The Sun.
London, England, 1846-02-13 00:00:00

THE SUN LON DON, F

diffidulties or distress existed, local remeeies should be
applied, but do not, because local distress exists, disturb
the great laws which regulate a mighty empire; with respect
to the question of famine pervading the whole country,
he thought it was contradicted at once, by the prices
that were obtained at present. There may be fa-
mine in the newspapers, and among her Majesty's Ministers,
but there was no real famine while the present prices of corn
were maintained. Ile would now address himself to the ques-
tion which was immediately before the House, as to the aboli-
tion of the corn-laws. The corn•law! prevented low prices,
to which there was a tendency. If all regulations with regard
to price were tak,n away, there would always be either too
much corn or too little. When there was a good harvest, fo-
reign nations would keep their surplus produce for themselves,
and this nation wou.d go without, and be exposed to all
the disastrous consequences. In good years, on the contrary,
there would be an criorm:Ats influx of foreign corn.—(Hear.)

The surplus which is likely to come under free trade, is ex-
tremely different from what it is under existing circumstances.
Foreign nations at present have a dread at the extreme uncer-
tainty of the sliding-scale, which prevents them from growing
more corn than they can dispose of with a profit, but when
there was no duty at all to frighten them, there would be a
great superfluity.
An Hos:. MEMBER—Say plenty.
Mr. FIEATI-ICOTE continued —Ye=, he was for plenty,
but not for a wasteful. superfluity. He had had the honour,
some time since, to represent the town of Boston in Parlia-
ment, and he found that it was much cheaper to export wheat
from Hamburg to London than it was to bring it from Boston
to London. It was cheaper, because the wheat was conveyed
in foreign ships. He believed that the countries in the north
of Europe would undersell the United States in corn. The
consequence would be that corn would be purchased from
countries who will take nothing but specie in exchange, and
yeur manufactures will be sent to a country who will not re-
ceive them because you will not take their corn. He did think
that when a great experiment I.ke the present was about to be
tried, the farmers and agriculturists ought to know what they
had to expect. He would now read to the House some extracts
from tables of the prices of foreign corn which he had prepared
about four years ago. From the years 1815 to 1816, in Dant-
zic ce en, doting twenty-five years, the average appears to be
28s. per quarter, and during the last seven years of that
period it was 253 per qnarter. During a period of seven con-
secutive years in -Denmark, the price of corn averaged only
18s. per quarter. Now, it might be said that this was because
Denmark was a s I all country, and that low prices would be ob-
tained when there was an abundant e. To this he would reply that
the price of Denmark was the pt ice of all the North. He would
read the prices for the same average of years in different parts.
In Prussia, it was 165.; in Cologne,l6s.; in Brandenburg, 175.;
in Siberia and Pomerania, 17a.; in Dantzic, 225.; at St.
Petersburgh, 225.; and at Riga, 203. per quarter. He would
ask what would be the effect of the introduction of foreign
corn at these prices ? It had been said that the corn-laws of
this country were no protection to prices, but he found that
while the price of corn at Daatzie rose only Bs., the price
during the same year in Eng and was 575. per qaarter. They
had been told, over and over again, that the corn-laws were
of no use. He would refer to the year 1822, during which
period great distress existed in the country. The price
of wheat then was 445. ; in Denmark at tire same
time, it was only 18s. In 1835, when great distress
was also prevalent, the price in England was 395. ; in Den-
mark at 19s. ; so that if the corn-laws had not then beer. in
existence, the country would have been entirely overrun. He
would, in conclusinn, beg of those who took upon themselves
the responsibility of the present measure, also to take upon
themselves the responsibility of its consequences. If he should
succeed in throwing out this Bill, he should think he had
achieved something to be proud of. If, on the other hand, he
should fail, he should feel satisfied that he had done all that
laid in his power in opposing the meaure, to accord with the
wishes of his constituents and the best interests of the country.
Mr. W. MARTIN was of opinion that the time had now
arrived when the interests of the country required that a change
should be made in the corn-laws, and that was the only
justification he could give for abandoning protection.
