The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-28 00:00:00

that this is the best time for the introdaction of this measure" Con-
sider all these thlngs—COhtider how long this law,Could have been
Maintained. it Might. be Maintained for a time, but it cannot lib
permanently secured with that degree of good feeling whip A so. w •
sential to a good Goircrnmentt , and 'tit could not; is inet the tirrie
most favourable for, the altelifien, The eidamitiei Of trblaiid Were
the pages of this,tileasAre, tilt the' Woiiiti not in themselves justify
the Alteration, orthe law.- It forces on you the necessity of consider-
ing what you will do When the period of suspension arrives. The
calamities I have spoken of would force that consideration
upon you. Now these are the . reasons I had :for the
alteration of the law, and for which, with a clear conscience, I have
encountered obloquy, and submitted to the lois of rein' betitideilU,
which I deeptylattlentt biit Which I must incur.—(Hear, hear; from
the Ptoteotionists.)--The Hon. Gentlenian has said that the proposal
Of thli measure was sortie, pdlitidal manittivEe. What object could I
haver—(Hear; heat; cepa thd OPposiVon.) 11 hat end cohild I arisivtf
by Making Snelt a prOoosiiio 1I this ? I Wished to, relkie a tktible
calamity. • nondurable Gentlenien have told me, with assurance,
that my stay in office, as a Minister, will not be long.—(Wear, hear,
from the Protectionists.) Well then, the more confident they
should feel that this is no political measure. (Immense
cheering from the. Opposition.) Honourable gentlemen_ ask
me how long I can cornt Oft hid support of the Hen. 'Gentlemen
eprosite lam ftank with you, as I have been on all otheroccasions.
—(" Oh, oh," from the protectionists, and loud cheers from the oppo-
sition.) I have no right to place any confidence in their support,
but it is by their agency this measure will most probably pass into a
law. It is not on personal, but ou public grounds, that I feel, as a
public man, the obligation I am under to those. Hon, Gentlemen for
their suppett of the present Measure. dlowever much I May be
indebted to them for not doing anything to embarrass the progress of
the present bill, I feel I have 'no right to claim their fliture
support. That question settled, the difference between us will,
remain the same as before. I freely • admit that I
cannot expect the support of those who now advocate
protection, after taking the course on the.present question which my
public duty has induced me to take. That connexion which has for-
merly existed is no doubt at an end, and I feel I have no right to
look for support from that quatter.—(iiear, hear.). Sill less have
I a right to expect to carry on the Government, and maintain my
present position, with the support of those Hon. Gentlemen who
have supported ins on this side of the House.—(Hqar, . hear.) This
being the •case, on any great measure of policy, I admit that
with the assistance of 112 Members, or one-sixth of the Members
of the House of Commons, I shall not be able to carry on the bu-
siness of the Government, and that it is right to suppose that my
p esent tenure of power is nearly at an end.—(Cheers from the pro•
tectionists.) Let this measure pass into a law—suspend your in-
dignation till then,. and I will ask you no further to follow me.—
(Hear, hear.) I shall then pursue my owu course, and it will be
for those Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House to decide
on theirs —(Hear, hear.) I hope they will permit this measure to
Ise passed at once, let the future be what it may.—(Hear, hear.)' I
deeply deplore the loss of confidence of those who have hitherto
been my supporter's.—(Hear, hear.) That affects me infinitely more
than the loss of political p .wer.—(Hear, hear.) Your accusations
affect me the less, because I feel that I am honest, and that my
Motfres are-pure.. Every man has within his own bosouithe scales
that determine the real weight of reproach that ought to attach to
hie conduct. •If I 'had acte,di.from corrupt or unworthy motives,
then one-tenth of the accusations against me would have proved
fatal to my existence as a public man. You may think that I took
too great precaution respecting the potato failure in Ireland, and that
events will prove that I was mistaken in supposing such precaution
to he necessary. But if so the motive—the saving of a whole people
from a dire calamity of a natural famine, will plead my excuse. I
Will not say that the measures I have proposed will save
that country from this calamity. I only speak of the motive.—
.

those burdens which press upon them. I have before me a
return of the expenditure of a labouring man in the receipt
of ten shillings a week in summer, and eight in winters
with a wife and one child. I leave Mit bread-
the following - articles etiteied into his weekly con-
sumption t-s-fotie gallons of beer, bacon, beef, butter,
'seine sugar, some tea, some soap, some candles. All
of- these articles, with the exception of candles sre taed in-
directly. We have reduced the.dety dti salt beef, and the duty
on butter and cheem. hiot. can you repent for having made
that redeetinn7-( Hear, hear.) ' The man died and left a
wido* and one child ; she earned 4s. 61 a week, the guardians
allowing Is. 6d. a week to her for a pensiOn. What was her oddly?
Rent, ls. 6d. ; candles and soap, 40.3 butter, 21d. ; tea,
lid. In that case, the soap was taxed, the butter was taxed,
the tea was taxed, and the sugar was taxed.-( Hear, hear.) I
will new take the wages of a Yorkshireman, living more com-
fortably. These were not fictitious cases." 'this man earned
fifteen or sixteen shillings a Week, -and he spent fourteen.
His expenditure was as follows :-There is beef, 2s. ' • sugar,
7d. ; grease, 3d. ; candles, 2d. ; butter, Bd.; soap, 3d. ; tea
and coffee, ls. 6d. ; oatmeal, lid. His expenditure :was Bi.
out of 14. • Now, the great proportion of the rood of the poor
ponsistedin flour, something In Sugar, something in meat; but
more than half in flour. Well, suppose. you pass the law the
Government propose, will it not produce a reduction on the
most important articles-and will you not most materially add
to the comfort and enjoyment of the poor? Let me assure you
that this is by far the most important part of the measure.-
( Hear, hear.). It is impossible-it is impossible to over-rate it.
I am quite aware of the sympathy which actuates you for the
poor ; I donot agree with those vsho 'charge you-with a want of
sympathy ; Ido believe that there is as much sincere and honest
desire on your part to sympathise with the peer, as there exists
in this
.House. But you cannot 'increase direct taxation. I
believe you would if you could-but you already raise seven
millions in stamps-five millions in property-tax-four millions
by the assessed-taxes, and these are limits beyond which you
cannot possibly go. If yen add to the income-tax, you will not
be benefiting the poor. Though the taxation may appear-to be
falling on the rich, it will have no less injurious effect.
The Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, would have me to
state what the price of wheat would beg after the abolition of
protection. Well, I have repeatedly replied, and I once more
state, that it is impossible for me to know what the price may
be ..hereafter. The Noble Lord in reply to that said, that in
,1835, a cargo of wheat had come to this country from Dant
zit, the price of which, after all expenses were paid,
amounted to 395. ; and insisted that, supposing there was no
duty on the importation of foreign wheat, the price would fall
to the same level as it did then. I am not prepared to
admit that the price would be lower, for the comparison he
made was not a true criterion by which the matter could be tested.
That was my statement.. The Noble Lord had got a return of
certaincargoes of corn that came to this country frorrsDantzic, and
he contended that because in 1839 the price-of corn amounted
to only 26s , that if you establish free-trade. the price must ne-
cessarily not exceed that amount. I firmly believe, however„
that if a free-trade in corn existed at this moment, the price
would not be less than 395.-the price which it was in 1835. It
is impossible, however, to argue what the price of corn may be
when the ports are freely opened; for until the system is in
operation, no argument can be raised on the matter which can
be relied on with any degree of accuracy. You sent Mr.
Jacob to the Continent, to report what the price of corn was in
the different states of Europe. He said in his report, that
although there would be a large surplus of corn to be imported
into this country, he could not think the price would fall below
38s. That was the true state of the case. If you encourage
production abroad, there must necessarily be a fictitious price
given to corn, and the Noble Lord argued from the instance
he brought forward, that that price would be the rule in all
cases. It was for that reason that I said, that even were there
free- trade in corn in 1835, the price would not fall below 355.
The British consuls in different places were also required to re-
sort what was the quantity of wheat which could be annually
sent to this country from the places where they respectively re-
sided, and at what price. Now what was the answer?
The general answer was, that it tonld not be im-
ported free on board under 465. .6d. per quarter, and that
general freight- would amount te 4s. 6d. In one place the price
was 39,. Id., and the freight from 4s. 6d. to ss. At Dantzic
the price was 40s. and the freight 3s. 6d. At Hamburgh the
price was from 35s to 465., and the freight from 2s. 6d. to ss.
Relying, then, upon the opinion of Mr. Jacobs, and relying
-upon the returns of your own consuls, as to what the price of
wheat would be free on board, at those ports from
which it may be expected-relying upon these two
Parliamentary returns, I repeat to ' you, that with
free trade in corn, the price will not be reduced below
395., as it was in 1835, In 1822, although agricultural
distress prevailed to a very great extent, the price of wheat
did not fall below 385., and in 1835 it did not fall below 393.
No foreign competition existed in either case, and although in
1835 the price fell to 395. Id., that depression was entirely to
be attributed to the abundance of your own ha:vest. In 1836,
following the example of 1822,.n0 foreign corn was admitted,
yet a Parliamentary, Committee was appointed to see what
remedies could be applied for the purpose of relieving the great
distress which then prevailed. I was attempting, therefore, to
show, looking at the immense population-looking at the
enormous masses of people who made wheat the principal
-source of subsistence, of what great importance it was that
the price should be as moderate as possible. I have shown,
then, that half of their expenditure went to the purchase of
wheat, and I wish to know what we can do better than to make
this article as moderate in price as we can ?-( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) If we can give a guarantee that the price
would not rise above 70s. or 80s., surely that would be
'an advantage of immense importance to the labouring classes.
We are about to try.maize, arid other articles, to meet anything
like a rise in corn. Suppose corn should fail, we shall have
maize to make up for the failure ? and I am sure if that article
should fail that we shall not be exposed to such extreme want
from the fact of our having Indian maize to rely on Taking
the whole circumstances into consideration, I do consider that
, the labourer's interest is deeply at stake in this question. I do
think the condition of the agricultural labourer ought to be a
question of consideration. If than yon can rely upon the
system of protection, why is it that you cannot exhibit a
happier condition of the labourer than we have at pre-
sent ?-( Hear, hear. )
Colonel SIBTHORP-Give protection to corn.
Sir R. PEEL-Yes, you have had protection to the agri-
cultural interest, and hat is the condition of the labourer ?
You have had protection to corn, and what is the result ?-
( Hear, hear.) If the price of corn had such an effect upon
the wages of the agricultural labourer, why is it, that the
wages of the manufacturing labourer has been much higher
than the former class of labourer, at a period before the
rise in corn took place. But there is no comparison between
the wages of the agricultural labourer and the price of wheat.
If the wages of the agricultural labourer varied with the price
of wheat, why were wages 13s. in Kent, when they were only
Ss. in Wiltshire? Now, as we find the labourer employed
in the manufacturing districts, we invariably find that wages
are much higher, and indeed the wages of the agricultural
labourers adjacent to a manufacturing district are always higher
than in the purely agricultural districts. If this is not the
ease, how is it we find the agricultural labourer paid 13s.
in Lincolnshire, and Bs. and 9s. in Wiltshire, and
oth r places? Why, because, not only was the land
adjacent to a manufacturing district; but because it
was brought into better cultivation than in other places. I
I a. wish to show that where skill is employed to cultivate the land,
remunerating prices can be had for the farmer and the

