The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-16 00:00:00

BANGOR AND ST. ASAPII.

Mr. BORROUG HES presented a petition against the
union of the zees of Bangor and St. Asaph:__

TEN HOURS LABOUR BILL.

Mr. T. S. DUNCOAIBE presented two petitions, very nu-
merously and respectably signed, in favour of the restriction of
labour to ten hours.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.

Mr. PIERCE BUTLER gave notice that on Thursday
next he should move for the appointment of a Select Com-
mittee to inquire into the right of the House to en-
force the attendance of its Members on Committees, and
into its authority for inflicting the punishment of im-
prisonment for non-attendance. Further to inquire how
far such practice was sanctioned by the law of the land, and
how far the usage was in accordance therewith.
POOR-LAW.

Mr. P. SCROPE gave notice of his intention on a future
day to move for leave to bring in a Bill to extend to Ireland
the present poor:law of England.

POOR-LAW IMPROVEMENT BILL.

Captain PECHELL wished to know if the Right Hen.
Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department had dropped
his design of carrying on the Poor-law Improvement Bill?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM had no such intention, bat the
business of the House had rendered it necessary, for the sake
of public convenience, to postpone its consideration for the
present. It was understood that after the Corn-law Bill had
been read a third time the Factory Bill should be brought
under discussion. He believed this was stated in the House
last night, and that it was in accordance with the general
feeling of the Members then present; he hoped, therefore, that
the Hon. and Gallant Officer would not press for the reading
of the Bill of which he had spoken, but would accede to the
arrangement which had been entered into on this business.
After a few words from Mr. VERIION SMITH thts sub-
ject dropped.
RAILWAYS DISSOLUTION BILL.

Mr. LABOUCHERE said there was another Bill which
had been read a second time, and on which it had been ar-
ranged that the discussion on the motion for going into com-
mittee should take place—he meant the Railways Dissolution
Bill. He trusted no time would be lost in allowing the House
the opportunity of expressing its opinion on the measure.
Sir R. PEEL said it was important that the sense of the
House should be taken on the Bill at the earliest day, so that
the measure might be proceeded with. He should do all he
could to facilitate that object.
EAST INDIA COMPANY..—ANNUITIES TO LORD
HARDINGE AND LORD GOUGH.

Mr. HOGG rose to ask leave to introduce two Bills to au-
thorise the East India Company to grant annuities of 5,0001.
and 2,000/. per annum respectively to Lord Hardinge and
Lord Gough, for their recent brilliant services in the
East Indies. He hoped no obstable would be placed in the
way of forwarding those measures.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that, so far from offering any ob-
stacle in the way of their progress, he would do everything in
his power to hasten them forward.
Mr. HUME wished to know when an opportunity would be
given of discussing the merits of the Bills for granting l'ensions
to Lords Hardinge and Gough, because it might happen
that those Bills might pass at a late period of the
night, without an opportunity being afforded of discussing
them at all. He wished to have an opportunity of
making some remarks respecting them, because he had an ob-
jection to grant pensions to pers ;ns whose de cendants were
unable to maintain the dignity of the profession, and because
the time had come when they ought to require her Majesty not
to grant peerages which must be kept up at the expense of the
country. With all due deference to the House, he
must say that he thought this plan of granting
peerages for two or three lives, and then leaving
those upon whom the honour had descended destitute,
was a reprehensible practice, and ought at ence to be abrogated.
In the case of Lord Hardinge, for instance, the honour con-
ferred upon him would not last longer than the ordinary dura-
tion of two lives, because he was advanced in years. He urged
the same arguments several years ago, in the case of Lord
Keane, but he was opposed to the House, and was there-
fore unsuccessful. He repeated that he considered the
time had arrived when the Government ought to
consider whether it was politic to grant titles when
there was no property to maintain it, for wherever this was
done they had the Peer and his family quartered upon the
public—( Great laughter)—and there was no getting a
head of him or his progeny for generations.—( Roars of
laughter.) He did not wish to particularise individuals,
but, if they created an aristocracy, it ought not to be main-
tained by the public purse.—( Hear, hear.) It was true the
customs of the country precluded them from following any
avocation by which they could maintain themselves, but it did
not preclude them from having families.--( Continued
laughter.) He was willing to discuss the question during
the present debate, but as the Bill had passed, it would be un-
necessary for him to do so ; but he thought it was really a
question for the House to take up—whether, when futui e
peerages were conferred on individuals who had not the power of
supporting them, and which would consequently have to be
supported at the expense of the country, it would be politic to
grant them. It was the system he complained of, and not
the individuals. He hoped, however, that the House would
have an opportunity of discussing the Bills in the daylight.
Sir ROBERT PEEL spoke a few words in reply to what
had fallen from the Hon. Member for Montrose, but in so low
a tone of voice as to be quite inaudible in the gallery. The
Right Hon. Baronet, however, was understood to say that it
was rather hard for the Hou. Member to predict
that the life of Lord Gough was not worth a months'
purchase. It was not the fault of Government that Bills of
this nature had not been brought on till a late hour of the
night.—( Hear, hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. CARDWELL moved that. the House, at its rising, do
adjourn till Monday next.—Agreed to.
Mr. T. S. DUN COMBE, seeing the Honourable Gentle-
man the Secretary for the Treasury, he wished to ask him a
question with reference to the Post. office abuses he had lately
brought under the consideration of the House. He had been
given to understand that the speech he made on a recent
occasion had leen placed in the hands of Mr. Pea-
cock, the Solicitor to the Post-office, to inquire
into the charges which it contained, notwithstanding it had
been stated that they were groundless. He wished to know,
then, whether his information was correct or not. He under-
stood, also, that some of the letter-carriers were taken before
Mr. Peacock to be examined touching those charges,
but, upon asking for a pledge to be held harmless if
they proved them, it was refused.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
The inquiry was one which ought to be condncted in such a
manner as to give satisfaction to the public. He wished,
therefore, to know whether the Honourable Gentleman would
have any objectiion to produce the evidence which was taken,
and to inform the House of the result of that inquiry.
Mr. CARDWELL would confine himself to an explanation
of the course which had been pursued under the circumstances
referred to by the Hon. Gentleman. The Postmaster-General,
being desirous to have a full investigation into the whole quea-
ion connected with the sub-sorters, considered it judicious
that the inquiry should be conducted by gentlemen who were
not connected with the Post-office department, andce thereforeoe
he appointed the solicitor con-
ddeupcatrtteenitn,vanestligahteionin.speActt:orosffttthltreheePlertetPesrid-ect-naortffiroiefrst hwte
elrnel aanpd-
pwoiitnnteesdecsonj
objectingoihim,nlytwtiothbe
examb uint
eidn
ic.nonstheteluepnrecseeonfeeonoef otfhtelsiee
two gentlemen, the solicitor afterwards conducted the exami-
nation alone; it must be obvious, therefore, to the Hon. Gen-
tleman that he (Mr. Cardwell) could give no further infor-
mation upon the subject until the report of the inquiry was
made.
T. DUNCOMBE said that he would move that a copy
of that report should be laid upon the table.
Mr. CARDWELL would have no objection.
VALUATION OF IRELAND.
Sir DENHAAI NORRIS asked the Noble Lord the Secre-
tary for Ireland, if the Government proposed to bring in a Bill
this session relative to the valuation of land in Ireland?
Lord LINCOLN said that it was proposed to bring in a Bill
on that subject, which would be the same in substance as that
introduced last year ; but in the present state of public busi-
ness he could not pledge himself at what period he would be
enabled to introduce it.

