabbits had entered
into his garden arid totally destroyed his crop. He was de-
termined to put an end to this sort of destruction, and he
accordingly set a trap. It was discovered shortly afterwards
that he had ensnared a rabbit; he was taken before the magis-
trates of the district on a charge of entrapping game, and
eventually fined in a large sum and costs. Now that he con-
sidered to be a most unjust case, because it was evident that the
only object which he had in view in laying the snares was the
protection of his property.--( Hear, hear.) He should, with
their Lordships' pleasure, when the Bill went into Committee,
propose a clause to exclude hares from the list of game.—
(Hear, hear. )
The Bill was then read a second time, arid ordered to be
committed on Monday next.
Their Lordships then adjourned.