The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-22 00:00:00

aortae nocesoary, anti that nn stairs was thrown upon Mr. Day's
character' The Hon. Member then went on to say that M j
r.
Nicholls had ascribed Mr. Day's dismissal to his not being
equal to the duties of the office. The House can conceive
what must have been Mr. Day's astonishment when, after hav-
ing received the letter calling upon him to resign witwithina
fortnight of the date of that letter, he heard from Mr. Nicholls
that the establishment was reduced, and that Colonel Wade
had been appointe,l to succeed him in the office which he
held as Assistant-Commissioner. Colonel Wade had
been appointed to succeed him, and he was rather inclined
to think that the prolongation of the appointment had been
made to suit Colonel Wade's convenience. Mr. Day had con-
tinued to act as Assistant-Commissioner for nearly two months
after he had received the letter requesting him to resign ; and
in order to complete the inconsistency which had been dis-
played throughout this transaction, it would appear that, from a
period extending from the 31st of March to the 18th of April,
the district over which Mr. Day had presided was left with-
out any superintendence. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
had stater, that no fault wag att ributaale to him, but no reason
had been given for being so peremptorily called upon to resign.
It could not have been that it was intended to reduce the
number of the officers employed, or to reduce the establi.h-
meat of the Poor-law Commission ; why, there had
been no reduction in the Assistant Commissioners,
and the Board had, in fact, been materially increased
by the appointment of a fourth Chief Commissioner.
The Hon. Gentleman then read a letter which Mr. Day had
addressed so the Duke of Wellington, when he found that he
could not succeed in obtaining redress elsewhere. The letter
complained that Mr. Day had been dismissed; but with the
mere excuse—a vague generality of public service and public
duty--the public would not feel that he had been dismissed
without a cause, on the contrary, they would entertain suspi-
cions that some charge was reserved against him. The Hon.
Gentleman then resumed by reading a motion, of which he
had given notice, and proceeded to say there would be no im-
propriety in referring this subject to a Committee of Inquiry.
There existed great similarity between the case of Mr. Day
and the case of Mr. Parker, which had been brought before
the House. With respect to Mr. Day, he had repeatedly
applied to the Poor-law Commissioners without obtaining any
satisfactory reply. Assisting Commissioners had been dis-
missed at different times under circumstances which exposed
them to the most disagreeable suspicions. There had been na
disturbance about Mr. Day's case, all had been conducted with
the strictest propriety, and he felt that both Mr. Day and Mr.
Parker had met great injustice at the hands of the
Commissioners. His belief was, that when these
two cases, with all the facts connected with them,
should come before the puhlie, it would be quite
impossible that the House could again vote the salaries
of the Poor-las Commissioners without having first investi-
gated an inquiry into their genes al mode of administering the
poor-laws of the country. The House was probably aware of
the mode in which the Rochdale board of guardians had been
justified by a decision of the Court of Queen's Bench, in
disobeying an order of the Poor-law Commissioners. They
had been compelled, after every imaginary fencing on the part
of their counsel, at last reluctantly to confess that they were
in error. They were obliged to admit that the general order,
addressed to the Rochdale board of guardians, was illegal, inas-
much that, after having been signed by one commissioner, it
was carried by a messenger to Mr. Lewis, to receive a second
signature. If then the Commissioners were wrong in one case,
the natural inference would be that they were also wrong in
other cases, which escaped the public notice. He believed
that if a Committee were appointed to inquire into the
general mode of administering the Poor-law Amendment Act,
there would be no difficulty in proving that much mismange-
ment existed. It would be found that the Poor-law Commis-
sioners had neglected to comply with many of the provisions
contained in the Poor-law Amendment Act. In the Rochdale
case, for instance, where there was an order required for the
signature of two Poor-law Commissioners, it had been signed
by one commissioner, and then by the secretary, which ren-
dered the order ineffective, inasmuch as it was not complying
with the express provision of the Act. The services of the
secretary, as recording officer, had been in a measure entirely
dispensed with. He (Mr. Christie) had always been a strong
friend of the Poor-law Amendment Act, and had always voted
for it. The object of his present motion was not directed
against the poor-laws, but against the Poor-law Commissioners.
He could not tell what would be the result of the present
motion, but whatever it might be, he felt sure that the state-
ments he had made would go forth to-morrow to the public,
and they would be the judges. They would draw this inference
from the cases of Mr. Day and Mr. Parker, that no officer
attached to the Poor-law Commissioners was at present safe
from the arbitrary manner in which the Commissioners exerted
their power.
The motion was then read from the Chair, when
Sir JAMES GRAHAM rose and said he could assure the
s • Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, that it
• he had taken the opportunity of asking him whether or not it
• • was his intention to oppose the motion before the House, he
(Sir James Graham) should have inform, it him that it was
not his intention to have opposed it. On a former occasion he
had told the House that in his opinion it was utterly impossible
for the Poor-law Commissioners properly to discharge their
duties, unless they possessed the unfettered liberty of discharg-
ing their Assistant Commissioners, and other officers, whenever
they thought praper, without being held responsible to any
other power. He had come to the fixed conclusion that the
case of \lr. Parker had been thoroughly inquired into, and he
could nut see any distinction between that case and the case of
Mr. Day. The Hou-e had decided by a majority on a former
occasion, and it was not his intention to call upon the House to
come to a division on the present occasion. He was willing at
once to accede to the motion of the Hoe. Gentleman. The
Hon. Gentleman hail animadverted upon certain circumstances
which had nothirg whatever to do with this case. With
respect to the Rochdale Board of Guardiaris, he believed that
there had been an error in that case, but it was
not his intention at present to go into that matter.
The Hon. Gentleman had also said that the proceedings of
the Poor-law Commissioners in the case of Mr. Parker and
Mr. Day could not be justified. He had every reason to be-
lieve that the Commissioners had exercised their power in
those cases with great discretion. It was possible that the
superintendents of the districts might, in their opinion, be
placed under the superintendence of a person who, on the
whole, might be considered as more adequate to discharge the
duties. But he (Sir James Graham) did not wish to institute
any comp,aettp_rr betweetl4ll.lr. Day and Culonel Wae. He,
for his own pirtYlitd no partiality whatever ford Colonel
Wade, and, in fact, was unacquainted with him, and was also
unacquainted with Mr. Day ; he could, therefore, decide with
perfect indifference between them. All that he could say was,
that with respect to any part which he had taken in this trans-
action, that he had not been guided in any way by shmete,
favour and partiality to one more than anetas„ it was neces-
sary ttary to preshhtsitit'ne ser~i t 5. ^eon^Puce to particular
appointing ,-,nonie tfey pleased to the superintendence. He
(Sir James Graham), for one, would consent to the produc-
tion
of all correspondence and papers relative to this trans-
action. He was fully prepared to make the most ample and
unreserved explanation with respect to the circumstances that
had occurred in reference to the resigration of Mr. Day as
Assistant Commissioner. Under these circumstances, he
should not feel justified in opposing the motion of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman.
The motion was then put from the Chair, and agreed to
without a division.
Mr. CHRISTIE said that the Right Hon. Baronet had
given no explanation of his intended reduction of the number
of Assistant Poor-law Commissioners, as stated in the letter
written by him.
Sir .1. GRAHAM' said, that when he wrote that letter he
did contemplate a reduction of the number- of Assistant Poor-
law Commissioners.
MAL-PRACTICES IN THE GENERAL POST-
OFFICE.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said, that he would ask if it was the
intention of Government to accede to the motion he was about
to make. He would not loog occupy the time of the House,
if the Government intended to accede to it, but if it
was their'
intention to oppose the motion he was about to
submit, he
would throw himself upon the House
and request it, if he
made out a case for inquiry, to give' him its support. He
could not conceive any public, department in this country that
it was more necessary for
the House to examine and inquire into
than the General Post-office. At the close of last session he
had brought forward this
(.:,,omquestion,. but it came almost too
late. He had asked for a
mmei Commission on to inquire into the
manner in which that establish
wasanaed. With re-
gard to the complaints attached to the al Post-office, he
believed that there was no public office ienoutnhle:itiSbcountry, agaigst
lleged. The
which greater cause of dissatisfaction
complaints were not only outside the walls of tLat department,
but they existed to an alarming and discreditableboeuxttentot
t 0
00 havei
within its walls. The petition to which hoerdpieras
call the attention of the House, in
it referred to a Committee, showed
all sorts of mal-administration. The public complained of this
department of the public service in consequence or the delay
in the delivery of letters. He could prove that, but for certain
mal-practices going on in the office, the public would have
their letters half-an-hour sooner in this city. There existed
also a considerable amount of dissatisfaction in the office at the
manner in which the officers were treated by their superiors,
and also at the manner in which the carriers and sorters were
remunerated. If any subordinate officer had any complaint to
snake to the Postmaster-General, he had no chance of reaching
the ears of that gentleman, because it had to go through certain
channels, where it would be misrepresented or stopped, so that
the men were afraid to make any complaint for fear of sus-
pension. The petition to which he would call the attention
of the House was from Mr. Duncan, a gentleman of great
respectability, and proprietor of the Sentinel newspaper. He
had been at the trouble to examine the allegations contained in
that petition, and there was not one of them he was not pre-
pared to support and verify on evidence. Mr. Duncan had
given offence to the Post-office by some charge he had made
against them, and which appeared in the Sentinel newspaper.
It was alleged that those statements were libelloue and two
actions had been brought by Mr. Kelly, tke superintendent of
the letter-carrier department. One of the actions was brought
in June last, anti the result was, that after being held in
abeyance for some tittle, thinking to alarm the proprietor of the
newspaper, and hinder him from persevering in his attack, the
costs were paid, anti the action sees withdrawn. 'They thought
that having shown this merciful consideration to Mr. Dencan
he would not again molest them ; but he repeated his original
assertion, and a second action was brought, which action was
held over as long as it possibly could ; the costs were again
paid, and it was withdrawn. If that action had been 3:i11 pend-
ing, it would he his duty not to make any reference to the pre-
to
sent ; but as it had been abandoned, he was at liberty
discuss any of the assertions contained. Mr. Duncan com-
menced by stating that there were many abuses in the General
Post-office in St. Martin's le Grand—that complaints had been
held back—and that practice- had continued for many years.
He (Mr. Ducombe) wass in hopes that what he had said last
year would have caused improvement, but they had only
put on a few more hands, inefficient for their duty, and there
had been some improvementit e salary of the sub-sorters
but if the Post-office authorities
pposed that they were satis-
ressed, they were mis-
fied, and that they were still to bsue
perincipal cause of delay
taken. The petition stated thaatprtOih,PeaPt
post.ozunpdleoryteadkTogiwt.ithTthhee
in the delivery of letters was
office, by some of the persons o,sfiecially
Directory,'' and
undertaking was called " Kelly
and he
he had no hesitation in saying that it was a e
was ready to prove before a Committee thagtrnZ
of lucre-
jiPbrivate un-
dertaking converted a public establishment into t
tire printing-office ; and so long as that undertaking remained,
so long would there he discontent in the establinshgment and
corruption, oppression, and tyranny, and go
long would the
public be injured. The petition stated that in the compilation
of this Directory the earriers and sub-sorters were engaged
during the time in which they should be performing their
public duties. It would not do for the Government simply
to
deny his assertion, or to attempt to screen the parties,
could prove that they were engaged in this work during theer hr
So
whole year round, and the servants of the Posteeesce
beginning to prepare the '° Directory " for the year 1847. 80
much were the carriers and sorters occupied that, when the
pressure of public business made it necessary, the authorities
sent to Boswell-court, Chancery-lane, where this work was pre-
pared, to get them back to the Post-office ; and thus many
letters were' delayed. A strong instance of this occurred the
other day. 'lt was well known that this large book, for which
they paid 305., came out at the commencement of the year,
and there was a " Supplemental Directory," which came out
in March. He knew that on the day when this supplemental
carne out it was delivered to the letter-carriers and the letters
were detainer' at the office half an hour for the ilelivert of this
work Letters and new,papers had lain in the office fur a
week and ten days in con equence of the confusion attendant
on getiitig up that work. The Indian mail had came in that
MOnliDg, it had been delayed by the lviv of the Great Liver-

