The Sun.
London, England, 1846-04-24 00:00:00

becauseeef the infinite rapidity with which they passed hands.
He, was satisfied that the present proposal would have the effect
of more effectually prevenene tricks being practised than under
the present law. He wished not to imp:ach the privileges
which these several members possessed; but he. at the same
time must remind the House of the peculiar position in which
these member, were placed. As, for instance, in the case of
a large company, it was very evident that they possessed
p .wens to make interest in the smaller companies, by
buying up their shares, and against such reports he had no
such complaints to make. Yet while saying thus much, lie be-
lieved that the resolution was no sufficient remedy for the evil ;
for it was well known that the shares changed hands with ra:.
pidity, almost with incredible rapidity, and that consequently
the danger that was to be apprehended, and the risk, of which
so much had been said, was to be provided against.
Mr. GISBO N E would only detain the House but a very
short time,. and, in doing so, he should beg to refer to his
lion. Friend the Member for Manchester, and the Right Hon.
the Chancellor of the Exchequer. In doing so, he must say
that the course which the Government had prescribed was
contrary to the object which the Bill was intended to attain.
Their object evidently was to carry a restraining Bill ; hut by
this measure it would seem that, uncisr the present state of the
law, such a measure was impossible. He wished that the
Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, would
act upon the principle of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Now how stood the case? A man was allotted 100 shares in
one of these now companies, upon which he paid a deposit of
2/. per share on 2001., and afterwards sold them at a premium
for 700'. Now he was informed, at least he gathered from
the newspapers, that in the event of the Government Bill not
passing, the purchaser of the scrip would be at liberty to bring
an action to recover back the premium he had paid, and how,
let him ask, would this operate? Why, when called together
under these resolutions the scripholders would say to them-
selves, " If we sanction the breaking up of this company we
shall abandon our right to receive the premiums we paid on
our shares."
'the SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it was quite clear that
that the purchaser of scrip never could recover back the price
he had paid to the original allottee.
Mr. GISBORNE was glad he had called attention to this
point, for it would have the effect of appeasing the public
mind on the subject.
Lord SANDON had but a few observations to make upon
the subject of these resolutions. He confessed he had received
them with most hearty satisfaction, and should give
them his cordial support.—( Hear, hear.) The prin-
ciple would be for the Committee, in deciding upon
the various railway projects, te discriminate between the inde-
pendent lines and those which were intended to be constructed
by companies already established. He should feel himself per-
fectly at liberty in deciding unhesitatingly in favour of those
schemes which promised most fairly for the benefit of the coun-
try. If the House thought proper for them to be carried into
effect, and that they would result in the public good, there
would be no difficulty in allowing these projects to be pro-
ceeded with. The only other point to which he should call the
attention of the House was as to the inconvenience of fixing
upon the period antecedent to the third reading as a time at
which these resolutions should have effect. It had been stated
by those who were sensible that their Bills were not likely to
be carried out, that they would not have sufficient
time to canvass the feelings of their constituents, nor could
they take upon themselves the responsibility of witholdieg
the further progress of the Bill. He would appeal to his
Right Hon. Friend, whether parties were not at present com-
pelled by the sessional order of the House to go into Com-
mittee within a limited period from the presentation of the
connected adopted,
withi w o
petition ? He thought that that sessional order should be
amended in some degree, in order that the parties promoting
Bills might be restrained from going into Committee. If the
ccoountresentihoeu washofadmasuzygepsatretdiescwiloitualtde the
contention of many parties connected with Bills, would re-
move a great difficulty, and would issue in reconciling, to
uldfa
some extent, the conflicting interests of the railway public.
Mr. WILLIAMS observed, that amongst the numerous
Bills before the House, there were several which contem-
plated the formation of long lines of railway, and which were
in possession of enormous capital. Was he to understand the en-
tire capital of these companies was to remain in the hands of the
directors, to be disposed of at their will and caprice? The persons
who had requested him to bring this question before the
House were of opinion, that the class of Bills which comprised
large undertakings might be dealt with in rather a more sum-
mary manner than Bills of this description generally before the
House. Now, it was no very simple thing to make an applica-
tion for a Bill in the next session of Parliament. There were
the details of the traffic to be gone into—the surveys must be
completed—the whole of the notices must be properly served,
and the estimates must be minutely calculated and fixed on.
And further, by the standing orders of the House, an entirely
new subscription deed must be made out. With those com-
panies who were compelled to wind up their affairs, by giving
power to them to enable them to come before the House at
any future session of Parliament, much difficulty would be
created in the operation of the law, and many subsequent al-
terations would be required.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the object of the
resoluti .ns was merely to enable the parties connected with
railway companies to dissolve, which was a right that they at
pr sent were not legally entitled to. But with respect to
giving them power as regarded any future application to
Parliament, that was a purpose not at all contemplated by the
Bill.

Mr. WILLIAMS again urged that power had been taken
by the managing directors to take the control of the capital
into their own hands, and they had retained this immense
amount of money to proceed with their Bills at any future
session ; and there were no legal means by which the share-
holders could compel the managing directors to wind up. The
directors had the power of adding to their number, and conse-
quently of increasing their influence. He had, therefore,
hoped that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would take into
his consideration the position of parties connected with projects
to be carried on to a future session. They were placed in a
worse position than those who had Bali already before the
House.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL observed that it was one o 1

