The Sun.
London, England, 1848-03-03 00:00:00

Noble Lord had addressed to Princo Metternich had
been quoted on a recent occasion in the HouAe, and it,
would appear from that document that the Noble Lord
had protested as strongly against the interference o'
Austria in Italy.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of SURREY seconded the motion.
Viscount PALMERSTON—Sir, I am not aware that
I have any objection to make to the motion of the Hon.
Gentleman, but of course he will specify the extracts of
which he desires to have copies. I am sorry to say
that I must bear my testimony t. the accuracy of the
description which the Hon. Gentleman has given of
the present state of Greece, whether that testimony be
given with reference to the mode in which the financia
affairs of the country are regulared, or whether it be
offered with respect to the manner in which the con-
stitution has been worked, or whether it be even with
regard to the way in which the executive powers deal
with the people of the country. At present there is no abso-
lute necessity of speaking harshly in this House with re
gard to the administration of the affairs of other countries;
but, as the Hon. Gentleman has stated, this country
stands with respect to Greece in a position totally dif-
ferent from that in which she stands towards other
countries. We have not only rights, but obligations
and duties in respect to Greece, which do not apply to
countries in regard to which our position is altogether
indifferent.—(Hear, heard) England was one of the
three Powers which, by their interposition between
Turkey and Greece, finally accomplished the indepen-
dence of the Greek nation, and the erection
°f Greece into a separate kingdom. England
also was one of the Powers to whom was
given the choice of choosing a Sovereign to reign
,Over Greece; and England was one of the three Powers
by whose representatives was drawn up the proclamation
announcing to the Greeks the selection of their Sove-
reign, and giving a pledge that that Sovereign should
give to the Greek nation a constitutional system of 'Geo-
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) We, therefore, do stand in
the position of parties who have undertaken certain
obligations towards the people of Greece; and those
obligations—as far as properly lies in our power—l am
ready to we are bound in honour to see carried out.
--(Hear, hear.) There are questions connected with the
present motion which would make me averse to enter into
any discussion of the matter, or go into the details which
the Hon. Gentleman has touched upon; I, therefore,
shall only say that if he so shape his motion as to specify
annie particular periods, and the copies and extracts
which he chooses to produce, I can make no objection to
it; or, perhaps, he might withdraw his present motion,
and then show me the motion as he would wish it to
stand. We may settle it together, and I shall be happy
to give him any information which it would be useful for
the House to have laid before it.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. COCHRANE accepted the suggestion, and
withdrew his motion.
THE NRW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.

Sir R.WGLIS, in moving for the appointment of a
Select Committee to inquire into the present state of the
new Houses of Parliament, entered at some length into
treview of the animadversions which had fallen from
Bon. Members on several occasions relative to the
excess of expenditure which had occurred over the
original estimate. He entered into details to show that
the excess had arisen from outlays which were not anti-
cipated at the time the original estimate was decided
!Pon, and contended that no party could be blamed for
having incurred the expense in question. The outlay
could not be prevented, and ought to have formed part
of the original estimate. He thought that Hon. Members,
in their anxiety to find fault, bad overlooked the cir-
cumstance that, in addition to giving employment to
industrious and ingenious artisans and artists, a consi-
derable part of the expense was returned in the shape
of duties paid upon certain portions of the materials.
It had been calculated that not less than 35 per
cent. of the outlay required in building a house was ab.
Sorbed in duties. If, therefore, lion. Gentlemen would
take that circumstance into account, they would find that
deduction to some extent ought in fairness to be made
from the sum expended on the works of the new Houses
of Parliament. He thought that much exaggeration had
prevailed on the subject of that expense. The point at
issue was not so much whether the original estimate had
not been exceeded, but whether the excess was not fairly,
and necessarily, and unavoidably incurred. He was not
one of those who blindly idolised the talents of the great
architect employed. Many members of the Committee
knew that he (Sir R. Inglis) held a very qualified opinion
With regard to the perfect propriety of all that Mr.
Barry had done, although he never doubted his extra-
ordinary talents and skill. Language had been used of
Mr. Barry, in respect of this great work, which, he was
sure, none of his friends could wish should have been un-
employed, inasmuch as it had produced a revulsion in
his favour. In conclusion. however, he hoped that, if
this Committee should bo appointed, its results
would not be so unsatisfactory as former proceedings
in connexion with this question seem to have been. The
yori. Baronet then moved for the appointment of a " Se-
lect Committee on the present state of the new Palace at
Westminster, with a view to the reception and accom-
rnodation of this House therein, and the probable expense
of its completion ; and also to inquire into the present
state of Westminster-bridge ; the Committee to consist
of Sir R. H. Inglis, Viscount Morpeth, Sir Robert Peel,
Earliof Lincoln, Mr. Herries, Mr. Cardwell, Mr. Ste-
phenson, Mr. Wilson Patten, Mr. Hume, Lord E. Bruce,
Mr. Deering, Mr. Stafford, Mr. Tufnell, and Mr. Evelyn
Denison."
