The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESIJAY EVENING, JULY 21, pqa

ASSIZE INTELLIGENCE.
NORTHERN CIRCUIT.—York, July 17.
CROWN COURT.—(Before Mr. Justice CRESSWELL.)
CHARGE OF MURDER. John Rodda, 33, was charged
with the wilful murder of Mary Rodda, his daughter, at Skip-
ton, on the 19th of April last, by administering to her a quan-
tity of oil of vitriol.
Mr. Hall and Mr. Wansey appeared for the prosecution;
the prisoner was defended by Mr. Bliss.
On being asked if he had any objection to make to any of
the jury, he said if there were any there who were on the
coroner's jury at Skipton, he should object to them. On
being told that there was not, he said he had no objection to
make.
Mr. HALL stated the case for the prosecution. The pri-
soner was a dealer or hawker of mats, and, a short time before
the death of his child, was living at Skipton. He had a wife
and some young children, the eldest of whom, Mary, was
the person into whose death they were about to inquire. On
Thursday, the 16th of April, the child, which was poorly,
was taken by her mother to a medical man, who would be
called as a witness, and the jury would learn from him his
treatment of that child. It continued poorly, and on the
evening of Sunday, the 19th of April, he should show
them that about eight o'clock it was not so unwell, that
it ate about a pint of porridge, and about half-past
eight o'clock it was left nursing on its mother's lap.
In half an hour afterwords—at nine o'clock—the child was
found to be dying in consequence of its having taken into its
stomach soma oil of vitriol. During that half hour the crime
must have been committed, if any crime was committed ;
and the juhy would have to ask themselves who were the
persons about the child during that half hour, and who
committed the offence. He (Mr. Hall) should show that the
death of the child took place on the 13th of April. He should
show that on the 18th the prisoner did go to a druggist's
shop at Skipton, and bought a pennyworth of oil of vitriol,
and that he took it away with him in a bottle, which was
confirmed by the prisoner's own statement. With regard to
the latter part of that statement he would observe that when
a mau has poisoned another person, one would suppose that
the last individual he would bring in contact with the victim
would be a medical man. But there was another view
which they might take of the case, and it was this, that if
they were satisfied the prisoner had administered the poison,
then no circumstance would be so suspicious against the
father as the circumstance of his standing by his child while
in the agonies of death, and not going for a doctor. If the
facts of this case were clearly proved, the law itself implied
the malice which is necessary to constitute the crime of mur-
der, but there was a fact throwing some light upon this matter,
to which he would draw their attention. Ten or twelve days
before thisunfortunatecircumstance happened the prisoner, in
a conversation with a witness he should callbefore them, stated
that if the child was to die he should get 50s. for it from a
dead club, and the sooner the child was dead the better, it
was so sickly. That piece of evidence, and all the evidence
in fact, he should have to adduce, it would be the duty of
the jury to submit to the most rigid scrutiny. To every fact
they must give the most charitable construction that their
reason, their experience, and their knowledge of human na-
ture would permit; but if, after all, the evidence was too
strong—if they thought he had made out the charge con-
tained in the indictment, then, however painful their duty
might be, it would be their bounden duty to convict. The
Learned Counsel then called
Mr. Lawrence Bentham and Mr. Wm. Bell, the former an
apothecary and the latter a surgeon, residing at Skipton,
who made a post mortem examination of the body of the de-
ceased child, to prove that the child had died from the admi-
nistration of oil of vitro!.
Mrs. Sarah Cooper, druggist, deposed that on the 18th of
April last the prisoner purchased a pennyworth of oil of
vitriol, and said that he wanted it for the destruction of bugs.
Mary Guy and Ellen Houldsworth stated that between
eight and nine o'clock on the night in question they were
called into the house of the prisoner by his wife, when the
child was vomiting, and its flesh much discoloured. They
also stated that the contents of the stomach burnt the child's
pinafore.
Mary Rbeeder detailed a conversation she had with the
prisoner, in which he said he did not care how soon it died,
as he should receive 21. 10s. for it, and for the other two he
should get 51. each when they died.
Thomas Locock, the constable, produced the pinafore the
child wore on the day in question, and which was burnt
much from the contents of the stomach, which were vomited
by the child.
Mr. Brown, coroner, produced the depositions, and proved
that the prisoner made the statement alluded to by the coun-
sel for the prosecution.
Mr. Buss then addressed the jury for the prisoner.
His LORDSIIII' then proceeded to sum up the facts of the
case.

