The Sun.
London, England, 1848-08-31 00:00:00

will imagine that Sir Gore Ouseley, Sir Charles
Forbes, Sir Harford Jones Brydges, Alderman Sa-
lomans, General Briggs, Mr. John Sullivan, Mr.
John Poynder, Mr. Charles Norris ; and East India
directors like General Robertson, Mr. Tucker, Mr.
Shepherd, Mr. John Forbes, Colonel Sykes, Major
Oliphant, and Mr. Cotton ' • or gentlemen like Ser-
geant Storks, Sergeant Gaselee, and Mr. Lewis,
were in the habit of receiving bribes from the
deposed Raja of Sattara—(" Hear, hear," from Sir
J. C. Hobhouse)—yet all these gentlemen, and many
more, have been strenuous advocates for the re-
opening of this case, and for its adjudication upon
just and upright principles. Let the Right
Honourable Baronet the President of the Board of
Control cite, if he can, such a list of
names from amongst those who, being free from any
connexion with the proceedings against the Raja,
have come forward to oppose the claims of that Prince
to justice. It is true that, previous to his deposal,
the Raja expended a large sum of money in his
endeavours to send agents to this country to cemplain
of a breach of treaty by the company ; but that
expenditure was necessary, because the Bombay
Government refused a port clearance to the ships
that w,,uld otherwise have brought those agents, and
the Raja was driven to the expedient of purchasing
a vessel to convey his representatives to these shores.
The following extract from one of the dispatches of
Major Carpenter, to the Government of India, will
show how far the Raja possessed the means of keeping
up an agitation here, and will also throw some light
upon the question of his private property :
" The Raja informs me that since his deposition
he has been much distressed for want of funds, which
I really believe to be the case, and I know he has not
even had the means of purchasing necessary clothing
for his family since their arrival in Benares, as my
advances to him have been merely sufficient to sub-
sist his family, followers, and cattle, lest I should
exceed the spirit of your instructions.' With regard
to the private property Major Carpenter ob-
serves, 'I have taken pains to ascertain from
what source the said property was derived, and it
appears that in Capt. Grant's time two treasuries were
established by that officer's advice, the one private, in
which the sums allotted for the support tof the Prince
and his family were deposited the other for the public
purposes of the State, wherein there were upwards of
six lads and 40,000 rupees, at the time the Baja was
dethroned, which form no part of his claim ; but he
declares the whole.of the money, jewels, and other
property, claimed by him as private, are the savings
of his privy purse, or surplus of the private treasury.
But I may be asked to show in what way these facts
bear upon the present state of the case, and I will,
therefore, briefly describe the condition of the Raja's
family and followers who are now at Benares.
Since the death of the Raja, on the 13th of October
last, not a shilling has been received by the Raja's
widow, or the adopted son, from the British Govern.
ment. Application was made to the Agent for the
means of defraying the funeral expenses, and the
President of the Board of Control, in answer to a
question which I put to him stated, that 50,000 rupees
had been offered for that purpose, and had been re-
fused, because not accompanied by a pledge to con-
tinue to the family the ten thousand rupees, monthly
allowance, made to the late Raja.
Sir J. C. HOBH.OUSE—He would not give a
receipt.
Mr. GEORGE THOMPSON—Such, I under-
take to say, are not the real facts of the case. The
money, I admit, was offered and declined ; but
not for the reason stated, but because
the agent would not take a receipt in the name of
the adopted son, who was the only person entitled to
receive or to acknowledgel the proffered sum. lam
also informed that other moneys have been declined
for the same reason. I can scarcely suppose the Right
Hon. Gentleman to be so ill-informed respecting the
laws and usages of the Hindoos, as not to know that
neither the Ranee nor the Minister could receive the
money, except in the name and by the authority of
the son ; or that he can fail to be aware of the fact
that the youth who has been adopted stands in pre-
cisely the same position as a son born of the
body of the late Raja. Sir, I see no reason why
800 persons should be left without the means of sub-
sistence, because those upon whom they depend re-
fuse to violate the immemorial and universal custom
of their own country. If I have been rightly in-
formed, the sum of 2,500 rupees, monthly, have been
offered to the Raja's widow for the maintenance of her
establishment. This, if it be the case, cannot be re-
ceived, except on behalf of her son, and in his name ;
and if it could, it would be utterly insufficient for the
support of the family and their 800 dependents. But,
Sir, why is this course of treatment adopted,
while the company are accountable before
man and before God for the whole of
the private property of which I have been speaking,
and are at this moment in possession of the territory
and revenues of Sattara ? It may be said that the
Itaja bad no rights, or that having died, his rights
have died with him. But, Sir, the pledge that he
should enjoy the possession of his private property,
was given before his deposal—it was part and parcel
of the measure decided upon—his private property
was guaranteed in the very document that described
him as a guilty man, and directed that he should be
dethroned, and there is not a lawyer, either in this
country or in India, who would dispute the Raja's
right to adopt a son as his heir to the personal
property of which he died possessed, or to which he
might be declared legally entitled. We ask, therefore—
and we have reason, and justice, and the solemn
pledge of a British governor, and all law human and
divine on our side—that the property taken from
the father at the time of his deposal be accounted for
to his son and heir. We ask, too, that, pending the
question of succession to the raj, the living and legal
representative of the late Raja shall enjoy the stipend
assigned to his father. To what purpose more just
and lawful can the revenues of Sattara be applied?
But we ask more, and we think we do not ask too
much. We ask that the adopted son of the late Raja
be placed on the guddee,and succeed to the sovereignty
of his father, according to the treaty of 1819, by
which the territory of Sattara, as an independent'
ceded to Pertaub Sheen, his " heirs
perpetuity." What says one of the;
saonvde rseui
cgcnetsys ,0
rws aisn
highest authorities on this subject, the late Chairman
of the Court of Directors, Mr. Tucker :
" Admitting that the Raja was guilty of an infrae=
tion of the treaty, it does not follow that it was mat
as to cause his blood to be attainted. If the Raja
should have no
legitimate issue, it was competent to
him to adopt,
and his heir might be perfectly inno-
cent, and be justly entitled to the inheritance under
the treaty."
And again he says :
" The Government of Bombay seem to anticipate
that the principality may escheat at no distant period
Ito our Government by'the demise of Appa Sahib ;
but the principality is hereditary, and should the
Raja leave no issue or natural heirs, he may adopt,
and adoption with a Hindoo is not only a right but a
duty. I have the highest authority for stating, that
even in the case of a fief or dependency, a legal
adoption cannot be barred by the Government or
Lord paramount."
These opinions I know to be those of gentlemen
profoundly versed in questions relating to adop.
tion amongst the Hindoos. Let me quote one other
passage, taken from the petition presented by the
Hon. Member for Montrose the other night, and
signed by a number of respectable and influential
East India proprietors. They say by their petition,
" That the, raj (kingdom) of Sattara having re-
cently become vacant by the death of Appa Sahib, the
late Raja, theyhirie heard with the greatest surprise
and concern that the assumed guilt of the Raja Per-
taub Sheen is advanced as a pretext against the ad-
mission of the claims of the rightful heir under the
treaty of September, 1819. But they trust and
humbly pray that such member of the Raja's family
as fills the character of heir' in the terms and ac-
cording to the true !meaning of the treaty, may be re-
cognised and admitted as his successor, and that this
House will not permit the violation of that treaty, by
sanctioning any act, in contravention of the rights of
such ' heir,' secured and guaranteed as those rights
are by the faith of the British nation."

