The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-28 00:00:00

of the free importation of corn is, that in the present circum- his opioion, and every day's experience convinced him, that 'IF- '
stances of this country it will supply a large number of the sate of !'amine in Ireland was a gross delusion; and the Nob
population, who would otherwise find a difficulty in obtaining Lord added, that a greater delusion was Lever, in his opioi If
from the land an adequate supply, especially as their number palmed upon the country by any Government. Tin
is increasing. The effect of the measure will be to lower the Noble Lord proceeded to argue that because th,
prices in this country, and to raise the prices on the Con- fact was that the price of potatoes was 41. a stone, there was
anent of Europe ; and it will therefore equalise the prices no pressure on the peoplo of that country. Now, Sir, I bog
both here and abroad. We shall then obtain the object so to explain in what the real difficulty lies. The price of pota-
desirable ; for the people of England will have a security toes cannot be taken as a criterion of the state of things it
against the uncertain and extravagant rise of prices, and the Ireland. I may observe, in passing, that the price of 4d. Fer
commercial interest will not only have free trade, but they stone is exactly double what it is on ordinary occasion; ; and
will have an opportunity of an interchange of commodities. however trifling this may appear to the House and the Noble
The prices of corn will rise in Earope, and the raising Lord, the difference between 2d. and 4d. is a question of some
of prices is no less an object to the manufacturer MO per cent. to four millions of -persons in Irfland. Then
than an increased price for his own produce. the Noble Lord referred to the small exports from Ireland, and
The Noble Lord, on proceeding to argue with reference to the drew the inference from thence that no destitution existed in
steadiness of prices, produced a table, which illustrates in a that country. I think it rather argues that apprehensions of
more clear manner than any other table I have hitherto seen, famine were entertained. But, Sir, it may he said that this
a fact which the enemies of the sliding scale regard view of this question might be taken by the Noble Lord the
as inherent in our present system of corn-laws. Member for Lynn, independent of the condition of Ireland.
Ile has demonstrat, d very clearly in the table Rut the actual sta eof that country has been confirmed by the
which he has produced that the great fluctuations statements of other Hon. Members, although an Hon. Mem-
of prices on the continent depended mainly on the demand ber of high authority—l mean the Recorder of the City of
from England. He adduced the table of fluctuations which Dublin—has stated that there was gross exaggeration in those
shows that the rise or fall of prices on the continent is in exact statements.
proportion to the demand from England. It would appear from Mr. SIiAW—I said "great exaggeration," not " gross."
that document that the places most affected by these fluctua- Sir JA VIES GRAHAM—With "great" exaggeration.—
ions, are Hamburgh, Amsterd, a' . Id Oct (Laughter.) Now, I hope the House will bear with me whip,

ee, are reamburgh, eemak tam, tanteic, an, .lessa—
in fact from those places from which we are accustomed to
draw most largely. The Noble Lord also declares that the
trade from Bordeaux and from New York is inferior, because
the distance is considerable, and the parties who
held corn were liable to serious interruptions in their trade.
This had a material effect upon the foreign market; for what
had we done ? So far as our present experience goes, we had
been, in fact, preventing the production of those crops of corn
which are necessary for the keeping up of a constant and steady
supply ; and the effect is, that we are teuding to con-
vert these corn-growing countries not only into com-
mercial rivals, but into actual enemies. This cannot
but act in preventing our obtaining those supplies which are
necessary to preserve an equality in the corn-market. In con-
sequence of the uncertainty which prevails among the agricul-
turists abroad, they never know at what rate their corn would
sell in the British market, and the supplies therefore are en-
certain and irregular. On the whole the conclusion is strong
that they can place no reliance whatever on the state of the
British market, and they therefore impose higher rates of duty on
our manufactures in order to realise the advantages which they
ought to reap from their corn trade, and thus despairing of
ever obtaining the advantage to which I allude, they are led
to measures which have the effect of depressing se whole in-
terests of the country. This then is one of the reasons which
indicate the cause of those fluctuations to which the Noble Lord
has alluded, and which have rendered the British markets so
uncertain that the supplies have been irregular, and, apart from
other considerations, offers use one of the greatest reasons why
the corn-laws should be altered. The Noble Lord has said,
and has laid great stress upon ,the point, that there has been
great evenness of erice since the alteration of the law in 18'28.
