The Sun.
London, England, 1846-08-12 00:00:00

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SUN OFFICE, Seven u' Clock.

RAILWAY

COMMITTEES.

(THIS DAY•)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
Room A.
GLASGOW AND BELFAST UNION.
Mr. Wylie, ot Glynn, was the first witness called this
morning, and was examined by Mr. HOPE—His avocations
made him acquainted with the districts through which this
line passed. Considerable quantities of agricultural produce
from these parts were sent to Liverpool and the manufactur-
ing districts; 14,000 bol!s of potatoes were shipped annually
from this port, a considerable portion of which found their
way to Ireland. The vale of Girvan also abounded with coal
and other minerals; nine thousand tons were annually con-
sumed in the town of Girvan, and upwards cf ten thousand
tons were shipped during the same period for Ireland. Con-
siderable quantities of pine-wood were sent to Glasgow and
Ayr, all of which would, he believed, be carried by this rail-
way if constructed. He did not think that the proposed line
would injuriously affect the property of Sir C. Fergusson.
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant MURPHY—The proposed
line would pass at about the distance of a mile from the re-
sidence of Sir C.lFergusson. There were no steamers at
present plying between Girvan and Belfast. He had known
one steamer come up to the port of Girvan; he believed at
about two-thirds tide, but did not know the size of it.
Mr. J. Elder, Custom-house officer, of Girvan, gave
evidence of the favourable position of the port of
that place, and its capabilities of being made a very
safe and commodious harbour, on account of the head-
lant's by whi h it was protected. He thought tint
they Tight get a depth of ten feet at low water
at a very small outlay, and there would be no difficulty in
keeping the harbour, when constructed, clear of sand, because
the bottom was almost entirely formed of clay. It would,
when completed, form one of the best harbours on the coast
of Ayr. There were great quantities of fish about Girvan,
and he believed this railway would not only afford the means
of carrying this fish to Glasgow, but that it would be of great
utility to the people of Girvan.
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant MURPHY—The weavers
of Girvan were very fond of taking trips by sea, but he could
not say whether they were of such a locomotive disposition
as to take trips by land upon this railway if it were con-
structed. No such thing could enter the harbour of Girvan
as one of the large steamers plying between Glasgow and
Liverpool, or Ireland.
Mr. Neilson examined by Mr. HOPE—Was a butcher, and
member of the town-council of Glasgow, and stated that
great quantities of cattle and sheep were fed and fattened in
the neighbourhood of Maypole, which would be carried to
Glasgow by this railway, if constructed.
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant MuRPHY—The whole of
the cattle consumed in Glasgow came from Forfarahire, the
East Lothians, and from Ayrshire.
Mr. J. Whitfield, tenant of the Burgenny coal-fields, and
farmer of Girvan, gave evidence of the extent of the coal-
fields in that district ; they were six miles in length, and
the present yield was 37,000 tons annually, but they were
not worked to anything like their full extent, because at
present they had no means of getting a market for their
supply. If he had such a market opened up he could increase
his supply of coal by 110,000 tons, the greater portion of
which would be shipped for Ireland at the port of Girvan.
The proposed line, if constructed, would effect a saving to
him of 6,0001. a year in the carriage of his coals to Girvan,
which was a distance of five miles from the pit's mouth.
Cross-examined by Sergeant MURPHY—The vessels which
would carry
,the coal to Ireland would bring back meal and
other provisions. The meal that was sent from Ireland was
of an interior quality to that produced in the neighbourhood
of Girvan, which was always sent to Glasgow and other
towns in the north. The inferior article would be consumed
by the people of Girvan themselves.
- Mr. J: Geddes and Mr. Frisbee corroborated the evidence
of the last witness with respect to the quantity of
coal and other minerals in the district through which the line
would pass.
Mr. Marshall, traffic-taker, gave general statistical evi-
dence ot the amount of traffic to be expected upon this line.
Mr. Knight corroborated the evidence of the last witness.
Mr. Blyth, C.E., the engineer to the line was then
called and examined—The total length of the line was
21 miles 5 furlongs. The branch to Maypole was nearly a
mile in length. There were no tunnels upon the line, and
the works presented no ensineering difficulties. The total
estimate for the works was 330,0001. The line would pass
at least at the distance of a mile from the house of Sir C.
Fergusson, and would not be seen from the house, as it
would be completely obscured by the intervening hills.
Mr. Miller, C.E., engineer in chief to the line, was exa-
mined, and corroborated the evidence of Mr. Blyth, the
acting engineer.
Several witnesses were called, who, as land valuers, gave
evidence of the land which would be required for the pur-
poses of the railway, and the value of the same.
This closed the case on behalf of the promoters of the Bill.
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY then called the attention of their
Lordships to the case of Sir C. Fergusson, and contended that
the circumstance of the traffic between Ayr and Girvan, and
the district traversed by this railway, were not of such a
nature as to warrant the outlay of so large a sum as would
be required for this railway in the present depressed state of
the money market, neither were they sufficient to justify the
unwarrantable invasion of the private property of a person
of so great respectability and high character as that
of Sir C. Fergusson. The Learned Counsel also commented
upon the absence of all evidence on the part of the promoters,
with reference to the amount of traffic to be expected from
Ireland, communication with which place had been so
boastingly put forward by them. The port of Girvan would
not afford any facilities for such a traffic even if it were to
exist. With respect to the coal which one of the witnesses
had stated would be sent to Ireland, the Noble Lord
the Chairman of the Committee would bear him
out in the assertion that it was not furnace coal,
such as was produced in this district, that would be required
for consumption in Ireland, but, on the contrary, house coal,
which was produced, as stated by.the same witness, from
coal-fields to the north of Ayr, conveyance for which was al-
ready provided by the ports of Ardrossan and other ports
on the coast, and which clearly would not be brought down
to the inconvenient port of Girvan for shipment to Ireland.
Then, with reference to the residential damage, be contended
that the sinnosities of the surface of the country would not
hide this eye-sore from the honourable proprietor
whom he had the honour to represest. The proposed
line went for four miles through his property,
and there was not the slightest necessity for inflicting this
grievous damage upon him, either on the grounds of local or
through traffic, or as affording the means of communication
with England, the latter of which was amply provided for by
Linea already sanctioned. Upon these grounds, therefore, he
called upon their Lordships to refuse their sanction to the
proposed line.
A table of the; assents, dissents, and neuters, was then
handed in.
No witnesses were called on behalf of Sir C. Fergusson.
The room was ordered tube cleared. Upon our admission,
The CHAIRMAN stated that the Committee were of opinion
that the preamble of the Bill was proved. The Committee
had introduced several verbal amendments in the clauses,
among which was one limiting term for the construction of
the line to five years instead of seven.
In consequence of these amendments the Bill will have to
be sent back to the House of Commons.

