The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-31 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, JULY 31, 1848.

ELECTION COMMITTEES.
(SATURRDAY•)
DUBLIN.

The scrutiny into the validity of Mr. Reynolds' majo-
rity was resumed, but the petitioners did not succeed in
striking off any additional votes to-day.

NORTH CHESHIRE.

The evidence in favour of the case for the sitting
Member having closed,

Mr. MEREWETHER was heard at some length in
summing it up, after which the Committee adjourned till
Monday, at twelve o'clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 29.
THE STATE OF IRELAND - ADJOURNED
DEBATE.

(Continued from our Afternoon E3ition of Saturday.)'
Mr. P. SCROPE trusted that the English people and
the English Parliament would at length think seriously
of the state of Ireland. He believed that the social
grievances of Ireland were at the bottom of the
dreadful movement that was now taking place there, and
that it behoved the Government to make the strictest
inquiry into the subject. The prophecies of Dr. Doyle
were being fulfilled, and the evils of not following his
advice were being made apparent every day. That
high-minded individual he believed died of a broken
heart, because his warning had not been attended to.—
(Hear, hear.) The land question, he believed, operated
as the most cruel grievance upon the people of Ireland,
and unless the Legislature set to work thoroughly to
eradicate that grievance, they would never be able to put
down the incipientinsurrection that was threatened in Ire-
land. The cry in Ireland was " Ireland for the Irish," the
meaning of which was that Ireland should exist for the
Irish, and that the produce of the land should be applied
for the benefit of the Irish people. No one could doubt
the evils of the law as it at present existed in
Ireland, where the clearance of estates was so much
in the power of the landlords. lie believed that if some-
thing was done upon this subject the extent of disaffec-
tion would be greatly diminished. The Irish people
called upon Parliament to interfere with respect to the
present clearance system by the introduction of a
Landlord and Tenant Bill, or by some other measure
which was calculated to prevent the consequences to
which it gave rise. He contended that tenants were
entitled to the same protection of the law—to demand
compensation for the capital they had invested in their
tenant-right—as landlords were to claim the money they
had sunk in purchasing the fee simple of their property.
And if they introduced that principle into a Landlord
and Tenant Bill, and gave compensation for the money
he had laid out on the land, the evils attending the pre-
sent system would be got rid of. He did not propose to
bring forward any plan of his own of an original charac-
ter, but he submitted that the solution of the problem
could be easily discovered, by a consideration of the au-
thorities contained in Earl Devon's report. At present
farmers in Ireland preferred placing their capital in the
savings' banks to investing it in anyway in which the
prospect of a return was not so certain. If, therefore
Parliament passed some measure to enable those people
to invest their capital so as to be productive, and gave
them some guarantee of a return, they would find that
Ireland had sufficient capital of its own.
Sir G. GREY said—ln all the speeches which had
been delivered in the course of the debate he was asto-
nished to see that a want of union existed as to the
adoption of any practical remedy for the evils of Ireland.
The Hon. Member (Mr. Osborne) had no right whatever
to taunt the Government with bringing forward coercive
measures for Ireland, because they were indispensably
necessary for the maintenance of law and order, and
for the safety of the lives of all loyal disposed persons
in that country.—(Hear, hear.) He readily admitted
that there were many political measures required for
Ireland, but he was prepared to deny that this was the
most advantageous time fOr agitating the question now
before the House, because if it were persisted in it could
not lead to a successful termination. He, however,
begged to say that he for one would hail the arrival of
that time when some maturely-considered measure was
introduced into the House for remedying the
evils of Ireland, and whether in office or out of
office he should concur in that measure if it was calculated
to accomplish the object. The Hon. Member (Mr.
Osborne) had recommended an universal system of
colonization, but the results of such a system were very
slow and gradual, and although now carried on to a
great extent the effects of it were scarcely per..
ceptible. Having stated that the Government
were prevented bringing forward any measures
for Ireland from the peculiar circumstances which
now existed, he had no wish to go into detail as to the
censure which had been cast upon the Government
for postponing them. The reason he had given might
be unsatisfactory, and he did not mean to say that the
Government were altogether blameless, and that some
degree of censure might not be applied to them. All
the Hon. Members who had spoken had recommended
that something should be done, but no one had brought
forward any specific plan. The Hon. Baronet then re-
ferred to measures which had been alluded to for reco-

vering waste lands and for amending the law. with
respect to the rights of landlords and tenants.
He believed that many of the evils of Ireland arose from
the nature of the relations of land ; and he considered
that many of them could not be removed by legislation,
but by private individuals acting in their own localities.
With respect to evictions, the extent to which the
practice had been carried he deeply regretted, and he
believed the Government had gone as far as they reason-
ably could. A Bill had been sent up from this to the
House of Lords which would still more secure the rights
of the tenants, and prevent the landlords from taking an
endue advant.ge of Am.
Mr. SCROI-E,plained that what be meant was
that evicted tenkints should be entitled to receive com-

