The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
LIOUSE OF LORDS, March 6.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at
ten minutes past Five o'cl, ck.
11.1.151-1 OUTRAGES.
Lord FARNHAM presented a petition signed by the High
Sheriff and grand jury of Cavan, in favour of the Government
measure for protection to lives sod property in Ireland.
CORN-LAWS.
The Earl of CARtYARVON presented petitions from
Winchester and other places in favour of protection to agricul-
ture. He had been among the petitioners himself during the
last few days, and he could state that they were influenced by
very strong feelings on these laws. They were of opinion that
the laws affording protection should, in justice to the farmer,
be continusd, for they feel that the farmer had difficulties to
contend with different from those of any other class in so-
ciety. These difficulties were principally of a natural
kind—changeable seasons, frosts, and other casualties,
which no painstaking or intelligent cultivates could
by any foresight guard against. They had not as; quick
returns for their capital as manufacturers had, and they were
consequently desirous to have a more fixed and certain remune-
ration for their industry. hey very touch deprecated the
measure recently introduced into the other House of Parlia-
ment, which they considered as being neither in conformity
with the political sagacity of the Noble Duke, the original
policy of the Government, or the opinions of the late Secretary
of the Colonies, whom they considered as well qualified as
any other Noble Lord to decide what measures were best
calculated to be advantageous to the country.
PROTECTION OF LIFE (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM wished to make an observation on the
measure about to be introduced by the Noble Earl (St. Ger-
man?). He thought such a measure should be discussed in
Chief
the presence of his Noble and Learned Friend the Lord _
Justice. It was impossible fir the Noble and Learned
Lord
to be in town till Saturday, and he could then remain till
Monday evening.
The Earl of WICKLOW said his Noble and Learned
Friend Friend had appointed this day for the discussion of the
but now it appeared that the Lord Chief Justice would
not be in town till Monday.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought it was necessary
that the opinions of the Lord Chief Justice should be knomn on
such a measure.
Earl ST. GERMANS was in the hands of the House.
The Marquie of LANSDOWNE thought that the recom-
mittal of the Bill would enable the Lord Chief Justice to ex-
press his opinions.
The Marqnis of CLANRICARDE said he would propose
that the duration of the Bill should be limited to five years.
Indeed he thought that even that period would be too long,
and he would rather prefer that it should be for only one year.
It was a measure of a very strong character, and one the
working of which they could form no opinion of whatever.
Upon the duration of the Bill would entirely depend whether
he should form one of the Committee.
Earl GREY said it would be a great inconvenience to many
Nob'e Lords to have this measure postponed. No doubt it
would be very desirable to hare the assistance of the Lord
Chief Justice, but as that could be had in the future stages of
the Bill it would be well to proceed now, as he was desirous of
bringing on his amendments.
Earl St. GERMANS said he was quite willing to adopt
that course. He would first proceed to state the amendments
proposed by her Majesty's Government seriatim, and then
they could be discussed afterwards. One amendment he had
to propose was one suggested by a Noble Friend of his, a
Member of the other House, Lord Clements, which
was that the Act should have a retrospective effect;
that was to say, that in all ca es of districts now
under a state of proclamation the Lord Lieutenant
would have it in his power to charge the expenses incurred by
such proclamation upon that district. This would have the ef-
fect of enforcing a pecuniary penalty upon any district in a
state of disturbance. The next clause was one to limit the
duration of the Act :—" And be it enacted, that this Act
shall continue and be in force for five years from and after
the passing thereof, and to the end of the then next session of
Parliament, and may be amended or repealed by any Act to be
passed in the present session of Parliament." It was intended
also, that a petty sessions should be held in the disturbed
districts, at least once in every week. Ile would now pro-
ceed to the amendments proposed by the Lord Chief Justice.
