The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-18 00:00:00

every lover of liberty, notwithstanding any treaties that might '
exist between the Governments of any country. This question
had not yet been decided once and for ever. The things that
had already taken place, would return again and again. lt
was impossible that that state of things, which had producedso
much misery and so much crime—it was impossible for such to
continue ; and he rejoiced that the treaty of Vienna had a
been
violated by those who had made it—by those who won so much
by it. The Noble Lord had said, and he had said wisely, that
it would be rather injudicious on the part of the combined
powers of the north—the German states, whohad gacr edso much
by this treaty of Vienna—it would be unwiserecklessaii in
them to treat that treaty with indifference. And
yet they had
done so. That treaty, which had hitherto secured protection
to a small community—that treaty which recognised rights
and the
and established liberties accorded to a small fragment of the
nation of Poland—was not respected for an hour or for a
moment when theyad no purpose to serve in maintaining it
inviolate.—. Now, that fact would not be for-
(
gotten. Hear, hear)
The Noble Lord was a strong advocate for the
appointment of a consular power at Cracow. He
(Dr. Bowring) recollected bearing him give an opinion
on that subject, in, a Committee at which he
(Dr. Bowring) had had the honour to sit, and the
Noble Lord certainly did express himself most cordially as to
the desirableness of the appointment of a consular agent. He
(Dr. Bowring) attached great value to the presence of a Bri-
tish representative. He must express his thanks to the Noble
Lord for what he had done in this matter. The Noble Lord
bad certainly done everything that he could to give effect to the
wishes of Parliament and the opinions of this country; but he
(Dr. Bowring), for one, believed, that had there been a Bri-
tish agent at Cracow —knowing the influence which always at-
tached to such an individual—knowing the weight of authority
which, thank Heaven, was associated with the British name—
he believed that the presence of such an individual would have
prevented the terrible catastrophe which had taken place.—
( Hear, hear.) Sure he was that the Noble Lord had done
all in his power in this matter; sure he was, also, that this
question would not be settled even if the troops of the allied
powers should be withdrawn from the country of
Galicia. The question of the integrity of Poland,
of its greatness, and its nationality, must return again;
and, if living in the next year, it was his purpose to show to the
Parliament of this country that the state of Poland did require
the attention of Great Britain—( Hear, hear)—and the atten-
tion of all countries interested in the progress of the liberty
and peace of mankind.—( Cheers. )
Mr. MONTAGUE GORE said he could not avoid the ex-
pression of his gratitude to the Noble Lord for the speech
which he had just made. That speech was worthy of the
Noble Lord and of the present Administration.—(Hear, hear.)
He did confess that be felt most deeply on this subject, because
he thought that it was one of vital importance—of vital im-
portance, as it respected the treaties which we should always
consider inviolate, from the attacks of ourselves, and free also
from the attacks of other countries—of vital importance also as
regarded the general interests of liberty, and freedom, and
national independence, with which that House and this country
would ever, he trusted, express a warm sympathy, and the
sincerest regard.—( Hear, hear.) And if on these ganerel
views, he felt a warm sympathy, he must say that he felt
deeply so, when such a country as Poland was concerned
—a country so eminent in many respects—a country so distin-
guished for the public virtue, for the patriotism of her sons—a
country which in former times rendered such great, such signal
services to Europe, and civilisation at large. He trusted that
the remembrance of those services was not yet effaced, and
that both throughout this country and civilised Europe it
would cause men to exert themselves as much as they could—
for in gratitude they were bound to do so—to assist that high-
minded, that gallant and honourable race.—( Cheers.) There
was one point which, as regarded Austria, ought not he thought
to be omitted on this occasion, and that was that when Vienna
was besiged in former times, who was it that came
to the rescue of Vienna? If we looked to this
point, we must feel that if any country owed a debt of gratitude
to Poland, it was Austria ; and he was sure they would feel
that the Austrian Government, especially such a Government
as now existed there, would feel it to be its bounden duty to
take whatever steps it could to do justice to that country, from
whose ancestors they experienced such signal benefits. He
confessed that he could not look at the circumstances that took
place in Poland, now some 70 er 80 years ago—he forgot
the exact time—but he could not look at those circumstances
without blushing for the degradation to which Europe was
subjected by those occurrences—without blushing for the honour
of his own country. If they could not have prevented, they
could at least have mitigated, the wrongs that had been com-
mitted. But if they would now make a reparation, let them,
as far as was consistent with the treaties of other nations,
show to Europe and the world, that a spirit of liberty and
freedom, and a regard for national independence, still
glowed as warmly and as brightly within the breasts
of Englishmen as it ever did, and, as he trusted,
it would do to the latest generations ; and although the Hon.