Sir, I must now beg permission to trespass upon the
attention of the House for a few moments, while I
attempt to show, as I believe I shall he able to do,
that the dethronement of the Raja was a direct and
flagrant violation of statute law, made and provided
in such cases ; and that the whole of the proceedings
of the Indian authorities are null and void, when tried
by that law. By the 33d Geo. 111., chap. 52. sec.
43, it is enacted, " that forasmuch as to pursue
schemes of conquest and extension of dominion in
India are measures repugnant to the wish, the
honour, and the policy of this nation, it shall
not be lawful, either for the Governor-General
of India, or for the governor of any presidency, to
make or issue any order for commencing hostilities,
or levying war, or to negotiate or conclude any
treaty with any Indian prince or state (except in
cases of sudden emergency, or imminent danger,
when it shall appear dangerous to postpone
such hostilities or treaty), unless in pursuance
of express orders from the Governor. General in
Council, or from the .Secret Committee, by the
authority of the Board of Control." Had Sir James
Cerium the " express orders," which by this Act he
was required to possess, before he was competent to
commence hostilities, or conclude a treaty ? He had
nothing of the kind, He was sent out expressly to
assure the Raja of the friendly feelings of the home
authorities, and to treat him with the favour and re-
spect shown to him in former years, before the con-
spiracy against him commenced. There may be those ,
in this House who are ignorant of the view taken of
the proceedings against the Raja by the Supreme Go-
vernment of India, after the whole of the evidence
had been laid before them, and I will therefore
read a brief extract from one of the last dispatches on
the subject, addressed from Calcutta to the Govern-

