The Sun.
London, England, 1848-05-10 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDION, WEDESDAY EVENING, MAY 10, 1848.

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ImPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ARLIAMEN T. t Mr. EWART presented a petition from Dumfries in
HOUSE OF LORDS, May 9. I favour of the Scottish Church Sites Bill.
SANITARY CONDITION OF THE METRO-
Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
POLIS—WESTMINsTEE,.
from the Locum. iee la:eight ep certain .
Messengers Sir H. Nl' ILLOUGHBY said he bad been informed
Billie
presented petitions from the that in the immediate vicinity of Westminster Abbey,
Earl FORTESCUE
d town council ot Torrington, trum Thornburg,
mayor an and, therefore, not far from the place. in. which they had
and various other places, in favour of the Jewish Disc- assembled, that a malignantd description of fever, not
bilities Removal Bill ; also several petitions from various unlike typhus,
_h_ a broken out, which was stated
lodges of Odd Fellows, praying for the legalization of to be traceable, in some degree, to the che-
their society. mical experiments that had recently been. made
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the • in the neighbourhood, in which
on the drains
Lord Provost and Corporation of Edinburgh in favour of operation too great reliance had been placed
the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. upon the process of deodorizing the poisonous discharge
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from Wishart which eliminated from the drains. He had also been
and several other places in favour of the Jewish Disabi- informed that traps had been opened into sewers in other
parts of the metropolis, which had been the means of al-
lities Removal Bill. lowing noxious vapour to escape, to the serious detriment
Lord STANLEY presented several petitions praying
of the health, if not the lives of the inhabitants of the
for the legalization of the Odd Fellows' Society.
Lord KINNAIRD presented several petitions in had said that too much reliance was
locality. He _
placed in the principle which recently obtained so much
favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF presented four petitions favour—namely, clarifying or deodorizing fasted matter•
against the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill. Why, not long ago an engineer, who was examinedd
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented several before a Committee. of the House, stated that hoe did
petitions in favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal clarify and deodorise a quantity of foul water.
.Bill;; also, a petition from Drogheda praying for some so, and the water appeared perfectly freel
alteration in the law of arrest for debt. noxious matter, but when one of the gent efmreanin
Lord LYNDHURST presented several petitions in —a Gallant ' hed to know
Admiral—drank a glass it instantly acted as
an emetic.—(Roars of laughter,) He wished
. o
on
favour of the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill.
DR. POTTS' INVENTION FOR PILE DRIVING. if the Noble Lord could give him any prey aresent 'D b
-
the subject.
The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD then presented a
petition from Dr. Potts, praying their Lordships to • ble amount
statements of his Hon. Friend. A consider& b
institute an inquiry into the merits of his invention for the . in •
Lord MORPETH replied that there wai.nsfs°ormneattir°uth in
driving piles by means of pneumatic pressure.
no sewer in the locality had been op but
of fever prevailed the precincts of thde
sAinbebee
February,
The Duke ot WELLINGTON and the Earl of AUCKLANDutas
bore testimony to the merits of the invention.
PETITIONS. bto e thedidnoisome smells had
warmno not think
state i t 0 couldfthe wit:eat
trha
ec
re.d
Ht oet that
aa td hbeuetuw informed,asowing
The Earl of EGLINTON presented severalw
to
os dae
nfiy-
of the metroolis. In the pre.
petitions in favour of the legalization of the Odd Prevailed in other. partsh
since the hot. weather had set in, that
Fellows' Society. c
ciie
nn
ct
ts.
ofHePawrlaiasmnenott
ODD FELLOWS. carried on in connexion the
drainagethefever
Lord BEAUMONT presented several petitions in oration being
oper .
favour of the Bill for the legalization of the Odd ttendant of thugs chool in West_
abelefeatroedhrtabcee .
with
Fellows' Society, dwrasaintahgee
minedthieealneaighbourhood. Dr. Mitchell, who
Several other Noble Lords having presented various 35 cesspools had been emptied in the
kind. Recently e,e -
monster, could not trace fever to a operation of the
petitions with a similar prayer, ,tie, and he was told not only that the sanitary
Lord BEAUMONT moved the second reading of the metrop,e.s,
distric's in which this had been done had
Bill. After stating the history of the ald Fellows', the 11,obfutthethat the inhabitants had expressed great
Foresters', and similar societies, which had been decided conditio
impreveed.