What regulated the price of corn was the price of the last
bushel which they were compelled to import from abroad. He
believed that free trade would not materially reduce the price
of corn. He did not believe that they would see, on an ave-
rage of ten years, the price of wheat imported from abroad at
less than 50s. per quarter. It might be said that improve-
ments would come by degrees, but he would remind the House
how slowly improvements came upon agriculture. It was not
so with manufactures, as improvements were continually taking
place in them. But in agriculture, if an experiment were
tried, it required a great length of time to test its efficacy.
This was an additional argument in favour of the Government
proposition. Many persons, however, expected that we should
be Inundated with grain from the United States. Why, the
price of wheat in New York, for some years together, was
higher than it was in London. The lowest price he had ever
heard of in the United States was in Michigan, where
he understood that it had been grown as low as 235. a quarter,
and yet it was a notorious fact, that at the time that was the
price of corn in Michigan the price in New York was as high
as in London. On these grounds, he felt little alarm as to the
prJbable influx of corn to this country from the United States.
He thought it was to our interest to place our trade and com-
merce on a healthy footing, whether the United States were
disposed to follow our example or not. He believed, however,
that other rations would be quite ready to follow in our foot-
steps. He believed that, in the step they were taking, they
were laying the foundation of lasting prosperity for their
children. _ _

Several Hon. Members rose, but there were loud calls for
Sir. T. BARING, who said he much regretted that he was
compelled to act in opposition to those whom he had hitherto
followed, and whose patriotism and stern sense of duty he had
always admired. lie believed that the present measure was
unwise and inconsistent. The arguments upon which the
Right lion. Gentleman rested his change of opinion was to
him (Mr. Baring) quite inconclusive.—(Cheers.) Such a
measure as the present required time for full and extensive con.
sideration. If some measure, some temporary. measure, were
required for the alleviation of distress, that was no reason for
the introduction of such a measure as that which was before the
House. If the last change in the tariff had been successful,
that was an argument in favour of a gradual change, and against
such a sweeping measure as the present. He did not
believe that the prosperity of the last three years
had depended solely on the changes in the tariff.
It appeared to him that the prosperity of the country had
arisen from the activity of trade, and from the advantageous
employment of labour, It was important for him to state the
relative connexion between the price of food and the rate of
wages. He believed that wages might be high and the price
of food law, or that the price of food might be high, and the
rate of wages low. There was a large remuneration given for
labour in America, and yet food was cheap there.—( Hear,
hear.) They had a very low rate of remuneration for
hhour in Poland, and provisions were not c'leap there.
That fact proved to him that there was no connexion between
the price of food and the price of labour.—(Hear, hear.) If
the demand for labour decreased with an increasing population,
the result would be that the wages must be regulated accord•
ing to the pt ice of food, and the wages would therefore be
reduced to that sum of money on which a man could exist.
He could not, therefore, see anything in these three years of
prosperity, gratifyisg as they might be—anything to justify a
very grand experiment, which would shake the resources of the
whole agricultural country ; it would open a future of which
none could see the result. No one viewed the calamities that
might happen to Ireland with more regret than he did, and
he knew that the reports of famine and disease in that country
had given great diasatistaction. If that report was founded on
tr.:lh, it would cause an influx of provisions there, and there-
fore they reed not fear for Ireland. A special case requires a
special remedy.—( Hear, hear.) He had undoubtedly heard that
the poor Ii ishman lived solely on his crop of potatoes, and if
that failed, he had no means of existence. In a case like that
he would look to the land cultivators around him for relief;
and by this measure the prosperity of those persons who could
afford him relief would be reduced. He regretted to hear the
statement of the Secretary for the Horne Department—it struck
him both with surprise and sorrow.—( Hear.) If ever there
was a truly patriotic Minister, he believed that no man was more
so than the Right Hon. Baronet, and he would feel it his
duty to do all in his power for Ireland. With regard to the
scarcity in England, it did not seem to call for a great change
in the corn-laws. When the Hon. Member for the City of
London moved for a return of all the corn in the ports of this
nation, there appeared to have been about 430,000 quarters.
