The Sun.
London, England, 1833-06-08 00:00:00

from which experiment, however, he Aid not expect any
thing but a decided failure. He gave great credit at the
same time to Hon Members for the honesty of their sen-
timents and the philanthropy of their views, particularly
to the Hon. Member for Buxton.—(Great laughter.)
The Hon. Member for Buxton, who a. few years ago ad.
mitted that delay was necessary in emancipating the
slaves, and who now contended that nothing had since
been done by the planters to ameliorate the condition of
the negroes and prepare them for freedom, ought, in his
(Mr. Baring's) opinion, to advise his Majesty's Govern-
ment to proceed with a little more caution, a little
more hesitation. It was a step which would be irrevo-
cable, and the consequences of which, one way or the
other, would speedily manifest themselves. The benefit
or the evil of the mea.ores of policy might re•
main for some time in doubt ; but not twelve months
after the passing of the proposed plan would elapse before
it would be ascertained whether the colonies would remain
to us, and be useful to us. The whole turned on the sim-
ple fact, if it was likely that a transition would be easily
made from slave labour to free labour in the colonies.
The whole principle of the proposition was, that the white
man was to be the proprietor of the soil, and the black
man the proprietor of his own arms and legs. But sup
pose the black man (whose habits rendered him an easily
contented animal), when free, did not choose to use his
arms and lees—suppose he would not work, suppose he
would raise no sugar, he (Mr. Baring) hoped all the peti-
tioners for emancipation, including the one hundred and
seventy thousand ladies, would consider what would be
the consequence. He hoped they would consider what a
paralysis would be inflicted on all the commercial, on all
the banking, on all the shipping interests of this country.
At least, let them be prepared with something like a re-
medy for so enormous an evil. It would not surprise him
if it should turn out, as he surmised, that the free negro
would not he disposed to work, to see sugar in this country
trebled in price. That would impose a tax upon the peo-
ple of six or eight millions; and would diminish the reve-
nue two or three millions. What he meant by these state-
ments was, that the country should know that in all proba •
hility they would have to pay very dearly for this work of
humanity; and that instead of thinking of repealing the
malt duty, or the window tax, it would become necessary
to inquire where new burdens could be imposed. Looking,
therefore, at the whole case, he must say that in his opi-
nion his Majesty's Government, in the plan which they
had proposed, had acted indiscreetly with reference to the
individuals whose happiness they professed to consult, and
bad acted most desperately and recklessly with reference
to the colonies and the State. Fur the loss of the planter
he should feel great sympathy; but the loss of the planter
was not to be compared in magnitude with the loss that
would be felt in innumerable other quarters. Where the
planter would lose a million and a half—for which he was
to obtain some kind of compensation—a loss of five or six
millions would be scattered over other classes of the com-
munity, all more or less directly connected with the West
India trade, for which they would receive no compensation.
It was not at all impossible, also, that eventually the co-
lonies—who were held to the mother country only by mo-
tives of interest—would, when those motives ceased to
operate, separate, and prob ,bly unite themselves to America.
The question, therefore, of compensation to the planters,
was one of the smallest in the consideration of this sub-
ject. He was convinced that the people of England, Scot-
land, and Ireland, were not yet sensible of the hots
that was coming on them, and of the great responsibility
of those who argued that there would be no loss, and of
the still heavier responsibility of the Government, who
brought forward a measure calculated to inflict so much
loss. He should be most happy if these anticipations
were to prove unfounded ; but he could not have satisfied
his own conscience if he had not stated his conviction to
the House. This was not a party question. Nothing
could exceed the wickedness of any man who took that
view of it. He now came to consider how a better chance
might be afforded of a favourable result to the experiment.
It was for his Hon. and Learned Friend, and tl.e Hon.
Member for Weymouth, however, who had paid so much
attention to the subject, to suggest some safer course to his
Majesty's Government. To him it appeared to be one
great source of danger that the experiment was to be tried
in all the islands simultaneously. He would recommend
that the experiment should be made a little more in piece-
meal. Suppose they began with Guiana, or Trinidad, or
both, or any of the smaller islands. If successful, in a few
years it might be communicated throughout the whole of
the colonies. He really did think that this would be wiser
thin a general experiment. The experiment might be
made at the same time in islands so distant from one ano-
ther, that no danger could arise from juxtaposition.
The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) had hardly
had time to turn round in his new office before he brought
forward this bold scheme of emancipation, affecting such
enormous interests both in this country and in the West
Indies. He (Mr. Baring) hoped, however, that the
House would not be willing to proceed with ,-qual haste
and anopting a measure, the circa of which
might probably be not to emancipate the negroes, but to
rivet their chains for ever. He should vote against the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Middlesex ; hut, at
the same time, he would not support any exorbitant claims
on the part of the planters.
Mr. P. M. STEWART, a sa West Indian, congratulated
the House and the country on having taken the first step
towards the abolition of slavery. The principle of the
welfare of the negroes and of the claims of the pl inters
having been once settled, he should be happy to afford the
undertaking of giving liberty to the blacks his humble
but zealous assistance. In saying this he believed he spoke
the sentiments of the West India body, a meeting of which
bail been held this day, at which certain resolutions had
been adopted, and with the statement of them to the
House he had been intrus•ed. First as to the children,