Hear.)
gratitud
to be illegal, as coming within the provisions of the Act Mr. BAN K.ES inquired when the Noble Lord pro-
of the 39th of George 111., cap. 76, the Noble Lord ar-
posed to introduce his Bill to improve the sanitary con
Rued at some length that, as they were purely of a chari- pdir'tion of London and Westminster.—(Hear )
table character, they ought to be put on Vie same footing Lord NIORPETH replied that he could not name a
as all those other societies which were within the pro- d,y, but thst he should introduce it as soon as his leisure
visions of the Benefit Societies Act. A: present the
and opportunities enabled him to do so.
surplus funds were invested in the names of individuals PUBLIC EXPENDI LURE.
Mr. HUME moved for returns with respect to the
as trustees, as the society could not make an investment
public expenditure in connexion with the navy and
in its own name. This was an evil which ought to be
remedied. He proposed by this Bill to render these
ordnance.
societies legal; and another object (sf the Bill would be
BRITISH MANUFACTURES.—THE DRAWING-
to provide that means should be taken to ascer i
ROOM.
the tables on which the calculations for sicknaess and
death were made were more accurate than
Ahte was
thes ssoarmre Lord G. BENTINCK rose to put a question which
to say they were at the presentditremight either be styled a protectionist or free-trade one,
eu.lties were expe
time he might state, that great but which at the present moment was one of the deepest
Fellow's calculating correct tables, not on•ly by the Odd
Fells', but by all other societies ot this nature; and importance. He need not remind the House that
he would venture to suggest that the Government should an announcement had recently gone forth of a desire on
call together three or four of the most emin t actuaries, the part of her Majesty —(Cheers)—that the ladies
such as Mr. Davis, Mr. Tidd Pratt, and others, and that who intend to be present at the drawing rooms should
they should construct a set of tables which might be appear, under the present depression of commerce and of
taken as the standard by all the societies throughout the trade, in no attire—(Roars of laughter)—except the—
country. With these observations, he begged to move (Laughter)—except that which was the produce of British
the second reading of this Bill. industry.—(Cheers.) No doubt her Majesty's heart
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he was de_ was breaking at the distress that prevailed around her—
sirens not to throw any impediment in the way of relief at the distress which was overwhelming the weavers
being granted to the evils complained of ; at the same of Spitalfields, the ribbon manufacturers of Coventry,
time he must state that he could not assent to the and the lace and silk manufacturers of Nottingham,
principle of the Bill as moved by his Noble Friend, who whilst hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of
proposed to legalise all societies affiliated together and goods were constantly entering our putorts
offrom
communicating by signs. By the provisions of this France and other countries, driving o the
Bill it would be extremely difficult to ascertain whether markets the produce of her own people.
such societies were kept within the legitimate objects In the port of London alone silk goods of foreign menu-
which, of course, they would profess; and, therefore, in facture had been imported exceeeding the value of
giving his assent to the second reading of this Bill he 400,0001., which was sufficient to give employment to
must not be considered as agreeing to the principle 31,000 weavers.—(Hear.) Foreign lace to the value
farther than a desire to see this particular society, of 20,0001., and needlework to the value of 20,000/.
which certainly had a claim upon the attentiou of their had also been imported, which two amounts were suffi-
Lordships' provided with a remedy for the evils of cient to give employment to 40,000 of the needlework-
which they complained. If, therefore, their Lordships women of this country. There had also been imported
should agree to the second reading, he trusted that it 7,000 dozen of boots and shoes, which would have given
would be so framed in Committee as to limit its provi- employment to 1,200 workmen in England; and he would
sions to this society. With regard to the defects in the ask the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) whether he bad come
internal regulations of the society be considered that a to rescue the country from the measures of that party
serious evil, and he might mention that Mr. Tidd which his Noble Friend had so well described as the phi-
Pratt had been engaged during the last fortnight losophers of the country; or whether the recommendation
in investigating the abuses which had lately been to appear in British attire emanated from her Majesty,who
detected in some of the savings' banks in the south of had always lived in the hearts and the affections of her
Ireland, and which were said to have originated in people? He would ask whether it was an emanation
defects of the law. Those abuses had resulted, he was of her own heart, and whether it was intended to include
sorry to say, in the loss of an immense amount of pro- gentlemen as well as ladies, because he considered they
perty which belonged to the poorer classes of society, were bound equally on the grounds of gallantry and
thereby still further aggravating the calamities which loyalty to carry out that recommendation. Perhaps the
had already spread consternation and dismay among the noble Lord had advised her Majesty to issue that re-
people. He mentioned this to show the necessity of commendation, and if so he wished to know whether it
stringent regulations upon the subject, and with these was to be held as indicative of a change of opinion in
observations he would offer no opposition to the second her Majesty's Government ?—(Laughter and cheers)—
reading of the Bill. that they were now going to retrace that course in which
Lard BEAUMONT said, with regard to the abuses they had gone so far, and by which they had brought
of which the Noble Marquis complained, the societies of the country into its present state of distress?