pulsation for being deprived of their dwellings.
Sir G. GREY: said the object of the Government in
introducing th—t,Bill was to prevent persons from being
turned out of thqir homes, and being compelled to sleep
under hedges.—(Hear.) The small subdivision of the
land in Ireland produced much of the poverty that existed
in Ireland, and considered that capitalists in that
country v, ould do a vast amount of good if they took
larger farms
.and employed persons at weekly wages.
He wished Irish Members would act more in unison with
respect to Irish measures. The accounts he had received
from Ireland during the last few days with respect to the
potato crop were more favourable than those previously
received.—(Hear.) He hoped that no sudden panic
would occur on the matter which would lead the people
.
to despair, because there was every reason to believe
that the crop would be a good one, although the disease
had in some parts made its appearance.—(Divide.)
Colonel D. UNNE adverted to some of the measures
alluded to in the course of the debate. Time should be
given for the consideration of the grand jury laws. A
more important subject than that of the fisheries
of Ireland could not come before the House, and he
trusted it would receive early and most attentive consi •
duration. He regretted that the Franchise Bill had been
postponed. The Polling Places Bill was not of much
consequence. The promotion of emigration was most
important. Little could be done in respect to railways
this session. If the Irish Members did not act in unison,
did not the English Members entertain differences of
opinion, and did not a difference of opinion exist upon
almost all subjects?—(Hear.) No body of men could
have more strongly expressed their views with respect to
a poor-law suitable for Ireland than the Irish Members
who objected to the present measure. He trusted the
Government would assure the House that a Bill on
enlightened principles would be brought in at the earliest
possible period. He read a letter from Mullingar,
stating that the present law was destroying the condi-
tion of Ireland. It was said that the law was similar
to that in force in England; but he denied that it
was so. With respect to the impending rebel-
lion in Ireland, he considered that the leading
agitators were wholly incapable of the task they had
assigned to themselves, and he thought the Government
had done well in passing a measure empowering the
Lord-Lieutenant to shut them up, so that they might
neither injure themselves or others. The Right Hon.
Baronet said that nothing could be now done until the
next session. This was, indeed, a matter for sincere
regret, when the condition of Ireland was borne in mind.
Mr. R. M. FOX read a letter from a practical
agriculturist and a magistrate in Longford, stating that
the fears with respect to the potato crop weregroundless,
and that the crops would be altogether good. The Right
Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) had challenged the Irish
Members to produce one practical measure. He in-
troduced one to improve the arterial drainage of Ireland.
In that country there were Crown lands, which yielded
but 50,000/., and which cost a great deal in their ma-
nagement; they might be sold for 250,0001., which lent
at 5 per cent. might be made the means of improving
waste lands, and thus employ 1,000,000 of people. The
Church of Ireland did far more good than injury.
Mr. CLEMENTS deprecated the course that had been
pursued by the Honourable Member for Stroud, and be-
lieved that no'inan had done more mischief towards Ire-
land than that Hon. Member. Ho had attributed to the
landlords of Ireland the whole cause of the miseries of
that unhappy country. He would give his vote, although
a reluctant one, to going into a Committee
of Supply. Although he could not support the motion
of the Hon. Member for Rochdale, nothing should pre-
vent him from doing all in his power to preserve the in-
tegrity of Ireland.
Sir D. NORREYS would vote for the measure, but at
the same time he felt bound to express his great dis-
appointment that no remedial
measures had been intro-
duced by the Government to improve the condition of
Ireland. He believed that the labour restraint might be
greatly relieved in Ireland, and that much might be done
by the Government if they would only turn their atten-
tion to it, to the employment of capital in Ireland. He
would tell the Government that any attempt to patch up
the grand jury laws would do no good. He hoped,
however, that the Government would introduce some
measure on the subject of the grand jury laws, and
thereby enable the House fully to consider the question.
At the present moment more than 41 poe cent,
.of the
population of Ireland were receiving relief, and.
he would ask whether that was a proper state of
things, and one which ought to be allowed to exist ?
He was sorry to see the Noble Lord at the head of the
Government pursuing the course he had done, because
he believed that in doing so, he was pursuing a course
that was doing
himself injustice.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE denied that the measures that
had been introduced by the Government were calculated to
deprive any part of the Irish people of their rights. He
thought that no man in that House could with truth say
that there was any indisposition ,on the part of the
House of Commons to consider the rights of the people
of Ireland. No man would bo more cautious than him-
self in depriving any party in Ireland of their
just rights. He believed that nothing would be
worse than depriving the tenants of Ulster of the good
understanding which existed between them and their
landlords. He admitted that the law with respect to
landlordhatdid
and
not tenant
agree r
w e
with
the
i r ed very
assertiongrsra t improvement,
that
it
was