the especial objects of the Bill tO pre;vide for that class of
cases which had been alluded to by'the Horn. Gentleman oppo-
site. That power would be given to a certain number of
shareholders in the undertaking, which wouldirender it compnl-
sory in them to wind up the affairs of the company.
Mr. COLLETT was much. obliged to her Majesty's Soli-
citor-General for having explained various. points in the reso-
lutions before the House. He considered that,,the directors
of many of these schemes had been very ill-treated—they had
been subjected to a deal of bard work, were exposed to Misrepre-
sentation and insinuations of various kinds, and yet they were
bound by their position to retain the original amount of the
shares which they had. With respect to the third reading, he
really thought, that before any progress was made in railway
Bills that some regulation should be adopted to prevent the
further carrying on of those schemes before they arrived at
that period. He would only say, with respect to the estimates
of the construction of the lines, there was no increase what-
ever in the price of the materials. There was only a slight
increase in the price of labour, and a trifling increase In the
coat of conveyance. He firmly believed that contracts could
be perfiirined at a lower rate during the present year, than
they could have been done during the list'
,year,
or any previous year. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by
expressing a hope, that the powers of the different companies
might still be continued in the hands of the directors for the
purpose of winding up the undertaking.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it was the intention cif
the Bill to enable the shareholders to bring before the directors,
in as unanimeus a manner as possible, their wishes as to
whether the Bill should be proceeded with or not. He thought
that, considering the importance of the questiOn, there could
be no objection to relieve the directors of a portion of the
responsibilities by throwing the onus on the shoulders of the
shareholders.

Mr. O'CONNELL was grieved to eonfess that the Right
Bon. Baronet had made out a complete ease for this House.
and woulddead to no end of com.
What was the effect of these resolutions? They raised a numer-
ous array of other questions,plicated He did not know a worse tribunal to dis-

cuss a question of this nature-thana House of Commons.
They diminished a number of railway schemes, hut then
the number of Bills was increased. They should have
something like a railway at home. They ought to have a rail-
way judge, and to him should be committed the care of these
matters. Let it not be considered that the appointment of
such a tribunal would be extraordinary. 'They had separate
judges in different departments of law. There were ecclesi-
astical judges, judges in the civil courts—and there were even
registration judges—then why not a railway judge and a rail-
way court? The Hon. Solicitor-General had told the House
distinctly that the power of dissolution was compulsory. Now
how was it to be made compulsory? An Act of Parliament
could not be considered compulsory in questions of this kind,
because the utmost they could do would be to levy a tine, and
it would be difficult to enforce those fines. They ought, then,
to have a railway court and a railway judge. Take from the
bar one of those gentlemen who by their attainments and
their experience are entitled to the confidence of the public,
and make him a railway judge. It might be said that the ne-
cessity for such a judge might not exist for more than
two or three years. Well, then, the expense of the experi-
ment would be diminished. The confidence which would

result from the present state of the administration of railway
affairs would be, that one would apply to -one court, and
another go to another tribunal, so that the litigation on these
matters would be greatly extended and greatly amplified. He
would submit to the consideration of the Government whether
these difficulties would not be obviated if such a court as he
had suggested was appointed. The thing itself was a novelty.
Those railways destroyed the whole common law with respect
to public ways. The public ways were understood to be the
property of the public, but since the railways came into opera-
tion there was no such thing as the public claim being recog-
nised. He therefore suggested the propriety of having these
matters investigated by a railway judge.
After a few words from Mr. PACKE,
Mr. MILNER GIBSON wished to ask a question of the
Hon. Solicitor-General. He wanted to know whether, if a
_ _

shareholder who had purchased scrip in the market should
attend a meeting, and sign a petition, his position would be
altered, so as to lender him liable to come under the same pro-
visions as those to which the original allottee was liable?
The answer of th.s Solicitor-General did not reach the
Gallery.
Mr. BARKER wished to know whether the scrip-
holders who signed the requisition that a project should be
carried through did not place themselves in the position of ori-
ginal shareholders?
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the point was the
subject of his most anxious consideration; and he could not

press the excess of
answer it at present.
this matter, but he (Lori),l,7lrgtoe
fAbluenradbe:lronfoar
Lord G. BEN TlNCKbustabide
was
st
ghreeadtliyd
rneoitedeedsirteo
stto:edis the
measures tending_ to re
people drunk
t werehe
tigiutiosrnioirsloelaurrntledatoni fordan: ih.po:ancfd expressedba'is'
courage those rauallialwtiaoyn.spencuilsatHioonns. wF•hriiechnd
Bentinek) could not concu; in that approbation of their con-
her Majesty's Government in
duet. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer: had drawn thatinn between the
anti the people sober; he (Lord G, BentinnekP
ask whether her Majesty's Gavernment had not had 1-areat
share in making the people drunk on railway speculation i'• u
to the year 1844 the excess of railway sPeeulation was checked
by the necessity that exireed of making a deposit of 10 per cent.
on the shares.- Th3t was a wholesome reetrieti,er on wild speculation, and had the rff'ct of preventing
schemes. In the year 1844 her Majesty's (-e
:
everranent redo bb
ce'd
the deposit from it) per cent. per share to 5 per cent;,
and that reduction tended very much to encourage wild spect- i
lations in railway matters. But. this was not all. Whilst the
money market was easy in tire year 1845, those speeulatiens '
on railways rose to a still greater height. i
• L w a, an established
rule at a Board, at the head of which sat
.a nobleman of power,
fill understanding; and a perfect man of business—he
meant
Lord Dalhousie, the Chairmancf the Board of Trade—to dia_
courage the number of campetine- lines already in the market.
The Government did not • endeavour to back
the Board of
Trade, but ox the contrary. The Right lion. Gentleman at
the head of the Government stated in that House, that
it could not be endured that large towns should not
have the shortest and most direct railway communication.
What was this but an encouragement to this sort of speculation,
and an inducement to set our lines iihr oppositien to the old exist-
ing lines of railway ? • It was ind t at way that a.great parti of
the railway Speculation origlinate . The Right Hon. Gentle_
not content with increasing these railway scherries in
man was
but he also stated that it was not to be endui-ed
this manner,
Manchester, Liverpool, and
that such towns as Birmingham
twelve miles round, should have to send ten or t When the
lion. Gentleman encouraged these schemes in this way, no
person could be surprised that the public entered into these '