Sir D. NORREYS wished to know whether the Noble
Lord was aware that all valuations which at present took place
in Ireland were illegal.
Lord LINCOLN said that he was aware of the fact, and a
Bill would be introduced this session to remedy the evil.
It was then agreed that the House at its rising do adjourn to
Monday next.
CORN BILL—ADJOURNED DEBATE.

The adjourned debate upon the Corn Bill was resumed by
Mr. COLQUHOUN. who addressed the House amidst much
confusion. He said that argument Ilium this subject
had been exhausted. He was however fearful that the Bill
would pass notwithstanding. The Noble Lord the Alember
for Lynn had asked the Right Hon. Baronet a question with
respect to certain returns from the Customs. That ques-
tion had been answered by the Right Honourable Baronet.
He thought that he might remind the Right Hon. Baronet
that he had declared, in his opinion, the price of wheat would
not exceed 355. per quarter.
Sir ROBERT PEEL dissented from this declaration.

Mr. COLHUHOUN did not wish to misinterpret the
eyasmouusstforremadinvodeahtiinhrg,
tßhiagththellhonad. Baronet,3 buetneheof cehriteainrl
eecror n
duties, dutieswothatnotth e pbrei c er
eedfuwe
ehde wheat, l
owwh ad-
matedc3nss.
the
refer also to the admission made to
thei quarter.
o c.b the
fanetgme
libienerl the
doubted. The declaration was made in reference to the year
for Leeds, by whom this declaration had been
1835, when wheat was not more than from 395. to 40s. a
quarter.
and I stated that, with
fall from
rom 8 ifro rR LondonPEEL
w—h what "labselaisekveedd
if foreign corn were admitted duty free, .
k'd ' ,
by
wouldte
beNoble
the
pri Lordee thee
t. Mem-
ber.wheat
tahneuenxrpeestrrieicuteeedotfradlBe3sin,
tchoernt,thledp,irdteenootf twhilineat,
wyueugldm
be-
low 355. a quarter.—( Hear, hear. )
did then in effect tally with
e," of wheat under a system of
fall below 33s , it would
unrestricted import, would n
what Mr.
h e Ch
°I
had stated—thatQ U HOUN—trThleiipsri
would net be less than 30s. a quarter.
now appear that the Rightot Honourable .Baarnodnet hoped
eperpsruiacdeed that if this statement of the prices that
wldathsensue from the repeal of the corn-laws was correct, that
shock would be given
betueonndaelrbly
tthhseusehlmawanufsc-
tawHhoeautgreat
turing, commercial, and agricultural interests of the
country.—(
atioeuatr,
thheearp.r)ieesltof had been
the present state of the country had been created, but they esouwghhitch,toif
hreear realised, would lead to a
generalwere
Theyhop
place in 1835, what had been referred to byb theby w
Righthat
lti
00
0n
k.
LI
Wilson,a
Mr. r o n e tc, t
oh aeßn
Chairman
hEtahNi
re
mwa
ha s historyoft
understoodh ofe
Ahti which. cto
thate;, given
mbry.
1.1111ri..
00
rh
1:3.3.dyi ,
son referred to was not the Chairmao of the League,
aw vague.
Mr. COLQUIMUN—Then ila was one who had
sub-
ject. Mr. Wilson said that the effect oth some con-
nexion with that body, and whc, was to give
the
n)roepeein9iodziluon thei Is 16131)5-
was to give a fal,e direction to capital, and togsioncreas.e
manufacturing products in such a ratio as to glut the
market, and to produce the disastrous state of things that
followed. The proceedings (11835, and the years that imme-
diately preceded and followed, were years of speculation and fic-
titious trailing, inevitably producing the general stagnation that
took place in 1841. The Right Hon. Baronetand the Right Hon.
Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade had stated
that prices will not fall if this measure is carried, and the
Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary for the Home
Department said there wuuln be no great fall in prices. He
further said he inspoceed tint *ors would be groat