The first of those related that no proclatnationTshould be
issued, unless the requirement to the Lord Lieutenant
were signed by three acting justices of the peace
in the county. He (Earl St. Germans) thought it would be
desirable that the whole responsibility of these proclamations
should rest ou the Executive Government. He considered
that the Executive Government should not screen itself behind
the authority of any one, and that magistrates should not be
needlessly required to place themselves in a state of considerable
personal danger. Some prevision might be inserted to remedy
the delay occasioned in the issuing of these proclamations, but
he did not conceive that any amendment to a greater extent
was necessary. He did not, propose to adopt the amendment
of the Noble and Learned Lord in this instance, or
to introduce any other in its room. The object of the
second amendment of the Noble Lord was, no doubt, to re-
medy any delay that might take place with the man who
might be charged with crime. He had, however, some diffi-
culty in adopting the amendment. The magistrates would be
placed by it in an invidious position, for the individual so
charged might be his own tenant. To meet that diffi nilty the
measure provided that a petty sessions should be held every
week at each of the disturbed districts. If the man appre-
hended gave a satisfactory account of himself he would be at
once liberated ; but if not, they would have the power of pro-
ceeding as the circumstances of the case seemed to require.
He would now come to the amendments of the Noble Lord
opposite (Cottenham). With respect to them he must say,
that so far as cases of misdemeanor were concerned, they
might be effective enough, but the case of murder was left
wholly untouched by them. He did not wish to discuss the
subject at present, but ho repeated that the Noble Lord who
had proposed this measure should have brought it in as a ge-
neral Bill. He now came to the amendment proposed by the
Noble Lord to dispense with the punishment of transportation
for the (silence of being out after nightfall. That punishment
would be the only vindication of this measure. If the measure
were considered as necessary, the question was, what was the
amount of punishment necessary to deter persons from the
commission of these offences? It was impossible that any
fixed or unalterable rule should be laid down with regard to it,
but it should he left to the Legislature to determine the pu-
nishment for each particular offence. He was able to ask with
confidence every Noble Lord in that House, who was at all
connected with Ireland, whether the punishment above all
other most dreaded by the criminals of Ireland was not trans-
portation ? and, therefore, looking at the subject as a mere
question of humanity, would it net be better to make one or
two examples ? It would produce more effect than any other
sort of punishment, if criminals were to be summarily trans-
ported, and removed at once from the dock to the transport
ship. Those who were imprisoned returned to their homes
when their term was expired without being in any way deterred
from the commission of fresh offences. In the year 1835, Mr.
O'Connell had said that there were parts of this Bill of which
he entirely approved. He thought that no person resident in
the disturbed districts should be allowed to go from his home
after nightfall without giving a sufficient reason for his ab-
sence, as by that means many offences would be prevented. It
was a calumny to say, that in giving that approval he took
away from the just liberty of the subject, for it would only
have the effect of preventing the people from committing
crimes and outrages deserving of punishment. These were the
opinions of Mr. O'Connell in regard to the disturbances in
Ireland. Ile (the Earl St. Germans) considered that unless
measures were taken to prevent parties going out at night, so
long would they be unable to prevent the occurrence of crime.
And further, he considered that unless there was a dispropor-
tion between the punishment and the crime the evil would not
be remedied. Mr. O'Connell said in 1834, that this Bill (re-
ferring to the measure then propoted) was calculated to meet
an exceeding great evil, those midnight disturbances, which
related not alone to agrarian questions, but which affected the
whole face of society. lie considered it was no infringement
of public liberty to prevent persons from going out at night
who . had no lawful business, but who rather, if permitted,
were bent on inflicting injury upon their fellows. If this re-
striction we,e judiciously carried out, it would exercise a most
salutary and beneficent influence on Ireland. Such were the
opinions of Mr. O'Connell in 1834 and 1835. The restriction
was not intended against the welhdisposed, hut against per-
sons nho were about to engage in evil practices, and which
there wan no means of retie: ing at present ; the great diffi-
culty being to get evidence against persons who Crete of
readnight outrages. To meet this difficulty the present pro-
vision was proposed. If innocent parties were taken up ender
it, they would be discharged by the magistrate ; or, if suspi-
cion was against them, they would be referred to a higher tribu-
nal, where. iffaultless, t hey would be allowed togo free ; if guilty,
then would they, and deservedly, be subjected to punishment.