Gentleman who brought forward this measure might not obtain
all those papers that he wished, still be thought that the Noble
Lord would, as far as was consistent with his public duty, do as
much as he could to remedy the present state of things in
Galicia—( Hear, hear)—and he hoped that the kindly expres-
sions in that House would not fail to be oeneficial to the un-
fortunate Poles.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") With respect to
Cracow, there seemed to be no doubt that its
independence was guaranteed, and if it was guaranteed, as no
question could be entertained on that point, he did trust that
the Government of this country would feel it to be their duty to
do all that they could for the purpose of seeing that that
guarantee which they gave was fulfilled. He was sure that if
they made this case their own, and if it happened to the people
of this country to have had their independence struck down—if
our own rights had been assaulted, if our own lib3rties
had been violated, what must have been our feelings?
They would, of course, exert their utmost endeavours for the
restoration of the rights and privileges, and he did trust that we
should feel animated by no less ardour in the cause of the in-
vaded rights of the unfortunate Poles. We were called upon
to do so by the very terms of the treaty into which we had en-
tered with the people of Poland. We were also called upon as
men and as freemen, to feel with the misfortune znd oppression
of the people of that country. It had been his
fortune to know several Poles who were distinguished
some of them for literature, as well as for their patriotism and
zeal. He was acquainted with one of the most distinguished
men of that country, and he said he never did participate in
the outbreaks of Poland, but he said that he hoped he might
net sink into his grave until his country had regained its inde-
pendence. That man was now no more. He loved and
honoured him ; he was a perfect statesman, a true patriot, and
a real friend, and he always expressed a hope that Great
Britain might continue to maintain her present proud position
in the scale of nations. Such a spirit ofliberty as that of the Poles
was most praiseworthy, because it tended in a great measure to
preserve liberty; is tended to spread the principles of literature,
civilisation, and all those pursuits which did honour to a nation.
'The Hon. Member concluded by expressing a hope that this
country would not delay exerting itself on behalf of the unfor-
tunate sons of Poland.
Mr. JOHN A. SMITH concurred with the two Hon.
Members who had preceded him as to the gratitude due to the
Noble Lord for his speech that evening, but he did not
believe with the Noble Lord that the Government of Aus-
tria were blameless in this matter. Indeed, everything that
had taken place, in reference to the recent outbreak in Gali-
cia, showed that they had, in fact, countenanced, if not prevolod,
the horrible attack upon the unprotected people of Galicia.
He felt that it was a duty which the Government owed to the
House and the country, to take such measures as would vindi-
cate the character of this nation from being any party to the
atrocities that had been perpetrated.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WYSE thought that little remained to be said, after
the speech of his Noble Friend. The treaty of Cracow had
TiO doubt been violated, and they could not do better, he con-
sidered, than to leave the matter in the hands of the Noble
Lord, who would no doubt take care and see that justice was
done. But it was not of Cracow alone that they had to
express an opinion. The House, though it might not
interfere in the affairs of Galicia, could at least ex-

press its opinion of the atrocities that had been com-
mitted in that province. He had hoped that such
crimes and cruelties as were said to have been committed
there had been banished from Europe, and he trusted that
what the Noble Lord had expressed as to their being exagge-
rated was true. Still, whether or no, an expression of opinion
by that House against such atrocities could not but exert a be-
neficial influence on the Governments concerned.