Why 1 have said repeatedly in this House, that I have always
considered that evenness and steadiness of price neither more
nor less than a nuisance, and so it is considered by the grow-
ers abroad. The Noble Lord considers that this evenness has
been a benefit, best what have been the real effects ? It is well
known, and I appeal to the oldest farmer for &confirmation of the
opinion that during the present year there has been no such
effect created I believe that during the present year the
price of the best wheat in the home market has
varied from 58s. to 725. a quarter, and that this
state of things is a constant stress upon the trade,
and a continued nuisance, and it is on account of this
imperfection in a portion of the sliding-scale that I believe it
ought to be altered. Then the Noble Lord has another ob-
jection which he says is occasioned by the importation
of foreign corn, in foreign instead of British ships.
Why, it is this very uncertainty of the sliding-scale which
prevented the merchants and the foreign growers from knowing
what the condition of the market would be on the arrival of
the cargo, and what the price would be at the
moment of its import which lost to British ships their charter-
age. The Noble Lord had stated that the corn trade should
he rendered as certain as possible, in order that when the
importation does take piece, the British ships should
bring the foreign corn. The circumstances which I
have stated are the very reasons why foreign ships
obtain the cargoes, instead of British ships.—( Hear, hear. )
But, Sir, the Noble Lord then proceeded to state that the
farmers looked with dread and consternation at this measure.
The petition presented by the Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Stockport (Mr. Cobden) clearly shows that all the farmers
do not entertain such a dread. But the Hon. Member for
Huntingdon said that if this protective law were removed a
great deal of land must be thrown out of cultivation, and the Hon.
Gentleman, the Member for Cambridgeshire, said, as I under-
stood, that tine panic in Cambridgeshire is so great that drainage
was suspended, and that agricultural improvement had suddenly
ceased. Now, Sir, I must beg to observe, that to the best et
my knowledge, the panic to which the lion. Member for Cam-
bridge has referred, prevails much more within these walls than
amongst the farmers of this country. My inquiries do not
lead me to believe that either the landlords or the tenants, who
are not [exposed to the dangerous atmosphere of this House.
are affected by the panic to which those Hon. Gentlemen have
referred —( Hear, hear.) Now, I think that some Hon
Gentleman stated in the course of this debate, that
a certain landlord in Sotnersetshire had offered to his tenants
to release them from their engagements, and sixty of those
tenants had refused that offer. Now, Sir, lat once admit that
that refusal on the part of the tenants is no sure criterion that
they are satisfied with the present measure—(Protectionist
cheers)—because the tenants having a large capital em-
barked in the land—( Hear, hear)—cannot suddenly with-
draw that capital without an immense sacrifice. But
having made that admission, I must contend, on the
other hand, that at the present moment we have no conclu-
sive evidence to show that tie farmers generally are dissatis-
fied with this measure. Now, Sir, perhaps as this matter is of
, great importance, and as lam sincerely of opinion that there is
no ground for the alarm entertained by any of the Hon.
Gentlemen on this side of the House, who sit below
the gangway, the House will allow me to state
some facts that have come within my own knowledge
I allude, Sir, to the farmers of East Lothian, in Scotland.
have a letter in my hands from a Noble Friend of mine (Lord
Glenelg). The letter is dated February 21. He says, " 1
have had an opportanity of learning the opinions of the farmers
of East Lothian and Berwickshire to a considerable extent. One
of the factors to a large proprietor in this neighbourhood
tells me that there is not a farm in the country now to be let
but for which there are more and higher offers than have ever
been made, arid that too by men of capital anti skill. I
ked them (he says) how they accounted for that circum-
stance. His answer was that the corn question is now considered
to be settled, and that the prospects held out by Government
of getting their lands drained by a grant from the Treasury, in-
stead of having themselves to advance the money, has created t
general feel ingot-confidence throughout the country. A gentleman
who is a trustee of sonic property in the neighbourhood, has also
informed n e that offers have been made for some of his farms
ten per cent. above the prices for which they at present let.
