The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-22 00:00:00

tion was a great evil, but he had seen reason to modify his views, and '
to conclude that increased accommodation by railways developed
traffic and induced the public to travel to a greater extent ; so that
the evil apprehended was not such as he once thought it to be. He
had not read the i.pinion of the Board of Trade on the subject of com-
peting lines ; all he could say was, that there was traffic enough to sup-
port one line to Edinbugh and another to Glasgow, but with regard to
a third competing line by Nithsdale, he had not considered the
question. He did not know the capital that would be required for all
these lines. Ile only thought, generally, that one line to Glasgow,
and one to Edinburgh, wonld pay ; but whether two to Edinburgh,
and two to Glasgow, competing with each other, would pay, was a
subject he had nut considered. The present line went about
six miles through his property. Ths Caledonian branch did
not approach so near to Langton as the Carlisle and Hawiek, and
there was the river between them. He nad been told that the Cale-
donian branch Prom Langholm to Carlisle was 3% miles longer than
the North British Extension. lie had always thought tile Caledonian
line from Carlisle to Glasgow very desirable, and would prove of
rreat publio benefit. He had heard within the last month that the
Ilawiek line, in as entrance into Carlisle, crossed a thoroughfare in
an objectionable manner.
Mr. Laing, iactor of several estates in Roxbur,'hahire, deposed
as to the agricultural traffic of Roxburghsh.re. A large amount of
the proate•e went westward into Dumfriesshire. 't was generally
bought up by dealers, and a good deal of it went to the English
market. 11. s re urn of the grain, meal, and flour, that went west-
ward through slewick, was 4,711 tons.
Cross examined—Of the 4,714 tons, a considerable portion went
into Leddertlale. He could not say what towns in Dumfriesshire
were supplied with this produce, nor could he say who the parties
were that bought it. The Ledderdale district, he believed, was south
west of Hawick. He could not say that the district in question was
to the south east of Langholm.
To the C Hallows—He ascertained the quantity of grain he men •
Coned by communicating with the millers who attended the Hawick
market and examining their returns as far as he could obtain them.
Mr. Scott, cattle dealer of Renick, examined by Mr. Sergeant
BELL-tilts—He occupied a sheep farm of 1,000 acres in Roxburgh-
shire, also grazing farms in Itoss-shire. He was also tenant of
Arthur's seat near Edinburgh. It was his practice to breed kis sheep
on his northern farms and then bring them to the south for the purpose
of feeding and afterwards they were all sent taAunan, from whence they
were shipped to Liverpool. If sent by railway to Liverpool, they
world arrive much sooner, and in much better condition. He sent
about 4,000 sheep and 400 cattle to Liverpool annually. There were
other persons in Roxburghshire and Berwickshire engaged in a
similar occupation with his own. There were 450,000 to 500,000 lean
sheep annually sold at the fairs in Roxburghshiro, and he estimated
that fully three-fourths of that number were sent to England. There
were also 120,000 to 130,000 fat sheep annually sent to Newcastle.
The cost of sheep from Kelso to Annan was Is. a head, and from
Annan to Liverpool 25., being 3s. in all. Cattle cost to Annan Bs.,
and from thence to Liverpool 10s., being 18s. in all. He thought
about 15,000 fat sheep would go by this line through Carlisle, and
about 4,000 fat cattle. He could not say what would be the amount
of lean cattle that would go, but he considered a great amount
would go.
Cross•examined by Mr. RtoraaDs--He was the largest dealer in
the district. Liverpool and Newcastle were his principal markets,
but the proportions he sent to these places varied. The largest con-
sumption was at Newcastle. There was a great consumption also
in Leeds and the other towns of Yorkshire. A great proportion of
the stock that went to Liverpool was consumed at Manchester. If
',Nags remained as they were, and a direct line was formed from New-
eitatie to Manchester, no doubt a considerable amount of the stock
would go that way. It would, however, be a round about commu-
nieation. A very considerable portion of the lean stock of Rox-
;airghshire went to Skipton and the north of Yorkshire, and the
Newcastle route as far as he knew would be an accommodation to
hat 'raffle. What would go by this line, was in a great measure a
eatt et of guess.
Mr. Nelson, butcher, of Glasgow, deposed that the East and Mid-
Lothians were the best feeding districts in the south of Scotland.
Tkis district lay to the cast of Edinburgh, between Dalkeith and
Haddington, his evidence was generally that, from his experience