were mutual and reciprocal injuries to each country. He_
thotight that the example of this country would be more
beneficial than any negotiation into which they had entered.
jle Acid trig therti,was,ito reaiigiu to conatder that free:trade In aim
Would not be at ad-trantageints to the country as free:trade. In
other cenimodity; but by free-trade he did not mean trade free
from all duty—(Cheers from the beaches below the gangway)--'
which they were obliged to have for the purposes of revenue.
but such taxation as was levied for the prevention of export or
import—(Hear, hear,) —and not free. trade iu the abstract. His own
opinion was that corn should not be an exception from this rule.
He bad been always for n, fixed duty, andniight it be permitted him to
say he Sind riot takbh tip his ',pillion,' When the late Government were
in articulo mortis, for he held them in the years 1830 and 1840, When
there was no prospect of a dissolution, His wish would have been a
low fixed duty of about four or five shillings, which could have been
eiteetect *ithollt any great transition or prejudice to the feelings of
anY clash hi the bOitiniiinitY, lint Members in that House
must see what they can have, and not what they would.
have.—(Cheering.) His Noble'" end Ilonourable Friends have
abandoned fixed duty in despair. The Anti-Corn law League profess
that nothing will satisfy them but total repeal; . and finding
d flied .dtitY otit of the question; he had no hesitation in
giving his cordial support to the, nieastire of the Government.
The commissioners who had been appointed under the Enclosure
Act received 46 applications for land, acid they had a Bill before the
House for the purpose ofrescuing 400,000 acres of land frem the Ger-
man ocean. Now he would ask when this was the case, what ground
was there for apprehending that this measure would throw land out
of cultivation. He t tated that the landowners would be sufferers
trent the Winterise influx of foreign corn, but he would ask, where
was the immense quantity of corn to come from.—(Cries of
" Divide, divide, and adjourn.") Prices would rise abroad when
they went Into the foreign market, and there would, therefore, be
no great alteration in the prices in this country. He denied,
.therefore, that .there would be any alteration in the prices.
—(Hear, hear.) But if it was admitted that the change
would have the effect of making the price of corn
lower, that was a confession that their rents at present were too
high.—(Cries of " Adjourn, and divide.") The English
aristocracy were a proud aristocracy. They ought to be proud.
If they failed in their appeal to their sense of justice, they should
appeal to their pride.—(Cries of "Divide, divide.") This question
would increase the wealth and prosperity of the country, and it
would do more—it ` would preserve' peace.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord then centinued : —lf monarchies are ambitious and
threatening—ifdemocracies are encroaching and aggressive, and that
you wish to bind them to keep the peace, fetter them with commerce
—(Cheers.) If yeti wish to Inspire them with. better feelings, and
imbue their minds with more just and moderate sentiments, spread
before them the book of the merchant, and in that volume they will
find more conclusive arguments than they would perceive in the pre-
cepts of the wisest moralists, or the sagest doctrines of the greatest
statesmen.—(Cheers.) Upon these grounds I will support the mea-
sure before the House, because, in my opinion, it is calculated to ad-
vance the public welfare, to promote the comfort and prosperity of
the country, and because it is founded on principles which will
secure to mankind the great and incalculable blessing of interna-
tional peace. (The Noble Lord resumed his seat amidst great
applause.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The House then divided, when there appeared :
For the Second Reading.... • •
• Against it ..... 214
Majority for the Second Reading.. • • 88

On our re-admission we found
Mr. F. MAULE inquiring whether the further progress of the Bill
was postponed pro forma for a week, or whether Government in-
tended to go into Committee on it next Friday?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it was the in-
tention of Government to proceed with the measure on Monday
next. •
Lerd G. BENTINCK wished to know when the Committee of the
Customs Bill would ioe fixed?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER named Thursday next.
The Burghs (Scotland) Bill was read a third time and passed.
The report on the Indemnity Bill was brought up and received,
and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Monday next.
Mr. F. MACKENZIE moved for a Select Committee to take into
consideration the system of granting certificates for public-houses 1n•
Scotland.
After a few remarks from Mr. F. MAULE and Sir J. GRAHAM,
the motion was agreed to. • •
On the question that the House adjourn,
PROTECTION (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. C. BULLER wished to know whether Government intended
to take the first reading of the Irish Coercion Bill on Monday ? He
regretted that such a course would interfere with the progress of the
Corn-law Bill, and thought that the Government would do well,
before asking the House to read the Coercion Bill a first time, to lay
on the table the various returns on which the Bill was founded, and
in the meantime to postpone the first reading.
Sir J. GRAHAM regretted as much as the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman slid that anything should interfere with the progress of
the Corn-law Bill. The Government had intimated their intention
of taking the first reading of the Protection of Life (Ireland) Bill on
Monday next, and intended to abide by their intimation. It had not
been found possible as yet to obtain the returns in the perfect form
which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman wished. He had hoped that
the Bill would have been read a first time as a matter of course ;
and though he regretted the resistance intended to be offered, it
would nevertheless be his duty on Monday, at five o'clock, to move
the first reading of the Bill.
After a few words from Mr. F. MAULE, who urged on the Go-
vernment the propriety, of considering between that night and Mon-
day next whether they had not better pospone the first reading,
The House adjourned at a few minutes to Three o'clock.

(Loud cheers.) I say, with this unfOrtimate prospect before
me; even admittin; that t e precaution I took iv,as ,spmfluous,
I can only say, with Burke, under similar circumstances., 'lie said,
In every pressure of affliction, in sickness, in penury, fn difficulty,
and in distress, I will call to mind that accusation, and be comforted."

It is no reproach to be attached to me, even if the precaution was
superduons. :But, in Junk or July next it will be established whe-
ther my precautions were founded in truth, and my motives wor-
thy. Hut-I speak of this measure not as a temporary, but as a per-
manent measure; and if I fall, I shall have the satisfaction that I fall
because I prefer the general interests of the people to that of party.
I shall have the satisfaction that, during my official career, my object

ias been to mitigate monopoly—to increase the demand for industry
—to remove restriction from commerce—to equalise the burden of
.axation—and to ameliorate the condition of the labouring cla.sses.—
.

