The Sun.
London, England, 1846-05-23 00:00:00

zealously endeavouring to avail himself of the favourable cir-
cumstances which his predecessors had not. In 1835 the great
point he had to consider was, whether he should carry into effect
the provisions and powers of the measure under which his two
predecessors had acted, and he considered the course he had
taken on that occasion was the correct one. He, therefore,
would say that the discovery on the part of the Right Hon.
Gentleman was of a very strange description, if he had lately
discovered that the line of conduct he had pursued for twenty
years was not only inexpedient but unjust. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had availed himself of the Easter recess to make
that discovery, and he (the Marquis of Normanby) under-
stood that this measure was to be postponed till
after the Whitsuntide recess, and he hoped that he
would have also availed himself of that recess, and speedily
come to the conclusion that the measure ought not to be pro-
ceeded with—that he might, in fact, come to the conviction
that unnecessary coercion was net the way to inspire confidence ;
that it was not at the time to which he alluded, that it never
had been, and that it never would be, as long as human na-
tare was what it always had been. But to what would the
argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that unnecessary
coercion was beneficial merely on account of the fear which it
was calculated to inspire—to what conclusion, he would ask,
would that lead ? He would say, that there was no despo-
tism—no autocracy provided ;it was only administered in a
particular manner, which might not be justified upon 'those
grounds which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made use of on
the occasion alluded to. He (the Marquis of Normanby)
would therefore say, that this inference was not justified in
point of fact, and that it was dangerous in its general applica-
tion. And if that was really the sentiment of the Right Hon.
Baronet, they could only rejoice that it was not the sentiment
of a strong Minister, backed by the majority of nearly a hun-
dred. He (the Marqeis of Normanby) felt it necessary to
bring this subject before their Lordships in justification of the
conduct of himself and his party; and he felt it necessary, before
he sat down, to ask the Noble Earl opposite whether
it was the intention of the Government to proceed with this
measure.—( Hear, hear.) He felt certain that it was neither
the desire of their Lordships nor the country, that the Bill
should be held up in its present state of suspoolled animation.
If it was the intention of the Government to proceed with the
measure, let them at once meet that opposition which was
awaiting it elsewhere. He contended that it was trifling with
the country, if they did not at once proceed with or withdraw
this measure; but he believed it was not the intention of the
Government to proceed with it this session. He ought to apo-
logise to their Lordships for having thus occupied their time in
teference to a Bill which ha'dpassed their Lordship? House, but
he was anxious to make the statements which he had made, in
justification of his condUct with reference to Ireland. He
hoped, in conclusion, that the Noble Earl opposite would in-
form their Lordships what was the intention of her Majesty's
Ministers with respect to this measure.—( Hear, hear.)
Earl ST. GERMANS said it was quite unnecessary for the
Noble Marquis to have stated that he was absent from the
House upon the occasion he had alluded to ; for inde-
pendent of the regret which they all felt that the
Noble Marquis should have been absent, he thought
that the Noble Marquis's absence sufficiently accounted
for his not being acquainted with the causes in which this
Bill had originated. In the autumn of last year the crime of
murder, and attempts at murder, had become so lamentably
frequent, that it became absolutely necessary to grant ad.
ditional powers to Government to repress it; and those powers
were not asked for until all the powers then at the disposal of
Government had been employed to meet the evil without suc-
cess. It was with that conviction upon the minds of her Ma-
jesty's Ministers that they had deemed it their duty to advise
her Majesty to call the attention of both Houses c f Parliament
to the state of Ireland, and to adopt some measure whereby to
remedy the evil; and both Houses of the Legislature responded
to that recommendation. But the Noble Marquis had made it
a cause of complaint against her Majesty's Ministers, that they
had not peremptorily called for this measure. Now, he (Earl
St. Germans) would say, that he did not blush at her Ma-
jesty's Ministers having delayed to ask for such a measure,
for he said it was no light matter to ask for a measure
by which to abridge the constitutional right of the subject—
and the Government did hope that when her Majesty had ex-
pressed her abhorrence of such a state of things as then ex-
isted in Ireland, and that the Government were prepared to
adopt such a measure as this, it would have had a good effect
in the disturbed districts ; but he regretted to say it had not
had that effect. He should also say that the Government did
deserve credit for the manner in which they had brought this
Bill forward ; and nothing also could be more creditable than
the conduct of Noble Lords opposite, who evinced no party
feeling whatever during the discussion ; and when a division
did take place (the only one which did occur) not a single
Peer connected with Ireland was to be found in the minority
upon the division. The Bill was sent down to the House of
Commons on the 13th of March, and it was not read a first
time till the lit of May. For this delay the Government
were not responsible. The minority of both Houses pos-
sessed :considerable power—( Hear, hear)—he thought that
it was a power which should be exercised with great discretion
The minority of the House of Commons had thought it right
to obstruct the progress of this Bill not only in that stage, but
they also announced that they would oppose it in all its future
stages. He believed it was the imperative duty of the Govern-
ment to proceed with the Bill in the manner they did. It was
in order to same time, and lass the Bill as soon as possible,
that it was introduced to their Lordships' House first, and sent
down afterwards to the House of Commons. They hoped
to be able, when the public business was less pressing than at
present, to bring the Bill again under the notice of the House.
The Noble Marquis had attempted to turn into derision a pro-
vision in the Bill, urging the inhabitants of disturbed districts
to keep within their houses at particular hours, but the
Noble Marquis, while he was making that attempt, must have
forgotten that a similar provision was introduced and passed in
a Bill which received the legislative sanction during his own
administration.—( Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he had only
to tell the Noble Marquis that the opinions of her Majesty's
Government, upon the subject of this Bill, remained still un-
shaken, and it was therefore their intention to persevere in the
measure. —(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought the Noble Earl
had given a very extraordinary reason why the introduction
of the Bill was postponed. The Noble Earl had said that Go-
vernment was in hopes the declaration in the speech from the
throne upon the subject of crime in Ireland would have had the
effect of suppressing those outrages, which had been of so fre-
quent occurrence in the sister country. and which were so much
deplored on all hands ; but in his (the Marquis of Clanri-
carde's) opinion, the Government bad shown a want of deci-
sion, or want of judgment, in delaying the introduction of this
Bill, after they had received an intimation from Ireland that
such a measure was necessary for the protection of life and pro-
perty in that country.—( Hear, hear.) He had only to repeat,
that he thought it was still the duty of Parliament to use every
consitutional means in their power to suppress outrage and
maintain the liberty of the subject in Ireland.—(Hear. )
After a few words in explanation from the Earl of ST.
GERMANS, which did not reach the gallery,
The Duke of WELLINGTON said the Bill was in prepara-
tion before the session commenced, and Ministers were at the
same time in communication with the Irish Government upon it.
The law officers of the Crown, however, had to settfe the Bill
before it could be introduced into Parliament, and of course
this occupied a good deal of the time after the commencement
of the session.—( Hear.) It was that which prevented the Bill
being introduced earlier than it was.
The LORD CHANCELLOR spoke a few words in confir-
mation of what had fallen from the Noble Duke.

