The Sun.
London, England, 1846-07-17 00:00:00

that large scheme of Parliamentary reform, although I
did not express myself as opposed to the expression of
my Noble Friends. I never said that the whole of the
Reform Bill was perfect or practical in all its parts. I
said I could not be held to any particular scheme of re-
presentation. I said that the people of England differed
from me ; they might wish to have a new Reform Bill ;
they might wish to have household or universal suffrage ;
they might wish to have triennial Parliaments or annual
Parliaments. If that is the case, I think it far better
that that scheme should be brought forward by some
persons who think that scheme will be beneficial, and
not by me, who made no declaration on that subject.
Sir, with regard to that subject, I am of the same mind
still. lam for improvement. lam for any improvement
that can be made. lam for an improvement with regard
to such subjects, but as to intending to bring forward
any new scheme of Parliamentary representation, and of
intrielueing either household suffrage, or what I believe
my I lon. Friend favours—the five points of. the Charter
—(Laughter)--I will give no such declaration.—(Elear,
hear.) If I lose my lion. Friend's confidence, I am
sorry for it, but if he brings forward the five points of
the Charter, I shall think it my duty to give my decided
opposition to such a measure.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE—The extension of the franchise
—not the five points.e-(Laughter.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—But my Hon. Friend says
he has alluded simply to the extension of the franchise;
but such a motion he once brought forward, founded
upon a petition called the Charter—(Hear, hear)—a
petition most numerously signed; but that was a specific
petition, which, I believe, he brought forward, mai of
which-ha was the advocate. .M.to the extension of the
suffrage, that was ostensibly my Hon. Friend's proposi-
tion on that eueject, but 1 know whet. it is that he pro-
poses under this very vague and inch fi Lite phrase—fer it
Is a very vague and intik fiaite phrase
Mr. DUNs:OeIBE—The extension of the franchise!
—(Laughter.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—It is a very vane and in-
definite phrase—(Continued laughter)—and while 6 I my-
self, at the time that I made those declarations upon
whieh I was so much attacked, did state that
there were certain matters upon which I
thought it consistent with the Reform Bill
that other reforms might be introduced. Ido not
say whether those schemes were wise ur not, but I was
quite opposed to any new scheme of' sepresentation
which was directly oppos dto the Reform Bi 1, Sir, I
must confess myself anxious that my Honourable
Friend may take that declaration. If he looks to the
great measures that have been under the consideration
of Parliament—whether you speak of the Reform Act
of Lord Grey—whether you speak of the Roman
Catholic Relief Act—whether you speak of the repeal of
the corn-laws which has only pa-sed the other day—
whether it is wise in this House, and whether it is wise
in Parliament to rest satisfied with the settlement which
has: been made after long deliberation by Parliament—
(Hear, bear) —that there is not a gain to be acquired
by the people equivalent to thv stirring up of agitation,
the consequences of any revival of a subject which has.
been seettled after great consideration. And now, Sir,
with respect to the factory question. I have already
stated whit I think on that subject. I have given my
vote in favour of the shortening of the hours of labour.
I stated, I believe, on the last discussion on that sub-
ject, that I should be in favour of shortening the time of
labour in factories to eleven hours a day by law.
—(Hear, hear.) Sir, if that measure was intro-
duced again, I should give my vote in con-
formity with the votes that I have previously
given.—(Hear, hear.) My Right Hon. Friend the Se-
cretary of State fer the Home Department (Sir G. Grey)
is, I believe, of the same opinion. Every statement I
have ever heard from him agrees with my opinion on
that subject.—(Hear, hear.) My Right Hon. Friend
who sits near me, the Chief Secretary for Ireland (51r.
Labouchere), has studied this subject likewise, and he
has studied it very attentively.—(Bear, hear.) He has
formed a deliberate and conscientious opinion that such
a law would be injurious.—(Hear, hear) I do think
that an Administration can be carried on usefully with
regard to the general interests of the country—usefully
with regard to the many topics an Adndnistration has to
deal with, although every member of it does not hold
identical views on even- question—(Hear, hear.) I
mean to give my vote in favour of such a Bill, if intro.
timed. I shall not expect my Right Hon. Friend who
sits near me, or others who differ from me, to vote with
me on that subject.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I have new
stated what are my opinions with regard to the questions
that the lion. Gentleman the Member for Finsbury ad-
verted to. He has mixed a great deal of pleasantries
with those questions, in which I certainly hive been un-
able to follow him. I consider that I have undertaken
a very grave and deep respoesib. ity,—(Hear, hear.) I
consider that I was bound, not being able tom he no me
mind that the Vrotectien of Life 13111, introduced by the
fete Govereinent, would be efficient for its purpose, or
that it would contribute to the protection of' li.e in Ireland—
I felt myself compelled, being asked whether I would
agree to that Bill, to answer "no " upon the second
reading of that Bill. I was compelledto deCiAR One way
or the other upon that subject. It was brought forward
by the late Government. They considered it was their
duty to bring it forward. I could not avoid my duty.
in terming an opinien upon it, and I oppsed it eee.iird-
ingly, to the best of my ability. Well, Sir, the Bight
Hen. Gentleman at the head of the Government resigned;
and after havi.•g given that vote—after being a party to
that opposition—her Majesty called upon me to endeavouv
to form a Government in the place of that which had re-
signed their power into her Majesty's hands ; and I con-
ceive that it was my duty to endeavour to see if, in con-
junction with others, we could carry on the public mea•
cures for the benefit of the country. Oa Monday next
I shall have an opportunity of stating to this House the
measure that we propose to introduce with ri specs to a
very important subject—that measure that is founded
upon the opinions which I have stated from 1841 to this
time—upon the subject of free trade or the subject of re-
strictive duties. It will be for the House to consider
whether that measure is suited to the interests of the
country.--(Hear.) It will be for this House to con-
sider whether there are any reasons which will induce
them
_ to withhold their approbation from that measure.
