The Sun.
London, England, 1846-03-18 00:00:00

POOR LAWS (IRELAND).

On the order of the day being read,
Mr. POLTLErf SCROPE said, perhaps he might be al-
lowed to express a few observations on the Irish poor-laws,
as he had had some experience on the subject. In 1827 the
first provision fur the destitute poor of Ireland was first car-
ried into law. The machinery of the poor-law in Ireland
was nearly similar to what it was in England. They had a
regular set of officers—wardens similar to our relieving offi-
cers, and workhouses were attachod to each union. The sub-

stautial difference between the English and the Irish poor-
law consisted in the giving of in-door relief to
the paupers in England, which was not done in Ireland.
He toped thut the House would come to the opinion that the
first resource of the people of Ireland, after the failure of the
potato crop, was their crop of oats; and if that crop had
been properly managed, it would have been sufficient to pro-
vide against any emergency. He hoped the encouragement
afforded by Government to the importation of American
corn would be beneficial to Ireland, and that enough corn
would be speedily -collected to meet the present necessity.
He had seen with great alarm the enormous extent of
exports of oats and other kinds of corn which had taken
place from Ireland since the failure of the potato
crop. He found on a reference to the returns, which
would be in the recollection of the House,
that up to the sth of February last the imports
of corn into England trom Ireland amounted to 258,000 qrs.
of wheat, 701,000 cwt. of flour, and 82,000 qrs. of barley,
making, on a rough calculation, something worth nearly a
mil.ion of money. Nearly 1,000,000 qrs. of cats had been
exported from Ireland since the failure of the potato crop last
harvest, and that system of exportation was going on still.
We were now in the middle of March, and during the last six
weeks since the production of the returns, the exports had no
doubt been going on iu the same ratio. He hoped, however,
that some means had been taken to store up the corn ex-
ported, so that the people of Ireland might still be enabled to
obtain the food they had been most used to. At
the time of the failure of the potato crop, as if it
had been especially ordained by Providence, there was
a most bountiful harvest of oats. Government had under-
taken to be responsible that the people in Ireland should not
starve, but they would have done better to have left that
responsibility to the local authorities in Ireland. The
House had heard from the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of the Government that he placed great reliance on the
voluntary subscriptions and assistance of the landowners.
That was a very brittle and frail depridence. He (Mr. P.
Scrope) knew that in many districts the landlords certainly
did provide for their tenants; but there was a vast number of
districts where the landlords were receiving their full rent,
and would not return one farthing towards the support of their
tenantry. In the northern parts of Europe the first claim to
the produce of the soil was admitted to be with the people
who were engaged in producing it. He could not for a mo-
ment rely on the voluntary principle trusted to by the Right
Hun. Baronet, for even during the present state of distiess
in Ireland, accounts reached them every day, that the evic-
tion of tenantry was still going on. Their cabins and
houses were levelled, and they themselves turned out to
swell the increasing mass of destitution and misery in the
tow as of Ireland. He had Just seen a statement of a most
harrowing descripion of what had taken place in Roscom-
mon. It stated the people were continually being turned
out from from their houses. He had himself read, no later
than yesterday, that 447 wretched beings had been ex-
pelled from their homes In one case a man was lying ill
from a fever, and his entreaty, that the walls
of his hut should be allowed to stand, in order that he might
have some shelter, was refused. In another cas', a poor
woman, with her child in her arms, was not allowed time to
escape from the but, but as she was running out the beam
fell, and, as lie (Mr. P. Scope) understood, killed her child in
Tier arms. It was to prevent these cases, and to introduce
the principle of compelling the landlords to take some means
of providing for their tenants that he stirred in the matter;
for while there were hundreds of these cases in progress it
was necessary to act. He would refer them to what took
place in hlullingar, where nineteen families were evicted from
their tenures, and in Mallow forty persons ha been expelled,
and prayers had been offered up in their chapel for patience
to enable them to bear their inflictions.

~ ..
Sir J. GRAHAM asked where the lion. Member obtained
Lis information ?

Mr. P. SCROPE said (as we understood) from the public
journals. He could, had he wished, have referred to num-
bers of blue books to prove the misery that existed, but he
did not think such a course necessary. The system had ex-
isted for years, and it was now time to give the people some
refuge and guarantee against starvation. Otherwise they
lard no chance but to increase the number of harrow-
ing eases that had been already brought forward.
That would be the case if boards of guardians were compelled
to maintain their poor, but it was well known that in Ireland