presol, and came up in the Oriental, ten' daya after. Letters
and papers were thrown on one side, as the delivery of that
wark aid not permit their delivery. There were papers for the
North and South American Coffee-house—for the Jerusal. m
Coffee-house—for Grindley and Co., Cernnill, and various
others; and it appeared that all those letters were detained in
censequente of that work, or job, whichever it was called.
The letter-carriers had been threatelied to be reported if they
did not. assist in the, delivery of the work, however attentive
they might have been to their public duties. He (Mr. T.
Duncombe) did not believe that the Postmaster-general was
acquainted with those facts. In answer to his observations
it would be said that these letter-carriers collected the informa-
tion for the work oat of official hours. He was happy to say
that such an answer would be quite false, for the information
was collected during the delivery of the letters. They might
be told that these men had an interest in collecting this infor-
mation. They had a commission on the sale of the work—a
fact very discreditable to the establishment.—( Hear, hear.)
Let them have a fair remuneration for their labour, and let
them no' be paid by this paltry, miserable, jobbing work. It
was well known that the parties who had the least possible
chance of anything like favour in she Post-office were those
Iwf•htohecoleutltder-sl
eeat most o
rtiersdidf tnhe ot
collect
of lI
lecttheleinsfsoris Kelly and Co.
m.
atinn
regnired,
fort,lmertmheeint
wweeerke,spueat
ronniningst.heiTr
hpelacpeest,itainondesrofuniritihcherwstaastestopped
from their week's earnings. The petitioner further stated that
isinwko,tikia.pervc,ripiaetnst,i&ghct.,hwaderethefiyeetlyn
asth
usedt p
foru's it ch
es tpour er
is),o,seurcohf
use the public stores ? And it was nkt stated by the petitioner
that the revenue had been defrauded, by means of the sending
out of the circulars for this work by the letter-cart iers, with-
out paying the stamp duties Would the public be satisfied
with such a proceeding as this? It was a fraud on the revenue.
The petitioner also stated that Mr. Frederick Kelly had in-
structed the letter-carriers how to evade the Hawking Act on ,1
the sale of the " Directory." The books were left at the doors
of gentlemen, and if they were not at home the book was left.
If the money was given for it, nothing further was said about
it; but if no money was forth-coming the book was removed.
He said that this was hawking. Mr. Kelly had also, on his
own authority, stopped the wages of letter-carriers for debts
due to Kelly and Co. by the letter-carriers on account of this
Directory, and the petitioner also stated that he had witheld
the resignations of letter-carriers until he had paid himself for
the debts due by those carriers. He could prove cases whete
the resignation of letter-carriers had been detained because the
individual owed Mr. Kelly money, Mr. Kelly saying that he
would not give in the resignation until he was paid ; and the
letter-carrier doing no worst, let it be recollected. He said that
such a proceeding was a fraud on the revenue—( Hear, hear)
—and it was discreditable for the Government to sanction or
protect a person of this sort. There are also 150 copies of the
Directory sold for the use of the letter-carriers, and paid for
out of the revenue, at the same time that the use of the work
was forbidden to the letter-carriers, on the ground of its occa-
sioning loss of time to the person using them. The work was
soil, but never used, as the looking for the address would oc-
cupy so much time that orders were given that they
were not to be used. Let the Government not come
down and say, as a defence, that these volumes
were necessary as guides for the delivery of the letters.
This monopoly hail been the means of ruining various parties
who had attempted to get up Post-office Directories, and the
public were in consequent deprived of the benefit of competi-
tion. He wished to know why it was that the public were to
be deprived of the benefit of this competition ? The effect was
that the public had to pay 30s. for the Post-office Directory,
which any bookseller in Paternoster-row could, if the same
advantages were given them that were given Mr. Kelly, supply
for 12s. 6d. It was a just ground of complaint, that the public
could have for 12s. or 15s. that for which they now paid 30s.
—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Robson, who hod attempted to publish
a Directory, had been ruined by the interference of the Post-
office authorities; and by a return which had been made to the
House, it appeared that Mr. Kelly had purchased the copy right
of Mr. Robson's work. Now he ( lit, Duncombe) had
received a letter from a friend of Mr. Robson,
which threw some light on that transaction. ( The
Hon. Gentleman here read the letter in question, which
was to the effect, that Mr. Robson had been driven to ruin
and insanity, and his property destroyed, through the undue
influence of the Pest-office authorities, and that he had in con-
sequence died in a workhouse. Mr. Robson applied to the
Post-office authorities to place him on the same footing with
Mr. Kelly, but he did not succeed in the application, and
though he had gone to enormous expense in getting up his work,
he was obliged to abandon it, and part with it to Mr. Kelly
under most disadvantages circumstances. This letter was
signed by Mr. Knapp. On the return to which he (Mr.
Duncombe) had alluded, it was set forth that Mr. Kelly
bought the copyright of Mr. Robson, and in the puff issued by
Mr. Kelly, it was said that Mr. Robson's Directory, in 1840,
contained a number c f blunders, which he explained and
pointed out. But if the House would give him (Mr. Duncombe)
a Committee, he would engage to prove that in the Directory of
last year there were not less than 16,000 errors. —t Hear, hear. )
I his was in the Directory so much puffed, and which had
now total possession of the field. All the rival Directories had
failed, and were given up, and this was the only Directory in
London—of course the only one that could exist under the
present system, it being impossible to compete against Mr.
Kelly, with the Post-office servants at his back, to assist him.
In the mean time the public were suffering. But let them look
at the dissatisfaction that prevailed among the servants of the
establishment From 400 to 500 individuals there were almost
in a state of insubordination, arising from the duties imposed
on them in reference to this Directory. That alone was a
fact that should show the dangerous state of the establishment.
He had had several deputations of the men waiting on him, in
reference to this matter, within the last fortnight ; and they
in'imated that any morning they could bring 200 or
300 of them to wait on him (Mr. Duncombe) to prove
the state of feeling in the establishment.—(A laugh.) This
was a bad, a dangerous, and improper state of things. He
had received a letter that morning, in reference to an alledged
improvement of feeling that had recently taken place among
the sub-sorters. It was represented that a memorial had been
got up among the sub-sorters to the Lords of the Treasury,
expressing thanks at the improvement made in their remu-
neration, and declaring that they had no participation in the
ca!umnious placards and statements that had been put forth in
reference to the management of affairs in the Post-office. Now
the letter he had received gave the true particulars of this, and
denied that this step was taken by any member of the sub-
sorters, but that it was got up by only a few. A few days
after it was got up it was sent round for signatures, when
atter the strongest representations 25 signed out of 70. This
very much excited Mr. Robert Kelly, and a sob-sorter of
the n ime of Roberts, was charged, in consequence, with
some mal-practice. It was proved, however, that Roberts was
,oitt, of ct.s oierge, though at the time Mr. Betonell, one
of the officers of the establishment, 4 .••
a dozen of -•-• tiear, hear.) Nothing would
give satisfaction but the appointment of a Committee of in-
vestigation. There were many other subjects in relation to this
topic that might be referred to, and a good deal might be said
in the way of remedy. A great deal might be done in the
latter respect if they did away with the whole system of fees
for early delivery. According to this system, a letter-carrier
went on to the establishment at 20s. a week ; then he was in-
creased to 235. ; and, in the course of a few years, he was re-
euced to 14s, the salary to be made up by the fees arising from
early delivery. Now, he knew that in some districts
the system of early delivery was done away with ;
still it remained intact in many others, and those
parties who could bet give security for the early de-
livery of letters had to sulsmit to a reduced salary of 14s.—
( Hear, hear.) They ought to consolidate the general and
district departments of the establishment, so as to make but
one department ; and as they had the power to use any of
the trains on the railways for the carrying of letters, they
could bring them as often as they might think fit, and they
could be delivered with what was now called the district de-
livery, at the same time taking care that due remuneration
was paid the deliverers, with a gradually increasing scale for
service for the years employed. The letter-carriers ought also
in due course to be allowed to take the sub-sorters' place.
The whole thing should be placed on a better footing ; and if
a Committee were given him, and practical men—not men
interested in the prevalent abuses—examined, he had no
doubt a plan by which the system could be remedied might
be suggested. The early delivery, in his opinion, ought to be
done away with. The Post-office was established for the be-
nefit of the general public, and not for a small party.--( Hear,
hear.) One system should be made to work the same for all.
He knew of a casein which a carrier took up the late and early
delivery at the same time, going up the street,
delivering the early letters for the privileged parties,
and delivering the late letters as he came down.
He would go up in the same house in Chancery-lane and de-
liver the early letters on the first and second floors, and though
he had the letters of the party who was on the third floor,
adcwneal
pdr
oinneu,
ahehne
ought
nawouldoomtf e
to cidtas, r)
because he happened to be a late delivery man, the letter,
street.Nantw laterthis pa
proceeding,tof t he day'
be
enot
injustice,iihoehw ies
allowed.
. letters
sa-
lary of Mrs
KellyKeli saids was
tahgeaignrsetaAt cetomofplPaia.nrtli,amabe:::e,
all others, and that which required investigation, was, that as
this was a public department. of the Government it ought not
to be used for the privatein interest of parties. In the retui ns
emolument and salariesnocfombe) had moved, setting forth the
for which he
ffih
eocnepr soh
soi
tsf.
ahffite,
cp
eobk establishment,timrDirectory,
yii n In st3,,h.6he,
copyright
tput,h fa ;down at 3201. a-year , and in that
return Mr,
Ile
purchased the
which he had been large
private property, and in publishing
ich
,:tpiired by official resources. Mr.
he had embarked a 1
Kelly said that the totailn
ise4rence in the expenditure and re-
or
I. 4 was 1,276/. 4s. 7d. ; he did not
ceipts of the Directory
say whether profit
1,276/. That statement Msr'' 11:nuntnanhewamse
prerelypatemdetnotphrinnevde
was untrue, and that the profits of the Directory was not less
If thpery.,granted him (Mr. Duncombe)
than 10,000/. a year,
vet that instead of 1,2761. Mr.
the Committee, he would
Kelly received from 12,000/.
a 15,000/. a year. This sum
Wratsinn parties connected with
error,and but a
was received; by Mr. Kelly, or e
him on the establishment. Thisc
thense public,ht and
deliberate fraud to mislead this Housewilful and
if they shielded the delinquency, there was no
could
moving for returns on any subject. He did not see,wa oenvecon-
sideration of honor or interests of the public, hew they
avoid granting the Committee after what he had said. If Mr.
Kelly was called to the bar and examined, he (Mr. Duncombe)
was prepared to prove this. What use was there in asking for
returns if each returns as these were made. The other night
an error in the tariff was attributed to Mr. APGregor, and it
was urged that a Committee of Inquiry should be granted,
but it was found that the matter was a typographical
error, and the matter was dropped. If returns
were to be considered merely waste paper, let them say
for them, but
so, and he would not take any trouble in asking
if they intended to act fairly and justly in this department of
the public service, they ought to grant him what he sought.
The great mal-practices and abuses which existed ought to be
remedied, or at least inquired into. The statement he had
submitted showed that tyranny, injustice, and oppression pre-
vailed, producing a state of great dissatisfaetion, endangering
the commercial interests of the country. What state would
this great commercial town be placed in if no letters were de-
livered for one day; and that such a step had been contemplated,
and mightyet be taken if such tyranny and injustice continued;
he was persuaded from information which he had received. This
all arose out of what he designated a gross job, for such he
con 'idered the " Pest-office Directory" to be. The whole
place ought to be placed on a new footing, and if the Com-
mittee which he sought was appointed, he had no doubt some
plan would come out of it which would satisfy the public, and
satisfy all parties concerned therein.—( Hear, hear.) The
Honourable Gentleman concluded by moving for a " Select
Committee to inquire into the allegations of the petition of Mr.
Jonathan Duncan, on the mal-adminidration of affairs in the
General Post-office."
Mr. WILLIAMS rose to second the motion. He knew the
gentleman whose name was appended to the petition on which
the Hon. Member for Finsbury had founded his motion, and
he believed him to be a person of the highest honour, and
quite incapable of making any statement which he did not think
he was fully able to substantiate. A charge had been broug h
forward by his Hon. Friend, into which this House could
not
refuse an inquiry. It they did otherwise, they proclaimed to
the country that public servants were ju,tified by Government
in the commission of a fraud on public property. There was
a charge that public property had been used for the private
interests of this individual, and he (Mr. Williams) said that,
such a charge as this could not be made, especially by a gentle-
man who was so entitled to be heard' as the petitioner, and
when that petitition, too, was presented by the Hon. Member
for Finsbury, who could always command the attention of the
House. without the Government's acceding to the motion. He
(Mr Williams) believed that there was no department con-
nected with the Government that required more looking after
than the Post-office. There had been a time, indeed, when
the Yost-office had been looked up to fur the correctness with

