The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-25 00:00:00

RETURNS.

The Marquis of LANSDO NNE laid upon the table
of the House the minutes of the evidence given before
the Metropolitan Railway Commission ;f also a report of
the Commissioners of Parkhurst prison, Isle of Wight ;
also a return of the amount of money paid for the Irish
police and constabulary.___

RAILWAY COMNIISSIONERS BILL.

This Bill was read a first time.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, August 24.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
RAILWAY COMMISSIONERS' BILL.

The Railway Commissioners' Bill was then read a
third time and passed.
MEXICO.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX.
CHEQUER, that the other orders of the day be now
proceeded with,
Lord G. BENTINCK said he would take that oppor-
tunity to call the attention of the House to the present
state of the relations between the United States and
' ‘lexico. The annual amount exported by this country to
Mexico was some half million per annum. The number of
mining and other companies in that country, conducted by
British merchants, was above sixty-five. The capital
involved was about ten millions, and the debt owing by
Mexico to Great Britain was 10,200,0001. It was
therefore evident, that anything that affected
that country was of the first imp Ttance to
England. It would be in the recollection of the House,
that it was now from ten to fifteen years that the majority
of land speculators called the attention of the American
Government to the propriety of forming settlements in
Texas. The desire of speculating in land became enormous
till at last the Government of Texas transferred, for the
sum of 2,000,000 dollars, a tract of country to the exte-nt of
400 square leagues. Mexico, the sovereign country,
rofused to sanction this annexation, and from that time
it was the putpose of America to stir up rebellion
in the former country. An army of 800 men was
eubstquently organised, which army consisted of 760
Americans, and only about 40 Texans. Yet this was
called the efforts of Texas for freedom. It would be
also recollected that when Mexico threw off the
domination of the elder country, it was determined
that no slaves should for the future be im•
ported, but that slavery should be altogether abolished.
Matters went thus on till the year 1845, when a further
manifesto of independence was issued at the convention
of Austen. The number of persons who signed that
convention was sixty-one, and of these forty-nine w.-re
Americans, yet this convention was made the excuse
for further demands on the part of America.
The designs of the United States of America did not,
however, cease with the annexation of Texas, for they
were at present seeking to aggrandise their power by
the annexation of Mexico and California. There
never was a more flimsy pretext urged for aggression
than was put forth by the United States for enter ing
the territory of Mexico. Never was there a case more
unjustifiable and less provoked ; and unless some intee
ference took place Mexico must succumb, and be also
annexed to the United States. The state of Louisiana
sent 5,000 men for the invasion of Mexico, and 2,000
more afterwards followed. As the question of the an-
nexation of Texas was the electioneering test for the
Presidency of the United States at the late elections, so
would the annexation of Mexico be the cry in 1848. The
great object of
.the Americans was to extend their domi-
nion and to sogreat an extent did this feelingpievail, that
it was not unusual to hear this sentiment—" May the
stars that bespangle the flag of America be so thick as
to leave no room for the stripes." His object in calling
attention to this subject was, that her Majesty's Govern-
ment might be fully aware of the necessity of giving their
best attention to the movements of that country. The
organ of the United States' Government, the Washing-
ton Union, denied that there had been any offer of
mediation by this country, and as this conflicted with
the statements made by the late Government, he wished
to know from the Noble Lord at the head of foreign
affairs, whether any mediation had been offered, and
what had been the result.

Lord PALMERSTON should have had great plea-
sure in answering the question which his Noble Friend
had put to him. He trusted, however, that the House
would think that it was most fitting for him, in the po•
ition which he had the honour to hold, if he did not
follow his Noble Friend through the whole of the obser-
vitions which his Noble Friend had made with respect
to past transactions between this country, the United

Stales, Mexico, and Texas, in regard v) the anuexation

of Texas to the United States. 7 These were matters
which bAonged to past periods; they were facts hit( ri-
cally known; and he thought the Howe would agree
with him that it would not be useful and was not neces-
sary, that he should give any opinion upon thea4. His
Noble Friend had expressed an opinion as to the irjury
that was arising to Britizh interests from the war be-
tween Mexico and the United States. He (Lord
Palmerston) entirely concurred with his Noble
Friend in thinking that• in the present state
of the international relations between the states

of the civilized world, it was impos,,ible that
nny war could arise between two independent na-

