The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-25 00:00:00

MANCH ESTEE,. Jinx 24.

STOCK EXCICANGM—The sales are—Caledonian, Pre-
ference, % p.—Great Northern, Lancashire and York-
shire (late West Riding Union) Fifths, 3,714 n. dis.— Ditto, 10/.
Preference, 6 per cent., % p.—Manchester, Sheffield, and
Lincolnshire, Eighths, 5 c. dis.—Ditto (Grimsby), 201.
Shares, 834 dis.—North Staffordshire, 2 9-16 dis. —North
union (A), 20`2%—South-Eastern and Dover, No. 4,
2 11-16 dis.

BIRMINGHAM, JULY 24.
STOCK -EXCIi.",NGE.—The sales are—North Staffordshire,
VA—Shrewsbury and Birmingham (A), 51A.

THE CHOLER A..—On Monday a letter was received
by the owners of the Marion, of Leith, dated Elsinore,
stating that the master, Captain Beal, had died of cho-
lera, on the voyage home from St. Petersburgh, and that
one of the crew was labouring under the disease,—Edin-
burgh Post.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, July 24.

(Continued from our Third Edition of last night.)

IRISH CONSPIRATORS DETENTION BILL.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH believed that this
measure, if introduced some months ago, might have pre-
vented the organization of the clubs, but he believed
that now it would be toolate to prevent rebellion. Writings
as exciting had been published three months since by that
person who have now been transported for his crimes,
and no steps had been taken in consequence. Three
months since, he (Lord Ellenborough) had urged the
necessity of proclaiming Dublin. Were they to be
told that it was not till the 18th July that the Lord-Lieu-
tenant for the first time saw the necessity for applying to
Parliament for fresh powers? That rebellion had been
growing up with the knowledge of the Government,
both here and in Ireland, and yet no steps had been
taken, up to that time, to put it down. The country
had not been organized by the Government. He be-
lieved the measure would not prevent, but precipitate,
the rebellion, and the Government ought to be prepared
for such a contingency. When they had rebellion in the
south, they ought to arm and organize the north.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE assured the House
and the Noble Lord that the Government had well
weighed the course they had to pursue before they came
to Parliament for additional powers; and, on a fitting
opportunity, when the motion of the Noble Earl came
on for discussion, he would be prepared to satisfy the
House that, with respect to the time when, and the mode
in which they applied to Parliament, they had acted
with moderation, but also with firmness.
The Earl of GLENG ALL, who was at first very in-
distinctly heard, said he was happy to say that the ac-
counts he had received respecting the views of the Roman
Catholic clergy were generally satisfactory. He was
sorry to say, however, that he knew on undoubted au-
thority the names of several young Roman Catholic cler-
gymen who were urging the people to rebellion. A Rev.
Gentlemen, the day afier the recent proclamations were
issued, declared the time had come for striking the death-
blow of British power in Ireland. He (the Earl of Glen-
gall) would respectfully lift his humble voice to warn
the Roman Catholic clergy that revolution in every
country had been fatal to the authbrity of their body;
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE having moved that
the standing orders be suspended, the Bill was read a
second time, the Committee was negatived, and the Bill
was then read a third time and passed.
HEALTH. OF TOWNS BILL. _ _

Lord CAMPBELL moved the Committee on this Bill.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH thought it had been
greatly improved in the Select Committee.
Lord REDESDALE considered that the proviso which
excluded so many works from the operation of the smoke
prevention clause in the Bill was unnecessary. Ho had,
however, been obliged to accede to it.
The Bill then passed through Committee, and was re-
ported to the House.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 24.
THE RIVER DEE COMPANY.

