The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-23 00:00:00

SUGAR DUTIES.

Mr. PARKER brought in the Sugar Duties Contin-
uance Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be
read a second time to-morrow.
SABBATH TRADING.

Mr. HINDLEY then rose to ask leave to introdcce a Bill
to amend the law with respect to Sunday trading, when
An HON. MEMBER. remarked that there were not forty
Members present.
On the House being counted there were not twenty Mem-
bers, and the Speaker adjourned the House till to-morrow.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.
("YESTERDAY)

HOUSE 0-F LORDS.

Room A.
Th• members of this Committee re-assembled this day at eleven
o'clock.

C ORNWALL.

Lord Vivian was examined on the part of the opponents of the
Bill, and stated that he considered the line was, though insufficient
for the general traffic of Cornwall, so far advantageous as to pre-
clude the construction of a central line. He considered, also, that
the levels of the proposed line • were too low to render it easy to
form a connexion with ether lines ; and was decidedly of opinion
that the central line would be more beneficial to the country, and
its levels were better. _

Mr. Williams, whose examination was commenced yesterday, WaS
Austell tin and
examined, and stated that the produce of t
passed.
Newlyn district.
amounted to 114,2501..
while
theproducet Central line, amounted
copper mines, in the district through which
through which it was proposed to carry
on the side of the latter, too.
this advantage
to 141,2921. :There anus
white the former was declining.
that it was a ristrigid=
*mined by Mr. Sergeant KINGEAXE. and
Thls.whiness A#olo C
to, the passenger traffic between St. Austell and
.tlottehteCo:rutN.wetline
stated, with respect
Darned
,an by-vans, that these vans were used Oddly
Truro: Arbraie—
by, one et..,4 low class. On being asked by the Learned Ser-
geant as to whether he had ever used this mode of conveyance, he
replied. " that he had never travelled this way himself, though he
believed harristers had."—(Considerable laughter.)
After hearing some further evidence in detail, Mr. Avery, mer-
chant, of Boscastle, aas examined by Mr. ROWE, and stated that he
did not believo that there was 40,0001. worth of property sent into
Cornwall during any one year. There was a traffic carried on be-
itween Bristol and Hull, but it was very inconsiderable. In his opi-
nion there was not sufficient traffic to support a line from Plymouth
to Falmouth.

Some tbrther evidence was then given, after which the Committee
adjourned. ,

Room B.
LEXCESTMR. AND BEDFORD.

This Committee met to-day at eleven o'clock.
Some more evidence having been given in opposition to the lino,
to the effect that there was not sufficient traffic to support the railway,
Mr. HIDLYARD addressed the Committee on the part of the oppo-
nents to the Bill, contending that the present ought to have been
the undertaking of the Midland Company, and not of an independent
company, which would alone render it a profitable speculation. -Us
also contended that the circumstance of Northampton not being pro-
vided with accoMmodation by the proposed line was of itself suf-
ficient to disentitle the Bill to the favourable consideratioa of the
Committee.

Sergeant WRANGIIAM replied, and the Committee decided that the
preamble of the Bill was not proved.

Room C.

BLACEVIALL RAILWAY (WIDENING).
The Committee re-assembled this morning, Lord Hatherton In HI
chair.
The first witness called was _ _ _

Mr. John Duncan, solicitor of the Eastern Counties Company, who
was examined at considerable length as to the contents of draft
of arrangement which had been entered into between the ELSICTI3
Counties Company and the Blackwell Company, which he stated
had nothing whatever to do with the arrangement of traffic. The
term " facilities " in that agreement had reference, in his opinion, tc;
the right to be conceded to either Company of passing over the lint
of the other Company. On this point Mr. Duncan underwent a
bang examination, but nothing contrary to the facts adduced was
elicited.