I speculations, but not only did he encourage them in this way,
the Right' Hon. Gentleman consented to be the hero of the
silver trowel ank the mahogany wheelbarrew.— (Loud laugh-
ter.) So much was the support of these speculations attributed
to the Hon. Gentleman, that in the town of Burton, in the
neighbourhood of Tatnworth, there were no less than eleven
competing railway schemes got up by enterprising specula-
tors.—( Laughter:)
Mr. CARDWELL said that he would be excused for not
feeling with the Noble Lord in the allusions which he had just
made, but as one observation he bad made partook very largely
of matter of fact, he (Mr. Cardwell) would take the liberty of
stating his opinions with regard to the important statement
with e hich the Noble Lord had commenced his speech. The
Noble Lord said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
spoken of the people drunk and the people sober, and that if
the people were drunk, her Majesty's Government had
made 'hem drunk, by the alteration which had taken
,place in
the rate per cent. with regard to the deposits. If the Govern-
meet made the people drunk, and caused their speculations in
these railways by that circumstance, he would add that it was
in the,year 1844 that trade was not in a good condition, and
I that the money market was not flourishing. In the year 1844
also matters began to mend, and railway speculations began to
increase. If her Majesty's Government caused this increase,
it we, because they improved the state of trade, and rendered
more easy the state of the money market, and that improved
state was the eause of the evil complained of. The statement
was not his (Mr. Cardwell's) but the Noble Lord's, who drew
his own deductions from his statement, and he (Mr. Card-
well) now defied the Noble L 'rd to deny the correctness of his
inference. He did not think that the Noble Lord would
deny that in September and October last the railway
mania or intoxication was at its height, and the rule then in
force was, that previous to the presenting of any petition for a
railway, the sum of one-tenth per cent. on the money to be
subscribed should be deposited in the Court of Chancery. If
the intoxication continued at its height, with the
necessary.
deposit of 10 per cent., how could the absence of 10 per cent.
have caused it, and therefore how could the Government have
given rise to this speculation ?
Mr. HODGSON did not agree with the opinion of the Hon.
Gentleman who had just spoken. During the period of de-
pression which preceded the year 1844 it was difficult to obtain
m mey to promote these railways, and the deposit of 10 per
cent. was enforced ; but in the year 1844, when trade was good
and money became plentiful—at the very period when it would
be necessary to continue the restriction—Mr. Gladstone re-
duced the deposit to 5 per cent. When, however, during the
summer, speculation rose to a great height again, the 10 per
cent. was forced to be re-introduced.
Mr. T. S. DUNCONIBE said that he thought that Govern-
ment was not most to blame with reference to this question.
He did not think the Government responsible for the specula-
tion in August last, and before he sat down he should be able
to prove that the mania was produced by persons not connected
'with her Majesty's Government; but he wished he could say
that, they were equally unconnected with the Houses of Par-
liament.—( Laughter.) All the blame should attach itself to
Parliament for not coming forward sooner during the present
session to tell the nation what was to be done. At Christmas
last all the world was asking what would Parliament do with
the Bills that were far their consideration ? They had now
been sitting three months, and were floundering as to what
they should be about. He had just produced a plan for ascer-
taining the opinions of the present scripholders of companies.
The Right lien. Baronet, in his statement that evening .said,
that circumstances had changed since the introduction of theso
projects, but the Right Hon. Baronet must know very little
' on the subject if he supposed that the parties now holding scrip
were the original parties who embarked in November last.
He knew it was a fact—and it did look suspicious—that many
of the 'Original parties were members of the Stock Ex.
change ; and he felt that the House was not
going far enough. The Right Hon. Baronet read a letter to
the House, which he stated had shocked him terribly. ,An
Hon. Member had remarked that it showed the innocence of
the- Right Hon. Baronet in being shocked at that letter. The
document was in reference to the practice of rigging the mar-
ket, and that. system was known to every man, woman, and
child last Christmas. If the Government was so shocked by
that letter, what were they about to do? Were they going to
semi them to the Committees up stairs? Were Hon. Members
to wade through all this filth and dirt described by the Right
Hon. Beronet? He (Mr. Duncombe) should propose some
resolution to the 'House, which' would push this ques-
tion.; to . the •tbottom. .s4t would decide 'what requi-
sites theese companies must have, and the. &mei, fide
sincerity orihese enterprises. No person could object to the
resolutions he was about to propose if their project was bond
fide—if it was-for the public good, and not for speculative pur-
poses. He should propose a preliminary inquiry on the part
of the Committee to which it might be sent, according to this
resolution. That Committee, before going into the merits of
the Bill, should institute an inquiry as to how, and by whom,
the enterprise had been got up. No company that was a real
and well got up project could object to it, while all bubble
schemes would dissolve into air. He had been told that even-
ing that the companies did not care one straw for the resolutions
proposed to the House, and that the only resolutions they were
afraid of were the resolutions he was about to propose.
What he should propose was, that it be an instruction to the
Committees on each Private Bill, before proceeding to the
merits of such Bill, to have produced before them a copy of the
registration and the names of the promoters, as registered.
Under the regulation as it formerly stood, any man might
register a company by himself for a small sum, and that was
actually done in October last. The House would find that
one-half of these things were registered by some surveyor or
solicitor. He should also wish that inquiries were made as to
the directors, solicitors, &c., for no gentleman could-object to
have his name brought before the Committee. He should
also propose the amount of capital, the number of shares,
the names and residences and subscriptions of the original
allottees. They should also know the amount of shares re-
tained by provisional committee men—(Hear, hear)—and no
person could, as an honest man, object to that. He held in his
hand a provisional committee advertisement of November last.
An advertisement of such a length ought to command all the
influence of the whole country—every sort of name should be
there—Honourables, Right Honourable,. It was an advertise-
ment of the Direct Manchester, and Northern Railway. He
had been looking for the Bill amongst the Committees, but
could not find it. There were no less than 172 provisional com-
mittee-men on it, and he should like to see how many shares
they had received, and how many they had paid upon. It would
be very unsatisfactory to know that out of the 172 gentlemen
not 200 shares had been taken in all. There were F.R.S.,
law, physic, and divinity, held nut as decoys to the public. He
was curious to know how much had been paid on shares, and
still more curious to know what had been received by Hon.
Members to allow their names to be inserted as provisional
committee-men. He had received several, and he held the
prospectus of one in his hand. A letter accompanied it, pro-
mising to bear him harmless from all liabilities. He would
ask the Solicitor-General whether that was a good guarantee?
-(Laughter.) The public considered, when they saw these
provisional committe-men published to the world, that
they participated in the expense and the project.
Us held in hand another list, in which he found the names of
102 clergymen. What would be the' consequence if the pa-
rishioners of those gentlemen should see their names on 'that
provisional committee? There were Deacons, Arch-
Deacons, Right Reverends, Reverends, and Vicars giVing.
their spiritual sanction to the project. Loud laughter.)
Under 'such circumstances bow could the peblic
and their parishioners be blamed for joining the project?
It was right that they should know the number of the shares
retained by the provisional committees, and the amount 'paid
up on them. Also the number of shares now held. That was
one object which-he sought to obtain. When the shareholders
now sought for information respecting the funds of the Com-
pany, or the mode of application, it was almost imposSible
to obtain it ; but, by the resolutiOns he wai
about to submit, they would be obliged to furnish to the Com-
mittees who sat on their Bills all these important particulars.
The resolution he proposed on this point he was persuaded
would operate in a most beneficial manner. The locking up of
fifteen milliona of capital, with no guarantee whatever that
the schemes proposed were not bubble speculations, was a most
improper state of things. And what was the process by
which these railway companies sought to get up the amouttt
of deposit necessary for compliance with the standing
orders? One or two other directors made application to some
banker for assistance, and if he was satisfied that the liabilities
if the company did not exceed the deposits paid, then he ad-
vanced the balance to complete the sum requisite for the stand-
ing orders, and the amount was placed in the hands of the Ac-
countant-General. If the Bill was rejected, the sum so ad-
vanced was immediately paid back to the party who advanced
it ; if the Bill was carried, the same was done; while the
shareholder, who had been led to believe that a sufficient
deposit had been paid up to meet the standing orders, found
out the mistake by the calls that were immediately made to
make up the deficiency. The greatest and merest bubble
might go before Parliament under this mode of raising the 10
per cent. deposits, in order to comply with the
standing orders of the House of Lords. Another
resolution he meant to propose called upon the projectors of
those companies who went before Committees of that House
to give an explanation, not only of the amount of deposit paid
up, but also of the source from whence they intended to raise
the 5 per cent. additional to meet the House of Lords. He
hoped these resolutions, which he would hereafter submit,
would meet the support of the Heine, and that they would be
acceded to, in addition to those proposed by her Majesty's
Government. If they were passed it would save a great amount
of trouble, and do much to relieve the evils that at present
existed.—(Hear, hear.) They would not do right unless
they probed to the bottom all these expenses, and it was a
course of proceeding to which he thought no honest man
could object.— (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member concluded
by reading the following resolutions :
‘. That it be an instruction to the Committee on every
beforei losteß ilr,originated in this House, relating to any railway,
proceeding
with the merits of such Bill, to require to
be produced before them, and verified by the promoters.
" 1. A copy of the original return made for the purposes of
provisional registration with the names of the promoters as
then registered.
‘, 2. The names, residences, and descriptions of the present
and past provisional directors, treasurers, solicitors, secretary,
and other officer, if any.
" 3. The present and proposed amount of the capital of the
company.
" 4. The number of shares, and the amount of each share.
" 5. The number of shares actually allotted, with the names,
residences, and descriptions of the original allottees, and the
number of shares allotted to each.
" 6. The amount of subscriptions paid up by such original
allot tees.
" 7. The amount of shares retained by or for the provisional
committee.
"8. The amount of subscriptions actually paid up by such
provisional committee upon the shares originally allotted to
them.
"9. The original subscribers' agreement, signed by the
allottees.
" 10, A statement of the amount of money in hand, toge-
ther with an abstract of all receipts and expenditure up to the
presentation of the petition for the Bill.
" 11. A statement of the source whence the Parliamentary
deposit was paid, or whether a declaration was made of a surplus
revenue instead of a deposit.
' " And that the Committee report specially on each of :the
foregoing particulars."
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES said that he had remarked
on •a former occasion that many of the railway companies
proposed would not admit of examination. Although the in-
quiries sought by the Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Dun-
combe) might be very amusing, and the mysteries of Capel-
court might serve the " Mysteries of Paris," still he did not
think they were necessary for any practical purpose.—( Hear,
,bear.) The Hon. Gentleman had omitted the interest of the
public in the matter. They had got before thorn a greater
amount of railway business than they would ever have again,
and he should regret their carrying any resolutions that would
deprive the measure sbefore the House being as fully and largely
considered as possible. If, submitted to the probing and free
investigation of the Houie, be was persuaded that the best lines
would be carried into effect.' He did trust no resolution of the
House would be agreed to that would prevent, the present
schemes from being investigated before Committees of the House.
Mr. DISRA ELI said he could not but believe the discus-
sion in which they were engaged was one of considerable im-
'portance. He thought the resolutions of the Hon. Member
for Finsbury contained a great deal of good sense, and while
he considered so, he was not opposed to the resolutions pro-
posed by her Majesty's Government. Still, he could not but
think they should have been proposed at an earlier period.
Why at so late a time offer such considerations, whether from
the Oppoaition or the Government ?—( Hear, hear.) All ac-
knowledge the mischief done; and all are now ready to propose ,
a remedy.—( Hear, hear.) One thing was certain, all parties,