Lions %ithout causing injury to the interests of those

countries witieh might happen to have relations of eorE
tuerce with the two belligerent states ; and he believed
that just in proportion as commerce was set tree from all
those restrictions which set a limit to trade and circus
scribed its extent, in that very came proportion would it
be the interest of all nations that peace should prevail
throughout the world ; and theretore it was that he
looked to the progress that had lately been made by
those doctrines of free trade as most satisfactory, because
he believed they were ellculated to promote the cause of
peace all over the world.—(Cheers.) He thought, how-
ever, that his Noble Friend had in some degree exagge-
rated the facilities with which (as he had stated) the
United States might establish their dominion over the
_ _

territory of Mexic3.—(llear, hear.) That territory was
vast in extent, and in no proportion• to its vastness was
it difficult 14,r military operations.—(Hear, hear.) That
territt ry was inhabited by a -very large mutation-
-8,000,000 or 9,000,000 he thomr,ht.
Mr. BERNAL—Between 8,000,000 and 10,000,000.

Lord PALMERSTON resumed—That territory, it
,eemed, was inhabited by between 8,000,000 and
10,000,000 of persons, of a different race, he believed,
from the race who peopled the United States ; of a re-
legion different from the religion of the people of the
United States, and therefore, though it might have been
easy for the people of the United States to incorporate
with the inhabitants of Texas, which was tilled and in-
habited almost entirely by settlers from the United
States, the question, he could assure the House,- became
very different when the country sought to be incorpo-
rated was inhabited by a race so very. different as the
Mexicans were from the Americans. But he would wish
to say nothing which could in any degree affect that cha-
racter for impartiality which befitted a Government that
had made offers of mediation between two contendinL;
states.—(Chet•rs.) His Noble Friend doubted the accu-
racy of the statement that an offer had been made by the
late Government of mediation on•the part of Great Bri-
tain between the two parties. He (Lord Palmerst.,n)
was glad, in justice to his predecessors, that his Noble
Friend enabled him to set that question right. The
facts of the ease were shortly these was perfectly
true, as had been asserted by the Right Honourable
Baronet at the head of her Majesty's late Government,
that an offer was made to, the United States' Govern-
ment, and also communicated to the Government of
Mexico, which her Majesty's late Government under-
stood and meant to be an offer of mediation; that that
offer was conveyed, and, as he thought, properly con-
veyed, in terms which left a great latitude of interpreta-
tion to the Government of the United States. Our posi-

Lion with regard to the United States just at that period
was not that which was becoming the character of a
mediator. Our disputes and negotiations with reference
to the Oregon question had not come to a final settle-
ment. It was possible, notwithstanding the negotiations
then going on between the United States and ourselves,
that the question might assume a position which would
have divested us altogether of the character belonging
to a mediator. and then the mediation of which we had
m4de an offer would have been put out -of the question.
N9W the offsr which was made, by her Majest3's late
Government to the Government or the United States
was in effect this—that if the Government of the
United States were disposed to ask the mediation
of the Government of Great Britain, that mediation
would be forivally offered and. accorded. He thought
that was
they were placed.
going as far as the British Government could
have gone in the position in which
tates, Well, then, the Government of the n
consi-
deringinwhieh whatthe hoerhegaodnsqtauteesdtitlitphlarceegdarGdretaot
Bthreitapi(n)siwtii(t)ini
direferenceent
to
expressto the
any
o Unitedopinion
States,(in i
n did
tt
hh
ei n cit expe
answer to not
communi-
cation from the British Government. The Government
of the United States thought that it did not require an
answer to be made to it. It had been intended by her
Majesty's Government that they were to be left to ol.) as
they pleased, and accordingly no umbrage was taken by
the Government of this country at that omission to
answer their note. He had had an interview, not long
ago, with Mr. M'Lane, who had been obliged, he
(Lord Palmerston) was sorry to say, on account of his
health, to return to the United States—and he (Lord
Palmerston) was sure that every body who had had the
pleasure of knowing that distinguished man would agree
in regretting that we had lost the benefit of his services
here as the organ for promoting that mediation between
the two countries now at war. Whoever might he
sent by the Government of the United States to supply
his place, he (Lord Palmerston) was sure that no man
could have more at heart the maintenance of good rela-
tions between Great Britain and the United States, or
more fully possessed of all the qualities that could en-
able him to carry his wishes in that respect into effect.
But, as he had said, he had lately had an interview with
Mr..,M‘Lane, and he found from him, that was the un-
derstanding on the part of the United States with re-
spect to the offer of mediation. But since he (Lord
Palmersto::) had had the good fortune, immediately
after his taking possession of his present office, to in-
terchange vsith Mr. 3l•Lane the ratifications of the
treaty between this country and the [Tutted '?ashes re-

