The Sun.
London, England, 1848-07-11 00:00:00

LONDON,

,

liament that Europe was in so threatening a condition
that it would be necessary to keep up their naval and
military establishments, then he should say it would not be
right to go on without making their income more than
their expenditure ; but if, as the present induced him
to think, that a prospect existed of the settlement
of the peace of Europe, he should then say the Go-
vernment would be bound rather by the exercise of the
most rigid economy to bring the expenditure within
the income, than endeavour to make it up by additional
taxation.—(Cheers.) But at all events, at present,
with things so unsettled, and a threatening aspect in
many quarters, it was not advisable to propose any
change. It may be, as he had said, that peaceful
counsels would: prevail, and that no danger to the
general peace of Europe may exist in a few months
hence, in which case it must be absolutely necessary to
bring their expenditure within their income, without
any additional taxation.—(Hear.) He also begged
leave to submit to the House that there was no question
of the prohibition of slave sugar, or humanity in one
way or another, then before it. Those who had objec-
tions to the admission of slave-grown sugar must vote
for such admission if they vote for the proposition of
the Hon. Gentleman. There was no difference in that
respect between the two plans; but that in the Govern-
ment was, that, without any undue risk to the revenue,
it provided both for the great body of the people of this
country by giving a supply of cheap sugar, and gave a
better chance to the West India planters to recover
their former losses. (

Mr. GOULBURN believed they were bound to take
the best means they could to place their colonies in such
a position as to enable them to undersell all foreign
sugars whatever. In the consideration of the two plans
before the House they ought to consider in the first
place the interests of the colonies, and in the next, taking
care that no undue encouragement should be given to
the slave trade. The Noble Lord talked of abandoning
this year 300,0001., 500,000/. in the next, and in the
fourth year a million, as if a sum of that kind could be
dispensed with in the present state of the revenue. He
told them he could not perceive what exigencies the
present state of Europe might give rise to, and yet he
called on them to dispense with so large a sum of the
public revenue. He (Mr. Goulburn) found fault with
the two plans, because there was not a proper distinction
drawn between those classesof colonists who were ruined
by the legislation of that House, and deprived of labour
by the slave trade, and those possessions of the British
Crown in the East Indies, that were not so affected.
When they looked at the two classes of possessors, and
saw that the West Indies had a special claim, they should
not only have given them an advantage over the foreign
consumer, but against those classes of her Majesty's
subjects who did not so suffer. Driven, however, to
take a choice, he had no hesitation whatever in adopting
the plan of his Hon. Friend, because he believed, in the
first instance, that the plan of the Noble Lord would
seriously affect their finances ; and again, because he
believed that that of his Hon. Friend would give confi•
dente and security to their West Indian colonies. If
the revenue were flourishing, by all means he should
say reduce the duty on sugar, and they would have, as
he believed, a great increase in the consumption. The
Noble Lord admitted he should lose 250,000/. in the first
year, and 500,000/. iu the next. He referred to the
articles of coffee and cocoa, to show the great advan-
tage of reduction, but they were not dealing with those
exports, they were dealing with the reduction of one
shilling in the pound on sugar. And as for the present
state of Europe, was it possible for any man to say that
they would not be called on before long to put
whenputfor ward
their best resources?—(Hear, hear.) A
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asking his Righthinto Hon.ie
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taxa-
tion, he totally misunderstood him. I w
to such an imputation, for he recommended the a
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of no such proposition. If it be true,
an increase of the protecting dutyincreased the amount
of the consumer, it must follow that a reductionwill have as was said, that
a contrary effect; but if the Noble Lord looked to the
great reductions which took place in 1845, he would find
that the consumer gained but a small sum, the reduction
depending more on the supply than any reduction of duty.
Then let not the House or the country be led astray by
the notion that the plan of his Hon. Friend would impose
an additional sum on the great body of the consumers
of the country. He believed that if the plan of the
Government were carried the evils which now pressed
on the West Indies would be continued, and it would
therefore be impossible not to look these evils in the
face on a future occasion. The Noble Lord said that he
understood the effect of the plan would be beneficial to
the West India planters; but the Noble Lord had not
shown in what way this advantage would arise. The Noble
Lord had not taken into account the fact that the Cuba
planter would act upon the plan, and, by the continued
employment of slave labour, defeat the views which he
suggested. His objection to the Government plan bad
relation to its financial character, and his belief was
that it would be a failure.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
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The Hort. GENTLEMAN declined to accede, and the
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The second resolution was then put, as it appears in
the tabular form.