steadiness in it. He (Mr. Colquhoun) was satis-
fied, however, that if he could not convince
the Right lion. Gentlemen of the fallacy of this expectation,
he would be able to satisfy the House that there was no hope
whatever of the rate of prices being such as they expected,
Just let them look at the aesumntion of those who held the
argument that the repeal of the corn-laws would lead to a
regular supply of wheat, and to unvarying prices. They stated
that after the repeal of the corn-laws, trade, in all its branches,
would be regulated ; th it there would be an average supply of
corn, and an average demand for it. Let them assume that
their in ports of grain amounted to any quantity they pleased.
The average amount was rather more than one million of quar-
ters. Let them assume that they would have only three or
four millions of quarters, for at whatever quantity they put it
it would not affect the argument. Assume that they brought in
four millions of quarters; that he thought the most sanguine
advocate of free-trade would not question. Now the average
production of wheat in this city was sixteen millions of quar-
ters, to which they had to add four millions of quarters, mak-
ing together a regular supply of twenty millions of quarters.
A most eminent statist, Mr. Tooke, stated that the harvest
of 1834 was in excess over the ordinary harvests of this country
to the extent of one-fourth ; and he also stated that that was
the cause of the low prices of 1835. The same thing was
stated with respect to 1838, that they had an harvest
similarly iu success. They thus had an increase in these
years of five millions, making the supply twenty-five,
instead of twenty millions. Then during these years,
other corn-growing countries had a similar excess.
Thus they would have more to send to this country at periods
when, owing to the excess, it was not required. Now he would
ask mercantile men and those engaged in trade, whether the
effect of that would not be to depress prices most enormously ?
( Hear, hear.) If the same excess occurred in 1854, prices would
be reduced to the lowest degree here and all along the Baltic.
And what would happen? The same as happened in 1844
agriculturlists would restrict the supply in consequence of
low prices, and, as in 1838, the prices would run up enorm-
ously ; so that there would be no stability of prices or supply
if the corn-laws were repealed.—( Hear, Bear.) They would
have enormous oscillations—high prices at one time, and low
prices at another—the one ruinous to the farmer, and the other
to the labourer; ruinous, too, in one instance to the
manufacturers, for as the price of corn rose in
this country the home market of the manufacturer
gradually decreased. He perfectly agreed with the Right
lion. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury, that they ought
to endeavour to secure the wages of the labourer from varia-
tions in amount—but he contended, that after they repealed
the corn-laws the wages of the labourer would remain still
unsettled. They would be subject to the same fluctuation in
prices, and liable to the srme vicissitudes of fortune. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Bath, had re-
marked,with his usual aeuteness, that it would be useless to repeal
the corn-laws for the benefit of the labouring part of the com-
munity, without they paid the same attention to the improve-
ment of their habits. Unless thry did so, the condition of the
people would still remain the same. The agriculture of this
country had improved more than that of any other country in
the world, with the exception of Belgium. The fact was, they
fed a larger number of people on the square mile than that of
any other country, with the exception he had men-
tioned. In France they had 150 persons to the square
mile, but in England there wet e '230. In France fourteen
bushels to the acre was the minimum of the produce ; in Eng-
land it was 28 The prices of meat and grain had steadily
fallen, considering the improvements that had been made, and
the extent of the increase in population. If it was con-
sidered necessary to make a change, that change surely could
be made without the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Minister
of the Crown, attempting to malign that interest with which
he had been so long connected. It was said that, under the
operation of the principles of free trade, agriculture would
make a spring, and receive a great stimulus. Would the
House permit him to detain it for a few minutes while he
called their attention to facts, and he had no doubt they would
he able to form a more sober estimate of the consequences.
Since 1815, the time of the war, population had greatly in-
creased. There were 8.000,000 of an increase, and there was
not less than 64,000,000 of an increase in the produce. The
colonial trade had doubled in amount since the war, and what
would be the effect of this measure on the colonial trade? Did
the manufacturers expect to keep the colonial trade in its pre-
sent position ? They had at present from seven to fifteen per
cent. protecting duty in the West Indies and in the North
American colonies. Did the Hon. Member for Stockport
expect to obtain that protection after the Bill passed? Already
the manufacturers were sufferingfrom competition in the Brazils,
and what weuld be their qate when they lost the manufactures?
The Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had ridiculed his
Noble Friend for stating that the exports to the colonies were
3,000,000 per annum, from which this country obtained no
benefit. Why, he would remind that Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, that the house of Brucanon, in New York, was esta-
blished for the express purpose of receiving British manufac-
tures, for obtaining the drawback, and then passing them
across the borders. When the Canadas became an integral
part of the United States, as from the intercourse caused
by the effects of the measure, they were very likely to become,
th A Hon. and Learned Gentleman would find that his antici-
pations of the results were not at all likely to be realised. But
it was very possible that the matter might be exaggerated by
both sides of the House, by the fears of one side and the hopes
of the other. Yet, however this might be, the political effects c f
the measure would not so speedily subside. It had the effect of
breaking up the combination which had so long existed be-
tween the party with whom he acted and their
leaders. He did not wish to make any personal attack
on the Right Honourable Gentleman, but he felt
it right to state that he believed that combination
would never again be renewed. Neither did he think it de-
sirable, for the sake either of public men or the character and
the interests of the conntry at large, that it should be renewed.
—(Hear, hear.) He had in his own hum'ile capacity followed
the Right Hon. Gentleman with a deep admiration of his
talents, and now, when that combination was about to be
broken, he viewed him, as he believed the country did, with
sensations of the deep
taehtsett h gRr eigt
honesty.h—t
O(7H. enhai rsl3,
amhreoeaturi
ev.
te),s
btaelePnetrsmiatntedd wtoithsaayllth
blemishes in his public character and opinions which Hihhtheeadahlmoltpub;ii
he would pardon him (Mr. Colquhoun) referring to, as very
injurious to a public man. His defects were, having no faith
in his own principles, and exhibiting great fear of his own
opinions. He appeared like a mariner at sea with a bad cargo