sthich thing; had been managed in that department, but that
time had now gone by. The Hon. Member for Finsbury said, that
the names for the Post-office Directory were procured by the let.-
ter-carriers. He could substantiate this statement. Within theist
month the letter-carrier who was in the habit of leaving lett, rs
at his door sent in a paper, and asked if that were his prul nr
address? The letter-carrier might possibly have waited at his
door a quarter of an hour—possibly' he might not; but, sup-
posing that he waited a quarter of an hour, and supposing aiso
that he had so waited at fifty doors before he came to his, why,
it would make his delivery at least an hour and a half later.
Formerly, when he (Mr. Williams) was connected with the
City, he used to pay the letter-carrier an extra fee, for the pur-
pose of getting his letters delivered shortly after nine o'clock,
and he observed that his neighbours who did not pay did not
receive their letters till after eleven. The Hon. Member for
Finsbury had pointed out to the House the many errors seSsiel,
had found admission into the Directory, but how, he (Mr.
Williams) wou'd ask, could it be otherwise when this individual
had the monopoly of it? The public had no choice; they we e
obliged to purchase it, for every competitor had been driven
from the field. He contended that where charges of this nature
1 w re brought against any of the officers connected with any of
the public departments, a Committee to inquire into the tru,h
of these charges ought to be immediately granted ; and more
especially when a serious charge of this character—a charge of
fraud—of fraud on the public stores—was made ;he could not
conceive on what ground her Majesty's Government could re-
fuse inquiry. Even if the Right Hon. Gentleman the Under_
Secretary for the Treasury were to attempt a reply, he would
require to depend altogether for information upon the very in-
dividuals who were interested in the continuance of the system.
He would conclude by repeating that the petitioner was inca-
pable of making such a charge unless ho was well aware that it
was perfectly true. The Hon. Member concluded by seconding
the motion.
The question having been put,
Mr. CARDWELL rose, and said that before he followed
the Hon. Member who had brought forward that petition into
the details that might be expected from him, the House would
perhaps allow him to make one or two preliminary observations.
And first he would assure the Hon. Member, not only on the
part of the Treasury, but also on the part of the Noble Lord
at the head of the Post-office Department, that no one among
the Postmasters-General who preceeded him would be less
ready to screen from exposure or from punishment any servant
guilty of mal-practices than would the Noble Lord who at
present filled that office.—( Ironical cheering from Mr. Dun-
corabe. ) The Hon. Member might derisively cheer him, but
the Hon. Member when he did so seemed to forget two of the
very statements which he had made in his own speech that
evening. He forgot that, while saying that the subordinates in
the Post-office were prevented by dread of the consequences
from addressing their superiors, and while admitting that he
himself, on being questioned as to the propriety of their sub
mitting a memorial to their superiors, advised them to be cau-
tious in doing so, that they told him that they were ready to
come in a body of two or three hundred for the purpose of ex-
pressing their indignation at the practices which it was alleged
were embodied in this petition. Now the Hon. Member for
Finsbury would excuse him for saying that when persons to the
number of two or three hundreds were so ready to come for-
ward for the purpose of attacking their superiors, there was no
reason why they should not instead have addressed themselves
by a respectful memorial to the Government, or to the Noble
Lord at the head of the department, stating their grievances,
and expressing their confident hope that those grievances
would be redressed.—( Cheers, ironical cheers, and cries o!
" Oh, oh.") He was not to be put down by mere cheering
from the Members opposite. He would repeat that if the
subordinates in the Post-office had produced such a memorial,
and if they had addressed it to the head of their department,
their grievances would have been attended to. He (Mr. Card-
well) had the honour of receiving scores of memorials in the
department to which he had the honour to belong, and if these
memorials were respectfully worded, he would not dare to stand
before the Hon. Member and the House, if such memorials had
been overlooked or neglected by the particular department with
which he was connected. He would say then, and he thought
the House would believe him, that the Government were as
anxious as the Hon. Member to punish mal-practices of this sort,
and he could affirm that the doors of ',he Treasury were always
oven through the medium of the Post-office, and if any Hon.
Member of that House could prove that a memorial received
in that manner, had been neglected, then indeed good ground
could be shown of complaint against that department. The
Hon. Gentleman towards the close of his speech, referred to
subject which had afforded matter for some little centrovers)
between himself, and the Hon. Member at the close of the
last session of Parliament, namely, the early delivery. He
perhaps ought not to refer to that matter, because it formed no
part. of the allegation in the petition. He had the hononr o!
stating on a former occasion, that the payment of letter-carriers
by the office for the early delivery was no part of the engage- 1
ment entered into by that department. It was held by them
as an ancient right, which had been continued, because a large
portion of the mercantile community received a credit from the
letter-carriers, which the Post-office could not give them, and
which must create a little confusion if it were at once with •
drawn. That was the ground on which the early delivery was
defended during the last session of Parliament. It was not
defended as a convenience to the Post-office subordinates, but
as a convenience to the merchants in London. If the Hon.
Member for Finsbur; could produce an instance of any gen-
tleman living up three pair of stairs, in Chancery-lane, whose
letters had been detained till a later period of the day, whils
his neighbours upon the first and second floors had been deli-
vered in the morning (because they were included in the earls
delivery) if the Hon. Member would produce such a case.
Mr. DUNCOMBE—Give me the Committee, and I will
do so.