His really could not believe that those Netile Lord: who wished
to withuld [nom the Judges of 1113 land the powers proposed by
the Bill, understood the state of crime in that country, which
se endangered life and properly. He held in his hand a me-
ram i-1 to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, from the magistrates
of the county of Ti:'perary. It prayed that Govern= tit mule
bri, g in a law which seculd condi:se to tbe cahey of life anti
property in Ireland. It stated that so daring had the evil dis•
posed become that the most fi ightful outrages were committed
in the broad day, without respect to name or creed. The me-
morial went on to show hoar necessary it Ives that some
stringent measure shritOrl be, brought into force to put an end to
such friehtful acts. The declaration went '.n to state that
intimidation had reached such a beielm that people in an humble
c'ass of life could not be induced to give evidence ; that it was
not to the number of crimes, but their character, the memo-
rialists directed attention; that it was not the lives of
landlords that were in danger, but the peasants' hut
was the scene of murder; and that ejectment from
land was not the cause of outrage, bat the most trivial occur-
rence wan made a cause for outrage. That document (con-
tinued the Noble Lord) was signed by Lord Dunally, a noble-
man well known in this House, a resident landlord, and one of
extremely liberal politics. indled he (Earl St. Germans)
looked upon t his measure as by no means sufficient to meet the
exigency ef the case—it would rather fall short of it ; but her
'tY's Onvernment (lid net wish to enforce any measure
of a strength beyond what was absolutely necessary. As this
was a subject of hear him SN ith great importance, he trusted the House %v,lid
Noble I..onfrdntohspatienceread while be read another document. The
a memorial from the grand jury of the
county
which was to the ear.
effect
at summer ass,zes, 1815,
the county Tipperary. fifetet as that from the magistrates of
document was signed by the
O'Conor Don, and he need not remind their Lordship that
he was not a person to exam.,a the evil. lie would read to
their Lordship, another documertitrY from the Caine county, from
jury
the High Sheriff and the grand at the last assizes. The
document was similar in submarmeto the one first read. This
was signed by a gentleman named Te
and by Mr.
Fi.zstephen French, the Member for t.t?nY"e
read these documents to show the House that gentlemencoun ty. He had
in eolitical opinions from the Government had taantheffering
view that they did, and had urged the Government to bsarme
forward a measure to give protection to life and igegeritng
y.
Their Lordships had, no doubt, been shocked, Klieg
they read of the attempt to assassinate two gentlemen, a late
Member of the other House, and one of the best landlords in
Ireland. Ile would read a letter received by him fruit the
office cf the Chef Secretary for Ireland. The Noble Lord
read the letter, which -stated that the attempt at a•sassination
had lie. n made sLithin feur miles of Lineriele, and at (even
o'clock in the cvening, when ne ethers of pernms were on the
road. The gentlemen, w'ime hers were astempleil, were Sir
David Roche an.l Sif E.L1t1:111 Was chi:; a state of
things last might longs to ?Is as alesoiuteev necessary
teamsome stringent me,sures shoull histak,"n• N°' l''ng could
be close painful to him than to mend up am! props-: any
measure, which would ten ! to ahritige the hherlies of the
peoele. Eat it was the fist duty of tine State so take stud!
ere; as might be deemed expedient for the protection of life
and property.
Lord BRO :IG;-1 A NI said, that a feellne of shame was created
when they heard that portions of their fellow country-
men were leading lives so detestable as these unhappy
victims of delusion, who thought they nod a right to rnmsacre
their landlords for making a lee fur and righteous use of their
own property. He did net mean to say one word counter to
the statements of the Noble Lord. Ile believed the different
sta.tements received from tics grand juries and lieutenants were
quite correct. They were, therefore, all ago eed that some effi-
eaimi s measure was required to repress the crime which so
awfully abounded in that unhappy country, and to make it, as
he said on a former evening, habitable—t•) make it suitable for
the residence of peaceabe s
iand yet at the same timeohi 'elates. o They might do all that,
not a measure befitted in all it optinion that it was
eessities of the case. m
ipef
pop s to meet this ne-
se ar.
IUS amend e nd-