however unequal to the occasion, admited that something was
required; and he could not conceive that Government, however
anxious to free industry, or facilitate the application- of capital.
had acted as well as a neighbouring country, who had not the
character either in the amount of its capital, or the character:
of its labour, that this country had. He might name France,
for instance, where complaints had been made of the great
dela- which had taken place in the granting of railway projects,
though he believed no complaint was now made. And while
no complaint was made of the tardieess of France, there
was great complaint respecting the swiftness of interference in
England. In France, be admitted, they were benefited
in this respect by the Government, but in England they were
not so benefited.—(Hear, hear.) The Government were now
seeking to interfere'with capital and labour. In fact, to carry
out the principle of protection; while on other questions they
professed themselves against all such inteference with the ap-
plication of capital or the employment of labour. —( Hear,
hear.) Every Member in that House, unless he is a:bolder of
railway shares, feels the necessity of protection here; Her
elsjestees Government on this question, however, seemed to-
have no settled opinion. In two years, they had twice changed
the qualification on Railway Bills, showing that they enter-
tained no definite opinion as to the course which should be
taken. He quite agreed with the Hon. Member for Finsbury
in the expression of opinion which he had made, and which was
generally entertained in the country, that the deposit cf 51,
per cent., or double that amount, in compliance with the
standing orders, was equally inefficacious. How little had the
Government done to meet this state of things, having com-
menced in wavering and uncertainty, and having twice changed
the qualification. The qualification made eighteen months
ago was changed to what was considered one snore stringent,
and now they sought to revert back to the former. This proved
that the Government was totally inefficient, and was c hargable
with the loss and ruin which had occurred.—( Hear, hear. )
His Noble Friend (Lord G. Bentinek) had referred to the
circumstances of the Right Hon. Baronet raising the first sod
of the Trent Valley Railway. That took place only in last
October, at the very time that the railway mania was at its
height.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") What Minister
whichgreat Fhiins aHn Finance
his
.IeFI irniiesntedr
twhea sstehcerepta. rr tyo
fw
thhoe di d
did so ? The Chief Minister of the Crown himself—a
dtehsec
rti ibme
de
as the height of the railway mania.y In doingTreasuryso at
so, that the
Right Hon. Baronet, in investing
himself with the railway
paraphernalia, and giving effect to
made his appearance, gave an impetus to speculation could deny. He (Mr. Disraeli) had it in his on not one
evidence of the effect of that performance, as he powerad pa
P oersteine
his possession Which, as he had not intended to allude to the
subject that night, he had not brought. with him. The
Honourable Member for Finsbury may have seen the
same results of the Trent Valley performance. He
(Mr. Disraeli) had in his possession railway pro-
spectuses containing extracts from the speech of the
Prime Minisier delivered on that occasion.—( Hear, hear. )
At the height of the mania they had thus the First Minister of
the Crown giving an impetus—an unnatural impetus to the rail-
way speculations.—( Hear, hear.) He remembered words
spoken by the Right Hon. Baronet—he would not quote Han-
sard, for that was not admissible now, but his memory would
serve him—in which he said, that the people of.Manehestee or
Liverpool would not submit to be carried round ten or twe.l4e
miles about by existing lines, but that they would have direct
ones. This was in March, 1845, and in October, 1845, they
found the Right Hon. Baronet raising the first sod of the Trent.
Valley Railway.—( Hear, hear.) lie could not acquit the
Right Hon. Baronet of fostering and encouraging the railway
mania; neitherthe House nor the country could do so.—(Hear,
hear.) They (the proteetionists) were never allowed to refer
to the prosperity of the country as arising from good harvests;
the Ministers took credit to themselves far the fact. WhO so
ready as the First Lord of the Treasury or the Secretary for the
Home Department to take credit for the diminution of distress
and national adversity? But while he (Mr. Disraeli) was ready
to give the Government credit for all they had done, they did
at the same time suppose that the harvests had' something to
do with that prosperity ; -and that when money was plentiful
and the country flourishing it was not necessary to refer it all to a Ministry. The present appears to be the catastrophe of a
great bubble.—( Great cheers.) Although they had greater
experience-than any country in Europe; although their moral
tone
,would stand a favourable comparison with any other na-
tion, it was their degrading fate periodically to manifest an
inordinate desire for wealth, flying with that object into any
mad speculation, however much it might produce national, in-
jury, entail private ruin, and lead to public disgrace.—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear.") It was the duty of the Government
to guard the tone of the public mind, and to watch and
direct the public fortunes.—(Hear, hear.) But the system
which had hitherto gained such favour, that of leaving
everything to take care of itself, to follow its own
course, whatever might be the effect on the condition of the
people or the interests of the country—this system was the
fashionable system of political economy, which, however
lauded, in his opinion led only to ruin and degradation.—(Hear,
hear.) However, after what had been said on other questions
in reference to this principle, he asked them how they could,
in agreement with it, come forward and ask for that interfer-
ence with the investment and application of capital and labour
which the adoption of the resolutions implied? Why depart
from that course which had been so much lauded in re'erence
to other questions? So long as the people were employed—so
long as they were employed by these railways—by the Trent
Valley railway and others of its class—so long as the people
were so employed, the Ministry expected that they would sym-
pathise with the philanthropic Government.—( Cheers.) But
now the thing was found out ! The senators were discovered
to be stags—(Laughter and cheers)—and the people were
looking up the losses they had sacrificed at the shrine of
philosophy. They were beginning to find out that
it was all humbug.—( Laughter.) They were now
discovering that after all they must fall back on the old system.
—( Cheers.) elonourable Members had often charged the
party with which he was connected with unnecessarily delay-
ing the business of the country.—(Cheers.) Honourable
Members then seemed to forget the saying of one of the
greatest men of modern times—the saying of Frederick the
Great, " That he who gained time, gained everything." They
had opposed the measures of the Government, because they did
not consider that they were advantageous to the country.
They had opposed the Right Hon. Baronet's measures—he
who cut the first sod of the Trent Valley Railway.—(Cheers