Sir ROBERT PEEL presented a petition, numerously
signed, from the inhabitants of the city of Chester, com-
plaining of the state of the river Dee, and alleging
that the provisions of the Act of Parliament had not
been complied with by the Dee Company. The allega-
tions of the petition were :—" That the said river and
port afford a striking example of the danger to which
the interests of navigation may be exposed by placing
the power over the river in the hands of a joint-stock
company, whose principal interest consisted in the suc-
cessful reclaiming of land. That the area of the estuary
of the Dee between Chester and Kelstra was formerly
about 12,000 acres, covered at every spring tide ; of this
space 8,000 acres have been enclosed, or as it is termed
reclaimed, and the tidal water excluded. That about
5,000 acres of the land thus obtained on the Cheshire
side now form the Dee Company's estate ; and nearly
3,000 acres on the Flintshire shore are the property of
the adjoining landed proprietors. That the Act of Par-
liament that sanctioned this extensive encroachment
required that a depth of 15 feet at ordinary spring tides
should be maintained up to Chester, in default of which
the rental of the company was liable to be seized and
applied to the improvement of the navigation. That it
appears in evidence that this condition had not been
complied with, and that the river was in so bad a state
in December, 1844, that a vessel drawing only 8 feet. of
water could not go up to Chester on a spring tide. That
the said report goes on to state that a rubble-stone dyke
or embankment extends seven miles along the Cheshire
side of the river on a line most injudiciously laid out
with regard to navigation ; that this dyke, a portion of
which is covered at half-tide, is only marked by insigni-
ficant perches or beacons; that several vessels have
struck on it, some of which have been entirely lost; that
the river from Flint upwards, is neither lighted nor
buoyed ; that a weir or milldam, rising eleven feet
above the bed of the river, exists just above the city,
dams the water up for several miles, and prevents the
upward flood ; that loads of stones are thrown into the
river to secure the foot of the jetties ; and that at Park-
gate, twelve miles below Chester, which formerly was
one of the principal mail-packet stations between Eng-
land and Ireland, a dry sandbank now extends almost
across the estuary. The petitioners most earnestly sub-
mit to the House the propriety of carrying out the mea-
sure propounded by the Tidal Harbour Commissioners,
by the enactment of a general Conservancy Bill." The
night Hon. Baronet said he thought this was a matter
of great importance. and he suggested that the Hon.
and Learned Member for Chester (the Attorney-
General) should move that the petition be printed, in
order that a Committee might be appointed to inquire
into the matter.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL presented a petition
to the same effect from the town• council of Chester.
The Hon. Gentleman said he should to-morrow move
that both the petitions be printed.
SUPPLY.—IRISH JURIES.