ment of Bombay, and leave Hon. Gentlemen to judge
whether it points to the dethronement of the Raja
and the seizure and confiscation of his private peo- I
perty :—" His Lordship in Council would close the
proceedings, apprising the Raja that, although several
suspicious circumstances regarding his Highness had
been elicited during the progress of this inquiry, yet
the British Government is unwilling, without the
clearest proof of guilt, to condemn any of its allies,
especially one who has been so pre-eminently the ob-
ject of his favour and generosity; that farther
investigation is deemed inexpedient with reference
to the general inconvenience it creates ; and that the
Right Hon. the Governor in Council is therefore
pleased to close the inquiry, with the expression of
his hope that the Raja will so conduct himself for
the future as to avoid the predicament (no less
painful to the British Government than to his High-
ness) in which he has been recently placed." Here,
then, is the deliberate judgment of the Supreme
Government, ignorant at the time, altogether, that
the Resident at Sattara had in his possession the in -
dubitable and conclusive proof that the very evidence
upon which this judgment was pronounced was a
mass of perjury, and that the Raja of Sattara was
its innocent as the Governor-General of India of the
crimes laid to his charge. After the dispatch already
cited, we have one addressed to the authorities at the
India House, expressing the Governor-General's pain
at the proceedings of the Bombay Government, and
stating that he had ordered those proceedings to be
brought to a close. In perfect sympathy with the
Government of India, we find the Court of Directors
writing a dispatch, dated the 22d of January, 1839—
at a time, be it remembered, when the whole of the
evidence was before them, save the proofs of the
Raja's innocence, and of the plot to destroy him, which
were in the secret keeping of Colonel Ovens, in which
dispatch, they (the directors) say, that it is their
" decided opinion that it would not only be a waste
of time, but seriously detrimental to the character of
their Government, to carry on any further in-
quiry into the matter." One of two things was want-
ing to make the deposal of the Raja a legal act, an
express command from the home authorities, or open
and declared hostility on the part of the Raja. Sir
James Carnac had no authority from home, and the
Raja had never been charged even with anything
worse than a secret design to injure the British Go-
vernment. The deposal of the Raja, therefore, was
in direct contravention of the Imperial statutes f this
realm, and a violation of the unrepealed provisions of
the charter, granted in 1793. It will be equally a
violation of the charter and the law of the land,
should the local Government in India place
any other Prince on the throne, or make any
disposition of the Sattara territory, without
the express command of the home authorities.
Sir, I have before, when discussing this question,
laid considerable stress, and I think properly so,
upon the fact that the intercepted correspondence be-
tween the Raja and his most confidential agents and
friends, for three years previous to the dethronement,
was found to contain nothing contrary to the letter
or spirit of the treaty which placed the Raja on the
throne. It has been imputed, however, to the native
gentleman who represents the family of the Raja in
this country, I mean Rungoo Bapojee, that when at
Bombay, in 1838, he wrote certain letters to his
sovereign, which contained treasonable matter. Now,
Sir, I hold in my hands the correspondence, ex-
tracted from the blue books which have been
laid on the table, and I challenge the most
skilful lawyer in this House to lay his finger
on a sentence that can be made to show that
E a feeling of hostility towards the British Go-
vernment dictated the writing of any one of
these letters. They refer, it is true, in some parts,
to the political events then occurring, or anti-
cipated ; but they merely convey the information
which was furnished to the writer in conversation
with two of the company's officers, Mr. Baber, a
magistrate, and Dr. Milne, the medical superin-
tendent of Bombay. Yet, these are the documents
and the only ones selected out of hundreds, to prove
that the late Raja carried on a treasonable correspond-
ence. The Hon. Member concluded by moving—
that in the opinion of this House, it is required by
justice and good faith, that the said property should
be transferred to Shahoo Maharaj, the adopted son of
his late Highness, or compensation to be made in lieu
thereof.

The Hon. Member was interrupted in the course
of his speech by a message from the Lords requiring
the attendance of the House of Commons to hear the
Royal assent given by Commission to several public
and private Bills (for which see Lords' report).
Mr. HUME seconded the motion.
Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE defended the course
that had been pursued by him on this subject, and
appealed to the House whether the matter had not
been fully and fairly discussed, and the decision of
the House of Commons and the India Board taken
with respect to it after great deliberation.
After some observations from Mr. Hums and Sir
H IWILLOUGHBY,

Mr. G. THOMPSON shortly replied, and with-
drew his motion.

The House adjourned at Half-past Six.

FRAN CE.

Beyond the intelligence given in another column, we
are now enabled to explain a few more particulars
respecting the negotiation of peace in Lombardy. The
Central German Power sent, about a fortnight back,
plenipotentiaries into Lombardy to effect an understand.
ing between them. The overtures made to King CHARLES
ALBERT were well received, and on the 23d inst. M.
RADICE presented to the Lieutenant of the German
Empire his credentials appointing him representative of
King CHARLES ALBERT at Frankfort. Thus the latter
Monarch was the first who officially recognised the Arch-
duke Jour; as Lieutenant of the German Empire. It is
on this more friendly feeling between Austria and Sar-
dinia that the former bases her hopes of cor.cluding peace
without foreign interference ; but Baron WESSEMBERQ
declared to Lord PONSONBY and M. DE REIZET that if,
at the expiration of the armistice of the 9th instant,
peace were not concluded, Austria would have recourse
to the good offers of England and France. The news of
the intervention of the Central German Power will of
course interfere with the admission of M. BAUMER as
representative of the German Confederation at Paris.
The French Government raises some difficulties against
receiving him officially, under the plea that, except the
King of SARDINIA, no foreign Government has officially
recognised the new German Central Power, and that
'before she does scr France wishes to consult the British
Cabinet.