Mr. Durant, an extensive silk-broker in the City, stated that the
diminishing of the light in the silk warehouses would present a
formidable impediment to the carrying on of the silk business.
Mr. Bidder, engineer of the Eastern Counties Railway, stated that
he did not conceive that the short traffic to be obtained by a junction
of this line with the Blackwell ltailway would be of any ad-
♦antage, for, in the calculation of that advantage, the
Directors had altogether overlooked the competition of the °mai.
buses, which, for short stages, were decidedly the most convenient ;
as a proof of this it had been estimated that there would be RS many
as 1.800,000 passengers from the station at East Ham, while
he did not believe that the whole of the passengers carried
was 50,000 per annum. In the statement to Parliament
there was a computation that 4,800,000 passengers would be
carried by the Blackwell line, and on those they had
calculated a fare of sixpence each. lie believed that it was only
' in consequence of the arrangement with the steam-boats that they
got any passengers worthy of consideration. If they had lowered
their fares a penny a passenger, they would have had no reason is
make the extension to Fenchurch-street from the Binories. He wee
certainly the engineer for the Company, and under his advice.
though not by his suggestion, the money had been expended. Ha
conceived that there would be great difficulty and danger in the con-
duct of these short trains, especially at Bow, where accidents have
already occurred at that spot. There were alroad.v twenty
.„-five
frame
in and out of the Shoreditch station at the present ,
uwwerese
gsuivfnecgrielelltyerdainicic9nunalt toodandoaanagtee.o.7 sa. and jr;; s;

long paesengerS it was net worth while, r.s the ell-tanee from
the suburban to the City terminus was so small. He had ad-
vised the arrangement with the Blackvrall Company, whereby
there was to be a mutual use of the proposed connexion between
St etttb, d am! Steptity, because he v the iiisekwall desired it,
ant the arrangement would hinder strite, and the latter j
Co.npany would never attempt to make the line at All.
They had not yet, in fact, put a single. spade into
the ground. In his opiniou, by his opposition to this
scheme he conceived that he was doing the best possible service to
the proprietors of that company by preventing the outlay of a great
expense, for which tot a single shilling would be returned. He
belic7ed that unless the fares were reduced far below those of the
omnibuses they would get no passengers at all, The are
at present from Tottenham was Bd., 6.1., and 4d. for the classes
respectively, aid if the estimate of the passenge-1,70,000—a fare
of 4d. would be necessary to give a gross return of 12,00001. a year.
In fact, it was a matter of rate of fare, and he did not conceive that
It would ever be in the power of the Blackwell Cempany to make
It a remunerating line ; and certainly the station in Fenchurch-
street was quite Inadequate for the traffic anticipated.
Mr. Knight, superintendent of the warehouses of the East and
West India Dock Company, stated that the warehouses of the East
India Company had been purchased oa the expiration of their char-
ter. Those warehonses in London were bonded warehouses. A
small portion of those warehouses had been taken on the extension
of the Blackwell line from the Minories to Fenchurch-street. Some
promise had been made on that occasion of conveying the goods of
the Company, but it had not been kept, and only samples were sent,
arid the goods from the docks at Poplar were now carted for the sake
oonvenience. This evidence was going on, when
Mr. ADasts, on the part of the promoters, proffered an arrange-
ment to confine themselves to the taking a certain amount of pro-
perty, and to pay for any difference of loss ; but it was rejected en
the ground that no money would pay for the loss.
Mr. Knight's examination was resumed. He stated that the light
wout.d be much hindered.

...,....
At this point, the room was cleared, and on the re-admission of
the counsel and parties,
Lord lixritzuTos stated, that the Committee had talked the
matter over, and, without expressing any decision on the general
questioa, they would suggest that the opponents should retire, and
come to some agreement with respect to the station. They were
euiliciently acquainted with this point.

Mr. Foltsrin objected, and said no arrangement would suit his
clients.

Mr. ADAM!, on behalf of the promoters, said that they were ready
to do anything in reason, and would either leave it to the decision of
any competent professional man, or to one of their Lordships.
After some conversation between Mr. Forsyth and Mr. Freshfleld,
his client, the former stated that their only object was
to obtain equal accommodation and equal space, and obtaining
these they were quite ready to come to an accommodation. They
proposed to the Blackwall Company nut to take their warehouses
without conveying certain property not in their possession, but which
they might possibly get either by private negotiation or a Bill next
year.
To this Mr. Adams objected, and the parties retired to negotiate.
it having been agreed with their Lordships that they should
appear again in a quarter of an hour, but three quarters elapsed be-
form-entering the room, and then another quarter elapsed before
any statement was made, after which
Mr. Waxman stated that an arrangement had been entered into,
by which only a portion of the property of the Do-k Company would
be taken. and the only question was about the introduction of a clause.
On Lord HATLIEB.TON'S intimation that he conceived that an
agreement was quite sufficien—:he was a party to several himself—
that was definitely decided upon.
Mr. The, who is a director of the Globe Insurance Office, having
spoken on that point,
The preamble was then allowed to be proved, the clauses were
gone through, and the report was ordered to be brought up.