Mr. CARDWELL said that the Hon. Member seemed to
infer that he asked him to withdraw his motion for a Commit-
tee. The Hon. Member had quite mistaken him if he enter-
taissed this idea for a moment. All he meant to say was, that
if any gentleman had felt himself aggrieved by the system a'
present pursued by the Post-office, it would give as little trou-
ble to send a letter to the Treasury, or to the authorities at tilt
Post-office, and he (Mr. Cardwell) would undertake to sat
that the representations from such a letter would be attendee
to.—(Hear, hear.) He would not stand there and say that
such a case as that instanced by the Hon. Member for Fins
bury had never existed ; but he would say with confidence,
that the superior officers of the Government were always open
to receive any communications, and ever ready to put a period
to such mal-practices as those alluded to by the Hon. Member.
He (M. Cardwell) acesta
not eeaarsesiin now any one could
rise in
that House to answer matters of which they had had no
previous notice, otherwise than as he had done—namely, by
stating that the Government would be always found anstioui
to terminate such abuses. Now, having so far disposed of the
early delivers'. + n would
Hldveol Member'sturet turn
charge—namely, totrghaet—wnhaine
rho o .~cmen of which formed
ormed
the the
I ° Post-office Directory." He would explain what this "Di-
rectory" was, and then give a short sketch of its history.
Having done so, he would proceed to meet the charges of the
Hon. Member. The fact was that the metropolis was divided
into a great number of wards for letter-carriers, and the House
would readily admit, that an absolute necessity existed for the
Post-office authorities having correct information of the names
of persons whom the letter-carriers would have to serve. 11(
would ask, how was this information to be collected, except-
ing by each letter. carrier within his own district? It so hap-
pened, and he had no doubt it would be made a feature in the
debate, that the forms used in the Post-office had a heading,
" The Post-office Directory." Of course it was not essential
to the business of the Post-office, that there should be such a
heading to the forms, but it was absolutely necessary, he con-
tended, that the names should he so collected by the letter-
carriers. There were certain officers in the Post-office, desig•
nated check-takers, and there were twenty letter-carriers under
each check-taker, The check-taker had to hand over to
his superior the number of names handed in by
each letter-carrier—that superior filling the same situation
which Mr. Kelly now held. This was information which must
be collected as it was now, unless they wished to destroy the
existence of the " Post-office Direetory" altogether. He
would now, with the permission of the House, proceed very
shortly to trace the history of the publication which had been
so often referred to. A Mr. Sparkes, who held a situation in
the Post-office, thought that he was in possession of information
to which others could not lay claim, namely, the names 01
those who were at that time in business in London. This wa,
was some century ago, and Mr. Sparkes applied to the Post-
master-General of that day for permission to publish a
Directory, which was granted. Mr. Crichett succeeded to
Mr. Sparkes, and the work was published under the authority
of the Postmaster-General, and so continued until the year
1836, when Mr. Critchett died, and Mr. Kelly succeeded to
the office which he now held. Mr. Kelly wished to continue
the publication of the Directory, but Lord Litchfield, who
was then at the head of the department, thought it right to
consult the Solicitor-General upon the matter, as there were
some arrangements to be entered into between the widow of
Mr. Critchett and his successor. After consulting with the
legal officer of the Crown, an arrangement was entered into by
which Mr. Kelly paid a sum of money to the widow of Mr.
Critchett, and so stood in the position in which that gentleman
was placed in regard to the Directory. That arrangement
having been effected, a very great amount of expense was in-
curred in the publication. The name of Mr. Robson had been
mentioned in connexion with the work, and some severe anim
adversions had been made against Mr. Kelly in respect of Mr
Robson's death, from the pressure of distress. He (Mr. Card-
well) was not aware that Mr. Kelly had been thus guilty, but
that had been as far back as 1840, since which
time a Committee of this House had sat on
the subject of the Post-office. In the last session
of Parliament an Hon. Member had moved for certain
returns relative to that department, and in these returns cer-
tain sums of money had been entered by Mr. Kelly, as the
sums received by him as the produce of the Directory. The
correctness of that stun had been questioned, however, by the
Hon. Member for Finsbury, who stated that he was prepared to
prove that a much larger sum had been received. He (Mr.
Cardwell) had instituted inquiries into the subject, and from
the information furnished by Mr. Bockenham and others, he
was perfectly satisfied that the correct sum had been returned,
and he did not think that that sum was in any degree too large
considering the capital embarked, the amount of labour
required, and allowing a fair remuneration to the publisher.
Now there was one other circumstance to which he would call
the attention of the House, but to which he would only shortly
mT7ndhes advert.
tr,ot
ns Tt. hd
Gentleman
iHveo delivery,
w aMemberhtaodb
es foraid
mainlyt h e Finsbury,apsuerb
publication
aad
ti
ot
on thattheof theteh,
ne
pel
lepol
yai delay
dedteetlleaaryy-
ecodaurgtrhhi eetr sdt'oieriltiao,kbeert aypi
aifnetegh information
public
bl for the Directory.
en
predictiont l em n
00
Di-
rectory tsourcyhf
mdiadnnwoat.s
wTrolniegHinon.
hisG
cular case where delay had occurredila db
uhcte etfthotree
Hon.
e Gentlebelievedrtai n
.liyt:
fwethveer mcaeunsetionnfedthea
delay.partl-
The Hon. Gentleman complained that the publication of the
last Directory occasioned a delay of ten days in the deli-
very of the letters which came part of the way from India.
by the Great Liverpool, but he (Mr. Caldwell) suggested to
the Hon. Member whether it was not quite impossible this
could be so. The Postmaster-General and his secretary were
open to all parties who had grievances of this nature to
ld have been no lack of remonstrances
taken place there would com-
plain of, and he was quite oontident if any, such delay had
from the influential parties in the
He happenedl to be
es City,o thiswho wereparticiun
atrhecahs:boit
ermit him to do
delay,
ao
cf
q rue
"c
ieniatvnei
ddn g
ifw iettthht ee rt shHeboyne trheGeuemlnrsti
tldeai
mna nca
nm
The fact was,
so, he would tell him what really did occur.
the letters of the Great Liverpool were so wet that it took the
savioLu d p
servants of the Post-office a very considerable time, indeed, in
carefully separating and sorting them ; and he admitted that
some delay, though by no means so much as ten days, did
take place before they were ready for delivery. This
explanation had been given to all parties interested
in the matter, and he was not aware that
any one of them had expressed himself dissatisfied with it.—
( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman, after expressing his
regret that this subject had not been fully inquired into after
the discussion of last session, remarked that some slight change
had been made in the situation of the sub-sorters, whose sala-
ries were raised on the very morning of the day when it was
thought he would bring forward his motion. But he (Mr.
Cardwell) assured the Hon. Gentleman that the Bcard of
Treasury, in taking this step, were in no degree influenced by
the anticipated motion of the Hun. Member. Another of the
Hon. Gentleman's complaints was, that the communications
were made to Mr. Kelly by the deliverers in official hours;
and the Hon. Gentleman who seconded the motion followed
this up, by declaring that collecting the required information
occasioned considerable delay in the delivery of let-
ters. Both Honourable Gentlemen, however, were perhaps
unaware of the fact that, whether Mr. Kelly's Directory
were published or not, it would he impos ible to carry on the
business of the Post-office without its officers collecting the
information which it contained.—(Hear, hear.) Another ,
statement made in the petition, and one which had some colour