NORTH
PANY.— KENT
(THISRAILWAY COM
DAY.)
A special general meeting of the shareholders in this un-
dertaking was held this afternoon, at the London Tavern,
Bisi:opsgate-street, for the purpose of receiving a report from
the directors preparatory to a dissolution of the Company;
Sir Isaac Lionel Goldsmid in the chair.
The report presented a detailed history of the North Kent
battle in a Committee of the House of Commons, which must
be familiar to most readers cf The Sun (a lengthened report
of the struggle having during its continuance appeared in
The Sun from day to day), and it therefore be-
coins unnecessary to give a detailed notice of
this part of the report. The report then went on to
state that the committee, when the South-Eastern Bill,
for making the line from Greenwich to Charlton, reached
the second reading in the Lords, determined, under the then
existing circumstances, to abandon their opposition, in con-
sideration of a sum of money (35,0001.) which the South-
Eastern
Company agreed to pay them. Of this sum, after
deducting the purchase money of some land, included in the
agreement, the property of the chairman, there remained a
balance of '27,500/. for liquidating the debts and liabilities
Of the Company, and, after all claims had been satisfied, the
remainder of the
the are holders.
if there was aolders. A returnnof y,
about 30s. per
should be di-
vided anion„
sh
*bare would' be made immediately en the receipt of the
:volley from the South-Eastern Company.
A PROPRIETOR having moved the adoption of the report,
The CHAIRMAN stated that 58,300 shares had been issued,
every shilling of the deposits on which had all been paid up.
—(Hear, bear.) The directors had put the Company to no
expense, except for a cup of coffee and a rusk.— (A laugh.)
A SHARYHOLDER asked what were the ascertained liabili-
ties of the Company ?
The CHAIRMAN said 75,000/. was demanded of them, but
they expected, upon a minute examination, to reduce that
amount.
A SumusitouyErt—llow much ?
The CHAIRMAN said, of course that would be a matter of
opinion, but he was then only dealing with facts.—(Hear.)
A PROPRIETOR from Dover said the shareholders in his
part of the country were averse to giving up the scheme.
The majority of the meeting, however, thought there had
been a fair stand-up tight between themselves and the F.,outh-
astern Company, and the directors had under such circum-
gtances acted perfectly right in abandoning the opposition.
The report was unanimously agreed to.
In answer to a question,
The CHAIRMAN said the 75,0004 included the money al-
ready paid from the commencement of the Company.
Subsequently it was stated that the expenses would not
exceed 15s. per share.
Thanks were then voted to the Chairman and directors,
and the meeting separated.