These are (be continues) facts which ere worth more
than all the arguments adduced in favour of an altera-
tien of the corn• laws, coming as they do from
one of the greatest corn growers in this part of
the country." Now, Sir, allusion has been made to the
county of Gloucestershire. I will inform the House with re-
ference to the prevailing opinion ui,on the subject of the corn
laws, that Mr. Charteris has every chance of being returned as a
Member fur that county upon the principle of an alteration
in the corn-laws. Then, Sir, I will allude to the Isle o f Ely,
in Cambridgeshire. It has been said that if the corn-
, laws are repealed, the land will be thrown out
of cultivation, and the fens will revert to their primitive wild-
, ness. Now, Sir. I hold in my hand a letter from a very large
proprietor of land in that county, dated the first week of March,
'lle letter stated that the writer had received a communication
from his agent at the Isleof Ely,stating that he had lettwo farms
to two intelligent men, a father and son, with ample capital,
at an increased rent of 126/. per annum. The agreement had
been entered into since the introduction of Sir R. Peel's mea-
sure, and he expressed hi- opinion, that facts like these were
worth more than figures, Now, Sir, that relates only to the rents
of land, but what has been its effect on the lee-simple value
of land. On the introduction of the measure now proposed, I
am told that several of the most eminent land- surveyors were
opposed to the altei a ion, but they have since altered their
opinion, and have expressed their surprise at the wonderful
effect the settlement of the corn titiestion has had upon the
value of landed property. There is, for instance, an estate
in Essex, with which I am acquainted—and so is, I believe, a
Noble Lord opposite—which has been offered for sale fur sonic
time past at thirty years' purchase. The rent of the property
was 6301, but for three years no offer was made for the pro-
perty— ( Hear,)—while in the last three weeks, however, an
offer had been made for the property which came up to its
value. This show. d the effect the measure had had on the fee-
simple value of land, and yet it is said that the measure will
have a tendency to throw land out of cultivation. Now, with
respect to this alarm, are Honourable Members aware of the
desire which exists fur inclosing land with a view to its
future cultivation. Last year we gave facilities for the in-
closing of lands, and let me just read the number of applica-
tions which have been received for leave to inclose waste lands.
In the month of September applications to the amount of
3,298 had been received. In October the number of acres
which were sought to be enclosed was 4,500. This
was under protection—extreme protection—and when there
was no expectation in the public mind that the Government
intended to propose any alteration with respect to corn.
( Hear, hear.) But in the month of November, it was well
known to the public that her Majesty's Ministers proposed an
alteration of those laws. The applications in October to these
Commissioners were 4,578; in November, 7,B47.—(Hear,
hear, and loud cheers.) In December they were 7,205 ;
in January, 5,600 ; and in Feeruary, 3.595 —(Loud Opposi-
tion cheers)—but in the first week in March there were
1,500 applications; and within the last fortnight applications
have come in from Yorkshire, each by permission of the Com-
missioners, to inclose a common of inferior land—very inferior
land—to the extent of 14,000 acres.—( Hear, hear.) Another
application has also come in Irons the same county for per-
mission to inclose 2,500 acres—that is to say within the last
fortnight ; two applications have come to the Inclosure
Commissioners to inclose 16,520 acres of common land.—
( Cheers.) Now, Sir, I must be permitted to call the attention of
the House to a Bill now in progress. It is a Bill for reclaim-
ing and inclosing land from the sea—to reclaim certain tracts
of land which form part of the great estuary at Lynn.—
( Cheers and laughter.) This is not a question of growing
lands—it is not a question of inclosing waste land, but rather
the question of following the exampl of the Dutch, and car-
rying out the principle of scooping counties out of the ocean
—( Hear, hear )—a most laudable and praiseworthy under-
taking. But what name is on the bark of the Bill ?
The firs, came i find en the bark of the Bill is that of Lord
Geesge Bete tie k.— ( Loud cheers, anti laughter.) 'I he second
name that of Mr. Bagg, one of the Members for Norfolk
This plan originated in 1846, when the plans of the Govern-
ment were well known to all parties.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord G. BENTINCK—No, no. It was projected in
November.