that he had borne a long distance, but the safety of which he
10A all confidence in on the first indication of a storm. At the
first approach of an autumn storm he threw overboard
at once the whole cargo of his life. —( Hear, hear.)
How long the opinions which the Right Hon. Baronet had
lately taken up in his mind, it was impossible to say ; but he
defied any man who had watched vigilantly, as the conduct of
political men ought to be watched, the conduct of the Right
Hon. Baronet, to say that there was one principle he now main-
tained which he would not abandon during a period of popular
excitement,—( Cheers.) He did not mean to say that he had
political confidence in the Noble Lord opposite ; he had a great
admiration for character and talents, but he must pardon him if
he said that his (Mr. Colquhoun's) Hon. Friends and himself,
would not form a portion of any party he might lead.---( Hear.)
He was very courageous and gallant, because he had cheered
that Noble Lord in stormy times, when his party was in dangers
most vociferously, when the faintest hearts would have
despaired. —( Cheers. ) And if he served under the Noble Lord,
whose chivalry he admired, he should feel exactly as he remem-
bered he once felt at Calais, storm bound, and when he wished
to return from the continent, being impatient to reach his own.
soil. He remembered pressing a weather-beaten captain to go
to sea, who said, " You are a landsman, and like all landsmen,
ignorant ; this is a storm in which it would not be safe to leave
the land." Now the Noble Lord went out of harbour at a pe-
riod when he might have been of service to the constitution.
Now the duty of himself and his Hon. Friends would be better
done should they take their stand with the Nobolfecaltohpredsi,lratfgeourlyn_si:
would place them in a better position. It would be, perhaps,
a matter of difficulty to bring tbem.elves to such a course, but
he would rather encounter that difficultly and danger than to
continuebet where,
e wihee an
orders et aohrefe
ytph—we
were
rhee camp—they
leaders,bh
oaudth
to
oaerrde
meetssopmi
ktehet
edh something
He
me
yf
it, for one,
...
that the sooner they left such a camp the, better. _(Hoerr
hear.) Better leave it than have their principles lost by acting
with those whom they had been willing to follow, but with
whom they could not now agree. The Hon. Member for
Stockport had turned his guns against that side of the House;
he turned the skeleton of the League against them.
An HONOURABLE MEMBER—The ghost.
Mr. COLQUHOUN —Well then, the ghost it bad had
more effect, and it was much stronger than the skeleton. The
Hon. Member had fought his battle with great ability, and
with so much judgment, as to call forth tue
compliment of the Noble Lord. (Hear, hear.
The opportunity would soon be given to them to meet the
principles of Hon. Members opposite. He was sure they
would be met with courage, and he hoped with success. If
they were worsted, and he thought it likely they would be,
they would still have to guard some of the great institutions of
the country against the attacks of Hon. Members opposite;
and his lion. Friends would thus have to fight another gallants
and he trusted in the end, successful war. He quite a&
mitted that the present excitement was in favour of Govern-
ment, but he thought it would soon pass away, when the
hopes of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, would be found not to be
realised, and the promises which they had made to the mer-
chant, the manufacturer, and the labourer, not fulfilled.
Merchants would not have had that increase of trade which
lion. Members told them they might expect. Manufacturers
would not have had that development for their manufactures
which they had been taught to expect ; while the labourers
would not have experienced that rise in their wages which
they had been led to expect. When all the hopes, which
lion. Members bad held out to the people, and by which this
n
measure
aha
,(11
the 'been carried,
delusion b
shouldiown
away,ha e been proved to be
sieges},
then they the protec-
tionist party would appeal to the
simple question—who in the hour ofpeo 'pleriesfisEanngdladniffid,cultywe
with this
andth eiros3unbstralent friends.—(Cheers. fait_hlefscshceoeurnsse)llors, and who their humble
Mr. WOOD had expressed, on various occasions, to his
laws which ime
posed taxes on the food for the people was both inexpedien
constituents, his
•
o.tirsiaja low tariff
and unjust. lie would call the atention of the House to the
opinion that
ninaotnnniynoatfrsoyedsotureenme of.
fact that during the last few years there had been a most ex-
traordinary importation of foreign corn at low duties co-ordi-
nate with a most extraordinary importation of bullion. The
comparative statementr of
atll oe,rn,
drain
corresponding
insndpbt
etlouenonmi
taoi
wheatinnni
ga. tthat
hit niveaeaenin(mnittiftadiebv,
importation
Licdl
atd
INll,tioatwso
aoedt
icueocsut
with-
outinvt
ny
would most certainly have the effect
ml a :se wouldlera raise
su pp tyh eo
of
amountffood.
o f • e of
that the repeal of the corn-
laws it
aeges to the labourer, bus,
rethe
peal of the corn-laws would
pated, of hinderinogntlreprogres—sivee nocfrease creatinga nd ai
mpr greater
with
tahgriculture.
The average of
If wages had been proportionate id havetl dtihde noteffe
ctw anticipatehi c
h w a tshaant t
priceo oul do
fh
cornav ebeexe owcretolenktr.ary, free trade would be attendede;
beneficial effects on the entire system of agricYtteluitne
wages in the year 1835 was about Bs. a week'
they
'onate to the price of corn,
What influence then did the
enrt"opsn the amount of wages ? None whatever,
and therefore any apprehension of a diminution in the amount
,
of wages was ill-grounded, and had no substantial basis. The
Honourable Gentleman then entered init.) an elaborattet
disquisition on the influence which the /nice of corn 11;a
on the reward of, labour, and the proportion wh,f.„
the price of corn bore to the amount of wilg—e
He would assume that the amount of wages which a labourek,
and his family received during the year 1835 was le per viezes„
or 52/. per year. They would consume on the average us,
quarters of wheat during the. year, which would cost lad
that there would remain ss balance of 421. to be expende
house rent, clothes, and other necessaries. In 1839, however,
eve
the amount of wages fell to 391. a-year, and the price ottne h.,_
quarters of wheat was 17/. 10s., so that the labourer's fa
instead of having a balance of 421. to spend in house rent
other necessaries, had a balance of 22/. 10s. to provide th
eN-
selvel with everything. The corn-laws had the tendencys_es,
bring about this state of things, and eventually would
in reducing the labourer to starvation and a state of paugeerer
He entreated the landlords in that House to consider vir, t''„,„
that distress and suffering, whose existence they so much
al",,
mented, was not occasioned by their previous legislationm,
by those laws which had hitherto so largely tended to augment
their rent-rolls? Ile, as a landlord, was prepared to moan',
every sacrifice in favour of a measure which, in his est imati
was calculated to do so much good for the people ; and he,..t
this
one, therefore intended to support the third reading of in
Bill.—( Hear, hear. ) to
Mr. P. BENNET considered that if the House poz.ea....
this law, they would be committing an act of the gross:6%l;a
justice to the agricultural interest.—( hear, hear.) 11 0,
saavassed a good many agrietlturists upost this Vie" "'