THE GENERAL SHIPOWNERS'
SOCIETY.—(THIS DAY.)
The annual general meeting of this Societyfd took place
earn to receive the
f
year,
this day at the Hall of Commerce, in o
report of the Committee for the last the pur-
pose of eleccing five members to till the vacancieso in the
Committee. The chair was taken at one o'clock by George
Frederick Young, Esq.
The SECRETARY ( Mr. N. Win. Symonds), read the report,
from which we extract the following :
" Your committee regret that another year has passed
without any measure being introduced for the long-expected
amendment of the pilotage laws. They have again remon-
strated with the Government on the delay. and disappointed
as they feel that the evils so long complained of; proved, and
ado.iited, still remain unredressed, they will not relax their
iniOrts to obtain a reine/
y.
No step has yet been tatzen on the subject of lighthouses,
to e bleb attention was drawn by your collimate, in their
last report. The state of public business during the present
l'ailicanentary session, may probably account. for the com-
prehensive report of the Select Committee of the House of
-Cenimous thereon, which was presented before the close of
:the last session, having hitherto passed unnoticed.
"As a member of the great community of the empire, the
thep-owner advances no claim to special or peculiar
_privi-
-aegcs: he has nu right to demand, on abstract grounds, ex-
emplon from any burden to which other interestsela7 sub-
jected, or any immunity from which they are emu: if
'they be protected, his fright to protection is co-equal
excluded
with
theirs: if they sustain the pressure of foreign competition,lwoe l:e
mu 'it make up his mind to meet it also. All this,
is t,rtie, only so long as he is permitted freely to ver
pur-
sue like others his own interests in his own way,
unfettered by any restrictions from which other interests
are esti:qt. But if for objects of supposed national
benefit, conferring on him no separate or special advantage,
the State imposes on him burdens and restrictions of a heavily
disqualifying nature, common justice prescribe that
up to tke wint to which the proved disqualification extends,