It struck him (the Hon. Member for London) that this was a
very imperfect supply for this country. but there was at that
time in the country, a sufficient stock to last it for two or
three months. That fact proved to him (Mr. Baring)
that, although the stock of _ bonded corn might
be small, yet the real supply rested on the stacks and
granaries that were in the country. The 430,000 quarters
that were then in the ports were now increased to a million
quarters, and that. showed that the first cry of alarm drew
ample supplies to this country. It had been proved to him
that the potato crop had failed, Litt he found that the supply of
barley and oats had been sufficiently plentiful. They knew that
the sliding-scale hed failed, because sufficient food could not be

introduced. Speculators saw that no advantage could be
taken of the sliding-scale, and therefore they had to take ad-
vantage of the sliding-scale of Ministerial nerves.—(lm-
men,e cheering.) With regard to the alleged statement
of the exportation of foreign corn into othr countries.
What was the case with regard to Holland and Belgium ?
About 100,000 quarters were sent there, and an ample supply
was still at the disposal of the country. They had been told
last year that there would not be a sound potato by Christmas.
A small quantity had been sent to Holland and Belgium, and
an ample supply could be commanded. The Hon. Baronet at
the head of the Government had told them that in Liverpool
and other places the price of rice had risen, but a reaction had
now taken place, and the price of rice had fallen
25 and even 30 per cent. The public press, or at least that
portion of it that opposed the corn-laws, spoke of the starva-
tion and distress that existed, as connec'ed with them, as it
was their wish to cause a !eeling against them—( Hear, hear)
—and even the Noble Lord who represented the City of Lon-
don had adopted that principle for a short time. From the
public press, down to a private letter, they were met with the
cries of want and distress, but he believed that the greatest
want which existed in the country, and which threatened the
most danger, was the want of a Ministry—(Loud cheers from
the Treasury sida of the House)—and the greatest scarcity was
the scarcity of statesmen who could properly govern the affairs
of the country—( Continued cheering)—and he was not alone
in that opinion. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
Government stated, when he introduced the measure, that the

state of the manufacturing districts required these great
changes in the landed interest. He said, in answer to a ques-
tion which had been put to him, that serious apprehensions
were entertained as, to the sad results which would follow in
those districts in consequence of the deficient harvest, and it
was therefore most advisable to bring in the present measure.
The Right Hon. Baronet also referred to a document which
made a great impression upon his mind, and be (Mr. Baring)
must confess that i had a similar effect upon his own mind.
That document stated that it was probable that we should be
visited h the same calamities as this count: y laboured under
in 1832. The Right lion. Baronet read one extract from that
document, which supported his present views, but he declined
that .portion to which he (Mr. Baring) would now tike the
liberty of calling the attention of the House.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) The document to which he referred was a circular
published by Messrs. Gibson, Ord and Co., eminent merchants
of Manchester, on the 22ti of January last. They stated, in
one of the paragraphs of that document, that although great
anxiety and alarm very justly existed in the country with re-
gard to the failure of the potato crop, yet there were not grounds
for the present very serious excitement. They also stated it
to be their candid opinion that it would be a mo.t injudicious
plan to open the ports to alleviate apprehended famine—(Mi-
nisterial claeers)—because such a step would produce the
greatest disarrangement in the home and foreign markets.—
Such a step, they stated, would be so extravagant and so wild,
that they would certainly protest against it.—( Hear,. hear. )
Their goods, they said, would be rendered unsaleable, and the
trade• of the country would, for a time, be rendered com-
pletely stagnant. The cause of alarm, they believed, had been
must grossly exaggerated, and it was impossible that the de-
ficiency could be so great as anticipated. The surplus corn
that had lain over for the previous years would, in their opi-
nion, nearly make up for the deficiency.—( Hear, hear.) The
Minister had several courses, they said, open to him to alle-
viate the impending distress ; but in their solemn opinion they
believed that the opening of the ports would unquestionably be
so sudden and unexpected a transition, as to some extent to
embarrass the Government of the country.—(Ministerial
cheers.) Those Gentlemen were not in favour of the corn •
laws, but they said that it was their belief that the time had
arrived when a change shouid be made in the laws affecting
the importation of foreign corn.—(Loud Opposition cheers,
and ranch laughter.) Tisoy said that the appreheasiog of the