(The Right Boni Bart .resumed his seat amid long and loud cheering.)
Mr. S. O'BRIEN rose amidst loud cries of "Divide, divide." He
said, if they had any objection to hear him, then he had no objection
to move the adjournment of the debate. He rosein consequence of
some remarks which had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, and to
vindicate the, position of that porlon of Hon. Members who advo-
cated protection, and with whom he acted. The Right lion. Baronet
said that if hd fell he would fall striving in his official career, to
mitigate monopoly, and Improve the condition of the people. He
thought that the Right Hon. Baronet, skilful as he was in addressing
the House on any personal matter, had not in this instance been
peculiarly happy in making out his case. If the Right Hon. Baronet
did fall, it would not be as he himself expressed it, in striving
to mitigate monopoly, but in consequence of his desertion of those
principles which had guided him previous to the last three years. The
principles which the Right Hon. Baronet now espoused might be
right or wrong, but for the ten years preceding these last three years,
it was the chief object of the Right Hon. Baronet's life to construct
and build up a party, and he (Mr. S. O'Brien) thought the principles
he then advocated were just, sound, and true.—(Hear, hear.) Nobi'
and well had the Right lion. Baronet then laboured, and well had
his party supported him.—(Cheers.) The result was that the Noble
Lord the Member 'for London 'was removed from these benches to the
Opposition. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) did not know what influences had
been at work to occasion the change In the opinions of the Right Hon.
Baronet —he did not know what influences had led to his fall.—
(Cheers and cries of " Oh, eh.") He did not know what machinery
had been at work, but he would never admit that the Right
Honourable Baronet had yet stated his case fully, and,

RAILWAY COMMITTEES
(YESTERDAY.)

therefore, not fairly, when 'he stated that he fell because he
had laboured to remove restrictions on imports. He thought that
the Right Hon. Baronet, before entering upon the agricultural de-
tails with which he had favoured the House that evening, should
have furniihed them to Hon. Members on that side of the House
who were docally Interested. • The Right Hon. Baronet, indeed, said
that he was willing to give those tables of wages and estimates of
the prices of wheat to Hon. Members who might be locally con-
nected with the districts referred to. But what good would that
do i Long before they could have corrected his errors—long before
they could have observed his fallacies, millions would have
read 'what the ;Right Honourable Baronet had said,
and • this ' measure would be in too advanced a stage
to combat it with any degree of success. Many of the county
Members connected with the several localities t> which the state-

H OUSE OF LORDS.
THE DUBLIN AND ENNISKILLEN.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. J. C. Morris, cross-examined by Mr. BOYLE—The grand jury
of Meath preferred this line to that of the North Midland Company,
because It would pass through the heart of that country. This line
would accommodate 580,000 people. I see the name of Donnybrook
-included in the list of parishes which it is said this line will accom-
modate. Why do you include it?—Because there's a great fair there.
Yes; for who has not heard of Donnybrook fair, but they
cannot derive much traffic from that source ?—There is a great many
horse-dealers who attend the fair. What side of Dublin is Donny-
brook on P—On the south-east side. And on what side is Clonullagh,
the proposed terminus of this railway?—On the north-side.—(Laugh-
ter.) He did not think that Tyrone was a grazing county. Solve of
the parishes included in the list were much more distant than five
miles from the line: It was not a general rule in Ireland that the
produce was sent to the nearest port. The traffic which was carried
from the north- of Ireland to Dublin was very great, and would
include more than agricultural produce.
Mr. Joseph Hill was next called on behalf of the promoters. Had
been employed by the Poor-law Commissioners in Ireland as valuator.
Was well acquainted with the district through which this line would
pass, and believed that it would afford the best communication to the
district.
Mr. Barnes, a magistrate of the county of Meath, wp.s of opinion
that there would not be as much traffic and passengers on the line
through which the North Midland would pass as on that of this
Company.: Drogheda, through which this Company's line would
pass, was an export town to the county of Meath.
After some further evidence in favour of the line in preference to
the opposing scheme, -
Mr. ALEXANDER,. Q.C., on the part of the' opposition, applied to
their Lordships to have the case adjourned until Monday, on the
ground that the opponents wished to consult their engineer, and that
Saturday w as the.only day on which he was disengaged. If their
Lordships decided to proceed with the case to-morrow, it would be a
great inconvenience to the North Midland Company.
The Cnsinmsx said that their Lordships would have preferred
sitting to-morrow, because on Tuesday they were afraid that they
would not be able to sit.
It was ultimately agreed that the Committee should stand ad-
journed until Monday. •
Mr. John Farrell, another magistrate for the county of Meath,
stated that he was possessed of considerable property near Kells, and
was well acquainted with Meath.• The amount of cattle produced
there was very great, and the owners preferred sending them to
Dublin for sale and exportation. ‘Navan was a very important town
and as this line passed through it (which the North Midland did no,)*
lie should much prefer it to the opposing scheme.
Cross-examined—This line would be more advantageous to the
Crosa-examine
Bad
ei bndl
Ks]s
atierjll.
bus arn, :nu
branch
lehrdnfi.
minhhoipideattlhnapnyp de appeared
r shouldhe
of
people of Trim and Athboy than the opposing line, beeause it was
g
more' dire.ct.
'heir
join in Railway
ha
nal
oirltehC, who
coctninonnetbinttreehemiLeal atotplrlfNdaaostffafhevoltrp"fhdosersanctionmthemost
de i Belfastreet econnection
nJnueneci
oonn branchby
y railwayt o 1( ewl si
t, h wouldyou
r
fromthVE efeltt
nearest port, viz., Drogheda ?—Certainly it would.
Mr. Lambert Disney; a steward of Lord Farnham's estate, near

ments of the Right Hon. Member iiiTreference, knowing that he in-
tended to express his opinion on that question, had pointed out many
contradictions, many errors in those statements, but he did not feel
himself justified at that late hour to enter into details, with a view
of exhibiting these inaccuracies. When the Right Hon. Baronet
entered into an analysis of the domestic expenses of a Yorkshire la-
bourer, he but introduced a statement the Noble Lord, the Mem-
ber for the West Riding of Yorkshire. He (Mr. S. O'Brien) was most
anxious that the motives by which Hon. Membere on that side of the
House were actuated in their opposition to this Bill, should be fairly
stated, and he thought it would be advisable, hy,Hon. Gentlemen
Oppotite, as they might; if so inclined, have embarrassed the
Government to a greater degree than they had done,—they might,
for instance, have moved an 'address to the crown, for a dissolution
of Parliament. They might have asked for a vote of want of con-
fidence in the Government.—(Cheers, and "Oh, oh ;")—and they
possibly might have caught some stray votes by the adoption of such
a course.—(lronical cheers, and " Oh, oh.") But they had acted in
a fairer manner, and he was sure that the Hon. Member for Stock-
port would conclude, at least, that they had adopted the fair, the
open, and the manly eourse. They were determined to bring the
question of protection into the open field, and if they were beaten
upon it, they had the consolation at least of knowing that they had
not incurred disgrace—although left to fight the battle by themselves,
the country would have the satisfaction of knowing the energy, the
support, and the zeal, which had been exhibited by those around
them, and especially by the younger members.—(Cheers and laugh-
ter.) This was no question of modification ; they had supported the
Right Hon. Bart. in his different changes, but this was a question
of total remiss ion of duty ; and when they considered the
tremendous interest involved, the mighty nature of the consequences
that might follow, they could not give their support to the ill-timed
measure proposed by the Government. The Right Hon. Baronet,
the Secretary of State for the Home Department, had said that the
averages spoke untruly in the present year. He said that the price
had varied from 485. to 745., and he, therefore, argued against the
sliding scale. Now, when the Noble Lord, the Member for Lynn, in-
quired of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government.
what he was going to do with tithes, the Right Hon. Gentleman im-
mediately answered that tbe averages, would answer fog that. They
said the averages, were delusive with respect to the foreigner, but
they kept them on with respect to tithes. That was manifestly an
injuVice. He was ready' to admit that the Right Hon. Baronet had
not exaggeratedthe state of Ireland ; and to give him the best proof
that he felt so, he might state, that as soon as he (Mr. O'Brien) could
get away from • these discussions, he intended to go Over, apd see
what he could do personally to mitigate th, distress of that country.
He did not, however, think that the temporary distress of Ireland
had ar.ything to do with the measure they were discussing, and as a
perpetual measure it must ultimately increase the difficulties of the
poor of Ireland. • The Right Hon. Baronet had given them no cal-
culations upon' which to found this measure. He had told them
nothing about the price of corn.—(lronical cheers.) Ile understood.
that rimer. Ilea. Gentletnen qpposite :whenever -the, leastallusion
was made to money on that (the Ministerial) side of the House,
assumed that the interests of the protectionists were mercenary.
He could not but remember that the Hon. and smiling Member for
Durham, when the question of a penny a pound upon cotton wool
`was proposed, was most anxious upon that subject. HQn. Gentle-
men could not deny• that the landed interest had legislated upon
their convictions, and now, when the Legislature was about to be-
come commercialor' manufacturing in its character, he trusted that at
least the supporters of the new system would acknowledge that the
protectioni4ts had battled to the last for what they believed to
be true.