After which the jury retired, and after an absence of an
hour and a half, returned a verdict of Guilty.
His LORDSHIP having placed the black cap upon his head,
proceeded to pass the sentence of death upon the prisoner.
He said—John Rodda, you have been convicted of the crime
of murder—of the murder of your own child—on evidence
which was fully adequate to bring home to the minds of
considerate men that you have committed the murder for
which you are charged: Human tribunals must always fail
when they endeavour to ascertain the motives by which
men are stimulated to crime. It may have been from the
mere wearinese of watching over and attending a sick child
—it may have been from pitiful gain—or it may have been
from motives lying more deep than the human mind can
fathom. The facts have been proved against you. The jury
shi adte-
re
aton appliedof t3h.oeui rr mc
ai ns
ed.s carefullyc
jar
en
ud
md
se
tl
ai deliberately t enl yo tdoo tuhbet, has con-
been fully weighed by them, before they took upon
themselves the great responsibility of acting upon the con-
viction, and returning a verdict that must cause your death.
I must now pronounce against you the most terrible sen-
tence that is known to our laws. I can hold out no hope of
mercy, and therefore I advise you to use the remainder
of the time which will be allowed you in preparing for the
life which is to come. Ear be it from me to assume an office
which belongs not to a judge, that is, to talk to you of the
future. You will, however, soon be attended by one who has
such a commission, who will no doubt attend anxiously and
zealously, who will give you such instruction as you are
capable of receiving, and who will hold out to you all that
ctmsolation and all that hope which his sacred duty authorises
him to do. It is my duty now to pass upon you the extreme
sentence of the law, which is, that you be taken from hence
to the place from whence you came, and thence to the place
of execution, and that there you be hanged by the neck until
you are dead, and, after death, that you be buried within the
precincts of the prison where you have been confined, and
may the Lord have mercy on your soul.
The prisoner was then removed from the dock.
CHARGE OF PARRIFIDE.—Robert Knowlson, aged 28, was
charged with the wilful murder of Knowlson, of Kirk
Bramwith.
Mr. Walker and Mr. Aspinall were for the prosecution, and
Mr. Overend appeared for the prisoner.
Mr. Walker, previous to stating the facts of the case, said
it might be proved to the jury that tit the time the murder
was committed the prisoner was not of sound mind. The
deceased, William Knowlson, was a wheelwright, living with
his wife and daughter at Kirk Bramwith, near Thorne. On
the sth of May the prisoner went out early in the morning,
and about eight o'clock returned home, got his supper, and
went to bed. During the whole of that night the inmates of
the house heard him creating a great disturbance. About
five o'clock the next morning, the prisoner went down stairs
and commenced breaking the furniture. The father after-
wards went down and remonstrated with him • shortly after
which the mother and daughter heard a scuffle, and then
heard the father cry out murder. They were considerably
alarmed, and called out for some neighbours to go and assist
them. A man named Singleton immediately went to the
house, found the door open, and the prisoner striking at some-
thing on the ground. Singleton then went for some assistance,
and when he returned he found the prisoner striking at his
father over the head. The prisoner ran out at the back door,
and the deceased was discovered laid on the floor, severely
bruised, and bleeding very much from the mouth and nos-
trils. The unfortunate man lingered until the following day,
about nine o'clock, when he died.
Several witnesses were then called to prove the above facts,
and who also fully proved that the prisoner was at the time
the offence was committed, and had been for many years pre-
viously, of unsound mind.
His Lordship then directed the jury to acquit the prisoner
on the ground of insanity.
CIVIL SlDE.—(Before Mr. Justice WIGHTMAN.)
lIEBDES C. SMITH AND ANOTHER.
(Special Jury.)
Mr. Knowles, Mr. Addison, and Mr. Boothby were for the
plaintiff ; Mr, Baines, Mr, H. Hill, and Mr. Ingham were
for the defendants.
The plaintiff, Thomas Hebden, Esti., is an alderman and
magistrate for the borough of heeds; the defendants, Messrs.
Smith and Perfect, are shttrebrokers in Leeds. The action
was for libel, in having published the plaintiir's name on the
Leeds Share List, as a person who had been proved, before a
special committee of the Stock Exchange, unworthy of the
confidence of the members, by reason of his non-fulfilment
of past share transactions. The plaintiff had Instructed the
defendants to buy fur him twenty Barnsley Junction Shares,
the price being then (Jane) 71. 10s. per share. The scrip was
to be delivered in two or three days, and although repeatedly
applied for, the price in the mean time rising as high as 124 it was not until the following November, when they had
again fallen to 61., that the scrip was offered to be delivered.