The motion having been seconded,
Mr. OSBORNE rose to move. as an amendment, an
address to the Crown, " praying her Majesty to appoint
Commissioners to superintend the expenditure of the
amount voted by this House for the new Houses of Par-
liament, with a view to make such arrangements as shall
complete the building at the earliest period." His object
in moving this amendment was not founded in any dis-
respect for the Honourable Baronet, Mr. Barry, or any
one else, but in the principle that that House was the
guardian of the public purse.—(Hear, hear.) When he
bad last referred to this subject, the Noble Lord who
replied to him spoke in a manner which seemed to
infer' that this new building was necessarily a great
stork, because it contained upwards of six hundred
rooms, and covered such a large space of ground ;
but it was no answer to himself or to the House of
Commons, who desired to know who was the responsible
officer to control the enormous expense connected with
this building, to say that the building itself was a great
work, and that Mr. Barry was a great architect.—(Hear,
hear.) There appeared to have been no control exer-
cised either over the architect or the expenditure. The
Reuretary of the Admiralty had taunted that House, the
ether night, with always allowing a great expenditure
in regard to the navy ; and he (Mr. Osborne) called
upon them not to allow the same taunt to be hereafter
applied to them in regard to this question of the new
}louses of Parliament. One reason for his amendment
wee, that he found that there had never been any com-
mittee on this subject that had not, instead of diminish-
-41, added to the expense of the building. Tho com-
mittee of 1836 increased the charge by some 60,0001.
or 80,0001. for putting in all those statutes of monarchs
they now saw there, but which would not be dis-
tinguishable in two years hence. He had himself
dabbled a little in architecture, and it was his opinion,
and esa in which he was fortified by others, that
the design was being frittered away in details, and that
in the end it would be a little better than a large metro-
Pelitan asylum for birds' nests and soot.—(Hear.) In
1841, too, what was called a Fine Arts Committee was
appointed, which had been the cause of other great
expenses. Against certain acts of that Committee, the
very artists themselves had petitioned the House of
Lords—that gorgeous gothic gewgaw, which no one
would have the hardihood to assert was adapted to the
purposes of a deliberative assembly.—(Hear.) The
on. Gentleman then referred to the expense of the
building of the new Houses, and said that, according to
the return which had been laid on the table, the original
estimate, which was between 700,0001. and 800,0001.,
had been largely exceeded, and that the money already
!pent had amounted to I,ol6,oool.—(Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Gentleman then called attention to the report o, a
Committee appointed in 1828, on the motion of Sir. H.
Parnell, on the subject of Parliamentary Committees,
which stated that the Committee could not help re-
Marking that it was most desirable that Parlia-
ment should at once establish a more permanent and
Perfect system of revision. This was the advice a Com-
mittee gave in 1828, nearly twenty years ago. W,hy
had it not been acted upon ? The building would have
been much better attended to ; indeed, in his opinion,
the whole of the business of the House was done by
about thirty Members, and the rest might very well be
discharged.—(A laugh.) The report added that changes
in the directing body always created expense—(Cheers)
—besides which he had strong authority in thus moving
for the appointment of a Commission. Sir Robert Peel
was of this opinion, as was shown by the questions he
put to the Commission of 1836. He then asked, "If it
had ever occurred to the Commissioners whether they
could not make arrangements for the completion of the
new Houses of Parliament ; awl whether, for that pur-
pose, it would not be better to appoint permanently some
Board or persons to attend to it." The answer was "Yes
the expenses are increased by an inefficient control of the
executive." Sir Robert Peel added, I think so too ;"
and however they might differ from the Right
lion- Baronet on many points, he was the first ad-
,Nipistrator in this country, and that answer ought to
inut:oe every Member in the House to second him (Mr.
OsborniN to obtain this commission. Neither did he
Want •
or a p. t
recedent, for a simila
nr s
amt Windsor comission was
pointed to to atteZtl o the alteratio Castle;
and as there were n complaints made, he presumed it
answered well, and the expenditure was kept within the
estimates.— Cheers. ifov different was the case in
12,1Pect to the new Houses of Ilerliament! Why, people
"o were well acquainted with the subject, said we
Should not get out of that place for less than 4,000,0001.
would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer where
the money was to come from? Did the Right Hon.
tentleman mean to take that too out of the balances in
`the Exchequer?—(Cheers, and laughter.) If the House
obi
f ,ec ted to his proposition, they had better at once
-°"ow the recent example of the Government, and dele-
pto their functions to a Select Committee. If the House
did not choose thus to neglect its duty, it would agree
With him in moving " An address, praying her Majesty
t° appoint Commissioners to superintend the expendi-
ture of the amount voted by this House for the new
sOases of Parliament. with a view to make such arrange-
as shall complete the building at the earliest
Period
~,
alo tuey
Lord MORITTH did not oppose the motion from any
„e
of the functions of the Board of Woods and
orests. That department had endeavoured to discharge
1,14 duties faithfully, but it was sometimes expected that
the Commissioners were to fulfil all the duties which de-
volved upon a Minister of Works. He was himself
ettli°d upon to give opinions on matters which required
fue education sometimes of a land steward, of a practical
jrn?er, an architect, an inspector of mines, a valuer of
"Ether, and a practical engineer. He felt that the de-
portment was not sufficiently organised to discharge all
duties which would properly devolve upon a regularly
constituted office of works. But neither this depart-