labourer.
Colonel SIBTHORP—The wages were higher because
there was a remunerating price for corn?
Sir R. PEEL—There was just as much a remunerating
price in the parts where low wages were paid, as in the others ;
and I think the Hon. and Gallant Member might easily reason
that to be the fact, without any material stretch of his logical
faculty.—(Loud laughter.) This, then, being the case,‘•can
we say that the state of the agricultural labourer is as it ought
to be? Was the state of the men who had to work for their
bread so laboriously in that state which it ought to be?
Are you, not, then, I ask, deeply interested in rendering less
irksome the social condition of the great mass of the popula-
tion of this empire ?—( Hear, hear.) Believe me, the great
point which you have to attain is to appease the apprehensions
of the people, and that the only way .to attain that is to let
them have, in the first instance, abundance of food.—( Cheers. )
You may in vain attempt to induce habits of cleanliness and
purity in their dwellings, and all the other elements of social
comfort, but they will fail, if you do not give them, in the first
instance, abundance of f4od.—( Hear, hear.) If there be any
apprehensim on the minds of the population that there
is likely to be a scarcity of food, depend upon it it will be
in vain for you to try and induce any improvement in
their social condition. Hon. Members may laugh at this if
they will ; but allow me to tell them that the last three years'
experience must have proved that lam correct. I will quote a
few figures, in order to show that I am correct, and I will quote
none that lam not prepared to verify. Now take the variations
in the prices of wheat from •the year 1837 to the present time.
I took care to have accounts furnished me from farmers in
the purely agricultural districts, of the amount of wages paid
to their labourers from the year 1837 to 1844 inclusive, and it
amounted to this in the Sudbury Union in Dorsetshire. The
sums I am now about to qu te are those which the labourer
received in money • and in beer, and the comparative
amount of wages in summer and in winter. Let me also
remind the House that since the year 1837, prices of corn and of
labour varied very much. In the year 1837, the price of wheat was
555. 10d. ; in 1838, it was 645. 7d: ; in 1839, it was 765. Bd.; in
1840, it was 665. 4d. ; in 1841, it was 665. 4d. ; in 1842, it was 575.
3d.; in 1843, it was 505.; in 1844, it was 51s ; and in 1845 it was
555. 10d. Therefore you see that since 1837 to 1845, the price of
wheat varied In the proportions which I have stated. But now let
me observe that ,I have also seen a disposition in this country, I
regret to say, to substitute the potato for wheat. We have heard
much of the allotment system, and we have been told that it has
been adopted most benevolently ; but I shall only say that I think
this feeling only tends to reduce the peasantry of this country to the
state of the Irish peasantry—(Hear, hear)—and I should consider
it a groat calamity indeed that the potato should be
substituted its this Country for the use of wheat.—(Elear, hear.)
I will now give you the variation in the rate of wages in Dorset
from the year 1837 upwards. In 1837, the wages amounted to 10s. ;
in 1838 to 1 is.; in 1839 to lls.; in 1840 to I Is.; in 1841 to I Is. ; in
1842 to 113 ; in 1843 to lls. ; and in 1844 to I Os.—(Bear, hear.) In
East Suffolk, the variation of wages has been from Bs. to 10s. per
week, and the supply of labour in that quarter is greater than the
demand ; and consequently the farmers pay what they like. In
West Suff dk the wages paid fluctuate between 9s. and IN. per week,
that is when task labour is not employed. lam not saying that 10s.
per week is the maximum of wages, because I know there is extra
pay in the harvest... Now is this not demonstrable of the fact with
which T set out?—(Hear, hear.) If I show you that in eight years,
there being no rise in the rate of wages, but a consid-rable advance
in the price of corn, do I not demonstrate the position with which I
set out?-(Cheers.) Ilave I not proved the fallacy of the doctrines
of Hon. Gentlemen who contend for the opposite?—(Renewed cheCrs.)
Therefore- we cannot continue the existing law on the ground that
it is for the benefit of the agricultural labourer. I believe that Adam
Smith's doctrine is true, although he says in some part of his works
that there is a tendency in the rate of wages to increase according to
the price of corn. tie says that the rate of wages depends on the
country being in a flouri hing state, and the amount of capital ap-
plicable to the labouring interest., And it is the flourishing state of
agriculture, manufaeture and commerce, and not the price of pro-
vision, that regulates the rate of wages. So I say, that by removing
the restrictions on in ustry, we can increase the demand for labour,
and that is the mode by which we, are to raise the wages of the agri-
cultural labourer, and not by raising the price of food. Let us observe
what advantages we shall gain by it. It eannot be denied that
we shall guard against the rapid increase of prices, and relieve
ourselves from the responsibility of regttlating the supply of food.
My Right Hon. Friend has told me what has passed since this urea-
sure has been brought forward. I could prove to you, if I thought it
necessary, from various parts of this country ; that there is no tariff
with respect to the pric.s of land. I could adduce an instance re-
specting Scotland. There have been 11 farms in Roxburgh let since
the proposal of this measure by Government. I could prove the
enormous price given for land in this country, and where capital and
skill are most employed there is no apprehension of this measure.
I could prove that in Lincolnshire several farms have been let since
this measure was introduced. I could show that the agricultural
portion of the community exists on this subject. If a law could
be maintained, that would protect bad farming and insufficient
capital protection is the law best calculated for such a purpose. I do
not deny that there may be individual cases of injury. There may
be suffering—there will be property encumbered, and tenants in-
jured, but on the whole, compare that injury with the advantage you
gain—compare it with the security you gain against ruinous prices—
with the comfort you secure to yourselves, in not being responsible
in times of scarcity for the supply of food. Compare all that with
the advantage that may be done, and see from which side the most
bent is likely to accrue to the agricultural interest. Look at the
probable advantage to the labouring classes; look at the
security of your own positions, which I believe
will be elevated, and not depressed, and the legiti
mate influence you will exercise in this state of thing
In making this concession, my firm belief is that I do not act as r
enemy to that interest with which my own is so intimatelyidenta
In making this proposal on the part of the Government, I intem" led
it to be for the benefit of all classes ; for you could not expect to c sp ,
tinue enforcing the endurance of protection. Was not the case
rine
for the agricultural interest to consider impartially 7, You say tat
the present time is one of prosperity, and is not that an add' ji oral
a-gument in favour of this measure? You can alter it witl
het lour
to yourselves, and without fearing the:infliction of injury
The . f lon.
Gentleman who spoke before me said that there was r
scarcity this year. He said that ate would get over + .4,fett.t 1.
:w
out any cause for apprehension, Is not that an ma -.,0f, addtgAza
Vab,

A thboy, was next examined in favour of the Dublin and Enniskil-
len line, which he considered by far the more preferable project. He
should' oppose the line of the North Midland, inasmuch as it would
pass through the estate of Lord Farnham, and compel him to change
his residence.' The county through which this line would pass was
a very impgrtant and commercial tract of country.
Cross-examined—Did not know that there was any partichlar traftle.

between Athboy and Duushoughlan' but he believed that it was only
to justify the formation of a branch from the main line of this corn-

any. he had never sent any cattle to Drogheda. He was more
particularly acquainted with the county of Meath, and as regarded
that county, he was certain that this line would be more advantage-
ouslo the public than the opposing sceme.
The evidence of this witness having been concluded, the Committee
adjourned until Monday.

