The Sun.
London, England, 1848-03-03 00:00:00

ment nor the Government wished to shrink from any
responsibily which was fairly attached to either, and
when his Hon. Friend asked who was responsible, the
answer was the Goverierent, and particularly the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, were responsible for th
estimates proposed yearly to the Ilouse, and the 13oerd
of Works was responsible for duly inspecting all the
accounts. In the abstract, he should rather agree with
his Hon. Friend who had moved the amendment than
with the original motion in regard to incurrine expen
diture on the ground of giving employment, but when
the ancient Houses of Parliament were destroyed,
and it became necessary to erect a new abode, the
building should be made worthy of the high
office to which it was dedicated.—(Hear, hear )
His Hon. Friend had accused him of praising the archi-
tect; but, when a building was attacked, that seemed
the natural defence, and he had certainly referred to the
manner in which Mr. Barry bad discharged his duties,
in justification of the expenses the House had been
willing to incur. The earlier speeches of his Hon.
Friend had certainly been attacks upon Mr. Barry, but
he was glad hi sHon, Friend had now recanted, for he
would rather his attacks were concentrated upon him
(Lord Morpeth) than upon one so little deserving of
them as the architect. His Hon. Friend had not named
the eminent architects who agreed with him in his dis-
paragement of the building; but he (Lord Morpeth:
would read the opinion expressed 'by Mr. Playfair, who
had so highly distinguished himself by the buildings he
had erected in Scotland—(Hear, hear)—in a letter
which had been placed in his (Lord Morpeth's) hands.
[The Noble Lord here read the extract, which was
highly eulogistic of the architectural merits of the new
Houses of Parliament, and predicted an immortality of
fame for Mr. Barry.] His Hon. Friend had pronounced
the House of Lords a gewgaw, and many might have
preferred a simpler taste, but Mr. Barry felt that as
that was thej place where the Sovereign met the
estates of the realm, where the representatives of
Foreign Powers, and a great part of the beauty and
nobility of the country congregated on solemn occa-
sions, that a grand and imposing structure would bo
in keeping.—(dear, hear.) And every one who had
witnessed the ceremony at the close of Parliament last
session would admit that a nobler 4 grander scene than
the House of Lords on that occasion had been seldom
seen.—(Hear.) However, he had received the assurance
of Mr. Barry that on coming to that part of the edifice
appropriated more to matters of fact a more severe and
simple style should be adopted, and a profuse expense
would not be incurred. As to the disputes between Mr.
Barry and Dr. Reid, when he had felt it impossible to
bring those gentlemen to a good understanding he felt it
his duty to prevent the time of Parliament from being
frittered away, and he had insisted upon Dr. Reid put-
ting on paper all that he required to develop his plans;
and Mr. Barry then professed his readiness to carry them'
into effect. That had now been done, and he believed
all that related to the ventilation of the House of Com
mons and its appurtenances had been placed before Mr.
Barry, and that Mr. Barry had engaged to give effect to
the design. There had been some dispute relative to
the height of the tower Dr. Reid required. As that was
a point he (Lord Morpeth) was unable to decide, he
should be glad to have it referred to a more compe-
tent authority; and it would be a point that might
be investigated by the Committee now moved for. This
was not an occasion to go into the question of the fres-
coes to which his Hon. Friend had given an unduly se-
vere character, and one not warranted in the opinion of
the best judges of that branch of arts; but, as to the
supposed incongruity of those frescoes with the building,
he might refer to the Campo Santo at Pisa for one of
the most successful specimens of fresooes in Gothic ar-
chitecture. He did not wish prematurely to condemn
his Hon. Friend's proposal of a Royal Commission, and
there had been a precedent for such a course in the case
of the Windsor improvements; but it was not certain
that such a Commission would succeed in working out
the economical views of his Hon. Friend. He could not
accede to the proposition of his Hon. Friend for a Roe al
Commission, but if it were the wish of the House that
a Committee should consider the whole present state of
the building, and even the past expense, and to settle the
basis upon which it would be best to proceed fur the
future, the Government felt it their duty to accede to
that wish, and he had told his Hon. Friend the Member
for Oxford that he would support his motion. When
that Committee was appointed, it might be a legitimate
subject of inquiry by them whether the scheme of his
lion. Friend for a Royal Commission should be adopted,
or any other course that might be suggested for the
speedy and economical completion of the building.
Sir B. HALL did not think the Committee would
answer its intended object. for the Government would
be apt to screen themselves behind the report of that
Committee, and he was especially of that opinion when
he found that the Committee, had been concocted with
the concurrence of the Noble Lord. But he objected
even more to the names placed upon the Committee, for
he thought that Lord Morpeth and Lord Lincoln, the
present and into Commissioners of Woods and Forests,
and Sir R. Peel, ought rather to appear as witnesses be-
fore the Committee than sit as members. His Hon.
Friend the Secretary to the Treasury had also quite
enough to do without being engaged upon the Commit-
tee. He hoped that the Noble Lurd would press for the
completion of the work; he would find that, whatever
might be the present expense, such a course would, in
the end, prove to ho by far the most economical. He
would oppose the nomination of the Committee, and
if the motion were carried, he would object to several of
the names.