-
of truth was, that the sorters were sometimes employed upon
tho Directory at the office of Mr. Kelly. This was formerly
the case, but it was not so now. But even then it was
optional with the sorters to perform or refuse the services,
while, if they consented. they were remunerated for what they
did.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman ha l expressd
hope that ere long the subject would come under the serious
consideration of the authorities ; and. perhaps, it would be gra-
tifying to the Hon. Gentleman to know that the subject had
already been carefully looked into by the late and present Post-
master-General ; and it was now optional with the sorters and
deliverers to engage themselves or not in collecting informa-
tion for the Directory. But both the Noble Lords at the head
of the department were decidedly convinced that it was a por-
tion of the deliverers' and sorters' duty to collect the informa-
tion for the purposes of the office itself. Believing, then, that
the informetion of the Hon. Gentleman was erroneous, and
that while the heads of the Post-office department were open
directly to appeals to remedy abuses, no such appeals had been
made, he thought it was a sufficient guarantee that neither the
Treasury nor the Post-office authorities were deserving of
censure ; and he, therefore, hoped the House would negative
the motion of the lion, Gentleman.
11.10FFA TT supported the motion for an inquiry. It
was a matter of fact that individuals residing in London did
not receive their letters in the morning till many hours after
they night be delivered, if there was a proper system of manage-
ment of the Post-office. He could not see how his Right
lion. Friend opposite could have any grounds for the refusal
of the Committee. He should have conceived that if
the abuses complained of by his Hon Friend the Member for
Finsbury did not exist, his Right Hon. Friend opposite
should be anxious to have the Committee of Inquiry appointed
so that the groundlessness of the charges might be mace
manifest.—( Hem-, hear ) lie himself felt no doubt that the
public would feel much satisfaction if the Committee asked for
were granted. It was confidently anticipated when the great
change took place in the Post-office, department that many of
the glaring abuses which then existed would have been re-
miss ed, but after all it appeared, from the facts laid before the
House by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, that the greater
portion of them still existed, and that even the evils which had
been removed would not have been so removed had it not been
for the many complaints that had been made to the Post-office
authorities, the letters that appeared in the different newspapers,
&c. One of the main grounds of the restoration of the revenue
represented at the time that the great change that took place
in the Post-office was the great increase of facilities which
would be afforded to the public in the delivery of their letters.
And still, it appeared that almost the whole of the old delays
existed as heretofore, and would continue to exist if the public
voice was not raised in a manner too strong to be resisted by
the Post-office authorities, lie found that after some of the
old delays and abuses which existed in the Post-office, with re-
gard to the delivery of letters in the metropolis had
been removed, in consequence of the loud and continued com-
plaints of the public there was an increase of letters delivered
by the letter-carriers in London alone, in the following
year of 1,800,000 ; being an increase of nearly fifty per cem. ;
and there was scarcely a town where there had been increased
facilities in the delivery of letters where there had not been a
corresponding increase. But still there was a general com-
plaint throughout the kingdom that the Post-office authorities
were exceedingly slow in their operations ; and, in his opinion,
they had a perfect right to make such complaints. They had
at present in London the old system of twopenny postage which
caused a vast outlay and waste of money, and which proved
anything but efficient. If the Post-office were properly
managed, letters that were to be delivered in the morning, should
be delivered before nine o'clock within even four miles of the
Sity, whereas at present they were not delivered before half-
past ten. Then there was the absurd regulation as to the
limitation of weight to be carried by the Post-office, the weight
being at present limited to fifteen ounces, than which
nothing could be more ridiculous. There were also many
other abuses which might be brought to light before
a Committee of the House. There was one regulatien
about the superannuation of the sub-sorters, who were com-
pelled to subscribe to a superannuation fund. That he be-
deved was also another of Mr. Kelly's regulations. No ac-
count was delivered to the subscribers of the sum in hand on
their account. When their late treasurer died, they expected
a very large sum would have been on hand, but when they ap-
plied to Mr. Kelly they were informed that there was no more
than 701. available for the purposes for which it had been sub.
scribed. The Post-office was managed in a slovenly way, and
he had no doubt that if a Committee were appointed the result
would be a very material improvement—(Bear, hear)—because
he was quite satisfied that some of the allegations made by the
Hon. Member for Finsbury were true, and capable of proof.
lie could say more upon this subject, but, not wishing to detain
the House, he would content himself by simply stating in con
elusion that he most cordially supported the motion of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. PROTHEROE said that the House and the country
should know more than they did at present of the operations of
tlr. Kelly, who, it appeared, employed by contract the greater
pottion of those engaged in the metropolitan Post-office. From
:he statements made by the Hon. Gentleman opposite, it ap-
peared that the letter- carriers were employed twelve hours in
the day, and that it was impossible for him to deliver the
etters put into his charge earlier than he did. Their re-
inuneration, too, it appeared was exceedingly low, and they
eceived remuneration from parties to whom they delivered
In the better walks of the metropolis, with the sanction of
the Post-office authorities ; in fact, their salaries were re-
tuced in consideration of those perquisites. He thought that
much good would result from the inquiry which might take
place before the Committees,
Mr. BROTHERTON was glad to have this opportunity
of publicly complaining of the gross abuses which existed in
the Post-office. He found that they had sent down into
Manchester a number of agricultural labourers as letter-car-
riers—men that could scarcely either read or write, and
who further knew nothing about the streets of Manchester.
The consequence was, that several mistakes had occurred in
the delivery of the letters.—( Hear, hear.) This was one of
the many abuses which at present existed in the Post-office,
end he hoped that the House would give every facility to the
carrying out of the motion of the Hon. Member for Einsbury.
Mr. CHRISTIE believed that there was an impression very
prevalent in the minds of the public, that there existed a most
pitiful jobbery in the disposal of the Post- office patronage, and he
also believed that no one could gainsay the fact that the
abuses in that department were exceedingly great. If the
Riseles co.thm.,, opposite really felt that there was no
;round for the allegations of the Hon. Member who had
I made the motion now before the House, what objection could
he have to the appointment cf the Committoe sought for?
The Right Hon. Members on the Treasury benches seemed to
be jealous of the Hon. Member for Finsbury ou this occasion.
It appeared that the individuals employed in the Post-office
had, instead of waiting upon them, presented their memorial
to the Hon. Member for Finsbury, praying him to do his ut-
most to remove the abuses of which they complained. The
lion. Member for Finsbury had made specific charges against
certain parties connected with the Post-office, in reply to
which the Right Hon. Gentleman said, c' lam informed that
those charges are not true;" but let that Right Hon. Gentle-
man say who was his informant.—( Hear, hear.) During the
speech of his Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury, he (Mr.
Christie) observed the Chancellor of the Exchequer leave his
benches
hri
sti)b by then ew privilege
were
m or
place very often, and go down to parties who sat on the cross
f.
Kellytthe
the who,
h for r
officials
al l
o e
Post- office.—( Hear, hear ) Now if the Post-office were
carried on in so praiseworthy and imm, aculate a manner as had
h e
of( theltlr
C .
been represented, what objections could the Right Hon. Gen-
tlemen on the Treasury benches have to the appointment of
the Committee, which would, if their statements were true,
clear their friends of the Post-office from the allegations of the
Honourable Member for Finsbury? The public were
entitled to have a most searching inquiry insti.
tuted into the truth or otherwise of the allegations.
made that night against the Post-office authorities. It had
been stated that such an inquiry had been instituted, but none
of that evidence had been published, and how were the public
to know the manner in which the parties examined were cross-
examined, &c. In reply to the allegation of his Hon. Friend
as to the mal-practices in the delivery of letters in the neigh-
bourhood of Chancery-lane, the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site said that as soon as the facts were made known to the
Post-office authorities they were removed, but it was under the
fostering care of the Post-office authorities themselves that
those mal-practices had sprung up ; and he, therefore, conceived
that the whole management of the Post-office should be in-
quired into and remodelled. He considered that all the letter-
carriers had to do was to deliver letters as they were directed.
He considered that private enterpise would be sufficient to col-
lect the requisite informations contained in the Directory. lie
could not conceive how the parties implicated in these alle-
gations could hold up their heads if they did not come forward
and ask this House to inquire into the matter complained of.
Mr. F. BARING said the real question for the consideration
of the House was not the necessity of instituting an inquiry
Into the general management of the Post-office, but for the
tPlcointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the
allegations of the petition. There was no allegation in that
petition relating either to early or late delivery, or to the
necessity of having two different sets of letter-carriers. .Many
of the suggestions thrown out by Hon. Members were no doubt
very good. He never knew any public office in which im-
provements might not be made, and he would be glad to see
the Post-office authorities introduce any beneficial alterations.
He was glad to see the improvements lately introduced in the
delivery of the Brighton letters, by which the town of
Brighton was brought within the range of twopenny post.
From a return lately made to that House, it appeared that
many considerable additions had been made in the Post-office
establishment, the increased labours having rendered
necessary increased assistance. With reference to the alle-
gations contained in the petition, he had great doubt of the
expediency of leaving a work like the " Directory" in the
hands of private individuals, He believed that it contained
much very valuable and necessary information. If the
work, however, should be taken out of Mr. Kelly's hands, he
considered that gentleman was entitled to a compensation.
He thought that the statement of the Secretary of the Treasury,
Mr. Cardwell, was worthy of some consideration-; his state-
ments were not merely denials; they had locked over the books
of Mr. Kelly, in corroboration of his statements. The
lonourable Member for Coventry stated that
the character of the Honourable Member
for Finsbury stood very high, but he (Mr. Baring)
did not consider that, however high might be the character of
any Hon. Member, he should upon that ground attack the
character of gentlemen who had been for a Number of years
good public servants. He saw no reason whatever from the
statements of the Hon. Member for Finsbury for inquiry into
the alleged charges. He thought that, even in matters of mis-
conduct of public servants, the inquiry would be conducted in a
far better manner if left in the hands of the heads of the Go-
vernment, than if attempted to be inquired into by Hon.
Members of that House.
Mr. WAKLEY had been considering in his own mind what
would be the probable course of conduct pursued by those parties who had been connected with official duties, upon a question relating to the misconduct of a ti public officer.
against had always found that when any complaint was brought.
against a public officer, members connected with th Government, sitting upon either side, spoke and e voted to-
gether. Hon. Members on his side of the Horse think that if the present inquiry was granted it might,
to
haps, go back to the period in which they were per-
He considered it absurd to call the statement made by the
the
Secretaries of the Treasury a satisfactory answer; s
it might be, but a refutation it certainly was not. answerlf that
House failed to inquire into such allegations as those
con-
tained in the petition, the functions of the Parliament, as
the inquests of the people, would be immediately at an end.
The people of England would not consider that their represen-
tatives had faithfully performed the duties devolved upon thorn
if they were to rest satisfied with such a reply as they
had heard from the Government. He was in the habit of re-
ceiving many thousands of letters in the course of the day, and
he had scarcely to make one complaint in the course of the
year. He considered the duties connected with the Post-office
to be laborious, difficult, and intricate. He thought it was a
wonderful, most astonishining institution, and no person could
reflect upon the exactness and punctuality of the business
without being struck with astonishment at the wonderful man-
ner in which the duties were performed. He believed the
" Dtrectory" to be most invaluable to the public, lie should
regret to see it discontinued, and he only regretted that any
person with the publication of that work should bey
person c
implicated in so disagreeable a circumstance as that which had
given rise to the present discussion.—( Hear, hear.) Charges,
however, of a most serious character had been brought against
the heads of the Post-office. Great numbers of the subordi-
nates had been to his Hon. Colleague, and had made most
grievous complaints to him of tyrannical usae;e. Could the
House, then, refuse to accede to the inquiry ? His Hon. Col-
leage had moved for a return some time since, from which it
appeared that the income of a gentleman, connected with the

