The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-29 00:00:00

12Vition"E
SUN OFFICE, Seven o Clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock.
THE STATE OF
DEBATED
ADJOURNED
The adjourned debate on going into Committe3 of
Supply was resumed.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL regretted the absence of the
leading Members of the Government. He wished to
enter his remonstrance against the " do-nothing" p )licy
of the Government. They had had to complain of
former Governments with respect to Ireland ; but at
any rate this could be said of them, that they pa,sed
their measures relating to that country, whether they
were good or
.bad. It was true three measures

had been passed during the session for the repres-
sion of agrarian disturbances ; he had voted
for two of the Bills, and his absence, when the
last was passed, did not arise from any fear of the
responsibility which, had he been present, he should not
have hesitated to take upon himself.—(Hear.) Much of
the speech of the Hon. Member for Middlesex was

most infelicitous, considering the state of the country.
He hoped the Government would put down rebellion,
but with that charity and forbearance which he was
sure would be exercised by the Noble Earl at the head
of the Administration in Ireland. During the present
excitement religious questions had remained in abey-
ance; but if civil war broke out, they would break out
in full force, and the members of kne religion would
be arrayed in bloody contest against another. In any
settlement of the Cnurch question the opinions of the
Protestant laity, of the middle and lower classes, must
be duly considered. lie was glad now to see the
Noble Lord the Premier in his place. He wished to
pass rapidly cn to other questions of greater import-
ance. The Franchise Extension Bill was of minor im.
portance, compared with giving the people the means of
living.—(Hear.) Let the Government postpone the
measures with respect V) the Church and the fran-
chise, and early next session let them bring in great
and intelligent measures for the welfare of Ireland.
The Noble Lord had told them that many English
measures had been postponed. This was so, but those
English measures had net, like many of the Irish
measures, been recommended ,by:seventeen or eighteen
Committees and five or six oommiasiona.-41Iear,
hear.) The eye lost itself; so great was the vista.
Then the Landlord and Tenant Bill had been most
unjustly procrastinated. He wished the Hon. Baronet
the' Member for Cavan to state the grounds on which
he opposOd this Bill, in order that the people might be
mab made acquainted with them. He wished him to
speak out, and also, at the same time, to say how,
after his opinions in the past, he could do so. The
Bill was not generally liked in Ireland. He hoped
the Government would take up the matter with
greater activity in the ensuing session. There was
then the question, of which the last Bill. formed a
part, of affording the industrious the means of obtaining
productive labour. The Noble Lord declared in 1846
that a measure providing for the reclamation of waste
lands was absolutely required, yet such a measure bad
not been proceeded with.—(Hear.,) At that time some
thought railways would relieve the distress. Each had
his peculiar notion; but the panacea that Ireland re-
quired was a series of combined measures all working
for one common end—the amelioration of the country.
It could not be expected that individual landowners
Would take upon themselves the responsibility of im-
proving land, because the burdens that would thereby be
thrown upon them would be too great to bear. Recently
the line to Limerick had been opened for a distance of
twenty-one miles, and to show how profitable and ad-
vantageous such undertakings were, he might state that
the receipts had been from 2,5001. to 3,0001. a week.
There seemed no union of will amongst the Government
as to the measures necessary for the present condition
of Ireland. He should give the motion his cordial sup-

port.
Major BLACKALL felt it his duty to vote against
the motion of the lion. Member for Rochdale. The
Government, in the remedial measures they had brought
forward, had been met by obstructive policy on the part
of many of the Irish Members. He denied that the
great causes of the disturbed state of Ireland were the
Church and the franchise. The state of both was the
same in both Longford and Tipperary, yet the former
county was peaceable, which he . attributed to
the exertions of the Roman Catholic clergy,
and the discouragement of clubs and agitation.
He had no faith iu remedial measures for Ireland,
believing that the great panacea for Ireland was the en-
forcement of law and order in that country. He was
not opposed to a poor-law Act in Ireland, but he ob•
jetted to it because it did not give a community of inte-
rest. It was of great importance that the poor•law
should be made an auxiliary to employment in Ireland.
He believed that the disaffection that at present existed
in Ireland arose not from di-tress, but the harangues of
agitators in Ireland—(Hear, hear.) Ile believed that
the bringing over of English gentlemen and English
capital to Ireland would be of the greatest benefit
to Ireland. In conclusion, he telt bound to say a few
words on the cow se pursued by the Goverment with re-
spect to Irish Members. He thought that everything
had been done by the Government for Ireland that could
be expected.—(Hear, lie:tr.) No suggestion of any Irish
Member had been disregarded, and looking upon the
motion of the lion. Member fur Rochdale as ill-timed,