and laughter.) They opposed a minister who knew that he
had a great opportunity of doing his country good, and who
neglected it. But now they had to discuss this question in
sober sadness—(Hear)—and when they calculated what the
resources of the country were, when they contemplated its in-
creasing population. and the inadequate means of employment
provided for them, the Govertiment ought to be forced to look
to its essential resources; to 'legislate on comprehensive and
practical principles, instead of visionary theories, which had in
too many instances assimilated to the practice of the com-
panies under their consideration.
Mr. WARD explained.
Mr. BRIGHT wished to trouble the Home with one ortwo.
observations, after the retnarks which has been made by the
Hon. Member for Shrewsbury. He had, in the whole of his
speech, endeaeenred to show that the GovernMent were incon-
sistent in bringing in these. resolutions, and in their general
policy with' regard to this subject. But he ( Mr. Bright) san-
sidered that the arguments of the Hon. Member were altoge-
ther founded upon error. If he understood the resolutions
aright, they were not proposed for the purpose of interferirg
with vested capital, but to' enable parties to withdraw from
'proceedings which would be unprofitable to themselves and
disastrous to the country.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
and the Hon.' Member who had last spoken had, he thought,
adopted an ingenious course—more particularly ingenious as
they were each recognised as the head of a great and patriotic
party.—(Cheers.) They used to be loud in praises of the
Ministry, and it was only litely that they had withdrawn their
support. It was only' since Ministers had brought in their
-measure for the abolition of the corn-laws that they had found
out that they were unworthy of confidence.—(Cries of
" Hear, hear.") Now, he believed that the real cause of
the speculation in railways was that they had had
many years of depression, which bad been followed by years of
prosperity, and they were adopting the old adage of making
hay -while the sun shone. They wished to make in one year
the'profits that ought to have extended over three. He had
every confidence that this measure would produce a steadiness
in the money market to which they bad for some time been un •
accustomed. He believed that these fluctuations were bad, and
the Government had therefore reason to endeavour to put an
end to them. If he (Mr. Bright) recollected aright, when he
first came to that 'House, 'the Noble Lord, the Member for
Lynn, only sat in his seat for the purpose of observing the
progress of a Bill introduced to defend certain parties who
were engaged in a mad speculation, dangerous in the extreme,
and contrary to the letter of the law.—(Cheers, and a laugh.)
He considered, therefore, that the Noble Lord was not the
man to set himself up as an authority on any matter connected
with speculation er gambling.
The SPEAKER then read the resolutions proposed by Sir
R. Peel, which were agreed to.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE then moved the resolutions which
will be found in his speech.
On the 10th resolution being read,
Sir G. CLERK said he did not see how the amount of the
liabilities of companies could be ascertained.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said he would be sorry to admit any
unjust details in any statement of the affairs of a company; all
he required was that there should be laid before the Committee
an estimate, stating the amount of money in hand, and the
liabilities of the company, which every company ought to be
aware of. Suppose the case of a shareholder; before he will enter
into an engagement, he will naturally say to the committee
of management, what money have you in band ? Why, we
•have so much, will be the answer. Well, then, his next
ques-
tion would be, what are the liabilities of the company ?
Surely the committee should be able to give some estimate of
their amount, and be able to say what persons were those who
had claims upon them.
Mr. HODGSON said he should vote against the resolution,
as he was quite positive that the company would be utterly un-
able to give anything like an accurate estimate, and an inac-
curate might lead to more evils than none at all.
Mr. HUDSON said that, from his experience, he could
state that it would be impossible for any company to give an
estimate of their liabilities ; nor did he think such an estimate
would tend to any useful purpose. How could it be.possitee
to tell the amount of a solicitor's or engineer's bill ? The only
thing which could be given would be the amount of money
paid and actually received.--( Hear.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE said he would adopt the suggestion of
the lion. Member, and alter the resolution to a statement of
the money in hand, and a statement of the liabilities incurred.
Mr. W. R. COLLETT observed that expenses were two-
fold those incurred, and those prospective; and an adjourn-
ment of the case might increase the latter most materially. ,
Colonel SIBTHORP said he would enter his pretest against
the Government doing that at the eleventh hour which they
should have done at the first.
After a few words from Sir G. CLERK,
Mr. W. R. COLLETT said that he considered the resolu-
tion was most inquisitorial ; and after the many sufferings
which provisional committee-men had already experienced, he
thought it somewhat unjust.—( Hear, hear.) He did not.
know what the public could have to do with either the
names or the amount subscribed by the provisional
committee-men, and as many of them had come forwarded, in
the hope of benefiting not themselves, but the towns, cities,
villages or counties with which they were connected, it was too
bad to bold them up now to the world as parties unworthy of
the confidence of their fellow men. The lion. Member :for
Finsbury, he had no doubt whatever, was actuated by none
-other but honest motives, but he put it to the Hon. Gentleman
whether, after th severe suffering: provisional committee-men
had eneountererl, it was fair to publish their names in the man-
ner t roposed by this resolution.—( Hear, hear. )
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER apprehended
that the Hon. Member for Finsbury did not require rhe names,
but only the amounts subscribed collectively by the provisional
cow mittee.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said that was all he wanted.
The resolution was then agreed to, as was also No. 9.
On No. 10 being proposed.
Mr. WARBURTON was understood to object to the words
"and of the liabilities" on the ground that it was not right to
ask old established companies to disclose their liabilities.
After a short discussion the objectionable words were struck
out, and the resolution, as amended, agreed to.
On No. 10 being proposed,
•
Mr. WARBURTON said this resolution in its present form
would not apply to the Bills promoted by established companies,
that they
for they paid no deposits at all, but merely certified
had • t funds in hand to enable them to carry out the
su scien
proposed undertaking.
Mr. HUDSON said the Hon. Gentleman was quite right.
were seeking for powers to construct works in
Many companies
accordance with the provisions of their existing Act of Parlia.;'