"Directory" was 1,276!., whereas he (Air. Duncombe) had
stated, that if the Committee WSS granted, lie should be able
to prove that the income was not less than 10,0001. a year.
The pAitioner in the present case came forward, not
as a person having received private injuries, but upon
purely public grounds, and states in his petition that pub:hi:
property was used for private purposes. If the motion of his
Hon. Colleague was not acceded to, the people would think
that to serve a certain purpose connected with the Gev, rn .
ment the motion had been refused. He was surprised that the
Government should refuse so reasonable a motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the Hon. Member who had just sat down had stated that when
any Hon. Member connected with that House made a slate.
I ment of misconduct of any public officer it was the duty of
Parliament to inquire into the circumstances, and stated as an
instance of the necessity of that inquiry that an officer in
the Post-office had stated that his income arising from the sale
of the " Directory" was 1,200'. a year; and so because the
Hon. Member for Finsbury had stated it to he 12,000/., there
fore we should institute an inquiry into the subject. He
thought the Hon. Member ( Air. Wakley) was too well
acquainted with the bookselling trade not to perceive at once
that if there was an exaggeration in the statement the probe.
hility was that it would have been upon the side of the laraer
amount. From his experience in the bookseiiing trade 'he
thought such would be his conclusion. He further asked whether
lion. alembers were to be content with a mere denial. The
statement of his lion. Friend, the Secretary of the Treasury,
was founded upon the report of te o persons who had been ap-
pointed to examine the bioks of Mr. Kelly, the result of that
examination being that the statements of Mr. Kelly were es-
sentially correct. He would ask, what better course could be
adopted to inquire into the truth of any statement or tran-ae-
tion other than had been adopted in the present ease? He. had
said what was perfectly true, they executeu the most laborious
duties in the most wonderful manner. But when he made
that admission that it was not to-day or yesterday, but through
a long period of time, when the modes of conveyance were
daily changing, that these exertions were satisfactorily carried
out, he considi red that the Hon. Gentleman. in his own
statement, implied a contradiction of his case, that the whole
department was in a state of distraction and rebellion—ready to
strike—in order to prevent the delivery of letters. The Hon.
Gentleman must have been convinced that the fact of the
manner in which these complaints were made was an answer
to the greater part of them. It was a very popular
doctrine that when a complaint was made that the
House of Commons were bound to inquire into it ;
but they ought not to admit the doctrine in the fullest sense to
which it could be strained; but that when all other means
were exhausted, then it should be competent to apply to the
House of Commons. The letter-carriers had a door open to
them, to have their grievances redres-ed, and the facts ascer-
tained. It was not probable that they had been afraid to apply
to Lord Lonsdale or Lord St. Germans.—(" Hear, hear,"
from Mr. Duncombe.) He believed the allegation that they
were afraid was without foundation; at least there could be no
fear on their part in bringing their complaints under the cog-
nisance of the Treasury. His Hon. Friend had stated that if
any malversation had taken place in the department, that the
Treasury were always open to listen to complaints. If the
House granted a Committee on every complaint which was
made to it, they would draw upon themselves an endless
labour. The Hon. Member for Portsmouth had so fully de-
fended the conduct of those who were principally en-
gaged in the business of this department that it would
not be necessary for him to add anything to it. His
knowledge was more intimate than his, for lie hed
never seen Mr. Bottenham, but he knew that he
carried with him the respect of all that knew him, or had any
dealings with him. They had a proof of it in the testimony
of the lion. Gentleman. He had earned the respect of per-
sans coming into the department without any prepossession
whatever. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would not
enter intothe general merits of the Post-office ; he said there
had been more delay than necessary in carry ing into execution
the improvements decided on, but great improvements were
going on from day to day, and if there had been latterly some
delay, it arose simply from the fact of the large accumulation
of letters, which had rendered some large additions to the Poit-
offie, but those enlargements were now completed, and the de-
iay would consequently cease. He considered that he had said
theyen ougwhouuldpobne thhaerd nityotiinoenhubeedforteo
embark baHrkouisu a n
House, and he
investigation tl nh t
where even there was no allegation that the proper mode of
redress had been attempted. If the House adopted the
principle of inquiring into whatever an individual might state
connected with his department, without in the first place
giving an opportunity to the responsible Government of the
country to inquire into the subject, he could see no limit to
the Committees which the House might appoint, and if there
was no other reason for opposing the motion, he confessed that
would be sufficient to his mind.
Mr. B. ESCOTT—Reference had been made to an inquiry
which had taken place at the Post-office some years ago. His
recollection of what passed then was, that he never heard a
more intelligent or honest witness than Mr. Bottenham. There
was at that time a very strict inquiry made into the regulations
of the Post-office, and so satisfied were the Cemmittee with
the management, and the fair dealing of the persons connected
with the different departments, that those who were most hos-
tile at the commencement of the inquiry, were most ready in
making a favourable report. Though he honoured the Hon.
Member for Finsbury for his advocacy of the injured, it did
appear to him that he had nut a good cause to contend with.
seeing that it was only a squabble between a newspaper editor
and a conductor of a Post-office Directory, who thought proper
to blame Mr. Kelly. He had no doubt that if an inquiry were
granted, it would lead to no good result ; and if it were re-
sisted, he would vote against it, bearing in mind the result of
the former one, of which he had been a member. In fine, he
considered that it was unworthy the character of the House in
a dispute, which, after all, was only one between a newspaper
editor and the proprietor of a Post-office Directory.
Mr. 'f. 8. DUNCOMBE said he had no doubt that Mr.
Bottenham was a most lotolligent witness, and it was because
that he considered him so that he wished eery eteeh to have
him, and he should very much like to have the Hon. Member
himself. examined, to state what he knew of the regulations
of the Post-office ; and with respect to this being a mere
equabble between a newspaper editor and the proprietor of a
Directory, the Hon. Member could not have heard his
statements. He could not have heard the allegation that, only
for the private business of Mr. Kelly, letters would be de-
livered an hoar and a half earlier. It was no light
matter that when returns had been ordered by that
House, that they should be made false. But all that was
nothing; itras all merely a Post-office squabble. If this were
pesmitted, it would be perfectly childish in the House to move
for such returns, when they were to be falsified. He did not
wonder at the course taken by the Honourable Gentleman.
Why, the first was, that it was the duty of public men, both
present and past, to screen public delinquency. If they con-
sidered that he could not prove his charges, they would
jump at the opportunity his motion afforded them to obtain
praise, but it was because they felt confident that errors
did exist, that they refused this inquiry. When
charges were made against the Poor-law
Commissioners, why did they not say to them, " Go to the offi-
cers, before you come to us."—(Hear, hear.) He said before
what he would again repeat, that he believed that every allega-
tion in that petition was true. Would their slighting it satisfy
the public? The Right lion. Gentleman himself admitted
that he considered that a better arrangement might be effected.
When the packet list was published at the Post-office, it was
resolved that it should be published at the lowest possible rate,
and that the profit, if any, should be carried to the revenue.
This proceeding had been carried into effect. Now let the
Post-office Directory" be treated in the same manner,
and if it can be published at 12s. 6d., instead of
thirty shillings, let the public have the benefit of it, or let it
be published at the latter price, and let the amount of profit
go to remunerate the poor Post-office subordinates. lie did
his duty in presenting the petition, and calling the attention
of the House to the subject, and he now left it to the House
to decide between himself and the Right Hon. Barone
whether or not the Committee should be granted.
The House then divided, when the numbers were,
For the motion ... ..... 49
Against it
_ _ .

Majority 43
IRISH RAILWAY BILLS
On our re-admission to the gallery, we found
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN moving, that with a view to dimi-
nish the inconvenience and expense now incurred in carrying
through Parliament Bills for the construction of railways in
Ireland, it is expedient that, in the case of Irish Railway Bills,
all such inquiries as are now conducted in London by Com-
mittees of both Houses of Parliament, should, after the termi-
nation of the present session, take place in Ireland. The ex-
penditure of the last and the present session, with respect to
the conduct of private Bills through that House, was such as
to make every one in Ireland dissatisfied with the present mode
of procedure. The enormous expense, inconvenience, and
delay which resulted from the system of discussing the merits
of private Bills before Committees of that House, was so great
as to necessitate a change like that which he proposed. The
expenses incurred by bringing witnesses from every part of Ire-
land, engaging counsel, agents, and other persons in
this country, would be entirely obviated; but it
was not a question of expense merely, it was a
question if convenience. He found that in the last session of
Parliament the Bills which were introduced on the 10th of
February did not receive the Royal Assent till the 21st of
July, a period of four or five months, and the general result
notwithstanding the delay was a most enormous expenditure.
He should be glad if the Hon. Baronet would lay before the
House the different memorials he had received on the subject.
He would ask the English Members if they were satisfied with
the manner in which the Railway Bills were conducted. It
was impossible that so many Bills could be investigated
properly. They amounted: to over seven hundred in the
present session, and the labour imposed upon Members was
very great. Members of that House were taken. away from
their higher duties and sent for days and weeks to sit on Rail.
way Committees, whereas they might be better employed in
the discharge of more important functions. He did not be-
lieve that Members of that House were bound to sit on Com-
mittees for private Bills. There was nothing to compel them
to do so more than a mere resolution of that House, and he
should doubt that such a resolution was strictly binding
till he should hear it so stated by some high authority in that
House. He could see no difficulty in allowing the Railway
Bills of Ireland to be conducted by Committees in that country, He thought the Government might appoint a Commission of
five gentlemen—one to be a counsel of high legal character,
and the others to be civil and military engineers of acknow-
ledged,
scientific attainments. They could report to the Go-
vernment, and the parties could then be entitled to an appeal
to that House. If the House should adopt the principle, he
would then be for including all classes of Irish private Bills in
the qualification of the Commission.
Mr. F. FRENCH seconded the motion. He considered
that the expenditure incurred in carrying Bills for public works
in Ireland should be spent in that country. It was an amount
of some consequence ; for he found that the expenses of even
an unopposed Bill came as high as seven or eight hundred
pounds, and such expenditure was taken from Ireland ; and,
at the same time, the pasties were put to great
inconvenience by having to attend the carrying
of the Bills through Committee in this country.
The Hon. Member then went into a detailed description of
the operation of the Grand Jury Act. He said, if it was de-
termined on that the existence of a road was necessary, the ap-
plication was laid before the grand jury, and then the county
surveyor was called upon to decide which was the best line of
road, and to lay it out, and then his plan was to be submitted
to a future road sessions, and in that way the fiscal business of
the country was carried on. But with regard to the fiscal
business of the country generally, he begged to observe that it
was carried on for the great part by Hon. Members from Ire-
land, who were obliged to attend their Parliamentary duties
here also, and in illustration of which he would just state that,
since the present session commenced, he had been obliged to
cross the Channel four times ; while here, the duties were dis-
charged in a different manner. Well, then he would wish to
call attention next to the enormous expense to which the Irish
people were put in endeavouring to carry a railway ; and he
felt assured he did not exaggerate when he stated that the Par-
liamentary expenses alone of the smallest line in Ireland could
not be less than 20,000/. In the first place, the parties were
put to a great deal of expense in the House of Lords that they
had not to encounter in the House of Commons. In the case
of standing orders alone the parties had to come over here and
then go back to Ireland and come here again, and then go
back again ; and so on, again and again, in the
most unnecessary and annoying manner—and thus the ex-
pense was most unnecessarily increased. He knew of one in-
stance recently where the parties had passed the House of
Commons' standing orders, and when they went up to the
House of Lords they had to remain three weeks before they
were heard. He contended, then, that all the difficulties had
been thrown in the way by the House of Lordsaand that there was