• present scarcity had prepared the minds of all men for it.—
( Cheers and laualiter.) They believed that provision should
be made to the utmast possible extent for the apprehended
calamity.—(Coetinued Opposition cheers and laughter.) They
said, however, that they did not advocate a total and imme-
diate repeal of the corn-laws, but they were afraid that the
existing alarm in the minds of men might make the present a
proper time for a great reform in those laws. —( Cheers.) They
stated, however, that it would be unjust to the landed interest
to create such a revolution in the agricultural policy of the
Government as might paralyse the energies and in-
dustry of the country. They recommended that a
moderate fixed duty should be imposed in the
first instance, with a progression to an enitre abolition of all
duties.—(Loud laughter and cheers from the Opposition side
of the House.) Those parties, therefore, who, be it remem-
bered, were enemies to the present corn-laws, recommended
not immediate repeal, but a fixed duty. They also stated that
the present alarm about. the failure of the late harvests had been
much exaggerated, and further, they did not believe that
the present circumstances of the country called for such a
step as the opening of the ports by her Majesty's
Government. He (Mr, I3aring) referred to the document
from which he had read these extracts, because' the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government had given the stamp
of his approbation to it by reading extracts from it when he
introduced the present measure. That document showed that
the flight Hon. Baronet would not have been justified in
opening the ports, a course which he bad proposed to his col-
leagues in the Cabinet, but which step they, of course,
deprecated. (Hear, Lear.) For his (Mr. Baring's)
own part, he would say, that in his humble
opinion it would have been most injudicious to have opened
the ports at that period. This country would, in such an
event, have exposed itself to the mercies of foreign powers ; it
would have increased the prosperity of other countries by
putting an end to its own.—( Hear, hear.) Considering the
recent relaxation in the tariff, he confessed that he did not see
how the Right Honourable Baronet was justified
in bringing forward the present proposal ; which was
nothing less than a most sudden and Sweeping mea-
sure.—(Hear, hear.) Perhaps he might be allowed to say a
word or two upon the general measure, particularly in reference
to the strong opinion which had been formerly expressed by the
Bight Hon. Baronet, as to the importance of a great reserve in
the revenue and expenditure. It seemed to him
(Mr. Baring), although he did not pretend to any
accuracy with respect to the finances of the country,
that when the Right He n. Baronet proposed an
augmentation in the expenditure on the charges of the Con-
solidated Fund— being more than half a million—he should re-
collect that a great loss would arise to the revenue by the abo-
lition of the duties on the importation of foreign corn,which must
necessarily be made up by the imposition of taxes, for he
could not expect that the loss would be made up by
the duties to be received on the anticipated increa e
of foreign goods hereafter to be imported into this country in
censeqm• nee of the repeal o: the core-laws. Ile was afraid he
had trespass d too long upon the attrition of the House—
( Cheers)—but he was anxious to say that he was not one of
those who thought that protection ought to be indiscriminately
applied to all articles; he conceived that if protection
was claimed for any article of industry, a case
should he made out to justify its protection. Each
interest in his opinion should be treated according to its
peculiar circumstances. He believed that in every s'ep the
Legislature, in dealing with subjects of this sort, should adopt
the principle which had been long ago laid down by Dr. Adam
Smith, and which doctrine had been quoted by the Noble Lord
the Member for the City of London at some length.
The doctrine to which he ( Mr. Baring) alluded,
was tl at Government, in legislating in matters of trade,
should take care that the abolition of protective duties be made
slowly and by graeations. As regarded the corn-law of 1815,
he ( Mr. Baring) was not one who looked to the present as a
final measure—he could not believe in finality in any matters
of legislation.—( Hear, hear, and laughter. ) Fist still he
thought that there was an understanding that that law had
worked well, and that it would not be changed by its own
authors.—( Hear, hear.) He would not go into the workings
of that law, but he would only say that the Government, in
questions of this sort, should, in the words used by the Right
Honourable Baronet at the head of the Government
the other night, " act most cautiously and delibe-
rately." He hoped, too, that the present measure
of the Government would ultimately prove beneficial to this
country, but he really could not see why Government should
put a check to the confidence of those concerned in the culti-
vation of the land. It was impossible to say what would be
the result of the present measure. There was nobody to in.