which he was the advocate were fully aware of their own Lord J. RUSSELL said the Noble Lord had certainly
defects, and their great ob;ect was, that they might be made a speech—(Laughter)—but with regard to the
exempted from these evils. He should be very willing question of which he had given notice, and which he had
when in Committee to endeavour to frame the Bill in so involved by hech, he understoodto it
the to beladies , whether
conformity with the views of the Noble Marquis.
to r Majesty hadis spe
given commands of
The Bili was then read a second time, and, on the England that they should be attired in dresses exclu-
motion of Lord BEAUMONT, was referred to a Select iively of British produce and manufacture. Certainly, it
Committee. was true that her Majesty bad given commands that-the
Court should a
CHURCH BENEFICES BILL. appear in dresses of British manufacture,
The Bishop of LLANDAFF postponed his motion for but he believed that there was nothing new in such an
an Address to her Majesty, praying for leave to intro- order.—(Hear, hear.) In former reigns such orders had
duce a Bill for limiting the time during which church been issued for the purpose of benefiting persons en-
benefices, in the gift of the Crown, may be kept vacant, gaged in the production of manufactures. The Noble
until Tuesday next. Lord then went on to ask whether the advisers
The House then adjourned. ot the Crown had changed their opinions
with regard to the admission of foreign manu-
factures, and whether the (aster of her Majesty
was to be looked upon as indicative of such a change
of opinion. With regard to that, he considered
that the point immediately in question was in
the confidence of the Lord Chamberlain ; but
he begged to say that he had offered no advice
to her Majesty. With regard to the foreign articles
which had been introt'uced, he was of opinion that
a great quantity of silk manufacture did not come
through the Custom-house, but was smuggled into this
country. He believed that the introduction of foreign
manufactures tended greatly to improve the manufac-
tures of this country ; and, in the next place, he
believed that though a class of persons found
that distress ensued from the introduction of
foreign goods, yet still the introduction of such goods
stimulated the production of our English manufacturers,
and led to the exportation of a greater quantity of Bri-
tish goods, in exchange for those imported from foreign
countries.—(Cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT would not attach any undue import-
ance to the recommendation of her Majesty, but he
thought that the Government and the House should not
be too anxious to do anything that would lead to
the suppositioe among the working classes in this
country, that they would derive benefit from the ex-
clusion of the manufactures of other countries.—(flear,
hear.) The working classes of France had driven
out from that country some hundreds of the workmen
of this; and he could see very little difference between
that and her Majesty commanding the wearing of
articles of English manufacture at the drawing-room.—
(Cries of " No, no.") There could be no objection to
ladies forming themselves into associations to wear only
English manufactures, but he had the greatest objection
to the Government recommending the Queen to adopt
a course that was calculated to deceive the working
classes of this country.
Sir DE LACEY EVANS would take that opportu-
nity of expressing a hope that the Government of the
country would adopt some course to represent
the claims of the English work-people who had been
suddenly expelled from France, to the French authori-
ties, in order that something might be done for them.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the subject had
been represented to the French authorities, and he
hodauserdatiaos: uirtde the Hon. and Gallant General that it
had bees received in the most humane manner. What
course
h:ciwni(i)s intended to be adopted he could not say, but
issued
earlier,
the subject would meet with the consi-
deration
BiAilt7cie.vEher:Srreiprdivfeignr:tted that the order had not bean
move an address to any that it would have but little
order she had made, her Member of that House would
Mr. HUME thought most heartily second it.