specting the Oregon territory, he had given instructions
t• Mr. Pakenham to renew the offer of mediation on the
part of this country to the Government of the United
States in such a shape as would require an answer.—
(Cheers.) A corresponding communication had been
made on the part of this country to Mexico, and it
depended on the answers this country received, how far
this country might entertain hopes of bringing the question
to an amicable settlement ; and he was sure that the
hopes of all well-wishers of this country, and of the
United States, would be that that should be the result.
He thought it was a question of some importance, as
illustrating a general principle, that the United States,
having a war with Mexico which involved a great
increase of expenditure, and finding that their revenue
was unable to meet the demands of the war, bethought
themselves how best they might remedy that deficiency.
And what was the step which the United States' Go-
vernment took for the purpose ? That step was to
lower the duties of their tariff.—(Hear, hear.) When
they wanted revenue they said, " Oar high protective
duties, which are all very well in a time of peace, and
when revenue is no object to us, must be abandoned now
that we are about to commence a war which requires a
great and augmepting revenue."—(Hear, hear.) This
was a fact which afforded a strong illustration of the
truth of the doctrines which showed that freedom of
commercial intercourse was not only conducive to the
development of the industry of a country, but was the
surest foundation of an augnienting and prosperous
revenue.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI said British merchants were more
deeply interested in this question than his Noble Friend
thought, and he could assure the House that those
merchants entertained a conviction that the political
existence of Mexico was at present et stake. It would,
therefore, have been some consolation to them had the
Noble Lord, the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, informed them that his negotiation had
been accepted.—(Hear, hear.) That was, in fact,
the only answer from the Treasury which could give
any consolation or hope to the British merchant. He
could not find either hope or consolation in the
vague statement of the Noble Lord, that in the
development of the principles of free trade they would
find the best means of stolping foreign wars. He did
not credit that theory, and, under present circumstances,
he was less willing to credit it when the Noble Lord
told them in another part of his observations that the
reason the commercial duties of America were reduced
was to increase their means of prosecuting war.—
(Hear, hear.) Now he had said that it was the
opinion f British merchants that the political ,xistence
of Mexico was at stake, and that was, perhaps, the
best authority for his Noble Friend bringing forward
that subject almost on the last day of the session. Cir-
cumstances of the most fatal character might occur
in Mexico before they met again ; and it was the
knowledge of this no doubt which had induced his
Noble Friend to call the attention of Government and
the people of England to the present position of
that kingdom. The Noble Lord the Secretary
of State fer Foreign Affairs had remarked that
the case of Texas was a matter of history. It was
because it was a matter of history that his Noble
Friend had referred to it. It was an illustra
Lion of a system which had already proved
most prejudicial to the interests of the
English nation.--(Hear.) Now just the same system
was being pursued with regard to Mexico, and his Noble
Friend and himself, and the merchants of Eng-
land, were anxious that the case of Mexico should
not become a matter of history.—(Hear, hear.) When
the merchants of England lent their capital to Mexico
they received in return a mortgage upon two
Mexican provinces, and when the people could
not pay the interest, at a subsequent period,
in the year 1837, passed a law of compensation, which
was both equitable and just for the English creditor.—
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lent the Secretary of State
tor Foreign Affairs, who utelerstood the question
well, had referred them to the very satisfac-
tory arrangement which had been come to be-
tween this country and America upon the sub-
j-ct of the Oregon treaty, but, in his opinion,
that treaty was only a step in advance to the con-
summation of the United States' plans with
regard to Mexico. The policy of the United States
had been to surround Mexico, and this treaty would be
the means of extending the territories of the United
States to the Pacific. Now, without meaning to com-
plain in any way of this treaty, the question with
the British merchant was, whether the Govern-
ment of this country saw a fair probability of
preserving the political integrity of Mexico They,
therefere, wished, at the close of the session, that
the attention of the country should be called to the sub
ject, in order that the Minister of the Crown ehould be
held directly responsible for what might occur, as far
as he could legitimately be so —(Hear.). No country in
the world was so fertile as Mexico, and it might be
said, while it produced every vegetable of other
countries—while ,it produced sugar, coffee, and to-
bacco, at the same time its • mines produced the
circulating medium of Europe to the i xtent of 20,000,000
of dollars—(Hear, hear.) What alarmed the British
merchant was, that there existed no power of
self-government in Mexico, and every state was making
overtures to different countries for protection. There
was a large trade carried on even now between this
country and Mexico, and therefore it was, independent
of the loan, that British merchants were anxious
to have this state of uncertainty le moved.—(llear,
hear.) In 1842 he metre(' ior returns kk hich showed
that, upon the average, the trade between this country
and Mexico amounted to half a million sterling per
annum, while if they went back to those years, such SF
1824, when peace and tranquillity prevailed in Mexico,
it exceeded one mil ion sterling ; and had
this country preserved that tranquillity the trade
by this time must have exceeded two millions sterling.
Ministers; however, had made use of a weapon which,
when applied by an ancient monarchy, was always
strong. They bad made use of diplomacy ;
but where was the use of holding a diplomatic
intercourse with such cabinets as had latterly
existed in Mexico, at which the commandant for the
time being of the capital was at the head, and
which seldom or never lasted more than a
mouth?—(Hear, hear.) Diplomacy proved exceedingly
effective when it was resorted to between this country
and such Courts as those of St. Petersburgh and the
Tuileries. Now Government had made use of treaties
arid resorted to diplomacy, but still without
effect. There was yet a third course for
them to pursue. Would they act towards
Mexico as they acted towards other states under
similar circumstances ? Would they protect Mex-
ico ? Would they do for Mexico what they
had done for Greece ? Would they come for-
ward in combination with other great powers who had
particular interews in M xico and establish a pro-
tectorate which should give Mexico ten years of tree-
' quillity ? This was the question the merchants of
England wanted answered, and unless it were answered
favourably, unless they pursued a determined- and vi-
gorous policy with regard to Mexico, their North
American empire would in the end be subjected to
similar attacks.—(Hear.)
Mr. BERNAL said he was the last man to underrate
the importance of this subject, or the valuable state-
ments of the Honourable Member for Shrewsbury,
but he, at the same time, did not believe that
any Government would be justified in adopting
the course suggested by the Noble Lord on the
data that he had put forward. The views of the
Noble Lord were most chimerical, end if carried