Sir J. GRAHAM—The capital invested is proposed to be
1,500,000/.:; 200 OWL was proposed to be harrowed; and,
among the subscribers, the first name which I find is " William
George Frederick Cavendish Bentinek,' commonly called
" Lord George Bentinck"—(Roars of laughter)—and among
the directors the first name I find is " William George Frede-
rick Cavendish Bentinck," commonly called " Lord George
Bentinck." 'That measure was contemplated in the last ses-
sion, of Parliament, and inasmuch as it was the intentian of the
Crown to establish its claims to certain rights, there was a
negotiation entered upon between those parties and the Board
of Works, which neeotiation had not, however, been brought
to a conclusion. But in the Bill before the House this year,
there was an admission of the rights ofthe Crown. The admission
is of a very remarkable kied. Is is that in the contemplation
of such an immense outlay one per cent. should be paid to the
Crown ; thus, on the large outlay of 500,0001., as stated in the
Bill, at least 5,000/. will revert to the Crown. Now, Sir, the
House will, perhaps, permit me to venture a question which
has been often put by the Noble Lord to my Right Hon. Friend
cp(arti:astasnheucedgeth):_eheaard(ttotl the Government. If the Noble Lord will allow
me, I will ask what is his estimate of the price of wheat—
his snin tphueevul
Lteventiaounsoh:
,tieltlrh.er)ep Governmentalys it its
rar
omatter
aomtiteeerrass?uor
felbeingfrn not
a matter of chance, the Noble Lord will, perhaps, again allow
me to ask him, what is his estimate of the price of wheat, that
he has been induced to be a party to this undertaking? Now,
Sir, I will refer to the greater and more serious part of the
Noble Lord's statement, and the House will at once anticipate
that I allude to the state of Ireland. I heard last night, with
very great ourprizo, the Eateravnt of the Noble Lord, that in

„egnie.
read some extracts in reference to this subject, which is in
the shape of e idences and which is deserving of attention, for
it really has now became a matter of great importance. The
information which reached me in the month of October last, in
reference to the state of Ireland, was of such a character as
confirmed me of the necessity that existed for the introduction
of this measure, although that was not the only reason I had
for doing so. In the month of November last I received r
letter from the Secretary of the Agricultural Society cf Ire-
land, at my private residence. which I shall now read. I
should premise by stating that the Agricultural. Society of Ire-
land is an institution baaring the same character as the Agri-
cultural Society of England, and numbers amongst its mem-
bers the Duke of Leinster, Lord Downshire, Lord Shannon,
and many others of the most respectable nobility and gentry in
that country. That letter is to this effect. (Here the Right
Hon. Baronet read the letter, the substance of which was that
the writer enclosed extracts from the Dublin morning
capers, containing accounts of the measures which
the Irish Agricultural Society had taken in refer-
ence to the state of the potato crop. ) I received
several letters in answer, stating that the disease was
not spreading, but I subsequently received letters from
most of the 120 associations, assuring me that the disease was
increasing. I may state there is not a county in Ireland. that
is not more or less affected by the disease ; and my office is
filled with specimens of the diseased potato. The council of
the society have directed their labours to obtain information
on the subject, and to transmit the same to the entire society ;
and they are of opinion that enough has transpired to gratify
them in calling on the Government to take immediate steps
in the matter.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, with that letter
came another from the colleague of the Hon. Gentleman,
bearing date 18th October, in which the Hon, Gentleman
stated that he was sorry it would not be in his power to attend
the council of the society, as he apprehended the accounts that
would be received from the different parts of the kingdom
would confirm the failure; and that, therefore, the matter
should be brought at once under the notice of Government. I
will now refer to a representation made in the month of Oc-
'ober last from the secretary of this society, and such was the
urgency of the case that the secretary w: ore to me in the
letter I have just read to the House. I will now shortly state
to the House what is the more recent information that the
Government has received. The Member for Lynn declared
that these statements were the grossest—most palpaple deceits
ever palmed upon the country by any Government. I will
now read a letter which I received from a gentleman in the
county of Waterford, and dated the 19th of March. It is from
the commissary resident there to the commissary in the city
of Dublin. It stated that the price of potatoes
was so high that they were no longer used in
the poor-houses. They have been discontinued and
bread substituted. The price of potatoes is 6d. per stone, and
therefore quite beyond the reach of the poor. A subsequent
letter, dated the 21st of March, stated that the proportion of
potatoes destroyed in Waterford, was one-third or one-half of
the whole crop. In every case where the potatoes had been
pitt-d, they had been found in such a state as to be fit only for
manure. Except in Wexford, where the crop is said to be in
a tolerable state of preservation, there is some reason for think-