Mr. P. M. STEWART could not allow the discussion to
pass without saying a few words. He was pleased to hear the
sentiments of the Noble Lord as to maintaining the treaty of
Cracow inviolate, though his (Mr. Stewart's) opinion was, that
the intentions of the treaty were much more extensive than
they had been stated to be. He had been somewhat surprised
,at what his Noble Friend said respecting the establishment of
a consul.ar agent at Cracow ; and, instead of thinking it would
have been of little service, it was his (Mr. Stewart's)- impres-
sion that great benefit would have been conferred by the
Government ► eceiving correct and authentic information of
proceedings there, from time to time. It was their duty to
watch the proceedings of the three great powers surrounding
Cracow, as he could not but recognise a growing disposition on
their part to encroach on this small independent state. He
had no doubt but that great benefit would result from the dis-
cussion of that night, and ho would conclude by thanking the
Noble Lord for the way in which he had met the motion, and
with the hope, that the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) after the
explanation would withdraw his motion.
Mr. HUME, in consequence of the expression of opinion of
the House, and the satisfactory explanation of the Noble Lord,
consented to withdraw his motion.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn, and the House re-
solved itself into a Committee of Supply. ►
SUPPLEMENTAL NAVY ESTIMATES.
TUFNELL rose to explain the first vote he had to
propose. It was but the renewal cf the vote of last year, and in
doing so he would explain that the late Lords of the Admiralty
proposed a plan for the retirement of a certain number of
captains. They decided on a number of retirements, which
they determined to carry into effect in due course of time.
He would not state the precise nature of that plan, as an
official account of it would be issued immediately, but he would
infirm the House generally that the terms were not con-
sidered by the present Board to be sufficiently favourable, and
they agreed to make the terms more favourable, and in order
to do that diminish the number of those who would imme-
diately receive the benefit. The present Board proposed the
retirement of 200 captains ; the object being the retirement
of all those who were not less than twenty years
in the service, arid fifty-five years of age. The
Board would grant the applications for retirement, as they
were made ; according to seniority. 30,0001. would be sufficient
for the whole of the present year, but when the plan was fully
carried out, he hoped that before many years there would be
an actual diminution, in consequence of the operation of the
plan, while at the same time the public would be greatly bene-
fited. It would cause the withdrawal of those who were not
sufficiently vigorous for active service, and cause the, navy to be
manned with officers in the most effe;tive manner. He would
;low sit down by moving that a sum of 7,500!. be granted for
the purpose he had stated, for the coming quarter.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER said he knew something of the
plan alluded to by the Hon. Member, but, in order that he
.night not make any mistake, he considered the Hon. Member
ought to have supplied him with a copy of the official document
which he appeared to have in his hand, in order that he might
discuss the subject fairly. For himself he had advocated the
retirement of these captains for the last thirty years out of the
House, and for five years inside of it, but he had been told it
was altogether unnecessary. lhe Lords of the Admiralty all
declared that such a step was unnecessary, and that it would
be saddling the country with a great deal of extra expense.
They then brought forward their plan of retirement ; he would
not say quite so seerAly as the Hon. Member opposite. They
told the House what it was more publicly and fully than the
Hon. Gentleman had done on the present occasion. At that
time, when they had unfolded their plan, the House asked Sir
George Cockburn whether the plan proposed was definite; and
"within a few hours afterwards, by next day, their plan of re-
tirement was made up, and sent down to all the officers and re-
po4iated. According to that list their was no limit to infe-
Why, what, he asked, was the effect of this ?
a man sixty years of age on the inferior
list i enniediately sent in his acceptance of it ; 250 instead of
300 L•ceepterl it, and the Admiralty, seeing this, rejected it.
Yet he.re, he said, they had been boggling at it from the month
of Febrzr—(aughter)—and they had left it in the hands of
the Right lionL. Gentleman.
VAJE—What is the plan ?
Mr.
Sir CH ARLES NAPIER said, he did not know that. The
Truht Hon. Gentlemen opposite would not tell him what it
was. We understood the Gallant Member to say he had seen
it, but they would not give him a copy of it, and he reckoned
this way of Ta-oceeding a most indecent thing.—(Laughter.)
Here they wet.e voting away 30,0 /., and the Government
would not tell jhem how they proposed distributing it. He