both landlords, farmers, tenants, and labourers, and they all pay to their labourers.-(Laughter.) He would not, at that
agreed with him in believing the price of food in this country late hour, enter into any statistical details on this question,
regulated wages. Well, then, if they admitted wheat into and the only reason why he voted on it was because of very
this country, which, comparatively speaking, cost little or general reasons, which after all were the best ones. He
nothing in its production, would it not reduce the income of could not believe that a country like this, so fruitful in itself,
the farmer, and the wages of the labourer ?-( Hear, hear.) would not be improved in its agriculture, when farmers were
Most assuredly it would, or how would the British agricultu- thrown upon their own resources, and when science was
rist be able to compete with the foreigner, who had so many brought to bear upon and to assist in this desired object It
advantages in his favour. In some parts of the country, Cam- was to be remembered that agriculture, and the science which
bridge for instance, the labour was paid according to the was so intimately connected with it, was yet in its infancy.
price of wheat, and whenever that commodity ruse or fell in It might be urged againt this measure, that small farmers might
price, the wages of the labourer rose and fell in corresponding argue, that they had keen encouraged in the cultivation of land,
ratio. -( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had a'gued which would'otherwiee be uncultivated, by the system of pro-
that the reverse was the case, but he could assure the Right tection which had been afforded, and that they would suffer
Hon. Baronet that he was mistaken. ruin if such protection were withdrawn. He doubted whether,
Sir R. PEEL explained, that when he said wages did not under such circumstances, it would not have been preferable to
vary in the same ratio as the price of wheat, his statement ate. impose a small duty upon corn, and he was surprised that the
plied to particular cot:Plies, of which he gave examples. He Right Hon. Baronet, whose fame rested principally upon his
certainly did argue, he admitted, that the wages of the menu- financial abilities, should have risked the revenue which he had
feat', ing labourer varied in an inverse ratio with the price of raised, apparently for no specific object. He considered that
wheat.-( Hear, hear.) this Bill ought to have been tried in a time of prosperity, such
Mr. HUDSON-After listening most attentively to the as the year before, instead of, as now, forcing the measure
arguments and statements on both sides of this question, he under the fear of famine. The Right Hon. Gentleman had
was bound to tell the House and the country, that his views not given the friends who sat behind him the advantage of the
upon it had undergone no change.-(Near, hear.) He arguments, and if he was succeeding now, his success would
agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet, that wages did not vary appear to be owing to means which he ought not to have used ;
in the same ratio as the price of wheat. Labour, like every and if he failed, as he sincerely trusted he would not, his failure
other article of commerce, was liable to competition, and would be attributed to dissensions in this House arising from
whenever there were large importations of wheat from abroad his own policy, and to the opposition of another portion of the
it caused great depression amongst the agricultural interest, Legislature.
and a consequent overflow of labour in the market.-( Hear, Sir. DISRAELI said, that the Secretary of State, its the
hear.) When the agricultural interest flourished, the manu- speech which be had made on the first night of the discussion,
facture thrived, and the question for them to consider was, had reminded
.Hon._Gentlemen sitting on those benches, and
would this improve or injure the condition of the swim'. professing opinions favourable to native industry, that they had
turist. In his opinion it certainly would, for how, in the found it necessary to depart from many of the opinions which
name of all that was reasonable, could the British farmer corn- they had previously' erofeased, and to give up many of the
pete with the foreigner who paid less for his land, dogmas which they had formerly maintained. He acknow-
less for his labour. and possessed considerably more leged that he believed it to he a necessary result of all discus-
natural advantages. - (Hear, hear.) In his opinion sions, that either party took refuge in the pride which pro-
then the only tendency of this measure would be to throw land fessed that it never was convinced-( Hear, hear)-that it never
out of cultivation, and gradually depreciate its value, and he changed its opinion on a single topic in the debate. He did
for one could not sanction it with his vote. They were asked not claim for himself, and he believed that he need not
by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State, what were claim for any of the Gentlemen around him, such power of
the opinions of Earl Fitzwilliam, the Earl of Derby, and seve- argument, such force of reasoning, as to convince their oppo-
ral other noblemen of distinction, upon this question. But the Dents ; and, while be listened with great respect to
Right Hon. Baronet forgot that these noblemen were possessed everything urged on the other side, he never ad-
of immense incomes, and could afford to submit to the charge. vanced or maintained any opinion when he found that
Let him ask though what would become of the small land- that such was no longer tenable. Bat he thought he could
holder, and the tenant farmer, who had no incomes but what show the Secretary of State that this faculty of maintaining
they derived from their labour and their land ? What were an opinion was not peculiar to their party. He rather
they to do, who had invested their small capital in the cultiva• imagined that many of the opinions advocated by Hon. Gen-
tion of land, on the faith of the existing law being continued? tlemen opposite were now abandoned, as no longer tenable. He
-( Hear, hear.) It was very well for men who held large and could not avoid remembering many of these opinions which
boundless tracts of land, to acquiesce in the passing of this Bill, were no longer put forward. He might begin with cheap
but there were hundreds of others not quite so well off, who bread.-(Cheers,) They had had the Ministers of the Crown
deserved the consideration and protection of the House. even in this very year, even in this important session, they had
They were now about to enter into a great speculation, with- the Ministers of the Crown describing the cry of cheap bread
out any of those wounds which always guided men of business as the clamour of a dying faction.-( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
in their speculations. It was one of the wildest schemes that There was another opinion now given up. He did not
could possibly be conceived.-( Hear, hear.) He had not believe that it was longer maintained that the present
much time, in consequence of the press of other business, to corn-laws were productive of any extraordinary fluctua-
read the details of these measures ; but he would use the rea• tion in prices, yet that cry occasioned great agitation
son which God had given him upon the subject, in the best It was asserted that this same corn-law was -the bane of agri-