The Earl of WICKLOW said, in his opinion, so unconsti-
tutional a measure as a Coercion Bill ought never to have been
introduced, unless there was an absolute necessity for it, and
certainly not if Government did not intend to press it through
Parliament. The measure, it was said, was brought forward
for the protection of life and property in Ireland, and it was
upon that ground that their Lordships passed it, but the
manner in which it was treated -by Government in the other
House was perfectly disgraceful. They allowed measures of a
financial character to have precedence of it, and from what he
could learn from the public prints of what passed in the other
House, actually agreed that it should not be brought forward
for the second reading until the House allowed corn, and other
financial measures before the House, to be disposed of.—(Hear,
hear.) In his opinion, this was most disgraceful, for delay
would only render the Bill inoperative. Besides, if this pro•
tection for life and property was required by the people of Ire-
land, the Bill ought to be pushed forward at once, and passed
without a moment's delay.—( Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of NORNIANBY said, from the language of
the Queen's speech, it would naturally have been inferred that
there was an absolute necessity for such a Bill, and that it was
the intention of Government to bring it in and press it for-
ward without any delay.—(Hear, hear.) There appeared
however, and in fact there was, a contradiction between such
language and the present course of the Government ; indeed
there was an actual contradiction between this language and
what had fallen from the Noble Earl opposite. The Noble
Earl did not say that the Bill would he proceeded with at
once, but only whenever the state of public business admitted
of i's being proposed to the House of Commons to read the
Bill a second time.—( Hear, hear. )
The Earl of HAD DINGTON said it was quite impossible
that Government could press the measure forward faster than
they had done, for their Lordships would remember that Par-
liament had been placed in such a position with regard to the
Corn Bill, that Government could not, consistently with their
duty to the country, have interposed any measure which
should have the effect of delaying its progress:—( Hear.)
The Duke of RICHMOND did not think with the Noble
Lord that the Government would have aeted improperly if they
had not delayed proceeding with the Bill in consequence of the
threats of a minority of the House. The Government gave
way to threats too much. The Corn Bill was brought forward
in consequence of threats held out to them. The real reason
why the Government did not proceed with the BM was, be-
cause they themselves were in a minority, and could not keep
a House. The Government had but 112 supporters, whereas
the Irish minority spoken of had been 125.
The Earl of HADDINGTON stated that he did not refer
to the numbers who voted for the Bill, he only referred to the
small minority who opposed the Bill.
The Marquis of NORNIANBY would put an end to the
discussion by moving for the returns he had alluded to. At
the same time, it was his opinion that the Bill would not pass
into law.

The motion was then agreed to.
CORN-LAWS.

The Duke of RICHMOND presented a number of peti-
tions, from Cornwall and other places, against the repeal of the
corn-laws.

FATTENING CATTLE.

Lord BEAUAIONT presented a petition from a gentleman
who had made a number -of experiments with malt for the
purpose of fattening cattle, praying their Lordships to take
the excise duty off that article. The petition?r stated that
malt was much better for the purpose than barley.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought the result of his
experiments were contrary to the opinion given before the
Committee.

The Duke of RICHMOND could bring forward a thousand
farmers, whose experience was of more weight than all the
theories of scientific men.

After a short discussion upon the comparative merits of bar-
ley and malt,
The Duke of RICHMOND stated that he knew a farmer,
residing close by the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, who was
himself a great farmer, who considered that malt was prefer-
able to barley.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that perhaps the
individual referred to by the Noble Duke argued only by
analogy, he judged perhaps from the effects of malt on his own
person.
Several other petitions were then presented, and their Lord-
ships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 22.
The SPEAKER took the chair at Four o'clock.

REPORTS.
The following reports were brought up and agreed to, and
the Bills ordered to be engrossed, viz.:—Hamilton New Gas,
Aston Rates, Gallon Inclosure, A►rdrie Police, Caledonian In-
surance Company, Aylesbury and Thames Junction Railway,
Midland, Barnsley, Sheffield, Dewsbury, and Bradford Rail-
way, York Improvement, Harrogate Waterworks, London and
South-Western Railway (Farnham and Alton branch), Read_
ing, Guildford, and Reigate Railway.
MARQUIS OF DONEGAL'S ESTATE BILL.
This Bill was read a second time and ordered to be
committed.