Mr. Hebden refused then to take them up, when they were
sold out against him at 4/. 145., and in the following January
having refused the demand of Smith and Perfect on this
transaction, he was published as a defaulter, and for this libel
the action was brought.
For the defence a very different character was given to the
ransaction, and it was contended that Mr. Hebden was not
entitled to a farthing damages. What bad been stated of the
plaintiff it was alleged that the circumstances fully justified.
The committee before whom the matter was referred were
impartial and honourable men, fully qualified to form an
opinion.
Verdict for the plaintlff—Damages, Is.
HERDER V. RIDSDALE AND OTHERS.
(Special Jury.)
Ingham
pot the thehe
plaintiff;
otwirl.esu,
a'Aiinre.s
mrd dH.
lad], Ma ri;dliz,o
rt.hibnya
etltyeesimofilathr etoLtheeodase
defendant. •
n factsst tWheer eCrrletcli
actionat d
tahgea
iSnto;ehhkveiseElraswaxlateshweaaainnstneg.ees'ses were called en behalf of the defendants,
after
ni:vhLih octtpAslit:.ielchneo
Nwilnegs rmepilnieudt.ely
tired, and were finally locked up summed up, the jury re-
fer the night.
julY
The jury in Hebden v. RidsdalleBa.nd others came into Court
early this morning, and on being asked if they were agreed,
said they were not, and were not likely to agree.
His Lord-
ship therefore discharged theft
CM.% eO/1.--ItiViirkS v. ATRUIBO3I.
(Special Jury.)
itowles, Mr. Cleashy, and Mr, Atherton Ware for the
ytaintilf ; and Mr. b.5'.-rgeant Wilkins and Mr. Wilde for the
defendant.

This Was an action brought to recover damages in com-
pensation the seduction of the plaintiff's wife by the de-
feridPnt.. The plaintiff. Mr. Richard Henry Rhodes, is a wine
itnd spirit merchant at Huddersfield; and the defendant, Mr.
Richard Atkinson, son of a gentleman formerly a merchant
of the same place, is now a commission agent.
From the statement of the plaintiff's counsel, and the evi-
dence of the witnesses called by him, it appeared that the
plaintiff was married to his wife in 1837. She is now be-
tween 27 and 28 years of age. lier maiden name was Pea-
cock, and she is of the family of the late Mr. Cesar Peacock,
who was twice Lord Mayor of the city of York.
Mrs. Anna Maria Wilson, wife of Mr. John Wilson, was the,
first witness called. She is sister of the plaintiff, and she,
her husband, and Miss Isabella Rhodes, another sister of the
plaintiff, proved the marriage of the latter With Miss Pea-
cock, and that, so far as they could perceive, the plaintiff
and his wife had lived on terms of affection from the date of
their union up to the 19th of January in the present year.
Mrs. Rhodes has three little children, all girls. According
to the testimony of Mr. and Mrs. Wilson and Miss Rhodes.
they had no intimation of Mrs. Rhodes's misconduct previous
to January. On the 19th, however, those two ladies were
engaged to visit at the plaintiff's, where they had before
been in the habit of coming. as Mrs. Rhodes had of going to
the Wilsons'. Then, for the first time, they found that Mrs
Rhodes was addicted to drinking to intoxication, and at the.
Same time one of the female servants communicated to the
young lady, Miss Rhodes, that they, the servants at the
piaimilra lime, had observed improper fimiligritie4 betyroe4

Mrs. Rhodes and the defendant. Mrs. Rhodes was then so
tipsy as not to be able to entertain her visitors. She
was in her room, lying on the bed, with nothing
but her under garment on, screaming and behaving
herself so violently that it was necessary to treat her with
• restraint. Mrs. Wilson did not go up to see her, but Miss
• Rhodes did. Mrs. Rhodes was locked up in the bed-room,
and the window was nailed down, in order for her safety.
The defendant had long been on very intimate and familiar
terms with plaintiff, who, from the nature of his occupa-
tions, had occasionally to leave his house for two or /tree
days together when he travelled on business. When at
home he used frequently to bring his friend, the defendant,
to dinner at an early hour, and the two used to go away from
the house together; but it sometimes happened that the de-•
fendant returned to the house of the plaintiff alone, and
upon these occasions used to keep company with Mrs. Rhodes.
Sarah Kilburn, Mary Dyson, Eliza Rayner, Sarah B-ierley,
and Martha Clay, domestic servants, had all lived with Mrs.