nto practice would be most dangerous to thiscountry. Did
he wish the British Government to parade the Pacific with
our fleet for the purpose of demonstrating to America
our wishes and demands concerning Mexico ? Let
the House wait until the next meeting of Parliament
before they adopted the motion of the Noble Lord; becaese
in the meantime the United States might very probably
retrace their steps with regard to Mexico. The Eng-
lish Government had interfered with Greece, and
he must certainly admit that the result of that interfer-
ence was not such as to induce him to sanction a
similar interference with Mexican affairs.
Mr. P. EIOWARD said, that although the Mexicans
had not hitherto been successful in those pitched battles
which they had fought with the United States,
he was not without hope that every well-regu-
lated mind would side with those who were de-
fending their homes and homesteads, and that

the king suffering tenacity of the Spanish character
would be able to maintain themselves against the well
disciplined forces of America. He hoped that the
Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) would be successful in
his efforts to settle the differences between Llexico and
America.

Mr. WAKLEY said he always considered the Noble
Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs to be a man of
peace, and he (Mr. Wakley) must say that he had now
been put in a very anomalous position, and the Noble
Lord must feel very much struck at the complaints
now brought against him, that he had not suilimently
interfered between two contending foreign powers.
lie begged of the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) to
purswe him old policy, notwithbtanding the complaints of
Lion, Members.

SMALL DEBTS BILL.
The order of the day was then read, and on the re-
port being brought up,
Lord G. SOMERSET asked the Right Honourable
Baronet, the. Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment, whether it was intended that the judges to be
appointed under this Bill should be allowed to sit in
Parliament ?

Sir GEORGE GREY said, that the Bill would in-
capacitate the judges from sitting in Parliament ?
Mr. WAKLEY said that it was with great regret
that he saw that attorneys were to be excluded from the
office of judges in the courts to be formed under the
present Bill. He did not think it wise to
exclude attorneys from these offices, and to
fix upon the public an inferior class of professional men,
He thought the best course would be to encourage in
attorneys a feeling of emulation, and give them admis-
sion to the judgeships to be appointed under
the provisions of this Act. No argumeett,
had been advanced to show that this class were
disqualified from holding these offices. In consequence
of the great patronage created by this and other Bills
there would soon be no such thing as independence at
the bar, for all those persons connected with it would
seek, by their obsequiousness and obedience to the
ruling powers, to obtain those situations ; and it was
most unjust, cruel, unwise, and impolitic to exclude those
parties, and he would therefore beg to renew the pro-
posal which he bad made on a former occasion, namely,
to admit attorneys as judges in the courts.
On the motion of Sir G. GREY, several additional
clauses were proposed and agreed to in the Bill.
Mr. WAKLEY then rose to move the insertion of
the words in the 41st clause, after the word " barrister,"
"or as attorney-at-law. "
Sir G. GREY said that, after the decision which had
already been come to,on the subject, he was not prepared
t4l concede the proposed alteration.
Mr. WAlLlartaid tho conseitlOWN of the /PUPS'
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