gilt,l,lFiirty, thanking her for the
would be most mi-chievoigi adoptionLa,
(as it would be calcu-
lated of such a course
g nations. He was
fated to create ill-will
afraid that the recommendation
ntohtatathpeolLitiocradl
Chamberlain was a Couservatives,h°awmld
representative of the
to in the
econonsist.—(A laugh.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE, as the repr
sense of the poor people who had been alluded
course of the discussion, would be
duty if he did not rise and express his
gratitude to her Majesty for the r-jad his
she had exhibited in the order. The distress
of the district which he represented was greatress
beyond measure—men, women, and children were daily
growing lean in their struggles for a bare existence,
while others were absolutely dying of famine, and what-
ever political economists might say, he could assure the
House that this kindnepsesoopfleh._erctletaers,tyhehaardosunk deeply
into the hearts of the . . . .
to this question, who
there are other parties
Colonel THOMPSON said—Sir, it is clear that
My constituents of Brad-
have not yet been mentioned.
aani sdt waistcoat psiseycea
nmd ahneul
ifeavce-
tureenford,
S forir foreign
pantaloon a 1 oon an
consumption,dw
trucked the there any charity—is
that these waistcoat pieces and pantaloons are virtually
If that be againstthe case,there any
ispetticoats from F.rance.,
there any humanity—is their any justice—is ladies'
to
in representing or recommendinghostilities policy—is there any common sense in this
me wards one portion of the manufacturing classes of
then
country; at the expense of another? and the recom.
dation coming too from such a quarter, I am
sure no
one wishes to speak without the utmost affection
and reverence.—(Hear, hear.) This, Sir, must have
been the doing of some Court Polonius—(Laughter)—
or of some Noble Lord who fills the responsible office of
black or white stick in waiting, but at all events it is not
the act of any lady. I have too great confidence in the
ladies to fancy
the ladies would have
have h
aveb
been
ny hand
wiser
in;
for i it. N
girl in England that theroe lisbenloietvae
wears a pair of French gloves
that does not know that the produce of Bri-
tish industry has purchased them (Loud cheers.)
With respect to the question ..--f
• distress there
is enough of it in Bradford. Privations of
suffered
arethere of the most terrible description. I have seenin-
stances of it with my own eyes; but is there no privations
or distress in Birmingham 2 I naked the two Members

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 9.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four
o'clock.

NEW MEMBER.

Sir R. Row Aim was introduced by Mr. Ilayter and
Mr. Lascelles, and took the oaths and his seat for
Wicklow.

THIRD READINGS.
The following Balls were read a third time and passed:
Derby Waterworks Bill.
Lambeth Waterworks Bill.
Manchester General Cemetery Bill.
Patent Galvanized Iron Company (incorporation of
company, with powers to hold lands, to raise money
by loan, and to purchase lettors patent) Bill.
DUBLIN STEAM PACKET COMPANY.
On the motion of Mr. FORSTER, it was ordered
that the letter to the Treasury from the City of Dublin
Steam-packet Company, upon the subject of the mail
service between Holyhead and Kingstown, together
with the reply thereto from the Treasury, dated the
22d day of December, 1846, be referred to the Select
Committee on Railway Bills, Group No. 5.
HOLYHEAD HARBOUR.
On the motion of Mr. ANDERSON, it was ordered
that the report from the Select Committee on the
Holyhead Harbour Bill of the last session, with the
minutes of evidence, ordered by the House to be printed
the 23d of June, 1847, be referred to the Select Com-
mittee on the Chester and Holyhead Railway (power to
purchase, hire, and use steam-beats, &c.) in Group No.
5 of Railway Bills.

RAILWAYS.
On the motion of Mr. W. BROWN,
that any statement or communica • talon from any railway
it was ordered
company, or any steam-ship company, or
person, which
has been received by the
reference to the steam-boat clauses of Trade in
Chester and Holyhead Railway, tT in the
South-Western Railway Company', Acts
tlAPomnentdhe
Railway, and the Furness Railway
question generally of railway companies
steam-ship proprietors, be referred to the Selecet°;aing
mittee on the said Bills in Group No. 5 of Railway
Bills.
CONSIDERATION CONSIDERATION OF REPORT.
After a short discussion, the Queensferry Passage Bill
was ordered to be re-committed.
Colonel COIVOLLY presented a' geat number of
petitions from vitrious parts of Ireland against the sys-
tem of National Education in Ireland.