,f carrying cattle, the fat and lean stock from the Lothians would
go by the proposed railway. He thought a large traffic in fat cattle
Pmm the Lothians would take place along this line to supply the
Manchester, Liverpool, and Birmingham markets. There would
also, he n as persuaded, be a large trade in slaughtered meat.
Cross-examined —Probably a considerable amount of the cattle
l'rom Dalkeith and Tranent would go to Edinburgh and pass to the
south by the Caledonian Railway. There was little difference in the
two routes, aid therefore the Caledonian line would give accommo-
-lqiion to it a cattle of that neighbourhood without the construction
of the present line. From Tranent cattle going along the
iawiek line might save about five miles. With reference to the
shughteresl cattle, he gave evidence last year that the Caledonian
would be a convenient route for that meat going south. There were
a ~reat number of villages around Edinburgh engaged In slaughter-
n_, and by going into Edinburgh, the Caledonian would give them
oad southern amanmodation, The Fifeshire cattle would also be
accommodated by the Caledonian line. The traffic to the east of
•:ngland would be accommodated by the North British Railway. He
hrd not considered whether there would be traffic for the two rail-
, ays, though last year he had deposed that there was lot ro,,m for
he Caledonian and the Dumfries schemes, and he preferred the
former. _

Mr. Morton, mln;ag engineer, said he had examined the route of
the line in t o minerals, and he had visited the Canobie coal-
flat. It was a fruitful coal-field, three miles by two, containing 55
feet of workable coal in 10 seams. It had been but slightly worked.
The present seams workel mold be made available for a supply of
100,000 tons for 70 years. According to boring, the whole of the
proved seams would give a supply for 200 Sears. At present the
supply was 25,000 tans a year, at ss. 4d. at the pit's mouth. Of this
quantity Hawiek took about 7,000 tens a year. If the railway were
formed it could be tail down in Hawick at Os. Id. a ton. There was
also an extensive limestone bed worked near to Canobie. He bad
made a table whisk would be put in, of what would be the price of
coal at various points along the line assuming the carriage to be 11,4 el.
per ton per utile, coals from Mid-Lothian would cost at Hawick
!2s. sd.
Cross-examined—Last year he corroborated the evidence cf Mr.
Wright, which took credit for Hawick being supplied with coal from
Mid-Lothian. That was, he believed, a considerable item in the
estimates of the line from Edinburgh to Hawick. The coal sold at
the pit's mouth at Canobie was just as it came out of the mine,
insorted. With a lice fl om Canobie to Dumflies, mid another to
irawick, no doubt the price of the coal would rise. The present
price at Canobie wo uhl not, therefore, present what it would be
ander the other circumstances referred to. He could not say what
the Berwick coal could be supplied in Hayrick for. The entire con-
sumption of coal last year was 7,000 tons. When he talked of 7,000
tons going to Hawick from Canobie, he merely guessed the amount
to be such for the present year. (The witness was here subjected to
close scrutiny on the table he had furnished, with the object of
showing that the estimate of the coal traffic was greatly exaggerated).
Mr. Gibson, manager of the Canobie colliery,. generally corro-
borated the evidence of the previous witness with regard to the
ininerel traffic. Coals were taken to Hawick in carts, and provi-
sions brought back for Canobie. One hundred carts were thus
employed. The coal sold at the pit's mouth was unsorted and un-
riddled. just as it came to the pit's mouth. Coal had at one time