Rhodes during the period from May,1844, to January. They
were called for the plaintiff, and their evidence went to show
that the plaintiff's wife had been given to drink more or
less from 11844 to last January, when, as it was alleged, the
reports of her infidelity first reached the ears of her husband.
These young women all concurred to a certain extent as to
acts of familiarity between the defendant and their mistress.
The first of them asserted that on one morning in May, 1844,
into
she had occasion to go the parlour to take some glasses
there, and on entering the room, the door of which was unfas- I
tened, she saw her mistress and the defendant both together
on a reclining chair; she described their situation as one
presenting the strongest proof of the defendant's criminality.
She said nothing, however, either to her mistress or her mas-
ter, but did mention it to her fellow-servant, Rayner, who
was the nurse to the children, and Rayner now confirmed
her in the latter statement. Kilburn admitted that when
about to leave Mrs. Rhodes's service, her mistress had
searched her box, accusing her of theft, but she denied hav-
ing taken anything. When so accused, she had not told
Mrs. Rhodes what she, the witness, had before seen between
her and Mr. Atkinson, and said nothing of her drinking.
This witness admitted also that she had two children of her
own, by different fathers, though she never had been mar-
ried. Dyson, the other principal witness of the defendant's
conduct towards the plaintiff's wife, had also one illegitimate
child. The evidence of these women, which was very cir-
cumstantial, showed that the defendant and Mrs. Rhodes had
been behaving with gross familiarity upon several occasions.
It appeared that Mr. Atkinson had more than once slept with
Mrs. Rhodes during the plaintiff's absence. Once, on his
coming into the house, and the eldest child having gone to
tell her mother that Mr. Atkinson was there, he and Mrs.
Rhodes had met in the passage, and he had kissed her within
sight of the servants, and said, " Bless thee!" within their
hearing. It was endeavoured to be shown that her drinking
was altogether consequent upon the defendant's conduct, that
he had seduced her before she contracted the habit of intoxi-
cation, and that she was led to drink from nothing but re-
morse. But the plaintiff's evidence proved that he had long
been aware of her propensity to drink, and had locked up
the spirits to keep them out of her reach.
Mr. Sergeant Wfuttsis made a strong appeal to the jury
against the probability of the plaintiff's case. He contensled
that a large part of the statements were utterly false, and
therefore he sought a verdict, not of small damages, but for
the defendant. It was impossible, at all events, that the
plaintiff could, according to the language of his own declara-
tion, have sustained any loss in the society, aid, and comfort
of his wife, whom he must have felt to have been a worthless
woman, and of whom, because of her wretched drunken
habits, he was now trying to rid himself by an accusation
against the defendant which was unworthy of belief.
The jury retired from the box for nearly an hour and a
half, and finally gave a verdict for the plaintiff—Damages, 101.

WESTERN ClRCUlT.—Dorchester, July 18.
Mr. Justice EnLE and Mr. Baron PLArr arrived in this
place last night. Their Lordships attended divine service
this morning, and about mid-day the business of the assize
commenced.

There are only two causes in the civil court, and eleven
prisoners in the other. One can hardly fancy, from the still-
ness of the place, that the assizes are going on, as most of the
people we meet in the streets are the sheriff's javelmmen.

NORFOLK ClRCUlT.—Cambridge, July 20.
The Learned Judges took their seats this morning at an
early hour, Mr. Baron Alderson presiding in the Nisi Prius
Court, where there was an entry of nine causes, two being
for trial by special juries. The whole of the common jury
causes were tried at a comparatively early hour, but their
subject-matter was not such as to call for any special notice.
CROWN COURT.
(Before Mr. Justice WILLIAMS.)
Joseph Plumb, aged 33, was charged with killing and slay-
ing Thomas Symonds, at Carlton, on the 13th of June, by
discharging at him a gun loaded with powder and a ramrod.