The Marquis' tir RThour, Minister of the Interior
of Tuscany, is appointed Minister Plenipotentiary at the
Court of St. James's ; the papers had therefore erro-
neously attributed his departure from Italy to an extra-
ordinary mission to France and England.
It appears that amongst the insurgents transported to
Belle Isle is an individual—who had been appointed a
sub prefect by M. SENARD, the Minister of the Interior.
General LE FLO, appointed Envoy Extraordinary
from the French Republic to the Court of St. Peters-
burgh, embarked at Havre on Saturday last for Brittany,
.where he. is about to pass a few days to arrange some
private business, previous to his departure on his mission.
We are rejoiced, for a thousand reasons, to observe the
following announcement in the Bien Publique, proclaim-
ing a fact which must solace the wounded heart of LA-
MARTINE in the midst of ungrateful calumnies :
" M. de Lamartine has been elected a member of the
Council-Geaeral of the Saone et Loire by the two Can-
tons, north and south, of Macon. This double nomina-
tion will occasion a new election; an inconvenience which
the electors did not hesitate to incur when they wished
to give to M. Lamartine, now out of power, the same
testimony of esteem and confidence that they had given
to him in other times."

TATTERSALL'S-THIS EVENING

SIR O'CLOCK.
GREAT YORKSHIRE HANDICAP.
8 toto 1
a
Igsgts.
agst
vx eacmu tpoyrr—e taken
8
10 to 1 agst Cawrouch
10 to 1 agst Lady Wildair
12 to 1 agst Yardley
12 to 1 agst Alliance
20 to 1 agst Prince Charlie
LEAMINGTON STAKES.
5 to 2 agst Doctrine
7 to 2 agst The Cur
ST. LEOER.
5 to 2 agat Canesou
3 to 1 agst Justice to Ireland
5 to 1 agat Surplice—taken
5 to 1 agst Flatcatcher
8 to 1 agat Springy Jack

Pooß-LAW AUDITORS.--A Bill brought from the
Lords, entitled " An Act ;to ;prevent district auditors
.
from taking proceedings certain cases," proposes to
enact that " nothing contained any Act passed in this
present session of Parliament for making provision for the
payment of parish debts, the audit of parochial and union
accounts, and the allowance of certain charges therein,
shall authorise any district auditor to proceed to recover
any sum certified by him to be due, in respect of which
proceedings in any court, or before any justice or jus-
tices, shall have been taken and determined before the
passing of this Act."

- -
IMPkRIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, August 30.
REVIEW OF THE SESSION.
Mr. DISRAELI (in continuation from our Third
Elition of lest night) proceeded to say—l ask the
House if I have not given you some information to
enable you to form a judgment why the repeal of the
navigation-laws, after having been affirmed by a ma-
jority of this House has not passed this year, and whether
the fault lies with the House of Commons or with some-
body else? I must here remind the House that during this
year—during these ten eventful months—there has been
sedition in England, insurrections in Ireland, and revo-
lution all over Europe. I should like to have seen
the Whigs in opposition with such advantages.—(Loud
cheers.) I think thatin that ca&e, if the House could
nave sat twenty months instead of ten, the time would
have been expended in attacks—for what purpose I need
not describe.—(Hear, hear.) I must admit that I have
already obtained the acknowledgment of the Noble
Lord the Secretary for 'oreign Affairs that, in as far as
foreign policy was concerned during the most important
year I have been in Parliament, the forbearance and