Lord PALMIRSTON then rose amidst loud cries of " Divide, di-
vide." He wished briefly to state and explain the vievp which. he
had been induced to take of the two important qUeStions which
formed the subject of their discuseion—the one question
commercial and the other constltutional—(Hear, hear.)
He thought that the Government were completely justified in de-
parting from the party engagements into which they had entered on
the formation of the present Parliament. He believed that public
men were public property—(Cheers)—and that that which eon,
cerned the public interest should be discussed without consulting the
particular interests of a private class, which must be in opposition to
the general good of the country. The Government had introduced
measures this year, not so much at variance with their former opt=
nions as with their former practical course.—(Hear, hear.) A large
section of those nip) were their former supporters were content with
merelyopposing the measure on the ground of its being dangerous
to a certain class in the country; an'i, because they held that opinion
they ware determined to withhold from the Right Hon. Gentleman
that stlaport Which they had hitherto accorded to him. That' section
of politicians had asserted that the Meitibets Of the Government
had betrayed their followers.—(Hear, hear.) Bet he could not
acquiesce in the doctrine which was implied in that charge, for,
while they made it, they also fairly acknowledged that the Govern-
ment had been actuated, in the course which they had pursued upon
this occasion. by a Sincere conviction that they were doing that
Which the public interests required.—(Hear, hear.) And the charge
implied that public men should obey the engagements which they
had contracted with their party rather than de that which was
consistent with the public interests.—( Hear, .hear.) He, on the con-
trary, held that, however' impOttant political associations were for
the useful working of the British Constitution, and however the man
belonging to a party was bound in his political relations to act in
accordance with his political associates, yet he would say, that
any man Who held the relation of Minister of the
Crown, should consider the interests of the country in
preference to those of any political party with which he might be as-
sociated.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that the Government had
placed upon a somewhat too narrow ground the justification which
they had advanced for the change which had taken place in their con-
duct. They had ascribed that change to their experience of the last
three years ; but he thought they might have said that it was rather
to the experience of the last four yearsthe debates of the last four
sessions, the speeches of his Hon. Friend the Member for Stockport
—(Hear, hear)—and of other Gentlemen on his side of the House,
who, session after session, had advocated the measure in eloquent
unanswerable speeches—(Hear, hear)—that their change had been
effected. It was very well for Gentlemen who sat listening to the
debates, and others who came down at the eleventh hour to divide
in the lobby, to record the triumph of their party—it was very
well for such to maintain, session after session, and year after year,
their old opinions; but the case of the Minister of the Crown was
very different.—(Hear, hear.) The Mihister of the Crown had to sit
throughout the whole of the debates—(Hear, hear, and laughter),
and listento the speeches, and moreover find arguments to answer
the objections brought against the propositions of the Government,'
and those arguments must be such as must not disgrace a Minister of
the Crown.—(Hear, hear, and cries of
." Question.") The Members
of the Government were obliged to watch the progress of
the public opinion, and concede to the requirements. of
the intelligent and just men of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord then.proceeded in the following terms :—There are
certain climates which are specific cures for certain diseases.—
(Loud laughter.) And I would venture to say I would take any men
who are labouring under the most acute and inflammatory type of the
protectio.n fever, that, after a time—after they had for a few months
breathed the free-trade atmosphere of Downing-street—they would
be altogether cured !—(Laughter.) Now, Sir, with regard to the
commercial part of the question. Having taken the liberty some
years :.go of expressing a wish that the word " protection" might be
blotted out from our commercial vocabulary, I cannot but hail with
cordial pleasure measures which have so great a tendency to carry
that 'wish into effect.—(Cheers.) Sir, protection is, no doubt, a
plausible word ; and many are the evils which mankind have had to
ereaure from plausible words cloaking and disguising injuries.—
(Hear, `hear.) What does protection in the commercial sense mean?
It means nothing but the injury of the many to the benefit of the
few— (Loud eheers)—with this difference, that the injury to the
man: v is real, and the benefit to the few is for the most part delusive.
Ther a can be no benefit to any class of men unless they are stimu-
lated to exert their industry, and intelligence, and activity to the
utind st extent ; but protection is a baneful influence which para-
lyses the vital energies of human industry, which curbs de-
velo, ament and cripples its growth, and so far from benefiting
the. parties for whose advantage it is intended, it frequently
lei svee them perhaps even in a worse condition than they would have
be An if that protection had not been afforded.—(Hear, hear.) Sir,
Len I say, protection being injurious to the many, and not even ad-
vantageous to the few, it is against one of the fundamental maxims
which ought to guide legislation—namely; that you should legislate
for the benefit of the many, and not for the advantage of the few.—
(Cheers.) But it is contended that free trade and the absence of pro-
tection must be very well for a country in a natural state of society,
but that we are in an artificial condition—that we have large esta-
blishments, naval and military, to support—that we have a great
debt, whose interest we are bound to pay—and that we cannot afford
all these expenses unless with the principle of protection. I hold
that to be a complete fallacy. I hold the position not only to be un-
true, but to be the very reverse.—Wh
.--eers.) What is the effect of
protection? Why, the meaning and effect of protection that you
should, by artificial taxation, raise the price of commodities
that come from abroad, and by that means raise the price
of the like commodities at home—that you should make com-
modities dearer than they would otherwise be, and, as
I contend, worse than they would otherwise be.—
(Loud cheers.)
Ile believed that the high tariffs of France Lou England

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP IX.
WEST or SCOTLAND ZUNCTION.
'Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.

Mr. sergeant BuLlsis briefly cross-examined the witness with
the purpose of showing that one of the alternative branches would
interfere at a crossing with the Barrhead and' Neilston Direct

Railway.
Mr. Wthsoic, ironmaster of Dundyvan, near Glasgow, was next
called in, and was undergoing examination as to the great advan-
tage the proposed junction would confer on the trade of the sur-
rounding district, when
The CIIAIRMAN interfered. He said he had sent to the Admiralty
for Captain Washington, one of the Tidal Harbour Commissioners, to
be examined as to the crossing of tll.e Clyde ; and as that gentleman
had arrived, it would be convenient to take his evidence at once.
Captain Washington was then examined, and said his attention
had been called to the Harbour of Glasgow last year. He gave evi-
dence then against the proposed crossing of the Clyde, but he had
not attended to the present plan. [The plan was here produced and
placed before the witness.] Looking at the plan he considered it a
decided improvement on the plan of last year, still he objected to it.
It would stillinterfere with the harbour, and rather than the smallest
obstruction should be offered to the navigation, he would prefer that
the present bridge be pulled down, and one of two or three spans built
in its stead. Ile would also prefer that it should be built further up
the river.
A letter from the Admiralty was here produced, to the effect that
the Admiralty would not interfere with the present plans, but leave
the matter to the Committee.
Captain Washington, in continuation, said he believed the Admi-
ralty would not put a veto on the plan, but submit the whole matter
to the discretion of the Committee ; still he was certain if the subject
was left entirely to them they would decide against the proposed

Plan.
At the close of the examination the
.room was cleared. On our
return,
The CHAIRMAN said there was one point oil which the Committee
required spccial engineering evidence. It was about the proposed
junction in the tunnel on the north side of the line. Unless the pre-
sent impression was removed about the danger of that junction, there
would be little use in occupying time with the other parts of the case.
Mr. Sergeant ANDREWS said they would be prepared with evidence
on that point on Monday morning.
The Committee then adjourned till Menday at twelve o'clock.

GROUP XII.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition 0 yeeterday.)
The Committee then decid that the preamble of the Bill,
TEE GLASGOW, PAISLEY, KILMARNOCK,
AND AYR. (No. 3 -WITH ER,ANCIIES TO
I.AVIPITS AND LESMAIIAGOW),
was proved, as also
TUX GuasGovr, EXLIVIARNOCIC, AND
ARDROSSAN.

The Committee intimated that when the clauses of the latter Bill
same to be considered the one which referred to the purchase of the
harbour would require to be amend
he ed. The clauses of the first-
named Bill were then agreed to and t Committee adjourned.

GROUP XIV.
NORTH RENT.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
By Mr. Sergeant WitANGHAM —There would be a loss to the pro-
prietor, but that loss might be estimated and compensated in money.
In the absence of Mr. Austin, he proceeded to address the Com-
mittee in support of a petition against the proposed line by
Messrs, Hall, the proprietors of the gunpowder-mills in Favers-
ham. He called
Mr. Coller, an assistant to a surveyor In Canterbury,who proved the
accuracy of the plan of the mills, and the course of the intended
line.
Mr. William Hart, a superintendent and manager of the business
of Messrs. Hall—The mills originally belonged to Government, but
were purchased in 1823 by Messrs. Hall. The mills existed in the
time of Queen Elizabeth. The business is very large, and the
average sale is about 500 barrels of powder per week. Is in the
habit of contracting with Government. Within the last fortnight
Messrs. Hall have contracted to supply 2,340 barrels of powder.
By Mr. Sergeant Waexunera—Cannot explain the process as carried
on in the different mills.
Mr. Wm. Monks, foreman to Messrs. Hall, stated that he had been
employed 24 hours. The materials for the powder are prepared in
the saltpetre refinery, and are then taken to the other mills. There
are six pairs of runners, or millstones at the Osprich Mills, and in the
other mills the number varies from two to ten pair. Af-
ter the runner is turned round once or twice on the
materials, they are called " mill cake," and is stronger
than when it is in a manufactured state. A two ounce
charge of "mill cake" will send a 68-pound ball 20 feet farther than
a 2 oz charge of the manufactured powder. The contents of a Darrel
is 1001135., and there are "charge houses" in all the mills. The charge
house of the Osprich Mills contains from 30 to 40 barrels of powder.
The mills are 185 yards from the line. The mills are built of slight
materials, to mitigate as much as possible the effect of any explosion,
but the charge houses are built of very thick masonry, and
in case of an explosion, it would be very violent. Great precautions
are taken to avoid accidents. The men enter the mill with list shoes.
The powder is very volatile, and the roofs of the mills are covered
with powder dUISt, es also the trios round it. AMO pump is kept

THE SUN, 1:,ON DON, SATURDAY lIN_ING, MARCH 28, 1846.

GROUP XVI.
EPSOM BRANCH.
Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
•

Mr. Butcher, a surveyor at Ewell, and proprietor of brick-fields in
that parish, testified to the non-interference of the line with orna-
mental property, and to the low value of the land. He made
nearly a million of bricks, some of which he had attempted to
send to London, but the cost was 1/. a thousand, and the carriage
beat him. On the railway he could transmit them for Tess than ss. a
thousand, an advantage which he should be very glad to obtain,
From his profession he had much intercourse with the middle and
hjgher classes, and he was convinced that their feelings were de-
cidedly in favour of the South-Western branch.
Mr. Steel, a resident of Epsom, stated that there were about
12,000 sheep, 3,000 oxen, and a number of lambs, calves, and other
stock which might be sent much more advantageously by this line
than the other. The posting was also chiefly to the West-end. On
the Derby day tile number of persons present on the race course
were from _lBOOO to 200,608, which were chiefly persons from
the London side of the country. He had been to every
respectable house in Epsom, and he could say that the feeling was
almost unanimous in favour of this line. With respect to the petition
against the line he had ascertained that fifty of the 'petitioners had
signed this petition ; fifty had declined to sign, icst they should ap-
pear foolish, though anxious to do so ; thirty were en the list of those
excused on account of their poverty from paying rates ;. fifty were
lodgers, paying no rates at all ; and the remainder squatters on the
eommon. All the magistrates had signed in favour of this line, and
the only person of respectability who had signed the other was the
vicar and Mr. Northey, who was lord of the manors both of Ewell
and Cheam ; the latter of these gentlemen, however was decidedly in
favour of the South-Western line. . • •
Mr. Mason, of the Spring Hotel, at Ewell, testified to the feelings
of the inhabitants, which he had gathered by going round with a
petition. The reason why the vicar had not signed was, his having
sold a considerable quantity of land to the Croydon Company, and
he therefore thought that it would not look well to support their
opponents: The petition from Ewell in favour of the Croydon line
had been chiefly signed by persons occupying cottages of from 4/. to
6/. a year rent. He had been a coach proprietor for the last seven
years, and up to that time there were twenty-six coaches which
passed his house, twenty of which went to the West-end. The
witness spoke also to the value of the land and the feelings of the
people. At this point the room was cleared.
When the public were re-admitted, the CHAIRMAN declared that
the Committee were of opinion that it was unnecessary to offer any
opposition, as the preamble of the Bill had not been proved.
FARNHAM AND ALTON BRANCH.
On inquiry by the CHAIRMAN as to whether the parties were ready
to proceed, Mr. Goldsenid said he appeared on behalf of the Reigate
and Reading Company, to oppose part of this scheme,, and Mr.
Wordsworth appeared on behalf of several landowners, also in oppo •
sition to the line, of which the Sonth-Wostern Company are the pro-
moters; but it being suggested that the inquiry had better be
adjourned until Monday, the Committee acceded.