Mr. H. MILLS opened the case for the prosecution, and
from the evidence adduced by the Learned Gentleman, it
appeared that the prisoner was out " scaring crows" with a
gun on the day named in the indictment, there being in his
company the deceased, a lad of weak intellects, to whom he
had been very kind. While they were in the fields near
some cottages, the deceased was playing round his friend,
ever and anon calling out to him, " Shoot me, Joe—shoot
me." After some little time the prisoner said, "Well, I will
shoot ye ; or at least I'll scare we ;" and forthwith loaded his gun
with some few grains of powder and wadding, which he forced
down with the ramrod, which he forgot to take out again
before he put a cap on. A stander by, of maturer
years, observing that the ramrod was in, and that the pri-
soner was stooping to pick up a cap which bad dropped from
his fingers, advised him to "take care, as guns were dan-
gerous things." The prisoner unfortunately neglected this
prudent advice, and must have put on the cap in a very care-
less way, for before he rose the gun went off, and the boy
was severely wounded in the groin and abdomen by the
ramrod, which passed completely through his body. As
soon as he fell the prisoner ran to him in great distress, and,
picking him up. led him home, after which he went for a
doctor, whom, after much trouble, he succeeded in discover-
ing. The wound, however, was of too serious a nature to
admit of relief, and the poor boy expiring on the 15th, the
prisoner was taken into custody on the charge of man-
blaughter.
The jury found the prisoner Guilty, and
The Learned JuDoE, observing that the case was of a most
mitigated character, fined him Is.
THE SoSIAM FlRES.—Richard Peacock, aged 19, Philip
Radford, aged 21, Robert Scarrow, aged 16, William Nor-
man, aged 16, and Edward Thoroughgood, aged 24, were ca-
pitally indicted for setting fire to the dwelling-house of Ed-
ward Thredder Fenn, on the 28thJunelast, Albert Fenn being
then therein. A second count charged the prisoners with
tiring a barn of Mary Gawtry, also at Soham, at the same time.
The jury returned a verdict of Not Guilty.

IRELAND:

DUBLIN, JULY 18.—DEATII OF MR. GOOLD, M.C.—
The Sligo Journal, which reached us to-day, mentions
the death of Mr. Thomas Goold, Master in the Irish
Court of Chancery, on Wednesday last, at Lisadill, in
the county of Sligo. The salary of Irish Master in
Chancery is 2,5001.
POOR RELIEF IN IRELAND.—The Poor-law Commis-
sioners have promulgated an order, that wherever any
members of a family shall be in a state of destitution,
relief shall not be administered unless the whole family
enter the workhouse. The guardians of Kilrush
Union gave relief during the present summer to
some members of families in the workhouse while others
were not in the house. The Commissioners, in a letter
read at the board-room of the union on Wednesday last,
rebuked the guardians, and called on them to rescind
their order, and revise their practise. The guardians
unanimously resolved to " treat the Commissioners with
contempt." What will be done next?
YOUNG IRELAND AND MR. SMITH O'BRIEN.—Mr.
Smith O'Brien, M.P., was on last Wednesday evening
entertained at a soirée, in the town of Kilrush, in the
county of Clare. The hon. gentleman, in the course of
his address, declared himself for the Young Ireland party
in the Repeal Association ; he complained of the elec-
tions for Dungarvon and for Roscommon. The O'Conor
Don ought, he contended, to have been opposed, and,
above all, Mr. Sheil. Mr. O'Brien condemned the
Whigs for not making Mr. Shiel, an Irishman and a
Catholic, a Cabinet Minister, as well as Mr. Macaulay,
a Scotsman and Presbyterian. (Mr. O'Brien's descrip-
tion of Mr. Macaulay is quite erroneous.] The, Rev.
Mr. Kenyon, R.C., advocated the right and morality of
obtaining political amelioration by physical force, and
characterised Mr. O'Connell's doctrine of moral force as
a " vain but beautiful phantom."
EXTRAORDINARY ESCAPE.—The Enniskillen Journal
relates the following escape :—Mrs. Parkinson, con-
tractor for keeping in repair the pumps, &c., belonging
to the jail, had directed one of her men, named Griffith,
to put an old pump in repair in the jail yard, who took
to his assistance a soldier (Poole) of the 26th, who had
been confined, and who had some knowledge of that de-
scription of work. When between thirty to forty feet
down, a considerable portion of the stonework lining of
the wall gave way, and entombed Poole beneath the
mass. The stones rested upon, and formed an arch at
the cross-beams immediately over Poole's head, and
preserved him from inevitable destruction. Mr.