--
no more real necessity for bringing the parties over here upon a
railroad than there was upon a grand-jury road, for that the
same parties were as capable of judging of one as of the other.
He begged leave to second die motion.
Sir R. PEEL said it was quite clear that the House was
prepared for the discussion of the question introduced by the
Hon. Member, and there were several motions already before
the House upon the subject. But in reference to the railroad
question, he begged to remind the Hon. Member that the mo-
tion he intended to make on Thursday would be to the effect
that unless a certain number of scripholders agreed to the car-
rying on of.a railway scheme, it ought not to be carried on.
—( Hear.) But the Honourable Member had remarked
that certain persons in Ireland were as capable of
udging then of the merits of a railroad as of
the common roads; but let him remind the Hon. Member
that was not the motion of the Hon. Member near him.
That Hon. Member proposed that the Speaker should appoint
a Commission to make inquiries in reference to railways in
Ireland, which now belonged to the House of Commons to
do. In a future session of Parliament, of course, there would
be a much less pressure on account of railways than in the
present session. The experience of the present session would
enable them to determine what course they should pursue
hereafter. It was quite clear that they ought not to sacrifice
private property unless for some public good. He thought
the House could not affirm such a proposition as that
%hien had been made by the Honourable Gen-
tleman—(Heer, hear)—upon such a discussion as that which
had taken place. The Honourable Gentleman would not of
course propose to give the power to a Commission of five
to legislate. lie would not, of course, give a Commission
the power to take land. If he diet not propose that, Legis-
lation by that House would still he necessery.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN said he proposed that the matter
should be determed by a local board—the county board for
instance. He would also suggest that the Commission should re-
port to the House.
Sir R. PEEL said, the Commission would merely have to
make certain preliminary inquiries. Now, the Honourable
Gentleman should consider, that to this proposition, to make it
effective, they must have the sanction of the House of
would be no
Lords. Supposing the Commission to be appointed, there
saving of expense, because the parties
if they were not satisfied with the decision of the
Commission might appeal to the House and have the whole
matter again investigated by the House of Commons. Con-
sidering that the House was not prepared for this discussion. he
hoped the Hon. Gentleman would withdraw the motion, and
not put the House to the necessity of expressing an opinion
upon it. It was quite clear that it could not be assented to.
All the Government could assent to was the consideration of
the question whether certain inquiries now committed to the
flame of Commons might not be transferred to a tribunal ap.
pointed by the House and under the control of the House, but
reserving all legislation to the House of Commons.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN thought the House was in a position to
consider the motion, and he should therefore press it.
Mr. C. PO WELL thought Isis Hon. Friend was warranted
in pressing the motion.
Mr. WAKLEY said that there were so many drains upon
the resources of Ireland, that if the Hon. Gentleman should
press the motion he (Mr. \llkley) should support it. Ile,
however, thought it would be better to postpone the motion for
the present, and bring it forward at a time when the House
would be better prepared to express an opinion upon it. He
had the greatest objection to entrusting these matters to the
consideration of local boards, because such bodies must have
great local interests and prejudices. He must say that he could
not see how the principle advocated by the Hon. Gentleman
was to be carried into effect, but certainly, considering the ex-
penditure that took place in Ireland, and also in this country, a
stop ought to be put to the exhaustion of Ireland by ab-
senteeism.
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON said that after the observa-
tions made by the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Limerick,
and seconded by the Hon. Member for Roscommon, and agree-
ing as he did with their views. he thought himself bound to
vote for his motion. He thought that some regulation should
be made to avoid many of the expenses incidental to the
manner in which the Irish railways were bronght forward
in London. A great number of witnesses were brought
forward, and the proposed arrangement would be of great ad.
vantage in diminishing the expense. He must, however, ask
the Hon. Gentleman, whether he meant the proposition to
apply to those railway schemes now before Parliament, or to
such as might be undertaken in future, because he appre-
hended that very few of the Irish railways which had come
before Parliament this session were in a condition to avail
themselves of the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman if it
were carried. He thought that the House should clearly un-
derstand, whether the proposal was intended for the advantage
of future railway companies, or for those at present before the
House. He did not think that at the present late period of
the session any extensive change in the manner of bringing
forward these Bills could be of advantage.
Colonel CONOLLY said he was not disposed to raise any
objection to a course which had already been found to be bene-
ficial, but the Hon. Member for Limerick had overlooked a
very po im • rtant consideration, viz., that the greater portion of
the money invested in Ireland and Irish railways came from
England ; and as the introduction of English capital in Ire-
land was a very d ,sirable consideration, he would be very sorry
to acquiesce in any proposal which ofered any impediment to
such introduction. With respect to the course suggested by
the Hon. Member for Roscommon, he thought that such a
course would be the tone most calculated to encourage discord
and trouble in Ireland.
Mr. F. FRENCH said that his Hon. Friend had misun-
derstood the statement he had made.
Colonel CONOLLY said that he should be very sorry to
misrepresent any of his countrymen—(Laughter)--or any Hon.
Member in that House. The House had already found it
necessary to separate all parties, all locally interested, from the
consideration of the railway scheme in which they might be
concerned ; and how could it descend from that high ground,
to leave these matters for the consideration of a small district,
with the possibility of very material difference of opinion on
the subject.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL said that he thought that, on refe-
rence to the list of the shareholders in Irish railways, it would
be found that a considerable portion of the capital sub=cribed
was from Ireland, while there were a large number of English
names, which were merely samples of that zoological anomaly
called the stag. There was such a thing as a precedent of a
Commission in Ireland, and all that was asked for was, that
instead of taking people over from the remote parts of Ireland,
such as Donegal, Galway, and Kerry, they should constitute
a series of Commissions, which would hear all the evidence,
and prepare a report of it for the Parliamentary Committees.
It had been calculated that every railway I3ill which had come
before the House had cost, on an average, 3,0-JO/. for prelimi-
nary expenses ; and if they multiplied that amount by
the number of Irish railway Bills say twenty or
thirty Bills—what an amount that would give.—(Hear. )
All he asked simply was, to consider whether they would, by
commission or otherwise, endeavour to get rid of the incon-
vernence of bringing people over here at the busy time of the
year—many of them men of business—and thus expending the
money out of the country. In doing this he would be benefit-
ing all classes, from the day-labourers throughout every
business and trade. It was doing great injustice to Ireland
the bringing away the money of the country to swell the
overgrown gains of this great capital. He would support the
motion of his Hon. Friend, as he considered it a just and
proper proposition.
Mr. NVILL JAMS hoped, after the explanation of the Right
Hon. Baronet, that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. S. O'Brien)
would not press his motion. The Right Hon. Baronet had
expressed himself willing in any future press of railway
business to consider the propriety of taking evidence, not only
in Ireland but in other parts of the empire. That information
would suffice at present. He was anxious as any one to sup-
port measures for the benefit of Ireland, but he objected to do
so on the present occasion, because the object would be better
carried out if left to the Government, after the declaration
which the Right Hon. Baronet had made. If the Right
Hon. Baronet omitted to take up the question, the Hon.
Gentleman would bring it forward at another time with better
chance of success.
After a few words from Mr. FREWEN, against the
motion,

Mr. ROCHE hoped his Hon. Friend would not be induced
by the Hon. Member for Coventry from abstaining from di-
viding the House. It was plain on the whole, it was never
the right time to do justice to Ireland. Whenever any pro-
position was made to benefit Ireland, some doctrine of politi-
cal economy was dug up, to show that it was not the right
time for adopting it: He could not see how it was that
the Right Honourable Baronet had not acceded to
the motion, as every one who aceeeded to it
admitted that some interference was necessary. Much Irish
money was spent in this country, and men of business were
delayed most inconveniently in consequence of the present
system. He called upon the Government to do something in
the matter. He protested against the putting off of the
question ; against the demand for a long day for Ireland. He
said, that when a question of this kind was brought forward,
when all classes in Ireland had united in memorialising the
Right Hon. Baronet, it was not right or just to say that the
mode in which they wished to carry it out was not the proper
one, and he thought the onus lay with the Right Hon. Baronet
to prove that it was natural.
fhe CHANCELLOR of the EX CHEQUER was under-
stood to say that he did not wish to prolong the discussion, but
he could not help thinking that the Hon. Member seemed to
suppose that a resolution of that House would be binding upon
the House of Lords. Such could not be the case, and he
thought it better that the Hon. Member for Limerick should
defer his motion.

was C
no
ol ot n
se i
ii
fat eii e W. t Dy
l understood, and perhaps he might be ON said it appeared to him that the motion
per-
mitted therefore to read the motion as it appeared upon the
The motion was, " That, with a view to diminish the
apinconvenienceer and expense now incurred in carrying through
Parliament Bills for the construction of Railways inlreland, it
is expedient that, in the ease of Irish Railway Bills, all such
inquiries as are now conducted in London, by Committees of
both Houses of Parliament, should, after the termination of the
present session, take place in Ireland." Now when the Right
Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer appeared to think that
by this motion railway Legislation in Ireland would
be taken away from both Houses, he was mistaken.
He was informed by an Hon. Member beside him that in one
instance not less than thirty-three witnesses had been kept in
town entirely, at a great expence and inconvenience, and he
thought that when evidence might be taken in Dublin the
sooner it was done the better.
After a few words from Mr. F. FRENCH in explanation,
Mr. DILLON BROWNE said that it was a must impor-
tant matter that in the present distress some understanding
should be come to on the subject.
The gallery was then cleared.
The House then divided, when there appeared,
For the motion .
Against it .
Alajority against it... _44
POLING PLACES (IRELAND) BILL.
The House went into Committee on this Bill. The report
was ordered to be brought up this day (Wednesday).
COMMONS INCLOSURE BILL.
The House went into Committee, and the report was or-
dered to be brought up this day.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at half-past twelve o'clock.

[ADVERTISEMENT.] —DEAFNESS AND DEFECTIVE.
VISION RELIZVXD, SS), ALIBRMARLIFITAINT, PICCADILLY.—NewIy
invented acoustic tubes, for relief of extreme deafness, and when
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they are entirely different from all others, and are the smallest hear-
ing instruments construeted —measuring only a quarter of an inch in
their widest part; they may be securely adjusted in the ears unob-
served, and removed therefrom with as great ease and facility. Per-
sons are enabled to join in general conversation, and to hear most
distinctly in a place of worship, &c., and what should be greatly
considered, a natural expansion of the cavity of the ear is preserved
—a thickening or contraction of which ii many instances is par-
tially the cause of deafness—and by their use the unpleasant sen-
sation of singing noises in the ears is entirely obviated. Also
im-
proved hearing trumpets of every description. Immediately the
newly-invented spectacle lenses are placed before imperfect vision,
either by day or candlelight, that mist and dullness wbieh appear
before the eyes is at once removed, every object becomes clear and
distinet, so that the most aged defective sight beeomes bright and
brilliant, and is brought to its youthful, natural, and original state.
Also the most powerful achromatic telescopes, opera glasses. and
microscopes. Caution—Messrs. 3. and B. Solomon, opticians, are
not in any way connected with a person of the same name in their
immediate neighbourhood. nor in any part of the country. To prevent
mistakes, be cautious, and observe—only to be had a 139, Albermarle-
street, Piccadilly, opposite the Tor Hotel.,
BRIGHTON, APRIL 21.—The Marquis of Douro, Col.
Pringle, and John Wood, EQq., Chairman of the Board of
Excise, arrived here yesterday afternoon by the General
Stearn Navigation Company's packet Magnet, from Dieppe.

THE WELSH PRESS. --
On Triesday evening a dinner was given at Doll's Coffee*
house, PeNtenios ter-rove, by several gentlemen connected with.
the prlncileality of Wales, to Mr. James Rees, the proprietct
and publisleer of the Carnarron and Denllfle Herald, to re-
-cerd their sense of the talented and judicious manner In
which that journal has been conducted during- the period or
his management.
The chair was taken by John Williams, Esl., of Oxford-.
street, supported in the vice-chair by William Jones, .55%4
solicitor, of Greenwich.
The cloth having been removed, and due honour haying
been done to the usual loyal toasts,
The CHAIRMAN rose to propose the toast of the evening,
" Health to 31r.. Rees, and success to the CvrnArron an&
Denbigh Herald," and observed, that having narrowly the principles on which that paper had- been con-,
ducted since its establishment, and always feeling a deep
interest in the welfare of North Wales, he had with eueorth
nary pleasure sought the acquaintance and friendship of Mr.
Rees, as of a patriot and a benefactor of his country. 11.)
considered that the successful establishment of a -li.`ierab
paper at Carnarvon was one of the greateet ben,'Jit4
that one man could confer upon that district
flf
the
principality tending to elevate society, anf IA)
give the public mind an onward direction. Mr. nee,'
tiad conducted his paper with great spirit end he"
was a man determined to serve the cause of the
advocating those measures which tend to einancipe
from the influences of ignorance and oppression. IVlictl the
subject of the endowed schools of Wales was tb-St inuotcai
the Herald rendered its assistauce to. expose many Instances
of the shameful abuse of their funds. Much mote might be
done were the efforts of the Herald seconded by the landed
proprietary of Wales ; but he regretted to sar that the
Weleh gentry, as a body, were lamentably indifferent to the
improvement of the lower -classes. Indeed if the Welsh
population were lower in the scale of civilisation than their
fellow-subjects in other parts of the empire, most of the fault
lay- at the door of the Welsh gentry. Mr.. Williams then
adverted at considerable length to the Herald's abk.
advocacy of the Reform Bill in its original integrity.
the extension of the suffrage, the right of the -industrious