good sense of the House have been distinguished. In j
tact, the desire has been not to press upon the Govern-
ment;
and as to wasting the public time, so far as I my-
self am concerned, I have some twinges of conscience for '
not having brought forward the affairs of the River Plate;
but having had some experience of the inexpediency
of discussion, at a moment when the Noble Lord had
all his time occupied, I could not think of forcing him
to turn over the history of six mis.-.iuns that had tailed,
anti therefore I gave up the question. Then as regards
England, I do not think that the conditiou of England
question has occupied much of the time of the House of
Commons.—(Hear.) There was an occasion most le-
gitimate for such discussion, and that was the time when
the monster petition was presented. There was then
bat one feeling in the House, and that was that it would
be for the advantage of the country that the subject
should be fairly discussed. I do not now ester into
the question. Why? I only recal the great fact, to
show that with regard to the state of England, sedi-
tion being very prevalent, there was yet no discussion.
Therefore, as regards England, Europe, there was no
waste of time. Was there, then, any waste of time
as regarded Ireland ? Early in the year our attention
was called in the Queen's speech to that subject. Go-
vernment brought forward a measure which was fairly
discussed; it passed both Houses, and I believe was a very
good measure, and has worked well. Nevertheless, it is
not to be forgotten that in another place a noble friend
of mine asked whether it would not be advisable to do
more—whether it would not be advisable to suspend the
Habeas Corpus and to pass a law making treason felony.
In time 'Government followed my Noble Friend's
suggestion—it only shows what a friendly op-
position there is in another place.—(A laugh.) But
it was shown in another way, for a Noble Duke
suggested that they might revive the Alien Act.
They said they did not know, but, after a little time,
they did revive it. But I put it to the House, with the
insurrection in Ireland, with the most unconstitutional of
necessary measures, what has been the conduct of the
House of Commons? How inconvenient have been
those forms which were framed for the defence of the
minority and the preservation of the public liberties
!
(Hear, hear.) How inconvenient were those forms found
when the question was to rescind all the civil liberties
of Irishmen! The necessity being felt, I want to know
was the opportunity taken by any Honourable -Member
to make speeches to annoy or hamper the Government?
Were there even any demagogues to avail themselves
of the occasion to excite the passions of the dis-
tant multitude?—(Hear, hear.) I rest the vindication
of the House of Commons upon their conduct on that
occasion. Lett without leaders, split into sections,
committing, perhaps, some indiscretions, what was the
conduct of the House of Commons? I say that it was a
model for any constitutional assembly in the world.—
(Hear.) The traditionary good sense, and instinctive
courage of the English nation showed themselves on
that occasion, and that old English constitution, which ,
it is the fashion now to vilify and rail against as ineffi-
cient, unable to work, and not suited to this enlightened
statistical age, gave an example to Europe, and proved
that our system of government could, if necessary, corn.
bine the energy of a despotism with the enthusiasm of a
republic.—(Loud cheers.) I have now tested the two.
causes which have been alleged for the present unsatis-
factory state of affairs. I have tested them through all
the real business of the session. There is not a topic of.
any great importance which I have omitted, and I think
I have shown that the two causes alleged were not,
founded in fact, and that if the public time was wasted,
it was not bythe conduct of Members or through the forms;
of the House. But the time has been wasted, and it now'
remains for me to tell you' what have been the
consequences of that waste. I am now going to'
read the bills of mortality of the session of 1848. The
obituary is now almost complete—(Continued laughter)
—being drawn up to last Saturday night. This is what'
the country has lost—forty-seven Bills, all upon impor-
tant subjects, some upon most important, and many upon'
interesting subjects. More than two thirds of these were
Government measures, and therefore ought not to have
been brought forward, unless they were demanded for
the public weal. I say nothing for the Jewish Disabili-
ties Bill or the Repeal of the Navigation-laws—they have
consecrated monuments of their own. In this list I find—