Room D.

GLASGOW, DUMFRIES, AND CARLISLE.

On the assembling of the Committee to-day at 11 o'clock,

Mr. COCKBURN said, that after the unexpected decision which the
Committee had come to yesterday—a decision which had taken his
clients somewhat by
.s.tuxise-i-As had an application to naake,;s2-was.
that the Committee adjourn for the day, in order to allow him time
to prepare the evidence he would have to offer on the points in the
case of the promoters that were now open to him to dispute.
Mr. ANDREWS protested against granting the application, as most
unusual, and inconvenient to the promoters of the Bill. All the wit-
nesses against the Bill were in town, and there could be no difficulty
in his Learned Friend going into his case at once, as he must have
been ready beforehand to go into that portion of the case if necessary.
Mr. Cocaacax said, that the question of competition being shut
cut by the decision yesterday—a point on which the opponents of the
Bill would have been prepared to show a strong case—the other
points reserved for investigation hart come rather suddenly Upon
them. If the_ Committee would adjourn till to-morrow, he pledged
himself that his case would be closed within the two days, that was
by Friday evening.
After some further conversation, the room was cleared.
on our re-admission,

The CHAIRMAN said that they were willing to grant the adjourn-
ment sought for, on the distinct understanding that the Learned
Gentleman (31r. Cockburn) would condense his case into the two

COckhurn and Mr. Sergeant Murphy, on behalf of the other
petitioner against the Bill, pledged them elves to this course. •
Mr. Blythe, civil engineer, having supplied the opponents of the
Bill with some &tails respecting the estimates which they r.quircd,
the Committee adjourned till to-morrow, at eleven o'clock.

Room E.

ZZ.ETETL, YEOVIL, AND DORCUZSTER.
LONDON, SAXASBUItY, AND YEOVIL.

The Committee appointed to inquire into the merits cf these lines
met this morning for the first time. The members of the Committee
were Lord Beaumont (chairman), Lords Dartmouth, Itaufurley, Car-
rington, and I)elawarr.
The preliminary proceedings having been arran•ed,
Mr. COCKBURN proceeded to open the case on behalf of the pro-
moters. . _