been shipped at Carlisle.
coal Cr°aast A.ennxaamnir bdu—t'irfht,h3 a•
tnpeavrterwhaas erdbheattdanyd a
aCarlisle it would be desirable fur that purpose. In making up
the traffic table he had taken all places oil each side of
the railway, that was seven miles beyond Canobie. Langholm was
sth, tie; )dmfeonr th
shippingof e
anb
than
i
Canobie
a market town about seven milesfrom Canobie, yet he had estimated
for all the coal to be consumed there. He had made no deduction
for the farmers coming to market with their carts and bringing coals.
He had not calculated how many of the places in the table would be
nearer by the turnpike road than by railway, or that were likely still
to cart their coals.
Mr. Wright, manager of the Dalkeith collieries, was examined in
corroboration of the foregoing witness He had assisted Mr. Morton
and Mr. Gibson in making up the tables submitted.
Cross-examined—He gave evidence last year to the effect that
llawick would be well supplied from the Mid Lothian coal-field, which
was a most extensive one. The country around Langholm was a
thinly populated country. He had estimated for Langholm and six
or seven miles round. He had also taken a circuit round llawick. The
country along the line was 'very thin till within three miles of
Hawick.
Mr. lienwick, a manufacturer and wool spinner at Langholm,was
generally examined, with the object of showing that the line in
question would be of great importance to his business in opening up
a connexion with the north and south. It would also be of consider-
able benefit to the town and neighbourhood.
Cross-examined—He was the only manufacturer of this particular
kind in Langholm, and he sent the most of his goods through Ilawick
to Glasgow. The steamers from Liverpool came to Anuan, because
they could not come up the eanal to Carlisle.
The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at twelve o'clock.

GROUP XIV.

The Select Committee appointed to consider the merits of the Bills
comprised in this group re-assembled at the usual hour this morning,
Mr. Protheroe in the Chair.

SOUTH-EASTERN (MID KENT).

The first business gone into this morning was the engineering evi-
dence in favour of the South-Eastern (Mid Kent) schemes.
Mr. Robert Stephenson, the chief engineer of the South Eastern
scheme was the first witness called. The Mid Kent line commenced
at a point en the existing Greenwich line, passed through
Lewisham, along by Bromley, through the Ravensford Valley,
and the Valley of the Mawlings on to Maidstone, and from
thence to Chart, near Ashford. There was a branch to
iverhead. and anther from Hytham to Tunbridge
where it joined the existing Tunbridge Wells branch and the Tun-
bridge and Hastings lines, which received the sanction of the Legis-
lature in the course of the present session. The length of rail to be
made would be about sixty miles in length. The scheme
would shorten the distance from London to Dover by thirteen
miles, from Lonon to Tunbridge by nine miles, and from Lon-
don to Maidstone (tile county town of Kent) by twenty miles.
The proposed line would avoid the existing New Cross station, which
was found at present to be very inconveniently situated. The steepest
gradieut on the line was 1 in 125 ; the others ranged from 300 to 268 ;
the first was about a mile and a half in length. There was a short
gradient at Lewisham of 1 in 146. The severest gradient on the at-
mospheric line for the same division of the country was 1 in 100 for
several miles. There was a tunnel between Bromley and
Farnborough, but it was not of an extensive character.
The works on his own line were decidedly superior
to the works on the atmospheric line. The atmospheric line ap-
proached nearer to eveneaks than his ewn, but it did so in a tunnel
of 2,717 yards in length, which was preceded by another tunnel of
300 yards long. There was perhaps a quarter of a mile between the
two. There was a gradient of lin 80 for three miles arid a half on
this part of the atmospheric line, and a descent of the.
same character going towards Tunbridge. The distance of
the branoh from Hytham to Tunbridge was eight miles and one-
' eighth. It passed through the Barket valley. a thickly.populated
district, fruitful in agriculture, hops, and fruit, and thickly studded
with paper and flour mills. The atmospheric line avoided this
valley and of course its advantages. The engineering features of
the line from Maidstone to Chart were exceedingly good,
and he had no doubt the line generally woald be of
great advantr ge to the public and continental travellers. In.
deed he might say it was precisely the route which
the South-Eastern line ought originally to have run. Ile believed
-eason it did not do so was the opposition the landholders of the
district originally evinced to a railway invading their property. In
the present session a line had beets passed running from Reading to
Reigate, forming ajunction between the South-Eastern and the South-
Western lines, and he had no doubt all the continental travellers
coming from the west of England would pass over the Reigate line
on to the South-Eastern and so on to the continent. In fact this
line formed the key to all the western traffic, directly connecting
Southampton, Oxford, Worcester, Wolverhampton, the North, and
bath, Bristol, and Exeter, with Dover and the continent. Ills esti-
mate for the line was 1,000,5001.
On cress-examination by Mr. Sergeant TALFOIAD, on behalf of the
atmospheric line, the witness stated that the South-Eastern Com-
pany were about wit:ening the existing Greenwich line for the Croydon
Atmospheric and proposed to lay down additional lines for the North
Kent line. For the increased traffic of the Croydon Atmospheric,
the North Kent and the Mid Kent lines, there would be three addi-
tional lines laid down at the London-bridge station and then there
would be seven lines of rails. There would be a saving on the at-
mospheric line over the South-Eastern of four miles between London
and Tunbridge.
On re-examination, Mr. Stephenson stated that the Croydon Com-
pany would have to contribute towards widening the Greenwich line
approaching to London-bridge. The saving of time by the at-
mospheric line between London anti Tunbridge would not be more
than seven or eight minutes.
Mr. Bidder corroborated the testimony of Mr. Stephenson. He
agreed with him in an the evidence he had given with reference to
the general features of the line.
Mr. J. Clutton, a land agent and surveyor, estimated the cost of
the land for the main line and branches at 236,5701.
This closed the case for the promoters.
Mr. M. DAWSON then addressed the committee on behalf of a land-
holder at Deptford. who complained that the line unnecessarily in-
vaded his property, inasmuch as the company might avoid the pro-
perty by availing themselves of the existing Croydon lisle.
The Committee then adjourned.