manner that he could. The country was in the most flourish- culture, and yet it had never been shown that it had occasioned
ing state, and there never was a time when this country was so serious fluctuations in the price of wheat. 'f hen with respect
well supplied with all the necessaries of life as it was at the pre- to tithes. They had the evidence of the very best valuers of
sent time.-( Hear, hear.) They were told of the paucity o tithes in the Tithe Commission-they had the evidence of
corn abroad, but he believed that before this measure land agents in all parts of the country, that every acre generally
received the royal assent, if it ever did-(Loud cheers)--that in England produced 28 bushels of wheat upon an average :
there would be at least two millions and a half of quarters of and they had reports to show that each acre in Russia produced
corn imported into this country. They had been blamed for 16 bushels, and France produced only 15. But he had also the
delaying this measure; he did not, however, think that that report of a gentleman well acquainted with agriculture, who
delay had been productive of any evil to the country_at least had travelled over the United States, and from the returns fur-
not to the farmer-for if one million of quarters had been let niched of 69 counties, he found that only 14 bushels were cal-
Into the country, the prices to the farmer would have been culated to each acre. It did appear therefore to him, that
considerably reduced. The revenue would be greatly bene- protection was not injurious to agriculture, since
fited by this delay-it would, probably, receive 600,0001. in England they found that the average quantity
more than if the measure had been passed in a hurried and a reaped from each acre exceeded in a considerable
hasty manner through Parliament. If they were to take degree the other countris aof Europe. It had also been an-
away all protection from the farmers they ought to be set upon flounced that the population of the country increased in a
a footing with the manufacturers and millowners-( Hear, greater ratio then its products ; that every day added 1000
hear)-and be enabled to compete with foreign souls to the population, or 365 000 in each year. But they
countries. The announcement of the present measure had caused should have told them also that the price of wheat decreased ie
considerable stagnation in the monetary concerns of this the same proportion. But there was another opinion which
country.-( Hear, hear.) It was not to be surprised that it struck him as being repeatedly advanced in that House, he
should have done so, for the banker would not advance money meant the opinion that a protective duty provoked the enacting
upon farm property when required to do so, because he did not of hostile tariffs. But they were independent of these hostile
know the effect which the Government measure would have in influences, at least the new philosophy was altogether inde-
depreciating the value of such property. -(Hear, hear) pendent of these considerations.-( Cheers. ) Another argu-
Some demur had been made to a statement which he made went now abandoned was this, that freight itself would be a
some time since of the price of wheat. Considerable communi- sufficient protection to the home grower. The Honourable
cation had taken place. upon the subject between himself and Gentleman the Member for Stockport, whose speeches he (Mr.
the farmers, and the general opinion of that body was that the Diraeli)always read with great pleasure, and it was but fair that
Rouse, not being aware of the accuracy of his statements, were he should refer to these out-door speeches when they created
legislating in the dark upon the subject of the corn-laws. such a change in doors.-( Hear, hear.) What did the Hen.
( The Hon. Member then read a letter from a farmer in the Member for Stockport say the protecting freight would be?
East Riding of Yorkshire with reference to the prices and qua- 10s. 6d. He believed that if that statement had been made a
lities of wheat and potatoes in the market, and which went on year ago, it would have been universally believed-it would
to say that instead of there being a famine in May, they would have met with the hearty cheers of Hon. Members. Was it
Need other markets to take off their produce.) The writer of believed now ? He ( Mr. Disraeli) doubted if there was ant
tin'e letter stated that he vas surprised that his statement that freight of 10s.-he doubted if the freight from Odessa was
the price of wheat had been as low as 255. should have been re- I Os. They knew well that it was as expensive to freight grain
ceived ;with so much surprise, for he had himself purchased from one port of Britain to another as from a foreign port.-
great quantities at from 18s. to 20s. The Hon. Member then (Cheers.) But it was necessary that he should touch upon an
went on to say that he thought some means should be devised other topic, one now exploded, namely, that the present corn-
by which a man who occupied a farm of 3001. a-year should be laws produced a fluctuation in the price of grain. They were,
relieved from paying 751. a-year in the shape of poor and high- by thus noticing those matters, clearing the course, and he
wa
He thought it would be some satisfaction to those could, without hesitation, affirm that there was less fluctuation
who
y rates.
acted with him, that they were not provisional committee- in the price of grain in England than in any country in the
men on this Bill-(Cheers and laughter)-and they would not, world.-( Cheers.) Mr. Secretary Gladstone had moved for a
therefore, be subject to the liabilities which attached to provi- return most important in character, and more important from
sional committee-men.-( Cheers.) the persons introducing it to the House. That was a return ex-
The Marquis of WORCESTER in opening his speech took tending from 1834 to 1840 inclusive, of the weekly prices
occasion to allude to the exaggerated accounts of the distress of wheat in all the principal capitals of the United States.
in Ireland. He held letters in his hand, which stated that Now he would take one of these capitals, which would be
three or four cargoes of potatoes had been this week shipped worst for the case espoused by that party against a majority
from that country. He also referred to the injury occasioned 4 that House. He would take Philadelphia, the capital of
to the farmer by the introduction of live stock into the country; Pennsylvania. It was a great mercantile
arket, and had the
700 beasts and 590 sheep had been imported into this country great advantage of rejoicing in the economy of free trade.-
.last week. The Noble Lord read letters which he received (Haar, hear.) Now he found that, as regarded fluctuation,
from several tenant-farmers on the subject of the proposed the total difference between the highest and the lowest
alterations. They were unanimous in condemning these ; and prices was as forty-seven per cent. in the United States.
one writer went on to say that if the two right Hon. Baronets, and 33 per cent. in England.-(Cheers.) And the total dif-
who were the authors of the measure, had been present at ference in the septennial period was 270 per cent. in America,
Cirencester the last market day, they would have while it was only 227 in England. An objection might be
beard their names uttered with curses.-(Laughter.) urged against this return of Mr. Gladstone's, that it gave the