An objection was taken, at an early stage of the proceedings, by
Mr. Talbot, against the course proposed to be adopted by the pro-
moters of taking the three Bills together. the Committee, however,
overruled the objection, intimating, at the same time, that the
interests of the parties opposing the Bill would not be prejudiced iu
the Minds of the Committee by the adoption of such a course.
The Learned COUNSEL then proceeded at considerable length
to paint out to the Committee the course of the proposed
lines, and commencing at Exeter. He said that the station at that
town was the most convenient for the interests of the town which
could possibly be made. Leaving Exeter, the line proceeded to
Honiton, and thence proceeded through Axminster to Yeovil. The
total length of the line between Exeter and Yeovil was 47 miles 49
chains, and the estimate for that portion would be about one million.
Ti e attention of the Committee was next directed to the de-
cision of the Committee of the House of Commons, upon the merits
of the line, upon the ease of the property of Lord Digby, Sir W.
Oglander, and others. The total saving of distance between
London and Exeter would be betweer 24 and 25 miles. The scheme
originally comprised three different junctions, but they were now
Ins. el into one, and the South-Western Company had guaranteed a
dividend of tour-and-a-half per cent. upon the whole capital sub-
scribed. which was raised principally by local subscrip-
tions. The great objects of the scheme were not so much
for the purpose of affording accommodation to the northern
traffic as for giving the means of a direct and speedy
connexion between the metropolis and Exeter, and also to the
counties of Devon and Cornwall ; this object would have been frus-
trated, if the line proposed by the Exeter Great Western Company
had been sanctioned. The effect of sanctioning that measure would
be to deetroy the through communication, because the district between
Exeter and Yeovil would be laid down upon the broad gauge system.
The Committee of the House of Commons, taking this matter into
their consideration, had considered It necessary to introduce into the
Bill a clause making it imperative on the company, should
the Board of Trade think flt, to lay down upon
their narrow gauge line additional rails to snit the broad gauge ; by
such means the interests of the Great Western Company would be
protected, and the line between Exeter and London would be pre-
served in its integrity. It was necessary for the interests of the
country through which the line passed, and with a vies of effecting
a more speedy communication between the metropolis and Easler,.
that the line should be !Sri they hands of an independent company,
end not in the hands of those whose interests it would
be to carry the traffic along their more circuitous line.
If the present line were sanctioned by their Lordships, and left in
the hands of an independent company, the salutary effect of hn
posing a check upoa monopoly would be felt by all the parties in-
terested in railway accommodation In the districts through which
the line passed. The present line being on the narrow gauge,
it would afford the means of continuous communication between
the ports of Dover, Sheerness, Southampton, and all the country on
the east part of England, with Exeter and the western counties of En-
gland. With reference to London, they would have three distinct sta-
tions, they would have a station, which was at present in existence at
Nine Elms, for the convenience of that portion of the metropolis ; there
would be another station at the York-road, Lambeth, which'had re-
ceived the sanction of the Legislature, and would shortly be com-
pleted ; and there would also be another station at London-bridge,
should the Legislature sanction that extension. The Royal Com-
mission had reported favourably of that extension, and a Committee
of the House of Commons was now sitting on the merits of the Bill,
and he had no doubt whatever but the scheme would receive the
unction of the Legislature. With reference to the opposition on the
part of landowners, there was none of any nature sufficient to justify
the rejection of the measure ; and he did not think that his Learned
Friend who represented the Interests of the Great Western Company
could have any locus standi bef ,re the Committee. In conclusiun, he
called upon the Committee to sanction the present line. He would
proceed to call evidence which their Lordships would see would fully
corroborate the statements he had made.

Mr. Salter, brewer, of Exeter, was then called, and examined by
Mr. MEREWETIIER, who stated that he consumed large quantities of
malt ; he purchased his barley principally at Salisbury, and if the
present line was constructed it would afford him great facilities for
obtaining it from thjse places.

After some further evidence, the Committee adjourned tlll eleven
o'clock to-morrow.

Kowa F.

This room first became a Lords' Committee-room this morning.
It 15 in fact Room 34 (Grand Corridor). The two next rooms (33
artd 32) have also been adopted as Lords' Committee•roome, under
the names of Rooms G and li.

NtrIibtrNGUAM:AN D OXFORD JUNCTION-

AND 8111LEL7RICIIES.
A Select Committee on these Bills met to-day, at eleven, in the
above room. The Members ate, Lord Ripon (chairman), and Lords
Sondes, Eldon, Wynford, and Montfort.
. . _ _