LONGFORD ELECTION.
The Ifemberi; appointed to consider the election for
Longford appear ed at the table and were sworn.
Mr. W. BROWNE presented petitions in favour of the
Sites for Free Churches in Scotland Bill.
Sir G. CLERK presented a petition against the Health
of Towns Bill.
Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from Dundee in
favour of the tier ~tish Church Sites Bill.
Lord ASHLEY presented several petitions in favour
of the Health of Towns Bill.
_Lord BROOKE presented a petition from a place in
Warwickshire stainst the sale of intoxicating liquors on
Sunday.
_ Mr. FOX M A.ULE presented several petitions from
the county of Perth in favour of the Scottish Church
Sites
Sir
in RO BERT PEEL presented a petition from a
Scotland Place to the same effect.
Ntr. MUNTZ presented a petition from the Birmintr-
ham Soeietil o,
atiuiModern Masons in favour of the Odd
Fellow
Mr. W. MILES praying to be included in its provisions.
presented a petition from a place in
Somersetshire ag wrist the Bill for establishing diplomatic
relations with tiae. Court of Rime.

for Birmingham yesterday whether they had ever heard but which it was not likely a private person
of anything being manufactured in Birmingham would have capital to make. If they failed to make
for foreign consumption. They said often; and I that preparation, and if they built vessels in a hurry, as
rs. It was most ern-
-1,..ii„%e a 16,rz.,, proportion of the r-I.l"fs'eturns of was done in old times, the result wo:11 be n forgo, an
Birmingham were of that kind which it is now immense expenditure for repoi
proposed, no doubt in pure innocence, to put i neous to suppose t1,,,t builglim; bycontmot ..tould not load
downbyan attempt to secure the consumption to increased expense for repairs. Whatever might be
of on
English manufactures at the said about vessels built in the dockyards, there was not
e means of
of
expense of another, whose business it is to make a ship-builder on the Thames who would not admit that
articles for foreign consumption.—(Hear.) Really, the timber of these vessels was of a better quality than
then, I think that sufficient attention has not been paid that used in private ship-yards, and that the vessels re-
to this matter, or no one could ever have thought of quired less repairs. In 1838 two packets, the Peterel and
putting down one-half of the manufactures of the come- the Penguin, were built by the Government, and about
the same time the Ranger and the Alert were built by
from Mr. ROBINSON,)
, try to allow the other half to live.—(Hear, hear
After a few words
Colonel SIBTHORP asked when the Budget would
be brought forward?
Mr. CHRISTOPHER gave it as his opinion that the
manufactures of the country suffered more from free-
trade than the House imagined.
Lord J'. RUSSELL—After so much had been said,
be begged to say a few words in explanation. He did
not consider this order in the view taken by the Noble contract.
The Peterel cost ... ...
...
Repairs in eight years
Annual cost £8,219
••• .. 1,314
••• ... ... 164
The Ranger cost ..,
...
...
Repairs in eight years
Annual cost 7,020
... ... 8,225
••• “. ... 914
The Penguin cost ..,
...
...
Repairs in eight years „, „, 8,386
1,540
Lord opposite. He did not, however, consider it as a Annual cost
matter for which they were not to be grateful, or not as The Alert cost „,
...
... 7,478
a matter of great importance. Certainly it had not been Repairs in seven years „, „, 5,163
adopted with a view to injure other classes of the people, Annual cost ••• .. ... 737
still less was there any retaliation meant in reference to He trusted he had satisfied the House that the Hon.
the depriving the English workmen in France of their Gentleman had not brought forward any sufficient
employment. The case was more analogous to that of a grounds for a Committee upon the subject; and he hoped
lady, who, living in the country, might have had her that the Hon. Gentleman would not press the motion to
dresses from London or Paris, and who living in a vil- a division.