Mr. BAILLIE, on brown clayed sugar, or sugar ren-
dered by any process equal in quality to brown clayed,
and not equal in quality to white clayed, for every cwt.,
being proposed, moved as an amendment, that the diffe-
rential duty of seven shillings should continuo for six
years, and that the Chancellor of the Exchequer might
arrange the descending scale al the expiration of that
period. He offered it as a suggestion, and if it was
adopted, it would give great satis!action.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
did not understand the value of the suggestion. Ho con-
sidered it better that the scale should descend during the
six years, as proposed in the resolution.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he thought his Hon.
Friend, the Member for Inverness, was right in endea-
vouring to protect the colonial-grown sugar from the

compeiitionof slave-grown sugar.
The amendment was negatived without a division.
Mr. BOUVERIE then moved, " That provisions bo

(Hear, hear.) The consequence had been that while
the amount of pounds weight imported in 1842 was
37,000,000, it rose in 1847 to 46,000,000. If there was
nothing last year like the increase in the drticle of sugar
which might have been expected, it arose no doubt from
various causes, but all must be aware how desirable it
was that the middle and working classes should have a
plentiful supply of this nutritious article, and how ready
they were to take advantage of every opportunity offered
them to augment the consumption. lie should, there-
fore, say that it was bad policy, when they compared the
two scales of duty proposed for the consideration of the
House, not to adopt that which gave greater chance to a
large increase of consumption, thereby improving the
conditio❑ of the great body of the people, by enabling
them to add to their domestic comforts, and giving the
West India planters the best chance of increasing a
demand for the article, without risking any injury to the
public revenue.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Ox-
ford, who spoke on Friday night, objected to the plan
proposed by her Majesty's Government on account of
the loss which would accrue to the revenue, for he
doubted if they should have such an increase of con-
sumption this year as they were led to expect. It no
doubt may be so as regarded the present year, but the
Right Hon. Gentleman and the House should recollect
that various causes existed for that expected decrease;
there was, in the first instance, the Committee sitting on
the West Indian question a good number of months,
and an uncertainty existing as to the changes which
might be proposed, on the alteration contemplated in
the duty on the article. In the beginning of the year
there was a remarkable increase in the supply, and that
no doubt would continue so, as well as in the consump-
tion, when the question becamo finally settled. But
other questions were raised with respect to the state of
the West Indies, and it was argued by Hon. Gentlemen,
who said, that as they were totally ruined it was better
to adopt the plan of the Hon. Member for Leominster
than that of the Government. He (Lord John Russell)
would not say what advantage the plan of the lion.
Gentleman had over that of the Government, which
gave a protection of 7s. for the first year, 6s. 6d.
for the next, 6s. for the third, ss. 6d. for the
fourth. The Hon. Gentleman's gave a protection of 7s. ;
but if the question was whether they should have a few
shillings or not, he thought the proposition of the Go-
vernment was much to be preferred. With regard to
the cultivation of sugar, he thought that even in that
view it would effect more good, and that even taking the
figures of the Hon. Member for Kidderminster as correct,
there was no reason for despairing. The planters in
Cuba, as he had been informed by a gentleman, suf-
fered as much as those in the West Indies, for every
ton of sugar imported from that colony for the past year
was done at a loss of Si. per ton ; thus showing that a
large production in the West Indies—larger than any
which had taken place for many years—had produced ill
effects in Cuba as well as in their colonies in the West
Indies. The Noble Lord opposite the Member for
King's Lynn estimated that 200,000 tons of sugar would
come into this country from their British possessions.
He (Lord John Russell) had a statement by him—
Lord G. BENTINCK observed that his statement
was, a supply of 200,000 tons would como from the sth
of July, 1848, to sth of July 1849.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The estimate which he held in
his hand calculated that 135,000 tons would come from
their British West Indian possessions, 62,000 from Mau-
ritius, and 60,000 from the East Indies, including in all
257,000 tons. Of course he could not guarantee the
perfect accuracy of that statement ; he could only state
that he had it from the most authentic sources, and that
he believed it to be the most accurate. For his own part,
he thought they would have a consumption exceeding
300,000 tons from the beginning of July in the present
year to July, 1849. The Right Hon. Gentleman the
Member for the University of Oxford complained of a
statement made by his Right Hon. Friend, and said that,
in his opinion, some additional taxes should be put
up to make up the deficiency in the revenue. He
(Lord John Russell) thought the Right Hon. Gentle-
man said that the Government proposed to diminish the
expenditure 650,0001.: that 500,0001. being the amount
of appropriation, by having it paid at once instead of
talking it over, they might reckon the whole amount of
deficiency to be 400,000/. or 500,000/. With regard to
the suggestion of the Right Hon. Gentleman that they
should get an additional tax to make up that deficiency,
considering the present state of Europe, he, for one, was
not prepared to say that an additional tax should be
imposed on the people of this country. If it should ap-
pear at the commencement of the next session of Par