On the motion for going into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. FAGAN rose to resume the adjourned debate on
Mr. Keogh's motion with respect to the constitution of
Irish juries. He said the time had at length arrived when
they must look the evils under which Ireland laboured
sternly in the face, and not delay the remedial measures
which she required longer. He did not think it would
be fair to allow the observations of the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir G. Grey) with respect to that Hon. Gen-
tleman's address to pass unnoticed. Though he differed
with the political opinions of the Hon. Member as widely
as the poles were asunder, yet he must be permitted to
say of him that he was not the first to introduce a
spirit of acrimony into the debate. t It was true he
introduced some party feeling into the debate; but his
observations were directed against the Government and
not against individuals. Personalities were first intro-
duced into the debate by the Right Hon. Baronet, who
charged the Hon. Member for Athlone with having
praised the Whig Government of 1840, and of having
become a Conservative in 1848. If he had done so—
and really that was not the matter at issue before
the House—he had simply done that of which the
Cannings and Pitts of former days were not ashamed.
In his opinion the Hon. Gentleman was an able statesman,
and might rank amongst the best politicians of his coun-
try. He regretted the Hon. Member for Dublin had
joined in the personal attack upon the Hon. Member.
The rule that had been carried out and adopted was a
perpetual and total exclusion of the Roman Catholics
from the jury lists in Ireland, without any regard to
their political opinions. The truth of thematterwas,
that in consequence of the trials of Mr. Smith
O'Brien
and
d in Dublin
Mr.Meag
andher in this u
agood country t t
ofr eTroin theteme subject
ntpreva iled
both of
upontri l by
themind
jury, and
of
ju r y
to try Mr. Mitchel.—(Hear, aesar.unfaTirhlyereeeleceotueldd
be no doubt that the jury w
whicha nd a preferencehad given eenr
creation
ire rut)
et Protestants ta. a ngt
es
modvietr
dealhC artehf Catholics
cs
content in Ireland upon the subject of. Mr.. c e a
d wasto the g
wouldal.
have the effect of securing fair and impartial juries
He sincerely hoped that the discussion in that House.
for those prisoners who were now on the eve of trial, and
justice to the people of Ireland. He would give his
cordial support to the motion of his Hon. Friend.
Mr. H. URATTAN likewise supported the motion,
taking the same view of the duty of the Government
officers respecting the religious and political sentiments
of those placed upon the lists, from neither of which
did he think they ought to be rejected as jurors. He
would advise the Government not to irritate the people
further. The people were reduced to such a state now
that it was impossible to live in the country without
running the risk of losing one's life. The Government
would flatter themselves, indeed, if they fancied that
fever or famine were at an end. The people were living
at, in many case, id. a day from week to week. He
objected to the manner in which the Bill for the suspen-
sion of the Habeas Corpus Act was passed. The Go-
vernment had no right to come down to the House
and take away the liberties of the Irish people, their
representatives being almost wholly absent from the
House, and solely on account of a few madmen having
gone about the country trying to excite the people, and
writing some violent articles in a couple of newspapers.
He was lately in the county of Monaghan, which was
stated to be a dgurbed county, but in his opinion the
people there had no arms, and had not the alighted