and
ip!c by

thern

poor to relief, its opposition to an irresponsible rural police
force, and the support of those great measures now under
discussion by the Legislature, when free-trade principles w
much less fashionable. He also adverted to the publica
by Mr. Rees of the Arnaethydd, a monthly guppleme
given with the Herald, containing information in the Welsh
language on agricultural subjects The toast was received
with great applause.
Mr.,REEI said, I hardly know how to express to you the
pleasurable and grateful feelings which on have excited. I
am sincerely grateful for the kind wayy in which you have
introduced me to the friends around, and the flattering man-
ner in which I have been received •
and lexperienceheart-
felt pleasure to learn that my
.humble
but sincere exertions
to make the Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald useful and bene-
ficial to the principality- are appreciated. It is true, that it
has ever been my pride and study to make the Herald inde-
pendent ; but I must not take the whole credit of its conduct
to myself ; I am associated with a gentleman to whom L
have entrusted the political and literary department of the
paper, and who has, I am bound to say, after some years' ex-
perience, discharged the trust reposed in him honestly and,
honourably. When the Herald was first announced iji the
year 1830, the proprietors then promised that it should con-
tain early and full reports of all public meetings and occur-
rences which might happen in the district. Since I have be-
come the proprietor I have spared neither trouble nor
expense to fulfil that promise. The paper was
also promised to unmask every abuse; to the best
of my ability I have fearlessly performed the task, however
irksome at times the task might be. Indeed there is nothing
that my means will permit, and the support I receive will
warrant, that I will not do, not only to maintain the proud
position I occupy as a journalist in North Wales, but to make
the paper equal to any journal in the kingdom. It would
hardly :become me to enumerate the benefits which I may
conceive have accrued to the principality by the establish-
ment of the Herald; but there are, I flatter myself, some
amongst the company who may recal to mind many instances
in which abuses have been exposed, am,lthe rights of the
subject vindicated. I shall now merely say, that yourappro-
bation of the coursa I have hitherto pursued will be a sti-
mulus to me to continue in the straightfmward path I have
marked out; and that at no very distant day the Herald
will be, in size as well as in talent and independence, equal
to any contemporary print. I again thank you most sin-
cerely for the kind and generous manner in which you have
testified your approval of my public conduct.
On the health of those patriotic gentlemen, Dr. Lewis
and Mr. Hugh Owen, being proposed, they animadverted at
considerable length on the merits of the different systems of
education in Wales, but we regret that space will not permit
us to publish their interesting remarks.
Several other gentlemen, including Messrs. W. Thomas,
0. W. Thomas, J. James, 'and 0. Rowland, addressed the
company on subjects of interests, chiefly that of the ednea-
tion of the lower classes of their countiTmen.
We may remark, that- it was unanimously resolved tin revive the Gwyneddigion Society.
After various toasncluding the health of the Editor of
the Carnarron Here, the Chairman and Vice-Chairman,
Mr. Davis of Wigmore-street, &c. &c., the company
separated.

A Supplement to the- London Gazette was published
last Evening, containing the following extract of a Dis-
patch received by the Secret Committee of the East In-
dia Company :
INDIA BOARD, APRIL 20, 1846,
The Secret Committee of the East India Company has this
day received, from the Governor-General of India, dispatch,
of which the following is an extract :

" The Governor-General of India to the Secret Committee.
" Camp, Lahore, Mh 4, 1846.
" On the 20th, the whole army marched toarc Lahore, four-
teen miles, and encamped on the Parade-ground, about two
and a half miles from the city gates.
" In the afternoon of the 20:h, the young Maharaja Da-
eep Sing was restored to the Palace of the Rulers of Lahore,
a charge of the Chief Secretary of the Government, F. Cur-
ie, EN., escorted by British officers and troops, in the men-
or described in the papers enclosed
" I considered it right-to mark, in this public manner, *he
ibmission of the Lahore Goverwnent to the British Power;
id to show that the restoration of the young- Maharaja to
s capital was the spontaneous act of the Di-Trish GOvern ent.

"On the 21st, the Chief Engineer and other officers in-
spected the citadel and gates of the town to select positions
for the British troops, by which I had determined that La-
hore should be occupied till further orders.
" Early on the morning of the 22d, a brigade of British
troops took formal possession of the citadel of Lahore, the
Badshashee Musjeed, and the Huzsooree Bagh.
" On receiving the report of his Excellency the Common
der-in-Chief, 1 issued the General Order, bearing date the
2201 ultimo. I considered the occupation of Lahore, and the
close of active operations in the field, a proper opportunity
for marking, by substantial reward, the gratitude of the
British Government to its faithful and brave Army, which
had fought so gloriously and so successfully; and I was glad
at being able thus to bring into prominent contrast the just
reward of discipline and obedience with the certain penalty
of insubordination and violence, as exemplified in the fate of
the two armies which had been so long the objects of mutual
observation, the one victorious in the field, and honoured
and bountifully rewarded by its Government; the other, in
spite of its exceeding numbers and advantageous positions,
vanquished in every battle, abandoned by a Government it
had coerced, and, with its shattered remains, left, but for the
interce,sion of its conquerors, to disperse with no provision
of any kind, and seek a precarious subsistence by rapine and
crime.
"On the 17th ultimo, the force under Brigadier Wheeler
crossed the Suttlej, a few miles below Loodianah, and occu-
pied the strong fort of Philor, which was abandoned on the
approach of the troops. Having left a garrison at Philor,
Brigadier Wheeler advanced to the banks of the Beas ; and
the presence of his disciplined force has given confidence of
protection to the inhabitants of the 1)ooab, who are stated
to be well satisfied with their change of rulers.
The Supplement to the Gazette, contains many other
official documents relating to the recent events in the
Punjaub, the whole of which have already appeared in
The Sun.

COURT CIRCULAR,
The Queen and Prince Albert walked early yesterday,
the royal gardens of Buckingham Palace.
yesterday,inavvWaiting.
Royaltng attended Highness
y PrinceLi euten an t -Alberte o rodeo e l Seymour,oLt en
horseback
Equerryet
.h
eeTrphciseriiern;Riysteairtldoll3,..yaig,i,hi
nn
andes
theetsgh the hrred
Princess
iocnfe es
se
theoAf
Palace.
al
took
kPri
theirnea u Alfred,su a
Her Majesty and Prince Albert, attended by Lady
Pert-
man, Hon. Miss Murray, Hon. Miss Napier, Lord Byron,
Iron. Colonel Grey, and Lieutenant-Colonel Seymour,
honoured the Italian Opera with their presence 3 esterday
*Portman has succeeded the Marchioness of Douro, as
cteheveeLednLaeiddnajdy g
Viscountiann NdS Waiting
st
diynmdg
Drummond,inr
eto
ayi, thea
Sirs Queen.
tßobert
as eo bteLhr oter Lorddoutrwin
ooa r
aylßvyr
ihaniaot
nn
Was
iting
hasto
succeeded s cet -ro
ColonelAlaies t3'
Berkeley;
herHleir uaj
aj
e.styes.ty the Queen Dowager took an airing yesterday
in a carriage, attended by the lion. Miss Hudson and the
llon. Miss Mitchell. Her Majesty visited her Royal High-
ness the Duchess of Kent, at Clarence House, St. James's.
Their Royal Highnesses the Duchess of Gloucester and the
Duchess of Cambridge visited her Majesty the Queen Dowager
yesterday at Marlborough-house.
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent arrived al her
residence, Clarence-house, Si. James's, at two o'clock yester-
day afternoon, from Frogmore-house, Windsor.
Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cam-
bridge visited the Duchess of Gloucester yesterday at Glou-
cester-house.
His:Serene Highness the Hereditary Prince of Saxe Meinin-
gen, attended by Sir Andrew Barnard, Captain Taylor, and
Mr. Feilding, left Marlborough House yesterday morning in
a carriage and four for the Regent Dock-yard, Woolwich.
His Serene Highness returned to town in the afternoon.
The Danish Minister transacted business yesterday at the
Foreign-office.
The Commissioners of the Metropolitan Termitt had a
meeting on Monday. There were present Viscount Can-
ning, the Right Hon. J. C. Herries, Sir Frederick Smith, and
the Lord Mayor. The Commissioners held another meeting
yesterday.
Mr. Mayers, agent for Barbadoes, had an interview with
Mr. Secretary Gladstone yesterday at the Colonial-office.
Mr. Edmund Nugent, agent for Antigua, had also an inter-
view with the Right Hon. Gentleman.
view Mr.
with John
th
eWcoho da
n,
official residence in Dowing- street.
cC
1113 Chairmanh
eo f E txhceh
e.F4 xu
ec
ri s ey, e
sl
ti
ea
rdd
aa
yn
ai nt t
s. -

LIVES OF THE QUEENS OF ENGLAND, VOL. I. By
which will
E s e
prove . " a Thisgrea its
tthhaet firstadditionpvolumertoomE inngenlitsuhonfmhdaeiesrs series
oTfnwOlirAsks wR
No better supplement to ourfnannfanraelsonßcdtouhutt
elod t
bold
oee l
dasupopu.ltireuidetohfana
well-written biographies of our kings and queens. In our
since
et
the
c histories,onqu
Conquest,
dcohannogtesfiwnhedich society has
progress
ofof itirhie-
edosteiwlrlyue-elssltr;caoitnnioddnees.ecde,
edfic weioe think
tilndo bbtelletetdeervised means
thoafns übpy-
ppvPwle:rio:tlipeinuclgdlehi faoettnrilfneosiasorsiculicibegojthteyetldtaidnns historicala thing
adn
tphaessleivdeosveorf inthseilemnocne
'mils of Eyngland. Each age, by this
means, might find its fitting illustration in the person of
siot7.
Easngmlaunedh,'
light
tshuopowint
Miss Strickland her' Lives of
sovereign.
Mr. Roscoe, in his ' Lives ofw the
hthowe political thisinide,
,awclni
character
doubtless be the
ee
oa Qurrrui carried out.
annals, as at a former period the personal character of the
sovereign had everything to do with the aspect of his times.
From various sources Mr. Roscoe has drawn facts which
have never yet appeared in relation to the life of William
the Conqueror. If the succeeding volumes should prove as
interesting: as this one of the great Norman, we can imagine
Chronicle.
no more successful series of books."-7Vaki.y