ing that the same state of things exists throughout all the dis-
trict which this Gentleman is commissary. I said to the
House, on a former occasion, that we were only in the begin-
ning of this most formidable calamity, and it is now proved
that the seed of the diseased potato is not to he relied en. A
crop of potatoes, landed in January, were expired, and
ever; case the seed was found to be rotten. Even in the pits
of those persons who had sunk them deep, the potatoes were
smoking from decomposition. In a letter from a coast-guard,
residing in the Isle of Man, to his officer, he reports that there
is a universal rot in the potato crop ; in fact they were so bad
that they were shoveling them away, instead of picking by
the hand, according as the crop was dug out. One
person, with a family of six children, stated to him
that his crop had been reduced to one-third. Ireland was di-
vided into .2,COd electoral divisions, and from the reports which
they had received, they found that, taking the average, more
than one-half of the potato crop was totally destroyed. In a
letter which had been addressed from Colonel M'Arthur to the
Commander of the forces, the following passage occurred :
” The difference in the price of the potatoes was one-third
more than it was at a corresponding period." The communi-
cation is from Mr. Redmond, of Carrick-on-Suir ; it is dated
on the Ist of March, and states that the disease in potatoes pre-
vails in the largest extent ; that one person, had purchased
as many as 1,500 barrels of potatoes, and that, with the excep-
tion of a few barrels, they were all found to be in a putrid
state. At a meeting which was to be held on the Bth March
at Fermoy, at which Lord Mountcashel presided, this matter
of the loss of the potatoes was felt to be of the utmost import-
ance ; and resolutions were unanimously passed expressing that
fact. One of those resolutions stated the potatoes were then
selling at 46(1. per stone.
Mr. SHAW—That is a weight and a half.
Sir J. GRA HAM—Yes ; but what is the reason of this
price? The slid. was not for sound potatoes—not for those
which were free from taint, but for those which were in a putrid
state. The consequence was that these were found to be as
dear as oatmeal or Hoar. Then comes a resolution that the
actual state of the potatoes was known to be such that the
people were selling those potatoes for the purchase of oatmeal.
From Lord Mounteashel's personal examination, both of the
pits and barrels, it was found that in some places one third
and one-half in others, were entirely destroyed.
Those poor people were possessed of small cabins, and if they
were obliged to go into the workhouse, they would have to
part with all their furniture, and the parties who had projected
the meeting, therefore, felt it their bounden duty to bring the
matter under the con-ideration of the Executive Government,
aidthe Poor-law Commissioners, in order that some mode
might bedefined for bringing soinerelief, by giving them a supply
of cheap food, or giving them food gratuitously. It appeared,
from accurate statements, that the people in that district were
actually obliged to sub,ist on potatoes not fit to make starch of,
and which, of course, were not lit for the food of man.—( Hear,
hear. ) And yet, after all this, the Right Honourable
Gentleman had said that the reports of the panic in Ire-
land were gross exaggerations.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
And now, for the purpose of ascertaining whether
those reports were a gross exaggeration, let us take other
proofs. The Lord-Lieutenant on Monday last received a de-
putation from the city of Limerick—no small district, com-
prising as it does an immense number of inhabitants. What
was the representation made by that deputation to the Lord-
Lieutenant? I understand that that deputation consisted of
the Mayor of Limerick, Sir David Roche, and other men of
equal respectability and wealth. The Right Hon. Gentleman
will, I think, admit that a more respectable deputation could
not have been composed out of the inhabitants of Limerick.
They state that the destitution of Limerick and the neigh-
bourhood arises from a supply of bad potatoes. The state-
ments were confirmed by Lord Clare, who lived in the neigh-
bourhood, and that Noble Lord had excellent means of ascer-
taining the true state of the people in that district. Now this
is the state of things in the south, and it will certainly be six
months before the new crop is got in.—( Hear, hear. ) And
yet the Right Hon. the Recurder of the City of Dublin states!
that it was all a gross delusion.—( Hear, hear. ) Well, but
•he Right Hon. Gentleman has made, in my opinion, a most
fearful admission. He said this-- that about this time of the
year destitution and dysentery, and in some cases famine, took
place in Ireland. Believing that the Irish people are suffering
from disease and want, arid that the people of this country are
suffering too, but in a smaller degree, he could not reconcile
his mind to provide for the wants of the former by grants of
money from the public purse, while it might be done by adopt-
ing the principle of Adam Smith, and at once reconcile the
trade in corn to the rules of nature and common sense. I say
that is the noble principle—and one which I did not lose sight
of when the state of Ireland was presented to me in all its
awful magnitude—that was the moving power, the earnest and
leading principle of the measure which we are now discussing.