Outgoing Tenants (Ireland); Borough Elections; Elec-
tive Franchise and Registration of Electors (Ireland); Pol-
ling Places (Ireland); Audit of Railway Accounts; School-
masters (Scotland); Tenants at Will (Ireland); Metropolis
Police; Agricultural Tenant-right; Poor-law Union
Charges; Qualification of Members; Tithe Rent Charge,
&c. (Ireland); Borough Elections (No. 2); Horsham Bo-
rough; Lunatic Asylums (Scotland); Qualification and Re-
gistration of Electors (Ireland); Election and Polling Places
(Ireland); Light Dues; Scientific Societies; Roman Catho-
lic Charitable Trusts; Roman Catholic Relief; Sale of
Bread; Highways; Waste Lands (Ireland); Poor-law
Officers Superannuation Allowances; Landed Property
(Ireland); Bakehouses; Life Policies of Assurance; Cruelty
to Animals Prevention ; Clerks of the Peace (Dublin);
Appeals in Criminal Cases; Smoke Prohibition; Remedies
against the Hundred ; Registering Births, &c. (Scotland);
Marriage (Scotland); Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) ;
Provident Associations Fraud Prevention ; Chancery Pro-
ceedings Regulation ; Charity Trusts Regulation ; Fees
(Court of Chancery) ; Legacies to Charitable Institutions;,
Officers of Courts of Justice (Ireland) Assimilation of Ap-
pointments; Poor Removal (England and Scotland); Re-
newable Leasehold Conversion (Ireland) Bills.
Now these various Bills occupied our time for six
months, and here again I trust I have shown that the
causes which have been alleged for the unsatisfactory
state of public affairs are not just ones.—(Hear, hear.)
I hope I have shown that if there has been vacillation,
it was not the House of Commons which vacillated;
that if there has been weakness, it is not we who
ought to be charged with infirmity of purpose. I have
endeavoured to vindicate the House from the oppro-
brium of being the cause of this great public evil. I
call it a great public evil. although I think that a weak
phrase—it is a great national calamity, because—what is
it ?—it is neither more nor less than this, that the sys-
tem of Government which prevails in this country is a
system incompetent to pass those laws and to carry those
measures which are necessary for the public welfare.--
(Hear, hear.) Now I cannot imagine a state of circum-
stances more grave or more perilous. I think it but
right, having endeavoured to persuade the House that
the alleged cause of delay is not the true one, to state
what in my belief is the cause. In my mind it is not
difficult to discover it—it is not hard to find or difficult
to recognise. I have no personal feeling in the matter.
I am willing to admit that Hon. Gentlemen opposite, in
so far as their personal qualities are concerned, need
shrink from no comparison with any body of men
in this House who might be called upon to ad-
minister the Government.--(Hear,
(Hear, hear.) But if I
am asked the cause of this great public calamity
—of this avowal of political incompetence in the institu-
tions of this country—l must say that the great cause lies
there.—(The Hon. Member here pointed to the Treasury
bench amidst the loudest cheers.) I see there a body of
men who acceded to power without a Parliamentary
majority. I think that they were justified by the exi-
gency of the case in acceding to power ; nay, that their
conduct was in accordance with the practice and genius
of the constitution, but, though they were in the first in-
stance justified in taking office without a PaParliamentarymajority, they are not justifiable in retaining it under
such circumstances, and their having done so has occa-
sioned two results, both of a very serious description.
In the first place, we have a Cabinet which cannot pro-
pose their measures with a conviction that they will be
carried.—(Hear.) After all their deliberations—after
all their foresight—after all their observation of the
times—after ail their study of the public in-
terest, when their measures are launched from
the Cabinet into this House, they are not re-
ceived here by a confiding majority—confiding, I mean,
iri their.belief in the statesmanlike qualifications of their
authors, and in their sympathy with the great political
principles professed by the members of the Administra-
tion.—(Hear,
hear.) On the contrary, the success of
their measures in this House depends on a variety of
small parties who in their aggregate exceed in number
and influence the party of the Ministers. The temper
of
.otie leader has to be watched—indication of the
opinion of another has to be observed—the disposition of
a third has to be suited; so that a measure is altered, re-
modelled, patched, cobbled, painted, veneered, and
var-
Ivar-
nished, until, at last, no trace is left of its original scope
and scheme; or it is withdrawn in disgust by its origi-
nators after having been subjected to prolonged and
elaborate discussions in this House.—(Cheers.) This is
one of the great causes of that waste of public time
which, in these days, is as valuable as public treasure.
There is another inconvenience resulting from the present
position of the Government, in my opinion more serious
if not so flagrant, and that is, it is impossible to expect
from the Ministers those mature, finished, and com-
plete measures which, under other circumstances, we
.should have a right to demand from them. Men in their
situation will naturally say—" What is the use of be-
stowing care, study, and foresight on the preparation of
a measure, when the moment it is out of our hands it
ceases to be the measure of the Cabinet, and becomes
essentially a measure of the House of Commons?" and
therefore measures are thrown before us with the fore-
gone conclusion, that we are to save the Administration
much care and trouble in preparing the means of govern-
ing the country. Thus it happens that the House of
Commons, instead of being a purely legislative body, is
every day becoming a more administrative assembly.
The House of Commons, as now conducted, is a great
Committee sitting on public affairs, in which every man
speaks with the same right, and moat of us with the
same weight—(Hear, bear)—no more the disciplined
array of traditionary influences and hereditary opinions
—the realised experience of an ancient society, and
of
a race that for generations has lived and flourished in
the high practice of a noble system of self-government.
—(Loud cheers.) That is all past. The. future is to
provide us with a compensatory alternative in the con-
ceits of the illiterate, the crotchets of the whimsical, and
the violent courses of a vulgar ambition that acknow-
ledges no gratitude to antiquity—to posterity. no duty—
(Loud cheers)--until at last the free and famous Par-
liament of England is to subside to the low-water mark
of those national assemblies and those provisional con-
ventions that are at the same time the terror and the
derision of the world.—(Loud cheers.) I trace all this
evil to the disorganization of party. I know that there
are gentlemen in this House who affect to deprecate
party government. lam not going to enter into a dis-
cussion respecting party. government, but this I will tell
you, as I told you before, in a manner which has nut yet
been met by any of the gentlemen who oppose my views
on this subject, that you cannot choose between party
government and Parliamentary government, you cannot
have the latter without the former; and, therefore, when
gentlemen denounce party government they strike at
that scheme of government which, in my opinion, has
made this country great, and which I hope will keep it
;;rear.—(Cheers.) I caa foresee, though I dare not con-
ternplete, the consequences of the system that now pre-
vails. They are weak words that would describe them
as prejudicial to the realm, perilous to Parliament,
fatal to that high tone of public life that is the best
security for national grandeur and public liberty. It's
more than this. It is the finis futorum of the great
D ardanian house.—(Loud cheers.) 1 really believe that
if
you persist in this system, it will realise results which