lage, and finding the villagers were in a distressed condi- Lord INGESTRE wished to call the attention of the
tion, should give orders that the materials should be Hon. Gentleman opposite to one important point con-
, furnished by the inhabitants of the locality, instead of nected with this subject of Surveyor of the Navy, the
; their beim; brought from London or Paris. The Lord duties of which he thought had been ill-defined and still
Chamberlain, he believed, was not a Protectionist in worse executed. With regard to the board of reference
I opinion, but might have advised such an order out of he had said at the time that it was a step in the right
• good feeling. direction. He thought the duties belonging to it had
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said this was a silly, foolish been very well performed, and that it had been produc-
' order of the Lord Chamberlain ; and he was informed, five of great service to the country. He thanked the
on the best authority, that there was not the slightest late Board of Admiralty for having appointed the corn-
chance that it would be acted upon. mittee of reference, but as he was not aware whether
proposed to substitute in its place. He
Colonel SIBTHORP said he should to-morrow (this that committee was at present either broken up or about
day) again put the question he had put to the Noble to be broken up, he wished to ask the Gallant Officer op-
Lord, to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that he posits what he
should then insist upon a reply —(Hear.) quite approved of the appointment of Sir Baldwin
Lord W. BENTINCK begged to ask the Under-Secre. Walker as Surveyor of the Navy ; but he hoped to;bear
tare for the Colonies whether disastrous news had not that he would have sufficient advice at hand to prevent
been received from the Mauritius, by advices up to the him telling into the errors of his predecessors. He had
15th of February? always held that with the march of science on this
Mr. HAW ES said dispatches had been received by subject, the Admiralty would not be doing its
the Government by the Lady Smith, and it did not ap-
duty to the country if it did not institute a scientific
pear from those advices that there were any peculiar cir-
board, to whom they might refer the plans submitted to
cumstances attaching to the state of the colony ; on the them on the subject of shipbuilding. Such a board would
contrary, the stateof
be of the greatest benefit, and he should rejoice to see an
things was then more favourable
officer like Sir Baldwin Walker at the head of it, always,
than usual. of course, under the control of the Board of Admiralty.
The Marquis of GRANBY expressed his thanks to
He agreed with the Secretary of the Admiralty in what
her Mejesty for having come forward on this occasion.
he said as to the building ships by contract. He be-
Such was the ext, nt of distress in Coventry, that in seven
lieved, however, there had been of late severed Govern-
weeks 40,000 loaves of bread had been given in relief.
ment vessels built in merchant yards. While they had
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. FORBES begged to ask the Hon. Member for such dock aids as those at Milford Haven, Portsmouth, y
Dartmouth whether it was his intention to proceed with and Devonport, he did not see why they should resort to
the motion of which he had some time since given private yards at
all. Lie wished much to know the in-
notice having reference to the grievances of distillers? tentions of the Admiralty with regard to the future
Mr. MOFFATT, in reply, said that he had no inten- regulations of the office of Surveyor of the. Navy. He
tion of abandoning such a measure. The delay had had always advocated the claims of the School or Naval
been caused solely and exclusively on the part of the Architecture, of which ha had a high opinion, and
Government, they having declared their intention to regretted that it had been abolished. With respect to
• bring in a large measure of reform in the excise-laws, the present motion he would advise the Hon. Gentle-
He would renew his notice on the earliest possible day. man not to press it to a division.
NAVAL DOCKS. Admiral DUNDAS said that as soon as the regula-
Mr. MACGREGOR rose to address the House on tions respecting the office of Surveyor of the Navy were
his motion for a Select Committee to inquire iato our
naval docks, &c., but the arguments and details of the completed, they would be laid before the House. He
believed the only Government vessels which had lately
Hon. Gentleman were wholly inaudible in the gallery. been constructed in merchant yards were the Holyhead
The Hon. Gentleman commenced by saying that in packets.
bringing forward this motion he was not actuated by Captain HARRIS expressed a hope that the question
any factious or malevolent spirit, but by an anxious of economy would be considered solely with reference to
desire to impress upon the House the fact that the ex- the efficiency of the navy, and not in the spirit of party.
penditure of our dockyards might be very greatly re. As to building by contract, he did not think it would be
duced without at all impairing the efficiency of the found to answer for the navy of this country.
naval power of the country. Much greater economy Mr. HUME believed that Government was anxious to
might be exercised in respect to the building and repair- do what they could to prevent the repetition of the
ing of our ships; indeed if the same system which had abuses connected with the expenditure for the navy, and
pervaded her Majesty's dockyards were pursued in a to put an end to the system of making alterations in
private dockyard, the only result must be utter ruin to ships without any necessity. He believed that Govern-
the parties. He admitted that lately very great and ment would be obliged to institute a special inquiry into
lasting improvements had been made in respect to the the state of the dockyards. In the meantime, as the
dockyards of Woolwich, Portsmouth, and Sheerness. Committee sitting on the subject of naval expenditure
But the ships of the late Surveyor of the Navy would have to consider many of the points mentioned by
had entailed upon the country an immense ex- his lion. Friend, he would advise him not to press his
penditure in alterations and repairs. The hulls motion to a division, but wait for the report of that Corn.
alone of ships of war, built and building by the late mittee. If he should find that there still remained
for inquiry, then would be the time to call the
surveyor. had cost nearly 1.500,0001. It appeared that points
the ships built and building by the late surveyor included attention of the Government to the subject.