Joseph Tickle, plumber, with Griffith and another
workman (Kelley), courageously exerted themselves
until a passage was cleared to within a foot or so of
where the unfortunate man was embedded, when it
was ascertained, through an aperture, that he was still
unhurt. The stones, in slipping down, had firmed a
more
a.
sort of arch, which got choked in the pump just over
his head. To remove the obstruetielheneadwtaa regular
s
to
the p remove
.:n
the support of the arch which protected him, and let
the whole atiperincumbent wall slipdoosws-nibluep. onAhtittnh:
and as the side which had given way
pearance of a rugged tottering preeip
wall, to secure it with stays seemed iro
greatest personal risk, Mr. De Butts, engineer officer,
descended to examine the state of the pump, and see
'what could be done. Finding the man in a weak state, he
had some soup and wine administered to him through a
chink by means of a sword scabbard, and after remaining
down nearly ttti hour,. he came to the conclusion that there
was scarcely a k)ossihility of ortriessting the unfortunate
sutTerer, Unlessoy cutting down from the area of the J
hospital, six or seven yards distance to him ; and, as
Mr. Grey, county engineer, coincided with him in
this opinionl the soldiers immediately set to work.
While they *ere entoged et the new excavation, Grfllth
,
again desrlettleri, and persevered in the hazardous ex-
periment of removing some of the stones by which the
man was blocked in and conveying
them up in a bucket.
The safety of this movement was first secured by Mr.
Tickle, in the most courageous manner, and at great
risk, venturing down and staying the fallen fragments
of the upper
part of the wall, at a
present would attempt such an experiment. Griffith
also managed to secure, with timber, the stones from
falling on Poole, as he progressed in exhuming him. So
cautiously and skilful( did
y they time when no other
work, that at eleven
o'clock an ay..-
e• Lure sufficiently large was
formed to
lot the a situation . from
poor fellow emerge froni
Dr. Nixon,
which his escape was almost miracul"s"
physician to the
, jail, took charge of him; although
and,
in a very weak State arter 'his ergot hours cononemesos
he is now perfectly well. Griffin is the man who exerted
himself so nobly in savin county court hour© from
g our
being destroyed by fire a few years ago, and we are happy
to find that
_ our grand jury, as a reward for his services,
have presented him with 204 Mr. De Butts and Mr.
Jeffers gave him each
SKELETON A
OF
FOSSIL DEER FOUND IN THE BOG OF
POULACAPPLE•"----A. few days since, as two turf-cutters
were throwing up mould from the bottom of a deep
hole on the above bog, they dug up the skeleton of a
deer anbrought t
• d instantly it o Lord Walter Butler,
who rewarded them handsomely for the discovery. The
head is of gigantic bulk, and
armed with rows
grinders
• The antlers, says the Kilkenny Journal,
measured in a straight line from the extreme points, are
Dillf) feet,

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, July 20.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, i❑ the absence of the
Lord Chancellor, took his seat on the Woolsack at a
Quarter to Five o'Clock.
Messages from the Commons brought up several Bills,
which were read a first time.
Lord REDESDALE presented 16 petitions, signed
by 900 persons, complaining of the break of gauge at
Gloucester.

GLASGOW TERMINI BILL.
Lord COLCHESTER moved that this Bill be read a
third time.
The Earl of RADNOR moved as an amendment that
the third reading be postponed for a few days.
After a few words from Lord COLCHESTER and the
Earl Of SHAFTESBURY,
A conversation ensued, when a complaint being made
that there was nothing going on,
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY and Lord BEAUMONT
stated that there was a great deal going on.
Lord BROUGHAM thought the House ought to be
satisfied.
Earl RADNOR and Lord BEaumoier explained that
there was a motion for the adjournment of the debate.
Lord BROUGHAM thought that there was no harm
in the adjournment.
On the motion being put the third reading was ad-
journed till Thursday night.
REFUSAL OF SITES FOR THE FREE
CHURCHES. •
The Marquis of BREADALBANE gave notice that
he was entrusted with several petitions on this subject,
which he should present to-morrow.
BISHOPRIC OF ST. ASAPII AND BANGOR.
Earl PO WIS rose to present several petitions against
the consolidation of these two sees, and he begged leave
to move that the petitions lie on the table.
The NOBLE EARL then moved the second read-
ing of the St. Asaph and Bangor Bills. In making
this motion, he should refrain from entering into very
long statements. He had addressed their Lordships
too often on this subject to pass any other subjects which
had immediate relevance to the matter in hand. Their
Lordships were aware that in 1834 a Commission was
issued for ascertaining the position of the Established
Church. In the report of that Commission tht re
was a proposition to found a bishopric of Manc'iestcr,
and this bishopric was to be supported by the consolida-
tion of the sees of. St. Asaph and Bangor. But to effect
this it was necessary to hold out some inducement to
yield their rights. That inducement was the formation
of a bishopric in the rich and populous agricultural dis-
tricts of Lapcashire. The Bishops of these sees were, in
the extreme, popular, and it was necessary to hold
out some bonus to the inhabitants of the princi-
pality, and that bonus was the advantage he
had just mentioned, that of providing spiritual juris-
diction for a district but very inefficiently supplied.