he should be protected from the competition of those who
are free from his burdens ; and common sense will determine
that unless so protected, he must sink in the struggle of such
competition. Now this -exactly is the case of the British
shipowner. By the registry laws he is restricted to
the use of ships probably the most costly in the world.
By the navigation laws he is compelled to employ ex-
clusively the highest paid and most expensively
fed seamen—those of native birth. By a variety of laws
and regulations deemed by the Legislature essential to some
common interest, or some general duty, be is impeded, taxed,
and prevented from conducting his pursuits in the manner
most conducive to his own interests. The effect of all this
on his penses must be self-evident. It has been estab-
lisheArrgumentatively—statistically—before Cemmittees of
Inquiry—by Parliamentary returns—by proof upon proof, de-
fying refutation. It has been demonstrated by the most con-
clusive of all evidence, that of experience. Your committee have
no desire to revive bygone controversies, but the annual
records of their proceedings bear continual testimony to the
practical effects that have followed in every instance, in
which the experiment has been tried of placing British
shipping in a position of unprotected competition with the
ships of foreign nations. It is consolatory to have observed
that in reply to a cpestion from the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer, Lord John Russell, in a recent discussion on
the sugar duties, declared that 'he did not propose in
any respect to alter the existing navigation laws.'
Still, in the signs of the times. your committee per-
ceive abundant reason for shipowners being prepared.
It would be unworthy of your committee to affect to con-
ceal that which their successive records abundantly testify,
that their own opinions have always been favourable to mo •
derate and just protection to all interests. In the support of
this principle they have been actuated by no selfish desire to
promote class interests at the expense of those of the com-
munity at large, but have been prompted solely by the
conviction, that in its maintenance the interests of all
would be most effectually advanced. If the general
policy of the country is to be changed, they ask not now that
for their own sakes they shall constitute au exception. • But
what they demand, is, even-banded justice. That justice
which by Sir Robert Peel was promised to the agriculturists
on the repeal of the corn-laws, and by Lord John Russell to
the colonists on the alteration of the sugar duties;—namely,
that freedom of production shall at least go hand in hand
with freedom of competition."
Mr. CHAPMAN, M.P., moved the adoption of the report,
and expressed his opinion in favour of protection, and his
gratitude that the Noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) had
taken up the question in such a statesmanlike manner in the
House of Commons. He did net believe that the day was
distant when those principles would prevail if they would
rally round each other.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said that he came there
as the representative of King's Lynn, a great com-
mercial district, and not with the intention of taking
an active part in the proceedings of the day. He
had always believed that the shipping interest of
England was of the greatest moment to the country. He
did not wish to enter into any debateable questions, but he
felt that it was hard to speak of British shipping and not
speak of free trade—(Hear, hear)—which, wherever it hail
been tried, had never failed to injure that interest; and he
could tell them that unless the day arrived (which God
forbid that he should live to see) when they could make
the British sailor live as cheaply as the Norwegians
and Danes, they never could contend on equal
terms with the shipowners of other countries and
of that country. They were told that they ought to be quite
satisfied with the progress that they had made, but what
signified that progress if others exceeded that progress, what
signified it if they run a race if others run faster ?—( Hear,
hear.) And he considered that the navigation laws should
be maintained in their entirety, and they should avow free
trade with those countries that had a competing maritime
force. Where was their strength? was it not in those colo-
nial possessions where they had a monopoly ? In China, where
there was no naval force but their own in India, where such
was also the case? They ought to have different commercial
treaties with different countries—a particular treaty with
China; another with Norway • another with Russia, Prussia,
and Sweden. That was the Norway;
which he maintained.
The course of the shipowners was again to unite—in union
was their sole strength. It was said that Parliament had
decided the question of free trade, but he did not know that
the country had done so, and he, for one, would not give up
the question as lost.—( Hear, hear.) As long as he was in
Parliament he would fight the battle of protection.—(Hear.)
He would conclude by seconding the adoption of the report,
which was carried unanimously.
Lord G. BENTINCK then moved a vote of thanks to the
Chairman. It was only in his absence frem the House of
Commons that he (Lord George Bentinck) advocated so
zealously their interests, for if Mr. Young had been there it
would not have been necessary for him to have said one word.
The resolution having been seconded, was passed unani-
mously.
The Chairman briefly thanked the meeting.