form the House what would be the amount of foreign corn
that would be imported into this country under the proposed
measure, and it was also impossible for anybody to protect the
price of corn. —( Hear, hear.) In his humble opinion great
injury would arise from the sudden change ; it would
affect a great interest.—( Hear, hear.) It would shock the
confidence of the agriculturists, and destroy stability in every-
thing connected with the land.—( Hear, hear.) Now, what
were the advantages proposed by this measure? Some said
that it would cheapen the price of bread ; and if it would not,
why bring it forward ?—( Hear, hear.) He believed that
every article of consumption was by increase of consumption
made cheaper. This shad been the case with respect to the
articles of cotton, coffee, tea, and tobacco. The Hon. Baronet
had shown himself that the price of wheat had cheapened pro-
portionably with the increase of consumption and population.
Such, he could show by a document which he then held in
his hand, had been the effect in the Western States of Ame-
rica, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War
also showed that a similar result had followed in Ohio. But
statements on this head were always very uncertain. He,
however, held a document in his hind which was generally
believed to be correct, although, for his own part,
he did not attach much importance to it That
document stated that while the population of that country was
600,000 in 1844, the amount of corn consumed was 3,280,000
quarters; and the amount consumed in 1845 was 6,000,000
quarters, whilst the population was 7,000,000. So that the
tendency in these countries of an increase in the population
was to produce an increased consumption of corn. The forma-
tion of railroads, however, would almost answer the purpose of
the present measure, became those means of transit would con-
siderably decrease the price of corn. If we depended on
foreign supplies of corn, it seemed to him that we should be
liable to a great rise in the price. They would find that cotton
was subject to great fluctuation in price without the opera-
tion of free trade. In 1836 the price of cotton at Liverpool
was 9d., and at the end of March it had risen to lid., and
in the December of that year it was Mid. In the commence-
ment of 1834 it was ;OA., and at the close of that year it was
Bd. The whole of those fluctuations showed that the varia-
tions were equivalent to 70 per cent, It was sometimes said
that the rate of freight was quite suffic'ent to serve as a
guarantee for the protection of corn. Now, what was the
case with regard to freight? Freight might be taken at 9s.
from Odessa, 2s. from Hamburgh, 4s. from the Baltic, and 6s.
from New York to Liverpool, with the addition of two or three
shillings to London. It was Bs. from New Orleans, and a
further charge of 2s. upon the home producer. From Norfolk
the freight was Is. 6d., and Boston his., and the effect was
that corn shipped at Boston would have to pay the same
freight as that shipped from Hamburgh. He had to apologise
to the House for occupying their attention so long—( Cheers)
—but he would solicit the indulgence of the House whilst he
stated, that in his opinion there was a strong feeling on the
part of many connected with trade that a moderate duty was
far preferable to a total abolition of the corn-laws.—( Cheers. )
It was not, however, for him to enter into the truth of such
a position, but he must say that their epinions were deserving
of attention at the present moment.—( Hear, hear.) If
the Government ever intended making a satisfactory
settlement of this matter, now was the time for
doing so. lie should certainly see to tranquillity
in the country, but he had no des:re to see the tranquillity of
content.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) This measure would
produce a great shock in the country, and the people could have
no confidence in those who took part in public affairs. Na-
tional blessings were dearly bought at such a lamentable cost
as that offered by the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Hear, hear.)
Had it been a satisfactory measure he would have had much
pleasure in tendering to the Government his cordial support.
It was not a measure calculated to give that satisfaction to the
country which ought to be looked for in a measure proposed by
the Prime Minister of the Crown. Was it a wise, a politic, or
a statesmanlike thing to send a great interest, like the landed
interest, from that House without any confidence in any Go-
vernment ?—(Hear, hear.) Who could doubt that their interest
would, by the proposed measure, he seriously injured and their
very existence jeopardised.—( Hear' hear.) Humble as he
was, he would venture to say, that while he was in favour of all
fair concessions for the freedom of trade, he still thought it both
nee.iseary and politic to maintain a moderate protection to agri-
culture. —( Cheers.)