GROUP XIX.
This Committeee assembled this day at twelve o'clock ; present,
Lord Harry Vane (chairman), the Earl of Marsh, the Hon. Frances
Scott, Mr. David Morris, and Mr. Phillip Bennett.
The further consideration of the proposed line of the
EXETER AND EXMOUTH

was proceeded with.
Mr. ROWE and Mr. Comm:um appeared on the part of this Bill,
who produced several witnesses, residents iii Exeter, Exmouth, and
Topsham, all of whom advocated- the present line now
under consideration, as it afforded more facility and ac-
commodation to :the public than tae opposite scheme. The
principal objections they advanced against the rival Bill were--the
passing the canal, and the stations they had selected, more parties
erly the one at Topsham, on account of Its being so far removed
from the quay.
Mr. Locke, engineer of the Exeter and Exmouth Railway, did not
approve of the application of the atmospheric principle in crossing
the canal, and considered that when an equally advantageous com-
munication .xmld be effected without, it ought to. be selected in pre-
ferenca. His estimate for the construction of this line was 100,0001.
Yr. Whiter had been on the Croydon Railway, in order to ascer-
tain the success of the atmospheric principle on that line. A long
discussion ensued relative to the respective merits and advantages
of the locomotive and atmospheric principles.
This witness was still under examination, when at four o'clock the
Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday next.

GROUP XXI.
LONDON AND OXFORD.

:Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Wm. Hatton, farmer and carrier, in the parish of Ashton
Rowell, 11 miles from High Wycombe, said he carried 700 or 800
tons of goods a year, which he should send by the line if it were made.
The line to Wycombe proposed by the Great Western Company would
be of no advantage to him as it would be 11 miles from his place of
business and was indirect. The station of the London and Brighton
offered advantages which the Great Western station did not possess
because it was near Newgate and Smithfield markets.
Mr. VENABLES, who appeared on behalf of the landowners who
have petitioned against the line, inquired of the promoters of the line
if tliey intended to proceed with the Southall branch ?
Mr. CALVERT said he was not in a position to say that they would
not proceed with this branch. He believed, however, that Parlia-
ment would adopt such a course as to preclude its construction, on
account of the diversity of gauge,
Mr. Payne, a farmer, at Saunderton Lea, six miles from High
Wycombe, spoke to the advantages which the line would confer on
the inhabitants and trade of the districts through which it was de-
signed to pass. •
Mr. Simmonds, chemist and gas manufacturer, at Thome, stated
that he used 115 tons of coals a year, which he had from Newcastle,
for which he paid 15s. Bd. per ton in the pool. The cost of transits
would be materially reduced if the line to Aylesbury were continued
to Thame.
Mr. Tiplock, a linen-draper at Thome, said he bought his woollen
goods in London, as they got them better there. Thinks if they had
a line from Thame to the north that they should still buy them in
London. He now went four times to London yearly ; but if the line
were made he should go twelve times in the same period.
Mr. R. H. Cowland, carrier, Thome, said he now sent the goods he
had to convey, at three tons a week, to Aylesbury, and so on to
London by the London and Birmingham line, or by the same line
to the north. A line from Thame to join the Aylesbury line would
be very beneficial. Trade had greatly fallen off in Thame, owing to
the Great Western and Birmingham lines.
Mr. I. Stone, also a carrier, and Mr. Phillipps, cattle-dealer,
Thame, gave evidence in support of the line.
Mr. TALBOT inquired if the promoters of the Bill intended to pro-
ceed with the short branch into Oxford, which is proposed to form a
junction with the Great Western?
Mr. HILDYARD said, as he stated in opening the case, the branches
to the Great Western were proposed in order to obviate the difficulty
in which they were placed by, the report of the Gauge Commissioners.
He would answer the question of his Learned Friend if he would tell
him whether the broad or narrow gauge would be adopted or not on
all the lines in the Company.
Mr. TALBOT said the question was one which the Prime Minister
could not answer. It was important that the question should be then
decided, as the construction of the branches would affect the es-
timates. _ .

After a short discussion,
Mr. HILDTARD undertook, at the request of the Committee, to re-
reply to the question, if possible, on Monday.
The Committee then adjourned until that day.

GROUP XXV.
The Select Committee apppointed to consider the merits of this
group` re-assembled at the usnal hour this morning, in the West-
minster Sessions House, the lion. M. Lascelles in the chair.

HARWICH AND EASTERN UNION.
The business of this morning was commenced by Mr. AUSTIN
opening the case on behalf of the promoters of the Easto' a 'Ur Lou nd
Harwich Junction Railway. It was clear, he said, rrom the fair and
very creditable evidence of Mr. Braithwaite, that, so far from
shortening the distance between Harwich and the metropolis, the
advantages of the two lines were about equal ; but between Har-
wich and Ipswich the Eastern Union line had a great advantage over
its rival, in so far as it shortened the distance by six miles. It
shortened, in fact, the present distance between Harwich and Ips-
wich, which was nineteen miles by six miles. It must
be remembered too that formerly parties wishing to go from
Harwich to the midland counties, and the centre of Eng-
land, had to go round by way of London, but this he hoped
:would never eceur again ; indeed it could not, for there was a, lin,e
thA3 Eoritk oroorfitraction from IpsWich to,. fury St :Edmund's,
which was now reported to be extended to Norwich and Cambridge;--
passing by way of Stowmarket and other important towns, and
between all these places and Harwich the distance by the
line he was now advocating would be shortened by six
miles. It was clear, therefore, that the Eastern Union line
was upon broad merits the best of the two ; but some inci-
dental opposition had been raised to it, by bringing forward some-
thing which had taken place with respect to the Admiralty. Now,
he wished to have this point cleared up. He would admit that
the Admiralty could stop the construction of this portion of the
the project; but the Committee ought to discard this consideration,
and look at the two Bills and decide upon either upon its merits, as
adduced by evidence. This was the course adopted last session in
the case of the Great Western and South Wales Railway, which
proposed to cross the Severn a little below Gloucester, by means of a
bridge,, planned by Mr. Brunel; but the Admiralty, who were
extremely jealous of schemes which could be in any way supposed
to obstruct the navigation of the Severn, objected to this bridge.
The Committee, however, saw that the proposed line would be of
great public advantage, and they determined upon reporting to the
House in favour of this railway, including the project for the bridge ;
but the Admiralty's objection was supported by the Government, and
the consequence was that the Bill was ordered to be re-
committed. Accordingly the Bill was recommitted, and
the Committee again reported in favour of the Bill,
leaving out the bridge. It was afterwards sanctioned by the
Legislature, and now the line was being made without the bridge.
Now that was precisely the course which the present Committee
ought to adopt. Let them report on the merits of the two Bilis, and
if they did so, he was sure they would decide in favour of the Eastern
Union line. Now with regard to the matter of the Admiralty, he
contended that the Board of Admiralty had given no adverse deci-
sion in respect of the Eastern Union line, but he would admit that they
had declined to receive a deputation from its promoters. But it was
said that the Admiralty had sanctioned the rival line, and if they
had, he could assure the Committee, that if such were the case, it
must "apply only to the pier at Harwich; and if the Com-
mittee would just look at the plan, they would see that
Mr. Locke had so prepared thew, that he could make Mr.
Braithwaite's pier within his own limits of deviation. But
without wishing to impute anything improper to the Admiralty, he
complained that if they had given any opinion at all in favour of
the rival line they had arrived at that opinion through ex parte
statements and ex parte information. It was just as if the judge
had called in the plaintiff and the jury into a private room, and there
decided the case in the absence of the defendant, and when
the poor
tea defendant applied for permission to urge his
defence, instead of obtaining a hearing, the door was slammed in his
face. lie could not help thinking, therefore, that the Board of Ad-
miralty's opinion in favour of the rival line had been obtained through-
the mancenvring of the promoters; Indeed, the correspodence which
had passed between the promoters and the Admiralty bore out this
conclusion. The Committee, he trusted, would throw overboard this
opinion, and decide upon the merits of the two Bills. If.they did so,
he was satisfied they could not do otherwise than pass the Eastern
Union Bill, because the evidence preponderated in its favour.
Evidence of a general character was then adduced in favour of the
line. Witnesses from Manningtree, Ipswich, and Harwich, were
called to prove that the Eastern Union line would afford more ac-
commodation to those towns than the Harwich and Eastern Counties
Junction line.
Mr. Ransom, an extensive ironmonger at Ipswich, who was well
acquainted with the trade of the East Anglican districts, preferred
the Eastern Union line, because while it gives a direct communi-
cation with the metropolis, It also shortened the distance between
Harwich and Ipswich. At present, the steam-boat communication
between those places was extremely uncertain.
On cross-examinathm, the witness admitted that there was a
project before the present Committee, known as the Stour Valley
Railway, which would carry that traffic from the midland counties
and the north, altogether away from Ipswich, but he thought it
would be more advantageous to take the traffic through Ipswich.
The Stour Valley line ran to Sudbury. The local authorities of
Ipswich had laid out 120,0001. in the improvement of the port, and
it was altogether a rival port with Harwich.
The Committee adjourned, at four o'clock, until one o'clock on
Monday.