merit, defraying the expense of them uut of their surplu
capital.
Mr. RICARDO remarked that there were many companies
not in_so fortunate a position as to have surplus capital, and in
such a cast. as that it would ho desirable to know how the funds
were raised.
Sir R. PEEL said the resolution simply called for the source
whence the deposits were obtained, and he thought the objections
urgeditzainst it would be removed by omitting the restrictive
worTs,narnef:r, " wheth,r out of the depdsits or by loans."
Mr. BROTHER TON thought the existing companies -had
an undue advantage • oner the new companies ; for while the
latter. where required to deposit ten per cent., the former only
furnished a 'certificate signed by the secretary, to the effect
that they had sufficient funds to carry"out the project.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said be had no objection to omit the
words suggeited by the Right Hon. Baronet. - •
The resolution was agreed to as amended.
-Mr. W. COLLETT-, haring in a few obs,ervationt,- which
were indistinctly heard in the reporters' gallery, condemned the
inqubiitorial character of the course proposed by the Govern-
ment,

The-twelfth resolution was put and agreed to.
NOTICES OF MOTION —FEES OF COURTS OF
LAW.
Mr. THORNLEY gave notice that he should, on Thurs-
day, the 7th May, move for copies of the fees paid in the courts
of law and equity.
POLISH INSURREC I lON.
Mr. C. BULLER had heard that the Austrian Government
had issued a proclamation offering a reward to the peasants
if they would bring in, dead or alive, the several Polish gentle-
men who had become obnoxious to the Government. He
wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet if it was true that the
Austrian Government had addressed any note to the British,
or any other European Court, denying this statement ; and if
there had been any such note FO a !dressed, whether therewould
be any objec ion to lay the same upon the table of the House?
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that the Austrian Government
had made no intimation whatever upon the subject to the
British Court. He was not aware that the Austrian Govern-
ment had made any communication to any other European
Court—certainly not to this. He had seen a statement which
was not made, containing a peremptory contradiction of the
statement.