-
idea of a disturbance.—(Hear, bear.) It seemed to
him that the connexion between Ireland and this coun-
try was only to be maintained at the expenve of the
liberties of the Irish people.—(Hear, hear.) The Go-
vernment, for the purpose of conciliating the people of
Ireland, ought to send back to them the Irish aristocracy,
the absentee proprietors, and the rents which they hail
taken away. The proceedings in that House had dis-
appointed the country from year to year. When, then,
'the Noble Lord found that the people of Ireland where
discontents 4 be came down to the House with a Bill to
deprive them of their liberties, and designated men as
traitors who were no more traitors than the Noble Lord
himself. The Noble Lord also stated that the Bill was
intended to put down a set of men whose object was
plunder. He repudiated the assertion that their object
was plunder. He was sure that was not the object of
Mr. S. O'Brien. He would assure the House that the
minds of the Irish people were poisoned by the London
journals as well us Irish papers. Rekrring to the
measures for Ireland which were before the House, he
said that there was one which could not pass, another
too late, and a third (the Incumbered Estates 13El)—
a Bill to enable raiuper landlords to sell their over-
burthened acres—and which would be of no benefit
to the people of Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman concluded
by stating that there was an attempt made to sow civil
and religious divcord in the northern part of Ireland, in-
asmuch as one cf the emplolgs of the Dublin Castle was
known to have said that if the repealers of that part of
Ireland did notabandon the repealcry they would be given
up to the Northern Orangemen.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that he would not follow the
Hon. Gentleman who last spoke in alluding to his obser-
vations on the Bill which passed the House last Saturday.
If anybody doubted the necessity which existed for such
a measure he had only to read the intelligence which had
arrived that day from Ireland to arrive at the conclusion
that the House was fully justified i❑ passing it. With
regard to what fell from the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Keogh)
who brought forward this amendment in reference
to the motives which had induced him to leave the House
on Friday night, he should say that he left the House
not through any disrespect to the Hon. Gentleman or
the motion which he brought forward, but because ho
himself had a motion of great importance to bring before
the House on the following morning, and because he
had to read several documents, and to consider well the
grounds which be should put forward for the introduc-
tion of so important a measure. He knew it would take
some time to inspect those documents, and he thought he
had better-leave the House for that purpose than to at-
tend during the remainder of the debate on the Hon.
Gentleman's motion.—(Cheers.) With regard to the
motion which the Hon. Gentleman brought forward, he
did not think that, in alluding to the case of Mr.
Mitchel, he was justified in a statement that.he made, to
the effect that the sheriff was an officer appointed by
the Crown. Technically, it might be said that he was;
but, in fact, he was selected out of three persons
named by the Chief Justice. Evidently, that was to-
tally different from his being an officer selected by the
Crown. With regard to the conduct of the sheriff, in
his (Lord J. Russell's) belief, the sheriff performed his
duty conscientiously. But the Hon. Gentleman said
that, it was owing to leaving out of the list the names of
a great number of Catholics, and to challenging the
names of certain persons who were placed on the jury
list. It was asked also whether it was intended to pre-
vent-Catholics and repealer* from acting as jurymen. He
would answer—neither one nor the other was intended
to be omitted. Catholics were equally qualified with.
Protestants to act as jurors on general questions, and a
man's being a repealer did not disqualify him ; but this
question was with regard to the offence of a person who
declared openly that Ireland ought to be separated from
Eogland ; that she should be a separate republic ; that
the Queen ought to be deposed from her authority and
title ; and that such a measure should be accomplished
immediately. The question was with regard to the per-
sons to be selected to act as jurors in such a case, whether
or not they were persons who would do their duty in
trying it—in fact whether they were likely to give a ver-
dict according to the evidence. If the Attorney-Gene-
ral thought that there were any persons on the jury who
were not likely to give a verdict according to the evi-
dence, and who were likely to give a verdict against the
evidence, he was perfectly warranted in challenging such
persons. As to the question whether that discretion
was properly used, that was a matter which neither he
nor the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland could enter into, for
they could not form any judgment as to the characters
of particular individuals; but it was clear that those
who published opinions in favour of the offender were
not fit persons to try his case.—(Hear, hear.) Such
was the case with regard to those who were lett out of
that jury. The sheriff was responsible for hie conduct;
but, with respect to the Attorney-General, ho was him-
self a Roman Catholic, and he did not think that it
was to be inferred that he would by any act of his dis-
qualify himself from acting as a juror under similar
circumstances. These were the observations which he
had to make with regard. to .what the lion. Gentleman
said in reference to Mr. Mitchel's trial. He did not
hear him state anything particular with regard to the
other trials. He had only then finally to say that he
could not agree, in the present situation of public affairs,
to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. Ho did not think
that the House would be disposed to think that it would
be advantageous to enter into an inquiry on this subject;
but, in conclusion, he would state generally, that there-
was the utmost desire on the part of the Government,
the Lord-Lieutenant, and the Attorney-General to give "
fair trials.
The motion was then put and negatived without a
division.
The House then. went into a Committee of Supply
on the

ARMY ESTIMATES.
Mr. F. MAULE said, that having so fully on a former
occasion stated the particulars of the votes for the army,
he should now do no more,than simply place in the hands
of the Chairman the list of the votes require 3 for his
department.

A vote of 1,336,8801. was then asked for to defray the
expenses of her Majesty's land forces of Great Britain and
Ireland, being part of a sum of 3,836,8801., 2,500,0001.
of which had been already voted.
Sir D. L. EVANS called attention to a petition which
he had recently presented, complaining of some disad-
vantage under which.retired officers laboured, in conse-
quence of their not being allowed to advance in rank the
same as those on active service.