the West India body was anxious to give them a better
lot than would be secured by the plan of Ministers ;
and for this purpose, they thought the system of
registration should not be optional but compulsory,
and should include the whole black community,
young as well as old. With this provision, they thought
that all children born not after the passing, but after the
promulgation of the Act, should be declared free. The

children now born, and under six years of age, spoken of
in the Ministerial resolution, ought, in the opinion of the
West India bode, to be registered with the reit of the ne-
groes, as apprenticed labourers. As to the money clause,
the meeting of to-day, which he had attended, bad adopt-
ed the opinion, that the sum to be given as compensation
should be not fifteen but twenty millions; and further,
that, to secure the co-operation of the Colonial Legislatures,
a loan cf money should be made to the plinters, on colo-
nial security. For this purpose ten millions sterling h•td
been mimed by a Noble Lotd (Sandon), but he (Mr.
Stewart) believed that less would answer the purpose. It
was principally necessary in order to preserve credit and
to establish a principle ; and whether the Wm was ten,
eight, or only five millions, was of comparatively little
consequence. Upon these terms, the West India body in
London was willing to give their earnest and influential
recommendation to their brethren and friends in the co-
lonies, to carry the measures suggested by Parliament sin-
cerely into effect. Of this he was quite sure, that the
West India body had done their utmost to adopt a propo-
sition as little distant. as possible from the scheme of his
Majesty's Ministers:
Lord HowicK and Mr. STANLEY rope at the same

time; the latter gave way. His Lordship should not
have persevered, but that he was anxious to state a pro-
position, in which he apprehended his Right Hon.
Frend (Mr. Stanley) would concur. This was the more
necessary, as all the proposers of amendments, of which
there were or would be four, must necessarily vote
azainst the plan of Government: so that the real sense
of the House could not thus be ascertained. According
to the statement of his Right Hon. Friend, fifteen mil-
lions was the whole value of slave property in the %Vest
Indies ; and if such were the case, and the money were
given, it seemed to entitle the Legislature of this country
to require the immediate liberation of the nergroes. His
Lordship approved of the amended suggestion of his
Right Hon. Friend, that after Parliament had established
. . .

the principle on which it intended to proceed, theVfilling
up of the details should be left to the different Colonial
Assemblies. Nevertheless, it would require the utmost
nicety and accuracy on the part of those assemblies.

Mr. STANLEY said, at such a late hour ofthe night
the House might be assured he was not disposed to tree-
longupon their patience; indeed the few remarks he

should offer would be more in the way of a passing com-
ment than a direct reply.—(Hear.) The various amend-
ments which bad been proposed differed so much in nature
and degree, that they might be fair y looked upon as neu-
tralizing each other,--(Hear.) He must confess, that,
after the resolution which had been passed the other night,
supported as it was by his vote, he was surprised at the
observations of the Hon. Member for Middlesex—obser-
rations which, he really thought, would not be agreeable
to his constituents:...flewas surprised that in the middle

(to use the expres-
soifoJnunoef— June—in
ethHe
omni.d dAleieomf
btehre dfoorg-Tdaayins
worth), that Hon.
Gentleman should propose that which ought in fairness
and reason to have been proposed at the latest in the

month of February. AVhy were not his views brought
forward ac the commencement of the session ?—why
should he allow them to legislate in the dark, and then
come in the latter end of the session with his warning to
them to p iuse ?—(Hear.) Why, at such a time as this,
should be come forward and vote for a Committee which,
perhaps, his ingenuity might render of interminable durA-