—( Hear. ) But then the Hon. Member for the University cif
Dublin (Mr. Shaw) stated that we have betrayed
our party by the conduct which we have pursued.
I have already stated that I cannot reproach
lion. Gentlemen with entertaining, the opinions which I once
entertained. I bate also expressed an opinion that those who
now oppose our measures, will soon find that we have not be-
trayed them, and that, in the whole course of our proceedings,.
we have had due regard to their interests ; but the lion. Mem-
ber for the University of Dublia has cast our horoscope—he
has said that we are a falling Government. and, sitting behind
us, he kicks us, because he thinks we are falling.—( Loud Op-
position cheers.) lam free to confess that I hope the Hoo.
Gentleman may, under a protective Government, obtain a
satisfactory settlement of the recorder's pension.—( Laughter,
and cries of " Oh, oh.") Then he does not look te any place
or power, but perhaps he may look forward to hold, under a
protective Government, the Irish Secretaryship. I hope Ire-
land will improve under his benign sway.—( Cheers, and "
oh" from the protectionists.) At all events, we are now
aware what actuates his conduct towards us ; but, speaking fur
myself, I may say that his censure sits lightly on rue, and that
I prefer his open hostility to his smouldering resentment. He
referred to the question of the operation of this measure as it
affected tithes, upon which the eloble Lord the Member for
Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck ) had more than once spoken. I am
sorry to trespass on the House, but I wish to refer to this
point. The Hon. Member for Oxford sta'ed, as his opinion,
that this measure was inconsistent with the interest; of tithe-
owners. Nothing could he more accurate than his statement
that tithes varied in quantity, but that they varied in price
With respect to the Tithe Commutation Act, there could
be no doubt that that was a measure greatly in favour of the
landlords of Ireland. 'lnc present corn-laws either materially
affect the price of the first article of; necessity, or they do not
affect it. If they do not affect it, I wish to know why there is
any objection to the proposed alteration in the duty which is
intended in the price of corn ? I do not know on what ground
the corn-laws should be maintained, for, in my opinion, they
tend to paralyse the market—they set class in epposi'ion to
elasa—they destroy the social bonds of the whole community,
and endanger even its very existence. But if they do affect
prices, and cause an artificial value in the cost of provisions,
then, as interfering with the great question of the interests of
the consumer and receiver of wageo I call upon you to do away
with these imposts, and diminish the price of food to the con-
sumer. It cannot be denied that throughout the whole of the
manufacturing districts the importation of goods from distant
parts of the country has progressively increased. Manchester
and Liverpool now draw their suppiy of agricultural produce
from Ireland, Scotland. and the northern provinces of England,
and simultaneously with the increase of import has been
the increased demand. It may, perhaps, be thought
that the value of land in the neighbourhood of
these towns would have diminished, but the reverse is the
fact ; and to substantiate my position, I can refer to the opinion
of Mr. Wilson. In writing on tee corn laws he says—" Of
late years the facilities of steam navigation have enabled the
peasants of Ireland to dispose of the produce of their industry
in the profitable markets of Liverpool, Manchester, and other
places ; and while we find that this has tended to furnish pro-
visions at a cheaper rate to the consumer, it has not at all de-
preciated the valise of land in the neighbourhood of these large
towns." Now, Sir, there is only one other point to which I
am anxious to draw the attention of the House, and that is the
important question of the bearing of the price of corn upon
wages. I have stated on a former occasion my reasons for not
thinking that high prices are conducive to high wages, and low
prices result in low wages. No, the reverse is the case. I
believe that low wages produce high prices, and that high
prices produce low wages.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The
first evidence I will refer to will be the evidence of the Scot-
tith weavers, who say that the only measure they desire is the