Mr. F. MAULE said this had always been the case,
and he had heard no previous complaint on the matter.
It might be a question how far it was advisable to ad-
vance these officers in the way pointed out, though it
might be done without any additional expense. To the
officers themselves he thought it mattered little. On the
subject of the dockyard battalions, to which the Hon.
and Gallant Gentleman had also alluded, he remarked
that they were a most efficient branch of the service, but
the officers would not take rank as officers of the line,
but only as volunteer officers, and after officers of the
same rank. Hence he thought there would be no diffi-
culty in the two corps acting together.
Sir D. L. EVANS said the Peninsular medals were
not yet issued. He hoped that some order would be
made by Government which should permanently regu-
late the issue of medals to the army. The East India
Company having issued medals to the officers in their
service, rt became desirable that the same should be done
in the army generally.
Mr. B. OSBORNE considered that the-treatment of
the whole army, especially the officers of the line, with
regard to decorations, bad been most infamous. The
reason was, neither the Government nor the House had
any control over the Commander-in-Chief of the Horse
Guards. The latter required thoroughly cleansing out,
and he would submit a motion on the subject. At pre-
sent a meritorious officer had not the slightest chance
of notice from the Horse Guards. The recent Kafir
war had been carried wholly through, so far es the
brunt of the contest was concerned, by three er
four officers, who were thanked in every dispatch,"
and that was all. The names of Colonel Somerset,
Captain Hogg, and Captain Bissett, occurred in every
dispatch ; but they had received no promotion. Under
the present system the Under- Secretary of the Colonies
was actually Secretary-at-War, as far as the colonies
were concerned, for he had the disposal of the whole of
the forces there. Col. Somerset had received a very
flattering testimonial of gratitude from Major-Gen.
Smith, the Governor of the Cape; and that was all he,
had ever received; while such men as Sir H. Bawer,
Mr. Trevellyan, and Mr. Chadwick, men of great merit
no doubt, were made C.B.'s, and one of them was in the
recept of 2,500/. a year.—(Hear, hear.) Capt. Hogg,
with his native levies of Hottentots, levied at great pri-
vate expenses of his own, had been mainly instrumental
in concluding the war. This was stated in dispatches ;
he was thanked by Sir H. Pottinger and Sir P. Mait-
land, and yet, when he came home to the Horse Guards,
he was told there was neither promotion nor decoration
for him.—(Hear.) Capt Bissett was thrown aside int
the same way; the reason being that the manner in
which that war was originally carried on was not very
convenient for the Horse Guards to recollect. These
men ought at least to be made unattached majors, and
receive the decoration of C.B. In the Chinese war the
services of Capt. Brereton and Gen. D'Aguilar had been
similarly neglected. He knew the Secretary-at-War
had no power in this case, but he hoped these remarks
would be listened to in the proper quarter.
Mr. F. MAULE said that, so far as he had sea of the
Horse Guards, he believed that great fairness was exhl'
bited in their management. In this -Kafir war the first
person said to be neglected was Colonel Somerset, an
intimate connexion of the person who was said to be
powerful at the Horse Guards.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. OSBORNE--I don't believe he is.
Mr. F. MAULE said that any apparent neglect of the
officers in the Kafir war might arise from the whole cir
cumstances not yet being taken into consideration. At
all events, it appeared the neglect, if neglect there were,
was not confined to those of low rank. As to Captain
Hogg, he did not hold the rank which brought him_
within the scope of the decorations alluded to. On the
question of the general management of the army be
would not enter into details, as it was now under the
consideration of a Committee.

Mr. HUME said that not one of the reforms in the
army recommended by a Commission that sat niaeyears
ago had been carried out, although that Commission,
which comprised four members of the present Cabinet,
had made thirteen or fourteen recommendationsj
amongst others, that the Horse Guards should be plbee"
on the same footing as the navy. This had been tl7
case, although the Duke of Wellington, the soldier e
friend, filled the office of Commander-in-Chief. One
great defect of our system was that there were no re'
wards for civilians for distinguished services. He ell-
derstood the Committee on the estimates had refused to
make any recommendation as to the army ; the duty
would therefore devolve on the Government of mall
out the reforms so long needed. He entirely differs
with the Secretary-at-War in thinking that rank well
little consequence to military men.
Mr. OSBORNE said that Captain Hogg's ineligibility
to decoration might easily have been removed by mak
him a major. In the case of Major Pearson, althoug."
major, ilo 11009ratiQA wig gime HQ Wai flittOta w&'"