such was not the case. In the report of the Poor-law Com-
missioners for 1845 there was a case of a man who had ap-
plied to the guardians of Carrick-on-Shannon, but was
refused every relief, and the consequence was that the
individual died on the highway, and remained a spectacle
daring the whole of the following day (Sunda) ). The Com-
missioners had very properly reprimanded the guardians on
that account, but they had not provided any adequate remedy
for the evil, and what he (Mr. Scrope) wished to see was a
compulsory power exercised to oblige the guardians to give
relief. He was aware that the workhouse was opened, but all
the workhouses in Ireland were totally inadequate to the
reception of the numerous applicants who would present
themselves for relief. All the workhouses together in Ireland
would not accommodate more than 97,000 persons, and he
thought, therefore, that relief should be applied in the shape
of employment. To further such assistance they might bring
in a Bill for recovering the waste lands, not the bog land,
but the large quantity of waste lands which every
part of Ireland presented for cultivation. The
Members for Ireland migut talk of confiscation arising
from the poor-rate. But what was it? Why, in Ireland
the poor-rate was only 6d. in the pound, while in England it
was 2s.—(No, no.) No; why he had known in some in-
stances the poor-rate to amount to 10s., 125., and even 19s.
in one case. Such being the case, he thought the local
authorities ought to be called upon to assess an equal
rate upon all the inhabitants, and thus raise a fund
for providing that employment which, in this emergency,
was so absolutely necessary. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir
J. Graham) had the other day talked as if some mystery
should be observed in this matter; but he believed that the
institution of a sound poor-law would save the necessity for
any such utcandid proceeding, and would prevent all those
outrages by which the country was at present disgraced. Ile
did net ask for a permanent measure, but he did wish that
the burden should in the first place be thrown on the local
authorities, and then. according to circumstances, to provide
for the future. He believed that, even under the present
pressure of famine and want, the rate required would not
be more than eleyenpence in the pound.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD, in seconding the motion,
said he did not rise fur the purpose of offering the least
obstruction to the measures that had been introduced by her
Majesty's Ministers, but he felt it necessary on that occasion
as being connected with the sub-
d taken upon themselves the re-
providing for the wants and distresses of the
It sub-
ject. ;ffs
re-
sponsibility sr
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to nh sa,
destitute people of Ireland, for which undertaking he gave
them every credit.—(Hear, hear.) They had substantial
proof, however, that the measures introduced by
the Government were not sufficient to meet the
exigencies of the people of that country.—(Hear, hear.)
If they were sufficient, why was it that they had so many
reports laid on the table of that House, all showing that
disease and famine were extending themselves?—(Hear.)
Such, he took for granted, was a proof that the measures pro-
posed were insufficient. For a number of years past the
measures recommended by Committees and Commissions, in
reference to Ireland, had not been adopted by that House;
and his (Mr. Crawford's) opinion was, had they been attended
to and adopted, there would riot exist the misery and distress
that at present prevailed in that country. Therefore, he felt
it was their duty to force on the Government the con-
sideration of those measures that had been suggested.
with a view to remedying those evils.—(Hear, hear.)
The Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of her Ma-
jesty's Government, in introducing his measure, stated that
it would be impossible for him to proceed without the aid of
local support; in fact, that he depended much on voluntary
help. Now, he (Mr. Crawford) did not mean to cast the
slightest imputation on the landlords or gentry of Ireland,
as he was aware that amongst them there were many kind-
hearted and benevolent gentlemen, but he should. at the same
time, say that he had not a doubt that many of them would
not come forward to do their duty by the people; and, there-
fore, it was the Government were called on to make a provi-
sion for such necessity. But he should also observe, if the
landlords were expected to do their duty, they should get
every facility for doing it.--(Hear, hear.) The measures
recommended to that House should be adopted, such as
giving relaxation of entail to tenants for life, as a compensa-
tion for the improvement., made by them.—(Hear. hear.) '
For nearly two years the report of the Landlord and Tenant
Commission had been lying in abeyance, and nothing had
been done; and though Government had introduced Bills
for the amelioration of Ireland. yet he wanted to see a
power given for the general improvement of the eountry.—
( Hear.) The Bill at present before the House only pro-
vided for one description of disease (fever); it made no provi-
sion for the various other diseases mentioned in the reports.
There could be no doubt that the ejectrnents referred to
had also taken place ; and he therefore suggested that the
Government should take up the waste lands, which would
afford scope for the exercise of labour and yield ample re-
muneration to the labouring classes. It was necessary that
the Government should assume a bold front, and take upon
themselves the power of making such important alterations
with regard to the titles of land as the nature of the case re-
quired.--(Hear.) As to relieving the poor of Ireland by the
application of the present system of poor-laws, it was
impossible; and unless the guardians were permitted to ad-
minister out-door relief under the authority of the Commis-
sioners, in such eases as the circumstances required, the diffi-
culties could never be remedied. He should conclude by
seconding the motion of the Hon. Gentleman who preceded
him.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he felt he was labouring under
very many and great disadvantages in replying to the ob-
servations of Hon. Members on the subject of Ireland, in
consequence of the absence of his colleagues who were more
immediately connected with that country, but at the same
time he was anxious to state frankly to the House the opit
nions which he entertained with reference to the important
question which had, he thought, been rather unnecessarily
brought under discussion by the instruction which the Hon.
Member (Mr. P. Serope) had put upon the paper. He at
the same time believed also that it was barely within the
rules of the House that such an instruction should be allowed
upon this question. This measure was exceedingly limited
in its nature, for although important, it was precise in its ob-
jects. It was for the temporary relief of cases of tever
arising from the present unhappy circumstances of Ireland,
and the construction which they must necessarily put on the
resolution of the Hon. Member would raise the question of