REDUCTION OF THE DUTY ON TEA.
Mr. AIILN ER GIBSON presented a petition, signed by a
great number of the inhabitants of Manchester, praying for a
reduction of the duty on tea.
Lord SANDON presented a petition, numerously signed,
from Liverpool, to the same effect. The Noble Lord then
nospFhhonritorousic,
tedeLdoerdd to move
the T
Treasury
s cuorpyi e
as
nodf theth e
President memorials
o f
the receivedß abrydt the
Trade, r
c.r
aei,s pea
dse tninpgr
oaproedr desirabletui
proporton
ion
withn
other
the duty
rd
auattrtyttinoatuf
of.
be called to the enormous duty at present payable
tea. The increase in the consumption of.that article had
The increase had only been I -96 00 1 of the
H e
consumption. thought
ro us
e
ss , 0 bs. during the last five
years. That article was
than had been
paid
for the presenta subject to a 'higher duty
the tea trade was in the hanctssto;.htiLty or forty years. When
ad vdorem duty of 100 per cent. was imposed
East
ilndiaos
ed C o mhp thatan
monopoly was .dope . away, a fixed duty Zs applied,ve which
ranged from 150 to 200 per cent. If the trade was at present
in the hands of the East India Company, the duty, instead
of being 2s. 24d., would not be more than 10d. or Is. The
imposition of that high 'duty prevented the people of this
country from enjoying an article which all the friends of tem-
perance and sobriety would wish to see extensively used. The
trade with China was carried on almost exclusively by barter.
This country must therefore take the goods of China in return
for manufactures exported to that country. It ' was
impossible, with the present amount' of duty, to increase
the exports of this country to any great extent.
It was impossible to increase the consumption of tea by' any
other course than by a reduction of the duty. The duty at
present formed two-thirds of the whole price paid by the con-
sumer. Iu the United States there was no duty.. In Holland
the duty ranged from lid. to 4d. Even in oureolonies the
duty was moderate. In Australia the duty was ten per cent.,
in Newfoundland it was Is. 3d. per pound, and in Guernsey it
was nothing. In Australia the price tome consumer wasirom
Is. 3d. to Is. 6d. per_ pound, but the best result for him to
mention was the amount consumed. In Australia the amount
was 12 lbs. per head, while in England it was only 1 1-3 lbs.
'perlead. In Newfoundland it. was 4 lbs. per head, and in
Guernsey it was about the same. He thought they might
with safety try an experiment in a reduction of the duty on
tea. It must be recollected that. any increase in the consump-
tion of tea would cause a large increase the consumption of
sugar. For every pound of tea consumed five pounds of
sugar were usd. He trusted, therefore, that this subject
would be duly'considered by the Government ; and he con-
cluded by moving for copies of all memorials addressed to the
First Lord of the Treasury and the Presiden` of the Board of
Trade,. praying for a reduction in the duty on tea.
subj Mr. MOFFATT rose to second the motion. • This was a
ect of vast importance as affecting our commerce with the
East. The great complaint of the Chinese was that so much
of their specie was sent to this country. The exports from
Great Britain to China in 1844 amounted to 8,871,0004 while
the imports were only 4,379,0004 We also imported 3,400,0001.
in specie from China in that time. The Hon. Gentleman
went into a variety of details, for the purpose of showing that
by the reduction made in coffee and sugar the revenue in-
creased, while the public derived the advantage of having those
commodities at a considerably reduced price. He saw no rea-
son, therefore, why tea should not be dealt with in a similar
manner, as he felt quite assured that an immensely
increased consumption must be the result, while, at the same
time, the revenue would sustain no diminution.—( Hear. )
All our large exports of woollen goods:to China -brought no
benefit to the trade of that country ; consequently the importa-
tion of that article was now very much reduced. We charged
from one hundred to three hundred per cent. on ihe importa-
tions from China, and our exportations to that country were
only charged at three per cent. The rates of duty on French
goods were reduced, and why were not the duties on the im-
portations from China, reduced in equal ratio ? This he con-
sidered was the policy which ought to be adopted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, in
answer. to the lion. Member, he was willing, on the part
of the----Government, to say that -the-- House -should
have every information laid before it in regard of the trade
with China. The Hon. Member had said, that the duties on
French goods had been reduced, and that, consequently, the
duties on' our importations from China should also be reduced.
It was true, that all our importation of tea came from China, as
a matter of necessity, but that did not Make out a case for re-
ducing the duty npon that article of consumption.
But he did think it was rather unfortunate for the view of the
Hon. Member, that, some short time-ago, he (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) had received a deputation, who declared,
that if the duty on the exports from China Were not reduced,
they could not carry on their trade. He had
had many opportunities during the present session
of discussing many of the points in reference to this
subject, and therefore :he should say that he hoped the
matter would tie more fully discussed; and wbenhe.cameto lay
upon the table a memorial he had received upon the subject, he
believed it would be better understood.
Mr. J. A. SMITH should trouble the House with a few
observations upon this subject, which heloOkej upon as one of
the most important that could be brought. under its consi-
deration. He did not consider that the statement made
by • the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, was at alt
inconsistent with that of his Llononrible Friend near
him. He assured Hon. Members that there need be, and was,
no limit to our trade with China, but unless some change took
place the trade could not increase but decrease. He had no
wish. to detain the House after the long and tedious debate,
and he would conclude by recommending a total change of
commercial policy in the trade with China.
Mr. ENTWISLE regretted that an article so generally
consumed in England should be so much restricted by heavy
duties which were so contrived that the heaviest duty fell on
the lowest priced teas. There could be no limit to the
advantage that could be derived by the establishment of a trade
with China, Fo as to give them a larger proportion of our manu-
factured goods in exchange for their produce. There ought
to be some better system of reciprocity than that which existed
at present, and therefore he supported the motion.
Mr. WYSE said that the diminution of the duty on coffee
had led to a considerable increase in consumption, and the same
result, no doubt, would follow it the duty on tea was reduced.
The motion was then agreed to.
PROTECTION AND RELIEF OF EJECTED
TENANTS IN IRELAND.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD obtained leave to bring in a Bill for
the protection and relief of ejected tenants in Ireland.
COAL WHIPPERS (LONDON) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
FRIENDLY SOCIETIES (SALARIES AND EX-
PENSES) BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee. •
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.
'From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.