The tenant-farmers were completely opposed to the measure, weekly returns, and that local circumstances might eon-
and many Members of that House would, he was sure, agree siderably affect them. But he held also in his hand a return
with him that such was the fact.-( Hear, hear.) He thanked from the years 1830 to 1838, and' he found that the
the House for the kindness with which they had heard him, difference in this period, from the highest to
and he would conclude by expressing his determination to give the lowest price, was as 150 to 69 per cent.-( Cheers. )
the Bill his most decided opposition in every stage. He bad taken Philadelphia as the nearest point for themselves,
Mr. MONTAGUE GORE would, with the permission of and the other capitals of America were, therefore, more favour-
the House, occupy its attention for a short time, while he able to the argument he was advancing. The Hon. Member
made a few' observations on this important question. He then referred to rye as sold at Warsaw and Dantzic, showing
diffs' red very much from the Gentleman who had spoken as to that in the former city, where the free-trade system prevailed,
the e-s Teets which might be anticipated from the importation of the difference between the highest and lowest price was in five
foreign corn on the agriculture of this country. He would years 149 per cent., while in the latter city, where a protection
take the liberty of reading some documents which would place duty was maintained, the fluctuation in price in the
this matter beyond question. The Hon. Member then read a same period was only sixty-nine per cent. He thought
letter from a
tenant-farmer
witht
strong prepossessions in favour of protection, against a protective system, no longer tenable in that House.
butlme emee
who had been there only a short time when his opinions They ought to have a " limbo " for the reception of disused
underwent a complete alteration. This change was the cense.. political arguments, and he should propose that those he had
qu ce of what he SAW, and the conviction that the agricultu- enumerated be placed there among the first. He would defy
risetsnof this country had nothing to fear from the absence of their opponents to show that they on the protection benches
all protection to agriculture. A letter which he had received had changed their opinions so frequently as Honourable
from a gentleman in the City, and which he would Members on the Opposition side of the House, who
read, proved that no apprehension might be entertained supported this measure of the Government.-( Hear, hear. )
from the importations from America. The Hon. Gentleman A very celebrated authority, who was once a Member of that
then read a statement of the number of barrels of flour im- House, had declared that raising cern to an artificial price im-
ported, for a period of years, from America, and also a num- posed a tat upon the people of this country amounting to
her of returns, stating the quantity of corn which might be 20,000,0001. Another and ano less celebrated, though a
expected from Dantzic and other places, and the price which more successful, authority, and who, he believed, was con-
it would cost. He then went on to say that, considering all sidered the authority of the Anti-Corn-law League, had fallen
these circumstances, no prejudicial results would take place, if foul of this calculation, because the calculation had omitted
protection were abolished. No doubt this was a measure the number of quarters of wheat consumed by the agricultural
Vittich, would effectoome very great changes, and, like all great body, all of which it was contended ought not to have been
meesures, some individual cases of evil would result frem it; employed in ascertaining the amount of the corn-law tax.
but as a great general measure it would be produetive of much This latter authority estimated the tax at from 9,000,0001. to
public good; and, he had no doubt, it would most ma- 10,000,0001., and urged the principle that it was better
terially benefit the agriculturists.-( Hear, hear.) But for England not to raise a quarter of grain than incur the
p
while he supported this measure he should express a liability of paying this tax. He admitted that this was the
hope that other measures would also be introduced which extreme case, but in adopting it he was only testing
would also benefit the agriculturists of the country; and, above the principle of the free-trade party. Now, suppose England,
all, he hoped that this measure, as one which would confer by importing 90,000,000 of quarters of grain from abroad saved
great benefit upon Ireland, would receive the cordial co- from 10,000,0001. to 20,000,000/., it could not be denied that
-operation of the majority of the House. He did believe that England by doing so lost considerably more than they saved in
few measures could be introduced which, coupled with a mea- the shape of wages. She would also lose the profits of the ca-
sure affecting the tenant right in Ireland, could be more bene-
tahat this pital invested in the production of that amount of corn, as well
Sficial to the country. He should conclude
haenend
tn t conducted b y
s saying
i ITas the rent which had accrued from the land upon which the
discussion had, in his opin_ion,
highly corn had been grown. But it might be said that he was urging
eiseditable manner to this N
he Nouosbele Lord thee country,fifeinl forand if it the case in an extreme point of view ; but it was impossible for
had' been introduced byhim to test the principle without adopting an extreme point of
supportedt it just as cordially as he did now. hes wouldview. The Honourable Member for Stockport, ,
have
arguments of •
for considering
a practical man, would probably deny the •
Mr. L Bath, and those of a great many other-
St_WSON said, he had listened to the '
necessity
the Hon..for and against the measure considering the case in this extreme point of view,
Member for
• • because the Hon. Member and his party did not suppose that
a land would be thrown out of cultivation. There would be a
Hon. Memb'vrs who hads
pHonourable Members say that it was
oken
He had heard Some nugatory that it was of no importance reduction of • butthe 1
measure so illusewy end If he could believe this argu- prices, and could not be entirely thrown
or not. out of cultivation. Well, then, take it uponthis
whether it was passed . .
vote against it ; but he could not ground,
went, he would ssertainti .
e all he had heard from the Hen. there would still be a diminution of labour nd a reduction of
wages. The Hon. Member for Stockport had been extremely
credit such a proposition aft.
r did not think, that from what frank in • • ble • and he giving the House his estimate of what the price of
Member for Barnstes ,
resided, that the measure corn would be after the passing
.of this Act, and he thought if
he knew of the district in which he
r and the agriculturist. he could show that this
would equally benefit. the manufacture
with which he was what would be the price price, high as it was as compared with
He found in that part of the country
ee; to the measure
to the British producer, he would be '
demonstrating the inutility
most familiar a perfect unanimity with r
They greed in the
sP
all a as well the .
al ruinous tendency of this measure. He would
introduced by her Majesty's Ministers.
t native industrY• meet the arguments of Hon. Gentlemen opposite with facts,
He that protection ought to be afforded.
.0 f
between but he protested against being answered with '