He was happy he had the opportunity of appealing to
the Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) and the Noble and
Learned Lord on the Woolsack to do justice to the coun-
try in this matter. He appealed to the Noble Marquis
whether, if the present were a ease in private life, if
certain property had come into his power, he would
refuse to appropriate that property to the purpose for
which he had received it? He made a like appeal to the
Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack. He
hoped, that considering the poverty of the country,
in which these two sees were, their Lordships would
allow the Bill to pass. His Lordship, in support of what
he said, referred their Lordships to a petition presented
to their Lordships' House from people in one of the
dioceses. He would refer to the petitions which had been
presented against the union of these two sees in proof of
the feeling which prevailed in the principality en the
subject. He would refer also to those which had been
presented item Gloucestershire, from Essex, and from
Kent, to show the general feeling of the country.
The next subject to which he was about to allude, because he
was opposed to a Noble Friend of his, who is an advocate f r
the Church, and who was ready to prescribe a course which
would be more efficient than his own for the support of that
Church—( Hear)—he felt that he ( Earl Powis) could not ob-
tain a fair hearing on this subject, for he knew how the cha
racter of that Noble Lord and his influence would override any-
thing which he had to assert. Yet, with deference to that
opinion, he still felt it necessary to urge the
principles which he held, and the opinions which
had been founded upon them. His Noble Friend had
cited the opinion of the Archbishop of York, the Lord Ha-
therton, and another Noble Friend, to whom he would not
allude; but he would venture to assert, that those Noble Lords
had never been more decidedly wrong than they were on the
present occasion. He had thought it necessary to say this
much, because, knowing the weight which attached to the opi-
nion of his Noble Friend, and the weight by which
it was to be supported, he was particularly anxious repect-
ing the opposition which was to be offered to this Bill. Yet, from
what had taken place, he believed that neither their Lordships
nor the other House of Parliament would be over tender on
the wording of an Act of Parliament. The Act to which he
alluded was one passed only forty-nine years ago, which was on
a subject of the greatest interest, and which had fur its object
the preservation of the Church. But parties had materially
changed since that time. (From this point his Lordship
was so inaudible that it was perfectly impassible to
report his observations with anything like accuracy. )
The Noble Lord read a long extract from one of the petitions
presented by him at an early part of the evening, showing that
the efficient discharge of the duties of the diocesan must be
materially affected by the union of the two sees. His Lordship
concluded by moving the second reading of the Bill.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he would state the
reasons which induced him to resist the Noble Earl's motion.
At the same time he felt a difficulty, a difficulty however alto-
gether arising from the familiarity of their Lordships with the
subject. He would, enter therefore upon it very briefly. The
Noble Earl had said it would be necessary for him to state the date
and origin of the Commission issued on this question. In
1835, under the administration of Sir Robert Peel and
the Noble Duke ( Wellington), a Commission was
issued to inquire into the state and condition of
the Established Church, with a view to its irnproveircnt.
The principles of that Commission were-Ist, That they were
not prepared to recommend any additional bishops for England.
2d, That those sees should be united where it was possible to
do so without disadvantage to the Church. 31,
They recommended a new distribution of lands. When,
therefore, their Lordships gave. their assent to that
report, they gave their assent to all its recommendations. The
chief bishop of England, and the metropolitan of that city,
gave their sanction to it, and, therefore, the term spoliation
was not at all applicable to its recommendation, for
if anything of this sort were contemplated, the
report never would have had the sanction of those high eccle-
siastical dignitaries, who, it would be admitted, had no desire
to curtail the usefulness or diminish the power of the
Established Church in this country. Their recommendations
were, to a certain- extent, carried out since 1835,
and yet, up to the year 1843, his Noble Friend
(Earl Powis) had never thought proper to
bring the consideration of their recommendations before the
attention of their Lordships. The principality of Wales
actually gained by the recommendations of the commission.
The principality of Wales had not objected to receive the bene-
fits conferred by the commission, and he thought
it really too bad, that now they had receivel
the maximum of the gifts of the commission they should
refuse to be affected by the other reforms, which, though they
might appear to diminish the number of prelates in that prin-
cipality, would, in the opinion of a great number of prelates,
promote to a very great extent the general interests of the
church throughout the country. He maintained that the
recommendations of the Commission would tend to
add to the episcopal jurisdiction of the church. The
Commissioners saw great masses of the people
without any adequate assistance from the Church ; and, in
order to meet that state of things, measures like the one before
the consideration of the House were proposed to be adopted
so as to provide Bishops for Lancashire and Yorkshire.