28 ships of the line, 25 trigates, 5 corvettes, 35 brigs, Captain PECHELL said he thanked the Hon. Member
and 13 smaller vessels. And he said nothing about 50 for Edinburgh for the statement he had made ; for al-
steams-ships on a corresponding extravagant scale. The though the Government opposed his motion, the subject-
vessels which he had alluded to were built at the cost matter had been so introduced that their attention would
he had stated, on the) late: surveyor's plans, without be forced to the same.
regard to expense. The ships the Queen, Albion, Mr. MACGREGOR having briefly replied, the motion
Superb, and Vanguard, bad all falsified the statements was, by leave, withdrawn.
as to their respective displacement of water, &c. Then AFFAIRS OF PORTUGAL.
there was the Retribution steam-frigate, which cost the Mr. URQUHART then rose to bring forward the
country 100,000/., fitted out at Chatham in October and motion, of which he had given notice, for an address to
November. 1845. This vessel, when she sailed, was her Majesty, representing that the intervention under-
found to swim so much by the head that her coal was taken in her name in Portugal was unlawful, and praying
started, and her armament was modified. She was 200 her Majesty to forbid the continuation of this, or the
tons short of the required flotation. The Union, 98-gun repetition of similar measures by her servants. The
ship, built on the lines of Nelson's favourite ship, the Hon. Member referred to former debates which had
Victory, was sacrificed to the Surveyor of the Navy, taken place in Parliament on the subject in question,
The estimated cost for the repair of this ship was 45,0001. and was proceeding to quote the opinions of several
A sum of 14,000/. was expended on her, and many alto- Hon. Members in favour of the principle of non-inter-
rations made, after which she was pulled to pieces. Some vention, when
time ago it was considered desirable to cut down several AH HON. MEMBER moved that the House be counted;
of the old 74's and convert them into " screws." and there having been only thirty-six Members present,
This had been attended with great expense, and had led the House was adjourned at Half-past Seven o'clock till
to great controversy. The same remark applied to the to-morrow (this day).
dockyard at Devonport, the expenditure of which would
be little short of 300,0001. That scheme had been
conceived in the same spirit of extravagance as many
others which had been loudly and justly complained of.
Considering the system of extravagance which had been
pursued in the naval dockyards, and the declining reve-
nue, he felt bound to bring the matter before the House.
He considered that a great saving might bo effected
with regard to the contracts. Lie felt great confidence
in the Board of Admiralty, and hoped they would
practise a rigid system of economy, which they might
carry to a considerable extent without impairing the
efficiency of the navy. He was afraid the Noble Lord
at the head of the Admiralty was too much occupied to
pay sufficient attention to the details of the dockyard,
which were shamefelly mismanaged. Hardly a ship of
war was turned out without having to be re-docked and
altered at a great expense, and even her Majesty's yacht
was no exeeption to the general rule. After some
further remarks, impressing on the Government the
necessity of economising. the Hon. Member concluded
by moving for the appointment of a Select Committee
to inquire into the expenditure of the naval dockyards
of the country.
The motion having been seconded,
Mr. WARD said he felt bound to oppose the motion
of his Hon. Friend, not from any want of sympathy with
him as to the necessity of enforcing the most rigid sys
tem of economy in all matters connected with the naval
force of the country, but because a weaker case had
never been submitted to the House to induce it to insti
tute an inquiry into a great branch of the public ex-
penditure. The Hon. Member laboured under some
strong hallucination if he supposed the subject bad not
been previously considered. A Committee had now
been sitting on the Navy Estimates for six weeks,
making a most minute examination into every branch of
the subject, and he believed in the course of a short time
they would lay a report before the House, containing
the most valuable information. Not one portion of the
naval expendidure had escaped the researches of that
Committee, which was composed of the most able
men, and men cf the greatest experience. A great
deal bad been said at different times twith re-
spect to the conduct of Sir W. Symonds—
some persons approving of what ho had done,
and others censuring him in the strongest manner, but he
believed the truth rested between both parties. Sir W.