assertions. He
He had, himself, thehonour of presentingpetitiona rom
represented, and this would not weary the House by mentioning those large pro-
-50 to 60 townships- in the neighbourhood he
h• lte d •
withwhichll Members have
d for rising at tis a during countries,
was the only excuses e put forwer
notice ofmade too familiar in the
course of the present session, but he
d obtruding himself upon the n
period of the debate,
A think it would be an act of justice to
l:
those he represented .if
this important clues would call the attention of the House to markets thatnever were
the House. He did nt..
e
were contented with giving a silent mentioned, which would have a great influence in regulating
vote on
tion. One of the objections the prices of this country. There was, in the first place,
which he bad to the passing
of this measure Hungary, which he need not remind the House, consisted of
at the present time was, that the
Hon. Member 360,000 square miles-it contained the richest soil hi the
of wheat was world, in fact its soil was that of a garden-they might go
who introduced it had not states what the price
from mile to mile without meeting a single stone. Well, here
ia. ht from
expected to be. He hoped, therefore, to hear that .ig
had
until theythee they
the Hon. Baronet his expected price, because,
fertile soil in the world, under the influence of a climate
Now, as to the de- the most
such, they were legislating in the dark.
admirablyadapted for the growth of corn. Now he had
pendency of this country on foreign nations, it had been almost
.most
returns from a party well informed on the sub-
byridiculed in this House that they should adopt the doctrine that lately received
whichgave him the prices of corn in
this measure they should be dependent on foreign nations ject of the corn trade, _
__ .
corn, which he
of Hungarian ,
for the supplies of footle, He owned that in this error, if error Hungary. The average price .
the world, was 18s.
it was, he cordially i - thought that this depen- must remind the House was the finest in
dente would be most se and he
Id occur. The per bushel. They might send it overland to the port of Trieste
next point to which hesausibly felt if a war should
o
f the House for 4cl per English bushel, and thence to this country for
wouldwi direct the attention n
h Bd., that Hungarian wheat could be sold in this country
was with regard to those dhe thoug t Is. so
that any change of opin.ionniwnerenuw in officef, a
that line of for 20s. per bushel. The gentleman who gave him
policy which they had ado pled throughouti) 1 men, from
whole lives, was this information was a practical man trading at Trieste,
in itself very detrimental te the public their
f hetold him that if he could only secure a regular
who
had a predilections in favour of thismeasure,interests, and even
d send in the first year 500,000 yet, knowing the trade with England, an
quar-
inconsistency of those who now brought another house would undertake to bring into any
it forward, he should tars while
hesitate before he acceded to. .a principle which was c. contrary ' 200,000 quarters at 28s. the bushel. ; and an-
to all those they had formerly avowed. If this sParlia ent English port
were ready, if this measure passed, to
other house in
were dissolved, as he hoped it would be before this meam Galicia
free on board at 18s. He would
were passed-if it was so diss'olved, and the constituencysure
had deliver 1,000,000 quarters
not mention
the markets of Spain, of Egypt,
and of Sicily,
which determined that the Bill be pass,ede then it would be their duty,effect upon the prices in this coun-
as a minority, to accede to that' measure. He would not would have a great e
he demand for corn would in-
allow that this measure would proatece cheap bread. He ad- try. But it was argued that t .
ntries He would apply
witted, indeed, that at first it would produce a ruinously chea crease its price in the producing cou •
large consumption in this
food, but that would not continue peeneanently. A great cep this principle to other former
bad articles. of _
On a
had been made of famine in Ireland, net the scarcity of porn_ occasion
country, and see whether it was sound or not.
occasion he alluded tea, but said then his
toes had .been urged as a reason why they should
Bill. He could inform the House therefore
statements had been contradicted, and it would be
pass the Corn necessary for him to ustif them. In le3l, the price of a
selling in York: at two
that potatoes were . shillings pound of congou tea was 2 tyd in • while in London he himself paid fifteen shillings I . s. 2., while 1846, it was only 9d.
per bushel,n 1832, it was os• I Id• •• 1 • 't
Potatoes were sent up to Lon, at fifty shillings ~,„! 1.. Pd. ;in -1835, •s in 833, it was Is. 11d. ;in 1834, 1
per sack. it was Is. 4d. ; in 1836, it was Is. 21-
yet
no one would buy them, and tl xey were obliged to io 1837, the
per ton, China war having commenced, the price
be taken back again. One would naturally*
imagine that no
again rose to 21. sd. ; it continued
ly would exist in a city like London, but it appearedtheduring 1831 to rise
to 2s. 6d. ; in 1839 and 1840
monopoly
the price* went down
that there was an universal agreement to keep
uP(LauP bees,ter to Is. 4d. and Is. 3d. ; and flow • went
he
in order to compel the passing of this measure. - g , price was only 9d., 'and yet the supply d,
the
, t
and cries of " Oh, oh," from the Opposition.)ere, is. Gentle- increased millions
upon millions. an demand had
if they The next instance he should
men might cry " Oh, oh," but he considered that
and take was that of cotton. In 1836 the price was hid. ; •
granted this Bill they would be giving way to the Leal
- ‘gsuoer'r t . 1837 it was B}d. ; in 1838 it was Bd. ; in 1839 it was 61,1. in
encouraging geeater demands. He was exceeding y
n. vinyced in
nndlin 1840 and
andlB4l it was 6d. ; in 1842 and 1843 it was sd. ;
differ from the Right Hon. Baronet, but he was not csei
.1845 it was 4d. and 4id. Now, let him re-
inbe for • ithe
his own mind. ( Laughter)-that this measure woult
the goodof the .soun r , and, t y therefore, he could not give his this progressive decline in prices, the importation of cotton
support to the Affinisterial Bill.
into England had risen from 333,000,0001bs• to
at the aerie 507,000,0001b5. ; while the manufactures of the countrMr. VERNON SMITH was happy to see that
y
in"Y which dl distinguished either side of the House, had increased .
their consumption from 282 0 . • , 00,000Ibs. to
had usua y
question, but although 439,000,0001b5. Now this sufficiently illustrated the princi-
,, sank into a sort of apathy on this
to turn ple of prices when there was no artificial protection, There
`ll hadceased off d ' t each other it was only
to ,o el ;Limns
their .and her Ma- was no denying it ; the prices of all products, in the ab..
Baronet
Hon. jestreviii..peration sapon the Right
had • st sat ones of protection, had a downward tendency. He would
misters. The Hon. Ge, tie , man whojust
down should bring now take the ease ef sugar, which perhaps was not so applicable
, demanded that her Majesty's Ministers
41,,0r
theprinciple he was eoaabatting as the artieles he had
that they
the price .If wheat, after the passing of the measure- to
'`L4t bushels to be in- already enumerated. The price of Bengal sugar from 1839
du
should state the exact number of
,fro 1044 kid Mtn from 475, te Zl7l. per bag, white is the fins
period
Aeed) aad theN4maot wages they would sit any future ,