Suli-Cemmitte No. 2. •
BRITISH AND IRISH UNION RAILWAY.
(Continued froth our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Several allegations were abandoned, and some were admitted.
The nett class of allegations was to the effect that the lands, &c.,
on the line were not numbered OR the plans.
some instances of the alleged omission were adduced and sus-
tained, which concluded the case for the petition.
The Committee found that in the case of this Bill the standing
orders had not been complied with.
GREAT EASTERN AND WESTERN.
The object of this Bill was to connect the iron district of South
Wales with Herefordshire and the maufacturing districts of Stafford-
shire. The length of the line was about seventy miles, and the
amount of capital 1,2,30,000/. Engineer, Mr. Griffin; Parliamentary
agents, Messrs. Burke and Co.
There were two petitions against the Bill.
Mr. BURKE said that, with respect to one part of the formal proofs,
he had to solicit the indulgence of the Committee. It was that which
related to depositing the plans. These plans had unfortunately not
been deposited until the lit of December, in consequence of the illness
of the engineer, who broke down through physical debility; but he

at each mill to wash of that postaer. 'The contents of the magazines was prepared to produce evidence to show that neither money nor
are removed by water. The "Ore Creek" comes close up to the mill. labour had been spared to make the deposits as soon as possible.
By Mr, Sergeant WRANGRAM —The powder, when in the state After some deliberation the CHAIRJEAN (Mr. E. Yorke) agreed to
called the " green charge," is r a explosive as the manufactured hear the evidence in question.
powder.. The magazines are built much stronge^ than the mills, in I Evidence was then given that all due diligence had been used by
Ural to IteeP the powder safe. There is a s.eam-engine at work the promoters, who had succeeded in depositing their plaits before the
near the Osprich Mild. It is about la yards distant, with its boiler, office hours on the Ist of December.
chimney, and furnace. Mr. Hall resides in d cottage about 60 Mr. Shepherd, a surgeon,residing at,Towcester, was also examined—
Tards from the mills. There is also a gas factory within 60 He stated that he attended Mr. Garvatt, at that time engineer of the
yards of the mills. There is a steam-engine on the Company, at Worcester, in October. Mr. Garvatt was labouring
premises called: the Bennett Mills, which. contain from 50 under a severe disease, ealculated to produce nervous irritation, and
to 70 barrels of powder in the charge house. 0ne....0f the charge was quite unfitted to attend to his business.
houses abuts on the public road, but the wails of it are *built very Cross-examined—On the 30th of October and 2d of November Mr.
thick near the road, and very thin on the inside, so ;as to direct the Garvatt was able to go to London and to attend business, and during
explosion away from the public. • Explosions have taken place in his attendance he found him with maps and other documents before
nearly every mill, but no explosion has extended its influence to the him, and surrounded by clerks.
distance of 109 yards. At a distance of 50 yards windows have been The Camastattagd, that as far as the fact went they must find
broken, but that is the extreme distance at which' he has known that the standing orders had not been complied with, with reference
damage to be • done. The end of the mill facing the magazine or to their non-deposits of the plans in the proper time. The mitigating
charge house is made strong, and no explosion has hitherto reached circumstances might be stated above 'Stara.
the powder contained in it. About 401bs. of powder are placed The other formal proofs were then proceeded with and couclgded.
under the runners at a time. One of the -petitions had relation to the non-deposit of the plans, all*
Captain Tulloch, of the Royal Artillery, stated that he is super- was therefore not pressed.
intendent of the Government powder mills at Waltham Abbey. The air. BAXTER, solicitor, appeared for the next petition, from John
green charge is very explosive, but the mill cake is much more so. Colburn, which stated that he was one of the subscribers to the
In 1843 au explosion occurred, which destroyed a counting-house 216 Company.
The first allegation was that the plan originally proposed to go
yards distant from the ignited powder.
Mr. AUSTIN was proceeding to cross-examine this witness, when from Yarmouth to Swansea, whereas it now proposed to effect a
The announcement was made that the Speaker was at prayers, and junction with the Vale of Neath Railway, and, therefore, that the
Cenimittee adjourned until twelve o'clock on Monday. petitioner was exonerated from all liability.
The Committee decided that in this case the standing orders had
been complied with.
An allegation with reference to an error in the supplemental con-
tract was sustained.
The Committee then adjourned.

Sub-Committee No 4.
WIIITEEIAVEN AND FURNESS JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yoatorday.)
Other allegations of a similar nature were sustained.
In the case of another petition, the CHAIRMAN expressed a doubt
that the petitioner was entitled to be heard unless he had a direct or
indirect interest in property within the limits of deviation.
Mr. PRITT submitted that in other Committees in had been ruled
that any person could petition on behalf the public.
The point was ultimately reserved, and the Committee adjourned.

Sub-Committee No. 5.
TIIETFORD, BURY ST. EDMUNDS, AND NEWMARKET.
(Continueel from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
The next allegation was that no notice had been served on the
surveyor et-highways in respect of a certain road which would be
crossed by the line. The surveyor himself was called to prove that
he had received no notice, and the Committee declared the allegation
proved, no evidence being given on the other side.
The remaining allegation of this petition were utterly uninteresting
to the public.
The petition of David Barty and others was next taken. It de-
pended chiefly on discrepancies in the gradients, &c.
Several of the allegations were dismissed, as not being properly
worded, and several were declared to be proved. The Committee
refused to admit several objections as to minute discrepancies in the
• -
plans.
It appeared in the course of the day that the petitioner, Mr.
Barty, was the secretary of a rival railway company.
Only one allegation of the next petition, that of a Mr. Benton, was
entered into, the others being identical with those of Mr. Barty's
petition.
This allegation was that the junction of the proposed line with the
Norfolk Railway was'ditThrently marked in the plans and sections, its
distance from the principal station not being the same. This allega-
tion was delared proved.
After disposing of several otherpoints, the Committee gays their
decision that the, standing orders were not complied with.
They then rose at four o'clock, and adjourned to Monday at

STANDING ORDERS' COMMITTEES.
HOUSE-OF LORDS.
(Continued from our Afternoon. Edition of yesterday.)
CLONMEL AND THURLES RAILWAY.
This case was adjourned for the want of one witness, who was not
in attendance. The length of this important line is 38% milesi
including a branch to St. Civardagh Colliery. The capital of the
Company is 400,0004 Solicitors to the lir.e, Sir Matthew Barrington,
Son, and Company.
GREAT SOUTHERN AND WESTERN EXTENSION AT CORK.
The formal proofs having been entered in this case, the Committee
adjourned it until Monday neat, in order to give themselves time to
consider what quantity of land they should allow for the bundling of
a station at Cork. The promoters sought for fifty acres, and it was
urged that thirty would be sufficient.
The following lines were then adjourned to give time for the ex-
amination of certain clauses in their respective Bills:
MALLOW AND KILLARNEY ; OMA.GII, DUNGANNON, AND
PORTSDOWN ; AND TUE DUBLIN, BELFAST, AND COLE-
RAINE RAILWAY.
In the case of the London and York Railway, their Lordships inti-
mated that they would further adjourn their decision until Tuesday
next.
Their Lordships adjourned until Monday next.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Sub-Committee, No. 3.
(Continued front our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
THE LESMAIIAGOW, DALWLSERF, AND COATBRIDGE
RAILWAY
was allowed to be proceeded with.
NEWPORT, ABERGAVENNY, AND HEREFORD RAILWAY
was also allowed to be proceeded with.
BIRMINGHAM, LICHFIELD, AND MANCHESTER
was also allowed to be proceeded with.
BEDFORD AND CAMBRIDGE RAILWAY
was not allowed to be proceeded with..
The Committee then adjourned till Tuesday next.