no revolution has yet succeeded in accomplishing-77
which none of those conspirators that you have latell
arrested in their midnit:ht conclaves have had, the ,au-
da,?.iv to devise.—(L, ud creers.) I know ne institution
in the country that can long withstand its sapping and
deleterious influenc,. As for the class of public then
that have hitherto so gloriously administered the affairs.
of this country, I believe they will be swept off the face
of our political world. For my part, I protest against
the system. I denounce it. Even at the eleventh heer
I call upon the country to brand it with its indignant,
reprobation.--(Loud cheers.) But, whatever may
the consequences—whatever may be the fortune of in 1..;
viduals or the fate of institutions, I at least have had the
satisfaction of calling public attention to this political
plague-spot— I at least have had the satisfacuon of
attemptinp, to place in a clear light the cause of this.
great national evil. More than that, I have had the
consolation of justitying this great assembly, in which it
is my highest honour to hold a seat, and of vindicating,.
in the face of England, the character and conduct of
the House of Commons.—(Enthusiastic cheering.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I must, in the first places
thank the lion. Gentleman for consulting my personal,
convenience as to the time of bringing this question
before the House; I will next thank him, as a Member
of this House, for the very diverting speech he has made
although in what it originated, or to what object it Wet'
directed, lamat a loss to discover. With respect to
the origin of his speech, indeed, the Hon. Member•
read a paragraph from a Sunday paper, referring to the
day fixed for the fish dinner. I asked the Hon. Member
whether he was reading from the London Gazette. The
Hon. Member replied in the negative, but said that the
information contained in that paper was of a more sacred
and confidential character than any which appeared in the
Gazette.—(Laughter.) This certainly was new infore
,nation to me. At any rate, I can state that the whole,
story as given in the paragraph about the fish dinner
being postponed from the 19th to the 26th is fabulous;
that story, however, such as it is, seems to have formed
the foundation of the Hon. Member's address to the House.
In commenting on what has passed during this session, the
Hon. Member seemed to imagine that he had to defend
the House of Commons from some charge which the Go-.
vernment had made against it. When I heard the Hon.
Gentleman pursuing this course, I was disposed to soh,
like the person who was told that reflections bad been
cast upon Hercules,—Quis vituperavit f I can state, oa
the part of the Government, that no such charge beg
been made. During the session we have received sup-,
port in many instances, which were quoted by the' Hon.
Member for Montrose yesterday. The measures which.
we have been able to bring before the House have been
generally supported, and indeed some of those which have
been abandoned or postponed, such, for example, as the
proposed repeal of the navigation• laws, were supported
by considerable majorities. The Hon. Member seems
to suppose that we have attacked the House because
some observations have been made about time being
wasted in prolix and tedious debates. Now, I do not
wish upon this occasion, when there is no proposal
before the House for a change in our forms.
to enter into a discussion whether any and
what alterations in those forms may be useful
for our present habits and practice. But this I will
say, that there was formerly no practice more sane'
tioned and encouraged by usage than the practice of
discussing the subject of petitions at the time when
they were first presented. Hon. Gentlemen who pre.
sented petitions usually defended the sentiments eV
pressed in them at some length, and I have heard debates
go on till nine or ten o'clock at night, in consequence 01
the speeches made by various Members on the presents'
tion of such petitions._ And yet that practice has been
• abolished, nor has any complaint been made of a bin'
drance to free discussion. If that be the case, it shows
that there may be some alteration in the forms of this
House without injury to the essential rights of discus-
sion, and without impediment to the freedom of debate.
Hon. Gentlemen resisted when the proposal for the alte-
ration was made, and I remember that one statesman, by
whom freedom of debate was certainly valued as much is
any man, I mean Lord Brougham, loudly protested
against the change, and declared that freedom of debate
would be lost if the alteration were made. No evil come'
quences, however, have resulted from it; so little true is it
that by a change of 'forms you sacrifice that freedom 01
debate which is essential to fair discussion. The Hon.
Gentleman has gone into a commentary on the prO•
ceedings of this session, and has led the House through
• various measures, to some of which I shall allude. BPt
let me, before I do so, remark upon one sentence which
fell from the Hon. Gentleman towards the conclusion of
his speech. He said that in this year there had been
sedition in England, incipient rebellion in Ireland, and
revolution in Europe. Now let me call the attention of
the House to the fact that the Ministers of the Crown
are chiefly appointed to administer the affairs of the
empire, and when we see that sedition in England has
been met with a vigorous arm by the Secretary of
" State for the Home. Department—(Cbeere)—assisted
by his colleagues—when we see that rebellion in Ireland
has been suppressed by the measures taken by this
House and the energy shown by the Lord-Lieutenant in
Ireland—(Hear)—when we find that the revolution on
the continent has no shaken the institutions of this
country, and that, however convulsed the state of Europe
may have been, we have preserved peace hitherto in
the midst of these convulsions—l must say, as a member
of the Government attacked, that the Administration of
the empire cannot have been so very defective; sedition
having been quelled, rebellion suppressed, and peace