Bat this I am determined upon, that I will act as I have
ever considered it my duty to do • awl this I say with-
out wishing to give the least offence, but I must
inplainly and decidedly, that I will act'
aecording tot stahye principles that I have professed—(Hear, hear)—at.cord-
g to the. principles upen which I actea when I sat on
the opposite side of the Hume--upon which alone I could
consent to take office in the present situation of affairs.
I am dote rained, whether I sit on this side of the House
or upon the other, to act according to those principles
which I think most for the benefit of the country. I have
not sat for more than thirty 'ear
House, proclaiming and declaring)- sas a Member of this
almost every
occasion,
thatthey my jo ons
secret
to now ne be a secret
to the House.—(Hear, hear.) They are principles, as I
th nk, feuding to increase the commerce and set free the
Y
induttry of teis couatr
,promoting a union not merely
by a legislative Act, but a union of heart and affections
between this country and Ireland. Hear hear.) They
are opinions which, as I think, tend to' promote the
maintenance and stiffening of
lib. rty, ehich, together with its ptiecip es of religious
as c(ivfil ;liberty, have made
this ceuntr, conspicuous
of the el' th. —(Leu,l and pro.traetktde IhiTse4rstei..n,siniantut'hnes midst of which the Noble Lord resntnedc
Mr. t)6I.IOItNE, said that althea, h he did not
participate itt the opinions of the tion.,ttrithl- Member
wilt) had pwt, these tr estiotts to her Ma' t)'
Government. Y,t, in his Opinion, the Ilei.s., the
c
ountry owed him great obligations for being the instru
•
went of obtaining from the Noble Lord at the bead of
the Government a declaration as to the policy which he
meant to pursue,--(hear, hear.) '1 he Nob'. Lord had
made nsiale deeittrations as to his policy. ILW these
declarations would ba received in and out of that [louse
be was not mewed to state ; but he must dietiectly tell
the Noble Lord this, that if those declarations had been
made when he sat on the oppsit:; side of the House, the
party who had retained their seats' du that (the Minis-
terial) side of the House, would have preferred the Rig ht
lion. Baronet whom he had supplanted.—(Hear, hear.)
(11r. Osborne) for lsis own part, did not see the diffe-
rence between the "tweeille-dum " and tweodle .dee."
Thr; Noble Lord had arl, " I will rot touf.:ll the Irish
Church until the pressur-e from .;titlite/t eoloPels
(Cries of " Bear, hear,' aryl " Well, then,
why did not the Noble toedboldly
conic lonian' and
styli
sa that he intended to retie, tit.: ee under
ch the Oman intended to t ataoh 'cs of Ireland laboured? Ihe
Irish Chureb, as it at present existed, he considered to
be a monstrous din race to this cou.y.—(Efear. h.)
Wae, the appropriatioa clauagotrntr the lie
nto broughtear for-
ward? What was the meausieng Noble Loid pro-
posing to giett office to three gentlemen of the late
Government? If be believed in the prudence and talent
of the late Government why did he not take office under
the late Prime Minister? It appeared that the country
'wits na'relY to expect a code of sahitary regulations.
(Laughter.) The Noble Lord had in his opinion done
well in keeping the repeaters out of orrice, but he
thought that he had
sot acted in a very honest way with
regard to Ireland, for he had appointed to office gentle •
men who had given to the Irish Coercion Bin their
vordral suppurt.—(llear hear
Tiles LORI) LIErIia'NACY OF IRELAND.
HUME said with respect to the notice which
wished to ask the
stood in his name en the
el'3.,rinegL)rrdwitir,d any mea-
Noble Lord if he intendedpt?
Lieutenant of
sure on the subject of the offiee of
Ireland. Considering, as he dirl, that ottetole
steps of improving the social condition of the the
ptfier"
that Pee(ointroy,t
Ireland would be a complete union with
and the abolition of such useless and expensive offices as
Lord Lieutenant and all the subordinate otHces ; be•
Erring that Ireland had a right to be governed on the
wise principles by which England and Scotland were
governed, he thought one of the first steps towards
uniting that country would be a complete abolition of
the office in question. lie had long maintained a
arcing opinion--and that opinion had been justified by
many,of the first Irishmen that he had had the honour
of being acquainted with—that the continuance of the
''.office of Lord Lieutenant made Dublin the Castle of
faction—(Lsughter)—and did more mischief, and pro-
duced more differences in that country than any other
lime. He had before submitted- this questou to the
consideration of a former Government, and he totted a
eery strong opinion at that nine prevailing that that
Ace could not long continue. He had given notice of
/tinging the same subject now before the Hone. but
Jur the declaration of the Noble Lord he should he
unwilling for the present to give the House any trouble,
ming anxious to give the Nuble Lord full time to con-
' .ider the question ; and he would, therefore, with the
*mission of the House, ..vithdraw the subject, which
sae to the effect that an address be pr s•: rated to tier
dajeety, praying her to take into consid •ration the pro-
liety or unoii4lsing• the office of Lord Lieutenant of
relate!, and all the Fuhorainate offices, as that step
,ould go a gr,,a, way towards co eipleting the union
weea the two count ies. He, !lit-ir,?t!..:-e, wished to know
loom the Noble Lord whether he was prepared. to take.
jib subject into conai!lerati9ii ?
ki=d joLley .
SVUe.i 1141der tOW' WV 417.6