Sub-Committee, No. a. Cr "
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
MIDLAND (CLAYCROSS TO NEWARK) RAILWAY.
The object of this line is-to construct a branch from the Midland
Railway at Claycross to the Nottingham and Mansfield Railway at
Newark. Estimated cost, 580,0001. ; Parliamentary agents, Messrs,
Burke and Co. ; tngineeers, Messrs. Stephenson and Swanwich.
The formal proofs having been given by Mr. Grubb.
The Committee postponed the further consideration of the case till
Tuesday to hear the advice of Mr. Cramp and Mr. Charles Lee. The
case will be the first taken on Tuesday.
MIDLAND (NOTTINGHAM TO MANSFIELD) RAILWAY.
The projectors of-this line propose by it to connect Nottingham and
Mansfield—the distance being 16 miles. "Estimated.cost, 275,000/. ;
Parliamentary agents, Messrs. Burke and Co.; englneere, Messrs.
Stephenson and Swanwich.
The formal proofs having been given, a question arose as to the
publication of the required notices for three successive weeks in the
months of October and November last, and as to the delivery of the
notice at the office of the Gazette two clear days previous to the time
that would allow of these three successive publications. It appeared
that in this case one publication took place in December.
Mr. VENABLES contended that, although the last notice did not
appear till December, he was prepared to prove that the notice was
delivered in sufficient time to allow of the three successive publi-
cations.
The Committee did not think this a satisfactory answer, and re-
ported that it amounted to a non-compliance.
WEST CORNWALL RAILWAY.
7.:The objeet of this line is to connect Kenwyn, In the county of
Cornwall, with Penzance, a distance of 45 miles. Estimated cost,
500,000/. ; Parliamentary agents, Me.ssrs. Burke and Co. ; engineer,
Mr. W. Johnson.
Ihe formal proofs having been given, the further consideration of
the case was postponed till Tuesday. .
The Committee adjourned at four o'clock.

- -
FRIDAY NIGHT'S GAZETTE.
WAR-OFFICE, Mancil 27, 1846.
4th Dragoon Guards-Lieut. T. 0. W. Coster, to be Cap-
tain, by purchase, vice Rochfort, who retires ; Cornet F. H. G.
Nicolls, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Coster, March 27.
Bth Light Dragoons-Lieut. A. C. Lindsay, to be Captain,
by purchase, vice Jenkinson,who retires; Lieut. J. S. Naylor,
from the 83d Foot, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice
Lindsay, March 27.
16th Light Dragoons-Cornet G. B. Williams to be Lieu-
tenant, by purchase, vice Leigh, o retires ;I. N. Fello ews,
Gent. to be Cornet,- by purchase, who retires ; I. N. Fellowes,
Gent. to beCornet by purchase, vice Williams, March 27.
• Ist or Grenadier Regiment. of Foot Guards-Captain C.
Randall, from half-pay unattached, to be Lieutenant and
Captain, vice Brevet-Major Somerset, died of his wounds ;
Ensign and Lieutenant C. L. B. Maitland to be Lieutenant
and Captain, by purchase, vice Randall, who retires ; J.
Evelyn, Gent., to be Ensign and Lieutenant, by purchase,
vice Alaitland, March 26.
Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards-Ensign and Lieut.
J. R. Wigram to be Lieutenant and Captain, by purchase,
vice the Earl of Caledon, who retires; U. Canning Lord
Dunkellin to be Ensign and Lieutenant, by purchase, vice
Wigram, March 27. •
2d Regiment of Foot-Capt. A, Campbell, from the Royal
Canadian Rifle Regiment, to be Captain, vice Hamilton, who
exchanges, March 27.
3d Foot-Captain J. T. Liston, from the Bth Foot, to be
Captain, vice Speedy, who exchanges, March 27.
sth Foot-Second Lieutenant H. Knapp to be First Lieu-
tenant, by purchase, vice Gretton, who retires; F. H.rca v. Pen-
ice
der, Gent., to be Second Lieutenant, by pu
Knapp, March 27.
6th Foot-Lieutenant G. G. Webb, from half-pay 2d
Foot, to be Lieutenant, vice Muller, promoted.
7th Foot-Lieut. W. R. Browne to be Captain, by pur-
chase, vice Cummin, who retires; Ensign W. H. D. Fitz-
gerald, from the 72d Foot, to be Lieutenant, by purchase,
vice Browne, March 27.
Bth Foot-Capt. James Speedy, from'3d Foot, to be Captain,
vice Liston, who exchanges ; Lieut. C. F. B. G. Dickenson
to be Captain, by purchase, vice Lavie, who retires ; Ensign
R. S. Baynes to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Dickens o ;
Gent. Cadet H. Xiinenes, from the Royal Military College,
to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Baynes ; Surgeon J. C. G.
Tice, from 69th Foot, to be Surgeon, vice Gardiner, who ex-
changes, March 27.
12th Foot-Lieutenant W. H. Queade, from the 40th Foot,
to be Lieutenant, vice S. Reed, who retires ou half-pay,
March 27.
28th Foot-Lieutenant J. G. R. Alpin, to be Captain, with-
out purchase, vice Brevet-Major Hunter, deceased; Ensign
F. G. Moore, to be Lieutenant, vice Al pin ; Nov. 20, 1845.
50th Foot-Assistant-Surgeon C. F. Stephenson, M.D.,
from the Ist Foot, to be Assistant-Surgeon, vice Brummell,
whose appointment has bee cancelled, March 27.
54th Foot-Lieut. A. Gillespie, from half-pay 2d Foot, to
be Lieutenant, vice Jackson, appointed Paymaster of the 6th
Dragoon Guards.
61st Foot-Captain J. B. Thomas to be Major, without
purchase, vice Verner, deceased ; Lieut. T. W. Hudson to be
Captain, without purchase, vice Thomas ; Ensign A. Arm-
strong to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Hudson,
Dec. 7.
64th Foot-Lieut. the Hon. G. F. W. Yelverton, to be
Captain, by purchase, vice Stirling, whe retires ; Ensign
J. B. Burne, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Yelverton ;
W. W. Pogeon, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice
Burne, March 27.
66th Foot-Lieut. F. Gildea, from half-pay 2d Foot; to be
Lieutenant, vice F. Smythe, who exchanges, March 27.
69th Foot-Surgeon W. Gardiner, from the Bth Foot, to be
Surgeon, vice Tice, who exchanges, March 27.
70th Foot-Ensign F. W. Dowse, to be Lieutenant, with-
out purchase, vice Rutson, who resigns ; J. A. Fead, Gent.,
to be Ensign, vice Dowse, March 27.
62d Foot-W. A. H. N. Kellett, Gent., to be Ensign, by
purchase, vice Fitzgerald, promoted to the 7th Foot,
March 27.
73d Foot-Lieut. W. C. O'Brien, from the 40th Foot, to
be Lieutenant, vice D'Arcey, promoted, March 27.
87th Foot-Second Lieut. 3. H. le Conteur to be First
Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Robinson, who ti
rch reres ; E.
Stanley, Gent., to be Second Lieutenant, by puase, vice
le Conteur, March 27.
92d Foot-Lieutenant W. Alexander, from half-pay 24th
Light Dragoons, to be Lieutenant, vice R. Petley, who ex-
changes ; Ensign A. W. Cameron to be Lieutenant, by pur-
chase, vice Alexander, who retires; Gentleman Cadet A.
M'Donald, from the Royal Military College, to be En-
sign, by purchase, vice Cameron, March 27.
Royal Canadian Rifle Regiment-Captain G. V. Hamilton,
from the 2d Foot, to be Captain, vice Campbell, who ex-
changes, March 27.
Baevrr.-Captain C. Randall, of the Ist or Grenadier
Regiment of Foot Guards, to be Major in the Army, July 22,
1830 ; Capt. T. F. Tait, of the 2d Bengal European Regiment,
to be Major in the Army in the East Indies, March 27.
Rosin-nu, STAFF.-11. C. Martin, Gent., to be Assistant •
Surgeon to the Forces, vice Hardie, who has absented him-
self without leave, March 20.
MEMORANDUM.-STAFF.-The date of the commission of
Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel J. B. Gough, of the 3d Light
Dragoons, to be Quartermaster-General to the Queen's Forces
in the East Indies, is 20th March, 1846.
The Christian names of Assistant-Surgeon Innes, of the
4th Dragoon Guards, are John Harry Ker.
Commissions by the Lord-Lieutenaut of Lanark.
Sir W. C. Anstruther, Bart., to be Deputy-Lieutenant, Feb.
28 ;
_J. Lumsden, Esq„ to be Deputy-Lieutenant„. Feb.
F..
H. Vere, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant, March 2 ; T. Wal-
rond, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant ; H. Dunlop,
Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant, March 3 ; T. M.
McNeill Hamilton, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant,
March 4; J. Finlay, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant; Sir J.
Campbell, Knt., to be Deputy- Lieutenant ; J. Hamilton, Esq.,
to be Deputy-Lieutenant; 3. Dunlop, Esq., to be Deputy-
Lieutenant : A. Buchanan, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant,
March 6.
BANKRUPTS.
Jolty Charles Barratt, ewer and gilder, Strand, to our-
,