preserved in the midst of European convulsion.—
(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) lam the more
; induced to make this remark, because,however the Hon.
Gentleman may praise the ancient constitution of this
country—in which I shall be happy to second him,
though perhaps my panegyric may be less eloquent
than his own—l must yet remind the Honourable Clem-
, ber and the House, that this supposed duty of the mem-
bers cf a Government to introduce a great number of
measures to Parliament, and to carry those measures
through Parliament in a session, is a duty which is new
to the Government of this country. That duty may
have been more or less well performed by the present
Government; but it is a duty which was hardly known
and recognised by the Governments and Ministers
which this country has produced. I will mention three
Ministers who have been supported by as large majori-
, ties as any which can be found in Parliamentary his-
tory. The first of these is Sir Robert Walpoke jt
would be really difficult to name the_ legislative men'
sures which Sir R. Walpole introduced. There was, in.
' deed, a measure which he brought forward involving an
alteration in the excise laws, but he failed to carry
(Hear, hear.) I may mention also Lord Chatham, w"°
was supported by a Parliamentary majority for ell
sessions almost without debate, and with hardly a dill'
sion, and yet, with the exception of a Bill which pro'
sided that soldiers' pensions might be paid in advance,
with a deduction of five• per cent., I do not know ant
Act to which the name of Lord Chatham is attache •
Another Minister of the Crown, who was supported 11 •
large majority, and of whom his supporters used to say that
he was born to maintain the institutions of the countrt",.
I allude to Mr. Pitt—stauds in the same position. Wit,
the exception of his great measure for the union of all
country with Ireland, few legislative Acts can be folio,"
to which the name of Pitt is attached, and it is well
known that he attempted, but was not able to car*:
measure on the subject of tithes, which was not tlll4.
macely carried till the period of Lord Grey's Administrs'
• tion. I say,- therefore, that it is not the sole or prinel'
pal duty of a Government to introduce legislative Men'
sures, or to carry them through Parliament. I lun
bound to declare that in times of great difficulty and
pressure the chief portion of the time and attention of
Ministers must be given to those questions of adwinit
tration, which devolve upon them in the exercise of 1.11
discretionary power given to them by the Crown.' "and
which every day may call forth. When, therefn
these questions of administration have to be attene7
to, it is more difficult than usual to watch the details
of every measure which may be brought before EiS
'lament And yet, notwithstanding this state
things, and the difficulty which we felt in -,00",...r
ing them, I find that out of 125 Bills intro'
duced by the Government during the present sit'
sion, 105 Bills have been already passed, or have
received so much of the sanction of the House as to ow':
it probable that they will receive the assent of the Crown;
during the present session. Many of these Bills are 0"
the utmost importance. The Crime and Outrage (Ire-
land) Bill has produced most important effects in e°1);
pressing the system of assassination which prevailed 0(1,
before the Act passed. The Evicted Destitute Poor Bill
is likely, on the other hand, to be of great use in mitt'
gating the cruelties of those evictions which sotnetiore,,
take place in Ireland. With regard to the measure 1%
the sale of incumbered estates, I own I consider that
while it requires the utmost attention to its details, it
still a measure which may lay the foundation for ,21
sounder state of society in Ireland, and I trust that .the
ji incumbered estates which may be sold may come lt:
the possession of landlords who may be sensible of I°.,
policy of attending to the improvement of the estate and
the wants of the population.. But the Hon. Gentleman
has gone through a number of measures, with regard; t
which he says that the vacillation, or change of purigll,'
of the Government has produced the most injuricels e
facts. The first question to which he referred was ghetto":
tion relating to commercial distress. Now, every one
what was the course pursued with regard to ass sob'
ject. We were obliged, in the course of the last autuso,..
to take a step which might have led:to a violation of sto
law, and which was certainly not justified according
the letter of the Act of 1844. We thought it necessary
to summon Parliament to meet in consequence of our
having taken that step. It was not for us to propose
any measure approving of the conduct which we
pursued, but we summoned Parliament for the purr':
of meeting any vote of censure which might be proP°s,,,,eit
The party to which the Hon. Gentleman belongs,
cause be declares himself to be not only the advocate! 0_".:
a member of a party, had just at that time obtained.n.:
accession to its ranks in the person of the Right 11„°,mg,
Gentleman the Member for Stamford. In the yeses...Mut
when that party seceded from the support of th
Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, they disevigicub
very great ability in assailing the measure
"
f
they had then to deal, but it was theirem insi
not to have amongst them a gentleman grtn
was
acquainted with the official
acting sines .
With -
bu
Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for the new parliagn enoft,
.tbranovs.:
ever, they bad the good fortune
—a gentleman
turn er
of great practical experience, of g.reets,
official knowledge, and who had particularly the
country.
attention towtehlel, findtb financialg
ha ntmHu
no. n
Ge t
eans concerns n
was brought before le!
That
House, moved—" , looking to the state of distress
question of commercial distress
wimer-
distrust and
cial classes, and to the general feeling ofa e
have
which has for some time prevailed among the 0
alarm by which the embarrassments.. of tr_duseh
aggravated, it is the opinion of this House sit mw

~.