he felt bound to oppose it.
Mr. P. SCROPE trusted that tho English people and
the English Parliament would at length think seriously
of the state of Ireland. He believed that the social
grievances of Ireland were at the bottom of the
dreadful movement that was now taking place there, and
that it behoved the Government to muke the strictest
inquiry into the subject. The prophecies of 1)r. Doyle
were being fulfilled, and the evils of not following his
advice were being made apparent every day. That
high-minded individual he believed died of a broken
heart, because bis warning had not been attended to.—
(Hear, hear.) The land question, he believed, operated
as the most cruel grievance upon the people of Ireland,
and unless the Legislature set to work thoroughly to
eradicate that grievance, they would never be able to put
down the incipientinsurrection that was threatened in Ire-
land. The cry in Ireland was "Ireland for the Irish," the
meaning of which was that Ireland should exist for the
Irish, and that the produce of the land should be applied
for the benefit of the Irish people. No one could doubt
the evils of the law as it at present existed in
Ireland, where the clearance of estates was so much
in the power of the landlords. He believed that if some-
thing was done upon this subject the extent of disaffec-
tion would be greatly diminished. The Irish people
called upon Parliament to interfere with respect to the
present clearance system by the introduction of a
wLabniodblowrdasanodaleToleantaendt
tßoillp,roervebnyt some
coontsheeciraemoeeaessurtoe
which it gave rise. He contended that tenants were
entitled to the same protection of the law—to demand
compensation for the capital they had invested in their
tenant-right—as landlords were to claim the money they
had sunk in purchasing the fee simple of their property.
And if they introduced that principle into a Landlord
and Tenant Bill, and gave compensation for the money
he had laid out on the land, the evils attending the pre-
sent system would be got rid of. He did not propose to
bring forward any plan of his own of an original charac-
ter, but he submitted that the solution of the problem
could be easily discovered by a consideration of the au-
thorities contained in Earl Devon's report. At present
farmers in Ireland preferred placing their capital in the
savings' banks to investing it in any way in which the
prospect of a return was not so certain. If, therefore,
Parliament passed ,some measure to enable those people
to invest their capital so as to be productive, and gave
them some guarantee of a return, they would find that
Ireland had sufficient capital of its own.
Sir G. GREY said—ln all the speeches which had
been delivered in the course of the debate he was asto-
nished to see that a want of union existed as to the
adoption of any practical remedy for the evils of Ireland.
The Hon. Member (Mr. Osborne) had no right whatever
to tauntnmeecaessus t
necessary
measures
sy he Government
for
f o rI
tr
he
lea nmdatbecause indispensably
dsr
dpceeonresrace
and
for the safety of the lives of all loyal disposed persons
in that country.—(Hear, hear.) He readily admitted
that there were many political measures required for
Ireland, but he was prepared to deny that this was the
mb
oot.
os tr
eadvanthetageousb
etime s feo
if agitating p e
rt hs
ies
tquestionin n o
couldw
wouldat hailn ll
the arrival of
notbebegged
g leeda dt t
soaya t successful termination. min
however,
that time when some maturely-considered measure was
remedying introduced into the House forthe
evils of Ireland, and whether in office or o
office:he should concur in that measure if it was calculated
ateodf
to:accomplish the object. The Hon. Member (Hr.
Osborne) had recommended an universal system of
colonization, but the results of such a system were very
slow and gradual, and although now carried on to a
great extent the effects of it were scarcely per-
ceptible. Having stated that the Government
were prevented bringing forward any measures
for Ireland from the peculiar circumstances which
,now existed, he had no wish to go into detail as to the
censure which had been cast upon the Government
for. postponing them. The reason he had given might
be unsatisfactory, and he did not mean to say that the
Government were altogether blameless, and that some
degree of censure might not be applied to them. All
the Hon. Members who had spoken had recommended
that something should be done, but, no one had brought
forward any spegific plan. The Hon. Baronet then re-
ferred to measui% which had been alluded to for reco-
vering waste lands and for amending the law with
respect to the rights of landlords and tenants.
He believed that many of the evils of Ireland arose from
the nature of' the relations of land ; and he considered
that many of them could not be removed by legislation,
but by private individuals acting in their own localities
With respect to evictions, the extent to which the
practice had been carried be deeply regretted, and he
believed the Government had gone as far as they reason.
ably could. A Bill had been sent up from this to the
House of Lords which would still more secure the rights
of the tenants, and prevent the landlords from taking an
undue advantage of them.
R
thatMs Sir G.
GviS.c CtGfe
rt°tEeryn E explained
being tenants
saidsd es o u lcl be
whatehaentitled heto receive m e
antw
com-
pensationa s
tphr
oi v eodb
joefetth eoifr
the
introducing the Bill was to revent dwellings.persons from Government
ronabi
being
turned out of their homes, and being compelled to sleepg
under hedges.—(Hear.) The small subdivision of the
land in Ireland produced much of the poverty that existed
in Ireland, and he considered that capitalists in that
country would do a vast amount of good if they took
larger farms and employed persons at weekly wages'
Ile wished Irish Members would act more in unison with