The bishopric of Ripon has been created, and successfully
created. The parties put the wants and the revenues together
and they created a new bishopric. If any of their Lordships
had heard, as doubtless many of them had, the number of towns
which were to be thrown together, if they had contemplated
the population of those towns, they would be convinced
that the Commissioners had done their duty in consoli-
dating under one spiritual jurisdiction, the inhabi-
tants of this district, which combined the snost
populous districts of Yorkshire and Lancashire. See-
ing these eireumstances, he thought that the Church
of England would do wisely in meeting the necessity
and provide for this district some safe means by which the
morality and the religion of the district might be secured.
He would rest his claims on this ground; and allowing that, in
point of importance, this was a first-rate consideration, yet,
although he would admit, that it was an evil that these sees
should be suppressed, and yet still he must assert that the
establishment of the see of Manchester, calculated as it was
to supply a large constituency would be of immensely more
importance; but which was contained within the
range of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor. But further than
this, it appeared by the returns which had been submitted to
Parliament, that the population of the neighbourhood of the
bishopric of Manchester had so increased, that the excess was
beyond that of the whole of the sees of North Wales by
a considerable number. His Noble Friend would be sur-
prised to hear that within fourteen days evidence had come into
his hands which rendered it necessary to consider whether
the question whether new bishops might be created who should
not have a seat in this House, Looking at all these circum-
stances, he thought that it was this ditty to say no to the pro-
position of his Noble Friend, and he, therefore, proposed that
the Bill be read a second time this day three months.
The Bishop of LONDON thought that he could adduce
reasons for the support of those sees which had not yet been
p®t to their Lordships. Eli; Lordship thought that some
longer time might better prepare them fbr any change that was
necessary. As to what fel) Writ the Noble Marquis (Lans-
downe) that they should lose no time in establishing the bishop-
ric at Manchester, he was sure their Lordships .weld all agree
with it. In thinking on this subject he was of o,o:seem that
funds sufficient might be got for that previous to a vacs' in
the sees of North Wales. It was true that the funds in the
hands of the Commissioners were not more than NU a-year,
and if one of the sees in question were vacant, there would be
a surplus of about 2,0001. But he thought that they might
apply the capital in the hands of the Commissioners to the
amount of 1,0001. a-year, and he was certain of another 1,000/.
being made available within two months of this time, so that
the new Bisliep of Manchester might begin with about 5,0001.
He hoped that this Stiggestion might appear practicable with
the existence of the two sees sip-fated.a
The Bishop of BANGOR hoped, tne if he lived so long,
he might vet see such arrangements made as wou!f! riot 011t°
his removal necessary from the country where he had spent
many years. The only benefit, he said, his diocese had re
ceived from the Commission was the appointment of two arch-
deacons and two trifling augmentations. The feeling through-
out the diocese was in favour of the Bill laid on their Lord.
ships' table by the Noble Lord (Powis). These sees were very
ancient, having been constituted, perhaps, previous to the arch-
' bishopric of Dublin, and the people were very desirous that
! both should be maintained. He agreed, with others of his
Right Rev. Friends, that the bishopric of Manchester was
both very necessary and very desirable, and he thought
it had been delayed too long, having been intro-
' "--:- Lordships' attention about ten years
duced to i.e... -
ago. He was hopeful, whatever ifilget4, be they. Lordshiptl
decision, that ratans mign; 7t be found to pfeset,e
the ancient sees disunited, and also to fount. the bishopric
Manchester. He opposed their union not from any interee...4
himself had in it, but from a consideration of the interests of
the clergy, and of the country.
Lord VIVIAN said he had no doubt that the whole of the
clergy were for the retaining of the two sees ; but if they were
aware of the proposition of the Noble Lord, he did not wonder
that they should. He found by a return that in the see of Ban-
gor) there were 34 of the parochial clergy who received under
100/. a-year, and 31 under 2001.; in St. Aleph, 31 under 100/.,
and 33 under 250/.; in Bangor the churches were 38, and in
St. Asaph 24, who received, he believed, less than 80/. Yet,
he said, the proposition of the Nob le Lewd was to unite the two
sees, and out of the revenues to ch 111 Y ,a surplus for the esta-
blishmeat o f the see of Manchester. •