The Earl of LINCOLN deprecated the practice of
that House resolving itself into a dilettanti society, and
discussing matters of taste ; he did not think that by
such a mode of proceeding they -would arrive at any sa-
tisfactory conclusion. The proper function of the House
in a matter of this kind was to see that the money it
had voted should be properly applied. Although ho
had found that each successive Committee appointed to
inquire into matters relating to the new Houses of Par•
liament had resulted only in increasing the expenses of
that building, he would have been prepared to vote far
this Committee, in the expectation that no such conse-
quences would, in this case, follow, had it not been for
an expression of hope on the part of the Noble
Lord that the question now pending between
Mr. Barry and Dr. Reid, as to the height of the
central tower, would be referred to the proposed new
tribunal for its decision. The Noble Lord was much
more competent to pronounce an opinion on that
point than any Committee would be, and, as the respon-
sible adviser of the Crown, he would see that not a
farthing was unnecessarily expended. There might be
some advantage in acceding to the proposal of the Hon.
Member for Middlesex. The duties of the office of the
Woods and Forests had become so enormous that it was
out of the question to expect that the Noble Lord would
be able to give sufficient time to the many subjects which
demanded his attention, and it was undoubtedly desirable
that some commission should be constituted which should
have the superintendence, not only of the Houses of
Parliament, but of every other great building under-
taken by the State. They were not, however, prepared
to say to what parties they would delegate this awl°.
ity, and as the house was determined to have as efficient
a control as possible over the expenditure, the best way
would new be to grant the Committee moved for by the
Hun. Baronet, but at the same time to take care that its
attention should be confined exclusively to the future
outlay on the new buildings.—(Hear, hoar.) An inquiry
thus limited might lead to some practical recommenda-
tion; but, without such a limitation, the appointment
would be mischievous, and would only tend to still
further expense.—(Hear.)
Sir G. STRICKLAND agreed with the Noble Lord
that such a Committee, unless the bounds of the inves-
tigaiion were marked out, would be worse than useless.
He did not see why an inqairy into the state of the New
Houses of Parliament should be mixed up with an in-
quiry into the condition of Westminster-bridge. The
Committee might just as properly take evidence as to
the conservation of the Thames, or the repairs required
at Blackfriers-bridge, the stone of which was said to be
crumbling away, and endangering the whole structure.
The House might rest assured that if they empowered
the Committee to interfere with Westminster-bridge,
they would be called upon to pay a million, which was
about the cost of Waterloo- bridge, for rebuilding.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY complained that UMW. be-
yond what had been voted had already been expended
on the New Houses.
Mr. HUME also believed that the appointment of
such a Committee as that moved for would be productive
of much inconvenience and additional expense. The
great fault committed by the House in this matter had
been in failing to throw the responsibility upon some
one individual, to whom the entire control of the expen-
diture should have been entrusted. They found th it
first one person and then another had interfered; at one
time the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and again a Com-
mittee of Taste, and the result was, an enormous excess
over the original estimates. In the present state of the
finances of the country, it was the duty of the House to
take every means within their power of avoiding ex
pense, and he therefore hoped that the amendment of
his Hon. Friend would be carried.
Mr. BERNAL said it would be most ridiculous to
attempt to arrive at any conclusion in matters of taste in
that House, and he had never known any good to arise
from the discussion of such matters in a Committee.
The Committee moved for was to consider the present
state of the New Palace at Westminster, and also into the
present state ot Westminster-bridge. Here were objects
placed in juxta-position which had nothing to do with each
other. If the object of the Hon. Baronet was to have
Westminster-bridge taken down and a new one built, in
common fairness he ought to say so. At a time when
we were seeking to reduce our expenditure, it was not
fair to keep such a project in the background. They
had now arrived at such a position with regard to the
Houses of Parliament that they could not retreat. He
was ignorant of what the Hon. Baronet meant to do in
the Committee; but he thought that some department of
the Government might superintend the expenditure
which he thought no Committee of the House was com-
petent io do. The Chancellor of the Exchequer should
come forward and say—°• We will undertake the in-
quiry, not by ourselves, but we will employ and pay
competent persons to do so;" and such a proposal should
have his hearty concurrence.
Mr. R. YORKE said the finishing stroke had boon
put to the proposed Committee by what had fallen from
the Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken. He should
feel gratified if the Noble Lord would agree to the pro-
posal of the Hon. Member for Middlesex; but if the
motion for the Committee was persisted in he should
make the motion of which he had given notice, namely,
to leave out the names of Lord Morpeth, Sir R. Peel,
the Earl of Lincoln, Lord E. Bruce, Mr. Cardwell, and
Mr , Tufnell, and to insert instead the names of Mr.
Bankes, Lord H. Vane, Mr. Henley, Sir 11. Willoughby,
Mr. Langston, and Mr. Mitchell.
Sir. R. INGLIS, in reply, said the object of his
motion was the same as that of a former motion upon
this subject. The reason of the juxta-position of West-
minster-bridge and the new palace at Westminster in
the motion was their local juxta-position, which was
no fault of his. The terms were the very same as