Symonds had introduced many valuable improvements,
and on the other hand some things had certainly been
done with a great disregard to expenditure ; but he
trusted that in future they would profit by past experi-
ence.—(Hear, hear.) Every possible precaution had
been taken by the late and present Boards of Admiralty
to prevent any rash and precipitate charges, and that
cutting down of ships which had cost so much money.
Before any order was issued ample inquiry was made,
and the matter was fully considered by the surveyor, by
the board, and by a committee of master builders. In
short, the present board were fully alive to the neces-
sity of preventing anything like an improper expendi-
ture. The Honourable Member had alluded to what
he considered another proof of bad management—
the controversy which had recently taken place in the
Papers with regard to the basin at Devonport. —•
(Hear, hear.) Now, no stronger proof could be ad-
duced of the vigilance of the Government. The
plan was originally adopted without any doubt as to
its probable success. But the board had felt it their
duty to institute a most searching inquiry, when a pro-
bable saving of 190,000/. had been pointed out. They
had not yet come to any decision, and no decision would
be come to without calling in the aid of some of the first
engineers of the day, whose opinions would be conclu-
sive on the subject. The Hon. Member imagined that
account of the
h a wasteful system of expenditure prevailed in the dock-
yards, and that if the board had sufficient time to
examine into it, a great diminution might be effected.
'itiscid b
, aeevo peryrolmarigsd
eediiomitnhuetioenst,imamatoeustit
foring nextto 6yooe
year,
,
the
b
oard w
efficiencyas
anxiousef the s tteoa
extend
t neand vy ,thae ndevery
memberpromise
sutiolln.fulsritehraerh,eranwd.toh make still greater reductions. The
be abolished, andstaf
found.
übl
incur.
ens tddi . teugytri
Sheer-
ness nor at Woolwich ed the dockyard at Devonport to
roeonelbvao bfi
tlheyxrapeo
respect
ees
cea towdi h
the
of Sheerw.rti probably
recommend the
at Chatham, but it wouldllee attended with a consider-
able Sheerness,
a proper substitute be
urotomnemitiher at
might be obtained
the
everythingexam in examinations ntsh
they
n the doc k -
yard s, the board had done
connectedo officers worthy
with
t t heti
h otopofislslitbhlye
choiguhld
atondensruesrpeoanssiuheleessdionntieosf orwthiyhy
ships,diffrence between shouldbe
e
re-
spective situations. With regard to the saving
atconthtrearcetswfaosr bauilgdrienagt
the
th
war-steamers and merchant-steamers. The Hon.
Gen-
tleman had alluded to the Terrible That steamer had
been eminently successsful. With regard to the Fury,
reeffceocltleedc tiend
that vessel had steamed all the way out to the East
Indies without repairs. He had no doubt that in future
all matters connected with war-steamers would be better
regulated, 1 d and that therewould be less disappoint-
ment with respect to their qualities. The Honourable
had alluded to the system of building by
Gentleman
private builder would on the
contract. But what pri
sufficient hand a'
stock
chance of a contract, keep on
the dockyards there
of well-seasoned timber. In
000 loads of timber, all seasoned
were at present 66 , • h !vas highly necessary,
for use, a preparation wine

THE " COUNT OUT" LAST NIGHT.
The following is the list of Members present when the
House was counted:—
Arundel, Earl of Palmerston, Viscount
Barnard, E. G. Peto, S. M.
Bright, J. Robinson, G. R.
Brown, W. S. Rusiell, Lord J.
Bellew, R. M. Rich, H.
Busfeild, W. Stuart, Lord D.
Bankes, G. Stanley, E. J.
Baines, M. T. Strickland, Sir G.
Cobden, R. Smith, J. A.
Duncan, G. S..rope, G. P.
Evans, Sir de Lacy Thompson, Colonel
French, F. Thompson, G.
Hume, J. Urquhart, D.
Hawes, 13. Ward, G. H.
Hill, Lord M. Williams, J.
Keppel, G. T. Williamson, Sir H.
Alolesworth, Sir W. Wood, Sir C.