_ •
' -
THURSDAY, APRIL 2S.
The following Railway Bill was withdrawn:—
Great Southern and Western Extension (Carlow to Kilkenny).

OApFizIRLA2I7L. WAY BILLS,
SECONDndClyde
Scottish Central and Caledonian Junction.
READINGS
Oldham, lianehester, Liverpool, and Birkenhead Junction.
Junction.
Portbury Pier and Railway.
Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne, and:Manchester (Whaley Bridge
Forth
Hayfisld Branches).
Ipswich and)Bury St. Edmund's (Extension, to Ely, with a Branch
therefrom
London and Birmingham (Weedon and Northampton).
West Cornwall.
Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhamptcn.
Wilts, Somerset, and Weymouth.
South Devon (No. 2 —Amendment and Branches).
Midland (Clay Cross to Newark).

REPORT FROM THE SELMT COMMITTEE ON GROUP (No.
20) OF EAILWAY
MITCHAM AN]) SOUTH-WESTERN BILL.
Mr. Sotheron reported f;•om the Select committee en Group (No.
2)) of Railway Bills, to whom several petitions against the Bills
comprised in the said gre,up were referred, That in the case of the
Mitcham and Seuth-Western Railway Bill they had heard counsel in
support of several of the said petitions, and had also heard counsel in
favour of the Bill, an'.l that they had examined into the allegations
contained in the Preamble of the 11111, but that the same had not
been proved to their satisfaction.

REPORT FROM THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON GROUP (No.
19) OF RAILWAYS.
EXETER, TOPSHA3f, AND EXMOUTH BILL.
Lord Harry Vane reported from the Select Committee on Group
(No. 19) of Railway Bills, to whom several petitions :against the
Bills Oomprised in the said group were referred, That in the case of
the Exeter, Topsham, and Exmouth Railway 'l3lll they had heard
counsel in support of several of the said petitions, and had also heard
counsel in favour of the Bill, and that they had examined into the
allegations contained in the Preamble of the Bill, but the same had
not been proved to their satisfaction.

STANDING ORDERS' COMMITTEES.
HOUSE OF LORDS.
',hips met this day, for the first time sinca ttie Easter
The Ceurmittee, in con-
-- -- oiocion, came to the determination of
all the Railway Bills whteh came before them 00 second
one-. to Monday next. Among:it the Wills so adjourned were
de following : Londonderry and Enniskillen Extension Railway—
Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow, i.nd Dublin ./tailway—Dablin an;,
I'stct lion Railway— Cionmill and Thutles
Junction Railway—Groat :Intithr

the Tspatcb of public basineim
f Lord

Li:at:rick, Ennis, And Kil!aloe .12/tr.--
anti We ern (Ireland)—Cori: Extenqion—
Railway— liillariwy Junction
tion Railway—Larne, Beitast, and Ballymena 1
111:11,1 and Ballymoney.
and llostrevor Railway Dur,_
Veltlaa Janetioa Railway Bill.
The San,lerland Waterworkg \v.-
&re, and aho the Sawicki,. ,

—M n

'ern-toy
Juue-
•li

renpolut.
rnal.;ll, anu

(las 1

the Standlng Or-

. .
MORTALITY OF, THE: l'., t ryriorous.--Tho. total number
-of deaths registered in the metropolis during the week ending
April 18, 1846, is 967 ; of these 30 are. deaths from violence.
The number of deaths (exec-pt from violence) during the
week, amount therefore to 939, showinz an-increase on the
w e bk. preceding-of 107—the -mitnber of deaThs from disease
in the week ending 11th Aprii, having been 72; A great
of the
increase has taken place iu the
reSpiratory organS; in the last weleetti:isieyfroammounted to 318,
irk the week preceding, to 270 only.
' Tli-e Bishop of Carlisle and the Chairmanof theEyxesctiesredhaayd.
interviews with the Chancellor of the Exchequer
Mr. Denison, M.P., interview, ith the Earl of Dal-
haclice
of the Board of Trade.
lionsie yesterday at the °