Mr. Cockburn, Mr. Talbot, Mr. Whetsly, and Mr. Crimes appeared
for the promoters of the Bill. Mr. Austin, Mr. Merrewetner, and Mr.
Mellon, appeared as counsel for some, and Messrs. J. Parker and Co.
and Mr. Carter, Parliamentary agents, appeared for others, of the
following petitioners :—The Warwickshire and London lines (the
Competing scheme, which was rejected In the Commons' Committee,
Group 33, during this session); the London and Birmingham line;
the Birmingham and Gloucester line ; the Warwick and Birmingham
Canal ; the Marquis of Hertford (on two petitions), the Earl of War-
wick, the Earl of Abergavenny, Mr. Wyse, Mr. Greswolde, certain
oernere and occupiers, &c. &c.
Mr. num r opened the case for the promoters of the 13111. The
Learned Counsel, with Great minuteness, went over the history of the
scheme, and of the proceedings with reference to this and
=competing L. hems in the Hones of Commons. The
ed CoanseN also dwelt at some length upon the nature
and objects of the several petitions against the Bill.
The London and Birmingham Company petitioned on
the ground that by a junction with them at Birmingham, they would
Injure their property. and endanger the lives of passengers. Now
the junction was to be made in Purenance of an agreement be-
tween the promoters of this Bill (the Great W
estera and
the' Grand Junction Company, before the amalgamation or thiT4ttee
with the London and Birmingham Company, and whieti they
(the Grand Junction) had called on the promoters to nenl, slues that
amalgamation. lie thought their Lordships would agree with him
when he said that it was highly unfair, that while the junior parties
in a firm were insisting on compliance with a contract,
the senior parties should make it a ground of opposition.
The remaining part of the Learned Counsel's speech referred prin-
cipally to the question of the propriety, or rather necessity, of a
System of.railways through this district, independent oe and to some
extent competing with, the Loudon and Birmingham line; the aegje-
lnents on this point have teen given at such length in the columns
of The Sun during the proceedings in the Committee of the Com-
mons on Group 33, that it is unnecessary to reiterate them here.
Mr. W. Matthews, a magistrate in Warwickshire, and
member of the Corporation of Birmingham, gave evidence as to the
necessity of a line through this district, independent of the London
and Birtninghasn. This witness's evidence was confined to the
necessity for its being distinct from the London and Birmingham
Company, as their Lordships had expressed their opinion that the
necessity for better communication, being admitted on both sides,
was not a matter requiring proof.
Mr. Shaw, a magistrate at Birmingham, and manufacturer and
merchant. then gave similar evidence.
Mr. Muntz, M.P., and Mr. Philip Muntz. his brother, gave evi-
dence similar to that given by them before the Committee of the
House of Commons, which w;11 be fresh in the minds of most of our
readers. It was in corroboration of that of the previous witn, saes.
Evidence was given by each witness to the effect that the tolls on
the London and Birmingham were excessively high, and must be
mush reduced by competition.
Mr. Spooner, M.P. for Birmingham, gave similar evidence.
Mr. TALBOT said. on the conclusion of this witness's evidence, that
he wished to call a Noble Lord who was now in the cha'r in another
Committee—he meant Lord Hatherton.
The CHAIRMAN—Then you must dispense with his evidence.
Mr. TALBOT—No, Sir. I had the honour last year to examine a
.Volde Chairman, who adjourned his CoMmittee for five minutes while
Ile went to give evidence, and I hare now sent a messenger to re-
quest his Lordship to do the same.
The CHAIRMAN suggested that they should hear some other evi-
dence be the meantime. This was assented to, and
Mr. Aston, a button-mtker, of Birtuingbain, gave similar evidence
to that of the former witnesses.
Lord Hathertoe, on his arrival, gave evidence very strongly in
favour of the line. his Lordship, it will be remembered. gave evi-
dence before the Committee of the House of Comm )111. His state-
ment now was precisely similar to that published in The Sun at the
thne• His Lordship was cross-examined by Mr. Mellor on the part
of the opponents ot the Bill.
Lord Villiers also gave evidence in favour of the line, and was
Cross-examined by Mr. ALEXANDER, on the part of Mr. Wyse and
cf Dr. Jephson, who petitioned on the ground of residential damage.
Mr. Thomas Barker, of Lymington, gave similar evidence.
The Committee then rose at about half past tour, and adjourned
till to-morrow.

Room G.
XiAST3IIO7 couvirrima (cnizzNarscs AND
CEZZINABZ BRANCH).
_ _._-

no-pygitiiWici
lazei cn Lauer*
ult• ore eieran,doinskE,
/ Pot, :'swing mboeaf,\ tWj
xlmalneas, ILI to-FerritiM

ithe first time to-day, the Earl of Devon
:mhers present—the Duke of Leedi, the
lib
Craven. Lord Einnaird, the reineining
mmibtee adjcarued, without doing any
4 yen o'clock.

V• t
" :-'-:.-,-_
-,S, ,---.5"--'l, J -
c Us co_mmustos,,et,r.
-.•!M
-:,,,,---x-r_ .. tRt ,-..--:f

toom U.
for the stet time, Lord Stratford in

t.l ft II

- -
the chair ; other members of the Committee present -Lord De Lisle.
Lord ,trangtord, Lord Gamey% and Earl Porris.