I.ord MORPETH said, if the question had been a less im-
portant one he would have hesitaeed, at so short a period after
having resumed his seat in that House, from presenting him-
self again to their notice, especially when he rose to take that
view of the question which, in his judgment, had received
nearly all the illustration of which it is capable— everything
which the most consummate ability, the most industrious re-
search, the greatest amount of official authority, and a pro-
tracted discussion could possibly bring to elucidate the
subject. The question had also received many very illustrious
additions. The Hon. Member who had just sat down he knew
before to be a friend to free trade in the abstract.—
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But he thought, after his speech
of to-night, it would be difficult to discover if, either in
abstract, or in detail, he was favouraby disposed to a general
relaxation of restrictive duties. He has not told us how far he
would go, or where he would stop. lie (Lord Morpeth)
thought that a great interest which had been brought forward
in the debate, like the agricultural interest of the country, if
there was one course more than another which he deprecated,
it was that of being subjected to this constant changing,
gradual system of experiments.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member has told us that the great want in the preceding
autumn was the want of a Minister. Now I think, said the
Noble Lord, that want is most sensibly felt by that great and
important party of which the Hon. Member is so distinguished
an ornament. They have contested every vacant seat in the
country, but even still they seemed to be lament-
ably deficient of a leader and a head.—(No, no, and hear,
hear.) If such is not the case, we shall shortly see, when
they have displayed their full force and numbers, and made the
echo of their own opinions responded to in the country, we
shall then see a successful, stable Government formed—( flear)—
upon the principles of undiminished protect ion to agriculture.
The Hon. Member for Huntingdon ( Mr. Baring) had s'ated,
that the present would be a favourable time to effect a com-
promise on this subject. Ido not know whether he comes
down here as the bearer of any overtures upon the principles of
compromise. I can tell the lion. Member that the opinion,
both in the country and in this House is, that the time for a
compromise is gone by. —( Hear, hear.) A compromise was
once offered—( Hear, hear)—by the party with whose leader
I have the proud satisfaction of acting. The Hon. Member
must not ferget, that at that period the party who now hail
him as their honourable ally, rejected all notion of compromise.
I feel that the best excuse I can have for offering myself to
the attention of the Iloese upon this long di,eussed and wide
stretching question, ulside has, as I have already stated, re-
ceived nearly all the illustration it is capable of, would be to
confine my observations to what is special and peculiar in my
own opportunities that I have bad, and the position which I
he'd with respect to it. Since I last. hail the honour of ad-
dressing this House I have been a traveller on the North
American Continent. I have for two years lived in agricul-
tural districts in that country, and I have lost mot re-
gained the representation of the West Riding of Yorkshire.
And I co cider that the effect of my return as a member
for this House, from so large and populous a district as thet
West Riding af Yorkshire—as one of the most significant and
signal verdicts which could be given—which has been submitted
to the country in the sessions of 1846. But there is only one cir-
cumstance which seems to me to require remark with reference
to the opinion of the large Is ely of eonstituents whom I have the
honour to represent. The question which lire been brought
More them—the projects of the Right H no. Baronet at the
head of her Majesty's Gevernment—concerns, as we all know,
an infinite variety of 8., tides, besides corn and other
provisions.—( Hear, hear.) It meddles almost as much
with manufactures as with agriculture.—(No, no, and hear.)
Hen. Nlembere say " No, no ;" I maintain that it meddles as
much with many leading branches of manufactures as it does
with agriculture. (No, no.) Well, it meddles as much as it
possibly could.—( Hear, hear.) The abolition of protection in
one instance is the same, but in another unlike. The repeal of
the duties on manufacture is immediate, and upon corn is gra-
dual.—( Hear, hear.) I was proceeding to say that the con-
stituents, by whose choice, I have the honour torepresent, corn-
prise amongst them the largest woollen, worsted, and steel ma-
nufacturers in the country. It comprises, also, the largest
linen manufacturers in the kingdom. It has alio
large iron and considerabia cotton msnufacturare. Now, as