GROUP XVIII.
EXETER, YEOVIL, AND DORCHESTER,
LONDON, SALISBURY, AND YEOVIL.

The Committee met as usual .jr. D. Denison, chairman.
Mr. MIA/YARD stated, that in oonsequance of the intimation which
the Committee had given, he would endeavour to call as few wit-
nesses as were really necessary for the protection of his clients'
Interests.

be sorry to the latest day of his
material to the interests of their case. Ho
life if any intimation he had made
le
would prevent the Counsel calling any witness which they thought
coTinhine
let
tiel Ae IhßaktdAmN
ma
Seltetl te d
would th ant.
th
andotpheed
Caonuyn
sienit
al ms
tar talyo n.
will': col? tuhl de
was
House of Commons to judge of the merits of thelinese,nant td he
washreeby h
tdee-
termined to do his duty.
Mr. Morrison, M.P., was then called, who stated that on public as
well as local grounds he thought it necessary that there should be
another lino affording direct communication between Exeter and
London.
Mr. Head, residing at Seyton, was proceeding to give evidence of a
similar nature, when the Committee interfered, and ordered the room
to be cleared.

The parties having been called on.
The CuAmax announced that it wag the opinion of the Committee
that they had heard sufficient evidence as to the traffic of the line, and
desired the protwters to proceed at once with their engineering evi-
dence.
Mr. Locke. the engineer, being under examination in another Com-
mittee, and there being no' probability of his examination being con-
cluded to-day, the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP XX.
M 0
3413°N, ROUNSLOVJ' AND lATESTEIitN.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)E:
_Jyter the hearing of some further traffic evidence,
The Committee adjourned at an early hour till to-morrow.

GROUP XXII.
The CommitteeWit."V EN Ey VALMEY.
The witnesses examined to day give evidence of
met at the usual hour. Sir G. Grey, chairman.
which the line would
ptins ihro
f wtier which the
eon er upon the C
proposed railway multi ass. the advantages